IRC log for #brlcad on 20090101

00:40.12brlcadHappy New Year!
00:41.05DanielFalckHappy new year to you too brlcad! thanks for the code!
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03:52.20yukonbob_hello, cadheads
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15:12.57mafmhi
15:35.02brlcadhowdy
15:39.15Axman6whoot, just got someone interested in trying out brl-cad :)
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15:52.21brlcadAxman6: heh, cool
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20:35.30Scott_hi is anyone here?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090102

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090102

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03:09.47jonoredtries point_t *newpt;
03:10.11jonored...I really need to fix that click glitch.
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03:13.17jonoredThat said, any guidance on working out how to get the curvature of the intersection of a plane and a surface from the two curvature values and the vector? I keep thining that it's something simple that I'm just not getting..
03:16.58pacman87jonored: so you want the curvature of the path?
03:17.54jonored*Nod*.
03:17.56brlcadjonored: click glitch?
03:19.06jonored(When I switch VTs back to the one with X up in it I get a middle click. I'm not sure why. This becomes inconvenient when it pastes random fragments of code into windows.)
03:19.39brlcadheh, that's odd
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05:00.17jonoredOh, finally found it somewhere, okay. Woot.
05:00.29pacman87jonored: link? i'm curious
05:03.09jonoredpacman87: http://mrl.nyu.edu/~dzorin/geom04/lectures/lect08.pdf - second page, right there, k=k_1 (cos a)^2 + k_2 (sin a)^2
05:03.37pacman87thanks :)
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06:01.35jonoredAlternately, I could simply be forgetting critical parts of what I'm trying to do and the applicability of that formula...
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090103

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090103

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16:58.05mafmhi
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090104

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090104

00:17.21*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177871607.dsl.bell.ca)
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04:01.44IriX64http://rafb.net/p/6LDPvm30.html   <---- this happens at install time, any way around it?
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07:29.51Sk3letrOnhey bitch got a problem with me?
07:30.02brlcadSk3letrOn: in that channel with your language, absolutely
07:30.14brlcadhere I'll just as well tell you to go fuck yourself if you can't behave
07:30.21Sk3letrOnhahaha
07:30.26Sk3letrOnbe nice to me
07:30.28Sk3letrOnok?
07:30.40brlcadthe way you're acting, I have no reason to
07:30.46brlcadyou have to earn respect
07:30.46Sk3letrOnyes! I insist
07:30.58Sk3letrOnI was reading over some logs
07:30.59brlcadwhich you don't get by acting like a presumptuous ass
07:31.00Sk3letrOnI found something
07:31.04Sk3letrOnI need to talk to blast
07:31.12brlcadyou should have thought about that beforehand
07:31.22Sk3letrOnbut he won't listen to me
07:31.32brlcadfigure that one out
07:31.38brlcadwonder why
07:31.52Sk3letrOnok I will I'll go ahead and use what I found then maybe you wil respect me
07:31.56Sk3letrOn:D
07:31.57Sk3letrOnbye
07:31.58brlcadnot likely
07:32.06brlcadthere are plenty of ways to be an ass
07:36.08Ralithhehe.
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09:40.04*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.0 is now posted (20081108)
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16:55.03brlcadhowdy mafm
16:55.13brlcadoh, missed madant
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19:05.48kanzure_Hi all. Someone's been mentioning to me how CSG is ancient/old/out-of-date, but I was wondering what the latest modeling kernels are doing if not CGS.
19:06.14kanzure_CSG*
19:07.12kanzure_b-rep looks to be compatible.
19:14.03brlcadkanzure_: that's a much longer discussion
19:14.58brlcadthat perspective by itself is rather naive/ignorant of the history of CAD development too and how CSG with implicits relate to other modeling forms
19:15.54brlcadCSG by itself is just a geometric operation, which pretty much every major CAD system supports to varying degrees of usefulness
19:16.20pooliob-rep is in the works :)
19:16.28brlcadthe deeper issue is the underlying geometry, whether it is represented by an explicit boundary representation or implicit mathematical forms
19:16.53pooliohowdy brlcad, how were the holidays?
19:16.58brlcadthe two aren't exclusive either, you can at least go from implicit to explicit (just not easily the other way around)
19:17.03brlcadpoolio: they are/were great :)
19:17.08brlcadmerry christmas
19:17.09poolioah cool, still off?
19:17.12brlcadsorta
19:17.15poolioand happy new year
19:18.25brlcadlikewise!
19:19.15poolioyou watching the game or are you not a football fan?
19:19.22brlcadkanzure_: most of the modern best practices focus around parametric modeling and feature-based editing operations (which have little to do with the csg vs brep vs implicit vs explicit debate), they're higher-level constructs
19:21.51brlcadpoolio: oh, I'd just tuned it in a few minutes ago
19:22.12brlcadcould hear the neighbors cheering, the entire neighborhood is big fandom
19:22.22brlcadwatching it in HD is pretty sweet
19:23.17poolioyeah, it makes watching sports so much nicer. It's a high stakes game for me - my roommate is from miami :)
19:23.37brlcadhah
19:23.46brlcadso you're rubbing it in now, I take it ;)
19:24.22brlcadlooks like it'll be 13-3 or 17-3 here in a couple mins :)
19:27.08kanzure_brlcad: I see.
19:27.46brlcadit is a pretty true statement that we lack several of the higher-level constructs
19:27.54kanzure_For geometrical constriants (for parametrics), it would seem to me just something that an extra script could do to check and update some numbers in an mged script or something. This is my simple understand though, there's better stuff that could be done.
19:28.10brlcadthat's true
19:28.34brlcadthat's also why more of our focus is on ensuring that the underpinnings are solid, guarantees of solidity and numerics, etc
19:29.19brlcadwe are working on bidirectional BREP, big priority (as that really makes arbitrary parametric editing easier as well as tessellation)
19:29.41brlcadbut that's still pretty independent of having parametric editing and feature-based edits
19:30.23brlcadmost feature-based edits could similarly be represented as a series of CSG operations (actually *considerably* more efficient than via a BREP approach)
19:31.20brlcadsince actions like "add a hole on this face with this diameter and this bevel" amount to a CSG subtraction of the hole shape
19:33.32kanzure_hrm, this same person mentions "free-cad" as looking like something that will "get there sooner than BRLCAD" (but to where? he makes a comparison to Solidworks, hrm)
19:33.38kanzure_checks out free-cad on sourceforge
19:33.49brlcadhehe
19:33.50kanzure_http://freecad.juergen-riegel.net/Docu/
19:34.01brlcadI wish them the best
19:34.19brlcadthat's an even more exceptionally naive statement
19:34.54kanzure_ah, free-cad is a feature-based parametric modeler
19:36.09brlcadwhat most people don't realize is the magnitude of effort required to make a production-quality CAD system -- it's not like making a game or web browser or office application
19:36.40kanzure_bah, making a web browser isn't easy either
19:36.48kanzure_points to the short list of available layout engines
19:37.21brlcadmost of the big commercial CAD systems have *thousands* of staff-years of effort invested (some have tens of thousands)
19:37.30kanzure_WebKit, Gecko, KHTML, gtkHTML. (Then there's Trident and whatever Opera uses, which are closed source)
19:38.03louipcif someone gets there sooner than later I'd be happy :D
19:38.08louipcbut I'd put my money on brl-cad
19:38.34brlcadlouipc: I'd be happy if folks just collaborated more -- there are lots of one/two-man efforts
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19:38.42kanzure_nods
19:38.50kanzure_that was somewhat the point of the open manufacturing group when it started
19:39.02brlcadthey get something up on a gui quickly and get a few screenshots, people are impressed, but then realize that it's absolutely useless for production use
19:39.04kanzure_trying to pick up where some of the other mailing lists died, like the open-cad-format list, linux-cad list, etc.
19:39.18louipchehe yep
19:39.34kanzure_there's also avocad-ro.
19:40.09louipcbut only so much can come from hobbyists and such, industry really needs to see open source as a real possible alternative
19:40.10brlcadBRL-CAD has about 400 staff-years effort invested, which is about 300 more than the next group .. and we're still pretty far away from hitting a usability mark
19:40.40brlcadkanzure_: avocado is even less along than freecad (but the guy is at least much better on his marketing)
19:41.38kanzure_so while we're on this topic, I mentioned the open manufacturing group :)
19:41.40brlcadthere's a couple other efforts that are even more impressive proof-of-concepts, but still -- they're years away from any level of usability
19:41.58kanzure_http://openmanufacturing.net/ and http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing
19:42.23kanzure_there are too many islands of efforts, but I don't have a solution really
19:42.27brlcad~nibm
19:42.28iboti heard nibm is "Not Implemented By Me" - a syndrome often suffered by developers that tend to reinvent the wheel or fork development for no reason other than not being able, willing, or interested in working with others, or for being able to put their name on it.
19:42.37brlcad~nih
19:42.38ibot[nih] \"Not Invented Here\" - a syndrome often suffered by developers and companies who tend to reinvent the wheel for no reason other than being able to put their name on it.
19:42.41louipcheh I googled "open manufacturing group" and I didn't get anything on the first page
19:43.28brlcadkanzure_: that's why most of my interest over the past year has been for getting involved more in community and collaborative efforts
19:43.37kanzure_louipc: I google 'open manufacturing' without quotes and get a good hit on the first page.
19:44.05louipchaha that's glx gears
19:44.09kanzure_yes :)
19:44.10brlcadeven our team, which has major funded backing by the u.s. gov't, won't keep pace with the industry expectations without getting a lot more people involved
19:44.14kanzure_I apologize upfront for that picture, btw.
19:44.21kanzure_it was late one night .. I wasn't thinking straight ..
19:44.41brlcadkanzure_: hehe
19:44.45louipcoh openi see
19:44.50kanzure_?
19:45.13louipcnvm
19:45.43kanzure_brlcad: another issue is probably the general misunderstanding of what's going on
19:45.59kanzure_for instance, this person that I've been writing a lengthy email to, might have a few confusions about parametric modelers, brep, etc.,
19:46.13kanzure_it wouldn't be the first time somebody had their "history of software" kinda all wrong ;)
19:46.43parodyoflanguageHey all, I never introduced myself.  Right now I'm just reading through the manual and just trying to get up and running with BRL-CAD.  I took AutoCAD in high school, but I don't have the money for that program and I've come to appreciate the free software philosophy.
19:46.56louipckanzure_: trying to sell brl-cad?
19:47.03parodyoflanguageHope you don't mind me lurking :)
19:47.19louipcparodyoflanguage: cheers :D
19:47.30kanzure_louipc: sort of. :) I am working [with others] on a 'hardware packaging format' (like .deb)
19:47.41louipccool
19:47.44kanzure_so I recommended dot g instead of dot STL
19:47.54kanzure_as the CAD-data internal to the package
19:48.20kanzure_IGES/STEP might win out in the end. Don't know.
19:48.22louipcwell, different applications might call for different formats
19:48.26brlcadkanzure_: maybe of interest, this has a really high-level overview of the longer-term project priorities: http://brlcad.org/BRL-CAD_Priorities.png
19:48.47kanzure_thanks
19:49.46kanzure_louipc: that's true, but the "just have a lot of small tools to work with everything" mindset is good IMHO
19:49.54kanzure_and if you can package all of those tools together, even better.
19:50.08parodyoflanguageYou guys are still funded by the military? Wow.
19:50.10louipcyou could do it like video haha
19:50.22louipcyour packaging format will be the container
19:50.46louipcand the geometry format may differ
19:51.03brlcadkanzure_: also, reference for your friend that explains the industry we are most closely concerned with (from the leading researching in this domain), http://www.gvu.gatech.edu/~jarek/papers/SolidModelingWebster.pdf
19:51.25brlcadlouipc: sell brl-cad?  that's not a goal of mine
19:51.37kanzure_louipc: yes, I just released a 250 MB zip file with Creative Commons-licensed clips for the construction of a video, last night
19:51.39brlcadparodyoflanguage: howdy and welcome!
19:51.45brlcadlurk as much as you like
19:52.13parodyoflanguageThanks :)
19:52.31kanzure_brlcad: out of curiosity, where can I find the architecture notes for the new kernel mentioned in that PNG?
19:52.39louipcbrlcad: no, kanzure_ is trying to sell brl-cad, sell as in promote.
19:52.41brlcadkanzure_: I wouldn't recommend IGES -- STEP is a lot harder but more familiar (and something I'd be happy to collaborate one)
19:52.55brlcadour .g format is more flexible and much higher-performing in general
19:54.52brlcadparodyoflanguage: yep, still funded .. substantial investment -- it's the primary code used for all vulnerability/lethality assessments performed by the DoD (on just about all military assets)
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19:56.21parodyoflanguagebrlcad: Wow. I somehow thought that such software would be classified :)
19:56.21brlcadkanzure_: some of the docs for it are on the wiki on the website
19:56.21brlcadlouipc: ah, misunderstood -- gotya ;)
19:56.21parodyoflanguagebrlcad: Just to ask, is there any sort of integration with finite element analysis or plans for such integration?
19:56.21brlcadparodyoflanguage: the code that performs the analysis is not public
19:56.21brlcadbrl-cad is just the geometry processing portion providing geometric representation and geometry analysis services (shotlining)
19:57.03parodyoflanguageOkay.  So the FEM part is classified.
19:57.12brlcadthere is no direct integration with FEA services (or plans for that) but we can certainly import/export a FEM and provide facilities for managing the geometry
19:57.40kanzure_parodyoflanguage: see OpenFOAM, OpenFlower, etc.
19:57.40brlcadthe V/L analysis are not FEA
19:57.42parodyoflanguageOkay, that's what I wanted to know.  Thanks :)
19:58.42brlcadthere is a BRL-CAD to Cubit exporter that makes it pretty easy to take any .g and end up with a FEM suitable for a given FEA
19:58.51brlcadbut you have to have the (dirt cheap) cubit license to make it work
19:59.30DanielFalckbrlcad: does the Cubit license give you other export formats too?
19:59.54DanielFalckacis?
20:01.48brlcadCubit hooks into acis (and is the reason why they have to charge a license fee)
20:02.03brlcadso once in Cubit, you can export to just about anything that acis supports
20:02.34DanielFalckok
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090105

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090105

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01:09.07Maloeranlooks around, the channel has grown so fast
01:09.11MaloeranAre you around, Erik?
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02:05.22MaloeranHey Hal
02:05.32Rangarhehe hey Mal :)
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04:31.00IriX64http://rafb.net/p/dQVfFi89.html   <--- this recurs
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06:36.44brlcadhowdy Maloeran
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10:45.23mafmhi
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11:54.57d-lomornin all.
12:15.47mafmhi d-lo
12:16.08d-lohow goes the vacation?
12:17.37mafmalready finished, started working this friday
12:18.12mafmvacations always finish too soon :)
12:18.16mafmwhat about you?
12:18.19d-loexcellent.  I can't remember if you had told me if you made a choice...I think you had two to pick from?
12:21.48d-loyeah, vacations and holidays are always too short :/
12:23.07mafm:)
12:23.19mafmI did, I picked the one of the univ at the moment
12:23.26d-loI was able to disconnect 110% from work.... now time to reconnect.  yelch.
12:23.28mafmI'm travelling to Madrid tomorrow to sign the contract
12:23.37d-loExcellent!
12:24.17mafmhttps://adenu.ia.uned.es/web/
12:24.38mafma bit different from my preferred style, but well
12:25.01mafmdisconnecting 110% rules!
12:25.21mafmhaven't done that for a lot of time, since I often take vacations to work in another things :|
12:27.10d-lohrm, strange.  that url has a bad security cert.  :/
12:28.02d-lolol, isn't that amuzing how the term 'vacation' is relative?  I, too, 'vacationed' from one work only to pick up another :)
13:18.29mafmyes
13:18.42mafmI'm still working for the lab officially until 12th...
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13:19.28mafmbut usually took vacations in the last few years for preparing exams, gsoc or things like that
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13:54.33mafm_I have to prepare the travel, see you
14:26.49CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33440 10/rt^3/trunk/src/GeometryService/NetMsg.cxx: Adding ByteBag to repository
14:33.31CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33441 10/rt^3/trunk/src/superceded_GS/cpp/BoostThreads/: Removal of old BoostThread libs. New Boost installation is in /include.
14:34.50CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33442 10/rt^3/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Adding ByteBag to repository
14:35.59d-loirc strangeness... connection 'froze'  :/
14:51.22CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33443 10/rt^3/trunk/include/boost/ (118 files): Adding Boost libraries to repository
14:59.55CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33444 10/rt^3/trunk/include/boost/archive/ (117 files in 4 dirs): Adding Boost libraries to repository
15:00.58CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33445 10/rt^3/trunk/src/superceded_GS/java/ (stractNet/docs/ stractThread/docs/): Removed Superceded documentation.
15:02.24CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33446 10/rt^3/trunk/include/boost/ (80 files in 7 dirs): Adding Boost libraries to repository
15:04.27CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33447 10/rt^3/trunk/include/boost/ (213 files in 10 dirs): Adding Boost libraries to repository
15:21.05CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33448 10/rt^3/trunk/include/boost/ (1110 files in 46 dirs): Adding Boost libraries to repository
15:26.20CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33449 10/rt^3/trunk/include/boost/ (409 files in 49 dirs): Adding Boost libraries to repository
15:29.56CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33450 10/rt^3/trunk/include/boost/ (135 files in 7 dirs): Adding Boost libraries to repository
15:31.13CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33451 10/rt^3/trunk/include/boost/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Adding Boost libraries to repository
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16:30.26CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33452 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (Makefile.am anal.c setup.c): Mods to use libged's ged_analyze.
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20:15.38IriX64http://rafb.net/p/0wWJui34.html  <---- is this begnin ?
20:15.51IriX64and Happy new year :)
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23:48.33IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/goofinground.png   <--svn as of 4pm eastern
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090106

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090106

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10:42.48CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33453 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/bitv.c): bu_bitv_shift should return an unsigned int since << shifting negative is undefined.
10:50.51CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33454 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/bottest.c: close the outfp to no leak, missing semis, and ws
10:59.45CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33455 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/argv.c: minor lint cleanup
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11:33.07CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33456 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/association.c: ws
11:34.55CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33457 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 5 dirs): remove association.c and bu_association() completely since it looks like it was an idea that was never put to use. there's not any evidence that anything actually uses it so give it the axe.
11:38.37d-loyawns
11:38.42d-loMernin'
11:47.21CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33458 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: remove massive code block duplicated in labels.c for dmo_labelPrimitive() and dmo_drawLabels_cmd(). looks like the newer stuff is in labels.c now.
12:04.37CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33459 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/tire.c: plug a slew of memory leaks. need to call bu_vls_free() if you call bu_vls_init().
12:06.21CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33460 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/tire.c: remove dead comment code
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12:59.28CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33461 10/rt^3/trunk/ (7 files in 6 dirs): Added some stream solutions for serializing/deserializing. Integrated them into build system. Will be built into libge.
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13:05.32CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33462 10/rt^3/trunk/ (44 files in 6 dirs): Added some stream solutions for serializing/deserializing. Integrated them into build system. Will be built into libge.
13:11.32CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33463 10/rt^3/trunk/include/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Cleaning up Build system a tad. Removed a few Makefile.am's
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16:41.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33464 10/rt^3/trunk/ (22 files in 4 dirs): Work to conform code to c99 standard. Use of fixed-width integers throughout iBME code.
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18:02.40CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33465 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.c: there's no comment indicating that there's a reason we would need to clone the dbi twice. remove the hack/bug/mistake.
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18:09.08CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33466 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/axes.c: need string.h for memset()
18:20.39CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33467 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (cmd.c cmd.h): hm, pondering. there are a lot of these unconsties.
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18:40.22brlcadhowdy madant
19:07.54d-loenjoying vacation brlcad?
19:09.00brlcadd-lo: I did, but I'm not on vacation now -- I apparently have a cold
19:09.22d-lobah, bummer.  Painful cold or just annoying?
19:10.53brlcadjust annoying
19:11.18d-lowell I suppose thats the better of the two :/
19:11.20starseekerdriving too fast with the window down? ;-)
19:11.41starseekersaw that picture of the new car
19:11.44d-lodid you buy yourself a lotus for xmas?
19:12.02d-loor did you just upgrade the lumina?
19:12.05d-lo:)
19:13.38CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33468 10/rt^3/trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): added serialization support for float and doubles to classess that implement DataInput and DataOutput.
19:15.47d-loProfessional type question (to anyone): which is a 'better' way to access the bits of any given data type?
19:16.01d-loa) use bitshifting (aka << and >>)
19:16.23d-loor b) use pointers and loops?
19:17.16d-loare there any pros/cons that make one use better?  is it situational?  I understand the logic behind both approaches, I just need the 'experienced' advice.
19:18.19brlcadusually bitshifting but it depends what you're doing
19:18.50brlcadbitshifts and bitmasks are pretty straightforward
19:18.54d-loserialization
19:19.37d-loso the question, now is, 'Why choose bitshifting over pointers?"
19:20.47brlcadit still matters what you're doing, serializing what and what the constraints are
19:21.04brlcadhow would you use a pointer to access bits?
19:21.50d-losay I want to convert a float to a char[4]:
19:22.15d-lochar* c = (char* ) &myFloat
19:23.05brlcadthat's not at the bit-level, that's a byte array
19:23.19brlcadand that'd only be valid/useful for IEEE floats
19:23.29d-lothen go into a 4 pass loop, incrementing the pointer each time.  each pass of the loop gets a new byte.
19:23.38brlcad(which plenty of modern systems and compiler switches will make something non-IEEE float)
19:23.45d-loright, but if you bitshift by increments of 8, its accomplishes the same thing.
19:24.08brlcadah, heh -- so you don't actually need to access individual bits
19:24.20brlcadyou're just getting at byte values
19:24.32d-loI guess i didn't mention that did I :)
19:24.42brlcadto the contrary, you said access the bits ;)
19:25.00d-loslaps his head.
19:25.27d-lookay, restate above question, but use bytes instead.
19:26.18d-loIf I am mandating c99 compliance, is there still an issue with running into non IEEE floats/doubles?
19:27.05brlcadfor breaking something up into byte values, that's where htond/htonf/htonl/htons come from, so you get consistent access
19:27.10brlcadyes
19:27.16brlcadc99 doesn't require ieee floats
19:27.46brlcadit's an independent complaince that has more to do with hardware and compiler optimization options
19:28.31d-loeasy enough fix :)  I will just put it in the docs:  No non-IEEE floats.  Done.  :D
19:29.25brlcadthose are the kinds of bugs that usually take weeks to isolate
19:29.31d-loHrm, perhaps I am just thick, but I don't see how  htond/htonf/htonl/htons will help me convert from byte array's to various data types...
19:29.39brlcadbecause it will work just fine in one environment
19:30.50d-loI thought that htond/htonf/htonl/htons where just int to int converters designed to re-arrange bytes, not break them down or build them up for you.
19:31.30d-loso is there *any* way to completely mandate IEEE floats?
19:35.22brlcadhtonf/htond are specifically for floating point types, turns a float into a 4-byte array and a double into an 8-byte array
19:35.52brlcadpasses through a cast and then relies on configure and run-time tests to determine the format for proper packing/unpacking
19:37.09d-looh duh, those two are in the brlcad source and not part of the c/c++ stdlib.... right?
19:37.35brlcadand no, at least not realiably.  I actually think there's an assumption in the code now that has been causing a superbly obscure dbio bug because of non ieee floating point formats getting serialized/deserialized incorrectly
19:38.04brlcadright, c99 wouldn't touch the floating point types because of the IEEE issues
19:39.31brlcaddoubles are really the tricky ones
19:39.58d-loits only 4 more bits :)
19:39.59brlcadsince many hardware (particularly older hardware, but even some modern) will do all sorts of encoding tricks to make doubles perform fast
19:40.08brlcad4 more bytes :)
19:40.16d-loslaps his knee
19:40.23d-lothis could be a funny ongoing joke.
19:41.20d-lowell, thats just it.... how much 'older' hardware are we looking to support?  My opinion is little to none.
19:42.42brlcadby the way, if you actually end up needing a bit vector, bu_bitv's are the way to go for bit buffers less than or equal to 32 bits
19:43.13brlcadit is little to none for the new stuff, but like I said -- it's still one modern hardware
19:43.55brlcadMany compilers (including GCC and Visual Studio) can break IEEE just by turning on a basic level of optimization
19:44.41brlcadthen you end up with a maze of compilers and compiler switches to try to accommodate, it gets really messy and complicated pretty quickly
19:45.32d-loThats easy to fix. :D  Make them have to run on RHEL4/64 on x86 using gcc :)
19:46.13d-lomuwahahaha
19:47.36brlcadeven not compiling on older hardware, we should still compile cleanly with as wide a variety of modern environments as possible to keep the maintenance burden low and longevity high
19:48.08brlcadstill, in this case, it should be pretty trivial
19:48.19brlcadyou run the numbers through the function, have your byte array, pack it
19:48.47brlcadit's less work than even if you could assume IEEE floats and could just cast
19:52.44d-lohow many 'older' systems to htonf and htond support?  (also are there ntohf and ntohd?)
19:54.05brlcadyes, they'd be pretty useless without the reverse :)
19:54.43brlcadhton[fd] go back supporting systems about 15 years or so old
19:54.44d-loHey now, I have been burned badly before by not asking the 'stupid' questions ;)
20:01.39brlcadstarseeker: any idea why bob changed the args for tire to require the top-level name?
20:05.59starseekernot really
20:06.17starseekerprobably didn't want to deal with the case of looking for a pre-existing "tire" in the db
20:06.57brlcadactually, it does a check for existing name
20:07.22starseekerin that case, no clue
20:07.34starseekerwant me to ask?
20:09.21CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33469 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/tire.c: document the -w option, sort the args by their help order
20:15.36brlcadstarseeker: nah, I think it was just a cop-out
20:22.54CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33470 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/tire.c: make the top-level object name optional since it's not required if the user specified -a to autogenerate. also readd the -n option to specify the name via an option.
20:25.07CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33471 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (Makefile.am tire.c):
20:25.08CIA-31BRL-CAD: make tire use the libged ged_tire() interface instead of replicating nearly all
20:25.08CIA-31BRL-CAD: of the code identically. looks like the libged interface actually works too.
20:25.08CIA-31BRL-CAD: one side-effect is that we have to create the file before arguments are
20:25.09CIA-31BRL-CAD: validated (so we have to delete the file on failure). begs for some sort of
20:25.11CIA-31BRL-CAD: callback or more intelligent options.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090107

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090107

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00:52.32CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33472 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ (5 files): removed the unimplemented files until they have some meat to them. the contents look like a derivative of TorusEditFrame but without logic. removed SketchEditFrame.tcl PipeEditFrame.tcl and BotEditFrame.tcl
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04:01.26yukonbobhello, cadheads
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06:35.25CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33473 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/patch/patch-g.c: ws cleanup and make the two massive duplicate plate sections match exactly
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06:50.05CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33474 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/patch/patch-g.c: nice refactoring, eliminate the 175+ lines of duplication on two identical sections. added a process_plate_cylin() routine that combines them into one.
06:55.21CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33475 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/patch/patch-g.c: quell verbose compilation warnings, fix a couple print formatting bugs in the process
06:59.26CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33476 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/patch/patch-g.h: ws
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11:54.24d-loMornin all.
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15:19.51CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33477 10/rt^3/trunk/include/ (59 files in 8 dirs): Removed some namespacing, it served no purpose. WS, Header and footer formatting.
15:39.27starseekerchuckles at the tire.c file in the proc-db directory - surely the first time a proc-db's core logic consists entirely of calling a function in a library :-)
15:42.33CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33478 10/rt^3/trunk/ (7 files in 2 dirs): gave some flesh to the core interface: the combination object (at least for testing purpose)
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15:55.12starseekerbrlcad:  I just tried  mged -c tire.g tire -d 395/85R20 -g 40 -p 2 -u 70 tire
15:55.23starseekergot a file named tire.g and the correct tire inside of it
15:55.56starseekermaybe it would make sense to retire the proc-db command?
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16:05.51brlcadstarseeker: possibly, but for now it's at least a decent example of having a routine that wraps libged
16:06.01brlcaddefinitely not a proc-db any longer, but still worth having
16:06.48brlcadand that example alone has had me thinking about a few problems with the libged interface that need to be sorted out
16:07.50brlcadnot that it matter, but the one in proc-db is probably 10-100 times faster than going through mged, if performance matter (which it obviously doesn't for this)
16:21.11d-lobrlcad: how ya feelin?
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16:50.10CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33479 10/rt^3/trunk/ (68 files in 9 dirs): Removed more namespacing, still serves no purpose. WS, Header and footer formatting.
17:31.28CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33480 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am tire.xml): Add docbook version of tire man page.
17:31.57CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33481 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (Makefile.am tire.1): Delete old version of tire man page from proc-db
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19:17.34CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33482 10/rt^3/trunk/ (9 files in 6 dirs): Prototyped NetMsg serialization functionality and added tests for it.
20:47.19CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33483 10/rt^3/trunk/ (9 files in 2 dirs): Added three subclasses to NetMsg to support the Network Protocol.
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23:14.13CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33484 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_ogl.c:
23:14.15CIA-31BRL-CAD: the X11/StringDefs.h header is from Xt .. but it isn't clear that anything from
23:14.17CIA-31BRL-CAD: Xt is still being used in here (and more importantly, it seems to compile just
23:14.19CIA-31BRL-CAD: fine without this header). remove it from the list so we don't need to check
23:14.23CIA-31BRL-CAD: for it in configure (nor require libXt-devel as a dependency hopefully).
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090108

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090108

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01:02.38CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33485 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: this is more a blind stab, but try to remove X11/keysym.h too. it's part of Xlib and presumably not needed (glenn added both headers a long time ago)
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04:34.31Dr_Phreakenstein.
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04:43.50Dr_Phreakensteindoes anyone know the current progress of the step interpreter? or perhaps how people can help with that?
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04:48.36ashishraiHi All !!!!
04:49.44ashishraiI am a multi-touch enthusiast and I would like to develop a multitouch interface with brl-cad, a cad system with multi-touch will be very cool - what do you say !!
04:51.17Ralithashishrai: That would be pretty neat.  I look forward to seeing your work.
04:53.07ashishraiThanks Ralith :)
04:54.19ashishraii was researching about a good opensource cad software and i feel that brl-cad would be the best
04:54.41RalithIt's pretty much the only noteworth entry in the field, as far as I know.
04:55.09ashishraii have good working experience with multi-touch ( developed both some hardware and software ) but i am totally newbie to brl-cad
04:55.18ashishraican you please help to how and where to get started with brl-cad
04:55.22Raliththe code is pretty well put together
04:55.40Ralithwell, what do you want your UI to do?
04:57.14ashishrairight now i am thinking of having a UI similar to google skectchup  ie you can draw lines , polygons, solids etc with your hand/pen on the software
04:58.01ashishraii would try to extend it so that many person can work on the same table - ie openning two or more parts , of say , the same design
04:58.21RalithYou should be aware that, at the moment, there's no reliable way to render regions in realtime.
04:58.37Ralithand as such shaded views like you describe can't yet be done.
04:58.41Raliththis is coming.
04:58.51ashishraiok !!
04:59.35Ralithif you're ok with that, I *think* libwdb is the place you want to start; that's what provides an inteface for reading/writing brl-cad databases.
04:59.55ashishraibut still the designing part instead of from mouse and keyboard can be done a surface/table much intitutively
04:59.58ashishraiyeah sure :)
05:00.33ashishraiwe have very good documents on how to use brl-cad , do we have such documentation for the code too
05:01.45ashishraii am sorry if these are very vague questions , i will come back again after having a good look at the code-base  :)
05:02.34ashishraii will concentrate on libwdb - thanks very much for help :)
05:04.10RalithI'm not sure how well documented the code is in general, but I know a lot of effort has gone into it lately
05:04.18Ralithit's certainly worth looking at.
05:04.24Ralithif only to judge its quality.
05:04.32brlcadDr_Phreakenstein: how would you like to help with it?
05:04.48brlcad(and yes, I know the status of it -- it's one of my current tasks)
05:06.15brlcadashishrai: that sounds pretty interesting -- are you interested in hooking multitouch into the existing modeling interface (mged) or working on a new interface or something else?
05:07.00brlcadlibwdb is only for creating geometry -- not so hot for editing in general since you can't read geometry that has been written out
05:07.08brlcadfor full read/write, you use librt
05:07.35brlcadlibwdb is an interface on top of librt
05:08.16brlcadthe code is pretty well documented, but it is a massive code base (more than a million lines) so there are plenty of places that are over-commented and under-commented
05:09.13Ralithlibrt seems more monolithic the more I hear about it :/
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05:09.36ashishraihow about say from the gesture recognition code i have known that till now the user has drawn a line from this point to that and then i would like to invoke the command from brl-cad to display that
05:09.45ashishraii would like to first start with this basic one
05:10.14brlcadRalith: librt isn't a million lines .. :)
05:10.16Dr_Phreakensteinalso interested in multi-touch, but i cannot help/use in the near future
05:10.37yukonbobhello, cadheads
05:11.00Dr_Phreakensteinhello, yukonbob
05:11.07ashishraithen when the user will complete the polygon it will be displayed as a polygon which then again can be stretched in a direction to create a solid
05:11.08brlcadlibrt is basically the file format (.g), basic in-memory geometry representation, and ray-tracing
05:11.12yukonbobevening, doctor
05:11.14brlcadno more, no less
05:11.29Dr_Phreakensteini am still learning to code, so nut much help there
05:11.40brlcad168k lines at a glance in librt
05:11.54Dr_Phreakensteinhowever, i am can help test/debug
05:12.13Dr_Phreakensteini am still studying the ISO standard now
05:12.23ashishraiany sort of help will be highly appreciable   :)
05:12.30brlcadashishrai: the issue with a brl-cad interface is that we don't do much at all with 2D entities -- most of the interactions are in 3D space creating 3D objects directly
05:12.32ashishraii am completely newbie :)
05:13.05Dr_Phreakensteinmy overall plan is to develop an opensource system to do rapid prototyping, with scale-to-manufacturability
05:13.28brlcadit would be really interesting to have a gesture for the various primitives, editing operations, and view manipulations ..
05:13.49ashishraicant  we draw things like lines planes etc in 3d too
05:13.49Dr_Phreakensteinyes
05:13.56ashishraiyes true :)
05:14.05Dr_Phreakensteinyes to brlcad
05:14.38brlcadashishrai: you can, but we focus on solid modeling -- with is intrinsically 3D, objects that occupy a volume
05:15.07brlcadso instead of "draw me these four lines, make a square, extrude it to make a box", we go directly to "make be a box with these dimensions"
05:15.20brlcads/be/me/
05:15.48brlcadDr_Phreakenstein: understandable that you'd be learning the code -- can you do more than test/debug, though? :)
05:15.53ashishrai<PROTECTED>
05:16.07brlcadwe're not exactly ready for testing/debugging just quite yet (maybe in a few weeks)
05:16.33Dr_Phreakensteinwell, it will take me longer than that to learn C
05:16.42Dr_Phreakensteini was just now working on python
05:16.50ashishraiediting of a design on multi-touch surface will also be very great - eg a team working on it
05:16.53brlcadashishrai: that's my point -- our basic primitives are not 2D entities, they're 3D ones -- so the gestures would have a domain to work within
05:17.31jonoredDr_Phreakenstein: You're aware of the RepRap open-source rapid prototyping machine and all that, right? Sounds related, and you're not in their channel here :)
05:17.54brlcadashishrai: here is a basic overview of our fundamental entity types
05:17.57brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives3_grouped.png
05:19.16RalithDr_Phreakenstein: open source rapid prototyping, hm? Ever heard of reprap?
05:19.24ashishraibut how , from the user point of view , can i directly describe such a primitive on a multitouch surface
05:19.26Dr_Phreakensteinnope
05:19.34Dr_Phreakensteinjust looked up
05:19.38RalithDr_Phreakenstein: you'll love it.
05:19.44brlcadashishrai: that would be the trick/work/task :)
05:19.48Ralithopen source sub-$1k FDM machine.
05:19.58Dr_Phreakensteinpretty neat, and a great starting point
05:20.19Dr_Phreakensteini am thinking larger than that, and with a high degree of automation
05:20.21ashishraione way can be - there can be a menu to be selected and then the user can edit it and view it in a intuitive way
05:20.46RalithDr_Phreakenstein: automation in what way?
05:21.10brlcadashishrai: complex gestures for complex shapes, for example .. a "d" gesture might make a cylinder or an "o" might make a sphere
05:21.54brlcador yeah, they select a gui option .. "create torus" .. then the gesture would be specific to the parameters for the torus
05:22.15jonoredBut it's a lot of basic development done, and if you can be compatible you've got a lot of people who would be interested. But the rapid prototyping talk probably would fit better over in #reprap :)
05:22.41yukonbobashishrai: have you heard of Jeff Han?
05:22.42brlcadbasic 3D view manipulation using gestures is something that would be interesting/useful to have by itself without even considering editing options
05:22.49Dr_Phreakensteinstill working on overall plan, however, the original idea was for people to be able to submit something, and i build and assemble it for them...
05:23.02Ralithhey jonored! I was about to mention you.
05:23.13ashishraihmmmm , so where should i start looking in the code where say i can invoke a command with required argumnts
05:23.14ashishraiyukonbob: yeah sure
05:23.18ashishraihe is the bond
05:23.30yukonbob?"the bond"
05:23.39RalithDr_Phreakenstein: I wouldn't call that open source rapid prototyping.
05:23.41ashishraii think he is collaborating with Autocad to develop such a thing
05:23.50brlcadashishrai: a good starting point would be the view gestures that were worked on for blender: http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Manual/Gestures
05:23.54Dr_Phreakensteinit started with circuit boards, where you would send art, i would cut a circuit, and a shipping label would be in a printer
05:24.02RalithDr_Phreakenstein: I'd call that Yet Another Commercial RP service :P
05:24.13Dr_Phreakensteinno, the overall scheme is larger than that
05:24.20brlcadimplementing something like that for mged or archer would be pretty straightforward
05:24.28Dr_Phreakensteinup to that point, you are correct
05:24.53Dr_Phreakensteinmy idea would be based on all open source software
05:25.10Dr_Phreakensteini could do the work for you,
05:25.43Dr_Phreakensteinor set up the facilities for you to have some or all of your own capabilities
05:26.02Dr_Phreakensteinit would have to scale up or down
05:26.14ashishraivery good and it will be a good starting point - after that i will know/think of some editing capabilities too :)
05:27.13brlcadashishrai: the places to look for mged and archer are in src/mged and src/archer respectively .. they are two rather different modeling interfaces (both are C+Tcl hybrid code bases) one in production use, the other a new prototype interface
05:27.38brlcadmged on the C side would probably be the easiest to get started with unless you know Tcl
05:27.40Dr_Phreakensteinalso, part of that is developing /good/ cnc controllers using step-nc, with emc2, on realtime linux
05:28.31ashishraigreat !! thanks brlcad  :)
05:28.54yukonbobbrlcad: how is archer these days?
05:29.28brlcadyukonbob: coming along well actually .. bob has been testing most of his big libged refactoring efforts by putting the changes into archer first
05:29.53brlcadso now archer can do almost everything mged can do via the command line
05:30.30yukonbobbrlcad: that sounds like an excellent way to do development on it... :)
05:30.34yukonbob?screenshots?
05:30.37brlcadso archer is fully hooked into libged, and now he's working on integrating libged back into mged (which will help archer as well)
05:31.07brlcadyukonbob: mm.. don't have any fresh ones on me at the moment
05:31.35brlcadthere is the old one int /tmp/ if you've never seen it at all
05:31.38Dr_Phreakensteini look forward to any improvements to archer
05:32.39brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/Archer_0.5prototype.png (from like three years ago)
05:33.15Ralithnot bad.
05:33.55brlcadif archer can get all of mged's command line functionality, and a few portions of the gui-only functionality that it's missing, it'd be viable to supplant mged after an alpha/beta testing period
05:34.25brlcadthat'd be a ways down the road, though, as mged's gui functionality is pretty substantial compared to archer
05:34.58Dr_Phreakensteinyes, but archer is pretty
05:35.02Dr_Phreakenstein:)
05:35.04Ralith^
05:35.28brlcadand the same could have been said about mged's command-line functionality compared to archer, but here we are 6-months later or so and they're nearly unified
05:35.53Dr_Phreakensteini am impressed
05:36.05Dr_Phreakensteinthat is some pretty substantial work
05:36.52Dr_Phreakensteinthere will never be a replacement for a good command line
05:37.02yukonbob"supplant" -- how so?
05:37.05yukonbobget rid of mged?
05:37.46brlcadas in replace it eventually if/when it encompassed most of the same functionality
05:37.57yukonbobfrowns
05:38.05brlcadwhy?
05:38.13brlcadit's not like mged goes away
05:38.16yukonbobi _like_ mged ;)
05:38.36brlcadit'd be more like the two would merge .. they *are* effectively merging by the nature of refactoring mged into a libged
05:38.45Dr_Phreakensteinthere is a certain difficulty in maintaining parallel implementations of a given functionality
05:38.48brlcadmaking them both use the same editing library
05:39.02yukonbobif it's all still there in some way, that's fine... a window in archer, and a way to hide archer's button panels
05:39.52yukonbobenjoys writing his code in Tcl anyway, and [source]ing it...
05:39.55brlcadyeah, it wouldn't be hard to add an option to make archer spit out three windows instead of one to make it closer to mged
05:40.15brlcadmged actually already has the logic in it to make it a single-window app instead of the multi-window default it does now
05:40.20yukonbobprocedural constructive solid geometry
05:40.34brlcadit was just never fully stabilized as that same mod added tear-off menus and other glitz
05:40.55brlcadand the tear-off's didn't behave quite right iirc (for the ones that are dynamic)
05:41.19brlcadyukonbob: you do know that archer is more Tcl than mged is? :)
05:41.27yukonbobarcher has always been good-looking, and it's nice to hear it's progressing... and coding against the libs can only be good for all involved, so "here's to archer"
05:41.51yukonbobre: archer and Tcl -- no... I think I'm starting to like it more
05:41.53yukonbob:)
05:41.59yukonbobLOL
05:42.02brlcadit's actually pure tcl
05:42.20yukonbobthat's _really_ nice to hear.
05:42.53yukonbobstill needs to get his system stable, and then I'll do more than just "talking" about rendering and using the editors :P
05:42.54brlcadwell, that and it has a package load that hooks into C for the state management and geometry processing (via libged and librt)
05:43.08brlcadinstead of an embedded tcl interpreter, it is just a tcl script that kicks off
05:43.27Ralithbrlcad: archer is tcl? really? I didn't know TCL could look decent :P
05:43.29Ralithtk that is.
05:43.36brlcadRalith: yeah, no kidding :)
05:43.52yukonbob!
05:43.53brlcadthere are a lot of tricks and tweaks off of the defaults to make it look sane like that
05:44.09yukonbobshame -- Tk has been undergoing a facelift for years now
05:44.18yukonbobtile, ttk
05:44.20brlcadit does get a bad rap
05:44.46yukonbobpeople look at screenies from the 80's and say "that doesn't look modern"
05:45.06brlcadand mostly just because a handful of the widget defaults were braindead dumb .. some guy's pet peave on the way he wanted it
05:45.16brlcadtile/ttk are pretty cool..
05:45.48yukonbobgoes to grab food...
05:46.00brlcadlittle harder to use and the widgets aren't as fleshed out, but it's a vast improvement
05:46.18Dr_Phreakensteintcl/tk can look quite good, same as qt3, and is quite stable and robust
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06:07.04Dr_Phreakensteinfind -type f|cat|wc -l
06:07.11Dr_Phreakenstein36591
06:07.28Dr_Phreakensteintotal lines in brlcad svn
06:07.45louipcclear
06:07.50louipcoops
06:08.02Dr_Phreakensteinclear
06:08.17louipconly 36k lines?
06:08.23Raliththat doesn't sound right
06:08.24louipc<PROTECTED>
06:08.29louipc;)
06:08.32Ralithmore likely.
06:09.13Dr_Phreakensteinhmmm
06:09.16Dr_Phreakensteinoops
06:09.30Dr_Phreakensteinfiles
06:09.53louipcyou want `find -type f -exec cat {} \; | wc -l` I guess
06:10.30Dr_Phreakenstein11860839
06:10.41Dr_Phreakensteincat `find -type f`|wc -l
06:11.00Dr_Phreakensteinsorry, tired
06:11.37Dr_Phreakenstein11,860,839 (commas added for emphasis)
06:12.11louipcwow my computer is so slow
06:12.43Dr_Phreakensteinexecuting that command?
06:12.50louipccan't be 11M though...
06:12.51Dr_Phreakensteintook 3.512 real seconds
06:12.52louipcthat's crazy!
06:13.03louipcyes I run a pIII
06:13.06Dr_Phreakensteinno, that is not just source
06:13.16Dr_Phreakensteinthat is everything
06:13.33Dr_Phreakensteinwhich means that if there is a cr/lf in a png, it is counted
06:13.55louipcyea
06:14.13Ralithlouipc: why can't it be 11M?
06:14.34RalithDr_Phreakenstein: try -iname '*.c??' -or -iname '*.h??'
06:14.54louipcDr_Phreakenstein: is that on the svn checkout or on an extracted tarball?
06:14.59Dr_Phreakensteincat `find -type f`|grep .h|wc -l
06:15.05Dr_Phreakenstein1967863
06:15.23louipcRalith: seems like 10 times what I thought it was around
06:15.27Dr_Phreakenstein.c yields
06:15.35Dr_Phreakenstein2998240
06:15.49RalithDr_Phreakenstein: ...why didn't you just do what I suggested :P
06:15.50louipcoh wow
06:16.06Dr_Phreakensteinalready executed mine
06:16.07Ralithlouipc: brl-cad is big.
06:16.23louipci know
06:16.47Dr_Phreakensteinalso, that includes css files
06:17.30louipcDr_Phreakenstein: is that on the svn checkout?
06:17.33louipc11M?
06:17.44Dr_Phreakensteinbut mine includes other erronious things
06:17.45Dr_Phreakensteinyes
06:17.53louipcbecause you'd get all the .svn stuff then
06:18.11Dr_Phreakensteinaccording to the over simplified, unfiltered command above
06:18.19Dr_Phreakensteintrue, so not perfect
06:18.28Dr_Phreakensteinstill impressive
06:18.49louipcthe number will be a lot smaller without .svn
06:19.35Dr_Phreakensteinperhaps
06:19.46Ralithstill >1M
06:20.23louipcno. of files minus .svn = 11131
06:20.38Dr_Phreakensteinyes, but those are small files
06:20.47Dr_Phreakensteincat `find -type f`|grep -v .svn|wc -l
06:20.53Dr_Phreakenstein11838213
06:21.07Dr_Phreakensteincompare to
06:21.09Dr_Phreakenstein11860839
06:21.22louipchmm interesting
06:22.14louipcI think you have to put the grep inside the ` ` though
06:22.28louipctry that :P
06:23.35Ralithheh
06:23.48Ralithlouipc: I was referring to LoC
06:24.18louipcthe history is probably bigger than the actual codebase
06:24.56Dr_Phreakensteingood catch
06:25.09Dr_Phreakensteincat `find -type f|grep -v .svn`|wc -l
06:25.16Dr_Phreakenstein5615906
06:25.49Dr_Phreakensteincd /usr/src/linux-2.6.28-gentoo
06:25.53Dr_Phreakensteinmake distclean
06:26.02Dr_Phreakensteintime cat `find -type f`|wc -l
06:26.07louipcso you finally got the 'real' number hehe
06:26.09Dr_Phreakenstein10122684
06:26.13Dr_Phreakensteinyeah
06:26.27Dr_Phreakensteinthat is much more believable
06:26.42Dr_Phreakenstein5.6 million
06:26.55Dr_Phreakensteinthat's a lot o characters
06:27.41Dr_Phreakensteinover half the size of the linux kernel
06:27.48louipcyou should subtract the blank lines hehe
06:28.14Dr_Phreakensteinok, this is fun, but i don't have all night
06:28.32Dr_Phreakensteinif i was going to do that, i ought to be more productive than counting
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11:35.58d-loMornin all!
11:36.54starseeker snnnnooorrreeeee
11:37.32starseekerd-lo:  Wow you're an early riser :-P
11:37.57starseekershakes head and faces up to the reality of having to drive before 7am...
11:41.09d-loup at 0415 to be @ work by 0615 ;)
11:42.05d-lothrows a bucket of ice water on starseeker. 'Mornin Sunshine!'
11:43.10starseekeris nocturnal by inclination :-P
11:43.58d-lohas choosen to sync 'sleeping habits' with his wife... works out much better in the end ;)
11:44.30starseekerunderstandable :-)
11:45.02d-lobased on irc activity, quite a few 'cadheads' are either nocturnal or on the other side of the globe :)
11:45.24Ralithnocturnal here
11:47.13d-loRalith: Washington state?
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11:57.56starseekeryukonbob: Here's a reasonably recent image:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/archer.png
11:58.42starseekerknows he shouldn't use tire so much, but in this case bob wrote a plugin for tires which is visible on the right.
11:59.34d-loWow.  Thats a *Nice* tire!  Only the combination of a sexy Cad system and brilliant programmers could have come up with that!
11:59.43d-lo:D
12:15.39CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33486 10/rt^3/trunk/ (8 files in 3 dirs): Added Getters n Setters to the NetMsgs
12:16.49archiviststarseeker, how long did it take to create
12:20.58brlcadstarseeker: nice
12:21.58brlcadDr_Phreakenstein: try running sh/enumerate.sh .. that will give a more accurate file/line count
12:23.49brlcad(which will report even non-blank lines too)
12:25.36CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33487 10/rt^3/trunk/ (17 files in 4 dirs): Re-org NetMsg and subclasses into dedicated dir
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12:54.02CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33488 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/enumerate.sh: update the enumeration to more accurately count documentation line counts (wasn't counting the docbook xml files, was counting cmakelist build files and svn files) and 3rd party sources (wasn't counting the c++ sources).
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14:33.56yukonbobstarseeker: re: archer - nice! thx
14:34.06CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33489 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (15 files in 2 dirs): More mods related to MGED using libged.
14:53.19CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33490 10/rt^3/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Added NetMsg subclass: GeometryManifestMsg
14:54.48d-lomake oddness :/  its not seeing files that are there and seeing other files that aren't there...... ghost in the shell :/
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17:08.11CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33491 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.c: Added ged_output_handler. Output from rt, rtcheck, rtedge, etc. is restored.
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17:16.15csanyipalHello!
17:18.32csanyipalI'm making a tutorial for my pupils. I want to ask you about Ellipsoid Generic (ellg) that can be find in the "Introduction to the MGED" tutorial at page 261.
17:19.06d-loAsk away!
17:19.28csanyipalI can't figure out what is the Chord length, l?
17:19.54csanyipalI can't find it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsoid
17:24.10d-lodon't quote me on this, but if you look at the drawing on p261, I believe the Chord length is the distance between B and C....
17:26.07d-loi *think* an ellg is merely an ell with v->c being equal to v->b and l = b->c.
17:27.04d-losimilar is the ell1.  Instead of controlling l (as in the ellg), one controls r (which is v->b AND v->c)
17:27.22d-loagain, don't quote me :)
17:28.03csanyipald-lo: ok, I'll think about what did you say! :)
17:28.06d-lowait for brlcad and/or starseeker and/or anyone else with a firmer grasp on BRL-CAD's ellipsoid implementation
17:28.22csanyipald-lo: ok
17:34.38CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33492 10/rt^3/trunk/ (14 files in 6 dirs): Finished implementing GeometryManifestMsg. Cleaned up a segfault in netMsgSerialTest
17:42.50csanyipalI try to create an ellg and I think I figure out what is the Chord length: it is the Major Axis of the Ellipse..
17:45.16csanyipalI'm sure about this. :)
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17:45.28d-loalrighty then.  Good on ya!
17:45.45csanyipald-lo: Thanks anyway! :)
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18:10.55d-lohai ``Erik_ !
18:12.21d-lokicks CIA-31
18:12.21CIA-31ow
18:12.25CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33493 10/rt^3/trunk/ (7 files in 6 dirs): Consolidated ibme/gs/ge related binary generation into src/iBME. Moved all test source files into src/test/
18:12.31CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33494 10/rt^3/trunk/src/tests/streamSerialTests.cxx: Added streamSerialTests.cxx into src/test/
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19:29.03d-lokicks CIA-31
19:29.04CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33495 10/rt^3/trunk/src/GeometryService/ (GeometryService.cxx gsph0.cxx netMsg/NetMsg.cxx): Work towards having a bare bones (aka running) geometry service. Starting from a simple tcp echo server for initial phase.
19:29.14CIA-31ow
19:29.29d-lomust be cold.  CIA is a bit slow :P
19:43.01*** join/#brlcad bjorklinux (n=bjork@ip72-204-40-138.fv.ks.cox.net)
19:43.12bjorklinuxi figured this would be the best place to ask... what's cigi?
19:43.27bjorklinuxas in http://cigi.sourceforge.net
19:43.31bjorklinuxanything to do with brlcad?
19:44.49d-lo... Common Image Generator Interface?   Centre for International Governance Innovation? Chicago Interface Group, Inc?
19:46.23bjorklinuxthe image generator bit.
19:47.00d-loNot that I am aware of.  I am pretty sure that CIGI has everything to do with realtime simulation.
19:48.12bjorklinuxhmm.
19:48.40d-lohow did you connect CIGI to BRLCAD?
19:49.02bjorklinuxit had lots of graphics :)
19:49.11bjorklinuxalso 'image generator'
19:49.22bjorklinuxi thought i'd start here for clues
20:27.19CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33496 10/rt^3/trunk/src/iBME/Makefile.am: integrated gsph0 into the build system.
20:38.07csanyipalso long!
20:48.14brlcadd-lo: that sounds right regarding ellg and ell1 .. just different knobs so you can specify them more intuitively depending on what measurements/constraints you have
20:48.43brlcadthey really should all three be collapsed into one primitive with variable typein interfaces, but they're just old history
20:52.18brlcadbjorklinux: we have nothing to do with cigi
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22:40.15bjorklinuxthanks brlcad.
22:49.27brlcadbjorklinux: sure .. if you want to do something with us/them -- go for it ;)
23:59.08``Erikhuh, elise 0-60 4.9, skidpad .97  M3 0-60 4.8, skidpad .98... you're just half a hair behind me, boy :D *duck*
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090109

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090109

00:00.11``Erik1/4 elise=13.9 m3=13.3
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00:28.52``Erik*autopeen*
00:39.19louipchow does the m3 go around turns though?
01:11.47``Erikskidpad is .98
01:13.00``Erikelise scores .97, most sedans seem around .75
01:13.29``Erikcorvette z06 seems to get 1.060
01:14.38``Erik(that's lateral g-force before traction loss)
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05:16.39starseekerwooo hooo - rockbox ftw!
05:17.40starseekershould sleep now...
05:19.18Ralithrockbox is indeed awesome
05:19.21Ralithhas it on an iaudio
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06:38.25brlcadhum
06:39.42brlcad``Erik: not likely the way you drive.. that difference is easily made up :)
06:41.27brlcadnot that I'd likely ever try to push the car anywhere near the triple redlining it'd take to get up to that speed exactly that quickly
06:44.08PrezKennedybrlcad, work might go and get me Apple certified
06:44.27PrezKennedythen i can serve you guys your poison fruit... mwahaha!
06:44.48RalithPrezKennedy: by which I'm sure you mean 'maintain a OSX distribution' :D
06:44.58Ralithor do we already have that?
06:45.47brlcad``Erik: plus there are varying other reports outside of what lotus reports that usually show different numbers so there is some fudge in there (e.g., http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?article_id=1949&section_id=31&page_number=7 )
06:45.57brlcadPrezKennedy: heh
06:46.30PrezKennedyif work is paying for it, ill use it!
06:50.17brlcadthat's the spirit ;)
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12:11.04nicehello
12:11.04nicehi
12:11.04nicekoi to bolo
12:11.05nice<PROTECTED>
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14:12.38brlcadpatience young padawan
14:16.49``Erikbrlcad: there are places where I light up and zoom, I'm just sedate 99% of the time :D there are places where I feel the frame twist daily from cornering, and places were I spin up the tires... pretty much daily :( mebbe that's why I only got 10 months off the last set of rears
14:17.24``Erikr&t rated the 0-60 on the m as 4.5s, don't remember what the skidpad was
14:18.03``Erikfast cars are scary
14:18.18``Erik<-- mostly afearin' hitting the brakes and the guy behind not having the same stopping ability
14:19.02``Erikone of these days, we'll have to swap cars driving out to lunch or something ;) *duck*
14:23.02clock_``Erik: the stopping ability is determined mostly by the tyre and road material which is roughly the same isnt it?
14:24.11``Erikand the ability to dissipate heat, and the ability for the vehicle to not flip, and... supposedly the average sedan can do a stop from 100-0kph in 60m, I can in 36
14:24.20``Eriksupposedly
14:24.53``Erikthen when you have things like SUV's and pickups on the road, they stop slower, I had a gentle stop a while back in rain, and the truck behind me kept losing traction and going side to side, fortunately the driver blew into a side lane :(
14:25.07``ErikI don't think he was paying attention and hit the brakes too late and too hard, though
14:25.38clock_who cares about losing traction?
14:25.43clock_traction is just for comfort...
14:25.46``Erikfor fun, I've started seeing how fast I can stop just before a 90 degree turn, it's more than half what my small street pickup could've done
14:25.58``Erikuhm, well, I'd get uncomfortable if someone rear-ended me :D
14:26.32clock_I found out since I ride snowboard I have a natural reflex to handle skids
14:26.42clock_I do automatically what people are taught in the skid schools
14:26.56clock_cause with snowboard you do skids all teh time ;-)
14:27.06``Erik<-- points out that he's not concerned about himself losing traction, he's concerned about someone else losing traction and hitting him
14:28.06``Erikwhen I was 17, I took a beat up pickup out to gravel roads and drove like an idiot, did the same on snow and ice... I can control my vehicle well enough in traction loss situations :D I'm concerned about the idiot that hits me
14:29.01``Erikmy one vehicle mistake was pushing things hard on an unknown road, if it didn't crest and turn at the same time (reducing normal force) and LOOK like it went straight, I would've been fine
14:29.49``Erikbut I've witnessed many accidents from people who simply don't understand the limits of the {vehicle,road,conditions} and don't know how to react when things go sour
14:29.56clock_what is crest
14:30.03``Erikum, over teh top of a hill
14:30.40clock_well if you lose contact with the ground you cannot steer the vehicle anymore
14:31.07``ErikI didn't go airborne, but the cresting reduced my traction enough that I couldn't stick through the turn
14:31.14``Erikthen there was a tree
14:31.29``Erikjumped out of nowhere, I tell ya, they're sneaky devils
14:31.38clock_yeah they like made of rubber
14:32.03clock_did it want you to take it for a hitchhike?
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16:09.16louipcwow multi-user version-controlled geometry services eh
16:12.12louipcthat may intersect with one of my projects - the multi-user version-controlled services part at least heh
16:13.52``Eriksticks his finger up his nose
16:20.15PrezKennedyyou're pointing at your brain!
16:20.42``Erikyes, pheer my awesome aim, I can point at dust on a fleas ass from 20 klicks out
16:21.57PrezKennedyoh yeah well i can point at a star hundreds of light years away
16:22.58louipcstars are huge though
16:23.08``Erikstars are pretty damn big, I mean, if you compare arcseconds of a typical star vs flea assdust twelve and a half miles away...
16:23.35PrezKennedyyoull have to computer it and let me know what the difference is :)
16:23.40PrezKennedy*compute
16:24.29``Eriknah, I have lunch to attend to, but you'd better have the answer on my desk by COB, mr!
16:32.36PrezKennedy"Apart from the sun, the star with the largest angular diameter from Earth is R Doradus, a red supergiant with a diameter of 0.05 arcseconds."
16:36.54*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@unaffiliated/minuteelectron)
17:25.38brlcadwaves to MinuteElectron
17:32.49MinuteElectronhi, brlcad
17:33.58brlcadMinuteElectron: happy holidays, how've you been?
17:34.45MinuteElectronthanks, i've been ok a bit depressed recently but I managed to get myself some freelance work so it's not all bad
17:34.50MinuteElectronyourself?
17:36.30*** join/#brlcad b0ef` (n=b0ef@95.34.57.61.customer.cdi.no)
17:40.14brlcadMinuteElectron: oh, pretty good -- having fun adjusting my lifestyle a little bit
17:40.23brlcadbut now about ready to get back to working on more code
17:40.38brlcadsorry to hear about being depressed.. that sucks!
17:40.39MinuteElectronah, nice; did the move go well?
17:41.24MinuteElectronyeah, stress and what not all built up since the summer
18:14.01brlcadMinuteElectron: yeah, the move went great .. still shopping for some furniture and knocking holes in walls but making progress
18:42.20``Erikif I did my math right, the average speck of dust at 20km will be 0.0000103 arcseconds
19:05.08``Erik(defun rad2arcsec (rad)  (/ rad (/ pi 648000)))
19:05.08``Erik(defun arcsec (opp adj) (rad2arcsec (atan (/ opp adj))))
19:05.14``Erikpheer my nerdiness
19:14.26archivisthehe we used to spec a torque meter in height in New York from the UK
19:14.59archivistthe resolution of the shaft twist
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19:45.51CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33497 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: susan's middle name started with an A
19:51.11CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33498 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/make.c: Tweak the parameters of the following primitives to give better results wrt the view: grip, hyp, part, rcc, rec, rhc, rpc, tec, tgc, trc and all arbs
19:52.49CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33499 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac src/Makefile.am src/README src/mk/ src/shapes/):
19:52.49CIA-65BRL-CAD: rename the old 'mk' tools to just generalized 'shapes' as in tools that create
19:52.49CIA-65BRL-CAD: objects corresponding to various prescribed shapes. thanks to steven kennedy
19:52.49CIA-65BRL-CAD: for the mini-nomenclature brainstorming session result. tools still need to
19:52.51CIA-65BRL-CAD: have the mk_ prefix removed for simplicity.
19:56.04CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33500 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): move the tire tool into the 'new' shapes directory.
19:59.12*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
20:02.34CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33501 10/brlcad/trunk/ (26 files in 2 dirs): renamed all of the mk_ binaries to remove the mk_ prefix so it's just 'window' 'handle' 'gastank' 'wire' 'window' 'winfrm' 'handle' and 'bolt' now.
20:11.51CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33502 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): move the fence tool from proc-db to shapes
20:32.55CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33503 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/scale.c: Fixed the sscanf statement in ged_scale_args.
20:35.42CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33504 10/brlcad/trunk/src/shapes/ (12 files): remove the mk_ prefix references now that they're renamed.
20:36.35CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33505 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (conv/bot_dump.c libged/bot_dump.c): This fixes bug 2279400 (i.e. but_dump -u option problems)
20:44.57CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33506 10/brlcad/trunk/src/shapes/ (bolt.c gastank.c handle.c window.c winfrm.c wire.c): clean up header comments to be consistent with the other sources (no authorship or complication instructions, that's for docs). some ws cleanup too.
20:50.10CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33507 10/brlcad/trunk/src/shapes/ (bolt.c gastank.c handle.c window.c winfrm.c wire.c): remove gratuitous spacing
20:54.25CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33508 10/brlcad/trunk/src/shapes/ (bolt.c gastank.c handle.c window.c winfrm.c wire.c): ws alignment cleanup
21:00.24``Erikone of these days, I'll figure out not to bother updating during a flurry O.o
21:34.17CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33509 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (picket_fence.1 picket_fence.c): cleanup the picket_fence proc. fix a crashing bug on not testing for valid inputs, ws/style/indent, validate numeric args.
21:41.28CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33510 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged.c: Set initial view scale to 500.
21:46.07CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33511 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (attach.c mged.c setup.c): A little cleanup and a minor mod that fixes a solid edit illumination problem that crept in with the push to use libged.
21:51.47*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-205.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
23:20.27``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/~erik/paper.html
23:24.14alex_joni``Erik: lol
23:24.35``Erik(it was in a place where you had to click on thumbnails to view each one, so I figured I'd glue it together for ya'll)
23:27.14alex_joniluckily opera has a zoom function :)
23:28.47alex_jonilol @ works cited / tubgirl
23:29.53``Erikfirefox3 zooms images when you zoom text
23:30.07alex_jonicool, older ones didn't
23:30.14``Erikjust before it came out, I put some javascript zoom on click code in my comic page :/
23:30.25alex_jonialthough you could zoom using mouse gestures
23:30.47alex_jonibut you had to zoom individual images
23:31.39``Erikyeah, firefox had an addon called "imagezoom" that give you zoom options with various click combos
23:32.04``Erik<-- tried to push opera on his parents to get them off of ie, was using galeon at the time
23:33.03alex_jonichrome is really nice
23:33.52``Erikhaven't tried it yet *shrug* supposedly it's very fast
23:34.00alex_joniit is
23:34.22alex_joniwell, only a couple months away from mac and linux versions
23:34.46``ErikI thought those were out
23:34.50``Erikwhere's my freebsd version?
23:34.58``Erikwhere's my haiku version?
23:34.58``Erik:D
23:35.34alex_joninot yet
23:42.44CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33512 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/picket_fence.c: move the -r option to before the waypoints so that it's easier book-keeping. maybe cliff can fix the bug with a simple two-point fence where it creates a top-level null combination.
23:45.09CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33513 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): move picket_fence from proc_db over to the 'new' shapes directory. seems to work well enough now, minus one top-level bug with two points.
23:50.57CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33514 10/brlcad/trunk/src/shapes/ (winfrm.1 winfrm.c): rename winfrm to window_frame
23:52.17CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33515 10/brlcad/trunk/src/shapes/ (Makefile.am window_frame.1 window_frame.c winfrm.1 winfrm.c): rename winfrm to window_frame. avoid unnecessary name obscurity.
23:53.18CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33516 10/brlcad/trunk/src/shapes/ (bolt.1 gastank.1 handle.1 window.1 wire.1): remove a few missed Mk_ prefixes
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090110

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090110

00:30.39*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
00:42.44starseeker``Erik:  You're running haiku?
00:43.34starseekerbrlcad:  I'm being nominated to fix picket fence?  
00:43.36starseekermakes note
00:50.53``Eriknope, starseeker, I just like being a pita
00:51.21``Erikhaiku is more up jay-lo and brlcad's alley, I'm more of a unix classicist, more likely to have hpux, aix, or *bsd
00:52.43``Erikthis is annoying, I wanna go poop, but I don't wanna miss the end of this atlantis, I haven't seen it before
00:52.47``Erikcurses his lack of tivo
00:56.53``ErikO.O
00:57.02``Erikwow, I'm glad I didn't leave, that was... not very tv like
01:41.45*** join/#brlcad brlcad (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz)
01:47.10starseekerheh - boing
01:47.34``Erikeh?
01:47.44``Erikkeep your boners private, boy
01:48.40starseekerno no - brlcad's in and out of the channel
01:48.49starseekerwhat was the weird ending - movie like?
01:49.48``Erikum, on atlantis, two people were body swapped, one was about to be killed, they unfuxxed the body swap, the one with the gun to the head said "no, it's me" and started spouting facts, the dude with the gun said "I don't believe you", cut to black, bang
01:50.51``Erikthinks the writers heard about the cancellation before writing the last few episodes and said "fuck bubblegum and lollipops, let's do it good"
01:51.47``Erikthis episode has been fairly dark and grim, highly unusual (using marylin manson and johnny cash in the audio), ... I'm actually excited to see the next :D
01:52.59starseekerah
01:53.10starseekercheerful
01:53.51``Erikah, this'd be the episode lee talked about, with the 5mph a10's
01:54.18Ralith``Erik: yeah, but you *know* cut-to-black-bang means someone *else* got shot or something.
01:54.45``Eriknah, was a one-shot character
01:54.48Ralithalso 5mph a10s would be pretty awesome for the first few seconds
01:54.50Ralithoh, ok
01:54.50``Erikwho was a "grey" figure
01:54.52Ralithin that case awesome
01:55.02Ralith(after the first few seconds they would run out of ammo)
01:55.20``ErikI d'no, a10's carry a LOT of 30mm rounds
01:55.32Ralithhm? I thought all they had was the big axial gun.
01:55.34``Erikthey could burn off the gun a dozen times over with the their load
01:55.44Ralith'burn off'?
01:55.46``Erikthey have the big 30 up front, plus whatever's on the pods
01:55.59``Erikuhm, guns generate heat, heat dissepation is an issue
01:56.05Ralithah yeah.
01:56.10Raliththat thing's only 30mm?
01:56.10``Erikportable machine guns have big air coolers, some even had water coolers
01:56.19Ralithcould've sworn it was bigger.
01:56.27Ralithanyway, you know how fast it fires
01:56.29``Erik30mm DU rounds will punch through just about any tanks top armor
01:56.39``Erikmost aircraft carry 14.4 or 20mm
01:56.50``Erikwith a fraction of the load of an a10
01:56.59Ralithit might carry tons of ammo but it fires at ridiculous rates
01:57.11``Erikoh yeah
01:57.19``Erikbut it can only do short bursts before it has to stop to cool
01:57.28Ralithpoint
01:58.00Ralithsomeone should apply the a10 concept to a helicopter :D
01:58.23``Erikum
01:58.26``Erikthey call it the apache?
01:58.29``Erik:D
01:58.44``Erikah64?
01:59.02``Erikor, dare I say it, the HIN-E
01:59.05PrezKennedythey brought the heli concept over ti planes with a-10 is more like it
01:59.12PrezKennedy*to
02:00.00``Erika10 is '72, ah64 is '81
02:00.05``Erikcare to rethink? :D
02:00.21``Erikall hail wikipedia
02:01.07Ralith``Erik: bah, rocket pods don't count.
02:01.28RalithI mean ridiculously huge gun :D
02:02.00Ralith(although recoil would probably crash the thing)
02:02.20``Erikthe nose gun on the ah64 is pretty brutal, especially with the helmet controlled aim
02:02.30Raliththey have helmet controlled aim?
02:02.32Ralithcooool
02:02.45``Erikyeah, the gunner looks at the target, the 30mm gun points there
02:02.58``Erikthere's a reticule on a flip down pane that provides crosshairs
02:03.08Raliththat's pretty awesome
02:03.24Ralithhopefully it aligns quickly?
02:03.26``Erikit's an m230, not a gau8, slower rate of fire, MUCH smaller ammo suppy
02:03.28``Erikinstantly
02:03.36Ralithnice!
02:03.50``Erikthe apache one is a single bolt feeder, the a10 one is a 6 barrel gattlign
02:04.12``Erikagain, heat dissipation issue :D
02:04.18Ralithyup.
02:04.35RalithI want a helicopter gunship :(
02:04.55Ralithis it still a practical antitank weapon at low rates of fire like that?
02:05.02``Erikmeh, if your'e gonna go to a gunship, why not get an ac130?
02:05.16``Erikyes, the bullets penetrate most top armor
02:05.25PrezKennedy<3 ac-130
02:05.41``Erikhowitzer with wings
02:05.42PrezKennedyfavorite part of the movie Transformers is when they call in one of those
02:06.09Ralithah, that thing
02:06.29Ralitheh, hard to be personal about it when you're that far away.
02:06.37Ralithand none of the awesome heli maneuvering, either.
02:06.43``Eriktanks are built with most of the armor on the front glacis, the big deal about the tow missile is that it flies OVER the target and shoots down, into the thinner top armor... aircraft happen to always hit the top armor
02:07.13*** join/#brlcad archivist_ub (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
02:07.36``Erikhehehe, screw heli maneuvers, a specters usual pattern is to acquire an "orbit" and pummel the target from like ten miles out
02:07.59Ralithyeah, I know
02:08.03Ralithbut it's not as cool :(
02:08.26``Erikwell, it's like comparing drag racers to formula 100's
02:08.33``Erikthey're built for very different purposes
02:08.54Ralithyup
02:49.09``Erikitches to jabber about spoilers O.o
03:06.28Ralith?
03:12.37``Erikstargate atlantis
03:12.56``Erikit ended much putzier than I woulda hoped, given the two preceding episodes :(
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03:39.37brlcad``Erik: it's not over, though -- they've openly said there will be at least one or probably two movies coming out afterwards
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04:09.33``Erikguess that'd explain the putz ending
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04:34.38Dr_Phreakenstein.
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10:26.00*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@91.102.231.33)
10:27.04csanyipalhowdy!
10:29.30csanyipalI'm making a tutorial for my pupils, using the "Introduction to MGED" tutorial. I get an error message in MGED when doing: menu / Edit / Primitive Editor
10:29.52csanyipalThis is at page 49 in the tutorial.
10:30.05csanyipalThe error message is:
10:32.44csanyipalextra switch pattern with no body, this may be due to a comment incorrectly placed outside of a switch body - see the "switch" documentation extra switch pattern with no body, this may be due to a comment incorrectly placed outside of a switch body - see the "switch" documentation    while executing "switch -glob $fe_type {# bu_vls type arguments are %V, char arrays are %s.# XXX - %S is DEPRECATED [7.14]{%*[sSV]} {    if $do_gui {en..."    
10:32.44csanyipal(procedure "esol_build_form" line 49)    invoked from within "esol_build_form $id $w $esol_control($id,type) $vals 1 1 1"    (procedure "esol_build_default_form" line 22)    invoked from within "esol_build_default_form $id $w.sformF"    (procedure "init_edit_solid" line 90)    invoked from within "init_edit_solid id_0"    invoked from within ".topid_0.#topid_0#menubar.#topid_0#menubar##id_0#menubar#edit invoke active"    ("uplevel" body line 1)    inv
10:32.45csanyipaloked from within "uplevel #0 [list $w invoke active]"    (procedure "cad_MenuInvoke" line 33)    invoked from within "cad_MenuInvoke .topid_0.#topid_0#menubar.#topid_0#menubar##id_0#menubar#edit 1"    (command bound to event)
10:32.59csanyipalIs this a bug?
10:40.28csanyipalI have BRL-CAD version 7.14.1 from SVN.
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12:38.22brlcadcsanyipal: yep, that's probably a very recent bug (probably specific to 7.14.1)
12:47.22CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33517 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/Makefile.am: there are no longer manpages in this dir to dist
12:50.27csanyipalbrlcad: Thank You!
12:52.18CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33518 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
12:52.18CIA-65BRL-CAD: bob fixed a recently introduced issue with the make command in mged where it was
12:52.18CIA-65BRL-CAD: creating objects using object keypoints instead of the view center. this was
12:52.18CIA-65BRL-CAD: reported by butler et al via sf bug #2279233 (mged "make" command changed).
12:54.14CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33519 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: related to the make command fixes, bob also tweaked the scale sizes for various primitives including grip, hyp, part, rcc, rec, rhc, rpc, tec, tgc, trc and all arbs
12:56.12CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33520 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
12:56.12CIA-65BRL-CAD: bob fixed the -u option to bot_dump so that the user can specify units. the
12:56.12CIA-65BRL-CAD: problem was simply that argument processing wasn't reading the unit value
12:56.12CIA-65BRL-CAD: (missing colon on getopt). this fixes the sf bug #2279400 (bot_dump -u option
12:56.14CIA-65BRL-CAD: problems) reported by butler et al on the modeling team.
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19:07.48CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33521 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c:
19:07.50CIA-65BRL-CAD: fix the long-standing load problems with finding itcl.tcl at runtime when we're
19:07.52CIA-65BRL-CAD: not installed yet. it turns out that incrTcl doesn't use the auto_path to look
19:07.54CIA-65BRL-CAD: for its own files, it uses an init script that only checks relative to
19:07.56CIA-65BRL-CAD: tcl_library and the ITCL_LIBRARY environment variable. we can't use the prior,
19:07.58CIA-65BRL-CAD: so we use the latter.
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19:20.33CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33522 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c:
19:20.33CIA-65BRL-CAD: add some protections so that the user can still manually override ITCL_LIBRARY
19:20.33CIA-65BRL-CAD: and ITK_LIBRARY and have the values respected. we do only respect it, though,
19:20.33CIA-65BRL-CAD: if we find an itcl.tcl and itk.tcl file there otherwise the automatic searching
19:20.34CIA-65BRL-CAD: still tries to find a match.
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22:08.20csanyipalHello! I try to use the Overlap Tool - brlcad version 7.14.1
22:09.49csanyipalI can't get such an image as in the "Introduction to MGED" tutorial at page 53.
22:10.00csanyipalHow can I get this picture?
22:18.06CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33523 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
22:18.08CIA-65BRL-CAD: fixed a run-time failure where mged would fail to start up giving an error
22:18.10CIA-65BRL-CAD: saying it couldn't find the itcl.tcl file. the problem is due to incrTcl
22:18.12CIA-65BRL-CAD: ignoring the auto_path during Itcl_Init(), so it needed a little more
22:18.14CIA-65BRL-CAD: encouragement via setting ITCL_LIBRARY.
22:34.12brlcadcsanyipal: that picture was probably made by intersecting the two primitives and then just ray-tracing it
22:39.15brlcadif you want a quick review of overlaps, you can run "rtcheck" on the command-line (rtcheck -s### so set the sample density)
22:39.28brlcadrotate the view after you run the command to see the overlapping segments
22:39.54brlcadthe Overlap Tool basically does the same thing, be sure to rotate the view after running a check
22:47.04csanyipalbrlcad: Thank You!
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23:05.26csanyipalSo long!
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090111

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090111

00:08.05CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33524 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: getting incrTcl subconfigure to work would be kind of a waste of time given how much it's radically changed for the pending 4.0 release that has a drastically changed build system.
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02:32.12yukonbobhey cadheads
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02:38.20bjork_such a word exists?
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02:54.13brlcadapparently ;)
03:48.44brlcadstruggles to find a way to make incrTcl work with system tcl/tk
04:10.54Ralithsuggests bribery
04:15.15brlcadhas a plot developing
04:36.48TwingyPEANUT BUTTAH JELLY TIME!@!
05:00.55brlcadpeanut buttah jelly with a baseball bat!
05:02.20poolioHeh, I have a friend who dressed up in a banana suit and went around singing that for halloween :)
05:02.44brlcadhehe
05:15.30Twingypolishes up gcam for release tomorrow
05:18.28DanielFalckhey Twingy, what's new in gcam?
05:18.53TwingyDanielFalck: hi
05:19.37DanielFalckTwingy: does it run under Mac OS X?
05:20.24Twingyno more cut/paste/move prev move next, replaced with drag and drop in treeview, object picking in 3D window, material origin selection, improved pocketing code, several bug fixes, flip direction, and adding helical tool paths in sketches atm
05:20.39TwingyDanielFalck: yea, if you have gtk + gtkglext + opengl
05:20.59DanielFalckok, I might be able to get them installed here
05:21.18Twingyafter I get ubuntu .deb package done I need to talk to emc guys to get it onto live CD
05:21.24Twingyafter that I need to update the manual
05:22.20DanielFalckI have gtkglext1 in fink, cool
05:22.39Twingyafter that I am extending the Y axis on my mill an extra 4 inches, machining out a new bedway and rails
05:23.00TwingyI need to be able to cut 9" diameter for a vacuum chamber I'm working on
05:23.27DanielFalck9" diameter what?
05:23.34Twingycircle
05:24.44DanielFalckin aluminum?
05:25.04Twingyacrylic, the bed way is T-6061 aluminum, the rails are T-306 stainless
05:25.45Twingythen I am junking the 1/4 HP AC motor for a 3-phase brushless
05:25.54Twingymuch smaller and more efficient
05:26.05Twingyand I can wire speed controller into the xylotex for digital control
05:27.43TwingyI've had about 20 orders come to the house in the last month
05:29.33DanielFalckyou make vacuum chambers commercially?
05:30.40Twingyno no, this is for a flywheel project I'm doing
05:30.48DanielFalckoh, ok...
05:32.50Twingyhopefully another 9 months doesn't go by before the next release
05:33.49DanielFalckdo you have dxf import in gcam?
05:34.31Twingythat's next ver
05:34.45TwingyI've got all the contouring algorithms done when I did the RS274X code
05:34.53Twingyso it should be fairly painless
05:35.23TwingyI just don't want to get bogged down in writing too much software in one stint
05:35.39DanielFalckdo you do offset contour pocketing?
05:35.39Twingygcam is second to my projects
05:35.58Twingythe contour pocketing is in the same boat, the algorithms are there I just haven't tied them into the sketches yet
05:36.33Twingythere's a ton of low hanging fruit in gcam right now, just limited amount of time to do stuff
05:36.37DanielFalckI've been told that the algorithms for pocketing are pretty hard
05:36.57DanielFalckI might be wrong...
05:38.47Twingywell zig zag is trivial, it's just horizontal lines with a finish pass
05:39.06Twingythere are papers on the contouring, but honestly it's not as complicated as people make it out to be
05:39.08DanielFalckhow about offset contour with islans?
05:39.16DanielFalckislands-
05:39.28Twingyexactly, so I have an algorithm that does line/line line/arc arc/arc intersections
05:39.29DanielFalckthat's the one everyone seems to avoid
05:39.44Twingyand I can set a negative offset and perform the intersections
05:40.02Twingyonce the offset gets to a point where 0 area exists then it's done
05:40.37Twingyso it's basically just a for loop calling this function over and over decreasing the offset by the radius of the end mill
05:40.58Twingyand the islands just form as a result of the intersections
05:41.30Twingyall that intersection code was kind of a headache to write, but it has so much application
05:41.47DanielFalckI hope you get that one going. Nobody else seems to be working on it in the OS world
05:42.19TwingyI put in a formal application to GNU community for GNU approval
05:42.32TwingyI think it has enough critical mass to be looked at seriously
05:43.06Twingyand I think once the contour pocketing and STL/DXF is done it's going to put a number of those less $100 software packages out of business
05:43.09DanielFalckwhat does the GNU approval do for the project?
05:43.22Twingyit means that if you log into the gnu ftp site you'll see gcam there
05:43.27DanielFalckok
05:43.34DanielFalckjust like gcc
05:43.37Twingyright
05:43.43Twingyit'll probably be real close to gcc :)
05:44.20Twingythey advocate using guile for the development environment but we'll see about that :)
05:44.22DanielFalckyes
05:45.01TwingyI just keep chipping away at it
05:45.24TwingyI worked on large software project before this called Nurbana, but I am now convinced I lost interest because I didn't use it in my projects
05:45.34TwingyI am using GCAM on a weekly, some times daily basis
05:45.40Twingyit's the perfect synergy
05:48.27DanielFalckfink didn't have gtk+2.10 , so I'm downloading something from the Gtk+ site for os X now
05:48.30DanielFalck2.14
05:50.07Twingyah
05:50.16Twingywhat did it have?
05:50.22DanielFalck2.6.10
05:50.31Twingyoh wow, that is ancient
05:50.37Twingythat is like 5 years old
05:50.45DanielFalckyeah, fink is really old in the tooth
05:51.06Twingythat came out long before dapper drake
05:51.14DanielFalckit's been several years since I've used a mac at home and Linux is much nicer for source code
05:51.27TwingyI jut got a black berry with blue tooth modem tethering
05:51.28DanielFalckI'm using Ubuntu 8.04 on this box
05:51.32TwingyI set it up on my mac in like 30 seconds
05:51.44TwingyI can surf the net at about 1Mb now anywhere
05:52.08Twingyworks from ubuntu as well
05:52.14TwingyI love it
05:52.52TwingyI got a little USB thing http://www.cirago.com/images/bluetooth/Cirago_BTA3210_2.jpg
05:53.00TwingyI can plug it into desktop computers and they can surf the net too
05:53.54RalithTwingy: oo, you're the gcam guy?
05:54.02TwingyRalith: yes!
05:54.17Ralithhow hard do you think it would be to add fused deposition modelling support?
05:54.34Twingyyou just need a command to turn the head on and off right?
05:54.50Twingyand it's an additive process instead of subtractive
05:54.51Ralithas far as tool control? yeah
05:55.03Twingyright?
05:55.06Ralithyes
05:55.10Twingyshould be trivial
05:55.12Raliththat's the bit I'd expect to cause probl--
05:55.14Ralithawesome!
05:55.33Twingyin terms of rendering the final object I just invert the bit on the voxels
05:55.38Twingyso they appear instead of dissapear
05:55.52Ralithwhat sort of files can gcam take?
05:56.06TwingyRalith: only gerber files for circuit boards, next version will have DXF/STL stuff
05:56.15Twingyversion after that I plan on support 4D and 5D mills
05:56.31Ralither, you have (and have had for a long time) screenshots w/ 3D stuff
05:56.53Twingythere will be a few minor releases in bewtween the next two major releases
05:57.07Twingyto improve performance and 3D rendering I think
05:57.15Ralithso 3D is not actually currently supported?
05:57.19Twingyit is
05:57.27Ralithhow, if all you can take is gerber?
05:57.27Twingywire frame and voxel view
05:57.42Twingythe rendering is done based on the tool paths and a hunk of material in gcam
05:57.50Twingyit mills away material
05:57.55Twingyyou click render and you see the final part
05:58.00Ralither, doesn't gcam generate the toolpaths?
05:58.02Twingyyes
05:58.10Twingybut you can preview what your part will look like
05:58.14Ralithwhat does it generate the toolpaths from?
05:58.24Twingyit's coarse, but it's a good way of checking before you cut it out
05:58.33Twingythe tool paths come from my libgcode
05:58.39Twingyit's thousands of lines of code
05:58.45Ralithwhere does it get the information with which to generate the toolpaths
05:58.49Ralithit's not telepathic
05:59.07Twingythe GUI, you create sketches, bolt holes, drill holes, etc
05:59.17Twingyyou see it in wire frame
05:59.26Ralithso it can't import models at all?
05:59.35Twingyonly gerber right now
05:59.41Ralithgerber doesn't do models
05:59.41Twingynext version will be dxf/stl
05:59.42Ralithit does PCBs
05:59.45Twingycorrect
05:59.51Ralithso it can't import models.
05:59.57Ralithdamn.
06:00.16Twingyit's already in bugzilla as a feature request
06:00.27Ralithno plans for including BRL-CAD databases in the list of supported formats in the near future?
06:00.42Twingysupporting brl-cad would be quirky
06:00.54Twingyyou would be better off exporting dxf/stl from brl-cad
06:01.13Twingyassuming brl-cad dxf/stl is working now
06:02.39Twingyjust to give you an arbitrary date, let's say beginning of summer for dxf/stl support
06:05.33Ralithexporting STL is lossy
06:05.45Ralithyou can't represent anything smooth
06:08.09Twingyright, but keep in mind gcode natively only supports lines and arcs
06:08.57Twingysome of the objects in brl-cad could be turned into piece wise arcs, but for the most part it will have to be tesselated anyway to get into arcs or lines
06:09.04Ralithstl doesn't support arcs.
06:09.14Twingyexactly
06:09.20Twingyso if brl-cad has a nurbs surface
06:09.33Ralithit can be much more closely approximated with arcs than with lines.
06:09.46Twingythe spline will have to undergo decomposition into bezier curves, then into bernstein polynomials, then into arcs
06:09.52Ralithor, at worst, approximated with similar accuracy with much less data.
06:10.36Twingyit would be a great deal of code to recognize the 20 or 30 primitives in brl-cad and figure out how to decompose those into arcs properly
06:10.56Twingyespecially with boolean operations
06:11.19Twingybrl-cad ray traces the CSG to get the final result
06:11.29Ralithand you could take advantage of that raytracing.
06:11.38Twingyand ray tracing is tesselating
06:11.40Ralithyou don't have to reinvent the wheel.
06:11.53Twingyhow is ray tracing different from tesselating?
06:12.06Ralithuh, it's a different thing
06:12.13Twingythink about it...
06:12.14Ralithhow is solving a formula different from taking a square root?
06:12.26Twingyso with ray tracing you have a grid of rays
06:12.35Twingyand the result is a collection of intersection points
06:12.44Twingythe intersection points form a point cloud or mesh
06:12.48Raliththere's significantly more to it than that :P
06:12.54Ralithnot only that, who said anything about a grid?
06:12.54Twingythe mesh is a tesselated representation of the implicit geometry
06:13.14RalithBRL-CAD gives you a lot more than a point when you get a rayhit.
06:13.19TwingyRalith: because you are not beam tracing, a ray is infinitely thin
06:13.32Ralithmore than enough to accurately place circular arcs, in fact.
06:14.01TwingyI disagree, because you can end up resulting in moire and aliasing artificacts
06:14.31Twingyyou have to choose the density of your grid of rays
06:14.40Twingyif it is not high enough you lose detail
06:15.36Twingynow, you could "interpolate" the results returned from the ray intersections, but you are still not exactly representing the implicit geometry
06:15.46Twingybecause ray tracing is a form tessellating
06:16.32Twingyas the grid density approaches infinity the point cloud approaches and implicit representation
06:18.24TwingyI think you can clearly see this as an Inductive Proof
06:19.29TwingyDanielFalck: did gtk compile?
06:32.29DanielFalckI got it to build, but I misconfigured it - I have gtk libs for the old fink build along with the new one
06:32.48DanielFalckI'm not even sure how to clean it up and get things linked right
06:33.15DanielFalckI just went through this with the latest version of tcl/tk and got things sorted out
06:33.23DanielFalckbut it takes me a while
06:34.10DanielFalckTwingy: visit #cam if you feel like it.  there are some of us working on/playing with other os cam systems
06:34.22Twingyk
06:34.42DanielFalckDan Heeks has some interesting stuff as does crotchet
07:02.46Twingylooks like he is making progress
07:02.54Twingyhow long has he been at it?
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07:14.28DanielFalckI'm not sure
07:14.45DanielFalckhe programs cam for a living
07:23.35Twingyso if I put him out of business that would be bad for him
07:24.13Twingyisn't he kind of hurting himself by giving stuff away for free if he is trying to make money off of it to survive?
07:24.38DanielFalckI'm not sure of the motivation. You'll have to ask hime
07:24.40DanielFalckhim
07:30.18DanielFalckI'm just glad he's willing to share
07:31.53Twingyyou can't beat free :)
07:32.27DanielFalckthe other guy I mentioned, crotchet, is a machinist who has learned to program c++
07:33.16DanielFalckhe's ported over the old apt360 fortran code (in C, not C++) and has a nice app called aptsketch, that I actually use for making gcode
07:33.42DanielFalckit uses gtkmm and opengl
07:34.21DanielFalckI'm just a rookie,learning python
07:44.24Twingyk, I'm off to bed
07:44.55DanielFalckit was good chatting with you
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17:21.03starseekerDanielFalck: Is there a link for aptsketch anywhere?
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18:02.40DanielFalckhttp://sourceforge.net/projects/aptos/
18:04.04DanielFalckanother interesting project:
18:04.05DanielFalckhttp://heekscnc.blogspot.com/
18:19.28CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33525 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/incrTcl/compat/ (43 files in 2 dirs):
18:19.28CIA-65BRL-CAD: add the tcl/tk headers for 8.4 since if we're compiling against a system 8.4, we
18:19.28CIA-65BRL-CAD: still need access to tclInt.h and friends (which are not publicly installed
18:19.28CIA-65BRL-CAD: headers). put them in a version-specific 'compat' directory that we can later
18:19.28CIA-65BRL-CAD: refer to via cppflags.
18:19.52CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33526 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/incrTcl/Makefile.am: include compat in the dist
18:27.02CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33527 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
18:27.02CIA-65BRL-CAD: if we're compiling against a system 8.4, use the newly added 'compat' headers in
18:27.02CIA-65BRL-CAD: src/other/incrTcl/compat/8.4 so that we get the proper internal/private tcl/tk
18:27.02CIA-65BRL-CAD: headers. this makes the entire compilation succeed using system tcl/tk with our
18:27.04CIA-65BRL-CAD: bundled incrTcl, toggled off of the TCL_8_4_HEADERS conditional. also makes it
18:27.06CIA-65BRL-CAD: so we can remove that tcl+itcl sanity check section that forced our tcl/tk if
18:27.08CIA-65BRL-CAD: not 8.5.
18:39.34CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33528 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: remove some dead logic, update the comment about -fast (it's because of aliasing), and remove the silly HAVE_BRLCAD conditional.
18:53.19CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33529 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: too vague a task and it's an on-going one
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20:49.05mafmhi
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22:53.18brlcadhowdy mafm
22:53.24brlcad(woo hoo, tv is now up on the wall)
22:56.17mafmburn it down! it only tells you lies :P
22:58.57Ralithhehe
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23:18.38IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/project-cassandra.png  <--- cassandra coming along :)
23:28.38brlcadmafm: hehe, so true
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090112

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090112

00:09.11mafm_sleepy time, night!
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02:03.24*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.138.106)
02:13.08starseekerhas figured out how to get videos onto rockbox Ipod <evil grin> :-)
02:19.43Ralithyou can get videos onto rockbox anything
02:19.45Ralithit's pretty insane
02:19.57Ralitheven my 4-tone-grayscale iaudio can do video thanks to rockbox.
02:20.28madantis flabbergasted
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07:02.56CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33530 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (bwish/main.c mged/setup.c):
07:02.56CIA-65BRL-CAD: Itcl_Init() leaves initialization in a bad state if it fails causing a failure
07:02.56CIA-65BRL-CAD: the second time through during initialization (we try once as-is, then once
07:02.56CIA-65BRL-CAD: again after setting up auto_path and friends via tclcad_auto_path(). this gets
07:02.57CIA-65BRL-CAD: rid of the failure and associated failure message.
07:06.27CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33531 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (bwish/main.c mged/setup.c): comment on the stupid Itcl_Init() behavior for comprehending down the road.
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10:57.31mafmhallo
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11:24.37d-loMernin all.
11:39.24mafmmernin :)
13:32.49brlcadhowdy
13:33.12d-lohowdy howdy
13:33.22d-lostarseeker: How did the Photoshoot go?
13:33.52archiviststarseeker pr0n?
13:33.59d-lobrlcad: I can't remember, did you get the D40 or D50?
13:34.27d-loarchivist: Depends on your definition of that.  But it involves sexy army tanks :)
13:34.38archivist:)
13:37.10archivistIm slowly researching one of the first tank experiments which was a local event
13:38.11brlcadd-lo: D90
13:38.27d-loah, Samsonite.  I was way off.
13:39.20brlcadsamsonite?
13:39.32d-lobad joke from 'Dumb and Dumber'
13:40.17brlcadah, heh, right
13:47.04CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33532 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
13:47.04CIA-65BRL-CAD: the incrTcl pathing issues should now all be fixed when using system tcl/tk.
13:47.04CIA-65BRL-CAD: the result, though, is that now there is some other initialization bug that
13:47.04CIA-65BRL-CAD: causes mged to crash (bwish works) inside the display manager on X11 calls.
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14:13.18starseekerd-lo:  quite well, actually
14:13.26starseekerarchivist:  tank pr0n :-)
14:13.32archivist:)
14:13.55starseekernice tank photos, was working on them this weekend actually
14:13.55archivistyou got mk1 permission?
14:14.04starseekermk1?
14:14.26starseekermark 1 you mean?
14:14.33archivistthe very early ww1 tank
14:14.41starseekerwe switched to the Mark VIII
14:14.56starseekerhave the handbook of the guts - very useful for this sort of thing :-)
14:15.25starseekerearly British docs are stuck in their National Archives, but the Mark VIII was produced in the US :-)
14:15.35starseekerbetter odds
14:16.15archivistI have to go to London sometime to rummage for the prototype stuff
14:17.26starseekercool
14:18.03starseekerIf there is a museum somewhere that has plans for the Mark I or Mark IV and wouldn't slap copyright on any copies, that would be interesting
14:18.07archivistholiday work, when I get a new round tuit
14:18.12starseekernods
14:18.45archivistdifferen museums have different attitudes
14:19.26starseekerright - but it wouldn't make much sense for an open source project to work hard to get ahold of photographs that can't be used in an open source context
14:19.44starseekerarchivist:  Your work might have more flexibility though
14:20.22archivistits all about generating money to sustain the museums
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14:20.40starseekerOh, sure
14:20.48starseekerI never said I didn't understand the motivation
14:21.05starseekerbut I happen to think it's one of the things tax dollars are SUPPOSED to be used for
14:21.06archivistmy project will be a small book with local interest
14:21.39archivistUK museums are tending to be independent charities these days
14:21.46starseekeryou never know ;-)
14:23.43starseekerthat's a pity :-(
14:23.44archivistamongst the old computer collectors there is a lot of scanning and placing online going on. dont see too many companies beating them up yet
14:24.16archivistone or two are positively helping
14:24.50starseekerthe distinction between "Can sue successfully, but aren't" and "Can't sue successfully" is important to a lot of folks in the open source world
14:25.12starseekeralthough the legal system is so murky sometimes I think the distinction is a bit fuzzy - see SCO :-/
14:26.05archivistI watched SCO from the beginning
14:26.55starseekeralmost wondered with that latest bit of news if SCO is deliberately trying to be the biggest jerk possible to the open source world, just for the sake of being a jerk
14:27.17starseekerselling off the remaining actual assets simply to pursue litigation... ugh
14:27.23starseekerfeels queasy
14:30.17CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33533 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: minor comment
14:30.41archivistsome just dont know when they are beaten
14:31.18starseekerpredicts some flash based game where zombies wearing the SCO logo are chasing after penguins
14:31.27archivisthehe
14:43.24``Eriksco was a good guy in the early 80's :( it was the caldera buyout and change in mgmt that made 'em suck
14:44.03``Erikand the chief jerk, darl mcbride, had fucked up a slew of other companies before the one we just happened to notice
16:58.52CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33534 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (4 files in 3 dirs): all text files should have a trailing newline for parsing/portability/consistency.
17:03.47CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33535 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/ (2 files in 2 dirs): added missing newline
17:08.38CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33536 10/rt^3/trunk/autogen.sh: sync from upstream (brlcad module) to get the lastest changes from sebastian.
17:11.01*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
17:17.33CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33537 10/rt^3/trunk/misc/ (footer.sh header.sh indent.sh template.sh): sync template and indent scripts with brlcad module
17:18.13CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33538 10/brlcad/trunk/ (2134 files in 148 dirs): a dozen days overdue, but welcome in the Ox. hail 2009.
17:18.46*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1128564870.dsl.bell.ca)
17:19.44IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/stealth.png   <---- your svn code as of an hour or so ago :)
17:20.55CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33539 10/rt^3/trunk/ (193 files in 22 dirs): welcome our Ox overlords. update copyright to 2009.
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17:27.52brlcadIriX64: the picture doesn't change.  please no more pictures of havoc.
17:28.06IriX64noted thank you
17:28.58IriX64if i take that to russia, think they'll give me a ride in it :)
17:30.25IriX64that tkhtml3 install thing, any word?
17:30.40CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33540 10/brlcad/trunk/ (INSTALL doc/README.MacOSX): include some additional documentation on enabling 64-bit compilation and details on universal builds for mac
17:31.52brlcadI need more detail than "that tkhtml3 install thing"
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17:36.36IriX64ill re-install and pastebin the error messsages
17:40.41IriX64http://rafb.net/p/gb5sTW33.html  <--- install time error
17:41.31IriX64wasn't sure i should let you see it, my system is not normal but it is unixish in nature
17:46.01brlcadIriX64: what's not normal is that you still say that same "my system is not normal" disclaimer after what? 3 years?
17:46.49IriX64heh im "trying" to make it normal :)
17:47.43IriX64figured you'd see cygdrive and be all over me :)
17:48.37brlcadhave I ever been?
17:48.45brlcadyou say that every time too
17:48.56IriX64much to your credit as a channel op, you have ;)
17:49.45brlcadi've not been on you for running cygwin, I've been on you for random chatter in the channel and useless pastebins
17:50.10IriX64true, ill avoid usefull pastebens like the plague
17:50.38brlcadas for that install error in tkhtml3, looks like maybe you're compiling against a system Tcl/Tk?
17:50.56IriX64btw cp tclsh.exe tclsh85.exe works wonders as a workaround
17:51.01IriX64no your tcl tk
17:51.44IriX64i tried system 8.5.5, error is still there and at run time you guys tell me you have 8.5.5 but we need exactly whatever your version is
17:51.54brlcadthen it looks like Tcl didn't compile correctly
17:52.50IriX64i deinstalled my 8.5.5
17:53.16IriX64much to your credit tho configure found it and everyybody was happy at build time
17:53.59brlcadwhat?
17:54.15IriX64tcl/tk8.5.5
17:54.57brlcadyou're not making sense
17:55.03brlcadis that a install failure or is it not?
17:55.17brlcadthe pastebin indicates that it cannot run tclsh
17:55.59brlcadit's failing inside the init.tcl initial load script, which shouldn't happen unless you've got other parts of tcl messed up
17:56.25brlcadit could be a tcl build system bug, in which case you should report it to their tracker
17:56.53IriX64understood
17:57.55brlcadcan even give them the exact same pastebin text for the bug report
17:58.07IriX64thanks i will
17:58.10brlcadcould try installing tclsh first, then see if it runs
17:58.22brlcadi.e. just run "tclsh" .. see if it gives you that message
17:59.01IriX64i get the % prompt
17:59.38brlcadis that the tclsh that was just built?
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18:00.02brlcadyukonbob: wb
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18:02.26IriX64tclsh8.5 gives me a % prompt yes
18:06.20brlcadthen it sounds like it's something screwy probably in the tkhtml build
18:06.30brlcadnot a tcl build bug
18:06.35IriX64agreed
18:07.09brlcadprobably something with either TCL_LIBRARY or TCLLIBPATH on that line
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20:50.08IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/jeep.png  <--- no more havoc's :)
20:51.21louipcIriX64: I think the point is unless you have something original or revolutionary screenshots are not welcome
20:51.28louipc:P
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22:53.12IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/poolio.png  <--- something new :)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090113

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090113

00:00.20*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
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01:43.59mafmbye
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11:46.41mafmhi
12:07.55brlcadhowdy mafm!
12:09.34mafmsup
12:09.51mafmhave you smashed your tv set yet? :)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090114

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090114

00:06.16mafmnight
01:25.14*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-150.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
01:32.40CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33541 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: few ideas that have been on mind for a while. vrml importer, brl-cad taxonomy document, and incremental raytrace-based display manager interface.
01:51.45CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33542 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/html/manuals/mged/mged2.html: Fix problem with eto specification as reported in bug #2120094
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03:27.28starseekergrumbles... cating mpg files together results in something that doesn't work on rockbox, and rockbox doesn't (yet) support movie playlists out of box
03:28.12starseekerdecides to go for broke and build latest svn with patch, and crosses fingers he doesn't brick anything...
03:37.13Dr_Phreakensteincating most types of mpeg files produces something that does not work on most things.
03:37.36Dr_Phreakensteinmain exception is if it is a streamrip
03:37.54Dr_Phreakensteineven then, you must rebuild the index
03:38.15Dr_Phreakensteinmencoder of the mplayer package may be your friend on this
03:38.41Dr_Phreakensteinotherwise, try kino
03:39.10Dr_Phreakensteinhttp://www.kinodv.org/
03:39.31Dr_Phreakenstein(returns to topic)
03:39.35Ralithstarseeker: you could just concat them with mencoder
03:39.50Dr_Phreakensteincorrect
03:41.38Dr_Phreakensteinshould look something like
03:42.08Dr_Phreakenstein#mencoder file1.mpg file2.mpg -o outfile.mpg -oac copy -ovc copy
03:43.14Dr_Phreakensteinanyone ever research STEP, or read the STEP application handbook?
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04:14.29brlcadstarseeker: while it might work for some combinations of mpg's, I can't imagine that cat'ing together two random mpg files would work on most players
04:14.43brlcadinvalid timestamps and sync blocks
04:14.53brlcaddifferent encoding settings
04:15.26brlcadDr_Phreakenstein: we've done a lot more than research it
04:15.47brlcaddeveloping a step importer is one of our top priorities
04:16.37brlcadhave not read the step application handbook, though, I must admit
04:17.07brlcaddownloads
04:21.21Dr_Phreakensteinnice
04:22.13Dr_Phreakensteinthe one i am refering to was found at
04:22.15Dr_Phreakensteinhttp://www.tc184-sc4.org/SC4_Open/SC4_Standards_Developers_Info/Files/STEP_application_handbook_63006.pdf
04:22.16brlcadwe have most of the rest of the spec, though, ap's 203, 214, 22, 23, 24, and 11
04:22.25brlcadnods, already have it
04:22.38Dr_Phreakensteinfigured that was it
04:22.52Dr_Phreakensteini just got it myself
04:23.00Dr_Phreakensteinlooks like a nice little read
04:23.17Dr_Phreakensteinyou mentioned an importer...
04:23.28Dr_Phreakensteinwhat about export?
04:23.38brlcadeventually, ideally yes
04:23.52brlcadfirst priority is on an importer though
04:24.07Dr_Phreakensteini do not know, but i should think that one would facilitate the other, to an extent
04:24.17brlcadit's actually a funded priority, importer should be completed sometime this year
04:24.29brlcadto a limited extent
04:24.35brlcadit's a lot easier to make an exporter
04:25.06brlcadmore grunt code in an exporter and basic architecting to let the user specify what format they want exported
04:26.34brlcadexample, say you have a model of just an implicit sphere and a box that overlap with a CSG operation to subtract one from the other
04:27.02brlcadusing 203 and 214, we 'could' (and ideally by default will) export exactly that, preserving our data exactly
04:27.22brlcadyet that's not something most CAD systems will grok
04:29.16brlcadother options might be to output spline-surface brep with csg operations, evaluated spline-surface brep, evaluated polygonal brep, volumetric, among others
04:29.58Dr_Phreakensteini see
04:30.48Dr_Phreakensteinwell, brlcad is my cad of choice, except maybe qcad for simple 2d, until i get better with brlcad
04:31.14Dr_Phreakensteinprimarily interested in not losing any data to go to a postprocessor
04:32.00Dr_Phreakensteinshould not need much to load that into a CAM system and send to machine as STEP-NC
04:32.07brlcadDr_Phreakenstein: so you're interesting in working on the step exporter? :)
04:32.30brlcadthinks you should 'go for it' ;)
04:34.28RalithSTEP-NC?
04:34.32brlcadbe glad to help out any way I can if you do get started on it
04:34.55brlcadlooking to use the NIST toolkit at least for importing -- not sure how helpful it would be for export
04:37.36Dr_Phreakensteinwell, i may not be quite up for it
04:37.46Dr_Phreakensteinstill learning brlcad myself
04:38.12Dr_Phreakensteinnot saying no, i just do not want to commit to something unrealistic
04:39.08brlcadunderstandable
04:39.19brlcadcan you code?
04:40.54Dr_Phreakensteinlearning python
04:40.55brlcadthe "learning brl-cad" part is a never-ending process (i've been 'learning' it for 10 years and don't know it all)
04:41.22brlcadjust depends where you draw the line and what to chew off when
04:41.27Dr_Phreakensteinat over 5 million lines, i should think not
04:41.29Dr_Phreakensteintrue
04:41.38brlcadit's actually only about 1 million lines
04:41.56brlcadjust barely over 1
04:46.51brlcad(don't count the sources in src/other/ and regress/ -- they're 3rd party bundled dependencies and long regression scripts)
04:47.12brlcadcan run sh/enumeration.sh to get more details if you have a source checkout
04:47.26Dr_Phreakensteini ran it, and it failed
04:47.41brlcadoh?
04:47.51Dr_Phreakensteini used find, grep, and wc
04:48.50IriX64http://rafb.net/p/grYR4Y43.html    <--- this at install time, i was hoping it was fixed since last i reported it
04:49.51Dr_Phreakensteincat `find -type f|grep -v .svn`|wc -l
04:49.56Dr_Phreakensteinthat's what i used
04:50.33brlcadIriX64: we talked about that just *yesterday*
04:51.16brlcadso stop pasting it unless you figure something new out
04:51.31Dr_Phreakensteinon svn 33542
04:51.39brlcadDr_Phreakenstein: which is why you're about 4 million lines off ;)
04:51.53Dr_Phreakensteini would suppose so
04:52.02Dr_Phreakenstein5644578
04:52.13Dr_Phreakensteinthat is the dumb counting method
04:52.13brlcadcan you paste the output of enumeration.sh ?
04:52.18Dr_Phreakenstein...
04:53.07Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
04:53.08Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
04:53.10Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
04:53.11Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
04:53.13Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
04:53.14Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
04:53.16Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
04:53.17Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
04:53.19Dr_Phreakenstein...
04:53.26Dr_Phreakenstein2374 BRL-CAD Files
04:53.26brlcadwell that much looks okay
04:53.28Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
04:53.29Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
04:53.30Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
04:53.32Dr_Phreakensteinexpr: syntax error
04:53.33Dr_Phreakensteinexpr: syntax error
04:53.37Dr_Phreakensteinexpr: syntax error
04:53.38Dr_Phreakensteindc: stack empty
04:53.41Dr_Phreakensteindc: stack empty
04:53.42Dr_Phreakensteindc: stack empty
04:53.44Dr_Phreakensteindc: stack empty
04:53.50Dr_Phreakensteindc: stack empty
04:53.54Dr_Phreakensteindc: stack empty
04:53.56Dr_Phreakenstein-----------------------------------------
04:53.58Dr_Phreakenstein--          LINE COUNT TOTALS          --
04:54.02Dr_Phreakenstein-----------------------------------------
04:54.04Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
04:54.06Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
04:54.08Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
04:54.10Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
04:54.12Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
04:54.14Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
04:54.16Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
04:54.18Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
04:54.21brlcadso cascade counting failure
04:54.22Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
04:54.26Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
04:54.28Dr_Phreakenstein1564461 3rd Party Code (not counted above)
04:54.30Dr_Phreakenstein(edited for some redundancy)
04:54.54Dr_Phreakensteinnote, I am using amd64 arch
04:54.58brlcadbtw, pastebin would probably be better for most things over just a handful of lines (for future ref) ;)
04:55.04brlcadthat wouldn't matter
04:55.12brlcadit's just a shell script
04:55.25Dr_Phreakensteinwell, dc often fails
04:55.32Dr_Phreakensteinhave not investigated why
04:55.58brlcaddc is because the expr's fail
04:56.40brlcadexpr's fail because a previous count failed
04:57.40brlcadaha, that's right around where it starts using awk
04:57.44brlcaddo you have awk?
04:58.15brlcadand is this a linux amd64 or some other OS?
04:58.46Dr_Phreakensteinyes, gentoo
04:59.06Dr_Phreakensteinoh, yes
04:59.14Dr_Phreakensteincan't get by w/out it
04:59.48Dr_PhreakensteinGNU Awk 3.1.6
05:02.39Dr_Phreakenstein<brlcad> thanks for tip on pastebin; i've never used it
05:02.52brlcadsure
05:03.02brlcadthere are a bunch of them
05:03.46brlcade.g., one at http://paste.bzflag.bz/ and ..
05:03.50brlcad~pastebin
05:03.50ibot[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste
05:03.56brlcadfew others
05:04.17Dr_Phreakensteinthanks
05:04.18brlcadthe .com is probably the worst
05:04.40Dr_Phreakensteinin terms of over use?
05:05.16brlcadoveruse (lag, spam), often unreachable on various networks due to blocks/abuse
05:07.43Dr_Phreakensteinnice
05:07.55Dr_Phreakensteinwill use in future
05:11.13CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33543 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/enumerate.sh: try a few minor portability tweaks for the 'sum' function
05:11.25brlcadgive that a try
05:14.05CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33544 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Robert Penny reported and fixed a minor documentation bug in the mged tutorial where the 'in' command had wrong values listed (two transposed params)
05:17.30Dr_Phreakensteinhttp://pastebin.ca/1307831
05:18.21Dr_Phreakensteinexpires 1 hr
05:23.03brlcadno matter, a "no change" would have worked too in that particular instance ;)
05:23.25brlcadguessing it's the sum function, just not sure where/why yet
05:23.37brlcadadding in some debug
05:28.45Dr_Phreakensteinwill investigate
05:37.37Dr_Phreakenstein<brlcad>please see http://pastebin.ca/1307843
05:37.48Dr_Phreakensteinturns out you have to run it from that dir
05:38.03Dr_Phreakensteinplease compare counts to yours to make sure they are good
05:40.37Dr_Phreakensteini was running as sh/enumerate.sh from brlcad directory
05:41.37brlcadthat's how I usually run it actually
05:41.42brlcadbut that does help
05:41.43CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33545 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/enumerate.sh: add some basic debugging to help isolate a problem with the tabulations on linux from Dr_Phreakenstein, can run via: DEBUG=1 sh/enumerate.sh
05:47.40Dr_Phreakensteinok, this does not make sense...
05:47.54Dr_Phreakensteini ran it from brlcad root...
05:48.48Dr_Phreakensteinwith debug, it got same count and no errors (well, + 8 lines, but that is expected from change. other count was off many thousands)
05:49.53brlcadwhat are your debug lines?
05:52.38Dr_Phreakensteinhttp://pastebin.ca/1307850
05:55.29brlcadhuh, that is very odd
05:55.43brlcadi mean, it looks like what I'd expect
05:56.20brlcadeverything looks fine other than it being a clean checkout count so generated files aren't counted
06:00.00brlcadwhat's odd is that it suddenly works now.. (does it work without DEBUG=1?)
06:00.07Dr_Phreakensteinchecking
06:02.11Dr_Phreakensteinsure 'nuff, looks good
06:02.17brlcadhuh!
06:06.11brlcadthen out of ideas beyond a shell bug or some wierd typo somewhere (which I don't see)
06:07.26Dr_Phreakensteinneither do i
06:07.39brlcadand I must fold it up for tonight though, too .. early meeting later today
06:07.45brlcadat least it runs now
06:08.14Dr_PhreakensteinI am no sh wizard, but i vote to leave debug in there, since magic seems to work, now
06:08.26Dr_Phreakensteinhave fun at meeting
06:11.05brlcadyeah, will need some more work
06:11.16brlcadmaybe more pervasive debug statements
06:11.21brlcadanyways, cheers!
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11:32.29mafmhi
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12:51.28brlcadhowdy howdy
12:52.12brlcadmafm: tv is doing just fine, great actually
12:53.46archivistbecoming a couch potato
12:54.57mafmbut probably is telling you lies anyway :D
12:58.02brlcadthe lies are on par with the ones I hear in real life
12:58.37brlcadmostly background noise while I code unless I'm watching a movie (which is what I do most of the time with it)
13:00.44brlcadwow, nice .. http://www.qtsoftware.com/about/news/lgpl-license-option-added-to-qt
13:08.34alex_jonithat should boost things
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13:22.17mafmin the last years I forgot about tv, I lived in houses without it and not missing it much, it's strange
13:23.35mafmhmm, LGPL as in linking non-open programs?
13:24.41mafmso it's now mostly like GTK
13:30.44starseeker's jaw drops
13:30.53starseekerUh....
13:31.11starseekerDidn't that just blow Trolltech's business model away?
13:31.20starseekeror Nokia's now I guess?
13:32.53starseekergleefully contemplates an unholy mating of QT and Ogre3d
13:33.57starseekerglares at rockbox's player - for some reason mpg's combined with mencoder don't give back audio
13:34.13starseekerDr_Phreakenstein: thanks, that should have worked
13:34.51starseekeralmost bricked ipod trying to build and install custom version - apparently it's VERY sensitive to which compiler version...
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13:35.28starseekeralright, nevermind
13:35.38starseekerprepares to launch back into the fray
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16:24.52CIA-44BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33546 10/brlcad/trunk/src/shapes/picket_fence.c: Initialization not needed on these character arrays (i.e. they're inititialized below before being used). Besides, windows doesn't like it.
16:28.18CIA-44BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33547 10/brlcad/trunk/src/shapes/picket_fence.c: msvc probably didn't like that they were empty initializers. give them a value and it should be happy.
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16:43.20CIA-44BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33548 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (inside.c typein.c): Add code to prevent interrupts during database writes.
17:03.19CIA-44BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33549 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (Makefile.am arbs.c cmd.c cmd.h inside.c setup.c typein.c): Mods to use libged's ged_in and ged_inside functions.
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17:21.54CIA-44BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33550 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: mged on mac crashes if you link against the system tcl/tk libs
17:24.33CIA-44BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33551 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: the fast4-g line skipping bug was fixed a while back
17:27.13CIA-44BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33552 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS:
17:27.15CIA-44BRL-CAD: pipe primitive no longer calls dynamic allocation during run-time thanks to
17:27.17CIA-44BRL-CAD: john. remove the lingering default doesn't work (because it seems to work just
17:27.19CIA-44BRL-CAD: fine and that code has changed a fair bit). also, rtwizard seems to be working
17:27.21CIA-44BRL-CAD: just fine now too.
17:30.18CIA-44BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33553 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Updates to get things compiling on Windows.
17:35.57CIA-44BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33554 10/brlcad/trunk/ (BUGS src/tclscripts/mged/text.tcl):
17:35.59CIA-44BRL-CAD: mged should read just fine from stdin now with the handful of trickeries going
17:36.01CIA-44BRL-CAD: on. this also fixes one remaining bug when reading in from stdin via gets --
17:36.03CIA-44BRL-CAD: was getting an error of: can't rename to "execute_cmd_save": command already
17:36.05CIA-44BRL-CAD: exists
17:39.26brlcadhowdy madant !
17:40.23madanthi sean :)
17:40.32madanthappy new year
17:40.36brlcadlikewise
17:40.40brlcadhow's the break?
17:40.55madantawesome till now..
17:41.07brlcadclasses starting back up?
17:41.18madantnot yet
17:41.39madantwent for some climbing towards the end of the year
17:42.09madantsports climbing mostly .. was fun.. i think i have wasted enough time loitering around enjoying though :D
17:42.14brlcadso then what's the "till now"?
17:42.24brlcadnods
17:42.50madanti might be going to an Institute for a couple of months to get exposure into some sustainable technologies
17:43.25madantand I have an Interview from a B-school coming up towards the end of March..
17:43.54madantImagine 200 people getting selected out of 2,80,000 :D
17:44.41madantand in the middle of all this I haven't been able to do a single productive thing since september :D
17:44.50madanthow is the winter in US ?
17:45.27brlcadbrick
17:45.31brlcader, brisk :)
17:46.40brlcadproductive, but so much going on that it's tricky to stay focused on any one task for very long
17:47.02madant:D I live pretty close to the equator .. so almost no winter here..
17:47.31brlcadnods
17:47.32madantin the end to create anything of value one has to stay focused on one task for long
17:48.09madantgeometry service coming up good ?
17:48.15brlcadused to have that back in the day, but seasons are nice for mixing things up every now and then (e.g., easier to code in the winter when there's really not much more you could do outside)
17:48.25brlcadyeah, steady pace there
17:48.46brlcadlibged's getting tied back into mged now, which should flesh out any remaining issues
17:49.18brlcadthe service daemon is just about ready to go on-line for simple read/write testing probably in a week or so
17:49.30madantwhat about mafm's ide work
17:50.21brlcadnot much has changed there
17:50.30brlcadit's about where he left it
17:50.54brlcadthat's one of a hundred projects I'd love to be working on
17:51.14madanthmm.. I am really hopeful of spending at least 15 hours per week on libpc
17:51.24mafmide?
17:51.35brlcadthe new gui
17:51.36madantoops i meant gui :D
17:52.11brlcadyou going to apply to gsoc again if we participate again?
17:52.32mafmme?
17:52.36madantdon't know about my student status
17:52.52mafmI don't think that I'll be eligible anymore
17:52.55brlcadan informal announcement just went out a couple days ago saying it's on again for this year
17:53.02brlcadmafm: oh?
17:53.12brlcadthat partly sucks :)
17:53.21madantyeah i saw the group post.. lh trying to publicise :D
17:53.24brlcadi mean great that you're done and all, if that's why :)
17:53.55brlcadcourse, you could always continue as a mentor too ;)
17:54.06madantI would love to take part again.. but i think i would love to work on it before .. morally feels odd if i only work during SoC :P
17:54.11mafmI'm finishing the project and I have to defend it, but I don't know if that will count
17:54.39madanthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Institutes_of_Management is the B-school i was talking about :)
17:54.41brlcadmafm: will you still be a full-time student by the time the program begins?
17:54.47mafmif not I could be mentor I guess, but I don't have much experience as mentor
17:55.17mafmbegins by the end of may? I don't think so, but not sure
17:55.24madantwould we be getting more slots this year ? i mean more students compared to last ?
17:55.59brlcadmadant: so why wouldn't yout have student status?  those are business schools
17:56.24madantyeah i will have student status if I clear the interview :)
17:56.53madantbasically .28 million people wrote in.. they have shortlisted 800 :D
17:57.11brlcadand no, wouldn't likely accept more slots -- that pretty much put us at effective mentoring capacity
17:57.12madantnow i have to clear the interview to be in the 170 or so :D
17:57.58madantcan imagine.. without good mentoring especially in such a huge code base things can go pretty crazy
17:57.59brlcadtotally depends on the students, but if you guys had been more 'green', it could have been pretty bad with four, or could have easily taken 8 .. but 4 people working full time is a lot of progress to review and integrate regardless
17:58.33brlcadprobably will reduce the slot count for bzflag
17:58.35mafmmore green?
17:58.48mafmimmature?
17:58.56madanti think he means active :D
17:59.11brlcadwith the weaker students there last year, six slots was too many (and we had 2X the number of mentors as here)
17:59.18brlcadgreen == inexperienced
17:59.52madanti think mentoring must be tougher than coding .
18:00.17madantI have always found checking someone else's code difficult compared to writing
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18:03.02madantlet me see how much progress I can make in the next couple of months, otherwise it would be pointless to eat up a gsoc slot @ brl-cad which some other student could use for doing some good work.
18:03.04brlcaddepends on the code and who wrote it ;)
18:03.16madant@brlcad true
18:03.43madantu must have read the beautiful code book we got last year as students ?
18:04.05brlcadsome of it was quite nice actually
18:04.40brlcadyou guys (all 4) were pretty above par in terms of readability and communication
18:05.03madantI totally loved the section on geometry where the author discusses various ways of checking for collinearity
18:05.08madantof three points
18:05.11brlcadI think that libpc is coming together quite nicely actually
18:05.34brlcadsection on geometry?
18:05.37brlcadsome book?
18:06.16madantnot a section.. a chapter.
18:07.19madant1 sec i will give the link
18:07.47brlcadan entire chapter that says two slopes are equal?
18:08.16brlcador adding two distances will give the third?
18:08.22mafmhaven't found time to read the Beautiful Code book yet
18:08.23madant:D not really he considers the comparing slopes and addition idea
18:08.24mafm:(
18:08.43madantbut then in the case of slopes there is the issue of infinite slope for a vertical line
18:08.59mafmso what's the plan for gsoc this year?
18:09.13madantand for the distances there is the case of square roots being involved and floating point considerations
18:09.50mafmanother 4 students? I might consider applying if I had the possibility, but it's not an strict requirement for my collaboration with brl-cad
18:09.53brlcadmadant: sure, but those don't mean the approach itself is flawed, they're just boundary cases that have to be dealt with on the implementation
18:10.15brlcadmafm: up to 4 (if we get accepted)
18:10.17madantexactly.. the author was just putting forward his concept of beautiful code
18:10.22mafmI don't know if I'd be prepared for being a mentor, but when I'm done with the project (3 months or so) I should have more time available and less traveling to do
18:10.23madantin the end the most elegant solution :) was finding the area of the triangle formed by the three points which is a simple determinant
18:10.28brlcadhighly expect org selections will be reduced this year
18:10.45brlcadmafm: you could specifically mentor someone working on the gui ;)
18:10.52brlcadpicking up where you left off
18:10.57madantbrlcad: why ? last year google had trouble coordinating ?
18:10.59mafmfor continuing with the gui and so on (I don't know if you're finished with the refactoring, haven't seen anything on -devel ML about that)
18:11.23mafmwell, but the applicant might be more experience than me, that's embarrasing :D
18:11.25brlcadmadant: nope, reduced economy is making spending hard for most companies
18:11.29mafmexperienced*
18:11.43brlcadthe fact that they're even going to hold a gsoc is a pretty big deal
18:12.21brlcadmafm: I haven't even gotten started on the refactoring aspect .. and the announcement today has opened up another possibility that was a non-starter previously
18:12.23madantbrlcad: maybe that's why the heads up. I mean i was kind of surprised why LH felt like spreading the news
18:13.19brlcadfor some perspective, even the Microsoft gorilla is expected to lay off about 17k people worldwide in order to safe money
18:13.22brlcader, save
18:13.23mafmyou mean the announcement of gsoc? but that's what a few days ago, wasn't it?
18:13.34madantIt didn't even strike me that they might consider not conducting it :D
18:13.50brlcadyeah
18:14.07mafmso another student would do the refactoring... of what? GUI or other internal parts?
18:14.29brlcadsome companies are in pretty big trouble .. fortunately google has been doing pretty well (the stock market reinforces that position too)
18:14.43brlcadmafm: whatever they propose
18:15.04brlcadpicking up where you left off and making more progress is all that matters.. work is work
18:15.09brlcadregardless of it being on the front-end or back-end
18:15.17mafmI see
18:15.55mafmwell, as I said I might continue my work somewhat soon
18:16.31brlcadI'd still like to see the prototype get closer to visually resembling some of the back look n' feel of the IOE, there's plenty of engine work to be done, build system integration/cleanup, command integration, ...
18:19.20madantbrlcad: this is the page and the book http://books.google.com/books?id=gJrmszNHQV4C&pg=RA7-PA519&lpg=RA7-PA519
18:19.38mafmyep, it's a lot of work really
18:21.35madantand the article was by Brian Hayes - Writing Programs for "The Book"
18:22.37madantmafm: do read Beautiful code , some parts are good :) and Best of luck for defending your thesis
18:23.44brlcadso he recommends the area approach, simple enough
18:24.01brlcadah, so this is the book google sent you guys?
18:24.06madantyep
18:24.11CIA-44BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33555 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Updates to reflect change in MGED's "inside" command.
18:24.56CIA-44BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33556 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c: Minor mod.
18:24.58mafmyes, I might... but I have to do much more reading :|
18:25.17mafmand the book is quite a brick
18:25.25mafmlast year's was more manageable
18:25.54madant:D i think this one was more enjoyable..
18:27.43mafmI have about 40 books to read, half of them somewhat urgently :|
18:28.46mafmhmm, nope, more like 10 actually -- and fortunately
18:29.02CIA-44BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33557 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: make extrude no longer crashes, bot values display with local units
18:29.56madantmy very incomplete Reading List http://dawtho.googlepages.com/ReadingList
18:34.27madantbrlcad: regarding libpc, I will go back to the list of TODOs I had at the end of gsoc and start finishing them one by one.
18:35.37brlcadmadant: sounds like a plan ;)
18:35.39mafmmadant: R, the language?
18:36.05madantthere is a boundary problem which sort of ate my head for quite sometime. I have temporarily sorted it out by storing the value of the variable before iteration
18:36.41madantbasically, if the variable value is on the boundary the iteration somehow does not go through the entire sample space.
18:36.56madantmafm: yeah
18:37.16madantmafm: The R book is not that impressive though.. very sloppily written i think
18:37.41mafmI have to deal with it in my project
18:38.08madantkewl, you are working in statistics ?
18:38.48mafmnope
18:38.57mafmwell, somewhat
18:39.14mafmnot-supervised learning
18:40.29madantso u use R for analysing the results ?
18:40.59mafmI have to translate from R and Fortran to Java
18:41.03madantmafm: is machine learning fun?
18:41.19madant:O why Java ?
18:41.23madantis javaphobic
18:41.24mafmto classify automatically objects in different clusters
18:41.31mafmrequirements of the ESA
18:42.48mafmR is a bit chaotic for big projects I think (I'm not fan of weakly-typed languages in general), but anyway it was not my decision
18:43.08mafmbut it's very handy for some tasks
18:43.25madantR is pretty neat. I mean you can pretty much do anything with it if numbers are involved
18:43.38BigATooDo any of you know where I can get a ver 7.12.2 that is compiled for x86 32bit to try?
18:44.42madantmafm: I am interested in Morphometric applications
18:45.16madantI would have loved to try some economic ( econometric ) modeling but my economic skills suck i think
18:46.13mafmBigAToo: nope, sorry
18:46.52mafmR has automatic plotting and so on, is kind of a command-line spreadsheet :D
18:47.31``Erikkinda like gnuplot? O.o
18:47.45mafmnever used it
18:48.13mafmbut you can create matrices and vectors of many types and ways and operate with functions over the data
18:48.20BigATooI have loved 7.10.4 that I have been using but would like to see the new stuff.  Thanks
18:56.00mafmBigAToo: for some reason there's only amd64, for linuz
18:58.11BigATooYep, I am going to try it on my XP VM and then try and compile it.
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19:19.20brlcadBigAToo: an updated 32-bit binary should be uploaded soon
19:20.08brlcadfrom 7.10 to 7.12 is mostly minor updates -- you can see the list of changes since 7.10.4 in the NEWS file: http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/NEWS
19:20.23brlcad~factinfo cadnews
19:20.23ibotbrlcad: there's no such factoid as cadnews
19:20.33brlcad~cadnews is http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/NEWS
19:20.34ibotbrlcad: okay
19:20.48brlcad~cadtodo is http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/TODO
19:20.49ibotbrlcad: okay
19:20.53brlcad~cadbugs is http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/BUGS
19:20.54ibotokay, brlcad
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20:54.55madantloved "Man on Wire"
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21:30.16CIA-19BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33558 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/3ptarb.c mged/cmd.c mged/cmd.h mged/setup.c): Added "more args" behavior to libged's ged_3ptarb and modified MGED to use it.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090115

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090115

00:16.29*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1128564870.dsl.bell.ca)
00:28.47IriX64http://pastebin.ca/1308591   <-- this language i don't understand
00:35.01louipc#
00:35.03louipcinvalid command name "::tcl::tm::UnknownHandler"
00:48.16brlcadlouipc: hmmmm.. i've seen that just recently
00:48.24brlcadyou just recompile from head?
00:53.15louipcbrlcad: oh nope, just pointing IriX64 to the root of his problem
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00:59.34mafmbye
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01:02.18brlcadlouipc: ah, right .. and that's where I've seen it
01:03.25brlcadi told him what to do about it but he chose to ignore/forget (probably more the latter, memory of a hamster that one)
01:06.42louipchehe
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03:26.40yukonbobevening [cad|hamster]heads
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04:33.54brlcadgets into his running wheel, *runs*
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04:57.54Dr_Phreakenstein<brlcad>sounds like good excercise
04:58.26Dr_Phreakensteinby good, i mean effective, not necessarily mentally stimulating
05:47.16yukonbobbrlcad: heh
05:47.49yukonbobnot the "head" I figured *you* would identify with... unless you're incorporating your love of fitness for the hell of it...
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06:22.49Dr_Phreakenstein(ouch, burn!)
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09:04.23*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.0 is now posted (20081108)
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11:19.46mafmhi
11:25.38brlcadhowdy
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090116

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090116

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00:35.15CIA-19BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33559 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: rewrite the implementation of BU_BITV_ZEROALL to manually zero the bytes of the bit vector so that we don't call memset directly. that way we don't have to require string.h and make the function call.
01:00.07starseekerbrlcad:  What do you think - does QT going LGPL have implications for us?
01:01.07mafm2scrap TCL! :P
01:05.20madant:D I second deTCLing :
01:09.25mafm2:)
01:09.26louipcuhhh
01:09.28mafm2night!
01:11.03louipcnight
01:35.30``Erikhttp://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1896932  pew pew
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02:18.24``ErikWOOO! mark gromley! yeah! wooo!
02:19.59``Erikgormley, rather
02:21.07Axman6anyone know if there are any plans for OpenCL use in BRL-CAD?
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02:50.40louipcAxman6: I'd guess that it's too knew for there to be any plans hah.
02:50.55Axman6bah! :P
02:51.52louipcand there are a million more important things to be done ...
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05:34.16brlcadstarseeker: yes, it does -- the license was the primary issue and a non-starter
05:36.20brlcadit could conceivably be a suitable replacement for rbgui, still using custom widgets on a 3D context though
05:36.39brlcadand still using ogre for visualization
05:40.06brlcadmadant1: you're welcome to help with that decoupling, the first tasks are to refactor out the tcl portions from libbu, libbn, and librt
05:40.38brlcadotherwise tcl isn't going away from the gui, it'll just be joined by a couple other options
05:40.52brlcadAxman6: yeah, what louipc said
05:41.19Axman6do you think it may be possible in the future? just curious
05:41.34Axman6seems like BRL-CAd could benefit a lot from it
05:41.47brlcadjust about anything is possible
05:42.20brlcadif someone wanted to work in that area, I certainly wouldn't be opposed
05:43.06brlcadbut it probably wouldn't make my top 10 or probably even my top 100 of things we need to be work on next
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06:37.35CIA-19BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33560 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): rename bu_tcl.c and bn_tcl.c to just tcl.c for consistency with the other half-dozen+ libs that already use that name.
06:37.46CIA-19BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33561 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: ws
06:41.55CIA-19BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33562 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/ (4 files in 4 dirs): more updates for moving to tcl.c for consistency
06:56.03Axman6brlcad: what sort of things would make those lists?
07:55.09RalithAxman6, he's got a personal list somewhere on brlcad.org
08:04.47madant1er.. this? http://brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html
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08:24.45Ralithmadant1, yeah, that
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08:34.15Ralithooo
08:34.18RalithOpenCSG looks cool
08:34.24Ralithbrlcad, is there anything seriously wrong with it?
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10:22.52mafmhi there
10:57.13Ralithhullo
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13:19.51brlcadRalith: performance
13:21.38starseekereyes Ayam GUI and wonders why he doesn't remember seeing this before...
13:22.06brlcadayam's been around for years
13:22.23starseekerso I see
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13:23.11starseekerwonder if their nurbs editing logic would be useful...
13:24.26brlcadfor editing, sure ;)
13:24.35brlcadthey don't do ray-tracing
13:24.44brlcadbut they probably have a tessellation routine that would be useful
13:28.19starseekerhas a feeling he stumbled onto ayam as an undergraduate...
13:28.43starseekerheh - metaballs :-) http://ayam.sourceforge.net/ni/ayam-metaflight.gif
13:31.27brlcadyep
13:31.40brlcadand they tessellate metaballs, that's a routine that could be reviewed
13:32.07brlcadthey're one of the most comprehensive primitive sets close to ours
13:32.11brlcada few we don't do even
13:32.18brlcadlike the birail
13:32.26starseekernifty
13:32.39starseekeris that openCSG doing those, or do they do their own?
13:34.30brlcaddoing what?
13:34.41brlcadthey have a csg-preview mode that uses opencsg
13:34.47brlcadhttp://ayam.sourceforge.net/docs/pics/csgex.gif
13:35.04starseekerer - doing -> "implementing core logic for"
13:35.24starseekernoticed openCSG was GPL :-/
13:37.27starseekerayam BSD licensed though... cooool
13:38.05starseekeris still excited by QT LGPL news :-)
13:39.40brlcadstarseeker: if you're interested in what openCSG does, there is better research on the matter
13:39.55brlcadsome that would be close to representing an entire vehicle
13:40.09brlcadfrom my favorite solid modeling researcher
13:40.54starseekerbrlcad:  Yes, he lept to mind the instant I saw the website :-)
13:41.15starseekeris more interested in ayam's goodies and how mappable they are to BRL-CAD
13:41.30_sushi_I went shopping with one international model and designer
13:41.37_sushi_I forgot to ask him if he does solid modeling too
13:41.39brlcadmm.. sushi
13:41.54starseekernow, now - no eating the channel denzians
13:42.22*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
13:43.14brlcadah, no .. I just thought I'd registered it
13:43.22brlcadbut that was one that someone else got to before me
13:43.34starseekerah
13:43.59BRL-CADshould stay logged in as this and act like a bot
13:44.08starseekerhehe
13:44.31starseekerwe added AI to the CAD system - it's a brlcad emulator
13:44.42tofu_sushi_: we go good together ;)
13:45.21brlcadthe algorithm that opencsg uses is actually an openly published one
13:45.22starseekersees someone did some QT + Ogre work of some sort back in Nov 08...
13:45.59starseekerchecks on what the heck the Zlib license is...
13:46.00_sushi_eats an orange to prevent oxidative stress so when he dies he will look 17 minutes younger
13:46.36starseekerah, no problem there...
13:48.17starseekerbrlcad:  pity we can't shanghai your favorite cad researcher for BRL-CAD work...
13:48.55brlcadoh, unlikely we'd be able to get him -- but we could probably get students from him under his tutelage
13:49.07brlcadheck, I love to study under him
13:49.13brlcad*I'd
13:50.16starseekerdo you have his website link handy?  I don't seem to have it bookmarked here
13:50.24brlcadjust search for "jarek"
13:50.28brlcadhe's the one and only ;)
13:50.55starseekerAh yes :-)
13:50.59brlcadnice to have a semi-unique name
13:51.12brlcadand be top of a field with your name ;)
13:51.38starseekerwonders if brlcad will try to get funded for a couple years down there :-P
13:52.55brlcadimplementing jarek's blist's into a libcsg (along with null object detection, tree contraction, and other csg hierarchy manipulations/optimization) is something I've wanted for a long time
13:53.12brlcadso much that I have a src/libcsg in my checkout that has been there for years
13:54.30brlcadmore for the csg optimizations we were talking about yesterday and having a fast isolated CSG evaluation kernel that could be optimized (e.g. for vectorization)
14:00.21starseekernods
14:01.21starseekerhow much code restructuring/refactoring do you think that would involve?
14:01.50starseekercould see something like that being as bad/worse than libged...
14:08.06brlcadhey starseeker, know what the H, W, Y, and Z stand for?  http://www.dragtimes.com/2008-Lotus-Elise-Tires-225-45R17-t28934.html
14:08.18brlcadah, and V
14:11.21starseekerI believe they relate to specific applications or performance characteristics the tires are supposed to have
14:12.43starseekermy favorite site for tire dimension info:  http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible.html
14:13.28starseekerAh, looks like those letters are speed ratings
14:13.49starseekerwinces, remembering brlcad's new car and its theoretical performance ceiling...
14:13.50brlcadyeah, just saw that
14:14.44starseeker"Uh, sir, I'm afraid I have to issue you a ticket for excessive warpage of space-time on your way to work..."
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14:46.49``Erik_wears zr's
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15:55.26mafmbye
15:55.31brlcadcya
15:55.34mafm:)
15:55.47mafmhave a nice weekend :)
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18:34.38IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/bldg391.png  <-- svn as of last night :)
18:40.56louipcIriX64: funky background. how'd you get that?
18:41.14IriX64just the way it ray traced
18:41.27louipcoh weird
18:41.30IriX64no idea where it came from
18:42.47louipclooks like a big ball to me
18:42.58louipcI think that's supposed to be the sky
18:43.22IriX64not sure but you said no more helicopters so :)
18:43.49louipcyeah we have all these models anyways, show us some original work or something
18:44.46IriX64i find it hard to draw with geometry :)
18:45.04louipcit's never too late to learn
18:45.49IriX64ill try (sometime) :)
18:45.52louipcwell, I guess I wouldn't mind seeing the bldg391 from inside that sphere hah, and let me know how you did it if you manage it
18:46.02IriX64sure
18:46.04``ErikBRL-CAD is designed for people with measuring tools, not 'artists'
18:46.08``Erikgrab a ruler and find something :D
18:46.17louipc``Erik++
18:46.20IriX64heh prefer a yard stick ;)
18:46.34``Erikwhatever gives you the numbers to type in
18:46.58``Erikhas long been tempted to grab a measuring tape and create his house
18:47.17IriX64from inside , wait a sec.. might be ablwe to do something
18:47.34louipcthat that would be cool, some architectural tools might come out of it :D
18:48.01``Erikwas hoping to arrange furniture and run some raytraces to see what it'd look like, without actually lugging crap
18:48.08louipcyeah
18:48.33louipcor playing around with renovation ideas
18:48.40``Erikmebbe some path tracing stuff to figure out where to put the tv so I don't get backlight or glare :D
18:48.47louipchaha
18:55.47IriX64trying a photonmap
18:58.02IriX64same thing, dunno how to draw inside it :)
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20:02.57``Erikphoton mapping and path tracing work best with a bounding geometry (so it can reflect light back in instead of sending 99% of photon paths into nothingness), so'z ya knowz
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090117

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090117

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02:41.09IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/os2.png :)
02:41.26IriX64no more brl-cad ;)
02:47.07IriX64maybe brl-cad on os/2 :)
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03:25.14yukonbobI have a basic q: re: lighting -- if I have objects behind the camera, is a shiny object (mirror?) in front of the camera displaying it? (/me has no brl-cad installation atm)
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04:16.30brlcadyukonbob: if you put a mirror in front of the camera, yeah that should work
04:18.24brlcadif you don't put lights into the scene, it creates default lights based on the view .. which may or may not be useful with an object behind the camera
04:18.45brlcadso you'd probably want to place the lights to properly illuminate the scene
04:40.50yukonbobbrlcad: nice... I'm not surprised it would work, but I was daydreaming again about rendering audio with brl-cad, and wondered about building a box, placing the 'camera' in the box, and generating a noise...
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18:22.45*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1128564870.dsl.bell.ca)
18:25.48IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/kman.png and also jove.png  <--- os2 pfffft  prefer modern software :)
18:27.00IriX64just a sec
18:29.06IriX64kman refuses to transfer
18:36.54IriX64i'll try later
18:38.14IriX64louipc: is it the merge command i need to retrieve my diffs?
18:48.15IriX64sphflake.png :)
18:49.57IriX64left it building last nite around 1 am, pleasantly surprised when i looked at it about an hour ago
18:50.54IriX64are you worried about "SheBitch" ?, don't be i'm not an irc warrior :)
18:51.49louipcIriX64: retrieve your diffs? Do you mean update your svn tree?
18:52.12louipcIriX64: that would be `svn update`
18:52.12IriX64yes the local tree
18:52.36IriX64so they arre downloaded automaticly when you update?
18:53.42IriX64so i could safely wipe out my tree and be back where i left off by updating what i called my tree?
18:57.08IriX64spent two hours trying to do it with patch ;)
18:59.32louipcyea
19:01.19IriX64the light dawns, i now have a tree right?
19:03.16IriX64ill get the hang of it
19:05.23IriX64at revision 33562  good stuff
19:10.56IriX64mmm if i set CFLAGS="-DBSD" it should try to compile your bsd code line right?
19:15.15IriX64brlman.in seems to ignore the --datrootdir setting  <--- is this known
19:18.31IriX64in tkhtml3... makefile.in seems to ignore the --datarootdir setting
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19:57.06IriX64btw, i don't read.
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20:33.31IriX64sphflake1.png, and sphere2.png :)
20:40.49brlcadIriX64: no, you can't and should not manually set ANY cflags like that to "compile our XXXX code"
20:42.12brlcadthat is just rediculous to assume that would do anything at all unless you see it documented somewhere in our INSTALL file
20:49.56IriX64was just wondering if it could be used as a test tool
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090118

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090118

00:06.22*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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03:14.30IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/tin.png and also tin1.png  :)
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03:35.55brlcadIriX64: you should try to fix those overlap bugs in the tinman model
03:36.12brlcadthat would be way more interesting and useful than screenshots
03:36.33brlcad~seen DanFalck
03:36.34ibotdanfalck <n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 776d 7h 57m 15s ago, saying: 'revolving the closed path would be useful too'.
03:37.06brlcad~seen DanielFalck
03:37.06ibotdanielfalck <n=dan@pool-71-111-65-232.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 6d 9h 33m 1s ago, saying: 'http://heekscnc.blogspot.com/'.
03:37.09brlcadaha
03:38.34brlcad~botmail for DanielFalck: do you still have the sketch from qcad that was causing the revolve rendering failure?
03:45.19IriX64try pinewood.png , last one for a while, i'm getting to be a nuisance i'm sure :)
03:46.26brlcadnot going to try
03:46.33brlcadbecause I already know what it'll look like
03:46.41brlcadthat's just not interesting because it's nothing new
03:47.04IriX64you're jaded remember how much fun it was when it was all new
03:47.12IriX64:)
03:47.18brlcadI'm not at all jaded
03:47.24brlcadit's not even new for you
03:47.32IriX64pinewood is new
03:47.39brlcadyou've been posting screenshots of those same models for about three years
03:47.55IriX64pinewood came out 2 months ago
03:48.04brlcadpinewood came out april of last year
03:48.16IriX64cant be
03:48.26IriX64oh wait is it on cvs too
03:48.27brlcadactually before then, it was added a month or two earlier
03:48.40brlcadso about a year old
03:48.46IriX64ah well
03:48.58brlcadyou're still nitpicking, it's not interesting as a screenshot
03:49.14IriX64ill go back to work on the overlap tool
03:49.38brlcadtry going through the mged tutorial from start to end
03:49.51brlcadif you did, you'd be able to make just about any edits including make your own models
03:50.00IriX64i never was any good at being tutored
03:50.07IriX64lack patience
03:50.20brlcadthat's a total cop out
03:50.35IriX64nah just whimisical
03:50.53brlcadyou're willing to open up random models, render them over and over, take screenshots of the same half-dozen models ... for YEARS
03:51.08IriX64i try to approach everything with a light heart
03:51.28IriX64thats me
03:51.47brlcadagain, that's just a cop out
03:51.53brlcadto self-justify
03:51.53IriX64true
03:51.59brlcadit's bullshit
03:52.21IriX64i've been known to shovel some of that :)
03:52.32brlcadhas no patience for lazy
03:52.47IriX64not lazy... undisiplined
03:52.49brlcadif you're not going to do anything productive, then you're just noise in the channel
03:53.09brlcadif you're going to just be noise in the channel, you're a net negative contributor
03:53.09IriX64ill go do something productive :)
03:53.24brlcadnegative contributions are distractions and counterproductive
03:54.24IriX64sigh maybe ill tackle that mged --version thing for real
03:57.33IriX64C:\brlcad2\bin>mged -v
03:57.33IriX64mged: illegal option -- v
03:57.33IriX64Unrecognized option (?)
03:57.33IriX64Usage:  mged [-b] [-c] [-d display] [-h] [-r] [-x#] [-X#] [database [command]]
03:57.44IriX64C:\brlcad2\bin>thats what i get at the moment
03:58.33brlcadclearly
03:58.41brlcadif it worked, nobody would have suggested you implement it
03:58.53IriX64heh true sorry for the spam
04:00.14IriX64back later, thanks for the discourse.
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06:37.14yukonbobhello, cadheads
06:38.39yukonbobfeh
06:38.46yukonbobnice scrollback
06:38.47yukonbobLOL
06:48.25Ralithwow, current g3d loads crazy-slow
06:49.51Ralithlags my system tons too
06:52.29RalithI think it made everything swap out
06:52.30Ralithhad to kill it
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20:38.20IriX64http://rafb.net/p/hfGST858.html <---- mged version :)
20:40.03IriX64drat, shoulda added __FILE__, ill leave that to you :)
20:40.35IriX64__TIME__ could be used to
20:40.42bjork_IriX64, do you run os/2?
20:41.00IriX64used to long ago but i have it running on vmware now
20:41.51IriX64warp 4
20:42.35bjork_if it free?
20:42.44IriX64os2?
20:42.49bjork_yeah
20:42.57IriX64no commercial
20:43.03IriX64had to buy it
20:44.11bjork_who uses it anymore?
20:44.19IriX64i do :)
20:44.48bjork_what for?
20:44.56IriX64playing around
20:45.59bjork_ah.
20:46.08bjork_anything worth investigating?
20:46.34louipchah probably only nostalgic value
20:47.06IriX64i just like to see the pretty face of ORION CBCS (bulettin board system) now and again
20:47.25bjork_is anyone on the bbs besides you?
20:47.37IriX64if i let them telnet in yes
20:48.04IriX64need a domain name hosting service for that tho
20:48.30louipctry dyndns.com
20:48.54IriX64used to use them when i was serious about it, pretty good
20:49.25bjork_never used a bbs before.
20:49.27bjork_what was it like? a web forum?
20:49.39IriX64thy are dinosaurs now :)
20:50.08IriX64just a place to chat, post messages and play online games
20:51.18IriX64i'm sloppy (my age is showing) forgot to put it in the help display (the v i mean)
20:57.21louipcsweeet
20:57.25louipcbjork_: telnet bbs.synchro.net
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20:59.11bjork_interesting
20:59.58louipcthe colours are garish
21:00.34bjork_whose BBS is that?
21:00.42bjork_i'm running it in xterm with reverse video.
21:00.46louipcsynchro.net's I suppose
21:01.46bjork_what were they writting in?
21:01.59louipchm?
21:02.21bjork_the bbs
21:03.08IriX64http://rafb.net/p/k78Kdv27.html sorry about the cutoff last one, this one wrapped
21:03.20louipcc++ looks like
21:03.32louipchttp://synchro.net/docs/source.html
21:03.48IriX64prefer my own :)
21:04.38IriX64gonna poperly learn how to use vim
21:05.22louipca bbs written in c++ seems weird to me for some reason
21:05.41IriX64why lora bbs was written in c++
21:06.51bjork_it looks like there're quite a few users on the BBS. i  wonder if they're all just lurkers or something.
21:12.17IriX64#ifndef __FUNCTION__       #define __FUNCTION__ __FILE__    :)
21:17.20IriX64probably not telling you anything you don't know but you have to #include brlcad_version.h for this
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090119

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090119

00:25.23*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
01:04.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33563 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/dxf/dxf-g.c: re-wrote nmg_wire_edges_to_sketch() method. It was creating two line segments for each wire edge. Now creates one line segment per wire edge and also insures that vertices are not duplicated.
01:41.31*** join/#brlcad DanielFalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-66-98.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
01:42.00DanielFalckhi brlcad
01:42.22DanielFalckI see that I have one message from botmail, but I don't know how to access it
01:42.34DanielFalckI assume it's related to dxf-g
01:42.47DanielFalckwhich I just compiled and will test out shortly
01:45.57DanielFalckok, figured out the message.
01:58.01*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1128564870.dsl.bell.ca)
01:59.02IriX64my site/castle.png  <--- svn code checked out as of 2.5 hours ago :)
01:59.21DanielFalckok. dxf-g worked for me in creating a sketch that revolves and raytraces fine.  Thanks guys
02:00.31IriX64mged -v segfaults on me tho :(
02:01.47IriX64can bu_log be used as a dropin for printf?
02:02.23*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
02:04.48IriX64ahh idea, wonder what types file,date,time are
02:04.56IriX64ill be back
02:06.49DanielFalckbrlcad: http://imagebin.org/36173
02:06.53DanielFalckmuch better
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02:12.46IriX64C:\Users\IriX64\brlcad2\src\mged>mged -v
02:12.46IriX64File mged.c Compiled Jan 18 2009 21:11:16 - Geometry Editor (MGED) Version 7.14.
02:12.47IriX641
02:12.55IriX64``Erik... ok ?
02:14.39RalithDanielFalck: pretty
02:14.56IriX64i presume you still want it to come up so i didn't play with that part
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02:45.37*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.0 is now posted (20081108)
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08:29.55_sushi_Hello
08:30.06Ralithhi
08:30.18_sushi_Do you often need to search for some identifier in BRL-CAD source, not sure how exactly it is spelled or what "polarity" it meaning has?
08:30.30_sushi_its meaning
08:30.48RalithI'm not sure I entirely follow you
08:30.56Ralithbut I find grep very handy for searching large amounts of source code.
08:31.50_sushi_does the BRL-CAD source has less than 100MB uncompressed?
08:32.42Ralithcalculating size...
08:32.51Ralithwow
08:32.55_sushi_when all *.c and *.h are concatenated...
08:32.59Raliththe full BRL-CAD svn repo is 1.1GB
08:33.07Ralithof course that's a lot more than the source code alone
08:33.07_sushi_O - M - G
08:33.09Ralithbut still.
08:33.33RalithBRL-CAD is a very large suite.
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09:24.17mafmhi
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15:07.14starseekereyes Open Asset Import Library
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15:25.30brlcadDanielFalck: awesome
15:26.56brlcadRalith: you sure that wasn't including compiled object files .. 1.1GB sounds too big
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15:48.56starseekerwow - OpenCV has an Orielly book out :-)
15:51.43starseekerrestrains self - don't need extra expense yet...
15:55.23*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
15:55.58starseekerfaces up to reality, stops looking around for interesting CAD code, and starts chores...
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17:04.41brlcadRalith: yeah, I count 197MB of source
17:06.09brlcadabout 500 if you count the svn dirs (i.e. checkout instead of export/tarball)
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20:03.34Ralithbrlcad, that was probably it; it was a very casual figure.
20:41.54*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@91.102.231.33)
20:42.15csanyipalHowdy!
20:42.56csanyipalbrlcad version 7.14.1
20:43.31csanyipalCan one to measure in MGED the distance between two points?
20:43.45csanyipalAre there any tool for that?
20:55.17*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
20:57.45brlcadcsanyipal: not directly, but it's be a pretty simple proc to do that automatically -- you can use 'nirt' to query in/out hit points along a given line (uses the line the runs through the view center in mged by default)
21:04.21csanyipalbrlcad: Thank You! :)
21:25.15brlcadnp
21:25.31brlcadthere are detailed docs on how to use and customize nirt by cliff on the website
21:27.55csanyipalbrlcad: Thank You again! :)
21:28.09csanyipalSo long!
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23:34.13mafm_night
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090120

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090120

00:32.13*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
00:50.38starseekergrins as freecad bombs trying to load the IGES openmoko model
00:50.50starseekerthat one seems to be a toughie
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02:41.02Dr_Phreakensteinwow. those openmoko files are fairly sizable
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03:43.48yukonbobhello, cadheads
03:58.23docelicaoy yb
04:29.11brlcadhowdy
04:30.44DanielFalckhi brlcad
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04:48.36brlcadhowdy DanielFalck
04:48.55brlcadglad to see the problem was found/fixed
04:49.00brlcadjohn rocks
04:52.32DanielFalckI didn't update the whole build last night - just dxf-g
04:52.40DanielFalckit worked for rendering
04:54.18DanielFalckhas there been any motion on the g-stl tesselation bug having to do with revolved entities?  I suppose I should read through the source to check.
05:07.43brlcadshouldn't have needed to update everything
05:07.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33564 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
05:07.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: bob changed the mged 'inside' command so that it'll no longer use the geometry
05:07.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: being edited as the outside solid. this removes functionality but helps make
05:07.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: mged stateless in the process (and was part of libged refactoring). reworded to
05:07.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: fit to a one-liner.
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05:14.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33565 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
05:14.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: john fixed a neat lil bug in dxf-g where it was creating double-edge sketch
05:14.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: objects when converting each wire edge. this fixes sf bug 2457527 (rendering
05:14.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: bug in revolved solid) by Dan Falck (ddfalck2002) where those same sketches
05:14.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: failed to render as a solid of revolution.
05:17.40brlcadDanielFalck: that's not so much a bug as tess support just hasn't been implemented for revolves yet because they're so new
05:18.03DanielFalckyes, sorry you are right
05:18.08DanielFalckwrong term
05:18.11brlcadrather, there was a bug where it crashes.. that was fixed, I believe .. but it still won't tessellate until someone writes that code ;)
05:18.38DanielFalckwould it help move things along if I put in a request on sourceforge?
05:19.31brlcadcouldn't hurt
05:19.43DanielFalckok, will do it. thanks
05:19.43brlcadbut would probably be more effective to just keep asking pacman87 about it
05:19.48brlcad~seen packman87
05:19.49ibotbrlcad: i haven't seen 'packman87'
05:19.53brlcad~seen pacman87
05:19.53ibotpacman87 <n=Timothy@pool-71-170-39-105.dllstx.fios.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 14d 5h 17m 40s ago, saying: 'also, if you're planning on adding that info to the windows readme, the link there is broken, too'.
05:20.19brlcadhm, looks like winter vacation isn't over yet
05:22.33DanielFalckoh, whoops I already reported it in December.
05:22.43DanielFalckPriority 6
05:22.47brlcadah, my bad
05:23.13DanielFalckI've been testing a lot of stuff lately. so many projects....
05:23.53DanielFalckemc, aptsketch, freecad, varkon, heekscad/cnc etc...
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05:25.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33566 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: ws
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05:32.14DanielFalckbrlcad: thanks
05:53.26brlcadDanielFalck: hrm, well thank you for your patience too... so much to do, so little time
05:54.04brlcada lot of the attention of late has been going into either simple maintenance or into the long-term priority efforts
06:09.00louipcDanielFalck: what would you say is the best for cad/cam on linux?
06:15.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33567 10/brlcad/trunk/ (doc/deprecation.txt include/raytrace.h src/librt/db_io.c): db_free_external was deprecated before 7.0, source recommends calling bu_free_external instead.
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12:10.18d-lomornin all
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14:25.41brlcadmorning d-lo
14:26.28d-lohowdy howdy.
14:26.56d-lohow did you weekend go?
14:27.05d-los/you/your
14:27.49brlcadgood and bad
14:28.11d-lowell thats good and sorry to hear that.
14:29.33d-lodid you get to play in the snow at all?
14:33.50brlcadnope, but had a nice party, did some shopping, did some work on the house, got some code done
14:40.44d-lohouse warming party or 'just because' party ?
14:48.47brlcadplayoff party
14:50.57brlcadinstalling a new electrical outlet behind the TV was probably the most interesting 'challenge'.. that lil job took hours (mostly fishing finding ways to fish the power up through the wall
14:51.35brlcadbut it's in place now, no mistakes, no sparks, a thing of beauty
14:52.01d-loyeah, running 'old work' wires through a house is really rough unless you have one of those 'ulstrasonic interference finder' devices and a 200' phish reel :/
14:53.00brlcadI had a phish reel and a stud/power finder
14:54.14d-loI had a friend down in white marsh that showed me a 'ultrasonic' device... shows everything behinds the wall...kinda like a fish finder.  it was waaaaaay cool.  trumped my B&D stud/power finder hands down :(
14:54.18brlcadthe reel helped a little bit, but I still had to drill 2.5" hole halfway to try and feed
14:54.40brlcadah one of those, yeah
14:54.57d-loheh, just rip down all the drywall, install conduit, wire and redrywall :)
14:55.02brlcadI almost splurged for one of those lighted cameras that display to an lcd
14:55.29d-looooh, those pseudo-spy camera things?  neat!
14:56.17brlcadthis is the wall with the big tv, so the drywall is staying up there for quite a while :)
14:57.07d-logood deal.  
14:57.31d-loAre you planning on running cat throughout the house?  I can't remember if you are a wireless hater or not...
14:58.20brlcadone of these: http://tiny.cc/M0301
14:58.47brlcadi'm not a hater, but I do like a wired line running to my main server
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14:59.26d-loWhat Do Customers Ultimately Buy After Viewing This Item? 88% buy 'SWAT team costume with realistic FireArms'
14:59.29brlcadwhich is upstairs, so I do have to run some cat6 quite a ways
14:59.57brlcadheh, yours says that?
15:00.04brlcadmine says 78% buy that item
15:00.14d-lois looking for a way to centralize all the cat6 in the vent shaft... might take some work :/
15:00.23d-lono, I just thought it would be cool if it did say that :)
15:01.00brlcadah, heh
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15:20.22``Erik"now with free fbi dossier" heh
15:20.41d-lo``Erik: how ya feeling?
15:20.49``Eriktired and old
15:21.22``ErikI mostly didn't want to shovel the road out to where they bothered plowing
15:21.35d-lowell, there is some 'good' that can come from an extra day at home:  more wow time ;)
15:21.38``Erikprivate community roads suck when snow's around
15:21.47``Eriknah, been cleaning and throwing cold weather gear in my car
15:21.55``Erikand paying bills
15:22.08d-loI know.  They plowed my roads at 3 am..... bastards...
15:22.52``ErikI can see where they plowed.. way out there... but I'd have to shovel more road than driveway to get there
15:22.53``Erik:/
15:23.27``Erikand I can't find my gloves and hat, so I don't wanna be outside :D
15:24.11d-lojust thought of a new 'roomba'..... gas fired SnowThrowerOomba!
15:25.41``Erikheh
15:25.46``Erikdave, are you playing on fenix?
15:26.01d-lonah... barely playing on Epsi.
15:26.09``Erikthere's a claymore in fenix fate
15:26.19d-logot sucked back int a Civ4 addiction.
15:26.24d-loorly?
15:26.33d-lodid they copy my profile?
15:26.49``Erikhttp://fenix.astroempires.com/profile.aspx?player=11127
15:27.01``Erikno, but same name and guild
15:27.16d-loheh, I think there is an Anime with the name Claymore
15:27.31d-lojust bombard him with 'POSER!!!!!' private messages for me, k?
15:27.43``Erikah, heh :D saw the name and the familiar "OMG he's got a" title :D
15:27.50``Erikhrm, I'm not in fate, so I d'no if I wanna stir things up like that
15:28.23``Erik<-- sometimes knows when to shut his mouth... on rare occasion... :D
15:28.29d-lolol
15:28.48d-lowell its nice to know that I have a 'cool' internet handle :D
15:29.00``Erikoh, brlcad, I stuck richard as contact and cliff as alt for in-house distribution, the s2 guys should be handling most of it for us
15:29.04d-loshould charge royalties......hrm.....
15:29.17``ErikI think there may be prior art
15:30.39``Erik(though "fire" was patented a few years ago... mebbe you could pull it off!)
15:31.22d-loits my ticked to being a millionare!  No wait....
15:32.21``Erikcloses down gnucash
15:32.34``Erikw00t, I'm a hundredaire!
15:33.46d-lowe need to start a l33t hundredaire club.
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16:33.02Dr_Phreakensteinbrlcad: thanks a lot. now i have to buy one, too. recently got my first milwaukee corded drill, and now i know why people kill eachother over those things.
16:34.29bjork_i use a ridgid.
16:34.36bjork_the damned batteries are fried ...
16:34.41Dr_Phreakensteinnice
16:34.53bjork_but the 18V li-ion ... very powerful
16:34.57bjork_and relatively light weight.
16:35.09Dr_Phreakensteinmilwaukee uses genuine panasonic batteries, as does bosch
16:35.23Dr_Phreakensteinthose are the only 2 choices, in my book
16:35.28bjork_i can drill holes with 5/16th screws into 1/4 inch thick steel sheets with it.
16:35.33Dr_Phreakensteineven so, corded is the way for me
16:35.49Dr_Phreakensteinyes, but how many?
16:35.59bjork_1 per hole, usually.
16:36.07bjork_that's when i don't have a drill bit handy.
16:36.11Dr_Phreakensteinper battery?
16:36.15bjork_oh no.
16:36.23bjork_the battery lasts several holes.
16:36.44bjork_i think something in the circuitry is gone bye-bye and so i have to have those replaced.
16:37.06Dr_Phreakensteini have a lot of extension cords, so i just skip the battery altogether.
16:37.28bjork_i hardly ever use chorded drills unless i'm drilling into an I-beam or something.
16:37.41Dr_Phreakensteinwhich I do
16:37.49bjork_oh alright.
16:37.53bjork_what for? the heck of it?
16:38.14Dr_Phreakensteinno, building my machine shop
16:38.47bjork_cooooooool!
16:39.36Dr_Phreakensteini even insist on keyed chucks. keyless does not grip well enough on a 1/2" TiN drill bit through 1" mild steel
16:39.51bjork_so you already have the machines for the shop?
16:40.32Dr_Phreakensteingoing to auction thursday
16:40.37bjork_really nice.
16:40.40Dr_Phreakensteintoes crossed
16:40.46bjork_but what do you need one for?
16:40.48louipc1/2 drill is a bit big for keyless isn't it?
16:41.14``Eriklikes his makita
16:41.30Dr_Phreakensteinyes, they do not hold stil. even cheap keyed chucks do not suffice
16:41.49louipcoh you're talking about hand drills?
16:41.51Dr_Phreakensteinmakita is my 3rd choice
16:41.56Dr_Phreakensteinyes
16:42.10louipcI guess it still applies
16:42.21bjork_it's ridgid, hilti for #2, and bosch #3
16:42.30bjork_hilti's are not too cheap though.
16:43.06Dr_Phreakensteinnow, i like the ridgid model 535 pipe machine, and i have one of their plumbing snakes nice
16:43.50bjork_what do you need a machine shop for, Dr_Phreakenstein?
16:44.20Dr_Phreakensteinmaking money
16:45.26bjork_are you a machinist?
16:45.30Dr_PhreakensteinI am taking classes now to become a machinist, but since i was in the army, i decided that i have worked for my last employer
16:45.31louipcmy machine shop made chips but no money :(
16:45.41Dr_Phreakensteinbummer
16:46.04bjork_custom parts and what not ?
16:46.35louipcyou need CNC to make money nowadays
16:47.01``Erikmeh, I can't spend too much money on tools, I'm using craftsman instead of snapon for hand tools :D
16:47.03archivistfor certain 1 offs non cnc is faster
16:47.30bjork_``Erik, craftsman replaces your tools for free so it's still a good choice.
16:47.55louipcmoney isn't really made on one-offs though
16:48.09louipcso you still need CNC to make money ;)
16:48.15bjork_but if you're doing batch work, you'll be competing with the chinese.
16:48.16archivistcanbe, I do 1 off gears, but on cnc
16:49.02louipcyeah and the chinese have shiny new tools
16:49.08``Erikscratches his head and tries to figure out why there's some christian prayer going on during the inaguration
16:49.47Dr_Phreakensteinyeah, one of the machines for sale (actually they have 17) is cnc
16:50.36archivistI need 5 axix to cut my setup time down
16:50.44Dr_PhreakensteinDr_Phreakenstein scratches his head and tries to figure out why Erik is watching the inaguration
16:50.55Dr_Phreakensteinwell, i gotta start somewhere
16:50.59louipcget a lathe with bar feed, part catcher, then you can pump out parts.
16:51.21Dr_Phreakenstein:)
16:51.23``Erikthe un-bush, and the first black president of the us *shrug* at least I'm watching the bbc feed instead of fox :D
16:51.43archivistin BBC land not watching :)
16:51.56Dr_Phreakensteingood for you, both
16:52.17louipcI'll check that out on the tele
16:52.24louipchow long is it supposed to go on for?
16:52.46``Erik'bbc america' is regional and lame, though :( when I was in memphis, they showed tons of comedy like abfab, monty python, black adder, etc... here it's all stupid semi-reality show crap about dirty houses and shit
16:53.03archivistI want bar fed cnc sliding head lathe, I my scrounge a freebee and add cnc to it
16:53.05bjork_he's NOT black!
16:53.08bjork_geezus bleeding christ!
16:53.51Dr_Phreakensteinwell, i hate to leave this, but gotta go to class and make chips!
16:53.55louipcwell he's close enough for people to make a frenzy out of it
16:54.06bjork_he's the first mixed president, that's for sure.
16:54.18bjork_he's neither black nor white.
16:54.32``Erikmost of the US considers him black, though *shrug* imagine it goes back to that "one drop" mentality :/
16:55.11bjork_stupidity on display for the whole world to see.
16:55.39bjork_i thought they called slick willie the first black president too at one point.
16:57.18``ErikI thought that was due to childhood background, not ethnicity
16:58.01bjork_i have no idea.
16:58.18bjork_so if obama's dad had been latino, he'd be the first latino president?
16:58.25bjork_instead of the first mullato?
16:59.37``Erikif you wanna go down that slippery slope, we're all africans
17:00.16brlcad``Erik: I saw the note, looked good (and they were better to be listed)
17:00.33bjork_hahaha
17:00.39``Erikbut general perception of the populace is that he is black, *shrug* so it's a fairly important paradigm change :)
17:01.21``Erikaight, brlcad, I got a call from the bc just before the meeting, so I had no clue what I was walking in to and what I could/should commit us to
17:01.29bjork_i still think it's unfair. the world is simply not strictly binary.
17:02.07``Erikok, mebbe it's better to look at what he is not than what he is... he's not an old white guy
17:02.55``Erikhopefully it's a sign that bigotry and prejudice and racism are dying out
17:05.04bjork_hahaha
17:05.28bjork_as long as humans remain, it'll be a primary element of social behavior.
17:05.43bjork_overtly it no longer is that bad.
17:05.50bjork_but people'll find ways and means.
17:06.23bjork_s.a. suffered from the arpatheid regime for so long. black s.a-cans gained power...
17:06.45bjork_and what do they do to the zimbabwe refugees, who are just like them? they murder them and beat them up.
17:06.47``Erikoh, there'll be some way we break outselves out into smaller tribes, but mebbe it'll shift to merit instead of heredity
17:06.55bjork_yeah.
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20:12.50brlcadhah, go me
20:13.38brlcadnice simple call for temporarily suspending a signal yet still delivering a raised signal if one is received while suspended once it's resumed
20:22.36``Erikeh?
20:29.28brlcaddilute engrish in the excitement of it working
20:42.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33568 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs):
20:42.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: Add new routines to libbu for temporarily suspending signal handling via a new
20:42.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: bu_suspend_signal() and bu_restore_signal() interface. the previous handler is
20:42.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: stashed and later restored. if that signal is received while suspended, the
20:42.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: handler is called once restored. this can be useful for protecting critical
20:42.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: sections.
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21:45.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33569 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/signal.c): prevent suspending the same signal multiple times (and clobbering the original handler).
22:07.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33570 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/signal.c: hm, the logic with just one counter means the restore will not raise pending signals unless there are no other suspended signals. make them per-signal.
22:15.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33571 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_io.c: protect all database writes from being interrupted by a signal, use the new bu routines for suspending a signal handler.
22:20.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33572 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (inside.c typein.c):
22:20.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: should no longer need the signal handler protections this high up in the API
22:20.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: since there are protections at the lower-level db_write(). db_diradd() might
22:20.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: also need bu_suspend_signal() proections but since it's all in-memory, it
22:20.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: souldn't matter if it gets a signal that interrupts.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090121

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090121

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01:04.16brlcadmm, interesting possible gui for editors, http://xml.openoffice.org/xmerge/docbook/UserGuide.html
01:04.28brlcadnot a great review ( http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/OpenOffice ) but progress
01:05.29brlcadMSWord>OO>OODocBook might be a reasonable path for vol III and beyond
01:26.04mafmdocbook ftw!
01:36.16mafmnight
01:56.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33573 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_io.c: need the signal.h header
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03:06.04bjork_lotus symphony is free as well btw, if anyone wants to avoid using OOOOooooo and/or MsWord.
03:06.14bjork_works on linux too!
03:07.43bjork_... and osX as well.
03:08.33bjork_http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/19/AR2009011901981.html
04:03.25louipchow does it compare to Ooo?
04:30.53brlcadbjork_: the original format for those docs is msword and the final format is docbook, so that has to be taken into consideration for determining a useful toolset path
05:14.40PrezKennedya free download from IBM?
05:14.46PrezKennedyit *must* be a trap!
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06:58.34starseekerbrlcad:  I thought VolIII had a native docbook translation already?
07:18.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33574 10/brlcad/trunk/autogen.sh: (log message trimmed)
07:18.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: apply a modified version of sebastian pipping's git commit
07:18.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 1aa97fd3387ce7a2744e9157a3ca1ea2a8f8201c (index
07:18.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: b75fd44f0db99a60dd489cebab3b81ed4d9a55cc) that adds support to recognize the
07:18.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 'foreign' or 'cygnus' automake option. the patch originally printed a hint line
07:18.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: if all required files were missing or a custom-tailored marker message if it
07:18.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: didn't (as well as fixing a sneaky &> that made it in earlier). changed the
07:26.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33575 10/brlcad/trunk/autogen.sh: I swear I fixed these over a year ago.. old bsd basename doesn't take pipe'd input. use the arg list instead.
07:31.53brlcadstarseeker: ah, right -- i'd forgotten that you'd completed III, so IV then ;)
07:32.27brlcadmore interesting was just being able to have a capable wysiwyg docbook editor for the general masses iff that approach actually worked well enough
07:33.58brlcadusing a text editor to edit the tags directly is a non-starter for many that might help contribute
07:34.33brlcadeven wikitext is a stretch and less-than-ideal (for true nice-quality DTP), but it's a good accessibility/contribution tradeoff
07:56.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33576 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/xpush.c: style, ws, reorder to elimiate all but one forward declaration.
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21:33.47IriX64are pastebins allowed?
21:34.14IriX64C:\brlcad2\bin>mged -c -v
21:34.14IriX64File mged.c Compiled Jan 21 2009 00:18:54 - Geometry Editor (MGED) Version 7.14.
21:34.14IriX641
21:34.14IriX64BRL-CAD Release 7.14.1  Geometry Editor (MGED)
21:34.14IriX64<PROTECTED>
21:34.14IriX64<PROTECTED>
21:34.19IriX64attach (nu|X|ogl)[nu]?
21:34.53IriX64:)
21:38.08IriX64shoulda used rafb for that sorry
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22:15.56``Erikusually, "cmd -v" just prints the version and exits, does not continue execution
22:30.52IriX64wasn't sure how i should approach that, a simple bu_exit( will fix it
22:31.24IriX64does bu_exit take parameters ala bu_log?
22:44.42brlcad<PROTECTED>
22:45.02IriX64thanks, ill search
22:45.12brlcadnice progress
22:45.19IriX64thanks
22:45.40brlcadget rid of the first two lines, add bu_exit, and you should have a viable patch
22:45.45IriX64that can be used anywhere you have argv argc :)
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23:06.28IriX64http://rafb.net/p/RkAwtY12.html  <--- like this :)
23:07.24brlcadgot rid of the wrong one
23:07.27brlcadbrlcad_ident() is good
23:07.33IriX64thats just the exit
23:07.45IriX64oh i c
23:07.58IriX64thats still there on startup
23:10.00IriX64it exits now on -v thats the only difference
23:11.57IriX64__DATEE,__TIME__ are beautful %s people ;)
23:12.03IriX64err -E
23:14.27IriX64BRLCAD_MAJOR and friends are beutiful %d people, need not be long time using ;)
23:23.20brlcadfile, date, and time are useless for -v
23:43.50IriX64file that was compiled on mont-day-year hh:mm is useless for -v
23:45.02IriX64:)
23:48.24``Erikwe don't want __DATE__ __TIME__ __FILE__ or any of that crud, , just ident
23:49.11IriX64i see ... wait
23:52.18IriX64<PROTECTED>
23:52.28IriX64this
23:55.08IriX64you guys code well :)
23:59.30IriX64http://rafb.net/p/oaJZEX80.html  <-- main in rt
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090122

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090122

00:00.17``Erikyes, we know what rt looks like O.o it's in SVN
00:00.28IriX64sure is :)
00:01.16IriX64thank God he said "clipboard" and not 9mm :)
00:03.07``Erikonly punkass "gansta" wannabes carry 9's anymore, a .40 or 10mm is where it's at, yo
00:03.10``Erik:D
00:04.33IriX64http://rafb.net/p/T7SLwE60.html   <--- this is where i learn from mostly ;)
00:05.28IriX64after all the code *is the documentation
00:07.18``Erikbu.h would be a good commented index of all that crap (and we know what src/libbu looks like)
00:07.53IriX64thanks, i look at a lot of stuff, like the style you guys have
00:08.00IriX64its consistent
00:08.53IriX64if i try a diff to my brlcad2 svn thing, do the old diffs stay?
00:11.18IriX64remebering of course "my system is strange" :)
00:15.40IriX64remeber when i started with 7.6.2? i still can say i've never had so much fun :)
00:17.44IriX64he, all because i wanted to test automake on a makefile.am :)
00:17.49IriX64heh even
00:25.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33577 10/brlcad/trunk/ (TODO include/bu.h):
00:25.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: bitv shifting is now 'optimized' as in no longer calculated at run-time. since
00:25.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: bitv_t doesn't change at compile time and works equally well for large bit
00:25.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: vectors (actually a little faster if 'long' is a signficantly faster integer
00:25.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: type than 'long long' even on a 64-bit platform). that makes us ready to
00:25.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: release if testing goes well. still need a mega-mged test script to make sure
00:25.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: libged integration is good.
00:27.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33578 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: given the libged integration, we do need to write mged test script to exhaustively exercise all commands before doing a release.
00:29.56``Erik"svn diff > version.patch" and then manually review it
00:31.54IriX64thanks man
00:33.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33579 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS:
00:33.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: victor provided a reproducible case where xpush blows steaming chunks and fails
00:33.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: miserably to do its job leaving the db in a destroyed state. looks like it is
00:33.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: stopping halfway through the task but gives no indication that anything goes
00:33.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: wrong.
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00:38.02``Erikneato
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00:58.53*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.0 is now posted (20081108)
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01:10.33IriX64http://www3.sympatico.com/mario.dulisse2/frame.png :)
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01:23.43``Erikgrats on the masters, twingy
01:24.34``Erikneato, more tkhtml breakage
01:26.28TwingyI didn't get a masters
01:30.38``Erikoh, I heard you did
01:30.53``Erikguess the grapevine twisted the message :) you were going for a masters at gatech, right?
01:32.12Twingyyes, I stopped that over a year ago
01:32.20``Erikheh
01:32.22TwingyI'm pursuing a masters in computer engineering now
01:32.42``Erikah, cool
01:36.39mafmnight
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04:05.43yukonbobhello, cadheads
05:12.52Dr_Phreakensteinhello, yukonbob
05:13.19Dr_Phreakenstein(sorry, got some serious lag here ;) )
05:17.09brlcadhowdy yukonbob
05:44.58yukonbobhey Dr_Phreakenstein
05:45.04yukonbobbrlcad: long time, no chat :)
05:48.26brlcadindeed!
06:02.45yukonbobwhat's happening, my Internet friend?
06:03.13yukonbob(is capatalizing Internet considered Bad Form these days? I think it's passe')
06:03.15yukonbob*internet
06:04.22brlcadnah
06:04.40brlcadgoing pretty good
06:04.50brlcadlot of irons in the fire, but made some progress today
06:05.33yukonbobnice...
06:05.49yukonbobinteresting news to talk about?
06:06.05yukonbobis getting into cmake (after owning the book for almost a year)
06:06.17yukonbobis also getting into cross compiling (mingw)
06:06.27yukonbob...and more hardcore Tcl...
06:06.34brlcadcool
06:07.07yukonbob...and looking forward to getting the lastest ITcl/ITk (branded "ng") running so he can get over this no-brl-cad drought...
06:07.15brlcadbiggest news is probably that libged is coming to completion, getting integrated with mged now, and will soon hopefully provoke the merging of mged and archer
06:07.20yukonbobI don't know when the last time I had it installed was :P
06:07.34yukonbobah, I miss mged
06:08.41yukonbobonce I finally get it installed, I want to a) start modelling again (speedos) b) delve into programming against librt
06:09.05yukonbobI'll be picking your brain...
06:09.54yukonbobactually has some only-secondarily related-to-brl-cad questions for you, but I'll collect some info and formulate good questions before I start wasting time...
06:10.31brlcadlooks forward to it
06:10.37yukonbob:)
06:11.10yukonbobyou have any news re: itcl/itk ng? I've heard that they pass all the test suites, but I haven't tried building for quite a few weeks...
06:11.18yukonbobwhat's the tree use?
06:11.21brlcadlibrt is easy .. since you're so interested in tcl, you might be more keen on mged/archer enhancements
06:11.42brlcadI tried it about 6-8 weeks ago
06:11.46brlcadand it failed miserably
06:11.47yukonbobsuccess?
06:11.48yukonbobha
06:11.50yukonbob*ah
06:11.51yukonbob:P
06:11.56yukonbobfsck
06:12.18yukonbobitcl/itk are still aboslutely required though, correct?
06:12.19brlcadit's changed a fair bit since then, worth another try
06:12.24brlcadabsolutely, yes
06:12.42brlcadthere's more than 100k lines of itcl/itk code
06:12.44yukonbobya -- test scores have gone up, which is promising ... I monitor the wiki page occasionally ....
06:12.55brlcadmonitors the trackers
06:13.01yukonbobitcl is certainly a blessing and a curse...
06:13.09yukonbob?trackers
06:13.16brlcadthe sf trackers
06:13.19yukonbobah
06:13.31brlcadall bug reports, feature requests, support requests, patches
06:13.39yukonbobya
06:13.51brlcadeasier to see when someone is actually busy
06:14.01brlcadas opposed to just being all talk
06:14.06brlcadon the lists
06:14.07yukonbobtrue, true.
06:15.04yukonbobgoes to see latest news/details on itcl/itk, setup test env...
06:20.21PrezKennedyIIIi wish i could go on just a couple hours of sleep like brlcad can :(
06:20.32PrezKennedyIIIwaves good night
06:20.39brlcadit's easier the more you do it
06:20.55brlcadplenty of time to sleep when you're dead
06:20.59PrezKennedyIIIive tried... it doesn't work for me
06:21.04PrezKennedyIIIi need about 6-8 hours
06:21.09brlcadone/two time tries don't do jack
06:21.12brlcadhas to be habitual
06:21.32PrezKennedyIIIive tried for years and i finally gave up
06:21.50PrezKennedyIIIi need at least 6, or the day absolutely sucks
06:22.09brlcad4 is about the minimum sustainable for most
06:22.38PrezKennedyIIIbesides, youll be dead sooner if you dont get enough sleep :p
06:22.42PrezKennedyIIIcatch 22 ;)
06:22.47brlcadnah, old wives tale
06:23.09brlcadthere've been plenty of studies that have shown it's sustainable
06:23.15louipcdepends on what you do to your body I suppose
06:23.27brlcadit's just not something you can jump into though
06:24.05brlcadit's like cold weather or distance running or listening to loud music
06:24.13brlcadyour body adjusts over time
06:24.51PrezKennedyIIIand then you can never hear the same, your knees get damaged, and you catch pneumonia
06:24.54PrezKennedyIII:D
06:24.55louipcI did 4hrs a night for about 2yrs... but I'd sleep everywhere... on the bus, waiting in line, at lunch break, ...
06:25.12PrezKennedyIIIgnight all
06:25.18louipcgnite
06:25.46PrezKennedyIIIoh yeah, brlcad... my dad is trying that whole 4 hour thing and i dont think its workin for him either
06:25.55PrezKennedyIIIhe falls asleep playing games
06:25.58brlcadparticularly liked the discovery episode that put a northern indian/eskimo against someone from new england, testing their cold weather extremes
06:26.14louipchah
06:26.24brlcadhooked them both up to instruments in a closed room and dropped the temperature fast to measure their responses
06:26.38brlcad(in their skivies only)
06:26.57brlcadpretty interesting to see the response graphs over time
06:28.13brlcadboth could withstand some pretty substantial extreme colds before getting near internal organ danger temps, but the eskimo was noticably unaffected nor uncomfortable until it was near that extreme
06:29.06louipcso he can keep on trucking potentially to safety eh?
06:29.11brlcadthe other dude was mostly just 'miserable' and whiny much longer
06:30.01yukonbobstarts itcl build attempt.
06:30.03brlcadthe indian could withstand a colder temp, but it wasn't nearly as drastic as their first measure of asking them to say when they "felt cold"
06:30.05yukonbobruns into first failure...
06:31.02brlcadyou have to have a recent tcl/tk too
06:31.08yukonbob8.5.6
06:31.23yukonbob_has_ been working, quietly, in his lab here ;)
06:42.49yukonbobis stalled at this hour...
06:43.08yukonbobbrlcad: if it's agreeable to you, I've got some general questions that I'll pose in the future...
06:43.29yukonbobmore shared-lib/libtool/auto*-fu
06:44.00yukonbobprepares to hit hay --- is not on 4h sleep sched yet ;)
06:53.21brlcadheh
07:02.56brlcadwanders off to his car for a cruise
08:41.20brlcadwanders into the darkness
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12:34.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33580 10/brlcad/trunk/include/config_win.h:
12:34.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: some declarations for signal handling
12:34.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: Notice: Signals are poorly supported by MS Windows. This o.s. has its own methods to do the job. Using signals means to target a Unix o.s..
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12:38.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33581 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/BrlcadCore.def: added one more function to export
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14:20.58mafmhi
14:23.58brlcadhowdy
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15:08.35yukonbobbrlcad: speaking of 4h sleeping schedules, are you a coffee (or tea, jolt, etc) drinker?
15:15.24``Erikcoffee made with bawls, pheer
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16:14.25brlcadyukonbob: I go through phases, but yeah sure
16:15.08brlcadusually a couple weeks on, few weeks off, so I never get used to it (and then it also usually does its job very well if I need it)
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20:21.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33582 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (4 files in 2 dirs): move utilization of vmath.h
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20:54.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33583 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
20:54.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: daniel makes a good point about signals on windows. instead of making the code
20:54.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: specific to signals, make the api attempt to suspend interruptions (with various
20:54.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: signals being one form of an interrupt). on mac and windows, this might also
20:54.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: include buffering various gui events (like the close button) that may have
20:54.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: independent callbacks. hide the two new bu_*_signal() routines as an
20:54.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: implementation detail for now since it's not readily needed anywhere else and
20:56.41CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33584 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/signal.c: rename prep
21:00.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33585 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): rename signal.c to interrupt.c
21:03.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33586 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (chgview.c cmd.c facedef.c rtif.c track.c utility1.c): s/interupts/interrupts/g typo
21:10.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33587 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
21:10.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: should refactor mged's signal handling so that any long-running command can be
21:10.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: interrupted safely. as it is, with the sig2/sig3 interrupt handler using
21:10.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: longjmp's, just about any librt call might leave the dbip in a bad state.
21:13.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33588 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libutil/ (Makefile.am camera.c camera.h umath.c umath.h): eliminate umath and camera
21:14.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33589 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (25 files in 5 dirs): use vmath where possible
21:56.03CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33590 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 5 dirs): move mersenne twister random number generator from ADRT's libutil to libbn
21:58.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33591 10/brlcad/trunk/ (9 files in 8 dirs): eliminate src/adrt/libutil and src/adrt/libcommon
22:06.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33592 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: src/adrt/libcommon is GONE, man
22:13.40kanzureI have a set of points that represent a path that I'd like to model. These points would be, say, used to guide a drill bit. Is there a way for me to do this easily via BRLCAD?
22:14.00kanzurePreviously I was attempting to plot tubing using those coords, but there were one too many things going wrong that I haven't been able to track down.
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23:37.06kanzureHey elite01.
23:37.38elite01yo kanzure :D
23:37.41elite01waves
23:37.52kanzurewaves back.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090123

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090123

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02:41.27brlcadkanzure: by previously attempting to plot tubing, you mean in brl-cad?
02:41.42brlcadI'd think that'd be a good case for the pipe primitive
02:42.14brlcadthe set of points being a partial set of params to a given pipe
02:50.02kanzureThat last message made no sense, what ? :)
02:50.06kanzurebut yes, I did mean plot tubing in brlcad
02:51.18brlcadhow did you previously attempt
02:51.33brlcadwhat did you try to do?
02:51.39kanzure<PROTECTED>
02:52.06kanzureYou were helping me out when I was figuring that out, actually. I was using the command to point-and-click to place the next piece of tubing
02:52.27brlcadi mean what primitive(s) were you using?
02:53.00kanzurepipe
02:53.01brlcadyou say 'tubing' but we don't have a tubing primtive, so wondering if it was a pipe or series of cylinders or spheres, or something else
02:53.04brlcadah ok
02:53.07kanzuresorry, pipe :)
02:54.29brlcadokay, so there's a couple things you can do
02:55.13brlcadeither a) give the pipe tutorial another go (volume III, principles of effective modeling, on the website under docs)
02:55.34brlcador b) try the 'pipe' command outside of mged
02:55.45kanzurein the shell?
02:56.08brlcador c) just manually create a series of cylinders (rcc's would probably be best) that use your points as start/end points
02:56.29brlcadon the command prompt outside of mged, not mged's command prompt
02:56.49brlcadthe unix/dos command line
02:57.17kanzureif I do the cylinder rcc's, that would mean that each cross section would "jolt" sort of, right?
02:57.39kanzureI'm using this for some fluid flow simulations, by the way, so I think I'd just have to increase the granularity or resolution of the list of numbers for the cylinders
02:58.32brlcadthere would be a "crack" in the tubing run if you used just rcc's and it wasn't just a straight tube
02:58.47brlcadbut you could add joints that would make a seamless bend
02:58.57brlcade.g. just add a sphere at that point with the same radius
02:59.25kanzuresame radius as what? I'm not calculating "bends" at the moment- I just have a list of points from some parametric equations
02:59.28kanzureparticularly of a spiral.
02:59.41brlcadbut then that's sort of what the 'pipe' tool does too (with options to use torii, spheres, mitre'd corners, etc)
03:00.00brlcadsphere having the same radius as your cylinders
03:00.06brlcadwhatever you choose
03:00.30kanzureoh? Maybe that's why I was having problems earlier. Each time I tried to plot 'pipe' with the parametric equations, it would tell me that it was intersecting with itself and not plottable (or something- I can't get you the specific error at the moment)
03:00.44kanzurethe "oh?" was to the mention of the options to the pipe command
03:01.08brlcadfyi, the pipe _tool_ is not at all the same as the pipe primitive
03:01.38brlcadthe tool predated the primitive by about a decade and was the defacto way for a long time (it still has nice interactive inputs)
03:01.39kanzurehrm. worth investigating. The tutorial that I read in the PDF would have been about the primitive, IIRC, right?
03:01.55brlcadthe pipe primitive is basically a subset of what the pipe tool can do
03:02.53brlcadif the pipe primitive was complaining about self-intersection, it was probably bends that were too extreme (e.g. bending back on itself) or invalid inputs
03:03.06kanzurefloating point inputs?
03:03.13kanzureerm, doubles, basically.
03:03.27brlcadno, nothing to do with floats/doubles
03:03.56brlcadi mean it's asking for values and you think it means something else
03:04.26kanzureit was the xyz "point" for the 'point' command in mged.
03:04.48kanzureso it was something like "p 1.0 2.0 3.0"
03:04.58kanzureI can bring up the specifics later.
03:05.29brlcadlike asking for diameter values and you feed radius values inadvertently or setting the next pipe 'point' when you're on a bend and feeding the wrong point
03:05.54kanzurelike I said, I'm just plotting the points from a parametric equation
03:06.00brlcad'p' is not the 'point' command, it's just parameters .. which depend on the currently activated edit operation
03:06.01kanzureso if I'm on a bend, how do I account for that
03:06.09kanzureoh, sorry, it might not have been 'p'
03:06.30brlcadyou would have used 'p' if you were selecting edit options
03:06.51brlcadit just doesn't mean "point" :)
03:07.35brlcadthe pipe primitive doesn't just take a series of points and spline-interpolate them
03:07.43kanzureaha, here we go
03:07.44brlcadthe tutorial is really necessary for understanding its inputs
03:07.52kanzurehttp://heybryan.org/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/spiral_generator.pl
03:08.03kanzurehope you can read perl - if not, check near the bottom to see the mged command.
03:08.21kanzurenope, sorry, wrong one. I was just doing rpp's.
03:08.48brlcadyeah, I was gonna say :)
03:08.56kanzurethose are some funny pipes huh? :)
03:09.01brlcad:)
03:10.39brlcadmm.. that's one insanely slow download rate
03:10.51kanzurehow slow am I at?
03:11.00kanzureI'm paying for an 8 MB/sec line.
03:13.30brlcad<PROTECTED>
03:13.30brlcad<PROTECTED>
03:13.30brlcad100  292k  100  292k    0     0  12815      0  0:00:23  0:00:23 --:--:-- 17608
03:14.05kanzurespeed is in kbps?
03:14.19brlcad12.5KB/sec
03:14.30brlcada hair shy of 8MB/sec
03:14.37kanzurehuh. well.
03:15.19brlcadmaybe others are hitting up the pipe
03:15.29kanzuretails the apache log
03:15.41brlcadthere, that's a little better, about 40KB/sec now
03:16.13brlcadneat, http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/2008-12-16_spiral_generator_works.png
03:16.46kanzureturns out that the cross-sections are facing the wrong way on some parts of the spiral
03:16.48brlcadwith that many points, you certainly should be able to create a corresponding pipe with the right inputs
03:17.14brlcadthe only issue I can see arising would be having a radius be larger than the spacing between the "points"
03:17.16kanzurethey are rectangular cross-sections, so on one side of the spiral you might see something like the 'window' facing inwards, as seen in the other shots
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03:17.49kanzure(instead of facing the right way, which I guess would be defined as the tangent at that point?)
03:19.00brlcadyeah, I saw them
03:19.42brlcadwould make a great dominos demo
03:20.40madant1loves spiral of dominos
03:20.59kanzuregood analogy. Google 3D Warehouse has a 3D spiral of dominoes .. hm, not algorithmically generated though
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03:21.16kanzure3http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=8c93df389a7d4a057a734abc5ba1db0f
03:22.07brlcadmust enfeed
03:22.13brlcadtacos!
03:22.17brlcadbbl
03:31.08yukonbobhello, cadheads
05:05.22kanzurebrlcad: Hey, so about that spiral_generator.pl file. The oed command didn't work in there anyway, it was supposed to rotate the rpp, but it never did work. Any hints?
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05:25.17brlcadkanzure: hm.  well, you don't have a rotate command in there
05:25.20brlcadonly a translate
05:25.58brlcadand the leading / on cross_section_region is unnecessary, but don't see a problem off hand
05:26.01kanzureif I s/translate/rotate/ will that work?
05:27.11brlcads/translate/rotobj/, sure
05:28.13kanzureoops, wait
05:28.14brlcadnote that rotations are the reason the left-hand side must lead down to a primitive -- it uses the primitive as the rotation keypoint by default
05:28.18kanzurethe 'translate' shouldn't matter
05:28.25kanzureit should be s/orot/rotobj/
05:28.50kanzureright?
05:29.14brlcadorot and rotobj are effectively the same
05:29.20kanzuredoesn't do its job then :(
05:29.30brlcadrotobj -i will work incrementally, otherwise both are absolute iirc
05:30.39brlcadit also works with degrees and not radians
05:31.36brlcadseems to work just fine here, is it not rotating at all or just not in the manner you expect?
05:31.46kanzurenot at all
05:32.08kanzurelemme see if I can't just use a random value for radians and see how that looks
05:36.25brlcadcan you paste that semi-separated line with values so I can test it here?
05:37.00kanzure3<PROTECTED>
05:37.07brlcadobject rotations is one of the staple commands that is run in production hundreds of times a week in-house, so I really suspect it's just bad input
05:37.48kanzureThat's with $degrees=int(rand(10))*PI;
05:38.19kanzurethough I don't know why now that I think about it.
05:38.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33593 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: need to deprecate one of the object rotation commands
05:43.51brlcadhm, that example works just fine here:  http://paste.bzflag.bz/m50be6677
05:44.15brlcad(just used rpp and rpp2 instead of mflb2_524.s and caboff1_524.s)
05:45.23brlcadan unrelated hint, if all you have is a primitive, you can just run "sed primitive" to go into edit mode on a given primitive instead of specifying the two paths
05:45.49brlcadit's when you got to cross_section_region_524.c that you need oed since it's a combination instead of a primitive
05:47.38kanzure3originally I was using g-stl -o keep.g.stl spiral.g cross_section_region_{0..999}.r
05:47.44kanzure3to generate an stl file for an STL viewer that I use
05:47.53kanzure3but it seems it doesn't like my cross_section_region_$i objects any more
05:48.07kanzure3ah, it's .c :)
05:50.44kanzure3http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/2009-01-22.png  <- so this is with the random values. That's one side of the spiral. The holes should be aligned .. not the way that they are.
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13:22.59brlcadkanzure: there is some sort of randomness there
13:23.09brlcadbut I see what you mean
13:23.22brlcadorot is working, though -- just means that the values aren't right
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13:24.33brlcadas I mentioned, the two most common mistakes are providing radians instead of degrees and assuming a global rotation keypoint
13:26.24brlcadmy guess would be the latter in this case, it's using one of the vertices on the arb8 as the rotation keypoint, which is very likely not what you would expect -- you either need to compute the center-point on the .c and run 'keypoint' first or set the global 0,0,0 origin as a keypoint or try incremental rotations
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14:23.33``ErikEVERYBODY DANCE!
14:23.52d-loDisco Disco Good Good
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16:09.24brlcadoops
16:09.35brlcadforgot the /me
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16:17.08``Erikbot abuse! I'm calling petr!
16:17.31``Erikgas leaks in the building are fun. wee.
16:26.19d-lobrlcad:  do you know who stole my chair?
16:32.03brlcadoops!
16:32.08brlcadd-lo: it's in the server room
16:32.26d-loah, okay.  As long as its not on its way to Canada or Mexico ;)
16:32.56brlcadneeded a "high" chair for a late night server session, it was the highest
16:34.12d-losighs. nice to have the ol chair back ;)
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17:23.13kanzurehttp://heybryan.org/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/2009-01-23.png <- at least I know it works.
17:39.04brlcadhehe, kanzure that's pretty cool
17:40.58kanzureso setting zrot = tan(y/x) didn't do the trick (I've tested and zrot is indeed the correct rototation)
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17:41.45kanzurethere's some function that will do it correctly (clearly), so what I should do is go through it manually and then figure out what my function plot looks like
17:44.00brlcadyeah
17:44.06brlcadI suspect it's just the keypoint
17:44.26brlcadthe default keypoint is going to be one of the corners of that "window"/box
17:44.38kanzurebtw, I set keypoint to 0 0 0.
17:44.40brlcadwhich isn't likely what you'd want to rotate about even for a z rotation
17:45.21brlcadif they're centered at the origin before you translate them, that would be perfect
17:45.48brlcadcenter at the origin, rotate as needed, translate into place
17:46.32brlcadotherwise you'll need to call 'keypoint' and compute the center of the box
17:49.14kanzurebrlcad: nope, even with keypoint 0 0 0; translate ; orot;.
17:49.38kanzurethat's with the zrot as the tangent at the point. That's probably wrong. Maybe I should go ask #math.
17:50.37brlcadi said it has to be centered on 0 0 0
17:50.47brlcadif it's not working, it's not centered there
17:51.14brlcadthe script you showed earlier, they certainly weren't being centered about the origin
17:51.18kanzureI thought keypoint centers it?
17:51.33brlcadno, keypoint just sets the keypoint about which you rotate
17:53.09brlcadsay your object was a sphere, positioned at 100 0 0 .. if you rotate it 180 degrees with a keypoint of 0 0 0, it'll be at -100 0 0
17:53.50kanzureso the objects that I make are just rpp's with different sizes (xmin, xmax, etc.)
17:53.53brlcadif you set the keypoint to 100 0 0 and rotate it 180 degress, it'll still be at 100 0 0 (but 'facing' the opposite direction)
17:54.24kanzureso I guess I don't know how to set the center point?
17:55.24brlcadthe default/natural keypoint for a sphere happens to be center of the sphere .. the default keypoint for an rpp is one of the corners (the 'first' corner)
17:56.48brlcadso if it's a box that is 10x10x2, modeled from 0 0 0 to 10 10 0, you'd want to set the keypoint as 5 5 1 to have it rotate in place
18:25.44kanzurewell that's weird, setting zrot to zero produces the same result. I'm so confused.
19:31.31PrezKennedybrlcad, have you ever heard of shapeways?
19:31.41kanzureI have :)
19:31.53kanzureponoko, shapeways, emachineshop, ..
19:32.10PrezKennedywhich is the best?
19:32.24kanzurehttp://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/comparison.html comparison of thei nventories of fablab v. techshop v. emachineshop (although I should add shapeways and ponoko)
19:32.27kanzure*the inventories
19:32.41kanzureI have a preference for ponoko, but only because the CEO has been friendly to me :)
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19:36.28kanzurebrlcad: Ok, so I'm using the pipe in the shell (outside of mged), and it seems to work, except some "FAILED in Boolean evaluation" messages.
19:37.13kanzurehttp://heybryan.org/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/2009-01-23_pipe.png - presumably, the parts where there is separation, are the places where those FAILED messages are being thrown
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21:00.25CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33599 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Add support for >, <, >=, <= to the -attr option in search
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23:13.28``Erikfirst the lotus with the storm trooper driving, now this http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1897399
23:13.34``Erikthe roads just aren't safe anymore
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090124

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090124

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03:22.15brlcadwonders how a storm trooper drives
03:23.31brlcadah, heh
03:23.34brlcadgoogled it
03:28.50brlcadnifty thread: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200594
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08:57.42csanyipalHowdy!
08:58.43csanyipalbrlcad version 7.12.6
09:05.42csanyipalI made a nice model of a photoholder.
09:10.33csanyipalIt can one to download from here: http://csanyi-pal.info/apache2-default/letoltes/BRL-CAD/photoholder.g
09:11.06csanyipalNow I want to make an animation of this photoholder.
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09:14.20csanyipalI'm following the Anim_Tutorial and have the key-frames. I have 37 keyframes.
09:16.02csanyipalI run the script key-chans and get the files: chans.eyept, chans.orient, chans.vsize.
09:16.49csanyipalWhen I want to run the 'tabinterp << EOF > chans.all' command I get error messages:
09:18.59csanyipalcmd: file chans.vsize 0
09:19.05csanyipalchan 0:  File 'chans.vsize', Column 1
09:19.13csanyipalFile 'chans.vsize', Line 2:  time sequence error 1.4 > 0.28
09:19.19csanyipalFile 'chans.vsize', Line 5:  time sequence error 4.2 > 0.56
09:19.26csanyipalFile 'chans.vsize', Line 8:  time sequence error 7 > 0.84
09:19.32csanyipalFile 'chans.vsize', Line 11:  time sequence error 9.8 > 1.12
09:19.39csanyipalaborting
09:22.33csanyipalThe key-frames can to download from here, if there are someone to want to help me to figure out what is the problem:
09:22.57csanyipalhttp://csanyi-pal.info/apache2-default/letoltes/BRL-CAD/Animation/
09:24.20csanyipalThanks!
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10:57.57csanyipalOK, I find a solution for my problem. It's a matter of properly naming the key-frames when using saveview command in MGED.
11:46.24*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@77-58-236-51.dclient.hispeed.ch)
13:15.52*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-121.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
13:54.58*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14D90A.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:11.41*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=cadguy@c-76-100-13-240.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
14:21.44iraytraceanybody able to make mged's oed command work?
14:36.50*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=quassel@81.39.20.119)
15:02.42*** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
15:05.04brlcadiraytrace: works here
15:06.38iraytraceExample?
15:07.29brlcadoed / all.g/platform.r/platform.s
15:08.22brlcadoed /all.g/platform.r platform.s
15:09.03iraytracein a sph 0 0 0 1
15:09.13iraytraceg c a
15:09.24iraytraceoed c a
15:09.28iraytracefails
15:09.29brlcadoed /c a
15:09.42brlcadtests
15:10.07brlcadah, have to e it up first
15:10.14brlcadg doesn't draw
15:11.40iraytracegot it.
15:11.50brlcadcsanyipal: 404 on that url, no BRL-CAD dir
15:12.02iraytraceProbably need to annotate manual that path needs to be on screen
15:12.21brlcadyeah
15:12.28brlcador fix it so it doesn't have to be drawn
15:12.39brlcaddon't see any reason to have that limitation
15:12.59brlcadother than consistency with sed
15:13.22brlcadoop, didn't notice the dcc
15:14.45iraytraceOBE
15:14.57brlcad:)
15:18.38csanyipalbrlcad: yes, because I delete it.. I solve the problem, but if You like, I put it there again, to see the model. :)
15:20.32csanyipalThis is a model of with my pupil will to go on competition soon.
15:21.48csanyipalIt's there again. :)
15:22.50brlcadcsanyipal: permission denied :)
15:23.19csanyipalOK soon i'll fix that..
15:24.05csanyipalbrlcad: and now?
15:26.50brlcadmuch better :)
15:27.01csanyipalOK :)
15:27.46brlcadvery nice
15:27.51csanyipalI have now the keptarto.rtanim that I run in MGED with preview command.
15:27.57csanyipalthanks!
15:28.35csanyipalbut it is so fast that I can't see anything.
15:33.52csanyipalThere is the keptarto.rtanim too, so you can download if you will.
15:35.40brlcadgot it
15:36.05brlcadthat's pretty cool, I"ll have to play with it some more later
15:36.41csanyipalIt's OK, I can see the L's out there.
15:58.19``Erikhrm
15:59.00``Erikassumed that the migration was of some importance O.o
16:03.43csanyipalWhen I run 'keptarto.rt -s 200' there is nothing happen.
16:04.55csanyipalI can't get the 'keptarto.pix' file.
16:10.27csanyipalWhat should to be the 'all.g' int he command line: 'rt -M $* -o moss.pix moss.g 'all.g' 2>> moss.log < moss.rtanim'?
16:13.30*** join/#brlcad DanielFalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-66-98.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
16:14.27csanyipalWhen I replace it with the keptarto.c from the Keptarto.g database, then I can see that that the keptarto.rt script does the work and I get the keptarto.pix.number files. :)
16:14.35*** join/#brlcad docelic_ (n=docelic@78.134.192.205)
16:28.53csanyipalI came to the command: setenv FB_FILE :0
16:29.15csanyipalbut get the message: bash: setenv: command not found
16:29.36csanyipal'aptitude search setenv' give to me nothing.
16:41.54csanyipalMoreover, when I try to run the command: $ fbserv -S 1024 0 /dev/sgip &
16:42.13csanyipalthen I get the error message: fb_open: no such device "/dev/sgip".
17:38.59CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33600 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/html/manuals/mged/mged_cmd_index.html: Corrected documentation of "oed" command. (rhs/lhs must be a currently displayed path) This fixes bug ID: 2533174.
19:11.18*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (i=1000@s142-179-54-198.bc.hsia.telus.net)
20:03.08*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1128564870.dsl.bell.ca)
20:03.54IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/tool.png   <-- i'm such a tool ;)
20:29.19brlcad``Erik: it is, just still flushing out my todo queue, won't get started till later tonight I think
20:29.43brlcaddown to just a couple hundred megs, not much more to go before it busts at the seams
20:30.03*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
20:30.25starseekerchecks to see what he can delete
20:31.02brlcadstarseeker: you're not using anything
20:31.13starseekeroh - not talking about bz?
20:31.15brlcadit's filled with actual data, just have to do the migration
20:31.31brlcadnew server has like 3X the space
20:31.37starseekercool :-)
20:31.57starseekerneeds to clean up the crap anyway...
20:32.06starseekerdon't need a bunch of old nirt doc drafts...
20:32.12brlcadmm
20:32.19brlcadI'm a data whore
20:32.24starseeker:-)
20:33.08starseekerstill has huge pull of national atlas clogging up his hard drive at home, refuses to give up :-P
20:33.11brlcadeven intermediates or temporary data unless I'm absolutely sure there's no use for it :)
20:34.34starseekerheh - and thus was the demand for terabyte drives on desktops created ;-)
20:35.06brlcadyeah, I have a whole human genome sequencing somewhere .. what will I ever do with that?  dunno, but just think of the possibilities! ;)
20:36.34starseekeris of the opinion that all *nix distros should have a couple extra DVDs included with all the public domain content that can be scraped together
20:37.17brlcadit wouldn't be just a couple extra DVD's
20:37.25starseekerWell, true
20:37.26brlcadthat's probably at least a few TB
20:37.49starseekerthinks a complete backup of http://public.resource.org/ might be a good place to start
20:38.26starseekerstill though - even a subset of good free stuff would be NICE
20:38.38brlcadhum, no .mil sites
20:39.56starseekerheh - good point
20:40.09starseekerI guess he thought they wouldn't be a "soft" first target ;-)
20:40.37starseekerGiven the Obama exec. order on FOIA requests though, I hope they hire him and put him to work getting stuff online
20:41.15brlcadthose two orders that came our are pretty nice
20:41.27brlcadthe foia less so, but the other one in particular
20:41.56brlcadthere's a sentence in there that reminded me of someone very specific and the way they think
20:42.07starseekerclosing Guantanamo?
20:42.38brlcadno
20:42.47starseekerchecks exec. orders
20:42.54brlcadtransparency and open government
20:42.58brlcadhttp://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20090121/2009_transparency_memo.pdf
20:43.12brlcad"Government should be transparent"
20:43.26brlcad"Government should be participatory"
20:43.40brlcadthat just screams of open source justification
20:43.46starseekerno kidding :-)
20:44.14brlcadoh yeah, "Government should be collaborative"
20:44.41brlcadso within 120 days, there is supposed to be new GSA directives
20:44.53starseekerwow, I hadn't see this one
20:44.54starseekerYAY
20:45.29brlcadit was the second or third order
20:46.19brlcadI did really like sentance in the FOIA one.. it hit very close to 'home'
20:47.14brlcad"The Government should not keep information confidential merely because public officials might be embarrassed by disclosure, because errors or failures might be revealed, or BECAUSE OF SPECULATIVE OR ABSTRACT FEARS." [emphasis mine]
20:47.25starseekerwas happy enough about the FOIA one, but that's AWESOME
20:47.44starseekerdoes happy dance,
20:48.59brlcadgranted, ARL operates in the one area that is almost completely exempt from FOIA requests, but someone with enough money could certainly put up a good fight
20:49.16brlcad(or enough time and press coverage)
20:50.25brlcadloves how his car looks now cleaned and waxed..
20:50.43brlcadpurty shiney
20:52.25brlcad(and yes, removing that last subtle remnants of salt off the car took priority over the server migration, ``Erik) ;)
20:55.57iraytraceI just read the Jan 21 press release from the White House.... w00t!
20:56.59iraytracewonders if the darkness is about to end.
20:57.40brlcadthere are two
20:57.54brlcadwell, three but two more interesting
20:58.22brlcadthey were out printed on my desk on the 21st
20:58.26starseekerHere's the other one http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/FreedomofInformationAct/
20:58.37starseekerwhere'd you find the pdfs?
20:58.50starseekeroh, I see gwu
20:59.24brlcadeff was starting point
20:59.28brlcadhttp://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/01/on-day-one-obama-demands-open-government
20:59.52brlcadthat links all three
21:00.05starseekercool
21:02.03brlcadwanders
21:02.17iraytracewonders if Bush's draft and service records will magically be found again.
21:03.14starseekerheh +1 Cynical
21:03.35starseekermore likely some supporter smuggled 'em out
21:06.20iraytraceThe new http://www.whitehouse.gov is pretty cool.
21:17.04*** join/#brlcad cad92 (n=bd470ae9@bz.bzflag.bz)
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21:53.24``Erik*read*
21:54.28``Eriksetenv is a csh type thang iirc. /dev/sgip would seem to assume an irix machine, not linux. blank out old log files, you have the shit on backups.
21:54.57``Erikall your gene sequencing are belong to me, make good your time, for great justice
21:55.46``Erikthe foia 'err on being open' was nice, but protecting the domestic spying activity, ugh
21:56.31``Erikpees on that orange go-kart
21:57.22``ErikI have a feeling that great care is being taken NOT to shit all over the former office holders record :/
22:12.24*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@99.147.180.206)
22:13.04*** part/#brlcad iraytrace (n=cadguy@c-76-100-13-240.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
22:27.32``ErikO.o
22:28.49``Erikffs, that e90 forum has been down for 12 hours now
22:31.11``Erikhuh, vw had a vehicle with a $40k base, they're stepping into mb and bmw's turf O.o
23:11.23brlcad``Erik: he ain't here or I would have responded
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090125

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090125

00:53.21*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1128564870.dsl.bell.ca)
00:55.20*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1128564870.dsl.bell.ca)
01:32.12IriX64http://rafb.net/p/YMNUKE81.html   <-- cray.g  :)
01:33.39louipcIriX64: no thanks. already have it.
01:33.50IriX64heh ok :)
01:34.53louipchah that's not even an error message. What was the point of that?
01:35.43IriX64was wondering why the reassigment of ls, and can't find the mged command that gives me a directory listing
01:36.42IriX64ahhh never mind exec ls does it
01:37.30IriX64hah, and on my system so does exec dir
01:38.27louipcOK. Your question wasn't very obvious from that pastebin.
01:38.35louipc~ask
01:38.36ibotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
01:38.38IriX64sorry man
01:42.39IriX64my site/cray.png  :)
01:44.22IriX64as agreed, no more helicopters, max size for fb is max size your display is set to (autodetected)
01:45.18louipchey did you figure out how to get a rendering of bldg391 from inside that globe?
01:45.37IriX64ie exec fbserv -S 1024 5 /dev/X &
01:45.51IriX64no i didn't and gave up did you?
01:47.56IriX64back to play, (can you tell I hate work?) :)
01:48.03louipcI guess I'll put it on my todo list...
01:48.24IriX64date for 9999 april 1,st
01:48.54louipcI'm too busy with other things to touch brl-cad or anything
01:49.16IriX64ahh, i bouce around a lot, little here, little there, you know
01:49.22IriX64bounce
01:49.52IriX64thanks for talking to me, I feel so lonely here at times ;)
01:51.25*** part/#brlcad DanielFalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-66-98.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
02:00.01*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1128564870.dsl.bell.ca)
02:00.36IriX64louipc: mysite/cray2.png    how do i look under the cover?
02:01.11louipcdunno
02:01.24IriX64heh another todo :)
02:01.49louipcoh, well you could not draw it
02:02.01IriX64:)
02:02.19louipcbut for bldg391 you want to get the sky effect that the globe gives... so you do want to draw it eh?
02:03.00IriX64why not remove it, and i thought it was the mirrored floors doing that effect
02:03.09IriX64am i wrong
02:41.13IriX64ok, where do i take my mug to be fired? (mysite/mug.png)
03:11.53*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=quassel@119.Red-81-39-20.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
03:15.15IriX64http://rafb.net/p/oE45Xo36.html  <---- louipc :)
03:20.18IriX64heh framebuffer server works now, i have two buffers co-existing on my screen louipc :)
04:26.47*** join/#brlcad schwinn434 (n=schwinn4@75.81.196.139)
06:07.20starseekerHmm... http://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/eop/opl/
06:10.37starseekerwonders if that's a useful place to mention on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is
06:10.45starseekerblast sorry
06:11.20starseekerwonders if that's a useful place to suggest Carl Malamud as a consultant on open government via the web
07:17.04*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net)
07:31.27*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@91.102.231.33)
07:33.58*** join/#brlcad kanzure (i=bbishop@66.112.232.117)
07:39.29csanyipalHowdy!
07:41.19yukonbobhey csanyipal
09:25.41*** join/#brlcad Dr_Phreakenstein (n=phreak@216.151.24.198)
09:41.27csanyipalbrlcad 7.12.6
09:42.21csanyipalI'm traying to Create Postage Stamp Animations following the Anim_Tutorial.
09:43.01csanyipalIn the following line:
09:43.03csanyipalrt -M $* -o moss.pix moss.g 'all.g' 2>> moss.log < moss.rtanim
09:43.36csanyipalI don't understand, what is the 'all.g'?
09:44.04csanyipal'all.g' doesn't exist here..
09:45.27brlcadafter the file name (the moss.g in that example) is the name of the geometry object(s) you want to render
09:45.41brlcadthere just happens to be an object called 'all.g' inside of the moss.g file
09:46.01brlcadmged -c moss.g tops
09:46.04brlcadmged -c moss.g l all.g
09:47.31csanyipalbrlcad: Yes, then in my photoholder.g database the keptarto.c is the name that should to be here, right?
09:47.33csanyipalrt -M $* -o keptarto.pix keptarto.g 'keptarto.c' 2>> keptarto.log < keptarto.rtanim
09:47.50brlcadas for your questions earlier, /dev/sgip is the framebuffer device name if you were on an IRIX box, it's /dev/X or /dev/ogl for linux  (run 'fbhelp' to see the list of available interfaces)
09:47.51csanyipalkeptarto is the photoholder in Hungarian..
09:48.48brlcadand 'setenv' is if you were using tcsh or csh for your shell, for bash/ksh/posix style shells, you just set the var and export it
09:48.57brlcadright
09:49.02brlcadper keparto.c
09:49.35brlcader, keptarto.c
09:49.46csanyipalbrlcad: thank You! :)
09:49.50brlcadthe single quote "'"'s aren't necessary
10:02.13csanyipalWhen I run the command:
10:02.15csanyipalpixtile -s 200 -S 1024 keptarto.pix | pix-fb -h
10:03.09csanyipalI get only 24 pictures, but I have there 64 keptarto.pix from keptarto.pix.0 - keptarto.pix.63?
10:03.29csanyipalWhy I get only 24 pictures?
10:33.17*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
10:36.26*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
11:59.41csanyipalSo long!
12:08.34*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=quassel@119.Red-81-39-20.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
12:17.49mafmhi
12:45.51*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=quassel@119.Red-81-39-20.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
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16:20.53CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33601 10/brlcad/trunk/src/shapes/: ignore new shapes
16:23.37CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33602 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/: remove picket_fence, fence, tire; add lens and human
16:27.43CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33603 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/tirewizard/: ignore Makefile and Makefile.in
16:28.28CIA-65BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33604 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/: ignore dem-g
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090126

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090126

06:05.57*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
06:05.57*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.0 is now posted (20081108)
07:52.48*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
09:10.23*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14F043.dip.t-dialin.net)
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11:35.40d-lomornin all!
12:24.58*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
12:28.39brlcadmornin'
12:31.45d-lohows the weekend going?  Or is it over like mine :/
12:33.51brlcadoh, it's over .. it was mostly a "catch-up" weekend at that with most everything pushed back a few days that I had planned
12:34.34brlcadstill not back to my regular coding habits yet, have a few more things to tie up in the house before I can have my nights back
12:35.29*** join/#brlcad learner (n=brlcad@c-98-218-53-50.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
12:35.29*** mode/#brlcad [+o learner] by ChanServ
12:35.48d-loHai Learner!  ;)
12:37.30learnerhmm, been a while since I was last let out!
12:39.20d-lowhats the occasion for the release?
12:42.26learnerI don't know, I suppose my master just finally got around to letting me out of my cage
12:42.47d-loah, The Halibut.
12:48.06brlcadlearner: I'm not sure, but I think he just called you a fish
12:48.43learnerswims away in disgust
12:49.10d-lo:D
12:49.37d-lobrlcad: hows the ride treating ya?  Have you  tried it in the snow yet? :D
12:50.02brlcadfantastic and yes
12:50.45d-lodoes well in the snow?
12:50.58brlcadshe's like a ballerina on ice without ice skates
12:51.50brlcaddoes okay, well enough, but you can tell she doesn't have her footing
12:52.01d-lo....so your feet get cold> :)
12:52.35d-loheh, I would think that a heavy foot + that car + snow = a lot of trouble....
12:52.42brlcadyeah, actually .. the tires are probably the worst I could have on it for snow
12:53.01d-loheh, 20" Mudders would look rather silly on it though...
12:54.19d-loponders that..... and chuckles.
12:55.08brlcadI've driven through plenty a blizzard in cars that aren't meant for snow to make it work, just have to take it very very careful
12:55.29brlcadthe really brief snow storm last monday was interesting
12:55.51brlcadbefore the roads were cleared
12:56.30d-loIsn't kinda funny how much survival of a snow storm is more dependant on the driver than the vehicle?  When I was stationed in upstate NY, the best snow car I ever driven was a '96 Chrysler Sebring Hardtop
12:57.26d-loof course, diggin out a low profile car is a bit of a pain.... and I can only imagine trying to dig out that little lotus of yours heh :)
12:59.26brlcadyeah, it wouldn't take even half a foot to make it a non-starter
12:59.49brlcadbut just a few inches is more a matter of speed, ice, conditions, road, etc
13:00.59brlcadused to take my old geo out all the time up through the mountains on unplowed snowy roads, there'd be SUV's and car's every couple miles that had slid off the road
13:01.19brlcadheads in to that class
13:01.33d-loHrm, Line lock the front breaks, put on some skids of some sort and you could have one badass (and fast) snow-mobile
13:01.50d-lothe PM type class?
13:24.43*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@77-58-230-29.dclient.hispeed.ch)
13:32.06*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-236.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
13:44.38*** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
13:55.54``Erikmore about the rubber and skill than the machine, imho
13:56.27``Erikmy dad was a wrecker in his youth, his observation was that SUV's and trucks were the ones in the ditches
13:57.33d-loreally wants to try out his jeep in a nasty storm :D
13:57.46``Erik<-- called in today, feelin' not so awesome and looking at snow outside
13:58.01d-loIs it snowing already at your place?
13:58.31``ErikI tried to take my truck out into a playground many years ago, nose went through the ditch ok, but the ass.... the bumper hit the asphault and the rear wheels were suspended
13:58.39``Erikit did earlier, it's mostly died down now
13:59.41d-lowell, every time they have called for snow, we (up in PA) got nuthin.... so I am going to call this storm's bluff too.
13:59.45d-lo:D
13:59.57d-lo'Never cry wol....er, snow'
14:01.50d-lo``Erik: how was your weekend?
14:01.59``Erikhuh, pay raise, neat
14:02.04``Erikhazy :D
14:02.22``Erikneighbors buddy wants to buy my truck for 200, I said 250 and he gets a manual and chains, too
14:02.22d-looh yeah.. the raise is supposed to kick in this paycheck innit?
14:02.39``Erikyeah, I got over 10% (capped and all)
14:02.43d-lohe gonna haul it away?
14:02.51``Erikthat'd be the plan
14:02.52d-lo10%, nice :)
14:02.58``ErikI'll help push it out in the road
14:03.01``Erikbut that's about it
14:03.02``Erik:D
14:03.04d-loAh, you capped in your payband?
14:04.22``Erikyeah, have been for 5 years
14:04.28d-lois getting close to the cap....
14:04.30``ErikI keep getting yelled at cuz I never bother putting in the case
14:04.38``Erikyou're db3?
14:04.41d-loneeds to work on his case.
14:04.42``Erik<-- just a 2
14:04.50d-lojusta 2 also.
14:07.15d-loso, even capped, you still pull a 10% raise?
14:57.19*** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
15:44.20*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1128565480.dsl.bell.ca)
15:46.02IriX64mysite/truck.png <--- done on vista64 with no cygwin installed using Xwin32 for an X server :)
15:49.34IriX64heh, the roaring silence was deafining ;)
15:59.14IriX64wait a sec
16:03.04IriX64ftp's giving me grief
16:43.20*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyi@91.102.231.33)
16:44.44IriX64now try
16:44.58*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
16:45.03IriX64waiti exceeded my quota :(
16:45.25d-lotry what?
16:45.52IriX64trying to get a picture up to my site
16:46.39d-loah, who's your host?
16:47.06IriX64heh BitchX on Vista64 , Microsoft I think you're number one ;)
16:47.12IriX64sympatico
16:49.52IriX64d-lo my mugs there tho, http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/mug.png
16:51.10d-lothat from the tutorial?
16:51.16IriX64yes
16:51.30IriX64i need help to draw :)
16:51.44IriX64err model
16:51.51d-loheh :)
16:51.56IriX64this is hardly drawing :)
16:52.09d-lodon't forget to subtract the inner cyl from the outer cyl and the torus ;)
16:52.20IriX64heh yeah :)
16:53.00IriX64where's the whip? whip my ftp client up to speed :)
16:53.19d-loI have had very good luck with Netfirms.com as a host
16:53.31IriX64I'm in Canada
16:53.57IriX64or do you mean as an ftp site host?
16:53.59d-lookay....
16:54.59IriX64os2.png is os2 in a vm machine
16:55.24d-loos2?  Ewww... why?
16:55.45IriX64heh have an old pm app whose pretty face i wanted to see again :)
16:59.13IriX64ive seen snails move faster than this, must be a busy day in sympatico land :)
17:07.13IriX64tool.png fixed 1 overlap in m35.g :)
17:10.17*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyi@91.102.231.33)
17:10.46csanyipalHowdy!
17:11.02d-lohowdy!
17:11.37IriX64doody :)
17:11.58csanyipalI run now the brlcad 7.12.6 on Windows XP.
17:12.44csanyipalIn the Command window of MGED the fonts are so small and I can't to setup to get bigger fonts. Why?
17:15.50csanyipalOn the Windows Desktop I have the biggest font setup.
17:18.58IriX64try mged icon right click -> properties not sure but you may be able to do something there
17:19.11csanyipalok
17:19.32d-lowell, MGED runs in a tcl enviornment.  There should be font settings available from within MGED.
17:22.43csanyipalOn MGED icon the right click give to me the setup but only for the black MS command prompt window.
17:23.05IriX64just a sec im installing it
17:23.07d-loin mged, try File -> preferences -> fonts
17:23.39csanyipalIn MGED Command Window there is the  File -> preferences -> fonts but there I get an error message:
17:23.55d-lookay, I do too.  Must be a windows thing.
17:23.55csanyipalnamed font "button_font" doesn't exist
17:23.56csanyipal<PROTECTED>
17:23.56csanyipal"font configure $fname"
17:23.56csanyipal<PROTECTED>
17:23.56csanyipal<PROTECTED>
17:23.58csanyipal"font_scheme_init id_0"
17:24.00csanyipal<PROTECTED>
17:24.24IriX64mine comes up like d-lo said
17:24.48csanyipal:(
17:24.48IriX64set to 12 at the moment
17:24.57d-loIriX64: are you running it through *nix or win32?
17:25.05IriX64win32
17:25.18IriX64only 7.14.1 runs thru *nix
17:26.04csanyipalIn the School there I have too BRL-CAD 7.12.6 and fonts are good in the MGED Command Window.
17:26.35IriX64try reinstalling the thing, you're data should be safe
17:26.42csanyipalOnly here, at my home I get the small fonts and this error when I try to setup Fonts.
17:26.51csanyipalok
17:27.46IriX64heh is this a hot copy of brlcad? thats the built in copy protection (chuckle)
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17:28.41IriX64d-lo finally... truck.png :)
17:29.21csanyipalI reinstalled brlcad but still have the fonts problem.
17:29.50d-locsanyipal: at school, are you running it on windows or *nix?
17:30.28csanyipalat school I'm running it on Windows XP
17:30.43d-loIriX64: well that truck looks familiar
17:30.50d-locsanyipal: and at home?
17:30.55IriX64heh you guys drew it
17:31.04csanyipalat home is the same
17:31.40IriX64do you have somebody elses tcl/tk installed at home
17:32.08IriX64like activestate?
17:32.18csanyipalwell, I don't remember.. how can I know that?
17:32.37d-locsanyipal: How about the versions at School and at home?
17:32.52csanyipalI must to see in Start / Control Panel / Add or Remove Programs, right?
17:33.10csanyipalThe versions at school and at home are the same
17:33.41IriX64see if theres something installed at home that you *don't have installed at school
17:34.31IriX64csanyipal. theres no error here it behaves accodringly
17:34.52IriX64defaults to 12, did you change the default
17:35.27IriX64save your database, go to programfiles brlcad and wipe it out and re-install it
17:35.57d-lothere is no need to reinstall
17:36.14csanyipalok I go now, because I'm removing some programs and must to close X-Chat.
17:36.20d-loif you want to change settings and a in-app means is not possible, just edit the .mgedrc file
17:36.25csanyipalThanks! See you later!
17:37.37IriX64d-lo, i didn't want to tell him, but i'm booted into vista64 at the moment :)
17:37.55d-lo...and why didn't you want to tell him?
17:37.58IriX64and mged 7.12.6 runs fine
17:38.13IriX64start an os discrepancy war, no thanks
17:38.49d-lohe's on XP, you are on vista... there is no war there imho.
17:39.17IriX64ok so i shoulda told him
17:39.29d-loRHEL > XP > Vista :D
17:39.52IriX64rm -rf any and all versions of windows :)
17:41.17IriX64altho... whan properly schooled windows is beautiful (read winix is wonderful) :)
17:42.25d-loHeh, been down into the guts of windows and back again.  There is very little beautiful about it 'cept the shine the polish the package with :)  The *ONLY* think windows has going for it is the amount of software (read: Games) available for it :)
17:42.54IriX64you call med a game :P  
17:42.58IriX64mged
17:44.20d-lomged on *nix is > mged on windows.  the windows port isn't quite at 100% yet
17:44.35IriX64time to see if i can school irssi , fun stuff thanks for the chat
17:44.40IriX64this i know
18:01.45*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=quassel@119.Red-81-39-20.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
18:30.10*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyi@91.102.231.33)
18:30.35csanyipalHowdy! Success here :)
18:30.49d-lowhat was the culprit?
18:31.36csanyipalWell, I removed many programs, and don't know which one cause the problem. :(
18:31.53d-lostrangeness
18:32.28csanyipalI have here Emacs for Windows too, and maybe it was the problem..
18:32.35csanyipalI had..
18:32.39csanyipalemacs
18:46.52csanyipalSo long!
19:00.24*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyi@91.102.231.33)
19:07.54*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@91.102.231.33)
19:17.45csanyipalWell, on Windows XP in MGED when raytracing a region the Underlay / Overlay command doesn't work. I'm now on Debian GNU/Linux Etch. :) Here MGED works. :)
19:37.38CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33606 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Added the following functions to libged (also modified MGED to use them): ged_debugbu, ged_debugdir, ged_debuglib, ged_debugmem and ged_debugnmg.
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21:30.36*** part/#brlcad saltan (n=lievensa@d51530284.access.telenet.be)
22:06.33CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33607 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (debugbu.c debugdir.c debuglib.c debugmem.c debugnmg.c): Oops, forgot to add the new source files for the last libged upgrade.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090127

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090127

00:30.36*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
00:44.02mafmnight
00:50.39brlcadcya
01:01.41starseekergrowls at in comand
01:01.44starseekercommand
01:03.33brlcadsup?
01:03.49brlcadthat would be a fun command to totally rewrite to be more modular
01:05.12brlcadwould be a little tricky to refactor a few things, like making it a pass-through to primitive-specific commands (e.g. "arb8 create param1 param2 param3 ...", "sph make", etc)
01:05.15starseekerOh, just making the test commands for functionality checking
01:05.33starseekeris getting to figure out legal parameters for all the primitives...
01:06.06starseekeris starting mged testing script for libged work
01:06.12brlcadoh, awesome!
01:06.25brlcadI was thinking about that whilest in the wonderful training today
01:06.34starseekertraining?
01:06.57starseekerpanics
01:06.59brlcadanother construx course that ed and I are in
01:07.03brlcadyou're fine
01:07.03starseekeroh, ok
01:07.05starseekerphew
01:07.15brlcadtoday was 50% overlap with estimation training
01:07.25brlcadnext two days are more to the meat
01:07.33starseekergot to play with financial stuff and car oil changes - got in at 5pm :-(
01:07.36starseekercool
01:07.47brlcadand at least he covered and was familiar with how his practices relate to agile methods
01:08.05starseekerwell, that helps a bit :-)
01:08.16starseekerstill has fond memories of the previous course
01:08.37brlcadyeah, he seems a lot more knowledgable about the differences in different types of projects, research-oriented, production-oriented
01:09.02brlcadhow they relate, how various techniques fall apart
01:09.13starseekerawesome
01:10.31brlcadif anyone wants to talk to the sourceforge staffers, they're hosting an "open house" meeting on the 29th (Time: 2009-01-29 11:00AM Eastern (08:00AM Pacific, 15:00 UTC))
01:10.53starseekerirc?
01:10.57brlcadthey'll open to complaints, requests, comments
01:11.02brlcadyeah on irc
01:11.05starseekernifty
01:11.10brlcadirc.slashnet.org, #sourceforge
01:11.34brlcadit's not the first time they've done it, they started irc meetings about a year ago, have held a couple
01:11.56brlcadis particularly interested in the new trac integration...
01:12.35brlcadI'm not sure if it's a solution in search of a problem, but trac is a much better tracking system than the sf.net trackers
01:12.40starseekerdoesn't really have too much to complain about, aside from the connection being dropped on big commits...
01:12.46starseekernice
01:12.47brlcadfor at least some definitions of 'better'
01:13.37brlcadif you want to kick the tires on it, lemme know and I'll turn it on
01:14.14brlcadthere are about a dozen other apps they've recently integrated too with the new infrastructure, documented somewhere.. (just lemme know)
01:14.48starseekercool
01:14.51starseekerwill look into it
01:15.22starseekeris about to be drivin nuts by the stray character capture in the tcl command window
01:16.26brlcadyou ran into it?
01:16.33brlcadit's *really* easy to fix
01:16.41brlcadIFF you find the keybinding that causes it
01:16.53starseekerlooks like it's popping up when I do a paste into tcl, and then hit return too fast
01:16.54brlcadI fixed "most" of them over a year ago
01:17.12starseekercan't nail it down yet
01:17.36starseekerglares at Tk for allowing it to happen in the first place
01:17.40brlcadcould be a scroll event (including you clicking on the scroll bar)
01:18.24brlcadtk textareas with a scrollbar are very very simple, app code controls pretty much every binding
01:18.53brlcadat least the way we use it -- there's probably a better widget now that does much of it for free, but not back in the day
01:18.59starseekernods
01:19.18starseekernote to self - find better text widget...
01:22.15brlcadnot worth it
01:22.49brlcadit'd take a lot of work to decouple it and if you did everything right, it'd be nearly identical
01:23.05starseekerwouldn't it be a benefit on the maintainance side of things though?
01:23.08brlcadbetter effort spent merging archer with mged
01:23.11starseekertrue
01:23.19brlcadI think its text widget might be newer/better
01:24.58starseekerthat reminds me - how did you want to address the "list of drawn objects" problem?  It seems like a state issue, and libged is supposed to be stateless, but some of the commands need to "trigger" an entry in some list somewhere in MGED, at the very least
01:27.41starseekernot to mention rt itself
01:31.00brlcadhmm.. hehe, now what a thing of beauty .. http://brlcad.org/~sean/tmp/lotii.jpg
01:31.30starseekerheh
01:31.45starseekerwhere'd that come from?
01:31.55*** join/#brlcad schwinn434 (n=schwinn4@75.81.196.139)
01:31.57brlcadlibged operates on a ged structure, which includes lists -- so the commands themselves are stateless, but they are passed lists to operate upon (and have to be written/modified to recognize the ged lists)
01:32.04brlcadjust found it somewhere
01:32.11starseekercool
01:32.13brlcadi think that's all the colors :)
01:32.20starseekerthought for a second it was a raytraced image :-P
01:32.23brlcadexcept two exotics
01:32.47brlcaddon't think the mother-of-pearl one is there
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01:42.15starseekerphew
01:44.12starseekerthat's all the primitives in claims to support in 7.12.6
01:54.37starseekerbrlcad:  I'm going to stick what I've got into svn for safe keeping, but it's nowhere near ready so it's a temporary file name and not being added to the test routines
01:55.09starseekerhowever, using the "would I want to redo this if I lost it" metric i don't want to lose it ;-)
01:56.15CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33608 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Add early stages of mged test script intended to exercise (eventually) all mged commands.
02:04.28brlcadstarseeker: k, just don't forget EXTRA_DIST though in the meantime
02:04.49brlcaddistcheck will fail if files are missing
02:17.13CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33609 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/Makefile.am: put mged_test.sh in EXTRA_DIST
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03:12.30yukonbobhello, cadheads
03:12.34brlcadhowdy
03:24.21*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
03:41.08starseekerbrlcad: I don't suppose there are any docs anywhere on the implementation of sketch and what  { bezier D 4 P { 4 7 9 8 0 } } is actually describing?
03:44.54brlcadbezier curve, degree 4, control points 4 5 9 8 and 0
03:45.39starseekerhmm - so points are defined independently of particular segments?
03:46.26starseekerwhat about { carc S 6 E 5 R -1 L 0 O 0 }
03:48.13brlcadyeah
03:48.18brlcadthere should be a vertex list
03:48.26starseekerweird
03:48.37brlcadlines, carcs, bezeiers, reference indices of that array
03:48.56brlcadS 5 E 4 .. starts at vertex 5 ends at 4
03:49.07starseekerok - R is radius?
03:49.09brlcadR -1
03:49.10brlcadright
03:49.43starseekeris that for storage/efficiency reasons?
03:50.04starseekerwould have stored line, xy start, xy end
03:50.27brlcadyeah, generally way more compact as points are usually referenced at least twice
03:50.59brlcadand it makes for a topological structure
03:51.24brlcadyou know that two line segments actually connect by the fact that they reference the same point
03:51.32brlcadnot just because they are "close" within a tolerance
03:51.41starseekerOK, I can see that
03:51.57starseekerREALLY needs to work on his primitives documentation...
03:53.02brlcadit's pretty common paradigm, most geometry formats do that for all primitives (check out an stl or dxf file sometime to see more examples)
03:53.24starseekernods - I can see the logic, just makes for very unintuitive "interactive" geometry entering
03:53.45brlcadyeah :)
03:53.57brlcadhave to specify all your points in advance
03:54.03brlcadit shouldn't be the interactive form
03:54.47starseekerhmm.
03:55.04starseekerwas setting up the "in" command to do just that, but perhaps that's a bad move
03:55.07brlcadmake interactive whatever is most intuitive for interactive
03:55.17brlcadyou have a lot more flexibility there
03:55.37brlcadnone of the other primitives match the tclget form
03:55.52brlcadat least not 1-1, none that come to mind
03:56.10starseeker's first thought is to specify line segments, arcs, etc. and have the in command figure out the points and make them "available" if the user wants to specify them
03:57.06starseekerhmm
03:57.18starseekerI could really go to town with this if I'm not careful
03:57.26brlcadsince you have the "points" in ascii form at that point (no pun intended), you should be able to dervie the vertex list
03:57.34starseekersure
03:57.42brlcador..
03:58.27starseekerI was thinking to be able to specify either "X,Y" line segments or "2->4" style to save typing
03:58.52brlcadwithout much thought into it, could be similar to the tclget form sans the VL, but allowing 'in' to have segmented sections for each 'primitive' type prefixed with an identifier
03:58.52starseekerI've got to be careful not to make "in" too elaborate though
03:59.19brlcadthen you could specify 'v'ertices as a primitive of their own before use
03:59.34starseekerright
04:00.04brlcadlike if you wanted to make a line:  in sketch sketch v 4.5 2.3 v 8.4 7.4 s 0 1
04:00.07starseekerat user option either specify a vertix explicitly, or have them deduced from more "intuitive information
04:00.51starseekeror, in sketch sketch l 4.5 2.3 8.4 7.4 -> same thing
04:01.02brlcadI don't think you'd be able to deduce index vs value reliably without a hint
04:01.20starseekerl would be the hint - "line segment"
04:01.34brlcade.g. in sketch sketch l 4 2 8 7
04:01.44brlcadis that 4.0 2.0 8.0 7.0 or indices
04:01.55starseekeruse l for xy xy form, s for v1 v2 form
04:02.20brlcadhm
04:02.28brlcaddouble up all the entity types
04:02.32brlcadinteresting thought
04:02.36starseekerright
04:02.46starseekerwhat's "intuitive" will depend on the situation
04:03.04starseekeror the user
04:03.48brlcadcould be something like "s"/"si", "c"/"ci", etc
04:03.55starseekerright
04:04.17brlcadmore to type, but less to remember
04:04.32starseekerand consistent between types
04:13.04brlcadwell, that's one bit you can probably have fun with for sure
04:13.11starseeker:-)
04:13.45starseekerthe sketch editor actually makes a bit more sense now that I get how it's thinking about verticies
04:14.08brlcadyeah, you probably see how the interface basically just directly ties to the data
04:14.39brlcadbecause it was completely written in just a couple days
04:14.48starseekernods
04:15.19starseekersoome sense of scale in the drawing window would probably help
04:15.49brlcadprobably
04:16.00brlcadthough it does auto-adjust based on the points that are created
04:16.12brlcadso they're semi-sensibly normalized to a useful range
04:16.32starseekersure, but you can't SEE that up front ;-)
04:17.41brlcadright, but if I saw the values and saw that the values kept changing on me, that'd be a bigger problem (I'd expect a fixed controllable scale like the 3D view)
04:17.54starseekernods
04:18.37starseekerthinks it would also help to have two panes - one which shows the sketch in its local coordinate system and another which lets the user get at the 3D settings
04:19.29starseekeror, alternately, have the MGED window's display of the sketch object handle that part
04:19.35starseekerjust like any other primitive
04:20.52starseekerbrlcad:  Thanks for the orientation - it really helped
04:21.48brlcadnods
04:22.57starseekerI really should get out of here...
04:22.59yukonbobbrlcad: question: ".a" archives are always "static", correct?
04:23.00brlcadsketch really belongs integrated, just with a distinction of 2D editing operations and 3D editing operations (along with 4D) as separate "interfaces"
04:23.10brlcadyukonbob: .a are static archives, yes
04:27.01Ralithyukonbob, iirc, .a is literally just an amaglamation of .o
04:27.48brlcadpretty much, at least the symbols of the specified .o files plus a table of contents
04:27.54brlcadnot just a concatenation of files
04:28.21brlcadplus/minus a few discrepancies for various platforms over the decades
04:28.26Ralithyeah, not quite that literally.
04:28.48starseeker:q
04:28.53starseekerwhoops, that's not vim
04:29.35starseeker<grin> and now I'm going to go operate a motor vehicle
04:29.37Ralithif I had the power to trigger a netsplit, that would have been an awesome time to do so.
04:29.54starseekerlol
04:29.54yukonbobwtf would libtool be trying to dynamically link a .a?
04:30.02RalithO.o
04:30.13yukonbobwww.pastebin.ca/1319264
04:30.14brlcadyukonbob: because someone specified a .a as an ldadd
04:31.12yukonbobRalith: re: 'amalgamation' -- ya -- .a == archive, which iiuc is actually similar to tar, for example... it has a ToC, etc. and can hold multiple files...
04:31.59yukonbobheh
04:32.10yukonbobsees this has been discussed above...
04:35.39brlcadyukonbob: that pastebin is normal -- it's just a warning that a "libtool archive" (.la) was created that referenced linking against a library for which there was no dynamic library found
04:36.20brlcadso it's saying that it'll have to differ linking until the .la is used whereupon it'll use the .a it found (which is fine for binaries)
04:37.02brlcadit didn't try to dynamically link a .a, it said it couldn't but that was all it found
04:50.50CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33610 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: gah, hard-coding to 5 is a problem on 64-bit platforms where long's can be 64-bit and require a 6 shift. must have been asleep at the keyboard.
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05:21.53*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.0 is now posted (20081108)
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07:01.48yukonbobbrlcad: ok -- thx for that commentary -- I've got more questions/cases coming -- I'm approaching this in a measured baby-step fashion as much as I can... ;)
07:55.37starseek1rdecides sleep is in order...
07:56.27starseekerhumph
08:06.40brlcadheh
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08:56.28csanyipalHowdy!
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12:03.40d-lomernin all
12:04.39mafmmernin d-lo!
12:07.10d-loFinally getting snow here.  Time for some sled action... well after work that is.
12:13.43mafm:)
12:13.53mafmwe had a bit of snow several times, but not very heavy
12:14.01mafmwe never do
12:21.00d-lowell, aren't you somewhat close to the Med?
12:31.09mafmmmm
12:31.15mafmI'll geolocate myself now:
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12:36.50mafmops :)
12:38.59mafmhttp://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=lugo&sll=38.707163,-9.135517&sspn=0.428661,0.76561
12:41.17madantmafm u are at Lugo ?
12:41.27mafmmadant: yep
12:42.03mafmwhy, do you know somebody from there?
12:42.43madantnah.. only Barcelona which is like the other coast right :)
12:42.51madantever been to Siurana ?
12:42.56mafmyep
12:43.05mafm1k km away
12:43.20mafmnope, I don't even know where Siurana is :)
12:43.55mafmabout the proximity to mediterranian sea: alps are closer, pirinees are touching it, and there's a lot of snow there :)
12:44.18d-lomafm: So I see :)
12:44.47``ErikI don't think I can get to the main road
12:44.49mafmbut there are no big mountains around, the tallest are about 2k meters
12:45.48d-lo``Erik: I am begining to see a pattern with you and brlcad:  "Oh i have this expensive, awesome sports car and there is a bit of snow on the ground... guess I'll have to stay home today!"  :P
12:45.51madantSiurana is near barcelona . good for climbing
12:45.53madanthttp://www.master-hunters.com/fotos/siurana.jpg
12:46.23mafm:)
12:46.32mafmI've only been a couple of times in Catalonia
12:46.33d-lomadant: Thats a beautiful picture!
12:46.35``Erikthey're light, have insane amounts of torque and have tires that simply do not grab in snow and rain
12:46.52``Erikmy truck woulda done it, my car cannot
12:47.33d-loTook the Jeep out and had some pseudo-offroading/snowsleding fun this morning :) Its why I got to work about an hour later than norm :)
12:47.35``Erikand amusingly, I think there's more snow on my driveway than I can clear
12:47.56``Erikheh, I had an '80 honda civic stationwagon that I did effin' insane shit in the snow with
12:48.03d-lohow much you have on the ground thus far ``Erik
12:48.15d-loHonda's are great for that.
12:48.25``Erikat one point, I got stuck in mud and snow, ended up pushing it into a ditch and slaloming down to the street below
12:48.40d-loCRX + snow covereed deserted mall parking lot = crazy fun :)
12:48.48d-lolol nice!
12:48.56``Erikum, well, ok, I'm sure it does clear, but I can't see the road or sidewalk, it's hard to make out the curb
12:49.22``Eriklooks lik ea couple inches
12:49.26``Erik~2-3
12:49.27ibot-1
12:49.33d-lolol
12:49.53d-lodamn 'bots always piping up when you don't wantem to.
12:50.05d-lo~What is the meaning of life?
12:50.07ibotI think you lost me on that one, d-lo
12:50.19``ErikI only see 3 cars tracks in the cul de sac here
12:50.21d-loits 42 silly.  Sheesh.
12:50.22``Erik~what is 42?
12:50.23ibot42 is, like, the answer to life the universe and everything, see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/the_answer_to_life,_the_universe,_and_everything
12:50.29``ErikNO ROUND TRIP! FAIL@
12:50.50``Erikis the BC in?
12:50.59``ErikI'm getting no answer on the phone
12:51.09d-loDunno.  They have that Software training thing going on.
12:51.16``Erikohhhh, hrm
12:51.25``Erikthat'd be why I got no answer yesterday
12:51.37d-loif you want, "I saw Erik here today" :)
12:51.49``Eriknah, I'm too honest for all that
12:51.49d-loI think its me an d John A in the whole building.
12:51.53``Erikhrm
12:52.11``Erikdo you have a CoC?
12:52.14``Erikwow, that sounded wrong
12:52.41d-lowe only have abour 1" on the ground up by my house, but by the way the radio and TV are reporting it, you'd think its The End.
12:52.46d-lolol
12:53.13``Erikit's moving east by northeast, so you might get soem more
12:53.34d-loCoC = Cohorts of Chaos.  A Centaur based guild on the game of Shadowbane known for their effective hit and run tactics.
12:53.38``Erikhere's the thing, I can't drive, but I want to work, I d'no if it'd be ok for me to work from home, being open source, etc
12:53.42``ErikI meant chain of command
12:53.51d-lo:D
12:53.56``Erikotherwise, it'd be corrosion of conformity
12:54.08d-loJust leave messages.  If I see someone, I will let em know.
12:54.16``Erikwhich became a pretty decent band when they picked up pepper
12:54.36``Erikyeah buying an outback is looking more and more attractive
12:54.42d-loI saw them when the opened for Metallica during the Poor ol Touring Me tour in Orlando.
12:54.51``Erikuhm, around '93 or '94?
12:55.05d-loOutbank in addition to the M3?
12:55.09d-lo'97
12:55.15d-losummer of '97
12:55.26``Erikmy best bud in high school was hired as a bouncer for metallica and CoC in seattle around '94 or so
12:55.51``Erikyeah, m3 for nice days, outback for not nice days, plus the larger payload
12:55.56``Erikand selling my truck to a neighbor
12:56.31d-loyeah, you told me about the truck.  If you need help pushing it out into the street, lemme know :)
12:56.54``Erikhehehe, well, a neighbors friend wants to buy it to fix it up for his son, and the neighbor is thinking about buying it himself
12:56.56d-loSo... normal Outback or Baja Outback ;)
12:57.17``Erikuhm, they have like half a dozen variants now, I was looking at the 'sports' edition, because I'm, well, stupid
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12:58.59brlcadhas absolutely no aversion to working (or going in to work), else I wouldn't do this for fun and in most of my spare time too
12:59.03d-loNah, not stupid... just enjoys a nice toy or two.
12:59.13brlcadsuckers just pay me to do it too
12:59.17d-lolol
12:59.21brlcadso I buy toys
12:59.43``Erikmorning, "the boy"
13:00.22brlcadnot nice to call mafm2 that!
13:00.41d-lobrlcad: hows the class?
13:00.53brlcadit's alright
13:02.22brlcadmostly a big rehash of things already known, particularly for open source project management, agile practices, estimation techniques
13:02.37brlcadtoday and tomorrow are diff topics, so will see
13:03.02d-loheh, well, known to you mebbe, hence why *I* wanted to go :P
13:04.48d-lobrlcad: you gonna be able to make it to post?
13:04.50brlcadwanting to get into project management?
13:05.16brlcadd-lo: don't see why not
13:06.01brlcadballerina on ice .. just have to take it really slow
13:06.02d-lobrlcad: Yes, actually i do.  And was just asking about the roads because the one's I traveled were not that great and getting worse.
13:06.53mafm2d-lo: :P
13:07.46brlcadmm, frightening :)
13:08.07d-lowell, its not the roads, but the retarded hicks with big trucks that scare me.
13:08.20brlcadnot that, wanting to :)
13:09.18d-loheh, well I have managed my way out of a few wet paper bags in my life so there :P
13:09.45brlcadlike many things, the job is often best served by people that don't want it -- the don't meddle/impose, don't get too involved, have more humble people skills, protect their people better, etc
13:10.27brlcadparticularly for software management, unless you start up a production shop where you're just coding widgets with no research aspect
13:11.13d-lohrm, well, the opposite can be said also.  Too humble/univolved and the leadership aspect is nullified.
13:11.29brlcadsure, it's not black and white
13:11.30d-loIts more a fine balance that makes a good manager.
13:11.34brlcadit's just the bigger trend
13:12.18d-loI'll agree 100% with the micromanagement.  Let the workers work and the leaders lead ;)
13:12.46brlcadit's not just micromanagement
13:12.58brlcadit doesn't take much at all to demotivate
13:13.57brlcadhell, I honestly almost quit over an argument about shutting doors many years ago
13:14.30d-loExactly, which is where a univolved/humble manager will fail.  If a manager cannot set realistic, attainable waypoints/goals with tangible benefits for the workers, morale drops quickly.
13:14.56brlcadauthority or rules without merit or reason is a non-starter in my world
13:14.56d-lobrlcad: as in you wanted your door shut but management said to keep it open?
13:15.41brlcadno, different, but that's for another day
13:15.53d-loI think thats a given, actually.  Very few people nowadays are happy with 'just obeying the rules without knowing the why behind them'
13:16.35d-lookay.  I could just see some of the managers here starting BS like that, lol
13:16.40brlcadpeople bend to the rules *all* the time, put up with crap and find work-arounds instead of fixing the imposition problem
13:17.23d-loheh, never said they didn't bend to them, just said they aren't happy blindly following.  They usually seek the 'Why' or just quit.
13:17.53d-loBut you are right, many people don't try to fix the problem.... thats someone else's job... right?
13:17.56d-lo:)
13:18.24brlcadthe point should be seen in the industry productivity quotia .. that gov't employees on *average* are only 30% productive
13:18.34brlcadcompared to industry's roughly 70% average
13:19.41d-loThats okay though, because Obama will fix that too.  lol
13:19.45brlcadthat implies that on average at least, that gov't workers put up with and allow (or require) more than twice as much overhead process in their work
13:20.21d-lowell, thats assuming that 'Laziness' is either not accounted for or part of overhead :)
13:20.42brlcadprocess for the sake of process "to be safe", process on top of process, inefficiency at every corner, entrenched workers that do negative work
13:20.56brlcadthe class actually touched on net negative programmers, I was really glad to see that
13:21.14``Erikhides
13:21.18d-lolol
13:21.41brlcaddid not know that the rate of negative programmers is actually around 30%
13:21.45``ErikI have an abstract to write, and a fistful of crap I wanna work on, sucks
13:21.48``Erikreally? huh
13:22.04``Erikuh, how did the bz migration go? HRM?
13:22.21``Erikorder of criticality is bz, the suns, then code, right?
13:22.22``Erik:D
13:22.39brlcadthe migration has actually been underway
13:22.39d-lorate.... as in the amount of negative producicity they create or the amount of neg programmers compared to the total amount of programmers.
13:22.43d-lo>
13:22.45d-lo?
13:23.12``Eriksoftware developers have a HUGE difference between 'stars' and 'tards'
13:23.16brlcadd-lo: that on a given team, the team would actually get *more* work done if that programmer was not there
13:23.19brlcadin the long run
13:23.36brlcaddue to bugs that go unnoticed that have to get fixed X months/years from now
13:23.45brlcaddue to overhead communication to keep everyone informed
13:23.57brlcaddue to arguments and disconformity
13:23.59``Erikmythical man month provided brilliant insight in the 70's
13:24.16``Erikbut was mostly ignored by the "powers that be"
13:24.32brlcad``Erik: you'll like one stat .. i'll have to mention it later
13:24.41``Erikheh, pm?
13:24.51brlcadno, i'm just gonna be late
13:24.56brlcadask me about paradigms
13:25.24``Erikok, *shrug* when we're both in the office, I'll jabber about four nickels
13:25.53``Erika bit confused why this can't be said here and now, but *shrug*
13:25.55brlcador here later, I just gotta hit the road :)
13:26.22``Erikah, aight, you're riding what, michelin pilot pros? be damn careful, they don't grab snow/ice owrth a fuck
13:26.37``ErikI have 'em on the front, I refuse to drive cuz I don't feel like dying today
13:26.53d-lo"Today is a good day to die."
13:27.05brlcadmore worried about getting her prettiness all sullied with muck and grime
13:27.10``Erikheh, amusingly, I have a wad of that blood.
13:27.13``Erikbut I disagree.
13:27.45archivistcars are meant to be used
13:27.45``Eriktell ya what, witht he m's, I'm FAR more scared about the fucker behind me not having the braking power
13:28.26``ErikI mean, good street conditions, I can clomp down and stop in half the distance of an average sedan... fuckers tailgate and don't pay attention, it's damn dangerous
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13:28.46d-loyeah, the snow has always been the least of my worries... its all the idiots out there.
13:29.43d-loI'll be watching the roads/storm progress.  I'll jet if it gets too bad.  Although I don't think it will be a problem.
13:29.43``Erikthe, uh, silverado sportback that parks in the same lot, I hit the brakes coming up on paradise, the dude was all sideways and shit from hitting the brakes too hard :( he blew out into the turn lane, but I was crapping my drawers
13:29.54d-lohas been playing ddo and kinda likes it.
13:30.07``Erikyour jeep should be able to track fairly well in this east coast shit
13:30.17``Erikddo?
13:30.27``Erikdance dance OBLIVION?
13:30.39d-lovomits.
13:30.56d-loNo, not that retarded game.
13:31.00d-loD&D online.
13:31.08d-loplaying the 10 day free trial.
13:31.10``Erikdid you see the generic rip-off at the bowling alley?
13:31.25d-loNope, must have missed it.  
13:31.35d-loEither that or my brain blocked it out from my memory on purpose.
13:31.48``Erikthey're redoing shit, it's amusing, in the "arcade" section, there is a ddr rip-off
13:32.04``Erikrichard claims it's going out due to green tube failure
13:32.18d-lo'green tube failure'
13:32.24d-lo... is that medical talk?
13:32.31``Erikcrt shit
13:32.48d-loeww.... who uses crts anymore?
13:33.02``Erikit's a halfassed ddr rip with a little crt and a shitty stomp pad thing
13:33.50d-loheh, I threatend my mother-in-law's life when she mentioned she might get us that DDR pad for Xmas.
13:34.12d-loWe got copies of NWN instead :)
13:34.56d-lohates DDR in case you haven't noticed.
13:36.14d-lohey, where can you find the default size of the Socket buffer at the OS level?
13:38.55``Erikum, usually it's the same as the page buffer
13:39.03``ErikBUFSIZ in uh, stdlib.h I think
13:39.08d-lokk.
13:39.34d-lojustr trying to size a socket buffer intelligently.
13:39.49``Erikmost os's have gone with 0-copy socket buffers, so it's a page
13:41.02``Erikum, the ether spec says 1500, which comes out to like 1486 or something, but frags are recouped immediately now
13:41.07``Erik*think*
13:41.18d-lo1500 bytes?
13:41.25``Erik*fail* 1k is probably a good size
13:41.26``Erikyeah
13:41.51``Erikthere's crap fro "large packets"... heh, I d'no, I don't remember
13:42.05d-lono worries... just looking for a starting point.
13:42.40``Erik1k is safe, 4k is common
13:43.13``ErikBUFSIZ is usually 4k
13:43.39``Erikif you get to the point where it actually matters, you'll know.
13:44.18d-lowell, I will be streaming several MB of data, so I am going to fill the buffer every time..
13:45.50``Erikdon't sweat it until it becomes a problem
13:46.14``Erikfragment collectors and buffers are pretty damn solid these days
13:46.26d-lokk
13:46.33d-loso what you upto today>
13:46.34d-lo?
13:46.55``ErikI need to write an abstract for a conference
13:47.02``Erikand do some adrt/isst work
13:47.05d-loabstract.... what?
13:47.27``Erikuh, some v/l conf up in jersey that BC is all twisted in a knot about
13:47.47d-loso an abstract presentation?
13:48.17``Erikyeah, she wants me to present in like may, but it needs and abstract by end of jan
13:48.41d-lowow... thats a bit ahead of schedule!
13:49.02``Erikgov't is as gov't does
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13:53.49VivekWhere can I get the install instructions for brl-cad ?
13:54.26VivekI have downloaded the 64 bit version and unzipped and untared it
13:54.43d-lowhat OS?
13:57.15VivekUbuntu
13:57.59d-lodid you get the binaries or the source?
13:59.19Vivekd-lo: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad_7.12.2_x86_64.tar.gz?modtime=1209452298&big_mirror=0
13:59.53Vivekd-lo: Source from the above URL.
14:00.42``Erikwhat is the fail?
14:01.02d-lothat looks like a Binary distribution.  try running mged from rel-7.12.2/bin/
14:01.39Vivek``Erik: I need the howto to install it on ubuntu, a pointer to the revelant document would be nice.\
14:02.04Vivekd-lo: I use ubuntu not rhel.
14:02.23d-loVivek: yes, you said that.
14:02.30``Erikthe code is the doc :D I'm not looking at your URL, the source is the one true way, fwiw
14:02.54Vivek``Erik: ahaa
14:03.12VivekI was looking for a install or readme file :)
14:03.25``Erikwe have both an INSTALL and a README
14:03.34d-lolike I said, You downloaded a Binary dist, so 'cd' over to whereveryouuntarredit/rel-7.12.2/bin/ and try running 'mged'
14:04.14VivekSo can you point me to the URL to download the latest souce :)
14:04.34``Erikbeing a 30 year old program, we install to /usr/brlcad/ by default, old school unix style, yo
14:05.00Vivek``Erik: ok...
14:05.06``Erikyes, the sourceforge page has a link to the latest source, it's like 7.14.0 or something
14:05.12d-lolatest tarball of source: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292&package_id=113368
14:05.36d-loor you can get a SVN checkout if you want the latest (perhaps not greatest ;) )
14:06.53Vivek``Erik and d-lo: Thanks
14:08.47d-lonp
14:09.48Vivekoops I had downloaded the binary earlier ;)
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15:41.23starseekerstruggles back to something one might generously call awake and heads in
15:41.46starseekermmm, purty snow
15:41.51starseekerthis should be entertaining
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18:25.10CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33611 10/brlcad/trunk/ (11 files in 4 dirs): Added the following functions to libged: ged_grid2model_lu, ged_grid2view_lu, ged_model2grid_lu, ged_model2view_lu, ged_view2grid_lu, ged_view2model_lu and ged_view2model_vec.
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21:56.37brlcadmm.. today was much better, that was fairly useful or at least interesting
21:57.46brlcadd-lo: that's one of those places where just using libpkg as the underlying transport will save a lot of work
21:58.17brlcadit's a fairly extensively tested codebase as it is that already parcels up and delivers data across a pipe through a fairly simple interface
21:59.19brlcadand it takes care of all of the portability issues that you won't encounter (tcp issues, drop outs, splits, kernel/system buffering, signals, etc) just testing on a couple platforms
22:02.12brlcadalso, fwiw, our INSTALL file is in both the source and binary dists (in binary it's in share/brlcad/VERSION/doc/INSTALL iirc, otherwise the http svn URL helps)
22:41.35*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
23:41.01*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (i=1000@s142-179-54-198.bc.hsia.telus.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090128

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090128

00:56.32mafmnight
01:20.02*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
01:34.55*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.136.2)
03:06.45yukonbobevening cadheads
03:58.24*** join/#brlcad Dr_Phreakenstein (n=phreak@216.151.24.198)
03:58.46*** join/#brlcad schwinn434 (n=schwinn4@cpe-75-81-196-139.we.res.rr.com)
04:11.21*** join/#brlcad cad25 (n=d9d3aa02@bz.bzflag.bz)
04:21.40brlcadevening yukonbob
04:46.35yukonbobwhat's happening, 20h boy?
04:48.09yukonbobHey -- we have an 'atom' primitive, don't we?
04:48.24yukonbobfuckinggooglesit.
04:52.00brlcad20h?
04:52.34brlcadan atom primitive?  there's a 'particle' primitive, otherwise you'd probably be best off using spheres
04:53.23yukonbob20h wakefullness
04:53.43yukonbobparticle is what I was thinking of... what are it's applications?
04:53.43brlcadthere is a 'molecule' procedural geometry database generator that will create a model from Adams format
04:53.48brlcadah, yup
04:54.31brlcadparticle is more of a 'pill' primitive where you have two spheres connected via a tangent cylinder
04:55.09brlcadbasically a pipe with rounded ends and you can independently adjust the radius of both ends
04:56.05yukonbobso, a sort of bar bell?
04:57.59brlcadno, not really
04:58.11brlcadif you want that, the 'molecule' procdb is more appropriate
04:58.21brlcadmore like a pill
04:58.44*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
04:59.02yukonbobwhat prompted it's creation -- seems like a strange primitive, or are there patterns that often call for it?
05:00.04brlcadI forget exactly what prompted it
05:00.04yukonbobah... /me is imagining now...
05:00.24brlcadit's a bastard primitive, I think it should go away when it could be replaced with something more general
05:00.24yukonbobit really is shaped like an aspirin pill, or a 'Go' playing piece... right?
05:00.56brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/part.png
05:01.11brlcadchange the two radii, the shape changes
05:01.27brlcadmake them equal, looks like a pill
05:01.42brlcadotherwise just a cylinder with rounded edges
05:02.40yukonbobsees.
05:02.52yukonboba candidate for a simple macro, it seems to me...
05:03.08yukonbobtruncated cone + couple half spheres
05:03.31yukonbob(or cylinder + half spheres)
05:04.28brlcador whole spheres, just union them
05:04.48brlcada cylinder is a truncated cone
05:05.06brlcadrcc is a tgc (under the hood)
05:05.24yukonbobnods (makes sense)
05:06.03yukonbobany tricks w/ itcl/itk and tcl 8.5 that you can recall since 8.5 became standard?
05:06.20yukonbobs/tricks/build tricks/
05:06.45yukonbobor did it pretty much Just Work
05:15.42brlcadI recall it just working, though had to use the latest of both
05:16.32yukonbobok... fair enough... I'm going to work on getting 8.5.6 + itcl 3.3 working on my box here, then proceed from there...
05:16.43yukonbobitcl4 will be a Future Project
05:17.52yukonbobheh... /me is imagining himself in the third person as irix64
05:18.06yukonbobwho want to see a screenshot of my running compiler?
05:20.18Ralith:P
05:20.29yukonbobRalith: is that a "no"?
05:22.35Ralithhehe
05:22.39Ralithof course not!
05:24.07yukonbobheh... I'll send irix an email to post a png for you...
05:26.38yukonbobnice... here's an old pic I sent as a respose to Irix posting all this "compiler screen shots" and fscking havoc renders.
05:26.54yukonbobhttp://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/brlcad.gif
05:27.49louipcyukonbob: hahhhha
05:29.01Ralithyukonbob: what WM is that?
05:29.12yukonbobprobably wmii.
05:29.20yukonbobI've since moved even more primitive... dwm
05:29.59louipcwhy'd you switch?
05:30.45yukonbobit's a bit hazy -- I think there were some issues w/ wmii and xinerama at some point, then I just switched to dwm (and two displays) and never switched back...
05:31.36yukonbobthe "biggest" feature of wmii (over dwm) is probably their plan9 protocol, like procfs to the wm... which I found confusing and hardly used... so...
05:31.37louipcah
05:32.35Ralithlikes xmonad
05:32.38yukonbobdwm is a single, simple exectuable w/ virtual workspaces and a few org methods (ie: tiling, overlapping, etc) for windows... it works, and that's it.
05:32.48Ralithvery powerful, flexible, lightweight
05:32.54Ralithwith good multi-display support, too, so I hear.
05:32.56Ralithjust has the one
05:33.10Ralithof course, the config file is in haskell, but it's not that hard to hack.
05:33.24yukonbobdwm != flexible, per se. No config. Just #defines in source.
05:35.43Raliththat doesn't sound like much fun.
05:36.33louipcso every user needs their own executable for their own preferences hah
05:37.00Raliththat would be problematic.
05:37.15yukonbobnot that many tuneables though... it's not built for chrome.
05:37.16louipccould be
05:37.34Ralithyukonbob: give xmonad a try sometime ^^
05:37.40Ralithit's shiny.
05:37.45yukonbobheh
05:37.50yukonbobI'll keep it in mind..
05:37.55louipcxmonad is tiling + floating yeah?
05:38.13Ralithit's really a tiling wm, but with support for making windows floating if necessary
05:38.24Ralithso things like modal dialogs don't get annoying
05:38.31Ralithfile selectors, etc
05:38.37louipcI mean to try some of these, but I'm content with openbox so there's no motivation
05:38.48Ralithtiling wms are great
05:38.54Ralithso much more efficient
05:39.00louipchow so?
05:39.14Ralithno wasted screen space
05:39.19Ralithno wasted time rearranging things
05:39.29Ralithno wasted time reaching for the mouse to perform basic actions
05:40.44louipcah. I don't have much window action really
05:41.08louipcjust a few terms and screen pretty much :D
05:41.19Ralithhaving a keyboard driven design from the ground up is a big benefit, though
05:41.32Ralithand you'd be surprised how nice it is to have things not overlap
05:41.47yukonbob^---is true, and unappreciated until tried.
05:41.54Ralithindeed.
05:42.04RalithI used to think it was a horrible idea
05:42.08louipcyeah that is true
05:42.14Raliththen I got into haskell and decided to give xmonad a go just because
05:42.19Ralithnever looked back
08:01.22CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33612 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added some files to be in sync with Makefile.am
08:04.16*** join/#brlcad uwe123 (n=uwe@213.244.124.18)
08:21.34*** part/#brlcad AddZero (n=user@c75-111-103-220.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net)
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11:25.24d-lo``Erik or brlcad :  do you have paulettes extention #?
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13:41.54d-lonuthin eh?
13:42.26d-loAnd here I thought PA would be used to snow.  I have never seen roads this bad after 3 inches of snow + 1 inch of ice....
13:44.19*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
13:49.38``Erikheh, yeah, I chickened out and am hiding from the weather today
13:49.59``ErikI know 6339 rings on paulettes phone, but that's the BC's #
13:57.57d-lofound Paulette's.  its 6304.... 4 more than ed's makes it easy
13:58.36d-loI did a test run of thr roads and ran up to the local gas'n'go place.  Roads are terrible.  Its shocking really.
14:39.41starseekerwill be trying in about an hour or so
14:39.58starseekerthey must be working on them
14:45.19d-loBah... they had all night to work on em.  Its not like this 'storm' was a surprise ;)
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14:59.08``Erikis still hearing trucks scraping O.o
15:05.08*** join/#brlcad carcarcdr (n=user@8.Red-83-63-227.staticIP.rima-tde.net)
15:05.22carcarcdrHi !
15:06.30carcarcdrI have some questions about brlcad ...
15:06.59d-losaw a plow.... about 1/2 away :/
15:07.12d-locarcarcdr: Howdy!  I'll answer any questions I can.
15:07.22d-losaw a plow.... about 1/2 mile away :/
15:10.38carcarcdrthank you so much d-lo ...
15:11.07carcarcdrthe question is I'm evaluating brlcad against Catia and NX6 for a research project ...
15:11.42carcarcdrthe fact is that I didn't find any spline manipulation tool ... tangencies ... etc ...
15:13.07carcarcdrKnow thats CSL tool but it seems too low level for my project isn't it ?
15:21.49d-loHrm, perhaps.  the guy named brlcad in this channel can answer those questions to a higher degree of techincality, but as of right now, we do not have spline capability finished.
16:05.54*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14E54D.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:11.49starseekerwhew.  The Hotchkiss docs require a lot more work per page than the Mark VIII did
17:24.47``Erikhuh, two plows just came through my cul de sac
18:35.28*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.147.171)
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22:02.56brlcadbah, wusses.. :)
22:03.08starseekercame in
22:03.34starseekerwhich doesn't necessarily invalid the point, granted...
22:03.40brlcadthe streets to get out of the city and through aberdeen were absolutely aweful yet I managed to make it in with my little ice buggy
22:04.00starseekerI think it's a reward/risk calculation
22:04.06brlcadyeah
22:04.10brlcadhence, wusses :)
22:05.32brlcadshame, carcarcdr left
22:09.36starseeker<snort>
22:16.21CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33613 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Add run command so mged regression actually does something
22:58.08*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-80.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090129

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090129

00:33.26*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@mail.fbcelkhart.org)
01:30.09mafmnight
01:54.46*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
02:09.30yukonbobevening, cadheads
02:49.05*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-80.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
05:24.58brlcadevening yukonbob
05:59.34*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.150.109)
06:08.11yukonbobis hopped-up on caffeine :P
06:08.17yukonbobnot good at this time of night...
06:22.18*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
06:41.22brlcadoutstanding
06:41.27brlcadso just stay up through the night
06:42.46brlcadstarseeker: cool, now that'd be a pretty good (and feasible) model to capture in detail and match/recreate the drawings
06:55.48yukonbobbrlcad:  :)
06:56.07yukonbobmight pick on an itcl compile issue while up...
07:56.33*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@77-58-236-122.dclient.hispeed.ch)
08:52.26*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
09:34.01*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@65.Red-81-34-125.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
09:34.27mafmhi
09:45.50Dr_Phreakensteinhello
11:09.37*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-80.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
11:27.18*** join/#brlcad newbeesl (n=user@143.Red-79-147-239.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
11:30.04newbeeslHi everybody !
11:30.23newbeeslsearching for help about sketch extrusion parameters ...
11:30.55newbeesli) Y Z ?
11:31.04newbeeslii) X Y Z of H ?
11:31.11newbeesliii) X Y Z of A ?
11:31.21newbeesliv) X Y Z of B ?
12:01.56d-lostretches.
12:02.00d-lomernin all.
12:04.11*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
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13:33.54brlcadyawns
13:38.50d-loheh, stop that... its contagious!
13:41.10yukonbobmorning cadheads
13:49.15d-loMernin yukonbob!
13:49.27``Erikheh
13:49.41``Erikfun drive, d-lo? O.o
13:50.15d-loNot really.  Road was bone dry 'cept one 15 foot swath of "Oh dear god I am going to die" ice :)
13:50.44``Erikup where I live, seemed like there was more ice than road :/ once I got down out of the hills, it was nice, though
13:51.05d-loThe ice was naaaaaaaaasty yesterday, but today seems just fine.
13:51.24``Erikhas more snow and ice on his car than there is on the ground down here O.O
13:51.59d-loI was clearing the walkway to the cars and the snow/Ice i was shoveling on to the hill was skidding almost 200+ feet down the hill and into the main road.  kinda creepy to watch it just keep going and going.  Zero friction.
13:52.18``Erikneat
13:52.21d-loPerhaps snow and Ice appriciate a good car when it sees it.
13:52.23``ErikI had to use a pickaxe
13:53.22d-loI was sooooo tempted to get out the garden hose and create the 'Hill of Death" and go sledding.... but the wife called me stupid and said I couldn't.
13:53.34brlcadaww
13:53.35d-loYou have a pickaxe?  Why?
13:53.43brlcadparty pooper
13:53.56brlcadthat coulda been neat :)
13:54.10d-loAt first I was put out by it, then I realized all the kids would have wanted to go down it also.
13:54.18``Erikso when I get the urge to say "yo, lemme axe you a question", I can back it up
13:54.25d-lolol
13:55.07``Eriknah, every once in a while I have to dig a hole
13:55.51``Erikthen your back yard is basically a thin veneer of clay on scrap rock, you have to do some persuading before switching to the shovel
13:56.32d-lowell, isn't tough ground what led to the use of shallow graves?  Oh, wait, you told me not to mention that stuff.....
13:56.51d-lo:D
13:56.55``Erikbefore this morning, that was the last thing I used it for O.o my poor fishie
13:57.09d-loYou buried a fish?
13:57.12``Erikyeah
13:57.23d-loWow, you are way more compassionate that I am then.
13:57.34``Erikit was too big for burial at sewer
13:57.56archivistfeed it to the cat
13:58.05d-loI dunno, the Porcelean Express can handle quite a bit.
13:58.43``Erika) ain't got a cat, b) would a been too big for cat, c) had a life of weird aquarium chemicals so is probably poisenous to a cat
13:59.10d-lodid you have a 3' catfish or somethin?
13:59.42``Erikum, he was only a little over a foot, but he was a variant of catfish, yes
14:01.11d-lowow.  Catfish might have eated the Cat.  They are pretty mean, in my experience.
14:01.44``Erikpleco, a suckerfish, not a normal catfish but the same family
14:02.25d-lohuh, neat.
14:02.54d-loNever heard of a pet fish too big to flush.  How long did you have him/her/it?
14:03.16``Erikum, eight or nine years?
14:06.18d-loWell, back to work.  See you guys soon.  The standup meeting moved to 1330
14:06.22d-lofyi
14:13.22starseekerk - thanks
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14:55.18starseekerfinishes cleaning up cat barf and heads in
14:55.36starseekerpondering ways to make the cat accept a hair brush
14:57.19archivistmine liked it
15:02.42starseekerours screams
15:05.01d-lodrugs
15:05.17d-lotranq the cat and shave it.
15:07.48starseekerheh - I get in trouble when I suggest that
15:07.54starseekerreally heads in this time
15:10.06archivistsaw a couple of silly cats last night, the fur was too short to comb
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18:09.29CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33614 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Add basic tests of comb and r commands.
19:39.44*** join/#brlcad justin_ (n=justin@39.sub-97-167-194.myvzw.com)
19:44.13CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33615 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: clarify, it's a base2 log
20:02.18CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33616 10/brlcad/trunk/src/liboptical/material.c: tweak the unknown material/shader message slightly so it prints up more neatly.
20:05.54CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33617 10/brlcad/trunk/src/liboptical/material.c: still spell out the shader, fix extra arg.
20:09.22CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33618 10/brlcad/trunk/src/liboptical/material.c: style ws consistency cleanup, comments
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20:11.31*** part/#brlcad spike1 (n=rob@128.220.159.20)
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20:11.43*** part/#brlcad spike1 (n=rob@128.220.159.20)
20:11.59*** join/#brlcad spike1 (n=rob@128.220.159.20)
20:12.17brlcad~spike spike1
20:12.17*** part/#brlcad spike1 (n=rob@128.220.159.20)
20:12.37brlcad~nslookup 128.220.159.20
20:14.34brlcadhm, that's a hopkins ip
20:14.50brlcadah! rob..
20:25.56brlcadstarseeker: did you figure out the compilation problem or still need help?
20:26.08starseekerwell, figured out what was causing it
20:26.10brlcadfrom the glance at the log, libtool archive links weren't right
20:26.13starseekernot why it was causing it
20:26.22starseekerrunning the build from bash rather than tcsh worked
20:26.44brlcadhm
20:26.52brlcaddid you rerun autogen.sh?
20:26.57starseekeryep
20:27.03brlcadstill had same problem
20:27.19starseekeryep - only switching to bash and redoing everything fixed it
20:27.48brlcadk, well that's something then at least
20:30.39brlcadversion of automake and libtool on that system?
20:32.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33619 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_massprop.cpp: quell uninitialized warning since gcc4 is a little smarter figuring out that ON_SymTriDiag3x3EigenSolver does nothing
20:32.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33620 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Add a few more commands to the mged test.
20:33.21starseekerHehe:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/eto_madness.png
20:33.52brlcadcool
20:34.29d-loalmost hurts the eyes....
20:34.38d-lowhat was the raytrace time on that?
20:34.45starseekervery fast, actually
20:34.52starseekerfor that size anyway
20:35.10starseekershould make a carbon nanotube proc-db :-)
20:35.28starseekershould win the "completely pointless" award :-P
20:36.03d-lomake it render fast enough and it might make a cool screen saver!
20:36.22*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
20:39.33CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33621 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: dag nab it, still gotta fix and test the bit vectors with something that doesn't have the function call overhead nor rely on anything in common.h...
20:39.57brlcadmm, think I have a proper fix for that finally
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22:40.50CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33622 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: add build_region, cp and mv to tests
23:28.00CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33623 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: add 3ptarb arb make_bb cpi and mvall to tests
23:28.32brlcadwonders how bleak the tests are looking
23:28.37*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-80.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
23:29.14starseekerhaven't re-run it yet - one sec
23:29.23starseekerneed new 7.12.6 control
23:30.18Ralithhey guys
23:30.26brlcadhowdy Ralith
23:30.58Ralithso given some complex region/collection
23:31.31starseekerbrlcad:  Looks so far like just the expected fallout from the arbs and whatnot being different
23:31.40brlcadthat's great
23:31.41starseekerat least, the failure areas could be accounted for by that
23:31.51brlcadif 'make' is the only thing different, that's not a show-stopper command
23:32.06starseekerinterestingly, the sketch bounding box is different
23:32.13Ralithhm
23:32.17Ralithtrying to think how to describe this
23:32.21starseekerthat's a bit surprising - the sketch was a low level input
23:32.42starseekerstill very very close to zero in all cases though
23:32.47Ralithperhaps I should start with my use case.
23:33.37RalithFor some forms of rapid prototyping, support material is required to allow production of surfaces which slope greater than 45 degrees away from vertical
23:33.50Ralithwhere 45 is really some odd number depending on conditions.
23:34.07starseekerhmm, grip bounding box changed too
23:34.31Ralithit seems to me that it *should* be fairly simple to computationally determine a region for this support material based on surface normals.
23:34.58brlcadsure, Ralith
23:35.30Ralithbut nothing's coming to mind as to how to actually do it.
23:35.35Raliththoughts?
23:36.36brlcadshoot a bunch of orthogonal rays, with each hit, you'll have a hit point and the normal at that point
23:37.14brlcadcheck the angle on each ray, if it fits the criteria, mark that region as needing support
23:38.10Ralithsimple enough. I guess it'd be too hard to do it in a more elegant fashion?
23:38.41Ralithi.e. something that wouldn't reduce everything to a series of thin columns
23:38.51Ralith(not that that doesn't solve the problem)
23:38.52brlcadthere's not any way that comes to mind where you could figure that out automatically for an arbitrary surface
23:39.23brlcadeven one surface patch could have some sections that are within and some that aren't
23:39.41Ralithdidn't think so.
23:39.57Ralithkk
23:39.59Raliththanks
23:49.00CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33624 10/brlcad/trunk/ (TODO include/bu.h):
23:49.02CIA-32BRL-CAD: utilize CHAR_BIT from limits.h so that we can determine our shift size without
23:49.04CIA-32BRL-CAD: relying on common.h/configure tests (since bu.h is a public header). this makes
23:49.06CIA-32BRL-CAD: for bit vectors constructed from much smaller 8-bit blocks, but shows no
23:49.08CIA-32BRL-CAD: appreciable difference on performance benchmarks (x86, 32-bit mac os x 10.4,
23:49.18CIA-32BRL-CAD: gcc4) and specific large-bot testing. CHAR_BIT is POSIX, c99, and c90.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090130

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090130

01:02.47*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-80.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
01:13.23*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
01:59.20mafmnight
02:46.20*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
03:17.46yukonbobhello, cadheads
03:23.43brlcadhowdy
04:34.09Dr_Phreakensteingreetings
05:13.33starseekerscowls at the mirror docs
05:17.21starseekermay be heading into the source code for this one
05:20.37CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33625 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Add prefix to mged tests
05:24.48starseekerhmm - prefix doesn't work when it's scripted
05:27.36starseekerin 7.12.6 anyway
05:27.44starseekershould sleep now...
05:36.30brlcad<PROTECTED>
05:36.53brlcadmaybe just add a XXX - note
05:58.04yukonbobXXX -- Vin Diesel was here.
09:42.46*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@77-58-225-220.dclient.hispeed.ch)
11:05.12*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@65.Red-81-34-125.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
11:12.45mafmhi
12:26.11*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
13:23.29brlcadg'morning mafm!
13:47.40``Erik*yawn*
14:04.09brlcad*yawn*
15:12.38*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@adsl-99-147-180-206.dsl.lgtpmi.sbcglobal.net)
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15:36.08mafm*yawn*
15:42.43*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14E0E5.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:05.10``Erikman, cia is spoiling me. I don't wanna work on the chunk of adrt that doesn't spew to channel :D
16:55.35CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33626 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/gqa.c: Modified the return values of parse_args.
17:22.40*** join/#brlcad smurfette (n=Pandora@c-69-247-220-102.hsd1.mo.comcast.net)
17:33.26*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.139.159)
18:02.56brlcad``Erik: heh
18:03.01brlcadso make it spew
18:03.22brlcadjust takes a filter entry on the bot
18:22.23CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33627 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Add more commands to mged testing
18:31.29*** part/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
18:33.27CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33628 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Add i, keypoint and rm commands to mged testing
18:37.42*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-80.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
18:49.37``Erikeh, spewing internal code from the internal server wouldn't be so hot with the perimeter folk
18:54.35CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33629 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Add arced command to test script
18:56.02brlcadoooh
18:56.06brlcadi thought you meant a diff modulee
18:56.12brlcadnot a diff repo
18:56.28brlcadwould take slightly more than a diff filter too
19:03.12*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@adsl-99-147-180-206.dsl.lgtpmi.sbcglobal.net)
19:38.44*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-80.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
19:59.46CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33630 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/gtools/g_diff.1 src/gtools/g_diff.c): added a rough cut at an "evolutionary" capability to g_diff. This attempts to guess if a change to a region was a natural evolution or if the region was "reworked" in some significant fashion. Requested by lbutler.
20:00.43CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33631 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Add in list of commands to work on next
20:01.41``Eriklaughs evilly
20:04.49brlcado.O
20:33.53smurfettestabs erik in the eye
20:35.33brlcadtough love
20:36.45smurfette:)
20:38.02*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14E0E5.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:40.22smurfettehttp://news.aol.com/article/zombie-road-signs-attack-austin-texas/322482?icid=200100397x1218085198x1201194649
20:40.28smurfettethat's awesome
20:51.33``Erikdrives out the post sign O.o :D
20:55.12*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-80.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
21:24.04CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33632 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/prefix.c: Fixed a bug in ged_prefix (i.e. renamed object(s) not getting written to disk).
21:43.12*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-80.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
22:06.24*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@77-58-225-220.dclient.hispeed.ch)
22:07.12*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
22:07.12*** join/#brlcad Dr_Phreakenstein (n=phreak@216.151.24.198) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
22:07.12*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (i=1000@s142-179-54-198.bc.hsia.telus.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
22:18.01*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-80.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090131

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090131

00:02.31*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-80.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
00:05.52``Erik"this sweater is gorgeous! I'll take one in wife size and three in mistress size"
00:20.25*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-80.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
00:30.53smurfettesee why he deserves the eye stabbings? :P
00:56.59*** join/#brlcad BigATo1 (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-219.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
01:03.13starseekerbrlcad:  Ah, training time again I see :-)
01:23.45*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
01:46.05yukonbobhello cadheads
02:25.24*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
03:09.42``Erikyeah, cuz I quote simpsons :D
04:04.23``Erikhuh, that was a fairly intense episode of bsg
04:05.08``Erikwoulda been better if they wouldn't have shown their little "scenes from the next episode" thing, though
04:07.43brlcadyeah
04:07.50brlcadgood one though
04:12.15``Erikyeah, and only 3/10 of season 4.5
04:12.40``Erikwith a 2 hour tv movie planned sometime after
04:13.28``Erikwonders if he'll ever be able to watch the original series again O.o
04:13.46``Erik(of course, a-team kinda messed that up... "look! it's face! er, I mean, starbuck!"
05:30.49*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.139.159)
07:27.23*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.148.162)
08:40.56*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.142.95)
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09:38.17*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@91.102.231.33)
09:39.06csanyipalHowdy!
09:43.34*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14F39E.dip.t-dialin.net)
09:59.01*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14F39E.dip.t-dialin.net)
10:01.38*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14F39E.dip.t-dialin.net)
10:06.47*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14F39E.dip.t-dialin.net)
10:43.42*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.144.56)
11:37.15*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
11:48.28*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@65.Red-81-34-125.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
13:05.18*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
13:34.30*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
13:46.36*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.136.180)
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14:15.33*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.131.5)
14:18.33*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-219.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
14:26.40brlcadyawns
15:23.59*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.140.144)
15:34.32CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03BRL-CAD Wiki 071234 * r1 10WIKI/www: This is a test
15:34.41brlcadwoo hoo!
15:47.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03BRL-CAD Wiki 071234 * r1 10WIKI/www: This is a test
15:48.06alex_joniis seeing double
15:48.19brlcadgood stuff!
15:48.21brlcadis happy
15:48.38alex_joniemail? or xmlrpc?
15:48.56brlcademail for now
15:49.00alex_jonicool stuff
15:50.53alex_joniwhat type of wiki does brlcad use?
15:50.59brlcadmediawiki
15:52.06alex_joniI see.. thanks
16:00.27CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03BRL-CAD Wiki 071234 * r1 10WIKI/www: This is a test
16:18.08*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14F39E.dip.t-dialin.net)
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17:05.26CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Array['rc_user'] * rArray['rc_cur_id'] 10/wiki/$1/wiki/$1: Array['rc_comment']
17:05.30brlcadaww
17:07.49CIA-32BRL-CAD: 032 * rArray['rc_cur_id'] 10/wiki/$1/wiki/$1: Array['rc_comment']
17:11.08CIA-32BRL-CAD: 032 * r86 10/wiki/$1/wiki/$1: test
17:11.32*** join/#brlcad madant1 (n=madant@117.196.129.108)
17:14.43CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean * r86 10/wiki/$1/wiki/$1: test
17:30.08CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean * r86 10/wiki/$1/wiki/$1: test
18:11.17CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean * r86 10/wiki/$1/wiki/$1: test
18:14.26CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean * r86 10WIKI/FAQ: test
18:26.15CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07WIKI * r86 10/FAQ: test
18:27.31CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07WIKI * r86 10/http://brlcad.org/wiki/FAQ: test
18:46.29madant1err.. wiki on svn ?
18:52.30CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07WIKI * r86 10/FAQ: test
18:59.35brlcadnope
18:59.40brlcadcia notification of wiki edits
19:03.13CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07WIKI * r86 10/: test
19:06.23CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07WIKI * r86 10/wiki/FAQ: test
19:07.15CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07 * r86 10/wiki/FAQ: test
19:27.54CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r86 10/wiki/FAQ: test
19:38.27CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r86 10/wiki/FAQ: test
19:38.50CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r86 10/wiki/FAQ: test
19:40.36CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1164 10/wiki/FAQ: test
19:41.32brlcadwoo hoo, I think that just about does it
19:47.34CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1165 10/wiki/FAQ: test
19:52.15CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1203 10/wiki/FAQ: still testing cianotify
19:56.56CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1204 10/wiki/FAQ: no longer need the my. prefix
19:57.32brlcadoutstanding
20:33.48*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1128565366.dsl.bell.ca)
20:34.25IriX64mysite/terra.png <--- last nights effort :)
20:42.41IriX64mc
20:44.47brlcadweren't you working on a patch?
20:45.10IriX64the --version thing?
20:45.16brlcadinfinitely more interesting than pictures
20:45.30IriX64heh back burner at the moment
20:46.36IriX64could say i don't answer to you but .... you'd probably kick me from the channel ;)
20:50.14brlcadmeh, I can't make you do anything, but the pictures are really getting old and annoying because they are useless and uninteresting
20:50.39IriX64is that everybody's feelings
20:51.16brlcadwhy do you think there have been a half-dozen people try to get you to do something productive?
20:51.20IriX64they're comic releif at worst ;)
20:51.29brlcadno
20:51.31brlcadthey are not
20:51.38brlcadat worst they waste people's time
20:51.45IriX64ah
20:51.46brlcadand are a distraction
20:52.07brlcadif there was a joke, they might have some comedic value
20:52.13brlcadbut it's not funny, never was
20:52.14IriX64what are considered work hours here them?
20:52.40*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-219.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
20:53.10brlcaddo you mean when can you have permission to paste useless and uninteresting screenshots?
20:53.39IriX64yes
20:54.04brlcad*sigh*, then never
20:54.14IriX64ok
20:54.18brlcadif you're not going to change and not going to be productive, you're not helping
20:54.30IriX64noted
20:54.40brlcadyou've said that before
20:54.44brlcadyou don't note it very long
20:55.02brlcadhow about I make it clear and easy then
20:55.12brlcadNO MORE PICTURES (from you)
20:55.24IriX64sure
20:55.40brlcadif you want to contribute in some other way, you're quite welcome
20:55.48brlcadjust no more links to pictures
20:55.58brlcador hints at links
20:56.28brlcador whatever weaseling one could think of, no refs to pics
20:58.57*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.129.242)
21:55.38*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
22:04.39yukonbobhello, cadheads
22:23.26madantthinks wiki-updates on cia is awesome :)
22:25.49*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-219.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
22:39.13*** join/#brlcad DavidChipman (n=david@CPE0014bf4ab5ca-CM000f212f943c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
22:39.21DavidChipmanHi there..
22:40.09DavidChipmanI'm having trouble building BRL-CAD on Ubuntu 8.10
22:40.25madantwhat trouble ?
22:41.18DavidChipmanThe configure script can't find TCL, or TK, and BRL-cad can't build them either.
22:41.22madantmost common issue is not using --enable-all while configuring :)
22:41.31madantuse --enable-all and try
22:42.12DavidChipmanOK.... running configure right now. It's gonna take a while
22:42.21brlcadBRL-CAD "can't build them either" means what?
22:42.50DavidChipmanIt tries to look for a file called tk.h, aand doesn't find it.
22:43.11DavidChipmanI'll post the errors (somwhere?)
22:43.13brlcadduring what stage of the build?
22:43.16brlcad~bzpaste
22:43.26brlcadhrmph
22:43.38brlcadpastebin.bzflag.bz will work
22:43.44DavidChipmanI'm almost finished configure. I'll let you know.
22:43.55DavidChipmanOK..
22:45.52brlcadall of BRL-CAD's external dependencies are bundled in so configure has three modes of working -- 1) build all of the dependencies ourselves and don't use any system-installed versions, 2) don't build any of them and only use system-installed versions, or 3) automatically detect available system-installed versions and use the ones we find and build the rest
22:46.00DavidChipmanBuilding now. I'm collecting stderr in brlcad.err
22:46.25brlcada unified log would probably be more useful :)
22:46.36DavidChipmanWell, the configure doesn't detect my tcl/TK 8.4 install
22:46.41brlcadsince it'll have what directory it traversed into, what files were compiled, etc
22:46.54brlcadthere's probably a reason for that
22:47.29DavidChipmanOK. (stupid question?): How do I do that?
22:47.32brlcadburied deep in the various configure tests it determined it wasn't usable, probably had a big <<<<< section too ;)
22:47.46DavidChipmanThe unified log you're looking for
22:47.55brlcadmake 2>&1 | tee build.log
22:48.10brlcad(presumes a posix-style shell)
22:48.12madantloves tee
22:48.23DavidChipmanAgh, of course...
22:48.32DavidChipmansmacks head
22:48.42brlcad2>&1 being the trick to unify the outputs by sending err to out
22:48.47DavidChipmanShoud I just stop the build?
22:48.54brlcadsure
22:48.56brlcadit won't hurt it
22:49.03DavidChipmanmake clean?
22:49.06brlcadnah
22:49.16brlcadit'll pick up from where you killed it cleanly
22:50.02DavidChipmanTrue enough, it's runing again, with the build log set up.
22:50.43DavidChipmanIt also didn't find Itcl (but I don't thin that's installed anyhow)
22:51.02brlcadthat would probably be why it couldn't use your tcl/tk
22:51.04DavidChipmanJust out of interest, what is TCL/TK used for?
22:51.44DavidChipmanHuh? They aren't either/or then?
22:51.54brlcadif you didn't have itcl, it would have had to use the one we provide -- the one we provide is the latest and requires 8.5 tcl/tk
22:52.26DavidChipmanAgh <spews profanity>.
22:52.39brlcadso you either had to install an itcl that works with 8.4, or let ours build (which is what it's doing now)
22:53.00DavidChipmanThanks..
22:53.09DavidChipmanI think.. ;)
22:53.16brlcadwhich should have happened by default either way
22:53.23brlcadif you ran into a build failure, that's something else
22:53.55DavidChipmanHuh? I'm now goign to try and get itcl installed
22:54.14brlcadthat incompatibility was mentioned via a big <<<<< section in the configure output
22:54.45brlcadyou shouldn't need to, at least it shouldn't matter
22:54.51DavidChipmanOK, I'm installing OTCl now..
22:54.57brlcadbrl-cad will compile and install isolated into /usr/brlcad anyways
22:54.59DavidChipman(ITCL, I mean)
22:55.23brlcadhas to also include the itcl headers
22:56.28DavidChipmanWell, I;'m now the proud owner of an ictl 3 installation ;) including itcl3-dev. I thought of that. Don't worry. Not that "thiick"
22:57.43DavidChipmanIt's building opennurbs right now..
22:57.58brlcadbtw, the only one we can generally guarantee is the enable-all option since we can fully control it -- mixtures of system and non-system components are rather finicky
22:58.04brlcadwow, that's a slow box
22:58.42DavidChipmanPentium D, 2.26 GHz...
22:59.10brlcadafter it finishes opennurbs, it'll be about 25% done
22:59.29DavidChipmanThankks for the progess report
22:59.38madantmaybe make -j4
23:00.02brlcadyeah, utilize all your cpu's if it's an smp
23:00.15DavidChipmanStart make *over again*?
23:00.26DavidChipmanbursts into tears
23:00.31DavidChipmanLOL
23:00.43madantdon't worry it will pickup from where you left it :D
23:00.59DavidChipmanI know, but.. agh....
23:01.10IriX64there's usually a trail of bread crumbs :)
23:02.47DavidChipmanI'm not sure I understand, IriX64
23:03.20DavidChipmanBuilding with -j4 option
23:03.58IriX64has a dual core, both are utilized
23:04.02DavidChipmanGoing faster now....
23:06.49*** join/#brlcad Nikty (n=nicholas@89.163.117.94)
23:07.07*** part/#brlcad Nikty (n=nicholas@89.163.117.94)
23:14.49brlcadif you want it to use your system libs, you would have to start over with a make clean, otherwise it's going the --enable-all route
23:15.45brlcadwhich frankly, I think you should just use --enable-all and let it build everything .. if that works, make it through the tutorials with your sanity intact, then can reinstall more leanly
23:17.58yukonbobbrlcad: does the --enable-all install -everything- under PREFIX, or similar?
23:18.05brlcadyep
23:18.23yukonbobie: all binaries and required libs.
23:18.58yukonbobgets off his high horse and prepares a --enable-all installation...
23:29.00``Erikwait, I thought the manuals were there to induce the minimal amount of insanity required to use the software? O.o
23:29.41``Erikwiki update notifications... neat, but ugly colors, and what happens when the spam bots find it? :D
23:31.02brlcadthere have been no spams to the boards since they went live with the captcha checks and blacklists
23:33.05``Erikcool, but I'm imagining the spammers are constantly looking for ways to subvert the defensive mechanisms
23:33.37brlcaddidn't you read the thing about not succumbing to speculative fears
23:33.58brlcadeven if someone does, now we'll get instant notification when it happens and can do something about it
23:34.02``Erikis an anti-color nazi on irc, almost ever color has a special meaning in his precious bx, so he gets confused
23:34.15brlcadI have no color here, so dunno what you're talking about
23:34.20brlcadturn your color off
23:34.21``Erikyeah, *shrug* ain't no such thing as unhackable, it's risk management, etc etc etc
23:34.48``Erikheh, that'd involve looking at shitty docs or shitty code, and I'm illiterate and lazy :D
23:35.16``Erik(though that is a good idea *ponder*)
23:35.45``Erikhow does a new feature on the old machine impact the migration?
23:36.05brlcaddoesn't thusfar other than having been an 8-hour distraction to implement it
23:36.34``Erikso the mediawiki plugins aren't going to be carried via backups?
23:36.37brlcadpretty snazzy, though .. I'll have to upload that to the official extensions list for others
23:36.39``Erikrsync or something?
23:37.02brlcadthey will, the backups are just backups though
23:37.30brlcadbackups just take a few min to run to rsync the recent changes
23:37.40brlcadthe /usr/web copy hasn't happened yet
23:38.38DavidChipmanLooks like it built this time!
23:43.14``Erikw00t
23:44.41yukonbobconcurs
23:46.31brlcadindeed
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23:54.52``Erikponders finishing the porting of a project so he can eliminate the gnome1 stack from his server
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090201

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090201

00:04.24DavidChipmanErik, you've still got gnome1 on your system?
00:05.13DavidChipmanBTW all, thanks for your help.. Now to figure out while things weren't found earlier..
00:05.36DavidChipmanI really wouuld rather use the system installs for things..
00:05.54DavidChipmanIs ther a reason we're using such a new TCL/TK version?
00:07.14DavidChipmanbbl
00:10.28brlcadDavidChipman: much longer talk, but yeah there were a variety of reasons for bundling a newer version -- the fact that you can link against 8.4 was a bit of back-porting so that either would work
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00:55.58DavidChipmanbrlcad, What do you mean I could link against 8.4? It refused to find it!
00:58.51DavidChipmannot that it matttttters now. I''m running the benchmark..
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01:03.13DavidChipmanwb, madant
01:03.31madanthad gone for my morning run :)
01:05.39DavidChipmanAh, Ok. I't's evening here
01:06.10madant6:36 am here now :D
01:06.27madantso how are u liking mged :)
01:11.48DavidChipmanHaven't had a change to run it yet, going through the benchmark
01:12.05DavidChipmanI'm a complete noobie to BRL-CAAD
01:12.08brlcadit found it, determined the version, and refused to *use* it
01:12.25DavidChipmanWhat brlcad?
01:12.35brlcad19:55 < DavidChipman> brlcad, What do you mean I could link against 8.4? It refused to find it!
01:12.59brlcadit'll link against it just fine
01:13.04DavidChipmanOh, OK. Thought you were interjecting about mged! Whoops!
01:13.05brlcadjust has to have a matching itcl
01:14.04DavidChipmanI understand.
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06:52.52starseekerbrlcad: BTY, it looks like the changes to the make command for arbs were intentional - we should probably add a NEWS item about that so it's at least announced
06:54.14CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33633 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Add test for copymat command
07:14.52CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33634 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Add tests for push, putmat and xpush commands
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08:21.33brlcadstarseeker: go for it
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15:33.08troelshello there
15:33.25troelsCan I pose a quick question about brl-cad?
15:36.41elite01don't ask to ask, just ask
15:36.52elite01although i probably can't answer it, someone else will
15:39.11troelsvery well.. I was wondering how the autocad DXF export is implemented? Do you use licensed libs from autodesk, or have you implemented something yourself?
15:40.28troelsThing is, I am looking for an open-source library to read/write autocad DXF files, if such a thing exists.
16:03.08``Erikour own special stuff, for a subset of dxf type things. it's in src/conv/g-dxf.c
16:03.47``Eriksorry, src/conv/dxf/g-dxf.c
16:05.16``Erik(only does triangle meshes)
16:16.09troelswhat's the license? Is it ok to use for commercial application?
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16:29.03``Erikblah
16:29.45``Erikthe license is LGPL
16:31.00``Erikif you mean closed source instead of commercial, you'd have to go through some hoops to comply with the license (changing the code designed to create an executable into one making a library, and making that library's source available, or providing object files for 'all the other stuff', so the g-dxf.c can be recompiled and everything relinked)
16:31.11``Erikuh, gnu.org would have a good description of the constraints
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16:32.42troelsok. Thats great. I think that would be the strategy anyway, as it is supposed to serve a program in an interpreted language anyway.
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17:12.25brlcadturning any of our libs into a converter would be a good thing
17:12.37brlcadneed to sort out a callback api at some point
17:12.58brlcadso they can be migrated into plugin-libs for libgcv
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17:44.07brlcad~vc
17:44.08ibotthe BZFlag development platform of choice.
17:44.12brlcadheh
17:44.18brlcad~.vc
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18:18.58CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1205 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_g: reword the object names in the example since .nmg could be confused with a primitive
18:23.53*** part/#brlcad brianko (n=brian@unaffiliated/brianko)
18:32.05CIA-32BRL-CAD: 0398.218.53.50 07http://brlcad.org * r1206 10/wiki/Overview: give the gallery some firm sizes so the images can be resized
18:32.10brlcadloves it!
18:32.30brlcadi'm inclined to edit more wiki pages even..
18:32.38brlcadand turn off my rss notifications..
18:32.53brlcade-mail diffs would be nice though
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20:50.32brlcad``Erik and starseeker -- if you're feeling spontaneous, having a superbowl party today and you're welcome to come on by
20:51.00brlcadcouple folks are already here, game starts around 6
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090202

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090202

00:37.42*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
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02:14.28CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33635 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Add basic tests for accept, reject and tra commands
02:17.49starseekerwoot - commit during superbowl
02:19.11starseekerchalks up another nerd merit badge
02:21.52Ralithheh
02:22.22``Eriksuperwhat?
02:23.02``Erikdangit, missed brlcad's gala :(
02:23.10``ErikI should look here more often heh
05:16.17starseekerbrlcad:  Hmm.  the hyp primitive isn't behaving correctly where commands like tra are concerned
05:16.38starseekerbrlcad:  Do I need to implement an xform function or some such?
05:16.59starseekerit could be my clever little external/internal parameter setup is coming back to haunt me
05:33.56brlcadstarseeker: hm, hyp should be complete
05:34.28brlcadand, hehehe regarding superbowl commit :)
05:34.28brlcadfantastic
05:35.01brlcadI'd actually never made an 'event' of the 'bowl before, but more an excuse to have folks over and watch on the big screen, listen to some tunes, watch some shows
05:35.32brlcad``Erik: next time!
05:40.54CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33636 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/hyp/hyp.c: rt_hyp_xform() isn't used. it uses rt_generic_xform().
05:41.45brlcadstarseeker: dunno what you mean, it worked back when I originally tested it, and it's just using rt_generic_xform() .. which 'should' be right..
05:55.07starseekerbrlcad: sorry I didn't make the bowl game, sounds like it was a good one!
05:55.15starseekerbrlcad:  Hmm - let me try again
05:55.53starseekerThe following results in strange behavior for me:
05:55.56starseekermake hyp.s hyp
05:56.00starseekersed hyp.s
05:56.06starseekertra -10000 0 0
05:56.49starseekerand reset doesn't return to where it was
05:58.35starseekerOH, I see
05:58.55starseekerit's not the parameters that are misbehaving, it's the view itself
06:00.12starseekerhmm - that somehow feels unexpected to me, looking at the before and after...
06:01.26starseekerah ha - reset is NOT returning it to the origin
06:02.56starseekergrr
06:03.22starseekerok, later for that
06:26.49yukonbobhello, cadheads
06:45.35brlcadstarseeker: hm, that could just be a bug with the libged migration
06:51.35brlcadif it does it differently for ell/sph/tor/whatever, that'd be a problem, otherwise it's just a decision
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09:07.53brlcadhowdy mafm
09:12.33mafmhi brlcad
09:12.45mafmisn't a bit too early (late) for you? :)
09:15.01brlcada lil bit
09:15.11brlcadup late working on some things
09:15.46brlcadcode code type type design
09:19.32mafmyou're coding I hope, designing stresses the brain harder :D
09:27.48brlcadboth
09:31.52mafmuhg :P
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10:34.23ruskielo
10:34.56ruskietrying to build 7.14.0 but getting a: bombardier.c:36:16: error: tk.h: No such file or directory \n make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/brlcad-7.14.0/src/util' error
10:35.24ruskieand yes I tried with --enable-all and with using the system one(but that failed differently as well)
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12:59.43brlcadruskie: ah, that was fixed shortly later -- edit src/util/Makefile.am
12:59.56brlcadshould have in it: bombardier_CFLAGS = ${TK_CPPFLAGS} ${TCL_CPPFLAGS}
13:00.54ruskiewill try that
13:01.02ruskieit should be possible to build with system libs right?
13:02.02brlcaddepends on the libs
13:02.10brlcadbut sure, it's possible
13:02.21brlcadrarely happens for anyone to get all 'no'
13:02.25ruskieplain vanilla upstream sources
13:03.48brlcadyeah, all of the sources aren't modified except for openNURBS (that's an entire subsystem)
13:06.04ruskieyeah won't touch that one never really planned to as well
13:06.21ruskiebut want to make the source mage spell use as much system libs as possible
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13:11.26Axman6http://www.todaysbigthing.com/2009/01/30 awesome
13:12.16brlcadruskie: ah, yeah.. with a package management system, you should be able to get nearly all 'no' if they're already in the system
13:12.38brlcadthe hard part is mixing tcl extensions with some system and some non-system
13:13.02brlcadlike if we have to build incrTcl, that then requires a specific version of tcl/tk too (8.5)
13:13.23ruskie8.5.7 is the one we have atm
13:13.40ruskieI'll have to probablly make a few extra spells like for tkhtml3 and such like...
13:14.26ruskieall this just so I can open up the openmoko gta02 cad files.. :)
13:16.46brlcadspeaking of opennurbs .. full support for the geometry formats contained in those pro/e, iges, and step cad files is part of our ongoing development
13:17.13brlcadyou'll get them in wireframe now -- there's been debates over whether you can get a shaded view rendering of the nurbs surfaces
13:18.39ruskiethey are available in all 3 formats...
13:19.45ruskieI thought the defacto standard were autocad files... dxf or whatever those are..
13:21.38brlcadnot really
13:22.07brlcadthey only support a couple geometry formats and are inherintly non-solid for certain entity types
13:22.20brlcadiges was the main format for years, but step is the newer iso standard
13:22.24brlcadsupports everything under the sun
13:22.52brlcadwe don't yet have a step importer, though -- at least not till end of year, it's being worked
15:15.11PrezKennedybrlcad, have you seen the story on SourceForge about forgemil.com?
15:15.26PrezKennedy*er
15:15.30PrezKennedyi mean slashdot
15:19.34brlcadyeah
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15:21.05PrezKennedyat first it looked like a phishing scam with the poor whois information and the way the certificates were done
15:23.08``Eriknah, gov't always fucks up whois and certs
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15:24.02``Erikbeen a big stink in apples fedtalk about the new cross-dept stuff the af is rolling out never having valid certs O.o too many people going "whuddya mean it's not valid? I'm the damn gov't!"
15:24.49brlcadthe first project was started by an intern, probably registered it himself
15:25.57``Erikhas created certs for 'secure' websites at work O.o :D
15:26.37brlcadyeah, almost guaranteed it was something similar to our forge, just this kid made it public and sound official
15:35.04PrezKennedybrilliant
15:35.22PrezKennedywas wondering why it was forgemil.com
15:35.36PrezKennedyif the military cant even get a mil address, who can??
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15:44.57brlcada kid that didn't want to go through the process
15:45.52``Erikmissed something
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15:46.54brlcadlots of regs about what you can and cannot do, I suspect that site won't be up for much longer with that name if it was an internal job
16:10.41PrezKennedyregs upon regs and regs on those regs
16:33.35starseekerbrlcad:  there's no doubt - the H and A vectors need to be defined relative to the hyp origin, and tra is adding to each vector individually
16:34.24starseekerthe eto manages this, but I'm not sure how
16:35.06brlcadthe tgc doesn't, though.. and hyp should match tgc almost identically (at least in terms of xform and parameters)
16:36.27starseekerthe vertex and the top do move with a  tra on the tgc, but the H vector does not
16:36.37starseekernor do A, B, C or D
16:37.13brlcadhave you looked at how rt_generic_xform() does what it does?
16:38.10starseekernot yet - been trying to figure out how tgc/eto are distinguishing between points to translate and points not to
16:38.29brlcadAHA, I bet I know where the bug is
16:38.42brlcadrt_generic_xform() relies on just passing a transformation matrix to export()
16:38.51brlcadI bet hyp's export() routine is doing some bad juju
16:38.57starseekerah
16:39.26brlcadthat should be easy to pinpoint, just look for export5 in src/librt/primitives/hyp/hyp.c
16:39.33brlcadrt_generic_xform() is in src/librt/table.c
16:40.03brlcadunless someone moved everything ;)
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16:52.44starseekerhmm - tgc is using a vec that's fastf_t vec[3*6], and hyp thinks it has one that's vec[ELEMENTS_PER_VECT *  4] - that suggests quaternions to me in the case of hyp...
16:54.50starseekerseeks the Wisdom of Bob
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17:09.56starseekerodd...
17:10.27starseekerdoesn't see anything earth shaking in export, aside from (perhaps) the size of vec
17:17.45starseekerlooks like the magic happens before export5
17:17.58starseekeror at least, before the second call to export5
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18:51.55brlcadstarseeker: oops, I meant import
18:52.13brlcadrt_generic_xform() does an export/import to apply the transform
18:52.25brlcadexport just takes units, import takes the matrix to apply
18:52.41brlcadso any matrix math in import5() for hyp is probably suspect
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18:53.20brlcada vec[ELEMENTS_PER_VECT*4] would more likely just be a homogenous 4x4 matrix
18:53.59brlcadvec[3*6] sounds like 6 basic vectors for each of the tgc params
18:56.54brlcadif that fails, kick off the debugger and put a break on rt_generic_xform() and follow what happens on a simple tra
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19:03.00CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33637 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: bokkers reported that using file->export doesn't seem to be working on windows xp. probably some i/o failure or tempfile issue. waiting for tests of 'keep'.
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19:26.18starseekeryes, import5 is wrong - what's right seems a bit subtle though - is mat_t documented somewhere as to what each entry represents?
19:28.37brlcadmat_t is a standard 4x4 homogenous matrix
19:29.23brlcadsome useful links: http://www.geocities.com/evilsnack/matrix.htm  http://planning.cs.uiuc.edu/node111.html  http://www.ee.unb.ca/tervo/ee4353/htm.htm
19:29.54starseekerk, thanks
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19:29.59brlcadthe upper-left 3x3 basically control translation, rotation, scaling, and shearing factors
19:30.30brlcadthe outermost controls homogeneity
19:31.38brlcader, 4x3
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19:32.40brlcadif you read up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformation_matrix .. it gets to homogeneous coordinates in the affine transformation section
19:32.52brlcadthat's basically the deal
19:50.07starseekerbrlcad:  is there a utility to print out a mat_t?
19:50.19starseekerwhen debuggin?
19:55.29starseekernevermind, found it - bn_mat_print
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20:14.33starseekerAh HA
20:15.32CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33638 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/hyp/hyp.c: Fix bug with handling of transformations on hyp primitive - shouldn't be treating vectors like points.
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20:23.23CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33639 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/librt/primitives/hyp/hyp.c): Base to neck ratio in hyp should not be scaled with other parameters, result is unexpected - update NEWS file.
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22:11.39CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33640 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Add tests for translate, mirface, permute, facedef
22:24.03CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33641 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Clean up some of the mged_test tests a bit, fix obvious errors
22:29.18brlcadstarseeker: nice work!
22:29.32starseekerbrlcad:  thanks!
22:30.04starseekerderives satisfaction from stomping the last known hyp bug - that had been nagging at me for a while off and on.
22:34.40brlcadinteresting that it'd be getting a transformation matrix with non-zero 12/13/14 positions
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090203

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090203

00:25.26*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@61-69-0-149.netspeed.com.au)
00:45.43mafmnight
02:32.34*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@64.186.207.104)
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03:04.12yukonbobhello, cadheads
04:09.09*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1178015020.dsl.bell.ca)
05:25.29CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33642 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (Makefile.am spring.c): Definitely NOT ready for prime time yet, but the rough outlines of a proc-db logic for spring generation are now working well enough to generate a reasonable looking pipe.
05:57.36brlcadyou started that back in 2008? :)
07:42.15*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.2 release this week (20080202)
07:53.28brlcadimplodes
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08:19.56ruskieerm...
08:20.34ruskiebrlcad, you sure you got the date on that right?
08:30.24*** join/#brlcad Defcon (i=defcon@mail.cavale.be)
08:30.39DefconMaloeran, still alive?
09:34.38*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
10:49.58*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@bz.bzflag.bz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
11:05.19*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@65.Red-81-34-125.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
11:52.23*** join/#brlcad brlquestions (n=user@126.Red-79-145-176.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
11:52.36brlquestionsHi everybody !
11:53.32brlquestionsSomebody listening ?
11:55.11d-loMost of the time, yes.  If there isnt any response in the channel, just drop a question and check back later.  Most all the Devs read the backlog
11:55.27brlquestionsOK thanks ...
11:55.37brlquestionsHere it is:
11:55.52brlquestionsI'm performing some sketch extrusion ...
11:56.08brlquestionsit seems to be a closed loop sketch.
11:56.28brlquestionsI verified that looking at the ascii code and checking all sketch nodes
11:56.42brlquestions(beziers connected with arcs)
11:57.05brlquestionsafter the extrusion I perform some volume boolean operations with other solids
11:57.25brlquestionsand after that it raytraces correctly but I can't export to STL with the
11:57.30brlquestionsfollowing error message:
11:57.56brlquestionsrt_extrude_tess: A loop is not closed in sketch frontal
11:57.57brlquestionstessellation failed!!
11:57.57brlquestionsnmg_booltree_leaf_tess(ext): tessellation failure
11:58.00brlquestions<PROTECTED>
11:58.03brlquestions0 triangles written
11:58.13brlquestionsWhat can I do to ensure my sketch is closed ?
11:59.31brlquestionsThank you very much in advance !
12:00.44d-loWell, brlcad himself will need to chime in on this when he wakes, but I would really need to see the sketch and the resultant .g file.  dloman77@gmail.com if you want to have me take a look at it.
12:03.10brlquestionsOK thank you !
12:11.36starseekerbrlcad:  er, no - copy/paste fails again
12:17.35d-lobrlquestions: Took a look at the data, and it seems sound.  I am wondering if tesselation/facetization is implemented for sketches and extrudes.  If there is, there might be a bug since I was getting treewalk errors.  
12:18.04d-loI can't help ya, but mebbe someone else can shed light on the subject.  Its just barely morning here, so give it a few hours.
12:19.15brlquestionsOK thank you. So the data seems to be well connected is it correct ?
12:19.50d-lobrlquestions: It looks correct, but I didn't go Vertex by Vertex.  I don't have *that* much free time :)
12:20.22brlquestionsOK thank you again ... I'll wait for more opinions.
12:42.24brlquestionsAfter performing some additional checks and examples ...
12:42.43brlquestionsI found that loops made of arcs mixed with beziers and other arcs don't extrude
12:43.00brlquestionswell for the STL export routine.
12:43.30brlquestionsClosed beziers work well and also circles but not closed with arcs.
12:43.57d-lowas this discovered via experimentation or documentation?
12:44.05brlquestionsexperimentation ...
12:44.33d-loAh, well then good to know.  Will you still be able to complete what you set out to do?
12:45.14brlquestionsSorry I didn't understand your last sentence ...
12:45.25brlquestionscan you reformulate your question ?
12:45.52d-loWill you be able to complete your project?
12:46.30brlquestionsI would like to combine arcs with beziers in sketches beeing extruded ...
12:46.48brlquestionsanyway I can recompute arcs as beziers to join them together ...
12:47.17brlquestionsbut it would imply many development hours ...
12:47.47brlquestionsI was thinking also if maybe it has to do with order in which entities are
12:47.52brlquestionsposted into the sketch ...
12:48.27brlquestionslike joining two arcs between points 13 and 14 / 14 and 13 or 13 and 14 ...
12:52.50starseekerd-lo:  when does training start?
12:55.32d-lostarseeker: The security thingy?
12:55.39starseekeryeah
12:56.07d-loMy calendar says 1300
12:56.12starseekerk - thanks
12:56.23d-lonp
12:56.35starseekerwill hit gym this morning then
13:01.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33643 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/spring.c: Uh, yeah, didn't start this in 2008 (thanks Sean)
13:12.56ruskiehmm brlcad or anyone else... can itcl 4 be used instead of 3.3?
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14:08.21``Erik_sweet, 7.14.2 was released a year ago, we're getting so good, we release before we start!
14:14.58``Erikbleh, all cuz some fuckwit had to ask how they'd know we were there *sigh*
14:56.26brlcadruskie: heh, I guess not
14:58.37Defcon-hey brlcad :)
14:58.42Defcon-long to no C
14:58.53Defcon-have you heard of maloeran lately?
14:59.25brlcadDefcon-: define lately
14:59.25Defcon-also, time*
14:59.30Defcon-last 6 months
14:59.33brlcadhad lunch with him a few months back
14:59.49brlcadprobably about 4-5 months ago
15:00.09Defcon-hmm
15:00.16Defcon-and in here?
15:00.30Defcon-or by other means of communication?
15:00.35brlcadbrlquestions: that sounds like a bug in the extrude tessellation routine, can you make a tracker item for it?
15:00.54brlcadtessellation support was just added the last release, so bugs were bound to be there
15:01.16brlcadDefcon-: erhm, lunch as in sitting next to him eating lunch :)
15:01.27Defcon-yeah :)
15:01.36Defcon-but more recently ?
15:01.40brlcad~seen malorean
15:01.42ibotbrlcad: i haven't seen 'malorean'
15:02.03Defcon-Maloeran is in the channel
15:02.19Defcon-~seen Maloeran
15:02.20ibotmaloeran is currently on #brlcad (7d 9h 29m 35s), last said: 'Hey Hal'.
15:02.41Defcon-last said: 'Hey Hal'. <== when was that?
15:03.07Defcon-~seen Defcon
15:03.08ibotdefcon <i=defcon@mail.cavale.be> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 6h 32m 29s ago, saying: 'Maloeran, still alive?'.
15:03.14Axman6how long's ibot been around?
15:03.15Defcon-hmm lol
15:04.00brlcadI talked to him in here a couple months ago more recently
15:04.04brlcadbut it wasn't an in-depth talk
15:04.29Defcon-he is a busy man indeed..
15:07.11Defcon-but, his personal project (codename: Kingdoms) is on hold for about 6 months now..
15:07.20Defcon-maybe he forgot about it :)
15:08.31brlcadprobably just busy
15:08.35brlcador bored
15:08.45Defcon-probably busy
15:08.55Defcon-he was really looking forward to the project
15:09.04Defcon-so it seemd
15:11.11``ErikO.o
15:12.23Defcon-◕_◕
17:17.24brlquestionsbrlcad: Just posted the issue on sourceforge tracker ... thanks everybody !
17:17.28brlquestionsbye !
17:17.33*** part/#brlcad brlquestions (n=user@126.Red-79-145-176.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
17:20.02brlcadnice
17:20.13brlcadbets john will investigate
17:43.11CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33644 10/jbrlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Updated to use jscience (instaed of jade)
18:52.03``Eriknice "I think I've just spent the last 14 hours in emacs and barely noticed the day is over. *gushgush*..." "I bet whatever you were doing in emacs for 14 hours I could have done in 5 minutes with Vim ;)" "how does it take you 5 minutes to start vim?"
18:55.24CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33645 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/numerics/BoundingBox.java: renamed some variables that were hiding fields
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19:11.42CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33646 10/rt^3/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Combined DataInputStream, DataOutputStream, and ByteBag into a new class: DataStream
19:24.35CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33647 10/rt^3/trunk/src/ (GeometryEngine/Makefile.am iBME/Makefile.am): Modified makefiles for DataStreamTest.
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20:38.29CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33648 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Add remainder of editing geometry commands from card, with the exception of eqn - need a way to select a face to work on that doesn't need the graphical menu.
20:39.12brlcadstarseeker: the press command
20:40.37starseekerhow do I supply the deep submenu to press as an argument?
20:42.29starseekeroh, I see
20:45.42starseekerstill doesn't work - that menu press pops up a dialog
20:47.22starseekerwow, for a command line command this is heavily tied to the graphics
21:06.58CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33649 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (gtools/g_qa.c libged/gqa.c): Tweak the usage message and the message complaining about the missing density data.
21:07.51*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedyJR (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
21:08.01*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@91.102.231.33)
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21:46.01CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33650 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/chgmodel.c: Fixed bug/typo in f_make (i.e. the problem was that things were set up to use av, but av was never used).
22:03.17yukonbob!ha -- did anybody read the story about comcast inadvertantly (?) broadcasting ~30s porn during the superbowl to some subscribers?
22:44.11starseekerwonders if they gained or lost business because of that...
23:07.15``Erikit was only in tuscon and was only dude junk, so... well, it was during football, which is awfully homoerotic to begin with, so who knows
23:09.38``Erik"superb owl porn" hah
23:10.46smurfettewhy are you looking up owl porn?
23:11.22starseekerdoesn't want to know...
23:12.04``Erikthere's a smacksnot story about the superbowl porn incident, and one of the comments was "what's wrong with superb owl porn?"
23:12.05``Erik:D
23:12.56smurfettemmmmhmmmm
23:13.02smurfetteworries about erik
23:13.07``ErikYARLY!
23:13.13smurfette;p
23:13.28``Erikall your owl are belong to my penor O.o and other failed internet memes.
23:13.45smurfettenerd
23:32.06yukonbobI for one welcome our superb owl porn overlords.
23:32.44starseekerhas never heard the presidential election described quite that way ;-)
23:33.26``Erikit's a hoot </horriblepun>
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090204

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090204

00:23.03``Erikhttp://www.boingboing.net/2008/02/29/ted-2008-crow-vendin.html skeers me
01:02.28mafmnight
01:08.11*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
01:45.45*** join/#brlcad Dr_Phreakenstein (n=phreak@216.151.24.198)
02:17.40``Erik<PROTECTED>
02:18.58Dr_Phreakensteini still need to see it
02:19.23Dr_Phreakensteini was not one of the 92.4 million that watched the game
02:19.47Dr_Phreakensteinanyone else having trouble starting archer?
02:20.01``Erikhttp://www.collegehumor.com/video:1899103
02:20.24brlcadDr_Phreakenstein: works here
02:20.46Dr_Phreakensteinthanks, both
02:21.04Dr_Phreakensteinprobably my bad installation
02:21.47brlcadthat was one of the best sb commercials
02:22.03Dr_Phreakensteinrecompiling, brb
02:25.31``Erik"chinlone: a new sport that's like soccer, only interesting." hehehe
02:38.17*** join/#brlcad schwinn434 (n=schwinn4@75.81.196.139)
02:47.30Dr_Phreakensteini don't suppose that originated in, say, china
02:55.20``Erikburma, apparently
02:57.12Dr_Phreakensteineh, close (sorta)
03:06.13Dr_Phreakensteinarcher gives:
03:06.16Dr_Phreakensteinunknown option "-menu"
03:06.39Dr_Phreakensteinthen tells me that the error is unexpected, aborting
03:07.34``Erikhm, did you build with --enable-all ?
03:10.04Dr_Phreakensteinmake clean;CFLAGS="-O2 -fomit-frame-pointer -msse3 -mmmx -m3dnow -pipe -march=opteron -w" CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}" ./configure --build=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu --enable-64bit-build --enable-optimized --disable-debug --prefix=/usr/local --with-gnu-ld ;make -iks --no-print-directory;make html-recursive; make install
03:10.09Dr_Phreakensteinno
03:10.26Dr_Phreakensteinare any of those options problematic?
03:10.30``Erikit may be that archer is using features added after your version of tk
03:11.21Dr_Phreakensteintk ver 8.5.6
03:11.42Dr_Phreakensteinshould i retry with internal tk?
03:11.44``Erikum, possibly, we have a tuned set of optimizations, --enable-optimized should be used instead of that CFLAGS stuff (there might be conflicts), and --build should theoretically be left to do its own
03:12.21Dr_Phreakensteindoes -optimized find my processor type (-march)
03:12.25``Erik--with-gnu-ld would be assume, and I believe --enable-optimized insinuates --disbale-debug
03:12.45``Erikit finds a good enough match based on what the skeery weird shit we do is :D
03:12.59Dr_Phreakensteinfair enough
03:13.10``Erikthe general rule is "when it don't work right, just do "./configure --enable-all --prefix=wherever"
03:13.17Dr_Phreakensteincan i use parallel make (-j 17)
03:13.20``Erikyeah
03:13.40``Erikand we have a 'fast' build rule that helps if you have more than 8 or so cores
03:13.45``Erikmake -j23 fast
03:14.24Dr_Phreakensteini only have dual-proc, dual core, and i am using a new kde, so i need some processor left ;)
03:14.31``Erikheh
03:14.44``Erikso the fast rule won't benefit you :D
03:14.48``Eriknice make -j3
03:14.49``Erik:D
03:14.51brlcad8.5.6 should be fine, but it's an easy enough recompile to make sure .. suspect it's just something minor
03:15.30Dr_Phreakensteinprobably, seems to be someting with bwish, if i followed strace correctly
03:15.37``Erikya didn't show up today, brlcad :) the tl was wondering where you were, and ya missed korean
03:15.46Dr_Phreakensteinit made a 10 meg trace, so you can only read that in so much depth
03:15.49brlcadi sent him e-mail
03:16.20brlcadrepairs yesterday went till 3am, didn't get going until late
03:16.22Dr_Phreakensteinemail tubes clogged, valve shut off
03:16.36``Erikeck (repairs?)
03:23.05brlcadfloor joists on the main floor -- a series of repairs made during sale were done very poorly
03:23.20brlcadnow it's outstanding, the guy that came to work on them was phenomenal
03:23.25``Erikah, cool
03:23.38``Erikneeds to try calling the guy to fix his front woodwork again :/
03:24.35``Erik(try calling him again, fix it again)
03:31.18*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
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03:52.19Dr_PhreakensteinErik: hope he is better than the Iraqi carpenters we found
03:52.43Dr_Phreakensteinthey used wood screws, and pounded them in with a hammer
03:54.27brlcadhah
03:55.38Dr_Phreakensteinif that was the only problem, i could forgive them, but they were slow, flakey, expensive, and the language barrier did not help
03:56.01Dr_Phreakensteinfinished work was sub-par at best
03:56.42Dr_Phreakensteinin their defense, wood is not the material of choice over there, so they as a whole had little experience, and less to work with
03:57.23Dr_Phreakensteinhere, every 9-year old boy knows how to hammer nails, and use a tape measure, at least a little bit
03:57.42Dr_Phreakenstein"helping" dad with some honey-dos and a tree fort
03:58.18Dr_Phreakensteinperhaps excepting urban apartment dwellers
04:29.35Dr_Phreakensteinoops.... make distclean foo-barred my brlcad sources. probably something i did
05:11.21Dr_Phreakensteinok, ran into error running make test
05:11.40Dr_Phreakensteinthis may be why i stoppped using internal tcl
05:13.39Dr_Phreakensteinquestion:
05:14.10Dr_Phreakensteinif i use internal tcl/tk, where can i put brlcad specific init.tcl?
05:15.57Dr_Phreakensteinor, more specifically, how do i point brlcad components to a different init.tcl file
05:25.25Dr_Phreakensteinfixed it
05:25.42Dr_Phreakensteingotta make install *before* make test
05:45.42brlcadah, yes .. make test has lots of limitations
05:46.17brlcadhas to be installed, maybe requires an in-place build iirc too
05:57.03Dr_Phreakensteinback to same -menu error after recommended options
05:57.41Dr_Phreakensteinsomething in tcl
05:58.22Dr_Phreakensteini am looking at my environment to see how it is (likely) clobbering brlcad's local tcl install
05:58.31Dr_Phreakensteinby tcl i mean tcl/tk
05:58.49Dr_Phreakenstein, itk, and friends
06:01.39brlcadwhere are you installing to?  the default path?
06:02.00brlcadah, /usr/local
06:04.14brlcadwas going to say that it's very unlikely that it'd be an environment issue, unless you're mixing into a dir with existing tcl data
06:04.45brlcadstill seems unlikely to me (more likely just a simple, maybe recent, bug in archer)
06:05.34brlcadeasy enough test if you really want to test it would be to install into /usr/brlcad
06:05.43brlcad(i.e., the configure default)
06:08.37Dr_Phreakensteinhow do i tell it to go to /usr/local/brlcad? have tried in past, with no success (trying to keep /usr uncluttered, no luck)
06:09.53Dr_Phreakensteinwait- that may have been the ebuild that i made (gentoo install file) that could not do it
06:10.01Dr_Phreakensteintrying now...
06:11.25Dr_Phreakensteinby chance, does brlcad look at an environment variable named TCL_LIBRARY
06:11.41Dr_Phreakensteini have that, set by something else, to 8.4
06:13.33Dr_Phreakensteinalso, TCLHOME, TCLLIBPATH, ITCL_LIBRARY, ITK_LIBRARY
06:15.49Dr_Phreakensteinbrlcad: are you on the east coast?
06:20.55brlcad--prefix=/usr/local/brlcad
06:21.07Dr_Phreakensteinmore directly, do you ever sleep? you are tremendously helpful, about 22 hrs/day
06:21.22brlcadit will obey the various tcl/tk _LIBRARY variables, but you shouldn't need to set them
06:21.50brlcadthanks, trying to get it up to 25 hours a day
06:21.51Dr_Phreakensteiniow, if they are set wrong, i should clear them, no?
06:22.01brlcadoh absolutely
06:22.11Dr_Phreakensteinlook into something called polyphasic sleep
06:22.12brlcadthey will override on pretty much every version of tcl
06:23.03Dr_Phreakensteinin a nutshell, trains your body to achieve REM in less time
06:23.03Dr_Phreakensteinsleep 20 minutes, wake for 3 hrs 40 minutes
06:23.15Dr_Phreakensteintotal of 3 hrs sleep per night
06:23.24brlcadi've actually done that for short stints
06:23.29brlcadweekends screw it up though
06:23.32Dr_Phreakensteinthey call it the uber-hacker schedule
06:23.33Dr_Phreakensteinyep
06:23.59brlcadas well as long coding stints
06:24.03Dr_Phreakensteinalso, interactions with humans in "meatspace" can make it less practical
06:24.38Dr_Phreakensteinas in, you are awake all the time, but can only talk to people, go to store, etc, certain times of the day
06:24.56Dr_Phreakensteini am considering it, how did it work for you?
06:25.06Dr_Phreakensteinbesides above mentioned
06:25.07brlcadyeah, that already sucks to varying degrees with how I sleep/work now
06:25.13Dr_Phreakenstein:)
06:25.16brlcadthere are upsides too though
06:25.39brlcadI moved into the city party because of that same issue actually, more things open much much later
06:25.46Dr_Phreakensteindid sig-other think you were insane?
06:25.48Dr_Phreakensteintrue
06:26.20Dr_Phreakensteini live in mid-smallish town (~40k ppl)
06:26.39Dr_Phreakensteinhalf of me wants to live in a loft above telco,
06:26.50Dr_Phreakensteinother half wants to be hermit in woods
06:27.09brlcadI find it easier to just sleep 3-5 hours a day, a lot easier to sustain than powernapping all the time
06:27.37brlcadparticularly with a work schedule where folks are calling and stopping by when you'd be needing to nap
06:28.09Dr_Phreakensteinloft would be downtown portland, OR, over fictitious telco( there are none dt witha loft ovre them, and I could get u-DSL at 40 megs
06:28.54brlcaddowntown portland sounds hella fun
06:29.03Dr_Phreakensteinhave you been?
06:29.06brlcadnope
06:29.17Dr_Phreakensteinnothing like it
06:29.20brlcadhad a buddy that lived there for a couple years
06:29.35Dr_Phreakensteinhow did they make him leave?
06:29.53Dr_Phreakensteintow cable in front, fire behind?
06:30.09brlcadheh
06:30.25brlcadjob changed iirc, found a great job out east
06:30.34Dr_Phreakensteinno job is that good
06:30.54Dr_Phreakensteinrather starve in stumptown, than succeed anywhere else
06:31.20Dr_Phreakensteinstumptown, pdx, city of roses
06:31.23brlcad:)
06:32.09Dr_Phreakensteindownside is crazy laws, and nearly communist ideas everywhere, creaping into legislation
06:32.27Dr_Phreakensteinthey want to install box in cars, charge by mile
06:33.05brlcadthey've talked about doing that out here too
06:33.12Dr_Phreakensteinwe actually have an (by comparison) active communist party, and green party
06:33.24Dr_Phreakensteinsmall problem;
06:33.27Dr_Phreakensteinhackers
06:34.11Dr_Phreakensteinalso, it shoots self in foot by discouraging better fuel mileage the way gas tax does
06:34.59Dr_Phreakensteinand... with rising energy rates/demand, they want to actually *destroy* our hydro power
06:35.09Dr_Phreakensteinliterally demolish dams
06:35.19Dr_Phreakensteinthey forget that will flood portland
06:35.31brlcadthat's a longer topic for another day :)
06:35.39Dr_Phreakensteinbut it will save 4000 fish
06:35.53brlcadis compelled to get a lil more code done before naptime
06:35.55Dr_Phreakensteinsorry, fresh fury still here
06:36.21brlcadcan tell
06:36.26Dr_Phreakensteinstill compiling, will keep posted of progress
06:36.29Dr_Phreakenstein:)
06:36.46brlcadgood luck on the compiling -- here as usual and will respond eventually if you have details
06:36.59Dr_Phreakensteinthanks
06:37.29Dr_Phreakensteinalso, you are welcome here anytime you would like to venture out west
06:37.45brlcadfor testing, you shouldn't have any env vars set that would override runtime behavior including all the *_LIBRARY* vars
06:37.57Dr_Phreakensteink
06:40.26brlcadbe sure to read the INSTALL file if you haven't yet (along with the README and doc/README*)
06:40.44brlcadwaves g'luck
06:41.02Dr_Phreakensteinthnx
07:22.28*** join/#brlcad Dr_Phreakenstein (n=phreak@216.151.24.198)
07:23.41Dr_Phreakensteinprofit!
07:25.35Dr_Phreakensteinawww... segfault
07:25.52Dr_Phreakensteinbut archer did work long enough to do that
07:25.54Dr_Phreakenstein:)
08:19.50*** join/#brlcad brlquestions (n=user@12.Red-83-44-240.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
08:28.38Dr_Phreakensteinthanks for help brlcad and Erik
08:29.53Dr_Phreakenstein(entering biphasic sleep mode, suspending operations)
09:13.01ruskiedecides to not bother with separating utah... to much pain...
09:46.24*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@77-58-236-115.dclient.hispeed.ch)
10:55.59*** join/#brlcad appletizer (i=user@82-32-123-8.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk)
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12:04.34d-loMorning all!  *Reads Backlog*
12:04.57d-loheard the superbowl commercials were sub-par this year :/
12:05.57d-loHeh, I'll walk to work before I have to pay a black box.  Sounds like a move by the Cabbie Party.
12:07.19d-loAs a former Nuclear Engineer, I can understand the frustration with fish clogging up pumps, pipes and strainers.  The answer, however, is not to remove the power plant... its to sharpen the blades on the pump impeller :)
12:08.29d-loAnyone:  Any Fedora Core users here?  Can they speak to the Pros and Cons of the OS?
12:13.23appletizerfedora?
12:13.28appletizerit's good :)
12:13.34appletizercentos is better though
12:13.39appletizerfedora is considered legacy
12:14.09archivistselinux bites a few
12:14.21d-loWell I was checking out the FC10 VMware appliance last night.... gotta admit, the KDE looks *a lot* like Vista... dunno how I feel about that :/
12:14.45d-loappletizer: Why, in your opinion, is centos > fedora?
12:14.56appletizerdepends on your goals
12:15.11appletizerfor server type goals, centos provides better stability
12:15.22d-loWorkstation stuff.
12:15.41appletizerfor workstation, then people tend to use fedora
12:16.04appletizerfedora has more bleeding edge packages
12:16.13archivistuses ubuntu due to EMC2
12:16.27d-loTrying to make a smart decision as to which OS i am going to use... don't feel like reinstalling/reconfiguring more than once.
12:17.13appletizerhehe honestly it doesn't really matter
12:17.54d-loIt kinda does, since each flavor has its own quirks, features and pitfalls.
12:18.05appletizeryeah that's what fuel unnecessary distro wars
12:18.52appletizerbut there's always a shift in distro popularity anyway
12:18.58appletizerit used to be redhat once upon a time
12:19.01appletizernow it's ubuntu
12:19.23d-loheh, not after popular :)  If anything, I am anti-trendy.
12:19.33d-loIts the 'Underdog complex' I suppose :)
12:19.52appletizerhehe underdog could be useful
12:20.02appletizerin that you're less exposed to malicious codings
12:20.12appletizerbut the downside of that is you get less userbase exposure
12:20.30d-loTrue enough.
12:21.12appletizeras long as you're using one of the more popular distros, you're fine :) anywhere between centos, fedora, rhel and ubuntu
12:21.21archivistI use ubuntu only because the EMC2 devs use that for the RTAT realtime,  makes it easy for me to do cnc
12:21.25appletizeroh and freebsd/openbsd of course :)
12:21.29archivistRTAI
12:22.52_sushi_!calc 2+3
12:23.06appletizerif you prefer underdogs, nimblex or wolvix could be useful
12:23.07appletizer:P
12:23.13appletizerthey're like among the least populars
12:23.14appletizerhaha
12:24.00d-loheh, and that gets back to my criteria of 'make a smart choice' :P
12:25.10d-lospins some Prodigy. Good stuff.
12:30.49*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
12:37.12Defcon-d-lo, do you remember the video of One Love
12:37.26Defcon-i'm still wondering how long it took to render it back then :)
12:37.33Defcon-*than
12:39.27d-loartist?
12:40.59Defcon-prodigy
12:41.00Defcon-:p
12:41.15d-lodon't think I ever saw the video :/
12:41.28Defcon-:)
12:41.31Defcon-it's on youtube
12:42.11d-lodidn't have cable/mtv/vh1/highspeed internet till he was out of highschool :/
12:42.27d-loI missed a bunch of videos.
12:43.00Defcon-:)
12:46.45d-loDefcon-: Heh, I feel bad for not recognizing the song by title.  Thats one of my al time fav movies... as horrible as it was. lol
12:52.11Defcon-haha, it's ok :)
12:53.08Defcon-everybody is allowed to forgot the
12:53.16Defcon-everybody is allowed to forgot the Prodigy once..
13:08.47brlquestionshello again, another question ...
13:09.08d-loturns off the lights and hides.
13:09.11d-lo;)
13:09.26brlquestionsis there some way to sketch bezier passing closer to control points in BRL CAD ?
13:11.32brlquestionsI converted the whole sketch on a single closed bezier that renders well on qcad after writing it by means of libdime
13:12.01brlquestionsthe problem is that bezier primitive in BRLCAD's sketch API rounds my corners too much ...
13:12.21brlquestions(sorry single closed NURBS or whatever ...)
13:25.47d-lobrlquestions: Gonna have to defer that to someone more knowledgeable than me :/ sorry!
13:25.58CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33651 10/rt^3/trunk/ (13 files in 5 dirs): Updated NetMsg and subclasses to use DataStream. Updated netMsgSerialTest.
13:27.22brlquestionsOK, thanks ... suppose there's some representation problem dealing with libdime specs, qcad NURBS splines and bezier primitive in BRLCAD
13:40.15brlcadbrlquestions: you can always add more control points, but I suspect the issue eis a translation problem
13:42.51brlcadeither a bezier getting imported as a sketch incorrectly via dxf-g (remember, that is "brand new" code to bring in the 2D entities) or an entity getting imported with params for the wrong type of curve (like making a bspline as a bezier curve and vice versa)
13:43.56*** join/#brlcad piksi (n=piksi@pi-xi.net)
13:45.30CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33652 10/jbrlcad/trunk/ (14 files in 4 dirs): Modifications to make jBrlcad compatible with other projects
13:48.44brlcadour sketch primitive really only supports bezier curves  (though the logic for also supporting nurbs curves is pretty much done too)
13:50.50brlcadso I guess the question is what type of curve did you originally make with libdime, what type of curve did you end up with in the sketch, and how'd you go from dime to sketch
14:03.01``Erik*readreadread* if I had to use linux, I'd probably go with ubuntu on the desktop and debian on the server
14:04.09d-lo``Erik: whyso?
14:06.42``Erikubuntu has decent package management and a fairly user interface focus, debian historically has been extremely solid compared to other leenewxes
14:07.03``Erikand both use apt/dpkg instead of the rpm trainwreck :D
14:07.42``Erikhugs fbsd (and obsd on occasion)
14:08.02``ErikI need to scrap together another machine to give solaris10 a whirl
14:08.07d-loWell, for me, 'RPM' has a place in my heart.... for neigh to 9 years, it stood for Reactor Plant Manual... the bane of my existance >8-(
14:08.41``Erikheh, 'redhat package manager'.. 'really putrid muck', whatever :D
14:09.22``Erikit's far easier to make an rpm than a dpkg, it's far easier to use a dpkg than an rpm :D
14:09.40d-lointeresting....
14:09.47``Erikim(ns)ho
14:10.18d-loi figured I would get a few nsho here, so its a good place to ask ;)
14:10.29d-lobrlcad: How are those repairs going?
14:13.03brlquestionsthank you very much brlcad ... I have to learn a lot of three dee modeling !!! thanks again for your help !
14:23.23``Erikheh, for some reason, my brain parsed /jbrlcad/trunk as "brlcad junk" O.o
14:23.40d-lojyou're just not jused to speaking jjava speak ;)
14:30.31*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
14:32.00``Erikheh, 'jjava', even brief periods of java development are so traumatic, you develop uncontrollable stuttering? ;)
14:32.48d-lojI don't jknow what joo are jtalking about....
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15:08.53brlcadwanders about but won't be going to lunch
15:08.54CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33653 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/adrt.h: macro to turn network opcodes into human readable names
15:09.14``Erikhow very odd, "svn commit file.h" failed, but "svn commit ./file.h" succeeded
15:09.25brlcadserverage funness
15:09.33brlcadprobably would have worked just a second time
15:09.50``Erikfailed many times in a row, tried removing and restoring the file, reapplying the changes, same failure
15:10.03``Erikperhaps smething about symlinks and nfs mounts confuzzled svn
15:10.03brlcadwhat was the error?
15:10.53``Erikbeh, lost the backlog, was something about not being able to find .svn/text-base/adrt.h.adrt.h.svn-base
15:10.58``Erik(which existed)
15:11.11*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@65.Red-81-34-125.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
15:11.59brlcadhuh, that is odd
15:12.08brlcadlikes the nfs theory
15:16.53``Eriksuddenly remembers why he had gtk installed on that machine. *sigh* *compile*
15:21.53brlcadfwiw, not going to lunch
15:31.56``Erikso I've heard :D
15:31.59``Erikbig breakfast?
15:32.18brlcadno, just busy
15:32.46``Erikaren't we all? :D which'll happen first, release or migration?
15:33.01brlcadno, definitely not all
15:34.41``Erikah, gtk is done compiling, autoreconf can now occur
15:41.19CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33654 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libutil/: empty dir
15:49.24CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33655 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/ (font.tcl openw.tcl): This fixes a bug that was breaking the font preferences panel (i.e. it's init routine was not getting called if a .mgedrc file was present).
15:51.36mafmhi
15:51.44d-lohai mafm !
17:16.02brlquestionsHello again ... what do you think about the possibility of using :
17:16.06brlquestionsvoid
17:16.06brlquestionsnurb_c_to_bezier(struct bu_list *clist, struct edge_g_cnurb *crv)
17:16.29brlquestionsin nurb_bezier.c to change representation before sketch extrusion ...
17:17.00brlquestionswhere can I find documentation about bu_list and edge_g_cnurb structures to use it in my own code ...
17:21.02starseekerbrlquestions:  best bet is probably the code itself
17:21.16starseekernot sure there are any useful programmer docs for those routines
17:22.02brlquestionsOK thanks starseeker ... anyway you now where are those structs defined ?
17:22.14CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33656 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Fix couple minor issues in mged test script.
17:23.11starseekercheck bu.h and nmg.h in brlcad/include directory
17:23.36brlquestionsok thanks again !
17:24.11brlquestionsthat's it include directory :)
18:23.15CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33657 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Add first tests of view commands
18:29.50*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-219.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
18:33.02CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33658 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/slave.c: fix up performance info (but leave disabled for now)
18:38.07CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33659 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Add ae, center and eye_pt tests
18:38.43CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33660 10/rt^3/trunk/ (7 files in 6 dirs): More cleanup on DataStream, NetMsg & Subs, and GeometryService
18:50.37CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33661 10/rt^3/trunk/src/tests/gsph0_Test.java: Adding groundwork for a simple cross language test.
19:31.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33662 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/librender/cut.c: use vmath.h
19:32.04brlcadmmm.. buzzing with activity, nice
19:33.11brlcadthat conversion using the old brep routine might work, but the data containers are wrong dimension (I think)
19:33.32brlcadI believe that takes a nurbs surface and turns it into a set of bezier patches
19:34.14brlcadwhich means he's on the right track, and might be able to make that routine or one similar work, but it'd be better to fix sketch nurbs curve support
19:34.50d-lobuzzes.
19:49.04CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33663 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/librender/normal.c: use vmath
19:49.07CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33664 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/librender/phong.c: irrelevant structural changes
19:51.27CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33665 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: Modified to use the classes in jbrlcad
19:52.30brlcadyou too?  my phone's been buzzing all day
19:52.40brlcadbuzzes when a commit is made
19:53.11brlcadoh wow.. librtserver is no longer stand-alone
19:53.11brlcadhrm
19:53.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33666 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Add a few more view commands
19:54.18starseekererm, wait a minute - does that mean brlcad now depends on jbrlcad to build??
19:58.25``Erikonly librtserver
19:58.38``Erikwhich is a JNI stub monstrosity
19:59.24starseekerright, but my point is would a garden variety build hault on librtserver now?
20:00.12``Erikuhm, I'd have to look at the change, but I BELIEVE that the jni asks for classes via strings, and he updated the classnames... so it should build just fine, you just have to define the symbols to be able to require it into a jvm
20:01.57``Erikyeah, he just changed the values of some string constants to say "org/brlcad/numerics" instead of "mil/army/muvs/sim/math"
20:01.59brlcadstarseeker: yeah, no -- but you would have to have jbrlcad to *use* librtserver
20:02.15starseekerok
20:02.17``Erik(previously,  you needed MUVE-3 to use librtserver)
20:03.23brlcadit's a todo item to update the src/java portions to be all org/brlcad if they're not already
20:03.39brlcaddont' recall if john did that already
20:04.29brlcadlong-term, it'll make sense to either merge in jbrlcad (if it's used a lot more, or at least the pieces required by librtserver), or move src/java over into jbrlcad
20:04.49CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33667 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/librender/component.c: minor formatting and elimination of superfluous temporary variable
20:05.12brlcadshakes fist at not having a graphical console on cad
20:05.15``Erikvotes move to jbrlcad, so'z we can have a clbrlcad, pybrlcad, etc :D
20:05.28brlcadheh
20:05.50brlcadhave I ever mentioned how much I hate language prefixes on project names? :)
20:05.54starseekerclbrlcad - for... mind bending designs :-)
20:06.05``Erikyeah, but they do it
20:06.23brlcadgeeks are horrible at internalizing a name, using implementation to name
20:06.30d-loits l33t and you know you like it.
20:07.03``Erik$ ls ~/src/macports/dports/python/py* | wc -l
20:07.03``Erik<PROTECTED>
20:07.08brlcadit's a long winded bikeshed discussion on usability, branding, marketing, and readability :)
20:08.28``Eriknames suck :D "wtf is a 'maven'? oh, you mean plwwwfm, I see" hehehe
20:08.29brlcadyeah, python folks are some of the worst at it, php and java too
20:08.52``Erik'boost'? is that an energy drink? :D
20:09.18brlcadmaven's at least a 'word' and can be pronounced fairly unambiguously
20:09.30``Erik</smartass> time to ponder code
20:10.02brlcadit only stops mattering if your project gets so popular that the prefix is no longer a prefix and it's a popularly recognized trademark on it's own
20:10.07brlcadlike "jboss"
20:10.59*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-219.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
20:11.03brlcadstops ranting and returns to hammering on the server
20:11.57d-loIt will probably go quicker if you use jHammer, iHammer or mcHammer.
20:12.07d-lo:D
20:12.13starseekermcHammer is overrated
20:12.49d-loEspecially since 'You Can't Touch' it
20:12.55starseekerprefers the flexibility o cl-Hammer, the only hammer that can hammer itself
20:15.06CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33668 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Add view version of sca to testing
20:19.38``Erikheh
20:20.06``ErikerHammer and mlHammer can be fun
20:20.39``Erik(but clHammer and scmHammer are the only ones that can deal with screws elegantly)
20:21.27brlcadstarseeker: press isn't so much tied to the graphics as the graphics is tied to press
20:22.24starseekerbrlcad: sorry, wasn't clear - trying to select an arb face to rotate strictly from the command line doesn't seem to be workable even with press
20:22.27brlcadpress is a very old command, so you could press buttons on the overlay menu when you didn't have an input device
20:22.54brlcadif it's doable from the gui, it should be doable on the command line
20:23.09brlcadit's just rather unexpected as to how it works
20:23.40starseekerafter all the pressing it pops up a GUI asking for a vertex to rotate around, and press doesn't seem to hit the OK in the dialog
20:23.44brlcadlike if you wanted to select a face, it's something like: press "Edit Face 1234"
20:24.08brlcadsounds like the wrong press string
20:24.53brlcadthat pop-up dialog would be something like CMD_MORE with typein where it prompts if there is an incomplete action
20:25.05starseekermutters under his breath about archane user interface interaction techniques...
20:25.29brlcadit's a lot more intuitive if you turn on faceplate mode
20:25.37starseekerbrlcad:  ah
20:25.46brlcadthe things you can press and the strings you can specify are usually directly spelled out there
20:26.32brlcad<PROTECTED>
20:27.35starseekerIs it worth all that just for eqn in the context of arb rotation?
20:28.27starseekerI suppose it's a more general issue for  testing graphical mged functionality in the end...
20:28.41brlcadit it worth you understanding the details of how press works, probably :)
20:28.51brlcadfor eqn, of course not
20:29.01starseekergrowl...
20:29.19starseekerOK, I'll figure it out once I'm done grabbing low hanging fruit for testing
20:29.46brlcadthat's a common (simple) command that is very useful in many contexts (particularly for users that want to script)
20:29.56starseekerwonders how to deal with testing the commands that flip up an editor...
20:30.15brlcad'accept' and 'reject' for example are really just aliases for "press accept" and "press reject"
20:30.53brlcadnotes the sore lack of "apply" that would be good to have so long as we have the modality
20:31.19brlcadstarseeker: set EDITOR to something scriptable
20:31.25starseekerwants reset to work in the editing context as well as press reset, but supposes it conflicts with something...
20:31.26brlcadlike 'cat'
20:31.29starseekerheh
20:31.38brlcad"reset" is also missing
20:32.00starseekerthought it was a libged bug at first when reset didn't work...
20:32.46brlcadthere are other EDITOR tricks you can use -- just depends on the command being tested
20:34.34starseekerwonders where the pink pen on his desk came from...
20:35.41starseekeralright, time for fizzy energy drink of some kind...
20:37.01brlcadmm. fizzy blue bawls
20:37.25brlcadhaven't had that much caffeine in a long while
20:55.05CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33669 10/rt^3/trunk/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Minor adjustments, bugfixes and tweaks.
20:56.17CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33670 10/rt^3/trunk/src/tests/ (. gsph0_Test.java java/ java/gsph0_Test.java): Small directory organization change. More work on the test for 'phase-0' GeometryServer.
20:56.33d-loWhelp... cyas all tomarrow.
21:06.20*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14D3BF.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:07.43brlcaddya d-lo
22:06.07CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33671 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/slave.c: fix component view
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090205

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090205

00:14.51*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@mail.fbcelkhart.org)
00:48.20mafmnight
03:38.39*** join/#brlcad schwinn434 (n=schwinn4@75.81.196.139)
04:32.14brlcadsighs in relief as he settles down into his chair
04:35.13yukonbobhello cadheads
06:58.02brlcadwaves and wanders
07:00.15*** join/#brlcad Dr_Phreakenstein (n=phreak@216.151.24.198)
07:18.17*** join/#brlcad Ralith_ (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
07:49.34brlcadhowdy Dr_Phreakenstein
08:18.27*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
09:06.30Dr_Phreakensteinhello brlcad!
10:04.34*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@65.Red-81-34-125.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
11:47.52*** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
11:47.52*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
12:02.40d-loyawns.
12:02.54d-loBitter cold and snowy morning to all!
12:03.22archiviststop whining about the snow :)
12:03.59d-loDon't mind the snow, its the nasty 30 mph wind that I don't like :)
12:04.04alex_joninice warm and sunny here
12:04.28d-loReally tested the CCA on the Jeep's Battery this morning, lol.
12:04.41d-loalex_joni: Email me some 'warm and sunny' please!
12:04.50archivistpress is over dramatising the snow here in the UK
12:05.50d-loarchivist: I take it that you too deal with, "ZOMG, 5cm of show... ITS THE END OF THE WORLD!" ?
12:06.21archivisthehe yea
12:07.02d-loLast week, we got a 'dusting'... seriously < 1mm snow... and they shutdown all public and private schools for 2 hours....
12:07.06archivistIve offered to go fetch a customer who was going to come today
12:07.12d-lolol
12:07.25d-lonow *THATS* customer service.
12:07.44Dr_Phreakensteinbusiness must be bad to need customers *that* much
12:07.45Dr_Phreakenstein;)
12:07.46archivisthe was the president of a car club, he is a wimp
12:08.06Dr_Phreakensteinnow if he was pres of 4wd club..
12:08.11d-lofancy shmancy cars?
12:08.14Dr_Phreakensteinno problem for him
12:08.23d-loDr_Phreakenstein: Exactly what I was thinking.
12:08.28archivisthehe tha would be funny, he does own a Freelander
12:09.28d-lowell, to be fair, most (if not all) mainstream SUV's aren't designed to handle any offroading any more :/
12:09.42d-loLandrover probably has a better rep than most, but still.
12:10.49Dr_Phreakensteintrue
12:11.01archivisttakes some snow to stop a Series 3 Landrover I had some fun years ago
12:11.42Dr_Phreakenstein(Dr_Phreakenstein cannot remember seeing a dirty SUV recently)
12:11.55archivistbent a wing going flat out into a snow drift, we pulled it straight and carried on
12:12.43Dr_PhreakensteinI remember passing people in the snow, while driving my valiant with bald tires, dead suspension
12:12.59Dr_Phreakensteinactual 4wd and awd suvs
12:13.04d-lofor instance, I come from a 'Jeep' family.  My most recent Jeep is a '08 Patriot... a bit more 'smooth ride' than 'rough and tough', but still a good car.... I took it on the small dirt/snow hills in my housing development last week and had nearlyt all my neighbors staring in awe.  My thought is, "Its a Jeep silly, what did you expect me to do with it?"
12:13.19Dr_Phreakensteinno kidding
12:13.20*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@25-144-85-95.dynamic.stcable.net)
12:13.30archivistyup go out and enjoy
12:13.52csanyipalhowdy
12:13.56Dr_Phreakensteinalthough, my caravan has also proven off-road worthy
12:13.57csanyipalHowdy!
12:14.00Dr_Phreakensteinhowdy!
12:14.14d-loOn a different note, when ever I see a full size truck or nice SUV 'pimped out' with windows, rims and a stereo.... I get very angry.
12:14.30Dr_Phreakensteinjust gotta watch out for that pesky ABS controller
12:14.33d-loHowdy csanyipal
12:14.33Dr_Phreakensteinyeah...
12:14.41Dr_Phreakensteinyou cannot put chains on those
12:14.48d-loCaravan... as in Dodge Caravan?
12:14.52Dr_Phreakensteinyup
12:15.02d-loWhat year?  I love those vans :)
12:15.07Dr_Phreakenstein2000
12:15.14Dr_Phreakenstein36.3 flex
12:15.18Dr_Phreakenstein3.3
12:15.30d-loNice.  We have an '03 and I love how easy the maintenance is on the 3.3 :)
12:15.41Dr_Phreakensteinthey are the best
12:15.56Dr_Phreakensteini will always buy them, too easy to fix
12:16.13Dr_Phreakensteinas long as you do not have to access rear cyl bank, as for plugs
12:16.39Dr_Phreakensteini put some 100k mile bosch plugs on there, so no problem for a while
12:17.16d-loheh, well, I draw the line maintenance like that.  Too time intensive for me.  Easier to drop it off and wait a day while someone else deals with that.
12:17.36Dr_Phreakensteininstalled class III hitch, HD shocks, prodigy electronic brake controller
12:17.49d-loAlternator, belts, plugs, breaks.. (basically the easy stuff) is what I tend to do myself.
12:17.53d-loWhat do you pull with it?
12:18.04Dr_Phreakensteinswitch to valvoline P/N vv935 oil
12:18.23Dr_Phreakensteingoing to WA to get some stuff from Grizzly
12:18.39d-loGrizzly = ?
12:18.40Dr_PhreakensteinMilling machine and sheet metal shear
12:18.55d-loah, Heavy Metal :)
12:19.07Dr_Phreakensteinhttp://www.grizzly.com/products/9-x-32-Gear-Head-Mill-Drill-with-Stand/G0484
12:19.44archivistexpects EMC2 on it in a while
12:20.04d-loBuy or lease?
12:20.17Dr_Phreakensteinhttp://www.grizzly.com/products/52-16-Gauge-Foot-Shear/T20797
12:20.19Dr_Phreakensteinbuy
12:20.30d-lonice, whats the Price Tag on a bachine like that?
12:20.35Dr_Phreakensteinarchivist :)
12:20.47Dr_Phreakensteinshear, 1200
12:21.07Dr_Phreakensteinmill 2000
12:21.09d-lonice 1/2 ton.  No problem! lol
12:21.32d-loUse for Business or hobby?
12:21.37Dr_Phreakensteinalso some small misc stuff, arbor press, tooling, etc
12:21.44Dr_Phreakenstein110 systems, llc
12:22.13d-loas in 110V electricity?
12:22.25Dr_Phreakensteinactually, my cousing has designed a cnc controller and software, so i will be suing that
12:22.39Dr_Phreakensteinactually, name was picked from when we did email
12:22.43Dr_Phreakensteinport 110
12:22.51d-lonice :)
12:22.58Dr_Phreakensteinalso 110 punchdown, as in low-volt wiring
12:23.10d-lo'cause I was going to point out that the Mill Grill is 220V  ;)
12:23.22Dr_Phreakenstein:)
12:23.38Dr_Phreakensteinyes, but that is in lieu of 440 3 ph
12:24.06Dr_Phreakensteinthe power company will accept 3 easy payments of $5000 to hook it up
12:24.17Dr_Phreakenstein220 is easier to find
12:24.29Dr_Phreakensteinas in make my wife wait to use the dryer
12:24.54d-lois not a big fan of 440/450/480V.... took 500Vdc though the heart when I was in the Navy.... I still get a bit shy when doing ANY electrical work, lol.
12:25.07Dr_Phreakensteinfair enough
12:25.09d-lo3 easy payments eh?  LOL.
12:25.37Dr_Phreakensteinoh, and that only brings power to the bottom of the pole
12:25.53d-loStart asking around to see if anyone carries a 220V '6-strip' and see what kind of looks you get :)
12:25.53Dr_Phreakensteini still have to dig trench, do panel, meter, etc in premise
12:26.07d-losave cost... don't install a meter :)
12:26.18Dr_Phreakensteini like your style
12:26.39Dr_Phreakensteinjust get some mueller alligator clips on the pole
12:27.07Dr_Phreakenstein(remember to use fiberglass ladder for that job)
12:27.40d-loWell, I *WAS* going to suggest building a ghetto Current Transformer by looping some insulated cable around the power lines :)  You can claim that they weren't using the Magnetic field anyways and that you are 'recycling' of sorts :)
12:27.57Dr_Phreakensteinhmmm....
12:28.02Dr_Phreakensteini have heard of this
12:28.38Dr_Phreakensteinalso, it would give me a more reasonable voltage, albeit a little light on the current
12:29.11d-loI have done it with 110V in the house... but it was more of a "Hrm, can I build a Current Sensor with a wire and a Voltmeter"
12:29.36Dr_Phreakensteinthe method that i like is to get in as the prototype machine shop in a startup company... free rent and electricity
12:29.47Dr_Phreakensteini know 2 shops that do that
12:30.15d-loExcellent angle.... never thought about that.
12:30.22d-loNothing beats free.
12:30.29Dr_Phreakenstein:)
12:30.53Dr_Phreakensteinfound APC UPSs at the local metal scrapper...
12:31.02Dr_Phreakenstein$12.50 apiece
12:31.03d-loSo, what kind of products/services does your company provide?
12:31.06Dr_Phreakenstein1500 VA
12:31.09d-lo..still functional?
12:31.15Dr_Phreakensteinwhat do you need?
12:31.22Dr_PhreakensteinI have a forklift for sale
12:31.25d-lojust curious.
12:31.25Dr_Phreakensteinyes
12:31.42Dr_Phreakensteingot it at HP machine shop auction
12:31.43d-lolol, now the wife would really hate me if I brought home a forklift. lol
12:31.59Dr_Phreakensteinwhy do you think I am selling mine
12:32.00Dr_Phreakenstein:)
12:32.04d-loShe grimaces everytime I tell her I am swinging by Home Depot....
12:32.10Dr_Phreakensteinlol
12:32.17Dr_Phreakensteinnice
12:32.28Dr_Phreakensteinwe have an industrial wholesaler here...
12:32.49d-loI could probably justify it by saying a forklist will facilitate moving the furnature around easier.... (and make it MUCH more fun)
12:32.53d-lohrm......
12:33.29Dr_PhreakensteinI did not know it would take so long, but my wife and kids waited an hour while I bought nuts and bolts one day... in bulk it took them 35 minutes to ring me up
12:33.42Dr_Phreakensteinshe may go for a pallet jack
12:33.50d-lobah, I am saving for a Deck... can't swing a forklift right now :(
12:34.09Dr_Phreakensteinthen, when that proves insufficient, you can justify the upgrade
12:34.23d-loPersonally, I always thought one of those selfpropelled cherry pickers would be a blast.
12:34.24Dr_Phreakensteinoh, but i can sell it so cheap!
12:34.27d-lolol
12:34.33Dr_Phreakensteinthey are
12:34.41Dr_Phreakensteincareful not to tip
12:34.50d-loshipping would be a bitch though :)  You're West Coast USA?
12:34.58Dr_Phreakensteinoregon, yes
12:35.19Dr_Phreakensteinit is on my dad's truck right now, I could swing by your location
12:35.21d-lowonders if there is a Guiness Record for driving cross-country in a forklift....
12:35.27Dr_Phreakenstein:)
12:35.46Dr_Phreakensteinum, with it's electric battery, not sure about that one
12:36.12d-loSolar panels and craftsman gennies baby... yeah!
12:36.20Dr_Phreakensteinhey, but you could make a wicked UPS with a 24 v, 1120 AH battery
12:37.03Dr_Phreakensteinthat sounds efficient as can be
12:37.34d-loUPS's are only good to hold the line voltage and current whilst the 'ballsy Diesel' back up gennie fires up on UV start :)
12:38.02d-loI *almost* have my wife sold on a multi-fuel back up gennie for the house.
12:38.03Dr_Phreakensteinyes, but this could hold line voltage for your neighborhood
12:38.05d-lo..almost.
12:38.21Dr_Phreakensteinhmmm
12:38.29d-loI figure, 1 or 2 more sustaned power outtages will sway her.
12:38.44Dr_Phreakensteintell her you will bury it underground to make it quieter
12:38.52Dr_Phreakensteinthat can be arranged...
12:38.52d-lolol
12:38.54Dr_Phreakenstein;)
12:39.15d-loOh, we are in a new development, so the retarded 'low wage' workers knock out power quite regularly.
12:39.29d-loI laugh heartly every time it happens.
12:39.38Dr_Phreakensteinnice
12:40.27d-loits kind of funny to look outside and see a 15 ton CAT front loader backed over a transformer enclosure with 4 workers standing 50 ft away, just staring.
12:40.56Dr_Phreakenstein...oops...
12:41.26d-loOnce i was assured that no one got hurt, I just laughed and laughed.
12:41.49Dr_Phreakensteinwonders if that is as funny as seeing D-10 cat on it's side next to a HETT, and an 88m doing pushups in the ditch
12:42.11d-lolol
12:42.58Dr_Phreakensteini sure laughed (once I was out of earshot of her leadership, yes, her)
12:43.14d-lonow thats funny.
12:43.52Dr_Phreakensteini even returned to take a picture, but i could not get there until after PT, and it was up by then
12:44.06d-loI work with a guy who was ex-Army, I forget his MOS, but his primary role was HETT and HEMMIT(spelling?) mechanic.... oh man, the stories he has...
12:44.16Dr_Phreakenstein2 88 wreckers will lift anything in a hurry
12:44.25Dr_PhreakensteinHEMMT
12:44.30Dr_Phreakensteini bet
12:44.36d-lorighto, thanks.
12:44.46Dr_Phreakensteindrove one once
12:45.03d-loI got used to 10 years of Navy acronyms and then switched up and joined the Army as a civ.... whole new world lol.
12:45.34d-lodrove?  I was impressed enough with riding in one.
12:45.56Dr_PhreakensteinI was new to army, and they needed people to drive vehicles onto a train car. so they gave me a license for everything in the motorpool, minus forklift
12:46.17Dr_Phreakensteinironically, a forklift was all that i had ever been trained on...
12:46.40Dr_Phreakensteinso, there was this sea of armored vehicles...
12:47.06Dr_PhreakensteinI soon tired of APCs and HMMWVs, so i tried other stuff
12:47.15d-lomy current favorite military vehicle:  
12:47.21d-lohttp://patdollard.com/wp-content/uploads/land_mrap_img_maxxpro_cat-1_final_lg.jpg
12:47.48Dr_PhreakensteinBradley... 88, HEMMT, LMTV, LMTV with tractor-trailer, and some other stuff
12:47.54Dr_Phreakensteinnice
12:48.25Dr_Phreakensteinthose are nice to ride in, even nicer to drive
12:48.36Dr_PhreakensteinI am a big International fan
12:48.58d-loOf all the Army vehicles, the IMG MAXXPRO is the only one I have a lot of experience with... and me likes :)  If I could get one for home, I would.
12:49.08Dr_Phreakensteinactually, my Yale forklift is sitting on a 1970 International Loadstar 1800
12:49.24d-lo"Oh, so you want to tailgate me? Let me just perform a brake check."
12:49.35Dr_Phreakensteinthe good ole 113 is kinda fun, if you have one in good shape
12:49.56d-lobah, I need to work now :/
12:50.01Dr_Phreakensteinyeah, maxpro stops alright
12:50.09Dr_Phreakensteinone more thing
12:50.42Dr_Phreakensteinlook into installing sach's "nivomat" suspension in your van
12:51.08Dr_Phreakensteinyou can get it online for about 250 per shock (rear only)
12:51.38Dr_Phreakensteinwish i new about it before getting those monroe shocks i got... not bad, but self-levelling is the best
12:51.50d-lonivomat eh?
12:51.52Dr_Phreakensteinavailable with factory tow package, too
12:51.56Dr_Phreakensteinyup
12:51.56d-loI'll look it up.
12:52.11*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
12:52.26Dr_Phreakensteinsend me phreak@110mail.com and i will send you p/n and links
12:53.03Dr_Phreakensteini gotta sleep.
12:53.44Dr_Phreakensteingotta wake up in 2 hrs for class, then install wiring for trailer and get up at 4 tomorrow for 6 hr drive to bellingham WA
12:54.41d-lok, you sleep.  I'll ask the wife about the forklift :)
12:54.43d-lolol
12:55.41Dr_Phreakenstein:)
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15:27.33*** join/#brlcad Jose` (i=43cd67c9@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-238b78f97b453d81)
15:27.40Jose`WELL GOOD MORNING EVERYBODY!
15:27.53Jose`I HAVE COME TO SPREAD CHEERS!
15:28.00Jose`AND PRESENTS!
15:28.05Jose`AND CANDIES!
15:28.26Jose`BUTT FIRST YOU MUST PAY THE FIDDLER!!
15:28.34Jose`THEN WE CAN ALL HAVE BUTT SECKS
15:28.47Jose`YAY!
15:28.52Jose`<3
15:29.50Jose`OOPS WRONG CHANNEL SORRY ABOUT THAT :(
15:29.51*** mode/#brlcad [+b *!*@gateway/web] by brlcad
15:29.54*** mode/#brlcad [+b *!*@gateway/web*] by brlcad
15:30.07*** mode/#brlcad [-b *!*@gateway/web] by brlcad
15:35.49``Erikheh
15:36.33``Erikshould get himself one of these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDoy9S82ETA
15:36.43d-loIf it was the wrong channel, why hasn't he left yet?
15:37.19d-lo``Erik: Wont that *ensure* your ability to get to work on snow days?
15:37.27``Erikyes
15:37.49``Erikand any damn other place I wanted to go
15:37.50``Erik:D
15:37.57d-lolol
15:38.09``Erik"what? curb? I didn't feel a curb, occifer"
15:39.07d-loI wonder what people would be thinking when they are coming out of Best Buy and see that buggy parked on top of their car.... with you walking away from it while enabling the car alarm... Chirp Chirp!
15:39.32``Erikheh, that'd be awesome getting one of those up on 4 cars, one wheel on each roof
15:39.37``Erikespecially if they were all suv's :D
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15:40.11d-lolol
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15:41.48brlcadhowdy njan
15:43.43*** mode/#brlcad [-b *!*@gateway/web*] by brlcad
15:50.24*** join/#brlcad Gary (i=gary@freenode/staff/colchester-lug.gary)
15:53.05brlcadappreciated but you guys are late ;)
15:53.56Garyya, sorry
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16:47.04CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33672 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh:
16:47.06CIA-32BRL-CAD: Add in remainder of view manipulation commands on the Quick Reference Card, put
16:47.08CIA-32BRL-CAD: cleanup rm command at end for temp files, clear results files when running
16:47.10CIA-32BRL-CAD: again. The overlay command segfaults when the attempt is made to run it from
16:47.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: the script (works interactively) so commented out for now.
16:53.34brlcadcool
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17:47.21CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r33673 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (Makefile.am pcMathGrammar.h pcMathLF.h): Adding Lazy Function header file for the Math VM
17:57.53``Eriko'sake wa sugoii ii desu.
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18:44.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r33674 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcMathGrammar.h pcMathLF.h): Definition of lazy functions and beginning to elaborate ExpressionGrammar
18:53.34CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33675 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Add remainder of displaying geometry commands from Quick Reference Card (with the exception of the geometry browser, which will require some thought).
18:55.26starseekerif nothing else, this sucker is great practice with vim
19:06.22*** part/#brlcad njan (i=james@freenode/staff/njan)
19:21.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1207 10/wiki/NewSessionREQOK: /* Byte Format */
19:31.58CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33676 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/setup.c:
19:32.00CIA-32BRL-CAD: For now, the arb and bev commands are being called via cmd_ged_plain_wrapper.
19:32.02CIA-32BRL-CAD: cmd_ged_edit_wrapper was being used previously and was trying to draw the newly
19:32.04CIA-32BRL-CAD: created object, assuming that it was the last parameter. Will have to come up
19:32.06CIA-32BRL-CAD: with something else later (i.e. no time at the moment).
19:38.50CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33677 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Add tests for kill commands on Quick Reference Card
19:42.46d-loheh, looks like that media wiki CIA addon works :)
20:20.31CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33678 10/rt^3/trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Continuing work for gsph0. gsph0 now communicating with gsph0_test during Hostname exchange and new session request.
20:23.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33679 10/rt^3/trunk/src/tests/java/ (8 files): Continuing work for gsph0_Test. gsph0_Test now communicating with gsph0 during Hostname exchange and new session request.
20:24.58CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33680 10/rt^3/trunk/src/iBME/testing.g: Simple example .g for file transfer testing.
20:26.52``Erikbrlcad, *ping*
20:33.01CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33681 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/librender/cut.c: darwin doesn't seem to like pointers to stack addresses in library functions being dereferenced, so malloc() (and free) the cutter geometry (fixes bus fault).
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22:26.40brlcad``Erik: points to stack data should be just fine on darwin -- perhaps stack corruption
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23:18.33``Erikhrm, it's two function calls that don't do jack iwth the stack, when I put it through the debugger, it looks like a reasonable address (and consistant)
23:18.59``Erikand it's a bus fault, not a seg fault, which is odd in itself
23:19.30brlcadmm
23:19.33brlcadi still don't buy it
23:19.46``Erik*shrug* that change made the problem go away, mebbe I'll explore it a bit later
23:19.54brlcadthose are simple floats in an array on the stack
23:20.23``Erikyeah, with a few levels of indirection in the mix... it sees into the first pointer ok, btu the second is inaccessable
23:20.32starseekerbrlcad: should I incorporate the existing mged regression testing into what I'm doing or do you want to keep it as its own routine?
23:20.39brlcadthere should be no problem passing around pointers to that -- maybe somewhere it gets cast to the wrong pointer type, like a bad double/triple pointer cast
23:20.43``ErikI d'no, if I decide to think about it, mebbe I'll revert it and step through it
23:20.55brlcadthat'd be something that might turn out fine on some environments
23:21.07brlcaddepending on the alignment
23:21.17``Erikgiven that it uses the same type everywhere along the path, and it's nicely aligned, I 'dno about that
23:21.36brlcadstarseeker: what are you doing?
23:21.38``Erikunless there're some funky compile option differences between the various libs
23:22.13``Erikif I think about it between now and tomorrow, I'll try stepping it to see what's up *shrug*
23:22.21brlcad*shrug*
23:22.28brlcadlooked like it was during prep, so not a big issue
23:22.34``Erikyup
23:22.35starseekerbrlcad:  The mged/libged regression testing - should I just suck the stuff you did to test mged command functionality into one big mged test, or did you want to retain your routine as a separate entity?
23:22.37brlcadbut just don't think it's a darwin thing
23:22.49``Erikthat's the only place it exhibited itself
23:23.03brlcadstarseeker: AH, the "other" existing mged regression testing
23:23.07starseekerright
23:23.31brlcadnah, leave it alone unless you have a compelling reason to join them
23:23.43starseekerok.
23:23.54starseekerwas just wanting to steal the mged.sh name ;-)
23:23.56brlcadthe tests don't need to be elegant, they're overhead code -- the less maintenance the better
23:24.34brlcadwhatever suits your fancy then :)
23:24.42starseekerok
23:24.59starseekeris thinking this will be ready to hook in in a few days...
23:25.13starseekerassuming my vim editing speed increases somewhat
23:26.00brlcadI'd be inclined to make all those sections you have into individual files, source them in and run a function or exec them directly
23:26.35brlcadjust think how fast you'd be by now if you had a powerful scriptable environment at your fingertips with the same investment of effort ;)
23:26.58starseekerheh
23:27.16brlcadare the tests looking grim or green?
23:27.37starseekernot too bad so far - I haven't actually run a 7.12.6 benchmark in a bit
23:27.43starseekerme relinks and re-runs...
23:28.07brlcadgave bob time to tweak, releasing either tomorrow or saturday
23:28.31brlcadgoing to press really hard to keep to a release by the 7th
23:28.32starseekerhe's squashed a few bugs already - the make spewing errors was a biggie
23:31.00starseekernods
23:36.51starseekerauugh, why do I get a bus error now
23:42.28yukonbobbrlcad: plate full of bugs?
23:42.35yukonbobs/bugs/tickets/
23:44.52brlcadyukonbob: yeah, there are too many tickets, none getting closed out
23:50.19*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
23:56.32starseekerhmm, well autoview, saveview, loadview, ps, and plot are now suddenly causing bus errors
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090206

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090206

00:03.59starseekerhrm - looks like a couple of the view input options are busted
00:04.29starseekerberates himself for using make instead of in to create test primitives for other commands - default changes is messing up comparisons
00:04.41starseekerguess I get to go back and fix it
00:05.29starseekerdon't get why all of a sudden the saveview stuff is dead - it was working when I initially tested it and that was against head...
00:20.52mafmnight
00:35.12starseekerkill is being somewhat less verbose as well
00:37.56starseekererm.  g_diff bombs
00:45.30starseekerbrlcad:  Is g_diff converting things to the same format as g2asc and doing the diff on that?
03:09.36``Erikbombs on what?
03:09.55``ErikI was just dicking around in g_diff.. it does not do a g2asc, but it has similar logic for human readable crap
03:11.44``Erikother than that, the last 'real' modification was a little over a year ago by daytona
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03:59.07starseeker``Erik: on the messy .g files generated by running mged_test.sh first on 7.12.6 and then on head
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04:28.48``Erikg_diff's natural behavior is to compare straight up in mem rep
04:29.18``Erikit acutally compares the binary csg tree for combs iirc
04:29.48``Erikand then produces text acceptable as mged input in 'mged/machine' mode
04:30.22``Erikmy hack was to wait until after those were done, then do substring searching on the output strings... horribly hackish, boggled I haven't been yelled at for it :D
04:32.29``Erikhates when people with no appreciable ability in math make absolute statements about the output of certain mathematical statements
04:35.02``Erik23k base health, more like 31k buffed, do the numbers, the 'big bad guy' can do up to 13k damage a whack on me, but this fucker claims I'd be one-shotted
04:35.22``Eriktries to figure out how 13k > 31k, thinks he could stay standing 2 hits without a damn heal
04:35.24``Erik*grouse*
04:37.33``Erik</nerd>
04:39.07``Erikwouldn't mind seeing g2asc's core logic moved into librt, and g_diff's output actually using those lib-ized functions
04:39.40``ErikIt hink g2asc and asc2g need their per-primitive logic worked into the primitive files
04:39.57``Erikthe v5 i/o is essentially complicated swizzling
04:40.08``Erikwhy not have the ascii rep in there as well?
04:52.41brlcadstarseeker: no, it doesn't convert to asc and compare, it compares object to object in order, attribute by attribute
04:54.24brlcadand yeah, what ``Erik said
05:02.41``Erikbrlcad: is migration low priority now?
05:11.06brlcadnope, just stalled by the other migration
05:11.25brlcadcar filled with 6 guys or so in a pimped out car just drove by the house, stopped, backed up, were checking out the car
05:11.32brlcadgeniunely just interested in the car, but odd they new it was mine
05:11.41brlcadyes, I will be installing external video cameras at some point soon :)
05:13.34``Erikon the upside, a very noticable car is far less likely to be chop shop meat
05:16.31``Erik<-- grumbles some at the suv that cut him of on post and he ended up passing about 12 miles later, should paint his car fucktard orange to not blend in or something :D *duck*
05:17.56``Erikoh, btw, saw another hidden cop, dark green or dark blue dodge dakota pickup (salt and bright flashing lights made it hard to distinguish)
05:19.02``Eriktagged someone on 22 just east of the jeep dealership
05:42.48brlcadwould rather be a fucktard if that means smiling every goddamn time I look at my car, get in the car, drive the car ..
05:43.14brlcadblending is dulling
05:43.16Dr_Phreakenstein:)
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06:35.43starseekerbrlcad:  is there a good way to direct MGED output to a file at the tcl level?
06:37.01brlcaderhm
06:37.14starseekeris studying output_hook...
06:37.22brlcadit depends, but yeah, you can generally redirect any output for any command just like the shell
06:37.35brlcadmany commands have built-in support
06:38.06starseekerusing ">" and ">>"?
06:38.09brlcadit's a little tricky with our commands for some of them since many of them "do their own thing" on the C side
06:38.15brlcadnopes
06:41.00brlcadif it's a command that just returns a value that is printed, you can capture that to a file very simply
06:41.25brlcadset fd [open whatever w] ; puts $fd [your command here] ; close $fd
06:42.10brlcadif your command calls puts directly or manually writes to stdout/stderr, then you'll have to reopen stdout/stderr
06:44.08starseekerhmm
06:44.10brlcadthis is pretty interesting by itself and is related, http://inferno.slug.org/cgi-bin/wiki?Redirecting_Stdout
06:44.32brlcaddoes the stdout redirection
06:45.24starseekerhmm - what's the license on that?
06:47.34brlcaddon't know, doesn't say (not that I'd be too worried for such a small public snippet that isn't being promoted/used outside of regression testing)
06:47.38yukonbobhi nerds
06:47.38starseekergrr - wildcards don't seem to work inside []
06:47.45brlcadnope
06:47.55brlcadwildcards are glob compat expansion
06:47.57yukonbobstarseeker: glob
06:47.59brlcadthere is a glob command
06:48.36starseekerglob expands the file system
06:48.47starseekerwants it to list primitives
06:48.51brlcadstarseeker: another option is the exec command which does offer operator redirection
06:48.57starseekerhmmm
06:49.26brlcadset ret [exec script.tcl >& output]
06:49.52brlcader, set ret [exec tclsh script.tcl >& output]
06:50.14brlcadwill kick off a subprocess
06:50.20starseekerthat might work
06:50.36brlcadret will of course have the numeric exit status
06:50.39yukonbobone could also build a completely new [brlputs] either at script or C level...
06:50.51starseekeras you've probably guessed, I'm exploring doing this regression thing from the tcl side
06:51.21brlcadyou have a reasonable setup as it is
06:52.08starseekerit has at least one major problem with extensive use of the make command
06:52.11starseekerthat was a bad mistake
06:52.24starseekeralso, a lot of operations like tra should be tried on all the primitives
06:52.39starseekerI've already convinced tcl to do some rather intelligent things in that department
06:53.11brlcadmake just exemplifies that problem I was telling you about, sensitivity of the tests to changes
06:53.15starseekerof course, I can kick off the individual scripts from sh, but I was thinking if tcl was used all the way through we could also regression test on Windows
06:53.21yukonbobstarseeker: are you using tcltest(n)?
06:53.23brlcadthe tests are going to be *highly* sensitive unless you make the comparisons highly relaxed
06:53.43starseekeryukonbob:  never heard of it
06:53.46starseekergoogles
06:53.53yukonbobman n tcltest :)
06:54.20yukonbob(assuming your tcl man pages are section n)
06:54.26brlcadyukonbob: a great suggestion, maybe "round two"
06:54.38starseekerbrlcad:  Oh, agreed - they'll be fragile.  But that particular one (make) incorporated a known problem into libged sensitive commands at a time when we have to be especially concerned about their behavior - just a brain dead move on my part
06:54.56brlcadstarseeker: nod
06:55.07brlcadso swap them all out for in commands, and you're done :)
06:55.24brlcadexcept for the make command, don't swap it out for in ;)
06:55.59starseekersure - but having to do that manually is a pain in the neck, and highlighted how stupid I was to have so many manual instances of various commands present in full verbosity anyway
06:55.59brlcadyukonbob: have you used tcltest on a project before, example testsuite that could be run somewhere?
06:56.18starseekerproc in_arb8 {cmdname {id_number ""} {extension ".s"}} {in [format %s_arb8%s%s $cmdname $id_number $extension] arb8 10 -9 -8 10 -1 -8 10 -1 0 10 -9 0 3 -9 -8 3 -1 -8 3 -1 0 3 -9 0 }
06:56.23starseekerfor example
06:57.23starseekeras is, even without integrating anything, I think we look like we're in fairly good shape
06:57.58starseekerI don't have full coverage yet, but have a lot of the critical ones
06:58.44brlcadgood shape on the testing side or on the results side
06:58.50starseekerresults
06:59.06brlcadah, great .. so we can .. SHIP IT!
06:59.13starseekermost are due to the make differences (or other arb changes)
06:59.21brlcadthat would make for a great dyslexic typo
07:00.22brlcadI'm actually most concerned about outright crashes happening
07:01.21starseekerWell, aside from autoview and saveview, loadview, ps, and plot antics I don't think I hit anything that flat out crashed
07:01.54starseekeroh, and overlay
07:02.07starseekerBob knows autoview is messed up
07:02.16starseekerthe others seem to be unhappy about being scripted
07:05.07starseekeranyway, sleep - I'll forge on tomorrow
07:05.26starseekergetting a better feel for how to do stuff in tcl, so that's probably good
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07:06.40starseekerbrlcad, yukonbob:  thanks for the help
07:06.47starseekerappreciate it :-)
07:07.01brlcadwhat's autoview do wrong?
07:07.11starseekerit's not doing much of anything
07:07.15brlcadhrm, quite a few things use it
07:07.49brlcadokay, well cya on the other side
07:08.02starseekerlater :-)
07:15.59yukonbobbrlcad: I've done -small- work with it... see Tcl itself for large test suite, or sqlite
07:16.25yukonbobsee also dejagnu, which is tcl-based
07:16.37yukonbob^---- gcc testsuite
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12:16.42CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33682 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/deprecation.txt: apparently I made it obsolete in 7.12.4 whilest consolidating and eliminating globals
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13:23.09CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33683 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: Add note in TODO about tools to make life easier with springs/shocks/coils and gears
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15:00.43``Eriktaps his foot and waits for release so he can begin committing horrible atrocities
15:01.43``Erik(parse however you like)
15:02.15``ErikI'm thinking above shoving libtie into librt proper O.o
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15:18.53CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33684 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Replace some of the makes with ins, comment out a few problematic tests.
15:22.18brlcad``Erik: you could make the release yourself, follow the HACKING guide steps
15:22.48brlcadbasically just have to write some release notes, update the release number in a couple places, sync to stable, and pass make distcheck
15:22.52``Erikuhhhhh *thinks of a way to dodge* waiting on starseekers mged test suite results? :D
15:23.24``Erikhas released auto* crap before, knows the routine, just doesn't wanna do it :D dicking with code instead
15:23.54archivistwatches him wriggle
15:24.08``Erik(that and the machines I like have failed install/deinstall tests since the tkhtml stuff, due to tea ... issues)
15:24.10``Erik:D
15:24.26``Erikyeah, well, I think the wiggling just bought me the duty
15:25.55brlcadstarseeker seems willing
15:38.04``Erikyeah, he just left my office, he's gonna head it up, *puts on pigtails and freckles* an' ah halped!
15:51.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33685 10/brlcad/trunk/ (ChangeLog include/conf/PATCH): Bump PATCH number, update Changelog
15:52.01starseekerbrlcad:  Given the updates coming to the TODO file, do you want me to do anything with it now?
15:52.08brlcadnope
15:52.11starseekerk
15:58.15CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33686 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: (log message trimmed)
15:58.15CIA-40BRL-CAD: spell out names for consistency unless they won't fit, items are supposed to be
15:58.15CIA-40BRL-CAD: in stack-based chronological ordering with newest on top. so move up eriks
15:58.15CIA-40BRL-CAD: (added a rough cut at an "evolutionary" capability to g_diff. This attempts to
15:58.15CIA-40BRL-CAD: guess if a change to a region was a natural evolution or if the region was
15:58.18CIA-40BRL-CAD: "reworked" in some significant fashion. Requested by lbutler.) and expand (Base
15:58.20CIA-40BRL-CAD: to neck ratio in hyp should not be scaled with other parameters, result is
16:01.31``Eriktries to remember AM_CONDITIONAL's behavior
16:03.49CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33687 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: summary in preparation for release 7.14.2; emphasize the importer and exporter changes noting bot_dump, lens, dem-g, and the dxf-g 2d entity fix.
16:06.23brlcadAM_CONDITIONAL(VAR, [condition]) ==> if condition evaluates to true, define/include VAR sections
16:06.56``Erikyeah, but the little details when you're in the guts is where I'm trynig to think :D
16:07.17brlcadyou mean the condition?
16:07.19``ErikI think I don't even need to do that, though, I think it was just a silly oversight... testing
16:07.36brlcadrarely need conditionals
16:07.45``Erik"if VAR", was thinking I might need to undefined VAR in the .ac
16:08.25``Erik(--enable-all on a machien without apache fop attempts to execute ":", trying to make it smarter)
16:08.26brlcadusually better to AC_SUBST so it can be toggled in the source
16:08.33brlcadah yes
16:09.21brlcadstarseeker: I'm done
16:09.37starseekerbrlcad:  great, thanks!
16:09.44starseekergot builds going on mac and linux now
16:10.50CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33688 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: do not build PDF docs if apache FOP is not found.
16:10.52``Eriktaps cia
16:10.55``Erikstarseeker: I'm done
16:10.56``Erik:D
16:11.14starseeker``Erik:  awesome, thanks!
16:11.28starseekernotes change to configure.ac and restarts builds...
16:12.35``Eriksince I've probably broken things in horrible ways, I should flee to lunch... :D
16:12.46starseekerheh
16:13.25starseekermight as well - make distcheck will take a little while
16:13.41``Erikyeah, it might even take until, oh, say, 1pm?
16:13.50starseekerheh
16:14.44brlcadstarseeker, you should be good to go to upload to sf.net as well -- see a previous release for what goes into notes, changelog, and the various file settings
16:18.12brlcador ask, whatever
16:19.19starseekercool, I'll take care of it
16:19.25starseekerhas done it once before, IIRC
16:20.47CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33689 10/rt^3/trunk/src/tests/java/ (3 files): Completion of gsph0_test. Now successfully handshakes, requests geometry, receives geometry and logs off the gsph0.
16:20.52starseekerbrlcad:  You get to do the website update (heh - we missed 7.14.0 on the website.  oops)
16:23.24CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33690 10/rt^3/trunk/ (8 files in 7 dirs): Completion of gsph0. Now sucessfully handshakes, handles requests, sends geometry and disconnects from gsph0_test. Boost::asio is providing a segfault whenever a client disconnects, so that is the next issue to tackle.
16:27.22starseekerbrlcad:  bty, home come make extrude uses an empty sketch instead of some default?
16:27.28starseekerer s/home/how
16:28.35brlcadit's a lose lose situation
16:28.56starseekerhow so?
16:29.20brlcadit used to make a default and people complained that (of course) it was never what they were modeling if they're actually creating something new
16:29.32starseekerah
16:29.37brlcadso to use sketch, you always had to pop open the sketch editor
16:29.46brlcadand delete everything
16:29.51brlcadevery time
16:30.00brlcadnow it's an empty pallete
16:30.21brlcadmakes it harder for quick testing, but for folks actually modeling, it's a step less
16:30.40starseekermaybe we should show a bounding box wireframe for the empty case or something, so it doesn't look like a total falure
16:30.54starseekerOK, I can see that
16:31.31starseekerwe should be able to draw the bb without the sketch
16:31.55brlcadwhat is the bb of an empty sketch? :)
16:32.18starseekerno, the empty extrude
16:32.28starseekeror rather, an extrude with an empty sketcy
16:32.32starseekersketch
16:32.33starseekergrr
16:32.50sketcy:D
16:32.54starseekerthe extrude's bounding box is not impacted by the contents o the sketch, iirc
16:33.03sketcyd-lo
16:33.04starseeker:-P
16:33.10starseekernice
16:33.24d-lois an irssitard
16:34.31starseekeran empty sketch will obviously have nothing to display, but an empty extrude still defines a volume in which the extrusion will take place
16:34.49brlcadit's an empty volume
16:35.08brlcadit defines a height
16:35.11brlcadso the "bb" would be a line
16:35.14brlcadsegment
16:35.21brlcadnot very intuitive/useful
16:35.26starseekerI thought there were other vectors
16:35.29starseekerlooks again
16:35.33brlcadthose are scaling parameters
16:35.42brlcadnot absolute values
16:35.45starseekerah, phooy
16:35.50brlcadmultiply by the scaling and  you got zero
16:36.07starseekerthought the sketch was scaled to fit within absolute 3D boundaries
16:36.09starseekermy bad
16:36.17brlcadhm
16:36.20brlcadwell double-check it
16:36.33starseekerif it isn't it should be ;-)
16:37.44brlcadthe confusion there might be the inconsistency, showing the wireframe bounding box that renders nothing where normally that would be .. a box
16:37.51brlcadand conceivably could be a sketch that is just a box
16:38.13starseekertrue - maybe use dotted lines or some other non-traditional outline?
16:38.27starseekercould use it for all bounding volumes, come to think of it
16:39.04brlcadit's presently all neatly abstracted
16:39.26brlcadwireframe render just asks the primitives for their segment list and draws them
16:39.52brlcadif it's drawing a combination, it draws subtractions with a dashed line
16:40.04brlcadthe primitive doesn't have a way to say "this is just my bounding box"
16:40.32starseekerhmm - pity
16:41.03brlcadwhat you could do, though, once BB creation is separated from prep() would be to change wireframe render to display a BB (with whatever visual annotation) using the bb routine if the segment list was empty()
16:41.16brlcadcould have another mode that displayed all bounding boxes.. that'd be cool
16:46.25starseekeruh - got a failure - MISSING FROM DIST: ./src/mged/red.c
16:46.31starseekerwhat the
16:46.40starseekeris that file new?
16:47.40starseekerinvestigates
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17:14.05starseekerblinks - the red.c error did NOT occur on OSX
17:15.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33691 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/Makefile.am: Put red.c in EXTRA_DIST to make distcheck happy.
17:24.37starseekerbrlcad:  I recall you finding a "right" way to sync to stable that didn't involve blowing it away - what was the trick?
17:57.36brlcadusing the right command
17:57.54brlcadand right options
17:58.40brlcadI believe I put an example in a commit log message
18:00.31starseekerok.  Is there a way in tcl to direct stderr to stdout the way the 2>&1 trick does in sh?
18:00.52brlcad>&
18:01.09starseekerthanks
18:01.29brlcad"man n exec" lists all the combinations
18:15.55starseekerwonders how the sh logic looking for the mged path can be recreated... hmm...
18:31.00starseekerbrlcad:  If you did comment on the svn options I'm not seeing it in the STABLE merge commits
18:38.16starseekerok, both make distchecks passed - starting the STABLE merge (gulp)
18:43.41CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33692 10/brlcad/tags/rel-7-14-2/: Tag 7.14.2 Release
18:44.42starseekerthat was some strange password stuff it wanted
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19:39.19brlcadstarseeker: that doesn't look right..
19:39.41brlcadtag should be off of STABLE *after* the merge is complete and committed
19:39.53starseekercrud
19:40.00starseekerthen HACKING is wrong
19:40.11brlcadnot a big deal, but fyi for future
19:40.16starseekerk
19:40.22brlcadhacking doesn't know about stable
19:40.27starseekergrr
19:40.47starseekersyncing up STABLE is being a major pita again
19:41.22brlcadwhat is your merge line?
19:41.44starseekersvn merge -r 33115:HEAD https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk
19:41.52starseekerI'm doing it by subdirectories now with better luck
19:42.04brlcaddid you find the commit?
19:42.14brlcadI vaguely recall that being the problem
19:42.16starseekerthe one with your comment? no
19:42.54brlcadit's starting to come back to me..
19:48.02starseekerI'm thinking the header updates are partially clogging it
19:48.12starseekerit means a change for virtually every file
19:48.32brlcadwhich implies something is wrong with the merge line
19:48.36brlcadthat should be a clean merge
19:49.57starseekermy connection keeps timing out
19:54.50brlcadstarseeker: try form 1 for svn merge
19:54.56brlcadinstead of three
19:56.04starseekerform 1?
19:56.13brlcadsvn help merge, the first one
19:56.26brlcadand be specific on all three optional parts
19:56.43brlcadeven if it's the 'default'
19:58.13brlcadi vaguely recall the screwup having something to do with not specifying the from/to explicitly
19:59.45starseekerit doesn't like https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/branches/STABLE@33115
19:59.54starseekersyntax error
20:00.15brlcadplus, the last merge point was r33207
20:00.33brlcadthat's not a valid revision on STABLE
20:00.45brlcadhm!(lightbulb)
20:00.50brlcadthat could cause it
20:01.04brlcadnot valid so it defaults to BASE .. which would be a conflict
20:01.25brlcad(guessing)
20:01.46starseekerit's a syntax error though, not a revision # error
20:02.50starseekeroh, duh
20:03.55starseekerremoves stray -r
20:04.09starseekerOK, I'm gonna grab lunch while that runs
20:05.24brlcadhopes that's a fresh working copy, else it'll still be conflicted
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21:01.21starseekerbrlcad:  still getting the blasted timeout failures
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21:53.53CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33693 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (142 files in 10 dirs): Merge 7.14.2 into STABLE branch - part 1
21:55.59CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33694 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (75 files in 25 dirs): Merge 7.14.2 into STABLE branch - part 2
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21:58.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33695 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/src/ (204 files in 29 dirs): Merge 7.14.2 into STABLE branch - part 3
22:03.08CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33696 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/src/ (374 files in 21 dirs): Merge 7.14.2 into STABLE branch - part 4
22:03.43brlcadheh
22:04.15starseekershakes fist at connection, but at least it merged
22:04.18brlcadany better luck on the merge?
22:04.19starseekerthanks brlcad for that command
22:04.22starseekeryep
22:04.27brlcadcool
22:04.37brlcadin hindsight, I suspect it maybe was just the revision being used
22:04.45brlcadeither that or lack of explicit .
22:04.52starseekerI think lack of explicit
22:05.04starseekerwill stick that in hacking for next time
22:05.21starseekerexpected better of subversion, but oh well
22:09.08starseekerbrlcad:  I'm updating HACKING to include stable
22:10.59louipcwow
22:17.28CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33697 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/src/ (709 files in 57 dirs): Merge 7.14.2 into STABLE branch - part 5
22:18.29starseekerbrlcad: Any idea how to enable "test.s*" matching of database objects in a .g file instead of files on the filesystem from tcl?
22:32.12CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33698 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/src/ (320 files in 15 dirs): Merge 7.14.2 into STABLE branch - part 6
22:32.29CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33699 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/src/ (512 files in 21 dirs): Merge 7.14.2 into STABLE branch - part 7
22:32.41CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33700 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (12 files): Merge 7.14.2 into STABLE branch - part 8
22:32.44starseekerphew
22:32.53starseekerhopes that has got it
22:37.03starseekerbrlcad:  i've gotta run - i can do the pulls on the tagged release and stable later to follow up, as well as uploading the tarballs, or you can take it from here
22:37.08starseekerwhoever gets to it first?
22:42.05CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33701 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: Correct HACKING to take into account the updating of STABLE - tagging should actually happen from stable branch, not from trunk itself.
22:44.23CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33703 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/.mged.tcl.swp: oops, don't want the swap file
22:44.32CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33702 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/ (17 files): Put in early versions of tcl based regression tests, using individual files per-command and using looping logic and procs to make things easier to manage. Early test code, feasibility study.
22:44.50*** join/#brlcad ruskie (i=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie)
23:19.01``Erikweird
23:55.38starseeker``Erik: what?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090207

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090207

00:02.09starseekernotes its 2009 - whoops
00:21.15*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1128565737.dsl.bell.ca)
00:23.33IriX64$ bin/mged -v
00:23.33IriX64mged.c Compiled Feb  6 2009 05:03:18 - Geometry Editor (MGED) Version 7.14.1
00:23.33IriX64Thank you for flying Aberdeen!
00:23.42IriX64that one ran late :)
00:25.38IriX64now to put it in rt.exe
00:29.45IriX64char * bu_ident (char * string)
00:29.45IriX64{
00:29.45IriX64<PROTECTED>
00:29.45IriX64<PROTECTED>
00:29.56IriX64}i dont know where to hide this
00:32.27``ErikO.o
00:32.29``Erikhide? huh?
00:32.37IriX64heh ok put :)
00:33.47IriX64got gcc 4.4 latest snapshot to compile brl-cad, i'm thrilled with those people
00:34.34IriX64mmmm maybe add __VERSION__ to id what compiled it
00:35.23IriX64system ground away for 3.5 hours, sheesh
00:42.12``Erikhow's the version patch coming? ready to put into the sourceforge patch thingiemajigger?
00:42.46IriX64don't know how thats done but ill learn
00:52.13IriX64C:\Users\IriX64>gcc --ver
00:52.13IriX64Using built-in specs.
00:52.13IriX64Target: i686-pc-cygwin
00:52.13IriX64Configured with: ../configure --enable-threads --enable-languages=c,c++,objc,obj
00:52.13IriX64-c++,java,fortran,ada CFLAGS='-march=k8 -mtune=k8 -Wl,-A=k8'
00:52.14IriX64Thread model: posix
00:52.16IriX64gcc version 4.4.0 20090206 (experimental) (GCC)
00:52.25IriX64C:\Users\IriX64>this is a bit much, ill leave now ;)
00:53.10IriX64it happily successfully compiles brl-cad, thhe last one didn't
00:53.50CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33704 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Whoops, it's 2009
00:53.56starseekerarrrgh - it looks like the libged conversion re-introduced the region/attr bug
01:04.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33705 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/ (build_region.tcl mged.tcl regression_resources.tcl): More tcl regression experimentation
01:13.11``Erikeh
01:13.45starseekereh?
01:18.27starseekerneeds a faster computer to compile cpp
01:40.31``Erikcpp--
01:44.15brlcadwhoops
01:44.51archiviststarseeker, just seen a question in a mailing list you could possibly answer. fella wants to know engine was fitted to a World War I Tank
01:47.27starseekerhow it was fitted, or which engine was fitted?
01:47.37archivistwhich engine
01:47.52starseekerIn the Mark VIII, I believe in the US it was the Liberty engine
01:48.05starseekeraircraft engine, that everyone wound up liking and using
01:48.37archivistthnks Ill reply
01:53.45CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33706 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/attr.c: Add back in logic to handle d_flags when attr is handling the region attribute
01:54.06brlcadstarseeker: part why tagging is the very last step, how'd you catch that one?
01:55.25brlcadshould probably resync and retag with the various changes
01:57.15``Erik(assuming cpp is a degredate version of c++, not actually, y'know, cpp, whci is NOT c++)
02:46.09mafmnight
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03:16.23starseekerbrlcad:  using build_region to get around the * wildcard not matching solids, wanted to take region flag off for a test, didn't work
03:16.56starseekerbrlcad:  OK, will do with retagging - just delete previous tag?
03:17.21starseeker``Erik:  going by file name extension
03:20.28starseekerbrlcad:  should I just delete my regress/mged playpen for the moment?
03:25.30starseekerhmm.  clone -i is supposed to increment between each copy, but it only incremented the first one
03:30.32CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33707 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/clone.tcl: OK, tcl clone test works now.
03:31.37*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1128565737.dsl.bell.ca)
03:32.11IriX64http://rafb.net/p/60TnKD55.html  <--- version thingy, just what do you want it to say?
03:34.49IriX64it's yours, make it say whatever you want.
03:35.36IriX64mine lives in libbu
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03:46.20CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33708 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/ (mirror.tcl prefix.tcl): Add mirror and prefix to tcl tests.
03:58.39starseekershould really load libtclcad and work with its commands if I want wildcards, I guess...
04:01.02starseekeror feed things in some way other than source
04:11.00CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33709 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING:
04:11.00CIA-40BRL-CAD: more cleanups on new release steps that include merging to STABLE, particularly
04:11.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: noting how to find the revision number to merge against. include making sure
04:11.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: distcheck works after merge. include examples of how to manually check a
04:11.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: distribution after the dist is made. there's also a step 16. very important
04:11.03CIA-40BRL-CAD: step.
04:11.22brlcadstarseeker: can either delete tag and retag or cp the file(s) that changed
04:11.31brlcaddelete and retag is the save path
04:12.30brlcads/save/safe/
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04:40.48IriX64http://rafb.net/p/N8KWz382.html  <--- this version lets you identify the file or program you're calling it from
04:51.20brlcadIriX64: enthusiasm and direction are better, but you really need to figure out a useful version string -- otherwise we're just doing the work for you and you're just making it more work
04:51.33brlcadrun a few dozen commands on your system, see how they report a version
04:51.38brlcadlook for patterns
04:51.48brlcadmake it something useful
04:51.51brlcadthen post a patch
04:51.51IriX64nitty gritty then
04:52.10brlcadwe don't need 50 pastebins of anything and everything you try and figure out
04:52.22brlcadthe point is to be productive
04:52.38IriX64thanks, was just wondering if anybody was paying attention
04:52.46brlcadwell right now you're just making noise
04:52.53IriX64true
04:52.56brlcadso stop it
04:53.03IriX64done
04:53.11MaloeranEheh, things aren't changed around here
04:53.20Maloeranhaven't* changed
04:53.32IriX64:)
04:53.54Maloerancan become strangely dyslexic when tired
04:54.58MaloeranHow has life been brlcad?
04:55.06brlcadhey Maloeran
04:55.11brlcadgoing great
04:55.22brlcadhaving load of fun
04:59.54*** join/#brlcad Mal (n=maloeran@glvortex.net)
04:59.57brlcadMaloeran: how've you been?  still traveling the world?
05:00.02MalGrah, the wireless connection I'm getting in my hotel room is truly pathetic
05:00.21MalThe other terminal seems frozen for now, it happens quite a bit with a 20% packet loss
05:00.22brlcadfun
05:00.50MalI'm presently in Baltimore, spent the week in Washington for some conference thing, flying back to South America tomorrow
05:01.59MalAre you still working on the same old good stuff, maintenance of BRL-CAD?
05:02.22brlcadabsolutely
05:02.38brlcadnew release going out today
05:02.45MalEheh, that's great
05:03.20MaloeranGrah, the wireless connection I'm getting in my hotel room is truly pathetic
05:03.28brlcadthere were some guys from another group asking if you were still working on some bit of code
05:04.02MaloeranWoohoo, that terminal woke up, and the other froze
05:04.05MalI was in Washington to present our CFD stuff to be used for fire modelling, I think it went well ( I didn't do the talking )
05:04.28MalWorking on what bit of code, raytracing?
05:04.41brlcaddefcon
05:04.56MalOh yes I see
05:05.25MalMark has been keeping me busy with CFD, but it's quite fun
05:05.36brlcadcool
05:05.48MalApparently, people at the conference weren't used to see CFD that stuff ( interactive, real-time on a laptop )
05:06.05MalWith viscosity, shockwaves and other stuff
05:06.11MalCFD that fast*
05:07.31brlcadcool, can't wait to see a demo myself
05:08.47MalWe haven't validated the code with very precise test cases yet... I'm a bit puzzled by how if I plug all the basic fundamental merged properties of air, its shockwaves seem to propagate at 310m/s instead of 340m/s at room temperature
05:09.43MalBut I guess there might be some molecular thing factor, whatever that might be, that isn't just a consequence of the base properties of the fluid
05:10.55MalThat speed isn't related to space or time granularity of the simulation, so this isn't just a computation artefact. Oh well
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05:34.58aslan-ipoa
05:35.08aslan-ipoa
05:35.37aslan-ipoanyone here this late at night?
05:47.55brlcadimpatient
05:49.14starseekerbrlcad:  eh?
05:49.37starseekerI may be too busy tomorrow to redo the release steps on my home box, just fyi
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11:57.10``Erik*yawn*
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17:40.44``Erik_#!~31 bitch, all in bmore and ain't sayin' hi to get a visit rollin', wtff
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19:59.56CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33710 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/src/other/tkhtml3/Makefile.in: this makefile.in is completely wrong, somehow a built version from automake (yet tkhtml3 doesn't use automake)
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20:29.33IriX64http://rafb.net/p/2liozC66.html <-- brlcad, I'm lazy, this one will identify every time, can be used anywhere, no patch for you i'm afraid :)
20:31.23IriX64called with brlcad_identt("The BRL-CAD btclsh ");
20:34.51*** kick/#brlcad [IriX64!n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz] by brlcad (you're not listening)
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20:36.00IriX64man it's a hobby, quit trying to turn it into work :)
20:36.12brlcadquit wasting my time
20:36.52brlcadpatience has expired. if you aren't going to help, then find a new hobby
20:37.02IriX64sure
20:37.07brlcadjust about everyone in here has tried to help you
20:37.38brlcadIriX64: read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NNPP
20:38.08brlcadthat is you without a doubt, and it's time to stop
20:39.25*** mode/#brlcad [+b %*!*IriX64@*] by brlcad
21:02.23yukonbobugh
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23:03.15starseekerboy he really did not want to do anything useful
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090208

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090208

00:14.00yukonbobhates seeing this happen
00:23.04starseekerneeds to once in a while - just how it works :/
00:57.22*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.128.23)
01:56.36yukonbobstarseeker: agreed, but still not pleasant ;)
01:57.08yukonbobbrlcad: congrats and drawing the line that's been a long time coming...
03:43.32brlcadthat doesn't merit congratulations, but it has been a long time coming
03:45.48brlcadI expect the best in people
03:46.26yukonbobwell... congrats is a weird word for it, but a decision had to made, you made it, so "congrats". It's not easy.
03:46.39brlcadit took a while to convince that he just *won't* be helpful in any way even if it was "nearly" certain when he first showed up
03:47.21yukonbobyup... it's like he tried his hardest to avoid learning and being helpful. But whatever... water under the bridge.
03:47.40yukonbobhow's the release coming, or is done?
03:47.41brlcadjust took a few more decimal points of precision, 99%, 99.9%, 99.99%, etc... to be sure he wouldn't
03:47.53yukonbobheh
03:47.53brlcadcoming along, what I'm doing right now
03:47.59yukonbobnods
03:48.00yukonbobnice
03:48.10brlcadstarseeker did most of the hard work
03:48.38yukonbobI had some auto* issues when I went for a complete in-tree build -- no time to pursue before this release though...
03:49.02yukonbobwill bring them up in the next few days hopefully, and start working on models and landscapes again :)
03:49.09brlcadk
03:51.22brlcadnow that I know what all it took to get the mediawiki extension to work, I'm wanting to make one for drupal too.. too much prioritized against it though
03:51.32yukonbobplays with the Tcl C API atm... is fun
03:51.35brlcadweb site needs a new look
03:52.03brlcadTcl C api is some of the best aspects of Tcl imho
03:54.17brlcadstarseeker: any idea how tkhtml3's Makefile.in was clobbered during your merge?  makes me dubious of the merge state
03:54.18yukonbobI've not played 'seriously' in C in a while, but I'm digging this after so many years of high level (esp. Tcl)... swimming up/down the 'stack' in my head between C and Tcl, between proc and functions, C vars and Tcl vars is fun and powerful.
03:56.33yukonbobit's neat to take a look at a task and turn it inside-out/outside-in, thinking "is C-driven Tcl, or Tcl-driven C?"
04:32.51starseekerbrlcad:  no clue how the Makefile.in was clobbered
04:33.07starseekermight be worth a manual diff of the trunk and stable directories
04:36.40starseekerbrlcad: Oh, wait
04:37.26starseekerthere was some sort of conflict with that file - I THOUGHT I copied in the newest version, but maybe not
04:38.13starseekerok, I probably messed it up by not checking the conflict more carefully - my bad
04:38.18starseekersorry :-(
05:45.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33711 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/ (33 files):
05:45.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: OK, rework this one more time. Make the mged logic .mged files, and put tcl
05:45.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: specific stuff all in regression_resources.tcl. Have mged.tcl assemble the
05:45.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: .mged files and run the test - the way the logic is defined it's easy to run
05:45.12CIA-40BRL-CAD: individual tests as well.
05:48.27*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.2 is posted (20080207)
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07:37.27starseekerpuzzles out how to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH from within tcl
07:46.29brlcadset env(LD_LI...)
07:46.49starseekerthanks :-)
07:47.01starseekerI take it the update to STABLE went OK?
07:47.09starseekersaw topic change
07:47.49brlcadwent ahead with the existing tag since it passed testing, patches weren't major
07:47.54starseekerah
07:48.13brlcadstarted the merge, but found a handful of other things to manually review
07:48.15starseeker2008 date and all? ;-)
07:48.35brlcadyep, minor issue
07:48.42starseekerhmm.  how many issues cropped up?
07:49.16brlcadabout 200 files to review
07:49.32brlcadcategorically probably about 50
07:49.51starseekerjeez
07:50.01starseekermust have messed up big time
07:50.30starseekerblast it, I thought that last merge was pretty clean
07:50.48brlcadwell I haven't done the review yet
07:51.51starseekerdoesn't really follow how that could happen - isn't subversion supposed to handle merging of this sort correctly?
07:53.14brlcadit handles merging between revision ranges on subtrees
07:53.24brlcadso our revision numbers may have been different
07:53.34starseekerhmm
07:53.46brlcadwhich by the way, you should include in the comment when you commit any merge
07:54.04starseekerah, right.
07:56.20CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33712 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/ (make_bb.tcl mged.tcl): Whoops, left over tcl test.
07:57.13starseekerpulls a stable tree
07:57.31starseekerI'll try to take a look tomorrow - 3am is reaching my limits :-(
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17:22.38starseekerme growls at sourceforge
17:29.38brlcadstarseeker, been looking into it and looks like the merge was clean other than that one Makefile.in
17:29.50starseekerbrlcad:  phew
17:29.53starseekerthank you!
17:30.12starseekerwas sweating it
17:30.31starseekerwhat were all the diffs about?
17:35.59starseekerstarts plotting in a year or so to do a serious upgrade to his home box...
17:36.28CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33713 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (40 files in 3 dirs): sync with trunk from 33207 through 33711
17:39.24brlcada handful of issues, reapplying merges that had already occurred showing up as a diff, two conflicts (easy to resolve), few diffs that were $Revision:$ identifiers, bunch of ignored files (the generated html file)
17:39.40brlcad*files
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19:38.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33714 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/mged.tcl: Add a few notes on potentially useful tools for the problem of finding and running mged
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20:50.30starseekerbrlcad:  remind me - is there a reason we can't simply always point the regression scripts to ../src/mged/mged as a relative path?
20:57.26starseekeris it that the script deduced that from its own location rather than the current working directory?
21:28.41brlcadstarseeker: hm, I don't remember the exact reason, maybe in the logs, but by having them identify the script location they will run from anywhere
21:29.05brlcadincluding in the $builddir for out-of-dir builds, but also in random 'other' directories like /tmp
21:29.55starseekerbrlcad in /tmp you would have to specify both the script location and the mged bin location - neither can be reliably deduced
21:30.26starseekerhmm.
21:31.07brlcadhm?
21:31.17brlcadit finds both
21:31.44brlcadit's still up to the individual scripts for files it generates
21:31.45starseekerhow?  If you're doing an out of source build, the script location and the bin location may be virtually arbitrary
21:34.01brlcadah, it has since changed -- it used to be told where builddir was
21:35.03brlcadmind you,  it doesn't care about 'bin' location, just builddir and srcdir
21:35.17starseekernods
21:36.24brlcadah, iirc another reason was 'make' portability, where a given make may not recurse the current working directory
21:37.13starseekerhmm
21:38.10brlcadnot that it really matters for the regress scripts much either way .. just need to be able to run them to verify a build under 'some' set of conditions
21:38.16brlcadthey don't need to be arbitrarily flexible
21:39.38starseekertrue
21:39.58starseekeris probably overthinking, but I'd like to have some sort of "correct" solution
21:50.57brlcadwhich per the requirements of a simple, easy-to-grok, and easy to maintain testing environment, that leaves a *whole* lot of room for interpretation
21:51.10brlcadgiven the project's history, though, I would say "less is more" in this particular area
21:51.50starseekersigh
21:52.07starseekerwell, I'll carry my current train of thought to completion, and see what you think
21:52.29starseekerbtw, how do I turn globbing on and off in the mged command line again?
21:52.32brlcadlike I said before, sensitivity to change is the biggest evil
21:52.38brlcadset glob_compat_mode 0
21:52.43starseekerah, thanks
22:29.32CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33715 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/ (18 files):
22:29.32CIA-40BRL-CAD: One more time with regress/mged - mged.tcl can now be run successfully in an
22:29.32CIA-40BRL-CAD: external build directory, but now requires it be passed the path of the top
22:29.32CIA-40BRL-CAD: level source directory (same as mged.sh). This required taking the source
22:29.33CIA-40BRL-CAD: statements out of the .mged files, so a run_test.tcl script has been added. In
22:29.35CIA-40BRL-CAD: theory, this is close to the point where it can be integrated into the build
22:29.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: system successfully, once some sort of diff logic is added.
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04:24.06Mouettein src/libbu/interrupt.c
04:24.39Mouetteinterrupt.c:66: error: syntax error before "_bu_signal_func"
04:24.41Mouetteinterrupt.c:75: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
04:24.42Mouetteinterrupt.c: In function `bu_suspend_signal':
04:24.44Mouetteinterrupt.c:108: warning: comparison between pointer and integer
04:24.45Mouetteinterrupt.c:112: warning: assignment makes integer from pointer without a cast
04:24.47Mouetteinterrupt.c:113: warning: comparison between pointer and integer
04:24.48Mouetteinterrupt.c:114: error: `sig_t' undeclared (first use in this function)
04:24.50Mouetteinterrupt.c:114: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
04:24.51Mouetteinterrupt.c:114: error: for each function it appears in.)
04:24.53Mouetteinterrupt.c:114: error: syntax error before numeric constant
04:24.55Mouetteinterrupt.c: In function `bu_restore_signal':
04:24.56Mouetteinterrupt.c:147: error: `sig_t' undeclared (first use in this function)
04:24.58Mouetteinterrupt.c:147: error: syntax error before "ret"
04:24.59Mouetteinterrupt.c:149: warning: comparison between pointer and integer
04:25.01Mouetteinterrupt.c:154: error: `ret' undeclared (first use in this function)
04:25.02Mouetteinterrupt.c:154: warning: passing arg 2 of `signal' makes pointer from integer without a cast
04:25.04Mouetteinterrupt.c:155: error: syntax error before numeric constant
04:25.06Mouettesig_t ,solaris hasn't the fonction
04:25.09CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33716 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS README include/conf/PATCH): source release 7.14.2 is posted, make updates for the next expected revision (7.14.4).
04:30.25CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33717 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: NEWS and README versions for the next release can match for simplicity. only include/conf needs to strictly obey odd revisioning.
04:33.23brlcadMouette: hm, looks like you're on a non-posix conforming platform
04:33.30brlcadwhat's the OS/version?
04:33.40brlcadmissing sig_t
04:36.29brlcad"might" be able to trick it with: make CPPFLAGS=-D"sig_t=void*"
04:40.05brlcadalso, what does signal() return on your platform (man 3 signal)
05:50.35Mouettemy OS version is Solaris Express Developer Edition 1/8
05:50.53MouetteSunOS solaris 5.11 snv_79a i86pc i386 i86pc
05:52.15Mouettein signal manpage: it have these fonction:
05:52.18Mouettesignal, sigset, sighold,  sigrelse,  sigignore,  sigpause
05:56.20Ralithsolaris 5?
05:56.27Ralithisn't that incredibly old?
05:59.18Mouetteit's solaris 11, solaris 11 = SunOS 5.11
05:59.28MouetteSolaris 10 = Sun
05:59.36MouetteSunOS 5.10
06:03.50Ralithoh
06:03.55Raliththat's weird.
08:10.06Mouettekill.c: In function `bu_terminate':
08:10.07Mouettekill.c:59: error: `HANDLE' undeclared (first use in this function)
08:10.09Mouettekill.c:59: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
08:10.10Mouettekill.c:59: error: for each function it appears in.)
08:10.12Mouettekill.c:59: error: syntax error before "hProcess"
08:10.14Mouettekill.c:60: error: `hProcess' undeclared (first use in this function)
08:10.15Mouettemake: *** [kill.lo] Error
08:10.35Mouettethese fonctions are brlcad's fonctions?
08:11.29Mouettein src/libbu/kill.c
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11:03.22d-loyawns
11:03.26d-loMernin
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12:52.47CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33718 10/rt^3/trunk/ (40 files in 10 dirs): Organizational changes to tidy up the dir structure a bit.
13:27.40d-lo``Erik__: Hey, if you are in today,I would like to work on getting those X11 dev headers installed.
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13:51.50d-lobrlcad: what is the cmd line arg for disabling the x11 build part of brlcad?
14:01.23brlcadshould just be --without-x11 but it is rarely a tested configuration so it might need some minor manual massaging, ./configure --help and the INSTALL file document in more detail
14:03.19d-lookie.  I will mess with it.
14:54.22d-loHrm, libdm seems to be the culprit.  even with --without-X11 its still whining about needing X11/Xlib.h :/
14:55.21_sushi_d-lo: --without-X11/Xlib.h?
14:55.41_sushi_d-lo: or try su -; touch /usr/include/C11/Xlib.h ;-)
14:57.22d-lowell, a) thats not a valid package :P and B) I don't have su or root privs on this machine :/
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17:22.24starseekerwants Macvim
17:33.37d-lobrlcad: So... how much *does* the top weigh? :D
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18:15.54CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33719 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/mged.tcl: Make mged.tcl's logic and naming a bit more generic, so it can be re-used more easily for other commands
19:15.41CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33720 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/mged.tcl: Make the logic for finding binary locations in mged.tcl more sophisticated.
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19:53.53CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33721 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/mged.tcl: Tweak add_test, run_test for greater flexibility
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21:49.46starseekerbrlcad:  Is there any standard way to run tclsh from within the build process, e.g. ${TCLSH} as opposed to ${SH}?
21:51.41starseekerheads for gym
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22:02.39starseekerbrlcad:  nevermind, found it
22:02.42starseekerreally heads for gym
22:04.19CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33722 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/mged.tcl: remove individual clone test
22:05.33CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33723 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac regress/Makefile.am regress/mged/Makefile.am): Test adding the tcl based regression logic to the build system.
22:55.56yukonbobstarseeker: what's the answer?
23:17.21brlcadstarseeker: can you give mged (gui) a test -- report that it is accepting no commands on the command-line when it starts up until a database is opened
23:17.26brlcadnot even bad ones
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090210

00:04.36brlcadstarseeker: just caught one of the first commits from today -- the *_LIBRARY_PATH foo you're using won't work
00:04.53starseekerhmm. OK
00:04.56brlcadthose are read by the linker before/while a binary is being loaded
00:05.18starseekerwas basing it off the sh scripts
00:05.28brlcadif you're running the tclsh that got you to those set env()'s then you're not on a platform/environment that needed them set in the first place
00:05.39brlcadyep, they set it *before* the binary is called
00:05.57starseekerI thought I was too
00:06.00starseekerlooks again
00:06.15brlcadI'm looking at tcl code..
00:06.23brlcadif it's running tcl code, then it doesn't matter
00:06.32starseekeroh, point
00:06.33brlcadbecause tclsh is running
00:06.36starseekerk
00:06.44brlcadld is done with its job
00:07.09brlcadthere is an old hack you can use, though -- a script that doubles as both a shell and tcl script -- old trick
00:08.06brlcadlook at src/tclscripts/ami.tcl to see an example -- it's a shell script that can be invoked as either a shell script or a tcl script
00:08.27CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33724 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/mged.tcl: Remove env logic - won't work inside tclsh
00:08.28brlcadactually better example
00:08.33brlcadlook at src/archer/archer
00:08.42brlcadthat even sets env vars and reinvokes
00:09.40brlcadthe "trick" is because tcl and sh handle line-comments differently, with sh ignoring comment continuations and tcl not ignoring them
00:10.54starseekerblast - I was hoping staying completely within tcl land would avoid the need for shell scripting, and let us run these on Windows
00:11.37brlcadit would run on windows
00:11.56brlcadthey work as tcl scripts -- and on windows you're not going to have an LD error
00:12.09starseekerah
00:12.20brlcadfed through tclsh, it'll ignore the shell lines
00:13.19brlcadfor the nix platforms, they can either be fed through sh (which will read the sh lines, set *_LIBRARY_PATH accordingly, and then reinvoke as tcl) or push the LD wrapping back up into make (like src/tclscripts/Makefile.am does for ami.tcl)
00:13.46starseekerHmm.  What's the preferred way?
00:14.15brlcadprobably to push it up into the Makefile.am
00:14.22brlcadkeeps the scripts more simple like you have them
00:14.28brlcadrather, even more so
00:15.12brlcadif it really gets messier than the three lines it takes now, you could wrap the whole thing in a script anyways
00:15.42starseekernods
00:15.54starseekerI'll give the Makefile.am way a quick go
00:16.43brlcadsee if mged works for you though .. don't have a clean build here, but if that's a prevalent bug, that'd require an emergency fix and release of 7.14.6
00:17.58starseekerlet me check
00:18.26starseekerwhat command is it accepting?
00:18.33brlcadanything and everything
00:18.36brlcadsdlfakjhsdlkj
00:18.53starseekeryeah - I don't know if it's doing anything with them but it is accepting them
00:19.20brlcadnope, nothing works afaict
00:19.22starseekerI take it it should be flashing the error about no db being open?
00:19.23brlcadopendb test.g
00:19.33brlcadevery command fails
00:19.39starseekersame here
00:19.40brlcadrather .. does nothing
00:19.51brlcadokay, that's pretty critical
00:20.04starseekerhrm - libged related?
00:20.23brlcaddon't know but highly possible
00:20.30starseekeroh great
00:20.44starseekerstarts digging in src/mged
00:21.08brlcadpulls the source uploads
00:24.48brlcadarf, have to do a 7.14.4 as soon as that's fixed
00:32.42CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33725 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/Makefile.am: Move the path logic to Makefile.am where it will actually work (thanks Sean)
00:36.53starseekerhmm - ged_refresh_handler calls refresh...
00:40.53starseekerOK, it never gets as far as calling f_quit when I type quit, so its messed up before that...
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00:51.26starseekerbrlcad:  Ick - this is one of those right on the border between Tcl and C
00:51.36starseekerit's getting to refresh
00:51.57andrecastelohowdy :D
00:52.19starseekerhowdy :-)
01:22.08starseekerbrlcad:  right now, my best guess is that it has something to do with gedp->ged_gdp->gd_rtCmdNotify being set to mged_rtCmdNotify when a file is loaded, but not without a file loaded (since gedp doesn't point to a structure)
01:31.59starseekerIf I do the naive thing and initialize a ged struct with a pointer to NULL, it starts up in classic mode and doesn't correctly handle anything.
01:32.29starseekerperhaps ged has some sort of built in assumption about a database being open before processing commands?
01:34.01starseekerin src/mged/mged.c lines 657-680 is where mged_rtCmdNotify is being assigned
01:34.16starseekeror not assigned, as the case may be
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02:57.45Mouetteso,these problems still haven't solution in solaris platform?
03:06.43Mouette7.14.2 sourcecode in sourceforge.net is disappear!!!! @@
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03:54.04starseekerMouette:  We found a problem that needs fixing
03:56.52Mouetteso you delete that sourcecode?
03:57.04starseekerbrlcad took it down, I believe
03:57.20starseekeryou can still get the source code from svn, if you want it - but it's busted right now
03:57.54Mouetteno, i like wait stable version
04:00.02brlcadMouette: I disabled it, though I believe the direct link is still valid if you had it -- there's a problem with it so it was disabled
04:02.35brlcadstarseeker: I've not looked, but the problem almost guaranteed has something to do with the ged command wrapper in mged
04:02.53starseekerI emailed Bob
04:03.09starseekerneeds to get some sleep tonight, but he may be able to spot it right off tomoroww morning
04:03.21starseekercan't spell
04:04.11brlcadbets it's cmd.c:351
04:05.00starseekerthat could be it
04:05.31starseekerwonders why he didn't notice that in the gdb back trace for the case with a file loaded
04:05.37brlcadyep
04:05.47brlcadgedp is only set during f_opendb
04:05.51brlcadthat's not right
04:41.31brlcadnow the other question is how classic mode works but graphical doesn't
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06:25.09brlcadcloses up gdb for the night only fixing the one bug but not very well
06:26.45CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33726 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (mged.c setup.c): gedp needs to be non-null. it should exist for the life of the caller making libged calls. move ged init into mged_setup but keep the wdbp association else all goes to hell.
06:29.10brlcadthat seemds to do the trick here, but I'm sure there's more to it
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11:05.58d-loMorning all!
11:06.21brlcadyawns
11:07.45d-lojust waking or getting ready to crash?
11:07.55d-loor do I already know the answer :)
11:08.37d-lojust FYI: /usr/bin/ld: skipping incompatible /usr/X11/lib/libX11.so when searching for -lX11
11:08.50d-loso I think I will talk with Brian today :/
11:09.06brlcadwhat type is it?
11:09.31d-loWhat type is what?  The X11 lib?
11:09.35brlcadyep
11:09.54brlcadif it's incompatible, you can often make it compatible
11:10.00d-loI get that linker error for both the .so and the .a
11:10.04brlcadsure
11:10.24brlcadit's the 'why' it's incompatible that matters
11:10.34d-loI am going to try a few more things.  I just noticed the path is getting the libs from /lib/ and not /lib64/
11:10.46d-loHow can I find out the 'why' ?
11:11.04brlcaddon't guess, just run "file" on it -- it'll tell you its type, then run file on one of your .o files to see what type you're building
11:12.06d-lorun file on one of the .o's generated during the brlcad build?
11:12.19brlcadyou have others? :)
11:12.34d-lo:) Just verifying info when I am in uncharted waters :)
11:12.49d-loapologizes for abnoxious q's :)
11:13.45brlcadis usually sarcastic, bitter, and brief in the unintended early prelight hours
11:14.46d-lowell, the build is hanging up in: brlcad/src/other/tk/unix/ and so i picked the last .o generated: tkUnixXId.o: ELF 64-bit LSB relocatable, AMD x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), not stripped
11:15.02d-lo....and that tells me that I am building a 64-bit version?
11:19.45brlcadit tells you a lot of things, one being that it's building 64-bit version
11:20.18brlcadmore importantly, what is the .so's type
11:21.06brlcadalso important is whether it was incompatible, skipped, and it simply used something else (that was compatible) or whether it skipped and linked nothing/failed
11:21.21brlcadthe message by itself could be innocuous
11:21.42d-lothe .so files are not generated yet.
11:21.51d-loor are you speaking of the .so of the X11 libs
11:21.52d-lo?
11:21.53brlcado.O
11:22.08brlcadi'm speaking of the .so that is supposedly .. incompatible
11:23.04brlcadthe point is you compare types to see why it's incompatible
11:23.14brlcadif it's a simple 32/64, you can do something about that
11:23.51d-loYeah, its saying its a 32bit lib.  
11:24.43d-loHrm, configure is showing both -L/usr/X11/lib and -L/usr/X11/lib64 for linker flags
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11:26.28brlcadhence my other point
11:26.43brlcadrather important is whether it was incompatible, skipped, and it simply used something else (that was compatible) or whether it skipped and linked nothing/failed
11:27.25d-loWell I have tried ./configure --with-x11=/usr/X11/lib64 (and a few other variants) with no change :/
11:28.35brlcadbut have you confirmed that you need to change it?
11:28.46d-loOkay, more info:
11:28.58brlcadgiven both dirs are listed, the incompatible statement probably doesn't matter
11:29.11d-loWhen I simply ./configure, I get a LD error stating it cannot find -lX11
11:29.39d-loWhen I ./configure --with-x11=/usr/X11 then I get the incompatable error.
11:29.59d-loSo I know i need to point the configure to the 64 bit flavor of X11, but I am not succeeding.
11:30.13brlcaddo you even *have* a 64-bit flavor of X11
11:30.57d-loyep: libX11.so: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, AMD x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), stripped
11:31.21d-loafter you tossed me the 'file' bone, I went and verified the files in the /usr/X11/lib64 dir
11:31.36d-loso its there, but the pathing is somehow messed up :/
11:31.47brlcadso then it's just path foo missing
11:32.13brlcadtry --enable-64bit, if that doesn't work try setting flags directly yourself
11:32.28d-loi add that -- to the ./configure?
11:32.29brlcad./configure LDFLAGS="..." CPPFLAGS="..." CFLAGS=".."
11:32.33brlcadyep
11:32.52brlcadiirc, that may swap the search ordering
11:32.58brlcadbut no promises
11:33.05d-loheh.
11:33.09brlcadit's just as easy to force it manually
11:33.18d-lomake
11:33.24d-lodamn, wrong window.
11:34.33d-lonope same thing... lemme try setting the LDFLAGS manually.
11:34.38d-loThanks for your help btw.
11:36.03brlcadfyi, if you have both, there's not much for brian to do -- you have everything you need
11:36.56d-loi figured.  email not sent yet.
11:39.41d-loHrm, well thats annoying.  I used ./configure LDFLAGS="blahhblah" and it just appened all the previous flags to the end of what I supplied.... so /usr/X11/lib is still there :/
11:40.09brlcadordering matters
11:40.24brlcaddoesn't matter if there are extras if it finds the one you need first
11:40.56d-lois beginning to see what starseeker and others scream about sometimes :)
11:41.22brlcadnewbies
11:41.35d-loHey!  I resemble that remark.
11:43.10brlcadunderstanding linkage and search paths in detail is usually something hammered in hard in a first-year cs program
11:43.19d-loare there adverse effects to using make -j ?
11:43.22brlcadat least it used to be
11:43.33brlcadd-lo: yes, it compiles adversely faster
11:43.44brlcadon smp hardware
11:44.55d-lo:P  I knew that, just wanted to know if it f-ed up the build in any way.
11:45.28brlcadwouldn't be a very useful option if it did
11:46.20d-lotrue, but there is enough nuainces to this whole 'make' thing that its a perfectly valid question/concern :P
11:46.47brlcadonly with your current uncertain state of reasoning
11:48.10d-lo./configure LDFLAGS="-L/usr/X11/lib64" nor  ./configure LDFLAGS="-L/usr/X11/lib64" --with-x11=/usr/X11 works... still same errors :?
11:48.13brlcadthere are certainly potential effects, as with any option, but nothing that matters right now that you'd run into
11:49.05brlcadlook at the actual test in the config.log and see why
11:49.46brlcadcould be not using it or something else overriding it or wrong order or missing some other flag or ...
11:50.29d-lookay, one sec.
11:51.06brlcadcould also move the 32bit lib out of the way
11:51.27brlcadbut wouldn't do that until you know what all usses it
11:51.46brlcadwanders off for a bit, have fun
11:52.06d-lolata!
12:05.16d-lobrlcad:  I know you are away, but are we still using Doxygen?  We moving to something else?
12:12.07louipcI took first year CS 7yrs ago. We learned java. I made a tic tac toe game with the swing toolkit woo.
12:15.08starseekerd-lo:  We're still set up to use Doxygen, but I don't know if anyone has played with it lately
12:15.30starseekerwe need to do a lot of work on "doxygenifying" things, IIRC
12:15.35d-lostarseeker: Whats the code documentation of choice now?  (Or is there?)
12:19.41d-lostarseeker: Docbook is for.... the tutorials and such?
12:21.35louipcdocbook is for documenting libraries and such
12:21.59louipcerrm not
12:22.06louipcd-lo: you got it :D
12:22.29louipcI just woke up
12:24.02d-loalrighty then, thanks :)
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12:35.58brlquestionsHi again !
12:36.19louipchi
12:36.22brlquestionshi louipc
12:36.33brlquestionsI have one question ...
12:36.50brlquestionsthe g-stl conversor is very slow ... is it normal ?
12:37.15louipcI don't know
12:37.45d-log-stl uses the facetiation/tessilation routines and, yes, can be *very slow*
12:37.55brlquestionsOK ... thank you d-lo
12:38.13brlquestionsI was wondering if there was some pathological operation in my model ...
12:38.25d-lothere have been times where I have fired off a tessilation just before I leave work for the day, so it would be done by the time I get in the next day.
12:38.48louipcis it slower than raytracing?
12:38.55d-lobut these models I speak of are 75-100MB files with tens of thousands of primitives.
12:39.23d-lolouipc: all depends on the complexity of the object(s) you are facetizing.
12:39.29brlquestionsNo ... I'm talking about 20 minutes for one bezier solid extrusion intersected with a spherical shell
12:39.36louipcok
12:39.39d-logennerally though, raytracing is much much faster.
12:40.43d-lobrlcad: I have only delt with an extrusion *once* in the past 3 years of modeling and then it was for hobby purposes only.  I never tried to shove it through a tessilator.
12:41.00brlquestionsOK ... thanks !
12:41.05d-loOops, that was ment for brlquestions not brlcad ;)
12:41.10d-lobrlq
12:41.26d-lobrlquestions: If it finishes succesfully, I would like to know the time it took!
12:41.46brlquestionsabout 20 minutes with a cylindrical shell ...
12:42.00louipcpix or it didn't happen
12:42.00brlquestionsthe spherical one is running now !
12:42.08d-lolouipc: lol
12:42.37d-lobrlquestions: how was the quality of the resulting BoT?
12:43.10brlquestionsI think it was good ... but anyway I need a spherical shell intersection prior
12:43.15brlquestionsto laser sintering it ...
12:45.33brlquestionsmy boss only wants to perform expensive experiments (sinterizing) only on models closer to final products.
12:45.47brlquestionsNo cylinders ... spheres !!!
12:46.24louipcsounds neat
12:48.23brlquestionsOK ... the tesellation finished right now ! 24 minutes !
12:48.28brlquestionsgood results !
12:53.09d-loah, its nice to see all 4 cores at 100% :)
12:54.29d-lobrlcad:  I think I found an issue with the Makefiles.  in at least two Make files, the LDFLAG of -L/usr/X11/lib64 is being changed to -L/usr/lib64 ... dunno why quite yet
12:55.38brlquestionscheck your mail d-lo !
12:55.48brlquestionsthere's a screen capture of the BoT ..
12:58.53d-lolookin good!
13:34.12CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33727 10/rt^3/trunk/ (7 files in 6 dirs): Forgot to svn add the GeometryChunk.h file. Also includes a few minor fixes a new Exception subclass.
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13:40.04CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33728 10/rt^3/trunk/src/GeometryService/netMsg/GeometryChunkMsg.cxx: Also forgot to include the source for GeometryChunkMsg.
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13:56.08d-loanyone:  Shouldn't 'make install' copy the includes/ dir over?  I am looking for bu.h and it just isn't there... libbu.so is, but not the header....
13:57.50louipcyeah it should
13:58.11d-loglares at this evil machine.
13:58.33d-loMore than likely operator error, but for now I blame the machine.
14:00.10louipc:D
14:03.51d-loa ha.  workeded that time.
14:03.56d-loglares at this evil machine.
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15:27.56``Erik___yes, it should go ito $PREFIX/include/
15:31.03brlcad$prefix/include/brlcad
15:31.20brlcadfor the brlcad headers and top-level include for the external dep headers
15:31.59d-losomething went foobar with the first time 'round.  removed it and tried again and it worked.
15:32.54d-loOddness is that in 2 Makefiles in the tk dirs, the LDFLAG for the X11 was changed from /usr/X11/lib64 to /usr/lib64 ....
15:33.30d-loquick change back and it was compiling just fine..
15:34.22d-lo``Erik: How ya feelin?
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15:44.19``Erikunderground
15:46.16starseeker``Erik:  hiding?
15:46.31d-loWell I just got the call from my oldest's school... apperantly he blew chunks all over the playground..... Just when i thought we had this bug beat....
15:46.44starseekerarrgh
15:46.56_sushi_blew chunks all over the playground?
15:47.15d-lovomit
15:49.27``ErikI assume the whif is collecing thim?
15:49.33``Eriks/ t/ /
15:50.01``Erikhope is recoups soon :(
15:50.08``Eriks/is/he/
15:50.21_sushi_d-lo: what bug?
15:50.22``Erikkeyboard is outsmarting me today
15:50.27d-loYuppers.  just got a little concerned with that call and you not being here either.... might be a trend and I don't want to burn any more sick leave :/
15:50.46d-lo_sushi_: Stomach flu probably.
15:50.59``Erikno, I drank myself fucktarded last night and am recouping
15:51.14``Erik<-- epic fail.
15:51.27starseekerwhat'd you do that for???
15:51.33d-loah, okay, well then perhaps its not another epidemic :/
15:51.38``Erikuh, same reason folk climb everest
15:51.56``Erikone tequlia two tequila three tequila floor :)
15:52.06starseekershakes head
15:52.13d-loPlaying MMOs while heavily intoxicated is a whole new level of entertainment.
15:52.18``Erikoh yeah
15:52.32``Erikpunker recounted last nights mmo episode to me
15:52.36starseekeryou might want to pick a somewhat less physically damaging pointless challenge ;-)
15:52.36``ErikI was in rare form :D
15:53.10d-lothere is nothing worse than an 'angry drunk' Dwarf at the bar.... man they can be A-holes.
15:53.12``Erikapparently, I am very giving and loving when fucked up
15:53.30starseekerwow, you WERE smashed ;-)
15:53.40``Erik"no, I don't need loot, I'm happy with the experience... dude, you wanna go grab a beer? come on down to baltirmoe, man"
15:54.05d-lolol
15:54.42d-loloots a *glowing* Pint of Guiness + 4
15:54.56``Erikso yeah, I felt the notion of driving this morning would have been ... bad :)
15:55.57d-logood call.
15:56.09``Erikamusingly, I've done some of my best coding either drunk off my arse, or right after my wisdom teeth, one shattered so they gave me a codeine cocktail, I was wobbling in my chair but knocked out a buttload of code
15:56.19d-logives you a chance to go farming and make up for the income loss that occurred last night :)
15:56.32``Erikmeh, I got money out the butt on that game
15:56.57``Erikas usual, the upgrade are strictly from places I'm not geared to go.
15:57.10d-lodidn't need to know what ``Erik did with his money while drunk....
15:57.21``Erikthey went all donation and gave me luvin' last night, and I went and liquored myself up stupid to fuck shit up
15:57.41``Erik<-- pissed at himself
15:58.06d-loNo Leeroy then?  More Erik Teresa that normal? :D
15:58.24``Erikheh, no, I don't leroy, I go all pussyfood
15:58.27``Erikfoot
15:58.41``Erik"wait, what? did you guys pull? I LOVE YOU MANG"
15:59.16d-loPersonnally, I think suicidal raids on zones with naked toons is funny.
15:59.26``Erik"I don't need loot, I'm just happy I'm here"
15:59.34d-loBoth to watch and participate in.
15:59.47``Erikheh, that's become a tradition, everyone groups up at the instance start and the tank is standing there butt nekkid
15:59.50d-lolol, just Lovin Life eh?
16:00.46d-loonce I get my lappy back to some resemblance of useful, I will install wine and see if I can get some games runnin :)
16:00.57``Erikand I've participated in full group nekkid runs through instances (the notion being we die, we die a lot, we're trying to eliminate the repair cost)
16:01.14``Erikjust buy yourself a mac, man :D
16:01.23``Erike-humps steve jobs leg
16:01.32d-lohas a better idea: You buy me a Mac!
16:01.41d-lolol
16:01.43d-lodown boy
16:02.23``Erikif'n yall want a long lunch, I'll come down to duclaws or festival or something
16:02.32d-loYou don't happen to know if OSX has been sucessfully installed/ran on non Apple hardware... do ya?
16:02.47CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33729 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/samples/GetRegionMap.java: Eliminated use of java 6 specifics, because this is now used in gomez (needs to be java 5 compatible)
16:03.05``Erikum, there was a system that apple sued out of existance that did it
16:03.21d-lowell, i was talking more 'hack' that legit.
16:03.23``Erikand um, there was just an article on how to do it on smackslot a couple days ago
16:03.56d-lothinks running OSX on a Dell would be funny :)
16:04.00``Erikfranky, apple puts out some damn nice hardware, I think it's worth the premium
16:04.12d-loagrees.
16:04.26d-lobut worth it or not, new puter hardware is not in the budget.
16:04.29``ErikI'm a bit pissed that I can't find teh white&clear keyboard anymore
16:05.01d-lolol.... Hackintosh OSX
16:05.56``Erikthe new style keyboard is awfully well built, but lacks
16:06.27``Erik<-- hugs his macbook, but admits that it's not egonomeric
16:07.05d-loin the words of the unknown Apple FanBoi: "sure, its not ergonmic or cheap, but its an Apple!"
16:07.22``Erikyeah, pretty much
16:07.25d-locan't remember where he heard that, but it made him ill.
16:07.34d-loi felt like smacking that guy.
16:07.43``Erikat least it still has nipples
16:08.21``Erikthough when they moved them from the middle fingers to the pointers, that pissed me off
16:08.35``Erikthey belong on d and k, not f and j, damnit
16:08.49``Erikshakes cane
16:09.00d-lolol
16:09.13d-loso, where are these lunch places in which you speak?
16:09.29``Erikduclaws is kinda close to the harford mall
16:09.34``Erikfestival is down 24
16:09.52``Erikthey're generally considered "too far away" for lunch
16:10.39``Erik2+ hour dealies
16:10.48d-loah, well never mind then :/
16:10.51``Erikbut I wont' drive an hour to go to lunch :)
16:11.31``Erikyeah, I assumed *shrug*
16:12.26``Erikduclaws is a microbrewery, so not up your alley anways
16:12.35d-loheh, I really do think I am going to try this Hackentosh approach ;)
16:12.36``Erikfestival has a japanese place that isn't too bad
16:13.15``Eriktotally, the killer is gonna be the bios crap, macs used to use openfirmware and are now like epi or something
16:13.41``Erikso you'll need 10.5 and the right hw
16:14.43Dr_Phreakenstein... can be done with qemu... is a lot of work, and requires just the right hardware to avoid some /serious/ driver issues
16:15.40d-loneed to aquire 10.5 for some testing ;)
16:15.53Dr_PhreakensteinI would say not worth it in all but the most unique circumstances (must run x software on y hardware, cannot afford correct solution)
16:16.19Dr_Phreakensteinconvince someone to give you shell access to their machine
16:16.37d-loyou lost me...
16:17.06d-lowhy would I need shell access to someone else's machine?
16:17.08Dr_Phreakensteinfind someont with 10.5 and get them to let you have some time on their HW
16:17.39d-lofor what purpose?
16:18.41Dr_Phreakenstein[20090210 08:15:42] <d-lo> need to aquire 10.5 for some testing ;)
16:18.58d-loheh, I mend the disc(s) for installation testing.
16:19.06d-los/mend/meant/
16:20.22Dr_Phreakensteinwhy the need for installation testing? it will work on real HW, fail on most everything else (BIOS checksum, or other scheme to lock you out)
16:20.56d-loI have a Dell lappy, and I want to see if i can get OS10.5 running on it :)
16:21.31``Erikjust grab fbsd :D or linux, y'know, if you're lame
16:21.48Dr_Phreakensteinclears throat
16:21.52Dr_Phreakensteinloudly
16:22.13Dr_Phreakensteinthen chants "gentoo, gentoo!"
16:22.16``Eriksorry, done too much kernel work, can't respect leenewx no mo'
16:22.41Dr_Phreakensteinthat's you, man
16:22.52``Erikyes, that is me
16:23.02d-loi was wondering who that was...
16:23.13Dr_PhreakensteinI have converted from winedo$e in 96, and never looked back
16:23.49``ErikI went to linux in '95, fbsd in '97 or '98, after witnessing the horrors from kernel hacking
16:23.58Dr_Phreakensteintried bsd in 98 or so, not impressed, went back to slackware
16:24.04``Erikbeen a kernel hacker of some form or another since '86
16:24.28Dr_Phreakensteinwell, back then, fbsd was a much better kernel
16:24.28``Erikinterrupt vectors on c64's, yo
16:24.33Dr_Phreakenstein!
16:24.43Dr_PhreakensteinI had one...
16:24.59d-loYou don't know the power of the Vic-20 ....
16:25.07``Erikbeen watching, linux has spastic upgrades, but often throws them away and adopts what fbsd did 5 years before
16:25.16Dr_Phreakensteinsold it to that chick that reverse engineered it and made one in FPGAs
16:25.29Dr_Phreakensteinthey were popular in Germany, I am told
16:25.57``Erikin the last decade, I've seen ONE significant linux accomplishment adopted into fbsd. One.
16:25.59Dr_Phreakensteinno, i don't know the power of vic-20
16:26.07Dr_Phreakensteinok
16:26.29``Erikthe zero copy network shit, which was re-organized like mad due to security concerns :D
16:26.50``Erikthough ingo's scheduler got some attention
16:26.51Dr_Phreakensteinstill not switching, too much infrastructure in place, time learning, also i like the performance i get
16:26.57d-loway out int he middle of the AZ desert.. I was l33t with my cassette drive... my parents pheared me.
16:27.18Dr_Phreakenstein... until global warming melted your tape
16:27.21``Erikhehehhe, I was buying the 120 minute cassettes to hold more data :D
16:27.33Dr_Phreakenstein... wait, that was just an ordinary day in may
16:27.37d-loI think I ended up taking the whole machine out for target practice one day...
16:27.48``Erikyes, they failed sooner, and had a higher doa, but when they worked, it was sweet
16:28.19Dr_Phreakensteinanyone ever use a 2.88 mB 3.5" floppy?
16:28.27Dr_PhreakensteinWORM?
16:28.40d-loyeah, the 'super-HD'floppies.
16:28.54Dr_Phreakensteinor ls-120 super disk
16:28.58d-lonever messed with them much.... jumped straight to 'SuperDisk' !
16:28.58Dr_Phreakensteinfrom panasonic
16:29.09Dr_Phreakensteinnice
16:29.27d-loI was on the iOmega Zip Disk bandwagon for a while...
16:30.02Dr_Phreakensteinuntil wheels fell off..."read error !@#$&$%T#$..."
16:30.13d-loyeah, that was a waste of money.
16:30.43Dr_PhreakensteinSD cards, that's the way to go. or CF
16:30.56Dr_Phreakensteina great backup solution, they are
16:31.23Dr_Phreakenstein32 gig CF, get 2 of them to B/U system on rotating basis
16:32.05d-loheh, um, I have 2 500GB drives, 1 160 and a handfull of 80's.... won't work for me :/
16:32.22Dr_Phreakensteinthat's all?
16:32.42Dr_PhreakensteinI have lot's more, but everything else is on RAID
16:33.35Dr_Phreakensteinwith (ahem) gentoo, all of my packages are tarred and bzipped in a certain dir, and that is not much data
16:34.08Dr_Phreakensteinadd that to a tar file of my etc dir and boot dir, and that is a good backup
16:34.29Dr_Phreakensteincrap! gotta go to class
16:34.34Dr_Phreakensteinhave fun, kids
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16:34.58CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33730 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/ (run_test run_test.tcl): Take a stab at getting a run_test sh script/tcl script hybrid
16:35.47d-loand you can back 1.5TB+ up on 2 32Gig CF cards with Gentoo?  Thats Frickin amazing!!!!!! :P
16:40.06d-lowell, without furthing any HardDrive envy that is floating around here, the 1TB (ish) i have is a pain in the butt to back up to CDs as it is, so using CF cards would make me want to gouge my own eyes out.
16:40.10d-lo;)
16:44.04CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33731 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/run_test: Go for a system tclsh if the local btclsh isn't found - for this it won't matter.
16:46.16brlcadstarseeker: if you're not mid-stream, distcheck
16:47.44CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33732 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/run_test: Allow user to supply source directory as second option
16:47.50starseekerbrlcad:  Ok, I'm sure I'm busted on that ;-)
16:48.07starseekeryou're happy with the mged fix for the no-db case?
16:48.26d-lobrlcad: In looking through libpkg, i am thinking it is posible to use libpkg with out passing a callback table to a pkg_conn .....that sound about right?
16:52.05d-lobrlcad: Message from Ed:  Call him at x6300.
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17:20.37starseekerprods CIA
17:23.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33733 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/Makefile.am: It's run_test now
17:34.41d-lobrlcad: I will need to sitdown and talk libpkg with you... I am just not seeing the light :/
17:38.12starseekerbrlcad:  make distcheck passed on the Mac
18:30.16starseekerand on linux
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19:55.09CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33734 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/ (11 files): Add the geometry displaying commands to regress/mged/mged.tcl
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20:56.03CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33735 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/gtools/g_diff.c): fixed g_diff crash reported by lee butler where g_diff crashed with a badmagic error bu_bomb'ing out due to an uninitialized vls. looks like it is possibly related to earlier changes.
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21:41.29CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33736 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: need to fix two more critical bugs before release. File->Open in MGED crashes and the 'gets' command locks it up saying the variable is not defined (or it crashes/freezes).
21:42.35CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33737 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: see the gets example in its manpage
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22:21.17CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33738 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/ (5 files): Start on editing commands.
22:46.44CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33739 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/ (Makefile.am oed.mged regression_resources.tcl): add oed testing
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23:04.11CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33740 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/ (Makefile.am i.mged keypoint.mged rm.mged): add i, rm and keypoint testing
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23:22.12poolioHowdy all
23:22.15pooliocongrats on the release :)
23:37.25louipcoh! I missed that
23:55.01brlcadpoolio: not worthy of congrats, escaped with a handful of critical bugs
23:55.05brlcadhad to pull it shortly after
23:56.43poolioah sorry to hear that, is it all worked out yet or is that the reason for the flurry of commits?
23:57.26brlcadnope, just normal flurry
23:57.39brlcadthough lot of flurry going into testing as there may be other isses
23:57.58brlcadhalf of the known ones are worked out, couple to go
23:58.31pooliogood luck! I've had a few bugs recently that took a few weeks to work out...
23:58.53brlcadyeah, these shouldn't be too complicated
23:59.02brlcadit's only been a couple days
23:59.13brlcadand three were just discovered today
23:59.25brlcadone already fixed
23:59.33brlcadtwo to go
23:59.57poolioWere there issues in trunk or were these introduced while tagging and such?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090211

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090211

00:00.10brlcadin trunk, just undetected
00:19.08*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
00:19.32louipcoh? so the currently hosted 7.14.2 is no good?
00:37.37brlcaddepends what you need it for
00:37.42brlcadmged has a variety of problems
00:38.06louipcah I think you mentioned mged -c works ok though?
00:38.21brlcadyep
00:38.28louipccool ;)
00:56.43Dr_Phreakensteindo you guys want build testing on 33740?
01:00.36mafmnight
01:07.04*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
01:14.07brlcadDr_Phreakenstein: 33740 is what?
01:15.33brlcadotherwise, sure .. build testing on varied platforms is always good .. especially if you can help fix problems and not just report them ;)
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01:51.24Dr_Phreakensteinwell, I do what I can...
01:52.59Dr_Phreakensteinthat is the subversion revision
01:54.19Dr_Phreakensteinbuild and test ok on gentoo, amd64, kernel 2.6.28, gcc 4.3.3
02:28.28brlcadcool
02:29.16Dr_Phreakensteinbenchmark is good, too
02:30.08Dr_Phreakensteintries to figure out how to cram more processors into box. wants to ace benchmark
03:04.44starseekerloves bugs that make his X11 session go wonky
03:05.55Dr_Phreakensteinthat is the advantage of having another machine that I can use to ssh in and restart X
03:06.04Dr_Phreakensteintoo bad that machine broke
03:06.31starseekerbrlcad: I lost input when running mged in gdb, but the error reported had to do with string comparison immediately after I selected a .g file in the dialog
03:08.01starseekerhappens with or without a db open
03:09.41Dr_Phreakensteinstarseeker: are you running recent X?
03:09.44Dr_Phreakensteinkde?
03:20.29Dr_PhreakensteinI have the same problem, I believe it is either new X input evdev/keyboard, and/or their interaction with kde. I did some upgrades of xorg, gcc, glibc, binutils, and kde 4.2 about the same time. for some reason, certain bugs in other programs cause this, but the same bugs caused no such instability before. Also, I seem to have lost keyboard for no apparent reason a few times, and regained it once. iow, may not be an mged thing
03:21.15Dr_Phreakensteinwhere was the string comparison happening?
03:28.22Dr_Phreakensteinstarseeker: I would like to help if I could, gotta restart (bad nvidia driver ...grr)
03:46.27starseekerDr_Phreakenstein:  No, no kde
03:46.34starseekerthis is very probably mged
03:47.40starseekeroh
03:48.32*** join/#brlcad Dr_Phreakenstein (n=phreak@216.151.24.198)
03:48.37starseekerDr_Phreakenstein:  No, no kde
03:48.46starseekerit's almost certainly an mged issue
03:49.52Dr_Phreakensteinperhaps so, but like I said, I started having the same problems right around upgrade time, I believe before kde upgrade, but after xorg, glibc/gcc
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04:00.41starseekergrrrrr
04:08.47starseekerman - how do I debug something like this?
04:09.38Dr_Phreakensteintell me how you got there, and I will try to help in whatever way i can
04:09.57brlcadDr_Phreakenstein: you'll have a hard time getting an "ace" benchmark ... :)
04:10.14starseekeropen mged 7.14.2 or latest svn, File->Open and select a file
04:10.16Dr_Phreakenstein:)
04:10.46brlcadI think current leader is somewhere on the order of 42 million VGRs (projected) iirc
04:10.59starseekerwow
04:11.15brlcador 12 million, there was a two and it was more than 10 :)
04:11.38brlcadand that was about 2 years ago
04:12.42Dr_Phreakensteinwell, i can dream, no?
04:12.54brlcadit is impressive that a deskside workstation SMP is about to eclipse the previous SMP leader (512 CPU Origin 2000)
04:13.22brlcadprobably in two years
04:14.13Dr_Phreakensteinwell, my machine is 2 years old, and I have 2.4 gHz proc, could put 3 gHz in
04:14.29Dr_Phreakensteinatt, price dictated 2.4
04:14.59Dr_Phreakensteinstarseeker: I crash before I can load anything
04:15.32Dr_Phreakensteinhowever, I can open it with a db (have not tried actually using said db... standby)
04:15.47brlcadDr_Phreakenstein: what's your vgr count?
04:20.04brlcadstarseeker: best bet is either putting a break in the main event loop in mged (in mged.c iirc) or resorting to old-skool print statements
04:20.26brlcadif you run mged in gdb via a remote session, you should be able to control it without killing X
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04:27.23Dr_Phreakensteinok, I can start with open db, then go to open another, get segfault. investigating. did not lose X, although (unrelated) transparency is missing. 3d window was flakey. gotta look at my end
04:27.57brlcadopen db via menu or via opendb command?
04:31.38Dr_Phreakensteinmenu
04:33.38Dr_Phreakensteinvgr 13884
04:33.46*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
04:37.21Dr_Phreakensteinconsidering only 4 cores, not too bad
04:37.31Dr_Phreakensteinas opposed to 512
04:37.42brlcadyep, not too shabby
04:39.15Dr_Phreakensteinnot braggin, just proud, considering i am poor
04:39.47Dr_Phreakensteinthat having been said, i am happy to donate cpu time and shell access to deserving persons
04:40.55brlcad13k vaxen is pretty substantial ;)
04:41.04Dr_Phreakensteintrue
04:41.27Dr_Phreakensteinoffer still stands
04:41.59brlcadi'm good for now, but thanks :)
04:42.31Dr_Phreakensteinwill advise of beowolf completion
04:42.33Dr_Phreakenstein;)
04:47.09yukonbobevening, cadheads
04:47.51Dr_Phreakensteinevening, yukonbob
04:53.13*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.138.246)
04:58.46Dr_Phreakensteinis restarting X. again
05:04.09*** join/#brlcad Dr_Phreakenstein (n=phreak@216.151.24.198)
05:04.54Dr_Phreakensteinlooks like i fixed opengl, trying mged again
05:07.31*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedyJR (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
05:09.19*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
05:18.43Dr_Phreakensteinok, starseeker,
05:19.07Dr_PhreakensteinI may have something more helpful
05:20.23Dr_Phreakensteini now have opengl working right, so when i get the above crash, my screen blanks (like going from fullscreen gl)
05:20.50Dr_Phreakensteini then return to konsole, which reports segfault
05:21.28Dr_Phreakensteinwhich tells me that crash is mged,
05:22.12Dr_Phreakensteinbut locking X is opengl, video driver, or other opengl apps fighting over it
05:22.32Dr_Phreakensteinlooking at crash now to find it
05:23.21*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.138.246) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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05:33.35Dr_Phreakensteind-lo, hello
05:35.20Dr_Phreakenstein4 starseeker: have you found the bug yet?
05:35.28louipcwhoazers
05:35.45Dr_Phreakensteinhey, just learning from <brlcad>
05:36.08Dr_Phreakensteinkinda grabs ya
05:37.52*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
05:38.40Dr_Phreakensteinif not, it seems to be line 249 of vls.c
05:41.21Dr_Phreakensteinwait, that is where it complained, however, the bad pointer seems to be bu_vls
05:41.43Dr_Phreakensteinsaid it was "Zero_Magic_Number"
05:42.23Dr_Phreakensteinwhatever that means
05:45.46Dr_Phreakensteinif you send me an email addr, or send mail to phreak@110mail.com, I will send strace outputs
05:53.46starseekerDr_Phreakenstein: just use pastebin:  http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/
05:54.34starseekera complaint at the vls level is almost always due to problems with string handling further up the chain
05:56.22brlcadDr_Phreakenstein: Zero_Magic_Number means it's a string that hasn't been initialized
05:56.41brlcadsounds exactly like the other bug I fixed earlier today too
05:56.54brlcadsomething missing a bu_vls_init()
05:57.23starseekerit seems to be before f_opendb... hmmm...
05:57.40starseekerlooks at db_Open in tcl land...
05:59.10brlcadif you have a trace, you'll at least have the place where the vls is being called
05:59.15brlcadit's usually obvious from there
05:59.24starseekerwants the trace :-)
05:59.28starseekerI can't generate one here
05:59.41brlcadstarseeker: if we do gsoc again, you interested in mentoring?
05:59.47starseekerbrlcad:  sure
05:59.53brlcadk
05:59.57brlcadall still tbd
06:00.01starseekernp
06:00.51brlcadlast years didn't get as much attention as it deserved so probably would only accept a couple students at most IFF even accepted
06:01.07starseekerright
06:01.08brlcadyou have a link to your panoramas?
06:01.31starseekerI don't think they're online - I can put one up on bz
06:01.33starseekerone sec
06:01.41starseeker(cat, shut up!)
06:02.11starseekerah, it is up
06:02.31brlcadyou had a couple iirc
06:02.35brlcadthe interior and the exterior
06:02.54starseekerinterior was a panorama
06:03.00starseekerexterior just a side shot
06:03.11brlcadstill stitched using panotools, though, right?
06:03.21starseekerno, that was a full shot
06:03.39brlcadah, okay
06:03.40starseekerI did some flat scans with panotools, but the side shots aren't practical
06:04.29starseekerwell, this is one but it's 25 megs:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/pano_1.jpg
06:05.05Dr_Phreakensteinworking on it...
06:05.16Dr_Phreakensteintoo big to select and put into paste bin
06:05.25Dr_Phreakensteincan i get an email?
06:05.45brlcadtoo big for paste bin?
06:05.54brlcadthe limit on that is like 25 MB
06:06.50brlcadstack trace shouldn't be more than a few dozen lines
06:08.52Dr_Phreakenstein3971 lines for one
06:08.58Dr_Phreakensteinotu of 3
06:09.04Dr_Phreakensteinout
06:10.28starseekerbrlcad:  here's one with managable size:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/tank_interior.jpg
06:11.52Ralithstarseeker: you call that manageable?
06:11.59Ralith:P
06:13.19Dr_Phreakensteinperhaps by comparison...
06:15.56starseekerRalith:  well, there's the 25 meg version...
06:16.10Ralithfine, fine
06:16.12starseekerDr_Phreakenstein: It looks like it was trying to read your .mgedrc
06:16.17Ralithhow's that model doing, anyway?
06:16.30starseekerhaven't had time to work on it yet
06:17.06Ralithaw.
06:17.33Dr_PhreakensteinI have .mgedrc
06:18.45starseekerbrlcad:  I'm going to paste a subset of this to pastebin
06:19.21Dr_Phreakensteinwant to see .mgedrc, too?
06:19.37starseekermaybe - let's see what brlcad makes of this
06:19.41Dr_Phreakenstein(only 507 lines)
06:20.08Dr_Phreakensteinhope that info dump helps at all
06:20.20starseekerhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m67aab374
06:20.42brlcadstarseeker: and to clarify .. you used the panotools and not hugin, yes?
06:20.47brlcadhugin being http://hugin.sourceforge.net/
06:20.53starseekerI used hugin
06:21.02starseekerthought it was built on panotools?
06:21.09brlcadah, okay -- glad I asked then
06:21.16starseekeris that bad?
06:21.37brlcadit's based on them and somewhat built on them, but a slightly different approach
06:21.41brlcadno, not bad
06:21.46brlcadeven better
06:22.46Dr_Phreakensteinemerges hugin
06:23.07starseekerDr_Phreakenstein: what's the last line in your mgedrc file?
06:25.36starseekerhmm - that trace contains the complete mgedrc file, then something goes bad on a write
06:26.00starseekerwhat the heck...
06:26.17starseekerMUST sleep - got meeting tomorrow
06:26.27starseekerwill sleep on it - thanks Dr_Phreakenstein
06:26.27Dr_Phreakensteinthe strace command cut off everything after 4096 bytes
06:26.45Dr_Phreakensteini can rerun with larger cutoff, if desired
06:27.21Dr_Phreakensteinlet me know if i can be of any further assistance. during day, send me mail, as i do not always read full backlog
06:27.28starseekernot sure if that will help - can you get it to run inside gdb and then do bt?
06:27.46starseekerk - thanks!
06:27.46Dr_Phreakensteinbt?
06:27.51starseekerbacktrace
06:28.06starseekerit's what I would have done had I not lost all X11 input
06:28.20Dr_Phreakensteinwill try, and email to you... do not wait up, but i should have by morning
06:28.28Dr_Phreakensteinsorry about that
06:28.31starseekernp
06:28.33starseekerthank you!
06:28.39starseekerzzzzz
06:28.43Dr_Phreakensteinlater
07:07.19*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@77-58-230-146.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:15.03CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33741 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob did this for 7.14.2, but it didn't make the notes. he filled out the nearly empty usage message and added a specific help message if you don't have a material file set up.
07:20.46CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33742 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
07:20.46CIA-40BRL-CAD: typo in 7.14.2 notes that didn't get caught. original message was (added a
07:20.46CIA-40BRL-CAD: rough cut at an evolutionary capability to g_diff. This attempts to guess if a
07:20.46CIA-40BRL-CAD: change to a region was a natural evolution or if the region was reworked in some
07:20.46CIA-40BRL-CAD: significant fashion. Requested by lbutler.)
07:24.59CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33743 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
07:25.00CIA-40BRL-CAD: another 7.14.2 fix that wasn't documented (blasted e-mail backlog), bob fixed
07:25.00CIA-40BRL-CAD: mged's font preferences panel/window that was preventing the menu from
07:25.00CIA-40BRL-CAD: displaying if there was a .mgedrc file present. init wasn't getting called
07:25.00CIA-40BRL-CAD: causing badness.
07:40.32CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33744 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: minor but user-visible, john fixed a bug in the oed command documentation to note that the path must be drawn in order to be edited. fixes sf bug 2533174 (problems with oed command) reported by lbutler on 2009-01-24.
07:41.05brlcadat least that one was consciously left out
07:41.16brlcadjust better to put it in hindsight to be consistent
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09:51.25brlquestionsHi everybody !
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11:49.53d-loMorning all!
12:11.03*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
12:21.57brlcadgrumble
12:22.14d-logrumble?  Not enough sleep?
12:23.06Axman6not enough love
12:23.09Axman6hugs brlcad
12:23.33brlcadalways too much and it's just that unproductive sinkholecesspool part of the day
12:24.00brlcadyawns and rubs and scratches
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12:45.57d-lobrlcad: so is it more server work today?
12:51.13brlcadactually, in meeting till after lunch
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12:52.17brlcadyesterday was a great day, though, particularly the afternoon progress
12:52.45d-loI think I overheard you say the Raid array was back up?
13:03.09*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.134.51)
13:43.06d-lobrlcad:  in libpkg, does one have to utilize the callback table for the recv() and 'pkg_type' for the send()?
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14:18.10brlcadd-lo: I'll have to take another look in depth later today but my recollection is vaguely that it does need the callback table to switch on events
14:18.39brlcadquite possible that it doesn't though, that's really vague and biased by use
14:19.33brlcadthat said, it's possible to mod libpkg as well so long as the underlying transport and parceling isn't changed (it's massively tested/robust)
14:19.53brlcadthere is one mod that the API does need that's been on the todo, to add callback parameters
14:20.14*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
14:20.15d-lobrlcad:  Been in the code for a while now, and it looks like its needed.  I am finding difficult to wire it in to an OO setting :/
14:20.45brlcadright now it relies on a global or static data containers
14:22.45brlcadbeing OO doesn't change anything, at least doesn't make for a limiting constraint
14:23.04brlcadany OO design is deconstructable to a fully procedural one
14:23.26brlcadnot that we want to, but just saying that shouldn't be the issue
14:24.25d-loheh, shouldn't" ...nice :P
14:25.11brlcadokay, I could say that isn't the issue, but trying not to be too blunt :)
14:26.38brlcadbeing "OO" isn't a problem, being async maybe or being multithreaded maybe or wanting multiplexing maybe or wanting non-global data containers maybe, etc.
14:27.27brlcadit's a very simple (yet *very* robust) parcel transport layer
14:28.06brlcadit's been hooked into OO before though, too, related to the java OO wrapping I sent you last year
14:30.44d-loHrm, I don't remember that java wrapping stuff.... only jbrlcad.
14:36.26d-loneeds an easychair @ work....
14:38.52brlcadyeah, it was one of the very first code chunks when you started on the project
14:39.11d-loHrm, can't find that email.  Where does it live elsewhere?
14:39.31brlcadi'd have to dig around for it again
14:40.11d-loNo worries.  Gonna work up a test.  I *think* libpkg should work without callbacks.
14:40.41brlcadit's simple enough because it leaves you with the raw socket
14:41.02brlcadso i'm sure you could make something callbackless
14:41.38brlcadit's just whether you can do that and still go through the bit of code in pkg that has the various state recoveries and error handling
14:41.52d-loWell, I am going to try to rework the network api since libpkg already has 2/3 similar header elements... no need for redundant redundancy.
14:42.14brlcadsimple is better
14:43.27d-loI am thinking that pkg_process() won't be a problem. It calls pkg_dispatch() which just so happens to preform a null check on the callback table and returns gracefully.
14:46.03d-loheh, damn.  pkg_dispatch() wipes the pkg_conn's buffer before returning... there goes that idea lol.
14:47.46d-lolack of experience question:  Fundimentally, is there any difference between feeding a pkg_switch a C routine and a function of an object instance?
14:48.59d-loapologizes for his horrid speling.
14:49.21starseekerspelng 's overrrrratd
14:49.32d-lowurd!
14:49.39brlcadthere are some differences but most can be overcome
14:49.47brlcada static member is identical
14:49.49starseekerafter reading slashdot for years, it takes a lot of bad spelling before I'll notice
14:51.44d-loso:  If I have a pkg_conn as a member of an object, and I feed object->pkg_conn a pkg_switch that maps a 'pkg_type' to a function of this object... shouldn't that work?
14:54.39d-loheh, that could have been worded a bit better. :)
15:00.56brlcadit depends on the access settings and function signature, but yeah, something like that is possible (the syntax is funky)
15:01.06brlcadruns
15:05.45brlcadlast note before I really run off, really should make the function static so that it's an opaque caller
15:06.04brlcadyou can make the object to be called on a data member used by the static callback
15:06.38brlcadwhich gets into the whole issue that the callback registration needs to also support a client data pointer (simple mod)
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15:24.05CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33745 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/ (9 files): Add arced, copymat, putmat, push, xpush, accept, reject, and tra
15:59.50Dr_Phreakensteingreetings, party people!
16:01.52Dr_Phreakensteinworking people?
16:02.58d-lo"work work work work... HELLO BOYS!" - Mel Brooks
16:04.58Dr_Phreakensteinwon't admit to seing that movie. so many times
16:09.21Dr_Phreakensteind-lo: not to rehash, for backing up on CF, i meant only system and config files, as in only things handled by package installer. full drive backup, another story
16:09.39Dr_Phreakensteinstill owe you those part numbers, have not forgotten
16:09.55d-loDr_Phreakenstein: yeah, got your email. Its understood now ;)
16:10.04Dr_Phreakensteincool
16:10.50Dr_Phreakensteinyeah, gentoo is amazing, but i cannot claim things like that. will leave such claims for vista
16:13.55d-loread an article somewhere that MS is pushing windows 7 *really* hard to get it out ASAP.  Looks like they are in phear of MS Windows ME - round 2.  lol  Consumer reports are starting to slam Vista pretty hard :) tee hee.
16:14.35Dr_Phreakensteinahhh.... warms the heart to hear stuff like that...
16:15.08Dr_Phreakenstein4  <starseeker>: need anything before I split for class?
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16:31.48Dr_Phreakensteinoff to fun times!
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19:15.23d-lohttp://xkcd.com/528/  LOL
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20:38.01Dr_Phreakensteinnice
20:43.37starseekerauugh - now 7.14.3 works on my mac
20:44.10starseekersort of - it opens the file without hanging but does not load .mgedrc
20:47.58Dr_Phreakensteinon lunch break now, will hop on tonight to try and help
20:52.41starseekeroh, lovely - now it just crashes
20:52.48starseekermust not have installed lastest
21:26.51*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14D38F.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:26.43*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
22:30.53starseekertracks instant mged start crash - workin gthrouh to mged.c:2464
22:32.59brlcadstarseeker: is it a bu_bomb?
22:33.14brlcador coredump/segfault?
22:33.29starseekerbu_bomb
22:33.45brlcadvls zero or bad magic?
22:34.05starseekerZero_magic_number
22:34.30starseekertrying to figure out why - str contains an mgedrc reference at that point
22:35.30brlcadif you break on 2464 *before* calling Tcl_EvalFile, what is str
22:36.37starseeker<PROTECTED>
22:36.37starseeker<PROTECTED>
22:36.37starseeker<PROTECTED>
22:36.37starseeker<PROTECTED>
22:36.37starseeker<PROTECTED>
22:36.52starseekerlooks like a valid vls
22:37.11brlcadyep
22:37.17brlcadso that vls is actually fine
22:37.37brlcadit's the .mgedrc command processing
22:39.06starseekerfears following it down those roads
22:39.06starseekerbut does anyway...
22:39.06brlcad:)
22:39.06brlcadyeah, you have to
22:39.12starseekerhi ho, hi ho, it's off to tclIOUtil we go...
22:41.24starseekerok, hello Tcl_FSEvalFileEx...
22:41.47brlcadit's going to end up being a Tcl_EvalEx
22:41.57brlcadrunning the whole file as one command
22:42.05starseekerah, thanks
22:45.19brlcadb tclBasic.c:4294
22:45.36brlcadrun with that, should then break for every commmand in the .mgedrc
22:45.44brlcadset that after you get to the 2464 breakpoint
22:45.59starseekerTcl_ParseCommand (interp=0x780b200, start=0x74ee1ec "\n", '#' <repeats 22 times>, " Query Ray Settings ", '#' <repeats 22 times>, "\n# Set the basename of the fake solids generated by nirt\nqray basename query_ray\n\n# Specifies the kind of output generated by nirt.\n# g"..., numBytes=2902, nested=0, parsePtr=0x74f5024) at /Users/cyapp/brlcad/src/other/tcl/unix/../generic/tclParse.c:271
22:46.05starseeker271         if ((start == NULL) && (numBytes != 0)) {
22:46.06starseekerthat's the poison
22:46.51brlcado.O
22:47.14starseekerlast parse command before death
22:48.06brlcaddoesn't see anything there
22:48.20brlcadand that doesn't make sense too.. that's not in my .mgedrc at least
22:48.48starseekercan wipe/redo my .mgedrc - maybe the old one is killing it
22:48.49starseekerone sec
22:49.00brlcadkeep it
22:49.03brlcadjust move it
22:49.06starseekerk
22:49.16brlcadthere's no reason an old mgedrc should cause a crash
22:49.58brlcadif we mess up and it does, we should fix the mess up; not give "delete your .mgedrc" as a 'fix' :)
22:50.13starseekeraw ;-)
22:51.02brlcadah, I see the Query Ray Settings section in mgedrc.tcl -- mine is just apparently older
22:51.30brlcadah, I wonder if that's it
22:51.44brlcadis "qray" a valid command now that libged is hooked in
22:51.53starseekerhrm
22:51.57starseekergood question
22:53.13brlcador if one of the args to qray changed when you were working on nirt
22:53.29brlcadas unlikely as that seems .. should have come up much earlier if that was the case
22:53.46starseekerstill crashes without an mgedrc
22:54.35brlcadnothing new was added to .mgedrc output recently, so that shouldn't be it
22:54.47starseekercrashing in a different  place without mgedrc
22:54.49starseekerhang on...
22:55.56starseekernow it's mged.c:709
22:56.21starseekerhmm - valid vls, contains "gui"
22:58.50brlcad:)
22:58.55brlcadthat's kinda useless :)
22:59.04brlcadgui is the command that kicks off the entire gui
22:59.16starseekerI'm digging deeper
22:59.21brlcadbasically means "something went wrong" ;)
23:02.38starseekerBreakpoint 2, Tcl_ParseCommand (interp=0x780b200, start=0x81e3504 "press left}\n", numBytes=10, nested=0, parsePtr=0x74f59b0) at /Users/cyapp/brlcad/src/other/tcl/unix/../generic/tclParse.c:271
23:02.42starseeker271         if ((start == NULL) && (numBytes != 0)) {
23:02.45starseeker(gdb)
23:02.50starseekercontinuing after that triggers it
23:03.33CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33746 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/keep.c: fix another cosmetic issue lee found today, if you run keep on a file that already exists, it wasn't printing the file name due to amissing vararg
23:04.56starseekerhmm - looks like ged_autoview in one of these logs...
23:06.18starseekerah HAH
23:07.15starseekerthat's it
23:07.50starseekerGED_CHECK_DATABASE_OPEN is calling BU_CK_VLS, which is getting passed an empty vls
23:08.05starseekerthe gedp pointer isn't null, but its contents are
23:08.29starseekeror rather - the vls structures in it are unitialized
23:09.02starseekerchecks chgview
23:13.19brlcadaha, right
23:13.29starseekerI think it's that blasted gedp from main
23:13.37brlcadexactly why I didn't think my hack fix was sufficient
23:13.38starseekersize_reset doesn't take any params
23:13.56starseekerand bv_reset doesn't take a ged struct
23:14.01starseekerit's gotta be the main one
23:14.53brlcadhm, the logic to GED_CHECK_DATABASE_OPEN is rather weak
23:15.04brlcadif it's not a null gedp, it tries to bu_vls_trunc..
23:15.13brlcadactually, hrm
23:15.18starseekerit looks like the GED_INIT function needs to accept NULL and still initialize the vls stuff
23:15.26brlcadyep
23:15.31brlcadexactly what I was thinking
23:15.37starseekerhunts for GED_INIT
23:16.16brlcadI left the GED_INIT in ged_dbopen(), but it also/still has to be on BU_GETSTRUCT
23:16.22brlcadhas to be in both places
23:16.39brlcadthough now there may be a memory leak if the gedp isn't wiped out
23:17.39starseekerheh - there's a ged_init_qray
23:17.46brlcadI think that may belong better in the wrapper instead of during init
23:17.48starseekerwonders if that's why the mgedrc was crapping out
23:17.58brlcadprobably
23:18.13starseekerBINGO
23:18.19brlcadI bet a lot of commands would fail because of the non-null gedp and null dbip
23:18.24starseekerged_init is just returning if gedp is NULL
23:18.52brlcadhrm?  that sounds right
23:19.02brlcadnothing to init if you don't have a gedp
23:19.14starseekermaybe, but that's why the vls structures are in an invalid state
23:19.26brlcadit's never initialized
23:19.28starseeker"Zero_Magic"
23:19.39brlcadlook for the getstruct
23:19.56brlcadthe one I added yesterday, needs a GED_INIT() immediately after
23:20.02brlcadjust with a null wdbp
23:21.04starseekerin setup.c?
23:21.44brlcadsounds about right
23:23.09starseekerwell, that's progress - now it says "A database is not open! MGED unable to initialize gui, reverting to classic mode."
23:24.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33747 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/setup.c: Initialize gedp so we don't have invalid vls structures when checks are run.
23:24.34starseekerer, sorry Sean, should have credited you with the suggestion there
23:25.18*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-158.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
23:25.50starseekernow that's weird - it cant initialize, offers classic, and then pops up the full GUI anyway
23:28.36starseekererm - it says No symbol "TCL_OK" in current context.
23:28.46starseekerwell no wonder status doesn't equal it
23:28.59starseekerbrlcad:  where do we get TCL_OK from?
23:37.34starseekeroh, OK - tcl.h, and it's 0
23:38.34starseekerhmm - we're getting 1 as a return from the 709 mged Tcl_Eval
23:42.07*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
23:45.50brlcadstarseeker: I don't need to be credited for any and every suggestion
23:45.54brlcadespecially for one-liners :)
23:46.21starseekerwell, going from crashing to non-crashing on the startup of the main gui is nice
23:46.33starseekernow if I can just figure out why its returning status 1...
23:47.14brlcadbecause of the "A database is not open!" message
23:47.20brlcadfrom there, the rest just cascades
23:47.45starseekeris that a consequence of ged wanting a database then?
23:54.45starseekerlooks for where the messages are called and feels a sinking feeling
23:58.42starseekerI'm guessing the fix is to have the various commands that can run without an open database check for an open database only when the wdbp pointer is non-NULL?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090212

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090212

00:10.18starseekermessage to self - per discussion with Sean, push GED checks for database state in commands down to where the command actually needs to know - "correct" way to avoid status picking up errors from the ged commands run in startup
00:20.24*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@mail.fbcelkhart.org)
00:27.59brlcadif we separate out help from the main work command, then the checks could conceivably remain at the top -- we'll end up with something like rt_functab that the wrapper would use to invoke a command
00:28.13brlcadfor now, though, I think the next step is to just do the push-down
00:33.43*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.4.20)
00:34.37brlcadhowdy andrecastelo !
00:34.40brlcadltns
00:34.59andrecastelohowdy brlcad :D
00:36.01andrecastelohow's everything???
00:36.09brlcadbusy as all frack
00:36.23brlcadtoo many irons in the fire I suppose
00:36.32brlcadotherwise, going great
00:36.54brlcadhas to run off for a bit, ttyl
00:38.11andrecastelo:D
01:09.54CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03louipc * r33748 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/archlinux/PKGBUILD: Add libxslt as makedepends, and tkhtml3 as optdepends in Arch PKGBUILD.
01:16.43*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
01:59.10``Erik_heh, I keep seeing more and more about ted lately O.o
02:43.28*** join/#brlcad schwinn434 (n=schwinn4@cpe-75-81-198-192.we.res.rr.com)
03:03.55*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-158.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
03:42.16*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096600726.dsl.bell.ca)
03:50.27starseeker``Erik:  the old rich text editor?
03:50.39starseekerhasn't heard of it in years...
03:51.30starseekerhey, cool - it does still exist:  http://www.nllgg.nl/Ted/
03:51.46Dr_Phreakensteinsilly antiques ;)
03:51.54starseekerindeed
03:52.10Dr_Phreakensteinactually, ted was not a very clever name...
03:52.35Dr_Phreakensteini have known of several, unrelated text editors named ted
03:52.59louipcoh sweet!
03:53.07louipcinstalls ted
03:53.12Dr_Phreakensteini should start a collection
03:53.26starseekerused it back in the 386 days...
03:53.36starseekerAbiword was too much for it, iirc
03:54.05Dr_PhreakensteinAbiword!
03:54.23louipcAbiword is as far as I want to go.
03:54.50Dr_Phreakensteinmy current favs are nano, the one built into mc, and kate
03:55.07starseekergrows ever fonder of vim
03:55.31Dr_Phreakensteini do not mean to start debate...
03:55.45louipcvim++
03:55.46starseekernah, nowadays they're all pretty good
03:55.48Dr_Phreakensteineditors are really a matter of habit and preference
03:56.04starseekeryou just have to spend a lot of time to take advantage of the powerful ones
03:56.10louipcthey should tweak evim so it's usable via console
03:56.13starseekerstill uses nedit for quick and dirty
03:56.20louipcthen there would be no reason for nano whatsoever
03:56.56Dr_Phreakensteini remember my 1st experience w/ vi. got stuck in slackware 96 after i wiped my dos partition. i had no idea what to do, never heard of a man page, nothing
03:57.14Dr_Phreakensteini was hurting
03:57.53louipcI had a book so it wasn't so bad
03:58.02Dr_Phreakensteingiven that trauma, i think that you can understand my reluctance to use vi and all derivitaves, even if i can acknowledge their technical greatness
03:58.18starseekersure - a lot of people associate it with emergency situations
03:58.32Dr_Phreakensteinyeah, i did not know that they wrote books for those sorts of things
03:58.40Dr_Phreakensteinya might call it baptism by fire
03:58.49louipchehe
03:58.53Dr_Phreakenstein:)
03:59.22louipcwell when I first dived into linux I did hear that it was a bit challenging, so I went out and got some docs
03:59.22Dr_Phreakensteinalso, i was using the worst possible hardware
04:00.02Dr_Phreakensteini had never heard of it... i complained that windows crashed and dos was limiting (wanted better shell)
04:00.27Dr_Phreakensteinso my cousin sent me a disk, and it really forced me to learn a lot
04:00.31Dr_Phreakensteinglad for it now
04:00.33louipcnice
04:00.51Dr_Phreakensteinoh, no net access, either
04:01.02Dr_Phreakensteinthat might have helped
04:02.07Dr_Phreakensteini still prefer nano due to it's ease of integration in very tiny systems (very tiny still means qwerty kbd or remote shell of some kind)
04:02.20louipcgood luck getting that to work way back then :P
04:02.40Dr_Phreakensteingetting what to work?
04:02.53louipcinternet?
04:03.07louipcdialup - ppp
04:03.07Dr_Phreakensteinin 96? my only restriction was parental
04:03.29Dr_Phreakensteini had a ... 14,400 baud modem
04:03.43Dr_Phreakensteinthat's *over* 14K!
04:03.45louipcsweet
04:04.05Dr_Phreakensteini know, i could not even whistle that fast!
04:04.20Dr_Phreakensteinahem...
04:04.38Dr_Phreakensteinchai, the russian way has a *lot* of caffeine in it
04:05.00louipcyeah I actually didn't -get- vi, and I didn't like it
04:05.08louipcso I used emacs for awhile :D
04:05.58Dr_Phreakensteinnow there is the kirby-vacuum, universal motor assembly of software
04:06.33Dr_Phreakensteinit has long since ceased to be primarily an editor
04:06.50Dr_Phreakensteinnow more like a complete desktop environment
04:07.01Dr_Phreakensteinthat i still do not use
04:07.10louipchaha
04:08.19louipcyou know nano isn't completely user friendly
04:08.45louipcI had one user ask "I'm stuck. What does ^X mean?"
04:09.36Dr_Phreakensteinwell, what can you do
04:09.56Dr_Phreakensteinpebkac
04:10.11Dr_Phreakensteinhad they figured out the cupholder yet?
04:10.23louipcwell nowhere does it say ^ = ctrl
04:10.41louipc:D
04:10.52Dr_Phreakensteinno, i guess i know that from some stumbling i did back in the day...
04:10.58louipcthey figured out ssh!
04:11.04Dr_Phreakensteinbut it seems like a good guess
04:11.07Dr_Phreakensteinthat or alt
04:11.15louipcor esc
04:11.25louipcor shift-6
04:11.32Dr_Phreakensteinok, so that leaves 3 combinations to try
04:11.42Dr_Phreakensteinall of which is faster than asking
04:14.00Dr_Phreakensteinhttp://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
04:14.14Dr_Phreakensteinmake 'em read that
04:14.32Dr_Phreakensteinand everything else by him and dj bernstein
04:14.53Dr_Phreakensteinthen, have them read theregister.co.uk/odds/bofh
04:15.20Dr_Phreakensteinthat will first bring them down to size, then let them know what you are capable of
04:29.22schwinn434where can I read about brlcad, and downloaded it, if possible
04:29.39Axman6brlcad.org i think
04:30.36schwinn434thx Axman6
04:31.27schwinn434is there a 3 dimensional cad program similar to AutoCad which is opensource
04:33.42``Erikstriped irregular bucket, pheer... was the gospel back when I was a sysadmin
04:34.23``Erikthere're some things esr has written that can safely be ignored, though... :D
04:35.19Dr_Phreakensteinyes
04:35.28Dr_Phreakensteinvery safely
04:36.00Dr_Phreakensteinschwinn434: qcad is 2d and OS...
04:36.21Dr_Phreakensteinit is available as 3d, but i believe at a $price
04:36.40``Erikand screw nano, http://www.geocities.com/kensanata/ed.html
04:38.20louipc``Erik++
04:41.17Dr_Phreakensteinthat was one of the funniest things i have read this year!
04:41.31schwinn434is qcad opensource?
04:41.54Dr_Phreakensteini believe so
04:42.02schwinn434thx Dr_Phreakenstein
04:43.29louipchaha it's crippleware
04:43.49louipcThe demo version terminates after 10 minutes. # It can be restarted and used for 100 hours in total.
04:43.55louipcopensource crippleware though
04:43.59Dr_Phreakensteincommunity is released under GPL
04:44.02louipcodd
04:44.07Dr_Phreakensteinwhat?
04:44.10Dr_Phreakensteinweird
04:44.12louipchttp://www.qcad.org/qcad_downloads.html
04:44.28Dr_Phreakensteini compile it and use it often
04:44.46Dr_Phreakensteindoes not do 3d, which brings me here
04:45.29Dr_Phreakensteinif you compile it, i have found no time restriction
04:46.12``Erikhrm, looks like there're 3 products, only 'professional demo' has the time restriction, community is the only gpl one
04:46.21Dr_Phreakensteincorrect
04:46.36schwinn434thx guys
04:47.01Dr_Phreakensteinbut really, schwinn434, brlcad can import and export autocad files
04:47.11Dr_Phreakensteinyou should use that instead
04:47.16``Erikerm, a subset of
04:47.25louipcI guess the time restraints is a config option in their build
04:47.27Dr_Phreakensteinshhhh...
04:47.33louipcpossibly
04:47.40``Eriklike we ignore all the extra drafting crap, we do the triangles for solid geometry
04:47.44Dr_Phreakensteinthat's not a very good sales pitch, Erik
04:48.24louipcNASA used BRL-CAD to send people to the moon.
04:48.25``Erikheh, no, I'm not a sales person :D if it's just the solid stuff needed out of the dxf, we're right there for it... but if that meta-info is required, *shrug* we don't do that
04:48.34louipcfact
04:48.44Dr_Phreakensteinthe correct answer is "Yes, it is not only fully compatible, but better in every way, and if you disagree, we will refund your purchase price in full"
04:49.09schwinn434didn't realize brlcad was so powerful
04:49.12brlcad``Erik: it does import the 2D geometric entities now too (as sketches)
04:49.18``Erikoh, neat
04:49.21brlcadg-dxf is the shizzle
04:49.31brlcader, dxf-g :)
04:49.31``Erikdoes it attempt to export the sketches, too
04:49.33``Erik?
04:49.38brlcadmm, doubt it
04:49.45louipchmm
04:49.53``ErikI looked through the source not TOO long ago and didn't see sketch shtuff :/
04:49.53brlcadbut maybe
04:49.54Dr_Phreakensteinsee, there ya go
04:49.58louipcschwinn434: I was joking :D
04:50.10louipcschwinn434: I don't know that for a fact
04:50.32brlcadit still doesn't import the non-geometric entities I believe and various attributes that have only to do with annotation
04:50.46Dr_Phreakensteinbegins working on sales literature and #ower#oint
04:50.55brlcadlike an entity with a "stipple" attribute .. yeah, that's ignored and probably will stay that way
04:51.09Dr_Phreakensteinque es "stipple"
04:51.18brlcad- - - - - -
04:51.22louipchash marks?
04:51.36``ErikI d'no, things like that could just be saved as named object pairs in the attribute tags
04:51.43brlcadmeans draw the wireframe and/or edges or whatever it's associated with using dashed lines instead of a solid line
04:51.46louipcoh hidden lines/centre lines, etc
04:51.54``Erikwouldn't MEAN anything, but slightly less data lost
04:52.00Dr_Phreakensteinahhh... drafting symbol stuff
04:52.40Dr_Phreakensteinthat is rendered irrelevant by the whole idea of CSG
04:52.50Dr_Phreakensteinit only makes for pretty prints...
04:53.25brlcadit's irrelevant in most solid modeling systems
04:53.33brlcadvery much a drafting feature
04:53.37louipc*hatching
04:53.52Dr_Phreakensteinwhich brings me to my idea of a print making utility, or something, to turn geometry nice draft
04:54.07louipcyou need those marks if you're going to take a draft into the shop for sure
04:54.10``Erikkinda sorta like rtedge does?
04:54.10Dr_Phreakensteingeometry into nice draft
04:54.14Dr_Phreakensteinyes
04:54.20brlcadenjoys some awesome home-cooked surf n' turf
04:54.22Dr_Phreakensteinrtedge...
04:54.30Dr_Phreakensteinsorta
04:54.49louipcsounds good
04:55.23Dr_Phreakensteinwould add dimmensions, 4 views, notes, specs, and
04:55.32Dr_PhreakensteinGD&T
04:55.35louipcbill of materials
04:55.43Dr_Phreakensteinperhaps
04:55.51louipcrevisions
04:55.54Dr_Phreakensteinthat is too easy to do in favorite editor
04:55.57Dr_Phreakensteinyes
04:56.05Dr_Phreakensteinrevisions is a good one
04:56.07``Erik4view is easy, dimensions could be glued on post-rendering, no?
04:56.22Dr_Phreakensteini did it in openoffice
04:56.29``Erikdoesn't know what the behavior of sketch is in rtege O.o
04:56.36louipcyou need bill of materials on the dwg, especially if it's an assembly
04:56.49Dr_Phreakensteinok, i buy that
04:57.22louipcand dimensioning is a bit of an art. I couldn't trust a computer to always make the right decisions
04:57.44``Erikfor 'bill of materials', what exactly is the pertinent information?
04:57.53Dr_Phreakensteinno, should be manually editable, especially w/ tolerances
04:57.59louipcyea
04:58.20Dr_Phreakensteinthat is something that would deserve a fair bit of thought
04:58.22louipc``Erik: tells you what the different parts are on the drawing
04:58.46``Erikyes, but just a list of part numbers? or material and mass? or? :)
04:59.05Dr_Phreakensteinsources, prices, quantity
04:59.06louipcif it's a screw it will tell you what it's specs are, if it's a custom part it will give the part/dwg number
04:59.25Dr_Phreakensteinperhaps mult. part numbers
04:59.35Dr_Phreakensteinassy/sub-assy numbers
04:59.56``Eriksoo, encode it into the geometries path, then a quick little scripts to massage the output of mged -c commands for a usable output? :)
05:00.09Dr_Phreakensteinas in part numbers for vendor and client
05:00.20Dr_Phreakensteingroups of parts for assy
05:00.41Dr_Phreakensteincould work
05:00.51Dr_Phreakensteinbye, schwinn
05:01.36louipcthe most important part is always first ;)
05:02.35Dr_Phreakenstein... also, notes about the construction, specs, or assembly of different parts, and a misc notes field to cover everything else
05:02.43Dr_Phreakensteinhere ya go...
05:02.54Dr_Phreakensteinnotes per part, and per drawing
05:03.06Dr_Phreakensteinthat is the easiest way to make it more generic
05:03.53``Erikbeen 20 years since I've done drafting, and it was just an intro course, so nothing detailed :D I know the general format for electronics, but that sounds a bit differnet
05:04.27Dr_Phreakensteinthe new thing is geometric dimensioning and tolerancing
05:04.31louipcyou can achieve the order by naming I guess
05:04.54Dr_Phreakensteinjust a set of symbols and a system for doing dimensions
05:05.00louipc001.Main_Housing, 002.Drive_Shaft, 003.Bearing
05:05.04``Erikor attribute abuse
05:05.11Dr_Phreakenstein:)
05:05.14Dr_Phreakensteintrue
05:06.05Dr_Phreakensteini would not mind if brlcad could do electronic stuff, too
05:06.17Dr_Phreakensteinsounds like a lot of work
05:06.36``Eriktalking to geda would probably be a better first stab O.o
05:07.16Dr_Phreakensteinbut it would be handy to have it figure out size/shape of populated board, to see if it would fit housing
05:07.22Dr_Phreakensteini like kicad
05:07.59Dr_Phreakensteingeda is decent, i have less experience with
05:08.40Dr_Phreakensteinactually, what i want, is a hammer that also saws, polishes, grinds, and drives threaded fasteners
05:08.41Dr_Phreakenstein;)
05:09.02``ErikI think they call those shops
05:09.10Dr_Phreakensteinif it had a soldering attachment, so much the better
05:09.14Dr_Phreakensteinok, you win
05:09.18louipcoh sweet. 3d view
05:09.30Dr_Phreakensteinfrom a hammer?
05:10.25louipckicad
05:10.46Dr_Phreakensteinwhat i meant was that it would be cool to have an "everything cad" system, but i understand why that would not always work
05:10.57Dr_Phreakensteinupgrades kicad to latest
05:19.00Dr_Phreakensteinhmmm... i will have to talk to those guys, see if they can export 3d data to a file brlcad can read
05:19.07Dr_Phreakensteinthat would be nice!
05:20.12brlcadtoo much manpower and lack of development focus to attempt to support too many domains at once, there's more than enough work to just support one or two domains
05:21.02Dr_Phreakensteini understand that, i meant make kicad export to .g
05:21.04brlcadsolid modeling is top-priority followed closely behind by either drafting or mcad needs (or the features that overlap both domains)
05:21.22brlcadthat would be pretty easy
05:21.28Dr_Phreakensteinexactly
05:21.58Dr_Phreakensteinhey, you guys have any debugging for me today?
05:22.23Dr_Phreakensteini am not much of a programmer, but i can do that
05:22.48Dr_Phreakenstein"I can strace like nobody's business!"
05:23.26brlcadI think the main problems were sorted out earlier today
05:23.31Dr_Phreakensteinstill learning to work w/ you guys
05:23.32Dr_Phreakensteink
05:23.53Dr_Phreakensteinsorry to say, i should have pointed some stuff out i found in my trace
05:23.54brlcadnow just have a lot of grunt-work moving and repairs to take care of
05:24.42Dr_Phreakensteinlooks like i could have saved some hours,  not sure. i saw stuff last night that you guys discussed this morning
05:30.57brlcadDr_Phreakenstein: actually your lead last night helped
05:31.08brlcadhelped a lot, thanks
05:32.54Dr_Phreakensteinglad to contrib...
05:33.22Dr_Phreakensteindon't be afraid to throw problems at me...
05:33.43Dr_Phreakensteinthis way we can both learn what i can do, and i can learn at all
05:34.03Dr_Phreakensteineg this morning was my first experience w/ gdb
05:34.28louipcdo you do any programming?
05:34.47brlcadif you have an app with debugging symbols, gdb is actually pretty easy to learn
05:34.51brlcadat least most of the basics
05:34.54Dr_Phreakensteinnot yet, but i can fumble through bash and python
05:35.08Dr_Phreakensteinso i saw
05:35.13louipcaww, same here :/
05:35.18Dr_Phreakensteinalways thought it would be way harder
05:35.32louipcso that's why you don't use vi or emacs yet ;)
05:35.37Dr_Phreakenstein:)
05:35.53Dr_Phreakensteinperhaps
05:36.28Dr_Phreakensteinalthough, in my defense, my main use of kde is that it gives me konsole, a nice way to have more terminals
05:36.44Dr_Phreakensteinterminals with a scrollbar
05:37.13Dr_Phreakensteinand unlimited scrollback buffer
05:37.20Dr_Phreakensteinwith search
05:37.46louipchmm yeah sometimes I'd like more scrollback
05:37.55louipcbut it's usually because I wasn't paying attention
05:38.30Dr_Phreakensteinhere is a tip to help many things...
05:39.07Dr_Phreakenstein# hey, let's get a decent terminal speed now.
05:39.09Dr_Phreakensteinif tty|grep -v tty > /dev/null ; then
05:39.10Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
05:39.12Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
05:39.13Dr_Phreakenstein<PROTECTED>
05:39.15Dr_Phreakensteinfi
05:39.19Dr_Phreakensteinthat is in my ~/.bashrc
05:39.55Dr_Phreakensteinbelieve it ornot, that speeds up compiles
05:40.11louipchmmm
05:41.00Dr_Phreakensteinbut it will often break plain console, thus else
05:41.40Dr_Phreakensteintry #time cat hugefile.txt  before and after
05:42.21Dr_Phreakensteini do not remember how i discovered that
05:42.25louipccan my PIII handle 4000000?
05:42.29Dr_Phreakensteinyes
05:42.33louipcsweet
05:42.45Dr_Phreakensteini looked in linux kernel source, and that is mak
05:42.46Dr_Phreakensteinmax
05:42.54louipccool
05:43.07Dr_Phreakensteinused it on my PIII toughbook
05:43.11louipcpro tip. thx
05:43.30Dr_Phreakensteinnp, you prob will not find that online
05:44.39Dr_Phreakensteinalso, i use make with "-j 17 -iks --no-print-directory"
05:45.05Dr_Phreakensteini means ignore errors, k means keep going. those are dangerous, but others add speed
05:45.46Dr_Phreakensteinevery write to stdout blocks, so it cannot compile any faster than that...
05:45.57Dr_Phreakensteinso i tell it not to send as much output
05:46.20louipctrue
05:47.12Dr_Phreakensteinhowever, i do break a lot of stuff, so take my uber-tweaking tips w/ NaCl
05:47.14louipcI guess I really need to work on getting all the 3rd party libraries installed separately from brl-cad
05:47.24Dr_Phreakensteinstty is well tested on many boxes, though
05:47.28louipcif I don't have to compile them it will dramatically help
05:47.37Dr_Phreakensteintrue
05:47.41Dr_Phreakensteinwhat distro?
05:47.46louipcarch
05:48.05Dr_Phreakensteingentoo derivitave, iirc
05:48.11Dr_Phreakenstein?
05:48.20louipcLFS derivative if anything
05:48.27louipcinspired by CRUX
05:48.32Dr_Phreakensteinahhh
05:48.56Dr_Phreakensteinsorry, so many, i get mixed
05:49.00louipcbinary packages, rolling release
05:49.17Dr_Phreakensteincool
05:49.44Dr_Phreakensteini will say, gentoo has given me *much* compiling and resolution experience
05:49.55Dr_Phreakensteintoo much?
05:50.10louipcnow that I don't have to compile everything I can actually do some hacking :D
05:50.20louipcyeah I used to use gentoo
05:50.27Dr_Phreakensteinslaps on gentoo bumper sticker that reads "I'd rather be compiling"
05:51.01Dr_Phreakensteincan't argue there
06:57.09yukonbobDr_Phreakenstein: how many CPU cores do you have at your disposal?
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06:58.54Dr_Phreakenstein4
06:59.20yukonbobwhy do you "-j 17" for your make, then?
06:59.24Dr_Phreakenstein2proc, dual core, 2.4gHz
06:59.32yukonbobI'd think 5 is about the max you'd require...
06:59.40yukonbob4 on,  1 on stand-by
06:59.43Dr_Phreakensteinj= core *4 + 1
07:00.00Dr_Phreakensteinalso have 8 gigs ram
07:00.31yukonbobbut that "parallelism" isn't really parallel if they're just being swapped around the cores ;)
07:00.42yukonbob...and that's not free, either.
07:01.05Dr_Phreakensteini forget, but i researched it at one point, and that is what i arrived at
07:01.25Dr_Phreakensteinsomehow, it gave the best performance in test case
07:02.01Dr_Phreakensteinahhh, that may have been when i had a slower hd
07:02.29Dr_Phreakensteineven now, i am mostly io-restricted
07:02.46yukonbobnods
07:03.17Dr_Phreakensteini did not believe it, either, thought it was insane, but it seems to work
07:03.29Dr_Phreakensteinand on gentoo, i do a little compiling ;)
07:07.33Dr_Phreakensteinalso, -j 17 is no good w/out my stty optimizations
07:16.09RalithI'd think that -j 17 is no good without four quadcores, too.
07:16.46Raliththe rule I've always hear is ncpu+1
07:16.51Ralithheard*
07:17.49Dr_Phreakensteinfair enough, especially for a sys that is better balanced than mine
07:18.28Dr_Phreakensteindepends on cache and scheduler, too, but that is getting pretty deep, and for specific cases
07:18.55RalithI suppose ultimately you're best off just trial-and-erroring your way up until performance starts to drop again
07:19.11Dr_Phreakensteinyeah, that is how i got where i am
07:19.30Dr_Phreakensteinproblem is, i only tested it for certain things
07:20.00Dr_Phreakensteinmainly just to emerge a short list of programs
07:20.34Dr_Phreakensteinwonder how it would be affected by ccache
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10:06.46d-lolikes ubuntu :)
10:22.37Dr_Phreakensteinnot a bad choice
10:22.44Dr_Phreakensteinyou are up early
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11:46.13d-lonot really.  Thats my normal 'up' time.
11:46.51d-loWake @0400-0415.  On the road to work by 0500.  Arrive @ work 0600-0615.
11:49.13d-loI was very impressed by Ubuntu.  I have basically done a 'out of box test' of FC10 vs ubuntu.
11:50.16d-loand Ubuntu wins hands down.  I had to install only 2 drivers not included with the base install to make myt Dell 1505 lappy work at 100%... although I haven't tested the graphics driver yet.
12:01.21Dr_Phreakensteinnice
12:01.49d-logonna put on wine this evening and fire up Civ4 and a few others ;)
12:01.58Dr_Phreakenstein:)
12:02.23Dr_Phreakensteini have tetris and minehunt on my HP calculator...
12:02.35Dr_Phreakensteinthat is about as much gaming as i do
12:03.06Dr_Phreakensteinmakes my professor seem less verbose
12:03.08d-lotetris rules.
12:03.25d-lowhat class?
12:08.53Dr_Phreakensteinwell, i only have 3 instructors, as it is a small dept
12:09.09Dr_Phreakensteinthat one teaches CNC mill, and inspection II
12:09.57d-lokewl.
12:10.10_sushi_what is the inspection about
12:10.11d-lodid you get all that gear Hauled successfully?
12:10.13Dr_Phreakensteinthey are all really smart, but that guy can really get going
12:10.19Dr_Phreakensteinyup
12:10.33Dr_Phreakensteinsomehow (lots of prayer) i am still alive
12:11.32Dr_Phreakensteinnot to preach (i hate that), but that was really a faith-building experience
12:11.46Dr_Phreakensteintoo much wind load for my caravan
12:11.54Dr_Phreakensteinterrible trailer
12:12.06Dr_Phreakensteinratchet straps rubbing on tires
12:12.20Dr_Phreakensteinno good strapdown points
12:12.46Dr_Phreakensteinand those that there were had iffy welds that were bending under the stress
12:13.00d-loheh, sounds like the stuff 'good stories' are made of eh?
12:13.09Dr_Phreakensteinengine redlined or plain ran out of steam on hills
12:13.14Dr_Phreakenstein:) indeed
12:13.34Dr_Phreakensteinoh, and i drove 800 miles on 2 hrs of sleep
12:13.49Dr_Phreakensteinmaxed out debit card, so could not get gas...
12:14.01Dr_Phreakensteinmad it home with about 1 pint, no joke
12:14.26Dr_Phreakensteingauge said i was getting 4-5 mpg on hills
12:15.00d-loyou must *really* love that gear :D
12:16.04Dr_Phreakensteinuh-huh!
12:16.13Dr_Phreakensteintoo bad it is still in driveway
12:16.20Dr_Phreakensteinno room in garage
12:16.36Dr_Phreakensteinoh, and i came out about even vs shipping
12:16.45d-lowhere is it going to go?  (Ultimately)
12:16.49Dr_Phreakensteinhowever, now i have a hitch and wiring
12:17.07Dr_Phreakensteinwell, i have to move to a different house... this is funny
12:17.27d-lohell, you gotta move it all again?
12:17.30Dr_Phreakensteini have a wife+3 kids, right (ages 1, 2, 3)...
12:17.51Dr_Phreakensteinwell, it is still on trailer, and this time will be a shorter drive
12:17.52d-loWoot!  You got me beat!  (mine are 5,4,2.5)
12:18.10Dr_Phreakensteinyeah, 375 and 383 days apart
12:18.18d-loniceness.
12:18.38d-lo379 stdev 4
12:18.49Dr_Phreakensteinso, we are planning on moving into my mother-in-law's garage, after renovation
12:18.56Dr_Phreakenstein:)
12:19.02Dr_Phreakensteincool :)
12:19.15Dr_Phreakensteinthat thing is 40*24'
12:19.17d-lo15 months between my first 2 and 21 between the last two.  works out to 15 days shy of exactly 36 months :)
12:19.37d-lo'Moving into garage' as in the family? or the gear?
12:19.48Dr_Phreakensteinwith a wall across 24' width, 15' from back
12:19.53Dr_Phreakensteineverything
12:20.03Dr_Phreakensteinshop in front, family in smaller space
12:20.36Dr_Phreakensteinwill share bath and kitchen with bigger house to avoid legal and bldg permit hassle
12:21.09d-loNow that I have all 3 pairs of little feet storming up and down the steps in a 3 story townhome.... I am begining to covet a studio style layout :/
12:21.26Dr_Phreakensteinthere is that...
12:21.37d-logood call on the legal.
12:21.52Dr_Phreakensteini am in townhome, lack sufficient electricity and garage space
12:22.38d-loI can't remember... is this just a hobby, or a hobby turning into a bidness?
12:22.39Dr_Phreakensteinas in computer, 3 printers, workbench, aircompressor, lamps, room lights, and some house outlets on 20amps
12:23.03Dr_Phreakensteincompressor trips brks, and my UPS squawks, plus i lose light
12:23.07d-lo20 or 200?
12:23.14Dr_Phreakensteinhobby-to bus
12:23.26Dr_Phreakenstein20 amps
12:23.47d-lo...your whole townhome is served by a 20 amp feed?!?
12:24.02Dr_Phreakensteinnever mind hooking up my rack, with those computers
12:24.11Dr_Phreakensteinno, just all the big stuff
12:24.42d-lowhats the main house feed?  100A or 200A service?
12:24.48Dr_Phreakensteinit has 4 20 amp circuits for most everything (save stove, etc), but all lights and outlets
12:25.19d-lo(are we talking about your townhome or the MIL's garage?)
12:26.06_sushi_Hey how dangerous is the 120VAC>
12:26.08Dr_Phreakensteincurrent place... not sure of total, no main brkr in panel
12:26.13_sushi_If you touch it are you gonna die?
12:26.19Dr_Phreakensteinonly deadly,y?
12:26.23_sushi_Should be less dangerous than the European 230
12:26.42Dr_Phreakensteinonly takes 10 mAh through heart
12:26.46d-lo120Vac can kill you... 230 can kill you...440 can kill you dead.... but then again, so can a 9V or AA battery :)
12:27.00Dr_Phreakensteinlowest known lethality was 30vdc
12:27.29Dr_Phreakensteinfor exocution
12:27.43Dr_Phreakensteinthat must have been agonizing
12:27.55_sushi_tickled to death?
12:28.12d-lo0.001a person killed themselves with a multimeter (powered by a 9V)
12:28.15Dr_Phreakensteini have been bitten by 15kv, but low current. it only sucked
12:28.31Dr_Phreakensteinthat takes some talent!
12:28.50Dr_Phreakensteindeath by fluke
12:28.52_sushi_Must have rammed the measuring points directly into his heart
12:28.53Dr_Phreakensteinpardon pun
12:29.17Dr_Phreakensteinaided with brine solution, to improve conductivity
12:29.27d-loput it on Ohms, and jabbed a lead in each index finger.  9V/resistance of blood = enough amperage to pop his heart.
12:29.39d-loded
12:29.43Dr_Phreakensteinno, MIL place, i will install my own dedicated power
12:29.46_sushi_did the heart make a popping sound?
12:30.00d-loI imagine you could do the same thing with a 1.5V batter if you wanted.
12:30.18Dr_Phreakensteinsounds like wasted talent
12:30.19d-lo_sushi_: dunno, but I imagine not.
12:30.28d-loDarwinism in full effect
12:31.37Dr_Phreakensteinnice
12:31.39_sushi_did he suffer from darwinism?
12:31.50_sushi_I made a 50V power supply for my optical receiver
12:31.53_sushi_Is it lethal then?
12:31.54d-loseemingly so ;)
12:32.13d-loVoltage isn't lethal, its the current that the voltage develops that is.
12:32.33Dr_Phreakenstein<_sushi_>: what you must know is that here in US, we do everything possible to protect such persons from themselves
12:32.49d-lo...and we shouldn't :/
12:33.25Dr_Phreakensteinbut every now and again, you get someone really determined, which results in those sorts of stories, more laws, and greater national debt
12:34.12d-lonot that you're bitter or anything :)
12:34.49Dr_Phreakensteinnot to sound cruel, but if you do not buckle up, and you crash, hey, we just should not pay the bill. sorry, dude. the car had seatbelts, since what, 1968, maybe sooner?
12:34.49_sushi_Hmm you need 300-500mA DC to cause fibrilation
12:35.03_sushi_My power supply is designed for about 100uA current
12:35.14Dr_Phreakensteinget a cap
12:35.15d-lofib is usually only incuded by AC current....
12:35.25_sushi_But since it's mounted on a roof person touching it accidentally could be shocked and fall from the roof
12:35.33_sushi_I should still put a warning sign there is 50V inside
12:36.00Dr_Phreakensteinor mount it to car... excellent anti-theft
12:36.02d-lo0.1mA makes a muscle twitch, 1.0mA causes physical pain, and 10mA causes death.
12:36.24_sushi_d-lo: where do you have 10mA from?
12:36.31Dr_Phreakensteinfigures 1 A should do it
12:36.35d-loeh?
12:36.42_sushi_d-lo: source URL?
12:36.53_sushi_I don't believe the story with the battery
12:37.04d-lotraining.  In my past life, I was an electrician.
12:37.04_sushi_I would believe the one with 30V if properly contacted
12:37.08Dr_Phreakensteini have electronics pocket ref, and it says 10mA
12:37.25_sushi_for AC?
12:37.31_sushi_And how much for DC? My supply is DC
12:38.05Dr_Phreakensteinany 10 mA
12:38.14Dr_PhreakensteinDC-purple
12:38.53Dr_Phreakensteinyour body is pretty efficient as electricity is only signal, not motive power
12:39.06alex_joniany voltage/current pair is lethal with the right set of electrodes
12:39.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33749 10/rt^3/trunk/src/coreInterface/ (Combination.cpp Object.cpp): moved resource pointer memory management into Object class
12:39.24alex_jonialmost any ;)
12:39.36Dr_Phreakensteinyup
12:39.42d-loWorst case senario:  A person is tired, cold, naked and wet... their body resistance is about 300 ohms.  If it takes 100mA to kill that person (300ohms / .1 = 30) then a mere 30V applied to the person will kil them
12:40.28Dr_Phreakensteinthere ya go
12:40.59d-loi was forgetful in my numbers (1mA moves a muscle, 10mA = pain and 100mA causes death)  but that is average... each person is different.
12:41.25Dr_Phreakensteinremember, that 10mA has to go through heart, and it is too hard to predict path through a body, so much current may be wasted
12:41.36Dr_Phreakenstein"wasted"
12:41.58d-loanyways, blood is about the same resistance as water... nearly zero, so if you take a 9V battery:  9V/.001ohms = 9000A.... yeah, that'll kill ya.
12:42.17_sushi_lol
12:42.26Dr_Phreakenstein-internal resistance of cell... still lethal
12:42.35d-loand .001 ohms is very very generous
12:43.09Dr_Phreakensteinso don't play with electrons, kids
12:43.33_sushi_hmm when I take 12V into sweaty hand and press hard then I can make 0.12mA
12:43.34Dr_Phreakensteinone day, i walked past and outlet...
12:43.37d-loheh, well, at least don't stab yourself with live electrical leads.
12:43.51_sushi_I don't think my blood has 1mOhm
12:44.07Dr_Phreakensteini was a bit alarmed to see my favorite klein screwdriver sticking straight out of the outlet
12:44.07d-lo_sushi_: exactly... ever wonder why your car battery is only 12V but can knock you on your ass? :)
12:44.14_sushi_10 kOhm
12:44.16Dr_Phreakensteinthankfully, from the ground
12:44.33d-looh dear... kiddo get a hold of it?
12:44.33_sushi_d-lo: never heard about car battery knocking anyone
12:45.06Dr_Phreakensteini guess... trying to be like me and "fix" stuff
12:45.10d-lo_sushi_: well grab both the + and - sides of your car battery sometime and you'll find out.
12:45.13d-lo:)
12:45.35_sushi_d-lo: 120uA and I don't feel anything
12:45.41Dr_Phreakensteinbetter yet, place wrench carefully across terminals...
12:45.49_sushi_wrench != body
12:46.05Dr_Phreakensteinno, but lead acid can arc weld
12:46.08_sushi_they are made from very different material
12:46.16d-loDr_Phreakenstein: Lol, yeah.. did that during my first carstereo install... scared the life outta me.
12:46.30_sushi_d-lo: never welded before?
12:47.03d-lo_sushi_: 120uA is .000120 amps... we are talking .001, .01 and .1 amps.... several magnitudes difference
12:47.20d-lo_sushi_: yes, several times... but on purpose.
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12:47.43d-lothe wrench on the terminals was an accident and not expected.
12:48.05d-lothus, scarey.
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12:49.27d-lobesides, if you have a 50Vdc power supply and the load on it is only drawing 120uA... that in no way means that the 50Vdc p/s can't be shorted to ground and draw lethal current....
12:49.52d-lothe general rule of thumb is anything around or over 30Vdc should have a warning sign of some sort...
12:51.04_sushi_d-lo: what I said if I connect my sqeaty hands across 12V and press down hard, I get only 120uA
12:51.37_sushi_That shows my body resistance with sweaty hands and pressing down hard is 10 kOhm
12:51.48_sushi_If you take 30V and 10kOhm, you get 0.3mA
12:52.01_sushi_You need 300mA to be lethal, still 3 oderrs of magnitude are missing.
12:52.27_sushi_oh no, 100kOhm!
12:52.34d-lo...just curious.. but where are you getting this 120uA measure from?
12:52.42_sushi_from an ampmeter
12:53.00Dr_Phreakensteinhey, if we stop hearing from you during these tests, what is the local number to call ambulance in your area?
12:53.16d-lolol
12:53.25Dr_Phreakensteinand where should we send 'em?
12:53.37Dr_Phreakenstein:)
12:54.30d-lomultimeter or ammeter of a 12V power supply?
12:55.26_sushi_d-lo: multimeter, at 40mA range
12:55.38_sushi_Now I was able to make 500uA, but I had to press so hard that it was painful
12:56.16d-lo10K sounds about right for normal situation hand to hand resistance.
12:56.22Dr_Phreakenstein....which is a good reminder of when to stop
12:56.38_sushi_Dr_Phreakenstein: the pain was from pressing, not from the current
12:56.54Dr_Phreakensteini know that, point still stands
12:57.28Dr_Phreakensteini am not afraid of electricity, but i have never intentionally shocked myself, ammeter or otherwise
12:57.49_sushi_I Once put 16V AC across my skull when I was a kid
12:58.00_sushi_I could see dim white flickering light in my peripheral vision
12:58.02brlcadheh, 'splains a lot, don't it
12:58.08Dr_Phreakensteini do not want to be on record as encouraging this sor of thing
12:58.13Dr_Phreakenstein:)
12:58.14_sushi_Across the temples. From the model train supply.
12:58.15d-loget both hands 'sweaty', grab two metal pipes and then check your body resistance.
12:58.22d-lolol
12:58.38d-loshould get about 1k-5k
12:58.57Dr_Phreakensteinagain, there is the idea of stopping while ahead
12:59.03_sushi_Sounds like you have to be a pretty good contortionist to actually kill yourself with domestic voltage
12:59.06Dr_Phreakensteinor less behind
12:59.44_sushi_Then I got scared that maybe I killed some cells in my brain with that current and now I become retarded
12:59.59Dr_Phreakensteinhas no comment
13:01.02Dr_Phreakensteinthinks not to remind these guys of ethanol... a great brain-cell-icicide
13:01.12d-lonot really _sushi_ :  A person just gets done washing dishes.  They see the toaster is still plugged in and lean over to umplug it.  One hand on the metal sink(wet) the other hand grabs the plus.  They overreach a tad and a finger slips around and hits the hot prong as its coming out of the wall... with both hands wet and one hand on a good grounding point... zap.  can easily be killed.  
13:01.28d-loplus = plug
13:01.49_sushi_d-lo: I think US should get their plug design fixed
13:02.11d-lohas nothing to do with plug design... electricity is still electricity.
13:02.24_sushi_It has - the European plug doesn't allow you to touch hot parts
13:02.34Dr_Phreakenstein?!!!
13:02.34d-loits very easy to get shocked... especially when you don't know the dangers involved.
13:02.38Dr_Phreakensteinwhich one?
13:02.53_sushi_British, Czech,///
13:02.56Dr_Phreakensteinthe round pin ones that always arc and fall out of socket?
13:03.28_sushi_But seriously the US plug is a major health hazard
13:03.43Dr_Phreakensteinbritish plug design is good, but fails in implementation.
13:03.55Dr_Phreakensteini used to replace about 5-10 a day
13:04.18_sushi_You can half insert it and then touch the hot one with your finger
13:04.33Dr_Phreakensteinhave fun with that
13:05.18Dr_Phreakensteinoh, and those switches in the outlets... brilliant idea, really
13:05.35Dr_Phreakensteinexcept that they always weld together
13:05.40d-loDr_Phreakenstein: agreed.
13:06.42Dr_Phreakenstein<_sushi_>: hate to say, but outside of Brittain, British electrical equipment has a poor reputation. can anyone say Lucas?
13:07.04Dr_Phreakenstein7 fuses in series to power a car stereo
13:07.18Dr_Phreakensteinno reason for that
13:07.28d-lothe US plug is by no means the safest... but there is a trade off there.  the number of electrical related deaths is pretty low.
13:07.38Dr_Phreakensteinindeed
13:07.58d-loDr_Phreakenstein: Well,if you want to make absolutely damned sure that the stereo has overcurrent protection...
13:08.12Dr_Phreakensteinwhat we are saying is, though there is plenty of anger, actual incidence of death is low
13:08.16Dr_Phreakenstein:)
13:08.32_sushi_Look at the US plug it has all-metal contacts and the area around the socket is flat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Domestic_AC_Type_B_USA.jpg
13:08.33Dr_PhreakensteinI should have charged a lot more for that job
13:09.03_sushi_If you insert halfway you can still touch the hot prong. I have tested that myself witha plug we have here. Checked with a multimeter that there is a contact, and that I can touch with a finger.
13:09.07Dr_Phreakensteinyes, familiar w/ those units
13:09.07d-loheh, I am well aware of what the US socket looks like :)
13:09.35d-lo_sushi_: Yes... and?
13:09.52Dr_Phreakensteinthat is why we do not conduct such tests, we already have a good idea what will happen...
13:10.04Dr_Phreakensteinhow good is that GFCI?
13:10.11_sushi_The Euro plug has an elevated area around the socket, preventing a finger access when half-inserted: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:C_plug.jpg
13:10.38d-lonot that I will admit anything Dr_Phreakenstein , but gfci is pretty good protection :)
13:11.03Dr_Phreakensteinyes, but i have a policy to not tempt fate
13:11.30d-lo_sushi_: yes, there are US receptical coverplates that perform the exact same function.
13:11.32Dr_Phreakensteinespecially since so many things are made in, shall we say, poorly regulated corners of earth
13:11.46_sushi_The British plug has part of the hot prongs insulated, so you cannot get into contact with lethal voltage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:G_plug.png
13:11.59Dr_Phreakensteinnot all of them are so made
13:12.08d-loWhats sooooo wrong with the lowest bidder?  They need to make a living too!
13:12.27Dr_Phreakensteinand they do
13:12.50Dr_Phreakensteinwe just do not touch live conductors, live to see another day
13:13.25d-lo_sushi_: and the trade off is that the surface area in which current can conduct is reduced... thus rasing current density and lowering the life of the connection.  Its a trade off.
13:13.42Dr_Phreakensteinthat is y kitchen appliance plugs are so short... it will unplug rather than stay on while causing injury
13:14.10d-loaka, the G_plug is rated at 13A whereas the US standard is rated to 15A, sometimes 20A
13:14.40_sushi_But the G plug has higher voltage therefore you can get even higher power
13:15.02_sushi_According to my opinions The US plugs shouldn't be used with more than 48V
13:15.40_sushi_they are low voltage plug, then don't offer any protection against accidental contact with live conductor
13:15.44d-lotrue. but us sockets are rated to 230V... although they only carry 110-130.
13:15.48_sushi_Like banana plugs.
13:16.09Dr_Phreakensteinor some other euro plugs
13:16.26_sushi_Some of the Swiss have the same problem as the US ones
13:16.35d-lo_sushi_: Some sockets have the female portion of the contactors recessed.  Serves the same function as the G_plug but also invokes the same limitatiosn.
13:16.37_sushi_Also all-metal conductor and no elevated area
13:17.19_sushi_d-lo: I disagree that having a recessed socket invokes any electrical limitation
13:17.47Dr_Phreakensteinin fairness, US design is quite old, and people do not want to retrofit. but we have one standard for our primary outlets, an advantage over continental europe where poor adapters can lead to hazards
13:18.32_sushi_US is one state, whereas Europe isn't
13:18.41_sushi_Within each state you also have one standard
13:18.42Dr_Phreakensteinum, 50 states
13:18.47d-lo_sushi_: not the recessed socket, the insulated prongs of the G-plug.  Some us sockets have recessed electrical contacts (while the face of the socket stays the same) thus, also, reducing the contact area.  thats the comparison I was making.
13:18.50_sushi_Or one country
13:19.24d-loheh, one of the few times anything has been standardized sucessfully :/
13:19.51Dr_Phreakensteinlike the metric sys... congress made it official
13:19.54Dr_Phreakensteinin 1896
13:20.00Dr_Phreakensteinor 1898, i forget
13:20.05_sushi_lol
13:20.14d-lolong story short, there are pros and cons to each design.  neither is superior.
13:20.14Dr_Phreakensteinyou can see where that went
13:20.25_sushi_btw how much is a pint?
13:20.29d-loalso likes metric. Dividing and multiplying by 10 is much easier.
13:20.31Dr_Phreakensteini have to buy 2 sets of tools to work on even one car
13:21.11Dr_Phreakensteini am used to metric from cycling, but even there, certain things are spec'd in inches
13:21.20d-lo9/16th or half... wtf?  Neither?  Damn it, its a 13mm....
13:21.29Dr_Phreakenstein1 pair of chain links is 1 inch when new
13:21.34Dr_Phreakenstein:)
13:21.41Dr_Phreakensteinstory of my life
13:22.36Dr_Phreakensteincertain bearings may literally have inch OD, metric ID
13:22.41Dr_Phreakenstein?!!!
13:22.47d-loheh, now thats stupid.
13:22.52Dr_Phreakensteinwho thought of that!
13:23.04d-lohopefully someone who is now unemployed.
13:23.12_sushi_10mm inner diameter and 10inch outer?
13:23.18d-lolol
13:23.29d-lothats a badass bearing!
13:23.47Dr_Phreakensteinmore like 1.5 inch OD, 25mm ID, or so
13:23.47_sushi_wouldn't work
13:23.55Dr_Phreakensteinsure it would
13:24.00_sushi_but 1cm inner and 1in out could work
13:24.04d-lo~9" diameter ballbearings for a <10mm shaft...lol
13:24.29d-loi dub it... the 'Compensation Bearing"
13:24.36Dr_Phreakenstein:)
13:24.55Dr_Phreakensteinheh, just got second part
13:25.02Dr_Phreakensteinneed to sleep
13:25.08d-lo"For when your bearing *can* be huge when it doesn't need to..."
13:25.17d-lonighty night!
13:25.28Dr_Phreakensteino, i still gotta finish H/W
13:25.40d-lowell get to is slacker!
13:25.48d-loedit: well get to it slacker!
13:25.50Dr_Phreakensteinlooking at 24 oz rockstar, viso, and chai
13:26.03d-locareful with that energy drink stuff......
13:26.07Dr_Phreakensteinall 2/3 gone
13:26.14Dr_Phreakensteinyeah, fries nerves
13:26.25Dr_Phreakensteintakes calcium from bones and teeth
13:26.46Dr_Phreakensteinleads to diabetes and blood pressure problems
13:26.52d-loI have to back off the Mt Dew... I randomly make strange noises and/or scream at brlcad.  I think he's scared of me...
13:26.53Dr_Phreakensteinmakes me want to smoke
13:26.59brlcadheh
13:27.15Dr_Phreakensteini was up to 2 liters a day of that stuff
13:27.20Dr_Phreakensteinfor 3 yrs
13:27.30d-lobrlcad: did you get your requisite 4 hrs down?
13:27.49brlcadyeah, and then some after a hard workout last night.. sore
13:27.53Dr_Phreakensteinactually, they started making 3L bottles, and i would have one a day for a month or so
13:28.17d-loI bet your pancreas hates you...
13:28.24Dr_Phreakensteinbtw, it does not have effect that urban legend says
13:28.34Dr_Phreakensteinyeah, probably
13:29.11d-lowell good.  I thought I was crazy living on 5-6 hrs aday... when I heard you say " i only need 4! " I was sceptical...
13:29.50Dr_Phreakensteini was telling brlcad about polyphasic sleep... d-lo should try, too
13:30.01Dr_Phreakensteinonly 3hrs per day
13:30.02d-lowell, you best get to that homework before you sugar crash.
13:30.09Dr_Phreakensteintoo late
13:30.17Dr_Phreakensteini crashed and rebounded
13:30.45d-lowhen I was in the Navy on the sub, we shifted to 18 hour days... thats an awesome schedule.  Up for 13-14, down for 4-5.
13:30.54d-lo*that* works like a champ.
13:31.27Dr_Phreakensteinnice
13:32.06d-loI tried it when I wasn't underway though.... doesn't work so well when you can see the sun.
13:32.23Dr_Phreakensteinhow about in hacker cave?
13:32.32d-lobrlcad: you got a membership to a gym somehwere or do you do it all at home?
13:32.42d-lohas no hacker cave.
13:33.02d-lohas children that find him anyways no matter where he hides
13:33.21Dr_Phreakensteini got a sawzall and a shovel that'll fix that
13:33.32Dr_Phreakensteinyeah, me, too
13:33.36Dr_Phreakensteini love 'em
13:34.06brlcaddoesn't believe in working out from home
13:34.09brlcadat least it's not for me
13:34.33Dr_Phreakensteinsays that some people work, some people work out
13:34.42brlcadjust not sustainably effective -- too convenient and easy to get accustomed to ignoring
13:34.43d-lobrlcad: Thats cool.  What's your reasoning?
13:34.59d-lo(if your dont mind me asking)
13:35.10d-lois having a *very* bad typing day :/
13:35.34brlcadworks for some (very few), but I mostly find that it's just too convenient
13:35.37Dr_Phreakensteinmust be contagious
13:35.56brlcadthere are so many other things in the house that can always take attention, and be more entertaining even
13:36.05Dr_Phreakensteinhmmm
13:36.30brlcadwhereas physically going to the gym is a separate event in itself, a place you go to get something done
13:36.59Dr_Phreakensteinonly thing that works for me is cycling (contrived destination), or, certain "partner assisted" cardio events
13:36.59d-loah, so its a mental conditioning thing... gotcha.
13:37.13d-lohence, 3 kids.
13:37.15d-lo:P
13:37.17Dr_Phreakenstein:)
13:37.20brlcadplus just the social aspect of working out with others working out can help sustain that conditioning, get you past the ruts
13:37.25Dr_Phreakensteinand a vascectomy
13:37.46Dr_Phreakensteincool, glad that works for you
13:37.49d-logreat, they just issued a 50mph wind warning.... $5 says I lose power at work :/
13:38.13Dr_Phreakensteini just lost pwr here... alarm at 7-11 just shut off
13:38.20brlcadyeah, I heard that last night .. that should be fun
13:38.27Dr_Phreakensteineven the telco RT reset
13:38.29brlcadshould have a betting pool on which trees fall
13:38.51Dr_Phreakensteinmark 'em w/ different colors of spraypaint like BLM
13:39.08d-lowas having fun doing an obstical course all the way to work. The Jeep Patriot handles much better than he thought!
13:39.27Dr_Phreakenstein..."there's only one!"
13:39.47Dr_Phreakensteinwhat state is this in, MD?
13:39.48d-looh dear... anything fall on the new ride brlcad ?
13:40.03d-loDr_Phreakenstein: Damned skippy!  Yes, Work in MD, live in PA.
13:40.11Dr_Phreakensteinfun
13:40.27d-lo1 hour commute through Amish country :)
13:40.46Dr_Phreakensteinyou east coasters are why america uses so much gas
13:40.49Dr_Phreakenstein;)
13:40.59d-loheh.
13:41.02d-lotell em about it.
13:41.07Dr_Phreakensteinthings are more spread out here, but we have shorter commutes, go figure
13:41.22Dr_Phreakensteinexcept much of CA
13:41.22d-lobut I wasn't about to drop 2.5x the money for a house just to live in MD.
13:41.29d-logrew up in AZ.
13:41.37d-loknows spread out.
13:41.37Dr_Phreakensteinnot to say i blame you at all
13:42.00Dr_Phreakensteinjust stay away from Maricopa Cty sherrif!
13:42.16d-loWhat I bought in PA for $130k was going for $280k(ish) in MD
13:42.26Dr_Phreakensteinpink jumpsuits and all
13:42.27d-loI still have my pinik boxers lol.
13:42.33Dr_Phreakenstein:)
13:42.50Dr_Phreakensteinnice
13:42.51d-lo"Sherrif Joe busted my ass" on the back... priceless.
13:43.31d-loIf I could work a 100% telework contract with the Government... I'd so be moving back to the west.
13:43.41Dr_Phreakensteini could buy a phone booth here for $125K... but it would be advertised as a "cozy... handyman's dream..."
13:43.45d-lohas his eye on Northern Colorado/Wyoming.
13:44.00Dr_Phreakensteinnot bad
13:44.10d-loPrices bad out there then?
13:44.25Dr_Phreakensteinyes, thanks to Californication
13:44.48Dr_Phreakensteinand no lumber, thanks Green peace and spotted owl!
13:45.25Dr_Phreakensteinnot that spotted owl is any different than striped one, just does not get away from chainsaws fast enough
13:45.26d-loThem Cali's are screwing up AZ too.  They are causing the real-estate market to crash and mess my family's investments!  (fumes)
13:45.37Dr_Phreakensteinyup
13:45.41Dr_Phreakensteinthat's ok
13:45.55Dr_Phreakensteinthey will be bankrupt and fall into Pacific soon
13:46.09Dr_Phreakensteinalready halfway there... bankrupt
13:46.47d-loI new a guy who thought it would be funny if the 'Big One' hit cali and everything east of the fault fell into the Atlantic.
13:47.14Dr_Phreakensteinhmmm...
13:47.19d-loMurphey would probably laugh his ass of at that one.
13:47.39Dr_Phreakensteinhe may need to re-examine the atlas before he gets his hopes up
13:48.15d-looh thank god.... it finally compiled.  Stupid Singleton....
13:48.39Dr_Phreakensteinyeah, then nobody to pay high prices for hollywood movies, actors must find productive work now
13:49.21d-loaint that the truth.  Perhaps all the Pro Sports players would get a real job too... but thats just asking too much i suppose.
13:49.53d-loI suppose that Education will become more important that the NFL about the same time hell freezes over.
13:50.43Dr_Phreakensteinif then
13:50.59``Erikwere saying 60 on the radio
13:51.13Dr_Phreakensteinhow much to build new arena?
13:51.28d-lohopes this building gets damaged.. maybe we can get a new one!
13:51.34``ErikHAH!
13:51.37Dr_Phreakensteinhow many schools, teachers, textbooks for that much money
13:51.42d-loI know... I laughed too.
13:51.58Dr_Phreakensteinwith obama, you will get at least one
13:52.07``ErikI'm upstairs because the floor is gonna give, I"d rather fall than be fallen on O.o
13:52.31d-lonot to mention, for that amount of money... you just *might* get a few more students to stop betting their career on Pro Ball and actually prepare for life.
13:52.41Dr_Phreakensteinactually, they will have so much money, they will build one, tear it down, then make a new one from granite and gold
13:52.51Dr_Phreakensteinyeah
13:52.52d-loack, true.  theres a big heavy thing over my office too....
13:53.21Dr_Phreakensteinhey, stop calling Erik "the big heavy thing over my office"
13:53.25Dr_Phreakensteinsorry
13:53.27Dr_Phreakensteinthat was bad
13:53.34Dr_Phreakensteindid not mean it
13:53.36``Erikheh, I'm one over, he's talking about dave :D
13:53.39d-lorealizes that armed with this knowledge, Murphy and his laws are putting d-lo at serious risk....
13:53.55Dr_Phreakenstein:)
13:53.58``Erikpheer the skeery dave on dave action that might happen O.O (or didja mean the safe)
13:54.19Dr_Phreakensteinwhat's the diff?
13:54.33d-loretches and the mere beginnings of the mental picture 'Dave on Dave Action'
13:54.59d-loHi, my name is Dave and this is my Co-worker Dave and my other Co-worker Dave.
13:55.08d-loWe work at a freaky cloning factory.
13:55.20Dr_Phreakensteinanything like that dude, what's his name...
13:55.26``Erikpasses out mandatory flannel and those earflap hats
13:55.26Dr_Phreakensteinrosie o'donnel
13:55.34d-lolawl.
13:56.03d-loMandatory Flannel ...sounds like a punk rock band or the punch line to a really bad joke...
13:56.04Dr_Phreakensteinba-dum-che
13:56.38Dr_Phreakensteinsounds like the hour when the rock stations plays only 90's alternative
13:56.39``Erikwait, I think dlo just called my wardrobe a really bad joke *sob*
13:56.54Dr_Phreakenstein... hey, and mine
13:57.01d-loRosie is on the list of "People to leave behind when we evacuate Earth during Armageddon"
13:57.19Dr_Phreakensteinyeah, craft not rated for that payload
13:57.33``ErikI thought she was on the passenger list for the one we shoot into thte sun, isn't that how simpsons portrayed it?
13:57.38d-lo``Erik: You play the guitar, right?
13:57.54``ErikI beat on strings and fake it
13:58.02d-loFlannel allowed then.
13:58.11Dr_Phreakensteinyou know a dude named Eric Johnson?
13:58.28d-loSpecial Agent Eric Johnson?
13:58.31Dr_Phreakensteinthink satriani, steve vai
13:58.57``Erikplay a lot of narvarna, alice in chains, soundgarden, ... and I lived in the seattle area from '88 to '96, so I'll pretend I'm allowed to be a throwback :D
13:59.06Dr_Phreakensteinnice!
13:59.26Dr_PhreakensteinAIC, "would"... great bassline
13:59.47Dr_Phreakensteinsimple, but solid
14:00.12brlcadd-lo: there aren't too many trees to worry about in the city, bigger concern are ancient power poles in the alleys
14:01.07*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
14:01.17d-lobrlcad: Ack... didn't even consider that... forgot that power isn't buried everywhere....
14:01.29d-lobrlcad: Still have power?
14:01.33d-lo:D
14:01.44``Erikobviously he doesn't
14:01.45``Erik:D
14:02.09d-lohas his router and modem on a dedicated UPS. :P
14:02.37d-losometimes it works... sometimes not.  Depends on the ups in the Comcast cabinet down the street.
14:02.58``Erikheh, yeah, my cable modem, 'server' and wireless router are all on a fairly big consumer grade ups
14:03.39d-lo``Erik: Hows the cable modem feeling now adays?  any better?
14:04.26Dr_Phreakenstein... in the time it took to ask that, rates increased another $3
14:04.32``Eriktracked it down to a specific connection, might clean it and shoot some silly-con or a little oil to fight off corrosion
14:05.03Dr_Phreakensteindeoxit
14:05.06d-loDr_Phreakenstein: aint that the truth.
14:05.08``Erikneed to clean up my den so I can make the cable company come fix it, probably needs the splitter replaced and upstream cable cut and redone
14:05.34Dr_Phreakensteindon't bother... cockcast?
14:05.34``Eriklacks a coax crimper
14:05.44Dr_Phreakensteinthey will make it worse, if and when they show
14:06.06d-loi dunno, their rates might be high, but I have had decent luck with the techs that come out.
14:06.16Dr_Phreakenstein"tech"
14:06.25``Erikyeah, I tried to call them out after an 8 hour service failure, soonest they could schedule someone to look at it was 2 weeks away... ended up working again "magically" so I never bothered
14:06.53Dr_Phreakensteinas in 6 grueling hours of how to say "I dunno, but it will cost more... and save you money, somehow"
14:07.13``Erikamusingly, I could probably drop off all my gear and cancel my service on the way in to work, call, and have a tech out to install stuff when I get home. but fixing something for someone already paying? 2 weeks.
14:07.43Dr_Phreakensteincancel that auto debit
14:07.51Dr_Phreakensteinthey will be more responsive
14:07.53Dr_Phreakensteinno joke
14:08.30``Erikheh, never bought into that, I don't like the notion of people  taking money from me without letting me audit and approve first
14:09.11d-lowell, i have heard of *some* people who call in and cancel service knowing that they probably won't get around to turning it off for a few months... at which point they call back in and turn it on again.  gets a few free months out of it...
14:09.50Dr_Phreakensteinusually only works for tv part
14:10.10Dr_Phreakensteinand then they may never actually unhook phys connection
14:10.30Dr_Phreakensteinsomeone like me, but legally distinct from me told a funny story
14:10.41``Erikthey usually don't, houses have pretty much all come pre-wired for cable for the last 25 years
14:10.51Dr_Phreakenstein"he" used to live in a 104 unit apt complex...
14:11.18Dr_Phreakensteinconvinced all neighbors to disconnect cable service
14:11.27Dr_Phreakensteinthen reconnected them
14:11.43Dr_Phreakensteingot them to chip in for replacement locks for boxes...
14:12.12Dr_Phreakensteinalso, bought bolt cutters from Home Depot, used them for project, and returned them when done
14:12.23Dr_Phreakensteinthat guy is great!
14:12.52Dr_Phreakensteinfigured if nobody started/stopped service, they would never come out
14:12.53d-loWell, there is a fine line between being economical and being flat out cheap :D  Good story though.
14:13.06Dr_Phreakenstein:)
14:13.29Dr_Phreakensteinthat may be worse than cheap, but hey, those guys had it coming
14:13.44Dr_Phreakensteinsometimes ya gotta enforce a little karma yourself
14:14.31Dr_Phreakensteindon't remember his name...
14:15.17d-loi'm sure :)
14:16.43Dr_Phreakenstein:)
14:18.25d-lobrlcad:  Do you remember what the difference is between pkg_conn.pkc_inbuf and pkg_conn.pkc_buf ?
14:19.51brlcadnot off the top of my head
14:19.59d-lokk
14:27.23Dr_Phreakensteingoodnight, kids
14:27.48``Eriklater
14:27.48Dr_Phreakensteinbe safe at work, and watch out for falling daves, safes, and powerlines
14:28.44Dr_Phreakensteinrember, US plugs are dangerous!
14:28.50Dr_Phreakensteinremember
14:29.35d-loas my Basic Electricity Instructor always said:  60Hz?!?  Why yes it does!
14:29.48Dr_Phreakenstein:)
14:30.45starseekerestimates his car's wind profile and decides to risk it...
14:31.42d-logeek
14:31.43d-lo:)
14:31.55``Erikheh, I'd heard at some point that the big safety problem with the US power grid was more about the frequency, but it may've been damn swede propoganda
14:32.31``Erikthe wind barely effected me on the way in, the suvs and trucks didn't seem bothered, either
14:38.30*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-158.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
14:38.49``Erikcontemplaes the next code hackery to inflict
14:39.37d-looptions?
14:39.37``Erikuhm, mostly isst shtuff
14:39.37d-loright, but what parts are on the chopping block?
14:40.05``Eriklocal library linking (getting rid of distributed and the networking overhead)? conversion to libpkg for distributed? arsing out the cut feature? resizable windows? elimination of the mysql dependancy?
14:40.32d-loI would go with the pibpkg thing :)
14:40.36d-lolibpkg even.
14:40.44``Erikonly so you'd have someone to ask questions of O.o :>
14:41.06d-lothat and see another implementation  of it to draw exp from :)
14:41.16d-loeither way, its purely selfish :)
14:41.19``Erikhrm, the tpkg.c thing isn't useful enough?
14:42.07d-loits been a huge help, but hasn't answered all my q's.
14:42.50d-loI R Newb, 'member?
14:43.18``Eriksurspects that with recent workstations, distributed is actually a slowdown for isst, it runs awfully snappy with all 3 components running on the workstation, with the overhead of all thsoe packet copies and the compression/decompession of it all
14:44.43d-lowell, if you are already operating at the far right of 'the curve' then yeah, no reason for distributed.
14:48.41CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33750 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/slave.c: comment on a noticed crash, will deal with it later.
15:02.57CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33751 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (9 files in 3 dirs): move geometry loading stuff from slave/ to libtienet/
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15:37.39d-lo<PROTECTED>
15:39.45``Erikuhm, doesn't orbit have something to do that? or libidl?
15:40.30*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14D758.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:40.59d-lodunno :)  I want something simple, lgpl and portable
15:42.30``Erik<-- has only bothered with uuids in java, they seem like a using thermobaric when a pistol would suffice most of the time O.o
15:43.40d-lowell, I want to make it as simple as the Java implementation... but If i have to generate all 128 bits randomly, then so be it.  Just don't know much about random seeding and predictability on computers.
15:43.58``Erikseeding is just a number, random is not
15:44.04brlquestionsHi everybody !
15:44.36``Erikbut if you hash the hostname (or a mac address), time and semirandom, it should be good
15:45.14``Erikhrm, libuuid is part of e2fsprogs
15:45.26d-loexactly.  If its not as simple as randomly taking 128 bytes, then I might as well find a simple lib rather than recreate the wheel.
15:45.33d-loyeah saw that one.
15:45.52``Erikthe versions are explicitely defined
15:46.08d-loright, I just want type 4 (Random)
15:47.53d-lonm, OSSP looks like a solid choice.  thanks!
15:50.21``Erikah, mit license, cool beans
15:51.50brlquestionsworking on a brute force fillet ... CPU about to burn !
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18:20.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33752 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (glob.c qray.c): (log message trimmed)
18:20.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: Problem with MGED starting up was due to errors getting returned by ged commands
18:20.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: if a database was not open, despite this being a valid state to attempt
18:20.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: commands. The fix is two-fold. First, glob.c has had its logic for checking on
18:20.23CIA-40BRL-CAD: the state of the database moved to where it actually needs it - the regexp
18:20.25CIA-40BRL-CAD: matching part. Second, if the wdbp is null return OK, and do this BEFORE the
18:20.27CIA-40BRL-CAD: database open check. It may be that some libged commands will need to make the
18:25.46starseekerso far, opendb will successfully open a file but I don't get the background color update specified in the .mgedrc file.  However, I do get the settings imported into the color preferences panel and can successfully apply them
18:26.36starseekerI guess this makes sense - if the user locally overrides the bkg color you don't want it switching everytime a new file is opened
18:27.05starseekerwonder if there should be a special case for no file previously opened
18:42.21starseekerbrlcad: "gets" man page?
18:44.00starseekeryou mean the Tcl gets command?
18:44.29brlcadyes
18:44.34brlcadman n gets
18:45.07starseekerdo I set up a standard tcl file handler and use that then?
18:45.17brlcadpretty sure that problem is due to our gets replacement that handles the stdin redirect, and it may just be logic that didn't get migrated to ged
18:46.37brlcadsorry, mac manual page doesn't have the example -- this: http://tmml.sourceforge.net/doc/tcl/gets.html
18:46.38starseekerthe gets manpage here has no example - is there another somewhere?
18:46.43starseekerah :-)
18:47.21brlcadbasically that exact example won't work
18:47.29brlcadand of course it should :)
18:47.37starseekerall rightie...
18:47.39brlcadit's not a tcl problem, it's because we replace gets
18:47.48brlcadso we're doing something wrong
18:47.50starseekerwith ged_get?
18:47.54brlcaddunno
18:48.00brlcadmight be tcl-only in stc/tclscripts
18:48.55starseekerhmm
18:49.28brlcadcheck ged/mged first
18:56.36brlcadexample: [morrison@ocho (Thu Feb 12 13:54:26) ~]$ brlcad-config --libs bu
18:56.37brlcad-L/usr/brlcad/rel-7.12.6/lib -lbu -ltcl8.5 -Xlinker -framework CoreFoundation -lpng -lm -lpthread
18:57.03brlcad[morrison@ocho (Thu Feb 12 13:54:40) ~]$ brlcad-config --ldflags bu
18:57.03brlcad-L/usr/brlcad/rel-7.12.6/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -Wl,-search_paths_first -Wnewline-eof -g -O3
19:05.08starseekerbrlcad:  is your error "can't read "line": no such variable ?
19:07.38brlcadyep
19:07.49brlcador it'll crash, can get a couple things
19:08.26brlcadmight just need an "upvar $varname"
19:12.00starseekerthere's an upvar $args vname
19:18.25starseekerinteresting - works in -c mode
19:20.11``Erik<PROTECTED>
19:21.06starseekereh?
19:21.28starseekerwhat happened?
19:21.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33753 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (74 files): remove executable property from .c files.
19:21.47starseekerah - I was wondering about that
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19:29.23CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33754 10/rt^3/trunk/ (31 files in 3 dirs): added a simple uuid generation library from OSSP (http://www.ossp.org)
19:33.30d-lohi mafm!
19:43.59CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33755 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/text.tcl: Add upvar for incoming variable so gets functions as expected on mged command line.
19:44.36starseekerbrlcad:  you called it - just took me a bit to figure out how to use it and test
19:44.42brlcadcool
19:45.19starseekermged -c and mged work very differently in some ways, don't they
19:46.30CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33756 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: Take gets bug off of todo list - may have already fixed the File->Open but need to confirm on more machines.
19:50.34louipcIf jove is deprecated should it be disabled by default?
19:58.00brlcadstarseeker: yep
19:58.02brlcadlouipc: meh
19:58.54starseekerbrlcad:  File-Open is fixed?
19:58.57brlcadin the sake of being completely self-contained, I think we should still provide 'some' minimal editor .. just not jove
19:59.04brlcadmaybe an old version of vi
19:59.21louipcah hehe
19:59.38brlcadbut that'd be pointless until I get a terminal ported anyways
19:59.51brlcadstarseeker: don't know
20:00.05brlcadi'm working on something else
20:00.24louipcthere aren't any plans to deprecate mged -c are there?
20:01.24starseekerbrlcad:  what's yep?
20:01.47starseekeroh, the mged remark?
20:02.04``Eriklikes mged -c, but would like jove to be removed sooner than later :)
20:02.19louipcyeah
20:05.09``Erikwhat's a good svn post-commit hook? the included one keeps failing with no useful message
20:05.58starseekerwe could always use the original vi from 4BSD :-)
20:06.38starseekerthinks it would be cruel and unusual punishment for folks used to jove though
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20:06.59d-loMUWAHAHAHA
20:07.50``Eriked, damnit.
20:08.23d-loEd is down here talking to Bob.
20:08.33``Erik/bin/ed
20:08.43d-lo=D
20:09.04``Erik"I used ed to edit files. Ed, go write me my files."
20:09.22louipcyeah I dunno, I think editors are widespread enough that you shouldn't need to ship one with your software, unless there's a particular need for that editor
20:09.38d-loI think Ed needs a new sign on his door:  "/bin/ed"
20:09.51``Erikwe need to have one in our 'special' list to launch stuff like red and oed and those
20:10.16d-lo``Erik: so, basicly, brlcad needs /special/ed ?
20:10.23d-lo:)
20:10.31louipc``Erik: a guaranteed fallback?
20:11.16``Eriked is the guaranteed fallback ... :D src/mged/tedit.c
20:11.23louipchaha it is
20:11.54``Erikwill just delete that annoying emacs line and make it all better O:-)
20:13.43``Erikhrm, on the bsd's, emacs and vim tend to live in /usr/local/bin O.o wonder if that should be done to have a set of paths and programs and permute them, instead of singly hard coding that
20:14.24louipcyeah probably
20:14.36``Erikhaving /usr/bin/emacs and /usr/bin/vim seems a little wrong to me :D like leenewx weenies who have never done critical system recovery and don't know about partitions
20:15.22louipcwe use live cds
20:15.28louipc:D
20:15.39``Erikmy cd's are all inorganic, so, uh, dead
20:18.44louipchmm this could be a replacement candidate http://www.bostic.com/vi/
20:19.08brlcadlouipc: heaven's no
20:19.23brlcadmged -c is here to stay for probably as long as there is an mged
20:19.42brlcadstarseeker: that's actually what I was thinking of re old vi
20:19.44louipcbrlcad: ok good to hear
20:20.59brlcadlouipc: the point of shipping one is really "just in case" there isn't a system editor (extreme portability, embedded environments, new platforms, etc)
20:22.12brlcador on the off chance that it's a system that doesn't have things properly configured, we do something sensible other than something stupid like Can't open display:
20:22.36brlcadX11 being particularly notorious for horrible messages
20:25.41brlcad``Erik: it is wrong, none should be listed -- but jove makes for a horrible default and letting it search PATH would be a security weakness
20:28.29louipcnice. that vi ^ is smaller than nano
20:29.21``Erikoh, nvi, that's the one included in the bsd's for /usr/bin/vi
20:30.02``Erikalmost 71000 lines, ed is 3500
20:30.11louipchaha
20:31.22d-loEd is rather touchy about that, so just keep your voice down.
20:38.42``Erikvim weighs in at 264,291, and emacs at 1,166,933
20:39.51brlcadinterestingly, vim is well past the point at which folks used to complain about emacs' size back in the 90's
20:39.56``Erikhrm, I did vim with sloccount, which eliminates blank lines and stuff, ed scores 2750 and 45,326 when I use the same metric
20:40.14``Eriknvi 45k
20:40.23``Erikeight megs and constantly swapping?
20:40.32starseekerplots to include nvi quietly one night...
20:40.33brlcadthinks ``Erik should write a drupal sloccount plugin for the website
20:40.37louipc:D
20:41.00starseekerbrlcad:  How much longer before we can strip out jove altogether?
20:41.10``Erikheh, I have to fix my svn mail hook first, and do that command for mged O.o
20:41.43brlcadstarseeker: see doc/deprecation.txt
20:43.31louipclooong time
20:43.35brlcadthinks we should have a little "vgr" login widget on the website ala cgi:irc where you could log onto a simh session
20:44.07``Erikindeed
20:44.12brlcadbasically around 7.22
20:44.51``ErikI was kinda thinking.. mebbe it should spawn a fresh instance for every user and let htem have root on a temp copy of the disk i mage
20:44.59brlcadyeah
20:45.19brlcadactually a whole lot harder to do anything but root probably
20:45.30``Erikplus a hell of a lot more boring
20:45.42starseekergrumbles a little about having to leave jove in so long when it can't handle files we might need it to...
20:45.46starseekeroh, well
20:45.53brlcadanother interesting one would be a web-based mged where your command prompt would send commands to an "mged -c" instance
20:47.27louipcattach (nu|X|ogl|web)[nu]?
20:47.36brlcadheh
20:53.48CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33757 10/brlcad/trunk/ (AUTHORS include/raytrace.h src/librt/db_comb.c):
20:53.48CIA-40BRL-CAD: add a new rt_comb_get_color() routine to librt that returns the color for a
20:53.48CIA-40BRL-CAD: given combination. this change comes inspired by a code snippet contribution
20:53.48CIA-40BRL-CAD: from Van Hoa Le (SAIC) that was using a similar routine for their purposes.
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21:25.24``Erik*grump*
21:33.38CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33758 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/db_comb.c): oops, sry bob et al. fix typo and sig to unbreak the build
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22:07.53``Erikwow that's slow
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22:38.46brlcad``Erik: fix normals should probably be rewritten
22:39.00brlcadit's presently an O(n^3) algorithm (or worse)
23:00.46CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33759 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): beginnings of nmg_fix_normals mged cmd
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090213

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090213

00:17.32``Erikho hum
00:22.53Ralithhum ho
00:25.42``Erikhum, ho, hum!
00:25.44``Erik:D
00:26.26Ralithho, hum, ho?
00:26.28Ralith:x
00:31.42starseekerhuh?
00:34.59``Erikno, you're supposed to hum, not huh
00:34.59``Erik:D
00:35.01``Erik*duck*
00:35.57starseekerheh
00:38.32starseekerreally really really needs to merge sed/oed
00:54.40``Erikblargh, in-memory presistence is something beyond a lot of web language/frameworks capabilities it seems :/
00:56.48CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33760 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/ (14 files): Add remainder of editing commands to tcl based regression testing
01:05.04CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33761 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/ (Makefile.am kill.mged killall.mged killtree.mged mged.tcl): Add kill commands
01:47.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33762 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/ (28 files): Add view commands to tcl based regression testing.
03:00.47*** join/#brlcad schwinn434 (n=schwinn4@cpe-75-81-198-192.we.res.rr.com)
04:16.42starseekergrr - I still get the file dialog failure
04:16.51starseekergot some debugging on it this time though
04:17.45starseekerhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m50b34840
04:21.19starseekerbrlcad:  would BRL-CAD be involved with that pointer being null somehow, or is this a Tk<->X11 issue?
04:21.43starseekertests 7.12.6
04:22.33starseekerit does NOT happen in 7.12.6
04:22.43starseekeralright, this is officially STRANGE
04:23.58starseekerwait...
04:24.07starseekerme recompiles 7.12.6 with this version of Xorg
04:25.44Dr_Phreakensteinwhat file dialog failure?
04:26.22Dr_Phreakensteinother tk programs have lately taken to crashing upon attempts to select and open files
04:29.17``Erikchecks out clozure
04:43.46starseekerDr_Phreakenstein:  precisely what I'm seeing
04:44.04starseekerany bug filed that we can track?
05:15.44brlcadstarseeker: should have continued the bt to see the rest of the stack
05:16.22brlcadit conceivably could be a bug with the new ttk layer, but not as likely as something on our end
05:16.28louipcstarseeker: mged on r33756 works for me!
05:22.33starseekerbrlcad:  I have the full bt, hang on...
05:23.14starseekerhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m65ddbd44
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11:05.19brlquestionsHi everybody !
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12:41.09starseekerbrlcad:  It's either tcl/tk specific or something at the btclsh level
12:41.28starseekerbrlcad:  using the test code from here:  http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1863942&group_id=12997&atid=112997
12:41.41starseekerstraight up in btclsh, I get the same segmentation fault
12:45.31starseekerhowever, in 7.12.6, also in btclsh, on the same machine, the same minimal test code works
12:51.07starseekerhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m6bdffd96
12:53.13starseekeraccording to svn, neither our tcl nor our tk has had a change applied since Nov 2008
12:56.43starseekershudders to think that the problem might predate that but grabs 7.14.0 to test
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13:24.05CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33763 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added nmg_fix_normals.c to be in sync with Makefile.am
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13:26.00CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33764 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db5_io.c: corrected direction of a memcpy (rt_db_put_internal for in-memory databases)
13:29.11CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33765 10/rt^3/trunk/ (include/brlcad/Object.h src/coreInterface/Database.cpp): clean-up of db_i handling (this should not change anything)
13:34.27CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33766 10/rt^3/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
13:34.27CIA-40BRL-CAD: added the half-space object
13:34.27CIA-40BRL-CAD: (it is simple and well suited to test some basic concepts)
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13:42.24starseekergrowls in disbelief as 7.14.0 refuses to compile on his box
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14:45.37starseeker7.14.0 fails too
14:45.39starseekerwow
14:50.54starseekerbrlcad:  I'm beginning to suspect it's related to that generic event patch, but testing it will take a while on this box
14:51.01starseekerOK, coming in
14:55.12brlcadstarseeker: which patch?
14:55.44louipcstarseeker: I had a problem building 7.14.0 too
14:55.52brlcadlouipc: oh?
14:55.54louipctry using: SC_PATH_TCLCONFIG=-- ./configure --with-tcl=/usr/lib
14:56.19louipcyeah that fixed it
14:56.48brlcadwhat does SC_PATH_TCLCONFIG=-- do?
14:56.56brlcadaside from the obvious
14:57.27brlcadsuspects starseeker actually ran off
14:57.33brlcadd_rossberg: nice example
14:57.46louipchmm I forget
15:01.20louipcbrlcad: oh I think the configure script didn't have --with-tcl enabled which could have been solved by running autogen again
15:08.34d_rossbergbrlcad: isn't it :) next i try to add an object to the database
15:10.08CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1208 10/wiki/Animation: start the animation tutorial with the example that lee butler sent to the mailing list in march 2006
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15:27.57CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Erik 07http://brlcad.org * r1209 10/wiki/Main_Page: /* Tutorials */ add animation. sort.
15:49.25starseekerbrlcad:  the patch to tkBind.c
15:50.02starseekerthat was the solution for newer Xorg versions causing Tk to fail - or rather, it was the first round solution
15:50.12starseekerit looks like it was NOT the solution they ultimately went with
15:52.03starseekerEr, no correction
15:52.18starseekerthe newest one is from the gentoo ebuild tracker
15:52.35starseekersigh
15:52.53starseekerI've got a test build going at home with 8.5.6 just to see if it works
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16:06.53``Erik*think*
16:10.32starseeker``Erik:  are you authorized to think?
16:12.53``Eriknot on duty at the moment, I'm allowed to try new things when I'm off :D
16:13.00starseekerah
16:13.13``Erikrdo+holiday == 4 day weekend, w00t
16:13.13starseekertries to think why a build would fail with
16:13.16starseekerregex.h:138: error: parse error before 're_void'
16:13.26``Eriksomething before re_void didn't parse
16:13.53starseeker<PROTECTED>
16:13.53starseeker<PROTECTED>
16:14.01``ErikI've noticed new regex.h fighting on the mac, not sure why
16:14.08starseekeroh no, not again
16:14.10``Erikwhat's __REG_VOID_T defined as?
16:14.18starseekernot sure
16:14.28``Erikgcc -E
16:14.40``Erikor start grepping
16:14.54starseekerin that file it's supposed to be undefed if deffed
16:14.58starseekerer defed
16:15.07``Eriktypedef NULL re_void;  might not go so well
16:15.13starseekercrap gotta run
16:15.33starseekerbbl
16:15.37``Erikhasta
16:15.56starseekerthis is standard tcl 8.5.6 with no mods - wouldn't expect their regex.h to be foobared...
16:22.52``Erikmebbe not, but it may conflict weird with the system regex.h (that they called theirs regex.h is fubar, frankly)
16:36.49``Erikbleh, they changed slime
16:46.11CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33767 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/proe-g.c: ws and style consistency cleanup
17:10.52``Erikgets the impression _sushi_ is looking for a match on a painted up vw minibus O.o
17:14.54CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1210 10/wiki/Animation: extensive rewrite and expansion of how to create an animation
17:16.05CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1211 10/wiki/Main_Page: stray ]
17:16.15``Erikthinks it'd be neat to have keyframe and bezier path spline information in the .g file :D
17:16.39*** join/#brlcad cad85 (n=540355b2@bz.bzflag.bz)
18:05.21brlcadomg, this is hilarious (NSFW) .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5sTBrs4fhQ
18:07.19``ErikO.o heh, condom balloon animal orgy, pheer
18:08.24archivistgood one!
18:09.05``Erikhah, they did outtakes, even
18:35.41CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33768 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.c: While I agree with this sentiment regarding Windows, this bit of artwork does not belong here.
18:38.49brlcadaww
19:13.43starseekerwhy is proe-g.c pulling in the tcl regex?  grr
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20:32.17brlcadstarseeker: any progress?
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21:31.40brlcadoh, now that is too cool
21:31.44brlcadhttp://imagebin.ca/view/QO3itGqg.html
21:32.03brlcaddone by three high school girls in spain for a class assignment
21:32.17brlcader, portugal
22:41.35starseekerbrlcad:  not yet
22:41.49starseekerbeen working on other odds and ends
22:42.53starseekersame regex failure on linux with 8.5.6 thoygh
22:43.02brlcadmight want to check out the history in src/other/tcl
22:43.32brlcadrecall there being a couple header edits for previous revisions, don't know if those have to be preserved when bundled
22:43.38starseekerah
22:43.48starseekertakes a look
22:44.23``Erikyes, they do, and I forget which header
22:44.42``Erikif the package gets updated, a line has to be added or the regex errors come back :(
22:55.58brlcadsomeone(tm) should push a fix upstream so they fix their regexness
22:59.14``Erik2000 seconds left
23:07.21brlcadoh right
23:08.30*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
23:10.40starseekerbrlcad:  would they pay attention to me?  I'd love to not have to worry about this :-)
23:13.41brlcadif the patch made sense, sure
23:14.46brlcadthey'll probably bitch about being embedded and saying it's a problem with the CPPFLAGS (which would be partially true), but if the fix doesn't hurt their build they'd probably apply it
23:17.42starseeker``Erik: were the header edits made within the context of svn or were they made before the update was committed?
23:18.07starseekeris looking at the log of src/other/tcl back to r27734...
23:19.46``Erikum, I'm sure I patched it as its own item at some point
23:20.38``Erik28466
23:20.47``Erikin generic/
23:20.51starseekerah - thanks
23:22.07``Erikhm, it's still in there
23:22.19starseekerin the tree? yeah
23:22.24starseekerI'm testing before committing
23:22.30starseekerI haven't touched trunk
23:22.59starseekerbingo, build continuing
23:23.49starseeker``Erik, brlcad:  thanks!
23:24.07``Eriknp
23:24.14starseekerbrlcad:  would upstream accept that include?
23:26.12starseekermust remember to grab bob's fix for large parsing too...
23:29.51brlcaddon't recall what the fix was
23:30.42``Erikadding a #include "./tclInt.h" to regex.h
23:32.13brlcadah, right
23:32.54``Erikwe just passed magic time
23:46.40starseekercoool :-)
23:47.08``Erikis suprised there was no /wall
23:48.52starseekerfigures given how long ago that fix was applied someone probably tried it and got turned down...
23:49.08``Erik*sigh* in the beginnig was sccs, and it was. Then came rcs, and it was better. Then came CVS, and all was good. Then came svn... eh. Then came darcs, mecurial, git, etc and now it's all fucked up
23:49.25starseekerwhat happened?
23:49.44``Erikwell, I want to install a couple small lisp libraries
23:49.54starseekerah :-)
23:49.57``Erikbut the community seems to have decided that making releases sucks
23:50.02``Erik"just use the repo"
23:50.04``Erik...
23:50.17``Erikso now I'm installing too much shit for a small libraries small dependancy
23:50.20starseekerwoooooooooot - 8.5.6 works without segfaulting on the file open dialog
23:50.53brlcadexcellent
23:51.03starseekerloads tire and raytraces it...
23:51.23``Eriksorry, brlcad, your new server is getting git installed :(
23:51.30brlcadmeh
23:51.31starseekerand is again made painfully aware of how much his system sucks compared to the SuperMacs
23:52.17``Erikyeah, but you went through all the trouble of installing the 387 yourself just to speed it up, it'd be a waste to ditch it now ;)
23:52.54starseekerhehe
23:53.12starseekerannnnnd... archer still dislikes me as much as ever
23:53.49starseekerunknown option "-menu"
23:54.44starseeker``Erik:  what's the best procedure for upgrading tcl/tk - svn del everything and add in the new, copy it over and update,... ?
23:55.17brlcadmerge it in
23:55.46starseekerright, but to make sure I clear out un-used files and add in files not in currently...
23:55.54brlcadsvn add the new files, svn delete the removed files, commit the whole thing as one step
23:55.57``Erikum, I untarred tcl/tk into a tmp directory, did a find to build a manifest, plus a manifest of the existing stuff, copied it all over, diffed the two manifests to see what to do
23:56.05starseekergot it
23:56.09``Erikfinding the removed files is the part I think he's asking about
23:56.26brlcadyeah, diff the trees
23:57.11brlcadafter you copy it all over, the new stuff is easily identified if your build dir was clean to start with -- no unknown files, so anything unknown is a new file
23:57.17brlcaddo the diff, and it'll say what to remove
23:57.34starseekerall rightie
23:57.59starseekersmacks self on forehead as he just realizes he built in-tree after all that trouble to set up building out of tree...
23:58.00brlcadi think there's maybe even a way to make "svn merge" do the work for you, but never tried it
23:58.16brlcaddistclean ftw
23:59.13starseekerah, right
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090214

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090214

00:05.37brlcadhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m1b503188
00:05.47brlcadproblem is apparently at least one of those lines
00:06.16starseekerhmm
00:06.21brlcadthe tcl backtrace should say which
00:06.50starseekeris it just my system or does someone else see it?  
00:07.06starseekerwill track it down after merging updates
00:07.16brlcaddon't get it here
00:12.43``Erikopening files is for wussies
00:29.03CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33769 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/ (357 files in 37 dirs): Update tcl/tk to version 8.5.6 - attempted to retain fixes to regex.h for build issues and tclIO.c for exceeding maxint
00:29.21starseekernow the check - fresh checkout and build
00:29.37``Erikkept meaning to upgrade tcl/tk in the repo, but kept having other crap to do :D
00:37.04smurfettewho wants to listen to me dj and request music? :D
00:40.19CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33770 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/generic/tclIO.c: Oops - that's maxint, not maxInt
00:46.43starseekersmurfette:  sorry, gotta run to dinner :-/
00:53.41``Erika likely story O.o
00:58.11``Erik*snrkt* "I B M U B M We all B M for I B M!"
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01:38.03brlcadstarseeker: does the edit menu work for you in mged?
01:38.18brlcadin solid edit mode
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02:22.32``Erikwilliam shatner just keeps getting creepier and creepier O.o
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03:05.40starseekerbrlcad: seems to for pipe
03:06.00starseekerwhere are you seeing failure?
03:16.43starseekerbrlcad:  how does one get gdb going on archer?  or some other debug tool?
04:07.42brlcadstarseeker: archer would actually be prime for the tcl debugger from activestate (non-free, commercial), but you can also debug via running tclsh through gdb .. or using print statements
04:08.06brlcadrecommends the latter
04:08.35brlcadputs "HERE1" ... etc as you search closer and closer
04:19.14``Eriknice http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1900011 guy steals everything but the zune (even steals the headphones off the zune)
04:20.01Ralithhey brlcad
04:20.08Ralithor well
04:20.13Ralithanyone
04:20.19Ralithever seen a __gnu_cxx::__concurrence_lock_error before?
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05:01.00CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33771 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/tclscripts/mged/edit_solid.tcl):
05:01.00CIA-40BRL-CAD: and here I thought I'd already tested and committed this fix for 7.14.0 but
05:01.00CIA-40BRL-CAD: apparently never did. this is a fix that makes the Primitive Editor work again
05:01.00CIA-40BRL-CAD: without popping up an error about the switch statement having a problem. it's a
05:01.00CIA-40BRL-CAD: stupidity in switch that can't handle comments between the case blocks. someone
05:01.00CIA-40BRL-CAD: reported this but I can't find a reference to it anywhere atm.
05:07.33``Erikthis guys logic is effin' awesome
05:07.41``Erikhttp://www.collegehumor.com/video:1790237
05:09.07brlcadRalith: sorry, can't say that I have
05:09.18brlcadsounds like maybe a rather new gcc bug
05:21.00Ralithseems like it
05:21.27RalithI'm getting it from any binaries built with -lOgreMain
05:21.39Ralitheven hello world
05:29.09``Erikamerican history is awesome http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1900402
07:02.55CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33772 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: looks like the mged Open->File bug is fixed, but it still fails to initialize mged something awful.
07:05.54CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33773 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: cliff has the task of exhaustive mged testing close enough to done to call it done as a release task.
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07:34.48CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33774 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/ged.c libged/qray.c mged/mged.c):
07:34.48CIA-40BRL-CAD: fix some of the initialization and shutdown problems including the qray vls one.
07:34.48CIA-40BRL-CAD: the problem was a set of pointers in the gedp that were getting freed/closed but
07:34.48CIA-40BRL-CAD: weren't being set to null so the second use of that gedp erroneously would try
07:34.49CIA-40BRL-CAD: to use the old pointer (and crash).
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17:54.04starseekereyes RamDebugger http://www.compassis.com/ramdebugger/
17:54.25starseekerbrlcad:  Is that tool not terribly helpful for us?
17:55.08brlcadnever tried that one
17:56.41brlcadfrankly just haven't really needed a tcl/tk debugger to date given the relatively low frequency of tcl-specific errors and the speed at which I can usually track down the few tcl-specific ones using manual methods
17:56.49brlcadbut give it a try
17:56.53brlcadit won't help with mged
17:57.01brlcadat least I'd be surprised
17:57.15brlcadarcher is another story, though
18:06.19starseekeris interested for archer
18:07.18starseekerand rtwizard, for that matter...
18:07.46starseekerbrlcad:  Would the plan be to put archer's UI logic on top of the "tcl in C" setup that mged has?
18:08.29brlcadyep
18:08.29starseekergrowl...  I can get wish running RamDebugger, but bwish is another story.
18:08.40starseekerbrlcad:  Ah, no matter then
18:08.59brlcadbwish is just wish with a bunch of initialization
18:09.09brlcadyou could do the initialization manually if you had to
18:10.08starseekerwould need to get tile, tklib, and a couple other tcl/tk packages into bwish, probably...
18:10.49starseekeralthough tile should be in there, come to think of it
18:11.02starseekeryep hmm
18:12.47starseekerthe others are there too
18:12.52starseekeroh, I see it now...
18:12.58starseekerError in startup script: unknown option "-sticky"
18:31.16starseekerwonders what itk_initialize wants now that it didn't want before...
18:42.15louipcwooops
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23:01.47starseekerbrlcad:  our Itcl and Itk are reporting version 3.4, but I only see 3.3 on the website - do we have a dev version?
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23:11.14brlcadi believe so
23:11.23brlcadpretty much 3.3 plus a couple fixes
23:11.28starseekerhmm
23:12.04starseekeris a tad puzzled as to what could cause RamDebugger to fail in bwish
23:29.31starseekerwait - perhaps it's incompatible with itk??
23:31.51starseekerblinks
23:34.14starseekerbrlcad:  the pkgIndex.tcl file in /usr/brlcad-svn/lib/itcl3.4 lists /usr/brlcad-svn/lib/itcl3.4/libitcl3.4.a as the file to load, but it's actually at /usr/brlcad-svn/lib/libitcl3.4.a
23:35.14starseekercome to think of it, archer is failing with unknown option "-menu" and RamDebugger is failing with unknown option "-sticky"
23:36.43starseekerthrows in some symbolic links...
23:39.32starseekernuts - now it says invalid ELF header
23:40.36starseekergrowl
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090215

00:20.09starseekerwell, that's probably it then - something about my bwish is messed up
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19:53.03CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33775 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/preppedGeometry/PreppedTgc.java: Added support for TGC primitive
20:00.35brlcadmakes a note to port more of that lib to C++
20:01.28brlcadfor now, though, time to visit the family
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20:21.44inacioCan anyone tell me how to, or point me to the correct docs, on how to build brl cad for mac os?  First it wouldn't handle OpenGL; then I added an LDFLAGS variable to configure "-F/System/Library/Frameworks -framework OpenGL" but now autoconf tells me it doesn't know how to use the compiler.  Any tips, or the web page I should read, because I couldn't find it.
20:22.39brlcadinacio: doc/README.MacOSX
20:22.57inaciowow, that's embarrasing…
20:23.07brlcadyou should actually turn off the ogl inteface --without-ogl
20:23.20brlcadit's problematic on Mac due to an X11 issue
20:23.44brlcadyou won't lose functionality -- we implement the same functionality via other protocols
20:24.07inacioI will lose HW acceleration though, right?
20:24.13brlcadnope
20:24.18inaciocool
20:24.43brlcadwe don't do shaded displays via opengl yet anyways, we use ray-tracing
20:24.58brlcadthat'll be sometime next year
20:26.29inacioIs there a default config string for Mac OS?  I was trying
20:26.29inacio./configure --prefix=/opt/local/brlcad --with-ogl --enable-optimized --enable-dtrace LDFLAGS="-F/System/Library/Frameworks -framework OpenGL"
20:26.56inacioobviously this should at least become
20:26.57inacio./configure --prefix=... --without-ogl
20:27.32inaciocan I use --enable-optimized and --enable-dtrace?  (I don't really need dtrace, btw, mostly curiosity)
20:28.52inacioI am trying this on a PowerMac dual G5.
20:28.56inacioif it matters.
20:31.01inacioshould I want a 64-bit version?
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20:32.28brlcaddtrace with optimized is probably kinda useless
20:32.37brlcadjust like debugging with optimized
20:32.57brlcadmight get something, but it'd only be useful to devs
20:33.22brlcad64-bit isn't going to do anything for you
20:35.34inaciodtrace is just to have something of real size to try with dtrace.  It might be interesting to me to see what I can understand from performance using just dtrace.  I occasionally run into analysis problems similar to that on programs whose code base isn't available.  I realize that it might be fairly non-sensical.
20:36.44inaciowhat happens when you try to use OpenGL on Mac OS?  I didn't dive into the compile problem, but I guess that someone else has.
20:37.14brlcadbad behavior
20:37.40brlcadsome issue in the glx bindings causes the display to not update until it's invalidated, among other issues
20:38.00inaciothat would get pretty ugly
20:38.01brlcadthe compile problem is probably easy to fix -- builds fine with ogl here
20:39.11inacioI have a pile of libraries and such installed for working on my day job, I wonder if there is a conflict.  (I doubt I will dive deep enough to figure it out though.)
20:49.28yukonbobhello, cadheads
20:53.02yukonbobbrlcad: (or anybody) -- can you compare contrast brlcad w/ CATIA in a sentence or two?
20:53.17yukonbob*compare/contrats
20:53.23yukonbob*contrast
20:56.29yukonbob!wow -- CATIA is now Windows only, if I understand v6 correctly...
20:58.36louipc!
21:03.46yukonbobis curious re: brl-cad vs. catia because I just got a book about computers and archtecture, and found out Frank Gehry uses a CATIA core for his work... I saw a documentary about him and saw him working on his computer and at the time wondered what he was using... apparently, it's CATIA
21:03.56brlcadyukonbob: sure cadn. "BRL-CAD is *way* more awesome than CATIA."
21:04.12yukonbobbrlcad: ok.. thanks... ;)
21:04.19yukonbobLOL
21:04.23yukonbobwaves to brlcad
21:04.55brlcadsentance #2: "BRL-CAD is Open Source and CATIA is not."
21:05.07louipcbrlcad++
21:05.38yukonbobwould getting BRL-CAD to a place where one could be competitve with f. gehry a smop, or are there so many core differences that it's comparing apples and oragutuangs?
21:06.01yukonbob*smop -- simple matter of programming
21:06.35yukonbobie: building an interface (perhaps archer is already there) and perhaps linking-up existing library functions in unique ways...
21:07.12yukonbob*orangutans
21:08.03yukonbobsvn updates...
21:16.05brlcadsmot&e
21:16.09brlcadtime and effort
21:17.18brlcaddessault puts more manpower into catia than any other cad company (that I'm aware of) except maybe autodesk w/ autocad
21:17.41brlcadthey have more than 1000 *devs* that work on it
21:18.27brlcadof course, that's across all lines that dassault employs afaik
21:19.00yukonbobwhat's the status of brl-cad and nurbs?
21:19.09yukonbobintegrated and Good?
21:19.22brlcadbeing worked on bit by bit
21:19.32brlcadnot done by any stretch, but making progress
21:21.22brlcadthe status is "needs more time and effort" :)
21:22.14yukonbobsmop/smot&e nice...
21:28.55CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33776 10/jbrlcad/trunk/ (62 files in 15 dirs):
21:28.55CIA-40BRL-CAD: Added support for TGC primitive
21:28.55CIA-40BRL-CAD: Added a simple rt sample app
21:28.55CIA-40BRL-CAD: Added some unit tests
21:40.41brlcadgood gravy.. john must have been working on that all day or more
21:41.53brlcaddetaches and hits the road, cya all later
21:43.03yukonbobciao
21:43.24yukonbobprepares to head-out, too
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090216

01:40.34``ErikO.o
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02:32.28starseeker``Erik:  help
02:33.05``Erikheh, uh, O.o no, the appropriate way to fix a light socket is not with a paperclip?
02:33.39starseekerwhere would autotools be getting lib/itcl3.4 instead of lib?
02:34.01``Erikerm, from a script?
02:34.12starseekerok, but which script?
02:34.34``Erik<-- not sure what you're talking about
02:34.38starseekerapparently no one else is having this problem - me fears autotools is doing something odd
02:34.54starseekeroh, my itcl/itk installation is acting oddly
02:35.04starseekerI think it may be why I can't start archer
02:35.58``Erik<-- never really dicked with the itcl/itk stuff other than merging in some cvs stuff to make it work with tcl85
02:36.17starseekerah
02:36.54starseekerhunts for some sort of "minimal" itk test file
02:38.17``Erikto the best of my knowledge, itcl/itk is a nasty hack to emulate basic oo type stuff for tcl/tk, is going to be deprecated by tcl86 or something, and I have no clue what it's used for or why in brlcad :D I haven't spotted any of its goofy syntax in any tcl script I've dug into, unless I'm mistaken about the goofiness of it
02:38.47starseekeruh oh
02:39.03starseekerI think Bob has been using it quite a bit, both in archer and possibly his libtclcad
02:39.21``Erikis generally unhappy when he has to venture into tcl land, likes the straight C path to rt*
02:39.29starseekeragrees
02:39.48``Erikwere it lithp or thcheme or thomething, I might feel differently
02:40.11``Erikbut I was, uh, mortified by tcl when I messed with it a little around a decade ago for eggdrop stuff
02:40.13starseekerironically enough, this problem started when I tried to get a tcl/tk debugger working in bwish in order to debug archer
02:40.30``ErikI even TRIED to like it! it shared certain things I could claim were almost scheme like
02:40.57``Erikmeh, shoulda just shoved a bunch of printf() and echo ""'s in
02:41.07starseekerapparently
02:41.14starseekerthat just feels so... crude
02:41.20starseekerto say nothing of time consuming
02:42.13``Erikoften uses printf() debugging in C, even though he knows gdb reasonably well
02:45.28starseekerin this case, I know what's failing - I'm just not sure WHY
02:46.18``Erikthe nice thing about the printf style is you pick and choose all the data you want to examine and where, then just pull the trigger and get a nice log of what the program did to contemplate
02:46.39``Erikinstead of setting break points and examining before continuing
02:47.03``Erikdifferent tools for different problems *shrug* dismissing one 'just because' is limiting yourself :D
02:47.33starseekeroh, sure - I've used printf sometimes too
02:48.01starseekerbut in the case of huge mass of code where I don't know what any of it is doing...
02:48.43``Erikmass, or mess?
02:48.50``Erik:D
02:49.24starseekerisn't ready to call it a mess yet...
02:49.29starseekermaybe later
02:49.41``Erik<-- never debugged tcl stuff where he didn't have a good idea of what was going on and where the problem was before
02:49.52starseekerah
02:50.20``Erikhttp://crit.brlcad.org:9090/   ucw sorta doing something almost semi interesting
02:50.59``Erikoddly, (push val history) didn't work, but (setf history (cons val history)) did
02:51.30starseekercool
02:51.38starseekeris impressed
02:53.42``Erikoh, heh, I screwed something up
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03:01.11``Eriksweet, idiocracy on tv
03:04.12Dr_Phreakensteinso...
03:04.20Dr_Phreakensteinisn't that what is usually on?
03:07.06``Erikno, usually it's idiotic, this is a movie mocking that :D
03:07.14``Erikstarseeker: fixed that ucw page, check it out now O.o
03:07.53starseekerheh - neat?
03:08.20``Erikit's weired wiring it up, I THINK that involves all teh hard pars
03:08.21``Erikparts
03:08.38starseekerwonders if anyone else has successfully muddled through ucw
03:08.54``Erikum, there're like, 4, apparently
03:09.32``Erikhttp://bees-kneesfilms.com is one of the few ucw sites out there O.o
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03:19.15``Erikwtf
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13:30.05Satisfiedi'm looking for a cad program for a number of small projects that involves gear trains and pulley systems.... is brlcad appropriate or should i look into one of the commercial packages like solidworks or inventor?
13:34.18``Erikare you looking for something to automatically tell you ratios and number of teeth and stuff, or model it? and are you looking for drafting output, or just visualization/analysis?
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13:37.02Satisfiedwell, I'm not anxious to spend hours constructing gears manually.   I think Inventor has builtin templates that for the standard involute curves and such
13:37.28``Erikhm, we have template and pattern tools, but no automagic gear build
13:37.41_sushi_Satisfied: I even had to write a complicated program to approximate threads from oblique cylindrical slices
13:37.57_sushi_The result is that BRL-CAD becomes overwhelmed with the number of component and the partitioning algorithm clogs
13:38.09``Erikoverwhelmed, or just slow? :D
13:38.12_sushi_BRL-CAD doesn't have any thread primitive
13:38.25_sushi_``Erik: well it renders horribly slow
13:38.41_sushi_Just because there are 20,000 non-overlapping slicesw
13:38.51``Erikohyeah, your freaky cut case
13:38.53``Erikthat was weird
13:38.56_sushi_and one cut through all that
13:39.03_sushi_with the cut it's 216 times slower as with
13:39.05``Erikjohn added the -k to make that go fast for you
13:39.19_sushi_We already talked about this with Sean and he said there is nothing that can be done against it
13:39.27_sushi_Well - BRL-CAD is still the choise #1 :)
13:39.40_sushi_``Erik: what does the -k do?
13:39.44``Erik(there's something you WON'T see with inventor or solidworks or catia, satisfied, we listen to the "little guy" users ;)
13:39.52``Erikrt -k <cutting plane>
13:39.55_sushi_``Erik: right I agree
13:40.18_sushi_``Erik: maybe I could try to incorporate that into the scripts
13:41.05_sushi_``Erik: right that's what I hate on commercial packages - they are like if you don't like it fuck you you already gave us your money
13:41.13``Erikbut like a bicycle gear would be something like a squat cylinder to make the disc, subtract the hole, subtract one cutout for the link, then use clone or pattern to zip around the edge of the disc, and sub those tooth cylinders, bam, done
13:41.23_sushi_here you don't have to give away any money, get the source code plus a reasonable support
13:41.41_sushi_``Erik: a bicycle cogwheel would be extremely simple I think
13:41.51_sushi_I am not sure how I would do the invloute for an ordinary gear though
13:42.04``Erikcut an arb8 for a sharp tooth
13:42.27``Erikunion two cylinders and cut that comb for a pedal tooth
13:42.52_sushi_but teeth are not cylinders but some complicated math curve called involute aren't they?
13:43.11``Erik<-- dunno, archivist is the gearmaster here :D
13:43.29_sushi_But I think some primitives could be integrated into the program
13:43.32``ErikI stay in the low level guts myself
13:43.37_sushi_But you won't take my code since it's GPL only :)
13:43.53``ErikI thought we had some gpl pieces already
13:43.57_sushi_And Sean said something I would have to transfer the copyright
13:44.06``Erikohhh, yeah
13:44.15_sushi_At least you could link my tool from your homepage
13:44.22``Erikmake a wiki for it
13:44.23``Erik:D
13:44.25_sushi_I think in some jurisdictions this is not even possible
13:44.27``Erikwiki page
13:44.33_sushi_You write something you have the (c) and you can't give it up
13:44.45_sushi_You can licence sublicence but not transfer it's you who made it you have the copyright
13:45.10``Erikyeah, the US isn't like that, and gets really ugly when you start talking things like "work for hire" issues
13:45.41_sushi_Here is the thread tool http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/lib/thread.c
13:45.55_sushi_And here is the hex tool http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/lib/hex.c
13:46.09_sushi_Writing a doc for it would take too much time for me
13:47.21_sushi_There are some random thread tables picked from the Internet and embedded into the program
13:47.40_sushi_It's for metric only, I have no clue about withworth threads
13:47.53``Erikshould probably slap the GPL header on those so'z people know it's gpl
13:48.02_sushi_All I know about them is a) they are used on water pipes, b) they are used on camera and c) they are next to impossible to get here
13:49.16_sushi_``Erik: you want a full GPL header?
13:50.06``ErikI'm just sayin', GPL demands the gpl header on all files under the gpl, no?
13:51.14_sushi_where the fuck do I get this header?
13:51.19_sushi_I am googling and getting just junk!
13:51.35``Erikit's in the gpl license itself
13:52.40_sushi_is unable to find GPL quickjly
13:53.14``Erikhttp://ronja.twibright.com/3d/lib/thread.c
13:53.17``Erikdamnit
13:53.24``Erikhttp://bz.bzflag.bz/~erik/gpl.h
13:53.33``Erikthere ya go, fill in the blanks :)
13:53.40_sushi_thanks youre my savior
13:54.00``Erikhardly, heh :D
13:55.47``ErikSatisfied: BRL-CAD is free, download it and give it a try :) we even have tutorials at http://brlcad.org and a reasonably active channel here :)
13:55.52_sushi_warning: million pointer targets differ from billion others
13:56.12_sushi_And it also rulez
13:57.31_sushi_``Erik: here with header: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/lib/hex.c
13:58.51``Erikheh, *shrug* I don't care too much, was just pointing out one of those non-technical issues that seem to be important these days (unfortunately)
13:59.18_sushi_``Erik: oh I thought it's an obstacle
14:00.23``Eriknah, just advice on protecting yourself :)
14:00.47_sushi_What does a GPL header protect me against?
14:01.13``Erikhm, src/mged/point/ src/other/libpng/ other/tcl/generic/tclDate.c and src/tab/script.c all seem to be GPL'd
14:02.00``Eriksome theoretical protection of your 'intellectual property', and is a way of letting fellow developers know how they can use your code
14:02.09``Erikwithout a header, people might assume it's public domain
14:02.34``Eriksrc/other/libpng/contrib rather
14:02.39_sushi_``Erik: that's maybe in the US, here if you don't have any info then you have to assume it's proprietary
14:03.41``Erik<-- ain't a lawyer, just read that lawyers say it's a good idea to mark your work with copyright info and if necessary, license info *shrug*
14:04.04starseekerhere's a spring subtracted from an rcc http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/thread_test.png
14:04.59_sushi_looks like the thread in which ball bearings run
14:05.09starseekerheh
14:05.13starseekerjust a quick test
14:05.30starseekertries an arb8 cut, just out of curiosity
14:05.51``Eriknerds
14:05.58_sushi_http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/hardware_4.png
14:06.04_sushi_How did you make the spring?
14:06.18``Erikhttp://static.arstechnica.com/2009/02/15/evercrack.jpg  nice
14:07.51starseekerpipe primitive
14:08.02_sushi_how do you make a helix with the pipe primitive?
14:11.19starseekerit's documented in Volume III
14:11.43starseekerI'm working on a procdb to automate it, but it's not done yet
14:12.21starseekerhttp://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/thread_cut.png
14:12.39starseekerdoesn't seem to be incredibly slow, but I don't have 200+ threads either
14:15.14starseeker_sushi_:  Given time, I might be able to duplicate that setup using a pipe, but I don't know that there would be much performance benefit
14:15.42_sushi_And you would get non-metric thread shape
14:16.11_sushi_http://www.mech.uwa.edu.au/DANotes/threads/mechanics/recircBallBIG.jpeg
14:16.54starseekernon-metric?
14:17.03starseekerheh - that's cool
14:17.19starseekertalk about a great candidate for a brlcad model
14:17.50_sushi_starseeker: normal threads don't look like what you've done
14:17.55_sushi_The thread has a different shape
14:18.00starseekersure
14:18.15starseekerwhat I did was a quick test using a spring I happened to have around
14:18.43starseekerI take it you were able to do metric thread?
14:23.49_sushi_It's not exactly metric because it has near sinusoidal shape
14:23.53_sushi_But it looks like metric :)
14:24.16_sushi_metric is V-shape with round ends
14:24.41_sushi_Actually only the convex end is round the concave one is V
14:26.04starseekerit might be possible to do that with some insane combination of existing primitives, but it would be difficult and would almost have to be scripted
14:26.37_sushi_wouldn't it be possible to make a thread primitive?
14:26.53_sushi_Cause a thread is just a stack of slices where the slice rotates
14:27.11_sushi_Therefore a cylinder equation would suggest a rough place where the ray hits
14:27.19starseekerthat's what I'm thinking - pipe indicates it is possible, but meta-primitives like pipe are (geometrically) composed of more simple primitives
14:27.29_sushi_And then some local iteration would give the exact place of the hit
14:27.34starseekera sweep primitive would allow it
14:27.46_sushi_what's a sweep primitive?
14:28.11starseekerbasically a generalization of extrude
14:28.24starseekertake a sketch, and sweep it through 3D space
14:28.25_sushi_if you can sweep along a spiral...
14:28.27starseekerright
14:28.45starseekerrotate would be another subset of sweep
14:29.11_sushi_but this is rotation and translation running at the same time
14:29.25starseekerright - that's why it would take a general sweep primitive
14:29.28starseekerwhich we don't have yet
14:29.52_sushi_you can either sweep a little circle along a spiral
14:30.12_sushi_Or you can sweep a large slightly eccentric circle along a straight line and rotate it in the process
14:30.15starseekerwith sweep, we would sketch the exact profile of the thread, and sweep in a spiral
14:30.24_sushi_Or you can sweep a square and get a funky 4-gang thread
14:30.52starseeker_sushi_:  there's a project - make a sweep primitive :-)
14:30.53_sushi_How would you make a conical thread
14:30.58_sushi_like you have on wood screws>
14:31.10starseekertries to visualize that
14:31.16_sushi_Would be nice if we could at least model everything they have in hardware store
14:31.26_sushi_without choking the system with a $ 0.1 item
14:31.51starseeker_sushi_ thread modeling is not one of our normal use cases
14:31.51_sushi_we have this height field primitive right?
14:32.02starseekerthat's out of date, I believe
14:32.18_sushi_do we have some kind of bump map?
14:32.45_sushi_cause thread is a kind of periodical bump map mapped on a cylinder or cone :)
14:33.10_sushi_Where the parameter is some combination of the position and angle
14:33.15starseeker_sushi_:  If we were going to do it "right", it would be by creating the sweep primitive
14:33.45_sushi_but imagine the system throws a ray and if you have 100 turns it has to test each of them for intersection
14:33.59starseekerit's an optimization problem
14:34.05_sushi_Whereas if you map on surface you calculate approx place of hit and then just reiterate to get the exact one
14:34.33_sushi_there's an interesting electrical component called conical coil
14:34.35starseekerprobably will need to go into the details with brlcad
14:34.39_sushi_Which is a coil wound on a cone :)
14:34.47starseekerpipe can probably do that
14:34.53louipchow does the pipe primitive work?
14:35.06starseekercombinations of cylindars and tori, IIRC
14:35.15louipcisn't it like a psudo primitive? ok
14:35.28starseekerI consider it an example of a metaprimitive
14:35.36louipcso you could expand it to maybe use other shapes other than rcc
14:35.51louipcand you would get the correct shape for what type of thread you want
14:36.07starseekeryou might be able to use the logic behind pipe for such purposes, but it wouldn't be "plug and play"
14:36.19louipclike 60degree, acme, square threads
14:36.24starseekerthat would be a new primitive
14:36.25louipcyeah
14:36.30starseekersweep :-)
14:36.45louipchmm
14:37.29starseekerone of the earlier projects created part of a revolve primitive, as a stepping stone to the general case
14:37.35starseekergsoc project
14:37.49louipcyeah you would need sweep
14:38.15starseekerit would be VERY powerful, given a proper sketch editor
14:38.28louipchehe
14:38.41starseekerours needs a little help, I'm afraid
14:38.55starseekerit does make a bit more sense now that I understand the data structures
14:39.41starseekerIIRC, sweep and revolve of sketches is actually a pretty common paradigm in other cad systems for shape creation
14:39.59starseekerits very general
14:41.26louipcyep, especially for cylindrical stuff
14:41.39starseekerthe advantage of CSG the way we do it is that it constrains the model into representing things with simple geometry.
14:41.40louipclathework
14:42.00starseekerthat has both benefits and limitations
14:42.19starseekeras long as the simple geometric representation is a good approximation, it's better
14:42.27louipcyeah
14:42.32starseekerwhere "good" is defined by the application
14:42.36louipcwell you have to choose the right tool for the application
14:42.44louipcjinx
14:42.47starseekerobviously for precision surface creation, it's not ideal
14:43.11starseekerbut then we don't model too many sports cars ;-)
14:43.49starseekermay be speaking too soon though, given brlcad's new car
14:43.59starseekerOK, time to start getting chores done
14:47.33archivist``Erik, I heard my name :)
14:47.33starseekerNot sure what this paper is or if it is any good, but Figure 10 gives a reasonable example of what a swept primitive looks like:  http://www.unknownroad.com/publications/SweepsTRApril2005.pdf
14:47.33``Erikthere was talk about BRL-CAD's ability to do gears :D
14:47.43starseekerintends to do that
14:47.53starseekerbut must do chores/shopping first
14:47.54archivistmany sorts of gears exist
14:48.07starseekershould make a fun tool :-)
14:48.15archivistand some have the fiddle factors
14:48.24starseekertire all over again :-)
14:49.10``Erikbump map is a visual hack based on normals and exists in shader land... displacement map would be a closer notion, but is still a shader issue, not true geometry
14:50.52``Erikstarseeker: did you see the updated ucw thingy?
15:03.30starseekerthe roman numerals?
15:03.34starseekeryeah, that was cool
15:04.31``Erikwhere you could input? the first one I showed had the input part broken :)
15:04.43starseekeryeah, input worked :-)
15:04.56``Erikokie, now to figure out something 'real' to do to extend my knowledge heh
15:05.03starseeker:-)
15:05.11starseekergets real with laundry :-(
15:05.29``Erikthe guy to look at my door jam is late
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03:14.06``Erik"I'm not an expert, but I did burn down a holiday inn last night!" heh
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03:57.20yukonbobhello, cadheads
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11:22.26d-loMornin all.
11:23.28_sushi_morning
11:25.24d-lohow goes it _sushi_ ?
11:25.41_sushi_fine thanks you?
11:25.53d-lostill waking up :/
12:30.32starseekeris still attempting not to wake up, but reality is setting in...
12:31.55d-lowow... that was pretty 'emo' man... you okay?
12:43.14starseekeremo?
12:43.25starseekerjust isn't a morning person :-)
12:44.10*** join/#brlcad mafm_ (n=mafm@223.Red-83-49-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
12:44.41starseekerd-lo:  thanks for the robotics link, bty - that's some cool stuff
12:46.14d-loheh, yeah, I love that site.  Problem is that my imagination far exceeds my wallet's capacity lol
12:46.24starseekeramen
12:46.31starseekerwhat's emo?
12:48.03starseekerweirded out for a second and thought you said elmo ;-)
12:48.27d-loInternet term.  Basicly anyone who wears their emotions on their sleeves... usually people who are depressed are labeled 'emo' ;)
12:48.34starseekerah :-)
12:49.01d-lobut i can see how a non-morning person could fit that bill... at least untill caffiene consumption.
12:49.23starseekeris not fit for human interaction before 9:30am
12:49.45d-lolol "Interact at your own risk" ?
12:49.54starseekerwouldn't expect d-lo to know about non-morning people ;-)
12:50.13starseekerthat would make an awesome t-shirt
12:50.27d-lois a "needs a nap around 1400" person.
12:50.36starseekerah
12:50.38d-lo... lol yes it would now that you mention it.
12:50.47starseekersounds like a thinkgeek product
12:51.07starseekerwe could wear it to some of those more annoying meetings :-)
12:54.10d-loA shirt with "don't ask me, they're in charge" and an arrow pointing right would be funny if we could get EVERYONE at the ccb to wear it.
13:57.56*** join/#brlcad ``Erik_ (n=erik@ftp.brlcad.org)
13:58.25``Erik_weird, can't log in to my home machine :/
14:06.08d-lostrangeness.
14:06.21d-lomore Comcast foo?
14:11.39``Erik_no, it's something muffed up on my box I think
14:12.05``Erik_like getty is screwed up
14:12.31``Erik_"ssh home noninteractivecommand" works fine, but "ssh home /bin/sh" hangs
14:25.35*** join/#brlcad alex_joni (n=juve@emc/board-of-directors/alexjoni)
14:38.35``Erikok, now I've really busted my home machine hehehe
14:39.06*** join/#brlcad alex_joni (n=juve@emc/board-of-directors/alexjoni)
14:41.06d-loheh, what didja do?
14:41.20archivistwonders if the smoke is getting out
14:41.37``Erikrebooted it and it doesn't seem to be coming up, at least not where it should be
14:42.41``Erikhas gotten into the habit of upgrading the system, then letting it keep running with possibly incompatible libraries until something doesn't work, THEN rebooting it for the new kernel... : D
14:44.10archivist:)
14:44.26archivistis a few reboots behind
14:45.01``ErikI wonder if I screwed up the cvs up and accidently pulled -HEAD instead of -STABLE, that'd suck
15:24.01brlcadstarseeker: print statements are crude, but actually/usually not *that* time consuming .. at least any more time consuming than most debugger sessions .. just a lot more tedius
15:27.50brlcad_sushi_: the -k option was written specifically for you to address that cutting plane option, so hope you do use it ;)
15:31.48brlcad_sushi_: and it wouldn't require transfer of copyright, the requirements are pretty much identical to the apache project -- you grant an unlimited perpetual world-wide license on the work, so we can do what we want with it and so can you
15:34.21brlcad_sushi_: basically an implicit version of http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt
15:34.55brlcadstill have to update our wording to fully reflect that, but that's been the approach for a couple years now
15:35.28brlcadbut yeah, gpl is a non-starter -- lgpl, bsd, mit, apache, or other similarly "more free" license is required
15:38.59louipc_sushi_: use wtfpl
15:42.07CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33783 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/points/ (points_parse.y points_scan.l): aha, here be a couple of the lil buggers are that are messing with ohloh stats. these files were missed by the gpl->lgpl conversion over a year ago because of their extension.
15:43.59brlcadnotes src/other/libpng is a red herring, just autotool cruft
15:44.59*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-71.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
15:46.07CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33784 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tab/script.l: yet another lexer file missed during the gpl->lgpl conversion. update.
15:46.23*** join/#brlcad alex_joni (n=juve@emc/board-of-directors/alexjoni)
15:50.32brlcadstarseeker: "dsp" is our 'height field primitive' (which isn't out of date)
15:50.51PrezKennedyhey brlcad! how are you doing?
15:50.55brlcadthe old 'hf' primitive is what you're probably thinking of, but that's an implementation detail
15:54.27brlcadhey PrezKennedy
15:54.40brlcadcatches up with the thread ;)
15:54.57brlcadPrezKennedy: so just a few more lessons eh?  awesome
15:58.26PrezKennedy9 to go!
16:01.31PrezKennedyoh and thanks for getting Mom on Facebook... thanks a lot...
16:01.35*** join/#brlcad alex_joni (n=juve@emc/board-of-directors/alexjoni)
16:05.31starseekerwishes weekend had lasted longer
16:05.55starseekerproposed to girlfriend - surprising how time files under those conditions
16:07.27brlcadhah, outstanding!
16:07.29brlcadcongratulations starseeker
16:07.33louipc:D congrats
16:07.35starseekerthank you :-)
16:08.03Axman6starseeker: i take it she said yes? :)
16:08.08starseekeryep :-)
16:08.27brlcadgood ol' washington and lincoln ;)
16:08.42Axman6hooray :)
16:08.44brlcadpatriotic proposal
16:09.12starseekerwell, Valentine's day actually
16:09.28brlcadah :)
16:09.35starseekerFeb. 14th - needed a good excuse to set up an outing
16:09.46brlcadwas kidding ;)
16:09.52starseekerheh
16:09.56d-logratz!!
16:10.24starseekerwas trying to make it a surprise, and a random outing would have been a dead giveaway
16:10.33Axman6i'm looking forward to proposing to my girlfriend in a few years (we want to finish uni first)
16:10.47Axman6she's fast asleep next to me at the moment
16:11.23starseekeryeah, being done with uni makes things a lot easier
16:11.46starseekerd-lo:  thanks!
16:12.13louipc11:09 -phrik(n=archbot@archlinux/bot/phrik)- Error: HTTP Error 500: Internal Server Error
16:12.17louipcwoops sorry
16:13.05archivistwait till she reads the irc log Axman6
16:13.19``Erikcondolences, I mean, congratulations, starseeker
16:13.22Axman6hmm?
16:13.22d-lolol
16:13.33starseeker``Erik:  heh
16:13.39``Erik:D
16:14.25``Erikstarts pondering lunch
16:16.29PrezKennedyi need to find a girl i can stand first
16:16.30PrezKennedy:)
16:16.43``Erik"rough trick named jim"? *duck* :D
16:16.57*** join/#brlcad alex_joni (n=juve@emc/board-of-directors/alexjoni)
16:17.02``Erik(sorry, drank a whole pot of coffee this morning, I AM CORNHOLIO!)
16:17.03archivists/trick/truck
16:17.59``Erikhttp://www.familyguyquotes.com/characters/brian-quotes-3.html if ya don't get the reference :)
16:18.00PrezKennedyuh oh ``Erik is stealing jokes from Family Guy!
16:18.14PrezKennedyof course i know the reference :)
16:18.22``Eriksome might not :)
16:18.43``Eriktake archivist for example, he may not have access to the same media that we in the civilized world enjoy :D *duck*
16:19.44d-lodid ``Erik just related 'The Family Guy' to civilized society?
16:20.01d-los/related/relate
16:20.03Axman6heh
16:20.03archivisthe is odd that way
16:20.18d-loI think he needs TP for his bunghole.
16:20.47Axman6PrezKennedy: you need a girl like mine. she's beautiful, very intelligent, loves that i'm a geek, and she's a gamer :D
16:21.05PrezKennedysounds good to me
16:21.22archivistew...another lost soul
16:21.45Axman6is not a gamer however, even though he is 19
16:22.04PrezKennedyim a retiring gamer!
16:22.09PrezKennedyslowly retiring...
16:22.15starseekers/retiring/recovering
16:22.53starseekerdoesn't game very much, and hardly at all over the last few years - it takes time away from programming :-)
16:24.33d-lowould be a 110% gamer if RL didn't take all my time ;)
16:24.54d-loas it is, I can barely fit in 20mins of Civ4 a week.
16:25.03starseekernods
16:26.32_sushi_brlcad: OK I read what you wrote
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16:38.10PrezKennedy20 minutes of civ 4? thats like 1 turn... just need 1 more...
16:41.01d-loI know :/  It gets frustrating after a month or so.
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17:43.34``Erikhuh, /usr is full (again)
17:43.50brlcadyeah
17:43.53brlcadworking on it
17:44.17``ErikI'm trashing /usr/src/* and /usr/ports/*
17:44.22``Erikthis machine wont' get any more upgrades, right?
17:44.45brlcadI guess not :)
17:44.56``Erikcan always be re-cvsup'd if so
18:10.33``Erik1.3 gigs free now
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18:30.41Axman6FreeBSD machine?
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19:33.50CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33785 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged/Makefile.am: sort -lines
19:48.36``Erika bsd machine
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21:41.55CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33786 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/metaball.c: quell unused variable warning...
21:49.35CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33787 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bn.h src/libbn/mat.c): Added bn_mat_print_vls().
22:01.01``Erikok, compiled without issue on leopard
22:01.01``Erikis starting to think lee was talking pure shit again
22:10.58``Erikhuh, interesting, cannot rotate
22:12.07``Erikae works, but mouse drag does not
22:12.32``Erikmore interesting, I cannot ^z the tk mged O.O
22:12.55``Erik^c fails as well, but the mged terminal responds appropriately
22:13.44``Erikponders blaming starseeker with that tcl/tk upgrade :D
22:14.09starseekeroh no, what broke now
22:14.33starseeker``Erik:  I'm working OK on the Mac so far
22:16.14``Erikcannot rotate with the mouse, cannot ^z or ^c mged from the terminal I launched it in
22:16.19``Erikthis is on osX.5
22:17.13``Erikholding down right click and drag is supposed to be rotate, right? it zooms in if there's no drag and sees a release?
22:17.30``Erikit zooms in on mouse2 down, not mouse2 up
22:17.40starseekercan you run down and show me on my box quick?
22:17.56``Erikno, because I don't have leopard on a machine there, I had to go somewhere I did have leopard
22:18.07``ErikI can show you tomorrow, but it won't be a networkable box
22:18.11starseekerok
22:18.15starseekergrrrr
22:18.18starseekerworks great here
22:18.20``Erikif'n ya grok
22:18.26``Erikyour'e on 10.4, not 10.5 :)
22:18.45``Eriklee was grumping about the mass of failures on 10.5 during lunch, so I excused myself for 3 hours of interrogating that :D
22:19.35``Erikgrabs and older version to see if issue exists there
22:19.42``Erikgoogles for how to use this stupid svn program
22:22.02``Erikfekkit, I'll grab a tarball
22:30.53starseekergrowls - apparently the USGS has all but abandoned DEM and moved onto other formats
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090218

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090218

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01:19.07CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33788 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/spring.c: Start figuring out what's needed to model the various types of springs likely to be of interest in this tool.
03:20.29yukonbobstarseeker: are you going to be modelling leaf springs, airsprings, coilsprings, torsion springs, etc, .etc?
03:39.15CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33789 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am tkhtml3/Makefile.in): uninstall refchan.n and tkhtml.n to try to fix distcheck. looks like tk renamed reflectedchan.n to refchan.n which raises question of why tk's uninstall logic is in tcl's Makefile.am.
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04:40.55starseekeryukonbob:  We'll see :-)
04:41.16starseekeryukonbob:  I'll probably rename it to coil, which is the current focus
04:44.22yukonbobnods...
04:44.31yukonbobthat what I guessed would happen :)
04:44.44yukonbobit's what most people think of when one says "spring"
04:51.44starseekeryukonbob:  why, do you need the other kinds? ;-)
04:53.05yukonbob...just being pedantic :)
04:53.31yukonbobI thought you'd appreciate the precision, given the product you're working on :)
05:11.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33790 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkhtml3/Makefile.in: missing semi
05:14.35starseekerheh
05:14.53starseekerIt probably would be possible to cover a lot of types, and that might be a nice add-on to have at some point
05:21.03*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedyJR (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
06:06.44CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33791 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpkg/pkg.c: isolate the private/internal implementation-specific static functions from the public api calls
06:10.12CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33792 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpkg/pkg.c: style and ws consistency cleanup
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06:28.54*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.2 is posted (20080207)
06:30.51CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33793 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpkg/pkg.c: big reordering cleanup to avoid forward decls. doxygenify comments, use snprintf on errbuffrage.
06:33.51CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33794 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpkg/pkg.c: last bit of reordering for a few remaining forward decls
07:22.12CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33795 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/pkg.h src/libpkg/pkg.c): use size_t where lengths are expected since c89 provides for it (alas not ssize_t though). quell Wall warnings too while we're at it.
07:24.46CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33796 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/deprecation.txt: note that pkg now uses size_t just in case even though it's a minor castable change
07:35.11*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
07:35.11*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.2 is posted (20080207)
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07:39.28*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.2 is posted (20080207)
07:39.47CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33798 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/Makefile.am: regression rule depends on Makefile?
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07:44.21*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.2 is posted (20080207)
08:13.20CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33800 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: reword the line item about bob fixing the mged font preferences menu so it can be annotated that the fix relates to sf bug 2596276 (can't change fonts) by victor cericole. this change reportedly fixes that problem.
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13:17.41CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33801 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/spring.c: OK, need to re-work the logic so number of turns = 1 actually generates one full turn. Committing an example of how to do n=1 turns, for later generalization.
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15:33.08starseekerfinishes dealing with the insurance folk and heads out
15:41.09CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33802 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/gqa.c: Added calculations for centroids and moments of inertia.
15:54.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33803 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/ (15 files in 5 dirs): Many objects are now Serializable
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21:21.28CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33804 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/gqa.c: Should not be freeing o_name (i.e. not dynamically allocated).
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22:37.03CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33805 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/gqa.c: calloc is count,size not size,count. conceptually the same, but can mess with the allocator book-keeping.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090219

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090219

00:16.38*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@mail.fbcelkhart.org)
01:18.58``Erikdamnit
01:19.06starseekereh?
01:20.59``Erikmy car broke down at the gate
01:21.05``ErikI just got home
01:21.10starseekerthat SUCKS
01:21.16starseekerwhich gate?
01:21.18``Erikand tomorrow, I get to walk to the dealership to get them to fix it
01:21.20``Erikthe 22 gate
01:21.24starseekeryuck
01:21.41``Erikhad it towed to the dealership right by my house *sigh*
01:22.17``Erikis starting to ponder aaa
01:22.27``ErikI think the alternator went out
01:22.37starseekerow
01:23.31``Erikwhile it's in, I think I'll have them do the front brakes and see if I can get the faulty ESC replaced under warrantee
01:24.17``Erikbut tonight, I have some DRINKIN' to do
01:24.59starseekerwon't that preclude functioning tomorrow?
01:25.02``Erikhuh, remanufactured alternator is 200-250
01:25.20``Erikno, I tend to function fairly well
01:25.35``Erikhell, if I show up to work on time, that means I was drinking the night before... for some reason, I wake up early and ready to go
01:26.19``Erikgerman, irish and scottish genes, catholic upbringing... :D
01:26.37starseekerah :-)
01:26.39``Eriknot enough native american to slow me down on that
01:30.07starseekerfeels sympathy for ``Erik's liver
01:30.20starseeker<wince>
01:32.28starseekerbrlcad:  If search's results are to be used by other commands, should there be an output option that builds a bu_list of matches?  What's a good way to do "data exchange" on that?
01:33.33starseekerglares at clock and decides to get outta here, bbl
01:37.10``Eriktry not to lose an alternator :D
02:17.10Dr_PhreakensteinErik; geico includes roadside assistance standard
02:17.40``Erikallstate wants to charge for it
02:18.25Dr_Phreakensteinplus, you can save 10-15% in just 15 minutes by calling..
02:18.55Dr_Phreakensteinbut seriously, they are a great company
02:19.08Dr_Phreakensteinmy wife had a wreck, her fault...
02:19.20Dr_Phreakensteinthey took care of everything, no hassle
02:27.57*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
02:27.57*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.2 is posted (20080207)
02:30.01Dr_Phreakensteinunderstand
02:43.07yukonbobhello cadheads
02:50.11Dr_Phreakensteinhello yukonbob
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04:05.54``Erikbleh
04:53.48brlcadstarseeker: yep, I mentioned having a list option at some point .. actually being in ged helps because you could make a generic output handler that is wraps obtaining the result in some programmatic form
04:57.34brlcaddon't know if bob got that far in the ged struct, but the idea was to modify the commands to perform something like ged_log that would either append to the result_str or bu_log or call a callback handler depending on the ged struct
05:00.50brlcadthen you'd have make some callback that does whatever you want (like fill a bu_list with bu_vls results) for your application
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08:16.59CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33806 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/gqa.c: changed to classical C syntax
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11:11.42d-lo``Erik: bummer... you might wanna consider replacing the battery at the same time as the alternator... a failure of one tends to damage the other...
11:13.00d-louses gieco, but has respect for allstate... they took care of my wife (well, 'to be' wife at the time) when she had an accident
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13:52.32CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33807 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/pkg.h src/libpkg/pkg.c): pkg is a good library to start with. refactor the API documentation out of the implementation file into the header. need to get doxygen running again in order to also add the groups/categories and section descriptions.
13:56.02CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33808 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/generic/ (tcl.h tclDecls.h): quell shadow warnings on index
13:58.57CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33809 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpkg/tpkg.c: quell all extra warnings
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14:07.51CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33810 10/brlcad/trunk/include/pkg.h: brevity consistency
14:08.04PrezKennedyi hate bittorrent so much
14:22.06CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33811 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpkg/pkg.c: quell all the additional warnings minus conversion warnings that can't be quelled due to the short int prototype
14:22.41louipcPrezKennedy: the protocol?
14:24.45``Erikno, he hates that my new hobby is taking bittorrent movies, editing them so images of "goatse" and "lemonparty" show up in various places, and redistributing them :D *duck*
14:24.59brlcadpaid extra to get roadside assistance with geico .. no longer have that on my policy though
14:25.02louipchahah!
14:25.32starseeker``Erik:  congratulations on the most useless hobby I've ever heard of
14:25.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33812 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac:
14:25.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: -Wconversion is rather useless since it's mostly for supporting non-ansi
14:25.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: compilation where you often don't have a prototype and end up with default
14:25.38CIA-40BRL-CAD: parameter types. as a warning category, though, this just causes a lot of
14:25.39``Erik</joke>
14:25.40CIA-40BRL-CAD: unquellable warnings where shorts are used in a prototype. since they'd be
14:25.40``Erik:D
14:25.42CIA-40BRL-CAD: passed as (int), they flag a warning but are completely correct as-is so remove
14:25.44CIA-40BRL-CAD: -Wconversion
14:25.45louipcthat's an awesome hobby
14:26.28starseekereven shooting tin cans in the backyard at least builds skills (well, OK, depending on intoxication levels...)
14:26.33louipcI imagine working at a tv station and doing that
14:26.41louipc:D
14:26.44``ErikI d'no, I called the bmw roadside assistance, even though I didn't have membership, they charged me a straight $120 for "getting shit taken care of" (towed to the dealership and dropped off at home), gotta wonder what the rate of requiring that service is to make it worth the cost
14:27.13starseekerlouipc:  Was that you with the porno clip in the Arizona station on superbowl day (or whenever that was?)
14:27.15brlcad``Erik: if you're up for it and didn't see the notice already, there's a libpng update worth getting..
14:27.18PrezKennedylouipc, no -- i hate when people who use it max out the connection and prevent everything else from working correctly
14:27.19``Erikand this is the first time in my life I've ever needed to be towed or help or anything
14:27.27brlcadreally?
14:27.30brlcadthat's messed up :)
14:27.35``Erikuhm, yeah, probably zlib, too
14:27.53louipcPrezKennedy: hah ok
14:27.58``Erikoh, that superbowl thing was amusing, but it was a lame porn clip to interject
14:28.22louipcstarseeker: I wish I could take credit
14:29.32``Eriknot sure if I should bother with upgrading libpng right now or see if I can track out the weird maus behavior on leopard
14:29.41``Erikor dick with more adrt/isst/etc shit
14:29.53``Erikbit annoyed that lee is calling his thing isst now :/
14:30.10PrezKennedy[p]isst
14:34.55CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33813 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Mention nmg_fix_normals. It works, but is not registered in $mged_cmds yet (so no tab completion).
14:40.22brlcad``Erik: only want you'll be able to counter that is by making isst work again on people's desks..
14:42.01brlcaddocument it with a little tutorial, make it "just work", yada yada
14:45.37brlcad``Erik: also src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl  <-- that's where it's missing for tab-completion
14:46.11brlcadmged_cmds expands off of the ? command, the ? command expands off of the mged_help_data array
14:46.14``Erikhm, coulda sworn I had put it in there at some point and it didn't work
14:46.29brlcadleaves the rest as an exercise to the reader
14:47.23``Erikonce isst gets the mysql stuff ripped out and the network crap bypassed, it'll "just work" :/ *sigh*
14:48.08archivistmysql suph should be inserted not ripped out :)
14:49.03``Erikmysql is a pile, postgres is far superior :D and for simply holding triangles, the kinda database that shoulda been used is called a "file"
14:49.06``Erik:D
14:49.08brlcadarchivist: you think a simple interactive 3D viewer should need a mysql database in order to run?
14:49.19starseekerwinces
14:49.39archivistbrlcad, no
14:50.02brlcadhence the need to rip it out ;)
14:50.31archivistbut I am biased to mysql :)
14:50.54d-lobias != speed || functionality :P
14:51.22archivistspeed with good design in databases
14:51.28``Eriklately, I've been kinda thinking that the entire sql rdbms notion is fail
14:51.43``Erikthat's the thing, mysql is fast in meaningless microbenchmarks, but pigassed slow on REAL queries
14:52.02``Erikbecause you have to go through stupid hoops like temporary tables for subselect and more complicated joins
14:52.13archivistfix the sql
14:52.30archivistrewrite subquries as joins
14:53.39``Erikhehehe, but correct and well designed sql involves subqueries and nontrivial joins, which mysql fails at :D and sometimes you see where a mysql user has used another database and doens't use, y'know, 95% of sql's performance dealies because, well, mysql doesn't support them :D and you start seeing postgres, oracle, sybase, ingress, etc running far crappier than they should
14:54.37brlcadmm, dragonfly bsd 2.2 is out
14:54.46``Erikthinks he's going to go with a blob in the .g files with a list of regions and a hash to store the kd-tree
14:55.19``Erikthen the regions are walked and rehashed on load to see if the kd-tree needs to be regenerated
14:55.20archivistsubqueries are a crutch some like to rely of to make the sql readable
14:56.06``Erikthat way, straight bots are the core of data used
14:57.07brlcadbinary objects in the db with attr hashes on the objects to point to those binobj's?, should work pretty well
14:59.00``Erikyeah, and hashing the vertex data in the bot itself, so if it changes, I know to regenerate/invalidate the kd-tree
14:59.28``Erikhm, *ponders a hash function in the primitive table*
15:05.54brlcadgah, don't sully the object space
15:06.06brlcadjust use attrs
15:06.20brlcadheck, attrs on binobj's
15:06.44brlcadactually, don't even need attrs, hm
15:07.17brlcadjust make the object name be an md5 hash, mark it invisible
15:08.03brlcaderh, yeah, still need the attr on the bot, but still pretty simple
15:08.33brlcadno infrastructure needed and it's not even abusing anything :)
15:11.40``Erikhm, I was thinking about packing the names and hashsums into the blob
15:12.38``ErikI might do some experiments to see if caching the kd-tree is necessary, if I can get it as fast as, say, librt's prep, then I won't even have to bother
15:12.49``Erikbut reading bots from a .g is an important step
15:13.06brlcadyeah
15:13.38``Erikoh, compile is done, now I can start modifying stuff heh
15:14.36brlcadusing just one blob wouldn't pass the concatenate .g test, per-object blobs would though
15:15.01``Erikhm, but the tree is an acceleration structure for many regions
15:15.08brlcadbut no complaints from me -- caching should be worried about after everything else is done, even if it is dog-slow
15:15.10``Erikand I don't believe the trees can be merged trivially
15:15.37``Erikhehehe iirc, the, uh, complicated test vehicle took days
15:16.01``Erikbut that's a piece of geometry that most cad systems simply cannot load :)
15:16.19brlcadthen it can be the first optimization, but you still don't need it just yet
15:16.35``Erikyeah, I think my first case for that will be mossworld
15:17.04``Erikthen mebbe the m35 for fun, then probably the t62, then up to modern crap
15:17.28brlcadalso, iirc, the one that took days was after using the long-pass kd-tree prep -- aren't there two, a short that sucks and a long that sucks slightly less?
15:18.31``Erikyeah
15:18.42``Erikthe 'fast' one is used for the cut view
15:18.52``Erikand both are single threaded iirc
15:19.23``Erikmoving them to multithreaded simd beasties and going for convergance is probably going to be on my list of shit to do
15:19.41``Erikof course, ed is pushing to "just make it work and move on to other stuff"
15:19.43brlcadpeople would probably be just as happy to see a progress bar if it worked over having cached hashes later ;)
15:20.07``Erikyeah, that's one thing I have been doing to the private part, more status information
15:20.59``Erikif you wanna check it out, the database is on the bsd opteron, the svn is on the bsd webserver as isst, make sure "HAX" is defined, that ignores all user authentication
15:21.19``Erikbeen working on osX.4 and fbsd, should work dandy either place
15:21.20``Erik:)
15:21.29brlcadI've tried to check it out thrice :)
15:21.41``Erikreally? co isnt' working?
15:21.52``Erikor do you mean "check it out" as in look at it?
15:22.35brlcadnah, I just get side-tracked looking through the code instead of trying to run it
15:23.01brlcadas in look at it
15:23.26brlcadget the viewer to actually show me some g'damn geometry in all spinny clicky goodness
15:23.45``Erikit's doable now
15:24.05``ErikI think I made a lot of progress the last few months in merging the branches and getting it all portable and shit
15:24.11brlcadthat's why I mentioned a tutorial/doc -- sans simple tutorial, it's gonna be nearly useless to mortal users :)
15:24.40``Erikyeah
15:24.54brlcadso latest isn't in cad repo?
15:24.56``Erikthe current hot plate item on that is to make the gui part able to run solo
15:25.00``Erikit is
15:25.11``Erikwell
15:25.12``Erikit's split
15:25.27brlcadthen "svn is on the bsd webserver as isst" would matter for what?
15:25.28``Erikand this is pissing me off, and I got the TL to go yell at the BC for me, but
15:25.59brlcadnon-public features?  I don't care to test those out
15:26.01``Erikadrt_master and adrt_slave are the drivers, those are on sourceforge. The gui component is on our webserver, because it hasn't been ok'd for public elease
15:26.05brlcadI want to see moss-world spinning
15:26.34brlcado.O
15:26.56``Erikwe went to BC and said "hey, this is crippling development, can we just shove this out there to make things all good?" and she was not understanding why we'd do that when it isn't even on peoples desktops et
15:26.58``Erikyet
15:27.13``ErikI don't think she understood that it was slowing development by holding that piece private... and her brain is still in 247
15:27.49brlcadso you asked someone that makes decisions based on fear if you could do something they don't understand and they said no
15:27.52brlcadI'm shocked
15:28.10``Erikit's all gtk+, and I didn't wan tot inflict that on the svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/ repo, I was going to make a toplevel, like rtcmp
15:29.11brlcadyeah, gtk+ would be bad
15:29.27``ErikI think gtk would be good, myself... get rid of that effin' tk crap :D
15:29.35brlcadthe original simple gui version was better than the agar and gtk crap
15:29.38``Erikbut *shrug* might not be a popular sentimate
15:30.04``ErikI'm moving code out of the gui piece and into the libraries as much as possible, hopefully the gui will become a very trivial veneer
15:30.50``ErikI want to have all the networking ops as simple function calls with structs instead of this manual packing/unpacking on both ends
15:31.53``Eriksendop;senddata1;senddata2 -> struct thang { op, data1, data2 } ; sendit(thang)
15:32.36brlcadhm, that doesn't sound like a good idea to me (screwing with the net before the rest is done)..
15:33.06brlcadthe net isn't the problem, maybe not clean but not the problem
15:33.09``Erikheh, been doing it, that's how I've been getting functionality back
15:33.12``Erikno, the net is the problem
15:33.25``Erikthe protocols were not synchronized with the version I got
15:33.29``Erikit just didn't work
15:33.56brlcadi mean the way it does what it does
15:33.57``ErikI've been figuring out what was supposed to be passed and rebuilding them to gain functionality back
15:34.15``Erikand it's a huge hassle, because it's manual and piecewise, spread through various areas
15:34.16brlcadnot the actual protocol and packing use
15:34.16``Erik:)
15:34.33``Erikthe protocol and packing was broken (still is, that's why split isn't working)
15:34.47brlcadi get that
15:35.12``Erik*shrug* my next step is actually to avoid all the netowrking
15:35.25``Erikand have a single binary that "just works"
15:35.31``Erikno distributed aspect
15:36.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33814 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: add in-editor help for nmg_fix_normals. This also makes tab completion work for this command.
15:36.36brlcadthat sounds like too many changes at once to me, make things (even more) unstable as all hell, hard to fix bugs
15:36.59``Erik"start adrt_master, then start adrt_slave and connect it to the master, then start isst and connect to the master" is too many steps
15:37.03brlcadi'd think patching the existing net would be much faster in the long run even if the goal is to eventually rip out the net
15:37.09``Erik*shrug* sledgehammer remodeling, man
15:37.43brlcadby the time you're done sledgehammaring and rebuilding, nobody will be left waiting to move into the building
15:37.48``Erikheh
15:38.00``Erikwell, I figure it'll take like 3 days to make it work without the networking
15:38.09brlcadriiight
15:38.22brlcadhow much money you got :)
15:38.22``Erikand so far, it's taken more than 3 days to track down and fix each protocol transaction
15:38.38``Erikuhm, not enough, and they're taking more to fix my car :D
15:38.46``Erik3 uninterrupted dedicated days
15:39.02``Erikthis nmg_fix_normal thing kinda derailed me
15:39.03brlcadso two weeks
15:39.09``Erikmebbe
15:39.26``Erikwhich is probably how long it'd take to get split view 'just working' over teh network
15:39.44brlcadscrew split view, seriously
15:39.50brlcadat least for now
15:39.58``Erikthat's the part that ed is hammering me on
15:40.10brlcadthe db is the biggest problem
15:40.17``Erikhm
15:40.19``Erik*shrug*
15:40.28brlcadI can't use it without a db, that's sorta a huge problem
15:40.39``Erikyou have one at the office, but I agree
15:41.20``ErikI was starting to build it up so you could shoot geometry across the network into the system, so'z the client was responsible for loading geometry
15:41.22brlcadyes, but users are in that same boat -- they don't have a db or at least experience with using one with that tool
15:41.36``Erikhm
15:41.49brlcadthey same that works public makes it work internal -- run X, Y, and Z, and you'll have spinning tank
15:41.54``Erikand since the code isn't in the sf repo, I can't chekc it out here ;D hehe
15:43.16``Erikputting it all into a signle binary would make a lot of the ugly of dealing with it go away
15:43.36``Erikdebugging 3 networked programs (which don't clean up nicely) is a pain :) *shrug*
15:43.44brlcad"start adrt_master, then start adrt_slave and connect it to the master, then start isst and connect to the master" would work great if that really was all there was to it, but there's the g-adrt data conversion, insertion into the db, config of tools to use db, etc
15:44.46``Erikthe g-adrt.c program does the database insertion now
15:45.01brlcadheck, "adrt_master && adrt_slave -m localhost && isst -c localhost" ;)
15:45.46``Erikmore like gdb adrt_master, run -v, new terminal, gdb adrt_slave, run localhost, gdb isst, run :D
15:46.40``Erikmeh, jawjacking is fun and all, but it's time to code :D
15:46.42brlcader, actually, "adrt_master moss.g moss && isst -c localhost" would be trivial, make adrt_master exec an adrt_slave if none are attached
15:47.31brlcadthen one more exec in isst to system() a master and that's a one-command step ;)
15:48.33``Eriksystem is evil
15:48.43``Erikexeclp() if your'e going down that road, yo
15:49.35``ErikI d'no, my thought is that if I bypass the networking code in the gui and just call the functions instead, that'd make the chain far simpler and easier/quicker to hack on
15:57.14CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33815 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtienet/ (Makefile.am load.c load.h load_g.c): break future .g loading into a seperate file.
16:05.55``Erikheh, shoulda taken my laptop to the dealership, they have one of those coffee machines where you put a little cartridge in for a cup of coffee, and they had some good stuff in their selection
16:10.29``Erikhm, being an svn noob... how deadly of a sin is it to create a temporary file in the repo, with intent to merge most of it into another (and throw away the rest) down the road?
16:11.14``Erikoh, uh, uhhhhhhh shit, oh shit
16:11.25``ErikI can't log into the irix machine
16:39.49CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33816 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtienet/load_MySQL.c: move contents of g-adrt.c into the lib
16:39.51``Eriksolved
17:09.52``Erikwtf
17:10.20``Erikok, this libpng up will not be trivial.
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18:10.48brlcadit's not a sin with svn
18:11.28brlcadit'll track up in the repo as a file that had a short life and presuming you remove it the same time that you merge it, the actions will be associated with each other as one changeset
18:13.19brlcadsvn isn't smart enough to know that these N lines from file X were moved to file Y unless you commit the changes together -- more just change transactions on a file hierarchy
18:14.50``Erikmeh, whatever
18:15.15``ErikI'm just gonna snarf pieces in and move 'em around later
18:16.50brlcadyeah, it's no big deal either way because you can still pull up the change history on a given file and see that it was temporary
18:16.57brlcadit won't leave turds like cvs
18:17.28``ErikAttic/ ftw
18:18.05``Erikshakes fist at twingy for a bit
18:18.51``Erikseriously, mang, this was a sudden drop, but, uh, wtf, this is a fail handoff
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18:51.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33817 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: news2tracker.sh may have a bug or it may have been user error, but someone needs to figure out which and fix the problem.
18:52.35CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33818 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: victor wants inside command to work again with current edit objects.
18:55.02CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33819 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: restore mged mirror command third-arg-as-axis for backwards compatibility -- request from victor.
18:55.50CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33820 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: request to port g_lint to windows
18:57.33CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33821 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: requests from the modeling team for a obl-g importer to match up with our nexporter.
18:58.42CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33822 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: ls -A and/or e -A crash reportedly when trying to look for objects with a given attribute.
19:02.59CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33823 10/brlcad/trunk/include/plot3.h: quell shadow warnings for y1 on mac os x
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19:08.06CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33824 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/xyz-pl.c: quell warnings, style cleanup
19:08.56CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33825 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/yuv-pix.c: need fb.h for fb_common_file_size()
19:10.57CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33826 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/yuv-pix.c: cleanup
19:29.28CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33827 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/wdb.h src/libwdb/constraint.c src/util/pc_test.c): change pc_mk_constraint() to mk_constraint() since it was moved into libwdb, making it consistent with the others. update the pc_test example to use it.
19:30.54CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33828 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: quell log() shadow warning
19:31.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33829 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: quell log() shadow warning
19:34.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33830 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/bitv.c: quell warning
19:40.42CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33831 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (htond.c htonf.c): quell warnings about not handling BU_PDP_ENDIAN. it's intentional, should bomb out or fall through.
19:42.55CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33832 10/brlcad/trunk/src/burst/burst.c: cleanup
20:57.41*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14F4FD.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:02.36*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@208.43.126.195)
21:28.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33833 10/brlcad/trunk/src/burst/ (grid.c plot.c prnt.c vecmath.h): quell warnings and other cleanup
21:30.46CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33834 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/generic/tclIntDecls.h: quell shadow warnings for index and time
21:38.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33835 10/brlcad/trunk/src/canon/ (canon.h canonize.c canonlib.c): quell various warnings
21:38.54CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33836 10/brlcad/trunk/src/canon/ (canonize.c canonlib.c): ws
21:39.20CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33837 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (fb.h fbio.h): quell shadow warnings on width and height
22:07.34*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
22:40.41CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33838 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/gqa.c: Some of the writes to ged_result_str need to be semaphore protected.
22:48.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33839 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/spring.c:
22:48.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: OK, better - can now delete points and get valid coils in .25 turn increments.
22:48.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: The tradeoff (not surprisingly in retrospect) was between number of control
22:48.02CIA-40BRL-CAD: points and increments in which the coil can be deleted while being 'coiled'.
22:48.02CIA-40BRL-CAD: 1/4 of a turn is a decent compromise - it may be more important to have fine
22:48.04CIA-40BRL-CAD: control when defining end sections. Also, number of turns is now accurately
22:48.06CIA-40BRL-CAD: modeled.
23:00.57*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@dhcp-x198w-222.mobile.uci.edu)
23:08.40CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33840 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/spring.c: Start to break things out so multiple routines can add points to the same point list before making the pipe - needed for section support.
23:16.56CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33841 10/brlcad/trunk/src/fb/bw-fb.c: cleanup
23:20.49starseekerbrlcad:  hmm - to do a pipe that coils in or out, it looks like the best pipe can do is to periodically adjust the bend radius further out and do a kind of stepped taper
23:21.18starseekera continuously variable radius is out
23:21.38starseekerwe'd need sweep to really do it right
23:24.32starseekerwould an approximate taper be of any interest/use?
23:25.16louipcpipe threads
23:25.28starseekerthreading is continuous though
23:26.06starseekerwith this, you would have one quarter with radius 300, one with radius 295, one with 290, etc. etc. etc.
23:26.25louipcwere you asking if a tapered helix would be of use?
23:26.48starseekerno, I was asking if the approximation that can be made with the pipe primitive would be worth the effort to set it up
23:27.09louipchmm, not sure
23:28.15starseekerconsidering that pipe ALSO can't do real thread shapes...
23:28.36starseekerit might be ok to have an approximation
23:28.59starseekerbut sweep could do the real deal on both counts, so it might make more sense to wait for sweep
23:29.14louipcyea
23:29.40starseekercoils can be handled with pipe, but that's approaching the limits of the primitive
23:30.11starseekerlooks at the clock, winces, and decides to head back to the ranch...
23:31.03louipcI can imagine that it would become obsolete when another metaprimitive that uses sweeps and can do real thread shapes comes about
23:31.42louipcwell, mostly..
23:36.13``Erikheh
23:36.26``Erikpipe is already a meta, it just creates torii and rcc's
23:36.40``Erikthus the weird abitrary limitations
23:39.01*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@dhcp-x198w-222.mobile.uci.edu)
23:49.54CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33842 10/brlcad/trunk/src/fb/ (13 files): quell warnings
23:52.59CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33843 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/generic/ (tclInt.h tclIntDecls.h tclIntPlatDecls.h): shadow quellage
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090220

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090220

00:14.12brlcadgah, drat
00:14.28brlcadstarseeker: tcl upgrade is still missing something, maybe in the init.tcl script
00:15.08brlcadregress test is failing on the fastgen test with a Tcl_Init error Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following directories...
00:15.31brlcadhm, actually all the mged tests fail with the same error
00:15.36brlcad(on mac 10.4)
00:16.02Twingyo.O
00:18.00*** join/#brlcad smurfette (n=Pandora@c-69-242-189-29.hsd1.mo.comcast.net)
00:18.11brlcadstarseeker: the failure is on an uninstalled build -- the auto_path is missing the source search directories which I believe is a mod to our bundled sources
00:38.51starseekerok, I'll see if I can find it
00:41.11starseekerrealizes he's probably going to have to do a diff on the old tree vs. the default tarball
00:41.14starseekerargh
00:50.24brlcadsvn log the dir, there aren't that many changes
00:50.59starseekeris it an atomic change or was it rolled in as part of an update?
00:56.49starseekeroh, the unix/Makefile.in?
01:08.04CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33844 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/unix/Makefile.in: Add back in unix Makefile.in changes
02:33.53starseekertries to figure out where auto_path is getting /usr/lib
02:49.48starseekeroh, it's sucking in my system TCLLIBPATH
02:59.30*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-71.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
03:04.12starseekerblinks
03:04.24starseekerthe failing line is:  $this configure -menu $itk_component(menubar)
03:04.41starseeker$this contains ::.archer0
04:44.49starseekerah, ding nabbit - I forgot my list of National Archive stuff at work
04:45.16starseekerwill have to go in on monday
05:04.18starseekerah, nuts
05:04.33starseekerme remembers regression testing currently needs an in-tree build and starts over
05:17.22starseekerah HAH
05:17.38starseekerdidn't look at the auto_path closely enough
05:18.56starseekerhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m5ffe7078
05:19.08starseekersomehow, /usr/lib/* stuff got sucked in
05:19.41starseekeranybody else tried archer with a recent svn checkout built on a machine with system tcl/tk/itcl/itk already installed?
05:19.55starseekerbut using local tcl/tk/itcl/itk for brlcad?
05:35.35starseekereyes libtclcad's tclcad_auto_path
08:48.36*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@84-72-93-63.dclient.hispeed.ch)
10:00.44alex_jonihow would one go on with converting a mesh to a solid?
11:48.26d-loalex_joni: You would have to enclose the mesh or, if its easier, extrude it out into a solid.
11:48.48alex_jonid-lo: I think the mesh is closed
11:49.44d-loalex_joni: Well, if its already enclosed, there is a property you can set to make it a solid instead of just a shell.
11:49.47alex_joni(it's a 3D mesh in STL or any other format)
11:50.17d-loGet the mesh into solid edit mode.
11:50.59alex_jonid-lo: downloading brl-cad atm :)
11:51.18alex_joni(7.12.6 win)
11:52.19d-loGood deal! :D
12:01.37d-loMeshes are called BoTs in Brlcad btw.
12:10.43alex_jonid-lo: got a link to a crashcourse in brlcad?
12:10.52alex_jonior.. can I do the stuff I need in Archer?
12:11.49d-loArcher and BRLCAD are very similar.  BRLCAD is much more functional whereas Archer is less-so, but much prettier on the User Inferface side of the house.
12:12.02d-loBoth, however, should do what you want to do with BoTs.... maybe
12:12.03alex_joniI did start mged in the past
12:12.20alex_jonihow would I go on with importing a STL ?
12:12.21d-lohttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Documentation
12:13.12d-lopage 21 of this pdf:
12:13.16d-lohttp://brlcad.org/w/images/6/66/Converting_Geometry.pdf
12:13.26d-loshows the stl-g conversion steps.
12:13.31alex_jonicoo
12:14.00d-loIt is common practice to try several conversion paths if the initial try doesn't work.
12:14.38d-loaka if stl->g path doesn't work, load the stl file into pro/E or Unigraphics and export a DXF... then try the dxf -> g
12:15.12d-loI have used Blender on occasion to convert files to .dxf and use the dxf->g converter....
12:15.30d-lohow large is the stl file you are talking about?
12:15.54alex_jonihang on.. just figured out I have only obj's
12:15.58alex_joniconverting them to STL now
12:16.00alex_joni< 2MB
12:16.32alex_joni100k for the STL
12:16.45d-look, no ginormous files then.
12:16.59alex_joni(not at this point ;)
12:17.04alex_joniI have some 40M ones
12:17.07alex_jonibut not for now
12:17.18alex_joniSTL needs to be ASCII?
12:17.34alex_jonin/m -b does the trick
12:17.41d-lothere were some recent reports of dxf files acting rather strange once the file size approaches 1.5 gigs...
12:17.45alex_joniUsing solid name: s.stl
12:17.45alex_joni2100 facets
12:17.46alex_joniMaking region (r.stl)
12:17.58d-losounds like its working :)
12:18.01alex_jonid-lo: ROFL :)
12:18.05alex_joni1.5gig :)
12:18.39alex_joniok, the .g opened in archer
12:18.52alex_joniI have a tree on the left (all->r.stl->s.stl)
12:19.19d-losounds like it worked
12:19.53alex_jonistupid question.. is there a way to see it?
12:20.03alex_jonior should I raytrace it?
12:20.32*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@223.Red-83-49-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
12:20.42mafmhi
12:21.40d-loraytracing should work
12:21.43d-loHi mafm!
12:33.56*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
12:38.34alex_joni14:15 < d-lo> there were some recent reports of dxf files acting rather strange
12:38.34alex_joni<PROTECTED>
12:38.43alex_jonioops.. wrong paste :/
12:42.23alex_jonid-lo: can you check if this is ok? http://eneas.juve.ro/~juve/brlcad/s2.g
12:44.45d-loLooks good so far... what did you want me to check>
12:44.46d-lo?
12:46.00alex_joniif there is anything there
12:46.09alex_joniI can't seem to get it to display or raytrace anything
12:46.24alex_joniahhh... found it ;)
12:46.33alex_jonineed to right-click on s.stl and enable the view
12:46.45d-loOkay, well i found a problem.
12:46.54d-lothe 'bolt holes' on the base are an issue.
12:47.24d-lothey are supposed to be a subtraction from the main bot, but instead, they are *part* of the main bot.... thus they are confusing the raytracer.
12:47.42alex_jonid-lo: I don't really care about the holes ;)
12:47.53alex_joniI need to weld the subparts, so the holes are not interesting ..
12:47.54d-loThey should be removed or replaced.
12:48.02alex_joniI see
12:48.09d-lowell, they holes are making the geometry invalid.
12:48.40d-lojust do a raytrace looking down into the hole from the top and then up from the bottom.... its a magic 'hole' :)
12:49.58d-loSince they were supposed to be a subtraction, the holes are 'mini-bots' in themselves, so they should be seperate solids.  Since they aren't, there are two solids existing in one and have overlapping faces.
12:50.35d-lothe raytracer determins solidity by the amount of faces hit along the path of a ray (1st = in, 2nd = out, 3rd = in, etc)
12:51.03d-loso when there are two faces overlapping, you get the first two hits immediately
12:51.28d-loand trick the raytracer into thinking its exited the solid, when, in reality, its inside it.
12:51.50d-loNow, this may not matter to your needs, but it will make the raytraced pictures inaccurate.
12:52.27alex_joniI saw that
12:53.25d-loLooks like the same phenominon is happening on the top with those 4 (or 8) cyls
12:54.23d-loI have some homebrewed tools that can eliminate the boltholes and those cyls very quickly if you want me to.  Just need an email addy to send the file back when I am done.
12:54.49alex_jonid-lo: I have about 10 of these files, but I don't think the bother is worth it :)
12:55.04alex_joniif I can convert it to a solid (even if it looks funny around those holes), I'm happy
12:55.34alex_joninow.. you said there is a flag I can change so I can convert it from g to some other solid format?
12:55.45d-loalrighty.  Just noticed that the smaething is happening in the middle with those tab thingys about halfway up
12:56.04d-loJust curious, why do you need it 'solid' ?
12:56.07alex_joniI notice in attributes it says"
12:56.18alex_joni"This is a solid object (not just a surface)"
12:56.59*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.141)
12:59.27d-loI believe thats the setting I was talking about.. my desktop is chewing on optimizing your BoT... when its done I will look at that attr.
13:00.31d-lowhere did you see that message>?
13:02.44alex_joniin archer under advanced
13:02.57alex_joniI switched to mode Advanced
13:03.03alex_joniand I have an attributes tab on the right
13:03.09starseekerfyi, Archer is experimental
13:03.20starseekermged is still the "workhorse" at the moment
13:03.42alex_jonistarseeker: I know that.. a bit too much to chew on atm though
13:03.51starseekerah :-)
13:04.28d-loI pulled out those geometric flaws and reoptimized the bot.  (got the vertex count down by over 65% ;) )
13:04.47d-lobut I am seeing some issues with those triangled shape thingies in the middle.
13:04.51d-loWhat is this btw?
13:07.02alex_jonid-lo: it's a support thingie from a factory
13:07.19alex_joniside wall support
13:07.52alex_joniyou asked earlier why I need a solid, I need to import it (an ACIS sat file) into a robot programming and simulation package..
13:08.44d-loCool... well, those bolt holes are going to mess with your 'Solidity'
13:09.03d-loif you need 100% prime cut Geometry, you will need to get rid of those flaws.
13:09.27alex_joniI see that g-iges does something, and converts 1 solid to NMG's before exporting to IGES (according to the log)
13:10.34*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-71.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
13:11.04d-lothat sounds about right.
13:11.47alex_jonibut trying to import it in another app it fails on the iges format
13:15.19alex_joniI don't suppose there's an g-acis hidden somewhere?
13:15.21alex_jonior g-step ?
13:18.42alex_jonid-lo: http://eneas.juve.ro/~juve/brlcad/s32.g (this one should be without the holes)
13:23.23d-loalex_joni: No, no g-acis nor g-step.  Do you have another application that could be used as middleman for the conversion?
13:25.11alex_joniyeah, that's what I'm trying with IGES
13:25.37alex_joni(using Alibre which I have here, but i get "Object reference not set to an instance of an object." - whatever that might mean
13:26.16d-loOkay, took a look at s32.g and it looks 100% valid.
13:26.46d-losince its already a BoT, you might try g-dxf, then dxf->step or dxf->acis
13:28.32alex_joniis dxf 3D?
13:28.45alex_joni(the dxf that g-dxf writes I mean)
13:29.07*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14DAEE.dip.t-dialin.net)
13:29.52d-loYes, I believe it is.
13:30.00alex_joniit seems so
13:35.40d-loGood deal.  Everything working then?
13:36.38*** join/#brlcad mafm_ (n=mafm@223.Red-83-49-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
13:39.53alex_jonid-lo: nope ;)
13:40.32d-lowhats brokeded?
13:40.32alex_jonid-lo: ACAD doesn't want to open it ..
13:40.42d-loin what format
13:40.43d-lo?
13:40.57alex_jonidxf
13:41.14d-lowhat other formats does ACAD open?
13:41.31alex_joniit says "improper table entry name on line 20"
13:41.53d-lowhats line 20 look like then?  Any illegal characters?
13:42.17alex_jonidxf, dwg, acis, 3ds
13:42.25alex_joni20: r.stl/s.stl
13:42.41alex_joniI tried changing that to a number, then it moves on 4 lines, and complains about a missing table something
13:42.42CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33845 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: Clearing the Tcl auto_path before tclcad_auto_path does its work gets archer up and running with local tcl/tk. Need to check its impact on builds using system tcl/tk
13:43.43d-loyou could try dxf->3ds in Blender :/
13:45.51alex_joniheh, now that would lead a nice conversion path :D
13:46.13alex_jonidxf (mesh) -> obj -> stl -> g -> dxf -> 3ds -> dxf -> acis
13:47.00alex_jonid-lo: thanks for the effort though :) .. I'll probably go with a non-free conversion that creates a solid in ACAD from the mesh
13:47.12starseekerarrrgh, now archer crashes when trying to open a file
13:47.15starseekerhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m28988fe4
13:49.57d-loalex_joni: You can't take the original dxf straight to g using dxf-g?
13:50.57alex_jonid-lo: nope, it seems it does only see 2-3 polylines
13:51.14d-loHrm, where is this dxf coming from?
13:51.29alex_jonisome design studio :)
13:51.49alex_joniit would have been great if they used a SOLID in Acad when they drew it
13:52.03alex_jonithen it would just have worked to export it from Acad, and I would be done with it
13:53.05alex_joniI did notice this when using g-dxf though:
13:53.07alex_jonidb_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/r.stl/s.stl'
13:53.07alex_joninmg_fix_normals: nmg_classify_s_vs_s() failed for shells x103ac48 and x1043a40
13:53.08alex_joni<PROTECTED>
13:53.56d-lostrangeness.
13:54.29alex_jonid-lo: given the conversion path above I'm not _that_ surprised ;)
13:54.54d-lothis is yet another need for a obj-g converter :/
13:57.52alex_jonid-lo: after messing with the dxf I was able to load it in acad
13:58.08alex_joniit's now full of 3DFACES not POLYMESH (like it was initially)
13:58.12alex_jonibut it's still no solid
13:59.27alex_joni(messing meaning hacking the dxf header)
14:01.24d-loHrm, well, you might wanna take a look at the DXF standard... maybe there is something you can edit in the dxf file that will set the objects to solids... then you can forego the whole bloody conversion path all together!
14:04.53archivistreminds me of the days of writing dxf fixing scripts
14:24.05starseekersigh, and RamDebugger still won't run in bwish - after all that it's a different issue
14:24.17starseekercloses down the xterms and heads in to work...
14:31.12*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
14:59.26yukonbobstarseeker: what are you trying to fix w/ RamDebugger?
15:40.35brlcadyay, finally back on-line
15:40.52brlcadarrived home to dead internet service last night, now restored after a two-hour phone call
15:43.11brlcadterminology snafu -- "Archer and BRLCAD are very similar" .. Archer is a component of BRL-CAD, I believe he meant MGED instead of "BRLCAD" .. MGED and Archer are very similar
15:43.18brlcad( alex_joni )
15:45.19brlcadthose external tools that had trouble with dxf weren't ours -- and that 1.5GB limit is almost certainly a 32-bit app trying to read in the entire file in and running out of memory
15:45.31brlcad(at least, running out of 32-bit addressable memory)
15:52.08brlcadalex_joni: also, fwiw -- depending on your version of AutoCAD (and I assume you mean autocad and not a tool from GD specifically called 'ACAD') -- they're even inconsistent on their interpretation of their DXF spec
15:53.23brlcaddxf spec itemizes illegal characters, none of which we use iirc, but then there are some versions of autocad that won't read various other characters (e.g., the slashes)
15:54.29brlcadand there was a long time where there was ambiguity on whether all faces were 4-points or whether 3-point faces (i.e., triangles) were valid .. so if you had a triangle and only 4-point 3dfaces were allowed, you had to repeat the last point per the spec
16:08.59starseekeryukonbob:  In theory it would be helpful debugging pure tcl applications like Archer and rtwizard
16:09.06PrezKennedybrlcad, they're going to get me apple certified
16:09.09PrezKennedyhow ironic eh?
16:20.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33846 10/rt^3/trunk/ (11 files in 2 dirs):
16:20.35CIA-40BRL-CAD: - virtual constructor and assignment operator for the Object
16:20.35CIA-40BRL-CAD: - some more functionality for the Combination
16:20.35CIA-40BRL-CAD: - clean-ups
16:20.54brlcadPrezKennedy: ironic? no .. inspiring ;)
16:33.17PrezKennedyit only take 40 screws to pop that hard drive outta your laptop... ;)
17:19.39*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@dhcp-x198w-162.mobile.uci.edu)
17:38.23alex_jonibrlcad: ok, thanks for the insight
17:38.44alex_joni(although I'm not a long time user of BRLCAD, I do know what mged and Archer are ;)
17:39.14alex_joniand for the dxf part, I think you're right, this was using AutoCAD 2009, but I wouldn't be too surprised if things were different with an older version
18:13.58starseekergrrrrr
18:14.08starseekercome on pipe, figure it out
18:15.16starseekerapparently pipe won't automatically "smooth" the difference between slopes where two coiling patterns join
18:16.20starseekerstarts scribbling math to calculate the tgc required to at least make the transition solid, if not truly "smooth"
18:25.04CIA-40BRL-CAD: 0377.58.247.103 07http://brlcad.org * r1212 10/wiki/Main_Page: 3rd party utils
18:25.58CIA-40BRL-CAD: 0377.58.247.103 07http://brlcad.org * r1213 10/wiki/Third_Party_Utilities: hex
18:28.31brlcadPrezKennedy: I don't have that laptop, only macbook pro's ftw
18:31.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: 0377.58.247.103 07http://brlcad.org * r1214 10/wiki/Hex: New page: Supported items: * Hex head metric bolts: M1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20, 22, 24, 27, 30, 33, 36, 39, 42, 45, 48, 52, 56, 60, 64 * Basic metric threaded nuts, * ...
18:32.20brlcad~nslookup 77.58.247.103
18:32.41brlcadsmells sushi edits ;)
18:34.10d-logood thing you like sushi eh?
18:35.59CIA-40BRL-CAD: 0377.58.247.103 07http://brlcad.org * r1215 10/wiki/Hex:
18:42.11CIA-40BRL-CAD: 0377.58.247.103 07http://brlcad.org * r1216 10/wiki/Hex:
18:53.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: 0377.58.247.103 07http://brlcad.org * r1217 10/wiki/Hex: /* Installation */
18:55.40CIA-40BRL-CAD: 0377.58.247.103 07http://brlcad.org * r1218 10/wiki/Hex: /* Installation */
18:57.35CIA-40BRL-CAD: 0377.58.247.103 07http://brlcad.org * r1219 10/wiki/Main_Page: /* Projects */
18:58.19CIA-40BRL-CAD: 0377.58.247.103 07http://brlcad.org * r1220 10/wiki/Main_Page: /* Projects */
18:59.13*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@77-58-247-103.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:59.25_sushi_I made a wiki page about the threade bolts tool http://brlcad.org/wiki/Hex
18:59.34d-lowe saw :)
18:59.39d-lolooks neat!
18:59.49CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33847 10/jbrlcad/trunk/ (18 files in 6 dirs): Fixed a few bugs
19:00.10starseekerah, OK.
19:00.39starseekershoot - doing quarter turn tricks over constrains the coil when individual sections need to be "blended"
19:00.54CIA-40BRL-CAD: 0377.58.247.103 07http://brlcad.org * r1221 10/wiki/Hex: /* Usage */
19:00.59starseekerOK, guess I caln live with that
19:03.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33848 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/spring.c:
19:03.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: Working example of a coil with a squared end. Will have to give up quarter turn
19:03.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: increment control in editing in order to allow pipe to smoothly join sections -
19:03.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: that's an acceptable tradeoff. There are other tricks that can be done
19:03.23CIA-40BRL-CAD: (including manual pipe editing, for that matter) if something really weird is
19:03.25CIA-40BRL-CAD: needed.
19:04.40CIA-40BRL-CAD: 0377.58.247.103 07http://brlcad.org * r1222 10/wiki/Hex:
19:05.30CIA-40BRL-CAD: 0377.58.247.103 07http://brlcad.org * r1223 10/wiki/Hex:
19:06.12CIA-40BRL-CAD: 0377.58.247.103 07http://brlcad.org * r1224 10/wiki/Hex:
19:07.11CIA-40BRL-CAD: 0377.58.247.103 07http://brlcad.org * r1225 10/wiki/Hex:
19:10.23CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33849 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/samples/BrlcadJava.java: Addef a usage message
19:15.02CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33850 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/gqa.c mged/cmd.c mged/cmd.h mged/setup.c):
19:15.02CIA-40BRL-CAD: Added a -Ap option to libged's ged_gqa function for creating psuedo-solid
19:15.02CIA-40BRL-CAD: wireframe of overlaps. Added a cmd_ged_gqa wrapper to MGED for using the
19:15.02CIA-40BRL-CAD: currently displayed objects if no objects were specified on the command line.
19:22.39_sushi_I am getting this error when compiling 7.14.0 /bin/sh: /home/clock/brlcad-7.14.0/src/other/tcl/unix/tclsh: No such file or director
19:22.42_sushi_y
19:24.23brlcadhrm, need more of the build log
19:25.10_sushi_seems I am getting this problem http://www.mail-archive.com/brlcad-tracker@lists.sourceforge.net/msg00113.html
19:25.17_sushi_I am trying autogen.sh
19:25.29_sushi_autogen.sh passed
19:25.48brlcadah, yeah
19:25.52brlcadthat's probably the problem
19:26.33brlcad_sushi_: can you post a full build log somewhere?
19:26.52_sushi_now the ./configure is printing endless cycle of configure: Would you like to continue with /usr as the install prefix? [yes/no]
19:26.54brlcaddon't have the problem here to reproduce it so a fix can be made
19:26.55_sushi_configure: Please answer 'yes' or 'no'
19:26.56_sushi_and ignores my keyboard input
19:26.58_sushi_configure:
19:27.03_sushi_Even if I paste "yes\n" in one mouse-click
19:27.12_sushi_Before it worked without the autogen.sh
19:27.33brlcadyou're installing into /usr ? .. yikes
19:27.45_sushi_Yes the previous brl-cad was installed into usr
19:27.59brlcadk, still surprising :)
19:28.13_sushi_I am actually reinstalling because of rendering bug in 7.10.4
19:28.56_sushi_7.10.4 renders my holder incorrectly http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/plazmatron_0.png
19:29.20_sushi_The yellow thing is interrupted in the middle you can see the wand with the ball at the end ends in the air it shouldn't
19:29.35_sushi_And the blue part is having a "horn" sticking out which apparently cannot have any mechanical function
19:29.54_sushi_Well is there a way I can get through the endless loop of questions?
19:30.18brlcadif it stays stuck, you can set BRLCAD_ROOT_OVERRIDE and it'll skip the yes/no question, though I'm curious how it got stuck in a loop
19:30.30brlcadpost your configure file somewhere
19:30.47brlcadit's a simple loop that just does a read until it gets a yes or a no
19:31.24_sushi_Good I hacked the yes test in configure
19:31.58_sushi_replaced read with assignment =yes :)
19:32.25_sushi_I am still getting the tclsh error
19:32.43brlcadyou would have to rebuild cleanly
19:33.20_sushi_http://twibright.com/typescript
19:33.27_sushi_what should I do to rebuild cleanly
19:38.19_sushi_The configure AFTER runjning autogen.sh is at http://twibright.com/configure
19:39.54_sushi_Now it compiles suspiciously long. The problem may be gone.
19:40.21_sushi_Actually isn't. Still pops up: /bin/sh: /home/clock/brlcad-7.14.0/src/other/tcl/unix/tclsh: No such file or directory
19:41.32_sushi_trying --enable-all...
19:41.36starseekerbrlcad:  here's the bomb log from the pipe raytracing crash:  http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m35029930
19:44.37_sushi_When I do rm config.cache* then ./configure --prefix=/usr --enable-all then it crashes on a different error:
19:44.50_sushi_./src/htmltcl.c: In function 'configureCmd':
19:44.50_sushi_./src/htmltcl.c:1351: error: 'HTML_DEFAULT_CSS' undeclared (first use in this function)
19:49.47brlcadhttp://twibright.com/configure is a 404
19:50.12_sushi_ah connection refused
19:50.17brlcadah, server is down
19:50.24_sushi_it's a friend's apache tomcat
19:50.40_sushi_when it crashes you usually wait for a short time and it's up again
19:51.24brlcadthat backtrace is useless, it's for the wrong thread
19:51.37brlcadunfortunately
19:51.45_sushi_brlcad: you are not talking about my log now are you?
19:51.58brlcadyep
19:52.05_sushi_the typescript is useless?
19:52.34brlcadwell, yeah, it's fairly useless too other than it confirmed that it's the same problem as the one you found on the mailing list
19:52.50brlcadbut no, I mean http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m35029930 isn't useful unfortunately
19:53.22brlcadthe automatic bomb report only shows the main thread -- if it's ray-tracing, there are potentially lots of threads
19:53.31brlcadcould try -P1 to force single cpu
19:53.59brlcador attaching with a debugger while it's running to get a proper trace for any one of the threads
19:55.49_sushi_brlcad: http://twibright.com/configure is up again
20:00.28brlcaddon't see anything wrong with your configure script unless you have a bused 'read' command
20:00.39brlcadrun this one-liner:
20:00.40brlcadecho "type yes or no" ; while true ; do read a ; case "x$a" in x*[yY][eE][sS]*) a=yes ; break; ;; x*[nN][oO]*) a=no; break; ;; x*) echo "answer yes or no" ; ;; esac ; done ; echo "you answered $a"
20:01.50brlcadthat's the exact same logic it's using
20:03.55_sushi_makes this - no loop:
20:03.55_sushi_type yes or no
20:03.55_sushi_yes
20:03.55_sushi_you answered yes
20:04.30_sushi_This one fortunately isn't critical while I can hack it easily
20:04.48_sushi_But how to get through the one with tcl or the one with CSS I have no idea
20:06.14_sushi_brlcad: can I produce some better typescript that tells you more about the cause/
20:10.50_sushi_brlcad: what's interesting if I don't run autogen.sh (using the configure from the tarball), it doesn't make the infinite yes loop.
20:11.17_sushi_if my read were screwed up, then it would happen even in this situation
20:25.48_sushi_Even symlinking the system-wide tcl into the required directory doesn't help - compiles for a long time then makes: //home/clock/brlcad-7.14.0/src/other/incrTcl/.libs/libitcl.so: undefined reference to `TclVarHashCreateVar'
20:26.38CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33851 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/spring.c: Successfully squared off both ends of a coil.
20:27.19starseekerbrlcad:  regression tests succeed for mged on my Mac with  latest checkout
20:30.18*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@64.74.225.82)
20:32.49starseekerbrlcad:  let's try this:  http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m1967e293
20:33.01_sushi_brlcad: any idea wha tI could temporarily do to get around the problem and compile a BRL-CAD that doesn't produce this raytracing error?
20:33.14starseekerwinces at the sight of boolweave
20:37.57CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33852 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (Makefile.am coil.c spring.c): Let's get this renamed - it's coil, not spring - spring is too general in terms of possible geometries.
20:39.21_sushi_I tried ./configure without --prefix, also crashes on tcl
21:12.18*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14DAEE.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:39.40brlcadcool, http://www.kenradio.com/content/view/1756/30/
21:39.46brlcadthanks ken
21:41.07brlcad_sushi_: I know it's not critical, it's just really odd -- if you still have the busted configure script, add a print statement on the x*) case to print the $bc_answer
21:41.27brlcadotherwise we'll just ignore it
21:42.10brlcadby your 'read' being messed up, the difference is in which interpreter is getting used, whether read is external or built-in (shell) command, etc
21:43.07brlcadstarseeker: oh, nice -- badmagic's in boolweave are pretty rare
21:43.53brlcad_sushi_: give me a shell somewhere and I could try to produce a build interactively
21:44.30brlcadotherwise, you could try using the latest sources -- tcl version is different there
21:46.12brlcadstarseeker: wince all you like, but that is actually one of the most valuable bits of logic in librt
21:46.40brlcadhighly optimized and tuned to exact behavior, tolerance corrections, interference detection, and performance
21:48.01brlcadI've attempted to rewrite it to be "more clean" about a half-dozen times and every single time I've either killed performance or changed behavior
21:48.20brlcadit'd be interesting to come up with a test harness that exercises every line of code in there
21:49.37louipcThere's some spam here: http://brlcad.org/d/node/31#comments
21:49.59brlcadstarseeker: once it's more complete, coil can move to src/shapes
21:50.10brlcad(like at the point that it gets documentation)
21:50.30brlcadlouipc: huh, thanks .. that's odd
21:50.38brlcadno comments are supposed to post without moderation
21:53.31louipchmm, probably better to lose the comments altogether eh?
21:57.22brlcadlouipc: possibly, though there are a few that are useful
22:00.56brlcadthere's so few that actually got through, makes me think that they're actually real people behind them
22:01.05brlcad4 in total
22:06.18brlcadwoot, http://dreamcss.blogspot.com/2009/02/10-free-and-useful-open-source.html
22:07.59louipcaww they could have put a more interesting screenshot
22:09.16brlcadyeah :)
22:09.35brlcadwebsite needs another face lift
22:29.49brlcad'read' is failing
22:58.07*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@ip67-95-244-194.z244-95-67.customer.algx.net)
23:04.13CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33853 10/brlcad/trunk/m4/prefix.m4: if stdout is closed, read will fail on eof and loop infinitely. so we add some checks for failed read and basic sanity to only ask yes/no 10 times before giving up.
23:08.26brlcadthat should take care of the infinite loop, now on to the next one later tonight
23:08.31brlcad(as I wait for this build)
23:29.08starseekerbrlcad:  not wincing at the boolweave code, but at the bug poping up there - there be dragons for debugging and code sensitivity
23:58.35*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-71.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090221

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090221

00:06.57*** join/#brlcad smurfette (n=Pandora@c-69-242-189-29.hsd1.mo.comcast.net)
00:44.18*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@sa-ga143065.reshsg.uci.edu)
02:00.54*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@sa-ga143065.reshsg.uci.edu)
03:02.18*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.141)
03:28.19starseekerbrlcad:  fwiw, the crash seems to come when the pipe just fills the mged window
04:28.53yukonbobaway
04:28.57yukonbobwoops
04:30.21yukonbobstarseeker: see: -DTCL_DEBUG_MEM
08:50.53_sushi_brlcad: did you find something out?
09:19.24CIA-40BRL-CAD: 0377.58.247.103 07http://brlcad.org * r1226 10/wiki/Hex:
10:58.39*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
13:48.56*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@rt.5.nat.stcable.net)
13:49.53csanyipalHi
14:01.37brlcadhowdy csanyipal!
14:02.49brlcad_sushi_: yes, the TclVarHashCreateVar error is because of a tcl+itcl version mismatch
14:02.55brlcadit's this problem: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=640802&aid=2029877&group_id=105292
14:03.11brlcadchecking an enable-all now
14:03.37brlcadcsanyipal: are you the one with the students?
14:12.51csanyipalbrlcad: yes, I'm a teacher in a secondary school.
14:16.06brlcadcsanyipal: cool, I believe I've exchanged a few messages with one of your students
14:16.38brlcador a group of them, rather -- for a modeling project you have them working on
14:16.47csanyipalIn that case I'm not that one teacher, I belive..
14:21.25brlcadhm
14:22.57csanyipalWe have here a local competition of the informatics and I have just one student she made a simple model of an image holder..
14:28.19brlcadthese students were modeling some sort of space satellite, and are now trying to make an animation of it
14:28.54csanyipalIt's interesting. :)
14:29.42csanyipalOn the BRLCAD Wiki there is now an article about Animation..
14:30.19csanyipalhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Animation
14:31.59csanyipalI read this Article and try to find an application like the iPhoto on MAC OS but on the Debian GNU/Linux Lenny, but so far without a success.
14:33.03csanyipalMayhep I try out the ffmpeg way to get an animation soon.
14:33.30brlcadyeah, ffmpeg is the way to go on linux
14:33.41brlcadjust didn't get to putting the steps in, hoping someone else would :)
14:33.54csanyipalare these student using linux too?
14:33.56brlcadgimp maybe has a way too
14:34.08csanyipalI think about GIMP too..
14:34.34csanyipalbut I don't know how to import the frames: the png images?
14:34.51brlcadyeah, http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/feature/1664.html
14:35.39brlcadanother one: http://www.linux.com/feature/136606
14:35.41csanyipalIf one make a GIF animation with GIMP this result can be only a GIF image but not an avi file.
14:35.47brlcad(never used the latter)
14:38.18csanyipalNow I have a little problem with my Debian Lenny because this is a fresh installation and I must to set up some things like keyboard layouts..
14:39.58csanyipalLater I will install again BRLCAD and try to make an animation with ffmpeg so if I have a success then I shall write it down in the BRLCAD WIKI. :)
14:40.26brlcadawesome
14:46.47brlcadlooks like imagemagik may do the trick very simply if you have animation support compiled in .. convert *.jpg movie.mpg
14:47.00brlcads/jpg/png/
14:48.07brlcadnotes http://www.stillhq.com/jpeg2mpeg/000001.html
14:50.22csanyipalif so then I will try it out too
14:51.47csanyipalI must go now to solve my problem with Debian Lenny Desktop. By for now!
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15:33.26brlcadstarseeker: I still get the bwish Tcl_Init upgrade error, something is missing
15:33.51brlcadas of 33853 at least
15:35.22brlcad_sushi_: your compile worked just fine off a trunk checkout using --enable-all
15:36.10brlcadI think you were just impatient and didn't clean the build like I said you had to after rerunning configure
15:36.43brlcadso it had stale object files that still had the tcl+itcl mismatch
16:40.15CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1227 10/wiki/Animation: add a section for MJPEG and ImageMagick
16:50.25CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33854 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/ (tcl/unix/configure.in tk/unix/configure.in): Put autoconf minimums back (again) to 2.52
16:56.56CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33855 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/unix/ (Makefile.in configure.in): Attempt to re-apply tweaks for IRIX amde in r27764
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17:03.32CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33856 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/generic/tclProc.c: Reapply the tcl part of the fix in r27960
17:08.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33857 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/ (tcl/unix/tcl.m4 tk/unix/tcl.m4): Reapply tcl.m4 change from r28110
17:18.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33858 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Get more AC_PREREQ versions (per r28282)
17:21.56CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33859 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/generic/tcl.h: Add back in quelling of HAVE_DECLSPEC warning from r28804
17:24.51CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33860 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/unix/Makefile.in: See if this addresses the issue with SGI make mentioned in r28933
17:30.51*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.147.18)
17:32.07CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33861 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tk/unix/Makefile.in: Merge in the Makefile.in changes from r29075 - tcl Makefile.in already had them applied, so be sure to use the diff from r29075 as a basis if this needs to be done again.
17:34.49CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33862 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/win/tclWinPort.h: Merge in conditionally undef INCL_WINSOCK_API_TYPEDEFS from r29126
17:39.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33863 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/generic/tclInt.h: Reference common.h in tclInt.h (per r29324)
17:44.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33864 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tk/unix/Makefile.in: Merge in the Makefile.in changes from r29830 - tcl Makefile.in already had them applied, so be sure to use the diff from r29830 as a basis if this needs to be done again.
17:47.00brlcadupdates
17:48.52CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33865 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/generic/tclInt.h: Merge in tclInt.h tweak for Windows from r30119
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17:49.46_sushi_brlcad: I went to gym turned the PC off and forgot you might have been doing something on it
17:51.32brlcad_sushi_: nope, I'm done
17:51.55_sushi_brlcad: what did you find out?
17:51.57brlcadit builds cleanly without any changes after the inf. query loop was fixed
17:52.29brlcadI think you were just impatient :)
17:52.32_sushi_How do I build it then?
17:52.34brlcaddidn't clean the build like I said you had to after rerunning configure
17:52.40brlcadso it had stale object files that still had the tcl+itcl mismatch
17:52.57_sushi_I deleted the directory and unpacked the .bz2 again
17:53.00brlcadotherwise it worked fine to just --enable-all
17:53.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33866 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/generic/tcl.h: Merge in tcl.h changes from r30196
17:53.31brlcadthe build in my dir will install to /usr/brlcad if you run sudo make install
17:54.11brlcadotherwise can make clean, ./configure --enable-all --prefix=/usr --enable-optimized, make, sudo make install to get what you were going for
17:55.02_sushi_Which version did you compile? Did you run autogen.sh? What did you specify on ./configure?
17:55.13brlcadyes, you have to run autogen.sh
17:55.16CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33867 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/generic/tclInt.h: Merge in tclInt.h changes from r30367
17:55.35brlcadand I just gave you the configure line.....
17:56.09brlcadthough you should also add --without-ogl if the framebuffer gives you trouble
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17:57.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33868 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/generic/tclInt.h: Merge in tclInt.h changes from r30424
17:57.25_sushi_brlcad: which version did you compile? SVN or 7.14.0?
17:58.05brlcadI always go straight to SVN
17:58.15_sushi_Well I was compiling 7.14.0
17:58.15brlcadno point wasting time on something that may have already been fixed
17:58.23brlcadthough in this case I really don't think that was the problem
17:58.49_sushi_I did a svn checkout of *EVERYTHING* into my home
17:59.00_sushi_Now I go to brlcad/brlcad/trunk?
17:59.06brlcadyou shouldn't do that :)
17:59.16_sushi_Will it not compile because of that?
17:59.23brlcadthat will make a copy of every branch and every tag
17:59.36brlcadno, it just wastes many many GB of space
17:59.49_sushi_How do I checkout only the right one?
17:59.49brlcadand takes forever
17:59.54brlcad~cadsvn
17:59.54ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
18:00.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33869 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/ (tcl/unix/Makefile.in tk/unix/Makefile.in): Hmm - line modded in r30505 in the Makefile.in's wasn't present at all - add it back in.
18:04.42_sushi_du -sk brlcad <didn't finish>
18:05.09_sushi_19 GB :)
18:05.55_sushi_brlcad: did you compile with the ogl or without ogl flag?
18:10.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33870 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/ (tcl/unix/Makefile.in tk/unix/Makefile.in): Merge in changes to get Makefile.in's synced with r30534, trying to fix Ubuntu bug
18:11.49brlcad_sushi_: you should --without-ogl
18:16.00CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33871 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/generic/tcl.h: Attempt to merge in change from r30938
18:20.07starseekerbrlcad:  That's every change I was able to spot up to your changes to squash warnings, which I want to take a bit more care with
18:20.19starseekerfor src/other/tcl at least
18:29.44_sushi_brlcad: should be make clean done before autogen.sh or after?
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19:59.59_sushi_brlcad: now it compiled - went through make
20:12.42*** join/#brlcad groovyOrange (n=groovyOr@loft1436.serverloft.com)
20:13.03groovyOrangehello! (again)
20:13.17groovyOrangeI'm looking foe Janin
20:13.24groovyOrange*for Janin
20:14.16groovyOrangeshe'd uploaded some files. I need to ask her.
20:15.31groovyOrangeit's better for her to know she can connect me through love15411@gmail.com
20:20.53groovyOrangeShe have uploaded command files in XML. I want to use it with OmegaT.org and finish my past work. I can not search those files through the tracker on sourceforge.net => this can spend whole my traffic.
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20:21.31_sushi_brlcad: wow! The new BRL-CAD 7.14.3 from SVN renders the problematic model correctly! :)
20:21.55_sushi_brlcad: thanks!
20:24.48groovyOrangeruskie: Rusky, how long are you here?
21:09.49ruskieerm...
21:09.54ruskiebeen a while
21:10.13groovyOrangeruskie: yeah
21:10.45ruskieany particular reason?
21:10.57groovyOrangeno...
21:11.35groovyOrangeruskie: don't you know a link where to get mged commands in xml as one file, e.g. as an archive?
21:11.43ruskieno
21:11.49groovyOrangeok
21:12.02ruskieI haven't yet even installed the app so far...
21:12.11groovyOrangewhy?
21:12.18groovyOrangei can help
21:12.32ruskiea) haven't gotten around to it b) wanted to package it and c) more than capable of setting it up
21:12.34groovyOrangewhat operating system? Linux?
21:12.57groovyOrangeok, i'm not really a programmer...
21:13.54groovyOrangelast time i tried to export pipes and rods into IGES and it wasn't successful.
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21:31.45groovyOrangeok, i can be off-line now. ah, ok. I can ask starseeker...
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090222

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090222

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15:17.08brlcadstarseeker: hm, well something is pooched still :)
15:17.52brlcadand I think the change I recall was maybe to the init.tcl or pkgIndex.tcl script
15:18.06brlcadeither way, the pooching now is some basic syntax failure
15:19.22brlcadwonders who groovyOrange is/was and this supposed janin
15:27.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33872 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/generic/tcl.h: Whoops - gummed up the CRTIMPORT stuff in tcl - put it back to where it builds
16:38.18brlcadthat seems to have done the trick
17:27.02CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33873 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): don't include autoconf output files in the source dist. this is what has been causing the reported build failures from source dist builds. users had to run autogen.sh to invalidate and regenerate outputs.
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21:56.47tc-ruchoHello, I'm about to try my first steps with BRL-CAD. Hope you don't mind some questions about how to get something working
22:38.24starseekerbrlcad:  I think "janin" is our docbook xml guru at work
22:41.03CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33874 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/coil.c: It's coil, not spring
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23:44.37*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.2 is posted (20080207)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090223

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090223

01:10.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33875 10/jbrlcad/trunk/ (16 files in 7 dirs):
01:10.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: Corrected some bugs.
01:10.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: Added a bin directory
01:16.01louipcsome bugs? :D
02:01.24brlcadstarseeker: ah
03:00.54*** part/#brlcad tc-rucho (n=tc-rucho@unaffiliated/tc-rucho)
06:36.07brlcadburps what could quite possibly be some of the best wings he's had to date
06:36.28brlcadnow to unbreak distcheck..
06:36.35yukonbobgoes to Wingnuts in Vancouver...
06:36.46yukonbobbrlcad: question re: development methodology.
06:36.54brlcadyukonbob: shoot
06:37.50yukonbobI noticed you were helping somebody with a build, and you said "I usually just use HEAD, in case a bug is already solved there" -- so it must be a law "never check-in a broken build", correct?
06:38.45brlcadnot quite so strict, but something to that effect -- at least not knowingly break the build or leave it in a broken state
06:38.48yukonbobheh -- /me sees previous comment "unbreak..." :)
06:39.24yukonbobI guess some philosophies are 100% strict... was wondering what your take on it is...
06:40.00brlcadyeah, there being a good example actually -- good faith fix was made that should have been benign, but later discovered that it wasn't and broke the build -- so now I can't proceed until things are fixed or reverted, and the issue shouldn't linger
06:41.34brlcadissues will happen, even with a 100% policy
06:42.20brlcadbecause in actuality, no matter how many tests you impose, that really only approaches 100% and is some level of 99.something%
06:43.00brlcadwith process overhead (hopefully) giving you an order or two of additional confidence but at the *cost* of development fluidity and process overhead
06:45.25brlcadso my general take is to be more adaptive to whatever the situation is, able to respond to a failed build reasonably quickly and with responsibility on the devs to take good faith efforts to not break things and fix them when they are broken
06:45.49brlcadthat's pretty much in-line with what is spelled out in the HACKING file too
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13:55.36starseekerd-lo: Could you pass the word I'm out sick today, if you're in?
13:58.20brlcadsorry to hear that starseeker
13:58.54starseekerbrlcad:  I guess it's reasonable - it hasn't happened much this past year - but it sucks :-(
13:59.05starseekerdistcheck is still busted?
13:59.18brlcadmy issue now
14:00.03brlcadfixed the makefile bunding, but also pulled configure and I don't understand why that isn't getting regenerated yet
14:00.28starseekerhmm.  OK
14:00.57brlcadso the tcl init problem may still be there, but don't know
14:01.58brlcadgot another test going now
14:02.03brlcadg'morning d-lo
14:04.15d-logrumbles about state vehicle inspections...
14:04.36d-lomornin brlcad!
14:07.59d-lostarseeker: Did you call and leave voice mails?
14:08.13d-lostarseeker: Sent an email to Ed, Paulette and Steph.
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14:23.40_sushi_brlcad: the brlcad now works fine, thanks!
14:57.58brlcad_sushi_: glad to hear it
15:13.02brlcadwoots as has a functioning distcheck, sans init errors
15:13.16CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33876 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am): so the configure scripts need to be included so they can be run immediately post-dist creation (and don't get a chance to regenerate), but don't include the Makefile files else evil trolls will foil thy compile.
15:14.06brlcadhm, though the init errors were during test, not distcheck.. testing
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15:54.31brlcadstarseeker: woot, all working again
16:51.48brlcadplans to make a release this weekend if all still looks good
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17:39.17CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33877 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/geometry/Hit.java: Added @Override annotation
17:43.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33878 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/ (8 files in 3 dirs): More bug fixes
17:48.51CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33879 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/samples/rt.java: Take into account the colortab
17:54.39d-loGo John Go!
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20:16.57CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33880 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/preppedGeometry/PreppedArb8.java: Corrected miss behavior
20:17.42CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33881 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/spacePartition/RayData.java: Fixed variable that hid field
20:19.02CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33882 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/preppedGeometry/ (PreppedEllipsoid.java PreppedRec.java PreppedTgc.java): Only Bot needs to add its segments to the RayData
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21:04.16CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33883 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged.c: Setting the default view to 35,25
21:05.58CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33884 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/setup.c: Set default display variables for when there's no database open.
21:16.37brlcadwoot
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21:55.56starseekerd-lo: thanks :-)
21:56.14starseekerbrlcad: excellent :-)
21:56.40brlcadyeah, and with those last two fixes from bob, might be good to go
21:56.43starseekermakes note to self to diff with 8.5.6 vanilla for future reference.
21:56.51brlcadcan you test mged?
21:57.01starseekersure, let me build quick
21:57.35brlcadat least for potential show-stopper issues, minor ones can just make the list for later
22:03.52starseekerbrlcad:  did bob show you the gqa visualization?
22:04.25brlcadI saw what he was working on last week
22:04.32starseekerah :-)
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22:05.37starseekernow if we can make it use a default grid spacing based on the view size, we may be able to type gqa instead of rtcheck and get better results :-)
22:07.06brlcadgqa output would still need to be improved, rtcheck's is a little more organized
22:07.33starseekernods
22:07.41starseekerthat should be doable though
22:08.12brlcadwould be nice to replace rtcheck so we don't have duplicate functionality
22:08.23brlcadeven if the namesake remains
22:08.28starseekerindeed
22:08.52starseekerfor full on replacement though, we'd have to have a "compatibility" mode, wouldn't we?  to be able to duplicate previous results?
22:09.19brlcadnot strictly speaking
22:10.10brlcadit just needs to at least do what rtcheck does to replace it
22:10.16brlcadmore is okay, just shouldn't do less/worse
22:10.49brlcadone feature rtcheck will do still that gqa won't is user-specified view grids
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22:11.03brlcadshould be a simple enhancement to add arbitrary views really
22:11.12starseekerthat's what I was thinking
22:11.47starseekerwe would need to do something of the sort eventually anyhow
22:11.59brlcadthen maybe gqa's default is just 0 0 0, 0 90 0, 0 0 90 like it does now, but allow user to specify N arbitrary views to override
22:12.22brlcadso you could get rtcheck's exact rays being fired if you set up the same view and only that view with no refinement, for example
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22:17.11starseekerright
22:17.36starseekerthen for the rtcheck alias, just hardcode the options that would provide the grid set derived from the view plane
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22:41.06starseekerbrlcad:  Seems to be doing find for release critical stuff - opendb didn't result in the background color being updated according to preferences, but I don't know if that's a problem or not
22:41.47brlcaddoes it display the wireframe when you e up something?
22:42.30starseekeryep
22:45.24brlcadk
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23:56.02tc-ruchohello, how can I set the twist angle in the view?
23:56.29tc-ruchoazimut and elevation are set with 'ae', but, what about twist?
23:56.57tc-ruchoI would find brlcad way more intuitive if it allowed me to just do  'view tw=15'
23:57.09tc-ruchoor 'view set tw=15'
23:57.19tc-ruchobut that doesn't work
23:57.34brlcadyou have the right idea
23:57.41brlcadjust the wrong syntax
23:58.03tc-ruchowhat's it then?
23:58.14brlcadtwo ways
23:58.21tc-ruchoI've been looking for a way to do that for like 20 mins
23:58.32brlcad:)
23:58.48brlcadokay, so first slightly longer way, view command
23:58.54brlcadrun view, see the list of subcommands
23:58.57brlcadone of them is aet
23:59.06brlcadview aet 0 0 30
23:59.10brlcadaz/el/twist
23:59.16tc-ruchooh, but when I tried 'help view aet' it was not documented
23:59.38tc-ruchomged> help view aet
23:59.39tc-ruchoUsage: view center|size|eye|ypr|quat|aet
23:59.41tc-rucho(get/set view parameters (local units).)
23:59.43tc-ruchoNo help found for aet
23:59.48brlcad"help view aet" means "help view" and "help aet"
23:59.57tc-ruchoI think that shouldn't say "no help found for aet"
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090224

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090224

00:00.08tc-ruchooh
00:00.08brlcadhelp view opendb closedb tra
00:00.11brlcadit'll give help on command(s)
00:00.15tc-ruchoI see
00:00.17brlcadlike man a b c
00:00.23tc-ruchobut how to get help about suboptions of a command?
00:00.45brlcadthere is no suboption help for that command
00:00.50brlcadbut all is not lost
00:00.56brlcadnotice the get/set
00:01.07brlcadrun any one of those without arguments and it'll get the current value
00:01.15brlcadrun with args and it'll set
00:02.04tc-ruchogot it
00:02.06tc-ruchoone more thing
00:02.08brlcadnow the kicker, the 'ae' command does exactly the same
00:02.20brlcadif you run ae, how many numbers you see?
00:02.34brlcadguess which one is twist ;)
00:03.01tc-ruchohow am I supposed to guess what do {eye, ypr, quat, aet} stand for? I know aet now, but how about the others?
00:03.26brlcadthose are documented in the mged tutorial series
00:03.36brlcadone of the appendices
00:03.41tc-ruchomged> ae 45 45 0
00:03.43tc-ruchomged> ae
00:03.45tc-rucho45 45 -4.07111e-15
00:03.48tc-rucho^ wtf? lol
00:03.58brlcadthey are also on the mged help menu somewhere
00:04.02tc-ruchoI would expect it to return 45 45 0
00:04.30brlcadthat's basic x86 floating point unit behavior
00:05.07brlcadit can't exactly represent most integer values, that was the closest approximation
00:05.26brlcadfar beyond numerical computation tolerance, mged just lets you know what the hardware did
00:05.56tc-ruchook, I think I'm done asking stuff for now. Just one more thing. When I raytrace something it stays as a background image and no clue how to erase it, tried the 'fbclear' button in the raytrace menu but got an ugly 'command not found'. Any hint?
00:06.05tc-ruchomaybe I have to check something in my path
00:06.22brlcadanother place you can find more help on some of the commands, there's an mged quick reference card on the website under docs
00:06.26``Erikexport PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin
00:07.04brlcadyeah, run that before you run mged and it should fix it - what version are you using?
00:10.38``Erikwow... just... wow... http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1900391
00:13.20tc-rucho7.10.4
00:17.53tc-ruchoit would be really cool if brlcad had something like 'man' for a detailed explanation of every option available for a command (does it have it and I didn't notice?)
00:18.58tc-ruchooh yeah
00:19.14tc-ruchoit does have a manpage for each command
00:19.24brlcadthere are manpages for most of the external commands
00:19.26tc-ruchojust that doesn't seem to be accessible from the mged
00:19.30brlcadyeah
00:19.31tc-ruchoyeah, just noticed
00:19.40brlcadbrlman will search the /usr/brlcad manpath
00:19.54brlcadbut you'll get better results if you just set your MANPATH
00:20.18brlcadwe're working on having more detailed "manpages" for all of the mged commands too, that's just a hell of a lot of work
00:21.39tc-ruchoI know, maybe I will help with that in the future, but I first need to get the hang of brlcad, it's like drawing using assembly language
00:21.48tc-ruchono fancy mouse thing
00:21.58brlcadat least not until you're a lot more proficient
00:22.17brlcadthere are lots of various shortcuts for most tasks, but it's way too much to get into for new users
00:22.24brlcadjust gets confusing before you learn the basics
00:22.30``Erikfor a in `mged -c blah.g 'echo $MGED_CMDS'` ; do echo "Things and stuff" > $a.help ; done
00:22.40``Erik:D *duck*
00:23.10``Eriksorry, I'll behave :)
00:23.36brlcadtc-rucho: if you do get interested in helping out with the docs, there are about 100 external commands that don't have manpages yet (listed in the TODO file iirc), and pretty much most/all of the mged commands need to be expanded for manpage format
00:25.00tc-ruchoyeah, but first I need to decide whether or not brlcad is a good solution for my needs.
00:25.07brlcadsure
00:25.22brlcadif it's not a good solution, always looking for good hands to help make it one ;)
00:25.27brlcadopen dev team
00:25.47tc-ruchogood (:
00:27.40tc-ruchowould love brlcad if it had some lisp dialect [instead of tcl] (what's between brackets it's optional)
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00:28.19CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33885 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/tcl.c: clamp all floating point values being printed to a string to a corresponding integer value if the number is within hardware computational tolerance. the user probably wanted and expects 42 instead of 41.9999999999997.
00:31.09CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33886 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
00:31.09CIA-40BRL-CAD: clamp even more values to the closest corresponding integer if they're within
00:31.09CIA-40BRL-CAD: hardware tolerance. this change was made in response to unexpected behavior
00:31.09CIA-40BRL-CAD: reported by a new user (tc-rucho) learning to use various view manipulation
00:31.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: commands. the effect of this change should be pretty pervasive to most mged
00:31.12CIA-40BRL-CAD: commands that utilize the libbn routines for printing numbers to strings (ae
00:31.14CIA-40BRL-CAD: being one example).
00:32.56tc-ruchobrlcad: I think using fractions for internal calcs and then converting to float for UI output would avoid a lot of float weirdness
00:33.29brlcadheh
00:33.48brlcadit sure would
00:33.55tc-rucho(:
00:34.28brlcadit'd also be approximately three orders of magnitude slower for most operations :)
00:34.49brlcadnot to mention require a pretty pervasive data type change throughout
00:35.18tc-ruchoit's always like this T_T
00:35.33tc-ruchofriggin floats
00:35.36brlcad(we're talking about affecting something on the order of a quarter-million lines of code)
00:36.07tc-ruchough
00:36.17brlcadit's much easier to just test the number and print it cleanly, and account for floating point fuzz in the calculations
00:36.42brlcadthat last change should make what you just saw go away
00:37.44brlcadI've toyed with using something like gmp behind our fastf_t number type to get exact calculations -- that'd be an interesting gsoc project for someone to take on
00:41.47tc-ruchobrlcad: is there a way to _lock_ tw to a certain value when using the mouse to rotate the view?
00:42.49brlcadooof, I believe so, but I don't have the mouse keybindings memorized -- maybe check the shift-grips table on the docs?
01:11.42tc-ruchowhen trying to modify just 1 element from a parameter array, is there a way to tell mged to reuse existing value in that position? I mean something like  'view aet . . 0' which would reuse the current az and el, and set tw to 0
01:15.48tc-ruchoit's not really that cool to retype everything to change just 1 element
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01:17.00Ralithnot_so_fastf_t
01:20.11tc-ruchooops, seems my last 2 lines were sent to /dev/null
01:20.26tc-ruchowhen trying to modify just 1 element from a parameter array, is there a way to tell mged to reuse existing value in that position? I mean something like  'view aet . . 0' which would reuse the current az and el, and set tw to 0
01:20.26tc-ruchoit's not really that cool to retype everything to change just 1 element
01:22.59Ralithbrlcad: how would you drop in gmp in an elegant way? I can't see a method cleaner than replacing every single arithmetic operation with a preprocessor macro or similar.
01:23.55tc-ruchosed -i ?
01:24.59Ralithtc-rucho: even if it was that simple, which it's not, the end result would still be very ugly
01:27.35tc-ruchoanyway, Ralith, is there a way to tell mged to reuse a current value instead typing it again over and over?
01:27.53Ralithno, but try the up arrow
01:27.56Ralithnot afaik*
01:30.24brlcadtc-rucho: hm, can't say that need has actually ever come up to only change twist -- at least no requests for it
01:30.48brlcadyou can just up-arrow and change a previous line if it's a need to repeatedly test new values
01:31.03brlcadthere is command history
01:31.24tc-ruchobrlcad: no, if there was no previous line regarding those values there's nothing to do but to retype the whole thing
01:31.25brlcadRalith: via compilation with a c++ compiler
01:31.36Ralithbrlcad: huh?
01:31.51Ralithdoes GCC have some special gmp support or something?
01:32.11brlcadtc-rucho: you said retype -- but I think you mean type ;)
01:32.11Ralithoh right
01:32.12RalithC++.
01:32.17Ralithoperator overloading.
01:32.19brlcadoperator overlaoding
01:32.20brlcadright
01:32.22tc-ruchobrlcad: right (:
01:32.24RalithI thought all that code was in C, though
01:32.32brlcadit is
01:32.42Ralithmoving it to C++ is acceptable?
01:32.50Raliththought he recalled some reluctance to do that
01:33.12brlcaddoesn't mean that it can't be compiled with a c++ compiler -- we don't hit the problem cases
01:33.24Ralithhm, good point
01:33.34brlcadoh hell, wouldn't move to that -- it would destroy performance for real-world use
01:33.51brlcadliterally, it is two-to-three *orders* slower ..
01:34.08Ralithreally? I didn't know C++ impaired performance that much.
01:34.14brlcadno
01:34.16Ralithassuming you're just doing C things in it
01:34.17brlcadyou're missing something :)
01:34.40Ralithwhat'm I missing, then?
01:34.41brlcadtalking about replacing fastf_t's with a fixed-precision numeric class type
01:34.44Ralithoh, yes
01:34.50Ralithof course
01:35.01RalithI thought you were responding to my question about moving to C++.
01:35.11brlcadI was also responding to that
01:35.16brlcadwe wouldn't "move" to C++
01:35.56brlcadif we wanted to make a fixed-precision compile, we'd would make it work through the c++ compiler and use the fixed-precision math pervasively
01:36.52brlcadit would be a compile-time toggle that could be used for various purposes where the performance hit was acceptible, like regression testing, certain analyses, certain geometric transformations, etc
01:36.53Ralithand the way you'd keep that in the same codebase would be by ifdef-ing out the GMP bits, which would be the only part requiring C++ features?
01:36.56tc-ruchobrlcad: in a normal bash session I would do => view aet `view aet | awk '{print $1 $2 "0"}'`  However, if you think it makes sense to add something like => view aet @ @ 0  where '@' would reuse the current value for that field, then I will gladly contribute a patch adding it (:
01:37.09brlcadRalith: right
01:37.18Ralithpart of me thinks that's a hack
01:37.25Ralithand part of me thing that's a wonderfully effective solution
01:37.50Ralithhm.
01:37.54brlcadit's not a hack if it works, rather elegant imho
01:38.05brlcadstill a lot of work, though
01:38.16Ralithyeah, I guess I just have an innate aversion to the preprocessor.
01:38.31Ralithcomes from too much playing with higher level languages
01:38.36brlcadhave to make fastf_t's fully pervasive, have to have a whole buffet of operator functions
01:38.45brlcadtc-rucho: hmmm
01:39.46tc-ruchobecause I don't think aet will be the only command that will benefice from a value-reuser
01:40.42brlcadcommand-parsing like that is still command-specific, though, as args are vastly different from command to command
01:41.01brlcadso either start a new convention.. or add new subcommands
01:41.06Ralithconsiders finding himself a GSoC project to sign on to
01:41.07brlcadview tw 12
01:41.22brlcadview az 10
01:42.09tc-ruchoyeah
01:42.13brlcadtc-rucho: how about the latter, a lot more isolated to just add new view subcommands
01:42.37tc-ruchobrlcad: would they be included in brlcad if I make them?
01:42.45brlcadand goes well with the aim to make the commands more stateless
01:42.50brlcadtc-rucho: absolutely
01:42.55tc-ruchogood (:
01:43.13brlcadgood to have all three, az|el|tw
01:43.52tc-ruchoI think it would be nice to be able to do something like => view tw 0 el 30
01:44.07tc-ruchobeing 'view' the main command and the rest options with values
01:44.14brlcadsure, gang up sets of commands on view
01:44.28brlcadview ypr 10 200 0 tw 10
01:44.45brlcadsimilar to what you ran into for help ;)
01:45.40brlcadsrc/libged/view.c is where the view command lives
01:45.42tc-ruchoyeah, I strongly believe changing the commands model a bit would improve mged's usability a _LOT_
01:45.46brlcadit calls out to various other commands
01:45.58brlcadwe're working on that
01:46.42tc-ruchoI'm your man then (: but I will be able to get my hands on the commands code in april
01:46.42brlcadfirst step was getting all the commands out of the application front-end and in one place in a library (libged)
01:47.01brlcadnext step is/was making all the commands modeless (ugh, lots to do)
01:47.10brlcadthere's still a lot more that has to happen
01:48.22tc-ruchosure
01:48.24brlcadnext step after that is command reduction and consolidation
01:49.06tc-ruchoI'd love some tw lock for mouse orbit
01:49.10brlcade.g. instead of a dozen bot_* commands, there's one bot command with various subcommands
01:49.34brlcadhey, if you make the mod, there's no reason to not put features like that in
01:49.58tc-ruchoI like that
01:49.59tc-rucho(:
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01:50.36brlcadmake more than a couple useful patches and you'd end up working directly on the code
01:51.11brlcadRalith: are you applying?
01:51.42Ralithbrlcad: well, student applications aren't for a month or so, right?
01:51.48RalithI certainly like the idea.
01:52.07brlcadyeah
01:52.15brlcadthe problem here will be slots
01:52.42brlcadif we participate, I'm planning to probably have even fewer students than last year
01:53.23brlcadjust 2 or 3, so it'll be even more competitive
01:53.42tc-ruchobrlcad: what do you mean? svn access?
01:53.46brlcadtc-rucho: sure
01:53.48Ralithaw. Perhaps I'll find myself a less high profile mentoring organization.
01:53.54Ralithtc-rucho: happened to me.
01:54.00tc-ruchobrlcad: oh, nice (:
01:54.25brlcadRalith: i'm not saying you don't have a chance, you have a leg up just by already being part of the community with a history :)
01:54.41brlcadsome of last year's students have leverage too in that regard
01:54.59Ralithbrlcad: fair. Are you allowed to apply to multiple organizations and take your pick of the acceptors?
01:55.18brlcaddoesn't work that way exactly, but yes you can apply to multiple orgs
01:55.31Ralithwill read up on it
01:55.38brlcadif you are accepted by multiple orgs, though, the orgs sort it out (and maybe or maybe not involve you)
01:55.43RalithO.o
01:55.50Raliththat's... weird
01:55.56brlcadall happens behind the scenes
01:56.09brlcadthere's a big conflict resolution meeting
01:56.18brlcadif it's not resolved beforehand
01:57.03Ralithis there a list of SoCables anywhere? Perhaps some subset of that wanted features page of yours?
01:57.12Ralith(within BRL-CAD, that is)
01:57.39brlcadit works out well because many acceptances are contingent on a lot of factors .. like if the project you proposed to one org is considerably more valuable than it was to another org, or maybe you're right on the cutoff and they haven't decided on whether to accept you as N+1
01:58.04brlcadRalith: yeah, you can see the materials for last year up on the website
01:58.04Ralithhm, I guess that is pretty reasonable.
01:58.13brlcadhas a list of a dozen or so projects
01:58.19Ralithnothing new since then?
01:58.33brlcadI'll probably cull that down to about a half-dozen this year to focus applications
01:58.43brlcadplenty new
01:58.47brlcadbut nothing that needs to be added
01:59.02Ralith'kay then
01:59.20brlcadand students are always welcome to submit ideas not on the list
01:59.29brlcadsome of the best ideas for bz haven't been on our list
02:00.34Ralithbzflag is on SoC? I didn't know they did games.
02:00.45brlcadwe were their first game two years ago
02:00.49Ralithneat!
02:00.52brlcadthis will be year three if we accept
02:00.56``Erikwow, europeans take their winter sports seriously http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1901384
02:02.13brlcad``Erik: do you just wander through video, joke, and comic forums for hours on end??
02:02.27brlcadsounds like a bigger brain-rotting waste of time than watching tv all day
02:02.31brlcad:)
02:02.40tc-ruchoagrees
02:03.31RalithI dunno, at least it's interactive
02:04.06``Erikyes, yes I do
02:04.12``Erikat least until I'm caught up
02:04.23brlcadshakes head
02:04.31``Erikeventually, I'll make it to the end of the internet, get the highscore and finally beat it
02:05.49brlcadtc-rucho: if you go diving in, keep in mind that libged is the start of a pretty big refactoring effort -- and is subject to change
02:06.19brlcadnot so much the commands themselves and how they behave but the ged struct and how data makes it in and out
02:06.41brlcadand there's still a lot more to go to decouple tcl
02:06.44tc-ruchobrlcad: I was already considering in getting latest svn sources of BRLCAD to start diving into it's code
02:07.29brlcadalso, you mentioned other languages -- for what it's worth if you've not seen it, mged can be pretty readily scripted and batched from any language
02:07.42brlcade.g., http://brlcad.org/wiki/SGI_Cube
02:07.42tc-ruchobrlcad: by the way, you just mentioned decoupling tcl, what are you implying? getting rid of it and adopting something else or what?
02:08.09tc-ruchoyeah, noted that from the very beginning
02:08.39tc-ruchoit's just that having a nice language within mged itself would be nice for batch stuff
02:09.05Ralithtc-rucho: making the system scripting language independent
02:09.14brlcadwe're not getting "rid" of tcl for various reasons, but certainly want to allow other interpreter environments
02:09.18Ralithi.e. make it straightforward to slot in w/e
02:09.35brlcadexactly
02:09.59tc-ruchowell, in that case it would be nice to have some lisp dialect as an interpreter too
02:10.05brlcadpart of the libged framework is to make it a generalized command functionality library that could be tied into any interpreter environment
02:11.07tc-ruchoI like that, so a couple of bindings here and there and one could almost use BF as a command interpreter (just kidding)
02:11.11brlcadinitial goal will be to support tcl and bash, and then python and lisp, at least as a starting point
02:11.33brlcadthat should generalize the interface sufficiently to support most languages we'd care to bind to
02:11.43tc-ruchosure
02:12.16brlcadplus it covers procedural, functional, and OO as well as interactive and non-interactive parsing
02:12.54brlcad(in terms of a flexible api)
02:13.04tc-ruchoyou have any dialect in mind for the lisp environment?
02:13.16brlcadnot presently
02:13.29brlcadclisp, elisp
02:14.07tc-ruchoIn terms of implementation quality, I'd stick to SBCL (common lisp) on unixoid systems, and maybe clisp for winblows
02:15.17tc-ruchoanyway, seems this could get pretty interesting. I'd say I'm in (:
02:15.24brlcadone of the main points of picking up a lisp environment would be to provide something similar to autolisp
02:15.40brlcadawesome, glad to hear it!
02:15.58brlcadhope you stick to it even after you see how much work is involved ;)
02:16.26brlcadgood stuff, though, lots of fun and one of the best code bases to make a big impact
02:17.15tc-ruchoas soon as I can get a lisp environment things will get really nice 9In 9My 9Opinion
02:17.55tc-ruchohowever, I'm definitely not enforcing OO in the lisp environment, it's... ugly
02:21.34brlcadno no, I meant supporting OO semantics for languages like python/ruby/etc
02:21.48brlcadwouldn't sully lisp with that
02:22.07brlcadmight not even sully the other langs with that, depends on how the bindings happen
02:23.16brlcadultimately could just wrap everything in a ged object and do a pass through with a method for every function if it's a strict OO language
02:25.47tc-ruchoanyway, I have some proposals for the lisp environment, but bindings come first
02:26.12tc-ruchomore specifically, a slight GUI change
02:27.16tc-ruchothat would allow keybindings and access to the command prompt in the same window without any extra hassle
02:27.51tc-ruchoanyway, I should continue with my studies, I have a huge exam in a pair of days
02:30.09brlcadheh, actually we're looking at a rather major GUI change, but that's a ways down the road
02:30.57brlcadhave to do a variety of mged refactorings first, libged cleanup, tcl decoupling, finish implementing BREP support, geometry engine support, geometry service support, then the gui has something solid to talk to
02:31.14brlcadthere is a prototype interface hooked in already that a gsoc student worked on last summer
02:31.37brlcadgood luck with your exam tc-rucho !
02:33.40tc-ruchonods
02:34.14tc-ruchobrlcad: what text editor do you use?
02:34.33brlcaddepends what I'm doing, but usually emacs
02:36.03tc-ruchowell, some _wild_ idea for a GUI would be to have most used commands as single letter commands, and then have some stuff like C-x and C-c
02:36.26tc-ruchobut maybe people would not feel that comfortable with it
02:36.43tc-ruchoanyway, was just a quick wild thought
02:37.18brlcadthere's a whole design philosophy about making the interface pervasively modeless, only allowing quasimodalities for context-specific actions
02:37.46brlcadthere's a prototype interaction video that one of the devs worked on that I'm using as a sort of "starting point" goal
02:38.00tc-rucholink?
02:38.33brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/design/gui/
02:38.44brlcadioe_proto_final.mov is a good starting point
02:39.23brlcadtakes about 5 minutes
02:39.52brlcadit was intionally made non-CAD-centric, but the basic design philosophies still apply
02:42.12brlcad~ioe
02:42.19tc-ruchoI think about brlcad as a rough diamond. It has an awesome 3d framework and all, but it lacks a good GUI 9In 9My 9Humble 9Opinion
02:46.05brlcadagreed
02:46.30brlcadthat's why it's one of our four top project priorities
02:46.40brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/BRL-CAD_Priorities.png
02:46.59brlcadwith the other three priorities directly and indirectly supporting it
02:49.05brlcadstarseeker: I think I must recall my victory claim.. I'm getting the Tcl_Init error again, so there must be more needed (and my test earlier must not have been a clean test)
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04:00.10yukonbobhello, cadheads
05:04.44starseekerbrlcad:  arrrgh.  Is it something to do with the tcl upgrade?
05:05.33starseekertried to step through all the changes, but may have missed something...
05:27.34brlcadstarseeker: that's when it started, and it's a problem I recall needing to be patched the past couple times we've done a tcl upgrade
05:30.35brlcadcan't say for certain without dishing through a whole debugging session, and trying to avoid spending the time to do that frankly
05:30.52starseekerbrlcad:  arrrgh
05:30.56starseeker``Erik:  help
05:31.06starseekeryou recall what was needed in the last couple tcl upgrades?
05:33.14brlcadi'll go through a clean rebuild here to see if maybe the failure earlier today was a false positive
05:33.30starseeker]it's distcheck that's failing?
05:33.42brlcadtest fails
05:34.22brlcadspecific to doing a make test prior to (ever) doing a make install -- it'll look in /usr/brlcad so have to make sure there isn't an install there already
05:34.28starseekerIs it MacOSX only?  It seems to work here
05:34.32starseekeroh
05:34.36starseekerdid a make install
05:34.59brlcadone of the sanity checks to make sure in-tree execution works cleanly pulling the right files
05:35.30starseekerOh, I see it now
05:35.49brlcadit's not a release stopper
05:36.02brlcadbut it shouldn't linger (assuming it is new/returned)
05:36.58brlcadcould try a 7.14.0 to see if it has the problem
05:37.06starseekerok
05:37.23brlcadmaybe it was broken during the prior upgrade and just coincidentally noticed
05:38.08starseekeris bothered he didn't get it patched with that last effort
05:38.53brlcadyou fixed a whole slew of other issues that would have come up, though
05:38.59brlcadso good you did anyways
05:39.13starseekerthanks, but it makes this one all the more vexing
05:39.27brlcad1/10th the time to find/fix now than to have someone else spend all day rehunting each one ;)
05:39.35starseeker:-)
05:39.51starseekermakes a note to join the tcl dev email lists and start making some noise
05:40.00starseekergrumble
05:40.15starseekernot that I had a lot of luck with gentoo
05:40.43brlcadgentoo is so close, should be able to finish it up now
05:41.16starseekerassuming they don't just leave it to the gentoo-science overlay
05:41.26brlcadnods
05:41.51brlcadhaven't seen a build log in a while to know if there's anything else that needs changed
05:42.05brlcadI took care of most of the issues I knew about
05:42.11starseekerI haven't tried to do a system build in a long while - it might work now
05:42.43brlcadit should work as a --disable-all now without a problem
05:42.50starseekercool :-)
05:43.05starseekerwill test that once the make test bug is hunted down
05:43.15brlcadincrTcl init was the last straggler, and that should be taken care of
05:43.23starseekerawesome
05:43.31brlcadthere are still the naming conflicts, but that's for later to allow subdir relinking
05:43.55starseekerbrlcad:  Oh, that reminds me - bob said you wrote the libtclcad auto_path command
05:44.10starseekerdid that change I made cause any trouble?
05:44.16brlcadthe function, yeah
05:44.45brlcadwhat change?
05:44.57starseekerlet me check
05:45.21starseekerr33845
05:46.00brlcadoh yeah, that one..
05:48.09brlcad"probably" only because tclcadAutoPath() is mostly supposed to allow relocation overrides and source-dir executions to work, not serve as install defaults
05:48.29brlcadif it works, it'll be because of how it searches for relocation execution
05:49.12brlcadcan't say for sure, though ..
05:50.16starseekerok.  If it breaks anything I'll revert it - it sidestepped what I was running into, but it's still not clear to my why auto_path had the system paths in the first place
05:50.32starseekermaybe it's related to why make test isn't working, for that matter...
05:50.44brlcadI think the latter is a different problem, and the one that needed fixing -- why it got system paths in the first place
05:51.15brlcadthink that implies that it didn't load the right init.tcl to start with or didn't link the right lib to start with
05:51.24brlcadwhich are different problems
05:51.51starseekerIs that our build system or the tcl/tk level logic?
05:52.47brlcadwouldn't be the build system -- could be run-time ld paths or tcl init logic
05:53.53brlcadyou can check the ld linkage easily enough (otool -L or ldd)
05:54.23brlcadcan check the init logic by breaking in Tcl_Init() and seeing which init.tcl is loaded
05:57.06starseekerldd looks OK
06:04.37brlcadnotes that Bob cheated horribly in src/mged/setup.c
06:11.30starseekerbrlcad:  did we need to explicitly set tcl_library?
06:11.35starseekerwas that the patch?
06:19.03starseekerummm.... 7.14.0 on my machine is trying to use /usr/include/tk.h when compiling bombardier.c
06:28.17brlcaddifferent issue
06:28.37brlcadsrc/util/Makefile.am, add TK_CPPFLAGS to bombardier
06:37.08CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33887 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: default the ogl interface to off until the various bugs are all fixed. it's unusable as-is due to said bugs and is just complicating the support questions.
06:37.08CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33890 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
06:37.08CIA-40BRL-CAD: Bob added a new 'gqa' command to mged that runs the formerly command-line-only
06:37.08CIA-40BRL-CAD: 'g_qa' command including the addition of a new -Ap option that will visualize
06:37.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: the overlaps encountered as a series of wireframe edges similar to rtcheck.
06:37.12CIA-40BRL-CAD: should rename one of the two to make running the tool self-consistent inside and
06:37.14CIA-40BRL-CAD: outside of mged.
06:37.20CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33888 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS TODO): bob fixed the mged view initialization bugs where it was starting up under a top view instead of 3525 with no faceplate initialization. should be mostly all better now.
07:05.18brlcadnotes warnings on nmg_fix_normals
07:13.05CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33891 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (178 files):
07:13.05CIA-40BRL-CAD: whew, that is brutal.. tedius header cleanup to denote private headers as
07:13.05CIA-40BRL-CAD: private (and in the own section) using relative path syntax. also make sure
07:13.05CIA-40BRL-CAD: bio.h comes after the system headers but is listed with system headers (it's
07:13.06CIA-40BRL-CAD: sort of a wrapper around stdio).
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13:13.44starseekerbrlcad:  I'll be out one more day, I'm afraid :-(
13:15.51starseekerd-lo: I can't find the email addresses - could you do me a favor and send out an email again?
13:17.49d-lostarseeker: shore thang.
13:17.55starseekerthanks :-)
13:27.23d-lonp
13:55.52brlcadstarseeker: okay, np
14:07.21``Erikstarseeker: the only caveat with tcl and tk was that one line in tcl/generic/tclInt.h iirc, tk "just worked". incr is a bit of a different story
14:08.32``Erikwas under the impression that elisp had grevious differences to cl (stuff like scope handling, basic function names, etc), but kinda remembers reading that autolisp was weird, too *shrug*
14:09.06``Eriksupposedly, CLOS can do all t he oo type things that ruby and python can, plus a slew of other neat stuff like generic funcs
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14:20.11tc-rucho``Erik: CLOS is an awesome OO system, it does not use messages, it uses generic functions. However, I find OO rather ugly in Lisp. It's like jailing/restricting oneself rather than liberating
14:20.36tc-ruchoOO in lisp usually leads to code that's really difficult to track
14:21.07``Erikhm, I'm more of a scheme weenie, I've only used clos just enough to get a basic ucw thingy working :)
14:22.47tc-ruchowell, I use common lisp as my main lisp dialect, and I really never needed CLOS, it made things more difficult actually, and heavily OO code made using CLOS was hell to figure out.
14:23.13tc-ruchonot even the original authors were able to keep track of it in order to fix some stuff, blame CLOS
14:23.36tc-ruchoso I would be happier if we stick to just lists for the bindings and all
14:23.38tc-rucho.
14:25.16``Erik*shrug* I still plan on learning it, I've heard arguments both ways so mebbe I'll find it a handy tool for certain problems, mebbe not
14:26.02tc-ruchopoints to the second alternative
14:26.09tc-ruchoanyway
14:26.28``Erikbut yeah, with scheme I felt like the combination of lists, vectors, and assocs is probably 'sufficient'
14:27.37tc-ruchohave it your way, give it a try, try to code something complex, then archive it and look at it again in about 2 months, and if by any chance you can follow the CLOS code easier than if it used just lists, I would like some good argument about why use it
14:27.46tc-ruchoright
14:28.01``Erikwe'll see *shrug* :)
14:28.04tc-rucholists and assocs are all one needs
14:28.06tc-rucho(:
14:28.07starseekerbrlcad:  I'm seeing failures in the test script that appear to be caused by the messing "Using Tcl library at..." being printed
14:28.19brlcadstarseeker: yeah, I know about those
14:28.24brlcadit's benign
14:28.38starseekerbut otherwise, the MGED tests seem to run
14:28.43brlcadit's because the script just takes the output of ? and help as-is
14:29.11brlcadand there are a variety of debug and output messages that can appear before the command list
14:29.32starseekerOK - so the failure you're worried about is something different then
14:29.45brlcadif there was consistent stderr/stdout separation, could handle it, but there's not so it is what it is
14:29.45tc-rucho``Erik: by the way, what scheme implementation do you prefer? I really haven't toyed with scheme (mainly because fucken scsh needs some scheme implementation for 32bit only)
14:30.27``Erikgauche usually, used to use guile but it's performance was ... poor. have toyed with chicken and bigloo a little, and mzscheme isn't too bad
14:30.39brlcadstarseeker: yeah, the error is something different -- Tcl_Init failure
14:30.55starseekerso far I can't reproduce that here
14:31.08brlcadon old or new or both?
14:31.15starseekeranywhere
14:31.16tc-rucho``Erik: I find mzscheme (drscheme?) kind of bloated. Wasn't gauche a scheme -> C implementation?
14:31.20starseekerer, either
14:31.25brlcadthought you encountered it yesterday?
14:31.31brlcadwhen you removed the installed version
14:31.42``Erikno, gauche is an interpreter, um, shiro.dreamhost.com or something
14:31.46starseekerno, that was the complaint I just mentioned
14:32.01``Erikthe interpreter is "gosh"
14:32.33starseeker``Erik:  then the compiler had better be "darnit" ;-)
14:33.13``Erikno, there's no straight compiler component, I don't know if it can save bytecode images, either :/ I used it for q&d scripty type thangs mostly
14:33.41tc-ruchohohoho, awesome name for a lisp-family interpreter
14:34.56brlcadstarseeker: i'm giving it a clean retry now
14:35.17brlcadsee what you get with this on a clean tree, it'll .. take a while
14:35.38brlcadrm -rf /usr/brlcad && sh autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-all && make distclean && sh autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-all && make -j4 && make test
14:35.45brlcadnotice the rm -rf in case you need it..
14:36.31brlcadif that works for you, then we can call it a closed issue
14:36.52``Erikhm, rm -rf /usr/brlcad/* would be better, so the /usr/brlcad directory stays and doens't need rootage to recreate it :D
14:37.52brlcadmeh
14:39.54starseeker``Erik:  on my home box, no matter
14:39.56tc-rucho``Erik: although it's not a really big problem, I've always felt more comfortable with false being just nil and true being T, instead of #t and #f. Also SBCL is a kick-ass implementation that compiles to native code (not to mention that CL uses different spaces for functions and data so a var and a function can share the same name)
14:41.55starseekertc-rucho: Oh, he's an SBCL fan :-)
14:42.09starseekerso am I
14:42.20tc-ruchostarseeker: good (:
14:42.21``Erikis using sbcl on fbsd for ucw :)
14:43.02tc-ruchothen it's going to be Common Lisp (SBCL), right?
14:43.14tc-ruchoI thought that had not been decided yet
14:43.30``Erikfor BRL-CAD, it's not
14:43.35``Eriknot decided, that is
14:43.44``Erikthis is for a private project
14:43.57starseekerucw = UnCommon Web
14:44.22starseekerucw is... odd
14:44.33starseekerat least as far as getting it working
14:44.59d-lono no no no....ucw = http://www.ultimatechristianwrestling.com/
14:45.04``ErikYOU'RE odd! :D naw, the continuation based web framework model seems neato to me
14:45.34``Erikyou may've spent a little TOO long in the navy, d-lo.
14:45.46starseekerd-lo: that's gotta be in the top five "URLs I never thought I'd see" list
14:47.47d-lolol, blame google.  #2 on the list.
14:47.58starseekerbrlcad:  no point in my doing -j4 on a 2 core machine, yes?
14:48.18brlcadwhomever works on making the lisp interface actually work will probably be the main deciding factor on which lisp is used ;)
14:48.26``Erikbest bang is probably -j3, I'd guess
14:48.36brlcadso if you want sbcl, someone needs to get busy ;)
14:49.02starseekeralrightie, the clean test is running
14:49.04brlcadstarseeker: yeah, j3 is probably best, but doesn't matter much
14:49.23brlcaddistclean or clean?
14:49.40starseekerthe sequence you gave above
14:50.01starseekerautogen, distclean, etc.
14:50.31starseekercould still be a mac specific issue though
14:50.50starseeker``Erik:  Did you see any major patches to tcl that I missed in that big roundup?
14:51.32``ErikI didn't see your big roundup... :D the only trick was the line in tclInt.h or something
14:51.46``Eriklast I did it, anyways... they may've made things more interesting
14:52.26starseekererm
14:52.44starseekerBob had some Windows specific tweaks in there, and there was some SGI/IRIX makefile logic
14:52.57starseekeror tweaks at least
14:53.20starseekerplus the fix for doc install paths from the gentoo bug
14:53.44starseekeroh well, no matter
14:54.05starseekerit could very well be that 8.5.6 itself introduced a new quirk all on its own
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15:37.16starseekerbrlcad:  OK, I see it now
15:45.20CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33892 10/brlcad/trunk/ (69 files in 3 dirs): Upgraded libpng to 1.2.35.
15:45.32starseekerIt looks like we need to set tcl_library somewhere
15:45.52starseekeror set the TCL_LIBRARY environment variable
15:49.30starseekerbased on svn diff, offhand I don't see any change pertaining to tcl_library that could have an impact
16:03.00``Erikhrm
16:08.23starseekergrr:  http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m3037d4dd
16:11.48starseekerexport TCL_LIBRARY=../src/other/tcl/library prior to make test does succeed
16:19.14starseekerthe difficulty is where should it be set, and how to conditionalize its setting on BUILD_TCL being true
16:27.10``Eriksweet, I done broke the libpng stuff :D
16:27.29d-loawesome!  The dishes are done man!
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17:01.37brlcadstarseeker: additionally, tclcadAutoPath() tries to set tcl_library too, could be some interplay going on
17:01.54brlcadgood to see that the problem can be reproduced, though
17:02.09brlcadstarseeker: did you test that with 7.14.0 too?
17:02.41brlcadif it fails for 7.14.0, then it's not nearly as important to address now .. just don't want to take steps backwards if it's new
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17:56.14brlcad``Erik: build failures in libpng's Makefile.am
17:56.40``Erikhm, cia is being slow
17:56.44``ErikI  fixed it a few minutes ago
17:56.54brlcadcool, k
17:58.30``Erikjabs cia a few times
17:58.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33893 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/libpng/ (Makefile.am autogen.sh config.h.in configure.ac): revert back to our Makefile.am and remove the leftover autoconf crud.
17:58.38``Erikthere it goes heh
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18:42.12CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33894 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/gqa.c: ', ' doesn't make a lot of sense, hope it's supposed to be ','
18:44.34brlcad``Erik possible to get an isst screenshot today?
18:44.52brlcadcould use something glitzy to show off
18:45.10``Erikshow off for what?
18:45.34brlcadpresentation putting together
18:46.26``Eriksure, gimme a few to back out a change
18:46.39``Erikthe, uh,
18:48.22``Erikheh, I blew up my BRL-CAD
18:49.39brlcadstarseeker: similarly, do you have access to a copy of what you brought to the ccb that you could send my way?
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20:21.08brlcadstarseeker: never mind, I pulled images from elsewhere
20:22.22``Erikis half interested in how his images will be used if'n there's time to show the slides off
20:23.01brlcadused two of them
20:23.53``Erikassumes the t62 and the depth render went away?
20:25.05brlcadgood guess
20:25.59``Erikbut but but the old tank had the dropdown menu showing the modes, and the depth render looks, y'know, all futuristic! :D
20:28.40brlcadonly have a 15 min total, there are already two min slotted to adrt .. if I put more, it'll lose effect
20:28.47``Erikok
20:28.50brlcadtwo is pushing it, really needs to be one, but I think I can talk to it
20:28.54brlcadas two
20:29.10``Eriklemme know if you need info
20:31.35brlcadk
20:31.45brlcadgoing with data from last quarter
20:33.17``Erikhm, almost everything has been internal, though my current activity is to make it can run in 'local' mode (just run a binary and go, single process with 2 threads)
21:34.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33896 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: Added a declaration for ged_build_tops.
21:35.19CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33895 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtienet/load_MySQL.c: temporarily disable the converter ...
21:37.23CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33897 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/libged/libged.vcproj: Added nmg_fix_normals.c to libged's windows build.
21:37.41CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33898 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/generic/tclInt.h: Move include for common.h after Tcl includes. This gets rid of warnings about redefining O_BINARY and O_TEMPORARY.
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22:04.42brlcadhm, distcheck is still busted
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22:33.38brlcadgood catch on the ','
22:33.54brlcadautomated cleanup went afoul
22:34.03``Erikmake -s makes it really easy
22:34.46``Erikthere're others I skipped, they looked less odd (like const char *argv[] ... char *blah = argv[1]; )
22:35.09``Erikmy distcheck breaks on not knowing how to aclocal heh
22:39.14brlcadI looked and was mistaken on the export5 for bot's using nmg_fix_normals
22:39.57``Erikyeh, *shrug* I implemented what was discussed, I saw no easy way to do a fix_normals on an arbitrary bot, I think ed was right
22:40.21``ErikI don't think bot strongly enforces being a closed solid, it's just all our conversions to bot happen to come from solids
22:40.32``Erikvia nmg topology testing
22:41.00``Erikat least from something like facetize :)
22:41.14brlcadit's not strongly enforced but it is enforced
22:41.27``Erikat the bot level, or the nmg level?
22:41.29brlcadthe bot mode
22:41.33brlcadas a bot
22:41.37``Erikah, hum
22:41.39brlcadRT_BOT_SURFACE
22:41.47brlcadRT_BOT_SOLID
22:41.51brlcadRT_BOT_PLATE, etc
22:41.55``Erikaight
22:42.14``ErikI knew we had plate, I was fairly certain we could have abitrary bots as well (surface, I guess)
22:42.15brlcadif it's a solid, it should convert directly to an nmg
22:42.42brlcadthere is an nmg-bot converter, could turn that into a routine and make a bot-nmg routine
22:42.53brlcadthen turn bot into nmg, fix normals, then back to bot
22:43.07brlcador make a bot_fix_normals that just does the same algorithm on the bot structure
22:43.13``Erikguess that depends on the pro-e and iges converter shtuff, d-lo seemed to have opinions as he just recently went through the pain and suffering with that little pickup
22:43.14brlcadfairly simple algo
22:43.39``Erikhas to hammer out the adrt/isst stuff yesterday :/
22:44.43brlcadtrue dat
22:58.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33899 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged.sh:
22:58.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: quell the false-positive ERROR lines about "Using Tcl library at
22:58.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: /path/to/something" since it's just diagnostic output. that message is only
22:58.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: printed in debug builds and is one of a variety of diagnostic messages that
22:58.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: could get displayed. still, quell the one we know will be shown.
23:00.31brlcadstarseeker: I think I found the problem
23:00.39brlcadand I think it's new
23:01.03brlcadmged isn't failing with that message, g_diff is
23:01.45starseekeris impressed
23:01.50starseekerand groggy
23:01.55starseekeryou got the pics you need?
23:04.37brlcadyep
23:08.48*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177680864.dsl.bell.ca)
23:10.37brlcadIriX64: you're voiceless until you do something constructive, sorry
23:10.54brlcadsend me a PM if you'd like to discuss it
23:11.13brlcadotherwise, welcome to lurk and listen
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23:50.28``Erikguess he didn't like that
23:55.12brlcadhe was talking to me in private
23:55.16brlcadhe's okay with it
23:56.05``Erikbut is he going to wrap up, say, the version thing on mged? i'ts what, 4 lines of code, he was almost done, still no patch? :)
23:56.31``Erikor at least start writing up docs, we have an awful lot that need to be written at least in draft form
23:59.42brlcadprobably not, he'd need a lot more hand-holding and someone telling him exactly what to do next
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090225

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090225

00:01.25*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-71.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
00:03.20CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33900 10/brlcad/trunk/ (TODO doc/deprecation.txt): need to refactor tcl initialization out of mged/bwish and into libtclcad so that both can use the same logic, which g_diff needs too. deprecate all of the g_ command names to remove their underscores.
00:46.02CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33901 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/libpng/ (Makefile.am autogen.sh config.h.in configure.ac): revert r33893 deletion of autogen.sh, config.h.in, and configure.ac to keep the sources closer to pristine (and more importantly to unbreak distcheck). probably could make libpng a proper subconfigure.
00:48.10``Erikoh, woops :) it wasn't a subconfig, so I figured I'd purge the cruft
00:48.26``Erikoh, I forgot to clean up EXTRA_DIST, hurrr
00:58.39CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33902 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/libpng/Makefile.am: guess new png doesn't have an aclocal.m4 any longer either, or it wasn't included.
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02:32.58yukonbobhello, cadheads
03:56.58*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
05:33.11brlcadhowdy yukonbob
05:45.56yukonbobhow're tricks, brlcad ?
05:46.05yukonbob...and how stable is HEAD
05:46.06yukonbob?
05:48.56brlcadlooks like it's a lot better now
05:49.09brlcadall the major issues should be fixed plus a few more
05:49.21yukonbobwas vaguely following the drama ;0
05:49.23yukonbob:)
05:49.36yukonbobtakes the oppotunity to sync
05:49.53brlcadgood to get shaken up every now and then, one of the reasons for sticking to a fixed release schedule
05:50.10brlcadobligated to uncover and fix things that might otherwise go unnoticed
05:51.42yukonbobthis ties into what I was asking you about other day (re: committing b0rken code)... if one is doing a lot of rough hacking.... would you a) commit every once in a while to capture the 'spirit' of the development, even if it's broken b) commit only after it's fleshed-out and reasonably stable c) you'd never hack like that in-tree
05:52.46yukonbobd) pudding
07:00.22PrezKennedye) all of the above
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09:00.40_sushi_I wonder how much real practical value this has: http://brlcad.org/wiki/Hex
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11:26.32d-lo_sushi_: I would say 'some value'.  It would be much more useful if you tied in some of the brlcad libs and made a .g directly instead of forcing users to perform an additional conversion step.
11:27.34_sushi_Then it wouldn't work without BRL-CAD
11:27.47_sushi_Can you link GPL code with LGPL libraries?
11:27.53_sushi_I guess yes...
11:28.19d-loYou can use LGPL libs in a GPL project... just not the otherway around.
11:28.23_sushi_d-lo: the user can load an ascii file
11:29.03_sushi_File -> Import -> ASCII Database
11:29.42d-locorrect, however if your code is already generating the required memory structs, then it would be super easy to make hex an MGED command and forego the import completely.  Just my $0.02
11:30.24_sushi_Yes but they won't take it because it's GPL
11:30.30_sushi_and I won't make my code LGPL
11:30.45d-loWhere does it say its GPL?  I saw no lisence anywhere....
11:31.46d-loIf it is GPL, you might wanna update the hex.c on the wiki.
11:32.15_sushi_Ah I didn't do svn update on my home computer and then automatically rsynced old version without the GPL header again
11:32.33_sushi_Now it's fixed
11:33.01d-lookay.  Mind if I ask why you 'won't make your code LGPL' ?
11:33.11d-loNot to pressure, just curios.
11:33.15d-locurious.
11:33.18_sushi_Because I am giving it for free
11:33.48_sushi_I want people to behave fair that means if I give it for free they should give their code for free too
11:33.54_sushi_GPL requires that, LGPL doesn't
11:34.30d-loOkie, thanks!
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12:27.38d-lo_sushi_: I am reading up on Ronja.  Personally, I think its pretty damned cool.  But I have a question:  Is range directly proportional to lense width?
12:28.57archivistno gain
12:29.32archivistwidth for a good lens will be proportional to gain though
12:29.33_sushi_d-lo: thanks
12:30.23_sushi_d-lo: right. Range is proportional to the square root of the signal strength. And signal strength is proportional to square of lens width.
12:30.33_sushi_d-lo: this is however a simplification, assuming clear air
12:31.36_sushi_Ronja is supposed to work in light fog, which has additional exponential relation between path travelled and attenuation
12:32.25_sushi_We are talking about transmitter lens here.
12:32.44_sushi_With receiver is more complicated because larger lens constitutes a large "window" that allows ambient light on the detector
12:32.54_sushi_And ambient light creates noise, except in the night.
12:33.15d-loheh, well that makes sense :)
12:33.41_sushi_Now a larger receiver lens often has a different focal length or even may need a larger photodiode to accomodate for more blurry focus
12:33.45_sushi_and then things go very complicate
12:33.53_sushi_and it has to be measured using a bench
12:34.19archivistmirror lens could be better
12:34.24_sushi_right
12:34.32_sushi_the best would be large astronimical mirror
12:35.03_sushi_unfortunately they are extremely expensive
12:36.02_sushi_An increase in range can be also achieved by making the receiver tube longer
12:36.17_sushi_That needs lens with less dioptries and they tend to have sharper image
12:36.28_sushi_And longer tube means relatively less ambient light for the photodiode
12:36.45_sushi_But it's impractical to have a long tube on the roof
12:38.36d-loHow proactical is it to have a squared off 'u' tube with mirrors at 45 degree angles inside?  Cuts down on the spaced used on the roof....
12:38.51d-loHoly Bad Spelling Batman....
12:39.14_sushi_I once already thought about that
12:39.18_sushi_I think it might be a practical idea
12:39.37_sushi_Modern float glass mirror have very good quality regarding garage quality usage
12:39.55_sushi_You could point horizontally by simply turning the pipe
12:40.03_sushi_And vertically by tilting the mirror inside
12:40.19_sushi_On roof you often have an access to a wall or chimney
12:40.42_sushi_You could mount this even on an aerial mast
12:42.23brlcadsome would argue that your code derives additional value of itself when it is used by others, so imposing on someone else's license makes for an unfair exchange
12:42.33brlcadit'd only be fair if you also used their code in yours (in which case there is no practical lgpl/gpl difference)
12:43.18brlcadby someone using a code, that code benefits by reuse, publicity, affirmation, etc
12:43.48brlcadto claim it's unfair is dubious at best
12:44.10d-lo_sushi_: What about having the lense focus the beam into fiber optics?
12:44.42_sushi_d-lo: why?
12:45.04d-lodoes that achieve a 'longer tube length?
12:45.25_sushi_the length of the fibre doesn't count
12:46.02d-lokk
12:46.09_sushi_THe advantage comes from the fact that the ambient light dissipates with square of the distance from the viewing port
12:46.23_sushi_And if it is captured into a fibre it just runs along the fibre and doesn't dissipate anymore
12:46.47d-loSo having a 'W' shaped tube would be even better than a 'U' or an 'N'
12:47.29_sushi_Aha I thought you were talking about one vertical pipe with a 90 degree mirror on the top
12:48.03_sushi_Well W would be better yes but it would also have to be thicker
12:48.28d-loNo, several bends so as to minimize the 'long tube on the roof' issue.
12:48.40d-lomornin brlcad !
12:49.33brlcad'lo lo
12:49.44d-loslaps knee.... HA!
12:50.06brlcadwhat'd that knee ever do to you!
12:50.30d-logives out at the most inconvient times :/
12:51.01brlcadbut it's always been there for you, trying to support you ;)
12:51.39brlcadwhat have you done for it lately?
12:51.45d-loI know, and I'm greatful.  But a little forewarning would be nice.
12:51.50brlcadbet you didn't even get it anything for it's birthday
12:52.17d-loLike hell I didn't! :)  Nice warm soak in the hot tub.
12:52.31brlcadso you tried to drown it, eh?
12:52.50d-loNo, although I have been tempted on occasion.
12:53.58brlcadnext you'll be trying to sell it on a burlap sack with "special" rocks
12:54.08brlcadthey weren't so special for Mittens
12:54.22d-loNow thats disturbing on many levels.....
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14:50.00``ErikO.o
14:58.38``Erikwonders if the main page of the wiki should have hex removed and third party utilities added
15:04.46``Erikyukonbob: I like to commit fairly frequently and if I have code I know to be busted in some fashion, I wrap it in a #if 0/#endif.
15:20.44brlcad``Erik probably
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16:07.19starseekerregains consciousness
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17:14.08``Erik"twitter is like IRC, except there's only one channel, and everybody's on ignore by default" hehehe
17:14.58brlcadheh
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17:20.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33903 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/tclstub/tclstub.vcproj: Added ../../../src/other/tcl/win to AdditionalIncludeDirectories.
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17:41.20groovyOrangeCan I get new 7.14.2 command reference without the source code, as one file?
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22:26.12hippieindamakin8hey brlcad
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03:51.42brlcadhowdy hippieindamakin8
04:07.19PrezKennedyhey brlcad!
04:33.07brlcadhola
04:33.12brlcadhow many left
04:33.14brlcad?
05:08.37PrezKennedy2 classes, 2 driving sessions
05:08.38PrezKennedythank God
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08:03.14brlcadcool
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18:07.47``Erikyay comcast
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19:08.46PrezKennedycomc-ass-tic
19:08.56PrezKennedy;)
19:09.36PrezKennedybrlcad, im pushing work along... looks like we'll be getting a couple macbooks soon :)
19:39.16brlcadPrezKennedy: be sure to get Pro if it's for business
19:40.27PrezKennedythey wont pay the cash for that
19:40.29brlcadthey parts go through much more extensive reliability testing, makes up the price difference quickly in reduced downtime (at least the rate)
19:41.14brlcadI frankly wouldn't buy one then, it's a riskier situation support-wise
19:41.31brlcadeven if it meant getting half as many
19:41.55brlcadyou can calculate how many hours that 1k or so price difference will cost in man-hours
19:42.37brlcadand having a hardware failure rate go from something like 99% to 99.9%  (hypothetically)
19:43.29PrezKennedytheyre only getting 2 for us to get certs on and become familiar with the system and use... i dont think the .9% will matter too much
19:44.32brlcadah, that's a little better at least if there's not business relying on it, but I'd still suggest trying to make a case for the pro's instead of the consumer-grade versions
19:44.34PrezKennedywhen we do a contract or something im sure theyll go the pricey route
19:44.48brlcadeven feature-wise for certification, the non-pro's lack a few features
19:44.58PrezKennedylike what?
19:45.39PrezKennedyi really have to pitch it good for them to fork twice as much for one machine
19:48.29brlcaddepending on what you need to certify, the memory limits are much higher for the pros, the superdrive, high-res displays, diff graphics cards (integrated intel vs ati radeon), more vid memory, large display support (30" cinemas), high speed firewire, different power supplies, ..
19:48.46brlcadfew other port differences
19:50.45brlcadsome of that is dated, so you'd have to check the latest specs
19:51.01brlcade.g. they're no longer on those graphics cards, and the new unibody design changed a few things
19:53.10brlcadhm, quick glance at their tech specs, they did close the gap a little bit with the unibodies
19:53.35brlcadso not quite as drastic a difference, but I'd still be hesitant to get the non pro for reliability reasons alone
19:58.28``Erikum
19:58.51``Eriknew macbooks have superdrives and nvidia cards that can drive I believe 30"
19:59.32brlcadyeah, the diff is a lot smaller on the video side now
19:59.50``Erikthe big difference for me when I bought my macbook was the screen size and firewire... I like the small formfactor and don't use firewire, so *shrug* whatever :)
19:59.57brlcadtwice the memory, and both nvidia (though one is a 9600 and one a 9200 or something)
20:00.12brlcadfor personal use, I think either is great
20:00.21``Erikthe pros have a dual gpu that swaps based on need, but the little one is pretty smoking for the games I play
20:00.41brlcadit's easy to take the risk, there's no "downtime" really if it breaks, at least not any that affects a "bottom-line"
20:00.57brlcadfor a business though, that's money and time lost that is easily recovered with a mere 1k price diff
20:01.44``Erikdifferent failure rate? source pls? cite? </wikipediazi>
20:07.40CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33904 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: Undo clearing of auto_path in libtclcad - need general re-evaluation of how auto_path is being handled.
20:07.50brlcadthat would require effort
20:07.54brlcadhttp://www.macintouch.com/reliability/macbooks2.html
20:08.07brlcadunscientific and subject to bias, but sounds about right from what we've seen
20:08.24brlcadthe 15" line was bad, but the newer ones are outstanding
20:09.55brlcadbeing twice as susceptible to failure between non-pro and pro is pretty significant for business use, imnsho
20:10.16brlcadthere was other reports I read elsewhere from published support requests, but don't have the link handy
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20:11.25brlcadand it's all still pretty insanely higher reliability than the failure rates of other manufacturers iirc
20:11.31brlcadah yeah, http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9044618
20:11.49PrezKennedyalright well i e-mailed the decision makers...
20:11.55PrezKennedymaybe theyll go for it, but i doubt it
20:12.22brlcadcan't hurt to ask, worse they can say is "no" :)
20:12.41PrezKennedyknowing them we'll end up with two mac mini's
20:12.49PrezKennedythe low end ones
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20:14.20brlcadheh
20:14.32brlcadsounds like a mini cluster!
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20:19.31PrezKennedyit can be a little frustrating
20:31.55``Erikhm, those macbooks with the core duos look like only the first gen plastic ones, not the metal ones
20:52.44PrezKennedybrlcad, i send you a message
20:52.53PrezKennedy*sent... whoops
20:52.54PrezKennedy;)
21:03.35brlcadnotes distcheck is busted
21:04.22brlcadwonder if cruisecontrol can be configured to email the entire log
21:05.27CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33905 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/libpng/Makefile.am: more extra dist bustage
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21:16.31CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33906 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/coil.c: Start getting user supplied input working for coil
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22:11.50brlcadwoot, distcheck fixed
22:12.09brlcadjust in time for release ma?ana
22:18.51CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33907 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/coil.c: Get helix angle working in the coil tool
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23:12.58CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33908 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/coil.c: Get squared, grounded caps working in coil.
23:31.11CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33909 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/coil.c: Add grounded (unsquared) caps to coil
23:31.19starseekerer, whoops - ground not grounded
23:48.13Ralithwell, ground is generally grounded.
23:52.22starseekernot if it's a spring ;-)
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00:22.50CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33910 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/coil.c: OK, can specify different ending types for the coil now - getting close
00:31.35CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33911 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/coil.c: OK, probably not all the cleanup needed for freeing things in coil but its a start
01:51.45PrezKennedywoo one more driving class to go
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02:32.56``Erikw00t, then it's off to the slave mines to afford a car, insurance, gas, etc :D
02:48.59``Erikhuh, did malcolm mcdowell just call tony blair the queen of england?
02:55.45``Erikhttp://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=2627&d=1
03:03.10madant:O http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=3759
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05:37.31brlcadhowdy madant
05:37.55brlcad``Erik: hehe, nice
05:38.26brlcadfortunately I had mad skills long before I got the car
05:41.02madanthi sean
05:41.21brlcadmadant: please tell me you're still a student.. :)
05:41.31madanthad that interview i was talking about a couple of days back :)
05:41.41brlcadoh yeah, how'd it go?
05:42.04madantmarch is going to be my most productive month hopefully :) interview was fine.. just usual funny talk.. no serious stuff..
05:42.15madanthopefully i am a student still ;)
05:43.07madantthe results come out in a couple of weeks.. fingers crossed
05:44.05madantwhen is the org application deadline ? march 20th ?
05:44.58brlcadsomething like that
05:45.01brlcad~gsoctimeline
05:45.01ibotgsoctimeline is, like, http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2009/faqs.html#0_1_timeline_5354032302481437_
05:45.05madantoh 13th..
05:45.42brlcadfour whole days.. :)
05:45.42madanta reduction in the number of orgs and students is expectable right ..
05:46.24madantyeah seriously .. student application period is 10 days thankfully ..
05:47.26madantapril 20th to august mid seems ok for coding
05:47.27brlcadthe student application period would be extended a lot more readily than the org one
05:47.48brlcadthe org one has never been extended iirc, the student one has several times
05:48.47madantyeah but i wonder whether larger number of applications is exactly what google is looking forward to this time..
05:49.06brlcadwell last year, the timing was horrible and applications were *way* down
05:49.42brlcadas the first week corresponded with easter, which pretty much resulted in nearly no applications from US and much of Europe
05:50.01madantanyways imho almost all open source organizations applied last year right ?
05:50.02brlcadwhich is great for the non-US crowd, but overall submissions were down like 50% :)
05:50.22brlcadyeah, there was like 500 or 600 orgs that applies last year
05:50.28brlcadwith about 135 accepted
05:50.54madantbut steadily over the years more and more students are getting to know about the existence of GSoC
05:51.43madantin my first year of gsoc there was only me from my univ .. then next year there were 3 selected , and last year 7 or so .. and maybe 100 applications ;)
05:52.10brlcadah, 175 orgs
05:52.12madantare we making a poster ?
05:52.21madant175 orgs last year :O ?
05:52.39brlcad1125 students last year
05:52.46brlcadit'll be about 1000 students this year
05:53.11madantthat's still decent :)
05:53.19madanthopefully the dropout rate will be lower
05:53.40brlcadunlikely
05:53.51brlcadthat's been pretty constant every year
05:53.57brlcadabout 80% pass
05:54.14brlcad80/82/80/83 for the four years
05:54.16madantstatistical certainty :P
05:54.50brlcadprobably about about 20% should be failed that are passed
05:55.40brlcadtopic discussed at the summit, giving bad students many many attempts to succeed
05:56.27madantyeah i remember a lot of discussion on the same even in the student group.. basically some mentors were really pissed off i think ..
05:57.25madantand besides the existence of only two checkposts is also a constraint
05:57.59brlcadmadant: so you know, we may take a slot less this year if we're accepted .. but iff we are accepted, making more progress on any of last year's projects will be high priority
05:59.07madanthmm.. hows mafm doing ? would he need help in gui ? i mean slot for another student ?
05:59.09brlcadthere's only two google checkpoints, orgs are allowed to do more (technically our checkpoints were weekly)
05:59.24brlcadI don't think mafm is a student any longer iirc
05:59.32madantoh..
05:59.56brlcadotherwise, yeah, the gui needs to be continued
06:00.40PrezKennedygotta make it simple for us windoze folk ;)
06:00.51brlcadI think I'd like only three students so more time can be spent working with the various projects
06:01.09brlcadPrezKennedy: all in good time
06:01.13madantis the ogre installation complicated in windoze ?
06:01.32brlcadnot really
06:01.38brlcadit's the main platform iirc
06:01.46brlcador at least one of them
06:01.57madantbut not really 'just simply works' level either right ;) ?
06:02.12brlcadnot much on windows just simply works
06:02.41brlcadnot really worried too horribly about build system issues
06:03.07madantoh.. so major work is interfacing with libged etc. ?
06:03.28madanti mean adding functionality to gui ?
06:03.42brlcadinterfacing with either libged or new geometry service, but moreso adding functionality to the gui
06:04.15brlcadhe never did get to many of the usability issues, and the basic pervasive command framework
06:04.24brlcadcontext
06:04.29brlcader, context windows
06:05.03brlcadi.e. actually make it *look* and feel like the ioe prototype
06:05.11madantha
06:05.18brlcadlot of work
06:05.33madantyeah.. i have always felt gui IS A LOT of work.
06:05.56brlcadthat's why it was really one of the main goals of the project
06:06.14madantall the more reason it should be done once and (approximately) for all properly :)
06:06.30brlcadmafm wanted to work more on the 3D interaction aspects and libged integration, though, which was also good/needed
06:07.17brlcadbut particularly for a new gui, I think it'll get a lot more momentum if it looks good, clean, and modular right from the start even if the backend functionality isn't there yet
06:07.35brlcadcoding complete
06:07.38brlcaddeep not wide
06:08.32madanthmm.. modular is always good
06:08.37madanthmm.. i will wrap up this mathvm in a couple of days.. a good way to start march.. i have been dragging it along too much.. need to concentrate on actual parametrics and constraints..
06:08.56madant*too long
06:10.00brlcadyou know, another project came up a couple weeks ago that I was wishing I had that library for :)
06:10.22madantwhat was it ?
06:10.29brlcadat least we were discussing various metrics of the real world modelers that use brl-cad for modeling various assets
06:10.45brlcadand the topic of where the time is spent when modeling
06:11.08brlcad(for the guys that spend literally 8hr/day every day of the week most days of the year)
06:12.30brlcadof the time spent modeling, how much time is "new work" vs "rework" .. and particularly for the rework, there is an general feeling that the rework rate is 1) high and 2) closely correllates with the number of interfaces
06:12.45madantwhich is really the weirdest part.. i mean with the obvious gain of (significant) reduction in modeling time and changes ( particularly since most designs go through a lot of iterations) i find it really surprising that not only do open-source solutions exist.. not even a fully functional commercial solution exists
06:13.22brlcadi.e. that a lot of time is spent moving things around that relate to each other, but since there are no parametric values or contraints to tie objects together, that a lot of time is spent manually fixing the cascade changes that occur when something needs to be moved/changed
06:13.37madant*er i meant not only do open-source solutions not exist :)
06:13.45brlcadnods
06:14.24brlcadthere are often commercial solutions, they're just closed source proprietary and you don't know that's what they're doing under the hood
06:14.45brlcadlike one of the things we're working on now -- raytracing trimmed nurbs
06:15.06madantscratches his head
06:15.09brlcadthere are a few papers on a couple techniques, but it's exceptionally hard to implement it and have it actually be robust
06:15.31brlcadyet many CAD packages do provide it .. just nobody publishes how they accomplished it
06:15.47madantah that sucks..
06:16.49brlcada great paper that come out just last year actually did publish how they did it, but then they patented the process :)
06:17.39madantok.. that i can still live with
06:17.41madant:)
06:18.13brlcadsoftware patents, at least in the US, are very actively protected
06:18.36brlcadparticularly for the major industries (which CAD is)
06:19.00madantoh i didn't mean copying it.. :P
06:19.23brlcadyeah, it's better than nothing
06:19.29brlcadmight inspire a new approach
06:19.35madantexactly
06:19.50madanti really don't understand the concept of not publishing a nice idea
06:20.08madantlet alone a nice implementation
06:31.39jonored_That's odd... on ellipsoids and cylinders I seem to be able to slice properly with the order I expect curvatures to be in, but for a torus, it seems to be switched...
06:34.05brlcadswitched?
06:35.57jonored_As in I get the result I expect if I swap crv_c2 and crv_c1 for a torus, but not otherwise.
06:36.28jonored_crv_pdir should always be the direction tht crv_c1 is associated with, right?
07:15.19brlcadjonored_: eh, wth are you talking about? :)
07:19.42brlcadthere's the torus radius and then the radius of the tube itself, plus a position and vector to place/orient it
07:20.06brlcadsays he'll pick up this talk later, must wander
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11:29.01d-lomornin all
11:33.17alex_jonig'morning
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14:02.24*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.2 is posted (20080207)
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15:14.04``Erik_all my connection are belong to comcast :(
15:19.31d-losuckage...
15:19.46d-lowell, you can always haxor da gibson!
15:21.19``Erik_rather haxor a fender O:-)
15:23.49starseekertries compiling SCL on his box and winces - looks like Code Modernization will have to take place here, to say nothing of build system work
15:24.03starseekeralright, time to play in traffic
15:24.24d-loSo, I think FATE might be falling apart.  Without SD there (and the fact that few listen to any one else) it might be the begining of the end!
15:25.47``Erik_heh, nifty
15:26.02``Erik_fng seems to have survived a handoff pretty well
15:27.04d-lothere were a couple of 'angry' posts about FNG guys pillaging FATE traderoutes, and a few "beat them like redheaded step children' jokes
15:27.21d-lofollowed by a few piping up saying "Fate did that to me when i was in FNG, so stick it."
15:27.27``Erik_new people who were buggywhipped when found out
15:27.33d-loquite funny akshuly
15:27.58``Erik_a bunch of newbs in 86 got pulled in, and after they got smacked, there was a lot of whining when fate was pillaging and even attacking fng
15:28.42``Erik_*shrug* I've barely put any attention to that game lately, and even less to wow :) too much code to do
15:29.29d-lofeck, besides my best efforts... gotta race condition to track down :/
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17:03.16jonored_brlcad: I don't think that rt_tor_curve works quite right, unless I am misunderstanding things. Unless I am mistaken, it assumes that the smaller curvature is always associated with the major radius, and then computes a direction for that curvature that is pointing around the cross-section of the torus... but that block of stuff in the conditional I don't quite understand.
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18:07.42brlcadjonored_: what are you up to?
18:12.16jonored_brlcad: making toolpaths which use arcs when the curvature in the plane of the path is nonzero.
18:13.20brlcadhm
18:13.39brlcadwell something that may be of assistance, you can visualize the curvature computations
18:14.14brlcadthere's a render lighting mode specifically for it
18:15.28brlcadrt -l 4 and rt -l 5
18:15.58jonored_I just finally got my head (and a computer algebra system) around the math to get what that the curvature of an arbitrary intersection should be. Oh, I'll take a look at that.
18:15.59CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33912 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/coil.c: Start working out a way to support specifying multiple sections of coil with different properties.
18:16.16jonored_Does one draw with one curvature and the other with the other one?
18:18.44jonored_looks up the model.
18:18.48brlcadsame curvature, different visualizations
18:19.01brlcadone is the inverse radius of curvature
18:19.17brlcadthe other shows the direction
18:19.32brlcadso magnitude or dir visualization
18:20.31brlcadcan see the actual logic in src/rt/view.c, look for RT_CURVATURE
18:24.57brlcadto be honest, I've not looked at the torus' curvature code in years and it'd take a while to digest what is going on there exactly
18:32.25jonored_Okay. How likely is it that it might be almost all right but not quite? I'm pretty sure that at least it's not keeping the first curvature smaller than the second.
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18:33.28jonored_(or is that expected behavior?)
18:43.46brlcadthat's certainly possible, we find bugs in even some of the oldest parts of the code from time to time
18:43.55brlcadkinda really rare, but possible
18:49.15jonored_Okay. I'll keep staring at it until I understand what's going on in the last bit that I haven't understood, and if I'm still convinced it's not right, I'll send a patch.
18:53.24brlcadsounds great
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18:59.03CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33913 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/coil.c: More progress to getting multiple sections working in coil
19:31.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33914 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (archer/archer.bat mged/mged.bat util/rtwizard.bat): Update CAD_VERSION.
19:34.58CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33915 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/coil.c: Section processing is (sort of) working - looks like the pipe primitive doesn't like sections with anything different except pitch though.
19:41.28starseekerexpects helix angle and pitch to at least work - sort that out after lunch...
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23:11.16CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33916 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/coil.c: Clean up capping of 'default' endings - now nt=1 produces one turn of a regular coil by default.
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23:46.30CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33917 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am coil.xml): Add man page for coil tool
23:46.41brlcaduh oh, time to move it :)
23:49.04CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33918 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: two more items identified yesterday, top -u isn't working or the docs are out of sync and there is a view message if you try to change the view before displaying geometry.
23:49.22starseekerbrlcad:  on it :-)
23:49.23CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33919 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Move coil into shapes
23:51.17starseekerthat took more trouble that I would have guessed, but at least it's in there now
23:52.02brlcadfg
23:52.16starseekercan now generate the necessary shapes to do the remaining screens for the article
23:52.19starseekerfg?
23:52.29brlcadpics or it doesn't exist!
23:52.40starseekerok...
23:52.41brlcad~ww
23:52.42ibotCan I get a woot woot?
23:52.54starseekergoes for wonky...
23:58.41starseekerhttp://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/coil_fun.png
23:59.30``Erikdude, you broke your slinky
23:59.39brlcadneat
23:59.46brlcadcan model my mattress
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090228

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090228

00:00.36``Erikwhat, a coffin? I thought you weren't gonna sleep until you died :D *duck*
00:04.14archivistif it doesn't do a fusee it doesn't exist
00:04.19Ralithstarseeker: wow, an image link that's not larger than my system's RAM :D
00:05.56``Erikyeah, starseeker, what the heck, is that the thumbnail?
00:07.28starseekerRalith:  I can only get those sorts of images by scanning - raytracing 'em takes too long ;-)
00:07.42starseekerarchivist:  a fusee?
00:07.56brlcad``Erik: who said it was for sleeping?
00:08.06``Erikhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusee
00:08.10archiviststarseeker, an evil form
00:08.29``Erikactually looks like it'd be reasonably easy to generate parametricly
00:08.56``Erikjust attach a bunch of torii walking up a hyperbola or something
00:09.28starseeker``Erik:  That's an approximation, but yeah
00:09.44starseekerto do it "correctly" we need sweep
00:09.48archivistheh I could be nasty and provide the maths
00:10.03``Erikstarseeker likes nasty math :D
00:10.08starseekerthere are limitations to what the pipe primitive itself can express
00:10.09``Erik*duck* *run* *notit!*
00:10.12Ralithstarseeker: hey, you guys did that massive month-long cluster render, didn't you?
00:10.15starseekermmmm, crunchy
00:10.30``Erikuhm, the stryker image?
00:10.36Ralithprobably
00:10.44Raliththe one with the grass and the slat armor
00:10.49starseekerRalith:  that's a whole vehicle, not a silly coil demo
00:10.51``Erikthat was more like a week or so on a small cluster, using adrt/rise
00:11.00Ralithit was multiple days
00:11.06``Eriktwingy was the one who did that
00:11.09Ralithwhozat?
00:11.31``Erik*point* him
00:20.05``Erikstupid chain bought out the local grocery store I go to :/
00:21.50starseekergawks at how long BLT has gone without a release
00:23.20starseekerbrlcad:  With ogl now disabled by default, will Archer still work?
00:26.30brlcadstarseeker: it should
00:26.51brlcadit just creates an embedded display manager like mged does
00:27.09brlcadwhich hooks through and creates whatever the default display manager is from libdm
00:27.22starseekerI'm getting a dialog box saying "Unsupported display manager type - ogl"
00:28.16starseekerok, gotta head to dinner - back later
00:52.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33920 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wdb_obj.c: GED_INIT_FROM_WDBP was removed. get rid of the if/else/endif wrappage.
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01:06.53CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33921 10/brlcad/trunk/ (doc/deprecation.txt include/ged.h): update note removing the NEW_TOPS_BEHAVIOR toggle. tops -g and -u are deprecated.
01:32.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33922 10/brlcad/trunk/ (10 files in 7 dirs):
01:32.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: get rid of NEW_TOPS_BEHAVIOR. let both the old and the new work for
01:32.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: backwards-compatibility (except not in archer since wdb_obj commands are still
01:32.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: duplications that need to die) but mark the old -g and -u flags as deprecated.
01:32.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: verbosely complain that they are deprecated. this fixes an unexpected behavior
01:32.29CIA-40BRL-CAD: lee and I noticed where -u was no longer working (yet never went through
01:32.31CIA-40BRL-CAD: deprecation/removal process).
03:53.44starseekerbrlcad:  bob and I think we might need to upgrade blt after this latest tcl/tk upgrade
03:53.51starseekerany tricks to that that you know of?
03:55.28brlcadtricks?
03:56.03brlcadthere aren't really any tricks, you just have to integrate the build
03:57.43brlcadblt was a fair bit of work
04:01.13starseekerick
04:01.14starseekerok
04:44.14yukonbobhello, cadheads
04:45.36yukonbobjust heard (unofficially) that Tcl8.6 will natively include itcl in distribution...
04:52.27yukonbobsees (officially) that itcl to be included: http://www.tcl.tk/cgi-bin/tct/tip/311
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05:41.35PrezKennedybrlcad, do you know paul dietz?
05:42.25PrezKennedynevermind just figured it out for myself
06:34.23Twingy:)
07:11.01PrezKennedyhttp://twitpic.com/1qhvt
07:11.10PrezKennedybrlcad, is that yours?
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11:57.53brlcadPrezKennedy: heh, yeah but not the account
11:58.11brlcadthat was just this past thursday
11:58.17brlcadhad lunch at mamies
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14:40.18``Erikheh, no privacy at all, sheesh :D
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15:43.02madant~gsoctimeline
15:43.03ibothmm... gsoctimeline is http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2009/faqs.html#0_1_timeline_5354032302481437_
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20:18.27PrezKennedybrlcad, my friend took the picture... when he mentioned he saw a lotus i figured it might be yours
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23:18.48brlcadPrezKennedy: ah, heh
23:19.13brlcadPrezKennedy: did you tell him you're brother's rode in it too? :)
23:23.18PrezKennedynah i didnt know that
23:25.20brlcadyeah, since he was working at the lab over the winter, he was still around when I got it
23:32.23PrezKennedylucky
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090301

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090301

00:14.00brlcadPrezKennedy: what happened to osgaming.net?
00:14.18brlcadif you need a new home, could use one of my servers
00:15.38PrezKennedyif i recall, the moved the data somewhere else and i just never bothered to setup the site again
00:15.52PrezKennedyi really should since it was by far the most successful thing ive worked on online
00:16.15PrezKennedybrlcad, did you ever come up with a name for the second server?
00:22.49brlcadnope
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02:34.22Ralithosgaming.net?
02:34.25Raliththat sounds interesting
02:45.26Axman6read that as orgasming.net
03:43.45yukonbobevening, cadheads :)
03:44.27yukonbob?is there a brlcad entry for gsoc2009?
05:44.08PrezKennedyhaha nice one Axman6
05:44.30Axman6heh, i love #brl-cad lag XD
06:49.15brlcadyukonbob: not yet, applications haven't opened yet
06:49.42yukonbobhey brlcad
06:49.47brlcadhey
06:50.10yukonbobthought they closed in start of March (but I haven't been following closely :P)
06:50.26yukonbobbrlcad: is there an "idea sheet" for BRLCAD submission-possibilities?
06:51.55yukonbobbrlcad: also, see my note earlier re: itcl/tcl8.6? Full intergration of itcl w/ 8.6 release!
06:52.09yukonbob(dunno if you already knew; I just found out yesterday)
06:58.44brlcadyukonbob: http://brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html is always a good staring point
06:59.07brlcadthe best ideas come from the students directly often
06:59.08yukonbobalso sees applications == Mar 9-13
06:59.28brlcadyes
06:59.42yukonbobbrlcad: Are there plans for participation this year, plans to not participate, or simply no plans (yet)?
06:59.59brlcadthe 2008 list is still relevant if we participate
07:01.10brlcadstill not time to decide but probably applying at least, just maybe fewer slots
07:01.21brlcadnot that it's relevant to the program
07:03.08yukonbobright s/participate/apply/
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10:03.49alex_jonibrlcad: I notice you have Adobe 3D PDF exporte on the list
10:04.13alex_jonibasicly the things in the 3D PDF are U3D's (which are further down the list)
10:05.13alex_joniI managed to create U3D's with meshlab, and embed them into a pdf from latex + Movie15 package
10:06.18alex_jonithe conversion Meshlab does is using the sample IDTF converter provided with the sample U3D library (http://sourceforge.net/projects/u3d)
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15:08.02brlcadalex_joni: *nod*
15:08.08brlcadsounds like two birds with one stone :)
15:14.29brlcadfrom our toolchain perspective, there are a lot of integration issues that would have to be sorted out
15:28.35brlcadhaving a g-u3d and/or a g-pdf exporter, a u3d-g importer .. the g-pdf in particular would be tricky given the current 'path' involves latex+movie15 and how that could be achieved programmatically
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16:45.35brlcadhi samrose
16:46.24samrosehey brlcad
16:47.08samroseopensourceecology is interested in learning brlcad. ultimately, interested in extending it and making easy to use
16:47.27samroseany suggestions for learning brlcad?
16:47.42samrosesome of the non-programmers are finding it extremely tough
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16:52.24samrosewe are going to also document our learning
16:52.25samroseas we go
16:52.29samroseon brlcad
17:13.37brlcadsamrose: *nod*
17:13.57brlcadone of our biggest (specific) long-term goals is making brl-cad a lot easier to use
17:14.07samrosemaybe I'll also make some screencasts
17:15.14brlcadthere are lots of ways folks can help make brl-cad easier to use
17:15.24samroseI am trying to convince http://openfarmtech.org/index.php?title=Main_Page (open source ecology) that despite difficulty, that learning brl-cad will be worth the investment. I am creating a foundation in march, and interested in investing in developing brl-cad
17:15.26brlcadthere is a massive documentation project under way that you could help out with
17:15.48brlcadthat sounds fantastic
17:15.57samrosewe will see if we can figure out a way to combine that with existing workflows
17:16.09samrosewhere id documentation project happening at?
17:16.18brlcadhere
17:16.36samrosethis one http://brlcad.org/
17:16.37samrose?
17:16.38brlcadstarseeker is the lead on that effort, there are various tasks and pieces involved
17:16.49samrosehere on IRC channel too, eh?
17:17.43samrosealso, many emerging fablab projects could participate, if we could find a way to help them do so while they are working on what they are working on
17:17.48brlcadsamrose: yeah, that's our main website -- the documentation I refer to is organizing and presenting existing docs better, converting docs to a revision-controllable format, and making them easier to work with in our tools and via the website
17:18.01samroseah, ok
17:18.43samrosegetting all of this stuff from pdf to wiki pages or into revision control, eh? http://brlcad.org/wiki/Documentation
17:18.45brlcadmost of our discussions happen here on the channel or via our brlcad-devel mailing list
17:18.53brlcadyes
17:18.55brlcadand more
17:19.01brlcadthere's a lot more documentation than that
17:19.08brlcadbut that's more than enough to start with
17:19.08samrosehuh
17:19.54brlcadthe first steps are converting the docs to docbook format (an xml-based markup format for technical docs), then generating the output formats we need (web, pdf, doc, html, etc)
17:20.19samroseseems like a programming task, if you ask me. writing some scripts that can get data from x and put it into y with as many changes/conversions needed done during the process as possible
17:20.37samroseI am familari with docbook
17:20.43samrosefamiliar that is :)
17:20.47brlcad:)
17:20.58brlcadyeah, that part of it is more a programming task
17:21.11brlcadthough the input docs are in a wide variety of formats and quantities
17:21.52samrosewhat kind of revision control are you going to put them into, if I may ask?
17:21.55brlcadhundreds of pages in msword-only, pdf-only, html, latex, and manual page come to mind
17:22.05brlcadour svn repo
17:22.17samroseok
17:22.37brlcadmuch of it already is there and done
17:22.48samroseeven though there are pages in msword, pdf, etc, there are some tools out there that can help with this
17:22.48brlcadit's been a project under way for quite a while
17:23.01brlcadyeah, and they tend to do a horrific job :)
17:23.06samrosehehe
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17:23.36samrosewell, where do you need help these days?
17:23.44brlcadin any regard, that's the work -- using tools, some manual, some automated, some scripting, etc -- hundreds of pages of docs
17:24.12*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
17:24.12*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.2 is posted (20080207)
17:24.12brlcadthere's also a variety of docs that still need to be written/rewritten
17:24.27samroseyou should put those in your wiki, maybe?
17:24.35brlcadoh, absolutely
17:24.39samrosethen again, what do I know...
17:25.00samrosebut, I think media wiki export to docbook will be easy for you
17:25.22brlcadone of the things I'm trying to get working is complete bidirectional editing of the docs through the website (ideally through the wiki) and to revision control docbook on the backend
17:26.22brlcadunfortunately, wiki markup by itself isn't sufficient for all except the most basic layout needs
17:26.28samroseso, that the wiki will export saved revisions as docbook to repo, eh?
17:26.54brlcadyeah, that'd be the goal, so really anyone could edit a document either via checkout or via the website
17:27.21brlcadand not have manual sync'ing, or manual export/import/merge steps
17:27.28samrosehmmm... this is related to another project that I was working on, where we were trying to find ways to push wiki pages into print quality pages (ConTexT in that case)
17:27.48brlcadhopefully avoiding unidirectional editing
17:28.15samroseso, you could check an edit in to revision control, or edit a wiki page, basically
17:30.14brlcadbasically
17:30.41brlcadfirst step was thinking to make either a drupal or mediawiki plugin that could simply display the docbook for a given page/document that would correspond to a given file
17:31.00samrosemediawiki plugin would probably work
17:31.19samroseyou could write php that would sync with svn
17:31.27samroseand back the other way
17:32.12brlcadand when an edit was made, it'd go through a validation step, and get committed or scheduled for commit
17:32.15samrosebut, you were saying that MW markup is missing formatting you need for docbook
17:32.41brlcadright, that's why it'd just display the docbook straight up as a first step
17:32.55samroseit could actually run a command line command, if everything you needed existed as commands that could be run from shell :)
17:33.06brlcade.g. have one section/page that has the editable docbook, and another (read-only) that would be the rendered result
17:33.25samroselike a "release" page
17:33.40samroseso, you might use branches in svn to track that
17:33.44samroseor tags
17:33.47brlcadso hourly/nightly/manually/automatically/whatever, it would update from svn sources and rerender as needed
17:33.58brlcadyeah, something like that
17:34.14samrosethe docbook idea is cool, because you could build a book as needed from pages
17:34.24brlcadyeah, that's part of the goal
17:34.29brlcadwe have several books as is
17:35.21samroseI am working on something similar with decentalized revision control right now as package management for digital design. I know it won't work for you, but I could also
17:35.32samrosethink about ways to sync with documentation
17:35.52louipcthis sounds pretty awesome
17:36.11samroseso, we would pull brl-cad book, and could push changes in ways that you need, so that you can review and commit
17:36.44samrosethis is built in mercurial, python, bugseverywhere, exelearning, possibly more (a small wiki engine called hatta wiki)
17:36.57samroseeverything syncs with mercurial repo
17:36.58brlcadsamrose: distributed vs centralized revision control wouldn't/shouldn't really affect this -- most of the work is in how to display on the site, how it's integrated as a plugin, etc
17:37.30samroseyeah, so anyone could edit, and there could be a plugin that would send you edits as commits in a form that you can use
17:37.49brlcadideally, one could make a much more complex mediawiki plugin that uses docbook as the entire format, renders the page using docbook as an alternate wiki markup
17:38.10brlcadalong with commit hooks on changes, of course
17:38.43samrosewell, i think there is already a docbook conversion for MW
17:38.52brlcadexport only
17:38.54brlcadone-way
17:38.57samroseah
17:39.28brlcadand if I put docbook into an edit page, it certainly won't render it ;)
17:39.56brlcadbarely deals with the html it supports
17:40.00MinuteElectronis docbook latex?
17:40.19brlcadMinuteElectron: no, docbook is an xml or sgml-based markup
17:40.31samroseI am thinking that in addition to what you suggest above, that if there is a specification for what you are looking for in commits/edits, that this could also be built into other systems
17:40.35MinuteElectronok
17:40.50brlcadone of the toolchains effectively converts docbook into a latex format and uses latex tools to render it (for pdf, rtf, etc)
17:42.54samrosehttp://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Meta:Guides/Wiki_conversions/DocBook_to_Wiki
17:43.00samroseperl!
17:43.02samrosehahaha
17:43.06brlcadsamrose: yeah, it really should be generalizable to any project and most revision-control backends
17:44.00samroseso, basically you can say: "this is what we need from you in the form of edit commits" I think you are saying it needs to be docbook
17:44.06brlcadyeah, I've seen what they did -- sort of a similar idea, but I think that's a flop on execution
17:44.23samroseheh, that was just a quick google search
17:44.28brlcadit shouldn't just dumb down docbook to mediawiki markup if you want bidirectional
17:44.37samroseI see
17:46.17brlcadrequiring editors to understand basic docbook is a reasonable first-step compromise
17:46.32brlcadeven our non-technically inclined editors have been able to use it
17:46.40samroseyeah. or it may be worth making a really good conversion system
17:46.53samrosewell, that is true
17:47.11brlcadjust requires a simple tutorial, existing examples
17:47.29brlcadnot really any more complicated than wikitext markup, just more verbose
17:47.35brlcadand more expressive/formalized
17:47.42samroseyeah, I think most could handle it
17:48.06brlcadthere's even a wiki based on docbook, but I think mediawiki does a much better job really
17:48.57samroseyeah. hmmm... I wonder how quickly the DTD of docbook could be programmatically mapped.
17:49.18samrose(just thinking out loud)
17:50.39samroselike this python script could work, it just needs to be more complete: http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Meta:Guides/Wiki_conversions/DocBook_to_Wiki
17:53.09samroseI am just thinking about how to get people who are already doing flex fab projects to 1. use brlcad 2. be able to quickly jump into documentation as they go
17:53.46samroseI think we can do it over the next year or so
17:53.53brlcadwhat are the needs?
17:53.58samroseover time, get more people doing 1, and 2
17:54.00brlcadwhat do you need a CAD system to do?
17:54.41samrosepeople need solid geo modeling to document designs, so that others can collaborate on designs with them
17:54.44samrosefor one thing
17:55.07brlcadto document the design in what manner?
17:55.24samrosegeometric dimensions
17:55.59samrosemany designs that are intended to be executed by cnc machinery
17:56.39samroseperhaps CAD is not needed in every case, but there is clearly a demand
17:56.52brlcadthe latter is closer to doable now than the prior with where things currently stand
17:57.22samroseyou mean with brlcad in general?
17:57.33brlcadthere's a lot of work that has to go into our toolset before we can have automatic dimensioning for things like generating drawings and other drafting docs
17:57.39brlcadyeah, in general
17:58.00samroseWell, automatic dimensioning is actually not a requisite
17:58.14samrosejust *some* usuable 3D FLOSS CAD software
17:58.16samrose:)
17:58.25samroseand, the knowledge of how to use it
17:58.26bitminerIs meida wiki being used currently?  If so where is the search bar? Online wiki editor for Doc Book http://code.google.com/p/owed/
17:58.41samroseOSE uses media wiki
17:58.47brlcadwell we're by far the best and most developed 3d f/oss cad software :)
17:58.59samroseyeah, that is the conclusion I came to
17:59.18brlcadbitminer: interesting, i've not seen that project
17:59.31bitminerJust using some google foo
17:59.57brlcadsamrose: our biggest failing atm is gui usability -- the learning curve on mged (our main editor) is very steep
18:00.13bitminerSorry to return to doc book in this conversation, but thought you could use the info
18:00.43brlcad"This project is abandoned"
18:01.04samrosecould be worth doing an autopsy on, though
18:01.17samrosemged was the objection that lots of people raised to me
18:01.24samroseso I am trying to convince them to learn it
18:01.57samrosebut, then, I am also thinking about how users could drive evolution at the same time.
18:02.32bitminerI have needed (docbook) wiki in the past, never obatained it though.  Likey a project in and of itself.
18:02.42samroseI think I could get funds to hel towards gui interface design, but I want to work both with brlcad and people in the field
18:02.44brlcadbitminer: more I read it, looks like they never finished and it's not a mediawiki plugin but a new wiki?
18:03.06bitminerAs for using mged and UI. Yes it is steep, but so too was learning Unigraphics.
18:03.19bitminerWith all the gui bells and whistles
18:03.30samroseanyway, I think I can convince people to use mged now
18:04.06samroseI did not realize that your existing documents are in svn so that alone really helps
18:04.35bitminerI though I saw doc book in trunk? Yes ... checking...
18:05.01samrosethanks brlcad bitminer. I'll talk to you later
18:05.42brlcadsamrose: if it's any consolation, the expert brl-cad modelers are usually more efficient in mged than they are in other commercial cad systems
18:05.51brlcadit just took a while for them to get to that level of proficiency
18:06.36brlcadbitminer: yes, doc/docbook has most of the docs that have already been converted
18:06.56bitminerWhat I thought from snooping arround.  Just getting started though.
18:07.16brlcadthere are still hundreds of 'pages' of docs, and hundreds of files, that still have to be converted
18:07.48brlcade.g., there are more than 400 tools in brl-cad -- there is a manual page for nearly all of them that needs to be converted
18:07.57brlcadfortunately, that's a good one for automatic conversion
18:08.05bitminerI know that doing this progrmatically, being programmers is encticing, but how hard would it be to do it ... mmm... huh...  manually.
18:08.39brlcadsimilarly, though, there are 300+ different mged commands which is all over the place
18:09.00brlcadbitminer: a lot of it is being done manually
18:09.08brlcadit's just really tedious too :)
18:09.30bitminerSo what would be target for auto convert and what would need to be done manualy?
18:11.25brlcadbitminer: target is having docbook files instead of troff manpage format files :)
18:14.01brlcadthe html docs and msword docs tend to require a lot more manual effort
19:12.20yukonbobmorning, cadheads
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21:06.16starseekerabout autoconverting docs - the existing man pages have been run through an autoconversion process that produces "close" to correct output.  The MGED commands, which are the current focus due to their being "user visible" in the MGED environment itself, typically do not have man pages to start with.  Those are being hand converted, using the Volume II appendix as a starting point and a docbook template into which the information is inserted
21:06.58starseekerHowever, just getting the documentation into docbook is only the first step, although probably the most tedious one
21:07.51starseekervirtually all the documentation we have besides the chapters in the Volume II and III books needs to be carefully checked to make sure they are still current, correct and clear
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21:47.16CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33923 10/brlcad/trunk/ (TODO src/mged/cmd.c): make sure all of the view commands have the view to work with. this should remove the 'A view does not exist' messages from the GED view check.
23:12.17CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33924 10/brlcad/trunk/include/vmath.h: drop the signbit on zeros during INTCLAMP so we don't print '-0'. achieve this via simple (double)(long) cast. should be just a minor cosmetic change.
23:14.38brlcadstarseeker: another thought came to mind about the tcl upgrade -- did you apply bob's 2x command length patch?
23:19.20starseekerI believe I did
23:19.38starseekerI think that was one of two I had applied at the outset - it should say in the commit message
23:23.45brlcadokay, cool
23:24.15starseekerstill hasn't had time to work on blt yet - the one naive attempt to put latest cvs blt into the brlcad tree resulted in a compile error
23:24.31brlcadthey were working on our patch reviewing it
23:24.44starseekerhmm.  when was that?
23:24.51brlcadcouple days ago
23:24.58starseekerah, cool :-)
23:25.27starseekerhalf agrees with Bob that we might want to revert Tcl/Tk upgrade til after the release - Archer will at least work on some platforms that way
23:25.45starseekeris probably the only one with the X/Tk conflict
23:27.18CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33925 10/brlcad/trunk/autogen.sh: another tweak from sebastian pipping, adds support for the old automake libtool macro, AM_PROG_LIBTOOL.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090302

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090302

00:34.20*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
01:30.35``Erik*readreadread*
01:30.44``Erikhm
01:31.27``Erikbah, nascar is still on, I want my cartoons *pout*
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02:36.16*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.2 is posted (20080207)
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06:08.29starseekerbrlcad:  I made a test manually of a coil coiling inward:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/coil_in_ex.png  what do you think? Is it a good enough approximation to be worthwhile?
08:57.02archivisthmm cnc wire bending
09:03.52brlcadstarseeker: I'd still probably say not really -- even that test looks oddly shaped enough that I'd think it was a bug instead of an approximated implementation detail
09:05.17brlcadmaybe if you could control how approximated it was at the expense of speed (like 100 or 1000 bends just to make one turn)
09:05.35brlcadbut yeah, not at the quarter-turn
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10:19.33CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33926 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/draw.c: recogized typo and fixd it
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11:50.39d-loMornin all!
11:50.53d-lobrlcad: Still awake or just woke up?
12:12.33d-lo``Erik: Have any essssspertize on decompliation / assembly ?
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12:19.32TC-Ruchohello
12:30.51brlcadd-lo: still awake
12:31.53d-lomachine....
12:32.14d-loI take it you rcurrent work location will be the work location for the day then ? :)\
12:32.18brlcadtrying to fix a stupid resize bug
12:32.49d-loas in GUI widget resize?
12:33.06brlcadit'd be tricky to try and get out right now with the snow depth on top of ice
12:33.24d-lohow much snow you get so far?
12:33.33d-loI got <1" at home :/
12:33.43d-lothey *said* 5-8"
12:33.49brlcadit iced through most of the night and has been snowing few a few hours since, maybe 4-6" total
12:34.02d-loI got excited and broke out the sleds :/  I think i cursed it.
12:35.47d-lobrlcad: do you have any exp with disassembly/decompilation?
12:54.09brlcadsure
12:54.53brlcadrarely need it these days, though .. usually just to check out what the optimizer did
12:58.09d-loI might have to pick your brain when next I see you then.
12:59.24brlcadsome knowledge rot, best to just speak and hit me up with tools at my fingertips, and a wider audience if need be
13:00.39d-loWell i have a binary in which I do not have the source for, but I know that it uses a certain open sourced library
13:01.07d-loI am trying to find a specific function call so I can hook into it and watch/log the data flow.
13:01.13d-lo(Personal project btw)
13:01.45brlcadhook into it..
13:01.58brlcadjava?
13:02.18d-lohook's a bad word to use.... um.  place a 'watch point' for logging/viewing in a console.
13:02.42d-loNo, not java.  I believe the original language was  MSVC6.0
13:04.55TC-Ruchois there a way to hide/erase the objects that are used for boolean subtraction when drawing a region?
13:05.06TC-Ruchoall this wireframing is driving me nuts
13:05.14brlcadhm, that's a pretty hefty goal, even to just watch and log without narrowing down and knowing a lot more about that code
13:05.48d-lo*sigh* i know.
13:06.00brlcadTC-Rucho: I believe you can change how the negatives are drawn that might help
13:06.28brlcad"maybe", but there is no way to turn them off outright without switching to a different render mode
13:06.52TC-Ruchohmm
13:07.00d-loI have tracked down what exact lib its using, gotten the source for that and have found (in the dissassembled asm) where the headers I want are imported...but after that I am at a loss :/  
13:07.09d-loOkay, I stop the OffTopic banter for now ;)
13:07.57TC-Ruchobrlcad: I don't know where to start to change that right now
13:08.03TC-Ruchoany more obvious hint?
13:08.13brlcadTC-Rucho: yeah, hold on
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13:08.36*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.2 is posted (20080207)
13:16.21brlcadTC-Rucho: hm, i'm not finding the option either, only the one that changes all linewidths
13:16.27brlcadTC-Rucho: something else you can do though
13:16.30brlcadtwo things actually
13:16.53brlcadone is to utilize ray-tracing more -- it's there to help show the evaluated/shaded result
13:17.18TC-RuchoI don't like the mged GUI, I find it ugly, so I use the console style
13:17.32brlcadwith the raytrace control panel open, it supposed to be simple enough to render, turn off the framebuffer, turn on and render, repeat, etc
13:17.34TC-RuchoI do raytrace from time to time to see wtf is going on
13:17.48TC-Ruchoyeah, already doing that
13:18.17brlcadanother thing you can do, which will entirely depend on your objects
13:18.26brlcadis to display them evaluated instead of unevaluated
13:18.45TC-Ruchothat sounds interesting, keep talking
13:18.46brlcadwhat are you using now to display objects?
13:19.02brlcaddraw? e?
13:19.06TC-Ruchodraw
13:19.20brlcadso instead of draw, you could use either ev or E
13:19.27brlcadsubtlely different results
13:19.50brlcadit'll evaluate the booleans in polygonal mode and show an evaluated polygon
13:20.05brlcadsome like it more, sometimes too much, just depends on the model
13:20.30brlcadif the geometry gets too complex, there are limitations to what can be evaluated
13:20.52brlcadit'll give you more wireframe instead of less, of course, but it might help
13:21.03TC-Ruchoyeah, I'm working with spheres and it's getting really messy
13:21.54brlcadand if you have an open-gl-enabled mged, there's yet a third thing you can try that displays in shaded mode all the time
13:22.10TC-Ruchowhich would be?
13:23.41brlcadit's an experimental mode, so use at own caution, and only with ogl display manager, but iirc, it is enabled by turning on z-buffering, turning off lighting, run 'set shaded_mode 2' and redraw your objects
13:24.49TC-Ruchoalready tried that about an hour ago, and all it does is fill the object with a plain color, no shades, so it's really not useful at all imo
13:25.15TC-Ruchowant to see a screenshot?
13:25.49brlcadthen it's not enabled correctly
13:26.10TC-Ruchohttp://tc-rucho.homelinux.net/Scrots/crappy-shade.png
13:26.13TC-Ruchothat's what I get
13:26.16brlcadthose first two enable/disable steps are required
13:26.23TC-Ruchohmm, let's see
13:26.38brlcadyeah, that's just not enabled correctly
13:27.16TC-RuchoI'll try to enable that with mged gui first, brb
13:27.21brlcadit's not meant to be easy yet. you're using a dev hook at this point, so it's all manual
13:28.27brlcadi might have the toggling off on one of them too, easy enough to tell when it works though
13:29.35TC-Ruchoz-buffering on
13:29.37brlcadthe real fix for that is in the pipeline, part of the bigger BREP support effort
13:29.41TC-Ruchonow the light
13:30.24TC-Rucholighting off and yet the same thing when redrawing
13:30.26TC-Rucho=/
13:30.39brlcadthere's at least four combinations there
13:30.45brlcadto try
13:30.48TC-Ruchoyeah
13:30.52TC-RuchoI'm on my way
13:31.04brlcadi don't have an ogl-enabled build at the moment
13:31.34TC-Ruchook, this can be really haired, but it's Zbuffer off, lighting on
13:31.57brlcadsounds about right
13:32.24TC-Ruchook, got to get it working in the console based mged
13:32.31TC-RuchoI'll be back in a minute
13:32.52brlcadwhat are you working on?
13:33.02TC-Ruchooh, Z clipping must be on too
13:33.43TC-RuchoI'm drawing my webcam for the sake of learning how to use BRL CAD. I've had some rough times trying to move objects (actually still haven't figured out how to move regions in space)
13:33.55brlcadoed
13:34.13brlcadthere's a whole tutorial geared towards teaching that
13:34.14TC-RuchoI tried sed and ted (which I found awesomely useful)
13:34.35brlcadsed is for primitives
13:34.43brlcadoed is for everything else
13:34.51TC-RuchoI see
13:34.55brlcadobject edit
13:35.15brlcadoed / my_region/path/to/primitive
13:35.25brlcadrot 50 0 0
13:35.28brlcadaccept
13:50.24TC-Ruchowouldn't that commandline be for editing a single primitive instead of a whole region?
14:05.40brlcadnope
14:05.56brlcadthe primitive is only required to set an explicit keypoint
14:06.53brlcadso it will rotate about the primary vertex point of the given primitive specified, but apply a matrix between the left-hand and right-hand side for a given /arbitrary/path/to/objects
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15:03.20TC-RuchoI was wondering, does brlcad have at least a 1 step-only undo?
15:06.09TC-Ruchoguess not
15:06.12TC-Rucho=/
15:06.27TC-Ruchonote to self: always triple check before doing a killtree
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15:55.56brlcadTC-Rucho: it's a two-step undo, cp file.g backup.g, later cp backup.g file.g to undo
15:57.39brlcadbest practice is to make backups of your .g file every N timeframes (e.g. daily) so that at worst you've never lost more than N work (e.g. a day's worth)
15:58.52brlcadthat'll be addressed with the new gui, but it's still simply not a high priority since the geometry command layer is designed just like the unix command line and is intentionally unforgiving
15:59.29brlcadyou could just as well create proc overrides that makes backups for you or prompts for confirmation just like some folks do with rm
16:00.20brlcadagain, not something being avoided, just not a priority until shaded displays and the new command layer is in place
16:27.45``Erikd'lo: uh, a little, mostly quite antiquated, though
16:30.42d-loHrm, okay.
16:30.53d-loLooks like I am on my own :/
16:31.08d-lo``Erik: You braving the roads or calling today a wash?
16:31.58brlcadd-lo: it's usually infinitely easier to snoop the wires
16:32.36brlcadif there's any net communication, or port protocol i/o, or even file i/o
16:33.02brlcada lot easier to meter that doesn't require dissassembly or trying to inject man-in-the-middle code
16:33.19d-loWell, thats just the issue. ;)  I need to see the data BEFORE it gets encrypted.
16:33.22``Erikthis is my rdo
16:33.41``Erikwhich is good, as they haven't plowed my neighborhood yet :)
16:34.34brlcadd-lo: ah, then your best bet is probably to run the app through a debugger, break it right before the data is encrypted, then step through the assembly one instruction at a time watching how all the register data changes
16:34.50brlcadvery tedius, but doable
16:35.21``Erikhm, I forget if ndisasm attempts to generate labels or just uses offsets
16:36.15brlcadyeah, there are some intelligent tools that will rebuild from symbols and labels if they are there
16:36.44brlcadanother toolset to learn though, debugger is simple low-level
16:36.53d-lobrlcad: Right.  Thats the approach I am trying to take.  As a step before, since I know its using openSSL, then I am trying to grab the offsets for the functions to make my searching in pure asm easier.
16:37.04``Erikso you're picking that old project up again? heh
16:37.10d-loyeah. ;)
16:37.53d-loI am usin IDA.  Its doing a pretty good job thus far, but working on a 20MB binary is kicking my laptop in the nuts :(
16:38.03``Erikthere should be something like a _call directive going on that should make it a lot more readoable
16:38.44``Erikreadable, even
16:39.13``Erikthere should be a "wakethefuckuperik" directive that makes my sentences a lot more readable :D
16:42.19brlcadyay, finally!
16:42.34brlcadg'damn that was more difficult than it should have been
16:45.13CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33927 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/draw.c: add support to ignore a new '-R' option that implies draw should not resize the view. since the actual resize logic is still in the front-end, we just ignore it (and -A, -o) here.
16:46.53CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33928 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/chgview.c: add a -R option to the edit_com() interface affecting e/draw/B so that they don't resize/autoview the view if the -R option is provided
16:52.32*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14E5DC.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:53.29TC-Ruchobrlcad: wouldn't it be more conveniente to have oed to work like this?: oed /path/to/group-or-primitive-to-work-with /path/to/reference-primitive  <br/> What's the point in telling oed where is it contained? (the rlh path).
16:54.05CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33929 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/mged/chgmodel.c):
16:54.05CIA-40BRL-CAD: make the 'make' command use the existing view size when creating new objects by
16:54.05CIA-40BRL-CAD: utilizing the new -R option on the draw command. this is a change to make's
16:54.05CIA-40BRL-CAD: behavior when there are no objects displayed since previously, it would create
16:54.05CIA-40BRL-CAD: an object sized to the view, but then autoview to size the view out. this would
16:54.08CIA-40BRL-CAD: result in unexpected view changes that would get compounded if the user called
16:54.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: make/draw/kill repeatedly.
16:54.37brlcadTC-Rucho: it'd be easier to just say "oed object" or "oed /path/to/object" but that would imply automatic keypoints based on "something" (perhaps the center of the bounding box for that object)
16:55.16TC-Ruchobrlcad: what about just   oed /path/to/group/and/reference-primitive
16:55.32brlcadthen where does it apply the matrix?
16:55.43TC-Ruchoto the greatest group mentioned in the path
16:55.51brlcad"greatest"?
16:56.05TC-Ruchoparent?
16:56.13TC-Ruchofor example:
16:56.17brlcadif "path" is the object you wanted to change, then that'd be no different than oed / /path/to/group/and/reference-primitive
16:56.37brlcadso you saved two keystrokes and introduced ambiguity :)
16:56.45brlcadthere is just one path
16:57.10brlcadthe arguments are the left-hand side of that one path, and the right-hand side
16:57.40TC-Ruchoif I want to edit group I go with oed group/and/reference-primitive   if I want to edit path I go with oed /path/to/group/and/reference-primitive. Is that ambiguous?
16:57.45brlcadevery where there is a slash, you can inject a transformation matrix
16:58.35brlcadno, you're still not understanding what it means to be a path I think
16:58.44TC-Ruchomaybe
16:59.02brlcadthe tutorial does a pretty good job with examples to explain it in detail, fwiw
16:59.12brlcadincluding the implications and rationale
17:00.23brlcadbut even using a filesystem path metaphor as an example, "oed /path/to/group/and/primitive" could imply that you want to edit the 'path' object or the 'primitive' object in that path'ed context
17:00.58brlcadthe only reason you specify a path at all is to obtain a keypoint -- you still have to say what object in what context no matter what
17:01.32brlcade.g. to qualify instance editing versus global editing
17:01.39TC-Ruchoit took me  a while to get what was it all about since I was getting a shitty error about "Unable to find solid matching path" (later figured out it was because I did not draw one of the objects)
17:02.15TC-Ruchohmm, I'll have to experiment about that
17:02.22brlcadyes, you have to load the objects for editing (via draw/e/B) before you can oed, sed works that way too
17:02.46brlcad'who' tells you what objects are editable
17:04.01*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
17:04.01*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.2 is posted (20080207)
17:04.03brlcadanother simple example, you have a room with a bed and a chair, constructed with some primitives .. there's a "room", "chair", and "bed" object as well as their primitives in the database
17:04.15TC-RuchoI don't yet see the difference in doing  oed /combination region/primitive   and   oed / region/primitive
17:04.40brlcad"oed / room/chair/leg/arb8" means "move the room"
17:04.52TC-Ruchoaye
17:05.07brlcad"oed /room chair/leg/arb" means "move just that one chair in that room"
17:05.25brlcad"oed / chair/leg/arb8" would mean "move all chairs"
17:06.11TC-Ruchoreally?, I would have bet that  "oed / chair/leg/arb" meant "move just that one chair"
17:06.34brlcadthey are named references
17:06.56brlcadso if you use 'chair' as a name elsewhere and you move /chair, you move everything
17:07.41brlcaddepends how your hierarchy is contstructed
17:08.39brlcadit's a basic set of directed acyclic graphs where you can apply a matrix to any node in the graph
17:08.51brlcadsame concept as for any other CAD system really
17:09.52brlcadmain difference is different terms, assemblies regions parts combinations primitives groups
17:10.28TC-Ruchowell, I've used AutoCAD, totally different paradigm, and when I reached the oed part, I was confused as hell, because I thought of it as a referencing system like AutoCAD's move/copy/whatever where one selects a group of objects, then a reference point, and an end point
17:10.54TC-Ruchoso I thought of oed as   oed /group/to/work/with  /path/to/reference-primitive
17:10.58``Erikow
17:11.09``Erikgot ~6-7" of snow, just finished shoveling
17:11.11brlcadmain difference with a system like autocad is that every object (well, most objects) are automatically wrapped in a container object by default
17:11.34brlcadso to change all instances, it involves a more explicit action usually
17:12.17brlcadTC-Rucho: oed is like "oed /group/to/work/with  /path/to/reference-primitive" :)
17:12.31brlcadyour words and what those slashes mean are just not connecting
17:12.56brlcadmeans that this is some valid path:  /group/to/work/with/path/to/reference-primitive
17:13.21brlcadand you want to edit the 'path' object instance referenced in the 'with' object
17:13.37brlcadusing 'reference-primitive' as the keypoint
17:14.32brlcad(more specifically, the 'reference-primitive' keypoint in the '/group/to/work/with/path/to' context)
17:15.46brlcadit really is one of those lightbulb issues that should suddenly go off eventually and you'll wonder how you ever understood it differently
17:16.12TC-Ruchoright, but still, I don't quite see the difference in doing  oed / /region/primitive  and   oed /group region/primitive
17:16.31TC-Ruchohmm
17:16.49TC-RuchoI tried both, and they work the same way
17:17.12brlcadthey'll give the same end-result until you have 'region' used in multiple places
17:17.22brlcad(not in 'group')
17:18.44TC-Ruchook, I have just modelled some basic stuff, now I'll complete the webcam model, and maybe I'll get what you mean once the modell get's bigger and more complex (although I think I would need to reuse some regions in order to see what you mean)
17:18.48brlcadseriously, oed tutorial
17:18.51brlcadit will explain a lot
17:19.12TC-RuchoI've been reading it for a long while now
17:19.30TC-Ruchoit's just that it puzzled me out since I had a preconcept about how it should work
17:21.22brlcadhm, that discussion gave me an idea for a terminology doc
17:22.46TC-Ruchoyeah, that left hand path and right hand path notation is not what I would call "clear" but anyway
17:24.24brlcadhaving to specify the path to a primitive for a keypoint is really the point of confusion
17:25.37brlcadthat's a technical limitation by the fact that there is no keypoint and deriving an implicit keypoint based on bounding box sizes is questionable (someone will still probably do it eventually)
17:34.14d-loI say:  Take the average of the 8 points of the Boundingbox and make that default keypoint for oed.  
17:37.21TC-Ruchobrlcad: I got it now, the only way to understand the difference is to group some regions, and implicitly reusing the regions by making copies of the group
17:37.29TC-Ruchoit is all clear now
17:40.41``Erikhrmmm
17:40.55``Erik*snrkt*
17:47.57brlcadheh
17:48.28brlcadd-lo: that is the idea, what I meant by "someone will still probably do it eventually"
17:49.10brlcadthe problem then becomes unexpected behavior issues since that keypoint isn't exactly easily worked with until a variety of other commands are updated too
17:49.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33930 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/ (2 files in 2 dirs): document the new -R option for e/draw/B in the old htmls docs and for B in the new docbook docs
17:49.45brlcadrotate and translate something around, add an object, reverse the rotation and you find out it's not reversible
17:50.39d-loWell thats just operator error/dumbness.  Code can't fix that ;)
17:51.00``Erik*nod* plus the issue when you have something like a bigassed box with a tiny little cylinder sticking way out and the keypoint is off in space instead instead of where you think it 'should' be
17:51.49``Erikponders allowing keypoints to be manually selected and saved as attr's to be future default for that comb
17:51.51brlcadd-lo: right, but usability and interface design can seriously make is a non-issue vs a major/subtle cause for confusion and unexpected behavior
17:52.41brlcadyeah, some what to manage keypoints more as more than data values, second-class citizens in the db sense would be good
17:53.15brlcadhaving things like 'l' and analyze report the keypoints would help, visually showing keypoints, etc
17:53.26``Erikooh, here's a good case to screw the 'center of bb' approach, imagine a cylinder with one side slightly cupped (rcc - sph), that'd come out close to the center of the sphere, not the physical object :)
17:54.45brlcadnegatives are the worst, the expected keypoint is usually the center of mass on the positive evaluated space
17:54.54brlcads/mass/volume/
17:55.39``Erikand "wait while we run rtweight to find the cm" is probably not tolerable :D
17:55.47brlcad:)
17:57.14d-lo``Erik: that might mess up a center of mass approach, but not for center of BB.  especially if the center of BB is being used for a simple default keypoint for oed.
17:57.15``Erikout of curiosity, when nurbs is working to satisfaction... will it be 'just another primitive', or are we going to push to be kinda a nurbs only engine (mebbe with construction information stored to allow old style editing)?
17:58.20``Erikum, bb is computed in a way that it should be close to the union of all primitives in the tree, even if there're subtractions, iirc
17:59.46``Erikif this prims minX < bb minX, bb minX = this prims minX; ...
17:59.57d-loso a bounding box is *not* maxX, minX, maxY, minY, max Z, min Z ?
18:00.01brlcadjust another primitive
18:00.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33931 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am g_qa.xml gqa.xml): the mged command is gqa instead of g_qa, rename accordingly
18:00.15brlcadwith a bunch of support to go from csg->nurbs on the fly
18:00.44brlcadso we can still leverage the optimizations and guarantees if there are implicits
18:01.05``Eriktry it out, dave, make a sub comb and do make_bb on it :)
18:01.09brlcadbut make it even easier to visualize and analyze anything via the bridge
18:02.18``Erikaight, I was under the impression that nurbs could represent any geometry we currently have perfectly (within floating point fuzz), so *shrug* was just wondering. it's my day off, my brain ain't fully in gear, nor will it be
18:03.01brlcaddoes a final distcheck, suggests others that might care about release compilation do so as well for their favored environment
18:04.01brlcad``Erik: it can for the most part .. it's just wildly more complex to store and deal with than other primitives and about an order of magnitude more data values to represent the same thing
18:04.10d-lo``Erik: Hrm, just tried it and it performed as  expected it to :/
18:04.26brlcadsphere goes from having about 6 values to over a hundred for a decent approximation
18:04.36brlcadsimilar for arb8's
18:05.12d-lo``Erik: ah, I see what you mean now.
18:05.21brlcadinstead of 24 values, suddenly becomes about 300 values
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18:23.10``Erikthought nurbs could do a sphere in 2 patches
18:23.34``Erikor was it 4 (tetrahedron-like)
18:24.27``Erikd-lo: how you expect things to work probably isn't how joe blow off the street does :D you're tainted
18:29.56d-loWell, I think the number of tainted users > number of Joe Blow Off the Streets ;)
18:47.26*** join/#brlcad bitminer (n=bitminer@h96-60-82-113.vrnawi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net)
18:47.33``Erikin the tiny self-selecting community you see here, sure, but there are what, 670,000 known downloads? I'm imagining a fairly large number of those are unvoiced first time users :)
18:54.37d-lowon't mention his script "DownloadMetricPadder.sh"
18:54.43d-lo:D
18:55.55d-lobut you are right, there are prolly alot of first timers that end up shying away :/
18:58.48*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
18:58.48*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.2 is posted (20080207)
18:58.51brlcadTC-Rucho: you have a full tcl interp there so that can be used
18:58.56``Eriktcl sub-expressions
18:59.00TC-RuchoI checked some tcl's docs and according to them,  [expr {2*2}] should be fine to include in an input line
18:59.02*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@64.74.225.82)
18:59.08brlcadyep
18:59.11TC-Ruchobut it keeps telling me error
18:59.19brlcadonly caveat is default globbing
18:59.25TC-Ruchomged> in fuck.s rcc 0 0 0 [expr {2*2}] [expr {2*2*2}] 0 5
18:59.26TC-RuchoError: extra characters after close-brace
18:59.31``Erik* will mess up globbing
19:00.03brlcadwe have a globbing evaluation mode enabled by default so that things like "draw *.r" will work
19:00.34brlcadwhich includes character classes, draw [a-z]*.c
19:00.48brlcadso those conflict with tcl evaluation
19:00.54TC-Ruchoseems that I should disable globbing to input stuff, but still, is there a more elegant way?
19:00.55brlcadyou can have one or the other, default is globbing
19:00.58``Erik[expr {2\*2}] works, or you can turn off globbing
19:01.05brlcadyou can toggle it off with: set glob_compat_mode 0
19:01.12brlcador you can escape the globbing chars
19:01.37brlcadin fuck.s rcc 0 0 0 \[expr {2\*2}\] \[expr {2\*2\*\2}\] 0 5
19:02.11TC-RuchoI think it would be better to scape globbing rather than tcl expressions
19:02.26TC-Rucholike draw \*.r
19:02.34TC-Ruchoand keep [expr {2*2}] working
19:02.37``Erikodd choice of primitive name O.o
19:02.55brlcadprobably a 'part' primitive ;)
19:03.12brlcadah, rcc, guess it's an approximation
19:03.28``Erikpeople are more apt to treat the geometry tree like a filesystem than an expression engine *shrug*
19:03.28TC-Rucho``Erik: heh, that's because this tcl expression thing was getting on my nerves
19:03.45TC-Rucholol
19:03.58TC-Rucho@brlcad | ah, rcc, guess it's an approximation <--- lol xD
19:04.06brlcadTC-Rucho: it's been oft-discussed, how to get the best of both worlds -- the folks that want globbing would cry bloody murder, and they're the expert modelers
19:04.06``Erikif you don't use globbing, turn it off, set that to be default in your .mgedrc *shrug* it's all good
19:04.49brlcadthose that know how to write tcl can easily just set the var and be done with it
19:05.50TC-Ruchotcl == ugly mix of C and... bash?  anyway, we'll have lisp bindings eventually and everything will be good
19:07.03``ErikI think tcl is older than bash, but it does take cues from the bourne/korn family
19:08.13``Erik(dang linux weenies, all not knowin' the history of it all :)
19:09.02``Erikhuh, bash precedes tcl by a year, neat :)
19:10.20TC-Rucho(:
19:18.32brlcadTC-Rucho: awesome -- native bindings?
19:18.49TC-Ruchobrlcad: hm?
19:19.15*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
19:21.06TC-Ruchobrlcad: well, my usability goal is to get a lisp repl for mged, so that one can use lisp directly to input commands, math and scripting
19:22.05bitminerWhile were on the topic of TCL... any one have difficulty building lib Bacon Lettus and Tomato ... libBLT in windows.  I am getting error : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _TclInitSubsystems referenced in function _TkConsoleCreate
19:22.30bitminerNeed me a BLT right now.
19:22.43TC-Rucho.. bacon, lettus, tomato... that sounds like a salad
19:22.53louipcsandwich
19:23.00TC-Ruchoright, sandwitch
19:23.03bitminerIt's more like C soup
19:24.01brlcadTC-Rucho: right, but binding to mged commands how?  you can bind straight to the lib, through the mged binary (ugh), through a custom interp, etc
19:24.30brlcadwould be awesome to have a swig interface to libged so there'd be bindings available in everything they support
19:24.36bitminerit is externed via extern void TclInitSubsystems _ANSI_ARGS_((CONST char *argv0)); in tkConsole.c
19:24.59bitminerwraped in some suspicous #ifdefs
19:25.14brlcadbitminer: hm, you're compiling using the msvc build files or autotools?
19:25.36bitminerWas trying autotools in Cygwin.  I have had more luck in msvc
19:25.41bitminerso msvc for now
19:26.00TC-Ruchobrlcad: I have not even started with that, what I've said is the 1st global usability goal. I'm just giving my first steps modelling with brlcad (you may have noticed already). Once I know it enough so as to make improvements I'll grab the source and/or make the lisp repl using bindings to libmged or whatever I see fits best
19:26.16brlcadthe msvc8 files should be the most up-to-date and are what are used to make releases
19:26.36bitminerI have done some Swig in the past binding C# to C++ in linux allwoing Windforms apps wirtten in windwos to be run in Linux on Mono
19:26.51brlcadthe 9 files shouldn't be far behind, the other dir relies on cmake but only compiles the libs
19:27.19bitminerI have noticed that the msvc files only support release
19:27.32brlcadthat's a bob-ism
19:27.39brlcadhe got tired of managing both
19:27.45bitminerThis was one of my first issues and MSVC defaults to debug on start up.  I emailed this to the mailing list
19:28.12bitminerbob-ism?
19:28.24brlcadbob, one of the devs
19:28.38brlcadhe does a variety of quirky things :)
19:28.40bitminerOk
19:29.02bitminerAre you using CMake to generate the VS project files?
19:29.04brlcaddoesn't talk much, just likes to quietly code
19:29.10brlcadno
19:29.14brlcadthough that would be cool
19:29.26bitminerIt is a suposed rumored feature of CMake
19:29.33brlcadyes, it is
19:29.45brlcadand it works -- that's the other cmake-based build I mentioned that we have
19:29.52brlcadit just doesn't build everything
19:30.28brlcadour build system is pretty big.. takes many weeks/months to set everything up that we need with any build tool
19:30.37bitminerOk so I could possibly use Cygwin  autotolls or CMake, Windows env Cmake, or Windows env Visual Studio
19:30.58``Erikhrm, here's a posting claiming that swig doesn't play with lisps (but does with scheme and erlang)
19:31.00brlcadwell yes and no, more no than yes
19:31.11``Erikthough uffi/cffi around libged would be neat
19:31.17brlcadbitminer: you can use autotools or the msvc8/msvc9 project files to get a full build
19:31.25brlcadthe cmake build files will only build the libraries
19:31.42bitminerOk got it thanks
19:31.43brlcadwe have like two dozen libraries
19:31.48brlcadand over 400 binaries
19:32.22bitminerholy cats
19:32.28brlcadmged is just one of them :)
19:32.46brlcadgranted, it's the biggest by far
19:33.03d-loheh, binary envy.
19:33.23brlcadmost of that 400 are unix-style commands that do one thing and are streamable so you can tie them together for much more powerful functionality
19:34.01brlcadala cat | awk | sed | grep, ours focus on geometry, images, and data file processing
19:34.22bitminerHow do they communicate, MPI, sockets, carrier pigions?
19:34.27starseekerunix pipes
19:34.35starseekerbites us when working on Windows though
19:34.40brlcadpipes and sockets
19:34.54bitminergot it
19:35.06bitminerLook a boost for IPC?
19:35.27brlcadthe SGI_Cube example on the wiki shows a couple commands being used for image processing/conversion
19:35.43brlcadyeah, I've looked at it before .. what about it? :)
19:35.51bitminerInter Process Communication (IPC)
19:36.24``Erikyeah, we know what ipc is... :)
19:36.33bitminerMost of the code looks to be C.  What is your take on C++ in this project and Boost C++ and 0x support
19:37.11``Erikthe work in rt^3 is using boost at the moment, and c++ is starting to creep into the codebase :/
19:37.15brlcadmost of the bigger project infrastructure for the new modeling interface is being done in C++ (using boost and stl heavily)
19:37.26brlcadall the new brep/nurbs work is c++
19:37.43bitminerSo it is an option then?
19:38.11brlcadall of our existing core libs are going to stay pure C (libbu, libbn, librt, libwdb, etc)
19:38.21brlcadbut new code, it's an option
19:38.37bitminerOK.  Will Boost compile on all your platforms?
19:39.10brlcadit's just not cool to be half-assed about it, using little tidbits of C++ throughout a code that is 95% plain C isn't cool
19:39.16brlcadjust makes for bad C++ and bad C
19:39.34brlcadyeah, most of boost compile's fine -- at least no issues so far
19:39.55bitminerYes I can understand wanting to maintain consistency.
19:39.56``Erikyeah, if someone commits c++ stuff in a .c file, I'll break their kneecaps O.o I'll try to be gentle about kneecap breaking if it's c99
19:39.58``Erik:D
19:40.07brlcadthe new parametric constraint solving system that madant has been working on is the closest to causing boost to snap, but it's been fine
19:43.52brlcadponders gsoc projects
19:44.12bitminerYes I think I read about this using Spirit?  GSOC proj? for parametric modeling
19:44.18brlcadyep
19:45.06bitminerWell I'll keep banging on the Win32 build.
19:45.07brlcad``Erik: irix64 said he has a patch for you to review on his site if you're interested, dunno when he'll be back on
19:45.30louipchehe he pms me about the patches too
19:45.36``Erikok
19:45.38brlcadbitminer: send the error to the devel mailing list, To Bob or whomever ;)
19:45.39louipcbut he disappears before I can respond
19:45.46``ErikI'll keep an eye out for him
19:45.54brlcadsounds like it might be something new -- tcl was just upgraded
19:46.11brlcadmight be easier to install activestate's tcl and then just change the linkage to use that instead of building
19:46.18bitminerOk will do.. There were multiple.  I fixed most just stuck on libBLT at the moment.
19:46.22brlcadlouipc: really?  jeez
19:46.32brlcadlouipc: let me know if it gets to be a problem
19:46.41louipcit's all cool
19:46.49brlcadk
19:47.20brlcadstarseeker: the tcl folks liked your archer screenie
19:47.33``Erikhe needs a lot of steering and handholding, I'd hate to see his enthusiasm crushed, though :)
19:47.38starseekeroh, the tire wizard? :-)
19:47.43brlcadthey (jokingly) said the gui looked dated, referring to ttk updates
19:48.14brlcadbut that the tire looked great ;)
19:48.17``Erik(does ttk mean that aquatk is now a dead-end)
19:48.20starseekerwould love to take a stab at using ttk
19:48.27brlcad``Erik: hardly
19:48.43``Erik<-- has managed to avoid that entire chunk for the most part
19:49.16``ErikI made a button in wish once, otherwise I just imitate code already there for my patches and hope I guessed right :)
19:50.22starseekerhad to fight the busting of Archer with the lastest tcl/tk as an excuse to take Archer apart and put it back together using ttk widgets
19:50.39starseekerer, fight using it as an excuse
19:54.14starseekerfigures Archer is having enough trouble without me messing with it like that ;-)
19:56.51starseekerbrlcad:  Are you close to tagging for the release?
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20:11.19``Erikreboots brlcad's new machine again
20:11.32starseeker``Erik:  is that the new bz server?
20:11.51``Erikyeah
20:12.18``ErikI'm being aggressive about keeping it bleeding edge until everything is migrated to it, so we have a good launch point
20:12.26``Erikbleeding stable edge, that is
20:12.35starseekerah
20:12.51starseekershould migrate his stuff to that one and free up some space
20:13.37``Erikand it's back up
20:13.57starseeker``Erik:  At some point can you show me how to get to that box?
20:14.00``Eriklooks like it has an 80 gig drive in it
20:14.09starseekerer, well nevermind :-)
20:14.25starseekerwill just suck it up and get a terabyte drive
20:14.33``Erikhm, I don't see you in the passwd file
20:14.41d-loI thought it was supposed to have >80
20:15.13``Erikoh, wait, 120g
20:15.41``Erikthat's odd, there may be an unallocated partition
20:18.35``Erikaah, reading it wrong, 80g for home
20:18.49``Erikrefers back to where he stated his brain would not be functioning today
20:25.43starseekerwas dbbinary the one that got renamed to bo?
20:26.26starseekerchecks NEWS
20:29.15starseekerah, yes
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20:39.35*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.2 is posted (20080207)
20:41.17CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33932 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (9 files): Add more MGED docbook man pages by Janine and Cliff
20:59.39*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
20:59.39*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.2 is posted (20080207)
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22:24.34TC-Ruchohey guys, if you like to do inline math just like me and hate that \[expr {mathstuff}\] gay sh*t, you can type in => \[proc unknown args {set ::that \[expr $args\]}\]    so you can just do \[mathstuff\]   (:
22:25.37TC-Ruchothis works by setting the unknown handler to perform an [expr ...] to the screwed up input (math without preceding expr)
22:25.44TC-Ruchohope you like it
22:26.35TC-Ruchonote: and desabling globbing it get's even better
22:28.02TC-Ruchobrlcad: should I add this to the brlcad-wiki as a tip?
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23:27.50``Erik*yawn*
23:28.21``Erikbar commercials on tv heh
23:28.32elite01some movie on vlc heh
23:29.04``ErikI was laughing at the existance of, not just commenting on what I was seeing :D vlc is good stuff, though
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23:33.05brlcadtc-rucho1: hah, that's a really fantastic way to abuse tcl
23:36.21brlcadgreat hack/tip
23:57.18``Erik\[mathstuff\] makes me think LaTeX
23:57.55``Erikthat'd be awesome if tcl were kicked to understand tex math mode, one step closer to literate programming :D
23:58.35``Erik(or generate tex from the tcl)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090303

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090303

00:50.33*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
00:56.08starseekerreformats his new external hard drive with ext3
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02:41.33CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33933 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/clone.c mged/clone.c): var doesn't need to be global, make it static
02:41.54CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33934 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/nirt.c libged/rt.c libged/rtcheck.c mged/rtif.c): these commands that run external tools weren't migrated to libged correctly so that they identify their run-time path correctly. the bu_brlcad_root lookups need to happen on the final argv that is exec'd.
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03:02.44CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33935 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: refixed run-time tool invocation bug where commands like rt/rtcheck/nirt/vnirt weren't being found unless path was set. this makes them work again regardless of path.
03:02.50brlcadso that fixes the last issue and distcheck passes, so tomorrow i'll tag and post
03:07.07tc-ruchobrlcad: glad you liked it. I find tcl much more friendly now. Should this trick be added to the brlcad-wiki?
03:07.54tc-rucho(I ping timeouted some time ago and maybe missed something)
03:20.24brlcadsure, why not
03:20.56brlcaduseful tips that help get the job done, perfectly appropriate
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04:09.37yukonbobhello, cadheads
04:30.24bitminerDocBookWiki : http://doc-book.sourceforge.net/homepage/
04:44.39bitminerhttp://www.scrollyourwiki.com/index.php?page=product  Wiki -> DocBook translator
04:46.32bitminerhttp://code.google.com/p/wits-parser/ - Another wiki -> DocBook translator
04:54.32CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33936 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: It's in there, it has a man page - go ahead and announce coil.
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11:42.28d-loMornin all
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12:50.26brlcadyo
13:00.46d-loyo.
13:00.46tc-ruchohey guys, is there a chamfer/fillet function with some weird name I'm not aware of?
13:00.59d-lobrlcad: Meeting at 1400 FYI
13:01.03tc-ruchoor brlcad does not have this feature (yet)?
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13:16.07brlcadd-lo: alrighty
13:17.04brlcadtc-rucho: doesn't have feature edits like those two at the moment
13:20.01brlcadthere are some commands that assist, like blending a cylinder, rounding off the end, rounding a box, and a few others, but not specifically chamfer and fillet as feature edits
13:20.12brlcadyou have to just apply the negative boolean
13:20.54tc-ruchoI would like to know how to do that on this model: http://tc-rucho.homelinux.net/webcam.g
13:21.43tc-ruchoI really wonder what was brlcad specifically used for in the 20 years it's been arround
13:22.55tc-ruchoI have a hole in a sphere, and want to chamfer that
13:23.17tc-ruchodoing it with bolean subtract or intersect would be really rough
13:29.08d-loyou just want the opening in the hole (in the sphere) to have a 45 degree chamfer?
13:30.18tc-ruchod-lo: more or less, actually, rounded edge, but if you check the model I just linked, you will see _why_ this would be a really tough task if only manual boolean operations were used
13:30.34tc-ruchod-lo: just open it and  B orbita.c
13:31.13tc-ruchoI've already done some chamfer here and there using trc
13:31.40tc-ruchobut this case it's different
13:31.58tc-ruchoI have decentered holes in a sphere
13:32.09tc-ruchothat makes a double-convex edge
13:32.26d-lohrm, can't hit that addy you linked
13:32.51tc-ruchomaybe the dns is screwed up, I'll use the ip instead
13:33.14tc-ruchohttp://190.191.172.28/webcam.g
13:33.15tc-ruchothere
13:33.50tc-ruchod-lo: I recommend you to do a  view aet 75 30 0
13:33.54tc-ruchoand render
13:35.23tc-ruchoI want to fillet/chamfer the holes in carcaza.c
13:35.44tc-ruchoB carcaza.c; rt -M -F0 -w 1669 -n 784 -V 2.128826530612245 -C0/0/50 -P16 -H0 -J0 -l0
13:35.54tc-ruchothat will give you an idea of the problem
13:36.29d-lothanks, but I have a decent handle on the commands ;)
13:36.37tc-rucho(:
13:36.45d-lofirstly, I need to comment on the tree struct you have going.
13:36.53tc-ruchoit sucks, right?
13:37.02tc-ruchofirst time drawing anything in brlcad
13:37.15tc-ruchoso, tell me, what's wrong with it
13:37.18d-loin order for something to *exist*, it needs to be in a region.
13:37.48d-loinside carcaza.c, there are two solids that do not belong to a region.  This invalidates the csg.
13:38.10tc-ruchoo..k..?
13:38.13tc-ruchowhy?
13:38.36tc-ruchoare you telling me I should make combinations of only regions?
13:39.03d-lothats the simple explaination.  Better than what I was typing lol
13:39.29d-loIn order for a primitive to *be* something, it needs to have Material information associated with it.
13:39.43d-loand the only way for a primitive to get that is to belong to a region.
13:40.30d-locurrently esfera-externa.s and esfera-eterna-menor.s do not belong to a region, so technically they don't exist.
13:41.05tc-ruchook, and what's all this for?
13:41.20d-lofor valid csg modeling.
13:41.30tc-ruchook
13:41.33tc-ruchofixes the tree
13:42.00tc-ruchoI don't think this helps for the chamfer thing in carcaza.c
13:42.27tc-ruchohowever, if it will save me troubles in the future, I'll apply it
13:42.42d-loI would think that carcaza.c should become a region...
13:43.03d-loranura-superior.r and ranura-frontal.r should become combinations.
13:43.15tc-ruchowhy?
13:43.37tc-ruchowhat I still don't get is why isn't it valid to do bolean operations between regions
13:45.42d-loWell CSG modeling, in my opinion, is best approached from a Reality perspective.
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13:45.58d-loif you are going to make a hole in a piece of wood....
13:46.20d-lothen youwould subtract from that wood
13:47.00d-loit would be rather silly to make a cyl out of another piece of wood and *then* try to make that cyl become a hole in the wood.
13:47.25d-loWith your model, you have a sphere that you are subtracting various things from it
13:47.45d-lothe sphere exists, but you are using other prims to subtract from it.
13:47.59d-loI am probably not explaining this very well, lol
13:49.10tc-ruchonot really.. that was just to keep track of the objects. See, I'm not very comfortable with having to name every object I create. So in order to keep track of them I group the primitives I intend to use for subtraction
13:49.16tc-ruchoor for everything else
13:49.44tc-ruchoso I can then do x object and see where does it belong
13:50.03tc-ruchoif you have a better way I'd like to hear about it
13:50.28tc-ruchoI come from AutoCAD, never named a shit, just modelled
13:50.35d-loheh :)
13:50.40d-lowhats your email addy?
13:50.45tc-ruchoI know, AutoCAD is not CSG
13:51.05tc-ruchod-lo: you are not gonna spam it, right d-:   tc.rucho@gmail.com
13:52.23tc-ruchobtw, I got to go in about 15 minutes
13:52.38d-lokk, i will hurry
13:54.08bitminerBack in the ether: posting from yesterday: DocBookWiki : http://doc-book.sourceforge.net/homepage/
13:54.30bitminer<PROTECTED>
13:54.38bitminerhttp://code.google.com/p/wits-parser/ - Another wiki -> DocBook translator
13:55.16bitminerfor thoes interested in wik docbook.  I am going to try and install this on my server today.
13:55.51d-lotc-rucho: the chamfer on that, will indeed, be a tough one ;)
13:56.48d-logetting a nice smooth one atleast.
13:57.35tc-ruchod-lo: see what I meant (: I did some basic chamfer on camara.r  but this was a totally different task
14:02.45tc-ruchoI'm checking the .g database format definition in order to see if chamfer/fillet operations could be added without breaking backwards compatibility. Once I figure out how 'ev' works and some other stuff here and there, maybe I'll implement a fillet/chamfer function. Still, I will have to do a lot of research to acomplish that
14:04.18tc-ruchod-lo: shall we continue this later? It's time for me to go, I'll be back in about 5 hours
14:04.22d-lobeveling on an edge like that could be done with BoTs, but then you lose the true roundness
14:04.32d-loI just emailed you
14:04.45d-lomoved the region levels around a bit and took care of two overlaps.
14:05.19d-lokk.  I might be here :)
14:06.49d-loto any crypto gurus:  If you have the unencrypted data and the encrypted data, is it difficult (or possible) to derive the key used for that encryption?
14:11.58brlcaddepends on what cipher was used
14:12.20d_rossbergd-lo: it depends on the encryption algorithm: it is very hard for the usual asymmetric public key algorithms to dereive the secret key (e.g.)
14:12.29brlcadbrute force, you search the keyspace encrypting until you match the encrypted
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15:30.07``Erik*readreadread*
15:30.37d-lojust learn an new word and are excited?
15:30.40``Erikhm, I get some acne on that webcam model
15:30.51d-loacne?
15:30.56``Erikwords are for nerds
15:31.02``Erikyeah, uhm, hold up
15:31.17d-loyou done moving your computers yet?
15:32.32``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/~erik/webcam.png
15:32.40``Erikoh hell no, I have other shit to do :D
15:32.52``Erikthe computers will be the last things
15:33.15d-loacne = little white dots on the cyl?
15:33.19``Erikyeah
15:33.29d-lostrange....
15:33.42``Erikfloating point errors, probably due to having surfaces at the same location instead of slightly offset
15:34.55starseekergrumbles at packages that have to be signed for and heads out
15:35.01d-lohrm.  I didn't see any duplicate geometry when I was looking through it.... so two cyls in the same space could cause that?
15:35.10d-lostarseeker: whats in the packages?
15:35.27d-lomost things I have to sign for are ususaly electronic gadgets
15:35.32``Erikyeah, among other things
15:36.43d-lo``Erik: you speak asm?
15:37.07``Erikum, some flavors
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15:42.50``Erikif, y'know, you need help on 65xx, 68xx, z80, mips, ... and a little x86 :)
15:43.30d-lox86
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15:43.53d-loI did a 'for dummies' excursion into it a few years back, but i forget things quick :/
15:44.35``Erikmost of my experience writing that is with 16b segmented or bootstrapping/basics after the a20 gate is enabled and mode set to 32 paged
15:44.47``Erik(like, after 'grub' hands off control to a kernel)
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16:45.23madantbrlcad: is spirit a problem :) ?
17:01.04starseekerd-lo: friggin shirt
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20:01.39PrezKennedyhmm the price of a refurb mac is almost the same as a new mac
20:01.46PrezKennedyi dont think they get how that works
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20:38.16``Erikhey, irix, I heard you have a patch for review?
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22:02.41brlcadmadant: nope other than their own claim that they really stress the compiler's ability to instantiate templates
22:02.54brlcadso it's not very portable to older c++ compilers
22:03.12brlcadbut that's a new project so portability to the ancients isn't nearly as important
22:27.02CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33937 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/gqa.c: Fixed a bug where the code was writing off the end of an array. Also added code to handle arbitrary blank lines and comment lines.
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23:18.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33938 10/brlcad/trunk/src/shapes/coil.c: Tweak ending point z equation in coil.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090304

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090304

00:59.03``Erikinstalls rsync on the new machines heh
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02:36.46``Erikyuh oh
02:53.22brlcadmm?
02:55.45``Erikum, /usr/web is bigger than the new mcahines /usr, I'm making /usr/home/web
02:56.03``Erikwith symlinks, of course
03:05.40madantwonders when 1 PB hard-disks are going to be commonplace
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03:14.01``Erikyowza, a 9tb sata drive
03:15.55``Erikform factor sizes may need to go up to get bigger drives it they cant' figure out a way to pack data tighter
03:16.11``Eriks/it/if/
04:02.01madanthmm.. but i guess maybe 7 years down the line ;)
04:09.00``Erikmebbe *shrug* or mebbe we'll find a better medium
04:10.41``ErikI vagually recall something about a special quartz that used lasers to isolate polarized molecules in a cube, was on a show called "beyond 2000" back in the mid 90's iirc, something like that (a real 3d lattice opposed to ferrous material on a 2d surface) might be that kick
04:13.25madanttrue .. i mean without a better medium it would be tough to make much more progress they have literally squeezed everything possible out of the present tech :D
04:13.53``Erikyeah, they've already stood the dipoles on end to pack them tighter heh
04:14.44``Eriklittle more intense than painting an iron oxide goop on some mylar and calling it good heh
06:06.28starseekersees QT 4.5 is out and heads to download it
06:08.20starseekerwonders a little why the file is ".bin" extension...
06:23.15starseekerah, fancy installer
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12:34.08brlcadowchies
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12:56.08Axman6BigAToo: knee + desk?
12:56.22d-lomornin all.
12:57.30brlcadhowdy d
12:57.44d-lobrlcad: hows the shoulder?
13:00.38brlcadbout the same
13:00.45d-lobah suckage.
13:01.00d-loJust getting up or heading to sleep? ;)
13:55.44``Erik*yawn*
13:56.04``Erikdidja take a look at vegastrike, dlo?
13:57.43d-lono, not yet.  Youngest is coming down with a cold (again) and that took most of my evening up :/
13:57.52``Erikah, bummer
13:58.20d-loYeah.... its always a precursor to *EVERYONE* getting sick.
13:58.36``Erikhttp://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/ when you get time, it might be just the thing you're looking for
13:58.53d-loSo its time to swing by the store and get more Vitamin-C and Clorox Wipes.
13:59.32``Erikhrm, I bought some zinc pills after mike (g) claimed they help, can't make any claim to how effective they are (if at all) though
14:01.35d-locool, thanks for the linkage.
14:01.56d-loYeah, been trying a few different 'remedies'  zinc is among them.
14:04.37``Erikdidn't see a release announcement :/
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14:10.35madantshoulder ?
14:33.17starseekerhas tried vegastrike but never figured it out well enough to start playing it properly
14:34.29``Erikthe default one is very elite-like (a pain to get into)
14:35.01``Erikum, for some reason, I was thinking it was a wc clone yesterday, I think it may've started as that and changed? I dun 'member no mo'
14:35.33``Erikmebbe I was looking for a wc and came across it *shrug*
14:35.41starseekerthere are mods for it (I think someone did some Star Trek models)
14:35.45``Erik(wc == wing commander, in case anyone's wondering)
14:35.55``Erikyeah, the privateer one looks interesting
14:36.15brlcadmadant: just a rotator cuff injury I'm working on healing
14:36.17starseekerAFAIK, it's the best open source game of its type
14:36.40``Erikd-lo has neat ideas for a space game, vs might be a good starting point *shrug*  :)
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14:37.35starseekerooooo - I hadn't looked closely at the Paraview license
14:38.27madant:) get well soon
14:38.31starseekerIt looks like it might actually be all BSD or close enough
14:39.05brlcadstarseeker: it is the 3-clause bsd
14:39.30starseekeris that the one with the advertising clause?
14:39.36brlcadchanged last year iirc
14:39.44brlcadno, that's what it was
14:39.47brlcadthe four clause
14:39.50starseekerah, cooooool
14:40.09``Erikhm, the bsd weenies tend to call it the 'revised bsd license'
14:40.13starseekerwill attempt building the GUI interface code for paraview with QT 4.5 :-)
14:40.14``Erik:)
14:40.52``Eriksometimes 'sans advertising clause license', but I haven't heard that one in a while
14:40.58brlcads/the/a/ their fouth clause had something to do about markings
14:41.05brlcadnot advert
14:41.23``Erikuhm, it was the one that said you had to give credits to the reagents of ucb
14:41.32starseekerHeh - http://www.paraview.org/paraview/img/xm1002.png
14:41.46starseekerJerry Clarke (US Army Research Laboratory)
14:42.12``Erikheh, isn't that one of the images in the conf room we use?
14:42.31starseekermight be
14:44.36``Erikbrlcad: I've bee n moving data using tar over a ssh tunnel, because I'm a bad netizen. :) once it's as good as I feel like getting it, I'll let you worry about rsync some. Making rsync work will probably involve mucking with the old system in a way that compromise security O.o (too many files/dirs that aren't world/group readable)
14:47.04brlcadeh, it shouldn't -- the sync it does now runs as root -- just need/want to run as root on the receiving end too so it can reconstitute all of the users/groups/perms/links
14:48.21``Erikhm, I d'no how to set up a 'server' component, running 'rsync -avz -e ssh erik@bz.bzflag.bz:/some/dir /some/dir' gives me permission issues
14:49.07brlcadright, cause that's "erik" on the receiving end
14:49.10``Eriksince it was first copy, I figured the path of least resistance was good old tar
14:49.18``Erikroot login should be disabled, though
14:49.24brlcadhave to open up root ssh for the sync
14:49.25``Erikand I couldn't figure out how to convince it to sudo
14:49.33``Erikoh, well, that's the thing I didn't want to do :)
14:50.03``Erikwill make a new account with uid 0 for this
14:50.10``Erikonce the tar copying is over
14:50.14brlcadit's only temporary, and you can push from bz instead of pulling so you only need new server to have root ssh open
14:50.28``ErikI'd be more apt to make the old server vulnerable than the new one
14:50.29``Erik:)
14:50.49brlcadyeah, that'd be better
14:51.12``Erikok, I thought I was missing something, guess it really is linux grade ugly
14:51.20brlcadthere's a way to set up an rsync server on the receiving end too, but don't have experience with that
14:51.57``Erikyeah, I saw some stuff about setting up stuff in sudoers, but that page left out details on how to actually kick it off
14:52.41brlcadit's very close to tar+ssh, just that it does only as much as it needs, can be throttled down, and be interrupted and pick up where it left off, will do hard link, recreate user/perms, etc
14:53.20brlcadand gives a nice report
14:54.18``ErikI'm currently doing something like "ssh bz.bzflag.bz 'cd /some/dir ; sudo tar zcf - .' | sudo tar zxvf -"
14:55.08``Erikthe remote sudo is the part that's making rsync unfun :D
14:55.10brlcadnods
14:55.37brlcadyou'd have to add the sudoers to make it promptless
14:56.20``Erikhrm, rsync automatically tries to sudo but fails if prompted?
14:57.52brlcadhm? no rsync just uses the connection method you specify and runs rsync on the remote
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15:00.21starseekerhmm, interesting - plplot is apparently using cmake to build docbook http://plplot.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/plplot/trunk/doc/docbook/src/CMakeLists.txt?revision=9044&view=markup
15:00.34starseeker'course, they're not using fop...
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15:03.14starseekerputs down the fun toys and heads in to get some Real Work done
15:47.04``Erik(anyone gonna be up for lunch?)
15:48.13``Erikhrm, I think the bulk of the data may be moved
15:48.44``ErikaaahhhHHHHHhhhhh, -rsync-path="sudo rsync" !
15:58.45CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33939 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/gqa.c:
15:58.45CIA-40BRL-CAD: Modified get_densities_from_database by copying the density data to a character
15:58.45CIA-40BRL-CAD: array that is one byte bigger. This larger array gets passed to
15:58.45CIA-40BRL-CAD: parse_densities_buffer which writes an EOS in buf[len] to make the code more
15:58.45CIA-40BRL-CAD: succinct.
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18:17.39``Erikrebuilds all of macports on his lappie
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18:26.55CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33940 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: re-encountered a bug in the X24 interface where it crashes if the image size is small. give a specific test case that provokes the crash (implicitly using /dev/X).
18:30.17``Erikwonders if a cleanup party shoulda been called for before moving data
18:30.33brlcadnah
18:30.44``Eriklots of huge tmp dirs
18:30.50brlcad]the egregious use has been already trimmed
18:31.27``Eriklots of mp3s O.o
18:32.07``Erikthinks -v may not've been an optimal flag
18:32.13starseekercould probably get rid of some of the old screenshots, or put them in the gallery...
18:32.24``Erikhow many gigs are you using for those? :D
18:32.37starseekerchecks
18:32.47``Erikbets less than one
18:34.45starseekerhmm - apperently my whole directory is less than 1 gig
18:34.56starseekerall rightie then
18:34.57``Erik*shrug* if brlcad is ok with the amount of data being moved, *shrug* it's his bandwidth and his dollar
18:35.24starseekerevidently can't help too much anyway, at least in a relative sense
18:35.48``Erikyeah, I think I'm at 115 megs in my home directory heh
18:36.34starseekerthat image file for the earth screenshots is 180 megs
18:36.44``Erikirrelevant
18:36.58starseekerhates to delete that anyway - NASA may move or remove it at whim
18:37.16``Erikout of something like 65 gigs to be moved, it's neglegible
18:37.31``Erikdon't worry :)
18:37.52starseekerwow
18:38.14starseekerheh - Multics 1992 tarball is less than that one image
18:38.38``Erikheh
18:38.41``Eriky'know
18:38.51``Erikin '00, I was talking to astronomy students
18:39.29``Erikthey claimed that there was no way that computer imaging would ever be usable, they were still pulling new data off of 50 year old plats
18:39.53``Erikand now they're using ccd arrays (exactly what I was tlaking about almost ten years ago) to do astronomy.. size grows fast, we need more dataz :D
18:40.02starseeker:-)
18:40.09starseekerwonder if they scanned the old plates
18:40.20``Erikimagine trying to cope with your image on a '92 machine
18:40.31starseekerwinces
18:40.48``Eriklets see, I BELIEVE around '92, I had a 486dx33 with 4 megs of ram, my buddy had just gotten a 486 that had 8 megs of ram
18:40.48starseekerYeah, things have really changed
18:40.57``ErikI was really jealous, he didn't need a special boot disk to run doom2
18:41.14starseekeris currently trying to download a complete copy of the US Census 2008 Tiger data
18:41.31``Erikum, don't do it to bz, pls :)
18:41.35starseekerno, no
18:41.43starseekergot a terabyte external hd
18:41.57``Erikah, I almost bought a couple tb sata's and a card last nigiht
18:42.00starseekeralso have national atlas data on that :-)
18:42.13brlcadthis was and interesting hopkins project, basically scan about 1/4 of the sky -- http://www.sdss.jhu.edu/
18:42.20starseekerReally Good Stuff, and all free.
18:42.45``Erikshoot, I found an awesome website a month or so ago, lemme try to refind it
18:42.50brlcadthe numbers there are a bit old, though to put it into perspective, that was 40TB back around 1996
18:43.06starseekerholy cow
18:43.44starseekerwill probably backup more of public.resource.org too
18:45.00starseekernotes they don't have a torrent for the whole sky survey yet :-)
18:45.32``Erikfeck, can't find it now... was a site where you put in your lat, long, and time, and it shows you hemisphere mapping of the sky with various objects annotated
18:45.33``Erik:(
18:45.57``Erikhttp://www.fourmilab.ch/yoursky/ looks similar, but cruder
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19:14.32CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33941 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/text.tcl: This fixes bug 2555653. I found only one key combo that produces the bad behavior (i.e. <Control-Key-slash>).
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19:43.34starseekertries the rtarea patch and blinks at the huge numbers it's spitting back
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20:42.37``Erikack, lisp pinkie
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21:42.41Ralithhehe
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22:31.31brlcadstarseeker: gave richard rtarea to work on yesterday, might just let him fool with it for a few weeks
23:02.25``Erikto what end?
23:06.15brlcadget cpa working
23:06.24brlcadand verified
23:06.26brlcadand optional
23:06.54brlcadshould be a nice bite-sized project to work on
23:07.02``Erikerm, cpa? (brainfart moment?)
23:07.10brlcadcenter of presented area
23:07.15``Erikah
23:07.53brlcadthen work on options to ignore subobjects or do automatic smoothing to give a biased area
23:07.54``Erikneeds to trick [] into sending () :/ suffering lithp pinky
23:08.26``Erikfor some reason, I was thinking rtedge heh :)
23:24.07CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33942 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/geometree/GeometryBrowser.tcl: All roads now lead to the same result as far as the -u option to tops is concerned.
23:25.41brlcad-u made it not show _GLOBAL iirc
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090305

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090305

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06:44.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33943 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/NIST_DENSITIES:
06:44.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: Add example _DENSITIES file for gqa using the data available from NIST:
06:44.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: http://physics.nist.gov/PhysRefData/Star/Text/contents.html File can be
06:44.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: expanded from other sources if there is interest, but the primary purpose is to
06:44.11CIA-40BRL-CAD: have a convenient non-trivial example handy for gqa. Needs to be reviewed to
06:44.13CIA-40BRL-CAD: make sure all values are consistent with those on the site, in case of operator
06:44.15CIA-40BRL-CAD: error on input.
07:27.04astrobearis brl-cad participating in google summer of code again?
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09:37.27brlcadastrobear: we won't know if we get accepted for a while, but we will probably apply
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11:04.00d-loMornin all!
12:27.25brlcad2lo
12:46.58CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33944 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/Makefile.am: Bad developer - don't break distcheck. Also, install the densities file somewhere.
12:50.34starseekerwonders if anybody models ceramics in cad
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13:31.46CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33945 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/bo.xml: Fix the syntax in the bo docs
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13:57.53``Erik*yawn*
14:01.43``Erikceramics? O.o
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14:43.59starseeker``Erik:  NIST has a database with some density information on ceramic materials
14:44.12starseekerincluding high temperature superconductors
14:44.54starseekermight be a tad specialized to put in the NIST_DENSITIES file, but hey, why not...
14:45.19_sushi_is there some default densities file in brl-cad?
14:45.31starseekerNope
14:46.28starseekeradded an example one, but it is not any sort of default
14:47.30starseekernumbers are still subject to change, etc. etc.
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15:42.56``Erikheh.
15:43.17``Erikdang fools and your irc logs, all makin' rsync work too hard
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16:34.49brlcadstarseeker, ``Erik, et al: make sure all/any publicly visible changes you made are annotated in NEWS
16:35.01brlcadI have all I know of except for a couple from bob still
16:35.30starseekerUh, doc tweaks
16:35.56starseekerone sec.
16:38.40CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33946 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Well, it is user visible - corrections to bo man page's description of how the u option is supplied.
16:39.52starseekerdoes fixing the blathering of the Geometry browser due to using the tops -u command count?
16:40.27starseekerknows, user visible... user actually requested fix... grumble..
16:42.43CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33947 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Note correction to Geometry Browser - user won't see continual warnings about tops options any more.
16:43.11starseekerOK, I should be good
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17:34.03``Erikmost of mine are adrt, which I'm not being public about just yet (as none of the public clients ... work)
17:34.33``Erikyeah, I'm all up to date
17:42.49brlcadk
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19:20.28starseekerbrlcad:  the scl tarball is just under one meg
19:22.04brlcadreally, one "meg"?
19:22.34starseeker992K
19:22.39brlcadthat's surprisingly tiny
19:22.59brlcadsmaller than jove
19:23.31brlcadrather, smaller than just about everything except awf, regex, and tnt
19:23.40starseekerthis one right?  http://www.mel.nist.gov/msidstaff/sauder/SCL.htm
19:26.16starseekerwas kinda wondering about the concern about how big it was...
19:30.48brlcadyeah, that's the one
19:31.46brlcadI remembered scl being bigger than that, that express toolkit was small but the class libs were bigger
19:32.58brlcadhm, something's not matching up :)
19:33.08brlcadI just downloaded scl and it was 1.7MB compressed :)
19:33.20starseekeroh, - I recompressed it with gzip
19:33.45brlcad6.3MB .. okay, that sounds more what I remembered
19:33.54starseekerah
19:34.52brlcad*fwaps* starseeker
19:35.33brlcadstill, that's not too bad, about the size of libz or libpng
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19:37.33starseekergiven our use of boost and docbook, along with the possibility of using something like OGRE and/or Qt, I hadn't really thought about it much...
19:38.14brlcadwe use a subset of boost
19:38.26starseekerwell, OK, but still
19:38.37``Erikbut moving
19:38.38brlcadand ogre is in a diff module
19:40.21starseekerok, I give up ;-)  
19:40.44brlcadmore concerned with the default checkout getting unnecessarily increased and muddying up history -- we need it, just don't know how much we need just yet
19:41.11starseekerI take it express itself is the bare minimum?
19:41.24brlcadyeah
19:41.32brlcadthat's where the size matters, though
19:41.49brlcadit's relatively very small, so fine either way
19:41.57brlcads/very//
19:42.09starseekerAh
19:44.05starseekeralrightie - thanks :-)
19:46.49starseekerwants to have all the grunt annoyances out of the way for Dave
19:47.15``Erikhm, dave was talking about ditching boost as much as possible at one point, iirc
19:47.30starseeker``Erik:  Yeah - libpc also uses it though
20:01.22brlcad``Erik: he used pieces of boost that weren't exactly fun
20:02.03brlcadused it in a few places that weren't really called for imho too, where we provide interfaces for a simpler form e.g. networking and threading
20:02.27brlcadlibpc's is a lot more warranted with the solver subsystem
20:12.44brlcadusing boost for the C++0x portions is about as far as I'd use it in most cases with a few exceptions
20:14.11``Erik*shrug* never dug into stl or boost myself :)
20:19.37brlcadthe stl is good stuff, that's one of the best aspects of c++
20:20.13brlcadbasic class library with algorithms, containers, and data types
20:20.27brlcadstd::string ftw
20:20.32``Erikyeah, I saw examples for basic stuff like linked lists, hashtables, etc
20:21.26brlcadyeah, strings and the various containers are the most useful and most used
20:29.56starseekereyes express - apparently the yacc/bison steps are not optional. Hmm
20:37.27starseekerah, it's not just the c code - they're doing some tricks.
20:39.25starseekermutters something under his breath and digs into the configure script
20:54.32starseekerhmm - why con't yacc deal with this??
20:54.52starseekerbrlcad: 64 bit build on linux made it trhough distcheck
20:55.57brlcadif they have a configure script, could just make them a subconfigure
20:58.34starseekerthey have a very nonworking configure script
20:59.31starseekerin fact, they've got configure serving as the trigger for the make process
20:59.36starseekerit's loony
21:02.20starseekerlooks like the update has the script logic at least running, so I'll try to gronk what's going on there
21:04.27starseekermutters to himself about convoluted build procedures...
21:33.05``Erikwhat convoluted? it's simple, everyone is right and everyone else is wrong. see? easy ;D
22:12.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33948 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
22:12.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: few missing annotations, note that parker fixed a (pretty severe) bug in
22:12.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: 'prefix' that caused it to not write out the renamed objects out to disk. this
22:12.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: looks like it was possibly a libged migration oversight, but now fixed.
22:35.47CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33949 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/text.tcl: This fixes bug 2278235 (i.e. Can't cut-n-paste under Windows).
23:14.45starseekerah, that's what I messed up... - didn't patch correctly... hmm
23:15.27starseekermaybe the update to the SCL libraries here will work, with some tweaking:  http://www.statik.tu-cottbus.de/fileadmin/project_dth/scl/
23:23.26starseekerok, that's more promising
23:24.30starseekerbrlcad:  The NIST file doesn't build, but the updated one just succeeded (with some warnings)
23:24.49starseekerso I was wrong - we can probably do a subconfigure after all
23:45.39CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33950 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/NIST_DENSITIES: Add note that NIST_DENSITIES shouldn't be used for production analysis
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090306

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090306

00:00.55starseekerbrlcad:  There we go - this is a combination of the cottbus.de improvements and my own tweaks: http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/scl-3.2.tar.gz
00:03.34starseekerI don't know about the make being triggered by configure, but presumably it can be made to do what is needed for a subconfigure
00:03.47starseekerhumbly chews on crow...
00:05.47``Erikchews on his salsbury steak
00:05.50``ErikI think mine tastes better
00:05.50``Erik:D
00:13.40starseekerprobably :-)
00:14.28starseekerwonders if brlcad has tried crow meat on his far reaching culinary adventures
00:14.43starseekersomebody must have tried eating one at some point
00:14.58starseekerwoot - builds on linux successfully too
00:34.16louipcI had pidgeon
00:41.00starseekerhow was it?
00:41.06``ErikDOVE MURDERER!
00:52.20louipcoh it was good, tasted like chicken
00:53.05louipcyou can probably find it in an authentic chinese restaurant. it might depend on the time of year
01:12.14starseekerah, there we go
01:12.37starseeker./configure and make now behave (by default anyway) as expected:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/scl-3.3.tar.gz
01:16.42starseekermakes note to figure out needed targets for install, distclean, etc. and heads home
01:17.17``Eriklooks at the clock and shakes his head
01:17.48starseekerwas in one of his frustrated moods today and wanted to get SOMETHING useful done
01:19.08``Erikproductivity is over-rated
01:19.28``Erikgo home before your wench selects other body parts for the pickle-jar, boy :D
01:19.38starseekerwinces and logs out
03:21.51starseekergrinds his teeth as the scl bundle that succeeded on OSX and Linux fails immediately on his home box
03:24.39louipcjust building?
03:33.41starseekeryeah - the lex scanner is throwing out c code with two statics in it
03:41.43starseekeractually, there are several steps to the final expscan.c
03:48.51``Erikis the compilation host specific?
03:50.08``Erikif it's not, I'd argue that it's acceptable to put the compiled .c file output into the repo to avoid the yacc/lex chain
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04:30.37starseeker``Erik:  not sure
06:26.47CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r33951 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcMathGrammar.h: adding various operators to the expression grammar
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09:22.04CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r33952 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcMathGrammar.h pcMathLF.h pcMathVM.h): pcMath VariableGrammar completely defined also taking into account closures
09:52.48brlcadwoot
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14:21.12CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33953 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob added centroids and moments of intertia to the gqa command
14:24.38CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33954 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob fixed a handful of smp bugs in gqa where there were critical sections that were not being semaphore-protected.
14:28.00CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33955 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob make gqa handle reading in density files better. now handles arbitrary blank lines and comment lines. also fixed a bug where it was writing past the end of an array.
14:34.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33956 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
14:34.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: bob fixed doing a copy action on Windows, and doing a paste for any platform.
14:34.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: previously, pasting would wipe out whatever was selected (which would normally
14:34.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: make sense but not for read-only command console selections). this addresses sf
14:34.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: bug 2278235 reported by lbutler (Can't cut-and-paste under Windows)
14:38.50CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33957 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
14:38.51CIA-40BRL-CAD: bob fixed a bug in mged where the last character would end up getting ignored.
14:38.51CIA-40BRL-CAD: the only key combination he found that produced that behavior was a
14:38.51CIA-40BRL-CAD: control-key-slash binding. overriding the binding (to do nothing) fixed the
14:38.51CIA-40BRL-CAD: issue for bob. no word yet from peter_gillissen that reported this bug as sf
14:38.53CIA-40BRL-CAD: bug 2555653 (Neglecting last character command-line).
14:39.13brlcadthere, that should do it
14:44.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33958 10/brlcad/trunk/ChangeLog: update the changelog with changes since the last release, 2009-02-06. preparing for release 7.14.4
14:48.18CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33959 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS include/conf/PATCH): bump it! 2009-03-06 is release day for 7.14.4
15:04.28CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33960 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/Command.tcl: This applies the same bug fixes that were applied to MGED (i.e. bug #2555653 - the command line has an extra character at the end that is not used and cannot be removed; bug #2278235 - can't cut-n-paste under Windows)
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15:44.16CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33961 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/ (lib/Command.tcl mged/text.tcl): Disallow cut operation in command windows.
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17:51.47CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33962 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/setup.c: Fixed typo.
17:53.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33963 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/rtif.c: Modify f_nirt and f_vnirt to strip _mged_ prefix before calling libged.
17:57.23CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33964 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (mged/setup.c tclscripts/mged/ray.tcl): This fixes the "Pick Edit-Primitive" mode in MGED.
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18:30.56brlcadheh, bears in space
18:39.23brlcadwow.  trunk passes distcheck but stable doesn't (from the last release)
18:39.36brlcadsounds like someone didn't follow through! :)
18:39.52starseekeruh oh
18:39.57starseekerdid I mess up again?
18:40.11brlcadno worries
18:40.22starseekerwhat was busted??
18:40.24brlcaddoes rtwizard work for you?
18:41.02starseekerhmm - not popping up a window here
18:41.11starseekeroh, there it goes
18:41.18brlcaddon't know how extensive, just distcheck for the 7.14.2 stable merge didn't go well (or released with a failing distcheck) .. bunch of regress/mged files missing from the dist
18:41.32brlcadstarseeker: oh, that reminds me
18:41.36brlcadspecific feature request there
18:41.48brlcadshould be a really quick change
18:41.52starseekersure
18:42.34starseekerblast it, rtwizard is busted
18:42.35brlcadadding a button to rtwizard that saves a shell script of what it would do instead of running the steps
18:42.53starseeker"unrecognized unit type - Unknown_unit
18:43.04brlcadrutroh
18:43.28brlcadarcher not working isn't a show-stopper but rtwizard is
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18:45.48starseekerseeks the Wisdom of Bob
18:46.08starseekerIt's an error on db load...
18:46.12brlcadtry first :)
19:35.54CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33965 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: update the merge steps to allow for a little more copy-pasting love next time. probably could make this into a script using propsets to track the last merged revision id. something to think about next month.
19:44.01starseekerThat's.... really weird
19:45.35brlcadhm, I just ran into the "slow framebuffer" bug, hum.
19:46.47starseekerbrlcad:  rtwizard does not appear to be busted after all, at least not in the way I was thinking
19:47.13starseekerI was getting Unknown_unit on failure, but I just checked the database and it is an  unknown unit
19:47.21starseekervery strange
19:47.31starseekerwith a "normal" unit it is working fine
19:47.39brlcadokay, good
19:47.55brlcadwas about to just comment that it seems to be working for me here
19:48.00brlcadjust aweful slow
19:49.36starseekerprobably shouldn't wipe out on Unknown_unit, but I don't suppose it's a common sitution
19:50.25brlcadprobably not
19:50.55brlcadi'd say leave it be unless you plan on writing a new wizard rendering interface
19:51.32brlcadsomeone should do that.. it'd probably end up being the most utilized tool by the analysts
19:53.33CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33966 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: annotate the last-minute injection by bob to fix Pick Edit-Primitive mouse interaction mode. he fixed it so it works again.
19:57.40starseekeris still pissed at himself for somehow messing up on the last release...
19:57.46starseekersomehow this isn't my week
19:57.49brlcadaha, the delay only happens with remote fbserv's
19:58.13starseekerso the question is whether it's the network's fault or fbserv's?
19:58.18brlcadstarseeker: heh, it was minor, forget about it
19:58.21brlcadoh, it's fbserv's
19:58.39brlcadthere's no reason it can't shovel a 1024x1024 image in an instant
19:58.45starseekerhrm
19:58.49brlcadit's taking 15sec or so
19:58.53starseekerow
19:59.02brlcadsee if you get it:
19:59.04starseekersounds like a job for Shark
19:59.10brlcadfbserv 1 /dev/X &
19:59.14brlcadoops
19:59.19brlcadfbserv -s1024 1 /dev/X &
19:59.46brlcadrt -F1 -s1024 db/moss.g all.g
20:00.37brlcadnasty
20:00.52starseekeryeah, it's slower no question
20:01.01starseekerhauls out shark
20:03.04brlcadit's all I/O waiting, you'll be hard pressed to find it with shark, but maybe
20:03.32starseekerah, so more up dtrace's alley?
20:04.04brlcadactually, old-school gprof might help since it has a wallclock counter iirc
20:04.43brlcadyou need something that checks wallclock time, not just cputime -- maybe a way to get shark to show system i/o
20:05.16brlcadoh, or maybe better yet
20:05.23brlcadrun shark on fbserv
20:05.48brlcadthat'll probably say blitting, but should lead to the calls on the server side that are responding
20:06.07brlcadwhich maybe help point to where on the client, and who's problem it is
20:07.22brlcadyet another option, recompile and/or enable libpkg debugging to see what the chatter looks like
20:08.15starseekerHmm - profiling fbserv, 50.5% was X24_blit
20:08.34brlcad"that'll probably say blitting" ;)
20:09.02starseekeryep, you were right :-)
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20:11.03brlcadthere's probably a way to get at the libpkg debug vars through rt
20:11.55brlcadmy suspicion is that it's sending one pixel per packet, and is just busy waiting on the network to send 1024x1024 packets
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20:12.21starseekerwhat does bu_bitv_clear do?
20:12.26brlcadwow, even rt -i is slow
20:12.33brlcadactually, even slower
20:12.51brlcadbu_bitv_clear() erases a bit vector
20:13.32starseekerok, part of ray shooting
20:13.43brlcadright
20:13.48brlcadat least, that'd be my guess
20:13.57brlcadseveral primitives use bit vectors for their book keeping
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20:19.06*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.2 is posted (20080207)
20:19.38brlcadwith the fb at 1024x1024, any rt -i > -s512 runs dog slow, yet smaller is fine
20:19.56brlcadwithout -i though, any rt > 600 runs slow, yet 600 is fine
20:20.15starseekeron remote display?
20:20.23brlcadyeah, same fbserv as above example
20:20.42brlcad-i will make it 8x slower
20:20.51brlcadbecause it's multiple passes
20:22.21brlcadwhich is fine, I'd expect that -- it's either fbserv's processing, the packetsize/mode from rt, the network transfer itself, or something in libpkg
20:23.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33967 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS:
20:23.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: was finally able to pin down a reproducible-yet-previously just rumored bug
20:23.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: about 'slow renderings' to some problem with remove fbserv's. Problem minimally
20:23.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: occurs with an fbserv running a /dev/X interface >512 pixels wide for -i or
20:23.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: (more interestingly) >600 without -i.
20:23.50starseekerblinks - profiling of the interactive rt -i results in 46% time spent in ml_set_interrupts_enabled
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20:24.06brlcadgprof?
20:24.20brlcadwhat's calling that?
20:24.24starseekershark
20:24.27starseekernot sure yet
20:24.41brlcadclick the little arrow
20:25.01starseekerseems to have something to do with semaphore_wait_signal_trap
20:25.18brlcadthat'd be thread contention
20:25.20brlcadtests
20:25.33starseekerfind_user_regs is the last entry
20:25.39starseekerfor that subtree at least
20:25.45brlcadnope, still slow with -P1
20:26.26brlcadI still suspect it's some buffering packet size issue
20:26.32starseekeryeah, probably
20:26.40starseekerhunts gprof docs
20:27.06``Erik<PROTECTED>
20:27.30brlcad--enable-profiling
20:27.43brlcad(which just adds the -pg to the right places
20:27.56starseekerah, build time
20:27.57starseekerk
20:28.15brlcadyeah, complete recompile
20:28.34brlcadthen you run the app(s) and they'll leave little gmon.out file turds everywhere
20:28.58brlcadthen when you run gprof, it reads the turds and the binary and produces the call tree
20:29.15``Eriksometimes app.gmon iirc, depends on the os
20:33.15starseekerhrm - is rem_write the remote write command?
20:35.56starseekerIf shark's Time Profile (All Thread States) is getting close to wall clock capture, rt is spending virtually all its time in rem_write and fbserve is in libSystem.B.dylib's select, called by fbserve main
20:39.02starseekeris somewhat confused - why would rem_write be slow but pkg_2send be fast?
20:40.00starseekeroh, wait - pkg_2send is the top call
20:40.54starseekerok, that's odd but makes more sense
20:43.40starseekerbrlcad: just curious - are the hardcoded numbers at pkg.c:1103 of any concern?
20:48.27starseekernotices the HAVE_WRITEV flag - nevermind
21:22.16brlcadstarseeker: hard-coded numbers are always a concern, but much harder to avoid with networking code
21:22.51brlcadeasy enough buck-shot test though
21:23.43brlcadah, no matter, that's in an else block that isn't reached
21:24.49brlcadfinishes reading what starseeker said and realizes you realized that too
21:31.42starseekergprof has most of the calls going to _pkg_glong, __pkg_inget, and _pkg_gshort
21:31.48starseekerfor rt
21:32.28starseekerdidn't do a time breakdown though
21:34.18starseekeroh, I see
21:34.39brlcadoh, that is cool .. libpkg debugging is turned on if you just touch a file or set an ENV var
21:36.05brlcadokay, so eliminated that thought -- it is just sending one packet per scanline
21:36.16brlcadnot per pixel
21:44.23starseekersees story about idea of API for congressional data and cheers
21:44.28starseekerhas had that idea for quite a while
21:44.38starseekerdoubt it will ever happen though
21:49.03brlcadtries for the fifth time to successfully merge without getting a connection abort
21:55.42starseekerinteresting - the files generated for the step class library build on the Mac do NOT have the double static instances
21:56.55starseekerwonders what is foobared on his home box this time
21:57.08brlcaduser error
21:57.57starseekerfor a fully automated build process?  Well, maybe, but I don't know that my week has been THAT bad...
21:58.45brlcadthere's no such thing as fully automated ;)
21:59.15brlcadours is "fully automated" for many configurations and we could/do? document it as such, but there are still plenty of configurations that cannot be accounted for
21:59.29starseekertrue
21:59.31brlcada few flags, a few settings
21:59.48starseekersuspects flex/yacc setup is wonky...
22:00.22brlcadusually
22:00.41brlcadthat's neat.. breaking on rem_write
22:00.51brlcadc to render one line at a time :)
22:00.53starseekerat least it's working on OSX and Linux here if it comes to that
22:00.55brlcadclick click click
22:01.00starseekerheh - cool :-)
22:01.13starseekerare you seeing what I was with performance bottlenecks?
22:01.30brlcadi'm not looking at that, figured you were
22:01.36starseekerah
22:01.52brlcadno sense doing things twice ;)
22:02.45starseekerheh - well, I'm trying at least.  If it's sending one scan line at a time... hmm...
22:04.25starseekeris spoiled by Shark and blinks at gprof's output
22:07.33starseekerbrlcad:  any idea why gprof isn't giving me any % time?
22:07.49starseekeror rather, possible causes of it not doing so?
22:09.02brlcadit's all in the opts, I don't remember my gprof foo
22:09.22brlcad-F, looks like it
22:10.03brlcadhah, did not know about -E mcount
22:10.10brlcadthat would have been useful a few years ago
22:10.16brlcadshakes fist
22:10.22starseekerwhat is moncount I wonder
22:11.00brlcadsome thing
22:11.07brlcadit's their monitor counter
22:11.34brlcadbasically it's spending a lot of time in the profiler code itself because of a lot of calls, so it shows up
22:11.40starseekerah
22:11.44brlcad-E moncount would make it go away
22:11.51brlcadso will -F though, if you use it
22:12.10``Erikschrödinger's profiler
22:12.43brlcadif this last merge fails, I'm going to give up doing it from yonder busted network
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22:13.25brlcadhugs the stellar bear
22:13.26starseekerusually has to do it in sub-directory merges
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22:14.57brlcadso far, a very clean merge, but the net keeps dropping out
22:15.10starseekerfun
22:15.43starseekerdoes subdirs to make "bite sized" chunks that can slip between network outages
22:16.10starseekerwonder if they can make the subversion commit routine more robust to network drops somehow...
22:16.52brlcadI'm not sure if doing subdirs will make an impact on what revision sets it will attempt to apply
22:17.05starseekerhmm, that's a point
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01:46.19CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r33968 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcMathLF.h: lazy function implementations for Math parser
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03:53.34yukonbobhello, cadheads
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08:04.34joeedhhi. can brl-cad perform mesh CSG operations, resulting in new meshes?
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13:49.22``Erik_joeedh: yes. Fire up mged, build your csg, then do 'facetize' on your region or comb and it should produce a new mesh with the csg evaluated
13:50.05joeedhdoes it tesselate the geometry? if so, can you make it not do so?
13:50.22``Erik_facetize is the command to tesselate
13:51.07joeedhhrm.   thanks.
13:51.24``Erik_for 'real' (non-triangular) geometry, we do the CSG evaluation at raytrace time
13:52.22``Erik_I believe that facetize on a csg tree of meshes will attempt to use the original triangle data unless it doens't make sense (like where the triangles are cut)
13:52.33joeedhoh ok.
13:52.49``Erik_of course, if you try to tesselate a mesh, it should just give you that same mesh back... :)
13:53.17joeedhah well I really meant "triangulate" in this context, my bad.
13:54.06``Erik_hm, usually, meshes are considered to be of triangles... in OpenGL and DirectX, if you ask for a quad, it'll actually make you a tristrip or trifan
13:54.42joeedhof course.
13:55.12joeedhbut you can still often have polygons in a lot of structures, they just tesselate to triangles as necassary.
13:55.19joeedhah arbritary polygons I mean
13:55.31joeedharbitrary* I think is the right spelling
13:56.04``Erik_yeah, quad was just a specific example :) it's been a while since I've been in the guts of OGL, but back then a 500 sided polygon would still be reduced to triangles as soon as it was seen
13:56.46joeedhyeah, it uses a triangle fan usually.  opengl isn't really smart about tesselation properly, though i think there are better functions in glu.
13:57.04``Erik_and, uh, 12 years ago, the cpu used to generate all those coplanar triangles wasn't worth it, so it used to be a speed boost to just use tristrip/trifan or VAR's were fashionable at the time
13:57.30joeedhinteresting.
13:58.23``Erik_BRL-CAD's interactive display is wireframe with meshes getting every edge drawn, so jump in and experiment, there's useful visual feedback :) if you're looking for code stuff, the meshes are handled by src/librt/primitives/nmg/
13:59.03joeedhoh thanks.  yeah I was just wondering if we could someday use brl-cad's csg code in blender.
13:59.46``Erik_ahh, heh, we actually have some .py scripts to talk to blender for certain things :)
14:00.00joeedhreally? what sort of scripts? that's interesting.
14:00.21``Erik_lemme find a screenie of something
14:00.56``Erik_http://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/stryker_slat.jpg.html
14:01.20``Erik_the vehicle was created in BRL-CAD, the flora in blender, and it was rendered using the ADRT/RISE system stashed in BRL-CAD
14:02.00joeedhthat's cool
14:02.43``Erik_there's also a rendering of a glass cornelius somewhere, and one of the former BRL-CAD developers donated his NURBS code to blender iirc
14:02.45joeedhI heard brl-cad uses a radial-edge brep for some things?
14:03.11``Erik_uhm, I don't know, brlcad would be the guy to talk to, hwen he wakes up
14:03.33``Erik_I know there're a couple brep primitives, one is old and sucky, and the other is in progress and uses openNURBS
14:04.49``Erik_(frankly, I don't even know what "radial edge brep" means)
14:05.15joeedhit's the original non-manifold boundary representation.
14:05.41``Erik_*shrug* sorry, I don't know :)
14:06.22joeedhit's not widely known.  it's actually fairly difficult to get your hands on a paper about it, even.
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16:01.49brlcadjoeedh: mesh CSG ops are available in library form, through brl-cad's librt library
16:02.05brlcadwe have a generalized polygonal primitive type (n-manifold geometry) as well as a basic triangle primitive ("bag of triangles" geometry)
16:02.05brlcadwas awake, just busy pulling on an oar for hours then munching
16:03.43brlcadjoeedh: and it's not hard at all if you know where to look, especially if you have acm and ieee library access or old proceedings for siggraph, solid modeling, CAD, and other journals
16:03.52brlcad(for papers on it)
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20:35.10yukonbobhello, cadheads
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22:24.16brlcadhowdy yukonbob :)
22:24.46brlcadextra quiet day
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090308

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090308

00:00.26joeedhhi brlcad.  so where do you find papers on radial-edge? my friend had to order a paper copy from his university library.  I could only find the partial-entity paper, which I had to pay for :/ though that was 2 years ago, I admit.
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06:15.22starseekerwonders if it hurts his geek cred that he's never heard of Watchmen up 'til now
06:37.45joeedhhas heard of it, though not good things.
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07:49.21starseekerbrlcad:  OK, I'm guessing that both bison versions at work being < 2 and mine being 2.41 might explain part of the issue...
08:10.00starseekerbrlcad:  my bison isn't appending exp_ to its names, even if I add AM_YFLAGS = -p exp_ to the Makefile.am
08:11.44starseekermight hack around it by conditionalizing that one extern command based on whether the exp_ version or the basic version is defined, but that just avoids the problem instead of understanding it
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19:57.51starseekerdigs further - it IS adding the prefix, just not to the type definition - just the externed name
19:58.38starseekereyes the resulting expparse.h and wonders why there is any declaration of an extern with a type resulting from the bison output in a non-bison-produced file
19:58.57starseekercouldn't it just use the expparse.h definition... hmm...
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22:06.04starseekertars up what he's got for further pondering tomorrow
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090309

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090309

00:34.16``Erik_:/
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00:53.00bjorkintoshhow's everyone's favorite 3d program?
01:09.41brlcadfantastic
01:17.59bjorkintoshi haven't had much time lately to play around with it, sadly enough.
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05:11.51yukonbobhello, cadheads
05:21.50bjorkintoshcadheads?
05:21.54bjorkintoshi'm a bjorkhead.
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10:46.36d-loMornin all!
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11:59.51brlcadhola
12:02.18d-loMernin.  How was the weekend?
12:02.59CIA-40BRL-CAD: 0380.126.139.247 07http://brlcad.org * r1228 10/wiki/Main_Page:
12:03.41brlcada good mix of friends, crew, workouts, shows, movies, house projects, and food, but unfortunately not enough code
12:07.46d-loStill sounds good and productive though!
12:08.02brlcadoh it was
12:08.06brlcadvery much
12:08.28brlcadi'm not satisfied if I don't get to code though, no matter how productive
12:10.53d-lo...hrm, that almost sounds like a inspirational poster =D
12:11.22d-lojust need to paste that text ontop of a picture of an abnoxiously hot supermodel :)
12:15.30CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1229 10/wiki/Main_Page: /* Projects */
12:16.06CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1230 10/wiki/Main_Page: move tutorials up
12:30.57CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1231 10/wiki/IBME_Main: 'BrlCad' is not valid, reword into to not overstate scope/purpose , reorganize
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12:38.46``Erik__heh
12:39.36d-lobetter yet, with summer on its way in.... bikini's, chicks, Sean's car and License plate... could make some awesome promo material for the website!
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14:44.15starseekeris glad he didn't try downloading the 2008 US Census Tiger data earlier - 22 Gigs and counting
14:45.52d-lowhy would you want that?
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16:48.51d-lostarseeker: Off the phone.  Whats up?
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19:29.37d-lo``Erik: Yummy sightings in E36... are they hitting FNG as well?
19:30.57``Eriknot much yet, but we're preparing
19:32.44d-loI seriously might consider moving over to fng.  Fate leadership is, well, falling apart.  Are there any enforced level restrictions with FNG currently?
19:33.05``Eriknot particularly
19:34.02d-lokewl.
19:34.09d-loany levi's yet?
19:34.22``Erikmorbo is the boss, uh, peter can get ya in
19:34.36``Erikum, from yummy? no? there're a few in fng
19:34.57``Erikheh, I was supposed to be part of a hit today that woulda funded a levi, but it got called due to noise in 33/35
19:36.25d-losuckage.
19:37.41``ErikE36:54:55:21 is yummy's next site, it'd seem
19:37.48``Erikturtling up in 37 I guess
19:39.12d-lowhere you plan on parking your fleets?
19:39.48``ErikE37:74:31:10 is the sweet spot, I have some parked in 65 as well
19:41.11d-lois that the muster spot for fng?
19:41.34``Erikyeah, fo rthe 30's gang, it's a level 10 jg
19:44.29d-lonice.
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22:42.56brlcadpainful .. sync .. taking .. forever
22:43.09brlcad(transfer time, the sync itself was easy)
22:45.13``Erik__?
22:45.33brlcadstable sync
22:45.36brlcadnot server
22:45.53brlcadsvn commit taking forever
22:46.21``Erik__ah
22:46.36``Erik__um, the server script is wrong, it'll break the package registry if you try to use it :(
22:48.18brlcadk
22:48.35brlcadyou mean for syncing ports?
22:49.14``Erik__um, one of the lines is for /var/db, for your mysql and web stuff, but rewrites the /var/db/pkg stuff (which is real bad)
22:49.34``Erik__so'z I need to fix that so it's more specific
22:57.14brlcadwhat are you talking about?
22:57.19brlcadmy script, or one you wrote?
22:57.42brlcadmine shouldn't matter (and shouldn't be used for the sync), as it just dumps offsite
23:02.17``Erik__mine
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23:02.38``Erik__is fail :)
23:03.15brlcadgotcha
23:03.20brlcadwb Ralith
23:03.29Ralithty
23:03.44Ralithpower flickers are annoying
23:04.08brlcadups ftw ;)
23:04.14Ralithhas been tempted.
23:04.45brlcadtempted??  I consider it a requirement
23:06.19brlcadhave seen too many components fried due to bad electricity, fluctuations, (minor) surges, brownouts, ..
23:09.18Ralithreally? I thought PSUs generally filtered most of the harmful stuff short of serious surges
23:11.47brlcadheh, psu's are usually what fry the easiest :)
23:12.11brlcadbut probably because they get bombarded with crap for so long
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090310

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090310

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00:31.39CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33969 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (844 files in 82 dirs): merge trunk to STABLE from r33711 to HEAD r33968, syncs rel-7-14-4 candidate
01:22.15starseekergrinds teeth as his efforts at work on the mac flop on gentoo AGAIN
01:39.46bjorkintoshso ...
01:39.56bjorkintoshhow comes the mged tutorial is in reverse order?
01:42.43brlcadbjorkintosh: reverse order in what way?
01:43.25bjorkintoshPostscript Version (258 pages, in reverse order).
01:43.48bjorkintoshfrom this page: http://ftp.arl.army.mil/~mike/papers/88mged/
01:43.57brlcadjeez, that's old
01:44.20bjorkintoshindeed. is it not worth reading at all then?
01:44.46brlcadreverse order probably because of some printer that required it to output in-order
01:44.59bjorkintosh'cause some very kind people in #ghostscript (kens) righted the order!
01:45.01bjorkintoshand emailed it to me.
01:45.11bjorkintoshin both pdf and ps.
01:46.27brlcadyou could certainly read it, but realize that it was written in '88 .. 21 years ago
01:46.35brlcada couple things have changed
01:46.48bjorkintoshwhat's a good replacement for the document?
01:48.20brlcadbjorkintosh: have you even been to the main website? :)
01:48.25bjorkintoshyes.
01:49.19brlcadthen it should be kinda obvious, I'd hope
01:50.30bjorkintoshintro to mged.
01:50.33bjorkintoshindeedy.
01:54.29bjorkintoshdeep curiousity... i just had to read it
01:54.42bjorkintoshit was a little too annoying to read it in the reverse order though.
02:31.37starseekersmashes scl into building on gentoo and tars up for testing on the mac...
02:40.42CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33970 10/brlcad/tags/rel-7-14-4/:
02:40.42CIA-40BRL-CAD: stable merging and testing finally finished, tag 7.14.4
02:40.42CIA-40BRL-CAD: next time use a faster machine.
02:44.06starseekerbrlcad:  Are we open for committing again?
02:46.16brlcadnot until you see step 14
02:48.39starseekerk
02:49.26bjorkintoshi got an old book called the art of 3-d design... it's revived all these latent interests again.
02:49.38bjorkintoshi'm going to try to work through it using brl cad
02:50.40CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33971 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS README include/conf/PATCH): post-release bump revision number to 7.14.5 in anticipation of 7.14.6
02:57.32starseekerrealizes he shouldn't commit this until he has it in a form that won't bust distcheck anyway
02:59.40brlcadbjorkintosh: cool, feel free to share your progress as you work through it
02:59.50brlcadand of course ask away if you have questions
03:00.15brlcadstarseeker: indeed
03:00.43bjorkintoshi will.
03:01.01bjorkintoshso far, all the examples from muus's manual have worked.
03:01.23bjorkintoshi'm guessing mged is fully backwards compatible?
03:01.46starseekernot guaranteed, but it's not surprising a lot of it still works
03:02.49bjorkintoshvery well then, i shall go through the entire thing and note any broken parts...
03:03.12bjorkintoshi've been skipping the hardware specific content though
03:03.15bjorkintoshso i'm cheating a little.
03:08.14brlcadif you see /dev/sgip, just replace it with /dev/X
03:09.25bjorkintoshokay.
03:10.15bjorkintoshis tcl/tk already in it's 20somethings?!
03:10.20bjorkintoshi'm rather surprised...
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04:33.57Ralithit's pretty old
04:34.04Ralithyou can tell by how ugly its widgets are >_>
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11:54.57brlcadRalith: it actually has a fully revamped look n' feel now (the new ttk widgets)
11:56.15brlcadfully themable widget set, http://wiki.tcl.tk/11075
12:10.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r33972 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/chgmodel.c:
12:10.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: updated f_qorot() to properly rotate around point,direction related
12:10.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: to BUG "[ 2663014 ] qorot does not rotate around vector".
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13:20.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r33973 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libwdb/wdb.c:
13:20.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: changed vertex ordering in mk_rpp() to match new arb8 ordering
13:20.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: this relates to BUG "[ 2663183 ] arb8/rpp vertex order different"
13:28.45``Erik_uh
13:29.25``Erik_oh, that's keith hah
13:29.37d-loit lives!  i mean, Hey Erik!
13:29.43``Erik_yo, dave
13:29.55d-lohows your new office?
13:30.05``Erik_not bad now that the light is off
13:30.08``Erik_:D
13:30.35``Erik_here, wait, lemme push my sub up against the wall and crank it, ya'll didn't want that whiteboard to stay attached, didja? :D
13:30.37``Erik_*duck*
13:31.09d-loWhat we need is a McDonalds Style Drive Thru window in our wall.  I see no end to the entertainment with that. :)
13:31.13``Erik_ooh, I could stand on a desk and push the ceiling tile up and throw shit at ya, too :D awesome
13:31.26d-loSub?  "You don't have the balls" to do that ;)
13:31.36d-loWell, not shit, but stuff.
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13:37.21piksihi, on the brlcad homepage you state that "The solid modeling system is frequently used in a wide range of military, academic, and industrial applications including in the design and analysis of vehicles, mechanical parts, and architecture."
13:37.28piksiare there any examples of brl's usage in architecture?
13:48.11piksiin the quest for a foss bim modeler for architecture i've stumbled upon brl numerous times
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14:03.58brlcadhi pk
14:04.01brlcader, piksi
14:04.40piksihi
14:05.11brlcadpiksi: you'd stumble upon us mostly becasue we are 'the' (only/main) foss CAD system in production use (that we're aware of, fully foss)
14:05.47brlcadmost of our architecture history has been folks modeling buildings that perform loading and structural analyses
14:06.04brlcadlike what happens when you explode something near a pillar
14:06.42brlcadalas, not so much bim requirements as modeling for the purpose of running very specific analyses
14:06.54brlcador for generating basic drawings/visualizations
14:06.58piksibrlcad: yep, i know. there really really aren't any viable realistic cad options in foss apart form brl
14:07.06brlcadnods
14:07.32piksithere's an interest in the architecture field to strive away from autodesk due to their licensing and horrendous reliability
14:07.54piksiand there have been some isolated efforts to develop from architects to architects software
14:08.22piksii'm just thinking how realistic basis could brl be for a plugin(?) or other framework on top of it for bim/nurbs modelling of buildings
14:08.36piksias far as i've understood brl understands materials very well?
14:10.45brlcaddepends what you mean my "understands", but there is support for material types, region identifiers, arbitrary attributes
14:11.39brlcadour new modeling environment is specifically being designed to (hopefully) be fully plugin-based with modular pieces of functionality that lets us plug in old as well as new features
14:12.06brlcadbiggest issue is really just developer manpower -- the user demand is much much greater than the developer capacity
14:12.46brlcadand the few folks (not on our team) that could be devs are either off doing their own project or doing CAD development for their day job
14:13.05brlcadat least, as far as I can tell ;)
14:18.58piksiyeah it's completely understandable :-)
14:19.59piksii could perhaps get a few developers working on it but the funding would be from architects so the focus would be either on a fork or extensions for architectural bim...
14:33.52piksiso who are funding brl-development right now?
14:34.24brlcadpiksi: wouldn't need to be a fork per-se
14:34.44piksiyeah i'm always against forking if it's avoidable :-)
14:34.53brlcadthere is plenty of mutual interest/overlap -- the bigger issue just might be how the GUI evolves or how a new one is developed
14:35.43brlcadbrl-cad is still heavily funded by ARL
14:36.22brlcadmore than half the core devs are paid by or affiliated with the gov't in some fashion
14:38.30brlcadmost development, though, happens via simple consensus discussions where design decisions have to be made, only influenced by a developer meritocracy (i.e., those who contribute decide)
14:41.08piksibrlcad: ok
14:41.28piksiyeah the gui is a big issue
14:41.48brlcadif you've not seen this: http://brlcad.org/BRL-CAD_Priorities.png
14:42.40brlcadthat's our major project priorities (regardless of funding support, though most of that has major support too)
14:43.26brlcadbrep/nurbs support, networked geometry service, enhanced gui, and more open source collaboration
14:44.25brlcadstarseeker: tcl/tk aren't creating symlinks/copies -- something is missing from src/other/tcl/unix/Makefile.in and/or tk's too
14:49.21piksibrlcad: there are plenty of ideas for the gui on making architecture efficent which might interest also the funders oand developers of brl
14:50.07piksibecause we architects know very well something that isn't usable (due tot the horrendousness of many commercial solutions such as ArchiCAD, AutoCAD ADT etc ;-)
14:51.37brlcadpiksi: how much of that is really architecture-specific as it pertains to a gui?
14:52.54brlcadto date, we've intentionally tried to utilize domain-agnostic metaphors so that the package is really generalized to most CAD/solid modeling needs
14:53.20brlcadotherwise we'd gravitate towards CAE and analysis terms that are very niche
14:53.34brlcad(which would be bad imnsho)
14:55.08piksibrlcad: well, autocad architecture (used to be autocad architectural desktop) is a prime example how how bim modelling cannot be glued on top of a pure line/solid cad modeller
14:55.45brlcadfor domain-specific terms and metaphors, I'm hoping/intending that the new GUI be modular enough to have "overlays" where you get domain-specific (drafting, CAM, Architecture, electronics, etc)
14:56.05brlcadpiksi: you'll have to explain, never used it
14:56.11brlcadnor even seen it
14:56.47brlcadplus, was it a bad design, or bad execution (or both) .. could be a great idea and a horrible implementation
14:57.26piksiyes i'm very much for minimal basic gui with minimal restrictions on modularity (so that the basis of the gui will not restrict modifying it suitable for a certain job)
14:57.29piksiwell
14:57.42piksibrlcad: bad design && bad execution :-)
14:57.43piksibut
14:59.18piksibrlcad: autocad ADT was a prime example of how the 30 year old autocad paradigm was so restrictive that it didn't allow for an easily usable bim modeller on top of it. so it had a LOT of redundancies and also counterintuitive actions and in addition many of the tools had different usage logic
14:59.49piksiso a random set of (old) tools worked with a certain logic and a random set of other tools implemented later worked with a completely different logic
15:00.00piksi(and i very much prefer a PROPER CLI in a modeler)
15:00.36piksii hope this explains something
15:39.49starseekerbrlcad:  re: tcl/tk - OK, I'll see if I can track it down
15:40.06starseekergrr, I thought I had all the major functional updates
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15:45.03starseekerah I see it
15:51.04starseekerhmm - no, wait...
15:51.46louipcare there plans for a 7.14.4 tarball?
15:52.48starseekershould be - that's standard
15:52.55starseekerbrlcad:  want me to take care of that part?
15:53.16louipcok, just wondering hehe
15:54.08louipcI can pull off of svn, but some other people may not follow releases/tagging as closely
16:05.04CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33974 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tk/unix/Makefile.in: Re-add change to Makefile.in from revision 30417
16:10.43starseekerbrlcad:  OK, that looks like it got it - tk didn't know what SHLIB_SUFFIX was so it's no surprise things weren't working
16:13.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33975 10/rt^3/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): modification of a combination's tree
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16:35.54brlcadpiksi: yeah, that does (I think)  :)
16:36.03brlcadsounds quite congruent too
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16:47.25CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33976 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/src/other/tk/unix/Makefile.in: Add fix for tk unix Makefile.in from trunk rev 33974 to STABLE branch
17:10.53starseekergrr - now yylineno is not found in libexpress
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19:13.28``Erik_O.O http://www.edibleapple.com/ifart-developer-makes-40000-in-2-days/  iphone owners seem to have... issues... :D
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19:55.24piksibrlcad: if it's ok with you i'll discuss brl in a meeting soon and ask if there's mutual interest in cooperation/development and then discuss more with you brl developers
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22:08.04CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33977 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/ (Makefile.am TODO.BREP): additional BREP notes to go with the brep.txt notes as a general work breakdown scratch pad
22:22.00brlcadpiksi: sounds great
22:22.07brlcadlet me know if you need anything
22:26.23CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33978 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/TODO.BREP: few more entities and modifiers
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23:23.01starseekergrumble
23:23.22starseekerolder bisons don't seem to be generating yylineno, but the new one does
23:27.38Ralithbrlcad: cool! What's needed to make that work with mged?
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23:32.20Ralithjust Tk 8.5 and some config file somewhere?
23:35.54Ralithlooks like it needs to be hardcoded.
23:36.29Ralithand adds a new dependency of tile
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090311

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090311

00:55.23bjorkintoshis it possible to run the mged session on one machine and the display on another, remotely?
00:56.34bjorkintosheg: having mged on asimov and the display portion on acclarke?
01:06.16bjorkintoshfbserv
01:06.18bjorkintoshnever mind!
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02:28.35yukonbobhello, cadheads
02:43.06starseekerbraces himself and starts committing step stuff
04:03.35starseekeris forced to do a retake tomorrow - too much junk that must be cleaned out of the original NIST tarball before it is committed
04:04.37bjorkintoshhmm.
04:04.46bjorkintoshi have fbserv running on an other machine...
04:04.59bjorkintoshis it at all possible to seperate the command window from the graphics window?
04:05.15bjorkintoshso that the graphics window is hosted on the remote machine?
04:06.11bjorkintoshgreat. a crash.
04:10.07brlcadbjorkintosh: you should be able to display it remotely via simple remote X11
04:10.18brlcadjust set your DISPLAY
04:10.36bjorkintoshi have. but i'd like to have the command window on this machine and the graphics window on the other machine.
04:10.40bjorkintoshis it currently possible?
04:11.04brlcadtechnically, probably
04:11.14brlcadbut not exactly a tested configuration
04:11.22bjorkintoshah okay.
04:11.25bjorkintoshany hints then?
04:12.01brlcadtry "attach remotehost:0"
04:12.17brlcadhalf-blind stab
04:12.21bjorkintoshin mged?
04:12.23bjorkintoshokay.
04:12.25brlcadyep
04:12.30brlcadin the command window
04:12.51brlcadmight not recognize the syntax
04:13.42brlcadah, nfg
04:14.43bjorkintoshnfg?
04:15.12brlcad~nfg
04:15.38brlcadibot: wake up
04:15.39ibotACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on up and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!"
04:15.49brlcadnfg -> no fucking good
04:16.13brlcadbjorkintosh: well, you could set DISPLAY, then run mged -c, attach X
04:16.51brlcadcould even run gui and the classic console will still work
04:17.13brlcadaha
04:17.18brlcad"gui remotehost:0"
04:17.45brlcadit'll create both, but should do the trick for arbitrary hosts
04:17.48bjorkintoshmged -c works.
04:18.18brlcadgui is what you wanted
04:18.23brlcadgui -d remotehost:0
04:20.25bjorkintoshah i see.
04:20.36bjorkintoshit creats an identical screen on the remote machine.
04:20.45bjorkintoshso i now have two command windows and two graphics windows.
04:20.52bjorkintoshone on this, and the other on the remote machine.
04:20.59bjorkintoshso what's the fbserv bit for then?
04:22.22bjorkintoshhah! this kicks ass.
04:23.50brlcadyeah, and they all work together
04:24.33brlcadso if you really only wanted one command window on hostA and a graphics window on hostB, you'd issue gui for the other and then close the corresponding windows you don't want
04:24.58bjorkintoshaha!
04:25.29brlcad(note, mged will shutdown if you close all the graphics windows)
04:25.55bjorkintoshi now have the image displayed on 2 different screens. :D
04:26.00brlcadif you want no graphics windows, then you go with mged -c and manually run gui
04:26.23bjorkintoshthe machine running brlcad has no X, but i have two other ones which do.
04:26.32bjorkintoshand they're both currently showing the image as desired.
04:27.03brlcadfbserv is the framebuffer server -- framebuffers are used for displaying raster images, not for 3D interactive displays (we call those "display managers" or dm's)
04:28.49brlcadthe graphics window is technically a display manager plus an overlayed framebuffer server -- you can see how those two interact with each other via the raytrace control panel
04:32.13brlcadbjorkintosh: you said mged crashed earlier -- do you happen to have a bomb log file(s) in your directory?
04:32.33brlcadif you do, please upload to ftp.brlcad.org/incoming via anon ftp
04:32.48brlcador post it somewhere easily accessible
04:33.31bjorkintoshokay. if it happens again, i'll send it your way.
04:33.40bjorkintoshi deleted it immediately in annoyance.
04:35.31brlcadah, k
04:41.34bjorkintoshZzzz. or i won't wake up in the morning.
04:41.36bjorkintoshthanks again.
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10:48.41CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33979 10/rt^3/tags/gsph0/: Tagged for GeometeryService phase Zero milestone.
11:21.19d-lohuh.  Raytracing in DX11:   http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/31/1423247
11:46.12d-loCode Religion question:  'Goto' statement in modern C and C++:  Good, Neutral, Evil, and why?
11:49.02d-loMy personal take is: Evil as it leads to spaghetti and can easily be avoided by some re-structuring.  What are other people's opinions?
11:59.40CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33980 10/rt^3/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Removal of Boost libraries. Didn't work as well as I would have liked. Die boost, die.
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12:37.17brlcadd-lo: it is neither evil nor non-evil, just one of many tools available (and one often misunderstood/misused) -- whether it's the right tool for the job depends entirely on the situation
12:40.30brlcadit rarely is actually needed and beneficial, but there are some times when a localized goto is better than various alternate restructurings
12:42.20brlcadthat said, they are very rarely the best tool
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13:04.01d-lobrlcad:  okay cool.  I ran across some in rt^3, so i figured I would ask.
13:13.56brlcadd-lo: where at?
13:14.32brlcadah, I see
13:14.44brlcadall throughout ogre and some of the new code
13:15.34d-loI am not so much opposed to the stuff in ogre, since its being used as a lib.  Just the stuff we have control over. :/
13:16.42brlcadI see why he's using it, related to the 'exceptions' that libbu can throw with BU_SETJUMP/BU_UNSETJUMP
13:17.18d-lolack of exp talking here:  wouldnt a try/catch/finally work just as well?
13:17.24brlcadit's actually a pretty reasonable use in that place
13:17.25brlcadnope
13:17.55brlcadthose are c++ constructs that only work with c++ exceptions, hence the quoted 'exceptions' :)
13:19.49brlcadthere is an equivalent logical structure using if/then that could be used -- but it's only arguably better because you're already jumping
13:20.06brlcadjumps are very low-level C
13:20.28brlcadyou could implement C++ exceptions using them (and many compilers do/did), for example
13:20.31d-lohence 'faster' ?
13:20.43brlcadthey are .. exceptionally faster
13:20.47brlcadbut that's not the reason
13:21.36brlcadthey're just one of the ways in C you can achieve a multiple-scope break in logic flow
13:22.00d-loso its more coding style than anything else?
13:22.22brlcadtry/catch/finally are really glorified syntactic setjump/longjump/goto's for that matter
13:22.36brlcadnot really coding style -- he's responding to libbu
13:22.42brlcadactually, librt
13:22.59brlcadwhich will throw a jump on failure for some routines
13:23.20brlcadso he catchs it and returns gracefully
13:23.24d-lohrm, I will have to look at that deeper sometime soon i suppose....
13:24.50brlcadquick example:
13:24.52brlcad<PROTECTED>
13:24.52brlcad<PROTECTED>
13:24.52brlcad<PROTECTED>
13:24.52brlcad<PROTECTED>
13:24.54brlcadEND_MARK:
13:24.57brlcad<PROTECTED>
13:25.24brlcadfirst pass through, the jump point is set on that if line
13:26.29brlcadand it evaluates false, does the unitize and rt_shootray
13:26.34brlcadif rt_shootray() has a failure, it may jump -- which will return logic back to that if line and it'll evaluate true
13:26.54brlcadat which point it goes to endmark, unsets the jump, and continues on its way
13:27.21brlcadin this particular example, there was nothing important that needed to occur, but could have easily had more after rt_shootray() that would have been important to avoid
13:27.26d-locool.  Makes sense. :)
13:27.40brlcadyou can acheive the same in that particular example with just:
13:27.53brlcadif (!BU_SETJUMP) {
13:27.59brlcad<PROTECTED>
13:27.59brlcad<PROTECTED>
13:28.02brlcad}
13:28.06brlcadBU_UNSETJUMP;
13:28.16brlcadbut that's specific to that snippet
13:28.42brlcadand arguably less explicit
13:29.03brlcadthat's closer to what we do in our own code, though, with the jumps
13:30.08d-lopretty neat.  Has it been benchmarked to an equivilent try/catch?  I would be curious as to the results!
13:32.14brlcadyou can't use try/catch
13:32.23brlcadthey're not c++ exceptions
13:32.37d-lorighto, hence 'equivlent'
13:33.08brlcadthat is an equivalent mechanism, what do you mean?
13:33.43d-loJumping is a failure recovery mechanism (at least used like this), correct?
13:33.47brlcadif/then vs if/goto? not really much difference performance-wise
13:33.57brlcadsure is
13:34.20brlcador a roll-back logic redirect
13:34.46d-loand the above code snippet is trying to call rt_shootray(&ap) all the while ready to catch a failure of that call.... right?
13:34.58brlcadyep
13:35.23brlcadspecifically an abnormal failure that is raised by a jump
13:37.15d-loso, the C++ equivlient would be something like:
13:37.31d-lotry {
13:37.39d-loVUNITIZE(ap.a_ray.r_dir);
13:37.39d-lort_shootray(&ap);
13:37.39d-lo} catch (OmgWtfHappendToRtShootRayException e) {
13:37.39d-lo//stuff
13:37.39d-lo} finally {
13:37.41d-lo//more stuff
13:37.46d-lo}
13:37.48brlcadthat would only work if rt_shootray threw c++ exceptions
13:37.53d-lobah, that paste didn't work.
13:37.55brlcadit doesn't throw c++ exceptions
13:37.59brlcadrt_shootray can't throw a c++ exception because it's not a c++ library
13:38.02d-loright, i get that.
13:38.47brlcadso it's not an option .. :)
13:38.47d-lo"But if it did", how would the performance compare.....
13:38.52brlcadoh hell
13:38.57brlcadc++ exceptions are absurdly expensive
13:39.03brlcadthere have been lots of comparisons
13:39.30brlcadit doesn't really get much cheaper than a jump -- it literally amounts to a one-line jmp assembly instruction usually
13:39.39d-lokk
13:39.46brlcadc++ exceptions are one to two orders faster
13:40.03brlcadwhich is why studio has entire compilation modes with c++ exceptions on/off
13:40.04d-loon a side note, I need to learn asm :/
13:40.45brlcadruns
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15:50.21d-lo``Erik__: Heya!
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16:50.01``Erik__oi
16:51.14d-lohowdy stranger!
16:52.07d-lowhats new?
16:54.27CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33981 10/rt^3/trunk/ (69 files in 15 dirs): Removed typedefs from iBMECommon.h. Refactored all .h and .cxx files accordingly.
16:59.11CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33982 10/brlcad/trunk/ (499 files in 49 dirs): (log message trimmed)
16:59.12CIA-40BRL-CAD: Begin the process of adding NIST's STEP Class Libraries code to the BRL-CAD
16:59.12CIA-40BRL-CAD: tree. This first commit sets up the build logic for a src/other/step
16:59.12CIA-40BRL-CAD: subconfigure and imports a step tree which is the original NIST STEP 3.2
16:59.12CIA-40BRL-CAD: release, minus some temporary files and an old file in src/cldai that causes
16:59.14CIA-40BRL-CAD: conflicts on case insensitive filesystems. This is not expected to be a
16:59.16CIA-40BRL-CAD: buildable configuration - it is included to preserve the original state of the
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17:39.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33983 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/ (83 files in 25 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:39.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: Update STEP code to version from
17:39.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: http://www.statik.tu-cottbus.de/fileadmin/project_dth/scl/ This configuration
17:39.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: is closer to building on many platforms but will need special options to
17:39.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: configure not supplied by default. As this is not the final form the libraries
17:39.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: will take in the BRL-CAD tree no attempt is made to work with this build
17:39.28CIA-40BRL-CAD: structure. One more commit will be needed for a file renaming but after that
17:39.38d-logo go gadget STEP!
17:41.46CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33984 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/cldai/sdaiDaObject.cc: Add back in the properly named sdaiDaObject.cc
17:41.52starseekerOK, now the real fun
17:44.07starseekertakes what he has building so far and attemps to make something that won't bust distcheck
17:49.11starseekerdebates nuking and re-adding vs. gradually shifting to working...
17:49.52CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r33985 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/clone.c: updated clone command to re-number and work with the naming convention used in 'build_region' tclscript
17:53.42CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r33986 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/mirror.c: updated rt_mirror to fix bug 2679693, looks like the radius vectors were getting paired wrong in the mirror
18:01.34d-lo``Erik: You around?
18:07.29*** join/#brlcad ``Erik_ (i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
18:08.20d-loheh, ``Erik : you having connection problems or what? ;)
18:19.35``Erik_always
18:19.56d-lowhats new?
18:21.40CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33987 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/ (16 files): Start setting up standard README, COPYING, NEWS, etc. files
18:23.02d-lo``Erik: When could you sit down and talk to me about specifics of that Lisp web framework?  I have the itch to move forward with a web- base game ;)
18:24.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33988 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/ (arch_template/ bin/): Clear out arch_template and bin
18:24.53``Erik_*shrug* I should be in tomorrow, it's an odd thing though
18:25.55d-lo*chuckle* the ucw google search stil makes me laugh :)
18:29.13d-lomight use php though.  Which would you recommend for storage sql or flat file?
18:45.43CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33989 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/ (80 files in 7 dirs): More inching forward in STEP
18:47.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33990 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/misc/ (. Makefile.am Makefile.defs flawfinder libtool.m4): Add step/misc directory
18:54.40CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r33991 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/boost/ (996 files in 124 dirs): boost update particularly phoenix
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19:09.55CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33992 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/ (8 files in 8 dirs): Add some Makefile.am files to various directories
19:31.01brlcadhowdy madant
19:33.10brlcadnotes that distcheck is busted
19:33.22starseekerbrlcad:  I know, I know
19:33.25starseekerworking on it ;-)
19:33.57CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33993 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/ (123 files in 8 dirs): Merge in most of the changes made thus far. Probably won't build yet as new Makefile.am stuff is untested, but getting close
19:37.04brlcadfirst commit step should have been to just extra_dist it from src/other or conditionalize it, then work on cleaning up src/other/step/*, then deconditionalize it -- that way it stays working
19:37.27starseekerok, I'll put that in for now
19:37.55brlcaddo you know how to conditionalize it?
19:38.14starseekersort of
19:40.17CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33994 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/Makefile.am: EXTRA_DIST step for now
19:42.03starseekerthat get it for now?
19:44.35brlcaddon't know, busy reading what we're going to talk about in 15 min ;)
19:45.19brlcadfyi, though, I have some questions -- like what's up with the stuff deleted -- commit message doesn't say what/why
19:45.41brlcadwould have thought clcore was kinda important, for example
19:45.56brlcadunless it's just for the editor
19:47.04brlcadand it looks like build is still busted, you have subconfigure enabled in configure
19:47.10brlcadreturns to reading
19:49.32CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33995 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: Disable step subconfigure until it's working
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20:01.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33996 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/Makefile.am: Stuff the other dirs behind EXTRA_DIST for now, and bring them out later if they should be elsewhere.
20:03.58CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33997 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/TODO.BREP: add a missing important plane specialization of surfaces analogous to lines vs curves
20:37.55madanthi brlcad :) nothing much.. i need to sort out some crappy spirit and phoenix includes.. :) going to sleep now :)
21:30.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33998 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/TODO.BREP: Added few more queries.
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22:03.00CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33999 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/TODO.BREP: Breakout of raytracing dependencies
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090312

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090312

01:20.11starseekerbrlcad:  If it's r33993, that's just headers and changes to c files
01:33.54starseekerprepares to shift the headers back into their individual directories
01:43.32CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34000 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/ (21 files in 2 dirs): Put cldai headers back where they came from
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01:49.42CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34001 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/ (22 files in 2 dirs): Put cleditor headers back where they came from
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02:00.24CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34002 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/ (40 files in 2 dirs): Put clstepcore headers back where they came from
02:04.30CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34003 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/ (24 files in 2 dirs): Put clutils headers back where they came from
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02:12.30brlcadstarseeker: yeah, I see that now going back through my commit log mails .. maybe just more headers than I expected or all the 'c's in the names
02:14.55brlcadwhich is odd.. I swear my svn update said a slew of .cc/.c files
02:15.12brlcadonly reason it caught my attention
02:15.19brlcadoh well
02:15.30starseekerbrlcad:  Now I remember what the issue was - a lot of files assume the .h files ARE all in the same directory
02:15.41brlcadwonders why cruisecontrol still says distcheck is failing
02:15.42starseekeror at least included
02:15.58brlcadhow so?
02:16.14brlcad#include "somefilenotinthisdir.h"?
02:16.44brlcadthat'd mean their build system was setting the cppflags
02:16.49starseekermostly #include <somefile.h>
02:17.02brlcadyeah, same thing
02:17.06brlcadjust bad style
02:17.37starseekerthe build (originally) takes place in a directory called editorCore
02:17.51starseekerlooks like they copied a bunch of stuff somewhere to build it
02:17.52starseekerick
02:18.05starseekerwhat's the correct solution?
02:18.27starseekerat -I../src/clwhatever to the Makefile.am s?
02:18.32starseekerer s/at/add
02:19.01starseekeror I can change the references to "../clwhatever/file.h"
02:19.07brlcadeither to the Makefile.am's or to the configure.ac if it makes sense to be project-wide
02:19.25brlcadnah, I wouldn't recommend that -- ties to the dir structure, which could change
02:20.02brlcadonly "clwhatever/file.h" if you wanted to leave everything in include/ and have include/clwhatever
02:20.05starseekeris leary of doing it at the configure.ac level, so am files it is - just libwhatever_la_CXXFLAGS = -I...
02:20.38brlcadgiven how it looks like scl is organized, Makefile.am sounds like the right approach
02:20.42starseekerbrlcad: that might make sense once I figure out which headers are actually intended as "API" headers
02:21.04starseekertakes a stab at it
02:21.14brlcadcould 'maybe' have the lower-level C libs be "global" cppflags (ala include/) but wouldnt' matter much
02:21.27brlcadthat'd be useful
02:21.52brlcadif you can discern the difference, then the local includes should be identified via #include "./file.h"
02:22.12brlcadso you can distinguish private from public headers on use
02:22.32starseekernods
02:22.38brlcadand get rid of the <>'s
02:23.20brlcadthat should be for finding system headers or nominally for system-"installed" headers
02:24.00starseekerthat's what I thought
02:25.29CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34004 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/clstepcore/Makefile.am: Add includes needed for original header locations in clstepcore
02:26.00starseekerthinks commit 40000 should be a new modeler for BRL-CAD :-)
02:26.09brlcadheh
02:28.44CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34005 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/cleditor/Makefile.am: Add includes needed for original header locations in cleditor
02:31.54starseekerOK, that may do it
02:31.57CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34006 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/cldai/Makefile.am: Add includes needed for original header locations in cldai
02:41.18CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34007 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/exppp/Makefile.am: Whoops - fix noinst_HEADERS in exppp
02:50.02CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34008 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/clstepcore/Makefile.am: Add the clstepcore headers to Makefile.am as noinst for now.
03:21.54yukonbobhello, cadheads
03:25.30bjorkintoshah it's the 'hello, cadheads' bot.
03:34.07yukonbobah, it's the "ah it's the 'hello, cadheads' bot." bot
03:36.10bjorkintoshit is none other but i.
03:36.12bjorkintoshbows.
03:37.23brlcadwaves
03:37.51yukonbobevening bjorkintosh, brlcad
03:37.52bjorkintoshi'm now setting up a 4th machine to gui -d host:0 on :D
03:37.58brlcadheh
03:38.05yukonbobchecks in from Airport -- free wifi, yay!!1
03:38.13yukonbob*airport
03:38.14bjorkintoshit's teh AW3S0M3!
03:42.38yukonbobwhat's new, brlcad ?
03:43.25brlcaddocumented brep planning, new dev making awesomeness happen, new release
03:43.45brlcadcontentedly wanders off for a bit
03:44.55yukonbobchecks page for release details...
03:47.26yukonbobupdates svn
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08:56.19brlcadmorning d_rossberg
08:56.51d_rossbergmorning brlcad
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10:28.46d-lomornin all!
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11:29.34brlcadhowdy d-lo
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11:30.43d-lois reading up on the use of /dev/poll for IO multiplexing. Purty neat akshually.
11:34.03brlcadcreative, but very non-portable
11:34.11d-loyeah I know :/
11:34.14d-lostill neat :)
11:34.18d-logood brain food.
11:34.26brlcadnods
11:34.46d-lobesides, who needs windows support.  pffft.
11:34.48brlcadold sysvism
11:34.50d-lo=D
11:34.52brlcadnot just windows
11:34.58brlcadthat's not even portable across various unices
11:35.44brlcadit's a relatively new/old sysv construct
11:36.14brlcadold sysv systems are like old at&t unix (which I don't think had a /dev/poll, but was sysv nonetheless)
11:36.39brlcadlinux adopted some sysv, most distros probably include it
11:36.41brlcadand solaris
11:37.00brlcadbut no bsds, no mac, no hp, maybe aix, etc
11:37.29brlcadand flaky across various versions of those that do support it
11:38.21d-loheh, 'flaky'... is that a technical term? :)
11:38.33brlcadyep
11:38.56brlcadthere are lots of flakey interfaces when it comes to communication
11:41.16brlcadthat's what makes interfaces like libpkg that are well tested and robust to environments/platforms/events/conditions very useful
11:41.46d-loquestion on libpkg:  how well does it handle multiple connections?
11:42.42brlcadhandles them just fine
11:42.45brlcadit's point to point client-server based, so you do what you want with the descriptor
11:43.37brlcadit pushes most of the logic up into the application layer
11:43.43d-lopoorly worded question :)  I ment to ask:  Is there any utility in libpkg for managing multiple connections at once?
11:45.28brlcadwhat do you mean by managing them?  it doesn't really manage the connection, that's the app's job -- it just establishes a point to point and you do with that as you please
11:45.39brlcadfrom there you can build up pretty much any network infrastructure
11:46.04d-lokk, thats what I thought.  Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything obvious....
11:46.05brlcadbe that a token-ring, simple client-server, peer to peer shared, whatever
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11:48.36d-locool.  subject change:  I would like to revisit our discussion about how the .g data in the svn is going to be stored
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11:50.33d-loI cannot remember what we desided was the best amount of geometry to include in a single .g file:  A comb, A region, or a single Prim....
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11:52.23brlcadper object
11:53.00d-lookay, 1 .g contains a single db object.  And the actual file names were going to be the UUID ?
11:54.16brlcada single db object sans _GLOBAL even
11:54.53brlcadwhich might take a few minor back-end changes to make sure it doesn't stub them in
11:56.55brlcadwhat names become an effective mapping will be probably need to be heavily tied to a given backend storage manager that decides how to map a request to a storage mechanism
11:59.59d-lohrm, I had no idea that subversion REQUIRES Apache Portable Runtime... I was under the assumption that it could be built without it.
12:00.02d-lo:/
12:00.23brlcadusing uuid is maybe what it'll end up needing to be, but the danger there will be ending up needing to perform some O(n) lookup for every object name, table of content inconsistency problems, etc
12:00.51brlcadlots of codes use apr, sort of like our libbu
12:01.07d-locould you explain '0(n)' ...i don't understand that.
12:01.22brlcadbasically a linear lookup cost
12:01.33brlcadthe complexity of a given action
12:01.46brlcadideally you want O(1), constant cost
12:01.58d-loah, i c.
12:01.59d-lothanks
12:02.13brlcadi.e., if i ask for X, it takes you exactly "one step" to give me X
12:03.14brlcadif you have to even look down a list for X, that becomes O(n) linear time, or possibly O(logn) or O(nlogn) if you use some hierarchical container or hashes
12:03.55brlcadthe easiest first step is to probably just directly map a .g to a scoped context, i.e. a directory
12:04.25brlcadwith each object in the .g mapping to a file in that dir with the name being the name of that object from the .g
12:04.35brlcadthat would maintain O(1)
12:05.22d-loso.... one 'master' .g that knows the location of all other data?
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12:07.05brlcadnot exactly, it amounts to how many problems are you trying to solve next
12:07.30d-loyou've got me 99% confused now.
12:07.39brlcadfirst step was deliver a .g when someone asks for a .g, right?
12:08.04brlcadi'm saying next step would be to deliver a sub portion of a .g when someone asks for it
12:08.06d-locorrect
12:08.29d-loso then they would supply a filename and an objectname or would filename be assumed?
12:08.56brlcadi'd turn it into a path request right away since that's already implied
12:09.24brlcadfirst allowed was whatever://localhost/file.g
12:09.33brlcadnow you'd be allowing whatever://localhost/file.g/object
12:10.20d-lofeck, now i have to get and build openSSL for APR :/
12:10.26d-lookay I understand now.
12:11.03brlcadyou wouldn't even have to break up the .g files yet to make that work if you didn't want to, and have the storage manager do the object lookup with a folder filled with .g files
12:11.39brlcadthen next step might be to have a storage manager that turns the .g files into dirs and has a .g per object in each of the various .g subdirs
12:11.46d-loQuestion:  If no other data bout 'object' is known except the path to it, how will the GS get a handle on it without walking the tree? (aka, deviating from linear time?)
12:12.55brlcadthat last step I mentioned returns it to linear time
12:13.04brlcader sorry, constant time
12:13.19brlcadas path would map to file/data
12:15.22brlcadnote that an object-scoped request, like //localhost/file.g/path/to/object is still constant -- it just means load three objects (path, object, and to) in the file.g context
12:16.13brlcadthat'd be interesting actually
12:17.42brlcadbroken out per file like that into dirs, it could conceivably outperform current single-file accessat least the asymptotic complexity is less on paper
12:18.36brlcadjust bigger constants (multiple file and operating system overhead)
12:19.12d-loso are you saying have less .g files that are 'higher' in the heirarchy or more .g files 'lower' in the heirarchy?  *confused*
12:20.21starseekerd-lo:  heck with subversion, build on top of git ;-)
12:20.22brlcadthat turning a dir filled with .g's into a dir of dirs filled with per-object-g's could conceivably outperform
12:20.34brlcadgit doesn't have libs
12:20.41brlcadand isn't portable
12:20.48starseekerreflects that a power outage is a great way to interrupt a hacking session
12:21.56d-loOkay, so, instead of a single dir with a bajillion .g's in it, organize it into a heirarchy of dirs with the .g's sitting at the 'bottom' of the heirarchy?
12:22.09starseekerbrlcad:  very true
12:22.13starseekerblegh
12:22.42starseekerchecks on openssl's license - thought it was weird
12:23.40d-lojust read it... don't think it will be a problem.
12:24.11starseekeryeah, looks OK
12:24.18starseekerchecks APR
12:24.59d-lobesides, svn requires libserf which requires openSSL.... so, if anything in this stupid req tree precludes us from using it, we might have a problem :/
12:25.13brlcadd-lo: I wouldn't start with a hierarchy of dirs, just a single scope
12:25.58starseekerd-lo:  Right.  I just thought we should check since my original understanding was that the long term goal is to have a geometry server in every install of BRL-CAD
12:26.38brlcadhaving a hierarchy adds additional complexity not yet needed -- not clear that's what we'd want to end up with down the road
12:27.08brlcadmaybe it is, but hard to say until that feature is being addressed because it gets nasty when things are no longer at a fixed depth in the hierarchy
12:27.12starseekerhmm - APR is Apache License 2.0
12:28.07brlcadapache license is fine
12:28.23brlcadit's basically a more verbose bsd license
12:28.33d-loLGPL = Library General Public License?
12:28.51starseekerAh.  Is this the one that was GPL incompatible because of the patent thing?
12:28.55brlcad~lgpl
12:28.56ibothmm... lgpl is the Lesser General Public License, see http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.txt or http://www.fsf.org/licenses/lgpl.txt
12:29.15brlcadused to be library, but fsf changed it to be lesser to try to get more folks to use gpl
12:29.47d-loah, okay.  Then the license for 'neon' is okay.
12:30.22brlcadis that what they use?
12:30.51brlcadwhen I surveyed them a couple years ago, everything in svn and needed by svn was fine license-wise
12:31.40d-loyeah, neon = Library GPL
12:32.20brlcadnote that's just what they call it :)
12:32.31brlcadlots of folks were pissed by fsf trying that
12:32.33d-lowell, I am going to double check since the dependancy chain is getting bigger than I expected :/
12:32.45CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34009 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/conf/ (. MAJOR MINOR PATCH): Ahem - as I was trying to do before the power went out, add in conf so step configure has some version numbers to work with.
12:33.03brlcadit's just manipulative, trying to coerce based on the name implications
12:33.17starseekerFSF is famous for being manipulative
12:33.29d-loright :)  I learned quickly to not trust the names, but, rather, read the fine print.
12:33.32starseekerto be fair, they are open about having a political agenda to push
12:33.52brlcadd-lo: question earlier, perhaps lost during the irc reconnect -- curious why you asked whether pkg managed connections?
12:34.09starseekerstill steers clear of the GNU Free Documentation License - that was a real let-down
12:34.11d-loI will need someone to sit down and show me more about the build system, aka subbuilds and the NODIST stuff.
12:35.06d-lobrlcad: I asked that because i couldn't remember if libpkg did the managing or not.  Wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something important and running off to re-invent the wheel.
12:38.44brlcadd-lo: brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv.c is an example how the framebuffer server handles multiple requests
12:38.49brlcadjust keeps the clients in an array
12:38.54brlcadsimple easy to grok
12:39.42brlcadsupport interleaved requests and updates
12:39.42brlcadjust a few lines of code
12:40.51brlcadfollow the "clients" keyword and it should be relatively obviously
12:45.21d-lopretty sexy.
12:46.11CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34010 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Add in some more headers to scl Makefile.ams
12:48.14brlcadstarseeker: when you get the chance, maybe try a distcheck on a fresh checkout -- still getting failure notices since the addition
12:49.25brlcadand yeah, I know -- I don't know why either, should be okay .. but it's not at least accordingly to cruisecontrol
12:49.36brlcadand can't get to log just yet
12:54.30brlcadhah, cute: http://www.compasslearningodyssey.com/sample_act/math3_4/MA3CA05a-package_preloader.swf
12:54.44brlcadcould do something similar for the brl-cad primitives!
12:55.29starseekerbrlcad:  OK, will do
13:01.39CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34011 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Oh, yeah - those include links shouldn't assume in-source build
13:02.17starseekerstarts distcheck running and starts prepping for the road...
13:06.03``Erik_*readreadread*
13:06.39d-loeh?
13:07.36brlcadmeans he's reading the backlog
13:08.37d-loguess I am not as fluent in l33tsp34k as I thought :/
13:10.30``Erik_z0mfglolf34d|ngl0gz0rz
13:10.53``Erik_sorry, fit of geek tourettes there O:-)
13:10.54brlcadlolomfgponies!
13:11.08``Erik_l0llerk0pt0r
13:11.59``Erik_um, direct link to a file doesn't guarantee O(1), some fs's are not constant in resolving the file name to the initial inode
13:12.07d-lol0ll3rsk8t3s
13:12.30brlcad``Erik_: O(1) to the app's logic, that's all we control
13:12.35``Erik_(they tend to be damn fast, but I had a directory with ~17k files and getting the file handle took several seconds)
13:13.09brlcadjust not from a global view, sure
13:13.43d-loquestion:  Does a linker error of: lib/libz.a(crc32.o): relocation R_X86_64_32 against `a local symbol' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
13:13.53d-lotell me that its a 32 bit lib?
13:13.55``Erik_*shrug* I argue that it's important to understand and consider the limits of the OS and hw, too, but *shrug* :)
13:14.30brlcadd-lo: not necessarily
13:14.50brlcad``Erik_: uhm, I'd generally think that goes without saying?
13:14.51``Erik_-fPIC instructs it to make position independant code, required for a shared object
13:15.26brlcadmostly because it ends up with a lot of navel gazing and speculative jabber that isn't productive
13:16.08``Erik_heh, 'cept I've seen it come back to bite projects that worry about squeezing performance
13:16.19brlcadso?
13:16.32brlcad"bad things can happen"
13:16.39brlcadi don't find that surprising
13:16.53d-lo-fPIC is a compiler flag?
13:16.57brlcadyes
13:17.06d-lokk danke
13:17.31brlcadyou shouldn't have to add it on your code, though -- libtool handles that
13:17.42``Erik_*shrug* just admitting that is taking it into consideration, knowing how to cope with it is understanding those limits, otherwise you have stupid code and people blaming the wrong things
13:17.58d-lohrm, well I am following the install directions to the letter and its giving me that error
13:18.35brlcad``Erik_: this is exactly the kind of speculative jabber that I mean, though -- it's not solving an actual problem
13:18.37``Erik_all those #include "../something" lines in teh step stuff, hope that doesn't mess up too much
13:19.13brlcadif we implemented ours via a given O(1) approach, and found an OS problem, that would be an actual then that could be looked into
13:19.29``Erik_<-- just trying to get his brain back into gear :)
13:22.13d-loand stay out!
13:22.19d-lo=D
13:23.08``Erikheh
13:41.57starseekerforgot how long a distcheck takes on this machine :/
13:44.46brlcaddistcheck -j# will work
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13:50.21starseekeronly has 2 cpus and they both seem to be working :-(
13:50.47starseekerwill probably upgrade in a year or two...
13:50.54starseekertis getting slow
13:51.20brlcadmy trusty old box takes a couple hours to distcheck now
13:51.29brlcadused to be about an hour before opennurbs :)
13:52.43starseekerheh
13:53.06starseekeryeah, the two sure ways to crush my box into performance hell are compiling KDE and compiling Openoffice
13:53.57starseekerblinks
13:54.10starseekerdistcheck just passed on my machine:  brlcad-7.14.5 archives ready for distribution
13:59.04starseekerwill try again when he gets in
14:05.34brlcadstarseeker: huh
14:06.24brlcadstarseeker: then maybe it's something wrong with the cruisecontrol script that needs to get fixed
14:07.11brlcadmaybe just needs another configure.ac update or something to make it reautogen
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14:26.29d-loI just priced a Quad 3GHz AMD with 4GB 1033MHz ram on a MB with onboard nVidia 9600 and 8 channel audio machine (no case) for about $350 if you DIY
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14:42.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34012 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/clone.c tclscripts/mged/help.tcl): Added 'clone' to mged_help_data table and added print_usage() when to few args
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15:26.13madanthates namespaces
15:26.43namespaceshates madant.
15:26.49madant:P
15:26.53d-lo=D
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16:05.06CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34013 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/boost/ (8 files in 4 dirs): another boost update: spirit and phoenix related
16:10.17CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34014 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (7 files):
16:10.17CIA-40BRL-CAD: modifications for the usage of boost::spirit namespace instead of
16:10.17CIA-40BRL-CAD: boost::spirit::classic, generic includes added to be replaced with the specific
16:10.19CIA-40BRL-CAD: header files for the pertinent spirit and phoenix functions; also code syntax
16:10.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: corrections in pcMathGrammar, pcMathLF and pcMathVM
16:35.07CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34015 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/m4/prefix.m4: Whoops - put the right prefix.m4 back
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17:05.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34016 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/ (11 files in 5 dirs): More step build tweaks.
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17:16.12CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34017 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/ (configure.ac include/Makefile.am include/conf/Makefile.am): Few more fixes for step build system
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17:37.43CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34018 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/include/conf/Makefile.am: One more misc Makefile.am cleanup
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17:42.17CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34019 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/ (8 files in 3 dirs): Clean up old config stuff in step
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18:05.04*** join/#brlcad rahul_cool (i=3b5bc963@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d7cc2a6d35286a1e)
18:05.32rahul_coolhiiiii all
18:06.17rahul_cooli wanna take part in gsoc 2009 on the project "CSG ray-trace optimizations"....
18:06.25rahul_coolcan any one help me......
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18:13.44brlcadrahul_cool: if you have to ask for help, then maybe not -- that's not an easy task :)
18:14.04brlcadalso, note that the suggested list for 2009 hasn't been uploaded yet
18:16.21brlcadif you have a more specific question, go ahead an ask
18:21.32starseeker``Erik:  Yeah, you called it
18:22.34starseekerhmm...
18:22.38starseekeractua..y...
18:43.08starseekergrr the express.h include references most of the other express.h files
18:43.14starseekerer express . files
18:43.24starseekerexpress .h files come on bz
18:43.38starseekerthis thing is so interrelated it's amazing
18:47.30brlcadit's common to have an interface file like that referencing other header files
18:48.02brlcadthat's the same for the opennurbs headers if you recall, started with opennurbs.h, that just basically includes every other non-private api header
18:48.12starseekerright
18:48.32starseekernow will move a bunch of headers AGAIN to include, but this time in express, exppp, etc directories
18:48.40brlcadkinda what I'd like to do with bu/bn/rt too, one bu.h header that isn't 10k lines long
18:48.59brlcadinstead breaks up the api into logical sections and bu.h just includes those various section headers
18:49.12starseekerdo you want express.h as a "toplevel" including all the other "express/*.h" headers?
18:49.20brlcadhow'd they do it?
18:49.41starseeker<snort> they stuffed all of them in express with the source files
18:49.48brlcadsometimes there's a good reason to not include *.h (especially if some are private, but even for non-private)
18:50.13starseekerOh, I'm only going to move the ones either needed by express.h or explicitly included by (e.g.) fedex_plus
18:50.45brlcadah, for the ones that you already determine are public
18:50.49starseekerright
18:51.00starseekeronly putting them in include or include/express if forced to
18:51.01brlcadthen yeah, could just include include/express/*.h
18:51.11brlcadthough that might be redundant
18:51.20brlcadif it's hierarchical and not just two-level
18:51.42starseekerright now its flat
18:52.34starseekerI was thinking to stick all of 'em that are needed in include/express for now, change the includes to "express/file.h", and sort it out later if we want more structure
18:55.07brlcadwhy bother changing the includes?
18:55.14brlcadjust add include/express to the cppflags
18:55.39starseekerYeah, I guess that will work
18:55.54starseekerdoesn't like trusting flags, but supposes he should
19:12.02starseekerbrlcad:  step has a memory.h and so does /usr/include - which one wins if I inclulde include/express ?
19:17.46brlcadas "memory.h" it should select a -I directed path first before default system include dirs
19:18.52brlcadas <memory.h> it could be unreliable -- forget gcc's rules on that
19:19.09brlcadthink it still means try system first
19:19.18starseekerk
19:36.47starseekergah - the yylineno issue is still there
19:37.12starseekerconsiders tearing hair out
19:38.32starseekerbison < 2 doesn't create it automatically, bison > 2 does
19:38.49starseekercan't find a way to conditionally create it (so far)
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19:40.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34020 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/ (60 files in 7 dirs): OK, one more time with the step include files.
19:43.09starseekerdecides against tearing hair out and opts for researching
19:45.57d-lothe girls love bald.....
19:47.37starseekermine doesn't
19:51.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34021 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/express/Makefile.am: OK, looks like a flag may be needed for flex
19:51.57starseekerif that works, I can undo the scary hack and slash renaming I did in express
20:07.39``Erikcomcast is awesome!
20:49.04PrezKennedyJRsnap out of it man!
21:02.30starseekerbrlcad:  Ah, nuts.  when running distcheck it claims the step directory is already configured
21:04.54starseekermust have gotten too cute with the configure.ac
21:11.19brlcadreally should probably start with enigma's more simple configure.ac :)
21:11.37brlcadours has all sorts of automatic caching and various overrides
21:11.58brlcadsome that don't work without previous tests
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21:22.51CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34022 10/brlcad/tags/rel-7-14-4/src/other/tk/unix/Makefile.in: temp remove to replace with SHLIB_SUFFIX patched version
21:23.18CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34023 10/brlcad/tags/rel-7-14-4/src/other/tk/unix/Makefile.in: apply the SHLIB_SUFFIX fix that lets it make the symlink/copy for m3 folks
21:48.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34024 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: dwayne reports that rtwizard won't display line drawings for objects that are inside other objects, like a vehicle with crew inside. select vehicle as ghost, crew as solid, and crew as line.
22:00.55CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34025 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: make a nop mod to hopefully unstick cruisecontrol failures
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22:15.01brlcad=== configuring in src/other/step (/Volumes/wsbh/CI/projects/brlcad-trunk/work/src/other/step)
22:15.05brlcadconfigure: running /bin/sh ./configure '--prefix=/usr/brlcad'  '--enable-symbols' --cache-file=../../../config.cache.darwin9.6.0.pawl.arl.army.mil --srcdir=.
22:15.08brlcadconfiguring SCL 3.1.0
22:15.10brlcadNo architecture info specified... specify the architecture directory using --with-arch=specify-arch-directory-here
22:15.14brlcadconfigure: error: ./configure failed for src/other/step
22:16.17brlcadthat's what it's presently erroring out on even after that last poke (and it's disabled, so something is apparently wrong)
22:16.30brlcad(with the cruisecontrol config)
22:16.46brlcadprobably just need to re-enable it and see if it'll work
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22:37.56``Erikoh, starseeker, check out "brlman rtarea", i'ts cool
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090313

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090313

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00:56.00``Erikhuh, weird, hulu changed their buffer display, now it almost looks like cell phone bars
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01:42.34starseeker``Erik:  yeah, awf isn't up to the new man output
01:42.58starseekerneed to make brlman a wrapper around man
01:45.48starseekerbrlcad:  the --with-arch arg requirement is from the original configure script in the NIST distribution
01:45.55starseekerit shouldn't be present any more
01:46.22starseekeralso, the new configure scripts have 3.2.0 as the version
01:50.39starseekerI would suggest clearing out the src/other/step subdirectory and checking it out clean, if that's possible
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02:35.18brlcadsettles down with the best wings in baltimore
02:35.23brlcad(thusfar)
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03:17.07starseekerscowls at configure.ac... why are you breaking distcheck?
03:18.18starseekerscripts a distcheck build to get full logging and sleeps on it
03:19.26starseekerbrlcad:  Would a configure.in file being checked in originally in src/other/step cause problems with subsequent configure.ac builds, even if removed from the repository?
03:19.41starseeker'cause somehow it's getting the old build system
04:03.18brlcadstarseeker: I don't know, it could be some generated file like aclocal.m4 or acinclude.m4
04:03.44brlcadcould be somehow specific to the checkout it's working with, hard to say without looking at the filesystem
04:17.07starseekerUhhhh.  distcheck failed for me without involving step afaict:  make[3]: *** No rule to make target `unix/config.status', needed by `distdir'.  Stop.
04:18.40starseekerthat was at src/other/tcl
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04:37.20``Erikso either add tcl/unix/config.status to the repo or delete it form the Maekfile.am
04:42.56starseekerbut when/why did it change?
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10:47.28brlcadstarseeker: something else is wrong
10:47.45brlcadthere should and needs to be a config.status (and it doesn't belong in the repo, it's generated by configure)
10:49.08bjorkintoshgoodness man, do you sleep?
10:49.13brlcaddon't know why it'd be listed in tcl/tk's Makefile.am EXTRA_DIST, though, that could be the problem
10:51.05brlcadbjorkintosh: I try not to
10:51.24bjorkintoshmakes sense.
10:51.24brlcadit's a nasty disease
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14:15.58madantWILL test the MathVM today :P
14:19.00brlcad:)
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15:10.13brlcadhas the initial application in
16:04.57dreeves__I don't know if it is appropriate place for me to ask this but is there a document with a little more detail about the approach if the new gui and how it will tie in to the geometry service or is this currently in the works.  If so is it possible to get privy to those discussions/work?
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16:58.03brlcaddreeves__: there are some other docs but much of it is very much a work in progress
16:58.30brlcadthe discussions are intentionally supposed to be completely open so you're more than welcome to join in
16:58.59brlcadsome of them happen here on irc, some on the channel, and alas some in person for the few that can
16:59.07brlcader, mailing list too
16:59.34brlcadthere are a few docs and details on the wiki, and feel free to ask any questions here or on the devel mailing list
17:13.26madant:) seems like we are going to have a good number of applications this summer
17:54.38brlcadany devs present?  starseeker?
18:08.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34026 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcMathVM.cpp pcMathVM.h): adding BranchNode definition and methods to pcMathVM
18:10.48``ErikO.o
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18:14.06starseekerhere
18:14.14starseekerwhat's up?
18:15.03starseekerscowls at configure.ac - why are you haulting when step has a config.status file but not haulting when enigma has a config.status file
18:15.44starseekeroh, I see - it's in the tarball
18:15.46starseekerhmm
18:16.21brlcadhttp://socghop.appspot.com <-- log in, edit profile, create a link_id
18:16.44brlcadanyone interested in mentoring gsoc this year if we're accepted needs to do that
18:18.30starseekerbrlcad:  you just use brlcad for your link_id?
18:20.01brlcadyep
18:20.31starseekerOK, I'm in
18:21.18starseekerdo I need to associate myself with brlcad somehow?
18:21.26brlcadnope
18:21.34starseekerk
18:21.36brlcadjust tell me your id
18:21.42``Erikerikg
18:21.42starseekerlink_id?
18:23.56``Erikheh 'do you know what "irony" is?' 'is it like "stony" or "woody" but a lot better to make swords out of?'
18:24.25starseekerwell, irony CAN cut...
18:25.36starseekerbrlcad:  would it be OK to create a wiki page on brlcad with pdf versions of some of the NIST publications on the step libs?  so far total size would < 5 megs total for the papers
18:27.02brlcadstarseeker: dont' see why not
18:27.23starseekercool - thanks.  That way if the site goes byebye we still have the docs too :-)
18:27.56``Erikcould just shove it in your public_html/ as a "personal page", as well
18:28.25starseekeroh, sure.  But this way anyone wanting to do something with BRL-CAD + STEP will find them
18:28.39starseekermy personal site is just a grab bag ATM
18:29.13brlcadthere needs to be a brlcad.org/wiki/STEP page, maybe also a /wiki/STEP/NIST to talk about that portion
18:33.52CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34027 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/Makefile.am: Oops, step's configure.ac should be in the DISTCLEANFILES list.
18:35.50brlcadanything received during checkout shouldn't be in distcleanfiles...
18:37.00starseekeroh, really?  whoops - I guess enigma must generate it
18:37.35CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34028 10/rtcmp/trunk/ (rt/rt.c rtcmp.h tri.c): remove references to brlcad/machine.h. casting in ntohd/htond to quell warnings.
18:39.43starseekerhmm, no enigma's configure.ac is checked in...
18:42.36dreeves__brlcad are there any docs other than the 3 uml diagrams ?
18:43.34dreeves__I have searched the wiki and didn't locate anything else
18:45.13brlcadstarseeker: enigma lists *configure* in distcleanfiles, not configure.ac
18:45.18brlcadyou said configure.ac
18:45.18starseekerah
18:45.22starseekerwhooops
18:45.52brlcaddreeves__: yes there are, but did you have a particular question -- glad to just explain things  ;)
18:47.24starseekersmacks self upside the head
18:47.41CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34029 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/Makefile.am: Add configure to DISTCLEANFILES. Previous commit message was incorrected - added configure.ac to EXTRA_DIST files, NOT DISTCLEANFILES.
18:48.14dreeves__I guess I'm just toying with the idea of maybe getting involved in maybe helping out with that....  Was really look to see if you had mockups of what the new gui might look like with some possible flows...Also was interested in how the gui would interact with the service i.e. the gui knowing which parameters were editable or are you all thinking that would be just built into the gui itself
18:49.38dreeves__I could probably go on and on but I thought I would get educated with what the team had done first before I just started hammering everyone with a million questions
18:49.45brlcaddreeves__: ah, then should definitely also take a look at this:
18:50.01brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/design/
18:50.10dreeves__cool
18:50.11dreeves__thanks
18:50.26brlcadthe gui link in particular includes an extensive gui interaction mock-up
18:51.33brlcadit was intentionally made application agnostic and doesn't show CAD interface aspects yet, but the same basic ideas of localized modelessness, universal command access, pervasive drag and drop, context panels, etc
18:54.17dreeves__Just so I'm clear this is intended to be an mged replacement correct?
18:59.09brlcadlong term, yes
18:59.34dreeves__umm  what would it be in the short term?
18:59.50dreeves__or are you just saying it would take a while to replace mged?
19:00.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34030 10/rtcmp/trunk/rt/rt.c: comments to help understand interface to librt
19:00.56CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34031 10/rtcmp/trunk/ (adrt/adrt.c configure.ac): updates to handle updated tie interface
19:00.57brlcaddreeves__: the latter
19:01.03madantdreeves__ : it would take a while
19:01.06madantoops :D
19:01.06dreeves__ah ok
19:01.46brlcaddreeves__: so if you're interested, here's the big picture as I see it
19:02.04dreeves__ok?
19:02.05CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Starseeker 07http://brlcad.org * r1232 10/wiki/STEP: Need to make a step wiki page - just rough out some categories for now - flesh out later
19:02.48brlcadmged's great in many ways, *lots* of functionality, powerful interface, it's been doing what it's doing forever but it's incredibly difficult to learn and takes a long time to master
19:03.19brlcadthat said, it really is *filled* with functionality, hundreds of staff-years of effort that would take even a big team many years to replicate
19:03.27brlcadso we really can't afford to do that
19:03.56brlcadon top of that, there is a ton of other functionality in brl-cad that many people don't know about or don't know how to use (the other 399 applications)
19:04.30brlcadbasically, our usability needs to improve in a major way
19:04.48brlcadbut not such that we just lose everything that has been invested, therein enters LIBGED
19:05.25brlcadlibged is a refactoring project that has been going on for almost a year now to take most of the best aspects of mged out of mged, and putting that logic into a library so it can be more readily reused
19:05.55brlcadlibged by itself, though, obviously won't make usability any better, for that we need a better gui
19:06.37brlcadon that front enters a refactoring prototype that was started several years ago -- archer; basically mged's gui rewritten but still using mged's geometry management and command functionality under the hood
19:06.48brlcadalso enter last year's gsoc project to start a completely new gui interface
19:07.38brlcadwhat remains is the infrastructure to tie the gui to the backend while also pulling in "the rest" of brl-cad under that same interface
19:08.08brlcadthat is where the geometry service and geometry engine are at, they tie the front to the back
19:09.31brlcadthe intent of the geometry engine is to modularize the geometry management API, provide better type encapsulation and geometry management features similar to other CAD kernels like ACIS or Granite
19:10.21brlcadthe geometry engine basically wraps libbu, libbn, librt, libwdb, and the new libged into a clean API
19:10.31dreeves__Yeah I grabbed the latest rt^3 package and got it to compile but seems like all the apps are just outputting timing type of things I'm sure I'm missing something but I didn't see any guis
19:11.40brlcaddreeves__: the rt^3 module hasn't really been cleaned up and unified yet, so you're sort of seeing a little of the gui work that happened during gsoc, some of the GE work, and a lot of the GS work
19:12.14brlcadand the three don't yet play with each other much given they're all being developed in parallel
19:12.23dreeves__oh ok that's fine I just wanted to see what had been done so far
19:12.30brlcad(as they really are three independent projects)
19:12.37dreeves__ok
19:13.31dreeves__I just flipped through some of the gui design I take it that is more of a concept type thing, survey of different style of guis if you will
19:13.37brlcadso project-wise related to improving the interface, there's BREP support, LIBGED refactoring, GE design, GS implementation, and the GUI itself
19:14.02brlcaddreeves__: it's not a survey, it's an actual interaction prototype
19:14.28dreeves__oh I must doing something wrong I will go back and look at it again
19:14.40brlcadwhat's missing is how that would actually look and act with a 3D context, geometry actions, object palettes, etc
19:14.56brlcadthis: http://brlcad.org/design/gui/ioe_proto_final.mov
19:15.04dreeves__ok
19:15.33brlcadit is a survey of different *interactions* you might encounter in the gui, just not multiple guis
19:16.33brlcadthe important aspect is how tasks are managed, how contexts are managed, command interaction, how the overall menu works, the clipboard, etc
19:17.09madantdreeves__: are u already an open source contributor ?
19:17.57dreeves__no
19:18.27brlcadyour name is very familiar
19:18.33dreeves__why am I stepping on toes and just don't know it
19:18.43dreeves__yes I use to work at brl about 20 years ok
19:18.44dreeves__ago
19:18.55brlcadyes, that just clicked with me
19:18.56brlcadgsi
19:19.01madant:)
19:19.03dreeves__yep
19:20.10brlcadthat's very interesting, for many reasons.. :)
19:20.24brlcadyou still coding these days?
19:20.25dreeves__:)
19:20.32dreeves__oh yeah very much so
19:20.52dreeves__just not open source
19:20.56brlcadnods
19:21.08brlcadsomething you maybe haven't seen: http://brlcad.org/BRL-CAD_Priorities.png
19:21.20madant:) 20+ years omg .thats like awesome experience :)
19:21.22dreeves__nope
19:21.41dreeves__Yeah I loved working on brlcad
19:22.57madantyou must have worked with Mike et al. ? :)
19:23.10dreeves__I meet him a few times
19:23.42brlcaddreeves__: I take it you stay in touch with Harry, maybe some of the other guys still out at apg?
19:24.14*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@77-58-245-131.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:24.25dreeves__I remember having a conversion with him when he was working NMG that was a very interesting discussion
19:24.57brlcadyou'll hear much of the same still going on :)
19:25.13dreeves__No Harry and I sort of went our own ways...
19:25.29dreeves__I miss Harry will have to get that way to see him soon
19:25.29brlcadthe BREP effort under way is our #1 priority in many ways
19:25.39brlcadah, shame
19:26.04brlcadhe's actually one of the few I don't think I've had the pleasure of meeting personally yet
19:26.06dreeves__Are you nugging me toward that?
19:26.19dreeves__Have you an I meet?
19:26.45brlcaddon't think so unless you've been over to see the CAD team
19:27.03dreeves__Do you know if Ed, Paul and Keith are still out there?
19:27.06brlcad(in the last 10 years or so)
19:27.10dreeves__no
19:27.24dreeves__i haven't unfortunately
19:27.25brlcaded is, he's current acting team lead
19:27.38dreeves__realllllly....
19:27.40dreeves__:)
19:27.50brlcadpaul has been promoted into managerial oblivion, no longer does anything productive
19:28.02dreeves__I really liked working with him
19:28.08brlcader, you mean deitz or tanenbaum?
19:28.21brlcadwell, same holds for both I suppose :)
19:28.23dreeves__deitz
19:28.44brlcadhe's leads one of the directorates
19:29.06dreeves__I probably shouldn't refer to him has Paul I suppose I don't mean any disrespect
19:29.21brlcadnah, he's still paul
19:29.28brlcadhttp://www.linkedin.com/pub/4/a19/206
19:30.09dreeves__Yeah I was sure he was but I didn't want anyone on here to get the wrong idea
19:30.16brlcadkeith retired and came back as a contractor, doesn't write code though -- still does some modeling
19:30.50dreeves__Yeah that is mostly what he before he is awesome at the modeling though
19:32.28brlcaddwayne kregel is one of the best brl-cad modelers out there now, he's helped inspire a lot of my ideas for things we need to work on
19:32.47dreeves__So funny I went to HS with him
19:32.48brlcadvictor is back and modeling again
19:32.53dreeves__aberdeen
19:33.08brlcadyeah, I think he told me that one
19:33.12brlcad*once
19:33.22brlcadbig D
19:33.29brlcadawesome guy
19:33.42dreeves__Yes he is a very tall guy
19:33.55dreeves__small world though
19:34.28dreeves__brlcad what is your email?
19:35.53dreeves__BTW I will check out the priorities maybe I will redirect my energy a little
19:36.19brlcadnote that those are open source priorities
19:36.26brlcadvery close to but not exactly the same as ARL priorities
19:37.18brlcadARL funds the cad team in more specific ways obviously to work on enhancements
19:38.06brlcadthinks who else gsiwise is still around
19:38.21brlcadadam
19:41.42dreeves__adam came on after I left
19:42.12brlcadah
19:43.40brlcadthere's another guy but I can't remember his name
19:46.12brlcadprobably a few names you recognize: http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS
19:46.37dreeves__so does your cad team basically work at what use to be brl?
19:46.53dreeves__I thought Lee Butler lead the cad team did he leave?
19:47.05brlcadhe left
19:47.23dreeves__Yeah I wend through that list the other night know quite a few people on it
19:48.21brlcadLee is still around, but he went to work on his phd for a year then came back to lead the modeling team and just recently moved onto another team
19:48.58dreeves__oh ok
19:49.00brlcadstill at the same place, maybe even the same building
19:49.17dreeves__I will have to send ed and email
19:49.34brlcadhe knows :)
19:49.40dreeves__ok
19:49.44dreeves__:)
19:49.50dreeves__What does he think?
19:53.59brlcadhe thinks he's ready to retire :)
19:54.23dreeves__LOL!! :)
19:55.40dreeves__So what's up with the work on Java?
19:56.27brlcadwonders if dreeves__ notices that he has other messages.. :)
19:56.47brlcadjohn anderson started that just playing around a couple years ago
19:56.54brlcads/couple/many/
19:57.11brlcadgot a simple ray query working, and it sat for a while
19:57.39brlcadthen another big java project started at arl, and it revived some attention on that project
19:57.44dreeves__Just noticed sorry
20:47.13*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
20:49.13ysselivedreeves__: btw, more you may not have seen -- screenie of the "Archer" prototype interface I mentioned -- http://brlcad.org/tmp/archer.png
20:49.26ysseliveArcher is the test bed for most of the LIBGED refactoring
20:49.59ysseliveand will likely merge with MGED at some point (replacing mged's gui) as an intermediate step until the other new GUI is ready
20:56.21MrStayPuftdreeves__: another one of interest: http://brlcad.org/tmp/brepstep.jpg
21:05.18*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
21:06.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34032 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/ (Makefile.am autogen.sh): Don't need autogen.sh in this directory while step is acting as a part of brlcad
21:12.40brlcadgets the munchies
21:17.59``Erikwonders if that was staypuft or staypuffed O.o
21:18.10starseekerbrlcad:  config.status is in both EXTRA_DIST and DISTCLEANFILES in the tcl Makefile.am - is that intentional?
21:18.57brlcadit's mr stay puft
21:19.00brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stay_Puft_Marshmallow_Man
21:19.16brlcadstarseeker: probably not
21:19.38``Eriksomeone has stayed up too late to catch the lame joke :D
21:19.48brlcadnot that they have much to do with each other .. being a distcleanfile doesn't mean it'll be included in the dist
21:19.56starseekerright
21:20.06starseekerthe failure on distcheck has something to do with it though
21:20.09``Erik$16k for a windows machine, ow
21:20.23brlcad``Erik: or I didn't stay up late enough?  puffing glue?
21:20.38brlcadpuffing a joint?
21:20.43``Erikthe latter, yeah
21:20.46brlcadah
21:20.49brlcadthen I caught it
21:20.54brlcadjust wasn't funny :)
21:21.07``Erik<-- said it was lame,  not funny :D
21:21.11brlcadhehe
21:21.32``Erikhas mysql and apache22 running on the new machine, btw
21:22.26starseekerbrlcad:  Any prior knowledge of the stepmod project on sourceforge?
21:24.17starseekerHmm, cool, NIST made some code for controlling a machining center using the STEP-NC spec
21:24.28brlcadstarseeker: yeah, prior guilty knowledge, yes
21:24.33starseekerheh
21:24.42starseekeranything useful there?
21:26.57brlcadprobably, but it was heavily biased towards lifecycle aspects of step
21:27.12brlcadMUCH of step has little/nothing to do with geometry
21:27.41brlcadhinted at by geometry starting at application protocol two *hundred* and three ..
21:28.05CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34033 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcMathGrammar.h: Complete description of the Expression Grammar : Stage 1/4
21:28.11brlcad~madant++
21:28.59starseekerhmm - looks like we're not the only ones playing around with NIST SCL:  http://code.google.com/p/fbics/
21:29.02brlcadstarseeker: one interesting piece they do is ap28 though .. that didn't exist until recently
21:29.07madanthuh
21:29.21starseekerah, nuts - he's going GPLv3
21:29.25brlcad(AP28 is STEP-XML)
21:29.30starseekerah, cool :-)
21:29.53brlcadproblem there, though, being no CAD software dumps that out that I'm aware of yet
21:30.01brlcadso not a high priority
21:30.07starseekertrue.
21:30.24brlcadstill have to deal with ap21 files
21:30.27starseekerponders using it as a good BRL-CAD archival output format, but that's also low priority...
21:32.21brlcadlooks like it's a new project
21:32.30brlcadthere is no code to it other than scl
21:32.42brlcadso you could check it out and see what mods he's made
21:33.05starseekermaybe, but since it's public domain code he's allowed to make his modes GPLv3
21:33.10brlcadwow, very new .. last commit was just yesterday
21:33.20brlcadand that was r2
21:33.29starseekercould ask him, I suppose
21:33.40brlcadi mean he's done nothing thusfar
21:33.41brlcadeven to scl
21:33.46starseekerah, ok
21:34.21starseekercan't find a license on the stepmod stuff
21:35.27evilcadthere is no stepmod stuff
21:35.43starseekerhttp://stepmod.cvs.sourceforge.net/stepmod/
21:35.44evilcadhe's not done anything yet
21:35.49starseekeraj
21:35.50starseekerah
21:35.52evilcadoh
21:35.58evilcadcrossed the streams
21:36.01evilcadmeant fbics
21:36.08starseekerand the universe is destroyed! :-)
21:36.25evilcadi was told it's a very bad thing to do
21:44.56*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
21:47.11starseekergrr - bad project, publish licensing restrictions clearly
21:51.38starseekerHey ``Erik:  http://sourceforge.net/projects/e7bfc/
21:52.15starseekerwindows only, unfortunately
22:05.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34034 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am): config.status doesn't belong in EXTRA_DIST, was breaking make distcheck.
22:21.39starseekerconfound it
22:23.59starseekerthe distcheck tarball is pulling in expparse.c and expscan.c even though they are included in DISTCLEANFILES in the Makefile.am!  That's apparently enough to stop bison from running, and since expparse.h is NOT being snarfed in as well the build fails
22:25.38starseekerbrlcad:  I'm not familiar yet with the distcheck rules for tarball building are implemented - is there a chance that some stray cp *.c command in there somewhere is pulling in files despite their being on the DISTCLEAN list?
22:42.19*** join/#brlcad redvsblue (n=blah@c-69-242-189-29.hsd1.mo.comcast.net)
22:47.05starseekeris forced to put it on hold
22:52.58``Eriknifty, starseeker, but I chose bf as a minimal basis for a case study :D
22:53.18``Erikat he moment, I think I'm gonna check out clozure (for some reason, I had it and clojure confused)
23:11.35evilcadstarseeker: again, being in distcleanfiles has nothing to do with being included in the dist -- it's just a list of what to try to remove if someone runs distclean
23:12.23evilcadthose .c files are included because they are either listed as extra_dist and/or because it figured out that they need to be included because they are .l/.y generated
23:18.46Ralithwonders what evilcad is eviling
23:21.32CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1233 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009: New page: = Getting started = Students participating with BRL-CAD in the 2008 GSoC have a '''[[Google_Summer_of_Code/Checklist|checklist]]''' of actions to attend to before getting started on thei...
23:23.32CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1234 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009:
23:28.43CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1236 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009: /* Additional Information */
23:28.44CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1235 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009: /* Additional Information */
23:33.57CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1237 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009/Project_Ideas: Redirecting to [[Google Summer of Code/Project Ideas]]
23:43.19CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1238 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: comment out a few to reduce the list
23:45.51CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1239 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: commenting out not working so hot, just remove them and rely on revision history
23:50.08brlcadRalith: heh, just evil craziness in another channel :)
23:51.21Ralithoo, SoC infos
23:51.31``Erikuh huh, rrrriiiiiggggghhhhhhtttttt
23:52.30``Erikah HA, that's where I stashed it *whew*
23:52.53CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1240 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code: update to 2009
23:52.57CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1241 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009:
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090314

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090314

00:01.07CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1242 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2008/Project_Ideas: add the ideas as they ended for 2008, include a warning notice
00:01.48brlcadanyone wanna make a poster?
00:01.55brlcadsomething like http://brlcad.org/wiki/Image:Brlcad_gsoc2008_flyer.jpg
00:02.04CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1243 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2008: /* Additional Information */ refer to 2008 specifically
00:02.28brlcadcomplete liberty to make it cool
00:09.30starseekerbrlcad:  Ah, so anything .l or .y generated is supposed to be included in generated form?
00:09.40starseekerthat puts a different slant on it
00:11.47brlcadstarseeker: possibly
00:12.01brlcadbut actually, I think it's saying that it's a BUILT_SOURCES makes it included
00:12.36brlcadsince you're supposed to be able to build straight from a dist (at least that's one of the schools of thought)
00:13.19brlcadeither way, it's probably some _SOURCES decl that makes it be included
00:15.13CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1244 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code: clean up the preamble
00:16.14CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1245 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code: /* Getting Started */ smaller image since it's now out of date
00:18.45CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1246 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Acceptance: /* Assign copyright and license under the LGPL */
00:21.39CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1247 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code: /* Getting Started */
00:29.18``ErikI'll participate in braintorming and critique, but I claim no ability in visual creativity
00:29.37``Erikif'n you're talking code or music, ... :D
00:36.08starseekerbrlcad:  Except expparse.h is in BUILT_SOURCES, and doesn't seem to get included
00:36.17starseekersticks it in EXTRA_DIST and tries again
00:38.26madantbrlcad: which program was used for last flyer ?
00:40.56brlcadstarseeker: ah, hm, maybe put BUILT_SOURCES in EXTRA_DIST
00:41.08brlcadmadant: mm, don't recall
00:41.36brlcadprobably Pages
00:41.57madantyeah the header says Photoshop :)
00:42.25brlcadah, could have been just that too
00:43.11``Erikhow does it say photoshop? could it be that pages output a semi-photoshopis header to attempt to force compatability?
00:43.40``Erikmebbe even as much as spoofing client, like opera can do for web stuff? :D just random blabbering here, hain't looked into it myself
00:44.12brlcadnah, I vaguely recall throwing it together quickly in PS
00:44.33``Erikokie
00:44.42brlcaddoesn't take much to whip together a flyer
00:44.51``Erikbrlcad, do you happen to recall the prices of the different long term parkings at the airport?
00:45.56brlcadhttp://www.bwiairport.com/en/parking/information-rates
00:46.24``Erikso that's a no. :) all heil google
00:48.25``Erikthat's, dude
00:48.39``Erikthanks, even
00:49.34brlcad10/daily is all i ever remember
00:50.34``ErikI think park&ride is about there
00:51.02``ErikI think I like the notion of having to present a ticket for them to let you on the lot and stuff more than the automated garage
00:51.07``Erikat the loss of overhead protection
00:53.09brlcadriight, having some dude making minimum wage take a ticket from you makes it more safe than a security patrolled garage with cameras
00:53.53``Erikheh
00:54.01starseekerregrets not having before and after pictures of Sean with his old/new cars
00:54.36``Erikminimum wage dudes walking the garages and watching the cameras
00:54.46``Erikwith no notion of needing a ticket to get to your car
00:54.58brlcadairport staff
00:55.01brlcadthey're unionized
00:55.17``ErikI might do that
00:56.04``Eriklast time I left it in the park&go thingy, came back with a bmw on one side and an mb on the other, I d'no, mebbe some fucktard in a lumina might park next to me and bang my door up *cough* *duck*
00:56.07``ErikI guess I'll wing it :D
00:56.31``Erik*shrug* in the end, it's just a car, 60k o not
00:56.41``ErikI'll stop being a ginormous varginer now
00:59.13starseekerbrlcad:  Any preferencs for visuals on the poster?
00:59.25brlcadstarseeker: nope
00:59.44starseekerhmm.
01:00.22brlcadyou can see what other orgs have done on the site for previous years
01:00.43``Erikwait, no
01:00.47``Erikthere is a preference
01:00.49``Erikwe prefer awesome
01:01.08brlcadhttp://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/GsocFlyers
01:01.25starseeker``Erik:  well, so much for me doing it then :-P
01:01.38``Erikiirc, our last had a 3 panel corner with a sphflake in it
01:02.18``Erikin fact, is it acceptable to adjust the dates and stuff on the old poster and re-use it?
01:02.31brlcadshould use the 2009 logo/info
01:02.41``Erikah
01:08.20brlcadbz's last year was awesome, probably the best to date of all orgs
01:11.07*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
01:12.49``Erikpunker is dj'ing, http://troubleradio.net/
01:38.22redvsblue:D
02:43.03yukonbobbzflag poster -is- cool ;)
02:48.58starseekerhas fun with gimp: http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/concept_to_reality.png
02:50.04brlcadstarseeker: nice picture
02:53.27``Erikhuh, olmos has put on quite a gut
03:07.15*** join/#brlcad Briggs_ (n=chatzill@adsl-70-238-171-170.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net)
03:07.36Briggs_I had a quick question about NMG and booleans in BRL CAD....
03:07.50Briggs_does NMG support boolean operations between two NMG structures directly?
03:08.02brlcadyep
03:08.20Briggs_brlcad: ahhh great.
03:08.31brlcadnmg_evaluate_boolean()
03:08.52Briggs_so it should be possible to get untesselated version of these NMG structures and translate into another n-gon structure.
03:09.58brlcadthat's exactly what it does
03:10.08Briggs_brlcad: thank you so much :)
03:10.29Briggs_brlcad: any comments on the robustness of BRL CADS implementation of booleans on NMG structures?
03:10.30brlcadthere's a handful of funcs, nmg_bool(), nmg_do_bool(),
03:12.01Briggs_one other question, does NMG have any utility functions for building a NMG from a 'polygon soup'/much more primitive data?
03:12.22brlcadthe lib is pretty robust for 99.9% of models, but there are plenty of numerical issues that can arise
03:12.37brlcadparticularly if you're evaluating degenerate or invalid geometry
03:12.48*** join/#brlcad joeedh (n=chatzill@208.187.196.98)
03:13.15brlcadplus there are tolerance structures that you provide that will heavily affect an evaluation
03:13.49brlcad(e.g., set a horribly low tolerance and you end up evaluating degenerate cases)
03:14.57brlcadas for a utility functions to build up from polygon soup .. probably .. but would have to dig around
03:16.06brlcadlooking at the importers (src/conv) would probably be a reasonable starting point or straight to the nmg funcs (in src/librt and src/librt/primitives/nmg)
03:16.33Briggs_brlcad: yeah I figured I might just modify an importer that exists.
03:17.02brlcadif it turns out there isn't something, would be a great addition to make
03:17.04Briggs_brlcad: the biggest difference between my representation and NMG is I dont store shell/region info.
03:17.30Briggs_so I just worry about being able to derive that succesfully.
03:17.41brlcadnods
03:18.41Ralithstarseeker: neat!
03:18.44joeedhhow would you pass data back?
03:19.17Briggs_convert back from the NMG structure.
03:19.23Briggs_thats probably the easiest part actually.
03:19.57joeedhis confused; he thought people told him earlier this would only work on triangulated datasets
03:20.23joeedhso I guess I'm wondering if it passes back triangulated data
03:20.27Briggs_joeedh: did they say 'triangulated' or 'tesselated'... I think in BRL-CAD world there is a difference.
03:20.44Briggs_'tesselated' dataset == explicit BREP reprenseation of a CSG primitive
03:20.44joeedhvaguely remembers both, isn't sure though
03:20.51Briggs_that doenst mean triangulated nessecarilly
03:20.58Briggs_(or at least thats the impression I got from reading the docs)
03:21.30brlcadyeah, triangulated implies .. triangles
03:21.40brlcadthe nmg lib deals with arbitrary polygons
03:21.55joeedhright.
03:22.05brlcadif you only want triangles, you can use nmg
03:22.10brlcador you can use bots
03:22.41Briggs_nah, we definitely want polygons with interior bounded loops for holes as option
03:22.44brlcadpretty simple to turn an nmg into triangles
03:23.26joeedhhow does it handle data like uv textures, or vertex colors, attached to the mesh?
03:23.54Briggs_suspects thats probably not a concern for NMG... may have to be extended.
03:24.16brlcadnmg structures are purely geometric
03:24.51Briggs_this sounds like great starting point for what I want to use it for though :)
03:27.13CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34035 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/express/Makefile.am: Add BUILT_SOURCES to EXTRA_DIST for step
03:27.24brlcadthe structures could be extended to include user data too
03:29.52joeedhyeah we'd have to do that.
03:30.10Briggs_I remember looking at NMG code, its fairly straightforward.
03:31.22brlcadso what are you guys working on?
03:31.42Briggs_brlcad: we are blender devs, working on the mesh system.
03:31.51Raliththe current materials system can't handle UV maps?
03:32.08brlcadaha, cool
03:32.21Briggs_brlcad: I wrote a non-manifold brep (not quite as heavy as NMG) and now that we can do n-gons, I really wanted to look at having booleans that dont stink
03:32.22RalithBriggs_: oo, neat!
03:32.32Briggs_brlcad: joeedh here is working on finishing up the API for the brep/kernel.
03:32.42Ralithhaving high quality blender i/o to BRL-CAD would be awesome.
03:33.35Briggs_Ralith: :)
03:34.05Ralithplaying with blender was my first foray into computer graphics/modeling
03:34.23Briggs_its come a long way!
03:34.31joeedhyeah it really has
03:34.46Ralithyup
03:35.42joeedhbtw, does brl-cad have code to triangulate arbritrary complex polygons?
03:35.50brlcadBriggs_: perhaps interesting to know that comprehensive brep support (including nurbs) is one of our current development priorities
03:36.11brlcadone of the later tasks for next year include implementing (spline surface) brep on brep CSG evaluation
03:36.19Briggs_brlcad: ahhh thats very nice.
03:36.39brlcadpresently working on high performance ray trace evaluation and conversion support (step)
03:36.47Briggs_brlcad: I actually originally looked at the NMG source when designing the new blender mesh kernel and I noticed that there were already pointers in the NMG structs to data like that which were not used.
03:37.04Briggs_or didn't seem to be used yet.
03:38.01brlcadjoeedh: yes
03:38.14brlcadcheck out src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_tri.c and nmg_misc.c
03:38.20joeedhooh cool
03:39.21Briggs_Ralith: something I thought would be interesting is to use blender as interface to BRL-CAD CSG primitives/trees.
03:39.33brlcadbelieve it does a slice n' dice to turn non-convex faces into workable pieces
03:40.04brlcadBriggs_: you recall which structure in question?
03:40.20brlcadI just looked and didn't see a user data pointer like we usually have
03:40.31RalithBriggs_: that would be very nice; does the blender renderer handle that kind of geometry?
03:40.35Ralithgiven librt
03:40.40joeedhbrlcad: this looks a little like trapezoidal decomposition (from a quick look at the code).  does your version produce nice tesselations?
03:40.41Briggs_brlcad: it was the edge(not edgeuse I think) that had pointer to curve data.
03:40.59Briggs_Ralith: no, I would probably have to have it spit out an NMG.
03:41.02Briggs_Ralith: and then render that.
03:41.17RalithBriggs_: wouldn't that really kill quality on smooth surfaces? :/
03:41.20Briggs_Ralith: which isnt quite as 'cool'.
03:41.23Ralithnot nearly.
03:41.24Briggs_yeah it would :/
03:41.38Ralithis that how nurbs are implemented?
03:41.45Ralithconvert to mesh for render?
03:41.49Briggs_blenders nurbs are triangulated, yeah
03:42.02Briggs_blenders raytracer only understands a bag of triangles.
03:42.14Ralithtoo much work to extent it?
03:42.16brlcadjoeedh: not nice according to recent research measures, but certainly good enough for most purposes -- it depends
03:42.34RalithI mean
03:42.39Ralithyou could just call librt for raycasting
03:42.42joeedh<PROTECTED>
03:42.51Ralithso it might not be too much work
03:42.59Briggs_joeedh: you mean scanfill?
03:42.59joeedhwe implemented an ear clipper tesselator, which produces nice tesselations but is kindof slow.
03:43.03joeedhyeah
03:43.16Briggs_joeedh: quality is not an issue for drawing, but for conversion.
03:43.34Briggs_well I guess renderer we woudl want nicer quality....
03:43.43brlcadBriggs_: hm, curve data sounds like spline data, not material informaiton
03:44.39RalithBriggs_: I don't know much about raytracer design, let alone blender's implementation, but it seems like librt will do the hard bits for you.
03:44.41Briggs_brlcad: sorry, I think we are geting two seperate lines of conversation mixed up :)
03:45.04Briggs_Ralith: possibly, it becomes a more difficult problem when you factor in 3d procredural textures/ect I think.
03:45.34Ralithhm, it might be an interesting study to see if using librt in other cases too would speed the renderer up.
03:45.40RalithBRL-CAD is very heavily optimised.
03:46.15Ralithyeah, I thought there'd be more to it, but I would hope that the renderer was designed to be extensible.
03:46.15Briggs_brlcad: when I said that there were some unused pointers I saw in NMG last time I looked I was commenting on the fact that you are not invetigating comprehensive brep support
03:46.25Briggs_Ralith: blenders renderer?
03:46.27Ralithyeah
03:46.33Briggs_Ralith: not really :)
03:46.34RalithBriggs_: actually, comprehensive brep support is WIP right now.
03:46.36Ralithoh.
03:46.38Raliththat's a shame.
03:46.51RalithI wonders, does yafray support CSG?
03:46.53Briggs_brlcad: are 'now' investigating even... not 'not'.
03:47.27joeedhRalith: I don't think so.
03:47.29Briggs_Ralith: blenders renderer was originally probably written to work 'just enough' for the productions that they did when it was just an in house tool
03:47.55RalithBriggs_: thought that might be the case, but it seems like it's been extended an awful lot since then
03:47.56joeedhwell it's been heavily refactored since then.  though some of the ore evil optimizations remain,ger.
03:48.13joeedhit's still a production tool first though :) so not the best thing in the world
03:48.24joeedhore == more
03:49.28Briggs_Ralith: yeah, but I think once again these things are just 'bolted on' to serve some immediate need.
03:49.39brlcadmore specifically, comprehensive nurbs/brep support is what's presently a work in progress -- we have an old nurbs implementation from a long time ago but are now working on a completely new implementation using new research (starting from rt06)
03:50.05Briggs_brlcad: ahh ok.
03:50.09Raliththis is why I love the BRL-CAD project; simultaneously ancient and cutting edge.
03:50.23brlcadas for "brep" support, technically nmgs fit that bill (and the old nurbs implementation uses the nmg structures for the topological structure)
03:51.03brlcadbut they're much more heavily used as a polygonal structure as you've noticed
03:51.07brlcad(nmgs)
03:53.50Briggs_right.
03:58.28*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.4 posted this weekend (20080313) || GSoC 2009 Begins!
04:15.34Axman6Release 7.14.4 posted this weekend (20080313) ?
04:15.44Axman6that's... a little while ago right?
04:30.26brlcadheh
04:30.45*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.4 posted this weekend (20090313) || GSoC 2009 Begins!
04:37.10Axman6:)
04:38.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34036 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac src/other/Makefile.am):
04:38.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: FINALLY - make distcheck passes with src/other/step added in. Need to revisit
04:38.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: the handling of yylineno in express, but otherwise no major known issues. Right
04:38.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: now no test logic is hooked up, and probably isn't needed for BRL-CAD purposes.
04:51.33``Erikwow, why didn't I notice that the first time... she's eating sushi the right way
04:51.41``Erikbsg... with her fingers O.o
05:01.12Axman6what is the right way to eat sushi?
05:09.31Axman6pokes ``Erik in the sushi roll
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11:18.14CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1248 10/wiki/GSoC: create a shortcut
11:27.47brlcadstarseeker: hm, you made it harder for yourself trying to mix a white background with a black background but it's certainly a start
11:29.20brlcadI'd suggest ditching the contrast, maybe just go with the tire taking up a third of a page, then blend the logo into the opposite corner, then use the remaining two corners for the info
11:29.54brlcadand you don't need to make it speculative -- we'll know on monday
11:30.01brlcaddates are on the timeline
11:33.26brlcadlogo is here: http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/downloads/list?can=2&q=logo+2009&colspec=Filename+Summary+Uploaded+Size+DownloadCount
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13:32.02``Erikhrm
13:34.12``Erik_sushi_: I was just cleaning up a directory, saw a file named 'thread.c' and was trying to figure out if it was an experiment to test/break some kernel threading capability, took me a bit to realize it was your bolt generator... that's another reason for proper informative comments (license, author, purpose) at the beginning of a source file :D
13:35.38``Erikbrlcad: bz doesn't have any single player capability, does it? I'm preparing a travel care package here :)
13:35.58brlcadit does, it's just not fun
13:36.11brlcadyou can start your own server and play against bots
13:36.25brlcadgood for newbies, but gets old real fast
13:36.29``Erikhm
13:36.43``ErikI think I'd rather hack code, then
13:36.49``Eriksounds like weak bots
13:38.01``Erikuhm, I got mysql and apache running, but I haven't tested anything. In all likelyhood, a lot of the php pages will fail due to missing dependancies
13:38.25brlcadthey're actually pretty good bots
13:38.29``Erikand for all I know, none of the tables survived transport... a combination of laziness and ethics prevents me from digging in
13:38.34brlcadespecially when they swarm you in numbers
13:38.39``Erikgood strategically, or technically?
13:38.54brlcada little of both
13:38.56``ErikI enjoy sloppy but strategic bots, precise immediate bots are no fun
13:39.16brlcadthey lean towards the latter slightly
13:40.07``ErikI think starcraft was an excellent example of how to do them... they messed up a lot, but the bot was reasonably forward thinking... definitely not human class, but enough that appropriate strategy and tactics were required to dominate :)
13:40.32``Erikquake style aimbot things are just not fun :)
13:40.50``Erikwill code, instaed
13:40.53``Erikinstead
13:41.26``Erikmebbe look at how libdm can be used for a 'rich' immediate display, for a public adrt client
13:41.39``Erikprovided the battery holds out :/
13:41.42brlcadthat'd be cool
13:42.17``Erikdo you know if they got rid of that 'no extra laptop battery on flights' rule?
13:42.51``Erik(heh, or how they'd react to bringing an extra laptop to circumvent that fucktarded rule)
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13:42.53brlcadI've never stopped carrying two and never had a problem
13:43.18``Erikhm, was a link on smacksnot, I might have to buy a second for my macbook, even though I haven't gotten close to dead yet
13:43.54``Erikheh, mebbe I'll look into that gimpy mouse behavior, or mebbe I'll just hack lisp code so I can retire :D
13:44.11``Erikeither way, I won't be randomly jabbering on irc, so something good might happen O:-)
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15:13.14``ErikI LOVE COMCAST!
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15:25.17brlcadstarseeker: hmm, better blend of the two images with the tire and moko but still several issues -- text needs a different font, would be nice to showcase tire better/bigger, bullets look cheesy (gov't is already messing with ya, eh?), url should be a one-liner, and the gsoc logo image clashes (maybe make the entire footer that color)
15:28.20``Erikheh
15:28.41``Erik:( I envy you, the dirty reality of protecting you is fucking brutal
15:28.42``Erik:(
15:47.11brlcadwonders what ``Erik is talking about
15:49.22brlcadbtw, looks like fancast only has some of hulu and other shows
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19:12.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34037 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): more distcheck fixes. few files missing from dist and a few that can die with the old build system gone.
19:31.16bjorkintosh<PROTECTED>
19:33.44brlcadbjorkintosh: kind of an open-ended question
19:34.29brlcaddecent content and animation modeler
19:35.19bjorkintoshhave you used it much?
19:36.03brlcadI've followed and used blender long before it was ever open source
19:36.40bjorkintoshso how would you compare it's purposes with brl cad's?
19:36.41brlcadmore following than using, and the little use I have had is quickly forgotten
19:36.47bjorkintoshare they more or less the same?
19:36.55bjorkintoshah
19:36.55brlcadeh
19:36.56brlcadless
19:37.13brlcadit's like comparing maya to catia
19:37.25bjorkintoshmakes sense.
19:37.29brlcadthey have so little to do with each other beyond the "it does modeling"
19:37.45brlcadhow they do it and for what purposes and with what fidelity is completely different
19:37.56brlcadthe same holds for brl-cad and blender
19:38.23brlcadblender would make for a horrible cad system and we make for a horrible content modeler
19:39.04brlcadand no, you can't really do both -- the domains are massive and separate
20:13.55Briggs_nods
20:14.09Briggs_blender would stink at cad.
20:15.38Briggs_although there are some people who only use a small sub-set of what most CAD systems provide and have been able to get by with doing just a small bit of additional scripting/tools in Blender.
20:21.40yukonbobhello, cadheads
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21:08.18starseekerinvites someone else to attack the poster question - art skills are not his forte
21:08.45starseekerwill keep trying if he must, but the odds aren't promising :-/
21:11.25starseekerbrlcad:  <snort> that logo would clash with anything
21:13.00starseekercontemplates distorting the logo...
21:17.15brlcadstarseeker: it's an improvement over the first, just still with some issues :)
21:17.48brlcadthe logo clashes because it's free-floating and has a hard corner
21:18.03starseekerok, working on that - give me a sec
21:18.09brlcadthat top-left has to "disappear"
21:18.43starseekeruh - the tire?
21:19.00brlcadeither as a fade (which would be incredibly hard to do well) or as a footer or corner or similar ornamentation
21:19.04madant_where where :) is the flyer ?
21:19.09brlcadno, the top-left to the logo
21:19.15brlcadthe tire looks good
21:19.23brlcadshould emphasize it, make it bigger
21:19.32brlcadmadant_: not ready :)
21:20.00madant_i meant is the work in progress online ? :)
21:20.49madant_does not like power outages
21:22.15starseekerah
21:25.33starseekerbrlcad:  a fade like this better?  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/poster2a.png
21:25.40starseekergoes to get food
21:29.44brlcadyeah, that's much better
21:30.21brlcadI made a redirect if you want to shorten the url, http://brlcad.org/wiki/GSoC
21:32.48brlcadwoot, distcheck passes
21:33.38alex_jonibrlcad: started reading the HACKING page (following the GSoC link), and I noticed a minor typo (incouraged vs. encouraged)..
21:34.36madant_looks good .. openmoko in the background ?
21:35.24alex_joniyeah, teh flyer is nice .. the only thing I don't like about it is the GSoC logo, but that's google's fault ;)
21:35.47madant_yeah.. even the t-shirt i got was childish :P with flowers :D
22:41.08CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34038 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: fix an incouraged typo alex_joni noticed as well as a half-dozen others noticed.
22:42.36brlcadthx alex_joni
23:26.23bjorkintosh<PROTECTED>
23:56.27elite01pervert :(
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090315

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090315

01:09.53bjorkintoshwhat's perverted about f#?
01:47.44brlcadbjorkintosh: he was talking about you, not f# ;)
01:48.15bjorkintoshhah
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02:56.45CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34039 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed a bug in the windows installer where the havoc model was getting installed as havog.g
04:25.30Ralithlol
07:01.18madant_loves waking up at 12 pm on a sunday :)
07:36.57*** join/#brlcad Kamran (n=qadir010@58-27-158-130.wateen.net)
07:37.12Kamranhi all
07:38.16Kamrani want to work for brlcad
07:38.24Kamranin this summer
07:39.48*** part/#brlcad Kamran (n=qadir010@58-27-158-130.wateen.net)
09:28.18madant_Kamran: you mean GSoC ?
09:31.46CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Homovulgaris 07http://brlcad.org * r1249 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009: Link corrected
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11:52.45CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1250 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009: reword
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12:29.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34040 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/lib/MGEDpage.itk:
12:29.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: fix two bugs in rtwizard: 1) perspective mode changes aren't applied when you
12:29.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: hit cancel, they actually revert back now and 2) occlusion mode no longer spews
12:29.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: an error about an unknown variable, and subsequently no longer provides
12:29.38CIA-40BRL-CAD: superfluous apply/cancel buttons either.
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15:08.51*** join/#brlcad cadefy (n=cadefy@124-254-108-177-dsl.ispone.net.au)
15:08.53cadefyhi there
15:09.01cadefydoes this channel help with AutoCAD?
15:21.12louipcnot generally
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16:46.33*** join/#brlcad tedcx (n=root@c-76-115-203-233.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
16:49.06tedcxanyone able to help getting a framebuffer working? I have 2 nvidia 9500GT caards in xinerama dual display mode.
16:53.48brlcadtedcx: what's the problem exactly?
16:56.33tedcxexec fbserv 1 /dev/fb & fb_open: no such device "/dev/fb; I have a fresh compile of 7.14 on an Intel Nehalem chip - am trudging thru the mug.g demo ; have the wire frame up and would like to ray trace
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17:09.10tedcxbrb
17:24.49brlcad/dev/fb isn't a valid device, those are brl-cad device identifiers
17:27.30brlcadrun 'fbhelp' outside of mged (or exec fbhelp) to see the devices available, but I suspect you need either /dev/X or /dev/wgl
17:28.39brlcadif you want a quick ray trace, though, just run "rt"
17:29.07*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=Don@c-68-62-76-34.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
17:30.20brlcadhowdy dtidrow
17:31.48dtidrowhowdy  :-)
17:31.56dtidrowbeen awhile
17:32.59brlcadindeed
17:33.11brlcadkeeping busy?
17:33.32dtidrowyeah
17:34.07dtidrownow that the weather's getting nice again, I can start working on the yard
17:34.28brlcadgot any interesting coding projects going on?
17:34.56dtidrowstuff at work is keeping me busy
17:35.14brlcadso nothing really interesting :)
17:36.03dtidrowthis week is going to be rough - both projects I'm working on at work have demos, so I'm gonna be busy getting those up and running
17:36.09dtidrowsomething like that  ;-)
17:36.53dtidrowdid I mention that I've relocated to MI?
17:37.07brlcada few months back, yes?
17:37.28dtidrowback in July, yes
17:37.36brlcadyeah, you did mention it
17:37.41dtidrowdidn't remember if I had mentioned that
17:38.14brlcadso more than six months now, was it a good move?
17:38.37dtidrowone of the guys in the area I work in has the BRL-CAD t72 rendering as his wallpaper  ;-)
17:39.08dtidrowso far, though it'll depend on how much DoD gets cut
17:39.53dtidrowif both FCS and EFV get chopped, it could get ugly
17:39.54brlcadneat!
17:40.17dtidrowalso, I'm not doing much in the way of graphics programming, which is disappointing
17:40.22brlcadwell, not the ugly part but the wallpaper ;)
17:40.35dtidrowyeah, gathered that  ;-)
17:42.25dtidrowactually I had an old co-worker that would 'neat' in a satirical manner, so it works both ways
17:42.42dtidrowwould _use_ 'neat', rather
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19:52.17tedcxseems  like  ray tracing after exec fbserv 1 /dev/ogl & works for a while but the screens freeze up --- I have dual monitors connected to each of 2 nvidia cards - what is the best setup? maybe add a 3rd card and monitor with its own X server?
19:57.09brlcadtedcx: that really depends on your preferences and requirements
19:57.24brlcaduse /dev/X instead of /dev/ogl
19:57.46brlcadthe ogl driver provokes various bugs in glx driver implementations and various X servers
19:58.08tedcxOK
19:58.38brlcadotherwise, any combination should work so long as X is configured properly
19:58.42tedcxI presume I can ignore Xlib:  extension "Generic Event Extension" missing on display ":0.0".
19:58.54brlcadso long as it pops up the window, yes
19:59.11tedcxsure dows
19:59.17tedcxdoes
19:59.37brlcadmight want to tell the server how big of a context you intend to use, e.g. -S1024
20:02.01tedcxjust did - works fine
20:02.48dreevesbrlcad did you see the question I asked you directly?
20:03.05tedcxany way to use the nvidia hardware or is it best to blit to the frame bufffer -
20:03.12tedcxyes I used -s1024
20:05.36brlcaddreeves: the issue is a workable nurbs implementation didn't exist so we're in the process of implementing said support
20:06.43brlcadthere's a lot of old code that stay wrote that does just about everything except trimmed nurbs, but does it very very slowly (using a very old ray evaluation technique) and it has acne problems
20:07.41brlcadso implementing it over again (starting with newer research from rt06), it now supports trims and ray-traces but isn't yet stable/robust/fast/finished/etc
20:11.05dreevesok is there a good example of a .g that causes problems I can play around with?
20:11.52brlcadin order to implement a solution that we can claim is "crack-free" air-tight, we're going to reapproach the current ray-tracing (which is probably 80% of the way there) in a piecewise fashion
20:12.29brlcadthere are docs in doc/brep.txt and doc/TODO.BREP that explain a little more detail
20:12.57dreevesok
20:13.39brlcadthere are testing apps in src/proc-db/brep* that will make a nurbs brep .g
20:14.04brlcadand do well to explain how the brep's are pieced together
20:14.19brlcadthe openNURBS library is what we're using for the container format (src/other/openNURBS)
20:14.31brlcadthat pretty much works as promised very nicely
20:14.46brlcadalas, though, openNURBS doesn't provide ray-tracing
20:14.49brlcadthat's what we have to implement
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21:13.21dreevesbtw thanks for the info
21:14.04brlcadnp
21:34.02brlcadso we need to expand our ideas list
21:34.04brlcadattach potential mentors
21:34.06brlcadand describe requisite skills
21:35.25brlcadstarseeker, ``Erik, yukonbob, madant_, d-lo, whomever else is potentially interested in mentoring or being mentored ;)
21:45.30madant_k
21:54.48brlcadwhat a great site.. http://janitor.kernelnewbies.org/
21:55.23brlcadto have so many devs that you dedicate a site and set of projects to "code cleanup" :)
21:57.48louipcthat is cool
21:58.55madant_:) hmm.. linux kernel an open source success :)
21:59.30louipcgnu also :D
22:00.16madant_i wonder when hurd is going to be great ..
22:06.55CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1251 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: revert back to more ideas instead of less, need to restructure
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23:13.49starseekerbrlcad:  Well, I know you didn't like the font and aren't likely to care for any I have available, so here's a template without any of the text:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/poster_template.png
23:28.36brlcadstarseeker: hehe
23:29.38brlcadhow about without the tire and the text box, tire as separate image (so I can re-add/move it if needed)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090316

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090316

01:01.10yukonbobbrlcad: re: gsoc -- we need to have a front-and-center permalink to the GSOC wiki on the main website...
01:01.39yukonbobre: mentoring -- I'd consider helping however I can...
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01:22.25brlcadyukonbob: was planning on adding a news item if we get accepted, but yeah, it would be nice to have a better more visible link
01:27.41yukonbobnods...
01:29.06yukonbobbrlcad: I'm -=happy=- to help however I can, if you (or anybody else) thinks I can assist.
01:31.37yukonbobmy sched is pretty booked, but, as I said, if I can help, let me know how.
01:31.51yukonbob(re: booked -- full time work :P )
01:36.24yukonbobstarseeker: fwiw, I don't think the wheel should have the 'schematics' in the background 'bleed-through' it; ie: turn the transparency in the wheel assembly off. (on my $0.02).
01:36.28yukonbob*only my
01:41.55starseekerbrlcad:  sure, one sec
01:42.35starseekeryukonbob:  there are a few ways to do it - I was going for the "fade" from design to reality
01:42.52yukonbobstarseeker: hi :)
01:42.56starseekerhowdy :-)
01:43.13yukonbobI see the fade from wireframe -> "reality", and I like it.
01:43.32starseekerlet me get the core images up for brlcad quick
01:43.33yukonbobwhat I'm talking about is the subtle "schematics" in the background showing through the "real" rim
01:43.51starseekeryou mean the moko schematics?
01:44.05yukonbobI guess so :)
01:44.16brlcadyukonbob: I'm sure you can assist (e.g., could be a backup mentor again, could work on that visible link)
01:44.30brlcadcould also work on the ideas page
01:44.40yukonbobhey brlcad :
01:44.43yukonbob:)
01:44.50brlcadthat needs to be separated into two categories -- high priority and secondary (or something similar)
01:44.54brlcadhi :)
01:45.33brlcadalso could use some more items, few refactoring code cleanup tasks would be good
01:46.01yukonbobwould toss "convert bwish to a "standard wish/tlcsh loadable module"
01:46.04yukonbobinto that list.
01:46.22yukonbob*wish/tclsh
01:46.36brlcadsure, go for it
01:49.17starseekerbrlcad:  here you go:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/gsoc/
01:50.13starseekerlet me know if you want the non-transparent version of the tire
02:03.57yukonbobwill add to bwish to wiki list tonight, and look at organizing whole list...; am now in transit.
02:08.15brlcadstarseeker: could use a bigger tire
02:08.27brlcadyukonbob: cool, thx
02:09.08brlcadwe have to have the list finalized by noon (EDT)
02:09.23brlcadthat's when they'll review our app
02:12.18dreevesbrlcad looking at extrude.c in librt in the rt_extrude_shot function it doesn't appear to ever free the memory for the normals that are allocated in the FindRoots function...
02:17.14brlcaddreeves: not surprising, that's a bit of code that is rarely ever used
02:17.28brlcadit shouldn't be allocating memory at all
02:17.44brlcadcalling a malloc in the middle of a ray shot is very bad
02:17.46dreevesYeah that is what I was looking into just to get my feet wet
02:17.59brlcadthere's a todo entry to make it work without alloc
02:18.05dreevesI saw that on your list of things todo
02:18.10brlcadah, cool
02:19.52brlcadif anything, it could batch them or preallocate during prep, but it really would be best to avoid allocation altogether to compute the roots
02:20.32brlcadand even better still to get an arbitrary degree curve polynomial root solver into libbn
02:20.54brlcadthere is a polynomial solver in libbn, but is compile-time wired to a given max degree
02:22.00dreevesI was thinking in the prep function
02:22.44dreevesI'm thinking about it but seems like an arbitrary degree curve is what is standing in the way of getting rid of the alloc's
02:24.16dreevesobviously but I'm sure we once we know the degree of the curve we can pre allocate the memory but the problem is management of that memory that is what I'm working on right now
02:24.52dreevesI will go check out libbn
02:28.56brlcadstarseeker: never mind, took care of it
02:29.30brlcaddreeves: yeah
02:32.42brlcadalso, the solver in libbn probably isn't the right type or have the right stability conditions -- would take a bit of testing to verify its use
02:38.10dreevesYeah I assume you are talking about the root solvers in poly.c so yeah those seem to be specialized cases of root finders not somuch I can adjust the max degree then recompile...I was going to experiment with the test case of the sketch to just call to that root finder vs the one findroots just to see the impact on performance but that's ok I think I can work with the find roots
02:38.27starseekerbrlcad:  just resize, or re-render?
02:38.42brlcadstarseeker: never mind :)
02:38.59brlcadcan you repost your last version?
02:44.29starseekerof the poster? uh, one sec...
02:45.17brlcadyeah
02:46.43starseekerhttp://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/gsoc/poster2a.png
02:46.49starseekerthat one?
02:48.44brlcadyep, thanks
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03:34.55brlcadhow about this?  http://brlcad.org/~sean/tmp/brlcad_gsoc2009_poster.png
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03:56.04louipclooks rustic
04:11.54starseekerbrlcad:  font's a bit hard to read, but looks good
04:13.25brlcadstarseeker: which one?
04:14.03starseekerthe "Interested in 3D CAD Software?" one
04:15.01starseekerbut obviously my design chops are minimal - I would have cheerfully used the previous fonts ;-)
04:16.06starseekerI don't know how workable it is, but would it be possible to have an orange "fill color" in the brlcad.org/wiki/gsoc link, to match the logo next to it?
04:18.20brlcadnah, that's good feedback
04:18.33brlcadhad the same inclination, but always good to hear it from others to confirm
04:18.50brlcadthat's the point of getting a critique :)
04:19.31starseekercritiquing artwork probably comes under the "net negative producer" you studied in that management class, as a rule ;-)
04:19.41brlcadheh
04:20.04starseeker's thought was that an "engineering" app should strive for a crisp, clean look...
04:20.23starseekerunfortuantely that's waaaay to easy to make into "default and boring"
04:28.28brlcadtrue, would normally go for that, but then the logo becomes even more distracting
04:28.56brlcadeasier to follow that style than fight it given it's so distinct
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04:40.40starseekerfight the good fight! ;-)
04:47.50brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/~sean/tmp/brlcad_gsoc2009_poster2.png
05:01.12starseekeryeah, that works better :-)
05:02.27starseekerWhat do you think about the Google Summer of Code 2009... paragraph?  does it need a non-white fill?  I'm not sure, just asking
05:21.15brlcadhm, http://brlcad.org/~sean/tmp/brlcad_gsoc2009_poster3.png
05:23.49starseekeryeah, I like that
05:23.54starseekerthat one gets my vote :-)
05:25.12starseekerbrlcad:  should the color bar fade ins be parallel to the tire fade in, or should the light sides be on the right?
05:25.38starseekeris wondering if the left side looks "washed out" if all the fading is on that side
05:25.56starseekerwould mean the logo would be on the left though...
05:25.58starseekerhmm
05:26.09brlcadit washes out if there's too much transparency
05:26.23brlcadand it's unbalanced if it's just solid
05:30.34dreevesI got rid of the memory allocation from the root find but it only increased the speed by 30% is that what you would expect? or more increase?
05:30.56starseekeryeah, I think you've got it brlcad
05:31.01starseekernice job
05:37.36brlcaddreeves: I would expect a fair bit more, but depends on how many bezier's are in the sketch
05:37.56dreevesjust 1
05:38.12dreevesIt's the sketch you attached to the tracker
05:41.00yukonbobre: solid block in gsoc poster vs. fading block (and text fill-colour): too bad it's unbalanced... that block  ("balance of poster" vs. text readability) is at odds with itself...
05:41.14dreevesI just focused on the root finder because I clocked it and it was taking about 93% of the overall time to raytrace
05:41.58yukonbobbrlcad: do you have an example of the solid block, for comparison's sake?
05:42.39yukonbobif they're both (top and bottom) solid, does the poster look "out of balance"?
05:44.13brlcaddreeves: 93% sounds about right .. that's why I'd expect more than 30% if it drops to near zero
05:47.04dreevesok drilled down into some of the funcs called from findRoots and noticed they are allocing mem to
05:47.10dreeveswill work on those
05:53.31brlcadmallocs show up as a real hot spot on the profiler if they occur during any *_shot() evaluation (even once per ray)
06:07.21brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/~sean/tmp/brlcad_gsoc2009_poster4.png
06:13.52yukonbobbrlcad: that looks better, imo. Here's what else I'd consider: Make the wheel assembly -not- transparent in any way; no 'bleeding' of the schematic through the wheel; the wheel simply fades across itself from wireframe to raytraced. The mask for the wheel is 100% (ie: solid) for everything that describes the wheel, but nothing that's blank. The bottom layer is the OpenMoko schematic, the middle layer are the bars&text (solid, or at least
06:15.23yukonbobThe net effect would be the wheel covers everything, the bars are more solid (making the text more readable), and the openmoko gfx is showing in all other areas.
06:15.53yukonbobthe mask for the wheel could be the image of the wheel itself, with some hand edits around the wireframe section on the left.
06:17.02yukonbobThe mask would be a completely solid blob... (ie: the holes in the rim would show white, not openmoko gfx).
06:19.19yukonbobin fact... I think I'd adjust the mask for the wireframe to move the visibility left -- it looks like some of the wireframe hits the text in the top bar
06:20.49yukonbobwould install GIMP if he wasn't in middle of re-building world
06:20.59yukonbobwhat's the due-date for this poster?
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06:24.55brlcadit's not worth spending a whole lot more time on, frankly
06:25.03yukonbobhehe
06:25.04yukonbob:)
06:25.07brlcadbut technically, it's not "due" .. just good marketing
06:25.13brlcadafter acceptance
06:28.06yukonbobis GIMP project?
06:28.24brlcadphotoshop
06:28.37yukonbobah
06:28.51yukonbob<-- not a photoshop person
06:39.01brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/~sean/tmp/brlcad_gsoc2009_poster5.png
06:39.11brlcadsome of those ideas
06:40.43brlcadnot quite as big a fan of the solid bars, though, fairly plain
06:41.20brlcadprobably would work with a really light gradient, but I think it's at a good enough point for this year
06:41.40brlcadneed to focus on the ideas list
06:46.44yukonbobI think you're right re: solid bars --- I like gradient in bottom bar of poster4, though...
06:47.03yukonbobkeeps text more readable than other gradients.
06:50.02yukonbobZzzzz
06:52.08brlcadagrees
06:52.21brlcadv4 it is
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07:25.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34041 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/lib/ (MGEDpage.itk PictureTypeBase.itcl):
07:25.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: implement support to actually utilize the perspective mode setting (apparently
07:25.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: it was never wired up). this makes it work though there is still some quirk
07:25.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: where you sometimes need to display one of the other render 'steps' so that it
07:25.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: finds the setting.
07:27.29CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34042 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
07:27.29CIA-40BRL-CAD: implement support to actually utilize the perspective mode setting (apparently
07:27.29CIA-40BRL-CAD: it was never wired up). this makes it work though there still flimsy (need the
07:27.29CIA-40BRL-CAD: main view). this was noticed and requested by a few folks on and off the cad
07:27.29CIA-40BRL-CAD: team (gillich and various analysts iirc).
07:30.45CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1252 10/wiki/GSOC: Redirecting to [[Google Summer of Code]]
07:31.00CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1253 10/wiki/Gsoc: Redirecting to [[Google Summer of Code]]
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07:37.49CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Brlcad gsoc2009 flyer.png]]": BRL-CAD GSoC 2009 Flyer
07:40.32CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1255 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2008: add the 2008 flyer to give it some identity
07:40.58*** join/#brlcad Kamran (n=qadir010@58-27-157-151.wateen.net)
07:41.06Kamranhi all
07:42.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1256 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009: add the 2009 flyer
07:42.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1257 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code: update to the 2009 flyer
07:44.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1258 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Flyers: start a gallery
07:46.41CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1259 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code: link to the flyers page
07:46.50brlcadhowdy Kamran
07:50.56Kamrani want to work on Web-based solid geometry model repository
07:53.20CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1260 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: organize into high-priority and other
07:53.21brlcadwhat can you tell me about that task?
07:53.39brlcad(that are you ideas for it, I know what's on the ideas page)
07:56.18Kamranwe can save the geomatries in xml formats
07:56.38Kamranand then publish that xml in repository for sharing
07:59.30CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1261 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: link to the design movie for the gui task
08:00.50brlcadKamran: hm, the problem there would be that we have a format already -- introducing xml on the backend would provide very little gain and be rather cumbersome to accomplish efficiently
08:01.31brlcadthis can't be just some generic model repository, it needs to relate to our tools and formats for engineering and solid modeling purposes
08:02.27brlcade.g. if xml was going to be on the backend, i'd think STEP-XML would make a better choice than anything we'd come up with in a summer for compatibility, but that is a beast in itself (and you could probably spend all summer writing a converter)
08:03.43Kamranso how a student can achieve it using Drupal or Mediawiki?
08:04.16Kamrani think if converter is implmented that would be, it will be achieved?
08:06.03CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1262 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: /* Web-based solid geometry model repository */ add some notes as this tends to be a hot topic
08:06.19brlcadKamran: no te entiendo
08:07.08brlcaddrupal/mediawiki just provide a plugin framework from which to work in, with the point being that it's not a fully custom system that someone has to wade through later
08:07.50brlcadthere are other options like a rails project, possibly ajax, or some other framework .. just not completely/mostly home-grown
08:08.53brlcadas for the converter, my point was that we have a compact and efficient .g file format as well as a couple dozen importers and exporters -- ideally, models could be automatically stored and converted between the various supported formats
08:10.07Kamranif i have to work on this web-based repository, i have to patach the repository or not?
08:12.41brlcadpatch the repository?
08:12.43CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1263 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: /* Additional Projects */ all is not lost.
08:13.02brlcadyou're making a repository .. it's a matter of what goes into the repository and how you store things
08:13.03Kamranyes
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08:18.45CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1264 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: add difficulties
08:19.59brlcadKamran: brl-cad is a collection of more than 400 tools, to suggest a model repository, your proposal should reference which tools you will be using and how -- I'd suggest checking out the source code and reading HACKING and src/README for starters (there's a section on the various dirs)
08:20.34Kamranthanks
08:34.09CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1265 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: add a bug-fix task and annotate the 2008 projects
08:34.33brlcadnp
08:48.52CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1266 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: merge mged and archer
08:54.33CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1267 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: /* CSG evaluation of Boundary Representations */ boole and esolid
08:58.30CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1268 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: /* Geometry database (i.e. ".g" file format) enhancements */
08:59.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1269 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: swap
09:09.11CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1270 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: implict to explicit brep support
09:21.42CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1271 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: fixed precision project
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10:26.37madant_brlcad: nice fonts ;)
10:28.22madant_starseeker: :) I like the poster
10:54.41CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Homovulgaris 07http://brlcad.org * r1272 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: /* Constraints and Parametrics */ Short Introduction added
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13:02.46starseekermadant_:  thanks :-)
13:03.03starseekerbrlcad pulled it together
13:03.19starseekerjust took some screenshots and blended 'em
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14:39.18CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1273 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: AquaTk MGED
14:41.00CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1274 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: /* Additional Projects */
14:49.31CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1275 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: add initial mentor list
14:50.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1276 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: /* Mentors */
14:52.45CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1277 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: /* High Priority Projects */
14:54.47CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1278 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: move mentors to the end
14:55.57CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1279 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: don't link to contact page, requires login
14:57.54CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1280 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009: /* Getting started */ don't be redundant
14:59.23CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1281 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009: /* Getting started */
15:00.49CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1282 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009: /* Getting started */ reword
15:03.42CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1283 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code: /* Previous years BRL-CAD has participated */
15:09.16CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1284 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code: link both posters
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16:16.26starseekerbrlcad:  any idea when they'll announce the projects chosen?
16:17.47d-lo18th I thought....
16:20.14ashishraihey !! where are the project ideas for BRL-CAD - can u please give the specific link :)
16:20.21ashishraifor GSoC
16:20.57starseekerhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code
16:21.16starseekerhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas
16:21.36ashishraistarseeker: thanks :)
16:21.39starseekerremember though, selected orgs aren't known yet
16:22.07ashishraibrlcad will be :)
16:22.21brlcadashishrai: it's not guaranteed
16:22.41brlcadprobably 80/20 chances
16:23.02ashishraii just hope so
16:23.04ashishrai:)
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17:07.11tedcxHow do we get rid of jaggies in the renderings?
17:07.44starseekeruh... higher resolution render?
17:07.57starseekerdepends on whether it's a geometry issue
17:09.46brlcadtedcx: you can either turn on jittering (e.g. -j8) or increase your render size and scale down (recommended) or both (for best quality)
17:13.12tedcxis jittering "dithering"?
17:15.28brlcadnope
17:15.55brlcadnormally when you render an image, rays are fired in the exact center of a given pixel
17:16.10brlcadjittering has it fire randomly within the pixel to avoid aliasing artifacts
17:17.49brlcad-j8 means fire 8 random rays and it then picks the most consistent result (doesn't average/smooth the values still for various reasons)
17:18.26brlcadthinks there needs to be a jitter-style option that does averaging
17:21.08CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34043 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: implement a jitter-style averaging option for rt
17:25.48tedcxand are the "framebuffers" just that or does the "ogl" really write ogl to whatever graphics card you happen to have?
17:31.57starseekerglares as rt enters some kind of colorview loop
17:37.06brlcadtedcx: the framebuffer type is a framebuffer communications layer detail, just what protocol it talks to the framebuffer with
17:37.27brlcadall the framebuffers are raster contexts, the display managers are 3D contexts
17:38.22brlcadso the ogl framebuffer does end up making OpenGL calls to on an OpenGL context, but that doesn't mean it's 3D data that you can spin around (because it's a framebuffer, i.e., a raster image display)
17:44.49brlcadnice quote.. "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it."
17:44.53brlcadfrom Kernigan
17:45.09d-lolol
17:45.10brlcador this one, Einstein: "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."
17:47.13brlcadhah, fantastic...  "The end is the same for everybody. We're all worm food."
17:48.04archivistwas Kernigan responsible for the index entry for recursion in the C book
17:48.47archivistwhich of course points to the index page
17:48.47``Erikrecursion: see recursion. ?
17:49.35archivistindex at back og the second edition
17:49.52brlcadthis must be cool quote day
17:49.55brlcad"If you need to cut, there's no tool as good as a sharp knife. If you need to turn a screw, a sharp knife probably isn't the right tool. If you have a guy who's a sharp knife, and you're using him to turn screws, maybe the problem isn't him. Maybe the problem is you."
17:50.39``Erikcool, where's that from?
17:51.25louipcthat is a good one
17:51.31brlcadrandom /. user quote
18:03.01starseekerhmm -  "imperfection is the greatness of man"
18:03.20starseekernot sure if it makes sense, but it sounds deep
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18:30.35bjorkintoshayn rand will strongly disagree.
18:32.40CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34044 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/gqa.c: Added code to free rtip.
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21:22.38starseekeris mildly bemused by the slashdot discussion of quirky programmers
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21:41.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34045 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/README: Add a few notes on the current state of the STEP libraries. Since things are now passing distcheck, pass the baton over to the 'make functionality fixes and develop new functionality' folk.
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22:58.40bjorkintoshthere's another type besides the quirky?
23:14.11CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34046 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob fixed a tiny memory leak in gqa making it free the rtip
23:33.18brlcadstarseeker: you did more than just take screenshots and blend them -- set up the whole framework for the design
23:33.22brlcadthanks
23:34.10brlcadi just did the typesetting
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00:02.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34047 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
00:02.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: annotate keith bowman's first commit. he fixed mged's qorot command to properly
00:02.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: rotate around a vector. this fixes sf bug 2663014 (qorot does not rotate around
00:02.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: vector) reported by dwayne. was previously rotating around the origin instead
00:02.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: of the provided xyz point.
00:04.55CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34048 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: additional info about indianlarry
00:21.23CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34049 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (archer/archer.bat mged/mged.bat util/rtwizard.bat): bah, these weren't updated for release. *really* should not have version numbers in these files, nor should it be necessary to set BRLCAD_DATA even on Windows.
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01:15.40madantKernigan was a smart chap :)
01:16.04madantso was Gould : "We pass through this world but once. Few tragedies can be more extensive than the stunting of life, few injustices deeper than the denial of an opportunity to strive or even to hope, by a limit imposed from without, but falsely identified as lying within."
01:16.34madant"I am somehow less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops."
01:34.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34050 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
01:34.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: keith changed the rpp vertex ordering affecting typein and display with rpp's
01:34.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: now matching arb8 vertex ordering. this addresses an unexpected behavior bug
01:34.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: reported by dwaynelk in sf bug 2663183 (arb8/rpp vertex order different)
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01:39.51CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34051 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: keith fixed another bug reported by dwayne where the mirror command was incorrectly handling an rcc's radii resulting in non-perpendicular height vectors. this was reported in sf bug 2679693 (mirror error).
01:46.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34052 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
01:46.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: keith updated the clone command to utilize the same naming convention as
01:46.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: build_region. this implements a long standing request from dwayne to change
01:46.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: clone's naming conventions. implements sf bug/feature request 2663102 (clone
01:46.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: does not name correctly)
02:24.50CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34053 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: need a bot-nmg capability
02:26.28brlcad``Erik: irix posted a patch if you're interested in reviewing it.  quick read looks like a reject, but maybe you want to do something with it.
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08:28.49mafmhi
08:40.04brlcadhowdy!
08:45.37madanthi mafm
08:45.48madantthesis over ?
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10:40.06d-loMernin all!
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11:58.50brlcadhola
12:02.31d-lomornin brlcad, how goes it?
12:13.14brlcadgreat
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13:29.23``Erikhrm
13:29.53``Eriklooking at it now, brlcad, I think the data involved is either redundant or irrelevant
13:30.09``ErikI'll put together a semi-polite reject message
13:32.14brlcadnods
13:34.53``Erikok, closed
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13:37.35``Erikhrm, shoulda probably said something about vetting intended changes by me before submitting, oh well
13:37.53``Erikhe did dot the t's and cross the i's, though, I'm kinda impressed
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13:45.00``Erik4 lines of code, but he put in a copyright header (a little wrong with his starting date) and documented the function
13:45.40``Erikneeds to think of a good right-sized task for the dude
14:00.46``Erikthought the mged -v woulda done it, but 'svn diff' is elusive, I guess
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15:16.13brlcadmged -v should have done it, but was too much
15:16.33brlcadwasn't just the diff, couldn't make the mod itself either
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15:24.31dreevesI have removed all the memory allocation from the extude solid it would appear on my machine that I got about 521% increase in speed
15:24.43dreevesafter some clean up of the code I will submit a patch
15:26.33brlcadawesome!
15:26.43brlcadthat's closer to what I would have expected :)
15:27.07dreevesyeah that makes a little more since
15:27.27brlcadactually was expecting about an order of magnitude, but 5x is good too :)
15:27.28dreevesThat took me way longer than it should have a little rusty on the math
15:27.54dreevesIt maybe on a better pc
15:28.52dreevesOn my machine it is only about 13% slower than raytracing a rcc
15:29.58dreevesAlso maybe a little more improvement I have only addressed the memory stuff in the root finder there is still a one array being allocated in shoot which I will get rid of before I submit the patch
15:31.26brlcadah, yeah, there be more gains to be had then
15:32.22dreevesYeah I don't expect to out perform raytracing an rcc though, do you?
15:33.24dreeveseverything outside of the root finder only addressed about 7.5% of the total time before but of course that percentage is higher now
15:36.47``Erikno,he got the mod, he kept trying to do other crap, though
15:37.08brlcadshouldn't outperform it, rcc should be one quadratic polynomial
15:37.43``Erikhm, the root finder needs tlc, there're known issues with it
15:37.49``Erikiirc
15:38.13brlcadinteresting, http://gram.eng.uci.edu/~bobrow/papers_files/CAD_1985_NC_toolpath.pdf
15:38.22dreevesplus the end caps but still though I don't think it is going to get faster
15:39.25dreevesWell the root finder that extrude is using appears that only extrude is using it.  I might be missing something though but I couldn't find anything else in brlcad that called it
15:39.28``Erikbtw, hiya dreeves *wave* nice to meet an old developer, I'm one of the newer ones :)
15:39.43dreeveshi there
15:39.44``Erikhrm, there was a semi-generalized one that I believe tor used
15:40.02brlcadit is specific to extrude
15:40.16dreevesis that question?
15:40.37``Erikok, why would extrude not use the generalized one?
15:40.41brlcadit should have been moved up into src/librt/primitives, but was left out during the move
15:41.43brlcad``Erik: arbitrary order, libbn's is hard-coded to quintic order iirc
15:42.09``Erikhuh, I thoguth the bn one was A) in bu and B) fully gneralized (thus the fp fuzz errors)
15:42.44``Erikobviously, I'm not up to speed :) and aint' gonna be cuz I'm on vacation, later, ya'llz
15:43.04``Erikmissoura representin'
15:43.18brlcadit is generalized, just limited by array bounds (for performance and memory usage reasons)
15:43.58madant:) i remember it has good optimizations for quintic..
15:44.12madantbut i thought there was no generalized rootsolver in bn
15:44.54dreevesyeah I didn't see one
15:45.03dreevesnot in bn
15:45.31brlcadah right, it's still in librt
15:45.42brlcadbu has a few of the special cases
15:45.56brlcadsrc/librt/roots.c
15:46.13``Erikthat's wrong. I'll migrate it in a week or so if you don't wanna deal with it
15:46.23brlcadrt_poly_roots()
15:46.43``Erikfails the test of least surprise
15:47.13``Erikbut I
15:47.14brlcadit wasn't put in libbn because it wasn't/isn't fully generalized (as seen by various possible instabilities when the guesses are poor or the polynomial "hard")
15:47.27brlcadsimilar to the bezier solver
15:47.32``ErikI'm ignorin' all of this for a bit, got life to live :)
15:47.40madant:D
15:47.44``ErikSPRING BREAK! *takes off shirt and runs around*
15:48.12``Erikhappy st pattys day, ya'll
15:48.43brlcad``Erik: don't worry about migrating it, madant already did it
15:49.20brlcadstill waiting to be verified
15:49.34madantwhat about my last years patch :) regression tests over ?
15:49.56brlcadhm?
15:50.35brlcadit's not been regression tested yet, that's why it's still there .. it needs to be soon though
15:50.42``Erikaight, I may try to build a test suite when I get back, then
15:50.49``Erikremind me, though
15:51.02``Eriklike put a postit on my monitor
15:51.51``ErikI'm gonna bury myself in lithp web app stuff now and ignore irc
15:52.04madanthmm.. i could take another look at it if there is a problem after regression tests :) grr.. i will have to right :D
15:58.05madantgoing to sleep at 10 pm after a long long time :)
16:00.03brlcad:)
16:47.52dreevesSo got rid of the remaining allocs and now it is a little over 6x the speed of before
16:49.28dreevesCould probably optimize the math to improve speed but I think I will focus on getting things cleaned up so I can submit as a patch now...
16:50.33dreevesBTW I was wrong it is only about half the speed of the rcc I think I was remembering numbers when I rt'ed at a higher res
16:55.44brlcadI wouldn't be too suprised by rcc being 2x-10x.. big range, but not too horribly different (at least for simple sketch/extrusions)
16:56.27brlcadthe main difference would be that adding more rccs just increases time nearly linearly whereas more complex sketches increases non-linearly
16:56.40brlcadmultiple sketches is probably still just nearly linear though
16:57.11brlcadeither way pretty cool -- that would make bezeir's actually kinda practically useful now performance-wise
16:57.29dreevesdefinitly with some optimization that would be very true
16:58.02dreevesBut I think for now it has crossed the line performance-wise
16:58.41dreevesWhen I get it clean up I will put it on sf
16:59.09brlcadyeah, I wouldn't work too hard on it simply because it's a pita to create them interactively still -- the interactive sketcher sucks, you can make them more easily using code than you can interactively
16:59.16brlcadsounds good
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19:55.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34054 10/brlcad/trunk/db/ (Makefile.am goliath.asc): Add Goliath Tracked Mine model by Stephen Kennedy and Stephanie Weaver
20:20.58brlcadwoot
20:21.23brlcad(NEWS)
20:22.17brlcadshould also include another attribute on _GLOBAL that says that it's public domain and credit the museum
20:23.08brlcador at least reference them saying the original used as a measurement reference was located at the apg museum
21:45.18dreevesbrlcad do I need to perserve the oringinal function signatures in bezier_2d_insect in particular FindRoots and Bezier?
21:45.50dreevesI don't think anyone else is using those functions
21:53.02brlcadnope, those aren't public functions
21:53.07brlcadthey can be ripped a new one if need be
21:53.24brlcadgoes to embib a bit
22:04.52Ralithwe've got a goliath model now?
22:04.54Ralithawesome! :D
22:05.07Ralithsyncs svn
22:43.20bjorkintoshGoliath, on line.
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00:00.09Ralitha model of one of those would be pretty neat too.
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02:13.08dreevesI sent the patch to you brlcad I will work on pushing it to sf but I was having problems so decided to be lazy for now
02:13.18dreevesand send it directly to you
02:23.27dreevesok got it submitted to sourceforge
02:34.35brlcadnice, just saw it
02:35.09brlcaddidn't get anything direct though (at least not yet
02:35.29brlcadbut no matter, I see the tracker
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03:02.40starseeker<snort> they're already offering discounts to try and get people to come to SIGGRAPH 2009
03:03.11starseeker<sarcasm>wonder if perhaps they're worried about the economy...</sarcasm>
03:13.54dreevesSorry about that I guess I should have spent a little more effort figuring it out
03:13.55bjorkintoshare SIGGRAPH papers any good?
03:15.22dreevesthere is still room for improvement on the performance.  Actually lost 15% somewhere on the end maybe something for later...
03:16.49dreevesprobably move on to the NURBS stuff I suppose...although I think that is quite abit more involved.
03:22.53starseekerbjorkintosh:  yesh
03:22.55starseekerer yes
03:23.25starseekerall conferences will have ups and downs in paper quality, but SIGGRAPH has lots of very good papers
03:34.08bjorkintoshreally?
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07:21.29madantslept for 15 hours straight :O
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10:00.17madanthowdy mafm
10:55.36d-loMorning all.
10:55.56d-loBad traffic + thick fog = scary drive :/
10:59.53madantdoes not have a driving license :P
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11:08.02d-loHrm, lemme think:  Bad traffic + thick fog + no license = even scarier!!!
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11:28.52madantd-lo: :P true
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11:35.46mafm_hi
11:40.14madanthey :)
11:41.30madantfreaky way to do pull-ups :p http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/Queens-Palace-Pullup.html
11:42.44d-loJust goes to show how well proper incentive can motivate!
11:45.26d-loThis one looks strangely familiar...... http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/crossfit-AnzioAnnie.html  ;)
11:47.04brlcadit'd be a lot more impressive if he was doing them off the barrel tip :)
11:47.44d-loTrue, but with photoshot, anything is possible! :)
11:47.46brlcadthick fog + rowing = eerie cool row :)
11:48.01d-loYeah, i was wonding about that on the drive in :)  
11:48.18brlcadfortunately not all the crews have started so the traffic was pretty low
11:48.26madant:D
11:48.42d-lonice.  Do you compete or is it just for the halibut?
11:48.45brlcadit can get very scary
11:48.58brlcadI compete
11:49.13brlcaddo ocd and competitive to just paddle about
11:50.24madanthas a backwater district nearby :)
11:50.31d-loOn a somewhat related note, i found out that my Patriot can corner VERY well :)  90 degree curve came up on me a bit suddenly and I had to take it a bit faster than I wanted :)  Stiff suspension FTW.
11:50.49d-lo"every thing I know about performance driving I learned from Top Gear"  :)
11:51.14brlcadis starving
11:51.36brlcadmadant: those look like fun pull-ups actually
11:51.56brlcadI can see doing that
11:52.24madantyeah i mean height really doesnt matter ;) but a nice pic nevertheless :)
11:53.01madantI can do 20 .. ok 19 :P
11:53.27madantthough not confident about 20 at that height :)
11:54.04brlcadhehe, nice .. http://www.torch.aetc.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/061228-F-1936B-010.JPG
11:54.55d-lolol\
11:55.36d-lobrlcad:  If you can get to see the most recent Top Gear (the one where the road test the Ford Fiesta) then you really REALY should.
11:56.09d-loI laughed my throat raw.  That Humvee pic reminded me of it btw :)
11:57.18madantyikes.. :)
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12:18.41CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34055 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Added standard C++ library via LIBSTDCXX variable to build where needed.
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14:53.27brlcadmadant: woot, top 20 :)
14:54.33madanthuh /
14:56.15brlcadhttps://www.ohloh.net/p/brlcad/contributors
14:57.42madant:) aah.. it is going to get better ;)
14:58.25madantam sure i would have been way lower if they didn't only count number of commits :D
14:59.55brlcadI've been wanting to do some mega visualization at some point
15:02.06madantmega visualization ;) ?
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15:27.36dreeveshow does the stuff work we submit as a patch?  Does it get included in the next release or is somewhat unknown because someone needs to make time to look it over?
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15:36.41madantdreeves: depends on the type of patch i guess.. mostly it gets added to the trunk pretty fast once someone has a look at it .. some need a lot of regression tests and might take longer.. if the person submitting the patch has been given commit access then he is given the right to close the patch tracker as well.. brlcad would obviously be able to clarify all this better :)
15:46.49dreevesno big I was just curious if there was a formal process or if it was just somewhat loose.  I think what I submitted is fairly low priority because I would guess not many people are using that feature.  Also it is just a performance improvement.
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16:00.35brlcadmadant, yeah visualization kinda like the code storm, but actually somewhat more practical :)
16:01.30brlcaddreeves: the latter, one of the existing devs takes the time to review and test/evaluate the patch
16:04.33brlcadyeah, basically what madant said -- it's not at all a formalized process very much intentionally
16:06.47brlcadhighly formalization in open source projects is often a sign of a dying project, most operate under meritocratic and high-iteration agile practices (or at least gravitate towards them)
16:07.29dreevesYeah I'm not a big fan of very formalized process at all
16:07.49dreevesgood way to bring a project to it's knees
16:07.52brlcadthat said, yeah, your patch isn't what I'd call "high-priority" but it's actually very important because it's from a new contributor :)
16:08.06dreeves:)
16:08.37brlcadand it's not just a performance improvement, it's a _substantial_ performance improvement
16:08.40brlcad:)
16:09.25dreevesI think there is still room for more improvement but I want to get on to the high priority stuff I really just did that get warmed up
16:10.31dreevesI didn't want to start with something where I was trying to get familiar with what was what at the same time as tackling a tough problem i.e. NURBS
16:10.52brlcadnods
16:11.53madantbrlcad: hmm.. yeah it would be fun .. information visualization is always nice
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16:30.31brlcaddammit, sf.net is down right as I submit
16:30.50brlcad~ping sourceforge.net
16:30.51ibotpong sourceforge.net
16:34.30brlcadthere we go
16:35.29d-lo<PROTECTED>
16:35.30ibotpong sourceforge.net
16:35.44d-lo~google
16:35.45ibothmm... google is at http://www.yahoo.com
16:35.55brlcad~d-lo is a BRL-CAD developer
16:35.56ibotbrlcad: okay
16:36.05brlcad~d-lo
16:36.06ibothmm... d-lo is a BRL-CAD developer
16:38.19dreevesdidn't mean to include that other stuff I forgot about messing around that
16:41.52dreevesactually only 3 files should have been in there
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16:47.00brlcaddreeves: I know, it was obvious
16:47.00brlcadi wouldn't have even mentioned it save for the other issues
16:47.00brlcadall minor, but patch acceptance generally puts it in the submitter's hands to fix it so the issues are resolved earlier instead of later
16:47.01brlcad(as the goal is to give commit)
16:49.06dreevesabsolutely yeah don't let me slide on anything I want comply no problem
16:49.35starseekerA bat hanging on to the space shuttle as it launches... awesome :-)
16:49.43dreevesI tried to follow the style but obviously hasn't been the style I have been follow as of late so habits and such
16:50.26dreevesSo do I just re attach a new patch or is it a new submit altogether
16:51.08dreevesbtw it is only 3 files
16:53.13d-loHrm, if a small peice of foam can cause a catastrophic loss of the orbiter.... i wonder what fate that bat has condemned them to? :/
16:54.41dreevesI'm sure the "small" piece of foam was considerably larger than the bat
16:55.45dreeveswas the brace style the only thing you noticed when reviewing the code?
16:55.47starseekeryeah, no one is worried that the bat will cause launcher damage
16:56.35starseekerwonders if there is a bat version of the Darwin award...
16:56.51dreevesHowever I pretty sure the bat didn't make it
16:57.08d-loDunno, sounds like the basis for Samuel Jacksons next movie:  Bats on a Shuttle...
16:59.13brlcaddreeves: not a problem .. there are probably four distinct styles throughout the brl-cad sources -- just try to police new code and hit up files for consistency as they are worked on
16:59.39brlcadmost of the files have issues, it'd takes many weeks of tedium to hit up everything (it can only partially be automated)
17:00.13dreevesok no problem
17:00.14brlcaddreeves: braces was the only stylistic thing I noticed that mattered
17:01.08brlcadthe other stylistic changes are not worth policing unless someone specifically wants to go on a rampage
17:01.41dreevesI was trying to follow the correct style but in my day job I use the other style so I will need to get the settings in my editor so I don't forget
17:01.42brlcador is just egregiously annoying like spaces before commas
17:01.50brlcadnods
17:01.56brlcadI use the other style on a few other projects
17:02.04dreeveshey the 30 setting that should should have been 64
17:02.05brlcadsome people have religion on one vs the other
17:02.20brlcadto me, it's just more important that the code is consistent
17:02.46dreevesYeah I'm not religious on that kind of stuff would rather spend my energy on more useful things
17:02.54brlcadminimally per-file consistent, ideally globally consistent (sans src/other)
17:02.56dreevesyes I agree
17:03.54dreevesthat setting was in the bezier_2d_isect.c before but if I'm to pre allocate the buffers then the setting needs to come from extude.c
17:05.48dreevesI tried to think of a way to get rid of it all together but at the time I was tired (no sleep in 30+ hours) and I couldn't think of anything.  So I gave in a moved the setting to extude.c and passed into bezier_2d_isect.c
17:07.02dreevesI was just messing around and wanted to see what it would like like if I changed the setting to 30 vs 64.  Didn't make much of an impact on either.  I'm sure it would with a more complex shape
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17:15.02brlcadyeah, it sounds like the maximum number of intersects through the sketch
17:15.11brlcadjust at a quick glance
17:15.22brlcadif that's true, even 64 is kinda sketchy (no pun intended)
17:15.41brlcadsome simple grided sketch would blow out the limit
17:19.33dreevesno i don't think that is what that number is
17:20.20dreevesI think that is the number of times to subdivide the curve in order to resolve down to a single segment of the curve to find the particular intersection
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17:26.10brlcadah, hm
17:26.33brlcadthen that sounds particularly asinine
17:26.52brlcadespecially if it has a ton of control points
17:27.08brlcadunless that's between each pair of control points
17:28.19brlcadprobably should be based adaptive based on the amount of curvature in a given piecewise region
17:30.12dreevesyeah checks the curvature
17:31.01dreevesit tries to subdivide to get down to little or no curvature but at some point it stops which the maxlevel setting
17:33.18dreeveslet me restate
17:34.53brlcadaha.. so then after a given minimized curvature, it then performs MAXDEPTH samples of that piece
17:34.57brlcadthat's not so bad then
17:35.11brlcadprobably even overkill depending on that curvature setting
17:35.36dreevesexactly that is why I was playing around with the number a little
17:36.09dreevesno I misspoke
17:36.19dreevesI was saying exactly to the overkill part
17:36.40dreevesbut the algorithm doesn't exactly work that way
17:38.06dreevesit divides the control polygon down to attempt to consider a single segment of the polygon but it also looks at curvature to make sure it is only considering a case where the ray will only cross that segment once
17:38.40dreevesif the curvature is not "flat" enough it will continue to subdivide
17:40.26dreeveshowever it gives on continuing to subdivide if it reaches the max subdivides
17:41.30dreevesthe is actually no limit on how far it will subdivide
17:41.56dreevesit only consider the depth after it has gotten to a single segment of the control polygon
17:42.42dreevesI can imagine some situations that could cause it problems but I think they are pretty extreme
17:44.43dreevesIf I right I think control polygons 2 to 32nd power is where you will see the algorithm start to have problems.  Well maybe a few powers lower but in that area
17:45.43dreevesno actually 64th power
17:53.33dreevesHope what I wrote makes since here reading backup I realize I'm dropping words...
17:54.16dreevesOf course I could be completely off track but that is what I think is going on
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18:24.04brlcaddreeves: you could toss in a zero-tolerance check on the polygon points -- if they're all within computation tolerance, halt
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19:09.54CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34056 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/shoot.c: Modified rt_res_pieces_clean() to skip uninitialized rt_piecestate structures.
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20:09.27dreevesbrlcad had to go to the office after my comments so I didn't see what you wrote a response if anything
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20:31.06kanzureconsiders working on a project listed on http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009/Project_Ideas
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21:03.04brlcadah, dreeves left
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21:03.07brlcadkanzure: glad to hear it!
21:06.29kanzurebrlcad: Should I just submit a project proposal, or how does this work?
21:10.57madantcongrats :)
21:19.51madanthmm.. and they have changed the timeline as brlcad predicted :D
21:21.33brlcadkanzure: discussion
21:22.19brlcadwhat do you want to work on?  why?  who are you?  (the 2cent gist version)  why do you want to work on brl-cad, what are your goals, etc
21:22.34brlcadmadant: :)
21:25.08madantnext 10 days are going to be fun on the channel and mailing list :)
21:29.18madantbrlcad: gsoc blog says "larger student peer groups in each project" ;)
21:41.43kanzurehm, it's entirely possible that you guys don't remember me :)
21:41.46kanzurehttp://heybryan.org/om.html
21:42.06kanzurehttp://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/gears/gears.html
21:42.43kanzureinterchangeable/intercompatible parts and automatic instruction generators, researcher here at the Automated Design Lab at UT Austin :-)
21:43.45kanzureso in particular I'd probably end up working on the parametric library or web thingy for design repository, in particular my background has been in open source hardware design packaging (much like "dot deb" and "dot rpm" files except, uh, for hardware)
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21:47.36kanzuresome stuff I've recently been doing (sadly, it's not with BRLCAD): http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/pythonocc/2009-03-15_3.png
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21:51.47brlcadoh yeah, I guess I didn't announce it here yet :)
21:51.51brlcadwe made it into gsoc 2009
21:52.11brlcadhurrahs
21:52.35kanzurehttp://heybryan.org/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/2009-03-18_spiral.jpg (warning: face)
21:52.43kanzurebrlcad: remember my work on spirals?
21:52.45kanzure:)
21:52.51kanzurenow this just needs to be tested in real life.
21:53.02brlcad<PROTECTED>
21:53.13kanzureDNS-wise?
21:53.30brlcadhah, yes
21:53.35brlcadresolves to 127.0.0.1
21:53.47_sushi_resolves to 127.0.0.1 too
21:54.02kanzurehttp://66.112.232.182/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/2009-03-18_spiral.jpg (warning: face)
21:54.05kanzuretry that?
21:54.24brlcadkanzure: and to answer your question, I did remember the name, just not the connection
21:54.29kanzureokay
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21:56.31brlcadmadant: hm, that's actually an interesting quote on the blog .. have to talk to lh about it
21:57.52brlcadbz's going to test almost the exact opposite mentoring-wise as our experience indicated that we needed fewer students in order to better engage them
21:58.03madantkanzure: what does pythonocc do ?
21:58.04brlcadprobably just that there's a sweet spot that orgs have to find
21:58.08kanzuredo mentoring organizations have a minimum team size?
21:58.16brlcadnope
21:58.17kanzuremadant: pythonOCC == python bindings to OpenCASCADE
21:58.20kanzurehttp://pythonocc.org/
21:58.24madantah.. :)
21:58.32kanzureso I was just putting together pythonOCC + the HeeksCAD interface together
21:58.35kanzuresince they both use wxWidgets
21:59.43madantk.. opencascade is pretty neat ;)
22:00.03kanzurebut the API *sucks*. I mean, coming from the perspective of trying to figure out how to write a simpler wrapper for it, or something, it's just huge and hairy
22:00.12brlcadthinks they still fail the freeness test
22:00.26brlcadopen yes, just not free
22:00.33archivistkanzure, author of HeeksCAD often is in #cam
22:00.42kanzurearchivist: thank you for the heads up
22:01.06madantfreeness maybe :) but not many CAE tools in open source scene otherwise right ?
22:01.08kanzurebrlcad: apparently they are changing their licensing actually
22:01.35brlcadthey've said that for a couple years
22:01.39kanzureoh :(
22:01.58brlcadand they did tweak it once about two years ago, as it was originally entirely ambiguous
22:02.35madantthey had BRL-CAD in one of their CDs  or something if i remember correctly ?
22:02.45brlcaddid they?
22:02.48brlcadthat'd surprise me
22:02.50kanzurewhy?
22:02.56kanzureI mean, why would they put it on?
22:02.58brlcador at least be news to me
22:03.21madantlet me see :)
22:03.27kanzurewe were hoping that pythonocc would make it into gsoc, but that didn't happen this year
22:03.37kanzurebut brlcad is a good alternative, heh
22:03.47brlcadI'm all for competition and collaboration, but that project has just smelled bad from the beginning
22:05.12brlcadseemed more of a failed commercial attempt that was dumped onto a website with an "Open" label slapped onto it in order to try to attract some business, then when that didn't work, they kept tweaking the license to try to actually open it up "just enough" to get some revenue through providing commercial API support
22:05.13madantah maybe it was the CAELinux dvd :)
22:05.21kanzurethe giant DVD library? :)
22:06.01kanzureah, what I think I meant to say was that OpenCASCADE recently became "open" and "free" enough to warrant debian packaging and inclusion into the main repositories
22:06.05brlcadi could be completely wrong in that perception, but i was pretty excited to try and join our geometry engines several years back only to be sorely disappointed on many fronts
22:06.09kanzure(6.3.0 hit the repositories last week)
22:06.27kanzurebrlcad: can you describe what happened on that front in particular?
22:07.58brlcadkanzure: well part of what I just mentioned, that their entire intentions haven't felt like they're with any actual regard or interest with F/OSS development of CAD
22:08.02madanthmmm opencascade in debian and not in non-free ? i remember somebody was trying to package salome and opencascade a year ago..
22:08.34kanzurethings that sound interesting: 1.3, 1.7, 1.10, 2.8 (from the wiki page)
22:08.38brlcaddoing only the minimum they can get away with to conjure up business, not being open to the community at large
22:08.47kanzurebrlcad: no, I mean the joining of the geometry engines :)
22:08.54kanzuresorry for the ambiguity
22:08.59brlcadI mean that too
22:09.13kanzureoh
22:09.15brlcadthere's no technical discussion to be had if there are legal issues and project management issues
22:09.28kanzurewere their headers weird or something?
22:09.29kanzureah, I see.
22:09.40madantbrlcad: news coming up at main page ;) ?
22:10.17brlcadtheir license originally was completely proprietary iirc, the only thing "open" about them was that you could get the source code (but you couldn't redistribute) and they had the word "Open" in their name
22:10.29brlcadmadant: mailing list first, but yeah
22:10.33brlcadprobably later today
22:11.11kanzurewhere is the brlcad-devel mailing list located? is it on the sf.net server?
22:11.17brlcadyes, sf
22:11.58kanzurehttp://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/brlcad-devel
22:11.59kanzureaha
22:13.58louipcheh opennurbs seems kind of closed when it comes to the community too
22:14.07Ralithyay, gsoc!
22:15.04madanthey Ralith, howdy
22:15.14Ralithhullo
22:15.31kanzurelouipc: isn't that the blender module?
22:16.01Ralithso I know we've got plenty of engs in here
22:16.08Ralithanyone have any thoughts on the hp50g calculator?
22:16.42kanzurehuh, you guys were solving constraint satisfaction problems with graphs
22:16.44RalithI discovered my ti-89's not talking with my computer anymore.
22:16.47madanthas never used a graphing calculator :D
22:16.57kanzurehas done some work on graph grammars for graph-based design automation.
22:17.08kanzurehttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Libpg_:_A_parametrics/constraint_library
22:17.12louipckanzure: no that's the rhino 3d nurbs library
22:17.14louipchttp://www.opennurbs.org/
22:17.31madantkanzure: graphs .. well my initial idea was that bgl would be useful.. but now i think maybe not..
22:17.44kanzurebgl?
22:18.03madantboost graph library
22:18.10kanzureso, our lab uses software called "GraphSynth"
22:18.17kanzureit's a graph grammar solver for engineering problems, more or less
22:18.28madantboost's hypergraph support the last time i checked was not that great..
22:18.29kanzureone student is doing gear-based automated design and optimization, another is doing linkages, and another is doing product disassembly
22:18.41louipckanzure: brl-cad requires opennurbs
22:18.45kanzureso it might be interesting to integrate the graph functionality into libpg
22:19.15madantkanzure: what exactly do u mean by graph functionality ?
22:19.19archivisthmm gears
22:19.31kanzurearchivist: did you see the link?
22:19.49kanzurehttp://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/gears/gears.html
22:20.10kanzuremadant: I mean the graphsynth classes for the representation of graphs, generating thousands of solutions for a given graph, and so on
22:20.37kanzure(just the other day we were generating a thousand 'design solutions' from a given 'specification graph' (these aren't the actual terribly convoluted names they have, but that's what they are))
22:20.51madant:)
22:21.06madantjust checking out the graphsynth page
22:21.45kanzurethink of it as a search-and-replace system that goes through the entire tree of possible substitutions given a set of 'replace rules' (a "rule set")
22:22.02louipcthose are some funky gears
22:22.07kanzureit's a hack to glxgears :)
22:22.29*** join/#brlcad Dr_Phreakenstein (n=phreak@216.151.24.198)
22:22.43kanzureI was going to write a gear visualizer/CAD-generator with pythonocc
22:22.49Raliththere's a cool xscreensaver module that generates very (infinitely?) long serieses of properly interlocking gears
22:22.54kanzurebut I haven't got around to that yet
22:23.00madanthmm. and the design is effectively a 'configuration' expressed in XML ?
22:23.02kanzureRalith: oh? I've never seen that, is that in the standard X11 package?
22:23.05kanzuremadant: yes
22:23.08Ralithno idea
22:23.13Ralithit might not even be on my system
22:23.21archivistglxgears
22:23.23kanzureRalith: ah, maybe it's in the xscreensaver package (sorry, didn't read)
22:23.24RalithI always set my screensavers to random, so I can't help beyond that
22:23.29kanzureglxgears doesn't do interlocking of infinitely many gears
22:23.35Ralithmight even haev only been in the freebsd distrib
22:23.42Ralithyeah this is much more advanced than glxgears
22:23.46Ralithnicer looking models, too
22:23.49kanzureanyway, it sucks because it's not actual CAD
22:23.55kanzureit's just a cylinder and some OpenGL calls
22:24.03kanzurekinda useless for lab research :)
22:24.12RalithI wouldn't think parametric gears would be very hard
22:24.17kanzurenot at all
22:24.17madantkanzure: does graphsynth support hypergraphs ?
22:24.31kanzuremadant: please excuse me, I'm not as well versed in hypergraphs as I should be
22:24.36madantnods
22:24.38kanzureis this where there are vertices with multiple edges?
22:24.45Ralithhm
22:24.55Ralithbrlcad: does BRL-CAD have any sort of geargen tool?
22:25.05bjorkintoshgeargen? gear generator?
22:25.07Ralithyeah
22:25.08kanzureyes
22:25.13kanzuremadant: is that what a hypergraph is?
22:25.14Ralithokay, cool
22:25.23kanzureRalith: no, I wasn't answering you
22:25.26Ralithoh
22:25.45RalithI ask because we've got weird things like tire generators and fence generators but I don't recall ever seeing a gear generator
22:25.45madantkanzure: the hypergraph idea is basically that you can have edges between edges..
22:25.58bjorkintoshfence generator?
22:26.00bjorkintoshwhoa!
22:26.03Ralithchain link fence
22:26.07bjorkintoshis in white picket ...
22:26.08bjorkintoshoh okay.
22:26.13kanzuremadant: blah? wha?
22:26.13bjorkintosh*as in.
22:26.46kanzuremadant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergraph
22:26.48kanzure"In mathematics, a hypergraph is a generalization of a graph, where edges can connect any number of vertices. "
22:26.52kanzurein which case, yes
22:29.19louipchmm! those generators used to be prefixed with mk_
22:29.32louipcnow I don't know what the generators are blah
22:29.48kanzurejust grep over the source for 'gear' :-)
22:29.53kanzuregrep -H -I -R "gear" *
22:30.05madantkanzure: if you consider a constraint network.. it eventually has lets say a set of nodes( variables) and constraints( edges between two or moredependent variables) but constraints might depend on other constraints as well.. so you have hyperedges connecting two or more edges which can effectively be broken down into edges between many vertices..
22:30.31kanzureI see
22:30.56Ralithkanzure: hehe
22:30.59louipckanzure: that's not very efficient, and doesn't help those who only installed the binary
22:31.06madantconsider a constraint which depends on two other constraints for instance ..
22:31.11kanzuremadant: right
22:31.27madantso graphsynth supports hypergraphs ?
22:32.47kanzurethe answer is complicated. yes in the sense that the constraint network can be represented, no in the sense that the way that you solve it is not by treating it as a hypergraph
22:32.50kanzureI don't know if that makes sense
22:33.19kanzuresee, when a constraint network would be added into graphsynth, the "rules" would be called forth to solve a particular subset of the graph
22:33.32kanzurethen it would be possible, say, to find the next part of the constraint network needs to be updated
22:33.36kanzuredependent on the last modification that was made
22:33.53kanzurewhich is essentially solving the same thing, no?
22:34.20madantlooking at the grammar..
22:34.35kanzurewell that's the thing, the grammars are hand-crafted
22:34.51kanzurelike I said, one researcher has made a grammar for gear generation, another for linkages (or is working on it), another for product disassembly
22:35.22kanzure(and there's a few others- one for how to tie a tie, electronics (filter circuits), and stuff I'm forgetting)
22:35.42madantkanzure: i meant the basic designGraph class
22:36.29madantwhat are the node classes ?
22:36.48kanzurevertices.
22:36.58kanzurewhat are you asking? the name of the node class is 'node' IIRC
22:37.14madanti mean they directly correlate with the variables right ?
22:37.48kanzureuhrm, sort of. each node has a list of labels, and it's possible for a node to only have one label, so in this case that label might be a variable related to the constraint expression, yeah
22:38.11louipcstarseeker: should src/libged/tire.c be removed since it's already in src/shapes/tire.c?
22:38.59madantah.. so designGraph is basically an implementation of a directed graph right ? but hypergraphs are not effectively reducible to directed graphs
22:39.27kanzuredirected means that edges point in a certain direction
22:39.33kanzurebut in this case, edges are bidirectional
22:39.51kanzureI mean, each node has a list of the edges that are connected to it
22:40.32brlcadoof, turn my head for just a few minutes..
22:40.45madant:D
22:43.17brlcadlouipc: mcneal & assoc. were very upfront from the very beginning that there was no support, no community, and a simple PD license, and open about the fact that their intent was more converters and that they have no intention of helping folks use it for analytic or modeling purposes .. big difference in intent and flexibility
22:43.58madantkanzure: consider this hypergraph ( vertices : A,B,C,D,E,F Edges/Constraints: A perp. B, Cperp. D, E parallel F if A perp. B and C perp. D else E perp. F) how would this be represented in graphsynth
22:44.08madant6 variables and 3 constraints
22:45.05kanzureI would have to play around with possible representation methods :)
22:45.14kanzureone idea that comes to mind is using nodes for perpendicularity/parallelism
22:45.16brlcadkanzure: 404 on http://66.112.232.182/~bbishop/docs/gears/gears.html
22:45.31kanzureso if two nodes are connected by "parallel" or "perpendicular", then that's that.
22:46.05brlcadRalith: don't think so, but pretty simple to create with the pattern tool .. something I did in a couple minutes a couple years ago here: http://brlcad.org/tmp/gear/
22:46.30brlcadbjorkintosh: there's a picket fence generator too
22:46.43kanzureah, you were the one who did /tmp/gear
22:46.46Ralithhm
22:46.48kanzureremembers seeing that a few weeks ago
22:47.17Ralithnot the most gearlike, but I imagine that's not a limitation of the system
22:47.23brlcadlouipc: ls src/shapes
22:47.35madantkanzure: just describe the new graph for me ?
22:47.42bjorkintoshhaha
22:47.46bjorkintoshwho put these things in there, brlcad?
22:48.19brlcadlouipc: look at the implementation of src/shapes/tire.c .. ged_tire()
22:48.26madantkanzure: u mean two nodes and multiple edges between them ?
22:49.06madantkanzure: in that case? lets say the nodes are P(perpendicularity) and U ( parallel)  .. how do u model the third constraint ?
22:49.21kanzuremadant: what does the if/then statement signify? "if A per. B" does that mean "if A perp. B is possible" ?
22:49.48brlcadkanzure: /tmp/gear was a quick example for someone based on known curvature parameters, forget who though
22:50.04madantkanzure: if A perp. B is satisfied
22:50.15kanzurethen that should be in the grammar rules
22:50.28brlcadbjorkintosh: various developers -- creating a procedural modeling tool that generates something is actually a great way to become familiar with the code base
22:50.34kanzureit would be a new rule: "if you see this graph structure, then make this modification"
22:50.48bjorkintoshyou don't say.
22:50.53starseekerhas considered making a gear generator, but coils were more manual labor for a usable result and less tractable to creation via tools like clone
22:50.56kanzurein particular it would be, using the model I suggested off the top of my head, "if you see A-perp-B (vertices: A, perp, B), then do blah blah blah"
22:51.11kanzureerm, sorry, vertices: A, perpSOME_ID_NUMBER, B
22:51.21kanzurethe perpendicularity between the two is supposedly unique :-)
22:51.26brlcadso we often have new developers try to write an app that makes something (of their choice), they end up learning some of libbu, libbn, librt, libwdb and we end up with a simple tool that generates some shape procedurally usually
22:51.30starseekergears will probably come later, but the variety is amazing in gears and much thought would be needed to create a sufficiently general framework
22:51.34madantkanzure: k :)
22:51.42kanzurestarseeker: oh?
22:51.51kanzurestarseeker: that's kind of the work that I'm supposed to be doing right now for the lab
22:52.05kanzurein particular, I'm also supposedly coming up with a way to display helical gears, worm gears, bevel gears, etc. etc.
22:52.11starseekercooool :-)
22:52.11Ralithstarseeker: isn't most of the variety just in the details of the tooth shape?
22:52.27kanzureand I get to ignore tooth shape (more or less)- which I know you guys are going to hate me for
22:52.31starseekerRalith:  tooth shape, tooth spacing, overall gear shape, gear interior...
22:52.40brlcade.g., I wrote the chain link 'fence' tool probably a decade ago -- it comes in handy for generating scenes for something that would otherwise be very painstaking to model by hand  (it generates a physically accurate chain link fence with all the bends and individual wires)
22:52.42kanzuremadant: I think it can be useful for parametrics. I'll definitely talk it over with some labmates soon.
22:53.13madantkanzure: so effectively the constraint graph in itself does not represent the problem entirely ?
22:53.23Ralithstarseeker: doesn't strike me as terribly hard to abstract.
22:53.40brlcadyou probably have starseeker drooling now .. he's been talking about gears and coils for a while :)  (and now has the latter mostly working)
22:53.44kanzuremadant: maybe. I'm still not sure- why is there an if/then in your constraint specification?
22:53.59starseekersticks tounge out at brlcad
22:54.13kanzurestarseeker: you should definitely check out the code in the directory I keep linking to
22:54.19madantkanzure: it is a possible logical constraint right :)
22:54.19kanzurehttp://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/gears/
22:54.27starseekerRalith:  It isn't hard to abstract - that's one of the reasons it's a good candidate for a tool
22:54.33starseekerlooks
22:54.53madantsince constraints effectively have two states : only constraints possible between them are in essence logical
22:54.54kanzuremadant: can you give me an example of a situation where I inadvertedly used a logical constraint in a CAD app without perhaps knowing it?
22:55.10starseekerkanzure:  Can't see it from here - I'll have to look later
22:55.21kanzurestarseeker: blah, some of you are unable to load the pages, while others in this channel can
22:55.24kanzurewtf?
22:55.57madantkanzure: :) am not really sure if any CAD application supports it.. I mean i have only worked with CATIA and it doesn't..
22:56.08Ralithstarseeker: well, what did you mean by "much thought would be needed to create a sufficiently general framework"?
22:56.09starseekerRalith:  a lot of the work involved with a gear tool would be identifying what the standard methods are for specifying gear type, size, etc. and wiring up the logic to generate the proper geometry based on those numbers
22:56.30kanzureyay
22:56.34Ralithyeah, I imagine it would be mostly research
22:56.35kanzurestarseeker: we should definitely collaborate on this
22:56.35starseekerfor each gear type, there may be a whole sub-set of specifications to look at
22:56.39madantkanzure: but not sure if many CAD applications support it internally.. will have to think of a case :)
22:56.41Ralithit sounds ilke an interesting task, though
22:56.46kanzureRalith: I'm working with somebody who has done most of that work
22:56.49kanzurethat research work, I mean
22:56.58Ralithkanzure: cool; has he published his findings anywhere?
22:57.03kanzurepaper in progress
22:57.04kanzure:)
22:57.10starseekerkanzure: It'll be a while before I can devote much time to it - I've got other more pressing tasks :-/
22:57.17Ralithlet me know when it's up
22:57.19RalithI might just write this
22:57.20madantkanzure: how many people are working with parametrics and constraints at UT ?
22:57.37kanzuremadant: I don't know anybody who is explicitly working on that problem. :(
22:57.38kanzureit's so sad
22:57.49brlcadkanzure: I believe unigraphics can get you into some situations where you use constraints implicitly
22:57.51kanzureI guess there's me.
22:58.16brlcadit's got a red-light/green-light to let you know if you're fully constrained or under/over too, interesting concept
22:58.33starseekerRalith:  then for each gear type, you have to think about precisely what geometry you want to use to represent it.  For example, would it be better to use sketches for gear patterns that can be represented as extrusions, or should such gears be combinations of arbs and tgcs?
22:58.43kanzureyes, I've seen something like that in Solidworks re: red/green light for over/under constrained
22:58.49starseekerextrusions would do for a lot of types, but not all
22:58.59madantbrlcad: i like the similar feature in catia sketcher.. where they show u overconstrained and underconstrained and correctly constrained elements in different colours
22:59.06Ralithyeah, I realized that
22:59.09kanzurestarseeker: in my case, the generated CAD file would have to be dependent on the variables that the optimization engine is spitting out
22:59.12Ralithwe can't twist extrusions yet, can we?
22:59.14kanzureso that kind of solves that problem eh?
22:59.22kanzurebut makes for a perhaps overly constrained gear generator in the end of course :)
22:59.36brlcadhas wanted similar lights for constraining once it's all working, but even now for overlap reporting
22:59.55starseekerkanzure:  In part.  You also want to be able to manually specify gears from the command line (or, better, from within MGED) using standard parameters
23:00.00kanzureright
23:00.05kanzureno argument there.
23:00.16Ralithsome sort of extrude along a path describing rotation as well as direction; is there a name for that?
23:00.20madantah.. so it is effectively : if ( constraint1 = true , constraint 2= true .... ) then constraints=true ;) hypegraph :D
23:00.20kanzuremadant: so was your logic constraint spec an imaginary one? :)
23:00.35starseekerRalith: sounds like sweep
23:00.39Raliththat's it
23:00.44Ralithwe don't have that yet, right?
23:00.47starseekerright
23:00.55Ralith'cuz that would make things easier.
23:01.00starseekerindeed
23:01.02kanzuremadant: yeah, the solutions would be those graphs where "all constraints have been satisfied" (or eliminated, or completely replaced, or something)
23:01.32madantkanzure: yep :)
23:01.41kanzurewhat would BRLCAD do with multiple solutions to a constraints satisfaction problem anyway?
23:01.46Ralithin fact, I'm not sure how you'd represent those twisted gears with simple operations on primitives--though I'm no modeler.
23:01.53kanzurewould it let the user pick from a list ? is that how this goes?
23:02.07starseekertwisted gears?  like on oil rig drilling?
23:02.13RalithI dunno about oil rigs
23:02.13starseekeryeah, those would be a problem
23:02.15kanzurehelical gears?
23:02.18madantyeah the idea is to present the user with the range of options..
23:02.26RalithI saw these in a lathe's gearbox
23:02.28madantasking him for either further constraints or values
23:02.48starseekerruns through the primitives in his mind...
23:02.54Ralithimagine taking a normal gear with fine teeth, then twistingthe top and bottom half in opposite directions
23:03.03Ralithsuch that the teeth are no longer parallel to the axis
23:03.12*** join/#brlcad Dr_Phreakenstein (n=phreak@216.151.24.198)
23:03.16starseekerOh, that's less of a problem
23:03.26Raliththey're used to increase contact area between the gears
23:03.38kanzuremadant: so I guess all that I need to do now is figure out how to make grammar rules for solving constraints problems
23:03.48kanzureand then get the professor to put up a real GPL license for graphsynth
23:03.55kanzureand then integrate the code and go from there :p
23:04.38madantkanzure: i will read up on graphsynth today .. is there any documentation other than http://www.me.utexas.edu/~adl/graphsynth/
23:05.43kanzurenot really.
23:05.54kanzurethere's some related stuff here: heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/repo/
23:06.04kanzuresome example graphs of designs: http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/repo/2009-02-20_FS/
23:06.14starseekerI was thinking of connections like those visible in page two of this patent:  http://www.google.com/patents?id=9WEUAAAAEBAJ
23:06.32kanzuremadant: this might be helpful, some powerpoints? http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/repo/presentations/
23:06.37madantkanzure: :( i don't have access to windows :P
23:06.48Ralithstarseeker: those count as gears?
23:06.59starseekerIt's remotely possible that some application of tgc subtractions could produce that sort of effect...
23:07.12kanzuremadant: there should be some odf presentations there, and if not, don't worry- I don't have access to windows either :)
23:07.16starseekerRalith:  they can.  It's called a twisted prism
23:07.23Ralithsounds... arcane.
23:07.26Ralithwhat're they used for?
23:07.40starseekerLots of HP printer cartridges have used it
23:07.49madantnah.. i meant the actual graphsynth program
23:07.52RalithI mean I can see in the drill application it would keep the connections tight
23:07.57Ralithbut in gears?
23:08.08starseekerit has the advantage of the turning mechanism also pulling the component toward the socket
23:08.10kanzuremadant: nope.
23:08.26starseekerRalith:  hang on, I'll see if I can find a picture
23:08.29kanzurebtw, I've been able to compile it on monodevelop under linux
23:09.12brlcadkanzure: how long ago was dns changed?
23:09.18brlcad(on heybryan.org)
23:09.21kanzurebrlcad: it wasn't! :)
23:09.27kanzureI mean, I've never set it to 127.0.0.1
23:09.34kanzureand it hasn't been changed recently
23:09.46brlcadthen you have a bad name server somewhere in there or an expired name or something..
23:09.57kanzurehrm.
23:10.01madanthmm.. this is interesting : http://minion.sourceforge.net/
23:10.07kanzurebut then why doesn't the IP address work?
23:10.27Ralithheybryan.org works for me
23:10.58madantworks for me too @opendns
23:11.12kanzurehaha, somebody's using opendns? :)
23:11.16Ralith:P
23:11.25Ralithis using level3's servers
23:11.32starseekerRalith:  not ideal, but http://www.google.com/patents?id=dGyEAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA37&dq=twisted+prism+gear+helical&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=1_1
23:11.32brlcadkanzure: ah, there's your problem
23:11.37brlcadall four of your name servers are dead
23:11.56kanzurebut then what about you being unable to use my IP to access the same content?
23:12.08starseekerRalith:  element 37a
23:12.08kanzuremadant: so, minion spits out a list of solutions?
23:12.13brlcadlooks like afraid.org lost their name
23:12.22Ralithstarseeker: yeah, I saw... isn't that another interlock?
23:12.32kanzurehttp://minion.sourceforge.net/gsoc/index.html
23:12.41starseekerRalith:  It's a combination of interlock and driver
23:12.43Ralithor is 39a a matching gear
23:12.55madantnot sure.. just came across it :) scalability seems to be one of their great aims ;)
23:13.01starseekeryes, 39a is the matching socket
23:13.05Ralithsocket?
23:13.13Ralithstill not a gear, then
23:13.29starseekermany of these gear types have helical components, but some of them get rotation only from that twisted prism
23:13.36Ralithwell, either way, it's an interesting shape
23:13.42kanzuremadant: it's weird, they seem to be about visualization of results? wtf
23:13.45Ralithand apparently one we can't model.
23:14.18starseekerI doubt it.  I've been trying to envison some sort of tgc subtraction which could do it, but I doubt it
23:14.46Ralithwould a sweep cover those?
23:14.58starseekerIf sufficiently general, yes
23:15.14RalithI'm guessing sweeps are pretty nontrivial to implement, then.
23:15.23Ralithseems very useful, though...
23:15.42starseekeryes and yes :-)
23:16.03madantkanzure: ? visualization
23:16.08kanzurein their gsoc page
23:16.43madantah those are just their ideas page right :)
23:18.00madanthmm they have a solver independent modeling language too.. nice .. my idea for libpc is somewhat the same in the long run.. i mean multiple solvers for the same constraint network
23:18.47starseekerWell, enough tgc playing with an arb6 MIGHT produce something interesting, but I don't think it can do it
23:18.54kanzureshouldn't it just implicitly find all possible solutions, madant ?
23:19.22madantkanzure: i liked their work too a bit http://www.gecode.org/
23:20.16madantkanzure: oh the mutliple solvers ? i was just thinking it might be possible that some solvers are better for some graphs / problems
23:20.34madantkanzure: i was not implying running a set of solvers for getting the complete set of solutions
23:21.43kanzureah, better as in more efficient
23:21.43kanzureokay
23:23.14madantis diybio fun ;) ?
23:23.18kanzurevery
23:23.35kanzurescroll down to the bottom of my homepage and I have a link to some recent work I've been doing with 'sharpie microfluidics'
23:23.51kanzurei.e. prototyping a "lab on a chip" with a sharpie and a few spare CDs using surface tension and the capillary force ;-)
23:24.42brlcadkanzure: huh, did minion make it?
23:24.55brlcadah, no
23:25.27brlcadgoing to say, just having two ideas and being that domain-specific .. nearly impossible
23:25.53madantkanzure: can't find it :P link ?
23:26.03brlcadmadant: that does look like an interesting project, though :)
23:26.13kanzuremadant: http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/msg/1197606e3c3dc439
23:26.55kanzure(there were 40 messages in that thread .. some of the more recent messages have been about prototyping microchannels via human hair + sharpie.. but anyway)
23:27.03madantbrlcad: yeah.. i will check out their papers tomorrow .. er.. today ( 5 am here) ..
23:27.06*** join/#brlcad ``Erik___ (i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
23:27.16brlcadpretty bold performance claims
23:27.17madantshould get going to try the Crossfit Murph
23:27.33brlcadnot just an order.. orders* faster
23:27.55brlcadlicense is a non-starter though, maybe they'd consider changing it
23:27.59madantkanzure: see you around.. will definitely check out graphsynth today
23:28.05kanzureokay, neat :)
23:28.13kanzurementions again that he's considering brlcad for gsoc
23:28.14kanzureheh
23:28.18brlcadheh
23:28.20madantbrlcad: maybe.. most probably students or profs somewhere..
23:28.43brlcadyeah, http://minion.sourceforge.net/people.html
23:29.28madantok.. :) be back in an hour..
23:29.34brlcadwould be fantastic if they relicensed as lgpl or bsd
23:29.40brlcadcya madant
23:48.01starseekerhmm, this is as close to a twisted prism shape as I can come in a short trial:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/twisted.png
23:48.07starseekernot so good
23:59.02brlcadheck of a lot easier with brep :)
23:59.10brlcadbut probably not as fast
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090319

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090319

00:03.11*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1242451023.dsl.bell.ca)
00:06.58louipcbrlcad: re: opennurbs hah they told me they were collecting email addresses so they can contact people when there are updates
00:08.48brlcadheh, I'd believe that too :)
00:10.11brlcadthere's just no harm in supporting your competition to make importers/exporters for their format to 3dm (rhino) format -- either supports existing rhino customers (via export functionalit) or helps steal/convert customers from their competition :)
00:10.29brlcadpretty brilliant actually, i think
00:10.36brlcad(for a commercial code)
00:10.55louipcyeah it's in the spirit of commercial interests really
00:11.14brlcadyeah, but the point was that they've been very up-front about that from the start
00:11.19bjorkintoshbrlcad, rhino strikes me as a maya/blender sorta competitor...
00:11.21bjorkintosham i wrong?
00:11.29louipcnot what you immediately think when you see the word 'open'
00:11.47brlcadthat they're doing it for business reasons and not for open source, but still providing it gratis
00:12.03brlcadbjorkintosh: they are very much
00:12.16louipcso yeah.. that's why I'm not so thrilled about brl-cad using it
00:12.19louipcshrugs
00:12.33brlcadbjorkintosh: their opennurbs library, however, is tiny slice of a much more extensive geometry toolkit
00:12.52bjorkintoshah okay.
00:13.14brlcadand has actually only little to do with what rhino itself does
00:13.28brlcadlouipc: how so?
00:13.36brlcadbecause it's not free software?
00:14.17brlcadit's public domain, doesn't get much more "do whatever you want with it" .. just with the caveat of "but don't come crying back for more from me"
00:14.18louipcbecause upstream is uncooperative
00:14.43brlcadsomeone could turn it into a f/oss project if they wanted
00:15.05brlcadi'm cool with that -- now if there was any ambiguity and they pretended to be open source...
00:15.29brlcadthat's effectively malicious intent
00:15.40brlcador at least subversive
00:15.43brlcadthey're not doing that
00:17.32brlcadlouipc: plus, the framework itself is pretty phenomenal just as a 'container' .. very clean API, probably saved at least a couple *years* of development effort with no other solution on par with as flexible usage rights
00:20.18starseekeranybody want to contact the minion folk about licensing?
00:27.13madantis back
00:27.36madantstarseeker: i was thinking of mailing them
00:28.13madantLGPL or GPL ?
01:00.13brlcadit's already GPL
01:00.21brlcadthat's nfg
01:00.46brlcadideally lgpl or bsd
01:01.16madant:) ha.. probably starseeker would be tetter at persuading them :D
01:01.31brlcaddon't make them any promises, but they might like to know why we're interested
01:02.22madanthmm
01:02.48madanti guess first i should try building it :D
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02:03.58starseekermadant:  Nah, go for it
02:05.38starseekerstares in awe at the number of upgrades waiting for him in gentoo and realizes he has waited too long since his last update
02:05.41starseekergroan
02:05.57starseekerplus a full kde rebuild against qt 4.5
02:06.07starseekerthe power bill will be higher this month...
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02:18.40*** join/#brlcad rahul_cool (i=dce324a3@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-65d3501ca96e87cf)
02:19.12rahul_coolhello all
02:20.33rahul_cooli have a problem in configuring brlcad source code
02:21.12rahul_coolwhen i gave the command svn checkout it says that it could not connect to site
02:21.31rahul_coolcan anyone help please
02:31.58louipcrahul_cool: you should post the exact message
02:38.56rahul_cooli have download svn with the help of following command... "sudo apt-get install subversion"
02:39.20rahul_coolthe output is...
02:39.39rahul_coolsvn: OPTIONS of 'https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk': could not connect to server (https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net)
02:40.15rahul_cooli gave this command many times and always same output appears
02:40.39rahul_cooli gave    svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
02:42.17madantdo u have to use a proxy to access the sites ?
02:42.52rahul_cooli tried .subversion/servers command  and the output is permission denied
02:44.25madanter.. .subversion/servers command ? you have to edit that file and put in the proper proxy host and port etc.
02:44.53dreevescan you ping the brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net
02:45.05dreevesserver
02:46.05rahul_coolyes i am able to access this site
02:46.15dreevesthen you don't have a proxy issue
02:46.34dreevescan you touch x in the directory where you are attempting to checkout
02:47.20rahul_cooltouch x means??i did not get u
02:47.35dreevestype the command 'touch x'
02:47.46rahul_coolok
02:48.05dreevesif it works means you have access to write to the directory you are in
02:48.06madantyou are able to access the server by using the ping command from the shell ? correct ?
02:48.21dreevesgood question?
02:49.35rahul_cooli didnot try ping command i access that site by putting its url address on net
02:49.57dreevesno madant is right you need to try in the shell
02:50.09dreevesyou could have a proxy setup in the browser
02:50.32rahul_coolok... i try
02:52.00dreeveswell
02:53.07dreevessorry madant I hope I didn't step on you there, habit I get this issue seems like every day at work it always 1 of 3 things
02:53.55madanthehe :D not at all..
02:54.04dreevescool
02:54.17madantscratches his trying to understand where the stepping might have happened :D
02:54.29madantyikes
02:54.43madantscratches his HEAD trying to understand where the stepping might have happened :D
02:54.59dreevesoh i didn't on purpose
02:55.47madant:D now i am plain confused .. :) how's the code surfing coming along dreeves ?
02:55.50dreevesbut you where kind of talking to rahul and then I jumped in and I'm new to this so I'm not certain of the exact protocols/formalities
02:56.11dreevescool I'm getting there
02:56.25madantshouts screw formalities :D
02:56.41dreevesyeah I typically do
02:57.14dreevesI'm familiar with the code but some of the math I have to get back into it has been a little while since i have really done it at this level
02:57.39dreevessome code has changed since I worked on it before but most is the same
02:58.05madantthought about what exactly you want to work on ? i might have missed some IRC discussion
02:58.49madanti wonder how it must have been all those years ago .. :)
02:58.54dreevesyeah I think I'm going to give a hand at nurbs
02:59.06dreevesbeing I'm rusty at math
02:59.39*** join/#brlcad rahul_cool (i=dce324a3@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c85f824f88c5af5c)
03:00.08rahul_cooli gave the command
03:00.25rahul_coolping https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk
03:00.32rahul_coolthe output comes
03:00.41madantjust 'ping brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net '
03:00.49rahul_coolping: unknown host https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk
03:01.58rahul_coolok..........on that command
03:02.03rahul_coolthe output is
03:02.05rahul_coolPING svn.sourceforge.net (216.34.181.65) 56(84) bytes of data.
03:02.31rahul_cooland still the process is not over
03:02.50dreevesare you something like 64 bytes from ....
03:04.12rahul_coolsorry, but i dont understand your question
03:04.28madantrahul_cool : press Ctrl-C and see if you have 100 % packet loss
03:05.13rahul_coolyes   210 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 209062ms
03:05.24madantrahul_cool: do you have any idea if you use an http proxy in your browser settings ?
03:05.53rahul_coolyes i do use in browser settings
03:06.24madantyou have to edit the .subversion/servers file to use the same proxy settings
03:06.48madanti hope the comments in the files are understandable enough for you to edit it.
03:07.07rahul_coolok
03:07.24rahul_cooli try it
03:08.10madantyou just have to uncomment(remove the initial hash) two lines and put in the proper proxy host and proxy port
03:08.22madantbelow the [global] line
03:08.56madantand then try svn checkout http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad just in case the https is giving u trouble
03:09.41madantrahul_cool: u are doing a BS in computer science ?
03:09.52rahul_coolno btech
03:10.03madantwhich year ?
03:10.10rahul_coolfinal year
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03:10.18madantwhich Univ / college ?
03:10.30rahul_coolNIT Kurukshetra
03:11.17rahul_coolIn our college we rarely use linux
03:13.15madanthehe.. np .. simple things can appear complicated in the beginning :)
03:13.51rahul_coolmay i know what u are doing??
03:14.28madanter. me ? :D i just passed out from IIT Kharagpur last year.. on a sabbatical since september
03:14.50rahul_coolok.
03:15.22rahul_coolcan u plz tell me where is .subversion/servers file??
03:15.47madantin ur home directory
03:16.31rahul_coolno it is not there
03:16.54madantthere is a hidden folder .subversion . in it there is a file called servers.. if you use vim u can straight away edit it from the shell using 'vim ~/.subversion/servers'
03:17.36madantin that case u can edit the default settings at /etc/subversion/servers
03:17.39madantas root
03:18.40rahul_coolgot it
03:18.47madantdreeves: any thoughts about what exactly in nurbs ;) ?
03:19.44madanti really loved the idea of NURBS the first time i heard about it.. as all great ideas come.. simple yet powerful :D
03:20.15rahul_coolsorry..i dont have any idea
03:20.31madantrahul_cool: ?
03:20.40madantsorry i didn't get you
03:21.06rahul_cooloh oh sorry...i thought nurbs thing
03:24.40rahul_coolhey we use http proxy 172.16.0.1  but in that file what we have to write in http host
03:25.10madantunder the [global] section
03:25.30madantyou must have something like # http-proxy-host = defaultproxy.whatever.com
03:25.40rahul_coolyes
03:25.55madantreplace it with http-proxy-host = 172.16.0.1
03:26.12rahul_cooli was doing the same
03:26.22madantand similarly with the next line http-proxy-port .. replace it with the port you have to use
03:26.37madantand make sure you remove th # at the beginning of the line
03:27.10rahul_coolya ...
03:27.24madantand once you have saved the changes..  svn checkout http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
03:29.38madantgetting error messages again?
03:31.09rahul_coolwait plz
03:33.25rahul_coolit is saying  option expected
03:33.45madantdid you fill in the http-proxy-port ?
03:33.53rahul_coolyes
03:33.55rahul_cool8181
03:34.03rahul_coolsvn: /etc/subversion/servers:73: Option expected
03:34.59madanttell me what is on line no: 73 of the servers file
03:36.03rahul_coolhttp-proxy-host = 172.16.0.1
03:36.58madantit is the http-proxy-host line right ? make sure it is exactly 'http-proxy-host = 172.16.0.1' and at the end of the line do a CR (Enter) just in case
03:38.50rahul_coolthanz buddy.............
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03:38.58rahul_coolits working great
03:38.59madantno more errors ?
03:39.05rahul_coolno
03:39.10madantk.. have fun hacking brl-cad :)
03:39.37rahul_coolhey can u help me in running brlcad??
03:40.02madanter ? come back to irc if you need any help ?
03:40.29rahul_coolcan u give me ur id...just in case...
03:40.31copenhaguehello anyone using salome over here?
03:40.36madantsomebody will be here most of the time..
03:40.50madantcopenhague: anything particular ?
03:41.01copenhaguejust looking for inputs
03:41.11copenhaguei'm thinking about installing it
03:41.31copenhaguei think salome is better than bricad
03:41.40copenhaguewhat do you think madant?
03:41.41madantaah.. i tried it out last year.. :D remember the installation was tough on debian :D
03:41.58copenhaguenow theres the caelinux right?
03:42.05copenhaguei'm on opensuse
03:42.28madanter.. u meant to say salome is better than brlcad ?
03:42.34madantgrrr.. :D
03:42.46copenhaguei don't know
03:42.49copenhagueyou tell me
03:43.01copenhaguei have the feel that is better
03:43.08madanti don't think so.. last time i checked salome's UI and functionality was very minimal and besides they deal with different things really
03:43.37copenhaguei think i'll try bricad then
03:43.56madantbrlcad :)
03:44.04madantwhat do u plan to use it for ?
03:44.27copenhagueis there a nc simulation on bricad?
03:44.41copenhaguejust to 3d designs, modeling
03:44.48madant:) am not an expert
03:45.01copenhaguei'm a cnc programmer and looking for modeller for free
03:45.03madantu planning to do designs or numerical simulation ?
03:45.08madantah.. ok..
03:45.21copenhaguedesigns
03:45.32copenhagueand or numerical simulations
03:46.02bjorkintoshwhich cnc machine do you work with, copenhague?
03:46.07madanthmm.. i don't have a good answer .. so i must shut up :D
03:46.37madantllikes stereolithography better ;)
03:46.51copenhagueall kind, i do programming bjorkintosh
03:47.00copenhaguemills 3, 4 axis
03:47.06copenhaguemultiaxis machines
03:47.07bjorkintoshlathes?
03:47.09bjorkintoshokay.
03:47.19copenhaguei'm strong on multiaxis not lathe anymore
03:47.34copenhaguethe multiaxis are lathe as-well
03:47.41copenhagueyou?
03:48.12madantis off to church :O
03:48.28copenhaguebjorkintosh, are you into cnc?
03:48.48copenhagueis there a good cnc tool for linux other than gcam
03:48.51copenhague?
03:49.35madantcopenhague , you should stick around.. there are some crazy people on this channel who will be able to offer better comments :)
03:49.51copenhaguesure, thanks
03:49.58copenhaguei'll be back all teh time
03:50.00bjorkintoshcopenhague, not me. there're some crazy people ... ah, what madant said.
03:50.17copenhagueso you guys think that i'm crazy hum.
03:50.19copenhague:)
03:50.22copenhaguejust joking
04:00.19bjorkintoshi'd never seen salome.
04:00.45copenhaguehttp://caelinux.com/CMS/index.php?option=com_joomlaboard&Itemid=52&func=view&id=2495&catid=2
04:01.13copenhaguethe last audi car was all designed with salome and caelinux
04:01.30bjorkintoshhah.
04:01.35bjorkintoshthat tells me nothing, to be honest.
04:01.48bjorkintosha good number of cars were designed long before CAD tools came to exist.
04:02.02copenhaguei know
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04:19.02Ralithbjorkintosh: it tells you audi thought it was the appropriate tool
04:20.28bjorkintoshi rather think it was arbitrary.
04:20.45dreevesYeah but to bjorkintosh that still doesn't really mean anything it could have been the appropriate tool for alot of reasons that may not be relevant to anyone else
04:20.48bjorkintoshthey could have achieved the same results with a good #2 pencil and a great drawing curve.
04:21.13bjorkintoshand some rulers too :)
04:21.52bjorkintoshbut i'm looking at salome's screenshots.
04:22.10bjorkintoshis it pronounced 'saloMAY' or 'saLOAM'?
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06:05.34dreeves_brlcad I think addressed all the issues you brought please let me know if you catch anymore style problems.  I have defined the style in my editor so I don't have to remember to follow the style
06:05.44dreeves_I submitted a new patch
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06:09.49dreeves_ok so I think I did that wrong I submitted a whole new tacker but I realized I should have attached so I opened the other tracker and attached sorry about that
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07:10.21rahul_coolhello all
07:11.11rahul_coolwhen i gave the command ./autogen.sh for configuring ...the output comes
07:11.14rahul_coolUnable to locate GNU Autoconf.
07:13.45rahul_coolany one here to solve this problem please
07:39.04rahul_coolon giving ./configure command   the output comes........
07:39.16rahul_coolconfigure: error: *** compiler cannot create working executables, check config.log ***
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10:14.59piksibrlcad: the no.1 thing brl-cad would need for realistic usage in architecture and building industry is IFC
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11:07.02rahul_coolhiiiiiiii
11:08.08_sushi_brlcad: do people keep telling you which all things are necessary in brl-cad?
11:18.54louipcrahul_cool: do you have autoconf installed?
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11:33.21brlcadrahul_cool: for what it's worth, gsoc requires participants to be highly self-motivated able to figure out problems on your own -- we're here to help you when you get stuck, not hold you hand every step of the way -- just keep that in mind
11:37.59brlcaddreeves_: okay, will look at it
11:40.28brlcadpiksi: agreed, and actually rather doable given our object representation and attribute/value system
11:41.32brlcadifc data is essentially metadata over a functional building representation, not unlike what we do for modeling vehicles functionally for ballistic analyses
11:43.10piksibrlcad: do excuse my ignorance (haven't yet dug deep into brl features) but how are materials represented in brl models? are composite materials easy to use with the current system (e.g. a wall with concrete + structural steel with insulation on top of it and panels on top of that etc...) ?
11:44.14*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.134.229)
11:45.32brlcadpiksi: right now, brl-cad defines material properties at a "region" level -- which is intended to refer to a single relatively homogeneous material type per region, but then also allows application-specific attributes to be associated with any object
11:48.12brlcade.g. a wall with concrete + structural steel would either be defined with a concrete wall region and the structural steel actually modeled (which is usuall trivial with CSG) as a region, or you make one "wall" region and assign it the responsive properties of 'concrete+steel' as a material, or you can make it concrete and assign it an application-specific set of attributes (such as the structural steel properties)
11:49.26brlcadthe same continues with the insulation and panels -- brl-cad is intently designed for high-resolution modeling so you could either physicaly represent the insulation and panels as geometric regions, or similar to the structural steel just associate them as application-specific data associated with said "wall" region
11:49.40brlcadhopefully that makes some sense to you
11:49.56brlcadI used a fair bit of brl-cad geometric terminology in there
11:50.14brlcadan ifc-g importer would certainly be interesting..
11:50.23brlcadespecially given it's also founded in express like step
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16:16.48madantlooking at brl-cad codeswarm : a lot of mike and jra awesomeness till now.. lots of years left :D
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16:40.36madantmorrison was brlcad :P ?
16:42.20madantand now brlcad is morrison :D
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16:43.27brlcadmadant: awesome, you should post the video up on the website!
16:43.54brlcadif there's a way to combine names, that'd be useful
16:44.13brlcadbecause several of the devs went from one username to another when the project went open source and moved to sourceforge
16:45.37madanthmm.. i havent made the video yet.. will put in better colours and tweaking..  for the video i have to output each frame to png and then combine them to make a .avi or .mov
16:46.19madantdon't think there is a name combine feature .. but supports a regex based legend and colouration
16:46.32brlcadlike morrison->brlcad and jra->johnranderson and bparker->bob1961, etc
16:46.40brlcadohloh has a list of how they all map somewhere
16:46.52CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34057 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/shoot.c: A slightly better mod to rt_res_pieces_clean() that skips uninitialized rt_piecestate structures.
16:47.01brlcadspeak of the devil.. :)
16:47.07madanthah :)
16:48.56brlcadwonders how it visualizes the open sourcing "event" that made massive changes
16:50.19brlcadmadant: not sure if it's useful, but might be able to correlate what you're looking at with this: http://brlcad.org/OLD/statcvs/  and  http://brlcad.org/OLD/statcvs.normalized/
16:51.13brlcadneeds to run that again
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17:37.39brlcadhowdy mafm_
17:40.22kanzurehrm, so what's up with that multitouch thread?
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17:53.40piksibrlcad: thanks for a good explanation, i thjink i understood the principles :-)
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18:42.58kanzureso I'm writing up an email for the list regarding the parametrics/constraints stuff yesterday, is there anything in particular I should include that I might forget?
19:19.15brlcadkanzure: heh, kind of a loaded question ;)
19:20.24kanzuretoo late now :) sent the email
19:20.27kanzuregives his fingers a break.
19:27.34brlcadgood lord man
19:27.46kanzurebwahah
19:28.05brlcadthere's like 10 discussions there
19:28.09kanzurethat's right.
20:06.27CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34058 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/tree.c: Minor formatting.
20:10.14CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34059 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Added ged_inside_internal() to libged and modified ged_inside() to call it. Mged also calls this when getting the inside of something being edited.
21:44.36kanzurebrlcad: freedns.afraid.org is back up.
21:56.08brlcadkanzure: the website may be, but the dns is still down
21:56.12brlcadtry a direct query
21:56.17brlcadnslookup @ns1.afraid.org heybryan.org
21:57.01brlcader, s/nslookup/dig/
21:58.04kanzureand your claim that the reason that I don't yet have these problems is because it's cached on some DNS server I'm using?
21:58.30kanzurehrm. maybe you're just in a crummy geographical location with bad nameservers?
22:00.41brlcadkanzure: heh, I'm sitting a few hundred feet away from one of the 13 root name servers on the planet
22:01.41brlcad"H" is right here
22:04.38brlcadkanzure: my money is on afraid.org doing something wrong or their ISP doing something wrong
22:04.53brlcadfor starters, they have self-referential DNS .. you're not supposed to do that
22:06.29brlcadcould try http://freedns.ws/en/ or http://zoneedit.com
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090320

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090320

00:02.36*** join/#brlcad dreeves (n=dreeves@67.130.253.14)
00:11.26starseekerwhere was that website with the gear stuff (that I couldn't access yesterday?)
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01:10.52brlcaddreeves: yes
01:11.23brlcadstarseeker: pictures are worth a thousand words and probably ten thousand equations
01:11.28brlcad(to most people)
01:11.50starseekerok, I'll give it my best shot
01:12.14brlcaddoesn't have to be comprehensive, just a few illustrative examples
01:12.25starseekernods
01:12.37brlcador maybe a table that shows two variables
01:12.56starseekerwhat I need to do is provide the tools (intellectual, if not code) to allow people to make use of overall length as a measurement
01:13.14brlcade.g., http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/geometry/superellipse/superellipse11.gif
01:13.25brlcadspeaks wonders with a simple table
01:13.31starseekerconverting length into something useful for a coil isn't so simple
01:13.56starseekerah, yes
01:14.04starseeker's situation is a bit different
01:15.45starseekerI need to teach people how to compute some other input value based on length (unless I just skip that, but since overall length is one of the simplest measurements a modeler can make for a coil I hate to ignore it, too...)
01:15.54brlcadsimilarly, http://cgkit.sourceforge.net/tutorials/materials/specular.jpg
01:16.12starseekernods
01:16.21brlcadof course it's different, the point is that you can pack a lot of data in by picking two useful variables
01:16.21starseekerI actually do that for most of the coil settings :-)
01:16.44madantwakes up and realises he has a lot to read :D
01:16.47starseekeryes, but it's worse than that - there are two different equations that have to be used
01:17.01starseekerbased on certain geometric behaviors
01:17.01brlcadi'm sure it is
01:17.08brlcadbut in the end, you're making a spring
01:17.12starseekersure
01:17.15brlcadso you show a few tables
01:17.30brlcadthey don't need to know every shape ever possible
01:17.42starseekeroh, I know
01:18.02starseekerbut using length to calculate parameters is something else again
01:18.13starseekercan't just show examples
01:18.17starseekerneed to outline method
01:18.28brlcade.g. the superellipse table has a dozen other parameters that you could tweak that would make things even more complicated -- they're just not nearly as useful and the extra information really just confuses the core explanation
01:19.58starseekernods
01:20.26starseekerRealistically, I don't HAVE to say a word about overall length - it's not an input parameter
01:20.41starseekercould just leave it up to the modeller
01:22.19starseekerwas just trying to anticipate difficulties that would come up in real world use
01:41.03brlcadyou could certainly make it an input parameter as that's probably very true :)
01:42.12brlcadto me a coil's basic properties are it's overall length, radius, wire thickness, and number of windings or density of windings
01:43.05brlcadif the user has to perform a bunch of calculations to arrive at their desired length, that sounds like something prime for the application to handle for them
01:45.35brlcadotherwise my basic point regarding the diagrams was that you should just enough to get the gist of what it is and does, not necessarily explain every or even most of the details -- that can be captured in the writeup and (if needed) the equations themselves
01:51.07starseekernods
01:53.16starseekerthe problem with length as an input parameter is it makes ONE of several other parameters unnecessary, but not uniquely - e.g. length + pitch + wire diameter will settle helix angle (in most cases, there is actually one corner case with two solutions) but by the same token length + wire diameter + helix angle will settle pitch.  I'm still not sure how to automagically use length "correctly" to solve for the right value
01:53.43starseekershort of a lot of special case programming (yuck)
02:01.37brlcadyou allow the unnecessary parameters and just do a validation check on your arguments
02:02.36brlcadthink of how rt will let you specify an image -- you can specify a square image size, width, height, aspect ratio, cell size, and a few other things .. and specifying any of those often makes any of the others unnecessary
02:02.53brlcadbut it still lets you, and deals with the calcs and validation
02:03.07brlcadwell pseudo validation, last one wins iirc
02:03.36brlcadyep, last one
02:03.50brlcad(e.g., rt -s1024 -n512 -w512)
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02:43.41starseekerbrlcad:  ok, so I would put in the equations for each parameter deducable from length, solve whichever ones I could based on inputs, and if one input was "missing" that length is supposed to substitute for that calculation would succeed and would replace the default?
02:44.40starseekersupposes he might as well, since he needs to add the ability to do left and right handed coiling anyway
02:44.49brlcadyou have a set of parameters you "need" to calculate
02:44.56brlcadto calculate the coil, that is
02:45.07starseekeryes
02:45.15brlcadpresumably there is some default if you just run the program?
02:45.20brlcad(should be)
02:45.22starseekeryes
02:45.36brlcadthen each arg adjusts the defaults however it makes sense
02:45.45brlcadsort of like an overlay
02:46.11brlcadso if given -l 100 .. all those inputs are adjusted however makes sense for -l 100 to work
02:46.27starseekerthere isn't a unique solution to that
02:46.40brlcadthen if followed by some other arg -coil_density 1.0, whatever, even something that conflicts, it readjusts
02:46.52brlcadbut there is a consistent solution I bet
02:47.03starseekerconsistent?
02:47.07brlcad'valid'
02:47.12starseekersure, several
02:47.31brlcadso they've underspecified, but it's enough to work with
02:47.36brlcadtechnically the defaults are underspecified
02:48.24madant_needs a faster computer :D
02:48.59starseekeryes, but what is the "preferred" way to adjust?  reduce number of coils and tweak wire diameter?  change the helix angle?
02:49.16starseekerI suspect the answer to that is "yes", which is where the problem comes in
02:50.23starseekerIf I underspecify by one input parameter and add length, I expect length to be solved for the missing parameter
02:50.32starseekerif I underspecify by two, it gets less clear
02:50.56starseekerunderspecifying by one is a fair bit of work (solve the length equations for all variables) but doable
02:51.09starseekerthe second involves "picking something"
02:51.52starseekerpresumably the default would usually be zero helix angle, I guess...
02:52.07starseekermaybe that could be the "last assumption to go..."
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02:57.24brlcad'yes'
03:02.55brlcadlike I said, I'd expect the dominant params be length+coil_diameter+wire_diameter+#coils if I was making one
03:03.20brlcadbut then I don't have a need to make coils repeatedly as a modeling task, that's just my common sean expectation
03:03.53brlcadpitch to me is just a specialization that replaces #coils
03:04.16brlcadand pitch+#coils replaces length
03:04.35starseekerpitch is spacing between coils
03:04.51brlcadyeah
03:04.55starseekerwell, ok
03:05.07starseekerstores those to use as defaults...
03:05.39brlcadinternally maybe you turn everything into just #coils and pitch
03:05.54starseekerno, helix angle is distinct
03:05.59starseekeras is wire diameter
03:06.30brlcadi mean per that example if that was your dependency matrix, you find *some* set that you use internally
03:06.37starseekeroh
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03:07.09brlcade.g., rt doesn't store -s1024 anywhere
03:07.31brlcadit just keeps a buffer and a width and height
03:07.36starseekeroh, sure
03:07.56starseekerbrlcad:  I take it you haven't played with the existing coil tool much? :-)
03:08.04brlcadso it might get a little tricky, but it should be doable given you can make a default coil
03:08.28brlcadi don't have to play with the tool to know how argument handling should be able to work :)
03:08.33starseekerheh
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03:08.41brlcadeven for outright conflicting args, it doesn't matter
03:09.14starseekeras a user might prefer a warning if he feeds in conflicting args...
03:09.33brlcadalways a good thing
03:09.41brlcadcould even halt
03:09.51starseekernods
03:09.59brlcads/could/should/
03:10.22brlcadjust not requisite, not much halts as it is
03:10.44starseekersighs - nevermind about proofreading, looks like it will be a while (more functionality to add first)
03:11.32starseekerstarts visualizing how to deal with length issues... hmm...
03:12.07starseekerah well, low priority anyway
03:12.21starseekerbrlcad:  thanks for the feedback/help :-)
03:12.39brlcadthat's why it's often/usually good to implement the interface/api/args before the implementation so you can think about it from the user's perspective before getting bogged down in what the implemenation needs :)
03:13.02brlcadotherwise you just end up exposing implementation detail to the user and that makes them go 'wtf'
03:13.16brlcaddsp anyone.. wtf
03:13.35starseekergot scared off initially by all the math needed to handle length ;-) Existing parameters are actually based on how springs are "usually" defined
03:13.51starseekerjust happens that length is the easy one to <measure>
03:13.55starseekerchuckles at dsp
03:14.34brlcadwell, there's usually defined by *spring-makers* and by *consumers* of spring-makers .. which are rarely the same
03:14.57starseekernods
03:16.48starseekeractually, for springs with severe helical angle length can be a bit tricky too, come to think of it...
03:17.57brlcadkinda what I'm referring to: http://www.lovells.com.au/catalogue/2004-08_catalogue_4x4_springs_v2.pdf
03:18.03brlcadpage 4
03:18.24brlcadthat's how I think of springs, how I'd be trying to specify one
03:19.30dreevesSo is the nurbs implementation displaying the wireframe correctly now?
03:19.42brlcadit should be
03:19.49brlcadjust it won't show trimmed surfaces
03:20.03brlcadit'll show that outer extent, maybe the trimming curve itself
03:20.14brlcad(too)
03:20.37starseekerbrlcad:  thank you for that link, that's very helpful
03:21.31brlcaddreeves: it doesn't tessellate the surfaces yet, just the extents, if that's what you mean by correctly
03:21.52brlcadbut otherwise, yeah - I don't know of any actual "problem" with what it shows other than being simple
03:22.02dreevesyes that is what I was asking
03:22.03brlcadraytracing is where there are problems
03:22.38brlcadeek, I gotta catch some z's before practice
03:22.39dreevesright but I'm just trying to get an idea of what I'm shooting for :)
03:23.00dreevespractice for what?
03:24.37brlcaddreeves: if you want to start with a tangible issue on the current code base, you could look at breplicator or one of the other two cubes, take any corner point of the cube and pull it inward to make two of the faces non-planar
03:24.51brlcadthat's a relatively specific bug that will probably lead deep down the rabbit hole
03:24.58brlcadpractice for crew
03:25.01brlcadrows
03:25.23starseekerjust not gently down a stream ;-)
03:26.32brlcadmm, yeah.. kinda windy tomorrow and cold
03:26.53brlcadwelp, ta ta
03:26.59starseekerlater - have fun!
03:28.39double-yangI'm a student who wants to apply GSoC project.
03:29.09double-yangMay I ask someting about that?
03:29.27madant_hi double-yang
03:29.34brlcadstarseeker: http://www.vanel.com/compression.php?lang=english
03:29.44madant_what do you have in mind ?
03:29.47brlcadyummy, http://www.vanel.com/compression-conical.php?lang=english
03:30.25brlcadwelcome double-yang, glad to hear it, gotta run, have fun talking to the other guys ;)
03:30.43double-yangI'm considering
03:31.23double-yang@brlcad:Thanks
03:33.37madant_double-yang: any specific ideas on what you would liek to work on ?
03:34.36double-yang@brlcad:I saw you assorted those idears inyo two parts, High Priority and Additional
03:34.38madant_s/liek/like
03:35.51double-yangmadant_:Implicit to Explicit boundary representation support
03:37.36double-yangmadant_:I'm interest in this one
03:38.44double-yangmadant_:What do you prefer?
03:39.11madant_sorry didn't get you
03:39.54double-yanghttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009/Project_Ideas
03:40.34madant_:) hehe.. oh.. i have been working with brl-cad since last year on parametrics and constraints :)
03:40.56double-yangOh,sorry.
03:41.09madant_I wrote 1.7 :)
03:41.23double-yangGreat!
03:41.36madant_not at all .. so have you thought about how you would go about the project ?
03:43.11madant_the existing brep files give a pretty good idea about the work involved
03:43.29double-yangI'm a student in physics department
03:43.42madant_ah kewl. which univ.
03:44.20double-yangNorthwest Univ in China
03:45.41madant_hehe nice :) 你好马
03:46.41double-yangÄãÖÐÎIJ»´í:)
03:47.52madant_argh.. something wrong with encoding.. am only getting ÄãÖÐÎIJ»´í:)
03:48.03madant_nyways poolio is the brep guy :)
03:50.57double-yangÄãÖÐÎIJ»´í means your Chinese is good :)
03:52.55double-yangmadant_:So are you a mentor of the GSoC ?
03:53.40madant_double-yang: hehe.. i meant i am only getting some weird roman charaters only instead of the chinese logographs.. must be something to do with my client settings
03:53.50madant_double-yang: and nope i am not a mentor :)
03:54.22madant_is very much interested in Physics albeit an architect by education :D
03:54.45double-yang:)
03:55.00madant_is still in an earnest approach to finishing the 10 volumes of Landau's course of theoretical physics
03:55.50madant_double-yang: have u already built brl-cad ?
03:56.04madant_and did u check out the brep code for ell, nmg etc ?
03:56.56double-yangmadant_:No, actually.
03:57.15double-yangI'm a new guy here
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03:58.53double-yangYou know that Open Source is not very popular in my nation.
03:59.01madant_no problem :) everybody is new at some point ..
03:59.21madant_you could check out the subversion repository and tinker around :)
03:59.27madant_http://brlcad.org/wiki/SVN
04:00.41double-yangThanks for your link.
04:02.08madant_you can also view the code online at http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/
04:03.32madant_the primitives are here.. as mentioned in the wiki some of them already have brep http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/
04:05.11double-yangThese will be a great of help!:)
04:08.29double-yangIt's really a exciting experience to chat with all of you.
04:10.18madant_double-yang: our pleasure.. do come back and tell us your brl-cad building experience and further adventures
04:10.49double-yangmadant_:Sure.:)
04:12.17double-yangmadant_:It's time for lunch.I have to go.
04:13.21madant_bye double-yang
04:13.38double-yangmadant_:Nice to talking to you.Bye.:)
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06:25.20anirudhhi
06:25.28anirudhany mentors around here
06:25.39anirudhfor google soc
06:29.20anirudhhey
06:29.24anirudhanyone around ?
06:40.52yukonbobhey, cadheads
06:41.03yukonbobanirudh: what's your question?
06:42.07anirudhhey
06:42.15anirudhi want to propose an idea
06:42.30anirudhits not on the list, its simple
06:42.53anirudhCAD manipulations using Multitouch gestures
06:43.14anirudhcan i do a proposal based on something like that :)
06:48.12anirudhanyone around
06:48.38yukonbobsounds like you're proposing a new input device and driver and complete suppport in the application...
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06:49.24yukonbob;)
06:49.27anirudhno
06:49.37yukonbobgo on...
06:49.45anirudhcan you copy paste the last chat u said :P i got dc
06:50.16yukonbobI was saying that it sounds like you're proposing a new device, driver and BRL-CAD interface...
06:50.43yukonbobremember that the project ought to be achievable in the timeframe proposed.
06:51.06anirudhnot a device exactly, a lot of people have alredy built their DIY Multitouch tables
06:51.17anirudhhave you seen touchlib ?
06:51.25anirudhits an open source tracker for touches
06:51.50yukonbobI've heard of it, not programmed against it...
06:52.17yukonbobdo you have experience programming against touchlib, and have a working device?
06:52.19anirudhthe TUIO protocol it has, i have to send TUIO data on port 3000 and BRLCAD will listen to that data
06:52.22anirudhyeah
06:52.30anirudhwww.sparsh-i.com
06:52.43anirudhcheck out the video i've put up of my device :)
06:53.13anirudhCAD manipulations using multitouch would add a lot of functionality and ease the interaction process
06:53.27anirudhthe way people interact with CAD
06:53.39anirudhit'll ease the process, i believe ;)
06:54.00yukonbobI'm imagining easing spinning/flipping a la Jeff Hahn
06:54.14yukonbobfor wireframe static views....
06:54.17anirudhyeah
06:54.17anirudhright :)
06:54.30anirudhthat's precise , but it wasnt CAD i believe
06:55.21yukonbobthe vids I've seen were sorting photographs, navigating blobs of "Lava lamp" goo ;)
06:56.18yukonbobanirudh: do you have a direct link to the video, so I can view via mplayer (/me doesn't have flash-enabled ffox)
06:56.19anirudhyeah
06:56.20anirudhthats for the eye candy :P
06:56.20anirudhI plan drawing based on Gestures
06:57.18anirudhits uploaded on vimeo
06:57.18anirudhcan you access that ?
06:57.22anirudhwait
06:58.17anirudhflv works ?
06:58.22anirudhhttp://www.vimeo.com/moogaloop/play/clip:2953423/d1d4af0d0fe684209fb3beb8b344e662/1237564800/video.flv?q=
06:58.40anirudhi got a direct link via keepvid site, it allows direct downloading of videos
06:58.47anirudhyukon you around ?
06:59.18yukonboby
06:59.36yukonbobI think your paste was truncated...
06:59.54anirudhdidnt it work ?
07:00.26anirudhhttp://www.vimeo.com/moogaloop/play/clip:2953423/d1d4af0d0fe684209fb3beb8b344e662/1237564800/video.flv
07:00.35anirudhsee it now, i hope it should work !
07:00.36anirudh:)
07:01.10anirudhsee the DJ app on multitouch, music mixing we did on the touch surface
07:02.48anirudhnow a days making MT pads and tables isnt hard with so much DIY info around... Dell's XT laptop and HP Touchsmart are alredy popular, Apple will be releasing all its screens soon based on Multitouch
07:03.17yukonbobhrmm... no dice (via curl)
07:03.30anirudh??
07:03.39yukonbobbetter via ffox...
07:03.41yukonbob1 sec
07:03.47anirudhyep :P
07:11.22yukonbobnice
07:11.27yukonboball your own footage?
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07:18.30yukonbobneeds to hit hay --- anirudh, I'd post the idea to the wiki, and if you have the cycles, don't hesitate to begin a proof-of-concept or some other demo
07:19.23yukonbobsee: http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas
07:19.41anirudhyeah
07:19.51anirudhits me and my classmates on the video :)
07:19.59yukonbobnice indeed.
07:20.20anirudhhey, also give me ur google talk id , if u use that
07:20.40yukonbobdon't have one atm...
07:21.23yukonbobI need to hit hay (work tomorrow), but don't hesitate to talk to me, brlcad (the user here in IRC), or starseeker, or ``Erik
07:22.20anirudhhehe yea
07:22.31yukonbobchat later :)
07:22.48anirudhbbye :) so you got my idea, right ? :)
07:22.50anirudhthanks
07:22.52hippieindamakin8anirudh, u sent that proposal of mt eh ?
07:22.53anirudhlaters man
07:23.00anirudhyeah
07:23.09anirudhyep hippie
07:23.24hippieindamakin8wait that was ashish kumar rai
07:24.04anirudh???
07:24.17anirudhis confused
07:24.24anirudhwhat's up ? are you ashish ?
07:27.23hippieindamakin8anirudh, no :) i am hippieindamakin8 :)
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08:56.00brlcadyawns
09:05.11madanthuh awake already ? i thought u just went to sleep
09:06.13madantis getting his lappie heating up trying to build minion
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11:13.55madantaah apparently double-yang's real name is Yang Yang :)
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11:59.43brlcadmadant: I had :)
11:59.57brlcadfew hours is plenty
12:00.16brlcadif I could get away with less and function safely, I would :)
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13:52.49CIA-40BRL-CAD: 0378.183.51.7 07http://brlcad.org * r1285 10/wiki/Building_from_SVN: /* Install */
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14:36.42CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Louipc 07http://brlcad.org * r1286 10/wiki/URL_URI_URN_Implimentations: Typos
15:15.31CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34060 10/rt^3/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): added the arb8 object
15:17.51brlcadneat
15:18.07brlcadlouipc: care to take a stab at fixing that bug :)
15:19.09louipcbrlcad: can you reproduce it or is it just me?
15:19.14madantbrlcad: how was rowing :)
15:25.41louipcbrlcad: you're referring to the ogl reattach bug right?
15:25.48brlcadlouipc: yes
15:25.50brlcadmadant: fantastic
15:25.59brlcadactually kinda crappy today, but fantastic to be rowing
15:26.15brlcadwas windy, boat couldn't be set well
15:26.26louipcarr
15:27.00brlcadmatey
15:27.06louipcI would like to stab the bug, but I think it's beyond my sorry level of understanding
15:27.07madantlearned swimming only recently :D , would love to row sometime
15:27.35brlcadrowing doesn't generally require swimming unless you're doing something wrong :)
15:27.53louipchaha
15:27.58louipcswimming is a good back-up
15:28.38brlcadthe oars float ;)
15:31.37madant:D hah..
15:32.21madanti would really not like to be in the middle of a big lake and not know swimming :D even if it is a big boat :P
15:34.04brlcadthere's a "flip test" in crew where they intentionally put you in a single skull boat and make you flip it (with you in it)
15:34.52brlcadthe test is to unstrap yourself from the boat (so you don't drown), get out from under it, flip the boat back over, and then actually get back into the boat (which is way way harder than it sounds)
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15:35.31starseekerwonders why the heck he slep so late and gets his butt in gear...
15:42.04brlcadhopefully not first gear ;)
15:42.22brlcadis excited about the bsg finale
15:45.17madantdoesnt like his image of flip test :D
15:46.46jonored_brlcad: Sounds like what I was doing the first several times out in a kayak...
15:48.01jonored_Well, apart from the intentional part. That was only in the lake.
15:49.18madanthmm.. kayaking is quite different from rowing ?
15:52.49brlcadthey make you do it in a single simply because it *will eventually happen
15:52.55brlcadjust a matter of time :)
15:53.09_sushi_rowing on a gym rowing machine doesn't require swimming :)
15:53.16jonored_madant: It is, but the practice is the same idea. Although in a kayak there's the stuff you do after that of learning to just get back up without getting out of the boat.
15:53.37_sushi_eskimo?
15:53.39brlcadthere was a great shot at the olympics last year where this pair was *way* ahead of the competition .. and they ended up flipping like 20ft in front of the finish line
15:53.53brlcadthey tried swimming with their boat across the finish line
15:53.59brlcaddidn't quite make it, but was hilarious
15:55.17jonored_Hilarious. sushi: Yep. Girlfriend can do it in a small kayak but not a sea one, and I can't yet at all. Going to be able to.
15:55.39_sushi_do you need strength for that?
15:55.39louipckayaks are awesome
15:55.52brlcad_sushi_: rowing on an erg is more akin to torture ..
15:56.43brlcadat least outside you have these amazing sights (water, waves, sunrises/sunsets, etc), sounds of the water and boats, fresh air .. serene
15:57.09_sushi_I don't find water waves sounds of water boats and fresh air amazing
15:57.15_sushi_But i find sunsets and sunrises amazing
15:57.34_sushi_But what's really amazing is the sun in noon
15:57.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34061 10/rt^3/trunk/ (10 files in 2 dirs): IsValid method is now required for all Objects
15:58.25brlcadin the best times of the year (end of spring, beginning of fall), I usually get to see the sunrise over the water and sunsets almost on a daily basis
15:58.37brlcadit can be very surreal
15:58.44_sushi_I saw a sunset at the sea once
15:58.49_sushi_Nothing really special
15:58.58_sushi_I find sunsets in Prague more beautiful
15:59.06brlcadnot really the same thing at sea
15:59.40_sushi_Those are sights everyone knows
15:59.54_sushi_But interesting is for example a red beam of light going through fog in the night
15:59.59_sushi_You can see how the fog is moving inside
16:00.59brlcadexactly what I'm trying to say, it's NOT something you normally see anywhere unless you live at a marina
16:01.24_sushi_why does a marina sunset special?
16:01.34brlcadthe fog rushes out as the sunrise begins, the hour preceeding is tiny white and red lights of your boat and other small craft
16:01.55_sushi_what is tiny white?
16:02.02brlcadvery quiet, water can be almost glasslike
16:02.38_sushi_oh that sounds sureeal
16:02.44brlcadboats have lights just like cars
16:02.52brlcadwell, not just like them
16:02.54brlcadbut similar
16:03.19_sushi_don't boats make waves?
16:03.21brlcadwhite light in front to let other boats know which way you are facing, red/green in rear (to let you know which side you are on)
16:03.32_sushi_How can it be glasslike when there are boats running around?
16:03.38_sushi_Or do they shine even when they are parked?
16:04.03brlcadcrew boats barely disturb the water, they sort of slice through it
16:04.16_sushi_what's a crew boat?
16:04.32brlcadif you have a good crew, you literally only see small concentric puddles where the oars went in and a small V behind the boat
16:04.58_sushi_and if you have a bad crew?
16:06.41brlcadhttp://www2.sacschool.com/uploads/images/Rowing%20Club%20-%20Facilities.jpg
16:07.10brlcadthen the water is just distrubed a little more, not quite as precise
16:07.17_sushi_how much watt do you generate when rowing?
16:07.38_sushi_I mean net mechanical output on the body->boat interface
16:08.07brlcadyeah, I know what you mean -- I forget the actual numbers
16:08.45brlcadrowing is actually rated as one of the highest VO2 maxing sports out there as it activates almost every muscle in the body
16:09.17_sushi_I think about 5 sports are now rated as the higest VO2max
16:09.24_sushi_swimming cycling etc.
16:09.29_sushi_depends on who you are talking to
16:09.45_sushi_I am sure you ask a programmer he will tell you programming is the highest VO2 maxing sport out there
16:10.05brlcaddon't have the reference, but like the top 10 VO2-max tested athletes is something like half rowers and half cylists
16:10.19_sushi_Does it also activate the ear drum tension muscle?
16:10.26brlcadheh
16:10.27_sushi_yeah lance armstrong
16:10.39_sushi_his body is directly oxidizing steroidz
16:11.10_sushi_lance always wins because the other cyclists puncture on the hypodermic needles he leaves behind
16:11.48brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VO2_max#VO2_max_Levels has a little tidbit about the max capacity of rowers in the third paragraph
16:12.51_sushi_<PROTECTED>
16:12.57_sushi_I am sure I must be the other group
16:14.13_sushi_Siberian dogs running in the Iditarod Trail Sled Dog Race sled race have VO2 values as high as 240 ml/kg/min.
16:14.20_sushi_I think we need some genetic conditioning
16:14.54brlcadmine has more than doubled in the past when I've gone from static (being a lazy punk) to training mode (2x per day, 6 days per week)
16:15.12_sushi_how old were you when you did it?
16:15.13brlcadtook more than a season
16:15.38brlcadmid-20's
16:15.48_sushi_I started to go to work on bike
16:15.56_sushi_I threw out my municipal transport prepaid
16:16.03_sushi_I don't know if this increases my VO2max
16:16.08_sushi_but I stopped feeling like zombie
16:16.13_sushi_and I need less hours of sleep
16:16.16_sushi_and my face looks better
16:16.30_sushi_I go comfortable pace
16:16.37_sushi_As fast as comfortable
16:16.47brlcadresting heart rate is often correlated -- did your HR decrease?
16:16.55brlcadif it did, VO2 almost certainly incrased
16:16.56_sushi_I don't know
16:17.41_sushi_I am too lazy to measure
16:17.42*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.134.36)
16:19.47_sushi_brlcad: can a comfotable physicalactivityincreaqse VO2max?
16:20.54madantincrease in VO2max by comfort ..don't think so :)
16:21.06_sushi_torture is necessary?
16:21.36madanthaha.. well not torture per se.. i hear high intensity interval training is pretty effective
16:21.52_sushi_what is that?
16:22.11madantweirdly remember the quote "Pain is inevitable, Suffering is Optional"
16:23.10madantwell interval training is when you do say 20 seconds of strenuous work followed by 10 seconds of recovery.. or some similar interval.. :)
16:23.20madanthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_training
16:23.20brlcad_sushi_: yeah, I don't think you can without increasing your anaerobic threshold
16:23.25_sushi_like strenuous dishwashing?
16:23.28brlcad(which is akin to torture)
16:23.54brlcadloves interval training when at the gym
16:23.55madant_sushi_: can imagine dishwashing being pretty strenuous :D
16:24.02_sushi_brlcad: I don't understand do you think comfotable bike ride increases my Vo2 max?
16:24.14brlcaddon't like interval when out on the road though for some reason
16:24.21brlcad_sushi_: no, I don't
16:24.31brlcadI think it maintains your max
16:24.38brlcadplenty of other benefits, of course
16:24.47brlcadjust not your max oxygen capacity
16:24.49_sushi_can you die from having low VO2max?
16:24.53brlcadat least not after a couple weeks
16:24.53madantI don't like going to the gym :) more of a bodyweight exercise person :D
16:25.15brlcad_sushi_: heh, of suffocation, sure :)
16:25.24madanthaha :D
16:25.24brlcadVO2max == 0.0L/min
16:25.28_sushi_lol
16:25.45_sushi_that must be my figure
16:25.46_sushi_or negative
16:26.07brlcadit's exceptionally low, though .. try breathing through a coffee stirring straw .. see how long you can keep it up
16:26.19brlcadgenerally not enough for most people
16:27.06brlcadyou can adjust to crazy low values, though
16:27.09_sushi_I once run 12km in 55 minutes
16:27.12_sushi_and it was comfortable
16:27.17brlcadfolks living in high-altitudes do it all the time
16:27.26_sushi_if I leave out stress on the knees
16:27.33_sushi_So it doesn't increase my VO2max>?
16:28.45brlcadno, that just increases your cardiovascular efficiency, aerobic capacity
16:28.52_sushi_omg
16:28.56brlcadto increase your max, you have to press your anaerobic capacity
16:29.02_sushi_aha
16:29.17_sushi_like in gym?
16:29.18brlcad(while sustaining/increasing aerobic)
16:29.25brlcadheh, doesn't matter where
16:29.36_sushi_weight lifting is anaerobic
16:29.43brlcadyes, usually is
16:29.50_sushi_does it increase VO2max?
16:29.53brlcadyou can actually do aerobic weight lifting
16:29.56brlcadit just looks silly
16:30.27_sushi_fortunatelly gay guys on dates don't test VO2max
16:30.31_sushi_they just test muscle mass
16:30.33brlcadit rarely does afaik simply because you end up taking so many breaks -- you don't sustain/increase your aerobic, it decreases if you only lift
16:30.38_sushi_and training for that is comfortable for me :)
16:31.00brlcadif you did circuit training though, you probably could increase it
16:31.10_sushi_circuit training?
16:31.15_sushi_I do circuit design
16:31.42brlcadheh, not the same thing
16:31.48_sushi_what is it?
16:31.56brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_training
16:32.47brlcadbasically sort of like weight lifting with NO breaks
16:33.15madantlongs to go beyond the 6 minute mile
16:33.18brlcadyou have to lift less weight because eventually you'll be out of breath as your muscles are activated
16:33.32brlcadmadant: 6min?  that's pretty damn good
16:33.43madanter.. 6:12 :D
16:33.51_sushi_can do it on a bicycle
16:33.52brlcadfor casual gym go-er at least
16:33.58brlcadheh
16:34.05_sushi_I am always amused when I realize
16:34.10madantbut after that mile i am pretty bust :D
16:34.27_sushi_when I cough up blood it's just a barely average untrained person performance
16:34.47_sushi_Maybe something is wrong with my body
16:35.04_sushi_some chemical is missing in some chain?
16:35.14madantyou cough up blood ?
16:35.29_sushi_I don't mean it literally
16:35.37madantah thought so :D
16:36.04madanthas a bad sense of humor
16:36.07brlcadmy best mile was somewhere around 4:50 iirc
16:36.20madantbrlcad: awesome :)
16:36.25brlcadbut that was back in HS/college, no fucking way now :)
16:36.37brlcadmy knees would explode
16:36.42louipchmm! mged -c doesn't even offer ogl as an attach option in my latest build
16:36.58brlcadlouipc: yeah, current trunk defaults ogl off for now
16:37.07brlcadbecause of a couple bugs.. :)
16:37.15_sushi_brlcad: that was with rocket engine in the ass?
16:37.17madantbrlcad: for me still pretty much VO2max is the issue.. legs are ok ;)
16:37.35madanthahah :D
16:38.12_sushi_Rule #1: if the spoon doesn't stand in your protein shake, you'll not build up any muscles
16:38.30_sushi_I thought I'll die when we had running on the high school
16:38.40_sushi_I guess for me even youth didn't help
16:39.03_sushi_I just decided to triple the amount of protein in my shakes
16:39.09madant_sushi_: :) i have never had protein shakes :D and i don't have big muscles either :D but they are growing.. just takes longer i guess .. and size strength correlation is very fuzzy :)
16:39.12louipcbrlcad: ahh
16:39.18_sushi_Maybe I'll be able to put on some nanograms of muscle mass
16:39.25madantnot to mention size-strength-endurance :D
16:39.44_sushi_madant:  in me, protein shakes grow probably only fat
16:40.02_sushi_I can select if I want to be bones-skin or bones-fat-skin
16:40.09madantis a dumbo on the nutrition front
16:40.22_sushi_If the cycle that synthesizes muscle were implemented in me, it would help
16:41.19_sushi_my doctor said I have "slim heart" and that I am "generally asthenic"
16:41.30_sushi_I guess it's just a medical word for "your DNA is crap"
16:41.37madant:D
16:42.05_sushi_or "half of the protein codes that make a functioning male from you are overwritten by a random garbage"
16:45.35_sushi_Is there a way how to monitor your total muscle mass?
16:46.55louipcdip yourself in chocolate
16:49.52_sushi_and slurp it all up?
16:50.37louipcyou would have to know the mass of your fat/bone/skin/organs and subtract it from your total mass. hmm
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17:57.03brlcadwoo hoo, subversion 1.6 is out
18:01.31starseekerawesome
18:01.39starseekerchecks subversion new features list
18:03.01starseekerhmm... tree conflicts
18:04.19starseekerwonders how they will factor in with stable merges...
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18:05.06brlcadinteractive conflict resolution
18:05.06starseekeryay - improved interactive conflict resolution at command line
18:06.21starseekersqlite is now required
18:13.40starseekeris reminded of other potential uses for sqlite and looks up its docs...
18:14.58brlcadtis very simple to use, pretty tiny lib
19:27.36*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@64.74.225.82)
19:37.15brlcadhello BigAToo
20:23.17*** join/#brlcad mota__ (n=mota@117.199.117.93)
20:23.28*** part/#brlcad mota__ (n=mota@117.199.117.93)
20:24.50*** join/#brlcad anirudhsharma (n=mota@117.199.117.93)
20:25.02anirudhsharmahi any mentors around here
20:25.13anirudhsharmahippie you there ?
20:27.21*** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=starseek@bz.bzflag.bz)
20:28.35anirudhsharmahi starseeker
20:28.38anirudhsharmaare you there
20:28.48anirudhsharmaneed to discuss my thing with you
20:28.52anirudhsharmagoogle soc idea
20:34.56hippieindamakin8anirudhsharma, yeah
20:35.29anirudhsharmawhat's your name dude ?
20:35.30starseekeranirudhsharma:  what's up?
20:35.37anirudhsharmapretty good , yeah
20:36.33anirudhsharmahey dude
20:36.41anirudhsharmawhen do the mentors come online
20:36.48anirudhsharmaneed to discuss my idea with them
20:37.06anirudhsharmasince my exams are going on , i can't really :) hehe
20:48.30brlcadtries to go into more detail for daniel
20:50.01brlcad~anirudhsharma--
20:50.02brlcadthat'd be interesting, use a karma point system while evaluating applicants
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22:02.08Ralithpeople always work out how to abuse quantitative systems
22:26.05*** join/#brlcad jonored (n=jonored@LAZARUS2.WIFI.WPI.EDU)
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23:19.26andrecastelogood evening everyone :)
23:21.50madantandrecatstelo: howdy.. just woke up  4: 45 am here :D
23:24.02andrecastelomadant: hehe, good evening from gmt - 3 :D
23:27.36madant:D what are u upto these days ;)
23:38.54andrecastelomadant: finishing some class projects due to next week ;)
23:39.11andrecasteloi'm trying to move 'open source development' up in the priority list
23:39.13andrecastelo:D
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090321

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090321

00:18.38*** join/#brlcad Dr_Phreakenstein (n=phreak@216.151.24.198)
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01:29.34*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-59.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
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02:17.55*** join/#brlcad schwinn434 (n=schwinn4@cpe-75-81-198-192.we.res.rr.com)
02:56.13*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@pool-173-57-39-82.dllstx.fios.verizon.net)
03:04.45yukonbobhello cadheads
03:05.10pacman87hi yukonbob
03:05.27yukonbobah ... hey pacman87  :)
03:08.33pacman87~svn
03:08.34ibotSubversion (aka SVN) is version control software that aims to be a better CVS than CVS. See http://subversion.tigris.org/.
03:08.40pacman87~cadsvn
03:08.41ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
03:10.14pacman87built a new core 2 duo system
03:10.34pacman87hopefully brlcad won't take 30+ minutes for a full compile now :)
03:27.05pacman8711 minutes
03:27.10pacman87and i forgot to add -j
03:46.39*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.139.116)
04:51.11madanthey pacman87 :) long time no see
04:51.21madantwhat was ur last system ?
06:07.43*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.139.116)
06:18.31*** join/#brlcad jazy (n=d24bfcad@bz.bzflag.bz)
06:19.44jazytest
06:41.07*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
08:29.30*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.129.32)
08:30.40*** join/#brlcad wojtekszkutnik (n=Wojtek@aenb203.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
08:30.57wojtekszkutnikhello
08:32.04wojtekszkutnikI'm considering brl-cad for my gsoc 2009 project and was wondering if I could get any details on the "Web-based solid geometry model repository"
08:33.58madanthi wojtekszkutnik , i am not a mentor , but any specific queries ?
08:35.21madant~help
08:36.05wojtekszkutnikhmm, I'm a web developer so this is the only task I'm considering, I was wondering what features the repository is supposed to have
08:36.22wojtekszkutnikand what kind of intergration with existing tools is expected
08:37.33madanthave you ever used brl-cad before ?
08:38.03*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
08:38.23madantbrl-cad has a vast array of tools ..
08:39.08madantbrlcad (Sean) will be able to tell you better regarding what exactly is expected.. he will be back .. stick around ;)
08:40.23madantwojtekszkutnik, offtopic, tell me the name of a nice polish band / music i could listen to :D
08:40.33wojtekszkutniknever used brl-cad but I guess I could learn pretty fast
08:40.36wojtekszkutnikhmm
08:40.57wojtekszkutnikit depends what kind of music you like
08:41.08madantwojtekszkutnik, am sure you could learn it fast.. even if mged has a pretty steep learning curve ;)
08:41.23madantnot metal :D
08:41.29madantsomething melodic :)
08:41.48madantnot too much electric guitar and all that :)
08:42.10madanthave u checked out the code and tried building it ;) ?
08:42.15madant~cadsvn
08:42.16ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
08:42.37wojtekszkutniknot yet, was just checking out some projects and saw the repository task ;)
08:43.05wojtekszkutnikhmmh, I could recommend you some pretty decent metal or rock bands
08:43.08wojtekszkutnikoooh I know
08:43.09wojtekszkutnikw8
08:43.16madantk :) i was a gsoc participant last year.. brl-cad is a kewl org to work with :)
08:43.30wojtekszkutnikI'm 2008 GHOP winner
08:43.31wojtekszkutnik;)
08:43.38madanthehe.. awesome ;)
08:43.56madantwhich project did you do :) ?
08:44.09wojtekszkutnikSilverStripe
08:44.21wojtekszkutnikunfortunately they were not accepted for GSoC this year
08:44.46madantah.. I can see now.. Silverstripe GrandPrize winner :)
08:44.56madanthttp://code.google.com/opensource/ghop/2007-8/grandprize.html
08:45.18wojtekszkutnikindeed :)
08:45.36wojtekszkutnikmadant, do you like jazz?
08:45.40madantsure
08:46.04madantblog.apocalypse.pl dns trouble ?
08:46.33wojtekszkutnikforgot about this one tbh :P
08:46.43wojtekszkutnikI'll fix it, links from google.com are pretty useful
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08:47.26wojtekszkutnikyou should try http://www.last.fm/music/Kroke
08:47.58madantis http://www.last.fm/user/madant
08:48.14wojtekszkutnikis http://last.fm/user/pirate-pl
08:48.54wojtekszkutnikhttp://www.lastfm.pl/music/Krzysztof+Komeda/Rosemary's+Baby
08:50.21wojtekszkutnikhttp://www.lastfm.pl/music/Tomasz+Stańko+Quartet
08:50.21wojtekszkutnikhttp://www.lastfm.pl/music/Pink+Freud
08:50.27madanthehe.. there is a band called Pink Freud :D
08:50.31madantnice :D
08:51.26wojtekszkutnikthey're pretty funny ;)
08:51.55madantso now u are in a university ?
08:52.14wojtekszkutniknot yet but I'm starting this year so I'm eglible to SoC
08:52.17wojtekszkutnikhttp://www.last.fm/music/Leszek+Możdżer
08:53.30wojtekszkutnikhttp://www.last.fm/music/Smolik
08:53.47wojtekszkutnikhttp://www.last.fm/music/Anna+Maria+Jopek
08:53.50wojtekszkutnikshould be enough ;)
08:54.25madant;) thanks
08:55.09wojtekszkutnikno problem, just message me via last.fm if you liked it :)
08:55.43madantsure thing ? so have u been toying around with silvestripe since ghop ?
08:56.03madants/sure thing?/ sure thing! :)
08:56.17wojtekszkutnikyeah, I developed some themes for it
08:56.25wojtekszkutnikwrote some sites based on it
08:56.27wojtekszkutniketc
08:57.25madantis off to take a nap
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08:57.53madantlook forward to seeing a lot of discussion abt web respository on irc and the mailing list soon ;)
08:58.00brlcadtoo
08:58.08brlcad(can't talk now though)
08:59.49brlcadand (aww, http://blog.apocalypse.pl/ is down)
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10:20.06csanyipalHi
10:21.05csanyipalI have now Debian GNU/Linux Lenny op. system and want to install on it BRL-CAD from SVN.
10:21.35csanyipalI have downloaded the sources and did sh autogen.sh and configure.
10:21.47csanyipalWhen I do make I get an error message:
10:22.00csanyipalcolor.c:27:22: error: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory
10:22.13csanyipalcolor.c:32: error: expected ')' before '*' token
10:22.23csanyipalcolor.c:33: error: expected ')' before '*' token
10:22.26csanyipaletc.
10:22.34csanyipalmake[2]: *** [libdm_la-color.lo] Error 1
10:22.46csanyipalmake[2]: Leaving directory `/debian-adatok-1/CAD/BRL-CAD/Letoltese/SVN/brlcad/src/libdm'
10:22.53csanyipalmake[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
10:23.03csanyipalmake[1]: Leaving directory `/debian-adatok-1/CAD/BRL-CAD/Letoltese/SVN/brlcad/src'
10:23.09csanyipalmake: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
10:23.15csanyipalThat's all.
10:23.31csanyipalIs there a solution for this problem?
10:24.14csanyipalI must go now, but I'll return much later..
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10:41.26madantcsanyipal: install libx11-dev ? ( sudo apt-get install libx11-dev)
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13:00.39hippieindamakin8checks the logs and is happy to find more people using silverstripe
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14:51.30pacman87madant: my old system was a 2.8 ghz P4, 533MHz FSB, 1280 MB DDR RAM (PC2700)
14:52.14pacman87now i have a 3 GHz core 2 duo (E8400), with 4GB DDR2-1066MHz
14:52.24madantboth sound not that bad ;)
14:52.40madantsecond one is obviously awesome :D
14:52.44pacman87yeah
14:53.05pacman87built it for $700 ish
14:53.06madantwhich motherboard do u use ?
14:54.06pacman87http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?Source=MSWD&WishListNumber=9835788
14:57.03madantAsus video cards are good ?
14:57.18pacman87i haven't had any trouble
14:57.24pacman87fan is quiet
15:01.31pacman87my last gfx card was a PCI geforce 6200
15:01.48pacman87fan got really noisy after ~2 years
15:02.14pacman87so i replaced the fan/heatsink with a northbridge heatsink
15:02.36pacman87temps went up ~8C
15:02.43pacman87at idle
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15:57.55hippieindamakin8brlcad, hey
15:58.44hippieindamakin8starseeker, hey
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16:00.21hippieindamakin8madant, a good polish band to listen to is riverside. they are very melodic and progressive w.r.t their compositions
16:11.44madanthippieindamakin8, will check them out ;-
16:11.56madantoff to bed
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18:15.06csanyipalmadant: I just installed libx11-dev, and did make clean, sh autogen.sh, ./configure, and make but get again another error message:
18:15.22csanyipalcollect2: ld returned 1 exit status
18:15.33csanyipalmake[2]: *** [btclsh] Error 1
18:15.44csanyipalmake[2]: Leaving directory `/debian-adatok-1/CAD/BRL-CAD/Letoltese/SVN/brlcad/src/bwish'
18:16.01csanyipalmake[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
18:16.11csanyipalmake[1]: Leaving directory `/debian-adatok-1/CAD/BRL-CAD/Letoltese/SVN/brlcad/src'
18:16.19csanyipalmake: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090322

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090322

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10:57.22csanyipalHowdy
11:03.55csanyipalStill I can't to install brlcad on to my Debian Lenny system using SVN.
11:04.47csanyipalI have installed now libx11-dev but get another error message:
11:05.04csanyipal<PROTECTED>
11:05.10csanyipalmake[2]: *** [btclsh] Error 1
11:05.14csanyipaletc.
11:05.39csanyipalWhat package should I install to solve this problem?
12:27.42louipccsanyipal: it might be helpful to see some of the previous lines of build output.
13:16.14madantcsanyipal, and most probably the btclsh error can be fixed by using --enable-all during the configure
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13:48.12brahimHi
13:48.29brahimIs there any mentor that can answer my questions?
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14:06.08hippieindamakin8hey madant
14:37.19madanthey hippieindamakin8  :)
14:37.31madantcouldn't listen to riverside will check out now ;)
14:44.51hippieindamakin8been trying to talk to brlcad (sean) or smbody abt the boundary evaluation problem
14:48.02hippieindamakin8madant, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uItqFhe56Rw&feature=related  this is a good song
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15:26.38csanyipalloupic, madant: here is the output of the error after I have configured with --enable-all and did make:
15:26.42csanyipal/home/csanyipal/CAD/BRL-CAD/Letoltese/SVN/brlcad/src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XFreeDeviceList'
15:26.53csanyipal/home/csanyipal/CAD/BRL-CAD/Letoltese/SVN/brlcad/src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XOpenDevice'
15:27.01csanyipal/home/csanyipal/CAD/BRL-CAD/Letoltese/SVN/brlcad/src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XSelectExtensionEvent'
15:27.08csanyipal/home/csanyipal/CAD/BRL-CAD/Letoltese/SVN/brlcad/src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XListInputDevices'
15:27.16csanyipalcollect2: ld returned 1 exit status
15:27.21``Erikit's not seeing all the X libs correctly
15:27.29csanyipalmake[2]: *** [btclsh] Error 1
15:27.46csanyipalmake[2]: Leaving directory `/debian-adatok-1/CAD/BRL-CAD/Letoltese/SVN/brlcad/src/bwish'
15:27.59``Erikalso; pleased to be using http://pastebin.bzflag.bz for those
15:28.11csanyipalmake[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
15:28.26``Erikiirc, BRL-CAD requires both Xlib and Xi
15:28.36csanyipalmake[1]: Leaving directory `/debian-adatok-1/CAD/BRL-CAD/Letoltese/SVN/brlcad/src'
15:28.40``Erikyes, those all look like Xi commands
15:28.45``EriklibXi and libXi-dev
15:28.48csanyipalmake: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
15:29.01csanyipalErik: OK a'll try that
15:32.18``Erikcontinues whining about losing access to the debian box he used to have :/
15:43.15``ErikI don't think you'll need to rebuild your libdm.la, so you MIGHT be able to "cd src/bwish && make" to test
15:43.25``Erikbut I'm not sure
15:51.05piksibrlcad: ok, regarding the cooperation(?) in developing bim-like features suitable for architecture in brl-cad, who should i contact in the brl development team? is there a mailing list or some other official channel for such? I'm propably getting financial support from http://www.atl.fi/index.php?id=182
16:09.56``Erikchatting in channel or sending to brlcad-devel@ would be appropriate
16:09.58``Erik"bim"?
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16:38.25madantis stupid enough to have made gymnastic rings :P http://www.instructables.com/id/How_to_make_GymnasticsFitness_Rings_from_PVC_Cond/
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17:26.55kanzure_madant_: heh, I've been thinking about a way to export assemblies of CAD files to instructables (or an equivalent) .. such that the instructions are automatically generated. Maybe a potential BRLCAD project.
17:28.50madant_hey kanzure,
17:29.16kanzure_I'll get back to the emails later today. I'm a bit on the run at the moment.
17:29.42madant_aah.. u mean like a record option ? which automatically records the steps and generates the instructions in human readable form
17:30.04kanzure_yes
17:30.14kanzure_what do you mean by 'record'?
17:31.02kanzure_I have some links on this topic, actually. http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/msg/e6479685816e9590
17:31.07madant_just a sec :)
17:31.29kanzure_http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/msg/a5b583afade64278
17:31.36kanzure_^ that second link is a better one.
17:32.01kanzure_in particular it was spawned by the recent 'sudo make me a sandwich' robot, and some further extrapolated discussion
17:34.44kanzure_"From this design, I created a python script that creates GCode instructions for building the various kebabs. The GCode consists mainly of two parts: instructions that prompt the user to do things: thread a nut on the rod, slide on kebab parts (diagonal ties, washers, etc) and actual instructions that cause the rod to rotate a nut to exactly the right position. The end result is pretty slick: it generates a wizard that serves as both a g
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17:36.12kanzure_Of course, there's probably a few better ways than gcode to accomplish an "instruction wizard" for CAD assemblies. ;-)
17:38.44hippieindamakin8hey ``Erik_
18:08.47madant_kanzure: i meant say a button record :) which in a sense analyzes all ur following steps and generates the corresponding instructions :D
18:10.29madant_hippieindamakin8, boundary evaluation problem ?
18:11.14hippieindamakin8yeah madant_
18:11.55hippieindamakin8madant_, so u applying this year as a student again?
18:12.20madant_yes :)
18:13.18hippieindamakin8madant_, u must also be graduating this year eh ? :)
18:13.49madant_i finished my graduation last year . I will be joining a new program this year :)
18:13.58madant_took a 1 year sabbatical in between :)
18:14.12hippieindamakin8dude wish i could do that :|
18:14.17madant_what about hippieindamakin8 what are u upto ;) ?
18:14.46hippieindamakin8my parents were strictly against it when i told them that i would take a sabatical for an year :|
18:15.05hippieindamakin8dude applied here last year couldnt get through :D so apping again
18:15.07madant_hmm.. yeah understanding parents are hard to come by ;)
18:15.36hippieindamakin8madant_, u used a different nick last year dint u ?
18:15.49madant_my commit nick is homovulgaris :P
18:16.00hippieindamakin8exactly :)
18:16.06madant_which means common man.. but doesnt sound very nice i guess :D
18:16.11hippieindamakin8so i know :P
18:16.20hippieindamakin8and u are joining a grad school or wat ?
18:16.33madant_Who is Mad Ant ? is an anagram of " I, Dawn Thomas"
18:16.59hippieindamakin8like that one of lord voldemort :P
18:17.23madant_is not very well versed with Harry Potter etc.
18:17.43madant_lord voldemort is the anagram of something right ?
18:17.44hippieindamakin8hehe .. good neways it was a lame series towards the end
18:17.56madant_oh the series is over ?
18:18.12hippieindamakin8yeah his actual name. TOM <smthing> <smthing> Riddle
18:18.13hippieindamakin8madant_, yeah.
18:18.35madant_hippieindamakin8, i have a boundary evaluation trouble in libpc :)
18:18.38hippieindamakin8neways back to the problem i was interested in
18:19.26hippieindamakin8goes through the source to get into the libpc folder.
18:19.32hippieindamakin8madant_, tell me
18:20.08madant_it is about the solver.. while doing the iterations
18:20.24madant_right now it stores the state of the variables and restores it as a temporary fix :)
18:21.15hippieindamakin8is going through the pcsolver.cpp
18:21.39madant_the actual trouble is , if in a list of variables in a constraint network, the first or second variable has the lowest in its domain , it somehow doesn't iterate properly
18:22.03madant_i mean the trouble is not in pcSolver per se.. must be somewhere in pcVariable*
18:22.22hippieindamakin8ohk. as in let me understand how this is solving it :|
18:22.42madant_:)
18:23.35hippieindamakin8madant_, so u have written this lib or wat ?
18:23.50madant_yep
18:25.18madant_hippieindamakin8, sorry, were u asking me to explain the process of solving ?
18:25.27hippieindamakin8madant_, no :)
18:25.41hippieindamakin8i am trying to read up the developer doc
18:26.20hippieindamakin8madant_, i shall get back to u in sometime (shall be going through the doc)
18:28.33madant_np.. the generic solvers are simple.. it takes the list of all variables, assign a value for each variable in the set, check if the constraints are satisfied , if so adds to the solution, otherwise iterates the variable values continues the process
18:32.49hippieindamakin8madant_, isnt it libpc that is wat takes care of the p&c .the wiki i guess needs an edit (i am talking abt the proposal /developer doc )
18:34.55madant_the developer doc on libpc needs to be updated on a lot of aspects, particularly pcMath* and so on..
18:35.05madant_will be doing it before this month end
18:35.38madant_oh u mean the change from pg to pc .. ah well.. that is there :)
18:36.13hippieindamakin8madant_, and the doc is very vague :)
18:36.41madant_yeah it is from the very primitive stage :)
18:37.52madant_the effective spectrum of parametrics and constraints is pretty large .. :) in fact you have given me a good thought.. i will devote the next few days to making a proper document.. :)
18:37.55hippieindamakin8madant_, looks like you use c++ builder :)
18:38.08madant_er ? c++ builder ?
18:38.25hippieindamakin8i saw this file which includes a .hpp
18:39.47madant_not sure what u are talking about .. maybe the boost libs ?
18:39.58hippieindamakin8yeah
18:40.17hippieindamakin8boost/iterator/.............
18:41.15madant_ah hippieindamakin8 u meant c++ builder environment ? naah :)
18:41.33madant_i don't even have access to windows :) gcc and vim :)
18:41.36hippieindamakin8madant_, yeah borland's .. neways leave that
18:42.14hippieindamakin8hi5 -es madant_
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18:56.09brlcadyawns
18:56.45hippieindamakin8hey brlcad
18:57.08hippieindamakin8brlcad, how are u?
19:20.31brlcadhowdy hippieindamakin8
19:21.21hippieindamakin8brlcad, hey i wanted to talk to you abt the boundary evaluation problem
19:32.00brlcadis still waiting
19:34.33hippieindamakin8brlcad, sorry i was going through the implementation :|
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19:35.23brlcadnp :)
19:35.35brlcadirc isnt immediate
19:36.02hippieindamakin8:)
19:36.06hippieindamakin8thanks
19:43.07madant_hippieindamakin8, just so that i am not confused :D the boundary evaluation problem you are talking about is not the libpc one right :D
19:43.23hippieindamakin8brlcad, right now as i see/(as mentioned on the wiki) entire operations are done in brep and then converted to csg for display
19:43.38hippieindamakin8madant_, yeah but just wanted to check if i could do smthing there :)
19:44.45madant_ah sorry, if you saw the boundary evaluation problem trouble somewhere on the site etc. it could mean something else  , brlcad would know..
19:45.38hippieindamakin8madant_, i was a bit confused as well but neways :)
19:46.03hippieindamakin8madant_, i still dint get what you meant by the <if iteration 1 and iteration 2 have same values ..... >
19:46.17madant_i said that ? :O
19:46.55hippieindamakin8wait you said if they are lowest in the domain :| (and not same)
19:47.57madant_hippieindamakin8, i mean the trouble happens if in a particular iteration the first variable has the lowest value or something , the following iterations only keep taking into consideration the other variables.. resulting in a loop.. :D and weirdly this happens only if this lowest value in the domain thing happens as the initial state :D
19:48.05madant_blah.. that was more confusing i suppose :D
19:55.55CIA-40BRL-CAD: 0393.2.152.157 07http://brlcad.org * r1287 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: /* New geometry converter */
19:58.18CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1288 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: Undo revision 1287 by [[Special:Contributions/93.2.152.157|93.2.152.157]] ([[User talk:93.2.152.157|Talk]]) plenty other more interesting and useful converters for a gsoc project than this
20:04.38*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@rt.5.nat.stcable.net)
20:07.09brlcadif someone here made that mod and wants to discuss, speak up
20:07.47csanyipalhowdy
20:07.52brlcadhowdy csanyipal
20:07.53madant_howdy csanyipal
20:07.57madant_yikes :)
20:08.10madant_csanyipal, did the build work ?
20:08.18csanyipalno, sorry
20:08.32hippieindamakin8brlcad, madant_  can u direct me to the code which contains the brep manipulations
20:08.45madant_did u install the libXi ?
20:09.08csanyipalI did: sudo aptitude install libxi6 libxi-dev
20:09.29madant_whats the error now ? :)
20:09.41csanyipalwait a little..
20:11.48csanyipalI must now to run again make to get error message..
20:20.04hippieindamakin8brlcad, the project basically involves optimized conversion of csgs to breps and brep manipulation.
20:22.10hippieindamakin8runs out to get a quick bit before the cafeteria closes (that is in 10 mins)
20:28.22brlcadhippieindamakin8: have you tried looking yet? :)
20:29.13brlcadif you haven't tried, you shouldn't be asking -- if you have, then I'd like to hear what you've found out
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20:41.47csanyipalmadant: It's my mistake, now, when I try again to build the brlcad from svn, it's successfully installed.
20:42.04csanyipalDone.
20:42.16csanyipalBRL-CAD Release 7.14.5, Build 20090322
20:56.08csanyipalmadant: mged works. Thanks! :)
20:56.42csanyipalmadant_: mged works, thanks!
20:57.40brlcadcool
20:57.45brlcad~madant++
20:58.15kanzuremadant__: ah, well. Maybe that's the same thing.
21:02.14hippieindamakin8brlcad, going through the folder mged rt now
21:04.24hippieindamakin8checks the code in mged/sedit.h
21:06.56brlcadhippieindamakin8: you should always look *before* asking .. :)
21:07.42hippieindamakin8brlcad, i reached/checked that before asking too .
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21:08.05hippieindamakin8its taking me a bit more of time to understnd the macros
21:10.02csanyipalby for now!
21:11.16hippieindamakin8brlcad, i shall go through the exisiting code and the way the implementation is done and i shall get back to u on 23rd morning (w.r.t the east coast time)
21:11.25hippieindamakin8with a proposal
21:11.33brlcadokay
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02:09.21``Erik__fucking goddamn motherfucking
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10:31.31d-loMornin!
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11:42.23brlcadhowdy
11:49.16d-lohai!
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13:42.58``Eriktakes a few to say some impolite things to the universe.
13:44.45d-lo``Erik: Whats going on?
13:45.32``Erikhad a booboo yesterday, no car
13:45.59``Eriknose drifted on me, the sheriff thinks mebbe something in the steering linkage broke :/ ate a curb, which is a biggie on something like that
13:46.59d-loinjuries?
13:47.04``Erikgiven that the blue one had been in a frame damaging episode and the black one was ground hard by a kid who thinks subs are part of a performance car, mebbe I need to STOP buying these things used
13:47.08``Erikno, it was just a curb bump
13:47.15``Erikin your car, you woulda laughed and kept rolling
13:47.37d-loWell, different machines for different purposes.
13:48.03``ErikI'm gettin' old, man. the purpose is looking more and more like a point A to point B thing
13:48.09d-loHow bad is the insurence deductable going to be?
13:48.14``Erik1k
13:48.25``Erikand my fault, so yet more premium
13:48.25d-lois having a bad spelin day.
13:48.40d-lowell thats plain shitty.
13:49.14``ErikI can eat it... the car is paid off and I have enough to run off and buy a reasonably nice car out of pocket, but *shrug* still sucks
13:49.29d-lotake a few years off and get a good ol reliable honda.
13:49.33d-lo:)
13:49.51``Erikheh, I drove dumber in my old honda than I've done in any of the bmw's :)
13:49.58d-loDo the damage is all cosmetic?
13:50.00``Erikwas a $300 crapper, and I tore the shit out of it
13:50.09``Erikno, the front right wheel was shifted
13:50.37``Erikapparently, I hate the front starboard wheel. A  lot.
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13:50.47``Erikthat was the one I demolished in the blue one
13:51.30d-loI think you need to start driving in the middle of the road.  Keep those curbs equidistant ;)
13:51.47``Erikyeah, y'know, folk around here don't appreciate that missoura style driving
13:52.04archivistjust concentrate on driving!
13:52.16``Erikbackroads of the ozarks, people seriously drive in the middle and only move to the side when there's oncoming traffic
13:52.37``ErikI was concentrating! I just went around the corner to buy a pizza :( the nose drifted out when it REALLY should not have
13:53.01``ErikI mean, I stop, I turn right, the nose slides... wtf, it's a rear wheel vehicle, if I was being stupid, the ass woulda gave out
13:53.04``Eriker
13:53.06``Erikturn left
13:53.11``Erik(across traffic)
13:53.44d-loThe only accident I have ever been in involved the steering column giving out.... so I know the drill :/
13:53.45``Erikstarts wondering if some of the debris he collected was not his own and that's what he tagged and slid on O.o
13:54.41d-lo....you could get a Tesla!
13:55.04``Erikat the moment, I'm trying to figure out if it'd be more economically viable to buy a used car and sell it when I get my m back, or rent one
13:55.05``Erikheh
13:55.15``Eriktesla's are nice, but they have competition in their niche now :)
13:55.38d-loDoes your insurance cover rentals?
13:55.47``Erikand I kinda like the comfort factor more than the go-kart factor :/ I'm old
13:55.53``Erikno
13:55.57d-lofeck
13:56.04``Eriksupposedly, allstate has a discount agreement with enterprise
13:56.07d-loand the BMW dealer doesn't have a loner?
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13:56.10``Erikbut I didn't pay for rental coverage
13:56.37``ErikI'm sure they do, and they'd probably give me one and a handjob given how much money I've given them, but I'm waiting for the inspector to look over my car
13:56.51d-lothats the way it always goes, isn't it....
13:57.04``Erikindeed
13:57.18d-loinspector = insurance adjustor?
13:57.21``ErikI need to push this lisp shit so'z I can get a positive cash flow and retire here :) never drive again heh
13:57.34``Erikum, she called him an inspector, but I'm sure it's the same
13:57.54``Erikjob is to look over the vehicle and come up with an estimate and options on repair/replacement(iftotalled)
13:59.05``ErikI'm hoping it's just a matter of some new a-frames, wheel, tire, air dam, fender, and some steering stuff
13:59.27d-loah, okay.  inspector == adjustor.
13:59.41d-loso, how did the Po-Po call it?
13:59.59``Erikthe sheriff figured that something in the steering probably broke
13:59.59d-loFailure to control vehicle or something?
14:00.04``Erikno ticket
14:00.12d-lono fault!  awesome.
14:00.15``Erikgave me a ride home
14:00.19d-lo:)
14:00.21``Erikinsurance is saying it's all my fault, of course
14:00.35d-lowell, they have to bill someone :(
14:00.42``Erikof course
14:00.53d-loits not like those monthly payments you make actually mean anything...
14:01.00``Erikdoubt I'd have much of a court case, though
14:01.16``Erikheh, dude, after the blue one, I'm so far ahead I just don't care
14:01.55brlcador two!
14:01.59d-loWell, if you work closely with the mechanics, you might be able to have them 'officially state' the failure.  Could help keep your rates down.
14:02.11``Erikperhaps
14:02.15``ErikI intend to be involved
14:02.25``Erikhey, brlcad, can I borrow your car for a bit? ;)
14:02.35d-lobrlcad: get to swim today? ;)
14:02.38archivistmethinks NO
14:02.45brlcadd-lo: almost!
14:02.52brlcadguy right next to me did
14:03.04``Erikswim?
14:03.15``Erikoh, was this a rowwing morning?
14:03.19``Erikrowing, even
14:03.21archivistfell in
14:03.26brlcadwe were on the docks and I was pushing one of the eight-man boats away from the docks
14:03.39brlcadhigh winds, it was drifting back into the docks and towards our boat
14:04.00brlcadI slip slightly, but got my footing, then I hear *splash*
14:04.09d-lodoh!
14:04.10brlcadmy bowman was in the water
14:04.16``Erikdo you wear surf shoes when you do that?
14:04.31brlcadno, there are shoes in the boat
14:04.38``Erik(guy? as a bowman? I thought they were usually skinny chicks)
14:04.53brlcadso folks are usually in shoes or flip flops, and take them off to get strapped into the boat
14:05.07``Eriks/are shoes/are no shoes/ ?
14:05.29brlcad8-man boat, I was in "2 seat", so there's one buy behind me in "1 seat" aka "bow seat", also the "bow man"
14:05.53``Erikwouldn't that be... a stern man? :D
14:05.54brlcad``Erik: no, there ARE shoes attached to the boat
14:05.59``Erikohhhh
14:06.03brlcadno, they go backwards :)
14:06.40``Erikponders turtling when your shoes are bolted to the boat O.o
14:06.54brlcadanyways, basically a guy fell off the docks and into the water
14:07.05brlcadice freaking cold, 10mph winds
14:07.16brlcadpretty funny, it happens
14:07.36d-lo``Erik: Shoes glued to boat == incentive not to sink.  Its a throw back to the viking days :)
14:07.40``Erikwas in a canoe that rolled in lagoon in mebbe 20f, UNfun
14:07.46brlcadd-lo: hehe, indeed
14:08.08brlcadthey are all "quick release" velcro style in case the boat flips
14:08.16``Erikupside down, wet, freezing... everything goes crazy
14:08.45d-lo20 degree water will confuse pretty quick :)
14:08.45brlcadone of the things you get tested for in order to row alone, flipping the boat fully strapped in
14:09.17``Erikassumed the boat was a simple aluminium monocoque structure, didn't think there'd be shoes glued in :)
14:09.26d-loHrm, is that a 'phobia?
14:09.33brlcadthere's barely any metal on them boats
14:09.37brlcadthat'd be insane
14:09.41``Erik20f air temp, I'm sure the water was a bit warmer
14:09.44brlcadand heavy
14:09.59``Erikhm, all fiberglass now?
14:10.04brlcadthey're all fibreglass/composites -- just the oar riggers are metal
14:10.17``Erikpheers nanotube boats
14:10.19brlcadsome older boats are thin wood (and insanely heavy)
14:10.40``Erikaight, I d'no rowing :) canoes and day sailors
14:10.52``Erikso I'm kinda assuming a lot of canoe traits
14:10.53brlcadthey're like bicycles .. the price jacks up really fast to save just a couple pounds weight
14:11.53d-loonly knows boats with a sink/surface ratio == 1.0 ;)
14:12.23``ErikI thought the person with the box facing 'the wrong way' was called the bowman? is that a... cockswain?
14:12.23brlcadyeah, not really the same construction at all -- most crew boats are so light that you're only allowed to step on just one part in the boat
14:12.24brlcadotherwise it's so thin, you can step right through it
14:12.26``Erik<-- too weak to row, too fat to be a cockswain :)
14:12.32brlcadheh, coxswain
14:12.44``Erikcock
14:12.45``Erikswain
14:13.02``Erikshe's a cock swan, and you know it :> *duck*
14:13.14``Eriksorry, I'll behave O:-)
14:13.28brlcadoh, most of them are shorty cuties (the girls at least)
14:14.22d-lophears short girls who can beat most men at arm wrestling 8-|
14:14.50``Erikcoxswain doesn't row, they face the other way and give instructions
14:14.52``Erikiirc
14:15.00archivistadmits watching the ladies 8's in Cambridge UK entertaining
14:15.30d-lonew book:  "How to beat a joke to death"  by ``Erik .
14:15.44starseeker``Erik:  given your luck with cars, maybe we should get you a motorcycle :-)
14:15.48``Erikoh... that was a joke? :>
14:15.57``Eriktrying to kill me off, cliff???
14:16.15d-lostarseeker: I was thinking an uparmored MRAP vehicle.
14:16.17archivistyou dont need help
14:16.23``Erikwas on the phone with my mom this morning, she said I needed a jeep, I told her I need a tonka truck
14:16.34starseeker``Erik:  In such a vehicle you would be compelled to drive carefully ;-)
14:16.58d-loI can see ``Erik  in a jeep.  That fits.
14:17.09starseekermy grandparents have an old 70s caddy - good luck flipping that sucker
14:17.18``Erikthe nose drifted! it was effin' weird, the sheriff said that something probably broke as I was cornering!
14:17.19d-lo33" mudders... 152 KC lamps on the double rollbar...
14:17.42``ErikI mean, from a stop, across a left turn, in a rwd... the nose drifts
14:17.43``Erikwtf?
14:18.03brlcad<PROTECTED>
14:18.05starseekerhmm - well, we could get you one of those racing cars that can blow apart and leave the driver intact
14:18.16starseekerbrlcad:  uh, oh - is he sick?
14:18.20``Erikhow's the dog doing? still trying to stick his nose in fire?
14:18.27brlcadstarseeker: no, he's dying
14:18.32starseeker:-(
14:18.33``Erikstarseeker: that's what I have.
14:18.37``Erikhe's what, 17 now?
14:18.42brlcadhe's just very old, conjestive heart failure
14:18.47brlcadyeah, 17
14:18.49starseekerbrlcad:  sorry to hear that
14:18.52d-lohell, that sucks.
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14:19.04``Erikblind, deaf, .. a fighter
14:19.04starseekerremembers what it was like losing his dog when he was young
14:19.05brlcadmost days are good, but last night wasn't one of them
14:19.28brlcadhe's coming into a higher dosage of meds now, but need to keep an eye on him
14:19.47starseekeryou don't find a better friend than a good dog
14:20.05``Eriksure can smell out a piece of hotdog that fell, though heh :)
14:20.06d-lobrlcad: Are you going to let nature take its course or are you going to have him put down?
14:20.22brlcadd-lo: depends
14:20.47starseeker``Erik:  heh, no kidding.
14:21.05brlcadwill let nature take it's course unless he's suffering for more than a day or two
14:21.36starseeker's dog used to follow us around whenever we brought food out - figured out pretty quick that small kids dropped food a fairly high percentage of the time
14:21.41d-lobrlcad: we made the same choice when it came to Sandy's 15 y/o cat.  
14:21.59brlcadhe's only had two brief episodes where he's what I'd consider suffering, only to get better the next days (and stay better for a couple months afterwards)
14:22.33d-lowell thats good then.
14:22.58``Erikat j-lo's bday a couple years ago, we went to the park off the road to the island, brlcad's dog kept trying to shove his face into the coals to get at grease drippings and bits of hotdogs and hamburgers :)
14:23.11starseekerow
14:23.22starseekerj-lo?
14:23.35``Erikwow, a couple years ago heh :( nettie was preggo iirc, and twingy's gf was visiting or something
14:24.19starseekerdogs are crazy for food even when they can see
14:24.57``Erikgoogles for "dognip"
14:25.05brlcadhe would have totally gone for that food even with his eyesight
14:25.07``Erikhuh, whuddya know, "meat"
14:25.12starseekerours was given a piece of cake for his birthday once - he ate it in one gulp, realized what it was and proceeded to spend the next 10 minutes chasing the plate all over the yard licking at it
14:25.20brlcadand probably gotten it without getting hurt even, but didn't want to risk it with him blind
14:25.57``Erikplus the issue of the grill burning the top of his head :( poor little guy
14:26.37brlcadbarney lives to eat, the days he can't eat are the days I know he's not happy.. when there are fewer happy days than unhappy days, it'll be time
14:27.17starseekernods
14:27.34``Erikhe's a good little guy, I'm glad I got to meet him :)
14:28.06brlcadstarseeker: couple years ago I accidentally dropped an entire buffalo wing (drumstick) .. big one too .. barney snatched it up and swallowed it whole in about half a second
14:28.18starseekerhehe
14:28.20``Erikwow, that musta hurt the next day
14:28.20brlcadI just blinked in disbelief, moment of panic, more disbelief
14:28.33brlcadnope, didn't even phase him
14:28.48starseekerhas concluded that "gulp then taste" approach is common to most dogs
14:29.03starseekerat least, until they get fed an onion
14:29.18``Erikhah
14:29.24brlcadthing is, he's a tiny dog .. I swear the drumstick was bigger than his mouth
14:29.36starseekerwow
14:29.36brlcadlike a snake, detached that jaw and sucked it down
14:29.37``Erikgf's son just decided he likes onion a lot, still trying to puzzle that one out
14:30.06starseekerhas fought the good fight against onions for 20 years ;-)
14:30.22starseekerbrlcad:  impressive :-) that would have made a great video
14:30.30``ErikI used to hate them, decided I love 'em... nice bulking item
14:30.39``Erikheh, youtube ftw? O.o
14:31.05starseekerdepending on the dog/drumstick size ratio, could have made america's funniest
14:31.12``Erikhe swallowed the bone?
14:31.30d-lo"Drumstick/Dog size ratio" ......lol
14:31.47starseekernew standard unit
14:32.21starseekeralrightie, time to stick the bills in the mail (ouch)
14:32.21``Erikmy car gets 32 kfc drumsticks to the poodle, and that's how I like it!
14:32.22brlcad``Erik: he swallowed the drumstick thing whole, one swipe
14:32.40brlcadnice big breaded one from pats
14:33.21starseeker``Erik:  I wouldn't tell the SPCA you consider poodles a unit of distance ;-)
14:33.22``Erik'k, I'm not a chicken eater, it has chemical reprecussions... so'z help me out here, there was bone inside of what your dog swallowed?
14:33.33``Erikunit of volume, starseeker, get it right
14:33.50starseekerwell, from the standpoint of a car...
14:36.29d-loI *think* the next Top Gear is the one where they are going to be road testing the Tesla and a bunch of other 'alternate' fuel cars... i really wanna see that one.
14:37.11``Erikwould rather just work from home and have the needed stores be walking distance :(
14:37.39brlcad``Erik: yes, a pretty big one
14:37.58``Erikbrlcad: and he... didn't have issue passing it? O.O
14:38.25d-lo``Erik: would like to see a nation wide system of pneumatic tubes.  Even if they only moved things and not people.  *THOOMP* "Honey!  Pizza's here!"
14:38.28``ErikI'm thinkin' something mebbe 15 cm long
14:38.33``Erik10-15
14:38.49``Erik*thoomp* wait, suicide booth? BITE MY SHINEY METAL ASS
14:38.53d-lolol
14:39.19_sushi_lol
14:39.29_sushi_I have a pneumatic tube on my bicycle
14:39.33_sushi_Makes a smooth ride
14:40.11``Erikdave, I think I have my lithp distance calculator working correctly, I need to test it out some... if it works, then I can do a pretty simple a* style 'best path' solver
14:40.23d-lolithp? haha
14:40.39``Eriklithp, yeth. yethterdayth flight gave me thome coding time
14:40.40d-loSexy!
14:41.18``Erikonce I have teh fng data in, I'm thinking the appropriate algo is to:
14:41.48``Eriktake the subset of jg's higher than current. For each, solve which is the shortest time to terminal desination.
14:42.08``ErikGiven the best single move, repeat.
14:42.57``Erikreasonable?
14:43.05d-loHrm, whats the problem you are trying to solve?  I don't see it.
14:43.26``Erikum, I have a fleet at alpha, I want to get to beta... what's the fastest I can get there?
14:43.33``Erikgive me the convoluted path
14:43.39brlcad``Erik: sorta like these: (but a lil bigger)  http://www.ironhorsepa.com/wings.jpg
14:44.04``Erikthere's nothing in that image to confer size
14:44.10brlcadno trouble passing it at all (he's used to eating tons of wierd stuff -- he used to eat almost whatever I ate)
14:44.26``Erikscale, rather
14:44.53d-lookay got it.  How does the logic handle if yoru fleet isn't on a FNG controlled planet?  or a planet without a JG?
14:45.23d-lobrlcad: damn it, now I am hungry.
14:45.28``Erikd-lo: say I have fleet in a sector on no jg, there's a l2 jg in the secor, there's an l9 jg in the region, I want to go to a new galaxy... I assume my algo will tell me to jump to the l2, then jump to the l9, then jump to the target
14:45.47``Erik0 is a valid number, I'm not roman.
14:46.04brlcadd-lo: me too!
14:46.20d-lo``Erik: okay, cool.  Then yes, sounds reasonable.
14:46.21``Erik*sob* and I ain't got no car to meet up
14:46.43d-loThe 'distance' logic in AE is rather stupid if I remember correctly.
14:46.46``ErikI'm fighting the urge to over-engineer and bring up guild-hopping, though I'd like it
14:46.52d-lo``Erik: I'll fly if you buy :)
14:46.57``Erikstupid stupid, not stupid easy
14:47.04``ErikI'm ~45 minutes from post
14:47.28d-loeh, its monday.  quiet as death around here.
14:47.41``Erikthere're 3 distinct computation paths for intergalactic distance
14:47.46``Erikit's fugly
14:48.05d-loi remember finding an image that showed the basics of 'distance'
14:48.13d-loI personally thought it was stupid
14:48.16``ErikI think I pasted tat pentagram around
14:48.51``Erikit's what made me look for a x5, so I could maximize my trade partners
14:50.05``Erikif'n someone wants to cruise by to pick me up and head to something like duclaws or la tolteca or soemthing, I'll buy their lunch... it's a trip, though
14:50.13``Erikso'z I don't expect any takers :)
14:50.43d-loI hven't seen any coordination here for lunch... yet.
14:51.51``Erikif I'm gonna be involved, coordination has to be, like, now. :) it's all cool, I mean, I'm too far away
14:52.06brlcadfolks interested in being a mentor should log in at http://socghop.appspot.com and request it
14:52.10``Erikain't no hard feelings if ya'll don't go through fruity hoops and drive way out of your way
14:52.38``ErikI'm listed as admin on that, does that mean I'm not a regular mentor?
14:52.47brlcad``Erik, d-lo, starseeker, yukonbob come to mind for starters
14:53.09brlcad``Erik: being an admin is separate from being a mentor
14:53.28``ErikI can take a student if needed, or I can just sit back and help questions... I think I'll pass on the summit, though, ok?
14:53.36brlcadsure
14:53.47brlcadnice to send new folks each year anyways
14:53.56``Erikthat's what I was thinking
14:54.13``Erik<-- felt awful out of place last year :/
14:54.28brlcadplus you'd get to avoid chicago and large bottles of vodka :)
14:54.40``Erikwell, chicago, mebbe
14:54.47``Erikthough it's not that bad of a spot
14:55.03brlcadyou weren't exactly happy-go-lucky in the airport
14:55.04``ErikI just spent time in layover in minneapolis and charlotsville
14:55.19``ErikI hate flying. I hate what 9/11 has turned flying into.
14:55.34brlcadsuspects you haded flying before security changes
14:55.39brlcadhated even too
14:55.41``Erikno, I used to love it
14:55.46``Erikespecially small planes
14:55.59brlcadwell, outside of missouri, large international airports
14:56.03``ErikI want to get my private v license, mebbe a sports license
14:56.04brlcadlots of peeps on the move
14:56.49``ErikI dislike crowds, and I dislike the strip search "everyone's a criminal until proven otherwise" approach to airport security
14:57.35``Erikbut I love the feeling of a small twin turboprop wiggling up into the air
14:59.19``Erik(didn't help that I was desperate for a piss when ya got pulled over)
15:00.22d-loI am not a big fan of small aircraft's ability to rapidly drop in altitude and make your complimentry Coke hover 8" off your tray table.
15:00.34d-loIt tests my faith in engineering a bit.
15:00.51CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03137.71.226.54 07http://brlcad.org * r1289 10/wiki/Documentation: test
15:01.07``Erikhaven't had that episode yet, but, zomfg, I want to!
15:01.46``Erikand damn well engineered aircraft can sustain -8 g's... so, uh, the engineering is there, dude
15:01.51``Erikthe pilot may not be, but ...
15:01.59CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03137.71.226.54 07http://brlcad.org * r1290 10/wiki/Documentation: Undo revision 1289 by [[Special:Contributions/137.71.226.54|137.71.226.54]] ([[User talk:137.71.226.54|Talk]])
15:01.59d-losmall twin turbo out or Albany, NY to Cinncinati.  Hit some weather blowing off the great lakes.... unfun.
15:02.54``ErikI'd like to get a vfr commutor and sport license as some point in my life
15:03.12``Erikwith a seaplane label, if I can
15:03.15d-lojust because the Engineers planned something on paper/computer bears nothing on how its put together on the assembly line nor on the underpaid,slackass maintainers/mechanics :)
15:03.23``Erikwell
15:03.34``Erikthe weather and the pilot had issues... it was bad
15:03.44``Erikdid the wings come off of the plane? no? then the engineers were good
15:04.09d-loHeh, you would make a horrible Nuke :P
15:04.22``Erikif your drinks are at 0g in a sustained bit due to such a conflict, I'd imagine the engineers did good
15:04.23``Erik:)
15:05.09``Erikyeah, ya nukes are all pansies
15:05.25d-loMushrooms, we are all *Mushrooms*
15:05.29d-lothere is a difference.
15:05.36``Erik"omg, I dropped this 20 pound wrench on my toe when I was barefoot, even though the sign says wear stealtoes... qq, )
15:05.47d-lolol
15:06.09d-lothats 'Darwinism in Action' right there.
15:07.07``ErikI wouldn't wanna be a nuke, I know I fuck up, I fuck up a lot... in code, I catch MOST of those... but before people die, someone else gets a fair shot at what I did
15:07.16``Erikand, y'know, if I fuck up, tell me ! I love it, it makes me better.
15:08.33d-loNah, I only said that because of your Engineering Atttitude :)  I will refine that statement and say that you would make a great Nuke Electrician, but not a good Nuke Electronics Tech or Mechanic :)  
15:08.46d-loWire-biters get away with a lot :)
15:08.53``ErikI'd never want to be a dike wrangler.
15:09.26d-lolol, thats a new one.
15:09.39``ErikI don't like people getting dead, I want as many folk between me and them as possible
15:12.05``Erikso help me out here, you stated 3 or so MOS's, which is which?
15:14.05d-loNot MOS's, ratings:)  
15:14.42d-loNukes are MM's, EM's, and ET's:  Machinist Mate, Electrician Mate, and Electronics Technicians.
15:14.59``Erikrating like E-X ?
15:15.19d-lo-or- Knuckle Draggers, Wire-biters, and Twigets.
15:15.38d-loi dont understand 'e-x'...
15:15.56``Erikoh, e3 e5 e8...
15:16.01``Erikall bow down, it's an e9
15:16.07``Erikbwahahhaha, basic, an e1
15:16.15d-lothats rank, not to be confused with rate
15:16.56d-lorate = job, rank = position in food chain.
15:17.14``Erikahh
15:17.43``Erikso help me out here, what's the laymans vew of mm em et
15:18.06``Erikand, uh, ne
15:18.52d-loEM = Electricians.  Handle mainline power, generators, converters, blah blah, blah... basiclally any electronics/electrical not directly reactor related.
15:19.09d-loET = Electronics Techs.  Handle the solid state Reactor Protection junk.
15:19.22d-loET = low voltage wimps.
15:19.46d-loMM = Mechanics.  Pipes, steam, oil systems, cooling systems, etc.
15:20.24d-loand then the sub group of MM's called ELTs (Engineeing Lab Techs) who do all the water and radio chemistry.
15:20.55_sushi_d-lo: are you sure youre not divulging any army secrets?
15:20.59d-loThrow in an o-ganger to keep us dirty enlisted from taking over the engineroom and voila, you have EngDiv of a sub.
15:21.05``Erikin your parlance, I woulda probably gone towards et before I decided to say "fuck all ya'll" to the military :)
15:21.18``Erikstill not sure what "nuke electrician" qualifies as :)
15:21.33d-lo_sushi_: Army?  nope.  This is all Navy :) and its not secret in any way.  Just ask Google.
15:21.39d-loEM
15:21.39``Erikkarel: 'sall navy, and I'm sure it's all in wikipedia
15:22.18d-loEM = Electrician's Mate (rate)
15:23.08``Erikshittiest $1017 pizza ever.
15:23.21d-loranks:  (from E1 to E9): SR EMFA, EMFN, EM3, EM2, EM1, EMC, EMCS, EMCM
15:23.51d-lo:/ I can imagine.
15:25.07``ErikI have to go get rich so I can make someone else drive me
15:25.07``Erikdid enough jrotc to come in as e3, but is too old now
15:25.14``Erikalso; I d'no if I want my title to be "semen"
15:25.36d-loElectricians are Firemen :)
15:25.43d-lohoooya!
15:25.57``Erikdoes that mean ya'll start fires? ;)
15:26.15d-loAquitted.  No Proof.
15:26.41``ErikSO
15:26.45``ErikI had a brainfart the other day
15:26.45d-loButyes, I have been party to a 27,000V fire :/
15:26.58``Erikon transportation between solar systems
15:27.10``Erikgot time to talk shit?
15:27.13d-loTransformer varnish stinks when it melts :(
15:27.18d-losure.
15:27.18``Erikoh hell yeah
15:27.37``Erikfucking transformers are the stinkiest components around until you overload a dielectric capacitor
15:28.12d-loI have only seen one of them big oil filled caps blow.  that was just messy, not stinky.
15:28.19``Erikhere's my thought, every ss is connect to another by a brane, some solar systems have multible branes, each starting ss has a single brain
15:28.27d-loso, brainfart = good or bad?
15:28.59d-lohold on. this brainstorming for a new game concept?
15:29.14``Erikbranes are randmonly linked between planets, so even if you have the physical location of a planet, you may not have the shortest path to it
15:29.19``Erikae knockoff
15:29.25d-lokk, onboard now.
15:29.52d-lookay, a game I am stealing conepts from calls branes 'Starlanes'
15:29.57d-loso I gotcha
15:30.03``Erikit's an old string theory idea
15:30.37``Erikbut the notion is that solar systems are connected by subspace rifts that can be ridden
15:30.56``Erikphysical locality is seperate from "hyperspace" locality
15:31.40``Erikplayers start in fairly isolated areas and access the big mess later in their career
15:32.06d-lobig mess = the rest of the super vast universe?
15:32.20``Erikand there's no easy way to know how long ti takes to get to a target given just its coordinates
15:32.23``Erikyeah
15:32.56d-locheck this link:
15:32.59d-lohttp://www2.worldvillage.com/wv/gamezone/images/screens/asc1.jpg
15:33.21``Erikok, what'm I looking at?
15:33.30d-logame is called acendancy.  the dots on the screen are solar systems and the lines represent the only travelable paths between systems.
15:33.58d-loits also a 2D screenshot of a 3D universe, so its slightly flattened.
15:33.58``Eriksounds about right
15:34.10``Erikit's not a new concept, just one I haven't seen much
15:34.22d-loPersonnally, I love the idea.
15:34.33``ErikI'm trying to put the playability into aspect here :)
15:34.39d-loputs some 'geographical' stragedy back into the game.
15:34.59d-lo'Take this system and we can lock down this whole sector..."
15:35.02``Erikalso reduces guild-centric stuff a bit
15:35.24``Erikthis wussy is no longer "just right there", but down this twisted narrow unmapped path
15:35.57d-loAscendancy is Abandonware, you sould grab a DL and check some of the ascpects of game play.  they have some wicked ideas.
15:36.00*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
15:36.19hippieindamakin8hey madant_
15:36.23``Erikah, abandonia for the win
15:36.55madant_hey hippieindamakin8 , just about steeping out.. how's the proposal coming along
15:36.58``ErikI'll have to grab a dos emulator
15:36.58d-loright on.
15:37.22hippieindamakin8madant_, working on it :|
15:37.22d-loDosBox makes it super easy.  Ascendancy runs 'out of the box' i think.
15:39.23hippieindamakin8madant_, got 3 term papers this week :| one on "geometric approximation via coresets","curve fitting of unorganized data points" and "NOx emmisions"
15:39.30hippieindamakin8*due this week
16:52.54starseekerbrlcad:  thinking about a "material object" as distinct from a "geometry object" in the database - would it be desirable to store all material objects by default in a hidden _materials toplevel combination or some such?
16:52.55starseekeror maybe just not list them by default with ls?
16:55.53starseekeralso, would we want to define a default structure for such objects that stores certain "standard" info, or just use an attribute system to attach attributes to the material object?
16:57.01starseeker's inclination would be to at least have density and shader settings as default information
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17:50.40CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34062 10/brlcad/trunk/db/goliath.asc: Add source attribute to goliath model.
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18:15.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34063 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:15.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: Switch brlman from a wrapper invoking awf to a wrapper invoking the system man
18:15.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: command. awf is not able to correctly handle output generated by the new
18:15.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: docbook man page generation process. The brlman shortcut is preserved for those
18:15.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: not wishing to manually specify the path to the BRL-CAD man pages. awf
18:15.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: originally was intended to supply man page reading functionality on systems
18:15.38CIA-40BRL-CAD: without their own man command, but nowadays the only major environment without a
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19:09.05brlcadstarseeker: .g files already have object categorization for geometric and non-geometric
19:11.05brlcadmajor type 3 is particularly relevant and would probably be what to use
19:13.35brlcadgot a build failure after 34063
19:23.36starseekerhmm
19:23.38starseekerrebuilds
19:24.02starseekerah
19:24.04starseekersorry
19:27.19starseekerprods CIA
19:29.13starseekerbrlcad:  should be fixed now
19:33.22starseekerbrlcad: you're referring to DB5_MAJORTYPE_ATTRIBUTE_ONLY in db5.h?
19:36.13brlcadwell yeah, that's the low-level implementation detail
19:36.40brlcadyou can read about it a little bit on the v5 spec document, http://brlcad.org/OLD/newdb/newdb.html
19:41.38brlcadrationale and organizational layout from there is good
19:43.41starseekercan minor types be assigned to this type of major type as well?
19:44.42brlcadall objects have a major+minor
19:52.32brlcadright now, all DB5_MAJORTYPE_ATTRIBUTE_ONLY objects are minor type 0
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20:07.14starseekersuggests creating a minor type for material objects
20:26.20brlcadprobably a good idea
20:27.12brlcadbut that'd also imply a different structure to the underlying private data
20:27.26brlcadwhich may or may not be the case, depends on the implementation
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21:45.24brlcadcheers for progress
22:30.05*** join/#brlcad ``Erik___ (i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
22:42.24starseekersees two types of data that it would make immediate sense to associate with a material object. One is (obviously) the density, and the other is shader properties
22:43.00starseekershader properties might be either directly stored in the material object, or might be created as a "shader object" which is then pointed to by the material object
22:43.58starseekerI'm not sure of the relative merits, offhand
22:45.55starseekerthere would be a (very slight) space savings for cases where no shader settings are defined or two materials share the same shader settings if shader objects were used, but unless there is some other use for shader objects the extra abstraction might just clutter up the database with 2x the needed object names
22:46.27starseekerin the case where all materials DO have their own shaders
22:47.10brlcadshaders would actually be another potential object type
22:47.20starseekerright
22:47.26brlcadwhere a given material references some shader object(s)
22:47.39starseekeris it worth the extra abstraction?
22:47.47brlcadthe point, though, with regards to the minor type is how it is actually stored
22:47.50brlcadthe bits in the record
22:48.22starseekerhmm.
22:48.26brlcadsince you could conceivably implement the whole thing as-is and handle it just as transparently at the api level
22:48.32brlcador app level even
22:48.46brlcadas that is domain-specific (which is exactly what the attributes were designed to support)
22:49.32starseekernods - I had been assuming what makes the material object interesting is the density being an "attribute on an attribute", so to speak
22:50.42starseekerwe could of course stuff the info into material_name and material_density attributes on regions
22:51.42brlcadright
22:51.54brlcadthen it's just an issue of data replication and verification
22:52.17brlcadi'm leaning towards just doing exactly like what we do with combinations
22:52.22brlcadeverything is a named reference
22:53.34starseekerI'm not following - what are you referencing for material info?
22:53.41brlcadso there would still be a material id attribute of sorts, but instead of being GIFTmater=4, it would become something like material="steel", and there would be an attribute/material object named 'steel' with the information for that material
22:53.55starseekerah
22:54.20starseekerlikes the idea of there being one material object named "steel" per db
22:54.31brlcadthe combination reference is if I have a combination that is u sph1 u sph2, those are named references that imply there are (or should be) objects named sph1 and sph2
22:54.41starseekerright
22:54.58starseekerso a material attribute implies there should be a steel material object
22:55.07brlcadif they're just treated as objects, then databases can be merged together and the same logic we use now for name collisions applies
22:55.15starseekernods
22:55.18brlcadright
22:55.22starseekerI like it
22:55.49starseekerthat also avoids two regions claiming to be steel but with differrent material_density attributes, since they're both referencing the same steel material object
22:55.56brlcadthen if down the road we wanted to assign textures or shaders, that would maybe be a similarly assigned attribute
22:56.02brlcad(on the material object)
22:56.12starseekernice
22:56.27starseekerstarting to "feel" like a BRL-CAD-esque solution
22:57.09brlcadI believe in the original material design we worked on a few years back, there was even a way to base one material off of an existing material, giving hierarchical properties
22:57.22brlcadsomething to think about again if it gets a proper object
22:57.47starseeker's current thought on shaders is to expand the densities parsing to (optionally) handle shader settings - when a material object is created from a densities file, it could optionally generate the shader object if supplied (and not already found in the database)
22:58.24starseekerbrlcad:  hmm.  what material properties would you want to inherit?  a density defined as a function of another density?
22:59.21brlcadon an only somewhat related side note, I think shader objects are a fantastic direction to go in
22:59.32brlcadinstead of the shader string presently used
22:59.50starseekerwhole-heartedly agrees
22:59.51brlcada lot more complicated though
23:02.42brlcadstarseeker: basically it's like classes or scopes -- answering your inheritance question -- there are a set of parameters for a given material like it's density, modulus, strength, shearing factors, shader properties, etc
23:03.22starseekerwhat are you seeing as the major complications with shader objects?
23:03.30starseekerah, got it
23:03.32brlcadthere are very often materials used that are just slight tweaks of other materials -- a variant of "steel" that is "hardened steel #83" that has all the same properties as the prevoius 82 but this one has a slightly different density
23:04.46brlcadmaterial properties are fairly fixed (e.g., minimally just need a name and a density) -- there are a set of attributes that can be itemized
23:05.12brlcadshaders, though, are a little more dynamic, are wildly different from shader to shader
23:06.19brlcadjust would have to be careful to implement a shader object so that the serialized guts aren't going to limit "upgrades"
23:07.07brlcadI can add a new parameter to the pervasive phong shader now and it won't hose anything or require the latest version to work, if it was tied to a db object and binary parsing, that becomes something we'd have to pay attention to
23:12.05starseekerhmm
23:12.41*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-59.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
23:42.52``Erikwonders how embedded parms would interact with other rendering methods (edge, photon mapping, radar analysis, etc)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090324

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090324

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03:03.51*** join/#brlcad madant__ (n=madant@117.196.134.79)
03:16.22starseekerbrlcad:  when did version 5 of the db format become the default?
03:29.16*** join/#brlcad Briggs (n=chatzill@70.238.171.170)
03:29.45Briggsquick question for anyone who knows: Would BRL-CADS NMG booleans be suitable to just doing boolean operations on complex 2d polygon data?
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04:07.08dreevesffghk/
04:21.40RalithBriggs: doubtful; BRL-CAD is all about volumes, and 2D stuff has no volume, and thus might as well not exist.
04:22.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34065 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (BRL-CAD_db_format.xml Makefile.am): Start working on converting http://brlcad.org/OLD/newdb/newdb.html to docbook.
04:22.50BriggsRalith: thought that might be the case.
04:23.29RalithBriggs: you could, of course, extrude the polygons.
04:23.42Briggsthen I just end up having to delete data.
04:23.43Briggsbut might work.
04:24.39Briggsactually I could have two polygons, back to back and that would satisfy the euler-poincare forumla while still being completely flat :)
04:24.47BriggsI doubt that BRL-CAD would like that though
04:26.15RalithI'd be surprised if there weren't tools more appropriate for handling boolean ops on 2D datasets anyway
04:26.40BriggsRalith: there are... but I'm looking for something that has liberal licensing for the time being
04:26.59Ralithwhat exactly are you trying to do?
04:27.19Briggsits part of a much bigger application/framework for generating models procedurally from GIS data.
04:28.13Briggs2d booleans just small part of that. Most electronic map data comes in polygons that need to be joined togather when they cross cell boundaries.
04:29.19Briggs3d booleans are also a part of that later as well, but I know that wont be a problem for NMG :)
04:43.08brlcadstarseeker: with release 6 iirc
04:44.43brlcadBriggs: hm, interesting -- in theory, it'll work if you only use the lower-level functions (e.g. clip this polygon against this one, etc), but like ralith said, it is doubtful in general
04:45.09brlcadand no, you can't have two polys back to back -- it'll detect that as a degenerate condition
04:45.16Briggsbrlcad: yeah. Most 2d clippers seem to be heavily optimized using sweepline algorithms that are a lot faster than having to consider general 3d case.
04:45.30Briggsbrlcad: really? even if it satisfies manifold condition?
04:45.41Briggsor do you mean the booleans will consider it degenerate, not NMG nessecarilly.
04:46.00brlcadright
04:46.04Briggsgotcha :)
05:01.40brlcadnow if you made the 2D data more than our default distance tolerance, I'd entirely expect it to work
05:02.07Briggswhat do you mean?
05:02.19brlcadI mean, extruded to 3D
05:02.24Briggsahhh yeah
05:02.44Briggsmight be a quick hack/workaround while I evaluate other packages/libs that specialize in this sort of thing.
05:03.19brlcadif it didn't work, I'd consider that a bug -- would be an interesting way to build up test cases too. hmm.
05:03.46Briggswell this would definitely be considered 'abuse' I think
05:03.49brlcadlet me know if you try it, sounds pretty cool
05:04.00Briggssince this would be landlines that are comprised of like 30 thousand points each
05:04.52Briggsbut also advantage is *if* it does work I can just modify the NMG structures to support custom data + interpolation
05:05.07Briggswhich I will need to tage these entities with all kinds of extra info I want to preserve.
05:05.20brlcadperformance won't really matter much with the number of points -- it'll matter with the number of booleans and the NxM comparisons it has to make
05:05.36Briggsrealllly.....
05:05.38Briggshrmmm
05:06.38brlcadI mean in general, there are some bad cases .. just depends what you're doing and the order of ops
05:06.53Briggsright now I'm only concerned with simple unions.
05:07.04Briggs'simple' is bad word to use...
05:07.53brlcadstill, there's several ways you can do simple unions -- consider unioning 100 objects together
05:08.20Briggsright
05:08.22Briggswont be that many.
05:08.26brlcadyou can union B into A, then C into A+B, then D into A+B+C, then E into A+B+C+D .. and so on, or
05:08.55brlcadyou could union A+B and C+D and E+F, then union A+B with C+D and E+F with ... etc
05:09.15Briggsright
05:09.54brlcadwith our current implementation, the latter is something like O(n^2) performance where the first one is something like O(n^3) performance .. i.e. first is much much worse
05:10.42brlcadmm, latter is probably more like O(n*log(n)) instead of O(n^2)
05:13.46starseekermutters under his breath about the rockbox video player, or ffmpeg, or both...
05:23.57Ralithrockbox is great for audio
05:24.03Ralithnever used it on a video-capable device, though.
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10:38.18d-loMorning all
11:01.57hippieindamakin8brlcad the best overlay calculations used in GIS use  O(nlogn) agorithms
11:02.39hippieindamakin8which ofcourse rely on the line sweep algos
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14:09.04CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34066 10/rt^3/trunk/ (11 files in 2 dirs): accurate exceptions for the Objects
14:41.35CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34067 10/rt^3/trunk/ (include/brlcad/Database.h src/coreInterface/Database.cpp): Delete() to remove an object from the database
15:11.22brlcadstarseeker: hm, no schema
15:12.06brlcadlet me see if I can revive the site somewhere
15:14.40starseekeryeah, I can't connect to the materials database in mysql from the command line, at least not with whatever my default username setup in mysql is
15:14.58starseekercommon.inc seems to have some comments
15:24.35brlcadstarseeker: site revived at http://mater.brlcad.org/
15:24.45brlcadhave to look through the sources to get user/pass
15:25.23brlcadthat's the credentials you'd have to use regardless to get at the db
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16:28.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34068 10/brlcad/trunk/ (10 files in 6 dirs): Added rt_bot_flip, rot_bot_sync, ged_bot_flip and ged_bot_sync functions. Also added bot_flip and bot_sync commands to MGED.
17:28.18CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34069 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/BRL-CAD_db_format.xml: Add on-disk format table to BRL-CAD db v5 spec.
18:04.02CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34070 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/BRL-CAD_db_format.xml: Add H/A/Bflags table to BRL-CAD db v5 spec.
18:07.10brlcadstarseeker: cool, so you're just working your way through the doc?
18:07.28brlcadwould have taken a second to dig up the most up-to-date version of it had I known that ;)
18:07.30starseekerbrlcad:  Yeah, I figure it's the best way to familiarize myself with the db format
18:07.35starseekeroh :-)
18:07.40starseekerthat'd be nice
18:07.45starseekerdrool...
18:07.57brlcadit's close enough, that's why that one's up there
18:08.35brlcadjust a couple days or work missing, nothing that can't be fixed up in another pass cleanup
18:08.41brlcadwhen you're done, I can go through it again
18:08.50starseekercool
18:08.58brlcadknow a good way to tag a section in docbook?
18:09.15starseekerum - you can give it an id for xinclude
18:09.18brlcad(with something other than sect)
18:09.35brlcadI'm thinking like say I wanted to mark up that document with extra information
18:09.39brlcadso there's the spec as it is now
18:10.00starseekeroh, and then comments or some such?
18:10.07brlcadthen some means to denote all deprecated features when it's rendered
18:10.15brlcadand yet another to denote features to be changed
18:10.22brlcadand yet another to denote features to be removed/added, etc
18:10.27starseekerpulls up his docbook tag list...
18:10.55brlcadSo like it will add things like a few paragraphs throughout, a few extra lines/columns to tables, etc
18:11.26brlcadi suspect it's too much for docbook to easily handle without messy markup
18:11.35starseekeryeah, I'm afraid so
18:12.01starseekeryou can make custom tags and the corresponding xsl, but then of course it's not structly docbook
18:13.24starseekerthis might have some hints:  http://docs.oasis-open.org/templates/DocBook/spec-0.4/template/
18:15.17d-loHeya ``Erik , how ya feelin?
18:15.30``Erika bit better, still coughing an awful lot
18:15.41``Erikbut my sinuses are starting to clear up
18:15.48``ErikI'll be in tomorrie
18:16.03d-loThe weather change is whoopin my ass too :/
18:19.44starseekerbrlcad:  I've not included some of the intro stuff (goals, features for possible inclusion, etc.) yet since it seems to kind of distract from the main point - I figured it might make more sense as a "suggested features" Appendix or some such.
18:20.12starseekereasy enough to toss back in if it really needs to be where it is now
18:20.53``Erikthe wench back in missoura had it when I went, but she thought it was allergies, *shrug* so I got to fly back with clogged sinuses, runny nose, etc... not fun
18:39.27brlcadstarseeker: there is also a discussion appendix already
18:39.55brlcadthe rest is more rationale and discussions, was annotated comments in the original
18:40.22brlcadsort of like section footnotes
18:40.59brlcadprobably better as footnotes to the sections they talk about than as an appendix
18:54.03CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34071 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
18:54.03CIA-40BRL-CAD: back by popular demand, you can now run the 'inside' command on edit state
18:54.03CIA-40BRL-CAD: objects again. bob restored this feature after the backwards-compatibility and
18:54.03CIA-40BRL-CAD: efficiency concerns were raised by victor cericole at an arl configuration
18:54.03CIA-40BRL-CAD: change meeting. the feature raises a whole category of concerns on how to best
18:54.06CIA-40BRL-CAD: handle edit state objects with libged (and as yet unresolved).
19:02.44CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34072 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/BRL-CAD_db_format.xml: Add Flags descriptions to spec.
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19:16.47elite01this is cool
19:17.05elite01thanks to people like him, i can now use tab completion on common words
19:17.14elite01so i bought this new Computer *bam, tab*
19:17.21elite01Computer, you're awesome
19:26.15brlcadheh
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21:03.46brlcadwb pacman87 :)
21:03.53pacman87ty :D
21:04.03brlcadpacman87: how's the semester going?
21:04.12pacman87pretty good
21:04.14pacman87busy
21:04.22brlcadfun?
21:04.32pacman87yeah
21:04.43pacman87except for gov
21:06.58brlcadpacman87: you applying to gsoc this year?
21:07.05pacman87yeah
21:07.22brlcadawesome
21:07.27pacman87finish up revolve, and get as much of sweep done as i can
21:08.18brlcadthat sounds fantastic :)
21:08.21pacman87i might apply to bzflag too for anti-cheat mods
21:08.26pacman87since i've already done some of that
21:08.31brlcadoof, make my life hard, eh? :)
21:08.34pacman87yeah
21:08.45brlcadj/k, apply to whatever makes you happy -- you'll get a fair shake either way
21:09.12brlcadI fear bz's is going to be really tough given we're only taking 2-3 slots
21:09.50pacman87what was the % change in total student slots from last year?
21:10.04brlcadabout 1250 to 1000
21:10.27brlcadmaybe closer to 1200, about 20% range
21:10.55brlcadwe're still intentionally taking much less for bz, though so we aren't burnt out and can press for a release
21:11.02pacman87what about the number of sponsored projects?
21:11.11brlcadyou mean orgs?
21:11.17pacman87yeah, forgot the proper term
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21:16.19csanyipalhowdy
21:16.42pacman87hi csanyipal
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21:51.34brlcadorgs went from 130 to 175 then down to 150
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22:46.00starseekerpacman87: go for sweep! go for sweep! ;-)
22:48.16brlcadsweep the leg?
23:29.24pacman87starseeker: ;)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090325

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090325

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02:53.36yukonbobhello, cadheads
03:34.16pacman87howdy, yukonbob
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03:55.18starseekeris surprised by how much info the gsoc mentor form requires
03:58.26yukonbobhey pacman87
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04:33.44starseekerah, there's pixie's rib parser:  http://pixie.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pixie/trunk/src/rndr/rndr.cpp?revision=1193&view=markup
04:37.51brlcadnotes that task is listed: http://brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html
04:39.05brlcadanother integration idea was to test out pixie itself as a "shader" or as an rt lighting model
04:41.55pacman87brlcad: is the "cylindrical wedge" on that list (under primitives) just a cylinder with base/top at an arbitrary angle?
04:43.57brlcadpacman87: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/CylindricalWedge.html
04:44.15brlcadpretty simple primitive
04:44.32pacman87looks like it
04:45.25brlcadbasically a tgc/rcc but sliced through the side and one base at an arbitrary orientation
04:47.35brlcadinput params are somewhat different
04:47.55pacman87yeah, that's what i was thinking about
04:48.12pacman87same thing with the hyp
04:48.27pacman87a few different ways to specify dimensions
04:48.41brlcadnot sure if it could be easily generalized to a generalized conical wedge instead of right circular
04:49.26pacman87radius, height vector, and two normal vectors for the surfaces?
04:50.38brlcadcylindrical wedge starts getting down into the weeds of being an interesting starter primitive for someone to learn with
04:51.07brlcadsomewhat limited uses though
04:51.23pacman87yeah, but it being on the TODO list struck me as a "why hasn't it happened yet?"
04:52.32brlcadnah, I'm thinking actually something like tgc where top ij vectors are maybe 2:1 and bottom vectors are 1:2 (looks sorta twisted), then slice through side and base
04:52.58brlcadthat's the ideas page, not quite the same as the TODO file
04:53.17brlcadthough both contain items that are just "would be nice to have" regardless of priority
04:53.25pacman87it'd be nice if each primitive had all of its dimensions editable, and the user selects which set are driving, and leaving the rest driven
04:54.25brlcadnot necessarily things that we are actively pursuing
04:54.25pacman87ah, i should read the url and/or the page title
04:54.27brlcadheh, or the big paragraph at the beginning ;)
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04:55.02yukonbobthat cylindrical wedge is perdy
04:55.03pacman87one of my big questions with the sweep is how to manage the 'orientation along the path'
05:04.48brlcadyou could limit the orientation to make it piecewise -- make the sweep only have a starting orientation/azimuth and an ending azimuth
05:05.03brlcadthen linearly interpolate
05:05.48brlcador would take the spline input curve and allow the specification of N orientations along that path ranged from 0.0 to 1.0 distance along the sweep curve (and then linearly interpolate)
05:10.45brlcadautocad allows the sketch to be perpendicular or at an angle, along a spline path, with twisting angles (azimuths), and scaling factors
05:11.08brlcadtwists and scales are both linearly interp'd, though twists can be more than 360
05:11.44brlcadhttp://www.dailyautocad.com/autocad/3d-modeling-8-using-sweep-command/
05:12.11pacman87most of my experience is from solidworks
05:13.45brlcadsimilar flexibility
05:13.49brlcadhttp://www.solidsmack.com/how-the-heck-is-this-made-creating-solidworks-spirals-sweeps-and-helixes/2008-10-01/
05:16.17brlcadnot sure how they did the hourglass other than by tying multiples together or if solidworks has keypoints
05:18.43brlcadaha, guide curves
05:18.48brlcadhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OUCd8Fp0cE
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08:41.01madant_to anybody interested :) theoretical foundations of geometric constraint solving.. the references are the good part ;) http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/cmh/electrobook/theory.html
08:49.17CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Homovulgaris 07http://brlcad.org * r1291 10/wiki/Libpc: Basic Structure
08:49.39CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Homovulgaris 07http://brlcad.org * r1292 10/wiki/Developer_Documents: /* Development Projects */
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12:36.00mafmbrlcad: any candidate for the GUI framework?
12:37.02d-loWhy are *YOU* so interested, eh? =D
12:37.16mafmbecause I might have to do some mentoring
12:37.56mafmor hide behind the armchair in the case that s/he embarrases me with his/her skills :)
12:43.03mafmd-lo: are you going to be a mentor this year? does it depend on the projects elected, I guess
12:43.27d-lomafm:  could be one!
12:47.26mafmd-lo: I don't if I should say congrats, or I feel for you :)
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14:06.13``Erik_"csg ray trace optimisations" sounds insanely vague O.o
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14:53.23starseekersees the article on the Texas school board and winces
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16:07.32CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34073 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/CMakeLists.txt: included g5-g4 downgrade tool
16:11.35CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34074 10/rt^3/trunk/ (include/brlcad/Object.h src/coreInterface/Object.cpp): the return value of Copy() is always ignored
16:13.43CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34075 10/rt^3/trunk/ (8 files in 2 dirs): revised error handling
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17:25.05CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Adminssmith 07http://brlcad.org * r1293 10/wiki/Main_Page:
17:46.39starseekerbrlcad:  hmm, the db5.h header has a DB5_MINORTYPE_BRLCAD_COMBINATION entry, but the spec lists combinations as a non-geometry type
18:06.39d-lowww.nbos.com
18:17.31``Eriknifty, I'm back online
18:17.36``Erikyay, comcast!
18:17.45d-loThey finally fix your connection?
18:17.50``Erikno
18:17.53``Erikyay, they suck. :D
18:22.13CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:Adminssmith]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
18:22.42CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1294 10/wiki/Main_Page: Undo revision 1293 by [[Special:Contributions/Adminssmith|Adminssmith]] ([[User talk:Adminssmith|Talk]])
18:23.23``Erikhuh, nutty, one of their distributors is in bellevue, wa
18:23.36``Erikdrove there to buy cd's and blue hair dye back in the day
18:26.34d-loblue?  heh.  heheh.. ....ROFL
18:26.51``ErikO.o what? :D
18:27.01``Erikit was the mid 90's in the seattle area
18:27.06``ErikI was COOL, yo! (or somethin')
18:27.38hippieindamakin8``Erik, mid 90s and Seattle woah wat a place to be :)
18:28.17hippieindamakin8but i would prefer going back to the times of woodstock and me a hippie ;)
18:28.29hippieindamakin868 i meant
18:34.23starseekermutter mutter... grip and joint have geometry minor types too, despite having minor types in major type 1
18:36.09starseekernot clean
18:43.50starseekerwishes these geometry minor types could have been assigned in an order based on mathematical grouping... oh, well
18:46.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34076 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/BRL-CAD_db_format.xml: Add in content up to geometry minor types table.
18:55.08CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34077 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/BRL-CAD_db_format.xml: Add geometry attributes minor type section.
18:55.36starseekerwhoops, that was a major type session
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21:45.18CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34078 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/BRL-CAD_db_format.xml: Add spec contents up to Object Length.
21:51.02starseeker<snort> I like the part were it says "detailed specifications of each of these are necessary..."
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22:07.13CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Paulcs 07http://brlcad.org * r1295 10/wiki/Animation: /* Compositing an animation */
22:11.54CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Paulcs 07http://brlcad.org * r1296 10/wiki/Animation: /* With Mencoder */
22:12.20*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@252-144-85-95.dynamic.stcable.net)
22:12.28csanyipalhowdy!
22:13.47csanyipalI want just to say that that I wrote down a small addon to http://brlcad.org/wiki/Animation.
22:14.16csanyipalOne can use Mencoder to create an animation from png files.
22:14.33*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
22:53.23Ralithwonders if there are any version control systems that don't suffer horrible lag when dealing with codebases this large
22:55.21Ralithhuh, this is weird
22:55.45Ralith'svn diff' is showing lots of changes that I didn't make; it's like instead of applying some revisions it just skipped them and assumed I'd deleted them.
22:56.43Ralithis tempted to revert his changes, but that'd mean starting over from scratch.
22:56.50Raliththat's what I get for going idle for a long period, I guess
23:07.45Ralithlooks like something to do with lineendings.
23:09.03Ralithsomeone wiped out all the ^Ms and for some reason svn thinks I put them back?
23:17.15Ralithbegins making extensive use of revert --recursive
23:20.32Ralithlooks like it's mostly in .dsp files.
23:21.39Ralithokay, that halved the diff size.
23:23.56Ralith.dsp files are huge.
23:26.27Ralithhey, I wonder how hard it would be to write a tool to evaluate a single line of cpp syntax in context.
23:27.39``Erik"cpp syntax in context"?
23:27.39Ralithokay, I'm back down to my actual changes! yay! :D
23:28.08Ralith``Erik: as in, considering other cpp expressions in the file, such as includes and defines, as would be necessary for useful behavior in most cases.
23:28.21Ralithbasically, run cpp on the file and extract the corresponding line.
23:28.47Ralithdoes cpp offer any way to determine the corresponding line, or would that have to be hacked on?
23:28.52``Erikah, I usually just do gcc -E | less and search for something close
23:29.03Ralithyeah, but wouldn't it be awesome to have it bound in emacs?
23:29.30Ralithperhaps a minibuffer message showing the expansion, and a keybind to perform the replacement.
23:30.12``ErikI'm sure a little elithp could handle that fairly easily, provided you can pull the actual command to compile the object
23:30.54Ralithwouldn't it just be a matter of running cpp on it?
23:31.04Ralithstill not sure how to extract the relevant line(s) though.
23:31.16``Erikpost-cpp code has #1234 springled through it to help the compiler get line numbers correct, be a matter of finding the greatest line indicator before your line of interest, then counting (mebbe doing 5 or so lines to help with context)
23:31.29Ralithoo
23:31.31Raliththat's helpful
23:31.44``Erikgcc -E myprog.c > myprog.cpp ; grep '^#[0-9]' myprog.cpp
23:31.57Ralithis gcc -E perferable to cpp?
23:31.58``Erik(or .e if you don't want to confuse the more retarded c++ developers)
23:32.07Ralithlol
23:32.09``Erikum, they should execute the same code
23:32.17Ralithhm, I suppose one problem would be getting the include paths right
23:32.33``Erikyup, thus my comment about getting the actual command to compile the object :)
23:32.38Ralithahh, that's what you meant.
23:32.41``Erikthen you could s/-c -o blah.o/-E/
23:32.47Ralithyeah.
23:32.58Ralithperhaps have it parse Makefiles?
23:33.03Raliththat's getting kind of specialized though
23:33.39Ralith...weird, I appear to have finished these changes.
23:33.56``Erikiirc, emacs has the ability to execute make with some combination of 18 keys held down simultaniously
23:34.24``Erikfinding how it does that, and changing it to do "rm thisfile.o && make thisfile.o" to crib it
23:34.31Ralithonly three, actually.  I used to know it, but I've been using enough arcane toolchains lately that I've just been running a terminal instance in the same desktop and switching to that.
23:34.43``Erikor, if you use bsd make instead of gnu make, make -V might be able to do it
23:34.55Ralithwell, that's unportable
23:35.10``Erikyeah, but expecting to use gcc is unportable, as well
23:35.46``Erikwould imagine a couple big honkin' (cond) statements
23:35.48Ralithpoint.
23:35.56Ralithyeah that's just inelegant
23:36.11Ralithat least assuming gcc works across probably 95% of installations
23:36.31Ralithcertainly in our case.
23:36.35``Erikhrm
23:36.45``Erik'cept we test compile on like 5 different compilers, dude
23:36.53Ralithbut what do we all *use*?
23:36.58``Erikmipspro, sunw, ...
23:37.04``Erika couple msvc's
23:37.28``Erikmebbe we should use tendra :D
23:37.32Ralithbesides, we'd have to assume makefiles to get anywhere
23:37.47Ralithand that's probably less common than gcc in the world at large
23:37.54Ralithwell, who knows
23:38.06``Erikaaanyways, it's all shades of grey, where to draw the line is an engineering decision :)
23:38.10Ralithultimately I think gcc's a reasonable assumption for the purposes of a convenience tools.
23:38.13Ralithtool*
23:38.21``Erikprimarily developes on FBSD, which has been itching to dump gcc for quite a while
23:38.33``Eriksome argued tendra, now there's another one that's getting attention
23:38.34Ralithpcc does look shiny.,
23:38.41bjorkintoshin favor of what?
23:38.44Ralithsee above
23:38.49``Erikizzit pcc?
23:38.52Ralithpretty sure.
23:39.03Raliththat's the one that, iirc, OpenBSD has been giving lots of attention to
23:39.09``Eriksounds about right *shrug* I d'no, I got tired of all the bikeshedding around that topic
23:39.17Ralithand OpenBSD seems to have a habit of starting trends.
23:39.33Ralithpcc is interesting to me because last I heard of it it was much faster than gcc.
23:39.52Ralithnot that that's *too* valuable in the long run, but handy in a dev environment, and on source-based systems.
23:40.05``Erikfast compiling, or faster generated code?
23:40.08Raliththe former
23:40.22RalithI'd be surprised if they could match gcc's slew of optimization options.
23:41.04``Erikthe bsd's feed off of eachother a lot, they're all radically different than eachother (far more different than linux distros), but have a lot of community overlap and listen to eachother well, it's neat
23:41.22``Erikuhm, until recently, gcc was pretty shitty at optimizing, even microsoft was wiping the floor with gcc3
23:41.22Ralithyeah, BSD's awesome.
23:41.29Ralithright, until recently.
23:41.33Ralithnot so anymore.
23:41.36Ralith(or so I hear.)
23:41.42``Erikthe new, uh, TSA code in 4 made gcc40 far slower, but it sped up a lot pretty fast
23:42.01RalithI have to confess I've installed linux on my desktop, though
23:42.13``Erikused to have linux machines, now only has them at work :)
23:42.13Ralithsometimes you just gotta run some flash :P
23:42.22``Erik<-- pets his hackintops
23:42.43Ralithand I've also been toying with graphics stuff lately, and nvidia hasn't released a Cg compiler for FreeBSD yet.
23:43.16RalithI really wish the hardware industry was more open.
23:43.17``Erikthe first thing I did when I bought my old g3 ibook was watch strongbad email. all of it. :D
23:44.02``Eriknvidia drags its feet a LOT with the fbsd stuff, I had to email them to get a release to allow a 3 year old card to work :(
23:44.20RalithI'm just thankful they support it at all.
23:44.37``Erikthat was a fight and a half heh
23:44.47Ralithwell, less thankful, more amazed.
23:44.56``Erikthey didn't move until people were reverse engineering their hardware out in public
23:45.09Ralithit's even somewhat more stable than the nvidia/X I have set up on this linux box
23:45.21``ErikI imagine it was just to throw a carrot to prevent their "vital secrets" from being figured out by angsty fbsd fools
23:45.22``Erik:)
23:45.25Raliththough that may be more due to FreeBSD than nvidia.
23:45.29Ralithlol
23:45.33Raliththat reminds me
23:45.38Ralithhow's ATI doing with that whole releasing the docs thing?
23:45.40``Erikquickest way to make a fbsd unstable - nvidia driver. :D
23:45.45``Erik<-- hasn't been following
23:46.28Ralith'kay
23:46.35Ralithcuz that was really exciting when I first heard about it
23:46.41Ralithbut didn't really seem to go anywhere.
23:49.30``Erik"marylin manson???" "yeah, it's all his or her fault! I'm going to give him or her a piece of my mind or penis" hah
23:51.41Ralith``Erik: on a more topical subject: I'm a bit unsure what proper procedure is for me with respect to committing code (in this case, a removal of the redundant vecmath.h from lgt).  I've got write access, or did last I checked, but I'm uncertain if I should be requesting review (after testing to the best of my ability, of course) before checking changes in.
23:53.23Ralith(said removal is nontrivial as it required swapping out macros with different syntax, and I know of no clear way to verify that it all still works the same once compiled)
23:55.12``Erikthe benchmark suite? :)
23:55.20Ralithcovers lgt?
23:55.28``Erikcommits can always be undone, but if you want review, you can always post the patch somewhere
23:55.34``Erikoh, lgt, um
23:55.37``Erikd'no
23:56.04Ralithyeah, I'm just wondering if I should make a point of requesting review.
23:57.26``Erikdepends on how confident you are :) it'll get reviewed either way
23:58.13``Erikthe commit bit is the "we trust you enough to do what's right, or suffer the horrible reprecussions"
23:58.28Ralithkk, thanks for clearing that up
23:58.42``Erikw00t, clear as mud! :D
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090326

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090326

00:00.28Ralithmud can be an improvement.
00:06.20``Erik"AIG stands for arrogance, incompetence and greed" nice
00:08.53Ralithxkcd made a good point recently
00:09.09Ralith$200 or so million is not a very big fraction of the bailout.
00:10.43RalithI'm more concerned by how we seem to be giving bailout money to companies which don't operate in the US at all.
00:10.56Ralithbut then when I think about that much longer
00:11.25RalithI realize I don't have a fraction of the experience necessary to dictate what is and is not reasonable
00:11.29Ralithso I go back to programming instead.
00:14.27``Erikthey don't seem to have the experience necessary to dictate what is and is not reasonable, either :)
00:14.30louipcwhat are the repercussions? :O
00:15.06Ralith``Erik: this is true; that does not make me any more well-equipped to form a useful opinion.
00:15.16Ralithother than "whoever put those guys in charge should be shot"
00:15.16``Erikdepends on how you break it, louie... could be "this doens't seem right, fix it" for a minor goof to the "tire iron" treatment for damage to the repo history
00:15.51Ralithdidn't know you could do that, bar a serious svn bug
00:16.25``ErikI know you could with cvs, fairly easily if you mucked with the wrong commands
00:16.37``Eriklike deleting revisions that aren't HEAD
00:17.02``Erikcvs admin -o <-- thermonuclear cleaning tool, don't do it unless you REALLY know what you're doing :)
00:17.04Ralithwell, you *shouldn't* be able to.
00:18.27louipchmm!
00:18.32Ralithnot unless the repository's stored locally anyway
00:19.43``Erikadmin's a remote command, from back in the days when real programmers didn't make mistakes O:-)
00:20.13louipcyou can't trust open source contributors to be real programmers hehe
00:26.39Ralithsad but true.
00:41.29Ralith``Erik: know of a generic max/min macro pair (e.g. #define MAX(x,y) ((x)>(y)?(x):(y))) defined anywhere?  If not, is that a reasonable addition to vmath.h?
00:49.40``Erikuhm, a lot of os's provide them in basic headers
00:50.26Ralithreally?
00:51.40``Erik/usr/include/sys/param.h on fbsd and osX
00:52.53``Erikand our common.h has FMAX
00:53.04Ralithahh.
00:53.06Ralithperfect.
00:54.51Ralithif I drop an FABS in there, I think it'd complete the coverage of what's missing from vmath.h that was in vecmath.h.
00:54.57Ralithdoes so.
00:55.09``Erikbut fabs() is part of the iso standard
00:56.04Ralithyeah, but fabs() isn't really appropriate when you're dealing with e.g. a long int
00:56.04``Erikthen abs() is right? :)
00:56.13Ralith...I can't believe I didn't notice that.
00:56.26``Eriknotes that fmin and fmax seem to be iso now
00:56.28Ralithsmacks self.
00:56.38``Erikooh, me too, me too!
00:56.40Ralithyeah, but there does not appear to be a corresponding min and max
00:56.41``Eriksmacks ralith
00:56.41``Erik:D
00:56.43RalithD:
00:56.54Ralithso in that case the common.h defines will get to come out and play.
00:57.10``Erikyeh
00:58.10``Erikmy manpages attribute abs/fabs to c99, wonder if they were everywhere but not standardized before that :/
01:06.08Ralithhm.
01:06.22Ralithwhat's the correct abs function to use for a fastf_t?
01:06.44RalithI think I'll just use a (:?) expr there.
01:06.58Ralith'cuz it could theoretically be anything, right?
01:12.40Ralithokay, seems to build.
01:13.11Ralithlets the rest of BRL-CAD do so.
01:17.57``Erik'cept it's always double
01:19.17Ralithwell, if that was the point of it, we'd just be using double.
01:20.02Raliththis makes it much easier to change things for new hardware or special requirements
01:20.14Ralithe.g. the GMP type that was discussed a little while ago
01:20.29Ralithor on some theoretical platform where single precision float is much faster
01:20.42Ralithand so on.
01:22.27Ralithis it safe to run 'make install' parallel to 'make benchmark'?
01:32.12``Erikmight skew things by introducing page misses and cache line misses
01:32.36``Erikand possibly 'biglock' events or cli/sti swaps
01:34.34Ralithwell, moot now anyway.
01:38.53Ralithis it just me or is BRL-CAD faster to build these days?
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02:56.33``Erik"nascar - the most exciting version of traffic"
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04:23.21deeeffachedoes BRL CAD get a lot of commercial/business use?
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05:39.10Ralithstretches
05:39.17Ralithgood to have this done:
05:39.29CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34079 10/brlcad/trunk/src/lgt/ (14 files): Removed the largely redundant vecmath.h from lgt, replacing uses with vmath macros.
05:40.20Ralithdeeeffache: the documentation says as much, though I don't recall ever seeing explanations of by who, exactly.
05:40.52Ralithdeeeffache: it's certainly production-quality; bar friendly GUI, I'd even go so far as to say the quality is above most commercial software.
05:53.20deeeffacheI agree on the quality, I just always hear of autocad or pro/e or solidworks
05:59.59Ralithsure, and you always hear of windows too.
06:00.46Ralithnot to be a linux fanboy or anything, but it's an apt metaphor.
06:12.37deeeffacheIll rephrase, i always see those under the required skill section on job postings
06:12.58Ralithah.
06:13.11RalithWell, not much we can do about that beyond further improve BRL-CAD.
06:13.39RalithWe've got some pretty cool features in the pipeline.
06:15.37deeeffacheYeah, ive been reading the project ideas, id love to see the material properties and physics integration
06:16.55Raliththat's the least of it; the code's undergoing a refactor to allow full editing capabilities as a library, and there's work to support version control and remote collaboration too, iirc.
06:37.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34080 10/brlcad/trunk/src/burst/ (Makefile.am grid.c paint.c plot.c prnt.c vecmath.h): Removed another redundant vecmath.h from burst, replacing uses with vmath.h macros.
06:40.12Raliththat one was much easier.
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07:31.11CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Paulcs 07http://brlcad.org * r1297 10/wiki/Animation: /* With Mencoder */
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10:34.21d-lomorning all!
10:39.30mafm_hi d-lo
10:41.11d-lowhats shakin mafm?
10:42.06mafm_not much, reading thedailywtf during a pause :)
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13:44.52CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34081 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (9 files in 3 dirs): Modify bwish and archer to NOT use BLT.
14:04.35CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1301 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code: 2009
14:06.46CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1302 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009: we're in, update info
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14:14.07CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1303 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code: update info, reorganize
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15:47.58*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.4 posted this weekend (20090313) || GSoC 2009 Begins!
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18:19.43CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34085 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/archer: Make the initial window size a little smaller. Eventually, the window size and location will be saved and used at startup.
18:41.48CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34086 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tk/library/panedwindow.tcl: Hack to get around the occassional complaining from the panedwindow about identify being a bad option.
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19:33.16CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34087 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ (Archer.tcl ArcherCore.tcl): Modified the buildComboBox method to use ttk::combobox.
19:52.33CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34088 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/GeometryEditFrame.tcl: Modified the buildComboBox method to use ttk::combobox.
19:52.48CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34089 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Minor cleanup.
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20:16.49brlcadmafm_: heh
20:19.55kanzuremadant: Hey. Dawn, right?
20:19.58*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=500@resnet-46-40.dorm.utexas.edu)
20:20.06kanzuremadant: I just came across this: http://code.google.com/p/descomp/
20:20.07kanzurethat's you, right?
20:20.25kanzureDo you have any of the Stiny papers on parametric shape grammars?
20:20.53brlcadRalith: various editors and stream tools will automatically strip out the carriage returnss, the windows files in svn certainly haven't changed line ending anytime soon
20:21.10brlcadRalith: oh yeah, and nice refactoring!
20:28.06brlcadsvn intentionally left out that horrible feature of cvs admin, no way to nuke revisions other than dumping the backend repository and filtering out revision(s) (via svndumpfilter)
20:29.29brlcadabs/fabs/min/max are all portability problematic prior to c99
20:30.46brlcaddeeeffache: what would constitute a lot?
20:32.11brlcadah, see you all already hashed that out as well.  :)
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20:51.23CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34090 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob changed archer/bwish to no longer use BLT. annotate the change to our external dependencies.
20:58.40*** join/#brlcad BenReilly (n=benreill@d154-5-59-169.bchsia.telus.net)
21:02.27BenReillyHello everyone. I'm looking at applying to GSoC, and to begin, I'd like to know what sort of software development experience BRL-CAD would be looking for in their candidates.
21:02.56brlcadhowdy BenReilly
21:03.07CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34091 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: reduced archer's initial and maximum window size from 2048x1600 to 1400x1100 (with max at 1600x1200)
21:03.50brlcadBenReilly: experience isn't nearly as much of an issue (depending on the project) as is the ability to learn quickly and take initiative
21:04.11``Erikenough to be successful at your project, but not so much that it doesn't provide a fun challenge? :D
21:04.28brlcadell said
21:04.36brlcad'well said' even
21:06.28BenReillyRight, of course. As well, though I don't mean to pile too many questions on you, how much C/C++ experience are you looking for. For instance, some ideas require a "familiarity" with the language, and I would like to know how extensive my familiarity should be. I ask because I have not worked a lot with C or C++, but I have a strong knowledge of Java and general programming language syntax and such.
21:07.02pacman87BenReilly: it depends on the project
21:07.16*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@adsl-68-73-206-130.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net)
21:08.13pacman87the hardest part of my project last year was working through all the math
21:08.15``ErikI'd imagine one of the biggest hurdles for java->c/c++ is grasping pointers. if you're comfortable with those, the rest is just minor syntax
21:08.55``Erikof course, we have chunks that are java and tcl/tk, as well *shrug*
21:08.56BenReilly``Erik: That's what I've heard.
21:10.19``Eriktell ya what, figure out what you'd like to do, then we can talk about what level of ability might be needed for that?
21:11.12``Erik(unless brlcad has a better idea)
21:11.35BenReillySounds good. Well, one that caught my eye was the "New Geometry Converter"
21:11.39BenReillyWould you like a link?
21:11.50``Erikwhich format?
21:12.52BenReillyIn terms of converting? Let's go with POV-Ray.
21:13.47``Erikooh, that'll be a tough one, but it shouldn't require a lot of C knowledge. it'd be quite a bit of effort mapping and translating the different primitive sets and re-creating the procedural stuff in POV, though
21:14.48``Erikstarted one a while back hoping to hack it out in a day or two for performance comparisons, decided it was not a 1-2 day hack :D
21:16.38BenReillyAh, I see. So then, what sort of steps would be involved in that kind of project?
21:17.18BenReillyIs it simply (though perhaps not truly "simply") converting a brl-cad file to and from a .pov file?
21:17.44``Erikayup
21:18.06``Erikg-pov -o mything.pov mything.g all.g
21:18.14``Erikpov-g mything.pov mything.g
21:18.17brlcadbbiab
21:18.18BenReillyWell then, I suppose that I should become familiar with the brl-cad files then, eh?
21:18.25brlcadalways a good thing ;)
21:18.29``Erikmake those g-pov/pov-g things and it's a full converter
21:18.47BenReillyGotcha
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21:20.16``Erikthe tricky part is we have primitives they don't, they have primitives we don't, and some of the primitives shared are subtly different. Additionally, pov allows things like logical constructs and loops (turing complete, yo!) where BRL-CAD is static geometry
21:21.11BenReillybrb
21:21.57``Erik(E.G. pov can do "for(i=0;i<100;i++) rotate(sph, somepoint, i*2);" to generate 100 sph's rotated around a point, where in BRL-CAD, you need those 100 sph's in the .g file)
21:25.36BenReillyHaha, wow. Now I would imagine that in converting a .g file to .pov, it would be great to be able to take those 100 rotate() calls and drop them into a for loop, no?
21:26.35BenReillyThough that in itself would not be trivial for anything but a single call repeated x times.
21:32.43BenReillyPardon me, I misread the last part of your example.
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21:33.00BenReillyIn any case, I'm going to go poke around brl-cad and see what it's all about
21:33.13BenReillyThanks for the info
21:37.29BenReillyAnd I'll be off. Perhaps I'll talk to you later.
21:37.41*** part/#brlcad BenReilly (n=benreill@d154-5-59-169.bchsia.telus.net)
21:57.29Ralithbrlcad: the weird thing was, my local copies had *added* ^Ms
21:57.33Ralithalso, thanks :]
21:58.19Ralithneeds to decide on a project to apply for
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22:54.35jonored_also needs to work out a project to apply for. Unsure as to whether to apply for finishing a real run through the G-code thing.
23:38.41deeeffachebrlcad: im not sure, I was looking to find some companies that use it as their primary CAD software and have not found any so far.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090327

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090327

00:14.59``Erikhttp://www.collegehumor.com/video:1905311 O.O neat
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01:57.34``Erikdangit, this fortune cookie says "you are not a winner. try again." :(
02:10.18starseekerreflects that's almost exactly how he felt doing taxes :-/
02:22.14brlcaddeeeffache: the U.S. Army Research Laboratory is one of the few places that use it as their primary
02:22.33brlcadas it's specifically tuned to their needs (and comes from them and continues to have development funded by them, etc)
02:23.28brlcadwhich actually happens to be more of an expert-driven CAE environment, but with strong solid modeling and geometry needs too
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05:34.15deeeffachebrlcad: thats good to hear.  My initial assumption was that they open sourced it because they were moving on to something "better"
07:33.21brlcaddeeeffache: nope, it was opened sourced after many years of effort not because it's not in use, but quite the opposite -- ARL is heavily dependent on and supportive of BRL-CAD, but has relatively limited development capacity because of other priorities (they're not in the software business after all, they do research and analysis work)
07:35.56brlcadgoing open source was (successfully) argued as a means to give back to the community (tax-payer funded) and encourage/allow open community development, to potentially see BRL-CAD development accelerate faster than ARL can directly fund (and for more varied interests) -- a win/win situation
07:47.49Ralith``Erik: a fortune cookie says that?
07:47.57Ralithsince when can you win something from fortune cookies
07:49.25brlcadkudos to Peter Kan for getting his app in first/early :)
07:49.37Ralithneeds to do that.
07:50.00brlcadindeed
07:50.38brlcadkeep in mind that you can get something in quickly and then continue to revise it through the sochop interface
07:51.16Ralithoh, really?
07:51.21Raliththat's handy
07:51.41brlcadit's after the deadline that it gets locked down
07:53.16*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
07:53.39brlcadmorning d_rossberg
07:53.42Ralithso why is the oop API project identified as high difficulty?  I always thought of wrappers like that as being relatively straightforward.
07:53.55d_rossbergmoin moin brlcad
07:56.24brlcadRalith: mostly because it requires a fair bit of background knowledge that most people don't have -- knowledge of OOP design patterns, knowledge of our libraries (librt, libwdb, libged, libbn, libbu), (basic) familiarity with geometry engines like acis or granite, ..
07:57.10brlcadit's also a lot of work, a lot of places to get something very wrong or make something very poorly designed
07:58.37Ralithah.
07:59.58brlcadyou can get away with only having two of those three, heck even just OO design .. but then you'd have to be even more adept at learning a large codebase quickly (and working on an effort that is already under way too)
08:00.34Ralithis there documentation available for acis/granite?
08:00.59brlcadjust what you can find by searching, they're commercial CAD engines
08:01.28Ralithwell, that doesn't necessarily mean there aren't good docs up anywhere.
08:01.29Ralithchecks
08:01.29brlcaddon't really want to use them either (in case there are patent issues, for example), but should be aware of their scope and intent
08:03.31deeeffacheWhat happened to the project priorities on the wiki faq? http://brlcad.org/wiki/FAQ
08:05.56RalithAre the doxygen docs hosted on brlcad.org?
08:06.07CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34092 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/avs.c): added const specifiers to bu_avs_add_nonunique()'s parameters
08:07.46CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34093 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added bu_flip.c and bu_sync.c to stay in sync with Makefile.am
08:08.44brlcadRalith: mmm.. only an old copy, I believe
08:09.11Ralithmightn't it be a Good Thing to make them available there?
08:09.13brlcadhttp://brlcad.sourceforge.net/doxygen/index.html
08:09.20brlcadsure would
08:09.43brlcadjust nobody has taken the time to do it, busy with other things
08:10.27Ralithah well.  I'd take care of it were it covered by svn.
08:12.02RalithI don't suppose you'd know why g3d depends on the SVN version of OGRE?
08:12.54brlcaddeeeffache: fixed
08:13.04CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1304 10/wiki/FAQ: they're not in my dir
08:13.46brlcadRalith: I believe there were build system problems that was only fixed in latest svn -- mafm can surely recall better though
08:14.12Ralithbuild system problems? O.o
08:14.17Ralithwell, I guess I'll wait for mafm to show.
08:14.29Ralithand get ogre updated here while I'm at it.
08:14.49brlcadd_rossberg: heh, subliminal slip?  .. bu_* ? :-)
08:14.55deeeffacheblasted ~sean, thanks!
08:16.24brlcadRalith: assuming they'd build clean out of the box or with a simple bootstrapping, they'd be a prime candidate to become an svn:externals
08:17.13Ralithbrlcad: isn't it bad practice to make such assumptions of a trunk?
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08:17.36Ralith(assuming that mafm was aware of the bugfix branch and refrained from its use because it didn't work)
08:17.37brlcadnever said it'd need to be trunk
08:17.53RalithI'm not familiar with externals
08:17.58Ralithcan you force certain revisions, or something?
08:19.05brlcadit just takes a repository path like checkout, so yeah -- regular revision syntax works just fine
08:19.26brlcadnot that using trunk would be horrible -- they're actually a pretty stable trunk last time I was working off svn at least
08:20.16Raliththeir page gives that impression too, but it would still result in unpredicttable behavior
08:20.21Ralith-t
08:20.40Ralithespecially if some sort of breaking API change came along.
08:22.13Ralithwell, I'll see if I can make g3d work with stable and make the whole issue moot.
08:22.25brlcadgoes both ways, arguably easier to fix (less time-intensive) the sooner the change occurs before code is entrenched around the old code/api
08:23.08Ralithdoes make our own trunk less stable with respect to g3d, though.
08:23.17Ralithnot that that matters too much at this stage, I suppose
08:23.43brlcadmoot issue, though -- that wasn't/isn't a production release code yet -- it's a "get it working" project, basic fundamentals
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08:24.48brlcadmore important at this point that it just not actually take up any time (which it didn't/doesn't), so the focus can be on the interface
08:25.12Ralithyeah
08:35.06Ralithbrlcad: remind me why mafm didn't use CEGUI?
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11:44.14starseekernotes that as of last night, trunk passed make distcheck on gentoo
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13:01.49CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34094 10/rt^3/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): SetName() and SetMatrix() for leaf nodes
13:03.08CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34095 10/rt^3/trunk/include/brlcad/ConstDatabase.h: removed unnecessary virtual
13:06.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34096 10/rt^3/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): read and write Object-attributes (bu_attribute_value_set)
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13:24.30madant_kanzure: stiny's papers are awesome albeit old, a good resource is cumincad .. the membership to acadia, caadria, ecaade etc. are pretty cheap but really worth it. I like the later approaches by Knight etc. Mathematical formalism of shape grammars is cute indeed but practical applications would be a greater awesomeness :D
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13:46.28CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03D rossberg 07http://brlcad.org * r1305 10/wiki/BRL-CAD%27s_core_C%2B%2B_interface:
13:47.01brlcadheh, punctuation
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13:55.38brlcadhowdy dreeves
13:55.49dreeveshey
13:55.58CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03D rossberg 07http://brlcad.org * r1306 10/wiki/CoreInterface_Hallo_World_Example: coreInterface "Hello World" example
13:58.38dreevesHow's the rowing brlcad?
14:02.50brlcaddreeves: chilly, but great
14:10.14CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03D rossberg 07http://brlcad.org * r1307 10/wiki/BRL-CAD%27s_core_C%2B%2B_interface: added the tree walker example
14:11.17kanzuremadant_: http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/msg/82dd7c56fcfaefb4? re: shape grammars.
14:16.40CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03D rossberg 07http://brlcad.org * r1308 10/wiki/CoreInterface_Tree_Walker_Example: coreInterface tree walker example
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14:55.07CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34097 10/rt^3/trunk/src/coreInterface/Combination.cpp: it looks like a non-region combination may have other boolean operations than unions too
15:48.06CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03D rossberg 07http://brlcad.org * r1309 10/wiki/BRL-CAD%27s_core_C%2B%2B_interface: added the PrintTitle example
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16:15.04CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34098 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/TODO.BREP: Add some notes/brainstorming related to the question of deciding if two points are the same point when they have error bounds.
17:20.06starseekermake distcheck passes on the mac
17:51.51brlcadwoot
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18:00.56*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (n=erik@ftp.brlcad.org)
18:01.24``Erikstupid comcrap
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18:18.04brlcadhowdy beebee_
18:18.14beebee_hello
18:19.43brlcadwonders if there are any others interested in being a gsoc mentor, send me a note in private or public if interested
18:21.41beebee_sorry, I am new to brlcad development, but i hope you find a mentor. I would love to see that some of the proposals gets implemented
18:22.06``ErikI can ask indianlarry for ya, if you haven't already
18:23.46jonoredOn the other side, any suggestions for someone who wants to write up a proposal and likes math a bunch?
18:26.41brlcadbeebee_: we have mentors, just reminding a few other devs that hang out in here that they have the opportunity :)
18:26.57brlcad``Erik: I asked him, he said yes, but he still hasn't gone to sochop yet
18:27.25brlcadjonored: heh, you mean suggestions for a project proposal?
18:28.01``Erikaight, got him on the page now
18:29.01jonoredbrlcad: ...yes? I suppose I should go read the webpage again and try to find one...
18:30.40brlcadjonored, the more math-intenseive suggestions are actually all annotated on the ideas page
18:30.43brlcadjust search for math
18:31.10``Erikall ur maff r belong to teh cheezburger kittehs
18:31.59jonoredOkay. I did finally work out that curvature of an intersection of a plane and a surface thing, and kinda liked the doing.
18:32.58brlcadright, that was your patch last year, yes?
18:33.24brlcader, not surface, but line and curve?
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18:34.12jonoredNever passed stuff in. I was just digging through trying to be able to slice a surface with a plane and interpolate the curve with arcs.
18:36.14jonoredAnd there isn't somewhere that I know it'd fit outside of the reprap-specific stuff I was doing.
18:38.06brlcadah, jonored .. confused you with jdoliner :)
18:38.16brlcadhe's the one that had the line intersection patch
18:39.55jdolinerhmm it just buzzed me
18:40.09jdolinerI guess you weren't actually looking for me though
18:41.21jonoredAh, okay. That would explain that. Would digging into constraints & parametrics be something viable?
18:42.28brlcadjdoliner: nope, just talking about you
18:42.51jdolinerI see, carry on then gents
18:42.56brlcadjonored: possibly, but you'd need to coordinate that with madant since it's a previous gsoc project already "in progress"
18:43.28brlcadyou'd have to sort out who's working on what since he'll possibly continue working on it as well this year
18:43.35brlcad(and you can't collaborate on a group project)
18:44.13brlcadhave to be separatable tasks with your own goals -- otherwise, yeah -- fantastic area to work on
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18:50.46brlcad``Erik: tell larry that he has to accept the invite next
18:51.22``Erikhe's filling out the form right now
18:52.00brlcadhappy happy joy joy
18:52.12jonoredOkay. So interesting, but it'd take effort to fit it into gsoc. CSG of BREP?
18:52.47``Erikhe's all good now?
18:53.36``Erikhuh, actually, I coulda clicked in and accepted him, too
18:57.02brlcadyep, he's good
18:57.32brlcadjonored: CSG of BREP is pretty tough, but very high priority too :)
18:57.49brlcadvery much related to what starseeker and I are presently working on
19:11.50starseekerhoovers up articles on intersection algorithms
19:13.29jonoredI should probably write that up then, it sounds like fun. And start reading. Or rather, continue reading, as now I've gotten distracted.
19:22.53brlcadcool
19:23.00brlcadthat should be a fun project
19:23.15brlcadjonored: you may also want to check out some of the more recent notes in doc/TODO.BREP
20:05.30CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Paulcs 07http://brlcad.org * r1311 10/wiki/Animation: /* With Mencoder */
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20:18.30starseekerraises eyebrows - apparently MeshLab is using Eigen. Hmm
20:32.25starseekermake distcheck passed on 64 bit Redhat Linux
20:53.44hippieindamakin8hey brlcad
20:59.34brlcadhowdy hippieindamakin8
21:02.15hippieindamakin8hey rt now opennurbs just supports the brep and the interconversion of the representations is wat is expected isnt it
21:02.28hippieindamakin8i went through the papers of esolid and bit of boole
21:04.26hippieindamakin8brlcad, wat do u exactly mean by BREP-on-BREP CSG evaluations ?
21:06.45brlcadbasically, you have some spline-surface object (a NURBS object) and another spline-surface object that overlap and there's a specified boolean evaluation of subtraction, intersection, or union -- evaluate the surfaces and derive the resulting spline-surface object
21:07.57hippieindamakin8brlcad, this includes nm objects
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21:08.44brlcadwhat are nm objects
21:08.58hippieindamakin8non - manifold
21:09.28hippieindamakin8brlcad, the project involves computationally optimised evaluations of the breps
21:09.38hippieindamakin8is it ?
21:12.19brlcadthey're not optimised
21:12.23brlcadthey're just evaluated
21:12.44brlcadthey from an unevaluated form to an evaluated form
21:13.09brlcadand no, I don't think it'd necessarily need to include non-manifold geometry but it would need to handle n-manifold geometry
21:13.11hippieindamakin8yeah basically the evaluation of the booleans is wat has to be done
21:14.16hippieindamakin8brlcad, yeah true it is very rarely that we encounter the non-manifold geometries (may be because of the degenerate cases of the boolean operations on csgs)
21:15.05brlcadwonders if hippieindamakin8 has something against the word "what"
21:15.17hippieindamakin8:)
21:28.48*** join/#brlcad jonored (n=jonored@dsl092-076-134.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
22:03.58Ralithhey jonored!
22:04.00Ralithhow's the slicer?
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22:48.53``ErikO.o
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23:43.26bjorkintoshjonored did not want to talk about the slicer.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090328

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090328

00:04.50Ralithpokes jonored
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00:51.40``Erikeeks, take that somewhere private, ralith O.O
00:52.20Ralithprude.
01:09.55Ralithdiscovers that all the pkgconfig files appear to be broken.
01:09.59Ralithdoes something about this.
01:11.14CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34099 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/pkgconfig/ (13 files): Fixed fatal dependent variable mis-ordering
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01:40.48kanzureHi all. Has anyone any experience with elmerfem?
02:03.47Ralithdear god it's hard to get RBGui to build
02:34.53Ralithrewrites most of g3d's build system
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03:20.39CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34100 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (10 files in 2 dirs): Extensive build system cleanup/reliability fixes: BRL-CAD is now correctly autodetected, reliability of all other dependency detection has vastly improved.
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03:24.30Ralithbrlcad: do you know if mafm's returning this year to GSoC on the GUI?
03:27.50Ralithalso, seems to work fine(ish) on OGRE 1.6.1
03:28.06Raliththe build system's largely Done Right now :]
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04:27.32brlcadRalith: actually I don't know -- he's had personal matters to take care of, he may not
04:27.55brlcadglad to hear it worked ;)
04:29.41RalithI think I'll apply for that, then
04:29.50Ralithseeing as I've some degree of familiarity with it
04:33.48brlcadfeel free to mail him or the mailing list to check up with him
04:34.25brlcadit would be nice to see someone continue making progress
04:57.55Ralithyeah, I'm looking forward to having it hooked up and doing things
04:58.30RalithI'll see if I can get in touch with him, and get my app started in the meantime
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06:01.42brlcadRalith: if you do apply for a previous gsoc project, please try to also put forward another application for one of the other ideas as well
06:01.57brlcadthat goes for anyone and any previous gsoc project
06:03.55brlcadit often happens that some of the most desirable students all put in for the same project, rejecting several desirable students that would have otherwise been selected for a different project
06:04.40brlcadcourse that's only if someone can put together two *good* applications, and the second one doesn't decrease the quality of the first one!  if you just have time for one, then so be it
06:05.18brlcadalso an even better reason to submit it earlier rather than later so we can give feedback and gauge whether there are conflicts
06:06.32Raliththere're multiple people going for that one?
06:07.30RalithI'm certainly happy to apply to another, though; I'm quite interested in getting in on GSoC, so anything that increases my chances...
06:07.48Ralithnot to mention this is a fun project.
06:08.06brlcadthere usually are three or four projects that get several submissions each by the deadline
06:08.45brlcadlast year, there were about 20 valid interesting applications, about 10 of those were very good, from there we narrowed down on 4
06:08.57Ralithwhile you're around; do you remember if there was any reason g3d is using RBGui rather than something more active?
06:09.02Raliththe project's outright abandoned these days.
06:09.29Ralithsays as much on the site, and it took me half an hour of hacking to make it and its dependent lib build, including writing a build system for it.
06:09.45brlcadyeah, there was a long long series of discussions about a gui framework
06:10.46Ralithso, preferable to adopt RBGui over switching it out?
06:10.59brlcadrbgui being dead was one of its downsides, but wasn't seen as a huge one iff it did everything that was needed (and it had several very interesting extension aspects) -- it was on par with two or so others iirc, and it came down to just running with any one of them
06:11.12brlcadno, not tied to rbgui
06:11.51brlcadit was just to move past dwelling on it since there were so many questions about it vs others that really couldn't be answered without just trying it out
06:12.33Ralithhm.  I'd imagined there must have been some compelling reason to work off of a dead project.
06:12.52brlcadif it can be made to work, great -- I highly suspect we will end up with a lot of customized widgets and interactions as it starts coming to demo-state
06:13.31brlcadRalith: have you seen their demo?
06:13.36RalithI don't think so
06:14.08brlcadsome of the previous discussion, fwiw -- http://brlcad.org/wiki/Talk:OpenGL_GUI_Framework
06:14.10RalithI'll admit that when brought to a working state it doesn't look half bad in g3d
06:14.36Ralithquite modern.
06:14.50brlcadhttp://rightbraingames.com/Gui.wmv
06:15.16Ralithpulls it down
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06:19.00Ralith...that is *very* aesthetically appealing
06:19.43Ralithput even a reasonably usable editor behind that and we'd probably get quite the spike in users out of ooh-shiny factor alone.
06:19.57brlcadnods
06:20.20brlcadthe basic skinny about cegui (which I love in concept, btw), is that it doesn't/didn't yet have vector gui elements, and some widgets are missing
06:21.06Ralithanything really that hard to add?
06:21.09Ralithoo, those spline widgets are neat
06:21.39brlcadyeah, it would be -- cegui is based around a markup description layer similar to html
06:21.53Raliththat extensively? I thought that was just for layout.
06:21.55brlcadso window decorations and borders are all themed using images
06:22.22Ralithdo you know how extensive RBGui's vector support is?
06:22.41brlcadhave talked to a couple of the devs that work on it before -- they plan to add it at some point, just will take a lot of api changes
06:22.49brlcadnope
06:22.54Ralithkk
06:23.09brlcadyeah, isn't to say that rbgui solves that problem
06:23.11Ralithfirst glance suggests just fills and gradients, but I haven't looked at the code yet, and those cover most practical use cases anyway I guess
06:23.11brlcadeither
06:23.21brlcadmore just what came up about cegui
06:24.01brlcadyeah, it's a simple enough library that the assertion was it can probably do just about everything we need it for in the immediate future regardless
06:24.26brlcadas could a couple others, and if we had to live with maintaining rbgui or one of the others, so be it
06:24.26Ralithwell, you've talked me into agreement with the decision.
06:24.45Ralithas you say, considering the amount of customization we're ultimately likely to apply to anything, that's not unreasonable.
06:25.05brlcadstill better than rolling our own :0
06:25.18Ralithindeed.
06:25.30brlcadnow another option that came up just in the last year
06:25.46brlcadthat was previously a non-starter due to licensing.. qt
06:26.05brlcadcould see someone trying out a qt+ogre swap out
06:26.12Ralithqt has bad licensing?
06:26.19RalithI thought it was LGPL
06:26.28brlcadthat just happened this year
06:26.31Ralithah, right
06:26.58Ralithwell, I dunno.  Qt can't render inside an OpenGL context, can it?
06:27.29brlcadhm, I don't know -- would be a little surprised if it couldn't
06:27.32Ralithif that's correct, that limits our freedom in design significantly.
06:27.33Ralithreally?
06:28.02RalithI'd be surprised if it did; maybe I have a misconception of it, but it seems wholly targeted at, uh
06:28.05Ralithnot sure what the term is
06:28.06Ralithnormal apps?
06:29.25RalithI wouldn't expect gtk to render within a OpenGL context, either.
06:29.29Ralithnever seen them used that way, certainly
06:29.54Ralithevery Qt/gtk opengl app I've seen always just had an embedded context, with the GUI surrounding it.
06:30.17Ralithnot that that doesn't have a history of working perfectly well, but I like the possibilities offered by having them render to the same place.
06:30.26brlcadnods
06:30.36Ralithnot to mention the plain visual appeal of all the neat fading, smooth movement, etc. that RBGui implements and that can't be reliably done otherwise.
06:30.41brlcadcertainly can say definitely without some research/testing
06:30.47Ralithyeah
06:31.35brlcadrbgui gets away with it simply by rendering everything itself, which has the cost of lost native look and feel (which is a good and bad thing!)
06:31.57brlcadi don't mind not looking native if it looks really good, and it should
06:32.01RalithI'm not sure anyone expects a modeling app to have native look and feel thesedays.
06:32.10Ralithor maybe that's just graphics apps.
06:32.42brlcadyeah, modeling is a lot like the gaming industry in that regard where custom guis are more the norm than the exception
06:33.00Ralithand beyond that, native look and feel is only an element on OSX/Windows
06:33.07brlcadhttp://doc.trolltech.com/3.3/opengl.html seems to indicate it's like any other widget
06:33.17brlcadimplying it could be layered as needed
06:33.26Ralithit's nigh-impossible to guarantee an app fits in well on a *nix environment.
06:33.37Ralithoh, I didn't know Qt had capacity for that kind of layering.
06:33.41RalithI guess it would make sense.
06:34.09Ralithwould be an odd omission for something so large and widely used
06:35.04brlcadRalith: you've seen the IOE video, yes?
06:35.08Ralithyup
06:35.13brlcadokay, great
06:35.14Ralithit was quite a while back though
06:35.42Ralithit struck me as very unique
06:35.50brlcadthat pretty much surveys the basic look, feel, and interaction direction I'd like to start with
06:35.54Ralithhave a link for it? I should probably review it.
06:36.04brlcadbrlcad.org/design/gui
06:36.10Ralithhehe
06:36.28Ralith_final or _full?
06:38.30brlcadfinal I believe
06:39.05brlcadinteresting qt interface with opengl contexts, http://www.qtsoftware.com/images/customers/coolapps/realflow4.jpg
06:39.33Raliththat looks about like what I'd expect
06:39.45Ralithblender-style UIs have always felt a lot more integrated to me, tbh
06:39.48brlcadyeah
06:42.01brlcada little better, http://chaos.troll.no/%7Egunnar/jambi_image_viewer.jpg
06:42.40brlcadit's faked, though ;)
06:42.47brlcadrather, it's just an image
06:42.54Ralithyeah, looked that way
06:43.01Ralith(I can tell because of the pixels and etc)
06:43.25Raliththat and the inconsistent widgets.
06:43.51Ralith...and the "Image Viewer" in the title.
06:44.25RalithI suppose I like the idea of sticking with RBGui, then, and extending it to fit our needs; might well even be easier than adapting a more fully-realized lib.
06:44.32brlcadhere's what I was looking for
06:44.52brlcadmore in line, http://stellarium.org/img/screenshots/0.10-stel_gui.jpg
06:45.06Ralith...that's Qt?>
06:45.09brlcadyep
06:45.12Ralithwow.
06:45.17Ralithbecause that doesn't look like Qt at all.
06:45.20Raliththat looks fully integrated.
06:45.26RalithI wonder how hard it was for them to do that.
06:45.56brlcadyeah, qt's various classes (QtButton, etc) can have their display method overridden in various ways
06:45.59Ralithstill probably can't offer the more 'fun' visual effects, but that's pretty impressive.
06:46.16brlcadbasically allowing custom widget look and feel
06:46.40brlcadwhile still providing all the same "basic widgets" that you want like tabs, sliders, scrollers, textareas, etc
06:47.24brlcadyeah, don't know how hard in practice that is, just have seem several projects customize their qt gui that way
06:47.38brlcadif we ended up with something like that, I'd be content to live with qt ;)
06:47.40Ralithexample code in abundance, then.
06:47.56brlcador rbgui, or whatever, means to an end
06:48.33Ralithis inclined to favor the status quo for now, in the absence of any compelling reason to switch.
06:49.15Ralithreminds me, I recall reading on the Ogre forums a while back of someone working on a GPU backend for Cairo
06:56.42Ralithhttp://github.com/akyrtzi/cairo-gral/tree/master
06:56.45Ralithmay be of interest.
06:57.45brlcadwow, stellarium gui is really impressive
06:58.42Ralithinstalls
06:58.48Ralithwhat's caught your eye with it?
06:59.17brlcadit's very neatly integrated
07:00.32brlcadtranslucent overlay windows, persistent menus, an info bar, a persistent info overlay, drawer menus, clean window/full-screen support
07:03.01Ralithhm.  I wonder what license they use, and how easily torn out their GUI code is.
07:03.41brlcadgpl
07:03.49Ralithah.
07:03.56Raliththat would be a problem, then, right?
07:04.00Ralithas far as taking directly.
07:04.08brlcadto use their code direclty, yes
07:04.20Ralithgaaah
07:04.24Ralithsomething on my system hates xinerama
07:04.36Ralithmy mouse keeps dying >:|
07:04.53Ralithanyway.
07:04.57RalithQt's an awfully big dependency.
07:05.11brlcadintersting that they have many of the same widgets as ioe, just in different places, slightly different behaviors
07:06.38Ralithbrb, need to restart X
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07:08.51brlcadyes, it is a big dep.  if it did exactly what we needed, though, I'd certainly live with that over anything else that didn't give us a crisp beautiful gui
07:09.05brlcadif we could get that gui with something else, something smaller, even better
07:11.20Ralithfor all its size, does Qt actually offer much relevant to us that RBGui doesn't?
07:16.01brlcadthat's hard to say without doing an evaluation
07:16.27brlcadlaying out some of the basic requirements and features and directly doing a comparison
07:16.49brlcador just dropping the code in and giving it a go to see how it works
07:18.00brlcadthe glitzy things that make stellarium very compelling are not exactly provided by qt directly either, so it's really just a matter of widgets and extensibility
07:18.23Ralithnods
07:18.36Ralithexamines the RBGui widget implementations
07:19.41brlcadrbgui is so simple that my initial reaction last year was that we could probably gut and extend rbgui to do what we needed with a minimal amount of effort (no less than most frameworks), at least to get to an end state that looks and feels like IOE
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07:21.52brlcadwhere rbgui will fail is if we need native look and feel, native widget support and the bells and whistles that come with native widgets (like pervasive spell-checking, copy paste support, shortcut navigation and selection keybindings, etc)
07:22.51Ralithcopy/paste support should at the very least be trivial to tack on.
07:23.01Ralithat least in X
07:23.02brlcadeach feature individually is trivial
07:23.15brlcadthere are just about a hundred of them :)
07:23.18Ralithpoint.
07:24.09Ralithand Qt is very, very well supported.
07:24.38Ralithand documented, and ported, and maintained, and...
07:24.46brlcadand big ;)
07:25.01Raliththe counterpoint to that is that most users will have it anyway.
07:25.11brlcadbut yeah, it'd be a non-issue otherwise
07:25.19brlcadas it pretty much just works
07:25.50Ralithit certainly has its attractions.
07:26.51brlcadso that could be a gsoc project in itself
07:27.03brlcadmake [insert toolkit here] work
07:27.30Ralithnot nearly as fun as getting g3d able to actually interact with some geometry, though.
07:27.32brlcadtaking it all the way to matching most of the look and feel intended with customizations
07:27.45brlcadtrue
07:28.00brlcadbut the latter is also complicated by the fact that the backend is a rapidly moving target
07:28.19brlcadthere's the libged library (which it presently hooks to)
07:28.35brlcadand which will give it most of mged's command-line functionality
07:29.13brlcadand there's also the new geometry engine, which is ready for basic geometry management but not for a full-blown editor just yet (not this summer)
07:29.46brlcadand there's the geometry service, which is what it should ultimately be using but is even farther still away from completion
07:30.07Ralithso, time might be best spent on the frontend?
07:30.33brlcadprobably, that's the one piece that can be worked on in relative isolation
07:30.59Ralithalright.
07:31.10brlcador working entirely on the backend, working on one of those three, but then there's not much to see
07:31.34brlcaddoing just a little of the front and little of the back would be a bit of a mess I think
07:31.34Ralithand a lot more familiarity with BRL-CAD required, no?
07:32.20brlcaddepends, for GE yes, for GS slightly less so, for GED not really (it's mostly refactoring and api cleanup now, almost done)
07:33.16RalithI think my real reservation about Qt is not so much its raw size as that it tries to be an entire application framework rather than just a GUI.
07:33.24Raliththat said, I suppose this is not necessarily a bad thing.
07:33.33brlcadthat is true
07:33.54Ralithif it's good at what it does--which I don't know--that might make things a lot easier.
07:35.07brlcadit would be a gsoc-sized project to convert existing rbgui portion over to qt, i'm sure there's refactoring that would need to happen along the way
07:35.46RalithI'm not sure it wouldn't be easier to start mostly from scratch
07:35.59Ralithconsidering that even an interface to Ogre is missing
07:36.40brlcadhm, I wouldn't like that -- there's a lot of good effort invested already
07:36.55Raliththat's my feeling too.
07:36.55brlcadthings like various mouse interaction modes for example
07:37.27brlcadI'd rather see it evolve that be replaced, even if it feels like it's a slower path
07:37.33Ralithit's hard to say how much of it would survive such a major switch
07:38.08Ralithbut, I certainly see your point, and I'm sure such an approach is not infeasible.
07:38.29brlcadperfectly valid to evolve into something completely new
07:40.16brlcadbut that would be determined by doing the work and seeing the incremental steps it needs to take to get there
07:40.39Ralithyeah.
07:42.16brlcadanother good gsoc project.. de-tcl'fying the core libraries (libbu, libbn, libwdb, librt, libged)
07:42.24Raliththere's TCL in those? O.o
07:42.25brlcadthat's a big refactoring task
07:42.47Ralithwhat's it doing there?
07:42.48brlcadthe C api of tcl
07:43.11brlcadtcl actually has a very nice C library
07:43.23Ralithhuh?
07:43.33Ralithmaybe I just need to look at the code
07:44.39brlcadtcl provides a slew of basic utility classes and callback mechansisms that slowly integrated into the libs over two decades
07:45.13brlcadthings like hash tables, appending results to strings, and evaluating callbacks
07:46.09Ralithso, move implementations of all that into libbu?
07:46.10brlcadthat aspect of tcl is actually very nice, but for simple containment reasons, I'm reverting a decision that was made about 15 years ago to allow tcl to mix in with core code
07:46.50brlcadyeah, some things we have implementations for, other things would need some basic support added or alternatives found
07:47.31Ralithsounds fairly straightforward.
07:48.01Ralithif involved.
07:48.30brlcadit is, it's just a lot of work
07:48.48brlcadprobably would end up refactoring somewhere around ...
07:48.59brlcaddoes a quick line count check for tcl'isms
07:51.41brlcadso at a minimum, that is refactoring about 4000 lines of code
07:54.10Ralithrefactor linecounts can be misleading
07:54.32Ralithconsidering how much can be done with careful application of regular expressions.
07:54.46brlcadalso includes about 200 functions apparently .. so expand that out to all callers and you're probably looking at 20k or so
07:55.51brlcadyou could do a few things with regexps, but it'll still be a little tedious
07:56.38Ralithwell, sure.
07:56.47brlcadmost of it won't just be a function change though, it'll be a different interface and there will be a hundred files that have to be hand-edited because of all the different styles of use
07:57.40brlcadplus given this hits the grand-daddy librt library, extra care would have to be taken to verify changes don't break anything
07:58.08Ralithat least the benchmark suite is helpful there.
07:59.07brlcadthat's just a minimum, but yeah
08:01.47Raliththere's also plenty to be said for a very well-defined task.
08:03.05brlcadrefactoring tasks are often my favorite to work on
08:03.38brlcadthey're well defined, you usually have an exact work list that you can identify, however long and tedious it may be
08:04.11brlcadi'll have the files in my emacs buffer and can watch the % complete increase as I make progress
08:04.52brlcadbest part is usually the "clean" feeling that usually results
08:04.59Ralithyeah.
08:05.12brlcadand invariably, the code is then easier for others to understand and extend with new functionality
08:05.55brlcadseems to happen every time, gets cleaned up then someone takes it to the next level
08:11.39Ralithreviews the gsoc paperwork
08:27.17RalithI should be able to get my applications in tomorrow.
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15:48.54starseekergapes in awe at the stellarium
15:48.59starseekerscreenshot
15:50.23starseekerAs to the point about it being GPL - that will be true for ALL code (up until QT4.5) using QT.  It was a licensing requirement
15:51.01starseekermany will probably stick with GPL, but it wouldn't hurt (if there is interest) to talk to the authors and see if they would be willing to re-license under LGPL now that they can
15:51.43starseekerif we find a code base that is genuinely interesting in terms of wanting to drop code straight into BRL-CAD, that's certainly a reasonable first step
15:52.06starseekerif they say no, not a big deal - we simply identify the techniques used to achieve the effect and write our own solution
15:53.22starseekerI've never seen QT used in that way before, but seeing that it can be makes my interest in it rise by at least a factor of 2.
16:00.25``Eriknifty app
16:06.43starseekerwooof.  apparently my system isn't up to handling that
16:07.22starseekerchecks website for minimum hardware requirements
16:08.06starseekerhmmmm
16:08.31starseekermy system is much faster than that....
16:08.34starseekerweird
16:08.51``Erikdoing something silly like running linux on it? :D
16:09.17starseekeruh, vice versa actually
16:09.30``Erikmeant the system
16:09.37starseekerheh
16:09.46``Erikenglish sucks for context sensitive statements :D
16:10.26``Erikhopes it has a 'light pollution' slider O.o
16:13.02starseekeryuck:  frames per second = 0.018
16:16.32``Erikfires it up
16:20.12starseekerwonders if his nvidia support didn't get reset or something...
16:22.49``Erikhm, a light pollution selector
16:22.54``Erikacceptable, I suppose
16:24.16starseekeryech.  well, bzflag does it too so it's not stellarium's fault
16:24.24starseekerstarts checking nvidia driver versions
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16:25.49starseekeroh, cute, it's using the software one.  why????
16:25.53starseekeralrightie...
16:26.05``Erik50fps here :)
16:26.11``Erikthat's a pretty nifty app
16:30.20starseekeryep, there we go
16:30.38starseekerin the 40 range here (after fixing acceleration)
16:30.43starseekerthat is cool
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16:32.29``ErikI might stick my head out tonight to look for saturn
16:39.33``Erikwonders why he has to put .cvsignore in his .cvsignore O.o
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17:52.59brlcadstarseeker: it's not a big deal either way, it's really not that hard to design a custom interface (even with or without qt)
17:53.41brlcadwe're talking about days or weeks of time, not months, generally speaking
17:54.35brlcadbut yeah, stellarium is one of several projects that have a really nice custom interface (there are others)
18:21.00starseekerbrlcad:  Indeed.  That's what inclines me more towards QT in fact - since it allows the custom part (and that wouldn't be a big deal, agreed) it gives us for free native look and feel when/if we want it, which is a lot harder and more maintainance headache
18:36.10brlcadnot quite for free, but it does make that option a little bit easier
18:37.43brlcadstarseeker: another really nice 'streamlined' but gorgeous interface to look at is one of the apple opengl source code demo applications
18:40.25brlcadthat's actually more in-line with what I would really like to see for an initial pre-release interface with single main display manaer context with some bindings, text overlays, crisp opengl with various render modes available, and an on-demand command prompt
18:41.03brlcadalas, that demo itself is mac-specific
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18:50.34starseekerbrlcad:  any movies of it?
19:18.55brlcadstarseeker: hm, no
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20:02.09brlcadcontemplates stealing a couple of the bz buttons for menu items
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22:28.08Ralithbrlcad: I find myself still wondering if the benefits of relatively easy native integration are worth the effort necessary to openglify it; blender, for example, seems to get by fine with little to no native integration.
22:28.15Ralith(re: Qt)
22:28.59Ralithalso, do you ever sleep? :P
22:29.59andaxRalith: opengl is not supported by all graphics cards. would there be alternatives?
22:30.19Ralithit's not?
22:31.05andaxi remember i had a Asus AMD64 board with onboard graphics card (Chrome) which had no opengl
22:31.35RalithI would be very surprised if that's the case.
22:31.54Ralithbesides, anybody who expects to use a modern CAD app will need OpenGL one way or another.
22:31.58Ralithit's the industry standard
22:35.13Raliththat said, I believe RBGui + Ogre will allow us to run on DirectX for no extra effort
22:36.24andaxit was a via s3 unichrome pro graphics card. okay, it was a cheap office PC but i remember i had vector graphics even on our first DOS-box with a 8086 CPU and wondered why i need that opengl support from hardware side for practically all 3d applications
22:37.47*** join/#brlcad andax_ (n=andax__@d213-102-40-81.cust.tele2.ch)
22:38.44Ralithbecause OpenGL is the standard.
22:39.04Ralithancient hardware doesn't always implement the standards; this is one of the reasons it has been superseded.
22:39.11kanzureHi all, does anyone know of anything capable of converting a .sldprt file that I have laying around here?
22:40.06Ralithkanzure: from solidworks?  I think you'll have to convert it to something more standard using solidworks as an intermediary first.
22:42.15Ralithandax: you have to admit, "there used to be some hardware that didn't support it" is not a very strong argument.
22:42.21Ralithas it could be applied to anything.
22:42.46kanzureRalith: I don't have solidworks.
22:42.47andax_Ralith: yes, but on the other hand we already had 3d graphics on this acient hardware before anyone talked about opengl. i remember f-18 flight simulation from microprose, for example :)
22:42.56Ralithkanzure: that sounds like a problem.
22:42.57kanzureBlah. I told these guys why they shouldn't use non-free software.
22:43.09kanzurethrows a fit
22:43.16Ralithandax_: usually not hardware accelerated, though.
22:43.25Ralithyou can always use mged.
22:43.37kanzure?
22:43.43kanzureto convert the file?
22:44.04Ralithwas talking to andax_
22:44.06kanzurethe problem is that I have a dot sldprt file, and a dot stl of the file, but the dot stl is wrong- there are some triangle errors and so on that 'netgen' is able to find though not fix
22:44.26kanzuremaybe I'll go pray to the netgen folks for "Dr. STL" to start working
22:45.08kanzurecontext- here's what I've been doing today- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPY84NelFO4
22:49.30Ralithkanzure: meshlab maybe?
22:53.08kanzurehaven't heard of it
22:53.25Ralithit seems to be good at cleaning up that sort of thing
22:56.45kanzurehttp://meshlab.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Compiling
22:56.49kanzurewtf is wrong with these people? :p
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22:58.07Ralith?
22:58.23kanzureguess they've never heard of dependency management and autogen
22:58.54Ralithwhere do you get that idea?
22:59.02Ralithjust because they list the dependencies?
22:59.42kanzurebecause I downloaded it and I have to manually compile all of these sub packages or whatever
23:00.01Ralithor you could just, you know, install them with your package manager.
23:00.02kanzurealso, that's a non-standard way of listing dependencies
23:00.11kanzurenope, they are not available from the package manager
23:00.12Raliththere's a standard way?
23:00.15kanzureI checked before I started ranting :)
23:00.18Raliththat's your distro's fault, then
23:00.19Ralithnot theirs
23:00.31kanzurewell, most distributions have standdard ways of managing dependencies
23:00.33kanzurenot really
23:00.37kanzurethey could have just picked any standard format
23:00.46kanzurefor instance, on debian there is an 'alien' tool to convert between rpm and to deb and such
23:00.51Raliththen they would have been unable to support the others.
23:00.56Ralithand that's a binary release, not source.
23:01.18kanzurerecalls obtaining source packages through package managers
23:01.22Raliththey're not responsible for making their tools available in your repository of source
23:01.26Ralither
23:01.27Ralithof choice
23:01.38Raliththat's up to whoever manages the repository
23:01.39kanzureI guess they could make it completely unavailable
23:01.52Ralithif you don't like it, ask whoever manages the repository to include it
23:01.59brlcad2yeah, same here
23:02.04kanzurestill, lack of a make file..
23:02.17Ralithnothing big comes with makefiles
23:02.22Ralithqmake is a build system that generates makefiles.
23:02.29Ralithjust like autotools, cmake, etc
23:02.31kanzureso is autogen, like I mentioned :)
23:02.32kanzureyeah
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23:02.43Raliththere's nothing wrong with using something other than autotools
23:02.54kanzurethere's something wrong with using nothing.
23:02.58Raliththey're using qmake
23:03.01Ralithqmake != nothing
23:03.06kanzurewtf? /me checks the directory again
23:03.30Ralithbrlcad: did you get my earlier comment?
23:03.32kanzurehow can you tell?
23:03.38Ralithkanzure: because it says so in the wiki page you linked.
23:03.39kanzureah, there's a make file at least
23:05.33kanzureokay, nevermind, you're right.
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23:36.32starseeker_hmm - is bz having trouble?
23:36.58starseeker_can't ssh in
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090329

00:09.24*** join/#brlcad ``Erik_ (n=erik@ftp.brlcad.org)
00:09.32``Erik_points and laughs at starseeker some
00:09.38``Erik_points and laughs at starseeker some/part
00:09.47*** part/#brlcad ``Erik_ (n=erik@ftp.brlcad.org)
00:09.58``Erikwoops, accidently tapped the up arrow
00:11.28``Erikit does seem to be dropping packets, though
00:12.00``Erikor, rather, a router close to it is dropping packets :/
00:12.39brlcadyeah, there's some networking problem
00:12.46brlcad50-90% packet loss
00:12.47``Erikwith "pnap"
00:12.56brlcadbeen going since about 18:36 EDT
00:13.26brlcadseems to be a main sago router, main website doesn't come up nor various routers will ping without loss
00:14.13``Eriktraceroute indicates sago's uplink provider (pnap) is having issues between their backbone and sagos drop
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00:26.14Ralithbrlcad: ping?
00:32.13brlcadRalith: pong?
00:37.13Raliththere we are.
00:37.47Ralithwas '16:02:36 < brlcad> yeah, same here' a reply to my comment on Qt?
00:38.59brlcadis painfully dealing with the network woes at the moment, apologies on delay
00:39.10Ralithno worries
00:40.18brlcadthe "yeah, same here" comment was due to the networking problems.. went to the wrong channel
00:40.23Ralithahh.
00:40.46brlcadI type and then it shows up anywhere from 1 to 60 seconds later
00:41.02Raliththat would be very frustrating.
00:41.15Ralithso, bad time to discuss UI toolkits further I guess :P
00:43.36brlcadis reading the backlog
00:44.15brlcadah, I see now -- your comment
00:44.35brlcadI wouldn't pick qt for native integration capability, just a side comment I think
00:44.55brlcadit's more the other things (widget-wise) that qt or rbgui or whatever provide
00:45.13brlcadand no, I try not to sleep
00:45.18brlcada piece of you dies every time you sleep!
00:45.20Ralithlol
00:46.10Ralithlooks over Qt's widget offerings
00:46.11brlcadkanzure, you see the gsoc list of converters that folks could work on? :)
00:46.22brlcadI suspect that will answer your question about sldprt files
00:46.43kanzureheh
00:46.50kanzurethat did turn up in my search results a few hours ago actually
00:46.53kanzure(the wiki page in particular)
00:47.06brlcadwe show up on a lot of search results..
00:47.35brlcadI often go hunting for something only to find a brl-cad page in the top list of results (or the top result) ... dammit! ;)
00:47.39brlcadif we had it, I wouldn't be loking :)
00:48.03brlcadwe're just often apparently a main source for even discussing some matters
00:48.16RalithBRL-CAD is extremely unique
00:48.19Raliththat has that result.
00:49.12brlcadactually I think it happened just yesterday when we were talking about guis and I went to search for that screenshot I was looking for
00:49.35brlcadtop result was that wiki discussion page about gui options
00:50.05brlcadah, the rbgui avi
00:50.38brlcadnay a link on rightbraingames, but our wiki sure came up
00:50.56brlcaddmaybeprobably just the way I phrased it
00:51.19Ralithhelps that rightbraingames has barely a web presence
00:51.29Ralithand that you wrote most of the relevant wiki pages.
00:52.18``Erikheh, I was looking for something about some archaic computer a few days ago and ended up at http://ftp.brl.mil O.o
00:53.23Ralithhmm, Qt's docs look really good.
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01:11.42Ralithin fact it looks pretty fun to dev for
01:34.51``Erikthe before, in the long long ago, I used qt due to the awesome docs and tutorials, but ended up switching to gtk+ because of the repaint on resize issue (as well as the painful compile times of c++ on a 120mhz cpu with 48m ram)
01:34.51``Erikthe before time, rather
01:34.53Raliththat's quite the before time.
01:35.07RalithQt still has painful compile times, but that shouldn't be a real issue
01:35.22Ralithsince even devs will need to compile it at most once, barring upgrades
01:41.01``Erikum, I meant compiling the programs that use qt :)
01:41.09Ralithah.
01:41.18Ralithhopefully that isn't too bad.
01:41.27*** part/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-76-57.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
01:42.26``Erikhm, I'm under the impression that the BRL-CAD compile is disproportionately dominated by OpenNURBS (the only significant chunk of c++, iirc) :/
01:43.06Raliththe BRL-CAD compile isn't that bad.
01:43.25``ErikI know on this machine I'm running a portmanager on right now, c++ ports grind the machine down to a halt, and beat on swap a lot :(
01:43.26Ralithg3d should be a significantly smaller codebase, depiste C++ness
01:43.40``Erikgtk+ compiles faster than cmake heh :(
01:43.46Ralith:P
01:44.11``Erikpheer my 650mhz p3 with 128m ram! PHEER IT!
01:44.36Ralithlol
02:04.00Ralithbrlcad: discovery! Qt appears to ship with support for drawing to OpenGL!
02:04.01Ralith:D
02:07.32Ralithbrb
02:28.15Ralithreturns
02:42.27brlcad``Erik: openNURBS did increase the compile time by approximately 50-150% depending on plat, compiler, and memory
02:43.28brlcadand increased overall code size by about 20% with about 200k of sources
02:43.47brlcadc++ just compiles a whole lot slower than c
02:44.48brlcadRalith: I know -- it wouldn't be very useful or interesting toolkit without an opengl widget :)
02:44.54Ralithnonono
02:45.05Ralithdrawing to OpenGL a la stellarium
02:45.13Raliththat's not a custom hackjob there
02:45.21Ralithsee: http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2008/06/27/accelerate-your-widgets-with-opengl/
02:45.37RalithI grabbed and build the code; runs great, looks simple to duplicate
02:46.27brlcadah, yeah, that too
02:48.30brlcadthat's not quite what stellarium is doing iirc, but akin to Glitz
02:49.24Ralithwhat's stellarium doing, then?
02:49.32Raliththis seems to be what we need.
02:50.41brlcadiirc, they're inheriting off of the various qt widget classes and overriding the drawing routine
02:51.09brlcadinstead just drawing an alpha-channeled image for many of those items
02:52.16brlcadthe image drawing is still done through qt, though, so it has the option to use ogl acceleration to blit the image as texture quads on the backend
02:52.26brlcad*textured
02:53.02Ralithin the example I linked, if I'm reading it correctly, it's basically just saying "Here's my GUI; render it with OpenGL, please."
02:53.12Ralithand then overriding the background to draw the 3D stuff through normal OpenGL calls.
02:54.20Ralithof course, there'd be a bit more work in our case since there's the need to hook everything up to Ogre instead of pure OpenGL
02:54.52brlcadactually I think it'll work easier the other way around
02:55.04Ralithother way around?
02:55.27brlcadsetting up the window/view/context(s) with qt and then initializing ogre at a lower level to use that context
02:55.52Ralithah, you're probably right
02:56.20brlcadinstead of starting up with ogre and finding a way to initialize qt to use it
02:56.42RalithI think there's even some example code of putting Ogre inside Qt that could be leveraged
02:56.52Ralithsince it's basically the same mechanisms
02:56.57brlcadyep
02:58.37Ralithsounds like a plan.
03:03.09brlcad"The network issue has been resolved.  There was a major DDoS attack that flooded Sago's bandwidth. The IPs that were being attacked have been null routed which stopped the DDoS attack."
03:03.23Ralithyay!
03:31.25Ralithbrlcad: where does submitting a formal gsoc application fit in to the participation checklist?
03:32.23Ralithit's suggested elsewhere that commit access should be obtained beforehand, but that's the last item on said list, which also includes references to mentor discussions and design docs and such, which seems inconsistent.
03:35.54Ralithto put it more simply, I'm wondering what I should get done before sending in my app; for example, should I update the OpenGL GUI page with documentation of what we've discussed?
03:35.55brlcadRalith: the participation checklist is for those already applied and selected, sort of a to-do list after the fact
03:36.00Ralithahh.
03:36.24brlcadthe getting started section at http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code is the first steps
03:36.39Ralithbecause it contains many items that are elsewhere emphasized as things to do beforehand.
03:36.46brlcadyeah, it overlaps
03:39.22brlcadindependent lists each with items not on the other .. should probably combine them into one, one list with two sections perhaps
03:40.19brlcade.g., first one says to interact on #brlcad , the other is specific to introduce yourself (and your project)
03:40.23brlcadif you hadn't already
03:40.46Ralithkk
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04:21.53Ralithbrlcad: is scripting language support a responsibility of the editor, or something to be provided by an external library?
05:44.50starseekerArrrgh - I wish I wasn't broke... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=250395300975
05:46.39starseekeroh well, no storage anyway
05:49.23Ralithnow that would be cool to model.
05:49.54Ralithwe should build up a bunch of neat blueprints like that and suggest people model them for future SoCs :D
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07:24.33yukonbobhello, cadheads (from Las Vegas!)
07:25.45Ralithhello, yukonbobhead!
07:25.50Ralithwhat're you up to down there?
07:28.45yukonbobRalith: hi
07:29.49yukonbobRalith: visiting wife + kid...  I'm working in Vancouver, she's working in Alberta (with baby), and believe it or not, this was convenient.
07:30.18yukonbob(she' was presenting paper earlier this week in Vegas; she's a cultural anthropologist)
07:30.25Raliththat doesn't sound like much fun :/
07:30.34Ralith(the vancouver/alberta thing, not the paper thing)
07:30.36yukonbobRalith: no fun at all...
07:30.48yukonbobRalith: looking forward to the end of this situation
08:44.25Ralithbrlcad: you there?
08:44.29brlcadyep
08:44.59Ralithhow does 'stubbing' functionality by backing it with libged sound?
08:45.23Ralithwill the interfaces be similar enough for it to be easily converted to the geometry service?
08:45.50brlcadscripting support is going to be handled by the front-end, but probably a plugin facility in the geometry service's domain
08:46.11brlcador a layer in-between
08:46.49brlcadthat sounds good -- that's sort of what mafm's work to date did
08:47.09RalithI wasn't aware that mafm's work to date did much talking to BRL-CAD at all.
08:47.59Ralithre: scripting, that leaves me a little unclear
08:48.25Ralithg3d is expected to implement scripting in the short term, but eventually it will be separated out?
08:49.32brlcadyeah, it already uses libged to open a .g geometry file, display geometry, undisplay, etc
08:50.49Ralithah.
08:50.51brlcadbasically, most things will have to be handled by the application in the short term and/or worked with the other bigger projects as they come to fruition
08:51.08Ralithkk
08:51.29Ralithsounds like a standalone scripting system would make yet another good soc project
08:51.34Ralithwell
08:51.36Ralithmaybe not
08:51.43Ralithas it'd have a pretty ill defined interface for the time being, I think
08:52.15brlcadexample, when this is done, an application wouldn't need (or want) to have to maintain ged structures -- that would happen by the service automatically
08:53.08brlcadthe goal is for the client to be a thin-client, minimum functionality with most of the logic happening on an application-backend through a plugin-architecture
08:53.32brlcadnotes that this is better explained with pictures, but maybe you get the gist
08:54.10RalithI think I do, especially since it's a very clean way to do things.
08:54.12Ralithvery unixy.
08:54.32Ralithwhich is something increasingly (and worryingly) rare among large-scale projects.
08:54.50brlcadthat's why, though, I was mentioning yesterday that the goal shouldn't be so much to focus on how it interacts with geometry, libged, librt, geometry engine, geometry service, et al, but to work on the gui itself and getting that framework set up (polished, clean look and feel, etc)
08:55.00Ralithyeah
08:55.02Raliththat makes perfect sense
08:55.16Ralithno point spending devtime on something that'll be deprecated in short order, and was never really good practice to start with.
08:55.51brlcada little less exciting perhaps, but it's the only known step without -- as you note -- working on a backend feature like a scripting module in the geometry service
08:55.59brlcadwhich would be cool, but yeah -- another project in itself
08:56.38brlcadright, the measures g3d already goes to for opening a .g is arguably already "too much", but it is nice to at least be able to see some geometry :)
08:56.50RalithI dunno, there's a *lot* of awesome-factor in building a script-independent scripting system as you've described.
08:56.52brlcadand libged does make that really easy
08:57.50RalithI figure having enough of a backend to enable meaningful tests of usability is important.
08:58.06Ralithit's hard to study how practical something is to complete a task if you can't actually complete the task.
08:59.07Ralithby the way, is the BREP stuff still not very far along?  I'm wondering how far we are from easy tesselation of arbitrary geometry.
08:59.22Ralith'cuz that could ad major shiny-points to a demo.
08:59.32brlcadthere has been some progress, but nothing you could rely on for gsoc
09:00.17brlcadstill, even if it could do wireframe, or shaded display of unevaluated CSG, that much is all doable now
09:00.41Ralithgood point
09:00.58Ralithunevaluated is plenty for some nice looking demos.
09:01.26brlcadand for mesh models, they'll look the same
09:01.36brlcadno booleans
09:01.50Ralithwell, mesh models isn't really what we're here for
09:02.07Raliththough that would work well for pretty pictures.
09:03.13brlcadyep
09:07.11brlcadas for the scripting separation, if you think of the application having a front-end and a back-end, where the front is the gui (or the V in an MVC separation) and the back contains modular functionality in plugins
09:07.51brlcadone of the back modules is a command shell, that effectively provides a terminal service
09:08.48brlcadwithin that terminal service, you're basically running a command shell (e.g., tclsh, bash, python that (for now) hooks through those environments to libged)
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09:10.09brlcadthat command layer itself would be a nice contained project in itself because it's easy enough to whip up an application testing harness that provides a command prompt and lets you switch between different scripting languages on the fly
09:10.37Ralithhm
09:10.52Ralithso [GUI actions trigger] commands trigger editing actions?
09:11.11brlcadexplain?
09:12.00RalithI'm having trouble seeing how the command line could be a plugin without duplication of the editing bindings between the GUI and the scripting system.
09:12.15Ralithunless the GUI is a wrapper of the command line
09:12.48Ralithwhich could work, assuming multiple shells can be used, and has some neat side effects like being able to easily show a command for every gui action.
09:13.25brlcadthe latter -- every action in the system can be defined as a series of scriptable non-modal command actions
09:13.44brlcadthat's actually how the geometry service is presently organized
09:13.59Ralithokay
09:14.10Ralithso multiple shells can be used in parallel then?
09:14.14Ralithcould be confusing.
09:14.15brlcadabsolutely
09:14.33brlcadthat'd be up to the app to limit is possible
09:14.52Ralithoo, I know
09:14.54brlcadpresent an actual terminal window, for example
09:14.56Ralithcommand prompt.
09:15.02Ralithshell-specific prompt.
09:15.06brlcadright
09:15.08Raliththat would disambiguate nicely
09:15.17Ralithalso minimize confusion when using someone else's workstation
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09:15.33brlcadthat's what I was saying about running a command shell (within a terminal service)
09:15.51Ralithhm?
09:15.56brlcadterminal is basically a given console, in that console, you'd only be running one shell at a time
09:16.10brlcadbut could certainly switch shells if you wanted
09:16.23brlcadjust like a unix command terminal/console
09:16.42RalithI was imagining the situation in which the g3d user is running an arbitrary shell
09:16.49Raliththe GUI would have to use its own console
09:17.11Ralithwhich prevents awesome stuff like sharing command history between GUI actions and manually entered commands
09:17.17brlcadwouldn't exactly be arbitrary as we'd have to make it work for each shell we want to support
09:17.31Ralitharbitrary in the sense that it might not be the one the GUI's using.
09:17.39brlcadthey would have a shared command history, though
09:17.46Ralithhow do you do that across different shells?
09:17.52brlcadthat's where everything is eventually going to filter through the geometry service
09:17.56Ralithdifferent syntaxes.
09:18.08Ralithyou'd have to have some sort of action -> shell command convertor
09:18.14brlcadthat's actually where commands will be handled -- just right now, that's in libged
09:18.56Ralithand you'd need to go from GUI shell -> abstract action -> user shell just to generate the history entry.
09:19.04Ralithor am I misunderstanding?
09:19.43brlcadmore like "gui action -> gs command(s) -> ged command(s)" and "terminal command -> gs command -> ged command"
09:20.15Ralithah.
09:20.23RalithI was referring to command history in the shell context.
09:20.41Raliththis would be a valuable learning tool, because it'd show you how to do everything you depend on the GUI for by hand.
09:21.16Ralithnot critical to a functional interface, sure, but I bet it would drastically increase the use of the more advanced capabilities granted by scripting.
09:21.30brlcadah yeah .. making the terminal show history for gui actions would just be confusing I think -- I see that happening as more of a command transcript
09:22.03brlcadwhere you could ask the gs for a history transcript, and you'll see combined gui and/or console commands
09:22.20Ralithyeah, I follow
09:22.44RalithI just really like the idea of showing users how to do things a more efficient way.
09:23.09brlcadmost of the gui actions are asynchronous, most of the console are synchronous (at least by default)
09:23.11Raliththere won't be nearly as much use of the command line if you have to dig into documentation to use it.
09:24.02Ralithbut I suppose my point this whole time is that a good design makes that impractical.
09:24.28brlcadmakes what impractical?
09:25.24Ralithmapping GUI actions onto shell commands
09:25.47brlcadah, yeah
09:26.06brlcadI mean you could -- gs commands will map pretty much 1-1 with shell commands
09:26.32Ralithbut would it be practical to go from gs command to shell command?
09:26.33brlcadthat's why you'll be able to pull up an editing history regardless of actions being performed through the gui or via command-line
09:26.43Ralithand beyond that, there's higher level stuff that could be mapped but would do so really badly
09:26.49Ralithe.g. complex chains of actions
09:27.10Raliththings that would take significant amounts of script to produce
09:27.14brlcadyeah -- many gui actions will translate to multiple commands, even a single "click"
09:27.58brlcadwhich could later be abstracted out into a single meta-command possibly, but there will always be something even more "meta" possible
09:28.04Ralithyup.
09:28.15Ralithwhich, I suppose, dooms the whole idea, irrespective of implementation details.
09:29.51brlcadif you recall the command prompt in the IOE demo, that's basically a single command that would feed/translate directly to the gs as a gs command and map 1-1 with a ged command
09:30.10brlcadand be an "action" that is scripting agnostic, raw command
09:30.14Ralithyeah
09:30.33Ralithbut a proper implementation should allow full expressions, be they oneliners, in that context imo
09:30.45Ralithwhich includes things like loops which map onto many gs commands.
09:31.08brlcadnot for the on-demand command prompt -- there is no interpreter
09:31.16Ralithoh?
09:31.29Ralithare you sure that's a good idea?
09:31.56Ralithyou'd need to define a human-readable (and succinct enough to be enterable) syntax for gs commands
09:32.03Ralithand it'd detract from the power significantly.
09:32.19brlcadthere is *still* a command console
09:32.31brlcadi'm referring to the on-demand command prompt
09:32.38brlcadwhich is separate from the console prompt
09:32.53RalithI had thought that would just be a convenient method of accessing it.
09:34.00brlcadit's possible that the on-demand prompt could allow some form of one-liner scripting, but would not want to complicate it's simple expressivity for things that the command console will handle already
09:35.07Raliththe command console can handle simple 1:1 commands too, though
09:35.19Ralithso I don't see how such a shell is out of place in the on-demand prompt.
09:35.29Ralithor, wait
09:35.33brlcadyes it's 1-1, but it does it within a shell
09:35.38Raliththe prompt is focused on UI actions?
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09:35.44brlcadand you can switch shells
09:35.50Ralithrather than the shell being focused on editing actions?
09:36.09brlcadnot sure I understand your question
09:36.36Ralithe.g. you'd use the prompt to save a file to local disk, and the shell to create a region.
09:37.29Ralithin the IOE demo the shell was for performing environment and overarching UI related actions, rather than directly controlling the programs.
09:37.40Ralither
09:37.43Raliththe on demand prompt
09:40.34brlcadthere was no shell in the IEO demo, just that on-demand command prompt -- but yeah, that on-demand could potentially allow environment/ui actions or lower-level commands
09:40.59brlcadthose can happen on a terminal console as well, though, as it's all going through the same system
09:41.24brlcadI don't see much of the gui being inaccessible from the command prompt
09:42.18Raliththen I'm kind of confused as to why we need to introduce an entirely new syntax to what could just be another interface to the shell.
09:42.32brlcadbe able to be in either and affect the other, or at least introspect the other as the "model" is still being managed by the backend gs state and both the command prompt and gui just reflect that state
09:42.52brlcadwhat OS do you use?
09:42.59Ralith*nixes in general
09:43.02RalithLinux at the moment
09:43.15Raliththough I do find myself at windows often.
09:44.40brlcadthat on-demand prompt is inspired by and modeled after application launchers
09:45.08brlcadakin to "quicksilver" on a mac if you've ever used that
09:45.10Ralithmy ideal application launcher is a quick-loading one-line terminal.
09:45.14RalithI haven't.
09:45.49brlcadI believe "Launchy" is sort of similar (just not nearly as awesome as quicksilver) for linux and windows
09:45.58Ralithhaven't used that either >_>
09:45.58brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quicksilver_(software)
09:46.02RalithI keep my UI simple.
09:46.12brlcadahh, here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_application_launchers
09:46.13Ralithrunning xmonad, a minimalist tiling window manager, at the moment.
09:46.18brlcadnods
09:46.36Ralithwindow management in the IOE reminded me of it.
09:47.35brlcadbasically it's a way to "DO THIS" on-demand when you don't have an interactive command prompt available, accessed via a quick hot-key like alt+space
09:47.43RalithI follow
09:47.54Ralithbut I don't see how that's not offered by a shell.
09:48.04brlcadit is offered by the shell
09:48.20brlcadbut the shell is something persistent or something you launch, stays around, uses screen real-estate, etc
09:48.24Raliththen why go to the effort of specifying an entirely new syntax?
09:48.34Ralithshell in the sense of the actual interpreter
09:48.45Ralithnot the terminal that's displayed
09:49.12Ralithit seems like this would add a significant amount to what you'd have to learn for relatively little benefit.
09:49.31Ralithwhich infringes on the critical usability factor.
09:49.48Ralithsince it is, in effect, an entirely new 'language'
09:49.54brlcadcould just be a terminology mismatch, shell to me means 'command shell' in a traditional sense like bash/tcsh/tclsh, those are shells -- entire interpreter environments
09:50.13Raliththat's what I mean
09:50.27Raliththe entry box wouldn't be persistent, but the interpreter can be.
09:50.37brlcadthere is no new language, it basically is the common subset of all shell interpreters
09:50.40Ralithwhich is nice, because it allows for continuous state
09:50.50Ralithhow do you do that when they have such varied syntax?
09:50.52brlcadthe interpreters without their scripting harness -- the command portion
09:51.28Ralithyou'd have to limit supported interpreters to those with identical function call syntax, or something.
09:51.38RalithI can't see that working at all; I must be missing something
09:52.12brlcadnot sure what syntax you're referring to that would be different.. there is no syntax to learn other than the commands themselves, which are mostly verb+noun or noun+verb
09:52.36Ralithnot so in python, afaik
09:52.39Raliththat's much more C like.
09:53.04Ralithit's largely a coincidence that the popular shells that consist of most of your examples tend to offer similar command syntax.
09:53.29Ralithand even for them things like setting variables differ, although that may be outside of the scope you describe.
09:53.38brlcadit's really hard to explain given you've not used any of those application launchers :)
09:53.47Raliththese application launchers all use their own language.
09:53.51Ralithit's a very simple one, yes
09:53.56Ralithbut it's still something you have to learn
09:53.56brlcadyes, there is no state, no variables, no scripting. just a "do this"
09:54.05Ralithso it's another language.
09:54.18brlcadnot really
09:54.32Ralithand thus another barrier to optimal usability--although I suppose that's limited, since the actions would be replicated in the other two environments..
09:55.06Ralithwell, I imagine shell syntax for something is usually going to be very different from prompt syntax for it.
09:55.17Ralithjust as the GUI way of doing something would be.
09:56.01Ralithit may be a very simple language, and even a very intuitive one, but it's still something clearly differentiated from a shell.
09:56.34brlcadback to the original example where a single gui action would translate to one or more 'gs commands', the on-demand prompt is basically a 1-1 to a gs command as well
09:56.35Ralithbut I'm realising now that that's not such a disadvantage, given that its use is entirely optional.
09:57.04Ralithand that new users won't be depending on a GUI element they've never encountered before.
09:57.38Ralithyou've still got to define the language, simple as it may be.
09:57.52brlcadI still don't get where you're getting language from
09:58.01brlcadthere is no logic/syntax other than "command + args"
09:58.10brlcadthere are no variables, no conditionals
09:58.17brlcadto logical constructs
09:58.20brlcads/to/no/
09:58.26Ralithokay.
09:58.35Ralithyou've still got to define a set of these commands.
09:58.40brlcad"draw object"
09:58.49RalithI guess that wouldn't be that much more work than binding a new scripting language at that point, though
09:58.51brlcadabsolutely, that we're doing implicitly with libged
09:58.57Ralithhuh?
09:59.12brlcadthat defines a set of understood geometry editing commands in a "command+args" structure
09:59.21Ralithah.
09:59.34Ralithand it'd be a simple matter to map literal commands onto that.
09:59.49brlcadexample literal command?
09:59.58Ralithdraw object
10:00.07Ralith(as opposed to the actual ged library call)
10:01.04brlcadthat might be the missing link -- ged library calls are intentionally a collection of commands as functions
10:01.20Ralithwhich is why it's a simple matter.
10:01.24brlcadpretty every mged command now corresponds to a libged function
10:01.28brlcada single function
10:01.37brlcadged_[command]()
10:02.32brlcadso you say "draw object", that basically calls ged_draw(argc=2, argv={"draw", "object"});
10:02.41brlcadplus a ged state structure
10:03.07brlcadso it knows in what context to invoke that command
10:04.03brlcadso we are defining commands, sets of commands, and arguments, but the intent is that those remain modular modeless actions
10:04.29brlcada gui action may translate to 100 ged_*() commands through the geometry service
10:05.20brlcadthe command terminal will allow scripting in an environment, provide variables and logical structures, and basically map commands directly to their ged_* counterparts
10:05.38Ralithor as closely as permitted by the shell.
10:05.40brlcadan on-demand command basically maps directly to one ged_* command
10:06.01brlcadexample?
10:07.04brlcadall command shells I know of boil down (or can be boiled down) fundamentally to command+args
10:08.11Ralithwell, python isn't a command shell in the traditional sense, for example
10:09.14brlcadespecially all interactive prompts like bash/tclsh but even non-interactives like python/lisp/perl translate
10:10.18RalithI mean, the syntax will differ between calling a python function and executing a bash command.
10:11.16brlcadoh yeah, syntax will definitely differ -- that "translation" is what I was referring to earlier about having to take efforts to hook in a new scripting interface
10:13.24brlcadfor an object-based language like python, a really simple way to avoid most of the issues is to make a "ged object" that then becomes your object that takes "command+args" parameters
10:14.00brlcadat least one of several ways it could be handled
10:14.56brlcadthere the difference is mostly noun+verb's instead of usual verb+noun's style you find elsewhere
10:15.25brlcadthat's where something like swig should hopefully make life a little easier since we just define the functions/commands and then swig does the mappings to various languages for us
10:15.39Ralithyeah.
10:18.37brlcadi guess the original point about the on-demand command prompt, though, was simply that it would effectively be like the mged command prompt without the tcl scripting capability -- syntax is identical and basically becomes a way to run a single command very quickly (and transiently)
10:19.16brlcadnot strictly necessary, more of a power-user function at that, but much less intrusive than a terminal (and generally *much* faster/efficient too)
10:23.26Ralithyeah, I follow
10:23.26Ralithmakes sense now.
10:23.50RalithIt might be worth considering offering a similar functionality that pipes into the shell, too, though
10:24.06Ralithsimply because it'd be handy to be able to access the shell interface from anywhere with a minimum of effort.
10:24.19Ralithor so I imagine
10:24.23brlcadI'd hope a hot-key that pops up the terminal?
10:24.46brlcadI'd like an on-demand *terminal* as well, one that you can hide/unhide, but that is always available
10:25.10brlcadideally overlayed on the display
10:25.17brlcadlike command overlays for most games
10:27.08Raliththat provides that pretty well, then.
10:33.30Ralithbrlcad: submitting my first draft proposal now.
10:33.35brlcadcool
10:34.36RalithI went on for a while about it, and made an effort to provide the relevant background, so I hope it isn't overly verbose.
10:35.17Ralithquite open to suggestions for changes.
10:40.08Ralithin fact, please do let me know if you have any input.
10:41.13Ralithtomorrow I'll see if I can write another one up for the de-TCLification of the std libs, but I think it's late enough tonight,.
10:53.18brlcadalright cool
10:55.40Raliththanks for the discussion
11:01.50brlcadlikewise
11:02.32brlcadgood to get some of this stuff out of my head, and to bounce old/new ideas off of others
11:03.10brlcadI really need to upload all of the design and docs that have gone into things to date (along with a ton of other BRL-CAD things that would be cool to upload)
11:07.01Ralithlike what?
11:09.17brlcadhard to categorize, it's a lot of stuff
11:10.26brlcadrenderings/images, technical papers, design documents, tutorials, various data sets, geometry models, ..
11:10.37Ralithsounds neat
11:10.52Ralithany reason not to just throw it up somewhere and work it out from there?
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11:18.12brlcadyeah, some of it would be very misleading, some of it is not republishable as-is, some of it is almost entirely useless, it needs at least a pass through
11:18.59brlcadlike in my gui research, there are dozens of shots and mockups of an LCARS interface (from star trek)
11:19.24brlcadwas just for kicks many years ago while thinking through some ideas and wouldn't really be useful for anything
11:19.39Ralithah, misleading would be a problem.
11:19.43brlcadmore distraction and FUD factors of having too much junk
11:19.55Ralithmakes sense
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17:58.37brlcadstarseeker: coil command needs a manual page to be in src/shapes
18:00.42CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34101 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: annotate the 7.14.4 release with emphasis on the gqa enhancements in mged and the new coil shape tool
18:02.09CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34102 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: there is a coil tool now, but needs a manual page
18:29.59starseekerbrlcad:  ok
18:31.13starseekerbrlcad:  um.  there's a coil.xml file that should be creating a coil man page
18:35.23starseekerum - is anyone else not able to svn co the brlcad tree?
18:37.11madantupdate working for me :)
18:40.13starseekergrowl
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19:30.43brlcadstarseeker: ah! okay
19:31.15brlcadjust noticed all the .1's in src/shapes and it seemingly missing for that one
19:31.26brlcadside effect of having a separate doc dir
19:32.39CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34103 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: coil has a manual page, just in doc/docbook give it's new-style
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22:21.27brlcadwaves to pacman87, wb
22:21.35starseekerarrrrrrgh
22:21.44starseekerwhy can't I connect to the sf server??
22:21.55starseekerupgraded to 1.6.0 even
22:22.05pacman87waves back
22:22.58brlcadstarseeker: sf doesn't like you
22:23.38starseekerapparently
22:23.44starseekersvn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
22:23.48starseekersvn: OPTIONS of 'https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk': could not connect to server (https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net)
22:24.28brlcadworks here
22:25.53starseekerok, it's some sort of general failure
22:27.19starseekerchecks how subversion was built
22:38.17``Erikhrm, issues connecting to bz, issues connecting to sf, ... hrmmmm
22:39.14``Erikthough I do vagually recall seeing 'OPTIONS' related errors connecting to an svn server being due to a proxy that doesn't pass the 4 or so extensions
22:40.21brlcadah, good point -- starseeker, they changed some of the http/webdav negotiation in 1.6.0 .. supposedly to require much fewer connections and speed everything up
22:40.30brlcadmight have introduced a bug for some network/sever configurations
22:48.47starseekerbrlcad:  more likely I did something to my system in that last upgrade
22:51.41starseekergrits his teeth and runs revdep-rebuild
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23:17.17starseekeroh, cute:  http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=263497
23:20.32starseekernow I get to upgrade the friggin kernel
23:21.48brlcadheh
23:22.07brlcador downgrade glibc ;)
23:22.39brlcadi'm sure you could manually hack the build to make it work, it's just that socket() call getting a bad enum value
23:22.51starseekeroh, sure
23:23.08starseekerbut if I'm going to start getting grief for running an old kernel, might as well update it now
23:24.49brlcadseems pretty obscure, specific to a networking code that is already using updated glibc interface with a specific socket option
23:25.19starseekerhopes we won't see this sort of grief if/when we use subversion in the geometry server
23:25.56brlcadcurious, which enum(s) is 0x80001 ?
23:26.18brlcad(look in /usr/include/sys/socket.h)
23:27.40brlcadmight be easier to look at svn's sources and find that select() call
23:28.10brlcader, s/select/socket/
23:28.36``Erikhugs bsd for providing a unified cohesive system with some great release engineering :D
23:29.49starseekerdon't see 0x80001 in that file
23:29.57starseekeropps
23:30.03starseekerhas to vacuum now
23:30.33``ErikI'd guess that's a combination of flags
23:30.42``Erikor'd together
23:33.36brlcadlooks like the neon library is actually the one to blame with the socket() call
23:35.21brlcadaha, found it
23:35.28brlcadthey're using SOCK_CLOEXEC, new flag
23:35.39brlcadinstead of just SOCK_STREAM
23:39.14brlcadah, which is the high 0x80000 bit, so if it was just 0x1, it'd work just fine
23:39.34brlcadreturns to coding, content
23:40.23``Erikcoding, not migrating machines? :D *duck*
23:47.15brlcadabsolutely, this is a coding weekend
23:47.24brlcadplanned
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090330

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090330

00:08.16``Erikheh
00:08.38``Erikup's the new machine again
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02:16.14starseekerah, there we go
02:16.23starseekerbuilds
02:17.14brlcadstarseeker: in case you're interested, there is a gsoc mailing list if i didn't mention it before
02:17.21brlcadone specifically for mentors, the other for everyone
02:17.45brlcadyou don't have to join, as I relay the important action-required info, but if you're interested
02:19.08starseekerbrlcad:  Ah, ok - thanks :-)
02:19.13starseekerpulls up gsoc page
02:19.58brlcadthe one with everyone can get absurdly noisy as there are about 7000 members
02:20.09brlcadand even the mentor one from time to time (1000 or so members)
02:20.45brlcadbut the mentor one is particularly insightful at times, as it's a buffet of open source devs talking about interesting matters
02:21.11brlcadwishes he could easily excavate the dirt between his two basements
02:21.44starseekerhire an army of moles ;-)
02:22.56brlcadI thought about that actually
02:23.02brlcadwell not moles, but kids
02:23.26brlcadminimum wage manual labor ftw
02:23.40kanzuregah, trying to get gmsh compile with OCC support, it turns out OCC src is distributed with config.h in the wrong place
02:25.16kanzurebrlcad: where is that mailing list? is this it? http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-mentors-list
02:26.16brlcadyes
02:27.11starseekerputs in request to be added
02:27.56kanzuredon't know how insightful it can be about open source development if even the archives are subscribers-only
02:28.11brlcadit's private with good reason
02:28.30brlcadmentors that are added are verified so that discussions can be private if they're about specific orgs or people
02:30.18kanzureI see.
02:30.32kanzurewhaa
02:30.33kanzurehttp://geuz.org/pipermail/gmsh/2008/003110.html
02:30.34brlcadkanzure: mostly matters of how organizations are run, how they participate with their communities, some legal matter discussions, suggestions on how to improve a community, etc
02:30.36kanzureisn't that me?
02:30.43kanzurethis is so disappointing
02:30.54brlcadit's not exactly relevant to the open source community at large either, specific to orgs and mentorship for the most part
02:31.15brlcadwith a lot of prominent voices chiming in on what works and doesn't work for them
02:32.05brlcadkanzure: disappointing that you were trying again last year around this time? :)
02:32.17kanzureyes :(
02:32.23brlcadhehe
02:32.53starseekerhah - Battle for Wesnoth is a gsoc project
02:33.11kanzureI think what happens is that I do just enough work to exhaust myself on something only to wait just long enough to forget everything
02:33.25kanzureand then I discover some beautiful post a year later and it seems to have exactly nearly what I'm looking for
02:33.29kanzureand then I find out that it was me.
02:34.05brlcadstarseeker: yep, their second year
02:34.07brlcadI pressed on them to apply last year, helped give advice on putting their org application together
02:34.17starseekerawesome :-)
02:34.29brlcadworked out nicely, they're a great group of folks
02:34.32*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
02:37.40kanzurethere was a Slashdot comment about this recently, something like "isn't it odd that when you search the slashdot archives you sometimes find that one insightful comment from a discussion from a few years ago and when you go to look who wrote it .. it was you?"
02:37.40starseekerhmm - panotools has a "3D extension" idea
02:37.44kanzurebut I've lost it.
02:37.45starseekerwonder if they know how hard that is
02:37.57starseekerkanzure:  yeah, saw that :-)
02:38.18kanzure<-- karma whore.
03:02.12brlcad~kanzure++
03:30.43starseekergrrrrrrr
03:30.53starseekerhas had it with the auto_path annoyance and starts tracking
03:41.24kanzurehuh, anyone know who pacman87 is?
03:42.52*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=500@resnet-46-102.dorm.utexas.edu)
03:42.57kanzurehey pacman87
03:43.16brlcadkanzure, of course
03:43.28pacman87kanzure: hi
03:43.32kanzurehe's probably living a block away from me
03:43.45pacman87who, me?
03:43.50kanzurenods
03:43.51kanzurejester?
03:43.56pacman87blanton
03:44.00kanzurecastilian
03:44.10pacman87ah
03:44.24pacman87you're ME freshman?
03:44.28kanzureyes
03:44.51pacman87what classes are you taking?
03:44.58kanzurenothing interesting
03:45.11pacman87yeah, that was my first sem, too
03:45.30pacman87then i took 18 hours second sem
03:45.44kanzureI did that backwards, but anyway
03:45.53kanzuredidn't know that there was anyone working with brlcad on campus here
03:46.06pacman87i was GSoC last year
03:46.17brlcadand a fantastic gsocer at that
03:46.20pacman87:D
03:46.22kanzurehm
03:46.24brlcadawesome new primitives
03:46.25kanzurewe should probably meet up some time.
03:46.31pacman87added the hyp and started the rev
03:46.39brlcadalmost finished rev
03:46.43kanzuremaybe I'll show you the austin fab lab that I'm helping to throw together
03:48.05starseekerbrlcad:  Ah HA
03:48.30starseekersomething, somewhere on my system, is setting ITCL_LIBRARY and ITK_LIBRARY
03:48.36brlcad"take on me" is a great ah-ha song
03:48.49starseekerlooks like libtclcad is treating that as an explicit override
03:48.56starseekerheh
03:48.57brlcadthat's a sure-fire way to screw up autopathing
03:49.09pacman87anyone want to help me debug an "undefined reference" problem in a .so for something unrelated to brlcad?
03:49.15brlcadthose are supposed to be explicit overrides
03:49.21kanzuresure, why not
03:49.27brlcadtcl_library, tk_library, itcl_library, itk_library
03:49.30starseekershouldn't that be disabled if itcl/itk is specified as the internal copy?
03:49.42brlcadnope
03:49.59brlcadit's an environment var override -- the environment is wrong
03:50.11kanzurethe environment is never wrong :)
03:50.12kanzuresnickers
03:50.14brlcadlike setting ld_library_path and expecting it to find the right libs
03:50.22kanzurestarseeker: what are you working on?
03:50.44pacman87i'm trying to compile the qt4 branch of moto4lin, and it uses p2kmoto (libp2kmoto.so)
03:50.49starseekerarcher won't start on my system, because it's mixing the internal tcl/tk and system itcl/itk
03:50.55brlcadthe entire point of the vars is so that regardless of what it was compiled for, I can at run-time make it use anything
03:51.26pacman87moto4lin builds libp2kqt.so, which is trying to link to symbols defined in libp2kmoto.so
03:52.39brlcadstarseeker: mixing internal tcl/tk with system itcl/itk 'can' work, but depends on the revisions, search paths, and init files it finds
03:53.12brlcadif it finds the 3.2 itcl init files first, it won't load a 3.4 install
03:53.58pacman87"nm /usr/local/lib/libp2kmoto.so" shows the symbols are defined, but "nm libp2kqt.so" says they're undefined
03:54.11pacman87and i don't know how to fix it
03:56.53brlcadpacman87: er, if it's a partially resolved lib, just means you have to provide both libs on the linker line (in order)
03:57.31pacman87and the linker line would be in the Makefile?
03:57.49brlcaddepends how they do their build, but yeah usually
03:58.07brlcadcan always link by hand if need be too
03:59.19pacman87how would i do that?
04:05.06brlcadwell paste a log of it failing
04:05.08starseekerwell, that's closer
04:05.18brlcadthat should show you the compile/linker line
04:05.21starseekerlooks like maybe iwidgets is messing up again...
04:05.37brlcadreally?  haven't seen iwidgets be a problem in years
04:05.46brlcadthere is an iwidgets override too iirc
04:05.58pacman87brlcad: i think i fixed it
04:06.13pacman87i uncommented two lines in the CMakeLists.txt file relating to p2kmoto
04:06.39brlcad:)_
04:06.58pacman87ouch, segfault
04:07.00starseekerhang on, here's the log: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d3e0053b5
04:10.52starseekerwell, setting IWIDGETS_LIBRARY didn't fix it
04:11.35brlcadstarseeker: looks like you're getting a system iwidgets
04:11.45brlcadbob has a modification on exactly that line it's failing on
04:11.52starseekeryeah, not surprsied
04:12.03starseekeris looking to figure out how to point it to local version
04:12.06pacman87it probably doesn't help that moto4lin hasn't been touched in 14 months
04:12.36starseekergentoo must be cluttering up the environment with a bunch of explicit setting of flags or something
04:12.43starseekers/flags/paths
04:12.45brlcadstarseeker: it's tcl, you can update the system iwidgets file directly too
04:12.52brlcadsee if that at least fixes it
04:12.54starseekertrue
04:13.08brlcaddiff your system panedwindow.itk to the one in src/other/iwidgets
04:13.21brlcader, src/other/iwidgets/generic/panedwindow.itk
04:13.37brlcadshould be at least three lines, two commented out with "Bob Modification"
04:14.12brlcadlooks like it's a bug in iwidgets that he fixed
04:14.28starseekeryep, see it
04:15.33brlcadit uses _ret without sanity checking it first, the for loop might be empty if there are no active panes
04:15.46starseekeryeah, that did it
04:15.46brlcadresulting in the error trace you saw
04:16.51brlcadbets ArcherCore.tcl could just wrap that line in a try/catch and it'd also prevent the failure
04:17.19brlcadthat'd be good to try, cause if it worked, then it'd work with vanially iwidgets
04:17.39starseekerI think I saw three separate modifications to that file though
04:17.48starseekerany chance of upstream incorporating it?
04:19.22brlcadtry that
04:19.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34104 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: try catching the error in case we're using a system iwidgets that doesn't have bob's patch for referencing the unitialized _ret var in panedwindow
04:19.36brlcadi'm sure upstream would
04:19.45brlcadthat is the that I was referring to, btw
04:20.17starseekerer, sept 2002 last iwidgets release - nevermind
04:20.29brlcadit's considered "done" iirc
04:20.36starseekerwinces
04:20.43starseekerwe're the only ones who hit that bug?
04:21.50starseekerah
04:22.05starseekerso if it fails it can be safely ignored?
04:22.14starseekerthat's handy
04:23.49brlcadif it fails, there are no active panes yet, so nothing needs to happen
04:24.03brlcad"should" work.. but give it a try
04:24.15brlcadmight be more places it needs catched
04:27.14brlcadwaits to hear the result...
04:33.20starseekerheh - sorry, had stuff to take care of - one sec...
04:34.59starseekeryep, looks like that got it
04:35.03starseekernice :-)
04:37.28brlcadthe iwidgets dev still responds to patches, so would probably be worthwhile to clean up and upload a diff
04:38.28starseekerrebuilds with ogl enabled to properly test archer
04:40.23starseekerbrlcad:  IIRC, we disabled ogl because it was crashing on some platforms?
04:40.38starseekerplus the slow updating with rt?
04:40.55brlcadmore "bad behavior" than crashing
04:41.02starseekerah
04:42.16starseekerwell, I've never debugged ogl but there's always a first time...
04:45.02brlcadslow remote fb updates
04:45.20starseekerI thought that was for everything?
04:45.31starseekerrecalls poking at libpkg but not seeing anything conclusive
04:45.40starseekerwas that ogl specific?
04:46.21brlcadI don't recall, but it was at least remotefb->oglfb with specific sizes being much worse than others
04:46.54brlcadand iirc, wasn't in the libpkg layer, think that came up clean
04:47.13starseekerseemed to be
04:49.45brlcadwas directly in the fbserv or sending side
04:50.04brlcadnot crossing the wire
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05:44.25Ralithogl was crashing on freebsd w/ nvidia drivers, at least for a while
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07:33.18Ralithbrlcad: is the content portion of a GSoC application publicly visible?
07:34.27brlcadRalith: only if the student(s) post their application to the wiki or elsewhere beforehand
07:34.40brlcadthe content becomes visible after students are selected
07:35.24Ralithhuh.  The tooltips suggest that only the abstract is ever published like that.
07:47.49brlcadah, that may be
07:48.18brlcadyeah, was just abstrcat in previous years
07:48.31brlcadthere's a small window to tweak those before they go live usually too
07:53.55Ralithso the content *isn't* ever public?
07:54.03Ralithat least in the past?
07:54.42Ralithde-TCLification application submitted.
07:58.17Ralithbrb
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08:02.27Ralithlooking forward to any/all feedback.
08:04.45madantRalith: I think google's concern is with privacy issues and all :D
08:05.32Ralithmadant: well, I don't think I have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the legal sense for that sort of thing.
08:06.20madant:)
08:06.58madantapparently some people are :D like when we started an introduction thread in the group and some people had a problem with that too :D
08:07.12RalithO.o
08:07.19Ralithpeople are weird.
08:07.31Ralithnot that a soc app is the worst of things a future employer might find upon googling.
08:07.42madanthahaha :D
08:08.21Ralith"But I don't want the internet to know I'm ga^H^Han amateur engineer!"
08:08.25madantI think the best approach as brlcad mentioned is to post the application at appspot and then reflect the same on the wiki and even better on the mailing list.. :) i will be doing that today :)
08:08.41Ralithwhat's this now?
08:09.04Ralithapplicants are expected to mirror their applications on the mailing list and the wiki?
08:09.25madantnot as a compulsion or anything :)
08:10.26madantthe only technical necessity is the appspot application :)
08:11.08Ralithwell, sure, but you're not *technically* expected to make contributions to establish your ability to read and write useful code.
08:11.33RalithI just didn't see any mention of an expectation to repost your application anywhere on the wiki instructions
08:11.51Ralithbrlcad: can you clarify?
08:13.58brlcadRalith: great (regarding the detcl), should have feedback sometime tomorrow hopefully
08:14.19brlcador you can keep pinging any of the mentors here too ;)
08:14.23madantRalith: did you read the "Applications, wiki, and early submission" mail from brlcad :) .. ah he is here :D
08:14.52Ralithbrlcad: heh
08:15.07Ralithmadant: I only just recently got on the ML, and I don't usually keep a close eye on my email; let me load up thunderbird.
08:15.31Ralithis very much an IRC person.
08:16.10madanthttp://www.nabble.com/Applications%2C-wiki%2C-and-early-submission-td22731057.html
08:16.11brlcadand that's right -- there's no "requirement" to cross-post to the wiki -- just some folks like to do that to share their application with others or to get discussion/feedback before it goes into the socghop interface
08:16.15Ralithoh, crap, forgot to confirm my subscription.
08:16.25Ralithmadant: thanks
08:16.36Ralithbrlcad: ah, so no point to once it's on google?
08:17.08Raliththought the wiki bit was odd because those concerned would be able to see it on google already, and that would explain it.
08:17.41brlcadRalith: no -- the same point could still hold, sharing the details of your application with the community at large
08:18.02Ralithhm, that reminds me, I should probably grab a wiki account.
08:18.12Ralithooh, recaptcha!
08:18.14Ralithkudos!
08:18.34madant:) i love it too :D
08:19.07Ralithoh, looks like I already registered and forgot.
08:19.09brlcadthere's no real "secret" to an application imho, some orgs require them to be hashed out publicly before they go into the app interface even
08:20.53brlcadexample, http://my.bzflag.org/w/User:IneQuation.pl
08:21.28brlcador http://my.bzflag.org/wiki/index.php?title=User:Nightstrike&oldid=5617
08:22.08brlcador http://my.bzflag.org/w/User:Will07c5 .. where we could quickly tell the student that his priorities were almot all wrong originally and woefully lacking in detail
08:28.41CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1314 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Page created w/ GSoC applications
08:28.53RalithCIA is neat.
08:29.15Ralithare the bots open source?
08:29.22Ralithi.e. would it be easy to host one independent of the service?
08:29.58brlcadyeah, the whole system can be retrieved and run independently
08:30.17brlcadit's a pretty complex system though
08:30.45Ralithneat!
08:30.56Ralithit's the ability to do so that matters, really
08:31.07brlcadthe bots themselves are pretty simple -- they just say what they're told to say
08:31.14Ralithalthough I can't help but think that it might not be hard to make a lightweight version that just attached to a single repo and/or set of RSS feeds
08:31.46brlcadif that's all you want, there are probably easier means (like libIRC or an existing bot like supybot or blootbot)
08:32.03RalithI thought that was the major selling point?
08:33.05brlcadselling point of what?
08:33.54brlcadcia's focus is more around commit data, which isn't caputureed well with rss fields and suffers other drawbacks
08:34.24brlcadthere are bots (supy for example) that will poll an rss feed and announce changes
08:34.35brlcadtend to be rather flakey
08:35.38RalithI mean, I thought the main point of CIA was to offer a commit announce bot.
08:36.02Ralithyou could implement a bot by more reliable means than RSS feeds, e.g. post-commit hooks; I just mentioned RSS feeds cuz they're nice and generic.
08:36.03brlcadyeah, one of the main original points
08:36.32brlcadcia uses / prefers post-commit hooks
08:36.52brlcador it'll take e-mail notifications
08:37.03brlcador it'll take xml rpc updates
08:37.12brlcador it can poll for updates
08:38.35Ralithright
08:38.42Ralithbut it seems a little odd to use a centralized service for that
08:38.48Ralithrather than instantiate something lightweight for each project
08:39.19brlcadthe complexity in the system is that it's geared with performance and scalability in mind, also keeps track of daily commit histories, automatically presents the data through a load-balanced web site, and a little bit more
08:39.52brlcadmostly because it's so easy to set up and someone else maintains it
08:40.42brlcadyou just drop in a commit notifier, and that's it .. everything else including running bots, the web site, the project listing on the site, all happening automatically
08:41.47brlcadkinda like how ibot is in about 100 channels .. even though there are dozens of irc factoid bots out there that projects could/do use by themselves
08:42.27brlcadsomeone else manages and maintains it, and I don't have to care
08:44.11archivistI run a multi channel bot, can be fun
08:44.55Ralithgood point.
08:45.10Raliththat makes a lot of sense
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11:10.22d-lo*readreadread*
11:10.36d-lomernin all
11:10.52madant_mernin d-lo :)
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12:16.12starseekerhmm.  built with enable-profiling, but don't see any a.out files from rt
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12:28.45``Erikhm, what is the bots webpage url?
12:29.08``Erikd-lo: you missed the big jg crash in e79!
12:31.58d-loI know.
12:32.21d-loCare level is pretty low.  Good weather (minus the tornado :/) this weekend.  hard to stay indoors :)
12:33.11``Erikit was sloppy and slow, there were plenty of long breaks of activity :)
12:33.40``Erikbreaks from activity, rather
12:34.04``Erikyesterdays hail almost makes me happy my car is in the shop and not infront of the house heh
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12:35.56d-loheh, thats kinda funny.  We didn't get hail up at our place.  just a nice view of the 'nado to the NW of us and a spit of rain.
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13:21.41starseekeruh... tornado?
13:21.47starseekerpics?
13:24.28d-loHeh, didn't snap any.  I looked out the window to see some nasty looking storm clouds.  Flipped on the TV only to see News channel 8 basicly saying "OMGOMGOMGOMGTORNADO".  Looked out the window again and saw what looked like a 'funnel', but mostly obscured by neighboring houses.
13:24.41starseekerah :-)
13:24.53d-loPower went out abou then, and I called the ball and got the family into the basement.
13:25.05starseekerindeed
13:25.46d-loNothing bad happened, infact, the rain was quite pathetic.  no cool air-raid sirens from the local VFDs... no awesome 2" hail... just about 5 minutes of torrential downpour.
13:25.51d-lothen... all over.
13:26.00d-losu was out 30 mins later :/
13:26.04d-losu= sun
13:26.24starseekerphew
13:27.20d-loyeah, I guess I should be more thankful than disappointed :)
13:28.19starseekerunless you REALLY don't like your current roof/home siding
13:31.39d-loI just wanted to see a car get thrown like a toy tonka truck.... its on my Bucket list.
13:38.28starseekerah
13:38.43starseekerwell, you could take up storm chasing as a hobby ;-)
13:38.51starseekerdoubt the insurance guys would go for it though
13:41.00d-loWell, if i ever become independantly wealthy, a widower and without children.... then storm chasing might be fun :)
14:31.12starseekerrealizes he needs to bring set theory/Venn diagram logic into the point question
14:31.39starseekerwonder if ASCII has set notation characters
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14:53.31mafm_hi
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15:33.56CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34105 10/brlcad/trunk/src/external/Cubit/ (Makefile.am g-sat.cpp g-sat.cxx): Rename g-sat.cxx to g-sat.cpp to be consistent with the other C++ sources in the 'brlcad' module.
15:43.27CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34106 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (bezier_2d_isect.c comb.c cut.c db5_bin.c db5_types.c): apparently don't need to include nmg.h, not using nmg routines/structures.
15:47.11madantbrlcad never sleeps :P
15:48.13CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34107 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: reverting a very old decision. separate the nmg routines from librt into their own library.
15:51.15CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34108 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: downgrade expected list of items for next release until later save for a few relatively simple ones
15:51.58CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34109 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: bob made the inside command work on edit primitives (this was on-schedule, just hadn't been moved up for current release)
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15:59.59CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34110 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (Makefile.am g_diff/ g_lint/ g_transfer/): start of stubs for the rest of the gtools
16:02.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34111 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (7 files in 4 dirs): step closer on gtools stub using g_qa.vcproj as forked base
16:04.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34112 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (3 files in 3 dirs): last step, update content to compile the right source files. probably still need minor source file changes to compile on windows.
16:06.59CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34113 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: can't imagine the uuid's are right, but this will hook the three new gtools into the windows build -- g_diff, g_lint, and g_transfer.
16:11.43CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34114 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (4 files in 4 dirs): update the deps. only g_qa needs libged, g_transfer needs libpkg and winsock
16:12.46CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34115 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/g_diff.c: g_diff doesn't use ged
16:34.02CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34116 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/ (g_diff.c g_lint.c g_qa.c g_transfer.c): ws, style consistency cleanup
16:35.58CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34117 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/g_diff.c: ugh, libged atrociously still has wdb_obj and friends (e.g., wdb_create_cmd) so DO have to include ged.h here. suckage.
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16:36.56*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.4 posted this weekend (20090313) || GSoC 2009 Begins!
16:37.31CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34118 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/g_diff/g_diff.vcproj: g_diff does use libged for the blasted wdb_obj funcs like wdb_create_cmd, wdb_get_tcl, and wdb_init_obj.
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16:43.38CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34119 10/brlcad/trunk/ (TODO include/ged.h): annotate the fixme items that the wdb and view objects in libged still need to be refactored/renamed
16:46.44CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34120 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: might not 'compile', but g_lint is hooked into the windows build now so remove the todo until we know there's a problem.
16:57.22brlcadRalith: interesting thread on /. about firefox's planned taskbar -- that's very similar to what we were discussing the other day
16:57.26brlcadhttp://people.mozilla.com/~faaborg/files/labs/taskFoxi1.png
16:58.37brlcad(particularly idea2 if you want to get specific on overlay integration and look n' feel)
16:59.04brlcadexcept for the silly ellipses around the action/verbs
17:24.17brlcadthings are looking really well for those that have already put an application in.. submission counts are quite low this year thusfar
17:24.39brlcadmuch better chances that previous years .. wonder how much of a "get it in at the last minute" rush there will be
17:24.48madant:)
17:25.09madanti expected a lot more discussion on the irc myself
17:25.26brlcadevery year seems to be a different twist
17:25.33madantwill submit in an hour :)
17:25.35mafmmaybe they extend the period for 1 month this year :P
17:25.44brlcadmafm: unlikely
17:25.48madantmafm lol
17:26.14brlcadi mean, maybe .. but last year the week or so extension didn't really do much but add some last minute desperation submissions that were pretty bad
17:26.33brlcadgot the count up, but none that made it
17:26.57madantand besides i wonder if google is really concerned about increasing the total number of applications this year :)
17:27.04brlcadthis year, there just hasn't been nearly as much advertising (by google, didn't get the /. headline, etc)
17:27.17brlcadyeah, I'm not worried
17:27.27brlcadI mean, we're only asking for 3 or 4 slots
17:27.31mafmDebian also talks about less and less applicants
17:27.42mafmanybody taking the GUI one?
17:27.47brlcadso we only need 3 or 4 good applications, and we already have at least two that I'd be happy with :)
17:28.50brlcadmafm: actually, there is a good application in application in to continue what you started
17:29.23d-lowhoa.... deja-vu
17:29.37brlcads/a good application/an/ :)
17:29.40d-loneeds to know if it was *the same* black cat.....
17:30.01d-lo;)
17:30.05brlcadnot enough samples to qualify it as good or bad yet :)
17:30.44madantcan't figure out the word limit for the proposal
17:31.00mafm7500 last year, IIRC
17:31.07mafmerm, characters
17:31.13madanthaha :D
17:31.50mafmbrlcad: one of the two that you're happy with? from whom?
17:32.00madantwonders whether writing or reading is tougher
17:32.38brlcadmafm: why applicants of course
17:33.37madantbrlcad: :D
17:33.48mafmI mean the nickname, so I'll talk to him/her if I see $1
17:34.15brlcadno point in calling people out, hang around and you'd find out ;)
17:34.53brlcadi know what you meant, just not going to get into who has submitted what apps unless they reveal it themselves just for sake of discretion until selections are made
17:34.54madant:) besides it is not fair to announce names before the final list is out
17:35.35mafmit was just curiosity, no list is definitive until all applications are in, anyway
17:35.42brlcadalso what's cool about putting your proposals on the wiki -- so other students can see what they're up against and can improve each other's work or submit for other areas
17:36.39mafmI didn't found the new ones in the wiki, where are they linked?
17:36.44brlcadthinks everyone should submit for (exactly) two ideas regardless just so desirable individuals aren't left out because of a competitive submission topic
17:37.06mafm(that's why I came to the channel, to ask directly :) )
17:37.09brlcadlike the web geometry database last year.. geez.  There was more than a half dozen submissions for it
17:37.25brlcadyou can check the recent changes
17:37.25madantand none got selected :O
17:37.30brlcadyep
17:37.34brlcadactually one did
17:37.47brlcadbut she was lost to a coin toss with another org that conflicted
17:38.09brlcadso one of you four last year got lucky :)
17:38.17madantah nice :)
17:39.23brlcadand yes, there was an actual coin toss by leslie since we both wanted her with pretty equal justifications and the student wanted to work with both equally
17:39.40mafmI had already done that, but only saw something new for libpc (aside from older devels) in the last few days
17:39.45mafmgonna dig further
17:39.50madantbrlcad: wow talk about coins and destiny :P
17:40.24brlcadmafm: does it matter?  shouldn't you be working on your proposals? :)
17:40.32brlcador do you intend to mentor?
17:40.35brlcador just watch? :)
17:40.47brlcad(all three are options, of course)
17:41.23brlcadmadant: yeah, i'm pretty happy with last year's results though
17:41.43brlcadwished more progress could be made, of course, but that can almost always be said ;)
17:41.47madantmafm: http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Ralith read this ?
17:42.37mafmmadant: reading it right now
17:42.56madantbrlcad: :D lets hope this year is much more productive.. I feel like we have a bunch of very interesting people.. i mean the ones who came on the channel at least
17:42.57mafmbrlcad: I don't think that I'm eligible, and besides that I don't think that I would apply this year
17:43.11mafmjust checking the proposals for curiosity
17:43.34mafmand to maybe help people in that part, even if not officially a mentor
17:43.47mafmbut if it's ralith, he's already an insider :)
17:43.52brlcadmafm: btw, I believe I am about ready to make an executive decision regarding the gui
17:44.07brlcadmafm: ah right, understand
17:44.12brlcadthen you should mentor!
17:45.13brlcadralith IS an insider .. but also just getting started with coding on BRL-CAD, getting new devs up and coding is always good even if they've been in the channel for years :)
17:45.27brlcadmafm: even as a backup mentor, you'll at least get a t-shirt
17:45.30madantMentor Manuel Montecelo :)
17:45.31brlcad:)
17:46.26mafmwell, it depends on the obligations
17:47.22mafmmy father died a few days ago and I have tonnes of things to do, delayed and new ones due to this "ocurrence"
17:47.59mafmwhat's the executive decision about the gui, using another toolkit (reading proposal right now)?
17:49.26madantmafm: really sorry to hear that. I know irc doesnt offer a good channel to convey what one feels very clearly .. nyways.. hope he had a great time
17:49.45mafmthanks
17:49.57mafmhe did, most of the time
17:50.28madanttoday was the death anniversary of my grandmom. went to the cemetery, church etc :)
17:50.33mafmhe was kind of a Big Fish kind of person, not so exaggerated, but well
17:51.33madantmafm: hehe :) my dad is a Big Fish kind of person too :D
17:52.16mafmhe died of cancer with multiple "branches", I think that the Big Fish character also did
17:52.48mafmso the last months were not very pleasant :(
17:52.56madanthmm. can imagine
17:53.57madantbrlcad: should i first post my assesment of the current status of libpc plus my plan first to the group / wiki and then submit to appspot like after 2 days probably ?
17:54.11mafmbut well, he did not suffer so much as it was expected etc, so at least it's something
17:54.42madantmafm: when was this ?
17:54.59mafmdied? less than 2 weeks ago
17:55.31madantok .. what are ur plans now that school is over ?
17:55.42mafmmadant: you were from india, right? when you talk about church, which one?
17:55.55madantwell I am a roman catholic :)
17:56.16madanthas ancestors who were baptised by St. Thomas around 2000 years ago apparently :D
17:56.41madantis definitely not very religious though :P
17:56.58mafmare you from Goa or some region with more european culture, or doesn't have anything to do?
17:57.16madantmafm: nope 100 % Indian :P
17:57.42mafmI'm not officially out of school, the final project to get the degree was to be presented in 20th of march, but it couldn't be... so I still have to finish some bits and present it
17:58.49mafmthat's why I don't know exactly whether I would be eligible for gsoc :)
17:59.29madantah.. u could ask Leslie you know.. at the channel ?
18:00.10mafmIIRC Goa even had candidates for the Pope "elections", and never went there but several friends did
18:00.30mafmwell, I don't know whether I'd like to apply to something
18:00.54mafmmy first option would be to continue the GUI project, but well :D
18:01.39mafmand after many years without holidays, it doesn't look a very attractive prospect (even if gsoc is)
18:01.49mafmsummer holidays, that is
18:02.35madant:)
18:03.37mafmbtw, I was supposed to be roman catholic too, but I only believed as a child
18:03.44brlcadmafm: really sorry to hear about your father, I can only imagine the suffering and pain but hope you're well
18:04.34brlcadmadant: sure, that'd work
18:04.37mafmbesides, nobody expects the spanish inquisition, with "almost-fanatical devotion to the pope" chief weapon, etc :P
18:04.59madantmafm: me too :) I was even an altar boy.
18:05.20mafmbrlcad: thanks too :)
18:05.49madantgoes to church on sundays so that his mom doesn't feel "All is lost" :D
18:06.42mafmI'm more or less OK, the worse part was the initial shock, and to pretend that everything was alright (so neither him or other people in the family knew the truth)
18:07.50mafmI stopped going to the church at around 15 I think, and now that my father died the priest wanted me to repent and come back to the shepherd :P
18:08.05madant:)
18:08.25mafmbrlcad: so the dramatic change was about Qt?
18:08.41brlcadhm?
18:08.43brlcaddramatic change?
18:10.10mafmbrlcad: well, whatever the executive decision would be :)
18:11.31hippieindamakin8hey ppl
18:11.39mafmhi hippieindamakin8
18:11.57hippieindamakin8hey mafm ! so are u mentoring this year ?
18:12.46mafmdunno yet
18:13.38hippieindamakin8madant, you are from goa or kerala ?
18:13.56mafmI wasn't involved in development after gsoc except for a bit towards the end of last year, IIRC
18:15.24madanthippieindamakin8: kerala :)
18:16.23hippieindamakin8madant, i just googled you and ur current location is thrissur apparently :)
18:19.59madantwow :)
18:20.10madantwell it is around 40 kilometer off
18:20.33madantfears google
18:20.38hippieindamakin8madant, cant expect more from google maps :).
18:20.56hippieindamakin8madant, that must be an awesome picturesque country side then
18:21.26d-loif you do a traceroute to www.google.com, you will see that the primary DNS server is www.sky.net ;)
18:22.44mafmmadant: you're in for another edition with a new proposal for libpc?
18:23.05madantyep :)
18:23.25madantgod's own country :)
18:23.36madantor countryside as the case maybe :P
18:24.30mafmwell, good luck then :)
18:24.41madantmafm: yes, would love to make some progress :)
18:25.38madantmafm: thank you :) , i do need a lot of luck to stay on track :)
18:28.59mafmmadant: what are you doing at school, degree, master...?
18:29.55madantmafm: masters
18:30.17madantmafm: you planning on a masters after ur thesis ?
18:30.18hippieindamakin8madant, where ?
18:31.40starseekeris starting to wonder if he'll need the constraint system to resolve this. erk
18:31.41madanthippieindamakin8: i have two options :) 1 is IISc , 2 IIMB
18:32.04madantstarseeker: :) resolve what ?
18:32.05mafmmadant: not sure yet, I don't like much the opportunities in the univs around, and I cannot easily move elsewhere in the next months
18:32.40hippieindamakin8madant, in architechture ? or smthing else like cs ?
18:32.56hippieindamakin8i.e at IISC
18:33.03madantIISc : Sustainability IIMB : MBA :)
18:33.14starseekermadant:  looking at comparing two points with error bounds, deciding if they are similar or not.  In isolation that's pretty simple, but if there are three or more points "in range" look out
18:33.26starseekerer s/similar/the same/
18:33.58madantstarseeker: did u see the discussion on checking the collinearity of three points using the determinant ?
18:34.36hippieindamakin8madant, wat is this discussion abt ?
18:34.50madantwonders whether that would be any use here though
18:35.21madantit was an excerpt from Beautiful Code book
18:35.30starseekermadant:  that might help when it comes time to look at implementation techniques, but first I need a decision methodology
18:36.19madantstarseeker: can you point me to the problem ? as in any doc /code ? i remember seeing u and sean talking about it but didn't pay attention
18:36.32starseekeri.e. given 3,4,...,n points with overlapping error bounds, how do I decide which ones should be regarded as being the same point and which should be treated as different?
18:36.51starseekerthere are a few notes in doc/TODO.BREP
18:37.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03117.196.142.56 07http://brlcad.org * r1315 10/wiki/User:Homovulgaris: Proposal Draft Added
18:38.05madantstarseeker: error bounds?
18:38.53starseekerBRL-CAD has a tolerance on dimensions - anything smaller than that tolerance can be ignored when, for example, doing overlap checks
18:39.24starseekerso any point has a value (x,y,z)
18:39.51starseekerx has a tolerance or error bound of delta_x
18:39.56starseekersame for y and z
18:40.16starseekerx, y, and z themselves are presumably stored as floating point numbers
18:41.27madantok.. so different points would be points which are further apart than sqrt(delta_x^2+delta_y^2+delta_z^2)
18:41.29starseekerso given two points (x1,y1,z1) and (x2,y2,z2), if their delta ranges overlap they might need to be treated as being the "same" point
18:42.14starseekermadant:  maybe, but I'm not sure if the error bound is spherical or cubic in x,y,z space
18:42.36hippieindamakin8starseeker, it is cubic in space
18:42.47starseekerthat's been my assumption
18:42.55hippieindamakin8starseeker, and it depends on the extent of overlap isnt it ?
18:43.25starseekerhippieindamakin8:  it might.  these are the issues I'm trying to work through now
18:43.35madanthmm.. in effec the check is whether (x1-delta_x1,x1+delta_x1) and (x2-delta_x2,x2+delta_x2) intervals overlap right ?
18:43.41starseekerright
18:43.43madantand similarly for other coordinates
18:44.11hippieindamakin8starseeker, cubic if error is the worst case
18:44.29starseekerbut if one point overlaps with two other points and those two other points don't overlap, it makes no sense to treat both of those points as being the same as the original point
18:44.37hippieindamakin8*if error is taken in the worst case
18:44.52madanthmm.. so if there are n coordinates you the worst case is checking all the C(n,2) combinations right ?
18:44.59starseekerA may equal B, and A may equal C, but if B != C then A may NOT equal B AND C
18:45.37hippieindamakin8madant, rt but split into regions
18:45.40starseekermadant:  I'm not sure - hopefully some sort of decision metric can be found, but it might be that to correctly decide things such a worst case is unavoidable
18:45.43hippieindamakin8*the space
18:46.38madantstarseeker: interesting problem ? did you find any literature on this ?
18:46.58starseekermadant:  Not yet.  I've been looking, but it may be I don't know the correct keywords
18:46.58madants/interesting problem ? / interesting problem ! :)
18:47.50starseekerit gets even more complex if you allow different points to have different deltas
18:48.09pacman87starseeker: have you looked at clustering algorithms?
18:48.46madantso in the above scenario what do u want the result to be ? A,B and C all "mutually" different
18:49.25starseekermadant:  that's one of the questions - what the "correct" answer should be
18:49.32pacman87if two points are the same, do you treat that location as the mean of the two points?
18:49.53starseekerpacman87: no decision made about how to handle it yet :-)
18:50.09starseekerpacman87:  clustering?  no I hadn't
18:50.37madantstarseeker: what is the final purpose of categorizing the points ? i mean is the result to be used in some other process ?
18:50.37hippieindamakin8starseeker, why cant there be an algo which in its worst case is O(n^2), where you check if each point lies in the error bound a point and go checking for each point
18:51.02starseekerhippieindamakin8:  That's probably what will happen, or something like it
18:51.09hippieindamakin8and this can be worked upon using randomized algos
18:51.19pacman87http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_analysis
18:51.26hippieindamakin8or planar subdivision and parallel analysis
18:51.53starseekermadant: When we evaluate breps with a ray, we may hit edge cases where the question of point equality will come up.  If so, we want to have a consistent procedure implemented that we can call
18:52.55starseekerpacman87: Hmm, yeah, looks like I was thinking about clustering algorithms without knowing what they were called :)
18:54.20hippieindamakin8pacman87, yup :P (i worked on k-means when working on my industrial intern)
18:54.24pacman87one of my programming assignments covered it, but in the context of data mining
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18:55.03pacman87off to class, back later
18:59.29hippieindamakin8starseeker, similar to wat i said.. kmeans takes the worst possible time of O(n^2) and the expected value is O(n) which isnt bad
18:59.35hippieindamakin8and it is easier to implement
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19:01.37madantstill can't figure out how k-means algorithm solves starseeker's dilemma of what the result should be
19:02.13hippieindamakin8again ponders over the problem.
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19:25.12hippieindamakin8starseeker, if we find out the intersections what next ? if i have found out the combination of cubes in the space which overlap to some extent or completely (provided they all have the same error ), there shall be situations where A intersects B, B intersects C and A doesnt intersect C.
19:25.12starseekerexactly
19:25.39hippieindamakin8estimates that the above step takes approximately O(nlogn)
19:25.39starseekerprobably the thing to do is to find the two closest points within the identified subset, treat those as being the same, and follow the cascade of consequences as far as other decisions
19:25.39starseekerif A is closer to B than it is to C, set A=B and A!=C
19:25.39starseekerbut "closer" might not be enough
19:25.39madantstarseeker: as pacman87 asked in case two points are found to be the same do u take their median to be the new point ?
19:25.39hippieindamakin8starseeker, the better thing would be divide the bounding box into a mesh of cubes and then work on it ?
19:25.39starseekerthe metric I am considering is relative volume of overlap between A and B's delta box vs. the same volume calculated for A and C
19:25.39starseekermadant: I don't know
19:25.39starseekerhippieindamakin8: what do you mean?
19:25.40hippieindamakin8as in in each cube all the points are approximated to a single point which is either the centroid of those points or center of the cube
19:25.40hippieindamakin8and the size of this smaller cube shall be the error bound
19:26.04starseekerhippieindamakin8: you're considering the subcase of many points all within the same collection of bounding boxes?
19:26.41hippieindamakin8i meant one bounding box (bounding all the space into consideration)
19:26.58starseekerneeds to make an organized illustration of the various cases for n=3 points to think about
19:27.35starseekerhippieindamakin8: That might result in more point consolidation that we want
19:28.43hippieindamakin8starseeker, yeah true but the size of the smaller boxes can be increased to decrease the extent of consolidation obtained
19:29.59starseekerhmm.  I'll have to think some more
19:30.13hippieindamakin8tries to look into the 'approximation algos for geometry ' literature if he can find smthing which can help
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20:34.49CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03r_weiss * r34121 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/ (main.c opt.c viewarea.c): updates to rtarea adding center computations
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21:46.26brlcadalright weiss, progress!
22:00.34madantbrlcad: weiss new developer ?
22:01.46Ralithhey mafm!
22:01.57RalithI see you've seen my proposal.
22:01.59mafmhi Ralith
22:01.59Ralithany comments?
22:02.02madantah the gui heroes meet :D
22:02.09mafmgui heroes
22:02.13Ralithhehe
22:02.16RalithI haven't earned that yet.
22:02.16mafm... :P
22:02.19mafm1 sec
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22:20.51brlcadmafm: though you had good reason (wrt, "I wasn't involved in development after gsoc except for a bit towards the end of last year"), personal reasons
22:21.03brlcadhopefully you'll be knee deep in code here again soon ;)
22:21.26brlcadsomeone needs to help weiss with his patch
22:21.42brlcadthat needs to be reverted/fixed
22:21.46starseekersomebody rang? ;-)
22:21.51starseekerwhat's busted?
22:21.58starseekerI haven't tried building yet
22:28.15starseekerhmm - builds OK, doesn't seem to crash...
22:28.40brlcadit's not a compile problem
22:28.47brlcadthe patch has some problems
22:28.51brlcadI sent a note to the list
22:29.21brlcadiirc, I *think* he's on the list -- if he's not, he should be
22:30.02brlcadmadant: yeah, very green
22:31.00starseekerah, yes I see it
22:33.42brlcadstarseeker: and it's kinda important -- I was going to tag the source release later tonight
22:33.49brlcadmost of the changes shouldn't take long at all
22:34.18starseekerrevert til  after the tag, or fix?  that's user visible if left in
22:34.19brlcadand that'd be a good one to make the release so it can be communicated with s2 golks
22:34.22starseekerk
22:34.35brlcadyeah, I wouldn't leave it in for release
22:34.41brlcadI'd revert if he can't fix it today
22:34.57brlcadin fact I'll just revert it right now
22:35.03starseekerhe's gone, so it'd be up to him seeing it on the list tonight
22:35.07starseekerk
22:35.36Ralithbrlcad: interesting concepts on that firefox image
22:35.51Ralithdoesn't look quite as powerful as what you had in mind, but I certainly see the similarities
22:36.06brlcadit's not as powerful just because all they have to work with is a web browser
22:36.14brlcadand they don't have inherint commands already
22:36.23brlcadwe already have hundreds to work with
22:36.31mafmbrlcad: so what's that executive decision?
22:37.01mafmRalith: probably you worked with the code more than me lately
22:37.03brlcadmafm: that we need a better gender ratio in this channel
22:37.12brlcadit's a g'damn sausage fest in here
22:37.16brlcadj/k ;)
22:37.21mafmhot chicks? that's fine for me :P
22:37.43mafmRalith: anyway, if I can be of any help let me know, and I'll try to keep an eye
22:37.53Ralithmafm: I've been toying with the build system more than the actual code, really
22:37.59Ralithoh, that reminds me
22:38.05Ralithmafm: why did you require Ogre 1.7.0?
22:38.21Ralithit seems to work fine on 1.6.1
22:38.31mafm1.7.0 as opposed to stable releases?
22:38.38mafmIIRC there was something like 1.4 stable by that time
22:38.55brlcadmafm: there's a couple things I still intend to check on, but basically that we should just run with making Qt work
22:38.56mafmand they didn't have some functionalities that RBGui needed by then
22:39.07mafmso I used trunk, or something like that
22:39.15brlcadonly on the thin client front, though, not the entire application back-end or other tools for now
22:39.42mafmI see
22:40.01brlcadstill need to verify a couple things with regards to a few widgets
22:40.04mafmI never used Qt, but other than using a precompiler, I heard that it's not very difficult
22:40.09brlcadand how it integrates with ogre
22:40.25brlcadthe precompiler is the one big hassle that leaves a bad taste
22:40.30mafmlast time that I checked RBGui (january I think) it was in the same state
22:40.37brlcadshould see if there are any facilities to avoid using it
22:40.47mafmso, well, it's nice but... :)
22:40.48brlcadyeah, I'm not surprised
22:40.56brlcadrbgui being dead wasn't a problem :)
22:41.35brlcadit's more just where we'd end up after it's fully customized, simple widgets with limited behavior
22:41.56Ralithbrlcad: I get the impression that the precompiler contributes a lot to the ease of development with Qt
22:42.06Ralithwhat's so unappetising about it?
22:42.23brlcadI'd see us wasting a lot of cycles making a hundred dumb things work (like we do with Tk now) like getting select/copy/paste working on a text widget
22:43.06brlcadRalith: I suppose I just haven't drank the coolaid yet -- I like my sources to compile with a preprocessor and a compiler
22:43.09mafmI had thought about getting rid of Mocha for one, I think that RBGui uses only a few simple classes from it... but if it's not going to be used, one thing less to worry abount :)
22:43.31Ralithbrlcad: I certainly understand the sentiment, but I wouldn't write it off immediately.
22:44.03Ralithmafm: yeah, before I realized how apt Qt might be, I saw that as one of the first things I'd try to work on
22:44.11Ralithmuch of what mocha provides is even already in BRL-CAD somewhere.
22:44.23brlcadRalith: I'm not writing it off, I just don't like things that lock you in to more than an API
22:44.54brlcadsimilar to the openthreads declarations, pragmas, and other tool-specific language overlays that some projects run with
22:46.10starseekerthinks he remembers the QT precompiler being fairly essential for hiding a LOT of really nasty details, but it's been a while
22:46.50starseekerlast time I was looking at it was when someone was trying to integrate lisp CFFI with QT, iirc
22:47.09Ralithgiven the degree to which Qt is an entire application framework, rather than just a widget toolkit, I'd imagine general dependency on it might be hard to avoid if we want to take advantage of all that it offers.
22:47.43CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34122 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/ (main.c opt.c viewarea.c): revert r34121 due to a variety of issues given I'm about to tag a source release. most pertinent to the release is the addition of an rt option (-y) that doesn't apply to any of the other raytrace applications.
22:49.07mafmRalith: what's your primary OS? FreeBSD?
22:49.15Ralithmafm: linux, at the moment.
22:49.22Ralithfreebsd laptop died and I had to get a new system up quick
22:50.31mafmI see
22:51.03mafmRBGui was easy to build for me (with the patches), but that was a while ago :D
22:51.09Ralithpatches?
22:51.36mafmyep, src/other includes original RBGui with further patches
22:51.43mafmand the same for Mocha
22:51.55mafmI think that OIS and OGRE did not need them
22:52.00*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
22:52.25mafmthey were basic patches implementing little stuff, cleaning headers, etc
22:52.52Ralithoh, I'd forgotten about that.
22:52.59Raliththat explains that.
22:54.13mafm+float PosixPlatformManager::getDoubleClickTime( )
22:54.15mafm+{
22:54.16mafm+       // ...
22:54.18mafm<PROTECTED>
22:54.19mafm:)
22:54.38mafmmissing things like that, it didn't even compile -- I guess that nobody had tested it in linux before releasing
22:55.18mafmthey were small things like that IIRC, anyway, it must be in SVN logs shortly after importing
22:56.52Ralithyeah, I had to add that in too
22:59.13``Eriknice
23:01.14mafmI think that I filled some of those with real implementations, but well :)
23:01.30mafmas I said, it must be in SVN
23:01.50mafmdoes Qt render inside the opengl context, or around it?
23:01.56Ralithit can do either
23:02.04RalithI plan to do the former
23:02.15mafmnice
23:02.36mafmhave you checked some example application or so?
23:02.53Ralithit's all linkified in my official gsoc application
23:02.58Ralithlemme dig that up
23:03.25Ralithhttp://doc.trolltech.com/4.5/demos-boxes.html
23:03.28mafmoh, I don't have access to it, only to the wiki
23:05.51mafmgoody
23:05.58madantRalith: wow @ the boxes O.o
23:06.03Ralith?
23:06.12mafmseems like a good replacement of RBGui for this task
23:06.14mafm:)
23:06.17Raliththat's my thought.
23:08.25CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1316 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code: update apply url to socghop site
23:08.29mafmbtw Ralith, what/where are you studying?
23:09.25mafmfor some reason I thought that you were already a teacher or something like that, when you told me last year that you were interested in the project
23:09.49Ralithpeople always seem to get that kind of impression from me
23:09.53Ralithprobably 'cuz I'm such a grammar nazi
23:10.35Ralithactually, I only just got accepted to a college; last year I didn't even qualify for SoC, or I would have applied then, too.
23:11.20brlcadmafm: if I'm undertanding everything I've read to date, especially since 4.0, they've moved towards rendering everything through a generalized backend that gives them an opengl context to work with
23:11.34brlcadallowing the easily zoomable interfaces, simple vector scaling, accelerated rendering
23:11.58brlcadbut even if they didn't, yeah -- our entire window should be opengl, that's still the goal
23:12.08brlcadone big context with widgets in it
23:12.09madantthis qt looks nothing like my "memory" of Qt :P
23:12.20Ralithhehe
23:12.39brlcadmadant: kde gives it a bad name ;)
23:13.28madantis a core gnome-er .. well now xmonader :)
23:13.54mafmvector scaling... one of the things that you wanted last year already :)
23:13.57madanti always feel kde looks childish :P
23:14.32Raliththere we go
23:14.34Ralithapplication linkified
23:14.35CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1317 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Added links from GUI SoC application
23:19.12madantRalith: how's reprap ;) ?
23:19.47Ralithmadant: in general or in particular?
23:19.55madantin particular ;)
23:20.29Ralithmy machine's nearly finished
23:20.41madantawesome :)
23:20.42Ralithjust need to wire things up and build the extruder barrel
23:21.03madanthah.. then onto a few kids ;)
23:21.41mafmI read about reprap somewhere in the last few days, can't remember where
23:22.45mafmRalith: maybe the fact that you didn't apply for soc gave me the impression of being a post-student :D
23:22.59Ralithcould be
23:29.21brlcadseveral of the guys I work with are technically students and a decade or two older than I .. you can be a student at any age / stage of life ;)
23:32.33Ralithnot much is as rewarding as learning about cool stuff, after all.
23:38.41madantwill be back after a 5km run : 5 am here :D
23:44.42brlcadmadant: awesome
23:44.53brlcadsee you in 20 minutes ;)
23:52.07mafmI used to go to exams with people of 70 around me
23:53.32brlcadmy professors for some courses were students with me in other courses at the university
23:54.21Ralithneat!
23:55.21brlcadI knew I was over my head when my calc III professor was in the same course with me on (graduate level) game theory .. that was three weeks of utter hell
23:55.53brlcadI would have had to drop half my workload just to keep up
23:57.41*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=andrecas@189.71.13.123)
23:59.29brlcadhowdy andrecastelo
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090331

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090331

00:02.02mafmlol :)
00:02.04mafmhi andrecastelo
00:02.24mafmin my case, it's because many ppl take advantage at distance learning just for fun
00:02.48mafmor, in the case of businessman or polititians, to get a degree as lawyers or so
00:03.23mafmso half of ppl is more or less young ppl as in other unis, specially for engineerings as me
00:03.35mafmbut other ppl are of old age
00:04.07mafmthere are even programs for inmates in prisons, and ppl working abroad in different places of Europe and America
00:04.12mafmit's funny :)
00:09.10*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-64.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
00:12.13*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-76-57.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
00:13.50andrecastelohi brlcad, mafm :D
00:15.13mafmandrecastelo: applying for gsoc?
00:28.40CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1318 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Checklist: expand the checklist into four main sections, one during the application period, then before coding begins, and then while coding, then after it's all done
00:30.02Ralithyay!
00:32.55andrecastelomafm: nope :(
00:33.00andrecastelomafm: you?
00:33.28madanttook 23:30 :|
00:34.48mafmandrecastelo: not sure yet, and not sure if as mentor or student... still checking project ideas and so on, and thinking about my future
00:34.52mafmandrecastelo: why not?
00:35.19madanthowdy castelo ;)
00:35.21mafmmadant: you need to drink more tea :P
00:35.34madantis a coffee person
00:35.46madantwhere is pacman87 :) that would make it a perfect reunion :)
00:35.59pacman87right here :D
00:36.12madantandrecastelo: thinking about future is never easy i guess
00:36.18mafmmadant: heretic!
00:36.23madantpacman87: yay :P
00:36.30mafmI love coffee too, too much :(
00:36.50madantwhy the sad face . coffee is life :)
00:36.56madantpacman87: how is school .
00:37.22andrecastelomadant: true, perfect reunion :)
00:38.14brlcadhehe
00:38.14madantand did something happen in the direction of the clustering discussion
00:38.14pacman87madant: busy.  i'm working on making tetris with a 6811, and writing a darknet F2F client
00:38.14mafmmadant: because I can't drink as much as I would like
00:38.42pacman87madant: i think the clustering discussion was more an idea-gathering than a decide-something
00:39.00yukonbobhello, cadheads
00:39.50madantpacman87: 6811 sounds kewl.. :)
00:40.32pacman87512 B ram, 512 B rom
00:40.53madanthaha .. and a lot of tinkering around ;)
00:40.53pacman87we're interfacing external eeprom using the address/data bus
00:41.10madantah it is like a project or a competition ?
00:41.16pacman87a bit of both
00:41.22pacman87it's for class
00:41.26*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
00:41.30pacman87and there's a competition at the end
00:41.31madantwhats the F2F client for
00:41.40pacman87concurrent and distributed systems programming
00:41.53pacman87it's a 'chose your own project'
00:41.56brlcadthe 6811 is actually faster than the first hardware that ran brl-cad .. memory not far off too
00:42.15brlcadit was just bigger than a refrigerator back then
00:42.19madantbrlcad: what was that monster :D
00:42.27``Erikhrm, pdp11/70?
00:43.26pacman87i want to find a graphics LCD panel that i can interface directly to the display RAM from the address/data bus
00:43.34pacman87memory-mapped IO style
00:43.43pacman87but i haven't found any drivers that do that yet
00:44.38``Erikthere'll still have to be some kinda controller in the mix to translate, pacman :/ lcd's and memory work a bit differently
00:45.12``Erikprobably be easier to just glue i2c components together or somethin'
00:45.22madanthas always wondered whether higher polyomino games would be nice
00:45.58pacman87``Erik: yeah, i know; i'm looking for a controller that will let me talk to the display ram, and the controller syncs the display ram with the LCD panel
00:45.59``Erik(6811 or 6812? I thought motorola discontinued 6811's in favor of 6812's a long time ago, a 6812 can run 6811 code 'and then some')
00:46.38``Erik<-- did some assembly and low level C on both those chips back in college :) fun stuff
00:46.47pacman876811.  we use the 6812 for most of the stuff we do, but the point of this is to do external memory
00:47.29``Erikhm, I thought you could get 6812's with no internal memory
00:48.04``Erikhas been tempted to figure out how to get his pics talking to old simm ram
00:48.07pacman87it's also possible that UT has some big stock of 6811s from before they stopped making them
00:48.39pacman87and our 6812s are on dev boards with serial monitors to program them
00:51.30``Erikof course, I've also been tempted to buy a 68040 and build an old school unix box out of it, I seem to get tempted an awful lot and act an awful little ;)
00:53.44*** join/#brlcad Lezard (n=lezardfl@189.58.209.20.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br)
01:02.11mafmnight, folks :)
01:03.30Lezardwell i`m interested in one of the project ideas, could you guys give me more information in the MGED User Interface Improvements project?
01:04.44brlcadLezard: thanks, that helps :)
01:05.03brlcadso our main modeler right now is called MGED
01:05.42brlcadit's actually probably best explained by just running it -- it's not easy to learn, not easy interface to discvoer
01:06.14brlcadbasically, if you look at the screenshots on http://brlcad.org/gallery/ under the screenshots section, you'll see various pictures of it running
01:06.37brlcadmeant here
01:07.15Lezardlooking at the screenshots
01:07.37Lezardwell... i really agree that you need a more friendly interface, at least from what i see with the screenshots
01:09.27brlcadthe interface is being overhauled completely
01:09.39brlcadthat has been in the works for a while and was a gsoc project last year
01:09.47Lezardhmm
01:09.51brlcadbut in the meantime, mged can and should still be made easier to use
01:09.51Lezarddid anyone apply?
01:10.14brlcadjust one person has applied to continue that project again this year thusfar
01:10.31Ralithwaves
01:10.37Lezardhello Ralith o/
01:10.41Ralithhullo
01:11.04LezardMy main problem is that i`m not a Tcl/Tk expert...
01:11.19RalithI'm sure it's not hard to learn
01:11.29LezardI`m a researcher in my university in the HCI lab
01:11.32brlcadLezard: mged is about 1/3rd tcl/tk and about 2/3rds C
01:11.55Lezardso i got kinda interested in the project, after all i could test my skills
01:11.56brlcadso much of what can be done to make it easier to use can be done on the C side
01:12.09*** join/#brlcad objorn (n=safar@unaffiliated/objorn)
01:12.22brlcadlike better introspection, help system, cleaned up command layer, etc
01:12.42brlcadthe gui aspects are tcl/tk though -- the new system is where that changes it up to C/C++
01:13.09Lezardwell i`m more interested in the gui aspects
01:13.20brlcadhaving someone with HCI experience take a hack at mged would be phenomenal -- you'd have a pretty big opportunity to make a big impact
01:13.45brlcadthere are something on the order of 200k downloads a year, about 20k a month that would benefit from better usability ;)
01:14.06RalithI'd also love to have your input on my work on the new system, if I get accepted
01:14.40brlcadyeah, there's the guy that has that application in for continuing last year's work thusfar ;)
01:15.17Lezardso you think that even if my Tcl/Tk skills aren`t very advanced, i should apply ?
01:15.23objornwhere are the 32bit builds?
01:15.26brlcadstarseeker: you know any word about whether weiss is working on fixing it?
01:15.38brlcadobjorn: for binary builds, you have to go back a few releases
01:15.41objorni only see 64bit http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292&package_id=113559
01:15.45objornokay
01:15.45RalithLezard: certainly; GSoC's all about learning.
01:16.05brlcadgenerally recommend just building the latest from source regardless if you can
01:16.06RalithLezard: of course, you might want to look over some docs on it beforehand so you have some idea what you're getting into
01:16.28brlcadLezard: what languages would you say you know pretty well?
01:16.59brlcadtcl/tk is a frustrating blessing .. sometimes great to work with and sometimes makes you go looking for a shotgun
01:17.13Lezardwell, i`m confident in my php and pascal, my C is about average
01:17.26Lezardas my python
01:17.36brlcadtcl's not "too" dissimilar from php
01:18.12madantLezard: php and pascal , interesting combination
01:18.18brlcadthe syntax is definitely different, check out http://www.tcl.tk/about/language.html
01:18.43madantLezard: what do / did u do in pascal ?
01:21.15*** join/#brlcad typ0 (n=coder@um-sd06-125-2.uni-mb.si)
01:22.30Lezardmadant: Well, last thing i did in pascal was a program to manage a store
01:22.31brlcadtyp0: so the iges converter.. have you worked with iges before?
01:22.44Lezardnothing too complicated i guess...
01:22.58brlcadtyp0: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IGES has a link to the spec iirc
01:23.04typ0thanks
01:23.08typ0didn't work with it before
01:23.28typ0but i can use the student bonding period to study the current converter source code
01:23.34madantLezard: hehe.. not at all. I was just asking since pascal is a relatively uncommon language skill ;)
01:23.34typ0and familiarize myself with the format
01:23.42Lezardsorry if i took a long time to answer, i`m doing the laundry
01:23.52Lezardwell, yeah, i learned it in my last university...
01:24.24Lezardused it for some programs in class, and to code that managing program to a friend
01:24.47brlcadmadant: actually I think it's pretty common (for some of us older folk) .. just not one many will admit to knowing/using ;)
01:24.56brlcadoften an "intro to programming" language ;)
01:25.12LezardAgreed
01:25.27LezardI know other languages as well, but it has been sometime since i code...
01:25.28madantbrlcad: :) yeah i remember a friend of mine having to deal with pascal for some algorithms which were written a decade ago :)
01:25.37madanter .. make it two decades ago :)
01:26.03LezardBut i know that at least my algorithms logic is still fine... at least was last year in the Coding Arena...
01:26.06madantI hear it is pretty good for mathematical stuff /
01:26.08madant?
01:26.08Lezardwere
01:28.12*** join/#brlcad deeeffache (n=deeeffac@adsl-99-145-15-192.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)
01:28.17madanthad an introduction to computers in LOGO
01:29.05LezardMan, i should be sleeping
01:29.13Lezardits going to be a long night
01:29.36madantLezard: gn, do come back if u need any help regarding brl-cad
01:30.00LezardI`m not goint to sleep, i need to finish some stuff for my class tomorrow
01:30.04brlcadLezard: a little piece of you dies every time you sleep!
01:30.19Lezardagreed
01:30.22madantagrees with this philosophy of brlcad's :P
01:30.23brlcadthinks that will be one of his new phrases worth repeating ad infitum
01:30.48brlcadhello deeeffache
01:30.58deeeffachehola
01:31.28brlcadg'dammits .. cruise control is stuck again
01:32.50Ralithmadant: what're you applying for, again?
01:33.32madantRalith: further work in libpc :) http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Homovulgaris
01:33.55Ralithoo, that stuff!
01:33.56Ralithawesome!
01:33.57Ralith:D
01:34.46madanti think the gui will be more visually appealing not to mention awesome :)
01:34.53Ralithis looking forward to having that working
01:35.10Ralitheh, the GUI's worthless without a powerful backend
01:35.33Ralithit's just there to hold people's attention long enough to become comfortable with the package
01:35.34madantRalith: which univ do u go to ?
01:35.59Ralithnot actually in univ yet; turns out SoC lets you in if you've got an acceptance letter.
01:36.25``Erik*readreadread* pascal pascal, or delphi?
01:36.42RalithI do look forward to making a shiny and usable GUI, but the GUI is an enabler
01:37.07Raliththe point of BRL-CAD is, after all, not just to model things.
01:37.16brlcadvisually appealing AND awesome
01:37.22Ralithhehe
01:37.26brlcadwe could just name the binary "awesome"
01:37.36Ralithisn't there already a window manager called that?
01:37.42brlcadah, yeah, probably ;)
01:37.46``Erikteh-awesom3z.7.14.4.tar.bz2
01:38.18Ralithaw3d. Reads as 'awed'
01:38.29Lezardbrb
01:38.33Lezardgoing to cook my dinner
01:38.37brlcadyeah, actually 'awesome' wm has a lot of the same usability considerations as the new gui
01:38.45Ralithhehe
01:39.02brlcadsimilar HCI backings
01:39.08RalithI guess that kind of design is just inherently awesome.
01:43.33brlcadhas the munchies
01:44.03brlcaddebates hitting up the bar down the street for some satisfaction
01:49.03brlcadnon-overlapping windows, everything can be performed with a keyboard, swappable contexts/tabs/tiles, automatic default unobscured layout arrangement, ..
01:49.13brlcadreminding himself out loud
02:00.24brlcadstarseeker: yeah, saw the start of that :)  pretty cool
02:00.34brlcadstarseeker: so was reading your brep notes
02:00.44brlcadheh, gmta
02:02.44yukonbobhttp://pastebin.ca/1377525
02:03.02brlcadhowdy yukonbob
02:03.05yukonbob:)
02:03.26brlcadyukonbob: er.. you're running autoconf there
02:03.27yukonbobNoteable for above paste: NetBSD 5_RC3, pkgsrc.
02:03.31brlcadthat won't work
02:03.38brlcadneeds to be the full toolchain
02:03.41brlcad./autogen.sh
02:03.45yukonbobnods
02:03.49yukonbobwill continue from there :)
02:04.07brlcadmore specifically, if you want to do it manually, you're missing aclocal
02:04.26brlcadthere's a comment in autogen.sh some ways down that describes the manual steps
02:04.36brlcadlists them out
02:04.52brlcadautoreconf should do the trick too with the right options
02:05.26yukonbobwill poll the tools; thx for the directional hint
02:06.29brlcadany reason you're not running autogen.sh ?
02:07.01yukonbobbrlcad: is wrapped in old(er) config I had for pkgsrc... need to give it some hints.
02:07.29brlcadhm?
02:07.49brlcadah, you mean you have a pkgsrc target that is set up to run autoconf directly like that?
02:07.55yukonbobyup :)
02:08.00brlcadthat shouldn't have ever worked...
02:08.03yukonbobI'll give it more specific hints...
02:08.23brlcadmaybe from a source checkout after aclocal had already ran
02:08.38brlcader, s/checkout/tarball/
02:08.50brlcadbut still.. unusual
02:08.52yukonbobbrlcad: good guess...
02:09.41yukonbobI've certainly had the whole affair successfully wrapped in pkgsrc before, including ripping out all in-tree options like Tcl, ITcl, Tk, various gfx libs, etc., etc.
02:10.07yukonbobjust working on re-implementing with "modern" co
02:10.14brlcadshould be running either "autoreconf -i -f -I m4" or autogen.sh
02:10.14yukonbobs/co/checkout/
02:10.19yukonbobnods
02:10.36yukonbobwill retry l8r tonight...
02:10.40brlcadideally the latter so we can control it ;)
02:10.52yukonbobnoted
02:10.59yukonbobgets kicked out of cafe...
02:11.06brlcadoh noes!
02:11.11yukonbob:)
02:11.12brlcadze coffeee!
02:11.19yukonbobchat later, brl-nerds
02:11.24brlcadcya geek
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02:48.11objornbrl-cad is simply 400 applications...
02:49.13objorn-simply
02:49.17objorni did not realize this
02:49.30objornnow i'm looking at the wiki trying to figure out how to use it
02:51.33objornah, mged
02:51.49objornbrlcad/bin$ ./mged
02:51.51objorn./mged: error while loading shared libraries: libtermio.so.19: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
02:52.24objorni downloaded the packages and haven't done ./configure, make, or make install
02:52.44objornbut i also can't find autogen.sh using find . -name autogen.sh
02:53.13objornin the brlcad folder
03:04.49brlcadhuh, objorn where'd you get a source tarball from?
03:05.37objorni'm guessing it's binary
03:05.48objorni got the install instructions confuesed
03:06.33starseekerbrlcad:  here's the ascii art in the TODO.BREP taken a bit further:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/points.pdf
03:06.38objornso putting brlcad/ in /usr will solve the problem?
03:06.54objornis highly considering just downloading from source
03:06.56brlcadyeah
03:07.12brlcadif this is for gsoc, you should start from a source chekcout
03:07.44objornit's for my own interest
03:08.21objorni have a feeling i will being needing to use it in about a year so i should become familiar now
03:09.02brlcadok, cool
03:34.25Ralithstarseeker: what is that, and why does it make xpdf lock up?
03:43.59brlcadstarseeker: what's missing from that art is the sample determination
03:45.09brlcadRalith: something about how it's encoded.. massively eating up cpu here
03:45.29brlcadit's just a bunch of simple lines, but something wrong with the pdf
03:45.54Ralithdoesn't even eat much CPU here
03:45.56Ralithjust locks
03:47.06pacman87it was taking up all of one core for me
03:47.38pacman87i gave up and closed it
03:49.36brlcadre-encodes it
03:50.16brlcadhttp://bzflag.bz/~sean/points.pdf
03:52.12brlcadfew cases not missing, not that it matters  -- the three-case can be considered to cover all possibilities pair-wise if you treat one of them, say C, as being the test sample (just that several options become invalid samples)
03:55.32brlcadalso not clear that the representative shape is accurate -- they end up being distance checks with a tolerance so those should be spheres of uncertainty
03:55.52brlcadfor computational reasons as well as just not inducing an aliasing bias
03:57.25brlcadit'd be square/rectangular if the comparisons were done per coordinate component individually but they're not (intentionally) as it would introduce an artificial shape factor (and be more book-keeping)
03:57.38brlcadinteresting idea, though, for certain
03:57.47brlcadand assuming I'm just not missing something
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04:38.34starseekerbrlcad:  I doubt you are
04:38.34starseekerI thought the comparisons would be done per component, but if not then yes it would be spheres
04:38.50brlcadyeah, nah -- they are point-point distances
04:39.15starseekerit doesn't actually matter too much - I just need to re-draw the cases with spheres
04:39.22starseekermight eliminate a few, not sure
04:39.35brlcaddoing it per component is smaller, but a biased shape
04:39.53brlcaddon't redraw, it gets the point across
04:40.02brlcadno pun intended
04:40.05starseekerheh
04:40.13starseekerscolds inkscape for doing such a sucky pdf
04:40.28brlcadlooks like they use cairo
04:40.34starseekeryeah
04:40.34brlcadso might be cairos fault for the crap
04:40.46brlcadeither way, something really wrong with it :)
04:40.55starseekerI wondered why it rendered so slow
04:42.03starseekerheh - spheres would actually mean circles, and that would (probably) make it proper Venn diagrams after all :-)
04:42.20brlcadso the trick with the tests are all mostly just a matter of accumulated error tracking with a given comparison tolerance
04:43.17starseekerwell, unless we need to decide which points with overlapping error bounds to regard as the same - that's where it gets iffy
04:43.42brlcadanother way to think of why boxes would be an issue is the effect it would cause on a point-collapse operation
04:43.59brlcadthe direction of approach between two points would actually affect their collapse
04:44.07brlcadyou want it direction invariant
04:44.15starseekertrue.
04:44.36starseekerI was assuming we were constrained by the realities of xyz 3d point storage
04:45.07brlcadnah, because we do actual distance calcs between the points
04:45.19starseekerwhat did you have in mind for a collapsing algorithm?
04:45.31starseekernearest point with overlapping error bounds?
04:45.31brlcadDIST_PT_PT() in vmath, for example
04:46.00brlcadwell naive first implementation, yes, but that's a very dumb clustering technique that will have problems
04:46.06starseekeragreed
04:46.21starseekermy second pass was largest shared error bound volume
04:46.45starseekerbut that also seems to have some weaknesses
04:47.10starseekerI was trying to find papers on techniques earlier today (should be in the scrollback, come to think of it)
04:47.13brlcadbasically if you have two points A and B that are near each other within the distance tolerance, there's an entire ellipsoid where they are within tolerance
04:47.34brlcadand conceivably, any value in there would suffice as a solution
04:47.53starseekerfor free points in space, that might do
04:47.56brlcadpicking A or B is usually the case, but that's actually on the surface of the ellipsoid instead of some mean/average/inner point
04:48.06starseekerI'm worried about things like the vertex of an arb8 though
04:48.20brlcadpicking anything *other* than A or B, though, is changing your inputs and can cause cascade failures
04:48.32brlcador accumulated error
04:48.37starseekerwhat about three points with one being overlapped by the other two but the other two mutually exclusive?
04:49.12starseekerand so on... n points means a lot of those sorts of possibilities
04:49.28brlcadyeah, that's the point drift problem
04:49.53brlcadA and B are within tol, B and C within tol, but not A and C .. so what happens
04:50.01starseekerexactly
04:50.11brlcadyou make a decision and that can cascade a failure
04:50.28starseekeras near as I can tell you have to pick one and say the other one is a no-go, unless you have something better <hopes>
04:50.55brlcadwhat you suggest is basically what nmg code does now
04:51.02starseekerwinces
04:51.15starseekerouch
04:52.42starseekeruncle - what's the better solution?
04:52.45brlcadit makes a decision on the first comparison A<>B and clamps B to A if within tol to maintain data integrity, then comparing C, determines it's outside bounds and rejects it
04:53.07brlcador determines it's within and clamps to A as well, etc
04:54.17starseekerwhat bounds is it comparing C to?  B and C shouldn't both be clamped to A, correct?
04:54.38brlcadokay, so there are a couple things that we can try, but not making promises that we'll actually solve it for all conditions .. garbage in will result in garbabe out
04:54.57brlcadit really depends on what the algorithm is attempting to accomplish
04:55.29brlcadit was comparing C to the same distance tolerance, A<>C
04:55.58starseekerso B and C WOULD end up the same point after clamping?
04:56.16brlcadall three at A or C rejected
04:56.32brlcadthat's just explaining basically what it presently does
04:56.40brlcadoversimplified
04:56.47starseekernods
04:57.08brlcadwhere it really fails, though, is that it doesn't know it clamped B to A
04:57.19starseekerblinks
04:57.43starseekeryeah, that could be a problem
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04:57.48brlcadtopologically, it may have been the actual case that B<>C was the right two to combine and A was just something close by
04:58.02brlcadand had the order of operations even changed, it would have worked out correct
04:59.07brlcadjeez, eva mendes is smokin'
04:59.25brlcadanyways
04:59.35brlcadso the idea is that we have to track the decision
04:59.45objorni want to enable opengl support, yes?
04:59.55brlcadobjorn: no, not necessary
05:00.11objornwhat's the benefit of using it?
05:00.12brlcaddoesn't affect anything to disable/enable it -- it'll use X11 routines
05:00.26starseekerarcher needs ogl, I think that's about it
05:00.29brlcadit's just what underlying protocol does it speak, doesn't actually change what features are provided
05:00.35brlcaddoesn't give you shaded displays, for example
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05:00.59starseekeractually, at present archer doesn't seem to display anything without ogl...
05:01.05objornhow do you enable it through configure? ./configure USE=opengl
05:01.08objorn:P
05:01.18objornseriously though, i'm not sure
05:01.23starseeker./configure --help
05:01.27objornthanks
05:02.24starseekerbrlcad:  is tracking the decision O(n^2) or worse?
05:02.53brlcadstarseeker: so to track the decision, the simplest way is to simply take the average of the two points and track the error volume
05:04.36objorn./configure --enable-OpenGL[=yes]
05:04.38objorn?
05:05.13starseeker--with-ogl
05:05.31objornthank you starseeker
05:05.47brlcadso with A<>B, it determines they're within tol, giving a resulting AB point (call it D) and the maximal error of that point (which after the first comparison is just the tolerance) .. then compares D using that error against C with the starting tolerance, resulting in a DC point, call it E
05:06.23starseekerok
05:06.46brlcadE's error is possibly going to be bigger than D's, error is accumulating as more points are combined
05:06.51starseekerdo we then check B and C for distance from E?
05:07.16brlcadso if you had a string of points within tolerance, they can actually all collapse with a resulting large error bounds
05:07.22starseekerright
05:07.41starseekerin the worst case, we go from a long line of points to one point with a huge error bound?
05:07.45brlcadbut it's kept track of that error and theoretically, nothing will be left out
05:07.50brlcadjust possibly too much brought in
05:08.11brlcadright, that should be the worst case I *think*
05:08.24brlcadnot realistic, but conceivable
05:09.39starseekerso if a ray passes within the error bound of the point, is it a hit?
05:10.01brlcadnow the trick is when we run into a future operation that results in topologically invalid geometry (non-manifold for example), we can actually back out a decision and try to find one that will result in valid geometry
05:11.05brlcadif we were to get really fancy, each decision becomes a new graph in a decision tree and we have a parametric decision tree
05:11.15brlcadbut that's fugly and expensive
05:11.22starseekernods
05:12.57starseekerbemusedly wonders if we can use metaballs to keep track of the error bound :-)
05:13.58starseekeralright, I should get some sleep here :-P
05:14.26starseekerback after regaining consciousness
05:15.15brlcadthere's actually a good argument for maintaining a fixed error
05:15.38brlcadand rejecting C if it's not within that D average point within error
05:15.51brlcadnot accumulating error
05:16.16brlcadbasically clamping error to some fixed magic tolerance slightly larger than the distance tolerance
05:23.38brlcad(like sqrt(distance tolerance))
05:24.07brlcadfor fractional tolerances of course
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05:33.38brlcadthe bigger issue is generally going to be that there are at least two main tolerances.. there's our absolute calculation tolerance for presumably what the hardware can handle, and a model tolerance, which is generally many orders of magnitude larger
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12:49.59brlcadyawns
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13:25.32madantloves waking up at 4 pm :)
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13:42.59brlcadmadant: heh, fantastic :)
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15:53.56``Erikhrm, *ponder* I  have 4 photographs of an object with different lighting angles, it'd be really gnarley if we had an app that attempted to generate a 3d .g file from those images (random thought)
15:54.22brlcad``Erik: put in for a dri :)
15:54.36``Erikhttp://www.math.ubc.ca/~cass/Euclid/ybc/ybc.html are the images in question
15:54.39brlcadthat's not far off from what I proposed a few years gack
15:56.27``Erikbabylonion geometric theory, pheer
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16:24.03brlcadwaves to madant
16:44.59madantwaves back
16:45.10``Erikdoes the wave, too
16:46.18madantall we need is a little resonance for an IRC disaster :)
16:48.14madantbrlcad: did u have a look at the draft ?
16:48.47brlcadmadant: briefly, reading in more detail later today
16:49.17brlcader, no -- yours was to the list, yes I did read that
16:49.50madantwill be back after dinner :)
16:53.03brlcadresounding comment to offer would be that I'd like you to emphasize achieving some actual user-visible integration/impact this summer, even if it means leaving some portions not quite resolved (like the grammar, or even portions of the solving framework)
16:59.46CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34123 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
16:59.46CIA-40BRL-CAD: annotate intent to add material objects, shader objects, and image objects to v5
16:59.46CIA-40BRL-CAD: as has been discussed and mused over the years. really need material objects
16:59.46CIA-40BRL-CAD: soon, which implies having shader objects even sooner. image objects can wait,
16:59.46CIA-40BRL-CAD: though.
17:01.05``Erikis kinda wishing he had a glidepad on his desktop :/
17:03.57madantbrlcad: true, i'd like for some visible integration myself :) Nothing helps further progress like a basic working system.
17:04.17madantand the actual issues will come up only when things are user-visible
17:05.08madantI think i could spend less time on the "perfect solver" and devote that time to user-interfacing
17:05.43madant``Erik, glidepad ?
17:07.18``Erikum, touchpad
17:07.44``Erikthe macbook is spoiling me with that bigassed glass beast
17:08.05``Erikhaving to actually push a mouse button down sucks :D
17:08.08``Erik</whine>
17:09.27madant``Erik, :P don't be too lazy :D
17:09.54madantdoesnt like the mouse at all
17:10.51madantthough engineering-wise pretty neat for its time :)
17:11.00``Erikwell, having to click a small 'next' button 68 times is a bitch, the mouse tends to want to move, on my lappie, I'd just tap and not think about the location of the pointer, making it a soft 'next' button of its own
17:11.10``Erikits time? you mean like '62? :D
17:11.58``Erik68, rather
17:12.14madantwas just now checking that
17:12.30``Erikdoug engelbart, though the trackball was '52
17:12.52madantwow 52 .. :D must have looked like a monster :)
17:13.30``Erikpicture doesn't make it look too bad, canadian 5-pin ball (which is about the size of a modern 'good' trackball)
17:13.37``Erikthere's a pic on the wikipedia article for meeces
17:14.37madantah well looks straight out of a science fiction b/w movie
17:15.27madant"cutting edge" has progressed a lot in 50 years :)
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17:40.32brlcadmadant: yeah, I think that'd be *really* good to focus on -- pick one user-visible goal for the project and then organize your activities around making that happen on the backend, only exactly what's needed for that feature
17:41.56brlcadlike you could make a 'validate' tool that calls the prep/constraint validation checks for a few primitives
17:42.45brlcador the ability inside mged to create a parametric equation object that talks to other objects and will evaluate
17:42.56brlcadsomething succint and visible
17:45.14``Erikwonders if dwaynes g_qa gui would be a good soc project?
17:45.17madantsounds logical , and very rigorously measurable too in terms of progress :)
17:46.12brlcad``Erik: yeah, absolutely
17:46.26brlcador better yet, a plugin in the new gui
17:46.34brlcadif said plugin underpinnings was in place
17:48.20madantg_qa gui ?
17:50.03brlcadyeah
17:50.42``Erikhttp://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2717388&group_id=105292&atid=640805
17:51.32madant``Erik, was reading that ;)
17:52.13``Erikof course, there's been discussion about that in person between a few different people that isn't reflected in the tracker yet :)
17:53.04``Eriklike storing plot files in the .g for easy resource mgmt/transfer. whether it's a seperate app, part of mged (or archer or whatever), or all of the above
17:53.08``Eriketc
17:53.47madantbrlcad: plugin underpinnings ?
17:57.38brlcadmadant: the thin-client gui is supposed to be a heavily plugin-based architecture (on the front-end and back-end)
17:58.18brlcadhm, that reminds m e
17:59.44madantaha, an extensible gui :) nice.. seems like brl-cad is going to look quite different in the coming days ;)
18:00.59brlcadmadant: that is all part of the plan, yes
18:01.21brlcadall in line with things spelled out here: http://brlcad.org/BRL-CAD_Priorities.png
18:01.31brlcadjust more of the details on how
18:05.33CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34124 10/brlcad/trunk/src/external/Makefile.am: aha, fix distcheck for when Cubit isn't being built
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18:12.09Malycehi ?
18:12.32MalyceI am new to IRC :P
18:13.39MalyceI had a couple of questions about the idea of implementing an API for BRL-CAD
18:14.30``Erikok?
18:15.05Malyceoh
18:15.15Malyceare you the admin ?
18:15.34``ErikI think I'm tagged as one of them O.o just ask your questions, they'll get answered (eventually)
18:15.59MalyceI was wondering whether there was some work already done in the direction.
18:16.15MalyceALso, what part of the code should I try to read, to get an understanding
18:16.20Malyce?
18:18.17MalyceI would think that creating an API would involve knowing the core aspects of the geometry engine of BRL
18:20.04MalyceIs the Doxy of the code unavailable ? It seems so from the website
18:20.59MalyceI had done some research on BRL last year. I was unable to find documentation for the code. Is it just me, or is documentation played down in the open source industry ?
18:27.50madantMalyce: Doxy is there but not very updated, depends on the part of brl-cad code you were looking up.
18:28.04madantdid u check out the svn and try building the doxygen output ?
18:28.34madant:) I am a last year gsoc participant and found brl-cad's code pretty well commented ;)
18:34.22MalyceI am trying it out now
18:34.38MalyceOk, but I wanted to look at a sort of overview, if you know what I mean
18:34.46Malycedoxy is so nice
18:47.48MalyceCan you point me to the Doxy config file ?
18:57.24``Erikmisc/Doxyfile
19:10.00brlcadhowdy Malyce
19:23.49Malycehiya
19:26.47brlcadMalyce: there is actually a lot of documentation, it's just not neatly organized and in lots of places
19:27.56brlcadthe code is pretty well commented throughout, but there is also this
19:27.56brlcadhttp://brlcad.sourceforge.net/doxygen/index.html
19:28.30brlcadwas last ran a couple years ago -- but the api of the libs hasn't really changed in a drastic way since then
19:28.37Malycethanks
19:28.42Malycemakes my life easier
19:28.49brlcadsomeone(tm) should get the doxygen system updating automatically on brlcad.org of course... :)
19:32.30MalyceI have some API experience
19:33.12Malycein that, I have been working as an RA to formalize Solidworks. I used the VBA API for SW
19:33.48MalyceBut, I have never developed an API. I do have C/C++ exp, 6 yrs plus of Uni and high school
19:34.02Malyceso, I was wondering whether I was qualified for the job.
19:34.40MalyceI don't really know where I would start, to design an API. Reading a lot of wikipedia right now.
19:36.11MalyceBut I assume, the basic premise is that the API is linked to the Geometry engine for the output to user, and for the input from the user, it feeds it back.
19:36.45MalyceSo, I should take a close look at the how the GUI interfaces with BRL, because that is the same interface that the API would use ?
19:37.30MalyceAny pointers, where this would be ?
19:39.30MalyceSo, one of the GUIs is MGED.
19:43.40MalyceThe GUI seems to be primitive. Is there a way to use BRL-CAD, command line ?
19:46.11CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34125 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/librender/cut.c: pointer wrangling.
19:58.16MalyceFound the cmd line in MGED. Is there a brief explanation of the BRL code structure somewhere. I can understand the doxygen, but I can't seem to get the overally structure of BRL. Am I being retarded ?
20:01.01MalyceAm I missing something obvious ?
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20:13.19MalyceFor example , where is the GUI initialisation done ?
20:13.35Malycein Libdm ?
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20:32.56CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03r_weiss * r34126 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): updates to rtarea adding center computations
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21:11.09brlcadMalyce: sorry for the delays, busy day :)
21:11.17brlcadgimme a sec and I"ll answer all the ?'s
21:11.33Malycenp
21:15.00``Erikdidn't know that poking a smoke detector with a measuring tape constituted 'busy' :D *duck*
21:16.17alex_joni``Erik: flaming measuring tape?
21:22.43``Erikmeasuring tapes wearing mesh shirts and cutoffs? O.o
21:25.48CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03r_weiss * r34127 10/brlcad/trunk/ (doc/docbook/system/man1/en/rtarea.xml src/rt/rtarea.1): updates to rtarea documentation
21:30.14*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@223.Red-83-49-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
21:44.03mafmhi there
21:44.51*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.129.255)
21:54.04*** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
22:15.17*** join/#brlcad ``Erik_ (i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
22:26.51brlcadhowdy mafm
22:27.01Ralithhullo mafm
22:27.44brlcadMalyce: an RA?  revenue assurance?
22:28.18mafm-       Cubit/g-sat.cxx
22:28.20mafm+       Cubit/g-sat.cpp
22:28.34mafm``Erik was ranting about cpp a few days ago.. :D
22:28.52brlcadhe rants about a lot of things
22:29.30*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.129.154)
22:30.30brlcadMalyce: as for overall structure, read volume I under docs on the website (the first doc link) for some basic philosophy, as well as HACKING file (near the middle is a description of the various dirs), and perhaps src/README for a little more detail
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22:31.31brlcadMalyce: depending on which API you're referring to, it actually has very little to do with the GUI -- more to do with the geometry engine
22:31.51brlcadthere's a project to build up a geometry API similar to the acis/granite/etc engines
22:33.14MalyceResearch Assistant
22:33.18brlcadif you want to work on the gui, there are a couple specific projects possible in that regard
22:33.18Malycesorry for the confusion
22:33.25brlcadahh, okay
22:33.50Malycenot really
22:33.57MalyceI wanted to work on the API
22:34.07MalyceI thought it would be interesting
22:34.10brlcad'the API' .. what does that mean to you?
22:34.21brlcadthere are many APIs in BRL-CAD
22:34.26brlcadthere are a dozen libraries
22:34.27objornwhat is the benchmark suite?
22:35.07brlcadobjorn: the benchmark suite is a toolchain that will evaluate your system performance and report a performance metric that very closely represents your expected computation capacity
22:35.50objorninteresting
22:36.00brlcadreports a statistical measurement (similar to GFLOPS but unrelated) of your performance that traces back through a couple decades of computing
22:36.00Ralithalso, verify render results with known-good images
22:36.07MalyceOOP Geometry API
22:36.26objornthis is useful for?
22:36.33brlcadyeah, it's also a verification / test suite
22:36.57MalyceDoes it mean, that I will be summarizing the existing interfaces into a bigger interface, which will be more standardized
22:36.57brlcadobjorn: to know how fast a machine is under real-world use
22:37.12brlcadMalyce: an, no -- not for the OOP Geometry API
22:37.29brlcadthe OOP geometry api is basically developing something like the ACIS engine for BRL-CAD
22:37.31objornah, so if there's a deadline, you'll have a good idea of how much more computer power you need or when to start
22:37.57``Erik*rantrantrant* :D
22:38.31brlcadwe presently have the extensive LIBRT library API which provides most geometry services but it's not very clean/organized, not OO, and lacking some features
22:38.38MalyceDoes it mean, that I will be summarizing the existing interfaces into a bigger interface, which will be more standardized ?
22:38.43brlcadobjorn: one possible use, sure
22:38.55brlcadobjorn: also very useful when buying new hardware
22:39.01Malyceso, the new API interface will just provide a nicer interface ?
22:39.18Malyceto an existing set of interfaces
22:39.55brlcadnew computer vender comes out with a new system, claims it'll be 5x faster than the previous version... this gives a very accurate unbiased measurement that makes it really easy to compare one machine to another under controllable conditions
22:40.07brlcadMalyce: on top of the existing set of interfaces, yet
22:40.10brlcads/yet/yes
22:40.48starseekermakes note to self to look at reorganizing the header files in include to be in subdirectories pertaining to individul libraries
22:40.53brlcadMalyce: have you ever worked with granite or acis?
22:41.04MalyceI have worked with the SW API only
22:41.06starseekerchecks if that is in the TODO...
22:42.06MalyceSW: Solidworks
22:42.34brlcadvery similar
22:42.59brlcadthere is a project already under way related to this api in the rt^3 module
22:43.10Malycethe API you want to implement should be similar to that used by Solidworks ?
22:43.34MalyceIf there is a project already underway, is it still possible for me to apply with this idea ?
22:44.07brlcadhttp://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/rt^3/trunk/src/
22:44.17CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34128 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: Add a note to look into reorganizing the headers so it is clearer which .h files pertain to individual libraries.
22:44.22brlcadMalyce: of course, just means you won't be working in isolation
22:44.28brlcadyou have to coordinate with the other developers
22:44.49MalyceSo, the specs have already been decided, and the structure has been set ?
22:44.51brlcaddoable, just have to work on the API and be involved in a lot of discussions
22:45.03brlcadnone of the gsoc projects are meant to be done by students alone :)
22:45.22brlcadsome of the structure is set, most is a work in progress that will continue to evolve
22:45.31MalyceAnd any new programmer, just has to follow the pattern already established. i.e, the programming method implemented so far ?
22:45.34MalyceI see
22:45.39brlcadthe engine has to take into accout, for example, what our existing libraries already do
22:45.47brlcadso that you can leverage those facilities
22:45.51brlcadand not reinvent the wheel
22:46.07brlcadwe don't want you to reimplement what has already been done
22:46.30brlcadit's more about making a clean API that can be grown and tested that we will want to use in our own tools
22:46.49*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
22:47.01brlcadcoreInterface and GeometryEngine are the two main efforts thusfar -- those two need to merge at some point
22:47.28MalyceWould it be possible for me to get the specs so far ?
22:47.47brlcadmost of what is available is on the wiki or on the website
22:47.57MalyceI will read through it
22:48.12brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Developer_Documents
22:48.22brlcad"BRL-CAD's core C++ interface" is one
22:48.56brlcad"Geometry Service" is another, closely related, but more focusing on something a layer above the C++ API
22:49.35brlcadand finally, more at http://brlcad.org/wiki/IBME_GeometryEngine
22:49.56brlcadthat core interface effort and the ibme ge work are the two that need to merge
22:52.12*** join/#brlcad cad85 (n=d4c92c1e@bz.bzflag.bz)
22:52.32cad85hello tanmay!
22:52.54cad85we know you are hereeee!!
22:53.22RalithO.o
22:53.32Malyce0.o
22:53.53brlcadcad85: who is tanmay?
22:53.59cad85if you are wondering what i am saying i am just greeting my friend
22:55.38cad85bye
22:55.41*** part/#brlcad cad85 (n=d4c92c1e@bz.bzflag.bz)
22:55.58Raliththat was odd.
22:56.07brlcadyep
22:56.42Malyceuh please ignore them
22:56.48``Erikhm, if'n ya GSOCers haven't put your proposal up on the goog site yet, do it soon
22:56.49Malycefriends playing a prank
22:57.07``Erikthey're trying to get estimates for how many proposals there will be (I believe you can edit them once you put them up)
22:57.30Ralithhas done so.
22:57.37``Erikralith++
22:57.37brlcad~ralith++
22:57.42brlcadfail!
22:57.45Ralith:D
22:57.49mafmERIK FAIL
22:57.59brlcadheh
22:58.03``Erikhas no interest in manipulating that steaming pile of bot
22:58.11``Erikjust making a general statement :)
22:59.06Ralithis there a list of who's mentoring somewhere?
22:59.54``Erikyeah
23:02.35*** join/#brlcad kanzure (i=bryan@66.112.232.233)
23:05.17CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1319 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: /* Mentors */ update list for the 2009 folks
23:06.43Ralithhehe
23:07.38*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177680193.dsl.bell.ca)
23:08.52MalyceWith regards to Geometry Services, why would you need a layer above C++ API ?
23:11.23brlcadit's a distributed network service interface
23:11.47brlcada way to bridge communication with other applications what want to remain loosely coupled
23:12.45brlcade.g., a java application that wanted to access brl-cad geometry, get display lists, shoot rays, but not have to maintain a JNI wrapper or be tied to binary distribution issues
23:13.43brlcador even in our own tool so that we can have a service talk to other geometry servers, allow distributed shared access to geometry, etc
23:16.44``Erikso is v6 going to keep the 'flat' namespace or move to an fs like heirarchal one?
23:19.20brlcadit'll be more like svn -- you talk over a protocol and something happens on the backend
23:19.55MalyceWill the Geometry API be expected to perform such tasks as well ?
23:20.03brlcadMalyce: not at all
23:22.55MalyceThanks a lot for your help. Goodnight.
23:28.23*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
23:44.33``Erikwe don't take kindly to folk who don't take kindly 'round here
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090401

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090401

00:05.24*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-76-57.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
00:07.10*** part/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-76-57.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
00:23.43CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03216.171.189.59 07http://brlcad.org * r1320 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: /* Aqua MGED on Mac OS X */ fix external link syntax
00:23.50*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
01:20.07yukonbobhttp://pastebin.ca/1378510
01:20.14yukonbob^--- another build issue
01:20.22yukonbob(hello, cadheads
01:20.23yukonbob)
01:21.03Ralithlooks like you're not linking to libstdc++
01:21.11Ralithbut isn't librt all C?
01:21.35yukonbobRalith: re: all C -- no idea.
01:22.25yukonbobre: libstdc++ agreed... (/me not a C++ person)...so I'm only one experiencing this, I guess...
01:22.39Ralithwhat're you trying to do?
01:22.52yukonbobjust ./autogen.sh, configure ,make
01:23.11yukonbobis SVN co
01:23.31yukonbob34122, fwiw
02:01.47mafmnight
02:13.33*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
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03:26.10brlcadRalith: librt's api is all C, but some of the implementation details involve a C++ library (openNURBS)
03:26.25brlcadso you end up needing libc++
03:26.27Ralithah, right
03:26.42Ralithwhat was wrong with yukonbob's setup?
03:29.02brlcadthe test for libc++ probably failed
03:29.30brlcadit's trying to link the 'comb' program there
03:29.42brlcadcomb only uses librt.la and it's dependent RT_LIBS
03:29.53brlcadRT_LIBS="${BN} ${BN_LIBS} ${BU} ${BU_LIBS} ${REGEX} ${LIBM} ${SYSV} ${OPENNURBS}"
03:30.10brlcadOPENNURBS='${top_builddir}/src/other/openNURBS/libopenNURBS.la ${LIBSTDCXX}'
03:30.42brlcadso my guess is he actually doesn't have a libstdc++
03:31.16brlcadconfigure should probably warn very verbosely if that happens, just pretty rare
03:31.32brlcadbut it's also rather compiler-dependent
03:34.26RalithI can't imagine a system not having libstdc++ O.o
03:35.36brlcadnote to students that haven't posted their app yet, you're supposed to submit what you have, whatever you have ASAP so they can get a headcount
03:36.39pacman87takes note
03:42.14Ralithwhich they is this?
03:42.16Ralithgoogle?
03:42.23brlcadyes
03:42.40brlcadthey're trying to decide whether to extend the deadline or not
03:42.44Ralithah.
03:42.53brlcadwhich I suppose should mean don't submit it if you want them to extend it :)
03:43.01Ralithheh
03:43.09pacman87does BRL-CAD have a generalized nth order equation solver?
03:43.42brlcadpacman87: generalized, but the maximum n is compile-time limited
03:44.02brlcadnot sure how stable it is at higher orders
03:44.31pacman87ah.  i was trying to see how to gracefully degrade for higher-order splines that didn't have analytical solutions
03:45.29brlcadrt_poly_roots()
03:45.38brlcadsee src/util/roots_example.c
03:47.12brlcadran a performance analysis last year and was shocked to find that we outperform almost everyone, just a couple obscure solvers that came within 10%
03:48.13pacman87my revolve approach collapses the 3d intersection to 2d by converting the ray line into a hyperbola
03:48.23pacman87so i'd intersect the spline with a hyperbola
03:48.31yukonbobwaves to pacman87
03:48.36yukonbobwaves to brlcad
03:48.37pacman87waves back
03:48.54yukonbobwaves to anybody within raytracing distance
03:49.19pacman87activates a cloak and returns zero-length hit segments :P
03:49.27brlcadgiven raytracing uses infinite rays, wouldn't that be everyone? :)
03:49.43yukonbobthey could be obscured, I was thinking.
03:50.05yukonbobshould know better than to bastardize tech. with a bunch of ubernerds
03:50.26yukonbobrays are bounded by #brlcad
03:50.27yukonbob;)
03:50.43brlcadplus we're one of the few raytracers that be default evaluates all points on the ray, not just first hit like most
03:51.04brlcadfor analysis and solid modeling purposes ;)
03:51.13yukonbobgo figure!
03:51.56yukonbobreads scrollback to see if other comments on latest pastebin...
03:52.18yukonbobsees comments
03:52.47brlcadpacman87: what kind of spline?
03:53.10pacman87the 2-d spline from the sketch primitive
03:55.08yukonbob/usr/lib/libstdc++.a
03:55.09yukonbob/usr/lib/libstdc++.so
03:55.09yukonbob/usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6
03:55.09yukonbob/usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6.0
03:55.09yukonbob/usr/lib/libstdc++_p.a
03:55.11yukonbob/usr/lib/libstdc++_pic.a
03:55.19yukonbob^-- from "locate"
03:55.54yukonbobis there such a think as libc++?
03:56.40*** join/#brlcad schwinn434 (n=schwinn4@75.81.198.192)
04:00.27*** join/#brlcad AlexandreGuedes (n=chatzill@189-92-143-241.3g.claro.net.br)
04:00.29brlcadyukonbob: no, those are it
04:00.41brlcadso what did configure report for the libstdc++ test?
04:00.49brlcadit's int he config.log and/or in your configure output
04:02.04brlcadpacman87: no, I mean what order and type
04:02.16AlexandreGuedesHello
04:02.19brlcadb-spline? nurbs curve, bezier?
04:02.37brlcadnth order, limited to 4th order?
04:02.43brlcadhowdy AlexandreGuedes
04:04.20*** join/#brlcad AlexandreGuedes_ (n=chatzill@189-92-142-217.3g.claro.net.br)
04:05.11AlexandreGuedes_brlcad: I would like to know if develop importers and exporters would be important
04:05.30brlcadAlexandreGuedes_: importers and exporters are always cool to have
04:05.36yukonbobbrlcad: will rebuild and check.
04:05.49brlcadespecially if it's a format you're pretty familiar with
04:06.08brlcador if it's just a really important importer that we don't have or need improved
04:06.31pacman87brlcad: since the hyperbola of the converted ray is second order, i had started last year with a limit of 2nd order splines
04:06.50AlexandreGuedes_I already developed some importers for opengl
04:07.53brlcadpacman87: it's perhaps worth noting that there are specific spline solvers within the code as well (though not in as pretty polynomial form)
04:08.10brlcadbut 2nd order should be perfectly fine for the general solver
04:08.20RalithAlexandreGuedes_: what formats might you work with?
04:08.23AlexandreGuedes_brlcad: My it doubts was if that is really important
04:08.34AlexandreGuedes_obj and vrml
04:08.42Ralithpretty sure we already have vrml
04:09.23AlexandreGuedes_but i can develop othres
04:09.27brlcadAlexandreGuedes_: those are two pretty popular formats, would be very useful to have .. would have to have a plan for what would happen if you finish early though
04:09.28AlexandreGuedes_others
04:09.56brlcadRalith: there are exporters for both of those but neither has an importer
04:09.59Ralithahh.
04:10.11brlcadsurprisingly enough .. the importer is actually even easier
04:10.18AlexandreGuedes_I could develop how many I get
04:11.06AlexandreGuedes_after i can get Global illumination renderer
04:11.16AlexandreGuedes_if i have tiem
04:11.20brlcadI'd expect those two importers would really only take a week or so each actually, maybe even just a few days each .. depends on how extensive you get into the obj format
04:11.23AlexandreGuedes_time*
04:12.03brlcadtheir exporters are more involved
04:12.13brlcadmm.. global illum would be awesome
04:12.16AlexandreGuedes_hmmm
04:12.29brlcadAlexandreGuedes_: have you worked on global illumination and rendering before?
04:13.45brlcadAlexandreGuedes_: I would suggest if you can make the time, to submit two applications just so you have a better chance of getting selected on your abilities more than the priority of what it is you're proposing to work on
04:13.50AlexandreGuedes_little
04:14.41brlcadbut yeah, those sound like great areas to be proposed
04:14.44brlcadeither or both
04:14.49AlexandreGuedes_i like use openGL and C there is other intersting idea ?
04:15.01brlcadwouldn't mixt the global illum on the same proposal though
04:15.44AlexandreGuedes_ok.
04:16.14brlcadthere's an entire opengl GUI project, but that will likely be pretty competitive
04:16.41brlcadyou could always propose your own project as well
04:18.01Raliththere's that -> OpenGL/C interactive program exporter
04:18.10Raliththat'd be pretty cool
04:18.28AlexandreGuedes_how interactive  ??
04:18.50brlcadRalith: oh you mean on the orange ideas page?
04:18.53Ralithyeah
04:19.00brlcadright
04:19.05brlcadAlexandreGuedes_: it's another exporter idea
04:19.08brlcadsee, http://brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html
04:19.15RalithAlexandreGuedes_: free camera movement/zoom would probably cover it fine.
04:19.24Ralithalong with some way to select what region(s) to show
04:19.46brlcadhaving an exporter/importer that dumps out opengl code (display lists, direct mode calls, retained mode, etc)
04:19.57Ralithoh, that kind of thing!
04:20.00Raliththat works too.
04:20.18Ralithof course, you'd have to tesselate everything first and I'm not sure how easy that is w/o the brep stuff finished yet.
04:20.38AlexandreGuedes_i can figure out
04:20.56brlcadRalith: not necessarily
04:21.01Ralithoh?
04:21.04brlcadglu has some primitives
04:21.19brlcadhas nurbs surfaces, for example
04:21.26Ralithyeah, but you can't subtract/intersect them, can you?
04:21.27brlcadand various quadrics
04:22.12RalithI guess you could just tesselate the regions that involved subtraction/intersection, or even just the relevant sets of primitives
04:22.14brlcadno, you'd still have to have evaluated CSG, just wouldn't necessarily need to tessellate or sample
04:22.49Ralither, how do you manage, then?
04:23.07brlcadAlexandreGuedes_: I like the idea for converters, do apply :)
04:23.22AlexandreGuedes_hum..
04:23.24brlcadbut do plan/mention for more than those two
04:23.44AlexandreGuedes_i'll offer something
04:23.50brlcadand them maybe a non-converter backup in an area that interests you
04:24.00brlcadcool
04:24.22AlexandreGuedes_<PROTECTED>
04:24.35AlexandreGuedes_if i have*
04:25.27pacman87AlexandreGuedes_: submit it early and get feedback - you can update it until the deadline
04:25.47pacman87should follow that advice, too
04:26.04brlcadAlexandreGuedes_: absolutely, and what pacman87 said :)
04:26.33Ralithoh yeah that reminds me
04:26.40AlexandreGuedes_thanks a lot
04:26.48RalithI'm going to be on a bit less (not completely gone, though) until monday
04:27.05AlexandreGuedes_last question... There is already much submissions ?
04:27.46AlexandreGuedes_many submissions ***
04:27.51brlcadand for anyone that's wondering/working/waiting, don't let not having a patch stop you from submitting your proposal -- there's time after the deadline
04:28.07brlcadAlexandreGuedes_: no, submissions are way down this year .. so you're chances are pretty good
04:28.49brlcadalso, the more detail in your proposal, the better .. that's the biggest problem with most proposals
04:28.54brlcadnot enough detail/information
04:29.12brlcadsay how, what, why, when, where.. ;)
04:29.37AlexandreGuedes_ok no detail
04:29.58brlcadheh
04:30.19AlexandreGuedes_where are you from ?
04:30.48pacman87UT Austin
04:30.48brlcadPanama
04:31.16brlcadlives in Maryland USA
04:32.05AlexandreGuedes_I'm from Brazil..
04:32.17brlcadyour IP is a give-away
04:32.59AlexandreGuedes_my ?
04:33.11brlcadyeah, brazil ip/dns
04:36.02AlexandreGuedes_And about most of others  brl-cad developers...
04:36.48brlcadAlexandreGuedes_: all over -- usa, germany, portugal, india, netherlands, and spain come to mind
04:37.25brlcadwanders off to nap before his morning row in four hours
04:37.44brlcadlaments
04:38.11Ralitha whole four hours?
04:38.15Ralithyou're killing yourself, you know.
04:38.48pacman87brlcad doesn't need sleep, he just takes naps every few days
04:38.49brlcadI know, saddens the soul
04:40.02brlcadneed some rest before the really hard workout though.. or it can be a painful row
04:40.03brlcadwaves
04:41.54AlexandreGuedes_April Fool's Day
04:42.32AlexandreGuedes_In Brazil is already
04:43.58AlexandreGuedes_there is april fool's day in USA ?
04:44.21pacman87yes
04:44.56starseekerlaments the "All news sites will be annoying for a day" day
04:45.33starseekeralthough it is morbidly amusing to see slashdot's standards for news actually drop - hard to believe it's possible :-P
04:50.31Ralithslashdot? Lower its standards?
04:50.33RalithMadness!
05:11.00yukonbobchecking whether the Standard C++ library is available... no
05:11.10yukonbob^---... but no "loud complaints"
05:33.59Ralithweird.
06:02.03yukonbobwill review tmorrow
06:02.11yukonbobfor now, zeeeeeeeeeee
06:02.40pacman87goodnight
06:02.53pacman87still has 200 pages of gov to read for the test thurs
06:12.00AlexandreGuedes_good night
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08:42.33brlcadyawns
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10:01.41mafmhi pplz
10:02.24brlcadhowdy mafm
10:03.46mafmmmm, it's too early, go back to bed brlcad!
10:03.48mafm:P
10:03.53brlcadheh
10:07.53Ralithhey mafm
10:07.56Ralithbrlcad doesn't have a bed
10:08.01Ralithhe just slumps over on his desk now and then
10:09.12brlcadback in my younger days, I could just lay down right on the floor, however hard/cold, wherever I was at and have a perfectly good couple-hour nap
10:09.45mafmoh, I see... so that's the backspace key stamped in his forehead... :)
10:11.06mafmhmm, so the number of proposals for gsoc is that low, really?
10:11.20mafm(I mean in general, not only in brl-cad)
10:11.28Ralithshh, don't tell anyone
10:11.31RalithI like my good odds :]
10:11.34brlcad:)
10:11.44_sushi_brlcad: what do you call younger days?
10:11.47hippieindamakin8mafm, many like me are still working on them :)
10:11.54hippieindamakin8_many_
10:12.18Ralithmany?
10:12.52brlcad_sushi_: days before today
10:13.01_sushi_I turned 30 recently
10:13.05_sushi_I feel like middle aged
10:13.07Ralithhippieindamakin8: whatchya planning on applying for?
10:13.10_sushi_I am already training the coffin jump
10:13.25mafmhippieindamakin8: well, deadline is in a couple of days :)
10:13.47_sushi_I didn't manage to get a relationship before 30
10:14.02_sushi_But with a lot of hard work I at least managed to get sex before 30! Wohoo! I made it!
10:14.02Ralithaw.
10:14.06Ralithhehe
10:14.14hippieindamakin8Ralith, mafm i am applying for the brep evaluation
10:14.18_sushi_Lot of brute force sifting through the population helped
10:14.19Ralithoo, cool!
10:14.23Ralithbest of luck to you!
10:14.26Raliththat stuff needs doing.
10:14.37_sushi_brlcad: how old are you now?
10:14.47mafm_sushi_: congrats!
10:14.50_sushi_brlcad: do you have kidneys like bricks now from sleeping on cold floor?
10:14.51_sushi_mafm: thanks
10:15.06hippieindamakin8Ralith, i am going through some research papers. Busy schedule at school is making it really difficult for me to concentrate here :(
10:15.08brlcadnope
10:15.30Ralithhippieindamakin8: just don't hestitate to submit a draft app early.
10:15.36Ralithyou can always revise.
10:15.41hippieindamakin8Ralith, sure :)
10:15.54brlcadmostly just back pain from having too much bad posture, accumulated over time -- only reason floor-sleeping isn't so satisfying now
10:16.23RalithI can only floorsleep and such when I'm really short on rest
10:16.27Ralithand I'm pretty young
10:17.04brlcadcongratulates _sushi_ for getting his cherry popped before 30. heh.
10:17.07Ralithguess that comes from having a bed right next to my workstation
10:17.14_sushi_lol
10:17.24_sushi_I am sure there are nerds who get even worse rate than 30 years
10:17.33mafmbrlcad: odd, I have a hairdresser friend who lies in the floor after work, her backache is relieved
10:17.36Ralithdid RMS ever get laid?
10:18.09_sushi_RMS might profit from a gym
10:18.13brlcadmafm: hopefully not at the office.. lot of hair on the floor :)
10:18.34mafmRalith: he did AFAIK, at least he had a mexican girlfriend a while ago (that's why he learned spanish)
10:18.50_sushi_oh
10:18.55_sushi_I hope he didn't manage that before 30
10:19.00_sushi_because then I would feel really asocial
10:19.03Ralithlol
10:19.06_sushi_Girlfriend!
10:19.11_sushi_I didn't even get into that level.
10:19.14_sushi_What's the cheat code?
10:19.28mafmbrlcad: I guess that he does it privately, but I'm not so intimate friend as to ask some of the related questions :)
10:19.28_sushi_iddbf?
10:19.52mafmwell, stallman must be in his fifties or older now
10:19.57_sushi_OK good
10:20.06_sushi_there are still people who are more asocial than me
10:20.07Ralithconsidering he was in college in the 80s, right?
10:20.22brlcadhe's 56
10:20.25mafmhe was already at mit ai lab in the late 70s I think
10:20.34Ralithoh, right
10:20.49hippieindamakin8=> RMS might have been a hippie too :P
10:20.56RalithI'm always disconcerted when I hear about AI research that long ago
10:21.06RalithI generally think of computer research as stuff that gets worked out pretty quick
10:21.31_sushi_hippieindamakin8: I guess he still looks like one
10:21.42mafmLinus met his wife teaching inet to non-it ppl at univ, telling her to write him email for practicing (nice trick, that)
10:21.47brlcadRalith: it often is .. then there are research papers for three decades afterwards that all claim to have done it again for the first time ;)
10:22.03Ralithlol
10:22.15Ralithreminds me of something I've noticed
10:22.49Ralithhaving toyed with graphics programming some, I've noticed that it usually takes 5+ years for something somebody successfully demonstrated in a thesis to actually be implemented in a commercial game
10:22.53mafmmost of the work in mit ai lab by that time was to create OSs and lisp machines, I think :)
10:23.14brlcadmuch of it is solved, but limited by cpu power .. so as the chips get faster, old ideas that were completely impractical become entirely practical and implementable
10:24.49brlcadRalith: that's about the general trend I often see too, similar to how the emerging technology that is showcased at siggraph .. often becomes commercial commonplace about 3-6 years after if it's a hot topic
10:25.07mafmIIRC (from Free as in Freedom book and similar resources), Stallman stallet to get mad at software practices when ppl took stuff out of mit to implement LISP machines commercially
10:25.49mafmhe started to copy and reimplement the new features like crazy so that mit versions were equally capable as commercial versions
10:25.54hippieindamakin8Ralith,  but rt now with the GPUs in the market, the implementation would be smooth
10:26.01brlcadlike seeing epaper five years ago at siggraph, and this past year seeing it become reality with amazon's kindle in 2007
10:26.05Ralithbrlcad: that seems really long, even considering the devtime of a big project
10:26.07hippieindamakin8rather awesome GPUs
10:26.15Ralithhippieindamakin8: I dunno about this whole raytracing thing.
10:26.50Ralithit amounts to using slower techniques for less appealing visuals
10:26.54_sushi_self-pities
10:27.13mafmsaw the same in grid technologies... in example cloud computing, already present in some congresses years ago, like the Amazon guy
10:28.27Ralithcloud computing is just silly.
10:28.29brlcadRalith: the technique becomes faster than the raster approaches as soon as you turn "all" the features on
10:28.30hippieindamakin8Ralith, doesnt that imply that faster computation = better visuals
10:28.34RalithI, for one, will not give up control over my system.
10:28.46Ralithhippieindamakin8: but we already *have* great visuals.,
10:28.51Ralithno reason to sacrifice them.
10:29.15brlcadthat is, to get the same picture, all the hacks and hoops you end up needing disappear with a much more simple algorithm
10:29.50mafmRalith: it's more practical for startups demanding big storage or processing growing by the hour, think of flick-like sites when starting
10:29.51Ralithbrlcad: for practical purposes, though, it's still much slower.
10:29.59Ralitheventually, when power is moot, sure
10:30.01brlcadfor current purposes
10:30.02Ralithnot now.
10:30.22Ralithmafm: for hosting a website or something, sure
10:30.32brlcadthe only reason it's even being talked about is because at the high end of the spectrum, it's starting to get close
10:30.33mafmflickr, or whatever the spelling :)
10:30.56brlcadthe cost of a superbly complex raster system with great visuals, something like the complexity of the crysis engine
10:31.14brlcadstarts approaching the cost of advanced ray-tracing that gives equivalent results
10:31.24mafmthey're trying to lure scientists to use clouds too... but transferring multi-GB datasets back and forth for processing for a few hours it's not very nice :D
10:32.00mafmbut the personal computing, a la windows7, I think that it's a bit of non-sense right now (and I also don't like where all of this is heading)
10:32.24RalithI wouldn't be too concerned; MS certainly won't keep its marketshare forever.
10:32.51Ralithand so far nobody's tried hardware lockin to a particular system, beyond the issues of driver support which are lessening these days.
10:34.19brlcadRalith: speaking of seeing things in research that deploy 5 or so years later -- that's been the raging research competition between the powerhouses, the likes of Intel and NVIDIA, and all the chest thumping about who can do ray-tracing better/faster
10:34.34brlcadbecause it's expected that tipping point will happen within a couple years
10:34.34Ralithreally? nVidia's getting in on that?
10:34.38RalithI thought it was mostly intel
10:34.56brlcadoh yeah, nvidia's been right there in the research
10:35.13Ralithhm.
10:35.22Ralithwell, I'll be interested to see what results
10:35.26brlcadhad a massive session at siggraph just last year showcasing their implementation of ray-tracing on the gpu in response to intel's massive demo of larrabe
10:35.40brlcadit's been going back and forth
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10:38.16hippieindamakin8has seen the examples of ray tracing on Nvidia CUDA machines and can say that they were beyond brilliant
10:38.20Ralithwhat interests me about larrabee is (if I understand it correctly) the freedom from API it offers.
10:38.48RalithI imagine we'll see all sorts of things when people are no longer limited to what's defined in a spec like that
10:39.19mafmRalith: a gsoc idea you might be interested in ;) : Amazon EC2 AMI Images and tools: create official Debian images and tools for the Amazon EC2 cloud-computing environment
10:39.43hippieindamakin8Ralith, CUDA is also very good in that respect
10:40.01Ralithhippieindamakin8: eh, it'll be a while before nvidia's hardware is truly general-purpose-ified
10:40.12Ralithoh there's an idea
10:40.20Ralithbrlcad: has anyone considered porting librt to CUDA?
10:40.32brlcad"porting" it? heh
10:40.33Ralithor bits thereof, at least?
10:40.36hippieindamakin8i can consider that :)
10:40.39Ralithisn't sure what would be involved
10:41.36brlcadthere's ways cuda could be leveraged -- it'd take a fair bit of structuring but could be leveraged at the primitive level fairly decently
10:42.19Raliththen again, I suppose librt's pretty damn fast anyway
10:42.29Ralithso not much need.
10:42.37brlcadwould have to improve support for ray-bundling, and reimplement most of the complex prep() and shot() routines for most primtives to be vectorized
10:43.09Ralithwouldn't that much be of benefit anyway on modern CPUs?
10:43.44mafmbtw, isn't there any plan for multi-threading? it's beeing a trend in the last few years for most projects
10:44.05brlcadnah, you could certainly increase the performance of even librt using it -- but you'd also get just as much benefit from working on things like ray bundling, cacheline fitted data structures, cache coherent structure access, and vectorized ray evaluation
10:44.34Ralithraytracing is very parallelizable, I believe.
10:44.41brlcadshould give an increase on optical image rendering on the order of around 2x-20x if you did *everything*
10:44.57Ralithbut I'm not really convinced that there's much point
10:45.02brlcadof course it's parallelizable, brl-cad's rt was the first to show that :)
10:45.08Ralithhehe
10:45.12RalithI mean, if I can render havok in under a minute on consumer hardware
10:45.16``Erikobscenely parallel, every primary could be its own thread
10:45.44``Erikparallel prep would be awesome, though
10:45.53Raliththen again, I don't have a very good idea of what normal model complexity tends to be
10:46.03brlcadRalith: it's the difference between taking 30 seconds and potentially 2 frames per second interactive
10:46.12``Erikhas working geometry that takes about 60 seconds to prep and 30 to raytrace :(
10:46.59Raliththat's a lot of prep
10:47.11Ralithbrlcad: fair, and I suppose in not too long it'll be even closer to raeltime.
10:47.20Ralithrealtime*
10:47.45brlcadit makes a lot of existing models realtime
10:48.39brlcadthe adrt stuff that erik has been working on does much of the tricks for polygonal models, gets a decent performance boost that allows for realtime raytraced interaction
10:48.43Ralithrealtime librt would be neat.
10:49.05brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas#CSG_ray-trace_optimizations
10:49.37brlcadif all done, those would likely result in massive performance boosts, order of magnitude sorts
10:49.46Ralithdamn.
10:50.11brlcadexploiting cache coherency, branch minimization, data vectorization, accelerated spacial partitioning, and other optimization techniques
10:50.34``Erikos/embedded/criticalsystems geeks would argue that you mean interactive, not realtime :)
10:51.11Ralith:P
10:51.25Ralithos/embedded/criticalsystems geeks don't do much raytracing.
10:51.37``Erikerm, you might be surprised
10:51.45Ralithhm?
10:52.05mafmthey raytrace models of lara croft in their basements!
10:52.28``Erika lot of raytracing has nothing to do with generating images :)
10:52.43mafmsoft realtime is ok for multi-media
10:53.03Ralith``Erik: that's why I said *much*
10:53.06Ralithrather than any.
10:53.52mafmah, they might use some of it for physics?
10:55.06Ralithraytracing for physics?
10:55.08Ralithnever heard of that.
10:55.15Ralithfor that matter, physics in realtime?
10:55.30Ralith(that is, technical realtime, rather than interactive)
10:55.36mafmI mean representations of models from data gathered by radar-like devices and such, automatic control of vehicles (mars robots)
10:56.11mafmI don't know if some techniques related to raytracing could be used for that
10:56.15``ErikO.o so you've never heard of things like collision detection systems, combat HUDs, flight control systems, etc, ralith?
10:56.34Ralith``Erik: never imagined that that sort of thing used raytracing.
10:56.35Ralithtmyk!
10:57.06Raliththinks HUDs are awesome and should be everywhere.
10:57.21``ErikI d'no the guts, I do know that there's often raytracing to do physics and ai bits in ogl and d3d games
10:57.22Ralithaugmented reality ftw.
10:57.29Ralithwell, that's not 'realtime'
10:58.00``Erikso I coudl imagine 'real life' systems (or high end simulators) doing the same
10:58.47Ralithbut... that's still not realtime systems, is it?
11:01.07mafmI can see many situations where that's useful
11:01.15mafmor will be exploited
11:01.27``Erik*shrug* I d'no, I can imagine a fair numberof scenarios where time guarantees on raytracing could be handy
11:04.01RalithI dunno if it's used like that currently, though.
11:04.02mafmthink of rendering a scene with objects in the foreground with transparency showing objects in the background visible
11:04.02mafmkind of Terminator :)
11:04.02Ralithlike I said.
11:04.02RalithWe need HUDs EVERYWHERE.
11:04.02``Erik(and I'm a bit of an OS geek and have done simple embedded programming before, so a bit sensitive on people propogating blizzards word abuse)
11:04.02Ralith:D
11:04.02``Erik</rant> :D
11:04.25``Erikmost of my personal projects right now fall into the soft realtime need, and that's just cheezy web crap
11:04.26mafm:D
11:04.47mafmhates cheezy web :(
11:05.15``Erikbut it's good cheese! real cheese, not processed cheese
11:05.41Ralithyum!
11:05.44``Erikthat'sa gouda cheesa!
11:07.46mafmlol
11:07.50``Erikback to librt speed improvements, there's been discussion on replacing src/librt/primitive/bot/* with src/adrt/libtie/* stuff for the speed boost, but making libties tricks ubiquitous through librt would be awesome
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11:09.27``Erikpostage stamp bundling, cache coherency, improved scene partition (I'll bring up my old argument that tree based approaches have necessary slow warts, a graph with neighbor awareness (see portal/sector stuff) would be preferable)
11:09.55``Erikportable vectorization with fallback for cpu's lacking simd instructions
11:10.32``Erikmaking prep way faster would be awesome, too
11:11.53Ralithwell, I'm heading to bed in preparation for a long flight tomorrow.
11:12.09RalithI guess I'll assume the fact that I haven't gotten any proposal feedback yet a good thing?
11:12.29brlcadyep
11:12.34Ralith:)
11:12.40``Erikand you can render havoc pretty fast on consumer hardware... if you're doing a low resolution and low quality rendering.
11:12.52Ralithtrue, true
11:13.11``Eriktry doing a poster grade render :) now try doing it with photon mapping (or mlt if someone pics it up)
11:13.28RalithI'll leave that one running overnight.
11:13.42``Erikposter grade with simple phong was around 24 hours an image on high end gear
11:13.42Ralithluckily, I don't generally need poster-grade renders to model >_>
11:14.31``Erikwhen ya need 14 images in 2 days, ... I was scrounging machines for that :)
11:15.06``Erikand I had to post-process the images because they came out a little too dark and I didn't have the time to re-render them :(
11:15.20``Erikso, yeah, there's a point :)
11:15.30mafm"night" Ralith :D
11:15.35Ralithnight!
11:16.08``Erikhave a good flight :)
11:19.47Raliththanks
11:26.35madantbrlcad: :) for user-accessibility should i think about modifications in mged or integration with libged ?
11:26.59madantand how woudl it fit into the new gui plan
11:30.54madanti feel like sticking to the capability to make a constraint object within mged sounds good
11:31.43madantand then a user command like solve(constr.1) or something similar
11:32.20madantwhich would evaluate , display solution space / update geometry
11:33.38CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Erik 07http://brlcad.org * r1321 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: add g_qa feature request
11:37.04d-loMornin all!
11:43.41``Eriksilence, maggot!
11:43.44``ErikI mean, uh, hey
11:44.13d-loYou going on the YUMMY E39 party crash?
11:44.31``Erikwith what? I blew my load on slz
11:44.54d-lowishes there could be asset transfers in the game :/
11:45.03``Erikheh, indeed
11:45.21d-lo...would totaly ruin the game balance, but would be cool for a little while :)
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11:46.07``Erikhttp://www.collegehumor.com/video:1905754 heh
11:51.25mafmhi d-lo
11:51.41d-lohowdy mafm
11:52.03mafmit seems that LHC finally made it: "I can confirm that, yes, the first stages of the experiment resulted in the appearance of a miniscule black hole," said the spokesperson to gathered reporters on Monday. "The black hole is being kept under quarantine and our scientists have been monitoring its progression," he explained. --http://www.thetechherald.com/article.php/200914/3354/
11:52.18mafmso you were right d-lo :P
11:52.57d-lo``Erik: Do you know whats up with Hellbent?  Profile shows inactive 74 days...
11:53.01mafmI'd say, bring Ballmer to throw a few chairs at it to tame it down :)
11:54.05d-loHrm, if I had to pick... I dunno which I would go for:  Obliteration via Nuclear war, or sucked into a Black Hole that started in Europe.... :/
11:54.59d-lolol: "Many had bitterly said the consequences could be as extreme as the Earth being sucked into the black hole the LHC collisions may create as a side effect of the experiment. Others claimed time travellers with more sophisticated technology than ours could make use of the hole to invade the Earth and enslave mankind."
11:55.05d-loToo many scifi movies...
11:58.19mafm:D
11:58.34mafmthe bad thing is that many ppl will believe this news :|
11:58.54``Erik... I hate april 1st
11:59.02``Erikno, d-lo, no clue :/
11:59.23mafmlet's hope scientology church take it seriously and immolate themselves :P :)
11:59.59``Erikno, they'd just buy a lot of DC-9's and fly to another planet with volcanos
12:00.11``Erikwould donate $10 to help them get to venus D:
12:00.12``Erik:D
12:00.48``Erik('cept beck, he can stay)
12:00.58mafmwould double that!
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12:06.11MaloeranAhah, neat article mafm
12:07.31d-lo``Erik: got any 'cyclers built yet?
12:28.44mafm:)
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13:04.26d-lo``Erik: E37:73:06:31
13:05.52``Erikaight, putting together a maid service
13:06.09``Erikmight take a couple hours, I tend to be up in the northern part
13:07.15``Erik1:10 to get the 74 jg, 5 minutes to hop over to that astro
13:08.55d-loyeah, I have most of your astros bookmarked so they show up on the Map ;)
13:09.05``Erikpheer O.o
13:09.09``Erikjotes
13:09.16``Erikjots down a note... "don't piss dave off"
13:10.42d-lo....hrmm... no fleet, most locations known..... hrm.... *EVIL LAUGH*
13:10.58d-lo=D
13:11.17``Erikhm, yes, 15 prings, 15 pshields, 3-4 dn's, and a fighter cloud on each, definitely soft targets :D
13:11.29``Erikno MOBILE fleet
13:11.53d-loTrue. true.  but how dangerous is a person who just doesn't care about fleet anymore? ;)
13:11.54``Erikyoda is slz gm now, btw
13:12.16d-lo...wha?  aren't we at war with slz?
13:12.33``Erikunofficially
13:12.54d-lowhy that little green shit. lol
13:12.58``Erikmore of a "damnit, we're not farms, and you're warring on a madp"
13:13.17``Erikunfortunately, he has intel on our strongholds :(
13:13.30``Erikthough I think he was like 32 or 33
13:13.58``Erikmebbe he'll get them to back off of fng *shrug* who knows
13:14.36``Erikthat crash eliminated over 1/3 of slzs total fleet, mostly of their higher level members, so they're not exactly a huge threat
13:14.37d-lowell, "personal vendettas" can be really fun ;)
13:16.34``Erikooh, you've been called out on your hit, ya didn't post br
13:17.54d-lo*shrug*  I'll get to it ;)
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13:56.45brlcadmadant: either really -- a libged modification is an mged modification -- it adds a new command
13:57.58madantwas thinking whether a menu option would be nice.. but i guess a functioing command interface is a more important target :)
13:58.50madantneeds to seriously go through libged after months of stalling
14:02.51brlcadlibged is easy -- if you can make a simple test program with argc/argv, that converts very simply over to a libged function
14:04.33madanthmm.. convenient :) ( evil grin )
14:07.41madantoh and brlcad, i ran a sub 6 minute mile ;) 2.1 km in 7:49 :
14:07.50madant:D felt like i was going to die
14:09.24brlcadexcellent
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14:30.38hippieindamakin8hey madant brlcad
14:31.24hippieindamakin8madant, just went out on a jog of 2 km (in arnd 13 min)
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14:56.10kanzurebrlcad: I'll try to send out an email in a few hours about the web repository ideas.
14:56.33kanzurebut pre-emptive constructive criticism about better ideas would be acceptable :)
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15:21.31brlcadhello hippieindamakin8
15:21.51brlcadkanzure: please do
15:22.03*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.146.22)
15:22.10brlcadit'll be a rush the closer to the deadline it gets, and become harder to get good responses/reviews in the later they are
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15:36.22andrecastelohi brlcad, ``Erik
15:36.34andrecastelo:)
15:46.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03117.196.146.22 07http://brlcad.org * r1322 10/wiki/User:Homovulgaris: /* Abstract */ main objective changed
15:48.23madanthippieindamakin8, speed up ;) unless of course you were enjoying some wonderful scenery while jogging
15:49.40hippieindamakin8madant, in iit kanpur's stadium .. there wont be any scenery there nor chiks :)
15:50.26madanthaha :) ah u are from iitk .. kewl.. i hear it is a very study-oriented place :P
15:50.50madantu doing UG there ? which subbject ?
15:50.55madants/subbject/dept.
15:54.22*** join/#brlcad AlexandreGuedes (n=chatzill@187-24-41-215.3g.claro.net.br)
15:55.08hippieindamakin8madant, dude yeah !that is the reason writing an app becomes difficult. majoring in mechanical engineering.(subject of interest:computational geometry)
16:08.39CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Homovulgaris 07http://brlcad.org * r1323 10/wiki/User:Homovulgaris: /* Proposal */ change of priorities
16:18.16CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Homovulgaris 07http://brlcad.org * r1324 10/wiki/User:Homovulgaris: /* Schedule */
16:19.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Homovulgaris 07http://brlcad.org * r1325 10/wiki/User:Homovulgaris: /* Other Notes */
16:19.34madantloves cia wiki updates ;)
16:21.19d-lothat you making all that IRC vomit? :)
16:21.41madantmoi :)
16:22.55CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Homovulgaris 07http://brlcad.org * r1326 10/wiki/User:Homovulgaris: Text shifted to Notes since priorities have been changed
16:24.07madanthippieindamakin8, :) which year are u in ?
16:25.52hippieindamakin84rth
16:38.49hippieindamakin8starts editing the wiki <but feels that the cia updates would rather embaress him>
16:41.44starseekernah, go for it - we've all been there
16:44.55hippieindamakin8starseeker, :) thanks and did u find any thing better w.r.t the problem u were working on ?
16:45.41starseekerbrlcad and I discussed it some
16:46.00starseekerprobably want to back up and see if we really need the solution to that specific problem
16:46.09hippieindamakin8:)
16:47.07hippieindamakin8starseeker, once i submit my application, i shall send in a mail(read as spam)  on the list with my idea of the solution
16:47.41*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedyIII (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
16:47.59starseekersounds good
17:16.22*** join/#brlcad dreeves (n=c752f34a@bz.bzflag.bz)
17:34.50``Erikif you feel like it'd be embarrassing, just remember, were still too busy laughing at starseeker to bother picking on you ;) *duck*
17:36.31d-lolol
17:36.49d-loYou can also blame any mistakes you make on the LHC.
17:36.49``Erikthat astro is swept, dave
17:37.17d-losaw that.  5200 cyclers is hardly 'no mobile' =D
17:38.08``Erikwoulda figured the 17000 ft's and 240 hc's woulda gotten more attention
17:40.53AlexandreGuedeshi
17:41.17AlexandreGuedeswhen I'm compiling my build.
17:41.30AlexandreGuedesis normal a lot of warning ?
17:41.46``Erikin the src/other directory, yes... shouldn't be many outside of that
17:50.17AlexandreGuedesi got some errors
17:50.52AlexandreGuedesmake[2]: *** [libdm_la-color.lo] Error 1
17:51.37AlexandreGuedessomeone knows this error?
18:00.32``Erikcan you paste more of the backlog to http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/ ? (the actual error is before that line)
18:07.11AlexandreGuedesok..
18:07.30AlexandreGuedeshttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m6f0cdb29
18:15.13madantAlexandreGuedes, error: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory = you don't have the required x11-dev libraries
18:15.19madantwhich platform are you on
18:15.29AlexandreGuedesubuntu
18:16.10madantinstall libx11-dev
18:16.30madantand libxi-dev too
18:16.33AlexandreGuedesok...
18:18.26AlexandreGuedesthanks
18:18.28hippieindamakin8madant, that is for most of the debian based distro users :)
18:18.41AlexandreGuedesapt-get install xserver-xorg-dev
18:18.54AlexandreGuedes:)
18:22.55madanthippieindamakin8, true i remember a similar situation from a couple of days ago too IIRC
18:23.19hippieindamakin8madant, i too encountered the same problem. :)
18:23.42madantah.. so it was u ? :D
18:23.52hippieindamakin8madant, it was me an year ago :P
18:23.59madantah ok :D
18:24.09hippieindamakin8loves debian and KDE
18:24.48madantAlexandreGuedes, I am not sure if the package name is xserver-xorg-dev for debian.. use apt-file search feature for locating the correct packages ?
18:25.48AlexandreGuedeshmm ok
18:30.15hippieindamakin8madant, i dont think xserver-xorg-dev has libx11-dev headers
18:31.34hippieindamakin8AlexandreGuedes, apt-get install xserver-xorg-dev libx11-dev libx9-dev
18:32.06hippieindamakin8*libx9-dev/libxi-dev
18:34.33AlexandreGuedeshippieindamakin8: thanks
18:34.44madantdoes not even have xserver-xorg-dev installed :D
18:35.25hippieindamakin8madant, interesting :) neways they are the development files
18:35.28AlexandreGuedesnow think it is ok
18:35.31hippieindamakin8madant, which distro ?
18:35.39madantdebian unstable
18:35.58hippieindamakin8madant, awesome
18:36.43madantwhats awesome about it :P I like it though :D
18:37.33hippieindamakin8madant, i meant i too use the same. i dont find many ppl who are using debian unstable.
18:38.25madantOS space is pretty huge :)
18:51.41mafmmadant rulez!
18:51.59mafmand hippieindamakin8 rulez too :P
18:53.00madantoh and lets not forget mafm :)
18:53.13madantpeople still pester you about rand() :P
18:53.15madant?
18:53.46mafmthat question is not for me, I guess
18:55.10madantmafm: ah maybe i am confused.. i remember some debian fan here being pestered about int rand() { return 4; } or something similar :)
18:56.26mafmahh
18:56.37mafmwell, that part was a joke
18:57.23mafmbut I was suffering a lot because of that yes, my workmates were fedora fascists :P
18:58.02mafmincidentally, one of them got fed up of fedora in his laptop (unstable, sluggish, etc) and installed debian a while after that :)
18:58.08mafmbut I don't work there anymore
18:58.34hippieindamakin8madant, mafm :P
18:59.20madantah .. so my memory doesnt suck :P
19:03.49kanzurebrlcad: ok, sent.
19:26.14AlexandreGuedesHow I can know which are the dependeces (libs) before start the make build ?
19:27.29hippieindamakin8madant, i cant find a create content tab in my profile :| on brlcad wiki
19:27.36hippieindamakin8wiki and the site
19:32.24hippieindamakin8madant, nvm :|
19:37.19madanthippieindamakin8, whats the error ?
19:37.47madantAlexandreGuedes, did u try building again ? got any further errors ?
19:38.27hippieindamakin8wanted to put in my proposal
19:38.28hippieindamakin8madant, nthing resolved it
19:38.32AlexandreGuedesnow i'm having other error
19:38.33madantregarding a list of dependencies.. well there aren't many.. :) x11, xi etc. are a few .. but mostly brl-cad code is pretty self-sufficient :)
19:38.45madantAlexandreGuedes, paste ;)
19:39.43AlexandreGuedeshttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d7f7f4d2e
19:40.09AlexandreGuedesundefined reference to `X24_close_existing' ...
19:41.17madanthmm.. tclcad.. try ./configure with the --enable-all option and then make
19:43.17AlexandreGuedesOk, I'm trying
19:46.16AlexandreGuedesWhich  platform is better for build brlcad?
19:47.05mafmdebian, of course!
19:47.23mafmsome alianated ppl might suggest freebsd or something... :P
19:48.30hippieindamakin8mafm, freebsd is good too but they are incomprehensible philosophies
19:48.38mafm(just kidding, any supported platform should do)
19:48.40hippieindamakin8*they are/they have
19:48.52mafmsuch as?
19:50.34mafmbrlcad: it's full of spam http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m16956c60
19:50.36AlexandreGuedesmadant: I had already done, but this happening the same error
19:50.52hippieindamakin8mafm, i ll just get the list of them from my prof :P
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19:52.33AlexandreGuedesmadant: may i should cleanup ?
19:53.36mafmAlexandreGuedes: it seems something internal (funcions being in brlcad code, so maybe it's autoconf missing something), you might want to wait for ``Erik or brlcad to come around
19:53.45brlcad~dreeves++
19:53.59mafma cleanup and --enable-all might help, though
19:55.28AlexandreGuedesthanks
19:55.41AlexandreGuedesi ll try it
19:56.41AlexandreGuedesgot the source from sourceforge, there are difference from svn source ?
19:56.49AlexandreGuedesi got*
19:58.19CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34129 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/README.Linux: note that ubuntu/debian folks should install xserver-org-dev libx11-dev and libxi-dev
19:59.58brlcadmafm, yep, the pastebin doesn't have any spam preventions .. gets hit every couple minutes
20:00.04brlcadfeel free to fix that ;)
20:00.05*** join/#brlcad madant_ (n=madant@117.196.128.14)
20:00.34brlcadAlexandreGuedes: svn sources are the very latest, source tarball is our last release
20:00.52brlcadfor gsoc, you'll want to be using the latest svn sources
20:01.24*** join/#brlcad andax (n=andax__@d213-102-40-30.cust.tele2.ch)
20:01.39AlexandreGuedesi'll start a checkout just now
20:09.31mafmdunno anything about pastebins :(
20:12.50brlcadmafm: nor do I, don't need to know much about pastebin to run one and to install a captcha so it doesn't get spammed ;)
20:16.40``Erikrecaptcha is already installed on that box, right? just a matter of figuring out how to wire it into the php?
20:17.50brlcadyeah, recaptcha is tiny, just a few files
20:18.06brlcadjust usually have to add a few lines to whatever form page
20:18.17mafmI thought that it was some kind of lil' specialized cms
20:18.27mafmerm
20:18.28brlcadheck, upgrading the pastebin might have a captcha option
20:18.40mafmI'm busy with miss LH, she doesn't like me! :P
20:18.53brlcadshe say no?
20:20.49mafmmore or less
20:23.09brlcadwell, is it more or is it less? :)
20:24.26madant_:D
20:26.37mafmit's less than more, but less is more
20:26.56mafmit all depends on the meaning of "enrolled", I can't get such a paper
20:27.08madant_:)
20:27.36mafmI can get only a paper telling that I finished all the courses, and I have the letter accepting my project
20:27.43mafmbut I don't even have a card this year
20:36.40mafmuhm, that apparently is also OK
20:42.07CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34130 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
20:42.07CIA-40BRL-CAD: note that richard and keith added support to rtarea to computer center of
20:42.07CIA-40BRL-CAD: presented/exposed area. this is related to sf patch 1942589 (Exposed &
20:42.07CIA-40BRL-CAD: Presented Region Area Center points) from andrecastelo but it was determined
20:42.07CIA-40BRL-CAD: that the patch was incomplete/unusable. this feature has been requested by
20:42.08CIA-40BRL-CAD: analyst users (specifically from r. dibelka as well).
20:55.54AlexandreGuedesYehh!! I got!!!!
20:57.24AlexandreGuedesmafm: make run ok now
20:58.08mafmAlexandreGuedes: congrats, you just burned the equivalent power to a trip from Porto Alegre to Ouro Preto!
20:58.10mafm;)
20:58.11AlexandreGuedesi cleanup and restart build
20:59.58AlexandreGuedesthanks.. the next stage is something from todo list
21:01.50mafm:)
21:04.00mafmyou're welcome
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21:21.25*** join/#brlcad SniX (n=sylvain@R9d61.r.pppool.de)
21:21.37SniXhi
21:29.19madanthi SniX
21:32.00SniXis it possible to use FME using brl-cad?
21:32.16SniXmaybe exporting to another package?
21:32.27brlcadyou mean FEM?
21:34.01SniXyep, sorry
21:36.25brlcadwhat do you mean by 'use' then?  you can certainly import most FEM's as polygonal/triangle data
21:36.36brlcadand export those out to other packages
21:36.41brlcadusing our importers and exporters
21:36.51brlcaddepends on the format's you're wanting to go to/from
21:48.59SniXthanks.
21:49.57SniXhow do I use a model in another? say I model a screw and want to use it.
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21:58.23brlcadSniX: it depends really what you're trying to do
21:59.01brlcadsounds like you probably just want to make a group/assembly, add both objects
21:59.16brlcadg or comb command
21:59.19brlcad(in mged)
22:01.01SniX(my last question was not FEM related). I am thinking about libraries of models. is there something like "import"?
22:09.06brlcadSniX: we have a variety of importers
22:09.12brlcadls -la /usr/brlcad/bin/*-g
22:09.18brlcadthose g files can be opened with mged
22:09.28brlcadand imported into other g files
22:16.11SniXwith dbconcat?
22:16.27brlcadyes
22:22.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34131 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/ (10 files in 10 dirs): remove BLT from windows build
22:34.58madanthmm.. wicked Rube Goldberg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrCb_fNmSTA
22:47.33mafmbrlcad: were the wiki accounts wiped out?
22:51.38madantmafm: huh ?
22:52.00mafmI can't login in and it won't recognize my mail addresses
22:52.32madantweird.. working for me
22:54.43mafmthen I'm afraid I got amnesia and virulent stupidity or something
22:54.45mafm:|
22:57.37madanti think hippieindamakin8 was also having some trouble with the wiki earlier though he figured it out i think.
22:58.28hippieindamakin8madant, exactly it worked for me in few minutes :)
22:59.44brlcadmafm: the geometry converter API doesn't require knowing geometry formats
22:59.49brlcadit's a refactoring project
22:59.57brlcadwe have a bunch of converters, importers/exporters
23:00.04brlcadit's turning them into functions instead of applications
23:00.19brlcadsort of like how libged turned all of mged's commands into functions
23:00.38brlcadmafm: no, accounts have never been removed
23:01.23mafmhuh, now it works :)
23:05.00mafmhmm, still that of the exporters is low priority and not specially thrilling
23:08.03mafmI also don't want to submit anything related to GUI if not complementary with Ralith's proposal, I like it and think that it's better "channeled" than my RBGui one last year :)
23:18.31CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34132 10/brlcad/trunk/include/config_win.h: remove dead code, define off_t instead of typedef it for some reason
23:20.43CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34133 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: check for the old BSD bcmp() function for Windows even though it is part of POSIX 1003.1-2001
23:24.50CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34134 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libsysv/ (Makefile.am bcmp.c): add support for bcmp() for windows. g_diff uses it and windows (98) doesn't seem to have it, so implement a simple PD version.
23:29.02CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34135 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): add bcmp.c to the other build files
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23:32.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34136 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: make sure we have SIGPIPE for Windows
23:37.31brlcadmafm: of course :)
23:38.10brlcad(and yes, discussions should almost always be public, unless it's a personal issue)
23:38.36brlcadnot being high-priority doesn't mean it's low priority
23:38.59brlcadit just means it'll take a little more student-excitement and a better proposal
23:43.11mafmI guessed that it was something like that, thus my "...and not specially thrilling" subjective comment :)
23:43.13mafmsigh
23:43.27CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34137 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/Makefile.am: g_diff uses libtclcad for tclcad_auto_path() and tclcad_tcl_library()
23:44.02CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34138 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/g_lint.c: use rand() instead of random() since the precision isn't that important here and one isn't available on Windows.
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23:46.30mafmwell, latish here, going to sleep
23:46.32mafmnight
23:48.28CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34139 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: verified that they now compile, annotate that g_lint, g_transfer, and g_diff are ported to windows given they now compile (and seem to run).
23:48.39brlcadcya mafm
23:49.18brlcadi'm sure there's probably some collaborative piece of the gui work to be done -- like backend work hooking up the geometry service and getting that talking
23:49.51mafmI'll see tomorrow
23:50.44mafmI don't have too much work left to do this week :)
23:50.46mafmnight
23:50.52CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34140 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: windows build seems jacked up. stuff compiling in the wrong order.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090402

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090402

00:13.48*** join/#brlcad dreeves (n=dreeves@67.130.253.14)
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00:22.21AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: where i can get .g file format specification ?
00:59.34yukonbobhello, cadheads
01:04.25madantAlexandreGuedes, best bet is the code + http://ftp.arl.army.mil/~mike/papers/brlcad5.0/newdb.html
01:16.59AlexandreGuedesmadant: this link is not working, but I found: http://brlcad.org/OLD/newdb/newdb.html
01:17.18AlexandreGuedesis the same thing ?
01:21.30madantAlexandreGuedes, yep :)
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01:22.28madanthmm.. er.. the army.mil one says draft 19 july
01:26.22AlexandreGuedesWARNING: this document is out of date and incomplete, but a useful start for those writing to the .g format. See the librt and libwdb interfaces for more up-to-date information.
01:27.08madantexactly :)
01:27.25AlexandreGuedesit iis ok
01:27.49AlexandreGuedesi should develop a sample patch...
01:28.04AlexandreGuedesSomeone could tell as should be a patch ?
01:28.14madanthave u succeeded in checking out the repo and building ?
01:28.27AlexandreGuedesyes...
01:28.35AlexandreGuedesand make install..
01:28.51AlexandreGuedesis all runing ..
01:29.24madantwell you could take up any of the manageable things on the BUGS list or any small feature request at the sourceforge tracker or the things in the main TODO.. small things ofcourse :)
01:29.55AlexandreGuedeshmm
01:29.55madantAlexandreGuedes, I am not a mentor :) just a contributor
01:30.11AlexandreGuedesok
01:30.33AlexandreGuedestha pache can be a file  .. ?
01:30.43AlexandreGuedesthe patch*
01:31.59madantAlexandreGuedes, how to create a patch is mentioned here http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=105292&atid=640804
01:32.52madantIt is just an easy method for transmitting whatever changes you have made to the code for removing the bug, or implementing a new feature etc. so that a developer can easily apply it , check it etc.
01:34.34madantthe diff tool as well as svn diff basically concatenates all the changes you have made to a single patch file which you can submit at the sourceforge page i mentioned above
01:35.29madantthen someone from brl-cad can check the patch by applying it using the patch tool etc.
01:35.45madantthinks maybe this will explain things better than moi :) http://ariejan.net/2007/07/03/how-to-create-and-apply-a-patch-with-subversion/
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01:40.13AlexandreGuedeshhmm now I comprehended
01:41.58madantno problem :) go have some awesome time reading brl-cad code ;) some of it is decades old and still awesome
01:44.31AlexandreGuedesis a lot of code lines
01:48.53madantheh.. indeed ;) http://www.ohloh.net/p/brlcad/analyses/latest
01:51.19AlexandreGuedesohhh
03:02.04brlcadAlexandreGuedes: you don't really need the .g file specification to make a converter
03:02.18brlcadthere is an API for accessing/creating/reading geometry
03:02.42brlcadsrc/librt and include/raytrace.h include/rtgeom.h and include/wdb.h
03:30.44AlexandreGuedesi'm back
03:39.05AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: ok i'm analising it
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03:57.54brlcadAlexandreGuedes: great
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03:58.31brlcadAlexandreGuedes: librt is where most of the exporters work, libwdb is used by most of the importers
03:58.31brlcadlibrt is read/write -- libwdb is write-only
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03:59.54AlexandreGuedesThere is some specific documentation ?
04:00.13AlexandreGuedesi'm lookin it now.. Converting_Geometry.pdf
04:00.13brlcadthere is quite a bit of documentation, dpends what you're trying to do
04:00.24brlcadyeah, that's a good starting point
04:00.35brlcadfor an exporter, this simple example is relevant:  http://brlcad.org/wiki/Example_db_walk_tree
04:01.37brlcadlooking at the existing converters is also good
04:01.41brlcadsrc/conv
04:05.32AlexandreGuedesthere are already converters from .g to .vrml, .obj, .x3d
04:07.35AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: some formats can represent many properties..
04:08.27AlexandreGuedeswhich ones of them are more important for brlcad ?
04:09.18brlcadAlexandreGuedes: the ones that deal with the geometry itself of course
04:09.33brlcadother metadata specifically related to solid modeling and solidity
04:09.38brlcadthe hierarchy, if any
04:10.23brlcadthe rest is mostly attribute, parametrics, or 2D data that isn't easily converted
04:11.39AlexandreGuedesmostly : points, vectors, vertexes ...
04:13.48brlcadah, yeah -- the 1D/2D/drafting entities can either be imported as sketch data, just stashed as attributes, or ignored
04:13.58brlcadthey're not directly related to solid modeling generally speaking
04:14.41brlcadand solid modeling does take precedence over other purposes like design, drafting, and machining .. until there are devs to better support those domains
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05:08.19AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: are you here ?
05:09.05brlcad~ask
05:09.05ibotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
05:09.34AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: i'm writing my project
05:09.51brlcadhighly recommends submitting two applications if you have the time
05:10.01brlcadAlexandreGuedes: great
05:10.35AlexandreGuedesi'll  offer importers to vrml, obj and x3d
05:10.55AlexandreGuedesand a interactive vizualization...
05:11.19AlexandreGuedesusing opengl..
05:11.45brlcadthe converters can all go together on the same applications
05:11.48AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: You think that is very or little ?
05:12.15brlcadit's not clear until you start coding
05:12.27brlcaddepends how good you are at reading exising code
05:14.24AlexandreGuedesAnd the interactive visualization can be together ?
05:15.10brlcadinteractive visualization using opengl will be very difficult without finishing the impementation of BREP support
05:16.09brlcadat least implementing BREP tessellation support and CSG to BREP conversion support
05:17.08brlcadstill, please do submit both even stubbed out and we can discuss them in further detail.
05:17.18brlcadwanders
05:20.52AlexandreGuedesUnfortunately gsoc deadline coincided with other commitments...
05:21.17AlexandreGuedesthis week i have others deadlines
05:31.31deeeffacheHey, if you wanted to create something that would generate.. say, a gear, that worked like, 'creategear numberteeth radius,' would it be best to write a shell script or is there another way of handling this?
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05:59.03yukonbobdeeeffache: could be done in Tcl, using mged for example.
06:14.58AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: hey, thanks
06:15.32AlexandreGuedesnow i'm understandig more about brlcad models
06:17.55AlexandreGuedesi'll be away, see you later
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08:35.29d_rossbergbrlcad: your comment on the new importer proposal is private
08:35.52d_rossbergi.e. the student should not be able to see it
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10:27.44CIA-40BRL-CAD: 0385.186.3.59 07http://brlcad.org * r1327 10/wiki/Talk:Animation: New page: Hello
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10:56.28CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/delete: deleted "[[Talk:Animation]]": content was: 'Hello' (and the only contributor was '[[Special:Contributions/85.186.3.59|85.186.3.59]]')
10:56.51brlcadd_rossberg: really?? oops, thanks!
11:07.31mafmhi
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11:25.50mafmbrlcad: mail FAIL: "It was never expected that the project woluThere is also a separate MGED+Archer"
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12:31.19brlcadmafm: ah, oops, thanks -- "never expected that the project would 'finish' as it's a multi-year effort."
12:43.06mafmbrlcad: I figured it out, just noted it in the case that you want to fix it :)
12:43.06mafmbbiab
12:52.21brlcadfixed and extended
13:00.23``Erikcocks an eyebrow at the 'tops' program on his mac
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14:31.51starseekerwills his nosebleed to stop so he can get on the friggin road
14:33.50brlcadgives starseeker some cocaine to congeal the bleeding
14:34.11starseekerheh - best example ever of cure being worse than disease
14:37.26_sushi_Do you know how to feed a long content of a Makefile variable into xargs?
14:37.37brlcadyou probably wouldn't think that after trying it ;)
14:39.14brlcad_sushi_: grep variable Makefile | xargs ...
14:40.25brlcador just the content: grep variable Makefile | sed 's/[^=][^=]*=[ ]*//g' | xargs
14:41.57``Erikthat assumes that the variable isn't split with escaped newlines
14:41.59_sushi_I have variable $(GENERATED) which is a dynamically computed list of all files generated during compilation of Ronja
14:42.09_sushi_I cannot grep it out of the Makefile. It's not written there.
14:42.26``Erikif you have a bsd make handy, do "make -V VARIABLE"
14:42.26_sushi_It's so many kilobytes it cannot be passed on a commandline.
14:42.36``Erikgnumake is r-tarded
14:43.05_sushi_I need it for gnu make
14:43.13_sushi_it apparently doesn't have -V
14:43.43_sushi_is there a limit on size of environment variable?
14:43.50brlcadtrue dat about escaped newlines, though easy to unescape all lines before the grep too -- one of our scripts does that
14:44.10brlcad_sushi_: most have some upper limit
14:44.21brlcad65k on many nowdays
14:45.06``Erikwoke up too early, is already hungry :/
14:45.57``Erikwow, sgi for 25m? O.o
14:48.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1328 10/wiki/Developer_Documents: stub in a development tips section for emacs and studio
14:48.26_sushi_wow, it works
14:48.30brlcad``Erik: lee is up for lunch
14:48.38``Erikyeah, talked to him about 20m ago
14:48.52brlcad_sushi_: what does?
14:49.00_sushi_export GENERATED
14:49.03_sushi_calling an external script
14:49.09``Erikjim isn't interested in a real lunch, just a bowling alley trip or something
14:49.14_sushi_and there for filename in $GENERATED; do rm $filename; done
14:49.25``ErikI was kinda thinking japan house, sake might help this headache out :)
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15:08.59_sushi_now it's already working with GENERATED :)
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15:30.43CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1330 10/wiki/Emacs: pre markers so [] display
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16:22.57CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Suryajith 07http://brlcad.org * r1331 10/wiki/User:Hippieindamakin87: New page: ==Suryajith== I am a final year undergraduate at Indian Institute of Technology,Kanpur, majoring in Mechanical engineering. ===Abstract=== I wish to implement a library/routine which comp...
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18:08.07CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34141 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (4 files in 4 dirs): update uuids
18:09.20CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34142 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/g_diff.c: include sysv.h for bcmp()
18:13.41CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Suryajith 07http://brlcad.org * r1332 10/wiki/User:Hippieindamakin87:
18:35.44CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1333 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: remove the priority distinction
19:30.59CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34143 10/brlcad/trunk/include/sysv.h: hah, missed committing this fracking declaration
19:48.52CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34144 10/brlcad/trunk/bench/run.sh: typo
19:54.15CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1334 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: restore a benchmark database website idea
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21:19.10jdolinerbrlcad could you provide a bit of guidance on a patch?
21:25.03brlcadjdoliner: sure, fix something ;)
21:26.40brlcadi.e., look at the BUGS file -- most of those items are a lot less work than the TODO file items  (though todo also has a few tasks that are pretty simple)
21:27.14brlcadanother thing is to start trying out a variety of the command-line tools until you find some unexpected behavior or a crash, then fix that
21:27.20brlcadusually doesn't take too long ;)
21:29.19jdolineryes I'm working on bug: 2561346
21:36.07brlcadlooks
21:36.22jdolinerit has to do with tesselation failure
21:39.58jdolinerso I need a bit of help on the flow of the program
21:40.30jdolinernmg_booltree_lead_trees is failing
21:45.57jdolinertess* that is
21:46.41jdolinerand it's gotta be failing since ip-idb_meth->ft_tessellate is failing
21:48.00jdolinerbut I don't really know what that references at all
21:48.53mafmbrlcad: requirements are the usual: proposal in the wiki, mailing list, and sending patches?
21:49.14brlcadmafm: yeah
21:49.37mafmpatches being in the interim period, right?
21:49.37brlcadjdoliner: so did you get john's response?
21:49.41brlcadwhat the problem was
21:49.58jdolinerno I didn't get john's response
21:50.04jdolinerdid he send one?
21:50.18brlcadjdoliner: read the comments on the bug ;)
21:51.06jdolineroh yes I did see that
21:51.08brlcadalso might as well mention that ip->idb_meth is a callback table to specific primitives -- ft_tessellate calls a primitive's tess() function
21:51.34brlcadso if it's an ellipsoid, ft_tessellate() is a function pointer to ell_tess()
21:51.49jdolinerin this case it seems to be rt_extrude_tess()
21:51.56brlcadright
21:52.18jdolinerand that's the function I think I should modify, am I right about that?
21:52.33brlcadprobably one of several really given what the problem is
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21:52.45brlcadit's a matter of garbage-in == garbage-out
21:53.01AlexandreGuedeshi
21:53.06brlcadit's bad geometry, so we can either detect it and abort or fix it automatically if it's fixable
21:53.11mafmbrlcad: patches being in the interim period, right?
21:53.11brlcadhello AlexandreGuedes
21:53.17brlcadmafm: what does that mean?
21:53.18mafmhi AlexandreGuedes
21:53.42mafmthat patches doesn't have to be submitted before 3rd April deadline
21:54.09mafmjust with time enough to evaluate it properly
21:54.27brlcadoh heck no -- patches can be submitted all the way up until we finalize selections (though the earlier the better obviously)
21:54.30jdolinerwell it certainly is fixable
21:54.39brlcadwhich is like april 15th maybe? forget the timeline
21:54.51jdolineryes april 15th is correct
21:55.23brlcadjdoliner: in this case, definitely -- you can detect that various segments need to be reversed if they don't form a loop
21:55.30jdoliner1 question, is there any worry with fixing it, that we're maybe changing some feature of the geometry that the user wanted?
21:55.59brlcadand if that's the approach taken, reversing the segments, it probably belongs in import5() so that it's fixed once read off of the disk
21:57.44mafmgoody
21:57.47jdolinerk so we want to make sure, anytime we import that we don't have these reversed segments
22:00.00jdolinerwhere can I find the import5() function?
22:17.35brlcadjdoliner: same file as tess()
22:18.02brlcadsrc/librt/primitives/sketch has the sketch primitive that is used with the extrude primitive
22:18.43brlcadjdoliner: alternative, you could make sure you only write out / export "correct" sketches .. but that will still allow them to be initially created and cause bad behavior
22:19.25brlcadalternative is to just detect the problem during import and print a message that there are incorrectly oriented segments
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22:19.53brlcadput that detection in a function, then it could be added to import/export/prep/tess/whatever
22:20.38jdolinersorry that's nmg_booltree_lead_tess you're talking about
22:20.53jdolinerbecause Im not finding anything called import when I search
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22:26.24jdolinerk nm found it
22:30.40CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Suryajith 07http://brlcad.org * r1335 10/wiki/User:Hippieindamakin87:
22:32.07CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Suryajith 07http://brlcad.org * r1336 10/wiki/User:Hippieindamakin87: /* Proposed approach */
22:33.05hippieindamakin8brlcad, comments please
22:33.08hippieindamakin8http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Hippieindamakin87
22:33.51hippieindamakin8madant_, mafm ^
22:38.58mafmnice, hippieindamakin8
22:39.16hippieindamakin8mafm, comments :)
22:39.37mafmaesthetically?
22:39.42mafmtechnically, no idea :)
22:40.08hippieindamakin8mafm, :D
22:40.22hippieindamakin8mafm, meant technically
22:41.00hippieindamakin8should be getting ready with a bug fix .. now i can do my course projects for the next 2-3 days
22:41.28mafmhippieindamakin8: I don't know much about b-reps or CSG or anything :P
22:41.47mafmas a proposal, if you want to submit that as application in the google app
22:42.00mafmit should have maybe less detail (or maybe not)
22:42.16hippieindamakin8mafm, are u familiar with the computational geometry algos using approximation ?
22:42.24mafmbut it must contain milestones, plans for it (in weeks or something) and this kind of thing
22:43.10hippieindamakin8mafm, rt exactly
22:43.17hippieindamakin8i forgot to mention the timeline :|
22:43.25mafmhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/OpenGL_GUI_Framework#Initial_Project_from_GSoC_2008
22:43.58hippieindamakin8mafm, thanks i shall add it to both of them
22:43.59mafmI think that mine from last year works pretty well (it's incomplete, lacking personal info and so on, but gives you an idea about milestones, deliverables and other sections)
22:44.49mafm(my full proposal was more detailed, now that I see it in detail :) -- I can provide you one of my proposals where you can see the overall structure )
22:45.26mafmand I'm not familiar with the details of CAD or rendering in any sense, I only take part in the infrastructure of things -- GUI, interfaces, etc :)
22:45.44hippieindamakin8mafm, i ll try to add it in :) i just have gone through madant_ 's proposal
22:46.27hippieindamakin8mafm, havent u put in any app this year?
22:46.48mafmI'm trying, right now
22:48.01mafmmadant_'s one is also a good think to inspire you, specially with the schedule
22:48.41mafmbut hey, brlcad is the Big Boss, so take advantage of him (erm... with tender and care :) )
22:48.43hippieindamakin8yeah that is elaborate
22:48.53hippieindamakin8mafm, yeah ;)
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23:08.22MalyceHello
23:08.33MalyceI was reading through the Core C++ interface
23:09.01Malycewhere can I find the class diagram for it ?
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23:10.18brlcadhippieindamakin8: even at a glance, already better than last year :)
23:10.59brlcadyou need to include a timeline with some basic goals/deliverables/objectives spelled out -- something that can help track progress
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23:11.10brlcadthat goes for others as well, if you don't have a timeline yet
23:11.22brlcadit'll be one of my first comments
23:11.24hippieindamakin8brlcad, working on it. thanks
23:11.29hippieindamakin8:)
23:11.59mafmhippieindamakin8: also, make sure to read all the required stuff in the website
23:12.02brlcadalso, feel free to link to a personal site or portfolio or paper or whatever if you have it to share
23:12.29brlcaddoesn't need to be a resume, frankly don't care much where you've worked -- but if you can show things you've actually done, that can be useful
23:12.38hippieindamakin8brlcad, sure. i ll put the links.
23:13.06brlcadhippieindamakin8: yeah, what mafm said too -- there's a list of things you should be sure to include/cover
23:13.11hippieindamakin8brlcad, rt now the ftp site of uNC is down so i shall put up the acm links
23:13.12mafmhippieindamakin8: such as: http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Acceptance#List_your_milestones
23:13.19Malycehiya
23:13.22mafm(and the rest of things in that page)
23:13.29mafmhi Malyce
23:13.39MalyceI managed to find the UML diagrams for Geometry engine and services
23:13.49brlcadhippieindamakin8: don't want links to other people's stuff, I mean *your* stuff if you have anything
23:13.51Malycebut couldn't find the one for Core C++ interface
23:13.51hippieindamakin8brlcad, with sleeplessness i forgot abt the requirements
23:14.06hippieindamakin8brlcad, as in anything related to that ?
23:14.11MalyceCould you pass me a link ?
23:14.59mafmsorry Malyce, that's classified information
23:15.12hippieindamakin8i shall set a link to my resume/site. my paper isnt anywhere close to this :P
23:15.46mafm(malyce: I mean... I don't know, maybe other people does ;) )
23:16.06hippieindamakin8mafm, i just got a hosting from drupal(the free one) a couple of weeks ago :P that is pretty decent as a matter of fact
23:16.35mafm:)
23:16.47Malyceeh ? ok
23:17.00Malyceas long as the discussion is about passing links to previous works
23:17.13MalyceI don't really have links to what I have done
23:17.37MalyceBut, for the past year, I have been working as a research assistant to formalize Solidworks 2008
23:18.21MalyceI wrote VBA code for the Solidworks API, to extract CAD data to OmDoc(XML) and HASCASL(Haskell)
23:18.48MalyceAnd in the end, basically creating pointclouds from the CAD data
23:19.04MalyceWould such an explanation be any good ?
23:20.11mafmMalyce: if you're planning an application, you should read http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Acceptance and do something like http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Homovulgaris
23:21.00mafmmilestones, schedule and other stuff depends heavily on what task do you plan to tackle
23:21.05hippieindamakin8madant_'s app has become an example aint it :)
23:21.10mafmbut in general, it should give you an idea
23:21.24brlcadMalyce: there aren't uml diagrams for the coreInterface -- but there is writeup for it on the wiki
23:21.32MalyceYes, I read that.
23:21.35brlcadand the classes are pretty neatly organized -- it's not that complex
23:21.49Malyceoh, you mean the one from the Developer docs ?
23:22.00brlcadMalyce: also note that the uml diagrams that you read are likely out of date - but they do still have useful information
23:22.05mafmhippieindamakin8: I had the link around
23:22.16brlcadmostly on what those uml diagrams call the GeometryEngine is not entirely/still true
23:22.27brlcadand yes, the dev docs
23:22.27hippieindamakin8mafm,  madant_ would be elated if he hears this
23:23.02hippieindamakin8neways i better complete editing the proposal. its already 4:55 am and got a class from 10.
23:23.18MalyceI read a todo list in the repository for Geometry Engine
23:23.28mafmMalyce: also mine http://brlcad.org/wiki/OpenGL_GUI_Framework (personal info, background and so on not included), was accepted last year
23:23.45brlcadhippieindamakin8: for references, I meant personal-portfolio information, like if you had a personal website where you show other projects you work on
23:23.48brlcadif not, no big deal
23:23.49MalyceIt tells about what should be the end product, but not about the current issues
23:23.51mafmhippieindamakin8: get to work! :P :)
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23:24.14hippieindamakin8brlcad, i do have one.
23:24.18hippieindamakin8i ll link it up
23:24.20MalyceIs there such a todo list, where I can find what part people are currently working ?
23:25.20brlcadMalyce: mostly by hanging out in irc and talking -- we don't keep anything documented like that because it is *constantly* changing for the most part
23:26.36MalyceI see. So to include a concrete list of what I can achieve, I should go through the current state of the repository ?
23:26.57MalyceI don't want to sound too vague, when I write a list of objectives.
23:27.44brlcadyeah, the more specific you can be, the better
23:27.57brlcadit is expected that you will have to learn much as you get started
23:28.06brlcadso pad for some of that time in your proposal
23:28.19brlcadthere will have to be a lot of time for communication/discussion too throughout
23:28.31brlcadno student should be working in a vacuum
23:29.08brlcadas for the state of the repository, that's best understood by looking through what you can and asking questions -- I can probably answer a lot more quickly than you can find
23:29.17brlcador at least point you in the right direction
23:29.35brlcadthere's not much time left so there will be more time to tweak after the deadline
23:29.48mafmbrlcad: the global illumination rendered was not done by andrecastelo?
23:29.53mafmrenderer* even
23:30.02MalyceYou said yesterday about the future merging of Core interface with Geometry Engine
23:30.18MalyceI have taken a look at both. I am still formulating some good objectives
23:30.24MalyceAny hints ?
23:31.45brlcadmafm: what do you mean?  he worked on it, but he didn't finish
23:32.20*** join/#brlcad AlexandreGuedes_ (n=chatzill@187-24-72-109.3g.claro.net.br)
23:32.32brlcadin fact, he didn't get to the global illumination aspect, he got to basic flat shade ray-tracing
23:32.47brlcadMalyce: are you the one familiar with SW?
23:32.56Malyceyes
23:33.01brlcadokay
23:33.11MalyceI have been working on it for quite a while
23:33.16Malycenot as a modeller though
23:33.23Malyceonly with VB and the API
23:33.48brlcadwell to relate to their api a little bit -- if I remember their api correctly, their approach does things a little like if we merged our geometry service together with the geometry engine
23:34.08brlcadbasically that you attach to their geometry engine and send it actions/queries to perform
23:34.16mafmah ok, it'll be a WIP too
23:35.01MalyceHmm, I thought core services' syntax resembled more like their API syntax
23:35.20brlcadthe goal of the geometry engine is to separate service actions, access control, and revisioning from the core representation and capabilities of geometry
23:35.21MalyceI haven't seen any examples for either Geometry Engine or services
23:35.39brlcadthere are some coreinterface examples on the wiki
23:35.43MalyceYes
23:35.46MalyceI have seen
23:35.49brlcadk
23:35.54Malycebut not for Geometry engine/services
23:36.06MalyceAre there any ?
23:36.33brlcadfor all intensive purposes GeometryEngine==coreInterface
23:36.51brlcadgeometry service is not involved
23:37.01MalyceI think I am beginning to understand.
23:37.25MalyceSo, when you said you wanted to merge core interfaces with geometry engine, they both complement each other
23:37.25mafmbrlcad, from your ideas list: Create a 3D geometry browser graphical interface using a common graphics engine (e.g. OGRE, Open Scene Graph, Crystal Space) -- isn't this the GUI that we've been making?
23:37.33brlcadthe GeometryService *project* required the dev that was working on it to define some aspects of a GeometryEngine before one existed, before coreInterface was even to the point it is at now
23:37.35Malyceinstead of substituting each other
23:38.08Malyceok
23:38.13brlcadso the GS dev ended up duplicating some of the same design that was implemented by the other dev that was working on the coreInterface (d_rossberg)
23:38.27brlcadso they should be merged
23:38.46brlcadI think coreInterface has a lot more design to it already, but still has a LONG way to go
23:38.51MalyceSo, is the plan to extend core interfaces, till it converges with Geometry engine ?
23:38.58brlcadyeah, sorta
23:39.06MalyceSound cool
23:39.17brlcadin my mind, coreInterface is the GE but with a bad name :)
23:39.27MalyceIs the wiki out of date ?
23:39.39brlcadbut then there are some aspects in the currently GS/GE-named GE that need to merge with it
23:39.45brlcadnot horribly no
23:39.58brlcadthat's where things are at -- a lot of work remains
23:40.36brlcadso probably your first step would be to work with d_rossberg and d-lo to merge the two or find the best way to consolidate them
23:41.14MalyceSo core interfaces needs to cover all the standard libraries that BRL devs work with ?
23:41.24MalyceShould I put that down as an objective ?
23:41.36brlcadthen itemize a few specific goals, like maybe adding support for all of the primitive types, or maybe defining brep entities, or maybe adding hierarchy traversal support, etc
23:42.04brlcadbrl-cad's core libraries are presently LIBBU, LIBBN, LIBRT, LIBWDB, and LIBGED
23:42.20brlcadthe Geometry Engine is an OO layer that sits on top of that functionality
23:42.45brlcadand uses those libraries to provide functionality
23:43.05MalycePardon me. I understand some of your lingo, but others I don't get: Defining brep entities ?
23:43.28brlcaddepending on what portion of the API you work on, the task may even involve some refactoring -- pushing functionality that is in libged into librt, for example, so that the GE can use it more effectively
23:43.40brlcadbrep is "boundary representation"
23:43.52brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundary_representation
23:44.21MalyceHierarchy transversal support has to do with inheritance ? Or does it have something to do with model parts ?
23:44.23brlcadhttp://en.wiki.mcneel.com/content/upload/images/Brep_structure.gif  <-- pretty good image
23:44.29brlcadalbeit detailed
23:44.41brlcadmodel parts .. traversing down a model hierarchy
23:44.48brlcaddoing things while you traverse
23:44.52brlcadit's a common operation in librt
23:45.00MalyceThat seems like something I am much more familiar with
23:45.01brlcadit becomes a set of iterators in OO
23:45.16MalyceSounds simple
23:45.30brlcadthat's why one of daniel's examples is traversal iirc -- you can see the difference
23:45.34brlcadlooks for the link
23:46.27brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Example_db_walk_tree
23:46.40brlcadthat uses librt to traverse a geometry file and print all regions
23:47.02MalyceThanks a ton brlcad
23:47.11Malycethis was exactly the sort of thing I was looking for
23:47.16brlcadthis is similar but with the C++ interface as it currently stands:  http://brlcad.org/wiki/CoreInterface_Tree_Walker_Example
23:47.59brlcadnotes that needs lots of improvement :)
23:48.43brlcadno reason the C++ version should be that much more text than the C version :)
23:48.57brlcadthough in all fairness, they do slightly different things
23:49.01Malyceok, dumb question maybe, but is it not possible to save the file, and just run the db_walk to get the same result ?
23:49.13brlcadhm?
23:49.26MalyceIt seems you have hierarchy transversal in the geometry files, but not in core interfaces, is it not ?
23:49.28brlcadsave what file?
23:49.46MalyceI assumed the first example was transversal inside a stored database file
23:50.11brlcadour geometry database files (our .g file format) contain geometry with hierarchical information
23:50.27Malyceyes
23:50.46brlcadsay you open a file and want to list all objects, that's easy enough, but say you want to print the hierarchy itself, then you need to traverse over the objects in their hierarchy order
23:50.49Malyceso, why can't a dirty shortcut like the one I mentioned above be used ?
23:51.01Malyceoh
23:51.22MalyceSo the hierarchy isn't preserved ?
23:51.38brlcadof course it's preserved, but it's just bits on a disk
23:51.53Malyceso ?
23:52.07brlcadso I think you're missing something :)
23:52.35brlcadthe API in this case is a routine to walk down a tree
23:52.42MalyceIs this the difference between doing it in realtime, and retrieving the info from storage ?
23:52.48brlcadon the C side in librt, one of those functions is db_walk_tree()
23:53.12brlcadyou provide various callbacks to db_walk_tree() to tell it what to do when it encounters various object types
23:53.26brlcadyour callbacks are invoked, and your application does what it needs to
23:54.09brlcadthat's very much a procedural method of iteration, what one would generally expect with a C api
23:54.25brlcadfor the C++ api, I would generally expect something else
23:55.00Malycelike ?
23:55.21MalyceJust something higher level ?
23:55.36brlcadwhich is what is shown in that example for the coreInterface -- there it defines a TopObjectIterator along with a callback, and as it iterates over 'good' objects (wtf), it calls that callback
23:56.31brlcadexpectation is what it does -- iterator pattern instead of procedural callbacks
23:58.35MalyceAnd we can't have the same thing in C ?
23:58.43MalyceIs the difference in Classes ?
23:58.54Malyceiterators are not possible in C ?
23:59.27mafmlanguages with OO capabilities are cleaner in some ways, as this one :)
23:59.46brlcadmafm: right, there are no iterators
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090403

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090403

00:00.09brlcadat best, you could have an iterator function that is given an iteration state object
00:00.12MalyceI never realised this
00:00.21mafmyou can create roughly the same functionality with C structs, but sometimes it's not as clean and usually ppl doesn't work with those idioms in C language
00:00.36brlcadsort of like strsep() .. it's not nearly as clean as just iterator++;
00:00.49MalyceEase of use. yes, classes are nice
00:01.02brlcadwith strsep(), you keep calling strsep and keep feeding it a new (state) pointer
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00:01.10MalyceWhich is why you want the CoreInterfaces in C++
00:01.18brlcadwe have a C api
00:01.28brlcadthe entire point is to provide a new/clean OO C++ API
00:01.37MalyceBut, for the unified API, youd rather use C++
00:01.40Malyceok
00:01.42brlcadhm?
00:01.47Malycesame thing
00:01.50brlcadthere is no 'unified' api
00:02.02brlcadthere are the C libs, and this new C++ library
00:02.12Malycethe merging of Coreinterfaces with GeomEngine
00:02.14brlcadthe C++ one sits on top of the C ones
00:02.54brlcadwell, that's more just a "current state of affairs" .. there are two things that have the exact same goals, but were simply designed by two different devs mostly in isolation
00:03.11brlcadthey need to merge simply because they are the same thing -- the differences have to be reconciled
00:04.03MalyceThe Tree walker example, is that hypothetical ?
00:04.13brlcadno, we do that sort of thing all the time
00:04.26brlcadyou can find dozens of examples of it throughout the brl-cad code
00:04.30MalyceOr, if it works, then don't you already have traversal support ?
00:04.54brlcadwe have traversal support in C -- that's the db_walk_tree() function (and there are about 6 others too)
00:05.09brlcadthat one in C++ was just implemented like last week
00:05.28Malyceso, you do have traversal support in C++ now ?
00:05.43brlcadthe one you just saw...
00:05.58Malycek, is there anything I can add ?
00:06.13brlcadundoubtedly
00:06.24brlcadagain, that code is brand new, hasn't even been reviewed by anyone really
00:06.34brlcadand it's actually longer than the C example
00:06.43MalyceYes, funnily
00:06.44brlcadthat's not right -- something could be improved there I'm sure
00:07.09MalyceI'll add that to my list
00:07.16Malyceanything else that comes to mind ?
00:07.23brlcadto say you're going to work on that would be missing the boat a little bit though -- there's hundreds of pieces of functionality like that in LIBRT that need to be translated to OO C++ API form
00:07.43brlcadyou're obviously not going to implement everything
00:08.00brlcadmafm: here!, I can't keep toggling
00:08.08brlcadand it shouldn't be private
00:08.21brlcaddoesn't matter if there's something else also being discussed
00:08.36mafmah ok, sorry :D
00:08.39MalyceBut, you need a specific list of goals
00:08.45brlcadMalyce: yes
00:08.53MalyceSaying that I wish to extend Coreinterfaces won't be enough
00:09.06MalyceI'll need more specifics ?
00:09.21brlcadso you could work on cleaning up tree traversal -- to do that I'd suggest looking at those two examples as well as the other iterators in librt .. see how they could be defined best as c++
00:11.15mafmbrlcad: so do I repeat the questions here?
00:11.25brlcadMalyce: probably best is to peruse what librt presently does, what coreInterface presently does, and what the other GS/GE-defined engine does .. then describe those categorical areas of the API -- those categories of API in LIBRT very likely correspond to objects in C++
00:11.27mafmthe 1st one was already posted in this channel
00:11.42brlcadthe basic structs in C mostly correspond to C++ classes nearly 1-1
00:12.02brlcadmafm: yes, the discussion log would be useless for others otherwise
00:12.17brlcadwhat was the first question?
00:12.26mafmbrlcad, from your ideas list: Create a 3D geometry browser graphical interface using a common graphics engine (e.g. OGRE, Open Scene Graph, Crystal Space) -- isn't this the GUI that we've been making?
00:12.34brlcadthat is the gui
00:12.47brlcadmore specifically, that would ideally be a plugin in the new gui infrastructure
00:13.45brlcadmore interestingly, it becomes a plugin in the gui infrastructure that talks to the geometry service for getting geometry
00:14.10brlcadthis is a great article by a friend on the drupal dev team:  http://webchick.net/embrace-the-chaos
00:14.20mafmI don't understand, isn't "browser" the view?
00:15.06MalyceYou mentioned support for primitives
00:15.20Malycea quick look reveals revolves, bsplines etc
00:15.26MalyceI can move this to C++
00:15.39MalyceAnd I have worked with these before in SW
00:15.51MalyceSo I have an idea of what to do
00:16.04brlcadMalyce: there's no moving
00:16.20brlcadyou're creating a library that sits on top of libbu, libbn, librt, libwdb, libged :)
00:16.32Malycethat is what I meant. Sorry, my lingo sucks
00:16.47Malycebut, I can do that
00:16.53brlcadif working with entites is more familiar, then start there
00:17.05MalyceIt seems like a big chunk of work
00:17.17brlcadabsolutely
00:17.23Malycecoupled with hierarchy transversal, I think it will keep me occupied
00:17.30Malycebig enough objective ?
00:17.43brlcadyou should post whatever you come up with onto the brlcad-devel mailing list, see if you can get rossberg to comment on your goals
00:18.06brlcadhe'd likely be the mentor or d-lo if you worked on that project
00:18.06MalyceI think that covering all the primitives would be hard
00:18.15brlcadthen maybe focus on just that
00:18.29mafm2nd question: Create a ray-trace service daemon with a simple tcp communications interface (similar to remrt, but more of a persistent daemon) -- do you think that is it doable as gsoc project? I don't think that this raytracing is covered by geometry service
00:18.37brlcadtraversal was just an easily demonstrateable point since there are already demos of both in both APIs
00:18.58brlcadmafm: ray-tracing is covered by the GS
00:19.07brlcadit's actually one of its critical requirements
00:19.39brlcadit's being developed specifically to callers to shoot rays at geometry and get back the results :)
00:19.59brlcads/to callers to/so callers can/
00:20.34mafmgood, so scrap that one too :)
00:20.52brlcadso the task there, mafm, could be to work on the GS directly and work on the class(es) that get hooked into by the job manager that will issue rays
00:21.03brlcadthat'd be a pretty hot topic
00:21.10brlcadwhy scrap it?
00:21.15mafmthe 3rd one was a curiosity -- Implement or integrate a RenderMan-compliant interface (e.g. Pixie) to BRL-CAD's ray-trace library -- my gsoc of 2007 was with Aqsis, rival of Pixie :)  but it was not about rendering, but multithreading
00:21.41mafmoh, I meant, if dlo or daniel are already working on it...
00:21.49brlcadpixie is all lgpl, aqsis has nasty gpl portions ;)
00:21.55brlcadotherwise, yeah, same thing
00:21.57Malycedevs@brlcad.org ? i think it might take too long for him to respond. Maybe I should proceed with writing this stuff down and submitting ?
00:22.06brlcadmafm: they're huge tasks
00:22.18brlcadcollaborative efforts would be way cooler than independent efforts
00:22.23brlcadMalyce: no
00:22.28brlcadsee the wiki
00:22.32mafmMalyce: you should submit the application nevertheless, otherwise you'll miss the deadline
00:22.36brlcadit has instructions in the gsoc pages on getting there
00:22.53brlcadyeah, you should submit asap just so you're in -- you can tweak and update afterwards
00:23.01mafmMalyce: you can edit the proposal later. also the address is wrong.
00:23.11brlcadI'd suggest submitting it as soon as you have it done, then post to the list for feedback
00:23.21brlcadand/or to a user wiki page
00:23.35MalyceI have more than 12 hrs, right ?
00:23.50Malycejust to be sure
00:23.52Malyce?
00:23.57brlcadMalyce: *you* do.. but it would be nice if we could have some time to review and discuss it :)
00:24.02Malyceyes
00:24.04Malycecertainly
00:24.06MalyceI will do that
00:24.31mafmabout rendermans: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixie_(renderer) says GPL and LGPL, anyway BRL-CAD would not use them (but the other way around), so I don't kow why that would matter :)
00:24.37brlcadi mean we'll have the upcoming week, but its only going to get harder as the deadline approaches and there are a dozen half-discussed applications
00:24.45brlcadI expect a little bit of a flurry of discussion tomorrow
00:24.48mafmanyway, I didn't touch any renderman-specific part, so nevermind :)
00:24.53brlcadseems to be accellerating as the deadline approaches
00:25.03brlcadagree that it should have been a monday deadline instead of a friday one :)
00:25.08brlcadbut therein is the planning
00:25.20brlcadmafm: okay
00:25.48brlcadit's not actually implementing renderman spec (though that is an option) .. as that is indeed a project in itself
00:26.39brlcadit's hooking into something like aqsis/pixie as either a lighting model or shader .. and making their code use librt to shoot at the geometry (instead of whatever they implemented)
00:27.03mafmI mean, I don't know how to map their operations to brlcad's :)
00:27.11brlcadso using their code to parse the renderman scripts, manage textures, etc, but use our ray-tracing
00:27.16brlcadfair enough
00:27.35brlcadit's a bit of a project to say the least -- would probably require modifying pixie to call our tracer
00:27.45brlcadunless they really made it that cleanly modular
00:27.56brlcadwould definitely require hooks on our end, probably a new shader
00:28.03mafmI think that I'll settle in something between GUI and the GS, or some part of the GS
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00:29.34brlcadgetting the GUI talking to the GS and/or working directly on the GS are both pretty high-priority/valuable/cool projects
00:29.43brlcadpretty well-defined too
00:30.14brlcadI kinda like the goal of making the GS shoot rays for you
00:32.25mafmthe GS would be a kind of remote daemon accepting commands via TCP, to perform operations on an open geometry
00:32.41mafmand sending data back and forth for visualization in the GUI
00:32.42mafmright?
00:33.37mafmso what we need is a wrapper in the thin client that it's the gui, a kind of couterpart of GS for the client (or clients)
00:33.48brlcadthe GS has an example daemon already (gs0)
00:34.24brlcadyou could hook it into the gui, or just make your own little daemon that just issues commands and demonstrates capability
00:34.41brlcadonce you had it working, could then work on hooking it up
00:34.49brlcadand ripping out the libged components in the gui
00:35.13brlcadit already has enough hooks to open geometry and list objects
00:35.41mafmgs0 is the server/-ice part, right? or an example of how a client should call the GS?
00:39.32mafmI don't know if the client component talking to the GS would be better modelled as a separate process, as an object instantiable by the gui with mostly hardcoded API (functions), or with an interpreter that would validate commands before sending them over to the GS
00:39.42mafmreading the wiki, searching for that info
00:40.11brlcadit might be the server part, I forget
00:40.18brlcadeither way, writing a client is trivial
00:41.16brlcadthe point of the service is to not have to hard-code a list of commands in various places -- so you'd either just pass the command to the GS and have it tell you if it's valid or not, or have a routine on the GS that reports a manifest of valid commands
00:41.30brlcadprobably better served reading the sources
00:42.12mafmimagine a db like mysql
00:43.15mafmnotes: db, not proper rdbms :P ;)
00:43.15Malycewhat are 'nmg's ?
00:43.16brlcadthe GS is only accessible over a socket
00:43.16brlcadwhether local or remote
00:43.19brlcadMalyce: nmgs are n-manifold geometry
00:43.25Malycek
00:43.38brlcadfor all intensive purposes, they're boundary representation geometry
00:43.39mafmthe GS could provide kind of libmysql libraries, so the clients can use those libraries to talk directly to the rdbms, abstracting network operations and all that
00:43.58brlcadtechnically, they are an implementation of the radial edge data structure for representing boundary representation geometry
00:44.17brlcadthere are links on wikipedia for all of those terms I used if you don't know what they are :)
00:44.33MalyceFor some reason, the b-spline primitive seems to be quite big, compared to others. I assume, this is because other primitives build on it ?
00:44.50brlcadmafm: possibly, but for simplicity, only care right now about getting the socket communication working
00:45.03brlcadthe geometry engine is the compiled library interface
00:45.17brlcadthe service is a true service, you'll connect to a port and chatter
00:45.18yukonbobhello, cadheads, GSOC'rs
00:45.22brlcadhowdy yukonbob
00:45.28brlcadyukonbob: are you signed up?
00:45.28pacman87hi yukonbob
00:45.31brlcadsomeone's not signed up
00:45.52yukonbobwhat's the signup drlil?
00:45.54yukonbob*drill
00:46.01brlcadMalyce: don't bother looking at the bspline primitive
00:46.05brlcadit's going away
00:46.13brlcadsochop.appspot.com
00:46.31Malycewhat about n-manifolds ?
00:46.33brlcadcreate a profile, request to be added to brl-cad, I confirm, you reconfirm, and we're good
00:46.35yukonbob"sochop": cute.
00:46.43brlcader, socghop
00:46.51brlcadsochop would have been better
00:47.24brlcadMalyce: what about them?
00:47.54brlcadn-manifolds are topological structure -- you'll end up needing most of that
00:48.04brlcadlook at how primitives are already being supported by the core interface
00:48.23brlcadleaves for a bit
00:48.31Malycetheay are still going to be needed ?
00:48.55pooliohowdy all, brlcad
00:49.11brlcadMalyce: yes, everything except bsplines
00:49.15brlcadhowdy poolio
00:50.04Malycewhere exactly is core interface in src ?
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00:53.10yukonbobMalyce: core interface to what?
00:54.23MalyceCore C++ Interfaces
00:55.20mafmyukonbob: I think that it's daniel's project
00:57.03poolioIf anyone is interested in knowing more about brep/needs help understanding what's currently there, I can lend a hand...maybe :)
00:58.39yukonbobfsck... that sign-in keeps crashing my browser
00:58.57mafmyukonbob: konqueror?
00:59.14yukonbobffox
00:59.34poolioyukonbob: is this on linux? I've had a ton of stability issues with ffox lately
01:00.20mafmI had to do stuff with ffox, konqueror sometimes crashed
01:00.38yukonbobpoolio: NetBSD
01:00.46mafmyay for foss-unfriendly google gsoc stuff :D
01:01.35Malyceso, does anyone know, where the actual code for Core C++ Interfaces is in the src directory ?
01:03.11mafmMalyce: it's in rt^3 module, src/coreInterface
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01:08.50Malycethanks
01:12.17MalyceIs this all ?
01:12.29MalyceSeems there is no support as of yet for any primitive support
01:12.47Malycescratch the second 'support'
01:13.05mafmthere's no private development AFAIK, so all that it's developed should be there
01:13.49Malyceexcept for arb8
01:14.16Malyceso, arb8 is the only primitive so far supported by Core C++ Interfaces
01:14.42mafmshrugs
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01:17.13Malyceok
01:17.38MalyceI had thought, it would be possible to include support for a single primitive within 5-15 hours
01:17.52Malycebut I guess that was far too optimistic
01:24.30CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Suryajith 07http://brlcad.org * r1337 10/wiki/User:Hippieindamakin87:
01:30.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Suryajith 07http://brlcad.org * r1338 10/wiki/User:Hippieindamakin87: /* Timeline */
01:38.49AlexandreGuedesHow many students will be accepted for brl-CAD in gsoc 2009 ?
01:39.02AlexandreGuedestwo ?
01:39.35mafmbrlcad: back?
01:39.47mafmAlexandreGuedes: for brl-cad? up to 4, I think
01:41.01AlexandreGuedesmafm: You are trying to ?
01:44.22mafmAlexandreGuedes: yes
01:57.36AlexandreGuedesmafm: Will it be Sean  sleeping now?
01:57.39AlexandreGuedesincredible
01:57.56mafmmaybe 8|
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02:01.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Suryajith 07http://brlcad.org * r1339 10/wiki/User:Hippieindamakin87:
02:02.34brlcadprobably somewhere between 2 and 5 slots, depends on a lot of factors
02:02.56brlcadlike the fact that many of you haven't posted your applications yet, which may result in us getting fewer slots regardless of what we request :)
02:03.14brlcadMalyce: core interfaces is in the rt^3 module
02:03.24brlcadhttp://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/
02:04.07brlcadpoolio: you're also welcome to be a mentor if you're interested (a backup mentor) .. and all you'd have to do at a minimum is be willing to sign up and accept a free t-shirt ;)
02:05.13brlcadMalyce: http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/rt%5E3/trunk/src/coreInterface/ .. there are two primitives at a glance
02:05.23brlcadarb8 and halfspace
02:05.53brlcadAlexandreGuedes: sleepiwhat?
02:06.16MalyceI have completed my proposal
02:06.20MalyceI will post it soon
02:06.22brlcadawesome
02:06.30AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: heuehue
02:06.33brlcadyukonbob: no account yet?
02:06.43MalyceI have a question. How do I attach my cover letter and Resume ?
02:07.13brlcadnot really necessary, but you're welcome to include/link to it if you like -- basic background information about yourself can sometimes be interesting
02:07.33brlcadmore interesting is usually how you work and interact, how quickly you learn, how much a pain in the ass you can be, etc ;)
02:08.14MalyceThen I guess no need for resume
02:08.24MalyceBut I'd like to put in a short cover letter
02:08.29brlcadlink it if you think it'll help ;)
02:08.40brlcadif it'll be a waste of time, don't link it ;)
02:08.56MalyceCan I create a new document in the GSOC toolbar, and add it ?
02:09.07MalyceJust a short letter
02:09.49brlcadtime is often well spent adding more detail to the proposal, or working on a second backup proposal, or working on a patch
02:09.53brlcadi dunno really, give it a try
02:13.43mafmMalyce: this is not applying for a job, cover letters are not needed.  a link to your CV might come in handy, though
02:14.53MalyceI wanted to give my background in working with Solidworks API
02:15.58mafmyou can add that in the "Content" section of the application too, as past experience for instance
02:17.53Malyceallright
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02:21.58mafmbrlcad: coreInterface is in a very early stage of development it seems, and what's about iBME? it appears to include some plan for GUI too...
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02:25.29brlcadMalyce: be sure to read this if you haven't yet: http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Application_Guidelines
02:26.05brlcadalso worth including in your proposal is what you hope to gain out of participating in GSoC and what plans for your project (if any) do you have after GSoC is over
02:29.43Malyceok
02:29.49MalyceI will edit my proposal
02:29.57Malycebut I have already posted it
02:30.02Malyceiamtanmay
02:37.00mafmbrlcad: you tell me to talk in the channel, but then ignore when I talk :P
02:41.33yukonbobbrlcad: my browser crashes trying to register :P !!!
02:45.13mafmwell, going to sleep
02:45.15mafmnight
02:47.48brlcadwasn't ignoring him, wouldn't have answered pm either :P
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02:55.49MalyceSo, how to I get feedback from d_rossberg ?
02:56.52brlcadAlexandreGuedes: so you know, I generally don't answer "hello" messages in PMs -- but I'm more than happy to talk once you say something more than hello
02:57.03brlcadif it's a dev or gsoc question, though, it probably shouldn't be in private
02:57.45brlcadMalyce: post to the brlcad-devel mailing list, and ask for feedback from him or others (or leave it open-ended)
02:58.17Malycecan you give me the mailing list ? The one on the GSOC website was wrong
02:58.25AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: I have a question about patch to gsoc acceptance..
02:59.00AlexandreGuedesAs sample patch I could implement an alteration that allows users to visualize the exported model.
02:59.27AlexandreGuedesThat would be interesting  and acceptable?
02:59.41brlcadMalyce: wrong how so? it shouldn't be
02:59.45AlexandreGuedesI should use glut and opengl functions.
03:00.02brlcadMalyce: it's also on our wiki under the submission guidelines
03:00.30brlcadAlexandreGuedes: we have a modeler and ray-tracing system for visualizing models.. :)
03:01.02Malycewhere can I find info on the patch that we have to do ?
03:01.11brlcadplus, how are you going to visualize a boolean operation between an implicit ellipsoid and a torus?
03:01.11AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: but is to visualizing exported models...
03:01.44brlcadMalyce: what do you mean?
03:02.38MalyceDo we have to write a patch as a prerequisite to GSOC ?
03:02.39brlcadyou do whatever patch you want to do
03:02.53MalyceIs it necessary ?
03:02.58AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: it is just to modes that were already exported
03:03.02MalyceOr is it complementary ?
03:03.12brlcadtechnically, no you don't *have* to .. but your chances will be massively hindered if you don't at least do something
03:03.21brlcadif you can do something impressive, that can *greatly* increase your chances
03:03.54brlcadAlexandreGuedes: native tounge portuguese or spanish?
03:04.46AlexandreGuedesportuguese
03:05.11yukonbobbrlcad: "linkid" can be arbitrary string?
03:05.20brlcadbasically you'll be considered whether you make a patch or not -- but most have submitted a patch and that *really* helps get a feel for how you code and where we're starting
03:05.28brlcadyukonbob: whatever you want it to be
03:05.46brlcadAlexandreGuedes: ah, okay .. I can only read that and not very well, fluent in spanish
03:06.04MalyceI could work on the Hierarchy Transversal Support
03:06.18brlcadso AlexandreGuedes -- I wouldn't suggest an exported model viewer, it's more important for us to import than export :)
03:06.48AlexandreGuedesok..
03:07.04Malycewould that be something acceptable ?
03:07.17Malyceif I could work on it and improve it somewhat ?
03:08.18brlcadAlexandreGuedes: how much time do you think you have for a patch?
03:08.39brlcadthat can kinda steer how big of an idea you might be able to handle -- a couple hours, couple days?
03:08.44yukonbobbrlcad: submitted
03:08.48brlcadok
03:09.14AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: i can submit my patch after 3 april ?
03:09.20brlcadAlexandreGuedes: yes
03:09.35MalyceOh, that would be great
03:09.35brlcadjust should let someone know if that's the plan, maybe state it in your proposal
03:09.51brlcadyou have all the way up until we do final rankings and select
03:09.56brlcadbut obviously the sooner the better
03:10.11AlexandreGuedesi have enough time
03:10.11MalyceOr maybe if you could suggest another idea, I could work on it faster
03:10.16brlcadas we'll be less inclined to bump you much higher/lower the closer we are to the deadline
03:11.11brlcadfixing bugs is always a great way to show your skill as it involves comprehending and navigating code more than writing it
03:11.15brlcadwriting code is pretty easy
03:11.35brlcadreading it is hard
03:12.07Malycewhere can I see the bug list ?
03:12.07brlcadyet with open source, unlike school work and short-lived commercial products, you usually end up reading code WAY more than you write code
03:12.28brlcadthere's a BUGS file in the source checkout as well as a bugs tracker on sourceforge
03:12.44brlcadMalyce: I'm really getting the feeling that you've not read everything that you're supposed to read on the wiki
03:12.54brlcadmost of this is even itemized there :)
03:13.03MalyceI've tried, sorry.
03:13.08brlcadthe brl-cad wiki, not the gsoc wiki
03:14.55AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: ok...
03:15.06brlcadso there's this:  http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Checklist  as well as  http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/HACKING
03:15.11brlcadboth good reading to get started
03:15.19brlcadthe latter describes where the trackers are
03:15.30brlcadhttp://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/BUGS is the venerable bugs file
03:15.39brlcadhttps://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad has the trackers
03:15.46AlexandreGuedesi'll try fix a bug
03:15.56brlcaddifference is basically internally reported bugs vs externally reported bugs
03:16.38MalyceYou are right, I hadn't seen this page
03:17.38brlcadif you want to try a new code project, I suggest a simple importer that we don't have like obj-g, x3d-g, or vrml-g (but should still follow our HACKING guidelines)
03:18.28AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: it is just i would propouse
03:19.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1340 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Application_Guidelines: link to the checklist in a few more places
03:19.48CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1341 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Application_Guidelines: silly preview
03:20.08AlexandreGuedesi'm writing my document  ...
03:20.33brlcadMalyce: http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009 is where the checklist was principally mentioned
03:22.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1342 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code: /* Getting Started */
03:23.07MalyceThe first bug: "Windows MSVC build files seem to have the project dependencies all
03:23.08Malyce<PROTECTED>
03:23.33MalyceIt would be easier for me to fix. But, will it count as a good patch ?
03:25.05CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1343 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Checklist: er, wtf.. send them to the subscribe page, not the archives
03:25.29brlcadMalyce: better than nothing, but would certainly prefer code over build system
03:25.43brlcadand that task is WAY more tedious than you are aware
03:26.36brlcadwe have 400+ applications in BRL-CAD, about two-dozen libraries
03:27.02brlcadspecifying dependencies for 400+ items is rather grueling :)
03:28.07MalyceI see
03:28.09Malyce* bot-bldxf fails in db_walk_tree(), interface may have changed
03:28.10Malyce?
03:28.18Malycetoo trivial ?
03:29.39brlcadm, I don't recall what that bug entailed
03:29.48brlcadso no, not too trivial if you figure that out and fix it ;)
03:30.12Malyceallright
03:30.13brlcadnot too exciting a bug to fix, but certainly more useful than build system
03:31.09jonoredIs there another branch that the brep primitive is being worked on in, or is trunk it?
03:33.35brlcadtrunk is it
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03:34.30brlcadand I just verified, the lists are not incorrect
03:35.05MalyceThanks a lot brlcad. I will get some sleep now, and then work on the patch.
03:35.08MalyceGoodnight
03:35.22brlcadcool, cya
03:40.10jonoredSo writing rt_brep_norm and maybe rt_brep_curve would be a good patch? they seem to not be there in trunk.
03:50.57brlcadjonored: wow, and would be impressive if you actually did..
03:51.15brlcadyou know what is involved there? :)
03:58.20jonoredThe first one looks like it's not that bad... it looks like the uv coordinates are stored and passed back, and for the normal it seems like that should be either calling EvNormal or taking the cross product of the u and v derivatives... am I missing something entirely? Curvature would take thinking about calc, though.
03:59.18brlcadit'll hard to implement and verify without brep ray tracing being complete
03:59.25brlcadit only works on some basic shapes at the moment
03:59.38brlcadthough I suppose you could use one of the test cases we already have that render correctly
03:59.43brlcadand get uv working right there
03:59.57brlcadhey, no -- that's cool -- go for it :)
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04:15.36andrecastelonice mail, brlcad
04:15.57andrecastelojust finished reading the tale of two developers ;)
04:16.58bjorkintoshtail of two developers?
04:17.03bjorkintoshwas a bikeshed involved?
04:17.58andrecastelobjorkintosh: the dreaded bike shed ;)
04:18.08andrecastelobjorkintosh: http://webchick.net/embrace-the-chaos
04:18.35brlcadthanks andrecastelo
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04:19.58brlcadlove it, particularly relevant for some of the devs on brl-cad and new devs in general
04:20.03brlcadone of the hardest tendencies to break
04:20.30brlcadbut one that almost *invariably* happens with impassioned open source devs
04:22.06andrecasteloi was never much of a pat person ;) i remember last year, someone said he/she (don't remember now) liked big commits
04:23.10bjorkintoshPat works in isolation
04:23.20bjorkintoshpat is just a skunk-works kinda guy.
04:23.42bjorkintoshprobably should be working for said organization.
04:24.37bjorkintoshhah.
04:37.48starseekerfixes archer icon colors
04:40.18yukonbobheads for home... maybe a coffee on the way..
05:01.44brlcadplays with the concept, still far from done: http://brlcad.org/tmp/arb8faces.png
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05:10.42Ralith|tripchecks in again
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06:04.25AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: hi
06:04.44AlexandreGuedesfile formats like obj vrml and x3d
06:05.14AlexandreGuedesare not CGS system
06:06.09AlexandreGuedesi should convert these in a BOT
06:07.24AlexandreGuedes(Bag of Triangles)
07:42.25AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: are you on ?
07:43.07alex_joniAlexandreGuedes: it's night over there
07:43.11alex_joniwait a couple hours
07:43.24AlexandreGuedeshum..
07:43.48AlexandreGuedesalex_joni: where are you from ?
07:50.14pacman87~ask
07:50.14ibotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
07:50.55pacman87AlexandreGuedes: ^^
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07:51.46b0efwas any work started on the new interactive gui?
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08:20.10alex_joniAlexandreGuedes: .ro
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08:43.36brlcadAlexandreGuedes: yes, they are non-csg, so you convert to a non-csg during export (there are plenty of examples of other converters), or pick another converter that does support csg (like pov-g)
08:44.23brlcadb0ef: yes, but discussion for later
09:46.19CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03202.3.77.143 07http://brlcad.org * r1344 10/wiki/User:Hippieindamakin87: /* Deliverables */
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09:59.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03202.3.77.143 07http://brlcad.org * r1345 10/wiki/User:Hippieindamakin87:
10:05.05hippieindamakin8brlcad, any comments ?
10:06.38hippieindamakin8on the wiki
10:09.51mafmhallo
10:11.23hippieindamakin8hey mafm
10:11.30hippieindamakin8good morning
10:22.58CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Suryajith 07http://brlcad.org * r1346 10/wiki/User:Hippieindamakin87:
10:46.04CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Suryajith 07http://brlcad.org * r1347 10/wiki/User:Hippieindamakin87:
10:51.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Suryajith 07http://brlcad.org * r1348 10/wiki/User:Hippieindamakin87:
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11:36.56AlexandreGuedesmy plan is use simple shapes like triangles to represent a model
11:37.39mafmAlexandreGuedes: did you submit them?
11:38.20AlexandreGuedesnot yet
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11:49.33mafmAlexandreGuedes: you only have a few hours left
11:49.48mafmmadant: hippieindamakin8: welcome back
11:49.57AlexandreGuedesi'm finishing
11:50.13mafmnice :)
11:50.25AlexandreGuedesthanks
11:50.28hippieindamakin8mafm, hey :)
11:50.41hippieindamakin8mafm, making a presentation on NOx emmisions :P
11:50.43AlexandreGuedesthis week i had many dead lines..
11:52.06mafmAlexandreGuedes: be sure to submit to google first to not have problems later, then try to follow the specific brlcad deadlines: submitting it to the mailing list, creating pages in the wiki, starting to think about a patch if you haven't yet, etc :)
11:52.31mafmhippieindamakin8: I hope that you're not making a hands-on NOx emission!
11:52.49mafmor rather, live methane emission
11:52.50mafm:P
11:53.37hippieindamakin8:P mafm nope .my term paper for the energy systems course was on NOx emmisions and HCCI technology
11:57.26mafmnice
11:57.52mafmmaybe you should apply for tata instead of brlcad! ;)
12:02.47brlcadAlexandreGuedes: our format is very generalized and flexible, so you will be able to import their geometry into our container with pretty much 1-1 faithful preservation
12:02.59brlcadif they have polygons, you import as nmg
12:03.06brlcadif they have triangles, you import as bot
12:03.13brlcadif they have primitives, you import as primitives, etc
12:03.47brlcadhippieindamakin8: not yet -- said submitting near the deadline would make things more tough! several need a review
12:04.31hippieindamakin8brlcad, i do understand :) u did tell us that u would be extremely busy at this point of time
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12:08.04mafmwants a percentage of google stipends for herding gsoc students into brlcad trap :P
12:21.36hippieindamakin8mafm, how abt keep mafm happy fund :P
12:25.40mafmyay, that'll make it :D
12:26.30mafmI'll donate 1 or 2 pennies to brlcad too, for his patience
12:26.42mafmbrlcad-the-man, I mean
12:27.57mafmbbiab
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12:42.28starseekerbrlcad:  nice sketch!
12:42.55starseekerI'd suggest that it might be better to have the green faces non-transparent, and leave the center cube transparent
12:44.50starseekerbut a VERY nice job - I take it you did that in BRL-CAD itself?
12:45.24hippieindamakin8hey starseeker
12:47.00starseekerhowdy
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12:56.54starseekerhippieindamakin8: I notice you suggest the use of LiDIA, which would in turn involve LAPACK.  That's a pretty hefty set of requirements
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12:59.05hippieindamakin8starseeker, yeah but re-implementing the multi-precision floating point libs takes way too much of time
12:59.25starseekerHmm.  Need brlcad to weigh in on this
12:59.42starseekerLiDIA's license is a little funky
13:00.20hippieindamakin8aah is it ?
13:00.31starseekerit MIGHT be ok, but it needs studying
13:00.32hippieindamakin8looks at the documentation of LiDIA
13:00.50starseekertheir statement that it's "OK for noncommerical use" on the website is worrisome
13:01.21hippieindamakin8aah :| that is not very good
13:02.48hippieindamakin8starseeker, i planned on tweaking arnd with the BOOLE system which already uses the package LiDIA.
13:03.21starseekerthe actual license text isn't standard, at a quick read
13:03.24starseekerchecks BOOLE
13:03.37hippieindamakin8starseeker, :|
13:03.50hippieindamakin8Copyright 1997 The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
13:03.50hippieindamakin8<PROTECTED>
13:03.50hippieindamakin8<PROTECTED>
13:03.50hippieindamakin8<PROTECTED>
13:03.50hippieindamakin8<PROTECTED>
13:03.53hippieindamakin8<PROTECTED>
13:03.54hippieindamakin8<PROTECTED>
13:04.05starseekerow
13:04.33starseekeryeah, that makes it sound like commercial use could be a problem
13:04.34hippieindamakin8starseeker, that shouldnt be a problem !
13:04.54starseekerthey specify educational, research and non-profit purposes
13:05.05starseekerthat means other purposes do NOT have permission
13:05.06hippieindamakin8:|
13:05.25hippieindamakin8so i need to re write the proposal
13:06.41hippieindamakin8starseeker, will get back to u in 5 mins. going to another lab in the next building
13:07.13starseekerI've got to get going myself
13:07.21starseekerjust thought I'd point out the potential issue there
13:09.21hippieindamakin8starseeker, any suggestions on how i should proceed ?
13:10.08starseekerare there any similar libs with clearer licensing?
13:10.34starseekerYou might check with brlcad when he gets in - he has a broader knowledge of this sort of software than I do
13:10.43hippieindamakin8yeah nlt starseeker
13:11.18hippieindamakin8i have checked nlt too . but planned on using liDIA as it was already implemented in BOOLE
13:11.53hippieindamakin8*ntl
13:12.49starseekerhippieindamakin8: do you have a link to BOOLE handy?
13:12.55hippieindamakin8yeah
13:13.04hippieindamakin8http://www.cs.unc.edu/~geom/CSG/boole.html
13:14.06hippieindamakin8starseeker, if LiDIA cant be used then ntl(http://www.shoup.net/ntl/) can be used along with GMP
13:15.15starseekerNTL is GPL, not LGPL
13:15.22hippieindamakin8http://www.cs.unc.edu/~geom/CSG/BOOLE-DOCS/copyright
13:15.39starseekeryeah, saw that
13:16.06starseekeryou should ask brlcad about those license questions and whether they make using those in the project a non-starter
13:16.31hippieindamakin8yeah :|
13:16.55starseekerok, I gotta run
13:17.11hippieindamakin8starseeker, thanks and cya
13:35.58``Erik*readreadread*
13:36.41``Erika patch lets us know you are able to a) use subversion and b) build the system. I wouldn't sweat the patch phase too much :)
13:37.07``Erikdependancies ... all that info is defined in the makefile.am, so it could be a reasonably simple translation issue (though tedious, yes)
13:37.31``Erikall heil the bikeshed!
13:38.12``Erikbrlcad: perhaps we should generate a list of pre-acceptance patch ideas next time around?
13:39.51``Erikmusta picked up a stomach virus or something, was bugging me yesterday, now it's messing with me bad 'nuff that I can't drive far :( had to call into work
13:40.26``Erikstopped by the shop, got an updated estimate, gonna be another month to repair :( and close to the $ for a total :( sucks
13:40.40``Erika lot of the pieces are 3x the price of a normal component for a 3 series
13:40.44``Eriksucks.
13:43.38mafm3 series?
13:49.55bjorkintoshbmw.
13:50.17bjorkintoshwhat's wrong with your vehicle, ``Erik ?
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14:01.07``Erikbumped a curb
14:01.25``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/~erik/m3-2/
14:02.13``Erik(looks bad there, they'd pulled the bumper cover out and removed the plastic cover from teh wheelwell)
14:03.19``Erikand for some reason, brlcad refuses to loan me his brand new lotus O.o :D *duck*
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14:13.04brlcadstill isn't satisfied.. http://brlcad.org/tmp/edit_arb8_1024.png
14:13.10brlcadbut better
14:13.51AlexandreGuedesi should link papers ?
14:14.09AlexandreGuedesin my project ...
14:14.15brlcadstarseeker: yeah, the sketch was all done in brl-cad, that latter had a little compositing done to it to get the right emphasis
14:14.26``Erikif you want, alexandre
14:15.09brlcadwe have permission from the boole authors to do what we want with boole
14:15.35``Erikboole project? O.o
14:15.46brlcadhas/had that in e-mail somewhere -- could probably talk to manocha again and get another okay if it became critical issue
14:15.48``Erikgoogle isn't helpful, it gives me george boole plus some lithp stuff
14:16.54``Erikhas spent the morning on the phone in legal and contractual type things, so may be apt to go all pointy-haired retarded at any moment, btw... like requesting signed approval via fax for boole, whatever that is :D *duck* *run* *hide*
14:17.16brlcad``Erik: possibly (re patch ideas) .. I was thinking of identifying TODO/BUGS items with a "QUICKIE" label of some sort for the ones that should be pretty simple (less than a full day's effort)
14:17.51``Erikwe have to fight the notion of a 'veteran' grabbing a quickie just to get it knocked off, though
14:18.01brlcadAlexandreGuedes: you can link papers if it helps clarify
14:18.09``Erikthe "just do it" vs training opportunity is a beeyotch
14:18.27brlcadmore interesting is to usually link to a portfolio / profile if you have one, but if not that's fine too
14:18.42brlcad``Erik: search for "boole csg"
14:18.48brlcadwork done at UNC
14:18.56``Erikunc?
14:19.05``ErikI think I've seen this before
14:19.08brlcaduniversity of north carolina at chapen hill
14:19.12brlcadyou have
14:19.17brlcadthat's our bradley
14:19.17``Erikwas this one of the utah rt posters?
14:19.36brlcadthe only folks (in academia) that I know of that got an actual vehicle .g transfer
14:19.51brlcadno, boole/esolid are older research
14:19.56``Erikwants to arl1 the hilux
14:20.17AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: papers tha had wirte, but they aren't strongly related with brl-cad...
14:20.39``Erikalexandre: we're looking for competency and utility, not necessarily relation
14:20.54brlcaddinesh and john keyser are the guys behind those works, you may have met/remember them from siggraph
14:21.32AlexandreGuedesok thanks
14:21.38``Eriksomeone who did mad awesome code in say firefox would be a big bump up when we try to select :)
14:21.50brlcadAlexandreGuedes: that wasn't for you, that was for ``Erik  ;)
14:22.09brlcadAlexandreGuedes: it's your judgement to determine whether it's worth linking them or not
14:22.47``Erikuh, someone said something about gsoc not being about applying for a job... I'd argue that's incorrect, but it's a short term contract job, so the focus is different
14:22.56AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: I was thanking eriki by the information
14:23.07``Erikit's about saying "I can do awesome things that you want", not "I'll be an awesome team member for the next 20 years"
14:23.31hippieindamakin8hey brlcad
14:23.45hippieindamakin8starseeker, and i had a discussion on the licences
14:23.58brlcadtyp0: I don't generally answer "hellos" via PM -- if you have something to say or ask, I'd be more than happy to talk but it's not the "IRC-way" to do a "hi ..[wait].. hi ..[wait].. are you there? .. [wait] .. "  just say what you were going to say
14:24.19``Erikhappy people get paid to do what what love, hopefully we attract folk who are happy doing stuff in open source BRL-CAD land and they continue to contribute :)
14:24.48``Erikoh, uh, uhhhhh esr has something about that
14:24.51``Erik"don't ask to ask"
14:24.51hippieindamakin8brlcad, wat do u say about it
14:25.07brlcad``Erik: actually i'd rather them sell the latter :P
14:25.13jonoredIs it known (off the top of people's heads) to not be valid to translate a spline between two surfaces (with a not-unreasonable error formula) by translating its control points?...
14:25.21brlcadand the point is to acquire new devs, not just get some code out of folks
14:25.40``Erikwe want the 20 year folk, yes. But we don't need the full grilling that those guys recieve...
14:25.42brlcadthe short-term contract is just the mechanism to help kick things off and keep bills paid
14:25.56hippieindamakin8as in LiDIA and boole's licences arent straightforward. if instead of LidIA ,ntl(which is just GPL and not LGPL) is used along with GMP how bt it
14:26.27``Erikand I like to imagine that it's an important and fun project with nice and fun people, so there's a lot of imputus to stick around
14:26.35hippieindamakin8brlcad, ``Erik ^
14:26.45``Erikbut it's definitely not a "bust out the cv and wear a tie" deal
14:27.47``Erikperhaps I'd be better in phrasing it that the goal is to impress the geeks, not a pointy haired mgmt type :)
14:28.54brlcadyeah, thats pretty much what I said to folks last night too .. don't really care who you are or what school you go to -- care about what you want to do, your ability to do that work, and your short/long term interests
14:29.49``Erik*nod* sage
14:29.52brlcadthinks http://brlcad.org/tmp/edit_arb8_1024.png makes for a decent BREP image too
14:30.07brlcadhmm
14:30.32``Erikheh, mensa is a fistful of 'smart' useless people, people who really matter dont' join mensa, they go do something real :D
14:30.45brlcadhas a little problem that I made the numbers too small to scale it down to 128x128
14:30.51``Erikit's what ya do, not what ya have
14:30.55brlcadnot really readable under 512x512
14:31.24brlcadthinks ``Erik is gazing a little to deeply into his mensa navel now :)
14:31.35``Erikdeclined the invite
14:31.50``Erikhad better things to do than pay for a circlejerk
14:32.18brlcadand no way, you can borrow Elle .. she's seen what you do to your babies
14:32.34brlcadheh, s/,//
14:32.34``Erikthis morning, for example, I'm figuring out the relationship between REST and continuation based web frameworks
14:32.53``Erikheh, wow, that erroneous grammer could be... fatal :D
14:33.27``Erikthey're digging to look for mechanical failure :/
14:33.49``ErikI doubt they'd be able to identify any with legal sureness, though
14:33.51``Eriksucks
14:34.10*** join/#brlcad AlexandreGuedes_ (n=chatzill@187-24-10-94.3g.claro.net.br)
14:34.19pooliobrlcad: was that around when I was working on brep code?
14:34.26brlcaddoesn't even want to know how you happened to hit a curb
14:34.31brlcadpoolio: no, I just did that this morning
14:34.31``Erik<-- would be willing to swap cars on a drive to lunch some day, just to see what it's about, though :)
14:34.32``Erikwell
14:34.34``ErikI stopped
14:34.38``ErikI started moving and turned left
14:34.54``Erikand then the car quit turning and went straight a bit
14:34.57``Erikand there was a curb in the way
14:35.23``Eriktha'ts my best recollection, of course your brain goes all sorts of nutty when you're in an accident like that, so *shrug* who knows
14:35.50brlcadsure, blame it on the curb
14:35.58``Erikit jumped outta nowhere, honest
14:36.06brlcadthey do that
14:36.20``Erikalmost got rear-ended by a truck this morning, tailgating me and a squirrel when whacko on the road
14:37.46``Erikhow's release coming? saw a couple commits last night
14:40.47CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03202.3.77.11 07http://brlcad.org * r1349 10/wiki/User:Hippieindamakin87: /* Proposed approach */
14:42.27typ0BRL-CAD 7.10.4 isn't launching on my PPC Mac
14:43.13typ0it complains about using CoreFoundation functionality after fork() without an exec()
14:43.30typ0when i try to launch mged
14:53.35``Erikwhich version of osX?
14:53.41typ0Leopard
14:53.43typ010.5.6
14:54.09``Erikhrm, we have 10.4 on ppc, but only intel for 10.5
14:54.35``Erikcan you paste the full error log to http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/ ?
14:54.39typ0sure
14:55.50typ0http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m5dfb3330
14:56.37``Erikthanks... *guru meditation*
14:57.00``Eriksmells like forkbomb prevention gone awry
14:57.03typ0if i follow those instructions and with gdb I break on that symbol, i can't even do much
14:57.13typ0because the program exits with interrupted syscall
14:57.32typ0i've seen this error before, i think in a php lib
14:57.42``Erikis it acceptable to suggest grabbing 7.14.4 from the site and compiling yourself?
14:57.43typ0probably a leopard restriction
14:57.49typ0of course
14:58.00``Erik7.10.4 is very outdated :)
14:58.22typ0i want to write an application to improve IGES importer/exporter
14:58.31typ0any useful tips ?
14:58.38``Erikoh, then you don't want 7.14.4, you want the svn 'trunk' checkout
14:59.48hippieindamakin8brlcad, help
15:00.05``Erik(which should be named "7.14.6" real soon now, if hippie would quit bugging brlcad)
15:00.05``Erik:D
15:00.11``Erik'sup, hippie?
15:00.45hippieindamakin8``Erik, the problem is that the packages i intended to use are MAPC and LiDIA initially
15:00.54``Eriklicense issues?
15:01.14hippieindamakin8yeah
15:01.33hippieindamakin8``Erik, the licence issues are like this both MAPC and LiDIA are copywrit.
15:01.41hippieindamakin8or copyrighted
15:02.12``Erikhm, sit on it. we'll think. if it's just gpl, and we don't want to further infect the primary repo, it may be doable as a new module
15:02.31hippieindamakin8``Erik, neither of them is gpl either
15:02.40``Erikoh, uh, url's for licenses?
15:02.51``Erikdreads having to summon a legal team :(
15:02.52hippieindamakin8i actually couldnt find any exact arithmetic packages which are LGPL
15:03.02``Erikisn't gmp lgpl?
15:03.10hippieindamakin8``Erik, it is
15:03.38hippieindamakin8``Erik,  http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Hippieindamakin87#Proposed_approach
15:03.42hippieindamakin8this is my approach
15:03.49``Erikgmp is an exact precision package, no? do I fail to see something?
15:04.22hippieindamakin8``Erik, ftp://ftp.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de/pub/TI/systems/LiDIA/current/COPYING
15:04.35``Erikexact arithmetic, lazy evaluation... talkin' haskell here? :D
15:06.46hippieindamakin8``Erik, their implementation in c++
15:07.19hippieindamakin8``Erik, i had a plan of spawning a functional programming language from C++ to do this processes
15:07.55hippieindamakin8``Erik, how abt that ?
15:08.08hippieindamakin8prefers python for that
15:08.49``Erikin theory, we intend to introduce python, common lisp, and something else as basic scripting langauges to BRL-CAD
15:09.32``Erikso, personally, the notion of python is not a showstopper in my mind... but I may be wrong, I defer to brlcad for an official stance
15:09.37hippieindamakin8``Erik, ur comments on the procedure ?
15:10.13``ErikI've made all the comments I'm comfortable making :) my brain isn't 100% today... called in sick to work, etc
15:11.03hippieindamakin8``Erik, i am very comfortable with python so that is the reason i wanted to implement it with python
15:11.16``Erikalso; my proxy is farting on the ftp notion, so'z I can't view all the relevant data :(
15:11.27hippieindamakin8ohh
15:11.33``Erik<-- far more of a ruby fan than python :)
15:12.00``Erikguido has something rollin', but I think he misses a few critical points
15:12.15``ErikI think the next ruby is gonna remove some important stuff that I don't think matz groks :(
15:12.26hippieindamakin8``Erik, for the gsoc i ll code in python and then port it to ruby once i get more familiar with ruby by the end of summers
15:12.58``Erikmake sure that plan is in your proposal
15:13.03jonoredseems to remember something about someone doing a test and python coming out 400 times slower than C++, and 100 times slower than common lisp, on some basic numerical stuff...
15:13.24``Erikmicro-benchmarks tend to produce stupid numbers like that :(
15:13.53``ErikI've seen some where common lisp blows c++ out of the water...
15:14.13``Erikthe caveats are critical :)
15:14.55jonoredThe only ones I've seen on that are where it's testing stuff that gets essentially compiled out... that one was (I think) just matrix multiplication.
15:15.29hippieindamakin8jonored, for matrix multiplications fortran is much faster than anything else
15:15.31``Erikfortran stomps C on naive matrix mults on modern hardware...
15:15.35``Erikaint' sayin' much, yo
15:16.50``Erik(and the ONLY reason fortan wins is because their multidimensional arrays are column major instead of row major, so it just happens to tweak the cache lines a little better)
15:19.56``Erikis doing cl stuff in personal time due to the faster "time to market" aspect :)
15:20.52jonoredis in general very keen on common lisp. The only irritation is that it doesn't have first-class continutions and scheme does...
15:22.40brlcadno python for gsoc with only a few exceptions (ged/ge/gs scripting and web stuffs)
15:22.48hippieindamakin8``Erik, listen so technically openNURBs library which is  being used shouldnt be used is it ?
15:23.00brlcadthere's not enough time to be productive and integrate something well with the code base
15:23.16*** join/#brlcad madant (n=d@117.196.128.181)
15:23.22hippieindamakin8brlcad, so the implementation shall purely be in C++
15:23.37brlcadit's one thing for an existing core dev to pick up a python project, entirely different for someone new just picking something familiar without regard to what we have or the impact
15:23.57``Erikjonored: there're a couple addons that provide zomfg call/cc, I'm a scheme head myself :) #ucw is the channel for the framework I'm using, it provides call/cc
15:24.06*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.128.181)
15:24.34``Erikaight, there's your answer, python ain't cool for a gsoc, it's down teh road for the gurus
15:24.43*** join/#brlcad devilsadvocate (n=devilsad@202.3.77.11)
15:25.12``Eriknote all the cya I threw down in that avenue :D
15:25.36hippieindamakin8brlcad, i was just proposing tht python shall be used only in the library( away from the core code)
15:26.13hippieindamakin8brlcad, if that is wat you say, i shall implement the said routines in c++ itself
15:26.21``Erikis, um, what's its name... swag? is that gsoc purvue?
15:27.00``Erikwe had a summer student try&fail on it
15:27.42``Erik(unified interface between a large set of languages)
15:31.17brlcadtick tock on the applications for any still remaining
15:32.33brlcadmentors, feel free to start commenting on them if you haven't already
15:32.45brlcadI won't be commenting for at least an hour still
15:33.01``Erikhm
15:33.14brlcadhippieindamakin8: you didn't upset me in the least, it was a valid question
15:33.15``Erik*look* 10 in the queue
15:33.40hippieindamakin8brlcad, yeah thats very true that python all of a sudden :)
15:34.01``Erikimagines that the only ways to piss brlcad off is to either key his car or shit on his rug
15:34.06``Erik(sorry 'bout the rug)
15:34.10brlcadif you'd brought it up two weeks ago, we could have discussed in better detail ;)
15:34.27hippieindamakin8brlcad, :| yeah
15:34.47``Eriky'know if d'lo is gonna log on and say hi when he gets to his families place?
15:35.03brlcaddoesn't care about his rug, now crap on my plasma, I might care .. but then I'd wonder how you got it up that high
15:35.04hippieindamakin8but still with respect to the proposal my proposal submitted , i dint intend to use anything other than C/C++
15:35.36``Eriknote it in your proposal.
15:35.47``Erikor if it is noted, sorry for making noise :)
15:36.13``Eriklooks at the proposals...
15:36.56typ0brlcad: is there a description of the new features in IGES 5.3 comparing to 5.0
15:37.11typ0that i can use to create a task list with a schedule
15:38.45jonoredis going to have a sadly rushed proposal, but will have something in before the deadline... and hopes that a good patch afterwards could help a bit with a somewhat technically weaker proposal write-up.
15:38.57CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03202.3.77.11 07http://brlcad.org * r1350 10/wiki/User:Hippieindamakin87: /* Timeline */
15:38.58``Erikugh. too much marketspeak
15:40.12*** join/#brlcad lifeeth (n=praneeth@unaffiliated/lifeeth)
15:41.16brlcadtyp0: that's part of the leg work for that project
15:41.26typ0ok
15:41.27brlcadI'm sure someone, somewhere, has that information
15:41.30brlcadI certainly don't :)
15:41.33typ0eheh
15:41.38``Eriknaturally, dawn is incredibly verbose, but quite high level
15:41.40typ0i searched around and didn't find much
15:41.46brlcadiirc, you can get at least comment drafts for iges online now
15:41.59typ0i can do it during the community bonding period
15:42.02typ0should i get accepted
15:42.03brlcadthe 6.0 draft for example
15:42.08typ0cool
15:42.15brlcadthat was a couple years ago though
15:42.30brlcadi might have it stashed away, can check .. should you get accepted
15:42.58typ0ok i'll work on the application
15:43.45``Eriko.O
15:44.21``Erikwell, typ0... would you be interested in being part of our community even if you weren't accepted to our gsoc presense?
15:45.23*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.146.192)
15:46.52typ0well i find the IGES idea quite doable and interesting
15:47.15typ0and always had an interest in CAD systems, even if i don't know a lot about them
15:47.45typ0so i can do the project , and even continue working on it post-gsoc
15:47.55typ0and take it from there
15:48.05typ0btw, latest svn is not compiling on my mac
15:48.07typ0http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m7085cb13
15:48.07``ErikI'm not grilling you, I'm just trying to learn more of your interests and abilities :)
15:48.37``Erikup's on his mac
15:48.51typ0;)
15:49.11``Erikeffin' configure.ac change :( *wait*
15:49.53``Erikthe paste looks like you're missing X headers
15:50.12``Erikboth the X package and the X developer package need to be installed :/
15:50.34``Erikooh, automake error
15:50.42``Erikerror, not warning, a full-up error
15:51.13typ0i think i have all the latest X11 stuff
15:51.18CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34145 10/rt^3/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): added the ellipsoid (ID_ELL) primitive
15:52.12brlcadlibtkhtml apparently isn't listing it's deps, needs Xlib
15:52.41brlcadprobably something their build file is doing
15:52.59brlcadtry going to that directory (src/other/tkhtml) and manually building
15:53.29brlcadadd -lX11
15:53.52*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@adsl-99-147-180-206.dsl.lgtpmi.sbcglobal.net)
15:57.10typ0rm -f libTkhtml3.0.dylib
15:57.10typ0gcc (...) -L/usr/lib -L/usr/local/lib   -L/System/Library/Frameworks/Tcl.framework/Versions/8.4 -ltclstub8.4 -L/System/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Versions/8.4 -ltkstub8.4 -lX11
15:57.11typ0ld: library not found for -lX11
15:57.11typ0collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
15:57.11typ0make: *** [libTkhtml3.0.dylib] Error 1
15:57.53brlcadso you either need a library search path (-L...), or you don't have it
15:58.06``Erikwow, qt as an indicator for platform popularity, lame :)
15:58.23AlexandreGuedes_I submitted my project
16:00.48``Erikhah, wow, whining about homework being a timekiller, uncool
16:01.07brlcadAlexandreGuedes_: great!
16:01.07typ0yeah -L/usr/X11/lib did it
16:01.17CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03202.3.77.11 07http://brlcad.org * r1351 10/wiki/User:Hippieindamakin87: /* Abstract */
16:01.52AlexandreGuedes_Someone can confirm.. ?
16:02.30``Erikmost systems have /usr/X /usr/X11 and /usr/X11R6 pointing to the same real directory
16:02.51typ0yeah
16:02.58``Erikfbsd recenty moved /usr/X11R6 to /usr/locla
16:03.01``Eriklocal, even
16:03.10typ0but in this case the Makefile only made reference to /usr/lib and /usr/local/lib
16:03.19``Erik*shrug* ./configure LDFLAGS=-L/usr/X11/lib
16:03.20``Erik:)
16:03.42brlcadeither way, the autoconf/automake tests should have found it since we just let their tests do their thing during configure .. so something awry there
16:04.10``Erikok, mediafire for a resume sucks goat balls. get a real effin' homepage to post that.
16:04.25typ0i have the latest X11 package from apple (xquartz.macosforge.org)
16:04.30``Eriksucks, cuz I like the idea, but the presentation blew :(
16:04.51*** part/#brlcad devilsadvocate (n=devilsad@202.3.77.11)
16:12.17AlexandreGuedes_It is possible confirm if my submission were successfully?
16:13.47``Erikdude, alexandre, wtf is with all the xml explosion that came through as text?
16:14.25``Erikdivs and font types and stuff, and there's like 5 lines of content in that 3 page monstrosity
16:15.05``ErikI created src/conv/Formats.cvs a while back, d'no if you saw that
16:20.25``Erikwow, chinese place says 25 minutes
16:25.22AlexandreGuedes_``Erik: i can erase it ?
16:25.40``Erikerase what, the csv?
16:26.45``Erikbbaib, heading to pick up lunch
16:28.19AlexandreGuedes_the lines with div and font types
16:31.11andrecastelo``Erik: that's melange making us crazy :(
16:31.32andrecasteloi had those appear more than once when I submitted
16:32.43typ0the iges converter works as a separate binary, ie, can i implement command line parameters to specify the desired version to export/import ?
16:32.50*** join/#brlcad devilsadvocate (n=devilsad@202.3.77.11)
16:34.20typ0(i assume so since there is command line options parsing in the source)
16:53.43jonored...And submitted. Short, but submitted.
17:01.29``Erikneeds to learn how to say "thank you" and "chopsticks" in chinese O.o
17:02.44AlexandreGuedes_hard
17:08.55andrecastelo``Erik: easy, domo arigato for thank you
17:09.02andrecastelojoking ;)
17:17.30``Erikmr robato? what?
17:26.43CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Suryajith 07http://brlcad.org * r1352 10/wiki/User:Hippieindamakin87:
17:28.16CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Suryajith 07http://brlcad.org * r1353 10/wiki/User:Hippieindamakin87:
17:57.56pacman87is it possible to create a degenerate NURBS that's a line instead of a surface?
17:58.19*** part/#brlcad lifeeth (n=praneeth@unaffiliated/lifeeth)
18:15.17*** join/#brlcad Malyce (n=iamtanma@wlanaccess-ext.jacobs-university.de)
18:15.36MalyceHi. I was trying to make a patch to fix one of the bugs
18:15.46Malyce* bot-bldxf fails in db_walk_tree(), interface may have changed
18:15.57MalyceWhat is bot-bldxf ?
18:17.30*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
18:24.22typ0hmm, i finished building svn and mged launched, printed out a line about using Tcl scripts from a directory, and then gave a bus error
18:24.26typ0Thread 0 Crashed:
18:24.26typ00   libdm.19.dylib                0x001447d8 X_open_dm + 1644 (dm-X.c:343)
18:28.38*** part/#brlcad devilsadvocate (n=devilsad@202.3.77.11)
18:34.56typ0btw, i just submitted my application
18:35.21typ0if there's anything i should clarify or improve, i'd appreciate the feedback :)
18:35.40pacman87typ0: do you have a wiki page yet?
18:35.51typ0no
18:38.09typ0i will create it
18:39.56Malycehints ?
18:40.25MalyceThe tracker has no mention of it
18:40.34Malyceits in the BUGS list only
18:42.39MalyceDo all applicants need a wiki page ?
18:43.00pacman87not required, but useful to bounce ideas around
18:43.17pacman87how many applicants are here now?
18:44.15Malyceas admin, shouldn't you be able to tell ?
18:44.29pacman87i'm not admin
18:44.40Malyceis brlcad still around ?
18:44.49Malyceor mafm ?
18:44.49pacman87and i meant 'here' as in 'this channel'
18:47.25Malycehow do I find out, what bot-bldxf means ?
18:59.28CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Carlosvsilva 07http://brlcad.org * r1354 10/wiki/User:Carlosvsilva: Initial creation
19:03.47*** join/#brlcad AlexandreGuedes (n=chatzill@189-92-153-219.3g.claro.net.br)
19:15.11*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
19:19.35madantis now moderately un-sick :)
19:20.35hippieindamakin8hey madant
19:21.30madanthey hippieindamakin8
19:24.45Malycehi madant. Can you tell me how I can find out what 'bot-bldxf' means. It was in the BUGS file, as in "* bot-bldxf fails in db_walk_tree(), interface may have changed"
19:24.51Malyce?
19:26.50brlcadMalyce: by asking -- bots are "bags of triangles" -- bldxf is "build a dxf"
19:26.57brlcadit's a horrible name, but it means make a dxf from a bot
19:27.13brlcadif you're just getting started on that one, try for another bug
19:27.34brlcadthere's another tool that technically makes bot-bldxf deprecated
19:27.42Malycerats
19:27.52MalyceI was already in the middle of it
19:27.56madantMalyce, bot-bldxf and other dxf conversion tools are there in src/conv/dxf directory
19:28.00brlcadwell, you are welcome to fix it
19:28.00MalyceI had read and understood the code
19:28.05madantoops.. brlcad beat me to it :D
19:28.26brlcadit's not going away right away, and still perfectly serves the purpose of the patch
19:29.13brlcadbut the fact that it's missing a manual page means it was an unpublished/unfinished tool that never turned into a production tool
19:29.50brlcadand since then, there is now a bot_dump command that will export obj, dxf, vrml
19:31.23brlcadMalyce: what is your project?
19:32.20MalyceExtension of Core C++ Interfaces
19:32.34MalyceI said I would add primitive support
19:32.46brlcadso add another primitive to the core interface
19:33.01brlcaddaniel just added another one today, you could use that as an example
19:33.12Malycehow much time did it take him ?
19:33.19brlcadask him
19:33.45MalyceI am worried that it might take too long for the purpose of the patch.
19:33.52brlcadso ask him :)
19:34.04Malycehow ? The mailing list ?
19:34.10brlcadthe code isn't that horribly complex, I can't imagine it was more than a day or two
19:34.13brlcadsure
19:34.24brlcadprobably just a couple hours
19:34.28Malyceallright
19:34.30brlcadif even that
19:34.50MalyceI should probably alter my proposal then
19:35.02MalyceBecause I estimated 10-15 hours per primitive
19:35.03brlcadyou could implement the torus -- that should be fairly easy
19:35.06MalyceI wasn't sure
19:35.15brlcadwhy would you alter it now
19:35.29brlcadI don't know how long it'll take -- ASK HIM :)
19:35.37Malyceyes
19:35.37MalyceI am on it
19:36.03brlcadmine is just a guess, but I'm also very familiar with that code
19:36.37brlcadyour first one would probably take a bit longer, but you'd be pretty familiar after a couple
19:39.20Malycehe added ellipsoid i see
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19:40.32brlcadyeah, I would have too
19:40.40brlcadhe's probably working on tgc or torus next ;)
19:40.50brlcadyou'll certainly get his attention with that patch ;)
19:41.02brlcadand he'd likely be the mentor for your project, so good to talk to him
19:41.37brlcad(though we do group mentoring, you can call on anyone -- he's just the lead on that area)
19:42.14MalyceIs it ok, if I send it to the mailing list ? Won't it spam everyone ?
19:42.28brlcadthe dev list is pretty small
19:42.45brlcadthe news and user mailing lists are the big ones
19:43.11*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=andrecas@150.165.134.157)
19:43.18andrecastelohi guys
19:44.17brlcadhowdy andrecastelo
19:44.25andrecastelohowdy brlcad
19:44.27brlcadhow'd the applications go?
19:44.35andrecasteloi've sent only one, to blender
19:44.45brlcadcool, what for?
19:45.15andrecasteloblender's interface is being refactored and the way the inner data is accessed is changing
19:45.29andrecasteloand the big refactor will happen on version 2.5
19:45.55andrecastelowith the refactoring, the python scripts will become incompatible
19:46.08andrecasteloso the application was to port some import/export scripts to the new system :)
19:47.17andrecastelobrlcad, how were the proposals this year?
19:47.37andrecasteloeveryone was talking about a low number of proposals, i wonder why
19:47.50madantandrecastelo, blender sounds kewl :) how is school ?
19:47.52brlcadandrecastelo: curious actually
19:48.02brlcadour applications were down about 25% from last year
19:48.19madantis always reminded of "Catelo's Castle" whenever he sees the surname castelo :)
19:48.34brlcadbz's applications are actually up about 40% from last year
19:48.37madantbrlcad: and quality-wise ;) ?
19:48.45brlcadquality is better for both
19:48.50andrecastelomadant, i'm currently in between semesters
19:49.05andrecasteloso, i'm free of them :)
19:49.08madanthmm.. bz beat us ( brl-cad - brlcad) :P
19:49.10andrecasteloand thus i'm a happy man
19:49.32andrecastelomadant, castelo = castle :)
19:49.45brlcadmadant: the game has an quite an appealing advantage :)
19:49.48madantandrecastelo, i used to love both :) bunking classes and doing work in between semesters :P
19:50.30madantis not at all a gamer :D == feels stupid about pushing keys and moving the mouse imagining you are in a different world
19:50.30andrecasteloi felt demotivated this last semester, had some really bad teachers
19:50.57hippieindamakin8madant, but u should try playing bzflag dude
19:51.06madantandrecastelo, aah.. nice :) well Dawn = dawn, Thomas = twin .. :P
19:51.08andrecasteloi tried bzflag but i do not have good reflexes
19:51.36madantis pretty sure he would suck at games too ;)
19:51.37hippieindamakin8andrecastelo, neither do i . but it is fun with that arena and those options :)
19:51.40CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34146 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 7 dirs): peanut butter release time, peanut butter release 7.14.6 with a baseball bat
19:52.00madantah what the hell :)
19:52.10madantis installing bz
19:52.15hippieindamakin8the only games i play are "frets on fire" and "bzflag"
19:52.21starseekerblinks - peanut butter with baseball bats?
19:52.32hippieindamakin8madant, put the server as bzf.bzflag.net
19:52.56madantok :)
19:52.59hippieindamakin8madant, the lag from there was minimal when i was playing bzflag in bangalore
19:53.58madanthippieindamakin8, thanks :) hope i don't get addicted
19:54.12CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34147 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/g_diff/g_diff.vcproj: g_diff needs libtclcad, oops on r34146
19:54.23brlcadnotes that starseeker definitely needs some peanut butter jelly time
19:54.25hippieindamakin8madant, it is very rarely that some one joins tht game
19:54.29pacman87you all up for a bzflag game?
19:54.45brlcadpacman87: hah, wish I could
19:54.52brlcadlater today, sure
19:55.00brlcadpacman87: who all'd you apply to?
19:55.06pacman87just here
19:55.15madantpacman87, hehe .. break from 6811 ;)
19:55.20brlcadah, okay, cool
19:55.39pacman87i realized the bzflag cheat prevention really needs the modularization of game logic
19:55.46pacman87so the server can use the same code as the client
19:56.25brlcadit doesn't "really" need it, but it would greatly help it
19:56.44brlcadi had started more in-depth cheat preventions years ago with server-side dr and shot tracking
19:56.57brlcadbut my goal was a networking optimization so I never committed it
19:57.20pacman87unfortunate
19:57.28brlcadas there was a net problem with players teleporting across the server (it was a packet culling technique based on how close the other players were from you)
19:57.41brlcadmade network use nearly linear
19:58.11brlcadwould have allowed bzflag servers to support something like 100 players on a server that today can only support about 12 playesr
19:58.20pacman87impressive
19:58.26brlcadif it wasn't for those damn teleporters :)
19:58.36brlcadthen I got sidetracked before I finished implementing waypoints
19:58.43pacman87you'd have to do something like Portal
19:58.47brlcadbut the basic logic for server-side cheat checking was easily doable
19:58.48hippieindamakin8brlcad, but the teleporters add much more fun to that game ;)
19:58.57madantgrr... what is a good bzflag approach on TwinView :) windowed mode
19:59.11pacman87madant: use top/bottom
19:59.19pacman87and you can get the radar to fill the second screen
19:59.21brlcadmadant: code up something better
19:59.29pacman87set opacity to full
19:59.35pacman87and size to max
19:59.48madantpacman87, :) seems like u ar sitting at a battlestation ;)
20:00.06pacman87you may need to set the radar size in your conf file
20:00.19madantyeah i need to do some tinkering :)
20:00.32madantbrlcad: :) hopefully when i get addicted to the game :D
20:00.44pacman87if you want to play, let me know
20:01.02madantpacman87, sure :) brlcad plays a lot too ?
20:01.16pacman87not that i know of
20:02.18pooliobrlcad: do none of your supervisors read the commit messages? :P
20:03.09pacman87madant: my.inexplicably.org:5156
20:03.10starseekerbrlcad:  dunno what that means and maybe I'm better off that way ;-)
20:08.17CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34148 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/BRL-CAD_db_format.xml: Add content for spec up to tables in Padding and Length Rounding - need to check those more carefully before redoing.
20:14.00brlcadmadant: used to play a lot (one of the best, actually), but not in a long time
20:14.46brlcadpoolio: it's an open source project, meritocracy rules the code, devs do as devs do
20:15.49madant:) i got quicked out for jitter
20:15.54madantjust now
20:16.11brlcadshakes head at starseeker .. next you'll be telling me that you don't know what "badger, badger, badger" means too
20:16.33starseekereh?
20:16.39brlcadslaps forehead
20:16.55madantpacman87, unable to connect :)
20:17.15pacman87madant: in bzflag?
20:17.34starseekerhas the distinct sensation of being back in high school listening without comprehension to the slang of his peers ;-)
20:17.36brlcadyou have some google homework, your lady will probably find it funny :)
20:17.40madanti mean i connected to bzf.bzflag..
20:18.00pacman87sorry, it's port 5161
20:18.08madantah ok :)
20:18.56starseekerI dunno... her sense of humor is not to be trifled with
20:20.43MalyceBRL, I can't seem to be able to post on the 'brlcad-devel@lists.sourceforge.net' list
20:20.48Malycealthough I subscribed
20:21.48Malyceah no, I see
20:21.50Malyceits ok
20:25.08starseekerHmm - BNF description of VRML 2.0 - cool  http://graphcomp.com/info/specs/sgi/vrml/spec/part1/grammar.html
20:26.02starseekeridly contemplates the creation of a BNF definition for .g files, wonders if the spec has enough info to make one...
20:33.18brlcadstarseeker: sure does, but wouldn't likely be efficient in the least
20:33.27brlcadhave thought about it before too, though
20:33.32brlcadwould be neat in itself
20:33.48brlcadjust not too incredibly practical for binary files
20:35.02madantpacman87, :) i guess my brain has to get used to watching 3d rendered motion :D ( last game i played was probably 5 years ago :P)
20:35.12pacman87ah
20:35.17starseekerformality might be useful as a framework though
20:35.18pacman87it's a good start
20:35.25pacman87there's hope for you yet :P
20:35.40madant:P
20:35.48pacman87madant: you could always just make your radar really big
20:35.53pacman87and ignore the rest of the screen
20:35.59pacman87then it's back to 2d motion
20:37.55starseekerdistcheck good on the mac
20:39.04madantpacman87, yeah.. i feel like that is the best approach for me :d
20:39.58pacman87try some of the big/popular maps at the top of the list
20:40.03pacman87and don't get discouraged
20:44.12*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
20:44.13brlcadstarseeker: cool, thanks
20:44.29Malycehey BRL, I am having a problem compiling on Cygwin
20:44.36MalyceI ran the configure script
20:44.49MalyceAnd the first time, it told me that X11 wasn't installed
20:45.22MalyceInstalled X11, reran script. It now says X11 is enabled, but Xi library was not found
20:45.58MalyceI followed the guide at: http://gears.aset.psu.edu/hpc/guides/cygwin/
20:46.50MalyceCouldn't do the last step, since for some reason Cygwin setup didn't install the startxwin.bat file
20:47.05MalyceWorkarounds ?
20:47.10brlcadinstall it by hand?
20:47.28MalyceThe Xi library ?
20:47.34brlcadyou can disable all X11 stuff if you don't mind not having a gui
20:47.52Malyceyes
20:47.55Malycethat would be great
20:47.59Malycehow ?
20:48.06brlcad--without-x11
20:53.23Malyce./configuration --witout-x11 ?
20:53.25Malycewithout
20:54.10pacman87./configure --without-x11
20:57.16pacman87and you'll probably have to run 'mged -c'
20:58.53Malyceno, won't be running mged
21:01.11*** join/#brlcad dreeves (n=IceChat7@67.130.253.14)
21:01.13starseekerbrlcad:  OK, Good on 64 bit linux too
21:05.13Malyce"Warning: Neither YACC parser nor LEX scanner was found." Will this affect Core C++ Interfaces or librt stuff ?
21:06.28MalyceAlso "Floating point implementation is not IEEE754 compliant. htond and htonf may be incorrect"
21:06.53brlcadMalyce: no
21:10.04CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34149 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: keep with a lot of objects in mged isn't working right. just prints out a usage statement. I haz test case. reported by lee and verified.
21:13.13CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34150 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS:
21:13.13CIA-40BRL-CAD: verified another bug in the facetize -n commmand with lee where it is giving
21:13.13CIA-40BRL-CAD: spurious 'color index out of range' errors on (at least) some 3-manifold
21:13.13CIA-40BRL-CAD: surfaces. the painting algorithm in nmg_manif.c seems incomplete/flawed.
21:14.44CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34151 10/brlcad/trunk/ChangeLog: last thing, update Changelog with items since 2009-03-06, ready to tag.
21:19.52MalyceWarning: Can't figure out how to do Dynamic loading or shared libraries on this system
21:19.54MalyceBad ?
21:27.22brlcadpretty bad, but not fatal -- did you run autogen.sh ?
21:29.37Malycebefore ./configure ?
21:29.39brlcadyes
21:29.41MalyceI think I tried
21:29.45brlcadheh
21:29.51Malycedidn't work for some reason
21:30.09MalyceI am 'make'ing right now
21:30.09brlcadgiven you're on a relatively obscure configuration, that's probably why you're getting that message
21:30.23brlcadyou need a set of the gnu autotools that has been made for cygwin
21:30.36Malyceshould I stop, and restart ?
21:30.48brlcadplus, you should be working from svn, not a source tarball ;)
21:30.51brlcadI would
21:31.01brlcadyou can keep struggling if you like
21:31.11brlcadsee if you get enough built to test a patch
21:31.22Malyceright, so first I should get the autotools
21:31.28Malycesecond, checkout svn
21:31.31Malyceand then retry
21:31.33Malyce?
21:32.24brlcadyeah, ideally
21:35.08MalyceAutoconf, Automake and libtools, all three ?
21:35.50brlcadyes
21:36.08brlcadand they in turn will want m4 and perl, maybe other minor deps
21:44.19Malyceno pain, no gain
21:46.24CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34152 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (2511 files in 220 dirs): merge trunk to STABLE from r33968 through HEAD r34151 for release 7.14.6
22:00.32*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-155.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
22:14.20CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34153 10/brlcad/tags/rel-7-14-6/:
22:14.20CIA-40BRL-CAD: tag release 7.14.6
22:14.20CIA-40BRL-CAD: tested: source build, binary mac 32-bit intel, binary linux 32-bit intel, binary linux 64-bit amd, binary linux 64-bit ia64/altix
22:24.52pooliobrlcad: sweet :)
22:25.27madantyay :)
22:25.39madantis off to sleep after a very weird day and night
22:36.46*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
22:39.20*** join/#brlcad jonored (n=jonored@LAZARUS2.WIFI.WPI.EDU)
22:54.09CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34154 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS README include/conf/PATCH): update post tagging to dev version 7.14.7 (haha). this may still end up being a 7.16 release..
22:55.41brlcadthinks this has been an exhausting day
22:56.13brlcadsome of you that didn't include nearly enough detail are going to have to make edits up on the wiki.. :P
22:56.24brlcaddidn't post early enough to get a good review
22:56.47brlcadstupid that the app prevents edits, but we'll deal
22:57.30madantwe shall overcome :D
23:08.14brlcadso it looks like we get a preliminary slot count on the 7th
23:09.25*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.6 posted (20090403) || GSoC2009 Next Step: we're reviewing applications, preliminary slot count on 7th, selections announced on the 15th
23:09.54madant11 action-packed days
23:11.59madantis sleep-deprived and high on orange juice
23:13.23madantbrlcad: what is the maximum possible number of slots ? the total number of registered mentors ?
23:31.14*** join/#brlcad jonored (n=jonored@LAZARUS2.WIFI.WPI.EDU)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090404

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090404

00:50.49CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Pacman87 07http://brlcad.org * r1355 10/wiki/User:Pacman87: Updated to include 2009 GSoC proposal for discussion
01:03.37madantstill envies pacman87 last year renderings ;)
01:03.59madantstill evnies pacman87's last year renderings ;)
01:25.26bjorkintoshtwice!
01:34.58madantproduces a lot of IRC Vomit for a 1 channel irc person
02:45.05yukonbobevening, cadheads
02:53.00typ0my mged isn't launching
02:53.22typ0crashes with bus error on this line:
02:53.26typ0DisplayWidth(pubvars->dpy,
02:53.27typ0<PROTECTED>
02:53.59typ0in X_open_dm() of libdm/dm-X.c
02:54.37typ0pubvars->dpy value is 25268232
02:55.05typ0DefaultScreen returns 1
02:57.35yukonbobtyp0: details? Platform, BRL-CAD version...
02:57.54typ0Mac OS X 10.5.6 , brl-cad svn trunk
02:58.00typ0PPC
02:59.10typ0brl-cad has version number 7.14.5
02:59.45yukonbobthinks .6 was just published today...
02:59.58typ0yeah i already ran svn update
03:00.06yukonbob(not that I'd expact it to fix this issue...)
03:00.46yukonbobtyp0: I'm -not- a Mac guy -- have to wait for somebody else to chime in :P
03:01.09typ0;)
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03:10.36typ0DisplayWidth should return my LCD screen width ?
03:24.29Ralith|tripchecks in some more
03:29.14typ0well all the X related functions are crashing for me in this file
03:29.19typ0for some strange reason
03:37.16yukonbobtyp0: you running X, or stricly Aqua?
03:37.21yukonbob*strictly
03:37.59typ0X11, latest code from Apple
03:38.03typ0from here: http://xquartz.macosforge.org/
03:44.31yukonbobprepares to fly out...
03:44.41yukonbobhope your problem is solved soon, typ0
03:46.09typ0cheer
03:46.09typ0s
03:46.19typ0going to slee
03:46.20typ0p
03:47.52*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=500@resnet-46-102.dorm.utexas.edu)
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06:30.43hippieindamakin8good morning Ralith madant
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12:40.04``Erik*yawn*
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13:00.15brlcadno kidding
13:05.27``Erikmy yawn was just waking up, not "been awake for 8 years now" :
13:05.28``Erik:D
13:47.15MalyceUrm, I selected autoconf, automake and libtools in the installer package for Cygwin. Is this sufficient
13:47.16Malyce?
13:50.54``Erikshould be, um
13:51.06``Erikautomake should list autoconf as a dependancy
13:51.19``Erikyou might need some X compatability shtuff
13:52.02``Erikthe package has an "autogen.sh" script that will attempt to look for stuff and run the right programs to generate configure for you
13:52.30``Erikif you're on windows and you have msvc, there are msvc build packages I think in misc/
13:52.39MalyceI will be using --without-x-11
13:52.50Malycex-11 is a pain in the ***
13:52.54``Erikthat'd be --without-x11
13:53.00``Erikthere's no dash there :)
13:53.06Malycek
13:53.31MalyceI was worried about the M4 and perl dependencies that Autoconf and automake have
13:53.41``Erikwe're a unix shop (not linux, unix), so disabling X might be busted
13:53.56MalyceI did see some perl packages in the install and selected them
13:54.06MalyceI pray not
13:54.29``Erik*shrug* give it a go, if ya see problems you don't understand, throw 'em out in channel, someone will tell a something, eventually :)
13:54.55MalyceI couldn't find M4 support in the install package
13:55.05MalyceI looked under dev
13:55.13``Erikm4 is a core thing, autoconf depends on it
13:55.13MalyceI hope it is supported
13:55.25``Erikif you have autoconf, you have m4
13:55.27MalyceI hope the installer is smart enough to realise that
13:55.30Malyceok
13:57.03Malycehow do I do a svn checkout from sourceforge ?
13:57.19MalyceI heard that I shouldn't just download the GNU tarball
13:57.22``Erikum, you read the instructions on the sourceforge page.
14:00.23``Erikgot it rolling?
14:00.32``Erikum, it's /brlcad/brlcad/trunk iirc
14:01.39Malycethat's what I wanted
14:01.53MalyceThe help page on SF didn't say anything
14:01.54Malycethx
14:02.12``Eriknp, a 'source view' woulda given ya that
14:03.04``ErikI'm sure gory details are on http://brlcad.org, too :)
14:04.10Malycehttp://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/trunk iirc ?
14:04.59``Erikmy repo has https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk
14:05.35``Erikthat's an accredited account, though, yours would be http: until you get a commit bit
14:05.54Malyceyou mean become a SF member first ?
14:06.20``Erikyou must have an sf account to commit, and you must prove that you're semi-competent before you get commit access
14:06.21``Erik:)
14:06.39``Erikwe usually request a simple patch via the sf tracker
14:10.04*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
14:24.10mafmhi folks
14:28.43*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
14:33.15dreevesbrlcad did you ever get a chance to check out that patch...no big deal I was just making sure there wasn't still something wrong with it
14:35.03MalyceIsn't that the only GSOC patch so far ?
14:37.12dreevesno I'm not part of the GSOC
14:40.15brlcad~cadsvn
14:40.15ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
14:40.43MalyceWhere are the GSOC patches then ?
14:41.03MalyceI thought they would be in the SF tracker
14:41.06brlcaddreeves: I looked through it and was better -- just hadn't tested it yet
14:41.27brlcaddreeves: and nice follow up on the license/copyright check
14:41.33``Erikcan the https avenue be used by anonymous?
14:41.50brlcadI'd talked to Elaine about that paper and the work, she didn't have the source link though (and acm had since dropped it)
14:42.02brlcad``Erik: yeah
14:42.08``Erikcoo'
14:42.18brlcadit'll just prompt for user/pass on first commit
14:43.04*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
14:46.23*** mode/#brlcad [-b %*!*IriX64@*] by brlcad
14:46.37*** mode/#brlcad [-b %*!smallfoo*@*] by brlcad
14:46.53*** mode/#brlcad [-b *!*gruni@rootgeek.org] by brlcad
14:46.55``Erikwow, banned even?
14:47.07brlcadno, quiets are implemented in the banlist
14:47.14brlcadthat's the leading %
14:47.21``Erikoh, used to efnet :)
14:47.37*** mode/#brlcad [-b *!smallfoo*@*] by brlcad
14:47.43``Erikwoulda thunkt +m and +v's around
14:47.49brlcadthere, I'll get it right eventually :)
14:48.20brlcadtoo much effort, have to voice everyone instead of the one that was causing the problem
14:48.26``Erik*server migration supersubliminal message*
14:48.40brlcadand he wasn't trying to subvert it, did well
14:49.09``Erikhe's a good guy, I like him... works hard, just not a guru
14:49.30``ErikI want to help him maximize his contribution
14:49.52``Erikso he can have synergy with the, uh, cmmi, uh, buzzword, something
14:50.34dreevesbrlcad no problem on the code making sure you weren't still waiting on me for something...I have the source code for that paper if you want it
14:50.49``Erikurl?
14:52.40*** join/#brlcad Briggs (n=chatzill@adsl-70-238-154-89.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net)
14:53.13Briggsdoes brl cad have a central library for things like vectors, matrices, triangle/ray intersections/ect or are routines for these things spread across the source code?
14:53.13``Erikassigns it to brlcad :D
14:53.16``Erik*dodge*
14:53.34``Eriksorta, include/vmath.h has an awful lot
14:53.48Briggsdanke
14:54.02``Erikintersections are handled by librt
14:54.18Briggsright.
14:54.24Briggswill scour the source.
14:54.45Briggshrmm. anyone have experience browsing brl cads source with cscope? does it deal with it well?
14:55.00``Erikour geometry has negatives, we don't solve intersection until the ray is fired
14:55.19``Erikyeah, cscope works well, takes a good chunk of time to generate the hash, though
14:55.31BriggsI can always go make a cup of coffee or something :)
14:55.44``Erik~2m on my workstation
14:55.54Briggsahh thats not horrible
14:56.15``Erikdude, that's 120 seconds of starting at a blank screen
14:56.16``Erik:D
14:56.47Briggsit takes about that long to make a good cup of coffee...
14:56.49Briggs:)
14:56.54Briggsor tea
14:57.02``Erikdepends on your definition of good...
14:57.10Briggsthis is true
14:57.24``ErikI have the press and all that, but I seem to be willing to mix some instants to get my cup
14:57.26``Erik:(
14:57.37``ErikI have friends that would stab me for that
14:57.39Briggshaha
14:57.50BriggsI was going to get one of those one-cup thingies.
14:58.08Briggsbut instant is probably even less hassle.
14:58.43``Eriktell ya what, though, I have a one cup water heater, I throw a teaspoon loaded with 'mountain brew' and one general int 'french vanilla', it's a decent cup
15:06.42``Erikbrlcad: I honestly don't think you should waste your time or mine moving hunks of metal, if we can tap an m3 guy and like rich, that's be a better utilization of assets, no? I don't grok why we can't trust them with that
15:07.53``Erikwe do remote clean shutdown, they do the monkey work, hit the power buttons, we verify they came up... mebbe stop by and see that the bolts are good, it's donw
15:10.52``Erikfuck fuck fuckity fuck *pats down teh hairs that are trying to go pointy*
15:23.54mafm(obcenity overflow)
15:29.28Briggswonders why lists in python have no 'copy' method.
15:29.31Briggswhoops, wrong channel.
15:30.54*** join/#brlcad dreeves (n=dreeves@67.130.253.14)
15:32.12*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.141.240)
15:36.07mafmhi madant
15:41.57``ErikBriggs: cuz guido didn't say so? :D
16:05.22brlcadBriggs: because it's built in? listA = list() ; listB = list(listA)
16:05.54Briggsbrlcad: this is true
16:06.24Briggsbrlcad: just that python is usually consistent about these things so I was suprised to find  'somelist.copy()' didnt work
16:06.44Briggswell I guess a lot of basic builtin types dont have copy() method... hrmmm
16:06.51Briggsnevermind, was wrong channel anyway like I said :)
16:08.34*** part/#brlcad Briggs (n=chatzill@adsl-70-238-154-89.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net)
16:10.10mafmbrlcad: I've been sidetracked yesterday, I haven't completed my application. however, the biggest problem as you know is that I haven't had time to prepare for gsoc, and the projects where I could be more productive are quite vague
16:10.48mafmkind of, I cannot think of any workable plan linking the new GUI and GS if I don't know much about the details of GS, and the GUI is still to be desined and built
16:11.11mafmdesigned* even
16:11.56mafmand I think that I can still edit the application, but I guess that this would be cheating
16:20.48brlcadit's not cheating if it lets you, don't think it allows you to edit more than the abstract
16:25.16pooliowell then couldn't you just have a really really long abstract?
16:41.54madantthere is a word limit .. 500 ?
16:46.33poolioah well
16:57.27mafm500 characters
16:57.42mafmand I left blank the content too
17:00.25mafmit's not editable anyway
17:19.47*** join/#brlcad francois (n=francois@cho94-4-82-234-190-36.fbx.proxad.net)
18:04.29*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@adsl-99-147-180-206.dsl.lgtpmi.sbcglobal.net)
18:57.27*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@223.Red-83-49-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
19:15.17*** join/#brlcad Malyce (n=iamtanma@wlanaccess-ext.jacobs-university.de)
19:20.28*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
19:32.56Malycesh autogen.sh
19:33.27Malyceline 79: $'\r': command not found
19:34.35Malyceline 97: syntax error near unexpected token '$'{\r''
19:35.08Malyceline 97: 'ident (){
19:35.48Malyceis this a GBS problem ?
19:37.36*** part/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
19:37.59``Erikhuh, are you using windows or something?
19:38.07Malycecygwin on xp
19:41.31*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
19:48.13MalyceI did select Autoconf, Automake and libtools in the setup package
19:48.34Malycemebbe they are not the latest versions ?
19:48.59``ErikI imagine it's a line ending issue
19:49.28Malyceautoconf 2.63
19:49.39Malyceautomake 1.10
19:50.14``Erikhrm, svn says that file is 'native' line ending :/
19:50.16Malycelibtools 2.2.7a
19:50.27Malycewhat must I do ?
19:52.18``ErikI don't know, I'm guessing that your pull has some "not quite right" files :( I don't know, I'm sorry :(
19:53.05Malycerats
19:53.26Malyceall I want to do, is compile a couple of files from core c++ interfaces
19:53.43Malyceany workarounds ?
19:54.06``Erikwindows is not a core target, and cygwin is not the usual windows avenue for us :(
19:54.24Malycethen, what is ?
19:54.34``Erik\r is C for a line return, dos/windows kinda looks at \n as a \r\n
19:54.48``Erikmac, bsd, linux, irix, solaris, uhm
19:54.58Malycewouldn't mind switching
19:55.02Malycejust not right now
19:55.11``Erikwinderz has msvc8 and 9 proj files
19:55.32``Erikif you can figure out how to make it work on cygwin, that'd be awesome
19:55.50MalyceMaybe I will. Just, not today
19:55.57Malycewill msvc express do ?
19:56.19``Erik<-- doesn't know
19:56.34*** join/#brlcad dreeves (n=dreeves@67.130.253.14)
19:56.36Malyceperhaps I should wait till BRL shows up
19:57.22Malyceoh, btw, where do the GSOC patches go ?
19:57.29Malycenot the SF tracker ?
20:00.11``Eriksf tracker is good, mention your irc handle in the info or something
20:00.26*** join/#brlcad andax (n=andax__@d213-102-40-21.cust.tele2.ch)
20:00.52``Erikeither brlcad or I will review it and annotate internal info
20:01.21``Erikand either apply it, or hand out a commit bit and let you apply it
20:01.24``Erik*shrug*
20:01.42Malycewas just curious
20:01.51Malyceall the patches there seem to be somewhat old
20:02.04``Erikyes, we knock the easy ones out fast
20:02.13Malycewith GSOC happening, I woulda thought it would be filled with GSOC patches
20:02.34Malyceor mebbe everyone is working late like me
20:02.36``Eriksome patches are many years old, most gsoc patches don't sit more than 24  hours
20:02.46Malyceahhh
20:03.07Malyceis that because they don't do anything useful ?
20:03.15Malycejust demonstrate coding capability ?
20:04.17Malyceor because they are no good ?
20:04.32``Erikmore a factor of the time a commiter has to apply
20:04.58Malyce?
20:05.13``Erikif I can look at a patch, vouch for it and apply it in 15 minutes, it's in... if it takes a week to understand, well, I might not have a week to spend doing that
20:05.46``Erikif it's an important patch, I'll spend more time than if it's not *shrug*
20:05.54Malyceso, a patch I make should be very readable, or its out ?
20:06.19``Erikyour patch should be correct, the result code should be readable
20:06.42``Erikand it's all shades of grey, a patch readability alone is not in/out stuff :)
20:07.04``Erikget to codin'!
20:07.10MalyceI have been
20:07.18MalyceIn the time it takes to compile this thing
20:07.32MalyceHow many GSOC patches have been submitted so far ?
20:07.53``ErikI don't know, and if I did, I don't know if I should tell you :)
20:08.04MalyceI see
20:08.08Malycewhy not ?
20:08.29``Erikfor which?
20:08.41Malycewhy if you knew, you wouldnt tell
20:09.01``Erikthe latter, I don't want to foster a competitive environment, I don't think gsoc is about winners and losers
20:09.16Malyceits not ?
20:09.20Malycehahaha
20:09.54MalyceA 5000 dollar internship *is* about winners and losers
20:10.05Malyceright now, I am struggling not to be the latter
20:10.14Malycesorry, 4500 dollars
20:10.16``Erikwell, they're flexible, their goal is to see good things done, and yeah, $5k is a nice little bump, but that's not the point of it, that's just a carrot
20:10.29Malycepretty juicy carrot
20:10.44``Erik5k, 4.5 to the student, .5 to the mentor (but we waive the mentor $'s)
20:11.26Malycedoes the .5 then go to BRL-CAD as an org ?
20:11.31Malyceor is it just gone ?
20:11.42``Erikdo up your patch, do your application or two, we discuss the merits of the projects and people
20:11.54``Erikwe waive it, we don't accept it at all. google keeps it
20:12.16Malycewhy ? its not like google needs more $
20:12.27``Erik$500 is not worth the liability of for pay activities combining with gov't work
20:12.51MalyceI see. There are too many strings attached ?
20:13.03``Erik*shrug* it's a risk
20:13.35``Erikmy salary is tax dollars, so getting paid by google is ... double-charging effectively
20:14.03Malycewhat is your line of work ?
20:15.00``Erikcomputer scientist, us army research lab, survibility/lethality analyses directorate, software development branch, advanced computer systems tema
20:15.38MalyceYou are one of the original BRL-CAD ppl ?
20:15.44Malyce*GASPS*
20:15.48``ErikI've been accused of being a real computer scientist, not a sofwtare engineer
20:15.52``Eriknot original, but on the team
20:16.07MalyceI see
20:16.15MalyceYes, they are very different things
20:16.28MalyceI am more of the opposite
20:16.42Malycealthough I am supposed to be a CS, I am becoming a CE
20:17.14``Erikyeh, pointy hairs like sloc, not idea pontification
20:17.16mafmMalyce: re:gsoc patches: you can see that in the patch manager of sourceforge, with a bit of guessing
20:17.33Malyceis brlcad also one of the founding ppl ?
20:17.45Malycemafm: Yes, I did that yesterday
20:17.55MalyceI am a curious crow
20:17.57``Erik10 days of grunt coding seems more impressive to them than lava lamp meditation for 5 days and 2 days coding
20:18.21MalyceCS is *hard*
20:18.34``Erikbrlcad is the dude kinda being our point guard, but he was shitting hsi diapers when BRL-CAD started
20:18.36Malyceas hard as abstract math
20:18.46Malycei see
20:19.01Malyceare there other founding members still here ?
20:19.09``Erikno
20:19.20Malycehey, are you there in one of the pix on the site ?
20:19.23``Erikthe core guy until 2000 died in a car accident
20:19.35Malyceow
20:19.43``Erikother importnat people have retired or moved on to other projects
20:20.12``Erikpix on the site?
20:21.14``Erikif you look at ohloh, it makes things pretty obvious :)
20:21.17Malyce#!/bin/sh
20:21.17Malyce#                        a u t o g e n . s h
20:21.17Malyce#
20:21.17Malyce# Copyright (c) 2005-2009 United States Government as represented by
20:21.17Malyce# the U.S. Army Research Laboratory.
20:21.22*** join/#brlcad Malyce (n=iamtanma@wlanaccess-ext.jacobs-university.de)
20:21.34``Erikdude, http://pastebin.bzflag.bz
20:22.23Malyceoh hell
20:22.25Malycesorry
20:22.28Malycehttp://brlcad.org/gallery/d/230-2/Mike+Muss.jpg
20:22.32Malycethat's what I meant
20:22.34``ErikI came tot he lab in '03 and one of my first tasks was to rewrite teh build system from cake into automake, so those am files are all fairly new
20:22.51Malyceso, that can't be you there
20:23.07``Erikhm, no, that's mike in the chair, uh, owen something standing with the beard
20:23.21``Erikthough one of those pdp top-plates might be on my book case
20:23.36mafmMalyce: the point is that patches are public and are to be submitted there, so no need to ask :)
20:24.06Malycemafm: but there are no recent ones, except one by drreeves
20:24.25Malycemafm: it can't be that noone has submitted a patch yet
20:24.35``Erikthat's where the patches go
20:24.51MalyceErik: I remember looking at the pic last year or the year before
20:25.03Malyceand thinking, there was a time when ppl wore that to work ?
20:25.16Malyce'the suit'
20:25.16``Erikwas the 70's, man :D
20:25.17mafmMalyce: that'd be the case :)
20:25.39Malyce*GASPS AGAIN*
20:25.45Malycethat can't be right
20:26.03``Erikmake a patch, submit it!
20:26.07Malyceon it
20:26.08``Erikshut up and code!
20:26.09``Erik:D
20:26.20Malycebut its no good if I can't even compile my code, now is it ?
20:26.28Malycewhich is why I wait
20:26.28mafmthe deadline for patches is in 1 week or so, not sure -- but the sooner the better
20:26.47Malycemy problem is that I am still struggling to compile the svn checkout
20:26.59Malycenot much I can do till I get that done
20:27.06``Erikwe won't straight up say no, if you put down a patch that ain't right, we'll tell you and see about making it right
20:27.34MalyceI would be ashamed to submit something I did not feel I tried 100% to make right
20:27.40``Erikbut we'll get to some point where we sit down and try to order applicants, we have to come up with a real order and start saying "sorry, you didn't make it"
20:27.49``Erikso it's a lot better to submit early
20:28.11MalyceThen I will submit a not-yet compiled patch now
20:28.16Malyceand fix it as soon as I can
20:28.32``Erikrather you got it working, first, but *shrug*
20:29.10``Erikif a patch is JUST to make it work on a certain platform, that's a good thing
20:29.35``Erikif a patch is "I did stuff, btu nothing works", well.. what are we supposed to think about that? :D
20:29.38``Erikknow what I mean?
20:30.28mafm1. Patch doesn't compile
20:30.30mafm2. ???
20:30.36mafm3. No profit
20:30.37Malyceso I wait then, till brlcad shows up and gives me a hint on how to compile the checkout
20:30.48mafm:)
20:30.52``ErikI don't know if he can give you a hint
20:30.55Malycein the meantime, I am coding, just can't compile anything
20:31.04Malyceany suggestions then ?
20:31.05``Erikyou're not in our turf, dude, :(
20:31.19``ErikI'd imagine it's a line ending related issue
20:31.24``Erikbut that's an educated guess
20:31.35Malyceyes, I plan to burn my current machine and get one with linux
20:31.48Malycejust as soon as I get this code to compile
20:31.50``ErikI mean, windows? really? I have one windows machine, it's at work and I don't touch it
20:31.57Malycesorry
20:32.08``Erikif you can figure out how to make it work on cygwin, that'd be awesome
20:32.18``Erikbut it's not like we left it broken on purpose
20:32.24MalyceMy older machine would have been able to get linux running up and fast
20:32.28Malycebut its kaputs
20:32.35``Erikif we knew the answer, it'd be fixed in teh repo :)
20:32.42Malyceand the new one is a lightweight with SSD HD
20:32.54Malyceinstalling Cygwin typically takes 2 hours
20:33.05Malyceinstalling an OS would be a nightmare
20:33.17Malyceso, I am playing it safe for just now
20:33.25mafm:D
20:33.36mafminstalling current linuz distros takes less than 2h for sure
20:33.40Malycesorry, I am a poor student
20:33.46Malyceon a standard HD, yes
20:33.53Malycenot on flash memory
20:34.39mafmnot really :)
20:35.00MalyceI tried running VNC server on one of my lab machines
20:35.05Malycethey are all Solaris
20:35.08mafmnow, I'm not telling you to install it, and it's a bit difficult if you haven't done it before, but for sure it doesn't take that much time
20:35.12Malycebut I don't have rights on them
20:35.16``Erikwell, tell ya what, we don't care what os you run. btu this ain't a class, we're not inventing work for people, so no one has all the answer for ya
20:35.26MalyceI understand
20:35.36``Erikif you push and fix a platform we don't currently support, that's totally awesome
20:35.37MalyceI don't wanna look like a whine baby
20:35.40``Erikbut we don't invent work
20:35.45Malyceof cours
20:35.56andaxmafm: as long as you do not compile your distribution from source, it takes less than 2 hours, yes
20:36.20Malyceis there any way, I can only compile a portion of the code ?
20:36.23Malycethere should be
20:36.36mafmandax: yes well, I was not talking about gentoo :D
20:36.37``Erikhad a rhel cd that went from naked system to enterprise production system in about 15 minutes O.o many years ago
20:36.39Malyceno linking, only compiling
20:36.54``Erikum, if your'e on the automake system, I made a "depends" rule for make
20:37.32mafmMalyce: haven't you got linuz accounts in the lab?
20:37.40MalyceI guess its hands-on gcc/g++ compiling
20:37.41Malyceyes
20:37.44Malycebut no rights
20:37.51Malyce:D
20:38.01``Erikit's in misc/Makefile.defs I think, you can do, like, cd src/rt && make depends and it'll "do the right thing"
20:38.07``Erikno install dealie, tho
20:38.15Malycethat's fine
20:38.24``Erikthat'd be a great pre-acceptance patch
20:38.40Malycesarcasm ?
20:39.04``Erikno, seriously, if you make something like "install-recursive", that'd be awesome
20:39.27Malyceyou mean if I can make the thing install on cygwin ?
20:39.45``Erikor grab a linux box or whatever
20:40.09``Erikany other student looking for a patch idea, whatever :)
20:40.09brlcadMalyce: you need help on compiling?
20:40.12MalyceYes, I will hunt for one. Should be able to borrow one
20:40.14brlcadthat's not a good sign.. :)
20:40.16Malyceuh huh
20:40.24Malyceits on cygwin
20:40.30Malycei followed the steps
20:40.38Malycebut autogen.sh died on me
20:40.47brlcadis cygwin your only platform?
20:40.52Malycefor now
20:40.54``Erik\r issue on cyggy
20:40.59``Erikautogen.sh craps out
20:40.59``Erikjust back from crew? :)
20:41.12brlcadno, just been wandering around the house doing things
20:41.30brlcadwatched heroes, had lunch, took some pics, worked on the house
20:41.38brlcadgot through e-mail
20:41.40``Erikdidja read backlog? I'm hoping I didn't say incorrect stuff
20:41.48brlcadnot really
20:41.49brlcadat least not yet
20:41.56andaxthe fastest of my installation of a open source operating system was DOSminix2.0. It is DOS-dependent, therefore not a entire operating system but runs very nicely out of a Windows-Box
20:41.59Malyceok. I guess I will try stealing someone's machine then
20:42.19brlcadMalyce: you should be able to get it to work
20:42.27brlcadI've done a full build on cygwin several times
20:42.34Malycethat's great news
20:42.39Malycedo advise
20:42.46``Erikmalyce: we want cyggy and windows people, we just don't do it ourselves much
20:43.07brlcadif you have \r's in your files, then you maybe got the files in a bad way
20:43.14brlcadwhere are those sources from?
20:43.14MalyceI remember selecting Autoconf, Automake and libtools during installation
20:43.18MalyceSF
20:43.24brlcadhow?
20:43.28``Erikautogen.sh has the 'native' eol style int he repo
20:43.29brlcadfrom svn through cygwin?
20:44.02brlcadand is it a binary svn from tigris, or from somewhere else?
20:44.20Malycehttp://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk
20:44.29Malycesvn checkout
20:44.36``Erikthe svn.ex
20:44.39brlcadif you checked out with an svn built *in* cygwin, it should work just fine
20:44.41Malycethrough win xp
20:45.42``Erikno, where did you get the svn executable
20:45.42Malycesvn, exe ?
20:45.42brlcadyes.. where?
20:45.42MalyceI am using tortoise on Win XP
20:45.42brlcadthere's your problem
20:45.42Malyceshould I have done that from inside Cygwin ?
20:45.43brlcadif you're going to check out the sources outside cygwin, it makes "windows" text files
20:45.43MalyceI see
20:45.45``Erikwith the extra \r
20:45.46brlcadif you check out within cygwin, it'll make "*nix" text files
20:45.51``Erik<- points  up where he siad that :D
20:45.56Malyceha
20:45.59brlcadsee, listen to ``Erik
20:45.59Malycecool
20:46.09brlcadand don't mix your gui/cygwin tools :)
20:46.19brlcadif you do a tortoise checkout, build it with studio
20:46.24Malycenow I need to figure out how to get cygwin to connect ot the net
20:46.26Malyceallright
20:46.27brlcadwhy aren't you building with studio?
20:46.30MalyceI could
20:47.08``Eriknow I wouldn't have known that tortoise screws the pooch like that, but *shrug* \r is the issue, windows vs unix
20:47.20Malycemsvc express 2008 will do ?
20:47.22brlcadyeah
20:47.27Malyceok
20:47.27``Erikshould
20:47.36brlcadyou could even fix the problem, because probably only autogen.sh is all that needs fixed
20:47.43brlcadthe source files will be parsed okay by gcc
20:47.56brlcadcould just strip the carriages
20:47.59Malyceallright
20:48.13Malyceall 35 pages of them ?
20:48.19brlcadhuh?
20:48.24brlcadpages?
20:48.27``ErikI like the notion of a clean build on cygwin
20:48.38Malycewhen I paste the text in an editor
20:48.44Malyceit came to 35 pages I think
20:48.52brlcadpretty irrelevant number
20:48.57Malycek
20:49.19brlcadit's a shell script .. coulda made the whole thing one line
20:50.04brlcadfixes that muuss picture name
20:50.27``Erikwhat's the other dudes name? this is bugging me, I knew it...
20:50.43brlcadwas out of diapers by the time brl-cad started :)
20:51.07``Eriknot what your wife siad *coug* *dck* *run*
20:51.43``Erik'79?
20:51.46brlcadMalyce: whom all have you applied with?
20:52.07MalyceI had wanted to also apply to ptolemy
20:52.16Malycebut I decided to focus only on brl
20:52.45``Erikget a good app in, if you have time, apply to ptolemy, too... :)
20:52.54brlcadMalyce: also, several apply but don't read our application instructions either and get major points knocked off them by not submitting a patch
20:53.08Malyceisn't the deadline over ?
20:53.10brlcadalways good to keep both going
20:53.15``Eriknot yt
20:53.19Malycewhat ?
20:53.25MalyceI thought it was done yesterday
20:53.26brlcadbrl-cad's going to be pretty competitive, less than 30% chances for any individual
20:53.45brlcadthe submit-your-application deadline has passed
20:53.47yukonbobfight!
20:53.55``ErikI thought there was a bit mroe time, I thought the final cutoff was like the 20th?
20:54.08pacman87``Erik: that's the final acceptance decision
20:54.23pacman87applying deadline was friday noon pst
20:54.24brlcadthey can't submit, but tweaks and responses can still be made
20:54.44brlcadwhich was a shame.. should have given the students the weekend at least
20:54.51``Erikok, I know les threw out a "damnit, apply!" last week
20:54.56brlcadthe firm deadline bullcrap is annoying too
20:55.08brlcadat least that didn't affect us
20:55.18pacman87gov test took over my life until thursday night
20:55.28brlcadgov test?
20:55.36brlcadsomeone make you pee in a cup?
20:55.40pacman87government
20:55.47brlcadheh
20:55.48pacman87no, test on my knowledge of gov
20:55.49pacman87lol
20:55.52brlcadI know 'gov' meant that
20:55.58brlcadbut not what *you* meant by that
20:56.08brlcads/meant/mean/
20:56.16pacman87it's the only class i actually have to take to graduate
20:56.20brlcadahh
20:56.22pacman87the other ones are just for fun
20:56.26brlcadthat sounds absolutely..
20:56.27brlcadhorrible
20:56.55pacman87ie, computer architecture, concurrent/dist sys, microprocessors, and solid-state electronics
20:57.04brlcadcool
20:57.10mafmpacman87: couldn't apply?
20:57.15pacman87no, i got it in
20:57.15brlcaddistributed systems should be fun
20:57.18pacman87but it was rushed
20:57.27mafmbrlcad: it's a bit annoying specially because in past years they extended it too much
20:57.28brlcadthe rest, meh, to much CE :)
20:57.56pacman87i want to end up in embedded systems or computer arch
20:58.20pacman87i'm just taking a long way through ME to get there
20:58.52brlcaddecides to go to the grocery store just so he can get a little vitamin D on this fine day
20:58.56``Erikthose all sound fun to me
20:59.14mafmmechanical engineering?
20:59.18pacman87yes
20:59.32``Erikbrlcad: here's my grocery list O.o
20:59.41mafmmeh, the unwashed masses taking over poor CE/CS :( :P
20:59.55``Erikce and cs are wayyyyyy different
21:00.22mafmI know, but AFAIK in Europe it's mosly CE all around
21:00.47``Erikyeah, cs is misunderstood as ce here in the US
21:00.47mafmand people from any other science field taking jobs from us :D
21:00.51*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=Andre_Ca@189.71.14.52)
21:00.59Malycehaha
21:01.14mafmi.e., mathematicians working as VB mouse engineers
21:01.16``Erikwait, what? damn fuckers in india stealing jobs from teh us? what? :D *duck*
21:01.17mafmstuff like that :P
21:01.21``ErikI mean, uh, hi!
21:01.32mafm:)
21:02.06mafmjust kidding, but I have telecom eng. with me at work
21:02.11``Erikmorning, andre
21:02.16mafmand they make my life... less interesting
21:02.31mafmpreviously it was physicists... oh dear
21:02.57``Erikhm, I get to see engineers and physicists trying to write c++, it's ... interesting
21:02.58mafmgrid storage admins mounting volumes with NFS, not knowing how RPC worked internally...
21:03.42``Erikheh, yeah, beating down a screw with a hammer
21:04.39mafmnow I have telecom eng. girls trying to tell me how to interface a WS, telling me that the WS should access caller system's DB directly
21:05.41mafmso, when you access some webservice of say, amazon, they should mess back with the tables of your DB :P
21:05.47madantis a damn Indian :D
21:06.04madantfeels it is awesome to wake up at 2:30 am
21:06.18``Erikyes, dawn, I know :) kinda part of my joke there
21:06.42mafmmadant: it depends who's with you in the bed, I guess
21:06.50starseeker's jaw hits the floor in awe - unless I'm missing something, they've open sourced the REDUCE computer algebra system
21:07.08``Erikthat's too math geek for me, cliff :(
21:07.09madant``Erik, I think partly the trend is changing now .. Maybe we will have more chinese tech support in 5 years :D
21:07.31``ErikI was half considering learning indian and moving out there for a few years
21:07.32madantmafm: Indeed :D
21:07.54brlcadmadant: so you seen the jai ho music video with the pussycat dolls?
21:08.02*** join/#brlcad typ0_ (n=coder@um-sd06-125-2.uni-mb.si)
21:08.04madantSome parts are really great , "cheap". scenic :)
21:08.15madantbrlcad: not really :D
21:08.31brlcadeither of those lines humorously works as an answer
21:08.45madantbrlcad: I liked Danny Boyle's Trainspotting better ;)
21:08.46``Erikmadant: I think I"d be more interested in looking at the incredible history
21:08.53``ErikI'm a bit of a history/archeology buff
21:09.14``Erikand india is home to one of the 7 original civilzations
21:09.20starseeker``Erik:  computer algebra is for people who aren't math geeks but want the correct answers to math questions :-)
21:09.22madant``Erik, the church i sometimes go to :P is around 1200 years old
21:09.44``Erikscrew 1200 years you got the fucking oldest dock in the world, fucking 4k years old
21:09.48madanthad to study sanskrit for 5 years
21:10.11MalyceI had to for 4
21:10.18Malyceit wasn't all bad
21:10.24madant``Erik, there was even a recent discovery of something 10k years old in the indian ocean/arabian sea if i am not mistaken
21:10.28``Eriklothal?
21:10.33starseeker``Erik:  <snort> REDUCE might actually qualify as computer archeology - it's earliest development may predate BRL-CAD's
21:10.36brlcadbut is it one of the original alien-seeded civilizations
21:10.54``Eriklisp is alien technology.
21:11.30mafm10k years old? peanuts, in Iberian peninsula the neanderthals already played WoW
21:11.31madant``Erik, Lothal is still just around 5k ..
21:11.32brlcadalienware makes computers for lisp?
21:11.33``Erikall thingscomputer are history, not archeology :(
21:11.54Malycemafm: ahahahaha
21:12.19``Erikshit like lothal makes me read articles and ponder existance
21:12.29MalyceErik: Why ?
21:12.37``Erikdude, it's awesome
21:12.41madantbrlcad, also i like the song "O Saya" and the wordless "Latika's theme" much better than Jai ho :D
21:12.55starseekerdaydreams about alienware lisp machines...
21:12.58``Erikthe first known dock, cut channel and a planned city
21:12.58MalyceErik: *shrugs*
21:13.05MalyceI know
21:13.32madantand such a LONG time ago :D
21:13.34``Erikfucking dude, they had communical plumbing millenia before the western world
21:13.54mafmcommunal?
21:13.59MalyceI wanna see the Bering strait someday
21:14.02``Erikyeah, heh :)
21:14.10MalyceDon't you mean Mohenjo Daro ?
21:14.18``Erikhouses had tehir own damn plumbing
21:14.46MalyceThat's Indus valley civ
21:14.51``Erikthey waren't stupid back then, just lacked the info base we have now
21:15.12MalyceI am not sure that's Lothal though
21:15.15mafmthey didn't have youtube, so their productivity excelled
21:15.22``Erikiirc, archeologists claim there were 7 original civilizations
21:15.35``Erikindus valley was one of the earlier ones and had some of the most modern features
21:15.40MalyceLothal is supposed to be an underwater artifact, not well explored
21:15.57MalyceIndus valley was the one with the plumbing and the planning
21:16.02Malycethat we do know abt
21:16.06``ErikI thought lothal was exposed, just a town on the river
21:16.20Malycetown ?
21:16.27Malycemaybe
21:16.41Malycelet me consult the great wikipedia
21:16.58``ErikI d'no, best I've heard was that lothal krunked rome in tech and did it 1000 years earlier
21:17.51MalyceIt was part of Indus valley
21:18.02``Erikyeah, but its' the gem
21:18.06MalyceI was thinking of another submerged artifact
21:18.15``Erikno, we haven't found atlantis yet :D
21:18.22Malycehaha
21:18.36``Erikthe thing out by the straits of gibraltor, sorry, that was artifact from the boat radar paths
21:18.52Malyceno, there was a mythical city in India
21:18.53mafmGibraltar*
21:18.55Malycesort of like Troy
21:19.13``ErikI do not spell good when I'm drunk. Fuck off. :D
21:19.15Malycemyth, but whether the artifact was the same, unverified
21:19.23madant:D
21:19.40mafmyour annoying grammar fascist :P
21:20.00``ErikI'll be more of a bitch than you when I'm together, trust me
21:20.10madantis fascinated by chinese civilizations too .. it takes a hell of a people to stand 1000 year dynasties
21:20.19``Erikso, yeah, I like archeology and ancient history a lot
21:20.23MalyceDwarka
21:20.43``Erikchina is awesome, back int he 4 seasons and the warring kingdoms period
21:21.09``Erikjapan learned and integrated a lot from china, it's all awesome
21:21.19madant``Erik, and to imagine how a common writing system without a common speech system emerged is unbelievable :)
21:21.22*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
21:21.27madanteven finds it illogical at times
21:21.29Malycebut it is a coincidence that you mention Atlantis
21:21.44MalyceDwarka was supposed to have sunk as well
21:21.59``Erik<-- was just a kid, but loved going to the 'theme park' on okinawa that imitated edo period japan, plus the big holidays wehre they all got dressed up
21:22.19Malyceyou lived in Japan ?
21:22.25``Erik'85 to '88
21:22.32MalyceI want to live there someday
21:22.33``Erikaround kadnea
21:22.36``Erikkadena
21:22.40Malycewatch too much anime
21:22.44madantthink japanese women still walk funny :)
21:22.51``Erikno, I'm not a huge animae fan
21:22.55Malycemadant: what ??
21:23.06``Eriksorry, madant, I'll stop romping them so they can walk normal for ya
21:23.09``Erik*duck*
21:23.16madanthaha :D
21:23.46madantis confounded by Japan too.. How could someone close down their borders for 200 years
21:24.05madantMalyce, the kimono effect :D
21:24.08mafmoff-topic (?): Leslie on deadlines: "For all you procrastinators out there, please check out Sean's story. If you want something badly enough, you will find a way to make it happen."
21:24.11Malyceahhhhhh
21:24.20mafmlol
21:24.21Malycemafm: really ?
21:24.30mafmyep, right now in the mailing list
21:24.32madantmafm, :) what is Sean's story :O ?
21:24.47``Erikthe us closed borders for a long time
21:24.56MalyceI will only do that once I have finished with brl thoudh
21:24.57madant``Erik, the did ?
21:25.02madant*they
21:25.05``Erikww1 forced things open
21:25.10``Erikww2 make it a fact
21:25.23mafmmadant: one post @ gsoc-discuss, telling about his exams and application to Haiku I think (I just fly over posts)
21:25.50``Erikdon't screw with les, she don't take crap
21:26.01mafmit's funny that she calls procrastinators to ppl complaining about deadlines, but the ppl complaining usually are pretty stupid
21:26.39``Erikshe has mebbe a thousand people bugging her
21:26.44``Erikstep off, yo :D
21:26.53madantfeels paranoid now :D
21:27.04madantbrlcad, can you see my submitted application :D
21:27.50madantmafm, what is the name of the post ? Application Deadline /
21:27.54``Erikmentors are supposed to be the first interface, if they can't help, it goes to org admins... if they can't help, THEN it goes to les and chris
21:28.06mafmmadant: yes
21:28.43mafmSean is the guy who began the thread, Leslie has posted just now
21:28.51mafmor like 20 mins ago
21:29.20mafmcomplaints are in many other threads, though
21:29.28madant``Erik, and my comment about 1200 year old church was really that if there could be a 1200 year old church here, (there is one even roughly 2000 year old too nearby :D) , there could be a lot more ;)
21:30.04``Erikone of my bigger thrills in the US was going to cahokia
21:30.28mafm1200 for a church (building) is not very very common, but there are lots of structures older than that all around
21:30.29``Erikwas a bustling metropolis around 1100 or 1200, before european incursion
21:30.34madantmafm: argh.. i thought Sean = brlcad and was confused
21:30.35mafmall of the roman empire, for one
21:30.55mafmmadant: ah no, it was just a random Sean, not Teh Sean
21:31.10mafma lesser devil, so to speak
21:31.11mafm:P
21:32.00madant``Erik, sometimes I wonder how much things have changed since say 4000 years ago and how some things haven't :) for instance some of the works of Aristotle seems so organized so structured, it doesnt seem like something written such a long time ago
21:32.23madantexcept for the slavery etc. :D
21:32.46``Erik:) some day, I want to buy a plot of land and go start making stone tools and see how far I can get
21:32.53mafmslavery was much worse in the middle ages
21:33.05``Erikum, I'd argue that the notion of a "wave slave" carries that tradition
21:33.11mafmeverything was worse in the middle ages, in western world, really
21:33.17``Eriknot as horrible, but still a notion
21:33.20mafm(and past middle ages too, well)
21:34.41*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=500@resnet-46-102.dorm.utexas.edu)
21:34.54madant``Erik, well i think you would get pretty far :)
21:35.13``ErikI think it'd be neat to get a view into what life was like
21:35.40``ErikI've been exposed to a lot more cultural knowledge, but I think an awful lot has been lost
21:36.25``ErikI mean, y'know, ada lovelace... can I go from banging rocks to what she was doing?
21:36.29``Erikor turing? or ...
21:36.40``Erikit'd be an interesting experiment
21:37.10``Erikand I'm all over crap like ö
21:37.19``Erikhttp://primitiveways.com/
21:39.28madant``Erik, Turing unlikely :D but then again information in hindsight is ..
21:40.23madanti think reaching roughly 1700 to 1800 will be ok ok .. after that even methods of production become so specialized etc.
21:40.42MalyceYou know the shoes that Oetzi the iceman wore ?
21:40.44``Erikallz I gotta do is find ahardware store with a stock of inifinte tape rolls
21:40.55``Erikotzi, in the alps
21:40.59Malycesome shoe company tried to buy and copyright the designs
21:41.08``Erikhad an arrow head in his hip, right?
21:41.10Malyceyes
21:41.32``Erikiirc, his belt had a hidden pocket
21:41.41``Erikbig news in the archeology community
21:41.57Malycea czech company
21:41.58``Erikaround 3k old and had his skin on him
21:42.21``Eriksome german tourists saw him, cops thought he was a recent murder
21:42.42Malycelots of ppl tried to say they saw him first
21:42.57Malycethere was even a woman who claimed she spit on him when she saw him first
21:43.12Malyceso that her DNA could be verified to show that she 'discovered' him
21:43.26Malyceso far DNA analysis: 'inconclusive'
21:43.26``Erikyeah, I know the story :) there were a couple pete bog bodies that got similar attention up in ireland or so
21:43.41MalyceThe poor bastard
21:43.52Malycehe was pretty f****d up
21:43.59``Erikbut otzi is one of the oldest
21:44.01Malycewhat a way to die
21:44.23Malyceapparently he was attacked more than once
21:44.30``Erikbest I grok, he was pissing folk off, they chased him, shot an arrow in him, he ended up stopping in the snow after a while
21:44.44``Erikone theory is that he was part of a group and they ditched him
21:44.58``Erikhad a copper axe I think
21:45.09``Erikpricy blingy at the time
21:45.12Malycehe was all cut up
21:45.20Malyceand had blunt trauma
21:45.32Malyceand was shot with an arrow that hit somewhere vital
21:45.44Malyceshoulder
21:45.49``Erikhm, I recall that he was beaten up a bit, but was it was the arrow in the hip that put him dow
21:45.50``Erikn
21:45.58``Erikthought it was the hip, I may misrecall
21:46.00Malycebut, would have died even with modern medical aid
21:46.07Malyceshoulder
21:46.13Malyceso says the almighty wiki
21:46.17``Erikaight
21:46.29``ErikI"m working on memory from papers, not the almighty wiki
21:46.38``Erikötzi I thought
21:46.44``Eriknamed after the mountain
21:46.53Malyceapparently he also had companions
21:47.03MalyceOetzal alps
21:47.06``Erik*point* said that
21:47.30``Erikwhci'd be ötzal in german :)
21:47.40Malyceyes
21:47.57``Erikgerman tourists found him, right?
21:48.00MalyceI am only saying Oetz because I have switched my keyboard to english
21:48.10Malyceallegedly
21:48.10``Erikthere was a stink between germany and switzerland about him
21:49.04Malycebut the dude was pretty well equipped
21:49.07``Erikum ummmm, have you read about the jutland disc? um, copper and gold, looks like a 5k old astronomy table?
21:49.10Malycehad a lot of gear on him
21:49.25``Erikhe had bone and leather gear and an un-shafted copper axehead
21:49.26Malycenot
21:49.27Malyceyet
21:49.35Malyceand flint
21:49.43Malyceand lots of nice little trinkets
21:49.49``Erikyeah, flint and uh, moss in his belt pocket
21:49.52Malyceincluding many different kinds of moss
21:50.11Malycehe had nice clothes to go
21:50.15``Erikthe notion of a belt pocket was huge
21:50.40Malycethe wiki is empty on 'jutland disc'
21:50.40``Erikthat he had moss and flint and iron, kinda twisted the community :)
21:50.44``Erikum
21:50.48``ErikI'll find it, hold up
21:52.18``Erikfuck mighttake me some time
21:53.52``Erikhttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/__Xy7sukjiYU/SYMV9NI0P2I/AAAAAAAAALA/IDk1DKG7WHc/s320/xin_5007032416365151425951.jpg comes up and is nice, but not what I'm thinkin' of
21:54.43``Erikhttp://www.cyberia.org.uk/thedisk.html
21:54.49*** join/#brlcad Ralith|trip (i=40f692fb@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-dd22cac15d90fe56)
21:56.27Ralith|tripso, everyone get their apps in?
21:57.20Malycewhat is unique about this disk ?
21:57.38MalyceI woulda thought lots of roman stuff would have been found
21:57.46``Erik14 apps
21:58.24``Erikmalyce: it's far older than roman stuff, and provides insanely accurate astronomical info, like, unmatched until 1600 or so
21:59.01MalyceIt shows the big dipper, sun, crescent moon and a couple of boats
21:59.11Malycehow is that accurate astronomical info ?
21:59.12``Erikthere's transit info on it
21:59.15``Eriksupposedly
21:59.26Malycealthough I know that the Egyptians were into that kinda stuff
21:59.29``Erikthat ignores the heliocentric fallacy, etc
21:59.30Malycetransit info ?
21:59.37Malyceoh hell
21:59.39Malyceyou are right
21:59.44Malycewhy didn't I think of that
22:00.07Malyceso, just heliocentricity ? anything else ?
22:00.17``Erikthose dang weirdos dancing around fires and shit before good old roman culture, they knew what they were doin'
22:00.22Ralith|triplol
22:00.38Malyceanything else except heliocentricity ?
22:00.45madantMalyce, i think probably correct relative location of stars of the big dipper etc. ?
22:00.52``Erikthey had mapped correct keppler orbits, dude
22:01.12Malycethere is nothing about the position of the stars
22:01.15``Erikthey made the jump to say that the earth orbits the sun
22:01.17Malyceeven I can tell its wrong
22:01.28Malycebut kepler orbits
22:01.35Malyceand heliocentricity
22:01.38``ErikI'm assuming the translations I've read are right
22:01.47Malycethe big dipper seems wrong
22:01.50Malycefor sure
22:02.11``Erikmy impression is that these dudes had an accurate summary of the solar system long before copernicus and them
22:02.15Malycebut how the kepler orbits ?
22:02.35Malycethat implies ellipses, not circles if I remember
22:02.37``Erikthe addon side bars are supposed to be the formulas
22:02.46``Erikit went through like 4 revisions
22:02.46Malycethe boats ?
22:03.27``Erik*shrug* it's a neat artifact :()
22:03.28``Erik:)
22:04.02Malycehmmm.... must find out more
22:04.33MalyceI would have thought that all the banging by those roman troops would have made the damn thing anything, but precise
22:04.48Malycebut, cool
22:04.49``Erik´this was way before the roman conquest of the area,  supposedly
22:05.03``Eriklike, 1k years before
22:05.13``Eriknorthern touton area
22:05.16``Erikiirc
22:05.50``Erikrome was busy getting their asses kicked by the greeks and the esquatarions at that time
22:06.42Malycemy deep and extensive knowledge of the roman empire
22:06.48Malycecomes from AOE I and II
22:06.51Malyce:D
22:07.05Malyceplus the expansions of cours
22:07.18``Erikhehehe, they got the butts kicked bigtime for a long assed time
22:07.24``Erikprobably what made 'em so aggressive
22:07.45``Erikthen they went to fiat money and went all insane on expansionism, got slaughtered in the end
22:08.07Malycethey had their fun in the sun
22:08.20``Erikoh, they had a hell of a run, they were the shit
22:08.37Malyceonly beaten so far by the Mongols
22:08.38``Erikbut they went all empire and fucked shit up, couldn't sustain it
22:08.51MalyceMongols rule
22:08.54``Erikthe mongols were an annoyance, just like the carthegans
22:09.07Malycethey were more than an annoyance
22:09.17``Erikit was over-extending taht brough them down
22:09.40Malycethey were to the barbarians who settled in the ruins of the roman empire, what the barbarians were to the roman empire
22:09.41``Erikhannibal fucking shredded them, but  ended up limping back home and getting executed
22:09.59``Erikthe mongols got turf, but *shrug* they didn't kncok the might romans down, they just annoyed 'em
22:10.16``Erikfucking hannibal took rome! but rome won the war
22:10.35Malycewhy did the huns turn back ?
22:10.49Malyceahh yes, attilla had a conversation with the pope
22:11.02Malycebut those weren't the mongols
22:11.13``Erikiirc, they worked out deals and had insuffient stuff to continue the campaign
22:11.16Malycethe mongols came much later, when rome had been destroyed
22:11.40Malycethey came after germany and poland were somewhat in existence i think
22:11.43``Erikmongols were way later, western rom was gone, but they did a job on eastern
22:11.45Malyceas kingdoms
22:12.19Malycehave you seen Mulan ?
22:12.30``Erikno
22:12.38Malyceits a disney movie
22:12.38``ErikI don't watch movies much
22:12.43Malyceold classic
22:12.56Malyceabout how a chinese girl beats back the mongols
22:13.05MalyceI thought the plot was hilarious
22:13.09``Erikheh
22:14.58MalyceI am guessing that you are older than me by about a decade
22:15.06``Erikheh, probably
22:15.52``ErikI was at the very first screening of star wars. that help ya?
22:16.14Malyceholy hell
22:16.33MalyceI was at the very first screening of the remastered version
22:16.36Malyce:D
22:16.52``Erikheh :( '77, i was there, man
22:17.04``ErikI WAS THERE!!!! </60's nam vet hippy>
22:17.11Malycehaha
22:17.18Malycethat puts you at two decades then
22:17.27Malycebut you said you were a kid in 85
22:17.35``ErikI was young
22:17.43``Erikwas in diapers in 77
22:17.54Malyceok, that fixes it
22:17.59Malyceslightly over a decade
22:18.01``Erik:)
22:18.03``Erik32
22:18.10Malyceyes
22:18.26Malycebut gives you bragging rights
22:18.38Malycewait, what were you doing watching SW in diapers ?
22:19.41``Erikmy parents are geeks, they took me
22:19.50Malyceand you remember ??
22:19.55``Erikof course nto!
22:19.58Malycewow you have good memory
22:20.00Malycehuh ?
22:20.10``Erikbut, y'know, they said it, and, it's a hell of a braggin' line
22:20.45Malycehaha
22:22.07``ErikWANT MY CAR BAKC!`#!~@
22:26.02bjorkintoshwhat did you do to it?
22:26.27``Erikbumped a curb
22:27.05``Erikrental trash nd my pickup woulda just bounced, the m3 destroyed itself :(
22:27.05brlcadmafm: but still a devil nonetheless muahaha
22:29.18Malycebrlcad: he meant you were the bigger devil
22:29.53mafmbrlcad: reading your post
22:30.05mafmmadant: post alert, this time it's Teh Sean for real :)
22:34.27mafmbrlcad: good post, btw
22:35.08mafm``Erik: what's your car?
22:36.18Ralith|tripmafm: what was that site you had w/ the mailing list archives?
22:37.16mafmRalith|trip: ml archives? dunno what you're talking about :)
22:45.43madantmafm: thanks .. nice read
22:46.15madantbrlcad: awesome post :) i especially like "egregiously presumptuous" :P
22:51.24Ralith|tripmafm: well what post are you talking about
22:52.19mafmah... gsoc discuss
22:52.54mafmRalith|trip: http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-discuss/browse_thread/thread/c5ce50861adfdd74?hl=en
22:53.09Ralith|tripah, ty
22:53.30madanthmm.. 7742 members wow :)
23:02.08Ralith|triphm.  Anyone know where to find docs/tips on bit-packing?
23:11.57mafmnope
23:13.25Ralith|trip:/
23:13.28*** join/#brlcad Malyce (n=iamtanma@wlanaccess-ext.jacobs-university.de)
23:59.24mafmnight
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090405

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090405

00:18.02brlcadmadant: anderson can be quite a rude asshole if he's not kept in check (and that's not my job, but he was out of line, imho)
00:18.27brlcadmafm, thx
00:23.14*** join/#brlcad AlexandreGuedes (n=chatzill@189-92-167-255.3g.claro.net.br)
00:26.53Malycehey brl
00:27.07MalyceI was studying the examples for the primitives
00:27.10Malycearb8
00:27.46MalyceIt seems to me, that the .cpp file, ie. the core extension offers very little as an API
00:27.53Malycearb8.cpp
00:28.20Malyceit lets you basically create the arb and access the vertice data
00:28.33Malycewhile the older c file seemed to provide much more function
00:28.39Malycelike centroid
00:28.47Malycefor example
00:28.59Malycecentroid of the arb
00:29.19MalyceI was wondering whether this was the intention, or whether this was still a WIP
00:30.08``Erikmafm: e46 m3 :)
00:30.12Malycesince, I still haven't got a reply to my last mail to the mailing list, I wasn't sure how long it will take my question to get answered by Mr.Rossberg
00:30.55brlcadWIP
00:31.01Malycethere are not as many comments in the cpp file, as there are in the older c file, so I can't tell
00:31.02Malyceoh
00:31.14brlcadMalyce: with any message to the mailing list, you have to wait a couple days
00:31.19Malyceso the extension that I make can be a similar WIP ?
00:31.22brlcadmany of the devs don't work/communicate on the weekend
00:31.30MalyceI can understand that
00:31.32brlcadmany others don't work/communicate during the week
00:31.40Malycethough it doesn't bode well for me
00:31.57``Erik:)
00:32.11Malycebut I am guessing that me creating a similar WIP would then suffice
00:35.26``Erikwhat are you looking for?
00:36.50Malyceme ?
00:36.58Malycecreating code for GSCOC
00:37.32MalyceI was just understanding how Mr.Rossberg implemented primitives so far
00:39.36Malycewell, goodnight for now
01:01.54starseekeris still grooving out on REDUCE becoming FOSS
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02:19.51*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.137.188)
02:23.39madantbrlcad: huh ? ( didn't get the comment about anderson :) )
02:24.16madanton an unconnected note :) i am called a rude asshole by a lot of people :D
02:26.12madantbrlcad: ah David Anderson :) only read the whole thread now :D
02:34.13andrecastelohi cadheads :)
02:36.23madantheh.. we have yukonbob2.0 now :P
02:46.55andrecastelobrlcad: saw your mails to the gsoc list, and i liked it very much heheh
02:47.00andrecastelos/mails/mail
05:19.53starseekerah, nuts - openmoko is discontinued
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07:21.07hippieindamakin8hasnt recieved any comments yet !
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11:42.51``Erikhm
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17:06.48typ0I still can't run mged in Mac Leopard PPC
17:07.11typ0crashes in DisplayWidth() in X_open_dm from dm-X.c
17:08.09typ0i tried a simple xtest.c program to test XOpenDisplay() and DisplayWidth() after, and everything went fine
17:24.08*** join/#brlcad Malyce (n=iamtanma@wlanaccess-ext.jacobs-university.de)
17:24.21Malycehiya
17:24.25MalyceI had a thought
17:24.50Malycebrlcad doesn't have some higher primitives like lofts or sweeps
17:25.03Malyceand such
17:25.46MalyceSince the people I was working with are basically trying to create point clouds of these structures in Haskell
17:25.59Malyceusing model params I extract from Solidworks
17:26.21Malyceand since, my employers are a research institute, its all open source
17:26.49MalyceYou guys might find the stuff useful, once we are done
17:27.04brlcadtyp0: is x11 running? did you compile with/without ogl enabled?
17:27.11Malycealthough right now, we are only starting on splines
17:27.17Malyceno
17:27.24Malyceoops sorry
17:27.26brlcadMalyce: there are a couple higher-level primitives, extrusions and pipes (limited sweeps)
17:27.38Malyceyes, I saw pipes
17:27.54MalyceWe have covered extrusions already
17:27.59Malycebut so have oyu
17:28.00Malyceyou
17:28.13Malyceplus we are working in Haskell
17:28.27brlcadyeah, that'd be a problem
17:28.29Malycebut I guess, it would help in understanding the final solid
17:28.34brlcadour core libs are C for a variety of reasons
17:28.40Malycesince we only care about the point clouds
17:28.52brlcadwe also have a new point cloud primitive ;)
17:29.13Malyceno, I meant not as a primitive
17:29.39Malycethe purpose of my research was to get mathematical representations from CAD software
17:30.06Malyceso once we cover Lofts et al, the documentation from our project might come in handy
17:30.19Malycejust as a math basis
17:30.57Malyceor maybe that is already too trivial, since ppl working with BRL seem to have a lot of industry experience
17:31.34Malyceso they might already know the ins and outs of the math representations already
17:31.48Malyceof the primitives that is
17:31.53Malycejust a thought
17:36.42brlcadMalyce: for what it's worth, we don't have a LOT of features not for lack of wanting those features or even lack of knowledge on how to implement those features or for not thinking about said features
17:37.10brlcadthere is simply just limited manpower and specific priorities, so it's up to those contributing
17:49.53*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.134.66)
17:59.54brlcadso yeah, it'd be great to have those features .. just need someone like yourself to implement them ;)
18:06.57Malyceactually that's not a bad idea
18:07.18Malycebecause I suspect I might be done with my primary goal pretty fast
18:07.37typ0brlcad: i don't know, i just did the autogen.sh && ./configure && make && make install
18:07.41Malyceso I could attempt to add a new primitive as well
18:07.53typ0is there a way to know from the build result if ogl is enabled ?
18:07.58typ0and i have X11 running
18:08.33brlcadtyp0: type fbhelp
18:09.29typ0my DISPLAY env var is set to "/tmp/launch-2P5H3l/:0"
18:09.46typ0fbhelp launches a black window, and in the terminal there's no references to opengl
18:15.41*** join/#brlcad Malyce2 (n=iamtanma@wlanaccess-ext.jacobs-university.de)
18:59.22typ0is it normal to get these warnings in the end of running make:
18:59.24typ0ranlib: file: .libs/libdm.a(libdm_la-dm-ogl.o) has no symbols
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21:20.25*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
21:20.25*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.6 posted (20090403) || GSoC2009 Next Step: we're reviewing applications, preliminary slot count on 7th, selections announced on the 15th
21:36.58*** join/#brlcad Malyce (n=iamtanma@deimos.jacobs-university.de)
23:24.45CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34155 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
23:24.45CIA-40BRL-CAD: integrate a library tester into the regression suite. would be good to have a
23:24.45CIA-40BRL-CAD: simple dynamic loading tool that will take a built library and compare the
23:24.45CIA-40BRL-CAD: symbols its header says should be there. moreover, we could make sure those
23:24.46CIA-40BRL-CAD: functions will also run (with zero/null arguments) without crashing. quick test
23:24.48CIA-40BRL-CAD: shows that this should be entirely feasible and should uncover a lot of
23:24.50CIA-40BRL-CAD: inconsistency cleanup.
23:27.11CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34156 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/ (Makefile.am testlib.c): add a stubbed out library tester. far from complete, but it already is a proof-of-concept for loading a library and loading/testing symbols within that library.
23:31.15CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34157 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/testlib.c: include an example use that tests libbu functions
23:42.25CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34158 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/testlib.c: oop, there's a comment sequence in there
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090406

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090406

00:07.12Malycesvc co svn://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad-sf
00:07.26Malycesvn: can't connect ot host: Connection refused
00:07.29Malyceto
00:19.06*** join/#brlcad Ralith|trip (i=40f692fb@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-969114c0f859777f)
00:21.29Malycewhat did I do wrong ?
00:21.45Ralith|tripyou looked at it funny
00:21.48Ralith|tripwe don't allow that around here
00:21.53Malycerats
00:21.57MalyceI knew it
00:22.21Malycewas my syntax wrong ?
00:22.29Malyceor was it the repo address
00:22.58Malycesyntax
00:23.06Malycefixed
00:25.07Malycethough, I am not sure why the other one didn't work
00:25.41Malycesvn:// instead of http://
00:34.04brlcadonly certain protocols are allowed
00:34.14brlcadhave to follow the checkout instructions ;)
00:40.41Malyceand where can I read these instructions
00:41.00Malyce?
00:43.04Malyceare these SF specific  or do you mean general unix syntax ?
00:46.24brlcadMalyce: even the general sf instructions say to use http/https instead of svn
00:47.12Malyceagain, where are these instructions ?
00:47.30Malyceon the SF main page, there is news about new project. There is a help button at the bottom
00:47.38Malycebut the help is pretty useless
00:47.42brlcadMalyce: have you looked?
00:48.13Ralith|tripthe new layout does make it kind of hard to find if you don't know where to look
00:48.52MalyceI tried the first time I tried to checkout from XP
00:48.53brlcadRalith|trip: i'm not talking about hunting around the repo -- there are docs on our site and on sf.net that say exactly what to use
00:49.23brlcadi mean, if you even put "brl-cad svn" into google, it's in the top results
00:49.32Ralith|tripI was referring to the docs on source forge
00:49.33brlcadhence my question of whether he even looked
00:49.42Ralith|tripdidn't know it was that googleable, though
00:49.59MalyceI did look into the SF page, but I didn't google that
00:50.06Ralith|tripalways google
00:50.14Malycethen someone told me the repo address
00:50.19MalyceErik
00:50.21brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Building_from_SVN is the page, under our Documentation
00:50.23Malyceand it worked
00:50.31brlcadand it's been said here too :)
00:50.33brlcad~cadsvn
00:50.34ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
00:50.52Malyceis this an IRC service ?
00:51.04brlcadso... someone told you here.. don't you have logs?
00:52.33MalyceErik
00:52.57brlcadwhat about him?
00:53.03madanthmm.. another great morning :)
00:53.09brlcadhowdy madant
00:53.12pacman87hi madant
00:53.17Malycehe gave me the url
00:53.34Ralith|triptries to work out how to bit-pack floats given min, max, and desired precision values
00:53.45madanthi all :) just heading out to town .
00:53.47Malycebut i used it inside windows the first time, so i didn't have the svn:/https: problem
00:53.52brlcadMalyce, yes, you already said that.. :)  I presume over IRC?  don't you have logs?
00:54.01MalyceI should pay more attention to the brl-wiki
00:54.07MalyceI checked
00:54.47Malyceis it possible to also read the backlog when I am not on the channel ?
00:54.55brlcad~logs
00:54.56ibotAll conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged.
00:55.15brlcadit's generally better to stay on the channel, though, like via a screen session
00:55.38brlcadwith irc hilight history over a screen session, you're always on irc and can review logs/history/hilight
00:56.28brlcadi'm sure there are tutorials on the web, but basically running screen+irssi or simply leaving an irc client running and just using /away while minimizing as an alternative to screen
00:56.52MalyceI am always on IRC unless I am offline
00:57.15Malyceso, to read the backlog, I'll go to ibot
00:57.37MalyceI thought you meant the IRC client logs
00:57.39Malyceheh
00:57.56pacman87I log IRC chats through my client
00:58.09Ralith|tripdoesn't everyone?
00:58.30Malyceits auto with mIRC
00:59.05brlcadMalyce: many are *always* on IRC even when offline, that's part of the beauty of screen
00:59.28Malycehow so ?
00:59.40brlcadand I was referring to *your* irc logs earlier, but there are also general channel logs
00:59.59Malyceyou mean the url you gave just now ?
01:00.18brlcadthose would be the general channel logs
01:00.28brlcadthe one that ibot mentioned are the general logs
01:00.41Malycewhat is ibot ?
01:00.54Malycejust a channel bot ?
01:00.54brlcadan irc bot with lots of factoids
01:01.11Malyceso, you invoked it ?
01:01.12brlcada multiple-channel bot, hundreds of channels
01:01.21brlcadno
01:01.46Malycewhen does it provide info ?
01:01.53brlcadwhen you ask it?
01:02.25brlcadMalyce: I take it you're very new to IRC?
01:02.28Malycei didn't ask it anything, did you ?
01:02.31Malycevery very new
01:02.57MalyceI knew about bot's from the Basshunter song
01:03.01MalyceBoten Anna
01:03.07brlcadyou get ibot's attention with ~ or with its name prefixed to the line
01:03.08Malycethen did some wiki reading
01:03.25Malycecool
01:03.34brlcadthe bot has various tidbits of information, humor, actions, and other services it provides
01:03.35Malyce~what's up
01:03.36ibotUp is the direction away from the central point of gravity.
01:03.43Malyceahahahahaha
01:03.58Malycethis is so cooooool
01:04.41brlcadit can be very useful and entertaining, but try to keep the public usage tamed -- you can talk to it in private or in #botpark if you want to "play"
01:04.56MalyceI have a new friend now
01:04.58Malyce:D
01:05.19brlcad~malyce is very very new to IRC, but learning quickly
01:05.20ibotbrlcad: okay
01:05.37brlcadibot: malyce?
01:05.38iboti heard malyce is very very new to IRC, but learning quickly
01:05.41Ralith|tripwow
01:05.59Ralith|trip##c++ is full
01:06.06brlcad"full"?
01:06.13Ralith|tripor under attack, or something?
01:06.16Ralith|tripI got shunted to overflow
01:06.21pacman87bouncers at the door?
01:06.27Ralith|tripprety much
01:06.29Ralith|trippretty*
01:06.32brlcadRalith|trip: I got in just fine
01:06.37Ralith|triphm.
01:06.44Ralith|tripprobably filtering unregistered users
01:06.53Ralith|tripgives Ralith a sidelong look
01:07.27Ralith|tripmore likely, filtering mibbit users
01:07.41Ralith|tripoh well.
01:08.18brlcadyou're not identified
01:08.44Ralith|triphmm
01:08.49brlcaddon't remember my modes, but pretty sure one of the modes (+Pcflnrt #overflow 777) means kick you to overflow
01:09.03Ralith_yay
01:09.18Ralith_victory
01:13.20brlcadyukonbob: request pending for you
01:13.24brlcadpoolio: you too, pending request
01:20.04pooliobrlcad: gsoc stuffs?
01:20.45brlcadyes
01:20.49brlcadpoolio: are you on the devel list?
01:21.00brlcadsending out a gsoc e-mail
01:21.41Ralith_oo
01:24.18brlcadanyone who has already submitted an application -- do you get an e-mail notification if a comment is posted?
01:25.31Ralith_I don't think I've had any comments posted.
01:25.37Ralith_didn't yesterday, anyway
01:25.39Ralith_rechecks
01:26.48Ralith_there's a 'subscribe to updates button,' suggesting that such a thing might be opt in
01:27.01brlcadokay, that's good to know
01:27.19brlcadmentors get two buttons (one for public, another for private)
01:27.21Ralith_it's not clear whether that means notify on edits, comments, or both
01:27.28brlcadtediously had to subscribe to everything
01:33.40Ralith_wonders how long it takes the mailing list to get stuff out
01:36.10pooliobrlcad: woops, I wasn't :)
01:36.14brlcadi've seen anywhere from less than a minute to the next day
01:36.24brlcadpoolio: ah, okay
01:36.26brlcadthought so
01:36.31brlcadremoves poolio from the CC line
01:36.47Ralith_the next day? O.o
01:36.52poolioI just subscribed to it though
01:37.16Ralith_I guess I shouldn't bother eagerly spamming refresh on gmail.
01:37.53brlcadusually within 5 minutes
01:41.18brlcadcool, gives an e-mail and a count
01:41.33brlcadthis is gonna be a flurcking ton of e-mail...
01:43.47pooliobrlcad: err, what's going on?
01:43.56brlcadhm?
01:44.19brlcadpoolio: i was just drafting up a message about gsoc to the list, making sure all the mentors are included
01:44.35poolioah cool cool
01:44.58brlcadpoolio: you still have to confirm on socghop site too
01:45.37poolioyeah I know, I'm filling out the forms now
01:45.41brlcadit's a silly 3-way ping-pong
01:45.45Ralith_confirm?
01:45.52Ralith_poolio's mentoring?
01:46.19brlcadalways good to have backup mentors
01:46.29Ralith_cool
01:46.52brlcadanyone that's not a student could conceivably be a mentor, *especially* if they have already worked with the code
01:47.06brlcadbut even that is technically not requisite.. depends on the student/project/org
01:51.08pooliobrlcad:  I think I'm done...?
01:51.13poolioRalith_: Yep :)
01:52.17Ralith_heads off
01:52.19Ralith_back home tomorrow.
01:54.54pooliobrlcad: do you know how many slots we have yet?
02:00.28brlcadpreliminary slots will be on tuesday iirc
02:00.41brlcadbut we're not taking more than 5 regardless
02:00.53brlcadand technically as few as 1
02:08.16dreevesbrlcad I have an image of the simple brep I was wondering if you had a minute to look and tell me if it looks correct?
02:15.18dreevesI emailed and image to you
02:17.12brlcadokay
02:48.35brlcaddreeves: test case in what regard?
02:48.55brlcadis that one of the breps made from one of the proc-db tools?
02:49.18brlcadand what do you mean by "this is using the utah code"?
02:50.43dreevesyes it is brep_simple from the proc-db
02:52.01dreevesthe utah code is the code written by William Martin from University of Utah
02:52.28brlcadi'm familiar with the project
02:52.53dreevesI just didn't know if I had a good test case or not
02:53.04brlcadso you made a brep using brep_simple, then exported that out to whatever they're taking as input?
02:53.24brlcadbrep_simple is certainly a starting point
02:53.30dreevesNo I pulled the source into librt
02:53.30brlcador breplicator's cube
02:53.54brlcadso you hooked into _shot() and _prep() to hand off to their code?
02:54.00dreevesYeah I tried that one to and it looked good
02:54.34brlcadhow are you using their code?
02:54.52dreevesMore as a reference than anything
02:55.16dreevesI just replaced brep_intersect with their code
02:55.50dreevesI'm still using everything outside that
02:56.05dreevesSo did you say it looked right?
02:56.32brlcadno, it's not right, but it looks good
02:57.12dreevesYeah that is what I thought...So what's the main thing that is wrong?
02:57.32brlcadthere's errors on the back side
02:57.46brlcadthat could the the additional parity work that brep_shot() does after brep_intersect()
02:58.24brlcadif their tracer is robust, much of that may even simplify
02:58.28dreevesAre you talking about what looks like the little dots
02:58.43brlcadright
02:58.46dreevesok
02:58.54dreevesYeah I noticed that
02:59.07brlcadthere are various edge cases that have to be accounted for
02:59.46dreevesYeah let me go take a look at that
02:59.46brlcadwhere any two surfaces join, where trimmings join, grazing tangentially to a surface, going through a corner, going through multiple corner/edges, etc
03:00.01brlcadI'd start by simplifying brep_shot()
03:00.19brlcadyou should also probably be working on a branch so your changes can be tracked/seen/shared
03:00.21dreevesYeah that is what I'm going to take a look at
03:01.46dreevessure
03:03.45brlcadyou could start by checking the a_onehit flag in shot() -- if that is set, you only need to know the first/surface hit and can return quickly
03:03.52brlcadthat will give better optical renderings
03:04.02brlcadthen if a_onehit is not set, return all hit segments
03:04.19brlcadwhere you'll need to know when you go in/out through the solid
03:04.51brlcadthat skewed cube is a good example because you can get two segments if you shoot through that tip and through the main body
03:05.31yukonbobreads scrollback
03:07.44dreevesok I will play around with it
03:12.44brlcaddreeves: okay, you have commit access
03:12.49brlcadbe sure to read HACKING in detail if you've not already (particularly with respect to commit acces and responsibility)
03:13.16brlcadsuggest you commit as you work to a branch for now for that thread of work
03:13.37brlcadmaybe /svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/branches/utah_brep or something
03:14.33starseekergets REDUCE (sort of) working - yet again Emacs is the default interface :-/
03:18.10dreevesok brlcad I will commit soon
03:18.56starseekerWhen you stop and think, it really is incredible how much mathematical crunching power can be downloaded for free these days :-)
03:25.49brlcadstarseeker: you've made the same mistakes I've been making
03:25.54brlcadhave to repost your comments
03:25.58brlcadthey're private by default
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03:36.03brlcaddreeves: shared your image with the mailing list
03:36.15dreevescool
03:36.34dreevesMaybe I should get on the mailing list
03:41.08brlcaddreeves: on second thought, forget using a branch -- just work on trunk for now
03:41.26brlcadwe can work out what to do about a conflict when one arises
03:41.51brlcadin the meantime, maybe just have #ifdef sections for old/new
03:42.23dreevesYeah I'm trying to be careful to minimize the existing code I touch for now....once things look right I will clean up
03:42.24brlcadbrep is all WIP so it's not subject to controls beyond what we need to collaborate, so might as well use trunk
03:42.54dreevesHey how do I get on the mailing list I know I have seen it somewhere but I can't find it now
03:42.56brlcadplus this is priority, and i'm frankly surprised that you got it working that easily
03:43.17brlcadi'm like 80% sure that acne you saw is probably a bug in the existing code
03:44.00dreevesYeah I still have more to do in the trimming department there
03:44.20dreevesI think I know what is going on with the acne problem
03:44.39dreevesFirst things first is to clean up trimming
03:52.07pooliodreeves: purty image :D
03:52.11brlcadi'm actually not convinced that's trimming
03:52.48brlcadthose are outer-trim surfaces where the trims match the edges (i.e. nothing to trim)
03:53.07brlcadthat's why it's 80% that it's something on our existing side
03:53.14brlcadi.e. in the parity checking
03:53.53brlcadeither point collapse/merging or it really is missing both surfaces numerically
03:54.36brlcadand please do commit asap, would like to test this out as well :)
04:01.41dreevesOk I will
04:01.53dreevesSo how do I get on the mailing list?
04:03.17dreevesnm I found it
04:03.20louipcI think you need to sign up on sourceforge
04:55.24starseekerbrlcad:  ah, thanks
04:57.16starseekerdreeves: nice work!
04:59.24dreevesthanks
05:00.41dreevesStill issues but I think we are getting closer
05:08.20dreevesbrlcad those spots are being caused by the shader...seems like the surface normals are messed up
05:30.29dreevesOk fixed the spots they were caused because I had my root finder tolerance set too low up'd it and spots went away
05:34.38dreevesbrlcad sent you an updated image with spots gone...working on trimming some
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05:55.35dreevesbrlcad btw in your message I think you said it lacked some optimizations I assume you are talking about ray/plane optimization, it does have that in it
05:56.11dreevesI will try to commit tomorrow night latest and then you can check it out for yourself
05:56.31dreevesmaybe tonight if I get the trimming stuff straightened out
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08:55.53brlcaddreeves: the optimizations I'm thinking of are actually the ones in the 2006 paper that made nurbs raytracing interesting in the first place :0
08:56.29brlcadusing vectorized evaluation and compact representation to get interactive results
08:57.25brlcadgiven you have something, I'd hope you'd already commit what you have
08:57.42brlcaddoesn't need to be complete and tells a better story the more little steps you break it up, even if there are 500 intermediate steps before it "works"
08:58.10brlcadhelps others to understand the code by watching the work in progress, mistakes and changes all
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10:56.15mafmhi
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11:44.10brlcadhowdy mafm
11:45.18mafm:)
11:45.55mafm-> Today Debian gets one step closer to really becoming 'the universal operating system' by adding two architectures based on the FreeBSD kernel to the unstable archive.
11:46.10mafmOne Swirl To Rule Them All.
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13:10.20CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03ddreeves70 * r34159 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: This is code that works well with the test cube
13:11.19dreevesbrlcad I committed but the trimming isn't there and there currently is a hack in it that I think is need because the trimming isn't there  I have the code for trimming I believe but haven't had a chance to work on it
13:12.27dreevesbrlcad I have my editor settings hopefully set to comply with the rules outlined in the HACKING guide if you spot please let me know
13:13.11brlcaddreeves: cool
13:13.13dreevesalso I haven't had a chance to read the rules on committing (well I scanned them).  I just scanned through that because I didn't have commit access at the time
13:13.30brlcadrules for committing are pretty simple
13:13.34brlcaddon't break stuff
13:13.37brlcadand when you do, fix it ;)
13:13.49dreevesI think I can handle that
13:14.15brlcadconsistency updates are always good as are other cleanups through the code -- shouldn't be mixed in with logic changes if you can help it though
13:15.10brlcadyou'll find all sorts of styles throughout, it's a bit of an on-going cleanup to make everything consistent but they should minimally be self-consistent within a given file
13:15.27dreevesI will try...but to be honest I usually scan the code right before I commit and I haven't had the chance to do that on this code because I wanted to go ahead and commit
13:15.44brlcadalso we work on a monthly iteration cycle for releases, so commits should "slow down" near the end of the month and be more focused on just bug fixes and cleanup or holding until the release is tagged
13:15.53dreevesYeah I have noticed that
13:16.30dreevesDo you want me to go ahead and commit the code for the extrude or well you still handle that via the patch?
13:16.43brlcadi'll can still handle that
13:16.48dreevesok
13:17.01brlcadsomething I wanted to look into with that anyways, let you know if I change my mind :)
13:17.01dreevesWell I'm off to my day job :)
13:17.06brlcadcya!
13:17.08brlcadand thanks
13:17.11brlcadcool progress
13:17.21brlcadoh, last commit 'note'
13:17.28brlcadyou can't really commit too frequently
13:17.35dreevesthanks needs work...I did
13:17.37brlcadbut you can certainly commit too infrequently
13:17.46dreeves:)
13:19.00dreevesI have 2 issues in the code you that I think once addressed we will be able to handle the complex geometries...One is trims and the other is a big ole fat hack in the shot code
13:19.25dreeveslater...
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13:33.52_sushi_Anyone knows how to force CUPS to print A4 instead of A4 cut off to Letter size?
13:34.08_sushi_I switched from Letter to A4 in already about 3 different config files and restarted cups and still doesn't work
13:34.24_sushi_cd /etc
13:35.26_sushi_replaces all occurences of "Letter" on /dev/hda with "A4"
13:36.54_sushi_Lol: DefaultPageSize, DefaultPageRegion, DefaultImageableArea, DefaultPaperDimension
13:37.27_sushi_sets the dimension of all conceivable objects in the Universe to A4
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15:59.10brlcadcomments for most of you on the socghop site
15:59.14brlcad(students)
16:02.52pacman87goes to check
16:03.19hippieindamakin8hasnt found any
16:03.34brlcadhippieindamakin8: you're one of the few remaining, patience :)
16:03.47hippieindamakin8brlcad, sure :)
16:03.52starseekerbrlcad: ah, thanks for restating my question
16:03.55brlcadyours was longer and I'm getting fatigue :)
16:04.06brlcadstarseeker: just the one, dont' know if there were others
16:04.24brlcaddoesn't like the html-enabled comment box .. pastes should be plain-text
16:13.18pacman87same thing happened to me when i pasted my application
16:20.48brlcadhippieindamakin8: fwiw - a lot better than last year, but still a lot of issues to sort out too
16:20.53brlcadlet me know if you have any questions
16:22.06Malycehey brl
16:22.09Malyceread the comment
16:22.12brlcadhowdy Malyce
16:22.14Malycehow do i get onto the wiki
16:22.19Malycedo you mean the brl wiki ?
16:23.34hippieindamakin8runs to look at the comment
16:23.47typ0brlcad: any comments on the IGES converter ?
16:25.11``Erik<PROTECTED>
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16:40.38hippieindamakin8brlcad, do i discuss with you out here ?
16:40.59hippieindamakin8or do i put up a reply out there on melange ?
16:41.10brlcadhippieindamakin8: yes
16:42.16hippieindamakin8brlcad, the precision computation is worth it for getting the exact vertices and the edges.Though i did propose on simplifying the sturm sequence solving process by approximations
16:42.33hippieindamakin8ESOLID does it without any approximations.
16:43.44hippieindamakin8because we need to have the vertices and edges right for the intersections.but again like the paper on ESOLID says some are rendered without this precise computation with a good tolerance
16:44.10brlcadtrue, though they still take "forever" in comparison :)
16:45.09hippieindamakin8brlcad, approximations like formulation of low degree equations for sturm sequences with precise computation is halfway between these two
16:45.23hippieindamakin8two == ESOLID and BOOLE
16:45.25brlcadbasicaly, right almost all the time -> very slow  OR  right only some of the time -> fast
16:45.42hippieindamakin8brlcad, yeah :)
16:46.26brlcadbut was boole's "failing" something that could have been solved with better book-keeping or failure detection/recovery on top
16:47.31hippieindamakin8brlcad, how is that ?
16:48.48hippieindamakin8dint get the word book-keeping in this context :|
16:49.06brlcaddreeves: question for when you see this -- curious, what sort of performance difference was there between what is previously/currently implemented and having utah do the eval?
16:49.33brlcadhippieindamakin8: keeping track of a graph/stack/tree/whatever of decisions that are made about the topology
16:49.48hippieindamakin8brlcad, aah
16:50.22brlcadso you decide A==B and later run into degenerate geometry .. maybe if the tolerance was locally constrained and A!=B it would have worked
16:51.05brlcadkeeping track of the topological decisions seems (to me) like a very strong way to have failure recovery while still searching a solution space very quickly with imprecise numerics
16:51.23brlcadyou only work harder if you're degenerate or within ambiguous tolerances
16:51.24hippieindamakin8brlcad, i completely agree with that point
16:51.48brlcadit's just a lot harder to code it that way :)
16:52.05hippieindamakin8brlcad, its worth a try aint it ? :)
16:52.25hippieindamakin8degenerate cases are the worst
16:57.35hippieindamakin8brlcad, i ll update the application/append another comment on the appspot
17:00.17dreeves2brlcad I didn't really keep up but seems like the utah was a little faster until I up'd the tolerance (but again this is just feel not by the numbers)
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17:05.04dreeves2brlcad if you responded to my last comment I didn't see it because I'm having to use the web interface to irc...I need to get irc working from here but haven't taken the time to investigate
17:05.53pacman87dreeves2: you didn't miss anything
17:06.12dreeves2did you see my comment about speed?
17:06.55pacman87dreeves2: brlcad I didn't really keep up but seems like the utah was a little faster until I up'd the tolerance (but again this is just feel not by the numbers)
17:07.54brlcadhippieindamakin8: okay
17:08.02dreeves2thanks that is it
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17:10.46*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.6 posted (20090403) || GSoC2009 Next Step: we're reviewing applications, preliminary slot count on 7th, selections announced on the 15th
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17:15.28brlcaddreeves2: that's kinda scary actually, because the current implementation is basically dog-slow :)
17:15.36brlcadbut certainly workable
17:15.46brlcadif it works, that will be the biggest factor
17:16.52brlcadwanders off for a bit
17:24.58dreeves2brlcad yeah I'm sure there is a ton of work to optimize and make fast.  Like I said I didn't really look at numbers or pay attension.  My focus was completely on getting the intersections right.  There are several things that I noticed that could speed it up but I want to get it fully functional first then worry about performance
17:25.55starseekernods vigorously :-)
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18:01.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34160 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Convert bolt man page to docbook
18:23.28CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34161 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Convert gastank man page to docbook
18:36.45CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34162 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Convert handle man page to docbook
19:02.10brlcadstarseeker: as entire dirs are done being converted, should remove the manpage copies in that dir so we have minimal duplicates to keep updated
19:02.37starseekerbrlcad: right
19:02.49starseekerin this case, doing it as I go - that ok?
19:03.13starseekerif fewer commits is better, I can wait
19:03.47brlcadnothing to do with commit count, just more as a progress measure
19:03.55starseekerah, k
19:03.59``Eriklooks at doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ and src/rt/ O.o
19:04.10brlcaddidn't know you were removing as you went -- there are a few in there that haven't been removed iirc
19:04.23starseekeryeah, I need to do a bit of cleanup
19:04.25brlcad(e.g. rtarea came up when richard was working on it)
19:04.31starseekernods
19:04.41brlcadjust don't want to get into an indeterminate state with mixes
19:04.49starseekerI'll pick off the strays once I get through shapes
19:05.11brlcadeither dir at a time, or keep 'em in sync so we know what is left to do at a dir/file level
19:05.20``Erikimagines uninstall would fail right now due to that
19:05.46starseeker``Erik:  ok, ok I'll do it now ;-)
19:05.55brlcad``Erik: uninstall doesn't fail on missing files (at least the automake uninstall doesn't)
19:06.09``Erikah, it uses rm -f?
19:06.17brlcadyeah
19:06.29``ErikI know the bsd pkg_delete gets bitchy on missing iles
19:06.35``Erikfiles, or fiels with changed md5sums
19:07.08``Erikbut that should go clean, since it generates a manifest after install is complete
19:07.11``Erik*shrug*
19:07.15``Erikstops blabbering and codes some
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19:09.15brlcad~seen jdoliner
19:09.18ibotjdoliner <n=jdoliner@c-68-51-76-57.hsd1.il.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 3d 20h 42m 54s ago, saying: 'k nm found it'.
19:21.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34163 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (24 files in 7 dirs): Remove old man pages that have been incorporated into the docbook system.
19:21.47starseekerthere we go
19:29.13CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34164 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Convert picket_fence man page to docbook
19:39.35CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34165 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/bolt.xml: Whoops - fix bolt author.
19:40.57mafm~starseeker++
19:41.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34166 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Convert window man page to docbook
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19:46.55*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.6 posted (20090403) || GSoC2009 Next Step: we're reviewing applications, preliminary slot count on 7th, selections announced on the 15th
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19:53.53*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.6 posted (20090403) || GSoC2009 Next Step: we're reviewing applications, preliminary slot count on 7th, selections announced on the 15th
20:01.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34167 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (bolt.xml gastank.xml handle.xml window.xml): it's window_frame(1), not winfrm(1)
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20:07.40Malycehi
20:07.52MalyceI tried compiling on ubuntu
20:08.06madanthowdy Malyce
20:08.08madantand ?
20:08.09Malyceautogen.sh gives autreconf and libtoolize failure
20:08.38Malycewhat should I do ?
20:09.15madanthmm.. weird.. pastebin error message ?
20:10.00Malycethis is what i get
20:10.01MalyceReading package lists... Done
20:10.01MalyceBuilding dependency tree      
20:10.01MalyceReading state information... Done
20:10.01MalyceE: Couldn't find package autoreconf
20:10.32Malycesorry
20:10.37Malycei posted the wrong messages
20:10.42Malycethis is what i get ..
20:10.45MalycePreparing the BRL-CAD build system...please wait
20:10.45MalyceFound GNU Autoconf version 2.63
20:10.45MalyceFound GNU Automake version 1.10.2
20:10.45MalyceFound GNU Libtool version 2.2.6
20:10.45MalyceAutomatically preparing build ... Warning: autoreconf failed
20:10.45MalyceAttempting to run the preparation steps individually
20:10.47MalycePreparing build ... ERROR: libtoolize failed
20:11.23starseekeruse http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/
20:12.09CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34168 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Convert window_frame man page to docbook
20:13.09Malycehttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m393a0eda
20:13.49``Erikwhich OS?
20:13.54MalyceUbuntu
20:13.56starseekerubuntu linux
20:14.16starseekerdo you have all the autotools installed?
20:14.21Malyceyes
20:14.29``Erikhm, I know the macs rename libtoolize 'glibtoolize', have you checked to make sure libtoolize installed with a 1.5 or later version, and tried running it manually?
20:14.29starseekerhuh
20:14.37Malyceand automake, libtools, m4 etc
20:14.39madantMalyce, no idea why libtoolize is failing.. :) i have never faced it .. you should wait for our build ( and in general) guru brlcad :)
20:15.00madant``Erik, libtool provides /usr/bin/libtoolize in debian, same for ubuntu i guess
20:15.35madantand this is the output of running ./autogen.sh ?
20:15.38Malyceyes
20:16.47``Erikhmmmm, I'm still using 1.5.26, wonder if something changed in 2
20:18.32madantMalyce, just make sure you have the latest revision and no changes from the trunk etc ?  I myself have autoconf 2.63 automake 1.10.1 and libtool 2.2.6 and no probs :)
20:19.21``Erikimagines running libtoolize -cf by hand will provide more informatin
20:19.34``Eriks/n$/o&/
20:19.55MalyceI co this morning
20:19.58madantwhat is the output if you run autoreconf manually ?
20:20.30``Erik*sigh* autoreconf will need the m4 directory wired into it and will try to make libtoolize silent
20:24.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34169 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Convert wire man page to docbook.
20:25.59Malycehow should i run the autoreconf manually ?
20:26.05Ralithreturneth!
20:27.25mafmchanting hymns for returneth Ralith
20:27.32madantMalyce, is the ./autogen.sh --verbose output any different ?
20:35.24Malycejust ran the autogen --verbose
20:35.27Malycebut the output is the same
20:35.34Malycejust quote detailed
20:35.40Malycei can post the output if it would help
20:35.41Malyce?
20:35.49louipcyeah put it in a pastebin
20:36.33Malycehttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m52ab321c
20:37.44hippieindamakin8brlcad, ``Erik there was a bug on bug tracker on sf which was "latest svn failed on debian sid"
20:38.25hippieindamakin8the build was successful with some minimal errors during the build (these errors are generally ignored)
20:42.49madantweird , why the tick and quote=> 'ibtoolize: Failed to create `m4
20:46.30louipcI thought the same thing
20:52.47*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177593680.dsl.bell.ca)
20:53.50``Eriknow why would libtoolize want to create m4, and is it trying to make it as a dir or file? O.o
21:14.41starseekerprepares some more nurbs test cases to put in the repository
21:15.34brlcadsuspects malyce *doesn't* have the autotools installed, at least not some of the tools
21:17.31brlcadah, verbose log
21:20.44brlcad"'ibtoolize" certainly looks wrong
21:25.33CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34170 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: implement prim->brep
21:28.30CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34171 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: need a routine to convert from NMG to BREP, ideally for both NURBS and polygonal NMG objects. makes it easier to update functionality to the new data types.
21:30.04CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34172 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: need _tess() for brep primitive
21:34.53brlcadgives mafm some high praises
21:36.23starseekerbrlcad:  any idea why asc2g would say m_object_table[0].m_object is NULL ?
21:36.41pooliobrlcad: I started on nmg -> brep...I think it may work for polygonal NMG objects, bu I believe it had some bugs
21:36.52brlcadpoolio: yeah, I saw that
21:37.04brlcadmy eyebrow went all crooked
21:37.19poolioI also think there's a newer version around here (locally) that I forgot to commit
21:37.35brlcadahh, should hunt that shtuff down! :)
21:38.07poolioCause I remember proclaiming myself done with arb*, and then I moved onto the other shapes
21:38.24starseekergrr.  Well, looks like the .g goes in the repository, with hunting down the asc2g bug being on the list
21:38.52brlcadyou mean g2asc I hope ;)
21:38.54mafmbrlcad: why?
21:38.58brlcadotherwise, "there's your problem" :)
21:39.19starseekernot sure
21:39.35brlcadstarseeker: .g is certainly better than nothing, but maybe just shove it up on the website then
21:39.40brlcador into the wiki
21:39.52starseekerk
21:40.06brlcada wiki page showing the progress would be pretty useful
21:40.16brlcadbefore after sets like you started
21:40.31starseekerhmm.  ok, that should be doable
21:40.44starseekerlet  me get this file up somewhere for dreeves when he gets back :-)
21:42.13starseekerhere's the g2asc output for the file:  http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m360c1791
21:43.08starseekerdoesn't see how g2asc is preserving the brep/nurbs info in the asc file, to be honest
21:43.52brlcadstarseeker: ah
21:43.53brlcadyeah
21:44.02brlcadtclget/put havent' been implemented apparently
21:44.11starseekerooo, that'll do it
21:44.28starseekerok, here's the .g:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/nurbs_tests.g
21:44.31brlcadI mean, just looking at that output, that is clear
21:44.50starseekerI thought so, but I wasn't sure if there was some magic going on ;-)
21:45.07mafmbrlcad: * brlcad gives mafm some high praises -- why?
21:45.41brlcadmafm: oh just talking about you to other mentors
21:45.58mafmah
21:46.06mafmwhat for?
21:46.18brlcadnosey, eh? :)
21:46.27brlcadjust talking about you, not to you ;)
21:46.40mafmwell, it's you who ignited the curiosity :)
21:46.52brlcadI know, it's more fun that way
21:46.58mafmbtw, have you seen my reply in google thingy? I can't sign up as mentor
21:47.09brlcadI know why you can't sign up
21:47.31brlcadcan't be a mentor and a student
21:47.37mafmyes
21:47.41brlcadand given you have multiple apps in, you're fixed as a student
21:47.51mafmhowever I'll try to advise anyway, if anybody would find my advise useful :P
21:48.05brlcadnods
21:48.09brlcadthat would be appreciated and useful
21:48.15brlcadif someone continues that work
21:49.02mafmwell, in fact I already advised a few ppl under the hood :P
21:50.18mafmbrlcad: if my apps go bad, maybe I can sign up officially as mentor too? melange gods might provide... :)
21:55.07madantmafm, did u see Malyce's error, i faintly remember having a similar problem ( quote, tick and unnecessary characters :D ) in debian long back.. it disappeared of course ..  it might be a debian bug
21:56.07mafmmadant: can't remember, I did have problems last year but it was for another reason (autotools version or similar)
22:01.01brlcadmafm: nope, not really possible unless you know before the 15th that you're rejected from everywhere you applied and could get an admin to remove your student status
22:01.18brlcadstudents aren't announced until the 20th, so I suspect "no" :)
22:03.04mafm:/
22:03.19mafmwell, unofficial mentor will do
22:04.24madantmafm: t-shirt would be nice ;)
22:04.43hippieindamakin8recounts that he sounded stupid talking abt the debian sid compile without checking the complete log/comment.
22:04.56starseekerdreeves: OK, if it's helpful I've got some test nurbs shapes up at http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/nurbs_tests.g and a script to raytrace them all at http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/nurbs_tests.sh - should be a bit more of a workout than brep_simple ;-)
22:05.22brlcadthinks starseeker should implement tclget/put support ;)
22:05.38starseekerme too :-)
22:05.38brlcadhas to be done eventually anyways, now there's actually a compelling reason ;)
22:05.52*** join/#brlcad Malyce (n=iamtanma@wlanaccess-ext.jacobs-university.de)
22:06.32starseekershould also go to the gym, and since that closes that'll have to be first...
22:06.38mafmmadant: well, that's a shame, yes
22:07.01Malycedo you guys know brlcad's email ?
22:07.13MalyceI could just send my compile pastebin's to him
22:07.22*** join/#brlcad AlexandreGuedes (n=chatzill@189-92-146-147.3g.claro.net.br)
22:07.26starseekerhe can see them on pastebin.bzflag.bz
22:07.47starseekeror are they too big for it?
22:07.49Malyceshouldn't I send him the urls ?
22:07.57``Eriksay the URL in channel
22:08.06``Erikit may be possible that someone else coudl help you, too... O.o
22:08.10Malycehttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m52ab321c
22:08.15Malycehttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m393a0eda
22:08.25MalyceI did that, like half an hour ago, remember ?
22:09.06MalyceBesides, I don't have access to that machine anymore right now
22:09.17``Eriksh -xe libtoolize -a -c   <-- would probably tell ya a lot more
22:09.19``Erik:D
22:09.21MalyceIf somebody can tell me what went wrong, I'll try it out
22:09.41Malyceok
22:09.54MalyceThis was me building on Ubuntu
22:10.00MalyceI also did it on Cygwin
22:10.10MalyceThere, autogen.sh went without a hitch
22:10.18Malycebut,..
22:10.21louipchehehe try to get it working on ubuntu first
22:10.29brlcadMalyce: yet again, one of the downsides of not using 'screen' to stay on irc .. I commented on your pastebin while you were gone
22:10.39Malyceoh
22:10.44Malycerats
22:10.55MalyceIt was a different machine
22:11.06``Erikif you auto* on cygwin, the resultant may possibly not be ok for a leenewx
22:11.12brlcadhaven't seen that specific problem before, but you can try to run exactly what autogen.sh is running to see why (like try what ``Erik suggested)
22:11.32Malyceok
22:11.42``Erikalso; you could try googling the issue, surely this isn't the only place it's existed :D I see an ubuntu link when I chuck it in google...
22:11.47Malyceand just that one command will do the same ?
22:11.52brlcadonly thing I can think of is the "-I m4" is confusing that version of libtoolize
22:12.07louipc:D
22:14.00MalyceCan I ask about the Cygwin build ? I don't have immediate access to the Ubuntu machine, will get it soon
22:15.33Malycehttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m6cb9d321
22:15.44brlcadstarseeker: if you serialize the BREP similar to what 'l' outputs but just using a shorthand single-letter notation, you can get tclget/adjust/form for free
22:15.46MalyceAlthough autogen.sh runs without a hitch, configure dies on me
22:16.18brlcadsee rt_ell_parse[] in src/librt/primitives/ell/ell.c for an example
22:16.24``Erikawesome
22:16.40brlcadyou'd have to have vars for the entity count, then other vars for values for each entity type
22:16.58brlcadpretty huge table, but should be less than 52 entities I'd think
22:17.13brlcad(not that they need to be short, but is consistent) :)
22:17.29starseekerok :-)
22:18.02brlcadotherwise you'll have to find a compressed shorthand to store, maybe openNURBS has a text serialization routine
22:18.17brlcadprobably easier to define the table
22:21.51Malycehints ?
22:23.12brlcadehm, what erik said to try
22:23.17brlcadbasically run the steps manually
22:23.38brlcadsee what's breaking, see if the options make sense with that version of the tool's documentation
22:23.46MalyceI will try that out in a couple hrs, when I get to steal the machine back
22:24.01Malycebut I was also asking for the Cygwin build
22:24.10Malycethat's the last pastebin i posted
22:24.20Malyceautogen.sh ran fine there
22:24.33Malyce./configure --without-x11 broke down
22:25.03``Erikum, cygwin is gonna try to look like unix, which'll make configure need x11
22:25.14brlcadtry running ./autogen.sh --verbose, see if there are any warnings
22:25.18``Erikcygwin should have all the right x11 crap with it
22:25.55brlcadotherwise, read the configure script and see what looks wrong -- it's a shell script, those are errors near the very beginning of the file
22:26.01``Erikfeel free to make configure.ac grok cygwin and try to do the right thing, but I suspect that'd require fixing tcl/tk
22:26.02``Erik:D
22:26.15``Erik(and yes, those broken lines are setting the version info)
22:27.23Malycewell, 15th time's the charm (crosses fingers and toes)
22:27.43louipchaha
22:30.56CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34173 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/intaval-g.py: don't assume that pythong is /usr/bin/python, use /usr/bin/env to find it
22:32.46CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34174 10/brlcad/trunk/ (INSTALL m4/Makefile.am m4/python.m4 m4/sdl.m4): Remove python.m4 and sdl.m4
22:37.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34175 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtienet/ (Makefile.am g-adrt.c): start putting in g-adrt
22:38.54``Erikhopes he busted it all up good 'nuff to piss some people off :D
23:01.11Malycein Arb8.cpp, the number of vertices is a size_t type. Would it be ok, for me to simply typecast it to int ?
23:01.19Malycein CoreInterfaces
23:06.10mafmwhat for?
23:06.20MalyceI want to pass it to other functions
23:06.37MalyceI guess it should be ok. number of vertices has to be an integer
23:06.55mafmdo you know what a size_t is? :)
23:07.05Malyceits what you get from sizeof
23:07.11Malycesize in bytes
23:07.21Malyceoh shoot
23:07.35Malycesorry, (conks himself on the head)
23:08.34mafmactually, using int is better than an unsigned int sometimes
23:08.47mafmbut size_t is the type used for indexes and the like
23:08.50Malycehere, it has to be an integer
23:09.06MalyceI haven't seen it being used outside of sizeof
23:09.13mafmunsigned int, 32 bits in 32 bit architectures, 64 in 64 bits
23:09.15Malycewhy ?
23:09.23``Eriknot always
23:09.45mafmwell, because it's the number of elements that you can address
23:09.47``Eriksome 64b archs make a uint32_t when you say unsigned int
23:10.11Malyceis it ok for me to typecast it ?
23:10.31Malycenumerically, it will be the same. integer to integer
23:10.44Malycevalue won't change
23:10.56mafm``Erik: I mean size_t, that it's defined as an unsigned int(eger) of 32 or 64, not literal "typedef unsigned int size_t" :)
23:11.45mafmMalyce: you might even change the original, but probably who did that created it size_t for a reason
23:11.52``Erikisn't sure where/what malyce means, sees no function name or line number or anything
23:12.39mafmI doubt you'll have more than INT_MAX number of vertices in a given thingy, so it should be safe, but don't take my word as law :)
23:13.22``Erikif it's used as an offset or pointer, might run into issues past the 4gb mark, though...
23:13.22Malycesize_t NumberOfVertices(void) const throw();
23:13.34MalyceI don't think so
23:14.09``Erikahhhhhh, in rt^3, ok
23:14.10Malycethe corresponding Arb8.c comments say (rt_arb_std_type), that return should be 0-8
23:14.29Malyceso, the return value will be 0-8, irrespective of size_t or int
23:14.36Malycejust being cautious
23:16.31mafmMalyce: the point is that maybe it makes more sense that you use size_t in your code, or maybe it doesn't matter if you use different types, it's hard to say for me :)
23:16.48``Erikhrm, the function used to fill ret is returning a regular old int :/
23:17.50mafmI prefer to use the same types everywhere instead of casting, but I don't know if this is carefully maintained in coreInterface or not (according to what ``Erik says, it seems not :) )
23:18.05MalyceI don't know why it wasn't typecasted in the function itself, that's my point
23:18.34MalyceBut, I do *need* to typecast it to use it elsewhere, no choice there
23:18.46Malycewanted to know the side effects
23:18.52``Erikdoesn't know, would ask DRoßerg
23:18.53mafmwhy? the compiler should issue a warning, not an error
23:19.17Malycek, will ask DRossberg
23:19.19``Erik~seen drossberg
23:19.24iboti haven't seen 'drossberg', ``Erik
23:19.37mafmanyway, casting from size_t to int won't cause problems unless you pass the 2GB barrier :)
23:19.49mafm~seen d_rossberg
23:19.50ibotd_rossberg <n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 4d 14h 43m 58s ago, saying: 'i.e. the student should not be able to see it'.
23:20.07Malyceso it won't be an issue, since the return is known to be between 0-8
23:20.18mafmthat would be correct
23:20.23Malycecool
23:20.36``Erikor negative on error
23:20.37``Erik?
23:20.43Malycehihi
23:21.18mafmin C++ you can use: int blah = static_cast<int>(teh_var);
23:21.50mafm``Erik: if the signature of the function is size_t, returning a negative number is kind of a ... bad design, I guess
23:21.57``Erikyeh
23:22.07mafmis kind -> would be :)
23:22.08``Erikwell, it's signed int in librt
23:22.44madantMalyce, things are much better understood with a short code excerpt @ pastebin showing what u want to do :)
23:22.50mafmso maybe it's the signature of the function in CoreInterface which slightly wrong
23:23.12mafm+1 madant
23:23.30``Erik*shrug* shoot daniel an email or try to catch him on irc, he may've had a reason for doing it that way, I d'no :)
23:24.54mafmor shoot him directly, then ask :)
23:25.12MalycePanda: an animal that eats, shoots and leaves
23:25.16madantthinks using size_t for denoting the "size" of things - arity of a function, number of points in a primitive etc. etc. - is just pedantic :D
23:26.17``ErikI'd argue more misleading than pedantic... size_t insinuates some relation to pointers 'n stuff, no?
23:26.27mafmwould say yes
23:27.05Malycehttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d5d2fe1cd
23:27.21Malycejust a small something i was experimenting
23:27.52*** join/#brlcad AlexandreGuedes_ (n=chatzill@189-92-169-90.3g.claro.net.br)
23:28.15MalyceI should have commented it
23:29.43Malycehttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d3ca55d6d
23:29.48Malycecommented version
23:30.22``Erikhrmmmm
23:31.44mafmMalyce: ret might be uninitialized
23:31.51mafmand returned as such
23:32.25MalyceI thought that
23:32.28``Erikthat centroid func doesn't quite smell right to me
23:32.34MalyceI should make it =0;
23:32.49``Erikhrm, guess it is heh
23:32.58``Erikmust be tired
23:33.10MalyceI thought so too. It has to be *heh*
23:33.14MalyceI knew it
23:33.44mafmMalyce: also, in C++ you can declare "npoints" in the same place: int npoints = (int) NumberOfVertices();
23:34.41mafmif you're not going to use it outside that scope, that is :)
23:35.01*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
23:35.10mafmwell, I go to bed now, take care gentlemen (and ladies? :) )
23:35.15mafmnight
23:35.18Malycegood nigt
23:35.25Malycesweet dreams
23:35.25``Eriklater, mafm
23:36.27Malyceoh, I remembered
23:36.38Malycethe reason I did not initialise ret = 0;
23:36.57Malyceits a point_t type. I don't know what that looks like
23:37.15Malyce*investigates*
23:38.39``Eriktypedef fastf_t point_t[4];
23:38.40``Erikor so
23:39.09``Erikfully resolved out to typedef double point_t[4];
23:39.31MalyceI can understand the first 3, but what do you do with double no. 4 ?
23:39.45``Erikxyzw
23:39.46Malycex,y,z,?
23:39.50Malyceahahaha
23:39.57Malyceseriously, what is w ?
23:40.08``Erikhomogenous coordinates
23:40.31Malyceso it is the index of the local coords being used ?
23:40.38Malycecoord sys that is
23:42.58Malycewhere is this defined ?
23:44.47madant``Erik, mafm :) yeah maybe misleadingly pedantic :P
23:44.51Malyceuh, I think it is only three points
23:44.57Malyce#define ELEMENTS_PER_POINT3
23:45.28Malycetypedef fastf_tpoint_t[ELEMENTS_PER_POINT];
23:46.10madantoff to a 5km run
23:46.40``Erikokie, sorry, was thinking hvect_t
23:46.44``Eriktoo used to opengl O:-)
23:48.55Malyceso, I initialize it to {0,0,0}, origin, is okie ?
23:50.15``Erikshould be
23:50.37``ErikVSET(ret,0,0,0); :D
23:50.46``ErikVSETALL(ret,0);
23:51.00Malyceuseful. will keep that in mind
23:51.19``Erik(just in case we go turn all that stuff into simd stuff some day)
23:51.37Malycehow so ?
23:53.16Malycehow is that useful, in parralel processing ?
23:55.27Ralithscatter instruction support?
23:55.29Malyceugh, parallel
23:55.56Malyceso, all the user defined ops are already there ?
23:55.58Malyceahhh
23:56.10Ralithwhat?
23:56.32Malycewhen you use scatter/gather instructions, you can give it user defined operations to perform
23:56.51Malycecollective operations
23:57.06Malycei take it that is what you meant
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090407

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090407

00:34.03*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
00:46.19yukonbobhi, cadheads
00:57.25CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34176 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (6 files): Add debug* MGED command docbook man pages (Janine and Cliff)
01:00.01*** join/#brlcad tessier_ (n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines)
01:00.03tessier_WOW
01:00.23tessier_I've known about brl-cad for many years. Since the mid-90's I think.
01:00.36tessier_It has always languished in obscurity. Glad to see it is finally taking off!
01:01.02starseeker:-)
01:01.06starseekeropen source helps that
01:01.52starseekertessier_: did you ever use it?
01:01.56*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
01:02.12tessier_I compiled it once. Fired it up. No no clue wtf I was doing. Never touched it again.
01:02.18tessier_Had no clue
01:02.39``Erikkebert xela
01:02.55``Erikacademic, gov't or industry, tessier? :)
01:03.33``Erik(supposedly we had a couple thousand registered sites before going open source)
01:05.41dreevesstarseeker thanks I will take a look
01:09.19tessier_I am in what you would call industry
01:13.20``ErikI think the only industry chunks where BRL-CAD got serious traction before going open sources defense
01:25.30CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34177 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am decompose.xml delay.xml dm.xml): Add the rest of the d* MGED command docbook man pages (Janine and Cliff)
01:39.48AlexandreGuedesbrlcad
01:41.48AlexandreGuedesI can answer the comment about the my project there ?
02:20.03madantAlexandreGuedes, you can use the channel for discussion, response to the comment or otherwise , and you can post a response comment at the application as well , i think :)
02:41.45``Erik(don't ask to ask, brlcad will read the backlog. and http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html :)
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06:54.20CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03ddreeves70 * r34178 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp:
06:54.20CIA-40BRL-CAD: fixed a bug that was causing some error points in the hit point list returned.
06:54.20CIA-40BRL-CAD: I wasn't initializing the hit bool in the intersect function. This was causing
06:54.20CIA-40BRL-CAD: at random times for the ray origin to show up on the hit point list.
06:56.03dreevesgood news I was able to get rid of the big ole hack in shot found the bug that was causing that.  I think the main issue is lack of trimming now
06:56.51brlcadlack of trimming?
06:56.58brlcadit's trimming from the looks of things
06:57.07brlcaddreeves: did you get the sample breps?
06:57.43dreevesyes I have raytraced some it is handing them much better with the bug fix
06:58.05dreevesAlthough there is still issues but I think those are because of the lack of trimming
06:58.29dreevesThe box had no problems
06:58.42dreevesthe cone hit some issues about mid way up
07:00.26dreevesI haven't converted the trimming code over yet
07:01.13brlcadokay, hrm.. looked like you had
07:01.18dreevesI have started but I'm still matching up how open nurbs stores trims vs the utah code
07:02.21dreevesNo I think if I had that working we would have fully functional nurbs raytracer
07:02.38dreevesbecause I think most everything else is extremely close
07:03.21brlcadthoughts on the tolerance issues?
07:03.47brlcadI mean the issue of having to hard-code tolerances for this given set of inputs, then find a different set of inputs where those tolerance assumptions are no longer valid, for example
07:07.16brlcaddreeves: by the way, very impressive progress
07:07.19brlcadto say the least
07:08.17dreevesI think I need to think that a bit because I messed with that a little and didn't get the results I expected I set aside for the time to focus on the big ole hack because that was really bothering me
07:08.31dreevesthanks brlcad it is cool to work on this
07:09.19brlcadit's nice to see someone that can just jump in and make progress, I can't even mentally make the context switch to dig into that code without getting a lot of other things off my plate
07:09.22dreevesIt's alot of fun
07:09.34brlcadwhich hasn't happened in a long while, and as such progress has been very very slow
07:10.34dreevesWell I think think the things you are doing are every bit as valuable to this project
07:11.28dreevesIt has been a little while but it seems I'm getting into the swing of it
07:11.59dreevesIn fact without some of the things you are doing there would be no project for me to have this fun with thanks!!
07:12.05CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34179 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: note the recent code contributions from dreeves. he's been working on the nurbs/brep ray-tracing, woot
07:12.26brlcadoh I'm not downplaying anything I do, just that haven't made much progress on that task :)
07:12.41brlcadwhich does get frustrating, of course, even when I know it's for other reasons ;)
07:12.59dreevesYeah I can understand that
07:13.34brlcadjust like it's frustrating that we don't have a new gui yet, but I knew 8 years ago that it would take a long while to get everything in place (and it's finally starting to come together maintainably)
07:13.42dreevesYou seem to be working day an night on your stuff
07:13.59brlcadpretty much, love it ;)
07:14.26brlcadwhich reminds me.. would be cool to run the speckle activity graph again
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07:14.38brlcadgiven it's been several years since the last time
07:14.43dreevesYeah as you I am very interested in the gui.  I don't know if you or not but my start I was a modeler
07:15.06brlcadnods
07:15.26dreevesso quite abit of experience with the "gui"
07:16.46brlcadthe bigger issue with evolving brl-cad's modeling interface is doing so in a way that improves the interface without pissing off current expert modelers, which generally involves lots and lots of small incremental changes and even more refactoring
07:17.14brlcadthat's the part that I seem to enjoy a lot of, refactoring the codebase into reusable organized sections
07:17.28dreevesYeah I fight that problem all the time trust me.
07:17.48brlcadmged's finally at the point where we have most of its "meat" out of it now and into a library
07:18.00brlcadthat took about a year and a half of almost non-stop effort by bob
07:18.04brlcadand others
07:18.19yukonboblistens in...
07:18.38dreevesYeah I remember way when hacking mged code to add commands
07:18.40brlcadarcher is a good refactoring that fixes many of the bigger fuglinesses in mged, it will be nice to see those two merge
07:18.58brlcadadding new mged commands is still fun (and now even easier than ever) ;)
07:19.22brlcadstill more work needed on libged, but it's definitely coming together as a stateless command API
07:19.35dreevesYeah arch definitely seems like a step up but I think in the end it is important for the interface to get more intuitive
07:19.59brlcadneed a few new facilities like active selection sets, but then it should be fully quasi-modeless
07:20.21brlcadsure, archer is just one of those incremental steps
07:21.00dreevesYou know something to think about would be how to you encapsulate all the behavior associated with a primitive
07:21.11brlcadthat gives current modelers their same commands, familiar terminology, and similar options, but still shocks them with window management and extra information panels (hierarchy views, edit panels, single window default views, etc)
07:21.44brlcadthey're pretty much encapsulated as it is minus a few rogue commands that still need to be pushed up into librt
07:22.31brlcad95% of a primitive is in a dir in src/librt/primitive/ with the callback table for each 'method' of interest
07:22.38dreeveswhat I'm talking about is a primitive knows everything about itself how to rt, how to read, write and edit
07:23.01brlcadthat's what it does now
07:23.17dreevesReally
07:23.35dreevesI thought editing behavior was in libged and rt was in librt?
07:23.40brlcadyeah, that's the callback table I was referring to
07:24.07brlcadthere's a hook for prep, shot, read, write, describe, plot, ... etc, about 20 different things that defines a primitive
07:24.48dreevesagreed librt definitely has most but appears to lack the hooks for editing?? but again I could definitely be missing something
07:25.27brlcadthe 5% that isn't in there are the bits that need to be refactored and pushed up as another hook or two, which includes things like 'mirror' (specific copy contructor), 'typein' (well-defined explicit constructor), and 'make' (default constructor)
07:25.41brlcadyeah, editing is in that 5% -- it's actually not a lot of hooks
07:25.43dreevesoh ok
07:27.05brlcadthe biggest thing presently lacking is object validation as a specific callback routine
07:27.12brlcadright now that happens during the prep() callback for raytracing
07:27.20brlcador for some primitives during read/write
07:27.31brlcadbut not as a specific callback in itself
07:27.35brlcadthat is needed
07:27.51dreeveshow do you do the * dreeves nods in irc
07:27.54brlcadthat's related to the parametric constraint support too
07:28.27brlcadshows dreeves how to use "/me shows dreeves how to use /me"
07:28.46dreevesnods
07:28.50dreevesah ok
07:28.52dreevesthanks
07:28.55brlcadnp
07:30.08dreevesYeah I have been nosing around a little in what is going on with the libged stuff but for the most part trying to focus on this brep stuff
07:30.32dreevesseems like plenty of people focusing on mged currently
07:30.53brlcadnothing complicated, literally a straightforward refactoring of all commands in mged to make them a single argc/argv style function
07:31.20brlcadbut that in itself requires/required rewriting *many* of the commands to make them work stateless and to work without Tcl
07:31.39dreevesYeah that was what I was about ask
07:32.09brlcadentailed refactoring about 100k-150k lines of code
07:32.54brlcadjust to get them into the simple form they are now of ged_[command]()
07:35.13dreevesso if memory serves me right wasn't the original commands in the whole argc/argv form (not factored out but in that form within mged)
07:37.58brlcadthey were already 'mostly' in an argc/argv form but they weren't stateless
07:38.25brlcadmany/most of them were tightly integrated with mged's various global state objects and edit modes
07:39.04brlcadso they would just set flags and expect things to happen or add things to some random global, etc
07:39.07dreevesyeah that is definitely true I remember
07:39.23brlcadvery ugly in some places
07:39.33dreevesI remember that made things tough on a young programmer
07:39.34brlcadmost of that is *much* more clean now
07:39.53brlcadthe commands get passed a "working set" of objects and views to work on
07:40.14brlcadthey fill out results for that working set
07:40.21dreevesYeah thats cool
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07:40.31brlcadde-coupling tcl was the other big task
07:40.52dreevesYeah I imagine that was a very big task
07:41.05brlcadbut that was mostly changing a lot of function calls from tcl-things-that-does-something-like-printf to a bu-routine-that-does-something-like-printf
07:41.14brlcadnot tricky logic-wise
07:41.26brlcadjust thousands of lines of code in mostly non-scriptable ways
07:41.30brlcadtedious
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07:41.47dreevesI was going to say that sounds very very tedious
07:42.09dreevestake a special kind of person or people to do that
07:42.16brlcadyeah
07:42.39dreevesHas Ed seen the progress on the brep stuff?
07:43.07brlcadabsolutely
07:43.14brlcadpretty exciting
07:43.28dreevesYeah I didn't know if he had seen it yet
07:43.39dreevesHe really helped get me set on the right path
07:43.42brlcadyeah, we've talked about it several times, yesterday included
07:44.01dreevestalking to me on the phone the other day
07:44.06brlcadyeah, he told me
07:44.24dreevessaved me a lot of retrenching time
07:46.32dreevesOk I'm rerunning the test cases I had forgotten that I had uncommented the incomplete trimming code so bunch of blank images
07:47.21dreevesneeds to check to see if he committed that code
07:49.11dreeveshey you want me to send you the images or post them on the mailing list?
07:49.37brlcadheh, saw that
07:49.46brlcadyou did, commented it out
07:50.22brlcadmailing list posts are almost always better (to brlcad-devel unless you clean it up as a 'preview' for the unwashed user masses)
07:50.39brlcadjust so it hits more eyes
07:50.51dreevesyeah I just checked
07:50.55brlcadanother option is to set up some development progress page on the wiki and post a link to that to brlcad-devel
07:51.39dreevesthat would be cool I will admit I don't know how to do that though
07:52.08dreevesI could probably figure it out if you tell me I have the capability from a permission stand point
07:52.17yukonbob!! clock! Haven't seen him in ages...
07:52.31brlcaddreeves: you do, the wiki is wide open
07:53.03brlcadshould create an account on the wiki just so you don't have to keep answering a captcha, but from there it's very simple
07:53.14brlcadjust like editing wikipedia
07:54.02brlcadbasically, would probably start by editing this page and adding a link to a new brep/nurbs page:  http://brlcad.org/wiki/Developer_Documents
07:55.12brlcadyou can use another dev page (like http://brlcad.org/wiki/Revolve_Primitive ) as an example
07:55.33brlcadmaybe http://brlcad.org/wiki/BREP_Primitive for that matter
07:57.14dreevesok I will give it a go
08:04.52CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1356 10/wiki/FAQ: what does BRL mean?
08:07.07CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1357 10/wiki/FAQ: how do you pronounce brl-cad
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08:10.00CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34180 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/description.txt: unacceptible is unacceptable
08:10.44CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1358 10/wiki/Developer_Documents:
08:13.04CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34181 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/description.txt: gah, more non-acceptablisms
08:14.16CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1359 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: New page: {{DesignDocument}} = Overview = More to follow just starting this page. Will try to populate all the sections tomorrow with status of the work on BREP. = Internal Representation = = ...
08:15.19CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1360 10/wiki/FAQ: how to spell brl-cad
08:18.26CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Box.png]]": BREP Box in the nurb_tests.g that was provided to me by starseeker.
08:20.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1362 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive:
08:21.47CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Brep Cone.png]]": Brep of a cone provide in the nurbs test by starseeker
08:24.13CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1364 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */
08:25.56CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1365 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */
08:27.40CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Brep Cylinder.png]]"
08:28.21CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1367 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */
08:28.40CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1368 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */
08:30.10CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Brep dentedSphere.png]]"
08:30.23CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1370 10/wiki/FAQ: what is brl-cad and what license do we use?
08:31.08CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Brep Pipe.png]]"
08:31.59CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Brep Torus.png]]"
08:33.39CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1373 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */
08:34.50dreevesbrlcad I have them posted I suppose I will go send a message on the mailing list
08:35.16dreevesMore work todo on that page plus more images but I need to grab a few hours sleep
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08:41.02brlcaddreeves: sounds good
08:41.30brlcadlooks good too
08:45.09dreevesok I also sent mail to the mailing list but I haven't seen it show up yet
08:46.19dreevesbrlcad I really like the pipe and the torus...although on the torus I see a few spots but I can think I could bump the tolerance and get rid of those but right now I want to focus on trimming I will get back to that in due time
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09:40.57mafmhi
09:41.33hippieindamakin8hey mafm
10:02.28brlcaddreeves: yeah, the pipe is particularly impressive
10:02.38brlcadit has some acne problems as well on one of the tips
10:02.45brlcadprobably trimming related
10:10.27dreevesI think I have the others look good now...  I guess I'm not sure it is trimming again for some reason I am getting an odd intersection count.  I just throw away the last intersection and it looks great.  However, the dented sphere will still probably messed up.  Just got think those issue shouldn't be cause by timming.  Also bumped the tolerance seemed to eliminate the acne
10:19.43CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded a new version of "[[Image:Brep Cone.png]]"
10:20.18CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded a new version of "[[Image:Brep Cylinder.png]]"
10:21.56CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded a new version of "[[Image:Brep Torus.png]]"
10:25.05CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded a new version of "[[Image:Brep Torus.png]]"
10:25.50dreevesbrlcad when you have a chance I have updated the images with the changes I talked about
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10:28.16CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded a new version of "[[Image:Brep dentedSphere.png]]"
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10:56.53brlcaddreeves: nice! definitely looking much better
10:58.53brlcadthere are still a variety of parity problems causing the acne, but it's definitely getting reduced
11:00.02brlcaddented sphere is particularly odd as the inner sphere seems to be inverted with wrong normals
11:00.51brlcadthe last bit of acne on the pipe is probably a parity issue hitting that back face
11:01.00dreevesYeah some strange things going on with that one.  On a good note though I think it is clear from the cylinder where we aren't trimming
11:01.30dreevesSo now I have good test case for trouble shooting the trimming.  So I think I will get that fixed next then focus on the tolerance issues
11:01.39brlcadcool
11:01.54brlcadgoes to shower
11:02.15dreevesThe utah paper makes reference to particular watching the tolerances
11:05.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03ddreeves70 * r34182 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: more tweaking of the tolerances in BREP
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13:01.40MalyceI tried sh -xe libtoolize -a -c
13:01.56Malycegave me: Can't open libtoolize
13:02.48Malycealso, stole a machine with Vstudio 2008
13:02.56Malycewhere are the VC proj files ?
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13:04.34Malycethe first line was on a ubuntu machine, where autogen.sh was complaining that libtoolize and autoreconf failed
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13:17.17brlcadMalyce: for what it's worth, I'm starting to get the impression that you don't look for things very hard or for very long
13:17.55brlcadgsoc and open source development in general really requires a lot of independent thinking and problem solving skills
13:18.59MalyceI understand what you mean
13:19.11_clock_brlcad: do you like gsoc?
13:19.26brlcadyou really should have absolutely no problem finding the vc proj files, and you asking for them just shows that you either didn't look and was looking for a quick answer or you sort of looked but didn't immediately find it so you asked
13:19.38brlcad_clock_: absolutely, it's a pretty great program
13:19.42Malycei must be missing something obvious
13:19.48Malyceits not in the svn checkout
13:19.54Malyceand no mention on the wiki
13:20.00Malyceor did i miss something?
13:20.01brlcadit is in the svn checkout
13:20.23brlcadhow did you look for it?
13:20.42brlcadrandomly browsing around directories isn't exactly effective on any large codebase
13:21.04brlcadyou have to use an effective searching mechanism
13:21.19MalyceI looked on the wiki first, when it wasn't obvious
13:21.29MalyceI found a directory in /misc
13:21.43alex_joniMalyce: I think I compiled brlcad once a couple years ago, but I don't really follow it
13:21.51Malycebut there doesn't seem to be a single .proj file, or am I wrong ?
13:21.52alex_jonistill it took me < 1 minute to find this: http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/doc/README.Windows?revision=28028&view=markup
13:22.18brlcadalex_joni: yep, or barring that there is also google, which points you straight to the file too
13:22.41brlcadif it's not a lack of effort, it's a lack of process/tools
13:23.43brlcadand yes, part of gsoc is certainly learning -- learning how to approach a task and how to find things is an important skill
13:24.37Malycei googled 'brl-cad building vc++ project'
13:24.42Malyceand then looked on the wiki
13:24.51Malycebut yes, I am incompetent
13:25.03Malycebut not for lack of trying
13:25.27brlcadheh, not incompetent
13:25.58brlcadjust need to hone those skills a bit, look a bit harder, bit more thorough until you learn more
13:26.03alex_joniMalyce: don't get discouraged immediately
13:26.07MalyceRight now, I am sitting in front of three machines, trying to get this thing to compile
13:26.13alex_joniit takes a while to get used to the OSS way of doing things
13:26.17Malycebut I am new to this
13:26.36alex_joniMalyce: I think the most important skill one needs to bring is patience
13:26.40Malyceif I am slow, it is my inexperience
13:26.54Malycebut back to the point, the readme mention MSVC6 and 7
13:27.06Malycethe directory has 8 and 9
13:27.15alex_joniif you're patient enough to read things before you jump ahead, sometimes it's lots easier to get things working
13:27.35alex_joniMalyce: means that document is probably outdated (you can see the last change date ~2 years ago)
13:27.38MalyceIt says that it is possible to build on 8
13:27.49brlcadfor what it's worth, "brl-cad building vc++ project" isn't a great search term -- vc++ won't match much and the other terms are pretty general
13:28.03brlcadyour original query here was actually better, you called it vcproj
13:28.04Malyceright, what should I have looked for ?
13:28.15MalyceI think I looked for that too
13:28.16brlcadsearching for "brl-cad vcproj" probably would have been a lot more effectiv
13:28.42Malyceor not
13:29.19brlcadlooks right to me, the first links point you at misc/win32-msvc8
13:29.32Malyceyes
13:29.35Malycemy mistake
13:29.38brlcaddown the line, almost the entire page points to that dir
13:29.42Malyceyes
13:30.12Malycemakes sense now
13:31.14brlcadMalyce: really not trying to be hard on you, fwiw
13:31.26brlcadI do want you to do better, for your sake and ours :)
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13:31.55alex_jonibrlcad: otoh, I always fopund it helpful when new people come around and report things that are not intuitive or easy to find
13:32.10alex_joniit's great to get fresh eyes on something that feels natural to me...
13:32.21alex_joniespecially documentation
13:32.46brlcadit's a skill like any other -- finding doc/README.Windows would have also worked, which the README and INSTALL point you at (or at least one of them does, iirc) -- which at least pushes you in the right direction even with it being a little dated
13:32.59brlcadyeah, it's useful feedback
13:33.28brlcadthe windows readme certainly needs updating, that was at least uncovered
13:34.03Malyceyou are right, I am making too many noob mistakes
13:34.05brlcadand knowing which of the 300 dirs in misc/win32-msvc8 dirs is the one to start with
13:34.20brlcadthough if you read the list carefully, only one makes sense
13:34.49Malycebrl-cad
13:35.15brlcadbingo
13:35.21brlcadsans hypen of course
13:35.25brlcadhyphen even
13:37.39alex_jonithat might be even easier to find, if someone knows what a .sln file is
13:38.22alex_joni"This is a structure file for organizing projects in Microsoft Visual Studio. It contains text-based information about the project environment and project state."
13:38.51MalyceMSVS shows it in the open dialog
13:40.15hippieindamakin8brlcad, when we discussed the thing that we take care of the changes in topology, but the matter is that with approximate calculations one very rarely hits the change in topology.For example: we are solving for the intersection and we get new set of patches. it is not in everycase that we encounter the degenerate casee
13:40.30hippieindamakin8*casee/ case
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13:49.09hippieindamakin8and as a matter of fact topology of each patch shall be computed according to the steps mentioned.but i am just thinking would it be absolutely necessary to have a data structure storing the changes
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14:13.29MalyceChecking out from, http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/, doesn't get the CoreInterface .cpp files ?
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14:21.50MalyceThe wiki says that, that should check out the entire brl-cad, but the CoreInterface files don't get checked out
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14:44.08louipcwhat are those?
14:48.42Malycearb8.cpp, Ellipsoid.cpp etc in http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/rt%5E3/trunk/src/coreInterface/  , I think I must have made a checkout mistake somehow.
14:49.10MalyceArb8.cpp
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14:56.54louipcyou have to checkout the rt^3 tree then
14:57.33louipchttp://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/rt^3/trunk/
14:57.48MalyceI was thinking that. The wiki specifically says though that brlcad/brlcad gives you everything
14:58.47louipchmm what page is that?
14:59.12Malycehttps://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/rt^3/trunk, actually
14:59.19Malycehttp://brlcad.org/wiki/SVN
14:59.39louipcright
15:00.31louipcI guess rt^3 is not considered part of the BRL-CAD suite
15:01.48Malycecould be. I will know, once the co is done
15:02.01louipcit's not shipped with tarballs
15:02.36louipcit's a separate interface
15:04.24mafmrt3 is experimental stuff, it's not in the main repository :)
15:07.02Malycemafm: the Install file says that support is not very strong for sys outside Linux
15:07.20MalyceI wanted to work on only the CoreInterface files
15:07.35MalyceAny way to make this easier ?
15:09.40d_rossbergMalyce: which programming environment are you most familar with?
15:10.59MalyceC/C++ on Unix systems. I just haven't much experience in building large projects though.
15:11.46d_rossbergwhich tools do you use un the Unix systems? (command line, eclipse, ...)
15:11.54Malycecommand line
15:12.33d_rossbergand which editor (vi, nedite, kate, ...)
15:12.43Malyceusually nedit
15:12.45louipchehe
15:13.19d_rossbergok, did you ever wrote a makefile?
15:13.45MalyceI had to once. I usually just read them and hope they work
15:14.12Malycebut, its not too hard
15:15.08d_rossbergtherefore, you are able to write a simple makefile which includes some libraries
15:15.11MalyceAre you suggesting that I manually compile the CoreInterface ?
15:15.28d_rossbergMalyce: at this stage: yes
15:15.46Malyceallright. actually that would be a relief, if its possible.
15:16.34d_rossbergyou should first buld the brlcad distribution
15:16.44MalyceI am still struggling with that
15:16.58d_rossbergthis will give you the libraries you need for the core interface
15:17.03louipcblame ubuntu :D
15:17.08Malycealso, svn keeps resetting my connection after around 30 minutes of checking out
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15:17.40d_rossbergi'm working with ubuntu right now, no problem
15:17.49Malyce$ svn checkout http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/rt^3/trunk brlc
15:17.49Malycead-sf-rt3
15:19.09d_rossbergsomething like this
15:19.26Malycewhat am I doing wrong ?
15:21.00mafmMalyce: aren't you working in linux? what's the problem if the support is not good for other systems then? :)
15:21.37mafmand the reset problem might be something wrong with the router or something, it shouldn't be a problem of software
15:21.56MalyceI have been trying to build BRL-CAD on Ubuntu(netbook), Cygwin, Visual Studio 2008 so far
15:22.10Malycefor rt^3, that will narrow my options down to Ubuntu
15:22.46d_rossbergMalyce, your commandline should be ok, it worked for me
15:22.46MalyceTortoise SVN in Win XP manages to do the checkout completely, but not svn from inside cygwin
15:22.49mafmyou can use "svn checkout --depth=immediates"
15:23.36mafmor -N for non-recursive, and adding excplicitly the directories that you care about
15:23.44d_rossbergthere are graphical frontends for svn on linux too
15:24.04Malycesvn: Shallowing of working copy depths is not yet supported
15:24.05mafmyou won't need whole OGRE 3D engine that it's inside src/other for example, if you only want to work in CoreInterface
15:25.08mafmso you can checkout http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/rt%5E3/trunk/src/coreInterface/ only :)
15:25.29Malycejust did
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15:26.41mafmgood :)
15:28.29MalyceYessss
15:30.06Malycealso, co this http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/rt%5E3/trunk/include/brlcad/
15:30.09Malycefor the headers
15:30.54Malyced_rossberg: I think that is all
15:30.55Malyce?
15:32.27MalyceI will try building BRL-CAD on Ubuntu on a standard laptop instead of a netbook and see if that is better
15:32.34d_rossbergyou may put http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad into your webbrowser to see what is left, but these two branches are what i'm using
15:33.18MalyceIt is not possible, I suppose for me to copy the main libraries without building BRL-CAD ?
15:33.55MalyceI will only need librt
15:34.04d_rossbergthe hardware itself should not make a difference but the Ubuntu distribution you are using
15:35.07Malyce9.04 on both machines
15:37.42d_rossbergyou need to be able to build BRL-CAD by yourself because sometimes there are changes on the core libraries neccessary
15:39.33``Erikmoo
15:40.38d_rossbergthe number of the distribution may not say all, your autoconf and libtool versions are different from mine (for example)
15:40.39louipcyeah a netbook is a bit of an awkward development platform eh?
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17:02.22CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34183 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (27 files in 6 dirs): Modified Archer to use the ttk widgets.
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17:51.22``Erik*burp*
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19:03.48pacman87any news on the prelim slot count?
19:06.22brlcadnot till thursday
19:07.02pacman87update the channel topic?
19:10.32brlcadahh, yeah
19:10.41brlcadshe originally said "thursday the 7th"
19:12.22brlcadBRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.6 posted (20090403) || GSoC2009 Next Step: applications have been reviewed, respond to comments, preliminary slot count on 9th, selections announced on the 20th
19:12.36brlcadwe'll know by the 15th, but we're not supposed to tell you until the 20th :)
19:12.50pacman87ok, thanks
19:13.04brlcadkinda cruel and unusual if you ask me
19:14.06brlcadthinks someone should write up a comparison of http://trepan.bzflag.bz/vectors.h to our vmath.h for something number-intensive
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20:19.49Malyce(Ubuntu) ./configure died with: error: c compiler cannot create executables
20:19.49MalyceSolutions on google said to install libc6 libc6-dev gcc g++ build-essential, all of which I have latest version
20:19.51Malycehttp://bzflag.pastebin.ca/1385248
20:20.07Malyceconfig.log
20:21.37``Erikfor some reason, your configure is putting newlines in the version string, it shouldn't be doing that  :/ something is probably messed up/incompatible with your autotools
20:22.34``Erikearly on in your configure, you should have a line like PACKAGE_VERSION='7.14.7'
20:22.45Malyceyes, I had to manually fix that
20:23.06MalyceI suppose it messed up conftest.c as well
20:24.06brlcadahh, I've seen that newline issue
20:24.19brlcadi think it's related to the carriage returns or just that particular version of autoconf
20:24.24brlcad(on cyg)
20:24.36Malycethis is ubuntu
20:24.38brlcadthe last user that ran into it just hard-wired the numbers into configure.ac
20:25.03brlcadMalyce: was the checkout done on ubuntu or on a shared volume?
20:25.18Malycecygwin
20:25.23brlcadheh
20:25.24Malycethis is so messed up
20:25.39``Erik#!~31 *scrolls up to where he said it'd cause problems if malyce did that*
20:26.01brlcadhehe, i've honestly never seen someone have this much trouble compiling the package :)
20:26.15brlcadlots of ways to improve I suppose :)
20:26.19Malycenoob, noob, noob
20:26.23brlcadMalyce: edit your configure.ac file
20:26.30Malyceso I should co again on ubuntu ?
20:26.37brlcadtry the edit first
20:26.40brlcadit's quick and simple
20:26.50brlcadlook for the four define lines near the beginning
20:27.10Malycelike this: define([MAJOR_VERSION], [patsubst(esyscmd([cat include/conf/MAJOR]), [
20:27.11Malyce])])
20:27.13brlcadcomment them out and just set them directly in VAR=value form (e.g. MAJOR_VERSION=7)
20:27.53brlcadmakes sure that'll work
20:28.19Malyceyou want me to set them to the actual numbers, and not the path, right ?
20:28.23brlcadokay, that won't work
20:28.59brlcaddefine([VAR], [#])
20:29.11brlcadwhere # is the number from the corresponding file
20:29.24brlcadnot all that patsubst stuff
20:34.54Malycedefine([MAJOR_VERSION],[7]) define([MINOR_VERSION],[14])  define([PATCH_VERSION],[7])  define([CAD_VERSION],[7.14.7])
20:39.55Malycehttp://bzflag.pastebin.ca/1385272
20:40.00MalyceIt looks the same
20:40.17brlcadyou have to run autogen.sh after editing configure.ac
20:40.27brlcad(always)
20:40.38Malyceok
20:41.27brlcadfor any autotools project, any time you edit a makefile* or configure* file, you should rerun the bootstrapping step, whatever that may be
20:41.44brlcadusually ./autogen.sh or ./buildconf or autoreconf -vis or something else they document
20:49.15brlcadMalyce: how'd that go?
20:55.18Malycehttp://bzflag.pastebin.ca/1385297
20:55.24Malycetwo warnings, one error
20:58.51brlcadinfig.status?! wtf is that?
20:58.58brlcadshould be config.status
20:59.26brlcadif really sounds like you have a busted configuration
20:59.50brlcadreally seems like something is wrong with your gnu autotools install
21:00.48``Erikwould think a) try a fresh checkout to a linux filesystem, or b) try to autoreconf a different project and see how that works
21:00.52brlcadyou're also missing at least three other things that you'd need to install before you can build -- a lexer (lex), a parser (yacc/bison), and libXi-dev/libXi
21:02.08Malyceapt-get install libXi-dev
21:02.14brlcadI've built cleanly on debian very recently, so I really doubt the problems are some problem with the autotools, and our build system certainly hasn't changed
21:02.51brlcadmore than likely , it's something wrong -- maybe could try reinstalling m4/perl/automake/libtool/autoconf
21:03.23Malycesimilarly, I do 'install lex bison automake autoconf libtool'
21:05.06Malycewill Flex do ?
21:05.15brlcadyes
21:05.42brlcadthis sounds like a pretty vanilla system
21:06.52Malyceso, I just installed bison flex libXi-dev. I should autoremove the rest, then install them again ?
21:07.07brlcadI'd suggest it, just to test
21:07.17brlcadsomething does seem quite wrong
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21:21.14Malycebtw, what about the floating point implementation that was not IEEE754 compliant warning ?
21:21.34Malycealso, same config error
21:21.52Malycejust finished uninstalling-installing-autogen-configure
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21:25.08Malycehttp://bzflag.pastebin.ca/1385345
21:29.31hippieindamakin8brlcad, posted a comment on the appspot portal
21:30.39hippieindamakin8is in a hurry as he has his final year engineering project presentation tommorow and all the components of mechanical system stopped working
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21:39.00Malyceentering- ./config.status   gives me - .infig.status: error: cannot find input file:
21:39.40Malycewhich is the same thing ./configure is telling me.
21:40.14Malyceso, this is a line ending issue ?
21:41.12Malyceyes, I resolved the problem. I checked out from svn and ran the same thing. It must have been because I had co on cygwin earlier. No autotools issue here
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22:45.28``Erikautodesk and softworks offering free demos? O.O
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23:31.34brlcadMalyce: glad to hear the problem is solved!  so do you have a build?
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23:40.38Malyce2yes sir
23:40.44Malyce2its all up and running
23:40.52Malyce2ran the benchmarks and the install
23:40.53``Erikhuzzah
23:42.00Malyce2I am installing Ubuntu on my own machine right now. I will transfer the files and run the benchmark again to check. Is that ok ?
23:44.19``Erikif the new box has the same arch, os and packages, should be
23:44.36``Erikerm, and the source is in the same path
23:44.53``Eriklike, if it was /usr/home/joeblow on the old machine and /home/malyce on the new one, that'd probably fail
23:45.12Malyce2I think I'll play it safe, and rerun from autogen
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23:54.19yukonbobwaves to teh cadheads
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090408

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090408

00:02.39brlcadhowdy yukonbob
00:07.55yukonbobhey brlcad
00:08.00yukonbobhow're trix?
00:30.29yukonbobrestarts build process with a release, vs. svn co
00:54.56brlcadyukonbob: going pretty good
00:55.11brlcadyukonbob: feel free to comment on any gsoc applications to the students
00:55.23brlcadsocghop.appspot.com
00:56.06*** join/#brlcad dreeves (n=dreeves@64.178.177.71)
00:56.47brlcadwaves to dreeves
00:58.44*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
00:59.21dreeveswaves back
00:59.38dreevesto brlcad
01:00.33yukonbobbrlcad: will do -- am changing geography right now to settle into some quality computer time ;)
01:00.52starseekeris impressed gCAD3D is able to import the OpenMoko CAD files
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01:19.53starseekersets up a test raytrace of the openbook d part and heads home
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01:34.38mafmnight
01:43.26Ralith_night
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02:06.58``Erikhttp://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=549899  <-- BRL-CAD being pimped O.o
02:07.57Ralithcool!
02:09.26RalithI want one of those keyboards with extra mod keys
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02:25.41starseeker_hrm - anyone else not able to connect to brlcad.org?
02:27.42starseeker_or bzflag.bz?
02:28.01starseeker_has apparently offended the gods
02:32.05``Eriklame, it pings but it doesn't let me ssh in
02:32.14``Erikor let me pull up the page
02:33.29starseeker_hope I didn't bust anything :-(
02:36.27``Erikimagines the machine might be overburdened
02:36.47``Erikmy putzy little home server gets like that when I go heavy into swap
02:37.02``Erikand usually something like 4 load during that heh :D
02:38.08starseeker_winces - I didn't THINK I put up too much data with the CAD files... I hope that's not it...
02:39.28``Erikhm, that machine was awfully tight on space
02:41.34``Erikhm, kernel response to ping is fast, but irc response is slow, smells like io thrashing to me :(
02:41.48``Erikload is 55
02:41.59``Erikusr is full
02:42.29``Erikannnddddd the kernel is too old to give me the io info I'm lookin' for in the way I'm used to heh
02:45.59RalithI can get to the web page, but the web page can't get to the db server.
02:46.16starseeker_ah hell
02:46.18Ralithwhich is odd, considering that the db server is on the same machine.
02:46.38RalithThe MySQL error was: Lost connection to MySQL server during query.
02:46.44``Erikdb server may've crapped itself when a write to /usr failed due to it being full
02:47.00RalithI remember filling /var on my laptop once
02:47.05Ralithproduced very strange behavior.
02:47.39``Eriknot all apps behave intelligently when write() or fprintf() fail
02:47.57starseeker_I got in with ssh
02:48.05starseeker_erases Neo Freerunner files
02:49.28starseeker_no, that can't be it
02:49.39``Erikbrlcad seems to be coming back up now
02:49.41starseeker_that was only a couple hunderd megs
02:49.44``Erikthe page, that is
02:49.45``Erikum, yes
02:49.53``Erikit's that close
02:50.01``Eriktehre's 300 megs free right now
02:50.15starseeker_bloody
02:50.23starseeker_well, so much for that idea
02:50.52``Erik<-- points where he said that the machine was tight on space :)
02:51.16``Erikwhen the migration happens, there'll be more space available
02:53.02starseeker_clears out all the openmoko files except the readmes for later reference
02:53.16starseeker_ok, up to 350
02:53.45``Erikirssi, mysql and httpd were freaking out on not being able to write to /usr
02:53.51starseeker_prepares to back up his dir there and clean out everything he can
02:55.55starseeker_nuts, I was going to have my nice little pocket of free, high quality CAD files
02:56.03starseeker_well, no matter
02:56.21starseeker_only the .g files really NEED to be there
02:56.53starseeker_;-)
03:01.15``Erikmake brlcad migrate the server, then you'll have ~25g to use :D
03:06.23starseeker_hmm, maybe http://www.ibiblio.org would be interested?  Virtual AGC certainly takes up some space
03:08.23Ralithstarseeker_: CAD files of what?
03:09.11starseeker_OpenMoko phone case and VIA OpenBook laptop computer case
03:09.14starseeker_so far
03:09.20starseeker_nurbs based models
03:09.24starseeker_professional quality
03:09.37``Erikpheer my professional quality, uh, cube
03:09.47starseeker_heh
03:10.01``Erikhad to make one in metal tech long ago
03:10.12starseeker_once we can raytrace the simple cases, we can attempt to raytrace THOSE models
03:10.26``Erikmilled aluminum, forget the accuracy it needed, but it had to be pretty precise
03:11.16Ralithstarseeker_: where did you get CAD designs for a VIA laptop? O.o
03:11.20Ralithhow're they licensed?
03:11.43starseeker_http://www.viaopenbook.com/
03:11.49``Erika very flexible license he got form http://ninjas-r-us.com/
03:11.58starseeker_Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported
03:12.09starseeker_just the case, mind you
03:12.18Ralithcool!
03:12.42RalithI didn't know we had the code to import NURBS to .g
03:12.52starseeker_we don't directly
03:12.54starseeker_yet
03:13.05starseeker_3dm-g is the path, but that needs Rhino
03:13.23Ralithah.
03:13.52starseeker_once we get a STEP importer that handles NURBS, we can just export from whatever to STEP and (in theory) be good to go
03:13.55Ralithso, sounds like BREP is moving along at a fair clip then, if we're already looking at stress tests
03:14.59starseeker_dreeves has been looking at some of the work out of utah and applying it - exciting stuff
03:15.10Ralithutah?
03:15.19Ralithmajor kudos to him
03:15.43Ralithis anyone actually working on a STEP importer?
03:16.30starseeker_we're shaking down the NIST STEP Class Library code right now
03:16.35starseeker_that should help with an importer
03:20.05starseeker_exciting stuff
03:22.42Ralithyeah
03:25.35starseeker_Right now, I know of three sources for potentially good CAD models that are open source - OpenMoko, VIA OpenBook, and (possibly) some of the files at http://space.jpl.nasa.gov/models/
03:26.04starseeker_the most interesting of the latter uses Inventor, which is not a format BRL-CAD has an importer for
03:26.42starseeker_might be able to do something with the Open Inventor code, or might be able to import it and export it through another path
03:28.59Raliththe galileo orbiter?
03:29.15starseeker_no, the Cassini
03:29.20starseeker_the 300,000k object one
03:29.31Ralithahh
03:29.34Ralithdidn't notice that figure.
03:29.43Ralithassumed it was just a vanilla conversion
03:29.47starseeker_it might be AutoCAD Inventor, come to think of it
03:29.50starseeker_hmm
03:29.51Ralithhehe, accurate to a fault.
03:29.57starseeker_loves being accurate to a fault
03:30.05Raliththinks it's great fun
03:30.12Ralith(thus my love for CSG over meshes)
03:30.24Ralith(even though I do no work where it matters, and probably won't for years)
03:30.29starseeker_I'm guessing the obj files are exports from the big one
03:31.09Raliththe others too, probably
03:31.24RalithI'm surprised by the size difference though
03:31.41Ralithvery inconsistent prims:filesize ratio
03:32.22starseeker_yeah, not really sure what's in them to be honest
03:32.58starseeker_I managed after a long and annoying chain to use open source tools to get one of the obj files visible in BRL-CAD, but it doesn't seem to be any kind of a solid model
03:33.09starseeker_at least, not after the conversion process got done with it
03:33.14Ralithheh
03:33.22Ralithmight be best to take a look with the native tool.
03:33.35starseeker_it's slow as heck, not much better visually than the dxf... etc.
03:33.36starseeker_yeah
03:34.09Raliththe way it says 'prims' rather than 'tris' suggests a solid model, though
03:34.11starseeker_I got reminded today about the OpenBook, so that is making me re-visit my last look at the Cassini models
03:34.46starseeker_it's ideal to have open models that make heavy real world use of NURBS, so we can share a common test case between all contributors
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03:34.59Ralithyeah
03:39.05starseeker_indeed, that argument holds for all aspects of CAD, not just NURBS - it just so happens that NURBS are hot right now :-)
03:42.00Ralithand relate directly to current development efforts
03:47.05starseeker_ok, 890 free - that may do for now
04:31.13starseekerhmm, one other interesting source of open source CAD models:  
04:31.13starseeker<PROTECTED>
04:31.16starseeker»
04:31.18starseekerLogin or register to post comments
04:31.21starseeker<PROTECTED>
04:31.25starseekerl
04:31.28starseekerhmm
04:31.31starseekerlet's try that again
04:31.38starseekerhttp://www3.elphel.com/wiki/Elphel_camera_parts#0353-10-01_-_camera_bottom.2C_l.3D104.77mm
04:32.43starseekerThe pdf versions are under GFDL with no invariant sections as near as I can tell, but I don't see any license info on the STEP files
04:34.25starseekerah, looks like the short URL works:  http://www3.elphel.com/wiki/Elphel_camera_parts
04:39.59Ralithneat
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05:07.57Ralithhey dreeves!
05:16.41dreeveshey
06:03.06yukonbob_still_ can't get an error-free build going :P
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06:56.11yukonbobnice... bordering on success now...
07:24.00*** join/#brlcad _clock_ (n=_sushi_@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
07:24.06yukonbobhi clock
07:24.25_clock_hi
07:31.19yukonbob_clock_: what's new?
07:31.41_clock_the brazilians seem to be complicated
07:31.54yukonbob?
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08:13.44hippieindamakin8waves at madant_
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08:26.37madant_waves back
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09:31.51mafmhi
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12:26.43starseekerHmmm... http://bugcommunity.com/wiki/index.php/BUGbase
12:34.08starseekerhttp://touchkit.nortd.com/download.html
12:35.17starseekerinteresting
12:54.05CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r34184 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/numerics/BoundingBox.java: Added doesIntersect(Ray) method
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13:34.21``Erikheh "If all else fails... your coworkers are edible" O.o dilbert is kinda, uh, scary at times
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14:18.03starseekerah, the openbook conversion did (sorta) raytrace, after a prep time that seems to have been on the order of 20 minutes
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14:43.37``Erikshweet, pix?
15:12.04yukonbobfinally...
15:16.36yukonbob...feh. almost
15:17.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34185 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
15:17.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: weiss checked the cpa contribution (and ended up going a better route) so remove
15:17.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: it from the list. russell dibelka suggested an interesting feature to make
15:17.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: rtarea display a cross-hair or similar indicator, perhaps with coordinates, if
15:17.36CIA-40BRL-CAD: rtarea is invoked within mged.
15:19.58*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
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16:16.08*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
16:26.12hippieindamakin8hey brlcad , should i add something more to the comment ?
17:16.39starseeker``Erik:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/openbook_d2.png
17:17.45``Erikneato
17:17.48``Erikiiintersting
17:21.28brlcadcool
17:21.34brlcadlooks horrible, but cool :)
17:22.31brlcadhippieindamakin8: not until/unless someone replies back unless you know there is something more you care to say
17:29.05``Erikthinks all those loops are highly indicative of... something... what it is, I dunno, but someone who knows more than me may gleen knowledge from the existance of those... they smell funny :)
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17:33.02starseeker``Erik:  my guess is non-working trimming
17:37.40CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r34186 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/geometry/Partition.java:
17:37.40CIA-40BRL-CAD: Added air code.
17:37.40CIA-40BRL-CAD: Added ident and air code to the toString() method
17:38.06``ErikI guess isolating piece generating a loop and looking at its equivelant in a "correct" system (like pro-e) would be the litmus test for that
17:41.19``Erik(I'm being asked how to clear the command window in mged, anyone know off hand?)
17:42.10starseekerdrop down menu
17:42.27starseekerFile->Clear Command Window
17:42.55``Erikpassed, he says thanks
17:47.38brlcadheh
17:47.48brlcadwoulda just said "hit enter a few times"
17:48.06brlcador "implement a 'clear' command"
17:48.09``Erikwoulda assumed a "clear" command *shrug*
17:48.31starseekerDID assume a clear command
17:48.40starseekerIIRC, it lead to a discussion about polluting name spaces
17:48.40brlcadproblem with 'clear' is that it's a shell intrinsic
17:48.51brlcadunlike almost all other commands
17:49.01brlcadit's purpose is to control the console you're running in
17:49.22brlcadnot many commands do that, are only console-centric like that
17:49.55brlcadso as a ged command, it would take some sort of api change to tell mged that some sort of "clear the buffer" was requested
17:50.16brlcadunless it's left/exposed as an mged-only command of course, and doesn't live in libged
17:50.25brlcadwhich would make senss
17:50.27starseekerthinks the latter makes more sense
17:50.47brlcadthere ya go, patch it up ;)
17:50.53brlcadshould be a trivial command
17:50.58starseekernods
17:51.01``Erikmy thought was that it'd live all in src/tclscripts/mged
17:51.01starseekerone sec...
17:51.12brlcadeven have a menu already doing it, so there's a hook already doing it
17:51.17``Erik<PROTECTED>
17:51.28brlcadthat looks like it
17:51.44starseeker``Erik:  you already have it ready? ;-)
17:51.51``Eriknope, that's the menu cmd
17:52.17``ErikI have some serious nappi^Wcoding to do, instead O:-)
17:56.09``Erik(be a good lowhanging fruit for someone coming up to speed to do, imho)
18:00.37brlcadstarseeker: point being that you can just make a tcl proc that calls that same line as command (or better yet, refactor that to be 'clear' then make the menu command call clear)
18:00.58brlcadvery low-hanging
18:01.57``Erikyes, I was starting to do the 5minute hack, but held back because someone somewhere might benefit from doing it
18:02.15``Erik(we need to save easy stuff for new developers, as hard as it is)
18:02.34CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34187 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: mged/archer could use a 'clear' command. don't muck it into libged, though.
18:03.07``Erikponders suggesting that task out loud
18:09.51starseekeris trying to figure out how to refer to .$id.t from within somewhere other than openw.tcl...
18:13.03brlcadsrc/tclscripts/mged is fair game
18:13.56brlcadotherwise, you can actually request it too:  set id [get_player_id_t $w]
18:14.10brlcadif you're in widget code of course -- w is the widget handle
18:23.02brlcader, not widget, it's the window id
18:23.23brlcade.g., ".id_0.t"
18:23.35starseekerright
18:23.57brlcadset mged_players  will list the current top-level windows
18:24.42brlcad(basically every time you run "gui", it makes another player)
18:25.06brlcadif anyone has a recent build, see if tab-completion works
18:25.46``Erikseems to
18:26.05``Erikboth for commands and geometric names
18:26.25brlcadwith 7.14.7 ?
18:26.28``Erikup and installed this morning
18:26.29``Erikyes
18:26.44brlcadk
18:26.45brlcadthx
18:26.51``ErikBRL-CAD Release 7.14.7  The BRL-CAD Raytracer RT
18:26.51``Erik<PROTECTED>
19:00.28CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34188 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Bob and Cliff added a clear command to MGED - File->Clear Command Window also uses it now.
19:01.27``Erikbastards, that coulda been a newbies learning project :D
19:02.47starseekerwell, now we're down to 800 other potential projects ;-)
19:04.53brlcadthinks that shouldn't have needed to involve bob then too :P
19:05.25brlcadeasy access "just" to ask a question is still a context switch interruption on whatever he was doing
19:22.37starseekeris getting even for stock market context switches ;-)
19:23.51``Erikaw, c'mon, don't turn it into a zero sum game
19:23.59starseekerheh
19:32.07brlcadstarseeker: problem with clear, busted for classic mode
19:32.16brlcadit also assumes just one player
19:32.49brlcadneed to fix "mged -c" use as well as graphical use after you run 'gui' two or three times
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21:07.18starseekerbrlcad:  Hmm.  Was that always broken?
21:08.05starseeker(the multi gui I mean, obviously classic is a different case)
21:09.04``ErikO.o the menu approach defaults to the window it was called from.. there was nothing to be 'broken' until you did what you did
21:09.14starseekerok
21:22.48CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34189 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/clear.tcl: handle case where mged_players has more than one entry
21:27.51starseekerdidn't know anyone ran gui from within MGED
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21:51.35CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34190 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/ (clear.tcl openw.tcl):
21:51.35CIA-40BRL-CAD: OK, handle clean with mged -c, multiple gui instances, and put the window
21:51.35CIA-40BRL-CAD: command back where it was with the additions for handling character capture
21:51.35CIA-40BRL-CAD: (some sort of different behavior happening there, for now just restore correct
21:51.35CIA-40BRL-CAD: behavior.)
21:51.56starseekerbrlcad:  that should be better
21:52.55CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03r_weiss * r34191 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pnts/pnts.c: bug fixes for pnts primitive, added partial 'l' command support
22:30.18brlcadstarseeker: gui is a valid configuration for getting multiple views, alternative to multipane (a better one at that
22:30.48brlcadtechnically, behavior has changed now
22:30.55brlcadnot sure I care about it, but it is unexpected behavior
22:31.17brlcadit should clear the text widget that you type "clear" into, not all of them
22:31.33brlcadthe menu option did that, now it'll clear all of them if I read the patch right
22:31.48brlcadplus, I'm sure it'll still choke an error in -c mode
22:33.55``Erikthe update/output going to all windows when you execute a cmd is ... surprising
22:39.05CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Homovulgaris 07http://brlcad.org * r1379 10/wiki/User:Homovulgaris: /* Abstract */ scaling down
22:39.18brlcadthat's a feature
22:39.54brlcadkinda useful at times actually, but it is sort of odd
22:40.11brlcadbecause you can run mged -c > file and run gui to get a console, then you have a full transcript
22:40.35brlcadthat's part why it's useful, not why it's odd :)
22:41.17brlcadnot sure if there's a way for a command that is run in a given text widget to know which text widget it was invoked from
22:47.12CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Homovulgaris 07http://brlcad.org * r1380 10/wiki/User:Homovulgaris: /* Proposal */ time for libged integration increased by 65 %
22:47.33``Erik*shrug*
22:47.34brlcadwoot
22:47.38brlcad~madant++
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22:53.29madant__:)
22:57.28CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03Homovulgaris 07http://brlcad.org * r1381 10/wiki/User:Homovulgaris: /* Schedule */
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23:12.55brlcadthat's looking much better
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090409

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090409

00:20.12*** join/#brlcad dreeves (n=dreeves@64.178.177.71)
00:24.33dreeveswavies at brlcad
00:25.48brlcadhowdy dreeves
00:55.39*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:56.30poolioany news on the slot count?
00:58.48``Eriknot to my knowledge
01:00.32*** join/#brlcad dreeves_ (n=dreeves@64.178.177.71)
01:38.49``Erik"the hare club for men" heh
02:01.40``Erikwatches new southpark O.o
02:37.30starseekerbrlcad:  uh, r34189 or r34190?
02:37.47starseeker34190, in my testing, cleared only the window you type clear in
02:38.42starseekerI successfully tested it at work in classic mode and two gui configs...
02:38.52starseekerchecks to make sure he didn't mess something up again...
02:45.29starseekerbrlcad:  it seems to be working here... clear clears only the one window
02:48.18yukonbobI've got what I think is an auto* issue... anybody got spare cycles to help me understand/troubleshoot?
02:48.51yukonbobwhere "auto*" == autoconf, et al.
02:55.01*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
03:02.06starseekerpastebin?
03:11.46yukonbobstarseeker: I need to feed a value for LIBSTDC to Makefile in src/librt/
03:12.53yukonbobwhat I'm doing right now is running configure, then hand-editing the ./src/librt/Makefile to read: "LIBSTDC = -lstdc++"
03:14.28yukonbobMakefile.in has it's  "LIBSTDC = @LIBSTDC@", but I don't know how to fill that macro yet :p
03:14.59*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.140.31)
03:17.50``ErikAC_SUBST in configure.ac
03:17.56*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.140.31)
03:18.33yukonbob``Erik: thank you ;)
03:19.07``Eriknp
03:19.25yukonbobsouth park over, or you're multitasking?
03:19.49``Eriksouthpark was over 20 minutes ago, half watching a family guy rerun and getting ready to sleep :)
03:20.13yukonbobbippdy boo beepidy bah!
03:20.18yukonbob"What are you doing?"
03:20.30yukonbobI'm speaking Italian, Brian.
03:20.54yukonbob(moustache episode)
03:21.47``Erikyeah, this is the beard episode, they have quite a bit of range in their plotlines and hooks, huh? :D
03:22.51yukonbobo.O
03:23.07yukonbobwe both picked facial hair episode :P
03:23.26yukonbobhehe... maybe your "hare club" comment influenced the world...
03:25.32``Erikwhen a butterfly flaps it's wings in asia, a chain of events happen which results in no one giving a rats ass
03:25.34``ErikO:-)
03:26.51yukonbobhrmm...
03:27.08yukonbobwill have to play a bit with configure.ac to see what/how to set...
03:28.47``Erikbear in mind, any change to configure.ac will require at least an autoconf and configure, probably an autogen.sh and configure.... might be of use to make a tiny auto* project to test your ideas in before committing to that long process :)
03:29.26yukonbobnods
03:30.33madantlikes General Disarray
03:46.00*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
03:46.00*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.6 posted (20090403) || GSoC2009 Next Step: we're reviewing applications, preliminary slot count on 7th, selections announced on the 15th
03:54.32yukonbob!fscking linking
03:54.38yukonbobpacks out...
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06:19.42*** join/#brlcad ``Erik_ (i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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07:00.10jdolinersean are you around?
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07:50.05yukonbobjdoliner: if you have a question, ask away... somebody else may be able to hel; if not, brlcad will be back later and read scrollback... :)
07:50.18yukonbobhey _clock_
07:51.10jdolinerk it had to do with a gsoc comment he left
07:51.28jdolinerbut has anyone read an rt06 paper on nurbs csg
07:52.18yukonbobnot me.
07:52.45yukonbobwill be reviewing gsoc submissions tmo after work, too...
07:52.56yukonbobin meantime... ZzzzzZzz
07:53.03yukonbobnn, #brlcad
07:53.08archivistno zzz, thats lazy
07:53.20yukonbobheh
07:53.28archivist:)
07:53.42yukonbobarchivist: my computer will be working while I recharge myself.
07:53.53archivistexcuses
07:55.10yukonbobnot an excuse; hopefully a glimmer of hope, but I'm sleeping no matter what... I don't have the "sleep 4 hours/day" routine down :)
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08:18.30madanthmm.. brlcad should add a sleep command to this channel which displays "a little part of you dies everytime you sleep"
08:18.37madant~sleep
08:18.38ibot[sleep] overrated, and a poor substitute for caffeine.
08:18.52madanttime to changed that :P
08:19.19archivistin #mysql I have certain factoids randomised
08:19.40madantarchivist: like ;) ?
08:20.14madanthaha..like ~help .. overrated :D
08:21.01archivisthttp://www.wench.archivist.info/ and put excuse in the search box
08:23.19madantarchivist: sorry for being such a noob :) whats pma
08:23.32archivistphpmyadmin
08:23.58madantah ok :)
08:24.11archivisteasy web based mysql admin program, fools noobs easily
08:24.15madantme likes this
08:24.25madant<PROTECTED>
08:26.33archivistit also does not need a ~ to trigger so can be funny when noobs start talking to the bot
08:32.39madantis very much an irc noob and probably forever will be :)
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09:46.51hippieindamakin8madant_, awesome quote :P
09:49.02madanthippieindamakin8: how is school
09:49.32hippieindamakin8madant, bad :) as usual.
09:50.25hippieindamakin8just done with my btech project which was a sucess , trying to complete the other course projects too
09:54.46madanthippieindamakin8: what was ur btech project?
09:58.41hippieindamakin8madant, improving the flow rate and efficiency of a peristaltic micropump. (size of 1.5cm x 1cm)
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10:39.01brlcadstarseeker: ah, looks like another case of sf.net missing sending e-mails again
11:07.52brlcadI only got one mail where it was turned into a while loop
11:51.30CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34192 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/configure.ac: Added unistd.h to header checks and memcpy, memmove to function checks
11:54.04CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34193 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/ (5 files in 2 dirs): yylineno fixed to properly track parser line numbers
12:02.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34194 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
12:02.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: added hash initialize calls to the registry constructor, the registry hash tables were not being
12:02.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: initialized properly from the test programs. Also added checks in hash functions to make sure hash
12:02.01CIA-40BRL-CAD: is initialized only once.
12:04.28starseekerwoo-hoo!
12:04.32starseeker~indianlarry++
12:13.18starseekermakes note of this file to check later, but notes it apparently can't handle the cassini iv file: http://people.sc.fsu.edu/~burkardt/cpp_src/ivcon/ivcon.html
12:13.47starseekerwonder if it can be hooked up to the open inventor libraries themselves
12:16.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34195 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
12:16.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: Added "dirobj.cc" to step utils library for test programs also added the DEFS header
12:16.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: file "scl_config.h" and additional header checks for "unistd.h" and "sys/stat.h" to
12:16.37CIA-40BRL-CAD: "dirobj.cc". Replaced "scl_cf.h" usage with "scl_config.h" to reflect current config.
12:20.39brlcadheh, a 20k line file
12:21.36brlcadaside from horrible organization and use of globals, that's sort of what I'm hoping to put together with libgcv
12:23.26brlcadhe has a read and write routine for each format -- the reads adding to his (global) internal container(s), the writes exporting from whatever is in the containers
12:24.04brlcadgoing to do something similar, only using .g internal memory representation as the intermediary
12:24.21brlcadthe main() files we have are essentially a read or a write function
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12:34.07brlcadhello berndj
12:35.17berndjhmm, if you're human, hello. if a bot, hello too, i guess
12:42.36brlcadhehe, *beep* *boop*, greetings
12:45.09starseekerbrlcad:  do we want to use the .g format for somethign like that?  I admit it would serve our needs, but if libgcv is intended to be as generic as possible wouldn't it be better to user an intermediate format like STEP, which (in theory) could handle information we would lose going through the .g format?
12:45.20starseekerwe wouldn't care, but other conversion applications might
12:46.23starseekerplus, we might have to rework all the conversion routines if ever the .g format expanded to include something that had previously been tossed out
12:48.26starseekernotes meetings are approaching and decides he should head out now... bbl
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13:01.58brlcadfor our purposes, the .g format should actually suffice perfectly and (more importantly) is the least work to get the capability since that's what all our converters presently do
13:02.20brlcadreally don't want to rewrite dozens of converters
13:02.41brlcadaside from that, for solid modeling needs, our format supports everything that matters :)
13:03.17brlcadand can be made to support anything else (with something like libgcv, it's actually more reasonable to support stashing things we don't care about as attributes and binary goo)
13:04.07brlcadnot even clear if step would be effective as an in-memory only intermediary too
13:05.26brlcadstill, they 'might' need to be extended to add something we presently don't support, but they would have to be nearly completely rewritten to support a different data store
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13:08.00brlcadto the user/caller it would be opaque what the in-memory representation is
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16:37.13brlcadenjoys his new furniture
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17:16.52madantbrlcad: office redecoration ?
17:24.24brlcadmadant: no, for home -- bedroom suite delivery arrived today
17:24.33brlcadfinally, after about 9 months
17:24.37brlcader, weeks, heh
17:25.15madantheh that makes sense :D 9 months would have sucked
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19:23.54``Erikwho lives in a pineapple under the sea O.o
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19:50.40hippieindamakin8``Erik, spongebob squarepants
19:51.02hippieindamakin8brlcad, i need sometime with respect to the patch.
19:51.21hippieindamakin8working on the nmg to bot conversion routine.
19:53.21hippieindamakin8``Erik, that is one of the most awesome shows ever made
19:53.45hippieindamakin8brlcad, * some more time
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21:11.08elite01``Erik, hippieindamakin8, wtf? ^^
21:11.56hippieindamakin8elite01, ?
21:12.09elite01quoting spongebob and stuff
21:12.21hippieindamakin8aah
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090410

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090410

00:07.38*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-155.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
00:48.16brlcadwow
00:48.28brlcadso preliminary slot allocations were announced
00:48.37brlcadchecks to see if I'm allowed to share
00:48.47``Erikw00t, 0! go us!
00:49.27brlcadhehe
00:50.10brlcadlooks like five orgs didn't get their allocations in
00:50.10``Erikis kinda surprised at how many most projects got O.o 2 are a bit lower than I'd expect to see in the announcemen
00:50.25brlcad``Erik: very likely they asked for that few
00:50.31brlcadespecially if they're returning
00:50.39``Erik3
00:50.41brlcad'most' returning get what they ask for
00:50.43``Erikum,
00:50.46``Erik"bit lower" as in 0
00:50.53brlcadah, read the prolog
00:50.59brlcad0 means they were stupid
00:51.11brlcaddidn't put their count into the system
00:52.32``Erik*shrug*
00:52.40``Erikjust a draft, ain't nothin' set in stone yet
00:53.28brlcadyep, might go down a slot or two
00:53.49brlcadbut probably not too likely
00:54.31brlcad``Erik: in any regard, it's enough to rank -- going to keep it pretty simple this year unless you feel compelled for the chart again
00:54.52``Erikhuh? chart? whu?
00:54.53brlcadI figure if everyone marks their top five, they should all sort to the top
00:55.00brlcad``Erik: last year, the spreadsheet
00:55.03``Erikoh
00:55.11``Erikum, I read them all, I haven't commented on any yet
00:55.14``Erikor rated
00:55.38brlcadright, I know :)
00:55.40brlcadtime to rate :)
00:55.42``ErikI think I might need to re-read and take notes, and try to correlate a couple irc names to handles
00:55.52``Eriker, proposals
00:56.00brlcadonly really need to rank your top five most interesting
00:56.37``Erika couple of them, I don't think I understand them well enough to know if I think they're interesting
00:56.38brlcadI marked two categories already, one for returning and another for what I thought were really good applications
00:56.57brlcadand I believe daniel has ranked too
00:57.35``Erikcan see pros and cons to returning, not entirely sure how he feels on that subject
00:57.35brlcadand I think he basically picked his favorite
00:58.11brlcadyeah, I went back and forth but there's been a general consensus that returning for one year is cool
00:58.15brlcadtwo years, not so cool
00:58.19``ErikI imagine I'm not going to be assigned an explicit project, will just be a swiss army knife
00:58.49brlcadit's up to you, I was planning/hoping you would unless you want to do the admin evals at mid/final :)
00:59.09``Eriknothing this year has really jumped out at me quite like last years batch did
00:59.24brlcadmaybe that's a good thing :)
01:00.18brlcadstarseeker: same for you, time to rank -- let me know if you have questions
01:00.23brlcadyukonbob: too :)
01:04.05brlcad(decided to not share the slot count for anyone keeping track since it's not final)
01:05.45brlcadwow, some of the umbrella orgs have really stepped it up slot-wise this year
01:08.10brlcadand wow, way to go elena .. whipped up a drupal module for her patch :)
01:13.06Ralithoh yeah, brlcad, I'll have those milestones written up by sunday, k?
01:14.03Ralithunless you want it sooner
01:15.26brlcadRalith: I think that'll be okay
01:15.42brlcadRalith: curious, of your two projects -- is either more appealing than the other?
01:16.03brlcador better put, do you think you could enjoy working on either?
01:16.47RalithI would enjoy both; I'd probably enjoy any not-incredibly-frustrating opportunity to make a useful contribution in a way that takes advantage of my skills.
01:16.55Raliththat's not to say I consider them equal, though
01:17.55RalithI'm a little less confident about the GUI project as it's less well defined, but I'm very excited to work on it and bring us that much closer to a modern, userfriendly GUI.
01:18.19Ralithwhereas the TCL work is fairly mundane, but I expect still rewarding, as we discussed.
01:31.16``Erikooh, krod mandoon in half an hour
01:34.24yukonbobviews submissions....
01:38.28yukonbobremind me: Are the "private comments" private w/i the group of mentors, or private between the student and a single mentor?
01:38.34yukonbob``Erik: ---^
01:38.42yukonbobbrlcad: --^
01:42.04yukonbobnm.
01:48.15brlcadyukonbob: private amongst mentors
01:48.22yukonbobsaw :)
01:48.27brlcadsee some of the other existing ones that have comments
01:49.05brlcad``erik, starseeker, yukonbob: be sure to mark any you're willing to mentor too
01:49.17brlcadI can't sign you up for anything
01:53.08*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=500@resnet-46-40.dorm.utexas.edu)
02:08.59*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
02:09.39yukonbobhey pacman87
02:09.44yukonbob, PrezKennedy
02:09.48pacman87hi yukonbob
02:09.53PrezKennedyhey yukonbob
02:25.44``Erikknows, has been through this once before :)
02:30.52yukonbobpacks out... little more reviewing to do, but is really pretty easy decision making...
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04:08.02starseekerbrlcad:  are we tracking anywhere who has submitted patches?
05:36.39dreevesbrlcad you there?
05:37.10dreevesstarseeker you around?
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06:17.20yukonbobdreeves: best way to ask a question is typically just ask... despite IRC being realtime, everybody isn't glued here all the time... we do read scrollback, though :)
06:36.12pacman87the ones who are glued here all the time fall under the 'against their will' category in:
06:36.14pacman87~ask
06:36.36ibotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
06:37.04yukonbobwaves to pacman87
06:37.10pacman87waves back
06:37.23yukonboblate in Texas, isn't it?
06:37.31pacman87i'm currently working on my tetris program for the 6811
06:37.36pacman87yeah, 1:40 am
06:37.45pacman87first class is at 2pm, though
06:37.51yukonbobnods
06:38.00yukonbobno work for me tmo... Good Friday
06:38.16pacman87and i was up til 4am last night doing the circuit board layout
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08:42.50brlcadstarseeker: pretty much in my head, you're welcome to ask them though
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08:51.15hippieindamakin8gmorning folks
08:53.22brlcadhowdy hippieindamakin8
08:53.54hippieindamakin8brlcad, yeah abt the patch i ll be able to submit it in by sunday
08:54.32pacman87wanders off to sleep
08:54.47madantfollows pacman87
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10:19.31madant~sleep
10:19.41ibotmethinks sleep is overrated, and a poor substitute for caffeine.
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12:46.36``Erik*yawn*
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13:43.05starseekerdreeves: sorry, I was out cold
13:43.07starseekerwhat's up?
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13:44.47dreevesstarseeker that's alright I think I figured out what I was going to ask you
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16:08.04brlcadloves this: http://bzflag.bz/tmp/push_button.png
16:20.54pacman87someone wrote that on the hand dryer in our bathroom
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16:48.14``Erikfree pizza, w00t
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19:33.54``Erikhuh http://www.indiangeek.net/programmer-competency-matrix/
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21:26.39*** join/#brlcad Malyce (n=iamtanma@wlanaccess-ext.jacobs-university.de)
21:28.11Malycehi, I was trying to make a makefile for the coreInterface code
21:28.38MalyceI wasn't sure exactly how to link the coreInterface files to the already built brl-cad files
21:28.59MalyceI am thinking the easiest way would be to append to the already existing makefile
21:29.04Malycefor the main code
21:29.30Malycebut, it is too complex, and I am having trouble understanding it
21:33.57yukonbob``Erik: re: matrix -- "Level 3: maintains a blog with personal insights and thoughts on programming"
21:39.30``Erikit's an amusing matrix from a winiot newb dev, wouldn't put a lot of stock in it, but it was amusing :)
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21:50.43yukonbob``Erik: re: putting stock in: agreed, but a bit interesting...
21:50.53yukonbob``Erik: so... .where's your blog?
21:50.54yukonbob:)
21:57.27``ErikI have a blog?
21:59.47Malyce2You have a blog ?
22:16.57Malyce2soooo, noone to talk to here ?
22:17.01``Erikssh
22:17.07yukonbobwe're sleeping here!!
22:17.09``Erikwe're trying to lurk here
22:17.21yukonbobsleeps, ``Erik lurks
22:17.34archivistadmits nothing
22:17.38``Erikin the shadows... waiting to pounce
22:17.45``Erikstalks his 12oz prey o.O
22:17.46Ralithadmits everything!
22:17.50yukonboblike a puma?
22:18.03Malyce2is bored
22:18.13yukonbobMalyce2: write a patch?
22:18.15alex_jonibored? what is that?
22:18.20Malyce2how do you guys keep changing your statuses ?
22:18.25yukonbobmodel a moose?
22:18.30Malyce2That's what I yam doin
22:18.31alex_jonia supercow
22:18.38Ralitha tron cycle
22:18.39Malyce2That's who I am, supercow
22:18.40``Eriklooks at the patch ideas, bug list, todo lists, etc and wonders how ANYONE could be bored around here O.o
22:18.44yukonbobRalith++
22:18.56Malyce2hey, so abt the makefile thingie
22:19.07Ralithboredom is what happens when you refuse to let yourself do something.
22:19.14``Erikhttp://www.onlinegamingradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/tron_guy.jpg   <-- ralith
22:19.42yukonbob!HA
22:19.46Malyce2since I am working with coreInterface, I am making my own makefile. I don't know how to link it to the already built brl-cad libraries
22:19.49Malyce2no clue ?
22:20.03``Erikprobably something like "-L/usr/brlcad/lib -lrt"
22:20.12Ralithdon't hardcode that though
22:20.14Ralithget it from pkgconfig
22:20.39Malyce2I haven't done this before, and the tut's don't say anything.
22:21.02Malyce2Am I not also suppose to link with the headers and C files from the main brl-cad ?
22:21.03Ralithyou using cmake or GBS?
22:21.08Malyce2GBS
22:21.21Ralithgoogle up some docs
22:21.30Malyce2not used to working with large projs, so noob here
22:21.33Ralithit's not too hard to set up a simple project and get linker flags from pkgconfig
22:21.48Malyce2I'll look it up
22:22.11yukonbobthinks he likes cmake
22:22.17Ralithlikes cmake too.
22:22.31``Erikrt^3 should have autoconf stuff that fills that all in for you, though
22:22.34Ralithy'still want to use pkgconfig to get paths, though
22:22.59Ralithwas amazed that nobody had noticed the pkg-config files were broken.
22:23.03yukonbob_does_ wonder why they're inventing a new language though, instead of intergrating something like python or tcl, which are finished languages with less-goffy syntax :P
22:23.14yukonbob*less-goofy
22:23.18Ralithyukonbob: fewer dependencies perhaps?
22:23.29``Erikbecause those who don't learn history are doomed to repeat it
22:23.36yukonbob``Erik++
22:23.38Malyce2I am not using all of rt^3
22:23.44yukonbobRalith: tcl is so light, it's stupid.
22:23.48Malyce2only CoreInterface. You recommend getting all of it ?
22:23.58``Erikso? do the autoconf cycle, run ./configure, then cd into the coreInterface directory and do maket here
22:24.19``Erikor build it all, once that's done, only your changes will be recompiled, unchanged stuff will just sit there
22:24.43Ralithyukonbob: owell.
22:24.52Ralithcmake is nevertheless shiny.
22:25.08yukonbobnods...
22:25.15``Erikso're the 12 other popular auto* imitations
22:25.25yukonbobeasier for me to wrap brain around than auto*, libtool, etc.
22:27.25yukonbob``Erik: only other systems I've played with are hand-coded Makefile (great for trivial tasks), scons, and cmake
22:27.47yukonbobjava has a few, but unfortunately are java-bases ;P
22:27.51yukonbob*based
22:27.56yukonbob(ant)
22:27.57``Erikeck, ant *shudder*
22:28.36``Erikauto* is one of those things where it's all magic and confusing, then there's a eureka moment and you kick yourself for not seeing it before
22:28.37RalithI like cmake's skill at finding deps even with few hints and its percentful output
22:28.42yukonbob"enterprise" class (i.e.: requires a contract with consultants to make work reasonably)
22:29.01Ralithpercent complete is awesome to have.
22:29.04``Erikit's all really really super-simple, but it does impressive stuff... so people assume there's more to it :( it's really simple substitution rules
22:29.18yukonbobdoes _not_ like the %-full output, or the colours... but feh.
22:29.24Ralithcolors aren't necessary
22:29.39Ralithbut don't tell me you've never been staring at a firefox build wondering just how far along it is
22:30.03Ralitheven if it's no ETA, it's nice to know whether you're just beginning or about to finish.
22:30.12``Erikruns system update builds in another window and goes to do other stuff
22:30.23``Erikstaring at it won't make it go faster
22:30.32Ralithlies!
22:30.35``Erik:D what's the phrase, a watched pot never boils?
22:30.53Raliththe problem is when 'other stuff' conflicts with the build
22:30.56yukonbobeven a stoped clock gives the right time, twice a day?
22:31.04yukonboba stich in time saves 9?
22:31.07Ralithe.g. installing other stuff, fiddling with X, rebooting for w/e reason...
22:31.16Ralithnot common cases but really annoying when they come up
22:31.18``Erika penny saved is a penny *smacks yukonbob*
22:31.19yukonboblet sleeping dogs lie
22:31.26yukonbobLOL
22:31.41yukonbobis channelling "too much coffee man vs. cliche man"
22:32.22yukonbob``Erik: interstingly, your reply is similar to what gave tmcm the edge in the battle.
22:32.40``Eriktmcm?
22:33.14``Eriktoo much coffee man
22:33.41``Eriknot on my usual webcomic rotation
22:33.54yukonbobhttp://library.buffalo.edu/libraries/asl/guides/graphicnovels/img/Coffee1.jpg
22:35.52yukonbobhttp://comixtalk.com/images/july2006/coffee2.png
22:37.29``Erikor, uh, http://www.tmcm.com/comics/webcomics/001_waste ?
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22:42.22*** join/#brlcad Malyce (n=ubuntu@deimos.jacobs-university.de)
22:58.52Malycewhy is the firefox browser in ubuntu, so ridiculously slow ?
22:59.08Malyceit really sucks compared to firefox in windows
23:02.17MalyceAnd I don't mean the internetss . This app hangs like every 2 secs
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23:19.42RalithMalyce: it's not.
23:19.55Ralithwell, not in the sense you describe anyway
23:22.09Malycemaybe its because I have Ubuntu mid right now
23:22.40Malyceits supposed to be for Intel Atom processors. But, I find it hard to believe that any Ubuntu distro would run slower than windows
23:33.25``Erikmight be worth monitoring your memory and swap utilization
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23:39.32starseekerdreeves: IIRC, the next step for brep is incorporating Utah's trimming?
23:43.18RalithMalyce: what normally causes that kind of behavior is you having far too little memory for what you're trying to do
23:48.48Malycecould be true. Windoze does sometimes lag, because this is a low-end machine with only 512 megs. But, its seems to handle it much better
23:49.20MalyceI think I will experiment with other distros, and see
23:59.58Raliththis is probably because you are not trying to run as many apps in windows.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090411

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090411

00:03.15Malycenot true. actually I think I figured it out. Windoze I am running from SSD, Ubuntu MID from Flash mem - write speed is dramatically slower 10mbs for SSD, 1mbs for Flash
00:03.35MalyceA lot of swapping probably is the death of this OS then.
00:04.12Ralithjust use a browser that doesn't take up hundreds of MB of ram
00:04.15Ralithi.e. anything but firefox
00:04.17Ralithand use a minimal WM
00:05.55MalyceRAM probably isn't the problem. I am guessing its the swap, because windows is quite bearable, even with many apps open.
00:06.05MalyceWM - working memory ?
00:06.17MalyceAnd there are better browsers than firefox ?
00:06.43MalyceChrome ?
00:08.36Ralith'many apps' has almost nothing to do with how much memory is in use
00:08.45Ralithand I never said anything about a better browser
00:08.50Ralithand WM means window manager.
00:08.52brlcadRalith: a tron cycle would be awesome, I have some pictures from the film that shown much of the CSG that was used
00:09.06Ralithbrlcad: yeah, I was referring to your interest.
00:09.49RalithMalyce: RAM is the problem because when you run out of RAM stuff uses swap instead.
00:10.48brlcadRalith: as for the pkg-config files -- I wrote them up for folks to use but since we don't/didn't use them internally, they were never tested..
00:11.18Ralithah, heh.
00:11.47Ralithwell, once tweaked, their use made the g3d build system much cleaner/more portable.
00:12.53brlcadcatches up
00:13.15Ralithsup
00:13.17brlcadyeah, it's nice to have them actually in use so they can stay up-to-date
00:13.32brlcadthat was the intent after all, to use them
00:14.17brlcadgenerally a pretty long turn-around for external codes to change how they hook in to us, so figured it'd at least be there for whenever someone asks
00:14.56brlcadwould pay for a lightcycle
00:18.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34196 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS doc/docbook/system/man1/en/coil.xml src/shapes/coil.c): Add flag to change winding direction to coil tool.
00:20.46starseekerbrlcad:  that was the easy one - now I need to tackle length :-)
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00:43.38yukonbobis starting to think he'd pay for a build :P
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01:47.17Malycehttp://bzflag.pastebin.ca/1388531
01:47.31MalyceI am getting the X11 error, though I have libx11-dev
01:47.48Malycelibxext-dev, libxi-dev
01:48.11yukonbobhits road
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02:23.04madant:) quick dumb doubt.. say i have two list of numbers, one per line in two files any way of checking how many numbers in file a is in file b :) some simple bash thingy i mean
03:14.19dreevesstarseeker yep that is what I'm working on I have found a couple of bugs in the opennurbs stuff that is causing problems plus how utah does trims and opennurbs is a little different but I think I'm closing in on it
03:15.32dreeveswhat is IIRC?
03:22.17``Erik"if I recall correctly"
03:32.29``Erikmadant: yes.
03:37.21``Erikboth files need to be sorted, then there's a command, uh, I forget the name, but it can show 3 columns, what file A has that file B does not, what they both have, and what file B has that A does not... can't effin' remember the name of it, though :(
03:45.45madant``Erik: came up with two ways :) thanks to #gsoc : cat A B|sort -n|uniq -d|wc -l
03:45.54madantor comm -1 -2 A B|wc -l
03:46.19madant``Erik: and yeah the one you are referring to is uniq ;)
03:46.32madantoops comm i meant :)
03:46.54``Erikyeahhhhh, comm, that's it
03:48.01``Erikthe 'uniq' approach will fail if numbers can be repeated in a file
03:48.23madantsuch an elusive un"common" name for such a nice program :)
03:48.41madantyeah, uniq has its limits
03:48.58``Erikhey, it's midnight, I've been drinking beer and playing wow, that I at least had the notion is good! :D
03:49.45madanti am always taken by surprise by the utility of such nice simple tools :)
03:50.26madantunix approach always works ;)
03:50.27``Erikheh, didn't you have a big bin of legos when you were a kid?
03:50.27``Erika little imagination and ya had any toy you could want, all from simple little bricks, no? :D
03:51.10madantwas not much of a "toy" person while growing up :D
03:51.23madantbut yeah imagination and a few brciks ;)
03:51.38madantlike Louis I Kahn said "Each brick wants to be something"
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09:56.54hippieindamakin8madant, some more polish bands for you : believe,quidam
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13:26.48hippieindamakin8can somebody elaborate on the function of nmg_ckmag(....)
13:39.11hippieindamakin8nvm ^
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14:49.32``Erika/win show 2
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18:32.07jdolinercan anyone tell me what a segment in a sketch looks like?
18:32.18jdolineris it just an struct with start and end points?
18:33.15jdolinerand also does the reverse array actually get filled in?
18:33.56pacman87jdoliner: depends on what type of segment it is
18:34.15jdolinerhmm, what types are there?
18:34.16pacman87LSEG (line segment) is just start/end points
18:34.43pacman87there's also circular arcs and splines
18:34.48jdolinerthis is in rt_sketch_internal
18:35.05jdolineris it allowed to have arcs and splines?
18:35.08pacman87are you asking about the code or the file format
18:35.10pacman87?
18:36.02jdolinerI'm asking what I can do with genptr_t *segments;
18:36.29jdolinerthe problem is that we're getting sketches where the segments aren't nose to tail
18:36.47jdolinernot sure if that qualifies as code or file format
18:37.35brlcadit's a code issue
18:37.45jdolinerk
18:38.12pacman87i'm looking over my sketch-related code in revolve
18:38.29brlcadwell both really -- it's whether or not something declared as "A->B, B->C, D->C, A->D" is valid
18:38.53brlcadright now, it's not considered 'valid' and gives bad/unexpected results
18:38.58brlcadeven though that forms a closed loop
18:39.09brlcadit's just not directionally closed
18:39.24pacman87i remember writing something to handle that case
18:39.26jdolinerright
18:40.34brlcadif they're considered bidirectional connections (which they probably should), then some work needs to happen during shot() or during import/export to make things work
18:41.03pacman87revolve.c, lines 111 to 178
18:41.18jdolineryeah I was planning to just write something that can look at an rt_db_internal, and see if we can make a directional closed sketch out of a bidirectionally closed sketch
18:41.41pacman87if the endpoint is used an odd number of times, it contains an endpoint
18:41.50pacman87if it's even, it's not
18:43.16jdolinerin brlcad's example everything is used an even number of times
18:43.38pacman87right, my code doesn't do exactly what you want
18:43.53pacman87since all i needed to know was whether it was closed or open
18:43.58jdolinerwhat does rt_curve_order_segments do?
18:44.14pacman87and if it was open, i use a simple algorithm to add segments so that it becomes closed
18:57.58pacman87rt_curve_order_segments looks like it does what you want
18:58.45pacman87though it won't tell you if the sketch was open, or if it failed
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090412

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090412

00:08.28*** join/#brlcad dreeves2 (n=4b407196@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:09.22dreeves2starseeker was there a reason you were asking about trimming or were you just curious about status?
00:18.14yukonbobdreeves needs to be told about bitchx, irssi, or similar, and perhaps screen and some always-on account...
00:18.52yukonbobdreeves: -----^
00:19.23yukonbob(if your physical self is indeed associated with this network instance)
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01:15.26dreeves2hey starseeker
01:21.37yukonbobdreeves2: are you still 'attached' to the dreeves instance here?
01:29.16dreeves2I'm not near that computer currently why?
01:35.59yukonbobdreeves2: just wondering why you're logged in 2x ;) -- I noticed you're earlier (and this?) client was a cgi gateway, and suggested you get irssi/screen/ and some always-on account, but apparently you're already setup :)
01:36.17yukonbobs/you're earlier/your earlier/
01:45.05dreeves2umm no I just downloaded another client here but that is a good suggestion I have been thinking I need to get that.  I will look into that later
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10:42.43MalyceI built brlcad with 'make' in /home/ubuntu/brl-sf  I ran ./configure --prefix=/home/ubuntu/brl-sf  for the rt^3 module
10:42.45Malycehttp://bzflag.pastebin.ca/1389557
10:43.19Malycethe ./configure went fine, but make died
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16:22.09clark8ei
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20:34.04FAMULUSare there improvements to g-stl since version 7.12.2?
20:34.35FAMULUSg-stl is slow as molasses
20:42.24tofuFAMULUS: not any changes that will affect it's performance
20:42.27tofupatches welcome ;)
20:44.29RalithFAMULUS: eventually it'll get deprecated by brep based stuff
20:44.45tofunot really, at least not g-stl
20:45.11tofustl is a polygonal format -- going through the brep routines might make some things that used to fail no longer fail
20:45.47tofubut the reason it takes a long time is because it's trying to verify that the mesh being exported is clean with normals facing outward and solid
20:46.05tofuexpensive operation that wouldn't go away with brep necessarily
20:46.37tofuFAMULUS: you could use the newer bot_dump command that is MUCH faster (as it makes absolutely no attempt to verify anything being exported
20:47.02RalithI got the impression that brep would make mesh generation relatively reliable, lessening the need for verif.
20:47.52tofusure, more robust for the things that presently fail (which is like approx < 1% of geometry, but prevalent enough)
20:48.01FAMULUShey guys
20:48.06tofustill, that's just not the time-intensive step
20:48.41FAMULUStofu: would bot_dump be expected to produce usable STL files?
20:48.49tofuyou can not do that verification now (hence bot_dump), it's more supposed to be a guarantee of a solid modeling system to always import/export solid objects
20:49.07tofuFAMULUS: sure stl is a stupid format
20:49.12tofuit doesn't care
20:49.28tofujust if you feed that STL into another solid modeling system, it may or may not work
20:49.43tofuas it may or may not be solid
20:49.48FAMULUSmy target would be a rapid prototyper
20:50.17tofuideally for a rapid prototyper, I'd expect a need for solid geometry
20:50.29tofubut then there are lots of other variables
20:50.37FAMULUStofu: ok, so g-stl is the only way to got now
20:51.03tofuif you have a rapid prototyping system that takes stl inputs, it may very well clean up on import too or have other ways of dealing with non-solid mesh geometry
20:51.32tofuno, I"d say try bot_dump out if performance is really a problem and not just an annoyance, see what the impact is
20:51.49tofuotherwise, make it better ;)
20:51.52FAMULUStofu: ok, that's my project for today
20:52.02tofuthe verification/closure algorithm isn't optimized, I'm sure
20:52.08FAMULUStofu: my stls take like days, it's a non starter
20:52.20tofuhow big of a mesh?
20:52.31FAMULUS10,000 triangesl
20:52.37FAMULUSfor smaller pieces
20:52.39tofuthat's not that big
20:52.42FAMULUSbut large ones
20:52.43tofuhow many objects?
20:52.57FAMULUSgood question, one sec
20:54.35tofuanother issue, stil files are "single object" files, so if you have a hierarchy or big assembly of objects, the code has to combine them all into one collection
20:54.54tofuthat unification can take a long (O(N^3)) time
20:55.27FAMULUStofu: how do I get count directly, I can't copy from mged terminal
20:56.43Ralithtofu: really? I would have imagined that traversing even a large tree would be pretty fast, in human terms
20:57.02Ralithperforming all the boolean ops on meshes, perhaps less so
20:57.14FAMULUSI'd guess ~200 objects
20:57.43tofunothing to do with traversing the tree, it's the "merge mesh A into mesh B, performing pairwise tests across the sets, them merge in mesh C and do that again, then merge in mesh D, etd etc
20:57.50FAMULUShttp://prometheusfusionperfection.wordpress.com/2009/02/09/chassis-redesign/
20:57.58FAMULUSthis is the part
20:59.02tofuhm, yeah -- I bet it's the way you're doing your booleans causing it to be a worst case N^3
20:59.11tofudid you make any reqgions?
20:59.14tofuregions
20:59.21FAMULUStofu: I think
20:59.22RalithFAMULUS: you modeled that in mged? Nice!
20:59.38FAMULUS`#{mged} 'r torus_negative#{index} u torus_negative_outer#{index} - torus_negative_inner#{index} '` #this hollow center of the torus
20:59.52FAMULUSRalith: ruby emitting mged commands
21:00.04Ralithstill nice.
21:00.05Ralithvery pretty.
21:00.09FAMULUSRalith: thanks!
21:00.12Ralithwhat is it?
21:00.19hippieindamakin8FAMULUS, Ralith +1
21:00.29FAMULUSIt's a fusion reactor core
21:00.53FAMULUSRalith: about: http://prometheusfusionperfection.wordpress.com/about/
21:00.55Ralithand you plan on rapid prototyping it? O.o
21:01.03``Erikthe topology verifier is superlinear, it's an unavoidable suck. B-rep/NURB will only make it not suck if everything is in nurbs
21:01.42``Erik(make mged accept ruby statements, then we'll be impressed ;)
21:01.47FAMULUSRalith: alread got test parts: http://prometheusfusionperfection.wordpress.com/2009/02/20/manifest/
21:02.15Ralithcool!
21:02.19Ralithbest of luck to you.
21:03.20Ralithare you expecting to get positive net energy?
21:03.40FAMULUSRalith: supposedly it's possible with bussard reactor
21:03.48FAMULUSRalith: my goal for now is first fusion
21:03.59Ralithyou realize that research teams with millions in funding haven't managed that.
21:04.06FAMULUSRalith: I know
21:04.07tofuFAMULUS: it might take a while for someone to look into it, but you could post your .g file up somewhere (maybe to the sf.net tracker) to investigate if there's something simple that can be done to speed things up
21:04.22FAMULUSRalith: that's why it's so exciting
21:05.51FAMULUSRalith: the fusor (the precursor to bussard reactor) has a long tradition of amateurs (14 or so)
21:06.00FAMULUSRalith: so it's not unreasonable to think it possible
21:07.12RalithI imagine so.
21:07.22Ralithnevertheless, you'll embarass a lot of people if you manage
21:08.46Ralithlooks like you have a pretty good idea what you're doing, certainly
21:09.20``Erikembarrassing a lot of people is a good thing
21:09.24FAMULUSRalith: I lean alot alot every day
21:09.30FAMULUSlearn^
21:09.34``Erikit's a loud "get your head out of your ass"
21:09.40``Erikalso; "a lot" is two words
21:10.27Ralithembarassing people is indeed positive.
21:10.33Ralithespecially people with millions of dollars.
21:11.39FAMULUSRalith: I got to get mged working before any embarassing happens!~
21:11.48Ralithheh
21:12.06FAMULUSbrb, heading to cafe.
21:20.02Ralithtofu: just how fast *is* bot_dump?
21:20.14Ralithfast enough to use it for shaded rendering?
21:22.13*** join/#brlcad FAMULUS (n=mark@pool-98-116-35-99.nycmny.east.verizon.net)
21:25.43``Erikno
21:26.04Ralithdamn.
21:26.33FAMULUStofu: is bot_dump available in 7.12.2?
21:29.52RalithFAMULUS: any reason not to update?
21:30.18Ralithalso: I suspect most rapid prototyping services are used to recieving non-solid STLs from graphic artists and such, so you'll probably be ok
21:30.45``ErikI suspect most of them charge a fair amount if they have to 'fix' the geometry
21:31.38CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1382 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Added first draft of milestones for OpenGL GUI SoC proposal
21:32.09RalithI'd be surprised
21:32.11``Erikralith: iirc, bot_dump expects bot geometry and just walks the tree dumping raw numbers
21:32.13Ralithbut I haven't done it.
21:32.30Ralith``Erik: er, so not at all useful for generating tesselations of solid models?
21:32.57``Erika sphere, for example, is not a bot, so does not dump directly. Would have to go through the NMG pass before being bot_dump-able
21:33.32``Erikwe have some pieces done in a 3d printer at the office, they take stl but they have to be well defined stl's
21:33.56Ralithwell, of course.
21:33.58FAMULUS``Erik: does bot_dump produce stls?
21:34.03Ralithbrbs
21:34.09Ralithwtf, brlcad's not here
21:34.11Ralithoh well
21:34.18``Erikbot_dump produces funky 'bot' files, but stl's aren't much different
21:34.43``Erikuhhhhhhh, I think there's a flag to g-stl to ignore topology verification, which makes it really fast
21:34.58``Erik(if not, there should be *hint* *hint*)
21:36.25FAMULUS``Erik: we'll if I'm stuck with slow g-stl, I was thinking running on a ec2 instance
21:36.38FAMULUS``Erik: so I can forget about it for a while
21:36.51``Eriktechnically, BOT allows irregular geometry (the kind video game weenies like)
21:37.06``Erikso bot->printableSTL requires verification
21:37.15``Erikknowwutahmean,vern?
21:37.21FAMULUS``Erik: which is what makes it slow
21:37.31``Erikayup :(
21:37.32FAMULUSso the verification ^
21:38.02FAMULUS``Erik: is BRL-CAD easy to install on ubuntu
21:38.18``ErikI suspect so, famulus... I don't use linux, so *shrug*
21:38.49``ErikI used to maintain the debian port, but I lost my debian box due to political cocksuckery
21:39.35``Erik"linux" is in the regular maintenance path, though, so if you have the right deps installed, it should compile easy
21:39.53FAMULUSok
21:40.05``Erik(brlcad, starseeker and I tend to use redhat mostly, I think starseeker uses gentoo or something, as well)
21:40.20*** join/#brlcad kanzure (i=bryan@66.112.232.233)
21:40.43``Erik<-- hard up on fbsd, brlcad is big on osX
21:40.45``Erik:)
21:41.07FAMULUS``Erik: my laptop is os x, but EC2 would be ubuntu
21:41.24``Erikbut we all have a serious hardon for portability, so we drag it to solaris or irix once in a while, and I'm big into 'mega' unix portability, hpux and aix and those
21:41.28FAMULUS``Erik: I can't let g-stl process for days, I need to close my laptop
21:41.47``Erikeven has an image sitting around for a BSD4.3 on vax11/780
21:41.57``Erikwhy do you need to close it?
21:42.06``ErikI leave my macbook open for, uh, months at a whack
21:42.11``ErikI only shut it down when I have to fly
21:42.14FAMULUS``Erik: you know, scene changes
21:42.18FAMULUSgoing to work
21:42.21FAMULUSetc
21:42.41``Erikhuh, well, if you close your macbook, it sleeps, it doesn't shut down
21:42.53``Erikso when you open it, it loads up the memory image and continues
21:43.06``Erik*shrug*
21:43.16FAMULUS``Erik: true
21:43.26FAMULUS``Erik: but you can't really use it without a plug
21:43.31FAMULUS``Erik: CPU pegged
21:43.37``Erik"man nice"
21:43.45``Erik"man batch"
21:44.10FAMULUS``Erik: good idea
21:44.23``Erik(leave the laptop at home *cough*)
21:45.03FAMULUS``Erik: that's what servers are for
21:45.07``Erikayup
21:45.29``ErikI seem to be saying "uh, start it on friday and come back on monday" a lot lately :(
21:45.30FAMULUS``Erik: would a g-stil web service be useful to community?
21:45.48``ErikI'd be surprised
21:46.00``Erikthe cost of such a service would outweigh 99.9999% folks benefits
21:46.23``Erikfeel free to try it, but I don't think it'd be ... profitable?
21:46.57FAMULUS``Erik: so I'm the only person with this issue?
21:47.15``Erikthe "NMG is slow" is a known issue
21:48.47FAMULUSn-manifold geometry
21:49.50``Erikalso called "non-manifold geometry", sometimes both in the same documentation :(
21:50.06``Erik(including, apparently, the original paper Muuss did)
21:50.14Ralithheh
21:50.38``Erikwas a topic of discussion last thursday or so
21:50.45FAMULUS``Erik: I don't see a wikipedia article for that
21:50.53RalithFAMULUS: I'd try disabling the verification in g-stl and sending off the resultant file.  Worst-case scenario, they ask you to send them a fixed one.
21:51.31FAMULUSRalith: what's flag for that?
21:51.40Ralithno idea
21:51.50Ralithas ``Erik says, it may not exist.
21:51.52Ralithmight not be too hard to add.
21:52.06Ralithon an unrelated note
21:52.09Ralith``Erik: you mentoring?
21:52.28``Erikdoes not see such a flag
21:52.42FAMULUS``Erik: vaporware
21:52.43``Erikum, I'm listed as an admin and kinda thinking my roll will be admin, a mentor for mentors
21:53.06Raliththat probably works too.
21:53.11Ralithcould I talk ya into reviewing my milestones?
21:53.21``Erikthough I'm always willing to help with spot details here :)
21:53.43``Erikum, yeah, I suppose I should look at the applicants, yes
21:53.47Ralithhehe
21:53.48hippieindamakin8Ralith, done with the patch ?
21:53.52Ralithwhat patch
21:53.59``Erikwe kinda request a patch up front
21:54.08Ralithoh that
21:54.16``Erikto verify that you know how to code, can use the VCS, etc
21:54.21Ralithwell, considering that I've made several miscellaneous commits in the last few weeks...
21:54.21hippieindamakin8is working on it now :|..
21:54.29``Eriknothin' big, but it's a stumbling block for many
21:54.30RalithI think I've got that covered.
21:54.32hippieindamakin8Ralith, that should do i guess
21:54.58hippieindamakin8loves his fresh archlinux install
21:55.07Ralith``Erik: unless I actually should find myself something else to code up?
21:55.13Ralithperhaps this g-stl flag, even.
21:55.27Ralithalso that reminds me
21:55.42RalithFAMULUS: getting BRL-CAD running on linux is easy, even if you have to compile it by hand; I wouldn't be concerned.
21:56.04Ralithhas ran it on every linux/unix system he's had, and it's always been one of the easiest bits.
21:56.14FAMULUSRalith: ok good
21:56.25``Erikif you're committing, you're already in the circle the patch is for
21:56.32Ralithyeah, that's what I thought.
21:56.47hippieindamakin8Ralith, yeah watever be the case.. most debian systems have the problem of the missing libx11-dev files
21:56.48Ralithgood to have it confirmed.
21:57.02Ralithhippieindamakin8: er, can't you just install libx11-dev then?
21:57.04hippieindamakin8gets back to work .. :P
21:57.15FAMULUS``Erik: have you guys though about using github?
21:57.22RalithFAMULUS: to host the repo? O.o
21:57.27``Erikerm
21:57.29FAMULUS``Erik: makes it easier to contribute I think
21:57.33hippieindamakin8Ralith, yeah , u have to :)
21:57.34Ralithchanging versioning systems would be a huge deal.
21:57.40Ralithhippieindamakin8: well of course you do
21:57.42Ralithbut that's trivial
21:57.44kanzuredoes the svn-to-git software even work yet?
21:58.04``Erikwe just went through the pain of cvs->svn, and I think we like the centralized VCS
21:58.04``Erik:)
21:58.04Ralithdoes like how arch installs headers with everything, though
21:58.13hippieindamakin8Ralith, exactly :)
21:58.16``Erikeffin' HATES how one of his projects has deps that require: CVS, SVN, darcs, git, ...
21:58.32``Erikralith: if you like that, check out one of the BSD's
21:58.40``Erikwe've been doin' it that way since, uh, the 80's
21:58.40``Erik:D
21:58.41RalithI used to run FreeBSD.
21:58.47RalithI got tired of waiting hours for firefox to compile :P
21:58.51``Erikhehehe
21:58.56Ralitharch is a good compromise
21:59.00``Erikpkg_add can grab a binary
21:59.05Ralithminimal and dev-friendly, but binary-friendly too
21:59.20Ralithsure, it *can*, but the system's really made to use sources, and binaries can lead to problems
21:59.28``Erik*shrug* whatever makes you happy :) I like fbsd myself, I'm ok with letting a "portmanager -u -bu -l" run overnight
21:59.42``Erikain't in no rush these days
21:59.47RalithI've been knocking back and forth between sourcebased and binbased systems for a while
22:00.24Ralithback on the VC subject, I have to say, it's *really* nice to be able to do local commits; helps keep commits small and focused on single logical changes, and helps keep the main repo fully functional (i.e. no half-implemented features)
22:01.00``Erikhm, do it in the upstream VCS, mebbe one of your commits will be you fighting something that someone has an easy answer for
22:01.15Ralithhuh?
22:01.24``Erikif it's broken, wrap the broken stuff in #if 0, if it's a big breakage, make a branch
22:01.31Ralithsure, that works
22:01.34Ralithbut it's a bit ugly
22:01.53``Erikif you commit something small cuz you're struggling with a lame issue and brlcad or drossberg or I say "well, dur, just do this", that might save you many many many hours
22:02.09Ralithcentralized versioning encourages making commits relatively large.
22:02.27``Erikand my tire iron encourages keeping them small and frequent
22:02.28``ErikO:-)
22:02.30Ralithhehe
22:03.29Ralithso how closely are students expected to stick to their timeline?
22:03.50RalithI need to write one up, but I really am not sure how much time to allocate to any given milestone.
22:03.52``Erikstudents are expected to communicate with their mentors
22:04.55tofuon the contrary, to be *effective*, centralized requires small succinct commits
22:05.05``Eriktimelines change, that's known, *shrug* can't do anything about it, it's reality. but it's a big growing point in a developers growth to be able to admit the change happens and work around it, opposed to pretending it's a failure and trying to hiding it
22:05.13tofuat best a different work breakdown structure, so that you can work on small pieces that are all fully functional
22:05.36``Eriktofu: to be effective, yes, but some people don't want to present code until it's "perfect" :(
22:05.39tofuthere's nothing inherint to the system that encourages larger commits other than really bad practice
22:05.41Ralithtofu: I'm not sure that's always feasible.
22:05.55Raliththough I guess I really lack the experience to argue this very effectively
22:06.05``Erikdistributed VCS allows people to go hide in a corner and pretend they're good citizens
22:06.22tofuRalith: i've heard that claim many a time over, but not once has it actually been shown to be true -- it's folks not wanting to change their work breakdown
22:06.39Ralithfine, fine
22:07.13FAMULUS``Erik: I would argue that git/github lowers the barrier to entry for contribution
22:07.56FAMULUS``Erik: just fork the repo and off you go
22:08.06``ErikI'd argue that dvcs tends to contribute to bad behavior wrt FOSS citizenship
22:08.09tofuRalith: and bot_dump isn't fast/slow -- it just dumps the data for a triangle mesh to the prescribed format
22:08.12``Erikexactly! "fork the repo" is bad
22:08.29FAMULUS``Erik: I say it's good!
22:08.35tofuit doesn't actually tessellation, you need a BoT to start with
22:08.40Ralithtofu: yeah, I misunderstood; thought you were proposing it as an unchecked equivalent to g-stl
22:08.41``Erikyou disassociate from the community when you do that
22:08.57``Erikand that's the single thing that makes foss awesome, the community... you're throwing away the #1 advantage
22:09.22FAMULUS``Erik: I completely disagree. If someone does some hotness it wll get merged
22:09.48FAMULUS``Erik: and even before that, you can see someone is ahead of the main repo (via the graph)
22:10.00FAMULUS``Erik: and sometimes it's the probem you had
22:10.08``ErikI'm learning a new framework in a new language with a new editor and everything... I ask really stupid questions, frequently. I share what I'm doing often. The framework authors and gurus are updating the framework frequently, and their documentation... because of my stupidness :) it's good!
22:11.00``Erikthe gurus doing hotness will know how to behave with svn, the 'average' new contributor will greatly benefit and will benefit the community by making their education public
22:11.01``Erik:)
22:12.46tofuFAMULUS: this argument of centralized over distributed is a very old and tired debate, frankly -- and not one that hasn't been considered and discussed many times over
22:13.02FAMULUStofu: agreed. I don't really care
22:13.03tofuthere are counter arguments and downsides to distributed
22:13.16tofujust as there are for centralized
22:14.24tofucode dumps are generally very unhealthy for a codebase, no matter how 'hotness' a feature is
22:15.02tofuespecially if it's development hasn't been communicated throughout development, it is very often a foreign mismatched codebase with a near 1 bus factor
22:16.01tofucommunication is key, and you can have healthy/unhealthy communication regardless of being distributed or centralized, with the only difference being that distributed doesn't require it and centralized exposes earlier
22:16.47FAMULUStofu: how do I invoke dot_dump?
22:16.52FAMULUSbot_dump
22:16.54tofuwhen the dev team is small, i.e. less than 50 or so active committers, the hierarchical approach that distributed allows isn't really gained
22:17.28tofuare you asking and answering your own question?
22:17.34tofuah, dot
22:17.42tofuthat's the answer, bot_dump
22:18.00FAMULUSok
22:18.00tofuadded in 7.14.2
22:18.03FAMULUSah ok
22:18.15tofutell me you at least tried before asking how you run "bot_dump" :)
22:18.17FAMULUSso for os x, I'll have to compile to get that version?
22:18.50tofuyes, there hasn't been a binary os x release in a while
22:19.02FAMULUStofu: ok, so thats my next move
22:24.11*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
22:27.11*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-155.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
22:30.41``Erikdoh, hah, karel keeps using _sushi_, for some reason, I got a mental crosswire on handle vs person
23:07.51Ralithmm, sushi
23:23.29*** join/#brlcad FAMULUS (n=mark@ool-ad028f27.dyn.optonline.net)
23:25.30yukonbobreads scrollback
23:26.09madantis a strict non-fish-arian
23:29.04Ralithenjoys some easter chocolate as he works on his timeline
23:29.35``Erikdrinks some sunday vodka and watches tv
23:36.42madantjust had some water :| , breakfast in 2.5 hours
23:50.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1383 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Added first draft of timeline for OpenGL GUI SoC proposal
23:51.11Ralithheh, CIA dropped the notification before I managed to load the page.
23:55.17brlcad:)
23:59.57*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-155.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090413

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090413

00:09.58FAMULUSso i seemed like I sucessfully compiled truck for OS X, but when I run mged I get Bus error
00:10.05FAMULUStrunk^
00:10.47brlcadFAMULUS: off of an svn checkout?
00:10.52FAMULUSyes
00:10.55``Erikbus error is insanely bad, worse than a segfault, can you provide backtrace?
00:10.56starseekerdreeves: sorry, off to Easter stuff
00:10.57brlcadwhat was your configure summary?
00:11.01FAMULUSsvn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
00:11.17brlcadspecifically, is ogl enabled or disabled?
00:11.22brlcadwhat was your configure line?
00:11.44FAMULUS...
00:11.56FAMULUS./configure
00:11.59starseekerdreeves: Mostly curious about status - I had pulled some of the code with the intent to start looking at it, but if you're ahead of me (and it sounds like you are if you're identifying differences in opennurbs vs. utah trimming) I was going to ask if there was anything I can do to help
00:12.04brlcadok
00:12.08``Erikheh, wow, say "bus fault" and everyone comes to life :D
00:12.41brlcadFAMULUS: grep "OpenGL support" config.log
00:12.46FAMULUSk
00:13.00FAMULUSconfigure:47790: result: OpenGL support (optional).............: no
00:13.10brlcadstarseeker: that's the point of frequent commits -- go for it ;)
00:13.20brlcadit doesn't exist if it's not committed
00:13.36brlcadslow committers get to deal with the conflicts/mergine woes ;)
00:13.42brlcadFAMULUS: hrmph
00:14.05starseekerbrlcad:  no, I mean I was going to see if there was a specific conceptual question I can look into - I don't have any new code myself (yet)
00:14.08brlcadFAMULUS: you did an install?
00:14.37FAMULUSyes
00:14.57FAMULUSsudo make install
00:15.04FAMULUSmged command responds
00:15.09starseekerwants to do whatever he can to keep the nurbs progress going, without duplicating work if possible :-)
00:15.13FAMULUSbut then Bus Error
00:15.34FAMULUSShould I svn from a tag, as opposed to trunk?
00:15.43``Erikyou should be on trunk
00:16.03brlcadFAMULUS: what about "mged -c" does that segfault too?
00:17.00FAMULUSlets see
00:18.09FAMULUSbrlcad: that seems to work acctually
00:18.18FAMULUSCreating region id=1000, air=0, GIFTmaterial=1, los=100
00:18.46brlcadoh, interesting -- you'd scripted without -c ?
00:19.28FAMULUSmy ruby scripts use -c
00:19.37FAMULUSthat's what I'm running now
00:19.44brlcadokay
00:19.55FAMULUSbut just launching mged my_db.g
00:19.56FAMULUSfails
00:20.21brlcadso try running mged -c, attach "nu" default, then run "gui"
00:20.58FAMULUSare the commas line seperators?
00:21.08FAMULUSmged -c
00:21.12FAMULUSattach "nu" default
00:21.23brlcadwhen you run mged -c, it asks you
00:21.27FAMULUSok
00:21.29FAMULUScoming up
00:22.02FAMULUSok
00:22.05FAMULUSwhen I run gui
00:22.07FAMULUSBus Error
00:22.40brlcadtry again but instead with "gdb --args mged -c"
00:22.50brlcad"run" to start it off
00:23.24FAMULUSProgram received signal EXC_BAD_ACCESS, Could not access memory.
00:23.25FAMULUSReason: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE at address: 0x0000005c
00:23.25FAMULUS0x0012fa51 in X_open_dm (interp=0x1808c08, argc=6, argv=0xbfffb4a4) at dm-X.c:343
00:23.26FAMULUS343dmp->dm_width =
00:25.22``Eriknow that's interesting
00:25.32``Erikbut "print dmp" is ok?
00:25.50``Erikdoes it fill dm_width ok?
00:25.57FAMULUS``Erik: don't know about print dmp
00:26.54brlcadFAMULUS: 10.5 ?
00:26.59``Erik"print" is a gdb command
00:27.03FAMULUSlatest and greatest
00:27.06brlcadare you up-to-date?
00:27.29FAMULUS(gdb) print dmp
00:27.29FAMULUS$1 = (struct dm *) 0xf19960
00:28.03``Erikprint *dmp ?
00:28.14dreevesstarseeker I will status you when I get done today
00:28.31``Erikyou can explore quite a bit with gdb, if it notes the struct then you have a good debuggable binary
00:28.58FAMULUShttp://pastie.org/444641
00:29.38FAMULUSI'm doublechecking updates, my os is current, but I just installed dev tools, may be an update for that
00:30.22FAMULUSsoftware update says I'm current
00:30.35``Erikdm_width seems to be set to 0, whcih is wrong, but I don't undersatnd why you'd get a fault on it
00:31.10``Eriktry, uh, -F/dev/X
00:31.13``Erik?
00:32.16FAMULUSUndefined command: "-F".  Try "help".
00:32.25FAMULUSwhere?
00:33.27*** join/#brlcad madant (n=d@117.196.142.36)
00:36.21``Erikrt -F/dev/Xl soemfile.g toplevel
00:40.14FAMULUShttp://pastie.org/444651
00:43.55``Eriklooks like ya didn't give a valid toplvevel solid
00:44.40FAMULUSone sec
00:44.59FAMULUSok
00:45.05FAMULUSgot it
00:45.14FAMULUStoplevel is a variable
00:45.21FAMULUSthat produces a picture
00:47.09brlcad"mged -c file.g tops" will list your top level objects
00:49.07FAMULUSyup
00:49.11FAMULUSI got a render
00:49.51brlcadso it's not the X11 framebuffer, something specific to X11 display managers
00:50.38Ralithhmm.
00:50.53Ralithbrlcad: it's trivial to determine whether a given point is inside or outside a given region, right?
00:51.38brlcadRalith: sure, shoot a ray, look at that point
00:52.14Ralithso it'd be pretty easy to generate a voxel representation of a given volume?
00:52.32brlcadoh sure
00:52.58brlcadthe g_qa code already does this effectively as to several of the 'rt*' tools
00:53.04brlcadjust not in a clean/simple library form
00:53.13Ralithand then you could tesselate that for an approximate solid mesh.
00:53.26brlcadone of the refactoring todos is to turn gqa's code into a sampling routine
00:53.36Ralithyou'd lose detail on hard edges, but it'd work.
00:53.44brlcadyep, do some dulaney triangulation, whatever
00:54.15Ralithand I suspect high resolutions might actually not be all that expensive
00:54.35brlcadthat's some basic csg-to-brep approaches worked out in the 80's that do exactly that, and are even mildly interesting iff you do adaptive sampling
00:54.48Ralithneat!
00:55.11brlcadwithout adaptive sampling, it generates horrible tessellations or massively refined meshes
00:58.20brlcadRalith: if you're really interested in that -- there's a really good paper from UNC recently ala 2007/2008 that is a big improvement
00:59.30RalithI've got more immediate concerns, and I get the impression the brep stuff will be providing nice tesselation soon enough anyway; was just curious
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01:02.20brlcadyeah, the brep work is a non-approximation approach
01:02.31brlcadshould be faithful
01:03.08Ralithshame it's not ready yet
01:03.16Ralithwould have loved to put "Shaded rendering of geometry" on his milestones.
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01:31.06starseekerdreeves: cool, thanks! :-)
01:51.57hippieindamakin8Ralith, i put in a proposal for that
01:52.08Ralithfor what?
01:52.22hippieindamakin8brep evaluation
01:52.32Ralithah.
01:52.36Ralithcool
01:52.51Ralithhere's to hoping it happens
01:54.10hippieindamakin8Ralith, :)
01:54.33Raliththat's one of the major barriers to a truly contemporary modeler imo
02:10.39Ralithbrlcad: let me know if you have any thoughts on my milestones/timeline
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05:48.57dreevesstarseeker so here is the deal there is no similarities between really between how the utah code represents trims and opennurbs represents.  Utah's code is very basic it just basically stores a polyline that represents the trim whereas opennurbs can be several shapes but that isn't really the part I'm struggling with.  The documentation on opennurbs is limited i.e. how does the type seam vs mated vs etc.. affect the seam and the iso setting affect it.  I
05:48.57dreevesf you can figure that out.  So pretty much I think the utah will be fairly useless because they aren't close.  
05:51.59dreevesJust to get you going if you want to work on it.  you may already know this but the 2d curves are in parameter space so the idea would be to trim in parameter space much simpler problem
05:52.46dreevesSo I'm still working on it but if you find anything out let me know.  Right now I am just approximating the trim curve with a polyline for the time being
07:20.55dreevesstarseeker ok looks like I'm having some success here
07:21.03dreevesyahoo
07:21.11dreevesstill some issues here
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08:28.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03ddreeves70 * r34197 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: This is code that implements a crude form of the triming it causing some problems but I just want to update everyone where I'm at on trimming
08:30.56dreevesstarseeker you can also focus on the line nurbs curve intersection code.  The numintersections function in ON_nurbscurve isn't working
08:55.35madanthmmmm, make[2]: Entering directory `/home/d/wrk/brlcad/src/shapes' make[2]: *** No rule to make target `wire.1', needed by `all-am'.  Stop.
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11:40.14madantmafm, is the build ok ?
11:40.48mafmhi
11:40.55mafmmadant: the build?
11:45.22starseekerdreeves: excellent, thank you :-)
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11:52.50madanti am getting build error in src/shapes..
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12:10.09starseekermadant: what error?
12:10.40madant<PROTECTED>
12:11.07starseekeryou've got an old makefile
12:11.59madantyeah thought so.. cleaning up now :)
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12:23.02``Erikhttp://langpop.com/
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12:41.44brlcadinteresting article at the top of that page
12:46.36``Erikthe approach and notion seemed interesting, the results *shrug* meh. Was kinda surprised that java and c++ were behind C, and how low c++ sat, but *shrug* meh :)
12:48.16``Erikis rdo, gonna go across the street and check up on his car today :/
12:48.31``Erikya wiring up the suns today?
12:49.40``Erikthink your ircop friend would be willing to split her logs up daily so'z we aren't moving 11 gigs of log for the great '09 bz migration?
12:50.19``Erik(would probably help your home dumps, too)
12:51.33``Eriktries not to notice, but big things tend to jump to fg :(
12:54.51brlcadyeah
12:55.27brlcadI rotated some of them on saturday, still need to hit up the big one though
12:55.33brlcadbig ones
12:59.09``Erik<-- unwilling to muck with those, wouldn't feel right doing anything more than saying "hey, uh, can't help but notice, you're causing some issues in this operation, can you help us?"
12:59.19``Erikdamn my ethics
13:00.55``ErikI'm keeping the new machine up to date system wise, and doing the occasional rsync... itching to see the migration happen so I can try to get the apache stuff sorted out for my new use. let me know what more I can do to help *shrug*
13:02.08``Eriklike the cylons, I have a plan. And the low hanging fruit is all depending on the migration happening :D
13:03.01``Erik(if irssi lacks the ability to do time sensitive log file selection, I will fucking add it)
13:12.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34198 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/mirror.c: remove dead code, clean up indentation
13:15.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34199 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/mirror.c: ws
13:17.05``Erikwonders how much of that dead code was his
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13:38.10brlcadpnone
13:38.36``Erikheh
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14:35.20dreevesstartseeker have you had a chance to look at it?
14:37.32dreevesstarseeker in the nurbs_test.g the nurbs_cyl.r is a good test case of the trimming trimming appears to be working somewhat but I'm getting surface acne
14:40.13starseekerdreeves: just getting at it now
14:40.39starseekerdreeves: IIRC, the opennurbs library deliberately doesn't provide the intersection code for a line + nurbs
14:42.23starseekeryeah, I ran the tests with your update
14:42.38starseekergetting severe acne on all of them
14:43.05dreevesThat is the trimming if you turn off the trimming the acne will go away
14:43.37dreevesI'm not 100% sure right now what is causing that...
14:44.07dreevesespecially on the end cap
15:04.29dreevesbtw yeah they don't provide one and the one we have added isn't working numintersections method is failing I believe when it is breaking down into bezier curves  Although I'm not convinced that is the problem
15:05.45dreeveswell anyways I'm headed out for awhile
15:07.54CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34200 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/mirror.c: remove stray 1
15:10.20mafm_madant: sorry, had to run outside. I haven't build the project for a while, so can't help :)
15:11.40typ0what is the best documentation resource to learn about IGES converter status ?
15:11.50typ0commit logs ?
15:11.56typ0i already checked the bug-tracker
15:13.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34201 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (Makefile.am primitives/table.c table.c): move table.c into the primitives directory as first step towards refactoring the API in order to hide the table itself. let primitives contain logic that is solid-specific
15:15.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34202 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (Makefile.am mirror.c primitives/mirror.c): move rt_mirror() up into primitives as well since it's one of the first table calls
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15:16.35brlcadtyp0: probably reading the source code and/or asking here -- there's not a lot of documentation
15:17.07brlcadcommit logs might be helpful, but seeing as that's an older converter from pre-open-source days, it may be somewhat thin on details
15:17.21brlcadshould read the two manual pages for it
15:20.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34203 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/ (tankwizard/TankWizard.tcl tirewizard/TireWizard.tcl): Minor mod related to ripping out BLT.
15:28.56madantmafm, no problem, just needed a bit of cleaning of my files
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15:36.21brlcadhi Elena
15:39.59madantbrlcad, do we (mafm, pacman87, me etc. ) who have commit access need to submit a patch ?
15:40.20madantand seems like Elena doesn't like you :D
15:43.12typ0cool thanks
15:45.29*** join/#brlcad Elena (n=ebautu@89.136.118.141)
15:47.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34204 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/sysv.h src/libsysv/bcmp.c): adjust bcmp signature to match posix using void pointers and size_t
15:50.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34205 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/sysv.h src/libsysv/memset.c): do the same to memset, use void and size_t to match standard
15:51.49brlcadmadant: the purpose of the patch is primarily to make sure students are working with the code, on their way towards being integrated with the community, and working towards commit access
15:52.45brlcadso if you're doing and have all three of those already, then you probably have your answer
15:52.46madantk, so if i continue the work with MathGrammar and foundations of libged integration that works too ?
15:53.09madantoh and brlcad, i had a crappy knee a couple of days ago
15:53.26brlcadcrappy knee?
15:53.43madantyeah knee pain after running around 9 kms.. :)
15:53.46brlcadand yes, working with mathgrammar and libged would be perfect
15:53.59madantreminded me of your knee comment regarding reaching college level speeds
15:54.04brlcadI get crappy knee after much less than 9kms these days :)
15:54.27Elenahello
15:54.40brlcadhowdy Elena
15:54.47madantanyways it disappeared in a couple of days.. i have never really understood how the knee gets "hurt" and gets back on track.
15:55.45brlcadmadant: torn ligaments that heal
15:55.45Elenahow are you?
15:55.45brlcadpeachy, you?
15:55.45Elenafine
15:56.33brlcadnice to see that you made it onto irc finally :)
15:56.45Elena:)
15:57.38dreevesstarseeker fyi just for kicks and grins I only looked at the endcaps for the cylinder and I just special case treated the trims like circles it worked perfectly that is just a simple distance check (I just happen to know those trims are circles) so maybe my approx. is causing more problems than I realized
16:03.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Cyl special trim.png]]": Don't get excited this is very special case trimming.
16:04.38CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34206 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): remove bcmp() from libsysv (which was added for windows compatibility) as there is a c89 equivalent (that should be available on windows). just use memcmp() instead.
16:04.40brlcadgets excited
16:05.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1385 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */
16:05.22brlcadpurdy
16:06.54dreevesyeah don't get excited that is a very special case trim
16:07.22dreevesI just wanted to prove to myself it wasn't something else goofy going it wasn't
16:07.52dreevesit is my line nurbs curve intersection isn't working very well
16:09.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34207 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/ (2 files in 2 dirs): remove bcmp.c from windows build files
16:09.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34208 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libsysv/CMakeLists.txt: remove bcmp.c, no longer needed/included
16:10.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34209 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/g_diff.c: no longer need sysv.h
16:10.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34210 10/brlcad/trunk/src/canon/canonlib.c: last usage of bcmp(), converted to memcmp().
16:13.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34211 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: update rtwizard bug items (now works with perspective, doesn't seem to hang with latest, and confirmed line overlay problem)
16:18.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34212 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/ (. include/ misc/): ignore configure-generated files
16:20.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34213 10/brlcad/trunk/src/shapes/: ignore coil binary
16:24.34brlcadtyp0: http://brlcad.org/OLD/reports/arl-tr-315/index.html
16:24.40brlcadalmost forgot about that report
16:24.53brlcadnotes the strong need for more organized docs on the website
16:46.39typ0sweet
16:46.42typ0cheers
17:19.33brlcadhmm
17:19.52brlcadhmm2
17:34.11brlcadbegins a rotatable logfile configuration for sportchick
17:39.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34214 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ (32 files in 4 dirs):
17:39.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: Removed the basic, intermediate and advanced modes. Removed the canvas menus,
17:39.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: hierarchy label, attributes label and the collapse/expand buttons. Moved the
17:39.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: view/edit toolbar items to the primary toolbar. Turned off tearoff menus.
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17:50.46dreeves2starseeker I am not at my computer that I'm connected to irc on so if you have written anything I can't see it
17:51.32dreeves2but anyway I have thought of a much better way to evaulate the point in the curve that won't require us to modify opennurbs I'm going to work on that when I get a chance later today
17:53.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34215 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob made a slew of major gui changes to archer including the removal of the distinct experience levels.
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18:17.29brlcadthinks fbsd is fs-confused
18:17.41``Erik?
18:17.57brlcadit is spewing filesystem full messages
18:17.59``Erikold old OLD ufs is very slow about updating free lists
18:18.08brlcadvarious loggers
18:18.18brlcadhttpd, irssi, user logging
18:18.21``Erikbut youd' have to be fucktarded enough to run an ancient version to see that, like 5 series
18:18.22``Erik:D
18:25.16brlcadstill, pretty severe bug
18:25.20brlcadprobably needs an fsck
18:25.30brlcadcan that be run safely while live?
18:25.49``Erikuhmmmmm, I don't recall if the snapfs was there on 5.2.1 :(
18:26.25brlcadsomething is seriously hosed with 1.5GB free and it vomiting filesystem full messages
18:26.53``Erikusually it just took a few minutes to put everything into the free list
18:27.08``Erikyeah, you have the snapfs man pages
18:27.14brlcadthere's been 1.5GB free for days
18:27.35``Erikdf is reading free mem
18:27.43``Eriksmoething must be borked up
18:29.55brlcadbasically running bzip2 on all her old log files one at a time -- each new file seems to generate a dozen or more full messages
18:30.05brlcadyet bzip2 completes successfully
18:30.17brlcadand even as more space is freed up, still spews
18:30.45brlcadwell, I'll let this run spewing for a few hours
18:31.00AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: I answered your comments at Student Proposal
18:31.02brlcadshould free up about 4GB
18:31.04``Erikyeah, ya got free space, shouldn't be throwing those alerts
18:31.20brlcadand make syncing better down the road
18:31.25brlcad(more importantly)
18:31.32brlcadfor post migration woes
18:32.07``Erikheh, pine just bitched at me on that machine
18:34.18``ErikI d'no, it shouldn't be bitching about that. mebbe it was a bug in that version, 5.2.1 was a quick 'fix some other bugs' release, the ONLY release I've ever seen wih the third number
18:34.38``Erikis mostly using 7.2
18:35.01brlcadI can't find hint of it on-line yet though
18:35.15brlcadwould have thought plenty of others would have filled up a disk if it was a simple bug
18:37.13``Erik<-- doesn't know, it may require an fsck to regenerate the free block list :(
18:37.49brlcadheh, up to 1.7 free and still bitching :)
18:38.10brlcadseems to be slightly less though
18:38.46starseekerdreeves2: cool!
18:44.46``Erikargues for rapid migration instead of fixing the old stuff O.o
19:01.29dreeves2starseeker did you see the image of the cylinder I uploaded.  Basically Ignored all trims except for the end cap trims and then I used a circle to represent the trims that obviously worked great but I think this idea I have should work
19:01.44starseekeryes
19:01.55starseekerhow do  you plan to make it general?
19:27.33dreeves2look at closest point to the intersection point then calculate a direction vector from that point to the intersection point then compare the normal at that point and the direction vector if they are pointing the same direction then the point is outside the curve this makes a couple of assumptions but conceptally that is how it would work
19:31.31dreeves2Does that make since?
19:31.55starseekeryou mean the closest point on the trimming loop?
19:32.00dreeves2yes
19:32.30dreeves2This is a methon on ON_Curve that will give you that
19:33.16starseekerhmm.  
19:33.54starseekerwould need to ask Ed about that one
19:33.58dreeves2obviously we will have to deal some special cases and check orientation
19:34.09dreeves2of the loop
19:34.11starseekernods
19:35.41dreeves2Yeah I tried to give Ed a call to see what he thought but I couldn't get him on the phone and I have meetings I had to join.  If you get his feedback I would like to hear what he had to say
19:35.59``Erikeh?
19:36.41starseekerif you like I can ask him when a good time to call would be - I don't want to garble it in translation and he will have questions
19:37.15``Eriked is effin' brilliant, we kinda try to protect him... how the fuck do you think you have a direct line to him?
19:38.16dreeves2what?
19:38.27starseeker``Erik: he's talked to Ed before
19:39.04``Erikaight *shrug* ed is a valuable resource, not one to be squandered
19:41.01``Erik<-- a little protective :)
19:41.30dreeves2I thought brep was #1 priority how is asking him a question about it squandering him?
19:41.36starseekerit isn't
19:42.06``ErikI'm being reactionary... if it's a good brep question, then it's all good
19:42.27starseekerdreeves2: if I understand correctly, you're proposing to use the normal ON the trimming curve?
19:43.19starseekerisn't quite seeing it...
19:43.22dreeves2yes
19:43.25``ErikI kinda joined in half through a discussion, saw a request for a limited resource, so'z I threw the 'zomfg wtff' card down, I apologize :)
19:44.42starseekerdreeves2: taking a flat plane as an example, how would the normal on the trimming curve be any different from the normal at any possible intersection point (in or out of the trimming curve?)
19:45.10dreeves2hang on having to think about something here
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19:56.00dreeves2ok at any point on the curve we should be able to calculate a normal it will be in the plane of the curve.
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20:22.26dreeves2It would be the normal at the point returned from the closest point
20:22.48dreeves2Are you following now?
20:42.17dreeves2``Erik just for my clarification who is the "we" you were referring to in the statement "we kinda try to protect him"?
20:43.18``Erikcore dev team, brlcad and ed are valuable resource, I try to defend them
20:45.48louipc``Erik: are you squanderable? :P
20:46.02``Eriksure
20:46.11louipchaha kidding
20:46.38dreeves2How did that become your responsiblity? :)
20:46.53``Erikas far as brlcad development goes, I'll throw my arse under the bus
20:47.01louipche's the front-line
20:48.32``ErikI have 99% of the answers, I think the folk who have the other 1%... their time is more valuabe than mine, so I'll step up
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21:04.51dreeves2the cgi:irc stuff sucks but I have to deal with here because of the firewall stuff here
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21:30.50brlcadlooks like there are a variety of fs errors
21:30.52brlcadhttp://paste.bzflag.bz/m5bb418a3
21:41.26brlcadwow, and it gets a lot worse
21:43.38brlcadtoo much to even copy paste.. looks like thousands of issues
21:44.07brlcadthat certainly bumps up the migration priority even more
21:44.23brlcadthis isn't fixable without a shutdown
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21:51.25starseekerhope I didn't cause any trouble - had to do a quick svn checkout in tmp
21:51.33starseekerI erased it pronto
21:55.17brlcaddifferent filesystem
21:55.45brlcadthe /usr partition is the one with problems
21:55.49starseekerthe wildcat-cad svn checkout started working, wanted to make sure to grab a copy
21:55.50starseekerah
21:56.16louipcouch
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22:07.06Ralithwow, that openbook screenshot looks nice!
22:09.22Ralithwhat allows the edges to be drawn so selectively?
22:09.45starseekerto be honest, I'm surprised it worked that well
22:10.08brlcad``Erik: are you willing to be listed as a mentor for anyone?
22:10.23brlcadif so, you should mark the "I'm willing" checkbox
22:10.43brlcadif not, have to evaluate who will be mentoring then and maybe need to drop a slot
22:16.14``ErikI can, not what I envisioned myself as doing this rotation, though
22:18.56brlcadwhat did you envison yourself doing? :)
22:19.07jonoredbrlcad: There is a GSoC proposal submitted from me for boolean evaluation of CSGs with the same name (Jonathan Gibbons, nick jonored), but I'm finding that I'm too swamped by a very harsh semester both academically and not, and haven't been able to properly complete the expected pre-acceptance work and really address robustness issues with what I was thinking for an approach. Hopefully I can try properly next year :)
22:20.22brlcadjonored: okay, letting us know is really very much appreciated
22:21.04brlcadjonored: maybe you can get involved throughout the year before gsoc next year
22:21.29brlcada sure-fire way to help get selected is to already be involved :)
22:22.05jonoredI've got a summer that I'm not taking classes over to have a break from coursework and academic projects to do some code :)
22:25.36brlcadsounds like a fun summer :)
22:27.14hippieindamakin8brlcad, so wat do you say about the robustness ?
22:27.38hippieindamakin8w.r.t what we have discussed alongside the application
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23:06.58poolioallo all
23:14.47brlcadhowdy
23:17.06*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
23:19.05Ralithhey jonored!
23:19.06Ralithhow goes
23:24.22jonoredRalith: Not great, but that's to do with said terrible semester.
23:24.37pooliobrlcad: so how many of the slots are you taking? :)
23:29.57Ralithjonored: over soon, at least?
23:34.47jonoredOver soon. Hopefully ending with a degree, if not the two that I was aiming for.
23:49.47brlcadpoolio: depends on how many of the existing mentors step up and mark that they're willing to mentor a given application
23:56.27typ0does anyone know a place where i can get the IGES 5.2 standard full document ?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090414

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090414

00:21.15brlcadhippieindamakin8: what do you mean?
00:22.05brlcadtyp0: I could probably put in a request to obtain it through ARL if it comes to it, but I'd imagine that there are at least some resources on-line
00:22.44typ0yeah
00:22.54typ0i've been tracking them down
00:23.14brlcadhippieindamakin8: the fact that the final decision lies here goes without saying :)  it's more "why do you want to do it that way" versus some other way
00:23.14typ0and all i got were general descriptions of what changed between 5.2 and 5.1
00:23.49typ0but no full document of either version so i can understand better what is the change involved
00:23.53brlcadit'll all get taken into consideration when the final reviews and rankings go in, and patch submissions are evaluated
00:25.03brlcadtyp0: er, but 5.3 is linked on the wikipedia page no?
00:25.18typ0yes
00:25.26typ0but since we are at 5.1 level support
00:25.37typ0i will need to first implement the 5.2 changes right ?
00:26.15typ0my plan was getting 5.1/5.2 full documents
00:26.20typ0and with the help of the changes list
00:26.55typ0check which area changed, how it changed, and read the appropriate code
00:31.30brlcaddoesn't matter so much to know what is/isn't supported through a given change as just supporting everything new
00:31.39brlcadif anything, you have an option for 5.1 and another for 5.3
00:31.57brlcadbut most of the point updates have been incremental additions
00:32.05brlcadnot really removing things that we might be exporting
00:34.47hippieindamakin8brlcad : when you said "necessary ", i would rather justify that point as better accuracy ==> better modelling at the cost of computation to some extent.
00:36.07brlcadit's not to some extent
00:36.11brlcadit's to a massive extent
00:36.23brlcadthat's why it needs more articulate justification
00:37.02brlcadotherwise most of our apps would simply just use fixed/infinite precision math all the time instead of floating point
00:37.04typ0cool thanks
00:37.22brlcadthe reality is that it's often very impractical and makes some things practically impossible
00:38.31brlcadif it's going to take several hours to evaluate a single BREP/BREP CSG boolean, that's not very useful or practical no matter how accurate or robust it is, for example
00:38.55brlcadan extreme example of course, but not outside of what is possible with that approach
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00:48.37hippieindamakin8brlcad, :P
00:50.29hippieindamakin8brlcad, as a matter of fact i plan on implementing accurate and floating pt. math and benchmark them and go with the floating point calculations first
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01:35.07hippieindamakin8i submitted a routine which isnt exactly a patch but it is from the list of todo s .
01:36.59brlcadhippieindamakin8: the one you were going to finish by sunday? :)
01:37.16hippieindamakin8brlcad, yeah
01:37.18hippieindamakin8:|
01:38.03hippieindamakin8brlcad, too much of academic load :| (but the best part is i ll get done with the exams by next weekend)
01:38.10brlcadunderstandable :)
01:38.28hippieindamakin87 full credit courses :P
01:38.55brlcaddecent load
01:40.23Axman67? what're you doing man :|
01:40.34Axman6people who do 5 here are crazy
01:42.03hippieindamakin8Axman6, , had to ,to graduate this may considering i flunked a couple of courses last year because of my idiocracy.(and low attendance) the classes were at 8am and 9  
01:42.17Axman6ew
01:42.18hippieindamakin8*considering that
01:42.34Axman610's my earliest start this semester
01:42.52hippieindamakin8working on a presentation rt now . have one in 12 hrs.
01:42.59hippieindamakin8rather term paper
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01:47.07brlcadhippieindamakin8: when does your semester start?
01:47.29brlcadsounds like you should take a summer class to ease the load
01:47.30hippieindamakin8spring in december last week and fall in the last week of july
01:48.14hippieindamakin8brlcad, naah i should be done in this semester the way has been going so far
01:50.29Axman6assumes he's taking all arts courses, so the work load isn't that bad at all :P
01:51.09hippieindamakin8hehe Axman6 i am out of all the humanities ,btw all my humanities have been arts => a minor in arts
01:51.46hippieindamakin8Axman6, as open electives i took some sophomore courses of mathematics to ease up load
01:52.51hippieindamakin8and some easier courses like robot dynamics , optimization , energy systems. the only course i fear rt now is computational geometry
01:57.06AlexandreGuedeshi
01:57.23AlexandreGuedesto fix it "g-vrml ignores bots that are created with dxf-g"
01:57.36AlexandreGuedescan someone help me ?
02:04.49dreevesstarseeker that approach seemed to work for the cylinder
02:05.30dreevesbrlcad I got the cylinder rt the way it is in the image without the special case trim
02:07.56brlcadAlexandreGuedes: you have to be much more specific
02:08.08brlcaddreeves: awesome
02:08.16brlcadwhat'd it take?
02:12.14AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: the problem would be in g-vrml
02:12.29starseekerdreeves: cccoooolll!
02:12.37starseekerwhat does it do with the tube?
02:13.55AlexandreGuedes<PROTECTED>
02:15.53brlcadAlexandreGuedes: "a familiar strategy"?  learn the basics of using both those tools, reproduce the problem, understand the problem, review the code, walk through suspect routines with a debugger, fix the problem
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02:16.51AlexandreGuedesmaybe this function bot2vrml in g-vrml
02:18.23dreevesI have tried the tube let me clean up a little then I will tackle the other geometries
02:18.32dreevess/have/have not
02:19.58starseekerawesome :-)
02:20.12starseekerdoes ritual geek bow
02:20.37dreevesit is nice to finally see it trim without hacks!!
02:21.02dreevesreturns geek bow
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02:22.42AlexandreGuedesI am reproducing the error here
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02:23.20dreevesnow the next big challenge is to figure out to interrupt the other attributes of the various trims
02:23.45starseekerinterrupt?
02:25.42brlcadAlexandreGuedes: there are different types of bots -- some 'solid' some 'shells' and a few others -- find out which ones each exports/imports and how the routines work with those types
02:27.47AlexandreGuedesok I'm doing some test
02:35.32dreevess/interrupt/interpret/
02:35.41dreevesI can't spell
03:04.23dreevesstarseeker the tube isn't working yet because I'm dealing with inner loops any different than outer loops all the cylinder's loops are outer basically inner loops you trim the opposite what you trim with inner loops
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03:06.59cad02any mentors here
03:09.36cad02is there Sir Christopher Sen Morrison
03:10.23*** join/#brlcad cad02 (n=c1a4853d@bz.bzflag.bz)
03:11.36cad02any mentors for brl-cad please
03:13.46Ralithcad02: be patient.
03:13.57Raliththis is not, as they say, a call center.
03:16.07cad02so what shoud i do for that,i want to talk to brl-cad mentor,its urgent please
03:17.00louipccad02: you may want to send an email to the brlcad-devel mailing list
03:22.22brlcad~ask
03:22.23ibotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
03:22.32brlcadbah
03:23.40brlcadhighly suspects it's an applicant that was recently reprimanded
03:41.53deeeffachei never knew there was a british knight on the dev team
03:42.24brlcadheh
03:44.46pooliodeeeffache: AHAHA, I was just typing in "Apparently you've been knighted, brlcad" but you beat me to it
03:53.12PrezKennedybrlcad, im still stuffed from Fogo de Chao
03:59.58brlcadPrezKennedy: heh
04:00.30brlcadis sure there is still some meat in his belly from there
04:01.08starseekerwe'll have to get brlcad a coat of arms that uses mossworld
04:01.54brlcadalready has a 'Morrison' coat of arms, Scottish heritage ftw
04:02.54starseekercool!
04:09.32poolioawesome.
04:14.06typ0sorry to interrupt...
04:14.30typ0are there any issues with IGES 5.1 left to solve ?
04:21.24brlcadtyp0: nothing specific comes to mind, but wouldn't really know without having a slew of iges 5.1 files to test out
04:25.18bjorkintoshwoohoo! i'm gonna see sonny rollins
04:38.55typ0yeah
04:39.20typ0they have a lot of files to test in www.iges5x.org
04:39.32typ0i'll add a phase to my timeline for this testing
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04:51.03dreevessweet the tube looks like tube now trims appear to be fully functional!
04:51.38dreevesslow but noting a little prepping and subdivision couldn't improve
05:04.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03ddreeves70 * r34216 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: this appears to have the trims implemented correctly now. Pretty slow needs some work to make faster but a good first cut.
05:07.00dreevesstarseeker which one of the files should I test with from http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/CAD_MODELS/VIA_OpenBook/
05:16.22dreevesstarseeker nevermind I found what I was looking for
05:35.25typ0does brl-cad support having BREP Objects as CSG Primitives ?
06:12.00Ralithbrlcad: with an approach to communication like that, one can see why.
06:15.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1386 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */
06:18.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded a new version of "[[Image:Brep Cylinder.png]]"
06:19.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Brep Dented Sphere.png]]"
06:20.06CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1389 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */
06:21.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Brep Ellipsoid.png]]"
06:22.15CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1391 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */
06:24.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1392 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */
06:25.54CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Brep Paraboloid.png]]"
06:27.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1394 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */
06:28.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded a new version of "[[Image:Brep Pipe.png]]"
06:29.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Brep Rebuilt Sphere.png]]"
06:30.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1397 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */
06:32.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Brep Sph Cyl 1.png]]"
06:33.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1399 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */
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06:34.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Brep Sph Cyl 2.png]]"
06:35.16CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1401 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */
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06:37.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Brep Sphere.png]]"
06:38.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1403 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */
06:39.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded a new version of "[[Image:Brep Torus.png]]"
06:40.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1405 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */
06:41.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Brep Tube.png]]"
06:43.49dreevesstarseeker brlcad I have updated the wiki with raytraced images some issues I need to investigate but at least now I don't think it is trims causing the problem
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06:46.47dreevesI'm working to see if I can raytrace d2.g
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06:50.48brlcadtyp0: yes, we have a new 'brep' primitive being implemented
06:54.29dreevesbrlcad i put the tube image on wiki
06:56.50brlcaddreeves: yeah, I saw!
06:57.03brlcadpretty cool -- is that an inner trim with an outer trim?
06:57.10brlcadhow's the top handled?
06:57.11dreevesyes
06:57.17brlcadawesome
06:57.50brlcadso you do some left/right parity test on the trims to determine if it's a hit?
06:58.30dreevesI find the closest point on the trim to the hit point in uv space
06:59.06dreevesthen I get the normal at that point and make direction vector from the closest point to the hit point then compare the normal to the dir vector
06:59.31dreevesif they are pointing the same dir then the point is outside the curve
07:00.09brlcadfor an outer trim, how's that help testing against an inner trim?
07:00.20brlcador worse, nested trims
07:00.33dreeveswell inner trims are nested
07:00.50dreevesat least they are in opennurbs
07:01.20dreevessame check
07:01.23brlcadright, but case of having an inner trim that has another outer trim inside of it
07:01.40brlcada post running through your tube example's hole
07:02.11dreevesyeah the difference of the 2 is that an inner you throw away hits inside vs outside
07:02.34dreevesit actually is pretty simple
07:03.20dreevesthe first loop is always an outer trim and all the others according to what I read are holes...
07:04.09dreevesActually have no rays on the tube where I have an odd number of hits
07:04.38dreevesfor that matter none on any of the geometries except I had 2 on the dented sphere
07:05.05dreevesI think that is from the singularity trims
07:05.07brlcadright, but iirc, you can have holes in your holes (resulting in non-holes hits inside)
07:05.52dreevesremembers someone saying you can't dig a hole in hole :)
07:05.55brlcadmight be misremembering, but recall going over the need for testing all the curves to determine if the point was trimmed
07:06.10brlcada pseudo parity test of sorts (but not really)
07:06.17dreevesI'm just joking btw
07:06.23dreevesI know what you are asking
07:06.55brlcaddoes end up being parity in UV space iirc, a straight line in any direction
07:07.04dreevesYeah I do check every trim every time unless I determine the point is trimmed
07:07.37dreevesnot the way I did it the code that was there previously definitely went that way
07:08.03dreevesbut I decided against that was having to many problems with tolerance issues
07:08.30dreevesmy special case trim lead me down that path
07:09.03brlcadmaybe just need an even more 'special case' :)
07:09.55dreevesWell knock on wood so far every test case I have thrown at it it is handling the trims looks like we still have some issues with normal on some of the spheres
07:10.34brlcadyeah, the dented sphere looks pretty wrong
07:10.54dreevesI'm fairly sure those are normal issues because if it was missing hit points I would be getting odd number of hits which I'm not
07:12.03dreevesI think I'm getting those issues near face boundaries but I'm not sure yet
07:13.16dreeveswould you say that dent looks right or not?  Maybe I should build an actual dent sphere and compare
07:15.20brlcaddoesn't look right to me
07:15.34brlcadedges seem too dark, highlight is peculiar
07:15.50brlcadalmost like it's bulging out instead of in
07:16.31dreevesprobably should maybe rt from different angles like from the side then it will be obvious what is going on
07:21.52dreevesthe code is very much in prototype form right now btw
07:22.56brlcadit's quite possible that it's actually correct too, just a lot of unnatural distoration due to lacking global illumination
07:23.37dreevesright I'm more concerned with what looks like the 2 rips in the surface
07:24.05dreevesthe rebuilt sphere is showing the problem as well
07:24.18dreevesDo you know where those test cases came from?
07:28.33dreevesThe rips could be from tolerances I guess I will focus on that next.  I'm going to leave the rt of starseeker's d2.g (the laptop part) i think if it works will probably take hours
07:28.49brlcadnot quite the same setup, but interesting nonetheless: http://brlcad.org/tmp/dented_sph.png
07:29.17brlcadso maybe it is right
07:29.46brlcadthough interesting that the lights are that different
07:30.55dreevesare you certain that you got all the dimension the same?
07:31.03brlcadnot at all
07:31.10brlcadjust eyeballed up something similar
07:31.25dreevesyeah you case makes its point though
07:31.48dreevesbut the difference in dimension could explain the difference in the lighting
07:31.59brlcadyep
07:32.48brlcadbetting the 3dm one is probably pretty tiny
07:33.02dreevesThis is where I wish I had direct access to more powerful machines I think I could definitely trouble shoot these more complex examples
07:33.32dreevesYeah very small I think
07:33.48dreevesfaster is what I meant to say
07:34.14dreevesI think I will be able to trouble shoot them but I'm going to have to optimize just to be able to troubleshoot
07:35.44dreevesI think we are making good progress what do you think?
07:36.00brlcadfantastic progress
07:36.23brlcadand 'we' is being very generous -- 'you' are making great progress
07:36.29brlcadnice work
07:37.03dreevesthanks
07:37.30brlcadwelp, I have a presentation to finish up for later today, ttyl!
07:37.45dreevesbut I wasn't hamming for a compliment I was just curious because you had seen previous attempts at this and I was interested in your view of comparsion
07:38.20brlcadthe devil is in the robustness
07:38.28dreevesagreed
07:38.48dreevesok well ttyl I have to grab some sleep I have early meetings
07:39.14brlcadprevious efforts were also quick to show quick progress on sample cases, but then every new sample introduced a new problem, often conflicting .. and the spagetti and tolerance tweaking hell begins :)
07:39.59brlcadyour efforts are pretty quick, though, great to see
07:40.19dreevesyeah I'm not going to be happy until we get some much larger examples going but I want to clean up the small ones first
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11:50.58starseekerdreeves: yeah, the d2 model I've only successfully raytraced overnight
11:51.25starseekerI think there are something like 20+ minutes of prep time - can't recall how long the actual raytrace took
11:52.13starseekeronce that one is working I'll do a proper import of the openmoko model as openNURBS files and then we can really have some fun ;-)
12:50.21dreevesstarseeker yeah the rt still isn't handling that one yet.  Did you see the update on the wiki of the tube?
12:59.53brlcadgroves to Only by NiN
13:00.49kanzurehah.
13:00.53kanzureI now knight you, sir brlcad
13:03.46brlcadbows
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13:24.15starseekerhrm - segmentation fault on the d2 raytrace here
13:26.22starseekerdreeves: yeah, saw the tube - awesome! :-)
13:27.26starseekergroans as he realizes he needs to stop by the bank
13:27.30starseekeryuck
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14:50.07brlcadhi Elena
14:50.50Elenahello
14:50.56Elenaone sec
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14:56.28elenai'm back.
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15:58.02starseekerreclaims his name
16:00.18pacman87and the thrown? or do you have to raise an army first?
16:00.36pacman87er, throne
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16:07.18louipcSir Morrison will defend your honour.
16:15.33dreeves2Hey brlcad or starseeker did ed see the trimmed breps yet?  I'm curious about his feedback
16:17.37``Erikgrumbles, reads, and grumbles some more
16:19.17``Erikthis is sad, I'm seein' crap in email before the irc excahnge that caused it heh
16:20.10``Erikyes, sir morrison will grab a lance and jump on a horse
16:20.12``Erik:D
16:23.53``Erikponders the cultural swath of this all
16:23.56brlcadwants a lance and a pony
16:24.26``Erikwaren't all too long ago that such a form was highly praising in the anglo culture, y'know?
16:24.46``Eriktotally has to give brlcad a "my little pony" now :D
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16:25.54``ErikI gave my brother a sailor moon doll for his 16th birthday, he retaliated by giving me a 'callisto' doll from xena the next year :)
16:26.08``Erikhopes he didn't say anything insulting O.o
16:27.57``Erikbrlcad, you asked me about mentoring rolls... I'm kinda imagining my utility being as a meta-mentor this go-around, the # of slots vs mentors seem to match up for that
16:28.25``ErikI can take one on as a specific roll, but I want to let other people do it so we get a broader experience base
16:43.18starseekercould see brlcad taking up jousting if crew gets to be too mundane ;-)
16:43.54pacman87or do both at once and joust on the water
16:44.38starseekerheh - "ramming speed!"
16:45.11``Erikdid ramming speed in canoes, in freezing weather... was on the losing boat, it sucked
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16:49.07starseeker``Erik: one too many viewings of Ben Hur? ;-)
16:49.26``Erikum, actually, I've never seen that
16:50.24starseekerfinally - a cultural icon I HAVE seen and someone else HASN'T ;-)
16:50.54``Erikdons his dunce cap
17:13.19*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.146.249)
17:29.38``Eriknice, jabbering with a fbsd dude who got a brlcad license back in 'the day', with the faxes and shit
17:30.51starseekerheh, cool
17:47.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34217 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/ (tankwizard/TankWizard.tcl tirewizard/TireWizard.tcl): Modified the TireWizard and the TankWizard to use ttk.
17:53.34*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
18:06.22*** join/#brlcad dreeves2 (n=c752f347@bz.bzflag.bz)
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18:52.01brlcad``Erik: that's fine, but then you need to be wielding a meta-mentor hammer to get the other mentors to check the mentor willingness button
18:52.36brlcadat least two need to step up, or a slot will be dropped
18:52.47brlcadwill send an e-mail today
18:52.58brlcaddreeves2: yes, he saw it -- talked about it with him for a while
18:53.28brlcadone of the things that might make things work is that I believe nested trims toggle orientation for each nesting
18:53.41``Erikwill serve where needed.
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19:00.51*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
19:08.54dreeves2brlcad thanks.  You are correct about the nesting and orientation and the current trim code supports that
19:09.47dreeves2brlcad are you seeing a problem with the trim of any of the examples?  I think all those trims are working
19:10.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34218 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: document the fact that opendb reports the open database if no arguments are given
19:10.14dreeves2I think I am having a normal problem that is affecting good calculation of the surface normals
19:20.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34219 10/brlcad/trunk/include/rtgeom.h: clean up comment ws alignment
19:28.54*** join/#brlcad AlexandreGuedes (n=chatzill@189-92-138-78.3g.claro.net.br)
19:32.00dreeves2I meant I'm having a tolerance issue that is causing problems when calculating surface normals
19:32.26dreeves2Seems to be happening when approaching face edges
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19:47.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34220 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/togglearrow.itk: Modified Togglearrow to use ttk.
20:00.28*** join/#brlcad andax (n=andax__@d213-102-40-224.cust.tele2.ch)
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20:48.15CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Carlosvsilva 07http://brlcad.org * r1407 10/wiki/User:Carlosvsilva: Posted reviewed application, hope to get feedback!
20:59.26typ0is my application well-defined and good enough for brl-cad project
20:59.42typ0or are there some areas which could be improved further ?
21:06.10brlcadtyp0: before answering that, did you do everything on our gsoc checklist?
21:07.05brlcadI don't recall a patch for you iirc, which would be a problem as that's a pretty big evaluation factor
21:07.55hippieindamakin8brlcad, any comments ?
21:08.42hippieindamakin8though it was not a high priority and was minute
21:08.58typ0brlcad: yep, i read all
21:09.17brlcadnot talking about reading it :)
21:09.21typ0and i am now picking up a good issue to produce a patch
21:09.22brlcadthose are action lists ;)
21:09.33typ0yeah, i mean i done it all except for the patch
21:09.48typ0i was pretty busy with brlcad not running on the latest X11 for MacOS X
21:10.01hippieindamakin8brlcad, :) neways keeping my fingers crossed
21:10.01typ0ultimately i downgraded and it started working
21:10.30brlcadrather late to be working on a patch :)
21:10.50typ0i spent a lot of time with the code, but the bug was crossing to the Tk side of the project, and i wasn't so familiar with it
21:11.02hippieindamakin8retires to bed
21:11.13typ0yeah im late
21:11.17typ0previously i thought there was no interest in my application
21:11.27typ0for the lack of comments and no answering to my questions here
21:11.48hippieindamakin8brlcad, dont u ever sleep ?or u go on combat naps ?
21:11.57typ0can i still submit a patch today ?
21:12.27brlcadtyp0: you can, it'll just be tough to evaluate it fairly against others
21:13.30typ0i see
21:13.44typ0that's why i have some work from me at http://planet.homeunix.org
21:14.00typ0gSoC 2007 and other
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21:35.58*** part/#brlcad pacman87 (n=pacman87@resnet-46-40.dorm.utexas.edu)
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22:20.20Ralithbrlcad: thanks for the comments!  That addressed my major uncertainties quite nicely.
22:27.30Ralithweb browsers should support embedding user-supplied text editors for multiline entry areas.
22:38.55Ralithmafm: you there?
22:43.40mafmRalith: yes, I am
22:44.12Ralithmafm: how much does g3d as-is interact with libged?
22:44.25RalithI remember hearing that it could load geometry; is that the case?
22:46.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34221 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/Makefile.am: distcheck fixme
22:47.41mafmRalith: it uses commands that in turn call g3d directly
22:48.49Ralithhow much, not how.
22:48.53Ralithwhat does it do?
22:49.09mafmbasically, nothing, just sample commands if at all
22:49.27mafmlibged and higher level services using it were incomplete by that time
22:49.52Ralithso it can't load geometry?
22:50.21mafmsee GedCommand*
22:51.05mafmit calls libged directly, though it should use the geometry server, I don't know if it's available now
22:51.39mafmit won't load a .g file and show it in the screen, not that
22:52.17mafmI started implementing simple commands, and discovered (and fixed, then with help from brlcad) some segfaults in libged itself, etc
22:52.27mafmpart of that was already after gsoc
22:53.16Ralithkk
22:53.17Raliththanks
22:55.03mafmI started by creating an ogre environment with the windows, camera modes, a console with commands for controlling the application etc; since the migration to libged was pretty much WIP and there was no network abstraction over that at the time
22:55.05brlcadthe geometry server is to a simple working state now where it will accept a connection and can deliver geometry
22:57.04Ralithoo
22:57.11Raliththat sounds functional enough to hook up to!
22:57.53Ralithconsidering that I'm cutting back on the amount of functionality that will be implemented, think that might be a reasonable thing to do?
22:59.01mafmwell, I'd say that you first get Qt working with OGRE
22:59.21Ralithof course
22:59.25mafmit might be trivial, it might not if there are problems with multi-threading and so on
22:59.52mafmthen you can replace the simple windows by mimicking the interface, or enhancing them while doing so
23:00.05mafmyou can then get rid of non-Qt stuff, and go on from there
23:00.26mafmthe working commands are pretty basic
23:00.34Raliththat's my first two milestones right there :P
23:01.10mafmyou need to convert geometry to be shown in OGRE, that part is not done (I created a sample tetrahedron, not a proper conversion)
23:02.07mafmand a way to convert back from ogre to libged
23:02.23Ralithogre's just for display
23:02.40RalithI think it would be better to go libged -> ogre, edits -> libged, libged -> ogre
23:02.46mafmwell, yes, but you first need to convert a .g to OGRE object, don't know very well how
23:02.48Ralithrather than libged -> ogre, edits -> ogre, ogre -> libged
23:03.01RalithI wouldn't do that either
23:03.09Ralithjust have some logic for rendering the .g in-situ
23:03.40mafmbut then need to be able to tell to libged which vertex that you're selecting to remove or something like that, I guess (dunno much about the process of modelling)
23:03.45Ralithe.g. I may try to implement some basic mged-style wireframeness, which would just look at the primitive type and its params and procedurally form a wireframe based on that
23:03.51Ralithso?
23:04.21Ralithall actual editing of the file should be done through the interface provided by BRL-CAD
23:04.31Ralithremember, this is supposed to be something of a thin client
23:04.52Ralithjust a GUI and state display
23:04.57mafmyes, but if you position the object by clicking with the mouse, you'll have to convert from OGRE coordinates to brl-cad coordinates
23:05.21Ralither, is there a reason not to just set things up such that they're equivalent?
23:05.43Ralithit'd be incredibly convenient to do things like selecting objects would be incredibly convenient through librt, anyway, I think
23:06.38Ralith'cuz that's what a selection is, really; tracing a ray from the camera's orign through the screen and finding the first thing it intersects with
23:07.03mafmI don't even know if OGRE coordinates and brl-cad's are the same
23:07.40mafmso (1, 0, 3) might not be the same point in OGRE display and brl-cad backend :)
23:08.36mafmnote that I say might, actually it's one of the things that I'd had liked to investigate last summer, but didn't get to that point
23:08.48Ralithso if they aren't, set them up to be so.
23:08.56Ralithit's a 3 dimensional cartesian coordinate system
23:09.04Raliththey can only be so different
23:09.38mafmI didn't say that it was a lot of work, just that it needs to be studied :)
23:10.28mafmand if OGRE doesn't accept .g files, which I guess not, you have to perform some kind of conversion to "load" the view in OGRE
23:10.59RalithI'm fairly sure OGRE can render things in ways other than loading files.
23:11.35mafmyes, like creating so called "manual objects" (as the sample tetrahedron)
23:13.20mafmprobably this step is also not very hard, I just name it as something to be done not yet implemented in g3d
23:15.05mafmif you're satisfied with the way that commands, camera modes etc work, I'd say that the next steps would be to hook to the Geometry Service and start replicating the functionality of the editor
23:15.36mafmmaybe the structure of commands as it's now it's not needed, and for GED commands you can just send them as a string over the network
23:16.29mafm(currently it does some pre-processing checking number of arguments, etc)
23:17.08mafmbrlcad: am I correct, or am I a bad mentor? :P
23:29.38mafm...
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090415

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090415

00:07.56*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-155.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
02:00.29*** join/#brlcad AlexandreGuedes_ (n=chatzill@189-92-153-51.3g.claro.net.br)
02:19.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Carlosvsilva 07http://brlcad.org * r1408 10/wiki/User:Carlosvsilva: Added a patch to my IGES converter application, to enable the converters to support different versions of the standard
02:35.35starseekerdreeves: I'm going to look into the prep time, see what's taking so long on the d2 model
02:37.14*** join/#brlcad AlexandreGuedes_ (n=chatzill@189-92-173-140.3g.claro.net.br)
02:38.29dreevesstarseeker sounds good!!
02:38.47starseekerhard to debug raytracing when the prep time is so long!
02:39.41dreevesI'm investigating what is causing the spots on a few of the examples
02:39.59dreevesYes agreed that definitely will slow the process down
02:40.46dreevesIf I get the spots problem cleaned up we problem should spend a little time cleaning up the brep.cpp code
02:41.51dreevesare you able to spend much of your day working on this or is this more of a pet project at the moment?
02:44.50CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1409 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Modified milestones and timeline to lessen scope
02:46.00Ralithbrlcad: ^
02:50.38starseekerdreeves: I can spend some time on it - my difficulty is simply getting up to speed on the code/concepts in general
02:50.58starseekerprep should be a good place to work though
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02:54.52dreevesyeah that should be a good place there are a lot of different things a play here can be a little steep to get started
02:55.26dreevesbut once you get into it isn't that bad though
03:00.05dreevesI'm sure most think the spots on dented sphere are missed rays but if they are they are going all the ray through with out hitting either side otherwise I would have an odd number of hits along the ray
03:00.31dreevesI fairly confident something is getting hosed up in calculating the normal
03:00.39starseekernods
03:01.08dreevesdoes Ed think it is missed rays?
03:01.22starseekerdon't know
03:01.44starseekerI don't see any missed rays - I see a conflict between the shadow effect and the light reflection effect
03:02.39starseekerany idea what that clipping is on the bottom of Paraboloid?
03:02.40dreeveswhat about the spots away from the dent?  I think the actual dent is fine it is just some weird optics going on because of the lighting
03:02.57starseekerum.  not sure about those
03:05.47dreevesThose are the spots I'm really concerned about and the ones on the rebuiltSphere the problem is a little more obvious there
03:53.02*** part/#brlcad pacman87 (n=pacman87@resnet-46-40.dorm.utexas.edu)
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04:45.29AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: sean
04:45.56AlexandreGuedesup to now, i didn't manage to fix a bug
04:47.42AlexandreGuedeswould be important I submit another patch, only to show that I had build the system ?
04:48.21pacman87the patch is to show how you code
04:48.36pacman87any patch would be better than no patch
04:49.58AlexandreGuedesthis is the main goal
04:52.18AlexandreGuedespacman87: You took part in gsoc 2008 with brl-CAD ?
04:54.21pacman87yes
04:54.36pacman87AlexandreGuedes: yes
04:56.49AlexandreGuedesare you Dawn Thomas ?
04:57.08pacman87no
04:57.56pacman87http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Pacman87
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05:27.30AlexandreGuedespacman87: the submiteds patch are here ? http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?words=tracker_browse&sort=open_date&sortdir=desc&offset=0&group_id=105292&atid=640804
05:28.07pacman87add that as a comment on your application on the GSoC site
05:28.24pacman87and i'm not the one who's evaluating you
05:29.08pacman87and add you application to your user page in the wiki (if you haven't already done so)
05:29.18pacman87add your*
05:29.29pacman87and put the link there as well
05:33.22louipcpacman87: :O you're like a prodigy!
05:33.51pacman87louipc: ?
05:34.36louipcme/ee 4.0 gpa :D
05:34.43louipcI think that's nuts
05:41.05pacman87i have fun :D
05:44.03pacman87currently juggling a microcontroller project, writing a trusted p2p network, distributed failure recovery programming lab, modifying another processor simulator program to include virtual memory, and a few other things
05:54.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03AlexandreGuedes 07http://brlcad.org * r1410 10/wiki/User:AlexandreGuedes: New page: ==SoC Applications== ===Further OpenGL Geometry Editor GUI development=== ====Abstract==== Nowadays there are many geometry formats files, each one is more appropriate to a different appli...
06:06.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03AlexandreGuedes 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:ConverterTable.jpg]]"
06:18.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03AlexandreGuedes 07http://brlcad.org * r1412 10/wiki/User:AlexandreGuedes:
06:36.44yukonbobhi cadnerds
06:37.06pacman87hi yukonbob
06:37.11yukonbobapologizes for lack of presence.... crappy net connection, crazy werk. :P
06:37.18yukonbobwaves to pacman87
06:38.04pacman87waves, then goes back to figuring out the keypad interface
06:38.18pacman87somehow managed to swap rows and columns
06:38.37yukonbobkeypad iface... mged?
06:38.47pacman87nope, microcontroller lab
06:38.54yukonbobah
06:39.00yukonbob_that_ interface
06:43.44AlexandreGuedesnow I have wiki page
06:44.00AlexandreGuedespacman87:
06:44.33pacman87AlexandreGuedes: i'm not in charge of anything relating to GSoC
06:44.49AlexandreGuedesi know
06:44.58pacman87just making sure
06:45.42AlexandreGuedesI just said because you suggested
06:47.19AlexandreGuedesActually I knew, but up to now I didn't have done
07:16.09Ralith22:55:41 < CIA-28> BRL-CAD: AlexandreGuedes http://brlcad.org * r1410 /wiki/User:AlexandreGuedes: New page: ==SoC Applications== ===Further OpenGL Geometry Editor GUI  development=== ====Abstract==== Nowadays there are many geometry formats files, each one is more appropriate to a different appli...
07:16.14RalithCIA's bugged.
07:16.23Ralithone of those headers is from my userpage.
07:21.03pacman87of course the CIA's bugged, what do you think the NSA does in their spare time? :P
07:22.53Ralithlol
07:23.46AlexandreGuedesRalith: CIA is ok, I got your page as model, but I forgot to delete this sentence "Further OpenGL Geometry Editor GUI development"
07:24.12Ralithoh? I guess I overlooked it
07:24.22Ralithwas all worried about competition >_>
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09:10.00hippieindamakin8waves
09:10.23pacman87waves back
09:28.43AlexandreGuedeso create my patche but didin't report some new files that I created
09:29.03AlexandreGuedesi used "svn diff > brlcad.patch"
09:31.49pacman87AlexandreGuedes: did you do a svn add?
09:32.25AlexandreGuedesi didn't
09:32.36AlexandreGuedesi must ?
09:33.11pacman87points in the general direction of the svn man page
09:33.41pacman874:30am, time for bed
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11:09.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03AlexandreGuedes 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:WorkScope.jpg]]"
11:21.31d-lostretches.
11:21.34d-lomernin!
11:22.02brlcadhowdy d-lo
11:22.18d-lohey there.  How are things?
11:22.45brlcadpretty good!
11:23.54d-logoing rowin' this morning?
11:23.56brlcadd-lo: so are you bol?
11:24.17d-lobol == ??
11:24.28brlcadawol -> aol -> bol ;)
11:24.49d-loah yes, I see.
11:25.03d-loI am currently on vacation from vacation... so, back to work :)
11:28.06CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03AlexandreGuedes 07http://brlcad.org * r1414 10/wiki/User:AlexandreGuedes: AlexandreGuedes
11:29.30AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: I did some jobs tonight
11:30.16brlcadAlexandreGuedes: kinda very last minute, isn't it? :)
11:30.23AlexandreGuedesI wrote some comments about it in proposal page
11:30.28brlcadyou know that today is the decision day
11:31.03brlcadstill, thanks for the updates -- will take a look at them
11:31.17AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: yes I know I have some commitments
11:32.08AlexandreGuedesbut now I'm free
11:45.05brlcadd-lo: have you seen the gsoc applications yet?
11:45.32brlcadcan talk in private about any of them specifically (or via the private comments on sochop)
11:47.15brlcadI went ahead and assigned you to someone just to have you assigned, but there are three or four 'finalists' still being evaluated for the last two slots (they're the ones ranked 1 and 0)
11:47.30d-lobrlcad:  I have a huge backlog of GSoC emails to read :/  Been disconnected for almost two weeks now ;)
11:47.57d-lolast time I read email was about the 2nd/3rd of April
11:48.24brlcadI know, that's why I'm mentioning it now
11:48.29brlcadtoday is the final selections day
11:48.33brlcadin a few hours
11:49.19brlcadat this point, I don't think there is anything that you "have" to do
11:49.36brlcadthe only thing you "should" do, though, is mark which of the non-negative applications you'd be willing to mentor
11:49.47brlcadthere's a button
11:50.02brlcadwhether it's the one I have you assigned to now, or one of the others
11:50.06d-loI can do a 'button'.... sounds easy ;)
11:50.19brlcadlemme know (in PM) if you have a preference for mentoring one of the other projects
11:50.20d-loI'll add it to the queue of 'thingados' today
11:50.47brlcadhttp://socghop.appspot.com/org/list_proposals/google/gsoc2009/brlcad
11:50.55brlcadthat's where the fun is at
11:51.05d-lothanks for the linkage!
11:51.40brlcadonly daniel and cliff are "set" mentors
11:51.59brlcadthe rest can be adjusted, and the 1-ranked are still tentative
11:52.40brlcader, 1-scored
12:09.30AlexandreGuedesbrlcad: Were the decisions already taken?
12:12.51hippieindamakin8waves at brlcad and d-lo
12:14.20d-loMernin Hippie!
12:17.47brlcadAlexandreGuedes: eh, you did read my last line there right? :)
12:18.01brlcad~dict tentative
12:18.16brlcadwell that was mostly useless
12:19.19brlcad~dict 4 tentative
12:19.53d-lo'creeping like snail' lol
12:21.31brlcadersatz students!
12:22.36AlexandreGuedesyou are talking about Student Proposal
12:28.41brlcadvery observant
12:30.34AlexandreGuedesi made a confusion here
12:31.52AlexandreGuedesI was not talking about this subject
12:33.59brlcadwaits for AlexandreGuedes to complete his thought..
12:34.29_clock_I talked about brlcad to an older couple on the train
12:34.40AlexandreGuedeswhen you said "AlexandreGuedes: eh, you did read my last line there right? :)"
12:35.16AlexandreGuedesi asked "you are talking about Student Proposal" ?
12:35.22d-lo's brain just SCRAMmed :/
12:35.53brlcadAlexandreGuedes: I don't need a replay -- you're just not clarifying anything
12:36.25brlcadto clarify, you could explain what you were asking about instead of saying what you were not asking about
12:36.59AlexandreGuedesbut now I had already understood...
12:37.40AlexandreGuedeshehe
12:37.41d-lohahahahahahaha
12:38.08d-loI think I an going to copy/paste this into my blog.... its great!
12:38.31AlexandreGuedesi need sleep some time
12:39.09brlcadis confused and gives up
12:44.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34222 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ (Archer.tcl ArcherCore.tcl): Ripped out the edit history hack.
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12:48.30d-lobrlcad:  lordy you keep it cold in here!  67?!  You on crazy mo-fo.
12:48.36d-loon==one
12:48.50brlcadshrugs, felt warm yesterday
12:49.50brlcadplus, the brain slows down when it's warm
12:49.56brlcadwhy most schools are frigid
12:50.13d-lothe real key is to oxygenate the work place ;)
12:50.29louipchmmm. that's interesting.
12:50.37d-lobump up o2 levels by 0.5% .... makes a disturbing difference!
12:50.37brlcadtoo much O2 can make you sleepy too
12:50.56brlcadO2+warm, killer
12:51.07brlcadcalled nap time
12:51.14d-lotrue, but the Casinos in Vegas have the concept down pat.  Submarines do too ;)
12:53.09d-loas for the GSoC Student proposals... they are supposed to propse and detail a work project... correct?
12:53.15brlcadtwo environments where I'd argue that they want people to think less, not more ;)  keep them subdued to programmed responses (keep playing, push the knobs we told you to push)
12:54.16brlcadwonders if more O2 makes you more inclined to be suggestive or obey
12:54.41brlcadsounds like an experiment to impose on management!
12:54.53louipchahah
12:56.03d-loactually, lack of o2 makes you more sleepy than excessive o2 does.  If you are in a casino and start feeling out of breath and/or sleepy, you'll leave the slots!  On a sub, you need to be alert and ready to go.  Thus (on a sub at least) they bump abient o2 levels by 0.25-0.5% above 'the norm'... can't speak to what Casinos bump theirs to.
12:56.28d-loexcessive o2 does make lighting a cigarette much more exciting though :)
12:56.45brlcadnot sleepy, just not thinking at full capacity
12:57.48brlcadanyways, irrelevant with little means to test any theories at this point ;)
12:57.59d-lohrm, i need to get you on a Tiger cruise on a sub sometime.  I think then you would realize you want the subsailors thinking at 101% capacity ;)
12:58.32d-lo...I'll 'borrow' an o2 cyl and start a slow bleed in the building next week :)
12:58.56louipckaboom
12:59.24d-lolouipc: nah, no boom.  Hence the 'slow' bleed ;)
12:59.25brlcadwarm body/brain is still pretty well studied, hardly anything motivates and energizes as well as slightly 'cool'
12:59.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Carlosvsilva 07http://brlcad.org * r1415 10/wiki/User:Carlosvsilva: Posted the patch in SF.net bug tracker, added TOC and cleanup formatting
12:59.44d-loas much as I want a new building, thats not the right way to get it :)
13:00.04brlcadand yes, they're supposed to propose a project
13:00.14brlcaddon't waste your time on the ones already marked negative
13:00.20louipcI wonder if that's why northern countries seem more developed than countries in warmer climates
13:00.55louipcwell, the danger of freezing is definitely motivating.
13:01.01brlcadlouipc: I'm sure there is some truth to that
13:01.17brlcadbut there's also the issue of environment
13:01.34brlcadwhen you're in paradise ... who wants to work?
13:01.42louipcyep
13:02.12d-lobrlcad so you are saying that warm == paradise?  =D
13:03.25brlcadin terms of being 'comfortable' and 'relaxed' and having lazy days on the beach with a pi?a coloda -- absolutely :)
13:04.14d-loah, okay.  I was about to point out that a bulk of northern part of Africa is also very warm :)
13:04.46brlcadhydration is a key feature of paradise ;)
13:06.08d-logood point.  never get a beer locally brewed in the middle east.... blech.
13:17.12mafmbrlcad: piña colAda :P
13:18.00mafm(that's an n with a tilde ~ above, if the charset is not showing it properly)
13:21.17mafmd-lo: I was preparing the application and so I put the "placeholder", but alas I didn't apply and couldn't withdraw it after that, so that explains the litter :P
13:22.02d-loah, I see.  -5 for pathetic excuses. ;)
13:22.28brlcadmafm: different charsets, that's what mine was too
13:22.34brlcad???
13:26.24mafmbrlcad: I only see ??? :)
13:27.38madanttoo
13:28.02madantswam after 4 months
13:28.34madantbrlcad: rowing is not stressful on the knees ?
13:28.38mafmbut the point was that it's colada, not coloda (filtered pineapple)
13:28.44brlcadmadant: nope
13:28.50d-lowow, you were swimming at the age of 4 months?  not bad madant, not bad!
13:28.58brlcadmafm: just a typo :P
13:29.04madanti mean compared to running . :)
13:29.08mafmthe dictionary nazi
13:29.12madantd-lo, ha
13:29.45madantbrlcad, i hear that done properly rowing works almost every muscle in your body ?
13:29.54brlcadpretty much
13:30.27madantbrlcad, considering there are a lot of muscles on the face , maybe a rowing with a lot of gestures would be complete body work out :P
13:30.53brlcadyou end up making a lot of different faces depending on the level of pain regardless ;)
13:31.01madantwas afraid that he had forgot swimming.
13:31.48brlcadchuckles at http://www.uksport.gov.uk/assets/Image/newsArchive/rowing_0912_main.jpg
13:34.50louipchttp://images.nlroei.nl/fotoboek/images/onzrjzytpa/285-8523_IMG.jpg
13:35.10brlcadhehe
13:35.37louipcthis is comedy gold. I should take up rowing
13:39.51brlcadyou should!
13:40.02brlcadeveryone should.. fantastic sport :)
13:40.45louipcI'm going to try rock climbing/bouldering first
13:43.03madantthinks with these pictures no doubt , rowing rocks :P
13:43.17madantlouipc, bouldering is awesome
13:44.02madantlikes technical sport climbing, but the low equipment requirement of bouldering is nice :)
13:45.11_clock_have you ever done tree climbing?
13:50.21madantlives in Kerala-"god's own country"- where people climb even coconut trees - not to mention a college which teaches advanced courses on the same :P
13:50.48d-loan advanced course on Coconut tree climbing?
14:04.00madantd-lo, yep :)
14:04.45d-loawesome, simply awesome.  Is there a degree in 'climbing' ?
14:05.00_clock_I am making a tree-age-dee
14:05.15_clock_MaSc.
14:05.34_clock_Master of ascent
14:06.03_clock_I would like to live in a tree house
14:06.37madanthttp://www.hindu.com/mp/2004/04/12/stories/2004041202230200.htm this is not exactly the place , but i can't find the link for the real deal :P
14:07.33madantoh forgot to mention, there is also a elephant in-charge training centre here too :P
14:07.34d-lois experiencing come culture shock!
14:07.48madantshould desist :D
14:08.05_clock_I hope physical fitness is not among requirements
14:08.36_clock_just filled a chocolate Easter bunny with water and put into a freezer
14:10.22_clock_"We plan to work as a group and hope to get a telephone"
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14:15.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34223 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (conv/asc2g.c librt/primitives/bot/bot.c): (log message trimmed)
14:15.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: Fixed memory issues CAD team was having with 'asc2g' on new Tcl based ASCII
14:15.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: format. There were a couple of issues, first memory wasn't being freed
14:15.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: correctly from Tcl list object so took Bob's advice and changed usage
14:15.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: in rt_bot_adjust(), second 'asc2g' was using Tcl_EvalFile() which buffers
14:15.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: entire file into memory again causing issues with some large Pro-E
14:15.13CIA-28BRL-CAD: conversions. Changed 'asc2g.c' to load ASCII file in manageable
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14:59.14dreeves2starseeker and brlcad so the rips in dented sphere I think I have determined those are holes.  
15:00.29dreeves2If you rt from a different angle the problem becomes more obvious
15:00.47dreeves2I have some work to do there
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15:47.59d-lotofu eh?
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17:13.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34224 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ (Archer.tcl ArcherCore.tcl): Mods to update things for when not Archer is not inheriting from itk::Toplevel.
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18:10.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Jdoliner 07http://brlcad.org * r1416 10/wiki/User:Jdoliner: Copied in my application, I'll update this to include more information in about an hour.
18:35.39starseekerdreeves: hmm - here's a backtrace for the raytrace failure with openbook:  http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m12bd2f0e
18:44.09brlcad_brlcadstarseeker: you still have the debug session up?
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18:45.05starseekeryes
18:45.27starseekerbrlcad_brlcad: still up
18:45.42brlcad_brlcadp i
18:45.48brlcad_brlcadp trim->m_c2i
18:46.07starseekerp i -> 0
18:46.20starseekerp trim->m_c2i -> 3422
18:47.14starseekerp t -> 0
18:50.07brlcad_brlcadp trimCurve
18:50.43brlcad_brlcadand, p curveApproximations[trim->m_c2i][i]
18:50.51brlcad_brlcadsuspect that's what's oob
18:52.02brlcad_brlcadahh, definitely
18:52.18brlcad_brlcadcurveApproximations is only [100][200]
18:52.25brlcad_brlcadthat index of 3422 is way out of range
18:53.51brlcad_brlcadp loop->TrimCount()
18:54.42starseeker(gdb) p trimCurve
18:54.43starseeker$5 = (const ON_Curve *) 0x8ce6dd0
18:55.08starseeker(gdb) p curveApproximations[trim->m_c2i][i]
18:55.08starseeker$6 = { x = 1.2401802885544486e+151,  y = 1.9476649113403901e+243,  z = 1.2401796641872861e+151
18:55.11starseeker}
18:55.27brlcad_brlcadyeah, random data
18:55.33brlcad_brlcadthe last p?
18:55.37starseeker(gdb) p loop->TrimCount()
18:55.39starseeker$7 = 4
19:02.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34225 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: dumb hack, but it should affect a curve approximations crash. looks like trim->m_c2i is about 3500 .. which is about 3400 indices too many for the previous size of the container. up the limit to 10000.
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19:12.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34226 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): quell warnings for virtual destructors, unused vars, and size_t types
19:23.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34227 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: some style cleanup, should follow hacking guide
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19:37.27starseekerbrlcad:  yeah, that let the d2 model raytrace
19:43.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34228 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: quell all warnings
19:45.02hippieindamakin8hey brlcad mafm
19:46.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34229 10/brlcad/trunk/include/vector.h: unbustage. the virtual destructors need to be defined somewhere even if they do nothing
19:47.34brlcadstarseeker: cool
19:47.35brlcadmaybe you can make that use a better container
19:48.09brlcadmaybe an stl container instead of a fixed array, preallocated to some large size but increasing in chunks for efficiency
19:48.48brlcadof if anything, some detection logic to make sure it doesn't crash at least -- abort gracefully if the index is out of range
19:48.57starseekernods
19:49.08brlcadright now, it's just wasting a bit of memory
19:59.07mafmhi hippieindamakin8
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20:09.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Jdoliner 07http://brlcad.org * r1417 10/wiki/User:Jdoliner: Added in timeline
20:16.53starseekerlooks like the most expensive part of the preprocessing is in brep_preprocess_trims lines 225 to 239
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20:37.41starseekeruhhh... correct me if I'm wrong, but is the current raytracing using brep_preprocess_trims for ANYTHING?
20:39.26brlcadyeah, during prep
20:39.37brlcadbrep_build_bvh()
20:40.12starseekeryeah, I know prep is being called, but I'm not seeing where it's using the generated information
20:41.47brlcadif i'm understanding brep_preprocess_trims() right, it's rather obscene implementation
20:42.43brlcadlooks like it's iterating over the bounding volume nodes, and for each bounding volume, seeing what geometry belongs in there by iterating over very loop's trimming curves
20:43.40brlcadah, not quite so
20:48.37brlcadnot sure what you meant though -- it fills in a set of "surface trees" during prep, calling brep_preprocess_trims() to set a few flags
20:48.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34230 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: remove minor dead code
20:51.15starseekerruns a little test...
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20:58.38CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34231 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: comment cleanup
21:09.59starseekeryeah, I thought so - commenting out lines 221 to 239 in brep.cpp inside brep_preprocess_trims has (so far) resulted in identical raytracing results for the nurbs_tests.g file (it'll take a little while to finish)
21:10.17dreeves2brlcad starseeker I noticed from some of the commits something about the approximation hack...I wouldn't spend to much time on that in the end state I want to get rid of that approximation altogether the getclosestpoint function isn't working is the only reason it is there I plan attempt to fix that method in opennurbs
21:11.27brlcaddreeves2: *nod*, he just had a stack trace, so it was easily fixed
21:11.35brlcadfrom a crash, of course
21:11.54dreeves2sure
21:12.01starseekerwas able to see that the d2 model doesn't seem to be trimming properly
21:12.08dreeves2:) I had up'd it to 10000 in mine
21:12.17dreeves2I didn't commit sorry about that
21:12.23starseekernp
21:12.56dreeves2Yeah did you see my comment earlier about dented sphere?
21:13.05starseekernods
21:13.26dreeves2yeah definitely something screwy going on there not quite sure where the issue is
21:13.56dreeves2I just had the bright idea to rt at a different angle the morning no time to investigate
21:14.35dreeves2You say it isn't trimming properly...How do you know trimming is the problem?
21:14.52starseekerwell, I guess that's fair - I'm not completely sure
21:15.00dreeves2oh ok
21:15.05starseekerI'll post an image in a couple minutes
21:15.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34232 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: no need to undef read/write
21:16.38dreeves2You know you can turn off trimming by commenting out the call to trim in the intersect function you will also have to check for odd intersections in the shoot function and just for now remove the last intersection otherwise the whole ray will be thrown away
21:17.30dreeves2Yeah I don't think trimming is the problem with dented sphere because I was seeing the problem before trimming
21:18.02starseekerhttp://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/d2.png
21:18.31dreeves2sweet you got something
21:18.52dreeves2bet if you do what I was saying you will see far more of the geometry
21:19.05starseekerturning off trimming?
21:19.11dreeves2correct
21:19.11starseekeryeah, I think I have that shot somewhere
21:19.40dreeves2did you make any progress on speeding up preping?
21:19.42starseekerI think this is without trimming: http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/openbook_d2.png
21:19.53starseekerdreeves2: sorta, but by hack and slash
21:20.09dreeves2did you do the odd intersection thing I was talking about?
21:20.18starseekerI'll commit in a second - it's a temporary fix but since that whole part of the code is funky it won't make much difference
21:23.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34233 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp:
21:23.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: Comment out this part of the preprocessing trims prep - it's not currently being
21:23.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: used in raytracing as far as I can tell and commenting it out reduces the
21:23.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: raytracing time on the OpenBook part d example from >20 minutes to just over 1
21:23.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: minute.
21:24.07starseekerthat may allow you to raytrace d2.g in something closer to reasonable time
21:24.27starseekerdreeves2: "odd intersection?"
21:24.31starseekerchecks archives
21:27.20dreeves2I can't remember if I left the code in there commented out but it is in the shot function just before the check for odd intersections.  If a ray comes back with an odd number of intersection shot will throw away the whole ray
21:28.21dreeves2you can just remove the last intersection point for rendering purposes it may be fine but obviously in the end we can do no such thing but just for now while we are trying to troubleshoot what is going on
21:28.41starseekerah
21:30.40dreeves2Then you grab your left foot then hop 10 times on your right while waving at someone and you may seem just a little less insane :)
21:31.22starseekerstarts a raytrace inside mged and goes to get more water
21:31.27starseekerheh
21:32.34starseekerI'm getting a LOT of "root diverged" errors
21:32.50starseekerthat could explain a lot, come to think of it
21:33.03starseekergetting 'em for all raytraces - even the box
21:33.55dreeves2Yeah that is because I'm returning the wrong thing from intersect meant to go back and look what I was suppose to set that to when I missed but forgot to that
21:36.14dreeves2I just grabbed something I'm not actually ever really detecting when the root diverged right now so I think it is safe to ignore those for the moment
21:36.49starseekernods
21:36.51dreeves2Yeah btw I'm not using the trim prep at all
21:37.17dreeves2we will probably do something different in the end
21:37.23starseekernods
21:37.36starseekerin the meantime, no point in killing our processing times for nada ;-)
21:37.55dreeves2that is amazing that is what was taking the bulk of the 20 mins
21:40.46dreeves2If we get everything working smoothly I definitely think there are some ways that we can prep trimming that will make trimming very fast
21:41.04dreeves2and it won't take that long to prep
21:44.54starseekernods
21:47.57dreeves2what ae are you rt?
21:48.29starseeker270 0
21:50.13starseekerthere we go:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/d2_270_0.png
21:50.47dreeves2is that with the odd check essentially disabled?
21:50.52starseekerno
21:50.54starseekerthat's default
21:51.26starseekeris surprised by the large positive result at the bottom - that should be empty
21:52.08starseekerhunts up the odd check
21:52.09dreeves2I don't follow?
21:53.19dreeves2I'm amazed we are getting something that looks that good considering the issue I found this morning
21:53.27starseekerheh - point
21:53.43starseekeryou're talking about the hits.erase code?
21:53.56starseekerit appears to be be commented out
21:54.07dreeves2yeah uncomment that then retry
21:54.11starseekerk
21:54.26dreeves2sorry don't mean to sound bossy
21:54.35starseekernp :-)
21:56.12dreeves2how long is taking to rt?
21:56.50starseekerfew minutes for a small image
21:57.19dreeves2Yeah I guess I'm not to worried about that right now
21:57.34starseekercorrect first, then fast :-)
21:57.43dreeves2amen
21:58.59dreeves2I am happy we are getting anything that resembles the shape at this point considering how complex that geometry is very motivating
21:59.34starseekerah, this may help
21:59.43dreeves2?
21:59.51starseekerwith the prep time down to something halfway managable, nirt can now be used
22:00.15starseekerwe can get entry and exit points for single rays
22:00.32dreeves2absolutely
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22:01.02dreeves2irc:cgi stinks
22:04.56dreeves2starseeker I'm heading to the house but the home computer is connected so if you get more results let me know I'm interested in what you see with the code uncommented
22:05.10starseekerk
22:05.14starseekerit's coming up now
22:05.22starseekersome differences, nothing really spectacular
22:05.42dreeves2ok well I will focus on the dented sphere
22:05.46starseekernods
22:05.58starseekeryes, that's the place to focus
22:06.10starseekerif we can't get those right openbook is surely out of reach :-)
22:06.22dreeves2nods
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23:39.40louipcooh nice pix
23:40.46Ralith^
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090416

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090416

00:00.51starseekerdreeves: here's the other screenshot with the uncommented code: http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/d2_270_0_2.png
00:02.10Ralithalso nice!
00:18.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34234 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/asc2g.c: renamed getline() to gettclblock()
00:24.48starseekerthese are somewhat interesting: http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/dented_sphere.png
00:24.58starseekerhttp://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/dented_sph_surf_norm.png
00:27.29Raliththat doesn't look dented so much as holed
00:27.54louipcblind hole
00:28.11louipcneeds isometric view
00:28.14starseekerIt does appear to represent a removal rather than a surface distortion
00:31.51starseekerthe surface normal coloring, however, should be fairly unambiguous
00:32.27starseekerif it were an outward distortion, I would expect the color gradient to run in the same general direction as that of the main sphere
00:38.09starseekeris beginning to think it might be useful to have the option to draw more complete wireframes for the nurb primitives, corresponding to their structure
00:38.37starseekerrelating a raytrace to the underlying surfaces, edges, etc just by numbers may be a bit tricky
00:42.38brlcadstarseeker: can you create two spheres that match the dented sphere perfectly?
00:42.59starseekerI can try
00:43.04starseekerone second
00:44.03brlcadwould be interesting to run pixdiff/pixcmp on the results if the original radii and position values are derivable
00:44.13starseekerhmm
00:44.24starseekernot easily, at least from the l output
00:45.05brlcadcan't believe he owes so much this year
00:45.20starseekerwinces
00:45.30starseekerdoing the late night post office thing? ;-)
00:45.46brlcadoh hell no, stopped that 5/6 years ago
00:45.56starseekeronline then?
00:45.59brlcade-file
00:46.02brlcadyeah
00:46.03starseekernods
00:46.10starseekerthat's how I did it too, except for VA
00:46.23brlcadused to do it all by hand, an all-day event, many forms, all the instructions and subforms
00:46.54starseekeryuck
00:47.00brlcaduntil one year it got so bad that I worked on them for about 20 hours non-stop (and I knew what I was doing!) and was still running up against the deadline
00:47.15starseekerdreeves: fwiw, I can confirm that the rebuilt sphere is manifesting as holes
00:47.30brlcadI had about two-hours till midnight (blen burnie office was open till midnight), went on-line
00:47.40brlcaddid the whole thing in less than half an hour
00:47.47Ralithodamn
00:47.54Raliththat must have been a little frustrating.
00:48.08brlcadit was more amazing
00:48.09Ralithafter 20 hours of work
00:48.39brlcadI was dubious that it'd be at all right with all the various forms I had (self-employed, depreciation tables, multiple sources of income, etc)
00:49.30brlcadsince it asked more in a wizard-style interface, asking lots of questions
00:50.08brlcadI was already 95% done on paper, so I actually had everything in front of me to verify and it all matched up nicely
00:50.16brlcadso never again after that
00:50.40brlcadthis year was hell though, even on-line ... for many reasons
00:51.18brlcadworst. tax-year. ever.  (for me)
00:52.44brlcadorders some comfort food
00:57.17starseekerfigures new house made things nice and complex...
00:57.28brlcadit did
00:57.41brlcadinsanely so
00:57.53brlcadespecially purchasing near the end of the year
00:58.00starseekerow
00:58.08yukonbobwhat about the cocaine and hookers from your rockstar lifestyle as a BRL-CAD developer?
00:58.17``Erikhehehe
00:58.38starseekerwould hire a CPA or something rather than deal with the headache of truly complex taxes...
00:58.46brlcadyukonbob: they're paid under the table, *shhh*
00:58.52yukonbobheh
00:58.53``Erikyes, we take private jets when we go out for lunch and all that, and wear leather pants
00:59.05yukonbobLOL leather pants
00:59.10yukonbobhawt
00:59.11yukonbob!
00:59.17``Erikyes, they are, a lot of chaffing
00:59.36starseekerscowls at rebuilt sphere
01:00.35starseekergonna need some way to know what we're raytracing within the nurb and how close it is to any edges/verticies/etc
01:02.34``Erikhm, since opennurbs has a container for a straight up brep surface, ya think the utah teapot might be a good geometry to experiment with?
01:02.52starseekercould be
01:03.01``Erikiirc, it's just 16 control points
01:03.51brlcadteapot isn't solid geometry
01:04.04``Erikwait, no, 28 patches in the original
01:04.14brlcadhandling non-solid ON_Brep objects hasn't been looked into
01:04.40``Erikah, okie, I figured it might be magically handled in the guts of opennurbs :) *shrug*
01:05.52starseekerthis is probably informative once it can be related to the nurbs surfaces:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/rebuilt_sphere_270_0.png
01:05.59brlcadsame surface intersection and trimming logic, but that all has to be handled up in the shot() routine
01:07.51hippieindamakin8silently observes.
01:08.08starseekerit's almost as if the surfaces are being rendered up to some maximum absolute x, y or z and then nothing
01:08.08brlcadnot so silent :)
01:08.16hippieindamakin8:P
01:09.15starseekerwill have to take a hard look at how the line renderings are done and see if edges can be incorporated as an option
01:09.53starseekerif those it would be helpful to be able to see the makeup of the surfaces
01:11.00starseekersuppose it can be compared with the complete sphere...
01:11.09starseekeralright, I'm getting out of here :-)
01:11.12starseekerbbl
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01:37.36dreevesstarseeker yes I confirmed last night it was holes.  BTW it is entirely possible to see dark spots with out the slow change in color.  I have seen cases where were on the edge of a surfaces and it calculates a normal perpendicular to the ray.  In order to confirm it wasn't that I checked every normal and when one was near perpendicular I reset to reverse the ray direction which will make the pixel light up  they didn't
01:39.34dreevesso obviously it was a hole which really surprised me because I wasn't getting errors for odd number of hit points.  If it missed on the front it should have hit on the other side and reported errors.  I isn't which means it isn't only missing the front but also the surface behind it
01:41.23dreevesthat is what drove me to rt from different ae when I noticed everything went to hell in a hand basket pdq.  Was some what encouraging though believe it or not because at least it isn't wasn't a tolerance problem.  Just dealing with something wrong.
01:44.59dreevesI don't think it is anything real serious because obviously we are able to calculate intersection and appear to that we somewhat understand the trim geometry.  BTW I can turn off trimming and still see the problem so this isn't trimming doing this.
01:47.35dreevesThe front side it is scary because it looks like an edge but I don't think it is because when I shot from the other angle a lot more was missing than an edge.  IMO something is going on with interpretation of the geometry that is causing the problem
01:48.03brlcaddreeves: note that the phong shader will automatically flip a backward-facing normal
01:48.37brlcadshould see "shade_inputs(object) flip N ..." messages if it does
01:50.33dreevesyeah I new that was the case but if it is near perpendicular and not perpendicular or more I was thinking it might not be flipping that
01:50.59dreeveseither was it is definitely a hole
01:51.15brlcadyeah, if it's just "nearly" perpendicular, it'll come back
01:51.37dreevesare you saying it will flip it?
01:51.39brlcadBN_VECT_ARE_PERP() is using the default tolerance
01:51.53brlcadif it's nearly perpendicular, it won't
01:52.03dreevesright that was my thinking
01:53.15dreevesThe delay in me working this isn't because I'm struggling I just got busy on the day job.  I'm actually pretty confident we can fix this pdq
01:53.47dreevesI was worried when I thought it was a tolerance issue but now that I know it isn't I feel better
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01:55.37brlcadnods
01:55.50brlcadthere are plenty of tolerance issues remaining, no worries there ;)
01:58.58dreevesnods :)
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03:58.04pacman87sorry about the join/part spam :(
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04:04.08poolioErr, did bzflag get klined?
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04:28.44PrezKennedylooks like it
04:28.52PrezKennedywhole bunch of you guys got dumped at once
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06:41.59dreevesso I'm having compile problems in librt can't find mirror.c??
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11:13.53d-lomernin all!
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11:20.10d-lohowdy there brlcad!
11:20.21brlcadhellos
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11:34.22mafmhi
11:34.55d-lohai mafm!
11:35.03brlcadd-lo: nice work commenting on the apps
11:35.20d-lopuffs out chest.
11:35.21d-lothanks!
11:35.35brlcadif any jumped out at you over the one that you're assigned to, mentors can still be swapped around
11:35.55brlcadtechnical mentoring is still group-based, but the mentor assigned does much of the logistic tracking
11:36.42d-loI was actually thinking about the GUI project.... might be a better fit for me.  If starseeker doesn't care of course.
11:37.16brlcadeveryone wants the gui :)
11:37.46d-loI don't think i could provide the proper level of mentoring for libpc, revolve/sweep, or BREP.
11:39.27brlcadremember that it's not so much the technical side, it's just being able to keep track of how much they've done
11:39.31brlcadhow active they've been
11:39.42d-loImporters, sure, but the hardcore math stuff I am not so strong with.
11:39.48brlcadhow much of what they said they were going to do did they actually finish
11:40.12d-lookay, thats as much as i figured.  Its the 'technical questions' that are sure to pop up ;)
11:40.26brlcadtechnical questions belong to the whole team
11:40.37brlcadthey should intentionally be out in the open
11:40.43d-lobut i suppose there is  a decent support network in place.
11:41.22brlcadfor example, there should be no private discussions -- no PMs on IRC to talk technical issues
11:41.29d-lopffft.  look at this. 'we can still swap mentors around'  but when i take him up on the offer, its 'Noooooooooooooo sir!'     ;)
11:41.36brlcadshould all be on this channel or on the wiki or on the devel mailing list
11:41.37d-loj/k
11:42.06brlcadnah, that's possible -- have to talk to cliff
11:42.33brlcadlibged connection is why you were added to the one you're on
11:42.46brlcadsince that relates to the GS a bit
11:42.52d-loits all good.  I am happy where I am at.
11:42.53brlcadbut the gui has a similar connection
11:43.11d-locan't shy away from new things *too* much
11:43.13brlcadand more importantly, gui should be using GS directly
11:43.39brlcadjust I don't expect it'll actually get that far over the summer
11:43.54d-lowell now, i just might have to crack the whip a bit ;)
11:43.58brlcadwould rather see the gui get to a solid framework state with no/little backend support
11:44.07brlcadhave it look good
11:44.12d-lo'what the 'ell is Google payin ya for boy?!'  :)
11:44.34d-loagreed
11:45.42d-lois there anyway to make Saunders wire in the gui to the existing build system vice cmake ?
11:46.57brlcadhow so?
11:47.15brlcadit alread is using cmake
11:47.24d-lohaven't looked at it in a while, but doesn't the the new gui, g3d, or whatever its called use cmake?
11:47.39mafmyes, it is
11:47.52d-lopoints to mafm. There he is!
11:47.56brlcadit works similar to the gs -- you build and install brl-cad, then it builds against the brl-cad libs in cmake
11:48.30d-lojust wondering if it would be cleaner to keep the build systems uniform, thats all.  pros/cons?
11:48.38brlcadhe actually updated it to use our pkg-config files too, so it finds the deps to link against nicely
11:48.48mafmI just didn't understand the Saunders, wire and vice words in your phrase :D
11:49.17brlcadd-lo: lemme know when you're done converting all of the main module build to cmake and we can talk about integration :)
11:49.54brlcadotherwise it could be an autotools based project, but we'd picked cmake because it's generally better for new code
11:50.52d-loah, kk.  So would it be 'better' to make rt^3 build via cmake since its techically all 'newer' code?
11:51.09brlcadyeah
11:51.43d-lostrokes his chin. Hrm....
11:51.58mafmisn't it yet?
11:52.11brlcadrt^3's build predates cmake being useful so it was mirrored off the main module
11:52.23mafmops :)
11:52.24brlcadmafm: not yet
11:52.54d-lowonders if a convert to cmake, now, would be better, rather than waiting till rt^3 gets more complex and cluttered...
11:53.28brlcadit would
11:53.54brlcadfurther it goes, the more entrenched and less beneficial a move
11:53.57mafmcoreInterface is small, shouldn't be much of a problem I guess, if not already
11:54.28d-logrumbles about just getting this blasted Work computer working with autotools...
11:54.44mafmogre & co. in src/other are using their own build systems (but called from cmake IIRC), I produced cmake for RBGui and Mocha that will be gone
11:55.08brlcadlike the main module -- the cost vs benefit just isnt there for us to convert the build to cmake because it's so well developed, complete, with lots of tuned behavior and options that would be very time-consuming to replicate and retest in cmake
11:55.37d-lonods at brlcad.
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11:55.48brlcadso autoconf isn't going away anytime soon :)
11:56.05brlcadwe'll just have two
11:56.30d-lotwo?  build systems?
11:56.34brlcadactually still works rather nicely to have distinctly separate barrier between the lib layers
11:57.13brlcadyeah, two build systems -- the core (brlcad) and then an overlay (rt^3)
11:57.33d-lokk, just making sure I understood what you typed =D
12:00.21d-loas for rt^3/src/ director structure, i am thinking of doing some re-organizing.  It kinda bugs me that there are several aspects of the project going on at the same time with little to no communications and people are putting things wherever they want (myself included)
12:01.45d-loand if the rt^3 dividing lines (GUI, GS, GE) are acceptable, I am thinking of re-org'ing the dirs a bit to represent that.
12:01.45d-loespecially if we end up with multiple GUIs
12:03.03mafmok for me, svn preserves history and everything, so no big disadvantages
12:03.59d-loI think daniel is the only other major worker bee in the rt3 module, so I might email him/use the devel mailing list.
12:04.15d-loof course, i might just re-org now and as permission later ;)
12:04.46brlcadyeah, those should definitely be three distinct "products" by themselves with GS dependent on GE, GUI dependent on GS, all three dependent on core
12:04.48d-loand thats just cause I dont know what is 'politically correct' in the OS world yet :)
12:05.12d-locore == common stuff
12:05.14brlcadre-org would be great, but it should be communicated
12:05.15d-lo-or-
12:05.22d-locore == brlcad module
12:05.25d-lo?
12:05.25brlcadbrlcad module
12:05.26d-lokk
12:05.58brlcadthey may have some common code, classes that are shared -- but I wouldn't plan for them having shared sublibs just yet
12:06.33brlcadas that common code probably just belongs down with GE if it is common
12:08.03brlcadshould e-mail daniel (or any dev) directly on dev matters, the mailing list communicates that openly much better
12:08.15brlcadit's a pretty small list, not like the discussion wanders off-topic into arguments
12:08.33d-loheh, 'down with GE'.... 80's rap song about General Electric...
12:09.41brlcadhow about proposing the overall reorg structure to the list, then work towards that structure incrementally
12:11.19d-lobrlcad:  working on an email right now.  I do not think that it will cause much of a 'wave in the water' to reorg src/ into src/guis/ src/gs/ src/ge src/common and src/other
12:11.31brlcador at least making the changes incrementally so that if an issue comes up, it's not mixed in with 100 other reorg changes
12:11.52d-lonods. Understood
12:12.24brlcadheh, I wouldn't plan on multiple guis until we have a distinct need
12:12.28d-loplus it will give a good history and allow people to make fun of me when i do something stupid =D
12:12.36brlcadhave enough work ahead to get one working well
12:12.49brlcadwhat is src/common?
12:13.25d-loplace to put code common to guis/ gs/ and ge/  (if it actually exists)
12:14.13brlcadbikeshed difference, but src/GUI, src/GS, src/GE (caps) would reflect their c++ nature well :)
12:14.23d-loi only thought that src/common might be useful since the guis may not want to include the entire libge
12:14.29brlcadah, that was my point earlier -- if it's actually common, it probably belongs in GE
12:15.56d-loyeah, i was thinking about that point, and i can't come up with anything that the GUIs would need that would be in GE... but I suppose we can work that issue when it arises
12:16.13d-lo'if' it comes up at all.
12:16.19brlcadyeah
12:16.25brlcadleave it out until needed
12:16.37d-loyou minimalist you.
12:16.55hippieindamakin8giggles
12:17.10brlcadthe various lib dirs in src/lib* were organized that same way you're suggesting before GE came on the scene
12:17.25brlcadthose libs collectively were the start of a GE themselves
12:17.44brlcadgeometry, image, network, numeric, raytrace, and utility (common) services
12:17.50d-lowell then, sounds like an easy mv command or two!
12:18.01d-lo;)
12:18.28brlcadmost everything daniel's done to date fits under that geometry category
12:18.53brlcadGS picked up that network category
12:19.08brlcad(so ge longer has it)
12:26.01d-loyour words speak true.  I had felt a disturbance in the rt3 module for some time, but couldn't put my finger on what it was....
12:26.03brlcadit shouldn't be too hard to get a consensus on the basic layout -- more just an issue of merging the right things together without losing any of the invested effort on the old or various new codes that have since kicked off
12:27.36brlcadthere's actually not much duplication as it is, just four people that have ignored what the previous coder left in place :)
12:28.02d-loare you refering to lib* dirs?
12:28.42brlcadfor the first guy, yeah
12:28.56brlcadthen the next guy ignored the lib dirs and what the second guy added
12:29.15brlcadthen the next guy ignored the lib dirs, what the second guy added, and the third guy, ... :)
12:29.22brlcadkinda funny, but classic
12:29.31brlcadmostly because it's a sandbox
12:29.52brlcadwasn't a pressing need to hardline the organization until recently
12:30.11brlcadso time to refactor!
12:32.07brlcadplus the switch in build systems made it even more tricky to merge them half-way through
12:32.17brlcadand is really the brunt of the work even now
12:32.54brlcadthe org itself isn't complicated or riddled with pitfalls (unless code is deleted)
12:33.03brlcadit's wiring up the build
13:17.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34235 10/rt^3/trunk/include/brlcad/common.h:
13:17.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: an exception with an error message similar to bu_bomb
13:17.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: The implementation/return value of std::exception::what() depends on the
13:17.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: compiler (it is not in the standard). That's why there is now a
13:17.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: BRLCAD::bad_alloc derived from std::bad_alloc which carries a hopefully useful
13:17.05CIA-28BRL-CAD: message.
13:20.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34236 10/rt^3/trunk/ (20 files in 2 dirs): the core interface now compiles under Linux too
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14:09.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r34237 10/rt^3/trunk/src/iBME/Makefile.am: Cleanup: removed a few straggling references to Boost libs
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14:21.28CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r34238 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/Makefile.am: Cleanup: removed Makefile.am that referred to outdated/removed 3rd party libs
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14:28.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r34239 10/rt^3/trunk/ (configure.ac src/other/uuid/ src/uuid/): moved src/uuid to src/other/uuid
14:31.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r34240 10/rt^3/trunk/src/ (GUI/ GUIs/): Refactored GUI to GUIs
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15:09.52brlcadwaves to elena
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15:17.23PrezKennedywaves to brlcad
15:17.31brlcadhowdy
15:17.35brlcaddigest all that meat yet?
15:17.38PrezKennedyyeah!
15:17.43PrezKennedyfinally
15:27.03``Erikuh, way tmi
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16:31.40jdolinerhave selections been announced publicly somewhere?
16:39.04pacman87jdoliner: official announcement is still the 20th, i believe
16:40.19pacman87although the topic disagrees with me
17:01.04jdolineryeah, this is what led to my confusion as well
17:01.09jdolinerhow many slots did yu guys get?
17:01.44brlcad5
17:02.15brlcadah right, topic .. the selections are pretty near final on the 15th, but we cannot announce until the 20th
17:03.09*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.6 posted (20090403) || GSoC2009 Next Step: selections are made, they will be announced (by Google) on the 20th
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17:20.20brlcadhowdy poolio
17:20.37poolioahoy!
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17:21.40hippieindamakin8hey brlcad , pacman87
17:21.51brlcadpoolio: how goes the semester?
17:21.58brlcadhowdy hippieindamakin8
17:22.08poolioI just was catching up on e-mail... are the mentor-student assignments all worked out?
17:22.16brlcadyeah
17:22.32brlcadunless you want an assignment, you're welcome to one
17:22.42brlcadreally shouldn't be assigned, for example
17:22.53pooliobrlcad: it's been good, but insanely busy. working two jobs and 7 classes :)
17:24.46pooliohmm, well it looks like the only project I could possibly be helpful on is the BREP on BREP one, and it looks like there's already someone who is not you on that. I'll definitely be idling around here over the summer and try to provide as much help as I can, maybe even finish up on some of that CSG -> BREP stuff now that I get it
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17:26.19brlcadpoolio: the assigned mentors are more for logistic tracking, not technical guidance -- technical is group-shared so you can help out with that one regardless
17:26.39brlcadalso, selections aren't announced, so hush on the projects :)
17:26.43brlcadbah
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17:27.01pooliowill do
17:27.19brlcadalso, selections aren't announced, so hush on the projects .. :)
17:29.31pooliooopsy daisy. sorry bout that... what I meant to say was if such a project were accepted into GSOC then ...
17:29.46brlcadheh
17:30.35brlcadit's okay, if folks were closely paying attention, it's pretty clear who at least 4 of the 5 are
17:31.13brlcadat least .. "in all likelihood"
17:31.39elena;)
17:34.18brlcadhm, I suppose our project priorities ( http://brlcad.org/BRL-CAD_Priorities.png ) conceivably narrows in a little too
17:34.27brlcadthough there are a couple outliers, hm, maybe not
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19:06.03dreevesbrlcad and starseeker shoot the dented sphere from the side with trimming definitely not dented
19:06.35dreevesSo maybe there still is some issues with trimming
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20:05.35CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34241 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Updates related to Archer's view-only mode.
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20:47.23jonored_...Well, I can get the principal curvatures for a point on a nurbs surface, but not the associated direction yet...
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090417

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090417

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01:02.21``Erikbakes dinner and watches futurama
01:30.56yukonbobafternoon, cadheads
01:41.17jonoredfinds the implementation of what he just derived in amongst the openNURBS code, and facepalms.
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02:56.14brlcadjonored: hehe
03:01.26brlcadthough have to actually look at the implementation -- some functions they define (and have implemented in their commercial API product), but don't actually have an implementation
03:07.59jonoredThe implementation looks about like what I was headed at.
03:12.39brlcadcool
03:13.03brlcadthat's frustrating but also releiving to find things like that
03:13.24brlcadlike working through a hard math problem, only to realize it's in the answer key in the back and you got it right
03:13.32jonoredON_EvPrincipalCurvatures in opennurbs_math.cpp - it looks plausible that it's doing what it should, I haven't checked for exact equivalence but it would be surprising.
03:14.28jonoredI've gotten a chunk more of an idea how to approach issues of applied differential geometry, at least :)
03:14.47jonored(er, would be surprising to have that much and not doing its job.)
03:35.16``Erikyowza, both daily show and colbert report are on a roll concerning the "teabaggers"
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07:21.22RalithSir Morrison
07:21.23Ralithhehe
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08:27.24_pseudoirc on my ipod!
08:27.42pacman87^^ that's me, btw
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08:30.16_pseudo_unstable app + unstable wireless
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09:14.11pacman87ssh + screen + irssi would be a much better solution
09:16.26archivistunstable wireless should be killed at birth
10:24.33d-loyawns.
10:24.39d-loMorning all!
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11:11.55d-lohahahaha:  http://www.rpgjunction.com/verizon_cheque.jpg-48.html
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11:51.54brlcada check for 0.002, funny
11:56.06archivistI like the cursor magnifier on that page
12:26.44brlcadgood answer
12:26.47brlcad(dave)
12:29.07d-lostill trying to get the hang of this Politically Correct talk ;)  But thanks.
12:38.10``Erikallows js for that page... yes, a reasonably neat trick
12:39.02``Erikwait, isn't randall monroe the guy who does xkcd?
12:39.56d-losure looks like it.
12:40.12archivista google sez yes
12:45.17d-lo``Erik: how many astros you got now?  15
12:48.18hippieindamakin8pacman87, some of the people i know run irssi on this small device called pogoplug using ssh+screen
12:48.27``Erik15 on epsi, 9 on fenix
12:48.47``Erikmy two new epsi astros are throwing up pringles and have no spaceports and eco's in the 70's
12:48.56``Erikplus a few dn's and some ft cloud over them
12:49.10``ErikNOT profitable targets :D
12:49.37d-loniceness.
12:50.09``Erikthis exercise needs to happen, I have two planets with empty production queues that can churn out levis
12:50.13d-lowas poking around on the epsi site last night and saw your 4K econ.  Nice :)
12:50.25d-lowhat excersize?
12:50.39``Erikum, the big gathering in 81 to go jack with anti
12:51.13``Erikafter thte slz crash, we got a nap with just about every 'superpower' we're not friends with heh, but anti has been hitting the newbs left and right
12:51.15d-loonly been back in the saddle for 2 days now. :)
12:54.09d-lowhen is the 81ex going to launch?
13:05.37brlcadso what level are you two up to?
13:05.58d-loas in player level?  54 i think.
13:06.59d-lobrlcad: you still playing?
13:07.09brlcadsorta
13:07.24brlcadi keep it going, slowly build up
13:08.15d-locool.  I got the impression that you quit out of bordom
13:08.52brlcadpretty well fortified now, fewer and fewer pot shots
13:09.19d-loguildless still working out for ya I see :)
13:09.25brlcadpretty well
13:09.42brlcadand a few guilds that protect me
13:14.01d-lo... how is the ogre library in rt^3 compiled?  I don't see how....
13:16.41d-lonm
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13:24.08``Erikpixie dust
13:24.21d-lojust about :)
13:24.22``ErikI've scrapped some big fleet in gate crashes, so I'm down to 50ish
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13:25.33``Erikthe game has become more of a combination of espionage against a possible future competitor and establishing a network of friends to sucker into seeding a new userbase for me
13:25.35``ErikO:-)
13:25.39``Erikpractices his evil laugh some
13:25.45starseekerjeez that was weird
13:25.56starseekerhas apparently been knocked off for 2 days
13:26.17starseekermutter...
13:26.23starseekerwhere do we stash the archives again?
13:27.04``Erikarchives of what?
13:27.09starseekerirc chats
13:27.51``Erikgoogle tells me http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/
13:28.27d-lo``Erik: are you saying that you have started work on your game?
13:28.29starseekerscowls at google for not telling him that
13:28.56``Erikplanning, coding toy apps to verify knowledge
13:29.07starseekerbookmarks it this time
13:37.23starseekerglares at the cat, who is mistaking the living room for a race track
13:37.46d-lobetter a racetrack than a litterbox!
13:39.09madant~help
13:39.14``Erikgive it a potato http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?video_id=nkHBuh21AMg
13:40.23archivistheh on the same trak as me ``Erik I just been watching that kitteh
13:40.48``Erikin ur intarwebz, steelin' ur branewavez
13:42.20brlcad~logs
13:42.21ibotAll conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged.
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15:09.40d-lod_rossberg: are you around?
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15:22.31d_rossbergd-lo: partial, i'm writing a reply to your brlcad-devel mail
15:22.45d-lokk, thats what I was going to ask about :)
16:18.16brlcadresponds, open to talk here or list in follow-up
16:18.56brlcadsounds like there's a disconnect about what the goals of the GS actually are
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16:29.13d_rossbergbrlcad: i looked at the GE header files in rt^3, they are different from what i did
16:29.35d_rossbergthey have even few in common from what i did in the core interfac
16:31.34d_rossbergmaybe GE should be defined more precisely before this can be decided finally
16:31.54d_rossberg(this was the conclusion of 1))
16:33.16brlcadd_rossberg: that GE files are very much a work-in-progress -- several of the classes there belong over in the GS, not the GE, for example
16:33.37d_rossbergthis could be the point
16:33.45brlcadall that is left is a few geometry object classes
16:33.55brlcadand that overlaps very much with what you've done
16:34.13brlcadyour classes are more in-line with the direction it still needs to go regardless
16:34.23d_rossbergand many of them are already in work (the object classes)
16:34.36brlcadyou mean in core?
16:36.41d_rossbergthe cone, torus etc. (8 pieces) are currently in work for the core interface
16:37.14brlcadmuch of what is presently in the GE dir was worked out primarily as a means to sort out what the GS needed to accomplish its task, some stubbed, some that needed to be in GS but was put into GE, it's not actually all been "sorted out" -- the emphasis was on the GS
16:37.44brlcadso it can (and necessarily will) change, quite a bit
16:38.13brlcadfrom a design goal perspective, though, what was done in jbrlcad and what you've done in core are what GE is supposed to envelop
16:38.49d_rossbergyou see, if i look at what i have (brlcad wiki, sources in rt^3) i have to come to the conclusion GE != coreInterface
16:39.03d_rossbergtherefore i will wait for the changes
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16:39.49d_rossberge.g. dave may show how he would like to see the coreInterface integrated into his concept of a GE
16:40.39d_rossbergon the other side, his top-down approach wasn't so bad
16:41.29d_rossbergmy impression was, the the GE is a concept of how a CAD interface should look like
16:42.06d_rossbergthen we may see how this concept can be realised with help of the core interface
16:42.24brlcadyeah, I think that's the biggest difference
16:42.35brlcadyou were coming at it bottom-up, he was top-down
16:43.07brlcadyour experience with LIBRT greatly influenced the bottom-up (and is probably why I like it so much)
16:43.17brlcadhis top-down was mostly driven by GS requirements
16:43.52brlcadthere's a middle ground in there somewhere I'm sure, and it's closer to LIBRT than it is to the GS..
16:45.25d_rossbergis away (for some minutes)
16:45.42brlcadI would like to (very LONG-term) end up with an API similar to Geomis/ACIS/Solidworks, etc, but not so much mirroring their API as using our libs and requirements and building up an API that allows apps to be written that utilize the GE (for writing viewers, CAD modelers, visualization apps, etc)
16:45.58brlcadtoo, must clean house
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17:46.53``Erikclean mine while you're at it
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18:53.15``Erikhttp://www.netzgesta.de/sphere/  heh, noscript makes it look pretty stupid though :)
18:54.25``ErikI do like that it has a fake "guru meditation" window that the js hides, that's nifty
18:55.17``Erikeck, license suckage, though
18:55.28d-loyeah saw that.
18:55.39d-lobut hey, hack hac hack.
18:57.22``Erikhm, 'onmousemove' is nifty, it's vrry fast on osX ff
19:05.21d-lo``Erik: email sent!
19:06.28``Erikw00t
19:08.43B_woosteris sorry for the spam
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19:58.13``Erikhas another lowhanging fruit idea for people new to BRL-CAD development and looking for a tiny project
19:58.46``Erikopendb -r myfile.g   for forcing a read-only open (even if the file permissions allow write)
19:59.44``Erik(and a read-only checkbox in the db open dialog)
20:09.13jonored_Is there somewhere I can grab a nurbs object to test this with? I can't seem to find the .g files for the test cases shown at http://brlcad.org/wiki/BREP_Primitive and would like to see whether I'm getting plausible curvatures out...
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20:56.18dreeves3jonored hang on I will tell you where you can get the .g file
20:57.20dreeves3http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/nurbs_test.g
20:57.30dreeves3jonored_^^^^^
20:58.07dreeves3open nurbs is giving good curvatures....What are you working on?
21:00.40brlcadnotes that should be http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/nurbs_tests.g
21:02.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1418 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */ link to the test geometry
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21:25.20jonored_dreeves2: Oh, did you already get rt_brep_curve done and just not have it in the repo?
21:26.49brlcadI think he just meant in general
21:27.03brlcadcurve() and norm() are still unimplemented afaik
21:32.15jonored_Actually, I'm pretty sure that the proper implementation of norm given the current implementation of shot /is/ an empty method. It looks (at least to me) that shot is filling it in already.
21:32.44brlcadshot does a guess based on the hit point and ray direction if the primitive did nothing
21:32.53brlcadif that's the right answer, the primitive should still do that work
21:38.02jonored_I mean that rt_brep_shot is setting hit_normal already - looks to me like it's getting the information as part of finding the point anyhow, so might as well keep it.
22:04.15brlcadhmm
22:04.22Ralithafternoon all
22:04.28Ralithhow goes, jonored_?
22:08.23jonored_Not bad. Heading out soon, though.
22:08.40starseekerooo - http://www.fabathome.org/wiki/index.php?title=Fab@Home:Model_1_Bill_of_Materials#Full_System_CAD_Files
22:10.05brlcadstarseeker: heh, interesting find
22:10.30starseekeradds it to his archive of open cad goodies
22:10.49starseekerwill need to get ahold of a working Solidworks to properly convert it though
22:10.54brlcadgood set of test cases if someone works on the sldprt converter
22:11.18brlcadah, they provide conversions already too
22:11.35brlcadfor at least one of them
22:12.12starseekernods
22:12.21starseekerI don't think that's the full model though
22:14.05brlcadwonders if starseeker would rather be mentoring a certain (unmentionable until the 20th) applicant that is presently assigned to me given his interest
22:14.12starseekerthe source code seems to be BSD licensed - not sure if that applies to the models...
22:14.15starseekerchecks
22:14.32starseekerah
22:14.44brlcadkinda right up your alley :)
22:14.44starseekeryeah, that might work
22:15.05brlcadrelated to GS priority too
22:15.17brlcad(loosely)
22:15.19starseekeris just a sucker for nice purty screenshots of sophisticated models in BRL-CAD ;-)
22:15.46starseekernot to mention the test case angle
22:16.24Ralithpretty pictures are always great fun.
22:16.36brlcadI think it would be awesome if you could just upload an unspecified file to a site and have it give you a sheet of information about it -- objects in the file, types, conversions to other formats, various automatic renderings
22:16.55Ralithmightn't that be a pretty big CPU load?
22:17.02RalithI suppose heavy use of nice would render that moot
22:17.02brlcadso queue it up
22:17.21RalithI'd just be concerned about scalability if it got popular
22:17.30starseekerbrlcad:  that only works for non-commercial formats though
22:17.40Ralithnot hard to distribute, though.
22:17.40starseekerproe/solidworks/etc. are a no-go
22:17.47brlcadstarseeker: not necessarily
22:17.51starseekerblinks
22:17.52brlcadexporting sure
22:17.56Ralithstarseeker: why? patents?
22:17.56brlcadbut not importing
22:18.06brlcadthat's just up to our ability to read/write them
22:18.06starseekerRalith: file format parsing
22:18.08jonored_Would look kind of like thingiverse.com but doing more?
22:18.20brlcadsldprt is a published spec iirc -- that's why it's on my list
22:18.31starseekeroh - solidworks part?
22:18.33brlcadsltprt/sldasm files are like iges
22:18.51brlcadcomplex support but easily parsed
22:18.56starseekernods
22:19.09brlcadsomeone motivated could probably whip something up in a really short amount of time
22:19.15starseekerI was sure Pro-E was a non-starter though?
22:19.44brlcadjonored_: interesting, hadn't heard of them
22:20.17brlcaddepends -- it is possible, but it'd take more development effort
22:20.28starseeker(actually, can't take credit for finding the fab@home models - emailed and asked ;-)
22:20.37brlcadthe converter we have wasn't made to be stand-alone -- it was made to be a pro/e plugin
22:20.56starseekerright
22:20.57brlcadbut the unigraphics converter, for example, was similarly designed but is stand-alone
22:21.23starseekereither way though, I'd have thought licensing restrictions would put the kabosh on wholesale conversions like that
22:21.30brlcadtheir libraries allow linkage and redistribution after you go through some horribly absurd locking/unlocking process
22:21.51starseekerblinks
22:22.36brlcadit's a lot easier to explain by going through the process but basically (at least for unigraphics/nx) you link up your exporter against their libraries and it works just fine for your licensed system
22:22.42brlcadbut it won't work anywhere else
22:22.52starseekerah
22:22.58brlcadthen there's another "unlock" step that you apply to your binary
22:23.15brlcadtakes about a half-hour (and has nothing to do with cpu time)
22:23.26brlcadthen that binary will work anywhere
22:23.37starseekerinteresting
22:23.54brlcadthat's how we used to distribute it .. and one we should get around to updating and getting working again next time someone needs to poke NX
22:26.25brlcadjonored_: yeah, looks sort of similar to thingiverse but little more focus on the models and model data itself and less/no focus on what it's used for
22:30.14brlcadwonders if that is a rails app
22:32.16jonored_doesn't know how they've got that set up, but it's associated with the reprap crowd.
22:32.28brlcadnods
22:32.52brlcadunderstandable, strong focus on rapid prototyping and machining
22:33.08brlcadcool, http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:249
22:33.42Ralithyeah, it's zach's
22:34.30starseekerhmm - stl
22:34.47Ralitheverything reprap is stl right now.
22:34.52Ralithkind of a shame
22:35.20Ralithin fact, it was reprap and the horrid lack of good CAD free tools that got me into CAD in the first place
22:35.27brlcadstarseeker: if you've not seen this .. contains most of the classics: http://www.lodbook.com/models/
22:36.06starseekeroo - thanks
22:36.18starseekerI'd see the stanford site with their models
22:36.34Ralithstanford seems to have a lot of small statuettes.
22:36.40brlcadyeah, but they also link to a bunch of other entire repositories of models
22:37.14brlcadRalith: they are one of the main powerhouses that kicked off most of the research on converting laser-scan data into 3D models
22:37.24Ralithcool
22:38.09brlcadyou can't go to siggraph without seeing a stanford bunny at least .. a few times
22:38.25starseekerhmm... not to many that sound like they're really "open source"
22:38.30Ralithyeah, I"ve seen that around
22:39.09starseeker's favorite visual from last year was a plastic bunny getting squeezed out of a press :-)
22:39.38hippieindamakin8brlcad, woah ...
22:39.42brlcadI'd like our model repository to specifically cater to unrestricted use copyleft style
22:39.56starseekerwould suggest we require it
22:39.56Ralithis someone applying to do that?
22:40.09brlcadstarseeker: absolutely -- it's just "how far"
22:40.16starseekerah, good poing
22:40.17starseekerer point
22:40.31starseekerdo my bidding, fingers!
22:40.51brlcade.g. whether to allow free for any use whatsover, exept commercial use, style licenses
22:41.01brlcadas that is most of the academic models
22:41.18starseekerthose are annoying, but quite common
22:41.31starseekerI would say have a distinct, non-commercial section
22:41.34starseekermake it clear up front
22:42.12Raliththat seems to invite the creation of all sorts of sections for various licenses
22:42.20Ralithnot a very clear place to draw a line.
22:42.25starseekerRalith: no, not really
22:42.38starseekersome sort of filtered search is the general solution
22:42.55Ralithwhy not just prominently display the license for each model, and leave it nice and general?
22:42.58starseekerbut the commercial/non-commercial use distinction is pretty common
22:42.59brlcadon the other extreme, whether to allow something akin to a "GPL" licensed model, or limit it only to LGPL/BSD/MIT/BY/BY-SA style licenses
22:43.27starseekerisn't even sure what GPL/LGPL really mean for CAD models
22:43.47brlcadRalith: mostly to avoid the problem of things like CGAL where all the best stuff is untouchable, and you have to hunt individually
22:44.08Ralithwouldn't a flexible search system as is par for the course these days suffice?
22:44.15brlcadstarseeker: the spirit of those license, there are "CC equivalents" to GPL
22:44.24starseekerno, you don't want to parade the non-commercial stuff
22:44.36starseekermake it available, but encourage the totally free licenses
22:44.47RalithI suppose isolating it would encourage people to license their stuff otherwise
22:44.52brlcadRalith: possibly, but still can end up with the issue of having all the best stuff be untouchable
22:45.07starseekerexactly
22:45.33Ralithhadn't considered that many models probably won't already have a license associated
22:45.48brlcadspecifically towards being a repository of freely unencumbered models that I know I can use
22:45.51Ralith(thus requiring the author to choose one in the context we present)
22:45.51starseekeropen source CAD models are pretty rare
22:46.03brlcadexceptionally rare
22:46.12Ralithhere's to hoping we can change that.
22:46.18starseekerso the time to start a trend is now :-)
22:46.21Ralith^^
22:46.42starseekerif a good body of freely available (commercial and non-commercial) models can be created and get most of the attention, that builds a momentum
22:47.18Ralithgood PR for brl-cad itself, too.
22:47.19hippieindamakin8ex: the model of the bussard reactor core
22:47.23starseekersort of the way the FSF built up the GPL - if OpenSolaris had appeared just when the GPL was getting started, the world would probably look rather different now
22:48.21Ralithhippieindamakin8: got a link for that?
22:48.23Ralithis curious
22:48.38brlcadalso to be clear, really don't want to get into the business of how people license their works -- just want the scope of the repository to be a well-defined useful resource -- "open source" CAD models
22:48.39Ralithyou mean the model that guy was working on?
22:48.50jonored_hippieindamakin8: I was thinking the same thing... a good drawing of the internals of a polywell would be shiny...
22:49.04starseekeryes, only concerned with licensing of cad models as a means to an end
22:49.16hippieindamakin8Ralith, yeah the one famulus is working on
22:49.20Ralithkk
22:49.39starseekerthe end being lots of good quality free models :-)
22:50.12starseekerhmm
22:50.21starseeker(the cat insists on being petted)
22:50.31Ralithcats do that.
22:50.46hippieindamakin8http://prometheusfusionperfection.wordpress.com/2009/04/16/fusor-core/
22:50.50hippieindamakin8Ralith, ^
22:50.53brlcadideally even scoping the site even further to distinguish or require that the models also be solid geometry, so that they are "real world" models
22:51.00Ralithhippieindamakin8: yeah, I remember that
22:51.46brlcadthings I could feed to a CNC or rapid prototyper or an analysis, compute weights/moments on, calculate volumes, etc
22:53.08Ralithoh yeah
22:53.11Ralithjonored_: how's the slicer doing?
22:53.41hippieindamakin8brlcad, i guess the repository can be integrated into drupal
22:53.58brlcadinto anything really
22:54.22jonored_Ralith: Most of the way cleaned up, but still taken a back seat to graduating.
22:55.05Ralithof course.  Looking forward to playing with it.
22:57.22Ralithbrlcad: did you have any further input on my milestones/timeline?
22:59.19brlcadRalith: not today :)
22:59.29Ralithkk
22:59.34brlcadis decompressing a little
22:59.50Raliththat's always nice.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090418

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090418

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01:45.33starseekerbrlcad: I agree, real world geometry is the way to go
01:53.28starseekerwonders if we can get the ProE files for this sucker: http://www.longnow.org/projects/clock/prototype1/
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04:21.58yukonbobhappy friday, cadheads
04:25.19pacman87good evening
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14:11.06``Erikblinks and looks at the microsoft access database sitting in rt^3
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14:46.38madantsearches for his mojo
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16:10.19brlcad``Erik: eh?
16:16.33``Erikrt^3/docs/BME.eap ?
16:17.51``Erikhmmm, that uml thingy dave uses must use access as the backend
16:27.21brlcadah
17:07.34starseekerew
17:09.08starseekermaybe http://argouml.tigris.org/ could work?
17:11.29*** join/#brlcad FAMULUS (n=mark@ool-ad028f27.dyn.optonline.net)
17:12.05FAMULUSwhat would cause an object which has been Blasted to the canvas to show in a raytrace, but not in wireframe?
17:26.00``Erikyou mean like an overlay vs underlay issue?
17:26.21FAMULUS``Erik: I can't see the object in wireframe view
17:26.27FAMULUSbut I can see it when I raytrace
17:26.45FAMULUSfeature or bug?
17:27.28``Erikum, I'm not quite sure what state your mged is in, if you raytrace and have it in overlay (I think?) mode, the wireframe will not show
17:27.39brlcadstarseeker: give it a go? only way to know would be to try it out
17:28.37brlcadFAMULUS: Settings -> Framebuffer -> turn off "Framebuffer Active"
17:28.52brlcadit's also a checkbox on the raytrace control panel
17:29.46starseekerbrlcad:  I'll ask him on Monday
17:30.14starseekerdoubt it can import the access database, but maybe he can export it somehow
17:30.25brlcadstarseeker: er, ask him what? :)  I know he tried out various tools, most that just crashed a lot on him
17:30.35brlcadthe only one that was mildly stable was the commercial one he's using now
17:30.48brlcadthere are renderings of those class diagrams
17:30.51starseekerask him to export the data from his commercial tool into some non-access form
17:30.59starseekernods
17:31.13brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/design/gs/
17:31.45starseekerpsd?
17:32.00brlcadphotoshop
17:32.06starseekerah
17:32.16brlcadgimp reads those iirc
17:32.39starseekerwonder why he stuck the access database into svn
17:32.55brlcadwhat erik said more than likely
17:33.03brlcadit just happens to be what the software uses on the backend
17:33.21starseekernods
17:33.36brlcadit is otherwise "just a binary file" that the software stores its data into, whatever the name of that software is
17:33.44brlcador even more, might just happen to use the same suffix
17:33.51brlcaddunno if he was reading the contents
17:33.58starseekerwell, if that's the only thing that works, I guess that's what we go with
17:34.16starseekeremerges argouml to see what it's like
17:34.18``Eriknotes that the extension there is .eap where access is technically .mdb, 'file' told me it was access and some googling shows that the 'jet database' is what access actually calls itself internally
17:34.44brlcadon a more interesting note .. :)  http://brlcad.org/tmp/tgcbug.rt
17:34.51``Erikimagines some company wrote a 'jet database' and ms bought it, now windows tools just use it as a convenient backend, like sqlite
17:35.19brlcadisolated a tgc failure in havoc that returns only one hit point -- good test case
17:37.44starseekerhmm
17:38.02``Erikthe aging 'new' bz is all updated again
17:38.04``ErikO.o
17:38.39brlcadwoot
17:38.57``Erikmost sarcastic woot ever? :D *duck*
17:39.04brlcadnope, good stuff
17:39.10brlcadgenuine wootage
17:39.16starseekerbrlcad: confirmed, returns a miss here too
17:39.19starseekerodd
17:39.33brlcadit's a funky tgc with a pinched top, but it's a clean shot
17:39.38``Erikmigration would equal w00tage :D hop to, boy :D *duck*
17:39.42brlcadright into the side and out the flat disc
17:40.35brlcadnirt seems to plot the right entry and exit values, so kind of odd
17:40.48brlcad``Erik: I did at least finally turn off the german server
17:41.05brlcadspent much of last week sorting that out
17:41.22brlcadthey didn't want to "let me go" giving hell about terms I never agreed to
17:41.32``Erikheh
17:41.47``Eriklame, as much as I like the notion of having a backup on another continent, it sounds like they were being dickish
17:41.57brlcadthey were, I was very surprised
17:42.11brlcadup until then, everything had been perfect/better with them
17:42.17``Erikdid the florida one agree to migrate your IP pool?
17:42.47``Eriklotr on tnt, btw, good background noise
17:42.53brlcadbut then they were royally being dicks when I asked to cancel .. and it was even originally just going to be temporary (until after bz is migrated, 6 months or so)
17:43.04brlcadthey haven't answered
17:44.20brlcadeven if I had agreed to an annual contract renewal (which I didn't), my message to them was 12 days before the end of term ..
17:44.30brlcadthey claimed it needed to be 14 days in advance
17:44.38brlcadwhich just made me even more livid
17:45.20brlcad6 e-mails later that just keep escalating, they finally agreed to my request
17:45.30brlcadvery absurd, disappointing
17:45.44``Erikhm, *shrug* they're probably feeling some economic crunch and have some pointy haired fuckwit that thinks forcing customers to stay is a viable business solution
17:46.31``Eriklots of service companies seem to try that :(
17:46.38brlcadit's not like I'm going to just keep paying them for the hell of it, especially after that
17:47.59brlcadespecially given that they had an interesting "we will terminate you instantly" clause if you put up porn
17:48.16brlcadI told them, do I *really* need to put up porn for you to get the point?
17:48.56``Erikheh, nothin' like a goatse or lemonparty to get someones attention O.o
17:49.06brlcadespecially given I didn't agree to the term and I was before the end of the term I didn't agree to anyways
17:49.24brlcadyeah, it was getting rather unpleasant
17:49.44brlcadso now I'm thinking about whether I'd ever go back to them
17:49.52brlcadshame really, it was just going to be temporary
17:50.01``Erikthere're still residual scars burnt into the back of my brain from when I saw a particularly ... 'hardcore' gay porn image iwth "verizon customer service" stashed in a humor pic site (I'm ok with nsfw, but this was not safe for human consumption)
17:50.09brlcadguess they don't realize how I throw money away at having servers on standby *cough*
17:50.32brlcadheh
17:50.45brlcadwhen it was heated, those thoughts were crossing my mind
17:50.46*** join/#brlcad dreeves (n=IceChat7@64.178.177.71)
17:51.13brlcadwouldn't have taken a whole lot to turn the site into "custom porn" for them with entire transcripts of our discussions
17:51.58``Erikhave you seen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRgNOyCnbqg ? :D
17:53.40``Erikaaanyays, the new machine seems solid. given that the old one provides many different services, it might be a good time to migrate some of the less critical or less connected ones over (like mebbe bind)
17:54.01``Erikthinks 'incremental migration' might be a good strategy
17:54.09``Erikuntil then, it's still my personal playpen I guess :D
17:58.33brlcadI fear migrating bind actually -- if you want to tackle that one, go for it
18:01.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34242 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/tgc/tgc.c: note that the units being displayed are in 'mm' regardless of the local units set.
18:02.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34243 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h:
18:02.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: allow a NULL parameter to be passed to RT_HIT_NORMAL if they don't have a normal
18:02.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: array to be filled in and just want hitp->hit_normal to be calculated. this
18:02.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: makes it pretty trivial to update code that used RT_HIT_NORM() over to
18:02.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: RT_HIT_NORMAL() by just adding a NULL and 0 flip value.
18:20.22*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@ip-207-145-38-45.iad.megapath.net)
18:20.49brlcadso for information purposes, I'm applying to the openusability call for projects
18:21.04brlcadthere's little chance we'll be accepted as the deadline was a couple days ago, but applying anyways
18:21.17brlcadbasically, it's similar to gsoc but specifically focused on usability
18:21.50brlcadand since usability is one of our biggest problems, I figure why not
18:21.59brlcad(unfortunately, I just heard about the effort)
18:22.24``Erikratemyui.com? O.o heh
18:22.26brlcadthat said, need to know who (of developers) would be willing to mentor a usability project?
18:22.29louipcthat's pretty cool
18:22.37``Erikuiornot.com?
18:22.41brlcad(if you have commit access, you qualify)
18:22.46louipcI want all my console apps to have a vi-like interface hehe
18:22.53brlcadlouipc: hehe
18:22.58``Erikvi ftw
18:23.10brlcadscratches two names off the list!
18:23.11brlcadj/k
18:24.10brlcadunlike gsoc, I don't think they'd actually be coding -- I think their tasks are specifically towards usability specifications, mockups, specific guideline formulations,  etc
18:24.33brlcadneed an okay to give them your e-mail if you're interested
18:25.26brlcadwas thinking perhaps starseeker and/or ``Erik and whomever else is interested
18:39.27PrezKennedyi want brlcad to be like emacs... some games and a mail app built right in
18:45.50brlcadI think we can make that happen
18:46.00brlcadeven with justification!
18:46.18brlcadgames for those down-time moments when they're waiting for a render or a conversion to complete
18:46.28brlcadmail app for .. discussing model changes, yeah
18:48.55brlcadstarseeker: ``Erik: how about it?  .. *crickets*?  :)
18:49.25archivistirc window?
18:49.33brlcadarchivist: hm?
18:49.55brlcadarchivist: you up for mentoring a usability project? :)
18:50.34archivistdunno /me never dun nuffink like that
18:51.05brlcadwould you like to do somefink like dat?
18:51.52archivistI would have a bias towards a Solidworks look alike :)
18:52.02brlcadthat would be fantastic
18:52.24brlcadactually, that's very good usability background to be able to talk about with the student
18:52.48louipcI didn't think solidworks was very usable
18:53.01archivistheh!
18:53.03louipcautocad was better I think
18:53.09archivisthell no
18:53.16brlcadthe point would be really to engage the student in a dialog
18:53.23brlcadbe able to relate it to what industry does
18:53.31brlcadand to how / why we do things
18:53.51brlcadand then (I gather) to figure out what we can best focus on or how we can best approach improving our usability
18:54.03brlcadsuch that it fulfills expectations, is intuitive, is familiar, etc
18:54.18brlcad(and productive, can't forget the most important aspect) :)
18:54.28brlcadlouipc: you interested?
18:54.58louipcmaybe if I have a partner :P
18:55.09brlcadyou're not exactly committing to anything firm just yet -- I just need to be able to give a list of potential mentors as part of our application
18:55.36louipcso I would just talk about what I find helps usability?
18:55.48brlcadI'd be glad to partner up there, I have a fair bit of usability training and experience (contrary to brl-cad's gui, heh)
18:56.13brlcadlouipc: you would be mentoring a student that would be working on some specific aspect of usability
18:56.49louipchah
18:56.49brlcadlike lets say, hypothetically, that they were going to look at ways of making mged's existing menu mess be less of a mess
18:57.17brlcador finding patterns in our 400+ commands and finding ways to make their command-line invocation more consistent and intuitive
18:58.27louipcYeah I would like to, but I don't want to lead anyone on about knowing more than I really do...
18:59.08louipcbrlcad: yeah that sounds alright
18:59.17brlcador maybe formulating a specific case study on the usability of a prescribed interaction scenario, like modeling a cup, and going into excrutiating detail on the various calculatable metrics to suggest changes that would improve efficiency
18:59.56louipcthat's a good one
19:00.08brlcadlouipc: your familiarity and mentoring ability more comes from your ability to speak to (or figure out) what brl-cad does, what CAD does/requires in general, and to explain that to someone who probably has absolutely no experience with CAD
19:00.16louipcI was kind of doing that at one point
19:00.48brlcadsounds like we have a winner then! .. would you PM me an e-mail?
19:01.08brlcadstill an outstanding question for archivist starseeker ``Erik ... and I'm sure more of you lurking here!
19:01.40brlcadusability is our biggest problem, this has huge impact potential
19:02.06archivistsure does
19:02.33archivistbeen trying and watching all sorts over the years
19:02.44PrezKennedybrlcad needs a ribbon :)
19:02.54louipcarchivist: I don't like how solidworks is so click-and-point dialog-box heaven :P
19:03.17archivistits faster once you are used to it
19:03.38brlcadPrezKennedy: are you saying you want to mentor too? :)
19:03.51archivistand on a cold day you can keep one hand in your pocket
19:03.51PrezKennedypoor kid would be ruined for life
19:04.50brlcadhumorously and coincedentally relevant: http://corsix.org/gsoc/ribbon.html
19:04.59louipcwell actually the point-and-click is more usable for novices
19:05.01PrezKennedybrlcad, am i even qualified to mentor anything? :p
19:05.32brlcadPrezKennedy: undoubtedly
19:08.27PrezKennedyscary, but it could be fun
19:14.00``Erik*readreadread*
19:14.37``ErikI have strange notions about usability, I kinda prefer mged -c to mged for the incredibly rare occasion when I can be assed to do it... O.o
19:15.00brlcad``Erik: so you could mentor someone specifically about command-line usability metrics
19:15.07louipc``Erik: I agree
19:15.11brlcadthey still propose what they're actually going to work on
19:15.13louipc:D
19:15.14brlcadsimilar to gsoc
19:15.40brlcadthinks brl-cad would be a formidable usability playground .. lots of ways to improve
19:16.45``Erik*shrug* whatever, I suppose
19:21.54*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14C548.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:23.18*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=500@resnet-46-40.dorm.utexas.edu)
19:23.36brlcad``Erik: cool
19:38.30PrezKennedydont forget to make it web 2.0!
19:38.58``Erikweb 7.14, yo
19:39.32PrezKennedyweb 3.11 for workgroups
19:40.09``Erikweb bob? O.o
19:40.09archivistobject oriented assembler rulz
19:41.17archivistsad thing is that did exist as a book Object oriented assembly language byL. Dirfman
19:41.31archivistworse...I have it
19:42.30``Erikit's called objc, right? :D
19:42.49``ErikC is the pdp11 assembler, right?
19:45.08archivistHigh Level Assembler :)
19:45.32archivistI shouldnt joks as that exists as well
19:46.57``Erikdang wussies and yoru labels and stuff *shakes cane* whatever happened to good old machine code monitors? :D
19:50.01*** join/#brlcad pacman87_ (n=pacman87@bz.bzflag.bz)
19:50.19*** join/#brlcad dreeves (n=dreeves@64.178.177.71)
20:15.43pacman87_ssh + screen + irssi + ipod touch ftw
20:22.37brlcadheh, where'd you get an ssh client from?
20:24.39pacman87app store
20:25.00brlcadhuh
20:25.31brlcadhaven't syncd my phone in few months.. probably should
20:31.25brlcadwhich app do you have? looks like there's at least 4
20:32.37brlcadjugaari looks like it might be worth it if it does all it says..
20:33.01pacman87_iSSH
20:33.22brlcader, jaadu
20:36.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34244 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (11 files in 4 dirs): remove all references and instances of the old deprecated RT_HIT_NORM() macro, instead using the new RT_HIT_NORMAL() macro.
20:37.57pacman87_i won the ipod in a coding competition
20:38.05pacman87_got 3rd
20:38.12brlcadhah, awesome
20:38.23pacman87_.2% away from 2nd
20:38.33brlcadwhat was 2nd's prize? :)
20:38.46pacman87_24in hdtv/monitor
20:38.47brlcadacm competition?
20:39.04pacman87_no, amd sponsored
20:39.11brlcadlemme guess, first was an amd laptop? :)
20:39.21pacman87_desktop
20:39.25brlcadah
20:39.33pacman87_plus tumer dard
20:39.38pacman87_card
20:39.46pacman87_quad core
20:40.14brlcadnice prizes
20:40.45brlcadthe touch is probably a more useful productive use of your time than an hdtv would have been :)
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20:41.21pacman87_probably
20:41.44pacman87_and my gf likes playing with it
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20:44.55*** part/#brlcad _pseudo (n=irchon@wireless-128-62-174-226.public.utexas.edu)
22:11.52``Erik/t 04:42PM <pacman87_> and my gf likes playing with it
22:11.55``ErikO:-)
22:13.39yukonbob"hey baby, wanna i-touch?"
22:14.12yukonbob"You mean an iPod Touch?"
22:14.15yukonbob"not exactly"
22:14.24pacman87_was wondering when someone would say something...
22:14.35yukonbobhi pacman87_ :)
22:14.45pacman87_howdy
22:18.00pacman87ping times to my ipod vary from 44ms to 1000
22:18.15pacman87or 15000
22:18.18pacman871500
22:20.09yukonbob?ping times
22:20.37pacman87ssh out, ping back in
22:21.06yukonbobah... /me forgot you said Touch, even after was joking about it. :P
22:21.57pacman87maybe i shouldn't port bzflag to it :P
22:23.08pacman87wifi access all over campus is very nice
22:23.23pacman87having the internet in my pocket :D
22:32.35brlcadpacman87: it was too easy ;)
22:33.25dreevesbrlcad are you aware that dented sphere is a revsurface?
22:33.28brlcadpacman87: didn't you hear my rant in the channel about the latency last year wrt ipod/iphone port of bzflag?
22:33.45brlcaddreeves: yeah, I vaguely recall that
22:33.45pacman87i must've missed that one
22:33.51pacman87~logs
22:33.52ibotAll conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged.
22:34.13brlcadnot so much a rant as several semi-extended discussions about why it'd kinda suck as a client :)
22:34.28pacman87yeah, every other packet took really long
22:34.34pacman87and ended up out of order
22:34.43brlcadeven if you could buffer up and stabilize the networking, the cpu is a bit of a problem being somewhat weak
22:34.50brlcadand being fully-interruptible
22:34.57pacman87radar-only!
22:35.03brlcadthe OS steals time from everything including itself at times..
22:35.35brlcadeven when your app is running, especially if you make a system call
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22:37.32pacman87i don't suppose there's an easy to search the online logs
22:37.40brlcadnah, it sucks
22:37.47brlcadbut I basically just gave you the abridged version
22:38.08pacman87k
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22:54.13hippieindamakin8good morning/ good afternoon folks
22:55.38hippieindamakin8woah ipod/iphone port of bzflag : cool
23:53.59starseekerdreeves: how is it revolved?  around the center of the dent?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090419

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090419

01:29.26*** join/#brlcad jonored (n=jonored@pool-72-74-125-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net)
01:58.38Ralithhippieindamakin8: really? awesome!
01:58.51Raliththat's what simple graphics does for you
02:00.20Ralithor apparently not.
02:00.22Ralithah well.
02:00.27hippieindamakin8Ralith, hey
02:00.32Ralithsup
02:00.54hippieindamakin8nothing man preparing for my end semester exams which are set to begin in exactly 24 hrs :)
02:01.32hippieindamakin8Ralith, " didn't you hear my rant in the channel about the latency last year wrt ipod/iphone port of bzflag?"
02:01.47hippieindamakin8from this i got that there exists one.
02:01.51Ralith15:35:40 <@brlcad> not so much a rant as several semi-extended discussions about why it'd kinda suck as a client :)
02:02.02Ralithcontext ftw :P
02:02.06hippieindamakin8:)
02:13.29pacman87_is there a way to remap the f# keys to pgup/pgdn?
02:13.43Ralithxmodmap?
02:13.51Ralithwhy do you want to do that
02:14.24pacman87_bc my ipod doesnt have pgup/dn
02:14.53Ralithnobody knows how to remap keys on your ipod
02:21.24pacman87_no, im sshing
02:22.17pacman87_and i want to change the keymap in bash
02:22.54pacman87_so when i send F7 it acts like pgup
03:02.29*** join/#brlcad jonored_ (n=jonored@LAZARUS2.WIFI.WPI.EDU)
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03:24.53dreevesstarseeker I think I may be on to something as to the source of the problem
04:22.58dreevesstarseeker I believe that it is essentially 2 spheres that are independently revolved and trimmed
05:04.39dreevesstarseeker here is what I think the issue is with the nurbs_test.g, the initial guess is not good
05:05.29dreevesI came to that conclusion because both dented_sphere and rebuilt_sphere had similar problems but they are 2 different types of surfaces
05:05.51dreevesmeaning they were 2 different evaluators
05:06.52dreevesI have made an adjustment to opennurbs_ext that should give us a better guess
05:07.15dreevesIt would have appeared to worked but it has made things alot slower
05:08.29dreevesI have tested the rebuilt sphere so far and it looks good once that finishes I will rerun dented sphere then the rest of the test cases (I already spot check dented sphere and it looked good)
05:51.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded a new version of "[[Image:Brep Rebuilt Sphere.png]]"
06:03.05*** join/#brlcad pacman87_ (n=pacman87@bz.bzflag.bz)
07:35.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded a new version of "[[Image:Brep Dented Sphere.png]]"
07:38.57*** join/#brlcad madant_ (n=d@117.196.143.27)
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14:45.51brlcaddreeves: heh, cool
14:46.03brlcadone freaking pixel
14:47.47brlcadawesome though .. suspect the sphere will be filled..
14:53.40dreevesthanks brlcad
14:54.03dreevesprogress
14:54.30dreevesso the main issue seems to be the initial guess
14:56.49dreevesof course the more impressive improvement is rebuilt sphere...if you didn't notice the one before the big improvement then you might not realize the big improvement
14:57.35dreevesbrlcad what pixel are you talking about ?
15:02.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03ddreeves70 * r34245 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: tweak to improve initial guess but this is going to make things much slower. I think there is probably better way to get an initial guess.
15:09.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded a new version of "[[Image:Brep Sph Cyl 2.png]]"
15:15.14starseekerdreeves: impressive!
15:16.40brlcaddreeves: there's one-pixel acne
15:16.44brlcadon the bottom
15:20.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34246 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/table.c: tcl isn't directly used
15:39.46dreevesyou guys have great eyes :)
15:56.46dreevesok out of the nurbs_tests.g file looks like I still have some work to do on distorted sphere.  Also I think we are going to really need to think about the initial guess algorithm before we can handle the more generalized geometry
16:09.28*** join/#brlcad madant (n=d@117.196.128.187)
16:10.12dreevesyou know the more I think about it maybe it isn't initial guess that was the problem.  It may have been more that the surface subdivision was actually dividing the curve up "wrong" and the part of the surface that was being considered wasn't the part of the surface we needed to look at.  maybe what we need to do for now is get rid of the bvh until we get all the intersection and trimming stuff worked out.
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17:31.28CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34247 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/mirror.c librt/primitives/mirror.c): push the unitize of the mirror dir up into librt
17:39.57*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
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18:15.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded a new version of "[[Image:Brep Ellipsoid.png]]"
18:21.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34248 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db5_scan.c: cleanup
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18:48.32FAMULUSbrlcad: thing it would be possible / easy to use amazon's new mapreduce API to speedup g-stl in a hacky brute force way?
18:48.49FAMULUSthink it ^
18:50.05brlcadno less work than making it work with multiple cpus
18:50.30brlcadno less work than making it do something better than O(n^3), maybe O(nlogn)
18:53.05brlcadthe real quick hackish way would be to comment out the one-liner that is taking up most of the time in the bot primitive
18:53.29brlcadif you comment out the line that says nmg_fix_normals, it will probably run much much faster
18:55.09FAMULUSbrlcad: good info thanks
18:56.05brlcadlet me know how that goes if you give it a try
19:01.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34249 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
19:01.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: push the reading and writing down from rt_mirror into ged_mirror. rt's API
19:01.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: shouldn't generally be performing name lookups for specific actions, instead
19:01.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: working on objects already in memory (rt_db_internals) so that you don't need a
19:01.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: .g to perform an action. modified the signature of rt_mirror to return the
19:01.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: modified rt_db_internal instead of a directory pointer.
19:07.34*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@210.212.55.3)
19:26.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34250 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ (g-stl.c stl-g.c): holy molie, tons of inconsistencies and styles mixed together. remove k&r, cleanup and ws.
19:30.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34251 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ (Makefile.am g-stl.c stl/ stl/g-stl.c stl/stl-g.c stl-g.c): move the stl sources into their own stl subdirectory
19:33.05CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34252 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ (g-stl.1 stl/g-stl.1 stl/stl-g.1 stl-g.1): forgot the manpages, move em
19:37.38CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34253 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ (14 files in 2 dirs): move the asc tools (asc2g, g2asc, asc2pix, pix2asc) into an asc/ dir
19:39.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34254 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ (10 files in 2 dirs): move the tankill converters into a tankill subdir
19:44.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34255 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ (20 files in 2 dirs): move the (dubious natured) nmg 'converters' (namely asc-nmg, g-nmg, nmg-bot, nmg-rib, and nmg-sgp) into their own 'nmg' subdir
19:48.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34256 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ (16 files in 2 dirs): move the ancient euclid converters into a euclid subdir
19:50.20``Erikhm
19:51.14``Eriklame, svn up interprets move as a normal cvs del/add
19:54.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34257 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac src/conv/3dm/Makefile.am src/conv/Makefile.am): de-recursify the src/conv/3dm subdir, pushing the logic up into src/conv so we can do better at parallel builds
19:58.17``Erikhrm http://www.betaversion.org/~stefano/linotype/page/4/  "why programmers suck at css design"
20:11.54hippieindamakin8waves at brlcad ``Erik madant_ pacman87 Ralith
20:13.00pacman87waves back
20:13.32hippieindamakin8gets back to the exam preparation
20:13.56``Erikgood luck on your exams :)
20:14.13hippieindamakin8``Erik, thanks
20:14.29brlcadso erik, you going to work on the website? :)
20:14.38brlcadneeds a facelift
20:15.18``Erikheh, uhhhh, actually, I was thinkin' about cooking a couple of my own websites and hiring a designer to come up with the graphics and css
20:15.25``Erikhas people, but they ain't free
20:16.08``Erik"hungry enough to eat the butthole out of a skunk" wtf am I watching this movie? O.o
20:16.48brlcadprobably the same reason you feel compelled to "catch up" on collegehumor.com
20:17.01``Erikwell, to be fair, I'm coding while watching it
20:17.09``Erik:D
20:17.12brlcadthat's not fair to the code
20:17.22``Erikshoulda put it on mythbusters instead, though
20:17.37``Erik"larry the cable guy - health inspector" O.o
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21:22.48``Erikwonders how good/bad the new star trek flick will be
21:23.35yukonbobwonders how good/bad the new Cowboy Bebop film will be.
21:34.43``Erikthe live action thing?
21:34.50``Erikit's got keanu reeves, so, uh... not :D
21:34.59``ErikI mean, spike going "dude, like, y'know? totally!"
21:40.54``Erikbut if someone does get a hair up their butt to do some website work, http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/grids/builder/ might be handy O.o
21:43.08``Erikhare?
21:43.09``ErikO.o
22:14.36yukonbobya -- /me thinks Johnny Depp would have been better Spike
22:15.01yukonbobwell... pretty much anybody other than Keannu
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22:24.52``Eriklike, morpheus, are you totally serious? *retarded headcock*
23:18.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34258 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 7 dirs): de-recursify comgeom, dxf, jack, off, and patch (leaving iges and intaval due to their relative complexity) in order to simplify and help speed up parallel builds
23:20.54dreevesstarseeker or brlcad do you have or know where we can get some simple examples that use linecurve(s) and arccurve(s) and planesurface(s)
23:22.57dreevesof course the curve(s) are for the trim curves
23:30.10brlcadsrc/other/openNURBS/example_write writes out a (single) ON_PlaneSurface
23:30.35brlcadcould merge that in with breplicator or try to trace it directly
23:31.02brlcaduses linecurve trims
23:32.37brlcadthat same example also writes out arccruves, but they're simple freestanding curves
23:34.09dreevesso will form a solid?  otherwords paired hit points?
23:35.11dreevesdoes the breplicator write out linecurve and arccurve in it's current state?
23:41.08dreevesis breplicator basically a rectangle
23:41.43brlcadno, that's what I meant -- you could use the example, modify breplicator
23:41.51brlcadthe proc-db's are purely for testing purposes
23:42.09brlcadthere are three tools in there that basically just generate a specific test case
23:42.27brlcadthough they're probably all pretty similar end-results atm
23:43.12brlcadcould remove one of the faces from breplicator and stitch in a trimmed planesurface
23:43.31dreevesOk yeah maybe I will work on generating some simple examples to test out things out with some types of objects that we haven't dealt with yet
23:43.55dreevesThe things I listed are what's in d2.g that we haven't dealt with yet
23:45.23dreevesYou know the other thing is we aren't really dealing with distorted sphere very good at all but to be honest I don't really know what to expect there.  The plot is blowing up on it as well.  Makes me wonder if there isn't something wrong with the geometry
23:53.48brlcadthose test cases came straight out of rhino, so they should be 'real'
23:54.23brlcadshoulda got dave to take screenshots of what they looked like
23:54.51brlcador maybe I write an exporter/extractor and see what they look like..
23:55.08brlcadstill fights with mirror() in the meantime
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090420

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090420

00:26.58*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-244.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
00:27.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34259 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/mirror.c librt/primitives/mirror.c): this is wrong -- librt should ONLY work with base units. libged or application responsibility to be aware of units and convert accordingly. push it up into ged_mirror().
00:27.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34260 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_inmem.c: indent
00:29.06CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34261 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/CMakeLists.txt: mirror.c and table.c were moved
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01:50.13dreevesbrlcad starseekerI think I'm going to have to troubleshoot the surface subdivision algorithm in the bvh stuff because it is what was causing the problems with dented sphere, rebuilt sphere, etc..  however I can't just turn it off because it is used for the initial guess.
01:51.29dreevesI mean to say I'm going to have to do that before moving on to the bigger geometries because I'm seeing similar issues that I saw with the less complex geometries
01:52.55dreevesalso probably need to go ahead and get the more generalized trimming stuff working because on larger trim curves my approximations may not be sufficient
02:03.05starseekerdreeves: sounds good
02:03.32starseekerthe larger examples aren't of serious interest until we can handle the simper cases - they are intended as "stress tests"
02:07.34dreevesyeah starseeker I think we are pretty close to handling the simpler cases ok now except for the distorted sphere fine (but I'm not sure about that one period) I think if physically make those examples bigger the raytracer will start showing the problems again
02:09.20dreevesI think we have to generalize for the simpler cases and make it alot more robust before tackling the more complex examples I was wanting to wait but I think I'm seeing the problem with that approach so I will have to take a step back
02:09.23brlcadgets a nifty response from the openusability folks
02:09.50brlcadstarseeker: were you interested in that?  (did you see my messages on friday?)
02:10.22brlcaddreeves: hmm, pulling it back to some of the more basic aspects of the problem... that sounds very familiar :-)
02:13.30starseekerbrlcad: I did see that, but my thought on it is that we're not quite ready for usability work yet...
02:14.26brlcadthere's many places and many ways where usability can be improved
02:14.30brlcadwe're not just talking about mged
02:14.34starseekerah
02:14.38brlcadthough even mged could use some basic attention
02:14.44brlcador archer for that matter
02:14.45starseekerwould the others generate interest?
02:14.55starseekerisn't familiar with openusability... googles...
02:15.14brlcadwouldn't it be nice if someone specifically paying attention to usability sorted out exactly how the menu system should be arranged?
02:15.32starseekeryes, it would be
02:15.36brlcador basic key bindings for that matter
02:15.42brlcador information panels
02:15.45brlcador command line options
02:15.45starseekerwhat are the mentoring requirements?
02:15.57dreevesWell the 2 basic issues right now are 1) the approximation of the trim curve right now it is hardwired for 100 segments.  On a smaller curve that means a segment may represent something like 0.03 or less in length but on a larger curve that may represent some like 5 or xxx in length which obviously that gets to be a problem.  I just need to get away from the approximation approach altogether.  The second issue is the subdividing the surface and surroundi
02:15.57dreevesng the segment of surface with a bounding box and the current algorithm grows by some small percentage to account for curving near the edges well on smaller geometry that fudging maybe sufficient but on larger geometries that fudging is not near enough
02:16.19starseekerfigures key bindings will need to be configurable to Solidworks/Pro-E/Unigraphics to allow work flows to be preserved
02:16.44brlcadsure, that might be one thing -- but what should our defaults be?
02:16.53starseekernods
02:17.09starseekeryeah, that sounds good - I take it you got a positive response?
02:17.48brlcadI certainly have my notions and background in usability and biases towards tools I've learned, but that's still different from specifically and intently sitting down as a project and sorting out what those defaults should be -- takes time
02:18.55brlcadunknown about whether we can participate this year, but that's not even really the main focus I think -- just getting ourselves aligned to be thinking more about usability and prepared to mentor such projects will be good
02:19.03brlcadso even if we can't participate this year, perhaps next year
02:19.30starseekersure
02:19.39starseekerwhat specifically do you need me to do?
02:19.46starseekerscrolls back...
02:19.48dreevesI think once we have generalized those 2 issues we can handle the bigger and more complex geometries
02:19.48brlcadthe mentoring requirements are more towards being the experts in our domain (CAD, solid modeling) so that we can have a useful dialog
02:20.03starseekerdreeves: sounds good
02:20.30brlcadas they are students that likely have no background in our area or even necessarily software design for that matter -- they get students that focus specifically on usability
02:20.48dreevesso I'm not really pulling back just going back and generalizing the stuff I have hardwired up to this point
02:21.20brlcaddreeves: it was tounge-in-cheek, not critique :)
02:21.43dreevesOh you didn't offend me and I definitely took it that way
02:21.56brlcadgeneralizing what's in place is a form of "going back", and going back is the approach I'd started down on a while back
02:22.18starseekerbrlcad: yeah, I'd certainly be willing to work as mentor on a project like that
02:22.58brlcadstarseeker: great, I figured you would be
02:23.00dreevesYeah the main reason for what I wrote is mainly if anyone else wanted to work on this more than anything I just want people to know what needs to be worked
02:23.31dreevesi.e. starseeker
02:23.48dreevesand I know there are a couple of people looking at things
02:23.50starseekerdreeves: I'm going to be attacking from the "need debugging/analysis capabilities" side, which should be orthogonal to the thrust of your work
02:23.53dreevesassociated with brep
02:24.05dreevescoole
02:24.07dreevescool
02:24.49brlcadwoot! looks like my rt_mirror() change works...
02:24.51brlcadwhy does bob have to make it so complicated sometimes :)
02:24.54starseekeronce we get to more complex geometries, we're likely to hit test cases where it's really hard to get a minimal case (possibly even problems specifically caused by a case being complex)
02:25.05starseekerbrlcad: lol!
02:25.13starseekerhas wondered this...
02:25.53dreevesDid that other person ever respond what they were doing with curvature the other day?
02:26.03brlcadseriously, he had the math doing flips because he wanted to specify a point (sure) and a direction (okay) .. and a distance down that vector (um)
02:26.20brlcadand then tracking that distance all the way through to librt to the primitives themselves for a couple of them
02:26.36starseekerwinces
02:26.37brlcadI mean really.. just move the point
02:27.06dreeves:)
02:27.19brlcadnow the trick will be to rewire all the primitives to actually use a plane_t instead of a point+dir
02:28.45dreevesok so he wasn't really trouble shooting a perceived problem with opennurbs
02:28.53brlcadwhich is a nice compact plane equation -- a vector and a distance, 4 values -- but changes things .. probably just derive the point and dir
02:29.09starseekernods
02:29.32starseekerdreeves: no, Bob is doing libged (prime mover thereof, actually)
02:30.13dreevesok I'm talking about something else
02:30.46starseekerheh - welcome to irc - multi-threading conversations
02:31.04dreevesyeah I'm learning I'm new to irc
02:32.33dreevesit is basically chatting and I have done plenty of that but usually one on one
02:33.28brlcaddreeves: they (jonored) was working on implementing the curve() callback
02:34.48brlcadhe'd noticed that the normal was being filled in during shot(), so norm() perhaps can stay pretty simple (need to verify what others are doing) .. but that still leaves curve()
02:36.03brlcadbriefly mentioned on the 17th if you have logs
02:38.23starseeker~logs
02:38.23ibotAll conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged.
02:39.28brlcadreally need to get website irc log integration with drupal working so we can search our own content
02:41.03brlcadeven a cron job that snatches from ibot and adds to cms would be better
02:56.18dreevesok the website with the logs is neat
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02:58.00dreevesbtw shot isn't calculating the normal it is being calculated from what is returned from opennurbs in the intersect function
03:03.49brlcader, but that happens during shot() right? :)
03:04.09dreevesyeah if you mean it is being called from shot?
03:04.18dreeveswhich it is
03:05.05brlcadright, that's all that mattered
03:05.11dreevesoh ok
03:05.21brlcadit's filling in the hit_normal
03:05.28brlcadnormally shot isn't responsible for doing that
03:05.36dreevesobviously I didn't understand something
03:05.45dreevesah ok
03:06.41dreevesmakes since then
03:06.46brlcadalso normal != curvature, don't know if you were thinking that or not
03:07.26dreevesno I know that
03:07.57brlcadk
03:08.12dreevesgoes back to look at exactly what is being returned
03:10.52brlcadprobably shouldn't be filling in hit_normal the more I think about it
03:11.01brlcadat least, norm() really shouldn't be empty
03:11.21brlcadI think what some of the other primtivies do that have the information calculated early is to stash it into vpriv
03:11.37dreevesactually it is returning the derivative in both s and t and normal is being calculated from that
03:12.04brlcadyeah, then probably shouldn't do that .. just stash the derivs
03:12.12brlcadthen norm() can do the final calculation
03:13.25dreevesok in the next round of clean up I can do that unless the other person is working on that.  Don't want to step on what they are doing.
03:16.28dreevesI'm definitely ready to harden what we have now vs keep tweeking/hacking to make work with the different geometries.  I think that is what is required to take the next big step.  What do you think?
03:18.32dreevesyou know since I went back to utah's combination of tolerances I haven't had to touch them again.  Of course that is with this test geometry that is all roughly the same overall size
03:23.19brlcaddreeves: yeah, I'd just let them work on that part -- it's not exactly busted as it is
03:23.37brlcadit's much lower-hanging fruit (norm() at least, curve() could be interesting)
03:24.27brlcadif I remember utah's paper, all of their geometry was pretty small :)
03:24.48brlcadelaine mentioned that it wasn't very robust.. :)
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03:28.19brlcadof course it was a pretty general comment at the time, but hinted at their specific effort
03:28.41dreevesYeah it would be good to have the test geometry scaled up
03:29.27dreevesdo you know where nurbs_tests.g came from?
03:33.19brlcadyes
03:33.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34262 10/brlcad/trunk/include/vmath.h: note that unlike much of the rest of vmath.h, the input and output vectors cannot be the same since it's a macro and the values aren't stored/copied for efficiency.
03:33.31dreevesI'm currently raytracing the perfume bottle from the opennurbs example data it is relatively pretty large compared to the test geometry I'm seeing issues but not sure which is the problem.  tolerances or the subdivision or maybe even trimming
03:33.58brlcadthey were created in rhino
03:34.40dreevesyes
03:34.49dreevesoh the nurbs_test was?
03:34.54brlcadyes
03:35.05brlcadthose objects were all directly created in rhino
03:35.11dreevesoh ok
03:35.32dreevescan you get trial versions of rhino?
03:35.48dreeveswill have to investigate that
03:35.51brlcadsince we actually use rhino's format (3dm) as our serialized object data, it just imports directly
03:37.16brlcadthey do have evaluation copies
03:38.02dreevesI may have to grab it create some more test geometry
03:38.03brlcadthe only limitation is that they've forever been windows-only
03:38.36dreevesthat is fine I have a windows laptop to
03:38.38brlcadthat's something we could probably do pretty easily
03:39.02brlcadmore exhaustive test geometry
03:39.03dreevesI wouldn't mind if someone else wanted to do that
03:39.34brlcadyeah, that should be pretty simple
03:39.49dreevesYeah same geometries scaled up and make additional geometries that make use of all the different types of curves and use of the planar surface
03:39.51brlcadI can see if I can get my seat set up tomorrow
03:40.00dreevesawesome
03:40.08dreevesthat will save me significant time
03:40.20dreevessince I have no clue how to use rhino
03:40.24brlcadthe only problem with the different curve types is that rhino doesn't expose much of that through the gui
03:40.41brlcadthey simplify it way down and do things automagically as they see fit
03:41.05brlcadbut shouldn't be too hard to try to coerce a few trimming types
03:41.29dreevesyeah I figured as much
03:41.54dreevesreally that is probably the way it should be but would be nice if they had an expert mode where you could limit that
03:42.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34263 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
03:42.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: remove the mirror_pt 'distance' parameter from rt_mirror() as it just
03:42.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: unnecessarily complicates the interface. point+dir are sufficient. testing
03:42.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: seems to indicate no change in functionality so hopefully we're 'good to go'
03:43.25dreevesyeah d2 is difficult to get anything useful from it other ability to scale
03:43.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34264 10/brlcad/trunk/include/vmath.h: vectors, not points
03:44.13dreevesobviously we want in the end to be able to handle that one but I think there probably is a couple more test cases that need to be worked before we tackle that one
03:48.11brlcadthinks the recent effort and successes warrant a posting
03:48.27dreevesok one more request on the test geometry one object that has some large components with small components attached i.e. with the attached i.e. some like an ellipsoid with blended tubes attached such that the tubes are wider at the bottom and get more narrow as they go up but not a cone
03:50.37dreevesalmost like one of those balls that have the little rubber spines attached all over it (except the test geometry can just have maybe less than 10 attached at random places)
03:52.01brlcadone kush ball coming up :)
03:52.43dreevesthanks
03:52.53dreeves:)
03:58.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Brep Perfume Bottle.png]]"
04:00.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1424 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */
04:17.22starseekerdreeves, brlcad - I'll see if I can throw together some more example geometry - i've got a working rhino copy
04:18.03starseekerdoesn't have a clue how to use it either, but sufficient random clicking should produce some thing
04:18.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34265 10/brlcad/trunk/ (12 files in 11 dirs):
04:18.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: modify mirror's argument handling to make -p be for point and -o be for offset
04:18.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: instead of (confusingly) implying 'scalar point value' and 'origin'
04:18.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: respectively. update the various docs and test cases as found while we're at it
04:18.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: including fixing some really out-of-date old docs. FIXME: really stupid that
04:18.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: command help is in more than one place in the tcl sources.
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04:41.25rbfish2khello
04:41.46brlcadhello rbfish2k !
04:41.52rbfish2ki am new here.
04:42.09brlcadi've got to run but there's generally always someone around -- just have to post a message and wait
04:42.18brlcadwelcome!
04:42.27rbfish2kthanks
04:42.30rbfish2kcya
04:42.38brlcadheh
04:43.04starseekerwell, you tried :-)
04:43.21brlcadhe's the guy from the list
04:50.58hippieindamakin8hello guys
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07:29.03mafmhi
07:31.03pacman87_hi mafm et al
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10:51.41brlcadmorning to the d-lo
11:09.15d-loword to the brlcad!
11:21.12Ralithto the bed
11:21.42Ralithoh hey brlcad
11:21.45Ralithwhen do we find out who got in?
11:22.19Ralithoh wait
11:22.23Ralith12 *noon*
11:22.49Ralithhopefully awaits!
11:25.26starseekerd-lo: did you ever take a look at argouml?  is it any good?
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11:28.11d-lonope, didn't try it out.
11:29.56d-loneat, its got an online version via jnlp... neat!
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13:01.25starseekerblinks - Oracle bought Sun
13:02.13*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@210.212.55.3)
13:02.24Axman6yah
13:02.27Axman6:(
13:02.52Axman6i was kind of hoping it's be Apple (though i knew it'd never happen), mainly because i wanted my next computer to be an UltraSPARC
13:05.28starseekerdearly hopes they don't mess with the open source stuff
13:10.16starseekerthat's the part that concerns me the most - Oracle isn't a very visible player in the open source sphere
13:11.13starseekerif they decide openoffice, java, mysql and solaris don't need to worry about being open any more... ouch.  They could be forked, but especially in java's case not very effectively
13:11.57starseeker<snort> Oracle's website is "too busy to handle request" for the press release
13:12.12starseekerwell, that's at least one area they could clearly use Sun's help ;-)
13:21.43Axman6heh, yes indeed :)
13:24.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34266 10/brlcad/trunk/include/config_win.h: drand48() MS Visual C++ replacement
13:26.35CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34267 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/BrlcadCore.def: two additional bu_vls functions to export
13:29.13``Erikhm, oracle buys sun
13:29.36``Erikthe announcement page on oracles site gave me an 'unable to connect to database' error
13:29.41``Eriknifty. shoulda taken a screenshot
13:30.17``Erikaxman: you can always buy an old sun... :)
13:30.45Axman6with a T2? i don't think so :(
13:31.19``Erikah, heh, why a t2? you could get a IIe or IIi pretty cheap
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13:33.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34268 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp:
13:33.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: test list for non-emptiness to prevent crash on MS Windows
13:33.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: (one should not increment an iterator pointing to a containers end() element)
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13:36.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34269 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ (8 files in 7 dirs): reorganized CMake files
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13:46.47hippieindamakin8``Erik, error connecting to the db .. lol
13:59.42``Erikheheh http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/3133
14:02.05d-lolol @LISP aaahahahahahahaha.
14:02.45d-loLISP: She is an aging beatnik, who lives in a rural commune with her hippie cousins SMALLTALK and FORTH.
14:06.40Axman6``Erik: there's been some recent work on getting haskell to perform really well on the T2 by someone at my uni, which was sponsored by sun, who also donated a T2 for the work, and i'd love to play with the massive amounts of parallelism you can get on one
14:07.43starseekerd-lo: ah, but that beatnik is also a zen coding kung-fu master ;-)  And like most such masters, he lives in humble, isolated circumstances :-P
14:08.41starseekersaddles up and heads out
14:09.20d-lostarseeker: yeah, if thats what you need to believe :)  Anyways, the whole 'hippie' comment is where I am deriving my chuckles from hehehehe.
14:13.34starseekeractually, some of the comp.lang.lisp denziens are a rather commercial business friendly bunch
14:13.50starseekeractively resent open source
14:14.11starseekerclaim it destroys markets and jobs
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14:36.57``Erikwould argue that 'commercial business friendly' and 'open source' are orthogenal; plenty of open source commercial businesses and proprietary non-commercial efforts
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16:22.51madant~help
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17:17.33hippieindamakin8waits for the results of gsoc to be announced
17:35.36Ralith``Erik: indeed; it's mostly just the *way* business is done that OSS threatens.
17:36.14Ralithalso, nice oracle error ^^
17:37.06hippieindamakin8Ralith, i seemed to miss out on the OSS thingy what is that ?
17:37.17Ralith07:38:37  * ``Erik would argue that 'commercial business friendly' and 'open source' are orthogenal; plenty of open source commercial businesses and
17:37.20Ralith<PROTECTED>
17:37.26Ralithugh, irssi linebreak fail.
17:37.37hippieindamakin8aah :)
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17:53.38hippieindamakin8hey madant
17:57.48pacman87_i still haven't found a good way to scroll in irssi
17:58.01d-lopgup pgdown work for me...
17:58.24pacman87_those af
17:58.43pacman87_arent on my kb
18:00.01pacman87_i was trying to figure a way to remap some function keys
18:01.07hippieindamakin8yeah pgup and pgdown work for me too
18:01.51pacman87my ipod touch keyboard doesn't have pgup/pgdn
18:02.05pacman87i'm ssh'd into a server, and running irssi in screen
18:02.39hippieindamakin8aah :)
18:04.21hippieindamakin8pacman87, cant u just remap the keys on the server ?
18:04.47pacman87how?  i tried messing with inputrc, but couldn't find any docs on the command syntax
18:06.34hippieindamakin8i forgot the file .. let me check i had to modify it when installing this OS
18:08.22pacman87thanks
18:10.22hippieindamakin8pacman87,  it is .xmodmap
18:10.40pacman87i though that only worked in X?
18:11.49hippieindamakin8oops :)
18:18.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34270 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/Makefile.am: missing the patch-g.h header from dist
18:21.28hippieindamakin8pacman87, which OS are u using ? shouldnt there be a keytable config of the keytable daemon
18:23.03pacman87freeBSD
18:26.40hippieindamakin8pacman87, "This one is allready in /etc/inputrc and only needs to be "uncommented":
18:26.40hippieindamakin8# alternate mappings for "page up" and "page down" to search the history
18:26.40hippieindamakin8"\e[5~": history-search-backward
18:26.40hippieindamakin8"\e[6~": history-search-forward"
18:27.02pacman87_i found that
18:27.14hippieindamakin8:P
18:27.32pacman87_it maps pgup/dn to something else
18:27.54pacman87_instead of something to pgup/dn
18:30.10pacman87i know the "\e*" codes for the function keys
18:31.33pacman87"\e[18~" and "\e[19~" for F7 and F8
18:31.40hippieindamakin8yeah
18:32.08pacman87"\e[18~":page-up
18:32.08pacman87"\e[19~":page-down
18:32.19pacman87that's currently in my .inputrc
18:32.45pacman87but i was guessing on the "page-up" and "page-down" commands
18:32.46hippieindamakin8but true that i couldnt find anywhere to remap the pg up/dn keys
18:33.36pacman87"\e[17~":"F6"
18:33.36pacman87^ that one works, print out the string when i press F6
18:48.05pacman8713 minutes...
18:54.04brlcadwell, want to thank all of the applicants beforehand regardless of the results
18:54.19hippieindamakin8:)
18:54.58brlcadin the end, it was pretty tough decision for several applicants that were all pretty competitive with each other
18:55.40brlcadI know it's certainly starts out as a summer job since you have to put food in the mouth, but open source is about volunteerism
18:56.21brlcadhope everyone continues to stay involved and contribute, regardless of the selections
18:56.30hippieindamakin8sure
19:06.43Ralithpacman87: try "\e[18~":"\e[5~"
19:07.46Raliththose look like POSIX escape sequences, so sending one to the terminal might work as desired.
19:11.52hippieindamakin8pacman87, madant Ralith : congrats
19:14.42Ralithhippieindamakin8: I got in? :D
19:14.50Ralithis trying to check the site but keeps getting server errors
19:15.08starseekerhmm - they seem a bit overwhelmed...
19:15.09hippieindamakin8Ralith, whats ur name ?
19:15.10starseekerah
19:15.24Ralithhippieindamakin8: Ben
19:15.28hippieindamakin8saunders ?
19:15.32Ralithyup
19:15.38hippieindamakin8yeah u are through :)
19:15.41Ralith:D:D:D
19:15.45Ralithjoy!
19:16.45*** join/#brlcad jonored (n=jonored@dsl092-076-134.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
19:16.53hippieindamakin81. madant 2. pacman87 3. Ralith 4. Elena 5.joe
19:17.18Ralithbrb, celebrating
19:17.49Ralithty for the notify
19:18.09hippieindamakin8Ralith, :)
19:18.14madantwoke up in the middle of the night to find this going on
19:18.34madantwell 48 minutes past 12 :P
19:19.03madantyippppeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :)
19:19.23madantpacman87: congrats man :)
19:19.36madanthippieindamakin8: thanks a lot dude :)
19:20.01madantRalith: :) welcome to gsoc ;) you'd be awesome
19:20.06Ralithty ^^
19:21.10madantand congrats to us too :) +1 slot ;)
19:21.24madantd-lo: :) be gentle with me :)
19:22.03hippieindamakin8madant, that statement sounded extremely funny (slapstick) in my head :P
19:22.20d-loSLAVE!  BRING ME COFFEE!!!!! j/k
19:22.28madantbrlcad: let's hope this year is more awesome than last one :D
19:22.34Ralithd-lo: that'd be quite a feat of shipping
19:22.56madanthippieindamakin8: my grey cells are still half asleep :D
19:23.24Ralithmanages to load his projects page
19:23.25hippieindamakin8madant, get back to your sleep man :) sleep peacefully
19:23.49madant:D damn brlcad still hasn't changed the sleep factoid
19:24.26madanthippieindamakin8: when do the exams begin ?
19:24.50hippieindamakin8madant, they have already started dude. done with one of them 5 left
19:25.55madantwe should have had elena and jdoliner out here too :)
19:27.00brlcadd-lo: hehe
19:27.24madantah the man himself :)
19:27.53d-loWelcome aboard all!
19:28.06brlcadmadant: it's a passing requirement, no?  each year *must* be more awesome
19:28.06d-lohands out mops and buckets.
19:28.08brlcadelse FAIL
19:28.15madantwonders how awesome MoRe is going to be :)
19:28.32brlcadwe juuust miight not call it "MoRe" ..
19:28.33madantquickly picks up the mop and bucket :D
19:28.49d-lowell, it will obviously be more awesome.
19:29.14``ErikMOAR.brlcad.org ?
19:29.24madantd-lo: damn.. it is tough going to be cheating :D
19:29.30starseekerfavors models.brlcad.org
19:29.31``Eriki can has more geometryburgers?
19:30.26brlcadno, but you can has cheez
19:30.27madantseconds starseeker
19:30.32starseekergeometryburgers?  is this some unit I am not familiar with?  "I have 3 geometryburgers worth of models in this repository"
19:31.11madanthippieindamakin8: all the best for ur exams dude..
19:31.12brlcadis inclined to separate it from the brlcad.org domain altogether to let it have self-identity
19:31.16d-lostarseeker: 3.14 geometryburgers = 0.125 metric ass tonnes.
19:31.22hippieindamakin8madant, thanks :)
19:31.32starseekerd-lo: aahhh, of course
19:31.33``Erikmmmm apple pi
19:32.03brlcadhippieindamakin8: yeah, good luck!
19:32.17d-lowill vote for models.brlcad.org only if Megan Fox is involved.
19:32.27brlcadheh
19:33.21hippieindamakin8brlcad, thanks :)
19:33.30madantbrlcad: any stats up yet ? total number of projects/students ? at least they were true to the larger "student peer group per project" :)
19:33.33hippieindamakin8Megan Fox eh ? :P
19:33.47jonoredthinks that the reprap and thingiverse should both expose at least some dublin core metadata, so that we can aggregate the two and future similar sites sensibly...
19:34.07jonored...er... wrong project. the brlcad database, not the reprap... wrong project I want to work on.
19:35.26*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.6 posted (20090403) || Congratulations to D.Thomas, E.Bautu, J.Doliner, T.Ruitenbeek, and B.Saunders! || GSoC2009 Next Step: do the checklist(!), introduce yourself, meet the mentors, finalize milestones
19:36.19*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.6 posted (20090403) || Congratulations to D.Thomas, E.Bautu, J.Doliner, T.Ruitenbeek, and B.Saunders! || GSoC2009 Next Step: do the checklist(!), introduce yourself, meet the mentors, finalize milestones -- coding begins May 23rd
19:38.19*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-76-57.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
19:42.49madantjdoliner: let me be the first to congratulate you :D
19:44.12jdolinerthanks madant
19:44.19pacman87_is there a wiki page up yet to list the 2009 projects?
19:44.19jdolinerI'm very excited to working with all of you
19:44.46jdolineri'm looking for one right now
19:44.47pacman87_congrats all
19:45.06madantpacman87_: don't think so.. :)
19:45.20madantpacman87_: i meant no page ofcourse :D
19:46.28pacman87_it'd be good toput names, nicks, and projects together
19:47.08madantinteresting :) http://socghop.appspot.com/org/home/google/gsoc2009/systers
19:47.24madantwhen do we have a similar misters org :D
19:49.58d-loMysters?  no thanks.  might as well paint the letters rainbow and include My Little Pony icons!
19:49.59brlcadpacman87_: yes, the 2009 page is there ready to be populated .. been ready since application time ;)
19:51.12*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
19:53.13d-lomadant:  actually, there already is a community of men involved in computing.  Check it out as it is the largest collection of computer geeks in the world:  http://www.worldofwarcraft.com
19:53.29pacman87_<PROTECTED>
19:53.31madantd-lo: :P
19:53.39mafmwho's clifford yap? starseeker?
19:53.51hippieindamakin8madant, yeah
19:53.59hippieindamakin8* mafm
19:54.08``Eriksome programmer wannabe, he doesn't have face fuzz, so he's not a real programmer yet
19:54.09``Erik:D
19:54.13madanthowdy mafm :)
19:54.14d-lomust be feelin frisky because i just saw a potential "He's your daddy" joke...
19:55.14mafmcongrats to all applicants, specially to the selected one
19:55.17mafmones*
19:55.47mafmI also observed that brlcad sacrifice himself and chose the girl as pupil... neat trick :P
19:55.59madant:P neeeet
19:56.02brlcadthe mentors aren't set
19:56.04hippieindamakin8:P
19:56.14mafmhttp://socghop.appspot.com/org/home/google/gsoc2009/brlcad -- here it is
19:56.19brlcadi just can't get in to change anything
19:56.30mafmby what nick goes Joe Doliner?
19:56.39``Erikjdoliner
19:56.41brlcadprobably jdoliner  :)
19:56.48brlcadhe's tricky that way
19:56.49``Erikreal creative one there ;>
19:56.53madantargh some people type way too fast
19:58.32pacman87_it's ok, i type slow
19:58.53pacman87_itouch kb
19:59.30brlcad~seen elena
19:59.33ibotelena <n=ebautu@89.136.118.141> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 4d 2h 27m 54s ago, saying: ';)'.
19:59.49brlcadhm, that doesn't seem right
20:00.03brlcad~seen ebautu
20:00.04iboti haven't seen 'ebautu', brlcad
20:00.22madantnice last words.. er smileys nevertheless :D
20:00.55*** join/#brlcad andax (n=andax__@d213-102-41-158.cust.tele2.ch)
20:03.02mafmlol, ok
20:03.09mafmI thought that it might be hippieindamakin8 or something
20:03.18hippieindamakin8mafm, no :)
20:03.27mafmhippieindamakin8: didn't get selected?
20:03.41hippieindamakin8no man
20:04.26hippieindamakin8mafm, not this year too :)
20:04.38mafmsorry :(
20:05.13hippieindamakin8unfortunately this is the last year i am eligible for the gsoc unless i get through gradschool admissions next year after working for an year
20:06.19mafmwell, you'd better to to Bangalore and get the big bucks!
20:07.41``Erikeligible as a student, ya mean... :D
20:07.44hippieindamakin8mafm, bangalore hasnt got big bucks anymore thanks to recession :)
20:08.04hippieindamakin8``Erik, yeah . But i ll be arnd from now on
20:08.22``Erikghah, parser error, unhandled condition, aborting
20:08.48hippieindamakin8mafm, moving to Pune rt now. (waiting for a confirmation from a university in Sweden too)
20:11.38madanthippieindamakin8: what in pune ?
20:12.06hippieindamakin8joining a firm called tetrahedrix
20:12.25madantrecollects pune has India's tallest climbing wall
20:13.10hippieindamakin8is it ? naice
20:14.38madanthippieindamakin8: sweden sounds exotic ;)
20:14.56mafmhippieindamakin8: where's "Pune rt"?
20:15.10mafmah, in india
20:15.14hippieindamakin8:P lets see. they dont have projects now .
20:15.17madantor as my prof said when i told him about wanting to do an internship in Ghana.."ah.. ghana, well how erotic..er. i mean exotic"
20:15.44hippieindamakin8mafm, it is near bombay / mumbai
20:15.49hippieindamakin8madant, lol
20:16.56brlcadmadant: doesn't nepal have the world's tallest climbing wall?  right next door to india ;)
20:17.30madanthahaha.. :) indeed.. but climbing everest is more a matter of money these days.. :D
20:18.13madantwould suck at traditional climbing big time :) too much equipment to carry
20:21.11madanthttp://adventure.nationalgeographic.com/2008/09/yosemite/midnight-lightning-photosynth
20:24.20brlcadso the next step is to make sure those timelines/milestones look good -- everyone needs to make sure their project is up on the wiki
20:24.33brlcadi'll fill in the 2009 page with links soon enough
20:25.14madantshould get back his "little piece of death" to sober up.
20:28.24brlcadheh
20:40.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03r_weiss * r34271 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/table.c: enable partial 'l' support for pnts primitive
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21:22.18brlcadwoot
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22:15.02``Erikwiggles his toes
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22:16.53``Erik"it was made for elvis, but he found it tacky"
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23:10.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03r_weiss * r34272 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pnts/pnts.c: for pnts primitive, added full 'l' command support
23:17.50jdolineris anyone here william bowman in real life?
23:18.27``Erikno, he's more of a mail list guy
23:19.22jdolinerah, I see
23:19.51jdolinerI can't seem to find his email anywhere
23:19.55Ralithjdoliner: I'm william bowman in my imagination!
23:20.34jdolinerwonderful, then in you imagination I'm your apprentice
23:20.44jdolinerpleased to meet you
23:21.07jdolinerI guess I'll just introduce myself on the mailing list and have him email me back
23:21.33``Erikralith: you don't have the massive goatee or the cigar, you can't be him :D
23:21.42Ralith:[
23:22.05Ralithhe sounds awesome
23:22.59``Erikhe's a character O.o (I share an office with him)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090421

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090421

00:05.29*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@210.212.55.3)
00:31.07starseekeremerges from his first deep dive into the guts of the brep code - wow there's a lot to soak in here
00:32.22starseekerbrlcad:  Is it a reasonable strategy for surface "wireframe" visualization of nurbs surfaces to randomly sample uv space points and plot points on the real-space coordinates?  kinda a "point cloud" for the nurb surface?
00:33.06starseekermaybe not as a normal viewing mode but for debugging it would be handy
00:33.26starseekere.g. the rebuilt sphere
00:35.07starseekeris eying EvPoint for this purpose, once he figures out how to get the uv domain in which to sample...
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00:41.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Pacman87 07http://brlcad.org * r1425 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009: Updated with accepted proposals
00:41.39pacman87i'm assuming that's the right page for that
00:42.11pacman87madant, jdoliner, et al: feel free to add details
00:42.16pacman87http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009
00:53.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Jdoliner 07http://brlcad.org * r1426 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009: /* Hybrid Representation through BREP on BREP CSG */
00:54.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Jdoliner 07http://brlcad.org * r1427 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009: /* Hybrid Representation through BREP on BREP CSG */
00:54.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Jdoliner 07http://brlcad.org * r1428 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009: /* Hybrid Representation through BREP on BREP CSG */
00:55.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Jdoliner 07http://brlcad.org * r1429 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009: /* Hybrid Representation through BREP on BREP CSG */
01:00.17brlcadpacman87: yep, thanks!
01:01.31Ralithhuh, could have sworn my mentor was starseeker this morning.
01:03.20brlcadjdoliner, Ralith, madant, pacman87 -- please do keep in mind a few things: 1) conversations should be public, 2) mentoring should similarly be public especially technical discussions, and 3) your listed mentor is predominantly for logistically tracking your progress
01:04.15pacman87Ralith: are you Benjamin Saunders?
01:04.24brlcadi.e., they're not your "go-to" person for technical discussions -- those really should be open forums (here and/or irc) where any/other devs can at least listen in
01:04.30Ralithpacman87: yup.
01:04.56brlcadRalith: he was, there were a few swap-ups once the website was finally accessible again
01:05.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Pacman87 07http://brlcad.org * r1430 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009:
01:05.01Ralithah.
01:05.06pacman87i suppose i could've deduced that
01:05.06Ralithyeah, I recall you mentioned that we're using group-mentoring
01:05.13Ralithplus it's always good to have such things in everyone's logs
01:05.14brlcadnot that it matters who is listed really :)
01:05.25Ralithmatters that I'm not going insane ^^
01:05.35pacman87oh, and time zones might also be good for that page
01:05.45brlcadwell, that's not necessarily proof *against* that fact, Ralith  :)
01:05.50Ralithhehe
01:06.18pacman87the "MoRe.brlcad.org 2" makes me curious...
01:06.27Ralithpacman87: I dunno.  I suspect I speak for more than myself when I say that my sleep schedule is strange and unpredictable enough to make timezone questionably relevant.
01:06.56brlcadpacman87: how so?
01:07.05pacman87not a descriptive title
01:07.12brlcadah :)
01:07.13pacman87wondering what the project actually is
01:07.22brlcadknew exactly what that was ;)
01:07.42``ErikO.O http://www.mtv.com/ontv/dyn/the_state/series.jhtml
01:07.56brlcadshe was an applicant last year that we lost during conflict resolution, hence the '2'
01:08.21pacman87ah
01:09.04brlcadyes, one of you four got lucky! ;)
01:10.56brlcadstarseeker: sure, but if you're going to do that much, why not use the points to stich them together and display a mesh instead?
01:11.08starseekersure
01:11.14brlcadthat's all things like tor do, sample around the surface parameter space and display a mesh
01:11.27starseekerok, that's what I want :-)
01:11.51starseekerwould like rebuilt sphere to actually look like a sphere in wireframe... call me crazy...
01:11.57brlcadeven the old nurbs code does that -- the only trick is not making too many edges
01:13.12starseekerhas yet to get it to give him any points...
01:13.15brlcadsince you'll quickly run out of memory or end up with complex wireframes for trivial shapes that are expensive to display -- want a 'minimal' mesh that is barely sufficient
01:13.20starseekernods
01:13.39``Erikyeah, screen full of red == bad
01:14.39``Erikmeshes will show ya pretty quick how bad it gets (be good to have LoD on those)
01:15.30brlcadwe should eventually sort out a way to manage levels of detail in the wireframe, so we can have beautifully smooth curves and detail when it matters along with being able to bring up entire vehicles without 'e' taking minutes
01:17.06Ralithpacman87: oooh, sweep prims? Awesome!
01:17.22Ralithbeen wanting those.
01:17.36brlcadbe nice to stack automatic LoD on top of it too, so mged or the display manager could recognize that an object is less than 2x2 pixels in screen space, for example, so it only displays a dot, etc
01:18.57``Erikand mebbe look at refresh time to see if level should be tweaked down on slow machines or up on fast ones
01:19.19brlcadnods
01:19.46``Erik(overridable, of course, for when the gurus know what they're doing)
01:20.13starseekerOK, here's something else from Rhino in the nurbs department:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/nurbs_shape1.g
01:20.28starseekerlooks like this in Rhino:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/shape1_rhino.png
01:20.49starseekerand  currently looks like this in my raytrace:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/shape1.png
01:21.21``Erikthinks one of those is broken
01:21.24brlcadcool, looks about the same to me
01:21.31brlcadwe're done!
01:21.35starseekerhehe
01:21.40brlcadoh I see the problem
01:21.42brlcadours is red
01:21.42``Erikthose aren't the same ae or perspective
01:21.52``Erikso it's impossible to do a pixel comparison
01:21.55``Erik(plus one is red)
01:22.07starseekerbrlcad: will that do for a "next step" geometry test or is that a bit much?
01:22.12brlcadmatching view would help
01:22.18``Erikc'mon, starseeker, if you want a pixel comparison, at LEAST get the ae right
01:22.21brlcadit's a bit much I'd think
01:22.26starseekersigh
01:22.34starseekerok, I'll take another stab tomorrow
01:22.36brlcadi mean keep it, great test case
01:22.49brlcadbut about as complex as the vase it seems
01:22.57starseekerah
01:23.01brlcadhow many surfaces?
01:23.21starseekerit's two extruded curves, one subtracted from the other
01:23.29starseekernot sure how it came out surface wise
01:23.33brlcadright, but what did it store?
01:23.38brlcadl in mged should say
01:23.40``Erikmaking each surface a different color might help
01:23.53starseeker5 faces
01:24.04brlcadhuh
01:24.07brlcadcounted 4
01:24.27starseekerI may have messed up in rhino
01:24.36starseekerisn't a rhino expert, unfortunately
01:24.37``Erikmebbe the pinches on the inside split the inside into two faces?
01:25.54starseekerincidently, this shape really shows up the  limitations of our current wireframe routine ;-)
01:25.59brlcadstarseeker: I would suggest starting with the primitives (again) but more methodically making test geometry that test varied (non-uniform and uniform) scaling
01:26.08starseekerok
01:26.54starseekershould read the Rhino tutorial this time :-P
01:27.40starseekerreally hits the road this time
01:27.45starseekershopping to do
01:27.47brlcadlike a sub-mm sphere, a unit sphere, a 1m sphere, a 1000m sphere, then for each of those vertically compressed (a flatish disk, maybe in half) and vertically stretched (a long ellipsoid, maybe quadruple)
01:28.06brlcadthen move on to the next primitive, repeat
01:28.22brlcadeach one should be pretty quick to generate, save
01:28.44brlcadthat should make sure the tolerances are working right
01:30.17brlcad(keep screenshots of a consistent view in rhino for comparison, like 35/25 or 45/45
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04:10.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1431 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Removed now-irrelevant TCL dep removal proposal.
04:28.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1432 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009: Linked to OpenGL GUI proposal
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04:51.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34273 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS TODO src/libged/mirror.c src/mged/setup.c):
04:51.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: restored the mirror command's ability to take a trailing x|y|z axis option while
04:51.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: still utilizing the new command wrappers. instead of calling the edit wrapper,
04:51.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: though, we just call the view wrapper and do the edit/redraw ourselves. works
04:51.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: like a charm. this was specifically requested by victor cericole for
04:51.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: efficiency/familiarity, albeit left it intentionally undocumented
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05:40.35dreeves2~log
05:40.36ibotlog is, like, as piece of wood, or a record, or the opposite of exponentiation, or http://ibot.rikers.org/%23uphpu/
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06:52.05madant!peak
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10:19.57d-lomernin all!
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10:34.39mafm_mernin, d-lo
10:35.11d-lohai mafm!  How goes it?
10:36.46mafmhttp://edu.gulo.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=56
10:37.04mafmconsidering attending the emacs course
10:37.16mafm"Line editors and the infamous ed -> vi evolution."
10:37.36mafmsounds amazing as a piece of compuer archaeology :P
10:38.06mafm"Religion and text editors" - spiritual enlightening
10:58.30d-loheh:  http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com/
10:59.00d-lothe html source is a hoot.
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11:53.45brlcadmafm: sounds like a great course
11:54.58mafmbrlcad: kidding, I guess :P
11:55.05mafms/guess/hope/
11:55.25brlcadmafm: heh, nope
11:55.42brlcadthat really does sound like a nice comprehensive overview of emacs
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11:58.26LarsGHi... anyone has some time for a short question? I am trying to (mis-)use brlcad to convert from dxf to iges...
11:58.57brlcaddxf-g, g-iges
11:58.57LarsGI  manage to import both the 2d and the 3d content from my dxf, but from seperate input files
11:59.16brlcadahh, 2D export to iges isn't probably going to succeed
11:59.17LarsGso now, I have two g.files (databases) that I would have to merge
11:59.27LarsGhm
11:59.29brlcadthe fact that dxf-g imports 2D is sheer oddity
11:59.41brlcadrather, it's "new"
11:59.55LarsGok, I can report it to work as import
12:00.06brlcadwe don't generally import non-solid objects, but one of the devs added 2D support for dxf since they closely map to our sketch objects
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12:01.25brlcadlarsG: we don't generally import non-solid objects, but one of the devs added 2D support for dxf since they closely map to our sketch objects
12:01.36mafmbrlcad: would you go to one such course? I find it pretty un-amusing, spending 1 whole day (8 hours) lerning how to use a diary or connect to jabber with emacs :P
12:01.37brlcadbut might as well give it a try :)
12:02.08LarsGI see, so no chance to get both exported
12:02.22brlcadmafm: I know most of how to do that with emacs already, but yeah I'd consider it
12:02.28LarsGbut for interest, is there a merge-command to merge two databases?
12:02.31brlcadLarsG: I don't recall frankly
12:02.44brlcadwhat iges will do with the sketch objects is the big question
12:02.54brlcadLarsG: it's trivial to merge to .g files
12:03.29brlcadyou can dbconcat or use mged File->Import or literally 'cat' the two files together (assuming you don't have name collisions)
12:03.48LarsGahhh ok, I was hoping for something like that
12:04.25brlcaddbconcat in mged is the most 'clean' way
12:05.27LarsGok I try this
12:07.51LarsGhm the only problem now is that I get two times "all"
12:08.19mafmbrlcad: I'm only interested in some bits, and especially first and last day look like a bit ... preposterous? to me, I don't know what's unholy about ed to vi evolution, and I don't know why you would want to use emacs instead of proper and efficient tools for some of the day5 tasks :)
12:11.17LarsGok, I think I got it by adding prefixes, still the effect is strange.
12:11.31LarsGI can either display the 3d or the 2d stuff
12:12.46LarsGif I switch off the model in the geombrowser, I can display the dimensions, but when the model is displayed, the 2d objects stay invisible
12:22.01brlcadmafm: first day is basically history and basics of use -- what makes that preposterous?
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12:23.44brlcadmafm: if you don't know why, then it sounds like it's probably a good course for you too -- some of the topics on day 5 are very powerful facilities
12:24.33brlcadthe point is to teach you why
12:25.07brlcadperhaps address many of your preconceived notions, which sound like you have quite a few of
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12:27.01brlcadhowdy d_rossberg
12:28.23archivistif an editor need a 5 day course then there is some thing wrong with usability :)
12:28.35brlcador there's just that much you can do with it
12:29.30brlcadvery likely could spend just as much time covering all the things possible with vim
12:30.10brlcadand I know entire (multi-week) courses that focus around teaching things like msstudio
12:30.19archivist"Keeping balances and bank transactions" surely an editor is the wrong place for banking
12:30.25d_rossberggood morning to all
12:30.30brlcadit's not an editor, that's the point
12:30.56brlcadit's an environment, and a programmable one at that
12:32.26d-lomernin d_rossberg.  How goes things?
12:34.00d-loarchivist: Lets put it this way:  In the Terminator movies, skynet is actually a 'mode' of emacs.
12:34.11mafmbrlcad: explaining "infamous ed -> vi evolution" doesn't sound right to me, or "religion and text editors"
12:34.36brlcadmafm: why?
12:34.44mafmtrollish
12:34.49brlcadit's for better or worse, a HUGE aspect to the history of the projects
12:35.03brlcadthere have been editor "wars" as long as there have been editors
12:35.34brlcada course on the editor covering the history of how/why it came to pass not covering those wars would be like covering WWII and leaving out Germany
12:38.51brlcadI certainly didn't read it as trollish, though I can see how you would have .. but just further reinforces that it sounds like you're rather biased with several preconceptions
12:39.47mafmdunno, I just happen to find emacs useful and use it, I don't know why should I bother with the wars with vi in a course... maybe I just expect technical aspects and not other considerations :)
12:39.48brlcadcould certainly talk about the ed->vi evolution and editor religion with or without an agenda -- it's history and perspective (that many people don't have contrary to his 'infamous' claim)
12:40.51brlcadmafm: heh, well maybe it's just filler, they have a week to fill after all ;)
12:41.37mafmI think that they just enjoy it (I know some of the people and they do use emacs to connect to IRC and all that)
12:42.27brlcadlikewise, friends that use it for email and finances and other purposes .. and they're impressively efficient at it
12:42.46archivistsome time you need the best tool for the job and not a jack of all trades
12:42.56brlcadnot my preference nor a skill set proficiency that I've learned, but doesn't mean it's wrong either ;)
12:42.59mafmmines aren't terribly efficient at that, though :)
12:44.10mafmin fact they spend time trying to do that instead of working properly
12:45.06brlcadmeh, it's their time to use -- everyone has hobbies
12:45.11mafmI can see why it's useful to show that you can use emacs as an environment, but you don't have to showcase all those tools for a whole day
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12:45.55``Erikpheer bill joys hack around ed to make it 'wysiwig', death to the its teco clusterfuck! :D
12:46.04mafmwell, one of them is doing it during working hours, not as hobby, maybe I'm also a bit biased because of that :P
12:46.55``Erikthe only people who think the emacs/vi religious war isn't friendly are the newbs and outsiders :)
12:47.07brlcadmany/most people have hobby-spillover with their work, that was part of the point
12:47.18brlcadif you don't allow it, you have unhappy unproductive people
12:47.34``Erik(emacs is an interesting lispos for an archaic variant... all it's missing is a decent editor)
12:47.38brlcadwhat do you care if you're doing your part -- unless you're an unhappy unproductive person :P
12:47.44``ErikI think I'm in a couple fortune files saying something like that O.o
12:48.14``Erik(morning, all)
12:48.24mafmI care because I have to share his part, when he doesn't do it :D
12:48.54brlcadso, unless you hate your job?
12:49.06brlcadin which case.. you have a bigger problem
12:50.26mafmerm, yes, it's a sunny day around here...
12:50.28brlcadi'd take on any coworker's project in a minute were it not for time conflicts and competing priorities, it's nearly all fun stuff to work on (the comp sci parts)
12:51.01mafm;)
12:51.02d-loits begining to sound like brlcad is wasting too much time sleeping and chatting on irc!
12:52.24d_rossbergd-lo: lot of work here
12:52.27brlcadnaw, I'm happy I got mirror 'fixed'
12:52.45brlcaddigesting the next move
12:54.57``Erikgheh, digesting :/ shoulda had more than a salad for dinner last night
12:55.25mafmbtw ``Erik, vi doesn't even deserve to be consider a match to emacs, it's so inferior that it hurts when you pronounce the name, blagh :P
12:55.36brlcadahh, that reminds me .. I *did* have salad (caprese) and an amazing risotto... must get more!
12:55.52``Erikheh, vim is my weapon of choice, emacs is so... gooby
12:56.30archivistis raw vi
12:56.32``Erikis using both lately, 'slime' is impressive and hasn't tried the vim equivalent
12:56.51``Erikand I've had to use ed on a few occasions :)
12:56.55``Erikthe ONE TRUE EDITOR
12:57.09mafmthe ONE LINE AT A TIME true editor
12:57.27archivistalthough on windaz I use syn
12:57.28``Erikerm less so than emacs O.o
12:57.42``Erikon windows, I use a fbsd install cd
12:57.44``ErikO:-)
12:57.55mafmwouldn't people use sed instead of ed nowadays?
12:58.03mafmI never resorted to use ed
12:58.08``Erikuhm... ed is interactive sed
12:58.16d-loadd fuel to fire.
12:58.22d-lovi is stupid.
12:58.30``Erikyes, you're an ide weenie, you know nothing
12:58.30``Erik;D
12:59.05mafmyeah, a mouse engineer :P
12:59.14starseekerthrows some gasoline on the flamewar by saying he likes nedit :-P
12:59.44starseekernothing like a good flamewar in the morning to get the blood moving
12:59.54``Erikwhat would something about visual studio add to the fire?
13:00.15starseekerthat's beyond a mere flamewar ;-)
13:00.18``Erikis that the godwin's law of editors?
13:00.29d-lo``Erik: I dunno what throwing pure evil on a fire would do...
13:00.44mafmsure, you're an editor nazi, ``Erik
13:00.48starseekermore like the framewar breaks up with all sides laughing at the idea of visual studio as an editor...
13:01.04starseekersort of a "ok, none of us are as bad as that" effect
13:01.37``Erikd-lo: I was reading a website about interviews at MS last night and one of them was "you're in an 8x8' roomt with no doors and the prince of darkness appears before you"
13:01.52d-loahahahahaha.
13:01.57``Erikmy thought was to ask "um, is it bill? or is he the king and steve the prince? I need to know if I have to dodge chairs..."
13:02.06mafmtime to retire for my coffee, now that my evil plan to start a yihad here at #brlcad :P
13:02.21``Erikwonders how that would go over at an ms interview
13:02.34d-lomafm:  no jihad.  I am right and everyone else is wrong.  Its as simple as that.
13:03.02``Erikemacs and vim are awfully hard to use when you can only interface a computer via a 2 button mouse :(
13:03.13mafmerm, now that my plan (rest of phrase) succeeded*
13:03.21d-lo``Erik: My brother in law (aka the guy who is high up on the Silverlight team) just bought an iPod.  His boss glares at him all day :)
13:03.45starseekerlololol
13:04.17``Erikhehehe, didja see the surveillance video of the thief who stole a laptop and shit, stole the headphones off of a zune, but left the zune? :D
13:04.30d-lo``Erik: true, but if someone doesn't have a keyboard, I would love to see even an emacs guru be productive ;)
13:05.01``ErikI'd love to see an emacs guru be productive even with a kbd *cough* O:-)
13:05.37``Erikhttp://digg.com/comedy/Thief_Steals_Everything_But_The_Zune
13:05.47d-loIn fact, I would bet that if a vi/vim guru sat down at a computer without a keyboard, he would just stare at the mouse with blood running out of his ears.
13:06.24``Erikheh, vi was made to interface computers without keyboards :D slow-assed teletype terminals ftw
13:06.30mafmlol
13:10.53``Erikrubs the sleep from his eyes and tries to figure out which task to do today
13:11.38brlcadadrt client ftw!
13:12.01``Erikyeah, but I also have to get the forge pki crap done 'real soon now'
13:12.02``Erik:(
13:12.32``Erikplus an abstract for a paper
13:12.38``Erikif not a chunk of the paper heh
13:13.22brlcadhey, you said "today" .. all the rest of that could be done tomorrow
13:14.03``Erikgiven how long it takes the adrt stuff to instrument for a peek at what it may be doing, progress there isn't a "today" thing :(
13:16.51``Erikmight try to twist it into libpkg to make it a little more coherent
13:17.13brlcadwould be teh awesome
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14:26.47starseekerhmm, slashdot finally noticed gsoc
14:29.28brlcadstarseeker: there was an announcement earlier, just didn't make the headline
14:29.35brlcadit was poorly worded
14:29.58madant5th year after all :)
14:31.02madantso not so much a of NEWs maybe..
14:36.22_clock_lol
14:36.27_clock_slashdot is well informed
14:52.21``Eriknot especially... the signal/noise ratio has dropped a LOT
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14:52.43``ErikI tend to get my fix at hacker news ( http://news.ycombinator.com ) now
14:54.44``Eriktends to be a strong "web 2.0" startup crap angle to a lot, but it also has general nerdiness stuff
14:59.17PrezKennedynot much noise there... not much of anything really... :P
15:02.08``Erikit's fast, they only keep 210 in the 'hot spool', almost everything I've seen on slashdot for the last several months, I'd seen on that site earlier
15:06.06brlcadpacman87: http://www.google.com/search?q=sweep+primitive  
15:06.15brlcadyou are now apparently the definitive source! :)
15:08.55starseekerbrlcad: here's some boxes at different size points:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/nurbs_boxes.g
15:13.18starseekerwill hit spheres next
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15:38.12starseekervarious spheres:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/nurbs_spheres.g
15:38.52mafmbrlcad sayeth: http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1206403&cid=27661197
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17:30.42``Erikhuh http://nfg.2y.net/games/ntsc/visual.shtm   we suck at blue
17:34.06archivisthence we called it Never Twice the Same Colour over here
17:34.28``Erikhey, PAL, back off :D
17:34.36``Erik</pun> *duck*
17:34.37archivist:)
17:34.48archivistPerfect All Lines
17:35.36archivistSECAM System Essentially Contrary to American Method
17:35.37``Erikcontends that visual quality is irrelevant as long as programming quality is nonexistant
17:36.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r34274 10/jbrlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs):
17:36.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: Added ArrayCopy class used it in place of some calls to Arrays.copy().
17:36.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: This is to eliminate use of Java 6 specific stuff
17:36.36``Erik"can't polish a turd"?
17:37.40archivistI saw some shiny turds a couple of years ago while out walking
17:38.22``Erikquite the contrarian today, eh? no matter, I'm enjoying a sake buzz, I believe I'll say "screw bureacracy" and code some
17:39.11archivistI was a TV engineer way back so Im used to the TV systems and all the crap
17:39.50``Erikthe tv and monitor overlay triangles on the average eye sensitivity chart are kinda depressing
17:40.24``Erikespecially considering how much of a persons life is spent staring at one...
17:41.37``Erikhttp://www.cameraguild.com/technology/images/colorimetry7.jpg
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18:08.20brlcadhowdy jonored_
18:11.46jonored_Hihi
18:13.42brlcadjonored_: you get brep_curve() working? :)(
18:15.16jonored_I got it what looks like partially working with calling the opennurbs routines, but it's very spotty.
18:15.44brlcadhow so?
18:15.47brlcadhow are you testing it?
18:17.24jonored_Running it on the sphere from the nurbs_tests.g set that starseeker has. It comes back with what looks like a random set of pixels filled, and others not when I run rt -l 4 on it. All the same color, though, which looks plausible.
18:19.30jonored_http://users.wpi.edu/~jonored/brlcad/nurbs_sphere.png
18:19.34archivist``Erik, worse when you take in the subtractive colour systems (printing inks/dyes) as well
18:19.53brlcadjonored_: wow, that is pretty wicked
18:20.04brlcadlikes more like random data
18:22.53jonored_Red and blue for the principal curvatures, though?
18:23.21pacman87jonored_: i think your cloaking technology needs a bit more work, i can still see it
18:26.42brlcadstarseeker: you seen this?  http://brlcad.org/tmp/tirechart.jpg
18:26.55brlcadfigure probably, but just in case
18:39.31starseekerhmm - not that particular one
18:47.29starseekerbrlcad: are you familiar with Qhull?
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18:56.23brlcadnope, not specifically
18:56.35starseekermike pointed it out to me
18:57.10brlcadwow, heh, that's pretty lame.. their "images" page is a google 'qhull' images search
18:57.40starseekernot sure what to make of their COPYING.txt file
18:57.49starseekeris that LGPL compatible?
18:59.18brlcadincompatible because of clause 3 and 4
18:59.29starseekernuts
18:59.37brlcadyou can't add new restrictions
18:59.53brlcadthe other three are covered by lgpl already
19:00.02starseekerother 3?
19:00.10brlcadclauses 1, 2, and 5
19:00.14starseekerah
19:00.31starseekerwell, I guess it's back to GNU TSL then :-)
19:00.38brlcadgiven how loosely it's worded though and how old it is, you could probably get them to relicense
19:01.06starseekerhmm
19:01.31starseekerwonder if they're better than  TSL at triangulation
19:01.35brlcadtsltsl?
19:01.53starseekerGNU Triangulated Surface Library
19:02.03brlcadah, right
19:02.08brlcadGTS :)
19:02.19starseekerah :-)
19:02.54brlcadcurious, what's it for?
19:03.07brlcadi mean, what you're using it for .. not what gts is for
19:03.24starseekerdunno - he just came in talking about the points primitive and mentioned Qhull as being of interest
19:03.44brlcadah, the automatically mesh surfaces
19:03.51brlcadsure
19:03.52brlcadmaybe
19:03.52brlcadlater
19:03.57starseekerexactly
19:03.59brlcadirrellevant at this point :)
19:04.05starseekerdon't know what put the bee in his bonnet
19:04.21brlcadprobably was just talking to richard
19:04.41``EriknnNGSNngs *kicks stupid fop repeatedly*
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19:06.39brlcadhe's an armchair thoughtmonger, wouldn't put too much effort
19:06.42brlcadtis distractionary
19:06.52starseekernods
19:07.07starseekeruploading new nurbs examples created so far
19:07.19brlcadsaw some tire pictures getting put to use nicely (geoff)
19:07.44starseekercool :-)  yeah, he asked for those a few days ago
19:08.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34275 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/adrt.h: use high bit of mode type to indicate a change in mode
19:10.45starseekerok, what I've got so far is  here: http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/nurbs_tests/
19:11.33brlcadcool
19:11.48brlcadunfortunately, I can't look at them at the moment because mged is crashing!
19:11.59starseekera couple of those cases may be too extreme to be reasonable,  not sure
19:12.01starseekeruh oh!
19:12.07starseekerlatest svn?
19:12.18brlcadyeah
19:12.24starseekerbuilds
19:12.26brlcadthink it's a 64bit bug
19:12.29starseekerah
19:12.40starseekerwon't see that here then
19:13.32starseeker``Erik:  you could submit a patch to the FOP guys
19:13.32``Eriknifty, make -j8 gives me this in the docbook stuff: 2009-04-21 15:12:15.997 java[7593] CFLog (0): CFMessagePort: bootstrap_register(): failed 1103 (0x44f), port = 0x15803, name = 'java.ServiceProvider'
19:13.48starseekerwhat the...
19:13.48``Eriksubmit an effin' patch upside their effin' heads *cough*
19:13.49brlcadshudders in horror at the get_dbip command
19:15.17starseekeris viewedge.c the rtedge logic?
19:15.28``Erikyes
19:15.32starseekerk
19:15.52starseekermumble mumble weird src/rt build setup...
19:16.04``Erikit could use some serious rewriting, the algo is a bit clumsy
19:16.25brlcadthe rt apps are actually rather nice, just not organized clearly source-wise
19:16.49brlcadthere's a front-end that they all use, then they implement view hooks (rtuif)
19:17.06brlcadthere's a tutorial from 2002 that explains
19:18.14brlcadaaaand, there's the bug bob ..
19:18.21brlcadged_dbip must die
19:20.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34276 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/dbip.c: oh my gawd, this code needs to die.
19:28.19brlcadwonders if that made the last release...
19:30.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34277 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/dbip.c:
19:30.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: this is actually in contention for worst hack to date. fix the underlying bug
19:30.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: where a pointer is getting serialized to a string (seriously?!), but it was
19:30.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: getting truncated to 32-bits (causing a crash on 64-bit platforms). change the
19:30.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: casting and go through void to quell warnings. this routine should not exist.
19:31.04``Erikdiffs as morbid curiosity takes over
19:32.24brlcadthe fact that it's an mged command whose sole purpose is to return the address of the currently open database instance pointer.. is . just . wrong
19:33.27``Erikshould we all run into his office and point fingers at him with angry scowls?
19:33.51brlcadthat's as bad as a hack I did in bz several years ago, serializing one of our singletons into our runtime key/value database in order to avoid using a global
19:34.07``Erikya damn 2-bit hacks :D
19:34.10brlcadno, there's code to be written and more important things to be done :P
19:34.57brlcadthat code isn't even necessarily something he wrote, it's been there a while, just was refactored into libged
19:35.14``Erikbut but but... pointing fingers... scowling...!
19:35.18brlcadand changed then, which introduced the bug .. but the serialization was still there
19:35.57brlcadif you want to do something effective, make get_dbip go away :P
19:36.02``Erikwould still be interested in seeing what a 64b machien does when main immediately allocates and fills 4g of ram to see if we really are 64b clean
19:36.17``ErikI'm kinda more thinking about making isst's "cut" work
19:36.42``Erikthat might fit ed's view of effective a bit better :D
19:37.29brlcadstarseeker: nice, now I can see the boxes :)
19:37.41brlcadeven the box exposes some issues apparently
19:37.55brlcadsubmm vs 1000m and the divergence warnings, for example
19:37.57starseekerseems to, unless I just went too wonky on the dimensions
19:38.03starseekerah, yes
19:38.29brlcadis the importer making regions and assigning red or are you doing that?
19:44.02starseekerthe importer is
19:47.56``Erikhey, brlcad, recall how big our CVS was when we migrated to svn?
20:01.16*** join/#brlcad andax (n=andax__@d213-102-41-115.cust.tele2.ch)
20:06.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34278 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (adrt.h slave/slave.c): use macro instead of magic shift value
20:30.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34279 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS:
20:30.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: credit peter stiller for his contributions on BRL-CAD helping sort out curvature
20:30.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: calculations for implicitly defined surfaces (was a visiting prof to brl, circa
20:30.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 1987-1988 according to ed davisson). ed says he was a nice guy.
20:30.59brlcad``Erik: details on the iwki
20:37.26brlcadfind it?
20:40.32brlcadugh, dammit.. there's another pointer getting serialized
20:40.48brlcadan fbp
20:45.49brlcadwow, this one is old
20:45.54brlcadModified Wed Jan 28 16:01:12 1998 UTC (11 years, 2 months ago)
20:46.02brlcadshakes fist
20:51.57``Erikoh, didn't look, need had already passed
20:52.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34280 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/attach.c: yet another fugly serialization that should not exist. the fbp is also getting truncated here on 64-bit platforms causing a 'mini crash' when the window is closed. needs to be refactored into oblivion.
20:56.45``Erikum, ok, megatron O.o
21:08.59brlcad``Erik: you remember what name I gave the new server?
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21:49.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34281 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/attach.c: meh, eliminate mged_fb_close() since it's only used in one place
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22:12.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34282 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_X24.c: ws indent
22:17.16CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34283 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/ (fb_generic.c tcl.c):
22:17.16CIA-28BRL-CAD: refactor fb_close_existing() out of fb_cmd_close_existing() so that it will
22:17.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: close a given fbp without needing to serialize/deserialize a pointer to a
22:17.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: string. this is (still) horribly divergent from libfb's callback interface but
22:17.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: none of the fb-specific *_close_existing() calls are stored in their interface
22:17.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: FBIO object.
22:21.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34284 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/fb.h src/mged/attach.c):
22:21.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: make release() call fb_close_existing() instead of serializing the fbp pointer
22:21.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: to a string and going through the tcl interpreter just so we can call the
22:21.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: fb_close_existing proc with that address, deserialize, then free. declare
22:21.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: fb_close_existing(). avoid the fugly.
22:24.36brlcadmadant_: someone cheering on libpc on /., hurry up! :)
22:25.33madant_huh :O :D where
22:39.59madant_ah found it :)
22:40.13madant_via google of all things :D
22:43.42madant_hahaha .. canada : 1.31 gsoc projects per million :D
22:51.14``Erikyay for hail
22:51.42Ralithhail's neat
22:52.53``Eriknot when it's tearing up your house and car :D
22:53.02``Erikand it's over
22:53.22madant_and a gsoc project with no coding :O http://socghop.appspot.com/student_project/show/google/gsoc2009/google/t124022446589
22:53.55``Erik15 degrees and 2cm chunks of ice falling from the sky O.o :D
22:54.19Ralith``Erik: that sounds problematic
22:57.03``Eriknot for me, I got home and inside a couple minutes before it started
22:57.10``Erikand my car is still in a shop, not outside :D
22:58.16Ralithyay!
23:59.20``Erik*nomnomnom*
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090422

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090422

00:04.27poolioalloo all
00:06.17``Erikoi, hoolio, 'sup?
00:54.12poolioData analysis galore :\
00:54.20poolioHow bout yoself?
01:00.40*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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08:39.38mafmhi
08:49.13brlcadhowdy mafm
10:16.20*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
10:16.20*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.6 posted (20090403) || Congratulations to D.Thomas, E.Bautu, J.Doliner, T.Ruitenbeek, and B.Saunders! || GSoC2009 Next Step: do the checklist(!), introduce yourself, meet the mentors, finalize milestones -- coding begins May 23rd
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13:04.52``Eriktakes a moment to totally rock out O.o
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14:35.01andrecastelomorning guys
14:35.27``Erikoi
14:35.38``Erikhttp://www.redhat.com/about/where-is-open-source/activity/  neat
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14:59.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r34285 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/samples/rt.java: Added "-b" option to run a single ray
15:01.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r34286 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/geometry/Partition.java: Improved boolean evaluation a bit
15:02.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r34287 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/geometry/SimpleOverlapHandler.java: Corrected normal flipping in overlap handler
15:03.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r34288 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/ (8 files in 3 dirs): Hit now has a field for the name of the primitive that was hit
15:04.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r34289 10/jbrlcad/trunk/test/org/brlcad/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Minor mods to account for new primitive name field in the HIt class
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16:30.15brlcadhowdy joe
16:30.34jdolinerhello
17:37.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34290 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac src/adrt/Makefile.am src/adrt/misc/): Remove src/adrt/misc.
17:49.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34291 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/deprecation.txt: document a few wdb routines that were obsoleted in 7.12.2 (deprecated prior to 7.0)
17:52.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34292 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/news2tracker.sh: hm, semi
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18:33.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34293 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp:
18:33.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: Add a (commented out) routine in the wireframe plotting of breps that will do a
18:33.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: simple walk of the uv parameter space for each surface in the brep and make a
18:33.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: (crude) wireframe of the untrimmed surfaces. Not useful for much at this point
18:33.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: except seeing in 3d where untrimmed surfaces are living.
19:17.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34294 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: Tweaking the brep surface drawing rouine - will need to implement proper tesselation as next step to get reasonable wireframes.
19:19.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34295 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/breplicator.cpp: add another test face
19:34.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34296 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: prevent debug printing I/O from killing performance. Only print out 100 reasons before going quiet.
19:43.31brlcadstarseeker: another relatively simple test case: http://brlcad.org/tmp/brep_pinch.g
19:44.43brlcadinteresting because you can hit three surfaces with one ray four times
19:48.35``Eriktries to find a good hiding spot from brlcad O.o
19:48.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34297 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: hack to prevent java "dock bounce" on osX when fop is called.
19:53.22brlcadheh
19:53.48``Erikcouldn't think of a better way to set FOP_OPTS from auto* :/
19:57.33brlcadmeh, it works for me .. I don't usually have fop
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20:07.06CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1434 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009: bowman is indianlarry
20:15.55jdolineris bowman ever on?
20:16.10brlcad~seen indianlarry
20:16.14iboti haven't seen 'indianlarry', brlcad
20:16.27brlcadhe's been on irc a couple time iirc, but not hardly at all
20:16.47brlcadmore accessible via the mailing list
20:18.58jdolinergroovy
20:36.12brlcadjdoliner: not to worry -- there's still plenty of folks here for interactive
20:36.48brlcadthough you should send status updates to your wiki page so he can follow you and/or to the mailing list
20:36.54brlcadpassive is usually more effective
20:37.41brlcadwhat pacman87 did last year is a good example where there's a daily mini-log: http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Pacman87
20:46.27pacman87_trailed off at the end, though
21:48.10starseekereyes opensg and wonders if their tesselation code is the same code used for http://cg.cs.uni-bonn.de/aigaion2root/attachments/balazs-2004-efficient.pdf
21:49.23starseekermaybe easier to ask...
21:55.51starseekerbrlcad:  does the old nurbs code have routines for converting from nurb curve to bezier curve?
21:56.48starseekernevermind, found it
21:59.10starseekerwonders if he can just take the old nurbs_tess and port it to opennurbs data structures...
21:59.14starseekerhmm...
21:59.55starseekeruh oh - "This is a temporary guess until legitimate code can be found"
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23:36.21brancohello
23:39.45brancoi was going through some example files through archer on version 7.14.6 without installing blender to /usr/brlcad , only after make on ubuntu and i have a weird error : it sais unsupported display manager ogl ; I didn't try installing the software but even so it's kind of wierd to have an error like this
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090423

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090423

00:38.42brlcadbranco: without installing blender? :)
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01:01.40brlcadthinks you maybe meant brl-cad.. what is the exact error? the ogl interface is disabled by default via configure, though you "shouldn't" need it
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02:49.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34298 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/rt.c: remove and undeadify code to print raytrace status. Tcl_Eval doesn't belong in libged, so make the summary as a simple bu_log for now. include tcl.h regardless as there still are other tclisms that need to go away.
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03:15.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34299 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/bigE.c: big style consistency and ws cleanup.
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04:20.17starseekerarcher needs the ogl interface as of latest trunk, iirc
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08:47.29downstreammorning
08:47.56downstreamcurrently trying to build 7.14.6 on mac os x
08:48.24downstreamfails at libTkhtml3.0.dylib
08:48.30downstreammissing symbols:
08:48.44downstreamld: Undefined symbols:
08:48.44downstream_XCopyArea
08:48.45downstream_XFillPolygon
08:48.45downstream_XFillRectangle
08:48.45downstream_XGetImage
08:49.05downstreamsounds like it needs -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11
08:49.31downstreamwonder why it builds on linux, though ;)
09:19.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34300 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.def: access to bu logging
09:26.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34301 10/rt^3/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
09:26.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: access to libbu's log messaging system
09:26.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: the default is no log messages at all
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10:46.30d-lomornin all
11:15.28*** part/#brlcad LarsG (n=lars@cl0160.pc.nus.edu.sg)
11:30.39brlcaddownstream: that's libXi, missing a -lXi
11:31.20brlcader, never mind, you're right -- that is -lX11
11:33.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34302 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/CMakeLists.txt:
11:33.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: bring the core's C++ interface to live by integrating it into the brlcad.dll
11:33.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: the raises a question about giving version numbers to rt^3 or integrating the affected parts into the brlcad branch
11:36.54downstreambrlcad: :)
11:37.23downstreamwhy does that -l only get missed on darwin?
11:37.36downstream(assuming that tarball actually builds on linux)
11:39.18downstreamshould i just add it to LDFLAGS globally? or better hack the Makefile.in?
11:40.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34303 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: include the logging example snippet in the header with a comment about stderr/stdout possibly changing.
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11:45.01``Erikshould work fine on osX :/
11:52.52brlcaddownstream: without any more information, I'd assume it's some probably with automake and configure -- did you run autogen.sh?
11:53.52brlcadthe X11 tests that are put into configure are dependent on the version of automake that was available with autogen.sh was first run so if you have a source tarball, it may be someone else's automake/autoconf
11:54.01brlcadunless you rerun autogen.sh again
13:07.24``Erikhuh, soleil moon-frye got pretty hot O.o
13:13.14downstreambrlcad: nope, only ./configure
13:13.55downstreami'll try redoing the autoconf/automake dance
13:51.04brlcaddownstream: you just have to run ./autogen.sh
13:51.06brlcadno dance
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15:22.58downstreambrlcad: same result, after autogen.sh & configure
15:23.15downstreamthe -I's are there, the -L/-l is not
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19:53.40starseekeris intrigued by cscope
19:53.57*** join/#brlcad miqlas (n=Miranda@nat-8.koli.uni-miskolc.hu)
19:54.01miqlasHello!
19:54.11starseekerhowd
19:54.36miqlasThe http://brlcad.org/wiki/Building_from_SVN page contains some interresting links:
19:54.38miqlas<a href=http://www.titizilaclama.com/ title=ilaçlama >Ilaçlama</a> <a href=http://www.etkinilaclama.net title=Haºere ilaçlama> Haºere ilaçlama</a> <a href=http://www.cozumilaclama.net title=böcek ilaçlama> Böcek ilaçlama</a> <a href=http://www.pire.biz title=pire>pire</a> <a title=joomla href=http://www.sanaldev.net/indir/joomla> joomla tema</a>
19:54.45miqlasPlease, remove this...
19:54.58starseekerhmm, musta been spammed...
19:55.00starseekerchecks
19:56.39miqlasThanks.
19:57.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03128.63.32.5 07http://brlcad.org * r1435 10/wiki/Building_from_SVN: Undo revision 1285 by [[Special:Contributions/78.183.51.7|78.183.51.7]] ([[User talk:78.183.51.7|Talk]])
19:58.38starseekerthanks for pointing it out
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20:08.34miqlasHello.
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20:15.06miqlasX server required for running BRL-CAD?
20:18.27starseekernot on windows - on mac and Linux yes
20:22.35miqlasI try to build BRL-CAD on Haiku.
20:24.06starseekeruh.  Yeah, you will almost certainly need X
20:24.30starseekerdoesn't know about the status of things like Tcl/Tk and OGL on Haiku
20:24.48miqlasWe have Tk, but no Tcl :(
20:25.11miqlasI can't build it :(
20:25.40starseekerblinks
20:25.49starseekerI didn't know you could build Tk without Tcl
20:26.16miqlasOh, maybe i mistyped then.
20:26.26miqlasI check...
20:27.19miqlasYes, Sou have right, i mistyped, we have Tcl, but no Tk.
20:28.31miqlas*You*
20:37.09``Erikdarn, I was about to be seriously impressed :D
20:56.14brlcadstrictly speaking, X11 isn't required even for mac/linux, you just won't get gui mged
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21:37.27*** join/#brlcad miqlas_ (n=Miranda@nat-8.koli.uni-miskolc.hu)
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22:02.13*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@bz.bzflag.bz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
22:04.02*** join/#brlcad miqlas (n=Miranda@nat-8.koli.uni-miskolc.hu)
22:04.10brlcadmiqlas: do you know jorge?
22:04.33miqlasJorge G. Mare?
22:04.37brlcadyep
22:04.45brlcadtakes that as a "yes" :)
22:04.50miqlasYes, sometimes i meet with her on the Haiku IRC.
22:05.13miqlasi understand this word: "yep". No problem.
22:05.31miqlasHis nickname is koki
22:06.16miqlasYou know him?
22:07.35brlcadusually kokito, no?
22:07.54brlcadand I mean you saying his full name was a "yes"
22:08.19miqlaskoki or kokito, i thin it is the same. But he use the koki name on the official Haiku webpage: http://www.haiku-os.org/user/koki
22:08.21brlcadI've only interacted with him and urias on a few occasions, so no I wouldn't say I know him
22:08.39brlcadyeah, just happens to be kokito on irc iirc
22:09.07brlcadloves haiku, loved beos, wants it to be better
22:09.14miqlasUrias McCullough, ummcullough is a good person too.
22:09.32miqlasbrlcad want it with BRL-CAD :)
22:09.33brlcadmet a few of the other developers at the gsoc summits
22:09.45miqlasAh, okay, i understand.
22:10.18brlcadI think brl-cad would be awesome on haiku :)
22:11.12miqlasBut! It need an easy to use, and Haiku native user interface, i think. But yes, first we will happy for an dirty port too
22:11.13brlcadjust need someone to port qt over for the new gui!
22:11.51miqlasI hope somebody take up the tk and qt, and port it well for Haiku.
22:12.19brlcadtk should be pretty easy
22:12.27brlcadit used to have beos support, just a lot of updates
22:13.10miqlasMaybe we will have it: http://dev.osdrawer.net/projects/activity/qt-beos
22:15.14brlcadI've wanted to work on porting apps to haiku ..
22:15.27miqlasI don't say no :)
22:15.28brlcadi usually try about once or twice a year to get something going
22:15.45brlcadhave been following for five years or so
22:15.59miqlasBut i don't think i can help to You. I know only configure & make & make install.
22:16.13miqlasAnd we don't need "-lm" for Haiku. :)
22:16.20brlcadbut every time I get bogged down in bugs and crashes, then exhaust all my time fixing those bugs with the devs :)
22:17.00brlcadit's not until very recently that it's actually been practical and easy to compile within haiku itself
22:17.32miqlasYes, i understand. But hey! You don't need wait so long, we almost have an alpha system. There is the roadmap for it...
22:17.42miqlasThis is very close now.
22:18.27brlcadnods
22:18.36brlcadthey were very close last year too, and I found a half-dozen bugs for them :)
22:19.02miqlasRemember, we talking about a pre-alpha os....
22:19.15brlcadyep, all in good fun
22:19.32miqlasPlease, forgive it to the Haiku. It will better and better every day.
22:19.39brlcadlike I said, I dug in and helped fix them too
22:20.26brlcadat some point, I'll do an install, open up a terminal and have gcc at my disposal with a functional networking stack and I'll be able to really get started on a porting effort ;)
22:21.11``Erikcranks up emacs and lisps out with his parens out
22:21.34miqlas:)
22:22.14miqlasThis will be my diplom work, if You interrested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkGzC167GdM
22:22.39miqlasSorry for the video quality. This is not the final product.
22:23.57``Erikare ya gonna manufacturer one?
22:24.07miqlasnot yet.
22:24.26miqlasBut may the university make a sample.
22:25.30``Eriknice http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1908328
22:26.19brlcadmiqlas: that's pretty cool
22:26.29miqlasThanks, brlcad :)
22:26.47brlcadwants someone to model a stirling engine in brl-cad as a test case for the constraint solving system
22:27.29brlcadmiqlas: willing to open-source your model? :)
22:27.37miqlasSorry, i don't have time now for learning BRL-CAD :(
22:27.56brlcadwould be a good brep test case too
22:27.59miqlasMy diplom work will be published under CC.
22:28.12brlcadwhich CC?
22:28.25brlcadcc-by?
22:28.57miqlasCreative Commons, Noncommercial-Share Alike
22:29.15brlcadah, darn
22:29.31miqlasI think it is good for diplom work. And if somebody need it, he can make derivates.
22:29.42miqlasbrlcad, it is not good for You?
22:29.46brlcadyeah, just cc-by-nc isn't lgpl compatible due to the nc clause
22:30.24miqlasBut i don't like to see my teacher sell my work in his book.
22:30.26brlcadit's an okay license, just problematic for bundling it with brl-cad directly
22:31.38miqlasAh, but i think You don't need thousand s page hungarian language text... Then i can make an anoither package, only the CAD (may without parametric things) with lgpl compatible license.
22:32.14miqlasOr not? I don't know lot of things about it..
22:32.21brlcadyeah, I don't care about your thesis so much (no offense, of course) :)
22:32.39brlcadyou can do whatever you want with it assuming you hold the copyright
22:32.45miqlasYou need parametric or non-parametric model?
22:32.46``Erikhard to get into a thesis when ya don't speak the language :D
22:33.04miqlas:)
22:33.05``Erik(often hard to get into a thesis when you DO speak the language O.o)
22:33.33brlcadmiqlas: ideally the original files, whatever those are, and then exports in a few formats (parametric and non-parametric) like step, iges, and dxf exports
22:34.37brlcadlooks like you probably have sldprt,sldasm files
22:34.53miqlasThe Hungarian is an very beautifoul language, i think : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGaRnVTLK4Q
22:35.18miqlasAnd we have muuuuuch lot of bad words than the english or german.
22:35.49archivistmiqlas, was that being rotated or does soliworks 2009 do gases and pressure as well now /me is at 2004
22:36.06miqlasIf You like the traditional musis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXhLbq-3uNU (this is the last link, and i don't post more, You can beluive to me :)
22:36.34brlcadmiqlas: feel free to expand my list then! .. https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag/misc/multilingualSwearList.txt
22:36.54brlcadhungarian is rather under-represented
22:37.22Ralithlol
22:37.34miqlasarchivist: , i added an virtual motor like thingie, but in the real life it works by thermal Stirling-cycle. (Isotherm expansion->Isochoric displacement->Isothermal compression->Isochoric displacement)
22:37.57archivistheh I used to know turkish and arabic swear words mid 1960's
22:39.03archivistmiqlas, I know how they work :) have done pressure diagrams for steam engine (turbo pascal)
22:39.39miqlasRealy? Oh... I have excel table for it :)
22:40.32archivistmodelling a steam engine expansion governor was fun
22:41.35miqlas:)
22:42.14miqlasMy stirling-engine video is very old, i almost redesigned now in CATIA V5 (brlcad, the CATIA format will good for You?).
22:43.06archivisthttp://www.archivist.plus.com/website/tour/dynamo.html that engine but the code is circa win95 , cant run it now :(
22:43.46brlcadmiqlas: hm, catia is probably the hardest to work with (but exports from there are fine: step, iges, etc)
22:44.17miqlasOkay, the i will give the modell for You in independent format.
22:44.45miqlasThis is my CAxx album, but sorry, there is not all of my work (sometimes i can't put it to here): http://boly.hu/~miqlas/galeria/index.php?album=g-p-szet
22:44.49brlcadawesome
22:45.58brlcadthat solidedge gear is pretty cool
22:46.24miqlasbrlcad, here is my email address: miqlas(_____at_____)gmail(_dot_)com , feel free to contact me.
22:47.14miqlasbrlcad: SEv10 is useless. It is an crap. But i was need use this version, because the university was have only this. I don't like remember for that.
22:47.27miqlasI have video about that gearbox, if You want see it.
22:48.19brlcadnah, the model itself is what is most interesting :)
22:50.02miqlashttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYGRiRTyYV0
22:50.38miqlasMy Quadro FX 4000 was don't have enough power for it...
22:51.35miqlasbrlcad, if You want i can provide the SolidEdge assembly for You.
22:52.00archivistdoes solidedge have gear mates?
22:52.14miqlasI don't know. I hate the SE.
22:52.35miqlasI was need to use it, but i hate all of the SE products. May, or may not have.
22:52.44archivistok
22:53.49miqlasbrlcad, do You need the assembly. I can give it to You under GPL.
22:54.51miqlasCATIA, SolidWorks is the best, i think (but not for anything). But for me the most interresthin thing is the FEA.
22:55.28``Erik"Jamie Hyneman Is A Douchebag" http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1908740 yeesh, what a cockbite
22:56.16miqlasBut i have the gearbox only in SEv10 academoc format...
22:56.40miqlasOn the next week i can convert it to step for You.
23:03.33miqlasIn the last semester i have "CAD-technics" subject. And what we learn? Yes, AutoCAD. Bah! I use it more than 8 years long... But we use it ...SURPRISE.. with commands. not with icons. Oh my God!... I hate this subject, because i can use AutoCad very well, and i need draw lot of small drawings, because my teacher don't belive to me.. :S
23:45.09Ralithcommands?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090424

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090424

00:09.27brlcadmiqlas: does the SE assembly include all of that geometry?
00:09.46miqlasyes, it include all of them
00:09.55brlcadand how about LGPL?
00:10.02miqlasRalith: with commands. Typing with keyboard...
00:10.05brlcador BSD/MIT
00:10.49Ralithmiqlas: what's wrong with that?
00:10.57brlcador CC-BY or CC-BY-SA
00:11.01Ralithdone right, that kind of interface can be a big improvement on a GUI
00:11.10miqlasbrlcad : it was an complex work, and if it will good for BRL-CAD You can use it for free, and with any licenses. You can select the best for You.
00:11.29brlcadmiqlas: I can't select a license unless you public domain it
00:11.34brlcadand I dont' think you should do that
00:11.50miqlasRalith : what is wrong? nothing, but i don't want make it. :S
00:12.12Ralith:P
00:12.13brlcadI care mostly about you getting attribution for the work
00:12.32miqlasOkay, you can make anything with it. This is belong to the community. MIT, okay?
00:12.34Ralithbrlcad: I think he means he'll use what you suggest.
00:12.35brlcadbeyond that, I don't mind -- gpl is just problematic because of how it defines a collective work
00:12.51brlcadmiqlas: sure, that works great
00:13.12miqlasThen okay. :D
00:13.21brlcadthat website repository could come in handy right now :)
00:13.27brlcadwhere is elena? :)
00:13.58miqlasNow it have CC license in the package. I need delete the license, or You belive to me, i give it to community with MIT?
00:14.15brlcad(not a serious question, she's on the road visiting family right now)
00:14.16miqlasAnd wich format You want? SEv10 academic, or independent?
00:14.35brlcadmiqlas: how big is it?
00:14.44miqlas14 Mb.
00:15.52brlcadmm, if you e-mail that to me saying you are sharing it under the MIT license and I can replace the CC license with the MIT license, I can do the work
00:16.23brlcadotherwise, you can add a text file with it or something that has a statement
00:16.29brlcada README or something
00:16.44miqlasThen native Sev10 (academic!! You can't open it in industrial version!) format will be good for You?
00:17.07brlcadhm, lemme check on that
00:17.08brlcadnot sure
00:17.35miqlasI can convert with academic version for You to step, or anything else format
00:18.30brlcadoh yeah, then please do -- the SE format itself isn't useful
00:18.37brlcadI was just going to export as well
00:18.49brlcad3ds, step, iges, dxf
00:18.55brlcadall useful/interesting formats
00:19.04miqlasOkay. But here is now 02:18am, and i don't have SE installed. I will send it for You at morning. Okay?
00:19.06brlcadHmmm.... http://www.sharewareconnection.com/3ds-export-for-solid-edge.htm  
00:19.12miqlasAre You always onine on IRC?
00:19.20brlcadmiqlas: okay, no rush and thank you!
00:19.25brlcadyeah, I'm always on irc
00:19.34brlcadif I don't immediately respond, I eventually will
00:19.38miqlasFeel free to give a beer:)
00:19.50brlcadwill certainly!
00:19.59brlcadhope to have the opportunity to some day :)
00:20.23miqlas;)
00:20.28brlcadgood grief.. 200 bucks for a shareware 3ds exporter, heh
00:20.50brlcadespecially given they're probably using openNURBS which did half the work for them
00:21.26miqlas:) good marketing.
00:23.03miqlasBut brlcad you need make something for the cad assembly...
00:23.55brlcadhm?
00:24.21miqlasPlease, make the BRL-CAD to very portable app. We, at in the Haiku commiunity don't like if an app have very special requiments. For example not portable libraryes, flash, or any bloated things.
00:25.03brlcadmiqlas: we have historically been one of the most portable pieces of software out there -- you end up being very portable after 25 years of development
00:25.06miqlasPlease, make the BRL-CAD very nice, and usable, without readin 500 page.
00:25.46brlcadlike I said, we should work now on haiku, at least 99% of our codebase should work just fine
00:26.01brlcadthe latter takes a long time
00:26.30miqlasI like to see more app on Haiku platform, to make it usable for wide userbase, and we need good, stable, and lightweight apps. I know, the BRL-CAD is a "monster", but i hope on someday it will work correctly with Haiku.
00:27.12brlcadmiqlas: think of it more like 400 lightweight apps, that is how it is designed
00:27.12RalithBRL-CAD is a highly portable monster.
00:28.06brlcadmiqlas: the fact that we put them all together is more for distribution convenience, but brl-cad really is a collection of a LOT of applications .. not just one 'monster' application
00:28.17miqlasI read the comments of the mplayer guys, and an developer told: The BeOS and Haiku is a C++ crap, and he don't want support it. Please, never tell anything like this. Lot of people working on this project for free, and i like this os.
00:28.47brlcadheh, not likely
00:28.58brlcadi'm an old-time beos fan, big fan
00:29.10miqlasThen if You don't tell Haiku will never be supported, You can get the assembly for free, with MIT. Thanks.
00:29.12brlcadseeing it survive in any form is a 'good thing'
00:29.46brlcadused to run beos as his primary desktop back in the day
00:29.53brlcadfor the little while it lasted
00:29.58Ralithbrlcad: what attracts you to it?
00:30.07brlcadRalith: ooof!
00:30.11brlcadwhat didn't!
00:30.19*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-67.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
00:30.21miqlasbrlcad, the BRL-CAD was running on BeOS?
00:31.21miqlasRalith : you can check it with Your own eyes, download the image, and write it to Your flashdrive (500 mb is enough) and boot it. It is very cool.
00:31.42brlcadan OS designed from the ground up ditching most of the baggage we have today, geared for absurdly high performance, insane interactivity, impressive filesystem, multithreading dream
00:31.50Ralithmiqlas: don't have that much time atm, and I'd be surprised if it supported my hardware.
00:32.06Ralithbrlcad: sounds cool.  Insane interactivity?
00:32.09brlcadmiqlas: haiku is getting there, but still not yet nearly as impressive as beos was during r5
00:32.14``Erikfully threaded micro?
00:32.51miqlasHaiku: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccniJHjo_Uw and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7vM1Gc6_po
00:33.05miqlasFully threaded, and it use microkernel.
00:33.06brlcadRalith: no matter what you were doing, the system stayed responsive .. nay a hiccup
00:33.10Ralithoo
00:33.11Ralithcool!
00:33.13brlcadlike playing a half-dozen movies
00:33.17brlcadall simultaneously
00:33.24Ralithand haiku is a reimpl?
00:33.27brlcadrendered to the faces of a spinning cube
00:33.34brlcadwhile playing music
00:33.34Ralithwow, way back then?
00:33.38Ralithjesus
00:33.44brlcadand on an all pentium 200
00:33.45Ralithhow did that manage to fail
00:33.49brlcads/all/old/
00:33.57brlcadmarketing and microsoft
00:34.01``Eriktoyed with haiku, never tried be itself, though
00:34.13miqlasBeOS (mother of Haiku) was closed source.
00:34.22``Erikbebox was a neat machine
00:34.36``Erikdual cpu when it was unheard of
00:34.44``Erikand awesome load LED bars on the front :D
00:34.59miqlasYes :)
00:35.39Ralithnow you've got me interested
00:35.39brlcadhaiku is a pretty cool reimplementation, it covers almost all of the original API, included binary compatibility, and has even started to add their own improvements
00:35.41Ralithmiqlas: how's the HW support?
00:35.48miqlasBeOS on dual 300Mhz PII: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv6twfh2SgI
00:36.01brlcadthat's the only hard part af the moment, they're not fully stable, but there is a 1.0 release coming out soon
00:36.09brlcadhardware is hit or miss
00:36.42brlcadand their performance certainly isn't up to par with beos in most areas, but then they're working mostly on functional first
00:36.42miqlasRalith : always better and better. It have native sound + OSS, FreeBSD like net_stack
00:36.47RalithI wish I had reason to believe alternative OSs had a chance :/
00:36.59Ralithbeyond the unixen./
00:37.06brlcadtheir API is still pretty much considered to be one of the best-designed APIs ever
00:37.42Ralithwow damn that was a fast bootup
00:37.53Ralithpretty GUI too
00:37.54brlcadall GUI applications were inherintly multithreaded for example
00:37.59brlcadwithout the dev doing anything really
00:38.14miqlasI have AMD 3000+ Sempron, 1Gb ram, and Haiku boot up under 3-4 seconds.
00:38.14brlcadwhich kept all apps responsive even under heavy load
00:39.03Ralithwants :(
00:39.07miqlasIt can use more core / more CPU. And You can enable/disable them in runtime.
00:39.14brlcadyeah, fast bootups were a beos philosophy -- it was originally almost instantaneous (like less than a second), but even less than 5sec to usable in latter years -- haiku preserves that (woo hoo)
00:39.49miqlasRalith, if You interrested, go to #haiku chanel, here on the Freenode IRC.
00:40.05Ralithmiqlas: is there any interest in ELF support?
00:40.18miqlasSorry, i don't understand.
00:40.28miqlasHaiku have ELF binaries.
00:40.28Ralithlinux binaries
00:40.33Ralithoo
00:40.34brlcadloves the old Be API call.. is_computer_on_fire();
00:40.38Ralithhaha
00:40.39Ralithwassat do
00:40.43brlcadand the other, is_computer_on();
00:40.49miqlasBeOS have ELF binaries too.
00:41.01Ralithmiqlas: cool! Is there Any interest in
00:41.01miqlasis_computer_on() is cool too.
00:41.02Ralither
00:41.11brlcadit returns the temperature of the motherboard if the computer is on fire :)
00:41.12Ralithis there any interest in a linux ABI layer?
00:41.13Ralitha la freebsd
00:41.20Ralithbrlcad: hehe ^^
00:41.23miqlasWhat is ABI?
00:41.27brlcadthe devs had a fantastic sense of humor
00:41.32Ralithawesome!
00:41.32brlcadapplication binary interface
00:41.45Ralithmiqlas: basically, a layer that'd allow linux binaries to run directly.
00:41.51RalithFreeBSD has one, and it's handy.
00:42.01Ralithit'd make it much easier for Haiku to pick up new apps.,
00:42.03brlcadthey're a ways away from that
00:42.05Ralithat least in binary form.
00:42.08miqlasSorry, Ralith, but i'm not a developer, i can't say anything about it. Ask the Haiku dev-s on #haiku.
00:42.08brlcadit doesn't run X11
00:42.24Ralithhm.
00:42.26brlcadso many apps would be useless to it anyways
00:42.28miqlasI think it is not a good idea. It  will be a monster...
00:42.28Ralithit has its own display stuff, doesn't it?
00:42.42brlcadcept for command-line apps, which are generally easy to port regardless
00:42.58brlcadyeah, sort of like mac os x having a custom display system
00:42.59RalithI guess a wrapper API might be feasible, but that's getting to be a wine-scale project.
00:43.00miqlasX11 is portable, and we have an old X11, but we don't like the apps, that require X11.
00:43.10brlcadyet being unixy under the hood
00:43.29Ralithmiqlas: the problem is, as cool as haiku is, I can't see it ever being of more than academic interest :/
00:43.38Ralithit's just so hard for an alternative OS to take off
00:43.51Ralithmaybe in twenty years when everyone's using inherently portable code...
00:43.52brlcadnah, it's a pretty active project with a lot of momentum
00:44.13brlcadyou don't hear about it much only because they're working towards that "first release"
00:44.16Ralithdoes that mean much, when it comes to wider acceptance, even in the long term?
00:44.23miqlasRalith: , i know, this is why i want BRL-CAD for Haiku.
00:44.33Ralithmiqlas: I suppose niche environments is a good place to start.
00:44.42Ralithmake it 'the ultimate CAD platform' and you'd get users.
00:45.15``Erikthe fbsd linuxulator brings its own problem (mostly linux apps being ... well, wrong... improper ELF format, etc)
00:45.24brlcadRalith: the philosophies of the operating system itself and the APIs make it very appealing to most developers
00:45.33Ralith``Erik: it usually works, though.  Even on big stuff.
00:45.46``Erikafter some fussing to unfuck the binaries, yeah
00:46.04brlcadbeos had a pretty substantial developer following, and those devs are still around -- many will gladly jump back on board with the development environment is stable enough to work in
00:46.06``Erikthat i have to do "brandelf -t linux /some/binary" is bad
00:46.11Ralithbrlcad: hm, I imagine that'd help, but, well... look at WinAPI vs. unix APIs.  Quite a big margin, but windows won out originally, and it's taking ages to win back.
00:46.23brlcaduntil the 1.0 release, it's a bit of a time drain because you have to wade through other issues
00:46.36miqlasI don'tlike the Linux philosophy, for example there is ProE, but if You have wrong libc, You can't run, there is lot of branches, lot of distros, there is no unified thing.
00:46.44Ralithmiqlas: yeah linux has lots of problems
00:46.47RalithI'm not saying it's good.
00:46.51Ralithbut it's successful.
00:46.54Ralith(and an improvement on windows)
00:47.43``Erik"less bad than windows", aim for the stars, man ;) *duck*
00:47.52brlcadRalith: it also depends how you determine "won out" .. if you're talking about massive > 50% popularity, sure -- in that regard unix was never really even a contender
00:48.20brlcadold mac os (before os x) was the only real contender, and be os for all of a year
00:48.44brlcadlatter being arguable at that
00:48.51Ralithbrlcad: well, I can't easily see a fourth unique OS easily making more than 1%.
00:49.09``Erikyou're gonna irk an amiga fan somewhere talkin' like that, brlcad :)
00:49.14Ralithlol
00:49.21brlcadgood!
00:49.29brlcadpeople should be irk'd more about their OS
00:49.46brlcadthey waste a lot of our time, more than many of the apps run on them
00:50.29Ralithheh
00:50.44miqlasGuys, what You think about CATIA V6?
00:50.58RalithIn Jan 31, 2009, Haiku obtained a native GCC4 port; this allows modern applications, like Firefox 3, to be built on Haiku.
00:51.01Ralithooooh.
00:51.02``Erikwindows has set the bar awfully low :( it's not acceptable to have to pop the hood and fiddle with the engine every time you want to drive somewhere, or bust out the multimeter whenever you want to watch tv... but *shrug*
00:51.14Ralith``Erik: I agree.
00:51.17Ralithbut it's where we are.
00:51.24brlcadmiqlas: about the same as what I think about a tree stump
00:51.50miqlasWhat You think about the tree stump?
00:51.52brlcadkind of an open-ended bait question :)
00:51.58``Erikyou... want to build a treehouse on catia?
00:52.00brlcaddepends entirely what we're talking about
00:52.23miqlasBRL-CAD is parametric or not?
00:52.42brlcadno, parametric support is being worked on now
00:52.48brlcad~seen madant
00:52.50ibotmadant <n=d@117.196.133.180> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 2d 10h 21m 48s ago, saying: 'so not so much a of NEWs maybe.. '.
00:52.54miqlasWow! I like the parametric modelling.
00:52.56brlcadby that guy
00:53.42brlcadthis is his work planned for this summer: http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Homovulgaris
00:53.53miqlasIs tehere any kinematic solver in BRL-CAD?
00:53.57brlcad(low-level developer speak)
00:54.05brlcadthere is a very very basic one
00:54.47``Erikthe joint constraint stuff?
00:54.48brlcadit's a basic forward-kinematic system
00:54.50brlcadyeah
00:57.56miqlasbrlcad: thanks for the informations, an Guys thanks for the talk. But now here is 02:57.
00:58.00miqlasI need to sleep.
00:58.03Ralithseeya
00:58.17brlcadcya
00:58.55miqlasbrlcad : morning i try to convert the assembly to step,and i send to You.
00:59.24brlcadokay, awesome
00:59.27``Eriknight, miqlas :)
00:59.37miqlasNight for everybody.
01:00.55Ralithdamn, haiku looks really cool.
01:01.01Ralithwants to play with it now.
01:01.02miqlas;D
01:01.10Ralithhmm.
01:01.21Ralithdoes anyone know if AMD ever made good on their promise to open their hardware docs?
01:01.31Ralithfor the video cards
01:01.36Ralithfor 3D accel
01:02.08miqlasRalith: : http://www.haiku-os.org/community/forum/how_to_install_haiku_to_usb_flash_drive_from_windows
01:02.47Ralithmiqlas: I'm not on windows :P
01:02.50Ralithunfortunately.
01:03.24Ralithis there a list of supported hardware out there anywhere?
01:03.31``Erikgrab qemu and set it up with something boring? :)
01:03.45Ralithhehe
01:03.46miqlassudo dd if=haiku.image of=/dev/sda (SDx is a DEVICE,  not a partition!!)
01:03.50Raliththat's not as fun as running it natively
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01:04.05Ralithmiqlas: I'd rather not overwrite my system.
01:04.29miqlasRalith : http://haikuware.com/hardware-database/
01:06.45miqlasMy Haiku desktop: http://mellbimbo.eu/view-d77595203e5fcf31336d52acff527378.html
01:06.46``Erikhuzzah, my ld is brokne
01:06.53Ralithmiqlas: can it, theoretically, do 3D accel?
01:07.02Ralithassuming someone writes a driver
01:07.19miqlasThere is software and hardware accelerated (Nvidia) OGL.
01:07.37miqlasSoftware powered by MESA.
01:07.42Ralith...WHAT
01:07.48Ralithhow did they pull that off
01:08.01miqlasSorry, i don't understand.
01:08.08Ralithhow did they get 3D accel on nvidia hw?
01:08.18miqlasIt is a magic :)
01:08.25Ralithexplainnnnn
01:09.06miqlasMESA software rendering attached to low level nvidia driver,
01:09.12Ralithno I mean
01:09.16Ralithhow did they write an nvidia driver
01:09.21Raliththat's undocumented hw
01:09.25brlcadmiqlas: heh, cute desktop
01:09.28miqlasReverse engineering is the answer.
01:09.36Raliththat's some crazy reverse engineering
01:09.42Ralithhow many cards does it support?
01:10.23miqlasAnother desktop by me: http://mellbimbo.eu/view-f823600c444123689f6a1864e8e812bd.html (old!)
01:10.38miqlasUp to 8600Gt, if i know correctly.
01:11.34Ralithjesus
01:11.40Ralithboth my laptop and my desktop would be supported!
01:11.48RalithI'm totally installing this in dual-boot if I can work out how
01:12.25miqlasRalith : http://haiku.it.su.se:8180/source/xref/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/graphics/nvidia/driver.c  <- supported cards.
01:12.30Ralithty
01:12.40Ralither
01:12.41RalithAGP :|
01:12.47Ralithno PCIe?
01:13.58brlcadRalith: keep in mind .. this is basically "pre-alpha"
01:14.04Ralithbrlcad: I know
01:14.18RalithI'm utterly amazed it has nvidia support
01:14.40Ralithjust thinkign about how awesome it'd be to have full accel.,
01:14.42miqlasI don't have PCIe, only AGP, but i tested my roomates's computer, it works with PCIe
01:14.47Ralithooo
01:14.54Ralith:D
01:15.19Ralithany tips on rigging grub up for it?
01:15.40miqlasRalith: , sorry i don't understand Yopu :(
01:16.00Ralithgrub's a bootloader suitable for dualbooting
01:16.24miqlasYes, but i never tested it with Haiku. I thin it require chainload setting.
01:16.43Ralithany docs you can point me at?
01:16.51RalithI'm eager to try this, but not so much to make my system unbootable >_>
01:17.07Raliththough I suppose only so much can go wrong if I get the partition resizing right
01:17.23miqlashttp://www.haiku-os.org/documents/dev/installing_haiku_to_a_partition_from_linux
01:17.48Ralithperfect!
01:17.49Raliththanks.
01:18.13Ralithnow I just need to find some time to tweak my partition scheme.
01:18.35miqlasThis tell, how to build, but You don't need build it, there is precompiled images on the net here: http://haiku-files.org/raw/
01:19.06Ralithoo, nightlies
01:19.30Ralithbrbs for food
01:20.13miqlasNvidia informations: http://haiku.it.su.se:8180/source/xref/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/graphics/nvidia/README.html
01:20.42miqlaslast updated on June 10, 2008...
01:20.49miqlasNight, Guys!
01:21.09miqlasRalith : be careful, don't make a brick from Your computer :)
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01:34.20yukonbobhello, cadheads
01:45.17Ralithmiqlas: so long as it doesn't scramble my nvram or something.
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04:26.03starseekerRalith: one thing to remember about Haiku - if Gtk/Qt are ported to it cleanly, that gives you a LOT of the better open source programs almost for free.
04:26.23Ralithtrue.
04:26.34starseekerthe difficulty with one "free" OS taking on another is usually the "user experience" is the same
04:26.46starseekere.g. Gnome/KDE/Windowmaker/etc. on top of X
04:26.53Ralithnot so, here.
04:27.07starseekermm?
04:27.23Ralither, haiku doesn't use those.
04:27.27starseekerright
04:27.28Ralithunless I'm drastically misled.
04:27.39Ralithplus there's the whole instaboot thing
04:27.45starseekerthat's the key - it is potentially a radical improvment in desktop experience
04:27.57Ralithyeah, I think it's really got my attention.
04:28.12Ralithlooks like it, infact, does *not* have 3D accel anywhere yet, though.
04:28.26Ralithno surprise, but it'd've been neat
04:28.37starseekerX plus $KERNEL "feels" the same - BeOS gui + massive multithreading is better :-)
04:28.37starseekerah, right
04:28.47starseekerwould not expect 3D accel yet
04:29.19starseekereven on Linux that only works "well" with nvidia drivers
04:29.23Ralithindeed.
04:29.31Raliththough I imagine it won't be long till the AMD docs are implemented.
04:29.38starseekergrins
04:29.40Ralith?
04:29.46starseekerthat will be AWESOME
04:29.54Ralither, why?
04:29.59RalithI mean, more hardware support is good and all...
04:30.08starseekerwill make his next graphics card purchase an AMD card if they do have proper open drivers
04:30.20RalithI suppose it is a pretty big first.
04:30.27Ralithit looks like there's an effort to port gallium3d to haiku
04:30.38Ralithso I'm hoping that someone'll port the AMD drivers to that, once they exist
04:30.45Ralithand then the haiku devs won't have to do anything else
04:30.52Raliththey seem to be taking a very pragmatic attitude to hardware support
04:31.01starseekeroh, I should think that'll be a logical (in fact, THE logical) target
04:31.24starseekerthe only other candidate is probably opengraphics, if they ever get off the ground
04:31.25Ralithported OSS for sound, wrapping FreeBSD drivers for wifi and networking...
04:32.06Ralithstarseeker: that's their own hardware, isn't it?
04:32.15starseekerwhich, opengraphics?
04:32.17Ralithyeah
04:32.48starseekerthat's these guys:  http://wiki.opengraphics.org/tiki-index.php
04:32.55Ralithyeah, I'm looking
04:32.59Ralithlooks like hardware to me
04:33.03starseekeryep
04:33.18Raliththat'd be neat but, well, I doubt it'll compare to the big two's products.
04:33.26starseekerwon't be up to latest AMD/NVIDIA specs, but a truly open and well supported driver would be Very Nice
04:33.35Ralithindeed.
04:33.43Ralithbut only for a subset of uses.
04:33.43starseekerparticularly with regards to stability
04:33.47starseekersure.
04:33.56starseekerbut that subset probably includes most desktop level effects
04:34.01Ralithtrue, true
04:34.03starseekerala enlightenment bling
04:34.09Ralithenlightenment runs in software :P
04:34.16starseekerfor now :-)
04:34.16Ralithat least, last time I checked.
04:34.30Ralithbut yes, bling is good.
04:34.32starseekeriirc, he claims to get better performance that way because linux 3d support sucks so bad
04:34.40Ralithheh
04:34.44Ralithactually
04:34.46RalithI talked with a dev about it
04:34.51Ralithit's not cuz linux 3d support sucks, iirc
04:34.58starseekeroh really?
04:34.59Ralithit's cuz running multiple OpenGL contexts in parallel sucks I think?
04:35.03starseekerah
04:35.20Ralithcuz all hardware is designed on the assumption that there's only one
04:35.23Ralitheven though that's not spec
04:35.46starseekerenter opengraphics - where you can fix the design yourself :-)
04:36.15starseekerhas a hope that a working opengraphics design might be (eventually) compressed to be a sort of default "on motherboard" option
04:36.34starseekervga on steroids or some such
04:36.54starseekerthen you can add in the big bad commercial boys for heavy duty 3D accel
04:37.56starseekerinteresting statement here:  http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/help-the-open-graphics-project
04:38.05starseekerhas also had thoughts about "fully open" computers
04:39.46starseekerheh - someone should design a computer case as an open cad model
04:40.52Raliththat wouldn't be hard
04:40.59starseekerwell, a good one would take some work
04:41.00Ralithespecially if you didn't mind how it looked
04:41.09starseekerit must look awesome :-)
04:41.14Ralithaw.
04:41.57starseekercall it... OpenCase ;-)
04:43.44starseekerthen you could use an OpenSparc cpu - make an "OpenSparc Inside" sticker :-P
04:44.05starseekerwonders if anyone manufactures those, come to think of it
04:48.29starseekervia has the OpenBook model, but that's for a laptop
04:48.35starseekeralso need a desktop
04:50.54Ralithstill, pretty good start.
04:51.28starseekerit is
04:51.35starseekera LOT of pieces needed though
04:51.39Ralithespecially considering the corporate backing.
04:51.47Ralithtrue, but we seem to be on the way...
04:51.59starseekerfor a truly open motherboard, for example, would need...
04:52.09starseekeropen RAM chips
04:52.16starseekeropen CPU socket design
04:52.24Ralithopen ICs in general seems like it'd be kind of hard :/
04:52.47Ralithunless a cascade of openness sweeps across the hardware industry
04:53.51starseekerwell you would need at least one of every key part of the system
04:53.59starseekeropenhardware has some
04:55.18starseekereven if you had all the designs, the trick would be getting the parts made
04:55.25starseekerthe up front costs are huge
04:56.30starseekermaybe someday though - there are still some really good hardware hackers lurking out there
04:56.35Ralithyeah, which is why I don't see it happening unless someone talks the corporations into it.
04:56.39starseekernods
04:56.44Ralithbut that's been done before.
04:56.47Ralithmany times.
04:56.56Ralithalbeit not inhardware, most cases.
04:56.59Ralithbut hey, then there's via!
04:57.31starseekerit would probably need to be someone who needed the component for some non-traditional purpose and was willing to do an open design to get it cheap
04:58.20starseekerif the Haiku guys can eventually get the old BeOS performance on low(er) end hardware, it might help to make a truly open computer viable
04:58.35Ralithany old BeOS devs working on the project?
05:00.31starseekerdunno
05:01.19starseekerone idea I'm sorry no one put forward before Oracle bought Sun was to suggest Sun expand its open hardware program to include entire older generation PC specifications
05:01.33starseekerRalith: probably old BeOS devs would have IP issues
05:02.25Raliththe people who might care are still around?
05:02.43starseekeryou mean BeOS devs?
05:02.55starseekeror you mean Oracle/Sun?
05:03.04RalithBeOS
05:03.15Ralithof course the people who care about open hardware are around :P
05:03.37starseekersure - but I'm guessing Sun would have been more willing to entertain the idea before they got bought
05:04.03starseekerI'd imagine there are some of the old BeOS devs floating around, but I don't really know
05:04.14starseekereeek.  OK, must sleep now
05:05.37Ralithkk, night
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08:33.54miqlasbrlcad : are You here?
08:40.45Ralithmiqlas: that driver you linked me was for 2d -_-
08:41.17miqlasRalith, if You check the readme, it tells there is basic 3d support for some older videocard.
08:41.31Ralithmiqlas: 'basic 3d support for some older videocard' is not 3D accel.
08:41.42miqlas"Basic 3D acceleration for older cards: see the seperately available 3D accelerant's documentation for details;"
08:42.02Ralithalso, not only is that a 2d driver, it's an unmaintained one which stopped working some time ago, according to #haiku.
08:42.21Ralithas part of the move to Mesa 7
08:42.32Ralithwhich does support acceleration, but has no implementations of it.
08:42.36miqlasSorry, i can't know everything :)
08:42.49Ralith'k
08:43.05Ralithnevertheless, cool looking OS.
08:43.18miqlasBut it give bigger score in OGLTeapot :)
08:48.29Ralithsleeps
08:51.29miqlaswhat is the good word for an technican draw? It is good for assembly? Sorry, the english is not my native language..
08:56.28Ralithmiqlas: diagram?  blueprint?  People just say 'technical drawing' most of the time, I think.
08:57.24miqlasThis is a 3d cad assembly. The "CAD assembly" good for this?
08:57.55miqlasAnd i need change the MIT license text? (software -> CAD assembly)?
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08:59.07RalithIf in legal text, I'd refer to it with more encompassing terms, e.g. 'CAD file'
08:59.22Ralithand the MIT license may be best left alone, but for a definitive answer wait for brlcad
08:59.29Ralith(i.e. used as-is)
08:59.37Ralith(but I'm sure it can wait a few hours for him to show)
09:00.59miqlasOkay.
09:01.05miqlasI need to go now.
09:01.06miqlasBye!
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09:24.40mafm_hi there
09:45.39pacman87morning, mafm
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10:32.18d-loMornin all!
10:43.35mafmmernin
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14:27.41starseekertook a stab at Haiku + vmplayer, but must wait due to needing to play with kernel modules
14:31.18``Erikhttp://blogs.zdnet.com/community/?p=234
14:31.31brlcadyep, just finished reading it :)
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14:32.19brlcadhowdy hippieindamakin8
14:33.08``Erikthe different perspective and explicit pointing out of correlations and implications may help some people *shrug* :) I figured it may be valuable for some folk to read
14:34.47brlcadyeah, few key sentences in there
14:34.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34304 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/: ignore prodigal binaries
14:36.23hippieindamakin8hey brlcad  :)
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15:02.42``Erik*headache* why won't people just fucking let waterfall die
15:03.30_clock_didaktik je vsudypritomny
15:11.18brlcadhippieindamakin8: question about your patch -- did you test that on anything?
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15:54.41hippieindamakin8brlcad, not on a test object,just checked for compilation errors. planned on doing it post endsemester exams
15:54.50brlcadah, okay
15:55.39hippieindamakin8i ll get back to u on 30th after testing it . sorry for not doing that
15:56.03brlcadit's okay
15:56.32brlcadi was just looking at myself, and didn't look like it'd compile
15:56.44hippieindamakin8thanks
15:59.19hippieindamakin8brlcad, is it ?
16:01.08hippieindamakin8i ll just verify everything and get back to you then. with the results
16:03.41madanthippieindamakin8: 30th is the D-day ? getting out of iit finally ;) ?
16:03.57hippieindamakin8madant, no :)
16:04.08hippieindamakin8i dropped a course just before the endsems
16:04.24madantdamn, what do you have to do then ?
16:04.30hippieindamakin8it is better to drop it rather than flunk it. so i ll do it next semester
16:05.02madantyikes, so you have to stay a semester for a course :O ?
16:05.12madantyou were dead sure you were going to flunk it :O ?
16:05.43hippieindamakin8madant, yeah the prof the last time when he took the course gave an F at the average score.
16:06.13madantthinks psycho profs are the bane of good education :D
16:10.35hippieindamakin8madant, its the other way round. they dont want people to fiddle around with the real world stuff with this average knowledge
16:11.33madantnever had that bad or good profs :)
16:12.21madantbrlcad, though art my mentor :) and elena goes to d-lo ?
16:12.41madantoops i meant thou art my mentor .. :D
16:13.59hippieindamakin8is compiling the package again
16:16.41brlcadmadant: for logistics tracking, yeah
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16:17.38brlcadhippieindamakin8: yeah, BU_PTBL_INS doesn't look right
16:18.09madantbrlcad: awesome :) i'll get my act together immediately
16:19.44hippieindamakin8it is of the type int , but in this file tankill-g.c it has been used this way:  /* save the face in a table */
16:19.44hippieindamakin8<PROTECTED>
16:21.21brlcadwell, it's going to crash -- you never initialize the nmg_vertices (or any of th bu_ptbl's)
16:22.29brlcadsimilarly, you don't allocate or initialize the struct vertex
16:23.13hippieindamakin8brlcad, oops i ll just correct the code and send it to you
16:23.25hippieindamakin8brlcad, just discard it for now.
16:23.43brlcadokay
16:23.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34305 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_misc.c: ws, indent, style consistency cleanup
16:23.49brlcadotherwise, it looks like you were going down the right track I think
16:24.41hippieindamakin8yeah i was in a hurry not to care abt the memory issues. i ll just add them up. and submit the patch agaon
16:26.05brlcadhippieindamakin8: there's an old junk routine that does almost exactly what that routine needs to do
16:26.16brlcadthough it reads from a file iirc
16:26.26brlcadyeah... nmg_polytonmg()
16:26.31brlcadin nmg_junk.c
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16:26.51brlcadthere you can see the GET_VERTEX allocation and setting the magic to init it
16:26.59miqlasHello brlcad!
16:27.03miqlasDo You got the mail?
16:27.04hippieindamakin8aah i have taken the observations/procedure from ascii to nmg.c
16:27.07brlcadhowdy miqlas !
16:27.08brlcadyeah, I got it
16:27.16brlcadfantabulous
16:27.19miqlasCan BRL-CAD open it?
16:27.31hippieindamakin8i ll check nmg_junk.c
16:27.40miqlasPlease, send me a screenshoot about it, if You can...
16:27.42brlcadheh, not as a step file .. that's the converter presently being implemented :)
16:27.52brlcadbut I can' go through another path and import it to show you
16:28.35miqlasI can provide .iges and .stl file too.
16:28.51brlcadthat would be awesome
16:28.56brlcadsave me some time
16:29.13miqlasDo You need the .stl and .iges file?
16:29.30brlcadyeah, both would be great
16:29.44brlcadwe have importers for those to already
16:30.38hippieindamakin8brlcad , right. it is mostly what i need.
16:30.47miqlasit is cca. 40 mb...
16:31.16brlcadmiqlas: can upload via ftp to brlcad.org/incoming
16:31.32miqlasokay. i try...
16:31.48miqlasi'm compressing wit rar, it is ok for You?
16:32.02miqlasNo it is only 4 mb :)
16:32.09brlcadthat's fine
16:32.17miqlas40 Mb->4 Mb. Good... :)
16:34.56miqlasupload finished.
16:35.09miqlasplease, check the archive..
16:35.50miqlasCan i ask, the USa military use the BRL-CAD yet?
16:36.03brlcadokay, will check
16:36.07brlcadyeah, for more than 20 years
16:36.11brlcadactively using it
16:36.21miqlasOkay. Thanks.
16:36.49miqlasbrlcad, did You checked the license text? it is good?
16:37.41brlcadlooked good to me
16:38.42hippieindamakin8brlcad, madant : see you soon
16:39.03hippieindamakin8gets back to studying taking note of what he has to correct in the patch.
16:40.20brlcadstarseeker: you should have access on the site now
16:40.35brlcadcreated a new core contributor role that should give nearly complete access
16:40.59brlcadyou basically create a new story and promote it to the main page
16:41.29brlcadfeel free to fix the captcha when you notice the bug.. :)
16:48.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34306 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_junk.c: major cleanup upon remembering nmg_polytonmg() in the junk file. possible approach for a bot-to-nmg routine. while we're in here, clean up the ws/style and rip out all the dead code for heaps and groups.
16:49.46starseekerbrlcad: cool!  thanks
16:54.15CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34307 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_junk.c: add missing headers so the file will actually compile, make all of the routines static just so someone doesn't try to use them, and add a big freaking warning about the routines not being vetted for use yet.
16:55.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34308 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_junk.c: de-knrify
16:56.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34309 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/Makefile.am:
16:56.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: enable compilation of the nmg_junk.c source file so that the source can stay in
16:56.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: sync with the API. all routines in there are static, so strictly speaking
16:56.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: compiling the file isn't necessary, but it will help the sources stay updated.
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17:14.14d-logo go gadget brlcad.
17:21.30brlcadhehe, fantastic.. http://www.tgdaily.com/html_tmp/content-view-42154-181.html
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17:21.53brlcadhello joe
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19:19.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34310 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
19:19.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: topic came up again today, expand on the need for a 3d plot object primitive.
19:19.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: ideally/probably needs to support points, lines, polylines, arcs, circles,
19:19.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: spline curves, and text. the _plot() callbacks should then return a plot object
19:19.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: instead of the current vlist/polyline data that it returns. all sorts of
19:19.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: implications and benefits including automatic wireframe LoD and optimized
19:19.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: representation.
19:22.48``Erikwonders if there's too much duplication in brlcads notional outline... isn't a circle just an arc that goes all the way around? isn't an arc a case of spline? isn't a line a case of spline? isn't a polyline a set of lines? O.o
19:23.43brlcadyes, mathematically tis true -- but from a modeling and capturing intent perspective, the subclasses are useful to record (and it's much less data)
19:24.11brlcadit's also pretty much the standard set of specific entities supported by drafting systems
19:24.45``Erikhm, but should it be explicitely broken out into seperate entities, or should, say, 'gimmealine()' create a spline that just happsnt o have 0 length control vectors at each endpoint?
19:24.55``Erikhappens to
19:25.08``Erikis the memory savings worth the added complexity?
19:25.42brlcadyou have to have the complexity anyways for the N types, it's rather minimal
19:26.05brlcadnot like they have ray-tracing hooks, for example
19:26.15brlcadand if we import from another system, it's a faithful import
19:26.23``Erik*shrug* I'm just jabbering to try to sound smart :) something that might be worth considering if it hasn't been
19:27.24``Erikbeing able to send that kinda info to the raytracer might be useful once we start adding drafting capabilities
19:28.50``Erik(mebbe as a post-frame overlay)
19:32.29brlcadanother possibility would be to have each object be its own object in the db, given them all their own non-geometry entity code ala iges/step/dxf .. but that really goes down a road I'm not keen on
19:33.08brlcadhm.. http://www.plasticproto.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=26&Itemid=34&lang=en
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19:37.57brlcadalso interesting.. http://www.harmonyware.com/step_supported.html
19:38.57brlcadbasically a subset of that list, the 3D non-surface/non-solid/non-reference entities
19:46.42``Erikhehehe "yak shaving" I like that :D
20:02.24brlcadanother option altogether is for _plot() to go away and _brep() take its place
20:05.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34311 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: few more entities (thx collada)
20:23.53``Erikhuh http://smacklet.com/
21:03.43archivisthave you left that page up for a complete period ``Erik  :)
21:03.55``Erikyeah heh
21:04.00``ErikI had "drink coffee" on mine
21:04.01``Erik:D
21:04.33archivistI had a step back from what you are doing (i put nothing)
21:08.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34312 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_junk.c: quell symbol error, nmg_isect_edge3p_shell doesn't exist
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090425

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090425

00:42.24starseekerhs extremely evil though - if GM is forced to declare bankruptcy, what happens to their CAD system?
00:43.44starseeker'course, if it's anything like their cars it may not matter much...
00:44.09Ralithperhaps a donation-funded organization representing the oss CAD community could purchase the IP :D
00:45.25``Erikif gm goes 11, their assets are auctioned and someone buys the chunk that owns the cad IP
00:46.10starseekerbids $20
00:46.48``ErikFI DORRA!
00:53.57Ralithwe could pull a blender
01:56.13brlcadnot likely, their CAD system is worth a whole lot more (by a couple orders) than blender was before open source
01:57.44brlcadeither way, not bloody likely anything would happen to it other than getting retained as someone else's IP
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01:58.01archivistuse Zimbabwe dollars then they have bigger numbers
02:06.23rbfish2khi
02:06.31rbfish2ki am compiling brlcad in cygwin
02:06.34rbfish2kbut i got the error:
02:06.40rbfish2kIn file included from /home/ken/rbfish2k/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tk/unix/../generic/tkButton.c:19:
02:06.41rbfish2k/home/ken/rbfish2k/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tk/unix/../generic/default.h:21:29: tkWinDefault.h: No such file or directory
02:06.49rbfish2kanyone can help me out?
02:11.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34313 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (cmd.h setup.c): doesn't seem to be any need for mged_cmdtab to be non-static any longer.
02:13.19brlcadrbfish2k: yeah, you need to modify the header search paths (CPPFLAGS) to include -Isrc/other/tk/win
02:14.47brlcadwhat's peculiar is that should already be happening
02:15.16rbfish2ki should first do something like "export CPPFLAGS=-Isrc/other/tk/win"?
02:15.55brlcadno
02:16.33brlcadtry this first: grep TK_CPPFLAGS src/other/Makefile
02:18.26rbfish2know it is "TK_CPPFLAGS = -I${top_srcdir}/src/other/tk/generic -I${top_srcdir}/src/other/tk/unix -I${top_srcdir}/src/other/tk/win".
02:18.28rbfish2kcorrect?
02:18.32brlcadyes
02:18.45brlcadso it's just not using that TK_CPPFLAGS in the tk build
02:19.03brlcadtry: cd src/other/tk
02:19.55brlcadgrep top_srcdir Makefile
02:19.55brlcadwhat's that give?
02:20.12brlcad(the first one)
02:20.26brlcadprobably ../../.. ?
02:20.39rbfish2kyes, you are right.
02:21.24rbfish2khow can i fix the problem?
02:21.25brlcadif so, run this after the cd:  CPPFLAGS="-I../../../src/other/tk/generic -I../../../src/other/tk/win -I../../../src/other/tk/unix" make
02:21.58rbfish2kthanks. let me try.
02:22.12PrezKennedyIIbrlcad, what are you doing here on a Friday night??
02:22.14brlcadthe only way to fix the problem is to get that  -I../../../src/other/tk/win  passed into the build
02:22.16rbfish2kbut it takes me some time to complete "configure".
02:22.25brlcadPrezKennedyII: same thing I do every friday night!
02:22.33brlcadtry to take over the world!
02:22.48brlcadrbfish2k: I didn't say run configure did I?
02:22.58brlcadI gave you the exact command....
02:23.08rbfish2kbut the make is doing it automatically
02:23.15rbfish2kafter i ran "svn up"
02:23.18brlcadbah
02:23.22brlcadthen all bets are off :)
02:23.41brlcadnot my fault you did that :P
02:23.57rbfish2kit is fine. it will take me about 8 minutes.
02:24.01brlcadouch
02:24.06rbfish2kmy computer is not so fast.
02:24.34PrezKennedyIIbrlcad, has anyone tried running it on Windows 7 yet?
02:24.47brlcaddon't know
02:24.51brlcadnot I
02:25.45brlcadrbfish2k: if that doesn't work -- retry configure with --with-cppflags="-I/absolute/path/to/brlcad/src/other/tk/win"
02:26.29rbfish2kmake failed even after i ran "export CPPFLAGS="-I../../../src/other/tk/generic -I../../../src/other/tk/win -I../../../src/other/tk/unix""
02:26.36rbfish2klet me re-configure it
02:26.38brlcaddidn't say export :P
02:26.45brlcadthat was a one-liner
02:27.11brlcadif that didn't work, you swap CPPFLAGS after 'make' but still one-liner
02:27.38brlcadand it's not just a blind try, you're looking to see it put that -I onto the compile
02:27.46brlcadif you don't see it do that, of course it won't work
02:28.13rbfish2ki understand.
02:28.19rbfish2kit looks better now.
02:28.21brlcadif you have to, you can manually run the build command within src/other/tk/unix/ and add the -I yourself
02:28.31brlcadvia copy-paste
02:28.41PrezKennedyIIbrlcad, that would be a negatory
02:30.40rbfish2kmake is complaining "/bin/sh: /home/ken/rbfish2k/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/unix/tclsh85.exe: No such file or directory"
02:31.31rbfish2kand
02:31.35rbfish2kjove_main.c:640: error: storage size of 'tty' isn't known
02:31.38rbfish2kjove_main.c:653: error: `TIOCSETN' undeclared (first use in this function)
02:47.30starseekerbrlcad: true, someone would buy the GM CAD system.  Although, given how much $$ the American public (via their elected officials) have sunk into GM, if it does go belly up perhaps the public could enter a collective claim on the CAD part ;-)
02:47.55starseekerafter all, that's one asset every US citizen could get a copy of (in theory) :-P
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08:12.48mafmhi there
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14:56.55brlcadyawns
15:08.54starseekerchuckles - the g-dxf succeeded on the tire, but left out the tread
15:11.17brlcadcool
15:11.28brlcadmaybe you can get the tread to convert by itsel
15:12.04pooliomornin' all
15:12.46starseekerhmm
15:12.48starseekertries that
15:14.47starseekerdb_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/tread-215-55R17.c/tread_master-215-55R17.c/extrude2-7-215-55R17'
15:29.15brlcadexists?
15:34.57starseekerseems to
15:35.55starseekerall the individual components do, and extrude2-7-215-55R17 shows up in tread_master-215-55R17.c
15:36.28starseekerI can e up both tread_master and tread without trouble in mged
16:02.05``Erikif I can clone a stairmaster instance, does that mean I dont' have to do the exercise myself?
16:19.39starseekerwow - even without the tread (and with a very course tesselation) the file size of the tesselated .g is 10x that of the the CSG
16:26.19``Erikthat's it?
16:27.18``ErikI mean, a sphere is what, 4 floats, 16 bytes... a tesselated sphere in any unsuck representation is at LEAST say 20 faces, so a lot more flaots... :D morethan 10x
16:27.38``Erikand an isocohedron is an awfully crude sphere
16:30.43starseekeroh, this looks pretty sucky
16:30.49starseekerraytraces...
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16:43.22starseekerhttp://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/tire_tesselation_attempt.png
16:43.54starseekeractually that's only the inner surface, so that size estimate is probably low by ~2x, even leaving out the tread
16:59.45bjorkintoshit's a video game, but i think this looks pretty damned cool! http://pjotr.stacken.kth.se/love/tool_demo_gdc_2009.mp4
17:12.51brlcadstarseeker: note that with g-dxf, it's going to make nmgs .. i.e polygons, not just triangles
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19:40.15brlcadjdoliner: his name is William, but he doesn't go by that -- he goes by Keith
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20:34.07elenahi
20:35.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 0389.136.118.141 07http://brlcad.org * r1436 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009: /* MoRe.brlcad.org 2 */
20:44.09brlcadmust run out for a bit but .. hello elena, congrats!
20:47.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 0389.136.118.141 07http://brlcad.org * r1437 10/wiki/User:EBautu: Initial page
20:50.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 0389.136.118.141 07http://brlcad.org * r1438 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009: /* MoRe.brlcad.org 2 */
21:32.45``Erik*yawn*
21:48.47elenayawns, too
21:49.10elenahi brlcad, sorry I mised you.
21:58.25``Erik*readreadread* so 'MoRe' has a lot of dependancy on the uploader adding correct information? do you envision .g file construction/deconstruction (say to abstract out common objects)?
21:59.25``Erikwill there be any kind of notion of 'karma' or 'rating' in the system?
21:59.42``Erik<-- is just thinking noisily and half playing devils advocate, btw
22:06.06elenarating - maybe.
22:06.20elenabut i'd tend to do it for models
22:06.29elenanot for users
22:06.48elenawhat do you mean by correct information?
22:08.14elenado you think karma for users would be helpfull? I don't see it as a big feature
22:08.26elenabut maybe I'm wrong.
22:09.21elenawe could have the user rating as an average of the ratings of the user's models
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22:32.21elenagoes to bed.
22:32.23elenabye
22:32.29*** part/#brlcad elena (n=ebautu@89.136.118.141)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090426

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090426

03:52.19starseeker<snort> 12 hours on the tread, and it gives me one set around the tire (out of seven or eight)
03:54.32starseekerjust that one was 180k
03:57.30starseekerif it had done the whole thing it would probably be ~1 meg
03:59.53starseekerat a guess, 1.4 megabytes for the tire/wheel combo
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12:28.12``Erik*yawn*
12:48.06brlcad*yawn*
13:09.52``Erikheh, jon lajoie
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13:11.02``Erikguess some people aren't appreciative of his work O.o :D
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14:50.07elenahi
15:16.45``Erikgood morning
15:23.17``Eriksurpose you had access to a 4.3bsd system with an old BRL-CAD, via telnet or a web interface or something... what would you expect?
15:23.45``Erik(we're talkin' vax 11/780 tuned down to actual speed here)
15:38.55elena@``Erik: you mentioned something about user provided information yesterday. what were you refering about?
15:46.23``Erikum, your proposed plan involves the uploading agent to provide information... what if they give bad information (via either malice or incompetence)
15:46.51``Erik"hey, here's a box! visit my website at http://spamfest.com"
15:46.54``Erik:)
15:48.24``ErikI imagine the 'MoRe' notion is more about building a community with some tools to police it than a piece of software itself... if the policing part isn't defined, you risk despotism, no?
15:51.16elenaright.
15:51.37elenaautomatic spam can be caught.
15:52.02``Erik99% of the time, yes, with only 1-2% false positive rate
15:52.03``Erik:)
15:52.08elenamanual spam will have to be reported by users.
15:52.37elenaand dealt with like with any other "bad" user
15:53.41elenaI haven't yet went into details with starseeker (my mentor), but we'll have to analyze the human resources we have for model administration.
15:54.01elenadepending on that we'll decide how open/close the submission will be.
15:54.16elenaI'd expect it to be quite open.
15:55.02elenathe "report a problem" or the rating system will take care of penalyzing bad submissions.
15:55.09``Erikmy goal is to expose possible thought paths that may not be opened otherwise... *shrug* if I make you stop and think, I've succeeded :)
15:55.16elenawhat's your oppinion about that?
15:55.32``ErikI kinda think your project is not really a software project, but a community project
15:56.13``Erikand every community will have heroes and villians... how do you find/reward/punish those?
15:57.13elenalike in any other open community. we rely on the comunity to spot them out :)
15:57.26``Erikthe "penalizing" of bad submissions and rewarding of good submissions might need some more explicit detail
15:58.58elenafor the start, good models will get promoted.
15:59.00``ErikI'm a code monkey... if you don't submit, you don't exist. if you submit bad stuff, you're a piece of shit. if you submit good stuff, eventually you get nerdpoints and people listen to you... I think you're trying to build a modeler equivelant as part of your software, I'm not sure you've addressed the fundamental aspects in your proposal yet... *shrug* I could be wrong, I'm just a code monkey
15:59.01``Erik:)
16:01.05``Erikare you writing a drupal plugin, or are you building a community that use a drupal plugin? I think that's the big sticker :)
16:01.42elenasome task will need new plugins.
16:01.58elenalike model conversions.
16:02.12elenaother will use existing plugins, like for ratings.
16:02.39elena"you're a piece of ..." might also need some more explicit detail :)
16:02.40``Erikof course, new communicites will need new functionality.. but I'm not asking if there needs to be new software, I'm asking what the real goal is :)
16:02.44``Erikcommunities
16:03.15elenathe real goal is to get a good repository.
16:03.25elenaso we can share models.
16:03.40elenaeither good or bad. hopefully most good.
16:03.56``ErikI'm not sure I agree, I think the real goal would be to generate a community that is willing and able to share models
16:04.16``Erika brilliant repository is useless if there is no community using it
16:05.07``Erik*shrug* :) my opinion, of no importance... I'll help with the coding where I can and ask the ugly questions when I feel like being "that guy", but *shrug* I did my best to not be a mentor this year so I don't have to "judge" anyone
16:05.20``ErikI'm just asking to get braincells firing
16:05.21elenatrue. but we already have a community.
16:05.51``ErikBRL-CAD has a few disperate communities that don't seem to like the notion of unification or sharing.
16:06.28elenaexactly! and why's that?
16:07.02``Erikoh, I imagine part of that is the military nature that a significant portion of the user community (and almost all our funding) comes from
16:07.13elenadon't worry about being "that guy". "those guys" are as helpfull as the "nice guys" :)
16:07.41elena:)
16:07.47elenayou got me there.
16:08.06elenaI can't help with that and I was thinking to another answer.
16:09.19``ErikWhile the GSOC projects may benefit the secretive military retards, I tend to push my thinking more towards the open source side... I'd like to see an efficient and usable repo out in the real world that my secret squirrel buddies can use when appropriate... but that comes back to the issue, it's about the community, not the software :)
16:10.12``ErikI've seen brilliant open source software languish due to lack of interest... and I persoanlyl feel that linux is pretty shitty, but it has a solid community, so it thrives :)
16:10.50``Erikan aspect to ponder, perhaps, or just ignore *shrug*
16:12.34elenaI'll keep that in mind.
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17:33.25madantha.. the action has started already :)
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20:17.50madanthowdy jdoliner , elena :)
20:21.02elenahi.
20:25.17madantd-lo: i shall miss you :) brlcad is my new master :D
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20:31.51``ErikO.O that very may well be just a little tmi
20:33.22madant:D
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23:49.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34314 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: haven't documented the other contributors (nick and myself) yet for the new points primitive, but go ahead and document richard's implementation of the 'l' command support so that pnts can be described.
23:55.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34315 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
23:55.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: document the addition of the point cloud primitive (pnts) by nick and myself
23:55.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: even though it's still not quite ready for public use just yet given a few
23:55.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: callbacks still need to be implemented for basic use. this was added back
23:55.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: during 7.12 but not documented until now due to momentum and completeness at the
23:55.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: time.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090427

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090427

00:18.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34316 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pnts/pnts.c:
00:18.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: simplify the export calculations for the point data size: use masks so we can
00:18.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: avoid error-prone magic numbers. also remove the unnecessary void pointer
00:18.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: casting redundancy in _describe(), BU_LIST_FOR gives us the right iterator type.
00:19.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34317 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pnts/pnts.c: ws
00:25.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34318 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pnts/pnts.c: cleanup and prepare to fix ifree()
00:27.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34319 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pnts/pnts.c: print the type if we encounter something unexpected to help with debugging
01:02.53b0efjdoliner: not really sure what you mean by hybridization between B-REP and CSG; you will work on NURBS in other words?;)
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02:06.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34320 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pnts/pnts.c:
02:06.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: restore an _ifree() implementation that still 'cheats' by just leveraging the
02:06.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: fact that all of the point structure types have a bu_list element that we can
02:06.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: iterate over. we can save a little time by avoiding to dequeue the points too
02:06.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: since the list is being wiped out anyways. stub in the _print() callback
02:07.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: pretending that rt_pnts_internal is what we're going to use for the solid
02:07.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: specific structure.
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02:52.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34321 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pnts/pnts.c: one more void* elimination along with consolidating the buf size to one place.
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03:11.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34322 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pnts/pnts.c: make the point iteration consistent with the other routines -- don't use a separate head pointer. add a couple magic sanity checks too
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05:20.22starseekerhrm.
05:20.40starseekerappears to have exceeded the memory capabilities of his system
05:29.28Ralithhaiku runs nicely on my laptop :D
05:29.36starseekercool!
05:29.40RalithI should install it to disk and see if it's actually responsive from there >_>
05:29.53starseekerif it supports the laptop hardware
05:30.07Ralithhm?
05:30.12Ralithit's running pretty well right now...
05:30.20Ralithfull resolution, functional network, mouse, keyboard
05:30.22starseekerwait, are you running in virtual machine?
05:30.28Ralithnope
05:30.31starseeker!!
05:30.31Ralithbooted it from a USB stick
05:30.32starseekernice
05:30.43Ralithpretty shiny.
05:30.58Ralithkinda dissapointed that ff2 came up though
05:31.01Ralithwas hoping for a native browser
05:31.07Raliththat is, custom browser
05:31.11starseekerah
05:31.19starseekerthinks that will come after a stable release
05:31.28starseekerprobably use webkit or gecko though
05:33.20Ralithyeah, I remembered reading about some effort to transfer existing work to webkit
05:41.20Ralith300fps spinning teapot in software
05:41.21Ralithnot bad
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06:38.58mafmhi
06:44.37Ralithhi
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06:51.29elenahello
07:09.17madanthowdy mafm
07:09.43madantRalith: how's the gui planning coming up :)
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08:58.50brlcadwanders off to practice
09:01.27brlcadRalith: that's pretty cool, so next step is get a compiler installed and work on a minimum brl-cad compilation? :)
09:03.11Ralithmaybe!
09:03.18Ralithmadant: slower than I'd like
09:07.34madant:) one thing i learned last time is :D most things take longer than you anticipate :)
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10:53.20d-lonornin all!
10:58.57``Erikyargh, matey, shiver me timbers, or somethin'
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13:22.58``Erikcooks up some corned beef hash and eggs O.o
13:23.22d-loNow *THAT* sounds good... Mmmmmm
13:23.52``Erikthe gf thought I was batshit insane for buying a can of corned beef hash
13:23.54``Erikit's good shit!
13:24.03``Erikfat kid shit, but good!
13:24.52``ErikI think I'll bring eds lappie back to him tomorrow
13:25.17``Erikin th emean time, this ucw action vs function crap not acting like call/cc should is strusfrating me.
13:25.50brlcadthat's good stuff
13:26.34``Erik(it's my rdo, I think I've dropped more lines of code this morning than in the last fortnight)
13:28.43brlcadjust had a delectable plate of his own creation. yum!
13:29.02``Erikthink you guys could spare a corner with a workstation for me? I'm getting clobbered with questions left and right that burn time and even lead to philosphical debates :( that he actually stated that he was doing me a favor by not asking me a question for a WHOLE FUCKING HOUR
13:29.12``ErikI have shit to do, I need to hide to do it :(
13:30.45``Erikindianlarry takes most of it for me as he's not on a crunch for anything, but when he's not there or doesn't have the answers... *grouse*
13:31.14``ErikI might be turnin' those new suns into my chair real soon
13:31.24brlcadum, maybe don't get suckered into philosophical debates
13:32.04``Erikhehehe, it's hard, he has ideas that he needs to be heared, and when ya disagree, it must be because you didn't understnad  him
13:32.05``Erik:/
13:32.14d-lolol
13:32.16brlcadi'm sure that's not all the questions, but that one you can certainly do something about
13:32.16d-lolock the door
13:32.30``Erikuhhh, he has a key? :D
13:33.02``Erikwaterfall/perfection vs agile/chaotic
13:33.05``Erik*sigh* :D
13:33.09d-looh, THAT one.  I thought you were talking about the previous owner of cliffs seat.
13:33.23``Erikno, he's totally controllable, not an issue at all
13:34.50``Eriklast friday, I said "ok, if you think that's how it should be, go do it. If it works, people will follow" way too many times
13:35.29``Erik<-- was seriously close to flipping out, wasn't planning on going to lunch, but HAD to get out of that environment O.o
13:35.44``Erikgave me a damn headache :D
13:35.48``Erikaaaanyways
13:36.31``ErikI think I might have to look for a place to squat in to crank some productivity, dark and music... O.o
13:36.50d-loYou like headphones?
13:39.50``ErikI can't use headphones for very long, they tend to push on my jaw just below my ears and give me a headache
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13:44.02starseekertries to gear up argouml and discovers that a major python version update on gentoo == pain
13:46.20``Erikd-lo, do you tubesperms do mess duty, or do ya'll get a specialist?
13:46.42``Eriks/allothta/pasttesnse()/
13:48.13d-loMess duty only when you are new to the boat and can't stand any Watchstation.
13:48.20d-loNUB = Non Useful Body
13:48.26``Erik:D
13:48.31d-loNUB = Mess duty.
13:48.45``Erikthis somehow reminds me of navy mess... *cookcoookcook*
13:49.19d-loIf you aren't pulling out 15 day old leftovers, you aren't doing it right imho. =D
13:49.39``Erikhehehe
13:51.49``Eriknoms his brunch
13:54.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34323 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bn.h: stub the notion of a point
13:58.56brlcadenum ftw
14:00.22``Erikpublic thinking *shrug* when I get around to the actual draw routines, mebbe I'll consider applying it
14:01.01``Erikmmm salty, but good, I should buy corned beef hash more often :D
14:03.29``Erikheads out to check up on his car, renew his rental contract and stop by the grocery store O.o
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14:07.55d-lo...just don't go out for pizza!  *ducks*
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15:01.22mafmhi
15:15.23brlcadhowdy mafm
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15:31.07madanthi mafm
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15:59.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34324 10/brlcad/trunk/include/nmg.h: alignment cleanup while looking where data could be attached
15:59.14brlcadhippieindamakin8: hola!  any progress on that nmg routine?
15:59.31hippieindamakin8brlcad, hey
15:59.50hippieindamakin8not yet. just back from 7 hrs of continous examinations.
16:00.27hippieindamakin8i ll do that on 30th as soon as i am done with the endsems . got 2 more on wednesday and i ll be done.
16:02.52hippieindamakin8brlcad, i ll look through the nmg_junk and the other conversions to nmg and rewrite it then
16:12.26brlcadhippieindamakin8: oh yeah, how'd those go?
16:12.31brlcadyour exams that is
16:12.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34325 10/brlcad/trunk/include/nmg.h: more ws and comment cleanup
16:13.30brlcadhippieindamakin8: when you do look, keep in mind that nmg_junk alludes to the notion that the way it does it for polys from file isn't necessarily the 'right' way
16:13.56brlcaddidn't investigate exactly what was meant by that comment but I think it has to do with the fact that the nmg is manually constructed instead of using functions
16:24.33``Erikno no, I seem to get accosted by curbs when I go out for pizza
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17:38.54``Erikgrooves to regina spektor
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17:58.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34326 10/brlcad/trunk/include/nmg.h: looks like indent is messing with some of the defines, reindent. also a few other minor tweaks for consistency and null out the NMG_FREESTRUCT pointer after it's free for sanity too.
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18:27.52dreeveswaives at brlcad and starseeker
18:29.14dreeves~logs
18:29.15ibotAll conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged.
18:54.34brlcadhowdy dreeves
18:58.16dreevesI have been very preoccupied with a project but should be freeing up in the next day or two then maybe we can make some more progress I see you all have added some more test data thanks!!
18:58.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34327 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: align the closing scope with the define macro
19:19.45starseekerhey dreeves
19:33.11starseekerbrlcad: Are there any worthwhile open source SIMD abstraction libraries out there?
19:49.49*** join/#brlcad elena (n=ebautu@89.136.118.141)
19:50.21elenahi.
19:50.57starseekerhowdy
19:51.04elenahow are you?
19:51.12starseekerwell.  yourself?
19:51.18elenafine.
19:51.59elenado you have some spare time now?
19:52.04starseekersure
19:52.42elenacan we talk about the project plan?
19:53.12starseekeryep.
19:53.18elenagreat!
19:53.39elenawhere do we start?
19:54.02starseekerdo you have a wiki page with your proposal?
19:54.07elenayes.
19:54.09elena1 sec.
19:55.04elenahttp://brlcad.org/wiki/User:EBautu
19:57.49starseekerI guess the main question at the moment is what features are needed/desired?
19:59.36elena``Erik mentioned a rating system.
19:59.46``Erikwakes up
20:01.09``Erikoh, yeah, I figure the point is a community, there'll be both spammers as well as well meaning folk who simply produce crap...
20:01.21elenabasiclly, browse for models, search, and upload models.
20:02.38starseekerright - there are some fairly obvious core capabilities without which there is no site.  The most important is the model -> web-ready information capabilities
20:03.37starseekerI would say that the user interaction modes are orthogonal to the "handle CAD models" core functionality
20:04.00brlcadpersonally (and open to debate) I'd like the site to effectively counter abuse in a manner similar to most wikis
20:04.04brlcadthat is .. make it easier to remove the content than it is to add it, use recaptcha for anonymous submissions, and provide a strong feedback loop (like cia and/or e-mail notifications on changes)
20:04.19starseekeragrees
20:04.28starseekerrecaptcha is a must
20:04.47``Erikno, recaptcha is NOT a must
20:04.55``Erika strong community is a must
20:05.17elenai think we should not allow anonymous submissions.
20:05.30starseeker``Erik:  I would contend that a strong basis of good quality models will attract a community
20:05.45elenathe least you can do is create an account if you want to submit something.
20:06.02starseekermy concern with anonymous submissions is being sure that they aren't (say) something from a company's commercial files
20:06.17brlcadelena: put a lot of thought into that particular topic -- there's a reason to allow it
20:06.17``Erikhackernews (http://news.ycombinator.com) has an aggressive moderation community, reddit.com does not... slashdot uses a designated coop
20:06.40brlcadthat's not to say unchecked submissions -- but to allow them with extra effort
20:06.41``Erikthis is a topic that has a lot of random experimentation and little proof
20:08.03brlcadspecifically with regards to starseeker's point, *any* submission should have a cited source and the submission process allowing that source to be specified
20:08.54starseekerI would suggest solving the technical problems of CAD model ->  web page is the first order of business - how those tools are used is (obviously) more complicated from a social standpoint
20:09.29``Erikargues that there is no technical solution to a social issue
20:09.48brlcadif the claim is "I made this", then anonymous wouldn't be allowed -- but if some random user found the openmoko model and wanted to add it to the db, nothing should prevent that contribution presuming it's properly cited (and probably manually reviewed)
20:09.58starseekerok - but we're doing a gsoc project here, so shouldn't the focus be on concrete functionality?
20:10.18starseekerbrlcad: ok, that makes sense
20:10.54``Erikbut is the essense o fthe project to create a pile of code? or is it ot begin developing a community?
20:11.07starseekerI would say it's the former
20:11.43starseekerwithout the former, the latter isn't practical
20:11.49brlcadI'd rather the system be set up as open as possible, and just make it easy to correct and respond to bad use (think wikipedia not journal submission)
20:11.56``Erik*shrug* I personally believe it's a critical discriminating point
20:12.14brlcad``Erik: developing the community is our job :)
20:12.39``ErikI kinda think the point of any software is to support a community, to develope a piece of software with no appreciation of a community is ... pointless
20:12.43brlcadthe project is about writing code and becoming a contributor
20:13.05brlcadthose aren't orthogonal goals
20:13.09``Erikand now; I walk like an egyption. *dance*
20:13.23starseekerblinks
20:13.48brlcadelena: so I mentioned this earlier when you weren't around but just in case...
20:13.54brlcadplease do keep in mind a few things: 1) conversations should be public, 2) mentoring should similarly be public especially technical discussions, and 3) your listed mentor is predominantly for logistically tracking your progress -- i.e., they're not your "go-to" person for technical discussions -- those really should be open forums (here and/or irc) where any/other devs can at least listen in
20:13.54``Erikwhoa ohh whoahh ohh woohhha ohh wohhh ohh whoaahhhh
20:14.29brlcadmm, and that should have read (here and/or mailing list) ;)
20:14.31elenaok. I know that.
20:14.37brlcadelena: okay, just making sure :)
20:14.50brlcadsometimes a critical piece of information slips through.. makes all the difference
20:14.51elenathank you.
20:15.02brlcadtrying to make sure everyone gets the same information this year :)
20:15.17brlcadthe channel /topic is useful too ;)
20:15.56starseekerhas a question - is the intent to recognize the file format being provided, or to rely on the user to identify the format?
20:16.41elenaI didn't do it before, but we could try to recognize the file format.
20:16.49elenausing some magic bytes maybe?
20:17.32elenaor simpler, it's file extension (not sure how general is that)...
20:17.36brlcadto me, the heart of that project from a task perspective is the ability to upload a .g file (for starters) with annotated metadata, and then visualize that model categorized through the website (raytrace renderings along with more fundamental information like file types, object counts, sizes, dates, license, etc)
20:18.37brlcadit doesn't need to recognize -- there's only a limited set of types
20:18.52brlcadhave a selector on upload that specifies the type, then it can be named anything
20:19.11elenaok. that's even simpler :)
20:19.14brlcadcould still have the uploader require a consistent naming convention too
20:20.45brlcadelena: what would your preference be in terms of scope -- more focus on conversion capability or more focus on the site index itself?
20:21.25elenawhat do you mean by "site index"?
20:23.03brlcadthe site browsability, the web interface itself
20:23.26elenaaaha.
20:23.40brlcadas much as there are lots of potential ideas where this can/will go, there's simply not enough time, so narrowing that scope would be good
20:24.08elenausability  is importanta, but i'd like to focus on conversion, too.
20:24.34elenaconversion will require me to learn more about brlcad.
20:24.40elenanot you, the software :D
20:24.40brlcade.g. making the front-end framework really easy to use and well organized vs having support for tracking versions of files vs having support for importing/exporting various formats cleanly vs rendering views vs rating/karma system vs robust metadata support, etc
20:24.53brlcadthe dash makes all the difference ;)
20:24.56brlcadbrlcad vs brl-cad ;)
20:26.33elenai'd go with support import/export, then rating, then rendering, then easy to use, metadata, etc.
20:26.59brlcadnow the all-important question -- why? :)
20:26.59elenanot sure about the last one. it might be higher weighted.
20:27.36elenaimport/export is important. without it we have no content.
20:27.39brlcadI can say that clear licensing is a top-priority regardless and that has a little bit to do with metadata
20:28.08brlcadwithout the licensing sorted out, most of the other features are moot
20:28.21brlcadnot complicated, but critical
20:28.22elenarating is important (Erik is right that people may upload bad stuff, by mistake or willingly).
20:28.44starseekerbarring a flood of content site admins can address that manually
20:29.20starseekerfree CAD models are currently fairly rare
20:29.25brlcada review queue solves that, similar to drupals comment moderation system
20:29.29elenathen I'd say that licensing implies registred users for submissions.
20:29.40elenanot necesary to say I made this.
20:29.48elenabut to say I put this here.
20:30.21brlcaddepends entirely on the source and the license
20:30.25elenait's not necesary for flood.
20:30.40elenabut let's say I find 10 models of a cup.
20:30.58brlcadokay
20:31.14elenaI'd like to get an idea of other though about them before I start downloading them.
20:31.47brlcadno comprendo
20:31.49elenai, myself, I'd always start with the highest rated ones.
20:32.15starseekeroh, you're talking about a user sorting site content
20:32.32elenayes. sorry, was related to rating and flooding.
20:33.33brlcadrating is simply a means to filter/sort site content -- with the right browsing and searching mechanisms, those aren't necessarily that important; moreover using filtering/searching on top of bad browsing is still usually a horrible user experience
20:34.07brlcadthe unfiltered browsing needs to be well organized by itself regardless of searching/filtering aids
20:34.31brlcada really good example site related to this is freshmeat.net
20:34.42starseekersourceforge's system of filters might also be worth mentioning here - you can (for example) filter out all search results that don't match a particular license
20:35.10elenaI was thinking more of http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/
20:35.28brlcadfreshmeat has evolved into a rather feature-filled system, but it's core browsability remains efficient even with tens of thousands of projects
20:36.18starseekerelena: the trick with rating systems like that is they tend to highlight the "coolest" items
20:36.23brlcadyeah, that's not bad -- pretty similar
20:36.50starseekerfor technical searching, my first order of business is to limit the search space to the "must haves" - license being the obvious one
20:36.53elenayes. coolest is not always the best.
20:37.19brlcadmy point earlier was scope though -- there's not nearly enough time to "support import/export, then rating, then rendering, then easy to use, metadata, etc" .. the point is (at least for this summer), what to leave out
20:37.34elenabtw, what drupal version is on brl-cad.org?
20:37.56brlcadI'd say rating/sorting is one to leave out .. searching and basic browsing would come first
20:38.06brlcadelena: a version that needs to be upgraded :)
20:38.06starseekerbrlcad: yeah
20:38.25starseekeragreed - that's why I figured code dealing directly with the cad files was first up
20:38.51starseekerwhich I guess is import/export and metadata
20:38.53elenaagree.
20:39.28brlcadimport/export for any geometry type or just .g files (for now)?
20:39.39starseekerwould say .g files...
20:40.09elenahow about import for g, export multiple types?
20:40.24elenai played just a little with the conversion tools.
20:40.48elenait looked to me that I could used them to convert one to another.
20:40.50starseekerprobably want to go the other way, actually - ending up with the .g file, at least BRL-CAD can read it :-)
20:40.56elenabut you know better.
20:41.33starseekerthe conversion tools can do a lot, but they have their limitations
20:41.45elenayeah. it make more sense that way :)
20:41.51brlcadelena: the issue is that almost every time you convert geometry from format A to format B, it's a lossy conversion  (nearly universal to the point of being universal to the CAD industry)
20:42.19brlcadour importers often preserve everything or nearly everything, but our exporters most certainly do not for many formats
20:42.34elenayes. I know. but how lossy is it?
20:42.35brlcadand many formats simply cannot represent various forms of geometry
20:42.40brlcadnight and day
20:42.51brlcadfundamentally different representation schemes
20:42.58brlcadnot like jpg vs png
20:43.20starseekerelena: sometimes very lossy.  that's why you want to always preserve the original submitted format
20:43.39elenagot it.
20:43.45brlcaddifference is more like text file vs screenshot of text file
20:44.02starseekereven something like Pro-E -> IGES is likely to lose information - Pro-E -> dxf is guaranteed to since dxf can't hold a lot of what Pro-E uses
20:46.09elenathen, it's export/import .g or export .g/import many+keep original?
20:46.23elenawhat's your oppinion?
20:46.23brlcadconsider a simple sphere -- we could represent that same sphere in at least five different ways: 1) as a point+radius, 2) as a 2D outline of a circle that is rotated about an axis, 3) as a collection of polygons approximating the surface, 4) as one or more spline surfaces, 5) as a volumetric data set, ...
20:46.59elenayes. you're right.
20:47.14brlcadand brl-cad actually supports all five of those particular representations... :)
20:47.23elenaand I've seen this when created an .g object database and exported to triangles.
20:47.39brlcadyet a given export format usually does not -- many export formats only support polygons or triangles for example
20:47.42brlcadexactly
20:47.53starseekerstart with export/import .g, imho.  Once that's working, more formats can be added
20:49.03starseekerthe original format of the model is an important fact to preserve in the metadata (probably the second most important after license)
20:49.16elenaok.
20:49.35starseekerbut you should preserve that information for .g files too ;-)
20:49.41starseekerso no harm starting there
20:50.31brlcadand the users can always install our tools and convert to .g if they really want to :)
20:50.44brlcadbut that does bring up another point about the site interface
20:51.06brlcadI'd really like it to talk about what format the geometry is or at least what types of geometry are contained
20:51.18brlcadso that if it's 100% triangles, the site will say so
20:51.21elena"users can always install our tools and convert to .g if they really want to" correct!
20:51.51brlcadlikewise, a special flag to note whether it's a solid model or not
20:52.27``Erikconvert from, rather?
20:52.42brlcadfor .g, the answers to that metadata is pretty simple (there's only 3 primitive types we support that aren't solid)
20:54.56elenais there a tools that gives this information? I don't recall one.
20:55.09elenalike some kind on statistics.
20:55.16brlcadmged can
20:57.55brlcadanother thing I think will be critical is queueing -- uploaded geometry gets queued for addition, views are queued for rendering, conversions are queued, etc
20:58.31brlcadso that the system can be taken down or manually prodded without interrupting jobs or without locking up resources
20:59.01elenaI think so, too.
20:59.30``Erikif a tool does not exist, it will shortly after notification that it should :)
20:59.37brlcadgeometry uploads are going to be generally be very big (possibly hundreds of megs), renderings and conversions are going to take potentially minutes or hours
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21:00.05brlcadyeah, we can make tools as needed to in order to facilitate the site
21:00.32elenareally?! I didn't expect geometry files that big. :(
21:00.55brlcadthey can be anywhere from a few bytes to a GB or more, depending on the model
21:01.03brlcadwe'll just have to manually limit the sizes
21:01.05elenaprobably that says a lot of my experience :)
21:01.12``Erikwe deal with files that gobble mulpiple gigs on drive :(
21:02.03brlcadnot that any of *those* would ever be uploaded, but it's not inconceivable that the system will grow to support large models (they are often the most interesting after all)
21:02.15elenauploading those might be a problem.
21:02.20elenafor the user.
21:02.32elenaaha.
21:02.34brlcadhence the need for a queue and (ideally), multiple upload methods
21:02.41``Erikgotta think towards future-rpoofing, though
21:02.47starseekernods
21:03.44brlcade.g., could easily support anonymous ftp uploads ala sf.net's former file release system
21:04.16brlcadyou upload your model via anon ftp, then select your file from a list
21:04.35brlcadcould do similar things with sftp/scp
21:04.42``ErikI mean, starseeker is making tires that cork hard drives, yet he still can't get my tread right :D
21:04.44starseekerhave to be careful about restricting that so it isn't abused, but yes that could work
21:05.03starseeker``Erik: whatda mean? my tires are tiiiiny
21:05.12starseeker27k for the default with tread, iirc
21:05.18``Erikwhere's my effin' tread?
21:05.24brlcad"sphflake -d8" is enough to make a model that will fill most hard drives :)
21:05.47brlcadtread's off by default
21:05.51``Erikmuch less brlcad's!
21:06.01starseekerwaiting on a fix for the major/minor axis assumptions in that weird dimensional case, iirc
21:06.29starseekeryeah - I regard tire -p 1 as the "default" treaded example
21:06.32``ErikI'm still not sure if my fronts are being replaced by all seasons or not
21:07.00starseekerelena: anyway - is this helpful in narrowing your focus?
21:07.16elenayes. very.
21:07.30``Erikwell, damn, I'm doing my best to UNnarrow here :D
21:07.38elenahowever, I'll copy it and read it again tomorow to filter it out.
21:07.50elena:)
21:07.54starseekerheh
21:08.15elenais this chat logged?
21:08.16``Erikmannies does soem good lasagna
21:08.20``Erikyeah, uh
21:08.23starseeker~log
21:08.23ibotmethinks log is as piece of wood, or a record, or the opposite of exponentiation, or http://ibot.rikers.org/%23uphpu/
21:08.53brlcad~logs
21:08.53ibotAll conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged.
21:08.58starseekershowoff
21:10.08starseekerRalith: heh - speaking of native Haiku web browsing - looks like a gsoc project will integrate webkit into the native Haiku browser.  You might get your updated browsing experience fairly soon :-)
21:10.47brlcadBeOS's old web browser was pretty hilarious -- which is where 'Haiku' got its name
21:11.20starseekerWhat was that called.  Netcrawler or something?
21:11.39brlcadif a page wasn't there, it would give you a haiku
21:11.41brlcadnetpositive
21:11.46starseekerah :-)
21:11.50starseekeroh yeah, I remember that
21:12.07``Erikthere is no page here
21:12.07``ErikI tried real hard to find one
21:12.07``Erikbut there was none here
21:12.07starseekergot a lot of those things - getting browsing up for a virtual machine is still a trick for me
21:12.08brlcadhttp://8325.org/haiku/
21:13.11starseekerwishes in some ways that Microsoft had bought BeOS after Apple dropped it and turned it into the next version of Windows
21:13.23brlcad<PROTECTED>
21:13.26starseekerwould have been a way to get a nice Windows
21:13.33``Eriksome of thos eare brilliant
21:13.54brlcadrewrote low-level threading support so that it would cleanly support 10,000 threads multiplex seamlessly
21:14.00starseekerjeez
21:14.19starseekerdoes Haiku manage any of that yet?
21:14.20brlcadhilarious dev articles
21:14.32brlcada few things, but not much yet
21:14.43brlcadthey've had a mountain to climb just to reproduce the old api
21:14.52brlcads/reproduce/reimplement/
21:14.56starseekernods
21:14.59brlcadwithout optimizations
21:15.09starseekerwho bought the old BeOS code?
21:15.13starseekerPalm was it?
21:15.22brlcadbasically
21:15.32starseekerdoesn't understand why they're still sitting on it
21:15.33brlcadthere were some proprietary licensed portions too
21:15.37starseekerah
21:16.40brlcadeven if they could give away some of the code, they'd be suceptible to shareholder lawsuit
21:16.52starseekermmm
21:16.54starseekerthat sucks
21:17.03brlcadlong threads about the be code
21:17.12brlcadlots of folks wanted it
21:17.24starseekerremembers a few abortive attemps to buy it ala blender style, but those never went anywhere either
21:17.29brlcadone even tried (illegally apparently), which is where Zeta OS came from
21:18.35starseekeroh, yeah. I had forgotten them
21:19.02starseekernever made any sense to me - it was clear if the OS was going to have any chance at gaining mind share it would have to be as open source
21:20.22starseekerbrlcad: oh, bty - know of any  portable open source SIMD abstraction layers?
21:22.09brlcadthere are a few projects related to abstraction, but it's pretty low level effort
21:22.43starseekerah.  So, not likely to be terribly useful?
21:22.51brlcadmore work designing the algorithms themselves and they're very closely tuned to cache sizes, the algorithm at hand, and the capabilities of the unit
21:29.29brlcadthere's projects like gcc's automatic vectorization and other more spansive projects like OpenGL
21:29.36brlcador the variety of GPGPU libraries
21:30.28brlcadcuda, libsh, brookgpu
21:30.32starseekerwas just asking because these raytracing guys seem to like SIMD if they want decent performance on anything...
21:31.33brlcadguys?
21:31.41brlcadcontext?
21:31.53starseekerthe Direct raytracing of NURBS paper
21:31.59brlcadah, right
21:32.08brlcadvery much required to get the performance they were getting
21:32.25brlcadsome of that was stubbed in for sse2
21:32.53brlcadinclude/vector*.h
21:33.24starseekerOK, so we will need to do it ourselves then
21:34.31brlcadpretty much
21:34.38starseekerneeds to dig into this "create a tree of bounding boxes" step
21:34.53starseekernot clear why the performance was so bad on the openbook model
21:34.56brlcadthe closest you could probably get as a general system would be something like opencl, but it's not clear what that would imply dependencywise
21:35.23brlcadwould think you'd need to understand that before making a decision on how to improve it ;)
21:35.34starseekerexactly
21:36.02starseekeryou're referring to Khronos Group's OpenCL?
21:36.42brlcadyes
21:36.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34328 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: more consistency cleanup
21:37.04``Erikhronos is still around?
21:37.35brlcadvery much so
21:37.37starseekerwell, at least the license looks reasonable
21:38.00brlcadhave a pretty big presense at siggraph each year
21:38.15``Erikwow, I thought they'd died off in the late 90's
21:38.56brlcadopencl is also slated to be included in Mac OS X 10.6 so there are expectations that library may take off in a big way
21:40.02brlcadstarseeker: dependencywise, I meant more what they take to be managed as a dependency, like build issues, how well it actually works, whether it's a special compilation pass or simply a library link, it's longevity and portability, etc
21:40.14brlcadit'd certainly require algorithm/code rewrites regardless
21:40.16starseekerah
21:51.29elenai'll go now. thank you all for your help. bye.
21:51.48*** part/#brlcad elena (n=ebautu@89.136.118.141)
21:55.03*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-67.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
22:29.53brlcadwas just the victim of a hit n' run
22:30.21madantbrlcad: seriously ?
22:30.27brlcaddammit, really need to have video cameras installed
22:30.29brlcadmadant: yeah
22:30.47madantdamn
22:30.59brlcadminor damage, but seriously infuriating
22:31.05brlcadas I think it was intentional
22:31.15madantyou are ok right ?
22:31.28brlcadyeah, it's to the car, not me
22:31.41madantaah. ok..
22:32.21madantno way to find out what happened or who did it ?
22:32.24brlcadI heard a large truck backing up (the sort that beeps) and then take off fast, which made me look out the window .. and I saw the damage
22:33.25madanthmm. that sucks .. insurance would cover the repairs etc. right ?
22:33.31brlcadyeah
22:33.56madantsome people are just evil :D
22:34.25madantjust woke up all of a sudden at 4 am
22:38.30madantwould the police be able to track them ? you are filing a complaint right ? i have no idea how the system works in US .
22:42.43Ralithstarseeker: that must have been what I read to lodge the idea in the first place
22:43.19Ralithbrlcad: I'm kind of sad that that sort of error's mostly absent in the modern world of software
22:43.44Ralithyeah, it's only really practical when the user understands and can intuit what's wrong anyway, but it just sounds fun.
22:44.44brlcadmadant: already filed and have the report, but nothing they can really do about it given no eye witness
22:45.24Ralithbrlcad: oh damn :/
22:45.29Ralithglad the damage is minor.
22:45.34Ralithand insured.
22:53.33madanthmm. yeah you should implement the camera idea..
23:00.21brlcadRalith: what sort of error?
23:00.43brlcada little out of context and not thinking clearly at the moment to follow that response
23:01.31Ralithhaiku 404s
23:01.36Ralither, DNS failures
23:01.39Ralithor whatever that error was.
23:01.52Ralithnetpositive's
23:02.21brlcadahh
23:02.28brlcadokay, yeah, that makes more sense now :)
23:03.13brlcadit was generally an alternative (or in addition) to returning "Error: 404 Page not found" .. which is arguably just as cryptic :)
23:06.51Ralithyeah, but familiar, and standard.
23:07.00Ralithin addition would be cool.
23:07.16Ralithis of the opinion that the software world would be a nicer place if humor abounded more freely in released products
23:41.10starseekerRalith: you mean Windows isn't a joke?
23:41.26Ralith:P
23:41.43Ralithit is, but sarcasm so extreme that it fools most of the world isn't my kind of humor.
23:41.51starseekerbrlcad: crap - sorry to hear about the car :-(
23:41.58starseekerRalith: ah
23:42.17Ralith"Oh yeah, *this* is a real OS! It's *exactly* what you need!"
23:44.44brlcadeep, /tmp: out of inodes
23:44.55Raliththat sounds bad
23:48.19brlcadyeah.. especially since I don't think it's 'actually' out of inodes
23:48.42Ralith:|
23:48.45Raliththat sounds *really* bad then
23:49.47brlcadhmm.. that's not a root filesystem though.. might be able to fix that one
23:50.51Ralithwell, it is /tmp; couldn't you just boot a livecd and nuke it?
23:51.56brlcadeh, this is a dedicated server sitting down in florida
23:52.01brlcadmaybe after a 20 hour drive :)
23:52.13madantheh :P
23:55.19Raliththat does indeed make things harder.
23:55.38Ralithperhaps some cleverness with a temporary symlink to a dir on the root fs while you unmount and nuke it?
23:56.21RalithI can imagine lots of things going wrong in the instant between deletion and symlink creation, though
23:56.33Raliththen again, they're probably going wrong anyway if the FS is borked.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090428

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090428

00:12.03Ralithbrlcad: uh, might this be the brlcad.org server? 'cuz I can't load it
00:12.04Ralithpings, though.
00:32.48*** join/#brlcad brlcad (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:36.13brlcadfsck in progress, connectivity intermittent (and it required a reboot)
00:37.11RalithO.o
00:39.58brlcadthat unmount of /tmp was very bad :)
00:40.19pacman87so that's where my screen went...
00:40.42brlcadyeah, all services seized up .. not just the screen sessions
00:41.41brlcadwhich is really odd -- the mount point itself would have remained and fallen back to the root fs
00:42.44*** join/#brlcad pacman87_ (n=pacman87@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:43.29pacman87although i still haven't found a way to send pgup/pgdn
00:52.46madantis doing an fsck on his system too
00:53.03madantis doing fsck on his system too
01:00.50Ralithpacman87: did you try my suggestion a while back?
01:01.38*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@bz.bzflag.bz)
01:01.49pooliobrlcad: server all fixed? :P
01:01.55pacman87about pgup/pgdn?
01:05.37Ralithyes
01:07.05pacman87i think i did, but i don't remember which suggestion was yours
01:07.49Ralithhad to do with some config file
01:08.40pacman87xmodmap?
01:09.18Ralithdon't think so
01:09.21Ralithsomething in /etc
01:09.29pacman87inputrc?
01:09.32Ralithyeah
01:10.10pacman87yeah, but i think i got the commands wrong
01:10.19RalithI suggested doing "\e[whateverforkeyyouhave": "\e[whateverforpageuporpagedown"
01:10.28pacman87since i successfully remapped F6 to print "F6"
01:11.08pacman87i don't think that's the right syntax, but i'll try it
01:11.22Ralithwell modify as appropriate
01:11.40Ralithbut you said "\e[whateverforF6": "F6" worked
01:11.46pacman87yes
01:11.46Ralithso I think this might, too
01:11.54Ralith'cuz I'm pretty sure those are just POSIX escape sequences
01:12.06pacman87tries
01:12.30hippieindamakin8brlcad, u dod mention that there are better ways than those in nmg_junk
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01:29.03pacman87_so that kind of worked, but not in irssi
01:36.54brlcadpoolio: yeah, it required a reboot to fix an fs issue
01:38.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34329 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bn.h: ws consistency cleanup and column alignment
01:42.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34330 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/prep.c: add semicolons so it indents properly
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01:47.13starseekerthat was weird
01:49.11Ralithpacman87: you could script irssi.
01:49.29Ralithin fact, I bet it might not be hard to just bind different keys to the scrolling function
01:49.32Ralitheven if you have to hack the code
01:58.19brlcadstarseeker: there was a reboot to fix a critical fs error on /tmp
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02:13.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34331 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: fix a macro typo/bug where spaces were injected. move rt_sketch_ifree down with the other ifree bastages.
02:29.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34332 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/proe-g.c: go through rt_get_functab_by_label() instead of calling rt_comb_ifree() directly. abstracts the call and eliminates need for header decl.
02:40.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34333 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/primitives/table.c): possibly don't need a public declaration of rt_comb_ifree(). still need a decl for a table entry.
02:46.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34334 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/asc/asc2g.c: don't call the ifree() functions directly. use the functab interface so we don't need to export the symbols.
02:47.24starseekerbrlcad: ah :-)
02:47.31starseekeryeah, that'll do it
03:18.59PrezKennedyIIhey brlcad, if you need a nice sophisticated camera security system... FGS can do that for you ;)
03:21.10RalithFGS?
03:27.35PrezKennedyIIits where i work
03:28.57PrezKennedyIIhttp://facchinaglobal.com/ - the website doesnt do us justice :)
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09:01.46piksihm, is the 7.14.6 available somewhere?
09:02.47brlcadall public releases are available on sourceforge, http://sf.net/projects/brlcad
09:03.02brlcadwe don't make binary releases for every version, though
09:03.11brlcadso you might have to compile, or use a previous binary release
09:03.45brlcadall releases are available in our subversion revision source control repository
09:06.06piksiah, i was browsing the wrong view..
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09:58.18piksihmm, a lot of errors during configure about various makefiles ignoring the --datarootdir option
10:07.45``Erik*readreadread* sucks about the car, dude :( /tmp out of inodes? huh, .... all the more reason to migrate? :)
10:08.18``Erikthere're a couple whines about datarootdir being ignored that we just take... um, like brlman is the one I usually notice being naughty
10:08.40``Erikif you don't do anything weird, it won't hurt anything :)
10:10.06``Erik2 reboots? O.O at least we're still in 4 9's actual turf *sigh*
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10:46.34d-lo.who
10:46.44d-lomernin all!
10:56.06``Erikheh, ".who" even? :D
11:04.12``Erikhttp://crit.brlcad.org:9090/dinreedit pheer.
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11:31.10brlcad``Erik: just one
11:31.36brlcadoh right, the admin rebooted then couldn't bring it back up and rebooted again immediately
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11:32.55``Erikc'mon, dude, I have the base system on the new machine all good,
11:33.25``ErikI'll make the dns stuff work... we gotta migrate
11:57.06brlcadknows, /me knows
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14:30.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34335 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch.c: ifree() is supposed to have a second argument for a struct resource pointer
14:32.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34336 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/extrude/extrude.c: another ifree missing its resource pointer and here we actually need it. call rt_sketch_ifree through the functab instead of directly so it's not an exposed public function.
14:35.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34337 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/dsp/dsp.c: dsp needs the second struct resource pointer too and hide rt_binunif_ifree() by calling through the functab.
14:38.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34338 10/brlcad/trunk/src/external/Unigraphics/ug-g.c: hide rt_sketch_ifree(), call it via the functab.
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14:46.41piksidoes brl use qt or gtk or plain x in linux? i should file a bug report for it not respecting the wm dpi :-/ the menu fonts are humongous
14:58.15starseekerpiksi: tcl/tk
14:58.41piksiok thanks
14:59.01starseekerit might be that the new ttk widgets do better about that - not sure
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15:05.57brlcadthat's intentional, so it'd be a feature request at best
15:06.52brlcadthe guy that works on the gui doesn't see small fonts very well, so he defaulted them big
15:14.17piksiah
15:14.29piksiok so, a feature request for adjusting font size then ? ;-)
15:22.23brlcadsure
15:22.44brlcadarcher (mged's eventual replacement) has more sane font sizes
15:23.04brlcadplus for now, you can override and set your own font sizes for mged too
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15:23.44piksithat's nice, because imho almost any program should respect gui dpi + font size settings of the wm
15:25.02brlcadit arguably does in the sense that it's "large" with respect to that default wm font size
15:25.10brlcadi.e., it's relative
15:25.42brlcadand I completely understand, just pretty minor on the priority scale :)
15:25.53piksi:-)
15:26.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34339 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (22 files in 21 dirs): a veritable buffet of ifree() changes to make sure the primitives have the right signature (with a resource pointer) and that calls are all made through the functab.
15:27.00brlcadespecially given you can change it, can make it pink wingdings if you like
15:38.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34340 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (11 files in 11 dirs): more struct resource parameters missing, should be all of them now
15:40.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34341 10/brlcad/trunk/src/external/Unigraphics/ug-g.c: no longer using rt_sketch_ifree directly so remove decl
15:41.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34342 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/BrlcadCore.def: should no longer need to export the ifree functions, they're not supposed to be exposed
15:42.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r34343 10/rt^3/trunk/src/superceded_GS/: Removed src/superceded_GS/. Old, outdated code.
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15:57.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r34344 10/rt^3/trunk/ (36 files in 9 dirs): Refactored src/GemeotryEngine -> src/GE and include/GeometryEngine -> include/GE
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16:05.13CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34345 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (6 files in 4 dirs): last last round of ifree updates, make sure everyone passes the second argument.
16:06.05CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34346 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (12 files): hide rt_comb_ifree() too even if it is a bit special. go through the functab like everyone else.
16:25.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34347 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: should no longer need to export rt_comb_ifree, rt_dsp_ifree, rt_ebm_ifree, rt_vol_ifree, and rt_sketch_ifree as everyone should now be going through the functab
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16:26.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34348 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/ (7 files in 7 dirs): no longer need to declare _RT_DECL_IFREE as there should be no public ifree funcs that need to be exported.
16:28.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r34349 10/rt^3/trunk/ (91 files in 14 dirs): Refactored src/GeometryService -> src/GS and include/GeometryService -> include/GS
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16:32.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34350 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/hf/hf.c: big cleanup after #if havoc. now better.
16:39.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34351 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged_private.h: USE_RT_COMB_IFREE is no longer used/needed
16:42.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r34352 10/rt^3/trunk/ (31 files in 7 dirs): Moved io/ into GE/io/
17:19.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r34353 10/rt^3/trunk/ (18 files in 17 dirs): Moved all src/lib* dirs into GE with the exception of libNetwork.
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17:50.43d-lobrlcad:  What was the discussion about the src/GUI directories.  Did we come to a consensus on how the Thin Client / GUI was going to be organized?
18:06.30brlcadthe main consensus was that GUI didn't make sense
18:07.40d-loso it was a terminolgy issue then.  *couldn't remember*
18:07.40brlcadmy take on it is to call that directory what it's eventually going to be called, but it's not a pressing need wrt naming conventions exactly what it's named
18:07.50brlcadmore important that the scope be defined for that directory
18:07.58brlcadthere was a couple suggestions
18:08.27brlcadone was either to just have applications be at the same level as the GS/GE, so src/whatever for the client
18:09.06brlcadalternative being to have an 'apps' dir, e.g. src/apps but then it's a bit incongruent with the apps that will be in other dirs
18:09.35brlcadmy suggestion towards the name-it-what-it's-going-to-be was src/BRL-CAD or src/brlcad
18:09.58brlcadsince that particular "app" is going to be 'the app' on top of all other apps
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18:10.50brlcadand will be the one that is installed as the double-clickable "one thing" that starts the system up (from the users' standpoint)
18:14.15d-lohrm, so src/brlcad eh?
18:14.26d-losure, why not. :)
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18:19.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r34354 10/rt^3/trunk/ (34 files in 8 dirs): Moved src/exception -> src/GE/exception and include/exception/ -> include/GE/exception
18:43.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34355 10/brlcad/trunk/ (17 files in 6 dirs): Added better support for editing arbs in Archer.
19:48.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34356 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ (5 files): Configure -geometryObjectPath for arb4, arb5, arb6 and arb7.
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21:59.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03r_weiss * r34357 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/typein.c: updated pnts primitive 'in' command, added skeleton logic to allow file input
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090429

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090429

00:11.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34358 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: good gravy nmgs render absurdly slow. order of magnitude. seems to get worse the bigger the smp too. included a lot of detail after investigating.
00:15.12brlcadcan't believe his eyes.. rt_nmg_shot() .. are you serious?
00:16.35``Erikheh, nmg_manifolds() ?
00:17.10brlcadno, look near the end of shot..
00:17.14``Erikor going through and verifying that it's a valid NMG before bothering to shoot?
00:17.31``Erik"build table indicating"...?
00:18.52brlcadthat's prep
00:19.59``Erikoh heh :D wrong func
00:20.25``Erikbu_calloc(), nifty
00:20.40brlcadper ray
00:20.46brlcadand the size isn't even dynamic
00:20.51``Erikyeah, instead of grabbing some off the stack
00:21.10brlcadit's crazy, makes me think I have to be missing something
00:22.01``Erikhrm
00:22.08``Erikthe size is dynamic
00:22.25``Erikprep calculates a maximum possible number of hits
00:22.38``Erikit should probably be allocated at prep and retained in the soltab or something
00:22.40brlcadper sho() it's not
00:22.43brlcadshot()
00:22.52brlcadI mean, it's not dynamic per ray
00:22.56``Erikright, but it's not a compilable static
00:22.57brlcadit's fixed to the model size
00:23.09brlcadright, yeah, didn't mean that
00:23.21``Erikrt_nmg_ialloc() is probably where it should be allocated (once)
00:24.04``Erikbut that'll run up the memory footprint :/ (shouldn't be an issue these days, but that might've been the thinking a the time)
00:25.42brlcadI know nmgs are second-class citizens, but it's really bad the way it is
00:25.52brlcadnot any worse than it is now
00:26.03``Erikhuh?
00:26.13*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
00:26.17brlcadit's calling that malloc per shot() which is per thread
00:26.26brlcad8 threads, 8 callocs
00:26.47brlcadwhich explains why it's a freaking order of magnitude slower than bot
00:26.48``Erikright... you kinda contradicted yourself there, though :D
00:26.50hippieindamakin8hey brlcad
00:27.23brlcadcontradicted?  perhaps misunderstood or wires crossed..
00:27.53``Erikoh, okie, ordering issue
00:27.53brlcadyou said adding to rt_nmg_ialloc would run up the memory foot .. don't see how any change will run up the foot print
00:27.56``Erikgroks
00:28.13brlcadbecause it's already about worst case
00:28.56brlcadnow the only question is whether that ray_data needs to have its own copy of the hitmiss table
00:29.00``Erikif you have 100 nmgs in a scene, right now it allocates "big ugly" for each nmg in order, so "push pop push pop", if each holds its own from prep, it's push push pop pop
00:29.24``Erikno?
00:30.45brlcadnot sure how the rays interact with the model data exactly, but yeah that sounds like that is a possibility
00:31.00``Erikand if ya have 1000 nmg's, each gobbling up a meg for the hit table, taht's a gig consumption *shrug*
00:31.45brlcadcourse right now.. if you have 100 nmgs.. that's 100 * width * height interleaved push/pops instead of just 100
00:32.48``Erik*shrug* I d'no what the common utilization is :) might be one of those things where ya just have to try it and see if it breaks
00:32.49brlcad100 * width * height being just average too .. could be much worse (overlapping objects)
00:33.14brlcadeither way, performance is absolutely abysmal on a simple sphere
00:33.18``Erikis that mod a 'jr developer' task?
00:33.24brlcadmake sph sph ; facetize -n sph.nmg sph
00:35.19``Erikwonders if he's screwing up by trying to find and save these low hanging fruit tasks for new developers O.o
00:39.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34359 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg.c: style consistency cleanup, ws, indent, comments.
00:39.59brlcadI wouldn't think this was one regardless
00:40.45brlcadmucking about in librt is rarely a simple task and should be "over tested" and done so carefully regardless of the change
00:41.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34360 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg.c: didn't mean to sneak in that ray_data.
00:44.49``Erikof course, mucho testing, but the change should be quite simple *shrug*
00:47.38brlcadi think your experience is blinding you, or we have very different thoughts on simple tasks
00:49.02``Erikhm, I'm thinking folk who have a nontrivial background in C development but are new to BRL-CAD
00:49.20brlcadrequires knowledge of optimization, profiling, testing, lots of librt (wtf is a hitmiss, what's a ray_data) to know what to change and how that will impact, to even know that shot() and prep() are and how they interact, etc
00:50.15``Erikthe poolios, not the irix64s :D *duck*
00:50.28brlcadthen yeah, different level
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00:51.08brlcadI'm thinking someone with just a couple years coding experience at most, after intro C at a uni, maybe OO, maybe a couple projects
00:51.42``Erikhttp://www.freebsd.org/projects/ideas/ is my mental model here
00:51.51brlcadsomething that doesn't generally require much planning or research
00:52.02``Erikthat's what the "junior kernel hacker TODO list" grew into
00:52.33``Erikcompetency expected, but a mentor is assigned to help ease one into the twisted dark world of kernel development
00:52.34``Erik:D
00:53.46brlcadwhat they mean by junior is something else entirely
00:54.07brlcadsomeone not yet in the core, not yet proven, regardless of ability
00:54.24brlcadto me, the delineation is more about ability
00:54.36brlcadwe have plenty of "simple" tasks
00:54.40``Erikwell, someone without a commit bit... core is more a guidance body than a development team
00:55.20``Erik*shrug* depends on the target audience, I suppose :) BRL-CAD is not exactly a sophmore project
00:56.13brlcadit's not, but the point is that there are plenty of tasks that don't require more than freshman knowledge, tasks that would be immensely helpful
00:56.22brlcadbut are time-consuming and low-priority
00:57.07``Erikyeah, we had a list of tasks with both technical ability and effort required rated at some point, is that still floating around?
00:57.23``Eriklike a 1-5 scoring iirc
00:57.33brlcadyeah, it's in doc iirc, but it wasn't well organized
00:57.38brlcador at least was
00:57.51``Erikmebbe that's wiki meat
00:58.03brlcadprobably really just need to add complexity to our todo list and expand it with more ideas
00:58.11``Erikdoc/ seems to elude a lot of people O:_)
00:59.33``Erik(I've seen projects transpose characters in their URL to act as a screen, btu I don't wanna be 'that' project... *shrug*)
00:59.43brlcadanother relevant project: http://janitor.kernelnewbies.org/
01:00.52``Erikyeh, I d'no, :) we might not have the pool of interested people to make an effort like that time effective *shrug* I d'no
01:01.11brlcadmore inline with ability in mind .. checking for consistent return codes, function name consistency, api completeness (if you have an alloc routine, you should have a free routine, etc), static functions, etc
01:02.07``Erikheh, -Wall -Werror -W -ansi -pedantic
01:02.13``Erikand valgrind, pheer
01:02.28brlcadyeah, see that is stuff just about anyone can hit up
01:02.36brlcadand really is a great way to get familiar and get started
01:03.09brlcadthen tackling a simple project is probably the next step up
01:03.58``Erik(if someone has more than 4 gigs on a 64b system, I'd kinda like to see someone stub a 4gb allocate in main() and fill the pages to verify we're 64b safe... I hav ea gut feeling that we use unsigned int when we should use void * or size_t)
01:05.20``ErikI looked around your car and didn't see any damage, didja get it repaired already?
01:06.13brlcadnope, I just cleaned it up well
01:06.24brlcadit's on the front
01:06.37``Erikhm, I did notice that wart growing out of your grill
01:06.58``Erikdidja get a 30 day fixit ticket?
01:09.16``Erik2 more weeks or so before I get mine back :(
01:10.34poolio``Erik: hey now, hey now.
01:10.48``Erikhey then, hey then O.o :D
01:12.11*** join/#brlcad LarsG (n=lars@nusnet-228-5.dynip.nus.edu.sg)
01:12.56``Erikglares at doc/docbook/ some
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01:16.37starseeker``Erik: now what'd it do?
01:17.11``Eriktoo many directories with a single operation
01:17.18starseekeryeah, agreed
01:17.37starseekerneeds to fix that...
01:17.50starseekerright after I figure out what I did with tire...
01:17.59``Erikbought a dual core lappie, gets strusfrated when he's cpu blocked without cooking them both :D
01:18.18starseeker:-)
01:20.17brlcad``Erik: no, they don't give fixits just fines
01:20.44``Erikhuh, lame, I was told that they give a fixit and 30 days to show it was done :/
01:21.00brlcadtesting it out, not really happy with it
01:21.10``Erikhalf the cars in my cul de sac don't have front plates
01:21.34``Erikgiven that a sheriff and state trooper live here and there's no issue, I'm under the impression that it's not a very enforced law
01:21.41brlcadsaid I was going to wait until I was stopped at least four of five times, that has already happened
01:21.52brlcadstill putting in for an exemption request
01:22.13brlcadgets too much attention
01:22.16``Erikit is an attention grabbing vehicle...
01:22.31``ErikI'm sure it's just an excuse so they can look it over
01:22.49brlcadfor most of them, it was
01:22.58``Erikthe sedate appearance is one of the things that drew me to the m3
01:23.00brlcadwarnings, wagging fingers, etc
01:23.19brlcadas they rubbed the drool off
01:24.10brlcadanyways, still trying to figure out a workable solution
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01:25.58``Erikfind a state that doesn't require a front plate? :D
01:27.14brlcadPA
01:27.18brlcadWVa
01:28.01``Erikpa is doable, wv is a bit of a commute :D plus ya went and bought a house heh
01:28.22``Erikshoulda bought a house up in pa with a garage, dude ;) *duck*
01:29.02``Erikjust imagine, you coulda started carpooling with ww when the rotational is over!
01:29.41``Erikthinks he's getting his ass kicked tomorrow
01:30.36brlcadhell, I wouldn't move
01:30.47brlcadjust get a residence address, enough for a license
01:31.03brlcadPA would drive me insane, not for me
01:31.17brlcadI'd take no garage over that any day
01:34.13``Erikyou don't HAVE to become amish to live in pa, y'know... it helps, but it's not mandatory... :D
01:35.24brlcadnope, I'm a city bug
01:35.50``Erikphilly isn't a city? :D
01:36.10brlcadhas a lot of good rowing
01:36.17``Erik<-- likes to be near a city, but at the edge of suburbia where it turns into farmland
01:37.07brlcadI love knowing I can bike or even walk to just about anything that I need
01:37.18brlcadessentials, recreation, whatever
01:37.31``Erikpeaceful calm slow home life, but can drive down into the city to hit a show or whatever
01:37.56brlcadand dullards not all going to bed at 9pm, finding something more than taco bell open to eat at 3am
01:38.23``Erikis old, woke up at 5am the last few days wtih no alarm :(
01:38.34brlcadso did I :P
01:38.40``Erikcan't be arsed to drive to denny's, but ...
01:38.54``ErikI said am, not pm :D
01:38.58brlcadto each their own, it's just not what makes me happy
01:39.05``Erik*nod*
01:39.34``ErikI'm annoyed enough at hearing my neighbors here, *shrug*
01:41.01yukonbobhello, #brlcad
01:42.17brlcadhowdy yukonbob
01:42.38yukonbobsaw a funny bumper sticker other day "Honk if you're Amish"
01:43.31yukonbobcontemplates reading 3-4 days of scrollback :P
01:44.08``Erikthere was a large amish community near springfield mo, the stores right on the road were ripoffs, but if you drive down the gravel roads for a bit, there was a totally awesome bulk store, good stuff :)
01:46.44brlcadtries a quick nmg hack
01:46.58``Erikthe memory thing?
01:47.20``Erikhad to distclean and autoreconf, too much crap has changed :/
01:47.27brlcaddamn, no different
01:47.35``Erikstarseeker: http://paste.lisp.org/display/79377  try not to laugh too hard
01:52.10starseekerurm.  surprised there's no solution to the date thing already implemented
01:52.39``ErikI looked around, couldn't find one... I just posted it to #ucw, haven't gotten my beatdown yet
01:54.36``Erikhttp://crit.brlcad.org:9090/dinreedit is the result
01:55.35CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34361 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: problem narrowed down even further. nmg hit/miss book keeping just sucks in a major way. quick test showed a tangible 3x increase, but will require a fair bit of restructuring.
01:56.18yukonbobnotes "bookkeeping" is one word
01:56.59brlcadand book keeping it two words, it's late but not that late ;)
01:57.16``Erikfight! fight! fight!
01:57.17brlcadkeeps his books away from yukonbob
01:57.42yukonbobheh
01:57.57yukonbobwas trying to parse that sentence and had to do double-take
01:58.03yukonbob(or is that doubletake?)
01:58.20``Erikdouble::take;
01:58.24yukonbobheh
01:58.36yukonbobdouble take;
01:58.51yukonbobtake = bookkeeping();
01:59.24``Erikallyourbookkeepingarebelongtome
01:59.29``ErikIcanhasbookkeeping?
01:59.40yukonbobin soviet russia, books keep YOU!
02:00.19``Eriky'know, he ended up in branson
02:00.35``Erikabout half an hour drive from where I used to live :)
02:01.29``Eriksomeone really didn't like the ucw link O.O
02:01.46``Erik(yet no one is adding links, bummer)
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02:58.44starseeker``Erik: nice work with the lisp site!
02:59.03starseekeris jealous - ``Erik has actually made lisp do something useful
03:08.45``Erikô´heh
03:10.03``ErikI'm an 80's coder... I code to get shit done, not to code...
03:16.33RalithI code to cause jellied donuts to spontaneously appear.
03:19.59``Eriksee, that's the thing... back in THE DAY </reverb>, we didn't care of jellied donuts appeared... it was nice when they did, but that wasn't the goal
03:22.51Ralithif jellied donuts weren't the goal you were doing something wrong
03:23.38``Erikheh
03:23.44``Erikdon't make me stab you.
03:24.09RalithI've got powdered sugar and I know how to use it!
03:24.53PrezKennedyheheh 80's coder
03:25.16PrezKennedygettin shit done in FORTRAN :)
03:28.02``Erikbitch, I will beat your ass down
03:28.27``ErikC is a 60's language, LISP is a 50's language, scheme is a 70's language, ...
03:28.52``Eriksmalltalk is 70's, objc and c++ are early 80's
03:30.00brlcadyawns
03:32.36``Eriktsa is old news... I don't think there has been any real advancement since around '85 or so :(
03:51.19starseekerstares at his ellipse equations and wonders why they heck they are working...
03:52.55starseekeroh
03:52.57starseekerright
03:55.55PrezKennedy``Erik, you should program with a 90's language... like Java! ;)
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04:55.11starseekerhmm... these are going to be big enough and elaborate enough to need more room than I originally thought.
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05:46.05madantare things all right in california ? declaration of emergency has pretty bad connotations in india ..
05:53.43madanthope this swine flu episode ends pretty soon.. flus are such a pain in humanity's ass to control..
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06:06.43pacman87starseeker: what ellipse equations?
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10:05.11madanthow mafm
10:05.17madantoops.. howdy :)
10:11.48mafmhai
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12:07.13starseekerpacman87: the ones solved by the tire tool
12:08.55``Eriknow make this tread: http://www.apothema.gr/files/productImages/pilot_sportPILOT%20SPORT.jpg
12:08.56``Erik:D
12:10.50alex_joni``Erik: http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/files/articles/auto_tire485.jpg
12:11.56``Erikheh, the twheel, those're neat
12:12.07alex_joninice to model ;)
12:12.16``Eriktehre's a video where they slapped those on a high perfomrance mb
12:12.23``Erikbut they never showed it actually running, just slowly driving
12:13.34alex_jonihttp://www.geek24.com/g/twheel-airless-wheel-technology-from-michelin <- from 2006, it is kinda working I think
12:13.48``Erikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOSAQjCbXZE
12:15.05``Erikwants to see what they do when put under extremes, like track driving
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13:00.44``Erik*sigh* I made two collosal mistakes. 1) I read the comments on slashdot. 2) I looked up this 'boxxy' mentioned in a comment and now I am ... dain bramaged?
13:01.36``ErikI THINK it's a parody, but it's ...
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13:57.00``Erikthe maddest ant of the all :D
14:08.50madant:P
14:10.06``Erikthem all, even
14:54.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34362 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/rotate_arb_face.c: Handle special cases for arb4 and arb6.
15:54.33*** join/#brlcad ``Erik_ (i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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16:28.22``Erikwatches b5
16:31.51``Erikthis is... actually... really bad...
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17:40.26``Erik(alpha (beta)) == <alpha><beta></beta></alpha> ...
17:40.34``Erikwoops, wrong winder
17:50.59brlcadhello d_rossberg
17:56.44d_rossbergwaves from home
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18:00.03*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
18:00.09brlcadhappy Walpurgisnacht eve
18:01.03*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
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18:03.15d_rossberg:) it's the "Freinacht" in Bavaria
18:04.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34363 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/CombEditFrame.tcl: Minor cleanup.
18:04.40d_rossbergand tomorrow our village gets a new maypole
18:05.07d_rossberg(sorry, i mean on May 1st)
18:05.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34364 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ (5 files): Added code for prompting the user for a rotation point when rotating an arb face.
18:05.32brlcadmaypole?
18:05.43brlcadahh
18:05.48brlcadinteresting, never seen one
18:06.00brlcadwell, maybe I have, but I certainly don't remember -- was too young
18:07.41d_rossbergthey are very commonly here
19:14.33pacman87hi d_rossberg
19:33.00d_rossberghi pacman87
19:34.51d_rossbergi'm your mentor again
19:35.26pacman87so i've noticed :)
19:35.28d_rossbergbut i think you know better than i what you have to do this GSoC
19:35.40d_rossberg;)
19:36.03pacman87i'll try to keep my dev log updated
19:36.43d_rossbergand maybe i can give some advices on higher order geometry
20:10.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34365 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Catch calls to toggleTreePath to so that mRestoringTree gets set back to 0.
20:17.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34366 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Override the kill command in ArcherCore in order to remove any edit panels associated with the object(s) being killed/deleted. Will need to look at other commands that kill/delete objects from the database.
20:48.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34367 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/tire.c:
20:48.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: Add more detailed commentary on the precise nature of the constraints imposed to
20:48.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: define the elliptical torus shapes in the tire tool. The equations don't make
20:48.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: some of the sources of the constraints or the reasons they were used immediately
20:48.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: apparent.
20:56.53*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@223.Red-83-49-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
21:31.49starseeker``Erik: what are your tire dimensions again?
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21:53.36starseeker255-40R18?
23:09.19starseekerbrlcad:  did something about rt_sketch_internal change?
23:09.38starseekerI'm betting a bad pointer crash on sketch.c line 1868
23:09.43starseekerer getting
23:34.55``Erik255/40-18
23:35.13``Erikon the back, 225/45-18 up front
23:35.26starseekerWOULD be testing that, if the friggin thing wasn't bombing all of a sudden
23:39.45starseekerwhat the...
23:39.53starseeker``Erik:  do you have a recent compile?
23:43.20starseekerreverts - no time for this now
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090430

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090430

00:54.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34368 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/tire.c: Try a different approach to getting the trimming cyl height for tread side clipping.
00:55.09starseeker``Erik: see what that does for your tire dimensions
00:55.35starseekerhere it seems to at least produce something reasonable, although I'm sure the tread is still not up to your standards
01:00.37starseekerbegins to understand the fundamental limit on the tall and narrow tires - beyond a certain point, even the elliptical torus becomes self intersecting at the origin
01:20.42*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-67.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
01:25.50starseekerbrlcad: So the best way to count size is to figure out how much information is required to store the minimal number of parameters necessary to represent the various primitives, and then count?
02:17.34*** join/#brlcad schwinn434 (n=schwinn4@cpe-75-81-202-25.we.res.rr.com)
02:40.17starseekerbrlcad: I see the report of faces as part of the opennurbs object summary, but it's not immediately clear how much information is really needed per face
02:40.36starseekerwhat's the best way to estimate something like that?
02:41.19starseekereach trim seems to need a fair bit of info, and the number of trims per face varies
02:51.50starseekeranybody know how to edit bots in mged?
03:17.31*** join/#brlcad schwinn434 (n=schwinn4@75.81.202.25)
03:26.23starseekerattempts to work around the issue...
03:27.26starseeker<grin> tire creation in Rhino:  http://www.toxiclab.org/tutorial.asp?ID=122
03:50.24starseekergrr.  ok, that's enough failed tesselations for one night. :/
04:07.21brlcadstarseeker: there have been a few sketch changes but nothing that should affect a RT_SKETCH_CK_MAGIC check
04:14.50brlcadand yes, you need a basic 'value' count per primitive type -- the implicits are a constant, bots are minimally constant*numfaces, sketches are (minimally) count of 2d points plus 4
04:15.02brlcade.g., eto looks to be 11 values
04:17.31brlcada sphere would be 4 or 6 or 12 depending on how you count
04:17.44brlcad(4 for the sake of the poster)
04:19.10brlcadi think bots are simply 9*numtriangles
04:23.42brlcadfor nurbs 'faces', if you find the approximate face count, we can probably determine a minimum bound (e.g., 12 per surface)
04:25.02brlcadyou should be able to approximate the surface count
04:25.20brlcad(without having an actual count)
05:08.08starseekercounted faces for nurbs
05:08.48starseekeraround 2562
05:09.28starseekerfor the default treaded tire
05:10.21starseekerassuming you don't break the tire surface up into individual chunks due to the tread
05:12.44starseekerthe implicit model I'm coming up with 916, not counting the extrude needing the sketch name, the matricies used to rotate the tread pattern around the tire, or the combination storage
05:13.50starseekertriangles... I've got 2684 faces for the wheel, 11902 for a non-treaded tire (no wheel) and I'm still working on the tread
05:14.36starseekershould be easily over 20000
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07:32.13madanthowdy hippieindamakin8
07:32.21hippieindamakin8hey madant
07:32.33madanthows nmg hacking going
07:32.37hippieindamakin8wassup ? i am finally done with the exams trying to work now :P
07:32.48hippieindamakin8just started dude after a big fat lunch
07:33.02hippieindamakin8just rewriting the code
07:33.11hippieindamakin8(as in my code)
07:33.18madantah kewl.. i had a big fat lunch myself .. thinking of a siesta before swimming ;)
07:33.46madantstill at kanpur or going home soon for sometime ?
07:33.49hippieindamakin8is hiding in the computer science building to escape from the hear
07:33.51hippieindamakin8*heat
07:34.16hippieindamakin8madant, yeah might go home to bangalore towards mid-may
07:34.35madantat kharagpur, it reached 45 some days ago i heard.. and it is humid as hell .. sweat galore..
07:35.44hippieindamakin8yeah it is smthing similar here. 45-46
07:35.47hippieindamakin8today it is 42
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08:42.08mafmhi
08:46.07hippieindamakin8hey  mafm
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11:35.54hippieindamakin8madant, look what somebody wants to do with his GSoC money : http://dpaste.com/39576/
12:06.12archivistneeds weeding out
12:14.42hippieindamakin8heh
12:50.38d-lomernin all
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13:05.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34369 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/CMakeLists.txt: enable compilation of the nmg_junk.c source file so that CMakeLists.txt stays in sync with Makefile.am
13:16.38CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34370 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/BrlcadCore.def: added rt_get_functab_by_label
13:30.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34371 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS:
13:30.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: added Philip Knaute to the contributors list for his work on the core's C++ interface
13:30.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: not all of my work on BRL-CAD is paid
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15:42.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34372 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: optimize nmgs
15:45.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34373 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: refactor the functab
16:03.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34374 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/fb.h src/libfb/fb_generic.c src/libfb/fb_paged_io.c): reorganize and cleanup fb_paged_io so that we don't need to declare or export fg_pgin/pgout/pgflush.
16:06.35CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34375 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/fb_generic.c: ws cleanup
16:10.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34376 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpkg/ (pkg.c tpkg.c): clean up
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16:30.51JucaBluesdoes brlcad suppot multi-threading ?
17:02.50*** join/#brlcad jonored (n=jonored@LAZARUS2.WIFI.WPI.EDU)
17:17.42*** part/#brlcad JucaBlues (n=felipe@189.79.76.51)
17:31.43*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
17:31.43*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.6 posted (20090403) || Congratulations to D.Thomas, E.Bautu, J.Doliner, T.Ruitenbeek, and B.Saunders! || GSoC2009 Next Step: do the checklist(!), introduce yourself, meet the mentors, finalize milestones -- coding begins May 23rd
19:50.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34377 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/express/expscan.l: Replaced static token table with one generated from lexer.
20:10.36*** join/#brlcad dreeves (n=IceChat7@64.178.177.71)
20:25.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34378 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (9 files): initial stubs for step converter, more to come
20:25.57starseekergo indianlarry, go!
20:28.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34379 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (conv/Makefile.am other/Makefile.am): added other/step and conv/step to build if enabled
22:00.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34380 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: yet another vile fb_pgflush()ism. change to a straight up fb_flush.
22:09.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34381 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: ws indent cleanup
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23:55.10``Eriknote to self: barrel rolls are for planes, not boats
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090501

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090501

00:29.34starseekeris afraid to ask
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01:31.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34382 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: (log message trimmed)
01:31.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: Need src/conv/step in the list for Makefile generation. Attempts to build as of
01:31.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: r34379 seems to suggest that there are missing files that need to be checked in
01:31.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: to get a working src/conv/step build - ssince src/conv/step is currently keying
01:31.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: off the BUILD_STEP variable (which bty it shouldn't do that forever - in theory
01:31.50CIA-28BRL-CAD: it should check for a system install if BUILD_STEP is off) turn off STEP
01:31.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: altogether until it the rest of the necessary files get checked in. This is a
01:35.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34383 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c: Another instance of fb_pgflush - change to fb_flush
01:36.44starseekermakes a note to mention the svn status command to indianlarry...
01:45.05starseekerbrlcad: Sean, FB_WPIXEL in include.h seems to be using _fb_pgin and _fb_pgout - I'm getting a linking error when I try to build libfb
01:47.27starseekerfb/fbgrid.c, fbed/fbed.c and lgt/reflect.c are using FB_WPIXEL
01:54.36*** join/#brlcad madant_ (n=d@117.196.132.131)
01:54.42starseekercan we define FB_WPIXEL in the fb_paged_io.c and export that?
01:55.17starseekerisn't sure how that works for inline versions of things...
02:00.16brlcadhm, looking
02:03.48starseekerer, include/fb.h rather
02:03.58brlcadnods
02:05.53brlcadthat's three very obscure tools .. they can probably just use fb_wpixel instead.. I really doubt the "inline" performance boost is signficant any longer
02:06.06starseekeralrightie
02:06.09starseekerwant me to get it?
02:06.17starseekerq
02:06.19starseekerwhoops
02:07.05brlcadyou can if you beat me to it, but it's my mess to clean up
02:07.21starseekeris stubbornly working towards a build ;-)
02:16.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34384 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Remove inline version of fb_wpixel, change calls to non-inline version - speed change is likely not significant any longer and the inline version requres exposure of fb_pgin and fb_pgout
02:17.27brlcadoof, heh
02:17.55brlcadbeat me to it by mere seconds
02:18.18starseekerheh, sorry :-)
02:18.32brlcadno matter, trivial change
02:18.36brlcadbut thanks
02:18.46starseekernp :-)
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02:20.51starseekersighs in relief
02:20.56starseekeron the docs now
02:21.09starseekerbrlcad: is that an ok hack for the step build until monday?
02:21.20starseekereither I'm nuts or there's a bunch of files not committed yet
02:21.38starseeker(or both)
02:24.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34385 10/brlcad/trunk/ (doc/deprecation.txt include/fb.h): deprecate FB_WPIXEL since it's been around for such a long time 'just in case'.
02:25.54brlcadstarseeker: good enough for now, sure
02:26.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34386 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/ (exppp/Makefile.am express/Makefile.am): Whoops. Commit fixes for src/other/step Makefile.am files so they will work with multiple processor building.
02:26.57starseekerbrlcad: OK, we'll be nice about it ;-)
02:27.44starseekerwaves broadsword wildly over his head with manical look in his eyes - "Cut 'em out!"
02:28.45starseekernow, let's see what happens with tire...
02:30.31starseekerERROR: bad pointer x9b474b0: s/b rt_sketch_internal(x736b6574), was Unknown_Magic(x65787472), file ../../../brlcad/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch.c, line 1868
02:32.29brlcadstarseeker: that's very interesting
02:33.02brlcadthis is why magic numbers are so useful :)
02:34.14brlcadif you look up the unknown magic, it's very insightful
02:34.53brlcadand that line number is telling, has to be related to the changes
02:35.48starseekerlibbu/magic.c?
02:38.17starseekerah, got a bomb trace that means something
02:38.27starseekerrt_sketch_ifree
02:38.42starseekercalled from rt_extrude_ifree
02:39.13brlcaddid you look at the unknown magic?
02:39.50starseekerI looked at the c file - doesn't that mean it can't tell what it is?
02:40.05brlcadnot the c file
02:41.04brlcadwhenever you see a magic code, you should look it up
02:41.06starseekeroh - that number matches RT_EXTRUDE_INTERNAL_MAGIC?
02:41.12brlcadthere ya go
02:41.24starseekererm
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02:41.29brlcadso sketch's ifree was called, but seemingly passed an extrude object
02:41.59starseekerchecks rt_extrude_ifree
02:42.32hippieindamakin8waves at everybody and wishes
02:42.35brlcadobviously related to my recent change, but tbd whether it's an init problem now that it's going through the functab or some other issue
02:45.10starseekerextrude.c:2321 is where the call is coming from
02:45.17brlcaddo you see the bug :)
02:45.38starseekergiving it ip of extrude?
02:45.39brlcadhas it fixed, fwiw
02:45.43brlcadyep
02:45.52starseekercool
02:46.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34387 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/extrude/extrude.c: free the sketch that the extrude was using, not the extrude itself. and good gravy, don't pass the extrude to sketch's ifree.
02:46.13brlcadcopy-paste bug of a var that just happened to work in that scope
02:46.15starseekerthanks!
02:46.39starseekerthanks for the magic number tutorial - that helps :-)
02:47.12starseekerwon that one :-P
02:47.20starseekerer you won that one
02:47.51starseekertests
02:49.38brlcadreviews the other ifree() mods in case similar mistakes were injected
02:49.41starseeker../../../brlcad/src/librt/primitives/extrude/extrude.c: In function 'rt_extrude_ifree':
02:49.44starseeker../../../brlcad/src/librt/primitives/extrude/extrude.c:2321: error: incompatible type for argument 1 of 'tmp_ip.idb_meth->ft_ifree'
02:49.50brlcadbah
02:49.53brlcadstill compiling :)
02:51.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34388 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/extrude/extrude.c: poinnnterrrrrr
02:51.33starseeker&tmp_ip rather than tmp_ip?
02:51.38brlcadthere's another thing noteworthy about your bad pointer message
02:51.39brlcadyes
02:51.50brlcadUnknown_Magic
02:51.57brlcadit's clearly not "unknown"
02:52.03starseekeryes
02:52.06brlcadwhich means the table is out of sync (and should be syncd)
02:52.21brlcaddoesn't like that table
02:52.31brlcadneeds to be a better way to register magic numbers
02:52.36starseekeraaah.  I was wondering a little why it didn't go ahead and say something useful...
02:52.39brlcadbut C does make that a pain
02:53.15starseekerthat's the magic.c table?
02:54.00starseekerlooks at the Primitives section and his jaw drops
02:54.13starseekerno eto, no hyp, no sketch, no extrude...
02:54.37starseekerouch
02:55.43starseekerchecks first this time - you working on it already?
02:57.30brlcadnope
02:57.39starseekerhops to it
02:57.46starseekerhere magic.h magic.h magic.h...
02:58.32brlcadI spent a good bit of time cleaning up magic.h many moons ago, left magic.c as an exercise to the reader
02:59.49brlcadmagic.c isn't maintainable as-is .. and it was way too much of a diversion to make it something better at the time
03:00.03starseekernods
03:00.07brlcadlooks like extrude was isolated..
03:00.08brlcad-rt_sketch_ifree(&tmp_ip);
03:00.09brlcad+tmp_ip.idb_meth->ft_ifree(ip, resp);
03:00.26starseekeryep, sneaky
03:08.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34389 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/magic.c: Gah - update the magic.c list of primitives so the error messages know about more primitives
03:08.58starseekerstill unmaintainiable, but hopefully slightly more useful
03:13.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34390 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/magic.c: update libbu magic.c entries while we're at it.
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03:17.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34391 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/magic.c: update nmg magic.c entries.
03:34.35CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34392 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/magic.c: and update the rest of magic.c's entries. RT_CNURB and RT_SNURB are apparently duplicates of other magic value definitions - leave the originals
03:34.41starseekerthere we go
03:35.12starseekeryep, tire is working again too
03:35.15starseekerawesome
03:44.39starseekercalls it a night
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06:27.24dreeveshey so I notice that breplicator and brep_cube is generating errors and not generating the test case and did anyone get a chance to work on any more test cases?
06:35.13starseekerdreeves: beyond what I've got up on bz?
06:35.28starseekerI can make some more - the current ones are showing errors last time I looked
06:35.53starseekerhaven't tried the test cubes lately - what's the failure?
06:36.20starseekergah.  
06:36.34starseekermust sleep now - will answer once consciousness is regained
06:38.42dreevesstarseeker I have been busy on something else lately so if you have created more then I don't know about them.  The only one I'm finding is brep_pinch
06:39.55dreevesI will go check out bz
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11:50.23starseekerdreeves: everything other than nurbs_tests.g in http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/nurbs_tests/ is "new"
11:50.41starseekerI don't have the sh script set up to raytrace the new ones, unfortunately
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12:31.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34393 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/breplicator.cpp: turn off the new face as the new face doesn't have the right UV trimming parameters (domain is wrong iirc), but is still a good example for understanding how the trims work.
12:31.48brlcaddreeves: that last commit makes breplicator.cpp work again -- the new face that was added was a trimming example
12:40.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34394 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/brep_cube.cpp: this wasn't broken, just quirky. you had to provide an(y) argument or it wouldn't write out the geometry file. the subsequent db_lookup would then get passed a null dbip, causing a bomb to go off.
12:41.08brlcadand that 'fixes' the brep_cube example (it wasn't broken, just dumb)
13:03.53dreevesok thanks
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18:18.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34395 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: libfb needs to have fb_open_existing/fb_close_existing pushed up into the fb functab and the #ifdef sections eliminated.
18:44.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34396 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/Makefile.am: this still needs a lot of work. the built sources aren't declared portably. add a BUILT_SOURCES section, sort, and make the vars specify one-per-line. the fedex sources should be a noinst lib.
18:46.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34397 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/getput.c: remove the vax section. DEPRECATE all of these routines as they are exactly what libbu provides.
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19:02.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34398 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: meh
19:02.41starseekerheh - that's a bob commit message ;-)
19:02.47brlcad:)
19:02.53``Eriknah, too many syllables
19:02.58madanthah
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19:15.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34399 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/pkg.h src/libpkg/pkg.c): pkg_2send's buffers aren't modified. declare them const.
19:27.48brlcadyeah, looks like the few references I can find indicate a 20-30% acceptance rate roughly
19:27.58starseekerndos
19:28.01starseekerer nods even
19:28.04brlcadthe paper rate is 15-20%
19:28.13brlcadvaries year/year
19:28.20starseekernot too surprising really
19:32.14brlcadlooks like rate was 18% in 2008 if this random guy's count is correct
19:36.50CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34400 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_remote.c: convert all fbputshort/fbputlong/fbgetshort/fbgetlong calls to the corresponding libbu xdr routine (bu_pshort and friends), using unsigned char pointers were appropriate and casting as needed when going through libpkg.
19:41.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34401 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_remote.c: ws style indent comment cleanup
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19:50.08brlcadhello JucaBlues
19:50.14JucaBlueshi!
19:50.30brlcadinkscape always welcome ;)
19:50.37JucaBlues:-)
19:51.05JucaBluesI've been looking at libdwg
19:51.11JucaBluesit is written in esperanto!!!
19:51.15brlcadsorry to hear that ;)
19:51.31JucaBlueswe gotta fork that!
19:51.32brlcadahh, yeah.. it's got a lot wrong with it :)
19:51.33JucaBlues:-P
19:51.46brlcadaside from dwg being a horrible format
19:52.13JucaBluesyeah, I know, but we need to build the "bridge", dont we?
19:52.29brlcadthere's lots of bridges possible ;)
19:52.56brlcaddxf is generally better and nearly as pervasive as dwg
19:53.11brlcadbtw, there is 'opendwg' from the creative alliance
19:53.28brlcadmired in legal woes with autodesk, but they're further along iirc
19:53.37JucaBluesdoes brlcad deal with both file formats?
19:53.48brlcads/creative alliance/open design alliance/
19:53.53brlcadwe deal with dxf
19:53.58JucaBluesbut opendwg libs are proprietary...
19:54.21JucaBluesthe only good thing I see in opendwg is their documentation of reverse engineering efforts
19:54.46brlcaddwg would be 'nice' ... but not necessary or a priority frankly given it's a proprietary format that autodesk is intent on defending
19:55.39brlcadour more current efforts have been towards beefing up dxf support (all 3d entities, and now nearly all 2d entities)
19:55.50brlcadand in implementing a full STEP conversion capacity
19:55.56brlcadthat's our hot one atm
19:56.01brlcadbig project
19:56.30JucaBluesnot having dwg support would lead to less poeple adopting freesoftware CAD tools such as brlcad ? (in your opinion)
19:56.33brlcadcurious, what do you need dwg for?
19:57.00JucaBluesI am not a CAD user
19:57.07JucaBluesI am a developer wishing to help
19:57.25JucaBluesso, I am not totally aware of users needs
19:57.26brlcadthere are so many proprietary CAD formats, no I don't think not supporting dwg would be a major deciding factor for anyone -- it's more about usability and features of the CAD system
19:57.58JucaBluesbut it seems to me that support for proprietary file formats would be good in order to lower the barrier to adoption of free software tools
19:58.25brlcadjust about every major CAD vendor has a massively popular proprietary format that they default to .. dwg is only as visible as it is because of autocad's big (30% or so) market share
19:59.29brlcadJucaBlues: I'd certainly agree with you there .. it's more a matter of time and priorities, and the payoff (in terms of adoption/users/visibility/etc)
20:00.47brlcadwe could spend a lot of time trying to reverse engineer any of the top five proprietary formats, or implement one of several major open interchange formats (that most of the major CAD vendors support) like STEP, IGES, and DXF
20:01.25brlcadthe payoff is much greater .. so long as they can export their data from their system and import
20:01.53JucaBluesI have been in touch with free software since my first years at university (2003). Then, since mid-2007 I've been helping Inkscape. In the university I've been advocating alot about freesoftware
20:02.07brlcadstarseeker: were you doing a build on mac or linux yesterday when you were fixing src/conv/step?
20:02.11JucaBluesonly now, in 2009, we have successfully founded a study group here
20:02.16starseekerbrlcad: mac
20:02.20brlcadhuh, odd
20:02.24starseekerwhy, is it busted still?
20:02.27brlcadi'm getting failures on the built sources
20:02.29brlcadyeah, it is
20:02.30JucaBluesand we are now focusing on cad tools
20:02.31starseekerarrrgh
20:02.32brlcadI can fix it, though
20:02.38brlcadJucaBlues: what sort of focus?
20:02.59JucaBlueswe are trying to figure out a way of helping free software CAD tools
20:03.04brlcadJucaBlues: and glad to hear about the advocacy, good stuff ;)  
20:03.41JucaBlueswe are a group of half dozen people and we meet once a week to discuss it
20:03.52JucaBluessome of us are coders
20:04.05brlcadthat's where I would emphasize interoperability through the few open standards (if you preserve everything exported, users really don't care)
20:04.10JucaBluesothers are more interested in political aspects of the free software movement
20:04.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34402 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/tire.c: Sigh. Try another tread pattern tweak for tire.
20:04.28brlcadSTEP is the big one that just about every single major CAD vendor adopted in early 2000's
20:04.50brlcadthat was a massive ISO collaboration to 'solve' the interoperability problems and proprietaryness
20:05.16brlcadthe only problem for open source is that ISO spec is freaking expensive and enormous (as it's sort of the combination of all CAD formats into one)
20:05.31brlcadfortunately for us, though, we have it ;)
20:05.35JucaBluesexpensive?!
20:05.40brlcadISO
20:05.45JucaBluesisnt it freely distributed just like SVG?
20:05.46brlcadiso sells their specs
20:05.54brlcadlike ISO C
20:06.13brlcadyou won't just find the C standard floating around the web, you have to buy it
20:07.11JucaBluessad...
20:07.35brlcadbut like I said, not so much an issue with anyone that works with us on step since we have copies of the specification, provided via ARL for BRL-CAD use
20:07.59brlcadyeah, CAD is one of the biggest industries that have the least open source penetration
20:08.08brlcadand massive vendor lock-in through proprietary formats
20:08.22brlcadeven ISO STEP is a massive step forward, *ahem*
20:08.42brlcadmuch better than the alternatives
20:09.20brlcadbut it's not all about the file formats.. that's only a small piece to the puzzle, and one I'd argue that's not nearly as important as, say, usability and features
20:09.33brlcadusability in particular
20:09.37JucaBluescan brlcad be easily used for 2d architecture work? or is it really a CAD tool focused in  engineering ?
20:10.37brlcadit can be (and has been) used for 2d and architecture work, it's just not an area of emphasis (read: an area the current core devs focus on)
20:10.53JucaBluesok, cool
20:11.08brlcadhere's a broad brush-strokes overview of the main areas being worked:  http://brlcad.org/BRL-CAD_Priorities.png
20:11.46brlcadturning brl-cad into a fully hybrid modeler, bolstering the open source community, improved infrastructure, and a better gui
20:12.12brlcadwe have a ton of functionality (more than blender believe it or not), but you wouldn't know it given our gui/usability
20:12.41JucaBluesbut it has fundamental differences if compared to blender, right?
20:12.57brlcadso a lot of work is going into strapping up a new interface, making the existing binaries be plugin functionality to that new interface
20:13.05brlcadabsolutely
20:13.10brlcadblender is a content modeler
20:13.23brlcadcontent modelers are horribly suited for CAD work, at a fundamental level
20:14.37brlcadakin to the fundamental difference between other commercial content modelers like 3D Studio MAX or even Maya .. compared to the likes of AutoCAD, Solidworks, NX, CATIA, Pro/E
20:14.43brlcadnight and day
20:14.57brlcadthe similarities sort of end at "they both deal with modeling"
20:16.00JucaBluesI got impressed by brlcad statistics (such as 20 years old development history). Does it still have funding from US government? Is the core dev team employed to develop it?
20:16.06brlcadJucaBlues: so do you have a goal or just surveying what's out there or looking for a niche to work on or ..?
20:16.45brlcadyeah, the project was started circa 1979, first release in 1984, so more than 25 years now
20:17.01brlcadit is still majorly funded by ARL
20:17.53brlcadmany of the devs have full-time jobs with ARL, but not all, and even many of those that are employed invest even more time outside of work of their own volition
20:18.44JucaBlueswe are committed to using free software on one of our university labs (we are the guys who removed MSWindows from those PCs) and now we have to figure out how to provide free software solutions to the needs of the projects that are developed in this lab
20:19.07brlcadI estimated a while back that the open source contributors will probably exceed the funded contributors in two or three years if our rate of development continues to increase and the open source community continues to grow (which would be awesome)
20:20.34brlcadwell we are the *only* open source CAD system that's actually in production use, of production quality, but we are certainly very far off from most of the commercial codes (particularly wrt usability) too
20:20.39brlcad;)
20:20.47brlcadnice to hear that commitment, though
20:21.19JucaBlueswe figured out that most of the projects there will need CAD. So we started this research initially focusing on CAD tools. We nedd to (1) tell them which free software they should use. (2) set up the machines (install/compile it) and (3) provide guidance (tutorials/courses)
20:22.58JucaBluesand we think that we should code stuff in case we figure out that the available solutions are still not enough
20:23.11brlcadour biggest issue in terms of replacing something like autocad is drafting facilities (2d sketch support needs more work), constraints and parametric support (a GSoC project now for the second year), and gui usability (huge overhaul effort under way)
20:24.04JucaBluesare there tutorials available regarding the 2d stuff? where can I read more about it?
20:24.06brlcadwell if you all decide that you're interested in working with brl-cad, you're more than welcome any time
20:24.36brlcadI don't think our goals are separate, more just only so many clock ticks per day and existing core devs are pulled in dozens of directions with goals :)
20:24.49brlcadmmm.. 2d tutorials
20:25.07brlcadyeah .. there are, but it really is sucky
20:25.18brlcadeasier to script their use than it is to use the gui
20:25.24brlcadunfortunately
20:25.57brlcadnot sure where they're at though.. hm.
20:30.30brlcadfor what it's worth, another reason the 2D support is minimal is that most of the industry has moved away from utilizing a 2D drafting approach as the foundation, instead modeling directly in 3D with 3D techniques and deriving 2D as needed
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20:31.14brlcadplus we're a solid modeler, so 2D entities are totally second-class citizens .. you can't do anything with them without an extrusion/sweep/revolve operation to define a volume :)
20:31.35brlcadsimilar to how the big-boys treat them, just with a worse 2D sketcher :)
20:33.38JucaBlues(sorry ... I was on telephone here)
20:34.14JucaBluesso... it is cool to hear that there is 2d support even though it seems to be minimal and not very user friendly
20:34.15brlcadnp
20:34.21brlcadI rant from time to time ;)
20:34.32brlcadyeah, the support is totally there engine-wise
20:34.37brlcadgui-wise, it's teh suck
20:35.02JucaBluesI am participating on GSoC again this year (in inkscape), so I cant get committed to another project right now
20:35.26brlcadthat's why we can import a DXF nearly faithfully, most of their entities (2d and 3d) transcribes to one of our entities
20:35.28JucaBluesbut I will inform my colegues about it
20:35.36brlcadcool
20:35.51brlcadwell if you want to dabble, or if they want to dabble, welcome to
20:36.05brlcadcommit access is an easy deal for competent folks :)
20:36.20brlcadwhat's your gsoc project?
20:36.26JucaBluesok. is there a subset of the coders who are most familiar with the 2d stuff (gui and core) ?
20:36.37JucaBlueswho sould I contact?
20:37.00brlcadbest to just ask in here or on the brlcad-devel mailing list, someone will chime in
20:37.09brlcadhighly likely I will answer if someone else doesn't :)
20:37.34JucaBluesok. are you sort of a project leader?
20:37.35brlcadnotes that tendancy even with hundreds of folks on the list :P
20:38.04brlcadyeah
20:38.33JucaBluesMay I know your name? Or do you preffer the anonimity?
20:38.41brlcadi'm Sean
20:38.58JucaBluespleased to meet you, Sean. I am Felipe Sanches.
20:39.20madant:) anonymity .. synonymity rather :D
20:39.24brlcadlikewise, pleasure :)
20:39.46brlcadChristopher Sean Morrison in full absurdity longness ;)
20:39.53JucaBluesI think that it is rare to have such a great/fast feedback on other projects irc channels
20:40.26brlcadoh chatter here comes and goes too .. just depends what's going on, I was between commits and almost always available on irc
20:40.27JucaBluesFelipe Corrêa da Silva Sanches in full (mine is longer :-P)
20:40.32brlcadhaha
20:41.36JucaBluesah! My SoC project this year is user interface improvements for CMYK colorspace and ICC color profiles handling in Inkscape
20:42.22JucaBluesLast year I worked on initial implementation of SVG Fonts support in Inkscape (which is one of the features defined in the SVG 1.1 spec)
20:42.26brlcadcool, like preference selection and applying to the current project?
20:43.32JucaBluescolor transforming palettes and color pickers using the currently selected target device color profile
20:43.36brlcadthinks it would be awesome to have a brl-cad composite renderer that output svg ... mmm
20:52.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34403 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: vector renderer ala rtedge but with vectors instead of raster and with support for filled regions.
20:53.03starseekerbrlcad: that needs nurbs, doesn't it?
20:55.39brlcadto be done "well", yeah probably, but depends
20:56.10brlcadi mean rtedge could probably do a fantastic job as it is
20:56.36brlcadwith just region tracking and interpolating a spline between contiguous regions
20:57.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34404 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): get gone getput()
21:44.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34405 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: use single tick quotes to avoid escaping
21:49.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34406 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (Makefile.am needFunc.cc needFunc.h):
21:49.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: this should at least restore the build to a working state for now. make it an
21:49.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: EXTRA_PROGRAMS so we can traverse into here even though the fedex stuff isn't
21:49.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: being generated. (STEP_FEDEX_PLUS, STEP, and STEP_AP203 are not subst'd) few
21:49.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: other minor changes are keeping 'sources' and headers declared separately for
21:49.05CIA-28BRL-CAD: consistency.
21:50.05CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34407 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: can traverse into src/conv/step again (though it won't do anything due to the EXTRA_PROGRAMS declaration)
22:08.33Ralithbrlcad: that *would* be really cool
22:23.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34408 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/Makefile.am: don't even make them a clean rule so dist doesn't try to clean them
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23:26.46brlcadRalith: so you're ready to take it on? :)
23:26.52brlcadwould be a fun little project for someone
23:26.54Ralithhehe
23:27.00brlcadnot even that hard really
23:27.14Ralithperhaps once I know my way around librt.
23:27.29Ralithor, even better, once nurbs is working.
23:27.46brlcadeven as a sampled approximation, it would look pretty superb
23:27.51Ralithindeed.
23:28.12brlcadwith nurbs, you'd still have to figure out the projected contours and those aren't so easy
23:28.15Ralithbut then, rtedge's output would give pretty good results just tracing using standard tools, no?
23:30.00brlcadwhat do you mean?
23:30.45Ralithvector auto-tracers
23:30.52Ralithdunno what they're called
23:31.02Ralithbut like in inskcape, you can just tell it to trace a bitmap
23:31.07Ralithinkscape*
23:31.36brlcadright now rtedge fires rays at the model in a grid and looks at each neighbor to a ray to determine if it's on an "edge"
23:31.45brlcadif it is, it renders a pixel for that grid cell
23:31.59Ralithyes.
23:32.03Ralithand then you take that render as an image
23:32.10Ralithand feed it to a vector tracing tool.
23:32.20Ralithtracing as in following the lines, not raytracing
23:32.27brlcadinstead of rendering a pixel, it'd probably need to instead store a spline control point on that edge
23:34.16brlcadwalking over the grid of results, you could build up the 2d connected spline paths, output as svg
23:34.32Ralithyeah
23:34.35brlcadlittle more detail than that, but it's the jist
23:34.56RalithI'm just commenting that output as a plain bitmap could probably be converted into a svg for pretty good results too
23:35.07Ralithalbeit not *as* good
23:35.10brlcadand if you threw in some adaptive refinement sampling, the result would probably be pretty indistinguishable from a projected brep
23:35.16brlcadahh
23:35.17brlcadyeah
23:35.22brlcadI tried that a few years ago
23:35.31brlcadit was pretty bad
23:35.59brlcadreconstructing connectivity based on raster image alone is starting with too much information lost
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090502

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090502

01:28.08yukonbobafternoon, cadheads
01:32.59``ErikSILENCE! erm, I mean, hello!
01:37.03``Erikthis new buffer shit on hulu sucks
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13:45.53``Erikhuh http://tour.diabetes.org/
13:50.42``Erikawesome, emacs core dumped on me
13:55.29madant_:D some people are just so lucky :D
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18:13.17yukonbobhello, cadheads
18:13.31yukonbobgeez...
18:13.50yukonbobI can see my "afternoon, cadheads" from yesterday on the screen still :P
18:24.04``Eriksshh
18:47.36PrezKennedyi cant cuz of all the joins/parts
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22:50.18JucaBluesI got this error during compilation: error while loading shared libraries: librt.so.19: cannot map zero-fill pages: Cannot allocate memory
22:50.23JucaBluesis it a known issue?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090503

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090503

00:29.16brlcadwow, that's odd/new/unknown
00:40.23``Eriksounds like a busted compiler or os that doesn't quite understand bss
00:44.34brlcadwas he the guy working in cygwin?
00:46.21``Erikd'no, but google is showing that error only showing up on debian and ubuntu x86
00:48.04``Erikand some of them are for binary distributed files, I have a feeling that debian build a messed up kernel or libc that ubuntu used
00:48.13``Erikand this guy had that bad piece (or bad combo of pieces)
00:48.23brlcadah
00:49.35``Erikand given the frequency of ubuntu vs debian, I'd say ubuntu is drastically far more popular among the folk who'd stop and ask on forums and mailing lists
00:50.42``Erikso, yeah, busted os would be my guess based on some research and no dialog with the dude :)
00:50.51``Erikgoes back ot watching b5
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13:46.33brlcadyawns
13:50.41madantyawns
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14:57.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r34409 10/jbrlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): PreppedDb was not actually creating a SpacePartition tree.
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20:38.37``Erikrubs his wallet side ass cheek
20:38.42``Erikowwww, bills suck
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22:55.46PrezKennedyyay billz
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090504

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090504

00:14.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r34410 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/geometry/BrlcadDb.java: Added a bit more info to an Exception
00:16.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r34411 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/ (7 files in 5 dirs): Mods to handle empty trees and null Bounding Boxes
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08:45.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03ddreeves70 * r34412 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (opennurbs_ext.cpp primitives/brep/brep.cpp): Modified to use the GetClosestPoint function when I can but still needs more work
08:57.39dreeves_starseeker you get a chance maybe you can try the changes out on some of the new test shapes.  I think these changes will help some.
09:00.29brlcadawesome
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09:21.43mafmhi
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10:13.37d-lomernin all!
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12:40.40starseeker``Erik: amen
12:40.55starseekerdreeves_: great!  I'll give it a shot once I get to my work machine
12:43.26brlcadhowdy mafm
13:30.34starseekergrowls at ps2pdf
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14:17.29madant_loves djvu
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15:29.09brlcadwaves to elena
15:30.04brlcadstarseeker: chart looked good
15:30.16elenawaves back
15:30.49brlcadmaybe even too much info for the poster, but did cover the basics
15:51.06starseekerbrlcad: thanks!
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18:21.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34413 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Arb8EditFrame.tcl: Minor cleanup.
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19:05.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34414 10/brlcad/trunk/ (9 files in 5 dirs): Added code to edit ellipsoid attributes in Archer via the mouse.
19:07.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34415 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: update variables for step-g
19:58.09*** part/#brlcad elena (n=ebautu@89.136.118.141)
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23:46.43starseekerbrlcad: can pages do things like merged cells in tables?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090505

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090505

05:56.58*** join/#brlcad madant_ (n=d@117.196.139.52)
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07:07.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34416 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added scale_ell.c to stay in sync with Makefile.am
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08:55.30mafmhi
08:56.11brlcadhi!
09:23.30mafmbrlcad: I was talking with a friend yesterday and reminded me of our discussions
09:23.36mafmhe hates Ogre with passion
09:24.27mafmit seems that the holy wars about 3d engines are the new rage, after sysv vs bsd, vi vs emacs and kde vs gnome :D
09:32.52``Erikhrm, yet a new convert O.o I'm pimping BRL-CAD on WoW :(
09:33.03``Eriklemme guess, crystal space? :D
09:33.19``Erikhas yet to find a 3d engine that doesn't suck
09:33.54mafmyep, he's a crystal space partisan :D
09:33.56``Erikof course, vim and emacs each suck in their own way... bsd and sysv each have their issues... linux just sucks, plain and simple
09:34.05mafmand yes, I don't like much any of them
09:34.45``Erik(and windows makes black holes look like minor deflective entities)
09:36.30mafmlol
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10:21.41d-loMernin all!  ``Erik, you're up early!
10:25.01archivistsleep seg faulted
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12:43.49archivistbrlcad, been seeing that type of spam on other lists
13:01.22brlcadarchivist: I know, I've read that it looks like viral social networking
13:01.52brlcadthat if you sign up on yaari, it spams everyone in your contact list after you import them (automatically and unknown to the user)
13:02.24archivistheh...not the sort of thing I visit or sign up for :)
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13:33.25starseeker``Erik: Linux may suck, but we have drivers :-P
13:34.03starseekerlooks forward to Haiku becoming usable so he can again adopt a niche OS
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13:49.16``Erikhm, I have no gear that doesn't have bsd drivers, and scars from when linux did lack drivers for common equipment
13:49.32starseekerraises eyebrows.
13:49.39starseekerdo the nvidia drivers work well now?
13:49.40``Erikd-lo: late
13:49.43``Erikyes
13:49.53``Erikfor the last 5 or so years
13:50.23starseeker``Erik: wow.  Guess it has been a while since I did comparative operating system testing
13:51.00``ErikI think I did manage to force a release a few years back to support a chipset... the code was all their but the driver lagged with its listing, so it refused to try to use an 'known' pci id
13:51.23archivistnvidia dont work well with a realtime kernel though
13:51.28``Erikso I sent a message that, uh, kinda insinuated need from my work address (at the time, I was developing ogl code)
13:51.55``Erikcareful, archivist, someone will state that the NT series is a realtime kernel :D
13:52.10starseekerheh :-)
13:53.29``Erikstarseeker: I was happily running linux games (rtcw, ut) on my fbsd box with an nvidia card before I moved to md in '03
13:54.37``ErikI think the drivers came out in '01
13:55.26starseekerremembers the original fuss about subpar support on *BSD - guess by the time things settled down I had stopped operating system hopping
13:55.39``Erikit lags, but it's there, kinda
13:57.19``Erikhttps://sourceforge.net/projects/fbsd-nvdriver/  <-- shortly after that, they had a driver for fbsd
13:58.22``Erikstupid effin' linux
13:59.44``Erikioctl(fd,code,...)   hm, ioctl(fd,in,out,len) geeeee, { out = in; } /* DONE! */
13:59.48``Erikshakes fist
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15:49.56``Eriky'know, I need to make smaller portions when I stir-fry... about half of what I do (or invite a fool over)
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16:02.44d-loso ``Erik , taking today off?
16:03.27``Erikyesterday was al expecting dude to show up... today, dude called off again but I felt like poop, so SL, hopefully tomorrow will be AL for house repair
16:03.49``Erikcheck out "polly scattergood"
16:04.02d-lodude as in Cable repair dude?
16:04.04``ErikI think she's gonna make waves in the next year
16:04.13``Erikno, house repair, the rotted out wood
16:04.29d-loah, the door frame?
16:04.36``Erikhe's gonna disassemble my houses face to get all the rotten wood out
16:04.42d-lowow.
16:04.51d-logood to do.  Not cheap?
16:05.09``Erikhis initial estimate is 375, he's retired and does this for fun
16:05.18``Erikeric edwards hooked us up
16:05.24d-lonice :)
16:05.26``Erikeric knows RRRVRONE
16:05.37d-loque?
16:05.51``Erikfor?
16:06.27d-loRRRVRONE = ?
16:06.30``Erikthe 'rrrvrone' is a family guy joke, 'cleaveland' style
16:08.01``Erikaaanyways, I was talkin' about goldfrapp a couple years ago, they just recently were spotting in commercials and stuff... good stuff... I think this polly girl is the next one
16:08.09``Erikin spite of her essex accent
16:08.37``Erikshould so be a label recruiter :
16:08.39``Erik:)
16:08.44d-lolol
16:08.54d-loits your calling.  Goferit.
16:09.24``Erikwell, check out her youtubes
16:10.04d-loProlly when I get home.  Kinda involved in werk right now :/
16:10.13``Erika very british face, but she does good tunes
16:11.28d-loAh, so she's the kind of female vocalist where you look at her face and not elsewhere?
16:11.39``Erikno, ... other way 'round
16:13.52``Eriknot uh, susan boyle, but ... up that alley
16:13.59d-loheh, you weren't kidding about the british face.
16:14.44``Erikat least the girl from goldfrapp was adolescent jack material
16:15.05``ErikI think this polly girl will make a mark, *shrug*
16:19.48d-loWell I will check out her vids at home.  Just hope she isn't a nother mute-and-watch chickie.
16:20.20``Erikheh, if you mute, just close the window
16:20.30``Erikhonest, she ain't pretty
16:21.10starseekerhmm, this sounds like it might be interesting:  http://www-hagen.informatik.uni-kl.de/~hijazi/Publications/gpuimpcsg-tr.pdf
16:21.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34417 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/concat.c: Modified ged_concat to not require a suffix/prefix. If one is not provided, it behaves as if / was specified.
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17:02.58brlcadwow, kudos to NX5 .. nice interface revamping
17:04.18starseekergoogles NX5
17:04.47starseekerah
17:04.52brlcadunigraphics
17:05.08starseekerwow
17:05.09brlcadthey (stupidly) renamed to 'NX' a while back
17:05.46starseekererm.  Throwing away a widely recognized brand name for "NX"??  that IS stupid
17:06.05brlcadone that is barely even searchable by itself
17:06.36starseekeragreed though - nice UI
17:06.44``Erikthowing away a widley recognized brand name for "AMCAC"??? that IS stupid
17:06.50``Erikthowing away a widley recognized brand name for "ARL"??? that IS stupid
17:07.06starseeker``Erik: ARL is the brand
17:07.22brlcadthat's actually not far from the look of the icons I had in mind
17:07.23starseekerwhat do you mean?
17:07.28brlcadhe meant BRL
17:07.31``Erikok, you can believe hat. I'll  keep working on BRL
17:07.32brlcadwas renamed to ARL
17:07.35``Erikno, I meant ARL
17:07.45starseekerOh, gotcha
17:07.49``ErikBRL was a widely recognized name, we changed to ARL
17:07.55brlcadthat's what I meant
17:08.03brlcadgo back to your embibbing
17:08.13``Erikreturns to lisp development
17:08.59starseekerthose icons look like they could be vector
17:09.09brlcadnice bright high-resolution icons, clean theme, crisp tabbing
17:09.40brlcadstill a little dead space but some basic concepts to be noted
17:10.12starseekeris puzzled by the virtually empty bar below the two rows of icons
17:10.18*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
17:10.34brlcadyeah, selection-sensitive options
17:10.41starseekerah
17:10.48brlcadnot the best organization for those
17:11.11brlcadphotoshop does the same thing but better because there aren't icons above, but similar concept
17:11.22starseekerperhaps appearing/disappearing transparent toolbars for selection sensitive would be an option?
17:11.32starseekers/toolbars/whatever
17:13.14brlcadwho is to say that theirs doesn't appear/disappear ;)
17:13.22brlcadstill clunky by the placement alone
17:14.02brlcadbigger issue is the buffet of probably somewhat randomly used buttons above it
17:14.19starseekerheh, true.  I was thinking along the lines of the toolbars on the edge in stellarium
17:14.26brlcadthe lesson to take from it, though, is nice vibrant icons ;)
17:14.42Ralithtakes notes
17:14.43starseekernods - yes, those are striking and easily viewed
17:14.59brlcadand fairly unambiguous
17:15.07starseekerif I'm not mistaken, those are all expressible as vector icons - great for resolution independence :-)
17:15.32brlcadi highly doubt they are vectors, but sure :)
17:15.37starseekerTHINKS QT supports that, but isn't sure...
17:16.01``Erikdislikes qt
17:16.03starseekerI know KDE was working towards it for their desktop icons at the very least, and I think it was across the board
17:16.04RalithI would be surprised if it didn't
17:19.25starseekerah, yeah - as of QT 4.2 they support svg icons
17:21.23starseekerlikes the idea of not having to shove lots of different resolution .png files into the repository :-)
17:29.29*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
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19:31.21brlcadaaalmost gets the new mirroring equations to work
19:32.44brlcadstarseeker: true
19:33.16starseekerwinces in sympath with brlcad - nothing as frustrating as "almost" working
19:33.18brlcadthough while unclean, it's *very* trivial to maintain image resource files
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19:33.37starseekertrue.  We will be doing it with Archer anyway, I guess
19:33.49starseekeror rather, are doing
19:33.52brlcadvector is of course better, but it 'can' be considerably more complicated
19:34.20starseekerto store, or to use?
19:34.25brlcadnot that you need to store multiple image files either, can always store just one and downsample as needed
19:34.28brlcadyes
19:34.33starseekerheh
19:34.40starseekerwas thinking they're harder to design...
19:34.58brlcadactually more on use, storing it is just a matter of yet another resource file
19:35.18brlcadstoring in memory can be more tricky, but that's akin to use
19:35.25starseekerah.
19:35.33starseekerwas hoping QT could take care of that...
19:36.03brlcadhopefully
19:36.06brlcadbut if not, meh
19:36.11starseekernods
19:36.20starseekerif not, simpler to go with images
19:36.22brlcadthat's not really a technical problem
19:36.26brlcadyeah
19:37.01starseekercan even create them as svg, generate images if needed, then "someday" convert to straight svg
19:37.14starseekerafter all our other problems go away
19:37.40brlcadanother potentially 'neat' idea would be for each 'icon' to be a tiny little .g scene :)
19:38.29brlcadeven better over svg since most of what we need to display isn't vector 2d, it's actually 3d.. so we could just make a 3d resource and display that instead
19:38.44brlcadwould need a little backend work to make it flexible though
19:38.53starseekerthat is an interesting idea
19:39.22starseekeryou're thinking to raytrace the .g scenes to generate the icons?
19:39.27brlcadno no
19:39.59brlcadshaded display geometry, just tiny to whatever size the icons are
19:40.03starseekerah
19:40.11brlcadi mean you could render them, but no need really
19:40.24starseekeronce we can do shaded displays :-)
19:40.27brlcadwhat it would require, though, is some good display support
19:40.33starseekerno kidding
19:40.40brlcadand probably annotations
19:40.44starseekerisn't sure if he has ever heard of such an approach to icons
19:40.49brlcadsince most of the icons require some form of annotative overlay
19:41.13starseekerblender did their whole interface on opengl IIRC, but I don't think their icons are mini blender scenes..
19:41.32starseekerprobably made in blender though, come to think of it...
19:41.44starseekerthat is a nifty idea
19:43.00starseekerprobably would be for "new interface mark 2" though - lot of things need to be working really well to pull that off
19:44.43brlcadI wouldn't put it in archer, but it's not that complicated at all really
19:45.19starseekeris wondering about the performance implications of so many tiny shaded scenes
19:45.45brlcadyou're making the scene, so it really can be just about anything -- e.g. bots so shaded display works, geometry for whatever annotations you want to display, etc .. text is the main stickler and something like ftgl solves that
19:46.42starseekertrue - I was thinking more along the lines of how the display management would cope with it
19:46.47brlcadthey're static scenes and don't even need to update each frame unless there are antialiased/transparent items in the icon
19:47.50brlcadit wouldn't be more than a few hundred polys per icon, likely less than 100 displayed at a time -- insignificant
19:48.11starseekerright, but wouldn't each icon be its own opengl context?
19:48.23brlcadand even if it were a problem, you grab it from the framebuffer and display static image until resizes
19:48.28starseekermaybe that isn't a problem...
19:48.31starseekerah
19:48.41brlcadno, just the one context
19:49.00starseekeroh, right - full screen context with elements within it
19:49.09starseekerduh
20:04.37brlcadheh, cool
20:06.17brlcadit's now actually more efficient (space-wise) to store a sphere as a pnt primitive
20:06.31starseekerheh :-)
20:06.36starseekerneat!
20:07.08brlcadwhen I put that optimization in for per-point radius values, that makes it actually only store series of 3+1 instead of sph's usual serialization which is same as tgc (12)
20:07.39brlcadeven with the pnt overhead (2 values), it's still less for a single sphere (6 values)
20:07.52starseekeris it worth reworking sph?
20:07.54brlcadhalf the storage :)
20:08.00starseekercool!
20:08.03brlcadno, just funny
20:08.30brlcadsph does it that way so it's compatible and interchangeable with an ell (said tgc earlier, meant ell)
20:08.43starseekerfigured ;-)
20:09.17brlcadand changing it would break db compatibility, so not really worth it
20:09.33starseekernods
20:09.38brlcadwould only matter if you had a lot of spheres.. and if you do, then you probably should be using a pnt anyways
20:09.51starseekerpoint :-P
20:10.27brlcadshakes his fist at this dotproduct
20:13.19brlcadahhh, it's bug in the *current* mirror command too
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20:43.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34418 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
20:43.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: mged inconsistently ignores signals. initially allows it to be backgrounded,
20:43.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: but then later will ignore them. may be related to some issue introduced with
20:43.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: bu_suspend_interrupts() and libged, but either way it's really annoying and
20:43.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: should be changed (ideally to allow them)
21:06.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34419 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c: Need to convert/scale points to local units before calling routines that expect local units.
21:07.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34420 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (move_arb_edge.c move_arb_face.c): Need to convert points from local to base units before using.
21:14.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34421 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ (Archer.tcl GeometryEditFrame.tcl): Provide better interaction when editing in Archer (i.e. update value panel and change the edit mode if the current edit class is not appropriate).
21:50.46*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-61.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
22:09.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34422 10/brlcad/trunk/include/vmath.h:
22:09.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: instead of referring to the 4th component of a plane_t as [3], refer to it as
22:09.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: [W] given it's effectively a homogeneous component for the normalized plane
22:09.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: equation vector. aside from that, code shouldn't be accessing the element by a
22:09.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: magic number regardless in case we want to change the implementation.
22:19.49starseekerwill be wanting one of these if he has a yard someday: http://www.friendlyrobotics.com/
22:21.06starseekerwith that and roomba, life starts to get good :-)
22:21.27starseekerespecially if you're a cat, apparently:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ-jv8g1YVI
22:38.38brlcadstarseeker: back to our earlier work (which we should pick up again sometime soon) since I just ran across it again, check out src/libbn/plane.c
22:38.51brlcadshould look pretty familiar
22:39.26starseekerah yes
22:39.35starseekerexcellent :-)
22:41.22starseekerhow robust are those?
22:42.00brlcadmost of them do exactly what we'd want, doing a given test and taking tolerance into account
22:42.15brlcada lot of line/point/plane tests, no curves
22:42.20starseekerexcellent.
22:42.26starseekeryeah, I was looking for curves ;-)
22:42.58brlcadso specialized, like finding the intersection of three unique planes
22:43.01brlcads/so/some/
22:43.35brlcador given three points, make a plane
22:43.41starseekernods
22:44.18starseekerI've been trying to figure out if there are any good reference books containing algorithms for curve/* intersections
22:50.42starseekerhmmm.  http://www.siggraph.org/s2009/sessions/courses/details/?type=course&id=6
22:56.42brlcadnot exactly what we were referring to earlier
22:56.51brlcadfully 3D user interfaces are a different beast altogether
22:57.13brlcadwhere you have windows and palletes and widgets floating around in space potentially
22:57.24starseekermmm
22:57.33Raliththat strikes me as confusing.
22:57.41starseekerI was hoping they might talk about interacting with 3D models
22:58.13starseekernuts - yeah, I'm not a big fan of 3D interfaces in that sense
23:00.04brlcadit still applies -- just depends what we're talking about
23:00.54brlcadfor example, I've had in mind to use something like radial menus around objects that are selected (or to at least have it as an option) .. that becomes rather effective only if set in the 3d scene with the object
23:01.19Ralithoo, that does sound neat
23:01.36Ralithvisually anyway; dunno if it'd be more usable than standard radial menus around the pointer.
23:03.14``Erikpie menus are a nifty idea, but I imagine most users wouldn't follow them well because they're so ingrained in the drop menu paradigm :(
23:03.16brlcadyeah, there's some work that has shown it 'can' be effective, but depends on a lot of things
23:03.53Raliththe work I saw depended on it being around the cursor, though
23:04.31Ralith'cuz then you get the ability to select any item with a very small constant amount of imprecise movement
23:04.49Ralithif it's not centered on the pointer, then I think you lose most of that advantage.
23:05.06``Erikyou also need to be away from a screen edge, and to break the users mentality
23:05.12``Erikbut it is a really neat idea
23:06.03brlcadthat's just a matter of view-dependent scaling of the menu in the scene (which you would have to have)
23:06.10brlcadso that you don't end up with precision issues
23:06.25``Erikwhat, the screen edge aspect?
23:06.43brlcad``Erik: fortunately, we don't give them any such option at the moment .. so no behavior that we're breaking on our part :)
23:06.59Ralithhehe
23:07.10``Erikif your user invokes right at the edge of the screen, do you draw a hemisphere? in a corner, just a quadrant?
23:07.30RalithI'd just have the thing appear a little bit offset.
23:07.34Ralithit's not got *that* large a radius.
23:07.36``Erikwell, effort to add a feature that "doesn't feel right" to 99% of users is probably ... wasted
23:07.54``Erikand if your pie expansion is towards the corner?
23:08.00brlcadtechnically, displaying the vertices in the 3D scene when an object being edited is a form of a 3D gui, particularly when you then allow vertices/objects/points to be selected and edited in the scene directly
23:08.09Raliththen that's a problem, I guess.  You'd have to move everything.
23:08.12``Erikmoving hte menu out from under the user seems... almost criminal to me
23:08.23Ralithindeed.
23:08.41Ralithalthough...
23:08.58Ralithit might not be completely unreasonable to just swap the new menu in place of the old one, in general
23:09.10``Eriktechnically, we don't support 3d gui yet... every "3d" thing any of us deal with are compressed into 2d for display.. :) (unless you do stereoscopics or a cave or something)
23:09.11Ralithkind of like GUI file browsers moved from new windowing all the time to just changing dir in the current window
23:09.48``Erikralith: most make that selectable, some have a number of approaches
23:09.55RalithI think the effort of learning a CAD tool of any kind is enough that we're justified in being creative with GUI work, and possibly doing uncommon things.
23:10.10brlcadif the gui is in the scene, it's in the scene and is a normal "out of view" problem if an object is near the edge
23:10.23``ErikI think the default mac 'finder' settings are abysmal, but still better than the default winderz explorer
23:10.24Ralithsince, ultimately, any unfamiliarity induced by such will be less than the challenge posed by learning the fundementals of the system.
23:10.46brlcadi.e. the menu is displayed and they can't see it all because of where the object is, just like that control point they can't click because it's too close to a menu or the edge of a context or whatever
23:10.57``Erikaint' sayin' it ain't a good idea, just playing devils advocate and looking for corner cases
23:11.04brlcadit's also not to say that it'd be the *only* method available
23:11.28brlcadthere are a couple really good 'proof of concepts' out there that are remarkable
23:11.45``Erikyeah, but they tend to be cotton candy examples, y'know?
23:11.59``Erikif they're the couple that I was looking at around '00 or '01
23:12.05``Erikwhen the papers came out
23:13.39``ErikI was looking at coding video game stuff at the time (so there's a lot of leeway in breaking user convention), I d'no, it seemed like a paper idea to me when talking serious production *shrug*
23:13.52brlcadthese were working prototypes, don't have the link atm though
23:14.17brlcadhere's an example that's not as impressive, but at least related and functional: http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2007/225/942784_20070814_screen004.jpg
23:14.28``Erikbut I'm old, bitter and cynical... I like zui as a notion, but it'd take a ground shaking 'killer app' to move it from a geek curiousity to a real thing
23:14.51``Erikah, I hadn't seen that image before
23:15.12``Erikthe examples I saw made a bit point of concentric rings
23:15.36brlcadyeah, something like http://stevejbayer.com/files/images/2%20level%20Radial%20Menu.jpg
23:16.05``Erikyes
23:16.23``Erikthe downside is what does that picture MEAN? to a cold user, wtf?
23:16.42``Erikthe video game picture, I think I understand... two of those images
23:16.55brlcada variant of the radial is simply two horizontal menus and two vertical menus
23:17.10``ErikI assume the wrench means "repair this unit" and the dollar sign means something about expenses... the rest... I d'no
23:17.25brlcadlike I said, not as impressive -- the icons are not exactly intuitive outside the domain
23:17.36brlcadbut then so are most of the icons in a CAD app to an outsider
23:17.37``Erikbut video games are lenient :)
23:17.45``Erik*ponder*
23:17.51``Erikbrainfart time
23:17.58``Erikimagine instead of a full circle of images
23:17.58Ralithtooltips come into their own here, too.
23:18.08Ralithor an equivalent.
23:18.21``Erikralith, if I have to mouseover something to understand what it is, the hci guys failed.
23:18.33Ralithyou only have to mouseover it *once* though
23:18.51``Erikok, imagine two quarter-circles, centered on each side, with the functional text drifting off against it
23:19.05``Erikuh, ralith, if I have to memorize from a mouseover, your hci has failed :D
23:19.09Ralith:[
23:19.28Ralithlarge menu options w/ text instead of icons?
23:19.32Ralithwhich is what you seem to be suggesting.
23:19.50Ralithas brlcad says, I don't think you can do much about icons being unintuitive.
23:20.16``Erikno, I suggest an amber screen with a cable bundle to a server :D
23:20.51``Erikwhat's the infamous usenet quote? the only intuitive interface is the nipple?
23:20.57brlcadideally, there's as little menu, buttons, and widgets as possible, the less the better is generally the case for usability (i.e., if it looks like something you should be able to do, then you should be able to do it.. lots of direct manipulation)
23:21.31``Erikso when you design a gui, it's a balance between making things clean for a knowledgable superuser and accessable to a newbie
23:21.43brlcadit's more a matter of context management so that there's as little conflict of options as possible, without resorting to all-out modalities
23:21.49``ErikI hate to say it, but the microsoft 'faded menu' approach appeals to the ugly truth fairly well
23:22.08``Erikimho
23:24.02brlcadRalith: that's why a lot of what you're doing is more leaning towards the work that's gone into IEO since that's a lot more about context management
23:24.43``Erikaaaanyways, coders tend to look for glitzy 'neat' solutions that just make the mere mortal experience more difficult, I'm just trying to be 'that guy' to pull folk back to ground :)
23:24.44brlcadand not so much the 3D scene interaction
23:26.00Ralithbut the glitzy neat solutions are glitzy and neat!
23:26.22``Erikhehehehe precisely! I'm glad you understand!
23:26.24``Erik:D
23:28.00``Erikmy mother works for a bank, she just recently got approval to work from home... before that, she sat in an aeron chair, running XP... filled her screen with putty and ran a curses(or equivelant) program on a dusty as/400
23:28.01brlcadwould rather focus on trying to figure out how to make things work or implementing prototypes rather than spending time trying to navel gaze on all the possible ways that something might go wrong or be implemented poorly :)
23:28.22``Erikthere's glitzy neat stuff, and then there's stuff people use to get the job done :)
23:28.44``Erik*point* yes, no glitz, get something working :
23:28.45``Erik:D
23:29.09brlcad"glitz" can often tie in almost directly to usability
23:29.11``Erikwants the modelers to tell him what frustrates them the most :(
23:29.20brlcaddepends entirely what you mean by glitz
23:30.12brlcadbecause very often, what many call glitz in some interfaces is actually HCI hinting, which can be very effective for shifting locus of attention
23:30.19``Erikhm, yeah, I don't think there's a hard definition, I think I consider it to be eye candy that is not necessary to efficiently accomplish the task
23:30.43``Erikwhen the gui inhibits the use, then it's just glitz
23:30.46``Erik:)
23:30.59brlcade.g., the "genie minimize" or "scale minimize" in mac os x .. on the surface is purely 'glitz', a shiny effect .. but it's not
23:31.07brlcadit actually shows you where the window went
23:31.09brlcadvery effective
23:31.12brlcadand looks cool to boot
23:31.53brlcadif you need to restore that working context, you were told exactly where it went, or at least the direction it went
23:31.58``Erik<-- uses genie
23:32.51brlcadis it "necessary", absolutely not -- is it useful, very much so in combination with many other usability hints that are going on simultaneously
23:33.01``ErikI've seen a lot of instances where code was developed to look cool, but the users felt it made things more difficult to use.. THAT is what I want to cut off
23:33.15brlcadwell complain about that when you see it :)
23:33.32``Erikand it's the user that matters, not the chapter about hinting in the hci book :D
23:33.48brlcadotherwise, it's just contemplating all the possible horrible ways things could go fantastically wrong
23:34.10brlcadwhich isn't productive :P
23:34.15``ErikI called in sick today, I'm allowed to be the peanut gallery, damnit
23:34.17``Erik:D
23:34.35Ralithhehe
23:34.38starseekernot to mention I'll accidently stumble into at least 10 of the worst UI mistakes anyway, regardless
23:34.48starseekerso don't worry about it ;-)
23:35.14starseekerwe'll just be ready to correct mistakes
23:35.37``Erikpie menus are neat, I bet if you cut off the top and bottom quarters and put text next to the items (context based), it'd be more usable to a newbie
23:36.29brlcadthat's the variant I mentioned that is basically two vertical and two horizontal menus
23:36.32starseekerremembers when he was learning Tribes, there were interactive tutorials that went through the uses and meanings of the various options
23:36.50starseekerwas actually fairly effective
23:37.12``Erikbrlcad: ss?
23:37.36brlcadmore radical hierarchical example: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/39/76817786_0cbe787afa_o_d.png   (not a fan, but interesting nonetheless)
23:37.47brlcadss?
23:37.49starseekerwe could convert the cup tutorial steps into an in-gui step-by-step...
23:37.57brlcadthe cup sucks
23:37.58brlcadit's boring
23:37.59``Erikstarseeker: yes, but video games are a special turf, like I mentioned earlier... that ti's challenging to operate is often considered a boon, unlike other apps
23:38.05``Erikss == screenshot
23:38.10starseekerwell, something more interesting than the cup then
23:38.11brlcadah, don't have one
23:38.28brlcadat least not on hand at the moment, there are some examples stashed away in my data archive
23:38.38``Erikhm, that's an interesting image, but not what I mean
23:38.50brlcadI know, it was unrelated
23:38.55brlcadjust another example
23:39.02``Eriktell ya what, on thursday or friday, I can draw on my whiteboard, or gimp one up
23:39.04archivistthat was fugly
23:39.04starseekerthat is radical
23:40.06starseekeris a traditionalist in some ways - he likes what stellarium does with the toolbars hidden at the edges
23:40.27``Eriktell ya what, man, amber crt, vt102, ...
23:40.42starseekerisn't THAT much of a traditionalist...
23:40.58brlcadthat's what command-mode is for, part why it's first and fundamental ;)
23:41.11brlcadcommand mode is pervasively available
23:41.13``Erikwhen the library bought wyse terminals to place next to the card catalog, that was hot shit
23:41.38``Erikuhmmmmmmmm, lee had a question about the tcl command prompt in BRL-CAD on friday, did he get to you on that?
23:41.44starseekerwell sure - if it's all you've got, vacuum tubes are the bomb
23:42.00starseekerto me? don't think so
23:42.01starseekerwhat was it?
23:42.06``Erikto brlcad
23:42.09starseekeroh
23:42.18``Eriks/^/brlcad: /
23:42.19``Erik:)
23:42.29brlcadwhat's interesting about a (well-designed) radial menu is that they're measurably more efficient than a linear menu due to directionality, spatial memorization, and distance travelled (fitts) so long as the menu stays small (and isn't a decision tree)
23:42.54brlcad``Erik: think he did .. at least I talked to him friday and solved some problem for him
23:43.02brlcaddon't remember what it was atm though
23:43.15``Erik'k, he was looking for some command to find something in a .g file and I didn' have an answer for him
23:43.16brlcadah, catching a db get
23:43.25brlcadyeah
23:43.33``Erik<-- doesn't do the tcl side
23:43.33brlcadproblem solved
23:43.37``Erikaight, good
23:44.14``Eriky'know, I'm struck by differences in utilization of "world of warcraft" between me and redvsblue
23:45.12``ErikI use addons to place icons in the fitts positions and pack my keyboard full of immediate commands, she likes to use the mouse for everything and doesn't have any command object in any corner or edge
23:45.47starseeker``Erik: spoken like a true vim user :-)
23:45.47``Erik(doesn't even run the program full screen)
23:46.02brlcadit was pretty simple -- if you do a "db get_type foo" in a db, it'll either tell you "foo"'s type if it found that object or return an error
23:46.20brlcadhe was making a new user command and wanted to supress that error
23:46.30``ErikI use both vim and emacs these days... and netbeans on occasion :) I like to imagine that I strive to be task oriented instead of tool oriented
23:46.33brlcadwhich is done by simply wrapping the command in a catch statement
23:46.43brlcadcatch {db get_type foo}
23:46.53brlcadwill return 0 or 1 on success/failure
23:46.57``Erikok, lee asked me and I immediately threw my hands up and said "ain't my turf"
23:47.07brlcadwell now ya know ;)
23:47.11brlcadcan catch most commands
23:47.16``ErikI've already forgotten :D
23:47.38``Erikwhen we get python and lisp wired in right, mebbe I'll pay more attention O:-)
23:48.06brlcadhas little to do with tcl
23:48.24``Erikif I had to write a mod for one of my eggdrop bots, I'd probably rewrite the bot in C to avoid being in the neighborhood of tcl
23:48.42brlcadin any arg-style command language it'd be nearly the same
23:48.57``ErikI assume the tcl 'catch' is modelled after the 'error/catch' facility found in, uhhhh, lisp, snobol, etc?
23:49.09brlcadpretty much
23:49.10``Erikum, like an exception?
23:49.15``Erikin c++/jabba?
23:49.18brlcadsorta
23:49.23brlcadlittle more basic than exceptions
23:49.32brlcadjust captures the result in a variable
23:49.34``Erikoh, so it doesn't grok heirarchy
23:49.42``Erikjust a push/jmp/pop
23:50.08brlcadakin to something like:  foo="`cat asdf 2>&1`" ; echo $?
23:50.17brlcadif this were posix shell interp
23:50.24``Erik*nod* push/jmp/pop :)
23:50.28brlcadcatch {cat asdf} foo
23:53.27``Erikralith == ben?
23:54.10``Erikis looking at gsoc crap
23:54.20madant_:)
23:55.02``Erikya'll with your weirdassed handles
23:55.18``ErikHi, my name is Erik, my handle is Erik, if you want to connect the dots, it's Erik.
23:55.21``Erik:D
23:55.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34423 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (28 files in 17 dirs): universally use [W] instead of directly accessing plane_t's distance factor at index [3]. it's a homogeneous scaling factor.
23:58.08``Erikw00t, :g/\[3\]/[W]/g ftw
23:58.16brlcadheh, not quite
23:58.41``Erikis 'w' understandable in all those contexts, or commented if not? :D
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090506

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090506

00:00.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34424 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (Makefile.am primitives/tor/tor_mirror.c):
00:00.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: break out a tor_mirror() routine using the logic nearly identical to what is
00:00.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: happening now in rt_mirror() with the exception of using a plane_t instead of
00:00.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: pt+dir (so we still reconstruct pt+dir for now). first step towards a new
00:00.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: primitive rt_###_mirror() callback on all primitives that takes an
00:00.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: rt_db_internal and a plane to mirror across.
00:00.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34425 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/table.c: declare this new rt_##name##_mirror() interface for all primitives
00:00.59``Eriksits up
00:01.03*** join/#brlcad madant (n=d@117.196.130.106)
00:01.12``Erikthat's C macro abuse that I thought only I did
00:01.14``Erik:D
00:01.25poolioargh. My external HD died and I fail at keeping two backups D:
00:03.14``Erikhey, brlcad, if I buy you a tb sata drive, will they shove it in your server?
00:04.33brlcadlast time I asked them, they said no but that was over a year ago
00:04.49brlcadthey sell them at like 4x markup :)
00:05.06``Erikheh, but you're colo, not service
00:05.23``Erikyou actually own the piece of hardware in their rack, right?
00:06.33``Erik*shrug*
00:07.18``Erik400 for a tb on a remote server... hrm, and I imagine they're not keen on 'dilbert' style disk packs?
00:07.32``Erikuh, sun d100 packages
00:08.04``Erikexternal disk packs
00:16.05CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34426 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_rt_isect.c: massive cleanup, ws, style, indent, dead code
00:30.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34427 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/patch/patch-g.c: massive cleanup, ws, style, indent, dead code, missing semicolons on macros
00:34.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34428 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/bigE.c: missing a few semis on macros, clean up comment wraps
00:38.29brlcadanother relevant example that's a working radial extension for fireforx (and is mildly interesting, but still suboptimal in many regards)
00:38.44brlcadcertainly more developed to production and customizability at least though
00:40.13brlcadand specifically relevant: http://www.qtsoftware.com/products/appdev/add-on-products/catalog/3/Widgets/qtpiemenu
00:40.37brlcador http://doc.trolltech.com/qq/qq11-piemenu.html
00:42.09brlcadand more boringly, how maya puts them to use: http://hci.deri.ie/%7Eksamp/pie.png
00:47.31``Erikhm, what about taskfox?
00:47.43``Erikany opinion on that endeavor?
00:49.07``Erikthe qt ones look decent, the maya one looks bad
01:07.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34429 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/plane.c: ws, style consistency, and major comment cleanup
01:09.04brlcadmaya's is surprisingly effective, having used it -- it basically eliminates the first level of a right-click context menu showing you the most common right there, then drops down menus for those subactions
01:09.14brlcadjust looks like hell, but probably the most used outside of gaming
01:10.30brlcadtaskfox is a different beast altogether -- it's fantastic stuff and already part of IEO
01:11.43brlcadit's basically an application-specific version of 'quicksilver' for mac os x, I think they were the first to "make it look good"
01:14.08brlcadif ralith got nothing more than the launcher working for registered commands with the look n' feel cleaned up, keybindings working, overlay working, shortcuts working, and gui conversion .. that's be .. impressive :)
02:56.54*** join/#brlcad mike (n=mike@cadil21.kaist.ac.kr)
02:58.01Mike111hi all
02:59.54madanthi Mike111
03:00.13Mike111hi madant
03:01.41Mike111I am unable to install 7.14.6 on Debian Lenny, P6 (32bit). Sean advised to use this channel for help.
04:59.59brlcadMike111: thanks for stopping by -- best suggestion at this point is to try a clean build step-by-step and we can then make changes from a known state
05:00.23brlcadstart by checking out the SVN sources, run this:
05:00.26brlcad~cadsvn
05:00.26ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
05:01.09brlcadafter that, run:  sh autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-all && make
05:01.30brlcadthen if we hit the link error again, we can try some edits
05:01.30Mike111thanks, brlcad
05:02.46Mike111I'm unable to this now, maybe in an hour. How long will you be here?
05:02.47brlcadsave a transcript of your console to a file using your terminal's history or via the 'script' command
05:02.58madantwe are always here :)
05:03.28Mike111great. Speak soon.
05:03.30brlcadsomeone is always here and even if nobody responds, you can post your status/question/nextstep/etc and someone eventually will
05:04.05brlcadlike how I just answered you two hours after your statement -- you just stay idle and wait
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07:40.26mafmhi
07:47.10pacman87good morning
07:48.24pacman87is currently in the middle of coding tetris in assembly for the 6811
07:50.26pacman87anyone know a good way to fit a capital N into a 3x5 pixel font?
07:50.59archivist3x5!!! too small
07:51.19pacman87it's for a LCD display with a rather large pixel pitch
07:51.26archivist5x7 is bad enough
07:51.39pacman87i only have so much room
07:51.46pacman87128x64 pixels
07:52.23pacman87my N is currently all 5, middle 3, all 5 for the columns
07:53.48archivistI spent many hours making charsets 20 years ago
07:54.19pacman87i don't really like my K either
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11:48.51``Erik6811, awesome, I did some asm and hw work on 6811 and 6812 back in college :)
11:49.11``Erik8x8 is the true character space :( pheer c64
11:49.37pacman87i've got a 6811 and a 6812 sitting on my desk atm
11:49.45``Erikum, looking up screenshots of old atari and nintendo games might help with figuring out fonts?
11:49.59pacman87program the 6811 EEPROM through the 6812
11:50.06``Erikheheh
11:50.30``Erikwe had a grab bag of 6811's in my 'digital logic' class, but hte books were all for 6812
11:50.38``Erikso we kept finding the minor gotchas
11:51.21``Eriknice enough chip, reminded my of my 6502 hacking days :)
11:52.28``Erikbrlcad: the maya ss makes me think that position and layout is irregular... like it flies the flag to memorization and muscle memory
12:03.52archivistdid a report 6800 v 6502 v 6502 for some maths, 2 meg 6502 won :)
12:04.14archivistone of those should be Z80
12:04.58archivistZ80 wastes so much time shuffling via the A reg
12:08.48d-lobrlcad: 'Practical Subversion' book... you trying to say sumthin?! =D
12:17.26brlcadd-lo: nope, you were just talking about getting to it soon -- didn't know if you knew that I had that
12:17.29brlcadit covers the libs
12:17.47d-loI figured, just j/k 'round.
12:18.01d-lostarted paging through it since it was on my desk.
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12:58.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34430 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/mirror.c: begin migration towards using the rt_*_mirror() interface, setting up the mirror plane equation needed by the primitive. stubbed in for the moment until a bug is fixed (likely introduced during r34263 refactoring)
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13:58.02d-lobrlcad:  Build looks like it is failing on mirror.c
13:58.50d-lo-> " *** No rule to make target `mirror.c', needed by `mirror.lo'.  Stop. "
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14:15.42``Erikmake distclean might be the lynchpin for  ya
14:18.42brlcadyeah, you've not updated in a while (tsk tsk)
14:26.02``Erikheh
14:42.55d-loit was building fine *till* i updated :P
14:46.35d-loand I update daily thankyouveddymuch!
14:50.06d-lo``Erik: Is the dude fixn yer house?
14:51.13d-lomake distclean ftw.
14:52.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34431 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: I apparently broke mirroring a few days ago while refactoring, must fix before release.
14:55.00brlcadhm, that doesn't sound right -- mirror.c was moved on 2009-04-13
14:55.16brlcadprobably just didn't rebuild librt since then
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17:58.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34432 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: thought this was already the case, but maybe not.. the dbconcat/concat command no longer requires an affix, allowing it to default to behave as if '/' was specified if no prefix/suffix is provided.
18:05.09starseekerah - there they are.  Open Inventor input routines appear to be in SoInput and SoDB
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19:15.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34433 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/scale_ell.c:
19:15.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: add comments about how scale_ell seems to be a bad direction to go in as it's
19:15.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: specific to a primitive's internal structure (no command should need to know the
19:15.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: internal structure of any primitive) and specific to a scaling operation. all
19:15.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: objects already define a matrix transformation callback that implements this
19:15.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: same logic.
19:21.53d-loRalith:  How goes the GUI?  Done yet?
19:22.01brlcadhehe
20:29.16``Erikwow, I can't believe how bad this movie is :( "big trouble in little china"
20:29.26``ErikI thought this was cool in the 80's
20:31.44brlcadit was cool .. in the 80's
20:31.56brlcadso were mc hammer pants
20:32.22brlcadshuffles off sideways saying "you can't touch this!"
20:33.00``Erikhahaha
20:33.17``Erikshut up, I had parachute pants in the 80's
20:33.18``Erik:D
20:33.47``Erikit was a... special time
20:35.00``Erikhonestly cannot see brlcad doing that irl, thinks he's too meek O.o
20:35.34brlcadi actually used to be able to (somewhat, albeit still geekishly), but yeah .. probably not :)
20:35.57``Erikhave you done iphone dev?
20:36.41brlcadread through much of the docs, have/had the account, and written up some code for it
20:36.54brlcadbut nothing noteworthy, just checking it out
20:37.27``ErikI talked to a friend last night who's an ueber coordinator, he has assembled a crew to write a game and is trying to pin me down as the code monkey, I'm under the impression that it's a pretty simple cocoa/objc dealie, just lookin' for confirmation (or gotchas)
20:38.07brlcadwow.. lotus extrema does 0->60 in 2.8s
20:38.24``Erikow, is that electric?
20:38.48``Erikm3 does 0-20000 real fast ;) *Duck*
20:38.55``Erik$20,000 that is
20:38.59brlcadnope, just put a beast engine in
20:39.08brlcadhttp://www.teamspeed.com/forums/lotus/17242-uk-garage-presents-lotus-extrema.html
20:39.19``Erikyou're using what, a 220 hp toyota 4cyl?
20:39.42``Erikno, 190hp? euro spec is 130hp?
20:39.55brlcadaround 190 iirc
20:40.13``Erikna?
20:41.01``Erikok... white boy shoots gun striaght up, bad "pew pew" sound effects, rock comes down and knocks him out.... effin' retarded
20:41.12``Erik<-- tries not to do the mc hammer shuffle
20:41.59``Erik(that they can fit a 'vettes v8 "up-rated" engine in an elise is disturbing)
20:43.36``Erikonly $100k, though
20:44.09brlcadyeah, that had to be a feat in itself
20:45.55``Erikthere was, iirc, a camaro model that could do 0-60 in 2.8
20:46.06``Erikwas pushing over 1k bhp on the flywheel, though
20:46.35``Erikthat low end performance screams electric to me :)
20:58.44*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@77-58-243-168.dclient.hispeed.ch)
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21:51.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34434 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS:
21:51.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: finally was able to reproduce john's error message about tab-completion giving a
21:51.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: bind error. seems as though it only sometimes happens, even for -c mode,
21:51.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: depending on whether the currently running mged finds tcl resources? either
21:51.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: way, it does exist... :)
22:54.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34435 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: Hmm - Sean spotted where nirt doesn't parse the -e option very well in MGED - space between -e and quote character fails
22:57.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34436 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/librt/primitives/pipe/pipe.c): Fix bug where raytracing of pipe was crashing if duplicate hit points showed up - incorrect decrementing of *nh was the problem.
22:57.44starseekerdoes little happy dance
23:01.59Ralithd-lo: well, it was, but then I decided to rewrite it in FORTRAN
23:09.15``Eriknot cobol?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090507

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090507

00:02.09*** join/#brlcad madant_ (n=d@117.196.130.205)
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03:15.34brlcadstarseeker: hehe, cool
03:42.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34437 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pipe/pipe.c: ws indent style cleanup plus consistently wrap all of the (*nh) to be encased consistently in wraps.
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05:24.25elena~log
05:24.26ibotmethinks log is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23wowhead/
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11:30.32d-lobrlcad & ``Erik:  something as small as that lotus, doing 0-120mph in 7 seconds, is frightening to say the least...
11:31.25d-loRalith: FORTRAN is good, just make sure the GUI is scriptable with VBA.
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11:48.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34438 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/Makefile.am: fixing step-g build
12:25.09brlcadnotes that apparently broke the build (possibly just distcheck)
12:30.05d-lobrlcad: are you talking about r34438?
12:30.55brlcadyep
12:31.46brlcadcan you take a look, https://pawl.arl.army.mil/cruisecontrol/builds/brlcad-trunk/34438
12:32.30brlcadshould be able to expand the log, get details at the bottom
12:33.59d-lo...the only thing I see is a warning.  No errors.  Additionally, is it a bad sign that it builds fine on my machine? ;)
12:34.44brlcadwhat's the warning?
12:35.01d-lo"config.status: WARNING: Makefile.in seems to ignore the --datarootdir setting "
12:35.10brlcadit's not a bad sign, you're not testing nearly as much as the regression test is
12:35.58brlcadcould be a cruisecontrol hiccup -- look at the latest log (take off /34438 from the url)
12:36.15brlcadlooks like it may have been interrupted and restarted as there is a .1
12:37.46brlcadbuild is fine here too, so it could be a false positive .. the full tests take a half hour though so won't know for a bit
12:38.02d-lostrange.  I am no expert (duh) but it lookes like once the ./configure is complete, it fires off a distclean and then stops in the middle of it.
12:39.11brlcadehm, are you looking at the full log?
12:40.04d-lostrangeness.  interweb hiccup.  F5 for the win.
12:41.38d-lois the regression testing using Automake v1.10 on purpose?  Seems a bit old.
12:42.48brlcadno, it's just using the system default
12:42.50brlcad1.10 is fine
12:43.06brlcadin fact, ours should even work all the way through 1.6
12:43.27brlcadautogen has version validation checks
12:43.36d-lowell this machine has 1.9.6 installed and it seems to be working just fine.
12:44.13brlcadeh
12:44.15brlcadmissing something
12:44.20brlcadwhat did the cc log say?
12:44.46brlcadit's what's saying it failed, that's all that really matters to check
12:45.17brlcadrepost it to pastebin
12:47.28d-lohttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m1ed56600
12:48.15brlcadmake[3]: ../../../src/other/step/src/fedex_plus/fedex_plus: Command not found
12:48.28brlcadthats the error
12:48.35d-loright, I figured :)
12:50.33brlcadtrying to build the fedex sources, yours probably skips that build rule on a regular build, but those sources are needed for a distcheck
12:51.03brlcads/probably skips/is skipping/
12:54.06brlcadhe needs to try a distcheck
12:54.39d-loto be clear:  make distcheck should recreate the same error that cc is reporting?
12:55.22brlcadI believe so, think the problem is just that built_sources is in extra_dist
12:56.18brlcadah, he added them to SOURCES, so yeah that means they need to be in the dist
13:00.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34439 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/Makefile.am: annotate three FIXME's in this file that should help with the distchecking and build cleanup
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13:45.13CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34440 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/src/librt/primitives/pipe/pipe.c: Add the key pipe fix to stable - looks like trunk has some of the ifree tweaks in it so wait for a proper merge to sync pipe.c with the trunk pipe.c
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13:58.40mafmhi
14:17.05phyTurtleHi, I'm a newcomer of using brlcad
14:17.28elenahi
14:17.45phyTurtlenowadays, I'm learning using brlcad following tutorial.
14:18.54phyTurtleAlso, I read some source code to see what I can contribute to code.
14:19.54phyTurtleHowever, I couldn't where I can start.
14:20.21elenayou could try to fix a small bug
14:20.37phyTurtleSo, dose anybody tell me a starring point?
14:20.44phyTurtlebugs?
14:21.03elenaif you want to contribute.
14:21.22elenaif you want to learn how to use it, the tutorial is a great place to start.
14:21.55phyTurtlethen how about learing the mechanism of the program?
14:22.18phyTurtleis bug fixing still good way to learing it?
14:22.35elenaI can't answer that.
14:22.47elenabut I guess it depends on you.
14:23.12elenado you feel you're learning by tracking bugs.
14:23.14elena?
14:23.53phyTurtlewell....
14:24.02``Erikthere're ~400 executables, many libraries... it's a big package, you'd have to figure out which part you're interested in before really jumping in... :)
14:24.03phyTurtleYes.. Many times..
14:24.31phyTurtleActually, I am a physicist.
14:24.43elenawaves ``Erik
14:24.44phyTurtleSo, I'm not good at programming..
14:24.50starseekerhowdy elena
14:24.51``Erik*wave*
14:24.57elenahi starseeker.
14:25.15``Erikc'mon, starseeker, stand up and sit down, we're doing the wave here :D
14:25.25elenathan jumping right to bugs might not be a good idea.
14:25.31elenathan => then
14:25.44starseekercrushes chairs doing that
14:25.46phyTurtlehmm..
14:26.32elenadid you managed to checkout and build brlcad?
14:27.08elenabtw, fyi, i'm a brlcad user, not programmer.
14:27.54phyTurtlesorry, pardon? I can't follow you.. what is fyi?
14:28.03``Erik"for your information"
14:28.05elenafor your information
14:29.02elenabtw = by the way.
14:30.54phyTurtledo you mean that  I installed on my system with source code?
14:31.06elenayes.
14:31.09phyTurtleyes
14:31.20elenawhat's your system, btw. just curious.
14:31.25phyTurtleI used source code and built on my linux system
14:31.31phyTurtleubuntu 8.04
14:31.39elenaok. that's a good start.
14:31.51phyTurtlethanks
14:32.03starseekerphyTurtle: what are your interests?  CAD is a big field, do you have specific subject areas in mind?
14:32.09phyTurtleyes
14:32.23phyTurtleI am developing FDTD library
14:32.39brlcadhowdy phyTurtle
14:32.45brlcadand welcome!
14:32.54phyTurtleFinite Difference Time domain method which is a Electromagnetic simulation algorithm
14:32.55d-lohai phyTurtle!
14:33.03phyTurtlehello.
14:33.07d-loregular party up in here.
14:33.40starseekerphyTurtle: Is your interest to integrate that method with the physical geometry abilities of a CAD system?
14:33.51phyTurtleIn the FDTD Library, inserting structure is horrible task.
14:34.14phyTurtleespecially 3D structure simulation.
14:34.49phyTurtleSo I seek some software which could modle solid structure
14:35.07phyTurtlemodle->model
14:35.09starseekerwhat sort of structural information do you need for a FDTD analysis?  surfaces, volumes, triangles...
14:35.39phyTurtleJust the info of mesh point
14:36.07starseekerok, so the geometry problem is merging meshes?
14:36.09phyTurtleFDTD use rectangular mesh to model electric field and magnetic field
14:36.13phyTurtleyes
14:36.16brlcadphyTurtle: are you at all interested in data processing (like wavelets, FFTs, etc) or mostly modeling and/or geometry?
14:36.27phyTurtlemostly geometry
14:37.00phyTurtleI need info of points which intersect with solid objects
14:37.03brlcadcool, then a great starting point (on the programming side) is our procedural modeling facilities
14:37.14brlcadmaybe starting out with a little program that "makes something"
14:37.23phyTurtleok..
14:37.34brlcadthere are lots of examples to get you started, but that's one area that's pretty well defined and easy to get into
14:37.56phyTurtlewell I have found that 'NIRT' do the task I need
14:38.16brlcadare you specifically interested in programming or are you looking for how you can "get things done" for whatever your end goals are?
14:38.31brlcadlike the difference between writing an app or writing a script that does the same thing
14:38.46phyTurtleWell shot goal is find the points which intersect the objedts..
14:39.12brlcadscripting nirt is a great way to sample geometry, get in/out hit points along a given line as it intersects geometry
14:39.20phyTurtleand the great goal is joining the brlcad programming..
14:39.26brlcad:)
14:39.41brlcadbut then to shoot nirt .. you need to have geometry to shoot at
14:39.44brlcadwhat is your data now?
14:39.59brlcadin your head?  design specs?  models in other cad formats?
14:39.59starseekerwait... do you have pre-existing meshes you need to intersect rays with, or do you actually need to merge two distinct meshes into a single mesh?
14:41.29phyTurtlemy plan is using brlcad, modelling simulation structure first
14:42.11phyTurtlesecond, defining mesh (ray) which I want know intersection points
14:42.36phyTurtlethird, saving intersecting points for each mesh grid.
14:42.59brlcadso you have some running simulation code, then, and from that simulation you already have geometry or you will need to derive geometry?
14:43.19phyTurtlebrfore the simulation.
14:43.49phyTurtleI should define the geometry.
14:43.51brlcadso you're going to model something and put it into a simulation
14:43.54brlcadokay
14:43.56phyTurtleyes
14:44.08phyTurtleIt is not time running modeling.
14:45.18phyTurtleI just skimed the nirt tutorial.
14:45.19brlcadso some sort of way to represent an electric field and a magnetic field
14:45.43phyTurtlewell..
14:45.53phyTurtlefor example.
14:46.15phyTurtleI put the dielectric sphere ball in the space.
14:46.46phyTurtleand insert incident wave(initial condition)
14:47.14phyTurtlelater, by the dielectric sphere, electric field and magnetic field is changed.
14:47.25phyTurtleI need to model the dielectric sphere.
14:47.32phyTurtlenot the field info.
14:49.58phyTurtleSome of FDTD developer used AutoCad or ACIS to model the dielectric sphere.
14:50.24phyTurtleSo, I searched similar library and I found brlcad.
14:54.03elenahave to go. bye
14:54.09d-lobye!
14:54.10brlcadcya elena!
14:54.25elenagood luck, phy. let me know how it goes.
14:54.29phyTurtlebye!
14:54.31phyTurtleyes
14:54.51brlcadphyTurtle: ever worked with metaballs?
14:55.05phyTurtleno
14:55.07brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/primitives/niceballs.png.html
14:55.29brlcadpromises that it's safe for work :)
14:55.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r34441 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/clstepcore/ (sdaiSelect.cc sdaiSelect.h): Changed a return type from int to long in order to support building on 64bit hardware.
14:56.43phyTurtlewhat is metaball?
14:57.20phyTurtlenow I'm looking the image.. but I can't figure out what it is..
14:59.40brlcadanother example: http://www.math.sunysb.edu/%7Esorin/online-docs/blender/html/x2708.html
15:00.08brlcadbasically they are points with a 'weight' .. that then cause volumes and field effects
15:01.23brlcadso that you get blended volume between your field points
15:02.02brlcadah, here we go.. some nice examples: http://sayinghai.com/metaballs3d.html
15:06.28phyTurtleis metaball using raytracing too?
15:09.01phyTurtleI need the info that if a ray intersect a solid, what the intersection point is, on rectangular coordinate.
15:09.53phyTurtleI think I need to study elimentary computational geometry and ray tracing.
15:10.36phyTurtleso, could you recommand me some reference? book or paper..?
15:25.05brlcadyes, you can shoot a nirt ray at a metaball too
15:25.27brlcadit does represent a solid with defined inside/outside characterization
15:28.30brlcadreally don't think studying computational geometry or ray tracing is going to help you get up to speed, but there are lots of great books and papers (thousands really) ..
15:29.11phyTurtleok. thanks^^
15:29.24phyTurtlenow I should go.
15:29.35phyTurtlehere is 24:30 now.
15:29.57phyTurtlesee you later . bye!
15:29.58brlcadokay, good talking to you
15:30.07brlcadsomeone's generally always here ;)
15:30.08brlcadcya
15:30.20phyTurtlethanks. bye
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15:34.24starseekerwas thinking mesh intersections would be a good excuse to integrate GTS
15:35.50starseekerIt's not a problem with the pipe solid data - it's a problem with how the  pipe code was handling one particular case in the shot results.  If you raytrace from a slightly different view you might avoid the problematic case, but odds are equally good you'll still run into it.
15:35.54starseekerI'll push the fix into the STABLE branch this morning, but I don't think there's anything you can do to the pipe itself to avoid the bug.
15:36.00starseekerwhoops
15:36.01starseekersorry
15:37.27starseekermutters under his breath about text selection integration on Mac between X11 and normal apps...
15:37.52starseekerAnyway, http://gts.sourceforge.net/gallery.html shows some examples of mesh intersections, unions, subtractions, etc
15:46.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34442 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/libged/libged.vcproj: Added scale_ell.c and scale_tor.c to the libged build file for windows.
15:51.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34443 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/librt/librt.vcproj: Modified the windows build file for librt (i.e. mirror.c and table.c have moved).
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17:23.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34444 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (19 files in 19 dirs): Mods to accommodate new files, moved files and deleted files.
17:29.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34445 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (archer/archer.bat mged/mged.bat util/rtwizard.bat): Update to 7.14.7
17:30.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34446 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 5 dirs): Added code to edit torus attributes in Archer via the mouse.
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18:33.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34447 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/metaball/metaball.c: Have rt_metaball_point_value_metaball return something to make the compiler happy.
18:35.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34448 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: Put back declarations for rt_pipept_print and rt_metaballpt_print.
18:37.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34449 10/brlcad/trunk/src/fb/fbfade.c: Do an #ifndef drand48 before defining a drand48 function.
19:06.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34450 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (terrain.c vegitation.c): Do an #ifndef drand48 before defining a drand48 function.
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19:23.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34451 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
19:23.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: this one is borderline user-visible but does impact the style/appearance of mged
19:23.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: and archer so go ahead and mention it. bob worked on converting several/many of
19:23.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: the widgets in archer and a couple in mged over to using the new tk 'ttk'
19:23.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: widgets. ttk is a new modular themable widget system developed for tcl/tk 8.5.
19:23.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: these new widgets even further make BLT unnecessary.
20:15.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34452 10/brlcad/trunk/src/fb/fbfade.c: consistency cleanup, remove ancient irrelevant docs
20:17.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34453 10/brlcad/trunk/src/fb/fbfade.c: it's already wrapped, kinda silly to double-wrap it
20:18.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34454 10/brlcad/trunk/include/config_win.h: it's provided as a define for windows, so define HAVE_DRAND48 to true
20:19.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34455 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (common.h opennurbs_ext.h): Mods for building on Windows.
20:33.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34456 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (terrain.c vegitation.c): ya killin' me bob. revert r34450. HAVE_DRAND48 is now defined per config_win.h so shouldn't need all that hackery and code duplication. if you need the same code in more than one place, it's the wrong way.
20:35.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34457 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/Makefile.am: reverting back to revision 34408 to fix distcheck on cruisecontrol will clean up monday
20:36.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34458 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/terrain.c: should be the other way around. rand_s() is very windowsy. some minor ws cleanup too.
20:48.27``Erikah, dave applied the fix to src/other/step that I was about to dig into (I think it's treating it like a boolean, so the extra precision is unnecessary)
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21:55.15rincondoes brl cad has dimensioning facilities, distance measuring tools, and precision enough to make engineering 2d drawings
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22:00.01brlcadrincon: there are very limited dimensioning facilities (at least for producing 2d drawings), nothing automatic
22:00.12brlcadthere are various measuring tools, though, very good ones at that
22:00.37brlcadthere's also automatic drawing generation, just unannotated
22:00.49brlcade.g., http://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/havoc_rtedge.png.html
22:01.24brlcadif you wanted to add annotations for dimensions, though, you'd have to calculate them and add them to the image manually
22:01.38brlcadwould be a great addition for someone to make, but to date hasn't happened
22:01.50rinconverical horizontal and radial are enough dimensioning facilities for me, does it has it?
22:02.11brlcad``Erik: you should fix that better .. that pointer->int/long cast seems wrong
22:02.22brlcadmake it return a bool if it's a bool
22:02.52brlcadrincon: yeah, those are easy to calculate -- you can create a bounding box around any arbitrary object and get the dimensions of that box
22:03.27brlcadcould even probably script them together so it's a one step operation if you really needed to call it a lot
22:03.42rinconbrlcad: what i mean is to draw dimensioning symbols
22:04.30rinconlike basic dimensioning autocad facilities does? |--------|  ......
22:05.29brlcadstarseeker: for those particular cases, gts provides nothing that nmg doesn't already do
22:05.48brlcadand even better, our nmg routines should do much better to preserve solidity (gts doesn't care)
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22:06.51brlcadrincon: i know what you mean -- that's what I was referring to with "you'd have to calculate them and add them to the image manually"
22:07.13brlcadcalculating the dimension is done fairly easily, but not automatic, and not graphically
22:07.36brlcadyou'd have to add whatever dimensions you want to the image manually
22:08.10brlcadthat's more a drafting feature, so we just haven't had a lot of demand/priority for it compared to other issues
22:08.30rincondoes brl cad has the capability of drawing a circle of radius 0.0000001 ?
22:08.38brlcadsure
22:09.41brlcadhave to keep absolute units into account, though
22:09.58brlcadall values are stored as mm, so you'd have to be working in a larger scale
22:10.49rinconbrlcad: can you draw in m in brlcad?
22:10.51brlcadyou can shift the scale by setting a much larger working scale to the model
22:10.57brlcadsure
22:10.58rinconmeters?
22:11.01brlcad"units m"
22:11.13brlcadyou can arbitrarily change your units as needed
22:11.24rinconthat is good
22:12.16brlcadit's common that a modeler will have part data for one object in meters, another in feet, yet another part in mm .. you just set units while you work and everything is seamless
22:12.44rinconbrlcad: in that particular is better than autocad
22:13.25brlcadwe're better than autocad in *many* ways under the hood ..
22:13.35brlcadwe're just a lot worse with regards to GUI and usability :)
22:13.49rinconbrlcad: the dimensioning part needs more collaboration
22:13.59brlcadsure, you going to work on it? :)
22:14.34rinconbrlcad: i do not have enough time, by now by i'd like to
22:14.43rinconby=but
22:14.54brlcadcommon problem
22:15.00brlcadwhich is why it's not implemented ;)
22:15.25rinconbrlcad: yes i will collaborate some of these days
22:15.32rincongive me time
22:19.04rinconbrlcad: does brlcad use layers , and groups objects into compound block entiities?
22:19.59brlcadlayers can be achieved through combinations, but they aren't specific/separate entities
22:20.07brlcadthey are generalized object groupings
22:20.43brlcadso 'yes', but not exactly the same way as autocad -- can achieve the exact same end-result though
22:21.44rinconbut can you group automatically as you draw, or you have to add objects one  by one?
22:23.17brlcadlatter, nearly everything is explicit (intentionally)
22:24.58rinconbrlcad: for example to tell cad all things i will draw today will be on group "A"?
22:26.43rinconis it possible?, or you have to draw first and group later...?
22:27.04brlcadlike I said, nothing is automatic
22:27.16brlcadso you'd have to create the objects, then add them to groups
22:27.40brlcadif you had three objects, a b c, and wanted to group them: g mygroup a b c
22:28.28brlcadif you gave them a consistent naming convention, a.r b.r c.r, you could use globbing: g mygroup *.r
22:28.50rinconi will not call that automatic, it is just to put a flag in the object that identifies the group by default.....seems to be easy to program
22:29.31brlcadit's not a matter of difficulty
22:29.40brlcadhence the (intentionally) comment
22:30.13brlcadit's something that would be happening potentially unbeknownst to you, and certainly not explicit at the minimum
22:30.52brlcador if your specific example, that'd be very stateful, something you'd have to "turn on / turn off" .. and how do you introspect to know when that behavior is on/off
22:34.31rinconi know it is a matter of collaboration, but thinking about the solution is the first step, objects are complex entities that has many aspects if you set all of the aspects to a default value the group must be one of them and a default group can be the group "0" for exampl
22:36.33rinconand you can set a enviroment variable with the current group
22:38.19brlcadtherein is one of the differences -- it does make sense for all objects to exist on some 'layer' as an entity type, but not on a generalized group
22:38.34brlcadthere are plenty of objects/models that exist without any group
22:38.38``Erik*readreadread* autocad is more of a computer aided drafting program, BRL-CAD is more of a computer aided engineering/analysis package
22:39.33brlcadI think it would be useful to add a concept of layers as specific entities (as they have very different behaviors and semantics from groups, distinct subset)
22:39.42rinconErik: you can not analyze nothing if do not draw it first
22:40.01``Erikwas looking into changing that method to bool, was researching how it was used to make sure his assumption is correct
22:40.14brlcad'draw' is very much a drafting term.. you don't draw objects, you model them :)
22:40.29brlcad2d vs 3d terminology ;)
22:40.59``ErikBRL-CAD grew up modeling existing objects to do things to/with them, so the whole path to generate a blueprint really wasn't a factor :D
22:41.30brlcadand brl-cad has it's own terminology where 'draw' specifically means to display the object up on the screen, not modify or create
22:41.59rinconbrlcad: drawing is basic, you have to start by basic to move forward
22:42.19``Erikthat depends on how you define "draw"
22:42.55brlcadrincon: *drafting* is basic, and no you don't have to start with drafting
22:42.55rincondraw: is to draw a building for example
22:43.23brlcadthe act of modeling may or may not be basic
22:43.24``Erikthe only thing you can define recursively is recursion.
22:44.48rinconErik: is brlcad the most close i can find to autocad in free software?
22:45.14``Erikum, I think things like 'qcad' might be fundamentally closer, but not nearly as mature
22:45.26brlcadrincon: we're by far the most feature complete, but qcad focuses on 2D
22:46.05``ErikI don't think wings3d or ac3d are close to either, they're more like 3dmax
22:46.35brlcadrincon: not to misunderstand -- I don't disagree entirely with what you're saying, other than the specific meaning of those terms, or even disagree that we shouldn't have some feature such as you suggest
22:46.43``ErikI think steve abandoned ppe
22:47.14``Erikd'no the scene 'nuff to say much, though
22:47.20brlcadrincon: it's more a matter of there are 10000 things we can be working on, and that's simply not a priority at the moment, but could be if you were working on it ;)
22:47.36``Erikhehehehe patches welcome! :D
22:48.14``Erikbrlcad: what was that trivial patch you guys were discussing earlier?
22:48.26brlcaddunno
22:48.34rinconbrlcad: is it more practical draw engineering plans in qcad than doing it in brlcad?
22:48.44``Erikalso; what're some good search keywords for that video you mentioned on the way back from lunch? :D
22:48.57brlcadrincon: if your end-goal is drafting diagrams and your okay not having a 3D model, sure
22:49.24rinconi mean plans of civil engineering for example
22:49.29brlcadthey have a lot more 2D drafting features than brl-cad has, we focus a LOT more on 3D and solid modeling
22:49.40``Erikrincon: you mean blueprints, yes?
22:50.10brlcadcivil engineering plans ARE drafting diagrams
22:50.11rinconi mean the design of a concrete structure for example?
22:50.31brlcadjust a specific domain subset
22:50.45``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/havoc_rtedge.png.html  this is the closest we get atm
22:51.13brlcadrincon: I'm getting the sense that you don't seem to understand the distinction between the drafting and non-drafting approaches to modeling -- they are very very different
22:51.36brlcadautocad is from the ground up predominantly a drafting system, but that's not the only way by a long shot
22:51.37``Erikbut we can do things like photorealistic rendering, stress/strain analysis, solving mass of structures, etc. that your drafting programs won't do
22:52.26brlcadsystems like catia, unigraphics, and pro/engineer are not predominantly drafting systems (yet still CAD), they're 3D solid modeling systems that utilize a non-drafting approach at their core
22:53.00brlcadimportant to understand that distinction as it affects the outputs that you're talking about, your goals and products
22:53.12``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/gallery/s/diagrams/Industry_Diagram.png.html might be good to consider and study :)
22:56.26rinconbrlcad: do you think is better to make a draw qcad?
22:56.45rinconbrlcad: do you think is better to make a 2D draw with qcad?
22:56.46brlcadrincon: absolutely not, but then I'm very biased :)
22:57.17brlcadI think you will find it a lot easier to generating 2D annotated drawings with qcad, sure ;)
22:57.31brlcadbut 'better', hell no ;)
22:58.43``Erikif all you want to do is make a blueprint and stop, qcad might be sufficient... but once you want to go past that point, we can do that where they cannot :)
22:59.42rinconErik: qcad  needs a lot of collaboration....
23:00.17``Erikhttp://www.qcad.org/qcad.html  if you read their pimp lit, they outright say they just do 2d line (technical) drawings, we do 3d solid geometry :)
23:00.55brlcadrincon: it does, we do a lot more by far, but we also need a lot of 'collaboration' as you put it
23:01.39brlcadso if you want to help, just let someone know and they can help you get familiarized with the source code or writing docs or isolating bugs, etc
23:02.00brlcadotherwise, it is what it is and we're working on making it better in the meantime
23:02.44rinconErik: brlcad: isolating bugs sounds good to me but i am not sure if i like qcad more than brlcad
23:03.23``Erikthey're different beasts with different purposes, dude... there's a bit of overlap, but apples and oranges are both fruit *shrug*
23:04.48brlcadpassive contributions aren't nearly as useful as active contributions (i.e. things that take time) .. we can all come up with 100 ways to make brl-cad better, some new feature minor or major
23:04.53brlcadideas are cheap, time is not ;)
23:04.53``Erikif your intent coincides with BRL-CAD, please, grab a bug or something off the todo list, we'll help you where we can :) but we can't decide which is more appropriate for you, you have to understand what your goal is and make that choice yourself :)
23:06.17``Erik(I don't mean to be rude, but *shrug* that's what it all boils down to)
23:06.38rinconi think is better to help brlcad because it is more advanced but  , i think 2D blueprints can improve more the humanity level than a deep engineering capability
23:07.52rinconthe monopoly of autocad must be finished
23:08.04``Erikok, I would recommend that you play with the system a bit, make some models, render then in various ways... then think of some ideas for how you can make it better for you and talk to us then :) we can help steer you towards the lower hanging fruit and where to dig in at that time
23:08.16``Erikbut that's just my personal view here :) *shrug*
23:09.34``Erikthere are tutorials on the website that have been honed over a decade or two of classes and use, that'd be a good approach to learning what BRL-CAD is and is not at this time :)
23:10.12``Eriksound good?
23:11.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34459 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/terrain.c: massive cleanup and refactor of the nurbs terrain example. fix a memory corruption and eliminate all globals.
23:12.52rinconErik: brlcad is not on the fedora repos, why?
23:13.10``Erikum, because no one has taken the time to generate the binaries
23:13.30``Erikwe have an rpm spec file, but *shrug* I don't use linux myself
23:13.43``Erik(even though I think I was the one who made the spec file... and the deb directory)
23:13.52brlcadrincon: perhaps a place you could help, work on getting it added to fedora
23:14.17rinconErik: i prefer to isolate bugs
23:14.22``Erikhas been remiss on support the FreeBSD port lately :/
23:14.57brlcadthe answer is 99% of the time, because there are 100 other things we *are* working on that were determined to be more important (out of the 10000 things we could be working on)
23:15.55brlcadjust about anyone could help get brl-cad into fedora -- I can probably count on one hand how many people could add a new annotation primitive to BRL-CAD :)
23:17.05rinconcan brlcad be installed in fedora?
23:17.09brlcadsure
23:17.31rinconlet me see i am going to install it first
23:17.36``Erikone of our primary "paid for" targets is redhat enterprise, fedora isn't too different
23:18.01brlcadsomeone was working on it at one point, and supposedly had it done, but don't know where it ended up
23:23.42``Erik*asplode*!
23:23.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34460 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/clstepcore/ (sdaiSelect.cc sdaiSelect.h):
23:23.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: Change the exists() method to return a bool. This only seems to be
23:23.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: used in that capacity and causes 32/64b issues by using the address
23:23.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: as "true" and NULL as "false".
23:24.27``Erikindianlarry can take it up with me on tuesday if I broke it
23:24.32``Erik:D
23:24.58rinconmy processor is an athlon which brlcad should i use
23:25.16brlcadnotes NULL is not necessarily 0 ? :)
23:25.17``Erikthe one you build from source?
23:25.35``Erikno, but the c++ makes that assumption
23:25.36brlcadathlon is x86_64
23:25.56``Erikit sets the internal val to NULL, then acts like it's 0 when not set elsewhere
23:26.01rinconhttp://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292&package_id=113559
23:26.34brlcadrincon: yes?
23:26.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34461 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/clstepcore/sdaiSelect.cc: ok, ok, NULL is not necessarily 0.
23:27.00``Eriknow stfu
23:27.02``Erik:D
23:27.19brlcadrincon: care to redesign the website? :)
23:27.26brlcadwants a redesign badly for some reason
23:28.06rinconbrlcad: i just want to experiment the reality of brlcad
23:28.21``Erikredesign as in heirarchal redesign, or a new css face?
23:28.24brlcadrincon: fair enough
23:28.28brlcadnew facelift
23:28.46brlcadneeds to have a lot more of our information uploaded and organized too, but that's a separate task altogether
23:28.50brlcadthe appearance
23:29.02brlcadactually have a hierarchical organization all sorted out
23:29.13``ErikI don't quite understand why people continue to build css by hand when there're some quite nice css compilers out there
23:29.14brlcadworked on that for hours a long time ago
23:29.34*** part/#brlcad rincon (n=alvaro@190.77.167.45)
23:29.45``Erikit's like coding in assembly... yeah, it's good to learn how to do it, but you simply don't do that in real life
23:30.03``Erikmore than a few hours to make it work on the various IE's iirc
23:30.23``Erikcatch ya later, rincon, nice meeting you O.o
23:30.34brlcadI mean I worked for hours just on the hierarchical organization
23:30.38``Erikhopes he wasn't too dickish to the dude
23:30.39brlcadlot of thought went in
23:31.35brlcadhighly suspects that was an NNPP conversation
23:31.48``Erikyeah,
23:31.57``Erikthus my "here's what you do, now shut up and go do it" attitude
23:32.31``Erik(nnpp?)
23:33.43brlcadnet negative producing (person) .. conversation
23:34.11brlcadbut it's still good to say if only to have logged and reiterated
23:34.20``Erik*shrug* everyone can bring a positive effect if steered and utilized effectively
23:34.27``Erikthere are tasks for all levels of ability
23:35.41``Erikbtw, that other/step patch... that's totally "it compiles, ship it" :D hopefully it's trivial enough that I didn't bung something
23:36.05``Erikgot his books today, huzzah, *read*
23:37.00``Erik"practical common lisp" and "lisp in small pieces"
23:37.35brlcadsounds like a hack'n'slash horror thriller
23:37.55brlcadsmall pieces... bloody curlies everywhere!
23:38.09``Erikthese... are your fathers parenthesis
23:38.15``Erikfrom a more civil time
23:38.43``Erikthe ToC of the small pieces book is... terrifyingly impressive
23:39.19``Erikchapter 2 has greek in the name, chapter three is hitting continuations
23:39.36``Erikchapter 1 is how to write an evaluator and compiler for the language
23:39.55``Erik"macros: their use & abuse"
23:40.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34462 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/vegitation.c: cleanup
23:40.35``Erikan awfully complete working of OO that stomps c++/java in 30 pages
23:40.54``ErikI think there's a lot in this book, it's gonna hurt and take a while to digest :)
23:42.14brlcadthinks ``Erik should work on a 'led' tool that binds lisp to libged as an expression evaluator as he works his way through his books
23:42.34``Eriksupposedly, it's the seminal text to move one from a basic 'hello world' grub to a guru grade user
23:42.38brlcadcackles and evil laugh
23:42.40``Erik"led"?
23:42.49brlcadlisp geometry editor, lge? :)
23:42.54``Erikheh
23:43.06``Erikcffi is pretty clean
23:43.10``Erikso is uffi
23:43.18``Erikboth far less painful than jni
23:43.30brlcad(opendb 'moss.g (make sph sph))
23:43.45``Erik'cept that'd get one flamed up one side and down the other
23:43.58``Erik(with-db "moss.g" (make sph sph))
23:43.59``Erik:)
23:44.25``Erik(make "sph" 'sph) perhaps?
23:44.49``Erikand #P"moss.g"
23:44.56``Erikack.. brain... exploding...
23:44.57brlcadprobably (make "sph" "sph"), all gets passed as literals to libged
23:45.22brlcadcould get fancy, but really no need
23:45.31brlcadjust need a binding layer
23:45.32``Erikis it right to refer to the data type as a string? that requires string comparison and eliminates compile time error checking
23:46.22``Erik*shrug* these books are pure lithp, interface would be using one of the ffi layers, different scope
23:46.25brlcadthere's not yet any means for libged to declare expected args so that you could do anything other than strings atm
23:46.35``Erikthat's cuz tcl sucks
23:46.43brlcadhas nothing to do with tcl
23:46.44``ErikI mean, tcl thinks of everything a string
23:46.47brlcadtalking about libged
23:47.11brlcadthey approach it from an argc/argv command interface
23:47.16``Erikwhich is the transport of mged C functions, which exist as the support cast to the tcl layer
23:47.27brlcadwhich is irrelevant :)
23:47.37``Erikthe API in mged shows its tcl heredity quite readily :)
23:47.41``Eriklibged, rather
23:47.52brlcadI don't see it like that
23:48.00``Erik*shrug* ok
23:48.00brlcadit's pretty simple and clean as it is
23:48.16brlcadeach one of those commands could be trivially turned into it's own program
23:48.33brlcadand probably should at least for testing purposes
23:48.38``Erikok, it shows adaptation from a language that understand nothing other than strings
23:48.41brlcadwould be kinda neat
23:48.43``Erikbe it tcl, shell, ...
23:48.50brlcadsure
23:49.49brlcadnot that it'd be different even outside that context, though -- it's meant to be high-level like that so the api is untyped by design
23:49.56brlcadnot just a side effect
23:50.52brlcadcould have gone a vararg approach as well, but that was a later thought and has a LOT of implications
23:51.46``Erikhm, is lowest common denominator the best approach? opposed to explicit typing in the weakly typed hooks?
23:51.55``Erikyeah, that'd be a lot of weird custom parsing :/ lcd is probably better
23:52.07brlcadplus rewriting getopt parsing for 400+ commands/functions would really suck :)
23:52.09``Erikshouldn't be too terrible of a perforance hit
23:52.24brlcadI was thinking of some hybrid
23:52.39brlcadas there are some typed objects in the ged object that is passed to them all
23:52.55brlcadfor view(s) and geometry object(s)
23:53.12``Erikbut suppose you flop the typing in your script
23:53.24``Erikinstead of handling in the "native" language format
23:53.29brlcadso if you have a named object as an argv element, it's looked up against the geometry object has that was passed in or looked up in the db provided
23:53.32``Erik... O.o it'd have to be explicitely handled?
23:53.48brlcadthe commands should handle their own type 'too' at least
23:54.14brlcadbut I was thinking of having something more like a registration interface for each command where they could report their expected arglist format/types
23:54.18``Erikso (parse-integer x :junk-allowed t) all over the lisp? or whatever ruby or python do to parse a string to an int? or float? or symbol?
23:54.42``Erikok, but different languages have different types
23:54.46brlcadso if you had a typed language, you could have your wrapper command pull the information so it can do type checks
23:54.48``Erikhow does swag deal with that?
23:55.02``Erikwouldn't be surprised if they punted
23:55.18brlcaddunno
23:55.29``Erikthis is all brainpuke *shrug* I'm just thinkin' noisly
23:55.30brlcadpacks it up
23:55.32``Eriknoisily
23:55.37``Erikaight, drive careful, dude
23:55.39brlcadcode that shtiff up
23:56.06brlcadcould find a way to bind typing up to libged -- that'd be cool
23:57.21``Erikhas a few more pressing tasks first :(
23:57.45``Erikand only some of them software development hhe
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090508

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090508

00:00.32brlcaddamn
00:02.37``Erik?
00:02.43brlcaddreeves_: finally got to cleaning up the patch and testing the extrude enhancement .. bug it fails to render on my first attempt, will check it more tomorrow to see if my merge wasn't clean but looks like maybe some logic breakage (getting random behavior from 3/odd hits to crashes to alloc failures)
00:03.11``Erikhm
00:03.52brlcadunfortunately, it's really hard to tell -- it's a bad patch with so many ws changes merged in at the same time
00:04.14``Erikfeh, ask him to fix that and resubmit
00:04.26brlcad(for future ref., should rarely ever change formatting/ws/style in a patch unless *that* is the patch)
00:04.30``Erik:%s/[ \t]+$//
00:04.34brlcadthat was the fixed  :)
00:04.40brlcadneeds more fixing
00:05.17``Erikboth the emacs and vi/ex fu is in the standard footer, it takes a bit of work to screw up formatting
00:05.51brlcadindentation was fine
00:06.00brlcadthat's mostly what the footer enforces
00:06.44brlcadspaces within parens, one-liners vs breaking things up onto multiple lines, brace placement, .. those were things changed (mostly for the better, but still makes the patch unreadable)
00:07.07``Erik*shrug* learning how to submit to a project "wrong" style is part of maturing as a developer, learning to know what the diff is before commit is another part
00:07.13``Erikbounce it on him and let him learn :)
00:07.19brlcadi just did
00:07.22brlcad:P
00:08.34brlcadmm, okay really time now, seeing if that worked was last 'todo' for the day
00:51.29``ErikI was wrong, it's the command window that has the status bar, not the display window
01:22.23brlcadah yeah
01:22.52brlcadit's status is done through plot
01:24.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34463 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/Makefile.am: patch-g.1 and rpatch.1 are missing from the install and dist
01:30.50starseeker``Erik: you got Lisp in Small Pieces????
01:30.54starseekeris jealous
01:31.23``Erikheh, yup
01:31.29``Erik$90 or so at amazon
01:31.55``ErikI've talked to peter enough that I'm sure I could get PCL signed, but getting lisp in small pieces signed would be gnarley O.o
01:32.28``Erik(I actually put the order in after getting fitshaced and talking to peter in private for a bit heh)
01:33.14starseekerhas PCL, but hasn't been able to face the $90 price tag of Lisp in Small Pieces
01:33.15``ErikI made a comment about lisp1 vs lisp2 on my "blog" and xach said that lisp in small pieces would answer my queries
01:33.52``Erikamusingly, the $50 book is hardback, the $90 is softback
01:34.08starseeker$50 for a hardback???? where????
01:34.15``Erikamazon, pcl
01:34.22starseekeroh, PCL
01:34.44``ErikI asked him how I could get the most money in his pocket, he said amazon *shrug*
01:34.50starseekernods
01:35.12starseekeryeah, PCL is in some ways the accumulated wisdom you would get by a LOT of reading of the #lisp irc logs
01:35.26starseekertends to make it extremely useful
01:35.48``Erikit helped me a lot reading it at gigamonkeys.net, I figured I should stand up and help the community by 'donating' the $'s to buy it
01:36.18starseekercould you bring in your Lisp in Small Pieces for a day?  That's the closest thing out there to a literate lisp implementation, and I've been really curious to get a look at it
01:36.39``Eriksure
01:36.44``Erikthe ToC is jizzgasmic
01:37.38``Erikchapter 1 is how to implement a basic interpreter
01:37.43brlcadyou three need a room for the night? :)
01:38.02``Erikchapter 2 goes into the lisp1/lisp2 debate, 3 is continuations
01:38.21``Erikbrlcad: this book is to programming what your car is to daily drivers
01:38.38brlcadmmhmm
01:38.54starseekerbrlcad: sorry, didn't mean to wander offtopic
01:39.03brlcadheh
01:39.16brlcadsmacks starseeker with the clue-by-four jokestick
01:39.21starseekerah :-)
01:39.32starseekerwas up at 4am, brain not functional anymore
01:39.34``ErikI haven't dug in, but this thing really seems to but the dragon book to shame
01:40.04starseekerIf I were to actually start writing a literate lisp implementation, that book would be purhase item #1
01:41.00starseekerprobably followed by the ANSI Lisp spec in physical form, if I can get away with the $$ (NOT cheap...)
01:41.26``Erika lot of recent rumblings about updating the ansi spec
01:41.48``Erikbut some greybeards are poopooing the id
01:41.50``Erikidea
01:42.24starseekeragain?  where'd that pop up?
01:42.43``Eriksome blogs and irc convo, uh, does "pcos" ring a bell?
01:42.54starseekerirc handle?
01:43.47``Erikno clue, it was a reference to a uunet or blog post
01:43.47starseekerhmm
01:43.47starseekerwill dig in a sec...
01:43.55``ErikI think I'm remembering it right... was spoken in the same reverence as "rms" "jkh"
01:44.33``Erikyet another rumbling about updating the spec *shrug*
01:46.57starseekerI collected a lot of info about spec issues some time ago:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/Project_FreeSpec
01:47.13starseekerwas on the alu.org wiki, but I think that's gone now
01:48.14starseekeroh, I'll bet pcos = Pascal Costanza
01:48.17brlcadsips a recently acquired delightful 21-year
01:49.27``Erikholds his tumbler out and waits for brlcad to share
01:49.35starseekerbasically, the objection to updating the ANSI spec is that the group who's job it is to do that is below minimal strength to do anything, and getting it up to strength would involve people coughing up $$ for membership
01:50.35``Erikpascal sounds familiar
01:52.03starseekermore annoyingly, the copyright on the spec document itself is so hopelessly muddled that there is no hope of an "unofficial" update that would be invulnerable to copyright lawsuits
01:52.13``Erikif the committee cannot get enough paying membership to make a decision, maybe the committee should rethink the buy-in amount or their charter
01:52.25starseekerand the commercial vendors MIGHT have an interest in torpedoing such an effort
01:52.39``ErikI mean, this sounds lik ea classic "failboat" situation
01:53.01starseekerapparently the original spec process was rather... intense, according to some of the chatter I've heard from those who were there
01:53.18starseekerI don't think they have the discretionary power to do that
01:53.21``Erikdoes the next CL have to be ansi, even?
01:53.39starseekernot really - sbcl is fast becoming a "de-facto" standard
01:54.24brlcadstarseeker: so join the group and help update the spec .. how much is that fee? :)
01:54.31starseekerchecks...
01:54.55``Erikjust 2 years salary? :D
01:56.13starseekererm... the J13 page is gone
02:01.59starseekerhumph - moved it http://www.incits.org/tc_home/Old%20TC%20Stuff/j13.htm
02:04.03starseekerah ha http://www.incits.org/membership/meminfo.htm
02:05.11starseekerso at least $8k-$9.5k, unless I can get myself declared an academic institution
02:06.58starseekerand convince a few more people to pony up fees - I doubt any of them have bothered to cough up now that nothing is happening
02:12.11brlcadcould always one-up it and start an ISO spec effort
02:12.20starseekernods
02:12.44starseekeryeah, a restart would have to be the way to go
02:12.58brlcadwould probably have even better adoption, and while more complicated and longer process, much more likely to gain momentum
02:16.20starseekerActually, there IS an ISO Lisp of sorts... http://christian.jullien.free.fr/pd-islisp21.pdf.zip
02:16.59starseekerI remember looking at this because they actually did explicitly public domain their spec document - problem is, IIRC, it is a small subset of the functionality of Common Lisp
02:17.56starseekerer, here actually http://islisp.info/specification.html
02:18.32brlcadlooks like it's gone through several revisions though, could be a great place to start
02:20.49starseekerit probably would be - it is certainly worth starting with
02:21.01starseekerfor creating a new document
02:21.27starseekerI doubt they want to match the functionality of common lisp though - many consider that a rather... bloated spec
02:21.31brlcadalways saw all the bickering over (relatively insignificant) differences in the various lisp implementations to be one of its biggest failings
02:21.39starseekerwhich is rather more ironic when you consider they lack things like GUI and threads
02:21.43brlcadsmalltalk had/has nearly the same problem
02:21.57starseekernods
02:22.16starseekeryeah, it tends to attract people for whom the language is an end, not a means
02:22.55starseekerI still think if they had successfully implemented a useful, universal GUI layer early enough they would have become what Java is now
02:23.11brlcadlike a linux distro, it more just needs a champion that is willing to dedicate to being a leader through sustained advocacy and significant use
02:23.33madantruns scared at the mention of Java.. boogie monster..
02:25.01``Erikno
02:25.23``Erikjava didn't succeed from having a gui layer... it had an 8.5 ton marketing guerilla behind it
02:25.41brlcadstarseeker: actually the same reason that you're stearing clear of islisp assuming they wouldn't consider features included in common lisp (and seeing it as a subset as being a problem in itself) means it's probably already fairly doomed as a 'new' fork
02:25.49brlcadI meant contributing to them to extend
02:26.02starseeker's approach would be to take the ISLISP spec and sbcl (plus probably Sacla http://homepage1.nifty.com/bmonkey/lisp/sacla/index-en.html) and start crafting something as clean and elegent as possible from the ground up..
02:26.22brlcadforks almost always fail, from scratch fails with a couple more significant digits of certainty ;)
02:26.25starseekerbrlcad: yeah, that's true
02:26.30``Erikthe common subset of sbcl and clozure is probably a good starting point
02:27.16starseekerbrlcad: if I were to tackle it, the idea would be to build off of something like the VLISP research
02:28.04starseekerftp://ftp.ccs.neu.edu/pub/people/wand/vlisp/
02:28.47starseeker"just another lisp" wouldn't work
02:29.37``Erikone of the oft flaunted "advantages" of common lisp is that it's a stnadard, not an implementation, though...
02:29.57starseekeryes - you create a standard and an implementation together
02:30.05starseekerhence the literate approach
02:30.15brlcadyou'd probably have better luck just trying to create an 'iso scheme'
02:30.45``Erikpython has several implementations, but the only successful ones are very niche oriented :(
02:30.48brlcador extending islisp
02:31.25starseekerbrlcad: true.  The only way I would see a new effort as being better than building off of sbcl as is though is to have a "verified" lisp
02:31.35starseekerwhich would have to be a ground up effort by definition
02:31.37``Erikother than the primary one... which kinda says to me that doing an implementation and standard together ... is no better than just doing the implementation
02:31.44``Erikyou surrender the 'standard' aspect
02:31.51``Erikknow what I mean, vern?
02:32.29starseekertrue - but without at least one implementation, a spec is just paper
02:32.44starseekerand for a verified implementation, it would be a LOT of work to do even one correctly
02:33.19``Erikwell, C is a standard that has implementations... java is an implementation that claims a standard...
02:33.34brlcadstarseeker: heh, that would probably matter to .. a couple dozen people? :)  .. I just don't see that gaining momentum outside of being an academic project
02:33.48``Erikthe ebb and flow of the two are pretty distinct
02:33.54starseekerbrlcad: agreed :-).  It would matter in the mathematical field only
02:34.08starseekeras a foundation for a verified Computer Algebra System
02:34.35``Erikyeah, it's too bad that computer algebra systems just don't matter :D *Duck* *run* *flee* *hide*
02:34.35starseekerthe CAS might matter to more people, but you can't build a house with no foundation
02:34.36brlcadso what's "wrong" with CL? what's the actual problem being solved?
02:34.45brlcadas that is an ansi standard already
02:35.00``Erikmodern computing assumes things that CL doens't acknowledge
02:35.03starseekerno standard thread support, and no standard ffi mechanism are the biggies
02:35.05``Eriklike network programming
02:35.08``Erikthreading, etc
02:35.19``Erikit's state of the art for '85....
02:35.53brlcadas a *language*, lots of languages don't have support for things like threading and networking
02:36.08brlcadthat has little to do with the language itself
02:36.38brlcadc/c++ certainly seem to do just fine without 'em
02:36.52``Erikthinks it's dandy, but things like java, python, ruby, etc all support new shtuff, so *shrug*
02:37.29``Erikah, but C is its own ffi, the bsd tcp/ip socket is pretty much de facto standard, pthreads, ...
02:37.48``Erikit's not like there're two dozen competing halfassed attemps for each technology :)
02:38.01brlcadthere's a big diff between the language not supporting it and there being *no practical way possible* to do networking and threading too
02:38.42``Erikit's like even basic threading has the same kinda mess that c/c++ sees with gui widget toolkits
02:39.24brlcadc/c++ does fine because there are plenty of libs that build up from platform-specific intrinsics all the way up to generalized apis (e.g. pthreads) .. so where is the 'standard lisp common library' project?
02:40.05brlcadthere were two dozen competing halfassed attempts, and it still wasn't a (big) problem
02:41.15brlcadhow about the dozen ways you can get two processes to talk to each other even on modern systems .. still not standard
02:42.04brlcadsounds like you'd probably get the most mileage if that is in fact the problem, with developing something like APR for lisp
02:42.53brlcador a libbu or an stl or glib or stdc, etc
02:43.54brlcadand make it cross-platform to CL and Scheme to boot for bigger adoption props ;)
02:44.07brlcad'platform' in the loose sense of course :)
02:44.27``Erik*shurg* mebbe, but when combined with a small user community and that most people seem to have social skills in like wth de raadt or drepper, it gets awful ugly awful fast
03:01.04starseekerraises eyebrows - Oracle will not be throwing out SPARC
03:03.11``Erikthat's not too surprising, is it? oracle wants to build an end-to-end stack to compete with the ibm solution...
03:05.08starseekeryes, but including their own chips?  will they really do better than using x86?
03:05.26starseekerdon't get me wrong, anything that continues to enhance opensparc I'm all for
03:05.58``Erikhistorically, sun machines have been i/o superbeasts... and it might be more product differentiation than technical capability *shrug*
03:09.25starseekerdreams of the "open hardware desktop" and opensparc is the obvious (only?) serious candidate for a CPU - continued support for the open aspect I suppose isn't guaranteed but fingers crossed...
03:11.30``Erikyou assume oracle will continue support of the open aspect... typically pointy haired business sense says to lock it down as much as possible and go proprietary
03:12.12starseekernot assume - hope
03:13.14starseekerthey have to differentiate themselves from IBM somehow - if people study opensparc processors in college before entering the "real world" that may help Oracle, and probably won't hurt
03:13.36starseekerlocking it down makes sense only if they want exclusive use of it
03:14.01starseekeror license it I suppose
03:14.22starseekerARM seems to have the "license our CPU IP" market sewn up...
03:15.11``ErikI d'no, I have a feeling we'll see oracle producing sparc powered "database appliances"
03:15.26starseekerthinks students using *BSD and Linux in college was a big factor in those becoming more "accepted" once that generation got into the workforce
03:15.45``Erika few, mebbe half a dozen different physical boxes, all to support a dedicated database instance
03:16.11starseeker``Erik: sure.  that's what I'd expect.  What's not clear is whether being proprietary with sparc gets them anything in that scenario
03:16.40``Erikit doesn't have to, they just need to think it does
03:17.06starseekerIf you're coughing up the $$$$$ for Oracle in the first place, aren't you likely to go with THE Oracle stack rather than mix and match what would have to be unsupported 3rd party sparc hardware with Oracle software?
03:17.09``Erikapples openness with their architecture was incredibly short lived, I can't see oracle thinking any different
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03:17.40starseekerapple plays in the desktop market
03:17.54``Erikand most suits tend to think that openness == vulnerability
03:17.57starseekermost of their users don't care if the CPU is a stick of bubble gum, as long as it works
03:18.20starseeker``Erik: yeah, I've seen that argument too
03:18.53starseekerdebunking it is hard work - usually because it involves getting them to listen to unplesant truths in a way that doesn't get you fired
03:19.25starseekerbut at least some of Sun's management seems to be clued in on open source, so perhaps Oracle will listen to them
03:20.00starseekerhas seen speculation that Larry will keep OpenOffice going just as a nose-thumbing to Bill Gates, but I dunno...
03:20.28``Eriklarry does hate bill
03:20.29``Erika lot
03:21.03starseekerwon't be sorry to see KOffice get serious help, in some ways... it's a lot cleaner than the beast that is OO.org but its import/export (all important for that set of apps) kinda sucks
03:24.33starseekerbut that assumes serious dev resources would be committed by someone, and the only logical candidate I can think of is probably Red Hat...
03:25.39starseekerand they've gone the way of Gnome...
03:26.08starseekeroh, well.  two to three years should tell the tale
03:26.22``ErikI feel like such an outsider... vim, gnome, ... heh
03:26.46starseekertoo, for that matter - vim, fluxbox + gkrellm
03:26.50``Erikgot into gnome with 0.10
03:27.06starseekerwow
03:27.08``Eriknever like gkrellm, never really messed with fluxbox
03:27.30``ErikI think sawfish was the X wm I grooved to the most
03:27.47starseekermigrated from blackbox - gkrellm is a lot of compact info and functionality (mounting dvds, etc) in a very small space
03:27.53``Erikfvwm, ice, e, as, wm...
03:28.05starseekertried 'em all
03:28.15starseekerthe runner up was probably windowmaker
03:28.30``Eriksee, by the time gkrellm existed, I'd learned 'nuff to be totally happy in an xterm
03:28.50starseekerbut as I got past the point where having icons to click on to start apps was important, windowmaker seemed less optimal than it did initially
03:28.59starseeker``Erik: heh.  
03:29.31starseekeris a graph junkie - CPU graphs + hard disk activity graphs + network traffic graphs
03:29.36pooliostarseeker: ever tried a tiled WM?
03:29.58``ErikI got into sawfish with I think it was the 'crux' theme? a 2x2 workspace setup, Xterm in top left, web in top right, email in bottom left, "whatever else" in bottom right
03:30.07starseekerhas never seen any visual presentation of systeim activity he likes better - not even from Apple
03:30.20starseekerpoolio: urm.  isn't fvwm tiled?
03:31.34``Erikgot into centralized performance monitors with lightweight daemons polling info off the local machines
03:31.51starseekerah :-)  yeah, different situation.
03:31.58starseekerhas never had more than one machine to keep track of
03:32.20``Erikwent from a few to a few hundred in '02
03:32.56pooliostarseeker: hmm, i dont think it's considered tiled. Does it do automatic window layout and stuff?
03:33.11starseekeroh, that kind of tiled.  no, haven't used one like that
03:33.31poolioI went from Fluxbox -> xmonad, and love it :)
03:33.51starseeker``Erik: heh  yeah, that kind of monitoring is a whole 'nother animal
03:34.12starseekergoogles xmonad - anything that can unseat fluxbox is worth a look
03:35.05starseekerwritten in Haskell?? how's the performance?
03:37.14starseekerhmm - almost looks philosophically a sort of graphical screen
03:44.42starseekerpoolio: congrats - you've just successfully caused me to install a window manager out of curiosity - hasn't happened in years
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04:03.25starseekerpoolio: this is... actually pretty friggin cool
04:04.19starseekerit really does feel in some ways a bit like what screen would be if it were a graphical program...
04:17.47starseekermay just try this for a few days
04:17.57starseekersee what it feels like
04:18.24starseekermay not miss the graphical monitoring
04:18.34starseekerany favorite tricks?
04:18.42pooliostarseeker: schweet :D It's all configurable in Haskell. I can give you my stuff if you want, and you can hoook it up to a kinda graphical monitor like dzen2 or xmobar
04:19.10pooliolemme take a screenshot :P
04:20.12pooliohttp://poolio.org/xmonad.png
04:20.47poolioThe main thing I hated with fluxbox was that I would always have a billion windows opened and stacked on top of each other, and then on some desktops I'd want certain layouts for coding/chat/etc...
04:21.03poolioIt takes a while to get used to, but now I could never see going back :)
04:22.03starseekercan see that - I'll sometimes have five xterms open to the same directory, only two of which have anything happening because the other three are hidden
04:22.13starseekerthen I get to clean up the mess when everything is closed down
04:22.22starseekeryeah, that monitor looks interesting
04:22.28starseekeran extension, I take it?
04:24.34starseekerpoolio: there seems to always be one line at the bottom of a given terminal window - is that deliberate to allow controll space?
04:26.54starseekersnorts - gimp looks rather ackward
04:27.05starseekerno surprises there
04:32.55starseekerwill have to check out dzen, but after sleep
04:36.00poolioyeah so, you can also 'float' applications, so you can have windows on top and have the window manager ignore them, but it's not very good at that...
04:36.48poolioerr, I'm not sure about the one line gap, I have that too but thought it was related to the sizing of the window
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06:43.02Ralithstarseeker: playing with xmonad? :D
06:43.25Ralithhas it running on his two display machine
06:43.28Ralithhandles it beautifully.
06:43.59Ralithdoes not have any gaps on his terms
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09:01.30Mike111hi all
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09:38.25Mike111I am unable to compile 7.14.6 on Debian Lenny, P6
09:38.31Mike111any ideas?
09:40.11Mike111here are the final lines from make:
09:40.25Mike111make[2]: Entering directory `/home/yoel/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/bwish'
09:40.26Mike111/bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --tag=CC  --silent --mode=link gcc -I../../src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/unix -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3  -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -o btclsh btclsh-cmd.o btclsh-input.o btclsh-main.o btclsh-tcl.o ../../src/libtclcad/libtclcad.la ../../src/libdm/libdm.la ../../src/other/incrTcl/libitk.la
09:40.26Mike111../../src/other/incrTcl/libitcl.la -L../../src/other/tk/unix -ltk8.5 -L../../src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -ldl -lm ../../src/libtermio/libtermio.la
09:40.34Mike111../../src/libtclcad/.libs/libtclcad.so: undefined reference to `X24_close_existing'
09:40.44Mike111../../src/libtclcad/.libs/libtclcad.so: undefined reference to `_X24_open_existing'
09:41.01Mike111../../src/libtclcad/.libs/libtclcad.so: undefined reference to `X24_interface'
09:41.09Mike111collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
09:41.19Mike111make[2]: *** [btclsh] Error 1
09:42.07Mike111make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/bwish'
09:42.07Mike111make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
09:42.07Mike111make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src'
09:42.07Mike111make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
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11:58.04brlcadstarseeker: tis a good one to try out -- that wm has a lot of features that are in IEO for the new gui
11:58.15brlcadxmonad and wmii have a lot in common
11:59.25brlcadMike111: cool, so now that you're that far .. we can try some things
12:00.12brlcadtry this:  cd src/bwish && make CFLAGS=../../src/libfb/libfb.la
12:07.13CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34464 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/Makefile.am: removed fedex_src dependency
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12:46.49starseeker``Erik: here you go, a common lisp window manager:  http://www.nongnu.org/stumpwm/
12:48.30``Erikhehehe isn't that what sawfish is? :D
12:49.08``Erikmy wm of choice these days is the quartz/aqua dealie
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13:37.10starseekerhrm - setting up dzen isn't so simple, if you want to do it right
13:39.17starseekerooo - http://conky.sourceforge.net/
13:39.28starseekerdarn it, now I'm gonna have to figure it out
13:53.33madant_likes conky :)
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14:16.48rincondoes brlcad has uninstall facilities, when you install it from the tar.gz file?
14:17.43brlcadit fully installs into one directory, so you can just remove that directory
14:17.53brlcadfor example: rm -rf /usr/brlcad
14:18.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34465 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/CMakeLists.txt librt/CMakeLists.txt): stay in sync with Makefile.am
14:18.22brlcadwonders why the distcheck isn't catching the cmakelist updates..
14:21.03rinconbrlcad: will .tar.gz installation will add a menu?
14:22.06brlcadno
14:22.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34466 10/brlcad/trunk/Makefile.am: ah, so the cmakecheck is running but just not halting (depending on the version of make) when the script reports an error. make it stop so that an out-of-sync CMakeLists.txt file will cause a distcheck failure.
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14:22.35brlcadthe .tar.gz is an install tree, you 'install' it by just copying it into place
14:22.56brlcade.g., it'll unpack a usr/brlcad directory, and you copy that to /usr/brlcad
14:23.10brlcadto uninstall, you rm -rf /usr/brlcad
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14:23.21brlcaddoesn't get much simpler
14:24.01rinconbrlcad: no need of using the ./configure or make ?
14:24.20brlcadrincon: depends if you have a source tarball or a binary distribution
14:24.31rincongood question?
14:24.34brlcadthat was all presuming you had a binary
14:24.44rinconi do not know that
14:24.57brlcadwell I can't tell you what you downloaded :)
14:25.15brlcadand if you don't know, you have a lot bigger problems than uninstall :)
14:28.39rinconi downloaded this: http://sourceforge.net/project/downloading.php?group_id=105292&filename=brlcad_7.10.4_ia32.tar.gz&a=96672383
14:29.15brlcadwell that's a binary install
14:29.19brlcadhence the ia32
14:29.49rinconthere was no newer version for a 32 bit computer...
14:29.56brlcadyou took some link in order to get to that download link though, I'm sure that told you it was a binary install too
14:30.35brlcadyeah, binaries are only pushed out every so often for given platforms, want people from the community to do that
14:31.17brlcadthere's enough development tasks to be messing with binary installers every release, those installers can be prepared by anyone (even you!)
14:31.37brlcadif you want to help maintain the linux ia32 build, go for it
14:32.38rinconwhre is the newest version of brlcad sources?
14:32.56``Erikstarseeker: are you in today?
14:36.02brlcad~cadsvn
14:36.02ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
14:37.51rinconi copied brlcad folder to /usr now how do i start it?
14:46.20starseeker``Erik: I'll be in in an hour or so
14:46.49starseeker``Erik: something urgent?
14:47.09``Erikaight, I brought in that book if you want to thumb through it and see if it's worth picking up a copy... I've only skimmed, but I plan on getting deep into it this weekend O.o
14:47.44starseekerah, cool :-)
14:48.04starseekerthat may be the only book I've seen where a LIBRARY copy brings $99
14:48.33starseekerrincon: type mged
15:00.37rinconin /usr/brlcad/bin/mged ?
15:02.28rinconcommand.  /usr/brlcad/bin/mged  does not works
15:02.58rincon[root@alvaro-edicta-host bin]# /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
15:02.59rincon/usr/brlcad/bin/mged: error while loading shared libraries: libstdc++.so.5: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
15:02.59rincon[root@alvaro-edicta-host bin]#
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15:24.42starseekerstarts distcheck going and heads out
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15:55.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34467 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/mirror.c: that 2.0 scaling factor was rather important so that the object is translated across the mirror point far enough. fixes a bug introduced with the r34263 elimination of the offset as a separately tracked value.
15:56.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34468 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: unbroked. last call for commits.
16:04.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34469 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Consolidate the necessity to provide a simulation of drand48() to one place.
16:05.36brlcad~bob1961++
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17:08.37``Erikhuzzah, my car is standing on all 4 again
17:08.49brlcadcongrats
17:09.08``Erikstill needs body work and a new wheel though :(
17:09.55madantthinks 'them americans' love their cars too much ..
17:10.35brlcadmadant: indeed!
17:10.41brlcadis sick of car commercials
17:11.08madantoh.. and brlcad, what about the guy who bumped ur car ? any progress with the police ?
17:11.20brlcadmadant: nah, they're not going to do anything
17:11.28madantbrlcad, except the "things just work" commercial of course ..
17:11.29brlcadwill just get fixed
17:12.50madanthmm.. my cousin getting engaged tomorrow :P big deal in india i guess :D are there engagement parties in US ?
17:13.05brlcadof course
17:14.03madanthates being in family weddings etc. :P
17:25.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34470 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
17:25.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: no longer using the horrible old/former/obsoleted sf task tracker, so don't
17:25.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: reference it. instead just point to the trackers and be more succint on what
17:25.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: the purpose of this file is and how the devs use it. refer to the task backlog
17:25.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: as a backlog.
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17:43.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34471 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (libtienet/tienet_master.h master/master.c): announce when listening
17:44.20``Erikopposed to the old former obscoleted whiteboard in the hallway? :D
17:45.48brlcadno particularly, no
17:48.09brlcadnot everyone has access to that, nor is it very effective at being persistent or supporting a lot of items
17:48.18starseekermadant: the cog commercial is just using the car as an excuse to do the cool stuff ;-)
17:48.41``Erikit's very persistant, I bet the old items are still sunbaked on it somewhere
17:48.54starseekerand probably still need doing :-/
17:49.41brlcadstarseeker: actually, most of them are still active .. the only ones that were remaining when the board was taken down are the oldest ones in the sf tracker
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18:09.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34472 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
18:09.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: keith improved asc2g so that it will import even larger bots before running out
18:09.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: of memory (and import faster). he made it chunk in input into manageable sizes
18:09.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: and being more memory efficient. this was in response to sf feature request
18:09.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 2750772 from dwaynelk (asc2g fails on large/complex bots)
18:15.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34473 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: note that bob improved the interactive editing support in archer adding support for mouse-based editing of arb8's torii and ellipsoids
18:16.01brlcadI think that's everything -- should check yourself to make sure your user-visible changes are in there
18:16.34brlcadvaguely recalls a tire bug being fixed?
18:16.52brlcaddunno about user-visible for adrt, didn't seem in commits
18:17.10``Eriknah, pieces are still not public
18:17.33``Eriksoon... mwahaha
18:21.55brlcadupdating TODO -- anyone have something they think will be done by next month?
18:22.09brlcadideally at least one item from anyone doing anything
18:22.40``Erikwill get his car back, get his door fixed, and pick his nose. :D
18:23.04brlcadyeah.. okay
18:23.08brlcadthat's not helpful
18:24.13``Erikd'no how helpful "do more adrt stuff" would be O.o
18:24.26brlcadhow about that pnts as points to the dm mod?
18:25.06``Erikif I lose the will and steam with adrt work, I may go back to that as a distraction :/
18:25.07brlcadwell it is helpful if you can specify 'stuff'
18:25.58``Erikwould have to think on that *shrug*
18:26.16brlcadeven if it's minor, something measurable .. precursor to a much more involved planning day coming up anyways
18:26.45``Erikregaining the 2 lost isst modes? O.o
18:27.07brlcadwhat's one of them?
18:27.18``Erikcut and shot
18:27.29brlcadwhat's probably the easier of the two? :)
18:27.38``Erikd'no, but cut is first :)
18:28.12brlcadwhat's shot?
18:28.24brlcadthings on the shotline?
18:28.37brlcadassume cut is the split-view cutting plane
18:31.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34474 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
18:31.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: stub out a preliminary guess on what's achievable by the end of this release
18:31.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: iteration (3 weeks remaining) with coverage across at least 5 devs. pnt
18:31.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: improvements, step-g progress, archer updates, functab refactoring, and adrt
18:31.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: views.
18:31.32``Erikhrm, the split view one is cut, yes, ... mebbe the oter one was flos?
18:32.35``Erik*shrug*
18:32.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34475 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: break up the adrt to-do's, remove 'cleanup' as it's too vague
18:38.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34476 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
18:38.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: the polygonal NMG -> ON BREP is actually more important than old bspline/nurbs
18:38.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: NMG -> ON BREP so just stub out the goal for both. 'not suck' is too
18:38.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: nondescript for the tables command (don't remember what that meant, and I wrote
18:38.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: it). erik exposed nmg_fix_normals so remove from list.
18:42.13``Erik0
18:42.14``Erik
18:43.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34477 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
18:43.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: had it in mind for years now to record a matrix above all primitives (akin to
18:43.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: putting each primitive into their own comb) so that all primitives will retain a
18:43.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: local coordinate system by default (where their V stays at 0,0,0). this will
18:43.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: help primitives like the torus support non-uniform scaling without screwing with
18:43.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: the implicit form of a torus.
18:44.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34478 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: screw it, c++ is requisite given the BREP integration, GS and GE plans, and the new modeler.
18:46.15CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34479 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: the tops behaviors were merged with the old form formally deprecated. in 7.14.4
18:48.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34480 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: expand on CSG optimize task (probably should be multiple, but good enough for now)
18:49.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34481 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: looks like today will be release day.. awaiting a few more distchecks to complete.
18:51.22brlcadwonders if someone could go kick xon/xoff
18:57.08``Erikthey should be rebooting now
19:03.13``Erikaight, thye'reup
19:04.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34482 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Add NEWS note on tire tread fix.
19:06.27starseekerbrlcad: what do you think - are we ready on the backend  to have a go at implementing exec for search?
19:09.13starseekeris currently trying to internalize what is needed to build the "bounding box tree" needed for the NURBS raytracing algorithm
19:09.15brlcadstarseeker: it's close, there's still a few api problems that should be sorted out in the ged structure and to invoke a pass-through callback
19:09.34brlcadthat sounds like a more pressing task actually :)
19:09.59brlcadnurbs trumpeth all this summer as we pull into the final stretch
19:11.25starseekerheh - well, you asked for things that might get done within the month...
19:11.34starseekerdoesn't know about that one yet
19:11.44brlcadimplementing the bb routine for nurbs sounds like a good goal :)
19:12.01starseekeris also trying to figure out how that relates to our own ideas about sub-bounding-boxes for e.g. pipe
19:12.01brlcadsuccint in itself
19:12.06starseekerk
19:12.21starseekerpulls up TODO, unless it's frozen now?
19:15.41brlcadtodo is never really frozen
19:15.58brlcadonly risky code changes
19:17.14brlcadstarseeker: ws 'type' in that news commit
19:17.19brlcader, typo
19:17.32starseekeroops sorry
19:17.44brlcadand is that for specific use?
19:17.48brlcadthin tires, thick ones?
19:18.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34483 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS TODO): Fix NEWS ws typo, add TODO item specifically identifying need for a NURBS 'bounding box tree' building routine
19:18.57starseekerum... I THINK it showed up thicker treaded tires
19:20.04starseekeror, "wider" actually
19:20.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34484 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Tweak tire NEWS item some more
19:24.39*** join/#brlcad madant_ (n=d@117.196.128.49)
19:43.23starseekerbrlcad: distcheck passes on linux x86_64
19:43.32brlcadcool
19:57.58starseekerand Mac OSX
19:58.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34485 10/brlcad/trunk/ (12 files in 6 dirs): Added ged_pscale() for scaling primitives.' attributes.
19:58.39starseekerhmm.  
19:58.42starseekerrebuilds
20:01.02brlcadhuh, well that was certainly a good refactoring
20:01.27brlcadeliminated a couple hundred lines
20:06.38CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34486 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: Add pscale.c to CMakeLists.txt
20:13.24brlcadstarseeker: did distcheck catch that?
20:13.40*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
20:13.56starseekerdidn't hault, but I saw your script report it
20:14.03brlcaddamn
20:14.42brlcadthat should have worked
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20:39.35starseekerok, distcheck passed again on x86_64 linux and Mac
21:28.18brlcadthanks
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23:27.09starseekerand on gentoo 32 bit linux, fwiw
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090509

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090509

00:27.02*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
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09:48.31hippieindamakin8is just back from a small vacation and waves at brlcad madant_ pacman87 and madant_
09:48.36hippieindamakin8*mafm
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15:11.38madant_hippieindamakin8: howdy :) small vacations are always nice :D
15:12.01hippieindamakin8hey madant_
15:48.18*** part/#brlcad Nem (n=daemonne@192.12.117.87.donpac.ru)
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17:28.22*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
17:50.15brlcadhowdy hippieindamakin8
17:50.26hippieindamakin8hey brlcad
17:50.51hippieindamakin8i was just wondering how would i test the routine
17:51.06brlcadwhich routine?
17:51.40hippieindamakin8the bot to nmg
17:54.41hippieindamakin8http://dpaste.com/42430/
17:54.59brlcadahh, cool
17:55.19hippieindamakin8any pointers ?
17:55.20brlcadprobably the easiest is to just write a little driver test application
17:56.13brlcadthat function takes an rt_bot_internal, which is obtained through an rt_db_internal, which can be obtained by doing a db_lookup() iirc
17:56.21brlcadhunts for an example
17:56.41hippieindamakin8ohk
18:00.11brlcadokay, looks like madant actually has an nice little test for libpc work
18:00.18brlcadlook in src/util/pc_test.c
18:01.07brlcadit's doing a couple things you don't need, but much of it applies
18:01.27hippieindamakin8ohk thanks :)
18:01.55brlcadyou'll call db_open() instead of wdb_open()  (first is for read/write, the second is write-only)
18:01.57hippieindamakin8btw i would want to start working on this problem  implement a routine to convert an NMG NURBS object to the newer
18:01.57hippieindamakin8<PROTECTED>
18:01.57hippieindamakin8<PROTECTED>
18:02.36brlcadafter you get a directory pointer from db_lookup(), you'll pass that dp to rt_db_get_internal()
18:03.27hippieindamakin8checks that out
18:04.26brlcadonce you have that internal pointer (ip) ...
18:04.52brlcadstruct rt_bot_internal *bot_ip = (struct rt_bot_internal *)ip->idb_ptr; RT_BOT_CK_MAGIC(bot_ip);
18:05.11brlcadthat'll convert it to a bot and validate it
18:06.25brlcadrather, validate that it's actually a 'bot' object, not validate the bot data itself
18:08.04hippieindamakin8brlcad, i ll get back to u in few moments
18:23.00``Erikponders the cost of maid service O.o
18:36.41brlcadabout 25-50/hr
18:51.47starseekerpoolio: I don't suppose there's a good tutorial on setting up dzen and conky anywhere?
18:52.07starseekeris looking at a rather imposing process to get this working "right"
19:04.34*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
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21:38.34``Erikholy oh-wow
21:39.03``Eriksomeone figured out how to make emacs not induce rsi... mapping ctrl and meta to... footpedals.
21:39.07``Erikhttp://bc.tech.coop/blog/060131.html
22:14.41Axman6ha
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23:33.32yukonbobhello, cadheads
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090510

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090510

01:26.35*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@223.Red-83-49-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
02:20.04Ralith``Erik: haha
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16:06.28*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@bz.bzflag.bz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
16:28.48*** join/#brlcad elena (n=elena@89.136.118.141)
16:30.03elenahi
18:06.24``Erikheh, nutty, 5 supercars racing, each with only a gallon of gas O.o top gear ++
18:24.43*** join/#brlcad alvaro (n=alvaro@190.77.167.45)
18:25.13alvarowhich is the qcad channel ?
18:27.42elenai don't see it in this servel list.
18:28.17alvarois #qcad ?
18:28.44elenatry it. it didn't show up in my listing.
18:29.19alvarocan i get qcad support here?
18:29.50elenai don't know what it is. maybe others do.
18:30.13elenai've seen some forums about qcad-brlcad integration.
18:30.45alvaroqcad and brl cad should be integrated...
18:33.18alvarois there a command like offset in qcad ?
18:57.57*** part/#brlcad alvaro (n=alvaro@190.77.167.45)
19:21.36``Erik/t BRL-CAD - NOT qcad, tyvm
19:21.38``Erik:D
19:21.58*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
19:22.05elenatoo late. he's gone.
19:22.46``ErikI know, thus my willingness to be so glib
19:22.59``Erik*shineyhappyfaceforthepople*
19:23.17elena:)
19:23.23``Erikpeople, even
19:25.02``Erikhow is your model repo thing going? still exploring the technologies and preparing? I knwo you submitted last year but went with another project, I imagine you have a good grasp of the situation as it relates to your proposal?
19:25.45elenait's going ok.
19:26.07elenayes. i did. and actually it was a good thing i didn't get in last year.
19:26.23elenai got a change to learn more about brlcad meanwhile.
19:26.50``Erikok, for the technical side, we're going with a mentor "pool", and I'm listed as unattached/admin, *shrug* let me know how I can help. your success is our success :D
19:27.22elenathank you. I'll "bookmark" you ;)
19:27.37``Erikas long as you don't "favorite" me O.o
19:27.47elenahow was your weekend?
19:28.02``Erikbusy, much cleaning of the domicile
19:28.34``ErikI received "lisp in small pieces" on thursday and haven't had a chance to really sit down with it :(
19:28.53``Erikyours?
19:29.11elenaseems like better than yours :)
19:29.38elenadid you moved recently?
19:29.54elenaor just scheduled cleaning.
19:29.54pacman87waves to elena and ``Erik
19:29.56``ErikI'd hope so, given that you have the ability to hop a light rail and go get 'exotic' food and beer O:-)
19:30.02elenahi pacman
19:30.29pacman87i'm the 'new primitives' gsocer
19:31.23``Erikmake-up cleaning for a long period of squalor, preparing to sell it
19:31.25pacman87my weekend was spend coding a pipelined implemnation of the LC3b
19:31.33``Erik'LC3b'?
19:31.53pacman87yeah, really minimal instruction set for teaching purposes
19:32.02``Erik(please make good _tess routines, my adrt/isst work is all BoT)
19:32.07pacman87only 14 instructions
19:32.11``Erikah
19:32.30``ErikI wrote a 'brainfuck' interpreter/compiler suite for fundamental optimization research, that's fun stuff :)
19:32.38pacman87lol
19:33.00pacman87i finished my tetris in assembly this week, ended up ~3k when assembled
19:33.10``Erikwhich arch/os?
19:33.13pacman876811
19:33.22elenaisn't tetris the enemy of pacman ?
19:33.28``Erikno os? raw? what vidoe and input hw?
19:33.46``Erik(and why not 6812? we may've discussed this, but I may not have been very sober)
19:33.51pacman87input is four switches, output is a 128x64 px LCD panel
19:34.01``Erikum, I2C lcd?
19:34.07pacman87because we were given 681's
19:34.13``Erikah, classwork? :D
19:34.32pacman87yeah
19:34.38pacman876811's *
19:34.43``Erik<-- still curious about how the lcd is wired pu
19:34.46``Erikup
19:34.55pacman87no, i put the LCD on the memory bus
19:35.01pacman87we used an external 8K eeprom
19:35.08``Erikhm
19:35.14``Eriknice
19:35.17``ErikEE class? :)
19:35.32pacman87i had to switch out the crystal from 8 to 4 MHz to run at 1 MHz so the LCD could keep up
19:35.38``Erikhehehhe
19:35.40pacman87yeah, embedded systems
19:36.03pacman87i also had to write my own 3x5 pixel font
19:36.21``Erikawesome :) when I did my CS coursework many many years ago, anything that involved touching physical low level hw was an 'ee' class over in the physics dept... at least we still did C and asm back then :)
19:36.49pacman87yeah, i designed the whole thing from the circuit board on up
19:36.53pacman87:D
19:37.23``Erikimpressive :)
19:37.56``Erik<-- been half tempted to buy a 68040 and build a crude unix box ground up, so has an idea of the sheer awesomeness of what ya did
19:42.37``Erikbtw, pacman, grab a camera and show us pics of your masterpiece ;)
19:46.53*** join/#brlcad elena (n=elena@89.136.118.141)
19:58.42``Eriksomeone is bbq'ing pig
20:00.32*** join/#brlcad andax (n=andax__@d213-102-40-38.cust.tele2.ch)
20:02.12*** join/#brlcad andax_ (n=andax__@d213-102-40-38.cust.tele2.ch)
20:07.54pacman87``Erik: i would take pics, but i haven't gotten moto4lin working in KDE4 yet to get them off my phone
20:08.43pacman87after i finish coding this, i'll reboot into an install with KDE3
20:09.09elenais leaving.
20:09.12elenabye
20:09.16``Erik<-- never liked kde, was alwys a gnome weenie
20:09.23``Erikhave a nice evening, elena :)
20:09.28elenathanks.
20:09.39pacman87farewell
20:09.55elenaI liked kde3 better than gnome. now i like gnome better than kde4.
20:10.12pacman87``Erik: i'm the opposite (kde vs gnome)
20:11.16``ErikI first used gnome 0.10, after learning qt... there were severe weaknesses in qt at the time, and the first kde that came around was... pathetic... throw in that gcc2.7 sucked at c++ and took forever on a 120mhz 48m machine, ... :) I turned into a hardcore C gtk/gnome beeyotch
20:11.42``Erikevery time I try qt/kde, it takes effin' forever to compile and just feels all 'wrong'
20:11.51``Eriktrying too much to be like windows to me
20:12.11pacman87grew up with windows, doen't know any better
20:12.16pacman87doesn't *
20:12.27``Erikthat gnucash via macports requires aqbanking, which requires qt3... that pisses me off. A lot.
20:12.57``Erikah, I got hooked on 'puters before msdos was popular :) I look for the os that sucks least in my view, winderz has never been anywhere in the running
20:12.59pacman87my first install was slackware 10
20:13.08``Erikheh
20:13.18pacman87i remember ms-dos shell
20:13.25``ErikI have a stack of color coded floppy disks from slackware 2.0
20:13.46pacman87then win 3.1
20:14.07pacman87i still have the windows entertainment pack floppy
20:14.13``Eriktried to grab a different color fo reach disk set, then wrote (in pencil) the set and number... intended to re-use them, didn't wnat to waste a label
20:14.16pacman8716 bit apps
20:14.36``Erikhm, 6811 is fun, but I bloodied myself on 6502 :(
20:14.42pacman87so i got an integer overflow in the high score table for tetris
20:14.47``Erikand 6510
20:15.13``Eriksteal another bite, on overflow, inc the new byte and clear the old one
20:15.16``Erikbyte
20:15.35``Erikthen mush them together for highscore
20:15.35pacman87not my tetris, the windows tetris :P
20:15.37``Erikoh
20:15.39``Erikhah
20:15.39``Erik:D
20:15.49``Erikthought you meant your 68HC11 beastie
20:15.55``Erikassumes an HC
20:16.03pacman87strangely enough, the negative scores are still at the top of the list
20:16.06pacman87yeah, HC
20:16.17``Eriksort must be unsigned
20:16.26pacman87yeah
20:16.49``Eriksimple bit radix sort will do that
20:16.51brlcadfinishes giving elle a bath and removing her bonnet
20:16.58pacman87it's disappointing that XP x64 can't run them
20:17.07pacman87cause they dropped 16 bit support
20:17.59``Erikheh, or unsigned short vs %d/%u confusion
20:18.06``ErikO.O
20:18.12``Erikoh
20:18.16``Erikthe orange thing
20:18.46``Erikbrlcad, drive about 30 minutes up 1... then pick me up and take me to the package store. :D
20:18.58``Erik*duck*
20:19.00brlcadheh
20:19.04brlcadno.
20:19.16``Erikfeigns surprise
20:20.58``Erik(ya'll remembered to call your mothers, right?)
20:23.13*** join/#brlcad morricone_ (n=morricon@d60-65-207-181.col.wideopenwest.com)
20:23.40morricone_is the solid modeling about modeling matter?
20:24.21morricone_anyone know anything about QCad
20:24.48morricone_and how to digitize images to get coordinate values of the lines traced out
20:25.05morricone_kind of modeling geometry not solids
20:25.09morricone_but still the same
20:25.20``Eriksoooorta, in a solid model, ever bit of geometry has a physical presense in space and can be queried for things like mass.... qcad seems to be a 2d drafting program more than anything else
20:25.43morricone_i m looking for a certain function
20:25.54``Erikthat function being?
20:26.06morricone_and open office org doesnt allow images to be in the chart windows
20:26.29morricone_laying down points on an image configured in on a coordinate plane
20:26.48morricone_and then extracting the geometric data in the form of x,y
20:26.56morricone_and inputting it into open offie
20:26.58morricone_office
20:26.59morricone_*
20:27.17morricone_i cant seem to find the program that will do that for me
20:27.23``Eriklike... converting a raster image into a vector image?
20:27.31morricone_yes
20:27.44morricone_but i want the data
20:27.53morricone_so i can model the physics in spreadsheet
20:27.59``Erikthat's more of a 2d manipulation, not a cad/cam/cae issue
20:28.34morricone_you ever heard of it being a function in an open source program list?
20:28.38morricone_any
20:29.02morricone_it is easy with AutoCAd
20:29.06morricone_and excel
20:29.18morricone_the terrible ms programs i know so well
20:29.21``Erikit's not a thing I follow, sorry... I know the 'sorbel' edge detection algo is simple abd public, I'd imagine it could easily be walked to find basic splines
20:29.31``Erikbut it's just not my scene, I'm sorry
20:29.44morricone_no problemo
20:29.58morricone_i m sure resolution will occur if i presist
20:30.04``Erikmebbe "gimp" has a fu to make it happen
20:30.15morricone_i ll check that out
20:30.36*** part/#brlcad morricone_ (n=morricon@d60-65-207-181.col.wideopenwest.com)
20:31.03``Erikhopes he didn't steer that guy wrong
20:34.02andaxgimp has a smart edge detection feature, if that helps
20:34.55``Erikdude's gone *shrug* I only know sorbel cuz I implemented it for shits and giggles one afternoon
20:35.44andaxi dont know if it can write to .dxf files or such, anyway...
20:46.30*** join/#brlcad alvaro (n=alvaro@190.77.167.45)
20:50.22alvarohow do i start brlcad when you install it from binary  tar.gz ?
20:50.58alvaro[root@alvaro-edicta-host bin]# /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
20:50.58alvaro/usr/brlcad/bin/mged: error while loading shared libraries: libstdc++.so.5: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
20:50.58alvaro[root@alvaro-edicta-host bin]#
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20:56.04``Erikmeans you don't have the same libc++ that it was compiled against
20:56.13``Erikyour best bet is probably to compile it from scratch, sorry :(
20:57.10alvarois it difficult to compile it?
20:58.03alvarowhere are the instrucions to do  it ?
21:00.00``Erikum, untar the source, go into the dir, do "./compile --enable all && make install" and that's it
21:00.37alvaroseems easy ..... (too much to be true)
21:02.31alvarowhere are the sources?
21:03.19pacman87~cadsvn
21:03.19ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
21:04.03pacman87although you might want the latest release instead of svn
21:04.44``Eriksame place you downloaded the binary, except it says "source" instead of "linux x86-32"
21:05.24alvaroi think thi is: http://sourceforge.net/project/downloading.php?group_id=105292&filename=brlcad-7.14.6.tar.gz&a=28288066
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22:17.12*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090511

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090511

01:21.37*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-199.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
02:18.25*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
02:58.55*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=pacman87@resnet-46-40.dorm.utexas.edu)
06:56.37starseeker``Erik: sounds like that guy might have wanted digitizer:  http://digitizer.sourceforge.net/
07:19.17Mike111.
07:19.56Mike111.
07:20.00*** part/#brlcad Mike111 (n=mike@cadil21.kaist.ac.kr)
07:20.06*** join/#brlcad Mike111 (n=mike@cadil21.kaist.ac.kr)
07:20.56Mike111hi all
07:20.56*** join/#brlcad _clock_ (n=_sushi_@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
07:22.44Mike111can anyone help with building on Debian Lenny?
07:40.42*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14EA9B.dip.t-dialin.net)
08:02.25*** join/#brlcad dreeves__ (n=dreeves@64.178.177.71)
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10:19.31*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
10:35.36Mike111.
10:38.19Mike111Please note I was not logging the channel on the weekend so apologies if someone had replied to my question, but please reply again. Thanks - Mike.
10:38.23hippieindamakin8Mike111, hey
10:38.32Mike111hi hippie
10:38.43hippieindamakin8Mike111, what seems to be problem out there ?
10:39.16Mike111unable to compile 7.14.6 on Debian Lenny
10:39.53hippieindamakin8ohh whats the error ?
10:40.18Mike111make[2]: Entering directory `/home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/bwish'
10:40.18Mike111/bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --tag=CC  --silent --mode=link gcc -I../../src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/unix -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3  -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -o btclsh btclsh-cmd.o btclsh-input.o btclsh-main.o btclsh-tcl.o ../../src/libtclcad/libtclcad.la ../../src/libdm/libdm.la ../../src/other/incrTcl/libitk.la
10:40.18Mike111../../src/other/incrTcl/libitcl.la -L../../src/other/tk/unix -ltk8.5 -L../../src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -ldl -lm ../../src/libtermio/libtermio.la
10:40.18Mike111../../src/libtclcad/.libs/libtclcad.so: undefined reference to `X24_close_existing'
10:40.20Mike111../../src/libtclcad/.libs/libtclcad.so: undefined reference to `_X24_open_existing'
10:40.22Mike111../../src/libtclcad/.libs/libtclcad.so: undefined reference to `X24_interface'
10:40.24Mike111collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
10:40.28Mike111make[2]: *** [btclsh] Error 1
10:40.31Mike111make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/bwish'
10:40.33Mike111make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
10:40.34Mike111make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src'
10:40.36Mike111make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
10:40.47Mike111these are the last few lines from `make' just before it exists with an error
10:40.48hippieindamakin8Mike111, can u dpaste it if u have more
10:41.14Mike111what is dpaste?
11:09.42hippieindamakin8tcl libs
11:16.45Mike111brclad: I've tried building 7.14.6 again. First removed configure, config.status and config.cache* and ran autogen.sh, followed by ./configure and naje
11:16.49Mike111sorry make
11:17.07Mike111here is the last few lines from make where it reports the error:
11:17.38Mike111Making all in brlman
11:17.39Mike111make[2]: Entering directory `/home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/brlman'
11:17.39Mike111make[2]: Nothing to be done for `all'.
11:17.39Mike111make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/brlman'
11:17.39Mike111Making all in burst
11:17.39Mike111make[2]: Entering directory `/home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/burst'
11:17.41Mike111make[2]: Nothing to be done for `all'.
11:17.45Mike111make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/burst'
11:17.47Mike111Making all in bwish
11:17.49Mike111make[2]: Entering directory `/home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/bwish'
11:17.52Mike111/bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --tag=CC  --silent --mode=link gcc -I../../src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/unix -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g  -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -o btclsh btclsh-cmd.o btclsh-input.o btclsh-main.o btclsh-tcl.o ../../src/libtclcad/libtclcad.la ../../src/libdm/libdm.la ../../src/other/incrTcl/libitk.la ../../sr
11:17.56Mike111c/other/incrTcl/libitcl.la -L../../src/other/tk/unix -ltk8.5 -L../../src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -ldl -lm ../../src/libtermio/libtermio.la
11:17.59Mike111../../src/libtclcad/.libs/libtclcad.so: undefined reference to `X24_close_existing'
11:18.01Mike111../../src/libtclcad/.libs/libtclcad.so: undefined reference to `_X24_open_existing'
11:18.03Mike111../../src/libtclcad/.libs/libtclcad.so: undefined reference to `X24_interface'
11:18.06Mike111collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
11:18.07Mike111make[2]: *** [btclsh] Error 1
11:18.09Mike111make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/bwish'
11:18.11Mike111make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
11:18.15Mike111make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src'
11:18.17Mike111make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
11:18.19Mike111I'm logging the channel now so you if you reply I'll your response when I return. Thanks for your help.
11:19.32d-lolooks like the linker can't find your X24 libs...
11:21.05Mike111hi d-lo: thanks for the prompt reply. I need to go now. if you have any ideas please message me or the channel and I'll catch up on these when I come up in the morning. Cheers
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12:22.57starseekerMike111: if you need to paste large content like that use http://pastebin.bzflag.bz
13:18.19*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-199.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
13:27.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34487 10/rt^3/trunk/src/coreInterface/Ellipsoid.cpp: ws changes only
13:45.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34488 10/rt^3/trunk/ (11 files in 2 dirs): operator new may throw a std::bad_alloc exception
13:47.55``Erikgrar.
13:48.06``Erikinteresting to see the guts of the front of my house
13:48.12``Eriknothing surprising, just... different
13:49.23d-loquick... run some cat5e/6
13:49.36``Erikheh, up the front? screw that
13:50.06``ErikI hate a small bundle down in the back of the lowest floor, everythign else is 802.11b/g atm
13:50.17``Erikunfortunately, that lone b turns every g into a b
13:51.00d-lowhats the offender?  A nic?  Bridge?  Access point?
13:51.15``ErikI believe an old ibook and the wap
13:51.52``ErikI might decomission/hock the old laptop, but that'd leave the wap, which is 7 yrs old
13:52.00``Erik$50 for 7 yrs isn't too bad
13:52.28``ErikIwantmydamncarback. they're saying thursday-ish
13:52.35``Erikfucking 2 months
13:53.04``Erikthis fucking rental floats, has no road feel, has no clutch, is all skunked up from smokers, ... sucks
13:53.14d-loouch.  Prognosis on repairs?  She'll be just like new or ?
13:53.17``Erikand the additional culpability it brings, effin' a
13:53.34``Erikyeah, they're worry points are tread depth if I get a new tire...
13:53.40``Erikhalf the car is being repainted though
13:53.52``Eriktheir
13:54.13d-losame color right?  =D
13:54.23``ErikI'll grill them heavier after the new rim/tire is fitted and they put it all together and align it
13:54.25``Erikyeah
13:54.51``Erikas fun as the attention the laguna seca car brought, I've decided I don't want to stand out that much
13:54.57``Erikless huffing of ricer nos fumes
13:55.18``ErikI don't WANT to race your little ford assprobe with "the kit", I just want to get home and watch the simpsons, fucktard
13:55.28d-lotee hee.
13:55.50``ErikI think brlcad gets off on it, I got tired of it
13:56.02d-loNothing as awesome as a Neon with a killer muffler, huge spoiler and two difference colored doors 'cause they can't afford the paint job yet. :)
13:56.21``Erikhehhee
13:56.26``Erikthe wing, man
13:56.28``Erikit's all about the wing
13:56.52d-loyeah, add downforce in the rear on a front wheel drive == pure genious.
13:56.53``Erikyeah, the car is front drive, so that downforce is technically air friction plus increased rear tire friction, but... uhhhhh, it's all about the wing
13:57.22``ErikI made you look at the 'k-car' site, right?
13:57.31d-lonegative ghost rider
13:57.37``Erikdude took an 80's dodge K frame car, uh
13:57.43``Erikhas it running 8 second quarters
13:57.49``Erikand it looks like a grannymobile
13:58.18``Erikguys also smoking camaros and mustangs with an 80's minivan
13:58.25``Erikhttp://www.thedodgegarage.com/  check out the reliant
13:58.41``Erik10, not 8 :(
13:58.48``Erikmebbe it was one of his beasts that took to the 8's
13:59.28``Erikgiven that any street car under 100k is in the 13's, a 10s car is zomfg
14:01.37d-loahahahahhahaha.  Checking out the bag of ice bungeed to the intercooler in the suped up minivan.  AHAHAHAHAAHAHA
14:02.08``Erik:D
14:02.17``Erikdude is all go and no show
14:02.27d-lothats so ghetto its awesome....
14:02.54``ErikI'd sit next to that dude before any ricer
14:03.19``Erik<-- fan of the sleeper
14:04.17d-loI saw a reference to Cecil county.. they in MD?
14:04.24``Erikno, he's way up north
14:04.31``Erikbut he drives down for the cecil county track
14:04.44``Erikboggled me at first
14:07.20``Erik(way up like cecil involves a hotel way up)
14:08.30``Erikloves the tech of it all
14:17.26d-loah ha!  I forgot its Free Redbox Movie day.  Sweet.
14:52.47*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14EA9B.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:14.26*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
15:18.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34489 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (ged_private.h pscale.c scale_ell.c scale_tor.c): Included rtgeom.h in ged_private.h, modified the signatures of ged_scale_ell() and ged_scale_tor() (i.e. removed matp_t parameter). Also fixed pscale (it wasn't working when matrices were found along the path).
15:45.48*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@98.227.157.38)
15:46.00d-loNow there's a shock.  My highschool band teacher just won Mrs Arizona.... http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/04/24/20090424gl-dvbeauty0424-ON.html
15:50.15hippieindamakin8d-lo, woah u had hot teachers :)
15:50.45d-loI always knew she was pretty, nice and an awesome music teacher... but damn... who knew...
15:53.52hippieindamakin8when my school had to do budget cuts the music teacher was one of the ones fired and there was no music class in high school
15:54.27d-lothats a growing trend.  Sad really.
15:57.21*** join/#brlcad Mouette (n=chatzill@fw1.phys.sinica.edu.tw)
16:01.29d-loIn fact, I would say that music education had a significantly bigger impact on shaping my life than sports did.
16:33.16brlcadis humorously reminded of office space with this pic: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3620/3434141027_6899d20fb7_b.jpg
17:09.37brlcadwow.. what a tetris performance .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwC544Z37qo
17:14.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34490 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Modify ArcherCore::loadMenu to select snode.
17:19.50d-lobrlcad: simply amazing.  Although I do wonder howmany life opportunities were missed out while he was practicing... heh.  I'd imagine a few of those opportunities had nice racks too ;)
17:46.26``Eriknice, dlo, how can you avoid the "hot for teacher" cameo?
18:23.36d-lowho's avoiding it? :)
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19:24.21*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
19:25.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34491 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Add code for editing EHY's in libged and Archer.
19:54.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34492 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: need to force compilation of step off if there are no parsers/lexers found since there is a parser in libexpress. avoids compile-time failure on minimal systems.
20:03.35*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177679958.dsl.bell.ca)
20:18.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34493 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: all -build options should default to 'auto', including step. if the user specifically requested step and parser/lexer aren't present, abort.
20:18.21``Erik*sigh*
20:18.34``ErikI hate when that file is changed.
20:19.11brlcadcackles
20:26.11brlcadwoot, PTC sales fell 44% compared to Q2FY08
20:26.36``Erikptc?
20:26.41brlcadpro/e
20:26.45``Erikah
20:26.56``Erikso... uh, who's next?
20:27.18``ErikI think this dude is listening to ... rush limbaugh?
20:27.24brlcadthey're no longer one of the "top 5" that are billion+ CAD companies
20:27.48brlcadwill drop (just) under a billion this year if projection holds
20:28.14``Eriky'know, I'm an awfully soft dude... but, uh, when the dude came to fix my window and wanted to convert me... no sale... and now, the guy fixing my front door... rush limbaugh? really?
20:28.40``ErikI'm gonna effin' bitchslap ericE for this
20:28.46brlcadprobably just thought you had a purdy mouth
20:33.38``Erikyeh, I do sure have a purdy mouth
20:44.19starseekerbrlcad: so who are the top five now?
20:44.58brlcadwell they're still probably #5
20:45.44brlcadbut the top five were all billion+ so was considered a 'club'/mafia/elitism
20:45.54starseekerah
20:50.03brlcadautodesk, dassault, siemens, and ptc
20:50.18brlcadit was four, not five .. unless I'm forgetting someone
20:50.36*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@223.Red-83-49-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
20:52.06brlcad2.4b, 1.2b, 1.1b, and now .9b respectively if projection holds .. rough estimates
20:53.46``Erikimages us gov't has at least a b to its name
20:53.54``Erikfor a wee bit, anyways
20:54.25brlcadeh, try 3.6t
20:55.45brlcadgood grief this rebuild is taking fooooreeeverrr
20:58.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34494 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/mirror.c: odd ws snuckage
20:59.40brlcadanyone else have a clean debian/ubuntu box handy?  this one I'm using is really slow -- trying to make sure Mike111's bug is fixed for this source release
21:01.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34495 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob sneaks in support for ehy interactive editing in archer along with that which was added for arb8, tor, and ell.
21:13.15CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34496 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: update the version before updating the changelog so the change is recorded
21:17.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34497 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 5 dirs): final release steps, bump patch revision for the 7.14.8 release
21:26.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34498 10/brlcad/trunk/ChangeLog: changes since the last release, through 2009-04-03
21:37.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34499 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: collapse the distcheck step with the build step to reduce the number of release steps back down to 15. making the minimum regression tests copypasteable.
21:56.55*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14EA9B.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:02.27starseekerhmm - gqa has problems with grid specification
22:03.03starseekerg_qa -Ao -g1-0.1 ktank.g tank
22:03.54CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34500 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: bc_ vars are the user's specification of the build. the build_brlcad_ vars are our evaluated results of whether to build or not. config subdirs needs to use the latter else dist problems enwrath
22:04.05starseekerI think the issue is it's not getting to any of its termination cases, but I'm not sure why yet
22:09.19brlcadg_qa needs to identify itself and report what it's going to do before it does it
22:09.29brlcadthe output now is pretty inpenetrable
22:09.57starseekernods
22:10.14brlcad-v is mildly useless
22:10.36brlcadthe overlap list is the only part that looks to be semiclean
22:11.30brlcadit terminated with -g 1.0mm .. but took like 10x the default
22:11.43brlcadI suspect making it .1 means it'll be 10-20 min
22:13.58brlcadactually, not quite that bad: real    2m58.831s
22:14.11brlcadthat was with: g_qa -v -Ao -g 1.0mm-0.1mm ktank.g tank
22:14.25starseekerah, so it did eventually terminate
22:14.45brlcadseems about right .. just kicked up the number of rays really fast
22:14.53starseekerok, nevermind
22:14.54brlcadremember they're ^3
22:15.06starseekerfeedback would be nice...
22:15.29brlcadso 10x on the grid is .. 100x more per view, 300x overall
22:17.27starseekeryeah, I see it now
22:17.54brlcadupdate TODO, couple tasks
22:18.10brlcadfeedback at a minimum
22:18.38starseekerabort ability would also be nice
22:18.40brlcadidentification header to let you know it's working
22:18.55brlcadhm?
22:18.58brlcadctrl-c ? :)
22:19.01starseekeryep
22:19.01brlcadoh you mean in mged
22:22.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34501 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: Add note on g_qa usability improvements needed in TODO
23:10.51*** join/#brlcad alvaro1 (n=alvaro@190.77.167.45)
23:24.26alvaro1configure: error: *** compiler cannot create working executables, check config.log ***
23:24.43brlcaddid you check config.log? :)
23:25.44alvaro1can i pastre it here?
23:27.46alvaro1[root@alvaro-edicta-host brlcad-7.14.6]# ./configure --enable-optimized > a
23:28.00alvaro1configure: WARNING: X11 support is enabled but the Xi library was not found.
23:28.00alvaro1configure: WARNING: This will likely result in a build failure.
23:28.00alvaro1configure: WARNING: See config.log for details why (look for this comment)
23:28.00alvaro1configure: WARNING: The floating point implementation does not seem to be IEEE 754
23:28.00alvaro1configure: WARNING: compliant.  The behavior of htond and htonf may be incorrect.
23:28.01alvaro1configure: error: *** compiler cannot create working executables, check config.log ***
23:28.03alvaro1[root@alvaro-edicta-host brlcad-7.14.6]#
23:29.04brlcadeh
23:29.18brlcadyou misunderstand something
23:29.30brlcadthat is not the config.log
23:29.44brlcadyou redirected most of the configure output to a file named 'a'
23:29.51brlcadso you only see what went to stderr
23:30.19brlcadwhich is all hopefully informative but still irrelevant to towards "check config.log"
23:35.22alvaro1i am triying to paste config.log but it is too big
23:49.02*** join/#brlcad alvaro1 (n=alvaro@190.77.167.45)
23:49.50alvaro1brlcad can you give you email ?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090512

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090512

00:11.43*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-199.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
00:16.56brlcadalvaro1: read the config.log file, scan to the end
00:17.23alvaro1i am not that good in programming
00:17.30brlcadit's not a mysterious file, you just have to read what it says :)
00:17.37brlcadit has nothing to do with programming
00:17.44brlcadit's just a text log file
00:18.22alvaro1configure:28165: gcc -o conftest   -I/usr/local/include -L/usr/local/lib conftest.c -lm   >&5
00:18.22alvaro1conftest.c:37: warning: conflicting types for built-in function 'cos'
00:18.33brlcadkeep going
00:19.14alvaro1configure:28116: }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
00:19.14alvaro1configure:28118: WARNING: X11 support is enabled but the Xi library was not found.
00:19.14alvaro1configure:28120: WARNING: This will likely result in a build failure.
00:19.14alvaro1configure:28122: WARNING: See config.log for details why (look for this comment)
00:19.14alvaro1configure:28124: {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{
00:19.14alvaro1configure:28135: checking for cos in -lm
00:19.16alvaro1configure:28165: gcc -o conftest   -I/usr/local/include -L/usr/local/lib conftest.c -lm   >&5
00:19.18alvaro1conftest.c:37: warning: conflicting types for built-in function 'cos'
00:19.20alvaro1configure:28171: $? = 0
00:19.22alvaro1configure:28175: test -z
00:19.24alvaro1<PROTECTED>
00:19.26alvaro1configure:28178: $? = 0
00:19.27brlcadstop pasting :)
00:19.28alvaro1configure:28181: test -s conftest
00:19.30alvaro1configure:28184: $? = 0
00:19.32alvaro1configure:28197: result: yes
00:19.34alvaro1configure:28206: checking for regcomp in -lc
00:19.36alvaro1configure:28236: gcc -o conftest   -I/usr/local/include -L/usr/local/lib conftest.c -lc   >&5
00:19.38alvaro1configure:28242: $? = 0
00:19.40alvaro1configure:28246: test -z
00:19.48brlcadthe file has thousands of lines for tons of tests
00:20.03brlcadyou need to find where it stopped, it'll say why
00:20.11brlcadso scan down towards the end
00:20.29brlcadlook for "compiler cannot create working executables"
00:21.17brlcadthose other WARNING lines are important too, but they're certainly not the ones halting the build
00:22.24alvaro1i found it http://fpaste.org/paste/11705
00:22.41brlcadgreat
00:22.48brlcadnow look at the lines that preceed it
00:22.54brlcadit ran some test and it failed
00:23.20brlcadmight be immediately before, might be several dozen before
00:25.35alvaro1http://fpaste.org/paste/11706
00:25.40alvaro1must be here
00:26.32brlcadand you are correct
00:26.37brlcadso what's the problem?
00:27.13alvaro1the heaader is wrong
00:27.17brlcadnope
00:27.32alvaro1/* confdefs.h.  */
00:27.36brlcadwhat does line 1 say it's doing
00:28.54alvaro1checking g++ compiler and flags for sanity
00:29.05brlcadright
00:29.14brlcadso it's going to make sure the compiler works
00:29.33brlcadline 2 is the command it runs to test if the compiler works
00:29.44brlcadthen what happens?
00:31.01alvaro1so the problem is the compiler
00:31.13alvaro1or headers
00:31.51brlcaddon't jump .. what happened after it tried to run that command it showed on line 2 ?
00:32.27brlcadread line 3
00:33.44alvaro1i must install g++
00:34.13brlcad:)
00:34.45brlcad"compiler cannot create working executables" .. because you don't even have the compiler
00:35.50alvaro1arm-gp2x-linux-gcc-c++.i386 : Cross Compiling GNU G++ targeted at arm-gp2x-linux
00:35.50alvaro1avr-gcc-c++.i386 : Cross Compiling GNU GCC targeted at avr
00:36.00alvaro1can i use any of those?
00:36.46brlcaddepends on your hardware -- do you have arm or avr?
00:37.00alvaro1do not have a clue ...
00:37.04brlcadheh
00:37.13brlcadwell then it sounds like it's a no probably
00:37.23brlcadwhat's your os?
00:37.30alvaro1f10
00:37.42alvaro1fedora 10
00:37.44brlcadhow do you normally install software?
00:37.49alvaro1yum
00:38.21brlcadtry just: yum install gcc-c++
00:38.51brlcador yum install g++
00:39.11alvaro1<PROTECTED>
00:39.15brlcadbut I suspect just yum install gcc-c++
00:39.19brlcadthat looks like it
00:39.50alvaro1brlcad: thanks
00:39.56brlcadno problem
00:40.39alvaro1if it runs can i upload it to  the home page of brlcad
00:41.03brlcadonly if you go through all the steps to make a proper yum package :)
00:41.35brlcadand/or a proper rpm
00:41.57brlcadthere are dozens if not hundreds of tutorials on how to make an rpm
00:42.09brlcadquick web search is a wealth of knowledge
00:42.21brlcadyou could certainly become the rpm maintainer, though :)
00:43.15alvaro1i thought  only as an "copy to /usr"  version
00:44.55brlcadmm, that's possible too, though you'll have to build with specific configure options and create some symlinks
00:45.07brlcadand build from a tagged version
00:45.31alvaro1<PROTECTED>
00:45.56brlcadactually it's not
00:46.05brlcadjust sounds easier because there are tutorials
00:46.19brlcadyou'd still have to go through the same steps, specific configure options
00:46.27brlcadpart of release management
00:46.44brlcadso the settings on distributions are consistent
00:47.31brlcad``Erik: heh, now *this* build is going to take a long time.... on a Linksys NSLU2
00:48.11brlcadabout 2/3rds the speed of an old SGI O2, 32MB memory .. been compiling all day and it's still in the middle of openNURBS :)
00:50.14alvaro1http://fpaste.org/paste/11708 it seems to be built
00:51.00alvaro1brlcad: http://fpaste.org/paste/11708
00:53.02brlcadcurious, why do you redirect output to 'a'?
00:54.28brlcadthe most important warning there is the first one, that the Xi library was not found -- you need to install that
00:54.39alvaro1http://fpaste.org/paste/11709 here is a
00:54.50brlcadI don't want 'a'
00:54.56brlcadI want to know why you redirect to 'a'
00:55.55alvaro1because the terminal has not enough buffer capabilities, and in order to keep it all i redirect it to a
00:56.18brlcadokay, fair enough
00:57.03brlcadif you want to capture all output together, you can do this:  ./configure --enable-optimized > a 2>&1
00:57.23brlcadthat "2>&1" will put the stderr with the stdout like you see when the command is run without a redirect
00:57.27brlcadthat can be done for any command
00:57.35brlcadjust so you know
00:57.53brlcadso install libXi and you should hopefully be good to go
00:58.04brlcad(rerun configure to verify that the warning goes away)
00:58.49alvaro1i already tiped "make"
00:59.04alvaro1it is running "make"
00:59.43alvaro1is libXi important ?
01:03.01Mike111hi brlcad
01:03.47Mike111I've looked at the channel log. any luck tracing the problem I've got?
01:07.12*** join/#brlcad Mike111 (n=mike@cadil21.kaist.ac.kr)
01:12.07*** join/#brlcad Mike111 (n=mike@cadil21.kaist.ac.kr)
01:12.30brlcadMike111: did you try that 'make CFLAGS...' I suggested a couple days ago?
01:12.44brlcadalvaro1: what did the warning say?
01:12.55brlcad(don't paste it, read it) :)
01:13.14Mike111brlcad: you mean the one with the burst?
01:13.31brlcadMike111: I don't recall exactly which directory
01:13.56brlcadbut the suggestion was to add a cflag that might have resolved the link failure
01:14.14Mike111in your email you mentioned: "cd src/
01:14.15Mike111burst && make CFLAGS=../libfb/libfb.la" and see if that makes any
01:14.15Mike111difference.
01:14.27Mike111I've tried this but am getting the same error
01:14.40brlcadexact same error?
01:14.47brlcador just failed in some other way?
01:14.54alvaro1brcad: This will likely result in a build failure.
01:15.05Mike111same error: those X_24 references
01:15.10brlcadalvaro1: so you tell me, does libXi sound important? :)
01:15.31brlcadit's "likely" that it's important, but feel free to ignore the warning :)
01:15.43alvaro1brlcad: i must stop "make"
01:15.52brlcadalvaro1: or wait for it to fail
01:15.55brlcadthen install it
01:15.58brlcadthen run make again
01:16.08brlcadMike111: okay, hm
01:16.19brlcadMike111: it's failing for you in src/burst, yes?
01:16.37alvaro1brlcad: is not a problem to interrupt make?
01:16.51brlcadalvaro1: no, you could do that too -- doesn't matter
01:17.35Mike111brlcad: I'll paste the lines again
01:17.47brlcadMike111: heh, you're doing the same as alvaro1  :)
01:18.01brlcadthe lines say, you really don't need to paste them :)
01:18.24brlcadhave to read them .. just seems foreign at first but it's actually english ;)
01:18.48Mike111Then how will you know where exactly it fails?
01:18.56Mike111if I don't paste the error outputs?
01:19.31brlcadbecause it halts where it fails, you read it, you tell me
01:20.57Mike111the last directory make entered was brlcad-7.14.6/src/bwish
01:21.22brlcadyou're welcome to *also* pastebin the output ... just really shouldn't get the (bad/common) habit of pasting when something unexpected happens _instead_ of reading the output ;)
01:21.39brlcadokay, good to know
01:21.50Mike111it then run gcc with lots of files and options and then reports ./../src/libtclcad/.libs/libtclcad.so: undefined reference to `X24_close_existing'
01:22.01brlcadnods
01:22.33brlcadI'm 70% sure that's the fault of the debian devs .. messing with libtool
01:23.01brlcadwhich leaves a lot of room for uncertainty and still doesn't fix anything for you :)
01:23.32brlcadso the issue per that message is libtclcad
01:24.01brlcadthat X24_... symbol should be coming from our libfb library but for whatever reason libtool isn't linking it in
01:24.31brlcadmore than likely it's just an ordering issue, but one fix should be to verify/force libfb to link into libtclcad
01:24.34brlcadso try this:
01:24.39brlcadcd src/libtclcad
01:25.16Mike111ok I'm there
01:27.10brlcadwhat does this report:  grep TCLCAD Makefile | grep libfb | wc
01:28.03Mike1111     218    3233
01:28.17brlcadokay, and this: grep dependency libtclcad.la
01:28.37brlcadshould be a long line
01:29.21Mike111dependency_libs=' -L/usr/local/lib -L/home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/other/tcl/unix /home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/libdm/libdm.la -L/home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/other/tk/unix -L/usr/include/xorg/lib /home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/libged/libged.la /home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/libwdb/libwdb.la /home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/librt/librt.la /home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/libbn/libbn.
01:29.21Mike111la /home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/other/libregex/libregex.la /home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/libsysv/libsysv.la /home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/other/openNURBS/libopenNURBS.la -lstdc++ -lX11 -lXext -lXi /home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/libfb/libfb.la /home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/libbu/libbu.la /home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/other/libpng/libpng.la /home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/other/l
01:29.23Mike111ibz/libz.la -lc -lpthread /home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/libpkg/libpkg.la -lnsl /home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/other/incrTcl/libitk.la /home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/other/incrTcl/libitcl.la -ltk8.5 -ltclstub8.5 -ltcl8.5 -ldl -lm'
01:30.09brlcadhm, okay that looks right
01:30.39Mike111the config.log file lists several errors:
01:30.46Mike111conftest.c:12:28: error: ac_nonexistent.h: No such file or directory
01:30.55brlcadthat's normal
01:30.58Mike111configure: failed program was:
01:30.59Mike111| /* confdefs.h.  */
01:31.02brlcadit runs thousands of tests
01:31.09Mike111ok
01:31.12brlcadsome/many are supposed to fail, some aren't
01:31.31brlcadit basically probes your environment to figure out what it looks like
01:32.10brlcad"does this look like cygwin? .. no.  does the compiler work? .. yes. .. etc"
01:32.29brlcadhundreds/thousands of tests
01:32.31Mike111It also lists that will build the tcl, tk and itcl/itk libraries although I've installed tcl8.4 and tcl8.5, tk8.4 and tk8.5 and itcl
01:32.43brlcadseparate issue, one at a time :)
01:32.51brlcadprobably because of itcl
01:33.03brlcadyou can't build itcl without also building tcl/tk
01:33.17brlcadas itcl uses (uninstalled) private tcl/tk sources
01:33.29Mike111these are the packages I've installed:
01:33.30Mike111autoconf
01:33.30Mike111bison
01:33.30Mike111byacc
01:33.31Mike111flex
01:33.31Mike111fop
01:33.31Mike111freeglut3-dev
01:33.33Mike111itcl3-dev
01:33.35Mike111jamvm
01:33.37Mike111libgl1-mesa-dev
01:33.39Mike111libglu1-mesa-dev
01:33.41Mike111libncurses5-dev
01:33.43Mike111libpng-12
01:33.45Mike111libstdc++5
01:33.47Mike111libtnt-dev
01:33.49Mike111libtool
01:33.51Mike111libx11-dev
01:33.55Mike111libxi-dev
01:33.57Mike111libxslt1-dev
01:33.59Mike111libxt-dev
01:34.01brlcadway too much information
01:34.01Mike111linux-headers-2.6.26-1-all-i386
01:34.03Mike111tcl8.4-dev
01:34.05Mike111tcl8.5
01:34.07Mike111tcl8.5-dev
01:34.09Mike111tk8.4-dev
01:34.11Mike111tk8.5
01:34.13Mike111tk8.5-dev
01:34.15Mike111xorg-dev
01:34.17Mike111xserver-xorg-core
01:34.35brlcadand way too much for a channel paste
01:35.36brlcadso next step since everything looks right is to figure out what the *exact* compile line looks like
01:35.54brlcad<PROTECTED>
01:36.08Mike111ok
01:36.09brlcadrun make and make sure it fails with the symbol error
01:36.31Mike111looks like the same error
01:37.02Mike111symbol error you mean the undefined reference (like `X24_close_existing')?
01:37.29brlcadyes
01:37.43brlcadmake LIBTOOL=../../libtool
01:37.47brlcadpastebin that output
01:38.47Mike111how do I pastebin?
01:39.31brlcadpastebin.bzflag.bz
01:39.57brlcad~pastebin
01:39.58ibot[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste
01:41.10Mike111so I just paste the output into that empty box and you can then view it by clicking my nickname on the left side pane?
01:41.26brlcadyou put it into the box, then provide the URL
01:43.38Mike111http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m5509c52f
01:44.36brlcadthat was what command?
01:46.37Mike111make LIBTOOL=../../libtool
01:46.52Mike111in src/bwish
01:47.12brlcadokay, bah
01:47.24brlcadmake LIBTOOL=../../libtool LIBTOOLFLAGS=
01:49.05Mike111http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m7d54a75f
01:50.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34502 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (495 files in 140 dirs): merge trunk to STABLE from r34151 through HEAD r34501 for release 7.14.8
01:52.10brlcadMike111: nm /home/mike/app/brl_cad/brlcad-7.14.6/src/libfb/.libs/libfb.so | grep X24_open_existing
01:53.45Mike111returns nothing
01:54.08brlcado.O really
01:54.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34503 10/brlcad/tags/rel-7-14-8/: tagging release 7.14.8, now with more flavor.
01:55.30starseekermore taste, less filling!
01:55.33brlcadpastebin output: grep IF_ ../libfb/Makefile
01:56.43Mike111http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m364ef031
01:57.17brlcadfinds it exceptionally humorous that it's taking about 30 minutes per file to compile on this thing
01:58.05starseekeryou're building it on a router?
01:58.25brlcadpretty much
01:58.38*** part/#brlcad alvaro1 (n=alvaro@190.77.167.45)
01:58.40brlcadMike111: grep open_existing ../libfb/*.c
02:00.02Mike111http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m63fe0734
02:00.11brlcadstarseeker: on one of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSLU2
02:00.37brlcadrunning debian, was going to try to reproduce Mike111's problem.. but it'll be a couple days before it gets to his error :)
02:01.19brlcadMike111: huh, that's really pretty odd
02:01.29brlcadthe files are all right, the routine is there, but it's not in the lib
02:01.32brlcadcd ../libfb
02:01.35brlcadrm libfb.la
02:01.38brlcadmake
02:01.41brlcadpastebin the output
02:02.39Mike111http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m3bfa7b63
02:03.49brlcadgrep -A8 '^libfb_la_CFLAGS' Makefile
02:04.49brlcadcan just paste it here
02:05.20Mike111libfb_la_CFLAGS = \
02:05.20Mike111-DIF_REMOTE \
02:05.20Mike111-DIF_AB \
02:05.21Mike111${GL_CFLAGS} \
02:05.21Mike111$(IF_X_CFLAGS) \
02:05.21Mike111$(IF_TK_CFLAGS) \
02:05.23Mike111$(IF_OGL_CFLAGS) \
02:05.25Mike111$(IF_WGL_CFLAGS) \
02:05.27Mike111${TCL_CPPFLAGS}
02:05.34brlcadcat libfb_la-if_X24.lo
02:06.17Mike111http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m34ac6a09
02:06.29brlcadnm .libs/libfb_la-if_X24.o | grep open_existing
02:07.14Mike111nothing
02:08.30brlcadpastebin your if_X24.c file
02:12.21starseekertries to figure out why all of a sudden the -S option on coil is giving invalid pipes...
02:12.23brlcadgoing to have to pick up on this later, out of time now
02:12.41brlcadstarseeker: dunno but .. BUGS! :)
02:14.02Mike111http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m27d9c9f2
02:14.02brlcadis intently being more attentive about documenting issues and ideas as they come up
02:14.24starseekerok, looks like I probably won't squash it tonight
02:14.43starseekeris more disturbed that it suddenly broke without (apparently) anything in coil changing...
02:15.21brlcadMike111: yeah, that file looks fine .. so this is basically off in truely bizzaro land without some more interactive time
02:15.47Mike111that's good news ;)
02:15.49brlcadMike111: best solution is to await the results of my build here to see if I can at least reproduce it
02:16.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34504 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: Note apparent breakage of coil -S option.
02:16.19brlcadtry: rm libfb_la-if_X24.lo && make && nm .libs/libfb_la-if_X24.o | grep open_existing
02:16.58brlcadpastebin the whole output
02:18.26Mike111http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m1f9caa5a
02:18.47brlcad!
02:19.00brlcadwtf .. okay, so the first time through, they weren't there and now they are....
02:19.29brlcadlooks like this is not a clean build, like you first compiled through with different configure options or make options
02:19.36brlcadeither way, it's there now
02:19.39brlcadcd ../bwish
02:19.39brlcadmake
02:19.43brlcadshould link
02:20.08Mike111no errors now :
02:20.10Mike111:)
02:20.20brlcadslaps Mike111 around a bit for unclean build :)
02:20.27brlcadcd ../..
02:20.27brlcadmake
02:20.33brlcadsee if it complete
02:21.03brlcadif it does not:  make distclean && sh autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-all && make
02:21.12Mike111no sure what you mean by an unclean build, but yesterday I've removed configure, configure.stat and vonfigure.cache, ran autogen.sh and then configure and make
02:21.31brlcadthat sounds probably unclean
02:21.55starseeker's first rule in situation like this - clean checkout :-)
02:21.57brlcadyou had object files in there for a different build configuration
02:23.05Mike111wouldn't removing configure, config.{stat,cache} and running autogen.sh sort of start from scratch?
02:23.32brlcadnope
02:24.16brlcad"make distclean" is "close" to starting from scratch but even that isn't exactly the same
02:24.23Mike111well, that was an advice I got on the channel, but nevermind.
02:24.40brlcadit many situations, that'll work, but it's just not the same and in this case was the problem
02:25.16brlcadsuspect you ran configure earlier and you didn't have libX11 or libXi ?
02:25.26Mike111is there something more extensive than make distclean, that is make it an absolute `clean' build?
02:25.30brlcador at least it didn't detect it
02:25.57brlcadsure, check out the sources from the repository or unpack them from a source distribution tarball
02:26.05brlcadthat's about as "clean" as it gets ;)
02:26.24brlcadfrom repository is the cleanest
02:26.38brlcadfrom a source tarball, after running make distclean
02:26.51brlcaddepends where in the build pipeline you want to end up
02:27.10Mike111so basically I need to remove the currently installed directories, download the source again and install it?
02:27.15brlcadpatiently waits for "sh autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-all --enable-optimized --prefix=/usr/brlcad/rel-7.14.8 && make distcheck && make && make install && make benchmark && make test" to complete
02:27.36Mike111I refer to using a repository
02:27.38brlcadbefore posting up a new source tarball
02:27.53brlcadthen yeah, just checking out again is the best way to go
02:28.18Mike111ok, I'll try building it now
02:28.28brlcadplease do post up a follow-up to your thread posting if it works so others are aware
02:28.42brlcadif not, try the distclean rebuild
02:29.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Grandia 07http://brlcad.org * r1439 10/wiki/Main_Page: /* Third-party Projects */
02:29.29Mike111just confirming, so now I need to run ./configure followed by make?
02:29.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Grandia 07http://brlcad.org * r1440 10/wiki/Main_Page: /* Third-party Projects */
02:31.16starseekerMike111: yes
02:32.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:Grandia]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
02:33.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1441 10/wiki/Main_Page: Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Grandia|Grandia]] ([[User talk:Grandia|Talk]]); changed back to last version by [[User:Sean|Sean]]
02:36.14Mike111how long does make run for?
02:36.28starseekerdepends on system
02:36.42starseeker20, 30 minutes or more sometimes
02:37.20Mike111in the meantime, maybe you could help me with another issue
02:39.03brlcadthat's 20-30 minutes per file if you're compiling on an XScale ;)
02:39.33Mike111how do I create a solid which is made of smoothly connected cross sections, where the cross sections are defined by polynomials (generated in another application)
02:39.34brlcadfastest I've seen is 2 minutes, average on modern desktop is around 10-20 min
02:40.23brlcadsounds like a great question for starseeker
02:40.31brlcadalas, I'm spent and gotta run, ttyl
02:40.46Mike111tnx for your help brlcad :)
02:40.48brlcaddepending on the polynomial, entirely doable
02:40.52brlcadsure, np
02:41.01Mike111I'll post a followup on the make
02:41.20brlcadthx
02:41.34starseekerMike111: primitives in BRL-CAD are described as implicits
02:41.47starseekerso your polynomials have to be expressible as a surface of a primitive
02:42.32Mike111the polynomials define only a 2-D cross section (one poly. for upper surface and one for lower surface)
02:42.33starseekerthen you constrain the intersection points of multiple primitives at the intersection points to be "smooth" via forcing derivatives to be the same at intersection points
02:42.58starseekerso... you want to extrude the 2-D cross sections?
02:43.33Mike111extrude, as I understand it, is simply copying the same cross section along an axis
02:43.43starseekerright
02:43.55Mike111I want the surface to smoothly blend from one cross section to another
02:43.55starseekerthe more general case is sweep, but that's not a primitive we have yet
02:44.30starseekerso you have a series of 2D sketches, and you want a "smooth" surface that connects one sketch to the next?
02:44.37Mike111right
02:44.55starseekererm.  sounds like an application of fillets or some such.
02:45.17starseekerI don't think we have anything that can do what you're thinking right now
02:45.44Mike111:(
02:46.02starseekeris there an example graphic online somewhere of a similar shape?
02:46.08starseekereasier to tell from that
02:47.07Mike111say for example a wing, which has one cross section (airfoil) at the tip and another airfoil at the root (where it connects to the hull)
02:47.10starseekerwonders WHY the compile on the XScale but is sorta afraid to ask...
02:47.24starseekernods
02:48.47starseekerin that case, I would use rpc or rhc primitives for sections of the leading edge of the wing
02:48.58starseekeran epa or ehy primitive to define the tip
02:49.30starseekerand more shallow rpc primitives to define the middle surface of the wing, aligning them with the edge primitives
02:49.52starseekerto ensure smoothness, you'd have to do some derivative constraints
02:50.35starseekeractually, for a wing edge you might do better with a tec primitive, come to think of it
02:51.02starseekersees if he can make a quick mockup example
02:59.46starseekerMike111: OK, take a look at this:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/wingshape.png
03:00.02starseekerit's obviously not a true wing, but it does suggest how you might get started
03:00.10starseekerthat uses two primitives
03:01.12starseekerfor a true airfoil shape you'd want something more flexible (like NURBS, which we're working on) but you could actually get a fairly decent looking wing out of combinations of those primitives
03:02.10Mike111are the cross section ellipses?
03:02.15starseekeryes
03:02.48Mike111I need to use airfoil shapes
03:03.13starseekercan you show me an example cross section?
03:03.29Mike111sure, can you hold for a moment?
03:03.33starseekeryes
03:06.11starseekerare you thinking along these lines?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PSU-90-125.PNG
03:06.40Mike111I've got a PNG file. how can I send it to you?
03:06.56starseekerum.  can you put it up on the brlcad wiki?
03:07.21starseekerhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Main_Page
03:07.58Mike111it looks similiar to the wikipedia link
03:08.01starseekerMike111: how exact does your airfoil shape have to be?
03:09.03starseekerthe airfoil can be approximated with a boolean combination of tec and ehy primitives, but it probably wouldn't be "exactly" the airfoil cross section.  
03:09.09Mike111pretty accurate. the whole purpose if to test some specific shapes so it's not just for an illustration purpose
03:09.34starseekerok.  yeah, that sounds like an application where nurbs surfaces would be required
03:10.14starseekerponders the possibility of a proc-db that does wing shapes using tec/ehy... hmm...
03:10.36starseekerMike111: for exact, continuous and complex surfaces of that sort primitives usually aren't what's needed
03:11.12starseeker(one of the reasons the automobile has modeled with NURBS for so long, for example - car body exteriors don't map well to geometric primitives)
03:11.44Mike111that makes sense. what can we do?
03:12.01starseekerwe're working on getting raytracing of NURBS working in BRL-CAD now
03:12.26Mike111I read in volume III there a b/w extrude feature for arbitrary shapes
03:12.38starseekeryes, but that's just an extrusion
03:13.04starseekerthe wing shape is curved in all three dimensions
03:13.47Mike111let say in a simpler case, where I just want to extrude along a path (without cross section changes)
03:14.07starseekerfor that, you can define a 2D sketch and extrude it
03:14.43Mike111can I extrude along a curved path?
03:14.52starseekernot currently
03:14.56starseekerthat would be sweep
03:15.40Mike111when do u expect the nurbs feature to be available?
03:16.00starseekerhard to say.  editing support will follow raytracing
03:17.38Mike111do u another opensource application which can do this now?
03:17.45Mike111do u know another opensource application which can do this now?
03:18.13starseekerIf you really need to work with nurbs, you might take a look at Ayam:  http://ayam.sourceforge.net/ - they're not a CAD application though, so I don't think you get things like solidity
03:19.14Mike111I need to export the wing as an IGES file (or DXF etc.)
03:19.24Mike111can I use ayam and import into brlcad?
03:19.44starseekerif you export as dxf, we import dxf
03:19.54starseekerremember though, that's not a format that supports nurbs
03:20.09Mike111what about IGES?
03:20.41starseekerI believe it has some nurbs support, but our convertor uses our old nurbs structures currently.  (Plus, I doubt Ayam exports IGES)
03:21.03Mike111so what can I do?
03:21.38Mike111the ayam webpage shows: File formats (r/w): RIB, DXF, 3DM, 3DMF, OBJ, X3D.
03:22.10starseekerIf you want to help push NURBS in support in BRL-CAD, you could take a look at the IGES convertor and see about getting it to export OpenNURBS data structures instead of what it currently supplies.
03:22.29starseekerFor immediate, fully open source editing of NURBS as NURBS...
03:22.41starseekerlet me check something...
03:25.23starseekeryou might want to take a look a gCAD3D, but it's not clear to me if they are open source or not
03:26.51starseekerapparently they can open the OpenMoko CAD files, but I can't say what other abilities it may have
03:29.17Mike111can I smoothly connect cross sections in brlcad, for example by creating many adjacent ones?
03:29.57starseekeryes, if you force the derivatives at the intersecting points to be equal
03:30.11Mike111how do I do that?
03:30.15starseekerit's not easy
03:30.18starseekercurrently
03:30.41starseekerwork is going on on a libpc constraint library that would help support things like that, but it's (again) a feature in development
03:31.00starseekerif you really want to have a go at it, you can see how the tire tool alligns elliptical tori
03:31.29starseekersimilar problems would need to be solved for the primitives used to make up the wing shapes
03:31.55starseekerit's an interesting problem, but I'm dubious it could be good enough for what you're after
03:32.28Mike111I can't see a tire command in the command reference (Vol. II)
03:32.36starseekerit's new
03:33.03starseekerthe source is in brlcad/src/libged/tire.c
03:36.10Mike111help tire gives `no help found for tire' but that's on 7.10.4
03:38.53starseekerah, yes
03:38.57starseekerIt appeared later
03:39.56starseekerhttp://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/tire.c?revision=34402&view=markup
03:41.51starseekerthe difficulty with something like an airfoil is that the curvature between each "maximum" point is quite subtle and it may very well be that for your purposes our primitives currently just don't have the expressive power
03:42.35starseekerI might be able to get "close" to an airfoil shape with a LOT of work on a proc-db, but I wouldn't presume to think it was actually aerodynamically valid
03:42.58Mike111well, I hope brlcad will soon have the nurbs feature
03:43.16starseekerit's our top development priority
03:43.25starseekeror one of them
03:43.49starseekerkeep an eye on us :-)
03:44.03Mike111I guess I need to find another interim solution until this feature is added
03:44.05Mike111will do :)
03:47.30starseekermakes a note to check coil behavior before and after the fix to pipe.c incrementing...
03:47.38starseekerand heads outta here
03:47.48Mike111tnx for your help starseeker
03:48.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34505 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: Add a note to look into a procedural geometry routine for CSG airfoil/wing shapes.
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04:23.20yukonbobhello, cadheads
05:15.31yukonbobwin 3
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06:54.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34506 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added scale_ehy.c to stay in sync with Makefile.am
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12:01.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34509 10/brlcad/tags/rel-7-14-8/ (BUGS TODO src/libged/CMakeLists.txt): merge a missed CMakeLists.txt update from head/stable through r34507, hadn't posted yet so update this tag.
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14:04.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34510 10/rt^3/trunk/src/coreInterface/globals.cpp: name-space prefix BRLCAD is needed
14:07.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34511 10/rt^3/trunk/src/coreInterface/ConstDatabase.cpp: a null miss-function hook my produce a crash during ray-trace
14:12.31archivistany sysops in here?
14:24.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34512 10/rt^3/tags/rel-7-14-8/src/coreInterface/ (ConstDatabase.cpp globals.cpp):
14:24.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: bug-fixes from the trunk:
14:24.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: - global function implementations need an explicit namespace prefix
14:24.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: - explicit ray-trace miss-function hook
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21:42.18brlcadfinally
21:42.35archivistwelcome back
21:42.40brlcadthx
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22:21.05starseekerthere we go
22:21.09starseekerit's good to be back
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22:24.28starseekerhmm, this is interesting for airfoil (wing) information:  http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19930090976_1993090976.pdf
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22:44.46starseekerxfoil is GPL, but might have some useful info on geometric inputs expected for this sort of design
22:55.59pacman87off to dinner
22:56.27pacman87took pics of my 6811 tetris, will post soon
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23:21.05Ralithpacman87: cool!
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090513

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090513

00:48.32*** join/#brlcad Mike111 (n=mike@cadil21.kaist.ac.kr)
00:48.38Mike111hi all
00:51.35Mike111I need to generate a NURBS solid (which I understand brlcad currently doesn't support) and export it in IGES format. Ayam can create does NURBS but exports only RIB, DXF, 3DM, 3DMF, OBJ, X3D. Any ideas how convert the Ayam solid into IGES?.  
00:59.24``Erikum, if I understand correctly, the SVN version of BRL-CAD does actaully support creation, loading and saving of nurbs... there are issues with raytracing at the moment
00:59.53``Erikbut this subject is more the turf of people who are online in the morning GMT-5
01:00.53Ralithdoes the IGES exporter handle them?
01:01.01``ErikI doubt it
01:01.28``Erikmmmm molten boron
01:01.32``Erikfuturama++
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01:28.26Mike111hi Erik.
01:28.48Mike111can I create a NURBS surface which smoothly blends between two 2D cross-sections?
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01:47.11starseeker~log
01:47.11ibotextra, extra, read all about it, log is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23wowhead/
01:49.28starseekeruh, shouldn't that be http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ ?
01:52.09starseekerbrlcad: I'm wondering if we're going to have to set up a way to store the bounding box trees for nurbs surfaces once generated - it may be that creating them "on the fly" will be almost as bad as tesselating before raytracing
01:54.00Mike111hi starseeker.
01:54.23Mike111I think the feature I'm looking for is the Ayam Birail2 object: http://ayam.sourceforge.net/features.html
02:00.16starseekerMike111: heh, brlcad was just mentioning birails for that application
02:00.32starseekerfeel like implementing a birails primitive?
02:00.54Mike111not sure I can ;)
02:01.45starseekerWell, the ayam source code license is compatible with BRL-CAD's iirc, so you could use some of the logic there
02:02.07starseekersrc/librt/primitives/ holds our current primitives
02:02.13``ErikI want a birail prim :(
02:02.14starseekerhyp and revolve are recent work
02:05.33``Eriktell ya what, I can't afford the time to do it, but the birail is important enough to me that I'll totally mentor/help anyone who does that
02:06.28``Erikwant my damn car back. Want my house fixed.
02:07.36``Erikdane cook... isn't actually funny... it's not good
02:09.07Mike111I've noticed that configure installs a NURBS library. what is it used for then?
02:12.01``Erikthat's current development
02:12.33``Erikwe hope to have solid NURBS capabilties in the very near future, but we're ... still working on it :)
02:13.23Mike111that will be good
02:17.44Mike111in the meantime, can brlcad import nurbs from Ayam?
02:17.58Mike111I understand the DXF format does not support nurbs
02:18.33``ErikI think the only nurb import is STEP, and it's ... not 100%
02:19.11``Eriklike I said before, the people who know that aren't on right now, they'll probably be around in about 10 hours
02:20.12starseekerIGES is the only working nurbs import
02:20.22starseekerSTEP is being worked currently
02:20.44starseekerOr there's the 3dm (Rhino) to g conversion if you happen to have Rhino
02:21.01starseekerIGES produces old (non openNURBS) nurbs right now
02:21.21starseekerthe STEP conversion will create openNURBS nurbs, as does the 3dm-g convertor
02:21.42Mike111is `3dm-g' the application name>
02:21.45``ErikI thought the iges importer require the tesseleation phase
02:21.48starseekeryes
02:21.56starseeker``Erik: I don't think so...
02:22.25starseekerIf you have access to Rhino, you can model in that and then use 3dm-g to get a .g file
02:22.36starseekerDoubt that will help with Ayam though
02:22.40Mike111is that an opensource?
02:22.46starseekerRhino?  nope
02:23.02Mike111I prefer to rely on opensource only
02:23.12``Erikrhino is only $200, not $20,000 though :)
02:23.39starseekerthe Rhino guys are the ones who did openNURBS
02:24.26starseeker(so the 3dm-g "conversion" doesn't have to do any hard work on the NURBS data structures) ;-)
02:27.31starseekerhas wondered if it might be possible to convince the Rhino/openNURBS guys to add their *->openNURBS conversion logic to the lib...
02:27.44starseekerprobably not though
02:28.30starseekerMike111: the basic truth is that there  isn't a complete open source NURBS solution that I know of right now.
02:28.47starseekerOne thing about Ayam - IIRC it uses Tk for its interface, just like MGED/Archer
02:29.09starseekerso you could take a look at their editing support and see how it maps to openNURBS
02:29.35Mike111Ayam probably does all I need (plus supports scripting). The problem is getting the IGES file.
02:36.02starseekerAyam says it supports 3dm export
02:36.18starseekeryou MIGHT be able to try exporting to 3dm and see if 3dm-g works
02:36.38Mike1113dm-g is rhino?
02:36.45starseeker3dm is rhino
02:37.27starseekerremember though, even if you get a .g file, we can't EXPORT openNURBS to IGES any more than we can import them
02:38.13starseekerso at the very least you'd have to update the IGES export routine to work with the openNURBS data structures
02:39.15starseekermakes a note to see what 3dm-g does with Ayam 3dm exports
02:42.15Mike111what's the difference between standard nurbs and opennurbs?
03:40.23yukonbobhello cadheads
03:40.28brlcadstarseeker: cross that bridge when we're actually stepping on it, but not unthinkable to store the bb's in some in-memory structure .. could even possibly persist them but even tessellation needs to be "interactive"
03:41.24brlcadMike111: we can import nurbs through our iges importer, or through our 3dm importer, but you can't do much more than render them
03:42.52brlcad``Erik: iges importer has 3 different import modes, one being nurbs, another being 2D nmg, and another for 3d nmg
03:44.27brlcadMike111: the 3dm file format is from the same guys that develop rhino, but 3dm-g is *our* importer for the 3dm format (and doesn't require rhino)
03:45.33Mike111can I use brlcad to convert 3dm to IGES?
03:45.51brlcadMike111: openNURBS is just the name of the library
03:45.59brlcadno you cannot
03:46.02brlcadat least not yet
03:46.21brlcadbecause 3dm will import as 'new nurbs' objects, for which there is no iges export support yet
03:47.15brlcadit really wouldn't be too much work to get it working, but you'd have to work on that code
03:47.28brlcador someone would have to, we're not hitting up the converters until a little later
03:47.35Mike111but there is technically IGES supports NURBS, that is, it is just an issue of adding the nurbs capability?
03:47.49Mike111but technically IGES supports NURBS, that is, it is just an issue of adding the nurbs capability?
03:47.51brlcadright
03:47.58brlcadnurbs support on export specifically
03:48.23brlcadwould have to add that logic to our iges exporter to export our nurbs geometry as iges nurbs
03:48.36brlcadreally probably *very* simple
03:48.45brlcadprobably a 1-1 mapping
03:48.50Mike111so at the moment there's Ayam which does nurbs but not IGES and brlcad does IGES but not nurbs
03:48.56Mike111:(
03:48.58brlcad:)
03:49.02Ralith:|
03:49.03brlcadsomething like that
03:49.23brlcadwe sort of do nurbs, just no export support :)
03:50.27Mike111can I create a nurbs surface in brlcad?
03:50.44Mike111I understand it is work in progress
03:51.03brlcadnot interactively via the gui
03:51.25brlcadonly via import (iges/3dm) or programmatically via code
03:51.32Mike111I plan to do via a script
03:52.43brlcadsomeone would have to add scripting support to our existing new nurbs implementation (probably a days work) for that to work
03:52.58brlcadas the programmatic access is presently only via C
03:53.32Mike111I don't code in C or C++ so I'm afraid I can't help you there
03:54.01brlcadnods
03:54.21brlcadit's really not much to add the support, just have to catch a dev with a few hours of free time
03:54.25brlcad<PROTECTED>
03:55.16Mike111specifically, I want to create a surface which smoothly blends 2-D cross-sections. Is this viable in brlcad?
03:55.24Mike111I understand from starseeker it is not
03:55.39brlcadyou need a birail primitive for that, which is on our ideas page but not being worked on yet
03:56.11brlcador at a minimum, you need sweep support, which is being worked on this summer
03:56.29brlcadthough that will only do very specific/simple blends
03:56.37Mike111so there are two features missing (for what I need): script support for nurbs and the birail
03:56.46brlcadanother possibility for you is to use our waterline primitive
03:56.56Mike111how flexible will the birail feature?
03:56.58brlcadyou define spline contours
03:57.02Mike111what's that waterline?
03:57.03brlcadthose will export to iges too
03:58.22brlcadwhat we call an 'ars' primitive
03:59.33Mike111will that blend 2D cross-sections?
03:59.59brlcadyes
04:00.02brlcadslices
04:00.11brlcadthe blends will be polygonal though
04:00.18brlcadand depend on your number of slices
04:00.37brlcadi'll see if i can find some examples
04:01.14brlcadhere's one, http://brlcad.org/gallery/s/screenshots/t62_mged.jpg.html
04:01.18brlcadthat turret is an 'ars'
04:01.42brlcadsee how it tessellates them together, you can see each "layer"
04:02.41brlcadand fortunately, there's a great page specifically on the ARS on the wiki
04:02.45brlcadthanks to Ges
04:02.48brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives
04:03.00Mike111can you make it smoother, that is, use smaller polygons?
04:03.26brlcadsure
04:03.35brlcadread the wiki page, it explains
04:03.46brlcadnumber of points per polyline will make it smoother
04:04.13Mike111I'm trying to model a wing, so having these polygons isn't practical
04:04.25Mike111I need a smooth surface
04:04.44brlcadit will converge to smooth
04:04.48brlcadbut I understand
04:04.55brlcadjust saying what we have ;)
04:06.20Mike111the 2D sections (airfoils) are generated by another application and available as coordinates
04:06.26Mike111how can I import them into brlcad?
04:09.12brlcadyou mean as an ars?
04:11.00brlcadif so, read the wiki page -- it explains all and gives an example (and mged is fully scriptable)
04:11.12Mike111I have several 2D cross-sections, defined by plain ascii files (coordinates). how do I create in brlcad a smooth surface connecting them?
04:13.20brlcadhave you been missing everything I've been saying? :)
04:14.15Mike111the ars webpage mentions I need to provide the coordinates of all points of the interior polygons.
04:15.36brlcadyou're either using our ars (i.e. faceted and non-smooth), or our dsp (quantized, but smoothable), or manually via polygons (also smoothable), or via an extruded 2D sketch (smooth surface but only linear uniform extrusions), or via nurbs (incomplete), or via birail (non-existent) ;)
04:16.05Mike111I'm referring to the ars
04:16.15brlcadyes, the "interior points" are basically the 2d coordinates
04:16.38Mike111that's ok for something like that twisted cube but seems impractical for something like a wing
04:16.40brlcad"The parameters to the above ars command can be dissected as" ...
04:17.16brlcadthat's only because it's using 4 points per waterline, the first parameter
04:17.37brlcadyou'd want dozens or hundreds of points to smooth it out
04:17.54brlcadthe tank turret is around dozens
04:18.06Mike111and I'll need to provide the coordinates for each of these, right?
04:18.24brlcadI believe so
04:19.32Mike111I need to check if that is practical with my application
04:19.37brlcadnods
04:21.31brlcadttyl!
04:23.14Mike111thanks for your help brlcad, I'll look into ars later. need to go now
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05:56.52starseekerwinces at the memory of his own run-in with ars
05:58.18starseekerAyam seems to export something 3dm-g recognizes as a 3dm file, but my initial stab didn't get anything it felt like importing to the .g
05:58.22starseekerprobably did it in Ayam wrong
06:01.17starseekerhadn't considered using dsp - boy would that be a strange use of it
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06:56.08Mike111is there help available on dsp? it's not in volume II (added lately?)
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07:28.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34523 10/rt^3/trunk/src/coreInterface/ConstDatabase.cpp:
07:28.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: revert changes from revision 34511
07:28.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: Sean changed the code in librt so the miss-function hook may now be null as well
07:48.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34524 10/rt^3/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): added the cone (ID_TGC) primitive
07:51.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34525 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/CMakeLists.txt: included the Cone from the core interface in the brlcad.dll
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10:49.14d-lomernin all!
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11:13.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Rossberg 07http://brlcad.org * r1442 10/wiki/CoreInterface_PrintTitle_Example: BRLCAD::bad_alloc
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11:48.45``Erikshush, you
11:52.05``Erikheh, it's been so long since I've updated the fbsd port of BRL-CAD that pedro is lookin gto roll a copy
11:52.28brlcadso let 'em, nice to share the workload ;)
11:52.46``Erikwell,
11:52.58``Erikthe tkhtml issue really screws things over in a big way for that
11:53.28``Erikand he wasn't in the loop, so this latest release is going to surprise him
11:54.09``Erikwill do it today
11:54.14``Erikoh, are you in the office right now?
11:54.30``Erikbrlcad?
11:54.36brlcadnot yet
11:54.43brlcadeta hour
11:55.01``Erikok, then I'll call. the work is continuing on my front door area, some paint has been laid down, but it's not done yet :/
11:55.12``ErikI need to find my usb/miniusb cable to get some pics off my camera :/
11:55.45``Erikheh, gonna be out today for house work, and if mondays predictions are right, out tomorrow to return the rental and get my car back...
11:56.15``Erik<-- wonders how much he's pissing off the bc with this 'other crap'
11:59.56``Erikneat, my phone locked up
12:03.15d-lo``Erik: I asked her and she said "Who's Eric?"  ;)
12:03.31d-loand then I said "Erik, not Eric"
12:03.47d-loand she said "oh him.  Yeah, its cool."
12:03.53d-loso no worries.
12:04.04``Erikhah
12:04.24``Erikshe doesn't get in until 8:30, though? I just got off the phone with admin assist
12:05.26d-loTBH, if you are using time you have earned... then don't think twice about it.
12:05.31``Eriktell ya what, though, this is pissing me off. it was supposed to be a one day job, this is day #3 without completion and he's figuring on doing some today, then wrapping it up saturday...
12:05.46d-loWhat's he charge an hour?
12:05.54``Erikhe's predicting time schedules as bad as... as... a software developer
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12:06.03d-loHAH!
12:06.05``Erikhe's charging per project, not hour
12:06.14``Erikso he's jacking himself more than anything
12:06.14d-lowell thats good at least.
12:07.17``ErikI just need to make sure I still have enough leave saved up to take two weeks around early july O.o
12:07.19d-loLawn chair + a few stiff drinks + wow on laptop + watching him work = Fun, if nothing else.  ;)
12:08.09``Erikheh, 'cept I've been inside, trying to clean things up ... or outside giving him an extra pair of hands :) no wow, no watching, ... but yeah, a few stiff drinks ;>
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12:09.48``Erikthat and learning new songs on my guitar O.o BOC - the reaper and buddy holly - everyday
12:10.37d-loLOL, every time I hear the BOC - Reaper, I can't help but start thinking of Cowbell.
12:10.54``Erikayup :D
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12:11.20``Erikthat's actually the reason I decided to pick it up
12:12.02d-lohahahaha.
12:12.16d-loI am reduced to tears every time I watch that video.
12:12.51d-loThere is just something about Walken.... "Let me tell you something.  I gotta feva, and the only cure is more Cowbell."
12:13.04``Erikindeed
12:13.28``Erikif I scrap together another band and do a gig, I so want to say "I got a feva!" right before playing that song :D
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15:18.48brlcadhowdy roberthl
16:01.14roberthlhi
16:01.26roberthlI am MinuteElectron, btw.
16:01.35d-loI am Iron Man
16:04.26d-loHeh, outstanding tutorial:  http://www.wikihow.com/Escape-a-Minefield
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20:27.00brlcadroberthl: I figured :)
20:27.11brlcadhence the howdy ;)
20:28.51roberthlah ;)
20:29.05roberthlhow are things?
20:29.13brlcadgoing well
20:29.15roberthlgood
20:29.29brlcadwhat are you up to?
20:30.09roberthlexams for the next couple of months
20:35.35brlcadfun!
20:35.37brlcad(not) :)
20:35.51roberthlhehe
20:51.53Ralithcouple of months?
20:51.54Ralithwow.
20:52.03Ralithjust got done with the majority of his
21:21.00roberthlI'm in the UK.
22:31.29brlcadfeel free to nominate us for best project, https://sourceforge.net/community/cca09/nominate/?hash=fec98ebc83402b5dd32313ebe5b215d2 ;)
22:39.53Ralithwow, sf's been modernizing
22:47.27brlcadyeah, the design and layout is vast improvement
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090514

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090514

00:22.31brlcadstarseeker: you happen to have a specific nirt/rt script handy that provokes a root convergence error?
00:23.15brlcadif you get a chance, would like to put that to rest and have a couple things I'd like to check out but need a test case or three
00:49.14starseekerbrlcad: do you mean for the eto?
00:49.35brlcadfor any that fail to converge
00:49.59starseekererm.  I can probably make one for the default tire - give me a sec
00:55.59starseekerbrlcad: does that error message output suppression you added for the nurbs raytracing work for all of them?
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01:07.28starseekerbrlcad: this rt script will kick up a healthy bunch on one of the ellipses you get with the default tire command (no tread - just run tire tire)
01:07.31starseekerhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/mb9f9cf3
01:07.40starseekeryou can see the lines in the raytrace
01:08.07starseekerI'll be back later if you want me to narrow it down further
01:09.10Mike111hi all
01:09.53Mike111is there help available on dsp (can't see it in Vol. II)
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01:50.17brlcadMike111: it's an advanced primitive, best to ask specific questions on how to use it
01:50.43brlcadyou'll need a raw binary data file with unsigned short height values
01:51.00Mike111what does it do?
01:52.11brlcadit's a height field primitive
01:52.29brlcada grid of elevation values
01:53.12Mike111something like an landscape defined by elevations?
01:53.23Mike111something like a landscape defined by elevations?
01:53.24brlcadI'd use an ARS before using a DSP for your air foil
01:53.28brlcadyes
01:53.59brlcadfor an air foil, you'd basically use two aligned dsp's unioned together with smoothed values
01:54.48brlcadbut again, not what I'd recommend first
01:54.48brlcadhere is a massive data set dsp: http://brlcad.org/tmp/puget01.png
01:56.11Mike111regarding the ars, as I understand the waterlines all start from the same point?
01:58.11brlcad?
01:58.37brlcadnot really
01:59.16brlcadthere is a starting reference point, but from there it's whatever you input
01:59.57Mike111The webpage says:`In addition to the intermediate polygons a line will be created that begins at the start point, goes through each polygon at its vertex numbered 1, and terminates at the end point. This is repeated for each polygon vertex 2 thru N. The start point, polygons, and end point are each a "waterline"'
02:00.45Mike111so with that twisted cube, the start point is the center of the top face and the endpoint if center of the bottom face, right?
02:03.09brlcadthink of it like this: http://www.dans-hobbies.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/waterlines.jpg
02:03.36brlcadthere are "loops" at each waterline level -- those are the polygons it refers to
02:04.24brlcadlike if you sliced an apple, http://www.mathcubed.com/images/sliced_apple.jpg
02:04.40brlcadeach polygon is the outline of the apple for that layer
02:05.52Mike111so each polygon is a 2D slice?
02:06.21brlcadyes
02:07.10Mike111so if I want to model a wing comprised of airfoil cross-sections, each `polygon' is now an airfoil?
02:07.28brlcadso in http://brlcad.org/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives .. there are four simple slices (layers)
02:07.43brlcadeach layer simply has just four points so it's really boxy
02:07.48brlcadadd more points and it smooths out
02:07.56brlcadyes
02:08.13brlcadeach cross-section would be described by a simple 2d polygon
02:08.39Mike111but for accurate description of the airfoil I'll need tens of points
02:08.56brlcadprobably hundreds
02:09.15brlcadif you have the equations, that part can be automated
02:09.33Mike111the airfoil is defined by a polynomial, so yes
02:10.09Mike111I have the coordinates for the airfoil's upper and lower surface (above and below its mean line) in a plain text file
02:17.23Mike111for the wing model, the start point will be in root airfoil section (say its centre) and the end point is in the tip airfoil section?
02:18.22starseekerbrlcad: does that script help any?
02:20.10brlcadtrying to get it to run
02:21.24brlcadgot it!
02:21.25brlcadthanks!
02:24.12starseekernp
02:43.46Mike111is there a tutorial for scripting brlcad (besides http://brlcad.org/wiki/SGI_Cube)?
02:47.28brlcadthe mged tutorial series covers most of the basic commands, the appendix itemizes the majority of available commands, the quick reference card summarizes the commands (and has another scripting example)
02:48.25Mike111brlcad uses tcl programming syntax, right?
02:48.28brlcadthe cube example covers at least three ways to script mged -- if that's not sufficient, then you're probably lacking something else
02:48.46brlcadno, mged has a tcl interpreter
02:48.59brlcadbut you can script mged using almost any language
02:49.05brlcadas it's command-driven
02:49.26brlcadthat's specifically what the SGI_Cube explains
02:49.28Mike111there was an example in Vol.II for writing a loop and it mentioned it's in tcl format
02:50.05Mike111p.107
02:50.10brlcadit really sounds like you're not understanding something fundamental -- what do/don't you understand about the SGI_Cube tutorial
02:50.27brlcadyes, and?
02:51.10Mike111is there any benefit in learning the tcl syntax, that is, will it help in scripting for brlcad?
02:51.13brlcadmged's internal interpreter is tcl, so that example is in tcl -- and the SGI_Cube example is a simple posix shell script, not Tcl
02:51.18Mike111besides loop, that is
02:52.24brlcadthere's benefits to learning most languages, depends what your goal is
02:52.34brlcadis it necessary, no
02:52.37brlcadit it useful, sure
02:53.16brlcadwhat language(s) do you know?
02:53.22Mike111for the airfoil, I can either generate all the coordinates in octave and output a plain text file with commands for brlcad
02:53.29Mike111octave
02:54.02brlcadeh, anything else?
02:55.43Mike111or I can presumably write a function/procedure for brlcad which will cycles over the airfoil points (instead of creating a text file with hundreds of lines)
02:56.24brlcadit's a means to an end -- it doesn't really matter
02:56.30Mike111wondering which is better
02:56.34brlcadhundreds/thousands of lines would work just fine
02:56.37brlcadas would a proc
02:57.06brlcadgiven your background, writing out mged commands to a text file is probably the easiest
02:57.26brlcadin ars ars val1 val2 val3 val4 .......
02:57.42Mike111yep, I was thinking something like that
02:58.05Mike111it's basically a loop which appends text lines to file with printf
02:58.27Mike111octave uses the C printf syntax
02:59.07brlcadoctave's syntax is close to csh/tcsh shell scripting syntax
02:59.20brlcadyou might do well to learn/write a tcsh script
02:59.37Mike111I've done a bit of bash scripting
03:00.12brlcadokay, then that
03:00.44brlcadsgi_cube is a posix/bash/ksh/sh script
03:01.00Mike111there's no issue on mged side handling an ars with say 200 points per polygon?
03:01.06brlcadyou should study/understand it -- it shows three specific ways to issue commands
03:01.13brlcadnope
03:04.45Mike111ok. thanks for your help brlcad
03:07.46brlcadsure
03:12.48starseekerwonders how workable a tool to generate birail based wings from NACA numbers + wing type (straight, tapered, delta, etc)
03:21.26Mike111starseeker: NACA is only one of airfoil parameterization methods. common current methods are PARSEC (11 design variables) and Hicks-Henne (sum of basis functions)
03:21.46starseekerIs NACA a subset, or different altogether?
03:21.54Mike111different
03:22.08starseekerso, not terribly useful for modern wings?
03:22.18Mike111PARSEC are Hicks-Henne are recent
03:22.48Mike111Hard to say. I haven't seen many recent studies where people directly used NACA.
03:22.59starseekerhrm
03:23.12starseekerany references available on PARSEC and Hicks-Henne online?
03:23.29Mike111It will probably be sufficient if brlcad can smoothly blend two arbitrary cross-sections
03:23.42Mike111the user will need to provide the cross-sections (airfoils)
03:24.19starseekeroh, sure - I'm more curious about the possibility of generating "standard" wing shapes based on some standard specification - be it NACA numbers, PARSEC, what have you
03:25.38starseekerprocedural wings, if you prefer
03:26.12Mike111it can be an issue since there are quite a few methods out there and they're all different
03:26.32Mike111also, people are experimenting with new methods, like orthogonal polynomials
03:26.38starseekernods
03:26.45starseekerunderstood
03:27.05starseekerbut for most "standard" wing designs already in use, it's likely they're characterized by some existing method
03:27.24starseekerI need some XXXXXXX wings for commercial plane XXXXXX
03:28.00Mike111what engineers do is optimze the wing for a performance profile
03:28.19Mike111cruise speed, altitude, take-off weight etc.
03:28.25Mike111either wind-tunnel or CFD
03:28.48starseekeronce they've optimized it, how do they tell someone else what to build?
03:29.24Mike111airfoil cross-sections, sweep (backward tilt of the wing), twist of airfoil sections etc.
03:30.18starseekerok, so airfoil cross sections, sweep (is that an angle, or something more complex?), twist of sections (is that from one cross section to the next?)
03:30.57Mike111sweep=angle of wing w.r.t to hull, twist=between airfoils
03:31.42Mike111I hope brlcad will have nurbs capabilities soon (including scripting support) :)
03:32.51starseekerI realize no one specification is going to encompass all the experimental wing designs out there - what I'm after is some sort of "ISO or ANSI wing specification" standard that outlines a way to geometrically describe most standard wing shapes
03:38.09starseekerfor example, for tires it would be something like this:  http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=36320
03:47.22Mike111not sure if this exists for wings
03:58.02Mike111need to go now. have a good one
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11:37.36brlcadd-lo: so they're already working on migration scripts for the forums
11:37.42brlcadcouple weeks
11:38.13brlcadthey'll be getting rid of the old forums, the task manager, the doc manager, and the diary/notes sections
11:40.52brlcadyay, indianlarry is in
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12:21.26*** join/#brlcad indianlarry (n=indianla@bz.bzflag.bz)
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12:38.52brlcadindianlarry: heh welcome!
12:38.58brlcadsee you figured it out :)
12:39.24indianlarrypartly
12:40.09brlcadcheers
13:01.28d-lobrlcad excellent!
13:01.36d-lowaves @ indianlarry
13:01.52indianlarryhey d
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13:47.01*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
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13:49.13d_rossbergwhy is the color in struct mater_info float?
13:49.37d_rossbergin struct rt_comb_internal it is unsigned char
15:24.15brlcadd_rossberg: libmultispectral and other portions of the code use floating point values for color information
15:24.57brlcadfor increased color range/depth and to avoid quantization and aliasing effects
15:26.35brlcadrt_comb_internal's are structures that predate by quite a bit
15:30.32*** join/#brlcad Briggs (n=chatzill@adsl-70-238-143-242.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net)
15:30.43Briggsdoes brlcade use doubles or floats to represent positions internally?
15:31.44brlcadBriggs: compile-time toggleable, but doubles
15:32.09brlcadnobody has tried a float compile in over a decade too.. so might not even be possible to drop it down :)
15:32.12Briggsbrlcad: thank you.
15:32.26Briggsbrlcad: just curious what other packages are doing since I have been having some precision problems with floats lately.
15:32.37brlcadah yeah
15:33.03Briggsespecially at extreme scales...
15:33.07brlcadwe hit precision problems a *long* time ago..
15:33.29brlcadpre ieee floating point was notoriously unstable
15:33.52Briggssorting 7kmx7km  of map data to find things like intersections and collinear edges just wasnt behaving nice with floats in the picture...
15:34.52brlcad:)
15:36.04brlcadwe also use tuned data structures for certain primitives, integer indexing where it makes sense for example
15:36.08brlcadgridded data
15:36.13ChiGaihello everyone, my question seem to be a little bit stupid but I still want to ask
15:36.39brlcadlike our height fields (dsps), their raw data is unsigned short integer ranged data that is positioned in 3space
15:36.45brlcadChiGai: ask away
15:37.07Briggsbrlcad: right, I'm  doing similar things.
15:37.11brlcadthere are no stupid questions, just stupid people ;)
15:37.20ChiGaiI am a mechanic student living in a third world country where a commerical CAD program cost is several times larger than GDP
15:37.41ChiGaiso I am interested in finding a free CAD program, and found about brl-cad
15:37.53brlcadokay, cool
15:37.54ChiGaiI don't know if it is suited for education?
15:38.17ChiGaimost people here are using pirated version of Catia, SolidWork etc...
15:38.26ChiGaiand I want to change that
15:38.44_clock_use pirated version of brl-cad!
15:38.56ChiGai_clock_: how to pirate brl-cad anyway? :D
15:39.01_clock_not possible :)
15:39.07_clock_function not implemented :)
15:39.16ChiGai:P
15:39.18brlcadit involves wearing a pirate hat and ending a lot of sentances with arrrrrrrr....
15:39.52brlcadthere's a parrot invovled too, but you don't want to know what you do with it
15:40.01ChiGai:))
15:40.22ChiGaiI am building brl-cad at the moment and eager to try it
15:40.43ChiGaioh, done already
15:41.12brlcadChiGai: we're chocked full of features and in use in production environments, but for very specific usage domains with a lot of experts
15:41.27brlcadso you'll find there to be a pretty steep learning curve and lacking usability
15:41.40brlcadthings we're working on improving of course, but it takes a lot of time and effort
15:42.15brlcadparticularly if/when compared with the usability and features in the products of multibillion dollar companies like those you mentioned ;)
15:42.26ChiGaihmm, I don't intend to do anything advanced so it shouldn't be too hard
15:42.32brlcadwe still hold our own very well though, and pretty much are the best out there (as open source)
15:42.37brlcadif I do say so myself
15:42.52ChiGaiand beside I like banging my head on the wall, doing hard thing
15:43.13brlcadthere are pretty extensive tutorials on the website
15:43.58ChiGaiI see
15:44.17ChiGaithank you for your answer then :)
15:44.30brlcadnp
15:44.33ChiGaiI hope the situation here will be improved soon
15:44.43brlcadand if you have questions, someone is almost always on here or will eventually answer
15:44.45ChiGaiand thank again for your work on brl-cad
15:45.02brlcadthough the answer is often "contributions welcome" ;)
15:45.10ChiGai:)
15:45.18brlcadwe need developers more than new users (unfortunately) ;)
15:45.26brlcaddemand is much greater than supply
15:45.31brlcadseveral orders..
15:45.41ChiGaiI can understand that
15:46.30ChiGaiwriting CAD software is pretty hard and need a good, solid team, that also explain why there aren't many oopen source cad software out there :(
15:47.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34526 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/ (Makefile.am bots.tcl tclIndex):
15:47.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: add the 'bots' command (along with 'per_line') to mged for finding specific
15:47.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: kinds of bots in an open database as a short term replacement until 'search' can
15:47.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: do it better. make the commands already deprecated so they can be removed at
15:47.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: will when search is enhanced.
15:47.13brlcadyep, that's part of it
15:50.33brlcadthe magnitude of work involved to even have basic features is pretty huge
15:53.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34527 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: search needs some sort of -param option to inquire about specific (internal) properties of objects, like finding dsp with given dimensions, spheres of certain sizes, bots with a given orientation, etc
15:53.38CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34528 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/deprecation.txt: bots and per_line are new and already deprecated.
16:06.04d_rossbergbrlcad: i'm using floting point variables for color values in my programs too
16:06.26d_rossbergbut region and rt_comb_internal are closely connected
16:06.40d_rossbergand have diferent representations for color values
16:07.24d_rossbergtherefore there is somebody else who writes something into mater_info?
16:07.57d_rossbergeg libmultispectral
16:13.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34529 10/rt^3/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs):
16:13.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: a ray-trace hit now gives you some extra data
16:13.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: ...to be continued...
17:44.23brlcadiinteresting, http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg14339.html
17:44.41brlcadwonders if michael is on irc
17:47.21*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14FD5B.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:02.14starseekerbrlcad: do we need to up the version number to 7.14.9 now?
18:02.35starseekeroh, nevermind
18:02.37starseekerI see it now
18:03.51brlcadversion number should always be bumped immediately after tag (or at *least* immediately after the upload
18:04.17starseekernods. Yeah, I just missed it being updated in the commits - my bad
18:05.13brlcadElrohir: do you know michael buesch?
18:06.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34530 10/brlcad/trunk/ (11 files in 3 dirs): Add editing for EPA and Particle to libged and Archer.
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18:31.20Elrohirbrlcad: no ... never heard of that name
18:37.05brlcadokay, thanks :)
18:42.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34531 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS:
18:42.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: fastgen plate mode bots seem to be busted for shotlines. they render just fine,
18:42.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: but are nirting and rtchecking wrong. have a good sample case with attached
18:42.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: detail added as sf bug 2791866 (plate mode bots shotline incorrectly)
18:43.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34532 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob continues to add interactive editing support to archer, now for epa and part objects.
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19:01.28CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34533 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/ (11 files in 7 dirs):
19:01.28CIA-28BRL-CAD: Accept and apply sf patch 2787632 from dave brosius ([patch] minor cleanup in
19:01.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: jbrlcad) which applies a lot of lint-style cleanup throughout the code to mark
19:01.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: things final, declare overrides, sort imports, cleanup casts, and more.
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21:48.31pacman87here's my tetris pics: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/6811%20Tetris/index.html
21:54.22brlcadhehe, pacman87 how do you distinguish an M from an N ? :)
21:54.48pacman87M only has one dot in the middle, just above the center
21:54.49brlcadthinks maybe need 4x6 glyphs or 4x5 :)
21:54.58pacman87H has the center dot
21:55.03pacman87W has the lower dot
21:55.05brlcadfunny ;)
21:55.10pacman87and U has the bottom dot
21:56.30pacman87but the way the LCD works, it's a lot easier to code for 4 px wide letters (including spaces)
21:57.54pacman87http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m3a178dbb
21:58.20brlcadheh, neat
21:58.21pacman87that's the font in 4x6
21:58.32pacman87including the spacing top and right
21:59.22pacman87i want to write a quine with it, but haven't had time with finals
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090515

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090515

01:05.39*** join/#brlcad LarsG (n=lars@eng20373.pc.nus.edu.sg)
01:05.58*** part/#brlcad LarsG (n=lars@eng20373.pc.nus.edu.sg)
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06:49.13*** join/#brlcad Mouette (n=chatzill@fw1.phys.sinica.edu.tw)
06:49.55Mouetteexppp.c:351: error: `sys_errlist' undeclared (first use in this function)
06:50.04Mouettein 7.14.8
06:51.25Mouettemaybe solaris hasn't the fonction
07:12.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34534 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: sync with Makefile.am
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10:40.51*** join/#brlcad jpjacobs (n=jpjacobs@jig.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.be)
10:40.58jpjacobsHi !
10:41.54jpjacobsI once made  a ubuntu package for BRLCAD, but it isn't maintained any more, and back then it even was just a hackup, not taking into account dependancies etc.
10:44.11jpjacobsBut now I keep getting those mails as "Hey I can't install your BRLCAD package, please help". But since I'm no longer using it, Would you mind taking the package off line, and put http://jpjacobs.ulyssis.org/brlcad-7.8.4.zip instead? it's the directory structure of the debian package, and has a usefull shellscript for setting up the environnement
10:45.43jpjacobsBut at least state that I am not the package maintainer, and can't really help, unless point them through to general "how to build and install packages in ubuntu" pages.
10:45.46jpjacobsThanks!
12:18.14brlcadhowdy jpjacobs
12:18.36jpjacobshowdy
12:18.46brlcadjpjacobs: you referring to the .deb on sf.net?
12:20.30jpjacobsI guess so... if it's the one I made :)
12:21.05jpjacobs(btw sorry if I stop responding, the network here has troubles today...)
12:22.19brlcadhm, that was balbir thomas
12:27.31jpjacobshmmm i'll see
12:29.06brlcadso what exactly are you asking? :) .. doesn't seem like the existing 7.8.4 deb has your name (at least in the credits, cant crack the file atm)
12:30.39brlcadmaybe there's an entry in apt that references you
12:30.49jpjacobsin apt even?
12:31.12jpjacobsis it in apt yet? because I made the package because there was none in the repository at that moment
12:31.33jpjacobsmmm I think i'll mail the guy who mailed me for support where he got the link...
12:31.44brlcadi'm not sure what the current status is, it wasn't then it was approved, then rumored that it was, then wasn't, so I don't know
12:31.59brlcaddon't have a debian box accessible, and that's not something we maintain
12:33.04brlcadeither way, sounds like you deserve thanks in out contributor's file -- happen to know when you worked on it (and your full name)?
12:34.31jpjacobswell I think it was about 3 years ago... but actually the only thing it was was a quick package without proper dependancies and stuff. The only thing I really wrote was a wrapper for Xterm that sets up an environnement as is used in the manual
12:40.59``ErikI know I built a debian/ directory long ago, but lost access to my debian machine... d'no ubuntu, but if a package maintainer is not keeping current, basic courtesy says that they should step aside if contacted
12:41.44``ErikI've been feeling remiss in my maintainership of the fbsd port, if pedro asked to retake the responsibility, I would probably cede and take on a 'mentor' roll
12:41.47``Erikrole
12:42.19jpjacobsI never was a package maintainer, just made it once, ugly hackup, and put it online if anybody could use it... now it's like 3 years old, and I still have mails for support (not a lot, but anyway)
12:42.21``Erik(also; huzzah! dude is coming to finish up on my house today!)
12:42.51``Erikthat's 3 people looking to you as the official liazon, man :)
12:43.05jpjacobs:)
12:43.10jpjacobshehe
12:43.18``Erikit's meritocracy, if you have the desire and the ability, then you're the guy
12:43.52jpjacobsanyway, I give them directions to building packages in general, hand them over the wrapper script and such, but not really anything that couldn't be written on a site or wiki somewhere...
12:47.15brlcadjpjacobs: well if you find out that the ref is somewhere on our end, I can disable it .. but not finding it -- you're probably coming up on people just searching "brl-cad on debian" or somesuch
12:47.49jpjacobssearched myself just now, couldn't find it...
12:48.00brlcadthat that hack is still thank-worthy, if you care to be annotated
12:48.17brlcads/that that/and that/
12:48.46jpjacobswell, Yea, but maybe (if we find out where it is) state that it's totally unmaintained hack from 3 years back :)
12:49.47jpjacobsIf you want you can also put the zip file with the debian directoory structure online, so anybody can plugin any compiled version, and roll their own .deb?
12:50.10jpjacobs(how ever i don't remmember quite so well how the actual deb-making went...)
12:53.38brlcadthere's no point in posting old versions
12:53.43brlcadespecially ones that old
12:54.00brlcadthey just get disabled if there is a problem
12:54.08brlcadthe actual "problem" is that there hasn't been an update ;)
12:56.08jpjacobsyeps... so you can put up the zip with the structure (just has the /usr/bin ... structure) it's here if you'd like it http://jpjacobs.ulyssis.org/brlcad-7.8.4.zip
12:59.38brlcadhave it, but that's not useful by itself (at least posted on sf.net with our distributions)
12:59.58brlcadI'll just keep it handy in case someone else expresses interest in working on it
13:00.20brlcadwhich actually seems to happen every few months .. but nobody takes it to completion it seems
13:00.49jpjacobsindeed
13:00.58jpjacobs:p
13:01.12brlcadlooks like you showed up on 20061123 ;)
13:01.33jpjacobs:) waaaaay back :)
13:04.59brlcadjpjacobs: can you check if the 7.8.4 .deb on sf.net is yours?
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13:05.23brlcadhttps://sourceforge.net/project/downloading.php?group_id=105292&filename=brlcad-7.8.4.deb&a=36697579
13:05.38brlcadif it is, i'll just turn it off
13:09.30jpjacobsI'll see
13:09.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34535 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: credit jpjacobs for his work back in 20061123 where he prepared a .deb package for 7.8.4. the dist included a brlterm wrapper script that sets the PATH/MANPATH, lscolors, and provides the apt package control files.
13:10.18jpjacobsbrlcad, jeps, it lists me as maintaine
13:10.19jpjacobsr
13:11.14brlcaddisabled
13:11.21jpjacobsthx
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13:59.26``Erikinteresting, hulu lets you skip past commercials now
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15:03.07``Erikok, they messed something up, if you skip to the end of a show, then play it back from the start, it skips over all the ads
15:03.09``Erikheh
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15:18.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34536 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (12 files in 2 dirs): Add editing for RHC, RPC and Superell to libged and Archer.
15:34.18brlcad``Erik: interesting, i'll have to try that...
15:34.54brlcadi did notice that they have a timer, it won't play a commercial if it's played one recently
15:44.29``Erikmaybe that's what I ran into
15:44.51``ErikI was trying to watch an episode, wanted to see if it was fresh in my mind, so I skipped to the end, then back to the beginning
15:45.23``Erikin the past, when I tried to skip to the end, it brought me straight to the next scheduled ad, so I found this behavior... intriguing :)
15:46.11``Erik(I don't mind the advertisements... they're far fewer than cable tv, and don't have the volume issue)
15:46.25brlcadfancast does that
15:46.31brlcadvery annoying
15:46.36``Erikdoes which now? the volume issue?
15:46.51brlcadjump to mid-show and it'll play all the ads in-betwee
15:47.04``Erikah, hulu used to do that
15:47.13``Erikeven that's ok with me, though... the volume thing is what pisses me off
15:47.36``ErikI mean, I have to turn the volume up for the show, and when a commercial hits, it's 4x the volume, wtf
15:47.37brlcadhm, no volume issue for me
15:47.58``Erikdifferent channels have different "preferred" volumes as well
15:48.04``Erik:/
15:48.38CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34537 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob continues onward on the archer interactive editing support, adding support for rhc, rpc, superell in addition to epa, part. just annotate them as 'most primitives' since he'll undoubtedly add more still
15:48.47``Erik'fox' has to go down to -40, comedy central and cartoon network are -24
15:49.50brlcadthat's pretty odd
15:49.54``Erikprobably should not have bought a 600 watt home theater system O:-)
15:50.11brlcadreally can't say I've really noticed and that's watching 4 or 5 channels
15:50.18brlcadmaybe your flash needs upgrading :)
15:50.25``Erikheh, possibly
15:50.35``ErikI've noticed a lot of service degredation
15:50.38brlcador quicktime or whatever all it goes through
15:50.46``Eriklike the 'on demand' channel now hangs indefinitely
15:51.04brlcadoh, for the comcast box?
15:51.24``ErikI pulled it up one night, got the 'loading data; please wait' screen, left the box on overnight, it was still tehre in the morning
15:51.34brlcadyeah, mine never worked .. I called them 3 or 4 times for it, they'd send a reset signal, it'd work for one day then be busted again
15:52.11``ErikI'm starting to think d-lo's idea of "cancel cable, it's all online" might be a brilliant avenue
15:52.16brlcadit was 50/50 if I cold cycled the box
15:52.35brlcadthat's my route now :)
15:52.38``Erikno, this has been dead for many months, and I do a full rebooted pretty much daily
15:52.40brlcadworks great
15:53.01``Erikthe cable box goes off when I turn off the tv and amp
15:53.15brlcadthe thing has a cmos iirc, has to stay unplugged for 1min to reset or something iirc
15:53.28brlcadah, k
15:53.31``Erikit's been down with power outages, and I unplug it all when I leave town
15:54.27``Erikoh, uh, *prod* machine migration, still in the queue?
15:54.56``Eriknoticed that the old machine is cooked up an awful lot on apache looking for locks
15:55.16``Erik30% cpu utilization but reading 3.0 load due to buttloads of lockd and select
15:55.28``Erikmight be failing fs issues
15:55.32``Erikor bad code
15:55.45brlcadpart of it is bad top reporting
15:56.00brlcadcpu stats are jacked in that version
15:57.52``Erika lot is jacked in that version, it was a zomfg hack release to cover some ugly mistakes
15:58.28``ErikI don't think the 5 series was sane until 5.4, and everyone who was doing critical work was off on 6 when 5.2.1 came out
15:58.48``Eriknow it's 7.2
15:59.08``Erik(6 was a bit of a stinker as well, but 7 seems back to the quality 4 had)
16:02.06``Erik*shrug* personally, I want to bring them to pace to get a modern sbcl set up behind modproxy :) port atrophy is my concern
16:02.27``Erikif you run sudo portaudit -Fda, ... there's an awful lot of... issue
16:04.45brlcadnods
16:06.03``ErikI tried to put that output into a weekly cron email, I don't think I did it right though :)
16:06.25``ErikI'm sure you saw the sudo's
16:09.28brlcadprobably saw them, but not ringing a bell at the moment
16:09.34brlcadbut mind is off in libged land atm
16:53.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34538 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/make.c: Added hyp to the result given when -t is specified.
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18:01.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34539 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (scale_rhc.c scale_rpc.c scale_superell.c): Add editing for RHC, RPC and Superell to libged and Archer.
18:33.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34540 10/brlcad/trunk/include/common.h: HAVE_DRAND48 does only make sense with a config.h
19:00.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34541 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/scale_tor.c: Constrain the scaling.
19:23.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03JamesVasile 07http://brlcad.org * r1443 10/wiki/Compiling: Added build instructions specific to debian/ubuntu
19:24.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03JamesVasile 07http://brlcad.org * r1444 10/wiki/Main_Page: Added link to Compiling page
19:35.25``Erik<PROTECTED>
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21:12.15CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34542 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/README.Linux: Add note about 64 building on Linux platforms
23:46.59dreeves__,m,.
23:48.21dreeves__brlcad saw your comments and the patch I will take a look soon I have been very tied up on a project not much time.  soon hopefully
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090516

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090516

01:18.01*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-199.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
02:26.31brlcaddreeves__: no problem, you saw how long it took to review it carefully/fully :)
02:52.53*** join/#brlcad Briggs (n=chatzill@adsl-70-238-143-242.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
04:58.59starseekerraises eyebrows - apparently sK1 will be even more heavyweight than I though as a sketch editor replacement ;-)
04:59.06starseekerhttp://www.sk1project.org
05:52.51Axman6starseeker: thing i like best about that webpage? they've made the google ads look like they're part of the interface and almost encourage you to click them
05:53.10Axman6needs to get google ads on his blog... and then start writing interesting stuff again
08:04.31*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
08:43.23*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@77-58-234-38.dclient.hispeed.ch)
09:12.49*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@223.Red-83-49-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
10:26.55*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-199.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
11:22.44*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
12:38.35*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
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14:28.07*** join/#brlcad Mouette (n=chatzill@fw1.phys.sinica.edu.tw)
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22:32.31brlcadhah, awesome.. accelerated X11 on old O2's under NetBSD
22:48.12*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090517

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090517

00:46.33``Erikhehehe http://armorgames.com/play/2893/achievement-unlocked
03:52.51*** join/#brlcad LarsG (n=lars@as20194.pc.nus.edu.sg)
03:52.57*** part/#brlcad LarsG (n=lars@as20194.pc.nus.edu.sg)
06:58.44*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
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10:18.09*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@77-58-234-43.dclient.hispeed.ch)
17:44.20*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
18:21.33*** join/#brlcad pacman871 (n=pacman87@resnet-46-40.dorm.utexas.edu)
18:56.08*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.133.143)
18:56.43madanthates his fried laptop and desktop
18:57.12madantloves his 9 year old P3 which is still breathing
18:57.14brlcadtastes good with chips
18:57.24brlcadfried and battered
18:57.48madanti just got the laptop motherboard repaired and there it goes again
18:58.26madanti see a potential 500 USD going into repairs over stuff that is probably worth 750 USD :(
19:11.12``ErikI thought laptops and desktops came with chips re-installed
19:11.31``Erikmmm, *noms on a natty semi*
19:12.12``Erikbrlcad: did you attempt to verify the bind on the new machine?
20:02.22*** join/#brlcad andax (n=andax__@d213-102-41-141.cust.tele2.ch)
21:13.07*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@223.Red-83-49-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
21:16.33*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@98.227.157.38)
21:46.36*** join/#brlcad objorn (n=safar@unaffiliated/objorn)
21:46.50objornanyone a gsoc mentor?
21:51.56``Erik?
21:56.43madantin search of a gsoc mentor in may ..0.o
21:56.46madantoops
23:50.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34543 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-X.c:
23:50.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: reports of a crash on Mac OS X from 'irocha' on the brl-cad help forum with a
23:50.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: reported crash trace leading to the DisplayWidth() call. this would seem to
23:50.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: imply that there is a display without a default screen and (more specific to the
23:50.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: crash) that DefaultScreen() is a null pointer. so we check it. if it is indeed
23:50.28CIA-28BRL-CAD: null, try to create or request the screen associated with the window we created.
23:54.38CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34544 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: need to visualize material thickness as an intensity value (akin to height field data) for EMC folks. rtxray seems like the best fit but presently outputs inverted pixel values.
23:54.48brlcadobjorn: huh?
23:55.48objornbrlcad: it isn't important, it seems i won't be able to get teh statistics i was going for
23:58.07brlcadok
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090518

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090518

00:05.47*** join/#brlcad alvaro (n=alvaro@190.77.167.45)
00:08.55alvarowhy the qcad's command line does't work , is it normal?
00:10.48alvarohttp://fpaste.org/paste/12170
00:11.20alvarowhich of these packages should i install to install brlcad from source?
00:11.22alvarohttp://fpaste.org/paste/12170
00:12.34``Erik2 and 3
00:13.13``Erikre qcad: http://www.ribbonsoft.com/forum/ seems to be their preferred support path
00:15.20alvaro``Erik: that forum is not allowing to log in users
00:15.54``ErikI'd imagine you have to register to create an account before you can log into an account
00:16.08alvarowhich of these packages should i install to install brlcad from source?  http://fpaste.org/paste/12170
00:16.20``Erik2 and 3
00:16.34``Erikthe libXi-i386 and libXi-devel-i386 ...
00:17.22alvaro``Erik: that forum http://www.ribbonsoft.com/forum/ is not allowing users to register
00:17.25brlcadalvaro: we're not qcad, so asking questions about how to use it here is not good
00:17.55brlcadkinda rude actually
00:18.05alvarobrlcad: can you answer to me some questions in private about qcad?
00:18.36brlcadno, but I'll be glad to answer your brl-cad questions
00:25.54alvarodoes  a brlcad user can launch commands writing it on a command line like autocad does?
01:15.25*** join/#brlcad LarsG (n=lars@dial208-36.dialup.nus.edu.sg)
01:15.29*** part/#brlcad LarsG (n=lars@dial208-36.dialup.nus.edu.sg)
02:15.35brlcadalvaro: yes
02:15.42brlcadheavily command-driven
03:16.23starseekerbrlcad:  I'd say your license plate would be rather on topic for this article:  http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/17/1858237
03:19.52starseekerwonders if there could be a "nerd license plate" convention somehow
03:20.00starseekertalk about hilarous photo ops
03:21.34starseekerbonus points if someone gets a Microsoft related plate on a Ford Pinto
03:59.47*** join/#brlcad alvaro (n=alvaro@190.77.167.45)
04:00.41alvarois this  an important error          /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -ltk8.5  ?
04:01.28*** part/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@98.227.157.38)
04:02.53*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
04:05.02alvarocan someone tell me if  this  was  succesfull or error  ? http://fpaste.org/paste/12184
04:13.43*** part/#brlcad alvaro (n=alvaro@190.77.167.45)
04:49.33brlcaderror
04:50.11brlcadmissing tk, something during configure was wrong
04:50.45brlcadlook for }}}}} line in the output and install whatever is missing
05:05.35*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
05:29.16*** join/#brlcad madant_ (n=madant@117.196.133.143)
07:32.03*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.139.11)
07:33.05CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34545 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: sync with Makefile.am
07:36.28*** join/#brlcad madant_ (n=madant@117.196.139.11)
07:39.42*** join/#brlcad LarsG (n=lars@nusnet-186-108.dynip.nus.edu.sg)
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11:13.04d-lomornin all!
12:03.45*** join/#brlcad indianlarry (n=indianla@bz.bzflag.bz)
12:12.27brlcadmornin' indianlarry
12:12.43indianlarryhey brlcad how goes it
12:18.23brlcadbit of a headache for some reason, but good!
12:18.44d-losinus?
12:18.48brlcadnot really
12:19.08*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-199.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
12:20.30brlcadtaking elle into the shop here in a little bit, it should clear up with a shower and some fresh air hopefully
12:26.04d-loelle == the lotus?
12:27.53brlcadof course
12:28.05d-lo:)  Nice name!
12:29.10archivisthehe a man and his car
13:55.12``Erikis happy that his house is being finished up today
13:55.46``ErikI'll probably be in tomorrow, if I can still remember the way to get there O:-)
13:56.11d-loSo the house is lookin good again?
13:59.07indianlarryguess no rockin out today =(:^{o>>>>>>>>>>
14:31.26*** join/#brlcad roberthl (n=robert@cobalt.rhl.me.uk)
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15:42.47*** join/#brlcad Administrator_ (n=Administ@117.196.130.246)
15:44.04*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.130.246)
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17:38.25*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
19:07.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34546 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: Add some comments describing what the routines that draw the nurbs sub-surface bounding boxes are for.
19:22.32*** join/#brlcad webcad (n=5b21c1cc@bz.bzflag.bz)
19:24.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34547 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Modify scaling of ell and superell to take "abc" instead of 3 when scaling "a", "b" and "c".
19:24.30*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-57.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
19:26.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34548 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: Add a few more comments on nurbs wireframe plotting
20:11.53*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@98.227.157.38)
20:16.10``Erikyeah, house is looking pretty good... not perfect, but decent
20:17.14``Erikhopefully get my house back tomorrow or wednesday O.o
20:17.29``Erikthen it's on to talking to hvac dudes to get the a/c back heh
20:17.33``Erikrubs his wallet
20:17.45``Erik(hm, d-lo left for the day, I bet)
20:18.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34549 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 3 dirs): Add support for editing Eto and Tgc to libged and Archer.
20:31.09starseeker``Erik: nah, he's here
20:31.10starseekerbusy
20:34.06d-lothey've got me chained up.  :(
20:34.29d-lo*grunt* *grunt*  IM FREE!!!!
20:34.31d-lolata!
20:42.39*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@80-219-41-247.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:46.51*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
20:51.14``Erikreally didn't need to know about all the s&m crap ya'll do when he ain't there O.o
20:54.45_sushi_has a microwave oven transformer :D
22:57.51*** join/#brlcad jdoliner2 (n=jdoliner@wireless-230-180.uchicago.edu)
22:58.22*** join/#brlcad jdoliner2 (n=jdoliner@wireless-230-180.uchicago.edu)
23:02.45Ralithhad two
23:02.52Raliththen I realized I really didn't want to mess with that kind of voltage
23:02.55Ralithso I gave them to someone who did
23:14.27``Erikhas one, inside of his microwave
23:23.22Ralithd-lo: you around?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090519

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090519

00:05.15*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedyII (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
00:12.08*** part/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@98.227.157.38)
00:42.29starseekercan't help thinking something doesn't look right about these bounding boxes... http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/pipe_bb.png
01:10.50starseekerapparently those are marked "Leaf"
01:17.32*** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
02:11.18starseekerbrlcad: I'm thinking this bounding box is waaaay to large for the purpose of subdividing a spherical nurbs surface:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/sphere_bb_edge.png
02:49.25starseekerponders the criteria of surface flatness and wonders how the normals can satisfy it when the bounding boxes are so large...
02:51.13*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=pacman87@pool-173-57-41-37.dllstx.fios.verizon.net)
02:51.16*** part/#brlcad pacman87 (n=pacman87@pool-173-57-41-37.dllstx.fios.verizon.net)
02:51.25*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=pacman87@pool-173-57-41-37.dllstx.fios.verizon.net)
02:56.04starseekeris the plotting messed up?
02:56.05starseekerhmm
03:08.33*** join/#brlcad Administrator_ (n=Administ@117.196.129.20)
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03:21.48*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@pool-173-57-41-37.dllstx.fios.verizon.net)
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04:14.40*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@pool-173-57-41-37.dllstx.fios.verizon.net)
06:41.08*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
07:22.21*** join/#brlcad _clock_ (n=_sushi_@84-72-91-14.dclient.hispeed.ch)
08:27.08*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@223.Red-83-49-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
08:50.24*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
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11:28.32*** join/#brlcad indianlarry (n=indianla@bz.bzflag.bz)
11:32.39*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-2.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
13:18.47*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-2.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
13:28.35brlcadtried to pull him away
13:28.51brlcadstarseeker: yeah, I'm not sure I believe that plotting
13:29.29*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
13:29.34brlcadthe boxes do overlap, and with that much curvature, I'm sure there are a lot of them, but they shouldn't be that many/big
13:29.57brlcadhowdy hippieindamakin8 !
13:30.12hippieindamakin8hey brlcad
13:30.13brlcadany progress on the bot to nmg conversion?
13:30.31brlcadhow're classes?
13:30.34hippieindamakin8brlcad, not yet actually should be done in a couple of days.
13:30.39brlcadcool
13:31.06hippieindamakin8brlcad, havent registered for summer school. i took up a summer job
13:31.23brlcadanything technical/interesting?
13:32.46hippieindamakin8tools to analyse the rail tracks for the indian railways(hardware) + a handheld to analyze the data on and print it out on a line printer
13:33.11brlcadwhat are they analyzing?
13:33.28hippieindamakin8analyzing the defects of the tracks
13:33.45brlcadcad models? :)
13:34.02hippieindamakin8:P vibration analysis.
13:34.33hippieindamakin8and then probably we ll be using a beagleboard and a screen to develop a handheld
13:35.37hippieindamakin8apart from that a literature study at the university with a prof on the geometric coresets and their applications
13:35.53brlcadcoresets?
13:36.34_clock_corsets?
13:37.05hippieindamakin8coresets are this geometric approximations we work on . they are the subsets of the actual sets with an /epsilon error
13:37.16brlcadeh?
13:38.18brlcadyou've still not said what that means :)
13:38.33brlcad.. coresets are geometric approximations (of what?)
13:38.35hippieindamakin8suppose we have a clustering problem, and the point set is very huge, now we develop a coreset which is an approximation of the point set and then using this coreset we obtain we get
13:39.16hippieindamakin8*we obtain this new point set to work on to reduce the computational costs
13:39.44brlcadah okay
13:39.47hippieindamakin8coresets in this case is an approximate point set the geometric approximations of the point sets
13:40.00hippieindamakin8of the actual point sets.
13:40.56hippieindamakin8but the end of it all its an approximate solution. :)
13:42.10hippieindamakin8brlcad, i ll just put the patch in soon.
13:42.35brlcadno rush, was just wondering if you were still working on it or stuck on some problem or busy, etc :)
13:42.39brlcadhadn't seen you in a while
13:43.36hippieindamakin8yeah :) i did actually get stuck implementing the read
13:43.53hippieindamakin8but i ll just go through the src code and get back to you.
13:57.32*** join/#brlcad alvaro1 (n=alvaro@190.77.167.45)
14:00.01alvaro1make > &a ................?
14:05.37alvaro1please can somebody help me to find the error?    http://fpaste.org/paste/12285
14:07.19``Erikhm, looks like you told it to build tcl but use the system tk, make "make distclean" and "./configure --enable-all"
14:08.01alvaro1what is tk8.5  ?
14:08.13alvaro1ltk8.5
14:08.29``Erikthe gui toolkit for tcl 8.5, check out http://tcl.tk for more info
14:09.15alvaro1what goes first?, make distclean or ./configure --enable-all
14:09.32``Erik"make distclean && ./configure --enable-all && make"
14:12.09alvaro1configure: error: cannot find install-sh or install.sh in misc ./misc
14:13.13brlcadafter distclean, you have to "sh autogen.sh"
14:13.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34550 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h: reorganize trace defines in opennurbs (convenience only)
14:13.47alvaro1make distclean
14:13.56brlcadthen sh autogen.sh
14:13.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34551 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h: whoops - that's TRACE2
14:14.04brlcadthen ./configure --enable-all
14:14.50alvaro1[root@alvaro-edicta-host brlcad-7.14.6]# make distclean
14:14.50alvaro1make: *** No rule to make target `distclean'.  Stop.
14:15.22brlcadonce you run it, you can't run it again
14:15.34alvaro1nice point
14:15.48brlcadit blows away all makefiles
14:15.56brlcadso you can "start fresh"
14:16.14alvaro1fresh is my second name!
14:23.06brlcad"alvaro fresh"
14:25.03*** join/#brlcad bcsaba (n=bcsaba@catv-86-101-149-192.catv.broadband.hu)
14:46.06*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.136.182)
15:09.55``Erikoh, woops, fergot about having to autoreconf O:-)
15:24.55*** join/#brlcad madant_ (n=madant@117.196.136.182)
15:31.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34552 10/brlcad/trunk/ (22 files in 6 dirs): Add support for editing hyperboloids to libged and Archer.
17:24.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34553 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: new files scale_eto.c and scale_hyp.c added
18:00.28*** join/#brlcad d-lo_ (n=claymore@bz.bzflag.bz)
18:00.38*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (i=1000@s142-179-54-198.bc.hsia.telus.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
18:56.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34554 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp:
18:56.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: Turn off box growing in the NURBS for now - plotting the bounding boxes reveals
18:56.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: that the scaling factors are causing the sizes to go waaaay out of line. The
18:56.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: visual artifacts being seen appear to be the result of bounding box intersection
18:56.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: errors - parent bounding boxes are found, but the children do not intersect
18:56.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: properly. Appears to be related to opennurbs_ext.h:243 in some way. Growing
18:56.38CIA-28BRL-CAD: the bounding boxes just 'hides' the problem.
19:29.42*** join/#brlcad Defcon- (n=defcon@88.197.195.143)
19:30.03Defcon-!seen maloeran
19:43.22*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-71-115-91-184.sbndin.dsl-w.verizon.net)
20:04.51brlcad~seen maloeran
20:04.52ibotmaloeran <n=maloeran@glvortex.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 48d 7h 58m 41s ago, saying: 'Ahah, neat article mafm'.
20:15.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34555 10/brlcad/tags/rel-7-14-8/ (db/ misc/pkgconfig/ src/conv/ src/rt/): ignore generated files
20:15.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34556 10/brlcad/trunk/db/: ignore goliath.g
20:27.01Defcon-mkay..
20:27.03``Erikmal was on efnet yesterday
20:27.06Defcon-tnx brlcad
20:27.09Defcon-efnet ?
20:27.11Defcon-#c ?
20:27.30``Erikuhm, I saw him in, uh, #siggraph
20:28.06``Erikhe's on now, but idle 21.5 hours
20:29.19Defcon-ty
20:33.36starseekerhm.  well, the bound box check seems legit... next do the bounding boxes really enclose what they say they do...
20:38.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34557 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h: Add commented out debugging statements for the NearZero check.
20:45.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34558 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h: Whoops, comment out additional cout debugging.
20:47.46Defcon-^^
20:55.36Defcon-cya :)
21:09.14starseekeroh, so that's it - the bounding boxes aren't including all of the volume they need to for a given uv parameter patch
21:20.19*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
21:42.02*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
22:01.57*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
22:09.25*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@80-219-41-215.dclient.hispeed.ch)
22:39.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34559 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: Tweak bounding box plotting for nurbs drawing, disable trimming for now (need to get bounding boxes behaving better first)
22:50.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34560 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: add help for e_id even though it's a tclscript, include an example and do better at describing how to use it than e_id presently does via it's usage statement.
22:51.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34561 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/e_id.tcl: make e_id use the new help string, just call 'help'.
22:54.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34562 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: improved e_id help, usage statement, description, and example.
22:57.06CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34563 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/tclscripts/helpcomm.tcl): change the output of help. remove the parentheses, add a Description label, don't tab in.
23:06.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34564 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: remove the quotes around help strings as they imply the string needs to be quoted (and that doesn't seem to be the case)
23:09.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34565 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: Force the upper level bounding boxes to be at least as big as the bounding boxes of the leaf boxes they contain.
23:10.28CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34567 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: Turn off the debugging drawing for now.
23:10.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34566 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: remove the quotes even if it screws up the fontlocking due to the comment chars.
23:32.15starseekerdoes happy dance and heads outta here
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090520

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090520

01:01.43*** join/#brlcad jdoliner2 (n=jdoliner@wireless-230-213.uchicago.edu)
01:31.50brlcadstarseeker: awesome progress :)
01:35.31brlcad~starseeker++
02:11.34starseekerbrlcad: thanks! :-)
02:11.42starseekernext up, trimming
02:13.33starseekeror more specifically, trimming + bounding volume hierarchy
03:26.00*** join/#brlcad madant__ (n=madant@117.196.136.182)
07:09.45*** join/#brlcad _clock_ (n=_sushi_@84-72-91-14.dclient.hispeed.ch)
10:05.09*** join/#brlcad indianlarry (n=indianla@bz.bzflag.bz)
10:07.08*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@223.Red-83-49-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
11:08.26indianlarry~/whois
11:21.07*** join/#brlcad madant_ (n=madant@117.196.130.253)
11:34.38brlcadyawns
11:43.23alex_joniO prostituata merge la ginecolog...
11:43.23alex_joniAcesta o intreaba:
11:43.24alex_joni- Domnisoara, aveti pierderi mari in timpul menstruatiilor?
11:43.34alex_jonieek.. sorry, wrong paste :/
11:43.41brlcadheh
11:43.57brlcadwhat an odd paste at that :)
11:44.44indianlarryflashes back to catholic school
11:45.06alex_jonibrlcad: that's part of a joke in my native language
11:46.37d-lo_Hrm, I see prostitue, gynocologist and menstration.... I probably don't wan't to hear the actual joke based on that....
11:47.47archivistclean safe laugh http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-mostly-wrong.html
11:59.12d-lo_hah, thats pretty good :)
12:06.10*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@64.74.225.82)
12:15.58madanthadn't heard of Scala :O
12:41.07*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
13:07.11``Erikheh, archiviist: that was on hn a few days back :)
13:11.27``Erikhm, starseeker, that java vuln I mentioned yesterday went up on /. this morning
13:12.05starseeker``Erik: yeah, saw that
13:12.09starseekerturned it off
13:12.33starseekermadant: Oh, the lisp in lisp thing?  Yeah, it doesn't get a lot of press
14:12.43brlcadheh
14:13.14brlcad"Oh, * lisp *?  Yeah, it doesn't get a lot of press" :)
14:13.37brlcadloves lisp, but it's not exactly ever going to be "mainstream"
14:14.53starseekermust concede that
14:15.53madantis checking out wattzon.com
14:23.27``Erikseems to have had a resurgance the last few years, though
14:25.26_clock_http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/599/yogadz6.jpg
14:26.00brlcadhttp://www.ohloh.net/languages/compare?measure=commits&percent=&l0=emacslisp&l1=lisp&l2=scheme&l3=-1&l4=-1&commit=Update
14:26.04brlcadthat's pretty "steady"
14:26.18``Erikwait, vodka makes me do yoga? awesome, it's healthy for ya! :D
14:26.35_clock_``Erik: right
14:27.10``Erikthe new lisps aren't usually called lisp, though... they go with funny names like clojure and arc
14:27.53``Erik(and it's scattered and often using a variety of odd vcs's if any, so ohloh won't pick it up well)
14:27.55``Erik*shrug*
14:28.31brlcadohloh's language parser would see them as lisp
14:28.58``Erikhow does ohloh find projects to add?
14:29.03brlcadand the fact that it's scattered and obscure doesn't really help your point :)
14:29.04madantwhat percentage of the world's code base right now would be open source ;)
14:29.22starseekermadant: a minute fraction
14:29.38brlcadat least, perhaps we define "resurgance" quite differently :)
14:29.54CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34568 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/scale_hyp.c tclscripts/archer/HypEditFrame.tcl): Added scale H (move V) editing capability for hyperboloid. This affects libged and Archer.
14:30.22``Erikfrom the forum/blog/newsgroup/irc/packagegrowth/etc perspective, it's grown a huge amount over 5 years *shrug*
14:30.56``Erikbut it's an ugly nonunified world, MOST work is just "here's a tarball" on a site and maybe a registry in cliki if you're lucky
14:31.02brlcadI think that's probably just because it's what you're reading (because it's interesting to you)
14:31.28``Erikif there is a public vcs, it's darcs on this random machine, or git on that one, or something else over there
14:32.02``Erik*shrug* but I've been interested in it for 10 years now... :)
14:33.09brlcadfwiw to answer your question -- if it has a public vcs, anyone can add it to ohloh
14:33.23``Erikso it has to be manually added?
14:33.36brlcadby someone that cares, sure
14:33.43brlcadthey don't go scraping around for projects
14:34.13``Erikimagines 95+% of the lithp world doesn't care about ohloh :) (most probably haven't even heard of it)
14:34.20``Erikbut that's pure conjecture
14:35.03brlcadconjects that 95% of the lisp world doesn't even amount to a 1% difference in those stats
14:35.49brlcadlaw of averages, it's not like the ones on there do care
14:35.58``Erikmight be amusing to write a script to scrape all the lisp repo locations off of few dozen 'central' locations and add them
14:42.44_clock_Is BRL-CAD Turing-complete?
14:42.49_clock_I think it should be.
14:42.53``Eriktcl is
14:55.20*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
14:56.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34569 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/mirror.c: stub in the new mirror calls for all of the rest of the primitives, change indentation on the old sections
15:10.07``Erikwonders if brlcad is on the way in, or working from home
15:33.03*** join/#brlcad madant_ (n=madant@117.196.130.253)
15:44.10*** join/#brlcad elena (n=ebautu@89.136.118.141)
15:44.21*** part/#brlcad elena (n=ebautu@89.136.118.141)
15:44.52*** join/#brlcad elena (n=elena@89.136.118.141)
15:45.07elenahi.
15:49.09d-lo_hai!
15:49.32elenahi d-lo
15:53.47brlcadhola elena
15:54.00elenahi Sean.
15:54.00brlcad``Erik: in, but no lunch
15:54.22elenabon appetit!
15:54.36brlcadelena: how's summer looking so far? :)
15:54.47elenainteresting.
15:54.58elenachallenging
15:55.02elenafun.
15:55.06brlcadwell that's good!
15:55.16elenayes.
15:55.39brlcadhave to get you set up soon
15:56.14elenaanything I can help with?
15:57.34brlcadprobably
15:57.49elenajust let me know.
15:58.08*** join/#brlcad alvaro1 (n=alvaro@190.77.167.45)
15:58.17elenaI'll also catch up with Cliff.
15:58.46elenaI was away lately.
15:58.56brlcadnods
15:58.56elenain norway :)
15:59.06brlcadsounds like fun :)
15:59.17brlcaddetails in pm for setup
16:00.16d-lo_whereabouts in Norway?
16:03.25alvaro1[root@alvaro-edicta-host brlcad-7.14.6]# ./configure --enable-optimized
16:03.25alvaro1configure: error: cannot find install-sh or install.sh in misc ./misc
16:03.43brlcadalvaro1: you ran autogen.sh ?
16:03.48alvaro1no
16:04.09brlcadrun it
16:05.17alvaro1sh autogen.sh gives me this ERROR:  Unable to locate GNU Autoconf.
16:06.34alvaro1should i install this?:  autoconf.noarch : A GNU tool for automatically configuring source code
16:06.37starseekeralvaro1: well, step one is to install it :-)
16:06.41starseekeryep
16:07.01starseekermake sure automake is in there too
16:07.16starseekeror rather, in PATH
16:07.39alvaro1there are two choices: autoconf.noarch : A GNU tool for automatically configuring source code , autoconf213.noarch : A GNU tool for automatically configuring source code
16:08.06starseekerI'd go with plain autoconf
16:14.59alvaro1starseeker: (libedit.i386 : The NetBSD Editline library) is equivalent to libtoolize ?
16:15.13starseekerno, I don't think so
16:16.07starseekerlook for an autotools package, if there is one
16:16.36alvaro1http://fpaste.org/paste/12422
16:17.34brlcadlibedit is equivalent to the gnu readline library .. nothing to do with libtool
16:17.36starseekerwhich OS/distro are you on?
16:17.44brlcadlibedit is cool, we should be using it
16:17.49starseeker:-)
16:18.11starseekerhasn't checked - do we get tab completion/history for free using that?
16:24.19alvaro1<PROTECTED>
16:26.11brlcadalvaro1: you have to run autogen.sh successfully
16:26.21brlcaduntil that happens, you cannot run configure
16:26.23brlcadso stop trying :)
16:27.08alvaro1http://fpaste.org/paste/12423
16:29.02alvaro1and libedit is installed but autogen.sh keeps on reporting the error  about libtoolize
16:29.47brlcadalvaro1: 12:21 <@brlcad> libedit is equivalent to the gnu readline library .. nothing to do with libtool
16:29.52brlcaddid you miss that?
16:31.33alvaro1brlcad but autogen.sh is asking for libtoolize and when i search on the repos the only thing that appears is libedit
16:32.02brlcadsounds like you need to do some searching then for your platform
16:34.19alvaro1brlcad: libedit.i386 is equivalent to libtoolized on fedora see this: http://fpaste.org/paste/12426
16:35.41elenahi starseeker. brlcad just setup my account.
16:39.07alvaro1libtool.i386 seems to be working
16:43.02brlcadalvaro1: you are totally misunderstanding that description
16:43.38brlcadlibedit IS NOT libtool .. read the rest of the description, search online for libtool and read it's description .. they are very different projects
16:44.17brlcadelena: so .. what's "step one"?
16:46.10elenai'll take a look at the current setup.
16:46.24elenaalso you mentioned problems with captcha. are they solved?
16:46.36brlcadnope
16:46.59elenamaybe I could take a shoot at that first...
16:47.32brlcadelena: your project (the repository aspect) has a nice benefit that it can somewhat start with a clean slate
16:48.24brlcadthat would be cool -- fixing the captcha problem on the contact form would certainly take off one headache :)
16:48.39elenacan you rephrase "slate". I don't understand it.
16:48.48brlcadmm a "fresh" start
16:48.53brlcada blank piece of paper
16:48.54elenaaha.
16:49.23elenathen next step would be to find a theme.
16:49.34elenasomething in tone with brlcad.org.
16:49.48brlcadbrlcad.org's theme is bound to change, don't worry about it
16:50.07elenaook.
16:50.10brlcadit just needs to be clean and asthetically pleasing ;)
16:50.15brlcad"just" :)
16:51.18d-lo_yes.  Eye trauma == bad
16:53.21brlcadas for the location, can either go with more.brlcad.org or ..
16:53.26brlcadI've also had solidgeometry.org registered for a while after some discussions at the ACM solid modeling conference a couple years ago, that could be used
16:53.43brlcador [whatever].brlcad.org really
17:01.38brlcadmy goal is to end up at solidgeometry.org so that the repository can have its own identity, community, policies, and such
17:01.56brlcadsort of a separation of model/view and controller in MVC lingo :)
17:02.16brlcadalso doesn't mean we have to start there either though
17:08.13elenai'd go with more. for now.
17:08.24elenamaybe solidgeometry could be more general.
17:08.51elenaa next step.
17:10.04brlcadokay, sounds good
17:10.11elenagreat.
17:25.41brlcadelena: clean slate: http://more.brlcad.org/
17:25.54elena:) thanks.
17:26.41brlcadcliff can help out with logging in, navigating, transferring files, etc
17:27.12elenai'll try to do it myself first.
18:00.25alvaro1it is necessary run "make test" ?
18:01.07alvaro1is it necessary run "make test" ?
18:03.05elenamaybe not, but it is a good idea to do it.
18:06.50alvaro1and "make benchmark" ?
18:11.37starseekeronly if you want to test your system's performance
18:15.09alvaro1what comes after make , make test, and make benchmark  ?
18:15.47*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-2.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
18:17.11alvaro1what comes after "make" , "make test",  "make benchmark", and "make clean",   ?
18:17.31starseekeruh - why did you do make clean?
18:17.55starseekerif you're trying to install BRL-CAD, it's make and then make install
18:17.55elenaI was going to suggest not to make clean.
18:18.21alvaro1what do i do now ? i did make clean
18:18.58elenarun again. make and make install
18:19.11alvaro1sure?
18:19.24starseekerthat's standard for GNU autotools builds
18:19.25elenastarseeker?
18:20.05starseekeralvaro1: have you read the INSTALL file?
18:20.20starseekerelena: hey elena
18:20.28elenahi.
18:20.34starseekerhow are things going?
18:20.39alvaro1starseeker: yes but the command line is giving instructions too
18:20.39elenagreat.
18:20.46starseeker:-)
18:20.51elenai just got an account on brlcad.org
18:21.17starseekeralvaro1: The standard install procedure is ./configure && make and then as root make install
18:21.32starseekeralvaro1: I take it this is the first time you've compiled software on your machine?
18:21.37elenai'll look around for the setup and then bug you with any question I have :)
18:21.49alvaro1well i am runing make install, first time
18:21.53starseekerelena: cool :-)
18:22.20starseekeralvaro1: OK.  If you get any permissions errors on make install, it means you're not in the root account
18:22.37alvaro1i am logged as root
18:22.47starseekerok.  It should work then
18:35.37brlcadalvaro1: yet you're also making up your own instructions
18:36.47brlcadmake clean is not mentioned anywhere in the INSTALL file or the instructions that are prompted after each build step
18:36.55brlcadthose instructions match up, you're not following either of them
18:38.03brlcadread the INSTALL instructions and follow them -- the quick instructions are particularly relevant
18:39.03alvaro1well after make install stops i will go back if necessary, do yo suggest to interrupt "make install" ?
18:39.54brlcadno
18:40.05brlcadif make install works, you should be done
18:40.28alvaro1ok let's see the result...
18:40.46brlcadlook at the instructions, follow after the "Once installed, ....." section
18:41.07brlcadthat should help
18:54.28alvaro1in the INSTALL file ?
18:55.39brlcadthat would be the installation instructions
19:29.08alvaro1how do i add PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH ; export PATH to the path permanently ?
19:33.30brlcadalvaro1: do you have a .profile in your home directory?
19:33.36alvaro1yes
19:33.47brlcadwhat's in it?
19:33.53alvaro1let me see
19:35.20alvaro1no i do not have a .profile on my home directory
19:40.25brlcadls -la .profile    that returns nothing?
19:41.02brlcadrun this:  echo "" >> .profile && echo "PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH ; export PATH" >> .profile
19:41.19brlcadthen open a new terminal -- the path should be set
19:41.26brlcadcan check it with "echo $PATH"
19:43.18alvaro1if i open gedit and paste "PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH ; export PATH" and save it as .profile in my home directory will work too?
19:43.32brlcadwithout the quotes
19:43.35brlcadsure
19:43.56brlcadmight need to run: chmod 755 ~/.profile
19:46.31*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@98.227.157.38)
19:47.59alvaro1it is not working for some reason please see: http://fpaste.org/paste/12447
19:50.14brlcadassuming you put it into the right place, that looks right
19:50.32alvaro1yes it is at home
19:50.35brlcadnote that's a root shell, you have to open a new user shell
19:50.53brlcadalso check to see if you have a .bash_profile
19:52.20alvaro1i  have a .bash_profile http://fpaste.org/paste/12450
19:52.29brlcadso put it in there
19:52.47brlcadyou already have a path line in there even
19:58.03alvaro1michael jhon mush had a great smile!
20:01.28brlcadhe did :)
20:08.42alvaro1brlcad: thanks i'll try to upload binarys, but i am going to explore brlcad first, it is running on fedora 10
20:33.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34570 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/tor/tor_mirror.c: unused var
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20:42.57*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
21:06.47``Erikheh
21:07.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34571 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/mged/mged.c): Added -v to command line mged for version information.
21:09.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34572 10/brlcad/trunk/ (doc/docbook/system/man1/en/mged.xml src/mged/mged.c): Document the -v argument.
21:31.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34573 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (Makefile.am primitives/tgc/tgc_mirror.c): separate out the tgc mirroring for the guts to rt_tgc_mirror()
21:33.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34574 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/mirror.c: turn on tor and tgc/rec mirroring through the new routines sans debugging, remove the old.
21:35.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34575 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/mirror.c: bah, fix the preprocessor logic. helps to compile first.
22:37.16``Erikhehehe, I wonder if I messed up the slushbox doing that :D
23:26.37*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@wireless-194-193.uchicago.edu)
23:37.16brlcadhowdy jdoliner
23:46.09*** join/#brlcad rincon (n=alvaro@190.77.167.45)
23:46.59rinconwhat i see in the help is the mged classic, where can see the help of the new GUI
23:53.50brlcadrincon: what do you mean?
23:54.14brlcadrincon: there's extensive tutorials on the website
23:54.18brlcadunder documentation
23:54.32rinconthe images on the local manual seems so differrent than the gui
23:55.14brlcadlatest docs are the mged tutorial series, pdfs on the website
23:55.23brlcadthe ones that are locally installed are older
23:55.33brlcadstill valid, but yeah different
23:56.20rinconok then it is better to look at the website...
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090521

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090521

00:17.32rinconcan i export to dxf format from brlcad ?
00:19.00*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@98.227.157.38)
00:25.12*** part/#brlcad rincon (n=alvaro@190.77.167.45)
00:29.11starseekerglowers at shape1
00:31.47starseekerdreeves__: Do you happen to know if face->Loop(0) returns a trimming curve or the "outer" curve per the http://en.wiki.mcneel.com/default.aspx/McNeel/opennurbsfaq Trimming loop entry?
00:42.40starseekerdreeves__: You're probably aware of these, but just in case:  http://www.uni-koblenz.de/~cg/Diplomarbeiten/DA_Oliver_Abert.pdf
00:44.24brlcadstarseeker: fwiw, that url is also src/other/openNURBS/faq.txt
00:44.31brlcadstarseeker: Loop() should be a trimming curve
00:44.36brlcadOuterLoop() will return the outer
00:44.37starseekerbrlcad: oh, sorry
00:44.43starseekerbrlcad: cool, thanks
00:45.16starseekerthinks he is slowly getting a handle on what they want to do to trim
00:47.18starseekerAh, you're referring to the mcneel faq
00:47.25starseekerthought you ment the thesis
00:47.42starseekerreally should be updating the BRL-CAD bib file with all of these nurbs papers
00:48.02starseekermight be time to pause tomorrow and do that
00:48.09starseekerI think I'm gonna need 'em
00:49.42starseekerdreeves__: also, http://nis-lab.is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/nis/cdrom/sig90_nis.pdf
00:50.48starseekerdreeves__: the DA_Oliver_Abert thesis addresses trimming in some detail in section 5.4
00:59.26``Erikbrlcad: did you even hear the revving? I was snickering all the way off post :)
01:06.06brlcadwas that what that was? :)
01:06.18brlcadthought maybe had a hole in the muffler
01:13.18brlcadstarseeker: since you mentioned nishita's paper, keep in mind that we're intentionally not doing a surface decomposition to bezier surface patches
01:14.02brlcadinstead evaluating the nurbs surface directly
01:14.59``Erikheh, no, I slipped it in neutral in the intersection and tried to rev it a couple times (very unresponsive throttle), then popped it back in drive
01:38.21*** join/#brlcad rincon (n=alvaro@190.77.167.45)
01:41.47rinconhow do you draw a  circle ?
01:44.03brlcadrincon: 3d primitives
01:44.26brlcadsomething circular is the base of a right-circular cylinder (rcc primitive)
01:44.36brlcador a tgc or an rec
01:44.47brlcadexamples in the back of volume two
01:45.34rinconbrlcad has object snaping ?
01:49.05brlcadthat's related to one of the gsoc projects (constraint resolution), until then you'll have to be explicit
01:53.07rinconi understand
02:45.50starseekerbrlcad: right.  The algorithm appears to be adapted to do the uv space trimming (the trims being bezier curves)
02:49.17starseekeris currently trying to figure out how to get the uv space control points out of the trim curve
03:15.06*** part/#brlcad rincon (n=alvaro@190.77.167.45)
03:15.13dreeves__starseeker it is the outer curve
03:15.52dreeves__all the loops after 0 are holes or inner loops
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13:18.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34576 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/pscale.c: Include the command name in error messages.
13:38.43brlcaddreeves__: really?
13:38.48brlcadre-reads
13:44.07brlcadahh, I see now, conventionally it is to be considered valid -- the structure doesn't require it, nor does Loop() and OuterLoop() scans also not caring .. but then IsValidFace() insists that [0] has m_type outer
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17:27.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34577 10/brlcad/trunk/ (16 files in 6 dirs): Added the ability to rotate primitive (i.e. eto, hyp and tgc for now) parameters.
17:28.55*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@98.227.157.38)
17:33.22jdolinerindian larry?
17:47.56brlcadjdoliner: howdy joe
17:48.10brlcadlooks like you two just may finally be able to sync up :)
17:48.24jdolinerwe've been emailing a bit...
17:48.26brlcadalso, highlighting works much better if you don't inject a space ;)
17:48.41jdolinerindianlarry
17:48.43indianlarryjdoliner: hey joe how's it going
17:48.51jdolinerhi
17:48.55brlcadshould be chattering on the brlcad-devel list if it's related to the task so others are aware of what's up/planned
17:48.58``Erikrolls around and pops
17:49.04brlcadbut good to hear regardless
17:49.51brlcadprivate chatter should really only be for time-tracking or personal issues
17:49.52jdolinerso I mentioned in my application that I have a slightly unorthodox school schedule
17:50.16indianlarryyou plan on starting later in june?
17:50.27jdolinerI did originally
17:50.48brlcadwhat's your schedule look like now?
17:50.57jdolinerbut my course load is such that I feel confident starting earlier
17:51.09indianlarrycool
17:51.20``Erikwhat's unorthodox about scheduling the classes around the parties and co-scheduling sleep and study/homework? :D
17:51.21jdolinerI just might not be at quite full steam until early june
17:52.03jdolinerbut I have a few logistic questions
17:52.03``Erikneat, I made indianlarry "lol"
17:52.26jdolinerfirst where in the code base should my code go?
17:54.45``Erikwhat about making it a command in src/libged/ ?
17:55.05jdolinerbecause all I plan to interact with is the openNurbs library
17:55.39``Erikthen how will you call it?
17:56.27indianlarryErik mentioned that there is a facetize command that takes a CSG and creates a bot/nmg object
17:56.59indianlarrysomething like that for the csg evaluation would be a nice start
17:58.05``Erikr nurbs.r u nurb1.s u nurb2.s; beval mynurb.r nurbs.r
17:58.49jdolinerwell perhaps it's unfeasible, but what I meant by that is it'd be nice if the code was portable enough that other projects using openNurbs could run it
17:59.25jdolinerof course it'll interact by being called
18:00.39indianlarrybrlcad: you listening
18:01.09jdolinerlibged seems like the most obvious place to put this
18:01.43jdolinersince it seems to me like it's obviously part of the editor
18:03.51``Erik*ponder* src/other/libbrepeval/ ? src/libged/brepeval/ ? src/libged/brep_eval_xxx.c (and lose coupling to the rest of libged) ? *shrug*
18:05.13indianlarryjdoliner: so you'll be finished by weeks end ;^)>>>>>>
18:05.52``Erik(I'd imagine that the actual location of the code has little to do with the coupling to other stuff in the directory and the pertinent files could be easily pulled and used elsewhere?)
18:06.01jdolinerindianlarry: of course :P
18:06.27jdoliner``Erik: true, these are really two different issues
18:09.35starseekerOK, so the trimming curves are nurbs curves, NOT bezier curves
18:09.35starseekerimportant to know
18:09.55indianlarrystarseeker: in their own param space?
18:11.00starseekerIn the param space of the surface they are in, if I'm not mistaken
18:21.02brlcadindianlarry: always, just not necessarily interactively ;)
18:21.36brlcadjdoliner: I'd expect libged to just be a wrapper to some (non-libged, probably librt) library routine
18:21.54indianlarrybrlcad: i think joe is okay putting it into libged
18:22.33brlcadright, but that it doesn't really belong there
18:22.49brlcadlibged ==> command
18:23.00brlcadthere does need to be a command, but that routine is needed elsewhere too
18:23.04indianlarrylibrt?
18:23.16indianlarryother?
18:23.19brlcadyeah, means it belongs lower-level ala librt
18:23.28brlcadno, other is only for 3rd party codes that we don't maintain
18:25.19brlcadalso while it will be nice to have it generalized for other packages, but that's certainly not the priority
18:25.29brlcadwould be great to have but shouldn't hinder the goal
18:25.34brlcadintegrating it as a facility for librt routines to use it is the priority focus
18:25.50brlcadso we can tessellate implicits reliably (for shaded displays)
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18:39.41brlcadjdoliner: the biggest implementation issue is dependency management, and what ends up being needed to make the evaluation work -- whether your implementation only depends on openNURBS or libbu or libbn or librt or some combination thereof
18:40.53brlcada good similar example of integration (wrt libged) is the bot_smooth command, src/libged/bot_smooth.c which basically calls rt_bot_smooth() from librt
18:52.34brlcadstarseeker: my stable here says .8
18:52.40starseekersame here
18:53.13brlcadhowdy madant
19:00.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34578 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: Add code to dump text summary of trimming curves - useful if there is interest in the exact nature of a particular trimming curve.
19:00.25madanthi brlcad
19:01.16madantseems like my laptop is gonna take more time to get fixed up.. i will have to think about installing debian on this p3 ..
19:01.30madantand so much work to do ..
19:01.38madantis scared
19:01.51brlcadno fun
19:02.17madantno fun at all.. i remember 2.5 hour compile time of brl-cad during last summer when i tried :(
19:02.29brlcadheh, that's aweful
19:02.39brlcadyou'd be better on working remote on a fast server :)
19:02.57brlcadcould probably arrange that
19:03.15madantthat'd be aaaaaaaaawesome
19:03.25brlcadnot quite as satisfying as hearing the laptop heat up, but certainly more productive :)
19:03.34madantwould a 512 kbps connection be enough ?
19:04.11brlcaddon't see why not
19:04.27madantgreat.. what do i need to do :)
19:04.50brlcadmm, i'll see if I can get an account created on something reasonably fast
19:04.57brlcadmight take a day
19:05.08madantno problem.. i need to write much on the wiki before that ..
19:05.54madanthow are my co-gsocers :)
19:06.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34579 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (6 files in 5 dirs): separate out and define rt_ell_mirror()
19:08.11brlcadhaven't heard much from pacman87 or Ralith lately, but the others seem to be getting prepared
19:08.26Ralithwaves
19:08.42brlcadheh, yeah him :)
19:08.55Ralithschool is taking a little more time than I had expected, unfortunately.  That shouldn't be a problem for long though.
19:09.06brlcadwhen is the semester over?
19:09.20Ralithin about three weeks, but the workload will lighten before then.
19:10.23madanti wish everyone had the same time table..
19:10.28Ralithyeah.
19:10.30madantwell on second thoughts .. maybe not
19:10.52madant:) talk about too crowded travel destinations, internships .. the whole mess
19:10.56Ralithhehe
19:11.16Ralithactually, the only immediate time sink I have right now is a linear algebra take-home final.
19:12.23madantused to love matrices :)
19:12.56RalithI've found the course to be very fun.
19:12.58madantwhat's the final topic in ur linear algebra course ?
19:13.11Ralithlots of neat stuff even at the entry level
19:13.13Ralithfinal topic?
19:13.18Ralithuhhhh
19:13.32Raliththe final itself covers the whole course, but the last topic I studied was...
19:13.34madanti meant the last major section .. whatever you call it :)
19:14.23Ralithquadratic forms
19:15.48Ralithocrap, looks like google still needs some paperwork from me.
19:16.07madant<PROTECTED>
19:16.12Ralithnot yet
19:16.18Ralithreally needs to keep better track of his email
19:16.18madantah..
19:16.47madantremembers his last lecture in Linear Algebra was on SVD
19:17.47madanti guess we all just got the acm mail just now
19:17.53madanti mean the gsoc students
19:43.28brlcadthe schedules can be flexible, but we just have to make sure that the timelines and goals match up or are shifted accordingly (especially if less work earlier is going to be compensated with more work later), otherwise reducing goals to match effort
19:43.40brlcadso when midterm comes, we can make sure everyone is 100% ;)
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19:46.29Ralithiirc, the time intervals I allocated are pessimistic enough that that might not be necessary (yet, anyway)
19:46.55Ralith'course, we'll see how that stands when the code starts flowing.
19:51.55``Erikralith: every coder says that :D
19:52.11Ralithhehe
19:52.14Raliththought that might be the case.
19:53.03Ralithstill, I have a tendency to, given a solid block of free time, take a problem, sit down, and grind my way through it in an allnighter or two
19:57.49RalithI love LaTeX.
19:58.44``Erikwhoa whoa whoa, we don't need to know about your bedroom activities, there!
19:58.59``Erik\documentclass{badjoke}
19:59.15Ralith:P
19:59.55``Erik(which is probably why it's pronounced luh-TEK... UNIX embraced the jokes, though...)
20:00.22RalithI thought it was lah-tek
20:00.32``Eriklah, luh, whatever
20:00.49brlcadRalith: remember to leave ample time for discussion
20:01.06Ralithinterestingly, I read that the author(s) have no position on its pronounciation.
20:01.32brlcadthat's often not included in estimates, but particularly relevant for gsoc work as the communication is argubly the primary product
20:02.10``Erikhm, of which, LaTeX or TeX? there's some inherited pronounciation going on
20:02.25Ralithbrlcad: point.  There are times when discussion is of minimal necessity, though; I doubt there's need to debate very much of, for example, the how to hook Qt into OGRE, simply because there's probably only a few ways.
20:02.29Ralith``Erik: the former.
20:02.36RalithTeX has a well defined pronunciation.
20:03.28``Erikmebbe the lah/luh/lay part is where no position comes in, and TeX's is assumed for the latter part? *shrug*
20:03.34``Eriknerd etymology, pheer
20:03.40Ralithhehe
20:03.46Ralithmetanerdiness!
20:04.30``Erikyes, do include things like communication, documentation, etc in the estimations
20:05.38brlcadRalith: true, plus much of the discussion and design is already sorted out in prototype form via IOE
20:05.42``Erikheh, what's the (industry) heuristic? guess how long it'll take, double that for the surprises, double it again for all the other crap? O:-)
20:06.06brlcadbut if there are unclear points (e.g. on IOE or appearance/behavior), then those should generally at least be commented on
20:06.07Ralithdouble it until you get bored.
20:06.10Ralithwell sure
20:06.25Raliththat's what IRC's here for ^^
20:07.49``Erikirc's for hashing stuff out or asking questions, but the answer should probably be written up in a more useful fashion for searching or getting an overview, no?
20:07.53brlcadi'll just be happy if it's an empty shell that does absolutely nothing except has all the framework hooks in for new command bindings, tabbed contexts, the menu, and appearance/bindings working :)
20:08.18Ralithappearance/bindings?
20:08.28Ralithwould be happy with that too.
20:08.32brlcadthe custom apperance overrides
20:08.42Ralithwould then be even happier to hook it up to things after SoC's over :D
20:09.05RalithI don't recall hearing/talking about that
20:09.07brlcadif you recall in IOE, there are some universal keybindings (to bring up the command-prompt overlay for example) and some context specific bindings (e.g., go to end of line)
20:09.13Ralithyeah
20:10.02brlcadmaking it "look" like IOE or similar to it will be work in itself (as default Qt appearance is rather not useful)
20:10.19brlcadother than a starting point
20:11.40brlcadinheriting from their tabbed widget, for example, so it can be drawn cleanly integrated with the opengl context
20:12.09brlcad(ala stellarium's inherited widgets)
20:13.03Ralithhm, tabbing's an interesting problem there
20:13.28Ralithoh hey
20:13.33Ralithit supports nested OpenGL contexts
20:13.36Ralithso that would actually work fine
20:13.51Ralith(iirc; I remember seeing an impressive demo of something of the sort)
20:16.32Ralithafks for a couple hours
20:16.59Ralithhm, not sure how that would work out with Ogre.
20:17.04Ralithprobably wouldn't. might need some fancy code there.
20:17.11brlcadI think the most important pieces to the interface 'framework' are going to be a command terminal, a debug output/logging console (perhaps one in the same), then the command overlay, followed by switchable (tabbed) contexts, the 3D context, then the menu ... but that's off the cuff
20:17.28brlcadogre is just handed a graphics context and goes to town rendering in that context
20:17.37brlcadyou're not using ogre to create the window or the graphics context
20:17.49brlcadone of it's lower-level initialization paths iirc
20:18.11Ralithyeah, but I'm not sure how that works out with the tabbed contexts
20:18.27Ralithwill discuss more later; I'm about to be late to a class.
20:18.28brlcadyou're a qt app with ogre embedded, not an ogre app with qt widgets embedded
20:18.34brlcadokay, cya ;)
20:20.57brlcadas for tabbed contexts, you'll probably need some sort of context+content manager so when a given tab is activated, it simple tells ogre to render a different scene graph (which may be nothing) and draws its overlay for that tab widget directly to the ogl context
20:21.30brlcad(so there's still just one ogl context ever, but you keep track of what gets drawn to that context with some manager class)
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20:29.19indianlarrycd
20:38.55``Eriksteps down from his screen soap box before indianlarry stomps him
20:39.37brlcadheh
20:51.29starseekerwell, chased him out anyway ;-)
20:56.34``Eriknah, I just told him the 3 commands he'll use when he starts using it and suggested stealing someones hardstatus line
20:56.48``Erikdid a little d&p show
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21:32.17``Erik<PROTECTED>
21:32.21``Erikheh
22:13.03Ralithreturns!
22:13.11brlcadheh
22:13.21brlcadgoes to see the new terminator
22:14.12Ralithenjoy
22:14.25brlcadhopefully not teh suck
22:14.45starseekercrosses fingers
23:06.28madantcrosses fingers and toes
23:19.07``ErikO.o
23:19.19``Erikguesses it's just a bunch of action, no story
23:26.05madantthinks or worse little action and no story
23:28.00``Erikthey showed a 5 minute clip of the movie during some show I was watching a few days ago, seemed like they were pretty big on action from that (naturally, they picked the most "action-packed" part, though)
23:34.42madanttrailers are always misleading ;)
23:35.02madantoops..5 minute clip..not trailer..
23:35.21madantok must be good for the eyes then ..
23:46.13``Eriksome big assault by the humans on a robot station, a10's and helicoptors all over, made a big point about a terminator unit that got knocked down being landed on by a helicoptor (skid crushing part of it) and one of the guys that jumped out putting two rounds in its skulls so its eyes go out
23:46.43``ErikI have no context as to what part it is, but *shrug* I imagine it wouldn't matter in that flick :D
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090522

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090522

00:05.33Ralithhasn't terminator always been about lots of action and minimal story?
00:05.51Ralithits unabashed approach to that has always been one of its good points, I thought.
00:06.42``Erikwell, pretty much, but the first one sorta kinda had a nifty paradoxical story as the setup
00:09.18*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net)
00:15.41dreeves__brlcad I believe so I have seen that documented somewhere in the opennurbs stuff so just to make sure we are talking about the same thing we are talking about trim loops
00:16.36dreeves__each face loop has it own set of trim loops and the first is an outer (trim) loop and the higher increments are inner (holes) loops
00:26.07Ralithone thing I don't get
00:26.29Raliththe first(?) terminator shouldn't have been melted down
00:26.35Ralithbecause time travel
00:26.46Ralithit'd have known that it would have been futile.
00:40.14``Eriknifty, the did a testdrive of my car today, they just need to get some codes reset and clean it up for me
00:40.18``Erikmight have it back tomorrie
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02:51.18brlcaddreeves__: yeah, I confirmed shortly afterwards in my follow-up comments too
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03:18.17yukonbobbrlcad: consesus on Terminator?
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07:55.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34580 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: sync with Makefile.am
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14:00.41brlcad~dict consesus
14:01.00brlcadyukonbob: it was okay, I liked it better than 3
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14:36.07``Erik*grumble*
14:43.12_clock__~dict definition
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15:48.03madanthowdy hippieindamakin8
15:48.19hippieindamakin8hey madant :)
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17:50.21madanthippieindamakin8, sorry was out . dinner.. how are things . where are you ? bangalore ?
17:50.47hippieindamakin8madant, still in  kanpur dude ,
17:51.05madantoh. i thought you were going to bangalore for some days ?
17:53.02hippieindamakin8madant, i shall in june and july. too much of work here :| . btw none of my friends are in town either, i ll get bored sitting at home all day long ;)
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21:29.56mafmsup cadheads
21:30.01mafmgsoc heating up :P
22:13.06starseekerdreeves__: Could you newton iterate over the trimming curve to find the closest point?
22:17.37starseekerhmm:  http://tog.acm.org/GraphicsGems/gems/NearestPoint.c
22:18.51starseekerThere is a routine in there called MakePiecewiseBezier, iirc...
22:20.06starseeker"All code here can be used without restrictions." http://tog.acm.org/GraphicsGems/
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23:20.46pacman87_is waiting in line for graduation :)
23:21.12pacman87_been out of touch for a while
23:21.18madantis waiting to listen to Micarelli's interlude :P
23:22.11madantnot literally typing from a line are you ?
23:22.31pacman87_i've been trying to get three monitors woeking with one nvidia card and one ati
23:22.59pacman87_and yes, typing in line :)
23:23.26madantonly thinks about how to resuscitate his laptop and desktop and has forgotten about monitors
23:23.50pacman87_ipod touch + wifi + ssh + screen + irssi
23:24.02madantsweet :)
23:24.12pacman87_yup :$
23:24.14pacman87_:)
23:25.24madantkinda makes scenes from the big bang theory noob-level :P
23:27.18pacman87_my gf introduced me to that show, i love it
23:47.09madantthinks his sense of humour has been too traumatized by southpark to enjoy sitcoms
23:48.15madantthough "accidentally" watching an epsiode of Numb3rs never fails to almost choke me to death with laughter :D
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090523

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090523

00:04.07``ErikO.
00:04.09``ErikO.o even
00:04.32``ErikI either watch "stupid comedy" or throw it on one of the history channels
00:13.26yukonbob<PROTECTED>
00:14.27yukonbobfeh
00:15.02``Erik15? sheesh
00:15.19``ErikI tend to stack slower channels into the same window
01:12.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r34581 10/jbrlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
01:12.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: Fixed a bug where a Ray missing a BoxNode resultsed in a NPE.
01:12.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: Added support for vertex normal averaging in PreppedTriangle. (jBrlcad now raytraces Sean's SMOOTHBOT correctly, although about an order of magnitude slower than brl-cad)
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02:26.52madantheh.. long read http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200906/happiness
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16:25.11jdolinerthe game is afoot!
17:14.18jdolinerbrlcad
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17:37.07brlcadjdoliner: heh woo hoo!
17:37.26jdolinerwoo hoo
17:38.04jdolinerokay I've succesfully added a file in librt and I have it working with the makefile
17:38.20jdolinerso that's one small accomplishment
17:39.17jdolinermy first step is to add in additional polynomial functionality
17:39.25jdolinerI've looked around in poly.c
17:40.05jdolinerand it certainly needs to be extended for what I'm doing
17:40.24jdolinerbut I wanted to make sure there weren't some polynomial functions hiding somewhere else that I wasn't finding
17:40.38jdolinerparticularly do you have anything for computing sturm sequences?
17:50.13brlcadnumerics generally do get generalized and separated out into libbn (brl-cad numerics library)
17:50.30brlcadlibrt's poly.c is in flux, moving to libbn
17:51.12brlcadmadant's sf patch takes care of it, just haven't fully finished testing it yet (anything that affects ray-tracing has to go through more extensive testing)
17:51.50brlcadI don't think we have anything specific to sturm, but should rummage around and survey what's in libbn regardless
17:52.20brlcadas well as src/other/tnt
17:52.57brlcadthat latter has more specific routines various vector/matrix operations
17:54.15jdolinerokay and this also seems to suggest that I should put sturm's work in libbn
17:54.45brlcadwhat exactly is it?
17:55.20jdolinerit's an efficient way to compute the number of roots of a multivariate polynomial
17:55.41brlcadno I mean implementation-wise
17:55.42jdolinerand it's good for giving you and idea where they are
17:56.12brlcadexists as a set of C-functions, or just the general technique itself?
17:56.18jdolinerit works like a euclidean algorithm taking successive remainders from polynomial division
17:56.20brlcadi.e. something you'd need to implement
17:56.26jdolinerwhich you guys do have
17:56.34jdolinerI noticed there's polynomial division
17:56.40brlcadyes
17:56.45jdolinerbut remainders can be computed faster by not dividing
17:56.57jdolinerand in this case the speed boost is needed
17:58.03brlcadbecause you have run some tests and encountered a performance problem? :)
17:58.19jdolinerI haven't run any tests personally
17:58.29jdolinerI've been reading the literature from other projects though
17:58.49brlcadthen claiming a 'need' for speed is bogus :)
17:59.12brlcadnot that a speedup wouldn't be nice, it's always nice, but it also might not matter -- lot of other factors
17:59.55jdolinerthat's true
18:00.24jdolinerwell then perhaps the most prudent thing is to implement sturm sequences using the old routine (in a wrapper)
18:00.38jdolinerand then we'll see how long it takes when we do some real life tests
18:00.48brlcadcase in point, I actually had an inclination that our poly solver was slow so it was isolated and direclty compared against every other solver implementation I could get my hands on (which was about 9 at the time)
18:01.38brlcadturned out that our solver implementation actually outperformed  all of them with same results (a couple came within 10%)
18:01.47brlcadwhich was flat out surprising frankly
18:02.42brlcadso yeah, I'd just wrap it if that's quickest -- and make it easy enough to refactor out if it turns out to be an issue
18:03.59brlcadshould be able to test that pretty earily on if you're set on using sturm sequences in the first place
18:04.21jdolineryeah
18:05.10jdolinerand I have a general idea of how high a degree of polynomials we need to be able to solve efficiently
18:09.18brlcadhigh-degree polynomials might outright make libbn unsuitable (at least librt's newtonian-based solver)
18:09.39brlcadkeep an eye out for validity if you jack up the compile-time limite
18:13.19jdolinerk
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20:47.16starseekerbrlcad: Here's that durable paper I was talking about for BRL-CAD cheat sheets:  http://www.xerox.com/Static_HTML/never_tear/index.shtml
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20:50.20``Erikmake it work, then make it fast
22:51.08starseeker``Erik: hmm?
22:51.28starseekeroh, you mean jdoliner's solver?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090524

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090524

01:33.01*** join/#brlcad madant_ (n=madant@117.196.135.248)
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19:14.30pacman87_my cousin died last week, funeral is monday, so i'll be out of touch until tuesday
19:15.34*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
19:31.03brlcadtake all the time you need, family first
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21:47.14``Erikugh, sorry to hear it, pacman :(
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090525

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090525

00:07.36*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
01:45.05*** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@adsl-75-22-23-177.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net)
01:45.42dlifailed in building 7.14.8, http://pastebin.ca/1433409
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02:27.30brlcaddli: you're libX11 is apparently dependent upon some other library that you don't have
02:27.47dlibrlcad, thanks :(
02:28.01dlibrlcad, does brlcad uses xcb?
02:30.40brlcadnope
02:30.49brlcadthat has nothing to do with us, just your libX11
02:31.12dlibrlcad, that answer my question, thanks
02:31.25brlcada bit unusual that it's linking against /usr/lib64/libX11.a
02:31.55dlibrlcad, should be a gentoo issue.
02:31.59brlcadnormally would be a dynamic library
02:32.03brlcada .so
02:32.17dlibrlcad, yes, but I got a static libX11.a
02:33.23brlcadobviously
02:33.29brlcadthat's what I'm saying is unusual
02:33.54dlibrlcad, gentoo doesn't give me a choice, seems to be the default
02:34.01brlcadvery likely related to the unresolved symbols
02:34.22brlcadeh, that not the case on my gentoo boxes
02:35.26dlibrlcad, ah, I have both from the libX11 package: /usr/lib64/libX11.so /usr/lib64/libX11.la
02:35.59brlcadthen even more odd that it'd be linking in /usr/lib64/libX11.a instead of /usr/lib64/libX11.so -- that's not the compiler default
02:36.20brlcad/usr/lib64/libX11.la can override but it would only do so if told to try to link something static
02:37.25brlcadactually.. it looks like you did force the build to static
02:37.35brlcadwhat were your configure options?
02:37.39dli<PROTECTED>
02:37.40dliusr/share/brlcad --with-tag --disable-debug --enable-optimized --enable-debug=no --enable-runtime-debug=no --with-ogl
02:39.48dlibrlcad, that's all :(
02:40.46brlcad--with-tag??
02:41.02dlibrlcad, I can remove that
02:41.11brlcad--disable-debug is redundant with --enable-debug=no
02:41.29dlibrlcad, yes, I can clean up with that
02:41.57brlcadslim to nil chance that --enable-nx-build will do anything useful for you
02:42.46dlibrlcad, but still why static :(
02:42.49brlcadunless you dished out the 10k to siemens for a license..
02:43.49dliremoved those options
02:45.53brlcadhard to say really, but having too many and unnecessary options does complicate the tests
02:46.17brlcaddid the configure summary say it was only going to build static?
02:46.19dlibrlcad, forget it, I did "revdep-rebuild", found lots of broken linking to xcb
02:46.40brlcadwell that just means you have two problems :)
02:46.49dlibrlcad, let me try again with with the new configure options
02:46.52brlcadlibX11.a should be linkable, that's a separate issue
02:47.01brlcadit shouldn't be linking static, though .. that'll be a huge compile
02:47.18brlcadread the configure summary -- it'll say whether it'll build shared/dynamic libs
02:47.40brlcadBuild static libraries ...............: yes
02:47.42dlibrlcad, scanelf: rpath_security_checks(): Security problem NULL DT_RPATH in /var/tmp/portage/sci-misc/brlcad-7.14.8/image/usr/brlcad/bin/fedex_plus
02:47.46brlcadBuild shared/dynamic libraries .......: yes
02:48.41brlcadfedex is a new external code -- nothing uses it yet
02:49.00brlcadpart of the new step importer (which is incomplete)
02:49.17dlibrlcad, I have to disable it explicitly, then
02:51.08brlcadpretty easily done
02:51.21dlibrlcad, didn't find in ./configure --help
02:51.30brlcad--disable-step-build
02:52.01brlcadall your --enable-*=no options are the same as --disable-*
02:52.21dlibrlcad, thanks, I will clean up those too
02:53.17dlibrlcad, so, --enable*=yes, the '=yes' part can be omitted too
02:54.15brlcadheh, yes
02:54.23brlcadtechnically those are just wrong
02:54.45dlibrlcad, good, rebuilding now
02:56.05brlcadis there a reason you don't just try the default configure first?  see if that works?
02:56.31dlibrlcad, just "./configure" ?
02:56.39brlcadsure
02:56.49dlibrlcad, I remember brlcad messed up my sys /usr/lib badly:(
02:57.01brlcadnope
02:57.10brlcad--prefix=/usr did that
02:57.18dlibrlcad, so, I moved everything to /usr/brlcad
02:57.19brlcadthat's why it tells you to not do that
02:57.35brlcaddefault is to install *everything* isolated into /usr/brlcad
02:57.40dlibrlcad, I guess the software changed since then
02:57.49brlcadno, it's always been that way
02:58.07brlcadyou fed it a prefix, common mistake
02:58.40dlibrlcad, I think gentoo scripts add --prefix=/usr by default
02:59.02brlcadpossibly, but that still wouldn't be our configure doing it :)
02:59.48dlibrlcad, yes, indeed, my config.log shows: --prefix=/usr --prefix=/usr/brlcad
02:59.55brlcadit's one of our specific design philosophies to install isolated into /usr/brlcad
03:00.42dlibrlcad, I see, all gentoo ebuilds tried to use default configure, but ended up with --prefix=/usr by gentoo
03:01.16brlcadthere's a ebuild option to set that
03:02.24brlcadno matter, if you just "reset" the prefix like you did, it should be fine
03:02.58brlcadit's the mess of others that make things more complicated than they need to be
03:03.18brlcadunless you're specifically creating a new ebuild for portage, it's unnecessary
03:05.13dlibrlcad, found it, --prefix=/usr is added by "econf", I should use ./configure instead
03:06.16dlibrlcad, does the default configure do /usr/lib64 instead of /usr/lib ?
03:09.36brlcad"do"?
03:10.10dlibrlcad, sets to /usr/lib64 instead of /usr/lib ?
03:10.19brlcadsets what?
03:10.41brlcadbrlcad will install libs into /usr/brlcad
03:10.53brlcad/usr/brlcad/lib to be specific
03:11.07brlcadwhat it'll *use* depends on your system
03:11.20dlibrlcad, then, it doesn't matter /usr/brlcad/lib or /usr/brlcad/lib64, I need to set LDPATH those myself
03:11.21brlcadyou had no configure options telling it what to use
03:11.38dlibrlcad, thanks, let me try again
03:11.53brlcadright, you don't even need to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH
03:12.02brlcadunless you plan on developing brl-cad applications
03:12.09brlcadand even then you don't need it
03:12.27dlibrlcad, good, my ebuild is much cleaner now
03:14.22dli<PROTECTED>
03:15.17dlino, I don't need --datadir either
03:18.29brlcadseriously, why so many?
03:18.34brlcadget it working first
03:18.41brlcadthen add all those insane options :)
03:18.49brlcadmany of those do absolutely nothing
03:18.54brlcadas they are the default
03:19.28brlcadtwo of them are strongly not recommended and will even likely cause you problems .. yet you've added them ..
03:19.35brlcad(the last two)
03:20.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34582 10/brlcad/trunk/INSTALL: minor typo
03:43.52dlibrlcad, I got 7.14.8 running now, thanks
03:51.40brlcadcool
03:52.07brlcadtutorials on the website ;)
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08:26.33elenahi
08:54.01brlcadg'morning elena
09:02.45elenahi brlcad. how are you?
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09:33.32brlcadelena: great, nice long weekend in effect
10:08.00elenabrlcad: it's still sunday there?
10:56.03``Erikno, GMT-5
10:58.32``Erikhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_Day is the long weekend part he's referring to, I'd imagine :)
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12:32.39*** part/#brlcad elena (n=opera@92.86.0.28)
12:45.29brlcadplus I think I need to take leave tomorrow
12:49.40``Erikah
12:50.02``Erikwhen is ellie getting the facelift?
12:55.49brlcadhave to give them a call -- it was 'today' but mischeduled (as they're not open) and tomorrow looks like a no-go if I'm out of state still
13:01.52``Erikheh
13:01.57``Erikis still waiting for his car back
13:02.03``Erikmebbe I'll call it... bertha... or helga...
13:02.28``Erikmost likely, "a car"
13:05.50``Erikbrunhilde?
13:09.11``Erikah, I got it, curbeater... no, wait
14:06.27brlcadcurbie
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14:07.15brlcadelle is probably going to get dirty this week
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17:21.13elenahi madant
17:29.41brlcadnifty, http://john.freml.in/
17:38.43madant_hi elena, brlcad :)
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18:10.26``ErikBAH!
18:10.30``Erikgoing offroading with it?
18:17.26brlcadrain/storms dirty wet roads
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18:45.53mafmUS Army Will Upgrade To Windows Vista -- http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/GvZgt_xa43I/article.pl
18:46.07mafmhope that doesn't affect you, poor cadheads :)
18:55.09alex_jonimafm: ouch
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19:44.37jdolinerwhat on earth do "discards qualifiers" arguments mean?
19:46.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r34583 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/numerics/Matrix.java: mult() method was ignoring scale!!!!!
19:46.28jdolineri'm getting one when I try: line.from =
19:46.33jdolinerline.from = point;
19:56.12brlcadconst is a qualifier
19:56.44brlcadsetting a non-const pointer to a const pointer discards that qualifier
20:01.54jdolineroh I see, I had my output parameter set as a constant
20:01.58jdolinerwhich is no good at all
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21:53.19Ralithmafm: oh wow
21:55.35brlcadahh, darn.  found my backups of jason's brep work, and unfortunately my recolllections were correct in that there was no piston model there
22:04.30starseekerbrlcad: ouch
22:04.46starseekervirtues of using open models as test cases :-)
22:05.21starseekerwonders if the siggraph guys forgot this was a holiday weekend when they put together the poster submission timeline
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23:07.07starseekerdownloads this small, fast webserver called teepeedee2
23:10.49starseeker``Erik: looks like uncommon web may have another application to borg into its list of required libs ;-)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090526

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090526

00:03.13mafma webserver in lisp... I feel a strong disturbance in the force, as if 1 billion souls ceased to be
00:03.18mafm;)
00:55.41``Erikshush, you... my thumb screams that this is tomorrow
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06:03.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34584 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/ (6 files in 6 dirs):
06:03.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: indicate that all of the step libs shouldn't be version-managed by libtool so
06:03.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: that it doesn't create bogus/meaningless version suffixes. add -avoid-version
06:03.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: -no-undefined to hint libtool accordingly. this is in response to sf (build
06:03.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: system) bug 2796656 from pedro (incorrect numbering of shared libraries).
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10:49.37d-loMernin all!!
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11:31.25elenahi
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11:51.56louipcwoo
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13:14.38``Erikyargh, matey, shiver me timbers
13:17.14d-loavast!
13:22.43brlcadarr.
13:38.34``Erikand it's not even sept 19th
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13:53.27starseekerbrlcad: autoreconf is failing on the mac with that last commit
14:01.28brlcadstarseeker: yeah, I got a mail, just haven't got a build failure here  yet to see what fix is needed
14:02.06brlcadprobably the addition of -no-unresolved
14:02.24brlcadwhich means those libs are missing dependencies/libadd declarations
14:02.52starseekersrc/express/Makefile.am:50: linker flags such as `-avoid-version' belong in `libexpress_nil_la_LDFLAGS
14:03.09brlcadah, oops
14:03.12brlcadthat's a trivial fix
14:04.28CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34585 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/express/Makefile.am: this file swapped the var ordering on one of the libs, flags go on FLAGS
14:06.19brlcadeffectively a typo
14:06.23starseekeryep, that got it
14:06.37starseekerthanks :-)
14:07.01brlcadmight still fail during compile because of no-undefined, that I couldn't test
14:07.10brlcadand is platform-specific
14:07.37starseekerwill try
14:10.08starseekeryeah,  build failed
14:12.25brlcadhas to take elle in to the doctor, back after lunch
14:12.37starseekerwinces
14:12.40starseekerok, luck!
14:12.54starseekerfeels his wallet flinching in sympathy
14:15.55brlcadit's all covered
14:18.04starseekerah, that's nice :-)
14:39.50*** join/#brlcad pieromorelli (n=pieromor@diem149.ing.unibo.it)
14:41.42pieromorellihi everybody, I am a newby of brlcad. Question: is there an extensive documentation for mged commands?
14:51.15starseekersee this for a start:  http://brlcad.org/w/images/c/cf/Introduction_to_MGED.pdf
14:51.46pieromorellialready done... I was looking for something more complete...
14:53.19*** join/#brlcad BigATo1 (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-117.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
14:57.53starseekerthe appendex to that volume is probably the most complete command list at the moment
15:17.30*** join/#brlcad elena (n=opera@92.86.0.28)
15:17.33*** part/#brlcad elena (n=opera@92.86.0.28)
17:17.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34586 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/librt/librt.vcproj: Update windows build (i.e. add source files to build).
17:25.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34587 10/brlcad/trunk/ (10 files in 6 dirs): Added ptranslate to libged for primitive attribute translation. Used by libtclcad and Archer.
17:39.38*** join/#brlcad jdoliner_ (n=jdoliner@wireless-194-244.uchicago.edu)
18:28.26*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@wireless-203-110.uchicago.edu)
18:29.11brlcadhowdy jdoliner
18:29.19brlcadtwice over :)
19:02.29brlcadmutters "MGED Command Guide" to starseeker :)
19:02.35brlcadcollection of manual pages for all commands
19:02.42brlcadthe in-mged help probably would have helped him too
19:08.39starseekerer, yeah
19:08.54starseekerhangs head in shame
19:15.08brlcadpwd
19:19.44starseekerprint working directory?
19:20.37brlcad~ww
19:20.37ibotWrong window pansie
19:25.38brlcadhm, tcl/tk is installing with bad permissions
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20:34.20*** join/#brlcad suryajith (n=suryajit@202.3.77.38)
20:38.03*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@wireless-197-153.uchicago.edu)
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20:59.21*** join/#brlcad suryajith (n=suryajit@202.3.77.38)
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22:49.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r34588 10/jbrlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 6 dirs): Added support for Torus
22:50.52*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net)
22:54.16CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34589 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/ (tcl/unix/Makefile.in tk/unix/Makefile.in): tcl/tk libraries and binaries are still being installed without go+r access making the install tree uncopiable. make sure everything is g+rwx making the bins/libs be 775 on install.
23:46.41*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-98-227-157-38.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090527

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090527

00:18.07pacman87_8fglrx wiki
00:18.18pacman87_wrong keyboard
00:35.39*** join/#brlcad SRabbelier (n=sverre@216.239.45.19)
00:35.45SRabbelierpacman87_: ping
00:36.55SRabbelierpacman87_: you pasted http://pastebin.com/mba1c04e ? :P
00:37.15SRabbelierpacman87_: if you did, did you solve it? :P
00:37.19pacman87_SRabbelier: yeah
00:37.30SRabbelierpacman87_: (do you happen to have a Lenovo laptop? :P)
00:37.41pacman87_no, home-built desktop
00:38.17SRabbelierpacman87_: ok, how did you fix the error? :D
00:38.43pacman87_http://pastebin.com/f38ca14ee
00:39.05SRabbelierpacman87_: win, where'd you find that? :P
00:39.11pacman87_google
00:39.24pacman87_from the phoronix forums, i think
00:39.41pacman87_http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15165
00:39.48SRabbelierpacman87_: cool, where do I apply the patches to though? I mean, where are the sources stored?
00:40.00pacman87_you tried running the install script?
00:40.04pacman87_and it failed?
00:40.50SRabbelierpacman87_: well, I tried running the ati-driver-installer-9-5-x86.x86_64.run
00:41.16pacman87_ok, the sources should be in /lib/modules/fglrx
00:41.26SRabbelierpacman87_: and after running it my x11 woulnd't start, so I reverted the xorg.conf, and checked /usr/share/ati/fglrx-install.log
00:42.19SRabbelierpacman87_: ah, let me try the make_install.sh manually, see if it's what the ati-driver... thing is using
00:42.37pacman87_it is, and it failed for me
00:42.39SRabbelierah, yup
00:42.48SRabbelierthe build_mod/make.sh one too
00:42.53pacman87_right
00:42.58pacman87_you have to make the changes first
00:43.06SRabbelierright
00:44.47SRabbelierpacman87_: mhhh, the patch doesn't apply http://pastebin.com/d111d9d76
00:45.14pacman87_did you try it?
00:45.37pacman87_build_mod/make.sh first
00:45.55SRabbelierpacman87_: oh wait, you're right, I saw a whole bunch of warnings, thought it was the same error as first
00:46.08SRabbelierpacman87_: instant win!
00:46.18pacman87_do you know how do get dual head working?
00:46.23pacman87_that's what i'm stuck on atm
00:46.48pacman87_without xinerama, the second screen is all black, and the mouse goes to an X when i move to it
00:46.49SRabbelierpacman87_: I was hoping the cataclist centre would help there
00:47.03pacman87_not really
00:47.22SRabbelier:(
00:47.23pacman87_i was hoping there'd be documentation for how to do the xorg.conf
00:47.35pacman87_but my google skills are failing me
00:49.38SRabbelierpacman87_: bummer
00:49.47SRabbelierbrb, restarting X
00:49.48*** part/#brlcad SRabbelier (n=sverre@216.239.45.19)
00:55.49*** join/#brlcad SRabbelier (n=sverre@216.239.45.19)
00:55.55SRabbelierpacman87_: no go :(
00:56.04SRabbelierpacman87_: I get the same X11 errors
00:57.21pacman87_is the fglrx module loaded?
00:57.29pacman87_lsmod | grep fglrx
00:57.31SRabbeliernope xD
00:57.39SRabbelierpacman87_: doesn't ./make_install.sh install it?
00:58.00pacman87_yeah, but it doesn't load it
00:58.24SRabbelierpacman87_: ah, ok, I successfully insmodded the module
00:58.38pacman87_and?
00:58.47SRabbelierpacman87_: I don't know till I kill x again will I :P
00:58.58SRabbeliergoes for another murder
00:59.03pacman87_crosses fingers
01:02.21*** join/#brlcad SRabbelier (n=sverre@216.239.45.19)
01:03.08SRabbelierpacman87_: no win
01:03.20SRabbelierpacman87_: http://pastebin.com/d6848063c :(
01:03.58SRabbelierpacman87_: and there's actually a /dev/dri/card0 now
01:06.11SRabbeliergoes try http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/unable-to-start-x-after-installing-fglrx-669163/#post3277660
01:06.13SRabbelierbrb again!
01:06.14*** part/#brlcad SRabbelier (n=sverre@216.239.45.19)
01:15.11*** join/#brlcad SRabbelier (n=sverre@216.239.45.19)
01:15.15SRabbelierpacman87_: instant win!
01:15.20brlcadheh
01:15.36SRabbelierbrlcad: sorry for abusing your channel for a totally offtopic discussion :P
01:15.55SRabbelierbrlcad: I just happened to find pacman87_'s post, then found his nickname and that he hangs out here :P
01:17.35pacman87_i'm also in #ati and #xorg
01:18.13SRabbelierpacman87_: hehe
01:19.45brlcadSRabbelier: perfectly alright when there's not an on-topic discussion underway
01:19.53SRabbelierbrlcad: sweet
01:20.07SRabbelieris really happy with his now-working videocard
01:20.19brlcad:)
01:20.25pacman87_i'm still trying to get dual-head working
01:21.28SRabbelierpacman87_: the display manager tab of Catalyst doesn't help you?
01:21.42pacman87_amdcccle?
01:21.46SRabbelierpacman87_: right
01:22.17pacman87_i can change the resolution, but the mouse is still an X and the screen is black
01:22.30pacman87_if i enable xinerama, both screens go black
01:22.37pacman87_with the X'd mouse
01:23.13SRabbelierpacman87_: ftl :(
01:27.53*** part/#brlcad SRabbelier (n=sverre@216.239.45.19)
01:34.58*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@223.Red-83-49-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
01:59.55starseekerhmm:  Direct Trimming of NURBS Surfaces on the GPU
01:59.57starseekerA highly efficient direct-trimming technique for NURBS surfaces, based on a novel point-classification scheme for curved regions including holes. This approach is applicable to tessellation-based rendering as well as to ray tracing systems.
02:02.51starseeker's curiosity is up
02:03.27starseekerwonder if that's similar to what we're trying
02:06.30starseekerreflects that it would be supremely ironic to figure out how to do that only to go to siggraph and read about it a few months later :-/
02:34.44*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=suryajit@202.3.77.38)
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03:35.29starseekerbrlcad: here's a car you might appreciate ;-) http://www.inhabitat.com/2009/05/26/green-gt-unveils-le-mans-electric-racecar/
04:01.34jdolinerbrlcad I'm having a bit of trouble compiling against openNurbs
04:02.05jdolinerI try:
04:02.35jdolinergcc intersect.cpp libopenNURBS.la -o intersect
04:02.52jdolinerand I get the libopenNURBS is an unrecognized file format
04:15.26*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
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10:54.32*** join/#brlcad pieromorelli (n=pieromor@diem149.ing.unibo.it)
10:56.37d-loMornin all!
10:58.45indianlarryhey d-lo
10:59.05indianlarrylooks like the builds on cruisecontrol are failing
11:07.27indianlarrythink i'll remove the '-no-undefined' option from the step library builds to get things rolling
11:37.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34590 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/ (6 files in 6 dirs): removed '-no-undefined' to get build rolling, will go back and resolve library dependencies
12:14.01*** join/#brlcad pieromorelli (n=pieromor@diem149.ing.unibo.it)
12:46.23*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.130.196)
12:46.53madantbrlcad: seems like i am hitting a week of backlog right at the start .
12:48.45madantbrlcad, i think i should have acess to "better computational capability" in a couple of days. will make up . at worst june 1st. will work on documentation till then.
12:52.02pieromorellidocumentation, that is the point. I miss a comprehensive handbook on mged commands... any suggestions? very very grateful thanks....
12:55.59d-lopieromorelli: Its not up-to-date, but this might get you a good starting point:
12:56.03d-lohttp://brlcad.org/wiki/MGED_Commands
12:56.21d-loonly a handful of things have changed since those wiki pages were created.
12:56.42d-lonearly all the commands still work as documented.
12:59.22pieromorellithank you very much
13:14.22madantif only mike muss et al. knew how the machine-human interface is going to change so much in 2 decades :D
13:14.36madantwho was the architect of mged ?
13:33.35louipcisn't it still mouse and keyboard?
13:42.57madantyou can almost do nothing in catia with only the keyboard :)
13:44.28starseekermuss et. al. were part of the group who defined what is "standard" today
13:44.56starseekerearly on, a lot of interface ideas we take for granted were the topic of cutting edge research
13:45.53starseekerand the command line still exposes power no GUI can
13:46.47starseekerwe can certainly take a huge leap forward in usability, but the keyboard isn't going anywhere :-)
13:47.31starseekeris though - to the roads!
13:56.50*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
14:07.58``Erik(also; modern machines seem to lack the button and knob boxes...)
14:10.13archivistI only expect to type in numbers when prompted, rest is mouse , then you can keep one hand in your pocket/eat sweets pick nose etc
15:14.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34591 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Added editing for the extrude primitive.
15:46.12*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
16:37.46*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=pacman87@pool-173-57-41-37.dllstx.fios.verizon.net)
16:58.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34592 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ (Arb8EditFrame.tcl GeometryEditFrame.tcl): Remove the value entry panel.
17:06.35*** join/#brlcad elena (n=elena@89.136.118.141)
17:08.41*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-98-227-157-38.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
17:10.02pacman87_checking for Tcl configuration... configure: WARNING: Can't find Tcl configuration definitions  
17:15.24pacman87_forgot to --enable-tcl-build --enable-tk-build
17:19.52pacman87_make[2]: Entering directory `/home/brlcad/brlcad/src/libged'
17:19.53pacman87_make[2]: *** No rule to make target `rotate_extrude.lo', needed by `libged_nil.la'.  Stop.
17:26.37``Erikmight need to automake src/libged/Makefile (or re-run autogen.sh if'n auto* is all voodoo for ya)
17:28.05d-loVoodoo:  I don't thing that word means what joo thing it means.....
17:29.24elenahi.
17:29.47pacman87hi elena
17:30.40elenahi pacman. how are your hardware projects going on?
17:31.02elenaembedded system homeworks, i believe.
17:31.55pacman87elena: all finished, school's been out for ~2 weeks
17:32.07elenareally, that soon? nice.
17:32.55pacman87i've been fighting with the fglrx driver for the last few days
17:33.13elenaubuntu jaunty?
17:33.22pacman87``Erik: rerunning autogen.sh didn't help
17:33.34pacman87elena: nope, slackware64-current
17:33.55elenawe fighted it last week. it won.
17:34.05pacman87had to dig up a patch to get the module to compile
17:34.30pacman87now i'm trying to get it to ignore the edid info so i can use the resolution i want
17:34.36pacman87and avoid 60 hz refresh
17:34.47d-lopacman87: 'make distclean' then './autogen.sh' ?
17:36.58pacman87eta 5 min
17:40.17``Erikd-lo: some people believe auto* is sorcery that involves chicken blood, magic charms, etc... :D
17:40.45pacman87same error again
17:42.07``Erikhm, probably means the Makefile isn't being regenerated correctly (or the .in file), check the timestamps?
17:42.57pacman87timestamps on which files exactly?
17:43.01``Eriksees rotate_extrude.c in his Makefile.am
17:43.04d-lohas chicken bones on a string hanging from his Windows machine
17:43.04``ErikMakefile*
17:44.43``ErikMakefile.am should be the oldest (and reasonably new), Makefile should be the newest. if the clock changes (or nfs goes gimpy), it can confuse stuff pretty badly
17:45.15``Erikhuh, the last update I did gives me the same error, nifty
17:45.25pacman87Makefile.am is 11:38, Makefile.in is 12:45, Makefile is 12:36
17:45.30pacman87fresh checkout
17:45.50d-loNIFTI:  Naval Infrared Firefighting Thermal Imager
17:47.15``Erikah, the .deps files can't being filled correctly
17:49.26``Eriker, aren't
17:49.27``Erikheh
17:56.18``Erikpacman: your makefile isn't being regenerated, make sure you're using gnumake (sometimes other makes don't play well)
17:57.07pacman87_$ make --version
17:57.09pacman87_GNU Make 3.81
18:09.25pacman87lunchtime
18:11.21d-lohammertime!
18:12.56``Erikgrabs a hammer and looks for d-lo O.o
18:13.12d-locan't touch this.
18:13.21d-lo=D
18:35.33*** join/#brlcad elena (n=elena@89.136.118.141)
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19:27.16d-loRalith: How goes the project?
19:40.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34593 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ (17 files): A little cleanup.
19:45.16d-lofyi ``Erik pacman87 , I checked out a new copy of the repo and am getting that same error.  (make[2]: *** No rule to make target `rotate_extrude.lo', needed by `libged_nil.la'.  Stop.)
20:35.25``Erikyes, I'm poking at it a little. It's creating files in the .deps directory that have no content (other than a single line that says "#dummy")
20:39.06``Eriksilly windows user, +x isn't for C source
20:39.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34594 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (20 files): remove svn:executable prop on .c files.
20:46.23``Erikwell now
20:46.25``Erikthat'd be why
20:48.09``Erikhurrrr, someone forgot to add the new .c files
20:51.59*** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
20:52.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34595 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (rotate_extrude.c scale_extrude.c translate_extrude.c): Added editing for the extrude primitive.
20:53.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34596 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (rotate_extrude.c scale_extrude.c translate_extrude.c): remove svn:executable prop on .c files.
21:44.38*** join/#brlcad Feltenix (n=Tanstaaf@adsl-074-166-075-102.sip.asm.bellsouth.net)
21:45.32Feltenixquick question, can brlcad import iges files and export dxf files?
21:47.41starseekeryes, and yes
21:47.47starseekeriges-g and g-dxf
21:48.57Feltenixthanks
21:49.13*** part/#brlcad Feltenix (n=Tanstaaf@adsl-074-166-075-102.sip.asm.bellsouth.net)
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22:57.35Ralithhey d-lo; a little bit delayed while I deal with my school's inexplicable enthusiasm for end-of-year makework.
22:57.45Ralithshan't last much longer.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090528

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090528

01:51.07*** join/#brlcad d-lo (n=claymore@bz.bzflag.bz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
01:53.14*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.130.196)
02:05.01brlcadRalith: thx
02:05.13Ralith?
02:05.13brlcadreturns from the void
02:05.34Ralith(brlcad*)
02:06.48brlcadstarseeker: thought you already had a link to that triming paper..
02:07.41brlcadjdoliner: the .la files are "libtool archive" files that can only be linked against using 'libtool'
02:08.46brlcadjdoliner: the .a and/or .so files that get installed would be what you'd link against, else you should have a Makefile.am with libtool directives
02:09.25brlcadstarseeker: nice car
02:09.57Ralithwhat's the point of a .la?
02:14.03brlcadthx was for the status update :)
02:14.16Ralith:)
02:14.25brlcad.la files encapsulate a lot of metadata information about how to build that library
02:14.46brlcadit's not a library exactly, but a set of instructions and declarations that are important to libtool
02:14.50Ralithahh.
02:14.56Ralithso it doesn't have any object code in it.
02:15.01brlcadit's a text file actually, you can see the content
02:15.13brlcadit says what object files comprise that library
02:15.19brlcadwhat flags are required
02:15.25brlcadwhat libraries it depends on
02:15.27brlcadetc
02:15.40Ralithcool
02:15.42brlcadeverything it might possibly need to know to portably link against that library static/shared
02:15.52brlcadjust a sausage detail of libtool
02:16.00Ralithon the subject of sausages
02:16.02Ralithfoods
02:16.11brlcadyou can actually use libtool directly, but you invoke it instead of gcc
02:16.23Ralithneat
02:17.40brlcade.g., this probably would have worked: libtool --mode=link gcc intersect.cpp libopenNURBS.la -o intersect
02:17.51brlcadassuming it had no other requirements
02:19.47brlcadstarseeker: surprising that thing has nearly 400hp yet still only manages 0-60 in 4 and top of 171
04:00.25yukonbobhello, cadheads
04:00.57pacman87hi yukonbob
04:02.30yukonbobwaves to pacman87
07:08.08*** join/#brlcad _clock_ (n=_sushi_@84-72-91-14.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:29.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34597 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: sync with Makefile.am
08:28.42*** join/#brlcad pacman871 (n=pacman87@bz.bzflag.bz)
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09:03.33*** part/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-98-227-157-38.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
09:09.22*** join/#brlcad pieromorelli (n=pieromor@diem149.ing.unibo.it)
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11:15.02d-loMornin all
11:41.36brlcadhowdy
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11:41.47d-lobrlcad: Everything go okay?
11:42.40brlcadyeah, mostly good news in the sense that there wasn't immediate bad news
11:43.22brlcadbut going to have open heart surgery in a few weeks
11:44.04d-loWell, I suppose thats as good of news as one could hope for.  Good to here there isn't anything immediate.
11:44.23d-loI take it the docs are confident with the pending open heart surgery?
11:48.32brlcadthat bit we don't have any info about yet
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11:48.46brlcadabout what they plan to do exactly even
11:49.11d-loah, well here's to hoping for the best!
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12:17.33bcsabaHi, I would like to read about brl-cad from develompent point of view.
12:18.00bcsabacan you suggest some resources?
12:19.30bcsabathanks in advance
12:24.05brlcadbcsaba: there's a lot of various material, the HACKING file in all distributions is a decent starting point
12:24.43brlcadas is src/README, or just asking questions in here or on the brlcad-devel mailing list
12:26.38bcsabaI tried finding something on the web page for the momemnt, but I'll check these first
12:27.04bcsabaOne question: is BRL-CAD support team working somehow?
12:43.11brlcadbcsaba: there is some developer stuff on the website as well, but I'd start with the HACKING file
12:44.02brlcadbcsaba: not sure I understand your question, support is provided here on IRC, on the forums, through the trackers, and on the mailing lists
12:44.34brlcadmost of the team's interactions are over IRC or on the brlcad-devel mailing list
12:45.04bcsabaI mean to use BRL-CAd in a team. To work team members on a project together somehow.
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12:46.39brlcadah!
12:47.36brlcadbcsaba: brl-cad is used by teams of modelers, but the software does little automatically for you in that regard (other than mged allowing multiple clients to work on a .g simultaneously)
12:48.03brlcadthat is one of the design intents of the new modeler gui, though, and the supporting geometry service interface
12:53.15brlcadbcsaba: I take it you've not done much research into just how much open source CAD is out there? :)
12:54.14brlcadwe're by far as good as it gets and we still have a long ways to go -- many of the commercial CAD systems don't even intrinsicly support team workflows
12:54.15bcsabaYou're right, I started it now only.
12:54.48bcsabaThat's why I asked some help from experts, where to start with it.
12:56.02brlcadwhat we have going for us is history (brl-cad's been around for decades), expertise, and community .. we're set up so anyone can get involved to help make it better
12:58.27bcsabaIf someone else editing the .g file whlie I working on it too, how his/her modifications affects my work?
12:58.55bcsabaIf for example something was removed what I was just using in my work?
12:59.09brlcadit depends
12:59.53brlcadif you're using two different MGEDs then their actions will affect your work (eventually)
13:00.01brlcadif you two share an MGED instance, everything will work just fine
13:00.17brlcadMGED is the name of the main GUI editor, fwiw too :)
13:00.37brlcadMGED has the ability to have multiple simultaneous user sessions (even remote ones)
13:01.40brlcadsome actions, like ray-tracing do all their I/O at the beginning and no longer need it afterwards so if you start rendering, for example, and an edit is made to the .g, it won't matter
13:02.00brlcadi presume you mean two modelers though
13:02.31bcsabaThat's multiple session thing is something new for me, I'll check this out.
13:02.42bcsabaYes, I presumed two medelers.
13:03.25brlcadthe new GUI I referred to is going to utilize a geometry service (currently under development) which makes all I/O go through a daemon interface (ala mysqld) which will better support user sessions
13:03.51brlcadso that you can have two independent modelers working simultaneously on the same model and receive notifications of each other's work
13:04.07brlcadthat is, however, very much under development as we speak
13:04.42brlcadbcsaba: perhaps of interest, long-term development priorities: http://brlcad.org/BRL-CAD_Priorities.png
13:05.44brlcadthat covers the next four years or so
13:08.48bcsabaUnderstand. Thanks for your time and the information for now.
13:09.16bcsabaI'll read forward, and I think I'll return with knew question later too.
13:26.56starseekerbrlcad: that trimming paper is to be presented at this year's siggraph - I was figuring it hadn't been published yet
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19:33.17``Erikbrlcad: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/results.cfm?rcl_id=09V179000&searchtype=quicksearch&summary=true&refurl=rss
19:33.31``Erikdoes ellie fall into that?
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22:36.32brlcad``Erik: Elle not Ellie :)
22:37.24brlcadand no, mine is not in that range -- mine is late 2008 iirc
22:48.45``Erikheh, ok
22:49.22``Erikthe tesla roadster went for sale in that period, they sold 400 and had to recall 345 cuz of lotus screwing that up
22:50.28brlcadheh, awesome
22:50.59brlcadsome newb factory dude
22:51.42brlcad"dammit jimmy! those bolts aren't tightened to 200 psi! they should be 500psi! .. uh oh"
22:53.04``Erik('cept it'd be footpounds)
22:53.05``Erik:D
22:55.36brlcade-mails that to his dealer
22:56.14brlcadhow'd you run across that?  recall came out today..
22:56.19``ErikHN
22:56.26``Erikit'll be on slashdot in a couple days
22:56.36``Erik:D
22:58.01``Erikhttp://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-recalls-345-roadsters-2009-5
22:58.23brlcadmm.. http://www.triplepundit.com/pages/tesla-recall-setback-for-the-ev-revoluti.php
22:59.12``Erikbtw, coolness: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/05/homebrewed-cpu/
23:01.28brlcad~(375 * 500.0) + (2.0 * 100.0 * 375)
23:01.29ibot262500
23:02.14brlcadso roughly less than the cost of 1% of the cars tesla has sold to date
23:02.50``Erikhuh?
23:03.18brlcadassuming an avg repair cost of a 500 plane ticket and 2 hours at a 100/hr to send a tech over to tighten the bolts
23:03.19``Erik<-- didn't dig into numbers, just saw that 345 were recalled and 400 sold
23:03.32brlcadsays they're flying guys out to fix the problem
23:03.43``Erikif you live outside of one of their core areas
23:03.54brlcadright, upper bound of sorts
23:03.59``ErikI think the actual repair cost is neglegible compared to the 'opportunity cost'
23:04.33brlcadthe customer service reputation of "dude, the guy came to my house!" is pretty remarkable regardless of the production count :)
23:04.58``Erikyeah, it's a slick damage control move if people read down that far
23:05.19brlcadthe tesla is sweet
23:05.34brlcadheck, I might have even held out for the model S had I known that pricetag
23:05.37``Erikdon't like rolls royce and maybach do that, too? I vagually recall that they have trucks they'll dispatch to fix the car right where it is if it every breaks down
23:05.38brlcadprobably not, but maybe :)
23:06.02``Eriknext time around, when they're a little more powerful and have better range :D
23:06.09brlcadfinding a place to charge the car would have been a bitch
23:06.22brlcadwithout a garage
23:06.26``Erik*nod*
23:07.12``Erikeven with a garage, not like there're available outlets at work, or the parking lot up in delaware to look at new speakers
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23:12.52``Erikstill wants to see a car that uses a high efficiency diesel generator, capacitor bank and dc motors, similar to a freight train
23:13.43brlcadand goes all the way up to 60 mph after 60 sec but gets 200 mpg? :)
23:15.58``Eriknah, what I'm thinking is like a 20hp generator, would have the same 'burst' capability to push the motors hard for the 4 or so seconds to hit 60 in the capacitors plus some, and a bit more than enough horsepower left over to recharge the capacitors while holding highway speed
23:16.19``Erikthrow in regenerative braking for aggressive stop&go and it's all good :D
23:16.50``Erikand a lot less weight than a battery assembly
23:17.32``Erik(and the engine could run in the optimal efficiency/output range instead of being all over the place like a regular ICE car)
23:19.06``Erikwas hoping to do that to his truck, but simply lacks the time and will
23:19.52brlcadlazy!
23:20.40``Erikindeed
23:20.59``Eriktoo much code to write, too much to do around the house
23:21.34``Eriktoo much to recoup from after wow addiction :D
23:23.40``Erikmebbe I woulda if I had a two car garage, or bought a car I didn't care about putting in the garage *shrug*
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090529

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090529

00:45.46starseekergets a definite no on the siggraph poster
00:48.59starseekerwell, glad I didn't spend any more time fussing with it
01:10.56brlcadstarseeker: ahh, darn -- sorry to hear that
01:11.02brlcaddid they provide any feedback?
01:25.20starseekerthey did
01:25.41starseekergenerally, seems like it was too specialized and "niche" for siggraph
01:29.19brlcadstarseeker: nah, some posters are *way* more niche
01:30.04brlcadat least I don't buy it, curious to see the actual verbage if they provided anything
01:30.17brlcadmore believe it was just a matter of not making the N% cut line
01:30.41starseekeris working on getting a pdf of the review - one sec
01:32.55starseekerthere we go
01:34.56brlcadlooks
01:39.18starseekerReviewer #16720 wants a lot packed into a small abstract...
01:39.38brlcadwow, actually looks like you almost had it
01:40.57starseekerbasically one yea, one "nothing novel", and two "too specialized"
01:41.05brlcadfirst two were generality based while still impressive, third was a thumbs up, four was 'almost' had he thought the poster was detailed enough
01:42.24starseekeractually though tire spec -> primitive parameters was the less novel part...
01:44.29brlcadwhat the third read into was what I was talking about having you emphasize, the procedural modeling aspect
01:44.47starseekeryeah, probably
01:45.32starseekerwonders if he should finish the form1 anyway...
01:47.06starseekerI guess one take-away is to include a graphic of the poster in the "extra" materials
01:48.06brlcadoh, what gave you that idea?
01:48.29brlcadthat would have been great, think if they'd actually seen the full poster over the abstract
01:48.34starseekerthe last reviewer asking for so much detail
01:48.41brlcadah yeah
01:48.54starseekerpacked the abstract to the limit as it is...
01:50.44brlcadi'm sure there's another forum that will be great for the poster, given how close that was (and more importantly just how well put together it is)
01:50.59starseekercool :-)
01:52.08starseekerthe "well put together" is due to your help - thanks for all the time/help you put into it brlcad
01:52.40brlcadnah, you did all the heavy lifting
01:53.11starseekerit's that polish that makes all the difference though - I seem to lack the "make good color choices" gene
01:53.37starseekerglances around to make sure better half didn't see me admit that...
01:53.49brlcadhehe
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10:34.48d-loMernin all
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14:56.48brlcadhowdy d_rossberg, gl?cklicher Freitag zu Ihnen!
14:57.00brlcaddoubts that is right :)
14:58.34archivistsees strange black background
14:59.32d_rossbergbrlcad: oje
15:00.07d_rossbergw"unscht einen sch"onen Freitag!
15:01.20d_rossbergand a happy Whitsun
15:03.30archivistö ü I dont see the proper chars from you two
15:03.50archivistare they correct from me
15:05.30d_rossberg"o and "u are the LaTeX (Babel package) replacements for ö and ü
15:06.29archivistah ok /me is a latex free zone
15:06.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34598 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/ (BrlcadCore.rc CMakeLists.txt brlcad.rc):
15:06.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: renamed the file with the BRL-CAD version defines and copied it into the rc^3/include/brlcad directory
15:06.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: this way an application is able to memorize the BRL-CAD version it was compiled with at compile time
15:06.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: i.e. it can compare the BRL-CAd version of the DLL it is using with the one it was compiled with
15:09.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34599 10/rt^3/trunk/ (include/brlcad/globals.h src/coreInterface/globals.cpp): 3 functions to get the interface's version information
15:26.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34600 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: found some bad light behavior with infinite lights. seems like several bugs depending on the light fraction and surface orientations and light angles.
15:42.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Pacman87 07http://brlcad.org * r1445 10/wiki/User:Pacman87:
16:51.11*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-98-227-157-38.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
16:52.52pacman87_waves to jdoliner
17:49.02brlcadwaves to pacman87_ :)
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18:36.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Light1.png]]": Example of three colored light sources over a box. Scene rendered with default (30%) ambient illumination.
18:41.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Light2.png]]": Example of three colored light sources over a box. Scene rendered with 0% ambient illumination.
18:44.25starseekerhmm - apparently someone working on Cairo-in-OGRE3D rendering
18:46.51starseekerhttp://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=47237
18:48.10brlcadheh, neat
18:49.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Light3.png]]": Example of three colored light sources over a box. Scene rendered with 0% ambient illumination. Light fraction is 2.0 for double intensity.
18:49.32starseekerbrlcad: how did it end up - are we doing Qt in OGRE or OGRE in Qt?
18:50.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Light4.png]]": Example of three colored light sources over a box. Scene rendered with 0% ambient illumination. Light fraction is 10.0 for blooming intensity.
18:51.14brlcadit should be 'ogre in qt'
18:51.30starseekerOK
18:51.46starseekerwonders if this would help any? http://www.qt-apps.org/content/show.php/QtOgre+Framework?content=92912
18:51.49brlcadQt is used to create the context/window, that is passed to ogre's initialization (a lower level one iirc)
18:52.38brlcadyeah, that looks like someone did exactly that with that project
18:53.07Ralithooh, handy!
18:53.20starseekerzlib license looks ok, I think...
18:53.30Ralithzlib is a BSDalike, no?
18:53.35brlcadyeah
18:53.40starseekerhttp://www.gzip.org/zlib/zlib_license.html
18:53.59brlcadI'd be surprised if that 'project' was more than a couple files
18:54.09Ralithnevertheless, it's a great place to start.
18:54.14brlcadyeah
18:54.16Ralithor looks like one anyway
18:54.21brlcadsave you a few days
18:54.45brlcador at least a day :)
18:54.54Ralithsome amount of time, anyway
18:54.57starseekerhttp://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=45709
18:55.01Ralithit's nonzero so it's good
18:55.42Ralithlooks great!
18:56.03Ralithnice find :)
18:56.23starseekerapparently the original author (PolyVox) is still active in the forums - perhaps he could answer questions
18:56.29Ralithgrabs the code
18:58.06Ralithhmm... that castle model looks familiar
18:58.39Ralither, that's on a different page.
18:58.55Ralithlooks like this guy's working on continuing some voxel work I was looking into a while back as well; neat
19:00.53starseekerooo, destructible environments in games
19:01.02Ralithnot properly, yet
19:01.23Ralithit's just voxels, and has the predictable horrible performance for worlds large enough to be interesting
19:02.20Ralithbut it looks like he's considering various LoD approaches.
19:04.09Ralithisn't sure if voxels, even somehow optimized, are really the way to go for large-scale destruction, but it's certainly cool.
19:05.03starseekerRalith: might want to check that thread on the Qt+OGRE framework and make sure there isn't more current code floating around somewhere
19:05.29RalithLast edited by PolyVox on Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:21 pm, edited 4 times in total.
19:05.36Ralithseems like he's been keeping the first post up to date.
19:06.01starseekerThis one has May 27th:  http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=45709&p=342063#p342063
19:06.50starseekeryeah, OGRE forums seem to work like that - work centers around threads
19:07.01starseekerseems a bit haphazard, but if it works it works
19:07.22Ralithoh, it looks like it's in ogreaddons
19:07.33Ralithsyncs
19:07.56starseekerah https://ogreaddons.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/ogreaddons/trunk/QtOgreFramework/
19:08.01Ralithyup
19:08.01starseekeroh, you win :-)
19:08.06Ralith^^
19:08.11Ralithdo I get a prise?
19:08.13Ralithprize*
19:08.19starseekerjust free source code
19:08.23Ralithyay!
19:09.05Ralithoh cool, it uses cmake
19:09.14Raliththat answers my worry about how well qt works with non-qmake
19:09.54Ralith(probably still depends on qmake and/or related tools, but at least this allows a consistent build system)
19:11.52starseekernods
19:11.55Ralithhm, can't *quite* get the demo to run.
19:17.21Ralithargh.
19:17.36starseekerhmm?
19:17.53Ralithfound an error log that confirms what I suspected was wrong, but doesn't actually tell me anything useful re: solving it.
19:18.15Ralithah here we go.
19:18.46Ralithfacepalms
19:18.56Ralithhe hardcoded the GL render system dynlib path.
19:19.16Ralith...or so it appears?
19:19.55Ralithyup.
19:20.13starseekeroops
19:20.20starseekercode change #1
19:20.32Ralithindeed.
19:20.48Ralithpretty sure there shouldn't even need to be a path, much less a hardcoded one.
19:20.57Raliththat's what ldd is for.
19:22.49Ralithhm, perhaps there is need after all.
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19:27.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload:
19:27.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: uploaded "[[Image:Phong.png]]": Example of Phong illumination, pulled from the Wikipedia.
19:27.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: Provided under GFDL.
19:34.00Ralithgah!
19:34.17Ralithwhy do people "support linux" but always forget case sensitivity? >:|
19:34.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Light5.png]]": Example of three colored light sources over a box. Scene rendered with 0% ambient illumination. Light fraction is 10.0 for high intensity. Specular is 0.7 and diffuse is 0.3 (default).
19:35.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload:
19:35.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: uploaded "[[Image:Light6.png]]": Example of three colored light sources over a
19:35.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: box. Scene rendered with 0% ambient illumination. Light fraction is 10.0 for
19:35.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: high intensity. Specular is 0.5 and diffuse is 0.5 for more 'dulled'
19:35.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: reflectance.
19:36.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload:
19:36.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: uploaded "[[Image:Light7.png]]": Example of three colored light sources over a
19:36.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: box. Scene rendered with 0% ambient illumination. Light fraction is 10.0 for
19:36.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: high intensity. Specular is 0 and diffuse is 1 for maximally diffuse
19:36.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: reflectance.
19:37.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload:
19:37.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: uploaded "[[Image:Light8.png]]": Example of three colored light sources over a
19:37.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: box. Scene rendered with 0% ambient illumination. Light fraction is 10.0 for
19:37.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: high intensity. Specular is 1 and diffuse is 0 for maximally specular
19:37.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: reflectance.
19:37.43Ralithhm, that's interesting; it doesn't seem to really handle a tiling wm well.
19:41.41Ralithor perhaps this is a deeper problem.  One way or another, the windows that are supposed to be within Ogre end up as separate windows, except for the FPS counter, and that one ends up outside if I mess with the window in a certain way.
19:41.51Ralithperhaps this isn't such a good starting point.
19:42.14Ralithshall try to contact the author.
19:44.04starseekersorry - thought it might help :-/
19:44.15starseekerdidn't dig too deep into it though
19:44.27Ralithit certainly looked that way, and it may yet.
19:44.31Ralithwe'll se
19:45.31Ralithalthough the way it states that it can only do transparent windows on systems with compositing WMs makes me wonder if it's actually embedding the Qt windows in OpenGL properly.
19:48.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Light brg.png]]": Example of three colored light sources over a box looking down from above. Scene rendered with 0% ambient illumination with a 1.0 light fraction on all three lights.
19:50.31Ralithyeah, it does kind of look like it's just drawing the Qt windows on top of, rather than in, the context.
19:51.51starseekerah, poo
19:52.39starseekerhttps://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=47381
19:53.49starseekerPerhaps there are some hints here:
19:53.53starseekerhttp://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=258064
19:55.00Raliththat's ogre-in-qt rather than qt-in-ogre
19:55.18Ralithhm.
19:55.37Ralithbrlcad: so, wait, do we just want an Ogre context within a Qt window?
19:55.56Ralithas opposed to everything within an OpenGL context?
19:56.26Ralithit should be relatively straightforward to simply create an Ogre widget.
19:56.38Raliththat's not what I thought we'd decided on, though
19:57.02starseekerthought we would be rendering the Qt widgets on the OGRE context
19:57.06starseekeror in
19:57.11Raliththought so as well.
19:57.33starseekerso we essentially need to do "right" what that code tried to fake
19:57.40Ralithyeah
19:57.58Ralithbrlcad: confirm?
19:59.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Light brg10.png]]": Example of three colored light sources over a box looking down from above. Scene rendered with 0% ambient illumination with a 10.0 light fraction on all three lights.
20:02.56Ralithbrbs for a couple hours
20:04.12starseekerRalith: Hmm, the comments of pmax here may be of interest:  http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42733&start=25
20:07.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Light brg20.png]]": Example of three colored light sources over a box looking down from above. Scene rendered with 0% ambient illumination with a 20.0 light fraction on all three lights.
20:08.43starseekerRalith: If I'm not mistaken, pmax was trying to do it the "right way" and PolyVox thinks perhaps a new feature in 4.5 would make it possible
20:10.40starseekerif I'm understanding this correctly, it's 1. Qt gets going and then creates either a window or a fullscreen context (if those are actually different)
20:11.05starseeker2. In the QT window/context, Qt asks for an instance of Ogre
20:12.19starseeker3. Qt then takes that instance of Ogre, and uses it as the output for its widget renders.  Qt still manages things like I/O, passing things specific to Ogre through the Qt system to the Ogre system
20:15.37starseekerI suppose other possibilities would be to have Qt request an opengl graphics system and then shoehorn OGRE in between QT and its graphics system, but that doesn't feel right
20:16.37starseekerwould require that whatever Qt wants from opengl is the same as what OGRE wants, so that a Qt requested opengl context could serve as the "target" for Ogre
20:20.48starseekerthis probably comes under the "check what stellarium does" heading
20:21.27starseekerdon't think they use OGRE, but what they do do might be helpful as a technique illustration (they're GPL so no code grabbing)
20:37.20starseekerRalith: also possibly of interest (see comment from gunnar at 10/23/2008 6:39) http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2008/10/22/so-long-and-thanks-for-the-blit/
20:39.10starseekermay help as well:  http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2008/06/27/accelerate-your-widgets-with-opengl/
20:39.35starseekerhopes we won't have to try creating a whole Ogre rendering system for Qt, but it might come to that...
20:48.22starseekerwell, custom QPaintDevice backends are possible apparently - need to create an engine that derives from QPaintEngine
20:51.19starseekerdon't know if that works though, because QWidget is also a subclass of QPaintDevice
20:52.48starseekerneat stuff
20:52.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1458 10/wiki/Lighting: Initial (brief) overview of how BRL-CAD lighting works with examples
20:53.42brlcadwoot, http://brlcad.org/wiki/Lighting  <-- proofreads welcome for clarity/typos/etc
20:55.15starseekerlooks
20:55.35starseekerwell, this sounds hopeful for QWidget:  Warning: If you are using a custom paint engine without Qt's backingstore, Qt::WA_PaintOnScreen must be set. Otherwise, QWidget::paintEngine() will never be called; the backingstore will be used instead.
20:55.45starseekerimplies a custom paint engine can be used
20:59.42starseekerbrlcad: first line after Phone "Plastic" Shader - maybe say "Initially, you may think..." ?
20:59.46starseekerjust a nitpick
21:01.57starseekernice job!
21:49.20pooliohowdy all!
21:49.43pacman87hi poolio
21:50.39poolioahoy pacman87, how's gsoc going?
21:51.01pacman87bit of a slow start, rereading code
21:51.04pacman87picking up now
21:53.16pooliocool cool. so you're done classes and what not?
21:53.49pacman87yeah, graduation was last weekend
21:54.18pacman87just found out i got accepted to the EE program for grad school at UT Austin today
22:01.35pooliocongratulations! was that your top choice?
22:02.03pacman87yeah, i didn't really apply to that many
22:02.30pacman87i just finished my undergrad in ME there
22:07.58Ralithstarseeker: actually, there are Qt demos doing in-OpenGL drawing using that new 4.5 feature.
22:08.05Ralithjust none that use Ogre too
22:09.20Ralithstarseeker: that last link is in fact what I'm referring to
22:09.35RalithI guess it's a 4.4 feature
22:10.13Ralithhm, so I guess what would be needed would be override QGraphicsScene::drawBackground to call Ogre's frame render function
22:10.39Raliththe trick being, as discussed, getting Ogre to do the render into the same context.
22:11.41Ralithstarseeker: there's also this really cool demo someone wrote with Qt widgets mapped into a 3D world in an OpenGL context, and one of the widgets was an OpenGL context (or something?) that controlled a camera in the world, so you could view it through itself to an arbitrary level of recursion
22:28.45Ralithtries to build that.
22:30.30Ralithoh hey, qmake generates a makefile despite the apparent absence of build instructions. handy.
22:31.02Ralithworks perfectly out of the box!  I think we have a starting point, if it's licensed well.
22:35.39mafmdon't worry Ralith, USA's Army has good funding :P :)
22:35.51Ralith:P
22:36.05Ralithaw, it's GPL'd
22:36.44Ralithwell it's simple enough
22:37.17mafmwasn't Qt LGPL'd recently?
22:37.26Raliththis code in particular is GPL
22:37.33Ralithit's not actually Qt, just an example
22:37.45mafmoh
23:42.08brlcadkicks off a nifty Goliath render for the weekend
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090530

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090530

00:53.25RalithGoliath? As in, the WWII german thingy?
01:31.39brlcadRalith: yep
01:31.50Ralithcool!
01:31.56brlcadthe render should hopefully be done by monday
01:32.01Raliththat's a big render
01:32.16Ralithwhat's the scene?
01:32.30brlcadwe have a nice detailed model of it from a couple students last summer, and one of them is back and working on making a poster of it
01:32.46brlcadthe one going now is a simple scene, but nice quality render
01:33.02Ralithcool
01:33.11Ralithlooks forward to it
01:33.20brlcadthe poster scene is the goliath on a showcase platform with mirrors behind it, red-roped off area, complex lighting
01:36.38Raliththere's no indirect lighting yet, is there?
01:55.40brlcadhm? there is indirect, just only through reflectance, transmission, or ambience
01:56.18brlcadthere's global illumination indirect lighting through adrt, but that requires a tessellation (and chicken bones and a little chanting)
01:56.56Ralithon the upside, that means you get chicken for dinner.
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03:51.21starseekerRalith: might contact the author of that demo that's GPL if it's non-trivial enough, ask if they'd consider LGPL now that Qt is LGPL
03:52.01starseekerotherwise just learn from it
03:54.21Ralithit's pretty trivial
03:54.44Ralithjust under 500 lines in its entirety and most of that is model loading/GUI description rather than actual setup.
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14:44.28``Erikwonders if he needs to relearn qt
15:03.42CIA-28libirc: 03blast007 * r373 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: s/identifyer/identifier/
16:50.59brlcadTHERE IS NO PAIN IN THIS DOJO!
17:01.56*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
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19:12.41starseekerbrlcad: I'm afraid to ask
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20:44.20pacman87i'm pretty sure there's no fear in brlcad's dojo, either
21:21.06brlcadstarseeker: surely you're not too young for karate kid
21:21.30brlcad~pacman87++
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22:01.14PrezKennedybrlcad, i gotta car
22:01.25PrezKennedyif you couldnt guess from everything on Facebook
22:01.26PrezKennedy:p
22:01.57alex_jonifacebook will go bye-bye ;)
22:02.54Ralithbrlcad is on facebook?
22:04.46starseekerbrlcad: ah - figured you were taking up another painful hobby
22:09.30starseekernot too young, just too socially stunted ;-)
22:09.45brlcadPrezKennedy: heh, yeah I noticed -- congratulations!  you're mobile!
22:10.08brlcadcouldn't tell if it was an accord or a maxima, but then saw you say
22:11.18brlcadRalith: yeah, I was finally suckered in last year by a buddy ..
22:11.24brlcadquite an evil place in many ways
22:11.42Ralithwow.
22:11.47Ralithtalk about divergent from the target demographic.
22:11.48brlcadand worse yet, family sort of expects to get updates on me from there now .. :)
22:12.03louipcsome girls made me join..
22:12.09starseekeris holding out
22:13.05starseekerRalith: any more luck with Qt + Ogre?
22:13.25Ralithstarseeker: still grinding away on some schoolwork, so I haven't yet been able to give it the attention it deserves.
22:13.50starseekerah, np :-)
22:13.57Ralithmy plan is that next I'll be looking into how to initialize Ogre with a precreated OpenGL context, I think.
22:14.27starseekernods
22:14.33RalithI'm expecting that to be the hardest bit of the whole Qt + Ogre thing
22:14.35starseekerif possible, that may be a "clean" way
22:14.47RalithI wouldn't be surprised if I have to hack Ogre though
22:14.58brlcadI would
22:15.05Ralithreally?
22:15.11RalithI haven't played with it extensively, but I've never seen it used in any way but creating its own context
22:15.24Ralith'course, that's an area that bears more research.
22:15.26brlcadyou may have to hook into a lower-level base class, but that is supposed to be a normal operation (according to the ogre devs)
22:15.33Ralithoh cool :D
22:15.53brlcadbeing a graphics engine that can't be hooked in would be kinda weak :)
22:15.53Raliththen this should go pretty smoothly, assuming Qt will let me at the context pointer.
22:16.09brlcadjust happens to default to "lemme create the window for you too"
22:16.34Ralithwhich should be easily determined by a quick glance at the QtOpenGL API docs.
22:17.02brlcadthat example project, whether it works or not out of the box, probably shows how too
22:17.12Ralithwhich?
22:17.23starseekerhmm:  With the pre-release of OGRE v1.6, Felix Bellaby added a new, named parameter called currentGLContext (not to be confused with the other named parameter externalGLContext). Note that it is case-insensitive - like all named parameters seem to be. With this parameter set, OGRE will NOT create or setup an OpenGL context. It is left up to the programmer to set this up. OGRE will just blindly issue OpenGL commands.
22:17.42Ralithhandy!
22:17.44starseekerper:  http://www.ogre3d.org/wiki/index.php/Using_SDL_Input
22:17.47Ralithseems like I picked the right time to start this project.
22:17.56Ralith(i.e. right after Qt and Ogre added the relevant features)
22:18.26starseeker(see the "new, experimental" way at the bottom of that page)
22:18.35starseekerperhaps the issues are similar for SDL and Qt?
22:18.51Ralithit's exactly the same situation, unless I'm missing something
22:19.02starseekerhugs google
22:19.30brlcadI think it was even possible before 1.6, just wasn't so conveniently exposed -- you hooked into a base class
22:20.01Ralithstill, this should make things easy.
22:20.48brlcadyeah, it's also different than what I played with -- you had to hand OGRE the context you created
22:20.55brlcadblindly issuing gl commands is rather new
22:21.15Ralithit looks like externalGLContext might be that, although what I'm reading here seems to suggest that is windows only
22:21.19starseekerwonders if giving Ogre the context wouldn't be a better way to go?
22:21.31brlcadstarseeker: shouldn't matter really
22:22.00starseekerif some other app has a different opengl context, couldn't there be trouble?
22:22.02brlcadthey wanted it for state management and for cleanup/shutdown reasons iirc
22:22.08starseekeroh
22:22.23brlcadcontexts aren't shared across applications
22:22.40brlcad(sorta)
22:22.41Ralithit would only be weird if the one app had multiple contexts, and I'm not sure that's legal, let alone desirable.
22:24.05brlcadit's possible, and sort of necessary if you're a multi-window applications
22:24.18brlcadjust very odd for something like a full-screen toggleable application
22:29.35brlcadPrezKennedy: Up?
22:30.09PrezKennedyi wish!!
22:30.18PrezKennedyive been waiting to see it since the previews
22:31.02brlcadmight be going to Up at 7pm or 9:30pm at Regal with Stephen
22:31.10brlcador 7:40 at whitemarsh
22:32.05brlcadbets his phone has been ringing incessantly, goes to check it
22:32.12PrezKennedyhaha
23:06.27PrezKennedyi havent driven on an interstate yet
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090531

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090531

01:41.29*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177680700.dsl.bell.ca)
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02:15.46``Erikhttp://newmedia.funnyjunk.com/pictures/baconflowchart_700.jpg   brilliant
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14:09.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 0398.218.53.50 07http://brlcad.org * r1459 10/wiki/Main_Page: lighting
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19:51.57jdolinerwho had a good working knowledge of openNurbs?
19:52.16jdolinerhas rather*
20:28.02brlcadjdoliner: a least a couple of us have a decent working knowledge -- what's the question?
20:28.26jdolinerso I've been code reading it for a while
20:28.37jdolinerfirst all the documentation I've found
20:28.44jdolinerwell I haven't found much
20:29.04jdolinerthat really gives me an idea how things are working
20:29.33jdolinerso if I've just failed to find the good stuff but it does exist somewhere
20:29.39jdolinerthat would be really useful
20:29.54jdolinerreally I'm having trouble understanding exactly how to work with nurbs/surfaces
20:30.13jdolinerparticularly exactly what fields are they storing in them
20:30.18jdolinerbecause I can't find that anywhere
20:30.48jdolinerultimately I need to just get the paramatric form, however it's stored, which seems like it shouldn't be too hard
20:36.02brlcadjdoliner: their only 'official' documentation is in the header files, same ones in src/other/openNURBS
20:36.42brlcadeverything stems from what is found there (which is a lot, so it can be a bit complicated to search for specific things)
20:37.24brlcadI assume you've read the openNURBS examples in src/proc-db that talk about the basic structure, create 2d and 3d curves
20:38.07brlcader, those are 'our' examples, and then there are the openNURBS examples in src/other/openNURBS/example_*/.
20:39.52brlcadif you've not seen this image, it describes the data structures pretty well: http://en.wiki.mcneel.com/content/upload/images/Brep_structure.gif
20:43.01jdolinerokay I also found some code hosted on their wiki wish is a MeshMesh intersect
20:43.14jdolinerbut as far as I can see it's not included in their toolkit
20:43.23jdolinerand it's not in our copy of it
20:43.51brlcaderm, if it was included, you wouldn't have much of a project ;)
20:44.08brlcadaside from needing to intersect a lot more than Mesh objects :)
20:44.46brlcadneed to evaluate the intersection of an arbitrary ON_Brep against another ON_Brep
20:45.16brlcadthere is a LOT missing from openNURBS that is included in the Rhino3D toolkit, particularly evaluation routines
20:45.31brlcadthey removed much of their bread-n-butter than makes Rhino pretty uniquely powerful
20:48.28jdolinerokay that's good
20:48.39jdolinerI've written some stuff that would have been redundant with that function
20:56.41brlcadnote that we have a lot of curve+surface and surface+surface intersection routines written, particularly for polygonal surfaces but even for spline surfaces
20:57.24brlcadthey're just not very robust the way they're implemented, and they're not for/using the openNURBS ON_Brep data structures (which form the basis of our new 'brep' object type)
20:58.32jdolineri see
20:58.58brlcadsrc/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_eval.c for example for how it's done on our generalized polygon mesh nmg object type
20:58.58jdolinerso should I avoid dependancy on any of their intersection routines
20:59.17brlcadyou can use any openNURBS routines
20:59.23brlcador routines you write
20:59.39brlcador even routines that we've already written, but updated to ON types
21:00.08jdolinerright but you said their intersection routines aren't that robust
21:00.12brlcadjust saying your job might be a little easier to survey what you need and what's available to you, you don't have to start from scratch ;)
21:00.19jdolinerokay
21:00.25jdolinerthat's comforting
21:00.59brlcadif you blindly implement from scratch, you will just as likely end up with a non-robust solution too :)
21:01.10jdolineralso can you give me a little tutorial on how to compile something against the opennurbs library
21:01.39jdolinerfor some reason I can't seem to get my object files to binaries without it saying it can't find the all the opennurbs functions
21:01.45brlcadsee src/proc-db/breplicator.cpp and the build rules in src/proc-db/Makefile.am
21:02.25jdolinerokay
21:02.30brlcadyou can start another example app in there for that matter
21:02.38brlcadyou shouldn't be coding outside of revision control
21:03.01jdolinerI've been putting things in the ON example folder
21:03.26jdolinerbut I couldn't find a makefile for them
21:03.37brlcadwhich ON example folder?
21:04.33brlcadthere are seven, but yeah they don't have Makefiles, can just hand-compile them
21:04.43brlcadnot that your code belongs there :)
21:04.49jdolinerno it doesn't
21:04.49brlcadsrc/other shouldn't be directly modified
21:05.04jdolinerthat's something I didn't know
21:05.07jdolinerk
21:05.12jdolinerno more modifying that
21:05.22jdolineri'd actually made my own example folder
21:05.23brlcadthose are 3rd party codes, external dependencies
21:05.59brlcadthey're bundled primarily as a download/compile convenience -- instead of telling people to go download and install A, B, C, ...
21:06.22brlcadconfigure autodetects what is available on a given system and compiles the remainder of what it needs
21:06.51brlcadsrc/proc-db is a good 'scratch playground' for new routine and new app development
21:08.22jdolinerk that sounds good
21:38.28CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34601 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/iges/readstrg.c: if id is null, crash. so check it. (ran into it after stack corruption)
22:21.42Ralithanyone seen jonored around?
22:46.22brlcad~seen jonored
22:46.24ibotjonored <n=jonored@dsl092-076-134.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 41d 3h 12m 17s ago, saying: '...er... wrong project. the brlcad database, not the reprap... wrong project I want to work on.'.
23:48.10brlcadhm, he was here at least on the first too, but didn't say anything
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090601

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090601

00:10.26Ralith:/
00:15.21b0efwasn't all the docs converted to docbook?
00:36.13brlcadb0ef: most, but not all -- still a lot more to go
04:11.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34602 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: gah, still don't see the bug, but more details after three hours debugging on the small render image crash in X24_blit()'s memcpy.
04:25.00brlcadoh, maybe maybe...
04:33.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34603 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/opt.c: allow 1x1 images
05:06.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34604 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_X24.c:
05:06.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: the X24_blit() logic is still wacky for zoomed windows but this change does stop
05:06.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: the invalid memory access crashes that were occuring for small renderings (that
05:06.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: had large zooms) during memcpy. the line-duplication logic was copying from the
05:06.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: middle of a line for the length of a line, which is only valid from the
05:06.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: beginning of a line. so we now duplicate from the beginning of the line
05:06.54CIA-28BRL-CAD: (opix/holdit).
05:07.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34605 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: fixed the crash. still has bad behavior, though, for at least -s96 zooms and smaller.
05:21.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34606 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/fedex_plus/Makefile.am: one per line for diffability, remove extraneous tab, can't ldadd something not necessarily built
05:22.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34607 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/clutils/Makefile.am: need -fexceptions on C++ libs to resolve Unwind_Resume. this lib fully resolves now.
05:44.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34608 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db5_scan.c: fix a crash on diradd that was encountered during debugging (-x 11). name is a bu_external, so have to access the enclosed ext_buf if we want to print the name.
05:54.55brlcadrenders miqlas's gearbox niftily
06:02.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34609 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/configure.ac: define all of the generated libraries so we can make sure all dependencies are resolved
06:12.16*** join/#brlcad elena (n=elena@92.86.0.28)
06:13.04brlcadhola elena
06:13.22elenahi. how are you?
06:13.41brlcadburning the late oil, but coding so feeling good :)
06:14.01elenaLOL what hour is there?
06:14.11brlcadabout 2am
06:14.28elenawow. it is very late!
06:15.02brlcadnot too horribly late, but I've been waking up at 4am for practice, so it's pretty late :)
06:16.52elenabtw i got a copy of the Drupal code and more important, the database.
06:16.58elenais it ok?
06:17.10brlcadis what ok?
06:17.11elenait's only on my pc, i won't share with anyone else?
06:17.19elenagetting the db dump.
06:17.39elena"anyone else?" is "anyone else."
06:18.46brlcadoh, yeah that's okay -- but I'd also like to see you working in revision control ASAP
06:18.51brlcadhave you used svn before?
06:19.08elenavery little.
06:19.25elenai'll read about it.
06:19.36elenai didn't know the code is in svn.
06:19.42brlcadokay, then something to sort out quickly then :)
06:19.48brlcadthe code isn't, there is no code
06:19.52brlcadyou were starting with a clean slate
06:20.00brlcadbut that doesn't mean it shouldn't be revision controlled
06:20.21elenai agree. it's easier to update and keep track of things.
06:20.28brlcadany code being _written_ should be checked in (daily or more frequently) for many many reasons
06:20.47elenaandrei (my husband) uses it. he will show me the basics.
06:20.56brlcadthe code on the site now isn't custom, so nothing we wrote, nothing really to check in -- just backups of the site
06:22.08brlcadthe basics are pretty simple, perhaps starseeker can help walk you through setting up a new repository module with the trunk/branches/tags set up properly
06:22.37elenaok.
06:23.01brlcadactually, now that I think of it -- there is a 'web' module already
06:23.05brlcadgo ahead and use that
06:24.16brlcadelena: what's your sf.net username?
06:24.30elenaebautu i think. let me check.
06:24.53brlcadyeah
06:27.56elenayes. that is.
06:36.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34610 10/web/trunk/ (DEVINFO NEWS misc/crontab): cull out some old information so this module can finally be put to use again
06:38.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34611 10/web/trunk/htdocs/ (. more/): add htdocs web root with a 'more' subdirectory for elena to work with
06:38.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34612 10/web/trunk/misc/: remove out-dated crontab example
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06:50.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34613 10/web/trunk/htdocs/ (.htaccess favicon.ico robots.txt): begin sync of some of our more important files
06:55.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34614 10/web/trunk/htdocs/ (12 files in 6 dirs): sync our drupal, mediawiki, and cgi:irc config/setting files
06:56.30brlcadthere that should sync the more important aspects that have been revision neglected
06:56.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34615 10/web/trunk/htdocs/skin2/ (27 files): sync our drupal, mediawiki, and cgi:irc config/setting files
06:57.22brlcadthat should give you a place to be putting your files, please do ask for help on using svn if you get stuck on something or need a tutorial
06:57.42brlcadmost anyone in here should be able to help
06:58.08elenaok. i will
06:58.10brlcadthe goal (which is tough for most new committers) is to commit nearly as frequently as you save a file
06:58.29elenai'll try.
06:58.30brlcadeven if you know you're going to change something right after
06:58.44brlcadeven if there are temporary aspects
06:58.49brlcadyou can't commit too frequently
06:58.57Ralithyes you can!
06:59.03brlcadheh
06:59.03elenai'm more concerned about mistakes, than temporary stuff :)
06:59.09Ralithonly if you try very hard, though
06:59.15brlcadmistakes are fine, even committed
06:59.24elenaok.
06:59.49brlcadangie has a great writeup about commits on her blog
06:59.53brlcad(drupal dev angie)
07:00.37brlcadhere we go
07:00.48brlcadelena: have a read at this when you get a chance: http://webchick.net/embrace-the-chaos
07:00.48elenai know.
07:00.52brlcadgood stuff
07:00.52elenathanks.
07:01.27brlcadeven the comments are insightful ;)
07:14.16CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34616 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/Makefile.am: clutils comes first, then clstepcore needs to come next. looks like cldai depends on both.
07:22.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34617 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/cleditor/ (Makefile.am needFunc.cc needFunc.h):
07:22.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: move the needFunc stubbed-empty example from src/test into here so that we don't
07:22.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: have a library calling a fracking undefined symbol. bad design. probably needs
07:22.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: to be an overridable virtual or a app-registered callback. either way, this
07:22.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: resolves all symbols for this lib and allows -no-undefined to work. sort the
07:22.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: file list while at it.
07:24.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34618 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/exppp/Makefile.am: these libs fully resolve after specifying libexpress as a dependency
07:30.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34619 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/ (cldai/Makefile.am clstepcore/Makefile.am express/Makefile.am):
07:30.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: we can cheat and fake the dependency resolve by letting libstepdai depend on
07:30.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: libstepcore and allowing libstepcore to not require all symbols be defined.
07:30.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: this cyclic dependency really should be broken, though, as it will likely still
07:30.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: cause portability problems. the SDAI functions shouldn't be called from
07:30.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: libstepcore.
07:32.50CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34620 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (Makefile.am needFunc.cc needFunc.h): shoved the stub function into libcleditor so it should no longer be an unresolved symbol just by using the library.
07:34.09brlcadcalls it
07:56.39brlcadah, hrmph
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13:58.44Axman6so i'm watching a show about the USS Nimitz (SP?), and it occured to me that i don't know why people in the military have crew cuts... so i figured this would be a good place to ask...
13:58.54Axman6pokes brlcad
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14:34.06``Erik'crew cut' isn't mandated, some people just like it
14:34.41``Erikthe rules are tapered back, off the ears and above the eyebrows, partly to look "neat and trimmed" and partly to not interfere with equipment or get caught in anything
14:35.06``Erik(women can have long hair, but it has to be in a tight bun or something on duty, iirc)
14:35.41``Erik(marines have crew cuts so navy guys have a place to set their beer)
14:35.44``Erik:D *duck*
14:42.46``Eriklooks around for d-lo
14:51.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34621 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/adrt.h: squish these tables a tiny bit more, use hex friendly base values
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16:43.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34622 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/exppp/Makefile.am: oops, not dependent on itself
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16:57.43brlcadfantastic
16:58.18starseekerbrlcad: builds successfully here
16:58.22starseekernice
16:58.23brlcadadjusted repair estimate is over 3k after the paint job
16:58.34starseekerow
16:58.53starseekerthat sucks
16:59.05brlcad*shrug* it's all fully covered :)
17:00.39brlcadi have pictures now, baby is all naked
17:04.32brlcadcool
17:04.46brlcadstarseeker: and add that you build successfully, I don't :)
17:07.09``Erikheh, they made me drive O.o
17:07.20brlcadmade you?
17:07.29``Erikheh,  nah, I volunteered
17:07.39``Erikjohn had never ridden in it before, and I got it back, so *shrug*
17:07.49brlcadahh, lunch
17:08.04``Erikyeah, grumpies had something called a "quesadilla burger"
17:08.22starseekerbrlcad: your build is still busted?
17:08.29starseekerdoes a clean checkout...
17:08.31brlcadstarseeker: it's a local mod
17:08.56starseekerah, OK :-)
17:18.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34623 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/ (6 files in 6 dirs): more cleanup, o-p-l and removal of empty nil vars
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19:03.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34624 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp): Add basic dynamic sampling to the wireframe drawing routine for NURBS primitive. Probably not ideal, but it's a start.
19:06.05CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34625 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: Clean up stray variable declaration.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090602

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090602

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02:49.34Mike111hi all
02:50.50Ralithhullo
02:51.01Mike111I want to create an animation of a model.
02:52.05Mike111for a smooth animation it seems better to save the images (different views) and then combine them into an animation file like a GIF
02:52.23Mike111is it possible to convert .pix to .png of .gif?
02:52.59``Erikyeah, pix-png
02:54.05Mike111that's good. is it mentioned in the manuals? I've reat the rt, pix-fb and anim_script but don't think it was there
02:54.50``Erikwhich manuals? the man pages? tutorials? O.o
02:55.01Mike111man pages
02:55.30Mike111are there separate tutorial on animation? where?
02:55.33``Erikthere's a pix-png man page, yes
02:55.59``Erikum, there was an outdated paper sitting somewhere, clock was able to make it work, but it required a lot of change to the process
02:56.56Mike111I don't think it's mentioned in the rt or pix-fb man pages
02:57.46``Erikhm, those are other programs O.o
02:58.16``Eriknotes that perl is not mentioned in the ls manpage
02:58.34``Erik:D
02:59.16RalithMike111: I bet you could script an animation render
02:59.22Ralithbut... why?
02:59.46Mike111other but related. users may be interested in converting from pix. reading these man pages gives an impression it is only processed by mged
03:00.20Mike111Ralith: animating in real-time via mged may be slow. I want to rt first, save the framebuffer output and them create a smooth animaiton
03:00.34``Erik(hopefully in the reasonably near future, rt will be able to output png directly... rtedge already can)
03:01.31RalithMike111: why do you want to animate directly from brlcad at all?
03:02.39Mike111Ralith: I don't. I want mged to create a rt frame and then save the framebuffer image. I'll have a series of these figures, merge them into one file and have a nice GIF animation
03:03.09RalithMike111: why do you want to animate indirectly from brlcad at all?
03:03.46Mike111for example: circling around a model, that is, viewing it from a different angle (0,45,90...360)
03:05.30Ralithyes, I know what animating is
03:05.32Ralithbut *why*?
03:05.59Mike111there is an animation page on the brl-cad wiki. I'll look there too
03:06.30Ralithwhat is the purpose of your endeavor?
03:06.40Mike111Ralith: viewing the model from different directions helps someone else to understand what you are doing
03:07.03RalithMike111: okay, so why not export it to something that has a rendering system designed to do animations, and make a proper video of it?
03:07.59Mike111you mean convert the .pix to .png and then combine all the .png files into a 30fps movie?
03:08.03Ralithno.
03:08.21RalithI mean exporting the model to something that has a rendering system designed to do animations.
03:09.06Mike111you mean like saving it as IGES or whatever and then loading it in a movie-editor application?
03:09.29RalithI don't know of any video editors that can render from IGES geometry
03:09.52Mike111can you give me a specific working example what you mean?
03:10.27Ralithif you can get a passable tesselation of your model, blender would make a simple animation like you describe trivial and fast.
03:10.43Ralithas would any other visuals-oriented modeler
03:10.48Raliths/modeler/3D suite/
03:11.33Mike111what's a `passable tesselation'?
03:16.28Ralithone that looks mostly like your model
03:21.01Mike111what is the I need to export my model in? (to read it in blender)
03:22.27Raliththe only format I know for sure would work is STL
03:32.24Mike111what were the other alternatives to blender?
03:36.43Ralithwhatever visually oriented 3D suite you're familiar with
03:42.38Mike111haven't used any. Blender seems to be well-supported. I wonder if there are alternatives (simpler).
03:45.20``Eriklightwave3d, 3dstudio max, maya, ...
03:47.33Raliththere's no such thing as a simple 3D suite.
03:58.22Mike111looking for GPL and linux-compatible
04:00.01RalithGPL? That's an awfully small scope.
04:00.32RalithI'm pretty sure blender is the only remotely decent free 3D suite for any non-beer meaning of free, anyway.
04:01.45Mike111http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blender_(software) gives a few at the bottom of the page
04:02.09Mike111have you tried K3D?
04:03.58Ralithlike I said
04:04.03RalithI'm pretty sure blender is the only remotely decent free 3D suite for any non-beer meaning of free, anyway.
04:08.20``Erik"grand theft mariokart"
04:08.36Ralithhehe
04:08.51``Erikrobotchicken++
04:14.47brlcadnotes that getting a 'passable tessellation' of a model can be a project in itself, more complicated than a simple rt animation :)
04:16.13Ralithtrue, true.
04:16.20Ralithnot forever though!
04:16.36brlcadMike111: give the wiki tutorial a try, it's pretty trivail enough as it is to generate a series of frames for an animation
04:17.21Ralithheey
04:17.29RalithI bet it wouldn't be hard to extend procedurals to produce a simple animation system
04:17.30Mike111hi brlcad. that's what I'm doing now. imagemagick's convert doesn't work for the mpeg.
04:17.35brlcadnote that brl-cad doesn't render animations -- there are no tools to put those frames together into a video stream, you'll need third party tool for that
04:17.54brlcadconvert works fine if you have the video tools installed that they use :)
04:17.54Ralithimagemagick does images, not videos.
04:18.01brlcadRalith: actually it does
04:18.05Ralithoh really?
04:18.06Ralithcool!
04:18.08Mike111I'm trying to use ffmpeg
04:18.31Ralithstill, I'd use mencoder for creating a video from stills
04:19.19brlcadIM doesn't do it directly, it just parcels out to ffmpeg or mencoder
04:19.50brlcadbut does simplify frame compositing, "convert *.png myvideo.mpg"
04:20.37RalithI do hope it gives you some way to specify compression and framerate at the very least.
04:22.06brlcad*shrug*, if you really need that -- you probably shouldn't be using IM in the first place
04:22.13brlcadbut it's great for simple animations
04:22.55Mike111for a rotating model it seems to be fine. even a GIF animation will do
04:24.09brlcadMike111: feel free to add additional detail to the wiki if you have something useful to add
04:24.25Ralithbrlcad: I think everybody needs to at the very least specify framerate.
04:24.38Ralithconsidering the use case, 30fps is *not* a reasonable default.
04:24.41brlcadRalith: 'everybody'?  why?
04:24.55Ralithwell, most users.
04:25.23brlcadI've made dozens of perfectly acceptable videos without any care whatsoever to the framerate because it was perfectly reasonable default
04:25.31Ralithbecause a series of images has no intrinsic framerate, and I think it's pretty likely that most imagesets will not compose smooth video, but rather something slower a la hand drawn animation.
04:25.44RalithI guess not in this case, then.
04:27.59brlcadit's like saying a user must specify a jpeg compression factor when converting images -- there's no intrinsic 'acceptible' compression but sure enough it works just fine to set an arbitrary default
04:28.19brlcadsame holds with videos, maybe just slower or faster than expected
04:28.25brlcadbig deal
04:28.27Ralithwell, you have to consider the common use case
04:28.39Ralithjpegs, you can generally assume that it's going to be a photo or something similar.
04:28.40brlcadexactly
04:28.56Ralithbecause it'd be silly to use jpeg for most else.
04:29.15brlcadwow, that's a lot of assumptions already :)
04:29.22Ralithand yet it works!
04:29.23brlcadyou know that, plenty of people don't
04:30.37brlcaddo they need to know that?  no, it's (from their perspective) an irrelevant implementation detail
04:30.58Ralithhm.
04:31.01brlcadit's not an issue of whether to provide the knob or not, it's whether they should _have_ to specify it
04:31.10RalithI guess I started arguing in favor of default framerates without noticing.
04:31.13Ralithwups.
04:32.14Ralith(that explains why things got so confusing just now)
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04:57.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34626 10/brlcad/trunk/ (242 files in 4 dirs):
04:57.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: Decouple ged return codes from bu. It was okay when it was just OK/ERROR, but
04:57.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: not with the ged-specific 'MORE' concept and would have been even worse with the
04:57.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: new QUIET option. Make the codes maskable for non-OK so multiple codes can be
04:57.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: returned at the same time.
05:28.38Mike111is it possilbe to use the `inside command on an ARS primitive?
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08:55.44brlcadMike111: nope, unimplemented for that primitive
08:56.58brlcadonly nmg, eto, ehy, epa, rhc, rpc, part, tor, ell, tgc, and arb8's
08:58.09brlcadwouldn't be too terribly difficult though
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09:45.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 0377.120.80.206 07http://brlcad.org * r1460 10/wiki/Main_Page:
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10:39.18d-loMornin all!
11:32.02brlcadhowyd
11:38.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34627 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: inside support for the ARS (requested by Mike111)
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11:58.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34628 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: put the new GED_QUIET to use. if caller requests QUIET, then the ged_result_str should not be modified.
12:02.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34629 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: document the four command failure return codes
12:29.12d-loRalith:  How do you plan on using QT?  Make it a requirement to have it installed and compiled seperately or are you planning on including it in the rt^3 repo?
12:36.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34630 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (3ptarb.c adjust.c analyze.c): collapse a handful of common code patterns with the corresponding GED_ macro. on a quest to have no command directly peek into the ged structure.
12:39.11brlcadpremature to include it as the existing codebase
12:39.22brlcadnot enough code yet to warrant the effort
12:40.00brlcadwasn't enough to warrant ogre either but iirc, it required some modifications to integrate cleanly
12:41.27d-loOkay, I was just curious.  QT is a biggun, even if you strip it down to the bare minimum needed.
12:45.00brlcadyep
12:45.06CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34631 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/arb.c: diradd + put_internal pattern.
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12:48.40brlcadgeneral rule of thumb I've seen (for projects that don't follow always/never bundle) is to manage/include it if their codesize is not larger than yours
12:50.00brlcadshades of gray in-between but seems to be the cutoff in terms of sustainable maintainability (as there is a cost to managing every dep)
12:50.15brlcad(whether bundled or not)
12:58.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34632 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (arced.c attr.c bev.c): more GED pattern collapsing
13:07.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34633 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/binary.c: ged_check_exists pattern
13:12.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34634 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/ged.h src/libged/binary.c): rename ged_binary() to ged_bo() so it matches the command name.
13:13.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34635 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): rename binary.c to bo.c to match the command name
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13:41.30``Erikhugs gtk+
13:42.07``Erikthinks zlib and libpng shouldn't be bundled anymore, make 'em deps :(
13:44.27``Erik(and when do we axe jove?)
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16:59.52``Eriksrc/mged/setup.c:71: error: 'ged_binary' undeclared here (not in a function)
17:06.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34636 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/setup.c: ged_binary has been renamed to ged_bo. Reflect that in the cmd table.
17:07.30brlcadhum, musta not committed that file
17:13.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34637 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/arb.c: GED_DB_DIRADD now takes a "struct directory" as a parameter.
17:14.16CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34638 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c: ged_binary has been renamed to ged_bo. Reflect that in the cmd table.
17:29.43brlcadahh, my setup.c was conflicted
17:32.33``Erikclean build now
17:32.41brlcadcool
17:33.20``Erikmoving the new brlcad.org to a more explicit release tag, btw
17:33.40``Erikno need to catch the pre-release versions
17:35.23``Erik(now, I'm saying I have a clean build, I do NOT know if these functions work as advertised...)
17:56.32Ralithd-lo: I think it's fair to expect most *nix users to have Qt already.  Windows poses a bit of an issue there, but decent documentation should sort that out.
18:00.50*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38)
18:12.27``Erikwould disagree, but *shrug*
18:12.38``ErikI tend to be more in the gnome camp myself
18:12.51d-lololz @ gnomecamp.
18:13.00``Eriklolz @ dave
18:13.03``ErikO.o
18:13.13``Erikcasts magic missile
18:13.16d-loi get that a lot.
18:13.27``Erikat the DARKNESS!
18:13.51d-loThe Darkness AOE Debuffs #BRLCAD
18:13.54d-looh noes!
18:14.05``Erikaoe dot, even
18:14.19``Erik</nerd>
18:14.44d-loheh, refrencing Damage over Time and IRC in same sentence....
18:14.47d-lonice.
18:15.06``Erikyeah, redundant
18:15.25``Erikwait, wait, "-1 redundant"
18:15.27``Erikthere we go :D
18:16.13d-loRalith:  QT is a helluva compile on windows :/
18:16.23d-lotime wise that is.
18:16.31Ralithwell, there's always prebuilt binaries!
18:16.35starseekerd-lo: they should have an installer
18:16.40``Erikqt is a hell of a compile anywhere, g++ is still a pig :(
18:18.13d-lostarseeker: They do, but it doesn't compile the libs :/
18:18.21d-lostarseeker: Did some dry runs this weekend.
18:18.37Ralithd-lo: well, for practical purposes, binaries will do fine.
18:19.10d-loRalith: Good deal.  Otherwise, how are things going?
18:19.32Ralithstill bogged up with schoolness, but that will be resolved by monday.
18:19.50RalithI've dig up that old Qt-in-GL demo again for reference
18:19.59Ralithbuild and runs tidily.
18:20.21Ralithand I have a good idea of how to get Ogre using a third-party context, so to speak.
18:20.41Raliththanks to a SDL+Ogre tutorial starseeker found
18:21.43Ralithso implementing a proof-of-concept Qt in Ogre, and probably even slipping Qt underneath current g3d, should be straightforward enough.
18:22.58Ralithso, slow but very promising.
18:23.37d-looutstanding!
18:23.59d-loNow, lets hope that the plan and the implementation don't deviate by TOO much ;?
18:24.01d-lo;?
18:24.32Ralithhehe
18:24.34Ralithlet's hope.
18:24.46``Erikno plan survives contact with the enemy.
19:38.13starseekerwonders if LLVM can build BRL-CAD yet
19:38.35Ralithcling would be interesting to try.
19:44.40Ralither
19:44.41Ralithclang
19:59.27starseekerRalith: cling should be the name of a de-compiler ;-)
19:59.39Ralithafks for a while
20:02.36*** join/#brlcad andax (n=andax__@d213-102-40-191.cust.tele2.ch)
20:06.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34639 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): initial bulk trimming work
20:06.06``Erikw00t
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21:41.51Ralithbulk trimming?
21:45.53starseekerthere are stages to the trimming algorithm we are implementing
21:46.15starseekerthe first does the "easy" cases - the second (harder) stage does the fine work and needs more logic we don't have in there yet
21:47.38Ralithtrimming algorithm? >_>
21:48.03starseekerNURBS surfaces usually  have trimming curves that "trim away" parts of the surface
21:48.39starseekermakes for more flexible geometry, but you need to be "aware" of the impact of the curves on the surface you are working with
21:48.50Ralithah, nurbs work.
21:49.00starseekerright
22:05.46*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14E0CE.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:29.58madanthowdy Ralith
22:30.41Ralithhullo
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22:50.15madanthow is qt tinkering coming along ?
22:50.23madanti haven't started mine yet :(
23:13.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34640 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/ (Makefile.am opennurbs_curve.cpp): temporary tcl header lookup
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090603

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090603

03:04.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34641 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/Command.tcl:
03:04.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: protect the gets rename the same way mged/text.tcl does it by making sure the
03:04.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: proc has a body/exists first. the s2 folks reported that they're getting an
03:04.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: error about gets not existing which would be consistent with the Command.tcl
03:04.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: constructor getting read multiple times.
03:17.01brlcadteh awesome, http://brlcad.org/tmp/goliath.png
03:18.41brlcadtook 60 cores to crunch that image out in about 3 hours :)
03:18.53brlcadgranted it was running at less than half-speed with all the verbose overlap logging
03:19.01Ralithtop's a little overexposed
03:19.26Ralithbut yeah, very nice
03:19.35brlcadand there are something like 16 spotlight light sources, 128 shadow rays, texturing, bump-mapping, .. lots of reflectivity
03:19.53brlcadpretty "expensive" picture
03:20.09Ralithpretty subtle bumpmapping/texturing.
03:20.15brlcadyep, intentionally
03:20.25RalithI dunno, it might've been a bit underboard, so to speak
03:20.41RalithI have a hard time telling it apart from a flat gray untextured model without looking very close
03:20.42brlcadit's closer to what it actually looks like
03:20.57Ralithokay
03:21.09RalithI guess it actually looks like an untextured model :P
03:21.47brlcaduntextured looks much different
03:21.52brlcadway too 'perfect'/clean
03:22.33RalithI guess it's the lack of a comparison that dose it
03:22.42Ralithdoes*
03:25.05brlcadand to 'finish' it off, a 2x2 subsampling to eliminate the aliasing and rendering edges cleanly ..
03:25.08brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/goliath2.png
03:27.53brlcad4x4 would be better, but that would take all night and there are other scenes of the goliath also worth rendering
03:28.46brlcadwas nice if only just to sort out how remrt/rtsrv work once again, been a couple years
03:29.30brlcadcalls it and heads out
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04:59.49brlcadhowdy jdoliner
05:00.06starseekerthat is an awesome goliath
05:00.53brlcadit finished shortly after you left
05:00.58starseekerheh figures
05:01.07starseekerscowls at cat
05:01.42brlcads/sc/throws b/
05:02.06starseekernah, enough broken glass here for one night
05:02.17starseekershe's a good enough cat most of the time
05:02.23brlcadglass? :)
05:02.40brlcadwas thinking more the stone or metal variety ;)
05:02.49starseekershe knocked over a lamp with an old style neon light bulb in it (you know, the big round ones)
05:02.59starseekerah :-)
05:06.08brlcadthinks these will make a nice set of renderings for the museum
05:09.24starseekerindeed, they'll love it
05:10.34starseekerstill would prefer to be sure the texture images are something we can include in the repository
05:11.19brlcadnow that it's clear how it'll turn out, should have remrt quell overlaps, quell liboptical light overlap reporting, and render an 8k x 8k for a poster print
05:11.34starseeker:-)
05:12.53brlcadthat's about 48 hours at the same settings and cpus, could probably triple the cpu horsepower to have it done overnight
05:13.42brlcadshould do the other 2k's of the other 3 or so scenes first though
05:13.54brlcadthen pick one to posterfy
05:14.11starseekerheh - museum could sell copies
05:18.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34642 10/brlcad/trunk/src/liboptical/photonmap.c: quell overlap reporting for the non-primary photonmapping rays
05:32.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34643 10/brlcad/trunk/src/liboptical/photonmap.c: ws style consistency cleanup, fix crazy equal alignment
05:34.08starseekerbrlcad: can you leave irc messages for people?
05:34.18starseekerfor when they reappear?
05:34.21brlcadmemoserv
05:38.10starseekerthanks
05:38.24starseeker's brain gives out
05:40.54CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34644 10/brlcad/trunk/src/liboptical/refract.c: propagate the same overlap logging behavior on refracted rays as on the originating ray
05:43.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34645 10/brlcad/trunk/src/liboptical/sh_air.c: utilize the same overlap logging when shooting rays via the (incomplete) 'textured mist' shader.
05:44.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34646 10/brlcad/trunk/src/liboptical/photonmap.c: ws indent
05:55.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34647 10/brlcad/trunk/src/liboptical/sh_toyota.c: propagate the overlap reporting callback for reflected texture rays
05:56.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34648 10/brlcad/trunk/src/liboptical/ (refract.c sh_light.c): ws, style, indent, consistency cleanup
05:59.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34649 10/brlcad/trunk/src/liboptical/sh_light.c: the biggest offenders of all when there are many light sources and/or lots of shadow calsbs. shoot an abundance of shadow rays but now utilizing the same overlap verbosity as the primary application ray.
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06:03.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34650 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
06:03.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: all of the raytracers should now respect an application-defined overlap callback
06:03.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: including (most importantly) the ability to have a lot of light sources with
06:03.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: shadows and not have overlaps profusely reported particularly when the ray
06:03.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: tracer is told to be quiet.
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10:28.24d-lomernin all!
10:30.56d-lobrlcad: Heh, so what prompted the rt/light fix in r34650 ? =D
10:38.49d-lobrlcad: Kudos on the lighting Wiki page!  +1 Digg
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11:43.07starseekerstaggers back to an awake state
11:46.51d-loStaggers?  heh, have a good night then eh?
11:51.42starseekernope.  Cat knocked over a lamp with an old style circular bulb in it (think office celing light, just curved into a circle) so I got to get home and spend time on glass cleanup and laundry
11:52.07starseekertried hard to get some NURBS work done but brain shut down just before 2am
11:52.57starseekeris surprised indianlarry isn't in yet
11:53.31d-loI think he is here....
11:53.46d-lohere, as in at work, if not on irc
11:53.48starseekerindianlarry: online?
11:55.03indianlarryyes sorry
11:55.08starseekernp - morning!
11:55.16indianlarryhow it go
11:55.43starseeker's brain thinks it should still be in the OFF setting - I'm convincing it otherwise
11:55.57starseekerhad a couple questions on the trimming code
11:56.04indianlarrysure
11:56.31starseekerif I've got it right, the CurveTree is being built in the preprocess-trims stage, and does not persist beyond that stage currently?
11:56.49starseekeri.e., when we get to the utah_isTrimmed stage the tree isn't present?
11:57.14indianlarrythe curves should be attached to each 3d subdivision
11:57.27starseekerok - where are they stored?
11:59.16starseekerknows that's embarassingly basic - sorry
12:00.27indianlarryin the top surfacetree object there's an xsorted list of all curve segments 'm_sortedX' ad an y sorted list 'm_sortedY'
12:00.41indianlarrysorry probably need to change to U,V references
12:00.47starseekerah, ok
12:00.52indianlarrythen in each subdivision
12:01.50indianlarrythere is an 'm_trims_above' and an 'm_trims_right' list
12:02.30indianlarryso far it looks like i can remove the right and ysorted list
12:02.32starseekerdoes it being private mean we won't be able to get at it from brep.cpp?
12:03.02starseekerindianlarry: I'd leave them for the moment
12:03.20indianlarryjust intend to access through member functions like isTrimmed(u,v)
12:03.22starseekerat least, until we hit it with some tougher geometry
12:03.51starseekerOh, I see
12:04.01indianlarryi'll put the quick linear is in test should get us one step closer before newton
12:04.07starseekercool
12:04.16indianlarryyou all stay up too late
12:04.27starseekerheh
12:04.52indianlarryi'll get crackin and try to clean it up a bit
12:05.24starseekernp - I saw that TODO about finding multiple overlapping boxes and figured that was needed for the more "detailed" trimming
12:05.50starseekeropennurbs_ext.h line 909 currently
12:06.41indianlarryyea should only happen in special cases but can happen (sharp edge turned back on self)
12:07.19starseekerthought we were going to make a list of all overlapping trim segments and store that for an isTrimmed test, but perhaps the above+right method gives us a subset that contains that subset and is "close enough" without doing the extra work of identifying the actually overlapping line segments
12:08.18starseekeris the set of above+right guaranteed to contain all possible intersecting trim line segments?
12:08.28indianlarryactually just the above should give us everything i'll probably remove the right
12:08.35starseekerreally
12:08.42starseekerhuh
12:09.08indianlarryi think so
12:09.46starseekeroh, right - do the brain experiment of trying to construct a trim line that intersects, has a line segment to the right, and NOT a line segment in or above (both of which should show up as "above"?)
12:10.04indianlarryyou got it
12:10.25starseeker<Windows NT booting noise>
12:10.28starseekerbrain coming up
12:10.34indianlarryheh
12:11.15indianlarrydo you try openbook?
12:11.27starseekeryeah - it actually looks impressive!
12:11.37indianlarryhow long in prep
12:11.49starseekerbecause it has so many small nurbs surfaces, it actually gets startlingly close
12:11.56starseekernot too long
12:12.02starseekerSean wasn't at all bothered
12:12.09indianlarrycool we're on the way
12:15.14starseekerindianlarry: so for the IsTrimmed test, you will take the list of above line segments from the m_trims_above subdivision entry, check each segment bounding box to see if it truly is above or inside, and if inside find the box with the closest linear approximation based closest point to the hit point?
12:15.49starseekerthen if we need to, inside that last box we can go from the linear approx. based test to an actual closest point test?
12:17.29indianlarryyes
12:17.48starseekerok, I get it now :-)
12:18.00indianlarryi'm thinkang about carrying the vdot to bound the iteration
12:18.38indianlarryand precomputed slope
12:18.39starseekermight be a good idea
12:19.32starseekeris glad he didn't muck with the code too much last night - would have done waaaay more work for less benefit
12:19.56starseekerwas mentally stuck on getting a list of JUST overlapping sections, not overlapping plus above
12:20.26starseekerwhen the correct answer is probably "meh, we can sort that out cheaply and quickly at IsTrimmed"
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12:21.31indianlarryhopefully i'll have something before you get in
12:21.37starseekerthinks some ascii-art uv space pictures might be in order for code documentation of these structures...
12:21.48starseekerindianlarry: probably - I've got to get it together here :-)
12:21.55starseekerindianlarry: awesome, awesome work
12:23.40indianlarrystarseeker: your idea
12:25.24starseekernot so much with how do deal with the trimming curves and boxes
12:25.33starseekerer to deal with
12:26.06starseekerhunts for a way to ascii art output vector drawings...
12:29.07starseekermaybe create by hand, we'll see
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13:24.44starseekerhere are some text versions of the uv parameter space:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/uvfig.txt
13:24.52madantbrlcad: can i have access to a decent computer somewhere :) something which has lesser than 2 hour build time i mean
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14:16.04brlcadstarseeker: what are the vertical lines?
14:47.26starseeker2D raytrace paths
14:58.43``Erikwhy, is that a metaball on that lighting page? :D
15:00.16brlcadbecause it's what I snarfed from wikipedia
15:00.27``Erikdoh
15:02.37``Erikthen you should probably do something to note where it came from or something to comply with the gfdl
15:06.36brlcadi did
15:06.43brlcadfeel free to make it better :P
15:17.36``Erikoh, click to follow, okie
15:17.46``Erikyou're not in today? (at least, not in the next 13 minutes?)
15:33.05*** join/#brlcad elena (n=elena@89.136.118.141)
15:43.33*** join/#brlcad elena (n=elena@89.136.118.141)
15:48.16elenahi
16:19.21starseekerhey elena
16:19.33elenahi starseeker
16:19.35starseekerhow's it going?
16:19.52elenaalmost ready with the theme.
16:20.01elenai've worked locally until now
16:20.09elenaand soon will start to use svn.
16:20.21starseekeryeah, you need to be using svn throughout
16:20.30starseekerneed an intro to it?
16:20.33elenabrlcad said i should use it and commit frequent.
16:20.42starseekerhe's right
16:21.02elenai read about it and i checkout the more folder
16:21.05starseekerif you're not set up for that, that's definitely the next thing to do
16:21.08elenawhich is empty now.
16:21.23starseekeruh, I thought it was web
16:21.29starseekerchecks
16:21.38elenaweb/htdocs/more
16:22.01starseekerok.  you're working in that directory?
16:22.22elenai guess so. isn't that where I should?
16:22.39starseekersure.  just need to commit
16:22.54elenaaha.
16:23.05elenai was expecting to find the drupal code in d folder.
16:23.16elenabut only has the site settings.
16:23.33elenain the more may i commit the drupal code?
16:23.41elenaor it goes in some other place?
16:24.37starseekergo ahead and commit - we can always undo
16:24.46starseekerput it where it works, we can fix it if we need to
16:24.46elenaok.
16:24.59elenathis is the theme i started with http://drupal-5x.themebot.org/?theme=fireflystreamcom
16:25.31elenabut i made some changes to it.
16:26.04elenai liked the colors.
16:26.06elena:)
16:26.35starseekerdon't worry about the theme much - first order of business is the core functionality
16:26.42starseekerthemes later
16:26.47elenaok.
16:27.21elenai'll get an preview version this week.
16:28.10starseekersounds good :-)
16:28.19elenacan you check is the svn tags are ok?
16:28.21starseekeryou can check in without being finished
16:28.39starseekertags?
16:28.40elenabrlcad said you could make sure they are "set properly".
16:28.51elenai don't know exactly how to do that.
16:29.02elenamaybe he did it when added more to the svn.
16:30.09starseekerOK, I'll check with him and do what needs doing
16:30.13starseekerif anything
16:30.14elenai believe that is what he said "tags set properly". sorry, I don't remember exactly :(
16:30.25elenathank you.
16:30.36elena~log
16:30.37ibotwell, log is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23wowhead/
16:30.37starseekeryou can commit?
16:31.23elenai didn't try yet. i have the code in another folder.
16:31.23starseekerI think it's actually http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/
16:31.45starseekermight as well give it a whirl and see :-)
16:31.55elenaok. i will.
16:32.09starseekerDon't be shy - we're here to help :-)
16:32.18elena:)
16:32.34starseekerI've committed any number of embarassingly bad things
16:33.47starseekerand I can't spell :-P
16:35.11elenai found it. he said: "the basics are pretty simple, perhaps starseeker can help walk you through setting up a new repository module with the trunk/branches/tags set up properly"
16:35.31elenabut then asked for my sf username and maybe he did it.
16:35.51elenahttp://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/20090601.html.gz
16:36.16starseekerkinda looks like there are branches and tags directories, but I doubt we'll need them yet
16:36.26elenaok.
16:36.37starseekerunless he's got something specific in mind, I would expect you'd work in trunk
16:36.52starseekerchecks log
16:37.47starseekerwell, maybe...
16:39.07starseekerah, yeah - we're using the "web" module so we don't need to set up a new one
16:39.21elenaok.
16:39.30elenamodule == folder ?
16:39.56starseekerkinda
16:40.04starseekerfunctionally that's about it
16:41.11starseekerbasically work you do won't impact work in the iBME, brlcad or jbrlcad efforts (which have their own build systems, etc.)
16:41.30elenaaha.
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17:50.32elenai get:
17:50.38elenasvn: Commit failed (details follow):
17:50.45elenaCommit blocked by pre-commit hook (exit code 1) with output:
17:50.59elena/var/local/mastertree/host/sfp-svn/hook-scripts/check-mime-type.pl:
17:51.15elenathen for each file says: svn:mime-type is not set
17:51.48elenain the end it suggests to use svn propset svn:mime-type for each file.
17:53.02elenaor :  You may want to consider uncommenting the auto-props section in your ~/.subversion/config file.
17:53.28elenaoh. obvious. :)
17:53.40d-lorighto.  If you are trying to commit code, then use 'svn propset svn:mime-type text/plain'
17:53.49d-loor whatever mime-type is needed.
17:54.17elenai'll uncomment that line since there are too many files to do it manually.
17:54.42elenai didn't understand what it says until I pasted it. :)
17:57.40d-loirc will eventually solve the world's problems. :)
17:59.21``Erikby removing humans from it? :D
18:07.31*** join/#brlcad indianlarry (n=indianla@bz.bzflag.bz)
18:11.21d-lo``Erik: only certain humans
18:12.04``Eriknamely; those that use irc? :D
18:14.04d-lothat cyclic logic just made my nose bleed.... :/
18:14.23brlcadmadant: still working on it, but you might have to just go with slow (and learn how to only do subbuilds) ..
18:14.35brlcadhaven't had the time to get things set up
18:16.35``Erik"how not to hummer your business" ow O.o
18:17.50brlcadelena: yeah, by using the existing 'web' module, the trunk/branches/tags was already set up, then I further cleaned up the checkout by putting in the more pertinent config files
18:18.26elenaok. thank you.
18:20.40brlcadelena: that's your own box of sand to work in, though, you can put what you want/need into there
18:21.18elenai'm about to.
18:21.26elenastill fighting svn :)
18:21.35starseekerelena: this is helpful http://brlcad.org/wiki/Mime-types
18:21.39elenai'll commit drupal first.
18:21.54elenai think i got it.
18:22.00elenacommiting now.
18:22.02elenathanks.
18:22.18starseekerthe subversion config there saves a LOT of the propset stuff
18:22.23elenait doesn't seem hard, it's just the first time.
18:23.42brlcadthe example config file on the wiki will auto-set props on a lot of file types
18:23.44starseekeryou will grow to love svn, especially after your first major accidental overwrite/save disaster ;-)
18:23.56brlcadbecause you want mime types to be set as wel as eol-style
18:24.44starseekerfor large commits of lots of new files, that config file is all but essential
18:25.02starseekerREALLY suggest getting it set up
18:25.31elenaok. i got it.
18:25.41elenai'll add drupal specific files, too
18:35.25elenagoes to get dinner
18:41.43brlcadhappy hunting
18:43.46brlcadelena: and you really must commit before doing any more work :)
18:44.28brlcadsame goes for everyone really
18:45.40brlcadhardest new dev behavior, antisocial, actually counterproductive in the long run the longer time between/until commits
18:56.44*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
18:59.20louipccould they set up a personal repo and merge their work in?
19:01.19*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net)
19:01.46brlcadlouipc: only if they're doing so several times a day
19:02.16brlcadthe point isn't so much the revision control as it is the communication of how and why development occurs to others, throughout the whole process
19:02.26brlcadnot just some checkpointed end-result
19:02.42brlcadit's a communication mechanism
19:02.47louipcyeah
19:03.23louipcI was thinking it could help wean new devs on the idea of frequent commits.
19:04.05brlcadusually happens best when they just dive in head first
19:04.13louipchaha good stuff
19:04.20brlcadso the benefits become evident more quickly
19:04.21brlcadseriously
19:04.46brlcadif it's only partial, the opposite occurs -- they'll wean themselves into less and less frequent commits eventually into isolation
19:06.03brlcadhappens nearly universal, particular when they're new or insecure or (intentionally or unintentionally) subversive and generally 'afraid' of being open about their development process
19:06.08brlcadand activities
19:06.28louipcI guess it depends on the person really
19:07.45brlcadit does, but the tendency is pretty universal particularly for new developers
19:07.52starseekertypically the fear is betray of inexperience/inability - everybody starts out that way, but none of us like to admit it ;-)
19:08.05louipcyeah
19:08.17brlcadnobody wants to show their mistakes
19:08.23starseekerthe point isn't don't make mistakes - the point is figure them out and fix 'em
19:08.39brlcadwant everything to be "just perfect" before they share it, like working on a piece of art that is finally unveiled
19:09.23brlcadunfortunately, these are living works of art that have to be worked on by others if they are to survive, long after their contribution
19:09.32starseekerthis trend can be encouraged by environments that a) punish mistakes and b) take a silly mistake as evidence of incompetence
19:09.39louipcthat's why I like the idea of patches and reviewing them with others, they don't need to go into the working code until they're right
19:09.55louipcbut you still get the communication and everything
19:10.17starseekergood project management has to be very constructive - work to solve problems and improve people's skills
19:10.26brlcadcode is easily read 10 times more than it is written, communicating intention and process throughout the development becomes critical, otherwise it's actually 'cheaper' to throw their contribution out the window and rewrite it from scratch
19:11.09brlcad(openly)
19:11.27louipcyep
19:12.32starseekerthe only times when there is justification for working long on code in isolation is something like a mathematical algorithm in a CAS system where it is easy to get code that produces AN answer and it's (very) difficult to be sure it's the RIGHT answer just by looking at the answer.  In that case, releasing code that gives "an" answer is an invitation to misuse.  But such cases are EXTREMELY rare
19:13.46starseekerI don't think BRL-CAD really has any such cases - the closest is probably analytical ray tracing for things like weight or surface area, but even there the answer itself serves as a sanity check - it has physical meaning
19:16.09``Erikof course, releasing code that gives "an" answer may invite people to review and possibly correct or ask useful questions
19:16.55starseekermy experience with mathematical software suggests it's far more likely to be used by people to solve pratical problems than to be reviewed with the care necessary to detect subtle errors
19:17.27starseekerthere is a reason mathematical problems drive formal methods in coding ;-)
19:17.45louipcjust make sure you put a disclaimer
19:17.51``Erikheh, and there's a reason that copy&paste coding is considered harmful :D
19:18.26starseekercopy/paste in what sense?
19:18.36louipcI copy paste
19:18.47``Erikpeople who grab code without understanding what it does and shove it in
19:19.34starseekerah.  I was thinking more along the lines of people solving engineering problems and plugging their values into a "solver" for their particular equation
19:20.48``Erikso like a copy&paste coder who uses a library without knowing what it does underneath and doesn't care to learn because it's already there? :D
19:21.30``Erikwe were actually having a discussion about which sorting algorithm to use for the nurb trimming this morning, heh :D
19:22.16louipchaha I was taught the virtues of not knowing/caring what a library's function was doing, only what you put in and got out
19:22.32starseeker``Erik: in commercial coding, they probably won't LET you see the code behind the library
19:22.36louipckind of bad I guess...
19:22.58``Erikwell, I'm thinking basic operations, like the set and sort stuff in jabba
19:23.16``Erik*shrug*
19:23.28starseekerbasic operations are more likely to be correct, just statistically speaking
19:23.43starseekersimpler, more use cases that will shake out errors
19:23.44``Erikone of the neat things about STL was that it explicitely defined the asymptotic behavior
20:06.11*** join/#brlcad andax (n=andax__@d213-102-41-16.cust.tele2.ch)
20:18.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34651 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): started second level of NURB trimming using linear approximation
20:38.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34652 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/ (327 files in 52 dirs): Initial commit. Drupal 5.18
20:38.39brlcadwoot :)
20:38.44brlcad~elena++
20:38.50starseekerexcellent
20:39.55brlcadstarseeker: even when working on a mathematical algorithm, you're not necessarily releasing that effort into production -- committing doesn't mean it has to be enabled for end-user use
20:41.02brlcadquite the contrary, you can get some synergy where someone instantly recognizes a flaw early that saves the would-be-isolationist from going down the wrong path with bad assumptions/axioms for hours/days/weeks on end
20:41.19brlcador help with testing the implementation or documenting right away, etc
20:42.28elenahurray. it finished.
20:42.31brlcadmost of what you refer to is a matter of making it user-visible and announced or at least active for use
20:42.39brlcadelena: hurrah! :)
20:42.46elenait turns out i had to remove everything and svn add them again.
20:42.58brlcadyeah, props will do that
20:43.08brlcad(wiki page mentioned that) ;)
20:43.27elena:(
20:43.28starseekerbrlcad: true - I guess the problem with some of those projects is the line between "user visible" and "commited to public repository" isn't really there
20:43.48brlcadproject infrastructure
20:43.56starseekerelena: It will get better - commiting large amounts of other code generally causes the most trouble with props
20:44.12starseekershudders at the memory of the docbook commits...
20:44.14brlcadhave to provide some way for code to develop openly but distinguished from vetted algorithms
20:44.17elenabtw, you should change the room title...
20:45.12elenanow that config is set, the following adds/commits should work ok.
20:46.04elenanow i'll checkout on the server :)
20:46.45``Erikfind . -name .whatever -print0 | xargs -0 svn propset ...
20:46.58``Erik*.whatever, even
20:47.05``Erik:D
20:48.06*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.8 posted (20090511) || GSoC2009 Next Step: code code, type type, commit! commit frequently (multiple times daily) while you work. update wiki daily on progress.
20:54.44*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.8 posted (20090511) || GSoC2009 Next Step: code code, type type, commit frequently while you work! update wiki/blog on daily progress.
20:55.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34653 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/.htaccess: Initial commit. Drupal 5.18 (cont)
20:57.34elenai forgot some (hidden) files.
20:57.54CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34654 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/profiles/default/ (. default.profile): Initial commit. Drupal 5.18 (cont)
21:00.26elenamay I create a database/user?
21:03.00*** join/#brlcad andax (n=andax__@d213-102-41-187.cust.tele2.ch)
21:06.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34655 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/: Added more.brlcad.org but svn:ignored.
21:11.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34656 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/themes/ (33 files in 3 dirs): Added fireflystream theme (initial commit)
21:16.50``Erikahhh hhhhaaaaaaaaaa
21:22.20brlcadelena: sure
21:22.26brlcadlet me know if you need a hand
21:22.31elenathanks.
21:22.47brlcadjust shouldn't allow remote connections
21:22.57elenaok.
21:24.45brlcadelena: you didn't have to use 5.x simply because the current site is
21:24.56brlcaddon't know if that was why or just because it's more stable
21:25.21elenai like it better than 6.
21:25.32brlcadPrezKennedy: you there?
21:30.19elenabrlcad I can't create it. i don't have the rights.
21:30.52elenacan you help me?
21:36.21*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@80-219-40-111.dclient.hispeed.ch)
21:53.16brlcadyup, send me user/pass in pm
22:22.56*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-117.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
23:18.29*** join/#brlcad indianlarry (n=indianla@bz.bzflag.bz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
23:19.31*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
23:20.22Ralithanyone else having lots of [near-]timeouts?
23:44.11brlcadRalith: I was, but not now
23:48.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34657 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/opennurbs_ext.h src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp):
23:48.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: closest NURBS trimming curve shouldn't ever be NULL - assign closest to the
23:48.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: first curve in all cases, then check for anything better. Visual artifacts now
23:48.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: more consistent with that expected for stage 2 trimming - activating and
23:48.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: committing.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090604

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090604

00:04.34starseekernow we're getting somewhere:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/d2_second_stage_trimming.png
00:04.47starseeker~indianlarry++
00:06.31starseekerstill some artifacts, some due to not being the final "smooth" trim and some probably due to other problems, but none the less - wwwoooottt!
00:31.26indianlarrystarseeker: you still there
00:31.39``ErikO.o
00:31.46indianlarrywhat up
00:31.59``Erikwow is evil.
00:33.38indianlarryclan larry
00:35.00indianlarrystarseeker: look great
00:35.15indianlarrylookx
00:35.17indianlarrylooks
00:45.17``Eriknoms his salad
01:17.57starseekeris back
01:18.31starseekerindianlarry: isn't that cool?  nice job!
01:34.20*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1178015440.dsl.bell.ca)
01:54.24*** part/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-98-227-157-38.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
02:05.26brlcadstarseeker: indianlarry: pretty cool, getting down to the floats!
02:06.04brlcadupdates to check his test cases
02:06.59brlcadgets giddy
02:08.41starseekernot down to floats yet - next is the final close-to-trim solve
02:08.56starseekeronce that's done, we start debugging corner cases :-)
02:12.50brlcadyou're close
02:12.57brlcadthose sizes are getting sub-mm
02:13.14brlcadthat approaches the realm of floats
02:13.33brlcadnot yet close to the realm of doubles -- that's a ways off still
02:27.08brlcadneat.. they're much better behaved
02:28.24*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1178015440.dsl.bell.ca)
02:30.36starseekerawesome
03:08.12brlcadstarseeker: http://brlcad.org/tmp/nurbs1.png & nurbs2 through 4
03:09.06brlcad3 is pretty good, the other ones all have something interesting going on
03:30.55starseekerwinces
03:30.58starseekerouch
03:32.46starseekerthat's depressing
03:47.31brlcadoh no, you should have seen how bad they *were* :D
03:50.52brlcadthey do indicate various logic issues remaining though
06:50.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34658 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/CMakeLists.txt: temporary(?) tcl header lookup
07:23.59*** join/#brlcad _clock_ (n=_sushi_@84-72-91-14.dclient.hispeed.ch)
08:22.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34659 10/rt^3/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): added the torus (ID_TOR) primitive
10:40.10*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.202.244)
11:39.05CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34660 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: add a note about making sure to remove the include from CMakeLists.txt too
11:39.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34661 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/CMakeLists.txt: included the Torus from the core interface in the brlcad.dll
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12:38.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34662 10/rt^3/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): function provided for convenience: simple Get() and Set() for database-Objects
12:45.06PrezKennedybrlcad, im here now
12:45.13brlcadPrezKennedy: heh, too late
12:45.25brlcadstephen was asking if you were there
12:45.36PrezKennedyhaha
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13:11.05d-loNothing like a power outage to start the work day off right :)
13:17.27*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:54.35``Erikheh
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17:38.07brlcadindianlarry: ping
18:04.57``Erikstarseeker won't leave him alone :D
18:05.42``Eriktalking about uv curves and stuff, I think they're getting ready to go sunbathing O.O
18:06.32d-lodoesn't want *any* part of those kind of curves.... *retches*
18:06.34d-lo=D
18:08.19indianlarrybrlcad: pong
18:20.28starseeker``Erik: when I get dug deep into a problem, I become a tad obsessive
18:21.38``Eriksolve how I'm going to retire to a private carribean or south pacific island in the next 3 months
18:21.38``Erik:D
18:22.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34663 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h: added new curve estimator for trims
18:23.03starseekerindianlarry: thanks!
18:24.24starseeker``Erik: depends - are you OK with getting out one step ahead of the law?
18:32.02``Erikhahaha
18:42.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34664 10/rt^3/trunk/src/coreInterface/Torus.cpp: use the right bad_alloc
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23:41.22``Erikhah, ran into a /usr/lib/librt.so on a linux box, nifty
23:42.50Ralithhehe
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090605

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090605

00:23.47*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1178015440.dsl.bell.ca)
00:51.04*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=pacman87@pool-173-57-41-37.dllstx.fios.verizon.net)
01:03.13``Erikheh, pheer ~{ ~}
01:10.55Ralith?
01:11.17Ralithas in, the lisp format thingies?
01:25.20``Erikyeah
01:27.25Ralithhas been teaching himself lisp
01:27.30Ralithvery fun stuff.
01:28.14``Erikindeed
01:28.20*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=pacman87@pool-173-57-41-37.dllstx.fios.verizon.net)
01:57.18brlcadhowdy pacman87
01:57.42brlcadready to code yet? :)
02:00.48*** join/#brlcad mike (n=mike@cadil21.kaist.ac.kr)
02:00.56Mike111hi all
02:03.44brlcadhowdy Mike111
02:04.19Mike111hi brlcad; how are you?
02:09.02Mike111I will have a non-brlcad model supplied (maybe as IGES or DXF). I want to change the model, that is, replace an original object (component in the model) with my own. How do I do that?
02:09.16brlcadi'm great, busy times but great
02:09.26brlcadcan't wait to see how these renders turn out...
02:09.50brlcadMike111: it totally depends on the supplied model and how it's structured
02:10.55Mike111they model won't be a brl-cad format so there won't be a `tree' of combinations or primitives
02:10.56brlcadmany imports come in as polygonal meshes, which suck to edit (in brl-cad) beyond affine transforms (translation/rotation/scale) and delete/duplicate/replace
02:11.13brlcadit may still be a collection of 'parts'
02:11.34brlcadif your editing intent is to replace a given part, you should be able to delete the part and replace it with your own
02:12.37Mike111is there a way to automate this, if I need to do this repeatedly for the same model (try several different components)
02:14.45``Erikyou're asking if BRL-CAD can automatically remove regions and replace them with other (different) geometry? O.o
02:15.36Mike111if I can script this operation, that is, define which part I want to remove, remove it and then attach the new part
02:15.38brlcadif what you're doing is identically repetitive or repetitive in some prescribed pattern, sure it could be automated
02:15.51brlcadheavily scriptable system
02:15.59brlcadpick your poison/language
02:16.15brlcadtcl inside mged, anything outside
02:16.27``Erikplus the clone and pattern tools
02:16.53brlcadexample scripting here: http://brlcad.org/wiki/SGI_Cube
02:17.00Mike111so far I've written script which I just piped in mged (a series of mged commands)
02:17.25Mike111the SGI example is good. clear to follow.
02:17.51Mike111Erik: what are those?
02:18.19``Erikcommands inside of mged
02:20.17brlcadMike111: lots of commands categorized and listed in: http://brlcad.org/w/images/5/52/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf
02:20.30brlcadas well as the appendix of the MGED Tutorial
02:21.54Mike111Thanks.
02:22.31Mike111still not clear to me how exactly do I select a part of a DXF or IGES model.
02:24.14``Erikdepends on how it converts
02:24.40Mike111brl-cad can import these formats directly, right?
02:25.14brlcadyes, there's dxf-g and iges-g
02:25.31brlcadif they have multiple objects, they will import as multiple objects
02:25.38brlcadgive it a try, see what it does :)
02:26.31Mike111once I loaded a DXF or IGES model, how do I check its `tree'? with `ls'?
02:27.33``Eriksure, or fire up the geometry viewer
02:27.49brlcadtops, l, ls *, tree, ...
02:28.08brlcadlots of ways -- Tools -> Geometry Browser will show you graphically
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02:30.41Mike111do you know a good GPL meshing program?
02:31.05starseekeryou mean mesh editing or mesh conversion?
02:32.45Mike111I mean meshing a model (not conversion), that is, taking a 3d model and creating a mesh (say unstructured) on the skin
02:33.25Mike111Other applications (such as structural analysis) need a mesh to analyze a model
02:33.28starseekerum.  it depends on what input data you're starting with.  point cloud?  CSG model?  nurbs surface?
02:34.42Mike111I will have a CSG model which I generate in brl-cad.
02:35.14``Erikg-stl ?
02:35.24Mike111Later on, I may have a model which is imported (DXF or IGES) plus a component made in brl-cad
02:35.45Mike111Erik: you mean exporting the brl-cad model into stl?
02:36.29brlcadmany of our exporters mesh on output
02:36.36brlcadg-dxf, g-stl, g-obj, g-nff, g-x3d, etc
02:36.41``Erikplus there's an mged command called "facetize" which converts the named region to a triangle version
02:37.05brlcadthose formats don't support CSG or implicit geometry, so we have to convert to their representation
02:39.23brlcadif you really want to get fancy for FEA purposes, the recommended approach would probably be to buy a Cubit license ($300 for 5-years) and use our g-sat converter which hooks to Cubit
02:39.33brlcadtheir meshing facilities are some of the best for FEA
02:40.25brlcadas for free, there's not really a lot of good meshers for FEA purposes that are open source, at least not that preserve solidity
02:54.59Mike111the lab here used a mesh generator running on CentOS linux.
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02:55.30Mike111as I understand, it needs an IGES file which `only describes the skin' (outer surface of the model)
02:55.37Mike111that's what the lab users just told me
02:56.58brlcadyeah, iges supports a wide variety of geometry including skin-only models
02:57.25brlcadwe call them "plate-mode bots", and such an iges should import as such iirc
02:57.31Mike111can I directly export the model as `skin-only' from brl-cad or one its exporters?
02:57.42brlcad"bots" == "bag of triangles"
02:58.07brlcadwe only export skin-only if it imported as skin-only
02:58.41Mike111what is I create the model in brl-cad from scratch?
02:58.57brlcadthose are solid models
03:00.11Mike111so they cannot be exported as `skin-only'?
03:00.32brlcada solid model that is tessellated to a bot is trivial to convert to a plate-mode bot
03:00.59brlcadI'm not sure I believe that you actually need skin models though, *especially* if it's for a mesher designed for FEA
03:01.19brlcada general content mesher, sure
03:01.26brlcadbut not one for analytic purposes
03:01.58brlcadI'd bet your lab is abusing some non-analytic mesher tool (simply because it was free and did the job)
03:02.41brlcadhm, looks like our iges exporter will not export plate-mode bots
03:04.40Mike111what about the option you mentioned on tesselating a bot and converting it to a plate-mode bot?
03:12.43brlcadthat's possible but it wouldn't do anything useful for you
03:12.56brlcadbefore guessing, you probably should just take a very simple test case and see how it works
03:13.03brlcadmake a sphere
03:13.11brlcadexport that sphere as dxf, iges, and stl
03:13.25brlcadsee how each import into that mesh tool
03:13.49brlcadthen try importing something, export it as dxf, iges, and stl .. see how it imports into the mesher
03:14.23brlcadthat will answer way more questions than speculating on what is possible, our terminology, their terminology, your understanding, etc ;)
03:23.43Mike111OK, I'll give it a try and take it from there.
03:24.39brlcadcool, please update on how it goes!
03:25.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34665 10/brlcad/trunk/ (BUGS TODO): the shaders.sh regression test case is failing due to a change in view initialization. needs to be fixed.
03:26.01Mike111The Lighting tutorial is clear. Howeverm, now the link is missing from the brlcad wiki page.
03:28.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:77.120.80.206]] with an expiry time of infinite (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
03:28.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1461 10/wiki/Main_Page: Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/77.120.80.206|77.120.80.206]] ([[User talk:77.120.80.206|Talk]]); changed back to last version by [[User:98.218.53.50|98.218.53.50]]
03:28.27brlcadfixed
03:28.49brlcadit's a wiki .. you can fix it if it happens again ;)
03:28.59brlcadjust select History, see what happened
03:29.14Mike111sure, thanks for the info.
03:29.37brlcadif you compare a revision to the previous, it'll show the changed lines.  you can see in that one that someone spammed a link this morning
03:30.31Mike111nasty
03:31.11brlcadhappens
03:31.17Mike111how do I place light sources in specific locations, such as in the tutorial?
03:31.19brlcadit's trivial to revert
03:31.31brlcadyou create geometry, put it where you want
03:31.52brlcade.g., there I created little spheres
03:32.18brlcadyou put them in a region and mark the shader as a 'light'
03:32.39Mike111so if a primitive has only the `Light' shader enable they essentially act only as light sources?
03:33.06Mike111so if a primitive has only the `Light' shader enable it essentially acts only as a light source?
03:33.07brlcad'only' as light sources?
03:33.50brlcadwhen you apply the light shader, it's considered a light, which means it illuminates the scene
03:33.56brlcadcreating a light disables the default lights
03:34.14brlcadrather, rendering a scene with a light in it disables the defaults
03:34.25brlcadnot just creating it, have to have it in your scene ;)
03:34.35Mike111that's the -A0 setting?
03:34.46brlcadno, that's the ambient energy in the scene
03:35.48brlcadthat page isn't meant to explain everything about lighting -- there's too much to cover for that short space -- it's meant to explain lighting _after_ you already understand how to create a light :)
03:36.06brlcadthe tutorial series covers lighting iirc
03:36.22Mike111you mean volume II?
03:36.24brlcadbut basically you create geometry, apply light shader, then render
03:36.50brlcadII or III -- that's the series
03:41.11Mike111Vol. II, p.124:"The light shader is technically complex and not discussed in this tutorial". :(
03:41.11brlcadmake sph sph ; r light.r u sph ; mater light.r light 255 0 0 0
03:41.23brlcadthat will make a red spherical light
03:41.34brlcadso maybe it was III
03:42.46brlcador not..
03:42.57Mike111I'll check later in detail.
03:43.01brlcaddon't see a light ref
03:44.45brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/ugm2002/ShadingObjects.pdf covers it a little bit
03:45.20brlcadbut if you run that line I gave you and then edit the object with the combination editor (then select 'shader'), you'll see the options
03:45.53Mike111I was looking at these options yesterday, after reading the lighting tutorial
03:47.59Mike111can you clarify what are the `fraction' and `lumens'? settings for intensity?
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03:57.11brlcadignore lumens
03:57.23brlcadfraction is the % contribution to the scene
03:57.41brlcadso if you have just one light, it contributes 100%
03:57.51brlcadyou can make it twice as bright by making it 200%
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03:58.30Mike111so it's basically the intensity?
03:58.41brlcadif you have two lights with fractions 1 and 1, they'll both be contributing 100% respectively (resulting in the same 'intensity' as one light at 200%)
03:58.54brlcadbasically, but it's balanced among all lights in your scene
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03:59.40Mike111ok. what are `angle' and `target'?
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04:01.19brlcadangle is the direction the light faces
04:01.27brlcader, sorry, target
04:01.38brlcadtarget is the direction
04:02.05brlcadangle is the angle of the light cone -- default is 180 degrees
04:02.15brlcad20 degrees would make a sort of "spotlight"
04:02.35brlcad.1 degree would be like a laser
04:02.49brlcad5 degrees like a flashlight, etc
04:03.00Mike111you mean how much the light is `spread'?
04:03.03brlcadright
04:03.37brlcadthey're directional by default, not omnidirectional
04:03.55Mike111would 360 give an omnidirectional source?
04:04.06brlcadyou know, I don't remember :)
04:04.49Mike111180 means the source only emits towards the `bottom'?
04:05.39Mike111so that's why you need a target? to specify a direction vector around which the light `spreads'?
04:12.15Mike111brlcad: sorry but I need to go now. I'm logging the chat so if you reply I'll view that later. Cheers
04:14.21brlcadright
04:14.30brlcadthat's direction and the spread/angle
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04:48.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03173.57.41.37 07http://brlcad.org * r1462 10/wiki/User:Pacman87: /* About me */
04:49.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03173.57.41.37 07http://brlcad.org * r1463 10/wiki/User:Pacman87: /* About me */
04:54.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34666 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/opennurbs_ext.h src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp):
04:54.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: linear approximation a lot closer, now need to get the final newton
04:54.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: step working on the trims. I do see some artifacts from the tangent sign
04:54.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: change in the UV horizontal(v) but as discussed that should be an easy fix,
04:54.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: The hit checks (odd/even) are back on so you may see some background specks
04:54.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: around edges - this seems to have cleaned up some of the odd looking behavior
04:54.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: in the images BRLCAD generated (but didn't check all models)
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09:04.50brlcadindianlarry: up late eh? :)
09:22.39Ralitharen't we all?
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09:33.51Axman6brlcad: do/have you done any Ada programming? (i feel i've asked you this before, so sorry if i have)
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10:21.32Ralithsleeps
11:32.25d-loMernin all!
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11:50.30starseekerindianlarry: awesome!
11:51.48starseekerthank you!
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12:18.49starseekerscowls at jove - where did "jove.h:431: error: conflicting types 'getline'" come from?
12:39.51starseekerhmm - some sort of getline definition in stdio.h... ugh
13:01.01starseekerdisables jove building and moves on with life
13:02.32``Eriksvn rm ftw O.o
13:04.09starseekerblinks at the number of format argument complaints he's getting
13:04.30starseekerserves me right for updating my system - now I'll bet my gcc/automake combo is too new to work again...
13:06.33``Erikeh?
13:07.06starseekerruns gentoo unstable, so I tend to be uncomfortable close to the "cutting edge" of gcc/autotools versions
13:07.24``Erikhas a feeling that the actual problem is a more strict automake and an inferior package management system that did not update all the packages that installed (now old style) m4 files? :D
13:07.54starseekereh, possibly
13:08.07starseekernot sure how to spot that
13:08.12``Eriklots of "underquoted" issues?
13:08.35starseekerno, more complaints about "expects unsigned int, but given long int" or some such
13:08.45``Erikohhh, type issues, n/m :)
13:09.23``Erikwhat are your -W flags?
13:09.32starseekershould be default
13:09.49``Erikdoesn't remember default O:-)
13:10.22starseeker<PROTECTED>
13:11.05starseekeryeah, not sure
13:11.18starseekerisn't too concerned right now - more important that install works
13:11.34starseeker(me neeeeeds moooore cooores......)
13:11.46starseeker40 minute builds suck
13:12.17starseekerguesses when Qt/Ogre installs become part of the game the time will have come to upgrade this sucker
13:12.48_clock_Qt a part of brlcad install?
13:13.00starseekernot yet
13:13.06starseekerwe might never put it in
13:13.30starseekerbut Ralith is exploring combining the Qt toolkit with Ogre
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13:18.19starseekerhmm:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883107970
13:28.15starseekerwhat on earth:  /usr/bin/install: will not overwrite just-created `/usr/brlcad/share/man/man3/librle.3' with `../../../../brlcad/src/other/libutahrle/librle.3'
13:29.45starseekersees duplicate entry in Makefile... how did it get there...
13:33.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34667 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/libutahrle/Makefile.am: Remove duplicate entry for librle.3
13:36.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34668 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtienet/Makefile.am: Remove duplicate tienet_util.h entry
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13:39.51``Erikponders the breakage in opennurbs
13:40.08``Eriksrc/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_system.h:150: error: expected identifier or '(' before '/' token
13:40.12``Erikline #'s must be off
13:40.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34669 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Windows/Makefile.am: Remove duplicate entry for pane_collapse.png
13:41.20starseekerblinks
13:42.44starseeker``Erik: where are you seeing that?
13:42.52``Erikamd64 fbsd7
13:42.53starseekerwhat OS I mean
13:42.55starseekerah
13:43.24``Erikknew what ya meant :D
13:44.24starseekergets the latest nurbs raytrace of shape1.s - swwwweeeeet
13:45.08starseekerok, so that was it - my toolset is suddenly picky about duplicate file listings in Makefile.am
13:45.13starseeker<snort>
13:45.20starseekeroh, well - legit errors I suppose
13:45.32starseekeralrightie, I'm on the road
13:46.44d_rossberg``Erik: // => /* */
13:46.54``Erikyes, compiling with that
13:47.08``Erikwanted the compile to finish before I commited :)
13:47.57``Erikthere're more of those, I'll wait until I get them all and commit 'em all at once
13:48.10d_rossbergisn't // already legal in C code?
13:49.34``Erikit's c99
13:50.26``ErikI'm compiling with "-W -Wall -ansi -pedantic" because I'm nuts
13:54.03``Erikmeh, screw it, we'll just say c99 is required for opennurbs :D
13:54.49d_rossbergopennurbs is C++ :P
13:54.59``Erikit's mostly c++, there're 2 C files in it
13:55.27``Erikwhich is how I'm tripping that issue :)
14:33.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34670 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h:
14:33.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: added initial curve approximation to trims, still some fuzz, haven't optimized
14:33.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: merely replaced linear check for now i'm sure its slower
15:29.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34671 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h: pass in the full uv point in the curve iteration function (not sure I'll need it but if I do this will minimize the effort to swap out different curve solver attempts) - no functionality change
15:37.24indianlarrystarseeker: probably should have passed it in for good measure, could also use to stop iteration is v falls out of closeness (is that a word?)
15:37.49starseekernot sure :-)
15:38.15starseekerwas just going to take another stab at writing a newton iterator, looks like it needs both but I'm not totally sure
15:38.55starseekerprobably need the test of within the triangle defined by the normals and the line segment between the two end points too
15:38.59starseeker(ick)
15:39.16indianlarrysounds good i'm looking at getting rid of the horz v problem and checking a couple saw tooths
15:39.40starseekercooool
15:39.49starseeker(lunch, back in a bit)
15:40.08indianlarryokay
15:40.33indianlarry(cigar break)
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16:08.06madantis finally all set (sort of) .. sleepless nights here i come
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17:04.24starseekeris back
17:07.32``Eriksticks his finger up his nose
18:10.14``Erikheh http://www.newtechusa.com/PPI/pressroom.asp#higher
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18:17.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34672 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h: Add an attempt at a Newton iteration solver. Still waaay too many hard coded values chosen arbitrarily - doesn't seem to be better than Keith's initial curve approx.
18:32.54starseekerindianlarry: is this the kind of effect you're seeing?  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/edge_oddness.png
18:34.05starseekerI'm nirting through those cracks, and I'm not seeing any failed to converge errors... not sure what to make of it
18:38.07starseekerfwiw, a specific example is Origin (x y z) = (28.64 19.53 23.17), Direction (x y z) = (-0.7424 -0.5198 -0.4226)
18:51.31starseekerthat ALMOST looks like a sawtooth behavior - it doesn't seem to be a newton convergence issue, although I could be wrong.
19:06.16indianlarrystarseeker: i found the saw tooths, looks to be my error tolerences on the bulk BBoxes
19:06.52starseekernice work!
19:07.58indianlarrystarseeker: won't need to set error so high if i get the BBoxes breaking on the Horz/Vert peaks
19:08.07starseekernods
19:08.28indianlarrywould make curve lie on inside of BBox
19:10.44starseekerhow did you want to do that?  Newton converge to find the max within the bounding box?
19:10.52indianlarryfor sure
19:12.22starseekerponders how to approach that...
19:16.34indianlarrynot sure but at least 2d problem and brute forcing an iterative approach is doable especially in prep stage
19:16.56indianlarrystarseeker: sorry having connection problems
19:17.32indianlarrystarseeker: wow, now that's a saw tooth you posted
19:17.50indianlarrystarseeker: bur yes that's what i was seeing as well
19:17.51starseekerthat's a zoomed in sawtooth ;-)
19:17.59starseekerhaving connection problems too
19:18.30indianlarrystarseeker: in most places things seem pretty tight
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19:18.44starseekerindianlarry: what about checking the tangent vectors at the start and end points?  even if it is a special case, it might help
19:19.18indianlarrystarseeker: definitely, will start there
19:19.45indianlarrystarseeker: did brlcad try and raytrace that phone again?
19:20.03starseekerdon't think so - let me see if I can take a stab at it
19:20.21``Erikshouldn't you be enjoying scotch and a cigar instead of wanking around on irc? O.o :D *duck*
19:21.10indianlarry``Erik: something sensual about working in the raw and nobody knowing... oops
19:21.31``Erikwait, no one knowing?
19:21.35``Eriklooks for his pants O:-)
19:22.55indianlarryputs scitch back in cabinet
19:23.11indianlarrythen puts scotch back in cabinet
19:23.27starseekerthat how you can tell you've had enough? ;-)
19:23.52indianlarryalmost ;^{o>>>>>>>>>>>>>
19:25.56``Erikno, 'i' and 'o' are right next to eachother, that's the beginning of the buzz
19:26.11``Erikwhen he spells it "astjopch", ...
19:26.40starseekeractually doesn't see which one is the phone...
19:27.02indianlarrystarseeker: didn'y see it either
19:27.21indianlarryit is a laptop keyboard
19:28.05brlcadindianlarry: haha
19:29.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34673 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (34 files in 3 dirs): Added the p/parameter command to Archer.
19:29.28indianlarrybrlcad: where's the phone/pda dot.g
19:29.42brlcadlooks
19:30.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34674 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtie/ (tie.c tie_kdtree.c): Irrelevant type signing fixes. Remove unused parameters.
19:35.56brlcadindianlarry: hm, hm.. some good and bad news :)
19:36.09brlcadsomethings are rendering better, some not at all any more :)
19:36.18brlcadit's the HTC-Magician
19:36.44brlcad...which looks like wasn't uploaded!
19:37.02starseekerthought so
19:37.34brlcadgoing up now
19:37.47starseekerbrlcad: is that piston.g file THE piston?
19:38.03brlcadnope
19:38.06starseekerdidn't think so
19:38.32brlcadthat was before I found it, hunted for and checked a bunch of other pistons
19:38.40starseekerah
19:39.05brlcadhuh
19:39.11brlcadactually the phone did upload
19:39.19brlcadjust not showing in the listing for some reason
19:39.24brlcadah, permissions
19:39.34indianlarrybrlcad: hopefully it's an odd hit issue, noticed some elements (Pumkin text) were just single surfaces not solid
19:40.41brlcadindianlarry: it lists now
19:40.55indianlarrybrlcad: thanks
19:41.14brlcadindianlarry: yeah, the single surfaces weren't solid so that makes sense though rendering them as a thin surface was useful/interesting
19:41.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34675 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (libtienet/load.c libtienet/load.h slave/slave.c): revert back to magic void* for now
19:41.27brlcadimplicit plate-mode
19:41.54starseekerbrlcad: some of the geometry in this phone is failing isValid
19:42.08indianlarrybrlcad: just uncomment "//#define KODDHIT" in brep.cpp
19:42.52brlcadstarseeker: I know, that's some of them
19:43.15brlcadindianlarry: k
19:44.38CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34676 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpkg/tpkg.c: I don't think ports > 65535 make much sense...
19:50.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34677 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (16 files in 7 dirs): eliminate trailing whitespace
19:50.45starseekerbrlcad: I take it this sucker was valid geometry in Rhino?
19:51.02brlcadstarseeker: don't know, found model
19:51.14starseekerah
19:51.32brlcadI'd be surprised, though -- it wasn't a hobby job
19:55.14brlcadit's interesting to note that the iges one renders semi better with the old nurbs code
19:55.21brlcadsans trims
20:02.11starseekerbrlcad: I'm wondering about our 3dm importer - this phone geometry doesn't look so hot
20:02.25brlcadno doubt it needs work
20:02.36brlcadhalf the examples I found failed outright or aborted mid-stream
20:02.44brlcadthat's why I left both
20:02.57starseekerloaded it into Rhino and exported again - still bad geometry
20:03.06brlcaddisplays in rhino?
20:03.12starseekeryes
20:03.52brlcadso something to trace, could be that IsValid() is wrong or being used as a check incorrectly/unnecessarily
20:04.13brlcaddidn't investigate exactly the validity it's complaining about
20:04.45starseekerwe're sure this phone is supposed to be solid and not just a surface model?
20:05.14brlcadeh
20:05.18brlcadthat was never claimed
20:08.10brlcaddon't tell me you're just thinking of that? :)  i'll say it again, those are a set of fairly *random* 3dm files.  they are a random sampling of real models found around the net, obviously provoking a random set of issues across the board (import, validation, rendering, etc)
20:08.45starseekerwell, we've been focused on correct trimming
20:08.55starseekerone thing at a time
20:09.04brlcadof course
20:09.48brlcadwhat did you expect though?
20:10.08starseekerthought you would reject anything not claiming to be solid ;-)
20:11.34brlcadwell the original intent was hunting for the piston model, as I remembered it was readily available somewhere
20:11.51brlcadso it was more a matter of find 3dm, see what happens
20:11.54starseekerah
20:11.58starseekergot it
20:12.00brlcadstill a good measure of where things are at overall
20:12.25brlcadas those should all be well-*behaved* regardless of their structure
20:13.04brlcadnot saying that's the priority now, or the focus, or something to worry about right now even -- that was never the intention
20:14.47starseekerOK :-)
20:15.12starseekerwe (or I anyway) thought they were examples of wacked trimming behavior
20:15.25brlcadthey very well could be
20:15.32brlcadsome of them were clearly trimming poorly
20:17.41starseekerhmm:  http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/cox_cad_models.htm
20:19.06brlcadthose are pretty cool
20:20.51brlcadanyways, just gotta multitask the info from earlier, not to disregard/ignore but not to focus on to the point of ignoring the big picture -- just some more test cases that should be investigated (for variety of purposes)
20:21.44brlcadthey're found models -- some of the best ways towards making the tools robust and well-behaved, e.g. has me looking through the 3dm importer to see why (most)/many failed
20:22.07starseekernods
20:22.23brlcadas I did pretty much exactly what a user would have
20:22.38brlcadstashes those new 3dm's in and tests
20:23.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34678 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/Makefile.am: update dependancy information.
20:24.20starseekerthat PeeWee piston is a monster
20:24.25starseeker300 regions
20:24.40starseekeradjusts drawing routine to have a hope of eing it up
20:26.02brlcadawesome, black widow isn't 'too' shabby
20:26.35brlcadmassive convergence failure reporting
20:26.52starseekerer, yeah - sorry about that
20:26.57starseekerdebugging output
20:27.14brlcadtakes a pic
20:28.02starseekerit very probably shouldn't be attempting to converge in most of those cases - the limit that restricts the newton converence to a domain where it "should" work is stupid simple right now
20:29.17brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/nurbs5.png
20:29.47brlcadthat top cap is pretty interesting
20:29.48starseekerhah - not too bad
20:30.04brlcadprobably just an even/odd count problem
20:31.52brlcadi'm really happy to see the db encoding isn't a problem
20:32.23starseekerhow long did it take it to draw that wireframe?
20:32.53brlcadbreaking up the 3dm into per-object objects is minimal overhead, maybe 10%
20:32.56starseeker's wireframe draw was a lot slower than the raytrace - some work to do there
20:32.59brlcadwireframe was instant
20:33.07starseekerhuh - odd
20:33.16starseekercan you do me a favor and try the PeeWee model?
20:33.25brlcadgettin' there
20:33.27brlcadgoing down the list
20:33.47starseekerah :-)
20:34.39brlcadoof, Cox Olympic aborts rt :)
20:35.03brlcadopennurbs_curve.cpp:3172: failed assertion `false'
20:35.22brlcadseemed to import clean at least
20:36.45brlcadah, same on Cylinder 020
20:39.17brlcadpeewee wireframe is also instant
20:39.29brlcadmaybe you have your surface plotter enabled
20:41.17brlcadpeewee crashes (not via assertion)
20:41.44brlcadah, wait, there is an assertion .. just delayed logging
20:43.22brlcadoh, shoot.. wrong mged -- screw those last results
20:44.54CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34679 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Bringing up the menu shouldn't toggle (i.e. expand/collapse) the tree.
20:51.20brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/nurbs6.png  <- cox olympic
20:52.00brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/nurbs7.png  <- cylinder 020 (ouch)
20:54.30indianlarrylooks to be an GetNextDiscontinuity in the ON_Curve that will walk down and give discontinuities for derivative,tangent and curvature
20:54.42indianlarrycould it be that easy
20:54.44brlcadpeewee wireframe does suck now
20:55.01starseekeryeah, was afraid of that
20:55.17starseekerindianlarry: oo, that would be awesome
20:55.39starseekerjust check if it is in the bounding box - if it is, split the box at that y value
20:55.54starseekeror domain value rather
20:56.21indianlarryit will actually give you the curve param point which is what i walk down so break at each discont
20:56.44indianlarryhope it works
20:58.45brlcadstarseeker: about 4min to e, fwiw
20:58.52brlcadrender is zippy
20:59.08``Erikheh, like, cox .049 black widow? I have a couple of those at home O.o
20:59.20``Erikand I think I might have a cox peewee somewhere
20:59.20brlcadnot many warnings spewed either, but pretty wrong
21:00.00indianlarryi base the trim error on the length of the curve in uv and the ends of cylinder are a long linear trims
21:00.07brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/nurbs8.png  <- pee wee
21:01.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34680 10/brlcad/trunk/ (22 files in 6 dirs): Eliminate libtienet.
21:03.19brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/nurbs9.png  <- nice!
21:04.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34681 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h: More Newton iterator tweaking.
21:08.39starseekerbrlcad: yeah, that's my iterative wireframe routine crapping out
21:09.19starseekeralmost wonder if the way to go is to make an "edge tree" routine and use that...
21:09.43brlcadlast one, tee dee, http://brlcad.org/tmp/nurbs10.png
21:10.56brlcadgeometry with .g's uploaded for convenience  (regions fixed to not have spaces so they e up)
21:11.09starseekerbrlcad: cool, thanks!
21:11.17brlcadstarseeker: curious, what's it iterating on?
21:11.31brlcadbecause it didn't look any different than in .4
21:11.41brlcadwhich was instant
21:11.43starseekeryeah, it wouldn't
21:11.54starseekershape1 does look different
21:12.12starseekerhave you tried that one in .4 vs trunk lately?
21:13.23starseekerit's making sure the wireframe is "smooth" to within some multiple of the tolerance
21:13.31starseekerI'm sure it's not very intelligent about it
21:14.08brlcadI just did, that was all the reporting about them failing to render
21:15.08brlcadthe difference in wireframes was probably there, but it certainly wasn't drastic enough to notice (on any of them)
21:15.34starseekeryeah, shape is kinda a worst case wireframe
21:16.01starseekerif it's a big model compared to tolerance, the routine does a lotta work for ziltch
21:16.31starseekerhmm, that might be an option, base it on some fraction of the smallest bounding box dimension...
21:19.05CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34682 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Eliminate libtienet.
21:21.15brlcadit's the same problem the other primitives have
21:22.00brlcadthey need to be dynamic to model size and view size, levels of detail
21:22.46brlcadwhich for the most part can all be done with view size, but there are some absolute model/computation limits that it should enforce
21:33.50brlcad``Erik: looks like that does a hell of a lot more that just eliminate libtienet...
21:35.15``Erikthere might be a little more, but big chunks were moved out of libtienet into their application dir
21:35.19brlcadand could ya make the commit any bigger? jeez.
21:35.24``Erikhehehe
21:35.26``Eriksvn mv, dude
21:35.29brlcadbob's rubbing off on you
21:35.41brlcadand yeah, that sounds so wrong :)
21:37.03``Erik(and I'm just getting warmed up on the horrors, mebbe I'll get to commit and run like hell for my car)
21:37.04starseekerbrlcad: correct me if I'm wrong, but the primitive plotting routines don't currently know anything about the view, do they?
21:37.28brlcadstarseeker: none at all, that's why it's not been simple to fix
21:37.34starseekerah
21:37.39starseekerok, very good
21:37.39brlcadrequires a functab change which affects all prims
21:37.55brlcadI was going to get to it *after* all of the functab refactoring
21:38.14brlcadstill have a bit of work under way to finish up there
21:38.21starseekeryeah, that's what I thought - fairly intrusive change
21:38.45brlcadgsi had a quick hack that we could adopt, but it really was a big ugly for my taste
21:39.03starseekernods
21:39.08brlcadthey implemented a hi/lo command that would toggle wireframe detail
21:39.19starseekerThat's worth doing right, imho
21:39.44brlcadprimitves were modified to do what they do now and an even higher-res smooth version
21:39.51starseekermight also help with the "use arcs as well as lines" approach?
21:40.10brlcadthe primitives shouldn't be tessellating themselves
21:40.17starseekernods
21:40.24``Erikhm, 3 arcs instead of 48 lines, that'd be nifty
21:40.40brlcadinstead of returning render segments, they should return their edges/contours/surfaces -- e.g. the brep form
21:41.03brlcadfrom the brep form, tessellate as needed based on view size
21:41.52brlcadthey could still self plot, but even then they could return as ``Erik mentioned -- arcs/curves lines points, etc
21:42.07brlcadbasically a crude brep form
21:44.08``Erikruns for his car
21:44.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34683 10/brlcad/trunk/ (13 files in 11 dirs): flatten ADRT build.
21:46.16``Erikyeah, I spoze that's 'nuff breakage for one afternoon :D
21:53.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34684 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: Hack around a performance issue with the adaptive sampling drawing for NURBS - this isn't a final solution but should avoid the killer performance zones.
21:55.34starseekerbrlcad: does that help any?
21:58.18brlcadyes
21:58.30brlcadabout .5s on peewee
22:00.08starseekerthat preserves the shape1 drawing and attempts to "recognize" when it needs to be less fine
22:00.25starseekerwill still have bad areas of course, but might be a reasonable compromise for now
22:01.10brlcadcool
22:03.48starseekerthe trick is essentially to recognize that if we have to subdivide beyond some number N times, we have an edge describing a large length compared to the tolerance and the better course is to hope that big steps are "smooth"
22:04.47starseekerif indianlarry's singularity trick could be applied to edges we might look for derivative changes as another tool, but it can wait until a "proper" solution is available
22:04.58starseeker(especially given it's a universal primitive problem at the moment)
22:09.32starseekerindianlarry: so far what I'm seeing suggests that the linear approximation is a Really Good approximation for trimming - with that zoom in showing sawtooth it may be that at default resolutions shape1 isn't triggering a need for the exact curve solutions
22:14.30brlcadnod
22:41.47``Eriklooks for his engines
22:53.11``Erikhm, can't find 'em :/ must still be at my parents place
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02:05.43*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
02:24.35CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34685 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/bot_condense.c: condense the condenser. variety of macro patterns found.
02:25.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34686 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: say the name of the object we couldn't add, but don't call it an error
02:29.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34687 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: result message consistency
02:32.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34688 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: missed a couple punctuation consistencies
02:45.05CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34689 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/bot_decimate.c: condense the decimator
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02:47.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34690 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/bot_decimate.c: comment about the one uncertainty, mark for review down the road.
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22:09.14madantbroken build ?
22:09.27breedenreally?
22:11.59madant./adrt.h:146: error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before ‘uint8_t’
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22:21.00jdolinerwhat do I need to do to not get a shell script when I compile code in src/proc-db?
22:29.31jdolinerbrlcad
22:36.34madantjdoliner ? for debugging ?
22:36.42jdolineryeah
22:36.52jdolineri can't use gdb on it :(
22:37.50madantwell u can always remove the binary from no_install in the make file .. and do make install and debug ? or better just type the long compile line ;)
22:38.21madanti mean run the build command manually
22:38.41madantmaybe there is a more elegant solution in brlcad's hands though
22:39.40madantand jdoliner , isn't the build broken ?
22:39.58jdolineris it?
22:40.04jdolinerthat might be part of my problem
22:40.12jdolinerwhen did the build get broken?
22:43.13madant34690 is not working for me. but i guess the problem is in the adrt.h changes from earlier .. erik ?
22:44.29jdolineryeah fortunately for me my part of the ship is still floating
22:44.44jdolinerwhat is this long compile command you speak of
22:44.54jdolinerI've never seen gcc result in a shell script
22:45.04jdolinerso I don't really know what I'm looking to remove
22:45.28madanter.. i mean the build line from the make file ? i mean cc -I blah blah -L etc. etc.
22:50.12jdolinermaybe I'm misunderstanding, but that seems to just get me the same shell script
22:51.36madantwell you need to edit that line to output into a binary
22:51.48madantand the adrt.h seems to be just a matter of including stdint.h
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22:57.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34691 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/adrt.h: including stdint.h for unbreaking build in linux
23:58.52madantjdoliner: did u manage to get the binaries ?
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00:04.55jdolinerno i still haven't
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02:47.47madantstares at "Elapsed compilation time: 3 hours, 52 minutes, 21 seconds" and sighs :)
02:48.28Ralithheh
02:48.43Ralithgood thing make doesn't rebuild needlessly
03:00.50madantundoubtedly :)
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14:13.39starseekerindianlarry: Are you planning to add a check in CurveTree::subdivideCurve for the case where the top and bottom tangents are different but depth = maxdepth + 1?  that seems to me to be the time/place to ensure the split is on the vertical tangent, if it needs doing...
14:15.50starseekerI was thinking a binary iteration might work there - if max and min have different tangents, calculate the tangent at the midpont between min and max - if that slope isn't infinite, select the mid point and whichever of min and max has the opposite slope sign to the midpoint as your new min/max pair - repeat until the midpoint slope satisfies ON_NearZero
14:16.25starseekeror rather, the inverse of the midpoint slope satisfies it
14:18.19starseekerthen the final two subdivides will use that mid point as their min/max respectively, ensuring good behavior for m_XIncreasing testing
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15:10.25starseekerindianlarry: actually, I guess the depth check makes less sense - it should be after the routine is ready to declare a leaf node - then check the tangent behaviors
15:11.43brlcad~botmail for jdoliner ./libtool --mode=execute gdb --args src/proc-db/whatever my args here
15:32.11madanthmm.. libtool :)
15:33.01brlcadyeah, you have to run through the libtool script, it'll expand any libtool binaries into the real binary with the LD_PATHs setup correctly
15:33.56brlcadcan run it from anywhere too, ~/brlcad-whatever/libtool --mode=execute gdb --args ../../../../src/other/proc-db/breplicator asdfhadsf adsf
15:38.39madantoh damn.. that's quite useful .. :)
15:39.38madantbrlcad: where is elena's more hosted right now ?
15:39.52madanti mean more-to-be-renamed :)
15:39.57brlcadit's on brlcad.org
15:40.08brlcadsame web root, subdir more
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17:27.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34692 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (11 files): collapse the rest of the bot_* commands where there were GED macro patterns. 164->54 .. and now 10% complete with all ged commands (oof!).
17:29.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34693 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/: svn properties change
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18:11.09indianlarrystarseeker: here's what I've done so far
18:11.10indianlarrystarseeker: i decided it made sense to walk down the knots
18:11.10indianlarrystarseeker: to limit where i had to search for tangent issues
18:11.10indianlarrystarseeker: http://brlcad.org/tmp/ps1.png
18:11.10indianlarrystarseeker: GREEN - no issue move on
18:11.12indianlarrystarseeker: MAGENTA - find horz crossing
18:11.15indianlarrystarseeker: YELLOW - find vert crossing
18:11.17indianlarrystarseeker: BLUE - has 2horz or 2 vert crossings
18:11.20indianlarrystarseeker: RED - has two crossings one horz and one vertical
18:11.22indianlarrystarseeker: for BLUE and RED simple subdivide until have single cases
18:11.25indianlarrystarseeker: http://brlcad.org/tmp/ps2.png
18:11.27indianlarrystarseeker: then iterate down on the horz and vert cases
18:11.29indianlarrystarseeker: http://brlcad.org/tmp/ps3.png
18:11.32indianlarrystarseeker: need to get you to help me build another test case in rhino(?)
18:11.35indianlarrystarseeker: where we have some tangent discontinuities(knot multiplicity)
18:11.37indianlarrystarseeker: with sharp corners (here we just use open nurbs getdiscontinities()
18:11.40indianlarrystarseeker: now need to work this back into the bounding box algorithm
18:11.42indianlarrystarseeker: inlaws are on their way so not sure how much more i'll get done till later
18:11.45indianlarrybrlcad: hope it's okay to upload those images?
18:14.09brlcadindianlarry: absolutely
18:14.16brlcadawesome pictures too :)
18:14.29brlcadcan utilize ~/public_html too for ~indianlarray/ urls
18:14.53indianlarrybrlcad: thanks
18:26.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34694 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/ (56 files in 4 dirs): CCK module (initial commit).
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18:36.18elenahi
18:36.25brlcadhi elena
18:36.55elenahow was your weekend?
18:37.33brlcadstill going on :)
18:38.08Axman6oh damn, mine isn't >_<
18:38.26elena:)
18:39.31brlcadhas a cookout to go to in a couple hours, should be fun, beautiful day
18:40.55elenabtw, I meant to ask you about recaptcha. I forgot :(
18:40.56brlcadwhat about it?
18:40.56elenais the problem with it that it displays the math instead of recaptcha.
18:40.56brlcadno
18:40.56elenathen?
18:40.56brlcadthe problem is that the contact form doesn't even ask the recaptcha
18:40.57brlcadjust the contact form
18:40.58elenaaaa.
18:41.25elenabut there's no captcha point for contact.
18:42.13elenai'll look.
18:42.42brlcadtherein would be the problem, but that doesn't make sense to not have the ability to have it captcha given it's a submission point
18:43.03elenayes. you're right.
18:43.56brlcadyou maybe nailed the issue, though, being no captcha point
18:44.16brlcadso someway to add that as a captcha point perhaps, or manually force one on that page
18:44.17elenajt should be an option somewhere thought.
18:44.23brlcadit's several spams a day :)
18:44.23elenai'll check the module version.
18:44.37brlcadthe site is a bit dated now, several out of date
18:44.42elenai'll fix it today.
18:44.45brlcadbut haven't had time to do the update
18:44.53brlcadcool
18:44.53elenamay I do it?
18:44.58brlcadabsolutely!
18:45.02elenathank you.
18:45.11brlcadheh
18:45.28brlcad"may I help make it better?" .. uh, no, sorry, I want it to keep sucking :)
18:45.40elena:)
18:45.52elenai was more concerned with breaking it :D
18:46.09brlcadnah, it's a WIP
18:46.55elenaok. more learning experience for me :)
18:46.59brlcadcould as well slap a big 'BETA' sticker on the website, if it wouldn't be thought to apply to the code
18:47.40elenai'm thinking maybe we can share the code base for d and more
18:47.58elenait will be easier to update them.
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18:48.21brlcadpossibly, but I wouldn't be too worried about them sharing just so the repository could be more readily moved to a separate host if needed
18:48.22elenai'll look into this.
18:48.34elenaaha.
18:48.37elenaok.
18:48.51brlcadonce the repository starts getting a lot of modules, it's going to require a lot more disks than the current server has
18:48.59brlcad(more than the new replacement server will have even)
18:49.19elenamodules => models?
18:49.27brlcadyes, sorry :)
18:49.33elenaok.
18:49.59brlcadanticipate it'll quickly be up into hundreds of GB
18:50.01elenayes. you mentioned the large site models.
18:50.13brlcadpossibly more
18:52.09brlcadif a single model is 100MB with 10 different export versions (g, dxf, step, 3dm, iges, stl, x3d, ...) along with rendered views and resource files, that'd be easily 1GB of data
18:52.45brlcadexpect there to be a whole range of models from just a few KB to upwards of a GB per model
18:53.46brlcadprobably a simple falloff curve of probability
19:55.58*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.201.243)
20:27.50*** join/#brlcad elena (n=elena@89.136.118.141)
21:18.53*** join/#brlcad Soul_keeper (i=1000@wsip-70-166-30-4.sd.sd.cox.net)
21:19.11Soul_keeperwhat's the name of the main brlcad binary after installation ?
21:20.17Soul_keepermged ?
21:20.37elenathat's the editor.
21:20.41elenayou can use it.
21:20.48Soul_keeperok thanks
21:20.49elenait will open two windows.
21:21.03elenaone for commands, one for viewing.
21:28.45Soul_keeperI can see this is a life's journey to learn :(
21:28.54*** part/#brlcad Soul_keeper (i=1000@wsip-70-166-30-4.sd.sd.cox.net)
21:29.57elenanot that hard to begin.
21:30.11elenabut it will take time to master.
21:30.26elenathere's a nice tutorial on the site.
21:47.53elenabrlcad: site code is updated; I did some cleanup, too. recaptcha on contact works with the new module.
22:59.33starseekerindianlarry: that's seriously cool :-)
23:03.03starseekerwinces - sorry elena, I keep missing you
23:04.32Ralithbrlcad: just what sort of model is that complex O.o
23:47.14starseekerRalith: well, the openmoko phone case is on the order of 30 megs, IIRC
23:47.35starseekernow, scale that up to something the size of a vehicle or building ;-)
23:48.16Ralithor an aircraft, I suppose
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090608

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090608

00:01.10starseekeris drooling to see if the Qt+OGRE thing works :-)
00:11.33Ralithis desperately paperwriting
03:20.21brlcad~elena++
03:23.27brlcadawesome, not only updated the main code, but all the modules too
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04:29.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03122.49.210.50 07http://brlcad.org * r1464 10/wiki/Editthispage: New page: [http://www.bestessays.co.uk essays]
04:30.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03122.49.210.50 07http://brlcad.org * r1465 10/wiki/Editthispage: Removing all content from page
05:52.16*** join/#brlcad elena (n=elena@89.136.118.141)
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08:47.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/delete: deleted "[[Editthispage]]": content before blanking was: '[http://www.xxxxxx.co.uk essays]'
08:48.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/delete: restored "[[Editthispage]]": 2 revision(s) restored
08:49.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1466 10/wiki/Editthispage: Undo revision 1465 by [[Special:Contributions/122.49.210.50|122.49.210.50]] ([[User talk:122.49.210.50|Talk]])
08:49.38CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/delete: deleted "[[Editthispage]]": content was: '[http://www.xxxxxxxxxx.co.uk essays]'
08:50.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1467 10/wiki/Editthispage: testing.
08:50.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/delete: deleted "[[Editthispage]]": content was: 'testing.' (and the only contributor was '[[Special:Contributions/Sean|Sean]]')
10:36.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34695 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/bot_face_fuse.c: typo in macro name
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11:16.31[1]d-lomornin all.
11:26.24Raliththat was short
11:27.11starseekerindianlarry: how went it with the inlaws?
11:28.21starseekergood times or a long day? ;-P
11:35.56d-loRalith: Was checking out an OS IRC client.  Gonna stick with ssh for now :)
12:00.02indianlarrystarseeker: not too bad, i just self relegate outside out of the way, got most of the tangent check in, getting current build tree here up to date
12:18.44*** join/#brlcad docelic_ (n=docelic@78.134.207.86)
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14:12.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34696 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): snapshot nurbs updates for testing
14:57.34``Eriknifty, clean buidl
15:05.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34697 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (clone.c comb.c comb_std.c copy.c copyeval.c): more pattern collapsing to GED macros
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16:57.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34698 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (opennurbs_ext.cpp primitives/brep/brep.cpp): current NURB rt code snapshot for starseeker to test
17:23.26brlcadmade it all the way in only to turn around after realizing he was badgeless..
17:30.59starseekeroo, that sucks :-/
17:33.45brlcadyep
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18:17.15indianlarry``Erik: you there buddy?
18:18.00indianlarry``Erik: battery pickup man is here are the old batteries the ones on the floor unboxed?
18:18.59brlcadplays the music to jeopardy
18:20.16brlcadindianlarry: he is only logged in from tyr so unless he's sitting behind you, he's probably not going to answer soon
18:21.04indianlarrybrlcad: thanks guess i'll tell pickup man to wait
18:21.45jdolinerindianlarry you're here
18:21.51jdolinerhi
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18:34.20brlcadhowdy jdoliner
18:42.13jdolinerhow are you guys?
18:48.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34699 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/Makefile.am: g-adrt.c is still over in src/conv
18:48.28brlcadgoing pretty good, how about yourself?
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18:51.21jdolinernot bad
18:51.26jdolinerI only have 1 exam left
18:51.34jdolinerand it's a pretty easy one
18:52.08jdolineralso I got your message about how to work the debugger on the bash script
18:52.11jdolinerthanks :)
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21:30.19starseekerindianlarry: for some reason, openbook doesn't prep at all - hangs on first surface
21:34.43starseekerlooks like it's looping in the CurveTree build
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090609

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090609

00:38.29*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1178015723.dsl.bell.ca)
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01:14.27starseekerblinks
01:14.28starseekererm.
01:14.37starseekernow it's segfaulting on shape1 too
01:14.41starseekerhmmmm.....
01:15.45starseekeroh wait...
01:17.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34700 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/Makefile.am: include slave/g-adrt.c in the dist
01:20.13starseekercleans out crap he stuffed in over the weekend and rebuilds
01:28.30starseekerindianlarry: for a simpler failure case than shape1, the pipe example also failes to prep on face 2
01:35.27starseekerblinks at the overlay plot - odd
01:36.05starseekerindianlarry: what do the light blue lines signify?
01:39.54starseekerhttp://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/openbook_uvplot_odd.png
02:04.15starseekeris assuming those lines shouldn't be living somewhere other than the uv plane...
02:37.05*** join/#brlcad madant (n=d@117.196.133.130)
02:52.00*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1178015723.dsl.bell.ca)
03:37.09starseekergrowls at the trimming
03:37.25starseekercan figure this out, really he can...
03:44.52*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1178015723.dsl.bell.ca)
03:55.42starseekerindianlarry: I'm a little surprised the depth limits aren't kicking in... wonder what the path is that's avoiding that...
04:23.13*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1178015723.dsl.bell.ca)
05:56.48*** join/#brlcad Mouette (n=chatzill@fw1.phys.sinica.edu.tw)
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06:22.30*** part/#brlcad winix (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1178015723.dsl.bell.ca)
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10:18.08*** join/#brlcad mike111 (n=mike@cadil21.kaist.ac.kr)
10:18.23mike111hi all
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12:01.09*** part/#brlcad saltan (n=lievensa@81.83.2.132)
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12:45.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34701 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/CMakeLists.txt: new version of CMake (2.6.4) -- new animosity
12:48.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34702 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcMathGrammar.h pcMathVM.h): Completing Expression Grammar : Stage 2/4
13:13.15``Erikfunky, my IP changed
13:35.10*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-135.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
14:43.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34703 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libpc/pc_constraints.c mged/dozoom.c rt/viewarea.c): use old C style comments in C files.
16:25.46*** join/#brlcad rincon (n=alvaro@201.243.79.197)
16:28.14rinconhow do i make a line in 2d in brlcad?
16:35.36starseekeruh - you can use the sketch primitive for that - what do you need the line for?
16:37.33rinconjust to learn
16:43.33starseekerprobably the better place to start is with making geometric primitives
16:46.45*** part/#brlcad rincon (n=alvaro@201.243.79.197)
17:19.14*** join/#brlcad madant (n=d@117.196.132.38)
17:26.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34704 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcMathGrammar.h: finishing Math Expression grammar defintion 3/4
18:42.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03128.63.32.34 07http://brlcad.org * r1468 10/wiki/Main_Page: /* Tutorials */
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20:10.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03IRPGuardian 07http://brlcad.org * r1469 10/wiki/Distributive_Rendering: How to do Distributed Rendering
20:13.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03IRPGuardian 07http://brlcad.org * r1470 10/wiki/Distributive_Rendering: /* Distributed Rendering */
20:30.33*** join/#brlcad andax (n=andax__@d213-102-41-188.cust.tele2.ch)
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20:58.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03IRPGuardian 07http://brlcad.org * r1471 10/wiki/Distributive_Rendering: /* Advanced Commands */
21:00.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03IRPGuardian 07http://brlcad.org * r1472 10/wiki/Distributive_Rendering: /* Advanced Commands */
21:58.12Ralithyay, docs!
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090610

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090610

01:37.35*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-98-227-157-38.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
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03:06.31*** join/#brlcad tomane (n=tomane@d206-75-233-96.abhsia.telus.net)
03:06.54tomanehello people, does anyone work with salome-meca?
03:45.36brlcadtomane: undoubtedly some people do, but here isn't the place to ask :)
03:46.49brlcadmight as well go to a kde channel and ask if anyone is familiar with gnome-terminal
03:57.54brlcadhits the road
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06:13.43*** join/#brlcad elena (n=elena@92.86.0.28)
06:36.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34705 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/: svn:ignore set to ignore eclipse's .cache folder
06:39.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34706 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/views/ (42 files in 3 dirs): views initial commit.
06:43.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34707 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/token/ (20 files in 2 dirs): token module initial commit.
06:46.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34708 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/pathauto/ (29 files in 3 dirs): pathauto module initial commit (5.x-2.3).
07:13.20*** join/#brlcad _clock_ (n=_sushi_@84-72-91-14.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:13.25madanthmm http://gmarceau.qc.ca/blog/2009/05/speed-size-and-dependability-of.html
07:19.14madantand i have never used Clean ..
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13:06.07starseekerah, how to spot a physics nerd - with the release of Pixar's "Up", the comment was "now I'm waiting for the movies Charm and Strange"
13:06.34starseekerwould love to see Pixar release a movie called "Strange"
13:09.53madantstarseeker: I loved the movie .. even without the quark notes :P
13:11.36madantesecially the first 10 minutes or so.. where their life is compressed into like 3 or 4 minutes ;)
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15:54.02*** join/#brlcad elena (n=elena@89.136.118.141)
15:54.19elenahi
16:15.14madanthowdy elena
16:15.26madantthings going good at more ? :)
16:15.31elenahi.
16:15.38elenayes.
16:15.46elenait's shaping up.
16:15.55elenahow's your project?
16:16.43madantjust getting started :)
16:16.59elenawhat is it about?
16:17.03madanttoo many computers died on me :(
16:17.10elenasorry, I knew, but i forgot.
16:17.30madantlibpc -  constraints for brl-cad :)
16:17.32elenai just had my ethernet connector die on me, too.
16:17.49madantwhere are you currently ?
16:17.50elenait worked perfect until noon, and now, nothing :(
16:18.02elenahome :D
16:18.05elenaRomania
16:18.06madanti mean what do you study etc. :)
16:18.29elenaphd in artificial intelligence
16:18.34elenayou?
16:18.35madanti finished my major in architecture .. going to join for a post graduate program in management
16:18.53madantPhD in AI sounds scary :)
16:18.54elenawow, nice mix.
16:19.05elenayes. it sound scary to me, too.
16:19.08elena:)
16:19.19madantmaybe you would be the inventor of skynet
16:19.26elena:)
16:19.41madantthinks terminator salvation was pathetic
16:19.48elenaafter i finish this gsoc.
16:20.01elenadidn't see it.
16:20.05madantor maybe more becomes sentient somehow..
16:20.50madantelena, i thought you were studying in US.
16:20.50elenalol
16:20.57elenano.
16:21.08elenaare you in us?
16:21.16madantnope. India
16:21.28madantyou worked with cscs ?
16:21.29elenai have some friends in india.
16:21.32elenaby email.
16:21.35madanthehe..
16:21.36elenayes.
16:22.03madanti had worked with riolo.. i mean it was not i-spoc related..
16:22.13madantdid u work on i-spoc ?
16:22.30madantsmall world :)
16:22.37elenayes. i recently prepared some updates for last year project, but didn't have time to upload.
16:23.04elenayes. it's a gsoc world.
16:23.09*** join/#brlcad Mouette (n=chatzill@fw1.phys.sinica.edu.tw)
16:23.38madantam sure you must have met all the others.. i mean mafm, pacman87, andrecastelo
16:24.08elenamaybe we chated, i don't recall.
16:24.18elenaexcept for pacman. i remember him.
16:24.33madanthe is a pretty unforgettably resourceful person ;)
16:25.02madantwill now have a HUGE dinner
16:25.18mafmis a pretty regretably and busiful person
16:26.15mafmI don't think we've chatted, nope
16:26.29elenahi, then.
16:26.33mafmI've been out during last week and pretty much afk when connected
16:26.34mafmhi :)
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17:56.37brlcadwaves
17:57.03elenawaves back
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18:17.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03128.63.32.34 07http://brlcad.org * r1473 10/wiki/Main_Page: /* Tutorials */
18:21.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03IRPGuardian 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/move: [[Distributive Rendering]] moved to [[Distributed Rendering]]: Typo in name
18:21.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03IRPGuardian 07http://brlcad.org * r1476 10/wiki/Main_Page: /* Tutorials */
18:53.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03IRPGuardian 07http://brlcad.org * r1477 10/wiki/Cutting_and_Pasting_PIX_files: pixcut and pixpaste
19:05.23elenastarseeker or brlcad, are you around?
19:45.10``Eriko.O
20:06.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34709 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (opennurbs_ext.cpp primitives/brep/brep.cpp):
20:06.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: testing four corner newton iterate, should only be need for high obliq
20:06.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: but currently enabled for debugging so slows raytrace down by atleast 4x ;^)
20:08.28*** join/#brlcad andax (n=andax__@d213-102-40-245.cust.tele2.ch)
20:15.29starseekerelena: back, what's up?
20:15.37elenahi.
20:15.42starseekerhowdy :-)
20:16.02elenai worked these days in the licensing issue of the models.
20:16.19starseekerah.  You mean how to license them?
20:16.19elenai'm not sure how is that suppose to look like.
20:16.25elenayes.
20:16.35elenawill we have multiple licenses
20:16.48elenaand allow user to pick one when submitting.
20:16.50elena?
20:17.14starseekerOh, I get it.  Yes, that's probably the approach.  
20:17.25elenaand are these licenses like GPL ?
20:17.33elenaor some special licenses?
20:17.43starseekerThe two best known open models use creative commons style licenses
20:17.53starseekerI think that makes a fair bit of sense, as a starting point
20:18.11elenaok. :)
20:18.18elenathen I'm on the right track.
20:18.30elenathank you.
20:18.33starseekernp :-)
21:02.48*** join/#brlcad andax (n=andax__@d213-102-41-202.cust.tele2.ch)
22:43.05Ralithsyncs
22:53.02brlcadwoot
22:53.06``ErikO.o
22:54.30``Erikponders opencl vs invidia cg
23:28.55Ralithdear god
23:29.09starseekerhmm?
23:29.11Raliththe RBGui includes in Application.cxx take up 34 lines :|
23:29.16starseekerah :-)
23:29.42starseekerheh - we'll see what Qt takes up :-P
23:31.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34710 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: Add debugging routines to draw the trimming curves in 3d space - normally (but not always) these will correspond to edges, so comment out to have around for debugging if needed.
23:33.17Ralithooh handy!
23:33.25Ralithcmake (at least on my system) ships with a Qt configure script.
23:39.11Ralithwonders why svn ci is taking so long
23:44.25Ralithoookay, not responding to ^C
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090611

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090611

00:13.52Ralith<3 flyspell-prog-mode
00:15.14starseekerindianlarry: here's an odd thing - the odd hits in that vertical line on the right of the image seem to be due to a bounding box problem of some sort
00:15.45starseekersetting ae to 270 0 0
00:15.48Ralithtries svn again
00:15.51Ralithyay!
00:15.57starseekeryou see a vertical line all the way up and down the object
00:16.13CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34711 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CMakeLists.txt: Added Qt4 + OpenGL to dependencies cmake is aware of
00:16.44starseekerif I've got this right, gdb reports five child leaf nodes.  All five return hits
00:18.34starseekerof course, it might be that we need to return two hits somewhere and aren't...
00:22.50CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34712 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcMathGrammar.h pcMathLF.h): Math expression grammer defined (4/4) . lazy function wrapper implementation of address_of
00:27.52``Eriksvn traps sigterm to try to 'clean up' gracefully
00:28.12``Erikif you -9 it, you might need to use "svn clean"
00:30.27Raliththanks for the notice
00:30.32Ralithseemed to ci cleanly, but I'll be sure
00:31.09``Erikit'll bitch if it needs it :)
00:31.15Ralithokay then
00:31.48Ralithoh cleanup?
00:31.50Ralithyeah I had to do that
00:32.45starseekerhmm - weird
00:33.04``Erikyes, you are quite weird, cliff :D
00:33.07``Erik*duck*
00:33.08starseekerthe problem area is definitely grazing on a trimming curve...
00:33.21starseekerand proud of it, too!
00:33.33Ralithhm, cmake screwed up the linking :/
00:36.01Ralithasks #cmake
00:40.55Ralithidea!
00:43.22Ralith...weird
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00:43.42Raliththere's a /lib/rt-2.9.so on my system
00:43.44Ralithwonder what that is.
00:43.48Ralithlibrt-2.9.so*
00:46.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34713 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CMakeLists.txt: Fixed Qt linking
00:48.55starseekerah, so that's it - utah_newton_4corner returns one hit rather than two, which it should be returning two or zero
00:49.30starseekeror rather, utah_brep_intersect_test is
00:52.04starseekeryeah, it's utah_newton_4corner
00:54.28starseekerwonders if we should multiply the u or v parameter of ray and uv space/curves by a factor so the numbers are less small...
00:54.31starseekerhmm...
01:13.33Ralithoh wow
01:13.40Ralithwhen did sf.net completely redo their layout
01:24.22madantRalith: didn't you get the mail :)
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01:30.56starseekerindianlarry: if it helps any, here are two specific cases that are provoking errors - the first one is that long vertical miss due to getting one hit point when two are needed:
01:31.06starseekerOrigin (x y z) = (-3.21022700 -49.92187372 6.84440400)
01:31.09``Eriksome leenewxes have a librt as an interface to real-time facilities
01:31.18starseekerDirection (x y z) = (0.00000000 1.00000000 0.00000000)
01:31.33starseekersecond one is a trimming curve related snaffu:
01:31.43starseekerxyz -1.296691 -0.623331 -0.940507
01:31.50starseekerdir -0.7424 -0.5198 -0.4226
01:32.07starseeker(should turn on backout for both of these:  backout 1)
01:32.59starseekerif I'm not mistaken, on the second one it's reporting four hit points but the very first one is getting trimmed away - when I look at the uv values this makes sense so I'm not quite sure what's going on there
01:33.35starseekerit's only very close to the trimming curves that this happens
01:34.21starseekerwhen I plotted the trimming curves over the edges I didn't see any obvious issue where trimming curves were mapping into different lines than the edges were
01:49.22starseekerif I had to guess, it's something to do with not getting a hit point in the box on the surface above where this trimmed hit was reported
01:56.04starseekerindianlarry: is there a possibility that when iterating to a solution very close to the edge of a bounding box, the haulting process is too aggressive?  I.e., perhaps it should be "if it goes outside and doesn't attempt to come back in on the next iteration?"
01:56.52starseekerI have a feeling that could be what's going on here, since the trimmed point passed both the linear AND the curved "closest point" on trimming curve based tests
01:56.58starseekeri.e. it wasn't even "close"
02:04.38starseekeror, alternatly, it could be not getting all the boxes needed...
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02:15.43werneckI'm new to brlcad, I just finished a design, is there any tool to get a 2D print of the blocks, or some CNC output?
02:19.13starseekerno cnc - if you want a line rendering there's rtedge
02:19.47starseekerif you need cnc, you can look for export options into formats that can be used to generate cnc paths
02:20.12starseekerindianlarry: nevermind, allowing iteration outside didn't do anything
02:20.18indianlarrystarseeker: hey just looking over your comments
02:20.43indianlarrystarseeker: i generated some nice images of the black widow
02:21.11starseekercoool :-)
02:22.18indianlarrystarseeker: need to undefine (//#define) the KTANGENTBREAK in opennurbs_ext.cpp
02:23.08indianlarrystarseeker: otherwise locks in prep(looks to not be converging in the bin iter will look at tomorow'
02:24.28werneckstarseeker: ok, thanks
02:24.45indianlarrystarseeker: still thinking about trying to iterate uphile in oppisite direction
02:25.05indianlarrystarseeker: definitely need something better than the four corner approach
02:26.24indianlarrystarseeker: what dotg are you refering to the nurbs_shape1.g ?
02:26.29starseekerI can't help thinking that iterating to a "max" point and using that somehow would help
02:26.33starseekeryes shape1.s
02:26.59indianlarrystarseeker: i'll walk it through the debugger and let you know
02:29.42starseekershould try to dope out a routine to draw the 3d bounding boxes of every leaf that intersects a ray, just so we can be sure we're getting the right leaves to start with...
02:29.53starseekershould also get home before he gets in worse trouble...
02:32.00indianlarrystarseeker: why buy a house when you can buy a cheap cot and stay there
02:32.41starseekerhehe
02:33.21starseekercan think of few ways of achieving SDDSO (Sudden Death Due to Significant Other)
02:33.47starseekerfew better ways rather
02:34.22indianlarrygotta keep the significant other happy
02:34.36indianlarrycatch up with you tomorow
02:34.50starseekersounds good
02:34.55starseekerruns for it
02:43.06brlcadindianlarry: why do you think there's a bed in my office? :)
02:45.09brlcadgood for an emergency early morning crash
02:59.42werneckis there any way to not hide lines in rtedge?
03:26.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34714 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CMakeLists.txt OgreGLWidget.cxx OgreGLWidget.h): Untested Ogre Qt widget
03:26.38Ralithgot cmake and qt's metastuff playing together nicely
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03:34.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34715 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (OgreGLWidget.cxx OgreGLWidget.h): Narrowed include scope, included resource loading, fixed copyright/doc headers
03:39.35Ralithbrlcad: any conventions on exceptions yet?
03:52.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34716 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (OgreGLWidget.cxx OgreGLWidget.h): Added useful destructor, scene setup; moved resource loading into its own function
03:53.13Ralithahh, it's good to be making commits.
04:25.21starseekerposts this link to himself in case it comes in handy... http://tom.cs.byu.edu/~tom/papers/bezclip.pdf
04:32.05starseekerindianlarry: much as I hate to suggest this, what about the following approach:  In the case where we detect that two intersections are a possibility, and current methods fail to identify two different intersection points, temporarily subdivide the leaf bounding square in uv space into 4 subsquares, take the center of each and iterate - if they all leave the boxes, then the other root (if it exists) must be in the remaining subbox with the existing root
04:33.07starseekera bit expensive, but wouldn't it work?
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12:30.44starseekerboots his brain back into gear
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14:05.20brlcad``Erik: can metaballs have per point weights?
14:05.40brlcador are they uniform across a metaballs set
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14:15.30brlcadgoes with the per-point theory
14:24.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34717 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/metaball.c: ws while peeking. huh, looks like this was never finished/implemented.
14:44.27``Erikheh, they combine a per point weight with a per primitive value and let 'em duke it out
14:46.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r34718 10/rt^3/trunk/ (cmake/ cmakemodules/): Refactor in prep for converting rt^3 module's build system to cmake.
15:05.43d-loRalith:  Since you are making Qt an external dependancy (which is good imho), what about making orge an external one also?
15:08.35starseekerd-lo: Problem there is we might need to patch Ogre to get it to work, based on last year (IIRC, anyway)
15:09.16d-lostarseeker: as in a homegrown patch, or a patch from the Ogre devs?
15:15.46starseekerI THINK it was a homegrown patch, but it's been a while
15:16.07starseeker'course, a year might have fixed things on the Ogre side too
15:18.12d-lodo you recall what issue the patch was concerning?
15:18.50starseekernope - I wasn't paying as much attention at that point :-/
15:19.00d-lokk thanks anyways
15:19.06starseekerfirst thing to do is try the latest Ogre though
15:19.20starseekerdoubts we've synced in a while
15:20.19starseekeroh, wait - it's coming back a bit - I think RBgui needed some feature that was either being removed or wasn't working in the "release" version of Ogre at that time
15:20.38starseekerso might be moot for Qt
15:21.44d-lo..which would be good :)
15:21.58d-loogre isnt exactly small :)
15:22.17starseekeragreed
15:22.18d-loone might say... its a bit of a beast.
15:22.29d-loslaps his knee.
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19:24.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34719 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
19:24.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: fixed trim H/V tangent checks, now using curve estimate of trim versus
19:24.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: linear, grew 3D bounding boxes to cover surface curvature extruding box
19:24.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: need to fix correctly
19:42.25Ralithstarseeker, d-lo: Ogre works fine as an external dep; shall I kill it from the repo?
19:43.52starseekerRalith: sure, go for it
19:46.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34720 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/: Dropped Ogre from internal repository, as the official releases should work fine for us.
19:52.04louipctcl/tk next :P
19:52.17starseekeryeah, that's... harder
19:53.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34721 10/rt^3/trunk/ (13 files in 3 dirs): Moved cmake modules into root cmake module directory
19:54.34Ralithafks for another few hours
19:58.02mafmRalith: starseeker: last year brlcad/Sear suggested me (under torture, even if he doesn't admit) to have all dependencies inside
19:58.21mafmsimilar to the rest of libraries in main brl-cad module
19:59.00mafmthat is, I didn't put Ogre there because we needed to have a heavily patched version or anything
20:00.56starseekermafm: really?  huh.  Well, we can always add them in later at need
20:01.35mafmyes well, just noting it
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22:29.01Ralithweird, ohloh doesn't seem to be updating commit stats
22:47.00brlcadthey lag by a few days
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23:44.14``Erikw00t, a/c is fixed O.o
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090612

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090612

00:01.41*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1128564968.dsl.bell.ca)
02:18.51starseekerindianlarry: Idea on handling of the raytracing of NURBS.  Expanding the boxes is killing our performance by forcing more interative solutions of intersected bounding boxes (which are not needed in most cases but are in a few).  What if, for each bounding box leaf we propose to search for intersections in, we see if the xy coordinates of any of the previously found intersection points are within the bounding uv square of the leaf BB about to be consider
02:21.43starseekertaking that one step further, when we build the surface tree we could actually store two trees in parallel, one with the minimal bounding boxes that give good raytrace performance, and one with the BB growth factor turned on.  Then we can raytrace using the default bounding boxes, and for shots that return either an odd hit count or zero intersection boxes we repeat the hierarchy test with that same ray, only this time instructing it to use the grown bb
02:23.29starseekercompare the list of leaves obtained from the grown hierarcy test to the original list - any new boxes, test them for hits.  If hits are found that aren't already in the hit list, add them and resort the list
02:24.12starseekerso in essence, each BBnode in the surface tree would store two sets of bounding box dimensions rather than one - otherwise, it's the same tree build
02:26.31starseekerwe don't even have to walk the surface list twice
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05:49.46Ralithhm, I sent in my tax forms a couple days ago, still hasn't been confirmed as received
05:49.53Ralith:/
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15:38.10starseekerindianlarry: Question:  If we allow uv hit points outside uv boxes, but when performing the trimming test actually find (via a "2d" IntersectHierarchy test, I suppose) the uv box that contains the "out of box" hit point and use that to do the trimming test, would we actually get rid of the jagged edges on the trims while still allowing out of box hits?
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18:54.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34722 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/opennurbs/opennurbs.vcproj: mods to get things building again on windows
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20:47.13indianlarrystarseeker: You still workin
20:47.53indianlarrystarseeker: think i found an easy solution to our box growth issue
20:49.33indianlarrystarseeker: erik also mentioned his ideas about keeping neighbor links for his work that may play into the out of box hits we get
20:51.44starseekerstill here
20:52.00starseekersorry, chatting with Bob about Archer stuff
20:52.05starseekerwhat's the easy solution?
20:52.13``Erikfoiled their productivity mwahahhaa
20:53.02indianlarrystarseeker: think i can grow only those boxes that need it just need to check if the corner normal pass the x,y,z normals
20:53.41indianlarrystarseeker: since we bound be x,y,z min/max those are the only ones that would stick out
20:53.54indianlarrystarseeker: that's why we were seeing patterns
20:54.08indianlarrystarseeker: should actually be easy
20:54.26``Erikfamous last words? :D
20:54.28starseekerso you're saying check the normals at the corners in 3 space and see if they indicate "bad" behavior somehow?
20:54.51indianlarrystarseeker: see id they change quadrants
20:55.02indianlarrystarseeker: octants
20:55.12starseekeroh, hmm
20:55.31starseekerthat might work, actually
20:55.46indianlarrystarseeker: i think we can use the knots to ensure no more then two hits as well
20:55.54starseekercool
20:56.19starseekerthat might make my ideas overkill then...
20:57.11indianlarrystarseeker: if we use knots during initial subdivision may make flatness resolve quicker
20:57.46starseekerponders... yes, that might be true
20:57.51indianlarrystarseeker: then again i've had a few too many already
20:57.59starseekerare you suggesting breaking into quadrants ON the knots?
20:58.43indianlarrystarseeker: check flatness if not flat find median knot closest to center u,v and split there
20:59.09indianlarrystarseeker: looks like openNURBS has a closest knot index function
20:59.21starseekerhmm.  sounds promising
21:00.18indianlarrystarseeker: guit there today?
21:00.31starseekerquiet
21:00.37indianlarrystarseeker: yes aorry
21:00.40starseeker'cept Bob says "get a life!"
21:00.45starseekerindianlarry: for what?
21:01.07starseekerindianlarry: you've been doing and continue to do awesome work!
21:01.17indianlarrystarseeker: for the typing
21:01.26starseekerpfft.  I was trained on slashdot
21:04.06indianlarrystarseeker: i'll try and hit it later but busy weekend (graduation parties to attend)
21:04.33starseekerdon't worry about it - that's way more important!
21:05.01starseekerscowls at the single odd hit report still coming from shape1.s at high res...
21:06.02indianlarrystarseeker: I'll try and put that fuzz check in there, also need to see how they handle intersect closeness between surfaces problem could be there
21:06.25starseekernods - yeah, kinda looks like that
21:06.29starseekerwho's graduating?
21:06.56indianlarrystarseeker: mothers cousins kin way down the line
21:07.14starseekerheh - well, it's a good drink excuse :-)
21:07.31indianlarrystarseeker: that's what i thought
21:07.44indianlarryhave a good weekend all
21:08.05indianlarryis brlcad in the channel
21:08.16starseekeryou too
21:08.20starseekerhaven't seen him today
21:08.39indianlarrycatch up with him later
21:10.20indianlarryneed to make sue GSoC joeDee has commit access to SVN
21:11.24starseekernods :-)
21:11.28starseekeryeah, that helps
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21:12.14starseekerjust in case this helps, xyz 4.315565 -2.942501 15.995774 dir -0.742404 -0.519837 -0.422618 with backout on is the shape1 test case
21:30.54brlcadindianlarry: I can set it but his commits will have to be watched carefully -- his patch indicated he needs more instruction on patches, commits, svn, our HACKING guidelines, style/ws, etc
21:31.47brlcadmight want to have him simply start submitting patches (to the tracker for his work) and iterate with him on the patches until they commit unmodified
21:32.21brlcadshouldn't take more than a day or two to get anyone up to speed
21:33.09indianlarrybrlcad: i'll touch base with him
21:34.02brlcadotherwise he does need to get kicking really soon now or there's no way he'll pass midterms
21:35.32indianlarrybrlcad: looks like he's beeen writing some test code for some simple brep primitive so i think he's starting to get into it
21:36.31indianlarrybrlcad: he emailed me some code to look at and he was re-writing dot,cross product macros and i pointed him at vmath.h
21:37.15indianlarrybrlcad: i know it can be a little hard finding things
21:38.27indianlarrybrlcad: i think he's also finding out that some of the opennurbs functions he needs are limited and sometimes replaced with stubs
21:38.34brlcadindianlarry: yeah, it's completely understandable -- just part of the process for "commit access"
21:38.46indianlarrybrlcad: thanks
21:41.54brlcadhe should work on showing he understands the dev guidelines before getting deep into the code regardless, which covers making patches, frequent commits, not breaking things, what his responsibilities are when he does break something, etc
21:42.08brlcadparticularly for the gsoc kids, it's part of their http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Checklist
21:43.20brlcadindianlarry: did he send you patch files or whole files or snippets?
21:45.11indianlarrybrlcad: just a single file snippet just to look at overall style
21:45.13brlcadeither way, that's the "tendancy to default to private conversations" I mentioned months back -- you shouldn't allow that or at least should respond to their message to the dev list (with a note to keep dev chatter public)
21:45.43brlcadmany students do that, it's natural but really should be nipped in the bud early
21:45.55indianlarrybrlcad: i mentioned that to him i think he need just a little push
21:46.16indianlarrybrlcad: i think he tried to commit some stuff and couldn't
21:46.50indianlarrybrlcad: i'll try and work it out with him
21:47.08brlcadit's multiple issues -- not being able to commit isn't an excuse
21:47.10brlcadhe has to communicate
21:47.40brlcadhe's certainly not said anything here yet has been joining, so it's even worse
21:48.36indianlarrybrlcad: he was the one that had late finals so hopefully he'll start to get involved
21:48.42brlcadnods
21:49.02brlcad~gsoctimeline
21:49.03ibotgsoctimeline is, like, http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline
21:50.31brlcadyeah, three weeks to his midterm evaluation, two or three of the students are going to have to seriously kick it in or they'll have to be dropped
21:50.58brlcadwill have to send a note this weekend, didn't realize that much time had passed already
21:50.58indianlarrybrlcad: i'll mention it to him
21:51.12indianlarrytell me about it
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21:51.49brlcadthey're on a tight schedule and it's supposed to be a full-time job -- that's three weeks of no-show
21:52.21indianlarrybrlcad: acts like he has a gov't job ;^)
21:52.29brlcadheh
21:53.23indianlarryi'm out for a while i'll try to push things along have a good weekend
21:53.29brlcadcya!
21:54.07mafmhi
21:54.10brlcadRalith: nice to see you getting started, lemme know if you have any problems
21:54.13brlcadmafm: howdy!
21:54.19brlcadpacman87: how's it going?.... :)
21:54.57Ralithbrlcad: I shall.
21:55.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34723 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: When an odd nurbs hit point shows up, print out the nirt commands that will fire just that ray (make debugging 'em simpler)
21:56.36brlcadRalith: remember to keep a daily note for any days you work, a single brief sentance suffices -- like a commit message -- to say what you got done
21:57.01Ralithoh, wups
21:57.08Ralithon my wiki page?
21:57.13brlcadroberthl: wow, no longer living in obscurity? :)
21:57.19brlcader, anonymity
21:57.29brlcadyeah, wiki page work
21:57.32brlcad*works
21:57.51brlcador blog or tweets, just someplace convenient (and ideally rss-able)
21:58.22brlcadpacman did a pretty good job last year: http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Pacman87
21:59.00roberthlbrlcad: Yeah, I kind of gave up that when I started being payed to do stuff. :)
21:59.20roberthl(development)
21:59.28brlcadnods
21:59.50mafmtweets are the root of evil, just say no! :P
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22:07.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1478 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Added first log entries
22:15.12``Erikhey, c'mon now, indianlarry, some of us gov't foke are only no-show for 2 weeks :D
22:22.43pacman87it's been rather hectic at my house with relatives visiting for little bro
22:22.46pacman87's graduation
22:23.31pacman87and i got recruited to move my brother in this week
22:23.46pacman87so now there's no more distractions
22:24.28pacman87which place?
22:24.31pacman87the speech?
22:24.54pacman87ww
22:25.24pacman87now everything's back to normal
22:25.29pacman87and i can get back to coding full-time
22:25.50pacman87speaking of which, is there a good sample sketch i can use to test my revolve?
22:26.25pacman87just examples of syntax for the two spline types, carcs, and lsegs
22:36.23brlcadcould try the sketch in http://brlcad.org/tmp/sketch.g
22:36.43brlcadincludes each entity type except the unimplemented nurbs type
22:48.43``Erikpacman87: if you were to draw a half circle, then revolve around a line that touch both ends of that arc like 30 degrees or so, would the resultant geometry be something like an orange slice? am I gettin' the purpose right?
22:50.27pacman87yes
22:50.42pacman87``Erik: ^^
22:51.41*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-98-227-157-38.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
22:52.42jdolinersean, can you explain to me how I should submit code?
22:53.06jdolinerbrlcad?
22:54.42pacman87jdoliner: are you starting new files, or modifying existing ones?
22:55.18jdolinerI started a new file in proc-db
22:55.38jdolinerand I've also modified a file
22:55.38pacman87do you have commit access yet?
22:55.44jdolinerno I don't believe so
22:56.20pacman87go to the brlcad sourceforge site
22:56.27pacman87under 'tracker' click 'patches'
22:56.48pacman87then click 'add new'
22:56.59pacman87and there's some instructions there
22:57.50jdolinerk thanks
22:58.09``Erikyes, your first few patches will be via the sourceforge patch submission page so we can know that you understand the HACKING file and can produce correct and consistent code :)
23:01.38``Erikhah, trying to install cmake and accidently typed cake, got a rush of bad memories off of that
23:01.59``Erik(cake was the archaic fugly build system BRL-CAD used before I hacked it up for automake :D )
23:14.50jdolinerfair enough I could use some criticism
23:16.08jdolinerwould you guys call brep on brep intersection geometry editing, or modeling?
23:19.35brlcadprobably geometry editing, but that field isn't really important
23:20.46brlcadjdoliner: yeah, the main issue with commit access is spelled out in the HACKING file (which you've read right?) :) as well as http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Checklist (which you've read right?) :) just to make sure you understand your responsibilities
23:21.53``Erikis rt^3 wanting dev or stable ogre3d?
23:22.29jdolineryes of course
23:22.32brlcadit shouldn't take you more than a day really to get commit access sorted out, so you can commit in good faith, but you aren't just given it before showing some basic understanding (and your gsoc patch didn't show that.. can talk about that if you like)
23:22.55jdolinerno that's fine I just submitted my work up to this point
23:23.12brlcadkeep in mind that you absolutely should not be coding away quietly
23:23.20jdolinerit's now using vmath macros instead
23:23.32``Erikyou manually reviewed your patch file, yes? :) I always do an svn diff before commiting just to make sure
23:23.32jdolinerI swear I haven't been
23:23.33brlcadgetting commit sorted out is priority #1, should have happened before gsoc started really
23:24.01jdolinerk let's do that immediately then
23:24.13brlcadalso shouldn't be communicating in private -- here or on mailing list if it has anything to do with code/project/progress
23:24.17``Erikfinds a pointy stick to jab brlcad with until he gets his ogre question answered O:-)
23:24.30brlcad``Erik: ask the Ralith guy, beats me!
23:24.36``Erikok
23:24.40``Erikasks ralith and beats brlcad
23:24.40brlcador mafm
23:24.45brlcadheh
23:24.57mafmwhat about Ogre?
23:25.04``Erikdev or stable
23:25.06Ralith``Erik: g3d you mean?
23:25.08mafmralith removed it yesterday with consent from starseeker
23:25.10RalithOgre stable should work
23:25.14Ralithit's >=1.6 right?
23:25.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Jdoliner 07http://brlcad.org * r1479 10/wiki/User:Jdoliner:
23:25.25mafmI noted that I had put it there last year to have all dependencies inside
23:25.26``Erikum, 1.6 is stable
23:25.32Raliththen that'll work
23:25.43Ralithmafm: iirc, the reason it was there last year was because 1.6 wasn't stable yet and we needed some 1.6 features
23:25.45``ErikI'll grab dev anyways, there may be some future-proofing opportunities
23:25.55``Erik(and damnit, brlcad, you're supposed to know EVERYTHING)
23:25.57mafmbut I don't know which version Qt (or Ralith) needs
23:26.15mafmit only needed a simple patch for RBGui
23:26.20Ralithwell, the Qt-in-Ogre-in-Qt thing I think I'm going with depends on a 1.6 feature
23:26.29mafmbut now that RBGui is gone, no problem for me
23:26.31brlcadreiterates http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Expectations for all students
23:26.34Ralithmafm: works fine unpatched with RBGui, too.
23:27.18mafmprobably because they include the patch in newer versions -- it was only a new function
23:27.37Ralithyeah, I think I remember debugging that when I first tried a system ogre actually
23:27.51mafmFrequent communication with mentor -- ouch, I failed in that :P
23:28.28brlcadwe'll probably rebundle it later -- there's no problem either way until we go to press a source release and have to consider dependency management from non-developer compiling users
23:34.43mafmcurrent stable version is 1.6.2 (and recent, 2 months old), so if it's enough, I'd go with it
23:37.10``Erik<-- did an svn checkout of ogre3d's trunk
23:42.17``Erikyay, dependancy hell :D
23:46.15mafmsuch a big library (needing in turn other libraries) is indeed not fun
23:46.49mafmisn't there some concept in SVN about virtual repositories?
23:47.26mafmyou have a separate module (with ogre and the like) and then attach it to some point in other directories (g3d and maybe others)
23:47.43mafmit could help in maintenance if several parts depend on it
23:48.16mafmbecause OGRE needs about a dozen other libraries...
23:49.14``Erikand zziplib doesn't wanna build clean, neato
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090613

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090613

00:07.39pooliohey all, how's gsoc going?
00:08.09mafmerm, the beach is great? :P :D
00:08.54pooliooo nice :)
00:09.26mafmthings are still starting to unfold
00:09.48mafmgimme a patch here, install ogre there... :)
00:09.59mafmand brlcad poking ppl around, as usua
00:10.02mafmusual*
00:20.33brlcadmafm: yeah, we could just hook into their SVN from our repository, maybe using a tag/branch that they indicate -- something to consider down the road
00:23.04mafmnever tried that, but I saw ppl doing it in other project
00:28.08mafmtime to sleep!
00:32.25``Erik'cept not all of the deps are svn, most seem to be cvs so far
00:33.42brlcadyou'd just link to ogre, could still suck in the rest
00:36.53Ralithafks
00:57.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34724 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ (Makefile.am g-adrt.c): this g-adrt.c is defunct. remove it (can always look in the repo to get it back)
02:21.47brlcadcompletes something evil
02:22.11brlcad22:22 judgement hour
02:22.22brlcadwaddles off
02:47.23starseekerbrlcad: finally develop skynet did you? ;-)
02:56.12pacman87starseeker: that was a while ago, now he's contemplating releasing it
03:00.20``Eriksomething evil, something about judgement hour, and then he had to waddle instead of walking normally... and you're asking questions? O.o
03:03.02starseeker``Erik: if I need to duck and cover, I'd like to know...
03:03.12starseekersounds scary to me ;-)
03:10.36brlcadnothing so simple
03:17.23starseekerponders attempting an ogre build manually vs trying the ebuild...
05:01.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03IRPGuardian 07http://brlcad.org * r1480 10/wiki/User:IRPGuardian: New page: The Coolest guy in the World.
05:43.29Ralithreturns!
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09:48.43brlcadwelcome back!
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19:17.16``Erikhuh, show on history international about a group trying to accurately model the forbidden city in china
19:17.26``Eriksounds like they're using csg based on some small comments they've made
19:17.53``Erik"primitives, by that I mean things like spheres, even planes"
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19:49.08``Erikhttp://www.beyondspaceandtime.org/FCBSTWeb/web/index.html
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090614

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090614

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08:54.21starseekeranybody know anything about the Lauraville/Hamilton area of Baltimore?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090615

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090615

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13:09.21brlcadstarseeker: only the basics, nice relatively quiet town, especially towards the north end (but not too close to NP)
13:11.39brlcadow...seriously need to tag and release asap
13:45.32``Erikand migrate to the new machine *cough* O:-)
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13:48.33jdolinersean if you don't like the idea of a VCROSS_INIT macro
13:48.48jdolinercan I just make an INIT macro
13:49.00``Erikwhy not just make 2 lines?
13:49.07jdolinerthat just sets a vector up to initialize another macro
13:49.29jdolinerI guess I just have a compulsion to save it because I have to do it so many times
13:50.18jdolinerlike the lines required for the macro will be much few than how many I need to make every initilization to a cross two lines instead of one
13:54.59``Erikmebbe do it at the top of your cxx file?
13:55.26``Erikdoesn't think it warrants modifying a core header like vmath.h :)
13:56.26indianlarryjdoliner: hey joe it was my call on the INIT macro but most here are in agreement
13:57.25jdolinerokay, two lines it is ;-)
14:30.12brlcadjdoliner: consistency is king
14:30.15brlcadgeneral practice in C is towards static initialization on declaration, which contrasts with the more natural dynamic init you often find with C++
14:30.58jdolineri see, that would explain my compulsion
14:31.03brlcadso pretty common to find separation between decl and init, and in this specific situation even, it'd still be preferred
14:31.08jdolinerI'm a C programmer at heart :)
14:32.45brlcadparticularly with really old compilers, but even with modern ones, you can get some craptastic behavior during the dynamic init when there is a memory problem with the stack frame being close
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14:34.01brlcadthe bigger issue in terms of maintainability is what indianlarry mentioned about pretty much then needing a similar init function for every macro, which would be ineffective to maintain
14:34.44brlcadthere would also be code consistency problems with some code using the init calls, most not -- it expands the API with non-functional additions of logic/complexity
14:35.16jdolinerI see
14:35.23brlcadalso, you might not have covered in classes yet, but your VZERO macro is just wrong :)
14:35.44``Erikon two counts
14:36.56``Erik(floating point fuzz and the 'z' argument is mucked)
14:37.40jdolineryeah there's the typo whoops
14:38.10jdolinerin breplicator.c we use all of the equality functions with tolerances of 0.0
14:38.17jdolinerdoes that create similar problems?
14:38.29``Erikfor fuzz, yes
14:38.50``Eriktry using FLT_EPSILON or DBL_EPSILON or something to compare
14:39.14``Erikif ( fabs(x) < DBL_EPSILON )    instead of   if ( x == 0.0 )
14:40.26jdolinerI've actually left tol open to be passed down by higher functions
14:40.32jdolinerby just using the VNEAR_ZERO macro
14:40.38jdolinerdo you think that's a good idea?
14:47.08``Erikshells in and kill -9's indianlarry's irc process because he's thinking too hard about that book he's writing :>
14:47.26indianlarryyour call joe - if the usage doesn't require the DBL_EPSILON and is something that may change across invocations then pass in from higher
14:48.13jdolinerhmm
14:50.33jdolineryeah at least for lower level stuff that's going to be called in a number of different places I want them passed down
14:51.13indianlarryerik suggest checking tolerance passed in to make sure not less than DBL_EPSILON ...
14:53.36jdolineryeah that makes sense
14:53.36jdolineralso you probably already saw this but in case you didn't I submitted a revised patch :)
14:54.40brlcadinstead of using *_EPSILON, vmath abstracts out two tolerance types if you basically want/need hardware limit (whatever that may be) and not application limited
14:54.54brlcadunitize tolerance and division tolerance
14:55.39brlcaddivision tolerance is generally the hardware's ability to differentiate two fastf_t values (i.e., DBL_EPSILON)
15:00.57brlcadunitize tolerance is a couple orders higher as the minimum delta required to distinguish two vectors (you naturally lose a lot of precision after the sqrt and multiplies)
15:05.58brlcadjdoliner: also more specific to your two patch files, when you respond to comments with an update, you can delete/replace the existing files with a new one
15:06.45brlcadwe might have to iterate a couple times just to make sure we discuss all the issues (there are still a variety of minor whitespace, indentation, comment, footer issues to sort out)
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16:30.19starseekerhey elena
16:30.57elenahi starseeker.
16:31.23elena:)
16:33.58starseekerelena: oh, ment to ask - where's your wiki page or whatnot with your daily work log?
16:34.25starseekermakes note to make irc logs searchable...
16:34.54elenawiki is here http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:EBautu
16:35.15elenashould I keep a daily log?
16:39.33starseekeryep
16:39.44elenaok. i'll start one.
16:40.02elenashould it be on the that wiki page or in someplace else?
16:40.11starseekerwiki is fine
16:40.24elenaperfect :)
16:40.25starseekerdoesn't need to be long, just a note on what was done each workday
16:40.41elenaok. sure.
16:41.44elenamay I start it tomorow? today I've been all day at a conference and didn't get much done.
16:43.51starseekerok.
16:43.57elenathank you.
16:44.01starseekerneed to keep up with it though
16:44.11elenaok. i will.
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17:25.02jdolinerwhere are unit tests located?
17:29.28starseekerunit tests?  you mean what units a database is using?
17:35.44jdolinerno, I mean like do you have one place where you keep all of the tests for different pieces of code
17:35.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34725 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: Add mechanism to do corner evals for nurbs solving only when the ray is 'close' to parallel with the surface normal plane - still need to base 'close' on some function of the flatness criteria.
18:02.01starseekerjdoliner: we don't have a unit test framework as such
18:02.17jdolineri see
18:02.21jdolinerwhen you say as such
18:02.35jdolineris there some sort of equivalent thing?
18:05.17starseekerit depends - there are regression tests for various bits of functionality
18:05.46starseekerbut no function level testing in the "unit test framework" sense
18:06.30starseekerI've had discussions with other team members about it in the past, but the consensus is it would involve a HUGE amount of work for fairly minimal gain, at least at this point
18:08.44``Erikthere are a couple small ad hoc tests when a piece of code becomes prone to issues, but we mostly rely on large integration tests (namely our benchmark pixcmp stuff)
18:09.07``Erikbut, for example, libbu has 'htester'
18:09.17jdolineryeah I guess to make comprehensive tests for such a large project would take forever and we know it works
18:09.19jdolinerI see
18:09.30jdolinerwell I'm writing some tests right now
18:09.59jdolinerand I was asking because I would have included them in the framework
18:10.50starseekernp - just keep them in with your code, keep them organzied, and comment them out when you're "done" with that part of the code
18:11.41``Erikif it helps, you could make an executable with them as an explicit target? *shrug*
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18:21.25jdolinerErik: yeah I'm doing it as a seperate executable
18:21.25jdolinerbut I should include the tests?
18:58.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34726 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/find.c: Modified ged_find_ref (i.e. added a space after appending name to ged_result_str).
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19:46.00brlcadjdoliner: there are system, regression, and integration tests in the regress/ directory -- the issue with unit tests is another case of maintainability
19:46.17brlcadunit tests are relatively high-maintenance (compared to other types of tests like integration tests)
19:48.43jdolinersry what do you mean by integration tests?
19:49.21brlcadnot to mention the sheer size of writing unit tests for a 1M sized codebase .. one that has complete coverage, that's another massive project in itself, and one that increases the code complexity (anything changed requires changing it at least twice) causing change resistance or tests that fall out of sync
19:49.41brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integration_testing
19:50.48brlcadinstead of testing whether routing foo_blah() computes a foo and returns 0 for A and non-0 for B inputs, you test whether the pix-png conversion tool (which hypothetically uses foo_blah()) actually works for a given set of "high-level" tests
19:51.34brlcads/routing/routine/
19:52.38jdolinerokay I understand
19:54.10brlcadregression, system, and integration tests are (much) lower maintenance than unit tests as they should only fail on select user-visible changes, not any API change (which is good and bad, but overall good in terms of effectiveness)
19:55.02jdolinerright actually I think my project lends itself pretty well to integrative tests
19:55.05jdolineroverall
19:55.15jdolinerbut while I make it I still of course have to test module by module
19:55.36brlcadyeah.. you're quite welcome to write tests for your code, especially throughout your development
19:55.57brlcadI almost always write test harness applications when writing new API routines like you're doing regardless
19:57.13brlcadif the test harness is "useful" by the time i'm done, it gets added in somewhere .. but more often than not, it's just development throw-away code that wouldn't add value even if it had full-coverage on that snippet
19:57.52brlcadso just use your judgement, or commit if unsure (easy to remove later) :)
19:58.36jdolinerwill do
19:58.47jdolinerhave you taken a look at my most recent patch?
19:59.08brlcadjdoliner: remember to focus on cleaning up that patch first though -- getting commit sorted out is more important than getting the code implemented right now
19:59.35jdolinerI'm actually unclear right now what still needs to be cleaned up in it still
19:59.37brlcadi hadn't, was hoping indianlarry would take a stab at it first ;)
19:59.46jdolinerok cool
19:59.48jdolinerI'm sure he will
20:01.27brlcadlooking now
20:01.46brlcadokay several minor points at a glance
20:02.29brlcadall files should have our standard header and footer -- you added the footer but not the header
20:02.41brlcadthere are scripts in sh/ for adding header/footer or both (template)
20:03.25brlcadanother, consistency point on comment style, include a space after your *'s in comments /* like this */ and /*not like this*/
20:03.50*** join/#brlcad madant (n=d@117.196.128.159)
20:04.06brlcadif you have a blocking editor like emacs, vi, studio, etc, you should be able to auto-indent paragraphs (column 70)
20:09.17*** join/#brlcad andax (n=andax__@d213-102-40-182.cust.tele2.ch)
20:09.20brlcadpretty minor, but else should be on the } line, not after
20:12.05brlcadah, yes -- your indent whitespace also is inconsistent with our HACKING guidelines -- what editor are you using?
20:12.53jdolinervim
20:12.57brlcadspace between ){
20:13.28brlcadso there's a setting in vim you can enable and it'll auto-configure itself based on the comment footer
20:13.30jdolinershould an else if be on the } line too?
20:13.44jdolineroh please tell me that command
20:13.49brlcadI forget the exact magic keystroke incantations, maybe erik knows
20:13.58brlcadyes, } else {
20:14.26jdoliner"} else if {" too?
20:14.35brlcadit's standard K&R / Stroustrup style
20:14.39brlcadyes
20:16.15brlcadthe HACKING file talks about most of this with some examples, so please do read it in full (and *not* just skim it)
20:17.57brlcadthe style plays heavily into the consistency and maintainability of the code you add, so it's more about uniformity across the source code
20:18.31brlcadnot N styles from N contributors, regardless of personal preferences or familiarity, for better or worse -- changes to style are intentional amongst the group (and applied across the entire code)
20:19.22brlcadthere's actually a long-standing effort to continually clean up the inconsistencies that exist, but as mentioned in the guide, it's not an excuse for new code and not an excuse to not make the existing code consistent ;)
20:23.15brlcadlooks like that covers it for the patch, the only other thing noticed would be for authorship/contact info to move to the AUTHORS file instead of per-source.  files are invariably multi-authored if they survive any useful length of time -- the docs provide credit better
20:38.53*** join/#brlcad jdoliner1 (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-75-169.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
21:01.26jdoliner1I don't see what's inconsistent about my indent whitespace
21:01.37jdoliner1should it be exanded to spaces?
21:11.22brlcadno..
21:11.32brlcaddid you read HACKInG?
21:11.47jdoliner1yes many times
21:12.03jdoliner1and it really seems like its right
21:12.04brlcadand, then in the section on whitespace
21:12.22jdoliner1but maybe im missing something obvious
21:12.23brlcadIndents are 4 characters, tabs are 8 characters.
21:12.48brlcadwhich for vi is what the "ex: shiftwidth=4 tabstop=8" declaration means
21:12.56brlcadthat's a "vi-line"
21:13.06brlcadequivalent to "vi: shiftwidth=4 tabstop=8"
21:13.46brlcadmeans first indent is 4 chars, second is a tab, third is a tab+4chars, fourth is 2tabs, etc
21:14.22brlcadif you set those two vi variables, it should indent correctly
21:15.32jdoliner1i'm was pretty sure that's what I set them too...
21:23.27jdoliner1okay I think I got everything
21:23.35jdoliner1**crosses fingers
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16:36.22pianohackerIs there a help page detailing the various kinds of primitives and what parameters they take? Trying to follow the included tutorial, and the order of parameters has apparently changed in 7.14.8
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17:30.04jdolinerindianlarry, are you around?
17:42.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34727 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): added 3d box grow and added some more debugging hooks
17:48.13indianlarryhey joe what's up
17:50.30jdolinerhi
17:50.42jdolineris there any chance you could take a look at my most recent patch
17:50.46jdolinerwhen you get a chance
17:51.15indianlarrysure i had checked earlier but it looked older then the most recent IRC chats with brlcad
17:51.29jdolinerI haven't heard anything back for ~12 hours and I think I've caught all the stylistic errors at this point
17:51.40indianlarryI'll run through it
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17:52.31jdolinergreat thanks alot
18:09.36indianlarryhey joe, is your latest version uploaded? not sure why but your patch on tracker uploaded 2009-06-15 21:22 still has a full tab indent at first level
18:10.50jdolinerokay I think I'm confused on what the tabs should be
18:11.39jdolinerthe first indented line should be the equivalent of 4 spaces?
18:11.55jdolinerand then every tab after it should be 8?
18:15.30indianlarrytake a look at something like src/librt/cmd.c
18:16.44indianlarryindents should be increments of 4 with tabs for groups of 8 chars
18:17.08indianlarryso indent 5 would be 2 tabs and 4 spaces
18:17.27jdolinerokay
18:17.32jdolinerthat makes more sense
18:19.38jdolinerokay so I set shiftwidth to 4 then
18:19.42jdolinerand tabstop to 8
18:20.28jdolinerand then select all and hit =
18:20.38jdolinerand it looks like that was what I already had
18:21.37starseekerI recommend also checking out the utility script ws.sh
18:22.10starseekernot totally sure if it's still current, but you can check
18:24.49jdolinerokay just ran it through ws.sh and now every indent is a full tab.
18:24.55jdolinerwhich doesn't seem right to me
18:26.33starseekerI'd suggest finding a file brlcad has worked with recently (a ws commit message is usually a good sign) and seeing how that is set up
18:28.51jdolinerk
18:29.11jdolinerindianlarry I just uploaded a different one that I think is the correct whitespacing
18:29.12jdolineris it?
18:32.57indianlarrychecking
18:33.14jdolinercool
18:37.13indianlarrysorry didn't make a difference. what editor are you using
18:40.16jdolinervim
18:41.45jdolinerit looks right in emacs too
18:43.08indianlarrylet me go back to tracker maybe not downloading properly
18:48.44indianlarryjoe does src/librt/cmd.c look spaced the same as brepintesect.cpp
18:48.52indianlarryin your editor?
18:49.03jdolineryes
18:49.16jdolinerthe first indent is 4 spaces
18:49.20jdolinerthen 1 tab etc.
18:50.35indianlarrywas there any differences in for file from the upload last night
18:51.00jdolineryes I believe so
18:51.25jdolinerbut I deleted that file when I uploaded the new patch
18:59.26starseekerstarseeker: looks ok here, indianlarry also looking at
18:59.40starseekermight be something about his particular machine
18:59.43starseekerseems to be OK here
18:59.58jdolinerhmm
19:00.23jdolinerwhat about my machine could cause this?
19:00.48indianlarryi think he meant my setup
19:43.52indianlarryhey joe looks okay to me, will try to get brlcad to open you up for commit
19:45.41indianlarryremember several functions (ie printf -> bu_log) are wrapped or re-implemented in libbu for cross-platform use
19:45.50indianlarrycalled out in hacking guide
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20:10.48jdolinerk
20:11.04jdolinerI'll reread those immediately
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21:10.13indianlarryjdoliner: looks like an error in your src/proc-db/Makefile.am mods, your referencing brepintersect.c versus .cpp
21:12.23indianlarryjdoliner: you'll also want to follow 'breplicator' related build info, a cpp requires additional linking information
21:13.47jdolinerI see
21:13.57jdolinerk just changed it to be the same as for breplicator
23:27.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 0389.136.118.141 07http://brlcad.org * r1481 10/wiki/More_Changelog: New page: This is the changelog for [http://more.brlcad.org more.brlcad.org] GSoC project. The project plan and specification is located [[User:EBautu | here]]. =April, 20 ??? May, 23 - Bonding per...
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00:36.07CIA-32BRL-CAD: 0389.136.118.141 07http://brlcad.org * r1482 10/wiki/More_Changelog: /* April, 20 ??? May, 23 - Bonding period */
00:38.02``Erikeffing broke my wrist :(
00:38.13brlcadque? como?
00:39.15brlcadhehe, I think you're doing it wrong. *ahem* :)
00:39.22CIA-32BRL-CAD: 0389.136.118.141 07http://brlcad.org * r1483 10/wiki/User:EBautu:
00:39.29``Erikheh
00:40.23``Erikwas drunk rough-housing, put the hand down to keep my an the kids skull from smackng ground
00:41.21``Erikextended sick leave in an unfun way :(
00:42.08``Erikunless I can coerce daytona and bparker into carrying my
00:42.08``Erikme
00:42.42``Erik(which is an unsubtle hint for you to chatter them)
00:42.46``Erik:D
00:43.22``Erikor anyone else who can talk to 'em *shrug*
00:45.03brlcadyou can't drive with one arm?  I manage it all the time ;)
00:45.14``Erikright arm is out
00:45.17brlcadknee + left-hand shift
00:45.19brlcad;)
00:45.37``Erikheh
00:45.45brlcadisn't kidding <cackle>
00:46.32``Erikclipped a piece off the cup
00:46.49brlcadand there are already plans for chinese buffet 'morrow :)
00:47.10``Erikwhich?
00:47.25``Eriklee's hunan is one I can skip
00:47.26brlcader, not family
00:47.38brlcadah, then you won't miss anything :)
00:48.09``ErikI think that spaghetti at grmpys had chicken
00:48.18brlcadman is this ceviche awesome!
00:48.31``Erikheh, bring some up!
00:49.26brlcaddont think any will be left, only got a pound of orange roughy which will probably be gone after tonight
00:49.42``Erikhey, what kinda stuff does tidewater have? I really wanna go, ... but am not 100%
00:49.50brlcadhave to make a nother batch
00:50.17``Erikyou should bring some into work :)
00:50.25brlcadspecialty is seafood, but also have other stuff -- steak, salad, soups, etc
00:50.49``Erikso a harbor snob shop
00:50.57brlcadhttp://www.thetidewatergrille.com/menus/lunch-dinner-menu.html
00:51.41``Erikheh, the have an extra e :)
00:52.15brlcadit's so they can charge you more ;)
00:52.33brlcadmm.. that ribeye sounds really good
00:53.19``ErikI'll keep the page open an see how my hand is doing in a couple days
00:53.35``ErikI doubt steak is in my near future :(
01:06.59starseeker``Erik: broken broken or just hurt?
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07:17.44madantheh http://www.flickr.com/photos/39304894@N05/3618699986/in/photostream/
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09:46.47CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Jdoliner 07http://brlcad.org * r1484 10/wiki/User:Jdoliner: Updated with 3 days worth of progress.
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11:47.21madantbrlcad: where exactly does mged search for the tab autocompletion ?
11:49.06archivistdoes it use readline...wherever that stores its data
11:50.10``Erikum, there's a list in tcl, daytona added it
11:52.43``Eriktab expansion in src/tclscripts/mged
11:56.49madant``Erik: yay.. thanks :)
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12:36.47brlcad~seen elena
12:36.48ibotelena <n=elena@89.136.118.141> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 1d 19h 52m 37s ago, saying: 'ok. i will.'.
12:37.16brlcadmadant: trust you found it, yes?
12:38.25brlcadtab-completion needs to be refactored into more of a C component at some point, or at least a tcl component that is auto-loaded (you'll get an error presently if you run classic-mode without installing)
12:39.45brlcadRalith: fyi, you're getting beyond danger zone at this point .. really gotta kick up the activity in a massive way
12:40.02brlcadpacman87: same for you too...
12:41.13brlcadit's easy to get distracted with other priorities, but there's going to be no possible way to recover if there are more days of inactivity
12:43.03brlcadreally don't want to have to establish probationary failure criteria in order to keep the activity going, but it might have to come to that given folks aren't putting anywhere near full-time effort in yet
12:58.30madantbrlcad: hmm.. not really.. still figuring it out :)
12:59.05madanti was making the first command in libged. lscon for listing constraint objects in a databse
12:59.52madantit works in mged now ( prints "Hi" that is) except for the autocompletion
13:16.00mafmbrlcad: slap them with a large trout!
13:34.46mafmbah, nobody likes my MIRC reference :'(
13:35.07madantcheers mafm :P
13:35.40mafmcries, only gets cheers for pitiness...
13:35.53madanthas to go shopping with MOM
13:36.19madanthas to go shopping wiht MOM RIGHT NOW :P talk about pity :P
13:37.39mafmlol
13:37.50mafmI got a free day from mom today
13:38.03mafmshe went with her ex-workmates :P
13:38.08_clock_MOM RIGHT NOW is it sume subspecies of MOM?
13:39.01mafmyep _clock_, it's the most aggresive
13:39.06mafmworse than polar bear mums
13:46.47brlcadmafm: slapped
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13:47.42brlcadhopefully that message will convey the sheer urgency of the situation
13:52.31brlcadas a workaholic, I too-often tend to assume folks will simply work more/harder/better when they miss time in order to get caught up, but that's not been the case thusfar
13:53.15brlcadthankfully, e-mail does not lend itself well to a blink tag ;)
13:54.17mafm_IMPORTANT SUBJECTS OMG would not help either, they to directly to spam :P
13:54.26brlcadDEFEAT DOES NOT EXIST IN THIS DOJO, DOES IT?! (NO SENSEI!)
13:54.40mafm_:D
13:55.51mafm_I've been a bit sidetracked in the past weeks too
13:56.20mafm_but I managed to produce something regularly
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14:27.41pacman87is guilty as charged
14:32.39CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34728 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/filefield/ (34 files in 7 dirs): filefield 2.4 (initial commit)
14:49.51madantanybody else having all these Makefile.in and m4 scripts cropping up in the other/step during svn status check. should i edit the svn:ignore property ?
14:50.33madantsame goes for some htmls in docbook/lessons/mged
14:51.39starseekerthe step stuff yeah, I see it too - go for it on the property changes
14:51.58starseekerdunno about docbook/lessons/mged - thought I had all that - but if not go for it
14:55.54madantstarseeker: for instance lessons/mged/mug_through_gui.html
14:56.17madantcould i go for svn:ignore *.html in lessons/mged ? :)
14:56.42starseekersure
14:58.10madantkewl.. and whats with all these m4 scripts m4/libtool.m4 .. creepy ..
15:01.08``Erikurses
15:01.09``Erikcurses, even
15:01.11starseekerstep is a full fledged subconfigure
15:01.31starseekerit can actually build as a standalone library
15:01.54``Erikall imports can (src/other)
15:04.13starseekerI don't think most of them do the whole autogen -> configure stage on their own as a standalone checkout
15:05.29starseekerwhat I ment was if you were to checkout just trunk/src/other/step from our svn tree you don't need any of the top level autogen/configure scripts - it's self contained
15:06.00starseekerI'm not sure about that for all of the src/other libs
15:06.05starseekerparticularly opennurbs
15:06.30madantboost doesn't even need building :)
15:17.52CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34729 10/brlcad/trunk/ (13 files in 13 dirs): svn:ignore set for various files
15:18.50CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34730 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/filefield/filefield.module: Add option to filefield fields to select local files (required for ftp model uploading)
15:56.17``Erik´no, many are not aumomake
15:57.23CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34731 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/filefield/filefield.module: Add handler to filefield fields to select local files (required for ftp model uploading)
16:00.54mafmcan see some relationship between brlcad's blackmailing and the current surge in activity :D
16:01.50``Erikheh
16:07.04``Erikcept it aint blackmail, it's step up or step off
16:08.07starseekeryep
16:10.12mafmhe made them an offer that they can't refuse
16:10.19mafmil padrino
16:11.17madant:)
16:11.40madantil padrino indeed :P
16:13.44madantoh wait my commit didn't even have a single line change :P
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16:33.19CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34732 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/filefield/filefield.module: Implement copy/move/link for local files in filefield fields (in order to cope with huge 1GB+ files)
16:35.34CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34733 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (39 files in 39 dirs): svn:ignore further directories and files - step, adrt,proc-db and src/conv related
16:53.23madantbrlcad: my autogen.sh adds these files to the m4 in root as well as src/other/step/m4 - libtool.m4, lt~obsolete.m4, ltsugar.m4 ltversion.m4 ltoptions.m4 should they be added to the svn:ignore individually ?
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17:13.45brlcadmadant: it adds files to m4?? what version of libtool do you have?
17:16.49brlcadotherwise, yes -- you can/should individually (not globbed) add any files generated during autogen.sh or configure
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17:24.13brlcadjdoliner: hey jd -- did you see indianlarry's message about the patch not compiling?
17:25.48jdolineryeah, updating right now
17:26.03jdolineralthough it did still compile
17:26.03brlcadhow'd it compile for you? :)
17:26.05jdolineratleast for me
17:27.04brlcadhum
17:28.05jdolinermake brepintersect
17:28.16jdolinerworked for me
17:29.31jdolinerwhich in retrospect is kinda weird I guess
17:30.47brlcadbut that gave you a brepintersect program that you could run?
17:31.01jdolineryeah
17:31.07brlcadit should fail outright during autogen.sh
17:31.24brlcad(which you should run whenever you edit a Makefile.am or the configure.ac file)
17:31.42jdolinerI see I didn't know that
17:31.54jdolineryeah "make brepintersect"
17:32.15jdolinerwas working exactly how I wanted it to so I didn't think twice
17:32.56jdolinerokay just uploaded the changes I made to the make file
17:33.01brlcadno problem
17:33.09brlcadpretty minor issue
17:33.28brlcadnot exactly within scope to become an expert on build systems and make ;)
17:33.53indianlarryjdoliner: i take a look at now
17:34.02jdolinerthanks
17:34.14brlcadi'm just surprised make is actually producing a product for which there isn't a rule, using some default rules :) .. maybe a gnumake feature, never seen that with bsdmake
17:34.53brlcadthe patch is still the old one or did you just upload something now?
17:35.20jdolinerI just uploaded something new
17:36.20brlcadk
17:38.10indianlarryjdoliner: where's your header file?
17:38.21indianlarryjdoliner: not in patch
17:38.35jdolinerk
17:38.40jdolinercoming forth with
17:38.56jdolinerforgot to svn add that :?
17:39.33brlcadif you run "svn status", it'll tell you the state of files including files it doesn't know about annotated with ?
17:39.33indianlarryjdoliner: no problem just let me know when it's up
17:40.02brlcadsvn status goes hand in hand with running svn diff when making a patch to make sure you've included everything
17:40.42brlcadand that's *not* just for patches .. you do the same for commits too .. otherwise you're going to hose other developers and the compilability of the code (especially for svn add's)
17:43.27madantbrlcad ltmain.sh (GNU libtool) 2.2.6
17:43.28jdolinerk uploaded
17:43.36indianlarryjdoliner: on it
17:44.00brlcadmadant: libtoolize --version
17:44.11brlcadsame thing?
17:44.28madantyep
17:44.35brlcadokay, interesting then
17:44.44brlcadthat's the newest libtool I've seen
17:45.18madantit basically adds the same m4 scripts to the root m4 and the one in step
17:46.41brlcadmadant, indianlarry, pacman87: you all should have tracker rights now to update any tracker item data for any tracker item
17:46.52brlcadjust fyi
17:47.08madantyippeeee :)
17:47.22pacman87ok
17:47.22madantok i should start acting more matured around here
17:47.51brlcadjust shouldn't add/change any groups or categories (as they are permanent and cannot be unchanged)
17:47.59brlcadat least without discussion
17:48.02madantbrlcad what is the intaval at src/other ?
17:48.37brlcadintaval is a geometry file format used in the UK -- it builds an importer (tgf-g)
17:49.20brlcadmadant: it's no longer in src/other though...
17:49.47brlcadyou probably just have a stale directory (svn won't remove the dir if they have files in them (like the generated Makefile))
17:49.55madantyeah it has an empty directory with a Makefile and Makefile.in :P
17:50.09indianlarryjdoliner: hey all built okay, brlcad gave you commit access, make me proud ;^)
17:51.11jdolineryippee
17:51.12madantjdoliner: congrats :)
17:51.31madanti was very thrilled when i got my commit access
17:51.41madantbroke the build within a week i think :P stupid boost
17:51.45brlcadjdoliner: go ahead and commit your patch to make sure commit access is set up okay, include useful commit message, etc
17:51.49brlcadhehe madant
17:51.51madanti meant boostlib
17:53.03brlcadyeah, jdoliner -- don't expect you to get everything right, and accidental breakage from time to time will occur, but do expect you 1) to try to not break it, 2) to fix it quickly when you do break it and 3) to talk with the other devs, especially if you're unsure or have questions ;)
17:53.15brlcadotherwise, congrats! :)
17:53.18jdolinerthanks
17:53.24jdolinerpassword is my sourceforge password?
17:53.32brlcadI sure hope so
17:53.33madantjdoliner: yep
17:54.00madantat some point i want to shift my name from stupid homovulgaris to madant at sourceforge
17:54.03brlcadone you set it, it'll cache the password so you don't have to keep entering it
18:00.15CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r34734 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (Makefile.am brepintersect.cpp brepintersect.h):
18:00.20CIA-32BRL-CAD: Initial commit for breponbrep CSG support. Adds the functions PointInTriangle,
18:00.20brlcadwoo hoo
18:00.24CIA-32BRL-CAD: SegmentSegmentIntersect, SegmentTriangleIntersect, TriangleTriangleIntersect,
18:00.26CIA-32BRL-CAD: and stub for TriangleBrepIntersect in brepintersect.cpp. Also adds
18:00.28CIA-32BRL-CAD: brepintersect.h, the header file for brepintersect.cpp. And modifies the
18:00.30CIA-32BRL-CAD: Makefiles.
18:00.35brlcadnice
18:00.40jdolineroh baby
18:00.49indianlarrywhy to go jdoliner
18:01.03jdolinerthanks guys
18:02.04madantbrlcad types too fast didn't even give CIA time to finish :P
18:02.25``Erikeffin blankety blank
18:02.27brlcadCIA-32 is slow
18:02.57pacman87time to upgrade to v33?
18:04.03brlcadheh
18:14.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34735 10/brlcad/trunk/ (9 files in 5 dirs): adding the framework for lscon (list constraints) command to libged, associated tab-completion in mged
18:15.11madantmafm: step up or step off always works :D
18:18.10madantbrlcad, elena: how do i access this more system ? i mean what do i do at brlcad.org/more ?
18:24.43brlcadmadant: patience :)
18:25.34brlcadshe's been installing extension modules that are needed/useful
18:25.56brlcadthen comes configuration, then comes stubbing out a new module with functionality
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18:44.54madantbrlcad: ok :)
18:58.24mafmyay for stepping up!
19:09.31madantmafm: moi ? not sure if i did :)
19:12.43mafmonly il padrino knows
19:19.20``Erikwoot, gratz jdoliner
19:19.55jdolineroh thanks eric
19:20.25``Erikk...
20:26.42Ralithbrlcad: thanks for the notice
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20:34.11Ralithtoday, if all goes well, I should get RBGUI in Ogre in Qt to work
20:34.39Raliththen it's on to the task of rendering Qt widgets within Ogre in Qt, which should be easy.
20:36.55CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34736 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/captcha/ (30 files in 5 dirs): captcha initial commit (3.2)
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20:39.34Ralithmafm: you around?
20:45.17CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34737 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/fivestar/ (92 files in 15 dirs): fivestar initial commit (1.15)
20:47.23Ralithffffff
20:47.31Ralithgreat time for my wm to lose all semblance of stability >:|
20:47.53*** join/#brlcad elena (n=elena@89.136.118.141)
20:49.32CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34738 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/flag/ (21 files in 3 dirs): flag module initial commit (1.1)
20:51.51jdolinerralith: my window manager just detached one of the windows from its shadows
20:52.12jdolinerit felt so reminiscent of Peter Pan
20:52.18Ralithheh
20:52.34CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34739 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/imageapi/ (13 files): imageapi module initial commit (1.5)
20:53.34Ralithhokay, functionality restored
20:53.35Ralithback to work
20:54.55CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34740 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/imagefield/ (12 files in 2 dirs): imagefield module initial commit (2.6)
20:55.25brlcadRalith: sure, and good to hear -- great info for your wiki log after today ;)
20:55.55Ralithyeah.  I think I need to buy this machine a new ramstick, though.
20:55.59CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r34741 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/brepintersect.cpp: Added tests for SegmentTriangleIntersect. Fixed a bug in SegmentTriangleIntersect
20:56.06Ralithif I don't kill FF, just runninng g++ is going to drag me to a halt
20:56.19pacman87Ralith: what are you running now?
20:57.00Ralithone 512MB stick
20:57.20Ralithjust loading file menu to exit cleanly took a minute :|
20:57.28RalithI did not know building C++ took up this much RAM.
20:59.09Ralithfirefox annoyance #1: it doesn't exit when you think it's exited
20:59.15Ralithbreaks out the kill -9
20:59.39Ralithwatches half his memory free up :D
21:01.40*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-203.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
21:02.30CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34742 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/mimedetect/ (9 files): mimedetect module initial commit (1.3)
21:27.51CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34743 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (OgreGLWidget.cxx OgreGLWidget.h): Added temporary accessors for Ogre-related pointers to ease RBGui->Qt transition.
21:28.22Ralithargh.
21:41.00CIA-32BRL-CAD: 0389.136.118.141 07http://brlcad.org * r1485 10/wiki/More_Changelog:
21:41.03Ralith...ahah!
21:42.05Ralithyay! progress!
21:42.24CIA-32BRL-CAD: 0389.136.118.141 07http://brlcad.org * r1486 10/wiki/More_Changelog:
21:44.03CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34744 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/OgreGLWidget.cxx: Perform OGRE initialization in constructor so that OGRE's various singletons exist before the application formally starts.
22:08.54Ralithargh.
22:09.10RalithI'm going to have to drag all the RBGui stuff into OgreGLWidget until RBGui is completely purged >:|
22:17.59starseekerRalith: well, it's in a state of flux anyway :-)
22:18.19Ralithyeah, but it's making my nice tidy widget implemenation all messy.
22:18.36starseekerRalith: Ah :-)
22:22.56elenahi Cliff.
22:23.09starseekerhey elena - how goes it?
22:23.32elenafine. did you had a change to look at the activity log?
22:23.38elenais it ok how it is?
22:24.40starseekeryep, looks goog
22:24.42starseekerer good
22:24.51elenaok. thank you.
22:25.05elenai'm working now on the multiple upload methods.
22:25.34starseekervery good :-)
22:26.23elena:)
22:54.47elenagoing to bed.
22:54.54starseekerok, night!
22:54.59elenabye. have a nice day.
23:00.36*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14EE79.dip.t-dialin.net)
23:21.29*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-75-169.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
23:29.54brlcad~ralith++
23:29.59brlcadhooray for progress :)
23:33.41starseekerbrlcad: up for a C++ question?
23:33.48brlcadalways
23:33.59brlcadanswer is probably "don't do it!"
23:34.10brlcads/it/whatever/ :)
23:34.12starseekerhehe
23:35.05starseekerOK, we currently have BANodes and BVNodes defined for the curve and surface trees.  There are typedef statements that appear to be linking each of those to ON_BoundingBox, e.g. typedef BANode<ON_BoundingBox> BRNode;
23:35.59brlcadsorta, but continue
23:37.16brlcadBANode<ON_BoundingBox> can be thought of as a type of it's own, hence the typedef -- more specifically, BANode is a template class, apparently a node comprised of an ON_BoundingBox object
23:38.29starseekerOK, so that node gets ON_BoundingBox + whatever was defined in BANode?
23:39.10starseekeror is it JUST a ON_BoundingBox that can be treated as also being of type BANode?
23:39.11brlcadreally all it means is that BANodes use an ON_BoundingBox in some fashion
23:39.27brlcaddepends entirely on how it was used
23:39.33starseekerOK.
23:39.38mafmRalith: intermittently :D
23:39.51brlcadthe thing between the <>'s is any type, used in some way by the class
23:40.33brlcadfor example, BANode<int> could conceivably work, for example
23:40.34starseekerbrlcad: The functional consequence appears to be to allow the m_node.m_min statements to actually return something, because m_min is defined in ON_BoundingBox and is nowhere defined in opennurbs_ext.h that I can see
23:41.48brlcadcan sort of think of the thing between the <>'s, e.g. <FOO> as a #define FOO ON_BoundingBox .. and the BANode class uses FOO in various places in its header
23:41.49starseekerand in the class definition of BANode m_node is defined thusly:  BA m_node;
23:42.06brlcadso when you say BANode<Whatever> it substitutes all the FOO's with Whatever
23:42.32starseekerAh, OK
23:43.50brlcadtemplates really are sorta similar to the preprocessor, just instead it's a language intrinsic that the compiler knows about so it can actually continue to perform proper type checking
23:43.58starseekerso that definition means anything of class BA will satisfy the type requirements and can be assigned to m_node?
23:44.38brlcadit means m_node is of type <WHATEVER>
23:45.34brlcadso that m_node.m_min is only valid for classes that have a m_min data member, and trying to use a type like BANode<float> for example, will result in a compile error
23:46.10brlcadbecause it's like saying:  float foo; foo.m_min = blah;
23:46.21starseekerah.  OK
23:46.31brlcadinstead it's like: ON_BoundingBox foo; foo.m_min = blah;
23:46.37brlcadsince that's what was in the <>'s
23:47.04brlcadsomewhere in the definition you should see a line that says template <class BA>
23:47.08starseekererm.  what is the advantage of the typedef then over just using ON_BoundingBox?
23:47.10starseekeryes
23:48.31starseekeris missing something...
23:48.41brlcad'class' is a compiler hint saying it needs to be a class type, not some basic type like int/float/etc; BA is the "#define BA ..." symbol
23:49.20brlcadso then the "BA m_node;" line can be thought of as being substituted by the <> class type
23:50.23starseekerresulting on ON_BoundingBox m_node; ?
23:50.29starseekers/on/in
23:50.32brlcadyep
23:51.19starseekernow I REALLY don't get why he didn't just use a straight up ON_BoundingBox declaration
23:51.49brlcadtemplates are quite powerful and can be very beautiful, allowing very flexible and tuned performance
23:52.02brlcadtemplate errors are a spawn of the devil and cause premature aging
23:52.43brlcadprobably because he wasn't sure he wanted to couple his class so strongly to an ON class
23:53.20brlcadas a template, he theoretically has to change very minimal to use his own BB class, for example, or something highly optimized, etc
23:53.28starseekeroh, so he could just change that one line and avoid having to rewire all the explicit ON_BoundingBox references?
23:53.34brlcadright
23:53.54mafmpremature aging, calculus is the kidneys, vomits and sometimes diarrhea
23:53.55brlcadhe would just have to make a class that has a m_min data member and he would only have to change one line
23:53.58brlcadthat's pretty cool
23:55.40starseekerproceeds to document that, no matter if it's overly basic and only helpful for C++ ignoramuses...
23:55.54brlcadthinks starseeker will probably become a fan of boost for their mathematical rigor once he gets the hang of templates
23:56.15starseekerprobably :-)
23:57.45starseekerbrlcad: thanks for clearing that up - I was trying to see how all that wired together and was having a bit of a time of i t
23:58.50mafmdo you want to learn the basics about templates? probably some of the functions like std::max and the like are easy to grasp, and then some of the classic data structures (lists, queues...)
23:59.06brlcadand yes, fwiw, that's exceedingly basic c++ to be a persistent comment -- one intro course and that comment becomes the equivalent of explaining "#define FOO bar" replaces all instances of FOO with bar
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090618

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090618

00:00.21starseekerok, fair enough.
00:01.45brlcadnow you could document the requirement that it be a class that implements an m_min data member and whatever particular API calls that are made on that BA object, but then the compiler is going to fail on anything that doesn't implement those anyways (yay, typechecking)
00:02.22starseekernods. It will only be an issue if we ever use something other than ON_BoundingBox, which isn't terribly likely
00:15.17starseekerah, there it is
00:15.28starseekerindianlarry: BASegment is used in intersectshierarchy
00:15.41starseekerer intersectsHierarchy rather
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00:33.39indianlarrystarseeker: will look into
00:34.05starseekerno rush - it's not hurting anything :-)
00:34.44starseekera preliminary eval suggests it doesn't really need it, but not sure yet
00:35.24indianlarrystarseeker: would be my guess but once we start delving into differences between utah and other may come into play
00:50.46Ralithhm
00:50.51Ralithnobody around here actually knows any Qt, right>
00:50.52Ralith?
00:52.07starseekerI don't
00:52.48brlcadRalith: its a big api,have to be a lot more specific :)
00:53.41Ralithbrlcad: just digging around for a convenient way to run the OIS input state update about every frame until RBGui is dead.
00:53.49brlcadbut in general, no api experts per se but certainly some knowledge
00:54.12RalithQt provides its own main loop so I can't just drop it in there as it's done currently
01:02.31Ralithinspiration!
01:05.07brlcadRalith: yes, but you can create a QTimer that calls the OIS update
01:05.36Ralithyeah, I just realized that I can tack this on to the draw function for the root widget.
01:05.38brlcadcan create QTimers for pretty much anything that you want to exec for each iteration of the main app llop
01:06.00Ralithwhich is appropriate 'cuz it needs access to ogre internals anyway
01:06.11brlcadyou also can override the main Qt event loop altogether (i.e., not call exec()), but that's a lot more involved
01:06.22Ralithyeah, I imagined so
01:10.09Ralithargh.
01:11.14starseekerindianlarry: are the BANode and BVNode intersectedBy and intersectsHierarchy codes pretty much the same?
01:11.45Ralithfffff mocha >.<
01:12.09Ralith#ifndef MOCHA_TIMER_H \ #define MOCHA_TIMER_H \ ... \ #endif \ }
01:12.12Ralithfacepalms
01:12.58brlcadah, here it is .. something like: QTimer *input_timer = new QTimer(ois_handle); connect(input_timer, SIGNAL(timeout()), ois_handle, SLOT(update())); input_timer->start(0, TRUE); // execute ois->update() repeatedly
01:13.22brlcadwhat's the problem there?
01:13.38Ralithit closes a block started inside the #ifndef outside of it.
01:13.43brlcadah
01:13.44Ralithtrivial fix but geez.
01:13.54Ralithyou'd think they'd never used their own lib
01:14.03brlcadheh, yeah kinda funny
01:14.17indianlarrystarseeker: yes wasn't sure if we needed at the time
01:14.48indianlarrystarseeker: not using for BANode
01:14.57starseekernods
01:15.10starseekerok, I didn't think you were doing an explicit ray intersection
01:22.13CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34745 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/mocha/Include/Mocha/Timer.h: Fixed header guard misalignment
01:27.09starseekerindianlarry: I guess Ii'm being dense, but it looks like getClosestPointEstimate is always going to throw new exception once it hits a leaf node?
01:29.16starseekerOh, I see - that's just for non leaf nodes in general...
01:30.05starseekeror rather, for BANode
01:30.39starseekerand it iterates down until it does find a leaf node... got it
01:31.27Ralithhm.
01:31.32Ralithmafm: this mean anything to you?
01:32.15Ralithhttp://codepad.org/CrBlBTsB
01:32.18Ralithgoes to grab some food
01:34.39mafmRalith: not really
01:35.22mafmbut I don't know much about glsl and shaders
01:35.36mafmmaybe it needs some special library as Cg?
01:36.02Ralithnah, it was working earlier
01:36.05Ralithit's something I changed
01:36.07RalithI'll fiddle around after food.
01:36.30Ralithlooks like I'm pretty close to the milestone, though.
01:38.13mafmgoody
01:38.25starseekerhas OGRE compiled now :-)
01:38.52mafmyou're still using cmake?
01:39.09mafmmaybe it's something that you changed there?
01:41.06mafmanyway, I g2g now
01:41.10mafmgood night
01:41.17brlcadcya mafm
01:56.58starseekerheads out
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02:12.19CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34746 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/: careful with large commits, don't ignore directories (blt)
02:12.32Ralithbrlcad: should I be avoiding committing code that doesn't currently work?
02:17.54brlcadRalith: you should commit it, but you shouldn't enable it for compilation
02:18.23brlcad#ifdef work_in_progress or leave the file out of the compile, etc
02:18.42Ralithwups, went about this kinda wrong then.
02:18.43brlcadeven if it means a bit of temp minor scaffolding
02:19.34brlcadthe eventual goal is towards restructuring the way you approach a problem so that you work on things in tiny incremental pieces
02:19.54Ralithnods
02:20.05brlcadso the code is always "complete", functional even if you absolutely know it's not how it'll need to be later
02:21.47Ralithhm, damn, the ogre-in-Qt's-GL thing didn't Just Work.
02:22.37brlcadheh
02:23.09Ralithooooh I missed a step
02:23.20Ralith...wait, no I didn't
02:23.27Ralithat least, not according to the wiki page.
02:38.45Ralithuses break in gdb for the first time, and loves it.
02:39.13Ralithinteresting... the problem doesn't appear to be in Ogre at all, but in RBGui.
02:42.28RalithI don't suppose anybody has an ogre.log lying around from a successful run of old g3d?
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02:53.49Ralithahah.
02:53.53Ralith_renderWindow->getCustomAttribute("WINDOW", &data);
02:54.53Ralithyyyup, that's null.
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04:21.18CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34747 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (OgreGLWidget.cxx OgreGLWidget.h): Moved RBGui and OIS setup into OgreGLWidget until they can be fully purged.
04:22.55Ralithdamn, doesn't look like I'll be able to get this entirely working tonight.
04:22.59RalithVery, very close, though.
04:24.42Ralithbrlcad: I'm going to be mostly away from an internet connection tomorrow and a large chunk of friday, but I will have the laptop with me and be continuing work.  Not sure how I'll keep the SVN commits small under such circumstances, though, short of lots of manual diffing.
04:34.23brlcadokay, don't worry about the diffs, but do keep a log of all your changes for the eventual commit message(s) .. try to sync when you can and/or when you do get access, you can commit some parts piecewise for any changes that aren't intertwined
04:34.38brlcadstill update the wiki log for each day
04:35.19Ralithyup
04:35.24Ralithooh :D
04:35.49RalithI think the messages I thought were fatal errors were actually harmless warnings, meaning that the only visible issue is a missing material file!
04:39.20CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r34748 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: started converting my math calculations into code to support the carc segments in revolved sketches
04:41.33Ralithargh, that one died and took my WM with it.
04:45.36Ralithokay, something is wrong with the loading of the RBGui shaders.
05:12.28louipcRalith: git ftw :P
05:14.18Ralithlouipc: yeah, I like distributed vc too, but svn's what we've got here.
05:15.08louipcyou can use git-svn. I haven't really tested it out though
05:17.15Ralithyeah, I'd rather just focus on the task at hand.
05:18.07louipcah right you have deadlines
05:21.47CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1487 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Log update for 2009-06-17
05:22.30CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1488 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Fixed some external link syntax
05:23.06Ralith...hmm, I wonder if that error is actually related...
05:25.39Ralithbuilds latest ogre to find out
08:15.52CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r34749 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/brepintersect.cpp: added functionality in PointInTriangle so that planarity is no longer assumed but actually checked
09:02.06madant_brlcad: similar to blt i think i had ignored src/mk as well
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11:05.43brlcadmadant_: then you should unignore those :)
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11:26.43CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34750 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (. proc-db/): unignore src/mk , ignore brepintersect
11:27.12brlcadbrepintersect is a product no?
11:28.10brlcadit's okay to ignore products, things normally generated during a build
11:28.48brlcadthe only ones that shouldn't be ignored are special build products like the plethora of testing files generated during "make test"
11:31.23madant_k.. i didn't understand the mk directory though
11:32.17brlcadit's a stale directory -- exactly why it shouldn't be ignored, it lets you know that it was removed and you have files in there that should be deleted
11:32.20madanti mean it is generated during the build process ?
11:32.28brlcadno
11:32.37brlcadno dirs are created during build
11:32.44madantk
11:33.07brlcadit used to be a dir with source files, part of the build
11:33.11brlcadin svn
11:33.26brlcadwhen the directory was removed, svn goes to remove your local copy
11:33.31brlcadbut you had extra files in there
11:34.04madantah.. ok.. got it now.. still 18 ? in my svn status .. mainly those m4s i were referring to yesterday.. starseeker has them too i think ?
11:34.07brlcadnamely, old build files (hence the Makefile Makefile.in and .o files but no Makefile.am or *.c files) ..
11:34.29brlcadit removed the svn entities but couldn't remove the dir because you had unknown files in there
11:34.55brlcadit's not going to just delete your files that it's not managing -- those could be source files or something important
11:39.12madantbrlcad: also in src/other/step/src/express these three files are created every build expscan.c expparse.c expparse.h
11:39.46brlcadyeah, I've seen those
11:40.02brlcadI'd left them simply because they're actually generated source, but could go either way
11:40.59madantand the scl_config.h.in, scl_config.h and stamp-h1 in step/include ?
11:41.20madantstep building seems complicated to my sorry ass :P
11:41.42brlcadit is complicated, it's an exceptionally complicated file format :)
11:42.08brlcad(bar none, the most complex)
11:43.32brlcadyou could ignore those three -- they are the equivalent to our include/brlcad_config.h.in include/brlcad_config.h and include/stamp-h1
11:43.39brlcadbyproducts from configure
11:44.07brlcadsvn propget svn:ignore include/.
11:48.13CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34751 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/include/: ignoring configure byproducts in src/include
11:48.30madantthat's it.. only m4 scripts and the generated files now.. onto some real work now :P
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12:31.07CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34752 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
12:31.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: corrected plotting of linear trim sections in debug code, now
12:31.11CIA-32BRL-CAD: remove vertical trims from "above" list after initial bbox intersect
12:31.13CIA-32BRL-CAD: test, fixed logical condition when closest trim bboxes overlap
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14:15.44CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Homovulgaris 07http://brlcad.org * r1489 10/wiki/User:Homovulgaris: log added, bio updated
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14:59.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34753 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/widgeditor/ (21 files in 4 dirs): widgeditor module initial commit (1.1)
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15:10.22CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34754 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/votingapi/ (6 files): votingapi module initial commit (1.6)
15:19.55CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34755 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/nodequeue/ (27 files in 3 dirs): nodequeue module initial commit (2.6)
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18:27.42CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34756 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/filefield/filefield.module: Allow local files to be copies, moved or linked during model submission (move and link are useful for very large files).
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18:53.01CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34757 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/filefield/filefield.module: Implement customizable local path for filefield.
18:56.52CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34758 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/filefield/filefield.module: Default local file path to empty to prevent redundant processing.
19:20.57CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r34759 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/brepintersect.cpp: SegmentTriangleIntersect now passes all tests in the basic case
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19:25.14CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34760 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/filefield/filefield.module: Factor out local file processing code to _filefield_process_local_file and add security checking.
19:27.03CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34761 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/filefield/filefield.module: Security checkings for local files.
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20:30.08CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34762 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/themes/fireflystreamcom/page.tpl.php: Theme bug fixed (display status messages)
20:31.47elenahi starseeker. are you around?
20:31.47CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34763 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/filefield/filefield.module: Implemented Ajax autocomplete for local files (includes filename, size and created time).
20:31.53starseekerhowdy
20:31.55starseekerwhat's up?
20:32.30elenai just wanted to let you know next week i'll go to another time to meet my PhD advisor.
20:32.54elenaI plan to catch up for the lost days this saturday and following weekends.
20:32.56starseekertime zone you mean?
20:33.06starseekerok
20:33.12elenasorry. time => town.
20:33.15starseekerah
20:33.16elenaa bit tired :)
20:33.25starseekernp - good to see the commits :-)
20:33.34elenait would be cool to go to another time, too :D
20:34.00elenayes. it's starting to shape up so i started to put it live, too.
20:34.24elenai almost finished to implement local repository for files.
20:35.10elenaso model files could be uploaded (normal and ajax style) or they could be send by ftp/scp and just selected when submitting the model info.
20:35.22elenaworks really nice :)
20:35.28elenasays proudly
20:35.36starseekerexcellent :-)
20:35.54elenai'll go update the wiki now
20:36.00starseekernods
20:36.10elenaand do some more work after that.
20:36.26elenai'll start uploading the db soon.
20:36.34starseekersounds good
20:36.44elenai'll try to upload it so i don't have to redo all the settings again.
20:36.50elenai hope it works,
20:37.34elenahow are you?
20:38.43starseekerdoing ok - busy
20:38.55elenaok. then i won't keep you.
20:39.04elenahave a wonderful day.
20:39.05starseekernice work elena :-)
20:39.12elenathank you.
20:47.42CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1490 10/wiki/More_Changelog: /* June, 17 - today */
20:49.48CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1491 10/wiki/More_Changelog: /* June, 17 - today */
20:54.52CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34764 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/filefield/filefield.info: Tag info file with customization information.
21:18.28starseekerblinks
21:19.48starseekerindianlarry: time without any bbox growth on shape1.s - 10.1s - time with 3D bbox growth - 14.1s
21:20.45``Erikcorrectness, though?
21:20.55starseekerno errors
21:20.56``Erika fast wrong result is still wrong
21:21.09starseekerin the latter case
21:21.16starseekersure, no bbox growth results in errors
21:21.30starseekerbut when the boxes were being expanded in uv space, the time was more like 23 sec
21:22.16``Eriknot my scene, just want ya'll asking the right questios
21:22.32starseekersure, we know we need it correct first
21:22.55``Erikbusted wrist --
21:23.17starseekeractually broken?  owww
21:23.48``Erikyup
21:23.49starseekerthat sucks - sorry to hear that :-(
21:25.05``Eriktook a chip odd the ukna
21:25.10``Erikulna
21:28.30starseekerwinces
21:28.36starseekerhow long to fix it?
21:28.57``Erikd'no, been doing phoe tag, ain't got a doc yet
21:29.33``Erikbroke it monday, er tuestday, still in the fuzz ...
21:57.36CIA-32BRL-CAD: 0388.106.219.75 07http://brlcad.org * r1492 10/wiki/Compiling: /* History */
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22:38.04CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r34765 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/brepintersect.cpp: fixed several bugs in SegmentTriangleIntersect. Function now works with all degenerate cases.
23:58.20CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34766 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: move the build system up so we can finish the section with style. expand on the style examples separating indentation from interior ws.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090619

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090619

00:28.04*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
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05:56.29madant_``Erik: how's the wrist ?
05:57.06madanthad an ulnal fracture a couple of years ago -- stupid train accident :P
05:57.24madantthough much more towards the elbow
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07:30.50CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Jdoliner 07http://brlcad.org * r1493 10/wiki/User:Jdoliner:
07:39.31CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r34767 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/brepintersect.cpp: rewrote SegmentTriangleIntersect
08:21.17CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34768 10/rt^3/trunk/cmake/ (Findlibbu.cmake Findlibged.cmake): Improved CMake's ability to find libbu and libged when pkgconfig hints are unavailable by a great deal.
08:25.34CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1494 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Log entry for 2009-06-18
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08:28.03ralith_brlcad: just checking in--didn't get as much work done as I'd hoped; I discovered that is unexpectedly painful to update a FreeBSD system sufficiently to match my work on my main desktop on short notice, and only just got OGRE installed. :/
08:29.05ralith_there was some weird problem with Mesa 7.4 not finding xcb that refused to go away via ports but never manifested when I finally tried to build it manually.
08:29.34ralith_that and buildtimes.  My decision to move to a binary-based OS is reaffirmed -_-
08:30.15ralith_anyway, at least all this fiddling around on FreeBSD improved the buildscripts a bit.  Perhaps I should flesh those out to cover all BRL-CAD's libs at some point.
08:32.54ralith_No smart guesses on windows yet other than checking the environment for BRLCAD_ROOT, so if somebody wants to add those (should be easy enough to copy how it's done in the UNIX section) or let me know what are/where to find the default install location(s) on windows next time I'm on that'd be great.
08:34.35ralith_grabs some rest
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09:37.17CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34769 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 4 dirs): cc (create constraint) framework added to libged
09:38.31CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Homovulgaris 07http://brlcad.org * r1495 10/wiki/User:Homovulgaris: /* GSoC 2009 Log */ 18th June update
09:40.59CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Homovulgaris 07http://brlcad.org * r1496 10/wiki/User:Homovulgaris: /* Schedule */ adding Status
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18:03.10jdolineranyone want to help me understand what an ON_Brep looks like?
18:11.07starseekerjdoliner: what do you mean?  the definition is in the opennurbs headers - probably opennurbs_brep.h?
19:08.17CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34770 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/opennurbs_ext.h src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp): true/false won't be enough for trimming - get set to return integers.
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20:31.55CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34771 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/files/ (. humvee.png): Custom logo from http://brlcad.org/gallery/d/206-1/humvee.png
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20:42.37starseekerindianlarry: here are my thoughts on the fuzz issue we're seeing and how to approach it - fwiw:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/ambiguous_point_handling.txt
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22:33.14CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34772 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/: svn:ignore properties for files
22:36.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1497 10/wiki/More_Changelog: /* June, 17 - today */
23:08.49CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34773 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/misc/maintenance.css: customized maintenance theme.
23:14.02CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1498 10/wiki/More_Changelog: /* June, 17 - today */
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090620

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090620

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05:18.47Ralithreturns
05:18.50Ralithquiet day
05:30.07Ralitharghhh.
05:33.30Ralithbrlcad: It looks like I may not be able to get the RBGui stuff running intermediarly, worryingly enough.  The revision of ogre svn recent enough to have a working currentGLContext thingy appears to have changed enough to break RBGui.  I can try to update RBGui, of course, but if the changes are anything but trivial, that seems like a questionably worthwhile persuit, considering its deprecated nature.
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10:25.43brlcadRalith: okay, sounds reasonable
10:26.35Ralithkk, thanks
10:26.36brlcadthere shouldn't really have been an interdependency there (as the rbgui folks did their own thing), but it's not important to sort out exactly what
10:27.02Ralithwell, right now all I know is that librbgui.so is throwing unresolved symbols around.
10:27.10Ralithunresolved ogre symbols, that is
10:28.12brlcadsounds like something caused by our build of it
10:28.22Ralithhopefully I'll be able to get Qt-in-Ogre-in-Qt running tomorrow, then, assuming that currentGLContext works as advertised, which I have been advised it does.
10:28.34Ralithin svn, that is.
10:29.12Ralithas you may have noted in my log, stable is apparently broken there for the time being.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090621

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090621

00:39.17CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34774 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (OgreGLWidget.cxx OgreGLWidget.h): Stripped references to RBGui from OgreGLWidget in light of the incompatibilities between recent Ogre SVN and the RBGui-Ogre interface.
00:41.17Ralith<3 shell
00:41.22Ralithgrep -i rbgui * |grep cxx |cut -d ':' -f 1 |uniq
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01:57.02CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34775 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (OgreGLWidget.cxx OgreGLWidget.h): Moved debug messages to Logger
02:19.24Ralithfixes ogre up to not prematurely kill Qt's context
02:19.50Ralithbrlcad: since we need the dev version, and now a minor patch, shall I bring ogre back into rt^3/src/other?
02:20.50brlcadprobably a good idea
02:21.06RalithI'll throw the patch upstream, and it will probably get accepted, but at least in the meantime...
02:21.07brlcadit's nice for it to be as simple as possible for others to try things out
02:21.13Ralithyeah.
02:21.23brlcadeven if it means more headaches for the active devs
02:21.59brlcadunless adding it in actually makes things worse because it's not integrated well or there's some build system problem or it has other bugs/issues etc :)
02:22.05Ralithokay, OgreGLContext starts up and shuts down fine within a Qt app.  Now I need to get something rendered to see if it's actually doing anything.
02:25.37brlcadawesome!
02:25.44brlcadpics when you do! :)
02:25.54Ralith'kay
02:26.25Ralithhm
02:26.33Ralithcan you recommend a good, feature-complete but lightweight browser?
02:26.44RalithI need something to use when I have firefox closed for memory reasons
02:26.56Ralithcurrently I'm making do with dillo, but that can't log in to sf.net 'cuz no https or cookies.
02:33.35Ralithhm, arora looks shinyful.
02:38.23brlcadnot really, not something I've had to work with lately
02:44.04Ralitharora does the job nicely.
02:44.13Ralithokay, patch submitted upstream.
02:53.35CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34776 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/OgreGLWidget.cxx: Simplified destructor
03:23.56starseekerhasn't heard of arora
03:24.08starseekerhmm, does look interesting...
03:24.59starseekerRalith: in a worst case scenario might check out elinks, links and links2
03:25.58Ralithstarseeker: I guess those do do https+cookies iirc, but that's pretty worst case.
03:26.04Ralitharora does the trick nicely, thankfully.
03:27.27Ralithgrargh!
03:27.40Ralith% svn ci ogre
03:27.43Ralith...time passes...
03:27.46Ralith...more time passes...
03:27.50Ralith.........
03:27.59Ralithsvn: PUT of '/svnroot/brlcad/!svn/wrk/adfd0d86-e975-4225-90e5-9fe45f183f57/rt%5E3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Samples/Media/packs/OgreCore.zip': could not connect to server (https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net
03:28.06starseekermay have seen a tornadic rotation today in Bel Air
03:28.52Ralithtries again
03:31.22starseekerRalith: if you're uploading ogre to svn, that'll be a process
03:31.29Ralitha process?
03:31.42starseekerI recommend doing it a few directories at a time
03:32.05starseekersmaller "bites" seem to work better with the sf servers, in my experience
03:32.23Ralithokay, let's try that.
03:32.40starseekerflashes back to getting the docbook support files in there...
03:36.22Ralithgah
03:36.29Ralithhow do I set a global default svn:mime-type :|
03:39.24RalithFFFF
03:43.48Ralithokay, finally, one down.
03:43.52CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34777 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/ (28 files in 15 dirs):
03:43.54CIA-32BRL-CAD: Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Commit
03:43.57CIA-32BRL-CAD: 1 of ?
03:45.55Ralithstarseeker: now I'm consistently getting 'connection reset by peer' trying to commit a reasonably-sized directory.
03:46.05Ralithsvn: PUT of '/svnroot/brlcad/!svn/wrk/c15f0990-e0bc-4000-8927-761347c0a79c/rt%5E3/trunk/src/other/ogre/CMake/Packages/FindDirectX.cmake': SSL negotiation failed: Connection reset by peer (https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net)
03:46.26Ralithnot always quite the same file
03:48.39Ralithautoprops is broken >.<
03:51.37starseekerRalith: here's brlcad's mime-types wiki article if it helps:  http://brlcad.org/wiki/Mime-types
03:52.02Ralithah, that looks helpful.
03:55.17Ralithgaaah.
03:55.26Ralithnow svn's somehow screwed up my term.
03:56.13RalithI really really hate svn sometimes :|
03:56.24Ralithgrabs some food while he re-exports ogre
03:57.57Ralithwtf.
03:58.14Ralithralith@monolith:~/dev/brlcad/rt^3/src/other% svn add ogre
03:58.17Ralithsvn: run 'svn cleanup' to remove locks (type 'svn help cleanup' for details)
03:58.20Ralithralith@monolith:~/dev/brlcad/rt^3/src/other% svn cleanup
03:58.22Ralithsvn: 'ogre' is not a working copy directory
03:58.28Ralithralith@monolith:~/dev/brlcad/rt^3/src/other% svn add ogre
03:58.30Ralithsvn: run 'svn cleanup' to remove locks (type 'svn help cleanup' for details)
03:58.56Ralithokay, that was easier than I expected to clear up.
03:59.59Ralithwhat the hell
04:00.06Ralitham I going to have to check out rt^3 from scratch or something
04:00.17Ralithwhy is it so hard to delete something you added :|
04:00.30starseekercan you revert the directory in question?
04:00.47Ralithralith@monolith:~/dev/brlcad/rt^3/src/other% svn revert ogre
04:00.48Ralithralith@monolith:~/dev/brlcad/rt^3/src/other% svn add ogre
04:00.48Ralithsvn: warning: 'ogre' is already under version control
04:01.18starseekeryou'll have to individually add subdirectories
04:01.24starseekersvn add ogre/foodir
04:02.05Ralithokay, wait, finally got it.
04:02.29CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34778 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/: Undo previous add
04:07.59CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34779 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/ (28 files in 15 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
04:08.17Ralithmakes a script do all the work
04:08.18Ralith:D
04:08.21CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34780 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Samples/ (38 files in 37 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
04:08.27CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34781 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Samples/Dot3Bump/ (CMakeLists.txt scripts/ src/): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
04:08.40CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34782 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Samples/Dot3Bump/src/Dot3Bump.cpp: Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
04:08.47CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34783 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Samples/DynTex/ (CMakeLists.txt include/ scripts/ src/): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
04:09.01CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34784 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Samples/DynTex/src/DynTex.cpp: Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
04:09.08Ralith...hmm, this is too spammy, isn't it
04:09.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34785 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Samples/Smoke/ (CMakeLists.txt include/ scripts/ src/): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
04:09.16CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34786 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Samples/Smoke/include/Smoke.h: Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
04:09.20Ralithmy bad.
04:10.02starseekerI'd suggest not doing it file by file ;-)
04:10.08Ralithit was directory-by-directory
04:10.11Ralithbut that's still quite a lot.
04:10.33starseekerlimit depth to (say) 2?
04:11.23RalithI'm not sure svn can do that, nor how to structure a find(1) query to get the proper dirs.
04:11.32Ralithgrah, now i can't get autoprops to rerun again.
04:11.39Raliththis is incredibly painful.
04:12.23RalithI'm going to go eat and try again after.
04:27.10Ralithokay, idea
04:27.19Ralithno wait, that will probably just make it harder.
04:32.13Ralithwonders how mafm managed to do this originally
04:34.33Ralithwhy can't svn just prompt for a default property setting ;_;
04:34.55CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34787 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/CMake/ (48 files in 4 dirs):
04:34.57CIA-32BRL-CAD: Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable.
04:35.00CIA-32BRL-CAD: Partial commit.
04:35.59CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34788 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Components/ (59 files in 10 dirs):
04:36.00CIA-32BRL-CAD: Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable.
04:36.03CIA-32BRL-CAD: Partial commit.
04:37.17CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34789 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Dependencies/OgreInstallDependencies.cmake:
04:37.19CIA-32BRL-CAD: Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable.
04:37.22CIA-32BRL-CAD: Partial commit.
04:44.12Ralithwhy is zsh echoing input and beeping instead of running my script :|
04:48.02Ralithwtf!
04:48.06Ralithsvn: warning: 'Docs' is not under version control
04:48.14Ralithsvn: warning: 'ogre/Docs' is already under version control
04:48.53Ralithooh.
05:03.40CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34790 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Docs/ (205 files in 15 dirs):
05:03.40CIA-32BRL-CAD: Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable.
05:03.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: Partial commit.
05:11.06CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34791 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Mac/ (42 files in 21 dirs):
05:11.06CIA-32BRL-CAD: Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable.
05:11.08CIA-32BRL-CAD: Partial commit.
05:42.28*** join/#brlcad cady (n=marc_vre@195-240-188-51.ip.telfort.nl)
06:00.47Ralithugh
06:01.04Raliththe sf svn servers are unreliable :|
06:17.22louipc:O
06:37.31CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1499 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Log for 2009-06-20
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07:54.30madanthas reached his univ and room which is going to be his abode for 2 years
07:55.22madanthates it when there is no decent access to at least a socks proxy even if not a completely open network
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08:27.39madantsheesh. fried my brains for an hour trying to figure out a build error only to realize constraint was spelled constriant somewhere :(
08:27.48madanthowdy jdoliner
08:29.29jdolinerhi
08:29.35jdolineryou're up awfully late
08:29.52jdolinerbut maybe you'd like to give me your opinion on something
08:29.55jdoliner?
08:32.02madanter. my opinions are not very valuable. but sure :)
08:32.34madantand it is 14:03 here. though i haven't slept since yesterday .
08:32.45jdolinerI see
08:33.01jdolinerI was accidentally correct
08:33.15jdolinerso suppose I have two meshes and I want to find their intersection
08:33.38jdolinerand so basically I find the curve they intersect in
08:33.47jdolinerby just intersecting them triangle by triangle
08:33.53jdolinerwhich is all well and good
08:34.04jdolineruntil two triangle intersect in something that isn't a line
08:35.09jdolinerthen what do I do...
08:35.20jdolineroh actually you answered my question
08:35.56madanter.. huh :P
08:36.13jdolineryeah I think I see the answer
08:36.54madantgood :)
08:37.47jdolinerthe magic of teamwork
08:38.42madantwhere are you right now ?
08:39.55jdolinerchicago
08:40.19jdolineryou must be pretty close to the opposite side of the world from me
08:40.56madantpretty much . heh 3:40 there .. as brlcad says good.. a little bit of us dies everytime we sleep
08:41.01madant~sleep
08:41.01ibotmethinks sleep is overrated, and a poor substitute for caffeine.
08:45.39CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34792 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/cc.c: adding code to cc command, adds dummy rt_constraint object to the database
08:47.51CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Homovulgaris 07http://brlcad.org * r1500 10/wiki/User:Homovulgaris: /* GSoC 2009 Log */ 19th June update
08:53.03CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34793 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/Doxyfile: Doxyfile update
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13:28.47madant1brlcad: in rt_constraint_internal struct i should use bu_vls for storing the constraint expression , right ?
15:07.28*** join/#brlcad madant1 (n=cb7baf0f@bz.bzflag.bz)
15:44.51madant1needs more caffeine it seems
16:43.47brlcadshould usually use vls in structs in leu of char*'s for strings
16:45.53madant1brlcad: also, should rt_constraint_ifree function free up that vls ?
16:47.32brlcadyes, usually
16:49.09madant1ok
16:52.38madant1brlcad: right now i am just trying out writing an expression as a string and storing it in the database, but it should be encoded right ?
16:52.54madant1which functions do i use for encoding the string ? or do i need to write one ?
17:06.13CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34794 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): adding (bu_vls) expression variable to rt_constraint_internal, testing writing hardcoded data to db using GED_DB_PUT
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20:18.52Ralithgrr.
20:18.54RalithI keep getting:
20:18.58Ralithsvn: PROPPATCH of '/svnroot/brlcad/!svn/wrk/f5f0c204-0510-4163-b487-ad75f0469a44/rt%5E3/trunk/src/other/ogre/OgreMain/include/OgreRenderQueueSortingGrouping.h': SSL negotiation failed: Connection reset by peer (https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net)
20:19.35CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34795 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/OgreMain/CMakeLists.txt: Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
20:19.58Ralithwtf?
20:20.13Raliththat didn't go through on my end O.o
20:20.30RalithEG   ogre/OgreMain/CMakeLists.txt
20:20.37Ralithwonder what that stands for.
20:22.21Ralithgraah!
20:22.24RalithI can't commit anything!
20:30.59Ralithchrist, how did mafm pull this off originally :|
20:31.49Ralithmy aplogies in advance for the upcoming spam, but there doesn't seem to be any other way to make commits work.
20:33.11CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34796 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/OgreMain/ (include/ obj/ scripts/ src/): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
20:33.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34797 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/OgreMain/include/GLX/ (. OgreConfigDialogImp.h OgreErrorDialogImp.h OgreTimerImp.h): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
20:33.55CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34798 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/OgreMain/include/OSX/ (. OgreConfigDialogImp.h OgreErrorDialogImp.h OgreTimerImp.h): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
20:37.39Ralithokay, even just ogre/OgreMain/include/*.h is too big to commit cleanly.
20:37.39Ralithjesus.
20:38.07Ralithanyone have any suggestions, short of committing progressively smaller sub-blocks until it works?
20:47.10RalithYES! :D
20:47.17CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34799 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/OgreMain/include/ (242 files in 4 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
20:47.57CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34800 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/OgreMain/include/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
20:52.41louipcRalith: ah how come you have to commit them bits at a time? bad connection?
20:52.56Ralithlouipc: my connection is fine, the sourceforge servers aren't.
20:54.31Raliththe size of a commit that they accept seems to be completely random
20:54.45Ralithand generally very small
20:54.53louipchmm
20:56.32Ralithgives up and breaks it into small blocks, only to have sourceforge reject a single file commit
20:58.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34801 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/OgreMain/src/ (32 files): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
20:59.15louipcmaybe it's just a temporary problem they're having right now. You could ask for tech support I guess heh
20:59.26Ralithit's been like this since yesterday
20:59.32Ralithcommits D through P
20:59.46Ralithand starseeker mentioned he'd had similar issues, iirc
21:01.05CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34802 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/OgreMain/src/ (89 files): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
21:01.22Ralithnow Q through Z.
21:04.19CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34803 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/OgreMain/src/ (70 files): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
21:04.38Ralithnow for whatever's left.
21:05.48CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34804 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/OgreMain/src/ (32 files in 7 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
21:06.36CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34805 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/OgreMain/obj/ (Debug/ Debug/.keepme Release/ Release/.keepme): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
21:06.46CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34806 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/OgreMain/scripts/ (OgreMain.cbp OgreMain_linux.cbp OgreMain_stlp.cbp): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
21:08.47CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34807 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Other/ (VC7_AppWizard.msi add_crlf.py rem_endspc.py tab2spc.py): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
21:18.14CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34808 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/PlugIns/ (228 files in 34 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
21:25.33CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34809 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/RenderSystems/CMakeLists.txt: Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
21:28.48CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34810 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/RenderSystems/Direct3D10/ (63 files in 4 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
21:29.34CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34811 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/RenderSystems/Direct3D9/ (59 files in 4 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
21:41.40CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34812 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/RenderSystems/GL/ (203 files in 21 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
21:43.39CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34813 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/RenderSystems/GLES/ (82 files in 12 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
21:46.50CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34814 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/SDK/ (42 files in 4 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
21:46.56Ralithrelaxes.
21:53.53``Eriko.O
21:58.27Ralith``Erik: I've discovered that the probability of a commit going through is something like inversely proportional to the square of its size.
21:58.55louipcdoes it mean I can unignore cia?
21:58.58louipc:D
21:59.01Ralithhehe
21:59.02Ralithnot quite yet
21:59.15RalithI was just relaxing because it was going smoothly for a little while.
21:59.18louipchehe ok
21:59.20louipcnice
21:59.32RalithSamples seems to be going badly though, and if I can't get it to go in all at once there'll probably be some more serious spam
22:00.27brlcadcommit spam is good
22:01.11Ralithbrlcad: not if it's all basically one commit.
22:01.27brlcadRalith: more than likely it's some intermediate router on your end resetting the connection
22:01.47Ralithprobably, but it's nothing local enough for me to be able to address it.
22:01.54brlcadhave similar issues from the arl network but not outside (ever to date)
22:02.28Raliththe real issue I guess is just how much of my time this single simple thing is taking.
22:02.46Ralithtries sending in samples A through K
22:03.01Ralith(zsh's regex wildcards are great for this)
22:04.21brlcadtrue, what's the error when it fails?
22:04.44brlcadsvn: Commit failed (details follow):
22:04.47brlcadsvn: PROPFIND of '...' ?
22:04.55brlcadcould not connect to server
22:05.03Ralithno, it's connection reset by peer
22:05.09Ralithand the command (PROPFIND or w/e) varies
22:06.56RalithI'll paste an example next time it happens
22:07.48brlcadyeah, that sounds like the same problem -- a router requests a reset, which confuses svn (even though is valid tcp behavior)
22:07.54brlcadwhat version of svn are you using?
22:08.12brlcadcould try updating to a newer release
22:10.22Ralith1.6.1 (r37116)
22:10.44CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34815 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Samples/ (213 files in 81 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
22:10.48Raliththat was A-K.
22:12.29brlcadhm, that's pretty new .. what about openssl?
22:14.35Ralith0.9.8k 25 Mar 2009
22:29.21Ralithwatches the k-z commit lengthen apprehensively.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090622

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090622

00:31.58*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
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01:59.10CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34816 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/opennurbs_ext.h src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp): added trim distance return to isTrimmed() for determining when hit crack
02:28.28CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34817 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Samples/Media/ (428 files in 21 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
03:10.49CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34818 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Samples/Lighting/ (21 files in 11 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
03:11.56CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34819 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Samples/ (77 files in 37 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
03:14.55CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34820 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Samples/ (95 files in 49 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
03:16.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34821 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Samples/ (86 files in 41 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
03:16.35CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34822 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Scripts/ (.keepme m4/ m4/cppunit.m4 m4/sdl.m4 null.sh remove_debug.sh): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
03:20.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34823 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Tests/ (97 files in 29 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
03:58.51Ralithwonders just how long a svn commit can take
04:12.46Ralithokay, it's locked up now.
04:12.57louipcwee!
04:13.19Ralithkill -9s and tries again
04:13.34louipcI feel your pain man
04:14.23louipcmaybe I can help. let me know if there's anything
04:14.50Raliththanks, I'll do that
04:15.00Ralithpretty sure it's just a matter of slogging through the heirarchy though.
04:15.25Ralith(and stomping the occasional bug)
04:31.47Ralithanother lockup >:|
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06:45.52stevegt_1wonders if there's any clean way to generate 2-D toolpaths to laser cut panels from a BRL-CAD model
06:46.25stevegt_1wonders if anyone else is awake right now
06:46.46stevegt_1probably have to poke in here tomorrow and ask again
06:47.52RalithI'm here
06:47.56Ralithit's theoretically possible
06:48.02Ralithjonored wrote the code to do most of the work
06:48.17Ralithbut he hasn't been around for a while and never published it
06:48.50Raliththe raytracer gives you enough info to do it
06:49.24stevegt_1I just spend the weekend digging through g-xxx.c et al -- looks doable, but I'd hate to make a fool of myself if it's already been done
06:49.35Ralithit hasn't.
06:49.41Ralithit's nontrivial though
06:50.11Ralithlet us know if you get it working
06:50.20Ralithit'd be a very useful for lots of things
06:50.29stevegt_1maybe i'm thinking of it all wrong -- I'm seeing it as a 2-D dxf generation problem... you think I need to be looking at the raytracing code instead?
06:51.04Ralithwell if you want to just convert a sketch to a dxf that's not hard
06:51.12Ralithor at least I imagine it's not, I don't know the relevant code
06:51.29Ralithbut going from a 3D model to 2D toolpaths is significantly more involved.
06:53.30stevegt_1well, what i'd want to be able to do is put together a model, mark the material attributes for the parts that are going to be laser-cut, then, in something like 'g-epilog', filter out just those parts, and generate a dxf or epilog (PCL) file for each one
06:54.22stevegt_1i'm not sure that would solve the general g-code generation problem, except for driving CNC routers and lasers
06:55.06Raliththat's most of it
06:55.15Ralithand once you've solved that, any further uses could easily build on your work
06:55.26stevegt_1huh
06:58.14stevegt_1do you know if there's already a piece of code buried somewhere in the tree that i could call or copy which would help me rotate a part so it's normal to a reference plane, then get the resulting 2-D vertices?  I don't know if I'm making any sense or not...   for instance, I started looking at the "flatten" stuff in the NMG libs, not even sure if that's related
06:59.06stevegt_1s/rotate a part so it's normal/rotate a part so the largest face is normal/  
06:59.09stevegt_1or something like that
07:01.07stevegt_1i mean, if we first assume that the shape is cut from a flat panel (extruded from a sketch, probably, but not always), then that means that there will always be exactly two flat faces which are identical, and we can just pick one
07:01.24Ralithstevegt_1: ...BRL-CAD isn't mesh-based.
07:01.25Ralithit's CSG.
07:01.36Raliththere's no such thing as "the corresponding vertices"
07:01.47stevegt_1right, which means i'm probably confusing myself by looking at the g-xxx code
07:01.53Ralitheverything is in terms of volumes
07:02.02Ralithextracting 2d toolpaths is nontrivial.
07:02.19stevegt_1which is why you're mentioning the raytracer?
07:02.48Raliththat's how you work with the evaluated form of a BRL-CAD model.
07:02.54Raliththrough raytracing.
07:06.32stevegt_1looking at how the g-xxx triangulation code does it's job
07:06.32Ralithyou don't want to do tesselation.
07:06.32Raliththat's a waste of information
07:06.32Ralithconsidering that gcode can do true arcs
07:06.55stevegt_1that's what i was afraid you'd say
07:07.06stevegt_1or glad, actually
07:07.15stevegt_1'cause i was ignoring it so far  ;-)
07:07.21stevegt_1the tesellation code, i mean
07:08.02stevegt_1was thinking i didn't need it, but now i'm wondering how it does its job -- going to look
07:13.55stevegt_1suddenly recalls that it's g-xxx_facets which does tesselation, which he doesn't need, while g-xxx does not do tesselation anyway -- it just iterates through the results of rt_dirbuild
07:14.31stevegt_1and printf's what it finds
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07:21.59stevegt_1looking at g2asc as well now...   i'm confused -- if I have the record in hand that i got from the db, then i have its parameters in record.s.s_values -- why do i need to raytrace?  to account for booleans?
07:22.13stevegt_1must be that
07:25.04stevegt_1i'm going to take a guess and say that the reason why 2-D toolpath generation has been considered to be a hard problem is that it's been generally accepted that we needed to invoke the raytracer to execute boolean operations first
07:25.38Ralithit's not HARD
07:25.41Ralithjust hasn't been done yet
07:25.58Raliththere's lots of other stuff to do.
07:26.11stevegt_1okay, deferred  ;-)
07:27.24Ralithand yeah, the only way to evaluate booleans is to raytrace
07:27.41Ralithonly data you can get without raytracing is the primitives
07:31.11stevegt_1i'm thinking of gershenfeld's cad.py -- he used python's numpy 3-D matrix operations to do the booleans in very little code; part of my brain must have been assuming i'd do that instead of calling the brl-cad raytracer
07:31.20Ralith...
07:31.58Raliththe raytracer's ability to evaluate booleans is one of BRL-CAD's major high points
07:32.00stevegt_1yeah, whacky -- i should look at the raytracer first
07:32.08Ralithyou'd basically be using BRL-CAD for nothing but its fileformat
07:32.19Ralithdoing booleans well is hard.
07:32.28Raliththe raytracer will give you just about perfect precision.
07:32.32Ralithand reliably, too.
07:34.18stevegt_1Any suggestion where I should start to get my head around it?  I've been going back and forth through the PDF tutorials, including the Application_Develeopment slideshow -- am I missing some swath of developer docs somewhere else?
07:35.02Ralithwhat kind of docs do you want
07:36.13stevegt_1I probably don't know enough yet to ask.  ;-)   I'll have to go through that slideshow again.  I was ignoring the raytracing before, was just llooking at the DB access bits.  
07:44.14stevegt_1hmm.  src/rt/viewarea.c looks like a real good place to start as well
07:45.43stevegt_1actually all the view*.c stuff
07:48.50stevegt_1expects to sit down someplace quiet tomorrow and grok view*.c -- "only" 11,568 lines ;-)
07:49.16stevegt_1Ralith: thank you, very much -- I think you got me on the right track
07:49.20Ralithcool
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10:55.08CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34824 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Tools/3dsmaxExport/ (116 files in 26 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
10:55.17CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34825 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Tools/BitmapFontBuilderTool/ (. main.cpp): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
10:56.03CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34826 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Tools/BlenderExport/ (24 files in 4 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
10:56.07CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34827 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Tools/CMakeLists.txt: Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
10:56.24CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34828 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Tools/CommandLineTools_Readme.txt: Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
10:57.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34829 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Tools/Common/ (11 files in 5 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
10:57.52CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34830 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Tools/LightwaveConverter/ (28 files in 4 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
11:36.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34831 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Tools/MaterialEditor/ (178 files in 18 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
11:37.32CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34832 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Tools/MayaExport/ (35 files in 6 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
11:37.41CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34833 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Tools/MeshUpgrader/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
11:38.08CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34834 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Tools/MilkshapeExport/ (28 files in 9 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
11:38.32CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34835 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Tools/VRMLConverter/ (26 files in 7 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
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11:38.44CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34836 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Tools/Wings3DExporter/ (11 files): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
11:41.03CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34837 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Tools/XMLConverter/ (22 files in 5 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
11:42.24CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34838 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Tools/XSIExport/ (32 files in 6 dirs): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
11:42.34CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34839 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Tools/dotXSIConverter/ (. include/ include/Exporter.h src/ src/Exporter.cpp): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
11:42.44CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34840 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/Tools/rcapsdump/ (. scripts/ src/ src/main.cpp): Added Ogre SVN (r8739, latest as of this commit) due to serious bugs in features needed by g3d in Ogre stable. Partial commit.
11:42.57Ralith:D
11:42.58Ralithdone!
11:45.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1501 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Log for 2009-06-21
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13:36.28brlcadRalith: hehe, well congrats on that .. ouch
13:36.57brlcadnext time you have something that big, maybe could tar it up for one of the other devs to commit :)
13:37.24brlcadcouldn't hurt to put in an sf.net ticket if only to have them check it out too just to make sure it's not something on their end
13:38.09brlcadstevegt_1: there is an overview on the website that explains the rt view*.c interface
13:39.19brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/w/images/3/3d/Application_Development.pdf  (found under http://brlcad.org/wiki/Developing_applications )
13:39.48brlcadstevegt_1: basically it amounts to about a half-dozen callbacks that you define and register
13:40.45brlcadahh, reading more of the backlog, I see you found that pdf already
13:42.38brlcadso probably just asking questions in here is your best bet if you don't quickly make sense of the code -- each of those view*.c files is for a separate application like rt, rtarea, rtweight, rtcheck, etc ..
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13:43.55brlcadthose half-dozen or so callbacks are all that is needed to define the entire application as the rt user interface is exactly the same across all of them for the front-end (argument processing, shooting a grid of primary rays, aggregating results, running in parallel, etc)
13:56.28brlcadcase local folks don't see the e-mail or if others are close by and want to join up, we're looking to have dinner at Tidewater tonight in Havre de Grace, Maryland around 6pm
13:56.48starseekerah, thanks :-)
13:56.54brlcadGMTA
13:57.18brlcad~seen madant
13:57.21ibotmadant <n=cb7baf0f@bz.bzflag.bz> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 1d 5h 16m 20s ago, saying: '~sleep'.
14:30.56CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Tbrowder 07http://brlcad.org * r1502 10/wiki/BRL-CAD%27s_core_C%2B%2B_interface: /* Application Domain */
14:31.48CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Tbrowder 07http://brlcad.org * r1503 10/wiki/BRL-CAD%27s_core_C%2B%2B_interface: /* The interface should be self-contained */
15:34.08CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34841 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/expand.c: Modify ged_expand to return only database entries that match the pattern(s).
15:37.55brlcadwoot!
15:38.05brlcadgo go gadget tom
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15:43.36jdolinerhey guys can someone give me a hand with ON_SimpleArrays?
15:44.00jdolinerparticularly for somereason when I try to use them I get compile errors that there's no match found for [] operators
15:44.49jdolinerON_SimpleArray<ON_Line> segments;
15:45.48jdolinerand then
15:45.48jdolinerON_Line segment = segments[j];
15:45.52jdolinercreates an error
16:40.50CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r34842 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (brepintersect.cpp brepintersect.h): Added function TriangleMeshIntersect which intersects a triangle with a mesh and returns as a polyline their intersection curve
17:01.40brlcadjdoliner: it returns a reference
17:02.01brlcadtype have a type error
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17:03.51jdolinerso segments is of type ON_SimpleArray<ON_Line>&?
17:04.04jdolinerthen how to I get at its contents?
17:04.37brlcadno, see the header, it returns a T&
17:04.46brlcadso needs to be an ON_Line&
17:05.15brlcadassuming the type problem isn't on the j
17:05.16jdolinerokay that makes sense then
17:06.46jdolinerk cool I get it now
17:26.32CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r34843 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/brepintersect.cpp: Modified TriangleMeshIntersect to be MeshMeshIntersect, now just directly intersects two meshes and returns an array of Polylines for their intersection
17:49.06CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34844 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ (33 files in 4 dirs): Added the first installment of the undo functionality (i.e. only handling mods to existing geometry) to Archer. More to follow for create, destroy and rename.
17:50.00brlcadwonders how much of the hackery that involved..
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18:23.30CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Jdoliner 07http://brlcad.org * r1504 10/wiki/User:Jdoliner:
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19:45.15brlcadjdoliner: curious what your current goal/milestone is
19:46.00jdolinermy current goal is to finish mesh on mesh intersections
19:46.13brlcadON_Mesh objects are all polygonal, yes?
19:46.18jdolineryes
19:46.52brlcadthey are all untrimmed?
19:47.08brlcador do they allow/require trimming evaluation?
19:47.16jdolinerI believe that they are untrimmed
19:47.30jdolinerat least nowhere in the definition do I say any mention of trimming
19:47.38brlcadokay cool -- there is a problem with one of your intersection routines if you allow trims
19:48.34jdolinerI see, actually I guess this is a good time for me to learn some things about trims
19:48.50jdolinerso meshes don't have trims which works well
19:49.18jdolinerso the way I see it, is that I do an intersection
19:49.20brlcadone thing that will be very interesting to test then once you have mesh on mesh intersections working is having an nmg->ON_Mesh conversion to perform the booleans using your routines instead of the (extensively complex) NMG library
19:50.07jdolineryeah definitely
19:50.26jdolinerso then after the intersection I get back the polyline
19:51.09jdolinerand then I basically need to just make a new mesh where I trim off the parts outside of the polyline
19:52.41jdolinerbut when I do stuff with nurbs, which support trimming curves I can just put them in as trimming curves
19:52.57brlcadright
19:52.58jdolinerand then my intersection algorithms need to take into account the trimming curves
19:53.13brlcadplus you'll have to deal with more generalized ON_Brep objects, not just ON_Mesh objects
19:53.16brlcadin order to get nurbs
19:53.20jdolineryes
19:53.36jdolinerwhat does ON do with the trimming curves
19:53.45jdolinerare they just used in rendering
19:54.06brlcada good test case might be to take the cube that is produced by breplicator or brep_test in src/proc-db, make a copy of it, translated slightly so it overlaps corners, then evaluate a boolean
19:54.48brlcadthe trimming curves are part of the topological structure, they define the actual edge to a given surface
19:54.49jdolineror is there some function which actually sort of freezes the nurbs in their trimmed form
19:55.04brlcadthere is not (that I"m aware of)
19:55.13jdolinerk I'll poke around
19:55.36brlcadit would be useful to have a routine that took a given ON_Brep and evaluated all trims to give a resulting object that is trim-free
19:55.44brlcador at least only outer trims
19:56.24brlcadso there is a 1-1 relationship with trims to edges, each edge corresponding to a curve you can test against
19:56.59jdolinerokay, that makes sense
19:58.19brlcadjdoliner: also, if you've not read it yet, this may be of some assistance organizationally
19:58.23brlcadhttp://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/doc/TODO.BREP
19:58.40brlcadhas all of the various pairwise evaluation possibilities
20:01.42jdolinerI see, are all those things unimplemented?
20:03.36brlcadoh no, much is, much isn't .. some IS implemented (particularly for polygonal types), but for different (non-opennurbs) data types
20:04.24brlcadsome is very robust to numerical issues, some isn't -- it's a very large body of code that gets involved when you start talking about existing brep work
20:08.48brlcadcode of relevance is src/librt/primitives/nmg (extensive polygonal mesh CSG library, radial-edge data structure),   src/librt/primitives/bspline (old nurbs implementation, lacking support for trimmed nurbs surfaces), src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp and src/librt/primitives/brep (active new nurbs development)
20:09.37brlcadsuggest at least taking a look at the nmg routines as they strongly relate to what you're doing with ON_Mesh
20:13.51jdolineryes will do immediately
20:17.14brlcadnmg_evaluate_boolean() is particularly relevant, starting in src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_eval.c
20:18.38brlcadas you are going to end up with some sort of similar routine hopefully to evaluate two ON_Brep objects
20:26.22CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34845 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/opennurbs_ext.h src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp): added NEAR_MISS points to hitlist, hitlist logic being worked
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21:22.21CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34846 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp:
21:22.27CIA-32BRL-CAD: Try to add a printout message that will detail the type of odd hit count
21:22.34CIA-32BRL-CAD: behavior being observed - for reasons not quite clear, the reporting isn't doing
21:22.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: what I expected it to - it's not reporting close points at all and only
21:22.44CIA-32BRL-CAD: occasionally reporting entering/leaving status.
21:36.02starseekerindianlarry: am I doing something wrong with printing out the hit info?
21:39.58CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r34847 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: Added human geometry generator item
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22:07.25madantwhat is the  bn or bu random number generating function which i could use as an id
22:23.14Ralithbrlcad: thanks—hopefully it won't come up again.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090623

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090623

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01:57.36CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34848 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: added new variables to brep_hit copy constructor
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03:46.55stevegt_1~seen brlcad
03:46.57ibotbrlcad is currently on #bzflag (15d 13h 6m 36s) #brlcad (15d 13h 6m 36s). Has said a total of 448 messages. Is idling for 7h 9m 47s, last said: 'cygal: I'd abort -- it shouldn't take that long'.
03:47.09stevegt_1~ralith
03:47.14stevegt_1~seen ralith
03:47.15ibotralith is currently on #brlcad (1d 7h 54m 27s). Has said a total of 82 messages. Is idling for 5h 24m 1s, last said: 'brlcad: thanks—hopefully it won't come up again.'.
03:47.15Ralithsup
03:47.21stevegt_1whup -- hi
03:48.37stevegt_1ralith: still looking through src/rt/* -- i'm trying to figure out how to get a vector toolpath during or after processing ray hits...
03:49.12stevegt_1raster is obvious, vector has me stumped so far
03:50.44Ralithstevegt_1: what do you mean by raster and vector?
03:50.55Raliththose terms don't really apply.
03:51.24stevegt_1raster == e.g. .bw, .pix, .jpg etc.
03:51.31Raliththose aren't toolpaths
03:51.32Raliththose are images
03:52.04stevegt_1vector == primitive edges
03:52.12Ralithprimitive edges?
03:52.15Ralithwhat do you mean by that?
03:52.43stevegt_1hm
03:52.45louipc~seen louipc
03:52.46ibotlouipc is currently on #brlcad (2h 5m 56s). Has said a total of 1 messages. Is idling for 1s, last said: '~seen louipc'.
03:52.53louipclaffs
03:53.33stevegt_1vector as in svg, dxf
03:53.52stevegt_1g-code, laser etc. need vectors
03:56.08Ralithstevegt_1: what do you mean by 'vectors'?
03:56.31Ralithrt will quite happily give you precise coordinates.
03:57.13stevegt_1a vectorized shape description -- like a sketch
03:57.40stevegt_1or an arb?
03:57.47Raliththat's a circular definition...
03:58.00stevegt_1im trying here  ;-)
03:58.17stevegt_1okay, let's look at it this way:  
03:58.19Ralithperhaps you mean you want to extract arcs?
03:58.32stevegt_1ahh -- yes, arcs
03:58.34Ralithall g-code can represent is lines and arcs.
03:58.38stevegt_1right
03:59.09Raliththat's nontrivial, because lines and arcs cannot exactly represent many possible region slices.
04:00.19stevegt_1for a laser or CNC router, we need exactly one slice, aligned with the plane of the part we're cutting out
04:00.30Ralithyou can use arcs to more closely approximate curves than you could with lines, but it's still an approximation unless you get lucky and the curve happens to be precisely circular.
04:00.59Raliththe level of the approximation is up to you.
04:01.20Raliththe raytracer provides sufficient information to perform this approximation; jonored implemented it, but I couldn't tell you how it's done.
04:01.28stevegt_1some sort of successive approximation?
04:01.42stevegt_1that's the only thing i've been able to think of so far
04:03.19stevegt_1googles for clues about what jonored was doing
04:04.54Ralith~seen jonored
04:07.27ibotjonored <n=jonored@dsl092-076-134.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 63d 8h 33m 20s ago, saying: '...er... wrong project. the brlcad database, not the reprap... wrong project I want to work on.'.
04:07.50stevegt_1heh
04:16.04Raliththat took a while
04:20.57stevegt_1i'm getting a creeping feeling that the most direct route to what i want might be to generate the shapes further upstream, probably in a python script, handle constraints etc there, then use brl-cad for rendering and interference checking, and finally generate the toolpath from the upstream output, rather than from brl-cad
04:21.14stevegt_1which is probably what others are doing
04:21.39stevegt_1darnit
04:22.38stevegt_1the closest i'm seeing to what jonored was doing was his mention in the IRC channel of not being able to work on his 2009 gsoc proposal
04:23.23stevegt_1those proposals aren't online anywhere?  (just the ideas and the accepted ones?  at least that's all i'm finding so far..)
04:23.57Ralithstevegt_1: I suspect you vastly underestimate the difficulty of evaluating CSG.
04:24.34Ralithreliably and precisely, anyway
04:25.00stevegt_1not underestimating -- if i were to do things upstream, then i'd have to manually say "okay, a hole needs to go here so this other rod can pass through"
04:25.08stevegt_1so not even trying to evaluate in that case  ;-)
04:25.24RalithI don't follow
04:26.32stevegt_1like this: if all you've got is 2-d tools, qcad, autocad, whatever, then you have to manually do the booleans, calculate part fit, try to keep it all in your head
04:26.55Ralithafaik there are no 'others'; anybody currently generating toolpaths from brlcad models is almost certainly doing so with third party tools after exporting to another format (e.g. stl)
04:29.42stevegt_1i figured that too -- but that loses info on the way through of course
04:29.42Ralithif all you've got is 2d tools, I don't think there's yet any way to get meaningful data from BRL-CAD to them anyway, short of writing your own tool.
04:29.44stevegt_1other way around -- sketch in qcad, import into brl-cad, extrude, repeat
04:29.45Raliththat should be feasible; there appears to be a dxf importer.
04:29.47stevegt_1then use rtcheck for interference checking to find out where you screwed up  ;-)
04:31.18Ralithrtcheck?
04:31.24stevegt_1the dxf importer seems to work -- the only thing i haven't been able to figure out os the right way to use 'extrude' -- it's not shown in the pdf tutorials, and the wiki seems to disagree with the code and/or usage statement
04:31.30stevegt_1s/os/is/
04:31.42Ralithsomeone in here probably knows
04:31.44stevegt_1rtcheck -- checks for overlaps; it's great
04:31.51Ralithalso check the reference card, and the built-in help
04:31.59pacman87stevegt_1: do you already have the sketch?
04:32.01Raliththat's not what my manpage says...
04:32.02pacman87for the extrude
04:32.04Ralith<PROTECTED>
04:32.14stevegt_1pacman87!!!  someone else is awake!
04:32.30pacman87hi
04:32.36pacman87reads the backlog
04:33.08Ralithperhaps it's used for something else in mged.
04:33.35pacman87can you summarize what you're trying to do?
04:33.52stevegt_1goes to see if he's completely confused about the name of that command
04:34.12pacman87dxf -> sketch -> extrude?
04:37.06stevegt_1is not crazy
04:37.24stevegt_1unless i'm completely misinterpreting the results of mged's rtcheck
04:37.31Ralithshrugs
04:37.32RalithI've never used it
04:37.38stevegt_1pacman87:   yes, dxf -> sketch -> extrude
04:37.53pacman87and where does the problem start?
04:38.08stevegt_1lemme go get an error message...
04:38.16pacman87(and the command that caused it)
04:43.30stevegt_1pacman87:  i think i'm probably having basic usage confusion as much as anything else -- ' extrude sketch.1 5' errors out wanting the user to be in SOL EDIT state, but if I say 'sed sketch.1', it pops up the gui sketch editor... then if i say 'extrude sketch.1 5' again, it still says i'm in VIEWING state
04:44.06stevegt_1i obviously haven't done enough of the tutorials, to begin with
04:44.31pacman87oh, i'm using classic mode
04:44.35stevegt_1ah
04:44.47pacman87so i just do "in <name> extrude"
04:44.51pacman87and it promps for the fields
04:45.08stevegt_1lemme try that
04:49.19pacman87the dxf-g converter used to double the line segments (one going each direction), but i think that's been fixed
04:50.12stevegt_1notes that the 'extrude' command and the 'extrude' primitive are completely different
04:50.17stevegt_1i think
04:50.29pacman87i only know of the primitive
04:50.31pacman87what's the command do?
04:50.50stevegt_1the command just wants 2 args:  'extrude {face} {distance}'
04:50.59stevegt_1much simpler  ;-)
04:51.02Ralithyeah, that probably doesn't have anything to do with sketches.
04:51.07stevegt_1if i could get it to work  ;-)
04:51.19Ralithconsidering that sketches don't have faces.
04:51.37pacman87what primitive results from the extrude command?
04:53.13stevegt_1pacman87:  the wiki says it 'modifies an ARB'  -- ahh, yes, that won't work on sketches
04:53.23stevegt_1i think
04:53.56pacman87yeah, so it take the edge points from and ARB, and uses that as the base for (i'm guessing) another ARB
04:54.04pacman87s/from and/from an/
04:54.39Ralithstevegt_1: think about it; sketche don't have faces.
04:54.44Ralithsketches*
04:56.01stevegt_1Ralith: i seem to remember seeing the code accepting a sketch as one of its args, but can't find it ATM...  hang on, gotta put a 6-year-old to bed...
05:01.04Ralithbrb
05:05.14pacman87bedtime for me
05:13.39Ralithback
05:31.32stevegt_1back -- nope, the mged extrude doesn't take sketches, wants an arb face -- don't know what code I was looking at the other day
05:37.56Ralithso see what you can do with in
05:43.58stevegt_1yep
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12:21.48starseekergrowls - rebuilding gentoo sucks...
12:29.24louipchehe still on that train eh?
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12:55.17_clock_starseeker: I can understand this rebuilding my gentoo sucked so much that I swapped to another distro
13:06.41louipc_clock_++
13:25.08starseekertried that
13:25.14starseekersucked more than rebuilding
13:37.48mafm_debian ftw!
13:39.11louipcstarseeker: what distros?
13:39.25louipcnot ubuntu! :D
13:39.57starseekeryeah, ubuntu
13:40.19starseekerhas finely tweaked his desktop settings over the years, and ubuntu has its own ideas
13:40.48louipcyeah debian is probably better
13:41.20louipcI would plug arch linux though :P
13:46.36brlcadbsd ftw ;)
14:02.08CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r34849 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c: (log message trimmed)
14:02.10CIA-32BRL-CAD: Made significant updates to the human.c file which will eventually be a complete human generator that
14:02.13CIA-32BRL-CAD: uses CSG to model a human.
14:02.15CIA-32BRL-CAD: human.c currently creates a 'stick' human to a desired height by use of command line parameters and also
14:02.18CIA-32BRL-CAD: allows for the output of specifically named .g file when using the -o command on input.
14:02.22CIA-32BRL-CAD: Also included are most of the bounding blocked for each part of the generated body by using the -b command.
14:02.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: So if you wanted to make a 'human' right now, the command would be...
14:10.24louipccrazy
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14:52.37CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r34850 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c: Added bounding box support to each of the hands.
14:59.47CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34851 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_open.c: Fixed a bug in db_sync (i.e. it was possible to return without releasing a semaphore).
15:19.44CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34852 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged.c: Modify ged_open() to create a dbip if a NULL one is passed in.
15:25.59CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34853 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Now using inmem database for the ledger.
15:34.23starseekerbrlcad: figuring out the bsd install would talk some time, and figuring out the new config file locations would take more :-P
15:34.28starseekeris getting old...
15:39.14brlcad'scuses 'scuses
15:40.38starseekerwas actually crazy enough to consider opensolaris for a second...
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16:38.00CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r34854 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c:
16:38.02CIA-32BRL-CAD: Added section that creates regions out of all the body parts and all the bounding boxes, aptly named
16:38.05CIA-32BRL-CAD: Body.r and Boxes.r
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17:03.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34855 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: binary installer for windows is missing external dependency headers (specifically need tcl and openNURBS headers)
17:06.43CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34856 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob implemented initial undo support for archer using in-memory geometry and a ledger of changes.
17:15.30*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-75-169.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
17:41.21brlcadhello jdoliner, how goes the progress?  make sense of nmg?
17:54.29jdolineryeah I got the basic idea of nmg
17:55.26jdolinerI have a weird problem right now
17:59.42jdolinerso I've written a test for my meshmeshintersection algorithm
18:00.12jdolinerand it seems good
18:01.18jdolinerexcept when I call it. control goes into ON_Mesh::ON_Mesh function and after it completes that it just hangs
18:01.37jdolinerI feel like there's something I'm not getting here
18:28.03stevegt_1~seen Ralith
18:28.08ibotralith is currently on #brlcad (1d 22h 35m 20s). Has said a total of 120 messages. Is idling for 12h 50m 13s, last said: 'so see what you can do with in'.
18:36.57stevegt_1needs a sanity check before he dives into writing something called 'g-laser'
18:37.31stevegt_1i think i have an algorithm that will work for generating laser toolpaths, but i'm new to brl-cad and might be missing something important
18:41.49stevegt_1i'm thinking:  since popular lasers (like the epilog) are 3dof machines, the beam will always be perpendicular to the part being cut
18:42.35stevegt_1that greatly simplifies trying to figure out the profile of any edges created by booleans
18:43.50stevegt_1since these lasers can only do vertical hole walls, that means the primitives intersecting the part must have 'top' faces which are also normal to the beam
18:44.22stevegt_1which means we can derive a clean toolpath directly from that 'top' face of the intersecting primitive
18:44.37stevegt_1without tesselation or other approximation
18:49.53stevegt_1this means cones, toruses, spheres, etc. can't be used to make coles in laser-cut parts, nor can complicated arbs (e.g. mushroom-shaped -- can brl-cad even do those?), but imho that's a reasonable constraint
18:50.05stevegt_1<crickets chirping>  ;-)
18:50.53stevegt_1i'll probably write this up on a web page somewhere and pop in here again later -- i gotta unplug for an hour or so pretty soon
18:51.06jdolinerhi I don't know enough about your project yet to really comment. But I am working on CSG algorithms which is maybe related
18:51.15jdolinerso maybe if you explain at a lower level I can help
18:51.16stevegt_1hi jdoliner
18:52.22stevegt_1goes to look at what jdoliner's working on
18:54.31stevegt_1(still reading)
18:57.03stevegt_1jdoliner: okay, done reading/skimming your proposal -- the output of the algorithm is a bezier curve?
18:57.31jdolineryeah
18:57.37jdolinerbasically
18:57.45jdolinerthat bezier curve becomes a trimming curve
18:58.09stevegt_1as in something that could be stated as a primitive in gcode or dxf?
18:58.39stevegt_1(as opposed to tesselation)
18:58.50jdolineryeah I believe so
18:59.16jdolinerit can be stated as an ON_NurbsSurface object
18:59.16stevegt_1if that's true, then halleluyah, or somesuch
18:59.37stevegt_1s/tesselation/tessellation/   ;-)
19:01.46stevegt_1the need for that algorithm is where i was hung up on the toolpath-generation problem -- i could see that some thorny math would be required, but the closest i'd be able to get is by trying to duplicate what librt does in solving quadratics or something -- and i barely made it through Calc II, 25 years ago  ;-)
19:03.28stevegt_1something that algorithm will be needed to generate toolpaths for machines which have more that 3 axes -- i.e. if the machine can tilt the cutting tool, or otherwise do over/undercuts in holes and at the sides of a part
19:03.37stevegt_1s/something/something like/
19:06.14stevegt_1anyway, i *think* i can cheat in the case of 3-axis machines like lasers, since they can only do vertical-walled cuts -- just constrain the intersecting primitives to have faces that are perpendicular to the part being cut
19:11.36*** join/#brlcad stevegt`` (n=stevegt@cislunar.TerraLuna.Org)
19:13.30stevegt_1jdoliner: i gotta go get lunch; i'll try to write this up and be back later
19:14.06jdolineryeah, particularly if you get hung up on thorny math I can try to give you a hand with ti
19:14.25jdolinerit**
19:14.31stevegt_1i'm pretty sure you could  ;-)
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19:42.35CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34857 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/libged/libged.vcproj: Added cc.c and lscon.c to build.
20:03.22CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34858 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (brlcad/brlcad.sln g2adrt/): Removed g-adrt from windows build.
20:13.43CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34859 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ (Archer.tcl ArcherCore.tcl): Removed a bit of leftovers from the previous edit history hack.
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21:19.39brlcadjdoliner: hm, hard to say without walking the execution or knowing more info about the ON_Mesh::ON_Mesh problem -- have you tried stepping through with a debugger?
21:20.47jdolineryeah gdb's really been the flavor of the afternoon :)
21:20.56brlcadstevegt_: mushroom-shaped arbs??  picture of one?
21:21.08brlcadjdoliner: heh, awesome
21:21.23jdolinerit was something weird with initializing ON_Meshes
21:21.39jdolinerbut I switch the function to use pointers instead
21:21.42jdolinerand that cleared it up
21:22.15jdolinerwhich in all honesty probably makes more sense because I imagine meshes can get big
21:25.32brlcadthey can get huge, Gigs
21:27.54brlcadstevegt_: sorry we keep failing to cross paths :)
21:28.05stevegt_brlcad:  right here  ;-)
21:28.23stevegt_other than the mushrooms, did the rest of what i was saying make sense?
21:33.13stevegt_overall, what i'm trying to do is pick a cad package for designing and generating toolpaths for making low-end machines that have a laser-cut acrylic parts, and are otherwise built from bolt-together things off the shelf -- motors, lead screws, fasteners, etc
21:33.16stevegt_like http://fabathome.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
21:33.39brlcadRalith: rtcheck's primary purpose is interference (aka overlap) detection with a side-effect of overlaying a plot of the overlaps if you run it in mged (yes the help line is misleading)
21:34.09stevegt_brlcad: good, i wasn't insane that time  ;-)
21:36.04brlcadstevegt_: docs are pretty thin on extrude, but it's really pretty simple to extrude a sketch -- run the 'in' command in mged and it'll interactively prompt you
21:37.11brlcadah, and yes, there is an 'extrude' command which is different than creating an extrude primitive -- you don't want the extrude command, you want the 'in' command
21:37.13stevegt_brlcad:  so i gathered; i haven't figured out what some of the prompts are asking yet, but i'm sure that'll be obvious by the time i get used to the way brl-cad does things
21:38.41stevegt_s/low-end machines that have a laser-cut acrylic parts/low-end machines that have a lot of laser-cut acrylic parts/
21:38.49brlcadah, all caught up with the log now :)
21:39.03brlcadyes, the rest you said made sense (i think!) :)
21:40.12brlcadbasically it asks you what scaling factors do you want (you can skew/stretch the sketch before extruding it) and then the distance
21:40.35brlcadusually best to just use orthogonal unit vectors, 1 0 0 and 0 1 0
21:41.01brlcadthat aligns the sketch normalized to an x/y plane like one would usually expect be default
21:42.11brlcadthat's a pretty cool machine, hmm.. :)
21:42.13stevegt_anyway, i *think* i'm in a common use case for the newer crowd of maker community, arduino controllers, fabbers, people who might have access to a laser or CNC router, and are looking for something more capable than qcad for modelling the machines -- so something like 'g-laser' seems like a good idea, just trying to figure out how doable it is
21:42.47stevegt_so 'in ... extrude' wants a sketch?  lemme go try it again...
21:42.53brlcadg-gcode is something that's been on the "todo" for a while :)
21:43.41brlcadyeah, 'in' is the interactive input tool for creating primitives .. you can feed it the whole line or parts of a line and for any part remaining it'll prompt you
21:44.46stevegt_yeah, i'm saying to myself "wow, brl-cad is great!!"  and i'm going through the tutorials, and then it hits me -- right now, it seems to be optimized for importing and analyzing models, rather than making them -- unless you are using STL e.g. 3-d printing?
21:45.14stevegt_s/making them/making things from them/
21:45.16brlcadthe real solution to what you want is very much related to jdoliner's project where you evaluate a given object (regardless of geometry format, csg or non-csg) to a spline-surface boundary representation that has no booleans, then project that to a given plane
21:45.46brlcadgives you a series of 2D spline curves and line segments that could them be turned into arcs and polylines or what have you
21:45.46stevegt_i agree -- for generic gcode for a 3 or more axis mill, you need jdoliner's stuff
21:47.23brlcadwhat you intuited about brl-cad is quite true -- it's presently heavily geared around import and analysis requirements .. but also visualization and creation (but a very different approach than most commercial systems)
21:48.00stevegt_the light bulb this morning was that, since a lot of these potential users (including me) are just using lasers, then i can just ensure via raytracing that hole walls are vertical, and then directly derive the dimensions of the hole by looking at the top face of the intersecting shape -- i think ;-)
21:49.30jdolinerstevegt_: whenever you need me I'm here to help
21:49.36stevegt_i plan to generate a lot of parts from scripts in the first place, so brl-cad fits with that usage as well
21:49.39brlcadfor nearly two decades, brl-cad has been used (with the csg approach) to model vehicles down to the nut bolt and wire using CSG boolean operations and primitives -- many things are considerably more efficient that way over BREP methods, but it's definitely a very different way of thinking about things and a large body of experience that has to be built up -- but once you do, the advanced brl-cad modelers are just as effective in brl-cad as they are in other com
21:50.54brlcadstevegt_: you know, if you're ray-tracing, it's not a whole lot extra logic to make it derive that top-hole using ray-tracing to a given tolerance using adaptive subdivision
21:51.14stevegt_goes and looks up "adaptive subdivision" ;-)
21:51.27brlcadthat would let you extract a contour for any arbitrary view
21:52.12stevegt_is that more or less what the tessellation routines do?
21:52.27brlcadnot at all
21:52.38stevegt_i see 'curves' in the description...
21:52.51brlcadit's basicaly a sampling approach, you sample down to a specified level of detail
21:54.33stevegt_is that related to the use of voxel spaces?
21:54.40brlcadthink of it this way.. you shoot a grid of rays and find the edges of an object .. but instead of filling in pixels, you build up coefficients for a set of polynomial curves
21:54.53stevegt_ah
21:55.34brlcadsampled sufficiently, you'll derive a spline that fits to the circular top of a cylinder, for example
21:56.06stevegt_is there code anywhere in the brl-cad tree that does something like this right now?
21:56.21brlcadI'm sure you could *very* easily sample at a resolution much higher than the resolution of your fabbers stepper motors :)
21:58.26brlcadhm, the closest starting point is probably rtedge, which simply renders an edge outline (raster) of an object based on neighboring hits -- you'd want to extend that to be calculate the curves
21:58.44brlcadexample, http://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/havoc_rtedge.png.html
21:58.47stevegt_ah ha -- 'adaptive subdivision algorithm' is giving me some good hits in google....
21:59.38stevegt_yeah, i looked at rtedge and got worried that i'd be stuck with raster-like limitations, then popped in last night to bug Ralith about it  ;-)
22:00.24brlcadyeah, just forget about the pix output -- you'd be outputting curves or directly to gcode or whatever
22:00.31stevegt_huh
22:02.00stevegt_i'm wondering if it would be easier to write the code such that it tries to read the hole geometry directly off the top face of the intersecting object, and *then* falls back to adaptive subdivision, or just uses adaptive subdivision always...
22:02.39stevegt_probably the latter, assuming i can figure out how to do it
22:03.31stevegt_the raytracing hits sure are nice to be able to get at
22:06.59brlcadnice example: http://www.museum.state.il.us/ismdepts/library/linuxguides/povray/image112.gif
22:07.26brlcad"adaptive sampling" <- another useful term you can search on
22:08.00stevegt_now has to go back and remember how polynomial curve fitting works -- those brain cells died decades ago :-b
22:09.14Ralithit's not hard
22:09.27brlcadso in that image, where you have a hit neighbored to a miss, you know there's an edge somewhere between those two rays, you adaptively sample to more precisely find that edge -- if you recurse down all edges, you can find a 'perfect' contour from which you can derive coefficients for a representative set of splines
22:10.01stevegt_hi Ralith!  
22:10.04Ralithhullo
22:11.28brlcadanother example, http://www.lamrug.org/resources/images/samples/samples.03d.jpg
22:12.48brlcaddone well enough, you end up with an rtvector .. from which you could output svg or gcode or pdf or whatever format ;)
22:13.15stevegt_brlcad: that sounds like it might be successive approximation -- do you ultimately compare the polynomial-generated curve with the original edge, or is the algorithm open-loop?  (if that makes sense)
22:14.06stevegt_(i'm still skimming papers from citeseer)
22:14.54brlcadyes, it's a way to get a successive approximation
22:15.24brlcadthere is no "original edge" to compare it to, you're deriving a representation for that edge
22:15.55brlcadyou just keep refining until you're below a specified accuracy level (ideally below your machine's capabilities)
22:16.13brlcadso even if there is error, it's never realized
22:17.32*** part/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-75-169.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
22:17.55stevegt_the way you're envesioning this working, is it iterative?    or am i missing some direct way to get from ray hits to coefficients?
22:18.34stevegt_s/envesioning/envisioning/
22:18.51brlcadhere we go, even better
22:19.29brlcadit's basically an implementation of marching cubes with adaptive subsampling, but in 2D (i.e., marching squares with adaptive subsampling)
22:19.33brlcadhttp://www.exaflop.org/docs/marchcubes/
22:19.53stevegt_funny -- march cubes was one of the links i saw a few minutes ago
22:19.55brlcadand yes, it is iterative
22:19.56stevegt_goes to look
22:20.48brlcadthat page even speaks to the sampling issues, good stuff
22:21.58brlcadjust when reading, you're working in 2D so read it as s/cubes/squares/ and s/polygons/line segments/ (for starters)
22:22.03stevegt_ok, yes, they're talking about voxel spaces...
22:22.19brlcadvoxel spaces are for 3D
22:22.28stevegt_...and they're using polygons instead of curves, but i'm grokking it
22:23.04brlcadright, the even mention that near the end -- that's basically applying smoothing algorithm to derive a curve
22:23.36stevegt_saw that -- and you're picturing polynomial curve segments instead of straight line segments
22:24.24brlcadyeah, only because I don't think many machines would be robust with millions of sub-millimeter line segments that would be required to describe a smooth curve
22:24.48brlcadwould expect aliasing artifacts
22:25.36brlcadinterpolate a curve and simplify (e.g., identify and make curves that are linear actually just be line segmenets)
22:25.48stevegt_okay, i think i can do this -- the way my brain works, i'm probably going to wind up re-deriving a lot of the algorithm, but to me it looks familiar when i think of it in the class of successive approximation, binary search, interpolation, etc.
22:29.18stevegt_just don't make me solve quadratics  ;-)
22:31.34brlcadadaptive marching squares, tis good stuff ;)
22:41.00CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34860 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/parallel.c: ws indent cleanup
22:53.23CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34861 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/parallel.c:
22:53.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: make sure the file is actually world read/writable like we said it would be,
22:53.27CIA-32BRL-CAD: call bu_fchmod(). that said, this is a horrible way to do this. mark the
22:53.35CIA-32BRL-CAD: implementation as deprecated even if it's not likely anyone is relying on the
22:53.37CIA-32BRL-CAD: temp files and rtsrv is the only brl-cad tool that can leverage this.
22:54.04stevegt_brlcad: while i'm only going to write something like g-laser, g-toolpath2d, or whatever ("marching squares"), it does strike me that the marching cubes could be used to generate gcode suitable for N-axis mills
22:55.27stevegt_<lightbulb on> and the raytracing lib could be used to fire rays at various angles to test the approache angle of the tool itself, make sure it doesn't hit anything
22:55.37stevegt_s/approache/approach/
22:59.45brlcadyep
23:01.02brlcadthe exact approach you're using it 2D extends very well to 3D -- hell, with the 3D approach, that's a viable alternative for a variety of purposes including visualization, tessellation, and evaluation
23:01.37brlcadthe problem is that it's not nearly as robust for all uses (e.g. visualization) where you can continue to "zoom in" and start to see the artifacts
23:01.46brlcadworks well for hardware though
23:02.12stevegt_that would really go far in cleaning up the CNC tool chain -- where I sit right now (middle of silly valley) there are about 900 CNC mills with a 1-mile radius; we've gotten to know a few of them over the last several years; they are all still very labor-intensive when it comes to massaging the dxf they get from the customer and generating the gcode
23:03.03brlcadto make sure the tool doesn't hit anything, something ala rtcheck or g_qa would work great by just having them represent the tool as geometry and test for overlap
23:03.42brlcadcool that you're interested in this, look forward to seeing what you make of it
23:03.51brlcadthe idea has been around for a while, just nobody to work it
23:04.35brlcadlots of squeaky wheels that require attention, like better modeling interface, better interactive visualization, step conversion support, full hybrid nurbs brep support, etc ;)
23:05.41stevegt_i've been interested in this ever since I was in the USAF in the early 80's, and saw how far we (still) are from being able to "print metal" -- it really drives up the cost of everything
23:07.50stevegt_whups -- s/early 80's/late 80's/  -- i'm not *that* far gone yet  ;-)
23:08.56brlcadheh
23:11.36CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34862 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (primitives/table.c wdb.c): ws indent consistency
23:19.28stevegt_makes himself stop and go get (very late) lunch
23:24.04CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34863 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (7 files in 6 dirs): break out arb8 mirroring, modify all the mirror function signatures to not take a pointer, instead just taking a plant_t
23:25.33*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14F13C.dip.t-dialin.net)
23:25.47CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34864 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/ (2 files in 2 dirs): add arb8_mirror.c to the other windows build files
23:41.08CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34865 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/:
23:41.10CIA-32BRL-CAD: remove the vc9 project files as they've gotten considerably out of sync without
23:41.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: a maintainer. there are more than 163 differences with the vc8 project.
23:41.14CIA-32BRL-CAD: someone can revive and resync if they're willing to maintain it, otherwise it's
23:41.18CIA-32BRL-CAD: just a costly maintenance burden and confusing to users.
23:43.32*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-196.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
23:49.59``Erikwould it be easy to generate vc9 files from the vc8 ones?
23:50.33``Erik(or mebbe solicit the mailing list for a vc9 volunteer?)
23:54.06starseekerglares at gentoo - I might have known - a non-clean config path upgrade
23:54.30starseekerfirst rule of Xorg building - never,never,NEVER build a configuration that won't work
23:54.58starseekeroh, well - I was due for a scrub anyway, but GRRRRRRRR
23:55.52``Erikpkg_add x11/Xorg on bsd, binary install of all the right stuff, then you can portupgrade at your leisure with automatic failure recovery and 'last good state' saved just in case
23:57.05``Erikthrow in the normal bsd nerd approach of putting edited config files in cvs or rcs and you have a system very very hard to fuck up for more than 2 minutes
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090624

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090624

00:05.25starseekerwow... it looks like they're trying to lay the ground work for modernizing how Xorg and hardware autodetection (hal) work together
00:06.56starseekerfigures... I upgrade, get power failure, reboot with bad config setup...  
00:07.03starseekeryeesh, one of those weeks
00:07.31starseekeroh, well - I guess on the bright side I didn't get killed by a tornado, so it's all good...
00:20.07starseekerthere we go - ah, X feels good
01:28.48Ralithhm.
01:29.01RalithI can't seem to get a test mesh visible in Ogre-in-Qt :/
01:29.31RalithOgre seems to be working, though; at least, its background color is showing up fine.
01:30.56Ralithmafm: you around?
01:44.00mafmRalith: briefly, almost 4am here and I want to go to bed :)
01:51.39Ralithmafm: ah.  How'd you get that shape thingy to render in ogre?
01:52.03RalithI've got ogre at least apparently rendering, but nothing seems to be visible
01:52.36mafmI had a shape floating around, for testing purposes
01:52.42mafmaren't you using it?
01:52.55Ralithno, I mean how did you get it to actually RENDER?
01:52.58RalithI'm loading a mesh fine.
01:53.22mafmwell, it's been almost a year ago since I did that, I can't remember
01:53.29Ralith'kay
01:53.35mafmprobably you have to put it in a point where you can see it
01:53.51RalithI'm using:
01:53.52Ralith_camera->lookAt(sphereNode->getPosition());
01:53.52mafmI don't think that you need anything special
01:54.00Ralithso I'm pretty sure it's visible
01:54.07indianlarrystarseeker: back up and runnin I see
01:54.08mafmis the camera far away?
01:54.15Ralithshouldn't be
01:54.20Ralithcamera's at 0,0,0 and the sphere's at 10,0,0
01:55.18mafmI meant that if it's inside the sphere (because the sphere has a large radius) probably it's not painting the inside, so you can't see it
01:55.29Ralithcould be
01:55.30mafmtry to get controls working, too
01:55.32Raliths/10/50/
01:55.47mafmI remember to have problems with culling
01:55.50RalithI'm hesitant to do that until I have something to look at, cuz there'd be no way to test
01:56.03RalithI pretty much copypasted the scene setup code from Application.cxx
01:56.14Ralithso any solution you applied should be working here, too.
01:56.30mafmso in some distances, for no obvious reasons, I couldn't see my tetrahedron in action
01:56.49Ralithyeah, nothing visible at 50,0,0 either
01:56.50mafmso I had sometimes to zoom in or out, etc
01:57.27mafmmmm, check if the node is visible, it should have a getter method for that
01:57.45RalithI already force it to visibility
01:58.47RalithI think maybe I'll add the Qt overlay, get a widget up for displaying current camera position/orientation, and then see about enabling controls.
02:03.24mafmyep
02:03.35mafmaren't you using my camera controls?
02:03.51mafmyou can hook it to Qt right away, I think
02:04.00mafmblender mode, mged mode, etc
02:04.21Ralithsince I had to drop RBGui, right now I'm working with a very minimal setup that just tests the Ogre/Qtness.
02:04.30mafmso you would readily have zooming, rotating around the object and so on
02:04.54RalithI'll be bringing your code back in once I get this working and can begin to swap in Qt for the existing stuff.
02:04.57mafmwell, I think that you can use it even without Qt
02:05.08mafmprobably the input is still working
02:05.21mafmit only requires OGRE and OIS, IIRC
02:05.44mafmso you don't really need anything related with GUI to control the camera
02:05.54RalithI'm not init'ing OIS currently, partly due to some weird singleton errors it was causing
02:06.03mafmops :S
02:06.13Ralithand I think Qt provides input, too, so it shouldn't be necessary long-term
02:06.29RalithI'll see if I can wire up Qt's input to your existing camera control stuff, though; good idea thre.
02:06.40Ralithafter I get Qt widgets rendering.
02:12.18mafmI think that my input works directly with OIS, so it would be easier if you get it working
02:12.54mafmalso, I don't know if you can pass the input Qt->OGRE, or you have to get the input in Ogre and pass it over to Qt
02:13.13mafmsince Qt works with OpenGL probably you can
02:17.07Ralithah, crap, looks like I dropped the Ogre stuff in the wrong place
02:19.02Ralithwell, thanks for the input
02:21.59mafmok
02:22.02mafmgood night!
02:22.06Ralithnite!
02:39.12starseekerindianlarry: heh, yep
02:58.36CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34866 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (OgreGLWidget.cxx OgreGLWidget.h OgreScene.cxx OgreScene.h): Moved code Ogre to a subclass of QGraphicsScene, OgreScene, instead of a subclass of QGLWidget, in preparation for drawing Qt GUI elements on top.
03:13.59CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34867 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (OgreScene.cxx OgreScene.h): Removed an unnecessary state-tracking bool and added experimental resize handling.
03:26.06Ralithdamn, Qt stuff isn't working first try :/
03:27.17louipcnot too bad. my shell script doesn't even work first try heheheh
03:28.37Ralithhm
03:28.53CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r34868 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/OgreScene.cxx: Qt test widgets (not yet working)
03:28.56Ralithmaybe my tiling wm is to blame.
03:29.00Ralithneeds to go eat, though
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04:12.21Ralithokay, the widget shows up when Ogre doesn't render anything.
04:24.00Ralithit looks like, somehow, Ogre is rendering on top of the Qt stuff.
04:24.05Ralithanyone here familiar with OpenGL?
04:33.46RalithI need to work out how to force Ogre's rendering to happen *underneath* Qt's.
04:44.27starseekeris this something Qt would need to manage?
04:44.48starseekerI would suggest checking how Qt manages overlapping windows in OpenGL without Ogre being involved
04:48.23Ralithstarseeker: I'm not sure I see what overlapping windows has to do with it.
04:48.36RalithOgre's being drawn in the 'background' of a GraphicsScene
04:48.48Ralithbut somehow it's also ending up on top of the widgets.
04:48.49starseekerhmm
04:49.06RalithI thought generally things drawn first ended up underneath things drawn later?
04:49.14starseekernot sure
04:49.19Ralithmaybe I should clear the depth buffer after drawing Ogre?
04:49.54starseekerwhat happens with a "normal" background in Qt + opengl?
04:50.04starseekerif you change the background I mean
04:50.11Ralithchange?
04:50.27starseekerthat's essentially what Ogre is doing - continually updating the background
04:50.56starseekerif you painted a different color (or something) in the background of a GraphicsScene, does something similar happen?
04:51.06starseekerdoesn't know, just throwing out questions
04:51.31RalithOgre isn't exactly doing anything continuously; it's doing it whenever Qt asks it to draw.
04:51.55Ralithit's Qt-in-Ogre-in-Qt, and the two Qts are actually one Qt, so in theory it should know what's up.
04:52.27RalithI'm doing things very similar to the way they're done in a known-working Qt-in-OpenGL-in-Qt example I have
04:53.02starseekerhmm.
04:54.08Ralithjust instead of calling OpenGL stuff directly in drawBackground, I call ogreRoot->renderOneFrame();
04:54.57starseekerand the render is painting the OpenGL context and overwriting the dialog views?
04:55.13Ralithor something that looks that way.
04:55.25Ralithokay, clearing depth buffer did no good
04:56.07starseekerwhat about calling an explicit repaint (or something like that) for the dialog widgets after the renderOneFrame?
04:57.12RalithI'm pretty sure that already happens.
04:57.17starseekerhmm
04:57.24stevegt_1okay, for the record, lurkers, and irc logs (after struggling with it and digging through the code off and on all afternoon trying to figure out what some of the parms mean), the 'in ... extrude' command to generate extrude primitives can be used like this:
04:57.24Ralithokay, it's def. something that Ogre does
04:57.27stevegt_1in foo.e extrude 0 0 0 0 0 5 1 0 0 0 1 0 sketch.1
04:58.12Ralithstarseeker: if I comment out the Ogre render call and just do glClearColor(...) and glClear(colorbuffer | depthbuffer) I get a white background with my widget on top of it.
04:58.26stevegt_1that's assuming that you want a 5 mm thick extruded sheet in the shape of sketch.1, which in my case was imported from qcad using dxf-g
05:00.07Ralith(when white is my clear color, that is
05:00.33starseekerRalith: probably means renderOneFrame is making some assumption it shouldn't
05:00.41Ralithyeah
05:00.43Ralithbut what :/
05:00.44stevegt_1the '1 0 0 0 1 0' vectors (A and B in the mged prompts, uvec and vvec in the code) are the part of that i haven't yet completely understood -- they control stretching and rotation, but i haven't figured out exactly how yet, so i just used the vectors brlcad mentioned earlier today
05:01.09stevegt_1(we now return you to our regular programming...)
05:01.13Ralithstevegt_1: if you leave the params out it will prompt informatively for them.
05:01.37stevegt_1informatively?!?  it wants "A" and "B"...
05:01.47Ralithhm, maybe not.
05:01.50stevegt_1hee
05:04.02stevegt_1the closest i came to any enlightenment was in Unigraphics/ug-g.c, which makes me think that looking at some Unigraphics docs might explain the history of those two vectors
05:04.54Ralithor just fiddle them and ratyrace and see what it looks like :P
05:05.54starseekerRalith: you probably don't want to hear this, but I would suggest looking at the source of the glClear stuff and renderOneFrame to see what the differences are in how they address the ogl window
05:06.00Ralithstarseeker: here's something interesting; if I render the Ogre stuff then glClear everything, the widgets are *still* not rendered.
05:06.13stevegt_1did that, didn't get a feel for what I was doing
05:06.15Ralith...the source of glClear? I'm pretty sure that's in the drivers >_>
05:06.32starseekerit's not a Qt function?
05:06.39Ralithno, it's an OpenGL function.
05:06.42starseekerah
05:06.55Raliththat's why its results as mentioned above are interesting
05:07.16starseekerif you render Ogre, do a glClear, and then call some sort of Qt redraw event does that restore the widgets?
05:07.22RalithOgre's renderOneFrame does something that makes *all* GL stuff go on top, at least until Qt resets it (it doesn't happen if I only call renderOneFrame once)
05:07.33stevegt_1would have to play with it a while longer, probably while looking at the code
05:07.55Ralithstarseeker: because glClear alone results in the widgets displaying, and based on the aforementioned working example, I think a widget redraw happens automatically.
05:08.14Ralithas I mentioned above, if I render Ogre and then do a glClear, the widgets do NOT display.
05:08.20Ralithso Ogre's setting some OpenGL flag or something.
05:08.53Ralithwonders if there's some way to catch all OpenGL calls ogre makes
05:09.34stevegt_1hint to future self:  play with those 'in ... extrude' vectors in mged while looking at src/librt/primitives/extrude/extrude.c; also see how extrusions are handled in src/conv/*
05:11.15starseekerRalith: is this related?  http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=296902&highlight=&sid=ce193664e1d3d7c4af509e6f4e2718c6
05:13.38Ralithstarseeker: hmm, looks like it might be; I don't know how Qt does its OpenGL, but it could well be immediate mode.
05:17.18starseekerI'm wondering about the last post here, if it's still true in Qt:  http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33065
05:17.33Ralithseems like there must be some way to reenable whatever it is that Ogre disables
05:17.41RalithI mean, if I render a single Ogre frame, Qt manages to recover.
05:17.47Ralithso obviously it's reset somehow.
05:20.19starseekerare the Qt widgets creating their own GL contexts?  I thought it was one shared context, but maybe I'm wrong...
05:20.27Ralithit is one shared context.
05:20.45Raliththis thread is from before Ogre supportes context sharing.
05:23.13Ralithit looks like renderOneFrame is doing extra stuff, though; I'll try finding this RenderTarget;:update thing and using that
05:31.12Ralith:/
05:32.04starseekerno dice?
05:32.28starseekeris wondering about the swapBuffers parameter on RenderTarget::update...
05:32.31Ralithwait...
05:32.33Ralithyeah I'm trying that
05:33.35Ralithyeah, doesn't work
05:33.50Raliththat is, it has the same results as renderOneFrame
05:34.18starseekerhmm.  any chance of asking the ogre forums what's going on?
05:34.34Ralithcould give that a try
05:34.55RalithI think I'll try the approach in that first thread you posted, if I can find some way to manually call the widget update
05:40.19starseekerRalith: is QGLWidget::isSharing important?
05:40.45Ralithdon't think so
05:41.01Raliththat's to do with display lists
05:41.02starseekerthere's also QGLWidget::paintGL and QGLWidget::paintOverlayGL...
05:41.05Ralithgood go dthis example code sucks.
05:41.36RalithI'm not actually touching QGLWidget here; the Ogre stuff is going on in GraphicsScene::drawBackground
05:41.44Ralithwell, a class derived from GraphicsScene
05:41.47starseekererm
05:42.25starseekeroh, right
05:43.10Raliththis guy uses variable and class names that take up almost the entire width of my editor singlehandedly ;_;
05:43.20starseekeryou're doing what this is doing?  http://doc.trolltech.com/qq/qq26-openglcanvas.html ?
05:43.35Ralithyup
05:45.13starseekerso the widgets are QGraphicsItem objects?
05:45.28Raliththey get wrapped in those at some point, I imagine
05:45.39Raliththe whole point is that they can be any QWidget though.
05:47.16starseekeryeah, I'd contact Samuel Rodal and/or ask in the ogre forums
05:48.05starseekerbe right back, must reboot
06:03.01starseekerphew - it worked
06:03.20starseekersets up large packages for overnight rebuild and turns off brain...
06:05.55Ralithheh
06:05.55Ralithnite
06:05.59RalithOgre forum post made.
06:10.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1505 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Log for 2009-06-23
06:52.48CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1506 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Addendum to log for 2009-06-23
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15:14.42CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r34869 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c: Fixed some formatting, and added a hollow bounding box representation
16:28.14CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r34870 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: Added bug in regards to rtedge and perspective viewing
16:34.41CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34871 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/typein.c: Fixed a few cases where the return value should be GED_MORE instead of GED_ERROR.
16:39.20CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34872 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/Makefile.am: msvc9 went byebye
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17:03.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34873 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: more msvc9 removal
17:08.04brlcadoops
17:19.11CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r34874 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS:
17:19.11CIA-32BRL-CAD: Added that rtedge works correctly in non-perspective mode, but still incorrect in
17:19.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: low-res perspective modes
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17:55.50jdolinerdoes anyone know why this is segfaulting?:
17:56.04jdolinerON_SimpleArray<ON_Polyline> answer;
17:56.27jdolinerON_Polyline initial_segment = ON_Polyline();
17:56.27jdolinerinitial_segment.Append(segments.First()->from);
17:56.27jdolinerinitial_segment.Append(segments.First()->to);
17:56.27jdolineranswer.Append(initial_segment);
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18:54.21brlcadjdoliner: not without a debugger
18:54.51jdolineryeah I figured it out
18:57.00jdolinerweird thing during the initialization that was causing it to try to extend the array
20:09.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34875 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/opennurbs_ext.h src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp):
20:09.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: changed tolerance on vertical trim check; added near hit/miss logic to shotline cleanup
20:09.29CIA-32BRL-CAD: but still WIP
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21:53.43m03sizlaki need a high quality 3d model of manhattan
21:54.59Ralithstarseeker: thanks for the participation in the thread
22:39.48starseekerRalith: well, I don't know if it accomplished anything :-/
22:40.05starseekerfigured if it was active it might attract more attention
22:40.08Ralithstarseeker: at the very least, it held the attention of someone knowledgable.
22:40.12Ralithyeah.
22:40.31Ralithand answered an important question
22:42.29starseekerhmm, I can't get the forums to come up - have there been more replies?
22:43.21Ralithnothing of interest, unless you count my own recent post explaining why I'd rather like to make things work within the current setup
22:43.47starseekerah, there we go.
22:43.48Ralithand simplifying the question down to two simple queries
22:44.32Ralithif only there was some simple way to log all OpenGL calls g3d as a whole makes
22:45.13Raliththat way we could see what Qt does to get the context back to a usable state after an Ogre render call
22:45.24Ralithand isolate Qt's own rendering for test purposes
22:45.40starseekerhmm: http://www.opengl.org/sdk/tools/GLIntercept/ ?
22:46.21Ralithwindows only.
22:46.32RalithI don't have any windows devboxes
22:46.43Ralithperhaps I could get someone to log it for me?
22:47.38Ralithbrb
22:47.47starseekerhttp://www.hawksoft.com/gltrace/ claims to have preliminary Linux support
22:48.21Ralithworth a try
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22:49.04starseekerhttp://graphics.stanford.edu/courses/cs448a-01-fall/glsim.html
22:50.23RalithNOTE: trace doesn't seem to work with Linux NVIDIA OpenGL drivers. If you need to make a trace on Linux, use a Linux machine with Mesa drivers.
22:50.26Ralith>:/
22:50.28starseekerhttp://www.opengl.org/sdk/tools/BuGLe/
22:50.46Ralithoh nice
22:51.20starseekerGPL, but usable as a tool I would think (brlcad?)
22:51.26Ralithcertainly
22:51.28Ralithgcc is GPL, after all
22:51.46starseekernods - this is for debugging, not for inclusion anyhow
22:52.01Ralithgrabs some lunch
22:54.54starseekerold, but maybe useful?  http://spyglass.sourceforge.net/
22:55.52brlcadm03sizlak: and I need a high quality model of a lightcycle and a replicator ;)
22:56.44starseekerRalith: yeah, it's looking like most roads lead to BuGLe
22:57.11brlcadokay to use during development, it's not being integrated
22:57.23brlcadthere's also a very powerful opengl debugger on the mac
22:57.43brlcadpart of the performance tools
22:58.42brlcadstill, you should be able to back down to basic qt tests first without having to worry about opengl calls
23:16.51Ralithbrlcad: basic qt tests like what?
23:17.10RalithI've already confirmed that everything works, even rendering OpenGL stuff, when Ogre isn't called.
23:17.27Ralith(including rendering Qt widgets, if that wasn't clear)
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23:17.52starseekerwhat about setting up the "bad" condition (Ogre having futzed up the rendering) and walk through the Qt cycle that restores it?
23:18.01Ralithstarseeker: that's what I was planning to do.
23:18.05starseekernods
23:18.14Ralithonly, save a lot of time by stripping it down to just the OpenGL calls.
23:18.23RalithI guess I could grab a source checkout of Qt and do it the other way, though
23:18.34Ralithmight lead to a tidier fix.
23:18.41starseekerwould recommend that, actually
23:18.54starseekerawareness of Qt source code will probably be a requirement sooner or later...
23:19.16starseekereyes the Tcl/Tk trees living in src/other
23:20.14Ralithlet's not intern Qt
23:20.18Ralith:P
23:20.42starseekerheh :-)
23:20.52starseekerwell, the chips will fall where they need to
23:22.40RalithI'm certainly not checking it in myself after that Ogre mess.
23:22.48starseekerhehe
23:23.14starseekerif it has to be checked in, I'll take a stab at it - only if we need to though
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090625

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090625

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03:33.16Ralithokay, I've tried saving and restoring as much OpenGL state as I can think of
03:33.25Ralithall three buffers, and all the attribs
03:33.27Ralither
03:33.30Ralithall three matrixes
03:33.32Ralither
03:33.33Ralithall four
05:19.24CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r34876 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/brepintersect.cpp: Added integrative test for the entire suite and fixed multiple bugs throughout the entire suite. Still a strange bug with SimpleArrays
10:45.40d-loMerininin all!
11:06.55Ralithmorning
11:07.10d-lohow goes the ogre debacle?
11:07.25Ralithnot terriblywell.
11:07.36Ralithdigging around for some clue as to how to put things back in order for Qt.
11:07.43d-lowhat exactly is the issue with ogre?
11:08.12Ralithit's doing something that interferes with Qt rendering its widgets
11:08.28Ralithevery frame that Ogre renders, the widgets don't show up; when Ogre doesn't render a frame, the widgets show up fine.
11:08.41d-lointeresting.
11:09.08d-lodo you know if the version of ogre that *was* in the repo (aka the one that got nuked) was working?
11:09.16Ralithhuh?
11:09.33Raliththe ogre that *was* in the repo wouldn't have even rendered to Qt's context.
11:09.54Ralithonly the most recent svn versions can do that.
11:10.14d-lokk.  That version of ogre had the 'bug fix' already done.  Just checking to see if its the same bug or a different one.
11:10.23d-loSounds different.
11:10.52Ralithwhat bug fix?
11:11.04Raliththis is the first time we've tried to integrate Qt...
11:11.07d-lodunno.  It was before my time.
11:11.26d-loNot Qt integration.  Previous version of ogree
11:11.29d-loheh, ogre.
11:11.58Raliththe issue only manifests through the issue with Qt integration.
11:12.06d-lothere was *something* wrong with ogre and it needed to have changes done to it.
11:12.09Ralithif I wasn't trying to do that, this version would work fine.
11:12.15d-loroger that.
11:12.20Ralithyeah, that got fixed in the official version a long time ago
11:12.23d-lois up to speed now.
11:13.11RalithI was using stable ogre to run g3d even last summer
11:13.12Ralithkk
11:13.12d-loany guesses as to the widget 'sync' issue?
11:13.12Ralithgot a thread going on the Ogre forums, but all I'm getting is messy workaround suggestions.
11:13.20RalithI'm not sure I'd call it a sync issue
11:13.40RalithOgre's doing *something* that screws with the context state, and Qt is somehow resetting it such that it's capable of rendering correctly once Ogre stops.
11:14.33Ralithwhatever it is isn't a trivial OpenGL state thing, because I've tried saving/restoring that and I'm pretty sure I didn't miss anything
11:15.21Ralithso at this point I'm trying to work out how Qt resets things
11:15.30Ralithso I can do that manually right after Ogre renders
11:16.15d-losounds like a good approach.
11:17.21d-loI need to dig into ogre more, but am slightly familiar with qt.  Are you thinking of setting up ogre's render completion as a signal?
11:20.44RalithOgre does its rendering in the drawBackground function of a class derived grom QGraphicsScene
11:21.10Ralithas Qt already has support for rendering widgets directly into an OpenGL-backed QGraphicsScene, and Qt examples show OpenGL rendering being done in the background like this.
11:21.17d-loRalith: Possibly a silly question, but are you 1) integrating Ogre into Qt or 2) Qt into Ogre?  I was assuming #1 but realized #2 is completely possible also.
11:21.26Ralithboth actually
11:21.32RalithQt-in-Ogre-in-Qt
11:21.41Raliththe Qt sort of wraps around
11:22.02d-loExcellent :)
11:22.03Raliththe important bit is that the GL context is created and managed by Qt, though.
11:22.14Ralithhave a look at OgreScene in svn if you like
11:22.37RalithI haven't checked in the main code yet 'cuz I don't want to break existing g3d until I have something at least approaching functional
11:22.49Raliththe main code as in the main.cxx code; the important code is all in OgreScene
11:22.49d-lojust got back in the office.  Took 10 days off and have tons of catchup to do... email, voicemails, etc.  But I will look at it at somepoint :)
11:22.55Ralithhehe, 'kay
11:45.34Ralithgrabs some much-needed sleep
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12:16.00starseekerRalith: do you know anything about the "Render Queue Listener" used in that native code inside Ogre example?  http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=296902
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14:15.43starseekerhmm - rt^3 evidently isn't set up for out of dir building
14:16.24brlcadheh
14:28.40d-lofyi: working on the conversion to cmake in rt^3
14:31.46brlcadcool
14:32.00brlcadno commits, though?
14:32.12d-lojust started today :)  first day back.
14:32.13brlcadthat's easily parselable
14:32.28brlcadah okey, sounded like you were well underway
14:33.00brlcadw/b, cya in a bit -- dog needed some attention this am so i'll be in at/after lunch
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14:54.55brlcadis going to grab a sushi lunch at japan house around 11:45 if anyone is interested and in the area ;)
15:12.27``Erikhrmmm
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16:09.13CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r34877 10/rt^3/trunk/src/GS/gsph0.cxx: Simple change to main(). Making it output something instead of being a stub.
16:13.08CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r34878 10/rt^3/trunk/ (. src/ src/GE/ src/GS/ src/iBME/): Adding CMake stuff to svn:ignore
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17:32.33``Erikhttp://9to5mac.com/macbook-missing-feature
17:38.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r34879 10/rt^3/trunk/ (43 files in 43 dirs): More svn:ingore additions pertaining to CMake generated files.
17:54.52CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34880 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: keith and cliff have been making extensive progress on brep/nurbs raytracing support
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19:21.15CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r34881 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/brepintersect.cpp: fixed segfault bug in code, it turns out that ON_SimpleArray<ON_SimpleArray<T> > will segfault on initialization. The workaround is to us ON_ClassArray<ON_SimpleArray<T> >
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19:29.31madantis going through week-long orientation program at a business school which lets you sleep 4 hours a day
20:02.38``Erikhahaha, awesome :D
20:02.47``Erikkline city
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21:12.30CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34882 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: Clean up 4corner newton solver code - remove logic duplication.
21:49.21CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34883 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: Doggone it, somehow that broke some of the raytracing. Tweaks to get it closer to original behavior, but still missing something.
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23:07.15CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34884 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: Oops - don't pass intersect count between multiple solver runs.
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23:28.21CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r34885 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/brepintersect.cpp: hunted down bugs in MeshMeshIntersection now works a expected
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23:35.07starseeker\q
23:35.09starseekerwhoops
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23:42.18CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34886 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: For reasons not immediately clear, still getting more visual artifacts with breakout of solver logic. In the interm, restore previous version - need to figure out what the difference is.
23:42.29starseekermutter, mutter...
23:45.15Ralithstarseeker: no, don't know much about that, but it seems to be one way people have gotten standard opengl calls to work with Ogre and I may play with it if all else fails
23:45.19Ralithhowever
23:45.29Ralithsome opengl calls, at least, seem to work without any special handling
23:45.35Ralithe.g. the aforementioned glclear
23:46.03Ralithpossibly the issue discussed on the ogre forums was because they were trying to render opengl inline, rather than calling it after renderOneFrame
23:46.52starseekerRight - what I was wondering about was whether that example is a method for making Ogre more "receptive" to external OpenGL drawing
23:48.42starseekere.g could Qt do whatever it is that demo external OpenGL input was doing...
23:49.58starseekerwe don't care about Direct3D at the moment, so Karan's concerns don't apply...
23:50.50Ralithyeah
23:51.03Raliththe main issue is that the Qt stuff is designed to draw when it wants to, not when you want it to.
23:51.12Ralithso it'd require hacking a good bit deeper.
23:53.03Ralithhm.
23:58.45brlcadahh, there we go
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090626

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090626

00:06.29Ralith?
00:25.07starseekeris slightly unnerved that he couldn't put humpty-dumpty newton iterator back together again...
00:37.43``Erikheh
00:55.07brlcadRalith: server was k-lined, took a couple hours to get unblocked
00:55.12brlcadcgi:irc abuse
00:55.38Ralithah.
00:55.46Ralithdoesn't cgi:irc have an option to forward the user's ip to the ircd?
00:55.53Ralithallowing specific bans?
01:02.54``ErikI thought the cgi portal only allowed messages to/from the channel it was configured for, how do ya abuse it? O.o
01:03.52Ralithit can be set up like that, but it's also possible to use it as a generalized IRC client (even to arbitrary networks)
01:05.24``Erikwas it actual abuse, not an overzealous ircop/script?
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05:37.48CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Jdoliner 07http://brlcad.org * r1507 10/wiki/User:Jdoliner:
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10:39.23d-lomernin all
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12:05.55louipcmernin
12:06.03louipccheck this out: http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2008/12/02/widgets-enter-the-third-dimension-wolfenqt/
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13:00.14brlcadthat's pretty cool
13:07.22``Eriko.O
13:18.47d-lowolfen-qt.  heh. nice
13:27.10``Erikhm, ms labs had something like that 10 yrs ago :/
13:27.26``ErikI think the called it gallery or something
13:28.09``Eriknot using wolf3d to demo, but same tech
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15:31.39starseeker``Erik: the cool part, as I understand it, is specifically getting Qt in it
15:32.11starseekerunfortunately, that's still not what we need :-/
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17:40.23``Erikdangit
17:57.50CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34887 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: Ah ha. DID need to pass in the count of previous intersects to ensure correct assignments to t, N and ouv. Results should be identical now.
17:59.14starseekerwishes he could erase that particular section of the commit history... <turns red>
18:00.08brlcadheh, still some things not matching up?
18:00.46starseekerno, it looks OK now
18:00.54brlcadI mean before that commit
18:01.00starseekeroh, yeah
18:01.03brlcadthe pic looked good
18:01.10brlcadsomething else was fluxxored?
18:01.15starseekeryeah, shape1.s didn't trigger it
18:01.20brlcadah
18:01.56starseekerbasically the original setup was counting on intersects always being the total hit count for the ray, but we were using it locally
18:02.18brlcadwell you did at least narrow it down to just initial state value problems, that certainly should have helped
18:02.28starseekernods
18:03.10starseekerbasically, the intersects variable was doing two different jobs, which worked when everything was in one big happy function but showed up when the intersection count went local
18:04.44starseekersince we're planning to rework that whole section anyhow I probably shouldn't have bothered, but it was getting on my nerves
18:13.17brlcadits good refactoring practice regardless
18:46.47starseekerbrlcad: we're getting a problem on OSX 10.5 - mged's getting a bus error when it tries to start up.  gdb is complaining about not finding .o files for information, but does flag the crash in dm-X.c somewhere
18:47.06starseekerare you seeing anything similar on your mac?
18:47.47brlcadyeah, I've seen that
18:48.30starseekerany magic incantations I can give it to make it go away?
18:48.37brlcadwas investigating a little through the week but didn't get a lot of time to work it, one of a few things on my list today
18:48.42brlcadyeah, run classic ;)
18:48.50starseekerheh
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19:03.10louipcclassic rules
19:12.43brlcadstarseeker: curious, can you try running DISPLAY=hostname:0 instead of just :0
19:15.13``Erikmight need to xhost first
19:15.27starseekerbrlcad: on the 10.5 mac?
19:15.30brlcadyes
19:15.31starseekerone sec...
19:17.15``Erikcan try when he gets home
19:17.16starseekereven with xhost, just says "can't connect to display hostname:0"
19:17.39``Erikjust did an up and install on my home lappy, just have to get there to try running it
19:18.26brlcadstarseeker: defaults write org.x.X11 nolisten_tcp 0
19:18.35brlcadquit X11, restart it
19:21.46brlcadthe latest 10.5 disables remote connections, that should re-enable them -- which is the point of the hostname:0 test
19:22.01brlcadas I'm pretty sure the problem is a 32-bit-compiled X11 application trying to talk to a 64-bit X11
19:22.13``ErikI thought 10.4 needed that, too
19:24.29starseekerbrlcad: is that first line a command?
19:24.38starseekeror a setting somewhere?
19:24.59brlcadit's a command to be run in a terminal
19:25.23brlcadsets a setting for the x11 application :)
19:28.07starseekercool.  OK, tried that - obviously makes an attempt in that focus changes from the mac terminal to X11, but still gives bus error
19:29.00brlcadyou ran defaults, then tried DISPLAY=hostname:0 ?
19:34.13starseekeryes
19:38.56starseekerafter restarting X11
20:00.44*** join/#brlcad User386 (n=User@212.183.134.67)
20:30.54starseekerglares at the spam on the brlcad-commits list
20:40.27*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
20:40.27*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.8 posted (20090511) || GSoC2009 Next Step: code code, type type, commit frequently while you work! update wiki/blog on daily progress.
20:55.07CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r34888 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c:
20:55.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: Added vectoring equations that will lead to the limbs to be positioned and repositioned
20:55.11CIA-32BRL-CAD: by using rotation matrices. Also includes a demo of the process on an rcc primitive.
20:55.31brlcadwoot
20:56.16brlcadyeah, really rare drive-by spamming .. have to see how that made it through
21:53.08*** join/#brlcad cosurgi (n=cosurgi@atak.bl.pg.gda.pl)
21:56.12brlcadjdoliner: how's it going?
21:56.26jdolinernot bad
21:56.33jdolinerI hunted down a bunch of bugs
21:56.47jdolinerand I've been puzzling since last night over how to reconstruct the geometry
21:57.10jdolinerit's a bit tricky it seems
21:57.23jdolinerI'm looking at nmg right now to see what they did
21:58.43jdolineroh also, the problem I was having with segfaults was a really annoying one.
21:58.51brlcadare you familiar with euler operations?
21:59.11jdolinerperhaps, say more
22:23.00``Erikfirst, ya oil everything up, then ya start operating
22:23.43``Erik3 rotations to get the direction/twist you want
22:24.18``Eriker, wait, that's euler angles
22:24.18``Eriksorry
22:24.53``Erikhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_modeling and search euler
22:57.02brlcadjdoliner: basically, (summarized in the link erik posted) it's a way to perform topological transformations on geometry in such a way that solidity preservation is guaranteed
23:01.47brlcadby looking at the various components of a boundary representation (e.g., vertices, edges, faces, shells) and ways they can interact
23:02.12brlcadmaking a new edge, extruding a face, intersecting faces, splitting surfaces, ..
23:02.36brlcadlots of info in this paper of relevance:  http://www.nakl.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~masuda/papers/cad93.pdf
23:04.38brlcadshould help in figuring out how to perform a given restructuring
23:38.54CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34889 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: bob removed g-adrt from the windows build so remove the dist inclusion
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090627

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090627

00:01.47*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-196.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
00:02.56CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34890 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/Makefile.am: all files have to be listed, include brepintersect.h in the dist
00:23.57jdolinerbrlcad: **cool reading the paper now
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02:16.38starseekerwoot - Meshlab 1.2.1 actually built cleanly
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02:32.31starseekerraises his eyebrows - Ayam has some sort of material objects
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13:40.58``Eriklatest brlcad up starts up fine on my 10.5
13:41.14``Erikbut it's 32b end to end
13:41.22``ErikI think O.o
16:05.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34891 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ (13 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
16:05.50CIA-32BRL-CAD: Take a stab at some undo icons for Archer. Also reorder the buttons a bit -
16:05.52CIA-32BRL-CAD: it's a concern that an imprecise click intending to checkpoint a lot of work
16:05.54CIA-32BRL-CAD: could have exactly the opposite effect, for example - or an attempt to create an
16:05.56CIA-32BRL-CAD: arb accidently reverts the file. Probably need to 'break up' the harmless,
16:05.58CIA-32BRL-CAD: creative, and destructive operations to different parts of the toolbar or
16:06.02CIA-32BRL-CAD: something else intelligent - in the meantime, at least put 'harmless' clicks on
16:06.36``Eriko.O
16:17.57starseeker``Erik: mm?
16:19.37``Erikcommit message
16:19.47``Erikand that it's saturday O.o
16:20.11``Erikshouldn't you be, y'know, househunting, relaxing, getting stuff ready to move, being away from a 'puter?
16:26.41starseekerah :)
16:28.19archivistthe internet needs, cant leave it
16:37.45``Erikheh, sure ya can, that's why I'm not on the 'puter right now!
16:38.45``Erik(hypocrisy? whu?)
16:42.29brlcadstarseeker: NEWS ;)
16:44.17brlcad``Erik: if you want something more interesting, could figure out why --with-opengl won't compile -- there's a libpng linkage problem on 10.5
16:44.53``Erikcan't type much with the wrist, took too long to just test the latest build :(
16:45.23brlcadiirc, there are libpng symbols embedded in one of the core mac frameworks that ends up screwing our dependency when linking anything that uses libpng
16:45.30``Erikotherwise, I'd be coding lisp stuff... itching to try some stuff, but can't get into flow like this :(
16:46.42brlcadgot really good at typing with one hand when he had bad RSI many years ago, then one hand + a pencil in the other was nearly double speed, until I recovered
16:47.33``ErikI started getting rsi issues, hoping this break (hahaha.) will let it recoup
16:47.49``Erik2-4 more weeks
17:00.41*** join/#brlcad pacman87_ (n=pacman87@bz.bzflag.bz)
17:01.35brlcadtelling you, learning to use a mouse with my left hand was the best thing I ever did
17:02.21brlcadpain vanished in just a couple days, only returns when I use it right-handed for long periods of time
17:03.06``Erikbeen using my left hand for mouse
17:03.23``Erikwas reaching across at work, moved the mouse over a couple days ago
17:04.19brlcadwoot
17:04.54``Erikwas overshooting a lot at first
17:40.34brlcadtook me about a solid week (100 hrs use or so) before I felt really comfortable, was decent after just a couple days
17:41.34``Erik? the mouse, or rsi?
17:44.22brlcadmouse
17:44.39brlcadrsi disappeared almost immediately
17:45.04brlcadI was already down to pencil mode by that point, couldn't use right at all
17:45.24``Erikblames scrollwheel on mouse
17:45.30brlcada basic #2 with rubber eraser side down does great :)
17:46.12brlcadhm, my biggest pain was holding a left-click, like for drag-n-drop
17:46.13``Erik26 years on a keyboard, 17 with a mouse, didn't happen until I got a mouse with a scrollwheel
17:46.40``Erikmight be the shape of the mouse, too... doesn't seem right to me, the mouseman95 was far better
17:48.09``Erikhttp://www.drivers.ru/images/catalog/ms38.gif was the body I liked, the front doesn't really slope down
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18:25.57``Erikhttp://www.miller-mccune.com/politics/partisan-portfolios-1297   interesting
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20:22.12*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=pacman87@pool-173-57-41-37.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
21:17.16Ralithugh, the wiki never remembers my login.
21:17.31Ralithconsiders actually asking it to.
21:18.00``ErikO.o
21:44.48CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1509 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Log for 2009-06-24 and -25
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090628

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090628

00:02.12``ErikI should make a parody of the old cinemaware game "defender of the crown" set in midwest us and call it "defender of the corn"
03:13.42starseeker``Erik: I'm not sure some of the folks out that way would see the parody ;-)
03:14.03starseekerplus, if you end up out there you'd get to explain it in person :-P
04:12.47starseekerarrgh, no sound in bzflag :-(
04:40.35starseekeror alienarena
04:40.38starseekermutter...
04:40.55starseekeroh, well, not a big deal - music plays ok...
04:43.05starseekerwonders if it's an openal problem...
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19:12.12``Erikblah
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19:53.16CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1512 10/wiki/More_Changelog: /* June, 17 - today */
20:06.32``Erikhuh, billy mays is dead. no more screaming infomercials o.O
20:53.05*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
20:53.05*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.8 posted (20090511) || GSoC2009 Next Step: code code, type type, commit frequently while you work! update wiki/blog on daily progress.
22:25.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34892 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: archer menu button cleanup
22:26.50brlcad~seen pacman87_
22:26.54ibotpacman87_ is currently on #brlcad, last said: 'GNU Make 3.81'.
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22:57.01Ralithlots of people dying lately
22:57.27Ralithokay, hm.
22:57.34RalithI have an idea wrt. the Qt/Ogre conflict
22:57.40Ralithbut I can't work out how to do it without modifying Qt.
22:58.27Ralithand I don't really think that's a great plan, unless there's some sort of reassurance that it'll get accepted upstream
22:58.43Ralith'cuz one of the advantages of Qt was that it's already on most systems, and if we need to build a custom version anyway...
23:01.24Ralithalthough, come to think of it, I might be able to work out an Ogre-centric approach based on this idea, if I can work out how to manually do the stuff QApplication does, because I don't think it'd be compatible.
23:01.32Ralithbrlcad: did you mention you knew something about doing that?
23:20.34starseekerbrlcad: sorry, forgot to get NEWS file
23:20.56starseekeris recovering from another round of house hunting
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090629

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090629

01:52.31*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-196.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
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08:51.36CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1514 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Log for 2009-06-28
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11:14.14d-lomerinin all!
11:17.53d-loRalith: How goes the conflict resolution?
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13:11.28*** join/#brlcad elena (n=elena@89.136.118.141)
13:13.31CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34893 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/ (. brlcad.info brlcad.install brlcad.module): BRL-CAD integration module (initial commit)
13:44.22brlcadhi elena!
13:44.27brlcadwelcome back
13:44.29elenahi.
13:44.32elenathank you.
13:44.40brlcadhave a good trip?
13:44.44elenayes.
13:44.55elenaI was just about to ask some help here :)
13:45.02elenabut first, how are you?
13:52.05brlcadi'm doing great, had a fantastic weekend
13:52.28elenawonderfull. I'm glad to hear that.
13:52.45brlcadwonderful wine tasting event and dinner with friends on saturday, latino festival on sunday :)
13:53.03elenathat sounds very nice.
13:53.24elenawhat kind of festival?
13:53.42elenaI mean: dancing, food, etc?
13:53.45brlcadyeah
13:53.56elenaok.
13:54.14brlcadconcerts going, lots of great food, music, dancing
13:54.40brlcadthe wine tasting was aboslutely spectacular, a real highlight
13:54.41elenain your town or traveling?
13:54.54brlcadin baltimore
13:56.27elenado you have time to give me some tips on raytraceing models?
13:57.46brlcadsure, is this for generating pictures?
13:58.02elenayes.
13:58.25elenaI'm not sure if I should use mged and the rt command
13:58.35brlcadthat's probably the best way
13:58.36elenaor only the rt tool.
13:58.48elenaok. then I know how to do it.
13:58.55brlcadrunning through mged will make it a little easier to set up the view
13:59.03elenayes. exactly.
13:59.09elenaanother problem.
13:59.59elenais there a way to setup the view size so that it best fits the model?
14:00.09brlcadheh
14:00.14brlcadwas just going to comment on that
14:00.16brlcadyes and no
14:00.24brlcadthe 'autoview' command fits the model to the view
14:00.33brlcadbut it does a guarantee fit, not necessarily a best fit
14:00.43elenathat's ok.
14:00.50brlcadyou'll probably want to run "zoom 2" on everything being rendered
14:00.51elenai didn't know about autoview.
14:01.05elenaok. i'll do some tests.
14:01.17brlcadif there is nothing displayed, and you 'draw'/'e' something up, it'll autoview automatically
14:01.26elenai tried some hacks with grouping objects. not very successful.
14:02.13elenaand I was thinking to do something like:
14:02.16elenadraw *
14:02.20brlcadoh, no
14:02.23elenart -o model.pix
14:02.24brlcaddon't do that :)
14:02.28elenawhy?
14:02.37brlcad"draw *" is very bad
14:02.39elenaand what's the alternative.
14:02.47elena?
14:03.08brlcadthat means draw every single object and shape in the database
14:03.09elenabecause it draws all objects?
14:03.20elenayes.
14:03.29elenawhat's the alternative?
14:03.52elenaso I have a database that the user uploaded.
14:04.09elenaand I want to get the images from different angles.
14:04.22brlcadso if the objects were text, and a word is a union of the letters, and a phrase is a grouping of multiple words, like "Hello world"
14:04.31elenaI'll use ae to set the angle, autoview to fit the object.
14:05.06elenago on...
14:05.28brlcadsaying "draw *" is effectively, "draw H", "draw e", "draw l", "draw l", "draw o", "draw ' '", "draw Hello", "draw world", "draw Hello world"
14:06.05brlcadit's everything including all uses and groupings .. not what you want, you want just the last one "draw Hello world"
14:07.00brlcadmoreover with brl-cad geometries, our format supports an arbitrary number of models per file, so there could be lots of 'main' objects, not necessarily just one
14:07.18brlcadto find a starting point, you run the "tops" command
14:07.22brlcadthat lists the top-level objects
14:07.41brlcadnormally, one or more of those is a primary
14:07.57elenaand draw that.
14:08.01elenaok. makes sence.
14:08.01brlcadright
14:08.22elenacan I do draw and tops in one command?
14:08.33elenasomething like draw `tops` ?
14:08.40brlcadyou can, but you also don't want that
14:08.45elenai think I can. I'll look.
14:08.49brlcadthat would imply they had something to do with each other
14:08.52elenano? why?
14:09.02brlcadthey're top-level because they are independent
14:09.05elenayou're reading my thoughts before I type :)
14:09.21brlcad.g files are collections of trees of geometries.
14:09.35brlcadthere may be one tree, there may be twenty trees
14:09.48elenahow would you approach this?
14:09.48brlcadyou've seen the example .g files, yes?
14:09.53elenayes.
14:10.17brlcadI could very trivially combine them all into one single .g file and it would be perfectly valid
14:10.34brlcadthere'd just be a lot of top-level objects
14:10.52elenathat will alter the db, too, right?
14:11.01brlcadwhat do you mean?
14:12.01brlcadi mean those 20+ separate files are only separated by convention, I could combine them together and it's a valid .g
14:12.13elenain mged. if I do a group.
14:12.30elenathat group will instantly be saved in the database.
14:12.34brlcadi mean literally, you can "cat *.g > everything.g" .. bad thing to do, but entirley valid
14:12.51elenaI didn't know that.
14:13.05brlcadcreating a group in mged is a different thing altogether -- that basically creates a new top-level object
14:13.13brlcadand if the things you're grouping were top-level, they no longer are
14:13.50brlcadit's a set of directed acyclic graphs, with named references
14:14.04elenabut in our case, the user will upload only one file.
14:14.22brlcadone _file_ .. but that file could be anything
14:14.34elenacool. let me play some more with what you told me and I'll get back.
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14:14.44brlcadso you're going to have to either just import all top-level objects
14:14.52elenai'll buzz you or cliff some more if I don't manage it myself.
14:14.54brlcador have the user specify which object to import
14:15.28brlcadyou definitely should not be creating groups or geometry
14:15.43elenayes. I imagine that.
14:16.03elenathis is why I was looking for the autoview-style solution also.
14:16.19brlcadfor safety, you may even want to store the files as read-only, 444 or something
14:16.43elenai'll look into that, too.
14:17.18elenai think i lost some time trying to make a lot of customizations that proved not that important.
14:17.33elenaon the processing queue part.
14:17.57elenabut they led to a simpler solution :)
14:18.01brlcadhere's a good example, if you look at the havoc.g example file .. and run tops
14:18.07brlcadyou'll see there are three top-level objects
14:18.16brlcadBRL-GSI_EFFORT/     havoc/              sun/R
14:18.45brlcadyou don't know which of those is important without asking the user
14:19.03brlcadso you either import all three, or have the user prompt (in this case, havoc is the important one)
14:19.28brlcadprompting is probably best as the important object is often not even a top-level
14:19.48elenabut if i have a different format
14:19.51brlcadthe m35.g file is another good example
14:20.09elenathen that might not have objects in it.
14:20.14brlcad8 top-level objects: 2 assemblies, 2 primitives, 4 regions
14:20.41brlcadall formats have at least one object in them :)
14:21.02brlcadit's just many are actually contrained to exactly one object,
14:21.16elenawhat is _GLOBAL?
14:21.19brlcadlike the stl file format, one object
14:21.24brlcadit's a non-geometric object
14:21.30brlcadfile attributes
14:21.40elenaaha.
14:21.44brlcadstores things like title and the working units
14:21.52elenaok. thank you for your help.
14:23.21brlcadno problemo, keep the questions coming
14:23.57elena:)
14:34.21mafmhi
14:34.54elenahi
14:36.35brlcadhi
14:47.14*** join/#brlcad Ralith_ (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
14:47.24starseekerhey elena
14:47.39elenahi starseeker.
14:47.46d-lohi!
14:47.52starseekerwelcome back :-)
14:47.57elenathank you :)
14:48.13elenahow have you been?
14:48.26elenahi d-lo.
14:51.48d-loWIth all this greeting action happening, I just had to get in on it.
14:51.58starseekerwould actually recommend requiring the user to specify at least one named "primary" db object, or example, or something like that
14:52.02elena:))
14:53.33starseekeror, since user laziness usually wins, grab the tops list, generate some default raytraces, and present them a list of images asking them to select the correct toplevel images
14:53.40elenawill that work with other formats, too?
14:53.51starseekerhard to say
14:54.28brlcadthat'll for for most all formats simply because we're a superset format
14:54.30starseekerlogically speaking, the first thing to check is whether there is a toplevel object named <filename> if the file is called filename.g
14:54.44elenawhat would be the purpose of creating a top object if you don't use it in the final render?
14:54.46starseeker(e.g. havoc in havoc.g)
14:55.06starseekersometimes you want to quickly show different aspects of a design
14:55.17brlcadstarseeker: that's more the exception than the rule, depends which org/person is modeling
14:55.39brlcadfor a decade, the convention was to group your primary into an "all.g" object
14:55.59starseekermodels can get very complex, and if you want to show someone just "this part, this part, and this part" multiple times in different situations it's a quick and easy way to have it available
14:56.16starseekerbrlcad: that's unfortuante, really - it would be a very logical convention
14:57.18starseekerelena: then in that case I'd suggest presenting the user with visuals of the top level objects and let them tell you which ones to pay attention to :-/
14:57.56elenaok. i'll try to do that.
14:58.20elenathen submitting has to be a two step process.
14:58.25brlcadstarseeker: remember the filename can vary drastically (stryker_dlo_20040329.g) too .. I wouldn't assume anything based on filename
14:58.37brlcadyou can't even really assume it's a top-level you want, but that's a good starting point
14:58.45elenafirst submit the file, then (next step) select the object names.
14:58.47brlcadelena: what you could do is simply show them the hierarchy
14:58.50brlcadlet them pick the point
14:59.03brlcadfor simple formats, it's just an object, or list of objects
14:59.06d-lowill ignore the stryker comment... :P
14:59.26brlcadfor hierarchical formats, you display a collapsed tree
14:59.54elenamaybe multiple select?
14:59.58brlcadsure
15:00.03elenaok.
15:00.07brlcadbut selecting selects that entire subtree
15:00.15elenayes.
15:00.46brlcadhm, actually there's no real need to impose that limitation .. it's just whatever nodes they select
15:01.22elenayes. it's more in tone with the hello world example :)
15:03.23brlcadchuckles that dlo is the name of an ipod/iphone accessory manufacturer, particularly in the context of stryker
15:03.38brlcadand then there's the stryker sonoma winery ;)
15:04.46d-lowha.... I'm getting a lawyer!  They stolededed my irc handle!
15:18.44*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@64.74.225.82)
15:34.34starseekerd-lo: so with a lawyer, you'll be both broke and annoyed rather than just annoyed? ;-)
15:35.26d-lolol nice.  unless... wait a minute.... a close relative ISA lawyer and owes me a favor.... hrm.....
15:36.30d-lovisualizes himself standing ontop of a burning, ruined building which use to be 'dlo HQ - makers of iPhone/iPod accessories"...
15:38.06``Erikheh, 'cept dlo.com is a subsidiary of phillips
15:38.33d-loorly?  Phillips wants some too eh?
15:38.38``Erikimagines they might have a bit of legal flex :D plus going back to '01
15:39.37d-loi can see it now on /.  :  Philips Legal dept gets omgwtfpwnd by loudmouth government employee....
15:39.44d-lo=D
15:40.42``Erikgiven the accuracy of /. headlines and summaries, that might be posted
15:41.12``Erikthat bug totally owned that speeding car, look at that ugly greasemark on the grill! PWN3d!#~@
15:41.38louipcwhy not just ask the user what object he/she wants to use for the preview pic?
15:42.13starseekerstill has not forgiven slashdot for that premature/wrong announcement of the original Apollo 11 tapes turning up
15:42.22starseekertalk about a letdown...
15:42.34louipchah
15:43.26starseekerbets they were erased and re-used - sounds just like "policy" on such tapes... heck with history, it's the policy and we're following it
15:43.33d-lolol
15:44.15d-loat the viewing of those Apollo 11 tapes, somehow pron ends up on the overhead screen....lol
15:44.30starseekerthat really does suck big time - one of the great events in the history of human beings AS A SPECIES and they went missing
15:44.31``Erikwas just thinking that o.O
15:44.34starseekercries
15:45.09d-lostarseeker: didn't you hear?  thats tnhe main reason we are going back in 2020... gotta remake the tapes.
15:45.13``Erik"houston, apogee attained, now firin*TSSHT* uhh uhhh uhhh oh yeah uhhh"
15:45.33d-loApollo 11... is that a funky saxaphone?
15:45.53louipcyeah you'd think they'd save something like that
15:46.33starseekerstill wants to figure out some way to spend a decade or two with the Saturn V technical archives and a wide format scanner in his retirement years...
15:47.06``Erikand then model it down to the bolt threads?
15:47.24starseekeryou got it
15:47.40d-lo...for the hallibut?
15:48.00``Erikbiggest cadpeen ever
15:49.12starseekerthinks such an accomplishment is worth documenting in detail
15:49.45louipcwell, it's on paper :D
15:49.57starseekerlouipc: my point exactly :-/
15:50.32``Erikpaper isn't what it used to be, 60's paper and ink are probably already in bad shape :/
15:50.38starseekerand everything I've see suggests that the filing system used is probably.... well... I guess we'll got with inadequate
15:50.48``Erikacidic paper eats itself up
15:50.52``Erikask tufte O.o
15:51.25louipcso this is something you probably want to do now, rather than wait for retirement...
15:52.39starseekerlouipc: I have no clue how to get the funding it would take to do that, even assuming they would let me...
15:53.53starseekerplus, I've got a few things to do first :-)
15:54.07starseekerdoesn't want to model a Saturn V with mged as a modeler...
15:54.24louipchaha
15:54.41louipcyeah but the scanning will be enough work
15:54.51starseekerthat's for sure
15:55.02d-lomodling it by hand would be faster :)
15:55.17d-loholey bad speling dai batman...
15:55.26``Eriksure you do, perfect way to isolate usability issues in the interface and fix 'em :D
15:56.21starseekerthe stages would be 1. high res scan every sheet of paper related 2. invent an organizational scheme that would actually work and sort everything into it 3.  recruit the internet to make svg versions of the 2d drawings so you can actually work with 'em 4. cad model that baby
15:56.26brlcadstarseeker: more than likely, it's like our taps -- there's a bigass stack of a couple hundred sitting off in some room, maybe a summer intern or two worked on archiving, but mostly still gestating
15:56.41brlcads/taps/tapes/
15:56.58``Erikcrowdsourcing, pheer
15:57.00starseekerbrlcad: fingers crossed - if that's the case they might yet be found
15:57.44brlcadI doubt they're actually "lost" .. there's probably just only two or three people that know where they're at, just like ours :)
15:57.58``Erikheh
15:57.59starseeker``Erik: inkscape + 2000 space nerds with no social life - that's a force to be respected ;-)
15:58.36starseekerexpensive part is a wide format scanner plus the manhours of scanning required
15:59.04starseekerwonders why he didn't think of trying to get that into the stimulus bill...
15:59.06``Erikjust a few years ago, they found the french commission papers for the two "english" ships captain kidd had taken, supposedly proof that he was a legal privateer and not a pirate O.o misplaced media is a bitch
15:59.33starseekerheh
15:59.55``Erikhung because someone misfiled a paper
15:59.59louipcyou have to get into NASA before step 1
16:00.20starseekerlouipc: actually, their records are part of the public archives now (at least from that era)
16:00.24starseekersome of them, anyway
16:00.32louipcoh cool
16:01.22starseekercheck out this dude's site:  http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/
16:02.00``Eriknasa doesn't have the budget or impetus to be very secretive O.o they mostly use russian agencies for lifting these days heh
16:03.12starseekerspecifically, http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/QuestForInfo.html
16:04.26starseekerhe's done some Really Impressive Work digging up info
16:05.06starseekerthe government archives are beyond doubt repositories of lots of really neat historical treasures that nobody knows how to find and nobody cares enough to sort through
16:10.59``Erikshoulda brought in a tv dinner
16:13.16*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-75-169.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
16:14.25jdolinersean slash indianlarry, or anyone else who's interested. Would you be help me with an algorithm here?
16:14.35jdolinerI'm kind of stuck
16:15.19``Erikwhat algo?
16:15.59jdolinerunfortunately I don't have the name so I'll have to describe it
16:16.12``Erikpsuedocode in pastebin?
16:16.26jdolinerpastebin?
16:16.51jdolinerit's more I need help devising the algorithm
16:16.56``Erikhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/
16:16.59``Erikah, ok
16:17.06``Erikshuts up and listens
16:18.15jdolinerso I have my code all setup to take two meshes, and return as polylines the trimming curves between them
16:19.06jdolinerso that's nice and all but know I need to talk that polyline and use it to split each mesh into two meshes, the one inside the other mesh and the one outside
16:19.11jdolinerand I'
16:19.14jdolinerm not sure
16:19.21jdolinerof the best way to do that
16:19.36jdolinerdo you think it's a better idea to do it afterward using the polyline
16:20.10``Erikby "mesh", you don't mean a mesh, but a NURBS, right?
16:21.22jdolinerno I mean an ON_Mesh
16:21.52jdolinerit's still discrete geometry at this point and not parametric
16:21.53``Erikpainkillers have me fuzzy, here, I'll throw something at the back of indianlarrys head
16:22.33``Erikif it's triangles, any line cutting through a triangle will produce 2 triangles... I d'no ON_Mesh
16:22.46indianlarryhey joe
16:22.48jdolinerit's triangles or quads
16:22.49jdolinerhi
16:23.02indianlarrycatchin up...
16:23.27jdolinerbut lines don't necessarily cut all the way through on a triangle
16:23.36``Erik(wait, some lines will produce a quad, but those can be broken into two triangles)
16:23.46jdolineryeah
16:24.18jdolinerbut you could also have a triangle broken up by not just one line but a whole bunch of little lines
16:24.37jdolinerif for example one mesh has much smaller details than the other
16:25.22``Erikby casting vertex to vertex, you can cut polygons into triangles
16:26.32``Erikdo it recursively and you have a fully triangulated mesh *shrug* but the vicodin has me goofy, indianlarry will come up with something brilliant here...
16:26.33jdolineryes, on of my ideas involves doing that
16:27.24indianlarrydefinitely need resolution to capture the smallest details
16:27.51indianlarrywe are currently working similar issue with nurbs trims
16:27.54``Erik(mebbe an aggressive splitting algo followed by a decimation pass?)
16:28.07jdolinerno I'm not
16:28.30jdolineroh you are sry
16:28.48jdolinerso here's my one idea which I think could work
16:29.19jdolinerright now I have it all setup to find every intersection line
16:29.28jdolinerload it into an array
16:29.45jdolinerand then at the end it goes through and reconstructs these into the polylines
16:30.05jdolinernow instead of doing exactly that
16:30.39jdolinerI can keep track of which faces the lines came from
16:31.09jdolinerby loading them into arrays for each face
16:31.16indianlarryi would think you'd want to track which face it belongs too
16:32.17indianlarryneed to remember that trimming edges within a face have to show direction/inner/outer
16:32.18jdolineryeah then when I run my algorithm on the lines from each seperate face. I get a polyline that indicates exactly how each face should be split up
16:32.31jdolineryes that's my question
16:32.35jdolinerhow should I do that
16:32.37jdoliner?
16:33.04indianlarryjust thinking out loud
16:33.43jdolinerwell I can test points for being inside or outside the meshes
16:33.46indianlarryif your intersection coisides with an outer edge at any point the intersection becomes an outer edge ?
16:33.58indianlarrysorry coincides
16:34.17jdolinersry I don't follow
16:34.23jdolinerwaht do you mean by outer edge
16:34.24jdoliner?
16:34.56indianlarryguess your working with simple faces which only have an outer trim?
16:35.05jdolineryeah
16:36.10indianlarrya corner intersecting a face could still produce an inner loop?
16:36.28jdolineryes
16:38.10jdolinerso one option that I see
16:38.31jdolineris that I can pretty easily test a point for being inside our outside a mesh
16:38.52jdolinerit just takes linear time with the number of triangles
16:39.07jdoliner(which is kinda big)
16:39.14jdolinerbut once I have that point
16:39.20jdolinerthen anything that's connected to it
16:40.18jdolineris also on the same side of the mesh
16:41.45jdolinerso we would really only need to do one point per connected region which isn't so unreasonable
16:43.24indianlarrydo brep meshes have trim loops or do they just get subdivided into smaller meshes
16:44.15jdolinerthey do not have trim loops
16:44.29indianlarryokay
16:47.58indianlarryyou'd thnk there wold be a way to track edge direction to help out here
16:49.11indianlarryust keep visualizing the corner into the center of a face problem
16:50.39jdolinerk, will do
16:50.48indianlarryeach facet or quad has defined outward pointing normal?
16:51.08jdolineryes, by right hand rule
16:51.35jdolinerhmm
16:51.58jdolinerI think I need to look back at my lower level functions
16:52.41indianlarryeach facet or quad that is intersected could then be subdivided into inside outside?
16:52.48jdolinerI bet that they consistantly indicate something with the direction the resultant edge points
16:53.07indianlarrythats how they do it with the nurbs trims
16:54.21indianlarryyou could almost create your own polyline trimming loops
16:56.00jdolineryeah I think I can
16:56.08jdolinerI mean I think that's what my code in the present state does
16:56.26indianlarryneed to keep the loops by face then inner/outter
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16:58.08jdolineroh here's an interesting fact:
16:58.51jdolinerif we intersect triangles abc and def
16:59.37jdolinerthen the dot product of (d-a) and the normal of abc is positive if d is on the external side of abc
17:03.06indianlarryjust tells you which side d is on holds for any point
17:05.29jdolineryeah, it only indicates ternality if there's nothing intersecting def between the line that abc leaves and d
17:08.58indianlarryif you store the intersect polyline by face you should be able to use it with right-hand-rule to subdivide you facets/mesh
17:10.00indianlarryif polyline intersects face edge its an outer type loop otherwise an inner loop
18:01.30CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r34894 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c:
18:01.30CIA-32BRL-CAD: Added needed data to allow poseable left arm, with connected parts and joints.
18:01.33CIA-32BRL-CAD: Bounding boxes for those limbs have been removed until a better method is devised.
18:05.56*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@80-218-237-16.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:26.11CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34895 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/cc.c: cc : input from commandline rather than hardcoded data
19:00.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34896 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/Makefile.am: we needed the mged_LINK in order to override LDFLAGS when we had a custom tk, but that's not the case any longer. problem came up where we needed one of the globally set LDFLAGS.
19:04.34CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34897 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac:
19:04.36CIA-32BRL-CAD: apply a fugly workaround for the Mac OS X 10.5 linker problem whereby it fails
19:04.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: saying 'ld: cycle in dylib re-exports with /usr/X11/lib/libGL.dylib'. the
19:04.42CIA-32BRL-CAD: problem appears to be the glx internals making calls into the GL framework,
19:04.44CIA-32BRL-CAD: which ends up finding the wrong (same) dylib during load. the 'fix' is to tell
19:04.49CIA-32BRL-CAD: it exactly where the framework dylib lives, which is done via a project-wide
19:04.51CIA-32BRL-CAD: LDFLAGS so we don't have to pollute all the places it would be needed.
19:44.04CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34898 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: mged rotation halts after a few events once a model is e'd up and you zoom in/out (at least with mouse). seems to be specific to mac 10.5
19:45.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34899 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: kill command (and probably others) in archer is horked.
20:07.56CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34900 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: mged crashes inside X_choose_visual() with default X11 libdm interface on mac os x 10.5 (fbserv seemed to be fine)
20:56.41CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r34901 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c:
20:56.42CIA-32BRL-CAD: Created a new function for creating the entire left arm, allowing for the arm to pivot
20:56.44CIA-32BRL-CAD: around the shoulder joint, and have all connected parts of the arm point in the same
20:56.46CIA-32BRL-CAD: direction.
21:33.33elenahow can I ran multiple mged commands from the command line?
21:33.56elenasomething like mged -cr something.g "tops;tops"
21:37.31elenaI got it.
21:39.26CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34902 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/brlcad.module: Update BRL-CAD module (raytracing code is work in progress).
21:40.03brlcadsomething exactly like that
21:40.43elenai only got it working with echo -e tops\\ntops | mged -cr something.g
21:41.21CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1517 10/wiki/More_Changelog: /* June, 17 - today */
21:41.38elenagoing to bed. have a great afternoon.
22:06.19mafmuh
22:06.34mafmelena working in raytracing code?
22:07.02louipcto generate preview images for the model repository
22:07.15mafmoh
22:07.30mafmI was getting worried about creating a raytracer in php or something :P
22:07.43louipcbahhah
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22:08.14mafmbrl-cad web on esteroids :P
22:08.25``Erikraytracer in javascript, pheer
22:10.57mafm:D
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23:01.12Ralith_d-lo: I've got several ideas, although my first hacks didn't pan out.
23:01.30Ralith_they're just getting increasingly nontrivial and equally not guaranteed to success
23:03.38``Erikanything guaranteed to succeed is boring O.o d-lo probably won't see this for another 12 hours or so, though
23:10.09Ralithtrue enough
23:11.16louipcwhat is guaranteed to success?
23:15.28``Erikbets he could write "hello world" and get it to compile the very first time :D
23:17.22mafm``Erik: but it will be buggy! http://www.ddj.com/hpc-high-performance-computing/217801225
23:18.03``Erikthat's too much reading for me, I'm illiterate
23:18.35starseekerRalith: have you considered contacting the Qt folks to see if they can steer you towards the parts working the reset magic?
23:19.09mafm(erm, page 2, about errors of "hello world" programs in C)
23:19.10mafm:D
23:19.28starseekermight also be a good opener if we need to propose some changes to include in the next Qt
23:19.39mafmthat's fine ``Erik, you just reminded me about the recently read article
23:19.52Ralithstarseeker: I found lots of magic-looking code in QGraphicsView::render, but I'm not sure I can use it without modifying Qt
23:19.56Ralithwhich seems like a worst-case.
23:20.05``Erikwho said C? :D
23:20.13RalithQGraphicsScene*
23:20.43Raliththen again, perhaps I could simply introduce some redundancy...
23:21.25starseekerRalith: redundancy?
23:21.50Ralithstarseeker: the big block of setup code in the render function might be practical to extract into the g3d code.
23:21.58starseekerah
23:22.06starseekermight do for a start, certainly
23:22.12starseekerespecially if it works ;-)
23:22.13Ralithmy original thought was to slightly rework Qt itself to do that without the redundancy
23:22.25louipchaha writeln
23:22.27Ralithbut that'd undesirable and I now realise perhaps unnecessary
23:22.39starseekernods
23:22.53starseekerwe've already got Ogre back in svn, so that's the easier mod target to start with
23:23.19Ralithand one of the nice things about using Qt is that many already have it installed; using a customized version negates that.
23:24.00starseekerI wouldn't be afraid of redundancy at this stage - if it works we can try to work with Qt/Ogre to find the "correct/pretty" way later
23:24.31Ralithyeah.
23:24.47starseekerdrags self off to gym
23:25.19mafm``Erik: probably the guy who wrote the article can find bugs in any other languages, given the length of the "lecture" about errors in C hello world programs :)
23:29.43``ErikO.o so, uh, checking the return value of a function is... well... ALL of his argument there? weak :)
23:30.32Ralithurgh.
23:30.42Raliththis init code requires stuff only render knows about :/
23:54.08``Erikyeesh, goblin sharks are creepy
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090630

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090630

00:25.54alecs1did I read Qt here? an interface replacing mged written with Qt?
00:26.24alecs1fabulous
00:27.49Ralithindeed
00:27.53Ralithif the thing'll cooperate with ogre.
00:30.14alecs1I wish you best of luck then; found you brl wiki page with google
00:30.20alecs1I'll keep an eye on it
00:30.28alecs1:)
00:31.17Raliththanks
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07:43.40elenado you know why mged outputs text to stderr when in console mode?
07:43.46elenai use 7.10.4
07:46.16elenai ran mged -cr something.g tops
07:46.47elenait displays: Opened in READ ONLY mode and the top objects.
07:46.58elenabut on stderr.
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11:06.13d-loMornin all!  
11:06.17d-lo*READREADREAD*
11:07.31d-loRalith: Whats the possibility of getting you to write up short blurbs about your ideas/approaches and dropping them in your log on the wiki?
11:09.07d-loRalith: I haven't taken a look at your problem (in code) so I have no idea how complex it would be to extend the Qt Class with the problem with your own homebrew.
11:11.11d-lostarseeker: Going to the gym nowadays?  Rock on!
11:13.05d-lo``Erik: Agreed.  Goblinsharks are something straight out of a horror flick.
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11:40.34magesingHi everyone, Suppose I have modelled a part, and now I want to make a manufacturing drawing so that I can machine it... How do I make the drawing and apply GD&T in BRL-CAD?
11:41.48louipcmagesing: brl-cad doesn't have that capability
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11:43.09magesinglouipc: hmm... that's a shame
11:44.47magesingDoesn't that kindof limit the utility of brl-cad as a CAD/CAM package? What's the use of designing a part if I have no way of transferring that data to the shop-floor?
11:44.50louipcyeah I'd like to see brl-cad more capable for drafting... but there needs to be willing and able developers to do that
11:45.49magesinghmm... I wonder what would be involved... Is it currently possible to render views of parts with visible edges solid and hidden edges dashed?
11:45.50louipcyeah it totally limits brl-cad
11:46.51louipci'm not too sure about that one
11:47.40louipcyou would still need some kind of draft editor, I don't trust computer generated drawings
11:48.12magesingif that is possible, then it's just a matter of writing a script to generate three orthographic views, then use some sort of external editor to add annotations
11:49.20magesingprobably easiest to make a series of tools for inkscape or the gimp to add the annotations to a monochrome drawing
11:50.35louipcbrlcad already has 2d sketch objects
11:50.46louipcsomething from that could be used
11:57.41magesinglouipc: "The rtedge and rthide commands are used for hidden-line renderings similarr to what you'd want for generating drafting documents." --http://brlcad.org/wiki/FAQ
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11:58.38magesingi.e. I can generate images with rt-edge and rt-hide then use the image editor of my choice to annotate the drawings
12:10.21louipcI'd opt for different cad software if I had to do that for every drawing though. heh
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13:51.38CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r34903 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c: Added movement support for the right arm, and made a single function for creating an arm, instead of one for left and right sides.
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15:20.08CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r34904 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c: Added poseable leg support, up to the thigh and calf, and made a makeleg function to create them.
15:23.41CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34905 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/killrefs.c: Update comments.
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16:32.14``Erikeffin' made me get a cast
16:54.59indianlarry/sb/ goto -40
16:55.07indianlarryoops
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17:24.46alecs1hi, archer fails to start with the following error: ERROR: Unable to initialize ArcherCore imagery
17:25.03alecs1what could it be?
17:26.00CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34906 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Mods related to Archer's undo (i.e. override commands that are not yet supported by undo).
17:33.43alecs1ah, I looked now in the archer script and there is no message like this one
17:34.09louipcodd
17:36.04louipcalecs1: it's in src/tclscripts/archer/LoadArcherLibs.tcl
17:36.06alecs1I'm doing a search in the source directory; google didn't find any message like this
17:36.32alecs1thanks, I'll take a look
17:40.07alecs1do you know what it means? I have next to 0 brl-cad and tcl experience
17:41.05``Erikarcher is a work in progress, not ready for consumption yet, last I heard... you might want to use mged instead
17:41.40louipclooks like it's looking for a tk add-on called 'tkimg'
17:41.48louipcif you're missing that it won't work
17:41.57alecs1thanks, I didn't know; I'll stick to mged then
17:42.27alecs1I'll for tkimg then; maybe it helps
17:54.37CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r34907 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c: Added poseable support for all the leg now, including feet.
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18:41.00jdolinerindianlarry you here?
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18:53.55CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34908 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ (Archer.tcl ArcherCore.tcl): Modified archer to ask the user to confirm save and revert requests.
19:11.29Ralithlouipc: it probably would be pretty easy to do something like rtedge with hidden lines dashed
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20:06.39CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34909 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcMathGrammar.h: FunctionGrammar added to the MathGrammar in preparation for Constraint Grammar definition
20:29.45elenastarseeker, are you here?
20:38.56elenabrlcad?
20:48.01``ErikI fed them to the pet squirrel
20:48.36``Erikwhat's up?
20:48.40elenahopes Erik is kidding
20:48.48``Erikit's a big squirrel
20:48.53elena:)
20:49.12elenaprobably got bigger after eating two mens.
20:49.30elenamen (no -s)
20:49.52``Erikboys, ya mean
20:50.00``Eriksits around being horribly old
20:50.26``Eriktechnically, I am a mentor (getting the t-shirt, anyways), is it something I may be able to help with?
20:50.40Ralithsolve my ogre/qt problem :D
20:50.48elenai wanted to ask them some suggestions about the metadata that I should/can get from a model.
20:51.01``Erikralith: stop using that c++ crap, problem solved :D
20:51.04Ralith:[
20:51.40``Erikmetadata? hm, title and units are probably the big ones, just be careful of .g files with many models, I'd imagine
20:51.40elenals -l provides some information about the objects.
20:51.49elenatree about the structure.
20:52.19elenaok. indeed, I forgot about units.
20:52.20``Erikthere're a few different naming conventions that have different meanings, so those might just need to be ignored
20:53.01elenaand since you're so kind, I have one curiosity
20:53.28elenai noticed today, that when using the console mode in mged
20:53.28elenaoutput goes to stderr.
20:53.40``Erikum, once thing ya see in real models that the army uses is there may be 4 seperate toplevel models of a single thing... depending on if it's csg or triangles, and if it's low resolution or high resolution modelling
20:53.50elenashould it go to stdout (errors and warnings to stderr)
20:53.56``Erikby console mode, you mean classic? "mged -c" ?
20:54.00elenayes.
20:54.51elenathis is in 7.14
20:54.52``Erikoutput of things like rt should go to stderr, I'd think... mged -c can be used in scripts where you want just the right stuff to go to stdout (sometimes to generate data to massage and feed back into mged)
20:55.10elenai used this
20:55.19elenamged -c something.g tops
20:55.30elenathat sent the output to stderr.
20:55.47elenano big problem. just curious about this decision.
20:56.04``Erikhrm, that doesn't feel right to me, may've been accidently altered with all the libged stuff :/
20:57.27``Erikyeah, it all goes to stderr for me, too hmmmmm
20:58.09Ralithshoud be easy enough to fix, right?
20:58.11``ErikI think that's one to ping brlcad for
20:58.14Ralithshould*
20:58.47``Erikyou'd think, but display type stuff is abstracted in twisted ways to cope with the tcl/C schism and stuff
20:58.56Ralith:/
20:59.23``Erikand winderz throws a monkeywrench into any simple/clean fd mgmt
20:59.45Ralithdamnit windows
21:00.08``Erik*shrug* windows isn't unix... everything else is unix :)
21:00.45``ErikI imagine haiku would have its own monkeywrench issues... BRL-CAD is historically a very unix program, starting on 43BSD
21:01.12``Erikbought his macbook to have a nice unix laptop with a snazzy gui
21:01.57Ralithyeah, but at least haiku would be sane about it.
21:02.11Ralithinstalled stupmwm to get a snazzy gui
21:02.18``ErikI d'no, I imagine it'd have, y'know, c++ involved... *duck* :D
21:02.24Ralith:P
21:03.03``ErikI used to be a big c++ fan, but got away from it and into C in '96-'97, then I got into things like smalltalk and now the c++ mockery of OO annoys me :D
21:03.24``Erikand it's easier to be negative and insulting than constructive O:-)
21:03.28Ralithis taking quite a liking to common lisp, and thus can sympathize
21:03.32Ralithheh
21:03.42``Erikyeah, but CL has its own warts
21:04.27RalithI'm interested.  What are they?
21:04.30``Erikis learning cl, web programming and emacs all at the same time, is apparently mentally masochistic
21:04.42RalithI have found that emacs and CL go well together
21:04.51``ErikI dislike the lisp1/lisp2 split, having to say #'func is annoying
21:04.55Ralithand there's a good bit of evidence that CL and webprogramming go well together too
21:05.03Ralithah yeah, that
21:05.07Ralithit
21:05.19Ralithit's a bit weird and a little inconvenient, but at least it's logical and consistent.
21:05.43Ralithand it certainly is nice to have roomy namespaces.
21:05.49``Erikthe documentation is scattered and poorly formatted, and while the third party stuff is insane in breadth and quality, it lacks a decent centralized search/install mechanism and often lacks any viable documentation
21:06.06Ralither
21:06.08Ralithasdf-install
21:06.14*** join/#brlcad sander^ (n=sander@c-66-235-35-214.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net)
21:06.27``ErikI used that for quite a bit, but then there're version knots
21:06.35Ralithand the hyperspec seems pretty good doc-wise for me, wrt. cl itself
21:07.07Ralithversion knots?
21:07.09``Erikfor example, ucw has many things that are ok from asdf, but some require the cvs/svn/darcs/git version
21:07.19Ralithah.
21:07.34Raliththat's just a matter of the asdf repo being outdated
21:07.39``Erikthinks if someone took the clhs, unfuglyd it and allowed user comments, a la php.net, that'd be awesome
21:07.47``ErikI might do that when I get some free time, in fact
21:07.51Ralithit is ugly, but it works.
21:07.54Raliththat'd be neat!
21:08.25``Erikit's also not the most newbie friendly community *shrug*
21:08.37Ralithit was probably written near the beginning of html's popularity, and considered 'good enough' as to need no updating since then.
21:08.45``Erikyeah
21:08.46Ralithhm? I've found #lisp to be a nice enough place.
21:09.08Ralithpeople are happy to explain concepts and such
21:09.12sander^Hi.. I saw on sourceforge.net that this project needs developers
21:09.34Ralithsander^: hullo.  More dev-work is indeed always good.
21:09.42``Erikyeah, they're usually decent if you don't ask stupid questions, but you start reading the flame lists and stuff, or try to get a breadcrumb trail started up, ...
21:09.59Ralithbreadcrumb trail?
21:10.20``Erikyeah, the sequence of things to research to get to the next level, that kinda thing
21:10.42RalithI think CL's main problem, and the main reason for its lack of popularity in this age of python and ruby and such, is that it has no one central community
21:10.50``Erikonce you know you want to go from a to b, they'll help you do that, but they won't say what c is
21:10.51sander^Ralith, Got any easy tasks I could start doing.. need some help with getting started tho.
21:10.59Ralithsander^: what's your experience?
21:11.46Ralith``Erik: throw together a prettified hyperspec and back that with a newsfeed and a decent forum, and you might go a good ways towards fixing that.
21:11.46``Eriksander^: and interests...
21:12.05sander^Ralith, I know c,java very well.. abit c++.. Im intrested in learning more c++
21:12.25Ralithsander^: yeah, it's inadvisable to put work in on code that you're not personally invested in; you'll burn out quick.
21:12.47RalithBRL-CAD is mostly C.
21:12.57``ErikBRL-CAD is mostly C, a little c++, a smidge of java... a wad of tcl... and some other stuff
21:13.29sander^I know tcl very well
21:13.40``Erikoh, I'm so sorry :(
21:13.42``ErikO:-)
21:13.44Ralithhehe
21:13.55Ralithsander^: so, again, what're your interests?
21:13.56sander^how much is a wad :p?
21:14.03Ralithquite a bit.
21:14.14``Erikit sounds like you have the background to dig in whereever you want, you just gotta let us know what your interest is :)
21:14.31``Erikalmost all of the MGED gui is tcl/tk with C backing the operations
21:15.07Ralithperhaps archer?
21:15.10``Eriksame with the new archer gui... the ogre/qt experiment is the odd one (and a gsoc project)
21:15.58sander^I can go with some c programming
21:16.01``Erikassumes sander^ has compiled and installed BRL-CAD, messed around with it some, raytraced something, etc?
21:16.13sander^No.. I should do
21:16.26sander^I just saw the post on sourceforge
21:17.17Ralithbut where do your *interests* lie?
21:17.57``Erikhehehe, this is open source, man, we're not going to TELL you what to do, we're going to help you find what you want to do, then help you go about doing it :D
21:18.37``Erikeffin' A, sf changed stuff around again
21:19.00Ralithit is prettier, though, gotta give them that.
21:20.00sander^I need to try this program out.. before I can say what my interests are
21:20.08Ralithdo that first, then :D
21:20.11``Eriksander^: consider these 3 urls; http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/TODO http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=105292 http://brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html
21:20.13Ralithafks for a bit
21:20.28``Erikdo the svn co, then glance over them while it compiles or something :)
21:23.24sander^Where do I find the source or whats the svn checkout url?
21:24.27sander^Error 500
21:24.28sander^We're sorry but we weren't able to process this request.
21:24.35sander^When I push "source"
21:24.38``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/SVN
21:24.59``Erik500? heh, sf broke their server :(
21:26.51``Erikyou will need automake, libtool, and the X development stuff (as well as a c/c++ compiler).
21:27.23``Erikonce it's checked out, run the "autogen.sh" script, then the usual ./configure && make all install
21:28.11``Erik(and please, if you see room for improvement on the wiki, ... :)
21:47.43sander^Why does autogen.sh take that long time?
21:48.09``Erikbecause it runs aclocal, autoheader, automake and autoconf
21:48.27``Erikautomake has to find and parse every Makefile.am in the system and generate Makefile.in files
21:49.07elenahei Erik, is there an easy way to supply to commands to mged in command line
21:49.09``Erik(that's compiling 256 buildsystem files)
21:49.23elenalike mged -c something.g "tops; title"
21:49.27``Erikecho 'cmd 1; cmd 2' | mged -c
21:49.33``Erikum, I think that can work
21:49.42``Erikor put it in a script and mged -c blah.g < myscript
21:50.49elena; didn't seem to work.
21:50.57elenaonly the last command is executed
21:51.03``Erikhm, might need to be newlines then :/
21:51.06elenai was able to do it with echo -e "title\\ntops" | mged -c spheres.g
21:51.31elenait just seemed a bit complicated
21:52.28``Erikyeah. I thought semicolon was the seperator :/
21:53.56elenathank you.
21:54.20``Erikohhhhhh, wait, classic uses its own parser, not the tcl interpreter
21:54.41elenaand?
21:55.16``Erik; is the tcl cmd seperator, I d'no if there's one built into the classic mode mged parser
21:55.54``Erikif you don't give it the -c, it should work, I think
21:56.09elenaI need to run it in a batch.
21:56.27elenaif I don't give it -c, it goes in bg
21:56.53``Erikhow old is your mged?
21:56.59elena7.14
21:57.03elenax86
21:57.54``Erikat some point, the default behavior of mged went from going background to staying in the fg, in support of various WM's
21:57.58elenahmm. same happens in non-classical mode, too
21:58.05elenai start mged
21:58.06``Erikyeah, feb of '08
21:58.10``Erik30246
21:58.25elenain the command win i type tops;title and only title is run
21:58.35``Erikhuh, weird
21:59.01``Erikyet another thing to fix
21:59.09elenai guess i'm moving from beginner to advanced level :)
21:59.53``Erikand kind enough to observe/ask these little things instead of just shrugging and moving on :)
22:00.35elenayou're too kind
22:00.46``ErikI know, and I'm too modest, too O.o *duck* :D
22:01.55sander^what do I need to install to get x11 support? Whats.. X development stuff?
22:02.42Raliththe headers
22:03.09Ralithin a debian-derived distro it'll be called x11-dev or similar
22:03.21``Erikdepends on the OS, something like Xlib-dev and Xi-dev would do most rhat/deb based leenewxes, I think
22:03.53sander^libx11-dev ?
22:04.00``Eriksounds right
22:04.20Ralith``Erik: perhaps it would be advisable to replace the classic parser with the tcl interp?
22:04.23sander^Im on ubuntu and debian
22:04.37Ralithlibx11-dev is almost certainly correct
22:05.06``Erikralith: the gui version gives the same results, I'm not sure what's going on with it
22:05.13RalithO.o
22:05.19Raliththat sounds undesirable.
22:05.22``Erikand I'm not going to dig into it while I'm sitting at home on sick leave enjoying the vicodin
22:05.34``Erikwhich is just about wearing off
22:06.10sander^configure: WARNING: X11 support is enabled but the Xi library was not found.
22:06.50Ralithdoesn't know what Xi is used for
22:06.57Ralithbut you can fix that by, you know, installing the Xi library.
22:09.57``ErikX intrinsics
22:10.11elenaerik, one more help?
22:10.20``Erikhrm?
22:10.43elenai recall I saw somewhere a way to get the output of a command and use it in another
22:10.58elenai want to do something like: tree `tops`
22:11.01``Erikinside of mged?
22:11.06elenayes.
22:11.14``Erikuhmmm, sure it wasn't tree [tops] ?
22:11.19elenamaybe I'm wrong and it wasn't mged.
22:11.29elenalet me test.
22:11.41``Erikit's a direct tcl interpreter, so anything that works in tcl should work in mged
22:12.02elenait says db_lookup([tops]) failed: [tops] does not exist
22:12.34``Erikhm, yeah, I'm dorking in tclsh
22:12.37``Erik<-- doesn't really know tcl
22:13.55elena:(
22:15.21``Eriktree [eval tops] ?
22:16.25sander^I cant find the xi lib
22:16.37``EriklibXi-dev ?
22:16.44``Erikdo you have /usr/include/X11/Xi.h ?
22:17.39elenastrange. it shows an error, yet it displays some of the objects.
22:17.51sander^Oh.. it actually was libXi-dev
22:18.29elenamged> tree [eval tops]
22:18.30elenadb_lookup(tops]) failed: tops] does not exist
22:18.30elenaellg
22:18.30elenaaxis/
22:21.06``Erik*shrug* I don't have the resources handy to figure that one out for ya, sorry :( tomorrow, I'll have access to my books
22:21.17sander^I dont have /usr/include/X11/Xi.h still after installing libxi-dev
22:21.43sander^And its also still complaining about xi dev even after I installed it
22:27.43elenano problem. thank you.
22:27.49sander^im just compiling without x11 support
22:27.55elenai'm still half way there :)
22:28.48sander^What downsides is it without x11 support?
22:29.12sander^no grafical interface?
22:31.35louipcno mged. You probably want that.
22:36.23louipcsander^: hmm I don't have Xi.h either
22:36.34louipcbut I do have libxi
22:40.37sander^strange that its complaining about it then
22:41.14louipcwhat was the message you got complaining about xi?
22:42.04louipc"X11 support is enabled but the Xi library was not found."?
22:42.09sander^configure: WARNING: X11 support is enabled but the Xi library was not found.
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22:48.29elenaeval tree [tops] seems to partially work.
22:49.01elenathe problem is that [tops] gets replaces with the string containing all the tops (not with a list of objects)
22:49.12elenadb_lookup fails again.
22:49.13sander^How long time does it take to compile everything?
22:49.24Ralithdepends entirely on your hardware.
22:51.10sander^From what to what?.. Like.. Can it take half an hour?
22:51.39``Erikanywhere from 5 minutes to 5 hours...
22:51.45Ralithfrom the next millenium to instantly.
22:51.51Ralithit depends entirely on your hardware.
22:52.00sander^okay
22:52.07RalithI suggest not attempting to use nothing but a pencil.
22:52.36``Erikdamn, ralith, still sore about that? we thought it was hilarious :D *duck*
22:53.16louipcsander^: do you have x11proto-input-dev installed?
22:53.29Ralith``Erik: at least I know x86 hex now.
22:53.37louipc/usr/include/X11/extensions/XI.h
22:53.42``Erikx86? damnit, boy, we said r2k!
22:53.45louipcis in that package
22:54.00``Erik(r2k is sexy assembly)
22:54.01Ralithyeah, but I didn't have the test hardware and I was too lazy to find a vm
22:54.12``Erikhttp://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~larus/spim.html  
22:54.16``Erikthere, there's your vm
22:54.17``Erik:D
22:55.11sander^louipc, yes.. I got x11proto-input-dev installed
22:58.57CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1520 10/wiki/More_Changelog: /* June, 17 - today */
23:16.16louipc/usr/include/X11/extensions/XI.h: #define XI_DATAGLOVE    "DATAGLOVE"
23:16.22louipcbwhahahha
23:21.39sander^/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -ltk8.5
23:21.52sander^collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
23:22.59sander^it fails on that when doing make
23:23.46louipcyou have tk 8.5?
23:23.50``Erikdid the configure stuff say that it was building tk or not?
23:29.48sander^now I installed tk-dev
23:30.25louipcI'm glad I don't use debian :P
23:31.31sander^Well.. im actually installing this on my ubuntu laptop without too many programs
23:31.44Ralithtk-dev won't help
23:31.48Ralithtaht's the headers; it's missing the library.
23:32.05Ralith(although tk-dev undoubtedly depends on tk, so it might work anyway)
23:32.18sander^Build Tcl ............................: yes
23:32.18sander^Build Tk .............................: yes
23:32.30Ralithsounds like a build system bug, then :/
23:32.44louipchm. if you have them installed it should say no (using system)
23:32.51Ralithhe doesn't
23:32.55Ralithhe's just now installing them, I think
23:34.49louipcI'm surprised no debianites have come along and spruced up the build files
23:35.36``Erikmade a debian/ build thingy a while back, but lost access to his debian box *shrug*
23:37.14sander^should it say yes here?: Build Tk .............................: yes
23:37.27Ralithdid it say that after you had installed tk?
23:37.29sander^I got tk installed.. and did configure once more
23:37.41Raliththen it shouldn't want to build its own.
23:37.51``Erikum
23:37.54louipcdid you install tcl too?
23:38.06``Eriktry doing a "make distclean", then do "./configure --enable-all" and see if it works then
23:38.14sander^I installed both tcl and tk
23:38.16Ralithlouipc: pretty sure tk depends on tcl :P
23:38.29louipcyeah it does
23:42.35sander^I need to go now..
23:43.05louipcsee you later
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090701

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04:07.09CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34910 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: elena found an odd bug in mged's command-mode parsing. semicolons are the separator but for some reason output of mged commands is being suppressed for all but the last command.
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04:12.43brlcadper elena's questions earlier: mged -c whatever.g "tree \[string trim \[ tops -n\] \]"
04:13.16brlcadhave to quote the globbing characters [], {}, & ?
04:14.27``Erikahhhh, that's right, forgot about that
04:15.14brlcadsemicolon should / does work .. but there's some sort of bug there
04:15.54brlcadmged -c test.g "puts hello ; puts world"  <= works for example
04:16.19brlcadeven interlaced with mged commands .. but for some reason mged commands aren't printing unless they're last
04:16.33``Erikwhat about the stdout/stderr issue?
04:16.35brlcadhave to trace it
04:17.08brlcadthat's mostly legacy, all textual logging goes through bu_log, which has always written to stderr
04:17.29brlcadwould be a pretty significant change so it's not been attempted yet
04:19.37brlcadthat was originally so the streamable tools could still log and send their data to a stream (e.g. for piping input to output on things like "pixhalve -s1024 some.pix | pix-png > file.png", and still seeing logged output)
04:19.55brlcadeverything uses the same logging mechanism so it goes to stderr
04:20.50brlcadnotes elena probably needs to read http://brlcad.org/wiki/SGI_Cube
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08:09.14CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34911 10/rt^3/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
08:09.15CIA-30BRL-CAD: change the data-type for color values from unsigned int to double (0 <= r/g/b <= 1)
08:09.17CIA-30BRL-CAD: although color values are stored as unsigned int this implementation detail should be hidden from the user
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08:47.52CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03Jdoliner 07http://brlcad.org * r1525 10/wiki/User:Jdoliner:
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16:02.59alecs1hi, does BRL-CAD support tolerancing? I couldn't find it in the docs
16:03.31d-lodepends on what you mean.  To what are you wanting to apply a tolerance to?
16:03.33alecs1(tolerancing as in gd&t, that's the more known buzzword)
16:04.11louipcmake this hole 1" dia +- .005"
16:04.54alecs1well, to components in the tree; but I'm no BRL-CAD expert either, just evaluating and asking if it's not in the docs
16:05.13louipcbrl-cad doesn't have that feature as far as I know
16:05.26louipcbut I'm no authority on it :P
16:06.03d-loI would say no, it doesn't support GD&T.
16:06.41alecs1thanks
16:06.46alecs1do you know of other open-source programs that support it
16:12.03CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34912 10/brlcad/trunk/ (11 files in 7 dirs): Add bbsize command per user request - reports a quick summary of how big the bounding box of an object is.
16:12.34louipcnope
16:12.50louipcqcad maybe... that's 2d though
16:18.16alecs1I see, thank you :)
16:23.23CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34913 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/ (Db.tcl Mged.tcl): Don't need the bbsize command support on obsolete tcl code.
17:02.38brlcaddefinitely do not support tolerancing
17:06.00brlcadstarseeker: unless I read the commit wrong, you missed the bbsize.c file
17:06.58starseekeraaah, nuts
17:07.00starseekersorry
17:07.40CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34914 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/bbsize.c: Yeah, it might help to add the key bbsize file.
17:07.56brlcadthx
17:08.04starseekernp :-)
17:38.13CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34915 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: fixed compilation support for mac os x 10.5, problem compiling with ogl support enabled (mac ld issue with /usr/X11/lib/libGL.dylib cyclicly referring to framework dylib)
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17:58.13CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34916 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcMathGrammar.h: fleshing FunctionGrammar 1/2
18:03.28jdolinerindianlarry whenever you read this, I think I've worked out the kinks in my algorithmic woos. But would love to talk about it with you, just to do some sanity checks.
18:08.23``Eriksanity check: you have none :D
18:08.43``Erik(which is why ya fit in here)
18:08.54jdoliner:D
18:09.09jdolinerit certainly feels that way these days
18:09.22indianlarrywhat you come up with Joe
18:09.23jdolinerI close my eyes and see triangles intersecting each other
18:09.58jdolinerk so we wanted to have a convention for which way the edge we return should point
18:10.39jdolinerand this convention should depend on the normals of both of the triangles we intersect
18:11.01indianlarryokay
18:11.23jdolinerso we decide that the edge will be parallel to (norm1Xnorm2)
18:11.56CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r34917 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c:
18:11.56CIA-30BRL-CAD: Added poseable support for the torso. Also made the arms and legs now properly position themselves and attach to torso.
18:12.01CIA-30BRL-CAD: Legs and arms are still not properly positioned when the body is rotated however.
18:12.01indianlarryfollow so far
18:12.03jdolinerso if we do this
18:12.22jdolinerthen when we have an edge and the triangle it came from
18:14.00jdolinerthen in triangle1 the (edgeXNorm) points to the internal side, in triangle2 it points to the external side
18:14.26jdolinerjust a fact of life that this is going to be reversed
18:14.41jdolinerbut the important part is that it'll be consistent
18:15.57jdolinerso if we take our corner jabbing into a triangle
18:17.27jdolinerwe would get a the trimming curve back with the lines s.t. the normal points the opposite direction of the faces normal
18:17.39jdolinerwhich signifies an internal face
18:18.20jdolineroh forgot to mention abut the output that we need to reverse the line for mesh1
18:18.50jdolinerbut yeah I'm confident in that case
18:19.36jdolinernow the trickiness comes when it hits an edge
18:20.23jdolinerso it now passes up which edge the intersection came from
18:20.33jdolinerso suppose we get back the line pq
18:21.06jdolinerand we know that point p came from line ab
18:21.10``Erikyuh oh, libpc issue, no boost lazy.hpp
18:21.40jdolinerthen we know that the lines to include are:
18:21.58jdolinerap and bp
18:22.37jdolinerbecause those are consistent with the direction of pq
18:23.11``Eriksrc/libpc/pcMathGrammar.h:42:41: error: boost/spirit/dynamic/lazy.hpp: No such file or directory
18:23.37jdolinerso really the only tricky part is that ab might have more than 1 point on it
18:25.13jdolinerso we basically need to record where these points are in a slightly more sophisticated way
18:25.36jdolinerwhich is just going to be a polyline that keeps them all in order and then we take the segments out of it at the end.
18:26.39indianlarryjust thinkin that basically any loop that contains an outside edge would in fact be an an outside edge and be ordered as such
18:27.50indianlarryare you making loops from your intersections yet
18:28.11indianlarryor just the list of intersecting segments
18:29.31jdolinersort of, I have the could all ready to go to make loops, but I need to implement the stuff I just mentioned to be able to pass it the right segments
18:30.40jdolinerbefore this I was just grabbing the segments however they came out and it worked great on them
18:33.02indianlarrymaybe not visualizing correctly
18:33.49indianlarrybut seems like you could lose ap or pb depending on the boolean logic of your combination
18:35.15jdolineryeah one of them won't be in the final result
18:35.24jdolinerone is internal and the other is external
18:36.07indianlarryyeah okay, do you keep seperate loop list for each face
18:36.35CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34918 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/boost/spirit/dynamic/lazy.hpp: missing lazy.hpp, now used by pcMathGrammer.h though might still be missing some other files
18:36.41jdolineryes
18:37.10jdolinerfor each face in the original mesh there's actually possible multiple face loops
18:37.52indianlarryyeah and an inner can probably turn into an outer after the combination...
18:38.18jdolinerhow do you mean?
18:39.07jdolineroh, well if we do Mesh A - Mesh B then the inners of B will be an outer of the result
18:39.27indianlarryis you cut a face in falf and there was an inner loop -- yeah
18:39.39jdolinerk yeah
18:39.46indianlarrysorrry slow typer
18:39.58jdoliner:) young nimble fingers
18:40.13indianlarrysounds similar to the nurbs loops
18:40.30jdolineryeah it's actually really elegant after we have all the faces pointing the right way
18:40.37indianlarryis the first loop the outer and the rest inner loops
18:41.01jdolinerwell couldn't there be multiple outers?
18:41.35jdolineran outer loop is just one that intersects a triangle edge correct?
18:41.51indianlarrynot sure how the meshes are handles but for the nurbs there's only one outer
18:42.12indianlarryi think multiple outers would be treated as seperate faces
18:43.39jdolinerokay I think I see what it means for nurbs
18:44.17jdolineris it just the curve along the outside of the defined surface?
18:44.18indianlarryare you looking at bots or meshed faces
18:44.50indianlarryyes the outer boundry of the face
18:45.18jdolinerI believe bots
18:45.46jdolineryeah it just has an array of faces which could occur in any order
18:46.26jdolineralthough there can be quads in the bag as well
18:47.13CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34919 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/boost/spirit/ (5 files in 3 dirs): add a few more missing boost files to unbreak the build after recent pcMathGrammer changes
18:58.42indianlarryif bots then probably don't need to worry about loops and such right
18:59.58jdolineryeah, I deal with things on a triangle by triangle basis
19:01.45indianlarrysorry joe i think i'm leading you astray
19:03.05indianlarryguess you still need to maintain proper facet orientations
19:03.51jdolineryes
19:04.51indianlarryi guess a polyline accross a facet -> many facets
19:05.32jdolineryes
19:06.30jdolinerI mean I can't do any sort of geometry internal to my faces, any detail I want to include has gotta be done with triangles
19:07.48indianlarryyep the corner into a face of a triangle turns into a handfull of facets
19:08.41indianlarrydid the BOOLE folks have walking algrithm for this already?
19:15.59indianlarryor were they just doing bezier ?
19:20.29CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34920 10/isst/ (24 files in 4 dirs): import of ISST
19:22.55elenabrlcad, are you here?
19:25.32CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34921 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: acronymize
19:32.04elena``Erik, did you feed the squirrel again?
19:45.27brlcadhi elena
19:45.35elenahi.
19:45.38brlcadfew comments about your work yesterday
19:46.07elenadid you see the log of the chat with erik?
19:46.13brlcadsemicolon is the command separater -- what you were trying should have worked
19:46.16brlcadyes
19:46.23elena:)
19:46.25elenaok
19:46.38brlcadnever leaves IRC .. that's what 'screen'+'irssi' are for :)
19:46.52elena:)
19:47.13brlcadyou can see the result with something like this:  mged -c test.g "puts hello ; puts world"
19:47.38brlcadthere is some odd issue causing output to be quieted (though I believe it does run the commands still)
19:47.58brlcadhaven't confirmed yet though
19:48.11brlcadsecondly, I presume you've seen http://brlcad.org/wiki/SGI_Cube  ?
19:48.19brlcadthat shows three specific ways to script mged
19:48.21elenabut "tops ; tops" doesn't work :(
19:48.29brlcadit does and it doesn't
19:48.37brlcadI believe it's just not printing the result
19:48.38elenai haven't.
19:48.42elenathanks for the tip.
19:48.49brlcadbut actually runs the commands
19:49.05elenai spent all day reading about tcl :)
19:49.19elenaok.
19:49.25brlcadto do the tree of tops that you suggested, it was simply a matter of escaping the globbing characters
19:49.27elenaand about the stderr output?
19:50.10brlcadfor example:  mged -c whatever.g "tree \[string trim \[ tops -n\] \]"
19:51.17CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34922 10/isst/trunk/src/ (gui.c main.c sql.c): fix headers
19:51.32brlcadby default, mged has a globbing evaluation mode enabled so that glob characters (*[],?{}.) are specially recognized so you can do pattern matching on objects, e.g. "draw *" or "draw [a-f]*"
19:52.04brlcadso you either have to turn globbing off (set glob_compat_mode 0) ... or ... escape the glob characters ala \[ \]
19:53.25brlcadbtw, if you had multiple top-level objects, that example won't work -- you'd need to iterate over each object and call tree
19:53.55elenai've noticed. this is why i started to read more about tcl.
19:54.16elenait seems to me that it will help with the drupal integration.
19:54.24brlcadsomething like: foreach obj \{ \[ string trim \[ tops -n \] \] \} \{ tree $obj \}
19:54.57brlcadsince you're in php land, it may very well be easier to just run one command at a time and do your string parsing on the php side
19:55.26elenaless fun.
19:55.32elenamaybe less efficient, too.
19:55.57brlcadit should be fairly insignificant compared to what all you're doing and how often this is called
19:56.09brlcadbut fun is a good motivator
19:56.10elenaok. i'll think about it.
19:56.11brlcad:)
19:56.43brlcadnote that the http://brlcad.org/wiki/SGI_Cube example shows those three ways I mentioned, but is actually just a posix shell script driving mged
19:57.15brlcadthe cat <<EOF section is one of the three I mentioned, where it pipes multiple commands to mged
19:57.53elenai'll study it.
19:57.59elenathank you.
19:58.28brlcadif you want to capture stderr more easily, you can feed stderr to stdout with 2>&1
19:58.42elenai did that.
19:58.48brlcadk
19:58.52``Erikwonders if turning off globbing in the .mgedrc would be good for an account that just runs mged batch-mode
19:59.27elena@Erik: doesn't matter, i could turn it off at the begining of the script.
19:59.29brlcadpossible, but it really just saves a couple keystrokes, which are embedded in a script anyways
19:59.40brlcadnow if your script gets big/unreadable ...
20:00.07``Erikor at the beginning of the script, yes... escaping all the glob characters in a nontrivial script can quickly become ugly
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20:51.54CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34923 10/brlcad/trunk/ (12 files in 5 dirs):
20:51.56CIA-30BRL-CAD: added near hit, near miss processing to shotline
20:51.58CIA-30BRL-CAD: also started to pull out debugging code and wrap into
20:52.00CIA-30BRL-CAD: 'brep' utility command in libged
21:16.46*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.203.84)
21:20.05CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r34924 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c: Added poseable support for the head and neck, so now the entire body has poseable support.
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21:25.22CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34925 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/themes/fireflystreamcom/template.php: Fixed error in theme comment wrapper
21:26.26CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34926 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/scripts/ (. 7.14/ 7.14/metadata.txt): Scripts for integration with Drupal
21:27.45CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34927 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/brlcad.module: Added suport for multiple BRL-CAD versions (script not yet ready). Multistep submission is incomplete, too.
21:30.11CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1526 10/wiki/More_Changelog: /* June, 17 - today */
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090702

00:44.55*** part/#brlcad alecs1 (i=alex@193.170.134.247)
01:33.06CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34928 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcMathGrammar.h pcMathVM.h): fleshing function grammar 1.5/2
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04:23.32yukonbobhello, cadheads
06:19.27CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1527 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Log for 2009-06-29/30
06:20.38Ralithbrlcad: it looks like I'm going to need to try to do pure Qt-in-Ogre, unfortunately.  Hopefully I won't have to reimplement much of Qt's backend.
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07:02.45CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34929 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/bbsize.c: allow compiling with less recent compilers too
07:06.26CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34930 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/CMakeLists.txt librt/CMakeLists.txt): sync with Makefile.am
07:09.16CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34931 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/Makefile.am: mention primitives/brep/brep_debug.h here
07:09.39CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34932 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/bbsize.c: the "i" variable looks like a vestigial holdover. simplify be eliminating.
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12:48.43CIA-26BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34933 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/brep.c: c89 representin'
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13:41.44CIA-26BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r34934 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS:
13:41.46CIA-26BRL-CAD: Added problem to BUGS file about mged and segfaulting on
13:41.48CIA-26BRL-CAD: a draw *.s
13:45.43CIA-26BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34935 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: note g_qa feature that will help prepare a .g file for adrt
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13:50.17brlcadwb
13:50.28starseek1rheh - thanks
13:50.34starseek1rtries to fix his nick...
13:50.36brlcadrecovers from the /var insanity
13:51.26starseekerthere we go
13:51.34starseekerwhat'd I miss?
13:54.21brlcadnothing serious
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14:38.27brlcadfolks may get kicked off screen
14:38.34brlcadtmp was cleared
14:39.57_clock_brlcad: I wrote a program to assemble many pictures of the same scene into one with less noise and possible bigger resolution
14:40.27_clock_brlcad: I wonder if it were possible to call rt with slightly differing offset/rotation and then assemble the pictures, rendering an aliasing that would have different ray pattern within each pixel
14:41.29_clock_Would it bring some advantage over existing BRL-CAD methods?
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14:56.10brlcad_clock_: that sounds like the existing jitter option
14:56.33_clock_brlcad: the jitter is random isn't it?
14:56.52brlcadyes, within the pixel cell
15:03.34``Erikmust... migrate... machine...
15:03.56``Erikin today, brlcad?
15:09.29brlcad``Erik: no
15:10.25``Erikpoop, almost no one is here, probably gonna end up skipping lunch and going home 30m early
15:19.11starseekerwonders why starseek1r reappeared...
15:19.31starseeker\q
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15:21.12starseekerbrlcad: any idea what's going on there?  I don't have any screen sessions except this one, afaik
15:22.06starseekerhmm
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15:23.38starseekerhah, there we go
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16:40.00d-loRalith: you awake?
16:42.23d-loguess not.  Okay then, when the conversion to QT is complete, will there be any need to keep RBGUI and MOCHA?
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17:22.37``Erik*burp*
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18:12.59d-loOh no... rt3 uses ogre and ogre uses boost..... damnit.
18:19.46madantd-lo: so :O ?
18:22.06``Erikboost-- ?
18:24.48d-loyeah, trying to get the rt3 module converted over to CMake and am getting an ogre build error relating to not finding a boost header.
18:25.01d-lomadant: trying very HARD to avoid boost in rt3
18:25.15d-losimpyl because, it aint that great.
18:28.50madantah :)
18:29.06madantusing it heavily in MathVM though :|
18:29.48madanthad no idea ogre needs boost
18:30.01d-lolooks like its using boost threads.
18:38.55``Erika thin veneer over pthreads?
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20:29.43``Erikhttp://tech.yahoo.com/news/pcworld/20090702/tc_pcworld/applepatchingserioussmsvulnerabilityoniphone
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21:57.49Ralithd-lo: Mocha and RBGui will indeed be no longer needed
22:20.54*** part/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-75-169.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
22:29.07CIA-26BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34936 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/scripts/7.14/metadata.txt: Script for metadata extraction.
22:29.45CIA-26BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34937 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/brlcad.module: Implemented connector to mged thought Tcl scripts and redirect.
22:31.18CIA-26BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1528 10/wiki/More_Changelog: /* June, 17 - today */
23:02.37brlcadso thx to SportChick's uptime obsession, those lost screen sessions are now actually restored
23:03.47brlcadyou can apparently recover from lost sessions with a -CHLD signal
23:03.52Ralithcool!
23:04.19brlcadtheir devs didn't even know this was possible until they went looking :)
23:05.50``Erikuptime obsession might involve migrating to a machine without a flakey hdd *cough* :D
23:06.05``Erik*duck*
23:06.48``Eriksigchld to fix an unreferencable screen session is nutty, htough
23:28.33brlcadthat wasn't flakey disk -- there were tens of thousands of e-mails, ran out of inodes on /var, probably web vulnerability somewhere attached to relay
23:30.01``Erikah, hm
23:30.24``Erik*shrug* try doing a "sudo portaudit -Fda", there's a reason to migrate
23:44.19brlcadnods nods nods
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090703

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090703

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00:29.25poolioahoy
00:34.18brlcadhowdy poolio
00:34.29brlcadhow's the summer going?
00:48.10Ralithbrlcad: I don't think I can get Qt-in-Ogre-in-Qt to work without modifying Qt.
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01:02.55starseekerRalith: my suggestionn is to see if you can get some combination of Qt+Ogre working, modding one or both if needed, and we'll go from there
01:06.06``Eriko.O
01:07.05``Erikstarseeker: fwiw, the 50's movies dude who died at 97 the other day was karl malden (a street car named desire... had everything but his name at lunch heh)
01:07.16pooliobrlcad: it's going great. Been working on using a variety of graphical models to decode neural activity :)
01:07.32starseeker``Erik: heh
01:08.11starseeker``Erik: is there a better way to approach the Qt + Ogre thing?
01:08.31``Erik"don't use qt"? :D *duck*
01:08.59``Erikis that astronomy program open source? would it make a good reference?
01:09.11``Erikstellarium?
01:10.02``Erikhttp://stellarium.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/stellarium/trunk/stellarium/
01:10.26``Erikit does mixing of ogl and qt in funky ways, right? is that 'nuff of a hnt to make it work with ogre? *shrug*
01:10.28``Erik<-- has no clue
01:12.08Ralithhm, good call
01:12.08Ralithforgot about that
01:12.10RalithI'll try to see how it does things without violating the GPL.
01:18.03starseeker``Erik: I dont' think it's using Ogre though
01:18.18``Erikno, not ogre, but some ogl backed thingy, something 'weird'
01:19.02``Erikhttp://www.ogre3d.org/wiki/index.php/QtOgre  
01:19.18starseekeryeah, that approach is suboptimal
01:19.46starseekerthey aren't using a shared opengl context
01:20.32Ralithoh right
01:20.33Raliththey aren't using ogre
01:20.39Ralithso they probably don't address the problem in the first place
01:20.41Ralithstill, worth a look
01:24.46starseekerRalith: can you get it to work if you mod Qt?
01:25.33Ralithstarseeker: I can try a few more things, certainly, but is that really desirable?
01:30.39starseekerif you can demonstrate it, we can get ahold of someone on the Qt dev staff and see if they would be interested in making it a default ability
01:31.23Ralithalright
01:31.35RalithI'll give that a go, then, since it would be awfully nice to use the existing code.
01:35.27starseekeris curious how extensive the mods would be or whether it would mean doing an "Ogre backend" to go with the opengl and raster backends
01:36.43Ralithnothing extensive at all, at least with the ideas I plan on playing with
01:36.54Raliththe 'ogre backend' is the worst-case Qt-in-Ogre solution.
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08:05.08CIA-26BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34938 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h:
08:05.10CIA-26BRL-CAD: initialized "dist" variable with a hopefully reasonable value
08:05.12CIA-26BRL-CAD: ... and my editor removed some trailing whitespaces too
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08:16.39CIA-26BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34939 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp:
08:16.48CIA-26BRL-CAD: fixed crash in MS Windows
08:16.52CIA-26BRL-CAD: decrementing an iterator and testing for end() does not make much sense
08:16.56CIA-26BRL-CAD: the algorithm needs probably a review
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14:38.17``Erikheh "belegte brote"... "occupied bread" O.o
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18:41.36CIA-26BRL-CAD: 03Poessel 07http://brlcad.org * r1529 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: Added arb8
18:44.21CIA-26BRL-CAD: 03Poessel 07http://brlcad.org * r1530 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: Added example
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20:02.05CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34940 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcMathVM.cpp pcMathVM.h): Function Definition Node (MathVM) method for user-defined functions
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20:19.39madantRalith: how's the qt ogre situation ?
20:20.12Ralithmadant: Ogre's starting fights every time I put it in the same room as Qt.
20:20.49madanthaha :)
20:21.08madantd-lo was saying ogre needs boost threads ?
20:21.18Ralithshrugs
20:21.23Ralithogre has a variety of dependencies
20:21.30Raliththat's not the major issue (imo)
20:21.36Raliththe major issue is that it doesn't cooperate :P
20:21.54madantnothing more disastrous than non-cooperative softwares ;)
21:01.18*** join/#brlcad madant (i=cb7baf0b@gateway/web/freenode/x-c544cc240faff519)
22:43.15``Eriksurvival of the fittest software, aw yeah, two programs enter, one program leaves
22:43.26brlcadheh
22:43.54``Erikcorewars on a meta-scale
23:00.20CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34941 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/ (brlcad.module scripts/7.14/metadata.txt): Metadata retriving completed (tcl scripts for and Drupal/PHP processing).
23:02.48CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1531 10/wiki/More_Changelog: /* June, 17 - today */
23:05.41CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34942 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/brlcad.module: Hide metadata form fields in submission form (their values are filled in automatically).
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090704

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090704

00:51.45*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-196.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
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05:58.26CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34943 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/brlcad.module: Rewrite php-mged integration (from exec to proc_open/proc_close) to allow more flexibility, working dir, and parameter pass.
06:01.32CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1532 10/wiki/More_Changelog: /* June, 17 - today */
09:19.40CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34944 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcMathVM.cpp pcMathVM.h): MathVM : Stack operator overloading
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10:37.30CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34945 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcMathVM.cpp: taking into account assign node in the MathVM stack evaluation
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11:43.02``Erik*yarn*
12:23.35CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r34946 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcMathVM.cpp: OrNode methods for MathVM
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13:22.00CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34947 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcMathGrammar.h pcMathLF.h pcMathVM.h pcParser.h): mark deprecated headers in source
15:24.28``Erikder mann wacht auf... heh, sounds like "the man whacked off" O:-)
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19:32.39CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34948 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (24 files in 3 dirs): collapse libtexture into librender
19:37.20``Erik*bored*
20:17.16CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34949 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/ (brlcad.module scripts/7.14/raytrace.txt): Tcl script and Drupal code/forms for raytracing models (currently during submit, ie no queueing)
20:38.48alecs1hi, I'm trying to install in a custom location, so I did ./configure --prefix=destination
20:38.56alecs1but I get the following error at install:
20:38.59alecs1libtool: install: error: cannot install `libstepcore.la' to a directory not ending in /usr/brlcad/lib
20:39.40alecs1my knowledge of autotools stops at using --prefix=destination, so I couldn't even understand the discussions found with google
20:40.28alecs1do you know if other options should be added at configure or make?
20:41.00``ErikO.o does it do that in the src/other/step directory when you're installing?
20:43.02alecs1actually yes, make[6]: Entering directory `/home/alex/programs/brl-cad/brlcad/src/other/step/src/clstepcore'
20:43.14``Erikdid you run ./configure without the --prefix flag at some point? (could be that there's a stale file screwing things up?)
20:43.43``ErikI don't see anything in the configure.ac or Makefile.am that'd try to force libtool to use a certain dir :/
20:45.04alecs1yes, I did run the configure without when I installed it first system-wide
20:45.09alecs1ok
20:45.37``Erikmebbe if you rm -rf'd the source directory, re-extracted the tarball and tried again?
20:45.45alecs1so I do a make clean and regenerate the configure from autogen
20:46.16``Erikd'no if clean will do it, distclean should. autogen.sh shouldn't be needed
20:47.12alecs1there was no configure when I pulled from svn, but otherwise I got the idea
20:47.14alecs1thanks
20:47.23``Eriknp, good luck o.O
20:48.13CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34950 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/brlcad.module: Allow metadata gathering and raytracing on model updates.
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20:57.43CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34951 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/brlcad.module: Make thumbnails similar to database they were generated from.
21:09.27CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34952 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/brlcad.module: cleanup of mged-php integration code
21:25.03CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34953 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/brlcad.module: Implemented settings to allow multiple sizes images.
21:31.17CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34954 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/brlcad.module: Hide image settings in submission form (images are generated automatically)
21:52.16CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34955 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/brlcad.module: Make thumbnails similar to database they were generated from even for newly uploaded databases.
22:07.39CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1533 10/wiki/More_Changelog: /* June, 17 - today */
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090705

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090705

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07:19.36CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34956 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/brlcad.module: Allow users to upload own raytracing images of the models (in addition to the automatically generated ones).
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08:08.10CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34957 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/imagecache/ (17 files in 2 dirs): Imagecache module (5.x-2.4) initial commit
08:10.17CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34958 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/thickbox/ (23 files in 2 dirs): Thickbox module (5.x-2.1) initial commit
08:20.17CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34959 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/devel/ (35 files in 5 dirs): Devel module (5.x-1.1) initial commit
08:26.50CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34960 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/scripts/7.14/raytrace.txt: Update raytracing script to compensate for blank edges.
09:46.19CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34961 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/themes/fireflystreamcom/style.css: Inline thumbnail preview images.
10:45.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34962 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/brlcad.module: Refactor processing mechanism to use flag module instead of nodequeue module.
11:36.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34963 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/brlcad.module: Completed queue processing implementation (on cron job for now and without time limits).
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15:11.40CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34964 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/token/ (token.info token_node.inc): Token update (5.x-1.13)
15:17.14``Erik"raytracing signed distance functions" http://sebastiansylvan.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!4469F26E93033B8C!173.entry
15:21.24CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34965 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/update_status/ (24 files in 2 dirs): Update_status module (5.x-2.3) initial commit.
15:24.26CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34966 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/ (37 files in 33 dirs): Drupal core update (5.19)
15:47.33CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34967 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/brlcad.module: Fixed queueing bug for new models (no nid is defined on submit event)
17:29.54CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34968 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/filefield/filefield.module: A hacked fix for the filefield module to clean up files upon deletion.
17:48.20CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34969 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/brlcad.module: Provide feedback message related to post submission processing (queueing).
17:52.14CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34970 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/ (brlcad.info brlcad.install brlcad.module): Update of BRL-CAD custom module settings and dependencies.
18:52.29CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34971 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/conv/Makefile.am src/conv/g-egg.1 src/conv/g-egg.c): added panda3d egg format
19:21.10CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r34972 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/brlcad.module: Implemented watchdog messages for queue processing.
19:40.38*** join/#brlcad elena (n=elena@89.136.118.141)
19:40.43elenahi
19:41.13elenabrlcad or starseeker, are you here?
19:42.32elena``Erik?
19:47.15``Erikhrm?
19:47.35elenahi. do you have 1 min?
19:47.49``Erik<-- sets a countdown timer to 60 seconds
19:47.50``Erik:D
19:48.01``ErikI have several minutes, actually
19:48.06elenado you have an account on brlcad.org?
19:48.14``Erikja
19:48.22``Erikis it not responding?
19:48.23elenai only need 1 for now. i'll take the rest later :)
19:48.30elenait's responding.
19:48.45elenaI was just wondering if brlcad is installed on it?
19:48.52elenai can't seem to find it.
19:49.21``Erikdoesn't seem so
19:50.12``Erikhrm, the ports directory is blasted and the os is ancient, how much of BRL-CAD do you need? just rt?
19:50.14elenai'll try to install it in my home dir then.
19:50.30elenamged and rt.
19:50.41elenapix-png and dependencies, too.
19:51.02``Erikhrm, ok, I'll co the last stable and see if I can insatll it to /usr/brlcad/
19:51.33``Erikactually, I'll just grab current
19:51.34elenathank you.
19:52.08elenai wanted to install the latest tbz
19:52.30``Erik(need to get migrated to the new machine, the lack of space and lack of updates are starting to hurt)
19:52.31elenai just reading about it. i never installed anything on freebsd before.
19:53.00``Erikum, when we were running out of hard drive space, I removed the src and ports directories... assuming migration would happen "real soon now"
19:53.30``Erikso installing or updating anything would be very manual and likely break stuff :(
19:53.50``Erikhave you tried using the new machine?
19:54.19``Erikguessing not as you don't have an account there :)
19:54.48elenai didn't.
19:58.29``Erikbah, stupid docbook crap
19:58.49elenahei, don't worry about it.
19:59.08``Erikit's going, it's just taking a long time to co
19:59.17elenai don't want to eat up your time. i'll try to get it done myself.
19:59.31``Erikmeh, I'm just watching a crappy movie on tv anyways
19:59.58elenai switched it off. it was a stupid movie, too, but it kept distracting me.
20:01.46``Erik"spiderman 2.1" here
20:02.02elena2.1?
20:02.14``Erikthat's what the tvguide says
20:02.22elenaI got the 7.10 in my home dir if you want.
20:02.27elenawe could us that.
20:02.36``Erikah, extended verson of spiderman 2
20:02.56elenaoh. I could be spiderman 3 alpha release :)
20:03.03``Erikhttp://dvd.ign.com/articles/772/772560p1.html
20:03.10``Erikautoreconf is running now
20:03.19elenaare you in us?
20:03.45``Erikyes, near baltimore... work in the same office as brlcad, starseeker, indianlarry, etc...
20:04.27elenahow did you spent yesterday?
20:04.31elenaany party?
20:05.12``Eriksat around, watched tv, coded a little, drank a 'brown cow' and went to sleep O.o no partying or celebration, though I did watch the fireworks briefly
20:06.00elenanot too tired then :)
20:06.27``Erikheh, no, less tired that most days :)
20:06.57elenagood. some rest is nice.
20:13.57``Erikconfigure running now
20:20.29``Erikcompiling
20:21.22elenabrb
20:21.47elenaback
20:27.53*** join/#brlcad alecs1 (i=alex@193.170.134.154)
20:44.20elenadid it finished?
20:44.32elenadid it finish?
20:45.55``Erikstill in the src/other dir
20:46.39``Erikit's not a terribly fast machine, overloaded with poorly written SQL and php smashing all over, plus a couple far overburdened irssi processes, and I nice'd the build.. it'll take a while :)
20:47.28``Erikinterrupts and starts compiling the minimal set
20:49.18*** part/#brlcad alecs1 (i=alex@193.170.134.154)
20:55.37CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1534 10/wiki/More_Changelog: July 5 activities
20:55.56elenait could benefit from a php optimizer
20:58.36``Erikthe machine? it'd benefit from some analysis of the sql statement, saved prepared statements, moving away from php to optimized compiled modules for heavy lifting, and people moving from irssi to bx O.o O:-)
20:59.16``Erikhas been looking at using optimized common lisp as an application server for web stuff
21:00.05elenathen it would be too fast :)
21:01.01``Erikheh, no such thing :) but it's definitely much more pleasant to work in than php... and I couldn't even imagine doing cgi and shtml/ssi anymore
21:01.56``Erik(for some reason, I'd gotten myself under the impression that 'more' was a python beastie like on django or something at some point, was surprised to see the drupal stuff there... musta confused myself at some point)
21:05.26elenai didn't learn python (yet) :(
21:07.02``ErikI'm in the process, but only due to panda3d
21:07.46``Erik<-- wrote an exporter to generate the panda3d format from BRL-CAD geometry this morning O.o BRL-CAD work on a weekend, I must be going insane
21:08.09elena:D
21:23.18``Erik24 degrees, nice breeze... if it weren't for noisy children with noisy toys, this'd be a great day to sit out in the grass :/
21:47.50``Erikrt is installed
21:48.03elenathank you.
21:48.25``Erikstill working on mged
22:06.24CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34973 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/Makefile.am: add libgcv to dependancy list
22:07.46``Erikmged is installed
22:15.36CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34974 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/Makefile.am: add libpc to dependancy list
22:17.20``Erikhrm, pix-png is installed, I THINK it'll work, but I'm not sure... can't compile libpc, so can't install the entire util dir
22:18.30elenait complains about libtcl8.5.so
22:18.37elenamged, too.
22:19.29``Erikexport LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/brlcad/lib
22:20.01elena:)
22:20.34``Erik(not sure if I messed something up or if it's just a facet of that OS and how it deals with rpaths)
22:21.09``Erikwas outdated in 2004... O.o
22:55.11*** join/#brlcad alecs1 (i=alex@193.170.134.154)
23:01.10Ralithwhy does BRL-CAD like to live in its own dir, anyway?
23:01.45``Erikfile name conficts, mostly
23:02.11Ralithah.
23:02.17``Erikcentos, for example, has /usr/lib/librt.so
23:02.27Ralithyeah, that came to mind
23:02.54Ralithevery time I build g3d I get a warning wrt. that
23:03.00``Erikhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d8629591
23:03.20``ErikI think libbn.so exists in some old crypto package
23:03.46``Erikand then there's the whole tcl/tk/incrtcl/tkimg mess
23:04.07Ralithother packages have taken the approach of naming things like libbrlcad-rt.so
23:04.10``Erik(which really needs to be fixed)
23:04.22Ralithand yeah, the tk situation is addressable
23:04.24``Erikwhat other packages?
23:04.42Ralithuh
23:04.45Ralithat least, I think some have
23:04.48Ralithnone come to mind right away
23:05.01``Erik*shrug*
23:05.12RalithOgre takes the approach of sticking a subdir in $PREFIX/lib/
23:05.16Ralithnot to resolve conflicts, though
23:05.37Ralithprobably just because the lib names were already getting too long
23:05.57``Erikthrow in that it comes from the classic unix days where non-trivial suites took their own directory (/opt/motif /opt/oracle ...), and then all these other programs popped up stealing our names, *shrug* why bother changing it?
23:06.20Ralithisn't advocating changing it, just observing a few different solutions.
23:06.36``Erikone of my old projects has its own $PREFIX/lib/$PACKAGE/ dir, but that was more to keep things together as it does bunches of dlopen/dlsym evilness
23:07.24``Erik(pluggable frontends and backing stores, each lib implements the same function names, a tiny shell picks which one to use and wires it in)
23:07.40``Erikcuz I thought I was badass in '99 or '00 O:-)
23:07.49Ralithhehe
23:07.54Ralithexcessive dynamicness is underrated
23:08.02Ralithit's one of the things I love about lisp.
23:08.10``Erikwell, it allowed me to do some crazy shit very very quickly
23:08.18Ralithlike what?
23:08.45``Erikhow many people do you know writing full MUA's with gtk, gnome, and curses interfaces and able to store in mysql, postgresql, mdir, mspool, ...
23:09.15``Erikand then make a dozen tiny utilities in just a dozen or two lines without touching existing installed code while it chunks along
23:09.18alecs1hi, where's a good place to post some questions about the relation between models and the production line?
23:09.34``Erikwhat do you mean by "production line"?
23:09.42Ralith``Erik: Sounds like fun. gtk and gnome were different interfaces?
23:10.11alecs1I'm specifically interested in the way bonnets and complex shapes are manufactured
23:10.17``Erikralith: yes, gtk first, then gnome as I learned it (gnome was very much in flux at the time... um, this was around 0.10 to 0.30)
23:10.31Ralither, what's the difference?
23:10.36alecs1and if there's some sculpting process of creating a "press" automatically from the CAD model
23:10.42Ralithisn't gnome just a DE that uses gtk?
23:11.17alecs1because of non-native english I don't really find results on google
23:12.04``Erikalecs1: I'd imagine most are stamped into shape, and if you have gcode or something, you might be able to use a CNC mill or something to generate the mold/stamp? *shrug* BRL-CAD isn't terribly tied to CAM stuff, we're more in the CAE area
23:12.31Ralithfor the time being, anyway.
23:12.35``Erikralith: yeah, but funky wrappers and stuff to generate code... like the menu is a metalanguage that goes through a parser instead of building by hand gtk style
23:12.43Ralithah.
23:12.56``Erikinstead of making a window and putting stuff in it, you define a "GNOME_app" or something
23:13.59Ralithsounds very elaborate
23:14.00``Erik(kinda like how OGRE sits ontop of opengl, I guess?)
23:14.44Ralithogre's is probably a much deeper abstraction.
23:14.54Ralithgiven that it can sit on top of DirectX just as happily
23:15.06alecs1thanks, could you tell me some more key-words for finding the machines that press the sheet metal to make the external body parts?
23:18.27``Erikrm, "brake" "press" "panel beating" mebbe a question like "how are car panels made"
23:31.11alecs1thank you, I think I found enough material :)
23:31.23*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
23:34.17``Erikw00t
23:52.26Ralithwuut
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090706

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090706

00:35.51*** part/#brlcad alecs1 (i=alex@193.170.134.154)
02:40.54starseekerRalith: any luck with QT/Ogre?
02:42.08Ralithstarseeker: not quite yet; there turned out to be more posisbly relevant functions than I expected.
02:42.11Ralithworking through them now.
02:43.25Ralithisn't quite sure how qgraphicsscene and qgraphicsview relate
02:43.34Ralithand I haven't worked out how to use gdb reliably on C++ yet.
02:46.19``Erikgdb still isn't c++ friendly? O.o
02:47.13RalithI dunno, I probably am just misusing it
02:47.26``Erikhttp://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/pasp/Dealing_C_gdb.html
02:47.39Ralithit demangles names and basic stuff like that fine
02:47.44RalithI just have trouble getting it to break on class member functions
02:47.59``Erikline# breaks don't do it?
02:48.14Ralithhuh?
02:48.16Ralithoh
02:48.19Ralithdidn't try that >_>
02:48.23``Erikheh
02:48.28Ralithdidn't know gdb could do that, even.
02:48.39``Erikyeah, break file.cxx:42
02:48.39Ralithfirst, though, food!
02:48.42Ralithcool, thanks
02:48.59``Eriktends to use line # more than function name
02:49.06Ralithprobably will now that he knows it
03:05.16Ralithugh, qt builds slow.
03:08.39starseekeryeah, line # breaking works better for me in c++
03:09.15Ralithit's packages like qt that I wish would use cmake
03:09.19Ralithso I'd have some idea how far along it was
03:11.26louipcls
03:11.28louipcbah
03:23.28*** join/#brlcad pacman871 (n=pacman87@pool-173-74-57-16.dllstx.fios.verizon.net)
03:54.23Ralithreaids paradigms of artificial intelligence programming while he waits.
03:54.34Ralithtrace is a really neat function :D
04:18.37Ralithstarseeker: line number breaking works within every instance of a class (for non-static funcs), right?
05:28.13Ralithwoo, qt rebuilt!
05:54.52Ralithargh.
05:56.04Ralithit looks like I'm going to have a very hard time building with a custom Qt without uninstalling my system one
05:58.32Ralithtries a really dirty hack
06:04.11Ralithdamn.
06:13.22Ralithhack seems to work, but I'm not getting anywhere with g3d.
06:30.17*** join/#brlcad elena (n=elena@92.86.0.28)
06:31.19elenahi
06:32.06Ralithhullo
06:34.08Ralithwell crap
06:34.16Raliththat just about exhausts my Qt modding ideas
06:34.20Ralithno luck there either
06:39.16*** join/#brlcad Evgen (n=NUser@62.33.59.254)
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08:25.21*** join/#brlcad cosurgi (n=cosurgi@atak.bl.pg.gda.pl)
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10:02.44*** join/#brlcad elena (n=elena@89.136.118.141)
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11:35.27d-loMerning all.  *READREADREAD*
11:42.39d-loRalith / madant:  Was just annoyed that ogre had a dep to boost, thats all.  Personal preference.
11:54.35d-loRalith: Thanks for dropping a few comments here and there in irc and the wiki.  Keep that wiki log going, so we/I can track whats going on.  It will also help people who want to chip in advice not tell you something you already tried.  I know that frustrates me when people do that :/
12:15.50``Erikd-lo: the server side thingymajigger you were looking at was projectdorkstar? (saw mention of someone looking to combine panda3d with dorkstar)
12:16.17d-lowhat thingymajigger?
12:16.23``Erikserver side game mgmt
12:17.16d-loHrm, I am at a loss.  I don't remember looking at projectdorkstar...
12:17.22``Erikdarkstar, rather
12:17.23``ErikO:-)
12:17.33``Erikhttp://projectdarkstar.com/
12:17.42d-loah, havne't really looked at that in a while.
12:20.03``Erik*shrug* just noticed it mentioned and went "huh, that looks real familiar"
12:20.25d-lokk, thanks!  I will book mark it and look for that panda3d reference.
12:26.09``Erikdoes shadowbane do mob ai on the server?
12:26.34``Erikor, did it, rather O:-)
12:26.52d-loHeh, calling it AI would be rather generous.
12:28.25``Erikheh, well, yeah, but you know what I mean
12:28.56d-loa bit.
12:29.15d-loIts one of the major issues we are looking to rectify with the Emu.
12:29.38``Erik<-- was pondering how to 'share the love' of ai computation time with clients that could arbitrarily disconnect
12:29.55d-loOh, so kinda like AI at home?
12:30.00d-loerr AI@Home?
12:30.28``Erikif you have a group of half a dozen people whacking on a baddy and someone crashes or disconnects when they're housing the ai for it, it'd be retarded for the mob to simply freeze up for the other players
12:31.45``Erikgame ai has to respond fairly quickly and have some randomness, so I d'no if packet bundling across multiple hosts like an @home is pragmatic
12:32.26_clock_I think Artifical Intelligence is not a good approach to model human behaviour
12:32.29``Erikbut doing ai for 10000 mobs, plus all the message management, plus state persistence, don't wanna overload the server
12:32.30d-loWhat about redundant calcs?  2 or 3 of the same calc on machines.  First one to return a result is used.
12:32.44_clock_I think we won't move from place until we master AS - Artificial Stupidity.
12:33.10``Erikif(random() > .5) mob->special1(); else mob->special2();   <-- cuz of that
12:33.13``Erik?
12:33.28``Eriksorry, misread
12:33.52d-loYeah, I mistyped a bit too.  I ment several different machines performing same calc for redundancy.
12:34.25``Erikhm, latency issues, I guess... two machines calc and start doing their thang, send to the server to redistribute, do you wait the .8 seconds on all machines for the mob to hop to the appropriate state?
12:34.31*** join/#brlcad docelic__ (n=docelic@78.134.207.99)
12:35.37``Erik_clock_ we're not talking about making a single smart 'ai', we're talking about scaling to a buttload of stupid videogame ai's :D mmorpg style
12:37.24_clock_``Erik: again I contribute to a discussion I haven't read much about :)
12:38.43d-loI would imagine there would have to be minimum Calculational ability and network latency requirements in order for a 'node' to be accepted on the AI Compute 'cloud'
12:38.48``Erikmebbe the 'repeatably random' notion from upstairs actually DOES have a practical use
12:39.42``Erikcustom random function, each mob has its own seed/state for the function...
12:40.18``Erikwith an occasional key packet to make sure everything is sync'd up
12:41.04``Erikor mebbe it's not the pig and I'm burning cycles thinking about the wrong thing :D
12:41.28d-loServer side has final say on the sync for the simultaneous calcs, correct?
12:41.39``Erikserver is never wrong
12:41.54``Erikto prevent abuse
12:42.59d-loRight, but putting AI in the hands of the 'Enemy' still makes me quesy.
12:43.12``Erikhaving the clients periodically send "this is what I think is happening" packets and having the server do a quick check might be an effective way of rooting out cheaters
12:43.50``Erik"wow, you sent a dozen bunk state packets in the last 60 seconds, why don't you take a breather for an hour disconnect();"
12:45.01``Erikmeh, an amusing thought exercise, but optimizing vapor in the end :/
12:45.27``Erikdidja get time to work on your server component over the weekend?
13:00.52d-losorry, got disctracted... 'server component' ?  SBEmu or GS?
13:06.37``Eriksbemu
13:06.46``Erikit's my rdo, soz I'm not thinking work O:-)
13:06.54d-loRight on.
13:07.04d-loI am at work and having trouble thinking work. :)
13:07.09d-loA bit.
13:07.13d-loMostly infrastructure now.
13:07.22*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-196.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
13:07.41d-loSeeing as I have found myself in the Dev Team Lead, Design Team Lead and overall PM.....
13:08.05d-loannoying since that means less time for code.
13:08.05``Erikyeah, been there, done that heh
13:08.38d-loI think the 4th weekend was poor timing for spinning up the SBEmu project, but thats the way the cards fell.
13:08.45``ErikI started working on a freebsd driver for nvidia cards long ago, other people joined the cause and I ended up doing less and less code, more and more dealing iwth people and with nvidia
13:08.56d-loWorking to make the Design team as autonomous as possible.
13:09.25``ErikI assume all the volunteers are code monkeys?
13:10.09d-loAnyone who doesn't have code skills but are seemingly mature enough to write up a decent Application are being used on the design team.
13:10.21d-loThey are the ones who are going to formalize the existing SB game processess.
13:10.42d-loaka Class.Race restriction tables, etc.
13:10.53d-loall that junk that us Devs don't really wanna do :)
13:10.58``Erikimagines that with an accessable vcs, irc channel and skeleton to start from, it'll be fairly self-organizing
13:11.17``Erikright, coders aren't glorified data entry clerks O:-)
13:11.45d-loThats what I am hoping.  Now that the holiday weekend is over, I am hoping things will get rolling.
13:11.49``Erik"make the target modellers do it, not our problem" "butbutbut" *sigh* :)
13:12.23``Eriktoo bad ya picked c++ *duck* :D
13:13.35d-lolol.  We have a good solid plan now.  Your comment on Java got me thinking and fired off a discussion on the boards.
13:14.09d-loJava Crypto doesn't play right with the SB Client, so we need to *at least* have a C/C++/openSSL proxy running in the server suite.
13:14.23``Erikso that means you're looking to do it in CL using iolib and cl-prevalence (or elephant? or rucksack?)
13:14.25``Erik:D
13:14.56d-loWe've rounded up a good team of Pascal 'grammers and are ready to have at it! =D
13:15.41``ErikI thought I was clever thinking up an image/event system for fast data storage only to find a java implementation from a few years ago, and a paper from '87 about the idea
13:16.21d-lodoh!
13:16.27``Erikheh, I've seen people try to write quake style engines in a combination of pascal and assembly... ahhh, the bad old days of efnet #opengl :)
13:16.28d-loso... did they confirm it was a good idea?
13:17.00``Erikfor a data set that can stay in memory, it's a really nice solution *shrug*
13:17.20``Erikwhen you start looking for bigger data sets, replication, etc, it starts falling apart
13:17.58``Erikbut it's sexier than the orm approach
13:18.17d-loheh, true :)
13:19.44``Erikhttp://www.prevayler.org/
13:26.09d-logood link.  thanks :)
13:28.55``Erikis somewhat amused that BRL-CAD does not compile on brlcad.org :)
13:29.26``Erik(c++ template fudgetry in libpc)
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15:29.05elenastarseeker?
15:34.03d-loHe's around, what's up?
15:44.41elenahi.
15:44.47starseekerhey elena
15:44.52elenajust requesting some help
15:44.56starseekersure, what's up?
15:45.19elenai need some help with setting up brlcad on the server.
15:45.33elenaErik did it for me yesterday
15:45.53starseekerOK...
15:45.54elenabut there's on more variable LD_LIBRARY_PATH that needs to be set.
15:46.16starseekeryou mean in the system LD_LIBRARY_PATH/
15:46.19starseeker?
15:46.34elenayes. i guess.
15:46.52elenain my account, erik showed me to use export .....
15:46.53starseekerdepending on how you're launching things, you should be able to set that locally
15:46.57starseekerright
15:47.05elenabut i need it to work in apache's account, too.
15:47.11starseekerah
15:47.44``Erikhrm, php doesn't have a setenv() equivalent?
15:48.06``Erik(once the migration happens, this problem disappears, btw)
15:48.12elenahi Erik.
15:48.19elenamaybe it does.
15:48.27starseekerhands elena to the *BSD guru
15:49.05elenayes. it has something. i just imagined it's better to have it set properly.
15:49.11elenawhatever that means :)
15:49.23starseekerthe quick fix is probably to tack it onto the system LD_LIBRARY_PATH, but I'm not sure where to do that on BSD and I probably don't have the admin rights anyhow
15:49.35elenaso, should I implement it on my side?
15:49.39starseeker(at least, I don't think so...)
15:49.56starseekerelena: If you can set it yourself, that's more robust
15:50.04elenaok.
15:51.01elenathank you.
15:51.30elenaand, Erik, thanks again for yesterday.
15:52.51``Eriknp, elena, that's what I'm here for O.o
16:00.27``Erikok, I regenerated the ld hints file, it SHOULD work without settig the env variable, I think
16:01.07``Erikd'no why tcl isn't sharing rpath info with libbu, though :/
16:01.18elenatesting
16:01.29elenayep. it works.
16:01.54elenai'll revert my changes.
16:08.48elenahttp://more.brlcad.org/ partially working.
16:08.59elenabug: title is not retrieved correctly.
16:09.21d-loGotta admit... I like the layout and color scheme!
16:09.31elenabug: raytrace images created in the wrong directory.
16:10.26elenalocal file selection (ie. uploading through ftp/scp) works, but it's not enabled.
16:10.54elenatheme is open source. i like it, too :)
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16:55.00starseekerelena: nifty!
16:58.52elena:)
17:13.09``Erikgreen and beige, seems a bit... armyish *duck* :D
17:13.32starseekerneutral and environmentally friendly ;-)
17:13.50starseekerhas been watching too much HGTV
17:14.16``Erikwhat, the color scheme, or the army? if it's the latter, I might have to explain a few things to ya ;>
17:14.30starseekerheh
17:14.42``Erikgot my bsd hack box running, w00t
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17:47.26CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r34975 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/brepintersect.cpp:
17:47.28CIA-32BRL-CAD: The first step in the long processes of implementing the methods for keeping
17:47.30CIA-32BRL-CAD: track of intersection data we get out in order the reconstruct the mesh later.
17:47.32CIA-32BRL-CAD: Implements a class with the specific responsibility of keeping track of the
17:47.34CIA-32BRL-CAD: intersections in the triangles to later reconstruct the faces.
17:48.14*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedyII (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
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19:58.24alecs1hi, I would like to add some tolerancing information to some brl-cad structures
19:58.53alecs1the first idea is to just add a pointer to custom data to the primitives
19:59.20alecs1and then create some data structures for the types of tolerances I might need
19:59.50alecs1but if there's some plan of how to do it properly I would love to integrate my work with that
20:00.11alecs1how would you suggest to go about it?
20:01.49jdolinerwhich structure were you looking at?
20:05.22alecs1first the rcc
20:06.02*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.207.99)
20:06.45alecs1here's the original thread where I asked long ago: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=15b5efbc0904270528tb2ebb13y8110236e67d65439%40mail.gmail.com
20:25.56``Erik*readreadread* hm, and brlcad answered you... are attributes not sufficient?
20:30.50alecs1I don't know; variant c) from the reply looked like and attractive and easy way to get accustomed to brl-cad code
20:32.07``Erikfunny, it looks like the least easy to me :D
20:32.35``Erika looks like the easiest and most simple to me *shrug*
20:34.36alecs1look at it from the pov of a guy that doesn't know too much about brl-cad; a programmer's first idea is to just add one more data structure :)
20:34.46CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1539 10/wiki/More_Changelog: July 6 activity.
20:35.23``Erik'cept we have to maintain backwards compatability for the saved files
20:38.52starseekerbrlcad: I think we found your next car:  http://www.wired.com/reviews/product/pr_veyron_convertible
20:41.04elenai open a database in read-only mode. I type title
20:41.15elenaand I get "Sorry, this database is READ-ONLY."
20:41.20elenawhy is that?
20:41.58starseekerI'm guessing bug
20:42.14elenathat's in 7.14.9.
20:42.24elenain 7.10.4 works ok.
20:43.07starseekerBob's on it
20:43.32starseekerBob's fixed it
20:43.56elena:)
20:44.24elenabob's quick. I should look for a meaner bug :)
20:45.35``Erikdo not anger the bob!
20:47.06CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34976 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/title.c: Check if read-only only if modifying the title.
20:48.00starseekerpossibly the fastest bug turnaround ever :-P
20:48.32elenathanks. now I can go to bed happy.
20:48.38elenabye.
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21:55.20Ralithd-lo: right; just getting a bit discouraged with all the things not working.
21:55.36RalithStill got some stuff left to test in the qt-hacking area before I move on to the ogre-centric approach, though
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22:29.46tegtmeyeping brlcad
22:31.37``Erikhe hasn't said anything all day, I think he was heading to some rowing thing u p north for the weekend, he might be chumming or on his way back (or recovering)
22:32.33tegtmeyeot an interesting cad bug
22:33.03tegtmeyeos x 10.5 seg fault with two monitors connected
22:33.06tegtmeyeworks ok with one
22:33.57tegtmeyehear that there is no working version w/10.5 currently?
22:33.59``Erikfunky, my only 10.5 box is my laptop, so no dual head :/
22:34.02tegtmeyeis that correct?
22:34.09tegtmeyejsut found it
22:34.09``Erikbut I thought his desktop was on 10.5
22:34.22tegtmeyebrlcads?
22:34.24``Erikit works on my laptop *shrug*
22:34.25``Erikyeah
22:34.51tegtmeyecan't find any bugreports for this but someone overthere says its a known issue
22:35.41tegtmeyetrying to get it into ports over here
22:37.08tegtmeyeI'll track him down tomorrow, thanks
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090707

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090707

00:03.08``Erikhm, looks like midterm evals are upon us
00:03.35jdolineryeah they just went up
00:15.32CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1540 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Log for 2009-07-05 and addendum to 2009-06-29/30
00:22.57*** part/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-75-169.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
00:32.10*** part/#brlcad alecs1 (i=alex@193.170.135.119)
00:39.02Ralithsighs.
00:39.04Ralithanother test failed.
00:41.02Ralithokay, time to trace the qt render process.
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01:02.20Ralithhm.
01:03.06Ralithbreak on line number doesn't seem to work with my distro's packaged qt libs.
01:03.25RalithI'm guessing they'd need to be built with lots of debugness?
01:03.51``Erikyeah, needs the stabs in the file
01:08.12RalithI'm going to have to rebuild qt again? ;_;
01:13.59``Erikdo you need to debug qt itself?
01:16.20RalithI was going to say yes
01:16.31Ralithbut then I tried breaking in some code that Ogre calls at the right time and the backtrace was perfectly usable
01:16.42``Erikok, cool
01:36.51Ralithcompletes the student survey
02:08.03Ralithfinishes it.
02:10.03Raliththere was an option for "I have not yet contacted my mentoring organization." O.o
03:10.02*** join/#brlcad monty_hall (n=sprague_@75.21.164.212)
03:11.37*** part/#brlcad monty_hall (n=sprague_@75.21.164.212)
03:15.33*** join/#brlcad monty_hall (n=sprague_@75.21.164.212)
03:16.10monty_hallcan brl cad generate meshes for fem?
03:18.03``Erikdepends on the FEM engine... many like STL, which BRL-CAD can export
03:19.08monty_hall``Erik: thanks.
03:19.13monty_hallI'm just starting w/ fea
03:19.15``ErikBRL-CAD has been used to output voxel sets, as well
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07:29.50CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r34977 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/brepintersect.cpp: Implements the PointIndex class which allows points to be added into a mesh on the fly and makes sure there are no duplicates
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10:12.46CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r34978 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/setup.c: switched brep command to use view wrapper to update screen draws
10:13.34d-lomernin all!
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14:22.52monty_hallguten morgen
14:23.05monty_halloops wrong channel.
14:23.09monty_hallstill, good morning.
15:02.54*** join/#brlcad alsadi (n=alsadi@fedora/alsadi)
15:04.43alsadiI'm trying to build brlcad, the function getline in jove_io conflicts the gnu extension getline, how to solve that ?
15:07.11d-lo``Erik: is there a way to disable building of adrt?  I am getting a linker error:  ./.libs/librender.so: undefined reference to `MATH_VEC_TRANSFORM' while building in `/home/dloman/devel/brlcad/src/adrt'
15:13.17*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@24.11.214.181)
15:23.38*** join/#brlcad elena (n=elena@89.136.118.141)
15:25.17d-lostarseeker: FYI, when I configure brlcad to install in my homedir (aka /home/dloman/) tkhtml3.0 still tried to install to '/usr/lib/Tkhtml3.0'
15:33.14*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@74.Red-83-42-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
15:38.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r34979 10/rt^3/trunk/ (6 files in 5 dirs): Work towards having CMake fully working.
16:32.14*** part/#brlcad alsadi (n=alsadi@fedora/alsadi)
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16:59.59``Erikdoes not get that error :/
17:01.46d-loare there any external deps to adrt that I am not aware of?
17:01.52``Erikah, wait, that machine gives the error hrmmm
17:04.31``Erikyuh oh, something is missing
17:06.10*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@84-73-205-106.dclient.hispeed.ch)
17:26.11starseekerd-lo: Huh.  That's odd - what OS?
17:26.21d-loRHEL4
17:26.39starseekerwonders why it doesn't do it on the mac...
17:27.11starseekerdon't suppose anybody's working on integrating Tcl package building with Cmake...
17:27.27d-loheh, not I!
17:33.16starseekeris sorely tempted to answer "ANSI Common Lisp" to the question "What is your native language?"
17:34.48``Erikhehehe http://www.explosm.net/comics
17:35.10``Erik(starseeker is made with alien technology.)
17:35.30``Erik(in reference to the language statement, not the webcomic...)
17:35.49elena:)
17:35.54starseeker``Erik: come to think of it, that was a prevailing theory about me in high school...
17:36.23``Erikerm... alien != dweeb, sorry
17:36.25``Erik*duck* :D
17:36.40starseekeryeah, alien would have been cooler..
17:37.43CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34980 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/ (dm-X.c dm-ogl.c): (log message trimmed)
17:37.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: fix a bug identified by m.tegtmeyer and t.myers where a fixed-size buffer was
17:37.47CIA-32BRL-CAD: getting overrun causing a crash. determined that both the X and ogl display
17:37.49CIA-32BRL-CAD: managers had the same bug, now fixed to make the buffer dynamic based on the
17:37.51CIA-32BRL-CAD: number of visuals detected as available (from XGetVisualInfo). got rid of some
17:37.53CIA-32BRL-CAD: dead code and stereo conditionals while we're in here so we can simplify the
17:38.05CIA-32BRL-CAD: logic. this fixes the crash and should scale to insane visual counts (worth
17:48.55CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r34981 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/librender/texture_internal.h: resurrect MATH_VEC_TRANSFORM as a few texture shaders use it. Odd that it went 6 months before causing issue...
17:49.21``Eriktakes off his pants and runs around the office
17:56.57CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34982 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
17:56.59CIA-32BRL-CAD: fixed a problem in the ogl and X11 display manager where a fixed size buffer was
17:57.01CIA-32BRL-CAD: causing mged to crash. mike and tim pinpointed the problem, I applied a fix the
17:57.03CIA-32BRL-CAD: dynamically allocates a buffer large enough for the available visuals. was
17:57.05CIA-32BRL-CAD: previous limited to 256, yet more than 800+ were being returned on Mac OS X 10.5
17:57.11CIA-32BRL-CAD: causing a memory overrun.
17:57.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34983 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: the visual crash bug was fixed.
18:04.24brlcadwas recovering all day yesterday
18:07.29CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34984 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: build system bug, tkhtml is reportedly not respecting the installation prefix and trying to install in /usr/lib
18:12.55brlcadelena: the site looks great
18:13.04elenathanks :)
18:13.24elenai'm not bugging you because I know we're moving to a new box
18:13.38elenabut we should install a php opcache.
18:13.46elenalike apc or xcache.
18:13.59elenait will free up cpu
18:25.41``Erikelena: would it help you do your development if you migrated to 'the new machine'? it'd have far more up to date software, the ability to install software, and far less resource competition, plus the freedom to muck with apache.conf stuff without worrying about breaking stuff?
18:26.12elenano. i'm ok.
18:26.33``Erikaight
18:26.46``Erikmuch prefers web dev on the new box :)
18:26.47elenabut if you think it's better, it's fine with me.
18:27.27``Erikit's your call, it's just another resource
18:51.18elenasorry. we had a guest.
18:51.30elenait's ok for now, maybe on the news update.
18:54.09*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
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19:39.51CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r34985 10/rt^3/trunk/ (CMakeLists.txt cmake/FindBRLCAD.cmake): Mods to top level CMakeLists.txt and addition of a more comprehensive search module for BRLCAD libs.
19:42.10CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r34986 10/rt^3/trunk/cmake/ (PrintFooter.cmake PrintHeader.cmake): Header and Footer CMake banners.
19:47.23CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r34987 10/rt^3/trunk/cmake/FindBRLCAD.cmake: Cleanup of commented code.
19:53.43``Erikpi*1337/100
19:56.30jdoliner42.0030938
19:59.13_sushi_wow
19:59.21brlcad~pi*1337/100
19:59.21ibot42.0030937305
19:59.57``Eriknifty, huh?
20:00.11jdoliner~(sqrt(5)*.5)+.5
20:00.18jdoliner:(
20:00.31jdoliner~sqrt(5)
20:01.10jdolinersean is ibot's one true master
20:01.31``Erikhm, I think tim is, actually O.o
20:02.01``Erikbrlcad has to hide in the closet when tim gets home O:-)
20:02.16jdolinerhahah
20:02.41``Erikohhhhhh, irssi.core, that doesn't smell good
20:07.13``Erikhttp://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/bsd4linux1.php  heh
20:37.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Jdoliner 07http://brlcad.org * r1541 10/wiki/User:Jdoliner: Describes the planned algorithm for mesh reconstruction
21:13.22mafmhey Ralith, how's gsoc coming along?
21:16.56CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34988 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: the ogl display manager still crashes all of X11 on Mac OS X 10.5 if you do an 'attach' (yet tcl gui comes up fine)
21:17.50CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34989 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: credit mike tegtmeyer with special thanks for helping identify the cause of the X11 crash bug on Mac OS X 10.5
21:31.51CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1542 10/wiki/More_Changelog: July 7 activities
21:36.35CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03r_weiss * r34990 10/brlcad/trunk/ (12 files in 8 dirs): added mged and archer command make_pnts to import point-cloud data into pnts primitive (work in progress)
21:38.27CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34991 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS:
21:38.29CIA-32BRL-CAD: update the activity bit on folks; add rain weaver for her support on organizing
21:38.31CIA-32BRL-CAD: the brl-cad videos, brl-cad modeling, and most of all for the algorithmic
21:38.33CIA-32BRL-CAD: support on the new human proc-db tool; add stephen kennedy for his work coding
21:38.35CIA-32BRL-CAD: up the human proc-db; annotate dawn's other nickname
22:37.29brlcadwonders if 8.5.7 fixes this 10.5 Mac tk crash
22:38.10brlcadso we consistently crash Mac OS X 10.5's X11 with 8.5.6 Tk in a Tk_MapWindow() call (Tk_MapWindow -> WkWmMapWindow -> WaitForEventNotify -> WaitForEvent -> TkUnixDoOneXEvent -> XFlush -> crash) .. there are many other Tk_MapWindow() calls being made that work just fine and this only seems to happen during "attach ogl"
22:38.27brlcadthe embedded ogl dm works just fine as do the X dm's
22:54.08``Erikis it flushing before the contedt is realized or something?
22:57.19CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r34992 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (brepintersect.cpp brepintersect.h): implements PolylinePolylineInternal which checks 2 polylines to see if either one is contained completely inside the other
22:57.23*** part/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-75-169.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
23:33.40Ralithbrlcad: X mode work?
23:53.20brlcadX mode works just fine
23:58.29*** join/#brlcad mdavis (n=mdavis@20.sub-75-196-45.myvzw.com)
23:58.45mdavisanyone home that knows about DSPs?
23:59.55``Erikdigital signal processors?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090708

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090708

00:00.11mdavisno no!  Displacement maps
00:00.17mdavis(although digital signal processors are very interesting too)
00:00.47``ErikI'm sure there's some knowedge in the channel
00:01.43mdaviswell...I am using 7.14.8...whenever I try to evaluate a DSP, it says invalid NMG
00:02.05mdavisor something of that sort about NMGs..earlier, I even got a NULL pointer something or another
00:03.43Raliththat sounds serious :/
00:03.45Ralithdoing anything weird?
00:10.54brlcadah, mdavis -- you're trying to export to some polygonal format?
00:10.56mdaviswell
00:11.02mdavisyes...i want to export g-stl
00:11.14mdavisand I would also like to do an ev -w
00:11.15mdavisor even just an ev
00:11.43mdavisI spent 36 hours trying to generate an STL of a DSP just for it to go kaput
00:11.54brlcadthey all end up calling the same nmg routines
00:12.09brlcadcan you provide the .g file with the dsp somewhere?
00:12.17mdaviscertainly..give me a second
00:12.24brlcadsounds like a bug of course
00:12.52brlcadanything unusual about the dsp?
00:13.28mdaviswell...the one I was really working on was just a plump parabola...this test file just has 6 points or so in it for testing
00:13.29*** join/#brlcad stevegt_1 (n=stevegt@cislunar.TerraLuna.Org)
00:13.47brlcadand presumably it raytraces okay?
00:13.55mdavisHaven't tried that..let me see..
00:14.27brlcadeither way, can post up details and the .g here:  https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=105292&atid=640802
00:14.49brlcadI can take a look at it for a little bit tonight, but there others can also take a peek at it
00:15.33mdavisRaytraces fine
00:15.42mdavisvisit autolich.com/test.dsp and autolich.com/test.g
00:15.43brlcadgood
00:16.54brlcad404 on both
00:16.58mdavisThis file just has the values 12,15,17,14,11,25
00:17.01mdavisplease retry
00:18.33``Erikfacetize works fine on it
00:18.34brlcadI can reproduce the bug here, great!
00:18.49mdavisby the way..although it goes without saying...despite the bug, BRL-CAD is truly awesome and I am VERY appreciative
00:18.57stevegt_1Hey all -- anyone know the total size of the svn repository (all changesets, not just current)?  I'm wondering how practical it is to replicate it to a local hg repository for faster history searches etc.   Based on progress so far I'm guessing it's about a half gig...
00:19.02brlcadah, nice catch ``Erik
00:19.10brlcadthat's probably a workable workaround
00:19.32brlcadmdavis: run "facetize test.bot test.s", then g-stl test.bot instead of the .s
00:19.36mdavisI'm afraid I don't know facetize
00:19.51``Erikwell, it means the nmg routines are ok with it, g-stl must be retarded. mebbe i doesn't load the .dsp file correctly
00:19.52mdavisok..let's se
00:19.52mdavissee
00:20.12``Erikmdavis: it's a command in mged, creates a 'bot' object, a bunch of triangles
00:20.47``Erik(Bag O' Triangles, your usual triangle soup)
00:21.38``Erikyeah, facetize and g-stl works fine, g-stl on the dsp fails
00:22.10``Erikmged -c test.g facetize test.f test.s && g-stl -o test.stl test.g test.f
00:22.12brlcadev also fails like he mentioned, so there is some mutual stupidity going on
00:24.12mdavismy processor is blazing up....
00:24.38mdavisshoot..ran it on the wrong file (the one with the big shape) and the computer freaked out
00:24.42mdavistrying again
00:25.57mdavisOK..I did it and it likes it
00:26.02mdavishave a nice test.bot
00:26.19stevegt_1...speaking of history, does anyone know what the a_rbeam member of the rt application structure is all about?  It's supposed to be ray beam width, but it looks like it may have never been completely implemented.  I was hoping to use it to simulate a laser cut, but rt_shootray returns the same results no matter what I set it to.
00:27.46``Erikimplementation of a non-zero diameter ray has been discussed for many many years, you may've hit the nail on the head, stevegt_1 :/
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00:29.11mdavisThis thing is working great now
00:29.17mdavisThanks a lot!!
00:29.43brlcadthanks for reporting the problem
00:30.05brlcadfeel free to use that tracker if you've found other problems, possibly ones you've since worked around even, or if something new comes up
00:30.10``Erikyeah, I imagine g-stl on a dsp is going to be working ok in the next few days O.o
00:30.51stevegt_1Erik: thanks -- thought so.  This line of code in prep.c is sooo tantalyzing:   rtip->rti_max_beam_radius = 175.0/2;        /* Largest Army bullet */
00:30.56stevegt_1;-)
00:31.19brlcadheh
00:31.28``Erikinterest comment
00:31.41``Eriks/ c/ing&/
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00:35.14stevegt_1gotta unplug -- back in a couple hours, i think
00:38.40brlcadcya stevegt_1
01:46.54brlcad``Erik: you have 10.5 on your lappy?
01:47.44brlcadif you do, you see a crash if you configure --with-ogl and "attach ogl" in mged?
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03:16.04``Erikcompiling
03:19.27yukonbobhello, cadheads
04:20.58``Erikit eated my X
04:24.53``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/~erik/Xcrash.txt
04:27.24Ralithnom
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06:29.46CIA-32BRL-CAD: 0395.133.217.16 07http://brlcad.org * r1543 10/wiki/Main_Page:
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08:11.28CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34993 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/make_pnts.c:
08:11.28CIA-32BRL-CAD: replaced c99 idioms with c89 compatible ones
08:11.30CIA-32BRL-CAD: a const specifier in ged_make_pnts still need some consideration
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09:24.01CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1544 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Log for 2009-07-06
09:31.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r34994 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/brepintersect.cpp: Added functions SegmentPolylineIntersect which is hopefully self explanatory in nature and Triangulate which takes an array of Polylines and renders the polygon as triangles, the later is presently a work in progress
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10:26.39d-loMerinin all
10:27.17d-loRalith: Hows it goin?  I see the log entries, but its not telling me much :/
10:28.36d-loSince g3d isn't directly in the build structure of rt^3 (and rt^3 isnt a production module) is there any way I can get you to start checking in your attempts?  (Regardless of whether they work or not)
10:28.55d-loNo one can provide help/guidance if we can't see the code :/
11:07.30CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34995 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_ck.c:
11:07.32CIA-32BRL-CAD: revert a change introduced in revision 8121, Mon Dec 27 22:46:05 1993, where the
11:07.34CIA-32BRL-CAD: min_pt/max_pt comparison was (inadvertently?) changed from > to >= which is
11:07.36CIA-32BRL-CAD: causing facetization problems when the structure is empty. this in turn causes
11:07.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: tools that use nmg_triangulate_model() to incorrectly fail (e.g., g-stl).
11:08.50d-loWow... 1993
11:09.09d-loi was... a sophmore in HS.... wow.
11:20.24CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34996 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_misc.c: fix geomtry typo
11:55.56CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34997 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
11:55.58CIA-32BRL-CAD: fixed Invalid NMG empty output bug in g-stl that was reported by mdavis (irc)
11:56.00CIA-32BRL-CAD: that was causing the tool to exit early. the problem seems to be two-fold, that
11:56.02CIA-32BRL-CAD: the nmg_vface() routine had a minor logic error thinking it needs to abort and
11:56.04CIA-32BRL-CAD: the nmg coming out of the dsp's tess routine is possibly an incomplete
11:56.06CIA-32BRL-CAD: structure.
12:30.38brlcadis still hunting for the dsp bug, but is losing steam
12:31.09``Erikthe commits weren't for that? O.o
12:32.13brlcadit fixed half the problem
12:32.42brlcaddsp's tess() is doing something wrong in the construction of the nmg, that's what triggered the validity failure
12:33.08``Erikshouldn't that trigger on the facetize cmd?
12:33.14brlcadthe validity failure was weak, but arguably correct -- facetize happens to work simply because it doesn't validate
12:33.25``Erikahhh
12:33.49``ErikHrrrmmMMmmMMmmm
12:34.44``Eriknon-validated facetization would be far faster and throw less away if the converter doesn't especially require a topologically closed surface, yes?
12:34.54``Erikis thinking g-adrt shtuff
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13:02.00CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34998 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_mod.c: mass consistency/ws/style/comment cleanup while browsing
13:02.03brlcadthis isn't "non-solid" validation
13:02.20brlcadthis is "is the data structure being used and filled in the way it's supposed to"
13:02.51brlcadvalidating that there is geometry associated with an edge for every face, for example
13:07.07CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34999 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_mod.c: couple more stragglers missed
13:58.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35000 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (Makefile.am slave/load_g.c): begin the ability to load a .g database into adrt
13:58.56brlcadwoot
14:04.18``Erik:r ../../conv/g-egg.c and some cleanup heh, nothing to w00t about :D
14:04.38``Erik(neat rev #, tho)
14:04.45brlcadthat was the woot :)
14:04.56``Erikah
14:11.29d-lobrlcad:  You in today?
14:11.43d-loalso, might wanna get a hotel... they are going faaaaast.
14:11.47d-lo;)
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14:22.34brlcadd-lo: soon as I find this bug or give up, but I've got too much invested to go just yet
14:24.47d-lookay.  Just giving you a heads up.  2 hotels dropped off the available list since I started this morning :/
14:53.36brlcadwoo hoo, think I got it
14:54.14brlcadthey come on and go off repeatedly as rooms are released and rescheduled, you can sometimes watch and get lucky even
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15:02.49CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35001 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/dsp/dsp.c:
15:02.51CIA-32BRL-CAD: found the remaining bug that was provoking the dsp to not validate (nmg_vface()
15:02.56CIA-32BRL-CAD: failure and 'nmg_unbreak_handler: no geometry for edge' failures). the problem
15:03.00CIA-32BRL-CAD: was some final dsp region cleanup to mark the edges as real and compute the
15:03.02CIA-32BRL-CAD: region/shell/edge-level geometry.
15:03.06CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35002 10/isst/trunk/src/ (gui.c isst.h sql.c): use bu_vls for database and host names. Trim whitespace around names.
15:06.35*** join/#brlcad elena (n=elena@89.136.118.141)
15:07.50brlcadmight want to s/strncpy/bu_strlcpy/ on those buffers
15:08.57``Erikiirc, strlcpy isn't everywhere (and I thought I did s/strncpy/bu_vls/strcpy/ )
15:09.15brlcadbu_strlcpy
15:09.20brlcadwe have a wrapper
15:09.52brlcadimplements it if strlcpy isn't available, otherwise identical signature
15:10.19brlcadbu_strlcat too, but didn't see those in  use
15:12.23elenainteresting. i never meet strlcpy before.
15:12.31elenalearns new thing
15:17.33``Erikafter lunch  :D
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17:33.02jdolinerindianlarry?
17:33.10jdolinerare you around/ did you get my email?
17:37.40indianlarryhey joe
17:37.55indianlarryyes i got your email and will try and look into this evening
17:39.20jdolinercool
17:41.29``Erikmmm, green turtle
17:45.59``Erikfails to see what bu_strlcpy will buy over bu_strcpy in this situation
17:47.11``Erikcan't buffer overflow and the gtk side guarantees the null terminator O.o
18:05.58brlcadprobably nothing, I just noticed one unadorned strncpy from the original code
18:06.54CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35003 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/load.c: get load working again. meh.
18:10.48``Erikoriginal code used char hostname[64]; and strncpy to avoid running past
18:11.37CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35004 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: attempt to fill database and master hostnames using envirnment variables
18:11.37``Erikthere're still a couple static string buffers left
18:13.07brlcad``Erik: what's the diff between field strength and threshold
18:13.32``Erikfield strength is per point, threshold is throughout the entire primitive
18:14.10brlcadhow do they play together?
18:14.12``Erikintends to make a wiki page (and eventually form 1 report)
18:14.22brlcadif I set a non-zero field strength on all points, is threhold ignored?
18:14.29``Erikno
18:14.30brlcadand vice-versa
18:15.24``Erikthey work together, if you take a point of consideration, field strength and distance are used to compute the points contribution, if the sum of all points contribution is above the threshold, you are inside, otherwise you're outside
18:16.34``Erikwith a single control point, strength 1 and threshold one... changing str to 2 and leaving threshold 1 will have the same effect as leaving str 1 and changing threshold to .5
18:16.46brlcadso random field strengths + zero threshold is a bunch of spheres no matter how close
18:17.07``Erik0 threshold means every point in existence is inside of the metaball
18:18.23``Erikthe formulae are tuned so threshold=1 is "natural"
18:18.37brlcadthen is threshold distance-based (size/units-dependent?)
18:18.46brlcadwhat does natural mean? :)
18:19.05``Erikthreshold=1, 1 control point, fldstr=400 means a 400 unit radius sphere
18:19.43``Erik(there's a reason for that, in s2)
18:20.00brlcadokay, so not distance
18:20.01``Erikbut 99.999% of outside usage will want threshold=1
18:20.48brlcadwhat is method?
18:21.00``Erikdifferent algorithms O.o
18:21.11``Erikcrafting an explanation email? heh
18:21.20brlcadwriting code
18:21.25``Erikah
18:21.59jdolinerwhat do our metaballs use as their falloff function?
18:22.13``Erikjdoliner: that's what method defines... :D
18:22.43jdolinerI see
18:23.03``Eriksrc/librt/primitives/metaball/metaball.c starting at line 244
18:23.07jdolinerso we provide a number of different options
18:23.11jdolinerreading
18:23.25brlcadokay, more to the point of this.. which 'method' should I use?  don't see any API defines/enums, so 0, 1, 42?
18:24.05``Erik'iso' is the same formula used to compute gravity or point charge strenght, blob is the '82 blinn blobby surface method, the unimplemented one is the tokyo metaball approximation
18:24.45``Erikdefines are in metaball.c:67 (should move those to rtgeom.h or raytrace.h if people want to muck with the programatically)
18:24.50``Erikhere, lemme do that
18:25.07brlcadfound em
18:25.25jdolinerso is is inverse square
18:25.38brlcadan enum in wdb.h would work well since it needs it for mk_metaball
18:27.33``Erikoh, I was putting it in rtgeom heh
18:29.10``Erikcontemplates rtgeomo.h vs wdb.h
18:29.13CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35005 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c:
18:29.15CIA-32BRL-CAD: Made all limbs join together smoothly with themselves. Also added a feature to allow the creation
18:29.17CIA-32BRL-CAD: of many humans at once using the -N command.
18:30.05CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35006 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/rtgeom.h src/librt/primitives/metaball/metaball.c): move metaball method definitions to a public header
18:50.50brlcadheh
18:50.59brlcad``Erik: have you actually used mk_metaball anywhere yet? :)
18:51.18``Erikhmmmm, newp?
18:51.33brlcadk, didn't think you had :)
18:51.35``Erikdon't think so
18:52.59brlcadthe *verts[5] is a bit of a pita to work with :)
18:53.09brlcadat least if you have dynamic sets, having to allocate your points
18:53.37``Erik*shrug* so make it a bu list
18:53.59``ErikI think I was starting to put that together to support the proc-db
18:54.04``Erikand got distracted
18:54.11``Erikor, rather, redirected
18:54.49CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35007 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libwdb/wdb.c: fix an infinite loop and add the points in the order the user specified (in case it's significant for their usage, e.g. printing)
18:55.19``Eriklast halloween even heh, with the log of "stubbed out..."
19:11.31brlcadgah, rt_metaball_point_value_metaball() No implemented
19:12.29brlcadof course method "0" isn't implemented apparently..
19:17.07CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35008 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/metaball/metaball.c: don't bu_exit() inside the library as it cannot be caught like bu_bomb. clean up indent on STEPBACK too with a semi
19:20.20CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35009 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/metaball/metaball.c: ws, comment cleanup
19:25.11``Erikmethod 0 is the tokyo metaball, was redirected
19:26.50brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/mbug/mbug.png
19:27.18brlcadtis viewing-angle specific
19:27.23brlcad.g is up there
19:27.51brlcadis that right?
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19:42.34CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35010 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/metaball.c:
19:42.36CIA-32BRL-CAD: hijack the stubbed metaballs example with something entirely different. this
19:42.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: one creates a couple metaballs using the (now working) mk_metaball() routine as
19:42.40CIA-32BRL-CAD: a means to show creation, and next manipulation. to be added is how to read
19:42.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: them back in from the .g and combine them into one megametaball.
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19:51.40CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35011 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/load_g.c: eliminate verbose stuff. wire stuff together.
19:53.02``Erikthat don't look right O.O
20:23.30brlcadwelp, I just finished debugging a hellish bug early this morning, so that one is up to you!
20:41.47Ralithhehe
20:42.07starseekerRalith: any more luck with Ogre+Qt?
20:42.59Ralithstarseeker: none yet, nope; if I can't find anything useful in the GL intercept results I'll try the ogre centric approach
20:43.28Ralithit's getting pretty frustrating :/
20:45.22CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35012 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/metaball/metaball.c: minor cleanup, implement rt_metaball_free()
20:45.36brlcadRalith: did you see d-lo's comments earlier today?
20:46.05Ralithbrlcad: have now.
20:46.09brlcadyou gotta commit something, else nobody can help -- even if it doesn't work
20:47.01Ralithalright, I'll try to.  Haven't been doing so because it's been much more casting around across a wide variety of ideas than focusing on a particular approach.
20:47.21brlcadtrying ideas is fine, but should still be committing
20:47.34Ralithkk
20:47.35brlcadas often as you save the file is fine -- i.e., if it compiles, commit it
20:47.42Ralithheh, okay, okay
20:47.55brlcadotherwise "it doesn't exist"
20:48.06brlcadand we have no idea what you've tried
20:48.09RalithI'll tidy things up so that the test can be built cleanly without interfering with old g3d
20:48.21brlcadcould be you tried the right idea weeks ago and had a minor bug
20:48.33Ralithgood point.
20:48.40brlcaddon't worry about the old g3d, we can resurrect that from svn if needed
20:49.07RalithI'm hesitant to replace it with nothing but a broken testcase :/
20:49.11Ralithbut alright.
20:50.49brlcadif what you have is a testcase, that could just as easily be added alongside as well
20:50.58Raliththat's what I was saying
20:51.24brlcadhow's that interfere?
20:51.28RalithI mean, it's a little more involved than that, but it doesn't *do* anything, and interacts only minimally with the existing g3d codebase.
20:52.10RalithI'd rewritten main.cxx to use the QT stuff w/ OgreScene as it would be used in the working app
20:52.26Ralithit would not be much work to just make all that ifdef'd
20:52.53brlcaddon't ifdef it, either replace it or copy the file and commit the "second binary"
20:52.59Ralithat the time I had expected that I'd have something interesting working with OgreScene quickly, but seeing as that wasn't the case...
20:53.23brlcadall the more reason that you gotta be committing even more frequently from now on, even if busted
20:53.23RalithI'll split it, then
20:53.33Raliththat should be even easier, actually
20:53.39Ralithjust a matter of copy, revert, tweak cmakelists
20:53.46brlcadotherwise, all we have is an ogre commit and irc logs, and I'm sure you've done more than that
20:55.23starseekerGrrr - where is the "distribute" command used in opennurbs_ext.cpp on line 789 defined??
20:57.45brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/xref/ident?i=distribute
20:59.05brlcador were you using emacs, "make tags", then cursor over the word distribute on that line and hit M-. then enter
20:59.37CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35013 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: stub in .g loading shtuff
20:59.39brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/xref/source/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp  <-- starting poitn
21:00.24CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35014 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/load_g.c: parse string into filename/treename
21:01.05brlcadgives ``Erik cheesypoofs
21:01.31starseekeris surprised - i thought opennurbs_ext was compiled before brep
21:02.12``Erikheh
21:04.44brlcadstarseeker: doesn't matter
21:04.49CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35015 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/bomb.c:
21:04.51CIA-32BRL-CAD: annotate that bu_exit() should generally not be called by library code. it's
21:04.53CIA-32BRL-CAD: intended use is by application codes for graceful exit. there are a few
21:04.55CIA-32BRL-CAD: exceptions, but since the exit is not catchable, it's not very polite to
21:04.57CIA-32BRL-CAD: applications and doesn't give them a chance to handle the situation or perform
21:04.59CIA-32BRL-CAD: their own cleanup.
21:05.05``Erikgets ready to start screaming "commit" over and over until he sees a msg from a certain user O:-)
21:08.36CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35016 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: minor ws/indent consistency cleanup, remove author from headers
21:12.21CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03r_weiss * r35017 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/make_pnts.c: cleanup
21:12.45``Erikthinks he might have adrt sorta kinda loading .g tomorrow
21:12.58starseekerawesome!
21:12.59CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35018 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
21:13.05CIA-32BRL-CAD: Start cleaning up the opennurbs tree building routines/logic. Would prefer the
21:13.07CIA-32BRL-CAD: flatness test to be a per-node affair (like, say, isLeaf) but need to hit my
21:13.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: head on it a bit more first. For the time being, since there is still active
21:13.16CIA-32BRL-CAD: debugging going on with indianlarry and this approach is not yet functional,
21:13.20CIA-32BRL-CAD: sticking it into two temporary files that are EXTRA_DISTed. Once the trees are
21:13.28CIA-32BRL-CAD: building successfully in testing, see about rewiring brep.cpp to use the
21:14.37Ralithadrt?
21:14.49CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35019 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/load_g.c: db_walk_tree wants char**, not char*
21:14.57``Erikinteractive distributed raytracer thingymajigger
21:15.49``Erikat the moment, it needs specially prepared geometry in a mysql database... .g loading would make it so people outside of my office and play with it... (related to the isst stuff)
21:15.50Raliththe really pretty one?
21:16.09``Erikyeah, it's the engine that did the stryker in slat armor image for the gallery
21:16.22Ralithcool!
21:16.28CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35020 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (opennurbs_ext.cpp primitives/brep/brep.cpp): move the inline distribute() function over to the only place it's actually used in opennurbs_ext.cpp until it's actually needed elsewhere (in which case it probably belongs in the header if it needs to be inline)
21:17.08``Eriknow I'm going to roll my old bones home O.o
21:17.36Ralithwhy's adrt take so much power, btw? just 'cuz raytracing CSG is inherently a lot of work?
21:18.10brlcadno, not really
21:18.26brlcadit's because it's performing a different style of rendering, global illumination rendering
21:18.40Ralithoh, right, plain old rt is pretty fast
21:18.43brlcadwhich requires shooting several orders of magnitude more rays to fully simulate light transport
21:19.00Ralithbut I ask because I've played with other (at least alleged) GI renderers before that don't take nearly so long
21:19.09Ralithraytracers, that is
21:19.19brlcadwhat are you comparing to?
21:19.40brlcadthe time the stryker image took?
21:19.45Ralithyeah
21:19.55brlcadmost GI renderers couldn't have handled that scene
21:20.12Ralithahh. why's that?
21:20.37brlcadthe level of detail in there is a bit misleading fromt he picture alone
21:21.06brlcadthere aren't textures in use, there is actually geometry for every single blade of grass and leaf on tree
21:21.20Ralithpulls it up agin
21:21.48brlcadnot to mention incredible detail inside the vehicle, every nut bolt and wire along with all of the internal components, not just a surface model
21:21.55Ralithoh damn.
21:22.08Ralithshame not much of that is visible
21:22.19Ralithhad forgotten just how ridiculously detailed that scene was
21:22.20brlcadif it were, you wouldn't have gotten to see the picture :)
21:22.27Ralithhehe
21:22.39Ralithwhat was that modelled for, anyway?
21:23.37brlcadmostly just a demo
21:23.47Raliththat seems like an incredible amount of modeling work for a demo
21:24.30brlcadalso notice the number of rays fired.. 8 *trillion* rays is a lot of rays
21:24.44Ralithenough that it's hard to get a sense of scale.
21:24.57Ralithcertainly did't leave any visible artifacts.
21:26.20Ralithwhat generated the trees?
21:26.54brlcadsome plugin, it was imported
22:12.33``Erikthe trees and grass came from blender, iirc
22:13.31``Erikadrt/tie doesn't do CSG, it's straight triangle rendering, but every pixel is something like 256 primary rays... in a path tracing system O.o
22:13.45``Erik(antialiasing, depth of field, etc)
22:14.45``Erikwith a simple phong shader, it renders a couple dozen 1024x768 frames a second
22:15.20``Erik(it doesn't require much power at all, that's why it can go above and beyond like that styker image)
22:35.39CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1545 10/wiki/More_Changelog: July 8 activity
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090709

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090709

00:07.03*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
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00:42.06CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35021 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libwdb/wdb.c: missed a commit.. have to initialize the ctrl head else bad things happen
00:46.30CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35022 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs):
00:46.32CIA-32BRL-CAD: deprecate the rather useless bu_fopen_uniq() .. would remove it given it's only
00:46.34CIA-32BRL-CAD: in use in one place (dsp plot debug code), but don't know if anyone has relied
00:46.36CIA-32BRL-CAD: on it. go ahead and schedule it for removal. update dsp to just use fopen
00:46.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: instead.
01:07.58CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35023 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (fopen_uniq.c image.c rb_extreme.c rb_internals.h): remove all calls to bu_exit(). shouldn't be used by library code even for fatal situations. use bu_bomb() instead or (better) cascade the failure up to the application level.
01:23.27CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35024 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/prep.c: wow, not only shouldn't librt be calling bu_exit, but prep should definitely not be calling it. failing to prep can be quite normal under some circumstances and the application needs to be able to know.
01:27.48CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35025 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ebm/ebm.c: remove the outdated test driver application. better to stash test app in a separate file or proc-db or util or regress.
01:28.27``Erikall ur bu_exit are belong to brlcad
01:40.37CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35026 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ebm/ebm.c: mass consistency/ws/style/indent/comment cleanup
01:53.55``Erikprep.c:1322: error: too many arguments to function 'bu_bomb'
01:54.07``Erikassumes brlcad forgot to commit include/bu.h
01:54.52``Erikprep.c:1771: error: incompatible types in assignment
01:55.14``Erikpoint_t x; x = INFINITY; <-- ummm, no :)
02:06.47CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35027 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/prep.c: oops, unbreak the build and do major consistency cleanup on prep while we're at it.
02:07.08brlcadyeah, I noticed right away .. just took a while with the rest of the cleanup
03:50.14yukonbobhello, cadheads
03:50.35``Erikssshhhh
03:55.56CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35028 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/metaball.c: restructure in preparation for re-reading from the .g we just created so the metaballs can be combined together.
03:57.18``ErikO.o
03:57.28CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35029 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: make db_open modes be identical to fopen modes
04:03.11yukonbobminds ``Erik's scolding...
04:03.41yukonbob>.>
04:03.46yukonbob<.<
04:04.56``Erikwhat scolding? heh
04:15.59yukonbobhow's it going :)
04:22.17yukonbobthrashes his disk doing full table scan on /quereyy
04:24.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35030 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_lookup.c: save the callers of db_lookup from *having* to call db_dirbuild. since db_lookup is useless without building a directory, build it automatically if there are no records.
04:26.04CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35031 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_lookup.c: shoot, breaks the contract. db_lookup is const, db_dirbuild is not, so we're back to manual
04:35.25yukonbobhas no love for opennurbs atm.
04:35.25yukonbobfails to build :P
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05:55.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35032 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/metaball.c: add the logic to load up the metaballs we added, and combine them manually into one megametaball via librt/libwdb routines.
05:56.16brlcadaaand that does it
06:50.44Ralithyay!
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09:42.57_clock_*LOL*
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09:43.33madanthates wiki spammers
09:43.56CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Drlex 07http://brlcad.org * r1549 10/wiki/User:900_buy_levitra:
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09:53.26CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Drlex 07http://brlcad.org * r1556 10/wiki/User_talk:526_buy_viagra:
10:14.39*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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10:50.18d-loMernin all!
10:50.33d-lo*readreadread*
11:02.30d-lo'Megametaball'  That's got a nice ring to it.
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11:33.56CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r35033 10/rt^3/trunk/src/ (13 files in 13 dirs): Adding more CMakeLists.txt files. Continuing cmake build system integration.
13:18.38``Erikwow, g-stl on sphflake is a monster
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15:12.14CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35034 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/metaball.c: add a slew of additional comments for the intended audience, make three metaballs of differing sizes so the field strength differences can be emphasized. clean up output formatting.
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16:39.08CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35035 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added a wrapper for attr. Also added a checkpoint_olist method for creating multiple ledger entries for an action.
16:54.10CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35036 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: metaballs aren't fully rendering correctly. see the proc-db example to see the chewing pattern on grazing edges.
16:55.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:Drlex]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled, e-mail blocked): Spamming links to external sites
16:56.20CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/delete: deleted "[[User talk:526 buy viagra]]": content was: '' (and the only contributor was '[[Special:Contributions/Drlex|Drlex]]')
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17:52.19brlcadRalith: any progress today?
17:52.29brlcadstill waiting to see that commit ;)
17:52.44brlcadjdoliner: how's it going on your end?
17:53.16jdolinerit's going, although things are getting more complicated than I was hoping
17:53.22jdolinerdid you read my wiki post?
17:55.57brlcadyep
17:57.12jdolinerit's kind of a brute force solution
17:57.46jdolinerbut it'll get the job done
17:59.02``Erikdoes tk have a zomfg fast canvas?
17:59.11brlcadfrom the big picture perspective, what I'm most worried about is end result being a set of routines that work on a subset of polygonal mesh intersections .. as that is pretty much our nmg library (and there's no way you'll finish all possible situations in a summer)
17:59.48brlcad``Erik: not really, but it's decent enough for most purposes -- depends on how many canvas objects you have and what rendering goes into it
18:00.30jdolinerwhat subset do you think they won't work on?
18:01.23``Erikrgb blits
18:01.25brlcadmuch of that assumes clean numerics
18:01.30``Erikthink tk isst
18:02.06brlcadreal world meshes are absolutely riddled with "errors" that you have to account for where there are floating point tolerance problems on micro and macro scale
18:02.38brlcadour nmg library does a phenomenal job and it only handles 99% or so
18:02.53brlcadmore to the point of the project, though, is that polygonal meshes aren't the focus :)
18:02.59brlcadspline surface intersections are
18:03.27jdolinerso should I be working on spline surface intersections instead?
18:04.01brlcadwell I presumed from what you've been saying that you've been approaching the mesh side to get a better handle on just how the data structures and logic works out
18:04.05brlcadyes?
18:04.21brlcadsince polygonal meshes are certainly "easier" in many regards
18:04.32jdolinerwell yes that's been part of it
18:04.50brlcadso that part is good/great/useful
18:05.00jdolinerI was also under the impression for a while though that we needed mesh mesh intersection
18:05.13jdoliner(brlcad src is a big place)
18:05.15brlcadjust shouldn't be the whole project given we already have a library that does mesh/mesh intersections .. unless we're going to shift your project to making it even more robust ;)
18:05.58brlcadthat was the nmg code I pointed you at in src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_*.c  (nmg_bool.c and nmg_eval.c come to mind)
18:06.28brlcadthe main difference there is that they use different data structures, a radial edge data structure
18:06.38jdolineryes
18:06.53jdolinerour code diverges actually very quickly
18:07.06jdolinercan you tell me more about why nmg fails?
18:07.09brlcadhigh-level, though, they represent arbitrary polygons and will evaluate intersections of those
18:07.18jdolinerwell when really
18:07.59brlcadnmg fails on a small subset of geometry mostly due to numerics and tolerance tracking problems
18:08.29brlcadconsider three points on a line, perhaps vertices to three polygons  o---o---o
18:08.42jdolinerk
18:09.05brlcadit's numerically actually completely ambiguous other than there being only one solution that results in topologically solid geometry
18:09.34brlcadso in the code, it attempts to determine if those vertices are the same or not, for example
18:09.55brlcadso it knows whether to collapse them (so we have solid geometry, critically important) or not
18:10.27brlcadsay all three points are within some 'collapse' tolerance of each other, but not the two farthest
18:11.00brlcadif it collapses middle to left, it ends up with a dangling face; if it collpases middle to right, it ends up with a dangling face
18:12.03jdolineri see
18:12.06brlcadit could collapse left to middle, but then if it collapses middle to right then that original point has drifted drastically from the original value (which can cascade problems)
18:12.29brlcadlifewise right to middle, middle to left, same problem
18:12.50brlcadthat "point drift" problem happens all over the place in tiny tiny increments (at a minimum it occurs at the floating point tolerance level)
18:13.52jdolinerokay that would be a problem
18:14.11jdolinerbut I have trouble imagining how their could be a real solution
18:14.29jdolinerlike how could a system ever avoid this?
18:14.45brlcadthere are lots of possible solutions, it just entails a fair bit of book keeping
18:15.43brlcadyou either have to track your decisions and be able to back up (akin to a decision tree graph, have to be able to find other solutions) or you keep track of and accumulate error, not allowing error to grow beyond a certain amount
18:17.36jdolinerokay, so basically when we collapse we remember and then if we detect a dangling face or a similar error, we go back and say whoops that wasn't such a good idea afterall and undo it?
18:27.40``Erikhrmph
18:29.36jdolinerProbably the most important questions is which does brlcad need more, a more robust mesh intersection system, or spline intersection, my inkling is that spline intersection is more needed.
18:31.47``ErikI'd be apt to agree at this point
18:32.41``Erikso hop to, boy, onward to spline evaluations :D
18:33.36jdolineralright then, spline evaluations it is
18:33.54indianlarrythe loop/trim logic should carry over to the spline work
18:34.04jdolineryeah it certainly will
18:34.27jdolinermy work over the past 2 weeks has been with polylines
18:34.30indianlarrywait till you see the tolerance errors in the u.v space trim approximations
18:34.41indianlarry;^)
18:34.58jdolinerk what code should I start reading?
18:35.21jdolinerON_Nurbs objects seems like an obvious place to start
18:35.55indianlarryON_Brep->ON_Surface->ON_Face
18:36.52indianlarryyou'll find the trimming loops on the face's
18:37.19jdolineralrighty
18:43.18brlcadboth are needed, people would be just as happy if you made the nmg code tessellations more robust
18:43.28brlcadheck, some would be absolutely ecstatic :)
18:43.48brlcadbut that wouldn't be best done by "starting over" .. you'd need to dig into the nmg code and make it more robust
18:44.28brlcadotherwise, original goal definitely is a hot need too, being able to evaluate two NURBS objects and give a resulting object sans booleans
18:45.23brlcade.g. simple test case is two overlapping boxes unioned together, provide a resulting nurbs box (with or without trims) that is just one object with no boolean
18:45.43brlcadthen try to get two spheres, similar situation, then sphere on box, etc
18:46.33CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:509 buy biaxin]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
18:46.49jdolinerk I'll reshift my focus to that
18:47.07CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:900 buy glucotrol xl]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
18:47.07jdolinerbut I'll also take a look at the nmg tesselation at some point
18:47.30CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:494 buy lopressor]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
18:47.44jdolinerban hammer!!!
18:48.30brlcadjdoliner: I'd pick one or the other and run with it :)
18:48.39brlcadtoo much work to dabble in both :)
18:49.03brlcadgiven all your investment in mesh logic to date, you're probably just as well poised for either
18:49.07brlcadboth have a major impact
18:49.36jdolinerk sounds sage
18:49.54``Erikif topic contains '%buy%' do exec ipfw ...
18:50.15jdolinerthen we'll just get spam to rent things ;P
18:51.08brlcadbuy brl-cad!
18:51.20``Erikif topic contains '%your mom%' ...
18:51.22``ErikO:-)
19:06.51CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35037 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_cleanup.h: Add distribute to the cleanup opennurbs code too.
19:25.55brlcadjdoliner: so you have an inclination as to which?
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19:31.37``Erikja, /20.0 -> /200.0 gives better display results :/
19:35.43brlcadcool, that's good actually
19:35.51jdolinermy inclination right now is toward spline intersection
19:36.11brlcadjust a matter of making that tweak dynamic .. as opposed to an outright but that takes a while to hunt/fix ;)
19:36.30brlcadjdoliner: okay, then I'd say run down that way and don't look back :)
19:36.53``Erik*hackhackhack*
19:36.59brlcadI would suggest starting with a high-level goal like i mentioned instead of low-level, just to have a simple test-driven goal
19:37.07``Erikhave a dynamic thing coded up, compiling now ot test
19:37.32brlcadlike box/box intersection, find the result .. write a test harness and work towards getting that test harness working with all the behind-the-scene detail
19:37.32``Erikall keepin' me from .g loading in isst, bastage
19:37.53brlcad:)
19:38.11brlcadwell I know the sec dave or that dude try the sample code, they're going to see the bug :)
19:38.28jdolinerk sounds good boxes in brepcube are a good starting point
19:38.32brlcadalready anticipate having to explain why mk_metaball() is going to crash for them :)
19:38.36jdolinerfor wriiting the test
19:39.11brlcadyeah, or even starting with a .g that has two cubes already placed with an operation
19:39.19brlcadthen dealing with them at the code level
19:39.34brlcadjust so you don't get caught up in all the nasty that is involved in manually stitching together brep objects
19:40.45jdolinerk, what can I read about the .g format, I'm a bit unfamiliar with how to put operators in it
20:09.47*** part/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-75-169.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
20:16.13CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35038 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/rtgeom.h src/librt/primitives/metaball/metaball.c): fix "scalloping" bug by making step size depend on the smallest control point as well as the bounding sphere radius. Cache initial and final step sizes in the internal representation.
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20:36.51CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35039 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Plugging along with opennurbs_ext cleanup - compiles now but trimming isn't working.
21:45.46brlcadhello Patmcc19
21:58.22CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03r_weiss * r35040 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/make_pnts.c: added deallocation of internal structure when exit on error for make_pnts command
22:18.19CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35041 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: add support to rt to have a viewsize/scale/zoom option so you don't have to provide a -M view script just to get a bigger zoom size
22:19.33brlcadhehe, ``Erik .. you made it a lot worse :)
22:21.38``Erikermmmm, it looked fine on the 2 things you provided?
22:22.14brlcadtry running the metaballs tool and render meatballs.s
22:22.37``Erikmight have to tweak the formula or numbers for finding the 2 step sizes
22:22.51``Erikups and installs on his lappie
22:23.07brlcadyeah, there are like no anamolies on the middle, but now misses a solid 30% of the model
22:23.25``Erikhm
22:23.25brlcadoh, ya know what.. I think I had a mod in there too
22:23.30brlcadhold on, lemme make sure it's not me
22:23.39``Erikif anything, it'd be missing stuff in the middle, not towards th eedges
22:24.38brlcadhm, yeah, not just my mod
22:24.52brlcadpretty interesting pattern
22:26.25``Erikit rendered the 'make' primitive as well as the two in the .g file you provided just fine when I committed :/
22:26.37``Erik*shrug* compiling away, touched rtgeom.h heh
22:26.44brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/mbug/mbug2.png
22:26.49``Eriklooks like something common to mged got touched, too
22:27.31``Erik404
22:28.03brlcadrefresh
22:28.25``Erikneat
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22:46.28Witch_Docanyone here use navisworks?
22:54.26``Erikok, I see the issue, I have to contemplate the interplay of the different values to get the formula right
22:54.40``Erikforages
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23:17.05stevegt_hey all -- does anyone know of any python bindings for librt, SWIG or otherwise?
23:18.37stevegt_~seen brlcad
23:18.42ibotbrlcad is currently on #bzflag (13h 2m 54s) #brlcad (13h 2m 54s). Has said a total of 64 messages. Is idling for 50m 39s, last said: 'refresh'.
23:20.08``Erikthere was discussion about making a swig interface, but it never went anywhere, and I haven't heard of any python bindings :/
23:24.32stevegt_thanks ``Erik -- just wanted to check before I spend any time on it
23:25.37stevegt_another alternative would include patching nirt -- afaict, onehit is hardcoded...
23:25.54stevegt_or else i'm crazy
23:26.03``Erikswig interface to bu, bn, rt, ged, etc would probably be greatly appreciated and get snarfed into the repo pretty quickly
23:26.12stevegt_i bet it would  ;-)
23:26.25``Eriknirt is a fairly specialized rt shell
23:27.38stevegt_i'm wanting to be able to do batch python scripting of raytrace-based toolpath generation jobs, nirt looks like it might almost work, except for onehit...
23:28.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35042 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/metaball/metaball.c: more futzing with step sizes. This seems to render all the current test cases reasonably.
23:28.31``Erikwould like to do lisp coding around librt :)
23:28.40``Erikmebbe ruby, too
23:29.14stevegt_welll...  i suppose if someone were to make a working .i for librt, then you could use SWIG for lisp, python, perl, whatever...
23:29.33``Erikif you have experience with swig, include/bu.h include/bn.h include/ged.h include/raytrace.h to see how easy it would be to integrate? *shrug*
23:31.09stevegt_i did try the simple thing, including raytrace.h in the SWIG .i file -- blows chunks though; my first guess is that it's going to actually need some wrapper functions
23:32.22``Erikhm, bu.h might be the best first target, raytrace depends on libbn and libbu, libbn depends on libbu, ...
23:32.37``Erikbu just requires a sane system and tcl
23:32.49stevegt_SWIG docs say it doesn't run cpp, so I think that means all of brl-cad's macro function names are going to be in the way...
23:33.31``Erikhrm, perhaps convince make to run the headers through the preprocessor and sick swig on the output of that?
23:34.48stevegt_i ran cpp on raytrace.h myself, of course that pulls in the whole world, starting with stdio.h...  at some point someone's either going to have to massage cpp output, or just write a SWIGable library on top of librt
23:35.06stevegt_hmm.  maybe nirt might be a place to start with the latter
23:35.43stevegt_start with the nirt code, kill main()...
23:35.45``ErikI'm sure once some code hits the disk, bikeshed discussions will start about how it SHOULD have been done :)
23:36.01stevegt_yep
23:36.16``Erikso *shrug* release early, release often :)
23:36.43stevegt_do you have SVN commit access?
23:36.46``Erikyes
23:37.31stevegt_about how big is the local sandbox?  (I'm still running checkout)
23:37.47``Erikif you have something you'd like to contribute, upload it to the sourceforge patches tracker and hollar, someone will respond pretty darn quick :)
23:37.54``Erikum, "local sandbox"?
23:38.14``Erikon my mac, after everything is compiled, it all adds up to 730 megs
23:38.40stevegt_okay -- then i'm getting close
23:39.11``ErikI think it's more like 80-100 megs before compiling? *shrug*
23:40.13stevegt_uh oh -- i'm at 430 and counting so far -- you must be talking about trunk only or something
23:40.20``Erikyes, trunk only
23:40.33``Erikum, if you are getting every branch, that's many gigs :(
23:41.04``Eriksvn co https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
23:41.22stevegt_kills his 'svn co' and starts over ;-)
23:44.22``Erikok, here we go, if you add up the tags and branches, there are 95. You were checking out 95 copies of BRL-CAD :D
23:44.44stevegt_nope
23:45.04stevegt_i was checking out 95 copies of brlcad, as well as jbrlcad, rt^3, etc...  ;-)
23:45.19``Erikah, those arne't tagging or branching
23:45.28``Erikso 95 BRL-CAD's, plus the other five or 6
23:45.32stevegt_gee
23:46.11brlcadstevegt_: hehe
23:46.19brlcad~cadsvn
23:46.20ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
23:46.29brlcadthat there be the main line
23:47.14brlcadhmm.. python bindings.  not directly, but you can certainly script mged from python just fine and do nearly everything
23:47.53``Erikdoublecheck my metaball fix, brlcad, I think I have it 'ok' now. performance is kinda wonky, but it seems to do ok on all the geometry I threw at it
23:48.03brlcadit would be very trivial to bind libged to python, just nobody has done so (or needed to thusfar)
23:48.14brlcadyeah, saw the commit, was just about to try
23:48.39brlcadwill find some way to press the limits even further :)
23:48.50``Erikasymptotic performance of it is now noncontinuous :(
23:48.52brlcadthat script does make it trivial to make arbitrarily complex blobs
23:49.24``Erikmebbe some day I'll build an acceleration structure into the guts of it *sigh*
23:49.35brlcadriight :)
23:50.12``Erikyeah, about 6 months after I retire and find an ancient todo file.
23:50.32brlcadstevegt_: I wouldn't start with raytrace.h .. ged.h is a lot simpler interface, a little higher level
23:50.39stevegt_brlcad: looking
23:51.06brlcadwhat did you mean about nirt's onehit?
23:51.16brlcadnirt is pretty configurable (and scriptable) too
23:51.34brlcadit has a command-mode similar to mged
23:53.05brlcadstevegt_: fyi, also very keen on handing out commit access to folks that are actively interested in getting involved that are easy to work with, regardless of their project/goals/interests
23:55.55brlcadHACKING has some basic guidelines on top of that, but it mostly amounts to "do no harm" and aims to keep the project cohesive (we're complex enough as it is to be arguing over petty issues)
23:58.55stevegt_brlcad: <grin> re complex  ;-)
23:59.00brlcad``Erik: fyi, they're about to tag a final 3.4 itcl just so you know -- guys have been bugging them so they can update the ports entry, there is a b1 posted now
23:59.29``Erikhm, I finally got vidar back up and running, I still have to update cad/brlcad :/
23:59.32``Erikand a few others heh
23:59.39``Erikbugle, gauche, ...
23:59.51brlcadvidar?
23:59.54``Erikpoor machine went a year without updates
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090710

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090710

00:00.00``Erikyeah, my -current box at home
00:00.15brlcadthat sounds pretty gaydar :)
00:00.23``ErikO.o
00:00.32brlcadnow .. vigor :)
00:00.44``Erikheh, pheer my norse mythology machines.
00:00.58``Erikvidar == god of vengence
00:01.22stevegt_was confused: the line of code in nirt.c which i thought turns on onehit is turning it off instead -- i must be doing something else wrong though
00:02.09``Erikor onehit doesn't quite do what you think it does :)
00:03.12brlcadassume you've seen: http://brlcad.org/w/images/f/fe/Interactive_Raytracing_-_The_nirt_Command.pdf
00:03.44stevegt_wonders if he has to actually configure some 'fmt' commands to get nirt to show anything past the first hit
00:03.47brlcadstarseeker wrote a pretty extensive guide to using and configuring nirt
00:05.11stevegt_brlcad: no, i hadn't seen that PDF yet -- very cool
00:05.26brlcadlinked from http://brlcad.org/wiki/Documentation
00:05.39brlcadyeah.. not well organized on the doc front still :)
00:05.55brlcadthere's still a lot more not even uploaded, but it'd just get even more messy
00:07.56brlcadstevegt_: I intentionally didn't add distribute() to the header since it was basically being used as an implementation detail and not part of the interface
00:08.15brlcaddoesn't matter much at this point, but worth noting
00:17.51stevegt_brlcad: the docs that aren't uploaded -- are they in svn?
00:20.41brlcadsome are, many aren't.. docs accumulated over the years
00:21.09brlcadfigure a 1M codebase, 25 or so years .. lot of docs, presentations, papers, etc have been written
00:22.04stevegt_yep -- and i'm assuming some only exist on paper at this point
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00:23.29stevegt_i'm noticed that google can't find some of the papers referred to in the bottom of man pages
00:23.35stevegt_s/i'm/i've/
00:24.46stevegt_now *there's* a possible GSoC project -- organize, scan stuff in...
00:25.44brlcadheh, I wish.. gsoc has to be coding
00:25.52brlcadghop perhaps
00:26.19brlcadI try to get new folks introduced by having them work on docs, but they tend to get quickly absorbed into coding *ahem*
00:27.28brlcadstill think our greatest accelleration of activity could be gained by putting (a LOT of) effort into well organized docs and sources, even without new features or improved gui
00:27.38stevegt_yes
00:28.13stevegt_i've been spending > 50% of my time reading code 'cause i can't find what i'm looking for in docs
00:28.26stevegt_that's gotta be a hurdle  ;-)
00:28.40brlcadtis a major project, though .. and major organization feat, and not very exciting work for most :)
00:28.50brlcadyeah
00:29.03brlcadgetting the new website up certainly helped a lot, but even that was just a start
00:37.47yukonbobhello, cadheadsw
00:37.50yukonbob*cadheads
00:39.39stevegt_goes to get the kids -- bbl
00:40.40brlcadhowdy yukonbob! .. half hoped you might clean up all that wiki spam we got :)
00:40.44brlcadcya stevegt_
00:56.01yukonbobbrlcad: /me hadn't seen spam
00:56.25yukonbobbrlcad: how's it going? Long time, no chat
00:58.00brlcadgoing pretty good
00:59.48yukonbobdoesn't see spam...
01:01.01dtidrowbrlcad: i see that Lee is doing some OpenSceneGraph work - is he back from his 'sabbatical'?
01:09.08brlcaddtidrow: yep, he's back
01:09.20brlcadbeen back for nearly a year now?
01:09.41dtidrowheh - that's how far out of the loop I've been  ;-)
01:09.49brlcadyeah, maybe more than a year actually ..
01:10.03brlcadyukonbob: I took care of it all already
01:10.08dtidrowso what's he doing with OSG/
01:10.11dtidrow?
01:10.48dtidrow(note to self - get new keyboard to fix sticky shift key...)
01:20.09yukonbobis there anybody else who isn't loving compiling opennurbs (i.e. isn't successfull)?
01:24.14``Erikhasnt had issues with opennurbs, just libpc :/
01:45.41brlcaddtidrow: interactive visualization, related to his research project back in utah
01:46.09brlcadyukonbob: yeah, no problems here nor have I heard of any
01:51.07yukonbobwill pursue...
02:07.15brlcad``Erik: woo hoo .. feels like it's an order of magnitude slower now, but no problems observed thusfar
02:12.13starseekerindianlarry: does the nurbs_sphere.s test case work for you with latest svn?
02:14.50``Erikit is much slower, the speed now is mostly dependent on the smallest field strength
02:15.20``Erikirregardless of the bounding sphere diameter
02:15.37``Erikso a small control point in a big bounding sphere does a LOT more point checks
02:20.16CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35043 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CMakeLists.txt OgreScene.cxx OgreScene.h): Split Ogre/Qt work off into a separate target (make ogretest).
02:20.20Ralithcan someone build g3d to see if it's survived my hackery?  My updated ogre install here breaks RBGui so I can't easily test myself.
02:24.07Ralithit *should* be okay; the only error I'm getting is the one concerning RBGui/Ogre unhappiness, but it would be nice to be sure.
02:39.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35044 10/rt^3/trunk/include/GE/io/DataStream.h: include sys/types.h for definition of uint
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03:41.02Ralithooh, I think I've found a way to step Qt without reimplementing QApplication!
03:42.17Raliththis should make the ogre-centric approach much easier.
03:48.08Ralithwait, what
03:51.43Raliththat's funny...
03:56.45Ralithoh wow, I think ogre's been flipping buffers this whole time after all
04:00.34RalithDAMN.
04:00.36Raliththat didn't solve it.
04:07.04CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35045 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ogretest.cxx: Added a file forgotten from my previous commit.
04:08.07Ralithon the up side...
04:08.11Ralithcustom event loop works
04:08.16Ralithmainloop*
04:08.24CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35046 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/OgreScene.cxx:
04:08.31CIA-32BRL-CAD: Removed a call that was causing Ogre to go through a full render sequence (undesirable, as it involves buffer flipping and possibly
04:08.37CIA-32BRL-CAD: other actions based on the assumption that Ogre is the only user of the context), and disabled Ogre rendering altogether to test Qt
04:08.44CIA-32BRL-CAD: operation with a custom event loop (successful).
04:33.53CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35047 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/QtRenderListener.h: Beginnings of the QtRenderListener, which should eventually allow Qt to render cleanly on Ogre's terms.
04:34.01Ralithgrabs food
05:22.35Ralithreturns and starts hacking on the impl
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08:47.08CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35048 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (QtRenderListener.cxx QtRenderListener.h): First-try implementation of QtRenderListener, which should allow Qt to be safely rendered without conflicting with Ogre.
08:48.42Ralithhokay, semi-ogre centric (managed to rely on Qt more than I had initially expected) implementation put together; now to rewrite the test code to find out if it works.
08:51.43CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35049 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/QtRenderListener.cxx: Added a safety check to prevent any attempt to use the listener with a non-OpenGL Ogre backend.
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09:30.52CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35050 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp:
09:30.53CIA-32BRL-CAD: fixed crash on MS Windows with brlcad.dll
09:30.57CIA-32BRL-CAD: trim.m_ei = -1 => this trim lies on a portion of a singular surface side
09:30.59CIA-32BRL-CAD: (see src\other\openNURBS\example_brep\example_brep.cpp)
09:32.18CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35051 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: fixed crash on MS Windows with brlcad.dll and nurbs_test.g
09:41.21CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35052 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/ (Makefile.am nirt.dsp): MSVC 6.0 isn't supported any more
10:14.28CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1557 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Logs for 2009-07-08 and 2009-07-09
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12:46.17CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35053 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: Fixed a couple spelling errors
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13:05.26CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35054 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: metaball scalloping was fixed last night (I hope)
13:07.56``Erik*mumble*
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13:38.17CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35055 10/rtcmp/trunk/tri.c: fix typo in comment
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14:10.05CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35056 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/nirt.c:
14:10.07CIA-32BRL-CAD: no extra setmode for MS Windows
14:10.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: we need the O_TEXT mode here: it converts the CR-LF from the input stream to a single LF (and vice versa for the output)
14:16.58CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35057 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): include the nirt program in the MS Windows CMake build
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14:34.04``Erikexplains what sleep() does to his officemate. *sigh*.
14:34.56brlcadheh
14:35.33brlcadbetter to teach him what "man 3 sleep" does
14:35.41CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35058 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c: Cleanup of some of the vector equations, and some reworking of the method the human is generated.
14:35.47``Erikah, theboy, that, um, line wasn't in the history file
14:36.00``Erikif'n ya noticed my sudo spaz earlier
14:40.14``Erikhuh, no joy :/
14:41.33``Erikahhhhhhh
14:41.41``Erikwas using the wrong username heh
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17:27.32brlcadhello elena
17:28.27elenahi.
17:28.45elenahow are you?
17:28.56brlcadgreat!
17:29.26brlcadplaying with the metaballs example tool at the moment
17:30.41brlcadwas hoping the recent fix worked ... and it almost does .. but not quite, has lots of anamolies still
17:30.51elenabugs are not funny.
17:30.52brlcadalbeit on a massive metaball dataset.. 10k points :)
17:32.50elenai don't know what's that.
17:36.35brlcadthey're "blobby" shapes that are defined by points and threshold/weighting factors
17:36.42brlcadexample: http://brlcad.org/tmp/metaball.png
17:37.06elenai've notice a lot of talk around them lately.
17:37.35brlcadyeah, I was putting together an example of using them in code
17:37.48brlcadfound a handfull of issues that we've been working on fixing
17:40.26brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/metaball2.png  even better example
17:41.47elenanice.
17:42.05elenathe former was the funnier :)
17:42.56brlcadhehe
17:46.23``Eriksince it's a sampling algo instead of a solver, there'll always be 'anomalies', it's a tradeoff between how many and how fast :(
17:46.56elenanice.
17:46.56``Erikmebbe the initial  and final step sizes should be user specifiable
17:49.15CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35059 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: the lingering ogl framebuffer after an rt is consuming 100% cpu (sometimes?) until the window is closed. needs to sleep/select instead of spin.
17:49.53CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35060 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/metaball.c:
17:49.55CIA-32BRL-CAD: add the ability to be able to specify how many points you want instead of just
17:50.01CIA-32BRL-CAD: the previous hard-coded value. uses 1/111, 10/111, and 100/111 for the three
17:50.03CIA-32BRL-CAD: datasets it creates (with at least 1 per set) so that the final is close to the
17:50.07CIA-32BRL-CAD: requested value (plus one or two more).
17:55.01brlcad``Erik: http://brlcad.org/tmp/mbug/mbug3.png .. it's pretty close, just a little chewing
17:55.21brlcadand it didn't take as long as it seemed, maybe 5-10 min
17:55.56brlcadgranted, with some partitioning, that'd probably be down to less than a min :)
17:56.18``Erikmaking the initstep size smaller will alleviate that... feel free to come up with a better formula, it's not computed per ray anymore, so there's no need to make it simple and fast *shrug*
17:56.35``Erikit's now in _prep
17:56.36``Erik:D
17:57.28``Erikfiguring out which formula is being used might be important O.o
17:58.00``Erikis guessing there is an "unreasonably small" point in your cloud forcing it into t he bounding volume algo
17:59.55brlcadhehe, just printed/sorted all balls
18:00.03brlcadsmalles is 0.000574094
18:00.53brlcad20 or so are an order "bigger", then everything else is an order larger (0.01+) still
18:01.12brlcadlargest is 51.1789
18:01.31``Erikand the bounding volume radius? a couple thousand? heh
18:05.32CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35061 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Continue tweaking opennurbs cleanup files
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18:22.10CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35062 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c:
18:22.14CIA-32BRL-CAD: Made arms, legs use human_data_t struct for limb positioning
18:22.20CIA-32BRL-CAD: Made arms get limb positioning externally of arm function.
18:22.22CIA-32BRL-CAD: Added command line attribute to make premade stances, '-s#'
18:22.24CIA-32BRL-CAD: -s0 = stand -s1 = sit, -s2 = drive
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18:38.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35063 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/text.tcl: Update tab_expansion proc to work with the new expand behavior (i.e. expand returns an empty string if nothing suitable is found in the database).
19:02.33CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35064 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c:
19:02.34CIA-32BRL-CAD: Added roundness to shoulder area.
19:02.36CIA-32BRL-CAD: Also refined some poses, so there are now 4 programed-
19:02.40CIA-32BRL-CAD: stand, sit, drive, arms out, fancy sit
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19:54.59CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1558 10/wiki/More_Changelog: /* July 7 - Today */
20:08.21CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35065 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): More nurbs tweaks - getting visual artifacts in the sphere when I use sane flatness settings that are due to intersection failures on the hierarchy - so far haven't successfully tracked down the problem.
20:09.40CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35066 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/librt/librt.vcproj: Added brep_debug to the librt build.
20:12.56starseekergrowls in frustration
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20:24.19CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35067 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/3ptarb.c: Free memory.
20:27.16CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35068 10/brlcad/trunk/ (56 files in 5 dirs):
20:27.18CIA-32BRL-CAD: These changes fix bug 2278126 (i.e. rt doesn't get geometry path right). The
20:27.20CIA-32BRL-CAD: tact was to replace the solids list with a display list where each item in the
20:27.22CIA-32BRL-CAD: list refers to what was asked to be drawn. Each of these display list items has
20:27.26CIA-32BRL-CAD: its own solids list.
20:30.55*** join/#brlcad stevegt_ (n=stevegt@cislunar.TerraLuna.Org)
20:39.42jdolinerwhat tools does brlcad already have for polynomial manipulation, solving evaluating etc?
20:41.40jdolineraha libbn/poly.c
20:45.43jdolineris there support for multivariate polynomial anywhere?
20:46.26pacman87jdoliner: not that i found, and the solver is limited to 4th order
21:14.34jdolinerwell I definitely need those to proceed
21:15.01pacman87what are you trying to do with multivariable polynomials?
21:15.05pacman87systems of equations?
21:15.11jdolineryes
21:15.35jdolinernurbs surface intersection
21:15.39jdolinerto be precise
21:16.00pacman87two second-order two-variable equations can be combined to get a fourth order single-variable equation for one variable
21:17.15pacman87if you need higher-order polynomials, you may have to use an iterative solver
21:18.00jdolinerIn the literature they use the dixon resultant
21:18.31jdolinerwe don't have any such solvers already implemented do we?
21:18.46pacman87i don't know enough to answer that
21:19.51jdolinerk
21:20.25jdolinerbrlcad impart some wisdom?
21:25.45``Eriktold him to look at irc
21:26.17jdolinerthanks
21:44.43CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35069 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c: Cleaned up some code
21:51.27CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35070 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Changes to get things building on MSVC8.
21:59.48CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03r_weiss * r35071 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/make_pnts.c: improved error messages, logic cleanup
22:02.31*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-211.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
22:40.30stevegt_is pondering two alternatives: (1) write his 2d laser cutter toolpath generation tool as a C executable (2) write it as a python wrapper around nirt and mged
22:42.01stevegt_given my python currency and C rustiness, I'm favoring the latter, but don't want to make people go "ooooh, yuck"
22:42.20stevegt_s/the latter/the python route/
22:45.45stevegt_seems like brl-cad's history has favored special-purpose C executables in ./bin, rather than special-purpose scripting around fewer, more general-purpose C cores
22:46.50Ralithstevegt_: a wrapper around nirt and mged would be a very strange thing to do, considering that you'll want to interact with rt directly.
22:47.18Ralithwhat you could do instead would be write a python API for rt and whatever else you need, and then use that in python.
22:47.38stevegt_Ralith: so far it's looking like nirt's custom outputs can give me everything i need
22:47.42stevegt_other than speed  ;-)
22:48.06Ralithstevegt_: still a very strange thing to do, and probably relatively slow at that.
22:48.06Ralithusing the API directly would be immensely cleaner
22:48.14Ralithand probably less prone to breakage
22:49.55stevegt_i agree that the "right" thing to have would be python bindings for librt and/or libged etc. -- but that give me a much longer lead time to get the machine design project done that i'm actually supposed to be working on
22:50.08stevegt_i'm already getting pressure to "just use solidworks"  ;-)
22:50.14Ralithactually, wrapping a C API in your language of choice is usually trivial
22:50.20stevegt_s/give/gives/
22:50.43RalithI'm not familiar with python's relevant facilities, but it's generally a task so straightforward as to be easily automated :P
22:50.48Ralithin fact...
22:51.04stevegt_Ralith: brl-cad's use of macros for function names makes SWIG less straightforward to run
22:51.19stevegt_afaict anyway
22:51.26Raliththat would be odd; it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do
22:51.47Raliththings like POSIX actually explicitly state that macros can be used interchangably with functions in many contexts
22:51.53stevegt_SWIG doesn't run cpp
22:52.01Ralithgood thing the API you'd be wrapping is C :P
22:52.26stevegt_so it's "easier" to just write a new .h, rather than use e.g. raytrace.h or ged.h
22:52.37Ralithwat
22:53.11Ralithstevegt_: like I said, the API is all C.
22:53.16Raliththere's no C++.
22:53.19stevegt_when i say "cpp" i mean "the C preprocessor"
22:53.27Ralithoh :P
22:53.31Raliththat's a highly ambiguous term
22:54.11Ralithso run SWIG on the functions and rewrite the macros in python?
22:54.30``Erikheh, only to retards who fuck up terminology and think cpp means c++, instead of using .c++, .C, .cxx, ...
22:54.32``Erik:D
22:54.33``Erik*duck*
22:55.00Ralith:[
22:55.19Ralith.C is a bad idea
22:55.24Ralithgiven the existence of case insensitive filesystems
22:55.26stevegt_deletes a line about "dinosaurs like me who think of C++ as a new language"
22:56.29stevegt_s/new/new and unproven/
22:57.01Ralithstevegt_: and of course a pure C implementation would be cool too, simply because of the drastically smaller overhead, but if you're not comfortable in C and don't have the time to become so then it's not worth the effort
22:59.51stevegt_Ralith: I think it's one of those things where I'd better go ahead and do it the fastest way, lest it not get done at all  ;-)
23:00.01Ralithreasonable.
23:00.21stevegt_or at least try -- the parsing of mged output might slow things down enough that i'd have to go to pure C anyway
23:00.56Ralithwhat do you need mged for?
23:01.02stevegt_depends on how many rays I wind up working with for a reasonably-complex assembly
23:01.38stevegt_I *think* I need mged just to list the basic shapes, so I know I'm hitting all of them while discovering holes and other booleans
23:02.45Ralither
23:02.51Ralithall you should need to know is the region you're targeting
23:02.58Ralithwhich the user is supposed to provide
23:06.08stevegt_i need to be able to make sure that any grid or other pattern is fine-grained enough to hit hairline features -- they are easy to machine with a laser, and do get used
23:06.46Raliththe way you do that is by shooting enough rays that your resultant toolpath is guaranteed to be more precise than the machine can produce
23:09.12*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
23:11.39``Erikyou can ignore mged and write a treewalk routine to collect all the region names.
23:12.15stevegt_Ralith: i guess i'm (possibly prematurely) trying to optimize, was thinking about adaptively sizing a tight grid around edges, ignoring the rest -- if i just to a uniform grid, then we're looking at about a half-billion rays for a 20" square
23:12.18``Erikdb_walk_tree() or one of that family
23:12.23stevegt_the laser precision is 50 um
23:12.52Ralithstevegt_: did you expect you wouldn't be using a lot of rays? :P
23:12.52stevegt_``Erik: in python
23:12.55Ralithdon't optimize prematurely.
23:13.04Ralithmake it work, THEN make it fast.
23:13.50stevegt_Ralith: i'm going to have to do some performance proof of concepts up front -- maybe i don't need the adaptive grid
23:14.42Ralithstevegt_: unless you're trying to shoot rays via calling an external tool one ray at a time it should be fine.
23:17.19Ralith<PROTECTED>
23:18.12stevegt_i'm thinking to essentially drive nirt as a filter, control both stdin and stdout/err from the python script, so it only needs to fork once, keep it fed with a stream of rays
23:19.52stevegt_i'll test the speed of all this this weekend, see if it makes sense at all
23:22.39stevegt_anyway, Ralith, ``Erik, thanks for being a sounding board -- i can see now that i need to do the performance testing next, before i decide anything else
23:33.56Ralithnp
23:33.58Ralithbest of luck!
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090711

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090711

01:40.36*** join/#brlcad stevegt_ (n=stevegt@c-24-130-122-25.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
01:54.17*** part/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-75-169.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
05:15.48Ralithquiet evening
06:43.37CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35072 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CMakeLists.txt OgreScene.cxx OgreScene.h ogretest.cxx): Incomplete test for Ogre/Qt integration
06:47.33CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35073 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ogretest.cxx: Initialize and single-step Qt before Ogre to ensure that a GL context exists for Ogre to render to.
06:55.27CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35074 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ogretest.cxx: Moved to Ogre's mainloop
06:59.15Ralithhm.
07:01.07CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35075 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (QtRenderListener.cxx ogretest.cxx): Added the usual test widget, which does not render correctly, but which has some interesting side effects on what is rendered.
07:05.14*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedyIII (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
07:05.31Ralithwait
07:05.36RalithI guess that's not a side effect of the widget
07:05.37Ralithdamn.
07:09.19*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=pacman87@bz.bzflag.bz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
07:09.20*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedyII (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
07:09.32Ralithooh
07:09.33Ralithpromising, I think
07:10.08*** join/#brlcad pacman871 (n=pacman87@bz.bzflag.bz)
07:13.28CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35076 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ogretest.cxx:
07:13.30CIA-32BRL-CAD: Switched to a custom mainloop which instructs Ogre not to swap the OpenGL
07:13.32CIA-32BRL-CAD: buffers, because Qt presumably does this. While it has not been determined
07:13.34CIA-32BRL-CAD: whether Qt's buffer swap occurs at the right time, this has a promising side
07:13.36CIA-32BRL-CAD: effect: a corner of the render window contains a block of white, the default
07:13.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: background color of Qt's rendering.
07:14.34RalithI wonder if that guy Assaf who came up with this approach is still around.
07:21.03Ralithlistens to his hdd click away
08:40.24CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1559 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Log for 2009-07-10
08:43.14CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1560 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Added additional notes on the questionable safety of Qt's buffer swap to 2009-07-10's log entry
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11:17.07``Erik*yawn*
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13:56.47brlcadstevegt_: either of those two alternatives should work.  anything you write in 2 could be pretty trivially rewritten as 1 by one of us
13:59.10brlcadstevegt_: and you're right regarding special-purpose binaries in a unix-style that do one thing (presumably well) and that can be tied together with other commands, mged then adds a slew of special-purpose scripting facilities (in Tcl) on top of that -- there are about 400 binaries, about 700 tcl commands (although many are "dev" commands)
14:04.21brlcadthe performance of scripting nirt really shouldn't be a problem unless you need to invoke nirt or mged thousands/millions of times, then the overhead starts to heavily outweight the ray-shooting time
14:04.43brlcadif you just invoke nirt once and keep streaming it commands, it'll be negligible
14:07.17``Erikunless the geometry is insane (millions of regions or something)
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14:25.12brlcadthe more insane the geometry is, the even less of a problem scripting nirt/mged will be though
14:26.08brlcadah, you mean a heavy prep .. yes, that's true
14:27.12brlcadprep+shot have to be on par or less than process creation+initialization overhead to start with, at least within order of magnitude I'd say
14:29.51``Erikthe, uh, woogie/skippy geometry I have takes over a minute to prep on my workstation :( parallel prep would be nice
14:34.40``Erikhttp://brownsharpie.courtneygibbons.org/?p=21
14:34.42``Erikheh
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15:11.11CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35077 10/isst/trunk/ (Makefile.am configure.ac src/Makefile.am utils/Makefile.am): cleanup. Remove unused library info. distcheck acid test.
15:25.39brlcadyeah, we do need parallel prep, it's just going to get worse
15:27.04brlcadi think the best approach for that will be to break up prep into its contituent parts (bounding sphere, bounding box, precalcs), and parallelize those
15:27.33brlcadthough it probably wouldn't take much book-keeping to also parallelize each primitive's prep independently too
15:29.54``Erikwas thinking a task graph with dependancies to build a queue and a worker set *shrug*
15:35.54brlcaddoes a doubletake at the new user :)
15:36.04brlcadhow'd you capture the data dependencies?
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15:36.50``Erikhuh?
15:37.02``Erikif you don't like the new user, migrate to the new machine, damnit
15:37.25``ErikI'm trying to futz for a semi-safe daily rsync cron :(
15:37.27brlcadno, it's fine, just made me doubletake =()
15:37.46brlcadwho? .. someone break in .. oh right, heh
15:44.07``Erikblehehhhh
15:47.50``Erikthere we go heh
15:49.41brlcad:)
15:50.44``Erikecho "0 0 * * * root echo 'migrate to the new machine!' | write sean" >> /etc/crontab
15:50.46``Erik*cough*
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17:22.09brlcadheh
17:23.17brlcadsigns up for google voice, conviently finding a baltimore city prefix with his balanced prime house number
17:40.15Axman6i'm seriously considering submitting that to bash.org for how geeky it is :)
17:51.14``Erikdon't forget qdb.us if you do that
17:51.42``Erikis annoyed that both of them have gone to updating so infrequently :(
17:57.21Axman6:(
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18:59.28CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35078 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/opennurbs_cleanup.h src/librt/opennurbs_cleanup.cpp): More tweaking openNURBS cleanup
19:34.36CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35079 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/opennurbs_cleanup.h src/librt/opennurbs_cleanup.cpp):
19:34.39CIA-32BRL-CAD: Hmm. There is some flaw in the way the surface tree is being built (the leaves
19:34.43CIA-32BRL-CAD: are coming out different, and the intersects hierarchy test is reporting misses
19:34.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: where geometrically there shouldn't be misses.) Will have to more carefully
19:34.47CIA-32BRL-CAD: compare how the trees are being built between old and new methods.
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23:06.12Ralithbrlcad: there you are!
23:06.15Ralithhow're my commits?
23:19.09brlcadRalith: they are great, keep it up :)
23:19.27brlcadthat's exactly what should be sustained from everyone .. :)
23:19.39Ralith^^
23:19.56Ralithcurrent approach is promisingish
23:20.31RalithI'm sort of abusing Qt but it may get/have gotten us at least partway there..
23:21.37Raliths/.././
23:22.04RalithI managed to make it ogre-driven while still having Qt manage the OS window
23:22.27RalithI have to say, I'm appreciating how flexible that toolkit is already.
23:32.49brlcadaaah, the reminders get sent today, hm
23:33.22brlcadyeah, I saw the looping updates -- not sure I'd call it abuse :)
23:33.32brlcadthey make it flexible for this exact sort of purpose
23:33.54brlcadanother option is/was to inherit off of one of the base classes and override behavior
23:41.45RalithI'm not sure how I'd do that and to achieve the goal of getting Qt to render when Ogre wants it to
23:42.09Ralithshort of somehow deferring all opengl calls
23:45.20Raliththe original approach with OgreScene overriding QGraphicsScene's drawBackground amounted to rendering Ogre when Qt wanted it to, and didn't really work at all.
23:46.12Raliththough if this doesn't work out, I think I'll try using Assaf's state-reset techniques within the QGraphicsScene drawBackground; they're rather more elaborate than what I had attempted.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090712

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090712

00:53.36Ralithif you have any ideas on other approaches, I'd love to hear them
01:20.28Ralithbrlcad: should I be committing things that amount to "let's see what happens when I comment *this* bit out!"
01:21.40``Erikif it's just thrash, probably not... if you find a handful that actually make it closer to what you want, probably...
01:22.39Ralithyeah, if it actually makes a noticable improvement I'll certainly be checking that in.
02:21.00brlcadRalith: if it does anything at all interesting (i.e. worth commenting on even if just mentally to yourself) beyond "well, shit, that didn't do anything" .. then yeah, probably should commit it
02:35.15Ralithit's mostly the "well, shit, that didn't do anything" case I was wondering about.
02:35.18Raliththanks
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05:10.25Ralithokay, something weird is going on.
05:11.02RalithI comment out the loadIdentity for the GL texture matrix, and the corner of white goes to a full window of white.
05:11.11RalithI uncomment it, and it stays that way.
05:11.34Ralith(also, it appears that the white isn't from Qt as hoped; the presence or abscence of the Qt call doesn't effect it.
05:13.53Ralith)
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06:52.34Ralithand now it's started being a corner again, and I haven't even changed the code.
06:52.35Ralithwth.
06:53.30Ralithit seems to change at random.
06:53.38Ralith(not during a run, though)
07:03.13Ralithcontacts the author of the Ogre raw OpenGL rendering code he's been working off of
08:00.16CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1564 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Log for 2009-07-11
10:48.49``ErikOpenGL is a state machine, could it be that you were seeing uninitialized state left over on the card (or in the driver)?
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21:31.18Ralith``Erik: uninitialized? I don't entirely follow.
21:31.39RalithI mean, Ogre's doing its rendering, and then Qt's doing its own, and both are meant to operate on a raw context; I would imagine any uninitialized state would be taken care of.
21:31.55RalithI'm pretty sure the white background is actually a side effect of a 'clear pass' that the reset code does
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21:33.59``ErikI d'no how qt and ogre work, I know back in the day, doing straight OGL, if you attached a context and viewed it without drawing to it, you'd get the results of the last render, if you didn't set the matrices, they'd still have the old values (even though the old program stopped and the new one started)
21:34.54``Erikjust like some os's would have arbitrary junk in memory you just malloc'd from some other program that had used that memory before
21:34.58Ralithyeah, there's quite a bit of code in there that goes out of its way to tidy up after Ogre so other rendering can be done, and restore to the state Ogre expects afterwards.
21:35.18Ralithso assuming that code is complete, that shouldn't be an issue.
21:35.19``Erik*shrug* then that's probably not it, was just an idea :)
21:35.23Ralithyeah
21:35.27Ralithgood one
21:35.41Ralithconsidering that it's such a big issue that it needs explicit handling in the first place
21:43.11``Erik<-- used to have something of a clue, way back in the day O:-)
21:43.27``Eriky'know, with the punch cards and magentic drums and audiocouple tty's and all that
21:43.40Ralithhehe
21:43.45Ralithback when you could see the bits with the naked eye?
21:49.50``Erikshit, we used two pieces of wire and a small magnet to do input
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090713

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090713

02:15.03*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
02:50.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r35080 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp:
02:50.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: added adjacent face code to curve trims, also added cleanup of face hitlist
02:50.14CIA-32BRL-CAD: for cases where multiple INs/OUTs of faces encountered
02:53.22CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r35081 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h: add adjacent face code to curve trims
02:54.49CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r35082 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: add adjacent face code to trim curves
02:56.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r35083 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/brep.c librt/primitives/brep/brep_debug.cpp): added more debugging code/options to mged brep command
06:53.34Ralithbrlcad: I'd like to discuss the possibility of just not rendering Qt into the OpenGL context, at least for now; most of the rest of what I proposed to work on can be completed with Qt simply sitting on *top* of the context, although some parts might not be quite as shiny as would otherwise be possible.
06:54.43Ralithand I don't think it would take much rewriting to modify said work to operate inside a GL context when a way is (hopefully) eventually found.
06:55.24Ralithconsidering how standard Qt widgets and even entire windows can be literally dropped directly in with little or no special consideration.
06:56.25RalithI can produce much more visible and interesting work this way, and continue conversations with more Ogre- and Qt-knowledgable people to work out the GL issue in the background.
07:02.54*** join/#brlcad LarsG (n=lars@dial208-53.dialup.nus.edu.sg)
07:03.01*** part/#brlcad LarsG (n=lars@dial208-53.dialup.nus.edu.sg)
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11:59.00d-loMernin all!!
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13:01.37``Erik*burp*
13:03.04``Erikany news on the injector/server project, d-lo?
13:36.17CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35084 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/cleditor/STEPfile.inline.cc:
13:36.19CIA-32BRL-CAD: apply a simple patch that should hopefully fix sf bug 2820579, reported by Jeff
13:36.21CIA-32BRL-CAD: Meldrum (jspaces) regarding a const to non-const conversion. according to a
13:36.23CIA-32BRL-CAD: handful of online sources, c++ apparently changes the signature of strrchr from
13:36.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: the posix C decl with two overloaded possibilities, both input and return are
13:36.27CIA-32BRL-CAD: either const or non-const.
13:54.40CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35085 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c: Changed the torso parts to use a TGC instead of a RCC to make it less bulkly looking, and more human shaped.
14:26.55*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:30.19d_rossbergd-lo: to have a header file with defines for the version numbers appears to be an issue of its own
14:36.17d_rossbergd-lo: because of the common.h issue i need to have a look at my linux build at home ...
14:39.05d-loah!  minimized the irc window.  Sorry.
14:39.36d-lofyi a simple rename of common.h to cicommon.h worked like a champ.
14:40.14d-loLooking through things, I see that in order to generate {RT3}/include/brlcad/brlcadversion.h, you have to have the source from the BRLCAD module.
14:41.00d-loOne of the assumptions I am making for the CMake build system in the rt^3 module is that, at a minimum, there is a BRLCAD install on the machine.  Not necessarily the source.
14:41.24d-loso I suppose I need to find out if there is a way to extract versioning information from a BRLCAD install.
14:41.28d-lo.... anyone know?
14:42.02d_rossbergthis would have been my next question :)
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14:42.32d-loi remember running across it somewheres.... just gotta find it :/
14:43.27d-loThere is a string reference to the package version on line 412 in brlcad_config.h
14:44.35d-loheh, I don't even know if its possible to do string parsing with CMake....
14:45.31_clock_d-lo: if it's turing equivalent then definitely yes :)
14:48.35d_rossbergmy philosophy with the core Interface is something different from yours:
14:48.50d_rossbergthe core interface is the interface for external programs
14:49.13d_rossbergthere shouldn't be any other include/brlcad
14:50.07d_rossbergand, to be honest we don't have such a directory at the moment
14:50.21d-loHrm, then, I suppose, the question is:  Why are there coreInterface include files in rt3? By that philosphy, shouldn't they be in the brlcad module?
14:50.40d_rossbergthe include/brlcad from the installation has to be added explicitely (i hink) to the inlude paths
14:50.56d_rossbergd-lo: yes
14:51.03d-lothe include/brlcad from the BRLCAD installation?
14:51.10d_rossberghowever, that's my opinion
14:51.25d_rossbergthe one you have the problem with
14:52.59d_rossbergnow i remember: i added only the include/brlcad directory from the installation to the include paths
14:53.08d-loHeh, well, if its your opinion that they should be in the BRLCAD module... put em there :)  They're your babies, store them wherever you want :)  don't let that BRLCAD guy tell you otherwise :)
14:53.29d_rossbergi.e. not the inlude directory alone
14:54.22d-loah, so {BRLCAD_INSTALL_PATH}/include/brlcad/ and not {BRLCAD_INSTALL_PATH}/include/ ?
14:54.35d_rossbergthis way i didn't get the confusion between the two common.h
14:54.46d_rossbergd-lo: yes
14:55.53d-loAnother question then:  What is stopping you from moving the coreInterface files into the brlcad module?
14:57.44d-lodoesn't want to sound offensive. Just trying to get rt^3 whipped into shape.
14:58.07d_rossbergthere are still some incompatibilities: e.g. which files should be copied into the installation directory at include/brlcad ? :)
14:59.38d-lowhy not put all your headers into include/brlcad/ci/ ?
14:59.46d-loresolves a lot of problems...
15:00.15d_rossbergno, they are intended for include/brlcad
15:00.50d_rossbergon the other side, d-lo, you have a point ther with the common.h issue
15:01.15d-loheh, well I am good at causing, er, finding problems.
15:01.42d_rossbergthe core interface should be usable in virtually every program
15:02.20d-loRight, but how does having the includes in include/brlcad/ci/ change that?  *confused*
15:03.19d_rossbergi.e. we may solve the issue with our own includes, but it could be wise to have a prefix for the BRL-CAd headers
15:03.53d_rossberg... i see the ci as the only interface, so why should it be in a subdirectory?
15:04.32d-loOrganizational reason only.  
15:05.03d-loAs far as I can tell, common.h is the only conflict.  all the rest of the coreInterface headers don't conflict.
15:05.34d-loAnd for organizational reasons, you are thinking that there should be prefixes on headers?   Did I understand that correctly?
15:06.57d_rossbergat the moment it is only an idea, i thought brlcad/ is already prefix enough ...
15:07.16d-loah, okay.  I see what you mean.
15:07.52d-loI haven't looked at the difference in the files, but is there a way to merge the two common.h's or should it be solved by a rename of one of them?
15:08.31d_rossbergyou could rename it to brlcadcommon.h
15:08.44d_rossbergthis name would match with brlcadversion.h
15:09.30d-loso rt^3/include/brlcad/common.h -> rt^3/include/brlcad/brlcadcommon.h ?
15:09.39d_rossbergyes
15:10.10d-loand then once that rename is done, would there be any other problems moving the coreInterface files to the brlcad module?
15:10.14d_rossbergand maybe rt^3/include/brlcad/globals.h ->
15:10.28d_rossbergrt^3/include/brlcad/brlcadglobals.h
15:10.39d-lookay, the globals makes sense also.
15:11.01d_rossbergthe other file names start with a capital letter
15:11.07d_rossbergi.e. are unique
15:11.42d_rossberg(at least fot *IX)
15:12.10d-loright on.
15:13.03d-loIf you would like, I can move the coreInterface files over to the BRLCAD module... or I can just leave them where they are and unwire them from the CMake build system I am making.  Your choice, whatever you feel like. :)
15:16.29CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r35086 10/rt^3/trunk/cmake/FindBRLCAD.cmake: Fixing some bugs in FindBRLCAD.cmake
15:21.38d_rossberghow does this go together with your plans with the "Geometry Engine"?
15:22.34d-loI am working on changing the whol rt3 module over to CMake, and since coreInterface is in the rt3 module, I assumed I needed to work it in to the build also.
15:24.46d_rossbergi meant you wanted to make the coreInterface part of your GE
15:26.35d_rossberghas to go now
15:51.00brlcad~seen madant
15:51.01ibotmadant <i=cb7baf0f@gateway/web/freenode/x-a32eed164597bd06> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 9d 19h 29m 7s ago, saying: 'nothing more disastrous than non-cooperative softwares ;)'.
15:51.30d-lowow... 9 days
15:58.40CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r35087 10/rt^3/trunk/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Unwiring coreInterface from CMake for now. There is a dependancy that requires the brlcad source to be present on the computer instead of just the installation.
15:58.41d-lohowdy brlcad !
16:08.45d-lohates having an ogre<->boost dep.
16:08.49d-lobangs head on wall.
16:18.15d-loRalith:  based on what I have read, I think your current approach is the best.  You may have to modify your GSoC goals though.
16:20.22brlcadboost is an easy dep, just a bunch of header files :)
16:20.59d-loright, but ogre isn't building without it.  Even when i set OGRE_USE_BOOST to OFF, it still tries to link against it :/
16:21.21brlcadso? .. don't turn it off..
16:21.46d-lonot to mention, when it IS properly linking, its claiming that boost::thread::hardware_concurrency() doesn't exist... when it does.  grrr.
16:22.01brlcador you mean they don't provide it and our subset doesn't provide what they need either?
16:22.05d-loRight, I have tried it both ways, both have compile problems.
16:22.21d-loI have boost installed in its entirety.
16:22.27brlcadboost threading is in the core, which brlcad module provides
16:22.47d-loEven with that, ogre is failing
16:23.00brlcadthen that's a problem with ogre, not boost
16:23.08d-loright.
16:23.16d-lonever said it wasn't. :)
16:23.50brlcadwell the "hate" is still somewhat misplaced :)
16:24.19brlcadi mean you're free to hate whatever you want, of course :)
16:24.27d-loI was gonna say...
16:24.33d-loits MY hate not yours.
16:24.35d-loget your own
16:24.41brlcadi hate you!
16:24.48d-lo*GASP*
16:24.59d-loDon't me hatin
16:25.14brlcadhates d-lo's ogre<->boost hate
16:25.41d-loI figure since Ogre loves boost so much, I *MUST* hate boost.  Seems natural.
16:27.18brlcadaside: you do know that most/many of the core (tr1) components of boost are going to become part of the c++ standard, yes?
16:27.18d-lowhen I build BRLCAD and install it, does libboostcore get installed also>
16:27.20d-lo?
16:27.53d-loYeah, you mentioned that.  I figure that will be a good time to become a pure C Zealot.  ;)
16:28.09brlcadheh
16:29.26brlcadlibboostcore??
16:30.05d-loyes, boost's core lib that you said is in the brlcad module.
16:30.17brlcadit's not a lib, it's headers
16:30.24d-lowell, whateveritsactuallycalled.
16:30.53d-loso it gets installed then?
16:31.22brlcadif you mean do we install the headers, I don't believe so at the moment as there was no need
16:32.00brlcadwould be trivial to install, but if we do that, we probably should bundle more than we are bundling so it's a complete dependency
16:32.06brlcadnot a subset like it presently is
16:32.15d-loWell hell.  How am I going to make Ogre behave then..... hrm
16:32.23brlcador you make rt^3's build require having a brlcad source tree as well
16:32.39brlcador you just require folks install all of boost first, old school
16:33.53d-loI was wondering about that...  what would be your opinion of 'best practice'?  Linking rt3 to a brlcad install or making rt3 dependant on the brlcad source?
16:38.21brlcadplenty of projects do both, the latter tends to suck more as it's just mostly dev convenience
16:38.36brlcadrt3 already requires a brlcad install, that's inevitable
16:39.21brlcadand our project practice is towards dependency management, not user-required actions (having them install boost would be a user-required dependency action)
16:39.44brlcadshort term, though, doesn't really matter -- so, they have to install qt+boost
16:40.18brlcadlong term, can probably upgrade the boost dep in brlcad module to a full copy and have it fully managed like other deps
16:41.44d-loalrighty then.
16:41.58d-loHave you read up on what Dr Rossberg and I were yaking about?
16:42.18starseekerthinks cracking proper Qt/OGRE integration would be very useful, even if it produces less visible result...
16:43.46d-lostarseeker: when I get install permission failures concerning tkhtml3, do i need to --disable-documentation to bypass that?
16:44.11brlcadnot yet, working on evals
16:44.11starseekerno, that's a mistake in the make file
16:44.24starseekeris that that nroff thing?
16:44.25d-lobrlcad: okie.
16:44.30starseekerhuts
16:44.34starseekerer, hunts even
16:44.42brlcadhas indianlarry done his eval yet?
16:44.53brlcadhe hadn't as of this morning
16:45.00brlcadonly has an hour or so before the deadline
16:45.05starseekerI'll ask
16:49.19starseekerd-lo: what's the specific failure on the permission?
16:49.44d-loI don't have access to /usr
16:49.50d-loerr write access
16:51.45starseekerhmm.
16:52.02starseekerI remember seeing that, and it had something to do with tkhtml.n
17:05.21CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35088 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkhtml3/Makefile.in: Don't set DESTDIR to empty in tkhtml3 Makefile.in
17:05.28starseekerd-lo: does that help?
17:05.43d-lolemme check.
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17:09.53d-lo*buildbuildbuild*
17:13.04d-lostarseeker:  Nope :(   still getting:  mkdir: cannot create directory `/usr/lib/Tkhtml3.0': Permission denied when trying to install to /home/dloman/
17:13.24starseekerhmm
17:16.55starseekergrr
17:21.58brlcadcould be some DESTDIR problem if there are custom install rules (not that there should be custom install rules)
17:22.40starseekeris wondering if the TEA extensions are getting into the act
17:22.50brlcadhm, could be
17:22.57brlcadloooks like they do have DESTDIR properly
17:23.20starseekerthat's why I nuked the empty DESTDIR line - thought perhaps that was killing the DESTDIR feed from configure
17:23.42starseekerwonder why it doesn't happen on all platforms...
17:24.19starseekerponders a pleading email to the TEA devs to integrate with autoconf/automake out of the box...
17:24.24brlcadmaybe it does
17:24.41starseekerjust did a make install on the mac - went to my local directory
17:24.52brlcadhave him send you his Makefile that was generated, compare it to yours
17:25.45d-lostarseeker: do you have write permissions to /usr/lib/ ?
17:25.54starseekerI shouldn't
17:26.14starseekernope
17:26.21d-lostarseeker: FYI, just got same error.
17:27.01d-lowhere is the brlcad.org pastbin again?
17:27.19starseeker~pastebin
17:27.20ibot[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste
17:28.02starseekerwell, I don't see ours there...
17:29.00d-loah ha:  http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/
17:30.29d-lostarseeker: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m94c45f1
17:33.18``Erik*readreadread*
17:33.54brlcadd-lo: you can tell rain that I made her some ceviche de camarones
17:33.56brlcadi'll bring some in for everyone to try tomorrow
17:34.07d-lokk
17:34.08``Erikthat sounds... so.. wrong...
17:34.35brlcadso yummy!
17:34.47d-lofrom Rain:  Spicy
17:34.48d-lo?
17:35.04d-lo'Rain's Spicy' that is.
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17:52.19CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35089 10/isst/trunk/src/main.c: set database and master hostnames in main()
17:53.31CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35090 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: extract attach code out of validation function
17:57.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35091 10/isst/trunk/ (8 files in 2 dirs): indent.
18:02.07CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35092 10/isst/trunk/src/main.c: fix wrong variable being set. woops.
18:02.18CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35093 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: have .g loading automatically attach to the master daemon.
18:06.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35094 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_cleanup.cpp: Ooops - add in the check to ensure bounding box dimensions are not degenerate in x, y or z
18:17.43brlcadnot so spicy
18:17.57brlcadI made it pretty mild
18:18.21brlcadshe'll probably still think it's hot, but it's not anywhere near what I usually do
18:18.39brlcadonly used a few habaneros for nearly 2lbs of shrimp
18:21.44brlcadstarseeker: any reason to not just increment the amount you tested against?
18:22.13brlcadpushing both max and min will make it 2x that value, should be enough
18:22.22brlcadand a lot tighter
18:23.34starseekerbrlcad: That's an option - right now I'm just trying to reproduce the bounding box behavior of the original code
18:23.41starseekerstill not there yet :-(
18:24.46starseekerOnce I do, I can go back and tighten it to the tolerance and see what that does :-)
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18:29.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35095 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/load_g.c: join slave_load_g() and some_intermediate_function()
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18:35.37``Erik*snrkt* wells fargo sueing itself, grand
18:37.39starseekerso when lawyers run out of targets, they start suing themselves?
18:38.02``Erikit's on /.
18:38.54``Erikcomments seem to indicate the combination of wells fargo having two mortgages on a house and florida law are forcing it to happen *shrug*
18:41.14starseekertalk about poetic justice...
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18:52.29``Erikhere's a better one, deep purple is paying fines for playing their own songs
18:52.34``Erikhttp://techdirt.com/articles/20090710/0340345512.shtml
18:59.50d-lo``Erik: heres SimStapler http://www.freeverse.com/games/game/?id=7022
19:27.01``Eriknice
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19:33.05``Erikwhat're the build instructions for the gs thingymajigger?
19:35.41d-lo1)  cmake .
19:35.45d-lo2) make
19:35.58d-loQt needs to be in your PATH
19:35.58``Erikok, so I gotta figure out how to get cmake installed
19:36.01``Erikand qt
19:36.19d-loautomake is still working btw.
19:36.28d-loerr autotools build still works.
19:36.54``Erikhm, thought I ran into issues with auto*
19:47.15``Erikhrm, are you building 64b?
19:47.42d-loyes.  whats up?
19:48.06``ErikGS/tests/streamSerialTests.cxx makes some bad assumptions... "unsigned long" being 64b where it's 32 on a 32 bit system
19:48.21``Erikuint64_t might be better for that
19:48.57d-lorighto, its on the lists of things to fix.  That was an ooooooold hack that I never got around to working on yet. ;)
19:49.41d-loWell, I out.  Peace.
19:55.39CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35096 10/rt^3/trunk/src/tests/streamSerialTests.cxx: use types with explicit widths. Change 'long' to 64b int. Change magic #s to hex (should it be stdint.h INTX_MAX?).
20:10.27CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35097 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c:
20:10.29CIA-32BRL-CAD: Completly redone all functions to take human data structure, as opposed to numerous variables.
20:10.31CIA-32BRL-CAD: However, currently does not build anything, as it bus-fails when attempting to put information into
20:10.33CIA-32BRL-CAD: the human_data->torso->torsoLength location.
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20:50.25Ralithd-lo: I don't see anything particularly critical about rendering Qt *in* OpenGL.  I mean, it has nice parts and is certainly desirable, but it's quite possible to get by without it—look at the competition.
20:51.51CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35098 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c: Fixed it to where the human builds, but some parts are not in their correct locations
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20:58.53CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35099 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c:
20:58.55CIA-32BRL-CAD: Fixed everything, so now it's a human generator with all variables stored in the human_data_t struct.
20:58.58CIA-32BRL-CAD: Even works with all poses.
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22:13.25``Erik"fixed everything" hehehe, if only
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22:48.03``Eriknice, my alma mater made collegehumor.com http://www.freeverse.com/games/game/?id=7022
22:48.07``Erikwoops
22:48.36``Erikhttp://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1916488
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23:28.46``Erik*omnomnom* mm bourbon steak strips
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090714

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090714

00:10.54``Erikit was the best of times, it was the blurst of times
01:05.40``Erikthat should make pedro happy, 7.14.8 port has been submitted for fbsd
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03:51.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35100 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_cleanup.h:
03:51.27CIA-32BRL-CAD: Ah HAH. Fix the flatness test to use corner and interior points the way the old
03:51.29CIA-32BRL-CAD: setup did (even though the interior points are a bit different.) Appears to fix
03:51.31CIA-32BRL-CAD: the visual flaws from the default rt view, but the strange symmetrical dot lines
03:51.33CIA-32BRL-CAD: in the top down view (that disappear on zoom in) are still there.
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11:28.22CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r35101 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Initial commit for bivariate polynomial support
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11:59.06brlcadjdoliner: fyi, several of your defines are provided in include/vmath.h
11:59.24brlcadand should use the std math macros for min/max like other parts of the code (follow suit)
12:02.00brlcadalso, make sure you don't replicate functionality that is included in the JAMA/TNT library in src/other, includes various numeric routines (lu decomposition, eigenvectors, matrix manipulations, etc)
12:04.22jdolinerhow high level do its routines get?
12:08.18jdolinerthe types of computations that we need to do are pretty high level, I don't think we have anything right now capable of doing it
12:08.28jdolinerI guess we already knew about that
12:08.40jdolinerotherwise it wouldn't be much of a challange now would it
12:10.09jdolinerso I think at least for some of the more nuts and boltsy polynomial algorithms it would be smarter to link in another library
12:10.16jdolinerinstead of rewriting it all
12:10.53jdolinerbecause it's some pretty technical stuff
12:10.58jdolinerwhat say you?
12:12.33brlcadthe closest is probably the specialized evaluations used within the current nurbs raytracing code (which is what indianlarry was mention earlier about evaluations being highly related)
12:14.22brlcadtake a look at src/other/tnt first and see what you could leverage, there's also the option to utilize stuff in boost as we already depend on that, and then the specialized routines in src/librt/primitives/brep/* and src/librt/opennurbs_*
12:15.23brlcadthe biggest concern is keeping the entropy low in order to improve maintainability -- that means keeping depencencies low/simple but not reinventing and leveraging what's already available as much as possible
12:16.41brlcadcan't overlook simple things like sqrt(3) defines, even more important to leverage existing infrastructure for higher-level routines that don't exist
12:30.47jdolinerso it looks like there's some stuff in src/libry/primitives/brep that I can leverage for a marching implementation
12:34.37brlcadif you do, try to generalize so both codes use the same routines, not just copy and specialize, if at all possible
12:35.03brlcadotherwise it's just as bad as writing it from scratch
12:36.03jdolinerk
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12:50.23starseekerFair warning - the opennurbs_ext.* and brep* codes are in a state of rather massive flux at the moment
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13:01.46``Erik*nod* converting adrt from its own homerolled stuff to vmath was a time consuming process even with sed
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13:28.01jdolinerstarseeker: thanks I guess I'll just have to enter the fray :)
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13:39.43``Erikoh heh
13:40.48``ErikHerr Roßberg, I just responded to your version email, did I understand you correctly?
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13:43.07d_rossberg``Erik: brlcad_version.h is unfortunately not part of the installation (make install)
13:44.03``Erikhm, bu_version() in libbu isn't adequate?
13:44.11``Erik(or was it bu_ident() hrm)
13:44.32d_rossbergi.e. the information i need is of course in the BRL-CAD sources, but not in the standard installation
13:45.02d_rossbergbu_version() gives the version information on run-time but not on compile time
13:46.20``Erikwhistles innocently
13:46.21d_rossbergi.e. i want to compare the version i used to compile/link my program with the version of the BRL-CAD libraries i'm using on run-time
13:46.33CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35102 10/brlcad/trunk/include/Makefile.am: install brlcad_version.h for third party apps to use
13:47.00d_rossbergbrlcad_version.h needs the conf directory ...
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13:47.11``Erikahhh, yeahhhhhhh
13:47.52``Erikgimme a minute, need a cup of coffee, then I'll do... something...  horrible
13:50.00``Erikwhat I'm thinking probably won't groove well with msvc
13:50.07d_rossbergthis looks like a shot from the hip :|
13:50.25``Erikno, this is more bull in chinashop :D
13:50.46d_rossbergmaybe it would work with CMake
13:51.14d_rossbergi'm using CMake currently to generate my brlcadversion.h
13:52.23d_rossbergthe generation of COUNT/DATE/HOST etc works with CMake too
14:04.42``Erikeffin' pain to type with this cast, stupid broken wrist :(
14:21.15CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35103 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (Makefile.am brlcad_version.h brlcad_version.h.in): remove brlcad_version.h dependancy on conf. (still need to de-GNU the makefile a bit.)
14:23.37CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35104 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c:
14:23.39CIA-32BRL-CAD: Added functionality to the custom position stance (-s999) which takes
14:23.41CIA-32BRL-CAD: in XYZ for setting arm position in degrees.
14:28.07brlcadjdoliner: nice work commenting on the tracker item, but don't forget the other fields -- you should assign it to yourself and close it out at a minimum, could also set low priority and a category of being a compilation issue
14:29.52brlcadfor auditing purposes, your commit that fixes the bug can say the sf tracker number that it refers to (e.g., this fixes sf tracker # 1234567 reported by blah (rt crash on exit)), then can tell the user which commit that was in your closing comment so they can make sure they have the right svn revision to test the fix
14:33.13brlcadd_rossberg: that was done intentionally, whether good or bad, that the version header files aren't installed
14:33.16d_rossberg``Erik: i think i see where this will lead to ... i'll see how this can be done with CMake ...
14:34.07d_rossbergi assumed that thia was your intention
14:34.19brlcadwith the intent being that only run-time information is used with the libs since the headers could conceivably be out of sync
14:34.41brlcadmost importantly, to avoid projects that might get into a habit of relying on any defines in a bad way
14:35.13brlcad#if BRLCAD_MAJOR == 7 && BRLCAD_MINOR == 10 ... do one thing .. else do something worse
14:35.30brlcadaside from header mismatches too
14:36.15brlcadthere is the brlcad-version configuration script, that is meant to provide compile-time libs, linkage, and version information
14:36.27brlcadwe could turn that into a binary so that windows has it as well
14:37.28brlcadwhat is the exact problem that needs solving?
14:39.28``Erikdoesn't like this. :/
14:39.57d_rossbergif the libs and the headers are out of sync you are in trouble any way, or?
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14:40.28brlcadnot necessarily, we rarely ever break ABI compat on the C side
14:41.30brlcadit's happened in isolated cases before too, nothing major but then we didn't give them a means to rely on a behavior or conditionalize their code at compile-time
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14:44.02indianlarryjdoliner: Hey Joe, you around?
14:46.37CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35105 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (Makefile.am brlcad_version.h brlcad_version.h.in): revert changes with brlcad_version.h
14:48.01``Eriktries to wake up O.o
14:48.15d_rossbergbrlcad: therefore you have/had projects with different versions of run-time (libs) and interface descriptions (headers) where you want to prevent trhe user to see this difference?
14:49.06d_rossberg... because he could do something ugly with this information?
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14:50.34d_rossbergbtw, where can i find this brlcad-version script?
14:51.00``Erik$PREFIX/bin/brlcad-config
14:51.26``Erikthere're also pkg-config files (.pc) floating around
14:55.23brlcadd_rossberg: no, I don't want to accommodate a bad install -- that wasn't the point -- but I do want to try to prevent devs from using defines as compile-time conditionals
14:56.49brlcadpkg-config is a 'standard' application that uses our config descriptor files -- more portable, less custom.  brlcad-config is our project-specific version of that same interface
14:57.07brlcad"brlcad-config --version" for example
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14:57.57brlcadg'morning elena
14:58.06elenahi brlcad.
14:58.26elenado you have time for one question?
14:58.29CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35106 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (opennurbs_cleanup.cpp opennurbs_ext.cpp):
14:58.31CIA-32BRL-CAD: refactor the tolerances being used into TOL and TOL2 to make it more apparent
14:58.33CIA-32BRL-CAD: that there are two numbers being used. should test and document the effect of
14:58.34elenapossible with a long answer.
14:58.35CIA-32BRL-CAD: tightening/loosening these tolerances or make them functions if they need to be
14:58.37CIA-32BRL-CAD: dynamic based on model parameters.
14:58.42``Erikno, he has time for eleventy billion :D *duck*
14:59.09elenaif he doesn't, i'll get you ;)
14:59.29``Erikpanics and bolts
14:59.35elena:)
15:00.55``Erikassumes brlcad is not planning on getting in early enough to chuck his crevice or creviche or whatever in the fridge and join the lunch crowd? O.o
15:03.06``Erik(elena: just ask your question and lurk for best results, someone will eventually answer your question even if everyone is busy at that moment)
15:03.54elenawhen I convert from other formats to brlcad, will I get different objects?
15:04.00elenaor a single main object.
15:04.06``Erikdepends on the original format
15:04.14elenai suspect different file formats will give diferent results.
15:04.19elenaaha.
15:04.53elenanext, is there a comment somewhere, where i can find which format creates different objects?
15:04.54``Erikif sane 'region' style information can be extracted from the original source, the converters will generally try to build regions... if it's just soup, then ya get soup
15:05.12elenaaha.
15:05.21elenathanks, erik.
15:05.30elenayou're off (for now) ;)
15:05.33``Erikum, I don't believe there is a single document that gives that information? the man pages and source files are all available...
15:05.44``Erikthat might make a good wiki page
15:05.52elenai think the right expression is "off the hook"
15:06.13``Erik(who'm I kidding, EVERYTHING makes a good wiki page... I'm gonna go make a wiki page about what I'm going to have for lunch)
15:06.22d_rossbergbrlcad: i'll think about it ... tomorrow
15:06.31``Erikyes, off the hook is a common american (possibly english) expression :)
15:06.32brlcad``Erik: i already have lunch plans
15:06.34elenasend here the link.
15:06.35brlcadd_rossberg: ok
15:06.57brlcadd_rossberg: likewise.. but what is the problem situation?  or is that described in the e-mail?  
15:07.03brlcadi've not read it all just yet
15:07.17d_rossbergit should be in my e-mail
15:07.21brlcadokay
15:07.36brlcadthen no need to rehash, I'll reply if have questions
15:08.19brlcadelena: different file formats can give vastly different results, especially if it changes the format of the geometry
15:09.22brlcadat the simplest level, you can just report the geometry format -- most all formats fall into one of just a few categories of formats and operations
15:10.27brlcade.g. regardless of the format, you can say whether a given _format_ supports boolean operations or not, and whether a given model uses boolean operations
15:12.12brlcadthree really common geometry formats are implicit representation (which go hand-in-hand with booleans operations) and explicit representation (which generally don't use booleans but *can*)
15:12.52brlcader, sorry -- I said three -- there are two primary explicit formats, polygonal meshes and spline surfaces
15:13.52brlcaduploads his overview presentation
15:15.52elenawould it make sense to setup some experiments
15:15.56elenato convert from brlcad to different formats and back
15:15.58elenaor the exporter may also destroy geometry?
15:16.08elenadid you get my previous question? (i got disconnected)
15:16.32elenawould it make sense to setup some experiments to convert from brlcad to different formats and back or the exporter may also destroy geometry?
15:19.25brlcadconversions are rarely ever lossless
15:20.03elenaok. thank you.
15:20.27elenahave a great lunch (both of you)
15:20.49brlcadso setting up samples aren't really going to help -- all you can really speak to is what you have format-wise and object-wise
16:00.19CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03IRPGuardian 07http://brlcad.org * r1567 10/wiki/Cutting_and_Pasting_PIX_files: /* Cutting and Pasting Pix Files */
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16:52.58``Erik*burp*
17:21.19CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35107 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/ged.h src/libged/copy.c src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c):
17:21.21CIA-32BRL-CAD: Added ged_dbcopy to libged for copying between databases. Added go_copy to
17:21.23CIA-32BRL-CAD: libtclcad to use ged_dbcopy. The immediate need here is to have Archer use this
17:21.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: for its undo ledger instead of "get" and "put" which is potentially lossy.
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18:13.20CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35108 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Start trying to figure out the trimming code and how to integrate trim testing into the surface tree build (essential for correct bounding box generation)
18:17.27CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35109 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (49 files): Some warning cleanup. Added missing headers, fixed varargs stuff with too many or too few arguments provided. Minor type fixes. Etc.
18:32.54CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35110 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (8 files in 4 dirs): reduce warnings.
18:41.10elenastarseeker?
18:41.55elena``Erik?
18:44.04``Erikelena?
18:44.28elenadid you used starseeker's famous 1+ GB models?
18:45.09elenaor any really big database.
18:45.38elenadoes it take long to start mged with it?
18:46.02elenai have to do some scripts for mged.
18:46.26elenait would be easier to do them in separate files and start mged multiple times for each of them.
18:47.07elenabut I'm wondering if it would be more efficient to have one big script (especially for big db)
18:47.41``Erikum, the prep routine can take several minutes for large geometry
18:47.57``Erikand I'm using an 8 core 3ghz machine with 16g ram, it's no slouch
18:48.05elenaok. so it would make a big difference.
18:48.17elenathen i'll try to go with the all in one script.
18:48.19elenathank you.
18:48.24``Erikprep can be brutal... starseeker is in my office talking to indianlarry
18:48.31``ErikI can throw something at him if you'd like
18:48.45elenano. you're answer is enough.
18:48.54``Erik<-- has cans of soup, staplers, computers, etc... they'll get his attention when on ballistic trajectories
18:49.07elena:)
18:49.24``Erikunix manuals, those're nice and hefty
18:50.33elenadid you have lunch?
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18:52.47``Erikja, dol sot bi bim bop at the korean restaurant
18:53.54elenadelicious. i must have had that, too, when in seoul, but i only remember "... kim bap"
18:54.29``Eriksizzling hot cast iron bowl, rice, mixed vegetables, some beef and a poached egg
18:54.33``Erikgood stuff
18:54.49``Erikload it up with pepper paste, stir it up, ...
18:55.03elena:(
18:55.14elenathere is no korean restaurant in romania.
18:55.41elenaonly chinesse.
18:56.10``Erikunfortunate, at least you can hop the train to other nations easily to enjoy variety :)
18:56.48elenaya.
18:57.00``Erik(most the food here in the US has been so "americanized", it'd be unrecognizable to visitors)
18:57.49``Erikthere was a nice chinese place where I lived in missouri, but you had to explicitely ask for it "chinese style" to get the good stuff
18:58.27``Erikspeaking a little japanese helps a bit when I go to a teppan place, too :)
19:06.59elenais there a man page for mged commands? i need more info about tops than it's in the Introduction_to_MGED.pdf
19:07.16elenai couldn't find one.
19:10.31``Erikno, there's an internal "help" command
19:10.46elenait's not very verbose
19:11.49``Erikno, it's no... I think d-lo was developing a command guide in some wiki somewhere a while back
19:21.13CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35111 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/scripts/7.14/raytrace.txt: Fixed tops enumeration
19:21.33CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35112 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/master/dispatcher.c: redaeh gnissim dda
19:27.19CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35113 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/scripts/7.14/metadata.txt: Moved to new script output format to support multiline metadata
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19:36.29jdolinerindianlarry are you around?
19:39.58``Erikhe is pretty round, yes
19:40.10indianlarryhey joe
19:40.48indianlarryjdoliner: you mentioned having some questions?
19:42.33jdolineryes
19:43.04jdolinerI spent yesterday reading over a number of papers and following wandering down citation rabit holes
19:43.04``Erik...
19:43.34jdolinerlooking at the different implementations options
19:44.28jdoliner1 option is a purely algebraic solution
19:44.29indianlarryk
19:44.39jdolinerwhich would be really powerful
19:44.56jdolinerbut requires a lot of tricky algorithmics to get right
19:45.32jdolinerso if I took that option I think my best bet would be using some foreign abstract algebra library as a base
19:46.14jdolinerthe other option which I'm leaning toward more and more is a marching implementation
19:46.15indianlarryi thought intersections between to order 3 surfaces could lead to an order 200 intersect curve? algebraically speaking
19:46.39jdolineryeah sometimes they can
19:47.27jdolinerthe literature suggest some methods to lose a bit of accuracy to drastically reduce that number
19:48.25jdolinerbut i'm not sure exactly how good it is at this point
19:48.25indianlarrywe have definitely run into trims that have cracks due to the error
19:48.47jdolinerhowever I spoke with brlcad earlier and we both liked the idea of the marching algorithm
19:49.11indianlarrywould be nice to quantify/control the error
19:49.18``Erikthose can lead to issues with the sampling gaps
19:49.22indianlarryyea, need to control the error there as well
19:49.26``Erikthe recent metaball noise was trying to get that in check
19:50.13jdolinerin favor of that idea is that it could conceivably be made to share code with librt/primitves/brep
19:50.27indianlarrybe nice
19:50.44jdolineryeah agreed
19:50.54``Erikhoist common stuff into libbn perhaps?
19:51.17indianlarrymay need to do some pullbacks on face trims to get better results
19:51.24indianlarryin brep that is
19:52.01CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35114 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Added a -f option to libtclcad's go_copy and libged's ged_dbcopy. Modified archer to use "cp" instead of a "get" followed by a "put" or "adjust" when copying between the ledger and the database.
19:52.30indianlarryi don't have a problem if it ends up in libbn but okay to keep in librt/primitves/brep since considered work-in-progress
19:52.49indianlarryplus it's getting cleaned up as starseeker mentioned
19:52.51jdolineryeah, I'm not sure if I could abstract it out to libbn without taking some of the openNurbs with it
19:54.18indianlarrywe currently rely on the Ev functions in openNurbs
19:54.19jdolinerokay so it a marching approach seems best at this point
19:54.48indianlarryif you have any reference shoot them at me and i'll take a look
19:55.14jdolinerk I'll forward you the papers I've compiled
19:55.24indianlarrythanks joe
20:11.48``Erikdamnit, is all the creviche gone? O.o
20:12.43brlcadthere's help for mged commands on the wiki or in the mged-internal help
20:14.09``Erikhm, no sailboats in this 'bargainer', poop
20:15.08brlcadif pullbacks on face trims are needed by the solver to give better results, could make that some sort of "hinting callback" to the libbn solver routine
20:15.26brlcadso it could remain generalized, but allow customizations specific to different uses
20:16.00brlcad``Erik: pfft, jeez, yes gone :)
20:16.11brlcadyou missed the dozen people in the hallway for an hour? :)
20:16.26``Erikbastages. I'm gonna barge into your domicile next time you make some to steal a portion O.o
20:16.30``Erikyeah
20:16.36``Eriktucked back in my corner here
20:17.32brlcadi'm already craving some ceviche de corvina, have to hunt for more sea bass
20:18.08``Erikspecialty grocery store? actual zomfg fishmonger?
20:21.24``Erikdecides to hold off on the boat, trailer and truck in favor of seeing how a bicycle works out for him
20:21.58Ralithhunts some brlcad
20:23.20brlcadthere's a whole foods near my house, they tend to carry top shelf
20:37.56CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35115 10/brlcad/trunk/ (13 files in 4 dirs): initial work on a prototype ray tracing X11/OpenGL display manager (dm-rtgl)
20:39.44brlcadtis teh shizzle
20:40.29Ralithbrlcad: hey so
20:40.32Ralithgot a minute?
20:40.40brlcadnever, sup
20:41.11Ralithhow bout I backburner this whole Qt-embedded-in-OpenGL thing?
20:41.15``Erikngnngnggg stupid docbook crap
20:41.16RalithI feel like I'm getting nowhere
20:41.28Ralithand the overall goals don't strictly depend on that
20:41.30brlcadRalith: what's your alternative goal then?
20:41.37Ralithmove on with the rest of what I planned to work on
20:41.38brlcadthat's kinda the most important part of the project :)
20:41.48Ralithit is?
20:41.53RalithI didn't realise that at all
20:42.04brlcadit sets the application framework
20:42.14Ralithwas thinking I'd bring the Qt UI back to where mafm had RBGui, then extend it etc. as described in the original proposal
20:42.47RalithI'm pretty sure that that work can be easily shoved into OpenGL once that bit gets worked out
20:43.19RalithI'm not suggesting abandoning it, but I suspect that I can make just as much (generally minimal) progress on it while *also* making more visible progress in the other areas.
20:43.53brlcadnot following, you mean implement customization of the UI widgets, mimicking what rbgui is presently doing?
20:44.17RalithI don't imagine it will involve a great deal of customization of the widgets themselves per se
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20:44.40Ralithbut putting together an interface at least equivalent to the current RBGui interface, yes
20:45.37brlcadsans the opengl context?
20:46.04brlcadcan't wire up the controls without the 3d context working.. :)
20:46.07Ralithit's still easy enough to drop in an OpenGL context containing Ogre, so not exactly.
20:46.15Ralithjust sans Qt being actually rendered as OpenGL.
20:46.57Ralithwhich means less nifty but not immediately functionality-relevant stuff like transparency
20:46.58brlcadwhat about rendering a qt widget on top of an opengl widget?
20:47.04Ralithyeah, basically that
20:47.10brlcadhave you tried that?
20:47.19Raliththat's... not what we were going for, is it?
20:47.22RalithO.o
20:47.30Ralith'cuz *that* should work perfectly fine.
20:47.40brlcadthat's very much related
20:47.50RalithI can do that, easy
20:47.53Ralithshall I?
20:47.56brlcadsure
20:47.59Ralithyay :D
20:48.04CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35116 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/opennurbs_cleanup.h src/librt/opennurbs_cleanup.cpp): More trimming tweaking, start incorporating latest changes.
20:48.13brlcaddoes that work with ogre rendering into the opengl context?
20:48.18Ralithoh yeah
20:48.19brlcadif you can show that, it's progress
20:48.39RalithI got Ogre embedded in Qt to work just about first try
20:48.40brlcadeven if it's a flat qt button painted directly over the 3d context
20:48.44Raliththe trick was Qt in Ogre in Qt
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20:49.14brlcadqt in ogre in qt sounds .. way too complex
20:49.16Ralithif we're just drawing *over* the context, then, while not as cool, there's really no problem.
20:49.25Ralithbrlcad: actually, it *should* have been pretty simple.
20:49.36RalithQt has support for Qt-in-OpenGL-in-Qt out of the box
20:49.40``Erikit's qt's all the way down!
20:49.48brlcadthe issue is really whether you can override the drawing routine for a button, for example, so that you can have a button alpha-blended against the 3d
20:49.56Raliththat's what that modelviewer demo did
20:50.12Ralithbrlcad: don't think that can be done without actually rendering *into* the context
20:50.14starseekerI thought drawing over the opengl window requires that the window manager/OS cooperate
20:50.17Ralith(or a WM that composits)
20:50.38Ralithstarseeker: start up a glxgears instance, drag a term over it.  Works fine, no?
20:50.57starseekeron X, sure
20:51.02Ralithnot elsewhere?
20:51.14starseekerdunno - we're looking to work on OSX and Windows too
20:51.20brlcadmy understanding for the snippets I saw was that you'd override the Qt render method for a given widget, making it issue opengl draw commands instead of whatever it usually does
20:51.30starseekerthat was one of the things that made the OpenGL integration so promising
20:51.30brlcadeven if just to draw an alpha-blended texture
20:51.35Ralithbrlcad: oh, no, not at all
20:51.39RalithQt already *has* the code to do that
20:52.03Raliththought, perhaps it could be rewritten in a more Ogre-friendly way.
20:52.05brlcadthen what's the problem? :)
20:52.12Ralithit doesn't work when Ogre's using the context.
20:52.20Ralithfor some reason.
20:52.30brlcadthat sounds incredibly vague :)
20:52.36Ralithnow you know how I feel :|
20:52.44brlcadI'm pretty sure that's what I saw in the examples I reviewed :)
20:52.55Ralithnot the modelviewer, certainly
20:53.06brlcaddon't know that example, these were running apps
20:53.13Ralithso was that
20:53.16Ralithvery neat demo
20:53.26Ralithbig green spinny Qt logo on a blue background
20:53.34Ralithtransparent Qt dialogs overlayed
20:53.38brlcadhave you run stellarium before?
20:53.41Ralithlike I said, Qt 4.5 comes out of the box with support for rendering widgets into an OpenGL context, and doing so in a Qt window is the logical way to do it.
20:53.47Ralithhm, yeah
20:53.55RalithI keep forgetting to take a look at that.  I'll do that.
20:54.00Ralithchecks to see if he checked it out previously
20:54.23brlcadtheir approach should be nearly identical and iirc, it was a simple override
20:54.23Ralithconsidering that they've been doing it since long before 4.5
20:55.00Raliththat'll take a good bit more work than rendering *on* the widget, but I'll try for it, then.
20:55.39brlcadyou say you got ogre rendering to a qt-created opengl context, yes?
20:55.43Ralithyup
20:55.46Ralithat least, I think so.
20:55.57Raliththe background color's rendered properly and Ogre's internally consistent
20:56.01brlcadand did you try just splatting a qt button right on top of that context?
20:56.07Ralithsplatting?
20:56.15starseekerand the issue was that once Ogre DID render to that context, Qt couldn't?
20:56.21Ralithstarseeker: yes, exactly.
20:56.27Ralithon a frame-by-frame basis, no less
20:56.32brlcadone big opengl window .. put a qt window in the middle of it
20:56.34Ralithif I disabled Ogre for a frame, Qt would render happily.
20:56.40brlcadbah, s/qt window/qt button/
20:56.54Ralithbrlcad: do you mean in or out of the OpenGL context?
20:57.07brlcadneither and both
20:57.09brlcadon top of
20:57.14Ralith:|
20:57.18Raliththen you've lost me
20:57.36Ralithlogically rendered as OpenGL or not>?
20:58.46brlcadI don't care what it does on the backend, I'm talking about the end result -- one big window with ogre able to draw a 3d scene into it, and the ability to have a button in that same window (drawn on top of the 3d context)
20:59.00brlcadnot next to it
20:59.09brlcaddon't care how qt draws its button
20:59.19brlcadcan it show them both at the same time is the issue
20:59.52Raliththen we're back in easy territory
21:00.01RalithI'm pretty sure Qt can do that trivially
21:00.05Ralithbears testing, of course
21:00.09brlcadshow me :)
21:00.17Ralith'kay
21:00.31Raliththis will almost certainly *not* permit things like transparent widgets/windows
21:00.46brlcadbecause if that works, then it really should be a matter of overriding the widget's draw routine
21:00.52Ralithand may or may not give trouble if we want to display other 3D content in windows, I'm not sure what multiple GL context hw support is like
21:00.57Ralither...
21:01.01RalithI don't see how the two approaches are related.
21:01.11brlcadit's a matter of compositing
21:01.15brlcadwhether qt is doing it or not
21:01.37brlcadit has to have some minimal sort-order compositing in order to draw a button on top of a 3d context
21:01.50brlcadif it does, then we're probably good
21:02.35Ralithis confused but can write the test
21:03.04brlcadI'm thinking you're not getting what is meant by overriding the widget's draw routine ?
21:03.23brlcaddno't worry about that bit for now -- if you can show a button on an ogre context, that'll be progress
21:03.34brlcads/on/on top of/
21:04.31RalithI assume you mean overriding it such that it draws into OpenGL directly
21:05.08brlcadsure, or printf's to console, whatever you want -- that's the beauty of an override :)
21:05.36RalithI suspect I'll end up reimplementing QGraphicsView only less broken
21:06.10brlcadtry the simple demo first, then take a look at stellarium's approach (or vice versa)
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21:58.52starseekerdesperately hopes this news of the Apollo 11 tapes is the real deal
21:59.17starseekerif they post high quality digital conversions online, I know I'll be grabbing the lot of them
22:24.40CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03r_weiss * r35117 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/make_pnts.c: more cleanup, improved error checking and messages
22:26.23Ralithstarseeker: design data?
22:26.24Ralithor what?
22:27.01starseekerthe feeds you've seen of the original moon landing are apparently of lower quality than was originally recorded
22:27.35starseekerI.e., it was downgraded by pointing a video camera at a monitor
22:28.04starseekerthere are indications they have found some of the original recordings that didn't get routed through a TV camera :-)
22:28.32Ralithoo, cool
22:29.13archivistgetting the old recorders working is the fun part
22:29.23starseekerconsidering that it easily ranks as one of the greatest moments in the history of humanity, I would think getting the highest recording quality available preserved is important
22:30.47starseekerapparently for a while the non-degraded tapes were lost
22:31.00starseekerincredible, really
22:32.03archivisthttp://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.01/nasa.html?pg=2
22:32.50starseekerOf course, they wanted to use the Messel Oil Shale Pit as a trash dump, despite it containing what may be the highest quality fossils ever discovered...
22:32.55archivistI saw pics of the recorder some months ago
22:34.13``Erikhuh, richard committed without anyone harrassing him O.o (I imagine he's pissed that I mucked in his code)
22:34.21``Erikor, rather, without me harrassing him
22:35.12starseekerthis fossil still makes me stare in wonder:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Prachtkäfer_aus_der_Grube_Messel.JPG
22:38.12starseekeror this one:  http://www.paleontology.uni-bonn.de/wedmann%20english_version.htm
22:39.33starseeker50 million years, and we get to see it.  Incredible
22:48.33CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03r_weiss * r35118 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/make_pnts.c: small data type fix
22:59.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35119 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (opennurbs_cleanup.cpp primitives/brep/brep_cleanup.cpp): Inching closer to behavior of original curve tree build - still have a ways to go, probably.
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23:58.02``Erikstarts looking through IOKit docs
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090715

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090715

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00:37.23CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35120 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/opennurbs_cleanup.h src/librt/opennurbs_cleanup.cpp): More CurveTree building tweaks
00:42.17CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35121 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_cleanup.cpp: Er - don't need call to isLinear in the if condition that exists for the Linear cases...
00:54.49``Erikawesome, an accelerated emacs course:                 xslt.2:${PORTSDIR}/textproc/libxslt
00:54.52``Erikgrrr
00:55.36``Erikhttp://edward.oconnor.cx/2009/07/learn-emacs-in-ten-years
00:55.37``Erikhttp://edward.oconnor.cx/2009/07/learn-emacs-in-ten-years
00:55.54``Erikfuckin' A, my X11.app isn't talking to the system clipboard quite right anymore ://
01:47.04CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35122 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libdm/dm-rtgl.c mged/Makefile.am): fixed mged dm-rtgl bus error on exit
02:08.54starseekerhmm - still some difference in how the surface tree is being built
02:08.57starseekerarrrrgh
02:25.36CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35123 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/opennurbs_cleanup.h src/librt/opennurbs_cleanup.cpp): (log message trimmed)
02:25.39CIA-30BRL-CAD: Ah. Need to subdivide even flat nurbs surfaces in order to assign small subsets
02:25.41CIA-30BRL-CAD: of the trimming curves to small areas of the nurbs surface for evaluation
02:25.43CIA-30BRL-CAD: purposes. I wonder, would it be 'cleaner', in cases like this, to do some sort
02:25.47CIA-30BRL-CAD: of test of points against the curve tree? i.e. for a uv point, if inside the uv
02:25.49CIA-30BRL-CAD: bounds of a node, find subnodes that it is inside of, repeat until leaf node(s)
02:25.51CIA-30BRL-CAD: are found, then work on the leaf nodes? Probably more expensive for a trimming
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08:15.21Ralithwoo
08:15.27RalithQDialog says hello :D
08:15.36Ralithstill have to work out why ogre seems to be misaligned though
08:15.51Ralither, wait
08:16.01Raliththat's.... funny
08:18.05CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35124 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (6 files): "Naive" approach to the Ogre/Qt conflict: Added the test widget as a child of the OgreGLWidget. Test widget ends up as a separate window.
08:22.50Ralithmy mistake:
08:22.51Ralith01:22:59 < HuHa> Ralith: the docs explicity say: "QDialog... uses the parent widget slightly differently from other classes in Qt. A dialog is  always a top-level widget, ..."
08:25.09CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35125 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ogretest.cxx: Tested with a QPushButton which, unlike QDialog, is *not* documented as "always a top-level widget," and which allegedly should not need ->show() to become visible. No luck yet.
08:30.36CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35126 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ogretest.cxx:
08:30.38CIA-30BRL-CAD: Working pushbutton overlayed! Something about manually setting the size of the OgreGLWidget with ->resize(1024, 768); threw it off; my
08:30.41CIA-30BRL-CAD: guess is that my (tiling) wm's enforced resize produced a layout that resulted in the widget being offscreen. It may be worth testing
08:30.44CIA-30BRL-CAD: previously failed options with said resize call removed.
08:30.46Ralithbrlcad: we have success!
08:30.48Ralithof a sort.
08:31.01Ralithshould work well enough to move on, certainly
08:34.42RalithI could really do with some testing from others, btw
08:34.53RalithI want to find out whether this weird ogre misalignment is a side effect of my tiling wm or what
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08:47.56Ralithlogs with excessively nested bullet points
08:48.00CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1571 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Logs for 2008-07-12 and 2008-07-14. We now have usable Qt widget overlaying!
08:49.33Ralithbrlcad: let me know if you want me to continue to play with alternative approaches, especially considering the implications of discoveries relating to QWidget::show(), or whether I should just dive ahead into building a useful GUI.
08:52.27brlcadinsane timing, love it but have to read/respond later today :)
08:52.43Ralith'kay :)
08:52.45Ralithnight
09:02.40CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1572 10/wiki/More_Changelog: July 13-14
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10:13.36d-loMorning all!
10:14.12d-loRalith:  Grats :)
11:05.53CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35127 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/ (brlcad.module scripts/7.14/metadata.txt): Improved php-mged interface. Added feature to retrieve file list.
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11:38.50CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r35128 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bn.h src/libbn/multipoly.c): added some nuts and bolts bivariate polynomial manipulation functiuons
11:42.24CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r35129 10/rt^3/trunk/ (19 files in 17 dirs): CMake build fixes, cleanup, WS removal and style consistancy changes.
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11:48.49starseekerRalith: so this is not using the shared OpenGL context, correct?
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12:11.32CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35130 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (dg_obj.c editit.c edmater.c rt.c rtcheck.c):
12:11.35CIA-30BRL-CAD: MSVC does not provide all POSIX headers
12:11.37CIA-30BRL-CAD: handled this with the HAVE_~_H macros
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12:37.15brlcadg'morning jdoliner
12:37.44brlcadRalith: yeah, agree -- we should get a couple people to test things out
12:37.50brlcadscreenshot?
12:38.03d-lohah!  Pics or it never happened :)
12:38.34CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r35131 10/rt^3/trunk/ (78 files in 14 dirs): More WS, header and Style consistancy fixes
12:46.28brlcadd-lo: curious commit there..
12:46.42d-loHow so?
12:47.49brlcadaside from the subtle change to the standard header, dropping the file identifier, we moved away from using rcs variables a long while back because they cause hell on branching and merging (and is information contained within the vcs anyways)
12:48.54d-loSo you recommend not using svn;keywords at all?
12:50.36brlcadwithin the file, yeah, with a few exceptions (like build system files that use revision stamping)
12:51.29d-lo*confused* How else can the rcs variables be used, if not 'with in the file' ?
12:51.49brlcadthe two main issues are the technical one with it causing more grief with conflict than time-savings gain conveying information; and a social impact of tending towards territorial code if files include authorship
12:52.24brlcadwithin source files, there are other files they work well in where the conflict potential is very low
12:53.22d-loah, okay.  'Territorial code' ? is that really a problem within the brlcad dev community?
12:53.59brlcadthat's a problem with most devs, left unchecked, but even more so for 'new' devs, which is the main reason
12:54.35``Erikralith: pleased to be leaving breadcrumb trail in case anyone else picks up your "good enough" to make it "great" :D
12:54.55d-loOkay.  I honestly don't care what is in the headers, so long as its consistant file to file.
12:55.01brlcadnew developers often won't touch a file that has an author associated with it, kinda like a dog marking his territory for fear of "changing their code" instead of treating it like project code
12:55.47d-loExcept for the F I L E N A M E  at the top.  that is a pita.
12:55.56brlcadthere's a great interview with brian fitzpatrick (subversion developer, google dev, among other notabilities) and one of his cohorts on this phenomenon
12:56.12brlcadpita howso?
12:56.19brlcadshould be autogenerated
12:56.29brlcadthat's what the template script is for
12:56.49``Erikor some vim or emacs fu if you want to copy and rework a file
12:56.58``Eriktends to do it by hand, though :/
12:57.15d-logoing through and retro fitting a bunch of various stuff from a bunch of different devs.
12:58.20brlcadthere's actualy an intent legal motivation (however strong) to uniquely identify each file before the project, in order to imply it is an individual work that is part of a larger collective work
12:58.57brlcadwrite-up from the FSF and groklaw regarding that issue, iirc
12:59.34brlcadthere was a reason for each item in the template ;)
13:00.02d-loAnd thats all well and good. Still a pita ;)
13:00.23brlcadthe header.sh and footer.sh scripts can be run individually on single or groups of files to correct them
13:01.29brlcad'find' is a great command to master if you haven't already ;)
13:01.56d-loyes, but thats not the pita i am talking about
13:02.07brlcadand "perl -pi -e 'EXPRESSION' ..." or variants using sed/awk
13:03.33brlcadshould be a trivial mod to the header script to detect an existing header and 'make it conform' like footer.sh does
13:04.23brlcadforget what the current behavior is, whether to detect and abort, or detect and prepend
13:05.09brlcadthink it's a detect and abort if it finds the legal clause, otherwise prepends and treats as a comment header
13:06.08d-lokk, thanks for the heads up on the footer/header scripts.
13:08.37brlcadnot at concerned about that as the rcs vars, more because of their long term impact
13:08.49brlcadbecause they're pretty easy to fix
13:12.22d-lothe '@file' part of the header... is that a DocBook thing?
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13:14.10d-loerr, Doxygen i mean.
13:16.42d-lobrlcad:  Network guys are looking at the Switch UPS.  Anything you need me to tell them?
13:16.48``Erikbrlcad: have you looked at the swiss cheese vrml issue?
13:17.11``Erikswitch ups hasn't been an issue for us so far
13:17.28``Erikall our machines drop before the switch *shrug*
13:17.55d-loWell, 'They said 'Sean said''... maybe you can talk to them :)
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13:35.04CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r35132 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/numerics/BoundingBox.java: Added check for NaN in intersect method
13:35.50brlcad``Erik: the switch for the networking shut off really quickly on the recent outtages
13:37.07brlcadmaybe some anamoly, maybe surge, don't know -- either way it shut off faster than any of the hosts and used to stay up for nearly an hour
13:37.38brlcadand no, i've not looked at the vrml issue, but suspect it's needing to tweak tolerancing with those really small holes
13:38.26CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r35133 10/rt^3/trunk/ (164 files in 33 dirs): Standardizing headers.
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13:59.21CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35134 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_cleanup.cpp: OK, now that we're breaking down flat surfaces too, just call GetBVChildren directly.
14:02.47CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r35135 10/rt^3/trunk/src/GE/ (14 files in 3 dirs): Missed some headers. Fixed some mangling.
14:04.42CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r35136 10/rt^3/trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): refactored CommunicationsManager to AbstractPortalManager.
14:21.53CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r35137 10/rt^3/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Stubs for NetSockPortalManager (subclass of AbstractPortalManager).
14:39.41``Erikhe
14:41.11brlcadshe
14:43.31d-lowe
14:47.31archivistthey
14:47.36``Erikwoops, heh, d'no what I was typing that accidently went here O.o
14:47.41``Erik(fuckers)
14:48.26d-loplay
14:49.53CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r35138 10/jbrlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs):
14:49.56CIA-30BRL-CAD: Minor mod to RegionInfo class to handle null "region_id" attribute.
14:49.58CIA-30BRL-CAD: Added a simple test for RegionInfo.
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17:45.27CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r35139 10/rt^3/trunk/ (11 files in 4 dirs): Basic implementation of NetSockPortal and NetSockPortalManager.
18:19.02CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35140 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/opennurbs_cleanup.h src/librt/opennurbs_cleanup.cpp): Alright. Start trying to PRECISELY duplicate the curvetree building of the old code, just to have a working baseline.
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19:05.21CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35141 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c:
19:05.23CIA-30BRL-CAD: Added 2 new functions, boundingBox and boundingRectangle.
19:05.25CIA-30BRL-CAD: Bounding box makes rectangles with 1 value for width/depth, and bounding rectangle makes rectangles with 2 values, one for depth, one for width.
19:05.28CIA-30BRL-CAD: They currently make boxes using -b, but are not rotated or positioned correctly yet.
19:24.55CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35142 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_cleanup.cpp: Ah, blast it - + where a - should be.
19:27.41CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35143 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_cleanup.cpp: Few more tweaks to the curve tree build - still have some definite problems somewhere but getting closer
19:53.05CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35144 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_cleanup.cpp: Whoops, - or, not and for breakdown conditions
20:05.06CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35145 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/opennurbs_cleanup.h src/librt/opennurbs_cleanup.cpp): Put the bounding box adjustment back in the Children call.
20:28.30CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35146 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/opennurbs_cleanup.h src/librt/opennurbs_cleanup.cpp):
20:28.33CIA-30BRL-CAD: Hmm - looks like the memory demands of this approach are a bit too high - bump
20:28.35CIA-30BRL-CAD: up the BREP_SURF_SUB_FACTOR a bit, but will need to think about another approach
20:28.37CIA-30BRL-CAD: to passing values - I'm guessing the big ON_3dPoint and ON_3dVector arrays in
20:28.39CIA-30BRL-CAD: each node are to blame.
20:36.16*** part/#brlcad brlcad (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz)
20:40.03``ErikO.O
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21:45.44Ralithstarseeker: correct; it's being drawn 'on top' of the context, although still in the same top level window.  Shared context may still be perfectly feasible though; it looks like a few other calls which I only just now twiddled accidentally and/or on a hunch were unexpected dealbreakers.
21:53.16Ralithbrlcad: probably easier to build it yourself than to wait for a screenshot, but okay
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22:28.20``Erikhm
22:40.40RalithI could *really* do with someone else testing this, btw
22:41.19Ralithbrlcad: http://imgur.com/TSMHY.png
22:41.37Ralithdon't mind the outlined black box in the middle, that's from my wm
22:52.10brlcadso is the entire black area an opengl context?
22:53.02brlcadah, I see your reply to starseeker .. cool
22:53.16brlcadthen that's progress!
22:53.44brlcadgot to speak about brl-cad briefly during the FLOSS weekly podcast interview
22:53.55``Erikneat
22:54.19brlcadnot one of my best talks, by far
22:55.08brlcadkinda frustrating, ill-timed to prepare (had all of 30 minutes or so including mic checking)
22:55.29brlcadbut nice plugs in there for brl-cad and bzflag, just didn't get to say much of the cool stuff
22:55.35``Erikerm, why didn't they give ya more notice and shit?
22:55.52brlcadthere was more notice, *I* was ill-prepared
22:55.57``Eriklast minute replacement type deal?
22:55.58``Erikahhh
22:56.00``Erikhah
22:56.02``Erikyou suck :D
22:56.10brlcadtiming was conflicting to prepare
22:56.45``Erikbut now it's done and you can busy yourself migrating machines, right? :D *duck*
22:56.49brlcadotherwise, it was still just about a week's notice
22:57.37``Erikis very tempted to do some firewall fu, tweak the grant table and see if he can get the old machines websites using the new machines rdbms
22:57.40brlcadnow I need food and a nap .. all i've had today are two egg rolls and a glass of scotch
22:57.48brlcadand 3 hours sleep
22:58.03``Erikor mebbe sneak an ssh tunnel across
22:59.16``Erik*shrug*
23:00.33Ralithbrlcad: the entire black area is indeed the GL context.  I'm not sure why the dark grey area (Ogre's configured background color) is only partial; I'd like it if someone with a normal WM could build and test it.
23:01.10``Erikhow normal is a normal wm?
23:02.01``Erikif you walk me through it and promise you'll still respect me in the morning, I can try it on my macbook
23:04.57Ralithheh
23:05.00RalithI'm not sure it'd work on OSX at all
23:05.10brlcad(Ralith: tell him you will, use him, get your satisfaction, then leave him to the curb)
23:05.10Ralithlet alone how to install Ogre and Qt there
23:05.16Ralith^^
23:05.26brlcadit should work just fine there
23:05.26Ralithworth a try
23:05.40brlcadfully supported OS for both those
23:05.42RalithI'd hope so, but I'm in no position to walk someone through
23:05.47Ralithgoes googling
23:05.59brlcadsure you are, "install this, install that, compile this .. "
23:06.00``Erik!!#!~@
23:06.02Ralith``Erik: I assume you've got all the usual dev tools?
23:06.02brlcadsame you did on linux
23:06.03``ErikI have qt
23:06.08Ralith'kay
23:06.09``Erikin /opt/local/
23:06.14``Erikand yeah, a full dev stack
23:06.22Ralithgot cmake?
23:06.32``Erikuhm, don't think so, I have a DEV stack, not a wanker stack
23:06.33``Erik:D
23:06.38RalithD:
23:06.39Ralithget cmake
23:06.56``Erikyeah, updating my ports
23:07.44``Erikoh, I did install camke, my bad
23:08.36``Erikruns "cmake ."
23:09.00Ralithokay, which bits broke? :D
23:09.25Ralith(there are no sane defaults for OSX for almost any of the cmake package-finding modules)
23:09.31Ralith(though if your pkg-config is working that might not matter)
23:11.36``Erikhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d7f9a4b6
23:12.50Ralithhm, that's odd
23:13.03Raliththat's the one cmake module that I'm *not* in some way responsible for.
23:13.11``Erikhehehe
23:13.16Ralithdoes pkg-config find Qt?
23:15.33``Erikhm, my qt3 didn't seem to install the pc file
23:15.59``Erikrebuilds it
23:16.38``Erikoh, wait, no it's, there heh, qt-mt
23:17.13Ralithqt3?
23:17.13RalithO.o
23:17.23``Erikyeah, do you require 4?
23:17.47``Erik(aqbanking required qt3, ... *shrug*)
23:18.40Ralither, I'm pretty sure Qt4 is necessary, yeah
23:18.44``Erik<-- gtk weenie
23:18.55``Erikdoes it require a certain backend? I can do aqua or x11
23:19.02RalithI don't want it to
23:19.06Ralithso let's try aqua :D
23:19.16``Erikaight, installing
23:19.22Ralithty
23:19.42``Erik(source based package management, this'll take a while)
23:19.48Ralith<3 binary
23:20.14``ErikI d'no, the speed of installing isn't worth the versoin hell
23:20.29``Erikis in no hurry in his old age
23:20.53Ralithfunnily enough, last time I had version hell was on a source-based system.
23:21.28``Erikwhen I did debian systems, those went pretty well... yum/rpm based system are crap
23:21.49``Erikon fbsd, you get your choice, I always do source using portmanager
23:21.56Ralithwell sure
23:22.00Ralithrpm is crap
23:22.07Ralithbut that's different from 'binaries are crap' :P
23:23.35``Erikhrm, I know I put a debian/ in BRL-CAD, I think I was the one who put the rpm spec file in, to
23:23.46``Erikdon't really remember and svn sucks :D
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23:36.19CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35147 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (OgreGLWidget.cxx OgreGLWidget.h): Let Ogre know when the Qt window moves.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090716

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090716

00:17.40starseekerbrlcad: cool, I hadn't heard of the FLOSS weekly
00:17.52Ralithplugging is good.
00:19.26starseekeris curious if Ralith can write down his insights on what it would take to do shared context Qt/Ogre
00:19.35starseekerstill wants to do that, somehow or other
00:19.39Ralithstarseeker: did you already read the wiki entry?
00:20.30Ralithit wouldn't be hard, really
00:21.05Ralithjust take things back to when the OgreScene approach was fully implemented, and add hello->show(); after the rest of the widget test code, and remove the resize call
00:21.10Ralithfrom main
00:21.21Ralithand if that doesn't work, try the same thing on the QtRenderListener approach
00:21.35Ralithand if that doesn't work, then I guess we're doing things this as best we can right now.
00:21.41starseekernods
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01:07.48``Erik*pant* 80 pounds of empty boxes, paper bags, junkmail and newpapers prepped for recycling day
01:09.03Ralithstarseeker: you gunna take a whack at it?
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02:22.08``Erik~seen madant
02:22.09ibotmadant <i=cb7baf0f@gateway/web/freenode/x-a32eed164597bd06> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 12d 6h 15s ago, saying: 'nothing more disastrous than non-cooperative softwares ;)'.
02:22.26``Erik~seen homovulgaris
02:22.27ibothomovulgaris <n=d@117.196.131.215> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 338d 22h 29m 56s ago, saying: 'sean, on a scale of 1 to 10 how much trouble would one face when trying to make a .deb package for brlcad ?'.
02:22.37``Erikhm.
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02:32.06``Erikoscilloscope spam, wow
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04:00.35starseekerRalith: probably at some point
04:10.34Ralithcool :)
04:10.55RalithI'll try to code everything else such that it'll be easy to transition if you get it working
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08:38.29CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35148 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/multipoly.c:
08:38.30CIA-30BRL-CAD: replaced c99 idiom with c89 compatible one
08:38.32CIA-30BRL-CAD: (all declarations have to be on top of a block)
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10:14.32d-lo~seen d-lo
10:14.33ibotd-lo <n=claymore@bz.bzflag.bz> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 1s ago, saying: '~seen d-lo'.
10:14.40d-lomuwahaha
10:14.48d-lomernin all!
10:16.53``Erikyaegh
10:17.08``Erikyargh, even
10:17.11d-lowhoa.  up early or up late?
10:17.42``Erikearlyish
10:18.08``Erikbeen getting up at five something the last few weeks
10:18.51d-lonice.
11:56.16CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35149 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewweight.c: slightly more verbose logging if no density file is handy.
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12:47.48starseekerwinces as he now begins to understand some of the design considerations that may have driven the original design of opennurbs_ext
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12:49.02brlcad``Erik: you have a pine session going nuts
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13:05.09``Erikthat machine gets gimpy with locks :/ I can't even start mutt due to mail locks going wonky
13:07.30``Eriklame, sometimes we get .so.0 and sometimes .so.0.0
13:08.35brlcadneeds a -version-info 19:1 LDFLAGS in the makeifle.amd
13:10.43``Erikhrm *shrug* fbsd6 gives .so.0 and fbsd7+ gives .so.0.0 on our core libs, supposedly
13:11.12``Erikah, wait, no, not our core
13:11.15brlcadhm, doesn't sound right
13:11.17``Erikjust the step stuff
13:11.21brlcadyeah, the new libs
13:11.26``Erikhttp://people.freebsd.org/~amdmi3/brlcad-7.14.8.log
13:11.26brlcadnone of them have -version-info
13:12.53brlcadwith it, they should list better and the packing list can be fixed
13:13.39``Erikyeah, editing now
13:13.54``Erikbut I blew away my macports stuff, so I gotta get that up enough to test
13:15.43brlcadprobably shouldn't be 19:1
13:16.18brlcaddon't know what it "should" be without re-reading the libtool docs on verison-info and checking up on step's version
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15:16.20``ErikO.o http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/brlcad.org
15:18.47louipccanada wins
15:18.58louipcok not really
15:20.42starseekerbrlcad: when will they post your interview?
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16:22.00CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35150 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h: BASegment isn't serving any purpose - remove it.
16:33.38CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35151 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h: Don't use intersectedBy for a SubcurveBANode
16:44.51CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35152 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h: Add a few comments, formatting.
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17:46.18jdolinerindianlarry you around?
17:49.06CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35153 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Merge BANode and SubcurveBANode classes into one BANode class
18:00.03``Erikjabs indianlarry with a pointy stick
18:00.24indianlarryhey joe what's up
18:04.10CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35154 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h: Move CurveTree class before BVNode definitions
18:06.26jdolinerhi
18:07.20indianlarryhey joe
18:07.34jdolinerand it seems that even the numerical solutions use some algebraic stuff
18:08.57jdolinerit seems they're needed for finding basepoints
18:09.17indianlarrybasepoints?
18:09.30jdolineryeah what I mean by that
18:09.45jdolineris that if we want to march along the intersection
18:10.08jdolinerwe need a place to start that's on the intersection
18:10.11jdolinercurve
18:13.14jdolinerSo I've been looking through a couple of CAS implementations to see how they handle these sorts of things
18:14.03indianlarrywhat's in the algebra, do they subdivide into near flat pieces like the raytracing and then intersect planes for a starting point?
18:14.53indianlarrycould use bounding box to see what parts of the surface a near
18:15.01indianlarryare near
18:15.56jdolinerno they use the high level stuff like Groebner bases to solve things
18:16.48``Erik*yawn*
18:17.12CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35155 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/ (6 files in 6 dirs): chuck in some version info for installed libraries. Mimick BRL-CAD lib version (for now).
18:18.17jdolinerdescribe to me more how subdividing would work
18:20.31indianlarryfor raytracing we currently subdivide each surface (in  UV)  until it is near flat
18:22.21indianlarrya 3D bounding box is computed for each near flat surface and put into a surface tree
18:22.33jdolinerokay
18:22.52indianlarryrays are first cast against the bounding boxes
18:23.53indianlarryfor bounding boxes hit an iterative approach is used
18:24.22indianlarrytwo intersecting/perp planes are used to represent the ray
18:25.09indianlarryand an initial starting point in that sub-surfaces UV (possibly multiple start points)
18:28.49indianlarrygiven two bboxes from seperate surfaces overlap
18:29.40indianlarryuse normals of each subsurface to setup walking direction
18:30.14indianlarryadjust normals as you walk
18:33.09jdolinerokay that makes sense
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18:33.21indianlarrywalk on each surface, plane of two normals along with the plane of from surface normals and a perp plane along their average
18:33.38indianlarryjust thinkin out load
18:33.41indianlarryloud
18:34.56jdolinerso yeah if we have two surface's and a point on their intersection curve, then going iteratively from the point along the cross of the normals will keep us on the curve?
18:35.12jdolinerprovided we take small steps
18:35.32jdolinerand our geometry is "nice"
18:36.28indianlarrythat can be a problem
18:37.02indianlarryespecially with boundary trims where the UV extent is the intersection
18:37.42indianlarryyou will also need to check in/out of trim
18:38.02indianlarryunless you just start with untrimmed surfaces
18:38.06indianlarryyour call
18:38.25indianlarryi'd start with the untrimmed surfaces ;^)
18:39.39indianlarrythough wwe do have trim in/out closeness checking
18:40.06jdolinerdo you mean by "the UV extent is the intersection"
18:41.20jdolinerwhat do you mean by the above?
18:41.21jdolinerwhoops
18:43.14jdolineralso have we considered adding in some algebraic geometry functionality in brlcad?
18:45.21CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35156 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_manif.c: fix some sign issues with the paint table? maybe?
18:46.27indianlarrythe intersection between to surfaces can lie along one of the surfaces UV boundary
18:47.19indianlarrytwo
18:48.03indianlarryhave to make sure the iterator doesn't step out of UV that's all
18:48.29jdolineryeah that would be a problem
18:49.37indianlarryif your up to it try out the algebraic solution and if it looks a bit much we'll go back to iterative approach
18:51.26jdolinerk I like that idea
18:52.06jdolinergroebner bases and stuff can be really powerful
18:52.46indianlarrycool, look forward to seeing what you come up with
18:53.25jdolinerdoes this go in libbn you think?
18:54.14``Erikdang that indianlarry is a slavedriver O.o
18:55.22indianlarryup to you, if you'd like to keep it in procdb while your testing i'm okay with it
18:56.07jdolineralso a question on etiquette because I haven't really done this before
18:56.30jdolinerI'm planning to draw heavily from an opensource library called CoCoa in my implementation
18:56.39indianlarryindianlarry looks for dictionary
18:57.06``Erikjdoliner is out to confuse us mac weenies
18:57.23jdolinerI don't think we want to just include their library as external code, because a lot of it isn't going to be that useful
18:58.12jdolinerit's GPLed and all so I think this is okay
18:58.30``Erikum, we're not gpl
18:58.46``Erikwe're bsd and a little lgpl, some of our consumers cannot abide by gpl
18:58.58jdolinerI see
18:59.05``Erik(like, consumers that let us have paychecks) :)
18:59.24jdolinerah that kind of consumer I see
19:00.49jdolinerso if we just "stole" the code and put it in our project, we would need that code to be gpled or our entire project. either way it doesn't seem like we can do that
19:02.47indianlarryit's not unheard of to get special author permission but that would have to be formalized
19:03.13indianlarryprobably more trouble than worth
19:04.07jdolinerI see
19:04.46indianlarryerik pointed out that is especially hard with multiple authors as is typical in an open source gpl environment
19:04.46jdolinerk 2 questions then
19:05.01jdolineryeah that would become difficult
19:05.17jdolinerthat license would something have to be under for us not to have to worry at all
19:05.36``Erikbsd, mit, apache, ... even lgpl
19:05.58jdolinerokay then that becomes and option, also how much borrowing will we get in trouble for?
19:07.18``Erikif it's a license that permits it, as much as ya want as long as you abide
19:07.55``Erikfor a bsd style license, that just means you give credit where it's due
19:07.56indianlarrywe don't want to borrow anything we shouldn't
19:08.43``Erikbut we have code that links to and are linked to by proprietary shtuff, so we cannot snarf gpl stuff :(
19:09.34``Erik(we probably have a couple small executables that may be gpl, but the libraries and headers have to be clean)
19:10.28``Erik(billy holiday to tool, my playlist is awesome)
19:11.05jdolinerokay sounds good
19:11.18``Erikthere's a little discussion in the HACKING file about license crap
19:12.31jdolinerI guess I just have a good reference to look at for stuff
19:12.53jdolineroh well their code isn't actually such a good fit anyways :)
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19:15.10``Erikhm, gotta kinda be careful of doing that, the whole 'clean room' issue
19:15.41``Erik(I wanna be a coder, not a lawyer, waahhhhh)
19:17.50CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35157 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Merge BVNode and SubsurfaceBVNode classes into one BVNode class
19:21.14jdolinerwell along those lines, this algorithm actually doesn't look all that though. I think I can probably just do it from scratch.
19:21.54jdolinerPerhaps this is Stallman's desired effect from the LGPL
19:21.57jdolinerand GPL
19:24.12``Erikstallman is pushing a religion *shrug*
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19:56.29brlcadcheers as he gets the big endian to chatter over serial
19:56.58brlcadstarseeker: in a couple days I believe
19:57.43brlcad``Erik: heh, I saw that stats site .. most interesting is that it thinks we could make about 8 bucks a day on ads, heh
19:59.05brlcadjdoliner: if you look at CAS, you're going to find computational geometry approaches, they kinda go hand in hand but aren't the only way to approach the problem (and often suffer massively in terms of performance)
20:04.19brlcadjdoliner: and yeah, GPL code is certainly out -- we're clean-scrubbed to LGPL or better so at best you can get someone to "explain to you" a technique used in some GPL code, but the code itself cannot be used
20:05.31brlcadbut more to the point of the approach, I'd personally prefer keeping your work isolated in proc-db (could be a subdir for that matter) before injecting a bunch of computational geometry/algebra routines into libbn/librt until we know it works well, at least proof of concept
20:06.29jdolinerk I've gotten myself a nice Algebra folder setup in proc-db
20:06.36brlcadotherwise, to add directly to libbn/librt before it's known to be viable, that'd be worthy of a branch
20:06.54jdolinerdo you think Groebner bases are prohibitively inefficient
20:06.55jdoliner?
20:07.06brlcadI think they probably will be :)
20:07.18jdolinerrats
20:07.46brlcadmost of the algebra-based approaches require stable numerics, with many/most falling back to fixed- or infinite-precision numerics in order for them to work
20:08.09brlcadwhich are anywhere from two to four orders of magnitude slower than other approaches
20:08.16jdolinerthe numeric algorithms I've found still use algebra at the starting point though
20:08.28brlcadit's mostly how do you solve
20:10.26brlcadI mean you're more than welcome to give it a shot, but you should be rather cautious that it might mean you end up with squat in terms of useful code
20:10.54brlcadwe need surface surface intersections to be fast slightly more than we need them to be exact :)
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20:11.43jdolinerK
20:12.01jdolinerwell as you can see from my talk with IL
20:12.19jdolinerthe simple approach of just marching the normal's cross seems pretty viable
20:12.31jdolinerit fails in some boundary cases
20:12.59brlcadthe primary use is going to be for calculating booleans so we can go CSG+primitives -> CSG+NURBS -> untrimmed evaluated NURBS -> polygonal mesh -> triangle mesh
20:13.34jdolineroh
20:13.46jdolinerokay so if a bit of inaccuracy creeps in it might be okay
20:14.01brlcadas long as it's controlled inaccuracy, sure
20:14.13brlcadit can't end up with non-solid geometry
20:14.40jdolineryeah that's the apocalypse
20:15.22jdolinerokay well using the normal marching is pretty well setup already seeing as ON already has normal eval builtin.
20:15.26brlcadthat's an axiomatic requirement, and it has to keep the same topological structure/manifolds (if was a 3-manifold when we started, it should be a 3-manifold regardless of the transformation)
20:28.35CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35158 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Start preparing to move responsibility for Curve Tree generation and use to the Surface Tree builder, rather than calling it from brep.cpp.
20:57.51``Erikho hum
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090717

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090717

00:13.09*** join/#brlcad d-lo (n=claymore@bz.bzflag.bz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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00:35.30CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35159 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/load_g.c: some note comments
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10:40.43``Erikblahhhh
11:44.09CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35160 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: wim reports rtweight crashing on windows. unclear as to the cause but have narrowed it down and seems to be during view_init where .density file is parsed.
11:46.06*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@68.51.75.169)
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12:59.41CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35161 10/brlcad/trunk/ (BUGS NEWS src/rt/viewweight.c):
12:59.43CIA-30BRL-CAD: thanks to a report from Wim Bokkers, sf # 2822415 (rtweight crashes on Windows),
12:59.45CIA-30BRL-CAD: rtweight should no longer crash on windows or elsewhere. the problem was an
12:59.47CIA-30BRL-CAD: assumption in rtweight's view_init() that the HOME and PWD environment variables
12:59.49CIA-30BRL-CAD: are always set. When they are unset, we end up with null pointer dereferences
13:00.08CIA-30BRL-CAD: and crashing.
13:06.29*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (n=erik@ftp.brlcad.org)
13:06.50``Erikirritating.
13:07.29CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35162 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
13:07.31CIA-30BRL-CAD: make sure there aren't any other bad getenv assumptions of non-nullity in the
13:07.33CIA-30BRL-CAD: code. shold also see if there are any patters that warrant a generalized
13:07.35CIA-30BRL-CAD: interface for finding standard resource locations (home dir, current dir,
13:07.37CIA-30BRL-CAD: brlcad-bin dir, brlcad-data dir, etc)
13:14.13CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35163 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (Makefile.am doc/rise.txt rise/): omnomnom (remove old RISE stuff.)
13:16.12``Erikhas a server sitting with a screen that says "No keyboard detected. Press F1 to continue."
13:16.16``Erikstupid pc crap
13:16.52_clock_``Erik: maybe they mean Formula One?
13:18.19starseekermust say he is impressed with the lineup of projects on the FLOSS interview list
13:18.26``Erikheh, that'd be amusing, but what they actually mean is that the people who put it together are *cue censor beeping for 5 minutes of excessive vulgarity*
13:21.42louipcstarseeker: what's that list?
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14:04.42CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35164 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (5 files in 2 dirs): eliminate server side MySQL stuff.
14:10.42CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35165 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/load_g.c: remove dead code
14:21.25CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35166 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (22 files in 2 dirs): collapse all the texture_*.h headers
14:34.43CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35167 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: gut the MySQL geometry load stuff
14:45.56starseekerlouipc: OpenSolaris, Inkscape, Cinelerra, Blender, OpenMoko, Xen, Bug Labs, XBMC, Rockbox...
14:46.08starseekerand soon, BRL-CAD :-)
14:48.10``Erikurl?
14:52.36starseekerhttp://twit.tv/floss
14:52.54starseekeroh, BZFlag not BRL-CAD
14:52.59starseekermy mistake
14:53.42starseekerhttp://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pYAJMbVobYCTro_z4LGo3ZQ
14:55.39starseekerThey're trying to get OpenStreetMaps, Stellarium, WINE...
14:55.42starseekerwow
14:56.38starseekershould suggest Maxima...
14:57.43``Erikya like being laughed at that much? :D *duck*
14:57.54starseekeris used to it
14:58.01starseekerhey, I didn't suggest Axiom...
15:35.56CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35168 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Mods to support undo operations for the _GLOBAL object in Archer.
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15:37.39louipchaha bzflag is really popular eh?
16:25.47brlcadstarseeker: I did get to talk (briefly) about BRL-CAD
16:26.37brlcadlouipc: yeah, and pretty well-known
16:26.53brlcadeveryone has a warm spot in their heart for the lil tanks
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16:50.48CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35169 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/copy.c: Free color table before importing another to avoid the blather.
16:51.20CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35170 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added a few comments.
17:07.40``Erik*burp*
17:07.50brlcadmm.. hungry now
17:07.57brlcadshould get some nom nom
17:08.07``Erikdidn't know you were in until I saw your car on the way out, we hit green turtle
17:08.15brlcaddarn
17:08.40brlcadyou probably shouldn't hit turtles
17:08.59``Erikhad donatello with a side of raphael
17:09.13``Erikteenage mutant ninja hors devours
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18:30.21starseekerbrlcad: around?
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18:46.45brlcadstarseeker: yes
19:04.42CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35171 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/load_g.c: add tie calls
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19:16.34CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35172 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (Makefile.am slave/load_g.c): need to install texture_internal.h ...
19:17.25CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35173 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: don't try to set sensitivity on non-existant widgets.
19:38.59brlcad``Erik: any luck with swiss cheese?
19:39.18brlcadi just hit the same painting algorithm bug, index of 256
19:39.37brlcadnot the first time that's come up -- I documented it in BUGS a couple years ago
19:41.49starseekerWOOOO-HOOO
19:42.02CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35174 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): YES. Got the bounding box building to respect the trimming - the openbook is now centered properly in the default raytrace (not to mention the surface tree no longer has unneeded bounding boxes.)
19:43.17brlcadstarseeker: awesome hehe
20:32.03*** join/#brlcad ``Erik_ (i=erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
20:37.32*** part/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@68.51.75.169)
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20:53.22``Erikno with the swiss cheese, get bus faults here and there, got busy with other stuff
20:53.30``Erik*shrug*
21:13.52CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35175 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/brlcad.module: Changed queueing mechanism: now models get queue for BRLCAD processing only if the file changed.
21:30.34Ralith``Erik: did you ever get Qt to build?
21:46.33CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35176 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ogretest.cxx: First attempt at using a Qt Layout on top of the context. The last widget becomes the only one visible.
21:47.00``Erik_yeah, qt4
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21:48.24Ralith``Erik: okay, can cmake detect it?
21:48.30``Erikhaven't tried yet :D
21:51.34``Eriknope
21:51.43Ralithdamn.
21:51.56``Erikthey're named kinda funny, though
21:51.57Ralithobserves that removing rootWidget->show() is probably not a good way to fix the layout
21:52.11Ralithfunny?
21:52.20``Eriknot Qt4, but QtCore QtOpenGL QtGui ...
21:52.25Raliththat's normal
21:52.34Ralithat least, that's how it is on my system
21:52.43``Erikok
21:52.43Ralithif you're using standard install procedures, strictly this is a cmake bug ;x
21:52.53``Erikstraight out of macports
21:53.10``Erikhrm, they all have _debug on them
21:53.11``Erikerik@precious ~/src/rt^3$ pkg-config --cflags QtCore_debug
21:53.11``Erik-DQT_SHARED -I/opt/local/libexec/qt4-mac/include -I/opt/local/libexec/qt4-mac/include/QtCore
21:53.21Ralith...wtf?
21:53.22Raliththat's not right
21:53.29CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35177 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ogretest.cxx: Working layout! Woo!
21:54.10Ralithoh wow
21:54.13Ralithqtcreator is sexy
21:54.30``Erikqt4-mac                        @4.5.2          aqua/qt4-mac
21:54.44Ralith``Erik: sure you don't have some flags set funny?
21:54.54Ralith*that* sounds like a macports bug
21:55.34``Erikdidn't use a variant, just said "port install qt4-mac" and let it do its thing
21:55.59Ralithincidentally
21:56.12RalithI'm going to try using Qt Creator to do the UI design
21:56.25Ralithshould I be sticking its project files, etc. into version control?
21:56.31Ralithor keeping that local and only committing the generated code?
22:00.00Ralithbrlcad: maybe you're the one I should be asking ^?
22:01.28Ralith<3 the Qt docs
22:01.31Ralithvery thorough :]
22:02.36``Erikyeah, qt was the first X toolkit I was able to really get into... once I figured out how things worked, I immediately fled to gtk, though
22:02.53Ralithbuildtimes?
22:03.24``Erikand api
22:03.51Ralithah.
22:04.04``Erikand various other issues, like back then, you had to explicitely catch resize and show events and call paint in qt, gtk "just worked"
22:04.07Ralithqt4 broke backwards compatibility, though
22:04.18Ralithand seems very nice so far
22:05.01Ralithplus, benign corporate backing ftw
22:05.22Ralith``Erik: no opinion on the project file thingy?
22:05.42``ErikI d'no the qtbuilder output and rt^3 isn't my playground *shrug*
22:06.16``Erikpersonally, I tend to avoid committing generated files, but that's just me
22:06.42RalithI'll keep it out of svn unless someone says otherwise, then
22:08.28starseekerRalith: I'd commit at least the Qt Creator files
22:08.52starseekerthe question of what we want to rely on for building is definitely a brlcad question
22:09.01Ralithokay then.
22:09.28starseekerpart of that - does the code generator generate different code on a per-platform basis?
22:09.29RalithQtCreator isn't necessary, but it's a good case of something that Qt offers which could significantly simplify GUI work.
22:09.35starseekernods
22:09.39RalithI don't know, but I doubt it
22:09.51RalithQt itself is *very* "code once, build anywhere"
22:10.09Ralithone of its major attractions, imo
22:11.25Ralithoh wait!
22:11.32Raliththe progerm I was looking for is Qt Designer
22:11.38Raliththat explains why this is so IDEy
22:13.05starseekergrins
22:13.21starseekeryeah, that probably makes a difference
22:13.40Ralithit did have a very nice GUI, though.
22:15.13Ralithneeds to find a way to default to one of the more attractive Qt themes
22:30.12Ralitheugh.
22:30.18Ralithlooks like I need to make a plugin :/
22:35.28Ralithor maybe not
22:48.23Ralithokay, I've got a test window layed out in designer, and cmake's generating code from it correctly; now I need to work out how to actually *use* it.
22:49.03Ralithseems to have worked! :D
22:53.44Ralithokay, now to make the design useful.
22:53.49CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35178 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CMakeLists.txt mainwindow.ui ogretest.cxx): Moved to Qt Designer, using cmake to generate code from mainwindow.ui.
22:58.43``Erikw00t
22:59.20Raliththis is remarkably straightforward
23:02.33CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35179 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/mainwindow.ui: Got the OgreGLWidget automatically resizing, although it still has an unnecessarily huge border.
23:04.58Ralithahah!
23:08.57CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35180 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/mainwindow.ui: Killed the border.
23:10.14Ralith``Erik: so macports' Qt4 is debug-mode-only?
23:10.24Raliththat's not just your system?
23:11.57``ErikI've no idea
23:12.09CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35181 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/mainwindow.ui: Duplicated pre-designer ogretest; superimposed and laid out widgets working nicely.
23:17.04Ralithhm.
23:17.32RalithI guess I'll have to work out another way to test.
23:19.40Ralithobserves that Designer layouts end up with all widgets in the same namespace
23:29.25Ralithneeds a screenshot of the original g3d
23:30.47Ralithdesigner's pretty intuitive :)
23:34.47brlcadpics or it didn't happen!
23:35.04CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35182 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (mainwindow.ui ogretest.cxx): Beginnings of a non-functional duplication of the original G3D GUI.
23:35.11brlcadRalith: commit at least anything one of us would need to reproduce what you're doing
23:35.26Ralithbrlcad: yeah, that question got a lot less complicated when I realized I was using the wrong app :P
23:35.38RalithQt Creator is an IDE which spews out all sorts of weird project files
23:35.41brlcadjust document what those things are somewhere, the README or something
23:35.54brlcadnods
23:35.58RalithQt Designer is a UI editor which creates .ui XML files which cmake knows how to preprocess into actual code.
23:36.11Ralithso the course of action there is obvious (commit the .ui and modify CMakeLists)
23:37.14Ralithbrlcad: anyway, it's working great! I haven't got the GUI *doing* anything yet, but designer's very easy to work with, and I should be able to approximately duplicate the G3D UI as soon as I get something to refer to.
23:37.33Ralithunfortunately, I can't build old g3d here :/
23:39.22RalithI'm also very thankful for all the issues with portably managing text input, etc that I'm *not* running into thanks to the use of Qt to handle all that.
23:39.32``Erik80 pounds of paper recycling out on the curb O.o
23:39.35Ralithit's all Just Working nicely.
23:43.29Ralithquite a relief after all that pain with Ogre.
23:48.15Ralithhas a neat idea for handling console output that also handles a transparency issue that may or may not exist
23:53.10Ralithanyway, if anyone could spare the time to run and screenshot old g3d that'd be great.
23:54.07brlcadthere are screenshots on the website, http://brlcad.org/~mafm/g3d-screenshots/
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23:54.38Ralithoh, cool, thanks
23:54.40Ralithdidn't know about that
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23:58.06Ralithbrlcad: remind me what the difference was supposed to be between the always-visible console (bottom of screenshots) versus the pop-up console?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090718

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090718

00:04.25Ralithhm, I guess there are transparency issues.
00:04.27Ralithdamn.
00:06.11brlcadthe "pop-up" one isn't really a console as much as it is a interface to quick actions
00:07.54brlcadwhere the command line console is like mged's prompt where you can interact with the system, see results returned, script things out, etc; the on-demand interface is more for stateless quick commands "display object34", "help on rotations", "open http://brlcad.org", etc
00:08.19CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35183 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/mainwindow.ui: Added a text label on top of the GL context, causing garbage to appear in transparent areas, a bug almost certainly related to the underlying OpenGL context.
00:08.48brlcadfor starters, it could be a simple one-shot command interface like the console, but the long-term intent is more of a hot-key command-line
00:09.25Ralithencountered our first (and probably only) bug resulting from drawing on top of, rather than into, Ogre.
00:09.31Ralithpretty ugly one, though
00:09.43brlcadoh?
00:10.02``Erikpix? :D
00:10.16Ralithhopefully avoidable by not using anything that does partial transparency directly on top of the context.
00:10.22Ralith(in this case, a bit of antialiased text)
00:10.24Ralith``Erik: sure, sec
00:11.07``Erik(btw, weirdnesses like that tend to be platform specific... qt can help, but it ain't a silver bullet... :)
00:11.21Ralithnah this is an OpenGL issue
00:11.24Ralithnothing platformy
00:11.26``Erikum
00:11.32``Erikopengl issues tend to be platformy :D
00:11.38Ralithalthough different video hardware might indeed have different effects
00:11.46``Erikit's the ogl context going weird against the display context
00:11.46Ralith``Erik: this is an opengl issue that's inherently opengly, and which I predicted :P
00:12.00Raliththat is to say, Qt can't do anything about it when used this way
00:12.09Ralithand I doubt any platform can either
00:12.15``Erikunder the hood, it's glueing itself with glxMakeContext() or wglMakeContext() or something
00:12.17Ralithperhaps a composited WM might be a special case
00:12.18``Erikiirc
00:12.20``Erikattachcontext?
00:12.24``Erikbeen a long time
00:13.12Ralithhttp://isitloadedyet.com/~ralith/gl_weirdness.png
00:13.27brlcadRalith: you should just keep a screenshot hot-key handy, we're just going to keep saying "pics!" ;)
00:13.29``Erikeven the venerable SDL had platform specific weirdness when things like ogl were in the picture :) *shrug*
00:13.44brlcadvenerable?!
00:13.47brlcadheh
00:13.57Ralithstill, this makes me want to go back and try the QGraphicsView approach again
00:13.59``ErikHEY!
00:14.02``Erikhugs his sdl
00:14.13brlcadremember fighting SDL to no end to make it behave when we ported BZ to it, had to sort out a half-dozen bugs
00:14.26``Erikneat, when was that?
00:14.43brlcadlike five years ago or something
00:14.56``Erikwas coding ground up with sdl in '98-02, didn't try porting existing stff to it
00:17.51``Erikso, yeah, I hadn't made any progress on swiss cheese, something in the plate negatives is screwed up. indianlarry mentioned something about some of those having air codes
00:19.34Ralithooh
00:19.36Ralithrich text labelling
00:19.57Ralithfantasizes about log messages with clickable object names
00:22.54Ralithyep
00:22.59Ralithit was partial transparency that was responsible
00:23.15Ralithgiving the label a solid-fill background killed the error
00:40.53brlcadthe painting algorithm does have some bug in it
00:40.58brlcador the things that call the painting do
00:41.05brlcadbecause it is exceeding that index
00:41.26brlcadwhich shouldn't be happening, I believe that's a count of how many edges are comging together iirc
00:41.34brlcad256 is nonsense
00:42.18``Erikgiven that it's an unsigned char, 256 is a big wtf o.O
00:42.39brlcadwell, that too, but the fact that it'd count anywhere near that high
00:44.04brlcadthinks he's going to pop in Ghost in the Shell 2 here in a few minutes, party at my house
00:44.11``ErikI told russ that my guess was that it's a longstanding bug that we haven't been able to get to :/
00:44.51``Erikheh
00:45.54``Erikstacking the crap at the end of my driveway got my wrist hurtin', I'm not gonna go move it again :D I'm trapped for the night
00:46.07``Erik</whine>
00:48.41brlcad~cheese ``Erik
00:48.42ibotACTION hands ``Erik a tray of sliced sharp cheddar and pineapple
00:49.32``Erikheh
00:50.27brlcadthis week was so off-kilter that I can't even bring myself to a glass of scotch
00:50.58brlcadsips some irish whiskey instead
00:52.51``Eriksips his cranberry juice o.O
00:52.53``Eriktop THAT! HA!
00:54.38brlcaddrops doggie poop in the juice, there topped it!
00:59.33CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35184 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (5 files): Installed an intermediary MainWindow class on top of the autogenerated Ui::MainWindow to allow functionality to be attached to the GUI.
01:30.41Ralithwow
01:30.41Ralithabstracting the console out into its own widget was remarkably easy
01:30.41RalithQt was a great choice :]
01:30.41CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35185 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CMakeLists.txt Console.cxx Console.h mainwindow.ui): Made the console its own widget.
01:32.48``Erikhttp://www.collegehumor.com/video:1917186  we totally need EM trains here
01:45.15Ralithargh
01:45.24RalithI guess the GL error doesn't just manifest when you use text like that :|
01:47.15CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35186 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Console.cxx Console.h): Added autohiding of the console output label. Strangely, this seems to have caused the OpenGL error formerly assumed to be related to partial transparency to return.
01:48.01starseekerRalith: you think the QGraphicsView approach would avoid those issues if it could be made to work with Ogre?
01:48.14Ralithstarseeker: I'm just about certain it would.
01:48.29Ralithconsidering that the modelview example used 80% transparent everything.
01:52.39Ralithbrbs
02:03.03Ralithunbrbs
02:10.23starseekersobs as he sees that the "improved" Apollo 11 footage is not the original tapes'
02:10.45starseekergood to seem them preserving what they can, but ARRRRRRRRGH
02:11.12starseekersomething only possible at a large buerocracy
02:11.35starseekerreuse best quality tapes of historic human milestone to save a few bucks
02:20.02starseekeroddly fitting monument to America's reaction to space exploration post-moon-landing, though...
02:31.06starseekerdownloads the restored copies anyway...
02:40.59CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35187 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Console.cxx Console.h): Improved console output autohide: output can now be moused over, and the OpenGL error has once again dissapeared.
02:50.21CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35188 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: Removed unnecessary margin and spacing (which tended to not get redrawn, leading to uglyness) from Console's layout.
02:55.02CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35189 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/mainwindow.ui: Removed some more unnecessary margin, this time from the options bar along the top.
03:22.48CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bharder * r35190 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: reflect name change, incorporation
03:32.43Ralithbrlcad: at what point should I s/ogretest/g3d/?
03:32.56Ralithwhen I reach feature-equivalence?
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03:33.14Ralithor now, since it's no longer just a testcase?
04:07.57CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35191 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx:
04:07.59CIA-30BRL-CAD: Made Console output text selectable/copyable (and any links that might appear in
04:08.01CIA-30BRL-CAD: the future clickable). This should probably be done in any case where a user
04:08.03CIA-30BRL-CAD: might conceivably want to, for example, copy an error message into a request for
04:08.05CIA-30BRL-CAD: help or bug report.
05:27.12Ralithokay, at this point the GUI is tweaked such that the visibility of that OpenGL bug is minor
05:27.23Ralitheven though it keeps recurring
05:33.53Ralithstarseeker: something possibly of interest:
05:34.06Ralith"Qt normally erases the widget's area before the paintEvent() call. If the WRepaintNoErase widget flag is set, the widget is responsible for painting all its pixels itself."
05:34.30Ralithi.e. setting WRepaintNoErase may be a good idea
05:56.14CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35192 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/OgreGLWidget.cxx: Ensure that Ogre rendering occurs frequently (targetting 100fps).
06:50.55*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.200.176)
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08:48.08CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35193 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Improved php-mged interface (all metadata extraction and raytracing is done in a single call to mged)
08:51.23CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1573 10/wiki/More_Changelog: July 15-17
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09:35.39``Erik*yawn*
11:51.43``Eriknifty, got X back up on the 'hack' box
12:53.10*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.196.35)
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14:37.57CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35194 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/multicolumn_select/ (. multicolumn_select.info multicolumn_select.module): Multicolumn_select - custom developed module for BRLCAD (used for selecting the object to be rendered)
14:54.00CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35195 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/brlcad.module: Allow users to select which object to render.
15:42.14``Erikcompiles ogre3d on his fbsd box O.o
15:42.17CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35196 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/brlcad.module: Queue model for BRLCAD processing when the user changes the object to render.
15:43.56*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@210.212.55.3)
15:46.10CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35197 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/imagefield/ (imagefield.info imagefield.module): Allow Node ID to be used in file paths.
15:47.20CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35198 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/filefield/filefield.module: Allow Node ID to be used in file paths.
15:50.21*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-27.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
15:52.13CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35199 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtie/tie.c: avoid puking of initial triangle buffer is 0 bytes
16:05.54CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35200 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/dm-rtgl.h src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c): storing dm-rtgl points in vertex arrays to improve performance
16:22.56*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net)
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18:24.39CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r35201 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bot/ (bot.c g_bot_include.c):
18:24.44CIA-30BRL-CAD: prep method will now fail if an index for a vertex is out of range.
18:24.50CIA-30BRL-CAD: describe method now points out faces that have vertex indices out of range.
18:24.54CIA-30BRL-CAD: This fixes bug ID: 1592074 "Bot does not raytrace"
19:34.51CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1574 10/wiki/More_Changelog: July 18
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090719

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090719

00:07.15*** join/#brlcad roberthl (n=robert@rhl.me.uk)
00:45.25CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35202 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (OgreGLWidget.cxx OgreGLWidget.h): Added a slot to OgreGLWidget to set projection type (perspective or orthographic).
00:48.39CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35203 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/OgreGLWidget.cxx: Scrapped public access to OgreGLWidget's Ogre internals.
00:48.49Ralithwups
00:48.59CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35204 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/OgreGLWidget.h: Added header changes forgotten in previous commit.
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01:07.41CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35205 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (MainWindow.cxx OgreGLWidget.cxx mainwindow.ui): Attempted to hook up the camera projection mode menu to Ogre's relevant functionality. No visible effect.
01:07.58Ralithoh wait!
01:13.20Ralithyay
01:13.25Ralithnow the GUI actually does something :]
01:13.30Ralithalthough it doesn't have any visible side effects...
01:13.35CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35206 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (MainWindow.cxx OgreGLWidget.cxx OgreGLWidget.h): Working (albeit slightly hackish) projection mode configuration!
01:18.09Ralithnext is camera controls, I think.
01:18.17Raliththen I'll take another whack at seeing why Ogre is so weirdly misaligned
01:36.43CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1575 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Log for 2008-07-17
01:37.14RalithI have to say, producing visible results is quite fun.
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13:34.40``Erikyeah, that's the money shot O.o
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17:25.50*** join/#brlcad bobbens (i=bobbens@saw4ever.de)
17:26.17bobbensHas anyone compiled 7.14.8 with gcc 4.4.0?
17:26.45louipcyep
17:27.03bobbensgot it working? it fails here with http://pastebin.com/d5c694624
17:27.26louipcwell it got caught on jove, but then I just disabled jove
17:27.28louipcno need for that
17:27.42bobbensmmm, was trying to use the Arch AUR package :)
17:28.09bobbenswhat's this jove you speak of?
17:28.27bobbensactually, it does seem to --disable-jove
17:28.39louipcit's an old text editor bundled with brlcad
17:28.50louipcnotice I uploaded that PKGBUILD
17:29.01bobbensah
17:29.39louipchmm what arch are you on?
17:29.44bobbensx86_64
17:30.02louipc:(
17:30.31louipcI can't debug that heh... I'm i686
17:31.01bobbensold school :)
17:32.56louipcsomeone else had a config error too.. it didn't want to build ogl support even with --with-opengl
17:49.52louipcbobbens: hmm in my build step wasn't even configured
17:55.41louipcbobbens: I get the same error when trying to build it manually
17:59.33bobbensah, ok
17:59.40louipcHere's a description of the issue: http://blog.flameeyes.eu/2009/07/02/how-_not_-to-fix-gcc-4-4-bugs
18:00.58``Erikjove should be disabled in a normal 'configure' :/
18:03.17bobbenslouipc: mmm, blog isn't loading for me
18:03.31bobbensfunny how I say that and it loads after 3 failed attemps
18:03.37louipchaha
18:03.39bobbensmore proof that complaining on irc fixes your problems
18:04.14louipcso that needs to be patched... but it also seems something is wrong with configure
18:07.39louipc``Erik: jove is on [auto] right now...
18:07.58louipcwhich means [yes] if you don't have it eh?
18:08.14louipcwell... on 7.14.8 anyways
18:08.41louipc.. and SVN hehe
18:08.55``Erikhm, I thought it was set up to only build if configure couldn't find a "sane" editor (vi, vim, ... even emacs)
18:10.48louipcthat doesn't work very well for building packages
18:10.58louipcyou don't really know what the target system will have installed
18:11.23louipcbut everybody usually has vi :D
18:13.14``ErikI explicitely --disable-jove for the fbsd package/port
18:14.51louipcshall we disable it in brl-cad proper?
18:15.01louipcI'm all for it
18:15.35louipcfor disabling it
18:16.44``ErikI've been saying that should be done, well... for 6 years now
18:17.01``ErikI think it's on the deprecated list and will be gone for 8 or something
18:17.19louipc...
18:17.39``Erikgrab a couple car batteries, jumper cables, and visit brlcad to discuss it *shrug* :D
18:17.55louipchehe
18:18.27louipcso when 8 rolls around it'll be disabled
18:18.36louipcand then totally removed at 9?
18:20.00``Erikgone in 8 I think? *shrug*
18:42.12louipcbobbens: hmm that const char/char bug is fixed in svn you might want to try svn
18:46.43bobbenslouipc: might give it a shot tomorrow, thanks for the insight
18:47.03louipccool no problem
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20:08.20``Erik.deps retardedness. *sigh*
20:08.35louipcwho did what?
20:09.03``ErikI'm building on a box that hasn't been updated in about a year
20:09.12louipcnice
20:09.24``Erikauto* seems to get fucktarded with the .deps entries when things move
20:11.25``Eriksvn makes moving things easy, so it's done without consideration for impact... cvs required care, so much more care was put into file location and moving stuff wasn't taken so lightly :(
20:11.44``Erikif your tools make fucking up easier to recover from, you're gonna fuck up more. :(
20:11.48``Erik</rant>
20:12.08louipcmakes sense
20:12.15bobbenson svn it's not that bad since you don't keep a local copies of changes
20:12.23bobbenswith git it's insanely easy to bloat a repo with binary stuff
20:12.28bobbenshas that problem :(
20:12.52``Eriksvn keeps local copies, but it doesn't keep the "all of everything everywhere" that all distributed systems carry
20:13.04``Erikgit, darcs, mercurial, etc...
20:13.24bobbenswell with the price of memory, diskspace and such going down, decentralized version control systems will dominate I'd say
20:13.34bobbensplus it's nice not to depend on a server
20:13.42louipcyeah definitely
20:14.03bobbensif only binary diffs got up to par :P
20:14.16bobbensmaybe have some git stuff that actually does per-filetype patches or something
20:14.29``Erik*shrug* drew in #ucw/#lisp/#tech.coop is into distributed systems, but he tends to take his boat out for long periods with no intarwebz access...
20:15.14bobbenswell philosophically it's also very different
20:15.21``Erikpersonally, I don't spend more than a day without intarwebz, and can destructure my patches for committing, so even RCS is doable, CVS has some nice bennies
20:15.22louipcI'm a fan of git too
20:15.28bobbenswith svn I rarely ever work with branches since they're a pain in the ass with svn
20:15.36bobbensbut with git I'm creating/destroying/merging branches all the time
20:15.41louipcyep
20:15.55``Erikheh, the big point of svn was to make branches easy to work with :D
20:16.07louipchah
20:16.14bobbenswell compared to git... :)
20:16.19bobbensyou do git checkout -b foo
20:16.22``Erikpeople who don't... quite.. GET branches... really fail hard with CVS
20:16.25bobbensand instantly have a branch
20:16.28louipcwhy did they keep the silly  $Id tag then?
20:16.48bobbensgit merging is also very fancy
20:16.53bobbenswhen you start cherry-picking and doing funky stuff
20:17.04bobbensI'm a pretty die-hard git fanatic, so my views are slightly biased
20:17.18louipcbobbens: cool what kind of devel do you do?
20:17.53bobbensrobotics (work), game (hobby) and everything else (documents - LaTeX, $HOME, etc...) -> git
20:17.58bobbensi'm still a student though :)
20:18.14bobbensjust wanted to try out brlcad because my current UGV chassis design is epic failure
20:18.27bobbensfound out that the support foundation doesn't let the encoders fit :P
20:18.33bobbensso I might as well remake it
20:18.43bobbensproperly modelling the batteries, PCBs and such
20:19.12louipcneat
20:20.25bobbensI meant to try brlcad like 3 years ago
20:20.29bobbensbut learning curve was too harsh
20:20.40bobbensI have a wee bit of free time so I'll give it another shot :P
20:20.45louipcit hasn't changed much
20:20.53louipc:P
20:21.23louipchey and you're smarter than 3 yrs ago.. probably
20:21.30bobbensyeah
20:21.40bobbenswell I'm used to solid works though from the few CAD classes we have to take
20:21.57bobbensand I actually have a project for it :)
20:22.03bobbenslast time it was just to mess around
20:22.28bobbensbut isn't some GSoC guy adding some stuff to do work in the 3d view directly with surfaces like solid works does?
20:23.39louipcumm there's work on a new GUI
20:24.07bobbensI just need to do parametric modelling basically
20:24.28bobbenswell the only thing I can really work with is convex sheet metal
20:24.39bobbensso the design will be simple, mainly it's getting the holes and sizes right all over
21:04.49brlcadwaves hello
21:06.32bobbenshello brlcad
21:23.29brlcadlouipc: go ahead and default it to no
21:24.16brlcadthe const char * to char* conversion was fixed
21:26.02brlcadbobbens: glad to hear about the interest -- latest svn should take care of that build problem
21:26.05brlcad~cadsvn
21:26.06ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
21:27.25brlcadwe still don't provide parametric modeling, fwiw, until more infrastructure is in place on parametric and constraints support, but there is a lot of work going into the gui
21:28.42bobbensah
21:28.47bobbensthat's a bummer
21:28.58bobbensparametric modelling was the main thing I was looking forward to
21:30.55brlcadwhat do you mean when you say parametric modeling?
21:31.15brlcad(some folks mean different things unfortunately, gotta ask)
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21:31.17bobbenslike you want the chassis to be 50 by 50, and then you want a hole 10 from the edge
21:31.24bobbensthen you decide you want it to be 40 by 40 instead
21:31.29bobbensand the hole stays 10 from the edge
21:32.32brlcadokay, yeah
22:21.33bobbensmake benchmark is pretty impressive :)
22:22.48brlcadwhat's yoru vgr count?
22:23.52bobbensvgr count?
22:24.09bobbenswell I'm working on something similar to that for GSoC and SDL :)
22:31.16brlcadbobbens: there's a final number that's reported during the benchmark, that's called your vgr count
22:31.30brlcadit's a linear metric of overall computation performance, baselined
22:31.53brlcadwhich gsoc project? link?
22:31.59bobbens*vgr ghanima 5600.81    5339.51 6737.44 5472.48 4824.49 26.91   4666.94
22:32.01bobbenshadn't gotten there yet :)
22:33.00brlcad4666, not too bad
22:33.06brlcadI presume that wasn't optimized either
22:33.18bobbenshttp://socghop.appspot.com/student_project/show/google/gsoc2009/sdl/t124024854746
22:34.06brlcadah, sams your mentor, cool -- he's a great guy
22:34.15bobbensyeah, I was with SDL last year too
22:34.26bobbensonly problem is he has too much real life :)
22:34.30bobbenswhich is a good thing for him though :P
22:35.24brlcadnods
22:36.02brlcadbenchmark isn't exactly our testing suite, just one of many regression tests and a stand-alone performance measurement tool in itself
22:36.21bobbenswell I just do regressions
22:36.22bobbensnot performance
22:36.34bobbensthe problem is the cross-platformness and nature of SDL
22:36.35brlcadas ray-tracing is at the core of what we do, using raytracing for our regressions is natural
22:36.43bobbenshow does one test input and stuff in a cross-platform way? :)
22:38.42brlcadhave per-platform regression tests, then higher-level integration tests that combine results
22:39.06bobbenswell, that's the thing I'm trying to avoid
22:39.18bobbensI mean SDL runs on a lot of platforms, that would kill me :)
22:39.28bobbensmany I don't have access to
22:40.06brlcadsure, but that's not exactly a testing question
22:40.19brlcadtesting setup isn't the same as running the tests :)
22:40.43bobbenswell if I have to write platform-specific tests, I need access to those machines :)
22:41.10brlcadyou need someone with access to those machines, you only need access if you're also the tester
22:41.20bobbensI mean I'd have to write stuff for the iPhone, nintendo DS, playstastion 3, minix, ps2, etc...
22:41.30bobbenswell I'd need access to write the input tests :)
22:41.43bobbensanyway, I'll just write the crossplatform parts
22:42.06bobbensand leave the platform-specific as non-automated
22:42.12bobbensforce the user to do stuff
22:43.05brlcadmy point was that you don't personally need access, you just need someone who does that you can work with and/or that can provide the required data
22:43.29brlcadi mean it certainly could help, but it's not genuine to say it's required
22:43.33bobbenswell by personal access I meant ssh :P
22:43.49bobbenslast year I did the haptic interface for mac os x over ssh :)
22:43.54brlcadand I mean you don't even need to touch a minix system in order to write a good minix test
22:44.04bobbensit helps :)
22:44.10brlcadit *can* help
22:44.21bobbensI rarely ever write code that compiles first pass unless it's under 100 lines
22:45.50bobbensanyway, this is offtopic :)
22:45.57brlcadgiven sdl's job is already one of abstraction, it would seem logical to leverage the end-users more as an actual part of the integrated testing infrastructure
22:46.20bobbenswell ideally I would have a "make test" that would automatically test everything for regressions
22:46.39bobbenscould be run after every couple of commits
22:46.54bobbensgoes to sleep, robots don't code themselves in the morning if a bobbens doesn't wake up
22:47.03brlcadlike having high-level tests of SDL_Window, for example, and say (just for example) that if you had a make test rule, and it was run on a checkout and it failed -- the a regression reporte would be sent in to a report accumulation system
22:47.47brlcadthen cross-platform testing is leveraged across the community, or could be set up in a nightly compile farm or whatever suits
23:20.46CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r35207 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bot/bot.c:
23:20.46CIA-30BRL-CAD: "db adjust" and "db put" will now warn the user if an invalid vertex index
23:20.49CIA-30BRL-CAD: is entered for a face.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090720

00:35.03louipcbrlcad: alrighty
00:36.30CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03louipc * r35208 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: Disable jove build by default.
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01:29.21*** join/#brlcad LarsG (n=lars@nusnet-193-192.dynip.nus.edu.sg)
01:29.25*** part/#brlcad LarsG (n=lars@nusnet-193-192.dynip.nus.edu.sg)
04:20.28CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35209 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/express/Makefile.am: already had a version-info on LDFLAGS, fix autoreconf failure
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07:59.13``Erik*readreadread* sam didn't used to have too much life, but he went and got married and shit. awfully nice guy, not sure he realized I was the bastard emailing him all the time when I met him at gsoc
08:01.10``Erikhm, jra is at it on his day off again O.o
08:03.49``Erik(for automated testing, I've kinda fallen into the camp of having a basic high level pattern, then creating automated tests only when issues are discovered... tried test driven development, it burns a lot of time, more than it saves for a semicompetent developer I think
08:05.29CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35210 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bot/bot.c:
08:05.30CIA-30BRL-CAD: replaced a C99 idiom with something C89 compatible
08:05.32CIA-30BRL-CAD: (or else it won't compile with MSVC 2008)
08:27.50bobbens``Erik: well the SDL 1.3 API is "stable", the trouble is coding for all the billion platforms, so it makes more sense to have a testing suite imho
08:28.09bobbensit's long overdue and will help fix stuff imho, but we'll see :)
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10:03.38``Eriksdl is good stuff, 10  years ago, I was jabbering about the "holy trinity", opengl, openal and sdl
10:04.46``Erikrecinds his decision to avoid gsoc mentor summit, but will cede position if they're limited
10:05.04``Erikunfortunately, it's too late to decide to go to siggraph
10:23.43CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03194.44.97.14 07http://brlcad.org * r1576 10/wiki/Main_Page:
10:32.49*** join/#brlcad alfadir (n=alfadir@129.69.93.132)
10:35.24alfadireh.. found some links (http://www.bestessays.com/prices.php etc. ) on the http://brlcad.org/wiki/Main_Page at the end.. spam ?
10:36.17alfadirwas looking for progress on debian package : http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=289632#87
10:36.32alfadirbut i guess i'll just build if from source
10:36.46archivistthere are two spam links there
10:36.54alfadiryes
10:37.56alfadirwell just so you know.. i'm new to brlcad and just wanted to try it out..
10:38.10alfadirfound the links by accident ;)
10:39.33CIA-30BRL-CAD: 0381.149.119.172 07http://brlcad.org * r1577 10/wiki/Main_Page: remove spam
13:09.54indianlarryErik you still here
13:10.31indianlarry``Erik: folks here are getting an error on forge
13:11.22indianlarry``Erik: Table 'wikidb.arl_page_props' doesn't exist
13:12.30indianlarry``Erik: we did have power issues this weekend both our Macs were down
13:13.38indianlarry``Erik: forge appears to be up(starts ssh session) but i do not have an account on that machine
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14:29.30CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35211 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wcodes.c: Freeing the rt_db_internal structure.
14:33.20CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35212 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/edcodes.c: Added a -n option to edcodes. If -n is specified, instead of running the command a list of the affected objects is returned.
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15:00.11bobbens``Erik: I enjoy heavily using SDL with OpenGL and OpenAL :)
15:00.21bobbensnewest ALsoft even has some of the EFX specification implemented
15:00.29bobbensnamely reverb and echo
15:28.11brlcadbobbens: what is ALsoft, client library or end-user utility?
15:30.09brlcadgets hungry
15:37.43``Erikindianlarry: is the rdbms working? they'll probbaly just have to wait until I'm in tomorrow :/
15:38.13bobbensbrlcad: OpenAL sw implementation, the standard on linux
15:39.25brlcadah, thanks
15:39.36``Erikshould mkae sure openal still works on fbsd, got the commit bit when it was still fairly new, hasn't been doing due diligence :/
15:39.55``Erikbut at the moment, errands! *drivedrivedrive*
15:40.06brlcadwatch those curbs
15:40.09brlcadand people
15:40.11brlcadand other cars
15:43.11indianlarry``Erik: Pat was having some issues but haven't heard anything since early this morning, I'm sure it can wait
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16:22.35*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-75-169.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
17:08.39brlcadhello jdoliner
17:09.33jdolinerhiya
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17:17.07``Erikain't hit people or cars in a long long time O.o
17:18.06brlcadso you're due? :)
17:18.13``Erikit'd seem so!
17:18.50``Erikforgot the 'coupon' cc thingies for buying a dtv receiver :/ just mva and homedespot today
19:11.45CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35213 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/opennurbs_ext.h src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp):
19:11.48CIA-30BRL-CAD: OK, have a working raytrace where some parameter passing is taking place. Does
19:11.50CIA-30BRL-CAD: not produce the dramatic speedup seen elsewhere, possibly due to my replicating
19:11.52CIA-30BRL-CAD: the existing flatness test point selection rather than the 'clever' choice.
19:11.56CIA-30BRL-CAD: Since there is a slight speedup (a about 10 seconds out of a minute and a half
19:11.58CIA-30BRL-CAD: prep) I'll go ahead and commit, with an eye towards further optimization later.
19:30.36CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r35214 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (Makefile.am surfaceintersect.cpp surfaceintersect.h): initial support for surface surface intersection
19:49.58CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35215 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c: Added a new pose, the Captain (#5), and cleaned up some of the functions
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21:10.08CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35216 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/dm-rtgl.h src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c): added normal and view calculation to dm-rtgl
21:10.58CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35217 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c: Removed an unnessecary switch statement, and added help info on stances
22:04.52CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35218 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (MainWindow.cxx OgreGLWidget.cxx): Moved enforced orthographic default view to OgreGLWidget::initializeGL to ensure that it actually happens, and added handling for the case of an uninitialized camera to OgreGLWidget::setProjection.
22:13.56Ralithyay
22:14.08RalithI finally found somewhere to pull in a big chunk of mafm's code and save myself work :]
22:14.19Ralithshould be able to reuse the camera input system with almost no changes
22:25.58CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35219 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CameraMode.h: Adapted CameraMode to use Qt input types.
22:27.14mafmyay for reusing my code!
22:28.05Ralith^^
22:28.30RalithI was worried I'd have to scrap much of it because of deep integration with OIS and Mocha and such, but your camera control code is wonderfully abstracted :D
22:28.44Ralithjust have to twiddle a few types and rework the switch clauses in the individual modes
22:29.10mafmdoes it really use Mocha?
22:29.23mafmit must be the minimum to feed RBGui I gues
22:29.27mafmguess*
22:29.56Raliththat bit doesn't
22:30.02Ralithall it uses is Ogre and OIS
22:30.05Ralithand the OIS bits are cosmetic
22:32.28mafmwell, if you use Qt some things have to change, true
22:32.46mafmgood that you can reuse it, I think that it worked pretty well
22:32.50Ralithindeed
22:32.54Ralithit looks like a lot of code, too
22:32.59RalithI'd hate to have to rework all that
22:33.27mafmapart from that I think that it was you who gave suggestions about how different programs (blender etc) worked
22:35.30Ralithyup
22:35.32Ralithblender, at least.
22:35.45Ralithmafm: btw, did you ever encounter this weird offset error I'm getting?
22:35.59louipcmake it like solidworks :D
22:36.20Ralithlouipc: subclass CameraMode and implement it and I'll merge it ^^
22:36.53mafmRalith: which offset error? (I've been out all the weekend)
22:37.25CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35220 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CameraMode.h: Switched to Qt events rather than simple keycodes/button IDs.
22:38.43Ralithmafm: sec, uploading screen
22:39.35Ralithmafm: okay, here's the current state of my GUI reimpl: http://isitloadedyet.com/~ralith/offset_error.png
22:39.40Ralithsee that dark grey box in the corner?
22:39.45Raliththat's the ogre background color.
22:39.50Ralithfor some reason it's not filling up the whole context.
22:54.00CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35221 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CameraMode.h: More type adaptation to Qt.
22:59.47Ralithpokes mafm
23:00.39mafmmmm
23:01.08mafmmaybe it's taking as reference the middle of the screen instead the top left corner
23:01.40mafmor some similar difference in coordinates between ogre and qt
23:02.39CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35222 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraModeMGED.cxx CameraModeMGED.h): Converted to Qt types.
23:02.54Ralithmafm: what?
23:03.08RalithOgre doesn't have anything to do with Qt's coords
23:03.13Raliththey dont' interact at all
23:03.54mafmwell, don't you have to tell Ogre in which region of the opengl context to render?
23:09.27Ralithno
23:09.50Ralithin fact, Ogre appears to offers no mechanism by which to inform it about context position or dimensions >_>
23:12.25mafmmm, strange
23:12.38Ralithindeed
23:13.21mafmdidn't work rendering Qt inside of Ogre, instead?
23:14.15Raliththis is immensely more practical
23:14.54Ralithusing Ogre's window management stuff would mean abandoning all of Qt's handy crossplatform input/WM/etc code
23:17.28CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35223 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraModeBlender.cxx CameraModeBlender.h): Adapted types for Qt.
23:19.36mafmmaybe in Ogre forums/IRC can offer you a solution, did you try?
23:19.44mafmespecially forums
23:19.54Raliththey have been spectacularly unhelpful for everything I've gone to them with so far
23:21.45CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35224 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraModeOrbital.cxx CameraModeOrbital.h): Adapted types for Qt.
23:26.22mafm:/
23:26.40mafmmaybe Qt+Ogre is not a popular option, then
23:31.50Ralither
23:31.55Ralithagain, this has little to do with Qt
23:32.01Raliththe two don't directly communicate.
23:32.14Raliththere's actually been a lot of attempts to do this
23:32.23Ralithand the way I'm doing it is the cleanest it's been done yet
23:42.57CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35225 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: basic point culling and lighting for dm-rtgl
23:48.07Ralithrtgl?
23:52.27CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35226 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (5 files): Fixed miscellaneous accidental omissions and errors.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090721

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090721

00:16.02mafmno idea really :/
00:26.20*** join/#brlcad mdavis (n=mdavis@40.sub-75-221-82.myvzw.com)
00:26.52mdavisanyone home?
00:29.12CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03r_weiss * r35227 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/tracker.sh: updates to support latest changes to sourceforge
00:30.14Ralithmdavis: yup!
00:30.53mdavisi am struggling again
00:31.00mdavisusing the displacement map
00:31.07mdavisi am getting invalid nmg on facetize
00:31.35mdavison g-stl, i get :
00:31.37mdavisnmg_vface() face min_pt[0]:0 greater than max_pt[0]:0
00:31.41mdavismin_pt(0 0 0)  max_pt(0 0 0)
00:31.43mdavisInvalid NMG
00:31.50mdavison facetize I get invalid region_a pointer or something
00:33.14mdavisi also get infinite loop errors (and crash) when doing the same shape but at a higher resolution
00:38.05mdavisthat's a NULL region_a pointer
00:40.07brlcadhello mdavis
00:40.18mdavishey
00:40.32brlcadRalith: rtgl is a display manager interface being worked on by a summer student
00:40.48brlcada display manager (dm) is what draws the 3d view in mged/archer
00:41.08brlcadhe's making a dm that uses raytracing to render instead of just showing a wireframe
00:41.39brlcadmdavis: what version do you have?  I recall having fixed that just last weekend iirc
00:41.48Ralithbrlcad: ooh, cool!
00:41.58mdavis7.14.8
00:42.39brlcadmdavis: yeah, I'm pretty sure that's something that was very recently fixed (and it was for you if i'm not mistaken, from our last talk)
00:43.00mdaviswow..now that's service
00:43.19brlcadthere was some work-around too, but would have to draw up the history
00:43.41brlcadwhat OS are you on?
00:43.43mdavisLet me see what's on the site
00:43.51mdavisI use suse 11.1
00:43.55mdavislinux
00:44.00brlcadso then you're best bet is..
00:44.03brlcad~cadsvn
00:44.04ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
00:44.30brlcadthen, cd brlcad && sh autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-all && make && sudo make install
00:45.08mdaviswow
00:45.12mdaviscan't wait to see what happens
00:45.14brlcadyou can tweak the configure settings if you like, test releases usually have --prefix=/usr/brlcad/dev-7.14.9 as a configure option
00:45.23mdavisI've been struggling!
00:45.30mdavisthanks a lot!
00:45.42brlcadsure, let someone here know if you run into trouble
00:46.29brlcadbut that Invalid NMG problem is certainly addressed
00:46.43brlcadyeah, on th e8th
00:47.24brlcadhits the road
00:49.58CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03louipc * r35228 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/archlinux/PKGBUILD: archlinux: Add flex to depends.
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01:18.27Ralithoh shit!
01:18.32Ralithogre randomly started rendering my sphere! :D
01:18.51Ralithand the projection mode switches seem to work :D
01:19.07Ralithas do the camera controls :D
01:19.34Ralith:D:D:D
01:19.47CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35229 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (4 files): Working camera controls!
01:22.47CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35230 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/OgreGLWidget.cxx: Fixed mousewheel handling for camera control input.
01:23.12Ralithnumpad controls don't seem to work :/
01:42.56starseekerRalith: pics?
01:43.28Ralithstarseeker: there's really not much to see; you'd have more fun building it yourself (and I'd *really* like for someone to do that, for testing purposes)
01:43.36Ralithbut it's minimal effort, so okay
01:45.06Ralithmafm: I guess your camera code does some magic that make the render work as expected.
01:46.23Ralithstarseeker: http://isitloadedyet.com/~ralith/sphere.png
01:46.52Ralithalthough it would appear that something's funky with the projection mode dropdown
01:47.00Raliththe default is somehow set incorrectly
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02:11.33CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35231 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/OgreGLWidget.cxx: Got Ogre to fill the context with its background color. Clipping issues of some kind remain; the test sphere is invisible unless you pan it to the lower left, for example.
02:16.35CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35232 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/OgreGLWidget.cxx: Fixed clipping issue. Somewhat hackish; should probably patch Ogre to do this instead.
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02:24.31CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35233 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: better basic lighting performance
02:30.31CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35234 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (MainWindow.cxx OgreGLWidget.cxx mainwindow.ui): Fixed the setting of the default projection mode and connected the camera mode dropdown to the relevant logic.
02:31.40Ralithokay, only remaining serious Ogre issue is aspect ratio tends to get kinda screwed by resizes
02:31.54Ralithwhich I could /probably/ hack, but this really should be in ogre
02:45.58CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35235 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/OgreGLWidget.cxx: Replaced resize handling with a less hackish version that just calls Ogre. The aspect ratio, however, is still not correct.
02:48.00Ralithdamn, wish mafm was still here
02:56.47CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35236 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/OgreGLWidget.cxx: Fixed the aspect ratio!
02:56.55Ralithgot it :D
02:57.40brlcadkudos!
02:57.59Ralith^^
02:58.08Ralithbrlcad: it's now about 90% as functional as original g3d.
02:58.22Ralithkeyboard camera controls aren't quite working yet
02:58.25Ralithand I may have forgotten something
02:58.30Ralithbut otherwise it's all good :D
02:58.53RalithI bet I can get antialiasing to work.
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03:24.23Ralithdone! :D
03:24.34Ralithtoday was a very successful day.
03:24.44CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35237 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (OgreGLWidget.cxx OgreGLWidget.h): Scrapped a useless constructor and got antialiasing working.
03:25.39RalithI suppose that's code for you; snail's pace for weeks, then immense progress in just a few days.
03:27.21louipcyou had an epiphany?
03:28.28brlcadRalith: so what's it look like now?
03:28.33Ralithlouipc: no, I just took a slightly different approach—stopped trying to cram Ogre and Qt into the same context.
03:28.46Ralithbrlcad: sec.
03:29.17louipcyou just gotta keep pluggin at it eh?
03:30.17Ralithyup
03:30.45Ralithbrlcad: http://isitloadedyet.com/~ralith/ogre-cooperates.png
03:31.04Ralithonce again, don't mind the "Current Frame" thing in the middle, that's my WM and my screenshot app not cooperating.
03:31.14Ralithnote the antialiased edges :]
03:35.37Ralithkeyboard input weirdness remains, but that's addressable
03:36.06Ralithand there's some oddness when rotating the view around the horizontal axis, but I think that was already in mafm's code.
03:36.12Ralithand shouldn't be hard to fix, since I think I know where it is
03:37.38Ralithan extra bonus is that after a bit of polishing I should be able to submit this code back to the Ogre world and solve the apparently common desire for Ogre+Qt
03:38.09Ralithin a reliable and portable fashion, no less.
03:38.25RalithOf course, it would be much better if it could be made to render into the context properly.
03:38.39brlcadcool
03:38.48brlcadcoming along great, nice progress!
03:38.53Raliththanks ^^
04:15.46Ralithhm.
04:16.39Ralithstarseeker: I think I might have found another way to do the Qt-in-OpenGL thing
04:17.09Ralithmaybe we can get the QGraphicsView to use an overlay context on Ogre's own context
04:17.14Raliththat should keep them from conflicting
04:17.37Ralithonly issue is afaik QGraphicsView doesn't support anything that fancy, but it might not be hard to modify.
04:17.44RalithI'll try to look into it.
04:18.20Ralith(see: overlays in http://doc.trolltech.com/4.5/qglwidget.html)
04:19.14Ralithalso possibly http://doc.trolltech.com/4.5/opengl-overpainting.html
04:19.48Ralithgrabs food
05:03.14dtidrowhas anyone remarked on the streaming audio for Apollo 11 on the NASA web site?
05:03.43dtidrowwould be nice if they provide the whole thing for download sometime in the future
05:05.19Ralitha stream is a download dressed up to look silly
05:05.28Ralithjust pipe it to disk
05:06.52dtidrowdidn't know about it until this evening - they're streaming the whole mission
05:07.23dtidrowmeans I've alrealy missed half of it...
05:08.21dtidrowapparently started on Thursday, exactly 40 years after it really happened
05:37.13Ralithstarseeker: I think that last link might be the key, especially if Qt widget drawing is done on top of QPainter, or a similar close association exists.
05:37.22Ralithwhich may well be the case.
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10:15.22CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r35238 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/clstepcore/complexSupport.h:
10:15.22CIA-30BRL-CAD: re-ordered some class member initialization to quite compiler
10:15.23CIA-30BRL-CAD: warnings
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12:10.34starseekerRalith: yeah, that does look interesting.
12:10.53starseekermaybe the next thing to look at after you reach feature parity with old g3d?
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13:38.25d-lobrlcad:  you in today?
14:05.00brlcadd-lo: yep
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14:07.19d-lokk, a computer came in with your name on it.  They were looking for signatures.  
14:25.19brlcadyou bought me a computer, aw how sweet thx
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14:32.47d-loI got it because it comes with free Dell mousepads.  You can keep the computer as long as I get the mousepad.
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15:08.34CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35239 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: Parameterize the rest of the shared points. Again a small speed improvement, but the bulk of the time seems to be spent in the CurveTree code somewhere.
15:17.09CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35240 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/opennurbs_ext.h src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp): Comment out the getLeavesRight code - another speedup of about 15 sec. on openbook prep.
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17:28.11CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35241 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ (Archer.tcl ArcherCore.tcl): Update the undo methods to handle undo transactions with multiple objects. Update the edcodes wrapper to checkpoint only the objects that were modified.
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18:06.03CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35242 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Mod the clearTargetLedger method to clear the ledger.
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19:11.21``Erikssshhhhhh
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20:23.01CIA-38BRL-CAD: 0389.136.118.141 07http://brlcad.org * r1578 10/wiki/More_Changelog: July 20
20:33.21CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35243 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/draw.c: Modified ged_drawtrees to not add objects to the display list more than once.
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21:22.37CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r35244 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/surfaceintersect.cpp: method now correctly finds the points along the edge of the surface
21:33.36CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35245 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
21:33.40CIA-38BRL-CAD: Start poking at the brep.cpp code (comments, cleanup), remove a couple EvNormals
21:33.44CIA-38BRL-CAD: calls that shouldn't be needed with the pre-calculating being done. Note to
21:33.48CIA-38BRL-CAD: self - need to update isFlat comments now that different trimming points are in
21:33.50CIA-38BRL-CAD: place
21:52.50CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35246 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c: Re-added bounding boxes, which are now the correct size and orientation, but not correct location.
21:55.57starseekerhmm - malloc is killing the performance on the shape1.s test - not sure why
21:56.16starseekermakes a note to figure out what he broke there, or if it's always been doing that...
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23:24.09CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35247 10/rt^3/trunk/include/ (80 files in 14 dirs):
23:24.11CIA-38BRL-CAD: revert back to double-underscores as single underscores are in use by some libc
23:24.13CIA-38BRL-CAD: headers (e.g., bsd) and cause compilation errors if the filenames match a system
23:24.15CIA-38BRL-CAD: header (e.g., time, object, string, date, image). doubles are also reserved for
23:24.17CIA-38BRL-CAD: implementation use but far less encountered; alternative is no underscores.
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23:26.07CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35248 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/Makefile.am: fixed segfault on failed tree lookup
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090722

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090722

00:05.12starseekerRalith: Question.  IIRC, Stellarium uses overriding of the Qt drawing and has the widget draw opengl instead - would it be possible to do a similar override and have the widget output Ogre calls, (i.e. speak the same language the original in-Ogre toolkit did?)
00:15.12starseekerRalith:  I'm going to take a stab at building g3d - are there recent build instructions somewhere?
00:16.34starseekerhunts down nvidia-cg
00:21.23starseekereyes src/other/uuid as it fails to build due to missing .h file...
00:32.54Ralithstarseeker: I'm not sure how practical it is to instruct Ogre at such a low level—I think the links I mentioned last night might bear investigation before that, especially considering the possibility of them integrating cleanly with the existing Qt hold.
00:32.59Ralither
00:33.00Ralithcode
00:33.26starseekerhow do I build this sucker?  Do the INSTALL instructions still hold?
00:34.14RalithINSTALL instructions?
00:34.24Ralithold g3d is actually going to be broken now
00:34.34starseekerOK, how do I build your code?
00:34.34Ralithnew g3d is a matter of cmake . && make ogretest
00:34.43starseekerwill that build Ogre too?
00:34.47Ralithno.
00:34.55starseeker...
00:34.56Ralithyour OS should have a Ogre package
00:35.10starseekerI thought you stuck it in src other
00:35.18RalithI did
00:35.21Ralithhaven't done any buildsystem integration yet
00:35.26starseekerah
00:35.45Ralithalso, it may be advisable to simply use latest ogre trunk instead
00:35.55Ralithif you're going to be building it anyway.
00:35.58starseekerdo you need ois?
00:36.00Ralithno.
00:36.05starseekerk
00:36.05Ralithhm
00:36.11Ralithcmake won't let you go on without it though
00:36.16RalithI should probably scrap old g3d's buildsystem
00:36.21Ralithsince I've broken it anyway at this point
00:36.26Ralithlemme do that
00:36.29starseekernods
00:36.45starseekerstarts Ogre building - on this machine, that'll be hours
00:37.20Ralithalmost suggests binaries, but recalls that we depend on several tweaks not extant in the official builds
00:38.34starseekerthis is gentoo - I do source :-P
00:39.04Raliths/source/hours-long periods of impatience for every major install/
00:39.05Ralith:D
00:39.17starseekeryeah, that too
00:39.23starseekerbut, it's a good time to hit the gym
00:39.29Ralithseeya!
00:39.38Ralithwill have cmake reworked before you're back.
00:39.57starseekerdownloads the BZFlag FLOSS broadcast
00:40.18starseeker"Christopher "Sean" Morrison" for the free and open source tank game, BZFlag."
00:40.25starseekerhttp://twit.tv/floss78
00:40.31Ralithno mention of BRL-CAD?
00:41.05starseekerwe'll see :-)
00:41.15starseekerpresumably bzflag has the wider audience right now
00:41.24Ralithregrettably true.
00:43.47starseekernotes Ogre uses FreeImage - which is GPL and FIPL...
00:43.52starseekerhttp://freeimage.sourceforge.net/license.html
00:43.54starseekerhrm
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00:45.06RalithFIPL?
00:45.33Ralithif we do happen to decide to pass on ogre after all, that would certainly make the OpenGL/Qt issue easier.
00:50.31CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35249 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CMakeLists.txt main.cxx main.cxx ogretest.cxx): Retargeted build system at new G3D exclusively. Mocha, RBGUI, and OIS are no longer necessary for build.
00:57.09CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35250 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/INSTALL: Added a simple, minimal INSTALL file.
01:04.57Ralithhm, that's odd
01:05.21RalithI just checked my soc account balance for the first time, and I've got $2,005 rather than $2,500 O.o
01:09.46brlcadactually, bzflag has a very similarly sized community, code base, devs, and google counts .. but is just a lot more well known :)
01:10.21brlcadstarseeker: uuid might be my fault
01:10.43RalithBRL-CAD has a community outside of its developers?
01:10.47RalithI didn't know that >_>
01:11.34Ralithit occurs to me that, had we manpower to moderate and maintain, a web forum might help.
01:11.51brlcadthere is a web forum :)
01:11.55brlcadit just sucks
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01:12.09Raliththe sourceforge forum doesn't count :P
01:12.11brlcadthere's also a new one, but waiting for sf.net to work on data migration first
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01:12.19Ralithoh, cool
01:13.26Raliththat's odd; the 'Geometry' tracker is listed as having 3 items, but when I go to it it's shown as empty
01:14.26brlcadcheck your filters
01:14.45Ralithoh, those things are cached O.o
01:14.48Raliththat's... odd behavior
01:15.42Ralithgoes looking for someone to complain to about the money thing.
01:16.50Ralithaaand the appspot site is down.
01:27.32brlcadheh
01:27.34brlcadit's a conspiracy!
01:28.02Ralithindeed. >_>
01:29.12Ralithoh cool!
01:29.30Ralithsourceforge modified itself such that you can directly wget download links and be correctly redirected!
01:33.27CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35251 10/rt^3/trunk/include/uuid/ (uuid_vers.h uuidcpp.h): these probably belong over in src/other/uuid with the rest of their sources. revert the bad changes from r35247 that caught these in the mix.
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02:13.35brlcadstarseeker: yeah, that will be a problem down the road that we'll have to address before distributing
02:13.59brlcadfreeimage can be disabled, though -- but you have to supply an alternate image loader
02:14.20Ralithcan it use DeviL?
02:14.22brlcad--disable-freeimage --enable-openexr is probably the way to go
02:14.45Ralithrecalls openexr having issues on FreeBSD
02:15.19brlcadit already uses devil too
02:15.24brlcador can at least
02:15.55Raliththen I imagine it should be easy to swap in for freeimage
02:16.02starseekerconsiders disabling freeimage now - it's not working out of box...
02:16.10RalithI *think* DeviL is more helpfully licensed.
02:16.23starseekerbrlcad: are those arguments to cmake?
02:16.27brlcadits lgpl
02:16.37brlcadthose are ogre build options
02:16.43Ralithstarseeker: I don't think Ogre's cmake usage is stable yet
02:16.48Ralithuse ./configure etc.
02:16.54starseekeroh
02:17.20Ralithimma go work on foods.
02:17.22Ralithgood luck with ogre.
02:17.34starseekerhmm - did we not import the configure.ac file?
02:17.46Ralithpossible, though I'd be surprised
02:17.46starseekerpulls trunk
02:17.58Ralithbrlcad: I do wonder if Ogre is really worth all the trouble.
02:18.26Ralithespecially considering that its intended target—games—is not what we're doing.
02:21.43brlcadit's intended target is a render engine, no more no less -- just happens to be the gaming that is attracted to it the most
02:22.02brlcadwe'd have the same if not more problems with pretty much any of the fully featured graphics engines
02:22.32brlcadogre has the advantage of having a ton of momentum, an active community, great project leadership
02:28.12Ralithbut do we *need* a fully featured graphics engine?
02:28.44Raliththe latest-and-greatest graphical effects are generally orthogonal to the problem of modeling, imo.
02:29.07brlcadwe're not using it for effects
02:29.13louipcwe need it for the simulations in the future :D
02:29.42Ralithbrlcad: that's my point.  Ogre's goals and our requirements don't seem terribly well aligned.
02:29.44brlcadat least it's certainly not a primary benefit
02:29.58brlcadtheir goals aren't just "effects" either ..
02:30.52RalithI know, but they're certainly much more interested in e.g. support for highly realistic rendering than is necessary for our use.
02:31.06brlcadbecause they already do what we need them to do
02:31.18starseekeractually, highly realistic rendering can be nice for model visualization (e.g. product design)
02:31.20brlcadall that's left is "make it more pretty"
02:31.26brlcadyou seem to be forgetting a core feature of a graphics engine ..
02:31.33brlcadgood scene graph management
02:31.38brlcadthey have that down
02:31.46RalithI guess I'll take your word for that
02:32.15Ralithhopefully it will pay off once g3d starts displaying more than test spheres.
02:32.22starseekerit will
02:32.27brlcadit doesn't matter when you're displaying boxes and simple objects, but really starts to matter immensely with complex real-world geometries
02:33.12brlcadmged gets away with it "okay" simply because it only draws the wireframes, but even chokes out on that at times because it doesn't have scene graph management
02:33.36brlcadand makes "making it look good" nearly impossible without major restructuring (which amounts to implementing a graphics engine)
02:33.48louipchmmm
02:33.58RalithI'm also a bit put off by their emphasis on windows support, but I guess it's Good Enough on unixen.
02:35.18starseekererm.  Latest trunk checkout of ogre has neither configure.ac nor bootstrap in the top level...
02:35.27Ralith>_>
02:35.27starseekerwonders if they're moving over for real
02:35.34Ralithstarseeker: latest trunk might be.
02:35.45Ralithlast I checked was the same checkout that I committed
02:35.50Ralithcould be they've got it stable now.
02:36.04starseekerlooks for how to enable openexr and disable freeimage...
02:36.21Ralithstarseeker: ccmake .?
02:36.30starseekerah
02:36.40starseekerhasn't played with cmake in a while
02:37.29Ralithwonders how OSG compares
02:38.01Ralitheats.
02:41.25starseekerarrgh - they can disable freeimage but not enable anything else...
02:42.10starseekergives it a whirl...
02:43.59starseekerRalith: are the autotools build files in a lower directory?  http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/rt%5E3/trunk/src/other/ogre/
02:50.02brlcadnotes http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc//rpms/ogre/F-7/ogre.spec?view=markup which disables freeimage and cg because of the license
02:50.35starseekerhas to agree with cg but regrets the implications
02:52.46starseekerbrlcad: what are our usage implications without cg turned on?
02:52.46brlcadhaven't read them in detail, but don't believe cg is as much an issue
02:52.52starseekernods
02:52.53brlcadthey're more problematic for gpl codes
02:56.39Ralithstarseeker: weren't you using trunk now?
02:56.52starseekerI've tried both
02:57.00starseekerbuilding trunk now, with freeimage off
02:57.17starseekerhoping it does something sane, since I didn't see any option to explicitly enable openexr or devil
02:57.58Ralithif it got past cmake, they're either embarassingly negligent or it's taken care of.
02:59.08starseekerif the cmake system is unstable, they may not have gotten around to the second tier stuff...
02:59.43Ralithif they scrapped GBS when cmake was unstable then they're more than negligent.
03:00.20starseekerRalith: am I nuts or is there no autotools stuff in our branch?
03:00.49Raliththere appears to be no autotools stuff in our branch.
03:00.53RalithI wonder how that happened O.o
03:01.12Raliththought I recalled it still being in use there.
03:01.16Ralithguess I'm misremembering
03:01.33starseekerdoes your Qt work require FreeImage right now?
03:02.11Ralithuh, I have no idea
03:02.23RalithI certainly don't use it directly
03:02.30Ralithand I can't imagine depending on any ogre functions that depend on it
03:02.40starseekerguess we'll find out :-)
03:26.17starseekerwelllll....
03:36.00starseekergrrrrr
03:36.06starseekerit can't find any of the libraries
03:36.16Ralith-_-
03:36.29Ralithit really seems to have bad support for things which aren't the official windowsy visual studio packages
03:38.46starseekerogre built and installed, and so did g3d, but it doesn't want to run...
03:39.07Ralithyeah, g3d's install process isn't really debugged at all
03:39.09Ralithwhat error?
03:39.17starseekermanually symlinked libs into /usr/lib, but still gets ./RenderSystem_GL. System Error: ./RenderSystem_GL.so: undefined symbol: _ZN4Ogre15ResourceManager6unloadEm in DynLib::load at /home/cyapp/cadtoplevel/brlcad/ogre/OgreMain/src/OgreDynLib.cpp (line 90)
03:39.29Ralithah, that.
03:39.50RalithI guess they never fixed their cmake scripts for nonwindows.
03:40.04Ralithiirc it's that error which made me mark them off as unstable in the first place
03:40.32starseekeris there a workaround?
03:40.33Ralithstarseeker: what're the libs named, and where are they?
03:41.04Ralithare you sure you don't have an old ogre lying around?
03:41.20starseekerusual suspects - librt.so.19, libged.so.19, libbu.so.19, etc...
03:41.29starseekeryeah, pretty sure
03:41.59Ralither
03:42.01Raliththe Ogre libs, I mean
03:42.49starseekerI don't think I have an old ogre
03:42.58Ralithwhat're the libs named?
03:43.33starseekerlibOgreMain.so.1
03:44.14starseekerand we can't work with ogre-1.6.2, correct?
03:44.29Ralithcorrect.
03:44.34Ralithwhat about the libs it's trying to load? :P
03:45.25starseekerhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m24552681
03:45.46Ralithnot those ones
03:45.51Raliththe ones Ogre's trying to load at runtime
03:47.04Ralithls /usr/lib/OGRE or w/e
03:48.02starseekerIt's installed in  /usr/local/lib/OGRE/
03:48.14Ralithokay, what's the contents of that dir?
03:48.36starseekerPlugin_BSPSceneManager.so     Plugin_OctreeZone.so       RenderSystem_GL.so
03:48.36starseekerPlugin_CgProgramManager.so    Plugin_PCZSceneManager.so  cmake
03:48.36starseekerPlugin_OctreeSceneManager.so  Plugin_ParticleFX.so
04:00.16Ralithhm
04:00.18Raliththat seems about right
04:00.29Ralithidentical to my system, even.
04:00.35Ralithlemme update my Ogre and see if I don't encounter the same issue
04:35.28Ralithstarseeker: how did you disable freeimage?
04:36.01Ralithoh wait found it
04:36.46Ralithbuilds
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15:28.02CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35252 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: Tweak flatness test comment.
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20:04.39CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35253 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c: Reworked how bounding boxes are made, but are still inaccurate.
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23:10.48Ralithso what's with all these "X will be initialized after Y" warnings g++ is giving me from ctor initialization lists?  Why is that warning-worthy?
23:11.44Ralithstarseeker: also, latest ogre trunk works fine here.
23:11.53Ralithwith freeimage disabled, even.
23:11.55Ralithperhaps something went amiss in your build.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090723

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090723

00:07.51mafmRalith: it's warning worthy because you might try to use X as argument to Y, for example
00:08.16Ralithokay, how do I get it to stfu? :P
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00:26.57mafmRalith: if X is first in .h before, it should be initialized before in the constructor
00:27.12Ralithah, declaration order.
00:27.26mafmthere's probably a -Wno-something to quell it
00:31.37Ralitheh, I think -Wall is good practice.
00:32.27mafmyou can use -Wall and -Wno* after that, to omit specific warnings
00:32.51mafmespecially useful if the "fault" is on the libraries you use, not on your code
00:33.46mafm-Wall doesn't include all warnings despite the appearance, it omits some really low importance ones
00:33.54mafmsuch as unused parameters in methods
00:35.09Ralithactually, it includes that
00:35.15Ralith>_>
00:38.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35254 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Add some output options to bbsize, allow user to specify multiple objects and build the composite bounding box for all of them, add a man page
00:42.59Ralithpokes starseeker
00:43.27starseekerRalith: saw your message
00:43.31starseekerodd
00:43.43Ralithmaybe something changed between when you and I checked out trunk?
00:44.01mafmwell, then there are others, enabled with -Wextra
00:44.12starseekermore likely my box - I run gentoo unstable so there may be an argument between versions or some such
00:44.19starseekermust run - gotta get home
00:47.10Ralithseeya
00:47.16Ralith<3 gentoo
01:28.44*** join/#brlcad mike111 (n=mike@cadil21.kaist.ac.kr)
01:28.56mike111Hi all
01:31.44mike111I have a region. How do I find the area of the projection on the region on a plane, for example the x-y plane?.
01:34.39Ralithrtarea, maybe?
01:35.30Ralithmike111: yeah, I think rtarea is what you want.
01:35.37Ralith"       rtarea - Calculate exposed and presented surface areas
01:35.57mike111Hi Ralith, I can't see the command in Vol.II (MGED)
01:36.03Ralithit's not a mged command
01:36.24mike111a raytracer?
01:36.27Ralithmged is the modeler.
01:36.48Raliththings like rt are available there mostly just as a convenience measure
01:37.03Raliththere are many, many BRL-CAD tools that are completely separate programs.
01:37.06Ralithrtarea is one of them.
01:37.14mike111where is it documented? as a manpage?
01:37.28Raliththat's the docs I found, but there may be others
01:37.33RalithI always check for manpages first
01:39.20mike111Doing man area gives an `area' command in mged:  Calculates an approximate presented area of one region in the mged
01:39.20mike111<PROTECTED>
01:42.51Ralithoh, cool
01:42.54Ralithdidn't know about that
01:43.07mike111for rtarea, how do I specify which projection I want?
01:43.13Ralithdunno
01:43.25mike111I think `area' gives the surface area and not a projection.
01:43.32Ralithhang around, someone else probably knows
01:46.59mike111thanks for the rtarea tip
01:47.59Ralithnp
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02:23.19starseekerRalith: where does g3d stash its temporary files?  $HOME/.g3d?
02:23.36starseekerI'm thinking of the Ogre config stuff
02:25.48Ralith/usr/local/share/g3d right now, as bad a choice as that is
02:26.42starseekernukes
02:26.55starseekerhmm - now I get GLX backdrop image not found: Warning
02:26.55starseekerWarning: Missing charsets in String to FontSet conversion
02:26.56starseekerError: Shell widget menu has zero width and/or height
02:27.04starseekerwhen trying to pick a renderer
02:27.30Ralithuh, that may be related to no freeimage
02:27.34Ralithlemme send you my ogre.cfg
02:27.37Raliththat'll make it skip the dialog
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02:28.10starseekermay as well put it on the wiki
02:28.18starseekerother folks may want to give it a whirl
02:28.56Ralithhttp://isitloadedyet.com/~ralith/ogre.cfg
02:29.09RalithI need to modify things such that it picks a sane default instead of popping that dialog up anyway
02:29.28Ralithit'd probably break horribly if someone, say, set it to fullscreen or to use directx
02:30.14Ralithstick that in /usr/local/share/g3d
02:31.59Ralithany luck?
02:32.10starseekergrr - now it's back to
02:32.11starseekerLoading library ./RenderSystem_GL
02:32.11starseekerterminate called after throwing an instance of 'Ogre::InternalErrorException' what():  OGRE EXCEPTION(7:InternalErrorException): Could not load dynamic library ./RenderSystem_GL.  System Error: ./RenderSystem_GL.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory in DynLib::load at /home/cyapp/cadtoplevel/brlcad/ogre/OgreMain/src/OgreDynLib.cpp (line 90)
02:32.17starseekerAborted
02:32.27Ralith./?
02:32.35starseekerdunno
02:32.51Ralithis there an ogreplugins.cfg in the g3d dir?
02:33.10starseekeryes
02:33.18Ralithwhat's in it?
02:33.28starseeker# Defines plugins to load
02:33.28starseekerPluginFolder=
02:33.28starseekerPlugin=RenderSystem_GL
02:33.28starseekerPlugin=Plugin_OctreeSceneManager
02:33.28RalithPluginFolder should be set to /usr/local/lib/OGRE
02:33.30Ralithahah
02:33.32Raliththere's your problem.
02:34.29starseekergets further now
02:34.34starseekerterminate called after throwing an instance of 'Ogre::FileNotFoundException' what():  OGRE EXCEPTION(6:FileNotFoundException): Cannot locate resource sphere.mesh in resource group Autodetect or any other group. in ResourceGroupManager::openResource at /home/cyapp/cadtoplevel/brlcad/ogre/OgreMain/src/OgreResourceGroupManager.cpp (line 738)
02:35.03Raliththat's one of those 'make install not yet supported' issues.
02:35.16Ralithsphere.mesh should be somewhere in your ogre checkout
02:35.18Ralithcopy it into the g3d dir
02:37.06starseeker/usr/local/share/g3d/sphere.mesh
02:37.09starseekerright?
02:37.22Ralithyup
02:37.26starseekerstill can't find it
02:37.39Ralithis there a resources.cfg in there?
02:37.44starseekerMesh: Loading sphere.mesh.
02:37.44starseekerterminate called after throwing an instance of 'Ogre::FileNotFoundException' what():  OGRE EXCEPTION(6:FileNotFoundException): Cannot locate resource sphere.mesh in resource group Autodetect or any other group. in ResourceGroupManager::openResource at /home/cyapp/cadtoplevel/brlcad/ogre/OgreMain/src/OgreResourceGroupManager.cpp (line 738)
02:37.48Ralithit should contain:
02:37.49starseekerAborted
02:37.54Ralith[General]
02:37.54RalithFileSystem=/usr/local/share/g3d/
02:38.08starseekerhmm - it's set to RBGui
02:38.32Ralithscrap it, drop in what I pasted
02:38.40starseekeryep, bing
02:39.16starseekercool
02:39.20Ralithworks?
02:39.23starseekeryep
02:39.27Ralith:D
02:39.37starseekermight want to fix those defaults...
02:39.49Ralithyeah
02:39.51Ralithjust fixed two of them
02:40.04Raliththe plugindir thing and the resourcesdir thing
02:40.05CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35255 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CMakeLists.txt: More build system improvements; installations should be somewhat less broken now.
02:40.16Ralithwas there anything else that broke?
02:40.34starseekerdon't think so
02:40.46Ralithkk
02:40.48starseekermight add the sphere.mesh to g3d install
02:40.50Ralithoh, the config file thing
02:40.54starseekersince we need it for now
02:40.57starseekereasy to get rid of
02:42.43CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35256 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CMakeLists.txt: More build system cleanup, added autogenerate/install valid ogre.cfg.
02:43.07mike111Hi all: mged hangs when I run `area' on a simple sphere region. any ideas?
02:44.31starseekerhmm - it's busted
02:45.23starseekertoss it in here:  http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=105292&atid=640802
02:49.15mike111starseeker: is the SF link for me?
02:49.42Ralithstarseeker: okay, taken care of.
02:49.51Ralithalso switched to something prettier.
02:49.55CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35257 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CMakeLists.txt OgreGLWidget.cxx knot.mesh): Changed test mesh to something more interesting, and added installation support for it.
02:50.21Ralithin *theory* installation should be working now.
02:51.08CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35258 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/INSTALL: Updated INSTALL.
02:56.31Raliththe installation test didn't actually quite work for me, but I think that was because I have a debug version of Ogre installed?
02:57.29RalithOGRE_PLUGIN_DIR_REL was set to NOTFOUND for some reason.  Will worry about that later.
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03:04.05KhadorMechHi I'm trying to get brl running on my leopard mac and I keep getting "bus error".  Anyone know a work-around?
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03:36.04starseekerRalith: got the same thing
03:36.07starseekerNOTFOUND
03:36.15Ralithhm, weird.
03:36.34Ralithlemme try updating the cmake module
03:40.40Ralithdidn't do any good :/
03:41.02Ralithoh wel, committing anyway 'cuz presumably ogre's improved it by now
03:41.53CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35259 10/rt^3/trunk/cmake/ (FindOGRE.cmake FindPkgMacros.cmake): Updated OGRE's cmake module (and added some stuff from OGRE's impl. of FindPkgMacros) in the hopes of improving reliability across platforms.
03:51.53Ralithstrictly this is an OGRE-side bug
03:52.16Ralithsince it's their cmake module that's failing to find the stuff installed by their build system.
05:26.26mike111I'm trying to run rtarea from the commandline using mged -c new.g "Z;E s1.r;top;rtarea"
05:27.16mike111but getting: bu_log: write error
05:50.28Ralithwonders why he didn't just try running rtarea itself
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12:11.40brlcadRalith: c++ initializes in the order declared, so when your initialization list doesn't match, it warns since you might be making some assumption about the order you listed
12:11.58brlcaddoesn't matter for simple types, but especially if they're objects, you can get into bad juju
12:13.06brlcadthe 'area' command gives projected/presented area, but just a rough approximation -- rtarea is the tool to use
12:16.08``Eriktotally awesome, I've gotten, like, NO mail at bz, but this morning, I get spam there. yayyyy
12:16.25brlcadhe gets the bu_log write error because rtarea is async and mged terminates before rtarea finishes, yet it can't display the results because mged is gone
12:18.06``Erikpersonally thinks that mged -c needs some significant attention... fixing async issues, choosing appropriate streams, etc
12:19.02``Erikor; mged as a pipe tool needs attention, rather
12:53.13``Erikthe rotate issues I've been seeing on osX.5 are not choppiness, they seem to be that it's reading a mouse down and up and doing a zoom instead of seeing a mouse down and move to rotate
12:53.20``Erikum, it zooms on mouse down
12:53.37``ErikI imagine tk and apple X11.app are not playing nice
12:54.04``Erik(this is on a macbook from november)
13:00.24brlcad``Erik: my quick lookings seemed that it was some initialization problem on mged/libged's part
13:00.53brlcadas it works just fine when you first e an object, you can spin it around freely ... then once you zoom in/out, it's hosed
13:01.21``Erikok, what I was seeing, I think is related, so I'm sharing what little info I have so the people who will fix it are prepared
13:01.42brlcadthinks ``Erik is prepared to fix it ;)
13:03.43``Erikfuck that shit, I called in sick today (stomach is bugging me)
13:04.25``Erikfelt awful green yesterday, went to a party on tuesday and wasn't used to the drinking and being around cigarettes and stuff
13:04.35``ErikI got old. *sob*
13:05.02d-loGot used to no poison and cleaner air eh? :)
13:05.25``Erikwell, different pollutions
13:06.37``Erikd-lo, if you see the slavedriver or her minion, I wasn't able to get either by phone, nor the mathematicion. I left a VM for the boss, but a "hey, didja check your vmail?" shout would make me feel better?
13:07.05d-lorighto.
13:07.09``Erikdanke
13:08.20``Erikiokit is a wreck :/
13:08.48``Erikwants to write a little program with a similar interface to batch that throw sigstop and sigcont signals based on cpu temp and/or fan speed
13:09.17``Erikkeep my lappy from smoking up during a rebuild of BRL-CAD :D without burning my knees
13:11.29``Erikhas to figure out http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d7958bdd before he can even look at mouse events
13:12.40``Erik(interesting, I put my name in as "``Erik" in the pastebin, and it reads it as "Erik".... wonder what happens if my name is "`rm -rf /`" O.o
13:14.49``Erik(and, uh, it has a spam problem now.)
13:15.57d-lowhy are tyou trying to break the pastebin?
13:17.09``Erikbecause if I break it, then we know it's breakable and we can fix it. If someone else breaks it, it's a bad day
13:17.46``Erikspent too much time as a sysadmin, thinks that's why he was pushed towards the "test developer" roll on "that project"
13:17.55``Erikrole
13:18.15d-loSure.  Right.  I know you.  Its pure Malice isn't it?
13:19.12``Erikhey, man, at least I'm not so deviant that I'm cracking secured encyption keys and hijacking data streams for man-in-the-middle attacks on commercial proprietary software
13:19.15``Erik:D
13:20.15``Erik<-- stickin' to the clasic ethos, just had a "hm, thats... interesting" moment, that's it :)
13:20.40d-loriiiiiight.
13:20.51d-loand its not commercial anymore :)
13:22.38``Erikyou'll either have to find a group of artists willing to commit and obey a common vision (EXTREMELY difficult if you don't have $'s), or run the risk of being a rogue bandit skirting the grey areas of the law :(
13:23.31``Erik<-- used and was mortified by the whole bnetd situation, is gunshy
13:24.16``Erikand the history of strategus...
13:32.42brlcadthinks he meant http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d7958fbdd
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13:52.25ornitorrincosho louipc
13:52.48``Erikno, opengl support is not going to give you shaded displays or anything that X won't do.. and generally X will do it better
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13:53.19``Erikoh crap, they're ALL coming here O.o :D *duck*
13:53.28pro-rsoftHehe
13:53.38``Erik(srry, been pimping)
13:54.53``Erikso, yeah, not detecting opengl is not all that bad of a thing, we can figure out how to make it work, but it's not a show stopper
13:55.30ornitorrincosjust curious if it was normal or I had something broken
13:55.51``Erikum, if you're using linux, it SHOULD be detected
13:56.07``Erikdo you have the mesa dev stuff on?
13:56.14ornitorrincosthen I probably have something broken
13:56.17``ErikGL.h GLU.h etc?
13:56.40pro-rsoftyou mean GL/gl.h
13:56.49``Eriker, yeah, it's been a while
13:57.09``Erikwe had ogl support back to when it was irisgl and a propritary sgi thang
13:57.23``Erikproprietary
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13:57.47brlcadmornin' elena
13:57.54elenahi.
13:58.04elenahow are you?
13:58.09brlcadgreat!
13:58.17elenaI was hopping to catch one of you around.
13:58.30``Erikis a square, sorry
13:58.30elenai'm working on conversion.
13:58.31brlcadbusy day and slow start to it at that, but starting to get the juices flowing
13:59.03elena:)
13:59.06ornitorrincos``Erik, yes those headrs I ahve them, checked with louipc
13:59.43elenaare then any particular formats we want to support more than others.
13:59.45elena?
14:00.09``Erikok, our ogl check starts on configure.ac:1364
14:00.48``Eriklooking for libGL.so libGL2.so and libGL.dylib
14:01.18brlcadelena: yeah, .g :)
14:01.23``Erikwith minor hackery around the mac tardedness
14:02.04elenaok. but from what to g?
14:02.12elenadxf for example?
14:02.32brlcadfollowed by the more complex formats, namely iges and dxf for starters
14:02.41elenaok.
14:02.42elenathanks.
14:02.46``Erikare you looking for a prioritized list of import formats?
14:02.54elenayes.
14:02.57brlcadif you want, you could just support anything we have a g-* for
14:03.18``Erik*-g you mean
14:03.22elenai did a list for that.
14:03.23brlcadright
14:03.24elenayes.
14:03.40elenabut for now, only with *-g and g-*
14:03.50elenabecause i need sample files to test.
14:04.07``Erikbut I don't think we have any document saying that "yes, we have alpha-g and beta-g, but if you have both, we'd prefer beta-g to carry geometry better"
14:04.11elenaand I get those samples by converting from g to that format (offline)
14:04.39ornitorrincoslibGL.so is present
14:05.02``Erikum, I made a csv in src/conv/ a while back, but it's not sorted... might be nice if someone sorted it by preference?
14:05.28``Erikorn: can you paste the ogl fail to a pastebin? we have pastebin.bzflag.bz :)
14:09.47brlcadelena: you can also find samples of most formats pretty easily by using google with the file-type keyword
14:09.58elenaACAD and EUCLID don't have a specific file extension?
14:10.07ornitorrincosumn
14:10.12elenai know about filetype:pdf, doc and stuff.
14:10.12ornitorrincosok, who has telekinesis
14:10.25louipcheheh
14:10.25brlcadyea, like "filetype:dxf sample"
14:10.36elenadxf is simple.
14:10.42elenahow about euclid?
14:11.08ornitorrincoslouipc, now the damn opengl works
14:11.11brlcadlesse.. there suffix doesn't match their name like the others iirc
14:11.18louipcornitorrincos: haha! ok cool
14:11.44louipcI preferred using openGL because X is too slow for me
14:11.53louipcogl uses hardware accel and stuff
14:11.58brlcad(modern euclid that is)
14:12.06louipcbut it seems to have refresh problems or something now
14:12.26elenathank you. for dxf, google search is a good idea.
14:12.47elenawhen i'm finished, i could it those to test some real examples.
14:12.52ornitorrincosand the irc log finished a few lines after I posted the error in pastebin
14:13.26``Eriklouipc: really? gl lines are awful slow, usually X is a lot faster :/ the whole bus transfer issue, y'know? do you have a smoking video card on a craptacular cpu?
14:14.19elenae.g like Erik's 8-core?
14:14.29elena;)
14:14.36louipc``Erik: kind of
14:14.43``ErikI'm home today, just a 2 core macbook here :)
14:15.02louipcI run a pIII 866 MHz
14:15.57``Erikthat is a bit behind the curve.. but *shrug* my first two machines were measured in khz
14:16.32``Erikand one of these days, I'll get around to making a vax 780 with 43bsd available on a web interface so people can experience BRL-CAD 4.x in its glory
14:16.40``Eriksimh++
14:17.10``Erikwhen things like clear or ls take a few seconds, that's nutty stuff :D
14:17.20louipcit's good to run old hardware, you can catch performance issues more easily ;D
14:17.40ornitorrincos``Erik, for that you can do ssh over a slow connection ;)
14:18.07``Erikheh, a few jobs ago, I was doing java code in a small shop, my choice hardware for development was a dual p133 with scsi's, the amd 450 was for video games :)
14:18.37elena:-)
14:19.16``ErikDEC prioris, made an awesome coffee table... and it showed two penguins on boot O.o
14:22.32CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35260 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/g-egg.c: make the vertex id unique to the file. Eliminate trailing whitespace. Etc.
14:24.08CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35261 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtie/tie_kdtree.c: panic mode for silliness.
14:24.37CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35262 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/prep.c: irrelevent slot.
15:03.27d-lois it brlcad vs the servers again today?
15:05.04brlcadbrlcad vs monthly reports and other business mail matters
15:05.21d-loah... the fun stuff :)
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15:16.30``Erikif you don't get the release out in time, I can push it while ya'll are out throwing beads at the pretty girls, just make sure ya bring back pics
15:17.27``Erik(ya knew that, but I won't bitch any more than normal)
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17:00.14CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35263 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtie/tie_kdtree.c: Fixed typo.
17:16.58CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35264 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/bbsize.xml: This is only a placeholder so that the build completes. The real file is coming.
17:28.43CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35265 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libdm/Makefile.am libdm/dm-rtgl.c tclscripts/mged/mview.tcl): turned z-clipping on by default for dm-rtgl
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18:19.03CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r35266 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/vmath.h src/proc-db/surfaceintersect.cpp):
18:19.05CIA-38BRL-CAD: adds the Jiggle get approximate intersection points closer to each other using
18:19.07CIA-38BRL-CAD: newtonesque methods also adds an additional macro in vmath.h Project which
18:19.13CIA-38BRL-CAD: decomposes a vector into components parallel and perpendiculur to a given vector
18:33.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35267 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/erase.c: Removed a few unused variables.
18:38.48CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35268 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/draw.c: Mod ged_addToDisplay to check if name is already in the list. If so, return the associated gdlp.
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18:49.28CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35269 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/bbsize.xml: oops - add the bbsize man page content.
19:06.32CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35270 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Added code to redraw anything associated with the object being edited if it's currently being drawn.
19:55.20*** part/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-75-169.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
21:18.40CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35271 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/ (brlcad.inc brlcad.module): Moved PHP-BRLCAD interface in separate file (brlcad.inc) and implemented file conversions.
21:28.10CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35272 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/dm-rtgl.h src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c): coloring with region material colors
21:55.04CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35273 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/expand.c: This is a follow-on from the previous commit (i.e. return only database entries that match the pattern(s)). This handles the case where the pattern has no wildcards.
21:57.44CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35274 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/Command.tcl: Added tab completion to the Command widget.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090724

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090724

01:01.31mike111hi all
01:02.12Ralithhello
01:02.21mike111hi Ralith.
01:02.36Ralith05:17:14 < brlcad> the 'area' command gives projected/presented area, but just a rough approximation -- rtarea is the tool to use
01:02.39Ralith05:20:17 < ``Erik> totally awesome, I've gotten, like, NO mail at bz, but this morning, I get spam there. yayyyy
01:02.42Ralith05:20:33 < brlcad> he gets the bu_log write error because rtarea is async and mged terminates before rtarea finishes, yet it can't display the  results because mged is gone
01:03.00Ralithmike111: see above.
01:03.02mike111Thanks, saw that when I just checked the log.
01:03.21mike111any solution? I need to save the rtarea output into a file.
01:04.06Ralithsolution to what?
01:04.39mike111I'm trying to run rtarea from the commandline using mged -c new.g "Z;E s1.r;top;rtarea"
01:04.55mike111but getting bu_log: write error
01:05.03mike111that's the async thing brlcad mentioned.
01:05.15Ralithmike111: you're hitting the exact same problem he mentioned, too.
01:05.20Ralithdon't use mged.
01:05.21Ralithuse rtarea.
01:06.12mike111but how do I set the correct view without mged? rtarea calculates the area of `projected/presented area', that is, you need to set the direction from which you view the object.
01:06.40Ralithplay with it and find out?
01:06.59Ralithwait for someone who knows?
01:07.00mike111man rtarea doesn't say anything about setting the view angle.
01:07.15Raliththat's why I said "play with it", rather than "read the manpage."
01:07.21mike111that's why I'm on the channel again today ;)
01:07.35RalithI suggest playing with it while waiting.
01:08.49mike111do you know what's the difference between arced and oed?
01:09.01Ralithnope
01:09.05Ralithmged's help command might.
01:09.17mike111Wasn't clear to me from reading the manual.
01:09.30mike111seems like I can modify an object's attribute with either.
01:09.37starseekermike111: you might try saveview inside mged and editing the generated script to call rtarea rather than rt
01:10.16Ralithperhaps rtarea accepts the same options as rt?
01:10.26Ralithmuch in the way that X apps tend to all accept the same X options?
01:11.24starseekerappears to
01:11.37Ralithmike111: then, see man rt for how to set the view.
01:12.20starseekertried it, and it looks like it worked: set up the desired view in mged, type saveview script.sh, edit script.sh to call rtarea rather than rt (probably want to delete the -o line and the redirect to a log, unless you want the rtarea output in a log file)
01:13.19mike111thanks Ralith and starseeker :) will try that
01:14.29mike111rtarea isn't an mged command so it's not in vol.II. Is there a manual for all such non-mged commands or at least a list of such commands?
01:15.16Ralithls /path/to/brlcad/bin
01:15.21Ralith:P
01:15.59starseekermike111: our documentation is far from comprehensive - first thing to try is brlman commandname
01:18.07starseekerRalith: probably adding a screenshot of the g3d window with the knot to your log - the wiki does support images, IIRC
01:18.38Ralithstarseeker: you mean, I probably should?
01:18.46Ralithyeah, sounds like a good idea
01:18.53Ralithneeds to sit down for half an hour at some point and bring his log up to date
01:23.53starseekerglares at g-vrml, g-stl, and friends
01:24.03starseekeror more specifically, the tesselation routines behind them
01:37.14CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35275 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: Tweak the isFlat comments
01:42.10mike111is there a way to find the surface area of an object and not the area of a projection?
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02:06.37CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35276 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): OK, enough of the benefits of the cleanup code are in the 'real' code that the cleanup code can be removed - flesh out the comments for subdivision and remove the cleanup files.
02:06.37brlcadmike111: no, not presently, at least not a good way that doesn't involve heavy scripting/coding
02:07.25mike111the manual (Vol.II) mentions `analyze' but it only applies to arbs?
02:07.34brlcadright
02:08.01mike111will `analyze' work on an ars?
02:09.06brlcadmike111: to run rtarea like you wanted, instead of running it inside mged, instead run "saveview -e rtarea whatever.rt" in mged, and then run ./whatever.rt
02:09.16brlcadno, analyze only works on arb8s
02:10.19mike111thanks for the rtarea tip. I'm now playing with a bash scripting to change a `saveview' script.
02:10.52brlcad"help saveview" has a few other options
02:11.00brlcadfor logging output, inputs, etc
02:11.13mike111will check that.
02:11.15mike111what's the difference between arced and oed?
02:11.44brlcadyou want to use oed and not arced ;)
02:12.11brlcadarced is an old command intended for animation manipulation/articulation
02:12.20mike111I read the manual about oed but Vol.II mentions arced which seems to do same.
02:12.40mike111OK. It's oed then ;)
02:12.44brlcadhuh, a bit surprised vol II would mention it..
02:13.13brlcadi mean it'll do the trick, but oed is really the one to use -- whole tutorial on the site dedicated to explaining just that command in detail with lots of example
02:13.47mike111arced is in p.157-158
02:14.02mike111that's the manual I read. easy to follow.
02:27.02starseekeroed doc is here:  http://brlcad.org/w/images/3/36/Object_Editing_-_the_oed_Command.pdf
02:29.49mike111starseeker: thanks, that's the manual I mentioned above.
02:30.58starseekermakes a stab at playing with C++ list push_back options and makes things worse... yech
02:31.27starseekerok, better to get some sleep and try with > 0.5 of brain tomorrow
02:34.52Ralithnite!
02:39.47brlcadRalith: starseeker: all the rt* apps accept the same options as 'rt' -- if they have specialized options, they're '-c"set VAR=value"' options (man rtedge for examples)
02:40.00Ralithcool, suspected as much
02:40.04Raliththat explains the sparse manpage
02:40.30brlcadalso why saveview has a -e option, to specify another rt to exec instead
02:42.12Ralithcool!
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03:31.46CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35277 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: lighting using open gl
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13:21.23CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35278 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c: Added command line function for centering human model, -l, by xyz coordinate.
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13:22.06rnkv2hi
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14:08.49brlcadhello rnkv2
14:08.52rnkv2could you help me with this problem: http://pastebin.com/m6f3d1b53 (it is the end of my compilation log)
14:09.07brlcadcan't get to pastebin.com
14:09.10brlcad~bzpaste
14:09.30brlcaduse, http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/ instead please
14:09.38rnkv2sure
14:09.46brlcad~bzpaste is http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/
14:09.46ibotbrlcad: okay
14:10.32louipcrnkv2: looks like you need mesa
14:11.12rnkv2brlcad, it messed up, give me a moment please
14:11.29rnkv2(checking if i have mesa)
14:12.15rnkv2mesa-7.3-r1 here
14:12.23louipcdebian/ubuntu?
14:13.28louipcmay need mesa-dev then. Hmm I don't know what version is needed though. I have 7.5
14:14.05rnkv2gentoo here
14:14.17rnkv2media-libs/mesa-7.3-r1 exactly
14:14.37rnkv2ok, i will check for newest
14:15.05louipccheck if you have those functions
14:15.34rnkv2could you provide ma hint how should i do that?
14:16.00louipcmaybe `man glDeleteLists`
14:16.41louipcthat only says if you have the man page though hehe
14:16.54rnkv2the same here :)
14:21.08louipcrnkv2: it's there yeah?
14:21.24rnkv2brlcad, here you go: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m25df21
14:21.53rnkv2no, it says that there is no such man page :(
14:21.54louipcyeah try updating to latest version, post your full log
14:22.16louipcrnkv2: oh ok. that might be a bad sign
14:22.26louipcrnkv2: you don't have -docs USEFLAG do you?
14:22.42rnkv2i think i don't have
14:22.59louipcok
14:23.52louipchmm mesa 7.3 isn't that old
14:24.13rnkv2i have 'doc' flag in system and it's switched of globaly
14:24.21rnkv2off*
14:25.54rnkv2btw what is the difference between http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/ and  http://pastebin.com ?
14:26.36louipcI guess brlcad's company doesn't let him visit pastebin.com
14:27.16rnkv2thanks for explaining
14:27.18louipcpastebin.com can get kind of slow though
14:35.45rnkv2what about libdrm? which version is needed?
14:35.56rnkv2mine is libdrm-2.4.5
14:36.46louipchmm no idea
14:37.26rnkv2ok, installing media-libs/mesa-7.5-r2
14:37.55rnkv2and libdrm-2.4.12 as dependency
14:38.36louipchehe that's what I have
14:39.12louipcdo you have libgl?
14:41.57rnkv2still checking...
14:43.52rnkv2louipc, with which ebuild it comes?
14:45.23rnkv2mesa compiled, trying to compile brl-cad
14:46.45louipcrnkv2: not sure. `locate libGL.so`
14:48.16rnkv2usr/lib/libGL.so
14:48.18rnkv2/usr/lib/opengl/xorg-x11/lib/libGL.so
14:48.19rnkv2/usr/lib/opengl/xorg-x11/lib/libGL.so.1
14:48.21rnkv2/usr/lib/opengl/xorg-x11/lib/libGL.so.1.2
14:48.22rnkv2/usr/lib/opengl/nvidia/lib/libGL.so.96.43.11
14:48.24rnkv2/usr/lib/opengl/nvidia/lib/libGL.so
14:48.25rnkv2/usr/lib/opengl/nvidia/lib/libGL.so.1
14:51.42rnkv2my brlcad configuration: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d24c9bd9f
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15:20.44rnkv2with new mesa and libdrm i got exactly the same error
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16:37.33rnkv2ok, next approach - I recompiled xorg-server and nvidia-drivers
16:38.04rnkv2compling brlcad
17:23.40rnkv2still the same error
17:28.34jdolinersry I missed your original msg where you said what the error was
17:28.38jdolinerming repeating?
17:29.00rnkv2sure, let me paste it again
17:29.17rnkv2here it is: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m25df21
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17:31.15rnkv2jdoliner, any idea what is wrong?
17:32.19jdolinerdid autogen and configure work w/o a hitch?
17:33.42rnkv2tail of my brl-cad configuration: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d24c9bd9f
17:33.58rnkv2what do you mean by w/o ?
17:34.03jdolinerwithout
17:34.27rnkv2there was some warnings
17:35.07rnkv2do you want me to place it all on pastebin?
17:35.40jdolineryeah if you don't mind
17:35.51rnkv2sure, please wait
17:38.28jdolinerokay I think you're missing a library
17:38.32jdolinerlet me figure out which one it is
17:39.15jdolinerwhat do you have in the way of opengl?
17:39.48rnkv2could you rephrase it?
17:41.51jdolinerare you using linux?
17:42.08rnkv2jdoliner, i'm not native english speaker and I don't get the 'in the way of' phrase
17:42.09jdolinerthat's not a rephrasing
17:42.16rnkv2yes, i'm using gentoo
17:42.38jdolinerk
17:43.41jdolinerdo the command: `glxinfo'
17:43.41jdolinerand paste me to output
17:45.08rnkv2here you go: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m6439682e\
17:45.15rnkv2http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m6439682e
17:47.37rnkv2and here is a complete configuration log http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m6a8a8c0f (I added all warnings at the end)
17:54.50jdolinerokay it looks like you're missing your gl C bindings
17:55.55jdolinerline 411:
17:55.56jdolinerchecking for OpenGL library availability... no
17:56.32rnkv2any idea how I make repair that?
17:56.40jdolineryeah you need to get mesa
17:56.49jdolineris I think the best solution
17:57.07jdolineri'm just checking exactly what it is I have here
17:57.12rnkv2i updated today to media-libs/mesa-7.5-r2
17:57.33rnkv2and still there is a problem
17:58.44jdolinerhmm
17:59.16rnkv2i recompiled after that xorg-server and nvidia-drivers
18:00.13jdolinerwell I'll keep looking but let's get sean in here because he know more than me
18:00.20jdolinerbrlcad
18:00.31jdolinerare you around someone could use your help
18:13.08rnkv2brb
18:13.16rnkv2reboot
18:13.49jdolinerk
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18:17.31rnkv2back
18:19.41jdolinerim kind of out of ideas
18:19.50jdolinersean will be able to help you for sure
18:21.23rnkv2thanks jdoliner :)
18:23.02rnkv2i rebooted and now there is now problem about nvidia in glxinfo
18:24.03rnkv2i cannot wait to see how this software is working :)
18:28.34brlcadrnkv2: you don't need opengl, what's the issue?
18:28.58brlcadit'll work fine with just X11 bindings
18:29.14rnkv2still the same error, i cannot finish compilation
18:29.57brlcadwhat's the error?
18:30.44brlcadthe gl errors?
18:30.46rnkv2brlcad,  http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m25df21
18:30.57brlcadyeah, is this an svn build?
18:31.03rnkv2yes
18:31.10brlcadare you up to date?
18:31.28brlcadsvn up
18:31.29rnkv2i downloaded it yesterday morning
18:31.57brlcadthat doesn't answer the question :)
18:32.08brlcadexcept hint at "probably not" ;)
18:32.47rnkv2brlcad, so what are you suggesting? svn export https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk source ?
18:33.09brlcaddid you export the first time or checkout?
18:33.16rnkv2export
18:33.19brlcadah, you shouldn't export
18:33.24brlcadnot if you're pulling trunk
18:33.33brlcadone of our new display managers was left enabled for a few hours yesterday, which uses opengl
18:33.45brlcadif you'd just done a checkout, you could now "svn up" and it'd work
18:33.52brlcadnow you can checkout again, though
18:34.15rnkv2ok, i will checkout it
18:53.35rnkv2now configuring and compiling
19:02.11brlcadsuggest --enable-all
19:02.15brlcadbut not critical
19:03.03rnkv2if current compilation would not work then i will try it
19:03.35rnkv2thank you for helping :)
19:07.54brlcadnp
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19:13.45brlcadhowdy pacman87
19:13.54brlcadhow goes school? settling in?
19:36.01rnkv2brlcad, the compilation was successful :) i've got only an error when i tried to install-  'make install' wants to install some components at  /usr/lib/   (like for example /usr/lib/Tkhtml3.0) - is there a way to install everything in user space (/home/brlcad) ?
20:12.54starseekerrnkv2: tkhtml3 is a bit of a problem child in that respect
20:13.33starseekeron some platforms it seems those makefiles insist on /usr/lib
20:14.19rnkv2i set now ./configure --prefix=/home/brlcad/usr --exec-prefix=/home/brlcad so we will see what it will bring
20:14.42brlcaddid you set prefix the first time?
20:14.57rnkv2only --prefix=/home/brlcad/usr
20:15.39brlcadthen shouldn't exec-prefix be /home/brlcad/bin already? :)
20:15.55brlcadyou'll probably have better luck just editing the Tkhtml Makefile
20:16.41brlcadsrc/other/tkhtml3/Makefile and src/other/tkhtml3/src/Makefile  .. see if there's a /usr/ or /usr/lib reference in there
20:17.01rnkv2there was created /home/brlcad/usr/bin, /home/brlcad/usr/lib etc with the first configuration
20:17.13rnkv2sure, thanks for hints
20:20.01rnkv2i run some other projects in user spaces and it's really convenient when you need to debug it or clear and try again, and it's also more secure when the software is working online
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20:24.26brlcadrnkv2: we actually default install isolated into /usr/brlcad
20:24.31brlcadfor that same reason
20:25.11brlcadthe /usr/lib thing is just a tkhtml build file bug of some sort
20:26.33rnkv2brlcad, but how someone may easily uninstall brl-cad from /usr/brlcad (and eventual other parts of system) ?
20:39.44CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35279 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/vmath.h src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c): adjusted z-clipping when using z-buffer
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21:14.30CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1579 10/wiki/More_Changelog: July 24
21:15.32CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1580 10/wiki/More_Changelog: /* July 7 - Today */
21:21.34rnkv2brlcad, it seams that './configure --prefix=/home/brlcad/usr --exec-prefix=/home/brlcad' did the job. I haven't noticed problems with tkhtml3
21:21.53rnkv2i was able to lunch brl-cad
21:21.56rnkv2:)
21:23.53rnkv2thanks for all the help you all :)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090725

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090725

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08:27.09CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35280 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/scripts/ (7.14/ 7.14.txt generic.txt): Update of BRLCAD scripts structure.
08:45.44CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35281 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/ (brlcad.inc brlcad.module): Automatic detection for supported file formats. New script system.
08:48.36CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1581 10/wiki/More_Changelog: July 25
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14:52.38CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03668 buy didronel 07http://brlcad.org * r1582 10/wiki/User:668_buy_didronel: New page: [http://www.mcgillcorp.industrialguard.com/invboard/index.php?showuser=910 Metformin buy] "Corwin. Also of Amber. Don't move! I did not ask who you are-" "Corwin is dead these many cen...
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15:41.49CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/delete:
15:41.51CIA-37BRL-CAD: deleted "[[User:668 buy didronel]]": content was:
15:41.53CIA-37BRL-CAD: '[http://www.mcgillcorp.industrialguard.com/invboard/index.php?showuser=910
15:41.55CIA-37BRL-CAD: Metformin buy] "Corwin. Also of Amber. Don't move! I did not ask who you ...'
15:41.57CIA-37BRL-CAD: (and the only contributor was '[[Special:Contributions/668 buy didronel|668 buy
15:41.59CIA-37BRL-CAD: didronel]]')
15:42.36CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:668 buy didronel]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled, e-mail blocked): Spamming links to external sites
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20:24.01CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35282 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/tagadelic/ (17 files in 2 dirs): Tagadelic module (initial commit) v1.1
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02:34.04CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35283 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: dynamically selecting suitable clipping and lighting on zoom
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19:58.48KhadorMechHello. Anyone here using BRL on a mac?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090727

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090727

00:32.06CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35284 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: scaling normals to maintain accurate lighting
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02:18.08mike111hi all
03:09.08brlcadhello
03:15.39mike111hi brclad, how r u?
03:21.02brlcadi'm doing great
03:21.20brlcadat least better than last week ;)
03:21.30mike111that's good :) .
03:22.37mike111Does g-stl accept any other units than mm or inches?
03:22.51Axman6brlcad: problems last week?
03:36.53brlcadmike111: no, the intent there is really just to provide a metric or standard file, not really unit support
03:37.11brlcadAxman6: no matter, just issues
03:37.29Axman6well, i hope they're all sorted :)
03:37.42brlcadnot yet, but hopefully
03:37.44mike111I thought so. I've got a model in meters, but g-stl exports in mm so the model becomes 1000 larger
03:38.36brlcadmike111: you can set the units in mged before running g-stl and it'll fix that
03:38.50brlcadthen set it back
03:39.31mike111not sure what you mean. I build the model in m units.
03:39.44brlcadI know
03:39.51brlcadi mean if you open the .g file, type
03:40.15brlcad'units mm', run g-stl, then back to mged and run 'units m' .. it should work fine
03:41.33mike111if I built the model in meters and then switch to mm mged doesn't scale the model to keep the original size (before units changed)?
03:42.15brlcadnope
03:42.38brlcadthe units command just sets the working units, what you want to work with
03:43.00mike111but sometimes it is easier to work with different units on the same model.
03:43.40brlcadexactly why you can work in mm for a while, switch to 'in' for a particular set of parts, back to "m", put in in a scene being modeling in "ft", etc...
03:43.44mike111from what you're saying I need to convert everything to the same units otherwise mged will scale the entire model everytime I switch units
03:43.55brlcadno no no
03:44.13brlcadi'm saying you need to run the "units" command
03:44.14brlcadrun it
03:44.17brlcadsee what it does
03:44.21brlcadit doesn't scale
03:44.28brlcadit just sets the working units
03:45.24brlcadso if you made a 1000x1000x1000 box with "units mm" (the default) .. then type "units m", it'll display as 1x1x1
03:45.50mike111then g-stl would still convert an object of 1m length to 1000mm example
03:45.52brlcadwhich is to say that it didn't scale anything, just changed the working units such that when asked to display that box (which already exists), it displays using those working units
03:46.07brlcadsmacks forehead
03:46.13brlcadyou're still not getting it :)
03:46.20brlcadset the units to mm
03:46.31brlcadthen what you have is exactly what g-stl is assuming you have
03:46.49brlcadno scaling
03:46.55brlcadjust different presentation of values
03:47.33brlcadre-read what I suggested and try it: 'units mm', run g-stl, then back to mged and run 'units m'
03:47.45mike111sure. I'll try that later.
03:47.54brlcadcheck the value of your objects, you'll see they don't change
03:47.59brlcadthey just display with whatever units you set
03:48.13mike111another question: what's the difference between `sca' and `oscale'?
03:48.15brlcadg-stl doesn't really care about units, it just looks at the value
03:49.30brlcadhistory, subtle differences -- no practical difference
03:49.51brlcadoscale is intended to be used with object-edit mode, which only applies to combinations
03:51.56mike111I'm using `sca' with oed, but the manual also mentions `oscale'.
03:52.55brlcadoscale should go away
03:53.23mike111thanks for clarifying that. :)
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08:26.41CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35285 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/OgreGLWidget.cxx: Fixed reception of keyboard input.
08:40.49CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35286 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/OgreGLWidget.cxx: Less emphatic keyboard focus; no longer breaks everything else.
08:45.27CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35287 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/MainWindow.cxx: Focus render area on application startup, making keyboard camera control work immediately.
08:52.30CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35288 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/OgreGLWidget.cxx: Reordered constructor initializers and dropped an argument name to quell warnings.
08:55.10CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35289 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (OgreGLWidget.cxx OgreGLWidget.h): Dropped unnecessary cruft left over from past attempts to get the Ogre GL context correctly resized.
09:10.33CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35290 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraMode.cxx CameraMode.h): Replaced broken vertical rotation limits with smooth wraparound.
09:16.01CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35291 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CameraModeBlender.cxx: Added rotation limit fix to CameraModeBlender, including changes to prevent horizontal rotation overflow.
09:21.12CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35292 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (4 files): Applied rotation limit/overflow fix to CameraModeMGED and cleaned up earlier tweaks.
09:24.33CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35293 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CameraMode.cxx: Added a forgotten but all-important negation that prevents circularIncrement from becoming incredibly overenthusiastic.
09:26.31CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35294 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CameraMode.cxx: Doubled correctional offsets in circularIncrement to prevent pervasive view jumping.
09:29.48Raliththat's weird.
09:30.17Raliththe view jumps a ton when vertical rotation crosses π/2
09:39.10Ralith+/- pi/2, that is
09:41.17CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03Briannew220 07http://brlcad.org * r1583 10/wiki/Main_Page: /* BRL-CAD Wiki */
09:44.16CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35295 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CameraMode.cxx: Simplified some code in the continuing effort to remove the viewjump at a vertical rotation of +/-pi/2
09:59.47Ralithhm
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11:28.58CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1584 10/wiki/Main_Page: Bloody spammers :/
11:31.06d-lo_Mernin all.
11:40.45d-loSpammer are stupid. Does anyone really pay attention to spam anyways?
11:43.52archivistyes all the wiki cleaners
11:44.25archivistlock the main page down
11:45.43archiviston my wiki I protect any spammed pages,to stop the buggers from using the same page again
11:46.17d-lowell, the brlcad wiki isn't mine to admin :)
11:48.49Ralithsup d-lo!
11:48.53RalithI actually caught you!
11:48.55Ralith:D
11:50.03d-lohides.
11:50.16d-loThing are going well I see :)
11:50.29Ralithreasonably.
11:50.46Ralithit's a shame the OpenGL embedding thing didn't work out as well as planned.
11:50.55Ralithbut, fortunately, it should be hard to tell the difference.
11:51.09Ralithand there is yet hope for getting it working later on.
11:51.27d-loPerhaps in time, after a few iterations, you (or someone) will find the key to making the embedded openGL approach work.
11:51.44RalithI can't work out what's going on with the camera angle such that it flips around every time yaw hits +/- pi/2 though :/
11:52.05Ralithcleaned up mafm's camera code a good bit looking for it, but no luck yet.
11:52.21d-loI had a thought this weekend:  Since pictures speak a thousand words, why don't you start dropping a medium-rez SS or two on your wiki status log ;)
11:52.41Ralithyeah, I'll do that
11:53.00Ralithabout right when I get around to catching up on the log messages themselves >_>
11:53.05d-loas for the camera, how are you controlling it?
11:53.15RalithI was able to reuse all mafm's camera control code, fortunately
11:53.28Ralithjust had to swap out the OIS related code for its Qt equivalents
11:54.03Ralithand just tonight I fixed keyboard input, so camera control works exactly the same as in original g3d; three selectable modes which each interpret kb/mouse input differently.
11:54.04d-logood deal.  But even after that swap, there are still that eqn problem?
11:54.10Ralitheqn?
11:54.14d-loequation
11:54.17RalithO.o
11:54.18Ralithwat?
11:54.26d-lo<PROTECTED>
11:54.38Ralithyeah
11:54.46Raliththat's something that was always in mafm's code
11:55.04d-loso are you feeding the camera an angle?
11:55.13RalithI thought I knew what was causing it (there was some arbitrary limits and weird math and special handling of yaw) but scrapping all that didn't help.
11:56.02Ralithuh, lemme check the code
11:56.16d-loCameraManager ?
11:56.54Ralithno, not using that
11:56.55RalithCameraMode
11:57.15Ralithlooks like we're passing a SceneNode to OgreCamera::setPosition
11:57.47Ralithlemme see if there's a less indirect approach to that.
11:59.36Ralithokay, got something.
11:59.55d-loSide note: curious.  There is a definition for a Vector in the CameraMode class.  Pretty sure thats been defined somewhere in the orge suite. :)
12:00.06Ralithnot to mention in BRL-CAD.
12:00.10Ralithit's a low priority cleanup issue.
12:00.20d-loi figured :)
12:02.46Raliththis is weird
12:03.05Ralithit's like mafm wasn't expecting the camera to track it's own position/orientation O.o
12:04.18Ralithoh, I think I see why; rotation *around* a point.
12:04.48d-loare you referring to the fields inside CameraMode?
12:05.11Ralithno, the complexity of the code from L134-L168
12:05.45Ralithstill, I'm pretty sure there's a cleaner way to do this...
12:07.03d-loah, okay.  Yeah, the code that is executed once _actionPan is checked against SimpleVector(0,0,0).
12:07.11d-lo*agreed*
12:07.40d-loI think a breakout of that code into more logical internal functions would pretty much solve the problem.
12:08.38d-looutside of the Camera pan issue, how else are things going?
12:08.51RalithI dunno, it's pretty tempting to rework a good chunk of the class from the conceptual level
12:09.05Ralithget it proper support for continuous/instantaneous forms of all movements
12:09.17Ralithpretty good; Qt's a pleasure to work with
12:09.30d-loI say go for it, depending on how long it will take.
12:09.33RalithI'm pretty close to strapping mafm's command system into the GUI
12:09.37d-loQt = goodness :)
12:09.39Ralithshouldn't be long, unless the math trips me up
12:09.40Ralithyeah
12:09.46RalithI didn't have that high expectations going in
12:09.51Ralithbut DAMN it makes things convenient.
12:10.15Raliththe UI designer app's great, too, and cmake's solid support for the whole stack tops things off nicely.
12:10.37Ralithbeing able to go from the designer to code and then easily access that code from the implementation is great.
12:13.29d-loNow, are you sucking in the UI file through cmake directly?
12:13.33Ralithyep
12:13.39d-lonice.
12:13.55Ralithyou edit the UI file, cmake notes the edit time change and reruns uic before the next build.
12:14.03d-loI was messing around with QT a while ago and the Designer used to have a 'generate code' function... I think they took that out :/
12:14.04Ralithmetaobject handling is the same.
12:14.12Raliththey moved it into a separate tool
12:14.19Ralithnow you just run 'uic blah.ui'
12:14.26Ralithand get ui_blah.h
12:15.32Ralithperhaps the most encouraging part of working with Qt was how easy it seems to be to create specialized widgets
12:15.44Ralithas you might've noticed, I made the primitive console its own widget
12:15.53Ralith*very* straightforward
12:16.02Ralithand the doc's are a dream, too.
12:16.07Ralithdocs're*
12:18.03d-loGood stuff man.  I gotta get workin now :/  Keep up the good work.  You've got good momentum, keep it up :)
12:18.22Ralithkk
12:18.27Ralithseeya next time I'm up way too late ^^
12:18.48d-lohah, late == early :)
12:26.52CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35296 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (5 files): Initial attempt at re-integrating command support. Uncertain success.
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14:05.23mafmd-lo: the Vector definition probably it's just a storage of x and y values, not a full blown class with operations and stuff
14:07.26mafmabout the strangeness (180 degree turn) it happens when looking from zenithal view or something
14:07.52mafmdue to something like the value of the function (cos, sin, whatever) changing sign
14:09.06mafmyou can add a simple check to avoid that artifact if you want, but IIRC the must-have camera modes (mged and blender) were working mostly as expected
14:09.29mafmprobably with some advanced functionality missing
14:09.43mafmbut well, it's just a matter of extending it
14:10.12mafmother camera modes (orbital/continuous) were a bonus
14:15.38CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35297 10/brlcad/trunk/ (9 files in 4 dirs): These changes get kill, killall, killtree and killrefs working with undo in Archer.
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14:59.14d-lomafm: I figured that SimpleVector was a 'quick n dirty,' just was wondering why it hadn't been replaced yet, thats all :)  And its a full 3D vector.
15:02.37CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35298 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c:
15:02.38CIA-37BRL-CAD: Corrected a problem with bounding boxes being placed on the wrong side of the body
15:02.40CIA-37BRL-CAD: when being made.
15:04.50mafmd-lo: well yes, it's 3d, but it's only storage with 1 operation: http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CameraMode.h?revision=35292&view=markup
15:04.59mafmnot nearly as complex as Ogre's
15:05.28d-loright :) I get that :)
15:05.31mafmmaybe I hadn't used brlcad includes by then
15:07.01d-lono big deal.  I was just skimming over the code and noticed that.
15:09.03mafmwhat I mean is that the idea is to have a lightweight way to pass 3 float coordinates for panning and the like contained in one class (parameter), instead of having to instantiate a full vector class with all of the associated operations
15:47.11*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-75-169.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
15:47.58CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35299 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/dm-rtgl.h src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c): sorting points by color for faster OpenGL drawing
16:43.52CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03IRPGuardian 07http://brlcad.org * r1585 10/wiki/Main_Page:
16:57.00CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03IRPGuardian 07http://brlcad.org * r1586 10/wiki/User:IRPGuardian:
16:59.11CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35300 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 5 dirs):
16:59.13CIA-37BRL-CAD: improve the opengl header tests (which were not working correctly on Mac OS X
16:59.15CIA-37BRL-CAD: 10.4) to go through AC_CHECK_HEADER instead of being custom AC_COMPILE_IFELSE
16:59.17CIA-37BRL-CAD: tests. opengl functionality tests occur later on. set GL_CPPFLAGS instead of
16:59.19CIA-37BRL-CAD: GL_CFLAGS for the header search paths to be consistent/pedantic.
17:04.39*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-27.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
17:52.50CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r35301 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/surfaceintersect.cpp: Added functionality to find starting points for curve intersections
18:04.35CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35302 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/get_obj_bounds.c: Fixed a small memory leak.
18:58.59CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35303 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: unpush rears its head once again, now with an sf tracker (2826720 from victor). additional thought is to allow object creation as part of the unpush in order to retain matrix-less parents.
19:01.52CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35304 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
19:01.58CIA-37BRL-CAD: another repeat offender, the ability to really easily checkpoint/backup a .g
19:02.06CIA-37BRL-CAD: file while editing it via some sort of archive/backup command. something near
19:02.14CIA-37BRL-CAD: equivalent to an external cp file.g /path/to/backup/dir/file_20100427_021800.g
19:02.18CIA-37BRL-CAD: with automatic date and timestamping.
19:04.27CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35305 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: consider option to reid/remat/edcodes and potentially others to ignore negative regions
19:04.37*** join/#brlcad ornitorrincos (n=ilcra198@archlinux/trusteduser/ornitorrincos)
19:27.33CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35306 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: add file input support to mv/mvall commands so you can feed them mapping files. this relates to sf request 2827957
19:29.30CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35307 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/prep.c: The rt_prep_parallel routine was returning without releasing RT_SEM_RESULTS in a few places. This was causing a hang in Cliff's bbsize.
19:31.59CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35308 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Add Bob's rt_prep_parallel fix to news file.
19:34.52brlcadthat's not exactly a user news line
19:35.25brlcadshould be worded from the user's perspective, not the code
19:36.11starseekerok
19:37.26CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35309 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Tweak news file.
19:39.20brlcadah, and that clarifies even more.. :)  not a news line
19:39.28brlcadpre-release bug catch
19:42.22starseekerso, no news item?
19:42.33starseekermake_bb would also have triggered it
19:42.57brlcadyeah, then it's a fix for make_bb
19:43.11brlcadremember the last commit comment is the one that gets pulled for the report
19:43.51CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35310 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Tweak news file some more.
19:43.57starseekeroh, whoops
19:43.59brlcadah yeah, the "expand capabilities" line is another
19:44.37brlcadnot user visible until it's released, and that is encompassed by the first line
19:45.02starseekerok, I'll clear it
19:45.47CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35311 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bbsize is already mentioned as a new command, don't need extra NEWS line.
19:53.48CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35312 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c:
19:53.51CIA-37BRL-CAD: Human model mostly fits into bounding boxes when in the standing position now.
19:53.53CIA-37BRL-CAD: Rotation matrix is still throwing things off when limbs are moved, causing bounding
19:53.55CIA-37BRL-CAD: boxes to be rotated around some other point other than the point center.
20:13.11*** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
20:13.11*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
20:13.15CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35313 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/Makefile.am: move DM_RTGL_* into the WITH_OPENGL block.
20:23.36Ralithmafm: there's no overhead to additional member functions.
20:24.08Ralithyou could use the most advanced linalg class available, and if its data was just three coords it'd be just as lightweight :P
20:24.38Ralithmafm: and yeah, all the camera modes basically work great; I just want to have it *completely* working.
20:27.03Ralithmafm: and yeah, it happens precisely on the zenith, or its reflection around the horizontal plane.  Any tips as to *where* the simple check goes?  I've fiddled around in several places to no avail.
20:59.08CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35314 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/dm-rtgl.h src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c): starting to add support for point heirarchy
20:59.43brlcadack.. moved DM_RTGL on me
20:59.48brlcadno wunda
20:59.50``Erikmwahaha
21:00.21``Eriktwo of my primary builders weren't seeing GL, so I was getting slews of unresolved symbol glEnable() etc
21:01.06brlcadhe accidentally committed it enabled for about a day, probably stale build
21:01.35brlcadi just finished adding a proper --enable-rtgl option for it, was mid-testing
21:02.00``Erikfull autogen cycle didn't pick it up *shrug* but coulda been stale...
21:02.18*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-27.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
21:02.38``Erikhas done so much nonproductive bs crap today, was itching to get a build so he could code again O.o
21:02.55``Erikfix email access, catch up on email, fill out paperwork and forms out the wazoo, etc
21:09.32``Erikmmm, finally, a good debugging stack. *sigh*
21:12.12Ralithbrlcad: wait, where's OpenGL come in on rtgl?
21:12.17RalithI thought it was just the raytracer?
21:12.32mafmRalith: I think that when you create an object of type Blah vs Vector3, the amount of memory that you reserve is different, and things like that
21:12.44brlcadRalith: it's both
21:12.51Ralithmafm: no, not if it's just a matter of additional member functions.
21:12.56brlcadit uses raytracing to find the surfaces, then uses opengl to display them
21:13.00Ralithbrlcad: oh, cool!
21:13.15mafmin this case maybe Ogre::Vector3 doesn't inherit from other classes and so on, but still, you have to include the file and all of it's includes, and you spend more time compiling every time
21:13.50Ralithmafm: building an include file doesn't take much time, and chances are it's already included somewhere else anyway.
21:14.09Ralithnot to say that you did badly there or anything
21:14.12Ralithbut just fyi.
21:14.21Ralithbrlcad: how far along is it?
21:14.33brlcadpretty far, it looks awesome
21:14.37Ralith:D
21:14.52Ralithafter SoC I'd like to have a go at stapling it onto g3d
21:15.08Ralithnot sure how it'd be made to interact with ogre, though
21:15.36brlcadit'll be a little tricky, but interesting idea
21:15.47brlcadit might be easier to merely staple libdm into g3d
21:15.54brlcadas it is a dm interface
21:16.10brlcadi.e. it'd be a different 3d view renderer instead of ogre
21:16.17Raliththat would be pretty easy.
21:16.30Ralithjudging from past experience wrt. adding new Qt widgets
21:16.53mafmwell, I decreased compiling times by more than 50% in many projects (not mine) just by removing includes
21:16.57mafmyour mileage may vary
21:17.29RalithI guess the challenge would really be how to keep all the displays sync'd
21:17.41mafmhttp://www.brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CameraMode.cxx?revision=35295&view=markup -> the camera thingy is here in vertical rotation, IIRC
21:17.41Ralithsuch that you can swap from one to another and still have all the same stuff visible, same perspective, etc.
21:17.56Ralithmafm: yeah, I know it's in there, but *where* in there?
21:17.58brlcadRalith: you wouldn't use ogre, you'd use libdm instead of ogre
21:18.02brlcaddifferent render manager
21:18.03mafmwhen passing some limit pi/2, or 0, or something like that
21:18.03Ralithbrlcad: yes, I know
21:18.24Ralithwait
21:18.39Ralithbrlcad: so to get Ogre, I'd just write a libdm interface for Ogre?
21:18.54Ralithmafm: no, I already scrapped all that with some code that handles overflow and wraps properly.
21:20.17*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-75-169.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
21:21.15mafmc (3.141592/2.0+0.01)
21:21.17mafm-.008
21:21.18mafmc (3.141592/2.0-0.01)
21:21.20mafm.011
21:21.31Ralith?
21:21.36mafmI think that when changes sign, the direction of the vector changes
21:21.46Ralithwhen what changes sign?
21:21.49Raliththe direction of what vector?
21:21.51mafmso it looks backwards instead of forwar
21:22.05brlcadRalith: you still seem to be missing the "libdm instead of ogre" part ;)
21:22.14Ralithbrlcad: so, scrapping Ogre entirely?
21:22.19brlcadnot scrapping
21:22.32Ralithyou were regaling me the other day with how valuable Ogre's optimizations would be O.o
21:22.33brlcadi'm saying you could make it a build-time option to use libdm or use ogre
21:22.37Ralithoh.
21:22.39Raliththat's no fun :P
21:22.41brlcadif you use libdm, you got classic mged displays
21:22.48Ralithrtgl's no classic display
21:22.49brlcadif you use ogre, you get the new stuff
21:23.04brlcadit is in the sense that it's just another libdm interface
21:23.09brlcadyou do one, you have them all
21:23.13brlcadit's a pretty simple interface
21:23.20mafmRalith: do you understand how the camera mode class works, in general?
21:23.28Ralithbrlcad: I guess a compiletime option would be acceptable until the BREP-based solution shows up, then?
21:23.35Ralithwhich could be integrated with Ogre properly?
21:23.41Ralithmafm: I'm pretty sure I do
21:23.48brlcadRalith: you could certainly integrate what's there with ogre
21:23.55brlcadit just is kinda funky that way
21:24.07Ralithbrlcad: I could?  Ogre doesn't seem to take well to manual OpenGL calls.
21:24.19mafmthe camera is in some point in an sphere of variable radius around the target
21:24.25brlcadso don't make manual opengl calls .. and I think that was more something you were doing wrong :)
21:24.48Ralithprobably, but the point stands that it's outside what Ogre's designed to accept.
21:25.09mafm<PROTECTED>
21:25.20brlcadit's not, ogre has point-cloud visualization -- just don't know if it'd perform nearly as well as what it's doing by hand
21:25.35brlcadit basically is just a massive point cloud getting generated
21:25.46Ralithit doesn't wrap a surface around it?
21:25.55brlcadstill, it'd be way more useful to integrate libdm instead of ogre, even better to have both run-time toggleable
21:26.12Raliththat's what I was thinking of originally :P
21:26.24brlcadthat's not what you said
21:26.27Ralithit would probably be pretty easy to do so, if, as I mentioned, the state tracking could be worked out.
21:26.32brlcadthat doesn't involve putting libdm *into* ogre still
21:26.47brlcadit doesn't involve ogre at all really, just swaps between one or the other
21:26.47Raliththat's also not what I said :P
21:27.00brlcad17:18 < Ralith> brlcad: so to get Ogre, I'd just write a libdm interface for Ogre?
21:27.11Ralithbrlcad: as in, have Ogre be a libdm *client*
21:27.18Ralithin the same position as rtgl.
21:27.32Ralithbut I was actually referring to before that confusion.
21:27.41brlcadthat would defeat most of the benefits ogre brings to the table
21:27.46Ralithah.
21:28.26brlcadit'd work fine if you had some concept of an abstract graphics display class with one specialization using ogre and another using libdm
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21:28.57Ralithyeah
21:29.00Raliththus that being where the work lies.
21:36.27Ralithbrlcad: how far along is the brep stuff, anyway?
21:41.50*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-185-57.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
21:44.26Ralithpokes mafm
21:45.10Ralithmafm: calling lookAt gives the camera a set of coordinates; negative values just mean negative coords.
21:45.13*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-75-169.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
21:45.32Ralithmafm: the place the camera's looking at shouldn't even modified by the yaw.
21:46.41Ralithand if the camera was looking backwards, it wouldn't be able to see the object :P
21:47.05mafmI never managed to grasp the meaning of yaw, etc
21:47.13mafmbut imagine that your head is the camera
21:47.46mafmwhen you're behind an object almost at the zenith, and you cross the zenith, your head would be heading downwards
21:48.48mafmwhat this camera/head does is to rotate, so your head is always up
21:48.48CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35315 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraMode.cxx Console.cxx Console.h): Another apparently effectless simplification of CameraMode and failed attempt to enable console signalling.
21:48.48Ralithmafm: ahhhh.
21:48.48Raliththat makes sense!
21:48.48Raliththanks.
21:48.48Ralithit modifies the roll.
21:48.48mafmwhen you pass the zenith you rotate, so the head continues to be "upright" instead of heading downwards
21:48.58RalithI guess... that's actually desired behavior then, isn't it O.o
21:49.20mafmit was, yes
21:49.28Ralithnot always, though
21:49.32Ralithit's certainly not how blender handles things
21:49.36mafmthe orbital mode was "invented" by me, didn't try to emulate any other program
21:49.44Raliththis isn't orbital mode
21:49.46Raliththis is *all* modes
21:50.04Ralith(I do love how smooth the view moves in orbital, though ^^)
21:50.31mafmwell, let's say that I started with orbital since it's the more comprehensive
21:50.39Ralithnods
21:50.45RalithI'll twiddle things and see where it goes
21:50.46mafmI didn't care of that weird thing at that point
21:51.02mafmbut it turns out that it's a bit strange when happens for the rest of the modes
21:51.06Ralithnow that I understand *why* it's doing that, at least conceptually, I should be able to ferret it out.
21:51.28mafmI mean, it's not designed to be specifically at that way, just that I didn't bothered changing it
21:51.32Ralithyeah
21:52.56mafmand IIRC was in one of the parameters of rotation (horz or vert) in the transition at the zenith
21:53.10Ralithparameters of rotation?
21:53.45mafmhorzRot, vertRot
21:54.09mafmthe variables which hold the position of the camera, having center as base
21:54.36Raliththose are floats; they don't have parameters...
21:55.31mafmwell, the right word for you would be "orbital/spherical coordinates", instead of parameters :D
21:55.41CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35316 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Console.cxx Console.h): Working command input! :D
21:55.52Ralithmafm: oh, you mean "it occurs when vertRot passes the zenith?"
21:55.56Ralithyeah, I noticed that
21:55.57Raliththat is
21:56.01RalithI noticed the magic value
21:56.05Ralithdidn't realize its significance
21:56.46mafmyes, something like that
21:57.22mafmso the check would be to detect the transition and modify the resulting value
21:57.59mafm"when Blah was almost at zenith in past frame and now is past zenith, do whatever"
21:58.55Ralithwell, that would have to refer to M_PI
21:59.08mafmmaybe you don't have to save state between frames, just compare if the past value of the variable plus delta is bigger than 2*pi, or so
21:59.24Ralithand the only remaining references to M_PI are ones I've already vetted :/
22:08.19mafmI think that part of the problem is that some coordinate varies between 0 and pi, another between -pi and pi
22:08.22mafmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_coordinates#Definition
22:08.23CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35317 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c: Added shoulder joints to bounding box list, giving a (nearly) fully boxed model when standing.
22:08.56Ralithmafm: as far as I can see, I've standardized everything to +/-pi
22:10.13mafmI can't really remember the specifics
22:10.26Ralithno worries, I'll work it out
22:10.32mafm:)
22:10.38Ralithwhile you're here—
22:10.59CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35318 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: Added history to the console.
22:11.14Ralithwhere does the text output used in the original console come from?
22:11.20Ralithit looks like logger output
22:12.13Ralithhm. looks like Logger::attach
22:12.37Ralithwhich is ObserverSubject::attach?
22:12.52Ralithyep
22:14.47mafmthe console was observing the log, yep
22:14.56mafmso you can see things in both places
22:15.17Ralithkk, cool
22:32.50Ralithargh
22:32.55RalithI hate iterating over STL containers holding const values
22:32.58RalithI can never get it right :|
22:46.32CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35319 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac src/libdm/Makefile.am src/mged/Makefile.am): (log message trimmed)
22:46.35CIA-37BRL-CAD: add a proper --enable-rtgl flag to configure that will enable/disable
22:46.39CIA-37BRL-CAD: compilation of the new rtgl dm interface. it's still tied to opengl (which is
22:46.41CIA-37BRL-CAD: presently defaulted off), so you have to specify --with-opengl too.
22:46.45CIA-37BRL-CAD: intentionally did not assign aliases or add to enable-all as a) it's still under
22:46.49CIA-37BRL-CAD: development, b) it needs more work at least to not hang drawing, and c) there
22:46.53CIA-37BRL-CAD: still needs to be a way to turn all the dm/fb's on/off consistently with
22:57.24CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35320 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Console.cxx Console.h OgreGLWidget.cxx): Working, but backwards, log messages in console output.
22:59.55CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35321 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: Flipped console message ordering the right way around.
23:02.07Ralithwoo
23:02.11Ralithfully functional console :D
23:16.44``Eriksurprisingly easy, huh?
23:21.24CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35322 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (7 files): Dropped some no-longer-relevant code held over from RBGui usage.
23:22.22Ralith``Erik: yep; mafm's existing command/logging stuff was put together solidly, and Qt is, too, so it was pretty straightforward to glue them together.
23:25.50RalithG3D has now been completely uncrufted :D
23:25.58``Erikcompletely? O.o
23:26.00Ralithoh wait
23:26.01Ralithnot quite
23:26.40Raliththere we go.
23:26.48RalithNOW it's been fully uncrufted.
23:27.05CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35323 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (14 files): Dropped remaining RBGui code and cleaned out CMakeLists.
23:27.07Ralith^^
23:34.28CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35324 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Commands.h: Removed command reliant on outdated code.
23:45.25CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35325 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/MainWindow.cxx: Wired the dropdown setting change signal to the ogreView's setFocus slot so the user doesn't have to keep clicking on the render area.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090728

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090728

00:03.37*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net)
00:22.49CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35326 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/doc/ChangeLog: move ChangeLog up. Remove binary_spec.txt. Remove doc/.
00:23.17``Erikbah
00:23.32CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35327 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (5 files): Re-enabled the quit command.
00:23.55CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35328 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (ChangeLog doc/): move ChangeLog up. Remove binary_spec.txt. Remove doc/.
00:24.37``Erikstumbles and staggers through his svn commit attempt
00:25.13CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35329 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/Makefile.am: move ChangeLog up. Remove binary_spec.txt. Remove doc/.
00:51.24brlcadRalith: woot
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01:28.44Ralithwhew
01:28.45Raliththat was intense
01:30.03Ralithstretches
01:30.07CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35330 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (16 files): First stage of command system rework complete; now no longer uses globals and functions based on QObject's signal/slot facilities.
01:30.42Ralithsorry 'bout the massive commit, but it was one of those things that doesn't build at all until it's finished
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02:33.09CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35331 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (6 files): Switched to QString(List)s, leading to significant simplification.
02:42.34CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35332 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: creating list of directory top names
02:46.15CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35333 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Console.cxx Console.h MainWindow.cxx): Added support for displaying command output to the console.
02:51.51CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35334 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CommandInterpreter.cxx Console.cxx): Prevent lag encountered when the commnand output label is displayed for the first time.
03:15.59CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35335 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: Slightly cleaner lag prevention
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10:45.15elenahi
10:46.04elenaping: starseeker, ``Erik, brlcad
10:48.14brlcadgood morning elena
10:48.25elenahi :)
10:48.36elenado you have time for one question?
10:48.47brlcadalways
10:49.02elenawhen i start rt from mged it seems to start in bg.
10:49.10elenais there a way to run it in fg
10:49.23brlcadyeah, run it outside of mged :)
10:49.27elenaor to stop mged from exit until rt exits.
10:49.53elenai was afraid you'll say that.
10:50.09brlcadif you absolutely don't want to reinvoke mged, you can "saveview blah.rt" then "exec ./blah.rt"
10:50.13elenausing saveview from mged?
10:50.32elenaok.
10:50.46brlcadsaveview has a variety of options for changing the rt command, logging options, etc
10:50.57brlcadand can be tweaked fi needed
10:51.02elenaok. thank you.
10:51.23elenagood morning (btw) :)
10:51.29brlcad:)
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13:33.23``Erikyargh
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14:20.41CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35336 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/move.c: Mod to use %V instead of the deprecated %S in the pattern string for a call to bu_vls_printf.
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14:46.46CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35337 10/brlcad/trunk/INSTALL: give a big 'find' command one-liner that should fully set up a /usr/brlcad rooted installation with proper developer access permissions.
15:04.50brlcadstarseeker: that find line should "fix" permissions anywhere
15:12.23starseekerbrlcad: ok, cool :-)
15:12.40starseekerthanks!
15:15.21CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35338 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: tcl/tk/itcl/itk libs are getting installed with bad permissions; itcl/itk pkgIndex.tcl files aren't pointing at the .so library file. bad juju all around there.
15:35.36CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35339 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c:
15:35.37CIA-79BRL-CAD: Started adding support for building a human based upon percentile, using the -p## command.
15:35.39CIA-79BRL-CAD: So in the future, -p40 would make a 40th percentile (shorter) guy.
16:34.31CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35340 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/move_all.c: Added a -n option to ged_move_all.
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16:38.22CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35341 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c: Update a comment in go_edit_redraw_func.
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17:00.38CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35342 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Theses changes make it possible to undo mv and mvall commands in Archer.
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17:26.30CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35343 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: wow, oops! .. accidentally committed a debugging LDFLAGS line specific to Macs.
17:27.40starseekerwas wondering...
17:27.56starseekerOpenGL suddenly wasn't detected
17:28.13starseekertries again, maybe it's 10.4...
17:31.02starseekerermmm.
17:31.15starseekermakes a note to look at that later
17:41.28brlcadstarseeker: I just modified the opengl checks yesterday
17:41.35brlcadspecifically for 10.4
17:42.17brlcadthey were testing and defaulting to off regardless of setting due to the check types -- now it should be a lot simpler header test
17:43.11brlcadI have a clean build using the new tests on 10.4 and 10.5 now so you can post your config.log and configure output if yours is busted
17:43.23CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03Jdoliner 07http://brlcad.org * r1587 10/wiki/User:Jdoliner: Updated progress on surface surface intersection.
17:44.01brlcadbah, another tkhtml bustage .. it's trying to run src/other/tcl/unix/tclsh even when we don't build tcl
17:45.19CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03Jdoliner 07http://brlcad.org * r1588 10/wiki/User:Jdoliner: trying to make this page a bit more readable
17:47.35CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03Jdoliner 07http://brlcad.org * r1589 10/wiki/User:Jdoliner: don't make things any prettier the first time :(
18:21.40CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35344 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkhtml3/Makefile.in: try to force a generic tclsh/wish so that tkhtml3 will hopefully build regardless of using a system tcl
18:44.37brlcadstarseeker: I hate to say it but tkhtml3 is a pain in the ass .. and probably needs some automake lovin'
18:45.01brlcador maybe an update if they've improved things
18:48.16brlcador at least, the way we call their configure needs some work so that if we're building against a system tcl that it doesn't try to install where tcl installed
18:48.33brlcadpretty sure that's where the /usr/lib install is coming from
18:52.24``Erikheh
19:00.22CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35345 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/Makefile.am: update dependancy list
19:01.21starseekerbrlcad: agreed, but how do we make the package bit work if we don't install where tcl/tk wants its packages installed?
19:02.09CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35346 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtie/tie.c: announce degenerate triangles
19:02.24starseeker``Erik and I discussed it at one point - if tkhtml3 is needed to extend a system tcl/tk, CAN it be workably installed anywhere but where the system tcl/tk is? particularly when using the specialized tcl macros for that purpose in the Make logic?
19:03.51starseekerif we do the hack that I originally copied off of how we build tkimg, I think we avoid the issue but at the expense of being able to do package require
19:05.33starseekerok, looks like the OpenGL thing was stale logic
19:05.53starseekergleefully enables rtgl
20:06.49CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35347 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/load_g.c: Use explicitely malloc'd memory chunks. Push one tri at a time. Minor cleanup.
20:24.28starseekernotes that brlcad_version.h gags at brlcad_version.h:84:22: error: conf/COUNT: No such file or directory when doing an out of dir build
20:34.49CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35348 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/dm-rtgl.h src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c): towards per-object point lists
20:40.07``Erikdoesn't for me O.o
20:46.18CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35349 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/load_g.c: tie_prep is called in the load multiplexer, no need to call it here
20:46.46CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35350 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Tweak getNodeChildren's regsub invocation to better remove matrices.
20:49.11CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35351 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Theses changes make it possible to undo the "make" command in Archer. Other minor cleanup of Archer.
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21:28.47CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35352 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/master/ (main.c master.c master.h tienet_master.c): basic daemon mode added.
21:32.07CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35353 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/adrt.h: spell out verb ID's for protocol debugging
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22:33.35CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35354 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c: Rearraged commandline arguments so they all work correctly.
23:22.10``Erika/clear
23:33.44Ralithstarseeker: manage to get it working?
23:40.23louipcyeah I'm getting this darned opengl non-detect too now
23:42.09CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35355 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: Avoid configure failure if configuring multiple times - reset OpenGL header checks.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090729

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090729

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02:00.23keltorhello - are there any good autocad->mged tutorials?
02:06.59brlcadkeltor: there is a pretty extensive mged tutorial series on the website
02:07.35brlcadthey start from the ground up and demonstrate basic 3D creation and editing techniques
02:08.16keltoryeah i've been reading it - i think i'm probably just impatient since i'm an autocad user since like 1988
02:10.05brlcadkeltor: as autocad is fairly grounded in a 2D centric approach and drafting operations at heart, you'll find a lot of differences
02:10.56brlcadwe're more in line with the likes of catia, unigraphics/nx, solidworks with a fundamentally 3D-based approach
02:11.28brlcadbrl-cad does have 2D facilities, but nowhere near on par with autocad, particularly for drafting purposes
02:12.11brlcad2D sketch objects and drafting-style hidden line drawings/renderings are about as close as we get to that domain
02:12.17keltori'm very ok with solidworks actually (as well as using inventor rather often)
02:12.31keltorin college that was the 3d cad of choice
02:12.46brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/w/images/4/44/Industry_Diagram.pdf covers the gist of where we're at
02:13.21brlcadwe're actively working on expanding to the left, but that's major long-term effort
02:13.59brlcadautocad is a CADD system, fwiw, to get some bearings
02:15.21brlcadthe three I mentioned are more squarely in the larger CAD domain (catia in particular), but that's still a huge domain and the focus is still often CAID purposes
02:15.33keltoryes I'm familar, i generally start with autocad for my base mechanicals designs, then move on to orcad, then proengineer
02:15.40keltorthen pspice
02:15.47keltorwork is never done ...
02:42.33brlcadheh, quite a fleet of licensing..
02:44.57louipchahah
02:45.28louipcyep small shops can't compete, so they pirate :P
02:54.41keltorvery true
02:54.59keltori'm fairly sure we license it all legally
02:55.02keltorlol
02:55.17keltorin some of the cases they are licensing patents from us so ...
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08:37.20*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.8 posted (20090511) || GSoC2009 Next Step: code code, type type, commit frequently while you work! update wiki/blog on daily progress.
08:38.14CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35359 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (6 files): First attempt at reinstalling the GUI. Not quite what we want yet, but awesome nevertheless.
08:41.44Ralithhehe
08:48.48CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35360 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (OgreGLWidget.cxx OgreGLWidget.h): Removed the last of the flickering.
08:49.59RalithIf anyone wants to see something neat, how would be a great time to check out g3d
09:02.44CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35361 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (MainWindow.cxx MainWindow.h): Restored widget layout.
09:06.18CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35362 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: Made event filtering better behaved.
09:48.19CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35363 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: Flipped the event filters the right way around. Not sure how it managed to work originally.
09:52.35CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35364 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/OgreGLWidget.h: Undefined some dangerous stuff brought in from GLX.
10:48.26CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35365 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (6 files): Partially restored camera controls.
11:18.24CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35366 10/rt^3/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): typing
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12:47.57brlcadRalith: awesome, can't wait to see it
12:48.30Ralithbrlcad: actually, bad news
12:48.37Ralithit turns out this approach massively rapes performance.
12:49.11Ralithrelies on glX/wglMakeCurrent which apparently sucks hugely.
12:50.23Ralithfrustrating; I just spent all day making it work >:|
12:51.02RalithI'm presuming that performance is going to matter on typically large models, so I'm going to go back and try some other approaches
12:51.15RalithI (finally!) got in contact with some knowledgable qt guys and got some suggestions.
12:51.21brlcadrapes performance in what regard?
12:52.03Raliththe 70% CPU on idle regard.
12:52.21brlcadone thing to keep in mind with regards to performance, one thing that will eventually have to be changed is a no-refresh idle loop
12:52.34brlcadso that you only refresh the display when it's invalidated/changed
12:52.42brlcadnot XX frames per second all the time
12:52.49RalithI'm told it might actually copy the entire GPU memory into and out of system memory each flip.
12:52.57Ralithbrlcad: okay, that's actually easy.
12:53.00Raliththat's Qt's default >_>
12:53.12Ralithjust gotta wire up the camera controls so they let Qt know that it needs redrawing
12:53.49Ralithwill try to get the OpenGL thing fixed properly before that, though.
12:53.56brlcadk
12:54.51RalithI'm correct in considering this kind of performance unacceptable, right?
12:55.24brlcadcopying all GPU memory on each frame, .. yeah :)
12:55.32Ralithheh
12:55.35Ralithkk
12:55.46Ralithyou might want to play around with the current revision anyway
12:55.48Ralithit's very pretty
12:56.01Ralithalthough somewhat impractical due to a bug I hadn't gotten around to squashing before discovering the issue
12:56.01brlcadscreenshot?
12:56.04Ralithokie
12:56.47brlcadif you can have something stabilized before tuesday, I can give a demo or show screenshots at siggraph
12:57.06Ralithooo!
12:57.19RalithI'll see what I can do
12:59.10Ralithbrlcad: http://isitloadedyet.com/~ralith/pretty.png
12:59.37Ralithwith a medium gray background color that might actually be somewhat practical.
13:00.44brlcadawesome! :)
13:00.49brlcadthat is looking good
13:00.58Ralith^^
13:01.16brlcad~Ralith++
13:01.37Ralithwhen I eventually get back to this point I'll put some background color on the widgets for the sake of reliable text readability, though
13:02.03Ralithas cool looking as fully transparent backgrounds are, I can see it being a real pain on, say, lit models with both dark and light areas
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13:54.53starseekerRalith: yeah, semi-transparent is usually the way to go
13:55.36louipchmm! neat
14:00.04starseekerRalith: you might jump into that thread and ask if those folks are seeing the same performance hit
14:00.23starseekerMarseyeah seems responsive
14:01.08elenahi starseeker.
14:01.13starseekerhey elena
14:01.17starseekerhow goes it?
14:01.18elenahow are you?
14:01.23elenavery good!
14:01.41elenaexcept i'm upset with g-vrml.
14:01.46elenait's very slow.
14:01.51starseekercan't say he's surprised
14:02.16elenai try to convert the havoc example and it's running for 45mins and hasn't stop
14:02.19brlcadmost of the tessellating exporters are very slow, and may not even successfully complete
14:02.40elena:(
14:02.49elenathat takes out one of the features.
14:02.53elenaof the site.
14:02.58brlcadhm, that's pretty long, even for havoc
14:03.04elenai finished rendering and conversion code.
14:03.24elenayou can upload a bunch of formats and they get converted to g
14:03.27brlcadi don't see a g-vrml running on .bz, was this local?
14:03.42elenathen they get rendered and they you can convert to other formats too
14:03.46brlcadcool
14:04.00brlcadthere does need to be some sort of awareness of the underlying geometry type
14:04.03elenaso i enabled vrml conversion. ppl with vrml plugins can see what they will get
14:04.12elenabefore downloading brlcad + model.
14:04.18brlcadso when you convert, you can determine whether it was faithful or lossy
14:04.56elenai'd say it's almost always lossy.
14:05.06elenabut the original file is always available.
14:05.07brlcade.g., g-vrml of havoc is lossy because it's going from primitives with CSG boolean operations to an evaluated polygonal mesh format
14:05.19brlcadright, most are lossy, but some aren't
14:05.40brlcadif havoc were a polygonal mesh to start with, then g-vrml would have been lossless
14:05.54elenabtw, should i put the code on the old server, or the new one?
14:06.13elenahow can I tell what type is it?
14:06.42brlcadthat's a good question
14:06.48elenaoh, btw, I'm thrilled about the raytracing stuff.
14:07.13brlcadsome you know what type it is simply by the file format, because some file formats only support one type
14:07.16elenaI create a file with matrices and commands for rt for all the raytracings and then with a single rt command i get all the images.
14:07.30elenaso i don't have to start it each time for each image.
14:07.54brlcade.g., stl, vrml, ply are all evaluated polygonal/triangle mesh explicit boundary representation formats
14:08.13brlcadwoot, way to use rt scripting :)
14:08.28elenahowever, I have one question.
14:08.40elenai've noticed that I have to do units mm
14:09.00elenaor the values in saveview will not match the values from the view command.
14:09.12elenabut there is still a small difference between them.
14:09.19elenaif i say saveview
14:09.42elenai'll get in the file something like eye_pt 1000 1000 1000 let's say.
14:09.59elenabut if I do view eye in mged i'll get something less
14:10.04elenalike 950 950 950
14:10.10brlcadhum
14:10.17elenai can provide a real example if you want.
14:10.19brlcadsounds like unexpected behavior to say the least
14:10.24brlcadpossibly a bug
14:10.36elenaah. ok.
14:11.15elenait's not a big difference, and the images look the same. I was just curios where could the difference came from.
14:11.20CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35367 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Tweak dbExpand in ArcherCore.
14:11.53elenainitially, i had cm units and besides the value diference there was also a 10x difference.
14:12.19elenag-vrml still working on havoc. 53mins.
14:12.37elenaand 13mb written. :(
14:16.37CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35368 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added a createWrapper and modified "make" and "cp" to call it. Also brought the "in" command into the undo framework.
14:16.59brlcadsee if it completes, it may
14:17.05elenaat this poin, user will probably want to download the much slower g file :)
14:17.11elenaslower => smaller.
14:18.03brlcadanother thing to consider given it takes that long is that you could queue up conversions to happen idlely in the background when a geometry is uploaded, so once you have the vrml, you don't have to convert it again
14:18.32elenai did this.
14:18.50elenaall convertions and raytracing is done in a queue.
14:18.51brlcadotherwise, you just tell them "thanks for your request .. it's been queued for processing .. eta [random] hours" :)
14:19.12elenathe submission process is not blocked.
14:19.53brlcadfwiw, havoc is particularly expensive to convert because it's fully CSG
14:19.59brlcadthere's a lot of booleans that have to be evaluated
14:20.26elenaso i picked the wrong one to mess with :D
14:20.40elenathe truck.g was quite fast.
14:20.44elenaabout 10s
14:21.26brlcadyeah, truck is tiny in comparison
14:21.38brlcadeven havoc is pretty small compared to a full vehicle
14:22.40elenaabout the web server? should I start uploading on the current server?
14:29.48brlcadwherever you've been uploading, I'd just keep on there
14:29.59brlcadso old is fine, or new if you already started
14:30.26elenaok. old it is then.
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14:34.08elenais there a doc about the rt commands?
14:34.24elenai only know the ones from the saveview file.
14:35.37brlcadmm..
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14:36.02CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35369 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/scripts/ (7.14.txt generic.txt): New tcl script output format (raytracing is done outside the script in a separate run).
14:36.30brlcadi don't think so
14:37.32brlcadbut you can see the list of commands in http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/do.c?view=markup around line 1009
14:37.48elenathank you.
14:39.39CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35370 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/ (brlcad.inc brlcad.module): Updated code to raytrace all images with a rt script (prevents PHP from crashing due to processes overlap). Updated code for conversion.
14:41.00elenaok. then I know almost half of them. ;)
14:44.49starseekerwonders if anyone has attempted to build BRL-CAD on minix 3
14:47.54CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35371 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/light_download_count/ (5 files): Lightweight download counter custom made module (works with private and public downloads)
15:04.59brlcadheh, I have a minix 3 disk sitting right in front of me
15:05.35brlcadone of the minix devs was at the mentor summit and was pretty interested in getting brl-cad working
15:10.52CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35372 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/.htaccess: .htaccess setup for tracking downloads
15:14.26CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35373 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/themes/fireflystreamcom/ (node-model.tpl.php style.css template.php): Custom model themeing
15:28.16*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-75-169.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
15:33.02CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35374 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
15:33.04CIA-79BRL-CAD: new tool that reports summary information about a given geometry file such as
15:33.06CIA-79BRL-CAD: object types used, classes of geometry representations used, and more. most
15:33.08CIA-79BRL-CAD: usefully for the web interface to be able to introspect on a geometry file to be
15:33.10CIA-79BRL-CAD: able to classify and compare imported geometry.
15:42.18CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35375 10/brlcad/trunk/ (14 files in 8 dirs): Rename bbsize to bb, add -c option to create bounding box, fix NEWS item to refer to bb not bbsize
16:11.09CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35376 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/themes/fireflystreamcom/style.css: Fixed slogan theme bug.
16:25.32CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35377 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c:
16:25.34CIA-79BRL-CAD: Added support for individual person regions in the makeArmy command.
16:25.36CIA-79BRL-CAD: Each human model's region is numbered in the same manor the parts are numberd:
16:25.38CIA-79BRL-CAD: Body.r0.... Body.r12.... etc.
16:32.44CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35378 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/3dm/3dm-g.cpp: Print out some more type identifications to get a better idea of what exactly is contained in the 3dm m_object_table.
16:47.22CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r35379 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/surfaceintersect.cpp: Implemented surfacesurfaceintersect which facilitates finding starting points of intersection, walking intersections and removing starting points once they've been crossed.
16:48.04elenag-vrml took about 4h on havoc
16:50.57starseekerhow  does the result look?
16:51.09elena40mb files.
16:51.11starseekeris actually a bit surprised it succeeded
16:51.20elenamy browser plugin hangs when loading it :)
16:51.21starseekerdoes it visually resemble havoc?
16:51.25starseekerah
16:51.32elenai 'll try again.
16:51.40elenato load it.
16:51.45louipc:O
16:51.52starseekermight try a standalone viewer
16:52.01starseekerseeks edibles
16:52.57louipcwhy isn't a screenshot enough? :P
16:53.05louipcerr a small render
16:53.17elenait is. i was just curios how long it will take.
16:53.19louipcor a few small renders
16:53.21louipcah ok
16:53.43louipcit bugs me how every application is being thrown onto the web these days :P
16:54.23starseekeris old school - don't want my apps in a browser
16:55.18louipcespecially when it comes to flash haha
16:56.09louipchopefully that'll be disappear as html5 support improves though
16:57.46elenai have freewrl. doesn't seem to handle havoc.vrml very well.
16:58.17CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35380 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c:
16:58.21CIA-79BRL-CAD: Added individual bounding boxes to makeArmy command. No hollow region support yet.
16:58.27CIA-79BRL-CAD: Named as such: Box.r#
17:02.16*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@74.Red-83-42-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
17:03.43*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=matthew@206-248-128-129.dsl.teksavvy.com)
17:05.48CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35381 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/3dm/3dm-g.cpp: Few more formatting tweaks in debug output of 3dm-g. Names such as '(#101029) PIPE' are a problem for e * in MGED - maybe such things should be 'cleaned up' a little?
17:10.45brlcadstarseeker: surprised there's not a polymorphic way to dump/print the types -- should just need a parent type
17:11.11brlcadi.e., there should be a polymorphic way :)
17:14.40starseekerbrlcad: probably - I was just doing a quick extension of what Dave had originally done
17:14.54starseekerin the end, the whole thing will probably go away
17:15.22starseekerneeds to figure out what to do with InstanceRef
17:15.38brlcaddave was not adept in c++, so caution
17:15.53starseekerah, k
17:21.29CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35382 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/fivestar/ (89 files in 17 dirs): Fivestar update (1.16) - fixed average votes display bug
17:34.01starseekerblinks in surprise as 3dm-g on the openmoko.3dm largely succeeds this time...
17:34.14starseekeraaaaaaand kills the raytrace by asking for too much memory
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17:45.42talcitehey starseeker
17:45.56elenahi talcite
17:46.03talcitedid you get my message last night about the macros?
17:46.14talcitehi elena
17:49.02brlcadtalcite: thanks for the RFE, think I have a working solution that should help
17:49.22*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net)
17:49.22talcitebrlcad: not a problem. Thanks for fixing it quickly
17:49.34brlcadnot technically a bug, though, fwiw ;)
17:49.52talcitebrlcad: I think there might be an issue with fedora's compatibility with the configure script
17:50.15brlcadhow so?
17:50.31talcitebrlcad: the macro enabling the include for Xutils.h doesn't get enabled by the configure script
17:50.51brlcadI read a bit of the log from many hours back -- there are a few options that should help package configuration/integration
17:51.01talciteit's searching in /usr/X11, but that doesn't exist in fedora
17:51.10brlcadthe macro -- which macro?
17:51.23brlcadwe don't do much X11 testing directly, we rely on automake's tests
17:51.29talciteHAVE_X11_XLIB_H
17:51.40brlcadthat's not a macro :)
17:51.54talciteahh, precompiler directive? I never know the proper term for them heh
17:52.13brlcadyeah, that's a preprocessor define
17:52.30brlcadset by configure when it finds a header
17:53.01talciteanyways, the define doesn't get set by the configure script, and I do have the header
17:53.36talciteit's in /usr/include/X11, not /usr/X11
17:53.42louipcI don't have /usr/X11 either
17:53.46talcitehmm
17:53.58louipcseemed to work alright for me
17:54.14talciteI wonder why I'm failing this test then
17:54.41talcitemy bash isn't great. This configure script is really complex
17:54.46brlcadtalcite: back up some ..
17:54.55brlcadwhat is your goal?
17:55.11talcitebrlcad: to compile it first, then to package it from source
17:55.46brlcadokay, so then what is your configure line
17:56.13talcite./configure --disable-jove --with-tclconfig=/usr/lib64/ --with-tkconfig=/usr/lib64/
17:56.38brlcadoof, tcl/tk overrides are a bear ..
17:56.40brlcadokay
17:57.02brlcadso that means it's going to try to autodetect nearly everything else given you're not using --enable-all or --disable-all
17:57.22talcite--enable-all? hmm
17:57.23brlcadso configure completes presumably, yes? then compile fails at some point?
17:57.30talcitebrlcad: yes
17:57.42talcitethe XVisualInfo struct isn't defined
17:57.49talcitebecause Xutils.h isn't being included
17:58.05brlcadso then can you pastebin up your configure output?
17:58.15talcitesure
17:59.12talcitebrlcad: http://fpaste.org/paste/20290
18:07.32brlcadhm, looks like your version of AC_PATH_XTRA is not setting the have_x variable
18:07.41brlcadwhat's your version of autoconf?
18:11.22talcitebrlcad: 2.63
18:12.08talcitebrlcad: sorry I'm not very familiar with AC. I'm not running autoconf am I? I just ran the configure script
18:12.55brlcadautoconf is run during autoreconf or autogen.sh in order to generate the configure script
18:13.05brlcadthat's probably why - you're using a very recent version
18:13.13brlcadthey probably changed the interface slightly
18:13.47talcitebrlcad: but I've never run autoreconf or autogen.sh. Should I have?
18:13.49brlcadedit configure.ac and delete the three lines that are wrapped in have_x
18:13.56brlcadoh!
18:14.22talciteI just ran the configure script that was already present in the tar.bz2
18:14.28brlcadhold on then.. that could be the issue -- AC_PATH_XTRA needs to be regenerated for your newer system
18:14.31brlcadright
18:14.33talciteahh
18:14.58brlcadbasically an autoconf 'bug' for loose definitions of bugs, but a problem nonetheless
18:15.48brlcadthe configure script you generate on one system 'should' work on any other system, but that's only true 99% of the time as there are bugs and updates that are required for newer configurations
18:16.00brlcadtry running "sh autogen.sh"
18:16.12brlcadshould take just a couple minutes
18:16.20brlcadthen re-run configure
18:16.40brlcadthen look for HAVE_X11 in include/brlcad_config.h
18:16.48talcitesounds good. I'll give that a shot
18:17.02talcitethanks for the help
18:20.32brlcadI have a change that might avoid the problem down the road
18:20.44brlcadbut will still be good to know if that fixes it
18:20.59talcitebrlcad: k. I'm running configure now
18:22.49CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35383 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: don't use/assume have_x will be defined. just do a header test right here. might need more cppflags logic to search in the dirs we just found from ac_path_xtra
18:23.20talcitebrlcad: yup, it works now
18:23.36brlcadcool
18:23.37louipcsweet
18:23.41talciteI'll try compiling, but it should work
18:23.53talciteyeah, that was quite the bug =S. I've never run into that before
18:24.05brlcadso there's some magic that 2.63 added in for it to properly detect X11 and set have_x for your system
18:25.03brlcadcommit should hopefully avoid the issue, but all we can do on our end is try to be sure to use at least 2.63 when generating configure for our source tarballs
18:25.06brlcadcome release time
18:25.32louipcwhen's the next one planned for?
18:25.36talcitewhat system do you do the compiling on?
18:26.06brlcadlouipc: any day, hopefully before friday
18:26.12louipccool!
18:26.26talcitehaha should I wait to do the packaging then?
18:26.30brlcadwe missed two iterations unfortunately
18:26.36louipctalcite: good idea :D
18:27.04talcitealright. Let me get the hang of the ogl and optimize builds in the mean time
18:27.05brlcadtalcite: heh, not really -- at best all that should change is the patch number in your script
18:27.27brlcadyou don't really need ogl, don't recommend it for a release configuration
18:27.33talciteahh ok
18:27.54brlcadit's good on a per-system basis but there are some systems that have really bad behavior
18:28.19brlcaddoesn't limit functionality or performance on our end, it's just the protocol we talk in our display management system on the backend
18:28.29talciteoh ok
18:28.31louipcI guess the user should decide what to use then
18:28.37brlcadX11 is just fine (and can actually out-perform in many cases)
18:28.51talcitehaha well then no reason to use ogl
18:28.59brlcadnot yet
18:29.05louipcheheh
18:29.13talciteyeah, I heard Ralith just got Qt embeds working
18:29.15brlcadwe've got a dev working on a nice shaded display interface that is really snazzy
18:29.23brlcadand it uses ogl with ray-tracing
18:29.28talcitehaha sweet
18:29.30louipcI want to get mged in the framebuffer :D
18:30.32brlcadtalcite: yeah, though that's for longer-term development effort -- new gui interface that will likely supplant current in 4 years or so (prototype much earlier than that though)
18:30.59brlcadprototype hopefully before this year's end
18:31.14talcitewhoa. no kidding. You're not worried that Qt will deprecate the API call?
18:31.26brlcadnot at all
18:31.47brlcadit's under continuous development -- if they change things we'll be changing right along
18:32.08talciteI see
18:32.12brlcadit'll simply take that long to bring the interface up to a capability level on par with mged/archer
18:32.33brlcadplan is mged -> archer -> new gui
18:33.03brlcadarcher is about ready to demo now, nearing alpha stage, and will carry the gui for at least a couple years
18:33.08brlcadwhile the new one gets worked on
18:33.25talcitewhen do you think Archer will be released?
18:33.27brlcadrolling updates, can't abandon existing userbase
18:33.47brlcadthat one should go full alpha before year's end
18:33.47talciteahh
18:34.06brlcadbeta later in the year
18:34.13brlcadmaybe final by end of 2010
18:34.23talciteheh you guys seem to have a pretty strong development timeline
18:34.34brlcadaround that time, new gui should be about ready for alpha
18:39.36talciteblam. another build error =D
18:40.12brlcadpaste?
18:40.28talcitecoming up
18:40.35brlcadthere are a few known issues with the 7.14.8 build that have since been fixed
18:40.41talcitehttp://fpaste.org/paste/20296
18:40.42brlcadparticularly with regards to mixed system installs
18:40.46talciteit's a java error
18:41.10brlcadwow, that's a new one
18:41.15talciteI hope it's not because I'm using openJDK instead of sunJava
18:41.43brlcadyeah, looks like some bug in fop or java
18:41.47louipcjava!
18:41.55louipccrazy
18:41.59brlcadthe good news is that the build succeeded
18:42.06brlcadthat part of the build is generating documentation
18:42.10talciteahh it's just documentation stuff
18:42.33louipcI have openjdk too
18:42.35talcitewell that's minor, but I should probably fix it anyways
18:42.37brlcadcan add --disable-documentation to turn it off
18:43.26talcitehmm... is the documentation useful though?
18:43.45louipcI didn't get any pdfs though..
18:43.49brlcadgiven xsltproc processed the first xml file just fine, it may be a typo in build_pattern.xml ( starseeker )
18:44.01talcitehaha
18:44.17louipcah I don't have 'fop' installed
18:44.23brlcadah, my bad .. it processed the xml fine to html, just not to .fo for fop
18:44.31brlcadso probably not
18:44.50brlcadtalcite: does fop work for you?
18:45.15brlcadand of course the documentation is useful
18:45.17brlcadjust not necessary :)
18:45.21talcitebrlcad: hmm I've never used fop before
18:45.35talciteit seems to work more or less
18:45.38brlcadthere are extensive docs on the website, and other docs that get installed too
18:46.10brlcaddunno what to say on that one -- looks like an fop issue
18:46.15louipchtml docs are good enough
18:46.47brlcadcould try running /usr/bin/fop build_pattern.fo -pdf build_pattern.pdf manually
18:46.58talciteyup, that's my plan so far
18:47.05talciteI need to find it first though
18:47.31brlcaddoc/docbook/articles/build_pattern/en
18:47.42talcitethanks
18:49.16talcitenope, same problem
18:49.54talcitewait, there's something weird
18:50.05talcitebuild_pattern.fo doesn't exist
18:50.26talcite[matthew@desktop en]$ pwd
18:50.26talcite/home/matthew/Download/brlcad-7.14.8/doc/docbook/articles/build_pattern/en
18:50.26talcite[matthew@desktop en]$ ls
18:50.26talcitebuild_pattern.html  build_pattern.xml  Makefile  Makefile.am  Makefile.in
18:51.12talcitebrlcad: and I'm getting the same error as the build_pattern.fo command
18:52.01CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35384 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c:
18:52.03CIA-79BRL-CAD: Made it where the makeArmy command now places all humans into Crowd.c combination, for easy access to all
18:52.06CIA-79BRL-CAD: persons.
18:52.34brlcadright, the .fo is what it generates
18:52.55brlcader, rather -- hmm
18:53.14brlcaddoes this generate the .fo?  XML_CATALOG_FILES=../../../../../doc/docbook/catalog.xml /usr/bin/xsltproc -nonet -xinclude -o build_pattern.fo ../../../../../doc/docbook/resources/standard/xsl/fo/docbook.xsl build_pattern.xml
18:53.43brlcadaccording to the log, it did
18:55.42talcitehmm that's strange. The file isn't there
18:55.54talcitemaybe fop removes the input file?
18:57.40talcitehmm no... well anyways I've created the file, but it still NPEs
18:59.06brlcadyeah, sounds like an fop bug if xsltproc generates it correctly
18:59.16brlcador maybe a version mismatch between the two
18:59.30brlcador a problem with java
18:59.40brlcadeither way, --disable-documentation :)
19:00.05talcitehaha I guess it works temporarily. I'll probably need to get it fixed before the fedora repo maintainers will allow it for inclusion though
19:01.12talcitelets see if it's still an issue in the next release
19:09.46brlcadhm? you mean hold up our inclusion because fop doesn't work?  that's kinda silly
19:10.30brlcadonly thing we can do on our end is default it to off so you don't need to specify the disable
19:12.32talcitehmm. I guess I could always just build the documentation package seperately when fop works again
19:14.52talciteis there a listing of configuration options?
19:15.18brlcadINSTALL file
19:15.29talcitethanks
19:15.41louipc./configure --help too
19:18.35talciteis there a reason the debug symbols are enabled by default?
19:20.19brlcadyep, for debuggability, stack traces
19:20.38brlcadwe have automatic crash reports that can get generated if something goes horribly wrong
19:20.43talcitebrlcad: Is there a big hit on performance if it's enabled?
19:20.52brlcadnope, not at all
19:20.59talciteahh ok. So I should leave them in for the package
19:21.13brlcad--enable-optimized will give a huge performance difference
19:21.19brlcadnearly 2x on rendering performance
19:21.26talciteyup. I just set that configure flag
19:21.48brlcadit'll also make compilation take 2x ;)
19:21.55talcitebrlcad: you mentioned there's a couple flags that make packaging easier?
19:21.57talcite=/
19:22.05talciteoh well. I'm working from home today
19:23.24brlcadfor packaging systems --disable-almost-everything and then specifically enabling anything you won't have
19:23.37brlcad(like tkhtml3 and tnt)
19:23.43talciteoh I see
19:24.20talcitesounds good to me
19:24.44CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35385 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added mirror to the undo framework. Tweaked killWrapper.
19:25.13brlcadwishes bob would push those wrappers down into libged proper
19:27.16``Erikmebbe if you jerked a couple out from under him, he'd get the idea?
19:27.21CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35386 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/brlcad.module: Fix metadata editing bug (only editors can edit it now)
19:29.01``Erikgrumbles a bit
19:33.52talcitebrlcad: does --disable-almost-everything also disable the --with-x11 etc?
19:34.08brlcadtalcite: no
19:34.26brlcadit only disables the various --disable-*-build options, as listed in INSTALL
19:34.39talciteahh ok
19:34.47brlcadthe with flags merely specify how/where to find system services
19:35.17louipcdoes it automatically check for --disable* flags?
19:37.19louipcah ok I see :D
19:38.19louipcoh darn I did add tkhtml3 in that switch hah
19:43.04talciteargh I forgot to make -j2 =/
19:44.42starseekerjust Ctrl-c and restart
19:44.47starseekerit will pick up where it left off
19:44.59talciteahh cool
19:45.25talcitehmm that's right. I forgot make can do that
19:47.37talcitewhoa. I'm getting 4x performance after --enable-optimized
19:47.43talcitecool
19:48.19louipchow long did the build take?
19:49.35brlcadtalcite: it's interruptible
19:50.06talcitebuild took about 30 mins, but only because I forgot to use make -j2 =D
19:51.54louipcpretty quick
19:53.23talcitelouipc: it's a fairly powerful system by the standards a couple years ago. Core 2 duo, 2 gigs of ram,
19:53.40louipcnice
19:53.49louipctakes me 3hr to build :(
19:53.52talcite=o
19:54.11talcitewhy not upgrade? you can get a much more powerful system than mine for $500 these days
19:55.36louipcI'm cheap, and I don't do that much compiling I guess
19:55.49louipcor I'm waiting for usb3.0 hahh
19:56.06louipcit'll be out soonish
19:56.57talcitelouipc: hmm... well you can probably put usb 3.0 on any system with a PCIE 4x slot
19:57.16louipcthat's cheating!
19:57.39talcitethey'll release add on cards. It'll be pretty expensive for you to buy a usb 3.0 system right when they come out
19:57.54louipchmm yeah probably
19:57.59talciteand after they've come out, it'll be at least 2 years till they're coming off lease
19:58.14talciteoh, off lease computers are the secret to getting a good deal
19:58.26louipcwhat are those?
19:58.42talciteI got a machine capable of a quad core processor, with 2 gigs of ram. for under $300 last year for my work
19:59.02louipcI just bought some parts and threw them in a box
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19:59.18talcitelouipc: businesses and governments usually lease their computers. When the leases expire, they get sold as second hand equipment
19:59.26louipcohh nice
19:59.31talcitebut they're usually in great shape, so it's really cheap
20:00.30talcitelouipc: here: http://www.itxchange.com/itxchange/product.asp?part_no=6073-AR4-B3-06&SEORewriteUrlSrc=Website
20:00.50talciteyou should check out that site. They're probably the largest supplier of off-lease equipment in the world
20:01.18talciteif you look around more, I'm sure you can find one that has a good chipset and lots of room for upgrades.
20:01.23louipcdamn that's pretty cheap
20:02.34talciteyup
20:02.46talciteit's more powerful than my current system if you don't count the graphics card
20:03.06talciteplus they're all fairly linux compatible since they're IBM/lenovo
20:05.06talcitemy suggestion is to find a tower model with a motherboard/chipset that takes the quad core processors, like Q35. It gives you a good upgrade path in the future. All of these boards also take up to 16 gb usually
20:05.26talcitethey'll also have enough Sata ports to give you raid capability
20:05.41talciteused to do IT purchasing for an NGO
20:05.59talcitehad no money, but needed performance =P
20:21.46CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35387 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h:
20:21.48CIA-79BRL-CAD: subdivision size factors can apparently be disabled without impacting the
20:21.50CIA-79BRL-CAD: raytracing, and VASTLY speeding up prep and lowering memory used. With these
20:21.52CIA-79BRL-CAD: changes, able to raytrace 900+ breps (some of which have in turn hundreds of
20:21.54CIA-79BRL-CAD: surfaces) in a surprisingly reasonable time.
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20:32.21CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1590 10/wiki/More_Changelog: /* July 7 - Today */
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20:41.28brlcad~elena++
20:42.32brlcadis curious what an arb8 comparison looks like for the various forms it can exist as now
20:44.11brlcadarb8, nmg, bot, brep (new nurbs), bspline (old nurbs), vol/dsp/ebm (1x1 cell) ...
20:45.09brlcadstarseeker: ran across my SPM08 notes .. some good tidbits I'd forgotten -- see if I can post up something
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20:53.03talcitecrap... I'm failing the make test now =P
20:54.20brlcadtalcite: that's not necessarily anything you're doing wrong
20:54.32brlcadour tests are more meant for devs under controlled environments/settings
20:54.39talciteoh ok
20:54.40brlcadthere are plenty that will cause test failures
20:54.56brlcad"make benchmark" is a good validation
20:55.17talciteI see. Well there wasn't any problems with that
20:55.21talcitemake install didn't go well either though
20:55.25brlcadrunning "mged" and having it start up a gui is a good validation
20:55.38brlcadmake install didn't work?
20:55.43talcitenope
20:55.50brlcadneed a lil more info :)
20:55.52talcitesomething about overwriting a file that it just created
20:55.59talcitejust a sec
20:57.08talcite/usr/bin/install: will not overwrite just-created `/home/matthew/Download/temp/share/man/man3/librle.3' with `librle.3'
20:57.33talcitehttp://fpaste.org/paste/20314
20:59.13brlcadlooks
21:00.53talciteok, I'll brb. I need a quick shower before I head out
21:02.56brlcadahh, damn -- yeah that issue is fixed on head
21:03.06brlcadthere's a duplicate entry for librle.3 in 7.14.8
21:04.28brlcadtalcite: can see starseeker's edit on 34667 at http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/src/other/libutahrle/Makefile.am?view=log to see the 'fix'
21:13.20CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35388 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/clone.c: Modified ged_clone (v5 only) to return the name of the clone, as before, as well as a list of all cloned objects.
21:14.29talciteargh. I really need to learn how to use sourceforge better
21:14.33talciteI can't get a diff from it
21:15.07talcitetheir link to 'patch' gives me some text, but then you can't download from that URL
21:16.11CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35389 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added clone to Archer's undo framework.
21:16.53louipcseems to work for me
21:19.34talcite=S
21:19.46talciteblah ok, I need to try this later tonight. I've got to head out for a dinner
21:37.44CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35390 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/3dm/3dm-g.cpp: All red for all regions is getting boring - make it random until we figure out if there is color info in there and how to extract it.
21:44.55Ralithstarseeker: I'm told the performance issue is a direct result of makeCurrent, and thus rather unavoidable
21:45.12RalithI have an idea for another approach that's just as good, though
21:45.17Ralithbased on the overlay context
21:45.21starseekercool
21:45.36Ralithit requires OpenGL impl. support but hopefully that's widespread
21:50.14starseekerah, there we go - much better when it isn't all red:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/openmoko_subset.png
21:52.29Ralithoooh :D
21:52.40Ralithsince when was NURBS so far along?
21:53.25starseekera while back now - last major user visible enhancement was when I got the bounding box building to respect trims
21:53.51Ralithpretty nice
21:54.02Ralithwhat's with that USB port on the bottom of the shot though?
21:54.18starseekerthe model as imported has a lot of overlaps
21:54.32starseekernot to mention geometry that doesn't seem to make sense as part of the phone
21:54.48Ralithso it's just oddly positioned in the source files?
21:54.50starseekerall we're doing right now in 3dm-g is sucking in each brep as a region
21:54.55starseekerI think so
21:55.05Ralithkk
21:55.12starseekernot totally sure
21:55.23Ralithcould always break out whatever it is that uses 3dm natively
21:55.38starseekerRhino
21:55.54brlcadstarseeker: holy fuck, awesome
21:56.03brlcadpardon my language, that's freaking cool
21:56.15starseeker:-)
21:56.23starseekerhere's the wireframe underlay:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/openmoko_underlay.png
21:56.49starseekerlooks a heck of a lot better when it isn't all red
21:57.06brlcadgreat gallery shot
21:57.09Ralithooh
21:57.09Ralithpretty
21:57.12brlcadshould add an openmoko section
21:57.22Ralithyeah
21:57.34starseekerheh - start with the historical iges wireframe, and up to the present :-)
21:57.38Ralithso is the NURBS stuff considered to be largely stable?
21:57.49brlcadgetting there
21:58.07Ralithlooks very solid
21:58.17brlcadstill working on improved import paths (3dm and step)
21:58.24brlcadbut ray-tracing is looking pretty good
22:00.37*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-185-57.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
22:14.54CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35391 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/ (brlcad.inc scripts/7.14.txt scripts/generic.txt): Implement individual raytracing of models.
23:12.57Ralithbrlcad: hm, none of my ideas are working out :/
23:13.14RalithI could just get lazy redraw working, minimizing heavy CPU usage to when smooth animation is taking place.
23:13.15*** join/#brlcad archivist_ (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
23:14.43Ralithmaybe I should just bite the bullet and wrap input
23:17.46*** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
23:57.14Ralithwhat's the easiest way to dig through past revisions' code?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090730

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090730

00:00.07Ralithwaaaaaaaait a minute
00:00.09Ralithcompares performance
00:04.09Ralithbrlcad: I'm not sure if this approach is actually so badly performing after all; I'm getting less than twicethe CPU usage of the non-embedded approach.
00:04.36RalithI think perhaps I'll just slap lazy redraw in there and call it good ^^
00:11.00starseekerthinks that sounds like a good idea
00:11.37starseekerif animation is taking place, you might be able to "special case" things...
00:20.17*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
00:23.47Ralithooh, idea
00:24.19Ralitha further optimization that could be made might be to only swap contexts when it's known for sure that Qt is going to render something
00:31.04louipcis this gonna require a core 2 quad? :P
00:31.29Ralithlouipc: no, I'm running on an ancient single core athlon64 :P
00:31.35louipcawesoem
00:33.05``Erikerm
00:33.26Ralitherm?
00:33.28``Erikpets his 650mhz pIII, 850mhz athlon tbird and 1.2ghz athlon
00:33.33Ralith:P
00:33.48``ErikI think one of the machines I use at work is 187mhz
00:33.54Ralithwhat for?
00:33.56``Erik(ok, I use it as a bookend, but it's providing a useful service!)
00:34.01Ralithhehe.
00:34.08``Erikkeeps mah books from fallin'
00:34.17Ralithfortunately, I don't think BRL-CAD was ever expected to run on bookends.
00:34.24``Erikum
00:35.16``ErikBRL-CAD works(ed) on vax11/780
00:35.35``ErikI think it's original development was on a pdp-11 running 43BSD
00:36.00Raliththose weren't being used as bookends though ^^
00:36.26``Erikno, more like superginormous paperweights
00:37.26``Erikjust pushed a new core duo 3ghz box under his desk and dropped fbsd7.2 on it at work, was impressed with how fast that little thing is
00:44.50Ralithcould do with one of those
00:45.05RalithI'm long overdue for an upgrade
00:49.25CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35392 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/OgreGLWidget.cxx: Minor optimization
00:56.13*** part/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-75-169.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
02:30.21starseekerRalith: is Ogre set up for lazy redraw?
02:39.41*** join/#brlcad mike111 (n=mike@cadil21.kaist.ac.kr)
02:39.47mike111hi all
02:40.46mike111can brlcad export in STEP format?
02:43.32Ralithstarseeker: not yet, working on that.
02:44.08Ralithhm
02:51.15CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35393 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (MainWindow.cxx OgreGLWidget.cxx): First (broken) attempt at lazy Ogre redraw.
02:51.44starseekermike111: no, not yet
02:54.23CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35394 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/OgreGLWidget.cxx: Scrapped unnecessary include
02:56.23mike111starseeker: is there a way to output an `ars' shape in STL such that it surface (skin) is defined by a dense mesh?.
02:56.49starseekertry facetizing with really tight tolerances is the only thing that comes to mind
02:57.10Ralithstarseeker: did you see the screenie I uploaded for brlcad this morning?
02:57.20starseekeryes - awesome!
02:57.27mike111star: how do I do that
02:57.39Ralith^^
02:58.08starseekercheck and see if the g-stl converter has options - brlman g-stl
02:58.32starseekerhave to try a few and see if one gets you what you want
03:02.23*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=matthew@206-248-128-129.dsl.teksavvy.com)
03:11.37CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35395 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ogre.cfg: Deleted the no-longer-necessary ogre.cfg
03:28.14talcitebrlcad: I'm still having the same problem with librle being duplicated
03:28.20talcitethe makefile.am only has 1 entry now though
03:31.45talciteerr wait... do I need to run autogen.sh again?
03:37.08CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35396 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (OgreGLWidget.cxx OgreGLWidget.h): Working, but flickery, lazy redraw.
04:00.11talcitehmm. I may have run into another make install bug. Even though I put the prefix as /home/matt/Download/temp, the tkhtml3 lib still tries to install in /usr/lib/tkhtml3
04:07.16talcitethat's kind of funky. Why is there both an exec_prefix and a prefix in the Makefile?
04:07.45starseekertalcite: there's something funky about it - it doesn't do that on a Mac, apparently
04:08.03talcitestarseeker: did you use a prefix to configure it?
04:08.07starseekeryes
04:08.11talcitehmm
04:08.20talcitestarseeker: http://fpaste.org/paste/20357
04:08.23starseekerwe need to revisit the tkhtml3 build process
04:08.41starseekeryeah
04:08.50starseekerhas seen and heard of that before
04:09.16talcitehmmm
04:09.27louipcwell, you just need to add something to auto detect tkhtml3 I think
04:09.42starseekerI need to discuss that with brlcad - there is a fundamental problem when installing a new tcl/tk package on a system tcl/tk install without permissions for that install's standard package directories
04:09.59talcitewell the offending line is here: exec_prefix = /usr
04:10.18starseekerhmm
04:10.22louipcstarseeker: yeah I tried alpha16 vs CVS. CVS works while alpha16 doesn't hehe
04:10.23starseekerpulls up the makefile
04:10.36talcite72 in src/other/tkhtml3
04:10.46starseekeryeah, tkhtml3 isn't what you'd call actively developed
04:11.15talcitestarseeker: so wait, what's the problem with tkhtml3 anyways? It's not already included in this system
04:11.22louipctalcite: hah permission denied! funky..
04:11.27talciteyup
04:11.31louipcoooh I see
04:11.44talcitelouipc: and it should be denied. I don't want it to put it in /usr/lib
04:11.47starseekertalcite: what do you mean?
04:11.48louipcright
04:12.06louipchmm I hadn't had troubles building it bundled before though
04:12.15talcitestarseeker: you mentioned earlier that there's a problem with using a new tcl/tk package, but tkhtml3 isn't installed
04:12.22starseekertkhtml3 is attempting to use the TEA extensions to build like a "normal" tcl/tk package
04:12.28talciteoh
04:12.58starseekernaturally, if you're using a system tcl/tk it's going to try to install it where it needs to to make "package require Tkhtml 3.0" work
04:13.25talciteoh I get it
04:13.37talcitehmm. so that's why the prefix didn't work
04:13.57talcitecrap. How am I supposed to test this out then? =/
04:14.05starseekerso what needs to happen, in theory, is to have a local additional directory where we can install tcl/tk packages and then point the wish/bwish guys to
04:14.32starseekertalcite: can you install tkhtml3 separately from brlcad?
04:14.51starseekerand get it in the system tcl/tk?
04:14.55talcitestarseeker: that's what I'm looking to do right now. I don't know if there's a package that already exists though
04:15.09starseekeror, alternately, just do --enable-all and use a local tcl/tk for BRL-CAD
04:15.34starseekerhas a system tcl/tk install but always uses --enable-all - it's just easier
04:16.17starseekeroriginally had hacked it together to build like tkimg currently does, but I got chased off of that approach
04:16.18talcitestarseeker: hmm. It might be, but I think that would be basis for the repo maintainers to block the package
04:16.48starseekertalcite: I know.  The gentoo guys went around and around and around with that one
04:16.57talcite=/
04:17.08starseekercan you make a tkhtml3 package and get that accepted?
04:17.33Ralithtalcite: for the sake of the USB image you *could* just uninstall system TCL for a bit :P
04:17.47louipcsilly policies
04:17.54talciteRalith: yeah, the usb image is no problem. I can blow away system tcl/tk
04:18.01talciteRalith: repos, not so much unfortunately
04:18.09starseekerlouipc: Oh, I understand why they do it but the problem with them is it's an "all or nothing" result
04:18.28talcitestarseeker: maybe. It looks like a tkhtml rpm existed at one point, but was dropped though
04:18.58starseekerwith something like BRL-CAD, which has patches to tcl/tk that we KNOW we need and that the main trunk hasn't incorporated yet (or even if they have, the package on the system is two versions behind)...
04:19.09starseekertalcite: mm, figures
04:19.29louipcI think talcite is fairly up to date
04:19.41louipche's got gcc 4.4.0 after all
04:19.47starseekerlouipc: I was thinking system tcl/tk
04:19.48talcitewell Fedora isn't usually a problem for these kinds of things. F11 is pretty recent
04:20.12talciteyeah, I'm on tcl8.5, not 8.6
04:20.18louipcOH
04:20.21louipcodd
04:20.29talciteit's the most recent in the fedora repos
04:20.42starseekerthey usually run a version or so back
04:20.57starseekerhas had tcl/tk upgrades bust things - usually they want to be a bit careful
04:21.16starseekerwhich makes sense, but leaves us high and dry if we NEED something in the newest version
04:21.35louipcI guess 8.6 was a bit special, but it's been out for awhile though...
04:21.37talciteyeah. I don't think they make major upgrades unless the distro version is changing, i.e. F11 to F12
04:21.46starseekerand we do tweak the default tcl/tk trees, it's an adventure every time we upgrade and try to be sure we re-merge all the changes
04:21.52talciteyou need someone to sponsor the update afaik
04:22.19talcite=/ why do we make all these custom changes? does the trunk not provide enough functionality?
04:23.05louipcso looks like you have to bundle everything
04:23.05starseekerchecks the tcl/tk revision history... been a while...
04:23.23starseekerwell, you CAN run system and it will usually work
04:23.48louipcor you could go back in time and package an old brl-cad release...
04:23.53louipcwhich sucks
04:24.16talciteI'd rather not do that
04:24.37louipcheh that's the nature of static release distros
04:25.47starseekerhttp://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/?view=log
04:27.45starseekerso from 33769 to 33872 was the upgrade struggle, and tweaks have been needed since
04:28.15louipcack I was thinking of 8.4 - 8.5 is good. sorry for the mix up
04:29.59talcitestarseeker: but that's already been released in 7.14.8 right?
04:30.02starseekerthe next round will probably be similar
04:30.05talcitewasn't it released in may?
04:30.13starseekertalcite: which, 8.5?  yeah
04:31.24starseekermakes note to self - next time tcl/tk is upgraded, check in the vanilla tree and apply the changes so one clean diff can be had from our own svn archives...
04:31.35talcitehaha
04:31.44louipctalcite: is it ok if tkhtml3 is installed in /usr in a brl-cad package?
04:32.09talcitelouipc: yeah. It shouldn't be a problem. tkhtml3 isn't currently in fedora
04:32.18talcitelouipc: wait, you mean in /usr, or /usr/brlcad/?
04:32.42starseekerif we install in /usr/brlcad/ we need to teach tcl/tk how to look in there properly
04:32.50louipc/usr/lib/Tkhtml3.0
04:33.01talcitemaybe. Let me ask the fedora devs
04:33.08starseekeris not sure how to do that, or he would have fixed it already
04:33.41louipcbecause that's how my package worked anyways, but it would conflict if I wanted to do a separate tkhtml3 package
04:34.42talcitewhat's tkhtml3 used for anyways?
04:34.47louipcall you should need to do is ./configure --with-tcl=/usr/lib --with-tk=/usr/lib
04:34.53starseekermust admit tkhtml3 seems like a less hot idea now... liked the sound of potentially having css support, but not sure it's worth this trouble
04:35.09starseekertalcite: the new mged help system
04:35.11louipctalcite: fancy man page browsing in mged
04:35.28talcite=S man page browsing? I didn't even build the documentation because there's a bug in fop
04:35.39talcite=/
04:35.40louipcscrew the pdfs
04:35.49starseekerif you got html output that's plenty
04:35.52louipcman page and html are good enough
04:36.04talcite? oh the documentation gets built anyways, even if --disable-documentation is set?
04:36.07talcitejust not pdfs?
04:36.37starseekernot sure.  I originally intended to have an option to speifically disable pdf building, but I don't know if it got in...
04:36.59louipcthat'd be a good idea
04:37.10starseekerit won't try pdfs if it doesn't find fop...
04:37.17talcitehmm
04:37.26talciteit was a fop NPE
04:38.42talciteoh well. Are there any alternatives for tkhml3?
04:38.52talciteor would that be a pretty long-term solution?
04:39.18louipcman is the alternative hehe
04:39.35starseekerwell, even if we pull in another one it still comes down to the issue of wanting to use TEA building of a package with a system tcl/tk and no system install permissions
04:39.47starseekerit's a fundamental issue, not specific to tkhtml3
04:39.55starseekerthat just happens to be the first time we hit it
04:39.56talciteI see
04:40.19talcitewhat about louipc's solution with --with-tkhtml=blah
04:40.22starseekerthere may be a "clean" solution, but if so I haven't found it yet
04:41.40starseekertalcite: you mean point to a pre-installed but non-system tkhtml3?
04:41.53talciteyeah
04:42.20talciteerr, is there a reason why you need write access to the tcl stuff anyways? how does TEA work?
04:42.39starseekerthat's a good question
04:42.48starseekerhas never been fully comfortable with it
04:42.50louipcis tea a separate package from tcl or something?
04:43.07starseekerno, it's an extension to makefile logic specifically for tcl
04:43.18talcite=_= really?
04:43.19talciteoh man
04:43.24starseekerhttp://www.tcl.tk/doc/tea/
04:43.28louipchmmm
04:43.39talcitewe could build TEA from the tcl sources for the distro
04:43.45talcitethe srpms are certainly available
04:44.11starseekerno, it's an m4 file we include in our makefile logic, iirc
04:44.14starseekerit's not a package
04:44.20louipcbut the config was --with-tcl, --with-tk, and I didn't have a problem building a package then
04:44.29starseekerthe point is what using the TEA logic in our makefile forces us to do
04:44.53starseekerdoesn't know if some sort of "install locally here and notify bwish how we want to start" is enough
04:44.59starseekeror possible even
04:45.16starseekermust sleep, back later
04:45.47talciteahh ok
04:45.47starseekerlouipc: you mean with system tcl/tk?
04:45.51louipcyeah
04:46.03starseekerwhich package were you building?
04:46.10louipcbrl-cad
04:46.11talciteI just heard back from the fedora devs. No go on packaging tkhtml3 unless we get it included upstream
04:46.25talciteerr well, not no go, it's just unlikely
04:46.29louipcalright
04:46.41louipcso you need to stick it in /usr/brlcad then eh
04:46.50louipcback to the beginning of the debate :D
04:47.03starseekerhow do other packages handle it when they need to install program specific tcl packages not part of the system install?
04:47.06talciteseparately I mean. Yeah. we'll need to have it somewhere within the brlcad stuff if possible
04:47.21talcitestarseeker: that's a good question. Let me ask
04:50.43talcitestarseeker: their advice is to work upstream on it. There's no one there right now who has had experience working on TEA
04:50.56louipctalcite: what does `grep PATH /usr/lib/tclConfig.sh` say?
04:50.57talcitecan we get our patches ported into tcl/tkhtml3?
04:51.51talcitegrep PATH /usr/lib64/tclConfig.sh
04:51.51talciteTCL_PACKAGE_PATH='/usr/lib64/tcl8.5 /usr/lib64/tk8.5 /usr/lib/tcl8.5 /usr/lib/tk8.5 /usr/share/tcl8.5 '
04:51.51talciteTCL_BUILD_STUB_LIB_PATH='/usr/lib64/libtclstub8.5.a'
04:51.51talciteTCL_STUB_LIB_PATH='/usr/lib64/libtclstub8.5.a'
04:52.02louipccool
04:53.22talciteso just to be clear. We're applying patches to tcl, AND tkhtml3? or just tcl?
04:53.36talciteand also, is tkhtml3 still maintained? The page look very old
04:59.42louipcit's not really maintained
05:01.44talcitedarn
05:23.23talciteoh man. I just read the fedora packaging guidelines
05:24.00talciteno static libs without explicit permission from the fedora steering committee. And they avoid it very much so
05:25.07talciteI'll need to package the rest of the libs as well =S
05:25.56louipceven the really obscure ones? hah
05:26.43talcitelouipc: yeah. It's a security thing
05:27.01louipchmm
05:27.03talcitestatic linked libs mean that the entire program needs to be recompiled if there's a bug found in one of them
05:27.27louipcyeah
05:27.36talciteplus, you need to stay current on the mailing lists for those static libs to check for security releases
05:27.42louipcwell they're not statically linked I don't think
05:27.46louipcjust bundled
05:28.13talcitehmm... well I think they pretty much mean any libs that aren't managed with a package
05:29.59louipchmm I guess you should tack on -brlcad on the end of them to signify it's from the brlcad tree
05:30.14louipcopennurbs is heavily modified for example
05:31.25louipcyeah brlcad is a packaging challenge if you want to do it 'right'
05:31.40talcite=/ maybe I should have chosen an easier package for my first time =/
05:31.51louipcdefinitely
05:31.57talcitewhy is opennurbs so heavily modified?
05:32.13talcitehave the patches been submitted back to the trunk?
05:33.06louipcI don't think so, but they didn't seem very friendly to collaboration
05:33.43talcitelouipc: not even if it means they get packaged into a major distro?
05:34.36louipcmaybe you have a better way with people than me :D try sending a message to the newsgroup
05:36.36louipcyou have to give them an email to download the zip file because it's password protected, they don't host a cvs tree, they don't even have an opt-out on the web site after you've put in your email
05:37.52louipcopen my foot :/
05:38.16Ralith'open' is good PR these days :P
05:38.57Ralithat least they don't have misleading licensing, I guess?
05:39.22talcitewait really? oh man
05:39.22talciteis it GPL compatible licensed?
05:40.16louipcit's akin to public domain licensed
05:40.31talciteI'd hope not... It can't get included in fedora unless it has an approved license
05:41.18louipchttp://www.opennurbs.org/
05:42.37louipcif you say fedora is interested maybe they'll perk up heh
05:44.48*** join/#brlcad talcite_ (n=matthew@69-196-132-72.dsl.teksavvy.com)
05:44.48Ralithtalcite_: you're saying public domain isn't an "approved license"?
05:44.49talcite_Ralith: they don't explicitly say public domain on their site I think
05:45.11Ralithso?
05:45.14Ralithit's public domain
05:45.22louipcwtfpl
05:45.23Raliththat's as friendly as it gets
05:45.35louipcyou can take it and stick GPL on it pretty much
05:45.38louipcif you want
05:46.11louipcI would interpret opennurbs-brlcad as BSD
05:46.29talcite_is it wtfpl though? There needs to be a license file distributed with the package
05:47.05louipcit says the same thing in the source package that it does on the site
05:47.09louipc'no restrictions'
05:48.03talcite_oh ok
05:56.14talciteargh! opennurbs uses their own zlib
05:56.19talcitethis is pretty ridiculous
05:56.48louipcuse opennurbs from brlcad
05:57.04louipcit's pretty much required
05:58.27talcitehmm. I don't know what the fedora maintainers will do about not having an active upstream maintainer on opennurbs
05:58.36talciteunless... would you guys want to fork opennurbs?
05:58.40louipcthat will probably need patching to be friendly for packaging though
05:58.57louipcI think it's effectively forked hah
05:59.05talcitehaha so make it official then
05:59.17louipcjust not maintained separately from brlcad itself
06:00.42talciteis it possible to make it so? Just make it a new tracker and start from there
06:01.28talciteI can create a package from opennurbs no problem I think, but I'll have to specify a project maintainer in the rpm spec and also for the package maintainers
06:05.55louipcI don't think a new tracker is necessary, maybe just a self contained build system
06:06.21louipclike I hear kde has for each of it's little apps
06:06.31louipcbut they can also all be built together
06:10.38talcitehmm. that's a pretty cool option
06:11.31talcitewell... we kind of do have a self-contained build system already don't we?
06:15.31louipcwell, I haven't really tried, but it's not a simple ./configure && make if you visit the opennurbs dir
06:15.47talcitehmm
06:15.58talcitethere's an autotools template there already
06:20.56talcitehmm this is a problem. I don't know if it's actually possible to move openNurbs outside of the package
06:21.30talcitethere's a lot of compile options that seem to be passed from the parent, meaning we're going to have trouble if they're different between different packages
06:22.46louipcyeah it would need some work
06:22.52talcitesigh. Maybe I'll just ask brlcad about it tomorrow. I'm also going to have to see if I can convince the fedora devs to just let us put the package in, as long as we use dynamic linked libs and keep them local
06:39.47louipcyeah I think this is something that hinders brl-cad from being adopted by any distro. maybe if it could be packaged properly, then it would be adopted and maybe get more attention overall.
06:41.06louipcsomeone's gotta have a lot of gumption to get over all the hurdles
06:44.31talcitealright, I'm going to call it an early (heh) night. I want to be up early enough to get in touch with brlcad and the fedora devs
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11:02.15CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35397 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/cianotify/ (. cianotify.info cianotify.module): cianotify custom module initial update (many more features than the proof of concept version sent to Sean).
11:02.55CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35398 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/ (brlcad.info brlcad.module): Add log message after model processing.
14:28.11CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35399 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c:
14:28.12CIA-79BRL-CAD: Added command line argument for manual data entry mode (-m) for entering sizes/lengths for all
14:28.14CIA-79BRL-CAD: parts of the human. Also reworked auto mode to be compatable with this.
14:34.47brlcada little bit of misinformation last night..
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14:36.45brlcadopennurbs has fairly minor modifications that mostly amount to compilation portability, there are some logic additions but we could probably refactor them if the project ever took upon a life of its own
14:37.13brlcadas it is, we have provided back upstream the non-logic changes (and regularly do so for tcl/tk as well, which also has build tweaks)
14:38.26brlcadtkhtml3 is just a bit of a bitch in its own right -- we have to figure out how to coerce it to install where we install
14:38.56brlcadbut also non-critical -- we can turn it off if we have to (especially if it means a go or no-go on fedora integration)
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14:43.11brlcadhowdy talcite
14:47.38talcitehey brlcad
14:48.35talciteSo there was a lot of discussion going on last night, plus some potential problems with make install again. Let me chat a bit with the fedora devs to see if  can get some exceptions for us
14:49.33talciteessentially, the main problem right now is that the fedora policy is to not use any static libs, eliminate all libtool archives, and avoid packaging dynamic libs together as one package
14:49.58talciteI'll see what I can do. I don't think they'll budge on static libs or the libtool archives
14:51.59brlcadyeah, i saw the backlog.. and just finished commenting a min before you entered :)
14:52.36talciteahh cool. Do we have an irc log?
14:52.50brlcadwe do, but it gets posted daily
14:53.01talciteoh ok
14:53.06brlcadwe can disable tkhtml if push comes to shove, it's not a critical component
14:53.14talciteahh ok
14:53.52brlcadaware of the out-of-dir install problem but it's not readily within our control to change it without gutting tkhtml3's build system
14:54.08brlcadwhich is an option too that we were talking about just yesterday
14:54.41brlcadsince it's a proper tcl extension, using TEA, I'd kinda like to avoid that, but it requires some build system massaging
14:54.53talciteI've been thinking about it as well. tkhtml3 doesn't modify any existing packages does it? It just writes to existing directories to update a registry or something?
14:55.00brlcadmaybe as simple as passing a few subconfigure flags
14:55.21talcitethere's an --exec-prefix flag that it follows
14:55.54brlcadyeah, nothing so complex -- the issue is mainly that it gets all of its installation preferences from whichever tcl it's building against
14:56.09brlcadand since you have it using a system tcl, it wants to install there so it's auto-located
14:56.14talciteahh..
14:56.26brlcadnot a problem, just a bit messy to override potentially
14:56.48brlcador as simple as ..
14:59.43talcitebrlcad: ok so that sounds good. What about building each library as a separate package? How entrenched are they right now?
15:02.06CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35400 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: tell tkhtml3 to install into our prefix. this may screw with users that want a specific --exec-prefix separate from prefix (not that we support that configuration).
15:02.12brlcadwhat do you mean?
15:03.04brlcadtalcite: have you tried manually specifying --exec-prefix=prefix ?  that should propagate and apply to tkhtml3
15:03.38brlcadpresuming you meant each of our libraries as a separate package, yes thought about that a lot
15:03.42talcitebrlcad: yup, I tried specifying it, but it also breaks some other packages. tkhtml3 isn't the only one that listens to --exec-prefix I think
15:03.51talcitebrlcad: yup, that's what I meant
15:04.03brlcadwe have about two dozen libraries
15:04.18brlcadinternal, not counting our bundled external deps
15:04.52talcitebrlcad: I think internal libs are ok. If you're the maintainer for them, it shouldn't be a problem
15:04.57brlcadwe also have about 400 binaries, many of which are similarly valuable as a stand-alone distribution as well
15:05.09talcitewhoa
15:05.34brlcadyou realize you picked a package about as complex as X11 to work on integrating? :)
15:05.57talcitehaha well it's worth a shot I suppose. Good practice
15:06.08brlcad25 years development, million+ lines of code .. lots of complexities :)
15:06.19brlcadit's certainly doable
15:06.33talciteI need to package this in one way or another for the reprap project, but I'd like to also have it carry over into fedora anyways
15:06.37brlcadwe resolved most of the major issues over the past few years while working towards gentoo integration
15:06.46talciteahh
15:06.50brlcadour portage integration tracker item is like four years old
15:07.27brlcadwe used to have full-on modifications/extensions to tk years ago that made us require our version .. fortunately no longer the case
15:07.43brlcadplus there were many assumptions about installing into an isolated root
15:08.06brlcadalso taken care of, even run-time relocation should work now
15:08.26talcitehmm. Yeah, we'll definitely need to use the system libs whenever possible
15:09.00brlcadunderstandably, hence --disable-all :)
15:09.22brlcadthey're only bundled for convenience at that, to make the task a lot easier for users
15:09.29brlcadauto-detecting nearly everything
15:10.00talciteI see. Yeah the build process is definitely really convenient if you don't mind using the bundled libs
15:10.16brlcadtalcite: so one thing I'd suggest is flipping over to an SVN checkout, and seeing if we can work through these issues one at a time
15:10.26brlcadthen we can tag a release for you to use
15:10.46brlcadyeah, especially given how some of the deps are common, others are obscure
15:10.55talcitethat sounds good to me.
15:10.56brlcadopenNURBS being a classic example
15:11.50brlcadwhich is under a trivial license as I see you noticed (commenting on last night's discussion)
15:12.05talciteI don't know if we actually need to abstract out openNURBS
15:12.06brlcadit's not public domain, but about as liberal a license as I've ever seen
15:12.11brlcadyou shouldn't
15:12.17brlcadit's very obscure
15:12.27talciteyeah. And we've made lots of changes to it I've heard
15:12.32talciteeffectively forking it
15:12.42brlcadactually only minor changes, mostly build system portability fixes
15:12.49brlcad(which we do continuously push upstream)
15:12.49talciteoh ok
15:13.34brlcadwe do presently have some minor logic changes that we'd have to back out, but nothing too drastic
15:13.56brlcadthat said, there's still not really a community supporting it -- just devs ad mcneal and assoc.
15:14.00brlcads/ad/at/
15:14.46brlcadthe logic mods we need/want, they're very intentionally not interested in supporting (as they have a commercial product they sell that does exactly what we've implemented)
15:15.03talcitehaha I see
15:15.29brlcadso we have those mods separated out "mostly" (99%) in our libs
15:15.42brlcadjust a few from when we first started were applied directy and never backed out
15:19.24talciteso where does that leave us right now? I'm checking out an SVN copy right now, and we need to get everything to use system libs if they exist, then I'll submit a request for review by the repo maintainers. How does that sound?
15:19.44CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35401 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c: Reworked the makearmy command to prevent person overlapping with custom settings.
15:20.11brlcadthat sounds good to me -- of the list in src/other which are already in fedora?
15:20.24talcitethe request will probably come back with a lot of comments on changes we need to make, but it's probably the only good way forward. The fedora devs are having trouble saying what we can and can't do without seeing the actual code
15:20.26brlcadantoher consideration is installation location
15:20.43talcitelibpng, libregex, tcl, tk
15:20.54brlcadfor what it's worth, one of the fedora devs was working on integration at one point
15:21.00talciteyup, install location I'm working on right now. It looks like the rpm specfile has a bit of handling in that
15:21.10brlcadmore than a year ago, iirc
15:21.12talciteahh
15:21.37brlcadjust an FYI, some of them should be aware of our specific situation
15:21.52brlcadthe biggest issue on installation location is naming conflicts and isolatability
15:22.17brlcadwe have ancient libs that predate other folks, but conflict with other high-profile libs
15:22.19talcitehmm I never mentioned that I was working on brlcad to them. I'll mention it next time I get a chance to talk to them I guess
15:22.37brlcadjust those four deps?  I'm sure there are others :)
15:22.46talciteyup, I was configuring to get the list =D
15:23.08talcitetcl, tk, itcl/itk, iwidgets, libpng, libregex, zlib
15:23.30brlcadi would expect: boost, libpng, libtermlib, libz, tk, incrtcl, libregex, and tcl
15:24.08talciteboost? hmm
15:24.17brlcadboost isn't so important -- all header files
15:24.26talciteyeah
15:25.29talcitelibtermlib isn't in fedora for some reason
15:27.26brlcadit is, just isn't called that :)
15:27.33brlcadtermio/curses work
15:28.00brlcadtermcap
15:28.17talciteahh
15:28.17brlcadterminfo
15:28.19brlcadtinfo
15:28.25brlcadthe thing has tons of names :)
15:28.36brlcadprobably standard system lib
15:29.10brlcadtermlib is just the original/old bsd name for it, and is a nice stable base that lets us continue to support really old systems
15:29.19brlcad*really* old systems :)
15:31.02talciteoh I see
15:31.14talciteit's called libtermcap in fedora
15:57.55CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35402 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Update combWrapper to call createWrapper or gedWrapper. Added comb, g and r to Archer's undo framework.
16:12.38talciteargh. I've run into the XVisualInfo bug again
16:12.46talciteand this time autogen.sh didn't help
16:26.50talcitebrlcad: can we do something to fix this up this XVisualInfo bug? I'm pretty sure it's still the same thing with autogen not running tests properly
16:27.04talciteThe weird thing is that it worked on the 7.14.8, but doesn't work on trunk now
16:27.14brlcadtalcite: there were two issues, needing to run autogen.sh and the cache not being invalidated
16:27.28talcitebrlcad: ahh yes, the cache
16:28.02brlcadi'm still working on the cache issue, but you can --cache-file=/dev/null
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16:30.01talcitebrlcad: hmm. I cleared the cache, but it didn't help
16:30.13brlcadpastebin?
16:30.26brlcadconfigure output, config.log, make log
16:30.42talcitesure
16:30.51brlcadmy change yesterday might not have helped
16:31.00brlcadmaybe made it worse
16:31.40talcitemake -> http://fpaste.org/paste/20382
16:34.38brlcadyeah, need config.log
16:34.48brlcadit's the HAVE_X11_XLIB_H check
16:37.26talcitebrlcad: http://fpaste.org/paste/20384
16:40.01brlcadhuh
16:40.10brlcadgrep HAVE_X11 include/brlcad_config.h
16:40.47talcitebrlcad: nothing
16:42.21CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35403 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added the "c" command to Archer's undo framework.
16:44.05talciteheh the entire #define for the HAVE_X11_XLIB_H is missing
16:50.25``Eriktries --with-x11=/path/to/X
16:51.06brlcadhuh
16:51.12``Erik(looks like all the X checks are now buried in a $bc_with_x11)
16:51.29brlcad``Erik: it's doing the check, in his log
16:51.40brlcadjust AC_CHECK_HEADER isn't setting HAVE* for some reason
16:51.49``Erikoh, I'm chasing down the issues myself, getting them on my lappie
16:51.59``Erikhaven't even looked at the pastebin :)
16:52.52talcitebrlcad: The #define is missing within the autoconf template. Is that a change that happened moving to svn trunk?
16:53.05CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35404 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: try AC_CHECK_HEADERS instead to get the HAVE define
16:53.07brlcadtalcite: try that
16:53.12brlcad(svn up)
16:53.22talciteyup
16:57.14jdolineri'm pretty sure that worked for me brlcad
16:58.34talcitelooks like it works
17:01.43brlcadcool
17:01.46CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35405 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bot/bot.c: Throw some escapes in so GCC will quit complaning that '???' is not a valid trigraph.
17:01.58brlcadwho would have thought one 'S' was so important
17:02.06talciteheh
17:02.50jdolineryup ran great for me
17:02.52jdolinercommit time
17:04.37``Erikah heh, or explicitely putting the defines in AC_CHECK_HEADER
17:04.51CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r35406 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/surfaceintersect.cpp: Chased down a couple of bugs, intersection now runs succussfully on two intersecting nurbs surfaces
17:05.31brlcadcool jdoliner  :)
17:05.38brlcadso what's the result?
17:05.44brlcadan evaluated trimmed surface?
17:05.49brlcaduntrimmed?
17:05.53brlcadjust the intersection curve?
17:06.02jdolinerright now just the intersection curve
17:07.14jdolinerso that commit message might make things seem a bit more exciting than they are
17:07.34talciteinclude/dm-rtgl.h:63: error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before ‘GLXContext’
17:07.47jdoliner0:)
17:07.49talcitelooks like another failed include somewhere
17:09.45``Erikmissing GL/glx.h ?
17:10.03talcitemaybe. Why is it being built though? I'm not using ogl
17:11.40louipcall your stuff is in /lib64 yeah?
17:12.03talciteahh... yes
17:12.51talciteit's strange. I never ran into this build error on the 7.14.8 release. It just wasn't being compiled I think
17:14.20talcitewait a minute
17:18.27talciteso what changed that we now need glx.h?
17:18.41talciteI didn't have the libs before, that's probably what caused the problem
17:20.00talcitelooks like it works again
17:42.52brlcadtalcite: hm, it shouldn't be compiling dm-frtgl
17:43.34talcitebrlcad: not sure what to say, it did for some reason
17:48.35talcitebrlcad: if it helps: http://pastebin.com/d2b63bbb3 config.log
17:48.43talcitefpaste.org broke =P
17:49.15brlcadi can't get to pastebin.com from here
17:49.21brlcad~bzpaste
17:49.22ibotfrom memory, bzpaste is http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/
17:52.19brlcadtry this: grep RTGL src/libdm/Makefile
17:52.42talciteDM_RTGL_CFLAGS =
17:52.42talcite#DM_RTGL_CFLAGS = -DDM_RTGL -DIF_RTGL $(GL_CPPFLAGS)
17:52.42talciteDM_RTGL_LIBS =
17:52.42talcite#DM_RTGL_LIBS = ${LIBGL}
17:52.42talcite${DM_RTGL_CFLAGS} \
17:52.43talcite${DM_RTGL_LIBS}
17:52.53talcitebrlcad: I can't get the bzflag one working. It says forbidden
17:53.07``Erik1/clear
17:53.09brlcadhuh, okay well that's even more odd .. rtgl is turned off
17:53.29brlcadshow the make output leading up to that include/dm-rtgl.h error?
17:54.19talciteerr. it's gone =/
17:54.26brlcadheh
17:54.33talciteI could bring it back, one sec
17:54.36brlcadlies!
17:54.48talciteI'll just yum erase glx.h =P
17:57.03talcitedamn firefox keeps dying on me
17:57.26brlcadmore than likely that was either some stale build issue or is something minor that will get caught during release testing
17:57.38brlcadseeing how you're on unreleased trunk at the moment
17:58.39talciteprobably. I'll help you track it down though
17:58.51talciteI can't stay for too much longer though. I really should go in to the lab today
17:59.29brlcaddm-rtgl is an experimental interface being worked on now, it shouldn't be enabled
18:01.20talcitebrlcad: here you go: http://paste2.org/p/349572
18:02.12brlcadyeah, that says it's disabled
18:02.24talciteheh. alright.
18:02.35talcitewell my make is chugging along. It should hit the glx.h thing soon
18:03.00talcitemaybe time to invest in more ram/cpu and a ssd =P
18:05.32brlcad:)
18:06.25brlcadshouldn't hit a glx.h error either, opengl is disabled (and it should be)
18:14.05talcitehmm.. it gave a different error
18:14.14talciteguess it was lies after all =P
18:15.17talcitealright. So it builds, albeit with a couple funky packages. Not really a worry, like you said, it'll get removed at release
18:15.37talciteI'll have it compile and then give packaging a shot
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18:34.31brlcadtalcite: word of caution, do not set prefix to /usr
18:34.53talcitehaha yeah, I saw that in the FAQ. I shall avoid it
18:34.57louipchehe
18:34.57brlcadthe conflicts I spoke of earlier are potentially devastating
18:35.42talciteso how is integration with a dynamic lib system going to work anyways? Do we use libtool rpaths?
18:35.57brlcadhm?
18:36.48talcitewell I'm curious as to how we satisfy the dynamic libraries for this
18:37.20talcitewe use system libs when possible, but what about the local libs?
18:37.50talcitethey're dynamically linked, but are they registered with ldconfig?
18:40.13louipcyou'll have to add the directory to ld.so.conf
18:40.19louipcand run ldconfig
18:41.08louipctalcite: I guess you could ask fedora devs how they handle post-install operations
18:41.25brlcadthey are found automatically
18:41.35brlcadlibtool takes care of all that
18:41.37louipclike regenerating the font cache, info listing
18:41.47brlcadrpaths are fixed into the binaries
18:41.55talciteahh... ok I see
18:42.07louipcoh libtool
18:42.07brlcadand libs
18:42.25brlcadldconfig would be to add to the system search paths, but that's not necessary
18:42.34talciteheh. The fedora package rules are to not use rpaths
18:42.53louipcprobably not to use libtool either :P
18:43.22talciteerr, well you can use libtool. you need to remove the archives it generates though.
18:43.30talciteanyways, we can deal with this stuff one at a time
18:43.31louipcyeah
18:43.44talciteanyways, I really should head into the lab
18:43.59talciteI already took yesterday off heh
18:45.50talciteI'll be back tonight, but really late
18:56.07brlcadcya!
18:56.22brlcadI fly down south tomorrow, so may or may not be up late :)
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19:41.40CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35407 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/copyeval.c:
19:41.42CIA-79BRL-CAD: Changed the order of the arguments (i.e. path_to_old_prim comes before
19:41.44CIA-79BRL-CAD: new_prim). Removed the option to specify the path elements individually (i.e.
19:41.46CIA-79BRL-CAD: "all.g box.r box.s" is no longer allowed. One must instead specify it as
19:41.48CIA-79BRL-CAD: all.g/box.r/box.s).
19:58.23CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1591 10/wiki/More_Changelog: July 30 activity
20:04.19CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35408 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Added copyeval and facetize to Archer's undo framework.
20:32.24``Erikodd
21:04.17CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35409 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: using window size for gridding; experimenting with shot patterns
21:23.30*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
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21:29.05CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35410 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/copyeval.c: The copyeval command has been modified to do a regular copy if the path_to_old_prim has a single path element (i.e. just a plain object name).
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090731

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090731

00:23.49``Erik1/clear
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01:29.38*** part/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-75-169.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
01:46.57brlcadque dia!
01:47.14brlcadbegins packing..
01:50.28starseekerhas stuffed an amazing number of close into a tiny space, but still must hope for a convenient laundry...
01:50.48starseekerer, clothes even
01:51.01brlcadthose could be useful to have with :)
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02:20.15``Erikbastages didn't manage a release? O.o
02:53.10starseekertoo many other things sucking up time
03:58.37talcite<PROTECTED>
03:58.37talcitelibtool: install: error: cannot install `libstepcore.la' to a directory not ending in /home/matthew/Download/temp/lib
03:58.44talcitethose are funky errors =S
03:58.53talciteis this because I've decided to use prefix?
04:18.02brlcad``Erik: there's still time!
04:19.05brlcadtalcite: that looks like an unclean build where configured and built once with one prefix, then again with a different one
04:19.30brlcadmake distclean && sh autogen.sh && ./configure --your-flags-here... && make
04:20.26brlcadin that error, looks like prefix is presently "/home/matthew/Download/temp/opt/brlcad" but at some point was "/home/matthew/Download/temp"
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05:05.47mike111is there a tool to convert .g or iges to step?
05:11.36brlcadg-iges?
05:11.43brlcadg-step isn't ready
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05:11.59mike111as I understand, g-iges convert .g to IGES
05:12.16mike111I need to convert to STEP
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05:13.03mike111the mesh generator crashes when I load the an IGES
05:16.07brlcadyou understand correctly, contrary to the confusingly named "g-iges" command name ;)
05:16.42brlcadwhat mesh generator?
05:16.48mike111g-iges might have some hidden option, so I'm being cautious.
05:16.51mike111Gmsh
05:17.06brlcadsounds like a bug in gmsh
05:17.16brlcadcould try one of the other exporters
05:17.20brlcadthere are a variety
05:17.27brlcadlook at the g-* commands
05:17.31mike111it accepts STL, IGES and STEP
05:17.46mike111but it doesn't re-mesh STL
05:18.48brlcaddoesn't remesh stl, doesn't properly parse iges, .. what makes you think step would work? :)
05:19.16mike111gmsh users are able to mesh STEP models
05:19.32mike111the developers advised against working with IGES
05:19.36brlcad*whoosh*
05:19.39brlcadit was a joke
05:20.20brlcadwell then you're kinda stuck without involving another tool
05:20.55mike111http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.cad.gmsh.general/431
05:27.14brlcadyeah, that sounds a bit like a cop-out
05:27.22brlcadit can/should work, but obviously doesn't
05:28.08mike111seems like IGES has lots of versions which make exchanging files difficult
05:28.40brlcadthe differences are pretty minor
05:29.30brlcadlike saying there are lots of versions of gcc which make compiling files difficult
05:29.52brlcadyou either support them or you don't, they're detectable revisions
05:30.03mike111as test I generated a sphere in mged and converted it to iges. Gmsh only loaded the variant generated with g-iges -f switch
05:30.18mike111but it didn't work for more complex geometries
05:31.01brlcadthe -f option facetizes it for you
05:31.07brlcadi.e. turns it into a mesh
05:31.44brlcadi.e., a brep polygonal mesh, not a brep spline surface
05:32.27mike111only worked with the sphere model
05:33.57brlcaddoesn't really matter, not what you want
06:34.55talcitehey brlcad, you're still awake?
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15:12.32CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35411 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/ (Makefile.am humanwizard.tcl): Started work on archer plugin for procedural human geometry
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15:40.01CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35412 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/humanwizard/ (. Makefile.am humanwizard.tcl): Added files needed for archer wizard on human geometry
15:41.55CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35413 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/humanwizard.tcl: Changed file to match with tirewizard and tankwizard in format
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17:04.38CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35414 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/humanwizard/humanwizard.tcl: Changed all variables to be for humans instead of tires
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17:59.51CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35415 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/Makefile: Added human wizard to list of buildable wizards in makefile
18:23.10*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=matthew@206-248-177-27.dsl.teksavvy.com)
18:23.16``Erikhuzzah, cast is off, now for a week of wrist brace and rehabilitation
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19:09.36CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35416 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/ (brlcad.inc brlcad.module): Implemented improved raytracing (raytrace only required views).
20:47.29CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1592 10/wiki/More_Changelog: July 31 log
20:57.08*** join/#brlcad Don_ (n=Don@c-71-238-51-148.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
21:07.42RalithChanged all variables to be  for humans instead of tires
21:07.44Ralithhehe
21:08.10Ralith``Erik: you had a cast on your wrist?
21:13.21*** join/#brlcad Don__ (n=Don@c-71-238-51-148.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
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21:28.43CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r35417 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: Added humans to top of food chain (added humanwizard to configure.ac) ;^)
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21:49.05``ErikRalith: yes, for the last 4.5 weeks
21:49.16Ralithohdamn
21:49.20Ralithtyping must not have been fun
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22:41.16*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=matthew@206-248-177-27.dsl.teksavvy.com)
23:10.51talcitethe libtool entry in the NIST STEP library is driving me nuts
23:11.20talciteIt refuses to install in anything that's not the root directory
23:12.20talciteI'm trying fakeroot and make DESTDIR install, but it's not working out.
23:12.44talcitethe pastebin is here: http://fpaste.org/paste/20546
23:12.50talcitedoes anyone know what's going on?
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23:21.02louipcwell, fakeroot wouldn't affect that
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090801

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090801

00:14.54talciteI don't get it... How does this even work in real installs? If it was a real make install, then it would copy libstepcore.la to /lib and cause all kinds of fire and brimstone
00:17.11talciteoh, and the fakeroot was to take care of a tkhtml3 quirk
00:17.28louipcweird permissions?
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00:39.43louipctalcite: does it still have rpaths?
00:43.35talcitelouipc: nah, it was just a Tcl extension thing. It needs to write to a specific path.
00:43.39talcitelouipc: it still has rpaths, yes
00:43.57talciteI'll need to deal with them somehow later
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01:24.42louipctalcite: is there a difference between a dev and a packager in fedora?
01:26.39talcitelouipc: not that I know of. Almost everything within fedora exists within a package
01:27.16louipccool so you will become a dev? :D
01:27.31talcitelouipc: there's probably a security team or something and I know there's a committee that steers package inclusion, but largely it should be just packagers
01:27.45talcitelouipc: hmm, I guess if you put it that way, yeah
01:28.01louipccool
01:28.15talciteI like the title package maintainer better though. Dev makes it sound like you should know everything there is to know about fedora
01:28.40talcitewhich I certainly don't, as evidenced by all my troubles with packaging =D
01:28.49louipcyeah
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03:04.06CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35418 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/3dm/3dm-g.cpp: Add notes on where to go looking for color, visibility, etc. information needed to intelligently assign such settings during a 3dm import. Shouldn't be too hard to chase down.
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03:42.43CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35419 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/dozoom.c: have to wrap the dm-rtgl code in DM_RTGL so we don't end up with gl/glx header errors when opengl is disabled.
03:48.16CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35420 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac m4/cache.m4):
03:48.18CIA-79BRL-CAD: add a BC_CONFIG_COMPLETE macro that is used in conjunction with BC_CONFIG_CACHE
03:48.20CIA-79BRL-CAD: to let it know that configure completed successfully. BC_CONFIG_COMPLETE must
03:48.22CIA-79BRL-CAD: be called before AC_OUTPUT because it sets a cache value that is read looked for
03:48.24CIA-79BRL-CAD: during the next run. this implements sf feature request 2828793 from matt_chan
03:48.26CIA-79BRL-CAD: (RFE: delete configure cache on failed run).
03:56.08CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35421 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/Makefile: remove generated file
04:02.49CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35422 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/ (humanwizard/humanwizard.tcl humanwizard.tcl): case consistency. class names are capitalized, CamelCase should be consistent.
04:04.05CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35423 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/humanwizard/ (_HumanWizard.tcl humanwizard.tcl): temporary rename to fix filename case.
04:06.05CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35424 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/ (3 files in 2 dirs): fix filename case. class files should match their class and it's nice to not have two identically named tcl files.
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04:36.05talciteholy crap. I almost just set fire to my apartment =S
04:36.15talciteI forgot the oven was on for 3 hours
04:37.20talciteon a less disturbing note, I got around the libtool madness =D
04:37.56talciteit was being caused by DESTDIR for some reason. I can use prefix, but it looks like DESTDIR is out
04:44.10talcitewoo it runs!
04:46.16talciteOk, I need to check the tkhtml3 behaviour. What part of the mged documentation is tkhtml3 used for? It just opens a firefox window for me when I browse them
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05:24.26``Erikhm, tkhtml3 is supposed to pull up the html version of the docs inside of mged as a special window thingy, not ask the system just to open a .html
05:44.28talcitehmm.. Maybe I broke something with the whole fakeroot thing
05:44.38talciteI'm surprised though. Why not just ask the system to open a browser?
05:44.45talciteit's pretty standard isn't it?
05:46.14``Erik*shrug* ask starseeker, he's the one who did it :) I think the notion was to make it 'integrated'
05:47.29``Erikfrankly, trying to figure out an unstupid way to handle tkhtml3 is what has kept a new fbsd port of BRL-CAD from coming out... I'm cycling one through that installs all of tcl/tk just to cope at the moment :(
05:50.01talcite=(
05:50.59talciteanyways, it seems like tkhtml3 is minor. It's been discussed before and we can forego it if necessary. The libs and rpaths are a much bigger issue at hand
05:52.36``Erikprefix is the preferred approach to placing it, I think... *shrug*
05:52.48``Erikyou're trying to cook a package, right?
05:52.53talcitethat I am
05:53.22talcitePrefix seems to miss a few things, like tkhtml3, which is why the discussion about foregoing it came up originally
05:53.56``Eriktkhtml3 explicitely IGNORES prefix and destdir, opting to listen to the TEA information instead
05:54.05``Erikwhich is why it's bad
05:55.45``Erikit might get its own automake files in the very near future to fix that, mebbe for 7.14.10, or 7.14.12 (or 7.16.0 if it's called that *shrug*)
06:13.01louipcthat's odd, because it didn't seem to ignore destdir in my experience
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08:08.16``Eriknarf.
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11:54.53brlcadis it still ignoring it?  I added an --exec-prefix to tkhtml3's configure that should have made it work better
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13:06.16starseeker``Erik: my personal preference would be be to ditch it's current make system and TEA, but it would mean forking it outright, basically
13:06.52starseekergiven the lack of development activity it's seen, I suppose that's the de-facto situation anyway, but...
13:07.44starseeker(that seems to be a problem with a lot of tcl/tk addons - not much activity.  Guess it comes with the territory...)
13:10.08starseekerwas discussing TEA and tkhtml3 with brlcad yesterday - he thinks it's possible to make TEA and custom install prefixes play with package require, if I understand correctly
13:12.56starseekerI suppose it's worth solving, since in theory EVERY tcl/tk addon we bundle faces exactly the same issue if it "correctly" uses TEA for it's build.  Right now, I'm pretty sure at least tkimg is not "package require" ready
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14:24.29kanzurehey samrose
14:34.53``Eriknot like we haven't done a straight up fork before *shrug*
14:35.10``Erikya'll out loozerana yet?
14:36.08``Erik(is the lack of activity due to lack of developer interest? or because they're so easy to get "done"?)
14:37.12``ErikI've seen people talk smack on excellent packages with active maintainership due to lack of releases... they were "done" and bugs were few and far between, but the lack of weekly update made some people think they were abandoned :/
14:57.29``Erikhum, fcc looking into the iphone/googvoice thing
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22:46.35starseekerindianlarry: hmm, the full import of the black widow 3dm model with random color assignment shows a few artifacts
23:28.06CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35425 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: look just a little bit harder for X11 headers since mac os x (10.4) seems to be intermittently setting ac_x_header_dirs to empty yet ac_x_libraries non-empty. X_CFLAGS seems to be no longer used so remove it.
23:35.18CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35426 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/Makefile.am:
23:35.20CIA-79BRL-CAD: don't even attempt to build tkhtml3 if documentation is disabled. this makes
23:35.22CIA-79BRL-CAD: the newish 'man' mged command not work, of course. if it is enabled, though,
23:35.24CIA-79BRL-CAD: make sure tkhtml3's build system links against X_LIBS in order to fix a Mac
23:35.26CIA-79BRL-CAD: compilation failure when linking against system frameworks.
23:36.25CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35427 10/brlcad/trunk/Makefile.am: (log message trimmed)
23:36.29CIA-79BRL-CAD: use Making all in include
23:36.31CIA-79BRL-CAD: MAKE all-recursive
23:36.33CIA-79BRL-CAD: Making all in conf
23:36.35CIA-79BRL-CAD: "Sat, 01 Aug 2009 19:35:07 -0400"
23:36.37CIA-79BRL-CAD: MAKE all-am
23:36.39CIA-79BRL-CAD: MAKE[4]: Nothing to be done for `all-am'.
23:43.19CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35428 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/Makefile.am: if docs are disabled, disable the 'man' command outright (for now at least). the tkhtml3 interface it relies upon has to be conditionally.
23:44.49CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35429 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: tkhtml should be respecting the installation prefix now that its configure is being passed --exec-prefix
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090802

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090802

00:03.32*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=matthew@206-248-177-27.dsl.teksavvy.com)
02:18.06``ErikO.o
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11:33.36CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35430 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/humanwizard/Makefile.am: Fix case on the HumanWizard.tcl entry in the humanwizard makefile.
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18:32.11CIA-79BRL-CAD: 031qt2bt7nhzotm12 07http://brlcad.org * r1593 10/wiki/User:1qt2bt7nhzotm12: New page: In the romance of true love even when the wooer was middle-aged. She had been travelling in the Far East when the belated news of Margaret's death came to her. When she had arrived home ...
18:47.30talcitehey guys. I think there's a bug in the configure.ac. There's a missing makefile
18:47.32talcitemake[5]: *** No rule to make target `humanwizard.tcl', needed by `all-am'.  Stop.
18:47.52talcitepreceeding line: make[5]: Entering directory `/home/matthew/rpmbuild/SOURCES/brlcad_copy/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/humanwizard'
18:50.15talcitenevermind, I just svn up'd and it looks like it's there =D
19:35.29``Erikthat's a hotspot of activity
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19:48.59dassoukiare there any recommendations for a 2d cad software ? other than QCAD ?
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19:52.06RalithYES
19:52.07Ralithfinally
19:52.11Ralithfound the partial transparency setting
19:55.36Ralithdamn this looks nice :]
20:07.29CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35431 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (MainWindow.cxx mainwindow.ui): Practical coloring!
20:07.33``Erikralith, you dang lithp weenie
20:08.03Ralithhuh?
20:08.08``Erik:D
20:08.11Ralith:D
20:08.15Ralithbut seriously wat?
20:08.31``Erikjust an "eye sezz j00"
20:08.53Ralitho
20:09.00RalithI thought that had already been established
20:16.10Ralithokay, I really need to find a way around this flickeryness >:/
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20:56.58Ralithwhee, got emacs set up as my $EDITOR :D
20:57.02Ralith<3 multitty
20:58.26CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35432 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (5 files): s/CameraInputLayer/SceneInputLayer/
21:07.55Ralithoh wow
21:07.57RalithI fixed it :D
21:09.30Ralithbrlcad: you'll be happy to know:
21:10.19CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35433 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/OgreGLWidget.cxx: Flicker fixed! Lazy redraw now fully functional.
21:12.32CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35434 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/OgreGLWidget.cxx: Scrapped a no longer relevant #define
22:31.30starseekerRalith: you know the drill - screenshot please! ;-))
22:31.52``Erikor it didn't happen
22:31.58Ralithhehe
22:32.13starseekerdoesn't care to think about building Ogre on this thing
22:32.38RalithI need to find a way to get rounded corners on the console log
22:34.14``Erik<-- grouses some cuz he wasn't able to snag himself a date this weekend :/
22:35.09Ralithscreenie!
22:35.12Ralithhttp://isitloadedyet.com/~ralith/usable.png
22:35.40``Erikneat
22:35.55starseekerRalith: is this relevant?  www.qtforum.org/article/25669/qwidget-with-rounded-corner.html
22:36.02Ralithsounds like it
22:36.41``Erikstarseeker: ya out in loozerana?
22:36.57starseekeryup
22:37.05``Erikhow is it?
22:37.18starseekerHUMID
22:37.26``Erik:D
22:37.36starseekerand the internet is sllllow
22:37.46``Erikat least it's a little dryer now
22:38.07``Erikimagine if you were there oh, 5 years ago
22:38.31starseekermarginally dryer
22:39.31starseekergrooves on g3d screenshot
22:40.20Ralithstarseeker: worked; gotta tweak the value so it doesn't look silly though
22:41.10Ralithgoes looking for a way to make only the *top* corners rounded, too
22:41.17CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35435 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: Rounded corners to console output; needs tweaking still.
22:41.23Ralithwait, nvm, all four is best here
22:42.05starseekerRalith:  now you should see if you can get it to import some BRL-CAD facetized primitive
22:42.11starseeker:-D
22:42.40starseekerdoesn't know how hard it is to go from BRL-CAD bots/nmgs to Ogre mesh
22:43.19CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35436 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: Rounded console output corners tweaked.
22:43.33Ralithstarseeker: I'd like to get camera control working properly again first (QGraphicsScene screws with input a little)
22:43.45starseekeror more practially, figure out how to get some libged command like l or ls to work in the terminal
22:43.53starseekeror that too :-)
22:43.56Ralithshouldn't be hard
22:44.06Ralithif I want to keep mafm's command system largely intact anyway
22:44.24starseekernods
22:44.32Ralithit'll need some polishing up but it should do pretty well as-is
22:44.44Raliththe GUI console itself is fully wired in
22:47.08Ralithstarseeker: one thing I'm not sure about is a good way to wire up the quit command, which needs to call a method of QApplication
22:47.15Ralithshort of making QApplication global...
22:47.48starseekeris quit in libged?
22:48.12Ralithbuiltin command :P
22:48.14Ralithhm
22:48.18RalithI suppose it's not really even necessary
22:48.32Ralithin fact...
22:49.19Ralithyeah, it should be easy to drop in additional libged functionality
22:49.42Ralithmafm's already got a basic structure and a few impls of integration with the command system there
22:51.45starseeker``Erik: how is it on the home front?
22:52.05``Erikit's still here O.o
22:54.44Ralith<3 emacs 23
23:23.12CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35437 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: Restored console input.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090803

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090803

01:08.32Ralithgragh.
01:08.35Ralith/usr/include/QtGui/qgraphicssceneevent.h:72: error: default argument for parameter of type ‘QEvent::Type’ has type ‘long int’
01:08.44RalithQt headers have a habit of spewing weird errors when things are broken somewhere
01:11.06Ralithand/or when X defines things that screw with it.
01:11.07Ralithundefs
01:12.53RalithWOO
01:12.57Ralith:D
01:13.09Ralithfinally:
01:13.17CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35438 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (8 files): Fixed camera controls :D
01:13.46Ralithg3d is now back at full functionality (that is, as far as it's ever been) in OpenGL mode :D
01:14.44Ralithafks for a while
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02:33.30starseekerRalith: nice!
02:43.43starseekertrys downloading Qt and rt^3 for the heck of it...
02:43.56starseekerand flinches at an estimate of two days
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05:13.53RalithO.o
05:13.59Ralithstarseeker: what kind of internet you on over there?
06:49.19Ralithtomorrow I think I'll give the popup noun/verb command line a go
07:15.52CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35439 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (6 files): Replaced History singleton with Console-specific history deque, and added support for saving the current (unexecuted) text.
07:21.50CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35440 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: Fixed crash on executing empty command line.
07:22.20Ralithmisbehavior remains when executing historical text; will fix tomorrow
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13:44.19CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35441 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/humanwizard/ (Makefile Makefile.in): Added more files needed for archer human wizard
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15:37.51CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35442 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/humanwizard/Makefile.in: generated files have no place here.
15:39.11CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35443 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/humanwizard/Makefile: generated files have no place here.
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19:07.19CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35444 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: First attempt at removing strange history behavior when executing historical commands.
19:10.12CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35445 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: Second attempt to remove strange history behavior; historical commands now result in blank history entries.
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19:13.12CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:G3d-2009-08-03.png]]": A screenshot depicting the current state G3D's Qt-based GUI
19:16.26CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1595 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Added summary of work since last log, complemented by a screenshot.
19:22.26RalithI'd love to have CL's trace function right about now :/
19:27.15CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35446 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/ (tcl/unix/Makefile.in tk/unix/Makefile.in): make sure even harder that there are ug+rw perms on installed libs and (also) install the binaries without version numbers attached (e.g., tclsh in addition to tclsh8.5)
19:27.32CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1596 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Corrected date
19:29.40CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35447 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/Makefile.am: add additional make rules for tkhtml3 so it integrates better with distcheck
19:30.42CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35448 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/incrTcl/ (itcl/pkgIndex.tcl.in itk/pkgIndex.tcl.in): make sure the package files point to the right location for the library. they're up a directory since the pkgIndex.tcl is installed in a lib subdir.
19:31.16``Erikheh
19:31.41CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03Ralith 07http://brlcad.org * r1597 10/wiki/User:Ralith: Clarification
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19:33.41CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35449 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: (log message trimmed)
19:33.43CIA-79BRL-CAD: make sure the ITCL_LIB_FILE has the appropriate filename suffix. the .a suffix
19:33.45CIA-79BRL-CAD: is wrong as you cannot package require those. alas we cannot seemingly use tcl's
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19:33.47CIA-79BRL-CAD: SHLIB_SUFFIX variable since it's not available (as are the other
19:33.49CIA-79BRL-CAD: TCL_SHLIB_SUFFIX and similar vars). instead put a horrible platform hack so we
19:33.51CIA-79BRL-CAD: can acommodate mac's dylib suffix. this definitely needs improvement but will
19:33.53CIA-79BRL-CAD: hopefully go away when we can call incrTcl's configure with the upcoming 4.0
19:34.00CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35450 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: installation permissions should be fixed for tcl/tk. itcl/itk pkgIndex.tcl files should be generated correctly now too.
19:34.14``Erikso is siggraph rolling yet?
19:34.28``Erikshoulda went
19:36.38brlcadyou shoulda
19:36.52CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35451 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewedge.c: mass style/consistency/format/indent cleanup
19:37.00brlcadvan seems kinda lost
19:37.09``Erikphu?
19:38.04``Erikit's a heady conf, if you're not used to 'em, I can see how you can get lost
19:38.15``Erik<-- was awful lost when he went a few years ago
19:38.54``ErikI surpose pushing for two conf's up in canuckia next year would not be terribly astute :/
19:39.37Ralithbrlcad: you're being awfully productive for a conf attendee
19:40.26``Erikhe does that, ralith
19:40.39Ralithheh
19:41.36``Erikprobably in a session rght now, coding and committing heh
19:44.06d-loI think this is great.
19:44.15d-loGeek bar is the greatest invention known to man.
19:44.29Ralithhm?
19:44.32Ralithalso, you're up late
19:44.48``Erikd-lo: eh?
19:45.24d-loGeek Bar = place with 8 presentations going on at the same time, up on big projectors.
19:45.38``Erikahhh, ya out at siggraph, too?
19:45.53d-loCouches, tables, chairs.  Wifi selector audio for picking a presentation to listen to :)
19:45.55Ralithheh
19:45.56d-losure am.
19:46.01Ralithcool!
19:46.02``Erikbastage
19:46.10d-lodances.
19:46.43``Eriklatest jaw jackin' is outer-core.com now, btw
19:47.19CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35452 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: Cleanup based on a clearer understanding of how history should work; error remains.
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20:03.59d-loouter-core.com ?  as in a game?
20:04.32CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35453 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: Command history fully functional.
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21:21.06CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35454 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Console.cxx Console.h): Corrected headers
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21:40.41CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35455 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (5 files): Moved history handling functionality into HistoryLineEdit, a specialized QLineEdit, for reusability.
22:16.29CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35456 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (7 files): Completed a simple commandline popup dialog.
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22:25.19d-lobrlcad:  you going to the Fast Forward tonight?
22:33.51CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35457 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CommandDialog.cxx commanddialog.ui): Prettier command dialog popup
22:44.00CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35458 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/mainwindow.ui: Tweaked top GUI bar
22:49.39CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35459 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/MainWindow.cxx: Disabled viewport scrollbars
22:54.43CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35460 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/commanddialog.ui: Prettier still command dialog
23:01.52CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35461 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CommandDialog.cxx CommandDialog.h MainWindow.cxx): Ensured command line popup entry field receives keyboard focus whenever the dialog itself receives focus.
23:37.00brlcadd-lo: the fast forward is one of the 'must's' I mentioned
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23:47.46brlcadhopefully you're here/there now :)
23:49.10``Erikbastages
23:49.41brlcadthree really interesting nurbs papers
23:49.59``Erikbring back books for indianlarry
23:50.15brlcadbooks?
23:50.28``Erikthe bigassed book ya get with all the papers
23:50.58brlcadah
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23:51.21brlcadshould be getting the encore set too
23:51.22``Erikwill want to thumb the materials, as well
23:57.55b0efwhat's all this qt stuff going into the repository; is there a qt interface being built?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090804

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090804

00:06.13``Erikthe rt^3 repo has an ogre+qt4 interface in development
00:06.33``Erikas an external experimental project, not part of the project proper :)
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03:01.43CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35462 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 5 dirs): updating mged's display while dm-rtgl does ray tracing; removing tgc logs when using dm-rtgl
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04:52.58yukonbobevening, cadheads
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17:51.27*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.8 posted (20090511) || GSoC2009 Next Step: code code, type type, commit frequently while you work! update wiki/blog on daily progress.
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19:58.31CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35466 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c: Added more descriptive help to some functions
20:08.25Ralithstarseeker: hey, up now
20:08.36Ralithmust have forgotten that file
20:08.51Ralithyyyep
20:08.52Ralithmy bad
20:09.53Ralithstarseeker: also, bear in mind the sleight of hand that makes Ogre cooperate is platform-specific and will need to be implemented for OSX
20:10.02Ralithit's fairly simple to do so, though
20:10.10Ralith(or is for windows and linux anyway)
20:10.20CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35467 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (OgreGraphicsView.cxx OgreGraphicsView.h): Added a few forgotten files
20:10.42Ralithsince all you need to do is call the equivalent of glXMakeCurrent and set up the Ogre config at the right time
20:11.15Ralithstarseeker: in the medium/long term it would still be worth giving the Ogre-centric approach another try, btw, for simplicity's and perhaps performance's sake
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20:15.00Ralithstarseeker: let me know when you can give it another go.
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20:20.35RalithI suspect the cause here may be that Ogre isn't correctly installing its pkg-config file
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21:02.55CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35468 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libdm/dm-rtgl.c mged/dozoom.c mged/mged.c): ray tracing when few events are being handled
21:47.32talcitewhat's likely to happen if I move files around in the brlcad installation, i.e. bin files to the system bin folder, libs to the system lib folder, etc...
21:47.44talcitelets assume that there's no library conflicts for now
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22:12.23starseekerRalith: OK, got the files - thanks
22:14.10Ralithif you target X11 the Ogre trickery should work; it'd be nice if you could drop in the code to support OSX's native window system, though.
22:15.30CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35469 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: one of the folks from alabama reported that mged is prompting for an attach device even when invoked non-interactively (via python on windows, like sgi cube example).
22:39.08``Eriktalcite: it theoretically SHOULD work, provided the libraries all go into a dir in the LD_LIBRARY_PATH and the tclscript stuff is in the same relative place compared to mged
22:40.14talcite``Erik: and the stuff in /usr/share/plugins, and /usr/share/data?
22:40.58``Erikplugins? O.o the /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad type stuff
22:41.31talcite``Erik: I don't think I can use the brlcad prefix in the package
22:41.43``Erikah, plugins is all archer stuff
22:42.05talcite``Erik: err. I'm not that familiar with brlcad stuff. archer?
22:42.09``Erikgiven the age of BRL-CAD, you're likely to run into serious conflict issues
22:42.26talcite``Erik: yeah, I'm going to see which conflicts occur and whether we can get around them
22:42.45``ErikFreeBSD recognized it and permitted /usr/local/brlcad/ pretty easily, gentoo fought it tooth and nail and I THINK finally ceded (or it went stale, I don't recall)
22:42.54talcitestale I think
22:43.14talciteI dont' know what fedora would do. I have a feeling their policy is even tougher than gentoo's
22:43.47talciteRedhat sources their enterprise stuff from fedora, so it's a pretty tight ship
22:43.48``Erikmeh, I made the rpm spec file, but never tried to push it into an upstream repo
22:43.53``Erikum
22:44.15``Erikredhat made their enterprise stuff, and then spun off fedora from the 'regular' series because they didn't want to support it anymore
22:44.37``Erikand they're very much NOT tight from my experience :)
22:45.11talcite``Erik: ahh. yes. But fedora's turned out to be their testing base now. They pull fedora releases and work out all the kinks from what I understand
22:45.32``Erikhm, I kinda quit following redhat a bit back *shrug*
22:45.58``Erik4 was the last I had on a personal machine :) then I went to debian, then fbsd
22:46.07talcitewhoa. they're on 11 now =D
22:46.41talciteit's matured quite a bit. I left ubuntu for fedora because I found it more stable and better supported
22:46.48``Erikyeah, I've used fedora 9 and rhel 4 and 5... just haven't felt it was worth half a shit to have on one of my own boxes
22:47.18talciteheh. I've never tried a *BSD. I'm not sure if I can get use to it after the RHEL experience
22:47.24``Erik<-- os bigot, has migrated pretty far into the bsd world
22:48.04``ErikI know, man, after you drive a beat up yugo, you just can't handle something like a porsche or aston martin...
22:48.07``ErikO:-)
22:48.10talcitehaha
22:48.52talcitewell anyways, I'll see what happens if I move things around
22:49.09talciteI need to find a way to move files by bulk in a spec file. There's too many to do one by one
22:49.39talcitebrb
22:49.42``Erikit SHOULD work, but iirc, mged has an idea of where it lives and looks for it's datadir relative to where it THINKS it should be
22:49.47``Erikmv *? heh
22:49.53``Erikor give a --prefix in the build command
22:50.16``Erikmisc/brlcad.spec.in is what I had
22:50.17talcite=S you mean mged is hard coded? argh
22:50.41talcitewell lets see how bad it is
22:50.49talciteI'll probably be back with a bunch of errors
22:50.56``Erikum, using DATADIR and relative paths I think
22:50.57talcitehopefully not with a non-functional system =D
22:51.04talciteDESTDIR you mean?
22:52.51``Erikum, I'm looking around now
22:55.52``Eriklikes like the magic fu is in mged_setup()
22:56.45``Erikas contructed in libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c
22:57.45``Erikwhich is fed from src/libbu/brlcad_path.c
22:59.01``Erikso it's looking for something along the lines of `dirname mged`/../share/ ...
23:00.02``Erikso yeah, where the tclscripts reside relative to the mged binary should stay the same
23:00.34``Erikstill thinks just giving it the proper prefix stuff to begin with would be the best way to go, though
23:28.06siggraphtalcite: if you compile brl-cad to go to those places, it should work fine
23:30.38siggraphtalcite: the mantra of resolving the conflicts comes up every time .. they're not readily resolvable (particularly librt) as they are core to our API and cannot/should not be renamed on our end (librt in particular)
23:31.16siggraphthe more usual solution is to install into a subdir of a system dir (e.g., /usr/lib/brlcad/librt.so)
23:31.23siggraphcommon with a varity of packages that have a lot of libs
23:31.44talcitesiggraph: yup. I'm going to see if fedora devs are willing to budge on it.
23:31.52siggraphnot well tested and might require a few minor mods, but certainly doable
23:38.02siggraphtalcite: I have to believe that there are not already some subdir libs in fedora...
23:38.45siggraphmy mac system has two dozen alone
23:39.26siggraph(in /usr/lib)
23:39.44talcitesiggraph: yes, fedora has them as well
23:41.03talcitehmm. maybe it's doable
23:43.52siggraphto make it work, you'll probably have to use a prefix of /usr but then specifically override the install prefix on libs -- that way it should still find the tcl data resoures (in /usr/share/brlcad/rel-7.14.10)
23:44.07siggraphreturns to watching the evening animation theater
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090805

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090805

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00:49.33yukonbob<napolean dynamite>lucky</napolean dynamite>
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13:25.31CIA-79BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35470 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/3dm/3dm-g.cpp: Take a first stab at extracting color from the 3dm attributes. Not clear if this is correct yet.
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13:43.41CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35471 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/3dm/3dm-g.cpp: Stuff all the regions created by 3dm-g into one toplevel combination with (for now) the object name being the same as the output filename.
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14:17.42CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35472 10/rt^3/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): added the particle (ID_PARTICLE) primitive
14:20.20CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35473 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/CMakeLists.txt: included the Particle from the core interface in the brlcad.dll
14:26.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35474 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/CMakeLists.txt:
14:26.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: changed project name from brlcad to BRL-CAD
14:26.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: (this influences the default installation directory)
14:32.21CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35475 10/brlcad/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): some experiments with CMakes's install to make my live (i.e. a brlcad.dll distribution) easier
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20:09.11siggraphwaves
20:10.41CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35476 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/brlcad/brlcad.module: Fix: hide additional files on new model submission.
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21:00.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35477 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/themes/fireflystreamcom/ (node-model.tpl.php style.css template.php): Update model themeing (license is a tag)
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21:20.48CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35478 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/modules/tagadelic/tagadelic.module: Fix cache expire bug in tagadelic module.
21:40.34siggraphstarseeker: http://brlcad.org/tmp/brlcad_man_html.zip
21:40.42siggraphuser contributed all of the manual pages converted to html
21:40.49siggraphhe was on windows and needed access
21:41.19siggraphprobably rpetty trivial to do an html to docbook conversion that might form a good basis
21:41.31siggraph(or whomever ese is interested in working on the docs)
21:47.06CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03admin 07 * r21 10more.brlcad.org/: Axis example (update model: BRLCAD processing completed.)
21:51.39CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ebautu 07 * r22 10more.brlcad.org/: Boolean operations (insert model: )
21:53.10CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ebautu 07 * r22 10more.brlcad.org/: Boolean operations (update model: BRLCAD processing completed.)
21:53.16ebautuhurray! it works.
21:53.59ebautulet's try something else.
21:55.43CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03admin 07 * r1 10more.brlcad.org/: admin (logout user)
21:55.58siggrapho.O
21:56.05siggraphcool, ebautu
21:56.09CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03admin 07 * r1 10more.brlcad.org/: admin (login user)
21:56.15ebautu:)
21:56.55siggraphebautu: gave a brief talk about the model repository yesterday -- peaked a bit of interest :)
21:57.16ebautuwhere?
21:57.34siggraphat siggraph
21:57.45siggraphwe had a brl-cad birds of a feather session
22:02.28CIA-38BRL-CAD: 0389.136.118.141 07http://brlcad.org * r1598 10/wiki/More_Changelog: August log
22:05.36CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03admin 07http://more.brlcad.org * r22 10Model repository/: Boolean operations (update model: BRLCAD processing completed.)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090806

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090806

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00:47.09yukonbobsiggraph: what was the BoF like?
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01:32.50CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r35479 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/vmath.h src/proc-db/surfaceintersect.cpp): Added the work horse functions, along with some skeleton code of the surface reconstruction implementation. Also added a few 2 vector versions of the macros present in vmath.h
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02:47.39talciteI've got some funny business going on in the configure script
02:47.53talcitethe --datarootdir option didn't move the /usr/share stuff
02:48.43talcitewould someone be able to check that out for me please? My autotools skills aren't up there yet
02:49.00talcitethe exact option I passed was: --datarootdir=/usr/share/brlcad
02:49.23talciteeverything just showed up in /usr/share
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07:16.54CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35480 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (7 files): Moved log system to QObject signal/slots, resulting in moderate simplification.
07:17.59Ralithsiggraph: piqued*
07:18.03Ralith:D
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13:36.27``Erikhuh, touchable hologram displays on demo at siggraph? O.o
13:40.02_clock_Holy from the Red Dwarf?
13:40.33_clock_``Erik: what resolution does it have? 1024x1024x768?
13:41.21``Erikd'no, just saw the blurb on slashdot, didn't dig into it
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14:15.40Axman6``Erik: i saw the video, it looks like it would be pretty damn awesome
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18:55.33CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35481 10/isst/trunk/src/ (gui.c isst.h): eliminate the "worker" entry in the struct and spawn the thread only when network mode is selected
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20:00.41CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35482 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/MainWindow.cxx: First attempt to make the command dialog movable; no apparent effect.
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22:36.17talcitealright! I got the package configured properly The directory structure should be good!
22:36.25talciteLets package this up and submit for review =D
22:36.37talciteoh also, there's a bug with the --datarootdir configure option
22:36.56talciteit doesn't do anything, and the configure --help gives the wrong information
22:43.34talciteIs there any reason why the headers would be needed to be packaged? If not, I'll just exclude them
23:19.50``Erikif people want to build against the library set, they're kinda needed
23:29.20talcitehmm yeah, I guess so
23:29.58talciteI'm probably going to get questions about this: Are all the files in /usr/bin meant to be executed by users?
23:30.19talciteI'll need to move them to /usr/libexec if they're not
23:33.37siggraphtalcite: libexec?  yes, they're all user-tools .. there just happens to be 400 of them
23:34.29talcitehaha ok. Well I'll let the package reviewers know =D
23:36.33siggraphpretty cool that you got it all working
23:36.42siggraphi'll have to talk to you some more later about the datarootdir
23:38.22``Erikdidja get to play with the tactile hologram thingie?
23:38.47``Erik(seems that's the show stealing toy this year)
23:40.44talcite``Erik: haven't tried the features all out yet. I'm mostly working on getting the thing packaged =P. I'll need to give it a good test to make sure I didn't break anything though
23:41.14siggraph``Erik: /. over-hype .. one of the least interesting things in e-tech
23:42.16siggraphtalcite: good test, run 'benchmark' from /tmp and run mged
23:43.08talcitesiggraph: sure. I'm just doing a rebuild right now to remove all the .la and static libs right now. Hopefully nothing blows up
23:43.16siggraphin mged, can run "opendb test.g ; make sph sph ; e sph ; rt sph"
23:45.11``Erik'cept more like "opendb test.g ; mkae sph sph ; rt"
23:45.31``Eriks/ka/ak/
23:45.59talcitewait, there's 2 different ones
23:46.29``Eriktwo different whats?
23:47.01talcite2 different commands. What's the difference between the 2, and which one would indicate a successful build?
23:49.00``ErikO.o which 2 different commands? *confused*
23:51.19talcitewhat's s/ka/ak/?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090807

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090807

00:01.21``Erikuh, sed expression to swap ka and ka
00:01.23``Erikak
00:01.33``Erik"opendb test.g ; make sph sph ; rt" was what I meant
00:45.50talciteoh ok
00:50.36talciteman these builds are taking a long time =P
00:51.23talcitethe rpm build process needs to do the whole thing from sh autogen.sh each time I make a mistake in the spec file =/
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02:18.08``Eriksooooo stop making mistakes? :D
02:58.10talcitehaha oh man...
02:58.18talcitethese are really expensive mistakes =(
03:02.04talcitetime expensive I suppose
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06:44.17CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35483 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/MainWindow.cxx: Make MainWindow better behaved about cleaning up.
06:48.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35484 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/main.cxx: Take advantage of cleanup code in MainWindow. Not strictly necessary, but probably good practice.
06:50.21Ralithtalcite__: eh, find something interesting to do while it builds; that way waiting won't take any extra time
06:50.29Ralithstarseeker: did you ever give g3d another try?
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15:07.08starseekerRalith: no, not yet - remember, I can't get ogre detection to work
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16:27.29starseekerblinks: http://groups.google.com/group/osg-users/brows_thread/thread/d8c744a589ac0782
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17:06.13CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35485 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/load_g.c: push adrt_mesh_t* instead of char*, librender expects it.
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17:56.34CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35486 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: fix off by one bug in .g network request
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18:42.00CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35487 10/isst/trunk/utils/Makefile.am: don't build these.
18:42.56CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35488 10/isst/trunk/src/load_g.c: add load_g.c from brlcad/src/adrt/slave/load_g.c with minor tweaks
18:44.12CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35489 10/isst/trunk/ (configure.ac src/Makefile.am src/gui.c src/isst.h src/sql.c): disable MySQL completely. add local render shtuff. add load_g shtuff.
18:50.31CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35490 10/isst/trunk/src/ (Makefile.am gui.c isst.h main.c sql.c sql.h): completely erradicate MySQL references.
19:29.21CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35491 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/load_g.c: re-add lost vert_count
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20:04.59starseekermafm: hmm, I'll try again later - BRL-CAD + OpenSceneGraph
20:05.09starseekerhas to type it - copy/paste isn't working
20:13.17Ralithstarseeker: I thought you worked around that.  Anyway, does pkg-config find Ogre when called directly?
20:23.02starseekerRalith: seems to
20:23.06starseekertries again
20:44.28starseekerblinks: http://groups.google.com/group/osg-users/browse_thread/thread/d8c744a589ac0782
20:45.21starseekermafm:  does that work?
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20:55.45``Erikerm
20:55.56``Eriksets jdoliner's ropes on fire
20:58.08jdoliner:)
20:58.18jdolineri see you read hacker news as well
20:58.56``Erikyeah, beats slashdot (though it's been getting oversaturated lately)
20:59.57jdolineryeah I'd like to see some more papers on erlang, that should keep the crowds at bay
21:00.25``Erikit used to be a bunch of lisp weenies, now it's overflowing with python and ruby twats
21:00.31``ErikO:-)
21:25.36*** join/#brlcad talcite_ (n=matthew@69-165-164-10.dsl.teksavvy.com)
21:25.55CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35492 10/isst/trunk/src/load_g.c: add tie_prep and update vert_count
21:26.41CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35493 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: rework local rendering facilities. it now displays .g geometry!
23:02.03*** join/#brlcad schwinn434 (n=schwinn4@75.81.202.25)
23:34.38mafmstarseeker: yup, that works
23:44.38CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35494 10/isst/trunk/src/ (load_g.c main.c): include pthread.h for the mutex stuff.
23:54.28``Erikwwbd - what would beavis do
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090808

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090808

01:25.55*** join/#brlcad talcite_ (n=matthew@69-165-160-238.dsl.teksavvy.com)
02:31.56CIA-38libirc: 03mm_202 * r374 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCEvents.h src/irClientEvents.cpp): Fixed a bug with eIRCNickNameChange and some typos.
04:12.28*** part/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-75-169.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
04:20.41Ralithobserves that an Ogre bug appears to be responsible for a segfault on g3d shutdown
04:20.49Ralithoh well; relatively harmless place
04:35.02*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
05:48.38Ralithpokes starseeker
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09:24.06CIA-38BRL-CAD: 0389.146.77.180 07http://brlcad.org * r1599 10/wiki/User:272_buy_antivert:
09:49.25*** join/#brlcad talcite_ (n=matthew@76-10-170-105.dsl.teksavvy.com)
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19:08.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35495 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/mainwindow.ui: Added a shortcut key (C) to command dialog popup.
19:11.38Ralithsiggraph: spam alert: http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:272_buy_antivert
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090809

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090809

01:29.23*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=WarLock@bas2-sudbury98-1178014809.dsl.bell.ca)
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02:45.17RalithI couldn't find a way to delete articles altogether as a plain user
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15:59.23``Erikhttp://www.cesaretto.it/usb-cpu-meter/
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22:22.52CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:1qt2bt7nhzotm12]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled, e-mail blocked): Spamming links to external sites
22:23.39CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/delete:
22:23.39CIA-38BRL-CAD: deleted "[[User:1qt2bt7nhzotm12]]": content was: 'In the romance of true love
22:23.39CIA-38BRL-CAD: even when the wooer was middle-aged. She had been travelling in the Far East
22:23.39CIA-38BRL-CAD: when the belated news of Margaret's death ca...' (and the only contributor was
22:23.39CIA-38BRL-CAD: '[[Special:Contributions/1qt2bt7nhzotm12|1qt2bt7nhzotm12]]')
22:25.39CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:368 buy claritin]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
22:25.48CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:215 buy oxytrol]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled, e-mail blocked)
22:26.10CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:855 buy dipyridamole]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled, e-mail blocked)
22:26.29CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:564 buy starlix]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
22:27.13CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:99 buy trental]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
22:27.20CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:472 buy daily best cats beef]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
22:27.21CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:256 buy haldol]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090810

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090810

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06:46.43mariooliveirahi.is there a way to show my 3d models over internet without any specific program
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07:40.14talcite_damnit. I have rpath problems
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11:25.49d-lomernin all.
11:47.52CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r35496 10/rt^3/trunk/include/uuid/uuid_vers.h: Fixed small typo. Somehow, this escaped all the builds prior to this. Fixed now.
11:50.40CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r35497 10/rt^3/trunk/src/adminpanel/: Add in dir for admin panel application.
12:06.41CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r35498 10/rt^3/trunk/src/CMakeLists.txt: Stub basic Admin Control Panel (acp) class/header. Wire into build system.
12:07.19CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r35499 10/rt^3/trunk/src/adminpanel/ (AdminControlPanel.cxx AdminControlPanel.h CMakeLists.txt): Stub basic Admin Control Panel (acp) class/header. Wire into build system.
13:17.20CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r35500 10/rt^3/trunk/src/adminpanel/ (4 files): Adding the ACP Application Entry Point.
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15:51.50CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35501 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: get re-draw working again
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16:31.27elena~log
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18:06.50talcitecan someone help me with removing libtool rpaths in a couple of hours?
18:09.47talciteor would it make more sense for me just to remove them after compilation, and to keep them in the upstream?
18:11.06CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35502 10/isst/trunk/src/load_g.c: quiet down the loader a bit
18:11.46CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35503 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: move local rendering to threaded model (avoid interferring with gui event loop)
18:39.06*** part/#brlcad elena (n=elena@89.136.118.141)
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19:07.22CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35504 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: fix view menu items for local view. Add some basic timing code.
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19:41.24CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35505 10/isst/trunk/src/load_g.c: copy color.
20:18.38CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35506 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/adrt_struct.h: bu_list-ize the mesh struct
21:08.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35507 10/isst/trunk/src/ (gui.c isst.h load_g.c): bu_list-ize the meshes. enable component mode.
21:19.03*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14DE69.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:31.00CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35508 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: start poking cut into place... same weirdness as across the network heh
22:05.52*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-185-57.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
22:23.22talcitehey guys. Are there any plans to handle the deprecated boost libraries?
22:40.23``Erikhopes so
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090811

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090811

00:37.44*** join/#brlcad talcite_ (n=matthew@75-119-228-20.dsl.teksavvy.com)
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02:20.44starseekerpossibly the most absurd vehicle I have ever seen:  http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hummer-H3-Limousine-2008-H3-PINK-HUMMER-LIMOUSINE-LIMO-LIMOSUITE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem35a28c1bacQQitemZ230360357804QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks
02:23.51``Eriksmells like a "daddy's rich" car
02:24.17starseekerthat's up (or down) there with the Oscar Myer hot dog car
02:24.33``Erikhey now, the weinermobile is COOL
02:25.57``Erikhow else do you get disturbing scenarios like http://wizbangpop.com/images/2009/07/wienermobile%20crash.jpg ? :D
02:26.38starseekeroh my
02:26.57starseekerdoesn't see an ex-military Hummer on ebay... hmm...
02:27.17starseekerthought they sold a few in the early days before GM figured out there was a civilian market...
02:30.53``Erikprobably collectors items now
02:31.17``Erikwonder how many of those 'fall off the truck' O.o
02:37.54starseekerHehe, well, this might be a decent runner up:  http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=2552645&convertTo=USD
02:38.37starseekerHmm, opening bid $150...
02:38.54``Erikheh, looks oddly familiar
02:39.16starseekertalk about an awesome way to update our model...
02:40.16starseekerimagines pulling up to work in that thing...
02:40.25starseeker"no, really, it's my own truck!"
02:41.07starseekerwonders what the gas milage is
02:41.18starseekerI suppose if you have to ask you can't afford to run it...
02:42.09starseekermaybe we can convince Bob he needs it for something
02:45.51``Eriklooks like around 6mpg
02:46.05starseekerwinces
02:46.17starseekerI know - design the world's first hybrid m35
02:46.32starseekerit can't be any more pointless than the pink stretch hummer limo
02:46.39``Erikmax highway speed goes between 45 and 60 depending on grade and shtuff
02:47.04starseekergrins at the idea of going to yard sales in that thing...
02:48.05``Erikhttp://www.bunkerofdoom.com/mil/m35/mileage/mileage.html
02:50.48starseekercool
02:51.04``Erikseems that's the c^3 variant, has a hugeassed box on the back
02:51.07starseekeror, if that's too fuel efficient... http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=2565791&convertTo=USD
02:51.44starseekernods - I think 55mph is low enough that it's up in the air whether weight or wind resistance is the major factor
02:53.20``ErikI d'no, a 10' brick at 55mph is going to have a lot of force on it
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02:54.19starseekerah, yeah, that tall you're probably right
02:54.35starseekershouldn't have wandered onto this site - cool stuff
02:54.40starseekerhttp://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=2550019
02:55.08``Erik210hp and tops at 60, even if it were engine rpm limited, it'd have to have a lot of wind resistance to need that much hp
02:56.17starseekermust be for hauling
02:56.18``Erik(hard finding good info on the m35, apparently infiniti calls one of their cars that)
02:56.57starseekerbemusedly wonders if gcam could be made to work with that milling machine...
02:57.36``Erikhow's this for a sleek street machine.. imagine the awesome CD and such a small front area.. http://www.bunkerofdoom.com/mil/m35/first/319commo_truck_large.jpg
02:58.38starseekerhehehe
02:59.25starseekerwould be worth renting one just to park it next to the BRLCADmobile for a photo
02:59.34``Erikheh
03:01.10``Erikd'no why you'd want a collection of slow vehicles in a single picture, though O:-)
03:03.43starseekerwas thinking - m35 truck == current GUI, Lotus == intended new GUI
03:04.21starseekerick - they apparently sell office equipment by the pallet
03:06.57starseekerblinks at music CDs in one lot
03:07.04starseekerbet there's a good story behind that one
03:12.23starseekerooh, heck-yeah http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=2509637&convertTo=USD&tid=GLSPPR7932&cm_re=1-_-hotlots-_-row3col3
03:16.06starseekeris still a physics nerd at heart
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04:20.35mvm92anyone know any good beginner tutorials for brlcad?
04:55.19talcitehey guys. I need a bit of help with the build process. Is there a part of the program that's being built against libwdb?
04:55.37talciteI'm having build errors after rpaths were removed
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13:28.29CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r35509 10/rt^3/trunk/src/adminpanel/ (7 files): Added a threaded CommandParser and an interface to support abstraction of the object CommandParser passes its commands to. Additionally, added socket Connect and Disconnect commands into AdminControlPanel.
13:32.03CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r35510 10/rt^3/trunk/src/adminpanel/CommandParser.h: reduced visibility of copy constructor and internal command checking function
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14:23.56CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35511 10/rt^3/trunk/src/ (10 files in 10 dirs): support "out of dir" builds
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15:38.45``Eriknice. in rt^3, cmake claims qmake cannot be found, but there it is O.o
15:38.52d-lolawl
15:39.15d-lothe classic helpful post:  Works for me!
15:39.42d-lowhat flava of cmake?
15:40.04``Erikcmake version 2.6-patch 4
15:40.29``Erikah, it's search for qmake 4, but doesn't announce it the messages
15:40.49``Erikon bsd, ois fails to find Xlib.h (it's /usr/local/include/X11/Xlib.h, which confuses things)
15:41.02d-lohrm.
15:41.09d-loand ois is an ogre dep?
15:41.27``Eriksrc/other/ois/
15:41.45d-loright.  I think the only reason its there is because of ogre.  methinks
15:41.59``Erikcomments it out
15:42.33d-loare you builing src/g3d or src/other/ogre?
15:42.44d-los/builing/building/
15:43.18``Eriktoplevel
15:44.03``Erikwill fight it some more O.o
15:45.32``Eriknutty, it actually build
15:45.35``Erikbuilt
15:45.46d-loin the toplevel CMakeLists.txt, add '/usr/local/include/' to the 'INCLUDE_SEARCH_PATHS thingy
15:46.09d-lomebbe that will help it find x11.
15:46.25d-loor did it build it with ois already?
15:47.35``ErikI commented it out
15:47.44CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35512 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/CMakeLists.txt: comment out ois. Not needed for GS, and fails where X is in /usr/local/
15:47.48``Erikit smells very not unix friendly... it's all "linux" crud
15:48.07``Erikdamnit, svn is retarded, I ^c'd that at the very beginning and it still went and did it
15:48.21``Erikheh, and it claims that commit failed.
15:48.35d-loawesome.
15:51.41``Erikheh, it saved it remote but forgot to update the local notion of what exists remotely... transaction fail...
15:51.58``Erikgoes luddite and bunkers in the land of cvs and automake O.o
15:54.52CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r35513 10/rt^3/trunk/CMakeLists.txt: added some search paths for lib/ and include/ detection.
15:59.56``Erikdoesn't seem to fix it O.o
16:00.10d-lok
16:00.30d-lowonders why it works here....
16:02.33d-loso your Xlib.h is in /usr/local/include/X11 and not /usr/include/X11 ?
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17:01.14``Erikyeah
17:02.15``Erikhistorically, /usr/lib was only for system libs, X would go in like /opt/X/lib or /usr/X11R6 or even /etc/X/ ... linux craps everything in the same place :/
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17:16.41louipcetc fir libs!
17:20.11CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r35514 10/rt^3/trunk/ (8 files in 4 dirs): Removal of antiquated classes
17:20.35CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r35515 10/rt^3/trunk/ (8 files in 4 dirs): Implementation of netProto handshaking.
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17:25.20``Eriketc used to be a misc dir, not a config dir... :)
17:30.14talcite_brlcad: ping?
17:40.11``Eriktalcite_work: libwdb? it's a part of BRL-CAD and used by many things...
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18:41.44CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35516 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/librender/cut.c: fix lame bug, make cut work again.
18:42.27talcitedo you guys know when the next release is likely to come out?
18:42.41louipc'soon' :D
18:43.54talcitehaha alright. No rush. I need to weed out all of these rpath problems
18:44.24louipcI guess your packaging will be made slightly easier then eh?
18:44.52talcitewell, it looks better if I'm packaging a release than a SVN revision
18:45.05talcitebut it's not a huge issue, you see SVN packages sometimes in the repos
18:45.24talcitewhat's more pressing though is that rttherm is using rpaths and won't compile without them
18:45.28louipcI hear that itcl/tk will it into mainline tcl/tk
18:45.34louipcthat will be great
18:45.38talcitecool. Yeah
18:45.54louipcyea
18:57.02``Eriknext release should be "any day now", brlcad was trying to push it out before siggraph, but didn't quite manage *shrug* and now I imagine he's in a coma recouping
18:57.17``Erikisn't exactly sure what the stoppers are, or woulda done it last week
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20:45.42elenahi, all.
20:53.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35517 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/librender/cut.c: get visible line rendering again.
20:58.02CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35518 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: adrt split view cutting plane is back. knock it off the list!
21:29.52CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ebautu 07http://more.brlcad.org * r23 10Model repository/: bldg391 (insert model: )
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21:31.32CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ebautu 07http://more.brlcad.org * r24 10Model repository/: Havoc (insert model: )
21:33.08CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ebautu 07http://more.brlcad.org * r25 10Model repository/: Tank car (insert model: )
22:01.13CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03 07http://more.brlcad.org * r23 10Model repository/: bldg391 (update model: BRLCAD processing completed.)
22:06.39CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03 07http://more.brlcad.org * r24 10Model repository/: Havoc (update model: BRLCAD processing completed.)
22:08.07CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03 07http://more.brlcad.org * r25 10Model repository/: Tank car (update model: BRLCAD processing completed.)
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22:55.09``Erikhuh, a seggie
22:55.27starseekersegway? ;-)
22:56.55``Erikheh, didja see paul grahams essay about segways? and the ensuing nerdrama?
22:57.27starseekerno - where's that?
22:57.49starseekeroh, nice work with the cuting plane
22:58.07``Erikum, paulgraham.com/essays/ ? :)
22:58.18``Erikwas on hn a bit ago
22:58.39``Erik(all things pg are on hn... irritating how much cocksucking goes on there)
22:58.55``Erikyeah, heh.. the cutting plane... turns out that (a+b)*c != a+(b*c)
22:58.57``ErikO:-)
22:59.58starseekerow
23:00.08starseekerwhen did that sneak in?
23:00.26starseekerwants to see a demo :-))
23:01.29``Erikum, there were a bunch of a[0] += c*b[0]; etc, and I grabbed VADD2SCALE() not paying attention to the parens
23:01.35``Erikfile was riddle with those, musta had an off day
23:01.39starseekerah
23:01.47starseekercan I run it yet?
23:01.56starseekerlooks for binary...
23:01.58``Erikinstall the latest brlcad, install isst, put ktank.g in /tmp/ and run isst
23:02.20``Erikleft click zooms in and out, right click rotates, middle click pans
23:02.25starseekeris isst in its own tree?
23:02.28``Erikyeah
23:02.31``Erikrequires gtk+
23:02.52starseekerah
23:03.19``Erikalso requires /usr/brlcad/include and /usr/brlcad/lib/librt.{so,dylib,dll}
23:04.22``Erik(if I recall my winderz, it SHOULD compile just fine with msvc or mingw, but if you happen to know the fu to try to make it go into distributed mode, it'll fail due to WSAStartup() not being called)
23:06.26``Erik(given the cracking of the hard outer shell, btw, I would like a chatter session among the BRL-CAD cabal in the very near future...)
23:06.49jdolinerhey can anyone explain to me how to use user values in opennurbs
23:07.30``Erikfile:line ?
23:08.08``Erik<-- doesn't know, but is good at mindlessly jabbering, things he managed to help indianlarry with a fugly c++ oddity in spite of being anti-c++ :)
23:09.26jdolineryou can find them in opennurbs_x.h line:338
23:09.36jdolinerthere are of type ON_U
23:09.43jdolinerwhich I can't find declared anywhere
23:12.19starseekerjdoliner: what are you trying to do?
23:12.27starseekeris it something not in opennurbs_userdata.h?
23:13.13starseekerperhaps example_userdata/example_userdata.cpp has something helpful?
23:13.21jdolinerthanks let me check that
23:15.55jdolinerI could be really wrong but I think user data is a different thing
23:16.06starseekerisn't sure
23:16.25jdolinerm_user is supposed to be just a scratch field on some of their classes
23:16.31``Erikum
23:16.39jdolinerall I'm doing is setting it to a number and then checking which number I set it to
23:16.45starseekerI see it used only in brep.h and brep.cpp
23:17.16starseekerwhat are you trying to achieve?
23:18.40jdolinerbasically I have an array of ON_X_EVENTS that record intersections between a pair of 2dcurves and the respective trims in the faces they're going to go into
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23:18.55jdolinerI use that field to record which curve the intersection occurred in
23:19.04jdolinercurve1 or curve2
23:19.09starseekerHmm.  I doubt that's the right place...
23:19.11``Erikok, it IS compiled, must be a generated symbol
23:20.05jdolinerthe error i'm getting is when i do m_user == 0
23:20.05starseekerjdoliner: any reason you can't hang that info on the BRL-CAD primitive as an attribute?
23:20.43``ErikON_U is cooked up as a union
23:20.56jdolineroh
23:21.02jdolinerso if I do m_user.int
23:21.08jdolinerthen it will cast it as an int
23:21.15``Erikopennurbs_define.h:204
23:22.07jdolineraha
23:22.18jdolinerthat should do it then
23:22.23``Erikdoesn't answer starseekers question, though
23:22.26jdolinerI'm not sure how I managed to miss that with my search
23:22.27jdolineryes
23:22.37``Erikthat's how to fix it, but ... is that REALLY what you want to do?
23:22.44jdolineris there a brl-cad ON_X_EVENT primitive?
23:22.55jdolineri'm a little foggy on what you meant by that
23:23.44``Erikis unfamiliar with "ON_X_EVENT"
23:24.03``Eriktranslate to non-opennurbs, please? :)
23:24.05jdolinerON_X_EVENT is a record of an intersection between 2 curves
23:24.14jdolineror between a curve and a surface
23:24.34jdolinerit has all the relevant information bundled up in it
23:25.00jdolinerbeing the points of intersection themselves
23:25.07``Erikok, so literally "opennurbs cross event"?
23:25.08jdolinerthe paramaters they occurred at
23:25.14jdolineryeah
23:25.26``Erikmy initial reading was "if something happens in X windows" :)
23:25.48``Erik(erm, X windowing system, or X... don't flame me)
23:25.50jdolineryeah, I actually thought that to at fiest
23:26.22jdolinerso they also have a field m_user
23:26.36``Erikwell, there ya is... it's a raw union... those're dangerous as they lack any kinda magic to do checking on :/
23:26.37jdolinerwhich is just a scratch field for anything you might want to use it for
23:27.01``Erika common C pattern is struct poo_s { int magic; union v { ... } };
23:27.33``Erikthen you can switch(mypoo.magic){ case SOMETHING: mypoo.v.something = x; ... }
23:28.03jdolineryeah I agree it's dangerous, here's why I think it will be okay
23:28.58``Erik*shrug* ya don't have to defend yourself
23:29.05``ErikI'm just pointing out the danger :)
23:29.06jdolinerthese values are all set within a class and then used read out by that same class, the ON_X_EVENTS are never touched by outside functions
23:29.21jdolineroh but I like to
23:29.46jdolinerI'd defend myself to my goldfish or something if I didn't have real people
23:29.56jdolinerI always wind up noticing flaws that way
23:30.47``Erikif you grep the BRL-CAD, you'll find quite a few instances of goto... *shrug* personally, I'm reluctant to permit them in anything I touch, but sometimes you gotta go use something that is generally considered evil
23:31.02``Eriks/,/ src,/
23:31.55``Erik(naked unions stink to me, it's damn cheap to shove a union in a struct with a type field)
23:41.08``Erikstarseeker: did you manage to get it up and running?
23:43.15starseekernah, I'm on a mac which (afaik) has no gtk install
23:43.25starseekerwill try it at home
23:46.19``Erikah, bummer
23:46.47starseeker``Erik: so now you're essentiall as robust as our tesselation?
23:46.48``Erikyou're still at the office?
23:46.52starseekeryep
23:46.57``Erikum, for the most part, I think...
23:47.07``Erikthere're still modes which'll call bu_bomb
23:47.09starseekerjust got here not too long ago - it's been a crazy day
23:47.20``Erikuse bobs linux box? :)
23:47.24starseekerheh
23:47.59``ErikI want to re-write teh gui to use tk and libfb, so I can put it right in BRL-CAD :/
23:48.14starseekernods
23:48.20starseekersee if you can integrate it with Archer
23:48.30``Erikand enable a plugin system that sends the "mode specific" panel via tk across the wire
23:48.33starseekerttk widgets Suck (slightly) Less (tm)
23:50.25``Erik(frankly, it's neat and all, but I"d like to get it spooled where someone else is dicking with it and I can go do other things...)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090812

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090812

00:19.34``Erikhttp://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=756760
00:19.52``Erik"if p=np, mathematics as a field would be destroyed"
00:26.35starseeker``Erik: I don't see why.  How would problems that are currently labeled "NP" get easier?  They're not labeled NP for nothing - if "p=np" in some theoretical sense it still doesn't get the problem solved of WHAT the solution is...
00:29.15``Erikseemed like an article that might strike a chord with some folk around here, I ain't takin' a side, don't shoot the messenger
00:29.59starseekerheh
00:30.01starseekerfair enough
00:32.25``Erik(shit, I haven't even read the article, I was pulling a slashdot move there..)
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04:38.45CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35519 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: rtedge shoots twice as many rays as it needs to, shooting the 'below' ray for each primary since it's on a diff scanline/cpu. should be restructured to not do that..
05:00.36CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35520 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs):
05:00.36CIA-38BRL-CAD: make the rtgl display manager update interactively at a minimum of 10fps instead
05:00.36CIA-38BRL-CAD: of 1fps by calling rt_get_timer(). remove the blocking flag by making the run
05:00.36CIA-38BRL-CAD: loop just check whether jobs are remaining and using a tcl idle loop to allow it
05:00.36CIA-38BRL-CAD: to render.
05:01.57CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35521 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/bomb.c: move the vars into the if loop just to keep the top scope even more 'pure'
05:02.31CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35522 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewedge.c: a_user is unused, so stop setting it
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09:11.46CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03elena 07http://more.brlcad.org * r25 10Model repository/: Tank car (update model: BRLCAD processing completed.)
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10:00.41CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35523 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GedCommand.cxx GedCommand.h GedCommands.h): Simplified GED command handling; errors are now normal command output.
10:02.50CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35524 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: Made entered commands visible in command output area.
10:05.26CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35525 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: Scrapped no-longer-useful (and noopish) Console setup code.
10:13.39CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35526 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Console.cxx Console.h): First attempt at adding a "> " prompt to the command line to match output; needs polish.
10:14.31CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35527 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: Minor polishing.
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21:40.22CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35528 10/isst/trunk/src/ (gui.c isst.h): redo function signature for multiple toplevels
21:40.40CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35529 10/isst/trunk/src/load_g.c: redo function signature for multiple toplevels. begin fast/loose bot loading
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10:06.44brlcadneat, ogre made the top 25 projects on sf.net
10:08.28_clock_ogre is part of brlcad?
10:08.48_clock_brlcad: last weekend I was in the Nazi military rocket technology museum in Peenemuende
10:09.09_clock_Saw V-1, V-2, huge Russian diesel submarine, Berlin wall and the Checkpoint Charlie
10:10.10_clock_it was all very interesting
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14:36.59starseekerhmm, this SISL nurbs library is interesting - too bad it's GPL
14:37.14starseekermight have some helpful algorithms we could re-implement...
15:28.06CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35530 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: Start adding a little of the boilerplate for brep tesselation.
15:31.37brlcadsisl?
15:31.48brlcadfound em'
15:32.16brlcad"Curve/surface intersections for both NURBS and analytical geometry"  <-- interesting
15:33.13starseekerrelatively obscure
15:33.22starseekerbut sounds quite interesting
15:33.29brlcadyou've seen this, yes?  http://cg.cs.uni-bonn.de/aigaion2root/attachments/balazs-2004-efficient.pdf
15:33.47brlcadthey're the original paper that related to the rt06 work
15:34.15starseekeryes, I think that's actually the one I mentioned to ed
15:34.29starseekerthey're the fast one?
15:35.07brlcadyeah
15:35.13starseekernods
15:35.54brlcadthey tessellate the entire vehicle in little over a minute
15:36.00brlcad3 million polygons
15:36.26brlcadwith sub-mm accuracy
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17:47.12d-lo``Erik: you around?
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18:45.34CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35531 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: fixed typo causing compile error
18:54.03*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
18:55.53CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35532 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): simplified rtgl refresh code, changed calculation of grid dimensions, dynamically scaling point width
19:14.02*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=talcite@134.117.108.108)
19:23.56talcitebrlcad, ping?
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19:51.09CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r35533 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (brep_cube.cpp surfaceintersect.cpp surfaceintersect.h):
19:51.09CIA-38BRL-CAD: Adds a new class to keep track of intersections between ON_BrepFaces. These
19:51.09CIA-38BRL-CAD: classes record the intersection curves, segment the curves based on the trimming
19:51.09CIA-38BRL-CAD: curves of the faces they came from, and slates the trim curves that got
19:51.10CIA-38BRL-CAD: intersected for destruction. Also adds in the functionality needed to sort
19:51.12CIA-38BRL-CAD: curves by start and end point and so that they can be matched and reconstructed
19:51.14CIA-38BRL-CAD: in to trims.
19:57.31``Erikstupid comcrap
19:58.54jdolinercomcrap = comcast?
20:01.11``Erikyeah
20:01.36jdolinerI agree they're quite crappy
20:24.58CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r35534 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/surfaceintersect.cpp: Changes SurfaceSurface intersect into FaceFaceIntersect and uses the new Face_X_Event class to return its results
20:57.00CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35535 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: removed some unecessary type conversions
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21:09.13CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35536 10/isst/trunk/src/load_g.c: fast loading of BoT and NMG
21:51.07CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35537 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GedData.h: Scrap unnecessary safeguards
21:57.00CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35538 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GedCommands.h: First attempt at adding additional GED commands. Uncertain success.
22:01.57*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
22:03.53talcitehey guys. So I've traced the rpath problem down to the configure file. I can't figure out what's generating them though. Does anyone know where it's coming from? configure.ac didn't give anything
22:04.17talcitespecifically, libtools is being invoked with the -rpath option
22:04.41talciteI can't for the life of me figure out where that option is being added by automake though
22:04.47talciteerr autotools*
22:07.30*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
22:12.21CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35539 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CommandInterpreter.cxx GedCommands.h): Fixed command and argument parsing; open appears to now be functional.
22:13.58CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35540 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GedCommands.h: Dropped ged_ prefix from numerous commands.
22:16.15Raliththis is odd
22:16.46Ralith'open foo.g' somehow results in a file named "foo.\x0030"
22:16.54brlcadopendb
22:17.07Ralith?
22:17.08*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
22:17.13brlcadopendb is the libged command name
22:17.23brlcad'open' is a tcl command name..
22:17.36RalithI don't see the string 'opendb' anywhere in ged.h
22:17.42Ralithmy install is a bit old, though
22:17.47RalithI'm calling ged_reopen
22:18.22Ralithhm
22:18.25Ralithquestion
22:18.48Ralithshould I just scrap all this in favor of a full on mged-style TCL interpreter?
22:18.59Ralith(to be later expanded to $LANGUAGE_OF_CHOICE interpreter)
22:22.29*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
22:26.35Ralithhm
22:26.42Ralithbuild of SVN failed: config.status: error: cannot find input file: src/other/blt/library/pkgIndex.tcl.in
22:26.49Ralith(during ./configure)
22:32.48starseekerRalith: blt is gone
22:33.06starseekernot sure why your configure is still looking for it
22:33.24Ralithcleansup
22:37.40CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35541 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: Fixed handling of multiline command output.
22:39.07Ralithokay, configure works now
22:42.20CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35542 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CommandInterpreter.cxx GedCommands.h): Fixed argument count checking for a few commands, renamed open to opendb, and tweaked help.
22:45.31``Erikralith: it's not in libged, it's in src/mged/mged.c
22:45.58Ralith``Erik: so why's brlcad telling me it's a libged command name O.o
22:47.10``Erikprobably cuz it SHOULD be, but I'm looking at the guts at line 2500 in src/mged/mged.c :)
22:47.15Ralithhehe
22:47.21Ralithso is ged_reopen the right func then?
22:48.42Ralithurgh.
22:48.45Ralithmake[2]: *** No rule to make target `mirror.c', needed by `mirror.lo'.  Stop.
22:49.14``Erik<-- doesn't know if it's the right func, doesn't muck with shtuff in that part :)
22:49.38Ralithcleans moar
22:50.22Ralithargh, that just broke it more.
22:50.41Ralithoh wait, nvm
22:55.17brlcadRalith: hm, good questions
22:55.28brlcadi forgot that mafm made it call individual specific commands
23:04.30Ralithit seems like it might be pretty hard to duplicate the mged command interface and then keep it in sync (not to mention redundant)
23:04.45Ralithso perhaps it's best left as-is until we have an abstracted scripting/binding system
23:18.12brlcadRalith: there's a critical piece missing from libged at the moment, that's what you should (eventually) be using
23:18.20brlcadso yeah, probably wouldn't worry about it at the moment
23:18.39Ralithokie.
23:20.04Ralithbrlcad: so is ged_reopen the right func to use for now?
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23:51.12brlcadRalith: yeah, it's ged_reopen
23:51.25Ralithkk
23:51.55RalithI'm pretty sure I'm correctly passing it a filename; don't suppose you have any idea why it ends up so screwy?
23:52.05Ralith(i.e. foo.g -> foo.\x030
23:52.06Ralith)
23:52.21Ralithor something like that
23:52.38Ralithsame thing seems to happen for anything after the . less than four or so characters
23:52.42brlcadprobably some bug :)
23:52.51Ralithwill dig around in libged for it, then
23:53.23brlcadsrc/libged/open.c
23:54.24brlcadunfortunately, I'm not sure what uses that yet
23:54.34brlcadi thought archer does/did.. but I'm not seeing how it's tied in yet
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090814

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090814

00:02.01brlcadah, so I think I see how it's tied in yet .. don't think anything else is using ged_reopen just yet so it very well could be incomplete
00:03.16brlcadmged does it's own thing (see f_opendb() in src/mged/mged.c) and archer goes through the old display object interface (src/libged/dg_obj.c)
00:03.35brlcadso might want to reconcile what f_opendb() is doing with what ged_reopen() is doing
00:03.50brlcads/might want/you need/ :)
00:04.38brlcadtalcite: pongish
00:05.38brlcadtalcite: what rpath "problem"?  rpaths are set by libtool, which are managed primarily by automake built-in macro expansions
00:06.05brlcadyou shouldn't be mucking with the rpaths else you will likely encounter dragons
00:07.50brlcad``Erik: you can register a bu_bomb handler to tell it to keep going (if you haven't figured that out by now)
00:08.02``Erikhrm? whu?
00:08.06brlcad(related to earlier tessellation talkage)
00:08.32``Erik<-- doesn't recall which tessellation talkage
00:08.59brlcadtk+libfb ftw
00:09.06``Erikheh
00:10.03``Eriktk is making me a sad panda
00:10.27``ErikI can't rotate objects in mged anymore, it executes on mouse down instead of mouse up, so it reads it as a zoom in command
00:16.13brlcadwonders if jdoliner wins when he defends himself to his goldfish
00:16.37``Erikobviously you haven't talked to joe much ;> *duck*
00:17.06``Erikit is gettin' to be wrapup time, though
00:17.40brlcadthere aren't any release stoppers that I know of, so we should be good to release .. it has just been coma/sinus recouping .. *ship it!*
00:18.30brlcadughs at the automatic search paths being added for X content instead of specifying or detecting
00:19.05brlcadfinishes spewing from recent backlog
00:19.26brlcad``Erik: you're on 10.5 right?
00:19.36``Erikyeah, but I'm seeing the behavior on both .5 and .4
00:19.53``Erik(if you're asking about the mouse rotate issue)
00:20.04``Erikalso; opendb /path/to/castle.g ; E all.g
00:20.07``Erik:D
00:20.10brlcadnick found a way to hit keys before/during the mouse events that lets him rotate smooth
00:20.13brlcadtricking it
00:20.30``Erikeh?
00:20.35brlcador there's hitting the xyzXYZ keys
00:21.20brlcadand yeah, just a couple more days before pens down
00:21.27``ErikI don't fire up mged often enough to worry, and almost never e anything up... was just something I kinda noticed, not sure if it's due to something funky on my stuff or an actual issue
00:21.44*** join/#brlcad Patmcc19_ (n=chatzill@174-17-172-168.phnx.qwest.net)
00:21.53brlcadyeah, I had a regress test that took each of our example .g files and would tessellate each one .. it was too painful to commit
00:22.06brlcadthe crash is new
00:22.07``Erikhehehe
00:22.37brlcadi think that input problem is probably a release stopper for mac binaries
00:22.51brlcadi fixed all the other mac problems
00:22.59brlcadbut hadn't got to that one before siggraph
00:23.12brlcadnot enough to stop a source release though, nothing new
00:24.16``Erikhm, the null hack for linux finally got on smacksnot
00:29.10``Erikhuh, a retrograde orbiting exoplanet (amazing how little we know about exoplanets... we only know the orbit direction for a dozen or so?)
00:40.01CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r35543 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/bigE.c: "E" command was always failing because it was not adding solids to the "ged_display_list". Now adds the solids.
00:41.14``Erikhah
00:41.18``Erikthat'd be the castle crash, I bet
00:46.48brlcadgo go gadget anderson
01:07.10``Erikthey're making a game... knocking off a movie... knocking off an 80's cartoon...
01:07.20``Erikknocking off a 50's toy
01:07.47``Erik60's, sorry
01:08.24``Erik(knocking off a 60's tv show I'd never heard of)
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03:24.22``Erikls
03:24.25``Erikdoh
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06:58.46elena~log
07:12.54brlcad~logs
07:12.55ibotAll conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged.
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08:44.01CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35544 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/ (30 files in 3 dirs): Implemented links for sharing services.
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09:10.09CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03admin 07http://more.brlcad.org * r21 10Model repository/: Axis example (update model: BRLCAD processing completed.)
09:10.21CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03admin 07http://more.brlcad.org * r22 10Model repository/: Boolean operations (update model: BRLCAD processing completed.)
09:10.24CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03admin 07http://more.brlcad.org * r23 10Model repository/: bldg391 (update model: BRLCAD processing completed.)
09:10.37CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03admin 07http://more.brlcad.org * r24 10Model repository/: Havoc (update model: BRLCAD processing completed.)
09:10.44CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03admin 07http://more.brlcad.org * r25 10Model repository/: Tank car (update model: BRLCAD processing completed.)
09:12.15CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03ebautu * r35545 10/web/trunk/htdocs/more/sites/all/themes/fireflystreamcom/node-model.tpl.php: Fix links themeing for anonymous users.
09:13.24CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03admin 07http://more.brlcad.org * r25 10Model repository/: Tank car (update model: )
09:14.09CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03admin 07http://more.brlcad.org * r24 10Model repository/: Havoc (update model: )
09:14.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03admin 07http://more.brlcad.org * r23 10Model repository/: bldg391 (update model: )
09:14.29CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03admin 07http://more.brlcad.org * r22 10Model repository/: Boolean operations (update model: )
09:14.38CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03admin 07http://more.brlcad.org * r21 10Model repository/: Axis example (update model: )
09:15.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03admin 07http://more.brlcad.org * r25 10Model repository/: Tank car (update model: BRLCAD processing completed.)
09:15.53CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03admin 07http://more.brlcad.org * r21 10Model repository/: Axis example (update model: BRLCAD processing completed.)
09:16.02CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03admin 07http://more.brlcad.org * r22 10Model repository/: Boolean operations (update model: BRLCAD processing completed.)
09:16.11CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03admin 07http://more.brlcad.org * r23 10Model repository/: bldg391 (update model: BRLCAD processing completed.)
09:16.21CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03admin 07http://more.brlcad.org * r24 10Model repository/: Havoc (update model: BRLCAD processing completed.)
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12:37.38brlcadoh that's cool
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13:13.04``Erik?
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15:04.26brlcadthe model notifications
15:04.59brlcadnoficiations when it's added and when processing is completed .. which looks like was about 5 minues for those tiny models  :)
15:15.09CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35546 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewedge.c: minor tweaks for syncing antialias work
15:26.08CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35547 10/isst/trunk/src/ (gui.c isst.h load_g.c main.c): specify db/regions from command line.
16:41.59brlcadhaha
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16:42.11brlcadhowdy joe!
16:42.16jdolinerhi
16:42.30jdolinerI haven't seen you in a while sean
16:42.35brlcadwas just going through some of your commits yesterday
16:42.40brlcadyeah, was away on travel
16:42.47brlcadbeen a busy couple weeks
16:42.48jdolineryes, thoughts plz
16:42.58brlcadseen the chatter in here and commits, though
16:43.25brlcadwell, how're things going?
16:43.39brlcadi noticed you were working on curve/face crossings for the face-face intersections
16:44.02jdolineryes
16:44.22jdolineryou mean in the FindStartPoints_Internal?
16:46.53jdolinersry that function is actualy GetStartPointsInternal
16:56.59brlcadmm, i'd have to dig back through the commits
16:57.50brlcadCurve_X_Profile() is what I had in mind
16:57.56jdolinerdon't bother
16:57.58brlcadand FaceFaceIntersect()
16:59.07jdolineryeah, Curve_X_Profile was actually an idea that I never wound up using
16:59.11jdolinerI'll remove that soon
16:59.21jdolinerbut facface intersect is the workhorse
17:00.50jdolinerFaceFaceIntersect does all the work of creating the Face_X_Events
17:01.07brlcadcool
17:01.15jdolinerwhich are basically ON_X_Events but for two faces
17:01.22brlcadthat does sound like the most important piece :)
17:01.29jdolineryeah :)
17:01.44jdolinerit uses the numeric method of walking the intersection curve
17:01.54brlcadwere talking yesterday about evaluating a given CSG operation as just the resulting surface intersections, finding those curves, attaching them as trims, and just feeding the result to opengl for visualization
17:02.38brlcadas a 'first step' of sorts, for visualization of arbitrary objects via shaded displays/opengl
17:03.12jdolinerI see,
17:03.37jdolinerultimately would we like to just 'freeze' faces to have only 1 external trim?
17:09.58brlcadwhat do you mean?
17:11.00brlcadmultiple trimming curves are normal
17:11.07brlcador do you mean one trimming loop?
17:11.09jdolinerwell at the end we're going to end up with faces with a whole bunch of trims
17:11.22jdolineryeah i mean loops
17:11.58brlcadyeah, ideally minimal loops but even that shouldn't be a problem to have multiple ones
17:12.22jdolinerk
17:12.49brlcadwill probably want some means to simplify, though -- if a loop is fully contained within another, eliminate it; if it intersects, weave it in, etc
17:13.19jdolineryes, I actually already have it setup to weave intersecting loops in
17:14.21jdolineralso if it has 2 distinct external loops that should be an easy simplification
17:14.22brlcadawesome
17:34.43CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35548 10/isst/trunk/src/ (Makefile.am gui.c isst.h load_g.c main.c): break worker functions out into their own files
17:36.47CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35549 10/isst/trunk/src/test.c: rm dead file
17:38.01CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35550 10/isst/trunk/src/ (local_worker.c net_worker.c): break worker functions out into their own files
17:38.28CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35551 10/isst/trunk/src/poo.g: rm dead file
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17:45.19CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35552 10/isst/trunk/src/net_worker.c: bcopy->memcpy
17:47.55talcite_hey brlcad, can I get your help in changing the configure script from using libtool runpaths to convenience libraries?
17:54.21CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35553 10/isst/trunk/src/ (gui.c isst.h local_worker.c net_worker.c): remove gtk requirement from local_worker
18:07.12brlcadtalcite_: not sure what you mean by that exactly
18:07.27brlcadtalcite_: the convenience libraries aren't installed
18:08.56talcite_brlcad: yeah. I'm just trying to remove all of the libtool runpaths and create partially linked executables so they're compliant with fedora guidelines
18:09.17talcite_brlcad: I'm not sure what you mean by the convenience libraries aren't installed
18:10.12brlcadlibtool "convenience libraries" are, by definition, not installed  :)
18:10.21brlcadhttp://sources.redhat.com/autobook/autobook/autobook_92.html
18:10.31brlcadnote the "noinst"
18:12.52brlcadcan you give a reference to those fedora guidelines?  'partially linked executables' can mean a lot of things or nothing at all
18:14.01brlcadthe default build is shared libraries with dynamic linkage
18:15.09brlcadall i've ever heard fedora guideline-wise was that they (rightfully) prefer non-static compilation/linkage so dependencies can be properly updated and managed
18:17.11talcite_brlcad: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:Guidelines#Beware_of_Rpath
18:17.16brlcadyeah, just found that
18:17.49talcite_sorry for the slow reply, I was just reading over the autotools book page you sent me. I haven't seen that one before
18:17.55brlcadthat's not what I'd consider having much to do with "partially linked executables" ;)
18:18.13talcite_ahh, sorry for the confusing terminology
18:18.19brlcadyeah, I think you're just calling them the wrong thing
18:18.36brlcadI think you just mean our installed libraries
18:18.46brlcadso did you try --disable-rpath?
18:18.56talcite_yup, it didn't do anything
18:19.19brlcaddid you already have a libtool script generated?
18:19.30talcite_also, removing the hardcode_libdir_flag_spec didn't do anything
18:19.50talcite_brlcad: libtool script generated?
18:20.06brlcadno used gnu autotools much I take it? :)
18:20.32talcite_I'm just running everything from sh autogen.sh to make install in the spec file
18:20.40talcite_brlcad: no, I haven't heh
18:20.56brlcadwhen you run our configure, it spits out a script called 'libtool'
18:21.23brlcadthat script is wired into the Makefiles automatically by automake
18:21.53brlcadso during make, the build invokes that libtool script for all linkage
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18:22.20talcite_yeah, I've seen that script being used
18:22.36talcite_I haven't done anything like generate my own though
18:22.48brlcadthat script encapsulates all logic on how to build libraries and link binaries (static and dynamic), and is otherwise mostly a "black box" that you just run .. minus a few knobs you can manually tweak to override what the gnu folks think is best
18:24.03brlcadthe "sh autogen.sh" step turns the configure.ac file into the venerable configure script and all the Makefile.am automake template files into Makefile.in autoconf template files
18:24.20talcite_yup
18:24.44brlcadwhen you run "./configure --whatever..." that turns all the Makefile.in files into Makefile files and generates the libtool script if it's a libtool-enabled project (which we obviously are)
18:25.06brlcadokay, so back to the problem at hand.. post up your libtool script somewhere
18:25.30brlcadtheir guideline are either out of date with the latest libtool, or ya did something wrong
18:26.22talcite_brlcad: http://fpaste.org/NZS3/
18:27.27talcite_brlcad: well going through the build logs shows the -rpath argument being passed to libtool several times
18:29.12brlcadwell the good news is the libtool script doesn't force it
18:31.16talcite_brlcad: would the configure script help?
18:31.26brlcadnote yet
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18:33.49brlcaddid you verify that it's actually generating installed binaries with an rpath set?
18:34.18talcite_brlcad: yeah. Fedora has a check_rpaths tool built into rpmbuild
18:34.51brlcadI know, I'm saying you've checked them explicitly since having ran those regex's on the libtool script, not just noticed the --rpath cmdline option
18:35.00brlcadmore specifically, noticed post-install
18:35.10brlcadlibtool is a multiphase interface, it knows the difference between compilation, preinstall, and postinstall
18:35.51brlcadnot saying that'll do it, but worth checking before going further down the rabbit hole
18:35.52talcite_brlcad: yeah. check-rpaths runs after the rpm is generated, then it goes over the binaries
18:43.31brlcadtalcite_: grep -A1 "checking how to hardcode library paths into programs" brlcad/config.log | grep result
18:44.21talcite_configure:20803: result: immediate
18:44.21talcite_configure:24617: result: immediate
18:46.04brlcadhm
18:51.04brlcadlets try some more aggressive libtool mods..
18:51.14brlcadtry this:
18:51.46brlcadsed -e s/^hardcode_direct.*$/hardcode_direct=yes/g libtool || sed -e s/^hardcode_minus_L.*$/hardcode_minus_L=yes/g || sed -e s/^hardcode_shlibpath_var.*$/hardcode_shlibpath_var=no/g > libtool.new
18:52.04brlcadmv libtool libtool.old && mv libtool.new libtool
18:52.23brlcaddiff libtool libtool.old .. should see at least three lines changed
18:53.54brlcadcan either add that sed and mv to configure.ac after BC_PATCH_LIBTOOL (after making sure it works manually first), or make it a step after ./configure
18:54.36talcite_man that sed was huge
18:56.11CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35554 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (Makefile.am csgbrep.cpp):
18:56.11CIA-38BRL-CAD: Add the skeleton for a csgbrep proc-db - eventually this will be used to do
18:56.11CIA-38BRL-CAD: examples of all of the primitives going from an implicit to a NURBS
18:56.11CIA-38BRL-CAD: representation. At the moment it looks like the ability to do this is not yet
18:56.11CIA-38BRL-CAD: set up, so need to wire in the rt_*_brep ability to some sort of public API.
18:56.25talcite_brlcad: your i/o redirection isn't working
18:56.31brlcadoh, might want to add one more, sed -e 's/(hardcode_into_libs)=.*$/\1=no/'
18:56.58brlcadthat was three seds
18:57.04brlcadso four with the last one
18:57.36talcite_brlcad: I'm not really sure what you did with the || , but the sed stuff just outputs to stdout
18:57.39brlcadand the ||'s should be just |'s .. typo
18:57.43talcite_it isn't getting redirected to libtool.new
18:57.47talcite_oh ok
18:58.07brlcadthey were pre-escaped for m4
18:58.12talcite_oh...
18:59.17brlcadmight just make that last/fourth one be like the rest: s/^hardcode_into_libs.*$/hardcode_into_libs=no/g
19:01.04talcite_brlcad: lots of changes
19:01.18talcite_I can try building now if you'd like
19:01.26brlcadno, paste the diff
19:01.30talcite_k
19:01.31brlcaddiff -u
19:02.07talcite_http://fpaste.org/h4EL/
19:04.05brlcadhm, almost
19:04.44brlcadmake the first one, s/^hardcode_direct=.*$/hardcode_direct=yes/g
19:04.50brlcadrepaste
19:08.19talcite_http://fpaste.org/ENoS/
19:09.10starseekerbrlcad: I'm slightly twisted up - the rt_sph_brep and rt_ell_brep functions aren't accessible directly, and upon reflection should probably be called through rt_functab like all the other primitive functions.  But what about situations like wdb where we have (say) the sphere parameters and want to generate the resulting nurbs without detouring through creating the implicit version of the primitive?  (We could, of course, but that would mean a write AND
19:13.04CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r35555 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/surfaceintersect.cpp: BrepBrepIntersect now cycles through all the pairings of faces and gets their intersections accurately
19:15.14brlcadtalcite_: that looks great, give that a test
19:15.19brlcadwith a clean build
19:15.31talcite_brlcad: sure
19:15.43brlcadit'll still pass --rpath on the command line, but it should think that it doesn't need to do anything
19:16.12brlcadif that doesn't work, we can probably just trick up the --rpath option in the script
19:17.02brlcadstarseeker: they weren't added to the functab just because it's woefully incomplete -- but they are directly accessible
19:17.39brlcadand your message was too long, cut off after AND
19:19.28talcite_brlcad: sounds good. I've started the build process. It'll be 17 minutes or something
19:19.44brlcadyou can just call rt_*_brep() for testing purposes to make sure things are working .. once they're working or as they're working, can add them to functab
19:19.49brlcadtalcite_: k
19:21.21brlcadstarseeker: I also wouldn't want to double-up the API just for a representation type -- the idea would probably be to create an in-memory-only object and then make the functab call on it for a given representation type
19:21.48brlcador they create a nurbs object via opennurbs and write out using mk_brep()
19:23.56talcite_brlcad: looks like we're getting somewhere. It's calling ld now
19:24.04talcite_brlcad: but we have a make error
19:24.29talcite_brlcad: http://fpaste.org/3jXm/
19:25.20brlcadheh, well it certainly seems to have worked :)
19:26.52brlcadcd /home/matthew/rpmbuild/BUILD/brlcad-SVN_010809/src/other/URToolkit/cnv/rletoabA62
19:27.05brlcad/bin/sh ../../../../../libtool --tag=CC --mode=link gcc -I../../../../../src/other/libutahrle/include -O2 -g -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -m64 -g -O3  -L/usr/local/lib64 -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -m64 -g -O3 -o rletoabA62 rletoabA62-rle.o rletoabA62-rletoabA62.o ../../../../../src/other/libutahrle/libutahrle.la
19:27.11brlcad(run that)
19:27.26brlcadpaste the really long gcc line that it spits back
19:27.39talcite_libtool: link: LD_LIBRARY_PATH="../../../../../src/other/libutahrle/.libs:" gcc -I../../../../../src/other/libutahrle/include -O2 -g -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -m64 -g -O3 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -m64 -g -O3 -o .libs/rletoabA62 rletoabA62-rle.o rletoabA62-rletoabA62.o  -L/usr/local/lib64 -L/usr/local/lib -lutahrle -lm -Wl,-rpath -Wl,/usr/lib64/brlcad
19:27.39talcite_/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lutahrle
19:27.39talcite_collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
19:28.20brlcadhuh, odd
19:28.33brlcadls -la ../../../../../src/other/libutahrle/.libs/lib*
19:29.17talcite_http://fpaste.org/61p6/
19:30.11brlcadwell that's stumpworthy
19:30.30brlcadthere's libutahrle.so right there, and LD_LIBRARY_PATH points there
19:30.44brlcadah, but no -L for it, hrm
19:32.26brlcadthink we need to remove one of the sed's
19:32.46brlcadthe hardcode_minus_L one
19:35.27starseekerbrlcad: what do I #include to get them in directly?
19:36.21brlcadstarseeker: they're not in a public header yet, you just have to declare them
19:36.28starseekerok
19:36.36brlcadsee table.c
19:36.43brlcadthere is a declaration macro there
19:36.55starseekerexcellent, thanks
19:37.22starseekershould the rt_functab for tnurbs morph into the brep one?
19:38.02``Erikthat'd wig out import/export
19:38.16brlcadyou don't need to use the macro, but shows the basic form (or just declare them simple) .. it's temporary either way
19:38.25starseekernods
19:39.19starseekeris figuring the rt_functab stuff for brep should be handled Sometime Soon Now...
19:39.42brlcaduntil it's obsoleted, I wouldn't touch the functab entries -- the guts to those functions need to change
19:40.38brlcadsure, you can add them now if you like -- just have to be careful you don't blow a loop somewhere
19:41.04brlcadi've been working on hiding the functab
19:41.12starseekeroh, OK
19:41.17starseekerthat's different
19:41.22brlcadright now it's the only way in the api to get at primitives and their callbacks
19:41.31starseekernods
19:41.53brlcadwithout calling the primitive-specific function directly, of course
19:42.23brlcadi started with mirror, and it just turned out to be a lot to chew on, still at it
19:42.47starseekeram I right that we're basically looking at needing most of the facetize type logic for "nurbize" as well?
19:43.27brlcadidea will be to have a corresponding rt_*() api call for each of the functab entries -- the rt_*() calls into the functab
19:43.53brlcadque?
19:43.53brlcadnot necessarily
19:43.53starseekergiven CSG primitives, we can currently run facetize, big E, etc. to get mesh
19:44.04starseekerdon't we want the same to "get" nurbs?
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19:45.34brlcadah, at the command level .. yeah, probably
19:45.47brlcadprobably an option for some commands, default for others
19:45.55starseekernods
19:46.18brlcadbigE/ev's purpose is visualization, so they could just be updated to be nurbs-only if ogl is available
19:46.42brlcadevaluated visualization
19:46.59starseekermaybe - might want to have a bot fallback if someone's ogl isn't up to NURBS though
19:47.09brlcadnurbize is kinda funky, don't see a direct need like there was for facetize outside of debugging yet
19:47.35starseekerfor that matter, do we really need facetize?
19:47.47brlcadE/ev are rarely used these days on real geometry because of the robustness problems
19:48.27starseekerIn the new GUI I'm assuming it will be hidden behind view modes rather than specific command line things like that?
19:48.47brlcadit being?
19:49.23talcite_brlcad: build was successful, make install failed
19:49.27starseekerthe functionality of switching between wireframe, shaded, etc
19:49.44brlcadyeah, those are just viewing options in the gui
19:50.14talcite_http://fpaste.org/ttBy/
19:50.22brlcadlots of potential viewing options that can be exposed through a panel or buttons or keys or what-have-you
19:52.42starseekerbrlcad: what's the best way to create a bn_tol to toss into rt_*_brep?
19:53.00brlcadcd /home/matthew/rpmbuild/BUILD/brlcad-SVN_010809/src/libbn && /bin/sh ../../libtool --mode=install /usr/bin/install -c libbn.la '/home/matthew/rpmbuild/BUILDROOT/brlcad-SVN_010809-0.fc11.x86_64/usr/lib64/brlcad'
19:53.43talcite_brlcad: http://fpaste.org/1RJZ/
19:54.05brlcadstarseeker: er, create a tol struct and pass a ref to it? :)
19:54.14brlcadinit it with some values..
19:54.55starseekerok, so it won't much care whether it's the same as the database being written to?
19:55.55brlcadtalcite_: hrm, now we're fighting libtool ..
19:56.19brlcadstarseeker: databases don't have a tolerance
19:56.52starseekeroh, OK
19:56.55brlcadthey're working tolerances
19:57.18brlcadyou're telling it what computation tolerances it needs to use .. which is kinda odd for *brep()
19:57.46brlcadprobably just from being started as a copy of tess() or the old tnurb() interface
19:57.53starseekeroh
19:58.01starseekershall I clean it up?
19:58.05brlcadnot harmful, though .. maybe important for some primitives where it will be some sort of approximation
19:58.49brlcadcould see tol being important for dsp, ebm
20:01.14starseekerhmm, point. ok
20:04.25talcite_brlcad: I'm going to switch locations. I'll be back in 20 minutes ok?
20:04.29brlcadaha, talcite .. one more sed
20:04.33talcite_sure
20:05.29brlcads/^hardcode_automatic=.*$/hardcode_automatic=yes/g
20:05.52brlcadthat should prevent that relink rule from kicking off
20:07.45brlcadi'll be somewhat impressed if this actually works :)
20:07.45talcite_alright, rebuild started. I'm switching locations now
20:07.54brlcadkcya
20:08.53*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net)
20:12.53starseekergrowls as he sees the brep.cpp files are all extradisted....
20:14.25starseekerbrlcad: do I link in just sph_brep.o or whatever to avoid depending on librt in a procdb?
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20:17.38starseekergrrrrowlll.  Oh, lovely - sph_brep.cpp doesn't build
20:19.41CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35556 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/dm-rtgl.h src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c): grouping jobs for decent job shuffling
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20:37.06talcitebrlcad, argh. It's still failing the check-rpaths test
20:37.39talcitebrlcad, this tool has been known to give false positives in some cases though. Do you know of another method to check for rpaths?
20:47.22brlcadtalcite: well if you don't set rpaths and haven't added the path to /etc, the binaries shouldn't work
20:47.35brlcadldd /usr/bin/rt
20:51.20talcitebrlcad, http://fpaste.org/Chsp/
20:56.30brlcadthat looks like a lack of rpaths
20:56.56brlcadassuming that is your installation prefix
20:57.14starseekerthanks ``Erik for noticing that rt_sph_brep is mangled and decides linking can wait 'til Monday...
20:57.16brlcadif it's chrooted, you'll have to try it again in the root
20:57.58talcitehmm it's just an installation prefix
20:58.06talcitewell maybe seeing the check-rpaths output would help
20:59.29brlcadsure
20:59.40talcitehttp://fpaste.org/MoSZ/
21:03.24CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35557 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sph/sph_brep.cpp: unpooch it
21:04.58brlcadtalcite: ah, so they do have an rpath, they have a preinstallation rpath so you can run them without installing them
21:05.22brlcadwhich is exactly why it tried to relink them earlier
21:05.29brlcadto get rid of that path
21:05.37brlcadstarseeker: compiles now
21:06.28talcitebrlcad, I see. So what are our options?
21:08.13brlcadtalcite: i'm really liking the bail-out option :)
21:08.25CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35558 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): enable sph_brep.cpp compilation
21:08.28talcitebrlcad, bail out? =S
21:08.54brlcadBuildRequires: chrpath
21:09.36talcitehaha yeah, we could do that. I'm not sure what it actually does though. If you delete the files with rpaths in it, doesn't it break other stuff?
21:09.43brlcadmy feeling is even if we get something hacking.. it's going to be fragile to libtool updates
21:10.14brlcadtalcite: that tool simply strips out the rpath
21:10.21brlcaddoesn't delete files
21:10.24talciteoh I see
21:10.54talcitesure, I wouldn't mind doing that. the libtool stuff is really finicky
21:11.13brlcadso you'd let it build and install, then set up a massive chrpath --delete on all 400+ binaries
21:11.42talcitebrlcad, and after the rpaths are deleted, it would turn to ld to find the libs?
21:12.20brlcadfwiw, the claim that "the Linux dynamic linker is usually smarter than a hardcoded path" is a boatload of crap :)
21:12.36brlcadthey're both flimsy
21:12.56talciteheh. Well I think there was one specific reason that distros avoided rpaths. I was reading about it on the debian mailing lists
21:13.03brlcadto insist on one over the other is a bit silly, but hey their system their rules
21:13.18talciteit was massively breaking some upgrades I think
21:13.34brlcadthat usually indicates some other stupidity on someone's part
21:13.51brlcaddebian and fedora are similarly managed *ahem*
21:13.55talciteanyways, debian also bans rpaths, so if the chrpaths method works, we can probably push to package this into debian as well =D
21:13.57talciteheh
21:15.27brlcadports, fink, portage, and others all get along just fine not getting involved in whether they're set or not
21:16.42brlcadI suspect it just makes package management easier for the package management *system* developers, pushing the work onto the porters to customize most packages
21:18.14talciteoh... =/
21:18.21brlcadthe debian devs also insist of screwing with libtool directly to impose one of their requirements, which actually outright breaks packages that include public libraries with binaries
21:18.49brlcadthat's the BC_PATCH_LIBTOOL I mentioned earlier .. reverts damage they make to the libtool script that causes failures
21:21.52talciteoh...yeah I think fedora also has patches applied to libtool
21:31.26CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35559 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: thread monkeying. pass args to gtk_init()
21:31.55CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35560 10/isst/trunk/src/ (isst.h load_g.c): disable "fast" loading for now.
21:38.39talcitealright, hopefully that build will work out. I need to head out for a bit. I will be back later
21:49.03CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35561 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: get shotline working again.
22:49.43``Erikhm
22:50.25``Erikdamn linux weenies, screwing up build systems and thinking it's a good thing
22:50.28``Erik:D
22:59.25CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35562 10/isst/trunk/src/ (local_worker.c net_worker.c): updates for osX.5
23:04.19brlcadtalcite_: thanks again for your efforts
23:07.30``Erikthinks he'll put in a loader dialog then try to cook a winderz binary of isst O.o
23:07.37``Erikand chuck it over the fence
23:08.52``Erik(btw, facetize_all_regions or facetall.sh ... needs to be unsucked.)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090815

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090815

00:00.48starseekerbrlcad: ah, thanks :-)
00:01.29starseekeractually got it to compile - it was C++ name mangling that (apparently) made the BU_EXTERN not work
00:04.21starseeker``Erik: right?
00:05.11``Erikoh, it compiled?
00:05.21``Eriknm made it look like a c++ name mangle issue to me
00:05.38``Erikthe symbol had all sorts of signature goop on it in the library
00:08.23``Erik(the BU_EXTERN() macro shouldn't do anything weird wrt c++... *shrug*)
00:09.22``Erikhm, might just be apple name mangling... not used to looking at the guts of dylib
00:15.01``Erikhm, anything g++ touches gets mangled like mad, gcc itself just puts a _ at the beginning :/
00:49.14brlcadBU_EXTERN is only valid inside an extern "C" block
00:49.24brlcadin a c++ file
00:52.48``Erikahhhh, epiphany, I grok now
00:53.19``Erikit tells c++ to not mangle, extern itself does not
00:53.48``Erik(ya'd think a C style definition would convince c++ to play by C's rules... apparently not.)
00:55.34``Erikbrlcad: didja email a ticket in for the hw check of crit?
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06:48.58talcite_will our scripts in /usr/bin/brlcad always be suffixed with a .sh extension?
06:49.15talcite_I need a way of identifying which are ELF executables and which aren't
06:52.10jdolinerum According to hacking POSIX Bourne Style Scripts use the .sh extension
06:52.23jdolinerso it is indeed a rule
06:52.38jdolinerline 399
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09:12.32talcite_holy crap. It finally built with all the rpaths removed =D
09:12.54talcite_This is going to be awesome. I'm throwing it into my VM to test as soon as the whole RPM finishes building =D
11:45.27brlcadalmost always, there are three notable exceptions: benchmark, archer, and brlman
11:46.27brlcadthey live as .sh in the sources but are installed without suffix for end-users
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12:51.10CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35563 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/ (Makefile.am rtwizard rtwizard.tcl): store rtwizard as rtwizard.tcl and merely install it as 'rtwizard' so that the file format is evident within the source hierarchy.
13:28.28``Erikwhat're the tcl commands for tree walking?
13:29.34``Erikfacetall.sh and foreach reg $mybots { mv $reg $reg.csg; r $reg u $reg.bot } make me sad
13:30.52``Erik(using mged myfile.g tops 2>&1 | xargs -n 1 | grep '\.bot$' | xargs and pasting the result into set mybots {xxx})
13:32.24``Erikoptimally, I'd like to dup a specified tree, with a postfix modifier and a per region function
13:34.47``Erik(dup-tree :postfix ".f" :region-callback (lambda (r) (facetize (string-append (name region) ".f") r) r)))
13:35.10``Erikor, y'know... something
13:44.07CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35564 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/rtwizard.tcl: cleanup
13:45.23CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35565 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): the other suffix outlier, store brlman.in as brlman.sh.in so that the file format is evident within the source hierarchy as brlman.sh
13:46.40tofutree walking in tcl is a manual process
13:47.00``Erik'k, how? (lame)
13:47.01tofuthere are a couple helper procs
13:47.25``Erik(and why was I unable to find this info on the web?)
13:47.49tofuget_regions shows a recursive traversal that looks for regions
13:47.56tofusrc/tclscripts/mged/get_regions.tcl
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13:48.52``Erikalso; btclsh help lists all the neato mged functions but cannot execute them
13:50.19brlcadyeah, that'd be because 'help' is a tcl proc, src/tclscripts/help.tcl
13:50.33brlcadit shouldn't be - needs to be a libged func
13:50.57brlcadthat's a chunk of refactoring I've had in mind for a while, but haven't gotten to it
13:50.57``Erik<-- never digs into tcl shtuff, just pointing out surprises
13:51.28``Erikwas one of those "have a task, looks likeit should be easy in tcl, lets go learn tcl" deals
13:52.08brlcadnah, it was part of an earlier refactoring that pushed more towards tcl
13:52.37brlcadsince half the commands are in tcl, half the help was there, the other half was in a c callback table
13:52.53brlcadthe callback table was merged into the tcl table so that all help was in one plce
13:53.23brlcadnow with libged, though, the commands really should be self-contained and define their own help/docs
13:53.37brlcadeven if it means a separate help table for the tcl procs still
13:54.30``Erikheh
13:54.35``Erikif only C had docstrings
13:57.00``Erikalso; "foreach reg [get_regions tank] { echo $reg }" does't print anything, but other ops do shtuff... is echo not quite right? or am I doing something stupid (is this related to the "only the last command prints" bug?)
13:57.13brlcadthinking to make it more like table.c style with sets of callbacks/info per command
13:57.30brlcadputs
13:58.12``Erikermmmm, ok, that displays... well.... tank...
13:58.54``Erikheh...
13:58.55``Erikmged> foreach reg [get_regions tank] { puts "$reg" }
13:58.55``Eriktank
13:59.13``Erikmged> get_regions tank
13:59.13``Erikr1 r2 r3 r4 r5 r6 r7 r8 r9 r10 r21 r22 r204 r205 r15 r16 r17 r18 r19 r211 r215 r216 r217 r218 r219 r220 r221 r222 r223 r224 r225 r226 r227 r228 r229 r230 r231 r232 r233 r234 r235 r236 r237 r238 r239 r240 r241 r242 r243 r244 r210 r212 r32 r33 r34 r35 r36 r37 r38 r39 r40 r41 r42 r43 r44 r45 r245 r246 r247 r248 r249 r250 r251 r252 r253 r254 r23 r24 r25 r26
13:59.32``Erikprobably need something like [list [get_regions tank]]
13:59.52``Erikit's too damn early and saturday, I'm calling my brain on vacation :)
14:03.17``Erik'k, I'm gonna pull the doof card, show me the tcl fu to walk a given tree and facetize all the regions, I'm looking for each region to contain exactly one BoT (thus "isst-optimized") :) I think I'm close, but missing a couple details
14:03.35``Erikand one of us can wiki an explaination I guess
14:05.15``Erik(why does puts work when echo does not?)
14:13.59``Erikheh proc fib {a} { if { $a < 2} {return 1} {return [expr [fib [expr $a-1]] + [fib [expr $a - 2]]]}}
14:14.19``Eriklanguage bootcamp :(
14:17.03``Erikfavors (defun fib (a) (if (< a 2) 1 (+ (fib (- a 1)) (fib (- a 2))))) O:-)
14:25.10brlcader
14:25.24brlcadwhat you wrote was write
14:25.45brlcadyou're probably forgetting you're in mged with globbing left on :)
14:25.49brlcadset glob_compat_mode 0
14:26.41brlcader, and s/write/right/
14:27.06``Erikahhh
14:28.02``Erik\[ works
14:28.24brlcadyeah, you can escape all the globbing chars and it'll still work
14:28.33brlcador just turn off globbing
14:30.10brlcaduseful if you want globbing AND tcl, but it will tend to be very sensitive to writespace as the globber is pretty simple
14:30.19brlcadwhitespace even
14:30.30brlcadforeach reg \[ get_regions *.g \] {puts $reg}
14:31.33``Erikforeach reg \[get_regions tank] {puts $reg}  seems to work
14:32.02``Erik(no forth style space buffering, no escaping the closing bracket, ...)
14:32.39``ErikI d'no, I should wait for tuesday :) and do some less worky shit for now
14:34.48brlcadi mean you'll need the spaces if you also want globbing
14:34.56brlcadthe globber won't like *.g\]
14:35.08``Erikah
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21:21.20talciteI just did an svn up. Is the head stable right now?
21:31.37Raliththeoretically.
21:31.49Ralithby definition, head is technically not stable
21:31.55Ralithbut there's no particular reason it should be broken
21:32.50talciteRalith, alright, sounds good
21:33.11Ralithdon't forget to rerun autogen.sh
21:33.28talciteyup. Its in the %prep of the spec file
21:57.37talcitehey guys. Why is there a .jnilib file in my build?
21:57.47talciteI'm building on fedora. Those libs shouldn't exist should they?
22:18.39talciteoh, and when is the new release coming out? I'm thinking of submitting that one for review by the repo maintainers
22:18.57talciteit's been any day now for the past couple weeks =D
22:29.21RalithWhen It's Done
22:50.34talciteoh... hey why isn't there a LICENSE file included? Doesn't LGPL require one?
22:57.47``Erikwe have COPYING or something
22:59.07``Erik.jnilib might be generated by src/librtserver which is a java interaface via RNI or something
22:59.18``Eriknew release is "any day now"
23:00.25talciteheh. Alright. I'll submit the svn head for review and update to the new release when it comes
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23:01.28``ErikI'm letting the fbsd update kinda float
23:01.33``Erikpending update
23:01.45talciteahh. so you're the fbsd maintainer? Cool
23:01.59``ErikI should let them know that the current pr is bunk
23:02.12``Erikhad to fix a bunch of crap for update... tkhtml3 is a bitch
23:02.38talciteI think we could probably get SUSE and debian maintainers soon. I don't think the packaging guidelines are that different between the major distros
23:02.50``Erikyeh, doing packaging duty gives me a gardener hat to help keep things sane..
23:03.19``Erikbut then ya get fools who think that it needs to be installed /usr/ and it goes back to hell... damn linux weenies :)
23:03.49``Erikdebian was cool with us having our own dir iirc
23:04.34talcitewe have debian inclusion?
23:04.56``Erikmisc/debian/
23:05.09``Erikwe have had the ability...
23:05.15talciteoh ok
23:05.51``ErikI lost my debian machine like 4 years ago so I quit mucking with them folk
23:06.11``Erik(note misc/brlcad.spec...)
23:06.56talciteI find it hard to believe that someone else hasn't picked up package maintainership in that while
23:07.06talciteplus, don't they have remote build systems?
23:07.37``Erikthey probably do... but I can't generate a .deb file myself
23:08.00talciteoh yeah
23:08.01talciteheh
23:08.10``Erikand my .rpm files would be enterprise specific *shrug* fbsd is one of the few "common" archs I can do :)
23:08.23talciteenterprise specific?
23:08.27talcitedoesn't ubuntu pull from debian?
23:08.33``Erikyeah, I have access to RHEL, not fedora
23:08.40talciteoh ok
23:08.53``Erikubuntu is a descendant of debian, yes...
23:09.25``Erikbut the only linux boxen I have access to are redhat enterprise
23:09.36``Erikeven brlcad.org is fbsd these days :)
23:09.38talcitewhat's the inclusion path for RHEL repos anyways?
23:10.00``Erikdoesn't know and doesn't care...
23:11.08talcitewell yeah I guess it's probably a pretty closed process
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23:16.39talcitedo we have a standard icon for brlcad?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090816

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090816

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10:45.38talcite_I'm going to take a nap, so just leaving a question. Do we have any official icon or symbol? I need to include an icon for the menu item. I'm also terrible at art, so I can't really make anything myself.
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15:56.14CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35566 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/csgbrep.cpp: Trying to figure out how to call rt_sph_brep from a procdb...
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17:44.19CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1600 10/wiki/More_Changelog: /* August 3-Today */
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090817

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090817

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06:54.14CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35567 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): some more CMake install to make my live easier
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12:19.19CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35568 10/rt^3/trunk/src/coreInterface/Particle.cpp: added missing exception declaration
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18:05.02starseekerhmm cp: ../../../brlcad/src/brlman/brlman.sh: No such file or directory
18:06.07starseekerlooks like out of dir build isn't working...
18:06.10starseekeroh, I see
18:08.24CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35569 10/brlcad/trunk/src/brlman/Makefile.am: Now that it's brlman.sh.in rather than brlman.sh, look to copy brlman.sh to brlman from the build directory rather than the src directory (fixes out of dir build)
18:10.31brlcadah, the bench script it was based off of has the script in srcdir .. that one is configure-generated
18:12.26starseekerbrlcad: do I need to BU_EXTERN in sph_brep.cpp or can it be done in csgbrep.cpp?
18:34.25brlcaddefinitely not in sph_brep.cpp
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18:34.33brlcadit just needs to be declared somewhere before it's used
18:34.36brlcadhowdy mafm
18:34.45brlcadit can be done in your proc
18:35.14mafmhello
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18:59.59starseekerbrlcad: I've  BU_EXTERNed in csgbrep.cpp but ld still gives back /usr/bin/ld: Undefined symbols:
19:00.02starseeker_rt_sph_brep
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19:01.56starseekernm reports: nm ../../src/librt/.libs/librt.dylib |grep rt_sph_brep
19:01.56starseeker0035efe6 s __GLOBAL__I__Z11rt_sph_brepPP7ON_BrepPK14rt_db_internalPK6bn_tol
19:02.09starseeker002a9d60 T __Z11rt_sph_brepPP7ON_BrepPK14rt_db_internalPK6bn_tol
19:04.21CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35570 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (Makefile.am csgbrep.cpp): Still tweaking csgbrep.cpp...
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19:21.41brlcadstarseeker: don't use the macro, just declare the function normally
19:23.37CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35571 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (librt/primitives/sph/sph_brep.cpp proc-db/csgbrep.cpp): Got a nurbs sphere using csgbrep
19:23.54starseekerbrlcad: uh, whoops - is that OK?
19:24.14starseekerthat worked...
19:26.47brlcadyeah, it'll work .. but it's kinda ancillary
19:27.32brlcadthose macros mean something specific about exporting symbols to libraries, and you're not writing library code
19:27.42brlcadso it should just be a declaration
19:27.54brlcadthe extern "C" bit is what made it work
19:28.45starseekerah
19:32.10starseekerYeah, I figured it was the extern "C" but I didn't know if that broke some sort of librt convention...
19:32.47CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35572 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/csgbrep.cpp: Just use a simple extern in csgbrep
19:36.35brlcadthat does, don't think it's the cleanest approach
19:36.49brlcadprobably just have to pre-declare the function linkage properly
19:37.09brlcadwhich won't matter later
19:37.37starseekerOK.  Well, it gets me up and working for the moment, and we can decide on the "best" approach later
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19:50.48CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35573 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Start setting up for rt_ell_brep
20:17.49CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35574 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/csgbrep.cpp:
20:17.49CIA-38BRL-CAD: Try the rt_ell_brep code - some problems with the geometry resulting from it.
20:17.49CIA-38BRL-CAD: Even more troubleing is that sph and ell don't want to run at the same time -
20:17.49CIA-38BRL-CAD: problem seems to be having ON_Brep* obj = new ... used more than once.
20:35.31CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r35575 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/surfaceintersect.cpp: Added Make Loops to match the new curves head to tail to create the new trim loops for the Faces
21:02.28CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35576 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): changed hash lookup function to take *prev instead of unnecessary **prev
21:07.38``ErikI thought nick was done O.o
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21:30.21starseekergrrrr
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21:33.05starseekerdoesn't get it... why is this causing memory issues...
21:37.34``Erikwhat is the issue?
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23:40.09starseeker``Erik: still here?
23:42.56starseekerhaving two statements of the form ON_Brep* brep = new ON_Brep(); is causing seg faults
23:49.40starseekerand something about the rt_db_internal pointer is messed up by using it twice...
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090818

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090818

00:01.24CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35577 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/csgbrep.cpp: Er, oops - how about providing some memory for the temporary rt_db_internal. Can now generate both sphere and ellipsoid, modulo problems with ellipsoid due to geometry errors.
00:10.10CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35578 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Enable torus brep output in csgbrep
00:17.54starseekerbreaths a sigh of relief - now we can start getting down to geometry
00:26.37starseekeropts to go home and start on geometry tomorrow...
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06:21.39``Erikhuh?
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08:15.47Ralithanyone got a windows box set up for dev handy?
08:15.52RalithI've got experimental windows code
08:16.32Ralithif this works, all that leaves is OSX support and the major windowing systems are covered.
08:16.42CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35579 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (OgreGLWidget.cxx OgreGLWidget.h): Untested windows support for OgreGLWidget.
08:37.05CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35580 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GedCommand.cxx GedCommand.h): Added a convenience function to convert a QStringList into a char** for passing to libged.
09:04.19CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35581 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GedCommand.cxx GedCommand.h): Added convenience function for calling libged functions, assuming they all share type signature.
09:05.25Ralithtalk about simplification.
09:05.33Ralithmuch DRYer, too.
09:11.03CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35582 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GedCommand.cxx GedCommand.h): Added convenience function to obtain last libged string command result.
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09:12.13CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35583 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GedCommand.cxx GedCommand.h): Modified libged call convenience function to return libged call return value.
09:16.16CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35584 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GedCommands.h: Adapted GedCommands.h to use new utility functions, drastically simplifying the file and reducing repeated code. Usage messages are now offloaded to libged.
09:25.25CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35585 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GedCommand.cxx GedCommand.h GedCommands.h):
09:25.25CIA-31BRL-CAD: Moved convenience functionality into GedCommand proper, replacing the need for
09:25.25CIA-31BRL-CAD: duplicate execute reimplementations in each new GedCommand with a simple
09:25.25CIA-31BRL-CAD: requirement for the GedFunc to be wrapped to be specified in the constructor.
09:27.10CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35586 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Command.cxx: Squashed unsigned vs. signed comparison warning.
09:28.38CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35587 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Command.h Commands.h GedCommand.cxx GedCommand.h): Constified Command::execute's argument.
09:29.46CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35588 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Command.cxx Command.h): Referenceified the return value of Command::getArgumentNames for consistency.
09:33.42Ralithyay, ged_reopen isn't bugging anymore
09:33.52Ralithand I've finally managed to confirm interaction with a database file :D
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09:54.04CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35589 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Console.cxx Console.h OgreGLWidget.cxx): First attempt to make Console output vertically scrollable; simplifies code but results in invisible output.
09:58.06CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35590 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: Console output restored and now scrollable. Some oddities remain.
10:01.20CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35591 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: Set console output text alignment to bottom-left.
10:04.57CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35592 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: Restored proper output line formatting to console.
10:16.38CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35593 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: First attempt to force scrollable console output to remain at the bottom; mostly unsuccessful.
10:36.48CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35594 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Console.cxx: Another attempt to force scrolling to remain at maximum, now resulting in correct scrolling alignment for the *last* command output.
10:38.41d-lo_Nice stuff Ralith ;)
10:38.48Raliththanks
10:39.08Ralithgot a pair of challenging (minorish) issues right now :/
10:39.39d-lo_which are?
10:39.41Ralithin addition to the above scrolling issues, for some reason the output scrollbar is using the windows theme.
10:39.49Ralithwhich is downright strange.
10:40.49d-lo_Hrm, that is strange.
10:41.03d-lo_But, I agree, Minorish :)
10:41.37Raliththe scrolling thing seems to be expected behavior, but I'm still not sure how to go at it: adding text to the output QLabel does not immediately result in the QScrollArea adjusting itself, so the slider adjustment just moves it to the position for whatever the last known QLabel size was.
10:42.04Ralithmost of the obvious angles cannot be guaranteed to work reliably.
10:42.20Ralithbecause Qt's slots are not guaranteed to be called in any particular order
10:44.54Ralithnone of the 'update right now dammit' functions seem to be sufficient.
10:47.43d-lo_Sorry, been bringing up the .cxx/.h
10:47.56Ralithheh
10:47.57Ralithno worries
10:48.22Ralithmostly discussing it in the hopes of jostling an idea in my own head; it probably requires more background than is worth the effort to obtain from scratch.
10:50.10d-lo_Are QLabel objects designed to be multiline?
10:51.00Ralithyes, as far as I can tell.
10:51.08Raliththat bit certainly works fine.
10:51.17Ralithit resizes itself to acommodate.
10:51.22Ralithor, well
10:51.32Ralithwidget size management in Qt is fairly involved
10:51.46Ralith(for good reason)
10:52.08Ralithbut with the current code, the widget be resized itself to however large it need be on both axes to contain the text fed to it
10:52.21d-lo_So, are you just trying to get the slider to adjust to a specific position based on an addition of text to the label?
10:53.59Ralithwell
10:54.13Ralithright now, I'm simply telling the slider to go to its maximum position immediately after text is added.
10:54.21Ralithwhich is the desired behavior.
10:54.28Ralithhm, I wonder...
10:54.45Ralithno, nvm.
10:55.38d-lo_Well I guess I don't understand the scrolling problem then, heh :)
10:56.29Raliththe problem is that the QScrollArea doesn't seem to adjust itself for the QLabel resize until it gets normally updated
10:56.37Ralithwhich occurs *after* pushOutput returns
10:57.35Ralithwhich means that any adjustment of the QScrollArea's scroll positioning is applied to a QScrollArea having dimensions fitting the pre-append output label.
10:57.40d-lo_ah.  i c.
10:58.53Ralithat this point I'm hoping there's some clever auto-alignment trick that will fix everything.
11:01.53d-lowhat about extending the QLabel class to your own custom class, make a custom 'TextUpdated' signal that fires whenever you call ->setText() ?
11:02.15d-lojust wire that textUpdated signal into the Scrollbar resize logic.
11:04.22CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35595 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Console.cxx Console.h): Const-ref-ified Console::pushOutput's argument.
11:04.45Ralithd-lo: such a signal already exists.  Lemme give that a try.
11:05.56d-loreally?  I am looking at the API::QLabel docs and see no signal thats usable :/
11:06.13Ralithoh, wait, I was thinking of QLineEdit
11:06.39Ralithhowever...
11:07.56d-loHrm, thats just dumb actually.  having a TextUpdated signal seems only logical for a QLabel... why isn't it in there?
11:08.17Ralithprobably because a QLabel's text can only be changed by the program anyway
11:08.24Ralithalso
11:08.30RalithI *think* you can connect a slot to another slot
11:08.32Ralithbut I'm not sure
11:08.41Ralithhowever, quoth the docs:
11:08.44d-loO.o
11:08.51RalithWhen a signal is emitted, the slots connected to it are usually executed immediately
11:09.12Ralithmeaning that this would have the same ultimate effect as what I'm doing already
11:10.19d-loHrm, again, maybe I am missing the issue.  I thought that the QLabel was resizing properly, but the associated QScrollArea was not?
11:10.44Raliththat is correct.
11:10.46Raliththe problem is timing
11:10.51Ralithor well
11:10.54Raliththat is approx. correct
11:11.03Raliththe QScrollArea *is* resizing properly, but *after* pushOutput returns.
11:11.16RalithI believe this is normal.
11:11.28d-loSo, if you Subclass QLabel and override .setText() so that it calls QLabel::setText() first, then emits the custom textUpdated() signal, then returns.
11:12.07d-loOkay, well, I think I see what you are saying now.
11:12.55Raliththen that would have the same effect as what I'm doing already
11:13.18d-lohave you thought about making a dedicated GUI update thread/system?  Seems like this is a thread sequencing issue.
11:14.29Ralithahah!
11:14.30Ralithsolution!
11:14.44Ralithpublic slot QAbstractSlider::rangeChanged
11:15.35d-loGood deal.. but what's the signal?
11:15.40Ralither
11:15.42Raliththat was a signal
11:15.48d-lokk
11:15.49Ralithit's 4AM >_>
11:15.56d-loNO EXCUSES!
11:16.00d-lo;)
11:17.05Ralithwires it up
11:18.03d-loI don't see how that willhelp :/  Unless the rangeChanged fires before the QSliderArea resizes itself...
11:19.13Ralithall I have to do is connect outputArea->verticalScrollBar()'s rangeChanged to a local slot that sets the scrollbar position to max
11:20.47d-loOh, all you were trying to do was to get the scrollbar to go full the fully max position?  I thought 'resize' ment the QScrollBar was physically changing size, lol
11:21.10Ralithnah, it's the QScrollArea which resizes
11:21.24Ralithits virtual area, anyway
11:21.38d-los/QScrollBar/QScrollArea/g
11:22.03Ralithyeah
11:22.15Ralithwhen it resizes, the viewport position remains constant
11:22.40Ralithso the additional QLabel content is off to the bottom and the scrollbar is adjusted to match the larger range
11:22.59d-loWell QAbstractSlider has public setValue(int) slot that you could use... or are ya?
11:23.56Ralither
11:23.57Ralithit does?
11:23.58Ralithwhere?
11:24.13Ralithoh wait
11:24.16RalithQAbstractSlider
11:24.18Ralithnot ScrollArea
11:24.35Ralithyeah, that's basically equivalent to what I'm already doing
11:24.49Ralithit doesn't map cleanly onto rangeChanged's data so I have to use a custom one anyway
11:25.02d-loright on.  just casually browsing the Qt Api.  saw it, figured i'd mention it :)
11:25.58Ralithnods
11:26.16Ralithnow I just have to work out exactly what syntax to use to make the connection work :|
11:26.29Ralithit tends to be picky and fail silently.
11:28.31Ralithgot it!
11:28.34Ralith:D
11:28.36Ralithworks a dream.
11:28.42d-loapplauds.
11:31.17CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35596 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Console.cxx Console.h): Fully functional vertical console output scrolling.
11:36.02d-lonow how about wrapping up that QLabel + QScrollArea functionality into a single, new QWidget? ;)
11:36.23Ralithgood idea.
11:37.01RalithI might wait until I can fix/verify linewrapping
11:38.36Ralithor until there is actually a need for such functionality elsewhere >_>
11:38.53Ralith(this is how HistoryLineEdit came about)
11:39.08d-lokewl
13:23.15``ErikO.o
13:49.04starseekeris getting a funny behavior when he goes to MGED camera, then does a Shift+left mouse click and hold to drag the object
13:49.14starseekerit's spinning around as I drag it
13:50.19starseekerRalith: very cool work!
13:50.41starseekerIs the command dialog supposed to disappear when you click on the button again and/or run a command?
13:51.54starseekerscreenshot, for those interested:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/g3d_latest.png
14:01.14``Erikthat is most definitely not an m35 deuce and a half on the screen.
14:02.10starseekertrue
14:02.24starseekerthat's just a demonstration of the ability to run SOME command that queries the database
14:02.57``Erikit's not the 24th yet :)
14:03.52``Eriklibgcv is probbably the best avenue to get triangles from .g files.... isst/src/load_g.c is one way to do it
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15:21.23starseekercan anybody else play this video?  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/g3d.avi
15:21.59starseekerlord that was a job, but screenshots just don't do for this
15:24.47archivistplays on ubuntu, some artifacts though
15:26.14starseekerwhat sort?
15:29.43starseeker(for the record, had to install https://devel.neopsis.com/projects/yukon/wiki/WikiStart, record, run /tmp/yukon.seom through seom-filter to a file (file.y4m), then mencoder file.y4m -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vpvpass=1 -o g3d.avi
15:29.58starseeker(on gentoo linux)
15:30.21starseekerer that's vpass not vpvpass
15:31.11CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35597 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/humanwizard/HumanWizard.tcl: Fixed humanwizard so it doesn't totally break archer.
16:15.33brlcadhehe, cool starseeker
16:15.40brlcadplays fine in MPlayer
16:15.57brlcadquicktime doesn't have the codec
16:23.09CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35598 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/humanwizard.tcl: Changed case so that way human wizard works more.
16:26.35CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35599 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am): if we're going to install non-versioned wish/tclsh, we need to uninstall them
16:46.38CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35600 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/humanwizard/HumanWizard.tcl:
16:46.38CIA-31BRL-CAD: Fixed lots of variable problems. Now actually loads dialog box!!
16:46.38CIA-31BRL-CAD: Unfortunatly, does not create human... yet...
18:07.23*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@208.95.141.189)
18:17.30CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35601 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/draw.c: Update ged_draw to process -A as in mged's edit_com.
18:21.29CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35602 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/human.c: Added human.c to libged to be used for archer plugin.
18:27.50CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35603 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/brepintersect.cpp: quell warnings. lots of missing return types and unimplemented sections.
18:34.17CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35604 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/Makefile.am: Added human to makefile
18:37.53CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35605 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/brepintersect.cpp: some minor style consistency cleanup and formatting, doxygenify and repair.
19:05.05*** join/#brlcad talcite__ (n=matthew@69-196-178-139.dsl.teksavvy.com)
19:22.16CIA-31BRL-CAD: 0385.175.214.221 07http://brlcad.org * r1601 10/wiki/Support:
19:30.38CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35606 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): using hash table to bin colors for faster prep and drawing time
19:59.28CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35607 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Use expand instead of ls when clearing the target ledger (.i.e ls adds garnish to regions/combinations).
19:59.41CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35608 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/surfaceintersect.cpp: more cleanup: inject some whitespace for readability, ws and style cleanup.
20:12.46CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35609 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: draw function was skipping first table entry
20:15.19starseekerindianlarry: Getting some raytrace artifacts with the boolean subtraction of a torus from a sphere in nurbs:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/sph-tor.g
20:19.32CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35610 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (Makefile.am human.c):
20:19.32CIA-31BRL-CAD: Modified human.c to build humans using libged
20:19.32CIA-31BRL-CAD: Modified Makefile to allow this to happen
20:21.27CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35611 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/metaball.c: cast to quell some constness warnings
20:21.36CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35612 10/brlcad/trunk/include/rtgeom.h: ws reduction
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20:23.22brlcadhowdy talcite__
20:23.33brlcadany news on the rpm?
20:25.40CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35613 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/overlay.c: quell constness warning
20:26.26CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35614 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/humanwizard/HumanWizard.tcl: Modified Humanwizard to work better (but still broken) in archer
20:35.40CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35615 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
20:35.40CIA-31BRL-CAD: since most of the build tree is warning clean now, plan to utilize more strict
20:35.40CIA-31BRL-CAD: compilation options in those subdirs if the compiler supports it. this should
20:35.40CIA-31BRL-CAD: help prevent new bad habits and lazinesses from getting injected.
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21:06.39CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35616 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Moved human.c to shapes directory, and modified respective makefiles to take this change.
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21:50.10Ralithstarseeker: you got it working? :D
21:50.52Ralithgood call on the command dialog closing on execute, didn't think of that but it's the obvious thing to do
21:53.07CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35617 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CommandDialog.cxx MainWindow.cxx): Cleaned up empty argument lists in calls to QObject::connect and made the command dialog auto-hide when a command is ran.
21:56.07brlcadRalith: maybe you can fix that translate bug
21:56.16Ralithtr-- oh yeah
21:56.16brlcadthen we can remake the video
21:56.28brlcadand post it up on the site
21:56.33Raliththe mged camera mode shift-click-drag thing?
21:56.54brlcadyep
21:56.58Ralithyeah
21:57.17RalithI may just scrap mafm's camera management thing :/
21:57.25Ralithoh, btw
21:57.35Ralithwhat's libged's relationship to the display supposed to be?
21:57.41RalithI notice it implements commands like 'zap'
22:03.03brlcadit's supposed to provide display lists (or similar visualization representations) that the application manages
22:03.33brlcadI wouldn't think you should scrap his cameras .. probably some pretty minor bug, uninitialized matrix or something
22:04.30Ralithit's the second such minor bug with no obvious cause
22:04.44brlcadas for libged, for example, if you "draw foo", it should load up 'foo' from disk and obtain a visual representation (e.g. the wireframe or polygons), and present that back to the caller
22:05.12brlcadright now it effectively does that by loading up display lists for the primitives and stashes them in the ged struct
22:05.39brlcadthe calling application can then iterate over those display lists and pump them to ogre
22:06.24mafmmeh, nothing of my code is left :P
22:06.57brlcadmafm: hehe, not true
22:06.59Ralithmafm: not at all!
22:07.06Ralithyour command stuff is working quite nicely.
22:07.21Ralithlogger, too
22:07.27brlcadeven aa bunch of the main appliction framework is the same
22:07.39brlcadya'll should keep at it :)
22:07.43mafmbut camera code was so nice... :'(
22:08.11brlcadyeah, I don't think the camera code should be removed, the bugs don't seem that major
22:08.19brlcadand this one was specific to translations
22:08.22brlcadmafm: did you see the video?
22:08.28mafmnope
22:08.53brlcadhttp://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/g3d.avi
22:09.10Ralithwill smack it a bit and see if he can't knock the issue loose
22:09.22Ralithit's probably using the same input for both translation *and* rotation or something
22:11.16mafmnice video :)
22:11.36mafmI was only whining... no problem in removing any of my code, of course
22:13.13Ralithhehe
22:13.36Ralithno need to do so gratuitously, either
22:29.58Ralithmafm: can you explain the purpose of the third parameter to void CameraMode::pan(float x, float y, SimpleVector3 originalCenter)
22:31.10mafmI think that there's some/several modes that zoom or move the object depending on the distance of the mouse from the center of the screen, or the originalCenter
22:32.02mafmso, when mouse moves from x=500 to x=550, if the origcenter.x=300, it calculates the base position subtracting x-origcenter.x
22:32.08mafminstead of from last mouse position
22:32.57mafmbase position->current position
22:33.33Ralithbut you already handle the absolute->relative conversion
22:33.43Ralithooh I know the problem
22:34.29mafmmmm
22:35.09mafmI think that I had introduced it later in the design due to some functionality of MGED requiring it
22:36.23mafmbut maybe it can be avoided with a redesign, or at least simplified
22:36.47Ralithit can
22:46.27Ralithokay, bug squashed
22:47.28Ralithbrlcad: where can I find docs on the libged display list stuff?
22:57.19Ralithblarg
22:57.21Ralithsmacks svn
22:58.46CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35618 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraModeMGED.cxx CameraModeMGED.h): Simplified and fixed MGED camera panning.
22:58.48Raliththere we go
22:58.52Ralithbrlcad: fixd!
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23:20.12CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r35619 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (4 files): Replaced SimpleVector3 use with vmath.h vector types.
23:35.44``Erikhm
23:48.39CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r35620 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/bigE.c: Corrected display list to show the name of what is "E"'d
23:48.56Ralithanyone know where I can find docs on libged's display lists?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090819

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090819

00:48.30brlcadno docs other than source code, best bet is to look at places in libged (such as bigE.c right above there in that last commit) and mged
00:50.08brlcadcool fix, have to give that a test!
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02:15.04starseekerRalith: yep, that seems to have the translation bug - one oddity is it doesn't seem to completely "follow" the mouse at the same speed it's being dragged - is it scaling down the mouse movement on the whole desktop to a percentage of the g3d window?
02:19.56starseekerRalith: hmm:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/g3d_rotate_bug.avi
02:21.47starseekerRalith: it's also possible when translating to move the mouse faster and have the mouse get further away from the knot
02:22.05starseekerit's like it's polling only every so often and losing dragging information as a result
02:22.40Ralithodd.
02:22.47Ralithsure that's not just an artifact of the 3D view?
02:23.42starseekerpretty sure
02:24.04starseekertry a small g3d window and doing the shift thing, moving the mouse quickly
02:24.19starseekeror do you mean the rotation?
02:24.23starseekerI doubt it
02:24.39starseekeryou could try another mesh to be sure
02:25.14starseekerchecks...
02:25.22starseekerno, there's a definite shift to the right
02:25.28starseekermaybe even some kind of inversion
02:26.52starseekerRalith: also, the command dialog doesn't seem to behave well when you hit run with an empty box
02:27.45Ralithseems to work fine here
02:27.53starseekerhmm
02:27.58Ralithwhat's it doing [wrong]?
02:28.27starseekerit just freezes, and you have to hit Command Dialog again to bring up a new one, enter something, then hit Run to clear it
02:28.41starseekercan you confirm the translate and rotate issues?
02:29.11Ralithfreezes? O.o
02:29.22Raliththere's not even multiple command dialogs
02:29.26Ralithjust the same one getting hidden/shown
02:29.35RalithI confirm the translate mismatch
02:29.40Ralithlemme watch that video to see the rotate thing
02:29.57starseekermakes a video of the dialog...
02:30.32starseekerhmm, now it's not doing it...
02:30.42starseekeroh
02:30.46Raliththat rotate thing is known
02:30.49starseekerMGED camera makes a difference
02:30.51Ralithtechnically a feature
02:30.52starseekerRalith: k
02:30.57starseekerblinks...
02:31.05Ralithbut imma scrap it once I work out what's responsible for it
02:31.41Ralithwhat it is is the camera keeping its local Y axis as closely aligned with the global Z axis as possible
02:33.05starseekerhttp://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/g3d_dialog_bug.avi
02:33.43starseekerThe knot getting smaller correlates with me clicking on Run
02:35.43starseekerRalith: http://www.ogre3d.org/wiki/index.php/Quaternion_and_Rotation_Primer
02:35.53starseekerspecifically, Q. Why do I occasionally get a flickering of my object while it is rotating?
02:36.45starseekeralso Q. How can I make my objects rotate smoothly? You mentioned slerp, etc?
02:37.01Ralithstarseeker: ah, I see, that *is* mged specific, almost certainly because it assigns meaning to a single mouseclick.
02:37.39starseekeruh... shouldn't it know it's over a dialog?
02:37.56Ralithshould.
02:38.01Ralithprobably an event propogation issue
02:54.56Ralithyeah
02:55.07Ralithstarseeker: and the pan issue is probably just a coordinate system conversion issue
02:55.16Raliththere's two or three different ones going on there
02:55.37RalithOgre's, Qt's window space coords, and possibly Qt's graphics scene space coords
02:56.22starseekerOh, so we already have what's in the ogre wiki?
03:04.42starseekeroh, pan not rotate
03:04.45starseekersmacks self
03:36.45Ralith:P
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05:47.49CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1602 10/wiki/User:EBautu: /* Results */
05:51.43CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03Ebautu 07http://brlcad.org * r1603 10/wiki/User:EBautu: /* Conclusions (added at the end of the project) */
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08:03.44CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35621 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/human.c:
08:03.44CIA-31BRL-CAD: replaced c99 idiom with c89 compatible one
08:03.44CIA-31BRL-CAD: (all declarations have to be on top of a block)
08:05.51CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35622 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added human.c (sync with Makefile.am)
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10:22.05CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r35623 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/surfaceintersect.cpp: Implemented SetCurveCurveIntersectionDir, to set the m_dirA, m_dirB fields of an ON_X_EVENT
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13:25.21CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35624 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/bigE.c: Handling each argument separately so that each has its own display list.
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13:28.34brlcadd_rossberg: have a great vacation!  ttyl whe you ge back
13:28.43brlcadthx for the note
13:43.44d_rossbergbrlcad: no problem
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15:07.47CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35625 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/bigE.c: Formatting.
15:16.21CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35626 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/human.c shapes/human.c): Procedural Human Generator now works, using libged directory.
15:16.46CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35627 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Added a tcl interface to Stevens human command.
15:18.59CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35628 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/ged.h src/libged/human.c): Const the av argument to ged_human. Declare ged_human in ged.h
15:20.32CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35629 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/humanwizard/HumanWizard.tcl: Fixed some variable names so they are consistent
15:52.08CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35630 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Adjustments to archer human wizard script, and making av in human.c constant
15:58.12CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35631 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (Makefile.am primitives/eto/eto_brep.cpp): Start fooling around with approaches to createing an eto brep.
16:09.27CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35632 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/eto/eto_brep.cpp: more eto_brep exploring.
16:19.18CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35633 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/eto/eto_brep.cpp: Well, the eto_brep file compiles at least...
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16:30.01CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35634 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (librt/Makefile.am proc-db/csgbrep.cpp): Eto brep is to the point where it generates something (not correct yet) so enable it in csgbrep procdb.
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16:39.23CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35635 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkhtml3/Makefile.in: yay, functional distcheck once again. this helps tkhtml3 find the pkgIndex.tcl file during distcheck and out-of-dir builds during make install.
16:41.10CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35636 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/human.c shapes/human.c): Disabled custom filename output for human generator to better fit with libged standards.
18:29.22CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35637 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (2 files in 2 dirs):
18:29.22CIA-31BRL-CAD: Fixed human.c to not close a non-existing database.
18:29.22CIA-31BRL-CAD: Reworked HumanWizard functionality.
19:06.40CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03Jdoliner 07http://brlcad.org * r1604 10/wiki/User:Jdoliner:
19:26.25CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35638 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/eto/eto_brep.cpp: More tweaking - got the default eto to work, not convinced solution is general.
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20:03.15CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35639 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/CMakeLists.txt: sync ell_brep.cpp and tor_brep.cpp .. why isn't distcheck halting?
20:57.40CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35640 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/cmakecheck.sh: aha! need to return a non-zero result in order to indicate missing files.
20:58.45CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35641 10/brlcad/trunk/Makefile.am: don't just print the return code, halt hard if the cmake files are out of sync. this should help.
21:00.26CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35642 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/eto/eto_brep.cpp: Clean up the logic for finding directions (thanks Ed)
21:01.14poolio_starseeker: I see you're playing around with all that brep code. If there's anything I can help you with just let me know :)
21:01.24starseekerpoolio_: cool, thanks!
21:01.33starseekeractually, I did have a question about the ell code
21:02.23starseekerI see where you got it out of the old bspline stuff, but when I tried it I get something that's a bit distorted
21:02.29starseekerdid the original code succeed?
21:04.57CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35643 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/CMakeLists.txt: sync missing brep files, woohoo because distcheck caught them and halted
21:09.37poolio_starseeker: I thought it did, but I didn't test it very thoroughly
21:12.14poolio_distorted as in totally wrong surface entirely?
21:12.52starseekerpoolio_: well, if you're bored you could debug ell_brep.cpp :-)
21:12.56starseekermakes screenshot
21:13.24poolio_moreso procrastinating than bored, but I can take a look :)
21:14.57starseekerhttp://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/ell.png
21:16.39starseekerpoolio: if you have trunk built, you can run csgbrep
21:16.39poolioSo when I tested it, I was only looking at the wireframe view because the raytracing didn't work well. Is the raytracing good now?
21:16.44brlcadprocrastination is a great productivity motivator :)
21:16.50CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35644 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: draw performance improvements
21:17.10pooliostarseeker: it's building now, so I may have to return to packing for a bit
21:17.34starseekerpoolio: raytracing should be good
21:17.34brlcadthe ray-tracing is pretty solid now -- there are a few minor issues but even complex geometry is rendering pretty well now
21:17.37starseekergood enough
21:18.02brlcadlikes the ying/yang ell
21:18.50starseekerexpects more issues will crop up once we have full CSG models converted for testing
21:18.54poolioso it is more probable that the geometry is wrong and the raytracing is right?
21:19.19starseekerdepends on the defect type
21:19.45starseekerI'm pretty sure the ell is geometry
21:22.06pooliodo we have a way to export breps that can be read by other cad software that we know works?
21:23.13brlcadour breps are 3dm data, would be trivial to dump a given object to a 3dm file and import into rhino or whatever
21:26.41``Eriksrc/brlcad/src/proc-db/csgbrep.cpp:139: undefined reference to `rt_eto_brep'
21:27.17starseeker``Erik: did you rebuild librt?
21:27.31``Eriktried...
21:34.09starseekersmacks automake
22:20.38CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r35645 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/dm-rtgl.h src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c): fully random job shuffling and point scaling to match completion
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02:37.45starseekerAh, it seems there was one other genuine ex-military Hummer on ebay this month
02:37.53starseekereep, $19,877
02:37.59starseekerguess they are collectors items
02:43.17starseekerhmm, yep, nother one up in that price range http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110424013836
03:00.01starseekerhah - YES! heck with the hummer:  http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220468730456
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11:28.30d-lomernin all!
11:44.49brlcadhowdy
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090824

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090824

15:58.37*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
15:58.37*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.8 posted (20090511) || GSoC2009 Next Step: code code, type type, commit frequently while you work! update wiki/blog on daily progress.
16:11.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35690 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp proc-db/csgbrep.cpp): Get an nmg example into csgbrep for debugging purposes, even though nmg_brep doesn't do anything yet.
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16:39.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35691 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Update killWrapper to remove duplicates from the kill list and the modified list.
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17:48.30brlcadd-lo: you aware that final eval deadline is today?
17:48.44d-loyessir.  Done did it already :)
17:48.49brlcadawesome
17:53.41brlcadRalith: jdoliner: filled yours out too I hope?
17:58.59jdolineri did indeed
18:02.07``Erikand d'lo is gone, saw him driving out as we got back from lunch (green turtle)
18:03.04brlcadhe answered
18:04.00``Erikyeh, but he's out now, 'sall I'm sayin' :)
18:04.23``Erikhe was probably surprised to see me driving a 4d car
18:11.24Yoshi47what the bext rendering technic i should use for my bearing, its done!
18:11.28jdolinerit's a uniquely depressing experience to discover a prototyped opennurbs function isn't actually implemented
18:16.07brlcadYoshi47: great, congratulations!
18:16.17brlcadYoshi47: you might want to try running "rtwizard"
18:16.26brlcadit has embedded help, various render styles
18:16.27Yoshi47brlcad, thanks, don't ask me how many hours so far!
18:16.35Yoshi47brlcad, ok i'll try that out
18:16.40brlcadotherwise, I tend to like rt rendering with an rtedge overlay
18:17.22brlcadtweaking shader properties, maybe adding textures and creating custom lights give the best result
18:17.48Yoshi47brlcad, i get this ./rtwizard: line 26: exec: bwish: not found when trying exec rtwizard
18:18.19starseekerbrlcad: just curious - is there any sort of "minimal" opengl scene graph setup that's smaller and lighter weight than Ogre/OpenSceneGraph?
18:18.19brlcado.O
18:18.30brlcadYoshi47: you haven't installed brl-cad?
18:18.46brlcadnice example rendering: http://brlcad.org/tmp/goliath2.png
18:18.54Yoshi47yep, svn install this morning, then autogen.sh -> ./configure -> make -> make install
18:19.07brlcadthen why's it saying ./rtwizard
18:19.10starseekeris /usr/brlcad/bin in your path?
18:19.30brlcadoh, hah, are you actually cd'd into /usr/brlcad/bin?
18:19.43Yoshi47brlcad, yeah but i forgot to make symbolic links...
18:19.45Yoshi47one sec
18:19.56brlcadshouldn't need to make any symbolic links :P
18:20.01Yoshi47i installe dinto /opt
18:20.10brlcadstill shouldn't need to make any symbolic links :P
18:20.22Yoshi47umm well im cd /opt/brlcad/bin/
18:20.30Yoshi47then tried rtwizard.
18:20.34Yoshi47bwish is there
18:20.35brlcadyeah, that's just a funny way to run things
18:20.46brlcadright, but how's it supposed to know bwish is there
18:20.57brlcadit's not like it knows it needs to run ./bwish because you ran ./rtwizard :)
18:21.10Yoshi47from my path...
18:21.14brlcadit just runs "bwish"
18:21.28Yoshi47right
18:21.39brlcadwhat happens if you just run "rtwizard"
18:22.12Yoshi47same thing
18:23.02brlcadif you run "bwish", what happens?
18:23.22Yoshi47bwish>
18:23.37Yoshi47well i ran ./bwish
18:23.41brlcadheh
18:23.42brlcaddude
18:23.58brlcad"rtwizard" is not "./rtwizard"
18:24.18brlcadnor is "bwish" "./bwish" :)
18:24.30brlcadyour path isn't set
18:24.42Yoshi47i guess i don't folly understand the principle yet, kinda do but not all the way
18:24.52brlcadyou have to set your path for binaries to be found
18:24.56Yoshi47brlcad, thats what i figured
18:25.24brlcadyou're fine when it's a stand-alone binary, but not when it's something that relies on other resources
18:25.37brlcadthat goes for any application, not just brl-cad tools
18:26.07brlcadexport PATH=/opt/brlcad/bin:$PATH
18:26.10brlcadfor bash at least
18:26.30Yoshi47got it
18:26.34Yoshi47thanks
18:27.17Yoshi47how long should it take to load
18:30.31brlcaddepends on how fast your system is, but there should be a progress meter
18:30.41brlcadunless you see it spit out an error
18:31.42Yoshi47no it was a seperate window 40% Megawidgets Packed
18:31.47Yoshi47still can go on though
18:35.29brlcadif it's not moving, it's stalled on something
18:37.15brlcad~seen Ralith
18:37.18ibotralith is currently on #brlcad, last said: ':P'.
18:37.21Yoshi47no i just close it and i can move on
18:37.37brlcadshould have prodded ralith over the weekend
18:41.42Yoshi47what type of file is outputted from the wizard? png or jpeg
18:42.11brlcadwell definitely not jpeg because we don't support any lossy formats
18:42.17brlcadbut either pix or png
18:42.18Yoshi47good
18:42.32Yoshi47outputs a corrupted file png
18:42.35Yoshi473MB big
18:42.48starseekerhmm - this is LGPL and looks like about 1M in size - wonder if it's any good?  http://plib.sourceforge.net/ssg/index.html
18:42.49brlcadare you sure it's a png?
18:42.58brlcadi'm betting it's a pix
18:43.05Yoshi47how do you specify i just ending the file name with png
18:43.12brlcadah, heh
18:43.18brlcadyeah, that won't do it
18:43.28brlcadif it has no options to say "png", then it's definitely a pix file
18:43.40brlcadpix are raw first quadrant image files
18:43.45brlcadyou can run pix-png to convert it
18:44.08Yoshi47ok i'll try that
18:44.08brlcad(pix-png -n 1024 -w 768 < file.pix > file.png
18:44.16brlcadfor a 1024x768 image of course
18:44.32brlcadit's a raw image, so you have to tell it what the dimensions are
18:45.31starseekerhrm.  maybe not so small - needs some plib utility libraries
18:45.32starseekernuts
18:46.45brlcadhm? que?
18:46.51starseekerer, sorry
18:47.18starseekerjust looking around to see if there is some kind of small scene graph library we could use in archer without including all of Ogre/OpenSceneGraph
18:47.18brlcadworking in *any* scene graph is going to be about the same amount of work, regardless of how complex it is
18:47.39brlcadmost of the work is on the archer/mged/libdm side of things
18:48.10starseekernods. Figured, but we probably can't justify pulling everything needed for Ogre just to make archer's wireframe behave better
18:48.31starseekerwas hoping there was something small that could be used just for Archer, prior to the new GUI work
18:49.17brlcadsure we could -- if it improves things, then it's progress -- an orge libdm interface would be very useful
18:49.56starseekerbut Ogre + deps would be a great deal larger than even opennurbs or docbook - wouldn't that be too much to pull in?
18:50.18starseekerat least, without something new and spectacular in the UI department?
18:50.21brlcadit is a lot for a small gain, depends how well it worked
18:50.47brlcadif it was perfectly seamless and fully integrated, I think it'd be worth it - but that's a big 'if'
18:50.53starseekernods
18:51.26starseekerI should explore the libdm setup and the new rtgl work, might be a good starting point
18:51.55brlcadcould still create an ogre libdm as a dev project, assume a system-installed ogre with an interface that is all or nothing on/off
18:52.05brlcadyeah, was going to say that
18:52.19brlcadthe way rtgl is now is far from ideal (and actually a bit of a problem)
18:52.52brlcadlibdm's api was originally constructed around displaying polygonal line segments
18:53.06starseekerwinces
18:53.23starseekerand I'm guessing we can't monkey with that API anytime soon?
18:53.26brlcadit needs to be more scenegraphish where you either set up rendering callbacks (probably ideal) or expand the api to more general entities
18:53.33brlcadsure we can
18:53.53starseekerwouldn't we be breaking external code?  Or does nobody use the dm directly?
18:54.04brlcadlibdm is fair game to change, so long as the archer and tcl megawidgets continue to "work"
18:54.14starseekerah :-)
18:54.18brlcadthe tcl megawidgets are used externally
18:54.59starseekerhates to expose his ignorance but had better - "rendering callbacks" refers to ?
18:55.12brlcadthe src/tclscripts/lib entities in particular
18:56.02brlcadokay, rendering callbacks are just like logging callbacks (if that helps)
18:56.11Yoshi47why is there little tiny dots here and there on my images?
18:56.23brlcadbut consider if you had something you wanted to draw, like a bunch of line segments that need to get sent to opengl
18:56.35brlcadYoshi47: screenshot?
18:56.45Yoshi47one sec.
18:57.20brlcada direct approach would be to have a place where your application code compiles a list of line segments, and then sends those to libdm saying "draw this" .. an immediate mode of sorts
18:58.18brlcada callback approach would be more like telling libdm, "call this function when it's time to draw" and then that function dispatches the things to be drawn in that callback function using a context libdm provides
18:58.48Yoshi47brlcad, http://ej.nijenhuis.pixi.me/v/CAD/
18:59.31brlcaddoesn't matter much for somethign simple like rendering line segments, but can be a big deal if you want to support arbitrary rendering methods (like ray-tracing or scene graphs) instead of just some subset of geometric entities
19:01.50starseekerbrlcad: OK.  Is there a pre-existing API you would like libdm to emulate?
19:06.09brlcadI'd just solve the problem as you go along -- it's pretty easy to tell where/when things go wrong because you end up with #ifdef code outside of libdm
19:06.10*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=Matthew@bas1-toronto21-1242460322.dsl.bell.ca)
19:06.35starseekernods
19:07.19starseekerwhen the rubber hits the road, what did you want to do about Ogre's build system?  do we assume cmake is available and trigger it with autoconf?
19:07.34Yoshi47is it how i rendered it, it also happens when rendering inside wged.
19:07.51starseeker(e.g. with Ogre living in src/other/ogre ...)
19:11.55brlcadfor the main brlcad line, I'd assume ogre was system installed like X and leave it at that for now -- you get another dm if you don't have it
19:12.07brlcadwe just make sure we have it when it comes time to release
19:12.24starseekerOK
19:13.53Yoshi47well since im done with bearing for now, back to my imported dxf shape, how should i extrude it?
19:18.54talciteahaha the review request has been posted! https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=518949
19:19.21brlcadRalith: wake up dude :)
19:26.48``ErikYoshi47: it'd be neat to see render_balls done with perspective mode and some scene around the object :)
19:28.12Yoshi47``Erik, i have to make the scene first, which leads back to my question 4 lines up... by the way how is my drawing? bad or not too bad for 3 days at it?
19:28.43``Erikdrawing?
19:29.58Yoshi47``Erik, what would you like? sorry
19:30.18``Erikthe model looks cool, I tend to just make a 'half' with a checkerboard shader and make the background color 'blue', so it comes out like http://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/primitives/niceballs.png.html
19:30.26``Erikbut just cuz it's really easy and quick *shrug*
19:31.36``Erikcould always concat it into like the bldg391.g or cornell.g just to get some real surroundings :)
19:31.43Yoshi47``Erik,  what degree perspective on it?
19:32.08``Erikplay with it? between 0 and 90, probably someting like 60ish would be good?
19:32.32``Erik(er, 0 and 180)
19:32.32Yoshi47``Erik, so you have no answer my extruding?
19:32.38``Erikno, I don't :(
19:33.02``Erikmaybe brlcad knows, but he's off napping or playing with his hello kitty dolls again or something
19:33.04Yoshi47``Erik, umm, i would figure more people would be extruding stuff on a regular basis.
19:33.35``Erik<-- tends to stick to lower level stuff, doesn't know squat about modelling :)
19:34.03Yoshi47``Erik, well someones got to do the lower stuff, i know i can't
19:35.04brlcadYoshi47: those dots are floating point tolerance bugs where two faces are overlapping -- the boolean logic is ill-defined, a very old issue
19:35.15``Erikhas been thinking about replacing libbu's red/black tree with a generalized tree interface (callbacks in a struct) O.o
19:35.32Yoshi47brlcad, umm ok, i guess nothing we can do
19:36.00Yoshi47brlcad, you also don't have a answer about extruding?
19:36.04brlcadYoshi47: you can eliminate the artifacts by restructuring the booleans, but it's usually easiest to just render larger and scale down
19:36.21brlcadthe points are hairline floating point so they won't scale up with the image
19:36.22``Erikor hypersample
19:36.26Yoshi47brlcad, i'll keep in mind for the next render
19:36.55brlcadyeah, hypersampling should minimize it too -H4 or larger
19:37.14brlcadhasn't even read the question about extruding yet .. lots of threads goin :)
19:38.15``Erikimporting a dxf 'shape' is an iffy thing, we only handle triangle meshes from autocad, not anything like a 2d layout
19:38.20``ErikI think
19:38.27brlcadas for 3 days at it .. newbie time scale .. that shouldn't have taken more than an hour or less
19:38.46brlcadi bet if you did it again, it'd only take a day now
19:38.57brlcadand then do it again, probably half a day
19:39.07brlcadfast falloff
19:39.19brlcadtalcite: awesome!
19:44.08Yoshi47brlcad, i bet i could do it under and hour now...
19:45.27Yoshi47``Erik, so what your saying im better off redrawing, shouldn't be too hard but a couple hours since i got like 4 extrusions to do...
19:49.54CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35692 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: note that the rotation values for clone's -b option are in degrees, as suggested by Yoshi47 on IRC.
19:51.09brlcadtalcite: the floating point compliance problem is real, but I haven't yet seen it be an actual problem anywhere yet -- several platforms report that
19:51.28brlcadcross-compiling might have caused it even
19:51.36talciteoh ok. It just might be because I'm cross compiling in this case
19:51.42Yoshi47brlcad, what does the CIA-28 mean? that the help will be updated or has been?
19:51.44talciteyeah. It didn't show up in native compiles
19:52.21brlcadstarseeker: arbn is implicitly defined as the boundary enclosed by the surfaces resulting from those intersecting planes .. so yeah, implicit ;)
19:53.17brlcadYoshi47: that it has been
19:53.22brlcadthat's a live source change notification
19:59.51*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedyII (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
20:03.03Yoshi47brlcad, cool, i love Open Source
20:04.05brlcadopen source rocks ;)
20:04.18*** join/#brlcad cosurgi (n=cosurgi@atak.bl.pg.gda.pl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
20:04.31brlcadeven better, you keep finding reporting little things like that, could even set it up so more changes could be made
20:04.34brlcadeven by you! ;)
20:04.37*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
20:05.15Yoshi47brlcad, cool
20:07.18Yoshi47brlcad, im still having a hard time crasping the concept behind this, if i desing my extrusion a foot long how easy is it later on to extrude that to what ever lenght i would like? would OED work on it for changing the length and then that would push down to the primitive shapes?
20:10.29brlcadit should, but not sure I've heard of anyone try
20:11.09brlcadwould be pretty simple to do an adjust or primitive edit to change the length given it's a simple vector
20:15.04brlcadadjust extrude1.s H {0 0 100}
20:15.34brlcad"get extrude1.s" will show all of his parameters
20:15.56brlcadnote that's a low-level operation -- if you mess up, you're screwed
20:16.27brlcadit WILL let you make invalid geometry and then never let you mess with that object again (because it's invalid) .. so be careful, make a backup, etc
20:17.23Yoshi47so if my extrusion is a region this should be possible too...
20:17.32Yoshi47or even a group?
20:17.47brlcadyour extrusion is not a region
20:17.56brlcadyour region may contain/reference an extrusion
20:18.43brlcadthat get/adjust example works on primitives
20:19.06brlcadthe get on a combination/region/group is going to simply show you the objects they reference and any transformation matrices
20:19.26Yoshi47ok but in order for me to get me extrusion shape i need to make multiple shapes and then put them in a region with -+u and then i have a region, can i change to whole region and all its children at once or just individual members
20:20.08Yoshi47i think i'll just make my extrusion a foot long and then try it when im done, should be a good learning experience.
20:20.54brlcadusing get/adjust, that's specific to primitives and per-object -- I'd suggest just trying an example of scaling down an extrusion in the same direction as it's H vector and it *should* modify the H after a push
20:21.05brlcador leave it unpushed, shouldn't matter
20:21.36Yoshi47brlcad, ok
20:21.38Yoshi47thanks
20:30.02Yoshi47cya for now, be on later
20:47.37*** join/#brlcad Yoshi47 (n=jan@d72-39-56-44.home1.cgocable.net)
20:56.16``Erikis running around making people look at yoshi's renderings O:-)
20:58.09*** join/#brlcad matthewmpp (n=chatzill@wsip-98-172-82-189.ph.ph.cox.net)
21:01.28starseekerthinks a procdb that can generate bearings to spec is in order :-)
21:05.27Yoshi47starseeker, me aggree
21:06.20Yoshi47``Erik, how are you running around making people look at my renderings?
21:08.33Yoshi47im going to swear
21:08.53``Erikrunning around saying "hey, ya got a web browser handy? check this out"
21:09.06Yoshi47oh at your work,
21:22.49Yoshi47does brl-cad make backups of anykind?
21:23.07brlcadmged does not
21:23.10brlcadarcher does
21:23.14Yoshi47brlcad, crap
21:23.21Yoshi47you'll never what i did
21:23.23brlcadotherwise, very unforgiving of mistakes
21:23.36brlcadhence my comment about being very careful earlier and making backups :)
21:23.38Yoshi47not brlcad fault, my own stupidity
21:24.03Yoshi47improper use of rsync
21:24.13brlcadeek
21:24.19Yoshi47yep
21:24.23Yoshi47thats what i did
21:24.35brlcadyeah, even archer wouldn't have helped in that case :)
21:24.45Yoshi47good thing i can recreate it in under an hours, if only i had the bearing with me, i left it at work
21:25.00Yoshi47oh well,, atleast i got renderings for now.
21:26.29Yoshi47remember most of the measurements but not all...
21:47.37brlcadso you lost the whole thing??
21:47.43Yoshi47brlcad, yep
21:47.48Yoshi47i sad
21:47.49brlcadway to put that rework measurement to test :)
21:47.59brlcadyou'd make a great case study about the learning curve
21:48.02Yoshi47brlcad, yep, knock on wood
21:48.28Yoshi47well i plan on doing it tomorrow,
21:48.28brlcadif you do recreate, please do share how long it takes... :)
21:48.31Yoshi47so i'll time myself
21:48.34brlcadcool
21:48.57brlcadwhat's your fs?
21:49.16Yoshi47i can't see it taking that long, most of my time was playing around with commands, especially that clone one...
21:49.38brlcadclone gave you trouble?
21:49.41Yoshi47one sec got to ssh in i forget,
21:49.44brlcad(other than the rads/degs)
21:49.55Yoshi47brlcad, a little had to figure that degrees thing out...
21:50.02Yoshi47brl maybe 10mins on that
21:50.38Yoshi47etx3
21:50.47Yoshi47i know there is an undelete for that right?
21:50.59Yoshi47but have no clue how to work it or start using it
21:51.03Yoshi47ext3*
21:51.21brlcadit's not exactly an undelete, but there is a way you can try to recover
21:51.56Yoshi47well im willing...
21:56.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35693 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: Start sketching out a way to get enough info for BREP surfaces out of NMG faces.
21:58.32mafmYoshi47: http://www.xs4all.nl/~carlo17/howto/undelete_ext3.html
21:58.34mafmgood luck
21:58.37mafm:)
21:58.48Yoshi47mafm, ya im reading it already
21:58.49brlcadyeah, it's quite involved
21:59.00Yoshi47brlcad,  i think it will be faster to redraw
21:59.27mafmthinks undeleted and on-line defrag would be ext4's flagship features
21:59.35mafmyet none of those are available yet :/
22:00.16brlcadyou could probably find the .g file in a raw search of the drive -- our start of file marker is pretty specific
22:01.28Yoshi47brlcad, how would one go about a raw search?
22:02.31brlcadsomething like: grep -a -5 "Untitled BRL-CAD Database" /dev/hdawhatever > output.bin
22:02.46brlcadmight have to unmount the drive
22:02.52mafmI think that there are specific tools for that
22:03.12mafmsearching for files still present, matching a pattern
22:03.50brlcadthe trick is to find your title or some other easily findable content, then dump enough context around that marker, then manually strip out the rest with a hex edit
22:04.42brlcadthat ext3grep tool is basically doing something similar, but walking the inode structure -- a raw grep or dd is much lower-level
22:04.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35694 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/human.c: Fixed a problem where name holder variables were not being properly initialized.
22:05.16brlcadwhich should help finding a match whether it was in the journal or on the fs or memory cache or whatever
22:07.17brlcadshould have had you post your .g somewhere to check it out :)
22:07.37Yoshi47brlcad, yep
22:08.06brlcadand you're sure you didn't just sync it to a remote host.. hehe
22:08.30Yoshi47nope i was going to sync from work to home but did the other way and with out update on
22:22.16Yoshi47well shes searching...
22:23.57brlcad-5 probably isn't going to be enough, but the trick first is to just *find* the string, then expand the context until it matches the whole file
22:24.04brlcadthen hex edit
22:25.55Yoshi47i got freebsd burning to a dvd for my notebook right now
22:25.58Yoshi47going to give it a shot
22:26.12Yoshi47brlcad, install better be easy! lol
22:27.42*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
22:28.22Yoshi47i kinda don't want to find it too, i want to give that redraw thing a timing test. lol
22:34.42Yoshi47brlcad, how big do you think my db would of been? .5mb 1mb 10mb?
22:35.10brlcadless than 1mb for sure
22:35.31brlcadprobably not more than 2-4kb actually, but hard to say what junk you had in there ;)
22:35.40Yoshi47i got a whole bunch of txt files back
22:35.47Yoshi47from ralf
22:35.59brlcaddid you set a title?
22:36.15Yoshi47yep
22:36.17Yoshi47608Z
22:36.19brlcadyou'll want to search a unique identifier
22:36.55brlcadyeah, that's not distinctive enough
22:40.24brlcadbut...
22:40.30brlcadprobably could find it with..
22:40.34brlcadwhat was your grep?
22:40.53brlcad'title[^[:print:]]608Z'  should be pretty darn specific
22:41.14Yoshi47i used http://projects.izzysoft.de/trac/ext3undel/
22:41.30Yoshi47but it return a dir i delete a while ago, i thinks it gone...
22:41.44Yoshi47oh well, well just have to test our time theory out i don't mind too much
22:41.55Yoshi47second time is always a charm
22:42.13brlcadtry the /dev/hda grep in the background, just let it run overnight or something :)
22:42.49brlcadgrep -a -10000 'title[^[:print:]]608Z' /dev/hda1 > output.bin
22:43.25brlcador whatever you have that fs mounted as, ideally direct output to something not on /dev/hda1 :)
22:43.35brlcad-10000 should be plenty to capture the file
22:44.31Yoshi47wouldn't that also capture the current one or both?
22:44.39Yoshi47i guess both its grepping, duh
22:45.03brlcadyeah
22:45.43Yoshi47here we go with fbsd
22:45.54brlcadyou can test it with grep -a 'title[^[:print:]]608Z' yourfile.g  | less
22:45.58brlcadshould see the file ;)
22:48.16Yoshi4788G to search through
22:49.23brlcadyeah, that'll take a while :)
22:49.53Yoshi47fbsd install kinda hard
22:50.06brlcad?
22:50.20Yoshi47oh, got to create a freebsd slice
22:50.21brlcadI didn't suggest you install fbsd did I? :)
22:50.45Yoshi47brlcad, yes, im going to give it a try on my notebook since it needs a reload anyways, got a newer one
22:50.47brlcadI mean, love the OS, but one learning curve per week is pretty respectable ;)
22:51.01Yoshi47brlcad, na i take on lots
22:51.02brlcadah, fun
22:51.51brlcadfbsd desktop is not my first choice, but the dev environment, stability, and server features are top-notch
22:52.31brlcadcourse, last time I had it on desktop was many years ago, so not fair to speak to what their status is today
22:53.03Yoshi47brlcad, what you use for desktop?
22:53.50brlcadmostly macosx these days, live in terminal windows and emacs most of the time ;)
22:53.58Yoshi47ah
22:54.43brlcadgentoo and ubuntu have had a fairly strong presense in the past
22:55.08brlcadI have a real strong sweet spot in my heart for haiku as beos used to be a primary for several years for me too
22:55.57brlcadi give that a try a couple times a year it seems, report all the bugs I find and return back to something that just works
22:57.15Yoshi47well the install sucks
22:57.38Yoshi47maybe try arch
23:10.18``Erikbah, things that just work are no fun :D
23:11.41Yoshi47``Erik, nice
23:11.52Yoshi47don't worry i will most likely get fed up with it and return once again to gentoo
23:12.14``Erik<-- is a bit of the masochistic "everything at once" mentality... currently doing common lisp, emacs, and web development all at once
23:12.25``Erikbeing a vim/c/systems guy 'n all
23:17.40Yoshi47so whats for supper
23:19.24brlcadoof, yeah.. haven't eaten today, damn
23:19.37brlcadhate it when I forget that
23:23.37Ralithbrlcad: oh, thanks for the prod
23:23.56Ralith``Erik: yay emacs! :D
23:24.10Ralith(yay CL too, for that matter)
23:25.28Ralithopens email, gets intimidated by volume of spam, and just goes to the site directly
23:25.35Yoshi47umm whole wheat bread and peanute butter and chocolate sprinkles
23:27.50brlcadRalith: they debated for a little while whether to fail the five students that didn't fill out their own evals... :)
23:27.57Ralithwups.
23:27.58brlcadI was a proponent of the "not fail" option
23:28.00brlcad:)
23:28.03Raliththank you for that.
23:28.23Yoshi47lol
23:28.23Ralithprobably should have jumped to it the moment he saw the email subject line a couple days ago
23:28.24brlcadtold them you were up until 5am coding :)
23:28.39brlcadand coding all weekend, so it sounded great ;)
23:28.43Ralith^^
23:28.57brlcadI should have nagged more too
23:29.08brlcadI didn't exactly send out my own reminder mails to everyone
23:29.09Yoshi47at least someone happy ihave to go through time trials now!
23:29.11brlcadbusy summer
23:29.22brlcadYoshi47: hehe, cool
23:29.33brlcadbut then that definitely will be a good note to send out ;)
23:30.03brlcadI'm really curious how long you'd take on redo now that "most" of the tool learning is out of the way, and there's some basic memorization in place
23:30.58brlcadfor govt folks, they generally go through a week or two of hands-on modeling training and you can see (and measure) the rate increase pretty directly
23:31.10Yoshi47im guessing under 2 hours,im going to setup a stop watch because i will get annoyig user(like me) asking questions...
23:31.41brlcadit's interesting to see that everyone is different, but most settle at some base "rate" of comprehension and retention .. there's definitely diminishing returns
23:31.51RalithYoshi47: don't do yourself a disservice; you haven't been annoying, on an absolute scale and certainly not compared to many of the people you can find on IRC.
23:32.13brlcadhaven't been at all annoying, live for this stuff ;)
23:32.16Ralithif anything, it's nice to have newbies around learning the ropes; gives the place a feeling of activity.
23:32.21Ralithvivacity*
23:32.31Yoshi47Ralith, thanks, hey q for you, will you be working on gui over the school year or not
23:32.38RalithI certainly hope to
23:32.49Yoshi47cool
23:32.52brlcadthat would be awesome :)
23:32.59RalithI've invested enough effort in this project that it would be depressing to just drop it.
23:33.12Ralithand I did, after all, start in on it because it was something I wanted to happen.
23:33.13brlcadand it's actually starting to approach usable
23:33.23Ralith^^
23:33.34brlcadit's converging towards lots of the same things archer needs under the hood libged-wise
23:33.45Yoshi47good, well if you need any help on gui design i have a little bit of experience with that, i have helped with kiosk software, hey i should show you guys a picture of my kiosk design.
23:33.49RalithI'm really looking forward to digging around the display list code and hooking that up
23:33.55brlcadwhich happens to be a lot of the same that search exec needs, and other priorities
23:34.25RalithYoshi47: oh?  I'd certainly be very interested in any comments you have, even on the current highly incomplete state.
23:34.57``Erikbah, I shoulda sent an email as well... allz I did was hollar at indianlarry :/
23:34.59Yoshi47Ralith, i will have yo learn how to downlaod and compile it, since i don't think its in svn
23:35.06RalithYoshi47: it's in SVN.
23:35.22Yoshi47so if i compiled this morning it will be inthere?
23:35.36Ralithbefore I get to the fun stuff I still need to fix that damned input handling bug (the filter that sends input to camera control is for some reason getting events from *everything*, leading to strange behavior)
23:35.45RalithYoshi47: it's not part of brl-cad proper.
23:35.52Ralithbuild system isn't integrated
23:35.58Ralithdifferent tree
23:36.01Ralithbut it's still there.
23:36.11Ralithit's in rt^3/src/g3d
23:36.45Yoshi47oh ok, well im busy right now but i will be sure to look at it soon hopefully.
23:36.56Yoshi47i started learning qt4 this spring
23:38.05``Erik"well... a certain kind of pirate, yes, we've been called that" "is there some kind of preschool program?" hehehe good old family guy
23:38.56RalithYoshi47: cool! Direct contributions are certainly welcome as well.
23:39.11Raliththat input bug, for example, is a qt-wrangling issue.
23:39.38Yoshi47i don't know if im there, since it takes me long enough to get a basic app going, currently working FANO (food and nutrional organizer)
23:40.16``Erikwait, did we lose 2? I thought we had 5 at the beginning
23:41.14``Erikhuh, only 4, *think*
23:41.22``Erikwait, I remember now heh :)
23:42.06CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35695 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: annotate a couple of the header tasks to make life easier
23:42.29brlcad~seen madant
23:42.31ibotmadant <i=cb7baf0f@gateway/web/freenode/x-a32eed164597bd06> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 52d 3h 20m 37s ago, saying: 'nothing more disastrous than non-cooperative softwares ;)'.
23:43.45brlcad``Erik: ralith was d-lo's not indianlarry's
23:44.16Ralithobserves that it might be advisable in the future to associate mentors based on timezone
23:44.23``Erikhrm? I know... O.o
23:44.32Ralithnot that this was a real problem thanks to IRC, but still.
23:45.00``Erika week or two ago, when one of the 'almost time' emails came out, I let indianlarry know it was approaching, so he could do his part... not so he could probe his student :)
23:45.05brlcadahh
23:46.49Yoshi47heres a link to my prototype Kiosk we call it the "Miniky" since the first one was different and way bigger" i do have another prototype after this one that has rounded corners, and a slide out filter tray and a little different design on the back, enjoy!
23:46.50Yoshi47http://ej.nijenhuis.pixi.me/v/kiosk/
23:47.08brlcadsomeone should take a look at what jra just implemented in jbrlcad to convert it to librt...
23:47.34Yoshi47is brlcad using java libs?
23:47.39brlcadmaybe a src/conv tool that uses it .. arb6tobot
23:47.40Ralithno.
23:47.47brlcadyeah, no. ;)
23:47.48Raliththere was an experimental thing
23:47.52Ralithbut afaik it's dead now
23:47.57brlcadit's not dead
23:47.57Yoshi47Ralith, good
23:48.00Ralithinactive?
23:48.04``Erikwell, there's jbrlcad which is a tiny subset of librt written in java, but it's seperate
23:48.14``Erikdaytona pokes at it on occasion
23:48.14brlcadit's actually in production use.. it's just "done enough" for that purpose for now
23:48.21Yoshi47umm
23:48.28brlcadnone of our tools uses it
23:48.41Yoshi47why would they use java for just a tiny bit?
23:48.51``Erikand there's src/librtserver/ which exposes some of the C librt to java via JNI, but it requires java interface classes that are not publically available
23:49.08brlcadlibrtserver is closer to being dead
23:49.27``Erikand a notion that we'd like to expose a lot of our shtuff via swig, which'd allow a java target
23:49.39``Erikare they giving up librtserver for the GS?
23:49.39brlcadjbrlcad lets them access a .g and shoot rays at geometry without needing to bridge across JNI
23:50.14*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.202.224)
23:50.49Yoshi47what does the whole collaborative thing do? network helping? viewing?
23:51.08Ralithwhich collaborative thing?
23:51.29Raliththe geometry server project is at least in part targeted at allowing people to work together on a single model, I believe.
23:51.37Ralithbut I doubt that's what you're talking about
23:51.54Yoshi47the menu item under modes
23:52.02Ralithoh, an mged thing.
23:52.15Yoshi47ya
23:52.37Yoshi47thats all i know right now, besides, g-dxf, dxf-g, pix-png
23:53.00Ralithhuh. no idea.
23:53.01Yoshi47ive only touch a bit
23:53.23Yoshi47Ralith, didni't you do through the whole old interface before designing the new one?
23:53.32Ralithnope.
23:53.54RalithI'm familiar with its basics, but I fall far short of knowing the function of every menu item :P
23:54.08brlcadwhen you turn on collaborate, another mged can attach and you share the same geometry view
23:54.21Ralithneat!
23:54.26Yoshi47another mged from another pc or same X
23:54.28mafmcongratz, gsoc folks
23:55.26Yoshi47on behalf of gsoc folks, thank you! lol
23:55.45mafmI mean Ralith and the rest
23:55.50Yoshi47im their spokes person
23:55.51Yoshi47i know
23:55.54``Erikheh
23:55.55mafmthough I don't see the rest around much :P
23:55.57Yoshi47no one was answrring
23:56.04``Erikraises his beer to all the gsoc folk O.o
23:56.14*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.8 posted (20090511) || GSoC2009 Next Step: upload your code to google, wait for shirt ;) thanks everyone!
23:56.15Yoshi47i raised my MUG(root beer)
23:56.17Ralithdoes think that the rest are missing out by not IRCing harder.
23:56.23Ralithupload to google?
23:56.37brlcadyou have to upload your code to google
23:56.50Ralithokie.
23:56.52brlcadit's technically what they pay you for, you're "testing" their upload service :)
23:56.56Ralithheh
23:56.59Ralithdigs for menu item
23:56.59Yoshi47lol
23:57.01louipcyou have to upload all your patches?
23:57.07brlcadyeah, basically
23:57.13Ralither, that sounds complicated.
23:57.13louipcCRAZY
23:57.17Ralithcan I just send them a tarball of g3d? :P
23:57.29``Eriksome mentors can't irc from work and want to spent their home time with their family *shrug* I know it sounds insane, but some people honestly have better things to do than sit around on irc O:-)
23:57.36Yoshi47zip then encrypt it too!
23:57.36Ralith(yeah, I know, I'll find their docs)
23:57.38``Erikdoes not. :(
23:57.42Ralith``Erik: I mean the students
23:57.47louipcRalith: send them a diff from when you started ;)
23:57.52louipchehehhhe
23:57.56brlcadI think they just want the code you wrote/worked on, but an svn diff from when you started to know might be sufficient too -- have to read the requirement
23:58.01``Erikyeh, the students benefit quite a bit from jabbering on irc I think
23:58.13RalithI know I have
23:58.19Ralithnot to mention being easily accessible for brlcad to poke at >_>
23:58.31brlcad:)
23:58.35brlcadpokes Ralith
23:58.36Yoshi47me too, even though im not part of it, but im a BRL-CAD studen, level newbie
23:58.39Ralithjumps
23:58.42brlcadbeen a good summer
23:58.45``Erikdoes svn have fu to say "show me the differences between -rX and -rY that <user> did"? (I'd be surprised)
23:59.03Ralithwell, iirc noone else has committed to g3d so I'm okay there
23:59.07Ralithjust need to dig up the right revision
23:59.27Yoshi47should of taken a snapshot when you started
23:59.27``Erik(heh, might be an argument for darcs or git or bzr... :/ )
23:59.29louipcwooo
23:59.29brlcadnope, no user grepping that i'm aware of internally
23:59.34brlcadprobably have to log raw and search
23:59.38``Erikyoshi: that doesn't help when other people touch the same code
23:59.46Yoshi47``Erik, true
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090825

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090825

00:00.14mafmRalith: other students sometimes post scripts for that
00:00.15Yoshi47you should be able to see just your if you used yoru username to snv
00:00.22mafmto get only your commits in svn, for example
00:01.14louipcyeah you could make a script to spit out a buttload of diffs you committed
00:01.20``Erikif you're on the commit mailing list, just grab all the emails with your patches and aggregate them? *shrug* I'd hope most people have access to email clients powerful enough to do that
00:01.44Ralithmost people have access to all sorts of fun stuff
00:01.46``Erikor write a script to svn log . | grep <username> and dork with the rev#'s
00:01.50Ralithbut that doesn't mean they can use it.
00:02.08mafmnow off to bed, night!
00:02.12Yoshi47cya
00:02.15``Erikhasta
00:02.27louipcbye mafm
00:03.03Yoshi47way off the rocker here but anyone seen a basic g code (CNC machine lang) exported in brl?
00:03.15Ralitha few people have tried
00:03.19Ralithjonored got very close but dissapeared
00:03.27Yoshi47umm
00:03.32Ralithsomeone else was talking about writing one but I haven't seen him around for a while
00:03.51Ralithbear in mind it's a nontrivial task because g-code is toolpaths, not shape data.
00:03.55``Erikisn't stl a common format for cnc type folk? we have g-stl
00:03.59Yoshi47well if i was a good coders i'd try
00:04.11``Erik(and then other tools generate the path/bit info from the shape?)
00:04.37``ErikYoshi47: check out http://gcam.js.cx/
00:04.40Ralith``Erik: that's correct
00:04.41Ralithbut lossy
00:04.43Yoshi47<PROTECTED>
00:04.46Ralithvery lossy in fact
00:05.03louipcyeah stl wouldn't be good for precision machining
00:05.18Yoshi47maybe > .01
00:05.24Yoshi47or not even?
00:05.42``Eriklossy in the g->stl, or the stl->gerber ?
00:05.54``Erikcuz if you have time, you can crank the precision way up for g->stl
00:06.13Yoshi47well im back to gentoo
00:06.14Yoshi47lol
00:06.26``Erikone adventure at a time? :)
00:06.30louipcfbsd's still uninstallable?
00:06.33louipc:P
00:07.01``Erikfbsd has a nice installer, but it has unix notions which are very alien to linux people (who are more in sync with dos/windows people)
00:07.02Ralithbrlcad: should I make an effort to include every single change I made, or just the g3d stuff?  The only real non-g3d commits I've made were moving the cmake modules for finding Ogre, Qt, etc. into the rt^3 cmake dir.
00:07.06Yoshi47louipc, yeah to much to learn so little time, i need to get me temp joomla site on my notebook for a meeting tomorrow
00:07.08louipcI got it working before, but it just felt so primitive
00:07.13``Erikpcbsd is the bsd that targets "noobs"
00:07.15Ralith``Erik: also the installer's pretty much unmaintained >_>
00:07.27``Erikwhat're you talking about? the installer gets loving every release
00:07.38Yoshi47oh well, i know gentoo half decent so i'll stick with it
00:07.41``Erik(but they still don't deal with usb keyboards in the holoshell, damnit)
00:07.52louipclinux feels more modern for some reason
00:08.03Ralithreally?  When I was a fbsd user, it was one of the pieces everyone couldn't wait to replace
00:08.22louipchah
00:08.30Yoshi47hey when i redo my bearing with a nice background will it get put on the website or does it have to go throughthe critics board first?
00:08.39``Erika lot of people wanted a gui installer, like mandrake, but those're awfully wasteful for a little eye candy for newbies :/
00:08.49louipcyeah those are lame
00:08.52Ralithjust a lessy buggy one would do
00:08.59``Erikthat argument is kinda what spawned the pcbsd fork
00:09.21``Erikthat and making the fresh install fire up a gui by default
00:09.30louipctheres no reason the console environment can't be noob friendly though
00:10.53``Erikmeh *shrug* I just installed fbsd 7.2 a couple weeks ago, didn't have any issues, see any bugs, or have any reason to complain... was able to go from "I wanna install" to "booted up on a fresh and configured system" in the span where a redhat install did like 20% of its package install
00:10.53louipcYoshi47:  more.brlcad.org?
00:11.13Yoshi47i don't know the gallery from the wiki
00:12.09louipcyou could actually post the .g file in the model repository
00:12.35``Erikyoshi: looking at that bearing where the balls are exposed: are there supposed to be one or two more bearings in there, or are they actually supposed to be that loose? and are the gutters in the runners supposed to be that deep? how would it be assembled? they press them together and rely on elastic deformation of the metal, right?
00:12.58``Erikheh, I said "where the balls are exposd" hehehehehehe mmm hehehehhehe
00:13.04``Erik</beavis>
00:13.56Yoshi47no they actually have a carriage in there that keeps the balls seperated, the carriage a very wierd shape and looks to be very hard to draw. everything else was measured
00:14.11``Erikahh, a plastic dealiemajigger?
00:14.11Yoshi47accurate to 0.1 mm
00:14.15louipcthey can be loosish
00:14.19Yoshi47nope actaully to steel things
00:14.23louipcgrease up the slack
00:14.24``Erikah, neat
00:14.26Yoshi47they can
00:14.38Yoshi47i will take pics tomorrow
00:14.48``Erikhow big is the assembly?
00:14.50Yoshi47of the assembly and disassembly if your like
00:14.56Yoshi47the bearing
00:14.56``Erikis that the 2cm diameter one?
00:15.07Yoshi4722mm OD and 8mm ID
00:15.12Yoshi477mm wide
00:15.22Yoshi47balls are 4mm in dia
00:15.46Yoshi47groove is a tor  with rad 1 = 7.5 and rad 2= 2
00:15.49``Eriksmall, musta been hard to measure :) micrometer time
00:16.02Yoshi47vernier actually
00:16.07Yoshi47digital so its easy
00:16.09Ralithwho's responsible for MoRe?
00:16.09``Erikah
00:16.25Yoshi47and i have near sitted vision so i can see thing up close like a microscope
00:16.27``Erikralith: elena developed it
00:16.29louipcebautu
00:16.30louipc?
00:17.07``Erikcool beans, yoshi, I don't have access to neat toys, I have a cheap plastic caliper :)
00:17.15Yoshi47i have they day off tomorrow, i forgot, so i will have no distractions and i can do a good time trial, yes! its on...
00:17.35Yoshi47``Erik, $15 on sale a canadian tire, accurate to 1 thou
00:18.08``Erikis in md, the 51st state is a bit of a hike O:-)
00:18.16Ralithhm
00:18.25Ralithwhere can I find the code upload form?
00:19.15Yoshi47``Erik, i have 2 of them, lol
00:19.43Ralithfound the 2008 google code project
00:20.15louipcYoshi47: where was it made? :P
00:20.45Ralithbut that's, well, 2008
00:20.48Yoshi47matercraft, i don't know but for the price they are pretty good, can even be used for maching
00:21.15Yoshi47louipc, i was suprised how tight the tolerences are on it, im pretty piky that way.
00:22.24louipcyeah I guess there's no point in being too picky with a caliper.
00:23.01``Erikhttp://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-announce/web/how-to-provide-google-with-sample-code
00:23.14Yoshi47nope and anything i draw it is good enough, maybe i'll give that ball carriage a go tomorrow! next challenge, after my time trial to get back my bearing
00:23.31louipccool
00:23.34Yoshi47will most likely take double the time then the bearing
00:23.47``Erikthat's for 08, but it might give ya hints for how to do it in 09? *shrug*
00:24.10louipcmaybe you can be one of the usability guys :D
00:24.23Yoshi47louipc, what do you mean?
00:24.46louipcthere's something like gsoc, but focusing on usability
00:25.02Yoshi47oh a tester/
00:25.11louipcI forgot what the url is..
00:25.43``Erikme too, I vagually remember that project... we even talked about submitting parts of BRL-CAD to it, iirc
00:26.44louipchttp://www.openusability.org/ ?
00:28.09Yoshi47yep
00:29.01Ralith``Erik: hm, seems like maybe I just need to wait
00:31.06``Erikopenusability.org doesn't seem very... alive...
00:32.25``Erikseason announcement in march, call for students in april... then nothing... (the announcement says june-aug, nothing about wrapup, selection, anything)
00:33.49Yoshi47what should i draw in brl tonight?
00:34.08louipcan impeller
00:34.13Yoshi47lol, your funny
00:34.22Yoshi47something i can get done tonight
00:34.26Yoshi47but yeah that would be fun
00:34.29louipca tiny one
00:34.41Yoshi47well i do like a challenge
00:34.52Ralithlouipc: wouldn't that need NURBS?
00:34.57Yoshi47do i have impeller herE?
00:34.59Yoshi47umm
00:35.34louipcRalith: yeah nurbs would help
00:35.49Yoshi47louipc, what one? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pump_Impellers-1.jpg
00:35.59Ralithconsidering that that's alpha-quality at best, last I chcked, that's a bad choice :P
00:36.39Ralithof course he could just make a primitive one
00:36.40louipchow bout this one? http://www.friotherm.com/impeller.jpg
00:37.32Yoshi47you pushing it
00:37.37Ralithlol
00:37.53Ralithgood luck with that
00:38.23louipcI still have to figure out how to model properly shaped threads
00:38.37Yoshi47specs?
00:39.20louipcdunno, just a standard 60 deg thread
00:39.41Yoshi47i was talking about the impeller
00:39.58louipcoh sorry I was just joshing you
00:40.55Yoshi47not you too. everyone does that too me
00:41.10Yoshi47i pick a little easier impeller
00:41.23Yoshi47since you too extranvagent
00:41.24``Erikyoshi: some popular beginner exercises are a mug, a pinewood derby car, a pen, a book case, ...
00:42.00Ralithooh, found a script
00:42.17Yoshi47``Erik, i did the mug
00:42.30``Eriklook around your desk for something simple? :)
00:42.39louipcyou went through vol II eh?
00:42.47Yoshi47the intro...
00:43.19``Erikooh, model a 2002 bmw m3 down to the threads in the nuts, that'd be awesome :D
00:44.12Yoshi47``Erik, you just as outrageuous as louipc, im looking for a nice impeller/easy
00:44.16Yoshi47then chrome it!
00:45.20Raliththinks BMW would object to such detailed designs for their stuff being available
00:45.36``Erikhehehe
00:45.41Yoshi47lol
00:45.47``Erikbut when I do rtweight, I want the result to come out real damn close to my car :D
00:46.01``Erikhum, model 'bender' from futurama?
00:46.10Yoshi47``Erik, nah
00:46.13``Erikand then you can raytrace his shiney metal ass?
00:46.17Yoshi47``Erik, lol
00:47.33``Erikhm, fishtank would be too easy, even I can model one of those
00:47.50louipcmodel a CD-ROM disc
00:48.07Ralithmodel a CD-ROM drive.
00:49.01louipcthat would take a while
00:49.09Yoshi47hey is there a way to save the mged bash history
01:00.53Yoshi47well i got a good picture of and impeller, now to design the fins.!
01:02.23``ErikI see the class defining the command history, but I don't see any methods for saving it and don't see the invocation variable :/
01:02.30``Erik<-- doesn't know tcl
01:49.39brlcadRalith: I'd say do whatever the docs say :)
01:50.00brlcadbut yeah, I don't think you should be uploading ogre/qt diffs
01:50.11brlcadthey just want the code you actually *write*
01:50.34Ralithyeah, I remembered that that would be an issue when the shellscript started printing timeouts
01:50.49RalithI actually wrote the cmake stuff but it'll be captured in the diffs of the g3d/ stuff even though it's not present there now
01:52.36brlcadwe had a good chance to get accepted into openusability .. just have to try again next year
02:01.59starseekerbrlcad: does this seem like a reasonable categorization of BRL-CAD's primitives?  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/geometric_primitives.txt
02:31.18``Eriknmg has a brep variant, too, iirc
02:31.24``Erikand I don't see metaballs!!#~!@!~
03:00.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35696 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: Fooling around with vectors - this will need a bit more thought.
03:01.03starseeker``Erik: That's the old nurbs stuff - it will eventually go away in favor of ON_Brep
03:01.42starseekerNMG will still handle what it currently handles, but better to do it as two different setups IMHO
03:02.05starseeker``Erik: good point - what are metaballs?  implicit or explicit?
03:02.59``ErikI was kinda hoping you'd tell me
03:05.50starseekeraaaaand the bounding points are NOT on the plane of the face
03:05.56starseekergroans
03:06.14starseeker``Erik: I'm guessing implicit
03:06.53``Erikwell, I kinda think of it as a contour of a value in space
03:07.05``Eriksorta a 4d notion, I guess
03:07.51``Erikthe first form was modelled after point charges from physics
03:09.05starseekernods
03:10.00starseekermath question - for a collection of coplanar points, will the point xmin, ymin, zmin be coplaner with the other points where the mins are the individual x, y and z mins of all the coplanar points?
03:13.12``ErikI don't think so
03:13.22``Erikbut that'd involve more thinking than I care to commit at the moment
03:13.40louipchmm my whiskey looks like it's infused with the glass
03:13.44louipchttp://louipc.mine.nu/brlcad/shot-glass/shot-glass.png
03:14.30``Eriklouipc, I know you wanna make the american counter to goldschlagger, but seriously, dude, glass shards in whiskey, not a good idea :D
03:15.20louipchahhha
03:15.43louipcI guess I have to mess around with the mater to get it to render properly
03:15.58``Erikhm
03:16.16starseekerhas only one other idea at the moment - take all the verticies, find their center point, find the maximum distance between any of the vertices and the center point, and use that vector + the plane normal to define the UV space for the NURBS surface
03:16.28``Erikthe whiskey should have a refractive coefficient of like 1.30 or something, 1.33 mebbe... (somewhere between water and alcohol), the lgass I think is more like 1.45 or 1.5 depending on the type
03:16.41starseekerthat seems expensive though
03:16.58``Erik1.485-1.755
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03:39.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35697 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: OK, bounding points are not on the plane. Record next idea.
04:34.28Ralithstarseeker: I believe Erik is correct
04:35.44starseekerRalith: yeah, figured :-/
04:35.47starseekerthanks though
04:36.11starseekerRalith: question - can you import anything into Ogre directly?  (dxf, say?
04:36.14Raliththink about the plane described by the triangle ((0 0 0)(2 0 0)(0 1 -1))
04:36.34Ralithnow take a point from the middle of that triangle (thus on the plane)
04:36.56Ralithand set x to 0 and z to -1
04:37.39starseekernods
04:38.03starseekerI think I have an approach, it just feels a bit like overkill
04:38.10Ralithafaik Ogre includes file loaders for nothing but its built-in file format
04:38.18Ralithwhy would that be desirable, anyway?  We want to display stuff from .g
04:38.34starseekerright, but we've got to get our geometry into something that Ogre can handle
04:39.15starseekerfigures we'll have to do (at least internally) a g-ogremesh conversion of some sort...
04:39.19Ralithwriting it to temporary files isn't a good way to do that O.o
04:39.29starseekeroh, agreed
04:39.30RalithI'm reasonably sure that we can just feed Ogre a point cloud.
04:39.33Ralither
04:39.34Ralitha mesh
04:39.42Ralithgenerated manually from the .g
04:39.56starseekerthat would be the internal logic for g-ogremesh :-)
04:40.14Ralithisn't entirely sure how ogre internally represents objects
04:43.48starseekerapparently ManualObject might be helpful...
04:44.21Ralithyeah, that's where I was going to start research
04:44.58Ralithfirst guess being something that'd end up with a class derived from ManualObject for each primitive for mged-style rendering
04:45.25starseekerhmm... http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/geometry/polygonise/
04:45.30Raliththen maybe a generic 'Boolean' ManualObject descendent for when the brep stuff lets us quickly tesselate arbitrary booleans
04:47.17starseekerRalith: any luck on the 3d rotate and translate bugs?
04:47.34starseekercould manually make an Ogre mesh with blender and import for a nice video demo :-)
04:47.57Ralithnot a bad idea.
04:48.11Ralithbeen focusing on trying to fix the input bug but I guess I can put that off
04:48.41starseekernods. I'm wondering if that's tangled up with the multiple OpenGL context stuff
04:48.43RalithI have a fairly good idea why the translate bug is doing that, and I know conceptually what the rotate bug is doing but I'm not yet sure where/how.
04:48.53Ralithdoubt it.
04:49.00Ralithwould be hell if it was
04:49.10starseekerheh :-)
04:49.12Ralitheventually I want to replace all that with a proper Ogre backend for Qt.
04:49.20Ralithjust because I think it'd save so much pain
04:49.24starseekernods
04:49.47Raliththere's a good bit of 'special behavior' for all the various systems Qt's going through to do this, which weren't really meant to be used this way
04:49.56Ralithwhich has to be worked around often awkwardly
04:50.10starseekerwell, if you can nail the rotate and translate bugs I'll do my best to manually convert a model and we can make an Awesome Video :-)
04:50.31Ralithcool, I'll see what I can do :)
04:50.53starseekermutters to himself that he'll get it to play on the Mac by default this time...
04:50.58starseekerOK, sleep
04:51.05Ralithnite
04:51.12Ralithyou'll need to specialize the opengl hacks for Carbon.
04:51.56Ralithor just use X
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05:17.58``Eriksleep is for the weak
05:18.03``Erik*snore*
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11:47.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r35698 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/geometry/BrlcadDb.java:
11:47.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: Added getDbFileName() method.
11:47.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: Added some java.util.logging
11:47.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r35699 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/spacePartition/PreppedDb.java:
11:47.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: Fixed some hosed formatting.
11:47.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: Added some java.util.logging
11:53.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r35700 10/jbrlcad/trunk/ (build.xml test/logging.config):
11:53.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: Added logging.config for tests
11:53.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: Eliminated references to "jra"
11:55.44Yoshi47can you edit shapes vertice level, like in blender, where you can move the vertices around where ever you want?
12:16.23brlcadif there's actually a vertex, you usually can
12:17.56brlcadboolean operations on implicit primitives, however, can cause the addition of new vertices/edges/faces, though that are likewise _implicit_ and cannot be directly manipulated as such
12:22.45brlcadwe're moving more towards a hybrid representation system so that we can also maintain an explicit representation, which allows for direct manipulation, but that's a ways off
12:23.11Yoshi47ah
12:23.43brlcadit gets at the heart of the differences in the way geometry is represented, ours being based on a strongly mathematical basis -- which is done for analysis purposes, guarantees of correctness and topology
12:24.09brlcadsomething which isn't of any concern to a content modeling system
12:25.55Yoshi47nope
12:26.04Yoshi47so i know have my turbine blade
12:26.31Yoshi47which is a region of shapes, can i take that region and clone it around the center axis of the turbine
12:32.36Yoshi47i guess i  can't take a object and rotate it hey?
12:34.21brlcadsure you can
12:34.21Yoshi47nevermind, i did it, oed, dug
12:34.43Yoshi47only 11 more cp and rot, well im off for now, see ya guys later.
12:35.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35701 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: Add ascii art drawing of nmg_brep algorithm idea.
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13:14.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35702 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/librender/camera.c: revert to single threaded mode if pthreads fail for some reason
14:04.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35703 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_lookup.c: Updated db_lookup_by_attr to skip phony entries.
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14:53.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35704 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/human.c:
14:53.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: Added a new function which dumps out all measurements to a textfile, Verbose.txt, for debugging purposes. Automatically
14:53.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: runs for now.
14:57.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35705 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/express/ (25 files):
14:57.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: Twist up how package headers are included. Heimdall has a "resolv.conf" that is
14:57.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: installed and sometimes is grabbed instead of include/express/resolve.h, so pull
14:57.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: the express include directory up a level and refer to headers as, say,
14:57.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: "express/resolve.conf".
15:09.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35706 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/human.c: Formatted verbose output to be more organized, and aligned
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17:34.21h4r1Hey
18:19.55brlcadstarseeker: several missing, but looks mostly good.  would not characterize the non-volumetric as such as it's not particularly meaningful -- half is implicit, sketch is 2D explicit primitive, grip is a non-geometric primitive
18:21.00brlcadthe explicit qualifier is redundant on polygonal/spline surface, and you have a typo there (splice)
18:21.54brlcadebm, hf, and dsp really belong in their own class as volumetric representations
18:22.27brlcadlouipc: neat shot glass!
18:39.32``Erikhm, "bokode"
18:57.58Yoshi47well who's ready for time trials...
18:58.11brlcadhehe
18:58.16brlcadready
18:58.17brlcadset
18:58.18brlcadgo!
18:58.25Yoshi47wait wait wait
18:58.45Yoshi47i have to prep my work space
18:59.08Yoshi47cold water: check,
18:59.13Yoshi47lock door, check
18:59.23Yoshi47tell everyone not to bug me, check
18:59.34Yoshi47migraine go away, nope
18:59.39Yoshi47oh well..
19:01.20Yoshi47ok go 3:00
19:20.14``Erikdone yet, yoshi? :D *duck*
19:22.49yukonbobhello, cadheads
19:23.36brlcadhello yukonbob
19:24.18yukonbob:D
19:24.25yukonbobhow was siggraph?
19:24.29Yoshi47-5 minutes, phone call from work
19:24.37Yoshi47i got the inner ring done.
19:24.54``Erikquit chatting, ya might be able to beat an hour :D
19:25.01brlcadyukonbob: fabulous
19:25.06Yoshi47im closing this
19:25.11yukonbobbrlcad: very nice...
19:25.12brlcadheh
19:25.45yukonbobbrlcad: bring back new ideas/inspirations?
19:26.02brlcadalways
19:26.20yukonbobheh
19:26.29brlcadthe ideas are always in abundance, and helps to keep things in a big picture perspective
19:26.43yukonbobnods
19:26.48yukonbobcool
19:28.09yukonbobwas checking-out the siggraph website when you were there, and noted a future (next year?) event is coming to Vancouver
19:28.33brlcadpossibly, at least that's the current plan for the year after next
19:28.44brlcadthere was some dissention this year, though, that it might not happen
19:29.07yukonbobppl don't want it out of America?
19:29.28brlcadmoreover that it was even a rumor to begin with according to one staffer (but I'm not convinced he was in the know)
19:29.45brlcadin general, no they don't
19:30.17yukonbobsaw news published on a credible-looking website.
19:30.21brlcadit's a very big conference that makes and costs a lot of money .. even when they simply leave Los Angeles, they usually lose money and attendance is down
19:30.24``Erikimagines most attendees are from the US, and most of them don't have passports
19:47.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35707 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/human.c: Added text input for all body measurements, by the file Verbose.txt
19:59.25*** join/#brlcad Yoshi47 (n=jan@d72-39-56-44.home1.cgocable.net)
19:59.32Yoshi47well...
19:59.37Yoshi47guess what
19:59.58``Erikdidn't finish it?
20:00.42brlcaddeleted it again?
20:00.42Yoshi47everything done except the shield
20:00.42Yoshi47lol funny
20:00.42Yoshi47i would be pissed
20:00.42``Erik:D
20:00.42Yoshi47who wants a copy?
20:00.42brlcadhey, Yoshi47 .. why don't you post that up somewhere? :)
20:00.42Yoshi47before i delete it again
20:00.44brlcadhehe
20:00.44``Erikheh
20:01.04Yoshi47i don't know if i want other people to see my messy structure...
20:01.05Yoshi47lol
20:01.12Yoshi47where can i post?
20:01.31``Erikalso; ponder using svn or something instead of rsync. a sorta manual 'undo' capability, co where ya want it, easy semantics :)
20:01.38Yoshi47or should i just finish the shield and the textures first
20:02.09Yoshi47one sec...
20:02.17``Erik(just something to think about *shrug* not saying it's a good way)
20:03.16Yoshi47http://ej.nijenhuis.pixi.me/v/bearing_g.html
20:03.36Yoshi47``Erik, don't worry i won't do that again.
20:03.50Yoshi47someone try and download it and tell me if it works...
20:04.00Yoshi47B complete.c
20:05.04Yoshi47well someone got it... who did it?
20:05.17``Erikjust did
20:05.22Yoshi47nice
20:05.25Yoshi47does it work?
20:05.28brlcadtoo
20:05.33Yoshi47lol
20:06.23Yoshi47i actually added a couple more curved edges too...
20:07.40Yoshi47i almost have my turbine done too... just have to get the center shaft cut out.
20:11.48brlcadso about 30 hours passive down to about an hour active
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20:26.00``Erikhehehe glass bearings :D
20:26.47``Eriklooks awesome in perspective mode
20:33.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35708 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/human.c: Added help on text input/output on the -? command
20:39.27Yoshi47so you having fun with my bearing
20:48.40``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/~erik/glassbearing.png
20:49.36Yoshi47nice
20:49.39Yoshi47little dark...
20:50.54``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/~erik/glassbearing.rt as an example of how to generate...
20:51.09``Erikit's glass with a black background, of course it's dark :D
20:51.19Yoshi47i wouldn't even know how to use rt files yet
20:51.25``Erikit's a shell script
20:51.53``Erikwas generated by using "saveview" in mged, then I tweaked it a bit :)
20:52.38starseekersh glassbearing.rt :-)
20:52.45Yoshi47ah
20:53.03Yoshi47so is whats the diff between rtwizard and rendering in mged?
20:53.15``Erikdifferent ways to invoke rt
20:53.30Yoshi47but same background renderer
20:53.41``Erikfor the most part...
20:54.02``Erikthe edge view in rtwizard actually invokes rtedge instead of rt, then composites the various images
20:54.12Yoshi47oh
20:54.21Yoshi47well who wants a shity impeller?
20:55.58Yoshi47most likely a better way to draw but i don't know everything, and it takes forever to render because of the code used to make, maybe once you see you can offer suggestions for a better way...
20:58.40Yoshi47heres the link for the impeller http://ej.nijenhuis.pixi.me/v/CAD/impeller_g.html
20:58.47Yoshi47louipc, your impeller is done!
20:58.58Yoshi47well if you can call it an impeller
21:08.19``Erikyowza
21:10.20``Erikit renders slow because it has to evaluate just about every primitive in the screen for every ray, btw... imagine every plot (red wireframe of a primitive) has a box around it, if the ray goes through that box, it evaluates the primitive
21:10.34``Erikbut it looks neat
21:17.46brlcadwow, that is slow.. :)
21:17.52brlcadgood optimization test case
21:25.52``Erikruns nice and fast facetized, though O:-)
21:30.47brlcadheh
21:30.50brlcadcheater!
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21:36.23fennfirst rule of computer graphics: glass always looks terrible on a black background
21:42.41``Erik*snrkt* http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=785708
21:45.24Yoshi47brlcad, whos a cheater?
21:45.37``ErikI am, for facetizing it :D
21:45.43Yoshi47oh
21:46.11``Erik(and, yeah, glass on black isn't good, but I forgot to set a background color and didn't want to make a surrounding scene)
21:46.31Yoshi47i don't mind white
21:48.37``Erik-C255/255/255
21:49.27brlcadglass on black can work, you just have to jack up the ambient a bit
21:49.34brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/bearing/bearing.png
21:50.03Yoshi47im just trying to think why you would make a bearing out of glass...
21:50.06``Erikgiving the glass a greenish hue might improve it, too... make it ... glassier
21:50.24``ErikYoshi47: cuz glass stuff looks awesome raytraced? :D
21:50.31brlcadYoshi47: no reason :)
21:50.36brlcador .. why NOT?!
21:50.41brlcadahem
21:51.16Yoshi47it does look cool, green tinge would be better
21:51.18``Erikin the future, everything is made of glass
21:51.22Yoshi47lol
21:51.56brlcadplus it's quick n dirty .. creating lights, adding textures and bump mappings, tweaking shaders.. that's all work :)
21:52.10brlcadlikes the bearing
21:52.29Yoshi47i just have to finish the shield
21:52.38``Erikin a scene with stuff around it and multiple lights, it'd look awesome, I think
21:52.39Yoshi47but at least i have backups now!
21:53.26``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/~erik/glassbearing_white.png
21:53.46Yoshi47ouch
21:53.52``Erikyeah
21:54.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35709 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: Continue crawling forward on nmg->brep
21:55.11Yoshi47so any tips for the impeller or bearing?
21:57.55fennyou should have made it from diamond instead of glass :)
21:58.30fennalso i don't suppose brlcad supports HDR environment maps
22:00.48brlcadnope
22:00.54brlcadpatches welcome ;)
22:04.57brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/bearing/bearing2.png
22:05.35Yoshi47nice
22:06.36Yoshi47i got my other little bearing in 4mm wide and  10mm tall
22:07.10Yoshi47so i have to draw that up too soon, but im not going to do the inside, just the outside cause it has shields on it and im not taking this one apart cause i have to buy these.
22:14.09brlcadwee... http://brlcad.org/tmp/bearing/bearing3.png  :)
22:14.30Yoshi47i love it!
22:14.56Yoshi47just for your info the bearing does have a little mirrow to it rough mirror
22:15.18brlcadthe impeller is turning out fantastic too, but damn is it exercising the boolean evaluator
22:15.20Yoshi47but you need surrondings then i think, that looks really good
22:15.26Yoshi47lol
22:15.45brlcadespecially as glass, of course :)
22:15.51Yoshi47anyway i could of done it easier like a arb8 that can bend!
22:16.04starseekerYoshi47: patience :-)
22:16.24Yoshi47starseeker, im guessing its in the works! time line?
22:16.26brlcadglass is particularly abusive, it's having to query almost the whole model for every primary ray as well as every reflected and refracted interior ray
22:16.44Yoshi47i hope you got a farm at your disposal
22:16.58brlcadnot using it
22:17.02starseekerYoshi47: a bit hard to say - editing is down the road
22:17.13starseekerYou might look at Ayam
22:17.19Yoshi47Ayam?
22:17.30brlcadjust an 8-core churning on it .. is looking very purty
22:17.34starseekerhttp://ayam.sourceforge.net/
22:17.49starseekerthey can export 3dm nurbs, and in theory we can import them
22:18.04starseekernot in practice thus far, but patches welcome :-)
22:18.39Yoshi47umm
22:19.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35710 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp proc-db/csgbrep.cpp): More nmg exploring...
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22:20.50Yoshi47can blender export 3dm nurbs?
22:21.11starseekerto the best of my knowledge Blender's NURBS support is incomplete
22:21.34Yoshi47i think i need more lesson on NURBS
22:21.38brlcadI love it when I do a search for some obscure brep/nurbs topic and the top results is a link to our svn or our irc log
22:21.45brlcaddamnits
22:22.15Yoshi47lol
22:22.18starseekerhehe - we may not lead the field but we lead the google searches :-)
22:22.45Yoshi47i don't like that, well i do , but more support would be nice..
22:22.59brlcadwe apparently lead the field that actually discusses it in the open :)
22:23.14starseekerYoshi47: it's a Very Hard Problem
22:23.17Yoshi47brlcad, really, what does blender use then for their curves?
22:23.48brlcadYoshi47: what do you mean?  they maintain their own geometry format internally
22:24.15Yoshi47oh, well im reading more on NURBS right now to get more of an idea of the whole thing.
22:24.23Yoshi47sorry for my incompetence
22:24.30brlcadNURBS is a superset
22:26.26starseekerbrlcad: I hate to ask this, I think I've done so before - when creating a vector with a starting point at x1, y1, z1 and end point at x2, y2, z2 do I create a vector to P1 and a vector to P2 and add them?
22:28.37brlcader, depends how you're using that vector
22:29.19Yoshi47brlcad, how the rendering coming on that impeller
22:29.42starseekerI have a normal from plane_t, and a vector in space from P1 to P2 that I want to cross with that normal
22:30.09starseekeror more specifically, I want to center both the normal and the vector in the plane on a particular point
22:30.21starseekerthen cross them
22:30.22brlcadYoshi47: oh it's really going to take a while :)  i should have started a distributed render at the quality level I picked
22:30.41Yoshi47brlcad, nice
22:31.41Yoshi47so what state is nurbs at? somewhat usable, in specing?
22:38.32brlcadmostly usable on import
22:38.37brlcadyou can't create or edit them directly
22:39.24Yoshi47umm,
22:39.43Yoshi47i think the math for that is pretty hard!'
22:44.58``Erikok, barbie O.o
22:45.49starseeker``Erik: last time I checked, barbie can't cad model ;-)
22:45.54starseekermath or no
22:45.59``Erikbut barbie says "math is hard" :D *duck*
22:46.04``Erikreads backlog, just got home
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090826

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090826

00:11.58``Erikssshhhhh
00:19.20starseekerNNooooooo.  Jeez SCO, DIE already
00:22.42starseekerwonders who told them dead horse beating was an Olympic sport...
00:29.28``Erikwasn't that yesterday? or was that this morning
00:49.00Yoshi47brlcad, how the rendering coming on that impeller
00:49.23Yoshi47or is it going to take all night
00:49.34``ErikI imagine he's not at his 'puter
00:49.44Yoshi47whys that
00:50.10yukonbobfacepalms
00:51.05starseekerhe's gone home
00:52.21Yoshi47oh
01:47.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35711 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: OK, might actually be generating the right surface corner points now.
02:03.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r35712 10/jbrlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs):
02:03.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: Ray, Hit, and Partition are now Externalizable.
02:03.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: Added a test for Hit.
02:37.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35713 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: Start to rough out (and I stress the rough part) the remainder of the logic for nmg->brep
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03:41.48talciteahh finally figured out how to use Koji. We're going to get a ppc and SPARC build if all goes well! =D
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07:37.37talcitewell, the builds on ppc, ppc64, i386, x86_64
07:38.41*** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
07:40.47talciteare working*
07:40.56talcite=S I should probably sleep now. I'm not making sense anymore
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12:03.31starseekerbrlcad: would volumetric representations be considered explicit primitives?
12:19.45Yoshi47is it always this quiet when im not talking...
12:22.16Axman6yes
12:34.03Yoshi47lol
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12:58.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r35714 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (surfaceintersect.cpp surfaceintersect.h): Added function CurveCurveIntersect, which replaces the ON_Curve::IntersectCurve function since it isn't actually implemented.
13:07.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Jdoliner 07http://brlcad.org * r1607 10/wiki/User:Jdoliner:
13:07.29brlcadstarseeker: I've always thought of them as implicit/explicit hybrids
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13:09.27brlcadexplicit regular data but that implies some given volume -- the geometry itself is implicit but it's distinct enough that the literature generally considers it a separate case altogether
13:09.39brlcadYoshi47: it comes in waves
13:09.49Yoshi47ah
13:09.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35715 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/human.c: Various changes to reflect new verbose setting
13:10.03Yoshi47hows the rendering coming
13:10.21brlcadnon-stop chatter for days, then really quiet, then tons of non-stop commit messges, etc :)
13:10.40brlcadoh, I'm sure it's finished .. but I'm not at that machine for another hour or so
13:11.07brlcadi'm sure it's done, it should have finished after about an hour
13:12.36brlcadjdoliner: awesome :)
13:13.15brlcadexcept for the overlap problem..
13:14.14jdolineryeah
13:14.34jdolinerI'm not sure if I should spend time to do that now
13:14.38jdolineror come back to it a bit later
13:26.10``Erikhm, C or tcl, C or tcl
13:26.45Yoshi47C?
13:27.30``Erikmight have to write the algo in psuedocode before deciding, unless he can sucker brlcad into doing it "in a couple lines of tcl" :D
13:31.38Axman6Ada!
13:38.05``Erik"The GOTO is like a chainsaw. yes, some folks can actually make good things, and even make really nice carvings with a chainsaw. most just make a big fucking mess."
13:51.13mafmlolcode ftw
13:53.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35716 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: More nmg->brep logic, still not functional...
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14:33.15Yoshi47Question: why do i have to reset my color scheme everytime i open mged? why does it save this preference? in the DB for the file your editing or globaly like /home/josh/.brlcad/config?
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15:10.18``Erik~/.mgedrc
15:11.14Yoshi47umm
15:11.23indianlarryunder GUI File->Create/Update .mgedrc
15:11.46brlcad``Erik: which algo?
15:11.51Yoshi47indianlarry, thanks
15:11.58indianlarryyou bet
15:12.00brlcadC ftw ;)
15:13.22``Erikwanna recreate the tree, with name mangling. when I see a region bit, I want to facetize into mangle;s/$/.bot/ and add that to the mangled region, with all mater and attr shtuff duped
15:14.46``Erikrecfacetize 's/$/_f/' all.g   -> all.g_r { tor.r_f { tor.r_f.bot } + cone.r_f { cone.r_f.bot } }
15:14.51``Erik'r sumfin
15:15.52``Erikmy current approach is destructive... facetize all and some external prep to kill/mv the bots in under the existing regions
15:16.56``Erik(and I already feel like I've thought too much, this is a yak shaving exercize to support something else)
15:17.02``Erik:D
15:17.26brlcadwhat's the _f and _r above the region level mean?
15:17.53``Erik_f to denote facetized
15:18.29``ErikI want to create a second toplevel tree that mirrors the original except all regions contain exactly one bot
15:18.47``Erikthe name mangling is arbitrary
15:19.09mafmhow's gsoc, did students pass?
15:19.48``ErikI think we need to wait for wrapup to say, mafm?
15:20.48mafmaren't evaluations finished yet?
15:21.07``Erikthey're all submitted now, but I think there's magic that has to happen on googles end
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15:53.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35717 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: Start checking validity of components.
16:00.25brlcadstarseeker: jdoliner: did either of you figure out if there's a conversion to go from ON_Mesh to ON_Brep ?
16:01.27brlcadif there is, nmgs may translate nearly 1-1 with an ON_Mesh
16:06.53mafmoh, right
16:09.17Yoshi47umm whats the easiest way to make "608Z" in brlcad so i can groove that into the shield
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16:29.31FAMULUShello!
16:29.55Yoshi47hi
16:29.58FAMULUSI've produced this beautiful part in BRL CAD
16:30.14FAMULUSbut having difficult getting it made from STL
16:30.19FAMULUSoverlapping trianges
16:30.20FAMULUShttp://prometheusfusionperfection.com/2009/08/21/overlapping-triangles-in-stl/
16:30.40FAMULUSlooking for direction
16:30.41FAMULUShttp://prometheusfusionperfection.com/2009/08/23/new-stl-for-superconducting-magrid/
16:32.06FAMULUSeven at higher resolution is still has overlapping triangles
16:33.17Yoshi47sorry i don't have enough knowledge to help you
16:33.33louipcthat's cool. what does it do?
16:34.09brlcadhi FAMULUS
16:34.12FAMULUShi
16:34.14louipchmm bussard reactor
16:34.26FAMULUSlouipc: this will be the core of a nuclear fusion reactor
16:34.27brlcadYoshi47: the easiest way is probably an EBM
16:34.31brlcadextruded bitmap
16:34.33louipcOH JEEZ
16:34.42louipcwe have fusion technology now?
16:34.58FAMULUSlouipc: below breakeven yes
16:35.07louipcaw
16:35.12Yoshi47brlcad, thats what i figured, guess i got to learn that process.
16:35.34brlcadget out your favorite image editor, make a 1-bit image with 608Z in it to your liking, save as png, convert to bw with png-bw, create an ebm using that bw image
16:35.46brlcad'in' command will prompt you
16:35.53brlcadi believe there is an ebm tutorial on the wiki
16:36.48FAMULUSbrlcad: looking into it
16:36.59FAMULUSbrlcad: what's the deal with g-stl anyway
16:37.43Yoshi47brlcad, thanks
16:37.51brlcadother than it being an NP-hard problem? :)
16:38.10FAMULUSbrlcad: oh, it's like that
16:39.01louipciges conversion isn't any better eh?
16:39.47brlcadFAMULUS: what mike suggested was what I was thinking as well
16:40.00brlcadthe fact that they are overlapping is pretty surprising though
16:40.10brlcaddoes your model validate overlap-wise?
16:40.22brlcad(rtcheck/gqa)
16:40.35brlcadif it doesn't, it's a modeling error and you should fix that first
16:40.39FAMULUSbrlcad: seeing I don't know what that means exactly, probably not
16:40.57brlcadthere are tools/commands to check whether your model has overlaps
16:41.12brlcadto perform a valid export with g-stl, there should be no overlaps
16:41.20brlcad*before* the tessellation even begins
16:41.38FAMULUSbrlcad: I see, let me start here
16:41.43brlcadyou can get a quick idea by just running "rtcheck"
16:41.45brlcadin mged
16:41.49FAMULUSok
16:42.21brlcadthe better way is via the gqa command or g_qa command-line tool, but that'll require a little setup first
16:42.55brlcadif rtcheck reports no overlaps, try refining the grid (e.g., rtcheck -s2000)
16:43.02FAMULUS_dirbuild(chassis) failure
16:45.56FAMULUShe process has forked and you cannot use this CoreFoundation functionality safely. You MUST exec().
16:45.56FAMULUSBreak on __THE_PROCESS_HAS_FORKED_AND_YOU_CANNOT_USE_THIS_COREFOUNDATION_FUNCTIONALITY___YOU_MUST_EXEC__() to debug.
16:46.20FAMULUShmm, ive seen this before
16:46.23brlcadyeah, that's a known 10.5 issue
16:46.29brlcadfixed for most things, but not others
16:46.51FAMULUSI think to get around this I have to issue command from terminal
16:49.08brlcadyeah, that'll work
16:49.23brlcadrtcheck your.g someobject
16:49.35FAMULUShmm, not this time
16:49.37FAMULUSmged -c decawell.g rtcheck torus1
16:49.47FAMULUSsame error
16:49.54FAMULUSbummer
16:49.57brlcadright, don't run mged
16:50.12brlcadit's one of the other 399 commands
16:50.21brlcadrtcheck decawell.g torus1
16:50.36brlcadif torus1 is a primitive, there will be no overlaps
16:50.45brlcadoverlaps have to do with defined region objects
16:50.59FAMULUSright, but thats a sanity check
16:51.09FAMULUSjust trying to get the command to work
16:51.36FAMULUSI'm on BRL-CAD Release 7.12.2
16:51.46brlcadthat's probably why you get the FORKED error
16:52.09FAMULUSok, I'll upgrade to 7.12.6
16:52.13brlcad"probably" because I don't recall specifically testing rtcheck, but a bunch were quelled
16:52.23brlcadyou'll want 7.14.8
16:52.29FAMULUSoh
16:52.31FAMULUSthanks
16:52.57FAMULUSgood to see BRL under active development
16:53.11brlcador better, latest svn and just compile it ;)
16:53.19brlcadyou're on a mac, so you have everything you need
16:53.34brlcad~cadsvn
16:53.35ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
16:53.58FAMULUSbrlcad: ok, I'll try.
16:54.15brlcadcd brlcad && sh autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-all --enable-optimized --prefix=/usr/brlcad/dev-7.14.9 && make && sudo make install
16:54.21brlcadthat should do it
16:54.27FAMULUSbrlcad: trying....
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16:55.13brlcadYoshi47: you find the ebm overview?
16:55.27Yoshi47havebn't had time users nagging
16:55.40brlcadokay, it's here: http://brlcad.org/wiki/EBM
16:55.45Yoshi47ok thanks
16:56.22brlcadyou'll want something bigger than 350x35 so there are minimized jaggies
17:00.17FAMULUSbrlcad: what's a good example of overlap in the context of BRL CAD
17:00.42brlcadwhat do you mean?
17:01.14brlcadoverlap means you've defined two objects such that they're occupying the same space
17:01.54FAMULUSbrlcad: hmm, but that's ok when they are u together
17:02.13brlcadtwo hammers criss-crossed would be an overlap on the middle region where they cross
17:02.38FAMULUSbut if you combined the 2 hammers into 1 comb object you would be ok
17:02.50brlcadand that would be because I defined the hammer, as an example, as having two regions -- one for the steel head and one region for the wooden handle
17:03.12brlcadcreating a region is the way that you denote an object physically occupies space
17:03.33brlcadthe difference between the shape of a hammer handle and an actual wooden hammer handle
17:03.51FAMULUSright
17:03.56brlcadand NO you would not be okay if you combined the 2 hammers into 1 comb object
17:04.03brlcadthat's exactly the problem
17:04.07FAMULUSah
17:04.08FAMULUScomb chassis u solid.c - negative_form.c
17:04.20FAMULUSI'm using only comb
17:04.32brlcadnow if you combined the shape of the two handles together and unioned them together *before* making a region .. you'd be okay
17:05.09brlcadhave you created any "regions"
17:05.21FAMULUSbrlcad: funny I stopped using regions because that was breaking STL export
17:05.43FAMULUShttp://prometheusfusionperfection.com/2009/05/30/brl-cad-stl-progress/
17:05.51brlcada region is one "object" and the stl file format only supports one object
17:05.59brlcadso if you have multiple regions, you have multiple stl files or a problem
17:06.11FAMULUSok
17:06.30brlcadyou could combine it all together and make that combined thing be a region
17:06.46FAMULUSok
17:08.54FAMULUSchecking docs
17:14.58``Erik*burp*
17:24.20FAMULUSbrlcad: we'll I just successfully exported to STL with a region as the last object standing
17:33.01FAMULUSbrlcad: so you can make a region out of a compination, and make a combination out of a region?
17:49.36``Erikyes
17:49.50``Erika region is actually just a combination with a flag set
17:50.47``Erikabove the region level, things like "assembly" make it harder to shoot yourself in the foot, though
17:52.51FAMULUS``Erik: is there a difference between a region made up of combinations, and a region made up of regions
17:54.34``Erikit... depends, and having a region somewhere  inside of a region kinda breaks the notion... (a region refers to a single physical homogenous material thing, something that exists irl)
17:55.49``Erikmost things will walk down the tree and once they see the region bit, assume everything below is just 'the shape', so region information below the first is ignored
17:55.50``Erik(I think)
18:02.51starseekerbrlcad: I don't see any ON_Mesh to ON_Brep tools
18:03.08starseekerwould have been surprised given Rhino is a nurbs modeler :-)
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18:16.08brlcadstarseeker: could be something as simple as a copy constructor
18:16.37brlcadi'd actually be surprised if they don't support it within rhino
18:16.49brlcadeasily one of the things they could have removed though
18:19.54starseekerfeels like he is getting close
18:20.04starseekerfamous last words, of course...
18:21.20Yoshi47who wants a bearing with a shield? although i can't figure out why my numbers don't render nicely...
18:23.24``Erikhm, my new bsd machine swings in just shy of 8k vgr's
18:24.18``ErikI'm sure my crusty old mac still trounces that :/ *waits*
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18:28.02``Erikoh yeah, the bsd machine gets 7946, the mac gets 22733
18:28.26``Eriktoo bad the mach shandler crud makes the unix tools soooo ssssllllooooowwwwww, can compile way faster on the bsd box
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18:35.36Yoshi47http://ej.nijenhuis.pixi.me/v/CAD/bearing_g.html here the finished bearing for now, unless i need to make changes, like the 608Z
18:49.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 0387.206.145.226 07http://brlcad.org * r1608 10/wiki/User:526_buy_viagra: /* */
18:49.39brlcadFAMULUS: what erik said is spot on
18:49.52brlcada region in a region is a modeling error unless it's a region subtracted from a region
18:50.19brlcadabove the region level, and you have what we call "groups" and others call assemblies
18:50.35brlcadat the region level, that's effectively a 'part'
18:50.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 0387.206.145.226 07http://brlcad.org * r1609 10/wiki/User:526_buy_viagra: /* */
18:50.45brlcadbelow the region level is just a shape
18:51.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 0387.206.145.226 07http://brlcad.org * r1610 10/wiki/User:526_buy_viagra: /* */
18:52.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:87.206.145.226]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
18:56.06CIA-28BRL-CAD: 0383.24.64.144 07http://brlcad.org * r1611 10/wiki/User:526_buy_viagra: fix
19:02.38FAMULUSbrlcad: so far it seems to be working. maybe my problem was originally I had regions in regions
19:04.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35718 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: Checkpoint nmg_brep.cpp work.
19:40.16``Eriklaptop weighs in at 6097 vgr's
19:48.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35719 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bot/bot.c: fix type in casting
19:53.53Ralith``Erik: machs handler?
19:58.07brlcadcool, nice to hear things work right when you feed it valid geometry
19:58.45brlcad``Erik: what is that?
19:58.56brlcadslightly faster than this old MBP
19:59.22brlcadhere's yoshi's impeller render.. amazing.  http://brlcad.org/tmp/impeller.png
20:01.44``Erikralith: every system call on osX goes through the mach event handler, shandler()
20:02.06Ralithseems odd
20:02.23Ralithmight make it really easy to implement a geordi though
20:02.27Ralithbrlcad: ooh, nice!
20:02.36brlcadlaforge?
20:02.46Ralithbrlcad: geordi of ##c++
20:03.24RalithC++ compiler IRC bot
20:03.24``Erikwow, look at all that aliasing O.o *duck*
20:03.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35720 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (19 files in 19 dirs): update info for "make depends"
20:03.26louipcsweet render
20:03.33brlcadthat was H15 J3 .. but you have to downsample to get rid of all aliasing properly
20:03.56Ralithit has to intercept all system calls from the compiler and executable to be able to function safely
20:04.13Ralithbrlcad: might be a bit easy to actually tell what's going on if it wasn't glass though >_>
20:04.18``Erikhuh, the blades on the other side of it look like they have some pretty heavy aliasing vs the background
20:04.26``Erik*shrug*
20:04.57brlcadyeah, edge pixels are accented because they don't blend the background like interior ones
20:05.25brlcadprobably should, dunno where that bit of code is
20:06.10Ralithhow long has yoshi been studying mged?
20:06.11``Erikooh, I bet it's "miss" short-circuiting instead of passing back the background color
20:06.57``Erikso a black half or arb8 would get good blending
20:07.24brlcadRalith: that was his third day iirc
20:07.40Raliththat's pretty impressive
20:07.52brlcaddid one model in three days, that model in a couple hours, redid the model that took him three days in an hour after he accidentally deleted it :)
20:07.56Ralithshall keep this handy to wave at people who complain about accessibility
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20:13.08brlcadYoshi47: http://brlcad.org/tmp/impeller.png
20:13.20brlcadi'll see if i can get a render later in metal :)
20:13.26brlcadwhich reminds me..
20:16.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35721 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: how about adding a shiny metal shader so one doesn't have to make up the values every time.
20:16.23RalithYoshi47: if you feel like it, I'd be pretty interested to read a walkthrough of how you modeled that.
20:16.43Ralithobserves that a variety of modeling walkthroughs might be a good way to introduce new users to mged
20:16.58louipcit doesn't look so nice in mged
20:17.04louipcit's just a mess-o-lines
20:17.57louipcit'd be great to get a wireframe of the actual part edges
20:18.05louipcRalith: yeah for sure
20:20.17brlcadlouipc: yeah, were talking about that yesterday
20:20.31brlcadthe problem is that there aren't "actual part edges" when you model with implicits and CSG
20:21.42brlcadas we become a fully hybrid representation system, we'll be able to derive/evaluate those edges .. that requires the NURBS work being complete (which is probably about 50% now after two years)
20:23.20``Eriklouipc: facetize :D
20:23.55``Erikcribbing povrays huge honkin' library of .inc files might be useful for the 'shiney metal shader' notion
20:26.35CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35722 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: well, at least that's a different nmg->brep invalidity error...
20:26.56louipchmm true
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21:00.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35723 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/human.c:
21:00.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: Made the make-army command generate an army with variance in height.
21:00.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: Heights from 56 inches to 66 inches currently. Automatic with the -N# command.
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22:07.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35724 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/human.c: More tweaks to random army stuff.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090827

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090827

02:16.10Yoshi47<PROTECTED>
02:16.22RalithYoshi47: step-by-step description of what you did
02:17.01Ralithbasically, a writeup such that a complete newbie could reproduce your model, with enough explanation that one would learn a lot doing so.
02:17.04Ralithbrb
02:17.40Yoshi47umm, that would take a while to write up and who knows if it did it correct and the best way
02:18.19Yoshi47what would would be an excellent tool for tutorials, the ability to extract the command used to create each object!
02:18.47Ralithit would indeed take some effort, but it would be very interesting to read.
02:19.04Ralithand if it's written up other people can suggest more 'correct' ways :P
02:19.09Raliththat way you get to learn too ^^
02:19.16Yoshi47true
02:19.40Ralithand writing out what you did and why you did it for each step might in and of itself help you.
02:19.51Yoshi47well i think about it and work at that slowy, you are talking about the impeller right? it will take some time i got lots going on, but i'll give it a shot...
02:19.53Ralith'course, lots of work and probably not as helpful as just modeling more random stuff.
02:20.00Ralithyeah, the impeller
02:20.03Yoshi47ok
02:20.23Yoshi47well, i'' try in my spare moments, good review for me thats for sure!
02:20.33Ralithno rush; just an idea.
02:20.54Yoshi47Ralith, nope, but a good idea, i'll get her done, need more tutorials.
02:21.21Ralith:)
02:21.41Yoshi47i wish i had a clone...
02:22.29Yoshi47well im of to bed, cya guys later!
02:23.19Yoshi47man that impeller looks nice in glass, i hope brlcad started a chrome render
02:24.06Yoshi47bye
02:24.37Ralithnite!
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03:47.45starseekerhmm - I think I found the perfect starting point for populating a default material objects list :-)  http://www.dlis.dla.mil/PDFs/fiigmat.pdf
03:48.31starseekerwonders if that sucker can be parsed somehow...
04:15.31louipcsure why not?
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12:20.51starseekerwonders how many man hours all of this represents: http://www.dlis.dla.mil/fiigdata/fiigs.htm
12:21.49d-lolol
12:21.54d-loprobably don't want to know.
12:22.04d-lobut here's my favorite: A511W  02/01/2001  JUICE, GRAPE, SACRAMENTAL
12:22.50starseekerLOL
12:29.45louipcHAHHA
12:36.20Yoshi47starseeker, whats that web page for?
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12:43.44``Erikheh
12:44.27``Eriklooks like item #'s and descriptions for military shipping&supply logistics crud
12:51.32Yoshi47yeah, i was hoping for g DB of the parts! lol
12:59.52``Erikgrouses at gtk+
13:05.02Yoshi47``Erik, whys that
13:05.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35725 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/human.c: Fixed bug where '-n' command didn't properly rename toplevel combination.
13:10.57Yoshi47well i think its time for this question, how does one go about creating a screw? i there a nice tutorial available?
13:12.31louipcthere are some programs that do it
13:13.44louipcheh bolt...
13:14.17Yoshi47but brl not capable directly? at least no iuntil NURBS done...
13:15.24louipcI think bolt is broken... it froze on me
13:15.49louipcYoshi47: you mean via mged?
13:15.58Yoshi47ya
13:16.00Yoshi47sorry
13:17.02louipcI would assume it's possible if the program could do it
13:18.18``ErikYoshi47: dialog box return code isn't being set, and I'm not sure why
13:19.00Yoshi47umm
13:20.36``Erik(isst uses gtk+ at the moment)
13:21.00louipchrm bolt is tremendously broken for me :/
13:21.05Yoshi47wouldn't know what isst is?
13:21.56``Erikside project that mostly lives in brlcad (as libtie/adrt) with a gui component outside of the main tree... interactive ray tracing, um, the picture of the stryker in our gallery was done using it
13:24.33louipcYoshi47: anyways... the ronja guy made some. I'm not sure how he did them
13:24.36louipchttp://ronja.twibright.com/3d/hardware.php
13:24.43louipcyou may want to ask him
13:25.43``Eriklookhis .g file is on that page
13:27.09louipcdoesn't say much about the method though :/
13:27.19``Erikehhhhh, buttloads of tgc's
13:30.09Yoshi47louipc, or i just download the master.g and then analyze
13:34.11Yoshi47i see how he did it, man thats alot to figure out.
13:35.30``Erikhow accurate do ya want your bolts? :D
13:37.29Yoshi47``Erik, i don't think they have to be that accurate allthough it would be nice, just a question. talking to my peer here and he say that in PRo/e they just create on thread and then revolve it around an axis.
13:37.42Yoshi47is there revolve command?
13:37.44starseekerdid a threading test with pipe once actually - that worked pretty well
13:37.47``Erikyeah, we had a summer student working on that, it's not done
13:38.12Yoshi47i thought there was, umm
13:38.19Yoshi47have to think this one through...
13:38.32``Erikwould probably make a little script with some kinda tor or ell assembly to make a bolt *shrug*
13:38.42Yoshi47maybe have to use hex since most of my bolts will be metric
13:39.08louipcyeah properly shaped threads would be mint
13:39.14``Erik(depending on scale, I might just call 2 rcc's a bolt and move on)
13:39.15d-loCyl + Starseekers Spring command for the threads + 2 arb8's.  BAM!  Bolt.
13:39.28Yoshi47``Erik, ya might just have to for now,
13:39.39``Erikor an rcc and 2 arb8's
13:39.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35726 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: Er, oops - better refer to the actual surface index, not the count...
13:39.47``Erikdepending on the head :)
13:40.02d-loeither way... simple :)
13:40.05Yoshi47some are flat head with hex drive
13:40.23d-loprobably spent more time on the irc channel than it would have taken to whip up a bolt :)
13:40.36Yoshi47not if you don't know how to do it
13:40.59``Erikya know how to make rcc's and arb8's, right? :D (gotta choose your fidelity)
13:41.18Yoshi47wheres this spring command?
13:41.22Yoshi47ya
13:41.50``Erik(also; you can make the bolt 'ghetto', then come back to it later when ya know more or have time to commit to it)
13:42.21d-lojust make each arb8 into a trapezoid and then glue the long faces together to make the 6 sided bolt head.  Glue in the rcc to the bottom and subtract whatever you need to out of the head (Allen, Flat, Philips, Star, etc)
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13:42.59``Erikcombinations refer to names, not instances, so you can have a bolt used in thousands of combinations, make your improved bolt, kill the old bolt and move the new one in place  and it automatically appears everywhere
13:43.11``Erikso, y'know, ain't no use sweating it just yet :D
13:43.18Yoshi47true
13:43.52Yoshi47but it is a good lesson, sinc ei also need to make a acme screw, or ball screw haven't decided yet
13:44.55louipcI don't think acme is possible
13:45.25Yoshi47should be not any more complicated then a screw
13:45.39Yoshi47maybe im mistaken
13:45.57Yoshi47this spring comand that d-lo is taking about should be able to do that
13:46.30Yoshi47which brings up the question that got lost, where is this spring command?
13:47.37louipchmm not sure
13:48.04louipcI don't think you can define the shape of the spring though..
13:48.18louipcwell in terms of the spring wire itself
13:49.18Yoshi47hmm
13:51.42Yoshi47did the army use another cad program back in the 70s to draw screws? how did they do it?
13:53.24louipcoh right it's renamed to coil
13:54.11louipcheh they probably didn't
13:54.25louipcat least with brl-cad :P
13:55.17Yoshi47umm
13:57.11Yoshi47that renders nicely, no can we specify more options, time to look at the docs...
14:04.35Yoshi47starseeker, you here?
14:15.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35727 10/brlcad/trunk/src/external/ProEngineer/proe-brl.c: Update to always create a Proe_Name attribute for each BRL-CAD object created (except for top).
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14:22.01brlcadhm, that is an interesting idea about storing the actual command history involved in manipulating an object
14:22.25louipcautocad does that actually
14:22.37brlcadarguably something that could be managed through libged, have to think about that some
14:23.11louipcunlimited undo :D
14:26.25brlcadrevolve is finished enough for that use, ray-tracing certainly works -- but don't think tessellation was implemented yet (meaning you couldn't export it to stl)
14:27.59brlcadYoshi47: in the 70's most everything was done by hand on paper
14:28.23Yoshi47oh so basically the army just didn't do screws in brlcad
14:28.40brlcadlouipc: not so much for undo purposes, but to be able to reconstruct or step through the construction history
14:28.54brlcadbut yeah, you could then undo
14:29.14brlcadYoshi47: brl-cad started circa 1979, first "release" in 1984
14:29.35brlcadyou're talking about very early days of computing and computer graphics
14:29.45brlcadthere were no cad systems yet
14:30.14Yoshi47ah miss read the gallery picutre of Mike Muuss
14:30.17brlcadthe "computers" of the day had very limited input and display capabilities
14:30.35Yoshi47so revolve is brl-cad command or mged
14:31.18Yoshi47or not even released yet?
14:32.12brlcadone of the first uses for brl-cad was to visualize what eventually became the M1 tank, mike was basically challenged that it wasn't possible, he showed them in a couple days that it was
14:32.34brlcadthat was actually the *first* time anyone had ever seen the entire vehicle "put together"
14:32.48Yoshi47cool
14:32.49brlcadgenerals flew in from the pentagon to see it
14:33.10brlcadrevolve is a primitive, like extrude
14:33.24brlcadtakes a sketch
14:33.36brlcadand a rotation angle
14:33.58Yoshi47any docs on it? or is that it?
14:34.17brlcadso you could fairly easily contour a threading in 2d, import as a sketch, then revolve that around just like in proe
14:34.40Yoshi47cool
14:34.48brlcaddepending on what you need it for, it's not going to be too useful to you if you need to export the model
14:34.51Yoshi47i think i need to learn more about sketches
14:35.01brlcadbecause it can't be tessellated yet (turned into polygons)
14:35.02Yoshi47brlcad, don't need to export
14:36.00brlcadthis is the only docs really, dev docs http://brlcad.org/wiki/Revolve_Primitive
14:37.59brlcadbest start is to probably create a sketch, then extrude it .. make sure you understand that process -- revolving then is not really any different than extruding
14:38.26brlcadcreating/importing a scetch is the more painful part as that's a 2d centric modeling approach, which is not our forte
14:38.33brlcadand generally discouraged..
14:38.50brlcadstarseeker's coil tool is a better approach
14:39.25brlcadthat will give you a whole range of threading types as a subtraction primitive
14:39.58Yoshi47i need more docs on coil
14:40.34brlcadmore docs?
14:40.34brlcadit has a manual page
14:40.34Yoshi47umm i tried
14:40.42Yoshi47didn't work, i'll try again
14:40.46brlcadand the developer for it sits in here, better than docs ;)
14:40.56Yoshi47ya he not answering
14:41.05brlcadpatience ;)
14:41.10Yoshi47yep
14:42.00Yoshi47so where is the best place to learn about sketches?
14:48.32brlcadlike i said, that part is thin (in all respects) because it's not our way ..
14:48.42brlcadthere are docs somewhere, but I don't really remember where
14:49.13brlcadjust because that method isn't a priority/interest/concern, at all .. we mostly deal with sketch objects on import, like from a dxf
14:49.21brlcadthere is a sketch editor
14:49.39brlcadif you create a sketch through the gui, and edit that sketch, you'll be in the sketch editor
14:50.09brlcadhorrible interface, but it gives you basic edit controls for adding line segments, arcs, circles, whatever to your sketch
14:50.55brlcadthere are docs that teach one how to do what the coil does manually in Vol III, advanced techniques
14:51.17brlcadthere is a coil antenna there that teaches how to use the pipe primitive that is relevant
14:51.59brlcadthe pipe primitive is pretty powerful in itself, another example of a semisteep learning curve but with a high(er) payoff compared to other cad systems
14:53.31Yoshi47cool, i'll take a look at those today then, thanks
14:55.58Yoshi47do you have a link to Vol III, advanced techniques
14:56.02Yoshi47can't seem to find it
15:06.56brlcadvol II is the massive mged tutorial series
15:07.04brlcadvol III is at the same place
15:07.21brlcadshould go down that list and familiarize, they're good docs ;)
15:09.15Yoshi47oh its called Principles of Effective Modeling
15:17.52brlcadyeah, sorry, that's our internal name for it
15:18.20brlcadwell, not "internal" .. it was the third "book" when we printed them :)
15:20.19Yoshi47oh,
15:32.12louipcstarseeker: is there a reason doc/book/VolumeIV.xml is separate from doc/docbook/books
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16:26.26Yoshi47when you concat 2 dbs together if there is the same names in both, how does that work?
16:32.40louipcThe man page says it will add computer generated prefixes
16:33.14louipcbut won't rename members of combinations...
16:37.53Yoshi47umm so then any combs will not work..
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17:54.17``Erikrevolve works now?
17:54.56``Erik*readreadread*
17:58.13brlcadyeah, it works
17:58.24``Eriksans _tess
17:58.55``Erikmarching cubes is gonna shake things up a bit, methinks
17:59.00brlcadyeah, and maybe a few other callbacks that would be nice to have, but it is enough to read/write them from the db, basic plot, and raytracing works
17:59.53brlcaddbconcat has options
18:02.10brlcadlooks like the manual page is a little out of date
18:46.54``Erikoi
18:52.09brlcadvey
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19:05.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35728 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: minor typo, missing >
19:13.54CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35729 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/human.c: Fixed a problem when reading in a Verbose.txt file and not properly updating some variables.
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20:29.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35730 10/isst/trunk/src/ (gui.c net_worker.c): initial .g loader dialog box
20:43.27``ErikI need a test mutant O.o
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21:19.18``Erikaww, no one wants to be a guinnea pig?
21:21.00louipcwhat for?
21:21.55``Erikisst, to see if it works on various other machines
21:22.20louipcsure
21:23.00``Erikmake sure your BRL-CAD is recent, then grab https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/isst/trunk and give it a while? :D
21:23.44louipcSVN rev 35355 ok?
21:24.05CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35731 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: hide unwired modes
21:24.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35732 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/human.c: Various tweaks, and added comments
21:24.57``Erikhm, cut won't work right
21:25.29``Eriktho you can update, go into src/adrt and do "make install" there, should work without having to rebuild ALL of BRL-CAD
21:30.51louipchmm
21:32.07louipcI don't have a build or anything but I do have headers installed
21:32.56louipcselective building doesn't seem to work.
21:32.58``Erikit should compile and run, it's just the "cut" render method won't be right
21:33.02louipclibtool: link: cannot find the library `../../src/libbu/libbu.la' or unhandled argument `../../src/libbu/libbu.la'
21:33.19louipcthat's when making adrt
21:33.23``Erikoh, heh, I assumed you still had build stuff
21:33.37``Erikyou can do "make depends install-depends" in adrt and it should "do the right thing"
21:34.04louipcyar!
21:35.32louipcI guess I should leave it around
21:35.52louipcit will cut down on build time :D
21:36.08``Erik*shrug* if you're not doing development with it or don't want on the bleeding edge, it's not terribly important :)
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21:50.07``Erikheadin' home, bbi1h O.o
22:36.56``Erikhome at last
22:37.16louipchaving trouble pointing to the headers heh
22:37.21louipchttp://louipc.mine.nu/brlcad/isst-build.log
22:37.26louipcwelcome back :D
22:39.59``Erikyou don't have /usr/brlcad/include/brlcad ?
22:40.15louipcno, it's in opt instead
22:41.00``Erikah, try ./configure CPPFLAGS="-I/opt/brlcad/include -I/opt/brlcad/include/brlcad" LDFLAGS=-L/opt/brlcad/lib
22:43.54louipcdo I still need --with-adrt then?
22:44.15``Erikhrm?
22:44.56``Erikpossibly, I need to redo that bit of the configure file
22:45.17louipchmm seems to work
22:45.41louipc/home/louipc/devel/isst/src/gui.c:813: undefined reference to `strnstr'
22:45.49louipcnot in Linux?
22:46.39``Erikstrange, doesn't come up when you man it? (it's just a bound limited version of strstr(3))
22:46.54louipcnope
22:47.01louipcstrstr is available
22:47.08louipcand strcasestr
22:47.10``Erikit's ISO C90 O.o
22:47.14louipco.O
22:47.26``Erikerm, mebbe they just globbed extra crap into this manpage
22:47.42louipcdunno, but it's not in gnu
22:48.12louipcwell on my system... hah
22:48.13``Erikhm, guess not, seeing bug reports of linux being the odd one out for that function
22:48.24louipckewl
22:54.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35733 10/isst/trunk/ (configure.ac src/gui.c): cope with missing strnstr (linux lacks it)
22:55.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35734 10/isst/trunk/ (Makefile.am TODO): add a TODO list
22:56.04louipchmm why not use strstr throughout?
22:56.37``Erikbuffer overflow vulnerability
23:03.53starseekerwoo hoo!
23:03.56starseekerhas house
23:04.02louipcwhoa I got a big window
23:04.11louipcstarseeker: nice congrats
23:04.15``Erikw00t, grats, starseeker
23:04.21starseekerthanks :-)
23:04.39``Eriklouipc: try opening '/path/to/ktank.g' with the region 'tank'
23:05.31louipcsweet
23:06.04``Erikleft click zooms in and out, middle click pans, right click rotates
23:08.01louipchmm doesn't perform too well
23:08.17louipckicks up cpu usage 100% if I do anything
23:08.22``Erikyes
23:08.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35735 10/isst/trunk/ (TODO configure.ac src/Makefile.am): Cope with BRL-CAD being installed somewhere other than /usr/brlcad via a --with-brlcad=/path/to/brlcad flag.
23:08.25``Erikwhat kinda framerate?
23:08.29``Erikand what kinda mcahine?
23:08.45``Erik(every update to the display is a raytraced scene...)
23:08.47louipcPIII 866MHz
23:09.09louipchow do I see the framerate?
23:09.14``Erikahhh, yeah, not too many ponies to push it :)
23:09.14louipcoh I see
23:09.18``Erikshould be printing to console
23:10.15louipc.4 FPS? lol
23:10.21``Erikheh, not bad at all
23:10.37``Erikcompare it to the time rt takes to render :D
23:10.37louipcthat sounds horrible
23:10.46``Erik(that's zomfg raytraced, not opengl or anything)
23:10.51louipcok sure
23:10.57louipcoh no hardware accel eh?
23:11.00``Erikright
23:12.25louipcooh got up to .59 FPS
23:13.26louipcls
23:13.29louipcerp
23:13.58``Erik(that model is actually one of the worst performing ones due to huge flat surfaces, the KD-tree doesn't build nice... but it converts very fast)
23:15.02louipcoh it converts to BOTS
23:15.28``Erikyeah
23:15.30louipcwhy would large flat surfaces be bad for that? o.O
23:15.49louipctwo triangles could make a football field :P
23:15.50``Erikcan't subdivide the scene very efficiently, and triangles get dup'd a lot
23:16.09``Erikum, if you turn on the 'depth' render mode, it paints a visualization of the kd tree
23:17.56louipcwait a sec. what's this mention of mysql? hahah
23:18.24``Erikum, that's been removed
23:18.50``Erikit used to require specially prepared geometry that was saved in a MySQL database, now it load .g straight
23:19.28louipcah cool
23:19.43louipcwas it faster or something?
23:24.02``Erikhrm? whihc, the mysql approach? it allowed a centralized place to load geometry, and the conversion results were saved
23:24.58louipcah. I guess if that geometry server gets going, it'll solve that problem
23:24.58``Erikwhen I make it networked again, it'll transmit geometry from the client (so the compute nodes don't need any special access), and I plan on having a fast path through .g files that are set up right (each region contains exactly 1 bot/nmg)
23:25.08``Erikor use the geometry server if that comes soon 'nuff :D
23:25.14louipcnice
23:26.45``Erikaight, cool, it runs on linux now (and someone out in the 'real world' has run it, w00t)
23:26.55louipchighfive
23:27.58louipcwhat happened to Maleoran? didn't he have a real-time raytracer?
23:28.10louipcoh yeah he was running it on an 8-core machine though
23:29.36``Erikyeah, this one runs multi-million triangle models at ~30fps on my 8 core mac
23:29.59louipc:O
23:30.02``Erikwhat you just ran was the impetus that got mal started on writing one
23:30.10louipcoh haha
23:30.45``Erikruns at about 5 on my laptop
23:32.11brlcadcongratulations starseeker
23:32.31starseekerbrlcad: thanks :-)
23:33.13starseekereyes huge swath of mowed grass and appreciates why brlcad picked the location he did...
23:33.27``Erikheh
23:33.45``Erikpays $45/qtr for lawn service :)
23:34.01louipcwhen's the first bbq, hot tub, house party?
23:34.31starseekerheh - probably right after we remodel the whole thing
23:35.08louipcwowz
23:36.17starseekerIt's kinda a 70's palace AM
23:36.18``Erikdidja buy the 70's one?
23:36.20``Erikhah
23:36.23starseekera the moment
23:36.26starseekeryep
23:36.29starseekercan't type
23:36.38``Erikjust up the road from me, heh O.o
23:36.39louipcshag carpetting?
23:36.51louipcor is that 60s?
23:37.34starseekernot quite that bad
23:37.37starseekermirror wall though
23:37.41louipcduuude
23:41.26starseeker``Erik: yeah, that's at least three of us out that way now
23:42.37``Erikwell, bob, daytona, eric e, ...
23:48.03brlcadalso the same reason I didn't pick the huge 3 acre lotted house.. would have spent every weekend working on that enormous yard and the gardening
23:51.30starseekerwill probably regret it, but it does look nice
23:52.00starseekermust remember to beware of ceramic cat bird feeders
23:55.18brlcadit's also kinda related to your existing -above/-below options
23:55.32brlcad(thinking out loud)
23:56.20starseekeryeah, or maybe -path
23:56.45brlcadsearch . -type region -above -op sub
23:57.12brlcadit's not even necessarily the immediate parent
23:57.22brlcadit's if any of the parents are negative, it's a negative region
23:57.28starseekerthat's true
23:57.32starseekergood point
23:57.40starseekerthat actually solves a problem I hadn't thought of yet
23:57.53brlcadthe harder one is intersection to as that can be negative or positive
23:58.02brlcadand there's no way to tell really
23:58.32brlcadfortunately, they're just rarely used, but we should figure something out to be consistent
23:58.41starseekerYeah - it could look above for an intersect op and report it, but how to interpret it would be a problem
23:59.15brlcadlike based on whether the bounding volumes overlap, or assume if there's an intersection operator, that the intent was that they at least intersect (in which case it's a positive region and a modeling error)
23:59.31starseekeryeah, I was thinking the latter
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090828

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090828

00:00.12starseekerunless I'm missing something, the intent of an intersect is to have SOME solid volume result
00:00.18brlcadwell, with our present solid modeling system, yes :)
00:00.21brlcadin a pure one, no
00:00.41starseekeruh oh :-)
00:01.11brlcadbecause you could do somet complex combinations to do things like intersect to get a null set, invert that set to get an infinite set, use that to match otehr object, etc
00:01.37brlcadrather, in a CSG system, yes; in a pure boolean system, no
00:02.27starseekervotes we assume a CSG system :-P
00:03.58brlcadyou say that now :)
00:04.31starseekeroh dear
00:04.36brlcadwith your background and math tendancies, pure boolean will appeal to you -- it's just a slight superset
00:04.48brlcadi mean we actually have/use all the components
00:04.53starseekerah :-)
00:05.08brlcadit more just how you deal with things like infinite spaces (which we deal with partially via halfspaces)
00:05.16brlcadand null objects
00:05.26starseekerwell, from the standpoint of search, the -op operator would just look for and report the existence of the op, yes?
00:05.47starseekerbrlcad: erg, halfspaces.  everytime I think of those I think of nirt + half
00:06.09brlcadthat wasn't an exact example .. how you search for an operator usefully is an interesting thought
00:06.26brlcadknowing "there exists" isn't very useful by itself
00:06.48brlcadright, and nirt should report hitpoint -> infinity ideally
00:07.18starseekerah
00:07.40starseekerthinks Ed will have fun with the concept of a hit at infinity :-)
00:08.22starseekerbrlcad: so we need a combination of -op and -above with a "level above" operator
00:08.44brlcadwe go through contortions now when modeling because we don't readily expose the one operator that makes pure boolean possible
00:08.49starseekersearch -type region -above=1 -op=sub
00:10.28brlcadsearch . -type region -above \( -maxdepth=1 -op=sub \)
00:10.28starseekerthat's an expansion on the power of above (and I suppose the below) ideas to allow specific relative depth matching
00:11.02starseekeryes, that might do
00:11.13brlcadcan think of the obve option as a sub-search
00:11.21brlcadabove/below
00:11.52brlcadwith above being a reverse traversal of a "tree" that is just the parent to parent traversal
00:12.17brlcadso you can specify the same halting and depth params as boigoing down
00:12.27starseekerI think that's a conceptual change to above, but it does make sense
00:13.01starseekeractually, no it isn't
00:13.16brlcadit'll still behave the same as it does now
00:13.24starseekerright
00:13.40starseekerI see it
00:13.45starseekernifty
00:13.49brlcadjust have to make sure it respects the expression
00:14.00starseekeryeah, that's the trick
00:14.21brlcadis happier we're not breaking form
00:14.37starseekermight need -above=\( -max-depth=1 -op sub \) or some such
00:14.52brlcadhm, why's that?
00:15.22starseekerOh, no wait you're right
00:15.31starseekerwas forgetting above always takes an expression as an argument
00:15.32starseekerduh
00:15.39starseekerbeen too long since I played with search
00:16.40starseekerdoesn't think he's ever tried --max-depth inside an -above or -below, wonder if it works
00:18.32brlcaddoubts it :)
00:19.15brlcadbecause I think above/below are constructs you added.. you would have to maually make them respect the depth limiters in the rule set I'd imagine
00:19.21starseekerwould require "rerooting" the depth count... hmm...
00:19.49starseekerI suppose in that sense above and below already break with classic find?
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00:30.20brlcad-above sorta, but if it behaves like a pure reverse traversal, it's not so bad
00:30.32brlcadas then both above/below are just sub-finds
00:31.42brlcad-below is equivalent to: find . -type region -exec find {} -type comb -maxdepth=5 \;
00:35.31brlcadabove could be achieved similarly with some sort of -uses option where it traverses a different hierarchy, the result of walking dbfind recursively
00:35.55brlcadthe hard one is -op .. not sure that's as simple as we made it seem
00:36.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 0324.151.165.78 07http://brlcad.org * r1612 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_joint: /* See Also */
00:38.58brlcado.O
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01:20.02``Erik"c'mon, bender, you can push harder than that!" "no crap, my mom was a bulldozer!" heh
01:23.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35736 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): This should 'libgedify' the search command, and get it outputing its results to a Tcl string
01:24.22starseekerseems to be faster for some reason - maybe it's just me...
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01:44.40``Erik"prepare to launch universe to universe missile!"
01:49.08starseeker``Erik: heh, what's that, the Futurama movie?
02:02.46``Erikyeah, ti's on comedy central
02:26.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35737 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 7 dirs): Add search command to Archer
02:26.14starseekeryes!
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13:59.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35738 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: old notes and thoughts on a highly increasing need for an annotation primitive. comments and additions welcome. not to be confused with a plot primitive, though highly related.
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17:58.21starseekerHoly Cow.  http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17699-microscopes-zoom-in-on-molecules-at-last.html
17:58.49starseekerthat's the kind of photo I can see framing and sticking on a wall
18:17.24brlcadnow if it was just in focus!
18:17.27brlcadthat is pretty awesome
18:19.01``Erikgrouses at c++ some more
18:21.24``Erikld: Undefined symbols:
18:21.24``Erik__Unwind_Resume
18:22.56``Eriksrc/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: In function `void rt_nmg_brep(ON_Brep**, const rt_db_internal*, const bn_tol*)':
18:22.59``Eriksrc/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp:263: error: ISO C++ says that these are ambiguous, even though the worst conversion for the first is better than the worst conversion for the second:
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18:36.31starseeker``Erik: sorry!
18:37.21``Erik(only seeing the librt one on linux machines, the unwind_resume issue is only on osX.4 it'd seem)
18:37.32``Erikfbsd compiles it all ok heh
18:42.43``Erikhm, unwind resume issue is from trying to linke with --tag=CC gcc instead of --tag=CXX g++ to cope with the c++ bits
18:43.50brlcadit's missing FEXCEPTIONS
18:43.55brlcadconfigure already deals with that
18:44.20``Erikapparently not very well :D (g++ or -fexceptions, yes)
18:44.52brlcadconfigure deals with it just fine, the define isn't being used
18:45.00brlcadeither due to staleness or it's just missing from the cflags
18:45.32``Erikhm, this was a fresh purge and autogen.sh, so I don't think staleness
18:47.54brlcadlibrt_nil_CFLAGS has FEXCEPTIONS and there are a half dozen other _brep.cpp files being compiled
18:48.22``Erik(there're two different and seperate issues I pasted)
18:49.24``Erikseeing the g++/fexception one all over the place on my mac, the nmg_brep one was just that one file and just on amd64 rhel
18:55.31brlcadis the compile line actually using -Wc,-fexceptions ?
18:55.43brlcador -fexceptions directly if expanded
18:57.56brlcadthe nmg_brep error is less interesting, easier to fix :)
18:57.58``Erikdid another purge and rebuilding now...
18:58.45brlcadpurge with manual killage of the .deps?
19:03.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35739 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
19:03.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: break out half mirroring next, though not convinced the existing logic is
19:03.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: actually correct. needs testing of course, but for now it's just the previous
19:03.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: logic as it was in mirror.c as there are several dozen others to break out
19:03.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: still.
19:08.09``Erikadds LDFLAGS
19:11.02brlcadwhich binary is it actually compiling that gives the error?  brep_test?
19:11.07brlcadcomb?
19:14.15CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35740 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (5 files in 5 dirs): add FEXCEPTIONS to makefiles that seem to need it.
19:14.49brlcadsee, that's not right
19:14.57brlcadthat sounds like there's something exposed in a header that shouldn't be
19:15.24brlcadwhich is a bigger problem
19:15.29``Erikprobably, was kinda my initial guess, but *shrug* I'm tired and my brain is already on weekend
19:15.51brlcadaw, cmon, you're the one that can actually test it
19:16.04brlcadi don't get the error here
19:16.37``Erikhm
19:16.51``Erikbrep.h includes opennurbs_ext.h which has throws clauses in i t
19:17.48brlcadthat's only with __cplusplus, so it shouldn't find its way in during c-compilation
19:18.03``Erikhis is a link error, though, not a compilation error
19:18.04brlcadsupposed to get a dummy  strut
19:18.32brlcadit only manifest during link that you missed -fexceptions during compile
19:20.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35741 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: Add some different debugging to nmg_brep, try some tweaks.
19:20.35``Erikwonders if this box got another botched upgrade from radmind, as it's the only one that exhibits
19:21.22brlcadi doubt it, that exceptions error is very specific
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19:21.50brlcadmore likely someone(tm) exposed some c++ logic somewhere via header inclusion that is causing it
19:22.02``Erikall those libs gave me errors for unwind_resume missing
19:22.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35742 10/brlcad/trunk/include/brep.h: ws
19:22.23brlcadmaybe having the _brep.cpp files enabled, I think that was relatively recent
19:22.40``Eriklibrt compiles with the -f flag, though
19:22.49``Erikhrm
19:22.50brlcadcan you nm/grep the lib to see the symbols that have it?
19:23.13brlcadto see if it's just all of them (i.e. header problem) or just a specific file?
19:23.28``Erikall the brep ones
19:23.36brlcadso linking the *lib* gives the error or some bin in that same dir?
19:23.59``Erikthe lib
19:24.21``Eriklibrt links fine, libs that USE librt fail, like libged, liboptical, ...
19:24.49brlcadthat's gotta be cascade unresolved lookup failure trying to resolve the lib, yeah, that's odd
19:25.07brlcadlibrt.so have unwindresume unresolved in it?
19:25.10``Eriksrc/librt$ grep Unwind *.o | cut -d \  -f 3 | xargs
19:25.10``Erikarb8_brep.o brep.o brep_debug.o eto_brep.o nmg_brep.o opennurbs_ext.o sph_brep.o tor_brep.o
19:25.23brlcadaha
19:25.31brlcadi bet i know what it is..
19:25.33``Erikyes
19:25.37``Erik<PROTECTED>
19:25.59brlcader, maybe not
19:27.02brlcadah, yes
19:27.28``Erik<PROTECTED>
19:27.28``Erik<PROTECTED>
19:27.28``Erik<PROTECTED>
19:27.28``Erik<PROTECTED>
19:27.35``Erikright at the beginning of the opennurbs stuff
19:28.30brlcadcan you show the actual compile line for one of the _brep.cpp files?
19:28.38brlcadstrip out the --silents
19:28.52brlcadrm arb8_brep.lo or something
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19:29.57brlcador more simple I guess, grep CXXFLAGS src/librt/Makefile
19:30.12Yoshi47Hellloooo, whats going on today
19:30.13brlcader maybe "CXXFLAGS ="
19:30.24brlcadhello Yoshi47
19:30.29brlcadcoding day
19:30.34``Erikhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d53a90b2
19:30.46Yoshi47umm fun, i just finished putting in my patio, and spreading shit on my lawn
19:31.32``ErikCXXFLAGS = -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3
19:31.51brlcadyeah, huh, well blew that theory
19:34.40``Erikhrm, your desktop isn't up (stupid power outages)
19:37.55brlcadlooks like some progress, though -- I do see unresolved _Unwind_Resumes in my .o files here
19:38.06brlcad7 of them
19:38.42``Eriklibrt links fine with those missing definitions, but the 5 or so I committed changes to fail due to unresolved symbol
19:38.46brlcadoddly, opennurbs_ext isn't new
19:39.04starseekeram I breaking stuff with the *_brep.cpp files?
19:39.11starseekercan disable them in the tree if need be
19:39.35``Erik(that it works peachy keen on linux and fbsd is the confounding part)
19:40.25brlcad10.6 ?
19:41.21``Erik?
19:41.51brlcader, 10.5 or 10.4?
19:42.09``Erikthe issue ison .4, I tried compiling on .5 and didn't see any issue
19:42.22``Erikcopying src to starseekers machine to see if it breaks there
19:42.25brlcadhuh, even more reason I should be seeing it here
20:37.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35743 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: OK, the 2d curve generation in UV space is disconnected from the 3d edges in some form. The general case needs pullback from 3d into 2d space but in theory the planar case should be simpler - just need to figure it out.
20:37.25``Erikhm, seeing it on starseekers machine, too O.o lemme try an autogen.sh on another box
20:53.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35744 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): split out grip object mirroring. seems to have a similar issue computing an angle, but just leave it as is with a note.
20:54.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35745 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: whoops, no duplicate vertices please
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22:29.58``Erikho hum
22:36.14``Eriksnickers at ralith
22:39.32Raliththwaps ``Erik
22:43.43``Erikhehehe
22:44.10``Erikquit trying to treat lisp like C :D the compiler does some skeery awesome stuff
22:45.34``Erik(also; clos is chock full of awesomeness)
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23:41.09Ralith``Erik: just tryin' to port C faithfully.
23:41.37RalithEQUALP seems to do the job nicely and lispily, anyway.
23:45.25starseekerRalith, ``Erik: do I want to know?
23:45.47starseekersuspects ``Erik is training Ralith in the ways of True Power
23:46.10Ralithactually ended up there before ``Erik, iirc >_>
23:51.38``Erikno, ralith was getting strusfrated in #lisp
23:52.00Ralithnot frustrated so much as zerged by extremely helpful people who were consistently misunderstanding what I wanted to do :P
23:52.00``Erikand I was snickering cuz he was trying to pose a question from a C frame of mind and they were all ... not... quit... getting it
23:52.18Ralithwhich is admittedly among the more frustrating things one might encounter on the internet
23:52.34``ErikI know, those damn snobby elitist lisp people
23:52.38Ralithhehe
23:52.48Ralithis surprised more lispers aren't familiar with C
23:53.08``Erikmost probably are somewhat, but ya really tend to shift gears
23:54.05``Erikhas bounced between the two quite often over the last decade, is used to shifting gears like that :)
23:54.19``Erik(though scheme from '00-07, not CL)
23:57.16``Erikstill waiting for a BRL-CAD CFFI though
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090829

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090829

00:02.47Ralithwaiting for?  I expect we're the only two lispy BRL-CADers :P
00:05.10``Eriknope
00:05.29``Erikstarseeker is a big common lisp nut, brlcad has put some time down in both cl and emacs lisp I believe
00:06.24``Erikphinode has jabbered about doing some stuff in lisp at one point
00:06.24``Erikor, uh, whatever lbutler was calling himself
00:27.01Yoshi47so any new cool parts made up lately
00:44.38Ralithoh wow
00:44.55Ralithinteresting that there's so much lisp experience here then
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13:29.57starseekerhrm  make[2]: *** No rule to make target `primitives/grip/grip_mirror.c', needed by `grip_mirror.lo'.  Stop.
13:31.30``Eriksaw that yesterday
13:31.39``Eriksomeone forgot to svn add after breaking a file out
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15:55.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35746 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/grip/grip_mirror.c: oops! add the new grip mirror file.
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16:17.10``Erikhmmmm
16:17.28``Erikhttp://xquartz.macosforge.org/trac/wiki
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17:41.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35747 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ (Makefile.am obj-g.c): beginnings of obj-g
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19:30.14``Erikthinks the parsing on that obj reader is correct for 'triangle' obj's without normals, but lacks normals, quad read, and writing the bot_internal to the db :/ ran out of steam
19:30.54``Erik(if anyone wants to try glueing the writer together, feel free)
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23:17.14starseekerplays with qcad
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090830

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090830

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02:54.33brlcadoof, that's pushing a 7.16
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16:20.20``Erik"why don't you want to have a child?" "didn't I try to adopt that eighteen year old korean girl?" heh, good old naked gun :)
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18:14.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35748 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): break out poly mirroring
18:31.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35749 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): break out old bspline/nurb mirror into it's own function.
18:34.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35750 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): break out arbn mirroring.
18:35.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35751 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/mirror.c: remove the old arbn section
18:38.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35752 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): break out pipe mirroring
18:43.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35753 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): break out particle mirroring.
18:47.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35754 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): split out rpc mirroring
18:50.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35755 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): break out rhc mirroring
18:52.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35756 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/mirror.c: keep me honest, hook up the new rhc mirroring, fix callback type
18:55.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35757 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): woot, break out the epa mirroring. just 10 more to go...
18:59.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35758 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): break out eto mirroring next
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19:03.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35759 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/librt/librt.vcproj: sync the new _brep.cpp files to the windows build
19:06.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35760 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): break out ze hyp mir
19:45.13CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35761 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
19:45.13CIA-28BRL-CAD: separate out nmg mirroring from rt_mirror(). slightly more complicated as it
19:45.13CIA-28BRL-CAD: wants a tolerance for nmg_rebound() .. which is counterintuitive. shouldn't
19:45.13CIA-28BRL-CAD: need a tolerance to mirror. just use a default tolerance to keep the signature
19:45.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: pure.
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19:50.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35762 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
19:50.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: need to consolidate and clean up default tolerance management. default
19:50.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: hardcoded tolerance is 0.0005 in most places, but at least a couple are
19:50.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: incorrectly 0.005 instead and there shouldn't be magic numbers thrown about
19:50.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: regardless. an init macro would help.
19:51.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35763 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_mirror.c: make the hardcoded tolerance const.
19:54.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35764 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): break out ars mirroring.
19:56.38CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35765 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): break out ebm mirroring.
19:58.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35766 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/mirror.c: just noticed we're missing at least ehy, maybe others from here.
19:59.26yukonbobwork it brlcad!!
20:01.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35767 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): break out displacement map mirroring...
20:05.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35768 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewedge.c: for consistency, make md work for max_dist too.
20:12.58Ralithwoah
20:13.06Ralithhaving fun there brlcad?
20:15.49``Erikat this rate, I'm gonna have a hell of a mess to clean up (and/or bitch about) on tuesday O.o :D *duck*
20:17.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35769 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS TODO doc/docbook/system/man1/en/rtedge.xml):
20:17.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: document the new antialias/aa and both_sides/bs options to rtarea. while
20:17.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: antialias is still a WIP and experimental, the basic framework is in place and
20:17.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: the two options play well together. need to make the framework more
20:17.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: generalized, though, so better filter processing can occur. also fix the manual
20:18.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: page for rtedge which looked to be missing the end quotes for all options.
20:24.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35770 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewedge.c: add a couple todo notes about the aa implementation needing more work, about the horrible book-keeping inefficiency, and a desire to use intensity-based canny or shen-castan style edge detection.
20:28.40louipchttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDBsSht1_VA
20:29.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35771 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/dspline.c: ws cleanup. looks like this is only used by the fire shader.. but is an interesting set of routines regardless for catmull spline interpolation.
20:31.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35772 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): break out vol from the mirroring foray. .. not much left!
20:35.28yukonboblouipc: very cool
20:35.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35773 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): stay on target, stay on target. break out superellipsoid mirroring into it's own thing too.
20:48.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35774 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): even separate out combination mirroring. alas, combs funcs are not as neatly consolidated (yet), but add it anyways until functab restructuring is further along.
20:50.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35775 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: add m4 to aclocal shtuff, mebbe it even works on automake 1.6
20:52.27*** join/#brlcad talcite_ (n=Matthew@bas2-toronto21-1242310127.dsl.bell.ca)
20:53.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35776 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): all done with the last object mirror remapping and deserving a cookie. broke out bot mirroring.
20:55.02``Erikhrm
20:58.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35777 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/mirror.c:
20:58.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: now that all objects are refactored out, clean up. remove the transformation
20:58.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: matrix composition and debug printing. document the plethora of objects missing
20:58.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: a mirror implementation: brep, cline, ehy, extrude, hf, metaball, pnts, rec,
20:58.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: revolve, sketch, submodel
22:12.06*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=Matthew@bas2-toronto21-1242350938.dsl.bell.ca)
22:29.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35778 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob made a mod to the pro/e exporter so that it creates a Proe_Name attribute for each BRL-CAD object created that contains the original pro/e assembly/part name.
22:58.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35779 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
22:58.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: document erik's addition of a new obj-g geometry importer. that change along
22:58.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: with the slew of others that have happened definitely push this release out of
22:58.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: the 7.14 line. going to try to tag a release today as soon as I can verify all
22:58.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: changes are documented.
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23:26.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35780 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac:
23:26.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: if LIBGL is '' and we happen to be on a system that will conviently link opengl
23:26.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: when the user provides LIBS=-lGL, this test will incorrectly succeed for the
23:26.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: WindowsGL interface. Add a wgl-specific call that should hopefully work fine,
23:26.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: namely calling wglMakeCurrent() with NULL parameters. needs testing on windows,
23:26.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: obviously.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090831

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090831

00:42.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35781 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/binary_obj.c: per the problem encountered by Alex Vlasse, make sure the database directory is initialized when someone calls rt_mk_binunif() otherwise it will always result in failure due to db_write() seeing a -1 eof offset.
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01:57.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35782 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/CMakeLists.txt: add arb8_brep.ccp and nmg_brep.cpp to the cmake build
02:34.03yukonbobis cmake a viable option to try building brl-cad, or is it a WIP?
02:34.24yukonbob(or perhaps it's both?)
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10:24.43d-loMernin all!
10:40.34``Erikyargh
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11:46.27*** join/#brlcad ert976 (n=ertan@88.240.173.5)
11:48.34brlcadhola
11:48.40brlcadyukonbob: both
11:48.49brlcadit won't build everything
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12:14.03*** part/#brlcad ert976 (n=ertan@88.240.173.5)
12:16.10jdolineranyone around?
12:17.02brlcadnope
12:19.14jdoliner:p
12:19.24jdolineri have an annoying problem
12:19.35jdolinerwell there's some aspect of the opennurbs api I'm missing
12:20.21jdolinerbasically one of the bezier curve constructor functions is ON_BezierCurve(PointArray)
12:20.43jdolinerso I use that, but then whenever I try to do something with the curve it segfaults immediately
12:21.29jdolineras far as I can see there isn't even a subroutine it's segfaulting in
12:22.34brlcadyou mean when the application starts, or when you first use the object or when the object is constructed?
12:22.46jdolinerwhen I first use the object
12:22.50jdolinerby use I mean call a method
12:22.55brlcadso it constructs cleanly
12:23.01jdolineryeah
12:23.02brlcadas far as you know..
12:23.11jdolinerand inspecting it in the debugger
12:23.24jdolinerit seems pretty much the same as curves that don't segfault
12:23.39jdolineralthough there's a lot going on in curve instances
12:23.56brlcadwell if you're in the debugger, how/where is it faulting?
12:24.04brlcaddoes the stack disappear on you?
12:24.38jdolineryes...
12:24.43jdolinerI think it does
12:24.46jdolinerthe line is:
12:24.49jdolinercurve1->GetTightBoundingBox(bbox1);
12:24.52jdolinerthat's where gdb reports it
12:25.09jdolinerso maybe it just doesn't see the source for the actually seg fault?
12:25.53jdolinerwhy would the stack disappear on me. I've never had that happen to me
12:27.01jdolinerbtw that's: src/proc-db/surfaceintersect.cpp:390
12:27.04``Eriksmashed
12:27.14jdolineryou or the stack?
12:27.48``Erikthe stack
12:27.50``Erikheh
12:28.29jdoliner:p
12:28.46``Erikif'n ya write up past heap and into the stack, or if you do "scary" stuff using pointers into the stack, bad things happen and gdb doesn't try to print the cooked stack out
12:29.01jdolinerk
12:29.07jdolinerthat makes sense to me
12:29.42jdolinerbut something doesn't feel right about that
12:29.48indianlarryit does expect the PointArray to be order big
12:30.11brlcadlooking at the On_BezierCurve class, it looks like the m__GetBezierCurveTightBoundingBox is something you have to implement
12:30.14jdolinerindianlarry: explain order big
12:30.23brlcadwhich is what GetTightBoundingBox() uses
12:30.28jdolineroh
12:30.37jdolinerwhat line is the empty function on?
12:30.51brlcadit should just be returning false if it's not implemented, but maybe you're relying on it being something non-false
12:31.35brlcadlook at On_BezierCurve::GetTightBoundingBox()
12:32.14brlcadyou'll see it just calls m__GetBezierCurveTightBoundingBox() .. which is never set anywhere, probably something removed from the lib for openNURBS
12:32.51jdolinerk I see that
12:32.56brlcadthose are public functions though, meant to be easily stubbed in
12:33.00brlcadthere are like 5 of them
12:33.20brlcad<PROTECTED>
12:33.24brlcad<PROTECTED>
12:33.27brlcad<PROTECTED>
12:33.30brlcad<PROTECTED>
12:33.33brlcad4 to be more precise
12:34.11jdolinerhmm, okay
12:34.37jdolinerit still kinda bugs me that that's causing a segfault
12:35.01brlcadyeah, from the look of the code, that's not exactly what's causing a segfault, at least I don't see a problem
12:35.14brlcadit would be some other assumption
12:35.34brlcadunless   static ON__m__GetLocalClosestPointOnBezierCurve m__GetLocalClosestPointOnBezierCurve; static ON__m__GetLocalBezierCurveSurfaceIntersection m__GetLocalBezierCurveSurfaceIntersection; static ON__m__GetLocalBezierCurveCurveIntersection m__GetLocalBezierCurveCurveIntersection; static ON__m__GetBezierCurveTightBoundingBox m__GetBezierCurveTightBoundingBox;
12:35.39brlcadoops
12:35.54brlcadunless m__GetBezierCurveTightBoundingBox() was never initialized and was just some random memory address
12:36.23brlcadbut I see it initialized in opennurbs_basic.cpp
12:36.38brlcad(to 0)
12:37.33brlcadah, there's the 5th, ON_BezierSurface::m__GetClosestPointOnBezierSurface()
12:37.44brlcadthe others are ON_BezierCurve callbacks
12:38.17jdolineryeah
12:38.36jdolinerwell initializing it to 0 wouldn't explain a segfault would it?
12:38.46brlcadno, that should prevent it
12:38.58brlcadnot initializing it to zero would explain it
12:39.07jdolineryeah
12:39.28brlcadstep through one line at a time, should be clear when things go wonky
12:39.49brlcadbreak on GetTightBoundingBox and step into it
12:40.04brlcadsuspect it's a problem either right before or shortly after
12:41.33jdolinermaybe I'm doing it wrong but it's not letting me step in
12:41.48brlcadhow's that?
12:41.51jdolineri give it step command and it segfaults immediately
12:42.02jdolineron the GetTight... call
12:42.07brlcad"i"?
12:42.23brlcador "n"?
12:43.15jdolinerumm, I'm confused
12:43.17brlcad"p BezierCurve::GetTightBoundingBox" should be a valid address
12:43.38brlcadp yourobject->GetTightBoundingBox" should also be valid
12:44.41jdolineryeah they both are
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12:47.20brlcad"i" is the you compiled opennurbs with optimization turned off?
12:47.30brlcads/"i" is the//
12:48.09brlcadwhat happens if you put a break on BezierCurve::GetTightBoundingBox
12:49.36jdolinerit still hits that segfault :/
12:50.10brlcadimplies that the address isn't right
12:50.23brlcadwhich means you got memory corrupted somewhere before you get there
12:51.26brlcadyou can put a printf in the routine and break on it to make sure, but you probably have some null deref going on somewhere
12:52.16jdolinerhmm, actually calling any method of the curve
12:52.21jdolinergets me a segfault
12:52.28jdolinereven one's that are implemented
13:09.48jdolinerwell here's something interesting:
13:10.03brlcadsounds like it's not constructed
13:10.27jdolinerif I do everything the same but instead of declaring it as an ON_Curve I call it an ON_BezierCurve, then there's no segfaults
13:11.25brlcader, que?  how were you declaring it as an ON_Curve and using it as an ON_BezierCurve?
13:11.35brlcadyou would have needed a dynamic cast
13:13.43jdolinereureka
13:13.49jdolinerwell atleast I think so
13:13.59jdolineryes that's the question I needed to hear
13:14.44jdolinerI'm declaring it fine as a BezierCurve but things are getting screwy because I'm trying to then abstract it up to just a Curve
13:14.58jdolinerand I'm doing that in a wrong way
13:15.05jdolinerlet's see if this theory holds any water
13:27.56brlcadyou can cast up and down just fine, but you should be explicit about it
13:28.36brlcadstill doesn't explain the crash, but I'm guessing still an invalid dereference
13:29.02jdolinerwell so it turns out BezierCurves aren't actually an extension of ON_Curve
13:29.16jdolinerI just kinda missed that until now
13:29.25jdolinersince everything else with Curve in the name is
13:29.40brlcadahhh
13:29.45jdolinerthere's our problem
13:30.22jdolinerand a long time ago when I got the compile error on that assignment, I just coerced it
13:30.26jdolinerwhich was silly of me
13:30.54jdolinerbut now that we know this it turns out nurbscurves are extensions of ON_Curves
13:32.14brlcadahhh, hehe, yeah *that*'ll do it
13:32.37brlcadhence a pointer with a value, but not a valid pointer to a class function
13:32.44jdolineryup
13:34.01jdolinerah but fortunately, this won't be too hard to fix at all
13:35.20Yoshi47i think i know the aswer to this, but is there a way to view the geomtery of just the part you are making and not the cutting shapes and other stuff like the render view put in line view
13:55.52brlcadYoshi47: running 'rt' without any options will give you a quick rendering
13:56.14brlcad(in a window)
13:57.35Yoshi47im talking more about in mged when im editing and creating parts to see how they look without doing a render, kinda like what other CAD programs do, they show you the outline of the part.
13:58.42Yoshi47its still very hard for me to use brlcad over varicad for drawing up parts, but i'll try and stick with it.
13:59.55Yoshi47also takes alot of brain power to type the commands out and learn them, i guess archer will fix some of this with a more interactive gui when creating shapes
14:01.02brlcadYoshi47: I know what you mean, and the current way to get that "shaded view" is via rt
14:01.11brlcadit gets at the heart of how geometry is represented
14:01.14Yoshi47ha
14:01.24brlcadand very much related to the BREP/NURBS effort
14:01.40Yoshi47so i would just have another window rt and then i have to update it manauly everytime i chagne something right
14:01.46brlcadit can't show you edges because there are no edges, at least no explicit ones
14:01.53Yoshi47yep i get it
14:02.12brlcadarcher is indeed a lot more interactive
14:02.17Yoshi47be nice to have rt render reatime on a second screen
14:02.29Yoshi47*realtime
14:02.32brlcadbut there will always be a strong command-line component for numerical precision purposes
14:02.52brlcadyeah, there's actually a new display interface that does almost exactly that in the works
14:03.07Yoshi47oh i get that part and i like that part over other cad programs its just i have to relate back to the intro Appendix for the points
14:03.08louipcI'd like to improve the cli first heh
14:03.13brlcadruns wonderfully actually .. and is something you can try but you'll have to compile from source
14:03.26Yoshi47whats it called?
14:03.29louipcmake it more intuitive, discoverable
14:03.39*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
14:04.04brlcadwe have a display manager library (libdm) .. right now you're using either our "xgl" (i.e., glx)
14:04.32Yoshi47ah, i guess there is no docs on it or how to setup it up
14:04.33brlcader, "ogl" (i.e., glx) display manager for X11 or our "X" display manager
14:04.41brlcadit's not a setup issue
14:04.47brlcadit's not an end-user feature yet
14:05.16Yoshi47umm
14:05.16brlcadit's a new display manager called "rtgl" that renders objects via raytracing and then feeds point clouds to opengl
14:05.36brlcadvery impressive, actually -- working on merging that into mged/archer as a display mode
14:05.37Yoshi47and it does that realtime
14:05.41brlcadyep
14:05.45Yoshi47cool
14:05.53Yoshi47now i want to use it!
14:05.55brlcadalmost instantly gives you the perception of a solid view
14:06.06Yoshi47ive got goose bumps
14:06.08brlcadand can be rotated around interactive
14:06.09louipchaha yeah how do we enable it
14:06.14Yoshi47lol
14:06.15brlcad--enable-rtgl
14:06.41brlcadthe issue is right now it's all or nothing, you replace the x11 wireframe with that display manager
14:06.55Yoshi47that is a problem
14:07.03brlcadand it's not well suited to some of the dm tasks yet, like hilighting objects or interactive editing
14:07.23brlcadwhich is why it's not turned on, that's a really new feature
14:07.32brlcadworked on by a summer student just this summer
14:07.54brlcadi'll see if I can put up one of his videos later today
14:08.06louipcsweet
14:08.30brlcadruns off late
14:08.47Yoshi47can you start up 2 mged and then make both look at the same db
14:09.04Yoshi47i wonder what hes late for
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15:07.29brlcadYoshi47: you can actually start up just one mged and get multiple display maangers, just type "attach X" in mged and see
15:09.37Yoshi47cool
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15:21.10``Erik_´/clear
15:21.14``Erik_heh
15:31.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35783 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: ACLOCAL_AMFLAGS belongs in Makefile.am, which we already had there. having it here was invalid shell syntax (make ACLOCAL_AMFLAGS look like a command). keep the AC_CONFIG_AUX_DIR() though.
15:38.09``Erikheh, my bad, guess I saw a bad example
15:38.27``Erik(thought we had it, couldn't find it in the .ac *shrug* ah well)
15:41.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35784 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: grr. Still trying to get the nmg->brep stuff to line up.
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16:48.32PrezKennedyhey brlcad, ill be working at a big geometric building soon
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17:41.45brlcadPrezKennedy: what does that mean?
17:42.23Yoshi47im lost too
17:42.33PrezKennedypentagon
17:42.38brlcadah, heh
17:43.15brlcadI hear you're going to turn it into a hexagon
17:46.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35785 10/brlcad/trunk/include/conf/ (MINOR PATCH): next release makes more sense as 7.16 after all. bump revision to 7.15.0 and begin release testing.
17:47.42Yoshi47PrezKennedy, what you goin to be doing there or is that secret?
17:48.03brlcadselling hot dogs from the back of his trunk
17:48.05PrezKennedy...programming
17:48.16PrezKennedyhmmm i like the hot dog idea
17:48.23PrezKennedyi can sell water at the halfway point from the parking lot
17:48.26PrezKennedy$5 a bottle
17:48.30louipchahhah
17:59.11``Erikheh, conan the librarian
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18:19.34Yoshi47fun
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19:13.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35786 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/iges/n_iges.cpp: initialize against the c-string so it's copied. fixes a failure to parse/find the start header.
19:23.54CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35787 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/iges/ (brlcad.hpp brlcad_brep.cpp): add standard header/footers.
19:26.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35788 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/iges/nmain.cpp: add standard header/footer.
19:27.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35789 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/iges/ (5 files): rename brlcad.hpp to brlcad_brep.hpp to be consistent with cpp file and slightly less ambiguous.
19:28.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35790 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/iges/ (brlcad_brep.cpp brlcad_brep.hpp): ws indent cleanup
19:38.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35791 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: prevent crashes when there is no brep to write.
19:47.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35792 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/iges/ (Makefile.am n_iges.hpp n_main.cpp nmain.cpp): rename nmain.cpp to n_main.cpp to be consistent with the other 'new' iges convert files in here
19:50.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35793 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ (Makefile.am ged_obj.c): Added a png command to suck the images from openGL and create a png file. The older png has been renamed to pngwf (i.e. it creates a wireframe image only). Also got rid of most warnings about unused variables.
19:53.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35794 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/iges/ (n_iges.cpp n_iges.hpp): ws style indent consistency cleanup
19:54.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35795 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: Try reworking some bizarre referencing.
20:08.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35796 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: Hmm, u and v were reversed - swap, and now (at least on OSX) a valid nmg (arb8) is generated and can be raytraced.
20:37.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35797 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: No time to figure out the Linux build problems this is causing right now - comment out guts of function for release, will uncomment again and fix after tagging.
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20:49.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35798 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/iges/ (BrepHandler.cpp brlcad_brep.cpp n_iges.cpp): fix a few crashes trying to read in RationalBSplineSurface entities, undo some comment braimage
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21:13.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35799 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/csgbrep.cpp: Start roughing out the test csg->brep routines for the other arbs.
21:20.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35800 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: quell the warnings and ambiguous conversion errors. the intent is to call it up as an index, so do that. re-enable for compilation.
21:23.15brlcadleaves it as an exercise to the reader to determine whether that needs to be a long int
21:23.28starseekerbrlcad: thanks :-)
21:25.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35801 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: Call SetTrimIsoFlags. ARB4 test case now succeeds.
21:29.17brlcadif you read through the error it gave, and ignore the pointless bitching, you see that it's ambiguous [] operator, one is a class member that takes an int, the other is a built-in that takes a long
21:29.39brlcadI think the bitching is the gcc devs saying "we're required to halt on this, even though it's stupid"
21:30.37brlcadrelated to the template instantiation, it instantiated a long somewhere, which probably implies the int-sized one defined by opennurbs is insufficiently indexed
21:31.24brlcadthe fix is trivial, just feed it the int they're expecting
21:33.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35802 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: refactor tclcad commands (e.g., png) to libged
21:36.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35803 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/iges/BrepHandler.cpp: add missing header/footer and clean up style/indent.
21:37.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35804 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/human.c: Move variable declarations to the tops of their respective code blocks (i.e. make it compile as a C file).
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03:43.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35805 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (librt/primitives/arb8/arb8_brep.cpp proc-db/csgbrep.cpp): Enable arbs 4-8 using rt_arb_brep calling rt_nmg_brep. It looks like this completes the handing of all arbs, but arbn is a separate case and will need its own routine and test case.
04:33.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35806 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (librt/Makefile.am proc-db/csgbrep.cpp): Nuts. arbn is either causing or exposing some issues - doesn't generate a valid brep even in isolation, and in csgbrep it causes corruption of the other arbs somehow when enabled.
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12:39.43``Erikramalamadingdangdong
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12:45.22Yoshi47``Erik, just for that you can help me! lol
12:45.56Yoshi47jk
12:46.29Yoshi47i do have a question though, where's the best place to learn about assemblies and proper way of doing that in brl-cad
12:52.44``Erikum, the books?
12:53.05``Erikthere's nothing magic about an assembly, it's an analog to a real life assembly
12:53.42``Eriksince it's composed of regions, and a region is a single homogeneous object, ya just ... stick 'em together and go
12:54.32Yoshi47i think im having trouble with the naming of parts and their shapes,
12:55.08Yoshi47like if i have a bearing, should i start all shapes with bearing1.*.s so when i concat the dbs the names don't interfere with other names
12:56.46``Eriksure, it's up to you... and you can rename (mv) and rebuild the regions (even with the gui combination editor) if you change your mind
12:57.08_clock_Who likes Madonna?
12:57.18``Erik(doesn't dbconcat rename on conflict?)
12:57.55Yoshi47``Erik, i think so, thats what brlcad said, but i would like to come up with a good naming convention so i don't get that and my regions stay good as well.
12:58.09Yoshi47_clock_, what does that have to do with brlcad
12:58.42_clock_Yoshi47: nothing
12:59.06Yoshi47oh
12:59.07Yoshi47<PROTECTED>
12:59.54``Erikher bra's are trivial to model in BRL-CAD, that's what it has to do :D *duck*
13:01.17Yoshi47nice
13:05.35_clock_``Erik: you mean she has no bra's?
13:05.46_clock_half-plane?
13:06.53``Eriksimple cones
13:09.32``Erikin bra_cup trc 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 0.0001
13:09.43``Erikhttp://media.washingtontimes.com/media/img/photos/2008/08/26/20080825-234716-pic-872712083.jpg
13:09.46``Erikperfect match
13:09.49``Erik:D
13:11.52starseekerscowls at the arbn for ruining the party and hits the road
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14:34.18Yoshi47who wants my .375"OD bearing?
14:34.54starseekerthe model or the bearing? ;-)
14:35.15Yoshi47the model!
14:35.26starseekerlet's see :-)
14:35.34Yoshi47one sec,
14:35.41starseekeryou could try uploading it to more.brlcad.org
14:36.37Yoshi47ok i'll try when i got it ready i found a flaw
14:37.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35807 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/arbn/arbn_brep.cpp: Whoops, how about adding arbn_brep. This is a recreation, checking compile now.
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15:12.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35808 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Oh yeah, should free memory that is allocated. The arbn brep is still messed up but since it doesn't crash now enable it.
15:20.22brlcadstarseeker: msvc8 and cmake build
15:24.35CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35809 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Add arbn_brep.cpp to the other build system logics
15:31.23Yoshi47starseeker, what license should I do?
15:39.30louipcwtfpl
15:39.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03josiah47 07http://more.brlcad.org * r26 10Model repository/: Bearing 0.375 (insert model: )
15:40.20Yoshi47how long does it take for the render to automatically come up?
16:01.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03 07http://more.brlcad.org * r26 10Model repository/: Bearing 0.375 (update model: BRLCAD processing completed.)
16:13.05Yoshi47oh i guess that answers my question
16:34.34Yoshi47why is there no search function for the wiki?
16:34.43Yoshi47I need more info on concating dbs
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16:43.32Yoshi47i just used the import utility, duh
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17:29.39brlcadYoshi47: the principles of effective modeling covers assemblies and naming conventions some (vol III)
17:29.53Yoshi47ok thanks
17:36.41brlcadand I would suggest you not worry too much about naming convention conflicts, so long as the names within a given .g make relative sense
17:37.34Yoshi47is that because when i do an import i can add a prefix?
17:37.34brlcaddbconcating with a prefix is pretty common practice to help indicate a scope of sorts, and minimizes conflicts
17:37.34brlcadbingo
17:37.50Yoshi47i figured that out after i changed my names, lol
17:37.56Yoshi47oh well i learnt
17:38.11starseekerYoshi47: what license would you want to use?
17:38.20Yoshi47i did GLV3
17:38.26Yoshi47but i don't know the difference
17:38.46Yoshi47guess i good read, but does it make that much of a diff
17:40.38starseekerBRL-CAD itself is LGPL - Creative Commons is a popular choice
17:41.57Yoshi47only BSD and GPLv3 were in the list, so LGPL is v3
17:43.06starseekerErm
17:43.14starseekerwe'll need to expand that list
17:44.05starseekerIf you could pick any of the various choices, would you have a preference?  (Generally it runs BSD most free to GPL most restricted)
17:46.14brlcadyeah, wow, probably just to stub "something"
17:46.27brlcadgplv3 wouldn't have been top of my list to add first
17:47.48brlcadbsd/mit/apache, cc-by/cc-sa/cc-by-sa, lgpl
17:50.52Yoshi47i think i would choose the most free
17:51.40brlcadthose all allow pretty much any use
17:51.58brlcadsomething like cc-pd would probably be ideal
17:52.17starseekerbrlcad: any idea where that license list lives?
17:52.44brlcadstarseeker: pretty good idea it's in the web root for more ;)
17:54.35starseekeris poking there
17:55.18brlcadsearch for the gplv3 string, can't be too many
17:56.13starseekeraren't any
17:56.41starseekerYoshi47: nifty bearing!
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17:56.52brlcadif it's displaying in a webpage, it has to be somewhere -- it might be an entity stored in the db
17:56.53Yoshi47ya its tiny,
17:56.59brlcaddrupal being all content-based
17:57.04brlcadsee the admin panel
17:58.22brlcador email elena
17:58.33Yoshi47whos elena?
17:58.39brlcadshe'd probably enjoy hearing that it's being put to use
17:58.52brlcadelena put the model repository site together
17:59.11Yoshi47oh, summer student?
17:59.17brlcadyeah
17:59.25brlcadgsoc
17:59.31Yoshi47year?
18:00.03brlcadgrad student in eastern europe, working gsoc this year
18:00.09Yoshi47cool
18:00.23brlcadvery cool, she did fantastic
18:00.55Yoshi47so is there a search function on the website/wiki?
18:01.26brlcadthere is, but it's disabled
18:01.56Yoshi47umm, can it be enables only for registered users?
18:02.03brlcadwe don't  yet have integration between the drupal and mediawiki sides of things, didn't want to leave things in a confusing/partial state
18:02.56Yoshi47oh,
18:03.42Yoshi47i don't know if i asked this before but where is the snapping stuff? is there a plan to make it better?
18:05.16Yoshi47is there something special to get the grid to draw or is it my color scheme?
18:05.36brlcadpresume you mean snap-to-grid?  it's on the mged menu, turn on the grid option and then snapping
18:05.52brlcadi believe the grid default is black
18:05.55Yoshi47kinda, no snap to middle?
18:06.00starseekerwill have to look into the more site setup more later
18:06.01Yoshi47yep i checked it
18:06.40Yoshi47i guess its hard to do snap to middle with solid objects
18:06.44brlcadthere are definitely ideas to make it better -- parametrics and constraints make object snapping a lot easier
18:07.00brlcadit's snaps to the *grid*
18:07.20Yoshi47ya i just have to get that going, there seems to be a duplication in the menus
18:08.04brlcadyeah, there's quite a bit of duplication, sucks but nobody has stepped up to propose an improved reorg (again, priorities and all)
18:08.18Yoshi47ah
18:08.55Yoshi47i have draw grid on but nothing shows up
18:09.15brlcaddo you have a black background?
18:09.23Yoshi47nope on winter theme
18:09.34Yoshi47and grid is set to black on that
18:09.35brlcadtry turning faceplate on
18:09.58Yoshi47didn't work
18:10.28brlcadah, default grid is white
18:11.06Yoshi47even though grid color is 0 0 0 in  color schemes
18:11.59brlcadmmm, black is barely visible
18:12.18Yoshi47i can't see anything
18:12.47brlcaddo you see a wireframe?
18:13.02brlcador have you been rendering/raytracing images into the view with overlay
18:13.05Yoshi47from my parts yes
18:13.17Yoshi47nope ray tracing disabled
18:13.46brlcadhrm
18:14.45Yoshi47what anchor point?
18:15.00Yoshi47oh thats what it is
18:15.17brlcad>
18:15.17Yoshi47guess that kinda makes sense, but not really good for a default
18:15.18brlcad?
18:15.51Yoshi47soon as i pout 0 0 0 for anchor point in grid control panel it went on it was set to NAN NAN NAN
18:16.13Yoshi47the grid helps, don't need measurement tools as much
18:28.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r35810 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/brep.c librt/primitives/brep/brep_debug.cpp): updates to mged 'brep' command
18:29.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35811 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/csgbrep.cpp: Whoops, didn't mean to commit the turning off of everything but arbn
18:31.43Yoshi47perfect
18:32.41Yoshi47im back
18:33.51brlcadcool
18:34.22brlcadyeah, it's sort of a balance of quick-to-implement and necessary/useful-features
18:36.18Yoshi47what is the proper name for a race track shape?
18:37.12``Erikcan think of many different race track shapes
18:37.12brlcadan oval?
18:37.24brlcadellipse?
18:37.24Yoshi47with staight sides
18:37.25``Erikwoulda said more like a 'pill' shape,
18:37.30Yoshi47yeah
18:37.35Yoshi47what ``Erik said
18:37.49brlcadyeah, pill-shaped in 3d is our "part" primitive
18:38.17brlcadtwo sphereical ends with an joining cone
18:38.38Yoshi47joing rcc
18:38.48brlcadflattened would simply be two rccs with a joining arb8
18:39.17``Erikeach end could be a small rcc subtracted from a large rcc, then a big subtract arb8 in the middle to make them halves, then 2 more arb8's added in to make the straight pieces
18:39.32brlcadwould with ascii art, but they'd both end up looking like a penis
18:40.23Yoshi47ok two rcc one on each end of a arb8 half way
18:41.10brlcadif the sides don't need to be perfectly flat, you could intersect a part with an arb8
18:41.30``Erik(+ (- (+ bigrccnorth bigrccsouth) (+ smallrccnorth smallrccsouth midarb8)) westarb8 eastarb8)
18:41.33Yoshi47its just going to be a cut out for my x slide
18:41.44Yoshi47but what is the geometric name for that kind of shape
18:42.49``Erikthere may not be a specific name... :/
18:44.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35812 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
18:44.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: part is and has always been a stupid short name for the 'particle' primitive,
18:44.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: which was also a bad name idea. v6 needs to fix that by minimally renaming it
18:44.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: to something less confusing, like 'pill' or by implementing a more generalized
18:44.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: metaprimitive structure for supporting constraint object combinations like
18:44.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: 'part'.
18:55.50brlcadracetrack-shaped, pill-shaped, stadium-shaped, ..
18:56.16brlcaddon't think there's a specific geometric name for the shape, other than by a verbose definition
18:56.24Yoshi47ok
18:57.50brlcadlike two semicircles with equal radii cojoined with parallel lines where the diameter of the circles equals the distance between those parallel lines
18:58.08brlcadthat'd make for a really long object name..
18:58.17brlcadwould go with "pill" :)
18:58.33Yoshi47too
18:58.37brlcador even "oval"
18:59.05Yoshi47oval with straight runs
19:04.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35813 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/obj-g.c: think out loud on how to write the .g file
19:07.46Yoshi47why does my mged CLI suddenly say more arguemtns needed when typing in "in" and
19:07.57Yoshi47it doesn't step me through it any more,
19:08.02Yoshi47soem kinda setting?
19:08.21``Eriksoftware bug? the in prompt code is ... fragile.
19:08.51louipcoh?
19:09.26Yoshi47must of been, restarted and its fine
19:09.50brlcadodd..., if you can figure out how to reproduce it, please do report
19:10.02Yoshi47yep will do
19:12.56``Erikbrlcad: do we have any kinda template for keynote? or "just use gradient" ?
19:13.39brlcadnope, I'd tweaked something a few times, but most of the defaults are eye-catching enough by themselves
19:15.41starseekerspots NewPlanarFaceLoop in opennurbs and wonders if that's a better way to go here...
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20:00.58starseekerOh, there it is ON_BrepFromMesh
20:01.17starseekerso the question is whether it is easier to go nmg->ON_meshTopology
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20:21.01brlcadoh, starseeker .. that file has several interesting routines... :)
20:21.30brlcadand yeah, they do look to be non-stubbed implementations..
20:21.52brlcadON_BrepBox() is arb8->brep :)
20:25.19brlcadwhich unveils a few other interesting routines like ON_NurbsSurfaceQuadrilateral() and _MeshNurbsSurface()
20:25.34brlcadthe latter is only in the rhino sdk, looks like the tessellator
20:27.12brlcadah yeah, tessellators for five of them: ON_MeshNurbsSurface, ON_MeshPlaneSurface, ON_MeshRevSurface, ON_MeshSumSurface, ON_MeshBrepFace
20:29.54brlcadON_BrepWedge is an arb5
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01:21.13starseekerthis is interesting - it looks like ON_Mesh only has faces and verticies
01:21.52brlcadlike BoTs
01:22.27starseekerdoes that make nmg->ON_Mesh a lossy conversion?
01:22.29brlcadconnectivity may be implied
01:23.21Yoshi477is there more docs on arbn?
01:23.22brlcadnot 100% sure, but shouldn't be from what I saw in the API for managing them
01:26.04brlcadfaq also says ON_Mesh faces may be non-planar.. which is pretty interesting
01:26.38starseekergrinds his teeth - doggone it, it's so close to working as is...
01:33.40brlcadthe biggest key off is their ON_MeshParameters class that they use for tessellation (and the fact that it's the result of their generalized tessellation interface)
01:33.58brlcadhas some pretty advanced remeshing parameters
01:34.22brlcadwhich are probably only used by the RhinoSDK but maybe not
01:35.25brlcadthe other is ON_MeshTopologyVertex and ON_MeshTopologyEdge and other similar classes that are basically nmg-style stitching connectivity
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03:53.21starseekerbrlcad: Yes.  What's not immediately clear to me (at least, not without more digging) is whether those *Topology* structures need to be manually created or whether they are deduced from an ON_Mesh via some routine
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03:04.19*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.8 posted (20090511) || GSoC2009 Next Step: upload your code to google, wait for shirt ;) thanks everyone!
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12:58.51``Erik<PROTECTED>
13:00.13Yoshi47cool
13:03.16Yoshi47``Erik, can i specify this as a x y z on point 3 for an arb6 "0 (.5+(tan19.9x.5)) 1.3125"
13:11.32brlcadnot with that syntax, but yeah you can
13:14.24``Erikif you say "0 [expr .5+tan(19.9)*.5]  1.3125" I think
13:15.13Yoshi47cool got to remember that
13:15.28``Erik(the square brackets mean "execute this command", expr means "compute this mathematical expression")
13:16.12Yoshi47ah
13:16.14Yoshi47thanks
13:16.25Yoshi47i'll try it on my next shape at break time
13:18.22``Erikand if you find yourself doing a series of commands frequently, you can make them into a single command using "proc {args} {body}"...
13:18.59Yoshi47i'll have to figure that one out
13:19.39``Erik*shrug* it's a possible next step for when ya feel ready
13:19.54Yoshi47ya, when i get bored! lol
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16:36.23brlcadalso, by default you'll have to escape the square brackets unless you turn off tcl eval mode (it's on the menu, or via "set glob_compat_mode 0")
16:37.03brlcadand i think tan takes radians, no? :)
16:40.33``Erikhrm, probably too late for lunch
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17:29.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Banger 07http://brlcad.org * r1613 10/wiki/User:466_buy_cialis:
17:36.40brlcadnever too late for lunch
17:39.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:466 buy cialis]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled, e-mail blocked): Spamming links to external sites
17:39.54CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:Banger]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled, e-mail blocked): Spamming links to external sites
17:45.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35837 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ (AttrGroupsDisplayUtility.tcl Makefile.am tclIndex): Added a bare bones utility for grouping and displaying objects by attribute.
19:15.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35838 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/fb_generic.c: Changed IF_RTGL to IF_OGL to expose ogl_interface.
19:19.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35839 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (archer/archer.bat mged/mged.bat util/rtwizard.bat): Update to version 7.15.0
19:44.13Yoshi47is there a way to turn off in wire frame mode the color specified in shader, i have a spacer that is white and it is hidden against my white background
19:45.49brlcadcommon problem, there is always some color that won't show up against a given background color
19:47.32Yoshi47why does the wireframe take the color from the shader? can we turn that off and make the wireframe a generic color? or i guess thats not preferrrable
19:49.05brlcadthere is a way to e/draw things up with a specified color, e -C #/#/#
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19:51.42brlcadin general, the wireframe color matches because users found it helps identify and segregate geometry
19:51.50brlcadespecially as the model gets more and more complex with hundreds/thousands of objects
19:51.51Yoshi47ya i agree
19:52.13Yoshi47just have to use another color while editing
19:52.16brlcadas there are conventioned color schemes used on some teams to make given systems a given color for easy identification
19:52.36brlcadfuel systems are always green, engine componenets are always red, etc
19:52.45Yoshi47ah
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20:05.13CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35840 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/CMakeLists.txt: typo, should be arbn not arb8
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20:38.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35841 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Expose bot_flip and bot_sync to Archer.
21:09.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35842 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/csgbrep.cpp: Whooops - free the NMG model explicitly created in csgbrep. Also, get set up for rhc testing.
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22:13.23``Erikahhh
22:27.49``ErikI'm... to sexy for my shirt... to sexy for my shirt...
22:28.04Yoshi477are you watching that...
22:28.13``Erikno, just got the urge to say that
22:28.21Yoshi477lol
22:28.32``Erik<-- is all sorts of messed up in the head
22:32.00``Erikmy dance was too sexy for him
22:32.02``Erikon the catwalk
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22:53.58``Erikhates doing gui work
22:55.23``Erikhum, xcode has cocoa stuff for python and ruby now O.o I don't recall adding any packages to support those... neat
23:00.22``Eriksomewhat annoying, the brown book is good for xcode 2.x, the websites are all about xcode3.x, and they're fairly different
23:04.09Yoshi477Warning:  region unioned into region at '/xslide.c/xslide_holddown_2.r', lower region info ignored
23:04.10Yoshi477Warning:  region unioned into region at '/xslide.c/xslide_holddown_2.r/washer_M8_.8.r', lower region info ignored
23:04.19Yoshi477why am i getting that?
23:09.49Yoshi477is that cuase i should add a region to a region but instead use comb
23:11.31``Erika region represents a physical object, if you follow the path down the tree, you should only ever see one region flag
23:11.46``Erikbelow the region is abstract shape data, so use combinations
23:11.58``Erikabove the region is a group of physical objects, so use assembly or part
23:12.01Yoshi477i thought so, ok i guess i got to redo my tree structure
23:12.40``Erikthe warnings are "you're doing something bad... we'll let you do it, but understand, it's bad."
23:13.33``Erikif, say, I have a big complex model with all the right materials and shaders, but I wanted to just turn it all glass or something to see through it, I could add it to a region with the glass shader to over-ride all the material information below, but that's... cheating the system :D
23:14.00``Erik"Here's a shotgun. We recommend you do not shoot it at your foot, but won't stop you."
23:14.33Yoshi477i like it
23:14.41Yoshi477but i'll obey the rules Sir
23:14.54``Erikshooting shotguns at your feet? *shrug* whatever makes ya happy, I spoze :D
23:15.29Yoshi477what if i didn't have feet would you feel bad?
23:15.46``Eriknot really, no
23:15.55``Erik:D
23:15.59Yoshi477lol
23:16.11``Erikprobably just means that someone had entrusted you with a shotgun at some point in the past
23:16.14``Erik:>
23:16.54``Erik(fairly sure there're pics of you standing in your gallery, so'z I'm guessing no one has felt the urge to hand you a firearm)
23:16.57``Erik;0
23:17.00``Erik:)
23:19.19Yoshi477could have fakies
23:19.35Yoshi477so you looked through my gallery did ya
23:20.57``Erika little
23:21.52Yoshi477so no comments you would like to spill out?
23:22.35``Eriknope, busy getting my dinner here
23:23.12``Erikah, you have uploaded to 'more', cool
23:23.58Yoshi477huh?
23:24.13``Erikhttp://more.brlcad.org has a bearing.g
23:24.28Yoshi477oh ya my tiny bearing
23:24.33``Erikyuh oh, bldg391 is most definitely not bldg391, unless 391 is the "big blue room"
23:25.54``Eriklooks in a mirror and says "brlcad" 3 times in a row to make him appear and fix this
23:25.59brlcadheh
23:26.13``Erikdamn
23:26.21``Erik"biggie smalls... biggie smalls... bi... uh..."
23:26.32louipcyeah how do you render the view from inside the sphere?
23:26.53``Erikah, wait, that might actually be bldg391, but rendered outside, yes
23:27.00brlcadit is
23:27.04Yoshi477im lost
23:27.12louipcmaybe you just need to cut away the half you don't want?
23:27.13``Erikthought it was the planet we have
23:27.38brlcadbldg391 has 19 top-level objects, the one rendered on the site looks like all.g which includes a sky sphere
23:28.04``Erikannotate the skysphere, and have the raytracer see that annotation and make sure the viewpoint is inside of the skysphere?
23:28.16``Erikdoes asc support attributes?
23:28.49brlcadjust have to make sure the eye is inside
23:28.53brlcadit's already a "shell"
23:28.57brlcadnot a solid sphere
23:29.31brlcadv5 asc definitely supports attributes, don't recall if that was added to v4 asc
23:30.01``Erikgiven that v4 was deprecated over a decade ago and we're close to v6, ... I frankly don't care :D
23:31.01``ErikI wouldn't mind if _export5() was renamed to export() and the old v4 loader was all moved into dbupgrade, myself O:-)
23:31.32``Erikdoesn't see any v3 loader code *shrug*
23:34.06brlcadgo for it :)
23:34.22brlcadall the *5() stuff should be s/5//
23:35.25Yoshi477can someone take a look at this and tell me im doing it wrong cause my head is fried, http://ej.nijenhuis.pixi.me/v/CAD/xslide_g.html
23:35.50Yoshi477B xslide.c
23:36.24``Erikpasting a url to a wrapper page instead of directly to the .g file == wrong :D
23:36.36Yoshi477you want the direct link
23:36.47Yoshi477http://ej.nijenhuis.pixi.me/d/2439-1/xslide_g?g2_GALLERYSID=8d870d26847034d67e6a9b58f984d434
23:37.03Yoshi477there fixed one of my mistakes
23:37.05``Eriknot so great to 'fetch' or 'wget' :)
23:37.23Yoshi477oh right i'll keep it in mind for the next time
23:38.16brlcadxslide.c shouldn't be a region
23:38.26Yoshi477isn't it a comb
23:38.32brlcadregions are combinations
23:38.38brlcadbut combinations are not necessarily regions
23:39.06Yoshi477oh analyze
23:39.16brlcadthink of a region as a homogenous "part" like you'd have in other cad systems
23:39.25brlcadyou don't put parts into parts, that's what assemblies are for
23:40.12Yoshi477and comb is used to make an assembly right?
23:40.14``Erik'comb' is the most general form
23:40.18brlcadyou have the right idea that naming-convention-wise, it's good to name your regions .r and your non-regions .c
23:40.32Yoshi477so all i have to do is change xslide.c into a comb
23:40.37``Erikshould parts and assemblies be .c ?
23:40.45brlcadright, you want to unset the region bit on it
23:40.47Yoshi477comb is the most general form? there more?
23:40.58Yoshi477and how may i pretell do that?
23:41.24brlcadadjust xslide.c region no
23:41.43``Erik(the combination editor has a checkbox for that)
23:41.46``Erikiirc
23:41.59Yoshi477oh there
23:42.02Yoshi477lol
23:42.16Yoshi477so about the advance assemblies?
23:42.35brlcadso if you "tree xslide.c", you'll see a /R after all the objects that are regions
23:43.02brlcadand at a glance, it looks like the rest are okay
23:43.16Yoshi477ya i analyzed them and it looks good to me
23:43.35brlcadlooks like you might have a few paths that have no regions
23:43.35Yoshi477im starting to like brlcad, lol
23:43.48``Erikmight wanna beat it with g_qa and g_lint
23:43.59Yoshi477``Erik, you lost me
23:44.07Yoshi477brlcad, paths?
23:44.13``Erikthey're programs, they look over your geometry to see if things are reasonably sane
23:44.22brlcadYoshi477: run "rtcheck" and wait a few seconds
23:44.32``Erikautomated tools to do what you're asking us to do for you :D
23:45.01brlcadthen spin the model a little, you'll see yellow lines where you have overlaps
23:45.12brlcadlooks like you have bolts overlapping bolts
23:45.14Yoshi477ah
23:45.18Yoshi477really
23:45.21Yoshi477were?
23:45.26Yoshi477i'll look
23:46.01brlcad17 unique overlapping objects detected
23:46.07``Erikthinks he will do the 4/5 brutality tomorrow morning
23:46.26Yoshi4770h i think i got a couple extra parts in there, i'll go through the tree and correct
23:46.30Yoshi477thanks for your help
23:46.38``Erikand bring in my brown book so I have a reason to disappear when the pitchforks and torches are handed out O.o
23:46.40Yoshi477whats 4/5 brutality?
23:47.00``Erikyoshi: ugly internal stuff that you should never notice as a 'mere mortal' user
23:47.17Yoshi477ok good
23:47.35``Erik(if anyone other than a low level developer realizes something changed, then I screwed up) :D
23:48.00brlcadit's where he gets brutally sodomized by only 4 out of 5
23:48.19``Erik4 out of 5 sodomizers agree that ...
23:50.26``Erikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTW9aHf--co hehehe
23:50.36brlcadwow, gqa's overlap reporting sucks compared to rtcheck
23:50.49``Erikg_qa has many deficiencies
23:51.11``Erik:/
23:51.14brlcadhas the same duplicate reporting bug I fixed in rtcheck like 6 years ago
23:51.27``Erikheh
23:51.47brlcaduselessly reports about 1000 overlaps on those 17 unique objects
23:52.39``ErikI'll hold him down while ya punch the crap out of him for that? :D
23:53.32Yoshi477im only a newbie, lol
23:54.08``Erikyoshi: I meant the author of g_qa, he works a couple buildings over from brlcad and me :)
23:54.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35843 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: make gqa overlap reporting suck less.
23:54.52Yoshi477oh
23:55.03brlcadYoshi477: yeah, the overlaps are pretty much expected from newbie modelers
23:55.10Yoshi477well i do deserver a beating for screwing up,
23:55.22``Eriknah, part of the learning curve
23:55.30Yoshi477overlaps most likely in my case means i multiple parts in the same area right?
23:55.36``Erikyes
23:55.37brlcadthere's a "new" tool that does a better job at reporting them.. but it's teh suck in terms of how it reports them out
23:55.50Yoshi477ah
23:55.58``Eriktwo regions occupying the same physical space, it doesn't make sense physically
23:57.08``Erikbut it's a common modelling error, either from bad or careless definition of geometry, from slop in tesselation, or *shrug* whatever else...
23:58.22``Erik(for example, I have an imported model from actual production, a removable item actually physically occupies the same space as the clip designed to hold it... and this is from the gurus... it happens, don't sweat it, just understand what it is :)
23:59.35brlcadYoshi477: it might help to work with objects by themselves at the region level, resolve any problems there, then go to the parent combination and resolve issues there and so on
23:59.42Yoshi477ah, man would it be a field trip to spend a day watching you guys.
23:59.57``Erikyes, my webcomic reading is legendary.
23:59.58Yoshi477brlcad, currently doing that
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090904

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090904

00:00.12Yoshi477xkcd?
00:00.12``Erikon the list
00:00.12Yoshi477nice
00:00.13brlcadfor example, if I walk down your object hierarchy, I see xslide_main.r in xslide.c
00:00.19Yoshi477pretty bad one wednesday though
00:00.22``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/~erik/comics/comic.php?nsfw=2
00:00.32``Erikthe 'tgi fridays' one?
00:00.33brlcadin xslide_main.r, I see an unexpected duplicately listed object name
00:00.40Yoshi477yeah
00:00.45``ErikI wasn't amused by it :/
00:00.51brlcadwhether intentional or not depends on your intent, but I'm betting it's a modeling mistake
00:00.52``ErikI'm guessing I didn't get the joke
00:01.16Yoshi477hover mouse over graphic? you know of?
00:01.19``Erikrandall doesn't bomb often at all
00:03.58Yoshi477brlcad, in xslide_holddown_1.c i have to - the flathead_M8x50.c in order to get rid of the overlaps?
00:04.09Yoshi477makes sense i guess
00:04.17Yoshi477i have to drill holes...
00:04.39Yoshi477thats what i didn't do is drill holes so the bolts are causing the overlaps
00:05.15``Erikwhen you actually seat a bolt in new metal, you have to drill it out... either to the outer diameter, or to the inner diameter and tap it...
00:05.37Yoshi477yep that did it
00:05.48Yoshi477funny mistake
00:06.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35844 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: aha, isolated yet another text-widget bug in the command window. mac specific binding.
00:09.40brlcadYoshi477: so now if you think about paths to regions, note that your bolt is not actually a region
00:09.44Yoshi477if i added this  u xslide_main.s
00:09.44Yoshi477<PROTECTED>
00:09.44Yoshi477<PROTECTED>
00:09.44Yoshi477<PROTECTED>
00:09.44Yoshi477<PROTECTED>
00:09.45Yoshi477<PROTECTED>
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00:09.53Yoshi477<PROTECTED>
00:09.58Yoshi477the last 4 lines
00:10.09Yoshi477that would tap them
00:10.50brlcadnormally you only want to subtract the *shapes* and not entire regions or combinations
00:10.57brlcader, assemblies
00:11.10brlcadsubtract the *shapes" and not entire regions or assemblies
00:11.31brlcadso before jumping off, go back to your xslide_holddown_1.c combination
00:11.47Yoshi477then i have to copy the bolt and reposition it in all places?
00:12.11Yoshi477yep im back
00:13.51brlcadso in that object, the first one referenced is xslide_holddown.r, which looks good to me .. it's just a bunch of primitives under it
00:13.59Yoshi477yep
00:14.06brlcadand that object is a region, seems okay so far
00:14.32Yoshi477i changed the slide_holddown.r to have a - that bolt
00:14.32brlcadnext object is flathead_M8x50.c
00:14.50brlcadso - flathead?
00:14.53Yoshi477yep
00:15.24brlcadokay, that's all good, then the next issue there then is that flathead_M8x50.c is a non-region combination
00:15.30brlcadwhich is perfect for subtraction
00:15.40brlcadbut you want a region to actually instantiate a bolt
00:16.01Yoshi477change the bolt to a region?
00:16.02brlcadso you should make a flathead region that just has one union for flathead_M8x50.c
00:16.05Yoshi477becuase its a part?
00:16.08brlcadno
00:16.13brlcadyes and no
00:16.20brlcadno because you're subtracting it somewhere as a shape
00:16.25brlcadand you should avoid subtracting regions
00:16.39Yoshi477ah
00:16.41brlcadso just make a new region combination that just has that one .c combination
00:17.12brlcaduse that instead of the .c in xslide_holddown_1.c
00:17.48brlcadyour last object (the bearings) look fine
00:17.53Yoshi477so r flathead_M8x50.r u flathead_M8x50.c
00:17.59brlcadyeah
00:18.14Yoshi477ok down
00:18.15brlcadthen change xslide_holddown_1.c to refer to the .r instead of the .c
00:18.19Yoshi477done*
00:18.42brlcadthat way, the "shape" is used in the subtraction (good) and the region is used in the assembly (great)
00:18.50Yoshi477ah
00:19.02Yoshi477so what about the holddownbearingasm
00:19.05brlcadnot having it be a region is technically a modeling error
00:19.40brlcadif you had INSTEAD made it a region and just renamed it to .r, that would have also worked and been fine for the assembly, but really bad practice for the subraction
00:19.59Yoshi477ok that makes sense kinda
00:20.57brlcadholddownbearingasm_1.c is apparently an assembly/group that refers to two objects -- another assembly/group (bearing_*.c) and a region (spacer*.r)
00:21.07Yoshi477yep
00:21.07brlcadthat bearing*.c has two regions in it, so you're good
00:21.10Yoshi477and a bolt to come
00:21.15brlcadpositive regions all the way down
00:21.29brlcadno overlaps
00:21.32Yoshi477nope
00:21.38Yoshi477rtcheck came out 0
00:22.13brlcadand there you can really see, if you run "tree"
00:22.23brlcadthere is just one region for any walk down that hierarchy
00:22.53brlcadno subtractions happening ABOVE the regions, also good
00:23.22Yoshi477ok
00:25.31Yoshi477whats the best way to subtract the flat bolts from xslide_main.r do i have to duplicate the flat*.c where i want the holes?
00:27.34Yoshi477i also had an extra xslide_main.s in there
00:28.32brlcadyep, saw the extra
00:28.55brlcadyou don't have to duplicate flat*.c
00:29.01Yoshi477when i get rid of it the hex bolts aren't overlapping with the main now?
00:29.02brlcadit's a shape
00:29.21brlcadso you can just keep subtracting that same shape where you want
00:29.31brlcadyou'll just apply a translation on each one being subtracted to put them into place
00:29.52Yoshi477ok i got to think for a sec
00:30.47Yoshi477so since i have to do that i mine as well create a rcc since that won't be tapped any ways and then make 2 rcc and sub them from main
00:31.09brlcadyou can make combs for each subtraction that just has one u flat*.c and then move each comb into place, or use clone to make all N of them at once
00:31.34brlcadwhat you said should work too
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00:31.52brlcadsubtracted shapes that are simpler are better anyways
00:31.53Yoshi477i mine as well drill them out since thats what im going to do in real life
00:32.06Yoshi477yep less code
00:32.27brlcadhave it exactly subtracted would be a "tight fit" and generally make serious hell to the tessellator on export
00:32.47Yoshi477i'll make it a thou bigger
00:33.12Yoshi477im not going to export anyways
00:33.18Yoshi477but its good to know
00:34.01brlcad"perfect" fits can also cause rendering problems for some obscure cases like the subtle dots on your bearing
00:34.12Yoshi477ah
00:34.14Yoshi477ok
00:34.33brlcadas the hardware can't calculate perfectly, and it's not physically accurate regardless
00:34.55brlcadeven two sheets of paper on top of each other have a little bit of "air" between them
00:35.52Yoshi477yep
00:36.08brlcadunless it's something chemically bonded or welded, there's a gap, so good to capture that with a minute tolerance
00:36.29brlcadour default calculation tolerance is 0.0005mm
00:36.39brlcadwhich is practical only to about 1/1000th of a mm
00:36.54brlcadcloser to 1/100 of a mm for some operations
00:37.05Yoshi477cool
00:45.38Yoshi477so i can just subtract this thread_8_30_1.25_0.67625_24.c from xslide_main.r for my taps?
00:49.39Yoshi477can i say this in the comb editor  - thread_8_30_1.25_0.67625_24.c rot 90 0 0 tra .5 1 3 ?
00:49.49Yoshi477or how does that work
01:22.57Yoshi477off to bed cya
01:30.15brlcada good practice would be to make something like: g thread_hole_0.c thread_8_30_1.25_0.67625_24.c
01:31.08brlcadthen subtract the thread_hole_0.c from xslide_main.r, comb xslide_main.r - thread_hole0.c
01:31.39brlcadapply a matrix edit: oed /xslide_main.r thread_hole0.c/path/to/primitive
01:31.45brlcadrot 90 0 0
01:31.49brlcadtra .5 1 3
01:31.51brlcadaccept
01:32.03brlcadcp thread_hole0.c thread_hole1.c
01:32.24brlcadcomb xslide_main.r - thread_hole1.c
01:32.38brlcadoed /xslide_main.r thread_hole1.c/path/to/prim
01:32.42brlcad.. etc
01:33.07brlcador make the pattern with clone, put them into a comb, subtract that comb
01:40.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35845 10/brlcad/trunk/src/liboptical/shade.c: sanity check for non-null shadework structure
01:44.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35846 10/brlcad/trunk/src/liboptical/shade.c: minor style ws consistency cleanup
01:44.22starseekergrowls in frustration... why isn't csgbrep happy on gentoo????
01:44.52starseekerWriting an ARB4 (via NMG) brep...
01:44.52starseekerm_object_table[0].m_object->IsValid() = false.
01:44.52starseeker<PROTECTED>
01:44.52starseeker<PROTECTED>
01:44.59starseekerfails immediately
01:45.12starseekermust still have some stuff not being freed correctly...
01:47.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35847 10/brlcad/trunk/src/liboptical/shade.c: odd func escaped de-k&nrification
01:57.14``Erik*readreadread* is there any preference for a single big unioned cutter vs a bunch of simple cutters? mebbe with nmg conversion?
02:06.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35848 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: make sure the functab methods are non-null before calling them. ran into ft_uv nullity during rt -k shot.
02:18.50starseekerhrm.  even a single arb4 fails...
02:33.57*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=Matthew@d24-141-28-249.home.cgocable.net)
02:37.13talcitehey guys. What's the tool to use for signal processing?
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03:24.28*** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@69.172.102.119)
08:55.37brlcadtalcite_: depends what you need, there are lots of them that do different things
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10:54.05d-lobrlcad:  I dunno which building to go to this morning!
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11:32.44d-lolol.  Quote from the interwebs:  Today, I decided that I want to be a ninja when I grow up. I Googled "Ninja School" to see where I can be professionally trained in the art. I followed a link that said Ninja School, and the page could not be found. Well played Ninja School. You really are a professional.
11:43.29Yoshi47lol
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15:48.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35849 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/ (dm-ogl.c dm-wgl.c): No longer enabling two sided lighting.
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17:15.47``Erik*nap*
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18:14.09pombredahowdy :-)
18:14.09pombredais there some way to convert SLDASM and SLDPRT SolidWorks files to BRL-CAD?
18:21.50pombredahttp://brlcad.org/w/images/6/66/Converting_Geometry.pdf seems to provide some clue and http://brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html lets me think that there is no support yet.
18:21.57pombredacorrect?
18:24.57pombredawell I'll come back later... need to run away like a bandit. shoot, the channel does not seemed logged
18:25.04pombredais there a log?
18:27.20pombredabbl :)
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19:31.34kanzureDoes anyone know of an open source assembly planner?
19:32.20pombredaback :-) ... any answer to "(11:14:03) pombreda: is there some way to convert SLDASM and SLDPRT SolidWorks files to BRL-CAD?" ?
19:33.20kanzureuse solidworks to export to a reasonable format
19:42.10pombredakanzure: thx :-) I am such a noob !
19:45.27kanzureare you?
19:46.33pombredakanzure: I sure am :-
19:46.56pombredakanzure: at least when it comes to cad and 3d modelling ;-)
19:47.20pombredakanzure: what would that reasonable format be?
19:51.07kanzurestep, iges
19:52.53pombredacurtsies to kanzure
19:52.57pombredamuch thx
19:53.36brlcadhello pombreda and yes, you are correct that there is not yet support for native solidworks files
19:53.44brlcadbut there is support for various formats that solidworks exports
19:54.00brlcad~logs
19:54.01ibotAll conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged.
19:54.29pombredabrlcad: awesome
19:56.54louipc<PROTECTED>
20:10.27pombredabrlcad: it would be good to have publi info about the log: http://ibot.rikers.org/#brlcad
20:10.59pombredafirst some people do not like being loggedd, so it is usually cool to put a chanserv msg about the logging when someone enters
20:11.14pombredaand  second this is mighty useful :-)
20:12.34*** topic/#brlcad by pombreda -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.8 posted (20090511) || GSoC2009 Next Step: upload your code to google, wait for shirt ;) thanks everyone! || log at http://ibot.rikers.org/#brlcad
20:13.00pombredabrlcad: done in the topic, if that works for you: that shoud be good enough  :-)
21:07.44*** join/#brlcad akafubu (n=akafubu@unaffiliated/akafubu)
21:26.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35850 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: Update comments.
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21:39.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35851 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Add initial work on rhc->brep
21:42.33Yoshi477what the status on BREP in brlcad, how much of it is there?
21:43.01brlcad64.7%
21:43.13Yoshi477nice
21:43.35Yoshi477is that a real number?
21:44.32brlcadpombreda: it's in the topic from time to time, and I'm not at all really concerned about folks that don't like being logged
21:44.40``Erikyes, it's even rational
21:44.49pombredabrlcad: :-)
21:45.10brlcadpeople need to get over it, anyone in a channel could be logging you at any time and posting their log somewhere with/without your permission
21:45.15brlcadit's effectively a public space
21:45.44brlcadfails the reasonable expectation of privacy test
21:46.46brlcadYoshi477: of course it is a real number.  cuarytoteen would be a fake number.
21:47.23Yoshi477ok is that a number you pulled from you project planner?
21:48.48``Erikhad no idea that brlcad's ass was the project planner O.o suddenly want on a different project :D *duck*
21:50.00brlcadYoshi477: easiest to say that raytracing is pretty much complete (which was the hardest problem), leaving tessellation, format conversion, and import/export
21:50.17brlcadah, and editing eventually, but that's not even being considered at the moment
21:51.01brlcadall three of those (tess, conversion, and import/export via step) are being worked actively now
21:51.24Yoshi477i guess i don't know the full meaning of brep then, am i using it right now? i thought i was only using CSG
21:54.49louipcbrlcad: so you wouldn't be annoyed if you found out that a conversation you had in a park was secretly taped?
21:55.38brlcadtechnically, the wireframe representation is a form of unevaluated brep, just not a very useful one
21:55.49brlcadbut no, you're not using it
21:55.54Yoshi477ah
21:56.05Yoshi477so, next release?
21:56.10Yoshi477example?
21:56.52brlcadlouipc: not particularly
21:58.00brlcadnot to say I'd be happy about it, but I have little to no basis to assume I'm not being taped
21:58.16brlcad(by an individual, I'd be furious if it was a government agency at any level)
21:58.27louipcheheh
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21:59.48louipchah the gov will eavesdrop on private spaces
21:59.50brlcadit's just like having one's picture taken in public .. you don't have to like it but you also have no claim to not be photographed
22:02.03brlcadthat's pretty universal at least under US law and at least for non-exploitative use, even extending to photography of children for example (there's a photography "bill of rights" that covers most of these points regarding imagery at least)
22:03.28louipcdoesn't mean you'll enjoy being followed around by cameras
22:04.51brlcadsure, just nothing you can do about it (when you're in public)
22:05.46brlcadto the point here, though, I always laugh when I hear someone say they're concerned about logging on *IRC* of all things .. where most people are logging whether they know it or not
22:06.21brlcadi have almost every message logged that I've ever written or seen on irc covering like a decade or more of chatter
22:07.55brlcadinsecure network with untrustable clients with automatic logging for most of them on what are generally considered public channels, and they have a problem being logged .. hilarious :)
22:08.48``Erik(probably more the public posting than the actual logging...)
22:09.05louipcyea in case they say something stupid
22:09.23louipcor personal hah
22:10.01brlcadpoint still stands .. insecure net, untrustable clients.  they're walking around downtown holding up a sign that says "don't take my picture"
22:11.59louipchow about those guys with cameras in their shoes?
22:12.16``Erikwhat, japan? :D *duck*
22:12.23louipchahah what?
22:15.24brlcadyeah, that actually went to the court in the US, and the guy got off not-guilty for taking pics up girl's skirts at a local fairground
22:16.04brlcadbecause they were outside in a public place, ruled that they had no expectation of privacy
22:16.52brlcad(not saying that one is "right", but it certainly reinforces the expectation of privacy test)
22:48.39*** join/#brlcad pombreda (n=pombreda@dev.nexb.us)
23:59.14Yoshi477is there an ls command to show only the objects currently drawn
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090905

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090905

00:02.46``Erikprobably
00:03.00``Erikpulls up source and kinda hopes someone who knows more than he does answers before he gets too far into it... :D
00:07.11``Erik(CTJ .. is that... paladin?)
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00:08.49``Erikhrm, too much name overlap, makes grep tricky :(
00:13.13Yoshi477does rtcheck make shapes?
00:13.31Yoshi477soemthing keeps making copies of shapes with _01
00:14.13Yoshi477or does oed cause that?
00:15.12``Erikrtcheck shouldn't alter anything, oed shouldn't generate anything new if you don't ask it to, I think?
00:15.16``Erik<-- doesn't know the gui... :D
00:15.31Yoshi477this is command line stuff
00:15.50``ErikI see where the display list is held, now to see if there's something to walk it and return it as a string... O.o heh
00:16.10``Erikum, I don't know much about mged.... if you wanna talk rt or something, or library stuff, I'm there... :D
00:16.22Yoshi477ah ok
00:16.53Yoshi477backend coder, i wish sometimes i could be one, and others not so much
00:18.10``ErikI suppose 'backend' is one way to refer to what I do... I kinda think of myself as more of a system developer... :D closer to the hardware than the user interface... I get my jollies when I get to poke at operating system kernel code :D
00:19.13``ErikI'm not seeing anything that looks like a command to print the display list :/ but I might just be missing it
00:20.20``Erikah, wait, looks like there's a duplicate list held in tcl
00:21.07``Erikhrmph. mged isn't working on my laptop here :(
00:21.20Yoshi477what!
00:21.26Yoshi477you should be ashamed!
00:21.32``Erikbut the 'Display' tcl class has a method called "contents" that might be what you're looking for
00:21.40Yoshi477ok i'll try
00:21.48Yoshi477invalid
00:21.56Yoshi477or is it ls contents
00:21.59``Erikyou have to refer to the instance of display
00:22.20Yoshi477and how my i pretell do that?
00:23.08``Erikstill looking
00:23.21``Erikjabs brlcad or starseeker with something pointy to see if they know
00:24.28``Erikmeh, there're like 3 definitions of 'display list' that confuse things heh :(
00:24.44brlcad'who' shows what is currently drawn
00:24.47Yoshi477well i cause patience plays in here
00:24.54Yoshi477oh
00:25.22Yoshi477what about the individual prims?
00:25.53``Erikthose'd be the things in the display lists
00:28.45brlcadYoshi477: curious that you'd want or need to know the individual prims
00:28.50brlcadbut you can find those with search
00:28.56Yoshi477is there a command to like where used? so enter prim and you get what assemblies it is used in?
00:28.57brlcadsearch whatever -not -type c
00:29.11``Erikbrlcad: ones in the active display list?
00:29.40brlcaddbfind locates uses
00:30.54``Erik(I see where src/tclscripts/lib/Display.tcl defines a "contents" method in the Display class, how do you invoke that from inside of mged?)
00:31.05Yoshi477likes dbfind
00:37.14brlcad``Erik: tclscripts/lib/* is archer guts
00:37.35``Erikohhhhhh, ok
00:37.36brlcador at least old archer guts, some might not be active any longer
00:37.46``ErikI saw some in libged and some in tclscripts
00:37.48brlcadtclscripts/mged is mged guttage
00:38.18``Erik(dead code culling might be a good offsite, too)
00:38.48brlcadit's not used by us, but is used by s2
00:39.05brlcador at least *might* not be by us, but definitely by them
00:39.05Yoshi477s2?
00:39.23brlcadYoshi477: one of various software projects that links against brl-cad libs
00:39.36Yoshi477opensource?
00:39.40brlcadnope
00:39.43Yoshi477ah
00:39.47brlcadthere are lots of analysis codes that use br-cad
00:39.50Yoshi477can i ask what it does
00:40.07Yoshi477mainly?
00:40.25``Erikchews up cpu and keeps button mashers employed
00:40.41brlcadit calculates vulnerability and lethality by performing high-energy ballistic penetration simulations
00:40.51Yoshi477cool
00:41.10Yoshi477so how many hours a day do you code for brlcad?
00:41.17brlcad24? :)
00:41.25brlcadokay, 18
00:41.30Yoshi477really?
00:41.35brlcadgotta eat n' sleep some to sustain
00:41.45Yoshi47718?
00:41.50Yoshi477you get paid 18 too!
00:42.09``Erikbullshit, you code bzflag, too
00:42.11``Erik:D
00:42.11brlcadit fluctuates
00:42.28brlcadyeah, not just brl-cad, a few other open source projects too
00:42.34``Erikis libirc dead? heh
00:42.36Yoshi477i played bzflag for about a week 2 years ago
00:42.44brlcad``Erik: nope, it's just "done" for now
00:43.03``Erikaight, haven't heard of it being used and commits seem very infrequent
00:43.04Yoshi477so the army pays you for every hour you put in?
00:43.15brlcadheck no
00:43.26Yoshi477anything?
00:43.36``Erikthe paperwork to bill more than 80 hours a fortnight would be insane
00:43.38``Erik:D
00:46.04``Eriknever underestimate the insanity of gov't bureaucracy O.o
00:46.27``Erikthe trick is to do what you wanna do and figure out how to get someone to pay you for it
00:46.38brlcadYoshi477: when one enjoys what they do, it doesn't really matter much
00:46.50Yoshi477true
00:47.48``Erik(have I mentioned that I hate gui coding lately?)
00:47.54Yoshi477nope
00:48.20Yoshi477i love gui coding, if i can do it? need lots of training for my small mind
00:48.32``Erikheh, sure, do ya do mac stuff?
00:48.40``ErikI have a side project that I think needs a gui
00:48.47``Erik:D
00:48.51Yoshi477nope don't have a mac just linux
00:48.53``Erikhrm
00:49.02Yoshi477know some qt stuff but not much
00:49.10Yoshi477some xul stuff
00:49.12``ErikI happen to have qt installed on my mac
00:49.41Yoshi477whats the side pro?
00:50.04``Erikum, ya familiar with internet radio? shoutcast/icecast stuff?
00:50.18Yoshi477not much but i know what it is
00:50.24Yoshi477never use it
00:50.36``ErikI want a decent source client that I can modify
00:50.45Yoshi477ah
00:50.54``Erik'muse' is a piece of shit (linux app with a halfassed carbon addon), nicecast is closed source
00:51.11``Erikand those're pretty much the only two that work on the mac :/
00:51.16Yoshi477ah
00:51.29Yoshi477so you need to find a qt one
00:51.43``Erikwell, I'd prefer cocoa, but *shrug*
00:51.58``ErikI was running around the office looking for a cocoa book yesterday heh
00:53.07``Erikbut qt has a native osX port, iirc, so I can't hate on it too much, even if it's c++
00:53.15``Erikgtk+ requires X :(
00:53.31Yoshi477you like gtk better then qt?
00:53.38``Erikcode wise, yes
00:53.44Yoshi477main reason...
00:53.52``ErikI went from loving c++ to hating it in '96 or so
00:54.10Yoshi477what did you replace it with?
00:54.11``Erikit's ugly, excessively verbose, ambiguous, ... (or was in 96 or so...)
00:54.12``ErikC
00:54.27Yoshi477oh even more low level
00:54.45``ErikI can cope with things like function pointers and "advanced" cpp macros...
00:54.50``Erikhm, I'd disagree
00:55.01Yoshi477oh ok
00:55.15Yoshi477i wouldn't know just had basic tutorials on both of them
00:55.43``Erikc++ was dandy if you have to deal with mediocre developers on the team... java takes that role now... if you have a group of competent folk, c++ and java just get in the way, imnsho :)
00:55.50Yoshi477got my level 1 c++ in college thats about it
00:56.11``Erik*sing* anything you can do, I can do better... :D
00:56.33``Erik(early c++ was actually a macro package for C, iirc)
00:56.42``Erikcalled "c with classes" or something
00:56.56``Erikalan kay has an interesting rant on the subject :)
00:57.26Yoshi477ya i knew that,
00:57.28``Erik(he 'invented' object oriented... his observation is that bjarne missed the point)
00:57.46Yoshi477oh well i don't get that stuff that much anyways my head hurts anytime i go into it deep
00:57.48``Erikobjc is sexy is a strange way, though
00:58.06``ErikI'm annoyed at the inability to collapse messages, though
00:58.25Yoshi477see i don't even get that!
00:58.51``Erik-(void)alpha; -(void)beta:(int)i; ... I should be able to [obj alph beta:10] in my mind, but I have to [obj alpha]; [obj beta:10];
00:59.03``Erikknow whut ah mean, vern?
00:59.06Yoshi477ya you lost me
00:59.20Yoshi477way beyond my comprehension
00:59.26``Erikum, message based OO systems .. :) smalltalk ftw
00:59.56``Erik[obj method]; is the objC version of obj.method();
01:00.30``Erik(vs the CLOS "(method obj)")
01:01.21``Erikyes, I'm a language nerd... this is the stuff that interests me, gui's are unfun :D *duck*
01:01.26Yoshi477see you lost me since i haven't use c++ qt since the spring and 2 years before that, i goes out of my mind fast, but im fine with that, got to learn brlcad and then when im done designing my CNC i can continue with FANO
01:01.47Yoshi477FaNO
01:02.26``Erikfano?
01:02.43``Erikan overloaded word according to the almighty g00g
01:03.07``Erika guitar company, a town in italy, a district in austria, ...
01:03.15Yoshi477Food and Nutritional Organizer
01:03.36Yoshi477something like fitday
01:03.45Yoshi477but cross platform
01:03.53Yoshi477and ability to export stuff!
01:04.28``Erikhum
01:04.41``Eriksimilar to http://nut.sf.net ?
01:05.24``Erikcli, but works on *nix and dos
01:06.09``Erikhas been learning common lisp and 'ucw' (and ajax, javascript, css, etc) with the intent of making a web variant
01:06.14Yoshi477ya, but mine has recipe manager built in
01:06.28``Erikheh
01:06.30``Erikamusing
01:06.33Yoshi477and mine a GUI(qt)
01:06.52``Erik<-- thinks he had pretty much the same idea, but decided web was better as a user interface layer
01:07.01Yoshi477mainly going to have recipe first(doesn't suit name at first but it will)
01:07.20``Erikthey say great minds think alike, I guess the correlary is that feeble ones do, as well ;)
01:08.15``ErikI did a fair bit of whiteboard work to come up with ways to come up with targetted recipe recommendation lists based on what ingredients you have available, what your nutritional requirements are, and what your personal preferences are
01:08.44``Erik(and trying to figure out how to maintain a 'pantry' database without being invasive or difficult)
01:09.13``Erikoohhhhhhh, I saw this on hn a bit ago... http://recipepuppy.com/  neat stuff :)
01:09.31``Erika bit meta, but neat
01:10.07Yoshi477oh watch it google's going to buy that site
01:10.22``Erikheh, that'd be cool, the dude would get his payout
01:10.31Yoshi477yep
01:11.12``Erikd'no if google has any interest in the cooking world...
01:12.09``Erikwhen I visited, I got an impression of a culture that viewed food as a 'below them' aspect, the free cafeterias, "snack stations", and interest in going out to eat
01:13.24Yoshi477free cafe? they have it too good
01:14.15``Erik(mebbe the cafeterias were free for the gsoc mentors as a special deal... but when I visited nvidia, the cafeteria/catering was free)
01:14.50Yoshi477nvidia is own by google?
01:14.58``Erikno
01:16.05``ErikI visited nvidia in '01, google in '08
01:16.40Yoshi477oh
01:17.06``Erikwhen I worked at fedex, we had free tea, coffee, popcorn, etc... and vending machines where tv dinners were like a buck
01:23.16Yoshi477cool
01:23.26Yoshi477i would be even fatter!
01:24.02``Erikheh, I gained like 50 pounds
01:24.09Yoshi477ouch
01:24.15``Erikand I'm a little dude
01:24.24Yoshi477ya i have no will power when it comes to food
01:25.56``Erikgraduated college at ~135 (~60kg), boomed up to 180(~80kg) pretty quick, drifting around 150-160(~69-72kg) now
01:26.27``Erikand I'm only 5'8(147cm)
01:26.37``Erik:D
01:27.54louipcI gained like 10lbs when I was in taiwan for a month haha
01:28.04Yoshi477grad 150lbs college 1 year later 180, college 2year after grad 190, greenhouse work for .5 year 185 IT Support/Systems Support Analyst Job 3.5 year after grad 210, now 195 hovering
01:28.11Yoshi477lowest in 3 years was 184
01:28.13louipceverybody kept shoving food in my face
01:28.29``ErikI think quitting soda was a big win for me
01:28.34Yoshi477yep me too
01:28.51Yoshi477quiting most sugars helps, and also six pack abs challenge!
01:29.04louipc:O
01:29.52``Erikheh
01:30.38``Eriksee, I quit drinking soda, but I drink a fair amount of beer, and like my big greaseburger and fries at lunch... and a major aversion to physical exertion, so I'm not exactly.... 'fit' :D
01:31.25``Erikmonitoring intake using 'nut' has changed my choices in food a fair bit, though... *shrug* mortifying looking at what ya actually shovel into your body
01:33.00Yoshi477i know what you mean
01:38.13Yoshi477yeah finally got all my overlaps delt with!
01:39.43brlcadwoo hoo
01:40.32Yoshi477hey brlcad if i had 6 of those hex bolts in my window wireframe would that slow down the rotation and zoom in and out, or is it just a problem on my machine?
01:42.04Yoshi477maybe i need a quadro?
01:42.11Yoshi4775400
01:42.14Yoshi477lol
01:42.34brlcaddepends just how complicated the geometry is, how many objects, how many segments, your video card, whether it's x11 or ogl, etc
01:42.45brlcadin general, no it shouldn't really, but certainly could
01:43.00brlcadespecially with a lot of deep copies (from clone) instead of references
01:43.37Yoshi477one sec
01:45.01Yoshi477here try it out http://ej.nijenhuis.pixi.me/d/2441-1/sweetspot_g?g2_GALLERYSID=8d870d26847034d67e6a9b58f984d434
01:45.04Yoshi477B sweetspot.c
01:45.10``Erikquatro will not help you
01:45.19Yoshi477really?
01:45.35Yoshi477a gaming card better
01:45.45``ErikglLine is not really any faster on even a good GL card than a simple svga card
01:46.04Yoshi477i guess i don't know
01:46.06``ErikopenGL does not really buy BRL-CAD any speed at the moment
01:46.19brlcadgetting a few fps here
01:46.39Yoshi477im at .82
01:46.40``Erik% delta?
01:47.20Yoshi477.74 when zooming
01:47.46``Erikcrap, it's september, isn't it
01:47.48Yoshi477GeForce 8500 GT
01:47.50Yoshi477yep it is
01:47.58``Erik2 months of paperwork :(
01:48.25Yoshi477paperwork for what? two month to go?
01:48.47``Erikgotta write up reports on what I have done and what I intend to do
01:49.06Yoshi477for the two summer months or it will take you two months
01:49.56Yoshi477don't you keep svn with ci -m" everytime you can just concat those and your done!
01:50.11``Erikprobably about ten hours of real work, but the annoyance kills time like a mofo, so 2 months of dev is blown
01:50.37Yoshi477ah
01:50.44``Erikyes, the svn logs are an important part, extracting pertinant data from it is a hassle
01:51.16``ErikI can't say "svn log -user erikgreenwald -dates 200810010000:200909312359"
01:51.26``Erikthe 'user' part is the bitch
01:51.27Yoshi477why not
01:51.48``Erikit's not an option in svn
01:52.01``Erik(unless I'm missing it)
01:52.02Yoshi477when you add a cooment you should put erik:your comment then you can easily
01:52.33``Erikbut when I leave a comment, I comment on what I did, not who I am...
01:52.42Yoshi477you can do both
01:53.01Yoshi477that way you get it out of svn
01:53.10``Erikgimmea  time machine so I can go back a year and inform myself to encode user information superfluously in the log message.
01:53.13``Erik:D
01:53.15Yoshi477thats what i do at work for my task logs
01:53.36Yoshi477time machine only work for future
01:53.39``ErikI got data, it ain't got that encoding, I gotta generate info...
01:53.50``Erikso, y'kow,
01:53.53``Erikknow
01:53.58Yoshi477gives shotgun to ``Erik
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01:56.26Yoshi477wait a minute
01:56.36Yoshi477don't you svn commit under your username
01:56.59``Erikyes, I do
01:57.01``Erikthat's my issue
01:57.11Yoshi477why is that your issue?
01:57.42``ErikI don't believe that svn log has any username filter
01:58.19Yoshi477well we use redmine at work and when i use the svn cli after that i go to the svn section in redmine and it has what user did what commit!
01:58.21``Erikdorks with it, sees a 'username' global option and may soon have egg on his fcea
01:59.03``Erikno, even specifying the username, it gives me all deltas
01:59.03Yoshi477so ya found it?
01:59.16Yoshi477deltas?
01:59.55``Erikyeah, --username seems to be ignored in log O.o
01:59.59``Erikeffin' r-tarded
02:00.10Yoshi477umm i wonder how redmine does it
02:01.43Yoshi477yep i am looking at it right now under repository in redmine i can see who the author is of the latest revision
02:03.14starseeker``Erik: does this help?  http://svn.haxx.se/users/archive-2005-02/0738.shtml
02:04.14Yoshi477well im off for the nite, cya later
02:04.27``Erikhasta, yoshi
02:04.38``Erikstarseeker: why can't svn do this by itself?
02:04.59``Erikit has a fucking --username argument, why the fuck doens't it fucking work? goddamn piece of sit
02:05.02``Erikshit
02:05.26``Erik"lets do cvs, but better! oh, wait, lets take all the fuckups of cvs and MAKE THEM WORSE! YES! TEH WINZ!"
02:05.32``Erik:D
02:06.00``Erikeyeballs darcs some
02:06.08brlcadthat's the username to use to log in
02:06.25brlcadfor rev in `svn log configure.ac | grep erik | awk '{print $1}'` ; do svn log -$rev configure.ac ; done
02:06.29``Erikdamnit, don't de-rail my drunken rant
02:07.34Yoshi477lol
02:07.38Yoshi477ok im gone now
02:08.02``Erikhasta
02:08.13louipcerm --username is meant for authentication, not filtering
02:33.49starseeker``Erik: could you import our repository into git?  would that help?
02:34.08starseekerhttp://www.metaskills.net/2009/2/1/git-subversion-user-commit-reports
02:39.21louipcheehee :D
02:40.08louipcI would have said that, but brlcad would accuse me of preaching.
02:50.57``Erikstarseeker: ur m0m
03:30.56starseeker``Erik: eh?
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11:59.16ThingymebobMake fails, can anyone help http://pastebin.com/d58247d7f
12:02.06``Erikthe actual failure seems to be omitted
12:02.10``Erik?
12:03.18Thingymebob``Erik: My error, It just hung at that point, back to life now
12:04.08``Erikif there is a failure in there, ya might try re-running configure with "--enable-all"
12:04.39``Erikthe tcl/tk check probably needs some lovin' to make sure the system variant is recent enough :/
12:43.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r35852 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/surfaceintersect.cpp:
12:43.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: Fixed illegal coersions of ON_BezierCurves * into ON_Curve * which was causing
12:43.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: segfaults. WalkIntersection now returns its result as an ON_NurbsCurve cast as
12:43.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: an ON_Curve instead of as ON_BezierCurves, the curves are still identical
14:46.03``Erikteh fux? a billy mays commercial? heh
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16:28.16kanzurehi all
16:28.26kanzureanyone know of any open source assembly planner?
16:38.17``Erikthat sounds... awfully specialized?
16:45.01``Erikhuh, this tv show thinks the bismark was scuttled
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17:26.16kanzureis there a way to figure out the regions in a dot g file? is there a shell utility that will list them for me?
17:27.16brlcadmged -c test.g search / -type r
17:27.53kanzureinvalid command name "search"
17:28.10brlcadyour version is too old
17:28.22kanzure7.8 ?
17:28.42brlcadwow, that is ancient
17:28.55kanzurethat's what's on the download page
17:29.05kanzuregets the svn version
17:29.12brlcadbinary platforms aren't updated very frequently (you
17:29.20brlcad(you're more than welcome to provide an update)
17:29.53kanzureokay
17:30.36kanzuremaybe I should just ask before I bother, but,
17:30.46kanzureI'm trying to convert from DXF to STEP or IGES. is this going to happen?
17:31.04kanzureHeeksCAD doesn't seem to do it at all, so I'm trying brlcad
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17:43.00Yoshi477kanzure, you can get a 30day trial from varicad
17:45.53brlcaddepends on what is in the dxf file, but you should be able to run dxf-g and g-iges to convert
17:45.53brlcadwe don't have a step exporter yet
17:46.33Yoshi477kanzure, or you can upload and someone here might offer to do it for you
17:47.39kanzurehttp://adl.serveftp.org/belt-clamp.3d.DXF that would be awesome :)
17:47.47Yoshi477i'll give it a shot
17:49.03kanzurethank you :)
17:50.18brlcadwhat is in that dxf?
17:50.28Yoshi477i only got a 2d profile of something
17:51.08kanzureit's supposedly a 3d model
17:51.16brlcadyeah, export of non-solid entities isn't going to fly
17:51.21kanzurewhen I open it up in HeeksCAD, it's a "3d sketch" whatever the hell that is
17:51.24kanzurehrm
17:51.32kanzurewell the other option here is for me to extrude an svg file
17:51.37kanzureheekscad crashes when attempting to do that, however
17:51.40Yoshi477one sec
17:51.43kanzure(there's a common theme)
17:51.45Yoshi477my varicad might not be expired
17:52.04kanzurethe svg is located here: http://contraptor.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/contraptor/tags/contraptor-1.5.0/components/belt-clamp/
17:52.25brlcadyeah, it is a 3d sketch .. that's just a planar object
17:52.35kanzuregrr
17:52.41kanzurethe author made it originally in google sketchup
17:52.47kanzurewhich is completely useless as far as I'm concerned
17:53.47Yoshi477varicad imported it as a 2d just like brlcad did, are you sure its a 3d file?
17:54.01kanzureno not at all
17:54.01brlcadit's not a valid extrusion sketch
17:54.03kanzurecan it be extruded?
17:54.07kanzurehm
17:54.10Yoshi477yeah
17:54.25brlcadi extruded it in brl-cad, but it's got non-closed loops
17:54.26Yoshi477but it look like there is a gear on the one side
17:54.39kanzurehmph.
17:54.45kanzuremaybe this isn't worth our time
17:54.48kanzuresorry to bug you guys
17:54.55Yoshi477np
17:55.06Yoshi477kinda was curious to see the 3d
17:55.09kanzure"contraptor" is an "open hardware" project that has dimensions/specs for various components like beams and angled brackets
17:55.19Yoshi477ah
17:55.20kanzurebut since it doesn't provide any usable CAD models, screw it
17:55.29kanzurewhat's the point?
17:55.34kanzurewhy would you put effort into something completely unusable
17:55.42kanzuream I missing something?
17:56.09kanzureanyway, I was asking earlier today about writing an assembly planner
17:56.13kanzurewas wondering if anyone in here has experience with those
17:57.17Yoshi477nope
17:57.27Yoshi477but i work with people who use pro/e
17:57.34kanzuredoes pro/e do that?
17:57.56kanzureassembly planners are used to generate instructions and sequences of operations for physically moving around parts to a CAD model to make it happen in the shop
17:58.08kanzuresometimes spitting out human readable instructions
17:58.12kanzuresometimes spitting out robot crap
17:58.40Yoshi477oh, i think it does that but they don
17:58.42Yoshi477t use it
17:58.47kanzurethe trick though is somehow avoiding order n**2 collision detection between all of the parts
17:59.17kanzure(to check for collision-free insertion motions)
18:00.47Yoshi477what would boost the usage of brlcad would be integrated g-code exporter
18:01.13kanzureyeah I can't read g-code much heh
18:01.40Yoshi477wel anyways im off for the afternoon, cya  guy tonight maybe
18:10.19``Erik´/clear
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18:49.32``Erikhm
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19:26.46starseekerkanzure: at a guess, the contraptor project looks like it's not mature yet
19:27.05starseekertheir web page appears to be a default sourceforge page, for the most part
19:27.48starseekergenerally speaking, open source CAD tools have a ways to go
19:41.21starseekerwonders how he can justify buying an N900...
19:52.44kanzurestarseeker: nah the real web page is somewhere else apparently
19:52.53kanzuregoes back to hating everything and everyone
19:53.33starseekerthese guys?  http://www.garagefab.cc/contraptor/what-is-it
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22:21.51kanzureyes
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090906

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090906

00:04.04Yoshi477starseeker, i have a N810
00:21.27starseekerYoshi477: cool - how do you like it?
00:21.36Yoshi477i like it alot
00:21.51Yoshi477if i had money i would wish for 3g on it!
00:21.59Yoshi477gps does what i want it to do,
00:22.05starseekersweet
00:22.08Yoshi477browser not bad for speed
00:22.12Yoshi477email pretty good
00:22.19Yoshi477wireless conect real good
00:22.23Yoshi477games good
00:22.27Yoshi477can run scummvm
00:22.39Yoshi477low memory not nice though
00:22.52starseekernods
00:22.54Yoshi477and it can't play flac!
00:23.20Yoshi477mounts smb and nfs good
00:23.45Yoshi477mplayer is nice on it, although can skip on movement scenes on fullscreen
00:23.54Yoshi477so i watch not in full screen and it seems to be better
00:24.10Yoshi477i don't know about the n900 though
00:24.27Yoshi477does it use skype for calls or does it actually work on the phone company!
00:25.01Yoshi477600 euros!
00:25.08Yoshi477thats like 800 CAD
00:25.11Yoshi477if not 900
00:25.35Yoshi477how much does an iphone cost out there
00:35.41Yoshi477anyways cya,
00:35.52Yoshi477im looking at Mer for the N810, looks cool,
02:03.06starseekerYoshi477: sorry, doing things
02:06.23starseekeryeah, phones are expensive when you don't get them subsidized
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15:03.16yukonbobYoshi477: n810 was being blown out by Amazon for less than 300 lately; n900 is out now...
15:03.54yukonbobsees than Yoshi477 knows the n900 is out :P
15:04.19starseekeryukonbob: where are you seeing < 300? I'm seeing over $400 here
15:04.39yukonbobhrmm... few weeks ago I -bought- one for < 300
15:04.49yukonbobwas at amazon.co
15:04.52starseekeris jealous
15:04.59yukonbob*.com
15:05.17starseekerthere are a couple used ones for < 300...
15:05.34yukonbobhad to have a friend in US receive it, because amazon wouldn't ship to Canada, and amazon.ca didn't carry it.
15:06.18Yoshi477i got an invisiable shield on mine!
15:06.53yukonbob!Gah --- they're showing as $500 now
15:07.08yukonbobtoo bad :(
15:07.09starseekerIf the N900 is a phone too, I'm going to have to start working on ways to justify getting one
15:07.22starseekerNokia deserves support for what they're doing
15:08.12yukonbobstarseeker: it is
15:08.50starseekernot an open hardware phone of course, but certainly a step in the right direction
15:09.40yukonbobno, not an openmoko, but largely open platform *(OS-wise)
15:10.18yukonbob"Maemo" linux + Gtk ("Hildon") in a "Fremantle" window manager
15:10.59starseekerand they're going with Qt for the N900?
15:11.39yukonboboops -- "Fremantle" != wm -- is code name for Maemon v5
15:12.01yukonbobstarseeker: I believe it's still Gtk for n900
15:12.32Yoshi477looking to get this first! http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/servlet/ProductDetailDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&productId=1002947
15:13.01yukonbobhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_roadmap/Fremantle#Changes
15:13.35starseekerOoo, an openmoko for $250...
15:14.07yukonbobL00nucks journal had a review of the OpenMoko few months ago, and said the phone basically sucks.
15:14.27yukonbobit was a neat hacking platform, but the call quality was poor
15:14.28starseekeryeah, I know
15:14.36yukonboband the stylus was laughable
15:14.39starseekerthat's REALLY too bad
15:14.43yukonbobnods
15:14.52starseekerif they would just do a good phone, I don't care about all the gizmos
15:15.07yukonbobI was following the OpenMoko project for some time, and thought it would be my entrance into this new size of computing
15:15.11yukonbob*new to me
15:15.11starseeker"do one thing, do it right - the Unix phone, the Unix way"
15:15.16yukonbobheh
15:15.40starseekerwants one anyway for the sheer novelty
15:16.02starseekertake it into a Verizon Wireless store and see if there's a matter/antimatter reaction
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15:18.19starseekerif they could just get a good phone going, someone could start up a nonprofit organization to spread wireless coverage equipment and do cell phone and internet data via phone right
15:21.06yukonbobthat's what /me hoped to tap into w/ the n810  (mind-you, only with wireless, not cellular)... n900 next.
15:21.45yukonbobstarseeker: how's it going, by the way -- haven't talked for some time ;)
15:22.03starseekergoing good - just got new house, so preparing to move
15:22.16yukonbob!w00t
15:22.25starseekerprojects galore :-/
15:22.55starseekerhouse has, among other details, bad wood paneling and a mirror wall downstairs
15:23.12yukonbobyou mean house projects, a la dry walling, new fixtures, painting, etc.?
15:23.16starseekercarpet everywhere, relatively cheap finishings
15:23.19starseekeryep
15:23.31yukonbobgreat.
15:23.45starseeker'course, if it were better finished we couldn't have afforded it
15:23.54yukonbobhas had a few of those (and continues to have them) for last few years
15:24.10starseekeras it is it's in a decent location neighborhood, so only the downturn let us in even now
15:24.51yukonbobsounds like a good purchase: get the worst house in the best neighbourhood
15:24.58starseekerwill go for the "sweat equity" approach to house redo
15:25.04yukonbobnods
15:25.06starseekeryeah, pretty much
15:25.24yukonbobstarseeker: what city?
15:25.50starseekernot that it's a bad house - my favorites when we were hunting were a farm house with the floor sagging in the middle and a house so trashed my fiance and I had to go back outside
15:25.54starseekerFallston, MD
15:26.34starseekerour realtor was brave and went downstairs in the latter house - came out looking a bit pale
15:26.41yukonbobheh
15:27.03yukonbobstarseeker: were you living in eastern Canada before?
15:27.10starseekernope, Baltimre
15:27.16starseekerer Baltimore
15:27.17yukonbobhrmm
15:27.26yukonbobwonders why I associated you with Canada
15:27.32yukonboboh well
15:27.34starseekerraises eyebrow
15:28.00starseekerdunno - maybe I'm not conservative enough to be seen as US? ;-P
15:28.10yukonbob== Canada; if you need a western CAD address to crash, lemme know ;)
15:28.17yukonbobstarseeker: hehe
15:29.06starseekerFallson on the whole is seen as a "good" place to live, so a lot of folks didn't bother doing much updating to their decor
15:29.41starseekerfolks we bought from got caught by the downturn, I'm sure - traditionally they would have gotten a pretty penny for this place without doing any updating
15:30.14starseekeras it was, they were on the market a year without any offers
15:30.24starseekerthat's a good position to be in as a buyer :-)
15:31.15yukonbobnods
15:31.35starseekerI attempted to follow my training and look past the superficial
15:31.35yukonbobthat housing downturn was  not so present in Canada, in my experience.
15:31.53yukonbobhousing sales/starts down, but prices didn't fall too much.
15:32.01yukonbobbest side effect was lower interest rates
15:32.07starseekerwell, that's a blessing
15:32.32starseekerin the US, there were a few super overheated areas and a general insane price climb
15:33.01starseekerEast Coast has always sucked, but Arizona (of all places) really went nuts for a while
15:33.50starseekerknew not to buy as soon as he saw a news article saying mortgage companies were looking for creative new ways to get people loans and get them into houses
15:34.31starseekerthey deserve to get smacked, the problem is they're dragging down the whole economy with 'em
15:35.14starseekerloves it when he hears a radio show saying "we only lost 200,000 jobs this month - the rate is slowing!"
15:35.42starseekeruh, yeah - 'cause they're running out of jobs to cut
15:48.16Yoshi477== southern ontario! if someone need to pitch a tent!
16:26.42yukonbobYoshi477: where?
16:26.53yukonbobwas of Toronto for ~2.5 years
16:27.00Yoshi477fergus!
16:30.50yukonbob<-- doesn't know where that is -- will need to break out a map ;)
16:32.31Yoshi477north of guelph
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23:27.55PcWarlockhi all
23:28.29louipcyo
23:29.01PcWarlock- Ghost
23:29.09PcWarlockggsdf
23:29.18louipcmmhm
23:30.29PcWarlockhi
23:30.33PcWarlockhow r u
23:30.53louipcgood. how are you?
23:31.32PcWarlockthanks
23:31.39PcWarlockfine
23:31.49PcWarlockwhere r u from
23:32.46louipccanada
23:32.55PcWarlockwell
23:39.30PcWarlock-cmuse
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23:47.22cmusehi all
23:47.52cmusewhy not anybody say something
23:47.54cmuse?
23:48.10cmuse:)
23:49.00louipcsleepy
23:49.33cmuseyes
23:49.35cmuse:)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090907

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090907

00:29.48cmuse<PROTECTED>
00:36.59louipccmuse: kind of
00:37.21cmusedont understand
00:37.45Yoshi477cmuse, hes drinking!
00:38.12cmuse:)
00:38.14cmuseno
00:38.44cmusewhy?
00:39.07Yoshi477cause he has to answer so many of my questions!
00:39.37cmuse:)
00:39.41cmuseok
00:41.46cmusewhy r u be there?
00:45.16brlcadhello
00:45.20Yoshi477hello
00:46.42cmusehi
00:46.48cmuseh r u?
00:48.23brlcadcmuse: i'm fine thanks, did you need help with something or just hanging out?
00:49.10cmuseyes
00:49.25cmusei want to join this project
00:49.37brlcadthat wasn't a yes/no question :)
00:49.42Yoshi477cmuse, in what way?
00:51.23``Erikheh, wow, the original snow leopard photo has a little blood around the mouth, so apple decided to clean it up? heh nutty
00:51.46Yoshi477eh?
00:52.25cmusein c++
00:52.57cmuseyou want to me something and i do
00:53.13Yoshi477what country you from, your english seems a little off
00:53.24cmuseTurkey
00:53.28Yoshi477or your like me and failed english in school
00:53.30Yoshi477ah
00:53.31Yoshi477cool
00:53.50cmuseyes failed
00:53.53Yoshi477do you know what a pointer is?
00:54.25cmuseyes
00:54.45Yoshi477ok you passed the priliminary exam, brlcad would you answer this guys question?
00:55.26``Erikthe 'tracker' at sourceforge is full of potential ideas for something to do
00:55.47brlcadhe's not actually posed a question
00:55.52Yoshi477there you go, first step g-code exporter! lol
00:56.04Yoshi477brlcad, true,
00:56.06brlcadcmuse: well you're quite welcome to get involved .. I'd suggest starting with something really basic that interests you
00:56.42brlcadfixing bugs is always a good starting point
00:57.30brlcadhelps familiarize with code so you can contribute more effectively down the road
00:58.14cmuseok
00:59.23cmuseguys
00:59.38cmusethanks to your help
00:59.55Yoshi477so you interested in math?
01:00.58cmuseof course
01:01.04cmusei like it
01:01.07Yoshi477ok
01:01.15Yoshi477my head hurts when i use math
01:01.29Yoshi477i get a headache
01:01.53Yoshi477and i have ADHD
01:02.08Yoshi477which is slowly phasing out but still there
01:02.10cmusepossible
01:02.31Yoshi477what kinda sys you running?
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01:05.04cmusepls explain?
01:09.03Yoshi477system, m$, mac, nix, type writer?
01:16.14cmusenix
01:18.40cmusei said nix, heard me?
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01:26.35louipckde hehe
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05:25.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 0388.8.72.131 07http://brlcad.org * r1614 10/wiki/FAQ: /* How can I fix the huge transparent yellow cursor when I run MGED? */
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11:17.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:88.8.72.131]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
11:18.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1615 10/wiki/FAQ: Undo revision 1614 by [[Special:Contributions/88.8.72.131|88.8.72.131]] ([[User talk:88.8.72.131|Talk]])
11:20.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:Ji38 buy alesse online cheap]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled, e-mail blocked): Spamming links to external sites
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13:45.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35853 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/iges/n_iges.cpp:
13:45.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: assert the real parameter
13:45.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: (probable a copy-and-paste error)
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13:50.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35854 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep_debug.cpp:
13:50.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: added the return statement to brep_command()
13:50.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: (hopefully a reasonable one)
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13:54.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35855 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp:
13:54.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: replaced a stack allocation with a more portable heap allocation
13:54.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: (especially for the MS Windows port)
13:58.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35856 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/obj-g.c: replaced basename() by its portable bu_~ version
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14:04.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35857 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ (CMakeLists.txt iges/CMakeLists.txt): updated CMake files to be consistent with the corresponding Makefile.am
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21:17.13``Erikhmmmm
21:17.20``Eriknoms his steak
21:44.27brlcadhad steak earlier
21:44.44brlcadsalt cured for 24 hours, delish
21:54.53``Erikpound and a half given a rub of garlic and montreal steak salt, a large helping of green beans and a box of 'natures promise' mac&cheese (with extra cheese added). I'm feeling a bit rolly and a bunch polly
22:07.36*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.48.127)
22:07.50Ralithhey guys
22:07.53Ralithbeen settling into college
22:11.44``Erikclasses started yet? or just getting the dorm room together and all the crap out of th eway?
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23:01.46Ralith``Erik: been orientationing all week, classes start tomorrow
23:01.52Ralithspent today getting more set up, relaxing
23:18.06``Erikcool
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23:20.11brlcadhowdy Ralith
23:21.57Ralithonly just now getting time to get my irssi reconfiged ;_;
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12:53.59brlcadyawns and soaks up some caffeine
12:56.21Yoshi47thats a good idea
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13:06.33Yoshi47thats hits the spot
13:07.57``Erikwould recommend against putting hot coffee on your "spot"...
13:08.19Yoshi47thanks for that
13:09.04Yoshi47in this boolean what specifies the rotation? u hexbolt_M8x55.c1 0 0 -25.4  0 6.123031769112e-17 -1 60.325  0 1 6.123031769112e-17 12.7  0 0 0 1
13:12.34brlcadit's a 4x4 homogeneous matrix
13:12.52Yoshi47nice you just blew over my head
13:13.17Yoshi47do i have read more?
13:14.05brlcadbasically it's one mathematical matrix that specifies translations, rotations, and scaling all in one
13:14.33Yoshi47ya, im reading up on it.
13:14.35Yoshi47give me a sec
13:14.40Yoshi47and i'll be back
13:14.40brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformation_matrix
13:14.43Yoshi47thanks
13:15.09brlcadit's easy to derive the translation as it's just a column, but once you apply a rotation, it gets a little tricky
13:15.22brlcadscaling is similarly trivial, down the diagonal
13:16.38brlcade.g., if you saw   1 0 100 0   0 1 0 0   0 0 1 0   0 0 0 1   that would be a translation 100 units down the X axis
13:17.10Yoshi47ah
13:17.19brlcadand if you saw   2 0 0 0   0 2 0 0   0 0 2 0   0 0 0 1   that would be an object scaled 2x
13:17.25Yoshi47ah
13:17.33``Erikrow major representation
13:17.57``Erikimagines that screwed with folk back when fortran was really common
13:18.27Yoshi47so my next question is when ihave that part comb inside another comb can i edit the with oed the hexbolt.c just for the one comb or will it affect all combs that it is in?
13:18.57``Erikit'll only twist the matrix of the comb you specified
13:19.26``Erikif you want things to modify stuff down the line, 'push' and 'xpush' do that after you've oed'd it
13:20.13brlcadwhen you use oed, you specify a "right hand" and "left hand" side of a path .. where you split left and right sides is where the matrix goes
13:20.15Yoshi47so how do i only edit the hexbolt for this assmebly? xslide_yslackadjasm_1.c/hexbolt_M8x55.c/
13:20.39Yoshi47so oed /xslide_yslackadjasm_1.c/hexbolt_M8x55.c/ xslide_yslackadjasm_1.c/hexbolt_M8x55.c/
13:20.45brlcadno
13:20.59brlcadit's just one, like a filesystem path
13:21.12brlcad/xslide_yslackadjasm_1.c/hexbolt_M8x55.c/path/all/the/way/to/some/primitive
13:21.26brlcadthen you *split* that somewhere
13:21.30brlcadlike
13:21.40brlcad<PROTECTED>
13:21.44Yoshi47but that edits the whole comb, or can i specify just to move the hexbolt?
13:21.50Yoshi47ah
13:21.54Yoshi47i think im getting it
13:22.15brlcadthat means i'm intending to apply a matrix to the hexbolt_M8x55.c referenced in xslide_yslackadjasm_1.c
13:22.37brlcadnot all hexbolt_M8x55.c's, just the one
13:22.53Yoshi47cool
13:22.56Yoshi47i think i get it now,
13:23.05brlcadif I wanted all of them, I'd either do /xslide_yslackadjasm_1.c/hexbolt_M8x55.c   path/all/the/way/to/some/primitive
13:23.08brlcador just
13:23.28brlcad<PROTECTED>
13:23.47Yoshi47ok
13:23.51Yoshi47that helps, thanks
13:23.54brlcad"/" as the left hand side is effectively a special case
13:24.14brlcadthe oed tutorial covers in a lot more detail
13:24.31Yoshi47ya, im bad i only skimmed over it, i should go through it again
13:24.35brlcadincluding why the (hell) you have to specify the path to a primitive
13:24.53Yoshi47reference point, no?
13:25.01brlcadyeah .. implementation detail, it's the anchor point
13:25.09brlcadrotation point
13:25.11Yoshi47yep figured that one out
13:25.17Yoshi47makes sense
13:25.29brlcadcombinations have no natural reference point as they're implicit
13:26.16brlcadin the future, we might make it the center of their bounding box or something similar
13:28.22Yoshi47that would be a handy thing! lots of people would like that
13:30.18brlcadsounds simple enough, but there's actually a surprising bit under the hood that would need to change to support that
13:36.25``Erikcuts away a very slight curve from a cube by subtractive a huge sphere... then wonders why the center of the bounding box is far far away from the final geometry O:-)
13:43.27Yoshi47just ignore any subtractions
13:52.51``Erikexcept if you subtract a combination that has a subtraction in it, that double negative makes it an adder
13:52.52brlcadthe same holds for intersections
13:54.42brlcadit'll still result in unintuitive keypoints until boolean evaluation, which is part why it's non-trivial .. but even using bounding boxes it's still a bit of work
13:57.00brlcadconsider a (0,0,0)->(100,100,100) cube that is shifted slightly in the x-dir and subtracted (leaving a thin plate) -- whether you ignore the subtraction or not, it'll result in a keypoint at roughly (50,50,50)
13:57.13brlcadno where near the evaluated geometry
13:57.19Yoshi47ah
13:57.22Yoshi47so true
13:58.34brlcadyou really want the bounding box of the evaluated result, but evaluating implicit booleans isn't quick or easy or directly possible (but becomes possible with a hybrid system)
13:59.07brlcadeven better, the center of mass, but that's even more expensive to evaluate
14:01.07brlcad``Erik: and that only happens in a pure boolean system, not with csg (subtracting something with a negative doesn't invert that negative space)
14:10.15``Erikthere is that complication, but it's not clean like a pure boolean *shrug*
14:10.27``Erik(anyways, it's not as simple as "just ignore subtractions")
14:10.41Yoshi47got it
14:49.14``Erikghostriding an mrap.. wow... I didn't think people that r-tarded could enlist anymore
14:50.56starseekerstarts in shock - the Ayam dude has implemented the Subdivision NURBS stuff from SIGGRAPH
14:51.19starseekerwe really need to get him to merge his stuff with BRL-CAD :-)
14:52.41starseekerholy cow
14:53.17Yoshi47where?
14:53.45``Erikplenty of holy cow's in india, I believe
14:53.52Yoshi47lol
14:54.09``Erikor were ya asking about http://ayam.sf.net ?
14:54.24Yoshi47nope expecting your reply, lol
14:54.29Yoshi47i already looked that up
14:55.04``Erikmmmm delux dietyburger with cheese
14:55.06``Erik*drool*
14:55.12starseekerhttp://ayam.sourceforge.net/news.html
14:55.28``Erikis going to be reincarnated as a jock strap at this rate
15:04.22d-lothats a dismal fate if I've ever heard one....
15:04.47starseekeroh, I see - he's actually linking to the GPL code for the snurbs part
15:04.54starseekerpoop
15:06.30starseekerstill neat, but not something we can use directly
15:06.46starseekeroh well - we would have had to implement snurbs as a primitive anyhow
15:16.02Yoshi47is there autocomplete feature in mged CLI?
15:17.42starseekeryou mean tab completion?  I think that's just in MGED Tcl/Tk currently
15:24.57Yoshi47yes, wheres that?
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15:48.52louipcthere's tab completion in classic mode
15:52.23brlcadthere is, but there are some issues with it in classic (either works or it doesn't of course)
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16:57.48``Erik*burp* good old korean
16:58.50KingofCSUHello everyone  I am new to BrlCAD. How to learn it?
16:59.11brlcadKingofCSU: hello, start with the "Introduction to MGED" on the website
16:59.22brlcadand it's "BRL-CAD", not BrlCAD ;)
17:00.13KingofCSUI have see it  and I think it is hard to make complex things
17:00.26KingofCSUby using CSG
17:05.10KingofCSUit is said there is Brep in BRL-CAD .  where is it?
17:05.30brlcadit's currently under development
17:05.39KingofCSUoh
17:05.50brlcadCSG isn't harder, it's just very different
17:06.04RalithKingofCSU: there are some very impressive proofs of this, if you'd like ^^
17:06.24KingofCSU? so
17:06.34brlcada good csg modeler is generally just as productive as a modeler using brep approaches
17:06.58brlcadthere are tradeoffs to both and shapes that lend themselves strongly to both
17:07.03KingofCSUI am trying to learn the CSG
17:07.28Ralithbrlcad: did you ever render that impeller with the metal shader?
17:07.32brlcadthe tutorial series is the place to start, the learning curve is steep at first, but it gets a lot easier
17:07.34Yoshi47?
17:07.43Yoshi47chrome!
17:07.54brlcadRalith: heh, I did but don't have it on hand at the moment
17:07.58Ralithkk
17:08.04Yoshi47i do!
17:08.07Ralith:D
17:08.18brlcadbut you remind me that I had another going over the weekend
17:08.25Yoshi47lol
17:08.27RalithYoshi47: incidentally, did you ever write that walkthrough?
17:08.51Yoshi47going to be doing that soon, i have a couple of projects that need to get done first this week
17:09.08Yoshi47i will redo it from scratch and write the how to as i go along
17:09.17Ralithcool :D
17:09.20KingofCSUI am Chinese . poor English . lol
17:09.21Raliththat'll be fun to read
17:09.22Yoshi47there is a couple areas i can improve on since i learnt more over the last few weeks
17:09.40Raliththinks it wouldn't hurt to be more familiar with mged as he plays with g3d
17:10.30Yoshi47fun to read?
17:10.38KingofCSUbrlcad: What should i do when i finish the the tutorial series?
17:10.47Yoshi47go over them again
17:10.48RalithYoshi47: fun to read and model
17:11.23Yoshi47ya, should be fun to writw
17:11.25KingofCSUOk I will go over them .  did them cover all things?
17:11.26Yoshi47*write
17:11.51RalithKingofCSU: it covers enough to start with, certainly.
17:12.06KingofCSUany other thing to improve?
17:12.36Yoshi47practice making stuff on your desk
17:12.41Yoshi47and assemblies
17:13.00Yoshi47choose something simple cause it will be hard at first
17:13.22KingofCSUYoshi47: That is a good idea. I will try and thanks a lot for answer my Q?
17:14.26Yoshi47yep, no problem, im a newbie just like you, only been doing it for month, and if you look on more.brlcad.org you can see my bearing i did
17:14.43Yoshi47although not render nicely yet
17:15.27KingofCSUOne more Q. how to snap to something. It is hard to put something to a place exactly without the "p" comment?
17:15.49Yoshi47i haven't tried snapping yet
17:15.56Yoshi47but there is snap to grid
17:16.47KingofCSUI see.  I mean just like the 'blender' to snap a solid to a point or a midle of a solid just like that
17:17.34Yoshi47nope not that i have found and im pretty sure it doesn't exist right now
17:19.04KingofCSUI follow the tutorial to make a goblet. and it is hard to put the sph exactly to the top of another. lol
17:19.40Yoshi47yep, i basically figure it out and use translate
17:19.59Yoshi47but you want a little overlap, as it does say that in the tutorial
17:20.38Yoshi47since in real life if your goblet balls only were connected by a thou of material it would break easily
17:21.17KingofCSUby the way. I am a Chinese. sometime I have to use the dic to translate English to Chinese. make me slowly
17:22.45Yoshi47ah, you live in China too?
17:22.53KingofCSUyep . you are right. so did the Brl-CAD have the "merge" command ?
17:22.58KingofCSUyes I live in China
17:23.38KingofCSUI mean the "union" is not same as "merge"
17:23.38Yoshi47merge? like you want to merge 2 parts together?
17:24.12Yoshi47keep following the tutorial it will get there.
17:24.44KingofCSUI will.
17:26.38KingofCSUhow many BRL-CAD Tutorial Series there are? four? or more
17:28.04Yoshi47some more tutorial also i don't know if they are part of the series. here is an impeller i did while learning BRL-CAD http://ej.nijenhuis.pixi.me/v/CAD/impeller.png.html
17:28.17Yoshi47and brlcad rendered it for me
17:28.31KingofCSUThanks I will check it.
17:28.42Yoshi47took me at least 8 hours to do that
17:29.00KingofCSUbeautiful
17:29.42Yoshi47and this took me a week the first time while learning the program, and then i lost the database so i had to redo and i redid the whoel thing in under 1.5hours  http://ej.nijenhuis.pixi.me/v/CAD/render_balls.png.html
17:29.56brlcadKingofCSU: the tutorial series should take a day at least to go through without skimming (it's useless to skim it), should ask again after that or have something in mind to model of your own then work on that after the tutorials
17:30.50Yoshi47yep i agree!
17:31.07KingofCSUthanks for your advice
17:31.40Yoshi47and don't give up!
17:32.06Yoshi47Ralith, i think i need another 22" for at home when i do the tutorial on the impeller!
17:32.47KingofCSUI must to go bed now  it is 01:32a.m. here .
17:32.57Yoshi47cya
17:33.08KingofCSUcya
17:39.16brlcadfwiw, our union is a 'merge' operation, with no interior surfaces preserved ..
17:40.24``Erikpractices his evil laugh a bit before hitting commit
17:40.36brlcadthe idea of "union" preserving interior surfaces is a brep-bastardization implementation detail of only having boundaries and a "union" meaning to union the boundaries instead of the volumes
17:48.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35858 10/brlcad/trunk/ (39 files in 36 dirs): Append v4 import/export functions with a '4'.
17:49.15brlcader
17:49.39``ErikO.o
17:49.52brlcadwaits for the diff
17:50.48``Eriknow v4 doesn't have the good names, they're just as ugly as v5 :D
17:51.59brlcadheh, those aren't the ones exactly that I had in mind
17:52.08brlcadbut actually good to be consistent there
17:52.16brlcadand none of those I'd consider "public", so all good
17:52.28``Erikthose're the ones I was talking about moving into dbupgrade eventually
17:52.49brlcadthere's a lot more than those needed to support v4
17:53.09brlcadit's the others that are problematic
17:54.16``Erikheh, like which? (I was just looking for a bit of distraction before diving into more adrt/isst shtuff or metaball shtuff or marching cubes or anything)
17:54.32brlcadabout half of the funcs in src/librt/db_*.c
17:54.51brlcadthose are the ones that are public api and can't/shouldn't change
17:55.09``Erikah, I didn't want to touch those just yet, that'd be more v6 offsite fodder
17:56.13brlcadmaybe, but librt could use some other refactoring love before getting to that
17:56.30``Erikayup
17:56.48brlcadlike encapsulating the other db objects from the core lib (attributes, binary objects, combinations, ..)
17:56.56brlcadlike the primitives
17:57.39brlcadrefactoring rt_functab away into a set of api routines (rt_import(), rt_export(), rt_shot(), rt_tess(), etc)
17:58.23``Erikinside of a 'primitive_s' struct? or *shudder* c++? (objC?)
17:58.48brlcadmigrating timing facilities to libbu, root solving to libbn
17:59.06brlcadhm?? no
17:59.16brlcadsame signature for the most part
17:59.25``Erik<-- is taking his afternoon nap, btw O.o :D
17:59.55brlcadinstead of rt_sph_export(...), it'd be more like rt_export(sph, ...)
18:00.22brlcadusing either the ID like it is now or (better) using an rt_db_internal handle
18:00.29``Erikhm
18:01.06brlcadthat's what all the mirror migration has been about, first one to go through the motions but from start to finish
18:01.07``Erikand rt_export() would do...?
18:01.15``Erikah
18:01.29brlcadrt_tess() is probably a better example
18:01.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35859 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/rhc/rhc_brep.cpp:
18:01.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: It's always something stupid. Needed to flip the straight line around. This
18:01.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: isn't a true rhc in the sense that the curved edge isn't yet mapped to the
18:01.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 'correct' hyberbolic curve per the inputs, but the basic idea of the shape is
18:01.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: now working.
18:02.01``Erikrt_tess() would be a nice jump point for something like marching cubes, I'd imagine
18:02.31brlcadinstead of rt_sph_tess(...), becomes rt_tess(sph, ...) where you pass in the object to tessellate (even if all it does internally is use the functab and call rt_sph_tess() under the hood)
18:03.20brlcadright, then the functab calls become part of the API and you don't need to know object types -- you just pass in the database internal pointer
18:03.59brlcadgets back to writing
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18:13.12Yoshi47i love not having to save!
18:14.07d-lobrlcad:  writing what?  if ya don't mind me askin.
18:14.31Yoshi47my wole db for sweetspot is only 323kB! well that is only the x slide design.
18:15.19starseekerYoshi47: just out of curiosity - try running g-asc and then asc-g and see if that gives you a smaller file (back up the original first though!)
18:15.36Yoshi47ok
18:16.37Yoshi47starseeker, you mean g2asc
18:16.43starseekerer, yeah
18:18.02Yoshi47699.0kB in asc format
18:18.22starseekernow convert that asc back to a .g
18:18.26starseekerasc2g
18:18.53Yoshi47323.6kB orginal and now its 312.4kB
18:19.04starseekerhmm, ok :-)
18:19.08starseekera little, not much
18:20.34Yoshi47how does it minimize that?
18:20.46Yoshi47what does it get rid of?
18:21.38Yoshi47i think i need a faster computer!
18:30.46brlcadd-lo: abstracts
18:32.44brlcadYoshi47: when objects are deleted/killed, their space is released but only reused when something of similar/smaller size will fit, kind of like disk fragmentation
18:33.12Yoshi47ah
18:33.29brlcadthere is a garbage_collect command that does something similar, but g2asc+asc2g is another "double-blind" way
18:45.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35860 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (bot/bot_brep.cpp ebm/ebm_brep.cpp poly/poly_brep.cpp):
18:45.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: Get some of the 'easy' csg-brep added - these primitives will just convert to
18:45.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: nmg and use that routine. ars has some longer term interesting possibilities,
18:45.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: but for replicating existing surfaces this should do OK. ebm, which
18:45.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: fundamentally uses pixels and has square edges (however small) should also be a
18:45.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: fairly clean if fairly massive workable nmg conversion.
18:46.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35861 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/Makefile.am: Oh yeah, add the Makefile.am entries.
18:46.16brlcadand misc and cmake
18:46.26starseekerah, right
18:47.22brlcadkeep a continuous distcheck going somewhere (wopr's good for that), should keep things clean
18:49.51Yoshi47is there any way to speed up my wireframe rotating and panning?
18:49.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35862 10/brlcad/trunk/ (misc/win32-msvc8/librt/librt.vcproj src/librt/CMakeLists.txt): Add other build file updates.
18:50.17Yoshi47without getting rid of the bolts
18:51.02starseekerYoshi47: are you using an opengl or an X display manager?
18:51.17Yoshi47pretty sure opengl
18:51.17starseekeron some platforms ogl will be a bit faster
18:51.22starseekerhrm
18:51.34Yoshi47running xfce4
18:53.34Yoshi47is there a way to see draw this but only show details up to a certain measurement
18:53.47starseekernot currently that I know of
18:54.00starseekerlevel of detail is something we've been wanting to have for a while now
18:55.20Yoshi47guess im going to have to find a way to hide a certain part
18:58.19brlcadYoshi47: run "mged -c", what does it say after attach?
18:59.25Yoshi47(nu|X)[nu]?
19:00.21brlcadYoshi47: part surrogation is generally done manually pretty easily with "cp part expensive_part ; kill part ; cp cheap_part part" .. just take care to back up your work
19:00.43brlcadthen to restore, just the reverse to put expensive_part back in place as that part
19:00.56Yoshi47ya i guess that would work
19:01.39brlcadonly a problem if you have a ton of parts like that which you need to surrogate
19:01.44Yoshi47and i could just replace the threads on the bolt with a rcc for now
19:01.51brlcadright
19:02.09Yoshi47and when i do the rendering i can change it back
19:02.32brlcadanother way is to have a high-res and a low-res copy of the higher-level assembly/part
19:02.41brlcadso you have two top-levels
19:02.46Yoshi47im waiting for a chunk of 3x1" ALM to fall in the cut off bin here!
19:03.03Yoshi47ah
19:03.08Yoshi47now you got me thinking
19:03.39brlcadyou use all the same objects except for the few expensive ones, so it's pretty compact and will get most changes
19:04.20brlcadthat attach prompt means your using X11 protocol to display the wireframe presently, so you probably would get a speed boost by compiling brl-cad with opengl support enabled
19:04.45Yoshi47how much boost?
19:04.56brlcadtoo many factors to say
19:05.44Yoshi47ok
19:05.46brlcadat worse, it won't work at all or will be about the same performance-wise; at best, could be 10x faster
19:05.58Yoshi47umm
19:06.25Yoshi47or i stick the Quadro card in my computer thats in the closet? but you said before that would really help?
19:06.56brlcadand by "won't work at all", I mean it can conceivably crash X and your kernel if you have really crappy drivers and a buggy version of X11
19:07.37brlcadyou're probably draw-limited at the moment
19:08.01brlcadso many overlapping lines, so the quadro will only help some if it can do 2d blits faster
19:08.03d-lobrlcad:   more spam on the mailing list :/
19:08.20brlcadd-lo: er, which list?
19:08.31brlcadI see no spam here
19:09.09brlcadnor did I receive the one you replied to .. someone could be spoofing our list as a return address to you specifically
19:09.25d-lobrlcad-commits
19:09.47Yoshi47well im going to try that card right now, see you on the up side
19:09.49Yoshi47bye
19:09.50Yoshi47exit
19:10.22brlcadforward it to me directly
19:10.28brlcadcause I didn't get anything
19:11.41d-lokk done.
19:12.26brlcadhuh, I see one that made it into the archive yesterday
19:12.30brlcadplace where we can chat
19:14.14brlcadwow, there have been several .. yet I haven't received any of them
19:14.15d-lobummer :/
19:14.30*** join/#brlcad Yoshi47 (n=jan@firewall.walinga.com)
19:14.54brlcadstarseeker: have you been getting them?
19:14.56brlcador anyone else?
19:16.41Yoshi47yep card only sped up it 2x maybe
19:16.59Yoshi47now it will help to go opengl
19:19.04starseekerbrlcad: I think I saw one
19:19.17louipcopengl makes mged way faster for me
19:19.33louipcand with my recent build it works perfectly :D
19:20.04Yoshi47you want to try and swing my xslide.c around
19:20.18louipchmm ok
19:20.55louipcwhat's that?
19:21.11Yoshi47http://ej.nijenhuis.pixi.me/d/2445-1/sweetspot_g?g2_GALLERYSID=955f3394427280e58ccda866d6750dec
19:21.17Yoshi47B xslide.c
19:22.26louipcwoo
19:22.40Yoshi47woo or ooww
19:22.51louipcboth
19:22.53Yoshi47ouch?
19:22.57louipcmy computer is slow anyways hahh
19:22.59Yoshi47does it lag?
19:23.04louipcyeah
19:23.07Yoshi47lol
19:23.13Yoshi47those bolts are nasty
19:24.19louipchow'd you do the threads?
19:25.09brlcadstarseeker: just one?
19:25.19brlcadit says there were about 15 in the last month
19:25.43brlcadpretty steady at a rate of about one every other day going back several months .. oddly haven't seen any that I can recall
19:26.33brlcadsomething must be filtering them before I even see them .. wonder if it's something sf.net is doing, or on my end
19:26.34Yoshi47got it of brlcad.org
19:26.50Yoshi47hex database
19:27.38louipcoh
19:29.09brlcadstarseeker: looks like you're set up for digest .. do you see any in your previous digests?
19:31.22starseekerbrlcad: can't tell from here - they get copied to my home machine
19:31.23Yoshi47louipc, now can you give my file back so you don't rip my design off?
19:31.47louipcuh where do I put it?
19:31.50brlcadi see how they're sending .. there's presently an exemption for any sourceforge.net addresses, so they're folks that go through the effort to create an account and post
19:32.32Yoshi47just run it throug dd
19:32.49Yoshi47and then delete it and write zeros there instead
19:33.00Yoshi47and then put it through the file shredder
19:33.14louipcshouldn't the zeros be enough?
19:33.16d-lowow, spammers are having to work now eh?  thats funny.
19:33.40Yoshi47ya i guess
19:33.48louipcok
19:33.50Yoshi47anyways im going home
19:33.56Yoshi47cya guys tonight maybe
19:33.59louipcthere are too many top elements in this model :P
19:34.21louipccheers
19:34.29Yoshi47top elements?
19:34.41louipc`tops`
19:35.18louipcthere should just be one called 'machine' hahh
19:35.26louipcor something
19:36.30Yoshi47B sweetspot.c
19:36.41Yoshi47i call my machine sweetspot
19:36.56louipcah why's that?
19:37.34Yoshi47well its going to be a CNC gauntry router so i would like to get the tolerence tight enough to hit the sweetspot!
19:38.12louipcwhat's the sweetspot?
19:38.19*** join/#brlcad samrose_ (n=samrose@c-24-11-185-57.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
19:38.19Yoshi47half thou
19:38.41Yoshi47anyways cya!
19:38.47louipcbye
19:42.24brlcadd-lo: let me know if you see any others .. I think that config change should help
19:43.57d-lokk, will do.
19:48.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35863 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: test commit, archer has interactive editing support
19:49.12brlcadwell looks like I didn't kill commits altogether
19:49.30brlcaddid you get spam on any of the other lists?
19:49.49d-lodunno.  I will start paying more attention now.
19:49.58brlcadi suspect not because most of the rest only allow subscribed to send to them, if at all
19:51.02brlcadcommits doesn't work that way as everything arrives as the subscribed address doesn't match the sender's address (commits come from sfuser@users.sourceforge.net)
20:00.20``Erikthe more I muddle with objc and cocoa, the more I kinda dig it
20:02.22brlcadit really is pretty swank
20:03.06brlcadthe biggest detractor (at least for open source) is just the platform tie-in
20:04.36``Erikhum, wonder what the state of gnustep is these days
20:04.43*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14D492.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:06.19``Erikthe smalltalkiness makes me happy, but the inability to do multimessages (even though the multiple parameter method definition LOOKS like an attempt at multimessages) makes me sad
20:19.27brlcadstill major props to apple for adding blocks to obj-c with the new rev
20:21.36brlcadmeh on multimessages though, minor syntax boost to not just say the object name N times and instead just say semicolon or whatever
20:23.02brlcadmultiple params isn't an attempt, no diff than smalltalks multiparams. the message is just the concat param1:param2:param3:
20:33.07``Erikah, closures, yeah... need to get my work box on leopard (or snow leopard) so'z I can get those here
20:51.15starseekerbrlcad: what's a cline?
21:05.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35864 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Add in vol-nmg-brep.
21:38.38brlcadstarseeker: an old-school "pipe" description
21:38.53brlcadconnected line segments
21:39.32brlcadwith an inner/outer diameter like pipe has but just one bend radius (spherical joints connect them)
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21:42.47brlcadthe fast4-g importer is the only thing I know of that creates them
21:43.06brlcadCLINE is one of the FASTGEN entities
21:43.44brlcadwould make sense to convert them all over to pipes, of course, and deprecate/remove the old cline primitive, but the effort=>payoff is really minimal
23:48.34``Erikheh "forth: all the power of assembly with all the ease of use of assembly" hehehe
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090909

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090909

00:21.08*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.48.127)
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00:58.31Yoshi477so i redid my impeller, with all the steps laid out, now to tidy up the tutorial and then rerun all the commands and see if i get the same thing!
00:58.37Yoshi477Ralith, im close!
00:58.48brlcadawesome!
00:59.30Yoshi477oh and i figured soemthing out, clone -b 12 0 0 390 blade.r
00:59.41Yoshi477you have to add the degrees to 360 and then you get the spacing right!
00:59.48Yoshi477unless im doing it wrong
01:05.12brlcadmm, sounds like you were either doing something wrong or expecting something wrong.. could be the starting position/orientation of blade.r
01:05.27RalithYoshi477: yay!
01:05.50Yoshi477Tribute for my son!
01:06.28Yoshi477He went to Heaven 1 year ago!
01:08.30brlcadmy condolences, presuming his departure was tragic
01:09.54brlcadsounds like a noble tribute
01:09.54Yoshi477He had HLH a rare blood disease and after a year of treatments and fighting it he passed away, considering he had this, we had lots of fun together and there were a lot of good days, got tons of video and he was one of the most happy kids out side the hospital.
01:10.14Yoshi477and then 2 months after he dies his sister got the same thing(genetic)
01:10.19brlcadlong live the best of memories
01:10.42Yoshi477and then she did a different course of treatment, she got a bonemarrow transplant in Feb, and is recovering very well!
01:10.53brlcadwow, outstanding
01:11.01Yoshi477she is happy most of the time(she on steriods, kinda makes them grumpy!)
01:12.05Yoshi477shes a miracle child, she was in the ICL with 4 failed organs and on the oscillator ventilator and was the 4th kid in the 40 year history of the hospital to come off of it and recover, so we are very thankful for that!
01:12.45Yoshi477anyways, if you want to know more you can ask, other wise i will get back to work and try to finish more of my Tribute to Hendrik!
01:13.10brlcadyeah, talk about beating odds, fantastic to hear she's recovering
01:13.26Yoshi477maybe i'll post a video of last summer when he was kinda normal then you will see he had somewhat of a happy life!
01:18.23Yoshi477its uploading hopefully it works!
01:33.12Yoshi477wel lmy cloned failed, it put an extra one in there! guess i start over and see with 11
01:43.34Yoshi477brlcad, can you render my new impeller in glass and chrome?
01:45.27Yoshi477oh does this movie work for anyone? http://ej.nijenhuis.pixi.me/v/Movies/00025.mpg.html
01:47.31Yoshi477i think i might have to resize it
01:50.27Yoshi477brlcad, heres a text file with all the steps needed to recreate the impeller, http://ej.nijenhuis.pixi.me/d/2452-1/impeller.txt?g2_GALLERYSID=8d870d26847034d67e6a9b58f984d434
01:50.50Yoshi477if you have a chance please render, im off for now,
01:52.09brlcadlooks
01:52.38brlcadthat's a dead movie link, empty gallery
01:53.33Yoshi477yep, i just delete convert the huge mpg into a smaller ogg for easier inbrowser viewing, or anotherformat if you have a suggestion?
01:54.17brlcadogg is only easier on linux :)
01:54.55Yoshi477what video format is fully support by firefox 3.5 now?
01:55.35brlcaddepends on the codecs you install
01:55.55brlcadmpg (2 or 4) should work I'd hope
01:56.13Yoshi477nope ogg, is the only fully support video format for firefox 3.5 with out any other stuff
01:56.17Yoshi477HTML 5 standard
01:57.17brlcadit was removed from html5
01:57.32brlcadcouple years ago..
01:58.00brlcadyeah, here we go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogg_controversy
01:58.33Yoshi477https://developer.mozilla.org/En/Using_audio_and_video_in_Firefox
01:58.40brlcadff 3.5 is actually the only browser to support it :)
01:58.53Yoshi477yes!
01:58.58Yoshi477im goign to convert and upload
01:59.03brlcaddon't get me wrong, I love ogg
01:59.11Yoshi477are you going to try the impeller steps?
01:59.27brlcadjust not yet very practical video format for most still yet
01:59.31brlcadalready tried
01:59.41brlcadyou have some globbing in there so I couldn't just source it
02:02.30Yoshi477really, i tried it and it worked
02:02.33Yoshi477umm what lines?
02:02.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35865 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: a db_glob expression that doesn't match anything should not return the expression.
02:03.39brlcadyou can type it
02:03.41brlcadyou can't source it
02:03.58brlcadglobbing is not available via source command
02:04.07Yoshi477globbing?
02:04.08brlcadwell it is, but not the same way
02:04.10Yoshi477im lost
02:04.15brlcaddon't worry about it :)
02:04.25Yoshi477oh
02:04.31brlcadI got it to work with a one-line tweak
02:04.36Yoshi477lol
02:04.40Yoshi477i figured you would
02:05.12Yoshi477how detail should i make the tutorial, for total newbies or someone who know how to use the interface?
02:06.50brlcadthere is a typo somewhere in your script though
02:06.52brlcadthe clone line
02:07.01brlcadthere's a kill embedded
02:08.08Yoshi477yep got it, thanks
02:09.19*** join/#brlcad KingofCSU (n=king@222.247.155.229)
02:10.49brlcadalso it doesn't make an impeller for me :)
02:10.59brlcadthe booleans don't seem right
02:11.00Yoshi477huh?
02:11.08Yoshi477i tried it 2 times on this side
02:14.11Yoshi477the clone should also be 13!
02:14.34brlcadtry this, comment out the kill line, then run:
02:14.40brlcadmged -c impeller.g "source impeller.mged ; e impeller.c ; rt"
02:14.50brlcadwhere impeller.mged is your script
02:15.02brlcadand impeller.g doesn't exist yet
02:15.35Yoshi477if i changed clone to 13
02:15.44Yoshi477or not i have a impeller
02:16.53Yoshi477can i just leave my text file as is and rename to impeller.mged
02:17.18brlcadyou an just put the name of your test file
02:17.43brlcadmged -c blah.g "source whatever ; e impeller.c ; rt"
02:18.09Yoshi477ouch
02:18.28Yoshi477your right, but if i do it line by line it works?
02:18.29Yoshi477wierd
02:19.12Yoshi477does it follow the script in order and line by line?
02:19.24brlcadyeah
02:19.54brlcadg_diff your.g blah.g
02:20.01brlcadwill compare to .g files and report the differences
02:21.35Yoshi477why does kill *1300 work in mged and not in the script?
02:22.03Yoshi477Segmentation fault
02:22.06Yoshi477when g_diff
02:22.56brlcadvia the source command, it has to do with globbing
02:23.23Yoshi477ah, ok well i got to get to bed,
02:23.23brlcadhuh, would be interested in seeing the stack trace for the segfault
02:23.32Yoshi477command?
02:23.45brlcadglobbing is a detail you probably don't really want to think about just yet :)
02:23.55Yoshi477at least not tonight
02:23.58brlcadright
02:24.16Yoshi477so how do i get the stack trace? strace?
02:24.21brlcadno
02:24.33brlcadgdb --args g_diff your.g blah.g
02:24.35brlcadrun
02:24.37brlcadbt
02:24.43Yoshi477bt?
02:24.51brlcadyou type those two into gdb
02:24.55brlcadrun
02:24.56brlcadbt
02:25.12brlcadit's the short-hand for backtrace
02:25.26Yoshi477This GDB was configured as "x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"...
02:25.26Yoshi477run: No such file or directory.
02:25.26Yoshi477/opt/brlcad/bin/bt: No such file or directory.
02:25.26Yoshi477(gdb)
02:25.32brlcadno
02:25.43brlcadyou didn't run the gdb --args line
02:25.51brlcadgdb --args g_diff fileA fileB
02:26.20brlcadwhatever command you ran that segfaulted, just put "gdb --args" in front of it
02:26.27Yoshi477(gdb) run
02:26.27Yoshi477Starting program: /opt/brlcad/bin/g_diff /data/media/documents/CAD/Impeller/impeller_tutorial.g /home/josiah/impeller.g
02:26.27Yoshi477[Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled]
02:26.27Yoshi477[New Thread 0x7f14dd084700 (LWP 22822)]
02:26.27Yoshi477Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
02:26.28Yoshi477[Switching to Thread 0x7f14dd084700 (LWP 22822)]
02:26.30Yoshi477bu_argv0_full_path () at brlcad_path.c:163
02:26.32Yoshi477163brlcad_path.c: No such file or directory.
02:26.34Yoshi477in brlcad_path.c
02:26.39Yoshi477(gdb) bt
02:26.40Yoshi477#0  bu_argv0_full_path () at brlcad_path.c:163
02:26.42Yoshi477#1  0x00007f14cdeddba1 in tclcad_auto_path (interp=0x60a7f0) at tclcadAutoPath.c:249
02:26.44Yoshi477#2  0x0000000000403d7f in main (argc=<value optimized out>, argv=0x7fffe50c7f20) at g_diff.c:974
02:26.52brlcadthanks
02:26.56Yoshi477np
02:27.00Yoshi477thanks for the patience!
02:27.21Yoshi477well i'll cya tomorrow,
02:27.24brlcadcya!
03:10.51starseekersnorts. Yeah, a default video codec in all browsers is currently impossible.
03:11.21starseekerThe commercial guys want something where they can buy rights to patents/license codecs so they know they're in the clear, and the open source guys won't touch anything like that
03:12.50starseekertwo opinions on that topic - one is that only something untaintable by patents is workable (ogg crowd) and the school that says such a beast is legally impossible under the current system (commercial folk, afraid a patent will appear of of nowhere to make trouble)
03:20.33starseekerwonders if a container format could be tweaked to query the player for a list of supported codecs and then submit a load request to the server for a supported format...
03:37.01starseekerbrlcad: so what do you want to do about converting clines to brep?
03:37.21starseekercan go cline->pipe->brep or implement two brep routines
03:44.19brlcadcline is a lot like old bspline/nurbs
03:44.55brlcadit should be easy enough to write a cline_to_pipe routine that goes from one internal to the other, so you can call the pipe routines
03:45.18brlcadwouldn't implement it twice, not worth it
03:46.39brlcadshould be officially gutted for v6 and put on the chopping block, make fast4-g bring in pipes instead and make cline go away when v5 disappears (having it call pipe routines in the meantime)
03:47.41brlcadan entire day to write one fncking paragraph.. this is so bass ackwards
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12:35.29d-loanyone:  Are there ss's of g3d on brlcad.org anywhere?
12:49.17brlcadyeah, there are a few
12:49.56brlcadmafm's shots are at http://brlcad.org/~mafm/g3d-screenshots/
12:51.57brlcadthere's at least one at http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Ralith of the qt-integration
12:54.09starseekerhttp://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/g3d_latest.png
12:58.38Yoshi47whats G3D?
12:59.08``Erikexperimental gui replacement for MGED
12:59.29Yoshi47but not being worked on anymore, cause of archer?
12:59.41``Erikwell, it's kinda the follow-on to archer...
12:59.49Yoshi47ah?
13:00.18Yoshi47should i be using it? can i?
13:00.26``Erikit's mostly being worked on in the summers by students (usually under the GSoC banner)
13:01.18``Eriknah, you should just be happy that some day, there'll be a more 'modern' and 'user friendly' gui :)
13:01.43Yoshi47ok
13:01.50Yoshi47i'll wiat patiently
13:02.16d-lothanks for the linkage!
13:03.45Yoshi47brlcad, get anywhere with those errors?
13:13.52brlcadYoshi47: not yet, I had to z too eventually :)
13:14.00brlcadhopefully some progress later today/tonight
13:14.05Yoshi47ah
13:14.12brlcadyou can still manually compare the two
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13:14.15brlcads/can/should/
13:14.18brlcadspeak of th edevil
13:14.21brlcadhi Ralith
13:14.42Yoshi47what is he responsible for this!
13:15.04brlcadYoshi47: and no, you shouldn't/can't try out the new gui just .. a bit premature for at least a few more months until something can be posted
13:15.22Yoshi47sob
13:18.36brlcaduser feedback is always good, but don't really want to get side-tracked with demos until we can do something in response, which won't be for a while
13:18.57brlcadarcher needs to be shored up and an alpha pushed out first, get feedback from that, iterate
13:20.57Yoshi47yep i understand
13:24.30``Erikhuh, wsj thinks nukes might make a comeback
13:27.24d-lowsj?
13:28.37d-lowall street journal?
13:28.40``Erikwall street journal
13:28.43``Erikthere's a link on /.
13:29.20Yoshi47comeback? they were never gone, they just hid them really well
13:29.56d-loWell we haven't built a new one in decades.  meanwhile France's electrical power is nearly all nuclear :/
13:31.24d-loNuclear power -> Electric cars/trains -> significantly less petrol dependency.
13:31.29d-lomakes sense to me :)
13:31.40Yoshi47yep me too
13:32.31louipcmore solar and wind would be nice though
13:33.24d-loAgreed.  Much more research needs to be put into thermovoltaic and photovoltaic techs.
13:33.53``Erikthe issue with nuke+electriccar is how to quickly recharge it I think... X hours to recharge is unacceptable for anything but local commute, and the batteries are wayyyy too heavy to swap out for fresh ones
13:34.12d-lorighto.  Battery tech needs some love.
13:34.42d-loBut the only real hurdles are battery tech and electrical generation capacity.
13:34.45``Erikor figure out a better way to hold the energy, fuel cells tend to have expensive and fragile membranes last I heard
13:35.32``Erikhonda has a fuel cell electric they're putting to general market, I think? but limited areas, hydrogen pumps aren't the most common :D
13:35.53``Erik"fcx clarity"
13:36.14d-loRight.  Didn't they preview that on Top Gear?  I think the initial market is California only.
13:36.19``Erikyeah
13:36.36``Erik(knew it from top gear, googled around for the name :D )
13:38.02d-lotidal energy shows promise, but again, more research needed.
13:41.15d-loohshi, didn't know that Toshiba is in the Nuclear bidness.  Huh... i see awesome laptop potental here.
13:41.55louipchehehe
13:43.05``Erikyeah, but, uh, when the laptop 'battery' explodes...
13:43.44``Erik(seems most japanese companies we know about have their fingers in everything, we just hear about their cars or electronics division)
13:44.56d-lobut imagine the uptime......
13:44.57d-lo;)
13:48.25Yoshi47didn't philips or panasonic develope a methane battery for notebook, and you could just recharge with a pressurized can!
13:49.08d-loheh, cow fart powered.... awesome.
13:49.34``Erikhas never thought of 'uptime' as the time between explosive launch and stuff hitting the ground before O.o
13:50.33Yoshi47lol
13:50.46Yoshi47cow burb! more lethal i think
13:51.11``Erik"hold up, need to charge my laptop" *plunkt" "mooOOOO????"
13:51.56Yoshi47Prof "why does it stink like manure in here!)
13:54.57d-loMr Fusion > Cow Battery imho
13:55.47d-looh and Nuclear reactors don't explode :P
13:56.45Yoshi47d-lo, only if you have homer working for you!
13:57.46``Erikbut, wait, isn't the sun a reactor? and it's exploding as speak (oohssss nnnoooeesssss) :D
13:59.17d-lono, its a continous, uncontrolled reaction, not a reactor.  Plus, its fusion, and our 'tractors are fission :P
14:07.27Yoshi47yep all we have to do is figure out fusion and were good to go
14:10.00d-loright.  Now... where to start...
14:11.14starseekerhas always thought the concept of "desktop fusion" via very small pockets of very high pressure was interesting
14:12.04starseekersorta like how they do super-powered lasers that use as much power as the whole USA for a femptosecond...
14:12.54starseekerso far as I know no system has convincingly produce such a multiplier system, but the idea is interesting
14:13.17_clock_that would be good for free space optics
14:13.27_clock_big range :)
14:13.53``Erikjust happens to vaporize the receiver? :D
14:14.16_clock_the receiver has to have suitable dynamic range
14:15.36d-lois thinking something along the lines of Star Wars!
14:20.17Yoshi47Chain Reaction
14:22.22``Erikhttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2442/3769270225_7e4aee9082.jpg
14:22.55brlcadlooks like the view from my upstairs
14:23.19starseekerthat's not how I remember Endor
14:23.51starseekertalk about deforestatino
14:23.57starseekerdeforestation rather
14:24.09_clock_deforestatio
14:24.13_clock_sounds like some sexual practice
14:24.18starseekercan't type today, fingers sore after hammering on laminate flooring
14:24.20``Erikhttp://www.vimeo.com/2587071 heh
14:24.47d-lostarseeker: did you get the snap-fit stuff?
14:25.00starseekerd-lo: yeah
14:25.07starseekereven that's taken some time we dont' have to spare
14:26.04d-loSuckage.  Are you done?
14:26.45starseekerclose
14:26.53starseekerhave to cut some holes for floor vents
14:26.59_clock_with megalaser
14:27.04starseekerthen do the closet
14:27.17starseekerso lot of square footage down, but the hard parts remain
14:28.10starseekerwhat we do have in looks really nice, expecially after the sucky blue carpet
14:31.35``Erik(shoulda had a housewarming party before ya started, so we could get the before/after impression :)
14:32.01Yoshi47took video before any renos
14:32.32d-lo``Erik: nice video link. :)
14:33.07d-loYeah, I love how new wood flooring looks :)
14:33.40_clock_``Erik: you know you could save some heating cost with housewarming parties?
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14:47.00d-lostarseeker: You taking before/after pictures?
14:50.14starseekernot so far - no time :-/
14:50.22starseekerwe have saved the listing photos
14:50.30starseekerthey give a rough idea
15:07.54CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35866 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/3dm/3dm-g.cpp: Add verbosity options to 3dm-g to get Dump statements for various types of geometry, add -r option to optionally randomize colors.
15:09.50CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35867 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Whoops, update NEWS
15:16.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35868 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/rhc/rhc_brep.cpp: Clean up rhc_brep.cpp a bit.
15:45.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35869 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Add a tempate for rpc_brep - not freeing something correctly, rhc and rpc are incompatible in csgbrep and kill everything trying to run it.
15:52.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35870 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/rhc/rhc_brep.cpp: This is not the right way to do it apparently, but will need to be setting weights for this case.
16:08.45*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@d142-058-091-141.wireless.sfu.ca)
16:52.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35871 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/rpc/rpc_brep.cpp: No idea if this solution is general but first correct nurbs rpc representation.
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21:19.16CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03122.49.210.50 07http://brlcad.org * r1616 10/wiki/Main_Page: /* Third-party Projects */
21:35.06CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35872 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs):
21:35.06CIA-28BRL-CAD: Added code to split up a display list if part of the list is no longer being
21:35.06CIA-28BRL-CAD: displayed. That is, if "all.g" which contains "tor.r", "box.r", "platform.r",
21:35.06CIA-28BRL-CAD: "cone.r", "ellipse.r" and "light.r" was originally being display and "all/tor.r"
21:35.06CIA-28BRL-CAD: was removed from the display then the display list for "all" would be split up
21:35.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: into the following new lists: "all.g/box.r", "all.g/platform.r", "all.g/cone.r",
21:35.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: "all.g/ellipse.r" and "all.g/light.r".
22:42.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1617 10/wiki/Main_Page: Undo revision 1616 by [[Special:Contributions/122.49.210.50|122.49.210.50]] ([[User talk:122.49.210.50|Talk]])
22:42.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:122.49.210.50]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
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23:27.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35873 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (18 files in 2 dirs): begin normalizing mode interface
23:28.29``Erikoh nifty, automake 1.11 installs all the headers with a single ginstall call instead of one per each
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090910

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090910

02:54.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35874 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs):
02:54.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: Add (but do not enable) code to grab all regions whose bounding boxes intersect
02:54.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: a sphere and place them in a group. This will at some point make a beginning
02:54.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: for advanced selection options in editors, but in its current form is too
02:54.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: limited to enable as a command.
03:32.21*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
03:32.21*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.8 posted (20090511) || GSoC2009 Next Step: upload your code to google, wait for shirt ;) thanks everyone! || log at http://ibot.rikers.org/#brlcad
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12:54.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35875 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
12:54.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: reword so proper commit note will be associated with those lines in the summary
12:54.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: report. cliff added -r and -v options to the 3dm-g importer to set random
12:54.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: colors on objects during import and to provide better verbose processing
12:54.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: information during import.
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17:51.53*** topic/#brlcad by louipc -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.8 posted (20090511) || GSoC2009 Next Step: upload your code to google, wait for shirt ;) thanks everyone! || Logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/
18:29.35*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-71-238-71-94.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
18:36.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35876 10/isst/trunk/src/Makefile.am: cope with growing c++isms in librt
18:37.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35877 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (4 files in 2 dirs): more interface unification
18:37.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35878 10/isst/trunk/src/local_worker.c: use new init interface
19:06.19brlcadV3ARGS() will expand a %f %f %f for you
19:06.54brlcadassuming [0], [1], [2] indexing
19:19.37``Erik'cept I have to break away from that, v3args is too "clever"
19:20.33``Erik(notice, blah, blah+1, blah+2, NOT blah[0], blah[1], blah[2]... references :D )
19:21.11``Erikif V3ARGS(&blah) did what I wanted, that'd be nifty, but it doesn't
20:40.15brlcadparens?
20:40.15brlcad((&blah))?
20:40.19brlcadmaybe with a cast
20:40.33brlcad(((float*)(&blah)))
20:46.37``Erikdef'd as (a)[X], so'z V3ARGS(&a) resolves to (&a)[X], which blows up... can't do it with the macro
20:47.24``Erikit's too damn safe :D
21:03.09brlcad~seen Ralith
21:03.12ibotralith <n=ralith@69.90.48.127> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 1d 19h 57m 45s ago, saying: 'Yoshi477: yay!'.
21:03.53brlcad~seen jdoliner
21:03.54ibotjdoliner <n=jdoliner@c-67-173-0-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 10d 7h 29m 53s ago, saying: 'ah but fortunately, this won't be too hard to fix at all'.
21:04.16brlcadstudents need to upload their code still
21:14.18``Erikponders how evil "#define V3ARGSP(a) &((a)[X]), &((a)[Y]), &((a)[Z])" would be :>
21:51.08brlcadpretty evil
23:00.25``Erikindeed, unrestrained thinking down that alley can turn into truely horrible abuses, that's how c++ crawled its way from the depths ;> *duck*
23:30.06brlcadheh
23:30.16brlcadc++ isn't *that* bad :)
23:30.20``Erik:D
23:30.43``Erik(it did begin life has a klugefest of macro's, though)
23:32.41starseekerproposes klugefest as the code name for the next Windows release
23:33.10``Erikdude, not cool, don't insult the art of the kluge like that
23:33.10``Erik:D
23:33.40starseekerheh
23:33.55``Erikwindows 8 will be codenamed "fuckit, no one's using this anyways" if vista and 7 are indicators
23:34.01starseeker``Erik: oh, by the by - are you planning to un-weird-ify the isst user navigation?
23:34.07``Erikyes.
23:34.11starseekersweet
23:34.30``ErikI'm refactoring things to be clean and generic to make gui's trivial to write
23:34.54``Erikand then have a few versions to slap on (cocoa, gtk, sdl, tk, mebbe qt...)
23:35.12louipcis 7 out now?
23:35.19``Eriklibdm...
23:35.42``Erikwindows 7 has been out for a bit now, I think
23:35.44starseekerogre... :-P
23:36.02starseekertries to ignore Windows releases...
23:36.15``Erikmebbe it's pre-release versions I've been hearing about
23:36.23louipcI thought it was just beta
23:36.30louipcor RCs
23:36.38``Erikhum, says oct 22 for release
23:36.45``Erik*shrug*
23:37.29``Erikdoesn't quite see how ogre would be a viable interface for adrt... ogre is the engine below the interface, just like adrt... O.o
23:37.49starseekerwas thinking integrate it into the ogre+qt g3d stuff
23:38.04starseekernevermind - just idle humor
23:38.21``Erikok, so g3d would be the frontend and adrt would be the optional ogre replacement :D
23:39.14starseekeryeah, in that case you'd just render into ogre like we render into ogl now for a raytrace I guess (well, except working properly...)
23:39.55``Erikdo we rasterize raytrace results into an ogl window? I thought just the plot sequences were sent down that pipeline
23:39.58``Erik*shrug*
23:40.22starseekerWell, if you compile with opengl enabled, the rt window that pops up says ogl iirc
23:40.51starseekeryeah - /dev/ogl
23:41.01starseekerand at least on my machine it doesn't work so hot
23:41.13starseeker(I think it's a long known issue)
23:41.27starseekerjust waiting on someone to really dig down deep and figure it out
23:41.34``Erikguh
23:41.38``ErikglDrawPixels()
23:42.28``Erik(historically, noticably slower than an unaccelerated X window, and stomped by decent XAA...)
23:42.40starseekereven our X raytrace is drawing too slow - Sean and I noticed it when comparing a sphere raytrace to a nurbs sphere raytrace
23:42.53``Erikum, in mged, or direct?
23:43.01starseekerdirect, iirc
23:43.09starseekeror rather, both
23:43.10``Erikmged uses the network framebuffer which does some r-tarded lock crap or something
23:43.26``Erikso on a fast multicore machine, it's hard to get a decent amount of cpu utilization
23:43.34starseekeryeah, IMHO the whole thing needs a rethink/serious cleanup
23:43.40``Erikbut 'rt' talks straight to the fb, so it's able to cook the cpu's pretty good
23:44.41``Erikthought rt was being called with like -P0 or something at first, until digging into it and spotting the ugly
23:45.31starseekerheh
23:45.51starseekeryeah, modern hardware exposes some interesting issues
23:47.48starseekerit almost feels like some kind of double buffering is needed - render N lines to a buffer then update that part of the window
23:51.48``Erik*readreadread* looks like libpkg makes some assumptions that may no longer be valid? plus a whole lot of logic for each send (therefore each scanline)
23:52.35``Erika better IPC approach might be the right thing for that
23:52.42``Erikif_shm.c ? :)
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23:53.54``Erik(or unix sockets, or at least jumbo frames)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090911

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090911

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05:35.01starseekermakes sure he has valgrind and vim+cscope working on his box in prep for the move
05:56.08starseekerhmm - interesting.  Is there any reason BU_GETSTRUCT would be messed up by being in a cpp file?
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09:16.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35879 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pipe/pipe.c:
09:16.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: extended rt_pipe_ck() by a check of inner_diameter < outer_diameter and used this to do the check of a pipe's correctness in rt_pipe_adjust() at the end of the function
09:16.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: this way an only temporary invalid pipe segment will not be considered as an error any more
11:00.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35880 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
11:00.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: in rt_pipe_adjust() an only temporary invalid pipe segment will not be considered as an error any more
11:00.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: (revision 35879)
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12:01.50brlcadstarseeker: good luck with the move and valgrinding :)
12:02.18brlcadand no, shouldn't be a problem, it's just a malloc call
12:02.42brlcadd_rossberg: awesome :)
12:05.40``Erikheh http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1811646
12:19.38Yoshi47now thats funny, you see the phone fight
12:30.31``Erikhrm?
12:31.09Yoshi47same website,
12:31.29``ErikI'm sure I've seen it, not quite recalling which it is
12:31.57Yoshi47man do threads take a long time to render!
12:32.35``Erikdepends on how they're defined
12:32.49Yoshi47really accurate!
12:32.56Yoshi47from the hex database
12:33.03``Erik"hex database"?
12:33.13``Erikthe thing clock came up with? with all the tgc's?
12:33.14Yoshi47off of brlcad.org
12:33.38Yoshi47i think so
12:34.20``Erikthat's a brutal overlap case, try hitting it with facetize and a pretty good tolerance, see if it's still "good enough" and faster
12:34.45``Erik(or if you can think of a better way to define them until 'rotate' and 'sweep' are fully online...)
12:34.47Yoshi47you lost me!
12:35.09Yoshi47i know nothign of facetize
12:35.18``Erikthe "facetize" command converts geometry to "BoTs", calculated triangle soup
12:36.33Yoshi47hrm...
12:36.38``Erikinstead of computing a bajillion tgc's and doing all the bool weave stuff to get your end bolt, you could facetize it and just have a bunch of triangles to test, instead... should be less computationally expensive to raytrace
12:36.59Yoshi47im scared
12:37.08``Erikthe trick is balancing accuracy vs performance, since it's an approximation
12:37.12Yoshi47wondering whats going to happen
12:37.15``Erikit's ok, baby, it only hurts at first
12:37.18``ErikO;-)
12:37.21Yoshi47lol
12:37.55``Erikmake some scrap geometry like a sphere and try 'facetize' on it, it tesselates the geometry into a new primitive for ya
12:38.00``Erik(when it works)
12:38.13Yoshi47so if i have 4 bolts that i subtract from a block to make inner threads, i would facetize the 4 bolts and it would still work, but the 4 bolts that are going in the threaded hole i would have to facetize too so there is no overlaps?
12:39.06``Erikyou'd have, say, a region made up of some complex geometry, thousands of primitives
12:39.13``Erikthen you'd facetize, say, the region
12:39.21``Erikand get a single 'bot' primitive with roughly the same geometry
12:39.57``Erikit does not alter existing geometry, it creates new geometry, it's pretty safe :)
12:40.45Yoshi47oh so i would do it to my whole combination that contains the threads and bolts and bearings?
12:41.05Yoshi47i'll do a backup first
12:41.13``Erikwhatever you want to become a new single primitive
12:41.21Yoshi47cool
12:41.24Yoshi47im going to try
12:41.54``Erikfor the bearing, I'd probably facetize the inner runner, outer runner, each bearing, etc... so each bot is independent
12:42.26``Erikslaps an outboard motor on his car and sees if it stays floating all the way to work
12:43.36Yoshi47so facetize newpart old part, or should i use the options, i read them but don't know if i need to use them or not
12:49.55Yoshi47i think it froze? it was going through all the lines of parts but now its not moving and then menus in mged aren't doing anything either
13:02.06brlcadhttp://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayReleaseContent.aspx?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/09-10-2009/0005091867&EDATE=
13:03.58brlcadYoshi47: facetizing one of those bolts is going to take a very long time
13:04.07brlcadcheck your cpu, it's probably burning
13:04.19Yoshi47ok, then i'll let it go for the day or weekend!
13:04.21brlcadby "long time", possibly several hours
13:04.41Yoshi47shes only using one cpu, that leaves the other for me to use for other stuff so i can still work
13:04.58brlcadI think when I last ran it on his bolts, there were a handful of bolts in the model and it took 26 hours
13:05.19brlcadyeah, it's only a single-cpu process .. part why it's slow
13:30.21brlcad``Erik: heh, you'll probably appreciate this if you haven't seen it yet:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqz5dbs5zmo&feature=channel_page
13:46.16``Erikok, will farrel as neil diamond... that's... just... wrong...
13:48.54``Erikrecognized sandberg, had to dig a bit to figure out why heh
14:04.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 0362.80.184.178 07http://brlcad.org * r1619 10/wiki/Main_Page: /* Third-party Projects */
14:07.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1620 10/wiki/Main_Page: Undo revision 1619 by [[Special:Contributions/62.80.184.178|62.80.184.178]] ([[User talk:62.80.184.178|Talk]])
14:09.05``Erikspam spam spam and egg salad
14:09.17brlcadit wasn't really spam, just pointless
14:09.30brlcadsomeone added a link to wikipedia
14:09.33``Erikmost wiki updates seem to be spam or antispam lately
14:09.54brlcadbecause nobody is editing the wiki, sure :)
14:10.07``Erikthat alienware laptop is impressive, but I think would be a bad thing for 'selling' the software
14:10.21``Erikstill recent wounds from 'awe'... :)
14:10.35brlcadawe?
14:10.54brlcadoooh
14:10.54``Erik:)
14:11.12brlcadhow so though?
14:11.20brlcadit should be faster than the go cart
14:11.36``Erikyeah, but "speed" is secondary to "usability" at this point, I think...
14:11.36brlcadat 15 lbs iirc?
14:12.10brlcadtrue, but in terms of a portable demo .. if that's to start
14:12.17brlcador you're saying it's not time to start yet
14:12.37brlcadremember how long it might take to get said lappy :) ..
14:12.42``ErikI think there's a feeling that you need special hardware and an expert to use the software, one of the things I've busted ass to do is make it so it "just works", more along the apple thinking than the linux thinking, y'know?
14:13.40brlcadthe laptop should actually hope dispell the special hardware need
14:13.54brlcadi mean i thought a new mbp would work fine too and it's time anyways
14:14.41``Erikyeah *shrug* that laptop "looks different", though, *shrug* mebbe I'm being oversensitive to the perception thing :)
14:15.22``Erikis there an extra copy of msvc or something floating around? I want a winderz build and I can't coerce tcl to build sanely with --no-cygwin
14:15.46brlcadif nobody calls attention to it, it'll just be a black box
14:16.06brlcadhm, there is
14:17.01``Erikdrawing attention to "and look, you probably have one of these on your desk!" might be enough to snap any lingering misperceptions
14:17.46brlcador better yet, "hey and the mac sitting on your desk is more than twice as fast"
14:18.40brlcadmm.. /dev/cocoa libdm interface :)
14:19.04``Erik*shrug* I have other things to worry about before a big demo
14:19.06brlcadyou'd think I would have thought about that earlier given I have the code we'd need sitting in bz
14:19.09``Erikmostly how to shame the team upstairs :>
14:19.33brlcadi think the idea was for starseeker to make some rounds
14:19.53brlcadas part of a follow-up "here's a set of cool things", adrt being one of them
14:19.59``Erikponders using an "icanhascheezburger" image with "UR DOIN IT RONG" O:-)
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14:21.01*** join/#brlcad KingofCSU (n=king@222.247.155.229)
14:21.52brlcadsent http://bzflag.bz/tmp/wrong.jpg to his rower buddies
14:21.53``Erik(ya in today? I'm thinkin' about lunch already heh)
14:22.33brlcadnah, day off working from home .. so I can actually get this release out and some announcements sent
14:22.41``Erikaight
14:22.46``Erikmeditates on plugin architectures
14:25.41``Erikhehehe, "another shotline selection tool" :D
14:25.56``Erik(or "apple shotline selection tool"? my cocoa experiment :D)
14:28.06brlcadthe "ASS Tool" does have a certain ring to it
14:31.09Yoshi47brlcad, release?
14:31.19brlcadYoshi47: yes?
14:31.28Yoshi471.4.?
14:31.35Yoshi477.14.?
14:31.36Yoshi47i mean
14:32.19brlcad7.16.0
14:32.26Yoshi47what is the status on rotate and sweep?
14:32.32brlcadunchanged
14:32.40Yoshi47usable?
14:32.57brlcadrotate is almost complete, sweep isn't started
14:33.09Yoshi47ok
14:33.11Yoshi47thanks
14:33.37Yoshi47looking into xdmx right now so i can run brlcad ontwo monitors
14:33.38brlcadpacman87_ is unfortunately off smelling graduate roses and such :)
14:33.53brlcadotherwise sweep would be teh awesome by now :)
14:34.49Yoshi47would be the awesome? like done or usable?
14:35.51Yoshi47so what can i expect in 7.16 for functionality as a newbie, or am i an ammie
14:36.06Yoshi47when do i become a non-newbie
14:38.15Yoshi47peopleofwalmart.com
14:38.18``Erik"teh awesome", not "the awesome"
14:38.31``Erikteh intarwebz is SRS BSNES!!@~
14:38.33Yoshi47teh?
14:38.38Yoshi47yes im stupid
14:38.53``Erikno, the anticulture that came up with "teh" is stupid :D
14:39.01_clock_agriculture?
14:39.16``Eriksends Yoshi47 to http://icanhascheezburger.com/ for "re-education" O:-)
14:40.09``Erikclock: your bolts are brutal, but a fairly clever way to represent them O.o
14:40.56_clock_``Erik: hehe thanks
14:40.59_clock_feels proud
14:45.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35881 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (11 files in 3 dirs): remove obsolete shtuff (the repo remembers.)
14:46.47``Erikdamnit
14:47.45``Erik"svn commit" "ok, let me get rea" oh, wait, noooo C^^C^C^C^C^C" "fuck you, I'm gonna lock the term and send it ANYWAYS! PTBTBTBT"
14:48.13``Erikand now my tree is full of conflicts. *sigh*
14:48.58brlcadYoshi47: you can see the list of user-visible changes for each release at http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/NEWS
14:49.27brlcadinvestigates libdispatch
14:49.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35882 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/Makefile.am: remove obsolete shtuff (the repo remembers.)
14:51.26``Erikoh, the 'magic' parallel computation for osX?
14:55.52brlcadyeah, they open sourced it
14:56.57``Erikdistchecks to see what he broke
14:57.11brlcadremoving subproject authors and readme?
14:57.26``Erikamong other things
14:57.55brlcadthe other things aren't interesting :)
14:57.58``Erikworking towards more integration, less 'subproject'ness
14:59.51brlcadhm, okay
14:59.55``Erikwas thinking about merging the ChangeLog into the toplevel one, but *shrug*
15:00.00brlcadthose two aren't necessarily orthogonal, though :)
15:00.35brlcade.g., thinking of making several of the libs more proper sub-projecty
15:00.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35883 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (bench/ scripts/): remove obsolete shtuff (the repo remembers.)
15:01.24brlcadlibbu as a stand-alone project, libpkg, benchmark, etc
15:02.56``ErikXorg style?
15:03.04brlcadyeah, sort of
15:03.19``Erikhm
15:03.24brlcadstill unified, but a way to make them be stand-alone distributable
15:03.27``Erik"libbu? why not just use glib2?"
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15:03.47brlcadbecause libbu is better, of course
15:03.54brlcad(and it's closer to APR)
15:04.02``Erik*shrug* note the double quotes there ;)
15:05.20brlcadmaking them work well alone will help manage our growth complexity
15:06.03brlcadwith a formalized concept of a subproject, new devs can get involved with a portion that is "well defined"
15:06.19brlcadwithout needing to know the complexities and code creep
15:06.36``Erikamusingly, I argued long and hard on that for the upstairs project, but I'm not entirely sold on the approach for BRL-CAD :D
15:06.47brlcade.g., liboptical would make for a horrible subproject right now as it's horribly intermixed with librt
15:07.26``Erikyeah, ... the "DEPENDS" tag can be used to figure out the dependancy graph (if all targets were apropriately set)
15:07.48``Erik(adding that was as much for me to understand how things link together as the actual rule...)
15:07.50brlcadI also think we'll get more exposure for folks just looking for a simple library that does something well, for whatever their application is
15:08.45``Erikheh, it'd really screw with the brains of the people who think BRL-CAD and their projects *MUST* be released at the same time :>
15:08.53brlcadplus making a few of the core pieces stand-alone with reinforce keeping the API lines clean .. making sure DEPENDS stays clean
15:09.35brlcadlibbu, libbn, and libpkg are really easy ones to clean up (pkg is practically done)
15:10.35brlcadit's not to say separate tarballs would be required, there's still be the brlcad.tar.gz source bundle
15:11.05brlcadbut perhaps binary distros for sub-projects that are stand-alone
15:11.26``Erikhm
15:12.00brlcadwhere ./configure --enable-only-benchmark ends up with a binary dist tarball of just that stuff
15:12.50brlcadalong with sections for those projects on the website
15:13.06brlcadbrlcad.org/project or similar
16:46.08Yoshi47brlcad, i know your busy with the release but did you ever run the impeller render?
17:08.26brlcadYoshi47: I did, but I don't have it on hand at the moment
17:08.41Yoshi47oh ok
17:08.51brlcadyou're in the queue for a mailing announcment though :)
17:08.52Yoshi47both chrome and glass? or just one?
17:09.10Yoshi47ok
17:09.10brlcadyou saw the glass one right?
17:09.12brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/impeller.png
17:09.27Yoshi47the first one yes, but i redid the impeller from scratch for the tutorial
17:09.38Yoshi47didi you do my new impeller or the old one
17:10.02brlcaderm, the only one I had so it should have been the new one
17:10.04Yoshi47looks like the old one, the new one has a keyway
17:10.12brlcadotherwise I would have been able to give you the .g
17:10.29brlcado.O
17:11.20brlcadcan check the date/logs :)
17:11.59``Erik*burp*
17:12.06Yoshi47i  uploaded the txt file and you could recreate it line by line... but you decided to be lazy and try it in one command but that didn't work
17:12.52Yoshi47i never gave you the g code, i can if you want? but i figured you could just test out my tutorial lines like someone who would be learning it would
17:13.05CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35884 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bot/g_bot_include.c: Fixed a bug that was causing left-hand rule bots to raytrace incorrectly.
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17:16.09brlcadheh, not just lazy .. that should work as part of normal behavior .. something is wrong somewhere
17:16.30brlcadeither a bug in the sourcing command, or a bug in the script
17:17.19Yoshi47ah
17:17.39Yoshi47i tried it line by line in mged and it worked, and i did it 3 times
17:20.17brlcadthings to try turning off glob compat and trying line by line that way, or sourcing more and more of the file until it doesn't match, or simply reviewing the two outputs (manually and sourced) to see what is different
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18:33.50CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35885 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
18:33.50CIA-28BRL-CAD: bob fixed a bug with BoT ray tracing where it wasn't correctly identifying the
18:33.50CIA-28BRL-CAD: bot_orientation for left-handed BoTs, which made them render wrong. Swapped
18:33.50CIA-28BRL-CAD: bot_mode with bot_orientation and the problem is fixed. (those should be
18:33.50CIA-28BRL-CAD: typedefs so we could have gotten a type error).
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18:59.03indianlarrystarseeker: Can you convert the 'shape1' geom to step and put out under your 'bz' directory?
18:59.15indianlarryLeft my copy there...
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19:05.32starseekerindianlarry: sorry, moving today :-(
19:08.26indianlarrystarseeker: No biggy just playin...
19:10.00brlcadindianlarry: pm
19:11.47indianlarrybrlcad: pm?
19:11.54brlcad~pm
19:11.55ibotwell, pm is project manager, or private message, or perl mongers, or pathetic moron: when you see someone say pm, they're asking if you think that they're a pathetic moron, or something you don't do without asking permission
19:12.03brlcadheh
19:12.05brlcadprivmsg
19:13.20brlcadctrl-n :)
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19:23.37louipcprime minister
19:26.49brlcadpost meridian
19:27.06indianlarryphat man
19:27.26brlcadpunny monkey
19:28.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35886 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/librt/librt.vcproj: Mods to accomodate the move of arbn_brep.cpp
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19:35.19alex_jonipm = picometer
19:35.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35887 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
19:35.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: in rt_pipe_adjust() an only temporary invalid pipe segment will not be
19:35.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: considered as an error any more (reword for brevity, release prep, revision
19:35.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 35879). this addresses a problem reported by randerson303 on discussion forum
19:35.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: where a g2asc+asc2g would fail with a bot outer diameter must be larger than
19:35.28CIA-28BRL-CAD: inner diameter error.
19:35.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35888 10/brlcad/trunk/src/external/ProEngineer/proe-brl.c:
19:35.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: Even though proe spits out left-hand rule triangles, set things back to have
19:35.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: "no" orientation in case proe ever spits out a mixed bag of left and right hand
19:35.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: triangles. While we're at it, since proe seems to be spitting out left-hand rule
19:35.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: triangles (i.e. clockwise), reverse this to be right-hand rule (i.e.
19:35.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: counter-clockwise) so that shaded-mode works properly without having to run
19:35.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: bot_flip.
19:57.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35889 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob changed the pro/e exporter to output bots with a right-hand ordering, but the bot is labeled as unoriented just in case there are mixed-orientations being output for some objects.
20:06.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35890 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
20:06.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: need something like a 'select' command for libged so that there can be stateful
20:06.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: namable temporary selections/groupings of objects. this allows a command-line
20:06.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: mechanism for common gui selection operations (band select, clicked selections,
20:06.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: volumetric selections).
20:10.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35891 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: oh yeah, can replace sphgroup with select.
20:16.40brlcadindianlarry: ping
20:16.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35892 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
20:16.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: this is cool. bob implemented support for sub-object erasures where you can
20:16.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: d/erase an object within a currently displayed object. it will expand the
20:16.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: display list to the list of sub-objects still currently displayed (e.g. e all.g;
20:16.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: d all.g/platform.r; who; and it'll report all.g/cone.r all.g/light.r, etc).
20:29.24``Erikhttp://www.techcrunch.com/2009/09/10/yeah-ok-so-facebook-punkd-us/   nice
20:31.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35893 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob added bot_flip and bot_sync commands to archer (which should be nearly all or all of them now).
20:36.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35894 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
20:36.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: stephen 'el magnifico' kennedy wrote a procedural human geometry generator
20:36.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: (called 'human') that was added to mged and archer. in addition to a
20:36.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: command-line command, there's an initial (possibly non-functioning) archer
20:36.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: plugin gui too.
20:37.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35895 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
20:37.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: reword as it wasn't added to mged... stephen 'el magnifico' kennedy wrote a
20:37.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: procedural human geometry generator (called 'human') that was added to archer.
20:37.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: in addition to a command-line command, there's an initial (possibly
20:37.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: non-functioning) archer plugin gui too. implemented with bob's help of course.
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20:41.48brlcadwonders what the heck erase -o is supposed to mean
20:43.27brlcadgod, bob .. hope you didn't use 'o' for 'only' non-unique
20:44.19``Erikwant me to go slap him? :D
20:46.25brlcadcould ask him what it means .. I see it makes it add all attribute matches .. but I don't see why you'd not want to always do that
20:46.52brlcadtrying to pull together the release notes, that one make no sense
20:48.20``Erikhe's in the other building doing some compiles
20:48.36brlcaddarn
20:48.44brlcadokay, I'll just leave it out
20:48.59``Erik(ed said he should be back pretty soon)
20:49.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35896 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob added a -A option to the d/erase command that will erase objects that contain a specified attribute name=val match. not documenting the odd -o option just yet.
20:52.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35897 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: meester anderson fixed the bigE command which wasn't reporting the display list name post libged migration.
20:53.21brlcadgah, draw has a -A/-o too
20:55.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35898 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob added a -A option to the d/erase and e/draw commands that will erase/draw objects that contain a specified attribute name=val match. not documenting the odd -o option just yet.
21:06.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35899 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: style ws indent consistency cleanup
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21:26.28CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35900 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/g-adrt.c: remove dead file
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22:22.58``Erikbrlcad: talked to bob
22:23.26``Erikhe saw the -o and was just replicating, he didn't put any kinda focused thought into it
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090912

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00:19.58``Erikso, uh, yeah, uh, this one time, at band camp
01:42.52Yoshi477...
01:43.46``Erikssshhhhh
01:43.52Yoshi477watching a movie!
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02:07.26``Erikthis "russell brand" guy is actualy... not funny.
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04:09.06brlcad``Erik: thanks, sounds like bob :)
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12:51.48``ErikI wonder if gcd will stay small once it's ported to everything in existance
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13:59.31``Erikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BckqviVaWl0
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01:10.31Ralith``Erik: gcd?
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04:11.02``Eriklock thrash. Lame.
04:15.51Ralith?
04:16.57``Erikfirefox went retarded on me
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090914

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090914

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03:38.35Ralithbrlcad: hear about the Haiku R1 release?
03:39.26brlcadyes!
03:39.26brlcadgood stuff
03:41.52Ralithis hopeful that it will go places
03:42.14Raliththough I have to say, after getting into CL I'm still dreaming of a contemporary lisp machine.
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10:15.07d-loMernin all!
11:08.20Yoshi47hi, my facetize still going!
11:08.34d-lonice, whats the CPU time thus far?
11:08.41Yoshi47one sec
11:08.53Yoshi474219:41
11:09.15d-lowell, at least is hasn't crapped out yet :)
11:09.40Yoshi47how do you know that it hasn't? thats the question...
11:13.07d-loOh, brlcad either works or it doesn't.
11:13.19d-loif its still running, then its doing something :)
11:16.02Yoshi47ok well my window frozen and i can't see anything going on, but i'll take your word.
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14:48.08brlcadis excited to try haiku, but must resist...till release posts at least
14:48.21d-lovas dat?
14:48.26starseekerhehe
14:48.38brlcadd-lo: Haiku OS
14:48.47starseekerattempt at open BeOS
14:48.51d-lokk
14:49.03brlcadthey did more than attempt :)
14:49.06starseekerif it really does what BeOS does, it could be Awesome
14:49.41starseekerhasn't tried it in a long while - did they achieve the multithreaded responsiveness of the original?
14:49.42brlcadthey were the "Open BeOS" folks iirc, but changed their name to avoid problems
14:50.39brlcadbeen following them since inception, first goal was full API compatibility before performance
14:50.44brlcadand even ABI compatibility
14:50.56brlcadso old binaries, even proprietary ones, still work
14:51.10starseekernods
14:51.14brlcadfrom what I've seen, some is actually faster than original BeOS
14:51.26brlcadbut then other parts aren't yet, still a LOT of driver work that needs to happen
14:52.04starseekerif they can achieve the responsiveness and multimedia capabilities, and someone does some serious porting of the major open source apps to the platform, it could get really interesting
14:52.22brlcada lot of what beos did that was awesome has since been picked up by other systems (linux, mac, and even some aspects in windows)
14:52.36brlcadbut much is fundamental at a kernel level
14:52.41starseekernods
14:52.49starseekeryeah, that's what I was wondering about
14:53.00starseekerlast I recall, they were using some research kernel that had dubious support
14:54.16brlcadthey started with http://newos.org/
14:55.38brlcadwhich was written by one of the beos kernel devs
14:56.24brlcadcourse, that was forked more than a half-decade ago and the haiku team has been going non-stop on it since
14:56.29starseekerah
14:56.39starseekerso they're maintaining their own kernel
14:56.45brlcadyeah
14:57.02brlcadthey have distinct dev teams
14:57.12starseekermust concede it makes sense for such a project
14:57.26d-loam I the only one that considers the word 'fork' as one of the top 20 'easiest words to make a joke out of' ?
14:57.27brlcadyeah, way too much to do
14:57.53brlcadthere are more than a dozen teams, each team with anywhere from a couple to a dozen core folks working that area
14:58.47brlcadbasically one for each major area.  networking, filesystem, app api, game api, input devices, printing, gui, basic services, etc
15:00.29starseekerwow
15:01.41brlcadthings have been accellerating quickly ever since they were able to self-host back in April
15:02.18brlcadthat (and networking) was the biggest failing the last time I gave them a try about a year ago .. couldn't really compile anything without jumping major hurdles
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15:30.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35901 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: cliff made the 3dm-g importer create an automatic top-level combination, using an object name that is the same name as the output filename.
15:32.37starseekeroops, sorry - forgot about that
15:40.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35902 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
15:40.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: bob reversed the order of the copyeval command so that arguments are new
15:40.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: followed by old. in doing so, he removed the option to specify the path
15:40.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: elements individually (i.e. 'all.g box.r box.s' is no longer allowed. One must
15:40.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: instead specify it as all.g/box.r/box.s).
15:47.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35903 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (surfaceintersect.cpp surfaceintersect.h): ws/indent/comment cleanup. fix headers (they shouldn't be declared as relative locals, they're public headers).
15:54.18kanzurehm, how does surfaceintersect.cpp work?
15:54.21kanzurebounding box?
15:55.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35904 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/surfaceintersect.cpp: prefix MIN to minize conflict, remove unused safesqrt
15:57.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35905 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bot/bot.c: escape them all for consistency
15:58.23brlcadstarseeker: no problem, that's why I review everything :)
15:58.40brlcadjust had a massive backlog
15:58.43brlcadonly 15 to go!
15:58.55brlcadkanzure: it's a dev app just for testing purposes
15:59.08brlcadit has a couple surfaces in it and it attempts to evaluate the intersection of those surfaces
15:59.21brlcadjdoliner was working on it
16:02.32*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
16:05.59kanzureah okay
16:06.07kanzureactually I don't know why I suggested that it might be bounding box
16:06.18kanzurethat's overkill, you can just solve it algebraically
16:06.24kanzureer, in this case numerically
16:36.23brlcadyeah, which is pretty much what it's doing
16:36.36brlcadbut still non-trivial numerical solve
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17:39.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35906 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/clone.c: restore the <>'s as that's the convention to indicate a required parameter (as opposed to type the word 'object'), plus it should match the tcl help.
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17:45.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35907 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: cliff added a new 'bb' command that creates bounding boxes and/or reports bounding box dimensions. this new command will later replace the 'make_bb' command. (rewording for backlog change tracking)
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20:28.21brlcadRalith: you still need to upload your code
20:45.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03119.111.124.194 07http://brlcad.org * r1621 10/wiki/Template:Filepath:Wiki.png: New page: Click here to see writing service for [http://www.term-paper.biz/ term papers] with good quality.
20:45.26brlcadgrr
20:46.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/delete:
20:46.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: deleted "[[Template:Filepath:Wiki.png]]": content was: 'Click here to see
20:46.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: writing service for [http://www.term-paper.biz/ term papers] with good quality.'
20:46.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: (and the only contributor was
20:46.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: '[[Special:Contributions/119.111.124.194|119.111.124.194]]')
20:46.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:119.111.124.194]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
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21:30.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35908 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob added a -n 'no-action' option to the mvall command where it just reports the objects that would be affected/changed (similar to dbfind/search) without actually doing the move.
21:32.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35909 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: document the mvall -n option
21:35.13CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1622 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_mvall: document the -n option
21:40.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1623 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_mvall:
21:40.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1624 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_edcodes: document the -n option
21:42.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35910 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl): bob added a -n 'no-action' option to the mvall and edcodes commands where it just reports the objects that would be affected/changed (similar to dbfind/search) without actually doing the move/edit.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090915

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090915

00:10.11*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.48.127)
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08:50.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35911 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
08:50.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: john anderson improved bot ray tracing by adding vertex validation to its prep
08:50.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: routine. lee butler had reported sf bug 1592074 (Bot does not raytrace) where a
08:50.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 'count from one' indices were being used instead of 'count from zero' indices.
08:50.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: now it validates and reports the error.
11:05.55Yoshi47well, its still facetizing, 5652:18 mged, shouldn't the DB change size?
11:20.50*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
11:49.47brlcadYoshi47: no, it's mostly in memory processing until its done
11:49.57Yoshi47ah
11:50.21brlcadit'll finish.. it just might take a really really long time
11:50.35brlcadunless you run out of memory of course
11:50.37Yoshi47well its a nice break from thinking!
11:50.45Yoshi47memory not even half used
11:50.47Yoshi47i got 4gb
11:50.52brlcadthats good
11:51.13brlcadso not swapping
11:51.34brlcadyou don't see pageins do you?
11:52.18Yoshi47pageins?
11:52.50brlcadif you run top, it should show pageins and pagesouts
11:52.56brlcadcall counts
11:53.57Yoshi47i don't see anything like that in top
11:54.01Yoshi47where abouts?
11:55.45brlcadnot that important :)
11:56.11Yoshi47ok
11:56.30Yoshi47i have to work on setting up a mozilla udpate server on our domain
12:01.52louipcthat updates your mozillas?
12:02.34d-loI keep my mozillas out back, in a pen.
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12:20.20Yoshi47louipc, yep and mozilla product and since wer have at least 50 pcs here it would be a good idea to get firefox, thundebird, and our custom xulrunner to update from a local server
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12:50.07louipcwow nice
13:51.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1625 10/wiki/Compiling: remove superfluous options
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14:03.08brlcadwoot
14:03.10brlcadhttp://www.ohloh.net/p/brlcad/factoids/1890304
14:04.39brlcadand http://www.ohloh.net/p/brlcad/factoids/1890305
14:05.13brlcadinteresting (but not surprising) that our comment ratio is above average
14:14.31Yoshi47good job!
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14:29.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35912 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: fb-png gamma correction seems to be rather wrong (way too bright) or my expectations are wrong in that it's not even close to the fb image.
14:32.31starseekeryay, my primary language is no longer xml :-)
14:32.53``Erikhum, in creating an account, it eated all my kudos
14:43.22louipchehe cool
15:35.20Yoshi47starseeker, whats it now?
15:35.50starseekerC
15:36.34Yoshi47AH
15:36.39Yoshi47mine is baby talk
15:36.59starseekerheh
15:37.21starseekeryou mean Visual Basic? ;-P
15:37.24Yoshi47my little girl is starting to talk well if you can call it talk,
15:37.26Yoshi47nope
15:37.30Yoshi47i don't like VB
15:37.47starseekerme was thinking VB ~= baby talk
15:37.55Yoshi47i guess thats true too
15:38.09Yoshi47VB = M$. me don't like
15:38.34starseekerthe early talking stages are fun
15:38.39starseekerif a tad loud
15:38.40Yoshi47yep
15:39.17louipcNO
15:39.25Yoshi47i can block any noise out if i want too! ive delt with her winning during her bone marrow transplant for 3 months in a hospital i think i can stand anything now!
15:39.59starseekerlouipc: no?
15:40.06Yoshi47starseeker, NO
15:40.11louipcthat's like the most commonly used one
15:40.21louipcthat or mama
15:40.23starseekerah
15:40.27Yoshi47ours is heh!
15:40.43Yoshi47or DA or MOM
15:40.45louipc:D
15:40.52Yoshi47my sons was MOO
15:40.54Yoshi47lol
15:41.17Yoshi47he once said that in clinic to a bigger lady walking by, cause he said it too everything he sawk, she just laughed
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16:18.41kanzureany SWIG interfaces for brlcad out yet?
17:03.12yukonbob_kanzure: swig != interface. Is interface generator...
17:23.59``Eriknope, kanzure, but it'd be awesome if ya implemented :D
18:20.30``Erikathiest vegetarian zombie metal bands, awesome.
18:32.46kanzureplease link to said zombie metal bands
18:36.36``Erikhttp://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=822782
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090916

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090916

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00:46.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35913 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/rhc/rhc_brep.cpp: Get closer to hyperbolic shape, still nowhere near correct.
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02:16.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35914 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/rhc/rhc_brep.cpp: Still poking at hyperbola.
03:01.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35915 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/rhc/rhc_brep.cpp: Close, but no cigar. Also won't handle non-axis-aligned cases out of the box - scaling factor distorts control point and 'tilts' surface. May need to 'pre-correct' control point so scaling puts it in the right place.
03:01.53brlcadi think indianlarry has the cigar
03:02.04starseekerheh
03:03.04starseekerthat's getting close for the simple test case - may be something stupid, but I'll have to look in the morning
03:03.14starseekerhas a slight case of fried brain
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05:32.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r35916 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/surfaceintersect.cpp: Removed the assertion that was causing surfaceintersect to crash. Also added a direct test for CurveCurveIntersect instead of testing it throught surfacesurfaceintersect.
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14:06.06CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35917 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_X24.c: style ws indent consistency cleanup
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14:22.03``Erikreally?
14:23.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35918 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_X24.c: cannot mix (old) k&r and (new) prototype style declaration.
14:28.38brlcadyeah, that was just a typo .. had already found and fixed
14:33.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35919 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_X24.c: reorder to eliminate forward declarations.
14:39.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35920 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: style ws consistency cleanup
14:40.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35921 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: oop, also indent and formatting consistency
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14:44.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35922 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: reorder to eliminate need for forward declarations
15:04.38CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35923 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_ogl.c:
15:04.38CIA-28BRL-CAD: increase the maximum ogl framebuffer size from the previous 1280x1024 to
15:04.38CIA-28BRL-CAD: 16384x16384 (non-trivial to allow unbounded). moreover, eliminate the odd
15:04.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: shared memory break code that was in place for irix 4 and earlier. this should
15:04.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: fix a problem I ran into where I couldn't fb-fb from a large X framebuffer to an
15:04.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: ogl one.
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15:30.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35924 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/rhc/rhc_brep.cpp: Thanks to Ed, correct calculations determing control point and weight. First successful empty raytrace of rhc_nurb.s - rhc.s
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19:01.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35925 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
19:01.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: bob added back a -A option to the d/erase and e/draw commands that will
19:01.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: erase/draw objects that contain a specified attribute name=val match. also
19:01.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: added back -o which does the same thing, but does a boolean 'or' instead of an
19:01.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 'and' on matching attributes.
19:02.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35926 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep_debug.cpp: Need more detailed info on geometry of a surface - get the NURBS form of the surface and print out details.
19:04.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35927 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/libfb/if_4d.c src/libfb/if_ogl.c src/libfb/if_wgl.c):
19:04.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: remove the fake 'fullscreen' option from the ogl/wgl/4d interfaces. it only
19:04.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: sorta worked for old irix, but was still just a big window that happened to
19:04.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: match their maximum supported resolution. instead of just hacking some other
19:04.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: arbitrary size, just remove the option altogether.
19:16.51indianlarry````````````````````````````````````
19:17.24``Erikya don't say?
19:17.31indianlarry-
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19:28.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35928 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/libfb/if_wgl.c):
19:28.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: increased the upper bound limit for framebufferrs from a (now arbitrarily low)
19:28.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: resolution of 1280x1024 to 16384x16384. non-trivial to make it generalized to
19:28.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: arbitrary resolutions, so good enough. this affects ogl/wgl in particular.
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22:10.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35929 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Check in the early beginnings of epa brep support.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090917

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090917

01:04.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35930 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/epa/epa_brep.cpp: This seems to create an epa geometry for at least the axis aligned case, but for some reason fails to raytrace.
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01:43.22starseekergrowl.... why doesn't that work?
01:43.35brlcadbecause it's wednesday
01:43.42brlcadcode rarely ever works on wednesday
01:43.51starseekerheh
01:43.59``Erikwait, is it a full moon?
01:44.15starseekerthe wireframe looks great, indianlarry's surface plotting routine likes it...
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02:16.15brlcadthat is so weird.  i know it's my machine name, it's pingable, but i have no idea where in my house the machine is
02:16.59brlcadaha!
02:17.19brlcadfinds the device tucked away
02:28.29``Erikheh
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03:10.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35931 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/epa/epa_brep.cpp:
03:10.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: Back to the idea of using a known good surface to deduce a template - less
03:10.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: elegant but it DOES raytrace successfully. Will have to apply rotation and
03:10.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: translation operations to make this map to anything off axis, but that should be
03:10.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: doable.
03:13.04starseekerhrm.  might need to do a 'half parabola' curve to do a revolve, looking at the wireframe...
03:13.30starseekeroh well, if this proves general it can stay put, however ugly it may be...
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07:55.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35932 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/epa/epa_brep.cpp:
07:55.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: MSVC error: there is no sqrt(int), therefore which overloaded version of sqrt() should the compiler choose: sqrt(float), sqrt(double) or sqrt(long double)?
07:55.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: => changed the parameters (constants) type to double
08:01.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35933 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/CMakeLists.txt: forgot to update this after the reorganization of src/conf CMake files (revision 34269)
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11:34.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35934 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h:
11:34.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: begin providing means to dig into the gedp without the user needing to know the
11:34.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: internal structure directly. provide a GED_INITIALIZED() which checks for a
11:34.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: non-null wdbp. provide GED_LOCAL2BASE() and GED_BASE2LOCAL() that return the
11:34.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: database conversion factors.
11:35.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35935 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/glob.c: first example use of GED_INITIALIZED() to make the database open check return status conditional on the database being initialized.
11:42.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35936 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: ugh, ged_internal_call? really? this needs to die.
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12:23.14Yoshi478577:14 mged
12:30.00d-lohow complex was the geometry that you were trying to tessilate?
12:45.27Yoshi47a block with a couple of cut outs, and 6 threaded holes with the M8 bolt from the hex db
12:48.11d-loany or it BoTs?
12:48.36d-los/or/of/g
12:52.58Yoshi47BoT? whats the again, i haven't been using brlcad for a week now since this thing is going for so long
12:53.11d-lobag of triangles.
12:53.38Yoshi47mine are arb8 and the bolts are made out of trc
12:53.44Yoshi47lots of them
12:54.07d-loand I am begining to think that a) you were unlucky enough to find a bug, or b) something in your geometry is causing the tessilator to spend Loooots of time.
12:54.21d-lodid you try to tessilate the entire geometry at once?
12:54.25Yoshi47oh most likely,
12:54.54Yoshi47im facetize is that the same as tess
12:55.19d-loyes.
12:55.38``Erikthe bolt is insane, subtracting is will be very brutal on the tesselator
12:55.40d-loYou might try facetizing something lower in the heirarchy first.  See if you can figure out what is taking sooooo long.
12:55.41Yoshi47i just did the whole comb
12:55.57Yoshi47i don't want to cancel this after that much time do I?
12:56.09d-lohow many cpu's do you have?
12:56.24Yoshi47dual core and its using the one full time
12:57.04d-lothen make a copy of the db, and play with the copy.  run facetize on a few regions to see if you can figure out what geometry is causing the massive slow down.
12:57.23Yoshi47i guess i could
12:57.29Yoshi47well see later,
12:57.37Yoshi47need to do some work at work!
12:58.21d-lolata
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13:07.11_clock_lovely bug:
13:07.16_clock_Fixed an overflow in the timer handling. If the timer happened to be supposed
13:07.19_clock_to fire few milliseconds before the 32-bit ticks timer wraps around (every 49
13:07.21_clock_days) and the system were loaded so that before the trigger of the timer was
13:07.24_clock_detected, the system time wrapped around, then the timer would be missed and
13:07.26_clock_trigger again only in approximately 49 days.
13:18.48``Erikwindows 7 sp 1? :D
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13:54.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35937 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: richard weiss added a make_pnts command for importing point cloud data from files with a given specified column ordering.
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13:56.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35938 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/make_pnts.c: fix copyright and footer, file started in 2009. footer viline has to be at the end of the file or it's ignored.
14:01.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35939 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/make_pnts.c: minor formatting cleanup
14:23.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35940 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/make_pnts.c: reduce complexity. use bu_vls strings instead of manually manaaging c-strings. makes memory management easier and the custom whitespace routine can go away.
14:30.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35941 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/make_pnts.c: another manual temp c-string conversion to a bu_vls string
14:32.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35942 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/make_pnts.c: style consistency
14:56.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35943 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/make_pnts.c: the last format string refactoring is a bit more complicated given the logic being employed, but should be a faithful conversion to a bu_vls. needs more testing.
14:59.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35944 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/make_pnts.c: and now the main point of the refactoring, reduce complexity and entropy by eliminating the redundant whitespace trimming function now that all the places it was being called have been converted to a vls.
15:17.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35945 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
15:17.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: bob fixed a bug when raytracing an object that is displayed for editing within a
15:17.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: given subpath context (e.g. draw all.g/cone.r ; rt). the display lists weren't
15:17.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: being tracked as pathed objects, only lists of solids. now they're tracked as
15:17.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: display lists that refers to what the user asked for, each path with its own
15:17.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: solids list.
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16:14.05CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35946 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: clean up comment formatting, remove a big chunk of unused code for tops/buildtree/getchildren (which don't belong here anyways, need to use/refactor libged or librt).
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16:33.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35947 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: quell most pedantic compilation warnings
16:40.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35948 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Start getting set up for ehy brep.
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20:21.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r35949 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
20:21.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: Added getSurfacePoint() that uses the bounding volumes along with the
20:21.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: Newton iterate to find the surface UV of a point on the surface.
20:21.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: Fixed getCurveEstimateOfV() for decreasing 't' ranges.
20:21.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: Added getLeavesBoundingPoint() function to BVNode to return bounding
20:21.13CIA-28BRL-CAD: leafs that contain the point.
20:21.15CIA-28BRL-CAD: Initialized m_face to NULL for all BVNode constructors.
20:23.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r35950 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/brep.c librt/primitives/brep/brep_debug.cpp): Updated and added some libged 'brep' command options. Not in usage message yet so still consideer WIP.
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21:04.50CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35951 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ehy/ehy_brep.cpp: Use a revolve technique, which this time actually raytraces - seems to be generating a match for the ehy on-axis.
21:08.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35952 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ehy/ehy_brep.cpp: Er, scaling the other way.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090918

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090918

00:15.55*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
00:15.55*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.8 posted (20090511) || GSoC2009 Next Step: upload your code to google, wait for shirt ;) thanks everyone! || Logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/
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02:11.51brlcadyeah, probably something pretty simple too
02:12.15brlcadfb-pix && pix-png works fine .. fb-png gives ass
02:12.38brlcadboth assumedly try to apply a profile
03:35.12*** join/#brlcad schwinn434 (n=schwinn4@cpe-75-81-202-25.we.res.rr.com)
08:38.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r35957 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/CMakeLists.txt: updated CMake file to be consistent with Makefile.am
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12:00.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35958 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/librt/librt.vcproj: add ehy_brep.cpp to build
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15:11.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r35959 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep_debug.cpp: Added 2d UV outline to debugging brep_command.
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16:31.28brlcadhowdy jdoliner
16:31.35jdolinerhi
17:09.38*** join/#brlcad parigaudi (n=quassel@pd95b7f5e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
17:09.51parigaudihi
17:45.17brlcadhello parigaudi
18:04.06Yoshi47well isn't this a jolly place to be today!
18:20.24brlcadYoshi47: heh, always
18:20.45Yoshi47does anyone feel like workingon fridays afts
18:21.34brlcadafts?
18:22.16brlcadbeen pretty busy all week including today, and probably all weekend too :)
18:22.43brlcadmostly build testing, but it's coming together
18:55.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35960 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Add the beginnings of pipe_brep - not even close to working yet.
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19:33.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35961 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/ (15 files in 14 dirs): Updates for compiling a 64-bit windows version.
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21:27.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35962 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/asc2g/asc2g.vcproj: The previous mod should not have included a path change to makensis.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090919

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090919

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19:06.08``Erikhm
19:29.35``Erik"east virginia"?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090920

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090920

01:00.30*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
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02:12.20``Erik<PROTECTED>
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13:04.22``Erikheh, electric cars making artificial motion sounds now, amusing
13:45.52``Erikcurses, edits CMakeCache.txt and runs cmake again.
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19:27.43Ralith``Erik: kinda like CCD cameras?
19:29.05``Erikheh, I spoze
19:31.08Ralithshouldn't be hard to yank the wires for it.
19:31.24``Erikdepends on how it's all configured
19:35.19``Erikhttp://www.boners.com/grub/381564.html  O.O
20:13.25Ralithheh
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090921

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090921

00:28.34*** join/#brlcad D0iD0X (i=XD@187.37.66.52)
00:35.27Augusto_Pontois this software like Solidworks?
00:36.28Ralithdepends what you mean by 'like'
00:37.00Ralithit is related, but if you try to use it like you'd use solidworks you'd probably be very frustrated.
00:37.46Augusto_Pontohm
00:37.48Augusto_PontoI got it
00:37.56Augusto_Pontois there any open source software
00:38.00Augusto_Pontolike solid works?
00:38.53Ralithheekscade is probably as close as you're going to get UI-wise
00:38.57Ralithheekscad*
00:39.01Augusto_Pontohm
00:39.42Augusto_Pontoty
00:40.02Ralithit really depends what you want to do, and how willing to learn you are
00:40.18RalithBRL-CAD is very powerful.
00:40.27Augusto_Pontohm
00:40.42Augusto_PontoI want to make an project
00:40.55Augusto_Pontorelated to people who have special needs
00:41.33Ralithwhat it's *for* isn't really relevant
00:41.38Ralithwhat do you want to use BRL-CAD to do?
00:41.43Augusto_Pontoit's an wheelchair
00:41.49Augusto_PontoI want to model it
00:41.55Augusto_Pontousing an CAD software
00:44.19Augusto_PontoRalith
00:44.23Augusto_Pontois it possible?
01:02.53l1d3nbr0ckRalith
01:02.53l1d3nbr0ck=p
01:39.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r35963 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: Loosen up point closeness check in getsurfacepoint()
01:41.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r35964 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep_debug.cpp: more enhancements to brep debugging command
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11:05.24Yoshi4714243:20 mged
12:16.14``Erikswank
12:16.50``Erikgonna have a beer to celebrate when it hits 14400?
12:17.27Yoshi47if i liked beer,
13:16.46*** join/#brlcad JucaBlues (n=felipe@189.79.64.76)
13:18.02JucaBluesI have been developing a library called LibreDWG which is a free DWG parser
13:18.19JucaBluesI want to see some free CAD tools using my lib
13:18.37JucaBluesare you interested in importing DWG files in brlcad?
13:19.19brlcadit depends, really -- wouldn't mind having a dwg import but it'll be tricky to make it a faithful import given our focus on solid 3d entities
13:20.33JucaBluescould the license of our lib be an issue?
13:20.42JucaBluesit is GPLv3 or later
13:20.49brlcadJucaBlues: plus your license would unfortunately be a non-starter for us -- it'd have to be LGPL/BSD/MIT/etc
13:21.03brlcadyeah, I was just writing that :)
13:21.56brlcadwould you be able/willing to relicense it or is it unchangeable?
13:22.00JucaBluesI am tied to it, since the original lib was GPLv3 or later
13:22.10JucaBlueswe forked from another project
13:22.36JucaBlueswhich was an initial code for a dwg parser but awkwaredly written in esperanto
13:22.41brlcadhm, yeah
13:23.27JucaBluesnow we are reaching 100% of data structures decoding
13:23.37JucaBluesbut we are not dealing much with the semantics yet
13:23.57brlcadthat's pretty cool
13:24.06brlcadso is the main reason for the fork because of esperanto?
13:24.10JucaBluesI started to write an example application that converts 2d dwg files into svg
13:24.11brlcador some team dynamics
13:24.23JucaBluesyes, esperanto was the issue
13:24.37brlcadknow if they'd be willing to relicense?
13:24.51JucaBluesI'd have to ask for it.
13:27.05JucaBluesbut BSD and GPLv3 can be mixed, right?
13:27.16JucaBluesthe results being GPLv3, I guess...
13:27.29brlcadyeah, it's one-way
13:27.37brlcadso still not useful for our use
13:27.45JucaBluesok
13:28.01brlcadwe're presently LGPLv2 as a unified package
13:30.30JucaBluesa gplv3 dwg importer for brlcad maintained as a patch that one would apply on its local copy would be bad ?
13:31.05brlcadno, of course that wouldn't be "bad" .. just not a great long-term direction unfortunately
13:31.18brlcadnot something that we could ship unified, it would have to stay separate
13:31.34``Erikmight be easier to have an external project that could link to BRL-CAD's libraries for converting to .g ?
13:31.52brlcadbasically what he's suggesting
13:32.52JucaBluesare you aware of any GPLv3 compatible CAD?
13:33.52brlcadJucaBlues: we're the _only_ open source CAD system that's in full production use that I'm aware of
13:34.02brlcadthere are a few other smaller projects around though
13:34.14``Erikqcad community is probably the closest :/
13:34.45brlcadyeah, though qcad already uses dxf heavily under the hood
13:35.09_clock_I guess it depends on what is understood under full production use
13:35.30_clock_I use qcad on Ronja but don't know if it qualifies as full production use, production use or only use?
13:36.29brlcad_clock_: I meant 3d solid modeling CAD, they probably 'qualify' (whatever that means) but as a 2d system
13:37.04_clock_qcad is definitely 2D
13:37.33_clock_but they have those little arrows with numbers
13:37.42_clock_brl-cad didn't have it last time I checked
13:39.02brlcadstill don't have annotations, though been talking about adding them very recently (last week) and might start that up some basic support this/next week.
13:39.27_clock_brlcad: I would find that very cool
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13:48.02JucaBluesbut QCad is GPLv2 only
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14:04.07brlcadJucaBlues: yep, there really aren't other options except for a couple projects that are a lot smaller
14:04.19brlcadask them if they're willing to relicense
14:04.23brlcadworse they can say is no
14:04.28JucaBluesok
14:04.30JucaBluesthanks
14:04.46JucaBluesrelicense into what?
14:05.02brlcadideally BSD/MIT-style license
14:05.05JucaBlueswhich are the options for brlcad?
14:05.08JucaBluesok
14:05.12brlcadas a library that are the most flexible
14:05.27JucaBlueslgpl would be ok?
14:05.43brlcadLGPLv2 would work, LGPLv3 could possibly work down the road, but not guaranteed
14:06.13JucaBluesok, thanks
14:08.03brlcadapache/eclipse/mozilla licenses are all similar bsd/mit-style licenses
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14:35.33``Erik(hrm, qt somehow went and got... kinda impressive)
14:37.08Axman6how so?
14:37.25``Erikthe qt4 demo app has some nifty stuff in it
14:37.46``Erikback in "the day", qt was pretty ... tame
14:38.44starseeker``Erik: what that hell I just heard freezing over?
14:39.03``Eriknow if it were wrapped in a decent language... :>
14:39.18starseekerI thought you were a dyed in the wool Qt "non-fan"
14:39.35``Erikno, it'd just been a while since I'd looked at it
14:39.36starseekerthere are Qt-python bindings...
14:40.08``Erikand last time I looked, qt was drastically inferior on several fronts :) (cocoa is damn sexy, not sure how together gnustep is, though)
14:56.28CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35965 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sph/sph_brep.cpp: Erm, this should be pulling the magnitude of the vector, not the x coordinate...
14:58.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35966 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ell/ell_brep.cpp:
14:58.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: Switch to a 'distort the sphere' method of creating an ellipsoid - seems to
14:58.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: create a clean ellipsoid shape (although as yet unrotated/translated) but
14:58.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: doesn't clear all the raytrace issues - those appear to be something else.
15:50.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35967 10/brlcad/trunk/ (doc/deprecation.txt include/bn.h include/dm_color.h): deprecate the DM_X-specific dm_color.h header. use dm.h instead though making the functions that used to be in dm_color.h now be private given they are specific to just one dm.
15:52.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35968 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/ (color.c dm-X.c):
15:52.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: rename the dm_color functions dm_get_pixel, dm_copy_cmap, and
15:52.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: dm_allocate_color_cube to be specific to the X11 interface. they use X11
15:52.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: structures and are not generalized for libdm purposes (so we can remove them
15:52.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: immediately).
16:01.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35969 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp:
16:01.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: Add a counter to the newton iterator - there are some cases where we start out
16:01.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: in a bad direction and then 'straighten out' - rather than quitting the
16:01.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: iteration on the first bad directional move, give it several tries to straighten
16:01.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: out before killing it.
16:04.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r35970 10/brlcad/trunk/include/brep.h:
16:04.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: tighten tolerance back up on near hit/miss, was 0.05mm
16:04.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: now 0.001mm,small models 3mm piston where having problems
16:04.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: need to make relative to trim error or surface/face size
16:14.28CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35971 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: fugly hacks to make it compile without X11 headers installed. new png (ugh, ximage) and size commands busted things.
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20:34.55``Erikahhh
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090922

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090922

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01:01.22yukonbobbrlcad: online?
01:01.29brlcadnope
01:01.33yukonbobdamn
01:01.37yukonbobI'll check back later.
01:01.38yukonbob:P
01:01.53yukonbobI've got a question, and I bet you have the answer
01:02.02yukonbobnow that I think of it, I've got lots of questions...
01:02.09yukonbobbut perhaps 2 you can answer...
01:02.11yukonbobre: dsp
01:03.13yukonbob1 -- DEM co-ords signify the "space between" grid elems (i.e. the intersection points of a grid, not the squares) -- is this how dsp behaves as well?
01:03.59yukonbob2 -- can I / how-feasible-is-it to try to skin a DSP accurately (i.e. using a geotiff). Of course, accuracy is key.
01:05.07yukonbobgeotiff == tiff image, but with geo-specific meta data -- so one can place them accurately on a map, for example...
01:14.42brlcad1: yes.  2: not sure what you mean by skin it
01:14.58brlcadnever worked with a geotiff
01:17.00yukonbobwhat I want is to be able to lay the tiff down on the dsp, and if they're representing the same  square land-region, have the blue lines of the rivers match up in the gulleys of the dsp, etc, distorting as one would expect mapping a 2D tiff -> 3D dsp, but otherwise "fitting properly".
01:17.20``Erikso basically just texture it with specified uv coords?
01:17.48yukonbobright.
01:18.34yukonbobare there diff't model for how one can apply a texture map like that, or would it work buy default, or ??
01:18.57yukonbobi.e. if I have an 8x8 table, and an 8x8 table cloth, I can lay the cloth to cover the table.
01:19.33yukonbobbut if I put a candlestick on top of the table (without the cloth), and then try to lay the cloth, it won't cover edge-to-edge...
01:19.44yukonbobhow does the mapping work in brlcad?
01:20.28yukonbobis there a way to have a "magic" table cloth that, because it is 8x8, will cover the 8x8 surface...
01:21.32yukonbob, or would one sample  the tiff and then use mater to adjust the "grid"s of the dsp?
01:24.04brlcadyukonbob: there is a separation of the geometric shapes and rendering properties such as texturing
01:24.34brlcadthe tiff data can be converted to a height field directly
01:24.57yukonbobtell me more
01:25.08brlcadthe tiff can also be applied as a texture pretty easily as well with a shader
01:27.24yukonbobresearches height fields. Looks like what I need. Thx brlcad, ``Erik
01:27.50brlcad"dsp" is our name for a height field
01:27.51brlcaddsp == "displacement map"
01:27.52yukonbobright -- displacement map.
01:28.17yukonboband that can have a (say) 800x800 TIFF, and generate an 800x800 heightfield then?
01:28.22brlcadyes
01:28.28yukonbobawesomenessus
01:28.43yukonbobI've only generated grey blobs so far, myself.
01:28.45brlcadthough to create a dsp, all it cares about is the raw binary values
01:28.53brlcadso you'll have to convert the tiff
01:29.05brlcadnothing tricky, but a couple of data conversion steps
01:29.22brlcadprobably tiff -> png -> bw
01:29.41yukonbobbrlcad: don't know if you remember,  but playing w/ dsp/DEMs was one of my first exercises; at the time, I tickled a nasty memory leak -- was that ever corrected?
01:29.52brlcadyeah, I remember
01:29.55brlcadit wasn't a leak
01:30.00brlcadit was an inefficiency
01:30.06brlcadusing more than expected
01:30.16yukonbobnods.
01:30.24brlcadtaking up 160 bytes per cell iirc
01:30.27yukonbobtuned up, or as was?
01:30.54brlcad~(160 * 800 * 800) / 1024 / 1024
01:30.55ibot97.65625
01:31.14brlcad97MB shouldn't be a problem :)
01:31.38yukonbobwhen I threw 800x800 out, that was only for sake of argument ;)
01:31.47``Erik~1/0
01:31.50``ErikO:-)
01:31.53yukonbobhehe.
01:32.12yukonbob<PROTECTED>
01:32.13ibotit has been said that 2^2 is a bad question.  You want 2**2.
01:32.15``Erik(it still pings, musta ignored that)
01:32.42yukonbob~ lart self
01:32.42ibotacting on orders from an unspecified client drags self into court suing for $200 million
01:33.23yukonbobbrlcad: so is still consuming same amt. memory as previous, or was there re-coding in that inefficiency?
01:34.02``Erik~1<<5
01:34.29yukonbobremembers sections of Pugeot Sound were un-renderable for self at the time...
01:34.56``Erikmebbe it's cuz the puget sound is just too cool for ya
01:34.57``Erik:D
01:35.09yukonbobactually, now that I think of it, brlcad, you had nice huge dsp's that were of larger grid, built from older brl-cad.
01:35.11``Erik(my old stompin' ground, grew up on whidbey island)
01:35.45yukonbobcourtney love tells me Olympia sucks
01:35.59``Erikyeah, olympia sucks, but courtney sucks more
01:36.02``Erik:D
01:36.25``Erik(shit, courtney has probably sucked most of olympia *cough*)
01:37.21brlcadyukonbob: i don't think it's changed, but your best bet is to just give it a go and see how it behaves for your data
01:37.45brlcadit's been used several times over since then for various projects with complete success
01:38.35yukonbobbrlcad: sounds good. thx.
01:39.36``Erikif it's a memory related issue, make sure swap is enabled and reasonably large if you use linux. Last I checked, the OOM murder code in linux is... odd. :)
01:39.39yukonbobone more q: re: png -> height field -- will the various heights map to a single index so all "0" heights == a certain shade of blue, all "30" height map to same shade of green?
01:39.57``Erik->bw, greyscale image
01:40.13yukonbob``Erik: good point. I'm personally running BSD,  but I'd hate to run in on another machine and have it killed after hours of chugging...
01:40.19starseekerI think he wants to use the image data to "shade" a dsp?
01:41.08brlcadyukonbob: the intensity values of the grayscale image will correspond to height values (you set scaling parameters on creation)
01:41.12yukonbobright -- i.e. Imagine an image with a river, a block that is supposed to be a forrest, a road, etc.
01:41.23brlcadyou'll then apply whatever colors as a texture
01:41.32``Erikthen there'll be two image files I think, one for the heightmap in bw greyscale, the other in pix for the texture
01:41.54brlcadthe projection shader will make the colors map directly onto the surface giving whatever colors for each cell as you want
01:42.24yukonbobwill have to experiment and get experience; it's not making sense to me, but it appears to me (by you guy's comments) it's possible... I just need to play, wrap my head around the process.
01:42.50yukonbobthanks again, gentlemen :)
01:42.57``Erikgood luck O.o
01:43.11yukonbobcheers
01:43.55brlcadyukonbob: a related tutorial is the ebm (extruded bitmap)
01:43.56brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/EBM
01:44.09yukonbobnice. thx :D
01:44.56brlcadyou'll want a dsp instead of an ebm, but it covers basic file conversion
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11:18.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1626 10/wiki/EBM: Quick typo fix.
11:19.19``Erikexcessive bowel movement? O.o
11:23.24d-loYes, ``Erik, we have a turd primitive in BRL-CAD.
11:24.35``Erikdamn, there goes that brilliant new use for metaballs
11:26.55d-lo'brilliant' was quite the word I was going to use lol
11:28.15d-los/was/wasn't/
11:44.20``Erikfreudian slip? :D
11:44.45d-loyeah... that's it! Right!
11:44.47d-lo:P
11:46.34``Erikblah, 7:45 already
11:46.42``Erikputs pants on and starts driving
11:47.21d-lothats a good order to do things :)
12:41.04``Erikoh, wait, I listed those as an unordered set, there's supposed to be an order?
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13:06.41``Erikhttp://www.subblue.com/blog/2009/9/20/quaternion_julia
13:07.28starseekerstandard English language convention generally implies temporal coherence in left to right ordering barring specific notation of other organization
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13:48.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35972 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Start to stub out what is needed for testing a sketch brep conversion.
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14:02.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35973 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/csgbrep.cpp: Erm, uncomment some of the other stuff besides sketch...
14:32.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35974 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/csgbrep.cpp: few tweaks so a normal sketch is also generated for comparison.
14:33.28CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35975 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: Start working through the early phases of the sketch generation logic - will need to have the correct 'environment' set up before it's even worth looking for loops.
14:34.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r35976 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/color.c: dm_copy_cmap has been changed to _X_copy_cmap.
15:25.19brlcadhehe, he's probably gonna regret that
15:25.31brlcad(victor subscribed to commits)
15:32.26``Erikmwahahahaha </evillaugh>
15:32.36``Erikor is it (evillaugh "Mwahahhahaha")
15:43.44d-loSo in the next commit message, someone should put "hi victor!"  ?
15:46.36brlcadheh
15:46.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35977 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/attach.c: minor cleanup, remove dead code
15:58.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35978 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.c: more consistency cleanup while reviewing attach. (hi victor!)
15:58.59d-loha!
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17:02.18``Eriknow EVERY commit message needs " (hi victor!)" at the end
17:11.46starseeker``Erik: technically, it's <laugh mode='evil'>Mwahahahahaha</laugh>
17:20.02``Erikor <laugh><evil>Mwwahhahahaha</evil></laugh>
17:20.59starseekerof course, the truly proper language for an evil laugh has to be Microsoft Visual Basic
17:21.05``Erik(defclass evil (alignment) ()) (defgeneric laugh ((self evil)) "Mwahahahaha!")
17:21.08``Erik((())(()(((()(())(())))
17:21.12starseekerheh
17:21.13``Erik(*Y*)
17:21.33``Erikfires up vim before he hurts himself or someone else
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17:47.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35979 10/brlcad/trunk/include/brep.h: Tighten up the edge miss tolerance some more - really need to do something adaptive to model scale here.
17:47.18``Erikhum http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1132
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18:48.05brlcadhuh, i swear i've read that before
18:48.13brlcadyet says it posted today
18:49.23d-locopy paste job perhaps?
18:57.10brlcaddunno, don't see other refs to it
18:57.28brlcadmaybe just a really similar posting -- those are very common sentiments
18:57.45brlcad*very* common :)
19:15.12Ralith?
19:16.15starseekerold school guys not caring for newer paradigms that hide many of the details
19:16.38starseeker(and/or don't deliver what they promised to deliver)
19:17.01Ralithah.
19:17.22``Erikì
19:22.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35980 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
19:22.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: add a '-a' option to mged that allows users to specify a display manager to
19:22.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: attach to. this avoids the attach prompting seen in interactive mode that
19:22.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: should help systems that prompt for an attach device even when non-interactive.
19:22.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: expand the docs with examples including filling in details on the -d display
19:22.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: option as well. note that you cannot (presently) invoke multiple attachments
19:22.54CIA-28BRL-CAD: due to the way display manager creation is presently deferred without a little
19:25.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35981 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: Hmm. How about using the plane to convert the 2 space coordinates to 3 space coordinates...
19:32.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35982 10/brlcad/trunk/include/brep.h: this header file is included by rtgeom.h for C compiles as well, so no-go on the //isms
19:33.15``Erik"I tell you what, if I find out I'm having a baby, I'm coming after you" O.O ya overhear the damndest things around here
19:34.24starseekeris afraid to ask...
19:35.03d-lolol
19:35.11brlcadstarseeker: that option is actually kinda odd .. don't know if someone was planning on adding it at some point, but the docs had -c [nu|ogl|X] documented (which afaik has never been valid)
19:35.26starseekerhmm, that is od
19:35.29starseekerer odd
19:35.55brlcadsingle char args with an optional param aren't common convention either
19:36.19brlcadmakes me think someone was just thinking of adding it
19:37.07starseekerI always did wonder why there wasn't some way to specify that without the extra step...
19:37.23brlcadwould be cool to expand the deferred startup to accept multiple attachings, even with different display settings
19:37.49brlcadmged -c -a ogl -d secondhost:0 -a X -d third:1 -a ogl
19:38.10brlcadbut would have to make a container that stashes the attach type and current display value
19:38.26brlcadso when they're later undeferred, they all create appropriately
19:40.52brlcadanyone have python on windows with a brl-cad install handy?
19:42.33starseekerbrlcad: whoops, sorry about the comment
19:43.14starseekerreminds himself to be nice to the C side of the street
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20:25.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35983 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: OK, first baby step - create straight line edges from the line segments. They line up, so checkpoint.
20:41.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35984 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: Add edges from full circles.
20:48.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35985 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.c: allow a display manager to be attached even if we're running the tk gui -- make sure we attach if the user requested it.
20:49.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35986 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/mged.xml: pedantic blank line was added (so error messages don't overlap the prompt)
21:00.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35987 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: Punt on arcs for the moment - logic is surprisingly complex to extract what is needed to get a 3rd point for the opennurbs arc routine. reference where in sketch.c to look for later.
21:01.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35988 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (attach.c cmd.c cmd.h mged.c mged.h): refactor los tres amigos into one function to remove code duplication. propagate a const as consequence.
21:02.35CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35989 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (cmd.c cmd.h): more const propagation
21:03.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35990 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: if you attach a display manager in tk-mged, kill the window, then quit, mged crashes on exit. pretty likely that mged is trying to destroy the already destroyed window, of course. observed on osx 10.4
21:08.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35991 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (dm-X.h dm-ogl.h dm-rtgl.h dm-tk.h dm-wgl.h): dm_color.h is obsolete (albeit marked deprecated), don't include it.
21:15.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35992 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: Woot. Get the bezier stuff working - can now draw all the lines of the default sketch object. Now for the hard part - building trims and loops.
21:20.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35993 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.c: quell all pedantic compilation warnings (sans long-long and format)
21:24.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35994 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.c: lotta dead code elimination.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090923

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090923

00:00.12*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedyII (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
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11:51.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Jlfranks 07http://brlcad.org * r1627 10/wiki/Main_Page: /* Getting started */
12:02.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Jlfranks 07http://brlcad.org * r1628 10/wiki/Forums: Added a list of links to BRL-CAD Forums
12:12.18Yoshi4717161:21 mged
12:13.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Jlfranks 07http://brlcad.org * r1629 10/wiki/Main_Page: /* Getting started */
12:14.46brlcadYoshi47: heh, that's pretty insane
12:15.04brlcadso do you let it keep going, or pull a knife?
12:15.13Yoshi47its a good thing im not running m$
12:15.18Yoshi47i don't know
12:15.19brlcadrest assured, it should eventually finish :)
12:15.24Yoshi47i might have to restart my X
12:15.36Yoshi47eventually...
12:15.44Yoshi47i might retire by then or get fired
12:15.45brlcadthe time is exponential based on the complexity of the mesh
12:16.12Yoshi47oh i just seen the cpu dip
12:16.18Yoshi47onto the next part im guessing
12:16.37brlcadit was just taking a breather
12:16.48Yoshi47ah, well im compiling too!
12:17.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Jlfranks 07http://brlcad.org * r1630 10/wiki/Main_Page: /* Getting started */
12:19.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Jlfranks 07http://brlcad.org * r1631 10/wiki/Main_Page: /* Getting started */
12:21.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1632 10/wiki/Documentation: added installation instructions, link to INSTALL file
13:09.23``Erikbrlcad: nikki is trying to set up lunch at japan house, ya gonna be in the area?
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13:14.37brlcad``Erik: okay, yeah
13:42.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35995 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.c: this is wrong and breaks things for classic mode, but commit it now so I'll have it on the road to work on later today. there's a problem where it prompts for attach too many times (among other outstanding issues).
13:42.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35996 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/color.c: don't include dm_color.h
13:44.42Yoshi47japan house?
13:51.06brlcadYoshi47: local sushi place
13:51.28Yoshi47sushi... ick, who's nikki?
13:51.43brlcadjust some crazy girl
13:51.51Yoshi47brlcad programmer?
13:51.56brlcadheh, no
13:52.13Yoshi47in your building?
13:52.18brlcadjust a mutual friend
13:52.31Yoshi47ah
13:53.30Yoshi47you know anyone that can hack in and revert the 1 trillion dollar print?
13:54.16Yoshi47then hire MIB to brainwash everyone that it didn't happen so the US dollar can go up again
13:54.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35997 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: wrap declarations in braces to avoid case label cross initialization error
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14:57.22brlcadYoshi47: I already answered that question to you, hired them, then had them wipe your memory
14:57.40Yoshi47thought so
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15:12.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35998 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: Think about loop building using the ON_Brep edges - simpler than trying to do it with the csg data structures and then attempting translation.
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16:04.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35999 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp:
16:04.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: Going to need 2d and 3d curves for all the sketch components - need the surface
16:04.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: extents to get uv coordinates. Start building 3 space bounding box from
16:04.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: components to get information about what extents the surface will need to have.
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16:42.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36000 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: Start trying to create appropriate 2d curves for trimming purposes.
16:52.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36001 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: hyp tesselation is producing something that doesn't raytrace
16:54.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36002 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/hyp/hyp.c: Removed a few unused variables. Identified a problem in the tessellation routine (i.e. RoS and invRoS are being used without initialization.
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19:07.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36003 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: OK, starting to build loops, but trims aren't valid.
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19:33.52brlcadinteresting, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7GErbdNRrE&feature=player_embedded
19:34.23brlcadwhole new realm of a CAD model catalog :)
19:44.29Yoshi47neat
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21:10.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36004 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: Still not getting valid loops. Grr.
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21:25.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36005 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: OK, the wrong loop is getting removed. need to sort this out.
21:26.38CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36006 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/ (read-rtlog.c rtregis.c): refactor, cleanup, indent, sort.
21:28.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36007 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: Er, yeah - use m_c2i from the trim. Doesn't fix the problem but does duplicate correctly.
21:40.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36008 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: Ah, of course - inserting the outer loop at the beginning of m_li, so bump the count by one to get rid of the correct loop.
21:45.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36009 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewpp.c: more format tweakage.
21:51.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36010 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: Crud, will have to rethink edge creation.
22:39.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36011 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: OK, progress (sort of) - it wasn't edge creation, but a disconnect between edge and 3d curve selection. Now the complaint is m_T[0] being different from the start of the 3d curve.
22:41.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36012 10/brlcad/trunk/src/fb/fb-png.c: clean up formatting, indent, style.
22:46.21louipcehh americhip doesn't look as good as I was expecting
22:46.38CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36013 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/pix-png.c: clean up formatting, indent, style.
23:18.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36014 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/iges/n_iges.cpp: swap it back to manifold solid brep objects instead of rational bspline surfaces while testing import.
23:21.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36015 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/dem-g.c: eliminate the mk_dsp2() stub by just calling mk_dsp() now that it has whatever change necessitated creating the fork. also applied some commment cleanup.
23:36.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36016 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: Not correct, but the error distance changed so it's clear that changing the surface domain will have an impact.
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23:41.05CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36017 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/util/pix-png.1 src/util/pix-png.c):
23:41.05CIA-28BRL-CAD: add a -g gamma correction option to pix-png similar to fb-png so that a user can
23:41.05CIA-28BRL-CAD: override and specify a desired gamma value. change the default behavior from
23:41.05CIA-28BRL-CAD: writing out a hard-coded 0.6 gamma value to instead not write out any gAMA chunk
23:41.06CIA-28BRL-CAD: information (via a default negative value). this lets it display the same
23:41.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: intensity pixel values on a host system as the originating pix data and avoids
23:41.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: the (semi-arbitrary) 0.6 magic value that 'does not quite match..'
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23:46.16CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36018 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/: ignore the generated rtwizard script
23:49.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36019 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/fb/fb-png.1 src/fb/fb-png.c):
23:49.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: default to no gamma correction, no gAMA chunk, so that the png pixel values
23:49.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: should match what was in the framebuffer. looks like 1.0 is overpowered for
23:49.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: mac, 0.6 is closer but still slightly too bright. turning the chunk off gives
23:49.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: correct pixel values. turns out the -g option was never documented either, so
23:49.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: document it along with the new info. this should reduce surprises due to
23:50.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: unexpected color shifts in output images.
23:52.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36020 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS:
23:52.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: the fb-png gamma correction 'bug' turns out to not be a bug after all, just a
23:52.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: bad default gamma value coupled with an undocumented command-line option.
23:52.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: either way, it's changed/fixed now that no gAMA chunk is getting written by
23:52.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: default.
23:57.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36021 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: Hmm - back to 22.36 for the offset. Something odd here...
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090924

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090924

00:39.57*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=Matthew@dhcp-143-147.mcme-students.carleton.ca)
01:53.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36022 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: Take a stab at a cleaner loop generation, but still messed up. To Be Continued.
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13:33.02``Erikhm
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13:45.07brlcadso .bz (the hardware) is probably going to get moved tomorrow, with an hour or two downtime
13:45.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36023 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewpp.c: move "#define pchar" up to before the first use (assuming this was the intent)
13:46.21``Erikthe old .bz? not worth forcing migration just yet?
13:48.20``Erik"edward scissorhands - the emo wolverine" heh
14:41.54CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36024 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: Fixed a typo.
14:42.15brlcadit's plenty worth it, but they're going to rerack it regardless tomorrow though
14:53.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36025 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: Argh. j, not i.
14:55.06starseekerslaps self with a dead trout for such a stupid error
15:15.54CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36026 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/dem-g.c: quell warnings about using the c99 round() function by just defining a simple closest rounding function.
15:19.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36027 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ (dem-g.c iges/brlcad_brep.cpp): make it a symmetrical rounding function, always away from zero, even though these should all be positive numbers here. just in case someone tries to copy this..
15:20.45starseekerhmm, how interesting... edge tolerance errors even with the trimming curve order right...
15:25.50CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36028 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/tclcad.c: why are those two disabled? need to test.
15:28.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36029 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: Well, at least the sketch dump output looks closer...
15:46.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36030 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/news2tracker.sh: stuff the stray date debugging statement into VERBOSE level 1
16:01.16CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36031 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: Add some testing stuff - arcs are being a problem child, gotta figure out what's going on.
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22:42.52``Erikblah.
23:23.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36033 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: Ah, finally - switch from doing things manually to using the NewPlanarFaceLoop routine, which involves recognizing loops using curves rather than edges. Can now generate a clean brep face from the example sketch.
23:40.54brlcadkudos
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23:58.03``Erikhm
23:59.58``Erikhas a feeling that this new prioritization system has two critical faults; the time aspect is over-represented in the algorithm and the "time on task" ignores things like "paid" work, interruptions, cost of business, etc (36% is rather... arbitrary, and surely cannot be uniform among all members)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090925

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090925

00:00.12``Erikthere, ah went an' dun sed it
00:02.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36034 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Add an extrusion brep routine, now that sketch is working.
00:02.10``ErikI might resurrent that "simple timer" thingie, and mebbe have it so any programming->else->programming moves 30m from programming to else to compensate for wind/unwind O.o
00:50.18brlcadeven with time over-represented (which was rather intentional), that just means all the things that can be done really quickly that we think will have a decent payoff will get done up-front
00:50.30``Erikaight
00:50.33``Erik*shrug*
00:50.54``ErikI'm just nervous about... expectation management?
00:51.02brlcadpart of the point is to minimize how far in advance we're having to estimate time .. even if we get "less than a week" wrong .. it's still probably gonna get done
00:52.09``Erik"technical debt", too
00:52.32``Erik<-- just noting his concerns
00:52.38brlcadnods
00:53.17``ErikI think I've been hooked with 2 things this cycle :/ the surprise bug from russ is... concerning
00:53.33brlcad36% is completely arbitrary and actually unimportant -- could have picked any random number out of our ass between 1 and 28
00:53.36``Erik(why the hell didn't they msg me earlier? are they talking about the scalloping bug I fixed?)
00:54.02brlcadyeah, not enough info there
00:54.05brlcadprobably
00:54.16brlcadhis info does tend to be a quarter late when it comes to our bugs
00:55.31brlcadthe burn rate follows our actual effort, so it will auto-adjust even if our estimates are always wrong
00:56.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36035 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: mention scalloping bug in metaballs.
00:57.07brlcadif 10 units of work take 20 units of time, our estimates are low; if we only complete 5 units of work, our burn rate needs to be lowered
00:57.41``ErikI wonder if the overhead of a context switch should be called out explicitely
00:57.42brlcadthe two then converge over time as estimates are adjusted and the burn rate follows our capacity
01:00.08``Erik*shrug* we'll give it a whack, as it goes, our different impressions will be expressed until it normalizes, we'll see what happens :) ain't no use spending more than 10 seconds mentioning a concern until we're a few cycles deep, just wanted to throw my view out nice and early
01:01.15starseekergrowls - looks like revolve is going to take a slightly different version of the sketch code
01:01.23starseekerfigures
01:01.38``Erikstarseeker: relax, step away, work on something like, say, fractal quaternions instead :D
01:03.22starseeker``Erik: heh
01:03.55``Erikyou disagree? that was an awfully cool article :)
01:06.03starseekerindeed :-)
01:06.21starseekerisn't sure what he would work on on that though
01:18.04``Erik<-- not sure how it'd related to BRL-CAD, just saw the article on hn, thought it was awesome, had raytracing AND quaternions... AND fractals... AND pretty pictures
01:23.05starseekermight make a very interesting debugging tool...
01:24.23``Erikdebugging, or stress test?
01:26.06starseekerheh - probably both
01:26.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36036 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Not fully worked out yet, but this does do a revolution of sorts.
01:28.28starseekerok, that'll do for tonight
01:28.55starseekerreflects that revolve isn't fully "done" as a supported primitive anyway...
01:29.20starseekerthat leaves pipe, dsp, hyp and part
01:31.16CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36037 10/isst/trunk/src/load_g.c: gtk.h is no longer required for isst.h
01:31.30starseekerraises his eyebrows
01:31.32starseekernice
01:31.54``Erikshut up
01:31.55``Erik:D
01:32.16brlcadheh
01:33.09starseekerdecides he'd better hit the road...
01:34.30``Erikat vodka thirty? eh?
01:37.11starseekerheh
01:37.55starseekerok, lock and load (doors and cars that is...)
01:39.28``Erikhm
01:52.54``Eriksunny beaches.
01:53.17``Erikwhy won't this sneeze happen?
01:59.00``Erikso, uh, yeah
01:59.08``Erikur mom, r0x ur s0x 0ff
02:00.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36038 10/isst/trunk/src/ (Makefile.am load_g.c): this is now a lib func
02:01.26``Erikstupid effin' rejection. :/
02:01.55``Erikyet more ways svn sucks.
02:03.10``Erikblank, ready prompt... that is NOT the right way to signal error!
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10:31.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36039 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/qray.c: another instance where not being initialized is apparently okay. seems like wrapper material.
10:47.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36040 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: the new mged -a attach option at least provides a work-around to the python script prompting on windows. remove until we know more
10:52.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36041 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (11 files in 3 dirs): migrate isst load_g in, and pull in tie.h as needed.
10:53.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36042 10/brlcad/trunk/ (BUGS TODO): technically, nmg raytracing so slowly was confirmed to not be a bug, just a really inefficient implementation. remove from bugs and make it a todo item to fix it.
10:56.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36043 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: bob fixed the problem with contextualized objects not working right with various mged commands and rt.
11:05.35CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36044 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: malloc and friends no longer take an unsigned int, now taking a size_t. soon most of the rest of librt will be following suit.
11:16.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36045 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (6 files in 2 dirs): shift file loading into the library
11:25.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36046 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
11:25.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: whoosh. massive update to remove items that are either now complete or no
11:25.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: longer relevant. in brief, includes pnts input, nurb bb, humans, adrt
11:25.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: shotlines, primitive-to-breps, news2tracker, obj-g, de-mysql, isst callbacks,
11:25.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: bot scripts, geometry syndicator, rtgl, and coils.
11:31.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36047 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: promote/demote next iteration items. some missing, but accounting for mine (refactoring librt, warnings, nmg->brep, and annotations)
11:32.52``Erikponders renaming src/adrt to src/libadrt, librender.so to libadrt.so, and moving adrt_master and adrt_slave into src/remrt
11:51.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36048 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
11:51.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: add a slew of missing todo items, pulled from recent discussions and tracker
11:51.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: items. included is 64-bit port to windows, finishing obj-g, gui for repairing
11:51.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: bot normals, machine independent dbupgrade, converting manpages to docbook,
11:51.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: searchable help gui in mged, support to mv for rename mapping files, options to
11:51.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: bot_dump for normals, push/xpush stopping at the region level, consolidating
11:51.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: them, working on rtarea, and sca with three args.
11:51.53brlcadand with that, I think the docs are up-to-date again
11:53.51brlcaddon't like the mixing with remrt part .. that's a specific tool with a legacy of its own
11:54.16``Erikmy intent is to smear adrt into the fabric of BRL-CAD
11:54.26brlcadsrc/libadrt and src/adrt wouldn't be too bad, but .. seems to be little gain
11:55.06``Erikthere is no technical gain, it's a matter of realigning language so there can be more integration down the road
11:55.31``ErikI want it to become a part of BRL-CAD instead of a project that just happens to live in BRL-CAD
11:55.56brlcadmaking it work with unconverted .g files does that
11:56.36brlcadstill doesn't mean you have to kick remrt in the nads to make that happen too
11:56.40``ErikI'd disagree, it still feels like a second class citizen in the tree to me
11:57.01``Erikremrt needs kicked in the nads anyways, but for other reasons O:-) I'll not touch that dir
11:57.25``Erikfind some pants and heads to work, maybe in that order O.o
11:57.45brlcaddisagree?  it still doesn't work with *unconverted* .g files afair, no?
11:58.02brlcadonly botsies
11:59.21brlcadbreaking out a libadrt that librt uses for bot ray-tracing would be another useful integration path (i.e., with technical gain)
11:59.54brlcadthen adrt dir could just become an isst dir or an adrt dir with isst and rise tools but no libs
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12:49.50``Erikit works fine with unconverted files, it does the nmg tesselate on teh fly
12:49.58``Erikthat's why it takes 4 hours to load up a BIG file
12:50.09``Erikthat model I demo'd wasn't 100% bot
12:51.10``Erikmy usual test case is the ktank straight from the repo, no preprocessing :D
12:52.59``Erikand libtie would be the minimal set to replace bot shootray
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14:19.38brlcadheh, that's not working with "unconverted" exactly .. just because it converts them on the "fly" (for extended definitions of flying)
14:20.39brlcadhaving it work as-is (sure, reduced speeds for non-tessellated) with just an option to tessellate or not
14:21.23brlcadmaking librt api additions to support the way it bundles shots, hook in libtie/libadrt into librt for bots, then hooking in librt to isst
14:21.34brlcadTHAT would be sweet integration blissness
14:35.46``Erikyes, replacing bot stuff with tie stuff is a long term goal :) the "smearing it in to the fabric" is a step in that direction
14:36.00``Erikwhen I'm ready for that leap, I'll probably branch
14:36.15``Erikas it changes big things in the critical path for other projects
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15:39.54CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36049 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/csgbrep.cpp: Add in test pipe example.
16:52.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36051 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/attach.c: allow 'attach nu' to work, just does nothing.
17:06.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36052 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch_brep.cpp: Remove the sketch debugging printout.
17:06.58brlcadand so it begins.
17:12.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36053 10/brlcad/branches/rel8/: (log message trimmed)
17:12.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: And so begins preparations for the mighty "Release 8"...
17:12.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: As implied, this version will represent a major incompatibility (i.e., v6
17:12.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: database format), signficant features, and/or other big changes. Already
17:12.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: expected are changes to the database format to repair mistakes and expand
17:12.38CIA-28BRL-CAD: support for more advanced persistence. Also included and probably first to get
17:12.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: applied are a slew of signature changes to several of the core libraries (e.g.,
17:12.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36050 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.c: fix the new display manager attaching so it's only called once and actually works. simplify a bit.
17:52.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36054 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pipe/pipe_brep.cpp: OK, let's take this a step at a time. This appears to generate valid endcap curves.
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18:32.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36055 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pipe/pipe_brep.cpp: Well, at least it generates a ruled surface now...
18:36.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36056 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pipe/pipe_brep.cpp: Remove the saved_pt testing hack - generating weird stuff, but it's generating SOMETHING now so enable it.
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19:26.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36057 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pipe/pipe_brep.cpp: Well, closer, but one of the ruled surfaces is twisted. arrrgh.
20:26.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36058 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pipe/pipe_brep.cpp: Better - can handle a simple linear pipe.
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20:33.54starseekeryou know, the general case of pipe will actually require the full surface eval routines - pipe can self-intersect
20:34.25starseekerdeclares victory sufficient for the time being and moves on to dsp
20:59.21starseekergoggles at dsp, decides that's too complex to start on a Friday afternoon, and hits hyp instead
21:33.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36059 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Untested and doesn't scale the main surface to be elliptical, but commit basic hyp code.
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21:45.17``Erikheh
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23:31.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36060 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (Makefile.am master/main.c master/master.c slave/slave.c): eliminate the "main" files
23:32.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36061 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/smain.c: disappears.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090926

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090926

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21:53.41akinis brlcad the right tool if you want to model buildings?
21:57.48akinprobably not
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22:03.58yukonbobprobably not right tool for _you_ to model buildings, if you don't even have patience to wait a couple minutes for an answer.
22:04.11yukonbobwaves in
22:09.00brlcadheh, true dat
22:13.39yukonbobhi5s brlcad for a wicked, wicked tool for those with a small amount of patience. Reward will be repaid 100 -fold
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090927

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090927

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23:12.31``Erikheh, "emergencyPants v1.1.0a [Giblets with Fiber (and omg ponies!)]"
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090928

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090928

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01:42.34Ralith``Erik: you read sluggy freelance? :D
01:43.10``Erikof course
01:43.57``Erikusually via a php script to aggregate, but I was busy yesterday, so'z I had to go to the official site to catch up, noticed the text down at the bottom :)
01:45.16Ralithhas never bothered to set up aggregation for all his stuff
01:45.20Ralithwould probably save me some time
01:50.14``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/~erik/comics/comic.php?nsfw=2
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10:36.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36062 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (master/master.c slave/slave.c): Added signal header to adrt slave/master.
10:57.31d-lomernin all.
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11:43.56Yoshi47morning
11:53.07``Erikyargh
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14:21.46Yoshi4724451:55 mged
14:22.46_clock_sounds like a Bible quotation
14:23.21Yoshi47_clock_, me?
14:23.46_clock_24451:55 mged
14:23.54Yoshi47really, hows that?
14:24.05_clock_page 24451 verse 55?
14:24.26Yoshi47maybe but none of my bibles go up to page 24451
14:52.51louipcyeah what does "24451:55" represent?
14:55.21``Erikcpu time
14:56.01``Erikin minutes, I believe
14:56.23``Erikso about 17 days running facetize
14:58.08louipchow bout the 55?
14:58.43``Erikseconds
14:59.18``Erikwrite a little spinlock program, run it and watch it with top or ps :)
14:59.19louipchahh alright
14:59.46``Erikthe bsd's break it into a more human readable form, hh:mm:ss or dd days
14:59.57``Erikat least modern ones, doo
15:00.17_clock_advanced computer technology of 21st century
15:00.30``Erikold ones stick at hh(hhh...):mm:ss
15:00.36``Erikroot              11  0.0  0.0     0   12  ??  RL   27Apr09 52607:50.47  (idle: cpu0)
15:00.44``Eriker,
15:00.48``Erikmm.ss I guess
15:01.07``Erik(everyone has their own damn representation, sucks)
15:01.26``Erikor, no, sorry, that's gotta be mm:ss.subsec
15:10.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36063 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (librt/primitives/hyp/hyp_brep.cpp proc-db/csgbrep.cpp): Ah, there we go - situated at the origin for now, but generating an elliptical hyp.
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18:34.21``ErikI do believe that my new distance measurement of choice is now the attoparsec.
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19:29.36Yoshi47mine is hand breadth
19:39.02``Erikum
19:39.12``Erikjabs brlcad with something sharp a lot until he answers
19:39.30``ErikBRLCAD!
19:39.33``Erik*jab*
19:39.38``Erikmotherckufer
19:40.11``Erik*jab jab jab*
19:40.54``Erikthat fucking cocksucker, not being available whenever I snap my fingers, what the fuck is up with that? it's like he has a life or something
19:41.12d-looh my.  Fail another anger management class? ;)
19:41.38``Erikfucker, I'll fucking stab you
19:41.41``ErikI mean, uh, hi
19:41.43``Erikis the boy around
19:41.44``Erik?
19:42.07``ErikI need expert opinion on bicycle shopping in the very near future
19:42.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36064 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/nsis/brlcad.nsi: Added an INSTALLERSUFFIX variable to accomodate installs for 32 and 64 bit.
19:42.29d-lobrlcad sightings today: 0
19:42.30``ErikI think brlcad has half a clue
19:42.35``Erikoh that fucker
19:42.57``Erikok, I'm gonna have to use the phone to interrupt his prostitute session.
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19:58.25louipcthe what?
20:05.47Yoshi47``Erik, try lower case brlcad!
20:05.54Yoshi47lol
20:47.44brlcadwas busy werkin isolated, tryin' to get portant stuff done. sup
20:47.58``Erikso the more important stuff required a telephone call O:-)
21:03.55brlcadheh
21:04.12brlcadno, I just wasn't paying attention in here and *happened* to have my phone in my hand that second
21:04.30brlcadotherwise phone rarely ever catches me.. :)
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21:38.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36065 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/3dm/3dm-g.cpp:
21:38.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: Add a -u option to the 3dm-g converter - if -u is supplied, the UUID
21:38.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: (openNURBS's unique identifier) will be used to name objects rather than the
21:38.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: name. Since BRL-CAD requires a unique name on a per object basis, this offers a
21:38.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 'last resort' to get fully legal (if rather useless) names.
21:39.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36066 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Add -u option to 3dm-g converter for UUID based object names.
21:42.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36067 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: Change Utilites dirname to Utility to match what's on Unix.
21:43.54CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36068 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/libbu/libbu.vcproj: Remove some cruft.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20090929

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090929

00:12.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36069 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/sphgroup.c: Add code to check for center of bbox within radius. Still waiting on a proper select command to do this correctly.
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00:26.09starseekeradds another entry to his endless "I'd like to do this" list: http://www.diybookscanner.org/
00:26.41louipcI saw one made out of legos somewhere
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01:34.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36070 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Not even remotely close to done or correct, but start stubbing in the necessary testing logic for the dsp_brep routine.
01:35.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36071 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/CMakeLists.txt: nuts, forgot CMakeLists.txt
01:59.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36072 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.c: argc/argv are no longer offset. they're just the remaining args of filename+command. unbreak mged argument parsing.
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08:52.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36073 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 5 dirs): final release resting, bumping revision numbers to 7.16.0
08:54.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36074 10/brlcad/trunk/ChangeLog: update changelog with changes since 2009-05-11 for release 7.16
08:58.26brlcadnow to merge to stable
11:11.04Yoshi47starseeker, have to played around with tesseract?
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13:06.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36075 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/repository.sh: avoid a false positive on the rtgl cppflags
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14:01.40kanzureYoshi47: if you pm the 'bkero' person he will love to rant about his recent experiences with tesseract
14:02.41starseekerhas actually tried it - it worked on on an easy case and failed miserably on a harder case - after going through a fair song and dance to prepare things for it
14:10.12starseekerpromising, but needs a LOT of work
14:56.29Yoshi47at easy time with it
14:56.46Yoshi47at least for my applicatiomn
14:57.33Yoshi47took pics with my dslr and then batch convert to tiff, then grayscaled then ran bash script for each tiff in the dir. then cat all .txt into on big one!
14:57.57Yoshi47next time i think i'll use the tiff scanner at work with the doc feeder
14:59.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36076 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve_brep.cpp: Fix revolve handling of loop curves.
15:23.15CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36077 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (847 files in 187 dirs): merge trunk to STABLE from r34507 through HEAD r36075 for release 7.16.0
15:29.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36078 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve_brep.cpp: Oops, flip it when it IS the outer loop.
15:34.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36079 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/eto/eto_brep.cpp: Oh yeah, while I'm thinking of it - flip the eto surface to be right side out.
15:53.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36080 10/brlcad/tags/rel-7-16-0/:
15:53.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: Tagging release 7.16.0
15:53.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: Build testing still ongoing, but so far no (new) major issues encountered.
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16:13.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36081 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged.c: Need to use an "unsigned long long" when bringing an address in from a string.
16:19.46brlcadthat's not a portable change
16:21.06brlcadthough the bigger problem there is the fucking address getting serialized to a string then deserialized back to a pointer
16:23.04mafmstring = '\0' :P
16:25.14brlcadit's never user-exposed, but still
16:25.53brlcadjust a hacked up way to pass a pointer through the tcl barrier
16:27.08starseekerbrlcad: bob says it's more portable than what was there
16:27.10``Erikged_open("", 13245.g
16:27.17``Erikged_open("", "13245.g"); rather
16:28.14brlcadyeah, except it's:  crash on 64-bit vs won't even compile
16:28.45brlcadshould remove the serialization
16:29.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36082 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 5 dirs): testing going well, bump it up to 7.16.1 post-tagging
16:31.35brlcadso final build of the tagged version to make sure it compiles -- feel free to check it out on windows/linux/bsd (and post binaries)
16:33.04brlcadreduced the ttl for brlcad.org to just 20 minutes so once the server goes down tonight, the new IP should take effect very quickly
16:33.21``Erikis this ->crit or ?
16:35.23brlcadwhat I mentioned earlier, they're moving the box
16:35.34brlcadwould ->crit but the services still need to be hooked up and tested
16:35.49``Erikah, missed the earlier mention
16:35.52brlcadthis is a forced move to a new rack
16:36.05``Erikah well :)
16:36.11brlcadwhich is resulting in new IPs too, *sigh*
16:36.11``Erik(new IP, though?)
16:36.19``Erikodd
16:36.33``Erikhm, that means updating firewalls here and there :/
16:36.34brlcadthink they allocate IPs per rack
16:37.06brlcador at least, this new rack is to a different switch entirely
17:01.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36083 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/csgbrep.cpp: OK, narrow csgbrep down to dsp for now, also tweak rhc params.
17:06.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36084 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: Need to use an "unsigned long long" when bringing an address in from a string.
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19:18.21``Erikdamnit, ralith, you following me AGAIN? O.o
20:14.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36085 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tube.c: you can't fake initialize the rt_uniresource. crashy crashy.
20:32.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36086 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pipe/pipe_brep.cpp: Thanks to Keith for the idea - investigate possibilities of sumsurfaces for pipe.
21:17.16CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36087 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/bspline.c: M_SQRT1_2 is in vmath.h
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22:03.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36088 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pipe/pipe_brep.cpp: Still likely very fragile, but can do curved pipe.
22:23.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36089 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pipe/pipe_brep.cpp: Straighten out the normals - first correct pipe csg->nurbs raytrace
22:23.36``Erikheh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY2dBfYqyaY
22:59.37brlcadhm, not that good
23:47.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36090 10/brlcad/trunk/include/vmath.h: reverse confusing test order
IRC log for #brlcad on 20090930

IRC log for #brlcad on 20090930

00:16.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36091 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bot/g_bot_include.c:
00:16.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: expand the zero-thickness loop and make it use the application-specified
00:16.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: distance tolerance instead of hard-coded magic values. this should tighten the
00:16.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: bounding box while still keeping the bot visible for space partitioning.
00:23.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36092 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bot/g_bot_include.c: style ws indent comment consistency cleanup
00:24.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36093 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bot/g_bot_include.c: accidental double-line
00:25.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36094 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/bspline.c: apply the same non-zero thickness test that BoT uses so that we don't miss planar spline surfaces during space partition traversal.
00:33.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36095 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/bspline.c: no need to have the zero-length test inside the surface loop. just do a sanity test after visiting all surfaces.
00:33.30brlcadstarseeker: on that note .. any specific reason brep bounding boxes are expanded 1mm instead of tol->dist in brep_prep()?
00:33.33brlcadfg
00:35.53starseekerbrlcad: not sure offhand
00:49.53brlcadremember that .bz is possibly going down in as early as 10 minutes from now (or any time now really)
00:50.21brlcadso you might want to have a local irc client handy since screens will all get shut down
00:51.40starseekerdoesn't have home internet yet anyhow
00:52.50starseekeris not at all sure if the amount of data in a dsp makes sense to represent as a NURBS surface
00:54.10brlcadif you want to visualize it via opengl, it does
00:54.26brlcadremember that's one piece of what those routines are for
00:55.11starseekermight be better to just tesselate it and use the bots
00:55.41starseekerI'm not even sure we can hand a surface like this
00:58.36starseekerer handle even
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01:01.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36096 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: tighten up the bounding box check considerably from 1mm to the distance tolerance. history indicates this was arbitrarily 0.02mm then 1.0mm during testing. this is actually still not quite as tight as the other prims.
01:01.37brlcadwill see if that busts things soon enough..
01:01.48brlcadshouldn't though, unless there are other bad assumptions at play
01:01.48starseekerbrlcad: It may have been expanded for a reason...
01:02.42starseekerbrlcad: was it causing problems with the old NURBS -> new NURBS conversion?
01:02.42brlcadspeculation, wasn't documented in comments or commit -- hinted at it just being part of testing bb in commit message
01:03.14starseekernods - yeah, a lot of that stuff was and still is a tad fuzzy
01:03.16brlcadeither way, should find out rather trivially and can document it if it needs to be something else
01:03.53brlcadshould at least be a comment if there's going to be a magic number that isn't using the tolerance system, otherwise it's just asking for obscure cascading bugs down the road
01:04.04starseekerKeith and I both intend to go back over the whole kit and kaboddle thoroughly once the sprint is done
01:04.56starseekersuggests brlcad not look too hard if magic numbers bother him - there are a fair few that will need to be delt with
01:05.07brlcadoh, I know
01:05.33starseekerbty, congrats on the release tagging!
01:05.38starseekerwell done
01:05.44brlcadthat one was just blatent and screws with the space partitioning
01:06.02brlcadst_min/max aren't used during shot(), they're used higher up during SP traversal
01:06.24brlcadif it's not right, then GetBBox() is wrong
01:07.27brlcadwe can't get that far off schedule between releases -- makes for way too much work
01:08.56brlcadand it really shouldn't be a one-man job every month, doesn't serve the project regardless of ongoing activity as issues back up and bugs get more costly and release even more intense
01:09.43starseekerapologizes
01:10.38brlcadnot harping on anyone in particular -- should be everyone pressing for it and helping push it each end of month
01:11.57brlcadsad to say it, but feeling is our quality is "down" due to bugs introduced that simply aren't on anyone's radar .. feels like a class ".0" release unfortunately
01:12.30starseekernods
01:12.41brlcad*classic
01:13.22starseekerwill try not to move again for a few months ;-)
01:15.48brlcadthere are several active folks that could have helped things along.. :)
01:16.05brlcadmost distressing is *FOUR* releases were missed :/
01:16.19starseekerow
01:16.36brlcadwe had four in row right on time
01:16.51brlcadthen four missed, now (hopefully) back on schedule
01:18.32starseekerDid we introduce the stability issues, or is that the OSX 10.5 stuff?
01:18.45brlcadread my clock wrong, still 1.5 hours till 11pm
01:18.56brlcadit's not just osx
01:20.03brlcadit's several things in general -- tcl changes, rt changes, mged command changes .. just bug creep
01:20.03brlcadregression tests being ignored
01:20.03brlcadseveral are failing
01:21.31starseekerwinces
01:21.39brlcadhappens naturally, just has to be kept in check -- can't just keep heaping in new code and code changes for months on end without keeping things clean along the way
01:23.04brlcadalmost let a bug slip in with my mged argv parsing change from the weekend that I just caught on monday
01:23.20brlcadthat would have been bad :)
01:24.00starseekerheh
01:24.05starseekerjust a bit
01:28.27brlcadif I had my druthers and unlimited time/budget, I'd halt all new work so we can focus on just bugs for at least three months solid to fix and refactor anything and everything we know of and can easily expose through automation, across the entire codebase
01:28.55starseekernods
01:29.20starseekertoo bad about the time/budget bit :-(
01:30.17brlcadthe payoff from that would escalate our usability and code maintainability faster than anything else by removing *all* potential crashes, failed input processing, 32/64-bit conversions, bad assumptions, bad docs, etc
01:30.30starseekeryep
01:30.45starseekeragrees, just not sure how to /who to make the case to
01:31.14brlcadcouldn't be made for that length of time unless we make it some massive community effort
01:31.40brlcadand then you have to attract bug fixers and get them up to speed
01:31.59brlcadwe had a gsocer like that for bz this year .. was fantastic .. fixed dozens of really hard bugs
01:34.48starseekersweeet
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01:52.29yukonbobreads scrollback with interest...
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02:00.43brlcadthinks he may need to add a plate mode to breps
02:09.23brlcadstarseeker: you ever looked into stay's trimming code?
02:09.48brlcadthinking to kill it if you have, if there's no value to be derived any more
02:11.37starseekercan't say I have, really - I didn't know there was working trimming code
02:11.49brlcadnever implied it was working or not
02:12.03brlcadcode is code
02:12.22starseekerI'd go ahead - it's in the revision history if we need it, and on the whole our trimming seems to be in decent shape now
02:13.23brlcadnobody will need to look at it as a matter of need, it wasn't used
02:13.43brlcadit would be to see if there's some aspect to what he's doing that is actually useful that could improve what we're doing
02:14.19starseekerI suppose I could take a look, but it might not be for a while
02:14.29brlcadnot very complex code, might be worth all of five min to review it
02:14.59starseekerwhat file is it in?
02:15.02brlcadlooks like that was the only code to actually start to use nurbs nmg structure
02:15.22brlcadsrc/librt/primitives/bspline/nurb_trim.c
02:15.38starseekerlooks
02:18.18starseekerhmm, he's breaking up the curves into bezier sub-curves
02:18.20starseekerI think
02:18.33starseekerquadrant based reasoning...
02:18.53brlcadwouldn't be surprising, that was the approach for surface decomposition, turning nurbs into bspline patches
02:19.37brlcadhm.. more coffee or quick nap
02:19.50brlcadgets coffee
02:20.25starseekeryeah, that's not what we're doing now (at least practically) so I don't think we need it - I don't think we have a working openNURBS routine for the bspline patch thing, and we aren't doing that anyhow
02:23.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36097 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/dsp/dsp_brep.cpp: Ugly, ugly, ugly. Wireframe looks halfway reasonable but hardly raytraces at all. Performance is horrible.
02:28.13starseekergrinds teeth
02:29.06starseekernow what..  do per-cell surfaces?  ugh.  what's a reasonable breakdown I wonder...
02:29.54starseekerthis thing might be the super-density control point case that we need to add to the surface tree build logic checking... even then though I doubt it would help much
02:45.41starseekerexit
02:45.45starseekerwhoops
02:48.08yukonbobfail
02:58.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36098 10/brlcad/trunk/include/nurb.h: make the header safe to include with c++ files as-is with a little wrapping love.
02:58.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36099 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): initial stub in for old nurbs to new nurbs conversion. right now it just stubs a bounding sphere in place while some more thought is put into how to support the old structureless nurbs as freestanding surfaces.
03:16.10pooliostarseeker: how goes brep? :)
03:19.25learnerhe has most of the primitives working now
03:19.38learnerpretty cool
03:21.01poolioawesome!
03:21.43learnerjust a couple of the more complex ones remaining (like dsp (terrain), sketches, revolve, pipes, etc)
03:31.38poolioruh roh, looks like bzflag is about to go down. see y'all on the other side
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03:46.46learnerpoolio: yeah, supposedly any minute (for the past 45)
03:48.10learneryeah, I just saw the console messages .. here it goes
03:56.59learnerdns is updated, just waiting for the physical swap now
04:00.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36100 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: brep_build_bvh doesn't use the rt_brep_internal
04:20.01learnercmon sago
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04:22.35brlcadwoot
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06:24.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36101 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): rename bspline.c to bspline.cpp in preparation for new nurbs integration/conversion.
06:26.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36102 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/bspline.cpp: initial conversion for ray-tracing purposes, add a compile-time switch to convert prep() to use brep prep() with stashage into the nurb_internal.
06:27.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36103 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/bspline.cpp: reflect filename change
06:28.44brlcadnot too shabby for one day.  tagged release, orchestrated server migration, fixed nurbs bb partitioning, and stubbed out prep.
06:29.11brlcadgoes to get cookies
06:32.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36104 10/brlcad/trunk/include/rtgeom.h: consider stashing the ON_Brep in here, not ideal though
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08:25.41*** join/#brlcad KingofCSU (n=king@118.249.212.228)
08:28.52KingofCSUHello there   I can not make a cone    anyone can tell me how to make a cone     I mean not the trc   the cone with top R is 0
08:33.06KingofCSUHello   How to make a cone by BRL-CAD?   I had tried the solid trc , but i can not make the radius of top to 0,  the Error is "all dimensions must be greater than zero! then how can I make a cone ?
08:33.44_clock_KingofCSU: make some small number as the top radius
08:33.59_clock_like 0.0000000000000000000000001
08:34.16KingofCSUIt is the only way?
08:34.22_clock_as far as I know yes
08:34.59KingofCSUthank you,  I will try it .
08:35.01_clock_KingofCSU: put the smallest number representable in floating point there. I wonder if the engine is going to collapse from that :)
08:35.44KingofCSUI think 0.1 is ok
08:35.51_clock_KingofCSU: or, by binary search, find the smallest number the program accepts without producing the "all dimensions must be greater than zero!" message :)
08:36.32KingofCSU0.1 is enough to do such a cone
08:36.33_clock_wht are you modelling?
08:36.58KingofCSUsomething simple  I borrowed a book of CAD. and try to make the samples .
08:38.03KingofCSUthe book is about auto CAD .  I try to make the examples by BRL-CAD.
08:38.46KingofCSUDo you have any other idea to practice the BRL-CAD?
08:38.48_clock_oh autocad was initial release 1982
08:38.54_clock_and BRL-CAD 1984 according to Wikipedia
08:39.05_clock_What a shame for BRL-CAD!
08:39.10_clock_And I thought it was 1979
08:39.57_clock_aha! But Autocad was initially 2D only!
08:39.58KingofCSUWhatever.  How do you improve your kill of BRL-CAD?
08:40.24KingofCSUI dont think so .  autocad can do 3D too
08:40.26_clock_KingofCSU: I want to model something and then struggle to model it
08:40.40_clock_through all the badly documented functions :)
08:41.52KingofCSUit is hard to put the things the the right place in BRL-CAD.  it can not catch some point like middle or end
08:42.15_clock_Yes I find this useless unless for technological design
08:42.28_clock_I always type the coordinates in numerically in the matrix editor
08:42.54KingofCSUyou have to calculate the point
08:43.15_clock_I don't have to calculate any point
08:43.16_clock_Mostly
08:43.21KingofCSUstill now   I can not understand the matrix editor
08:43.39_clock_If I need some complex shape I design it in QCAD let it print the coordinates and then type them in
08:44.04_clock_KingofCSU: I don't even remember the command to invoke it anymore :)
08:44.25KingofCSUOh that is a good idea , to do something in QCAD then ....
08:44.30_clock_there is red sed and ted
08:44.58_clock_some of them have horrible complicated parameters like you have to type in exactly the directory tree
08:45.04_clock_some don't work in some situations
08:45.14_clock_and all do basically the same IIRC
08:45.14KingofCSUI can find anything about the red and ted,
08:45.21_clock_I find BRL-CAD very confusing to use :)
08:46.06KingofCSUI can not find any documents about the red and ted .  
08:46.12_clock_Sometimes it doesn't 'like' some geometry and is 210x slower in rendering
08:46.25_clock_For which some good soul wrote me some exceptional feature to solve exactly my situation
08:46.39_clock_However this help doesn't fit into my system of scripts and won't work for other situations of course
08:46.59_clock_KingofCSU: I am not surprised, I couldn't find them either
08:47.34KingofCSUsometimes i find it is hard to use the pix-png tool .  
08:48.05KingofCSU_clock_: then How do you learn the red and ted?
08:48.06_clock_KingofCSU: I can't find any reference manual on teh net
08:48.19KingofCSUsame to you
08:48.19_clock_KingofCSU: I don't remember how I learned them, but I already forgot it anyway :)
08:48.34KingofCSU:-D
08:49.04_clock_Oh here is some reference on the Wiki
08:49.06_clock_http://brlcad.org/wiki/MGED_Commands
08:49.10_clock_But:
08:49.15KingofCSUthere are only four BRL-CAD Tutorial Series to reference
08:49.43_clock_1) how should a user determine from "I want to know about red" whether he should search in Documentation or Wiki? Anyway, isn't Wiki a documentation too so shouldn't it be under the Documentation chapter?
08:50.00_clock_2) Is the Wiki official or unofficial documentation? How much can we trust what is written there?
08:50.16KingofCSUI see.  but I am a Chinese. It is hard to understand the English in so special way
08:51.06KingofCSUthe English in a specialized field or subject is hard to learn
08:52.33KingofCSUjust finishing the 4 BRL-CAD Tutorial Series is not enough to model complex things.
08:53.02_clock_Basically red is for combinations
08:53.07_clock_and sed+ted is for primitives
08:53.28_clock_And the BRL-CAD web is slow.
08:53.37KingofCSU:)
11:37.32brlcadwhich further reinforces the need for better organized/searchable/integrated documentation
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11:46.52d-lomornin!
12:01.08brlcadmernin
12:01.35brlcadwoot, RDNS is fixed
12:02.10Yoshi47morning
12:02.35Yoshi47Remote Distraction NURBS System
12:06.24brlcadyeah has been a distraction .. reverse DNS ;)
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12:25.07Yoshi47oh that stuff, haven't even touch the reverse stuff, cause i don't think i need it
12:26.34brlcadhaving reverse dns on servers with a fixed ip can be pretty useful
12:26.57brlcadmany tools do reverse lookups to validate origination
12:27.46brlcade.g., irc ..
12:37.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36105 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/bspline.cpp: where to pick up
12:45.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36106 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/spltest.c: make the surface non-planar for testing now that planar is fixed
12:52.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36107 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/ (if_X24.c if_ogl.c):
12:52.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: consistency. if you're going to cast to unsigned long long pointers, then scan
12:52.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: that. and do the same for X24 else obscure bugs are introduced.
12:52.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: *_open_existing really is a hack that needs to be refactored away/into the libfb
12:52.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: callback table better.
13:31.23``Eriknow just to migrate services *cough*
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13:44.55brlcadyep
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14:17.31starseekerreturns
14:20.32d-lo*dun dun dunnnnnnnn*
14:21.54d-lothinks it is mildly amusing that someone in Sri Lanka got their GSoc Tshirt before someone in PA. :)
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14:34.43``Erikgot his a while ago
14:35.20``Eriklike, 2 days after they said they were sending them out (actually saw the fedex tracking # before the email about them sending them out O.O)
14:36.08``Erikmebbe you live in an area that they didn't believe to be accessable or inhabited? they had to procure pontoons for the cessna? :D
14:42.11d-loohh!  ``Erik made a funny!
14:42.35``Erik(do I get a doggie biscuit? do I? do I? do I? huh? huh? do I?)
14:45.34d-loNope, but you can have 179 mins off work today.  Just tell'em Dave Said so.
14:47.06d-loNice:  Texting while driving in MD will get you a $500 fine.  Finalyl, some sense.
14:52.52Yoshi47soon to be in Ontario too! even if on phone! or any device that isn't dash mounted
14:53.05Yoshi47going to have to find a nice BT headset
14:53.22Yoshi47maybe one that can work with my notebook too!
15:57.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36108 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/dsp/dsp_brep.cpp: More dsp tweaking - still doesn't raytrace.
16:04.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36109 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/dsp/dsp_brep.cpp: Hmm - flip bottom face. Raytrace now at least gives something.
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16:35.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36110 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/dsp/dsp_brep.cpp: Change a couple more face flips - apparently getting a raytrace now, but prep and raytrace times are both still very long.
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17:58.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36111 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ (Archer.tcl ArcherCore.tcl): A few minor tweaks.
18:17.02``Erikholy owwow, SOMEONE's about to get a major beatdown http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/sad/1399709773.html
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18:45.01d-lo``Erik: lol, that is awesome.
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20:22.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36112 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/bspline.cpp: implement more breep conversion support callbackage
20:25.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36113 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/bspline.cpp: reorder to remove the forward declarations on implementation-specific helper functions.
20:31.13CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36114 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/bspline.cpp: plot needs a brep db internal
20:33.10starseeker``Erik: yeah, that's some of the best lawyer bait I've seen for a while
20:35.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36115 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/bspline.cpp: pass the new brep db internal, not the old bspline one
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21:25.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36116 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/bspline.cpp: display both the old and new wireframes for now
21:51.50CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36117 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: mged needs to better deal with kicking off an editor. really need to kick off our own terminal and invoke whatever editor from there.
22:14.45brlcadhm, a new .deb for ubuntu.. http://tecnicoslinux.com.ar/
22:16.03brlcadnice if someone could test it out to see if it's worth hosting up
22:18.02brlcadand for those that can't read spanish, the link in there is http://www.tecnicoslinux.com.ar/livecd/brlcad_7.10_i386.deb
22:34.11louipcsounds old
22:44.40brlcad7.10 is old, but I think the .deb is new :)
22:45.03brlcadcertainly newer than the last .deb posted (7.8.4)
22:46.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36118 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/nurb_brep.cpp: accumulate the bounding volume across the whole model
23:07.44``Erikis the misc/debian unusable? I lost access to debian quite a while back :(
23:07.55brlcadshould be usable
23:08.04brlcadmore someone actually compiling the deb
23:09.13``Erikand probably no 'customer' we could use as leverage to get a debian machine at the office
23:09.52brlcadI have access to a couple someone, but that really should be done by someone in the community (imnsho)
23:10.02brlcads/someone/somewhere/
23:11.00``Erik*shrug* I wasn't all that sad when I deleted my debian partition to make more space for fbsd
23:11.03``Erik:)
23:11.47``Erik(actually, I still have a debian machine... has, um, 120mhz cyrix processor with a dead fan, 48m ram, and I think a 1.6g hdd
23:11.50``Erik)
23:12.50brlcadI'd rather see us hit every monthly source release with solid docs, stable tools, clean builds, then focus on community infrastructure (website, wiki, forums, docs)
23:13.01brlcadif we're doing that, the community support will follow
23:13.07``Erikspoze
23:13.24``ErikI think I need to cook up some test cases for metaballs, there suddenly seem to be a slew of issues cropping up :/
23:13.33``Erikstupid ray marching crap
23:14.17``Erikcheck this one out, I got a "test geometry"
23:14.28brlcadthat procdb I hijacked is great for testing :)
23:14.32``Erik33 individual metaballs, each containing exactly one control point, unioned together
23:14.41``Erik<-- doesn't think they ... get it
23:15.03brlcadI gave a snippet that showed how to merge them with code
23:15.15``Erikah, in the last hour or two?
23:15.25brlcadno, couple months bad
23:15.28brlcadback
23:15.30``Erikoh heh
23:15.42brlcadI suspect it's because they don't like how they merge weight-wise --  non-intuitiv
23:15.49``ErikI did some c&p/vim/c&p today and got a nice generated mb with no issues
23:16.01``Erikthe blob method is far better for what they want
23:16.03brlcadthey want the weight/power/whatever to be a distance
23:16.06brlcadthen blend
23:16.13``Erikeffectively what blob does
23:16.27``Erikiso is the 'weird' one :/
23:17.15``Erikif'n I woulda seen these earlier, I would've seen about preparing materials to steal 10 minutes of this upcoming release meeting in the library
23:23.22``Erikoverclocks his stove O.o
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091001

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091001

00:17.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36119 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (14 files in 14 dirs): opennurbs provides a static factory allocator so that objects are instantiated within the DLL on Windows. be a good citizen and call that instead of calling new directly.
00:27.48brlcadis intrigued by the Loft() routines in opennurbs .. another potential means to implement a generalized sweep primitive coupled with the new brep() funcs
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00:45.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36120 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (4 files in 4 dirs): more static factory allocation via New() instead of new
01:35.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36121 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (nurb.h raytrace.h): move all of the old nurbs functions out of raytrace.h into the nurbs.h header. removed duplication and fixed errors (non-existent functions) in the process.
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03:43.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36122 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/nurb_brep.cpp: initial stubbing of the surfaces into the container. not quite.
03:58.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36123 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/nurb_brep.cpp: u/v were flipped, now to fix the knots
04:29.11brlcadhah, we have liftoff
04:33.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36124 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/nurb_brep.cpp: progress. just got first old NURBS surface to render as a new NURBS surface
04:47.50brlcadoh my god
04:48.02brlcad(!!!)
04:48.18brlcadit fraskingasd worked on the frag the first attempt
04:48.21brlcadand it's blazing fast
04:49.41brlcaddoesn't believe it, goes to triple check things
04:52.44brlcadsure enough, prepped 903 surfaces in less than 2 sec, rendered a 512x512 in 19sec .. now to revert
04:54.28CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36125 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/nurb_brep.cpp: this is freaking cool. but gotta turn off debugging else run into the old mged-lockup bug flooding the output channel
04:55.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36126 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/bspline.cpp: turn off the old wireframe. stay's code definitely has a leg up there showing a detailed surface instead of just the edges, but for something as complex as the frag, it works out even better with just edges
04:57.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36127 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/nurb_brep.cpp: kill the initial bounding volume code now that things seem to be working.
04:58.45brlcadhah .. now for comparison.  old nurbs prep took about 0 secs, rendered a 512x512 in ...
05:00.08brlcad(still rendering)
05:03.28brlcad(halfway)
05:11.21brlcad702 sec wallclock, 124 sec cpu  (so even if the malloc problem were fixed, it's still nearly 10x slower)
05:22.40brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/nurbs2brep/
05:22.55brlcadpics ftw
05:23.32brlcadnow the real beast test .. glass t72
05:45.28brlcadlooks like there are over 1000 nurbs surfaces mixed across 6 old bspline primitives, integrated with other objects
06:15.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36128 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/bspline.cpp: add a couple #define handles to control the wireframe methods
06:24.39brlcadYoshi47: http://brlcad.org/tmp/impeller/impeller2.png
07:42.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36129 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/nurb_brep.cpp: add a little more diagnostic information about whether there's just one surface, valid object, valid topology, valid geometry, manifold
09:39.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r36130 10/rt^3/tags/rel-7-16-0/: tag to assign this core interface version to the corresponding BRL-CAD version
09:43.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r36131 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/CMakeLists.txt: typo in file name suffix
10:53.12Yoshi47brlcad, you manage to get the script going? is that the new one? or old one?
10:53.23Yoshi47nice rendering though
10:53.27Yoshi47thanks
10:56.05Yoshi47brlcad, your last 12 lines, did you do the test with the impeller?
10:57.33Yoshi47that reminds me i have to clean up that tutorial i wrote, maybe when things settle down, My daughter is in the hospital again, she not eating or drinking much, so she needs a bunch of tests, but don't worry she happy and pretty healthy otherwise, they just plugged her in to the IV! She got a port under the skin, kinda cool actually.
11:12.25brlcadYoshi47: all that chatter before the impeller2 url had nothing to do with the impeller :)
11:12.32Yoshi47oh ok
11:13.04Yoshi47so was it the new one?
11:14.23brlcadI still don't know new/old, just the one I have :)
11:14.42brlcadwhich I have to imagine is new, but before you wrote the script
11:14.53brlcadbecause otherwise you wouldn't have needed to recreate it
11:15.50Yoshi47ah does it have a key way? when you have time to check, no rush, no key way means its the old one, the new one for the tutorial i added a keyway
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11:33.47brlcadheh, actually I seemed to have just lost the .g file....
11:33.58brlcadsearching the filesystem
11:36.37Yoshi47lol
11:37.27Yoshi47well you can paste each of these lines into mged to make the new one, http://ej.nijenhuis.pixi.me/d/2452-1/impeller.txt?g2_GALLERYSID=547cde1a5f437fb485373a2a612d12ce
11:37.33Yoshi47if you want,
11:38.47brlcadhow does that help answer the question? :)
11:39.00brlcadif you can't tell from the pictures, I certainly can't :)
11:39.36Yoshi47one sec then, i'll render it quickly.
11:39.43Yoshi47opening up another instance of mged
11:41.23Yoshi47have to copy file from home
11:49.15Yoshi47thats the old one, the new one only has 11 fins, but i do have to admit the old one looks better with 12 fins, i'll change the script to include 12 fins
11:51.13Yoshi47im going to redo it with the new command and see what it get then i'll reupload the new commands
11:51.37brlcadk
11:57.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36132 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/nurb_brep.cpp: comment cleanup, print surface count
12:01.48Yoshi47on that render you just did, what the little white thing at the top closer to the left side?
12:05.45Yoshi47here is the commands to create the new tutorial Impeller, which has 12 fins like the old one but has an added keyway, if you do get around to a render can you get the keyway visible, not straight on but to the side a little bit, http://ej.nijenhuis.pixi.me/d/2456-1/impeller.txt?g2_GALLERYSID=547cde1a5f437fb485373a2a612d12ce
12:13.04brlcadthat's a custom light source
12:13.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36133 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: (c-set-offset 'innamespace 0) .. undo drain bramage indent within namespace, cleanup
12:40.04``Erikdang emacs specialness :D
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12:57.48Yoshi47brlcad, thought so
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14:22.53``Erikheh, wow, my brain parsed "DirectX 11" as "direct X11" O.o I must be a *nix geek.
14:34.40d-lolol
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15:08.17louipcawe no source tarball for 7.16.0?
15:10.21brlcadlouipc: not quite yet .. trying later today
15:10.38brlcadit is tagged, and the tarballs are sitting on my machine .. just didn't upload
15:10.45louipcaah cool
15:17.55``Eriksoooo, we can start breakin' shit again? :D
15:27.12brlcadyep
15:29.22brlcadYoshi47: http://brlcad.org/tmp/impeller has the .g I was using
15:38.15Yoshi47ah, i still have that one
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18:56.46``Erikhah http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=855236
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19:37.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36134 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/obj-g.c: fixing some silly bugs.
19:51.46``Erikso much silliness.
19:51.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36135 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/obj-g.c: fix silly offset bug
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20:10.14``Erikhm.
20:32.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36136 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/obj-g.c: make region static (there's a reason). Prep the region in case no groups are defined in .obj file. Write last region.
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20:46.02``Erikcurses some.
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20:52.08*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.8 posted (20090511) || GSoC2009 Next Step: upload your code to google, wait for shirt ;) thanks everyone! || Logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/
21:47.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36138 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/obj-g.c: improved command catching, start using the facemax... thingie... etc
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22:36.01brlcadyay, a curses isst inteface
22:41.39Ralithisst?
22:48.44``Erikwhu?
22:49.06``Erikheh
22:49.27``Erikyeahhhh, I think I'm gonna be busy with obj-g and playing with my balls for a bit, isst is kinda more back burner now
22:49.51``Erik<-- can't find anyone to take care of his balls for him :/
23:22.04brlcadRalith: isst is the "interactive shotline selection tool" .. a real-time ray-trace viewer that lets you spin a model around, look at split views, etc
23:25.07``Erikit exists in brlcad/src/adrt/ with the gui frontend in isst/
23:25.41``Erikhttp://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/isst/trunk/
23:30.56``ErikI HAVE HEARD THE CRY OF THE CARROTS!
23:36.34Ralithbrlcad: oh neat
23:39.20``Erikralith: do you have a recent BRL-CAD and GTK+ installed?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091002

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091002

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00:16.32Ralith``Erik: not atm
00:16.37Raliththe latter, probably
00:16.42RalithI can rememdy that though
00:16.43Ralithwhy?
00:17.40``Erikin case you wanted to see isst in action
00:20.10louipcheheh IriX64 just told me that he has brl-cad working on vista 64, with the obligatory screen shot
00:24.02starseekerwoooot!
00:24.05starseekeris online once more
00:24.12``Erikdamnit
00:24.14``Erikthere goes the neighborhood
00:24.20``Erik70's boy is back online
00:24.35starseeker70's?? more like 40's
00:24.46``Erikmirror walls, shag carpet
00:24.52starseekerah, yes :-)
00:24.57``Erikare your appliance alvacado, or goldenrod? :D
00:25.02starseekermirror wall check, shag carpet (thankfully) no
00:25.03``Erikappliances
00:25.10starseekeroff-white
00:25.22louipcall of that sounds awesome to me
00:25.27``Erikreally off white? like alvacado? ;)
00:25.51``Erik(so gettin' my arse kicked tomorrow)
00:26.02starseekernah, still too tired
00:26.10starseekeralthough brlcad has got to be even more shot
00:26.22brlcadnah
00:26.59``Eriksomething about a bigassed needle full of adrenaline through the rib cage and straight into the heart, he's wired so bad his eyes are as messed up as uma's
00:27.04``Erik:D *duck*
00:27.16brlcadah, heh, welcome back to the addiction starseeker
00:27.28brlcadmm.. uma
00:27.41brlcadcould be a good kill biller time
00:28.03brlcador I could catch the two heroes i've not seen yet
00:28.06``Erik(was actually a pulp fiction crack, but *shrug* whatever's good)
00:28.28brlcad*snort* "damn, I said god damn!"
00:28.49brlcadone of my fav quotes/scenes in pulp
00:29.19brlcadjust finished making some of the best spaghetti evar
00:29.27``Erikfinishes up his lasagna
00:30.59starseekerwonders just how many updates he has waiting to compile...
00:32.05``Erikheh "if I'm gay, then freddy mercury was gay!"
00:40.36starseekerwinces - 111 packages
00:40.49starseekeroh, well... time to stress the local power grid
00:42.12louipclaffs
00:42.40starseekersees subversion related items in the list and updates BRL-CAD before starting the process
00:43.01``Erikwow, I'm glad I use freebsd and macports so I don't have to deal with all that O.o
00:43.25louipcwouldn't you if you wanted to update all your apps?
00:43.42``Erik</sarcasm>
00:43.51starseeker``Erik: oh, it SHOULD work - the last time I updated it and it broke, it was upstreams fault
00:44.00starseekertends to run on the cutting edge
00:44.38starseekertoo many cool changes recently for me to want to get stuck on the old code for any longer
00:44.39louipcI'm on the bleeding edge too, but I don't have to build 95% of it heh
00:45.18starseekeractually prefers it that way - there's a sort of purity in knowing your system can build itself from source code
00:45.47louipcwinks
00:46.16``Erikpsst, starseeker, I think he's hittin' on ya
00:47.05starseekernah, he just wants my mirror wall
00:47.19starseekeroh, I need to check out Haiku again
01:58.22brlcad``Erik: may be reading it wrong, but that obj-g memset is sizeof(pointer)
01:58.44brlcadjust bu_calloc instead and should be "sure"
01:59.52brlcadotherwise, needs to be sizeof(struct whatever)
02:00.54brlcadyay, looks like tcl folks are finally looking into our command length patch
02:01.37yukonbobwaves in
02:01.40yukonbobwhich patch?
02:11.26``Erikbrlcad: I think I made that fix but didn't commit it? O.o dun remmeber, have to look at the src at work
02:11.36``Erikit's in mid thrash :D
02:12.46``Erikthe original was banged out on a saturday and committed wtihout testing, gotta make things, y'know, work now
02:34.55brlcadyou made some commits, that's only reason I noticed the snippet
02:53.13brlcadyeah, you took out the sizeof()
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04:48.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36139 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/obj-g.c: callocified
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12:05.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36140 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/obj-g.c: use bu_fgets. update facemax.
12:21.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36141 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/obj-g.c: fix multiple group parsing
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14:43.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36142 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/obj-g.c: stubs for more commands
17:27.25``Erikwhoa, screw that, I'm just gonna do a small subset of obj
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18:19.33starseekerbrlcad: hmm, pastbin.bzflag.bz seems to be having some issues
18:19.49starseekerwell, in the meantime I'll use another one
18:20.04brlcadstarseeker: yeah, fs was full
18:20.17starseekerbrlcad: anyway - I have a debugging backtrace on the failure of ogl to attach on OSX:
18:20.24starseekerhttp://paste.lisp.org/display/88073
18:29.04brlcadstarseeker: yeah, that trace looks familiar
18:30.03starseekernot helpful, eh?
18:38.08brlcadnot really unfortunately -- the display pointer looks alright, and you can't get any data info for functions lower than Tk_InternAtom()
18:38.29starseekerhmm.  How do we attack this then?
18:38.47brlcadi mean, it feels like the x11 incompat from a while back
18:39.03brlcadremember that debian bug?
18:39.33starseekerick
18:39.34brlcadthere was a hack we could apply to tk to fix it, and there was a fix to x11 as well
18:39.53starseekerso it's not something at our level you think?
18:40.24brlcadI'm sure we're provoking it  *somehow* .. but yeah, not clear if it's actually something wrong on our end
18:40.44brlcaddoes this result in the BadAtom abort?
18:41.04brlcador just crashes?
18:41.14starseekerjust crashes
18:41.27brlcadwhat's the setup? running local on mac 10.5 to local mac x11 ?
18:41.35starseekeryep
18:41.48brlcadis this an enable-all ?
18:42.19starseekeryep
18:42.34brlcadwhat does otool -L look like on the binary?
18:43.39starseekerwant pastebin?
18:44.02brlcadit's highly suspicious that it crashes in Tk_InternalAtom .. and there are other reports of a Linux x11 client to mac server failing out (cleanly) with an X11 BadAtom failure
18:44.13brlcadsure
18:46.17starseekerhttp://paste.lisp.org/display/88075
18:47.21brlcadhm, that looks good
18:48.27brlcadoh ,sweet! .. http://www.sealiesoftware.com/valgrind/
18:50.01starseekerhah!
19:06.17starseekerdiffing running the same debugging steps on both dm_X and dm_ogl, these are the only differences that occur prior to the X atom stuff: http://paste.lisp.org/display/88073#1
19:06.39starseekernothing null in there I can see
19:07.03brlcadthat's not null
19:07.08starseekerunless it's the missing "T" in private13
19:07.23brlcadit's 0xc i.e. 12
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19:42.33brlcadis having major net issues for some reason .. can't load web pages
19:43.10starseekergrowls at X11 + ogl + OSX...
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20:11.15starseekerbrlcad: I don't suppose the Togl widget would help us any?
20:12.23brlcadhow so?
20:12.59starseekerperhaps it has a different way of managing Tk/ogl interactions?
20:13.17brlcadthere is already the start of a tk dm
20:14.15starseekerapparently all of our display managers incorporate Tk?
20:15.50brlcadno
20:16.28brlcadmged's tk sets up a window, our dm draws into it using whatever protocol
20:16.52brlcadso there's an interaction there
20:17.26starseekerhmm
20:17.49starseekerso setting up a non-tk window would require a fair bit of libdm code?
20:19.46brlcadyou can't without making all of mged's gui non-tk
20:20.01brlcadlibdm knows nothing of tk
20:21.19brlcadthis is unbearable .. can barely use the network
20:21.27starseekerBut (for example) dm_ogl.c uses Tk_Window types (sorry if I'm being dense)
20:23.29brlcadah, yeah -- sorry didn't know that's what you meant
20:24.38brlcad"libdm knows nothing of tk" should have been "libdm knows nothing of tk-mged"
20:24.44starseekernods
20:24.57brlcadit still chats tk to either create the window or embed into a window
20:25.12starseekerwill that need to change for the new GUI?
20:25.26brlcadif we want to use libdm, yes
20:25.42brlcadotherwise, if it does it's own thing, won't matter
20:26.26starseekerah
20:27.44brlcadthe original purpose of libdm is no longer relevant, I wouldn't mind it going away
20:27.53brlcadit's purpose was abstracting away *hardware* differences
20:28.16starseekeroh, OK :-)
20:29.01brlcadit's still relevant for supporting entirely different output formats, like graphical display vs network display vs plot files vs image buffers, etc
20:29.23brlcadbut not necessarily for the myriad of graphical displays for wgl/ogl/tk/x11/whatever
20:30.04brlcadthere are projects that do a better job abstracting that than we do (namely sdl, tk, ogre, clanlib, etc)
20:30.43``Erikheh, clanlib, that's one I haven't heard in a long time
20:31.06brlcadit's ripe for major refactoring, because there is a lot of useful logic there
20:31.06brlcadespecially with something radically different like rtgl
20:31.47starseekersounds like a candidate for a 2 hour "educate the clueless new programmer" design discussion ;-0
20:31.54starseeker;-) even
20:32.16brlcadthe way tk was shoe-horned in for window creation is unfortunately messy, shouldn't be any direct tk in libdm except for the tk dm
20:34.21brlcadwith bob working on an ogre dm, that makes for a convenient bridging path from old to new
20:36.36brlcad``Erik: what's surprising is how well those guys keep at it over this many years .. :)
20:36.46brlcadthey've picked up activity massively this past year
20:37.01``Erikback in college, a buddy of mine (ken) and I were trying to make a worms2 clone with it
20:37.08``Erikit was... really... crappy :D
20:37.44brlcadthey were handicapped for years because of no 3dd support
20:37.57``Erikyeh, and we were probably using the blit routines wrong
20:38.03``Erikwas hard to make it ok on a 166mhz pentium
20:38.11brlcadheh, that'd do it
20:38.22``Erikyet worms2 ran swank on that machine, with no 3d accelerator in it
20:38.54``Erik(BUT, the pentium had... ooh, MMX!)
20:39.01brlcadplus back then, the clanlib guys were in college too :)
20:39.09``Erikyeh
20:39.22``Eriklooking at the history, it musta been really fresh back then
20:39.45brlcadthey've been working on a new GUI system for it, which if they can get fleshed out might give them a really nice niche to carve out for themselves
20:39.48``Erikfirst public release '99, this was probably in late '99 or '00
20:40.31``Erikpersonally, lispbuilder is what's making me put the throwpillow on my lap at this point
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20:41.57``Erikdynamic redefinition in a live environment + heavy MVC configuration... :) ^C^C and the 'draw' function changes in the running program, no need to reload data or nothin'
20:42.03``Erik*doingggngngnng*
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20:45.16starseekerwell, that was weird
20:45.39starseekerxterm froze, closed it, reopened, logged back in, and still had to detatch and reattach screen
20:46.31``Erikthat happens once in a while
20:47.00``Erikthe sighup doesn't make it to all the xterms child processes, so bash thinks it's still connected, so screen thinks its' still attached
20:47.52starseekerhumph
20:48.16starseekerwonders if there has been any more progress in the state of the art Qt+Ogre
20:48.38starseekerOgre forums suck for this kind of thing...
20:49.08``Erikwhat kind of thing, finding information? :D *duck*
20:49.16starseekeryep
20:49.46``Erikstarseeker: seen okra?
20:50.11starseekerno - what is it?
20:50.13``Erikokra+buclet might be nifty
20:50.16``Erikcl ogre
20:50.25``Erikbuclet is cl bullet
20:50.33starseekerheh - cool
20:57.51brlcadstarseeker: their folks work (i.e., have discussions) via their forums like how we work on irc
20:58.17brlcadif you want to know something, best to ask there instead if searching doesn't come up
20:59.02``Erikhas noticed that panda looks that way on the outside (and newbies are directed to the forums), but there's an awful lot that happens on irc in spats if you wait long enough
21:02.51brlcadthere is some that happens on irc, but most of their core devs aren't
21:03.15brlcadso you can get some info, but mostly anecdotal unless that particular dev is here
21:13.05``Erikyowza, that takes me back heh
21:13.46``Erikcrank up the main loop, update the code while running, bug causes the main loop to crash... just like kernal hacking on the c64 with a monitor :D
21:14.16starseekerposted a question - we'll see what happens
21:14.47``Erikassumes lithpth exception system could be convinced to allow the program to throw an error and continue, but doesn't know it yet :D
21:15.17``Erikbrlcad: set your dvr for 'stargate universe' tonight?
21:24.29brlcaddon't have dvr any more, mostly all on-line
21:24.43brlcadbut I'll probably try to watch that one live unless I forget
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21:33.31*** join/#brlcad Yoshi47 (n=jan@firewall.walinga.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
21:33.31*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
21:37.22*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.49.189)
22:48.43*** join/#brlcad mafm_ (n=mafm@193.153.198.190)
23:08.06*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@225.Red-83-45-72.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091003

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091003

00:15.06*** join/#brlcad learner (n=sean@c-68-48-70-217.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
00:15.36``Erikheh
00:15.44learneryeah..
00:15.53``Erikintarwebz get away from ya?
00:15.57learnerso it's thrashing.. trying to regain control
00:16.08``Erikit?
00:16.10learner.bz
00:16.13``Erikah
00:16.15``Erik:/
00:16.26``ErikI ain't fucked with shit on that machine, just provided a place to move to.
00:16.37``Erikwhta's it thrashing on?
00:16.42learnerless
00:16.58``Erikless doesn't cause thrashes.
00:17.13learnerwas grepping log files, less'ing them .. less would run out of memory, then it'd proceed to write out a 512MB core file
00:17.21``Erikah
00:17.30learnerthe kernel would insist on writing the core file, even if unlinked
00:17.38learnerand on a full fs, nonetheless
00:17.40``Erikthat kernel wouldn't have thrashed like that :/
00:17.48``Erikeven in good state, none the less the wreck it is
00:18.09``Erikdude
00:18.12``Erikcut&run
00:18.21``ErikI'll stay up as long as I can to aid in migration
00:18.24learnerso there are like three less procs all crashed, supposedly writing out
00:18.28``Erikit's 3 years past time.
00:18.32learnerwell right now I can't even get in
00:18.49learnerare you logged in?
00:18.59``Erikno
00:19.10``ErikI'm afraid to try if it's resource swamped
00:19.29``Erikseiral terminal would be good here about now
00:19.36learneryup, I have a request in
00:19.44``Eriknot hot line?
00:20.22``Erikis boggled that they don't have a 24/7 line for that kinda $'s
00:21.18``Erikheh, first time in like three months that I go get fucked up and the machine goes fitshaced. O.o
00:22.45``Erikhm, apparently a hand held radio control unit is insufficient, they now have voice controlled remove control vehicles.
00:23.11*** join/#brlcad d-lo (n=claymore@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ)
00:23.16``Erikwb, dave
00:24.00brlcadyay
00:24.20``Erikso the old box is live?
00:24.26brlcadthere is a 24/7 line
00:24.35brlcadthey're fast on the ticket system though
00:24.49brlcadand I can put better details there
00:24.58``ErikI'm a bit sad... was hoping for pressure to force a migration to the new hw
00:25.01``Erik:)
00:25.41``Eriknow the redundancy argument is forefront.
00:25.44``Erik*sigh*
00:27.48brlcadcan't exactly force migration if I can't get on the box to migrate :P
00:28.03``Erikis crit not repsonding?
00:28.50``Erikno, all teh shit on crit that I haven't tested is because it relies on proper reversable hostnames being set
00:29.19``ErikI can't fire up the zomfg config of apache because it does a dns lookup and does not own the IP's it wants to server.
00:29.38``Erikbind and mysqld should just pop right up
00:30.14``Eriktook it as far as he can
00:30.21``Erikmany many many months ago
00:33.09starseekeranything I can do?
00:35.13brlcaddance?
00:35.33starseekerheh
00:35.52brlcad``Erik: i know, and appreciated!
00:36.22starseekerwill delete stuff off of bz if that will help anything
00:36.32brlcadthe websites are what have to be migrated, and those can all happen pretty much right away, but just need to go one at a time to make sure they come up clean
00:36.41brlcadand for the db-centric ones, attach to their db
00:36.48brlcadengorges on indian food
00:36.53brlcadpreps for SGU
00:50.33brlcadyou say that every couple months you know
00:50.36brlcadyou're not using any space
00:52.53*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
00:54.17*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
01:00.39learnerand so it begins....
01:04.24``Erikalmost all the websites were fulyl migrated, as well as teh db...
01:04.39``Erikthe zomfg transition will have to cause pain... tehre ain't no way around it
01:05.24``Erikit can be mitigated by doing service at atime
01:05.29``Erikbut we aint' doin' that...
01:05.39``Erik<-- watches stargate universe, since he doesn't have a tivo
01:06.09``Erikfucking migrate it, if I'm needed, the people who need to know DO know my phone number
01:08.06``Erik(it's all good, if I get a phone call, then I watch this show at BRL-CAD's pad while he pours me dandy scotch ont he rocks, it's all good)
01:08.51``Erikmcgyver's gettin' effin' OLD
01:11.39starseekerbrlcad: I know, but sometimes a few megs can make all the difference in a tight corner
01:12.04``Erikheh, and here I was about to regenerate /usr/ports  O:-)
01:12.42``Erik(yes. I gutted irrelevant parts of the OS to keep the machine running. Really.)
01:12.43starseekerflinches when he sees those disk full warnings
01:13.21``Eriklike, we're leaving this land, torch shit to make  apath...
01:13.26``Erikover a year ago.
01:13.26``Erik:(
01:14.20``Erikwonders if brlcad grosk how much damage was done to avoid total shutdown
01:15.14``Erik(pretty much "gcc? bah, no one should be compiling anything here... gut majoy piecs of the compiler"
01:15.17``Erik)
01:15.35``Erikdamn irc logs
01:16.00starseekeryeah, I offer to delete every few months cause I keep forgetting just how huge the logs get
01:16.12``Erikyou're not the one
01:16.20starseekersome part of me still thinks a 1 Gig disk is a huge amount of space, I think
01:16.23learnerso far, a good start
01:16.45starseekerglances at the 1 terabyte external drive he got for <$200 and reflects how silly that is...
01:17.33learneryeah, even more insane how much the ISP charges for something a quarter that size and double the price
01:18.09learneroof, ate too much
01:18.10``Eriklearner: the thing you set up for her, does it automagically bzip2?
01:18.47``ErikI'll second you on scriptthink to cron it
01:21.19learnerdon't think it's automatic
01:21.48starseekerhmm
01:21.56starseekerah, there it is
01:21.59``Erikgive it a manual pump, think of what the lasting effect is?
01:22.43starseekerlocates the tarball of Multics he made
01:22.48starseekerfirst thing I uploaded to bz :-)
01:23.02``Erikheh
01:23.10``Erikwonders where his vgr disk image is
01:23.21starseekerthey had the code up on a website but no tarball - me fixed that problem :-)
01:23.51brlcadI did get her to change config so it at least breaks out logs daily now, so rsync isn't so painful
01:24.06``Erikja, ntoiced that
01:24.14``Erikbzip2 would still be nice for local disk space :D
01:24.36``Erikhaven't done an rsync in a fiar bit, was waiting for ya'll to do the migratrion
01:25.21*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177871686.dsl.bell.ca)
01:25.45``ErikI d'no, I'm thinking this is pretty bad, but my mum thinks it's decent :/
01:26.13brlcadwow 4.5 GB of *just* freenode notifications
01:26.20``ErikYEAH, NO SHIT?
01:26.21``Erik..
01:26.42``Erikno, I'm pointing my finger at her just for shits and giggles. :(
01:27.17``Erikdare ya to look at cpu used since last boot.
01:27.32``Erikhere's a hint, the top couple consumers? irssi.
01:27.43``Erikabove mysql even
01:30.46*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
01:37.29starseeker``Erik: what's pretty bad?
01:44.43*** part/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177871686.dsl.bell.ca)
02:27.41*** join/#brlcad roberthl (n=robert@rhl.me.uk)
02:33.32Ralith``Erik: weird.
02:33.38Ralith'course, it is perl
02:33.45Ralithnot the most efficient tool in the shed.
02:35.34starseekerRalith: how goes school?
02:37.30Ralithpretty good so far
02:37.38Ralithmidterms coming up next week though
02:37.51Ralithbit intimidated; one of my classes apparently has a history of people getting a 40% average.
02:38.00Raliths/people/tests/
02:38.47Ralithout of four classes I've got two which are genuinely interesting/educational; the remainder is the mandatory introductory course and the english course.
02:39.04Raliththe latter of which is interesting enough, but the former puts me to sleep.
02:39.28Ralithgrabs some food
02:53.04starseekernods
02:53.09starseekeryeah, intro classes are like that
03:03.21starseekerhrm - looks like I didn't commit that set of changes to the pipe csgbrep example
03:03.47starseekerhopes he didn't forget to commit the pipe changes too...
03:04.14brlcadI can log in later to check if you want
03:04.54starseekerbrlcad: no worries - I'll get it on Monday if need be
03:05.09starseekeris disturbed that the current example in svn fails...
03:05.30starseekernow that I'm testing, it's something about the nmg code specifically that gentoo doesn't like
03:06.34starseekerwonders if he should redo the nmg_brep code to use more advanced routines instead of "building from scratch"
03:06.40starseekerbet it would be more robust
03:08.44starseekermight even avoid this problem...
03:13.38starseekerbrlcad: thanks though :-)
03:13.56starseekerah HAHHHH
03:15.06*** join/#brlcad kanzure_ (i=bryan@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu)
03:15.07*** join/#brlcad alex_joni (n=alex_jon@emc/board-of-directors/alexjoni) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
03:15.07*** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=starseek@63.246.136.16) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
03:15.55starseekerfinds the thing in nmg_brep he should have been freeing
03:16.16starseekerdoes happy dance - should still redo nmg code probably, but now pressure is somewhat lower
03:16.41*** join/#brlcad CIA-33 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
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03:17.17starseekerbet it lost my commit - phooey
03:17.27*** part/#brlcad CIA-46 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
03:18.24brlcadI got a mail
03:18.50starseekercool
03:21.57starseekerthat's a good note to get some zzzzs on
03:22.31starseekerand let my box compile its way out of this fun little libxcb issue...
04:30.51*** join/#brlcad Patmcc19 (n=chatzill@97-117-150-47.phnx.qwest.net)
04:48.20*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
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11:58.41starseekerAnybody know of a software system that can take a stack of old files and build a revision control history from them based on dates?
15:17.46louipcI think I could use that too
15:29.24*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@225.Red-83-45-72.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
17:24.39*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-185-57.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
18:14.44starseekerreflects that a revision controlled version of US Law would be a good way to REALLY suck up bz file system space :-)
18:18.42brlcadheh
18:22.20starseekerhey, cool:  http://github.com/divegeek/uscode
18:24.02starseekerknows better but still immediately pulls a copy of it...
18:24.10starseekeryay external hard drive
18:35.11starseekerwonders how long before Verizon regrets ever turning on our internet :-P
19:09.32*** join/#brlcad Patmcc19 (n=chatzill@97-117-150-47.phnx.qwest.net)
20:50.53louipcheheeh
22:21.18Ralithstarseeker: might not be hard to script something like that system.
22:22.17starseekerRalith: maybe.  I'm thinking it's something subtly different from normal VCS - in effect there's a VCS on top of a VCS
22:22.52starseekeryou want to track and revert changes, but at the same time the results of changes is intended to be a NEW change history independent of the repository alteration history
22:23.43starseekermight be interesting for fossil guys or those who deal with evolutionary DNA research
22:24.13``Erikamuses himself by stabbing ralith some more
22:27.15Ralithignites ``Erik
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091004

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091004

02:58.57starseekerreflects that if the table being freed really resolves the NURBS issue, it's time to handle translate and rotate along with robustness testing
02:59.18starseekerthen the holy grail - integrated surface/surface intersect logic! :-)
03:00.22brlcadwhat did freeing the ptbl have to do with nurbs?
03:00.59brlcadjdoliner's start on surface/surface can hopefully be put to good use
03:01.47brlcadeven if incomplete, using it as the starting point to build from where that's presently at (even if it radically/totally changes) should prove useful
03:19.08starseekerbrlcad: nothing directly, but it was preventing me from doing multiple csg->nmg->brep conversions in csgbrep at the same time
03:19.39starseekerwhich would also have been triggered instantly doing any kind of non-trivial brep conversion of a csg model
03:20.03starseekeryep, jdoliner's code will be the starting point
03:23.21starseekerhas fingers crossed - there's a chance things will start to "click" into place now
03:33.17*** join/#brlcad branco (n=branco@79.114.28.76)
03:34.02*** part/#brlcad branco (n=branco@79.114.28.76)
03:37.27starseekerYES, finally - got through the upgrade cycle
03:43.40starseekercrosses his fingers - now, after all that is it in a rebootable state...
03:45.25CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36144 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/avs.c): move avs doxygen comments from implementation (source) to interface (header).
03:46.21starseekerwoot
03:46.27starseekerit works :-)
03:46.40starseekernow I can go back to breaking it :-P
03:58.15CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36145 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): move magic, bomb, bitv, and backtrace doxygen comments from implementation (source) to interface (header).
04:01.08CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36146 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/brlcad_path.c): move bomb/exit doxygen comments from implementation (source) to interface (header).
04:01.15brlcadops, wrong comment
04:07.28CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36147 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: make static functions use the HIDDEN define so we can turn then on/off. prefix all static functions with underscore to distinguish them from public API.
04:21.37CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36148 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: formatting and other misc cleanup
10:01.20*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
10:01.20*** join/#brlcad brlcad (n=sean@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ)
10:47.56*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@225.Red-83-45-72.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
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15:38.52CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36149 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: cleanup, though much more to come.
15:48.07CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36150 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/cmd.h src/libbu/cmd.c src/libbu/cmdhist.c): migrate command func docs into the headers
17:19.36*** join/#brlcad velociostrich_ (n=nsd@c-76-99-214-65.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
17:33.53*** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
18:33.40*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14EAF8.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:31.56*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=Matthew@dhcp-143-147.mcme-students.carleton.ca)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091005

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091005

00:42.36``ErikO.o
01:41.36*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177871686.dsl.bell.ca)
02:05.05*** join/#brlcad puddingpimp (n=dave@gateway.quickcircuit.co.nz)
07:34.27*** join/#brlcad elena1 (n=elena@89.136.118.141)
08:12.39*** join/#brlcad _clock_ (n=_sushi_@80-218-244-105.dclient.hispeed.ch)
08:45.07brlcadhi elena!
11:49.27Yoshi4734356:10 mged
12:05.40brlcadheh, point of diminishing returns :)
12:18.33d-lomernin all.
12:32.40starseekerYoshi47: I think that tesselation has probably reached the point where it will take less time to implement, test and run a better algorithum instead of letting that one finish ;-)
12:33.01Yoshi47but.. but.. but..
12:43.47*** join/#brlcad _clock_ (n=_sushi_@80-218-244-105.dclient.hispeed.ch)
13:06.26*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@adsl-99-147-180-206.dsl.lgtpmi.sbcglobal.net)
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15:09.34``Erikyeh, wow, I'd call it, yoshi... looks like we might be doing an experimental 'marching cubes' style tesselator as an alternate path, that might be done before your nmg tesselate run O.O
15:10.04*** join/#brlcad parigaudi (n=quassel@217.91.127.94)
15:19.24CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36151 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/spltest.c: Fixed a typo.
16:34.00brlcador let it keep going and be the first to try the experimental one when it's ready in a couple months .. see which finishes first ;)
16:34.57Ralithooh, new tesselation that soon?
16:35.04Ralithnow *there's* motivation to get back on g3d
16:36.02brlcadneeds to look for his old code
16:38.22CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36152 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/ (Makefile.am dmtype.tcl tclIndex): stub out files for a command to change display manager types.
16:39.07starseekernotes that there is still no reply to his ogre posting...
16:39.28yukonbobhappy monday #brlcad
16:44.39CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36153 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/dmtype.tcl: Well, openmv LOOKS like the command to call for new dm setup but it's not displaying...
16:50.26CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36154 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/csgbrep.cpp: OK, looks like csgbrep can run cleanly now - enable all except dsp (which works only if terra.dsp is in the same directory.)
17:15.22*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-185-57.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
17:37.41CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36155 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/dmtype.tcl: OK, this refreshes it - now it just crashes after trying to do anything. (arrrgh)
17:55.20CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36156 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/dmtype.tcl: OK, at least it doesn't die now, but background color info is lost and it's hard to tell if the type really has been changed, plus fb_close_existing errors...
18:19.09starseekerchuckles - ifp->if_name is /dev/X and X24_interface.if_type is "24 bit X Window System (X11)" - fb_close_existing is doing a strcasecmp to see if those are the same
18:19.12starseekeruh, nooo...
18:22.45starseekerbrlcad: what is the "right" way to handle a comparison like that?
18:45.07*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.49.189)
18:50.13*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14E396.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:03.39brlcadit shouldn't be comparing if_name to if_type
19:04.49brlcadthat could be a bug
19:05.15brlcadat a glance, looks like one, but would need to dive more deeply
19:08.45Ralithstarseeker: ogre posting?
19:09.32brlcadyeah, I think the header is (now) wrong.  used to be user->type  and app->name .. but now they're name and description
19:12.17brlcadafter four hours of research, phone calls, and more calls .. I finally found a replacement battery in stock.  woot!  (they have exactly 1)
19:25.48d-lolaptop battery?
19:34.40brlcadcar
19:35.24brlcaddrained it empty too many times, now it won't build a charge
19:35.40d-lowow as in the brandy new car?
19:35.50brlcadyeah
19:35.58brlcadthe stock battery is known for this
19:36.13yukonbobthat's what you get for leaving the flux capacitor on w/o the car running...
19:36.20d-lohow is it that it was drained to zero capacity?  Forget the lights or something?
19:36.42brlcadthe alarm system drains it
19:36.46brlcadpretty quickly at that
19:37.08d-lohuh.  Who'd a thunk.
19:37.28yukonbobmodern cars.
19:37.42brlcadyou have about two weeks on full charge on a new battery before the alarm and ECU will drain it dry
19:38.10yukonboboverheard a conversation about newer Mercedes having a firewire (!) connector available to the car if you break one of the taillights...
19:38.15yukonbobhasn't confirmed...
19:38.20d-loand that is even with driving it?
19:38.33brlcadI hadn't driven it since thurs or friday
19:39.03brlcadand this is at least the third time to go dead, so I'm sure there has been crystalline buildup
19:40.15d-loNot to knock that machine of yours, but the undersized capacity battery seems like a design flaw almost...
19:41.32brlcadnot according to their principles -- it's all about track use; no reason you can't charge it every night in their mind
19:41.59brlcadstock is tradeoff "light" battery with a decent cold-crank
19:42.11d-loheh, well I suppose that does make sense.
19:42.22d-lowhats the capacity/cca of the stock?
19:42.28d-loits gotta be tiny :)
19:42.45brlcadif they had their druthers, I'm sure they'd opt for a voltphreak nano lithium
19:43.39brlcadbut I aint paying a grand for a battery even if it is a sixth the weight :)
19:43.42brlcadtempting though
19:43.46d-loheh, I'm sure :)
19:43.51brlcadit's not, like I said -- they went with a balance
19:44.20brlcadnot too big, but barley big enough to be a weekly driver without having the alarm suck it dry
19:44.56d-lolol, start keeping a spare battery in the passenger's seat :)
19:45.09brlcadkinda defeats the weight savings :)
19:45.28brlcadactually, the battery i'm getting is a little bigger, 6 lbs heavier
19:45.38d-lodead battery kinda defeats the whole car thing :P
19:45.55brlcadand a solid 30% or so more capacity
19:46.09d-losounds like a good upgrade then.
19:46.19starseekerRalith: http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=52872&sid=eec749b9549d58752765d06e745084ba
19:47.07brlcadwas going to get one of these.. but the only distributor is up in fallston and they're closed mondays (and I don't feel like waiting)  http://www.sector111.com/handler.cfm?cat_id=20216&cat_id=20228&prod_id=1212&function=product
19:47.54d-lo12AH?  lordy...
19:48.41d-loWhy not just get a few packages of AA's and duck tape them together.  a single AA has 2500 mAH ;)
19:48.55brlcadd-lo: here's the schedule of batteries that fit without "too" much hassle (almost all require a custom mount), http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/attachments/f129/133373d1252964925-battery-choices-information-battery-schedule.jpg
19:49.29brlcadthe top three are the stock versions (I have a variant of #2)
19:50.52brlcadiirc, the car drains about 35-40 mAH/s with the immobilizer and alarm on
19:51.02d-lothats crazy man.
19:51.10brlcadthat's cobra :)
19:51.46brlcadnot really a lotus thing, just a high-end alarm .. the microwave system is probably the biggest drain
19:52.34brlcad(stick your hand in with the top off, alarm will go off)
19:53.00brlcadgoes to pick up that battery, cyas
19:57.43CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36157 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/dmtype.tcl: put colors back
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20:23.51CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36158 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/ (dmtype.tcl help.tcl): update dmtype, add help
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21:34.55starseekerwoot - dmtype set rtgl works with an rtgl enabled build :-)
22:07.05``ErikO.O dead battery already? damn
22:07.26``Erikglad I bought a german machine, not a british one :>
22:19.05brlcad``Erik: I suspect the car sat on the dealer's lot dead for weeks
22:19.50brlcadit was dead before I test drove it, they had to quick-jump it :)
22:27.48``Erikah, so the battery got that one brutal deep cycle that screwed it up?
22:28.27brlcadno matter now, this new battery is a beast
22:28.49brlcadprobably
22:28.58brlcadplus it was a wet battery, not sealed
22:30.13``Erikwell... http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/show/powerlaps.shtml so ptbtbtbbtt
22:30.14``Erik:D
22:30.48brlcadthe alternator probably boiled off a fair bit of the acid water recharging it from dry, could hear is sloshing (seemed more than usual) ..
22:31.15``Erikhm, wonder if the battery woulda been salvagable... *shrug*
22:31.25``Erikgotta pay to play, batteries are cheap :)
22:31.33brlcadwas looking at the exige-s's supercharger just yesterday..
22:32.11brlcadcould possibly get it and installed for less than 5g
22:32.27brlcadyeah, they are cheap
22:32.58brlcadwell this new one wasn't (the sales dude even balked) but it's all relative and this problem shouldn't happen again
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22:36.17``Erikhm, my next few mods are going to be more suspension tuning
22:36.36``Erikya just don't need power if you never have to slow down... :D
22:37.00``Erikstrut braces, mmmmebbe coilovers
22:37.13``Erikthe shortthrow shifter is nice
22:37.55``Erikamusingly, the black one was all sorts of souped up when I bought it... race pedals, short-throw, massive ceramic brakes on the front, ...
22:38.12``Erik<-- is just too much of a puss to push it
23:15.40starseekerwinces - rtgl is... rather brittle at the moment
23:29.10``Erikheh
23:49.49``Erikcranks up barry mcguire O.o
23:58.45brlcadstarseeker: heh, you should try toggling X and ogl first :)
23:59.05brlcadrtgl is more than brittle .. unlike the other two dm's, it's also tightly tied into mged's update loop
23:59.42brlcadnifty, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/04/AR2009100402533.html?hpid=sec-politics
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091006

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091006

00:24.41starseekerbrlcad: X and ogl seem to work - aside from that message about the bogus string comparison
00:25.04starseekerthat is nifty
00:25.29starseekerponders downloading an archive of the federal register to go with his us code download...
00:46.18CIA-33libirc: 03mm_202 * r375 10/trunk/libirc/include/IRCTextUtils.h: Include <string.h> in IRCTextUtils.h. gcc 4.3.3 throws errors without it.
00:58.51starseekeruh... why are we getting libirc commit postings?
00:59.10brlcadwe always have
00:59.16starseekeroh, ok
00:59.38brlcadwhen libirc was started, users were pointed to here
01:02.18``Erikdang irc weenies, I'm glad I'm not one of those nerds
02:06.38Ralithlibirc?
02:41.48starseekerwishes x86 could die...
02:42.53starseekerbut suspects the projectsions are right and x86 will live on forever under the hood - yuck
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03:12.37louipcuh I like it. It runs my softwares
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12:32.54brlcadwaves to d_rossberg
12:44.55d_rossbergbrlcad: how are the version 7.16.0 tests going on?
12:52.20brlcadd_rossberg: green on all except mac, but it's tagged
12:52.34brlcadjust hadn't uploaded the tarballs yet (later today) and sent the announcement
12:54.57d_rossbergfine, therefore i may publish my dll packages
12:55.26d_rossbergthey are already prepared
12:56.30brlcadoh yeah, whenever something is tagged, it's good to go
13:17.57d_rossbergany idea of how to add release notes to a file on sourceforge's file release system?
13:22.24d_rossberg.. ok, got it, i've to write them into a file and upload this file ...
14:05.31brlcadactually I was wondering the same thing when they switched to the new system
14:06.16brlcadd_rossberg: do they recognize any specially named files like README or ReleaseNotes.txt or something?
14:14.35d_rossbergno, you have to upload a text file with the release notes on sourceforge
14:14.50d_rossbergthen you can label this file as an release notes file
14:15.09brlcadright, but there's nothing they recognize to hook into the gui with little icons like before?
14:15.18brlcadthey had release notes and changelog before
14:15.43d_rossbergafter you did this, the file can be choosen as release notes for a package file
14:16.08d_rossberg(see the 7.16.0 dll packages for example)
14:17.15d_rossbergthere seems to be no extra change log any more
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14:40.53CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36159 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/openw.tcl: Add basic menu to toggle display managers in MGED.
15:08.35CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36160 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/ (dmtype.tcl openw.tcl): Tweak menu text, put ae setting back after dmtype change
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18:34.25brlcadnews
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18:43.53brlcadwee
18:46.25starseekerbrlcad: news?
18:46.46brlcadNEWS
18:51.42starseekeroh :-)
18:51.58starseekerwas waiting til I got the menus sorted out
18:52.05brlcadnods
18:52.35brlcadwasn't sure
18:53.02starseekerwhat I'd LIKE to do is expand the dm command to allow me to ask (say) if ogl is present, but that would break the paradigm of the dm command being just dm set ...
18:55.33starseekerstill feels silly enhancing the old MGED menus, but oh well...
18:59.42brlcadthink of it more as it's a mod that will get heavily used for at least a few years
19:00.15brlcaddm command should/can control, query, set, unset, manage the display managers..
19:00.42brlcadnothing wrong with "dm valid ogl" or "dm query ogl" or "dm list", etc
19:01.02starseekerOK, cool
19:01.11starseekerthat'll keep things cleaner.
19:01.28brlcaddmtype -> dm set ?
19:02.32starseekerset appears to be used to set dm specific variables, so I wasn't sure if it would violate expectations to have a dm set command change the dm itself rather than a variable with in the dm context
19:03.18brlcadtcl-style would be something like "dm configure -key val"
19:03.36brlcaddm is a deb command
19:03.44brlcader, dev command
19:03.47brlcadso you can do what you need to it
19:04.03starseekerwell, if it's supposed to be set by the menu anyhow...
19:04.18starseekerok, cool :-)
19:04.37brlcadright, the user-documented way should just be the gui
19:05.19brlcadi mean could mention it if it's a unique command/subcommand, but not really worth the maintenance or effort if it needs to change
19:05.29brlcadmenu is simple/sufficient/useful
19:05.51brlcadarcher will be rather different regardless, then the command-line method can be better sorted out
19:06.25starseekernods
19:27.44brlcad~seen talcite
19:27.47ibottalcite <n=Matthew@d24-141-28-249.home.cgocable.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 32d 16h 50m 34s ago, saying: 'hey guys. What's the tool to use for signal processing?'.
19:28.35CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36161 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Get menues working conditionally in MGED (via expansion of the dm devel command) and preserve ae orientation in working view - probably need to do more state preservation stuff later.
19:42.38CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36162 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/dm.xml: Add a mention of the valid subcommand to the dm man page.
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20:56.48brlcadmm.. dm valid should return 0/1 boolean, so you can use it in logic:  if [dm valid ogl] { puts "woo hoo" } { puts "aww, shucks" }
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21:12.26CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36163 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: shift up the next iteration tasks. converting nmgs to opennurbs is complete (presently happens during ray-trace only, but there is a simple routine). gui support for swapping display managers is complete.
21:13.47CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36164 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: need to rename istat/dstat to avoid naming conflicts being manually worked around in our fedora integration
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091007

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091007

01:47.22CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36165 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/cmd.h src/libbu/cmdhist_obj.c): migrate command history func docs into the header
01:49.32CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36166 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libbu/uce-dirent.h rt/do.c rt/viewedge.c rt/viewrad.c): goodbye 1992. DEC __alpha is no more.
01:53.21CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36167 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/ (viewedge.c viewrad.c): cleanup
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02:00.23starseekeridly wonders if FreeCAD compiles and runs any better yet
02:03.22CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36168 10/brlcad/trunk/ (9 files in 2 dirs): more libbu header migration and cleanup to put docs with api
02:28.22``Erikhm.
02:28.28``Erikcan, uh
02:28.36``Erikwe ditch the alliant and gould shit, too? O.o :D
02:29.05``Eriky'know, goodbye 1978? O.o
02:29.37``Erik(or 82, or whatever)
02:31.02yukonbobwin 3
02:31.08yukonbobfails self
02:32.37``Erik*blink* *blink*
02:32.47``Erikwasn't that, like, late 80's?
02:33.13``Erikoh wow, early 90's
02:33.25``Erik<-- cut his teeth on cp/m O.o
02:36.40``Erikbut, yeah, we still have a slew of ifdefs for gould and alliant equipment, probably other ancients like the ibm 360 or 390 :/
02:37.02``Erikcray2, ...
02:37.48``Erikcra1, whatever eta10 is, vax, ...
02:38.02``Erikconvex
02:38.43``Erikmight be premature to eliminate the sgi and mips defines, O.o but alpha was hardly the most obsolete in the listing here :D
02:39.30``Erikwonders if that's a good "junior developer" task, learn some codebase and history at the same time
03:14.09starseekerattempts the opencascade ebuild yet again...
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05:16.55``Erikjabs brlcad until he wakes up to help mal
05:17.22MaloeranEheh thanks, though let him sleep :)
05:17.35``Erikhe doesn't sleep.
05:17.50``Eriknot until he burns out and dies, anyways
05:17.52``ErikO.o
05:17.58MaloeranHe... rests? He closes his eyes and plans future code?
05:18.18louipchehe
05:19.14MaloeranWell brlcad, Erik tells me you could have some recommendations for online banking in the US. It seems "the law changed" and SURVICE will no longuer be able to directly deposit in my bank account in Canada, and I would like to avoid having to handle checks
05:19.59MaloeranI only need a bank that will receive the money and allow me to forward it to Canada, at low cost
05:21.40louipcsome canadian banks have some kind of partnerships with american ones
05:22.31MaloeranParternships?
05:22.35louipc... I was able to use my bank card in certain american ATMs without paying the service charge
05:23.01``Erikatm network agreements may not cover this legality issue
05:23.20louipcmaybe not
05:23.30MaloeranIt's a legality issue, they could make direct deposits in my bank account just fine, they did for almost 3 years
05:23.41louipcbut there could be something similar
05:24.24``Erikmy gut feeling is that one of the online only banks would be optimal for mals need :/
05:24.38MaloeranSurely so Erik, but I have no idea where to begin my search
05:24.58louipcing? :P
05:28.46MaloeranAny second opinion on ING?...
05:29.21MaloeranAmerican checks take weeks to clear up here, and it's quite inconvenient if I'm out of the country, ah gez
05:30.42``Erikmal: maybe you could ask http://news.ycombinator.com/ ? they're like slashdot minus the suck with a huge slathering of (sane) business added
05:30.43louipcor maybe hsbc...
05:31.13``Erikperhaps a well worded question would get some useful responses from people in teh same situation :)
05:31.57louipcbest to call and ask I'd say
05:32.23MaloeranStrange site, Erik, never heard of it
05:32.32``Erikheh
05:32.39``ErikI've been hooked on it for the last year or so
05:32.53MaloeranOh, and what's your comic url again?
05:32.59MaloeranI don't have it bookmarked on the laptop
05:33.00``Erikjust about everything on slashdot that interests me shows up there a few days earlier
05:33.07``Erikbrlcad.org/~erik/comics/comic.php
05:33.39MaloeranThanks
05:33.52``ErikI have 90% of a replacement ready, just lack the will to finish it... php/mysql, which I've decided is inferior.
05:34.59``Erik(adds the notions of a user so you can specify which comics you care about and does dynamic soft updating so'z you don't brutalize the website and get all the 'missed' comics if you don't check daily)
05:35.29``Erika couple sites are real stinkers, like boasas has the 'next' button on the latest page wrap to the first
05:42.55louipcfor sure
05:43.57``Erik<-- willing to call it gpl or something and chuck the src out O.o
05:44.37louipcoh your replacement is inferior?
05:45.51``Erikit's insufficient in a couple minor aspects
05:45.57louipcah
05:47.13``Erikactually, I think the wraparound is handled, the "default page" issue is the gotcha
05:47.33``Erik<A HREF="/index.php">Next</A>
05:59.44MaloeranDoesn't look like I can open an account online anywhere since I'm not an US resident, I'll have to go to some bank personally
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08:42.55brlcadMaloeran: gotta run, but back in a couple hours -- ING is a great choice
08:43.31brlcadthere's at least five that are really good, international, full-service online banks now
08:44.29brlcadE*Trade Bank is another good one
08:46.18brlcadwells fargo was in my top three too iirc
08:46.52brlcaddepends mostly how much reserve cash you keep in terms of fees, minimums, account types, etc
08:47.52brlcadruns off into the morning
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12:15.26d-lolol, this is pretty good:  http://michaelfuchs.org/razorsedge/index.php?story=2009-04-24
12:25.17starseekergrunts - FreeCAD fails to build again
12:25.45brlcadclassic :) .. http://michaelfuchs.org/razorsedge/img/graphjam/pacman.jpg
12:28.02starseekerbrlcad: hehe
12:45.46MaloeranThanks brlcad. If that helps, I don't intend to keep much into that account, it would just be on the way to forward the funds to Canada
12:46.21MaloeranI can't open an account in any of these online, I'll have to do that in Baltimore, so I would prefer to find a good one right away
12:46.51MaloeranMost of all, one that allows wire transfers to foreign banks from the internet
12:47.40brlcadMaloeran: you can't open an ING account?
12:48.09brlcadonce you have an ABA, you don't need wire transfers -- they can just do direct deposit
12:48.41brlcadwith direct deposit, most of them will decrease or eliminate their minimum balance requirements
12:48.41archivisttheses days you need real hard proof to get a bank account
12:48.41MaloeranI have an ABA, they can't transfer to Canada due to some legal change since September 18th
12:49.11brlcadyou mean to transfer to some other account in canada?
12:49.34brlcadwire transfer != direct deposit
12:49.36``Erikhttp://flowingdata.com/wp-content/uploads/yapb_cache/piechart_300x1981.6sitjfs3d4kc88skoc40o8g4w.8td8r2s3w1cs4kksc4okksgg8.th.jpeg
12:49.51``Erikhttp://bitsandpieces.us/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/imagesmr-20t-20graph.jpg
12:50.08MaloeranI know I know, I'm just saying I already have an ABA but it's some legal issue apparently.  I could transfer to said ABA myself from the american bank then, that's what you are saying
12:50.33brlcadyeah, or just use the online bank as your only/main bank
12:50.38brlcadthat's actually what I do now
12:50.58MaloeranI'll need a credit card with them then
12:51.05brlcado.O
12:51.07brlcadwhy?
12:51.18brlcadoh, you'd need at least a debit card, sure
12:51.31brlcadnot a credit account, though
12:52.11MaloeranI'm just saying it won't be my "only/main bank" if I have to keep using my credit card from the RBC
12:52.45brlcadof course, you'd drop the RBC, get a new debit card for ing or etrade or whomever
12:52.49MaloeranHaving a look at ING. Most online banks I had looked at yesterday would not open the account the moment I said I wasn't an US resident or I didn't have an US security number
12:53.35brlcadah, that could be an issue .. I can see wells fargo not allowing that, but not a couple of the bigger international banks
12:53.39MaloeranING requires the security number and there is no "Country" field to specify one's home address
12:53.53MaloeranSo I'll have to go to some bank personally
12:53.56brlcadis it actually required?  000-00-0000 :)
12:54.30MaloeranAnd I can't define my home address? :) No country field, and a "State" drop-down menu
12:56.31louipcwhy not call/email the bank and ask about it?
12:57.03MaloeranSurely I would have to present myself personally with a passport at least
12:57.13MaloeranI guess I'll go ING in Baltimore next week, thanks
12:57.19Maloeranto* ING
12:58.04louipcyeah they definitely need to confirm your identity
12:58.30brlcadMaloeran: might want to try E*Trade Bank, they have a pretty good international presence and excellent e-services
12:58.33louipcbut I don't think you have to show up in person
12:58.46brlcadtheir site says international customers have to call
12:58.55MaloeranThe strange part is that I read about the supposed changes on IATs ( International ACH Transfers ) since September 18th, and the US authorities only want to collect some extra information to prevent money laundering
12:58.58brlcad1-800-387-2331
12:59.05MaloeranIt doesn't seem like that would prevent SURVICE from doing IATs
12:59.19MaloeranAh I see, thanks brlcad
13:00.18brlcadthey have a specific international site, but it looks like it might only cater to stock trading .. and bizzarely, canada isn't in their list of countries
13:00.46``Erikdid they already update the site and have canada listed as the 51st state? :D *duck*
13:01.19MaloeranIf we were the 51st state, I wouldn't have these issues with international ACH transfers :)
13:02.10``Erik(a bank jumping the gun? gov't being slow? no, that couldn't possibly happen ;)
13:02.47brlcadMaloeran: for a measly 10% fee, I'll gladly open the account for you and do monthly wire transfers ;)
13:03.22``Erikcounts the number of TLA's suddenly very interested in brlcad O.o
13:03.30MaloeranYes, that's... very generous :)
13:03.32MaloeranWhat's a TLA?
13:03.34brlcadit is really odd that canada is missing from that list
13:03.36brlcad~tla
13:03.37ibotit has been said that tla is Three Letter Acronym, or the name of the binary for GNU arch
13:04.02louipchahhh
13:04.06brlcad"cia", "nsa", "dhs", ... :)
13:04.13MaloeranOh. :)
13:04.41louipcmore devs then?
13:04.57brlcadI'll cut their agents in for 5%
13:05.26``Eriknotes that brlcad left the scariest of them all off his list... irs O.O
13:05.35brlcadheh
13:06.19MaloeranOr I just fly every month to some Branch Banking and Trust Company to cash checks directly, woohoo....
13:06.55*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-185-57.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
13:09.40``Erikmars in 39 days, that'd be nutty
13:13.18``Eriklooks at the LCROSS impact schedule and curses the fact that he lives in french polynesia
13:16.29MaloeranIsn't that supposed to crash in the moon?
13:16.36``Erikyup
13:16.56MaloeranYou should be safe in french polynesia then
13:17.11MaloeranOh you mean, you won't be able to see it from a telescope or so
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13:17.21``Erikheh, it'll be daybreak here so the plume will be obfuscated
13:17.37``Erik7:31am :/
13:18.11MaloeranI'm sure they'll display pretty pictures on television, a lot better than you could get with a telescope
13:18.54``Erikyes, and seeing photographs of the articles in a museum is just as good as going
13:18.54``ErikO.o
13:19.32``Erikthis one's neat because when it does a dirt-torpedo, they get to say "uh, we meant to do that"
13:19.35``Erik:D
13:20.22MaloeranYup :D
13:21.41Maloerancan open a bank account with ingdirect.ca, but then surely that would qualify as a canadian bank
13:30.00MaloeranNeat, Somali pirates attacked a french warship thinking it was a cargo ship. That didn't work out too well for them
13:31.45``Erikhm, fuel supply ship, not a warship, but not completely unarmed and passive :)
13:32.52archivistcommand and supply ship, the Somme, repelled the attack and chased the pirates, capturing five of them
13:33.02``Eriklooking at the pic of la somme, they musta been really retarded
13:33.27``Erikah, at night
13:33.30archivisthttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8294858.stm
13:33.40``Erikhttp://www.france24.com/en/20091007-french-navy-captures-pirates-attacking-ship-somalia-somme
13:35.59``Erikkinda messed up, after their gov't collapsed, chinese drag fishers went hogwild devastating local fishing, so the remains of the coast guard and some fishermen tried to chase them off, but stealing and ransoming seemed too attractive :/
13:38.53MaloeranIf they had actually captured ships within their territorial waters, they wouldn't be regarded as much as pirates
13:39.50``Erikthey did, but they ransomed them, which changed what the world thought  back in the 90's...
13:40.38``Erik*shrug* as with all things, it's far more complicated once ya look into the details :)
13:41.57MaloeranOh, it wasn't a ransom, just a... fine? :)
13:42.07MaloeranYes, it's a rather complicated issue
14:05.45*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14EC37.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:49.55*** join/#brlcad _clock_ (n=_sushi_@80-218-244-105.dclient.hispeed.ch)
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21:09.07brlcadMaloeran: call them .. if their ABA number is 031176110 .. then it's no different :)
21:09.26brlcad(ingdirect.ca)
21:41.24*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
22:11.58brlcadstarseeker: http://www.stellarsoftware.com/
22:12.07brlcadmaybe interest you, or ideas for us to implement :)
22:15.34CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36169 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/ (dm-ogl.c dm-rtgl.c): Do what dm-X does and abbreviate some of the struct references for readibility.
22:16.06brlcadjust a few days ago, ouch.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kamdesh
22:16.25starseekerdammit
22:16.46starseekerwas too slow on the ctrl-c
22:18.31CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36170 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: Whoops, sucked in dm-rtgl by mistake.
22:18.48starseekerbrlcad: hmm, cool :-)
22:19.34louipchah there's a huge gap between what nato claims the taliban lost, and the taliban claim
23:10.19``Erikit's war, everyone loses
23:33.37*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.49.189)
23:43.04MaloeranThanks brlcad, though it looks like ING has distinct entities for each country it operates in
23:43.22MaloeranIn other words, ingdirect.ca is a canadian bank so that won't help
23:43.40starseekerMaloeran: you may find the law specifically precludes what you're trying to do - it might be worth checking on
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091008

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091008

00:06.33CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36171 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-ogl.c: Ooops, typos.
00:09.25starseekerman this ogl bug is subtle
00:10.37louipc``Erik: but did the taliban lose 100 or 7?
00:23.50starseekerhelllllp...
00:29.58starseekerhow do I debug this thing???
00:32.45starseekercan't believe it's UpdateTitle that results in sudden death...
00:37.57starseekercontemplates making a Tk window before calling ogl_open and "faking" a gui startup sequence
00:38.15starseekerq
00:38.18starseekerwhoops
03:58.06CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36172 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/globals.c): move the doxy docs for the globals declared extern in bu.h to bu.h
11:51.23CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36173 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (4 files in 2 dirs): initial work for a building/structure proc-db
11:53.53d-lobrlcad or anyone else:  is there any existing functionality for tracking 'used' object names inside a database? (so as to prevent duplication)
11:58.30brlcadyou do a db_lookup on the name
11:58.39brlcadLOOKUP_QUIET
11:59.07d-logood deal, thanks.
11:59.22brlcadthat is also a librt routine, not a write-only operation
11:59.49d-loAlso, is there any dire reason (beyong preference) to use C over C++?
12:00.07brlcadno such assertion
12:01.04brlcadtools can be c/c++, it's the libs and existing c apps that shouldn't mix
12:01.25d-lookay. I only ask because I keep running into 'great things' that could be done with a pinch of OO.
12:01.49d-loQue ``Erik with some snide "lisp rulz!!1!" comment :)
12:01.52brlcadturning a tool into a library routine would be problematic as c++ down the road if portaions are generalizable to a library, like libged
12:03.29brlcadyou can do most OO constructs in c, at least most of the ones that are not just syntax shortcuts
12:04.05d-loI was really looking at function overloading... its a pain not having it :)
12:12.52brlcadah, you can get yourself polymorphism, but you have to do a little setup
12:13.25d-lobut how much is gained by 'doing a little setup' versus just using cpp?
12:14.03brlcaddepends on the use
12:14.24brlcadit keeping it as a set of C routines that you can pull into a library is important, then might be worthwhile
12:14.34brlcadotherwise, just use c++
12:15.01d-loand the only reason why a cpp lib is bad is simply because all the others are c libs?
12:15.16brlcadnotes "cpp" is rather confusing/misleading as it's the name of the "c pre processor" that expands #includes and such
12:15.52brlcada cpp lib isn't bad
12:16.07brlcadmixing c++ into a C api is generally bad
12:17.10d-loright, so if this make building thing turns into a lib (down the road), then wiring it into libged would prove difficult if libBuilding (or whatever) is c++ ?
12:17.32brlcadthere are ABI portability issues with the libraries, linkage incompatibilities, other issues
12:17.42brlcadif it is fully contained as such, then not so bad
12:18.22brlcadit's more that you cannot expose it (at all) symbol-wise and public API
12:19.28brlcade.g., openNURBS in librt -- not exposed, just an implementation detail under the hood so linkage still doesn't expose any c++
12:19.57d-loHrm, so it it were all 'under the hood' and operated on a provided db_i only, then it would be safe?
12:20.13brlcaddoable
12:20.53brlcadbe more concerned that you've learned how to use one shiney hammer, so everything looks like it needs to be beaten with that hammer :)
12:21.28brlcadthey're different mindsets with tradeoffs on both ends, good to be proficient in both :)
12:21.36d-lohuh?  I am talking about how to best implement an idea.
12:21.44brlcadlikewise
12:21.59brlcadthe language has little to do with that
12:23.17brlcadit's more a procedural data-driven approach vs an object-oriented approach vs a functional approach, etc
12:24.05brlcadyou can take most problems and implement them with any one of those three and there are lots of tradeoffs, rare that one is superbly dominating "better"
12:24.11brlcadusually more just one is more "familiar"
12:24.35brlcadjust saying it's good to hone skills at least on the other two at some point as well
12:25.26brlcadotherwise everything starts looking like an OO problem and you miss the big picture, acquire bad habits, tend to over-architect, over-abstract, obfuscate, ... it's a balance
12:34.22*** join/#brlcad Yoshi47 (n=jan@firewall.walinga.com)
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13:21.05``Erik*readreadread*
13:22.53``Erikexposing c++ shtuff in libraries gets into issues with different name mangling (there is no standard). G++ isn't (or wasn't) even self-consistent, so a library providing c++ entry points compiled with, say, gcc 4.1 couldn't be correctly linked to with gcc 4.2, it'd get missing symbols, iirc
13:24.22``Erikheh, yes, people new to oo become "architect astronauts" and start designing things like... upstairs... :D *duck*
13:44.07d-lotee hee.
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15:22.56brlcadhowdy mafm m
15:23.50mafmhi there
16:34.11*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14D686.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:47.31*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@d142-058-080-147.wireless.sfu.ca)
17:05.46*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
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18:38.17``Erikhm, a darcs library was listed as a 'todo' back in june
18:38.18CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36174 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (makebuilding/makebuilding.c mkbuilding.h): Coninuting work on Makebuilding. Added mkbuilding.h
18:44.48*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.49.189)
19:15.33CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36175 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/pl-dm.c: vls strings use %V now instead of %S
19:34.09CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36176 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/pl-dm.c: reorder function definitions so forward declarations are not necessary.
20:02.10CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36177 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-ogl.c:
20:02.10CIA-33BRL-CAD: OK, temporarily comment out some of the dm-ogl code - this allows things to come
20:02.11CIA-33BRL-CAD: up on the Mac, but (obviously) messes with the initialization of the gl context
20:02.11CIA-33BRL-CAD: something fierce. Try to work out why these commands are upsetting things.
20:25.46CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36178 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/pl-dm.c: more cleanup, quell slew of warnings, remove unused vars.
20:39.13CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36179 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/pl-dm.c: enable the '-t o' option to open up an ogl display manager. sure enough, it crashes.
20:40.12brlcadwhat's interesting there is that there are no calls to make_current
20:42.31``Erikhum, "reverse debugging" in the new gdb
22:32.32MaloeranReverse debugging? Walking instructions backwards?
22:32.37``Erikayup
22:32.48MaloeranThat would require an awful lot of memory, and be very slow
22:33.48MaloeranI guess that works to walk a couple instructions back, but you could never get very far anyway. You can't undo system calls and such
22:33.51``Erikum, there's some lib that does it in a not totally sucky way (mebbe it saves state delta on nondeterministic ops)
22:35.36``Erikhttp://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=868769
22:35.44Maloerangnome-terminal is pretty bad as a terminal. You flood it on stdout and it freezes or dies
22:36.12``Erikyeah, it does checkpointing
22:36.17MaloeranMulti-inferior? What is that?
22:36.43``Erikgnome-terminal and kterm are ass, xterm is ok, rxvt-devel was what I really used before hopping over to mac
22:37.08``Erik"multi-inferior" sounds like some damn emacs weenie was allowed in the club, I d'no O.o :D
22:37.41MaloeranYes, I'm always using rxvt. I put Ubuntu on the laptop and I sometimes use gnome-terminal for some reason, but it's pretty bad
22:38.56``Erikscreen eliminates all the pro's that gnome-terminal and kterm have for anyone who can operate a basic text editor... :)
22:39.25``Erikand if you can't figure out "pico" or "nano", you don't belong opening a terminal emulator :D
22:40.35``Erikhttp://dmtcp.sourceforge.net/
22:40.37MaloeranThis is quite bad when doing printf() debugging, and the terminal freezes or dies. When it freezes, it also freezes the program trying to write on the stdout pipe
22:41.05MaloeranAnd when it dies... You lose all programs launching from that terminal, that's just lovely
22:41.10Maloeranlaunched*
22:41.36``ErikI don't remember the app crashing, but I do remember getting annoyed that the kernel compiles on linux took much longer on my 120mhz machine...
22:42.27MaloeranAnd it's slow, yes. Now imagine the terminal freezing or dying meaning the compilation stops trying to write on stdout
22:42.46Maloeranpunches gnome-terminal some more
22:46.04``Erikrxvt and be happy O.o
22:47.03MaloeranI know, I'm just amazed that some mainstream and common software can be so buggy, and it's just a terminal
22:47.40``Erikprobably one of those "good enough for the plebes, but all the REAL power-users know better"
22:47.43``Erik:/
22:50.00``Erik(though having written a color terminal emulator using a gtk+ text widget before, it's trivial to make it sorta work and a real pain to make it fast)
22:51.02MaloeranSeems rather easy to make it fast... but I wouldn't use gtk+ for the rendering, I would play with X directly
22:51.40``Erikscanning and handling control codes was the big stinker on mine, I think
22:52.11MaloeranYes, that part sounds rather messy
22:52.33``Erikand looking at my code, I've learned quite a few tricks in the last decade heh
22:52.49MaloeranOh, you too? :)
22:53.05MaloeranSometimes I'm almost glad I lost most of my >5 years old code
22:53.57``Erik<-- has learned quite a coding few tricks in the last 26 years, intends to learn quite a few more coding tricks in the next 26 :)
22:54.19MaloeranEven updating the old Rayforce just a month ago... I rewrote all the multithreading, threw away a bunch of pthreads stuff to use x86/amd64 atomic instructions
22:54.30MaloeranEheh
22:54.50``Erikheh, I found a simd library for sbcl last week O.O
22:55.12louipchaha I'm a power user for using rxvt?
22:55.13MaloeranPthreads still annoy me on many aspects, I'm so tempted to just use clone(), futex() and my atomic instructions
22:55.17``Erik<-- grouses some more that rayforce isn't in BRL-CAD
22:56.30MaloeranThe wake up process of pthreads, for threads blocked on condition variables doesn't allow any decent prioritization mechanism
22:56.44``Eriklouipc: more that a "power-user" wouldn't use gnome-terminal...
22:56.46MaloeranAnd the underlying futex() stuff is so much more flexible
22:56.57``Erikupside down A's and backwards E's, man
22:57.32``Erikmal: that's great until you want it to work on something other than linux, or the linux internals change (again)
22:58.21MaloeranYou can't define scheduling priorities for different threads with pthreads, seriously how retarded is that?
22:58.21``Erikthe solaris libthread.so package was effin' INSANELY awesome, but coding to it means you don't leave solaris and hope they don't jerk the rug out from under you...
22:58.52MaloeranMmhm :), I never played with it I'm afraid
22:59.27MaloeranI did some home-made threading on Linux, using the system calls, to see how flexible the underlying interface is... and that just made me more frustrated with Posix threads
22:59.58``Erikthe bsd thread mapping capability is awesome, too... ya get to choose if a thread is a userland thing, an OS 1:1 mapping, or an OS many:many mapping... without recompiling! :)
23:00.43``Erikthe linux kobj thingie was designed to do processes, then threading was bolted into it, and it was shaken around to do anything inbetween... *shrug*
23:00.54MaloeranBeing able to wake up any thread *you* choose when signaling a condition variable or releasing a mutex, how come you can't do that with Posix threads?
23:01.07``Erikwhen pthreads were new, the notion of threading was in its infancy and every vendor had tis own horrible attempt
23:01.14MaloeranOr definiting the "niceness" or scheduling priority of any thread, gez, that should be simple enough
23:01.36``Erikwhat if the OS only supports userland threads? or doesn't have the notion of process priority?
23:01.54MaloeranThen disable the feature, or make it do nothing! But at least make it *possible*!
23:02.06MaloeranYou can't have different scheduling priorities with Posix threads, you just can't
23:02.06``Eriknt4 was made posix compatible, and it only had retarded round robin scheduling iirc
23:02.38MaloeranI don't mind if some features are not available on some platforms, but at least make them available on the platforms that do support them
23:02.42louipcin unix worse is better
23:02.44louipcthat's why!
23:03.38MaloeranErik, I'm seriously very close to just switch over to my own Linux-only threading stuff, with a pthread fallback for other OSes
23:03.53``Eriksrry, dude, their crystal ball was in the shop when pthreads were spec'd, I mean, the notion that a student could write a semi-usable *nix-like os and people would help him for shits and giggles woulda gotten you laughed out of the room
23:04.23``Erikso predicting how linux does its nth generation threading... yknow..
23:05.20MaloeranErik, I'm just saying that pthreads do not expose a bunch of very fundamental features for threading. I know some OSes may not support them
23:05.40``Erikyeah, I hear ya, dude... I'm saying that pthreads predates those fundamental features :D
23:06.02MaloeranWell if they aren't going to update the library, then we need something new
23:06.20louipcyep
23:06.29MaloeranI think I'll just switch over to my Linux threading stuff, with a pthread fallback
23:08.10``Erikwould rather have cpu affinity control than priority control for threads *shrug* :)
23:08.14MaloeranHow could not imagine that someone may want to define different scheduling priorities for different threads. No, they had to enforce that *all* threads *MUST* share the same scheduling priority. Why? Why?...
23:08.33``Erikhm
23:08.44``Erikwhat if I renice a multithreaded program to 20
23:08.45MaloeranThere's cpu affinity stuff, although it's a different library
23:09.04MaloeranAll the threads share the same niceness, says the specification
23:09.05``Erikand I really fucking mean make every thread go to 20, I don't want the program to decide if it's going to listen
23:09.08``Erik?
23:09.20``Erikok, so posix does that for me, what about futex?
23:09.26MaloeranWhat if the program has some low priority and high priority threads?
23:09.55louipcwell there should be a signal for it, non?
23:10.08Maloeranfutex() is the kernel-level thing for mutexes and condition variables, but if you write your own threading stuff, you can define the scheduling of threads any way you want it
23:10.14``Eriksleep(0); forces a yield, essentually giving you a low priority thread (in a semi-cooperative fashion)
23:10.38``Erikum
23:10.49``ErikI have a book somewhere that talks about the low level threading crap
23:10.50MaloeranWhat if you have a bunch of threads and you wake to wake up a specific one, which must run right *now*?
23:10.52``Erikwonder where I put it
23:11.11MaloeranSignaling it and sleep(0) may or may not make it actually run
23:11.22``Erikmal: then your program is written really poorly :D *duck*
23:11.23louipcsounds like fun problems
23:11.42MaloeranErik, that's a very common case of feeder/consumer threads
23:12.47``Erikdoesn't remember needing to wake it up "right now" doing those things, putting them back into the run queue was sufficient O.o
23:13.50MaloeranTypical example : on a 8 cores machine, with 8 consumer threads, you predict the threads will begin to starve soon and the feeder thread must absolutely run very soon
23:14.12``Erik"add job; inc jobs available;" | "Icanhasawurkunit? tkae; dec jobs avail"
23:14.20MaloeranAnd posix threads just won't you do that, you can merely try to wake it up and sleep() a few threads in the hope that it will get to run
23:14.29``Erikheh
23:14.37Maloeranwon't let* you do that
23:15.00``Erik8 threads/procs on 8 cores tends to cause OTHER ugly problems, like resource lockstepping
23:15.27``Erik<-- likes to do 2n-1 for things that touch single interface resources like disk drives
23:15.47MaloeranThat thread prioritization problem should not exist, because it doesn't exist when you use a decent low-level threading interface ( like futex() )
23:16.22``Erik<-- more apt to think that the problem doesn't... actually... exist... :D *duck*
23:16.43MaloeranEspecially since kernels sometimes try to keep the same threads on the same core, and the kernel may have decided that your very important feeder thread must run on core 5, so it's just not going to wake up for a while
23:16.48MaloeranAnd threads end up starving
23:18.01MaloeranI don't know, it's a matter of flexibility and control... and pthreads don't give you much in both areas
23:18.50``Erik*shrug* I've never had issue cooking all 8 cores (or 256) until something using an ugly slow resource (disks, network, etc) come into play
23:19.51``Eriktake, for example, BRL-CAD's rt, it can smoke up 1024 cpu's n/p even writing to disk if it buffers right, but it uses maybe one worth in mged due to network silliness with giantlock and shtuff
23:21.07MaloeranSure sure, but I'm not tempted to assume the design is optimal, in comparison to what could be achieved with more control and flexibility
23:22.26``ErikI d'no, dude, I have a feeling that you might be wayyyy down the path of diminishing returns
23:23.01MaloeranFor one thing, atomic instructions instead of mutexes or spin locks make a huge difference
23:23.20Maloeran( Okay, it's not portable, but when you got them... )
23:23.22``Erikyeah, I can see that one easily
23:23.37``Erikfar less cycles and eliminates branches
23:24.10``Erikbut inventing a threading system to keep a producer hot? O.o
23:24.11MaloeranMore than that, you avoid the constant read and write to shared memory lines
23:24.49MaloeranIt's not just for that, I was pointing out one example but pthreads are limited on many aspects
23:25.09``Eriksure, but how much do those aspects really matter? :D just throwin' it out there
23:25.43MaloeranMeh :), you add them all up and I think it matters
23:26.13``ErikI'd be curious as to your post mortem analysis :)
23:26.19MaloeranAtomic instructions, thread scheduling from mutexes or condition variables, CPU affinity, per-thread niceness/priority, etc.
23:28.34MaloeranThe feeder thing actually was a problem in Rayforce when rendering something simple, it goes up to 100-500 frames per second and the kernel too often tries to maintain the "feeder" thread on the same CPU core instead of waking it up right now when needed
23:28.39``Erikpthread_attr_setschedparam()  ?
23:28.50MaloeranSo unless you buffer up a lot of work ahead, I mean several frames, threads can starve
23:29.13MaloeranKeep on reading to see if you can actually do anything with that
23:29.47MaloeranYou can set FIFO or round-robbing scheduling, but you can't define a thread priority for normal thread scheduling
23:31.08``Erikthat's not what the man page says O>o
23:32.52MaloeranYou should try it out, to have a nice surprise on sched_priority... It requires root to be modified!
23:33.50MaloeranAnd it doesn't work for SCHED_OTHER, which is the normal out-of-order threading
23:34.01``Eriksounds like you attempted to increase the priority... that's against the fundamental security model, only root can increase priority, users can only reduce priority (increase nice)
23:34.45MaloeranNiceness is shared by all Posix threads
23:35.02MaloeranAnd sched_priority has no effect for SCHED_OTHER scheduling
23:35.44Maloeran( While SCHED_RR and such requires root )
23:40.36``Erik*shrug*
23:42.33MaloeranAnyway... as you said, it was designed too long ago, and it needs an urgent update or rewrite
23:43.18``Erik(I'd find it amusing if you end up re-inventing fork() )
23:44.29MaloeranIt's not quite fork(), threads use the clone() system call, so does fork() of course
23:44.35louipcthat would be cool
23:44.45Maloeranclone() is a very flexible little system call
23:45.15louipcI heard it was stolen from plan9 or something
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091009

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091009

00:03.47starseeker``Erik: simd in sbcl?
00:03.57``Erikja
00:04.04``Erikhttp://common-lisp.net/project/sb-simd/
00:04.48starseekerooo
00:05.13starseekerquick - fast nurbs raytracing in sbcl with simd! :-P
00:05.33``Erikhop to it!
00:05.48starseekerstep one - re-implement openNURBS in lisp
00:05.54``Erikheh
00:05.56starseekerstep two - die of old age :-(
00:06.14``Erikisn't sure opennurbs would be worth trying to reimplement
00:06.21starseekercould live to 500 and still not write all the software he wants to...
00:07.16MaloeranI don't think you would need opennurbs for that... fortuantely
00:07.19Maloeranfortunately, too
00:08.08starseekerMaloeran: you need some fairly hairy nurbs data structures and solving routines
00:08.39starseekerwe would need at least some of those in Lisp to do it right, although perhaps not all of it for a minimalistic nurbs raytracer only
00:09.01MaloeranBut does OpenNURBS contain optimized stuff for raytracing? All that stuff probably doesn't reside in the library...
00:09.33louipcstarseeker: do you want to write it, or do you just want someone to write it? hehe
00:09.42louipcor.. it to be written
00:10.01starseekerlouipc: Nah, more of a joke - that's been the main interest I've had in SIMD lately
00:10.08``Erikwonders how opennurbs compares to twingy's old nurbana stuff, didja look at the blender source?
00:10.31starseekerlisp is where I want to build the foundations for a category theory based mathematical solving system
00:10.34louipcstarseeker: hehe I understand
00:12.03starseeker``Erik: last I heard, they still didn't have nurbana working fully
00:12.10starseekerdid something change?
00:12.41``ErikI d'no, I thought it was complete
00:15.31``Erikhuh, looks like they're still working on integrating it? (no date on this fundraising page thingy)
00:15.42starseekeryeah, I think they kinda stalled...
00:16.50starseekerhaven't see anything new this year
00:16.58starseekerhaven't been watching commits though
00:17.31starseekerah: http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-committers/2009-May/023435.html
00:18.32starseeker'course, they'll be way ahead of us on editing
00:21.40starseekerhelps to have the modern gui already in place :-P
00:42.15``ErikO.O http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1922690
00:51.50*** join/#brlcad puddingpimp (n=dave@118-93-87-238.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz)
01:29.54brlcadpuddingpimp: great name :)
01:31.18``Erik$240 worth?
01:43.42puddingpimphuh? thanks
01:50.01``Erikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpuUemDBz-8   pimpin' :D
01:50.49``Erik(was a good show)
02:26.40puddingpimpNICE
03:01.29*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
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11:26.45``Erik5 more minutes O.o
12:29.05puddingpimpuntil?
12:29.43brlcadtill puddin' time
12:30.02``ErikLCROSS impact
12:30.39``Erikwas a bit anticlimatic, but there're still a few hours before all the data is in, then it has to be gawked at for a few months before being released O.o
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15:38.12starseekergrumbles... friggin duplicate symbols...
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19:44.16``Eriknice, how to prove who is your best friend: put your dog and your spouse in the trunk of a car for an hour. Open the trunk. See which one is happy to see you.
19:45.03brlcadhaha
19:45.29brlcadthat's awesome, sounds like a line right out of family guy
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19:51.06``Erikhttp://jbo-bizarrestuff.blogspot.com/2009/06/science-will-prove-it-every-time.html
20:37.48CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36180 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-ogl.c:
20:37.48CIA-33BRL-CAD: OK, this should have occurred to me earlier. Since we CAN successfully
20:37.48CIA-33BRL-CAD: MakeCurrent AFTER the window is mapped, simply move the Tk_MapWindow command
20:37.48CIA-33BRL-CAD: BEFORE the MakeCurrent and re-enable all the goodies. Still not entirely clear
20:37.49CIA-33BRL-CAD: WHY this is important, but attach ogl now succeeds.
20:37.53starseekerkicks self up and down the hallway for stupidity
20:38.41starseekereven stranger, /dev/ogl raytracing is suddenly behaving perfectly
20:38.50starseekermaybe that's just a local thing
20:39.28starseekercan anyone else confirm?
20:49.30starseekerstill wants to try dm-togl as a warmup/exercise, but knows he can't toss togl in just for the heck of it. Hmm - maybe a branch?
20:50.58CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36181 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: Do the same thing for rtgl - move TK_MapWindow
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21:02.20starseekerok, /dev/ogl raytrace is still slow on Linux for me
21:23.59CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36182 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: update NEWS - fix 'attach ogl' on OSX
21:24.26starseeker:q
21:24.30starseekerwhoops
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23:07.31MaloeranAh, nice blog Erik... :)
23:09.14MaloeranWoah, golf has been included in the Olympics. Perhaps they'll include acrobastic skydiving and sailing around the world next
23:28.30``Erikthey should merge with braufest.
23:50.35*** join/#brlcad akafubu (n=akafubu@unaffiliated/akafubu)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091010

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091010

00:03.37*** join/#brlcad akafubu (n=akafubu@unaffiliated/akafubu)
00:03.47*** join/#brlcad puddingpimp (n=dave@118-93-87-238.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz)
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01:10.14brlcadstarseeker: heh, so moving mapping up did work .. figured it might
01:10.24brlcadstupid bug
01:10.57brlcadI'd chaulk that one up to "a work-around" for an Xorg X11 initialization bug
01:11.35brlcadeither that or it's also a bug in tk8.5's ordering of X initialization, but less likely
01:13.02brlcadstarseeker: branch would be perfect for togl testing
01:13.28brlcadthe new tk-dm would be a good starting point even as it sets up a tk window and uses a tk canvas for drawing
02:40.17``Erikhm, *logs into corporate email sersver and does a s/Regards/Retards/ to see what happens*
02:49.02MaloeranAhah
02:49.09Maloeran:) That actually made me laugh
03:49.41Ralithhehe
03:49.46Ralithsaw that one on reddit.
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06:08.48*** join/#brlcad brlcad (n=sean@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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17:04.15*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@157.26.202.84.customer.cdi.no)
18:25.54``Erikheh, pigs defeating rfid, that's awesome
20:13.39*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=Here@69.140.109.104)
21:14.03``Erikhttp://www.boingboing.net/2009/10/09/c-graffiti.html
21:32.36*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.49.189)
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23:21.16``Eriknice http://6.media.collegehumor.com/collegehumor/ch6/7/3/collegehumor.40221387358731fdf25c18632d84ef2d.jpg
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091011

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091011

00:23.10``Erikhah, googlebomb O.o "what a" in the google search box and see what the dropdown comes up with :D
00:23.21``Erik"what ar", srry
00:30.34``Erikdamnit
00:52.15brlcadheh, strawberries
00:54.58``Erik(seems it was a book a while back)
00:56.10brlcadthe top hit is the most important one regardless
02:12.22Ralith``Erik: ahahaha
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02:17.06*** part/#brlcad bturner_ (n=chatzill@pool-70-17-245-198.balt.east.verizon.net)
05:04.27*** join/#brlcad KingofCSU (n=king@222.247.95.136)
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09:19.05*** join/#brlcad roberthl (n=robert@rhl.me.uk)
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15:31.18``Erikshould hire a damn maid
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17:39.56*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=Matthew@bas2-toronto21-1242310069.dsl.bell.ca)
18:16.53``ErikI'm so badass, when I clean the kitchen, it involves dicking with the circuit breaker and busting out the shopvac O.O
18:45.26``Erikwow, my neighbor has a brilliant dog. It's barking at it's own echo.
18:48.43_sushi_I a gree.
18:49.12_sushi_``Erik: from the frequency of the barks you can calculate how far the reflective object is :)
18:49.24_sushi_it's like a radar
18:53.28``Erikyes, you can
18:53.38``Erikbut since it keeps doing it, I'm using it to calculate the stupid of the dog.
18:53.39``Erikit's high.
18:53.40``Erik:D
18:54.05``Erik(I know exactly what it's reflecting off of, the 3 story building across the way)
19:17.00_sushi_``Erik: stupidity=1/IQ ?
19:23.19MaloeranThat doesn't turn out to be a very convenient scale, perhaps 10000.0/IQ, to keep the 100.0 median?
19:34.47``Eriknot sure what the exact formula is, but that dog has it :)
19:59.56*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=Matthew@bas2-toronto21-1242310069.dsl.bell.ca)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091012

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091012

00:34.13*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-185-57.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
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04:40.20*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedyII (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
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13:30.52*** join/#brlcad archivist_emc (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
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18:44.39``Erikah
20:08.08starseekeryay!
20:08.14starseekerhas internet back again
20:08.17starseeker(finally)
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23:52.40``Erik"she told me we couldn't afford beer anymore and that I would have to quit. Then I caught her spending $65 on makeup. I asked her why I had to give up stuff and she didn't. She said she needed the makeup to look pretty for me. I told her that's what the beer is for. I don't think she's coming back."
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091013

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091013

00:01.40*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
00:05.46Ralithheh
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04:04.33starseekeris fried, but the cedar closet is (essentially) done
04:05.22starseekerand the gentoo box goes through (yet another) tramatic update, successfully.
04:05.36starseekerThere seem to be a lot of backwards incompatible changes lately
04:05.46starseekerprobably for the best, but eeek
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07:46.03Ralithstarseeker: this is why I stopped using gentoo.
07:46.31Ralith"okay, routine system up—OH GOD WHERE'S MY X"
09:27.22MaloeranPretty much. With Gentoo, it's best to upgrade only what you strictly need... and hope for the best
11:06.17d-lomernin!
11:06.51archivistwith gentoo upgrade to a sane distro asap
11:11.28``Erik*yawn*
11:12.22``Erikis glad he uses fbsd, updates are neither traumatic nor unsafe O.O
11:13.40``Erikthere was this one time, in band camp, when I did a massive upgrade on an ancient system and it was a bastard stopgap patch (still is), so several ports failed, but portmanager gives you pre-upgrade pkg's, so it was trivial to undo the mucked up parts of the upgrade... definitely a corner case situation, though :D
11:14.21``Erik(I mean, seriously, who in their right mind would still be running 5.2.1? it was so... screwed up that they changed their numbering system just for that one release)
11:15.43archivistmy old debian screwed up on an update, about 5 years ago, its still up though
11:16.58``Erik:D stable or testing?
11:17.24``ErikI had some interesting experiences with unstable, and stable was just too out of date, I used testing for a lot of my debian boxes back in the day
11:18.10archivistcant remember but uname responds with 2.4.27-2-686-smp #1 SMP Mon May 16 16:55:31 JST 2005 i686 GNU/Linux
11:18.39``Erikshould be an /etc/debian file
11:18.43``Erikiirc
11:19.00``Erikor look at your apt config file :)
11:19.21archivist3.1
11:19.56``Erikaccording to this chart, it's "sarge"
11:20.21``Erik6 june 2005, support ended april 2008
11:22.22archivistthese old boxes run and run
11:23.05archivistit is on its last month or so
11:29.16archivistthis job has ended and I have to move the servers home
12:01.29Yoshi4745812:11 mged
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12:27.59``Erikput a bullet in its head, yoshi, it probably put itself in an infinite loop (or went into the "it'll finish.. in a few thousand years" mode)
12:44.43brlcadblames the ISP
12:51.29``Erikeh?
12:51.47``Erik(looks like everyone using bz got peered)
12:53.32_clock_who has worked on PDP-1?
13:21.17CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36183 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/AttrGroupsDisplayUtility.tcl: Added methods for reading/writing attribute groups and mappings. Added a method to export to png.
13:42.30brlcad``Erik: bz rebooted unexpectedly
13:45.28brlcad_clock_: pdp wasn't interesting until pdp-8, and even then pdp-11 was where it was at
13:48.02Yoshi47``Erik, do i have too? can't i wait till my pc turns off or restarts? lol
13:51.35brlcad:)
13:51.40``Erikpdp7 had some niftiness iirc
13:51.43Maloeran45812 minutes? Isn't that like... a month?
13:51.59``Erik(wasn't the pdp8 just a souped up 7? or was that the big abi break?)
13:52.03Yoshi47yep
13:52.20``Eriklisp on a pdp1 was awesome, simh ftw
13:52.29MaloeranA month. You are being optimistic, I see... :)
13:53.06Yoshi47nope just don't have time to work on it anyways
13:53.18Yoshi47so just like to see it will finish or not
13:53.53``Erikif it doesn't finish in a day or two, it probably won't finish in your lifetime :(
13:53.56MaloeranI guess it's only using 100% of one CPU core, so it isn't that bad
13:54.02Yoshi47yep
13:54.34Yoshi47ok well when i need my other core or the power goes out or some idiot comes by and does something then iguess that will be the end
13:54.59brlcadit's an O(n^3) algorithm .. and that's a pretty big 'n' it's crunching on
13:55.00Maloeranwonders if there are ways to randomly query the EIP of a running program, to have a clue what it's doing
13:55.20brlcadso it will probably finish .. just unclear if it's days/weeks/months/years
13:55.53``Erikmillenia
13:55.58brlcad(and single-cpu, so it's not exactly burning the midnight oil)
13:57.11``Eriklet's see, we're in the cenozoic era, what comes next? :D
14:26.13brlcadthe "flying spaghetti monster hath forsaken us" era
14:34.43``Erikwell
14:34.51``Erikthat's the biblical name, the age of truth
14:34.55``Erik:)
14:49.09``Erikhey, uh, starseeker?
14:49.49``Eriky'know that old mkVIII or whatever you were putzing with? was survice involved in that?
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15:31.28CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36184 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Tweak the attr method.
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15:41.45starseekermutter... dead terminal...
15:43.57CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36185 10/brlcad/branches/dmtogl-branch/: Create branch to have a place to experiment with togl
15:57.53``Erikheh
15:58.06``Erikstarseeker, was survice involved in anything related to the mk8?
16:00.19starseeker``Erik: I don't believe so
16:00.23``Erikhuh
16:00.31starseekerthe mk iv yess
16:00.36``Erikahhh
16:01.01``Erikone of the old ww1 tanks is on their homepage ticker, in what looks like a point datacloud
16:01.04``Erikwas curious seeing that
16:01.13``Erik(also saw an old rayfarce screenie there)
16:01.36starseekeroh, the gold one - yes that's a Mark IV
16:01.44starseekerpoint cloud
16:06.10``Erikah, 'k
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16:06.31starseekeror actually, that's probaby the mesh created from the point cloud...
16:06.41``Erikyeh, all their stuff tries to build meshe
16:06.43``Erikmeshes
16:06.51``Eriksimple local hulling I think
16:07.11``Erikfun toys over in the warehouse, though
16:07.28``Erik<-- got a tour just after their mini-range went live
16:10.48``Erikoh fucking son of a fucking bitch
16:11.01``Erikforgot about osX's case idioticity with the fs
16:44.45CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36186 10/brlcad/branches/dmtogl-branch/ (55 files in 6 dirs): First code working toward togl integration into BRL-CAD build.
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17:27.02brlcadhello parigaudi
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17:29.03brlcadyou all shouldn't talk about Ralith like that when he's not here
17:29.07brlcadoh hi Ralith
17:53.54brlcad~16*140
17:53.55ibot2240
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18:47.44``Erikcally speaking
18:52.28RalithI hear you guys bin talkin bout me behind my back >:|
19:01.34``Erikwell
19:01.49``Erikif you weren't spending all your time off in the distance buried in a sheep...
19:14.25CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36187 10/brlcad/branches/dmtogl-branch/src/other/togl/Makefile.in: Let's see if this makes togl build out of dir...
19:23.47starseekerah, good
19:34.33starseekerbrlcad: OK, just to organize my thinking - the goal is for there to be no direct access to ged struct components in the ged code, correct?
19:41.42starseekerand in this vein, the struct bu_vls ged_result_str currently in struct ged should be replaced with something that supports an API of the form GED_APPEND_RESULT(struct bu_vls) and GED_NEXT_RESULT(struct ged_results)?  (probably a bu_list, but that should be hidden as an implementation detail?)
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21:03.19brlcadstarseeker: yes, unequivocally
21:03.50brlcad"struct ged" is a black box, only accessed through api routines/macros
21:04.27brlcadGED_NEXT_RESULT doesn't make much sense
21:04.34brlcadyou can just keep appending results
21:05.12brlcador is that for accessing results?
21:06.50brlcadwould avoid introducing new structures as that defeats much of the goal of making the API as simple as possible
21:08.23brlcadtypedef'd enums are probably okay if there are lists of types/codes, but not containers outside of something simple like a bu_list, or an iterator accessor pattern where you provide a callback that is called per item ala db_walk_tree()
21:57.00``Erikstruct GED_HERE_BE_DRAGONS
21:59.09``Erik(once you truely understand it, I will apogogize to your gf.)
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22:28.20starseekerbrlcad: yeah, APPEND to add results and NEXT to iterate over the list/array of results
22:31.08starseekerbut those were just made up on the spur of the moment
22:31.59starseekerdoesn't want to dive into rewiring libged and then find out he did it the wrong way...
22:36.08starseekeris liking bu_lists of bu_vls full pathnames for results, but I must confess a pro/con analysis of that vs. iterator/accessor is probably in order...
22:36.37starseekeralso, where do you envision enums being helpful?  (I'm not implying they're not - I'm sure they are - but I'm not following)
23:33.55MaloeranGez. So which one of you designed that thing? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8302903.stm
23:33.59Maloeran:)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091014

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091014

00:00.40starseekercan't wait for the animal rights guys to hop onto this one...
00:04.15puddingpimpI wonder if animal rights guys give two shits about insects
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01:39.34louipcprobably but it's low on the priority list
01:47.52puddingpimpI mean, I've never heard of the SPCA bringing suit against anyone for burning ants for example
01:49.27louipcvegans don't eat honey because it's cruel to the bees though.
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02:47.22brlcadstarseeker: the api could certainly provide both -- an iterator that returns strings that were appended and a visitor callback
02:48.17brlcadreturning a raw bu_list of bu_vls isn't exactly ideal as it does beg for some sort of container struct to make a list out of
02:48.28brlcadunder the hood, sure, just not exposed via API
02:48.35brlcadvisitor and/or iterator ftw
02:49.48brlcadi ran across several instances where it looked like there should be a typedef'd enum .. almost any time you have a "set" of #defines that logically group together, that generally begs for it
02:51.29brlcade.g. the ged func return codes, the edit "modes" (which are questionably part of public api), action codes on various calls (like quiet/noisy lookups, soft/hard errors, verbosity levels, etc)
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04:36.20starseekerbrlcad: yeah, I figured raw bu_list/bu_vls wasn't ideal, but you had mentioned wanting to avoid introducing new structures
05:04.55starseekerglares at togl
05:07.00starseekerhmm, I like this quote:  "Questions about whether design is necessary or affordable are quite beside the
05:07.03starseekerpoint: design is inevitable. The alternative to good design is bad design, not
05:07.05starseekerno design at all."
05:12.25starseekeror better yet:  If you can't afford to do something right, then be darn sure you can afford to do it wrong.
08:54.53brlcadto return a bu_list/bu_vls would involve a new structure
08:55.11brlcadcan do that under the hood, just not the api
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11:10.01brlcadthat's why you either provide a visitor pattern (where the visitor func merely iterates over the bu_list and calls the callback) ... or you implement an iterator like strsep() or BU_LIST_NEXT()
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12:59.32d-lomernin all
13:13.46``Erikyargh
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14:00.13d-lowhats new ``Erik
14:00.15d-lo?
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15:48.13starseekerwonders what GED_VMIN is for, and why it's defined as -2048...
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16:02.24brlcadstarseeker: OOOOld baggage
16:02.45brlcadmged's display managers have a vector space mapping of -2048 to +2047
16:03.07starseekerah
16:03.37starseekerwonders if that should be mentioned in the comments around those defines...
16:03.39brlcadused for things like plotting, object selections, etc
16:03.52brlcadit's assumed in LOTS of places
16:04.00brlcadreally bad
16:04.07starseekereeek
16:04.57brlcadjust search on 2048 in src/libdm and src/mged .. those should all be dynamic but aren't
16:05.49brlcadGED_VMIN probably just shouldn't even exist
16:05.55brlcadI see no reason for that to be public api
16:06.18brlcada lot that is in ged.h doesn't belong there, belongs in private implementation header
16:07.51MaloeranGah, that sounds very bad, a hard-coded limit assumed everywhere in the code?
16:08.14MaloeranAlthough I'm not entirely sure what that "vector space mapping" is used for
16:08.57brlcadit's not a core piece of code, it's for plotting the wireframes and conversion to plot/postscript formats
16:09.34MaloeranAh I see. That really should have been made more flexible...
16:09.35brlcadthey're integer indexed formats, so it bounds the range as 4k x 4k
16:10.17starseekerwinces - plotting the wireframes is currently how we view all the models...
16:10.40starseekermaybe not core but still...
16:10.53brlcadstarseeker: it's more a code maintenance problem when 4k x 4k displays become common
16:11.06brlcadhave to weed out those instances
16:11.12starseekernods
16:11.24starseekerwould looove to see pixel densities get that high :-)
16:11.25brlcadi mean it's not like it's "everywhere", just in a couple dozen places
16:12.58brlcadrewriting it all to be dynamic wouldn't be too difficult, it just shouldn't be compile-time limited (or if it must, might as well use max-representation)
16:28.10starseekerbrlcad: does view_obj make sense in libged?
16:28.46brlcadyay, svn checkout on solaris
16:28.51brlcadstarseeker: nope
16:29.14starseekercool, solaris build here we come :-)
16:29.16brlcadnone of the old "objects" should remain, too wired to tcl
16:29.30brlcaddm_obj, dg_obj, view_obj
16:29.52brlcader, wdb_obj, not dm_obj
16:30.15brlcadthey were part of the "move it to get it done, i'll fix it later" claim..
16:30.37starseekeractually, I don't think his struct view_obj in libged references tcl - I was just thinking since it seems to manage GUI view state rather than geometry as such, it might make more sense elsewhere...
16:31.33brlcadthe struct might not, but all of the vo_* callbacks do
16:32.41brlcadview_obj.c should get broken up into 37 command files
16:32.45brlcad(at a glance)
16:33.40starseekerchecks... oooo, yeah you're right
16:33.42starseekerTcl everywhere
16:33.57brlcadby definition :)
16:34.01brlcadthe "obj" is a Tcl object
16:34.42starseekeryech
16:34.53starseekerthat'll be fun
16:34.59brlcadin theory, it becomes a "view" parent command (view aet, view rot, etc) but still needs tcl decoupled
16:35.52brlcadyou can tell just from an ls that the obj commands comprise about 150 commands that need to be refactored
16:35.54starseekerstill want individual files for the "subcommands"?
16:36.34brlcaddepends how complicated, but in the general case of "view", yes
16:37.06brlcadthat separation goes *way* back, about 15 years iirc
16:37.59brlcadto group commands based on whether they modify the 3d view, modify geometry, or modify the display
16:38.29brlcadproblem is most commands modify multiples/all of those, or at least they could
16:39.24brlcadI'd rather see an aet.c that is utilized by a parent view.c, have that aet.c specify (via libged private actions/flags) that the view/geometry/display is modified
16:39.27starseekermm.  So prefixing with a parent command would allow us to  remove the ambiguity, at the expense of more verbose commands?
16:39.58brlcadprefixing with a parent?
16:40.14starseeker"view ae" as opposed to "ae"
16:40.17brlcadno different than it is now, just code organization and what has access to what data
16:40.27brlcadthat's how it is now, you can do both
16:40.54brlcadthough 'view aet' to be precise
16:41.20starseekerright, but if we're planning stateless editing of geometry, just "ae" becomes ambiguous - do you mean the current geometry, the view, ...
16:41.58brlcadright
16:42.17starseekerso do we deprecate the plain "ae" or just have it default to view?
16:42.34brlcadit'd either disapper (unlikely) or just default to what is most intuitive
16:42.51starseekernods
16:42.52brlcaddefault to view would be my expectation in that case
16:45.36brlcadautoview is a good example, it's characterized as a drawable geometry (dg) object command
16:45.44brlcadat least a good example of how the categorization fails
16:46.19brlcadit only modifies the view, but can't be a view command because it needs access to the drawn geometry in order to figure out the new view size
16:46.43brlcadit's also one of the few already refactored iirc
16:46.58brlcadso it's in dg still and outside, so can compare
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17:12.02brlcadlunch!
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20:02.19brlcadwoot, the tcl folks reviewed our command length extender patch
20:02.35brlcadlooks like it'll be applied with a slight mod
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21:29.05starseekerhmmm:  http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2009/10/02/introducing-new-port-of-qt-to-your-favourite-platform/
21:35.42MaloeranHey Erik, will you be staying at home tomorrow as well? Looks like I'll have a day off tomorrow
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23:44.17starseekerbrlcad: continuing the "dumb questions about libged" trend, how should private and public structures be decided in terms of what goes in ged.h?  In C, won't we have to have any structure used inside struct ged also be public?  (In the case, say, of a hypothetical ged_result structure used in struct ged?)
23:54.34brlcadstarseeker: there are no dumb questions, a lot of our existing maintainence issues are because people didn't ask questions
23:55.22starseekerheh - OK, make it "things I should probably be able to figure out for myself by this stage" :-P
23:58.06starseekerhas come a ways with C/C++, but there's so much more to learn...
23:58.41brlcad:)
23:59.08brlcadyou can spend a decade learning and still learn new things
23:59.26brlcadat which point you'll forget things you learned, relearn them, learn something new, repeat, etc :)
23:59.40starseekerhehe
23:59.53brlcadthe structs will have to be declared, at least their type -- whether it matters if it's an incomplete type depends on use
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091015

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091015

00:00.27brlcadthe accessors will definitely need to know the type completely, but they are by design all private
00:00.50starseekerthey're defined with the EXPORT stuff?
00:00.58brlcadit's okay if the struct itself ends up being publicly declared -- you just leave a comment saying "don't access this directly"
00:01.08brlcadthe EXPORT stuff is just windows foo
00:01.19starseekerah, BU_EXTERN then?
00:01.24brlcadsame thing
00:01.38starseekerraises eyebrow
00:01.47starseekerah, I hadn't realized that
00:01.58brlcadthat's just a wrapper for windows and for supporting older k&r compilers
00:02.18brlcadpre ansi-C, you would declare functions just by name, no arguments
00:02.40starseekerOh, OK.  (yech)
00:02.45brlcade.g., extern void *malloc();
00:03.08starseekerthat must have made for some entertaining debugging
00:03.58brlcadhaving the params just gives it more things it can test for when looking for type mismatches, can abort earlier during compilation
00:04.21brlcaddid you ever get to writing any regex code?
00:04.44starseekererm.  A little during the search work perhaps
00:05.21brlcadwell if you recall, struct regex aka regex_t is a lot like how I see our struct ged
00:05.33starseekerOK :-)
00:05.40starseekerpulls up the regex header...
00:05.57brlcadyou pass it into regcomp() and regexec() pretty much without any care in the world
00:06.39starseekerchuckles - looks like regex could use some enum work :-P
00:09.09starseekereyes ged.h and decides to start transcribing it into a new ged.h, attempting things like enum defs and de-Tclifying as he goes, then make the C code match the header...
00:09.56brlcadhm, wouldn't mix de-tcling at the same time..
00:10.02brlcadthat can cascade changes
00:10.45brlcadeach type/signature change is probably a good commit-state in itself
00:11.13starseekerah.  OK, I was pondering a branch to do the testing in
00:11.58brlcadfwiw, enums vs defs isn't nearly as an important issue as, say, getting rid of tcl and having clear private/public separation
00:12.09brlcadbranch?  what's risky?
00:12.33starseekermucking with the headers and ged structs and proceeding to break everything using libged ;-)
00:12.54starseeker<insert bull in china shop metaphor here>
00:13.16brlcadthat's not very risky -- that'll break compilation up front for most changes if you do something wrong
00:13.22brlcadand all the more reason to go at it incremental
00:13.40starseekerOK, so subtle breakage is less likely?
00:13.49brlcadyeah, not very
00:13.59starseekerright :-)
00:14.40brlcadyeah, I can't even think of something subtle that could happen that won't get caught during compilation so long as you're not forcing casts
00:14.51starseekerwould LOVE to start by converting the results string to something more useful for search exec, but knows that's going to be a LOT of code to change...
00:15.09brlcadso focus on just that though
00:15.31brlcadseparate the private/public so you can have a place to make the private accessor func for the resulst string
00:15.48brlcadupdate the code to use the new accessor
00:16.21starseekerthere is a ged_private.h - is that where such things should go?
00:16.34brlcadupdate the accessor implementation to store in a list container instead of a string under the hood
00:16.50brlcadthen add an iterator for results, all done ;)
00:17.46brlcadyeah, ged_private.h is a start .. could use some cleanup but it's got a lot of the existing private funcs
00:18.15starseekerbrlcad: is there an example of a private accessor function I can use for a template?  (maybe some of libbu's stuff?)
00:18.25brlcadthere really needs to be a common naming convention to separate public from private -- they can't all be ged_* prefixed
00:18.33starseekerah
00:18.46brlcadright now, they're all ged_ GED_ etc..
00:18.59starseekerso, should ged_init (called by GED_INIT) be private?
00:19.11starseeker(for example)
00:19.31brlcadged_open_dbip() sounds like a pretty private func
00:22.47brlcadnot sure it's a good "example", it's more just thinking about whether a function is something an external developer would code to directly when using libged as a library, like libpng
00:23.33brlcadin that vein, even our "testing" macros that are used extensively in our implementation, like GED_CHECK_DATABASE_OPEN() become questionable
00:23.52brlcadshould that be exposed?  maybe, maybe not
00:24.00starseekerOK.  Do I take it correctly that functions called in #define GED_**** macros do need to be public?
00:24.33brlcadinclination would be to just expose the primary command ged_*() functions for starters, then see what's actually needed/used by mged .. and if it's something that shouldn't be migrated to libged, then it's something that needs to be public
00:24.44starseekerOh, so the question is whether GED_CHECK_DATABASE_OPEN would ever be needed outside of libged itself
00:24.48brlcadno, not necessary
00:24.55brlcadright
00:25.29brlcadno to the macros, right to whether it needs to be used outside libged :)
00:25.43starseekerso first step is to rename according to private convention the stuff already in ged_private, and then start migrating things to it as it appears they are used only in libged
00:26.00brlcadyeah, sure
00:26.25starseekeris the naming convention for structs as well as functions, or just functions?
00:26.38brlcadwhat do you mean?
00:27.07starseekerwell, there's a struct in ged_private.h named ged_id_names - should that be _ged_id_names instead since it's private?
00:27.52brlcadif the convention for private names is to prefix _ged_ then sure :)
00:28.03brlcadshould be consistent
00:28.37starseekernods. Is there a de-facto standard in BRL-CAD or C generally?
00:28.37brlcadged_ and GED_ are public, so if it's not public.. they obviously shouldn't use that
00:28.44starseekerright
00:28.53brlcadcould be as simple as _ged_ and _GED_ if it's private, not sure if that's good enough or not without more thought
00:29.12Raliththat is the de-facto standard, is it not?
00:29.35starseekerwill start there - search/replace will fix it later if need be :-P
00:30.04starseekerRalith: meh - no response to the Qt-in-Ogre posting in the Ogre forums
00:30.21starseekerapparently we're still up with the state of the art ;-)
00:31.13Ralithstarseeker: that's rather dissapointing.
00:31.24Ralithwe should replace it with a real Ogre or Qt rendering backend at some point, anyway.
00:31.52starseekerRalith: did you see the link I posted?  Not sure if Qt embedded relates to what we need, but interesting none the lest
00:31.59starseekerless even
00:32.12Ralithdon't think I did
00:32.48starseekerhttp://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2009/10/02/introducing-new-port-of-qt-to-your-favourite-platform/
00:32.51brlcadunderscore is as close as anything to "common convention" -- the problem is the C preprocessor and names in caps as it technically claims a set for compiler mangling iirc
00:33.44starseekerbrlcad: erm.  ~ged and ~GED ?
00:35.01brlcadheh, invalid
00:35.09brlcadgo with _ged_ that should be fine
00:35.27brlcadmatches the little bit of consistency with libbu and friends
00:35.37starseekerk.  what about all caps - P_GED maybe?
00:35.59brlcadcase is already conventioned
00:36.34starseeker?  there are all capital defines in both ged.h and ged_private.h
00:36.34brlcad_ged_lowercase_private_function() and _GED_PRIVATE_MACRO_OR_DEFINE
00:36.39starseekerOh
00:36.50starseekerthat won't break the preprocessor?
00:37.18brlcadthere are some bastard hybrids from the *_obj funcs that should die, mixed underscore camelCasers..
00:37.28brlcadno, it doesn't break it
00:38.12Ralithbrlcad: the ones reserved by the C standard are __foo only, I believe
00:38.35starseekerstarts on ged_private.h
00:38.36brlcadit just means that they might use the same name .. which is so highly unlikely regardless
00:38.46RalithI think _foo is actually reserved, or at least recommended, for private use within programs, conveniently.
00:40.40Ralithstarseeker: ooh: "Let’s look at the “minimal” backend, which is a complete example showing how to use a QImage as a display device:"
00:40.49Raliththis could be useful.
00:41.15Ralithin fact this could make a real Qt-in-Ogre solution pretty easy to do
00:42.20Ralithneeds to study up on how the relevant type of texture overlay is done in Ogre
00:47.13brlcadhere's the relevant section, from the standard regarding names in the global namespace: "Each name that contains a double underscore __ or begins with an underscore followed by an uppercase letter (2.11) is reserved to the implementation for any use."
00:47.58starseekerOK, so if we end up conflicting on the caps cases we're in the wrong and need to rename
00:48.16brlcadbasically
00:49.27brlcadgiven those are actually preprocessor defines, even arguable that they're not in the global namespace
01:04.55Raliththe spec is probably clear on whether that's not the case somewhere.
01:05.01Ralithdefinition of namespace perhaps?
01:08.48brlcadyeah, I'm just not that worried to read it all up in detail .. and given there is a separate section on macro name restrictions, more an indication that we're taking a gamble like everyone else
01:09.37brlcadthat other clause was actually in any namespace -- all names
01:10.19brlcadthe global namespace restriction is even more broad, "Each  name  that begins with an underscore is reserved to the implementation for use as a name in the global namespace."
02:10.42CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36188 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (62 files): Start converting private ged structures, defines and functions to using an underscore prefix. Done through _ged_getspace.
02:10.57starseekerbrlcad: how would a public macro make use of a private function without including the private header?  Doesn't the preprocessor expand out the code of the macro everywhere it is used (and thus any code that uses it will need to know about functions it uses?)
02:27.20brlcadit wouldn't
02:28.27brlcadit's either a private macro or should be a function instead
02:31.34brlcadhaven't seen a compelling reason why the various existing macros are macros and not functions other than it was conceived they'd just be very short functions (in which case they could have just been inline functions instead)
02:32.20brlcadthey were also merely the start at capturing code patterns internal to the ged func implementations
02:54.26``Erikboogies to duke spirit
03:52.07CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36189 10/brlcad/branches/dmtogl-branch/src/other/togl/Makefile.in: Meh. togl_ws.h gets generated in the build directory not the source directory - handle it differently.
03:54.52brlcadshakes fist at configuring the second IP address
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15:34.55CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36190 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp:
15:34.55CIA-33BRL-CAD: added code to make sure UV pullback solver keeps within
15:34.55CIA-33BRL-CAD: current node bounding UV
15:38.00CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36191 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_brep.cpp:
15:38.00CIA-33BRL-CAD: changed trim error tolerance to be relative to UV size not trim point
15:38.00CIA-33BRL-CAD: distance
16:33.01CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36192 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Cleaned up some memory freeing calls reported by valgrind
17:23.20CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36193 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ (358 files in 2 dirs): Commit initial upload of Keith's step-g code. Makefile.am is updated, but still some issues so disable it in src/other/Makefile.am for the time being.
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17:55.41CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36194 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (blast.c clip.c erase.c loadview.c open.c preview.c zap.c): Revert function names for _ged_zap and _ged_clip.
18:09.32CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36195 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-ogl.c: Get rid of a call to bu_log.
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19:12.03CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36196 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (9 files): Rename a few more things in ged_private, remove clip and vclip as they're public - still a ways to go.
19:57.56brlcadanytime the function is not the basic gedp/argc/argv signature, the header should probably document why it's a public function
19:58.19brlcadand it's a candidate to get refactored, scrutinized as to why/if it needs to be public
19:59.09brlcadas it's more likely maldesigned
20:00.12starseekernods - I'm just hitting ged_private in a general sweep right now - once that is done can get more thoughtful
20:00.54starseekerprobably want to involve Bob in those discussions
20:11.54CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36197 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/Makefile.am:
20:11.54CIA-33BRL-CAD: Added fedex_src and fedex_hdrs directly to build, currently builds from
20:11.54CIA-33BRL-CAD: a static copy of the SCL sources.
20:17.43CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36198 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (27 files): More ged_private renaming.
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20:29.32starseekerhey Ben
20:30.01pooliohowdy starseeker
20:30.07pooliohow goes the brep?
20:30.12starseekerwell, actually
20:30.22starseekeryou've probably seen the progress?
20:31.18poolioactually no, I've been insanely busy with midterms. do you have pretty pictures?
20:31.50starseekernot to hand, but try running the proc-db csgbrep and raytracing the results :-)
20:32.48poolioooo, I'll try it in an hour or so once I'm done recompiling :)
20:33.36starseekermore work to do for full robustness, but pretty good progress
20:35.01pooliosweet!
20:48.51poolioah shoot, I was going back through the versions of the brep files, and I managed to not commit a ton of code >_<
21:06.04starseeker?
21:06.14starseekerpoolio: you mean there was duplicated effort?
21:10.05starseekerauuugh...
21:13.47CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36199 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (42 files): OK, the remainder of ged_private is now prefixed.
22:11.18starseekerarrrrgh -  ../../../../brlcad/src/conv/step/RepresentationItem.h:45: error: 'SCLP23' has not been declared
22:32.25brlcadpoolio: some shots of the raytracing in action here: http://brlcad.org/tmp/nurbs2brep/
22:32.36brlcadsome before and after images of the wireframe and render
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091016

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091016

00:31.41starseekerOK, step-g compiles (so far) on Linux but not on the Mac
00:46.48*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@oh-69-69-33-40.sta.embarqhsd.net)
00:51.19starseekergrowl.  ged_private doesn't seem to be so private
00:51.26``Erikheh
00:53.26``ErikI'm a bit confused by http://s3.amazonaws.com/readers/2008/10/12/82294cookiemonsterslayer_1.jpg
00:53.39``Erikshould I be... scared? or aroused? O.o
00:54.01starseekeris just plain disturbed
01:05.23MaloeranAhah
01:18.11starseekerman, committing today is like pulling teeth
01:18.46CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36200 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (29 files): Grumble... ged_private.h duplicates some stuff in ged.h, clear it out of private and revert the _ged notation for those instances.
01:24.17starseekerok, this time everything built cleanly
01:31.07starseekerwonders if the logging slot, rather than the results slot, should be used for returning Usage statements...
01:34.36``Erikhm.
01:42.24CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36201 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (Makefile.am ged_private.h ged_util.c): add a file to use while trying out ideas for libged results manipulation.
01:43.19starseekeralrightie.
01:43.22starseekerheads home
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02:15.28brlcadstruct ged should nearly always be the first parameter for consistency
02:15.46brlcadit's the working set that subsequent params apply/relate to
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02:39.41CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36202 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (ged_private.h ged_util.c): Switch order of paramters - struct ged comes first.
02:46.14brlcad~starseeker++
03:04.42starseekerjust for that? ;-)
03:05.24starseekeroh whoops, I missed the mged one about returning 1/0 didn't I
03:06.31starseekershould fix that, but would reallllly like to try step-g on gentoo... hmm...
03:06.41starseekeroh yeah, that sleep thing too...
03:11.08starseekercan't remember which dm thing he messed up... hmm...
03:20.08starseekeroh yeah, f_dm
03:20.25starseekermakes note to rewire - may take a bit of doing
03:21.57starseekeror rather, some alert coding :-P
04:06.32starseekerstep-g compiles on Gentoo
04:14.35starseekerhmm - parses and segfaults
04:23.14starseekerinteresting
04:25.20starseekerheh - shucks.  openbook part d almost worked
04:33.58starseekeranybody have a login to this website?  http://www.3dcontentcentral.com/
04:34.14starseekerlooks like it might be a good source for test cases
04:34.32starseekerwants a lot of personal info to register though
04:57.57Ralithany reason not to just fuzz it out?
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15:45.16CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03louipc * r36203 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/archlinux/brlcad.install: archlinux: Remove magic lines at the end of brlcad.install
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18:50.52CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36204 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/ (archer/ArcherCore.tcl lib/Command.tcl): Mods to have the clear command in ArcherCore/Archer clear the text window instead of the screen.
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23:48.18MaloeranNeat, UPS's shipping garantees don't apply when a package is lost or delayed for cause of "acts of God"
23:48.51MaloeranI would like to see that defense in court, that "god" prevented the package from arriving, or just destroyed it
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091017

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091017

00:00.22RalithMaloeran: I think that's probably a metaphor for "don't come asking for compensation if a hurricane eats our distribution center."
00:09.08MaloeranI like the thought of them trying to prove that the hurricane was god's doing though
00:09.22MaloeranPlus they do mention natural disasters separately
00:10.09Ralithperhaps the breakout of nuclear warfare?
00:10.53MaloeranThat would be god's fault too? :)
00:10.57MaloeranAh, old good humans
01:30.08``Erikthere's a large list of "acts of god" in the US that allow insurnace cop-outs
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14:56.29*** join/#brlcad Utopiah (n=libre@rps7452.ovh.net)
14:56.40Utopiahhi #brlcad
14:57.07Utopiahso I discussed few days ago with a friend about plans for a house, we chatted about ArchiCad, AutoCAD, Archi3D then I wonder if there were any FOSS architecture software and thought about Blender then brl-card (thanks guys in #blender). So, ideas, suggestions, links?
15:04.53``Erikum,BRL-CAD is right there if you want to do any kinda visualization of 3d analysis
15:05.03``Erikwe're not top shelf for drafting
15:06.13``ErikI think qcad might be the top contender for architectural drawings? mostly, line drawings are tricky and overlays like dimension information is fairly manual
15:07.11``Erikon the up side, we can do photon mapping to give you a pretty realistic "photograph" of an imagined structure, even do tricks to figure out radio wave propogation so you can see where your cellphone dead zones are, etc... :)
15:08.40``Erikthe resident guru is on vacation this weekend, he may be able to offer more information in a few days
15:09.40``Erik<-- been planning on modeling his own house in BRL-CAD to experiment with furniture placement and purchase using the high fidelity raytracing to understand what it'd look like :)
15:10.17``Erikmy personal opinion is that it's more of an analysis tool for already existing or designed structures, not a drafting tool for building a structure, ...
15:11.35Utopiahobjective is http://seedea.free.fr/persowiki/index.php?n=Content.Projetautonomieenergetique#result
15:14.38Utopiah(pretty mixed in topics and languages but I guess it help to get the idea ;)
15:19.59``Erikmeh, too much french :D
15:20.19``Erikdid you look at the gallery at http://brlcad.org/ ?
15:20.19Utopiahsorry, Ill re-organize and translate it soon
15:20.52``ErikMaloeran speaks french, but is currently on a flight from dc to montreal
15:20.54``Erik:)
15:21.09UtopiahIll be in Montreal in few weeks
15:21.22``Erik<-- never been
15:22.38UtopiahIll be in NY too
15:23.13Utopiahbut anyway, if I start to design a house in qCAD  let's say then use BRL-CAD to do wifi/ light/ whaterver tests, will it works?
15:23.19Utopiahis a CAD/3D n00b
15:23.25``Erikum,
15:23.40``Erikqcad uses a line drawing format similar to autocad I believe
15:23.48``ErikBRL-CAD uses CSG geometry
15:23.59``Erikkinda different fundamental notions
15:24.22``Erikwe're all like latex style and they're all like word style, yo :D
15:24.30Utopiah:]
15:24.41``Erikwe do have a wide selection of importers and exporters
15:25.04``Erikbut any translation isn't going to be 100%, data may be omitted due to format differences, etc
15:26.54Utopiahyes
15:27.32Utopiah( http://www.openarchitecturenetwork.org/ looked really cool but, down and no archive since 1 year)
15:33.33Utopiahupdated http://seedea.free.fr/persowiki/index.php?n=Cookbook.Objects#architecture and included BRL-CAD
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19:46.42pooliobrlcad: hmm, I can't seem to acces those brep pictures or any part of bzflag for that matter
21:23.14``Erikkitteh
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091018

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091018

02:32.57*** join/#brlcad KingofCSU (n=king@118.249.59.123)
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16:28.46CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r36205 10/jbrlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
16:28.46CIA-33BRL-CAD: Added Coord (enum for X,Y,Z).
16:28.46CIA-33BRL-CAD: Added BoundingBox.intersectsCone() method.
16:28.46CIA-33BRL-CAD: Corrected BoundingBox.isect2() bug (reported intersection with axis aligned Ray when ir should have missed).
16:28.47CIA-33BRL-CAD: Added tests of BoundingBox.intersectsCone() method
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20:47.49``Erikdo you know how hard it is to get decent frozen yogurt on mars?
20:49.08MaloeranWhy, the martian dairy industry is on strike again?
21:10.53starseekersublimation of the yogurt?
21:11.44``Erikhttp://www.irregularwebcomic.net/
21:18.26CIA-33BRL-CAD: 0387.79.160.231 07http://brlcad.org * r1633 10/wiki/Prednisone:
21:18.26CIA-33BRL-CAD: Replacing page with 'deleted
21:18.26CIA-33BRL-CAD: only spam'
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21:54.34Wreckagehow to install (using kubuntu)?
23:11.52*** join/#brlcad RProgrammer (n=RProgram@66.137.171.107.duracom.net)
23:15.10RProgrammerI'm having some trouble with mged
23:15.39RProgrammerI followed the tutorial, but when I 'draw' things, they only stay on the window for a split second before they're cleared
23:20.54RProgrammerI can also press certain keys to make it paint the screen (L, Q)
23:29.11RProgrammerWait..
23:29.21RProgrammerLinux isn't really supported is it
23:29.32RProgrammerThe last release for linux was two years ago
23:44.16Ralithdon't know where you got that idea.
23:44.32Ralithreleases are made frequently with support for all major platforms, and plenty of obscure ones too.
23:49.30RProgrammerSourceforge
23:49.36RProgrammerThe download link for linux is 7.10.4
23:49.40RProgrammerReleased in 2007
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091019

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091019

00:09.16``Erikbinary packages are infrequent, the supported avenue is source. Linux is one of the primary platforms.
00:12.53RProgrammerGot it
00:13.27RProgrammerYou should emphasize that on the download page (brlcad.org)
00:21.38``Erikhuh, cellphone commercial just listed "open development" as a pro. kinda surprising
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00:31.38RProgrammer7.16 isn't unstable is it?
00:33.36``Erikno, evens are stable releases
00:34.05``Erikonly stables get tarballs
00:40.42RProgrammerGood
01:00.44starseeker``Erik: yeah, maybe I can ge a Verizon phone that doesn't suck...
01:02.26``Erik"droid" looks like it addresses a lot of the issues the g1 suffered
01:12.38Ralithdroid?
01:12.51``Erikthe name of verizons new android phone
01:15.12Ralithwhat's it fix?
01:35.40``Erikthe g1 was far underpowered
01:36.13``Erikiphone stomped it like mad, droid looks pretty close to the iphone spec-wise
01:36.18``Erikand pre's right in there, too
02:18.55Ralithcool
02:45.08CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36206 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/OpenNurbsInterfaces.cpp: removed debug testing code related to outer loop settings
02:48.26CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36207 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/PullbackCurve.cpp: Added local cubic curve interpolation routine to handle large data set fits
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03:25.03Ralithneeds to get a new smartphone eventually
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06:02.43dreeves_~logs
06:02.44ibotAll conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged.
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10:44.25d-loaren't Binary distros for *nix platforms rare?  Doesn't 'the average *nix user' prefer source?  (Honest question since I am a *nix newbie)
11:07.08MaloeranThe average user usually prefers binaries, it's a lot faster to install
11:07.53MaloeranCompiling from source can take a while, and few need the extra flexibility... or the tiny bits of extra performance
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13:09.26``Erikthe average linux user prefers binaries from inside of their distro's distribution system....
13:09.46``Erika debian user will want to run apt-get or one of its front-ends, not download a .deb or .dpkg file and install it "by hand"... :)
13:09.58``Erik(and I think "yam" is te hot stuff for rpm's now)
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14:25.52CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:Jsmith40]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled, e-mail blocked): Spamming links to external sites
14:26.14CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/delete: deleted "[[Prednisone]]": content was: 'deletedonly spam'
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18:07.20RProgrammerCan BRL-CAD do blueprints?
18:15.15tofuRProgrammer: it can do partial blueprints, but not everything you probably want
18:15.42tofumore specifically, doesn't yet support annotatations so you have to label and add measurements manually to an image
18:15.55tofuit will, however, give you the hidden-line renderings common with blueprint visualizations
18:16.18RProgrammerWhat command do I use?
18:16.26tofurtedge
18:16.31RProgrammerthanks
18:18.37*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
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18:43.14yukonbobheh
18:43.18yukonbobbrlcad: nice nick
18:49.47*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@157.26.202.84.customer.cdi.no)
18:50.24*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.49.189)
19:00.03CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36208 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: indianlarry's initial work on step-g is finally committed.
19:08.24brlcadyukonbob: thx
20:05.41CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36209 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: haiku has their networking in an -lnetwork. fix typos in FB_LIBS.
20:15.58``ErikaO.O
20:16.09``Erikhaiku even
21:24.18CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36210 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/clstepcore/ (STEPattribute.cc sdaiString.cc): gcc 2.95 has fmtflags in the ios:: class instead of ios_base::
21:28.23*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@d142-058-085-111.wireless.sfu.ca)
22:00.20yukonbobsees Sean, Bob are getting credits for Tcl fixes
22:02.33Maloerangcc 2.95? Gez, that's old
22:13.10``Erikyes, but we support old OS's some, too
22:15.19CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36211 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/exppp/exppp.c: sys_errlist[] is deprecated, using strerror() instead
23:13.06CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36212 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/opennurbs_ext.h src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp): don't rely on <limits> for portability
23:15.00CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36213 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/ (opennurbs_bezier.cpp opennurbs_curve.cpp): portability tweak supporting gcc 2.95, don't use <limits> .. using DBL_MAX instead from float.h; also quell conversion warning about bassing an ON_SimpleArray<Lines> as a const Lines*.
23:18.23CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36214 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h: couple more <limits> to DBL_MAX conversion and go ahead and use size_t for the children sizes so the _WIN32 ifdefs can be gone.
23:32.58CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36215 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (bio.h common.h): fix a problem redefining O_BINARY when fcntl.h is included. move the O_TEMPORARY and O_BINARY into bio.h where fcntl.h is already being included and test _after_ the it is included.
23:49.55*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.49.189)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091020

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091020

02:46.45CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36216 10/brlcad/trunk/ (275 files in 25 dirs):
02:46.45CIA-33BRL-CAD: Long overdue rewiring of the Docbook make system. This should support both
02:46.45CIA-33BRL-CAD: parallel making of articles and out-of-dir building. The handling of the
02:46.45CIA-33BRL-CAD: directories in the builddir is a bit crude, but seems to be effective for the
02:46.45CIA-33BRL-CAD: moment. Tested only with html/man building on OSX - need pdf testing and other
02:46.48CIA-33BRL-CAD: platforms.
02:52.59CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36217 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/Makefile.am: Eeep, come to think of it that would be highly destructive in a NON out of dir build - take it out for now.
03:03.33CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36218 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/Makefile.am: OK, try something a little less draconian for cleanup.
03:06.47starseekerah, finally :-)
04:36.05CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36219 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/Makefile.am: Whoops, missed a file.
05:40.34CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36220 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/Makefile.am: Crud, make install is looking for files create-man-dirs and create-image-dirs. Try making them phony targets.
05:53.02CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36221 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/Makefile.am: Arrgh, didn't work. As a last resort until I figure out the correct solution, create the files it wants. Useless garbage, but the install succeeds.
05:59.25starseekermust re-examine the db Makefile.am - looks like a little script foo will be required...
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10:36.44d-lolol:  http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/21-news-caption-fails
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12:07.49CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36222 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/Makefile.am: Still a hack, but at least the file in question isn't an empty placeeholder.
12:51.06*** join/#brlcad _clock_ (n=_sushi_@80-218-244-105.dclient.hispeed.ch)
13:23.57d-lostarseeker: Getting a build error: make[2]: Entering directory `/home/dloman/devel/brlcad/doc/docbook'
13:24.04d-locp ../../doc/docbook/README README.DOCBOOK
13:24.10d-locp: cannot stat `../../doc/docbook/README': No such file or directory
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16:44.57d-lostarseeker: Just as a troubleshooting point, after I get that error, I can 'svn up' and it will restore 'doc/docbook/README'.  After that, 'make' will completel successfully.  Hope that helps.
17:53.51CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36223 10/brlcad/trunk/src/brlman/brlman.sh.in: reorder the brlman path checks so that we search in priority order of run-time override, compile-time path, and run-time relative. also search datarootdir to quell autoconf warning.
17:55.44CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36224 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/generic/tclPosixStr.c: minor fix for haiku -- SIGSEGV and SIGBUS are the same there.
18:10.58*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@84-73-207-142.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:27.56CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36225 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac include/config_win.h src/libbu/interrupt.c): check for sig_t for portability with older systems that don't have itand new ones that turn it off when compiling strict
18:37.25CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36226 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/parallel.c: portability fail. remove the popen() hack as one step closer towards obsoletion.
18:49.20CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36227 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/Makefile.am: Hmm. Probably should be calling the actual rule...
18:51.42*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.49.189)
18:53.33CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36228 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcVariable.cpp pcVariable.h): more avoidance of std::numeric_limits for backwards portability support. default to DBL_MAX until a better configure check can be made or c99 compliance (and corresponding base c++ compliance) can be assumed.
19:22.36CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36229 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcParameter.cpp: fix compilation errors on older compiler that can't resolve the the Parameter:: scope on PC_PARAM_ADDVAR templatization.
19:35.36CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36230 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/Makefile.am: minor cleanup.
19:49.39CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36231 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac src/libpc/Makefile.am): portability fix for gcc 2.95 where default template instantiation depth (of 17) is getting blown out by boost. kick it up to a higher value (of 50) as is apparently done by later versions.
19:59.00CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36232 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/keep.c: cleanup, reorder to avoid forward declaration.
20:22.38CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36233 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (ged_private.h ls.c): cleanup and reorder. _ged_vls_long_dpp and _ged_vls_line_dpp are not used outside of ls.c so don't need to declare them, rename without prefix to distinguish them from api.
20:23.53brlcadstarseeker: misc/Makefile.defs has a few examples on iterating over a variable that should be helpful
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20:30.18*** part/#brlcad PocketKnives (n=none@24.30.26.130)
20:32.09CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36234 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/libged/keep.c src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl):
20:32.09CIA-33BRL-CAD: add a -R option to the keep command that makes keep not save objects
20:32.09CIA-33BRL-CAD: recursively, so that only the data for the exact objects specified will be kept.
20:32.09CIA-33BRL-CAD: this is useful when programmatically taking .g files apart and reconstructing
20:32.09CIA-33BRL-CAD: them outside of mged.
20:32.33starseekerbrlcad: that's helpful for iterating, but how can I be sure to call the new rule before BUILT_SOURCES?
20:35.43brlcadyou add it as a rule, make it a dependency on something else
20:37.06brlcadit can be a dependency on any other rule - you probably have lots of rules getting called
20:38.49brlcadif it's only needed during dist/distcheck, add a dist-hook: rule, or during an install an install-data-local: rule, or during compile as an all-local: rule, or on any of the built targets (e.g. the README.whatever: rule)
20:39.46brlcadthe top-level Makefile.am has lots of rule dependency examples for most of those
20:41.17starseekerit's actually BEFORE the compile
20:42.15brlcadso then it's a dependendy on one of the compile rules
20:42.26brlcaddependencies are always called first ..
20:43.03brlcadshowing you how to use the hammer, not where to put the nail :)
20:43.51``Erik(if (satisfiedp thang) t (progn (process (dependacies thang)) (process thang) t))
20:44.00CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36235 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
20:44.00CIA-33BRL-CAD: reword to make mged case consistent (always lower in summary lines, upper in
20:44.01CIA-33BRL-CAD: writeup prose). cliff got menus working conditionally in mged (via expansion of
20:44.01CIA-33BRL-CAD: the dm devel command) including preserving az/el orientation in the working view
20:44.01CIA-33BRL-CAD: - probably need to do more state preservation stuff later (e.g., viewsize,
20:44.03CIA-33BRL-CAD: zoom).
22:59.11``Erikmeh
23:17.15*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
23:51.25brlcadhem
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091021

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091021

00:30.57*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-185-57.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
03:39.03brlcadenough mailing list catch-up for one night
04:22.17*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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08:59.03*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=Here@69.140.109.104)
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10:42.15d-lostarseeker: Saw this, thought of you: http://www.stitthappens.com/images/random/be-rational-get-real.gif
12:22.44starseekerd-lo: hehe
12:22.48starseekerd-lo: show it to Ed
12:28.42d-loright on
12:32.07brlcadthis is the one for ed: http://xkcd.com/435/
13:10.34*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@99.147.180.206)
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14:06.43brlcadyay, tcl patch applied for haiku
16:31.38*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14CEBB.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:44.59CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36236 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/Makefile.am: Tweak docbook make file - hopefully this will do better with really fast parallel builds (thanks Keith)
17:01.39*** join/#brlcad indianlarry (n=indianla@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ)
17:01.58indianlarryexit
17:15.56starseekernotes firebird is using ant for their docbook build, and they apparently CAN define a rule to copy images
17:15.59starseekerhumph
18:05.35*** join/#brlcad Yoshi47 (n=jan@firewall.walinga.com)
18:05.41Yoshi47well thats the end of that
18:06.06Yoshi47mged is officialy dead, we had a major power outage at my company, well at least i didn't kill it
18:06.35d-lomged has a reputation for killing power in a building :)
18:08.05Yoshi47lol
18:16.54brlcadhehe Yoshi47
18:17.07Yoshi47not funny
18:17.13Yoshi47don't really care though
18:17.33brlcadremrt is the one with the reputation .. get a few dozen cpus cranking full steam, pulling extra wattage
18:19.24brlcadYoshi47: sounds like you'll have a great test case for the new tessellation approach being worked on
18:22.51starseekerYoshi47: do you happen to remember how long it ran before the wipeout?
18:23.16Yoshi47would of been at least 60000:0
18:23.37starseekerOK.  Will be interesting to see how the new method does in comparison
18:23.49Yoshi47working on one core
18:23.54starseekernods
18:24.02Yoshi471.8Ghz AMD 32bit
18:24.07Yoshi47OS that is
19:20.22CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36237 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: found really old notes that were written up on bu_bomb during robodoc days, added now for posterity.
20:17.16starseekergoes begging for help on the GNU make help email list...
20:17.52starseeker(as a side note, I wish sourceforge would adopt the list archive stuff savannah uses...
20:38.31CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36238 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Eh, what the heck - enable the docbook build of the old v5 .g spec xml translation effort - will make it easier to work on at some point in the future.
20:45.32brlcadwould've expected that one to go in some sort of spec dir or something
20:56.54CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36239 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (6 files in 5 dirs): Move spec from system to specs dir.
21:04.47CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36240 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (6 files in 5 dirs): Better be consistent - all the other toplevel dir names are spelled out, spell out this one too
21:08.17CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36241 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/Makefile.am:
21:08.17CIA-33BRL-CAD: Hmm. Add rmdir line for specifications - this highlights a weakness in this
21:08.17CIA-33BRL-CAD: approach. No images directory is (yet) created for specifications, so it
21:08.17CIA-33BRL-CAD: doesn't clean up ANY of them. By the same token, once an image is added this
21:08.17CIA-33BRL-CAD: cleaning rule will have to be adjusted. Minor, but worth noting.
21:12.24CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36242 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/unix/tcl.m4: fix tcl's compilation on haiku -- need to tell tcl how to build shared libraries, needs -lroot for dynamic loading, and (most importantly) networking routines are in -lnetwork instead of -lsocket or -lnsl
21:31.22CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36243 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tk/unix/tcl.m4: apply the same haiku patchings to tk that tcl got for dlopen, -lroot, and -lnetwork
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091022

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091022

01:16.21brlcadwonders if d-lo or starseeker or indianlarry would be willing to write a gsoc wrap-up report to post to the website before the summit
02:49.18``Erikheh
02:49.42``Eriktried the cigars indianlarry got ya? any good?
02:50.28``Erik<-- might buy a small humidor, to be able to have some handy for the rare occasion O.o
02:51.15``Eriktried a new restaurant in bel air, not bad, tap selection is weak, but the food was decent
02:52.43``Erikbehind target
04:33.59*** join/#brlcad KingofCSU (n=king@222.247.113.178)
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09:46.02*** join/#brlcad matthewmpp (n=chatzill@wsip-98-172-82-189.ph.ph.cox.net)
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14:59.52CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36244 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (archer/plugins/Wizards/humanwizard/ brlman/): ignore generated files
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15:03.32CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36245 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (. articles/ books/ lessons/): ignore the generated directories
15:07.22CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36246 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/express/: ignore the lexer/parser generated files
15:14.26CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36247 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/unix/: ignore all things libtcl*
15:15.11CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36248 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tk/unix/: ignore all things libtk*
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20:25.33CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36249 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac src/Makefile.am src/util/Makefile.am):
20:25.33CIA-33BRL-CAD: conditionalize the compilation of libpc depending on whether the limits and
20:25.33CIA-33BRL-CAD: istream STL headers are available. this keeps things going on older compilers
20:25.33CIA-33BRL-CAD: (e.g., gcc 2.95) where compilation will otherwise fail and cannot be easily
20:25.33CIA-33BRL-CAD: worked around due to the use of boost (which extensively uses
20:25.36CIA-33BRL-CAD: up-to-date/compliant stl).
20:33.38CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36250 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: it's limits not limit
21:48.01CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36251 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): cleanup formatting and indent, quell type warning
21:49.41CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36252 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/delay.c: add missing sys/select.h header
21:56.46CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36253 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged_util.c: pay attention to warnings! .. passing wrong pointer to bu_vls_addr()
22:04.49brlcadwoot, core libs all compile
22:24.09Raliththey were failing to?
22:37.41*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@42.Red-83-40-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
22:42.43starseekerRalith: I think he means on Haiku?
22:42.55starseekeror rather, on gcc 2.95
22:43.07Ralithon haiku is pretty sweet
22:43.13Ralithbut haiku has had gcc4 support for quite a while
22:43.17starseekerprobably not Haiku yet
22:43.20starseekerI'd be surprised
22:43.45Ralithit's how they finally started to get some modern oss stuff ported
22:43.50starseekerYeah, he's been checking 2.95 compile - we used to work with it
22:43.58starseekerapparently we do again :-)
23:07.15*** join/#brlcad Bynbo7 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
23:07.23``Erikwhere does 2.95 become a target compiler?
23:08.53``Erikor is it "just cuz we can"?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091023

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091023

02:11.54brlcadstarseeker: they have gcc4
02:12.16brlcaddefault is just gcc2, so it's mostly "just cuz we can" and they're mostly issues that come up on other compilers too anyways
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18:52.40*** join/#brlcad cosurgi (n=cosurgi@atak.bl.pg.gda.pl)
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22:51.40starseekergrumbles - apparently the Raytrace Control Panel in Archer uses quite different internal structures than the calls to rt in the menu
22:53.07starseekerwonders how the panel seems to know things the Archer menus don't
23:02.08``Erikdecides that he is pissed off.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091024

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091024

00:31.14*** join/#brlcad schwinn434 (n=schwinn4@adsl-217-150-83.owb.bellsouth.net)
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06:02.14brlcadarrives
06:06.59*** join/#brlcad LarsG (n=lars@nusnet-197-157.dynip.nus.edu.sg)
06:23.07*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
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08:29.28CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36254 10/brlcad/trunk/ (76 files in 2 dirs): after an entire day of continuous refactoring, cleanup, and comment migration, libbu's api docs are now all migrated out of the source files and into the interface headers. source files are all cleaned up now too.
09:38.49*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14DB52.dip.t-dialin.net)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091025

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091025

06:08.05*** join/#brlcad Ralith_ (n=ralith@69.90.49.189)
12:38.15*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14FABC.dip.t-dialin.net)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091026

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091026

00:22.05*** join/#brlcad cpc26 (n=cpc26@72.170.156.242)
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02:36.26``Erikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX3F2MAWg44
02:46.05*** join/#brlcad Ralith_ (n=ralith@69.90.49.189)
02:55.31*** join/#brlcad | (n=gopi@117.195.160.201)
02:57.58Guest29324hi, i am installing the brlcad using the sources, in make getting error " *** [libdm_la-color.lo] Error 1 "
03:50.48*** join/#brlcad Bynbo7 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
04:18.54*** join/#brlcad poolio_ (n=poolio@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ)
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08:53.45*** join/#brlcad _clock_ (n=_sushi_@80-218-244-105.dclient.hispeed.ch)
12:00.51brlcadwonders what the libdm_la-color.lo error actually was..
12:01.09brlcadsounds like a linker fail
13:05.47*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@99.147.180.206)
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13:53.12``Erikor a libtool fail
16:06.35*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14FA9D.dip.t-dialin.net)
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18:27.11*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@adsl-99-147-180-206.dsl.lgtpmi.sbcglobal.net)
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20:06.31*** join/#brlcad Yoshi477 (n=jan@d72-39-56-44.home1.cgocable.net)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091027

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091027

00:40.22``Erikoh awesome, xkcd did a site redesign
00:45.45*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
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03:33.03*** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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03:33.52*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
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10:59.46d-loMernin all!
10:59.56d-lobrlcad: starseeker: How was the Summit?
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14:28.40starseekerd-lo: awesome
14:29.10starseekerhits the road...
14:39.48CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36255 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (rb_insert.c rb_order_stats.c): formatting consistency cleanup that is messing with call count parsing
14:58.26*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@42.Red-83-40-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
14:59.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36256 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: bu_key_val_to_key_eq() isn't actually implemented
15:11.11``Erik*yawn*
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17:15.27PrezKennedybrlcad, my brother wants you to send him the poster goliath picture
18:32.16*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.49.189)
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19:02.58brlcadPrezKennedy: I know
19:03.31brlcadughs that the day is half gone already
19:04.39PrezKennedybrlcad, ok
19:10.29yukonbobbrlcad: how was text installed on that plaque in the Goliath renderings?
19:42.01brlcadyukonbob: it's an extruded bitmap
19:42.13brlcadso it actually is geometry and has thickness
19:43.05yukonbobfigured so...
19:43.43yukonbob... but will scale poorly if zoomed enough, correct (i.e. will appear "chunky")
19:44.46brlcadyeah, if you zoom in far enough, it's a bitmap
19:45.01brlcadthat was a pretty high-res image though
19:45.08brlcadsub-mm iirc
19:46.05MaloeranHey Erik, are you around?
19:46.12``Erikhrm?
19:46.40MaloeranWell, if you don't mind, I would need... you to receive a text message on your phone? :)
19:46.53``Erikcan't, don't pay for that service O.o
19:47.08MaloeranTo transfer my funds from BoA to Canada, they want to send a text message to a telephone in the US with a little code for greater safety
19:47.12MaloeranAnd well, I'm not in the US!
19:47.21Maloeranmumbles
20:20.10MaloeranNevermind all that, I can't register a phone number "because my IP is in Canada". I called and basically I can't transfer funds out of the US from here, this is great
20:27.29CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36257 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/mged.tcl: Add note at point in mged.tcl where globbing magic happens - this is where things will need to change if 'fine grained' globbing options (e.g. per command defaults) are to happen.
20:31.31brlcadhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/matthewdillon/4042675117/sizes/l/in/set-72157622657249246/
20:35.18yukonbobbrlcad: pic is of ??
20:36.16yukonbobguesses GSoC, in general...
20:52.13*** join/#brlcad Yoshi477 (n=jan@d72-39-56-44.home1.cgocable.net)
20:52.44*** join/#brlcad Yoshi477 (n=jan@d72-39-56-44.home1.cgocable.net)
21:12.30``Eriklooks like the hotel's 'party' room
21:12.59``Erikiirc
21:13.10``Erikallz I can say is... NNNEEEEERRRRRDDDDDSSSSSS
21:14.32``Erikhuh, matt dillon, one of the bsd nerds
21:17.48*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14D99D.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:22.30starseeker``Erik: yeah, you'll probably never see a nerdier crowd, at least in terms of density of computer nerds
21:22.37starseekerawesomeness
21:22.46``Erikpretty sure I have
21:22.46``Eriklast year, in fact
21:22.51``Erikwhen I was at the mentor summit
21:22.51starseekerheh
21:22.53``Erik:D
21:23.27starseekerwhat, was everyone wearing userfriendly tshirts or something?  how did you pull off MORE nerdiness?
21:23.36``Erikwell
21:23.38``Erikfor one
21:23.40starseekerwants to know :-)
21:23.44``Erik*I* was there
21:24.25starseekerhehe
21:25.27``Erikhttp://www.psfk.com/2009/10/marine-mechanics-work-50-faster-using-augmented-reality-goggles.html
21:26.21starseekerhmm
21:29.28starseeker``Erik: nifty, but they'll be in trouble if they have to do it working without 'em
21:29.41starseekeror if the visual recognition mechanisms go wrong
21:30.06``ErikI'd imagine not, probably more a boon to learning
21:30.18``ErikI mean, are you unable to use a gui program because it has tooltips?
22:43.58*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.49.189)
22:44.18starseeker``Erik: I was thinking more they would get so used to the software telling them what something is they wouldn't bother to remember for themselves (see: driving directions)
22:45.15``Erikhm, I d'no, "augmented reality" is awfully new, I first saw it in action a couple months ago (results from some iphone developer bootcamp)
22:46.02``Erikwas rather surprised to see it actually rolled out
22:47.54starseekerbuttons up and hits the road - weee rainy roads
22:50.26``Erikhave fun on the slip&slide
23:30.18``Erik*yawn*
23:58.35*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=Don@c-71-238-51-148.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091028

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091028

00:04.41*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
02:44.24*** join/#brlcad cpc26 (n=cpc26@72.170.156.242)
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08:16.53*** join/#brlcad _clock_ (n=_sushi_@80-218-244-105.dclient.hispeed.ch)
12:09.47*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
12:09.57brlcadmoin moin
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14:02.40*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@69-165-136-143.dsl.teksavvy.com)
14:07.16``Erikhm, qt4 on haiku
14:16.57starseekernifty:  http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/10/27/2115243/New-DoD-Memo-On-Open-Source-Software
19:24.04*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
19:24.04*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.8 posted (20090511) || GSoC2009 Next Step: upload your code to google, wait for shirt ;) thanks everyone! || Logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/
19:24.30CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36268 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtermio/termio.c: couple the fcntl() call to O_NDELAY instead of the fuzzy SYSV && BSD defines
20:07.13CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36269 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/Makefile.am: need networking lib (probably need equiv of PKG_LIBS but this is minimum for now)
20:28.50CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36270 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: Start inching towards an rtgl that can handle at least a minimal subset of draw/refresh and display swapping commands.
21:03.01CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36271 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: Getting closer - still doesn't know to start over when swapping ogl to rtgl for a second time...
21:06.06*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14F41F.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:19.23CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36272 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: check for the daemon function in -lbsd and/or -lc for adrt
21:20.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36273 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/Makefile.am: link -lbsd for daemon()
21:42.04CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36274 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: Whoops - a bit too aggressive resetting things after a completed job.
21:47.40CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36275 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: Crude but possibly effective method of watching for closing and opening of rtgl display.
21:49.05starseekeryech.  still lots more bugs, but it works slightly better...
22:25.11``Erikheh
22:58.28CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36276 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/slave.c: might not have getloadavg() .. old bsd func
22:58.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36277 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: check for getloadavg() for adrt
23:05.48CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36278 10/brlcad/trunk/src/bwish/Makefile.am: don't link against itk/tk if we don't have X11 (naive but sufficient assumption for now) and don't compile bwish
23:13.29CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36279 10/brlcad/trunk/src/fbed/fbed.c: make sure SIGBUS and SIGSEGV are not the same symbols
23:20.18CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36280 10/brlcad/trunk/src/fbed/fbed.c: more cleanup, just in case one is defined but not the other
23:27.48CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36281 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (8 files): eliminate the petty and useless mgedtcl.h header.
23:40.31*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.49.189)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091029

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091029

00:38.27*** join/#brlcad schwinn434 (n=schwinn4@75.81.202.25)
03:25.21*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
06:08.22*** join/#brlcad cosurgi (n=cosurgi@atak.bl.pg.gda.pl)
07:03.37CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36282 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/chgtree.c: cleanup, remove unused 'really_delete' static and unused extern decls
07:05.51CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36283 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: define HAVE_TK if we have Tk facilities available instead of relying on just the tk.h header or assuming X11 means Tk. for now, check if x11 is off, opengl is off, wgl is off, and we're not building tk.
07:06.42CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36284 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (attach.c cmd.c mged.h): utilize the new HAVE_TK to turn off the Tk portions of mged at compile-time
07:07.28*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
07:10.41CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36285 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (mged_dm.h update.c): check for HAVE_TK
07:11.16CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36286 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ (tclcad.c tclcadAutoPath.c tkImgFmtPIX.c): check for HAVE_TK instead of HAVE_TK_H
07:18.10CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36287 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (mged.h update.c): minor cleanup and reformatting
07:32.08CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36288 10/brlcad/trunk/include/config_win.h: windows always has Tk support
07:32.47CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36289 10/brlcad/trunk/include/dm_xvars.h: a little more tight typedeffage to not double def the chip.
07:33.13CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36290 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (9 files): check the other tk.h headers prior to inclusion
07:38.35CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36291 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/dm-X.c: restructure to avoid unnecessary forward decls even with the screwy dependencies
07:55.58CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36292 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-X.c: compile-time disassociation from Tk, untested but compiles clean.
07:58.48CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36293 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-X.c: cleanup, formatting, stuff
08:03.06CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36294 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/dm-X.c: oops, multichar constants are bad
08:06.28CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36295 10/brlcad/trunk/include/dm_xvars.h: provide something for Display and Window, even if horribly wrong, just to have the struct elements
08:08.09CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36296 10/brlcad/trunk/include/dm_xvars.h: ah, Colormap wants to be tricked out too
08:16.22CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36297 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/doevent.c: hide the X11 bits from sight and de-K&Rify the buttonknob funcs
08:21.21CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36298 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/update.c: stub in unused Tk callback funcs if we're not compiling for X11
08:23.47CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36299 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/Makefile.am: need to conditionally link against tk/itk in case we're not compiling against those
08:25.09CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36300 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/attach.c: missed a Tk call that needs protection
08:35.30CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36301 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rttherm/Makefile.am: ssampview is a Tk-toting shooter. protect accordingly.
08:49.53CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36302 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rttherm/Makefile.am: be sure to still include ssampview sources in the dist
08:50.47CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36303 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/Makefile.am: even though bombardier only uses Tk, couple it to X11 for the time being until there's a more specific configure subst for WITH_TK (not the dm/fb one)
08:52.19CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36304 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/Makefile.am: note the FIXME for bombardier
09:07.28yukonbobnotices brlcad's voracious coding, bids goodnight.
09:09.21CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Hexbolt.png]]": Example hex bolt screenshot
09:14.31CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1639 10/wiki/Hex: add a screenshot
09:15.50CIA-22BRL-CAD: 0369.10.33.218 07http://brlcad.org * r1640 10/wiki/Help:Navigation:
09:24.26CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36305 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/ttcp.c: totally punt and make ttcp treat haiku as a SYSV system since getrusage() isn't implemented yet.
09:25.20CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36306 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/Makefile.am: ttcp needs the network lib
09:26.37CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:69.10.33.218]] with an expiry time of infinite (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
09:26.47CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1641 10/wiki/Help:Navigation: Undo revision 1640 by [[Special:Contributions/69.10.33.218|69.10.33.218]] ([[User talk:69.10.33.218|Talk]])
09:26.48d-lowonders if brlcad is awake.... :)
09:35.11CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36307 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c: more protectage of the tk.hage; yes, I'm actually awake d-lo :)
09:36.46d-loMWAHAHA!
09:36.59CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36308 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: quell warnings on string calls. annotate TclGetLibraryPath() as being a bastard internal that we're abusively using. or, maybe I'm not really awake and just happened to time this *just* right..
11:02.45*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@42.Red-83-40-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
11:22.17CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36309 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/clone.c: push the result string into print_usage since it's peeking in regardless.
11:24.13CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36310 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/annotate.c: tweak up usage, include header
11:24.29CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36311 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/Makefile.am: enable annotate.c compilation.
11:30.15CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36312 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/nmg_fix_normals.c: quell constness warning
11:30.47CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36313 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: declare ged_annotate()
11:33.13CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36314 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/annotate.c: don't need the db open to give help
11:34.19CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36315 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/make_bb.c: cleanup
11:36.02CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36316 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/make_bb.c: also doesn't need the db open to display help (this is probably a bigger refactoring todo)
12:35.44CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36317 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/vls.c: automatically calling system() if we find a '\!' shell escape char in a vls is, like, a BAD idea. why rt_split_cmd() ever did this is moot as nothing sets HAVE_SHELL_ESCAPE anyways.
13:14.07CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36318 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/Makefile.am: Erm, only one nirt_fig24, not two.
13:14.54starseekerwonders who fed brlcad the nuclear fuel, and hits the road...
13:53.53CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36319 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added the following methods to give more flexibility to subclasses when reading/writing preferences: readPreferencesInit, writePreferencesHeader and writePreferencesBody.
13:56.19CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36320 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/AttrGroupsDisplayUtility.tcl: A little cleanup.
14:12.12CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36321 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Added the AttrGroupsDisplayUtility plugin.
14:32.16``Erikhm, 31,200 vgr's, not too shabby
14:50.57CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36322 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c: Added refresh_on command to get/set refresh_on state.
15:05.25CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36323 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/Ged.tcl:
15:05.25CIA-22BRL-CAD: Added the following methods: ged_get_color, refresh_on, refresh_off,
15:05.25CIA-22BRL-CAD: add_mouse_ray_callback, delete_mouse_ray_callback, center_ray and
15:05.25CIA-22BRL-CAD: pane_mouse_ray. Converted ged_vdraw_color and ged_rgb_color to class methods as
15:05.25CIA-22BRL-CAD: opposed to instance methods.
15:05.56CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36324 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/pkgIndex.tcl: Added a line for cadwidgets::Ged
15:11.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36325 10/brlcad/trunk/include/tclcad.h: Added go_refresh_on member to struct ged_obj.
17:04.44CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36326 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
17:04.44CIA-22BRL-CAD: Added option(-n) to bot_dump to include surface normals in the
17:04.44CIA-22BRL-CAD: generation of an "obj" file. Includes mods to "obj-g" to parse
17:04.44CIA-22BRL-CAD: over normals on input. Also happened to bring up a memory
17:04.44CIA-22BRL-CAD: freeing error in "obj-g".
17:25.47*** join/#brlcad parigaudi (n=quassel@217.91.127.94)
17:33.10CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36327 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: Well, now the draw commands don't trigger a redraw, but multiple items in the drawing list don't loop.
18:06.42*** join/#brlcad AirBender (n=AirBende@pc-188-190-46-190.cm.vtr.net)
18:10.45AirBenderHello, a friend discovered brlcad yesterday, and looks like a great piece of Software! I got the current svn revision, and tried to compile it on ubuntu 9.10 using gcc 4.4.1, but there's an error regarding a redefinition of getline.
18:12.22AirBenderhave you compiled it  with this GCC version? I know that it's more stricter than previous versions...
18:17.55*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14EB90.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:47.38AirBenderexcellent, is compiling now. The problem was related to jove, and apparently it isn't necessary
19:14.18starseekeroh, yeah - I have to disable jove too on gentoo
19:16.49starseekerand it really isn't needed - it's an old editor
19:32.48brlcadhttp://createuniverses.blogspot.com/2009/09/qtcsg-constructive-solid-geometry.html
19:38.06CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36328 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/jove/ (jove.h jove_io.c): rename getline/putline to get_line/put_line so as not to conflict with the gnu getline() extension.
19:39.11starseekerbrlcad: that's pretty cool
19:41.04brlcadand the related former project: http://createuniverses.blogspot.com/2008/09/constructive-solid-geometry-program.html
19:41.25brlcadwhich started off of http://unbboolean.sourceforge.net/
19:41.44brlcadno idea if there meshing is any good at all, but interesting nonetheless
19:42.22brlcadespecially whether they provide any sort of topological guarantees like our libnmg
19:42.41brlcador whether they even attempt to address numerical floating point issues
19:42.54starseekerah yes, the hard questions :-)
19:43.14starseekerlikes the lisp scripting they snuck in
20:18.55brlcadthought you would
20:52.21CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36329 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/annotate.c: midstream, but commit progress regardless. stash object(s) into a string while parsing args.
20:52.40CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36330 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: document the y/n option on opendb
21:01.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36331 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/jove/ (jove_delete.c jove_insert.c jove_io.c jove_misc.c): have to rename all the getline() calls
21:03.30CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36332 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/jove/ (jove_delete.c jove_insert.c jove_io.c jove_misc.c): and rename the matching put_line() calls. that should do it.
21:05.18starseekerbrlcad: heh, thanks brlcad - beat me to it
21:06.51``Eriksvn rm src/other/jove O.o
21:07.07starseekerI think it's scheduled, but we can't do it yet :-(
21:08.12brlcaddeprecated in 7.14, so 7.20 it can die
21:10.23CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36333 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/CMakeLists.txt proc-db/Makefile.am): Oops, couple missing items in make files.
21:10.45brlcadstarseeker: np, my bad regardless -- and no problem being called on it to fix bustage, but telling me/you/anyone shouldn't take longer than the fix or we both fail ;)
21:11.07starseekerheh - quite true
21:11.08brlcadlike that one, thx
21:12.08starseekerjust wasn't sure if the coding juices had resulted in a massive whitespace and tweakage fix of jove or not ;-)
21:14.11CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36334 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/Makefile.am: Erm, yeah - probably want to bring more than just articles along for the EXTRA_DIST ride...
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21:38.48brlcadjove would get no such attention
21:38.53brlcadespecially once deprecated
21:38.56MkopI realize this is off topic, but do any of you know of a CAD package that can handle mirror surfaces and angles of reflection of a laser?
21:39.27brlcadMkop: er, brl-cad does that with basic phong shading
21:39.40Mkopwhat does that mean?
21:39.55brlcadthat other jove fix was just because it was trivial and causing a build failure
21:40.05starseekernods
21:40.44brlcadMkop: we have a ray-tracing engine in brl-cad that is used for shooting rays, which can be and are used to simulate lots of things
21:40.52brlcadsuch as lasers
21:41.02brlcadour optics library handles basic material interactions
21:41.22brlcadcomputing surface normals and reflection rays is pretty trivial
21:41.58brlcadyou'd have to write a driver application or set up some custom scripts, but depends on what exactly you need
21:42.07brlcadotherwies, no, can't help you with other packages ;)
21:42.55MkopI'm designing a laser galvo system
21:43.18Mkopi.e. we have out-of-box galvos, and want to create drawings showing what will happen to the beam when the mirrors are rotated
21:46.31CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36335 10/brlcad/trunk/include/common.h:
21:46.31CIA-22BRL-CAD: wow, HIDDEN has been non-static all this time... 'lint' is apparently no longer
21:46.31CIA-22BRL-CAD: being defined so couple the static setting to whether or not we're compiling in
21:46.31CIA-22BRL-CAD: debug mode or not (so by default, debug mode has non-static for traceability).
21:46.31CIA-22BRL-CAD: this means applications will have to take care to not clobber library symbols.
21:46.57``Erikdrawings like what?
21:48.44``Erikyou could model your 'world' box, mirror and laser in BRL-CAD, then render a bunch of images with the mirror oriented differently and glue the results into either a single image with the line the laser draws, or show an animation of it...
21:48.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36336 10/brlcad/trunk/src/bwish/ (cmd.c input.c): Changed history_record to history_record_priv to avoid a name collision with libbu.
21:49.19brlcad~seen clock_
21:49.22ibotclock_ <n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 293d 7h 17m 19s ago, saying: 'did it want you to take it for a hitchhike?'.
21:49.29brlcadwhat's his new name?
21:49.34``Eriksushi I think
21:49.42brlcad~seen _clock_
21:49.43ibot_clock_ <n=_sushi_@80-218-244-105.dclient.hispeed.ch> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 16d 8h 56m 11s ago, saying: 'who has worked on PDP-1?'.
21:49.48brlcad~seen sushi
21:49.48iboti haven't seen 'sushi', brlcad
21:50.01brlcad~seen _sushi_
21:50.02ibot_sushi_ <n=_sushi_@84-72-9-254.dclient.hispeed.ch> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 18d 2h 33m 2s ago, saying: '``Erik: stupidity=1/IQ ?'.
21:50.03``Erik~seen _clock_
21:50.03ibot_clock_ <n=_sushi_@80-218-244-105.dclient.hispeed.ch> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 16d 8h 56m 31s ago, saying: 'who has worked on PDP-1?'.
21:50.17brlcadprobably about right
21:50.48starseekerbrlcad: what was the name of that really nice font?
21:51.21``Erikhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d6a804868
21:51.23starseekeroh, profont
21:52.06brlcadyeah
21:52.23brlcadnotice how the super-scaled down version on wikipedia actually shows up pretty clearly
21:52.27brlcadand that's like pt 4 :)
21:52.34brlcadmost fonts are gibbrish by that size
21:52.58starseekernice
21:57.02brlcadMkop: you might want to take a look at the Ronja project -- that's a project with *very* similar needs to yours, and is one that used brl-cad for modeling, diagrams, animations, and more
21:57.21brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RONJA  and  http://ronja.twibright.com/
21:57.36starseekerwinces - yeah, licensing doesn't look at all promising for profont
21:57.44brlcadsome visualizations: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/
21:58.04starseekerhe says he can neither grant or deny licenses - that bad
21:58.15brlcadstarseeker: I mentioned that we looked at it extensively .. was just giving the highlight summary
21:58.28brlcadwasn't just a passing thing
21:58.34starseekernods
21:58.37starseekerouch
21:58.47Mkopsorry I'm not responding to all of what you're saying, I'm just busy with something else. I will be taking a look in a few minutes.
21:58.48brlcadwe attempted for weeks to find the origins, the original author, etc -- as we wanted it to be the main font
21:59.00brlcadMkop: no expectation of replies on irc ;)
21:59.15Mkop(I just know there's nothing more annoying than some n00b coming into IRC, asking a question, and ignoring answers, so I wanted to reasssure you that's not the case)
21:59.17brlcadespecially timely ones, answers can come hours/days later ;)
21:59.58brlcadbe forewarned that brl-cad has a very steep learning curve, but lots of power and capabilities under the hood
22:00.07brlcadthe learning curve cannot be overstated, though ;)
22:02.26yukonbobchimes in: Rewards are worth the effort.
22:02.42CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36337 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/setup.c: add the annotate command to mged, as basic as it is at this point
22:03.36CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36338 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: document the (not-yet-committed) changes to bu_vls_from_argv()
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22:55.56``Erikdang n00b
22:56.21``Erikyeah, learning curve, like the emacs or vim of modelers O.O :D
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091030

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091030

00:15.31``Erikhm
00:34.38brlcadhow was dinner with la chica loca?
00:36.03starseekerraises eyebrow
00:38.03``Erikla what now?
00:38.57``Erikoh
00:39.13``Erikheh, I didn't get out of there until too late, so I called them and let them know I wouldn't make it
00:46.24starseekeris bemused - the stix fonts are still not released, but at least they finally settled on the SIL Open Font License
00:46.52starseekeralso, they have "discovered many missing glyphs in the non-Unicode fonts"
00:47.01starseekerwonders how that happened...
00:50.17AirBenderwhat is bwish in brlcad sources?
00:51.36AirBenderuhmm something like a customized tcl/tk ?
00:51.50AirBenderis it needed? can I use just Tcl/Tk?
00:53.25starseekeryou can build with a system Tcl/Tk if it's the right version, but IIRC bwish is still built as a wrapper?  I'd have to check
00:53.41AirBenderok
00:53.42starseekeris bwish causing a problem?
00:53.51starseekercan usually treat it like wish
00:53.55AirBenderI'm having undefined references with bwish
00:54.05starseekerblinks
00:54.09starseekerstarting MGED?
00:54.17AirBendertkImgFmtPIX
00:54.29starseekerwhich program are you running?
00:54.30AirBenderwhen compiling brlcad
00:54.33starseekeroh
00:54.36AirBenderfrom svn
00:54.56starseekerum - you might try updating - there've been a lot of commits today...
00:55.05starseekerdunno if any of theim hit that part
00:55.06AirBenderok
00:55.12starseekerwhich directory is it failing in?
00:55.24AirBenderthe symbol is required in cmd.c from bwish
00:55.39AirBendersrc/bwish/cmd.c
00:55.44AirBenderlne 76
00:55.48AirBenderline*
00:56.05starseekererm
00:56.26starseekeryeah, try an svn up first and see if that pulls any fixes
00:56.35AirBenderyeap, doing that
00:56.49AirBender36338
00:56.58AirBenderlet's see
01:03.24AirBenderlots of warning huh...
01:06.32AirBenderby far the most warning-full compilation I've ever done... =D
01:06.46starseekerhmm, font article:  http://mihmo.livejournal.com/45152.html
01:06.57starseekerAirBender: yeah, it's a bit noisy in some areas
01:07.06starseekerparticularly on the newest gcc compilers
01:08.00AirBenderyeap
01:08.34CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36339 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: If we aren't ready to build step yet, can't have the Makefile in configure.ac without breaking distcheck.
01:13.05*** join/#brlcad matthewmpp_ (n=chatzill@wsip-98-172-82-189.ph.ph.cox.net)
01:13.54brlcadAirBender: what are your configure flags?
01:13.55*** part/#brlcad matthewmpp (n=chatzill@wsip-98-172-82-189.ph.ph.cox.net)
01:15.12brlcada couple dirs are chatty, but you really shouldn't be getting a lot of warnings unless you enabled additional warnings
01:15.13AirBendermmm
01:15.32brlcadmore than a dozen of the core are even completely warning-free
01:15.34AirBender--enable-optimized --widh-ogl --prefix=/usr/local/brlcad
01:15.47brlcadhuh, interesting
01:16.13AirBendermay be the reason is I'm using Gcc 4.x.x
01:16.32AirBendermay be the reason is I'm using Gcc 4.4.1
01:16.45brlcadnah, I've run many a build on 4.4 already
01:16.50AirBenderok
01:17.29brlcadalso, fwiw, the bwish issue is something pretty recent from one of the 100+ commits today
01:17.46AirBenderI think it's ok now
01:17.46brlcadif you want a stable build, can grab the stable branch instead
01:18.13AirBenderI want to be synced with svn
01:18.22AirBenderthere's no problem
01:18.25brlcadso you were just out of sync?
01:18.31AirBenderit's building ok now
01:18.40brlcador did you edit something?
01:18.53AirBenderand the warning were on the first 10 minutes of compiling...
01:19.04brlcadoh, heh
01:19.05brlcadyeah
01:19.16brlcadeverything in src/other is not our code, so it's chocked full of warnings
01:19.24brlcadthat compiles fire
01:19.26brlcad*first
01:19.33AirBenderI see...
01:19.41AirBenderwell it's my first time with brlcad
01:19.58brlcadsrc/other are our external dependencies, they compile when it doesn't detect a suitable system-installed version of that dependency
01:20.09brlcade.g., libpng, libz, tcl/tk, etc
01:20.20AirBenderyes, I've read it some minutes ago...
01:21.03AirBenderinteresting approach... instead of installing every dependency on avery error
01:22.46brlcad*nod*, mostly download/distribution convenience but also for controlled compilation testing
01:22.58AirBenderok
01:23.00brlcadlets us turn everything on or everything off or individually, etc
01:24.22AirBenderby the way, do you see brlcad as a replacing for CATIA?
01:25.07AirBenderreplacement*
01:25.11AirBendersorry for my english
01:25.33brlcadthat's certainly a desirable achievement and a package that covers a similar domain
01:25.34CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36340 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: Well, can now refresh with B - but doing a draw of a second item when the first one is working without either letting the first one finish or clearing causes a crash.
01:26.07brlcadbut I more see ourselves as just doing the best at whatever our users need, more niche requirements, more flexible customization
01:27.03brlcadCATIA employs more than 1000 developers -- we have quite a ways to reach that scale to be considered an outright replacement for all their features
01:27.16AirBenderI know, and I understand that...
01:27.39AirBenderI just wanted to read an opinion of the current state
01:28.04``Erikseen the 'industry diagram' on the web site?
01:28.24AirBenderuhmm in the screenshots?
01:29.11``Erikin the 'diagrams' chunk of the gallery, yes
01:29.22``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/gallery/s/diagrams/Industry_Diagram.png.html
01:30.23``Erikthat kinda helps explain our... niche :)
01:30.23AirBenderinteresting...
01:31.15starseekerhmm, caps only, but looks OK small (not clearly licensed though :-() http://www.kottke.org/plus/type/silkscreen/
01:31.28brlcadwe're slowly expanging towards the left
01:32.54AirBenderexcellent
01:33.05brlcadstarseeker: not bad.. not as good as profont though :)
01:33.17brlcadplus the all-caps is rather annoying
01:33.26starseekernods
01:33.55starseekerdownloads profont to see if he can dig the author's name out of the font file...
01:35.35AirBendercool just finished the build process... installing now
01:35.56AirBenderMany thanks for the help
01:36.37starseekerthanks for trying it out!
01:36.41AirBenderhope brlcad meets my partner's requirements...
01:36.47AirBenderin fact they will be the users...
01:36.57starseekerrun /usr/local/brlcad/bin/mged to get going
01:37.10AirBenderI'm just building it
01:37.17AirBenderok
01:37.29starseekeryou saw the docs page?
01:37.53AirBendernot too much
01:37.56starseekerhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Documentation
01:38.14starseekerspecifically, Introduction to MGED and the MGED Quick Reference Card
01:39.10AirBenderok
01:39.23brlcadAirBender: yeah, that tutorial book is required reading -- just like any CAD system, it's very complex with a lot to learn for new users
01:40.18brlcadif you want to try something fun, can run the "/usr/local/brlcad/bin/benchmark" command to test your system performance
01:40.20AirBenderI know... but that's for my partners... I have enough to do with my part(communications/electronics)
01:40.47AirBenderwill try that
01:42.13AirBenderWow, nice to see good documentation
01:43.57AirBenderseems like your specialty is in the cmputer graphics/rendering area...
01:44.30AirBenderwell it's the most atractive info to publish anyway =D
01:47.37starseekerbrlcad: I take it most of the profont bzflag discussion took place on irc?
01:47.46brlcadstarseeker: mostly
01:47.59brlcadstarseeker: try emailing the profont addrs
01:48.09brlcadthere should be a couple in the license file
01:48.36brlcadthe problem is the license file is mostly just poorly worded
01:48.54starseekernods - ooooold ones - figured those had been tried already, but I suppose it can't hurt
01:48.56brlcadI remember it having a couple serious problems
01:50.13starseekerhopes his gmail addy won't be spam flagged...
01:50.14brlcadthe terms "maybe" added an additional restriction and didn't explicitly allow derivative works
01:50.30brlcadboth those being lgpl/gpl incompatibilities
01:50.40starseekernods
01:51.01brlcadotherwise the terms are almost cc-by or cc-by-nc (the latter of which would be a problem)
01:51.25brlcadlooks up the name
01:51.32starseekerwhat do you make of the SIL open font license?
01:51.52brlcadso yeah, Carl Osterwald or Steve Gilardi would probably suffice
01:53.13AirBenderis the benchmark usable for the developers?
01:53.19AirBenderor just for my interest?
01:53.27AirBenderit finished
01:53.52AirBender6651 times faster than reference
01:54.42brlcadAirBender: it explains what the number means, but yeah it's useful to know
01:55.11starseekerraises his eyebrow - never seen a one letter prefix to a mac.com email address
01:55.19brlcadplus it gives you a metric you can run system to system, compilation to compilation, etc .. and gives you a directly comparable metric
01:56.30brlcadstarseeker: er, don't think they're valid.. three is the min
01:59.24starseekerbrlcad: hmm.  must be a red herring
01:59.48AirBenderwell, hope to be able to cooperate with this great project in the near future
02:00.02brlcadAirBender: likewise!
02:00.02starseeker"Carl R. Osterwald" <i.DeleteThis@mac.com> wrote...
02:00.20AirBendernow we will install it on the other computers
02:00.47brlcadwe're always looking for new devs
02:00.51brlcadif you're a developer
02:01.01AirBenderI've read that there's a C++ abstraction layer in development?
02:01.15brlcadyeah, geometry engine akin to the ACIS engine
02:01.27AirBenderok
02:01.53brlcadwe have a C API over geometry services right now
02:02.19brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/BRL-CAD_Priorities.png
02:02.39brlcadhigh-level marketing priority talk
02:03.16brlcadstarseeker: can't hurt to e-mail/cc every address you find :)
02:04.33brlcador contacting folks they used to know
02:04.39brlcadwe didn't go that far last time
02:04.48brlcad(e.g., http://bishop.mc.duke.edu/bolo/guides/mapedit.html )
02:05.56starseekersuspects anything short of sending out paid detectives would be easier than finding brlcad a satisfactory replacement font :-)
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02:12.50brlcadone e-mail to a dozen addresses is pretty easy :P
02:12.59starseekerhehe
02:13.16brlcadthey'll either come back failures or get ignored
02:13.22starseekerit doesn't get serious until we pick up the phone and start calling people
02:15.05brlcadwould totally be worth it for that font
02:15.19brlcadtens of thousands of geeks would rejoice
02:16.40starseekerwell, distcheck now passes again on the Mac
02:16.57starseekersans step-g, sadly :-(
02:17.22starseekerreally doesn't get that, what it is saying is undefined IS defined in an included header, and Linux can find it...
02:20.38starseekershould probably head home now
02:21.30starseekersaddles up and moves out
02:38.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36341 10/brlcad/trunk/src/bwish/cmd.c:
02:38.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: document the Tk_PhotoImageFormat tkImgFmtPIX structure, that it comes from
02:38.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: libtclcad and providing PIX image processing support to Tk's image subsystem
02:38.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: (even though it only seems to be used by bwish and not mged oddly enough).
02:38.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: restructure to avoid decls while we're at it.
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04:18.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36342 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/OpenNurbsInterfaces.cpp: our nurbs headers have to come after the step/sdai headers because we also define DEBUG_OFF
04:19.37CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36343 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/RepresentationItem.h: missing sdai.h for the SCLP23wahtever wrappage.
04:20.51CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36344 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: readd step to build, it should generate the makefile regardless of compilability
04:24.01CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36345 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/Makefile.am: re-enable traversal into the step dir. critical piece seems to be missing here that you have to define DIST_SUBDIRS so we traverse all dist dirs regardless of SUBDIRS (which isn't the same as EXTRA_DIST'ing a subtree)
04:24.48CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36346 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/Makefile.am: minor cleanup, one-per-line, shouldn't tab empty lines, declare built sources.
04:25.42PrezKennedybrlcad, guess what my current title at the pentagon is
04:26.06starseekergrins evilly... must resist temptation...
04:26.24starseekerbrlcad: thanks alot for looking at that step stuff
04:26.32starseekeris grateful
04:26.44brlcadthere are compilation failures/assumptions galore that still have to get fixed
04:27.03brlcadPrezKennedy: Monkey Butler?
04:27.21PrezKennedyclose... computer programmer
04:27.30brlcadcool
04:39.53CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36347 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (dvec.h vector.h): rename vector.h to dvec.h so we can avoid a name clash with the old stl compatibility header of same name
04:39.53CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36348 10/brlcad/trunk/include/dvec.h: rename to dvec.h; need raytrace.h for fastf_t
04:39.53CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36349 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/PullbackCurve.cpp: include dvec.h instead of vector.h so we get the right header
04:39.53brlcadso that gets it to compile for me (untested runtime)
04:39.53brlcadcheck distcheck and see if it still fails
04:39.55PrezKennedyits all good, contract will be over long before we ever have the tools we need to code :)
04:40.12brlcadexcellent
04:46.28brlcadstarseeker: mini todo list for the mess in there... 1) copyright headers to all files (sh/header.sh, you or indianlarry since it was proxy should be fine), 2) standard footers, 3) no using namespace std;, 4) headers are a mess (see HACKING) but at least need common.h first, then system, then whatever else everywhere for portability, 5) svn:ignore dir products (docs need that too), 6) indentation (sh/indent.sh)
04:50.05starseekerbrlcad: sounds good - I'll hit it first thing tomorrow morning (will sleep momentarily)
04:50.38starseekersorry about docs - been building out of dir too much and forgot the reorg wiped out the old settings
04:51.22starseekermuchas gracias :-)
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08:53.26CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36350 10/brlcad/trunk/include/Makefile.am: vector.h was renamed to dvec.h
09:48.40CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r36351 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (4 files in 2 dirs): vector.h was renamed to dvec.h because of possible a conflict with a STL header file name
10:13.16CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r36352 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/obj-g.c: because of MSVC compiler error: replaced c99 idiom with c89 compatible one (all declarations have to be on top of a block)
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12:11.32CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36353 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/brep_test.cpp: another vector.h to dvec.h conversion
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13:50.23CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36354 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/Makefile.am: need to put the source in extra dist manually if it's not compiled, just like the others
13:51.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36355 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/Makefile.am: handful of other files and one dir missing from the dist. nirt fig20, authors xml, mged05 image, spec image dir, and manpage readme missing.
13:53.36starseekerbrlcad: ah, thanks
13:55.21brlcaddo you get a slew of warnings in the step dir about  "warning: ignoring old commands for target"?
13:55.33starseekeryes
13:55.44starseekeron Mac
13:55.44brlcadis that from a clean checkout?
13:55.46starseekernot sure about Linux
13:55.50starseekerI believe so
13:56.00brlcadnot one that "upgraded" to having it enabled
13:56.48starseekeroh, wait
13:57.12brlcadi think it's the two variable rules causing it, but needs to be tested clean first in case it's red herring
13:57.14starseekerI think I saw those warnings only when conv/step was enabled
13:58.04starseekerdoes a quick svn status
13:58.46brlcadit's not how it is now -- it's whether you had a plain checkout/build with it already on, or if you reran autogen.sh at some point
13:59.20brlcadonly way to test clean is: sh autogen.sh && ./configure && make distclean && sh autogen.sh && ./configure --whatevers....
13:59.28brlcador just check out clean again
13:59.54brlcadhits the road
14:00.05starseekerbrlcad: I've been doing part of that cleaning process, but not full - I was just getting set up for a distcheck build so I'll give it a go
14:00.49brlcadyou only need the double autogen/configure when you suspect its automake being pissy .. which those double-rules could be
14:01.03brlcadcourse, that ${}: rule is screwy too
14:01.49brlcadthat probably needs to be changed, plus the other change, and hopefully we're good to go with a few doc updates
14:02.10brlcadneed to get larry to document his change in TODO
14:02.13brlcader NEWS
14:02.28starseekerfreudian slip ;-)
14:02.47brlcadnot really, TODO needs to be updated too :)
14:03.26starseekerwishes indianlarry had committed his recent work - merging in any changes after I get done with indents and header/footers will be hell
14:03.44starseekeroh, well - burnt hand teaches best :-P
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14:11.00brlcadword of caution that indent.sh results need to be visually inspected
14:11.10brlcadparticularly if there are #ifdefs or namespaces
14:11.44brlcadeasier if there are headers/footers first as the footer will end up being indented indicating there are extra braces
14:37.11starseekerhrm make[2]: *** No rule to make target `html/specifications/en/images', needed by `distdir'
14:37.14starseekerchecks
14:38.37starseekeroh - brlcad, the reason spec images weren't there yet is that there aren't any (yet)
14:43.04starseekerthe empty directory was causing problems, iirc
14:45.05starseekerdoesn't remember which ones
14:56.54starseekerdeletes the spec images directory until needed
14:59.51CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36356 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (Makefile.am specifications/en/images/): Don't put an empty directory in the svn repository - will re-enable this logic once there are actual specification images.
15:08.08starseekeryeah, it's overriding commands in step dir on a clean build
15:13.08CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36357 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (344 files): Add footers to all step conv files that don't appear to be static copies of NIST files - need to discuss what has to happen with the NIST code with indianlarry in order to use the step libs in src/otheer/step
15:17.45CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36358 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (STEPEntity.cpp STEPEntity.h STEPWrapper.cpp STEPWrapper.h): Get a few more files that aren't NIST copies.
15:57.10starseekerhmm, interesting:  http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m3e5e2b63
16:10.00starseekerdoes Mac have emmintrin.h I wonder...
16:10.38starseekerok it does...
16:14.21starseekerconst double *, that looks ok...
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17:23.48``Erikppc mac? didja try building a universal binary?
18:26.46``Erik"The greeks invented sex. Later, the italians invented it with women."
18:32.52starseekerbrlcad: yep, you called it - the fpu implementation works
18:39.54brlcadyou should compmile on linux with fpu, then compare sse vs fpu
18:40.22starseekerwouldn't fpu pretty much always be slower?
18:40.31starseekershudders to think about raytracing
18:42.00CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36359 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (PullbackCurve.cpp PullbackCurve.h): Put headers on PullBackCurve files
18:51.27CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36360 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (6 files): Switch from using std namespace to explicitly prefixing with std:: (per brlcad's advice)
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18:59.38starseekerhey Ralith :-)
19:00.01Ralithhullo
19:00.07starseekerhow goes it?
19:00.28Ralithmuch to my dismay, univ involves work ;_;
19:00.35starseekerheh
19:00.53starseekeryeah, they do like that
19:01.17Ralithat least it's friday
19:02.47starseekerRalith: do you recall if we're using quaterniuns for rotation in ogre or is it the yaw, pitch, etc. stuff?
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19:08.31Ralithand the wifi sucks, to boot.
19:14.07starseekerdistcheck passes on Linux
19:17.51starseekerlooks at the TODO file for items to do before next release and winces
19:25.48Maloeranstarseeker, fpu can be faster if you are doing a lot of cos(), sin(), pow() and other stuff that the SSE instructions won't do
19:26.13MaloeranBesides that... stick to SSE of course :)
19:40.14``ErikI thought amd had trig 'n shtuff built into theirs? just intel was r-tarded? :)
19:40.25``Erik(mebbe needs explicit 3dnow stuff)
19:53.35MaloeranThere was no trigonometry stuff in 3dnow either
19:54.08MaloeranBut it had horizontal instructions, the fun stuff that Intel took 7 years to think about and they managed not to get it quite right either
19:56.07MaloeranGo USD, a recovery of 5% in just a week!
19:56.19MaloeranIt's amazing for such a major currency to be so unstable...
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20:13.58brlcadstarseeker: no, the fpu is very often faster -- it depends on a lot of factors
20:14.07brlcadhow much work you can keep feeding the pipeline
20:14.48brlcadthere's a cost to transfer data into and out of the simd registers
20:15.11brlcadso that cummulative overhead has to be recovered with enough computation and minimal/no interruptions as much possible
20:15.36``Erikmal: what're you talking about? CAD fluxes like mad, sure, but I'd hardly call it a major ... :> *duck*
20:35.32starseekermakes notes on personal todo... email profont guys, benchmark fpu vs sse, check out ttkdraw...
20:37.11Maloeran``Erik, that's a good point! You can see it both ways... Either the USD is fluctuating wildly, or it is stable but every other currency in the world is! ;)
20:38.10Maloeranbrlcad, cost to puttign stuff in and out of the simd registers is about the same as for the fpu
20:38.50MaloeranTechnically, older archs like Athlon64 were faster with fpu stuff ( a movss from memory requires zeroing out the remaining 96 bits, so it was slower ), but recent chips like Core 2 crunch the SSE stuff better
20:39.40MaloeranFPU requieres the code to fxchg all the time to bring any value you want to work on at the top of the stack, SSE lets you access any register directly in a sane way
20:40.28brlcadnot just the load
20:40.36brlcadyou still have to wait for the pipeline to flush to get your result
20:40.46brlcadthat's part of the "load" overhead if you can't fill it
20:40.59MaloeranThe latency and throughoutput of the SSE stuff is better for all recent chips, as far as I know
20:41.14MaloeranIf you benchmark an Athlon64 or a Pentium 4, then it's a very different story
20:41.55brlcadwe tested just two years ago and took a pretty big hit for incorrent work
20:42.32brlcadthinks it was two, a xeon either way
20:42.35MaloeranBesides all the "basic" instructions, you can do stuff like fmin(), fmax(), fabs() without branching on SSE, it's a single instruction
20:42.52MaloeranI guess it was a Xeon based on the Pentium 4 arch
20:43.57brlcadwell we have a perfect way to test that theory on most chips with our vmath interface
20:44.22MaloeranYou can eliminate a lot of branches if you begin doing bitwise stuff with SSE, but that'll take some use of SSE intrinsics
20:44.59brlcadthose are pretty specific cases from what I'm talking about
20:45.16brlcadthere are lots of things sse/simd does way better
20:45.19brlcadotherwise what'd be the point
20:45.31Maloeran*nods* Right, I'm not too sure what your benchmark was doing of course
20:45.43brlcadthe general commpute case though, isn't beneficial generally speaking though
20:46.25MaloeranWell I would be very surprised, I thought that was only right for chips of the P4 or Athlon64 generation
20:46.41brlcadotherwise the compiler could just do it for all math ops and we'd be good to go -- some compilers can do it for sections of code where there is a loop of ops that translate well, but still not for general case
20:47.04Maloerannods
20:48.06brlcadif you're writing the algorithm fresh and can keep the pipeline filled, great :)
20:49.02MaloeranI guess I'm a bit biased, I write the code with a good idea in mind of what GCC will output... when I'm not just using SSE intrinsics directly
20:49.03brlcadthe test case we were using was a surface solver iirc
20:51.10brlcadthe only point I was making was that you can't just take something like a simple single vector multiply, feed it to the simd unit, and expect it to speed up
20:52.25MaloeranRight, although the throughoutput should be higher with SSE on some very recent chips
20:52.42Maloeranx87 is getting rather deprecated
20:52.44``Erikbe amusing to twist vmath up with sse stuff to see what the difference is there, though
20:52.56brlcadthroughput should be higher even on older ones
20:53.20brlcadif you have more than random food for the pipeline, you can keep it busy and get some gain
20:53.38brlcadthat's just not the general case unless you design for it
20:53.54brlcad``Erik: yeah, jason actually did that with those vector headers in include/
20:53.56MaloeranYou can keep the x87 busy as well, the Athlon FX and Athlon 64 were doing very intense register renaming under the hood from sequences of fxchg
20:54.06brlcadnot vmath directly, but several of the same routines are implemented
20:54.12brlcadwhich is what he's using in the solver
20:54.50brlcadyeah, l1/l2 cache on the chip is just as important, but likewise you have to plan for it
20:55.03brlcadkeeping data coherent and fit in cachelines doesn't just happen
20:55.36MaloeranI never wrote any x87 assembly, tracking where your stuff is on the fpu stack looks painful
20:55.38brlcadif you're already coherent and fit, then yeah sure .. you'll translate pretty simply to simd and can g et even more gains
20:55.45Maloerannods
20:56.43brlcadtotally would love to see all our CSG prims have a coheret shot() routine with a coherent boolean eval to leverage the same techniques that are used for triangle tracing
20:57.00brlcadat least an order of magnitude to be harvested there
20:57.29brlcadeven with lots of data validation branches remaining sprinkled throughout
20:57.42MaloeranSounds like there are other things to worry about before getting into fpu versus SSE :)
20:58.11brlcadeveryone likes faster tracing ;)
20:58.18brlcadthat'd make a great paper too
20:58.39Maloeranshivers at the mention of writing papers
20:58.45brlcadheh
20:58.59brlcadyou shoulda written one on rayforce at the time :)
20:59.13MaloeranIt looks most uninteresting to me, really
20:59.19brlcadthink most have caught up by now though too
20:59.36brlcad"most" being ill-defined of course
20:59.46brlcadthe top five tracer impls
20:59.51MaloeranPerhaps, not too sure if they are still stuck in their BSP ages, or other tree-based techniques
21:00.50MaloeranI code for fun really, I just hate the thought of reading or writing papers
21:06.13MaloeranSuch as this rather fast "tricubic weighted b-splines" image filtering I just wrote today for the CFD visualization... I tend to think it would have been rather boring to just implement what some paper might have said
21:09.25Maloeran( although if the algorithm has an official name, I don't have a clue what it is )
21:10.42``Erikdamn you, emacs
21:17.33brlcadyou might get joy/satisfaction just out of solving the problem, but I hate to spend time solving a problem that has already been solved
21:17.47brlcadthere are plenty of unsolved problems to resolve every problem that is simply 'new' to me
21:17.59brlcadto each their own :)
21:20.51``Eriknice http://jalemanyf.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/microsoft-fail.jpg
21:21.29``Erik(look at the laptop they're driving with)
21:28.47yukonbobheh
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22:28.10starseeker``Erik: is that legit or a photoshop job?
22:28.43``Erikdunno, had the same thought myself
22:34.22MaloeranTrue brlcad, I guess sometimes it just takes as long to understand what someone else did and re-create it, than just create something yourself :)
22:34.59MaloeranEheh Erik, nice one
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22:46.05brlcadMaloeran: that's often true, but even if it's faster to figure it out myself, to me that is still wasted effort as it builds on nothing but my own experiences (which as impressive as they may be will never be as much as everyone else currently and previously alive)
22:50.00brlcadplus in my fatalistic view, I'll be dead soon enough and everything I've learned is moot, so there's value in knowing the things I've done are actually 'improvements' in some regard as they build on those before; for whatever qualification of 'better' (faster, easier, more maintainable, foss-style free, innovative, new, whatever)
22:51.57*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
22:52.23``Erikjust like exercise, you'll be dead soon enough, and any muscle you have will just rot away, and there're other people with more muscle :D so exercise would be pointless
22:52.26``Erik*duck*
22:52.48brlcadif muscle were the goal, that would be completely true :)
22:53.08``Erikis getting ready to code up something overdone and useless just to get the brain exercise from it :)
22:53.48``Erikprovided, of course, she decides to let me O.o cats seem to know that their proper place is on the laptops keyboard.
22:53.49brlcadI do it for the "drugs" .. the endorphin rushes, the runner's highs, the 'feel good' and 'feel fantastic' times
22:54.24``Erikendorphines trigger the opiate receptors, there're other ways to trigger those :D not nearly as healthy, but easier and quicker
22:54.26brlcadmakes me happy, might as well enjoy my limited time here
22:54.39brlcadright
22:54.56``Erikor; bind to, rather
22:55.11``Erikbrain chemistry is nutty stuff
22:56.19brlcadmy way doesn't actually endanger others (generally speaking), shorten my lifespan (generally speaking), require interacting with nefarious individuals, or make an impact on my ability to buy toys (which also just make me happy)
22:56.46``Erikwhoa, I don't need to know about your "toys" there, dude
22:57.05brlcadmy toys rock
22:57.12brlcad:)
22:57.48``Erikspeaking of, I've been thinking about picking up the sheevaplugs bigger brother
22:58.11yukonboblaughs about ``Erik going on about "toys" and "plugs"
22:58.39brlcadsheep plugs?  ew
22:58.56``Eriksshoot, had the url the other day
22:59.17``Erikyukonbob: I thought you liked debian? O.o
22:59.31brlcadthis thing? http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/02/marvell-sheevaplug-plug-pc-computer-wall-wart.php
23:00.14``Erikthat's the $100 wall wart version, there's a $250 one with loads more to it
23:00.25yukonbob``Erik: /me -used- to be a debian person, before I evolved to *BSD.
23:00.58``Erikahhh, you saw the light, hehehe
23:00.58``Erikthe sheeva stuff all comes with debian, I'm hoping to get fbsd going on one
23:01.22louipcwow that's awesome
23:03.48yukonbobas far a Linux goes, debian seems sane to me. I'm inclinded to say same about slack, but these days I only _read_ about it (infrequently). Been ~14 years since I've _run_ it.
23:06.34``Erikhttp://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/p-24-openrd-client-openrd-client-board-with-enclosure.aspx
23:06.37``Erikthere we go
23:06.52``Erikhah, yowza, that's quite a while :)
23:06.57``ErikI went to bsd about 10 years ago
23:09.06yukonbob<- FreeBSD dabbling ~10 years ago, NetBSD permanently since NetBSD 1.6
23:09.51``Eriknever tried netbsd. fbsd is my bread&butter, done some obsd, and I've even dug up old 43bsd and 44bsdlite for simh
23:10.05``Erik(I think the 43 used the 'tahoe' set)
23:10.30``Erikon a vax 780... was working on installing BRL-CAD 4.4 on it... :D
23:23.45``Erik*snrkt* http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1923263  nice
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091031

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091031

00:39.40*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Warlock@bas2-sudbury98-1096601251.dsl.bell.ca)
01:17.24brlcad``Erik: hehe, diito
01:17.35brlcadthat's awesome
01:19.14brlcadis living it up as a scruffy guy tonight, scotch, nica libre, and heroes ftw!
01:19.31``Erikheh, sgu and beer here
01:19.55brlcadcaught oup on sgu ayer
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06:40.39*** part/#brlcad LarsG (n=lars@137.132.209.108)
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13:13.04``Erik*yawn*
14:10.23MaloeranMorning
14:37.34brlcadciao
14:44.53starseekerblinks as his xorg-server ebuild applies 78 patches to the base tarball...
14:59.15louipchaaaa
15:13.28starseekeraaaand still doesn't compile
15:13.48starseekerevidently my video card is too many driver generations behind
15:14.10starseekeroh, well - working fine, so mask new and move on...
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091101

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091101

01:02.38*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.49.189)
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11:03.31mafmwhoa
11:03.47mafmtalk about development activity in the last few days :D
11:04.07mafmdo you have a git repository that you use before uploading to SVN or what? :PPP
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19:17.04yukonbobmafm: no Git
19:33.59louipchehe I wonder how git could handle the repo
19:44.48*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@157.26.202.84.customer.cdi.no)
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22:49.59``Erikhttp://twitter.com/shitmydadsays
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091102

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091102

04:54.28starseekerah, here's an actual .mil address with the DoD OSS memo:  http://www.defenselink.mil/cio-nii/sites/oss/
05:08.26starseekerthis is nifty too:  http://www.defenselink.mil/cio-nii/sites/oss/Open_Source_Software_%28OSS%29_FAQ.htm
05:19.58brlcadinteresting, hadn't seen that one
05:20.09brlcadthough lots of the same topics on the miloss ml
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11:53.28d-lo``Erik: lol, I'm cryin here.  It's like they quoted my dad's best sayings.  hahahahaha
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16:10.44CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36361 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (BoundedCurve.cpp BoundedCurve.h):
16:10.44CIA-37BRL-CAD: Removed virtual function definitions for PointAtStart(),
16:10.47CIA-37BRL-CAD: PointAtEnd() use base class definition instead.
16:20.35CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36362 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (BRLCADWrapper.cpp BRLCADWrapper.h STEPEntity.h STEPWrapper.h): Added namespace usage statement for "std" and cleaned up full references.
16:33.47*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
16:38.06CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36363 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/PullbackCurve.cpp:
16:38.08CIA-37BRL-CAD: Fixed initial control point direction calculation for start condition of the
16:38.11CIA-37BRL-CAD: curve in local curve interpolator(The NURBS Book). Also some additional seam
16:38.13CIA-37BRL-CAD: logic for checking pullback points of closed surfaces.
16:46.56CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36364 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/OpenNurbsInterfaces.cpp:
16:46.58CIA-37BRL-CAD: Multiplicity of initial and trailing knots for Curves and Surfaces not always
16:47.00CIA-37BRL-CAD: matching what OpenNURBs was expecting. Also cleaned up looping of sampled
16:47.03CIA-37BRL-CAD: 2d pullback data for 2d curve generation and endpoint checking.
17:21.32starseekerbrlcad: uh, Keith just undid the cleanup of namespace std...
17:24.00starseeker(of all the days to be out sick...)
17:24.15brlcadyeah, he's apparently not reading commit messages
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17:30.12brlcadstarseeker: he also had an edit in there, so can't just revert without a merge
17:34.17brlcadmaybe reference http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/coding-standards.html#faq-27.5 in a revert/merge commit message
17:36.41brlcadit's a pretty common convention amongst c++ open source projects for a variety of reasons really
17:37.34brlcadadded indirection, reduction of new-reader complexity, naming conflicts, obscure bugs, defeating purpose of namespaces in the first place, etc
17:38.56brlcadanother example from google's guidelines, http://google-styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/cppguide.xml#Namespaces
17:40.48CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36365 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/PullbackCurve.cpp: Fixed header reference from vector.h to dvec.h.
18:27.31*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@d142-058-084-255.wireless.sfu.ca)
19:03.24CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36366 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtie/tie.c: report total number of triangles in scene
19:04.58CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36367 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): stub out an initial marching cubes hook
20:25.26yukonboboh hai, #brlcad
20:35.49*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@d142-058-083-185.wireless.sfu.ca)
20:56.22``Erikheh, ralith, "squirl"? :)
20:56.45Ralithplaying with github?
20:57.04Ralithit's a play on "chipmunk."
20:57.07``Eriksaw it mentioned in #lispgames actually
20:57.13Ralitho
20:57.13Ralithdidn't know you idled there
20:57.24``ErikI'm stalking you.
20:57.27RalithD:
20:57.35``Erikdidn't you get the box of chocolates I left in your bedroom?
20:57.37``ErikO.o
20:57.44yukonbobha!
20:57.45``Erik:D
20:57.59Ralithpats deadbolt
20:58.28``Eriknah, I started lurking there in september
20:58.41Ralith``Erik: it's pretty neat; me and a few others are codebinging on it and it's around 2/3 done after just a weekend's work
20:58.58``Erikyeah, but I grabbed your git branch and it doesn't compile for me
20:58.58Ralithalthough
20:59.05Ralithheh yeah
20:59.05``Eriksbcl 1.0.30
20:59.16Ralithsykopomp doesn't test his code >_>
20:59.35``Erik(0 . 0) redefined as (0 . 0) ... etc
20:59.40Ralithoh that's normal
20:59.45RalithSBCL is annoying about defconstant
20:59.49Ralithjust hit restart 0-
20:59.51Ralith0*
21:00.27Raliththe nasty stuff is where sykopomp's been doing things like (let ((t ...)) ...) and various chunks of unreachable code
21:00.28``Erikyeh, did that earlier *shrug*
21:00.46``Erik... redefining true? O.O
21:00.50Ralithnot intentionally
21:00.52Ralithwe're porting C
21:00.56``Erikright
21:01.08Ralithand 't' was used as a local variable name there
21:01.22``Erik*shrug* and it didn't get an "eh??" from him? hehehe :)
21:01.25Ralithand I guess it didn't occur to him that it might not port cleanly >_>
21:01.34Ralithapparently CCL didn't notice.
21:01.55Raliththere have been various package lock on CL violations, too, but I think those've been resolved
21:02.46``Erikbe interesting to see a performance comparison once you guys have a solid handle on it
21:03.03Ralithyeah, that'll be neat
21:03.07RalithI expect it to be pretty comparable
21:03.16Ralithonce we've added declarations and etc.
21:03.28``Erikright, and set optimize 3, etc
21:03.38Ralith(which won't be till it runs cleanly and successfully without)
21:05.33Ralithheads to class
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21:40.22starseekerhmm:  pullback_samples:Error: cannot evaluate curve at parameter 0.0
21:40.25starseekerstep-g
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22:32.44CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36368 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged_private.h: Declare _ged_do_zoom instead of ged_do_zoom.
22:40.33CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36369 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: release prep, most tasks remaining aren't gonna make it. still should rename istat/dstat though since it's trivial.
22:54.33CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36370 10/brlcad/trunk/README: time for some change. restructure the README so that we get to the getting started section more quickly. move the background info down.
23:04.04``Erik*yargn*
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091103

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091103

00:05.38*** join/#brlcad IriX64__ (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177726847.dsl.bell.ca)
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02:28.47starseekerwell, if nothing else the pirate bay trial has provided the most appropriate use for Star Wars quotes I've seen in years...
02:31.33Ralithoh?
02:32.03``Erik"I have altered the deal"?
02:37.30``Erikheh http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=26185
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03:00.00PrezKennedy"meesa jar jar binks"
03:00.06PrezKennedynope, still ineffective
03:00.12starseekerheh
03:00.31starseekerliked "Strike me down and I will become more powerful..."
03:02.53starseekercan't say I can fault the logic of commercial interests wanting to shut down the pirate bay, but it does seem like the corporate version of the wack-a-mole game
03:05.31*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
03:13.00``Erikor aiming to destroy the last effective marketing channel they have available
04:08.47CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36371 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac:
04:08.49CIA-37BRL-CAD: John Pritchard aka comoc reported build progress/failures to our forum (
04:08.51CIA-37BRL-CAD: https://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad/forums/forum/362511/topic/3446934?message=7745246
04:08.53CIA-37BRL-CAD: ) where HAVE_IEEEFP_H is being used by openNURBS but our test was removed.
04:08.55CIA-37BRL-CAD: readd the test with a comment so it's clear that the test pertains to a
04:08.57CIA-37BRL-CAD: src/other target.
04:18.06CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36372 10/brlcad/trunk/src/sig/ (dstat.c istat.c): some basic cleanup
04:27.33CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36373 10/brlcad/trunk/src/sig/ (dstat.c istat.c): more minor consistency stuffage
04:40.05CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36374 10/brlcad/trunk/src/sig/ustat.c: more cleanup
04:41.59CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36375 10/brlcad/trunk/src/sig/ (7 files): rename [idu]stat to istats, dstats, ustats in order to avoid name collisions with a couple other (minor) projects. quick search shows the new plural names are unused as command names.
04:43.57CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36376 10/brlcad/trunk/src/sig/ (dstats.c istats.c): update to reflect the new file names. note that the massive commonality of these three commands begs for a refactoring and unification.
04:44.43CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36377 10/brlcad/trunk/src/sig/ustats.c: update to reflect the new file names. note that the massive commonality of these three commands begs for a refactoring and unification.
04:49.15CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36378 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
04:49.19CIA-37BRL-CAD: renamed the three dstat/istat/ustat tools in order to avoid naming conlicts with
04:49.21CIA-37BRL-CAD: a few (seemingly obscure, albeit very much related) projects. new names fit
04:49.23CIA-37BRL-CAD: better with the fact that they compute various useful stats, not just one given
04:49.25CIA-37BRL-CAD: stat.
04:50.22CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36379 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: stat tools renamed, pretty much good to go after a few more notes are added and tests confirmed
04:57.24CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36380 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/keep.c: touchup for testing.
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12:53.58CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36381 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: bah, ) typo
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13:35.11CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36382 10/brlcad/trunk/src/sig/Makefile.am: what a piss poor rename. update the build files too.
13:41.09CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36383 10/brlcad/trunk/src/sig/d2-c.c: cleanup d2-c, restructure to avoid forward decls and globals
13:43.35CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36384 10/brlcad/trunk/src/sig/Makefile.am: not sure what d2-c is actually useful for but it's a pseudo 'signal' processor so enable it for compilation. the code looks fairly clean and simple.
13:50.42CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36385 10/brlcad/trunk/src/sig/smod.c: formatting cleanup
13:51.29CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36386 10/brlcad/trunk/src/sig/Makefile.am: enable smod for compilation as well. doesn't seem to be any real reason why it was not enabled in the first place other than a few missing headers.
13:56.14CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36387 10/brlcad/trunk/src/sig/ (Makefile.am fhor2.c fhor3.c):
13:56.16CIA-37BRL-CAD: quick review indicates that fhor2.c and fhor3.c were just further
13:56.18CIA-37BRL-CAD: 'work-in-progress' files that actually do less with more assumptions than the
13:56.20CIA-37BRL-CAD: main fhor.c; never merged back together or made divergent features an option and
13:56.22CIA-37BRL-CAD: not exactly a high-use command so kill the fluff.
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16:26.24CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36388 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/facetize.c tclscripts/mged/help.tcl): start wiring the marching cubes shtuff up to mged
16:38.14brlcadwot
18:11.35``Erik?
18:59.22CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36389 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/facetize.c: assume triangulate if using marching cubes
19:00.36CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36390 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/Ged.tcl: update help for marching cubes
19:50.28brlcadnuthin, just a truncated woot
20:02.35``Erikah heh
20:07.27CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36391 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/Makefile.am: put BRL-CAD headers in include/brlcad/
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20:20.56brlcadhm, those ... shouldn't be installed should they?
20:21.07brlcadlook like private headers
20:24.16``Erikdunno, just noticed they were being installed to the wrong place, didn't really look at 'em
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20:42.29``Erikhrm
20:48.56CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36392 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/vls.c: implement initial private vls_encode()/vls_decode() functions for supporting faithful conversion from argv to vls and back while preserving spaces and quotes.
20:49.13CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36393 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/argv.c: null the freed pointers out for sanity
20:52.38CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36394 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/vls.c: quell sign warnings
20:55.40CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36395 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/vls.c: convert to a while loop so we don't need to calculate strlen nor keep track of an index
20:57.09CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36396 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/Makefile.am: these 'should' be entirely private headers. see who complains.
21:05.18CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36397 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/rb_walk.c: style atrocity of ' -> ' converted to '->'
21:19.07CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36398 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/primitives/metaball/metaball.c): trivial useless function to compare the metaball point value to the threshold.
22:49.20brlcadstarseeker: you get any reply from the profont guys?
23:03.42CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36399 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/vls.c: for loop so we make sure str++ is always called each iteration; deref string instead of element [0] for consistency
23:31.33``Erik<PROTECTED>
23:33.41``Erikrock and roll will never die
23:33.43``ErikO.o
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091104

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091104

01:01.09``Erik<-- watches the new V
01:01.46brlcadtoo
01:02.44brlcadalready saw the 10min intro preview on hulu... looks like it's going to be pretty good stuff if it stays at that level
01:03.52``Erik<abc> huh, really? bsg? we need to do it, too. look at our old backlog from 30 years ago for cheesy scifi...
01:04.25``Erikmy parents loved the original series, scared the shit otu of me when I was like 7 though :)
01:05.33``Eriksomeone told me that baccarin is in this?
01:05.53``Erik(inara from firefly)
01:07.20brlcadoh yeah, big role
01:07.21brlcadhawt
01:07.34``Erik?
01:07.41brlcadliked the jab on i-day
01:08.33``Erikhm, I missed that, haven't seen independence day since... it was ... in theaters?
01:09.01``Erikd'no if I dig her with short hair
01:09.10``Erik(but damn, if that ain't a reason to move to brazil...)
01:10.38``Erik(bigassed ship hovering over cities the jab you were commenting on? dr who's done that, others have, too)
01:12.12``Erikhuh, 2 people from firefly
01:12.26``Erikwash :)
01:15.15brlcadno, there was a short blurb of two geeks getting interviewed on tv
01:16.12brlcadthey commented "wow, this is like independence day, but for REAL! .. except that independence day was like a rip-off of about a dozen other alien invasion shows that came before it"
01:16.23brlcadwhich the V would be one of ... :)
01:17.04``Erikah, heh, didn't notice it :)
01:48.09``Erikinteresting persuasive argument, she said everything, and he just repeated it.
01:51.54starseekerbrlcad: uh - my brain got fried by this headcold before I put it together
01:52.33starseekerwas gonna discuss what we would need with you before I put the email together, too
01:54.29starseekersupposes it was inevitable he was gonna get something what with planes + CA, but this sucks...
01:58.42``Erik"devotion" heh
02:45.44starseekerhmm, cool:  http://lyre.sourceforge.net/
04:31.07CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36400 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/list.c: quell verbose warnings about %p types
04:32.41CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36401 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/tcl.c: quell shadow warning
04:40.37CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36402 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/units.c: convert to near-zero testing instead of relying on == testing of potentially non-ieee floating point types. quell verbose compilation warnings.
05:23.08CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36403 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/vls.c):
05:23.10CIA-37BRL-CAD: change the signature of bu_argv_from_string() to take a const string instead of
05:23.12CIA-37BRL-CAD: modifying the input string. this requires the caller to deallocate the array
05:23.14CIA-37BRL-CAD: elements (with bu_free_argv() or bu_free_array()), but is safer than relying on
05:23.16CIA-37BRL-CAD: them to not modify/delete what the gave as input that the argv was referring to.
05:23.18CIA-37BRL-CAD: still doesn't decode yet.
05:24.02CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36404 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/annotate.c: need to check all calls now to make sure we're freeing our array memory after bu_argv_from_string().
05:26.42CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36405 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (8 files): style atrocity of ' -> ' converted to '->'
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18:52.06IriX64pardon the intrusion, but where does $(ECHO) live? I replaced it with echo in makefile in conf and now more n's at end of output into files such as date host etc.
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18:59.13IriX64_ratty connection ill return later
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20:36.18CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36406 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: the new encode/decode rules break mged's custom struct parsing. need to fix or disable for release.
20:38.08CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36407 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/CMakeLists.txt: distcheck failure on nmg_tri_mc.c .. missing from CMakeLists.txt
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21:38.41starseekerhrm: indianlarry, here's part d on the Mac (once I switch from vector_x86 to the fpu version) http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m15b6494c
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22:29.09starseekeranybody know anything about wix?  http://wix.sf.net
22:37.11starseekerhmm... generates msi files
22:37.15starseekerinteresting
22:37.32starseekerwonders what its file size limits are
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091105

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091105

00:35.34brlcadstarseeker: ah, msi .. those aren't installshield
00:37.24brlcadit'd have to be a pretty fledged installer to surpass our nsis one, though .. it's pretty swank with it's options, graphics, optional sections, etc ..
00:39.45brlcadthink the issue is more bob ran into a bug and instead of figuring out the problem, he'd rather play with something new
00:41.06brlcadthe problem just needs to have some earnest investigation put into it to see if it's something wrong in our nsis file, an nsis bug, or a network filesystem problem
00:41.57brlcadi took a quick look at the nsis source code and the error he's getting is a generic "file i/o" problem (which stupidly just assumingly reports as disk full)
00:43.15brlcadwould be trivial to add some better debug statements in, recompile, see what the real error is; or do the nsis on a diff (non-net-fs) system
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01:35.58starseekerbrlcad: in fairness to Bob, he never mentioned wix - I'm the one who went looking
01:36.10starseekerBob never asked me to - I'm the guilty one
01:37.23starseeker:-P
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03:56.08starseekerwonders if virtualbox will finish compiling before Haiku finishes downloading
04:08.34brlcadfor those that haven't seen fitz' and sussman's latest tech talk, it's pretty good:  http://code.google.com/events/io/2009/sessions/MythGeniusProgrammer.html
04:08.58brlcadstarseeker: aha .. hm.
04:25.14starseekercompile finished first :-)
04:31.46starseekerbrlcad: hadn't looked at installer development on Windows since last InnoSetup vs. NSIS discussions - was curious if anything new had appeared
04:34.24brlcadhttp://wix.sourceforge.net/ is probably the other at a mature enough level, but with a steeper learning curve
04:52.09starseekerinstalls Haiku into a virtualbox image
04:52.17brlcadwoot
04:52.50brlcadstarseeker: you'll need to change the default network adapter in virtualbox for haiku to use it
04:53.10brlcadthere's a page on their wiki about it, but basically the first intel one iirc
04:53.39starseekercool :-)
04:55.27starseeker(install is taking a little while on my now lame machine)
04:59.32starseekertries to think if there have ever been any true genius programmers... hmm... Knuth maybe?
05:05.13starseekerwell, the mouse moves ssssllllooww but I guess really I can't kick for full virtualization on something this old
05:08.37starseekerhello from Haiku! :-)
05:09.15starseekerthat is easily the easiest experience I have ever had getting networking working in a virtual machine
05:09.37starseekerwinces, remembering when bochs was all the rage...
05:10.39starseekerthat was coool :-)
05:11.02starseekermust try out ReactOS...
05:18.14starseekerhas an idea born of true and pure evil... use ReactOS + msys/mingw to build a Windows install of BRL-CAD that never touched Windows :-)
05:18.45starseekerFortunately, the toolchain almost certainly isn't up to anything so bats**t insane
05:20.13brlcadslow mouse? interesting.. mine was too fast default
05:20.31brlcadthey don't yet have accelleration dampening working well
05:21.42starseekerfeels like CPU cranking
05:21.58starseekerhas an old dual P4 - may not be up to this kind of action
05:33.48starseekerblinks - internet in ReactOS??
05:33.57starseekerholy smoke
05:40.06starseekerwonders how this sucker would respond to a movitz image...
05:44.26brlcaddon't forget the mosix disc from the summit too ;)
05:45.22starseekerminix you mean? ;-)
05:45.28brlcader yeah
05:45.33starseekerhasn't heard of mosix for a while now :-)
05:46.21starseekerdownloads mingw and msys into ReactOS
05:46.29starseekerunreal...
05:47.34brlcadunreal tournament? :)
05:49.11starseekerheh - could try that too
05:50.33starseekerah, phew - msys isn't working right
05:50.52starseekerwas afraid for a minute there he might actually have to attempt a BRL-CAD compile
05:54.25brlcadheh
06:01.46starseekerhehe - it will take the movitz floppy image
06:10.56starseekerooo, how could I forget AROS:  http://aros.sourceforge.net/
06:12.45starseekerpity about their custom license
06:24.25starseekermmm, freedos - ah, the good old (or old anyway) 386 days
06:35.40CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36408 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/vls.c: checkpoint. further progress on encoding/decoding from string to argv and back.. though there is still some wonkyness with quoted/escaped words. continued work in progress.
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11:26.29d-lo``Erik: lol, I'm cryin here.  It's like they quoted my dad's best sayings.  hahahahaha
11:26.38d-lobah, now that's strange.
11:26.41d-loMernin all!
12:12.35brlcadmernin
12:24.59CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36409 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/vls.c): revert back to 36317 removing the new encode/decode so raytracing is unbroken and release prep can continue. the issues with encode/decode can get sorted out post-release.
12:25.43CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36410 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: test it, ship it
12:27.59d-lobrlcad: You been playing with Haiku recently eh?  opinions?
12:30.10brlcadd-lo: been following haiku since before they were called haiku
12:30.58brlcadi'm pretty excited, actually -- they've had a surge of rapid progress ever since they finally got self-hosting earlier this year
12:31.59brlcada far ways off from holding a stick to any modern distro, but Haiku's clean heritage and architecture design is one of the best imnshho
12:33.35brlcadstarseeker: at a glance, I'm not sure indianlarry's recent multiplicity change is right.. that might be related to the eval problems
12:37.06brlcadopennurbs doesn't store the repeat the start/end knots for surfaces/curves for a given order, duplicating them internally implicitly during eval -- it's not clear to me what r36364 is doing in that regard
13:16.03CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36411 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.c: apply a heavily modified version of Jack Devanney's ( djw1 ) sf patch 2889987 (improvement to f_opendb) that should make mged not prompt for new file creation if opendb is called with a y/n tail argument.
13:19.20CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36412 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: special thanks to Jack Devanney for his mged opendb patch, even if it didn't survive on apply. he pinpointed the issue and provided a working patch regardless.
13:38.39CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36413 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
13:38.41CIA-37BRL-CAD: prompted by Jack Devanney's problem of adding 'opendb file y' to .mgedrc and
13:38.43CIA-37BRL-CAD: having it still prompt, his patch and my refactoring have made things better
13:38.45CIA-37BRL-CAD: where it should obey the [y/n] opendb tail regardless of which mode mged is
13:38.47CIA-37BRL-CAD: running.
13:56.58CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36414 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: keith added a -n option to the bot_dump command where it'll write out surface normals (untested)
14:01.06CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36415 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: keith also made some improvements to obj-g making it handle files that have texture and surface normal data (by ignoring that data)
14:04.13CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36416 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
14:04.17CIA-37BRL-CAD: bob implemented a new plugin in archer for displaying groups of attributes and
14:04.19CIA-37BRL-CAD: showing/hiding objects associated with those attributes. shows up an a graphical
14:04.21CIA-37BRL-CAD: panel with list boxes, object selection, and key bindings that drive the
14:04.23CIA-37BRL-CAD: graphical window.
14:05.36brlcadthat completes my review items
14:05.58brlcadgood for someone(tm) to do cross-platform compile testing and sync to STABLE
14:10.14someoneheh
14:14.24brlcadhehe
14:15.30starseekerattempts to get his voice to sound a little less like a dying frog...
14:15.40*** topic/#brlcad by louipc -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.16.0 posted (20091006) || Logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/
14:16.02louipc7.16.0 :D
14:16.20louipcstarseeker: you got the flu?
14:16.31starseekernah, just a headcold
14:16.43louipcah alright
14:17.00starseekerrunning the standard head, tonsils, body ache, coughing up crap cycle
14:17.12louipcpeople are going nuts over the flu and vaccinations here
14:17.23starseekersometimes I can ride 'em out, but this one was a bit of a doozie
14:17.42louipcnew and improved virus eh
14:17.46starseekeryea, I keep getting asked if I've got the flu
14:18.10starseekerstandard response: shhh! digestion is the one thing I HAVEN'T had a problem with yet!
14:18.30louipchehe
14:19.32starseekerbrlcad: did indianlarry ever get a Windows build environment set up?
14:20.09starseeker'twould be nice if the Windows build stuff could be swatted
14:20.48starseekeriirc some of 'em had to do with recent changes to opennurbs_ext
14:23.37starseekernotes with some bemusement that the FreeDOS install takes just as long as he remembers it taking years ago
14:24.51*** join/#brlcad parigaudi (n=quassel@pd95b7f5e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
14:25.39starseekerheh - watcom c/c++ compiler - I'll bet that's one BRL-CAD has never encountered
14:26.57brlcadnot in at least two decades probably
14:31.30``Erikheadcold must be going around, kept me out of the office yesterday, still coughing and snotting a bit O.o
14:34.11starseekeryeah, Sarah had it last week and folks at her place were down sick too
14:34.14starseekertiz the season
14:34.53``Erikannoying, anytime anyone coughs or sneezes, everyone goes "??? H1N1?? AAAHHHHH
14:35.07starseekerheh, yep
14:35.13starseekergets that too
14:35.37starseekerit's like "No, but maybe I can find you some if you want it..."
14:36.06louipcthis cold going around must be the 'test'
14:36.07starseekerisn't this the so called "swine flu" that we were all up in arms about last goaround?
14:36.29starseekerthought H1N1 was the "official" name for that, but could be wrong...
14:36.33``Erikyeah
14:36.35``Erikit is
14:36.57``Erik(actually, if I understand correctly, h1n1 is a family of flu virii, which 'swine flu' belongs to?)
14:37.02*** join/#brlcad cosurg1 (n=cosurgi@atak.bl.pg.gda.pl)
14:37.03starseekerhmm, so we've had world ending due to bird flu, world ending due to swine flu...
14:37.11``Erikdon't forget sar
14:37.13``Eriksars
14:37.25starseekerwas that different from the bird flu?
14:37.28``Erikoh, and the world ended from the swine flu in the 70's, so *shrug* it's all good, right?
14:37.39``ErikI thought so? *shrug*
14:37.48starseekerbut nobody expects... the Hampster Flu!
14:38.14``Erikshitloads of media fearmongering for a story... 5000 people int he world have died of swine flue this year, the "regular" flu kills 200,000-500,000 a year
14:38.30``Erikthe spanish flu killed many millions less than a century ago
14:38.37louipcyeah what the hell is sars
14:38.45starseekerthat's the 1918 one, right?
14:38.51``Erikyeh
14:38.58starseekerthat WAS scary.
14:39.08louipchaha sars is a cold
14:39.20starseekerairborne, most dangerous to healthy people, struck fast and hard
14:40.13starseeker'course, sanitation practices in 1918 still left something to be desired, and the world WAS recovering from a very bloody war.
14:40.15louipcit's less dangerous to sick people?
14:40.23louipco.O
14:41.01starseekeriirc, the theory about the spanish flu was that the immune response it provoked in healthy people was so strong as to be dangerous, whereas those with weakened immune systems couldn't damage themselves as much
14:41.26starseekersomething about an immune system "storm", but it's been a while since I saw anything about it and I'm no expert <shurg>
14:42.47starseekeroh:  cytokine storm (overreaction of the body's immune system)
14:44.22louipcoh kinda like playing an old video game on a faster machine
14:49.22*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@217.Red-83-38-34.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
15:01.03starseekerhmm.  I'll bet if any OS does well with VirtualBox it would be opensolaris....
15:44.51*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@217.Red-83-38-34.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
17:04.04starseekerdecides his head isn't going to fall off and heads in...
17:58.03``Erikgonna have to leave my laptop in a room with a closed door O.o one of the cats closed it.
18:39.59*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
18:48.01starseeker``Erik: the cats are stealing your laptop? O.o
18:49.22starseekerours would probably consider it a warm place to sleep...
18:54.53``Erikwell, I closed the lid down so there was like 2 inches between the top and base, so it'd stay running... was ssh'd in and compiling BRL-CAD on it and it stopped pinging. I assume that means the noise and heat got someones interest and it became a seat
18:55.08starseekerhehe
19:04.49starseekerooo, glad I'm not in Montgomery County
19:05.05starseekertraffic control computer crashes, nothing moves...
19:09.50yukonbob``Erik: you need a USB electric fence for it.
19:10.13yukonbobUniversal Shock Bus?
19:14.38starseekerhey, this is kinda cool:  http://sumo.sourceforge.net/
19:16.31starseekerhttp://elib.dlr.de/21012/2/dkrajzew_TRAF9_AgentbasedTLS.pdf
19:17.57yukonbob3/win 3
19:18.14starseekeryukonbob: hmm?
19:18.32yukonbob<--- fail. ww.
19:19.32starseekeris now going to be compelled to play with this traffic simulation program and waste more brain cells :-)
19:19.54starseekerreal fun - integrate openstreetmap data into simulations
19:20.18*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net)
19:22.16``Erikactually, been tempted to get some motion detectors and wiring them into spritzers as deterrents, just concerned about water+electronics :/
19:23.13``Erikwas looking at air freshners and saw some that claimed to be motion activated, hrmmmmm
19:23.49``Erikwiggles his toes and continues to wait for http://www.stargateworlds.com/
19:36.32starseekerhmm - open source Air Traffic Controller environment:  http://www.albatross.aero/projects/projects-list/project-details.php?p=NA==&s=TGVhcm5Nb3Jl
19:41.18starseekerah, phooy - project members only
20:13.06*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@157.26.202.84.customer.cdi.no)
21:07.24CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36417 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/metaball/metaball.c: crude timing test for metaball tesselation.
21:07.35``Eriktakes a moment to laugh evilly.
21:07.40brlcadheh
21:10.58``Erik(feel free to comment on the tolerance bit)
21:11.10``Erik(as for the rest; shove it. :D )
21:14.15``Eriksubversion applied to become an apache foundation project
21:14.27brlcadneat
21:14.41brlcadis the tolerance dynamic?
21:14.57``Erikit's whatever is passed in
21:14.59brlcadthen it sucks ;)
21:15.11``Eriklooks for the max of the two rt tols' and the bn tol dist
21:15.40``Erikand uses that value as the grid size
21:22.31CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36418 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp:
21:22.31CIA-37BRL-CAD: Added buffer around UV pushback for loose fitting edges may not need if we can
21:22.32CIA-37BRL-CAD: tighten the 3D edge to shared surface.
21:24.36CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36419 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/opennurbs_ext.h src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp): (log message trimmed)
21:24.39CIA-37BRL-CAD: Added tolerance argument to getSurfacePoint(), added quick return if
21:24.41CIA-37BRL-CAD: point found within BREP_SAME_POINT_TOLERANCE, else now iterates
21:24.45CIA-37BRL-CAD: through looking for closest point within tolerance argument. Also
21:24.47CIA-37BRL-CAD: added BREP_EDGE_MISS_TOLERANCE buffer around 3D bounding box to make
21:24.52CIA-37BRL-CAD: sure 3D edges fall within bounding boxes (needed when generating
21:24.58CIA-37BRL-CAD: pullbacks on loose edges).Also moved BREP_EDGE_MISS_TOLERANCE and
21:25.33CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36420 10/brlcad/trunk/include/brep.h:
21:25.37CIA-37BRL-CAD: Moved BREP_EDGE_MISS_TOLERANCE and BREP_SAME_POINT_TOLERANCE definitions
21:25.39CIA-37BRL-CAD: to opennurbs_ext.h
21:27.16brlcad``Erik: ahh.. pretty sure you just broke the build on windows
21:27.34brlcadinstead of calling gettimeofday/clock directly.. how about just rt_get_timer?
21:27.48brlcadwraps those some routines portably
21:41.41CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36421 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/metaball/metaball.c: use rt_{prep,get}_timer() instead of gettimeofday for portability
21:41.45``Erik"for those users of lesser os's"
22:04.03CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36422 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/metaball/metaball.c: attempt to do something almost kinda sane with relative tolerance?
22:13.25CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36423 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (9 files):
22:13.29CIA-37BRL-CAD: Cleaned up and removed some debugging/dead code from pullback routines, added
22:13.33CIA-37BRL-CAD: some developmental routines as initial start to edge tightening
23:21.20Ralithhm
23:21.21Ralithhey guys
23:21.39Raliththere was someone here a while back that I talked into tutorialifying an impeller he modelled to learn mged
23:21.45Ralithdid that ever get finished?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091106

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091106

00:00.13Ralithbrlcad: you might remember doing a glass render of it?
00:02.15``Erikrecalls the impeller, vagually recalls some discussion about having a draft of it available for people to test
00:49.11brlcadRalith: course I remember.. asn't that long ago :)
00:50.15brlcadhe had a script, no writeup iirc, though
00:50.49Ralithaw.
00:50.54Ralithscript'd be interesting nonetheless
00:50.56Ralithknow where I can find it?
00:51.15Ralithis, to his surprise, starting to hear from reprappers interested in mged
01:46.07brlcadi'd have to dig through the logs
01:46.17brlcadmaybe someone else is motivated ;)
01:54.10``Erikhttp://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=22920
03:03.40CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36424 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (parse.c ptbl.c rb_insert.c semaphore.c): quell extra compilation warnings
03:05.40brlcadheh
03:12.35brlcadmmm.. tasty: http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=1374
03:12.45brlcadwonder if you can get that toasted
03:43.51CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36425 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: include a note that there have been further tweaks and enhancements that affect/improve NURBS ray-tracing via keith.
03:49.35CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36426 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: incomplete for plate-style non-solid bspline/nurbs geometries, but I made old bspline/nurbs use the new/improved opennurbs ray-tracing.
07:22.32*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ)
11:42.04``Erikyou'd just end up with tuna breath
12:02.23*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@217.Red-83-38-34.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
12:09.53*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@157.26.202.84.customer.cdi.no)
13:17.17CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36427 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Update windows build to accomodate adding/deleting source files from build.
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15:21.10CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36428 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/metaball/metaball.c: add/use a function two search for the surface intersection between two points.
15:27.04``Erikheh, "two search", I'm teh smrtt
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16:07.59brlcadsenses a slight disturbance in the force
16:08.39*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@63.246.136.16)
16:08.40*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
16:08.53*** join/#brlcad indianlarry (n=indianla@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
16:12.23*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
16:12.23*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.16.0 posted (20091006) || Logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/
16:22.02brlcadheh, a recursive bitcount function
16:24.56brlcad``Erik: there's a high-performance 32-bit bit-counter in src/libbu/bitv.c
16:25.20brlcadas well as other general bit vector facilities if that's what you were doing with that..
16:26.25brlcadstarseeker: do you think you will be able to sync and tag today?
16:46.17PrezKennedybrlcad, what type of monitors do you have at work these days?
17:00.36brlcadlcd?
17:00.38brlcadflat ones?
17:01.10brlcad30"'s and 24"'s
17:24.46*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
17:45.34CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36429 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/pix-ppm.c: cleanup formatting but more importantly improve the usage statement to indicate that output is on stdout
18:14.59``Erik*burp*
18:16.33``Erikrecursive ftw
18:17.43``Erikwas also looking at doing some inline assembly to use SSE shtuff in that file O.O
18:46.10brlcadthere's a handful of places I've thought about using some inline too
18:46.35brlcadbut didn't want to do the configure foo to make sure it's portable at the time, and the payoff was minimal given other stuff
18:47.14brlcada libbn/vmath sse toggle would be pretty interesting to revisit
18:49.57starseekerbrlcad: I'll try - I'll see if I can get all the distcheck builds done
18:50.09brlcadk
18:50.43brlcadreally needs to at least get tagged today if we can so stable nightly will pick it up tonight
18:50.51starseekernods
19:00.51*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@66.93.0.189)
19:05.53``Erik2hm
19:06.09``Erikon x86, runtime check if SSE is available and have both codepaths available in the binary?
19:06.17``Eriklibrtsse.so ?
19:23.11``Erik"I'm not lost, I'm spacially displaced"
19:43.02*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@84-73-204-88.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:44.15CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36430 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (config_win.h dm_xvars.h): tk for windows provides the X11 types that are part of the tk api. unbreak the windows build and improve the typedeffage we don't typedef if we already have them.
19:44.49brlcadthat'd be cool, but even more work :)
19:44.58*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@d142-058-091-091.wireless.sfu.ca)
19:48.27CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36431 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/archer: Modify where to look for archer.ico.
19:51.52CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36432 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: Added lines for attrGroupsDisplayUtilityP. No longer copying entire doc directory to install directory (i.e. it breaks nsis)
19:55.41CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36433 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/ (archer/Archer.tcl lib/Ged.tcl): Added code to reduce the number of unnecessary redraws in Archer. More to follow.
19:58.30CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36434 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (dg_obj.c draw.c): Fixed a bug that potentially tries to use a bu_list as a solid (i.e. when the list is empty).
19:59.46CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36435 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c: Tweak the png command a bit.
20:04.48CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36436 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/ (pix-png.1 pix-png.c): improve pix-png output and add a '-o filename' option so that a file redirect is not required
20:05.26CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36437 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/pix-ppm.c: make sure pix-ppm doesn't blather raw ppm data directly to a terminal..
20:29.37CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36438 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/ (pix-png.1 pix-png.c): refactor so that you can actually send image data out to both a file and a specified redirect, in case some crazy user actually tries it.
20:32.17CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36439 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/pix-png.c: match case ordering
20:35.03CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36440 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/pix-ppm.c: make pix-ppm work a lot like pix-png, stubbing in support for a -o option and adding additional tty protections for input/output checking.
21:27.30CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36441 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h: Sean changed size_t to int in a few places to iterate over BA node min/max indices. Also includes a WS update
21:43.42CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36442 10/brlcad/trunk/ (ChangeLog NEWS include/conf/PATCH): OK, here we go - update version numbers, ChangeLog
21:43.47CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36443 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/pix-ppm.c: eliminate two globals for width/height
21:44.34*** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (n=Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1)
21:44.53brlcad~nickometer R0b0t1
21:44.59brlcadheh
21:45.21R0b0t1wat
21:45.24brlcadR0b0t1: howdy!
21:45.28brlcadignore that :)
21:45.32R0b0t1:D
21:45.32starseekercool :-)
21:45.38starseeker~nickometer starseeker
21:45.45R0b0t1What.
21:45.47starseekerhehe
21:45.55louipc~nickometer Irix64
21:46.18starseekerbrlcad: I hadn't see that feature before
21:47.13louipcadding 1 to the end of my nick makes me 22% lame
21:47.28brlcadso don't do that ;)
21:47.57louipcheheh
21:48.00brlcadthe algorithm has it's flaws .. some lameness it can't detect
21:48.14CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36444 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/ (pix-png.c pix-ppm.c): no need for usage to be static
21:48.31brlcad~nickometer thisissomereallyannoyinglylonglamenick
21:48.39brlcadooh, it's gotten better
21:48.50louipcshould be in the 90s
21:48.58brlcadheh
21:50.36R0b0t1~nickometer a
21:50.57louipc~nickometer 1
21:51.02louipchahah
21:51.45R0b0t1~nickometer p3n1l31n5t7rum3nt0ft0r7ur3
21:58.54yukonbob~nickometer yukonbob
21:59.02yukonbobah, thanks ibot
22:00.10brlcad~nickometer 123
22:00.21brlcadtricksy that one
22:00.41brlcad~nickometer 1234567890
22:00.56CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36445 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/pix-ppm.c: refactor the ppm output into a single write function and fix the header always going to stdout instead of the specified output.
22:06.16CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36446 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/pix-ppm.c: cleanup defines no longer used
22:13.42yukonbob~nickometer brlcads
22:13.47yukonbob~nickometer brlcad
22:14.02yukonbob~nickometer ``Erik
22:14.09yukonbobohhhhhhhhh
22:15.28louipcHAHH
22:35.28``Erikoh, hey, I'm WAY lamer than that
22:35.30``Erikdamn bot
22:36.11``Erik<-- pets his stealth marks
22:36.32``Erik~nickometer `````````````
22:36.50``Eriklime heuristic :)
22:37.04``Eriklame, even
22:37.59Maloeranscratches his head as he just can't find GCC's floating point software emulation in the whole source tree
22:38.33MaloeranBut really, I'm only very curious what the algorithm for pow() looks like. Anyone got some pointers?
22:40.10CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36447 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/pix-ppm.c: enable the -o output option and also allow redirected output per pix-png
22:40.32``Erikwell, on yoru fbsd machine, cd /usr/src, fire up cscope and find it :D
22:42.13MaloeranYes well, I'm grepping abundantely, I just... don't find it!
22:43.32MaloeranAlternatively, anyone of you who actually studied that computer science stuff could lead me to the algorithm for computing floating point powers? :)
22:43.47``Erikfold_builtin_pow() ?
22:43.54``Erikin builtins.c ?
22:44.04CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36448 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
22:44.06CIA-37BRL-CAD: per confusion by a particular user, improved the pix-ppm tool (and pix-png as
22:44.08CIA-37BRL-CAD: collatoral damage) by adding a -o output option so you don't have to redirect
22:44.10CIA-37BRL-CAD: stdout if you don't want to. even better, you can redirect AND use -o output.
22:45.26MaloeranWoah, that actually leads somewhere
22:45.39MaloeranThanks Erik, not sure how you did it but I'm impressed
22:45.56``Erikmy grep-fu is better than yours. :D
22:46.01MaloeranYes :(
22:46.25``Erikblames his college education :> *duck*
22:48.05MaloeranThat function doesn't actually compute pow(), it tries to simplify it, but I hope I can backtrack from that point
22:48.39``Erikit passes the simplified tree to an expression folder that copes with it
22:48.51``Erikif I understood correctly from my quick skim
22:49.25MaloeranRight, it tries to simplify the pow() call to something cheaper to compute
22:49.33MaloeranI'm looking for the big expensive version
22:51.14MaloeranAh well, that doesn't actually lead to the floating point software emulation, it's for optimization of pow() with constants
22:52.27``Erikhm
22:52.28``Erik*shrug*
22:54.49``Erikmebbe gmp would be a better target?
22:54.52MaloeranSo from all these years in college, you wouldn't know something about the pow() algorithm? :)
22:55.19MaloeranYes maybe. I assumed I could find that easily in GCC's source code, it's supposed to have a complete floating point emulation layer
22:55.24Maloeran... somewhere...
22:55.50``ErikI'm sure I saw something about it, but the point of university isn't applied knowledge as much as the skill to research topics and have a breadth of understanding, from what I've seen
22:56.01``Erikthat's what differentiates university from a tech school
22:59.06MaloeranFound it in GMP. Something tells me the algorithm to compute a fixed 32 or 64 bits would have been simpler... but that will do, thanks!
22:59.30``Erikgcc is hardly a good place to look for clean algorithms... :D
23:00.29MaloeranI don't know, I like their source code design
23:05.53MaloeranGah. Looks like that in GMP, you can't do float^float?
23:06.12MaloeranThe exponent must be an integer, that's terrible
23:09.56MaloeranThat's really disappointing form a big number math library, I'm amazed...
23:11.51*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.49.189)
23:19.35``Erik(could always compile -march=i386 and disassemble?)
23:19.46``Erikexpmed.c seems ... screwy O.o heh
23:23.49MaloeranSure, I could compile -msoft-float ... All right let's try that
23:24.17MaloeranI was googling online wondering how could GMP not support powers and logarithms with floats
23:25.26``Erikheh, decNumberExponent in gcclib raises to an int, too
23:26.32Maloeran-msoft-float makes a call to "pow" in glibc instead of using the fpu, not much better!
23:26.50``Erikheh
23:26.58MaloeranAnd glibc doesn't provide floating point software emulation
23:27.31``Erikis starting to wonder if powf() still works on reasonably modern gcc's O.O
23:27.36``Erikon fpu-less cpu's
23:28.33MaloeranThere has got to be a software implementation of pow() *somewhere*
23:29.36MaloeranDisassembled libm.so, pow() just runs the x87 instruction
23:34.08CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36449 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/CMakeLists.txt: create the showshot binary just so the cmake file is in sync with the Makefile.am
23:34.31``Erikhttp://wurstcaptures.untergrund.net/assembler_tricks.html ?
23:35.53CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36450 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/cmakecheck.sh:
23:35.55CIA-37BRL-CAD: update the script to not really care where/how a file is referenced for cmake
23:35.57CIA-37BRL-CAD: since the SOURCES thing it keys on for our libraries is just a convention.
23:35.59CIA-37BRL-CAD: assume if a source file is referenced, that it's good enough to consider it in
23:36.01CIA-37BRL-CAD: sync. this lets us add in the intaval, iges, and nirt directories to the list.
23:38.21MaloeranMeh, it's an approximation for values strictly in the range [0,1] and [1,128]
23:38.41MaloeranBut I think I found something in GCC's source, gcc/real.c is their floating point software emulation stuff
23:40.10MaloeranIt only supports integer exponents too! This... can't be...
23:44.47MaloeranLooks like no programmer on earth knows how to compute pow() with floats, since no one implements it ( GMP, gcc, etc. ). Only hardware designers know its secrets
23:45.23``Erikwell
23:45.27``Erikthere it is in msun
23:45.37``Erike_powf.c
23:45.58``Erikdoes leenewx have msun stuff?
23:47.11``Erikhttp://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/lib/msun/src/e_expf.c?rev=1.14.2.1.2.1;content-type=text%2Fx-cvsweb-markup
23:47.24MaloeranOh, nice
23:48.59MaloeranYou gave me e_expf.c but I found e_powf.c, nice
23:49.32``Erikoh, srry, found it on my machine, was trying to find the cgi one real fast
23:49.47Maloerannods
23:49.51Maloeran:) Thanks
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091107

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091107

00:23.37*** join/#brlcad Cazax (n=Cazax@unaffiliated/cazax)
00:39.25*** part/#brlcad Cazax (n=Cazax@unaffiliated/cazax)
01:14.50R0b0t1Hey, anyone there?
01:15.02R0b0t1I'm having problems compiling brlcad from source on my ubuntu
01:15.14R0b0t1It says libz.la doesn't exist...
01:15.24R0b0t1But it should be in the archived directory I unzipped.
01:26.06``Erikwhen you ran ./configure, did it say it was going to use the system zlib, or try to build it?
01:29.06R0b0t1``Erik: It says "no: Using system"
01:29.18R0b0t1Although, it says a surprising number of things I have installed are missing
01:29.25R0b0t1For extra features, hm
01:35.58``Erikthen libz.la shouldn't be looked for at all, it should do -lz to pick up the .so file O.o where does it break?
01:36.33``Erikhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/ if you want to paste teh chunk leading up to the error?
01:37.33R0b0t1http://pastebin.com/m5f5e4afd
01:37.44R0b0t1loves bzflag, but already had a pastebin window open
01:41.53``Erikbzflag.bz == brlcad.org :)
01:42.18``Erikjust haven't coerced brlcad into making the paste.brlcad.org work yet... O.o
01:43.17``Erikhm, so the output at the end of configure said it was going to compile tcl and tk, but use the system libz and libpng?
01:43.42``Erik(and... 7.8.4? where did you get that?)
01:44.08``Erikand 7.12.2? something's seriously screwed up there heh
01:44.43``Erikit'd be best to grab 7.16.0 from sourceforge
01:46.41R0b0t1Hmm
01:46.49R0b0t1I thought I was getting the newest one, :P
01:49.24``Erikhttp://sf.net/projects/brlcad/files/BRL-CAD%20Source/7.16.0/
02:00.24R0b0t1Damn. That's a lot of warnings.
02:01.22``Erik?
02:01.22MaloeranBuilding stuff on Ubuntu is rather annoying, you have to install all these little "dev" packages just to get header files and static libraries
02:01.35brlcadwhere is it in the compile? some portions arent ours to quell
02:01.44``Eriksrc/other specifically
02:03.06MaloeranI really don't understand why the package maintainer felt they should provide separate "-dev" packages to allow actual compilation of software using the libraries
02:03.18MaloeranThe 5kb .h file was just too heavy? Ah gez
02:03.28Maloeranpackage maintainers*
02:03.29``Erikheh
02:03.32``Erikpets fbsd O:-)
02:03.37R0b0t1Ewww
02:03.39R0b0t1Go gentoo.
02:03.49R0b0t1Oh, nothing is fatal yet. Just... lots of warnings... :P
02:05.20MaloeranGentoo is great, just don't ever try to do a major update once it's installed and running :)
02:05.47``Erikpets his fbsd boxen that do major updates without sweating it :)
02:07.08MaloeranYes, the Gentoo crowd kind of messed up the convenience of a software packaging system
02:07.54``Erikthey made a halfassed attempt to copy the bsd one and ended up with typical linux quality... :> *duck*
02:07.57MaloeranI don't want to have to modify obscure symlinks to update my "profile", or modify some files to force the system to install a package it decided I didn't want
02:08.52``Erik(no one fighting? darn.)
02:09.11Maloeran"This package is masked!" .... "Now go figure out what that means and how to bypass my database, because I'm a stubborn packaging system and I don't care about what you think you need."
02:09.40R0b0t1Ello, new error: http://pastebin.com/m2a2e5ac3
02:10.04R0b0t1wat
02:10.16R0b0t1how is emerge --keep-going world obscure
02:10.26MaloeranSorry, 4 years of Gentoo have taken their toll on me
02:10.53Maloeran--keep-going will not install a masked package
02:11.06R0b0t1Oh, well yeah.
02:11.10``Erikthat error says that your xslt/libxml2 stuff is broken
02:11.41``Eriklooks like a 64 vs 32 bit issue?
02:11.46R0b0t1Perhaps
02:11.48R0b0t1I am on 64bit
02:12.06R0b0t1And I borked my synaptic because someone turned my comp of while upgrading.
02:12.15R0b0t1Dunno if that's it, though.
02:12.20R0b0t1Anything you could think of I could try?
02:12.29``Erikhttp://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=610789
02:12.55R0b0t1Wait, what
02:13.09``Erikhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxml2/+bug/151045
02:14.23``Erikhttp://www.mail-archive.com/sage-devel@googlegroups.com/msg10281.html
02:14.30``Erik(amusingly, I went to school with jason grout)
02:15.08MaloeranApparently you got to remove some /usr/local/lib/libz* and reinstall
02:15.18R0b0t1has no /usr/local/lib
02:15.31R0b0t1Well, hmm
02:15.36``Erikit's a "your libz and libxml2 don't match up right" issue
02:15.36R0b0t1It says to remove older versions
02:15.53MaloeranAs it should be, Ubuntu doesn't install anything in /usr/local, some people may manually install stuff there and it generates library conflicts...
02:16.55MaloeranCheck what you got in LD_LIBRARY_PATH, for any strange path
02:17.15R0b0t1Looks normal
02:17.16MaloeranSoftware installed from different sources may modify that path and install libraries in other locations
02:17.41``Erikmebbe try reinstalling libz and libxml2? *shrug*
02:17.43R0b0t1Ah, hm, I see a way to continue my upgrade from where it was terminated. I'll finish that and perhaps come back, I would assume that would fix it.
02:18.15R0b0t1Thanks for your help :). I think it's some deeper-level error though, not really easily fixable at all.
02:18.34``Erikreally? on fbsd, it'd just be "portmanager -u -bu -l" and go have cookies
02:18.37``Erik:D *duck*
02:18.44R0b0t1Ta, off to install gentoo on my slimclient (with only usb ports and svideo... had to plug the SATA into another comp)
02:18.45MaloeranEh, doesn't sound like such a big error to me...
02:18.55R0b0t1Well, big as in, weird.
02:19.30``Erikisn't ther ean "emerge --do-everything-that-was-supposed-to-happen-but-didnt"? :)
02:19.39R0b0t1Yeah, or something like it.
02:19.49R0b0t1Well, but I mean, it doesn't really break anything completely.
02:20.00``Eriklooks at the gentoo manpage at http://funroll-loops.info/
02:20.02R0b0t1But something you linked me to, ``Erik, gave me the solution.
02:20.18``ErikO:-)
02:21.12MaloeranGentoo is weird really. It tries to be very user-friendly in preventing you of doing "bad" stuff like installing packages it decided you didn't need... but it requires one to modify obscure symlinks and files at random occasions
02:21.56MaloeranAs if they only managed to get the bad part at trying to be user-friendly
02:22.54R0b0t1Meh
02:23.05R0b0t1There's times where everything needs a "shut up and listen" button.
02:23.20R0b0t1I've personally gotten REALLY tired of some software not listening :p
02:24.04MaloeranYes, I have developed a... special and strangely emotional relationship with Gentoo's emerge
02:24.09MaloeranAnd it isn't going too well
02:29.22starseekerbrlcad: do I need to update the ChangeLog again?
02:29.45R0b0t1Haha!
02:29.47R0b0t1That fixed it.
02:29.57R0b0t1It was a relic causing trouble from my interrupted upgrade.
02:35.16R0b0t1Really quick question.
02:35.19R0b0t1How do I run brlcad.
02:35.59``Erikum, there're over 400 programs
02:36.05``Erikthe one most people are looking for is "mged"
02:36.33``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Documentation
02:38.01R0b0t1Hmm
02:38.39R0b0t1Bummer, thought it'd have a GUI :p
02:38.42R0b0t1reads the docs
02:38.58``Erikmged is the "gui"
02:40.16R0b0t1I'd be calling it more of a CLI.
02:40.44R0b0t1Ruh-roh, unable to initialize gui
02:44.06R0b0t1``Erik: Heh, got a few more minutes?
02:44.09``Erik?
02:45.55R0b0t1mged starts with
02:45.55R0b0t1MGED unable to initialize gui, reverting to classic mode.
02:45.55R0b0t1attach (nu|X|ogl)[nu]?
02:46.17R0b0t1:-\, and no matter which option I choose, only provides a CLI
02:47.11``Erikhrm, classic mode is a command line interface with a display window (X would be the one you want)
02:47.19``Erikif it's doing that, it means your tk isn't quite right
02:47.41``Erikperhaps try rebuilding BRL-CAD, this time using ./configure --enable-all --enable-optimized
02:47.43R0b0t1tk?
02:47.52``Erikyeah, tcl/tk is how the gui is done
02:47.53R0b0t1ok, then :)
02:48.44starseekerMaloeran: I find once I get /etc/make.conf, /etc/package.mask, /etc/package.unmask, and /etc/package.use set properly it helps a lot
02:49.05starseekerusually tossing something in one of those 4 files handles things
02:50.31brlcadstarseeker: nah, it's close enough
02:50.37R0b0t1http://pastebin.com/m51a51776
02:50.40R0b0t1Another error :0
02:50.57brlcadhm, that'd be an interesting system to debug.. enough tk to link, but not configured properly to initialize
02:51.01R0b0t1But it's in other, I think I remember something about ignoring those :)
02:51.18brlcadyeah, add --disable-jove
02:51.23brlcadyou don't want it anyways
02:51.37R0b0t1Hm, really?
02:51.42brlcadthat build issue is fixed in svn head
02:51.47R0b0t1Oh, I see.
02:52.22R0b0t1wonders what jove did anyway
02:52.29``Erika really shitty old emacs clone
02:53.12``ErikI mean, uh, "jonathons own version of emacs"
02:54.55R0b0t1(XD)
02:55.09R0b0t1I ran the new ./config line, but I still have problems.
02:56.01``Erikbites his tongue O:-)
02:56.11R0b0t1... the same problem
02:56.12R0b0t1:p
02:56.20R0b0t1I added disable-joves though
02:56.53``Erik--disable-jove, not --disable-joves... O.o
02:56.56R0b0t1It provides me no GUI
02:57.13``Erikah, you mean it installed with --enable-all and still has the 'unable to initialize tk' error?
02:57.20R0b0t1I did it right on my ./configure, whooops.
02:57.27brlcadyou have to "make clean" after reconfiguring
02:57.29R0b0t1``Erik: Yeah...
02:57.30R0b0t1Oh
02:57.31R0b0t1Heh
02:57.33brlcadand then rebuild
02:57.56starseekerglares at 3Dconnexion - how the heck can you "license" a device for professional use?
02:58.26``Eriksips the beer he licensed O.o
02:59.04``Erik(it's all good, I'll be done with it in a couple hours and delete my, uh, copy O.o)
02:59.22starseekerSpaceNavigator is awesome, but that makes me very wary of them
02:59.45``Erikhrm, you weren't wary when you saw "a logitech company"? O:-)
03:00.10starseekerI mean, increased support sure, but do they claim that you CAN'T use the device, even unsupported, for commercial activities?
03:00.27R0b0t1It's only cheating if you get caught.
03:00.43``Erikimagines it would be a very short court case
03:00.51starseekerno kidding
03:01.15starseekerI thought the rule with hardware was still "I bought it, it's mine now"
03:01.35starseekerunless 3Dconnexion thinks they're "renting" the things...
03:02.00starseekerhttps://3dconnexionstore.com/itemDetail.asp?itmNo=77826423N
03:02.12starseeker"allows for commercial use..." WTF?
03:02.13``Erikthey're a corporation, they're gonna keep pushing the limits until they get smacked down... I mean, just look at http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/11/06/1639252/Cable-Exec-Suggests-Changing-Consumer-Behavior-Not-Business-Model?art_pos=9&art_pos=9
03:02.47starseekerwonders if they mean "allows" in the sense of "makes possible due to having proper support"
03:02.49R0b0t1The fuck
03:02.51R0b0t1That is weird.
03:03.22``Erikbe amusing to throw that link on hn or something to see the geek riot
03:03.51R0b0t1The world needs more extremists... Because they're the only people who seem to get things done.
03:04.06``Erikheh
03:04.09starseekerif they mean that in the "thou shalt not do anything commercial with this hardware without a proper license" my motivation to write up BRL-CAD support for it goes byebye
03:04.28``Eriksend it to rms, he'll show up at logitech hq, steal the food off their plates and emit body odors :D *duck*
03:07.09starseekerconsiders emailing 3D for clarification... wonder if they'd respond or not
03:07.49starseekeryay, a working merge
03:07.54starseekernow, one final distcheck
03:09.53``Erikhttp://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=14566  heh
03:11.19``Erikzomfg O.O http://tinyurl.com/6d7xo4 I need one
03:11.50starseeker``Erik: heh - that first one could be a Despair poster
03:12.04brlcadmore than likely, commercial use just invalidates support, software driver updates, liability, .. you're on your own
03:12.17``Eriknotes that starseeker hasn't poked around motivatedphotso much
03:12.43starseekerbrlcad: yeah, that's what I figured - they word it very badly though
03:13.00brlcadmore likely, just a way to milk a little more money because businesses will have to get the more expensive one
03:13.27``Erikstill seems low trying to constrain use like that
03:20.23starseekerbrlcad: hmm - I doubt their SDK license is compatible - does that mean we're looking at reverse engineering it?
03:20.43starseekerhttp://www.3dconnexion.com/support/4h.php
03:23.13R0b0t1*sigh*
03:23.30R0b0t1I still get "MGED unable to initialize gui, reverting to classic mode."
03:23.34R0b0t1Anything else I could try?
03:23.50brlcad?ot
03:24.01brlcadstarseeker: it's not unlike the pro/e and unigraphics plugins
03:24.23brlcadwe're not redistributing the sdk
03:24.58starseekerah - so we don't have to have it present in BRL-CAD to make use of the device?
03:26.15starseeker(since this device is available for <$100 even in the worst case, it would be nice to have everything needed to use it with BRL-CAD already in BRL-CAD...)
03:26.19brlcadthose terms would apply to the dev compiling and their use of the sdk -- our code remains ours
03:26.34brlcadeverything is pretty much already in brl-cad
03:27.02brlcadthere are bindings for those 6-dof already, at least event-wise
03:27.28brlcadcould even pass them through as key-bindings and use their simple gui control panel to emulate key stokes
03:28.57brlcadR0b0t1: really?  that's an a clean installed enable-all build??  find that hard to believe
03:29.14brlcadunless you dont' have X running or something
03:29.25R0b0t1Hmm
03:29.27R0b0t1YEah.
03:29.34R0b0t1Pretty sure I have X running. :p
03:30.02R0b0t1brlcad: Yeah, it's all of what you said.
03:30.02R0b0t1:S
03:31.23brlcadif you run fbhelp, what does it output?
03:31.32brlcadand does it flash a window
03:31.53brlcader, display a window
03:32.13brlcadpastebin the fbhelp output
03:32.21brlcad~bzpaste
03:32.22ibothmm... bzpaste is http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/
03:32.25brlcadthere
03:32.32brlcad(the .com sucks)
03:33.18``Erik*cough* make paste.brlcad.org work *cough* O:-)
03:33.42brlcadsomebody hear something?
03:33.48brlcadhm, must have been the wind
03:33.50``Erikwonders if bwish would be a good trial
03:34.22``Erikponders saving wind up all weekend for brlcad's office O.o nahhh, coudln't do that to d-lo
03:34.35brlcadbwish was next .. wanted to see what was compiled first, and verify that X is working first
03:34.53brlcadright, you totally could/would do that to d-lo
03:35.22``Erikok, I couldn't do that to my hiney. O.o
03:35.53R0b0t1brlcad: Sorry
03:35.57R0b0t1And yes, a window appears.
03:36.29R0b0t1brlcad: http://pastebin.com/m4cbd8971
03:37.40starseekerRObOt1:  use pastebin.bzflag.bz
03:39.07R0b0t1http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m50e8a7f
03:40.24brlcadhm, you enabled ogl
03:40.32brlcadso next up, run bwish
03:40.48``Erikogl shouldn't interfer with tk, though
03:40.52brlcaddoes it display a window?
03:41.20brlcadthe embedded dm-ogl might be having trouble initializing if he's got a crap card/config/combo
03:43.18R0b0t1Aha
03:43.22R0b0t1I might have to install tcl
03:43.39brlcadheh, I asked if you installed :)
03:43.48R0b0t1Hmm
03:43.52R0b0t1It is installed, as I thought.
03:44.18brlcadare you running the installed binary or the in-dir compiled binary?
03:44.27R0b0t1Says something about not finding ./tcl8.5.1/library/init.tcl
03:44.32R0b0t1installed
03:45.20starseekerthat's not the version we have in any recent tarball
03:45.50brlcadyeah, that's not ours
03:45.51R0b0t1Eh
03:45.55starseekermaybe a distclean + ./configure --enable-all ?
03:46.40brlcador even starting over with a fresh checkout/download and build/install
03:46.44R0b0t1No rule to make distclean?
03:46.50brlcadsounds like you got something stale
03:47.06starseekerR0b0t1: unless brlcad tells you different, give this a go from your top level brlcad directory:  make distclean && ./autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-all && make
03:47.30starseekerthen (as root unless you have other permissions set up for /usr/brlcad) make install
03:48.07R0b0t1make[1]: *** No rule to make target distclean. stop.
03:48.13starseekerblinks
03:48.19starseekerwhat directory are you in?
03:48.32R0b0t1brlcad-7.16.0, where I unziped the tarball.
03:49.15starseekerum.  ok, just blow away the old directory and re-unzip the tarball
03:49.16brlcadis that where you compiled?
03:49.48brlcadyou did something wrong or you're in the wrong dir or you already ran a partial/full distclean before
03:56.08R0b0t1Well, I re-untar'd, doing everything but the make distclean
03:59.21starseekerhow's it going?
04:02.12*** join/#brlcad Patmcc19 (n=chatzill@174-17-176-182.phnx.qwest.net)
04:02.25R0b0t1starseeker: Chugging along...
04:06.23R0b0t1Oh, docbooks, almost done
04:08.53R0b0t1starseeker: brlcad: Still the same error.
04:10.37R0b0t1I mean, no GUI.
04:10.42starseekerafter a make install
04:10.45R0b0t1yes
04:10.54starseeker/usr/brlcad/bin/mged ?
04:11.17R0b0t1...
04:11.19R0b0t1Hmm
04:11.26R0b0t1That's really odd. Because that works.
04:11.40starseekerdo "which mged"
04:11.52starseekerwithout the quotes
04:12.05R0b0t1/bin/mget
04:12.07R0b0t1aha
04:12.15starseekerbingo
04:12.49R0b0t1I put the brlcad before the others.
04:12.51R0b0t1Now it works :)
04:13.06starseekercool - have fun :-)
04:14.11R0b0t1One quick thing -- how do I make a database?
04:14.18R0b0t1Swear that's my last question.
04:15.10starseekerFile->New... in mged will work
04:15.34R0b0t1Yeah, I was doing that, but it fails with "no database is currently opened
04:15.45starseekeror if you supply a nonexisting name to mged as a command line argument, it will ask if you want to create it
04:15.49starseekere.g. mged test.g
04:16.13starseekeroh, was it now...
04:16.20starseekerchecks
04:16.51starseekerhmm, works in latest svn
04:17.09R0b0t1Oh, there we go.
04:17.11R0b0t1Now it works.
04:17.14R0b0t1Ok, thanks :)
04:17.23R0b0t1starts playing with his brlcad and goes lurking
04:18.34CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36451 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS TODO src/util/Makefile.am src/util/pix-ppm.1): added a man page for the pix-ppm command
04:19.47starseekerwonders if anyone has ever used a SpaceNavigator to play quake ;-)
04:24.07yukonbobR0b0t1: enjoy!!!!!1
04:31.39CIA-37BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36452 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (1295 files in 115 dirs): merge trunk to STABLE from r36077 to HEAD r36450
04:31.51brlcadhah, down to the wire.. nice!
04:32.01brlcad~starseeker++
04:32.12yukonbobthis going to be a point-release?
04:32.51brlcadthey're all point-something :)
04:32.57starseekerretreats for some sleep (die evil cold germs, die...)
04:33.04yukonbob:P pbfffffft
04:33.16brlcadstarseeker: catch some rest this weekend finally/hopefully :)
04:33.19brlcadnice work
04:33.29starseekerthanks - you too!
04:33.31brlcadmerge went a lot easier with those instructions?
04:33.36starseekerFAR easier
04:33.41brlcadgreat
04:34.07starseekershould send that to the subversion guys to add into their standard docs
04:34.12brlcadheh
04:34.26starseekerwill probably reappear in ~20 hours or so
04:34.36brlcadthe bad part is needing to manually keep track of your last merge point
04:34.43brlcadit should figure that part out
04:35.23brlcadunderstandable why it works the way it does, but from a usability standpoint, it can definitely be improved without breaking the philosophy
04:36.32yukonbobwas shocked other day when somebody mentioned Tcl 8.5.0 came out ~2 years ago... which is ~ when I lost a grip on building brlcad on my machine -- now I only relive the glory days of spinning wireframes in my memory...
04:36.58yukonbobsoon, I'll get it up/running again.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091108

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091108

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13:38.30``Erikhah http://lwn.net/Articles/359282/  seems like dejavu, like something from a GS feature discussion I heard a couple days ago O.O
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091109

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091109

00:04.24*** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (n=Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1)
04:23.34``Erikd-lo_: http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=11484
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11:56.52d-lo_``Erik: Nice :)
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23:02.28``Erikuhhhh, ok, /b/ explained... http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=15676
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091110

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091110

00:13.59*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.49.189)
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11:49.29d-lo_mernin all!
11:55.17``Erikfarts in d-lo's general direction
12:03.09CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36453 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: Fixed bug where 'min_dist' wasn't being set in SurfaceTree::getSurfacePoint()
12:32.13CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36454 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (5 files): Added openNURBS brep generation code for Toroidal and Spherical surfacs.
12:35.59CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36455 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/PullbackCurve.cpp:
12:36.00CIA-61BRL-CAD: Added checks around curve sampling counts when trying to resolve seam issues.
12:36.02CIA-61BRL-CAD: Also cleaned up some debug code.
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13:55.03CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36456 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (archer/archer.bat mged/mged.bat util/rtwizard.bat): the batch file numbers didn't get bumped, bump to 7.16.2 for release
13:59.43CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36457 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (14 files in 6 dirs): merge trunk to STABLE from r36450 to HEAD r36456
14:05.18CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36458 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 5 dirs): bump to 7.16.3 in anticipation of 7.16.4 being the next release iteration.
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14:23.54``Erikhm Benchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 26678
14:30.32brlcadnot bad, on par with an oct-core mac
14:32.26``Erikoct-core xeon 3ghz, 64g ram, running rhel5
14:32.35``Erikwe have 3 now
14:32.58brlcadah, okay, so basically same config
14:33.08brlcadas the macs, just catching up
14:33.12``Erik<-- points at the ram
14:33.16``Erikslight advantage :)
14:33.43``Erikless syscall overhead, but more suckage in other aspects *shrug* just another resource
14:33.44brlcadI don't think we've pushed the 16GB barrier yet :)
14:34.32``Erikthinks the marching cubes thing will generate some very ugly meshes pre-decimation, might do the trick
14:37.55brlcadhow long does a ./configure --enable-all default compilation take?
14:45.47``Erikhm, I was building over nfs
14:59.24CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36459 10/brlcad/trunk/bench/run.sh:
14:59.26CIA-61BRL-CAD: if any of the benchmark tests fail, blather loudly that the testing failed with
14:59.28CIA-61BRL-CAD: instructions to the user. this should cause the benchmark to halt compilation
14:59.30CIA-61BRL-CAD: testing (via make check or make bench) and avoids writing out 0 values into the
14:59.32CIA-61BRL-CAD: summary file.
15:08.28``Erikconfigure --enable-all, source on nfs, build on local disk: real 3m7.083s | user 12m45.142s | sys 7m25.372s
15:08.51``Eriktime ( $HOME/src/brlcad/configure --enable-all && make -sj13)
15:09.21brlcadhm, that's actually not too shabby
15:09.25``Erikwoops
15:09.32``Erik16 core machine, I only did 13
15:09.45``Eriknote that the source was all cached up from a previous build, too
15:09.49brlcada 16 core gave  27k vgr?
15:09.54``Erikyeh
15:09.59``Erikit is linux, after all
15:10.01brlcadthat don't sound right
15:10.11``Erikremakes -j17
15:10.19brlcadsure it's not 8-core with hyperthreading?
15:10.20``Erikoh, hah, I don't think I did --enable-optimized for the benchmark
15:10.25brlcadahh
15:10.29``Erikxeon cpu's
15:10.31brlcadthat'd be about right then
15:10.45``Erikkicks the tires some more
15:10.46brlcadwould expect 40-50k
15:11.47``Erikdang step and opennurbs, jacking the build time O.o :D
15:11.59brlcadand the docs ;)
15:12.12``Erikyeah heh
15:12.19brlcadthat would probably be a 1min build without the trio
15:12.27brlcadmaybe 2min
15:12.53``Erikimagine shifting to a single dir build
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15:13.34``Erik-sj31: real 3m27.715s | user 13m49.803s | sys 10m25.144s
15:14.08brlcadyeah, looks like sys is saturated around 13 :)
15:14.13``Erikcache spaz, I imagine
15:14.33brlcador is that enable-optimized?
15:14.55brlcadusually test compile time unoptimized, benchmark optimized
15:15.17brlcadoptimized compile time jacks things up
15:15.26``Erikbuild was unoptimized, am building optimized now for bench
15:16.47CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36460 10/brlcad/trunk/bench/run.sh: let the user know about 'benckmark clean' to remove the plethora of pix files that get generated. make clean mention clobber to remove the log files.
15:18.07CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36461 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: clean up stable sync instructions since it's always safe to grab CURR, and might as well export PREV so the rest can be copy-pasted without change.
15:25.13``Erik'double t diner' kinda confuses me... it's not... really... a diner... more a normal restaurant, half attempting to be upscale, with a couple diner hints to the decor O.o
15:25.32``ErikI mean, c'mon, a diner with a bar? O.O
15:27.48brlcadat least they didn't name it the "Double D Diner" .. that would have probably attracted a totally different clientelle
15:28.05``Erikindeed, I would've gone there much sooner
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19:09.31yukonbobIt's not a diner unless it's got a rotating showcase of lemon marangue pies
19:12.11archivistluvs lemon marangue pie
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19:59.27starseeker``Erik: I keep telling ya, disable the doc build if it bugs you ;-)
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20:31.49CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36462 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep_debug.cpp: additional face details added to "brep brep.s info F 0" command
20:49.02CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36463 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/OpenNurbsInterfaces.cpp: use 3d curve bounding boxes to ensure linear extrusion sized properly, also checks that both the origin and face bounding box are used to determine extents of cylindrical surface
20:56.25``Erikhey, a patch bump, nifty
20:57.41starseekeryeah, should be just about ready to roll
21:18.12``Erikyup, one of them stepped on my laptop again. *sigh*.
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21:18.27starseekerThe Cats Strike?
21:18.54``Erikwonders if changing the ground to something with a high potential would fuck up the circuitry
21:19.07``Erikprobably would on discharge into the cat... :/
21:19.17``Erikmotion sensor spray-bottles I guess
21:19.21starseekerjust put the laptop in a box or something
21:19.42``Erikheh
21:19.49``Erikunless they knocked the power cord loose... O.o
21:19.55starseekeraaah
21:19.56``Erikwill have to discover the damage when he gets home
21:20.09starseekerso, how do you like having cats? ;-P
21:20.23``Erikdepends on if they're being turds or not
21:20.36``Erikwhat's the phrase? "I like kids... other peoples kids..."?
21:22.45``Erik"we can hear you having sex" is such an excellent ssid
21:23.07``Erikhttp://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/epic-fail-wireless-network-fail.jpg
21:24.44starseekerheh:  "First Law of Bicycling: No matter which way you ride, it's uphill and against the wind."
21:26.24starseekerhmm... multithreaded kpathsea library in TeXLive
21:26.46starseekerand the TeXLive build uses automake
21:26.53starseekermust investigate this 2009 release
21:27.05``Erikisn't kpathsea mostly io bound? wouldn't multithreading just screw the pooch for disk read sequencing?
21:27.24starseekerprobably depends on the system
21:27.39starseekerhas a small, slow, crappy system by modern standards
21:27.53``Erikpats his pIII 650mhz with 128m ram
21:28.02``Erikand a massive 20g hdd
21:29.49starseekersights fondly - I remember when 1 Gig was huge and they were talking like 100 Terabytes to back up the entire internet
21:30.19``ErikI was just remarking earlier that I was using a 64gb ram machine and started with a 64kb ram machine...
21:32.24starseekerwonders if 3D printing will be the next big game changer for personal computers
21:32.24*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14EFD2.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:32.49starseeker(real, high quality 3D printing that is)
21:33.59starseekerdoes NOT remember fondly the days trying to fit powerpoint presentations for a class onto 1.4 meg floppies
21:34.14starseekereven zip disks were SO welcome
21:47.35``Erikheh
21:48.39``Erikstarted with 4 track cassettes, then upgraded to 5.25" disks... the 3.5" was insane, you could partition it and shove BUNCHES of 5 1/4 inchers on a single disk, it was almost like a hard drive!
21:49.24yukonbob``Erik: !!650Mhz
21:49.29yukonbobmodel name      : Pentium Pro
21:49.29yukonbobstepping        : 9
21:49.29yukonbobcpu MHz         : 199.313
21:49.45yukonbob<napolean dynamite>lucky</napolean dynamite>
21:50.35``Erikheh, I still have a 120mhz cyrix 5x86 with 48m ram and a 1.6gb disk (with debian on it), does that count? :0
21:50.38``Erik:)
21:50.57``Erikhttp://thegreatgeekmanual.com/images/geekhistory/june/coleco-adam-computer.jpg   <-- was his first 'real' computer
21:51.46``Erikand a book called "games apples play", which meant porting apple basic to the cp/m basic the coleco used
21:52.09``ErikI think that was the name of the book, been a while
21:52.33``Erikhad spiral binding and iirc, drawing of goofy robots
21:52.55``Erikshakes his walker at the whippersnappers
21:54.51yukonbobw00t!! Adam with the printer that was a critical part of the system...
21:54.59yukonbobhad one of those...
21:55.07yukonbobwith it's mock Apple II basic
21:56.41yukonbobhad a game that used the printer... it was a military game that send you communications on the ptr as if they were send "over the wire" from some remote headquarters.
21:56.48``Erikhm, didn't the apple][ use a modified ms-basic? (almost all the microcomputer basics were derived from micro-softs iirc)
21:57.03``Erikprinter, powersupply, whatever
21:57.06yukonbob<-- not actually sure...
21:57.37yukonbobis recalling the gfx via "hgr" and "hplot"
21:57.41yukonbob(iirc)
21:58.04yukonbobhgr ,and hgr2 (?)
21:58.16yukonbobhplot x1, y1 to x2, y2
21:59.09yukonbobapples I used were IIc and IIe
21:59.39``Erik<-- went from the adam to the c64, c128, c64c, then a very brief stint using dos/win31, then linux
22:00.09``Erikbrief like 6 months, after 2 I was telnetting to the isp's linux box, then wiping dos and installing linux...
22:00.17yukonbobno 128, but insert few Amigas in there...
22:00.52yukonbobmy intro to linux was similar, but from Win 95.
22:01.03``Erikreboot the 486 with the special doom2 boot disk (since the box only had 4 megs ram, couldn't have shit like himem loaded...)
22:01.05yukonbobthen compiling NCSA Mosaic to browse the interwebs.
22:01.20``Erikyehhhhh, my 6mo of win31 was in '96, I grew up po'
22:02.17yukonbobgives ``Erik a cookie.
22:02.39yukonbobnow look at you... all grown up and p0wning *BSD
22:02.55``Erikheh
22:03.05``Erikfbsd is hardly a pricey toy
22:03.18yukonbobtrue...
22:05.00``Erik<-- trying to decide if he wants to buy a sheeva openrd-client and a 1-1.5tb usb drive, or get a cheap dull box or something :/
22:06.11yukonbobsheeva == more smiles, I'm sure.
22:07.09``Erikyeh, mebbe I'll get both, but I want to replace the p3
22:12.24CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36464 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/keep.c:
22:12.26CIA-61BRL-CAD: BAH! .. bu_optind has to be manually reset before bu_getopt(), otherwise we'll
22:12.28CIA-61BRL-CAD: get whatever previous bu_optind there was. this should fix the problem victor
22:12.30CIA-61BRL-CAD: noticed in sf bug 2890876 ( Keep command in mged is creating a file named keep
22:12.32CIA-61BRL-CAD: ).
22:15.41CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36465 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/src/libged/keep.c:
22:15.43CIA-61BRL-CAD: apply the initialization fix so 'keep' isn't broken. change should merge
22:15.45CIA-61BRL-CAD: cleanly with the previous trunk sync revision. slipping in to the release only
22:15.47CIA-61BRL-CAD: because it's not been tagged yet (and is a one-liner safe initialization).
22:17.24CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36466 10/brlcad/tags/rel-7-16-2/: tagging release 7.16.2
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23:37.57CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36467 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/human.c: looks like human has the same problem as kill, need to init bu_getopt()
23:42.07CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36468 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (cad_boundp.c cad_parea.c mged.c): few more bu_optind init-to-zeros just for sanity sake (as they're the first calls in their respective main() funcs)
23:57.17CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36469 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: sf.net FRS changed slightly. path is different as our whole file release hierarchy is now traversable. should reorganize sometime soon to take advantage of this change.. until then, say what it is now.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091111

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091111

08:06.11*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@157.26.202.84.customer.cdi.no)
11:24.46brlcadhm, golang is pretty nifty
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13:05.24``Erik<PROTECTED>
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14:48.38``Eriklooks at go and scratches his chin
14:51.41``Eriki,j=j,i; cute
14:53.01``Erikobject system is almost reminiscint of clos or something
14:53.22``Erikthe 'go' keyword looks fairly similar to jabba threading to me
14:57.36``Erikinstalls mercurial
15:36.28mafmlet's go and reimplement brlcad in go
15:36.30mafm:P
15:42.26brlcadheh
15:42.58brlcadwould be interesting to implement a raytracer in it
15:53.57CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36470 10/brlcad/branches/trimnurbs-branch/: the trimnurbs-branch branch is no longer necessary, served its purpose. openNURBS work is merged onto trunk and far advanced from the branch.
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16:05.04mafmthe syntax is less readable than in C, it seems to me
16:05.34mafmwith all the indices of the arrays, it can be quite confusing for things like the raytracer
16:18.20brlcadtrivial differences
16:19.26brlcadthe interesting parts would be leverging the concurrency model and interfaces
19:42.33``Eriklack of pointer math seems like one of those "protect the masses btu inhibit the skilled programmers" moves
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20:21.33*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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20:54.35``Eriknifty /dev/da0s1   1418376502   170878 1304735504     0%    /mnt/da0s1
21:10.28brlcad1.5TB?
21:17.10``Erikyup
21:18.00``Erikwent out shopping today
21:18.10``Erikthat puppy is on a 650mhz p3 right now O.o
21:50.59*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-185-57.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
22:01.24yukonbob``Erik: is there any issue w/ firmware being able to address such a device?
22:11.52CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36471 10/brlcad/branches/ (6 files in 6 dirs): remove all of the imported cvs branches, none of them are active nor is it desirable that they be active (with backported changes). so obliterate them to the bowels of history.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091112

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091112

00:58.11``Erikyukonbob: I imagine the bios wouldn't be able to, but fbsd (and linux, and windows, and haiku, and...) don't use the bios after the bootloader starts up
01:02.41yukonbob``Erik: ya -- that's what I thought, but there's confusion surrounding that so I get conflicting messages...
01:03.14yukonbobso, may require special consideration as a potential boot device, otherwise, all's well
01:03.18yukonbobnice...
01:12.46``ErikI doubt the p3 has the ability to boot from usb?
01:12.52``Erikso *shrug*
01:13.00``Erikseems to be working fine as a secondary drive
01:17.42yukonbobre: USB  -- probably --- again, bios issue, but I'm saying if it were on PCI SATA controller, for example... (assuming this is a SATA disk).
01:18.02yukonbobwatching Rob Pike talk about "go"
01:18.06yukonbob*golang
01:20.43``Eriknot to be confused with go!
01:21.08``Erik<-- hasn't gone sata on any of his home machines, is still all pata
01:21.29Ralith``Erik: how the hell do you get 1.5TB on a p3?
01:21.38RalithI can't imagine the mobo being sufficiently up to date
01:21.42yukonbobhahaha
01:21.48yukonbobRalith: read scrollback ;)(
01:21.52Ralithah, I see.
01:21.53yukonbob* ;)
01:23.32yukonbobhrmm... HP to buy 3Com $2.7B
01:25.50``Erikamusing, 3com was yet another company started after xerox ignored what came out of PARC, being sold for 40% of xerox's market cap
01:29.37Ralithheh
01:35.01yukonbobnow bob metcalfe can re-stuff his $1000-bill matress
01:35.23yukonbobwith gold bricks :P
01:37.27``Erikcan't be comfortable... but this is a man who eats blended paper *shrug*
01:44.44yukonbobmade of $1000 bills?
01:45.09yukonbobsure doesn't like apple laptops, nor OS X
01:45.40yukonbobgimme BSD on a thinkpad...
01:47.10``Eriknah, according to his wikipedia page, he predicted some major meltdown of the internet in the mid 90's, said he'd eat his words if it didn't happen... so he printed up his whitepaper on it, threw it in the blender and ate it on stage somewhere
01:47.46``Erik<-- is comfortable with osX as a platform for running firefox, ssh and wow O.o
01:48.09``Erikjust a handful of fixes to make it a little more BSD-ish and it rolls ok
01:49.08yukonbobrunning 10.4 on an old (g4) powerbook
01:49.30``Erikg4 powerbook was a decent machine, I thought
01:49.54``Erikre-enable the root account, sudo ln -s /Users /home, install macports, ... :)
01:50.31``ErikI'm using xquartz instead of apples x11.app
01:50.45``Erikand xterm instead of terminal.app
01:51.43``Erikdefaults -write org.x.x11 -bool wm_ffm true
03:57.10*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
05:08.48starseeker``Erik: I knew rice paper had to be good for something...
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11:23.03d-lo1.5TB on a p3 650.  Nice :)  Sounds kinda like a 3-cyl in a tractor trailer!
12:10.43CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36472 10/brlcad/branches/ (34 files in 17 dirs): rename from dmtogl-branch to just dmtogl. the -branch was a cvs convention that svn takes care of with a branches parent dir. not clear why the windows files are marked as modified as they still have CRLF line endings
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13:38.46CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1642 10/wiki/Talk:Main_Page:
13:41.13CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1643 10/wiki/Talk:Main_Page:
13:41.43brlcadno objections whatsoever..
13:48.54CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1644 10/wiki/Talk:Main_Page: reply to ssd
13:57.27CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1645 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_3ptarb: example of removing prefix from category
13:58.47CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1646 10/wiki/Category:MGED: every category should have a description of some sort?
14:03.21CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1647 10/wiki/Talk:Main_Page:
14:26.08``Erikbrlcad: lee is whining about not getting dns info
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14:52.04CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36473 10/isst/trunk/src/ (gui.c main.c): constify some, quell warnings
14:58.31CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1648 10/wiki/Documentation: lift this page up in the category list
14:59.50CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1649 10/wiki/Category:Development: New page: [[category:documentation]]
15:00.30CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1650 10/wiki/Developing_applications:
15:04.21CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1651 10/wiki/Category:Design_Documents: New page: [[category:documentation]]
15:05.42CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1652 10/wiki/Developing_applications:
15:09.17CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1653 10/wiki/Category:Development: category already existed? oops
15:10.35CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1654 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Commands:
15:11.59CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1655 10/wiki/Category:Commands: New page: [[category:documentation]]
15:12.16``Erik"two go's considered harmful" *snicker*
15:13.10CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1656 10/wiki/MGED:
15:15.07CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1657 10/wiki/Hex: category, wikify format
15:15.28CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1658 10/wiki/Third_Party_Utilities:
15:18.37CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1659 10/wiki/Mged: merge back what I added to [[MGED]]
15:18.45CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1660 10/wiki/MGED: merging with [[Mged]] although the merge should go the other way prob (someone with more access can delete this page and move the other)
15:20.24CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1661 10/wiki/Fb-png:
15:21.15CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1662 10/wiki/Loadview:
15:22.45CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1663 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Proposal_Evaluation: [[category:Google Summer of Code]]
15:23.07CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1664 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas:
15:23.33CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1665 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Flyers:
15:23.50CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1666 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Expectations:
15:23.59CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1667 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Checklist:
15:24.34CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1668 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Application_Guidelines:
15:25.14CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1669 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Acceptance:
15:25.31CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1670 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009:
15:26.54CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1671 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2008/Project_Ideas:
15:27.26CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1672 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2008:
15:27.30CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1673 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code:
15:27.41CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1674 10/wiki/Rtwizard:
15:27.56CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1675 10/wiki/Rthide:
15:28.04CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1676 10/wiki/Rtedge:
15:28.11CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1677 10/wiki/Rt:
15:28.29CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1678 10/wiki/Pix-png:
15:29.45CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1679 10/wiki/Tops:
15:30.02CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1680 10/wiki/Pl-fb:
15:30.15CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1681 10/wiki/Saveview:
17:48.40*** join/#brlcad parigaudi (n=quassel@pd95b7f5e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
19:58.00*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1128564792.dsl.bell.ca)
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20:26.52CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1682 10/wiki/Talk:Main_Page:
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091113

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091113

01:28.09*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
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02:37.24``Erik<PROTECTED>
06:04.49*** join/#brlcad Emton (n=ya@47.18.28.72.cpe.echoes.net)
06:05.06Emtonhey all
06:05.30Emtonbeen trying to compile this bad boy on cygwin
06:05.58Emtonany know if some of the tools like pix-png are available for download
06:06.38Emtonmake[1]: *** No rule to make target `../src/conv/asc2g', needed by `operators.as
06:06.45Emtonahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
08:35.55*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ)
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14:48.31CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36474 10/brlcad/branches/rel8/ (1264 files in 100 dirs): Sync rel8 to latest trunk as of r36469
15:05.52*** join/#brlcad mafm_ (n=mafm@217.Red-83-38-34.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
15:20.19CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Qr9ken26z9dh24g 07http://brlcad.org * r1683 10/wiki/User:Qr9ken26z9dh24g: New page: Was to be sure rather short and thin himself. Her skin was light brown her face and torso out of some adolescent male's fantasies the eyes unnaturally large the lips too thick and sensuous...
15:23.55``Erikhm, I don't seem to have wiki "sysop" privs
16:09.15brlcad``Erik: you should
16:09.27brlcadwhat's your user?
16:10.58``ErikErik
16:11.13``Erikbrlcad: gonna be in the area in ~30m? lunch?
16:12.25CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/rights: changed group membership for User:Erik from (none) to sysop: add to sysops
16:12.53CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/rights: changed group membership for User:Erik from sysop to sysop, bureaucrat
16:13.20CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/rights: changed group membership for User:Starseeker from (none) to sysop, bureaucrat
16:14.00CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/rights: changed group membership for User:Mafm from (none) to sysop, bureaucrat
16:14.21CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/rights: changed group membership for User:Rossberg from (none) to sysop, bureaucrat
16:15.56CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/delete:
16:15.58CIA-61BRL-CAD: deleted "[[User:Qr9ken26z9dh24g]]": content was: 'Was to be sure rather short
16:16.00CIA-61BRL-CAD: and thin himself. Her skin was light brown her face and torso out of some
16:16.04CIA-61BRL-CAD: adolescent male's fantasies the eyes unnaturally...' (and the only contributor
16:16.06CIA-61BRL-CAD: was '[[Special:Contributions/Qr9ken26z9dh24g|Qr9ken26z9dh24g]]')
16:16.16CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:Qr9ken26z9dh24g]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled, e-mail blocked): Inserting nonsense/gibberish into pages
16:18.22CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/rights: changed group membership for User:Dloman from (none) to sysop, bureaucrat
16:20.55mafmbrlcad: sysop, bureaucrat? don't insult me!
16:36.28brlcadhaha
16:36.40brlcadi have no idea what that bureaucrat group is for
16:37.15brlcadcan't wait to announce this next big release
16:38.36*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || #brlcad logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || Release 7.16.2 posted (20091106) .. full binary release!
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17:29.01CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36475 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/AttrGroupsDisplayUtility.tcl: Mark the selected item using a grey background.
17:30.57CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36476 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Component pick now prints a string to the command window instead of popping up another window.
17:53.59CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36477 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal/compErase.png: Adding a new image for component erase button.
17:54.56CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36478 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Windows/compErase.png: Adding a new image for component erase button.
17:55.37CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36479 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal_Large/compErase.png: Adding a new image for component erase button.
18:06.52CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36480 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Include reference to compErase.png
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18:11.14CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36481 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/Ged.tcl: Added a new method: clear_mouse_ray_callback_list. Also, now catching call to shoot_ray.
18:13.19CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36482 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Added a component erase mode.
18:27.55louipcwhoa momma!
18:31.29``Erikhm, tk86 uses cocoa natively on osX
19:35.09yukonbobis curren svn head 7.16.2?
19:35.49yukonbob*current
19:56.37*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@d142-058-091-126.wireless.sfu.ca)
20:26.02starseekeryukonbob: not quite - there are a few new changes
20:26.04starseekerbut pretty close
20:32.27``Erikhm, water on the moon
20:35.33starseekergreat, another excuse for a new bottled water brand
20:35.54starseeker"New - Moon Water!  With a flavor out of this world!"
20:36.54*** join/#brlcad Emton (n=ya@47.18.28.72.cpe.echoes.net)
20:37.19Emtonhello?
20:38.20starseekerhowdy
20:40.42*** join/#brlcad parigaudi (n=quassel@pd95b7f5e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
20:44.07``Erikheh, starseeker: http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1443060&cid=30090924
20:44.39starseeker:-D
20:45.03starseekerfor the record, I am not PolarBearFire and I didn't see that comment ahead of time :-P
20:46.42yukonbobhttp://random-state.net/log/3467117369.html
20:46.50yukonbob^-- raytracing in lisp
20:47.01``Erikyup, already downloaded it
20:47.13yukonbobso you nerds have something to fantasize about
20:47.29``Erikhttp://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=940568
20:47.36starseekersweeet
20:48.34yukonbobMIT licensed, too
20:51.59CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36483 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c: Fixed a bug in go_rt_gettrees that allowed access beyond the argv's capacity.
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20:57.48starseekercool - reverse engineering a fly to get motion identification algorithms
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21:19.58Emtonhey
21:20.08Emtonanyone still here
21:20.09Emton?
21:20.22yukonbob"still"?
21:20.22yukonbobyes
21:20.32Emtonbeen trying to convert the pix via ImageMagick
21:20.43Emtonconvert seems to give me problems tho
21:20.53Emtonhave any of you tried it?
21:21.06yukonbobcan you ellaborate, Emton
21:21.25*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@d142-058-091-126.wireless.sfu.ca)
21:21.39Emton>convert -size 200x200 -depth 8 my.pix my.png
21:21.55Emtonconvert: Unexpected end-of-file
21:22.27Emtonwhoops, old paste my.pix -> my.rgb
21:22.31``Erikconvert won't know pix
21:22.39``Erikuse pix-png
21:22.52Emtonhehe, yea i renamed to my.rgb
21:23.13Emtonit is rgb raw format no?
21:23.33Emtoni would use pix-png but it won't compile on cygwin for me
21:24.21``Erikhrm, what does it do when you try to compile it?
21:24.27``Erikmissing png?
21:24.45Emtonproblems w/dynamic constants yada yada..
21:25.08Emtonthe libfb doesn't have a *.la and other things
21:25.17``Erikdoesn't have yiddishcc, doesn't know the yadda error
21:25.18Emtonsomething is probably screwed up in my env
21:25.31``Eriksounds like libtool isn't clicking right
21:25.38``Erikin which case, rt shouldn't have compiled...
21:25.54Emtonno it didn't, i'm using the Win Binaries to run it
21:26.02Emtoni just tried to compile to get pix-png
21:26.06``Erikah, those didn't come with pix-png?
21:26.15Emtonbefore i wiped it w/a make distclean i had a lot of it
21:26.22Emtonno
21:26.37Emtonpix-png is not in the win bin's
21:27.41``Eriklame
21:27.51Emtonyep
21:28.19Emtoni can load the pix into adobe elements and convert but i'd rather use imagemagick if it's possible
21:34.47``Erikhm, imagemagick changed their manpages, I'm wondering if the "RGB" format they list is the old SGI format that has a header on it
21:35.43``Erikwell, n, here's the format page, hrm
21:39.01Emtonhttp://www.imagemagick.org/script/formats.php
21:39.10EmtonRGB  RW  Raw red, green, and blue samples  Use -size and -depth to specify the image width, height, and depth. To specify a single precision floating-point format, use -define quantum:format=floating-point. Set the depth to 64 for a double precision floating-point format.
21:39.49Emtonaccording to what i've read this is what the pix format should be with 3 channels
21:40.23*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@d142-058-080-053.wireless.sfu.ca)
21:42.01Emtonaccording to a tip i saw from *brlcad*, you can cat something like "P6 512 512 255" and rename to pnm
21:42.17Emtonthis not working for me either tho
21:45.58Emtonand ya, first cat > file ..header.. then cat my.pix >> file
21:51.58Emtonanyway i guess nobody know since they probably have pix-png going good but imagemagick scripting is useful for animations anyhow
21:52.08Emtonif i find the answer i'll post it back up here
21:54.07brlcadnot quite that simple, I believe the P6 has to be on a separate line?
21:54.42Emtonhmm.. maybe that's why it didn't work - i'll try it
21:54.50brlcadthere is also already pix-ppm ...
21:55.04brlcadpix-[tab][tab]
21:55.13Emtonhehe.. yea, i have problems w/my cyg-win environment
21:55.23Emtoncannot compile much
21:55.58brlcadhm, pix-ppm only depends on libbu, which is one of the first of our libs to compile
21:56.40Emtoni would tell what worked and didn't but i did a 'make distclean'
21:57.00Emtonlast night, then downloaded a bunch of new libraries and it now goes nowhere
21:57.38EmtonGOT IT!!!
21:58.11Emtonconvert -depth 8 -size 200x200 -channel RGB rgb:moss.raw moss.png
21:58.18Emtondoes the trick i was looking for
21:58.33brlcadEmton: was going to just say that, heh
21:58.34Emtonwhat pix-png i suppose would do, i think IM can flip it too
21:58.40Emtonlol
21:58.45Emtonthanks anyway
21:59.08brlcadthat imagic magick has support for raw formats as well, they just call it 'rgb' to not confuse it with the newer "raw" camera formats
21:59.38Emtonyea, i read the descript and it looked similar enough
21:59.40brlcadrgba if we added an alpha channel (which I so hope we do soon)
22:00.10Emtonyea, would be good but i think IM can convert and even swap a bg color for alpha
22:00.16Emtonfor now anyway
22:00.27brlcadso can we
22:00.50Emtonyea, its powerful i don't know half of it
22:01.04brlcadpix format predates alpha channelling, so most all of our tools have a concept of a background color that is used as the alpha channel
22:01.27brlcadjust user-specified instead a convenient separate per-pixel channel
22:01.33Emtonthat's good, yea i guess you need that to RT correctly
22:01.50brlcadyou really want a full channel, though, for proper blending and edge aliasing
22:02.06Emtoni see, so perhaps not too hard to break it out to RGBA
22:02.58Emtondo you know if the ANIM menu works?
22:03.08Emtonhaven't found any documentation or a clue as to how to use it
22:03.12brlcadsaw someone use it a few months back
22:03.17brlcadi'm just not very versed in it
22:03.39Emtonthat's cool, is there a website?
22:03.40brlcadand yeah.. docs for it are limited.. there are some old docs about it somewhere, but I don't think have been uploaded anywhere
22:04.25Emtonoh, yea i know some of this stuff like that tip you gave i only found thanks to our friendly (not sarcastic) ibot dropper
22:04.57brlcadibot dropper?
22:05.06Emtonhere to be exact: http://purl.rikers.org/%23brlcad/20090512.html.gz
22:05.36Emtonwhoops, thats a new one but he's got a good collection of channel copies
22:05.55Emtonyes, i think that ibot you see on the right is rikers bot
22:06.03Emtonto record the channel
22:06.11Emtonhe should pop a search engine on there..
22:06.22brlcadit is rikers' bot
22:06.25Emtonso ppl.. uh.. don't feel like crawling his site
22:06.41Emtonok yea, i thought probly was
22:07.15brlcadprobably the most comprehensive multi-channeled bot on irc with the largest factoid database
22:07.23brlcadreally should clean up that website :)
22:07.32brlcadsearch for starters .. definitely
22:08.13Emtonyea, i guess u can't really complain about er.. spidering w/out having that
22:08.24brlcadwe probably should create an extensive to have a drupal module just suck them in daily so they're indexed with the read of our content
22:08.34brlcadwrapped in something a little more pretty
22:08.47Emtonwould be good
22:09.06brlcadgoogle goes into .gz files, so you can just add site:rikers.org to search the existing logs
22:09.18Emtoni also found this, http://ftp.arl.army.mil/~mike/
22:09.27brlcadyeah, that's mike's old page
22:09.28Emtonsite of original BRLCAD architect
22:09.31Emtonyea
22:09.42Emtondidn't know he was the ping author
22:09.44Emtonhehe
22:09.48brlcadI'm going to move that onto brlcad.org here some day
22:10.59Emtonyea, it would be good to snag it before the mil wipes by accident or o/w
22:11.35brlcadit wouldn't be by accident, but there has already been issues with the potential "o/w" reasons
22:12.03Emtonreally? is there pushback about having BRLCAD in public domain?
22:12.38brlcadI already have a dump of all of the old ftp website, more just a matter of copying the files into place
22:13.02brlcadbrl-cad is open source, not the same as being in the public domain :)
22:13.24Emtonthat's cool, as long as you have them perhaps u can just dump them for now so others can view them (perhaps painfully)
22:13.29brlcadand that question has little to do with mike's old website ;)
22:14.00Emtonheh, this old website i posted?
22:14.10brlcadright, his homepage
22:14.16Emtonthey don't like the pictures and extra information or something?
22:14.39brlcadI won't/don't speak for "them" :)
22:14.59``Erikshakes fist at "them"
22:15.18Emtonhehe, well - seems good people have "accidents" too often
22:16.36Emtonalrigth guys, back to wrok for me trying to make some BRL animations
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091114

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091114

00:54.24*** join/#brlcad akafubu (n=akafubu@unaffiliated/akafubu)
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02:03.45``Erikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy5JwYOlgvY
02:42.25*** join/#brlcad Emton (n=ya@47.18.28.72.cpe.echoes.net)
02:42.37Emtonhow d
02:43.55Emton"/usr/bin/m4:configure.ac:2030: cannot create temporary file for diversion: Permission denied"
02:44.12Emton??
02:46.18Emtoni pulled the latest from SVN, trying to run autogen.sh on cygwin
02:47.44Emtoni put --verbose up to: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m334e4091
02:48.12Emtonany help appreciated!!
04:39.00Emtonis there a list of required packages for cygwin?
05:25.38Emtondon't ask me how... but
05:25.41EmtonBRL-CAD Release 7.16.2, Build 20091113
05:25.42EmtonElapsed compilation time: 2 hours, 23 minutes, 33 seconds
05:25.42EmtonElapsed time since configuration: 4 hours, 5 minutes, 37 seconds
05:25.42Emton---
05:25.42EmtonRun 'make install' to begin installation into /usr/brlcad
05:25.42EmtonRun 'make benchmark' to run the BRL-CAD Benchmark Suite
05:25.44Emtonmake[1]: Leaving directory `/cygdrive/c/programs/brlcad-7.16.2/brlcad-7.16.2'
05:26.14Emton<PROTECTED>
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05:29.33louipcerr
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06:39.21brlcadheh
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15:36.43Emtonhow
16:02.13brlcadheh, so you got it to compile, eh?
16:02.50brlcadand experienced the pains of cygwin I/O indirection :)
18:32.02Emtonyea, but not sure it was that smooth
18:32.19Emtontrying out pix-png i get "Short read" errors
18:32.42Emtonregardless of flags and sizes, i used the pix files from the distro
18:33.01Emtoni'm thinking something is amiss
18:58.06``Erikcygwin is a hackish attempt to get a sane environment on a suck os... it is... not... optimal...
18:58.10``Erik:)
18:58.36``Erikrt -o tank.pix /path/to/ktank.g tank
18:58.48``Erikpix-png -s 256 tank.pix > tank.png
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20:10.38brlcad-s 256 ... not right for that rt line, default is 512
20:12.55``Erikoh, whatever
20:12.56``Erik:)
20:14.29``Erikis starting to think that the more recent X11's on osX are just plain fucked up
20:14.50``Erikand that the rotate bug might be a real apple X11 dealie
20:17.55brlcadI don't think so
20:18.18brlcadthe fact that all events are perfectly fine until you zoom in/out is highly suspect
20:18.36``Erikhm
20:18.48*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
20:18.54``Erikmy experience has been that even from a raw instantiation, it catches down instead of up
20:19.25``Erikisst has starting experiencing issues similar to BRL-CAD with no code change
20:19.29brlcadtry any of the shift grips
20:19.35brlcadthey all work fine at first
20:19.56``Erik<-- far more familiar with isst than esoteric mged shit
20:19.58brlcaduntil the first zoom change, then it's hosed from then on
20:20.18brlcade.g., shift+click-drag
20:20.27brlcadshould spin it around
20:20.40brlcadcontrol+click-drag
20:20.52brlcadone rotates, one pans
20:22.37``Erikwe have a machine going out with the most recent updates to isst, it works ok. all of my "connected" machines refuse to acknowledge held keys.
20:22.40``Eriksomething is going on
20:49.19brlcadshrug, i've not looked into the problem that deeply myself to feel certain on the actual coding issue yet other that what mged does
20:49.43brlcadwould need a simplified test case, stepped debugging, logging, etc, to say one more
20:49.53brlcads/one/anything/
20:50.01brlcadotherwise, just speculation
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091115

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091115

00:02.16*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-185-57.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
02:35.37Emtonheh.. that's weird -> Erik
02:35.45Emtonit worked!
02:36.08Emtoni built the tank.pix w/rt and was able to pix-png it
02:36.19Emtonflag of course as brlcad mentioned is 512
02:36.37Emtonweird, since I was able to convert my other images via IM
02:36.45Emtonthus i'm pretty sure my flags were right
02:36.50Emtoni'll have to check..
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14:27.18CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1696 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_l: rm dup ls from see also, category sort key
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14:30.19CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1701 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_facetize:
14:31.44CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1702 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_setview:
14:36.33CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1703 10/wiki/FAQ: [[category:Getting started]]
14:37.07CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1704 10/wiki/Category:Getting_started: New page: [[category:documentation]]
14:37.28CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1705 10/wiki/Documentation:
14:40.00CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1706 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives:
14:42.11CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1707 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Commands: This page would be better if it was formatted like [[MGED Commands]]
14:43.00CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1708 10/wiki/Talk:BRL-CAD_Commands: New page: This page would be much better if it was formatted similar to [[MGED Commands]], marking commands to their purpose or categorizing them or something. As is, it's incomplete and redundant....
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15:21.42CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1742 10/wiki/Category:Projects: [[Category:Design Documents]] is prob not the best parent category but it sorta fits
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16:08.11CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1783 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_q: replace alias with redirect to the real command
16:08.56CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1784 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_exit: replace alias with redirect to the real command
16:09.07CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1785 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_quit:
16:10.18CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1786 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_opendb: fmt
16:15.04CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1787 10/wiki/MGED_Commands:
16:15.26CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1788 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_t:
16:15.38CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1789 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_t_muves:
16:15.47CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1790 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_units:
16:15.59CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1791 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_vars:
16:16.05CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1792 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_vdraw:
16:16.11CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1793 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_wcodes:
16:16.18CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1794 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_whatid:
16:16.28CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1795 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_xpush:
16:16.38CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1796 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_zoom:
16:17.08CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1797 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_nmg_collapse:
16:18.40CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1798 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_q: Redirecting to [[MGED CMD quit]]
16:19.15CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1799 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives:
16:20.19CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1800 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_exit: Redirecting to [[MGED CMD quit]]
16:40.28brlcadgo go gadget ssd
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19:12.17CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1801 10/wiki/Talk:BRL-CAD_Commands:
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22:54.54Emtonanybody know how to quickly clean up a rickety cygwin env?
22:55.09Emtonmy automake is mess#$)*d up
22:55.33Emtoncan't compile anything using automake
22:55.35Emton=(
22:55.51Emtonthought it was brlcad but IM doesn't go either
22:56.17Emtoni hacked libpkg to pieces because of sockets but too much symbol replacemnt missing
22:57.02Emtonany got a full cygwin binary up for download?
22:57.04Emtonhehe
22:57.55Emtonanyway i've kludges to do all the things but is messy, wish i had one good clean env w/all the tools
22:58.47Emtonnone of the win distros have tabinterp, pix-png and...
22:59.22starseekerEmton: what about installing Linux? ;-)
22:59.44Emtonhehe.. yea, well it's not my comp really
22:59.51starseekeronly suggestion I can make with cygwin is to do a wipe and reinstall, which isn't a quick fix
23:00.23Emtoni know but i have to use setup to remove each one, can I just rip the directories or will i have problems?
23:00.23starseekerinstall virtualbox and run Linux in that :-{
23:00.27starseekerer :-P
23:00.48Emtonyea, i wish there was a knoppix disc w/brl-cad hehe
23:01.01Emtonnot that my comp is powerful enough to run it anywayz
23:01.08starseekernot sure - see if the cygwin site has any docs about whether they muck with Windows registry stuff
23:01.30Emtonyea, i think i did in the past i'll have to check again i guess
23:01.51Emtoni wish i could find what's wrong but it looks like it should work
23:02.04Emtonno real complaints
23:02.25Emtoni saw a thread by David Korn regarding the socket models conflicting
23:02.29starseekerhas very little experience with cygwin, and none in the last 4 years
23:02.31Emtoni think that's what's doing it
23:02.55Emtonheh, well it's linux for windows pretty much
23:03.09Emtonbut problems w/shared libs, sockets, etc hehe
23:04.00starseekerEmton: might try this:  http://www.colinux.org/
23:04.06Emtoni thought it would run smooth by now, i haven't delved into it in a few years now
23:04.45yukonbobstarseeker: 7.16.2 official yet?
23:04.52starseekeryukonbob: yep
23:05.02starseekersource tarball is up for download now, IIRC
23:05.06Emtonheh, konichiwa
23:05.21Emtonabout the only japonese i know tho
23:05.23yukonbobsees /topic, but only noticed single non-significant looking change in svn update
23:05.43yukonbobstarseeker: cool. thx
23:06.10Emtoni'm getting it now, let you know how it goes
23:06.32starseekerEmton: that's another one I've never tried, so I'll be curious
23:07.08Emtonyea, in the install now - i'm choosing debian as the root image
23:07.10Emtonwe'll see
23:08.00starseekerEmton: if that doesn't work, this looks like it might be in the same vein:  http://topologi-linux.sourceforge.net
23:08.41Emtonhmm.. looks interesting
23:09.06Emtoni wonder if coop linux is going to slice up my disc o_O
23:09.26Emtonthis new one you mention looks good, more safe ;)
23:09.50Emtonbut coop is installing now, we'll see what happens
23:09.53Emtonthnx the tips
23:10.19starseekernp - you're still in unstable turf though - afaik no one has ever tried BRL-CAD in either of those environments ;-)
23:11.20Emtonheh, first for everything - i'll let you know what happens
23:12.32Emtonhehe, looks like not much else been tested on it either
23:12.35EmtonWARNING:
23:12.35Emton<PROTECTED>
23:12.35Emton(e.g, stable setups), it is still meant for testing purposes only.
23:12.35EmtonThis means that running it may crash the host (Windows or Linux system).
23:19.42Emtonyea.. this thing takes some tweaking
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23:22.05Emtonif anyone else want to try this i suggest go here, should be easier: http://colinux.wikia.com/wiki/Installation_out_of_the_box
23:22.40Emtonhehe.. lists the other one you mentioned <- starseeker
23:30.34Emtonanybody see 9/11 coincidences movie?
23:30.58Emtonjust saw it.. pretty well done
23:31.27Emtonhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odp1FO0Vmuw
23:32.59Emtonalright yea, topologilinux seems easier to use, good call
23:33.30Emtonthe other way looks like u need to creat u own fs's
23:37.11Emton~seen yukonbob_
23:37.14ibotyukonbob_ <i=1000@s142-179-54-198.bc.hsia.telus.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 61d 6h 34m 2s ago, saying: 'kanzure: swig != interface. Is interface generator...'.
23:37.14Emtonheh
23:37.40Emton~seen bar
23:37.41ibotbar <n=nottelli@rrcs-24-123-67-4.central.biz.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowhead, 180d 56m 36s ago, saying: '^^'.
23:40.27Emton~seen Emton
23:40.28ibotemton is currently on #brlcad (1d 8h 4m 18s). Has said a total of 62 messages. Is idling for 1s, last said: '~seen Emton'.
23:42.29yukonbob~seen yukonbob
23:42.30ibotyukonbob is currently on #brlcad. Has said a total of 1 messages. Is idling for 1s, last said: '~seen yukonbob'.
23:42.58yukonbob! 1 msg -- liar.
23:43.55Emtonhehe, ibot is the elephant in the room
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091116

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091116

00:10.35Emton~seen R0b0t1
00:10.37ibotr0b0t1 is currently on #bzflag (21m 47s) #brlcad (21m 47s), last said: 'Ok, thanks :)'.
00:10.57R0b0t1omgwtf stalker!
00:11.03Emtonlol
00:11.09Emtonnot me!! it's the ibot
00:11.37Emtonit's watching us, thought u might be another bot
00:11.39Emtonlol
00:11.42Emtonguess not
00:13.53Emtonhave seen this movie, 9/11 Coincidences? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odp1FO0Vmuw
00:17.08Emton~seen Emton
00:17.09ibotemton is currently on #brlcad (1d 8h 40m 59s). Has said a total of 71 messages. Is idling for 1s, last said: '~seen Emton'.
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04:11.45Emtonhey what's up
04:12.04Emtonstarting playing around w/those distros but..
04:12.18Emtonthey use cygwin anyways hehe
04:12.30Emtonso back to cygwin
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07:43.47Emtonanybody?
07:47.53louipcwhat distros?
08:18.21Emtonthose coLinux jammies
08:18.38Emtonwas having problems w/cygwin
08:19.04Emtonturned to be mute since they all use cygwin anyway
11:37.56brlcadyou say you modified libpkg?
11:38.04brlcadshouldn't have needed to
11:54.38CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36484 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/ (Makefile.am TODO): a todo file specifically for libdm. refactor dm-generic, support application driver dms, and remove tcl/tk use from api
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12:50.55CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36485 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/configure.ac: remove loads of unnecessary stuff. should reduce configure time some.
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13:08.13CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36486 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/configure.ac: more removal for brevity
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13:48.02CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36487 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: if we're compiling stricct, turn attributes off. this is needed because our format string allows a %V conversion character that is not recognized.
13:51.17CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36488 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac:
13:51.19CIA-61BRL-CAD: add compiler tests for strict compilation flags (-pedantic -W -Wall -Werror)
13:51.21CIA-61BRL-CAD: along with -Wno-lang-lang which is needed due to tcl.h's use of the c99 long
13:51.23CIA-61BRL-CAD: long construct. this set of strict compilation flags can be enabled on a per
13:51.29CIA-61BRL-CAD: directory basis using the STRICT_FLAGS variable as directories are cleaned up.
13:51.31CIA-61BRL-CAD: additionally, add -std=c89 to the compile line to make our compliance goal
13:51.37CIA-61BRL-CAD: explicit (at least if we're using gcc).
13:52.38CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36489 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (avs.c list.c parallel.c vls.c): quell a variety of verbose-level warnings, primarily type conversions
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15:16.32CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36490 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): change line comments (//) to block comments (/* */)
15:33.18starseekerbrlcad: erm - C++ apparently doesn't like -std=c89 - is there a C++ version
15:43.48brlcadahh, right
15:44.08brlcadhadn't gotten that far myself.. disabling gnu extensions caused other failurs
15:48.25CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36491 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: override setting all flags for -std=c89 since we only want CFLAGS, not CXXFLAGS. not a valid std on c++ files.
16:17.49starseekeroh, lovely - opennurbs isn't c89 valid
16:18.33starseekerreflects that if we need to fix opennurbs, it might be time to revert to a vanilla opennurbs in the trunk and make only the minimal changes that we need
16:19.33brlcadwouldn't be, it's c++
16:19.46brlcadit's it barfing on something?
16:19.50starseekeropennurbs_memory.c
16:19.57brlcadhrm
16:20.14brlcadsvn mv opennurbs_memory.c opennurbs_memory.cpp ;)  (j/k)
16:20.26brlcadit's probably c99
16:21.05brlcadif that's the case, need to make that -std flag non-global (to a var), then override the var in opennurbs
16:28.14CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36492 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/jove/jove_io.c: minor ansi compliance patch, use S_ISCHR() instead testing S_IFCHR directly.
16:29.33CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36493 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/TODO: Add a TODO about getting the NIST code to actually generated the correct code for src/conv/step
16:29.53starseekerer, generate rather
16:30.30brlcaddon't forget EXTRA_DIST lucy!
16:30.39starseekeroo, good point
16:30.42brlcad</carlos>
16:31.33CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36494 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/Makefile.am: Bad developer. Update the Makefile.am too.
16:32.03brlcadheh, thank you gnu hurd for that S_ISCHR() hint
16:32.31starseekerwait, what? HURD actually helped someone do something??
16:32.37starseekerfaints in shock
16:43.55``Erikwait, what? hurd/herd produced something other than a lot of claims about how it'll be awesome?
16:43.58``ErikO.O
16:44.08brlcadwasn't hurd directly
16:44.15brlcadbut a patch from someone to hurd
16:44.22brlcadwas the same patch jove needed
16:44.27brlcador at least similar
16:45.03``Erikthe only patch jove needs is the one measured in megatons
16:45.07``ErikO:-)
16:45.35starseekerdon't worry - on some far day in the remote future we'll be able to nuke it
16:46.19louipcwell, it's disabled by default.. good 'nuff for me
16:47.32starseekerah fudge, forgot to deprecate make_bb
16:49.30starseekerbrlcad: I take it I should make a 7.16 section in deprecated.txt?
16:49.54brlcadif you're deprecating something, yep
16:50.03brlcadjust follow form
16:50.15starseekershould have done it earlier, but I'll do it now...
16:51.26starseekerwonders what else he forgot to deprecate...
16:51.52brlcadif you at least said it in a file elsewhere or in the commit message, "close enough"
16:52.11CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36495 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/deprecation.txt: make_bb will go away in favor of bb, which defines a superset of its functionality.
16:52.21brlcadsomeone should weed out the oldest deprecations at some point
16:52.36brlcadno sense keeping the ancient issues active
16:52.55starseekerwhat's the distinction between deprecated and obsolete?
16:53.05brlcadobsolete is when it's removed
16:53.20brlcaddeprecated is when it's scheduled to be removed
16:53.25starseekerah
16:53.53starseekeris a bit confused - how come there is anything newer than 7.12 in obsolete?
16:53.53brlcadso top items are moved to the bottom when they're finally yanked, so there's a log of what happened even if you missed deprecation
16:55.28brlcadheh, damn!
16:55.33starseekerOh, I see - "there exists a an equivalent alternative interface"
16:55.40brlcadthe new Werror portion is killer
16:56.06brlcadworking like a charm, but damn is it failing cross-platform even on our "clean" libbu..
16:56.09brlcadquells
16:56.11EmtonI had to modify libpkg because of conflicts with socket.h, un.h
16:56.22CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36496 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/deprecation.txt: Fix typo in instructions.
16:56.27brlcadEmton: can you be more specific?
16:56.39brlcadsuspect maybe a header test failed?
16:56.47brlcador a specific patch that fixed it
16:56.50Emtonyea, hang on i'll reproduce
16:58.10Emtonhere is what happend *after* i hacked the .h redefine errors away
16:58.12Emton$ make
16:58.12Emtonrict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -version-info 19:1 -no-undefined -L/us
16:58.12Emtonr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -o libpkg.la
16:58.12Emton-rpath /usr/brlcad/lib pkg.lo tcl.lo vers.lo
16:58.12Emton.libs/pkg.o: In function `pkg_open':
16:58.12Emton<PROTECTED>
16:58.14Emton<PROTECTED>
16:58.16Emton<PROTECTED>
16:59.51brlcadstarseeker: there's a bug report on the 10.4 ogl-enabled build causing a crash
17:02.26starseekercrud. we've really got to get to AquaTk and get off this Mac X11 merry-go-round
17:02.53brlcadEmton: hm, some net lib is missing
17:03.47brlcadobviously detected HAVE_WINSOCK_H .. so it's trying to use winsock
17:04.08Emtonwell gethostbyname was one of the things it complained of originally being "redefined" so I ripped it out of a local winsock.h for libpkg
17:04.34Emtondo you know what WSAStartup is?
17:04.42brlcadyes
17:04.51brlcadneed to know what that original problem was
17:04.53``Erikthe function to initialize the socket library on winderz
17:05.12brlcadif it was being redefined due to our headers
17:05.12Emtonyea, i think its stemming from automake issues
17:05.14``Erikneeds winsock.dll linked, I imagine
17:05.19brlcadyeah
17:06.16Emtoni've got like 5 versions on here, don't know if that's the problem, but i think i'll wipe out the stuff and add it back
17:07.41brlcadlibpkg compiles cleanly now via studio, so it should just be build settings that need tweaking, not source changes
17:07.51brlcadmaybe a few preprocessor checks
17:08.20brlcadbut no logic changes should be necessary
17:09.09Emtonyea, another thing it complained about was the return (PKG_ERROR) stuff
17:09.25Emtonnot being casted, i cast as (int) and it stopped
17:13.42CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36497 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: strict c89 standards compliance without gnu or bsd extensions is a bit too far out of reach .. disable for the time being.
17:15.29CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36498 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpkg/pkg.c: quell warning. cast since the func returns int (thx Emton) and PKC_ERROR is already a cast pointer.
17:18.09Emtonis libpkg really needed for standlalone server?
17:18.28brlcadwhat do you mean?
17:18.53brlcadit's a low-level networking library, how most of the framebuffer utilities intercommunicate
17:19.05Emtonit says in pkg.c sounds like ipc stuff
17:19.24brlcadit is, sorta
17:19.27Emtonoh ok yea
17:19.51Emtonwasn't sure if it was for more distributed model of BRLCAD
17:20.28brlcadnope, it's intrinsic to many of the tools
17:20.54Emtonyea, rt won't build w/out it
17:21.06brlcadmostly the server-based tools, one of which is a distributed processing tool, but others too
17:22.25brlcadall the tracers, most of the framebuffer tools, all the display managers, the remrt distributed rendering system, the mged gui (framebuffer and diplay manager servers embedded), .. and probably a few others
17:22.40Emtonheh, u fixed that cast problem quick =)
17:23.29Emtonyea, i know i need to fix this cygwin env problem and get it done right
17:28.08CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36499 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: keep disabled, but need to move the c89 test above above the headers and types so the tests will fail properly (ran into HAVE_SIG_T getting defined even though it's a bsd extension, compile-time failure.)
17:28.37brlcadyeah, if you can update to a latest checkout, no mods.. compile and report that pkg error -- can see what the fix should be for gethostbyname and whatever else was failing
17:32.24Emtonalright, i'll get it and let you know what happens, takes hours for me on this antique here tho
17:32.47brlcadnods
17:32.56CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36500 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: minor comment
17:46.19CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36501 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: technically now have stricter compilation flags on 'clean' directories .. just only one dir (libbu) is clean, and semi-clean at that (can't enable -std=c89 justwithout quellage)
18:05.36CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36502 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/mappedfile.c: mmap takes void*, feed it NULL
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18:31.37yukonbobhttp://www.skytopia.com/project/fractal/mandelbulb.html#renders
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21:47.18louipcyukonbob: sweet. I wish I could understand the advanced mathematics
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091117

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091117

00:05.40*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-185-57.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
00:06.21*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@d142-058-089-212.wireless.sfu.ca)
00:08.28*** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=starseek@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ)
00:08.53starseekerArrrrrrrrrrgh
00:09.09starseekerfop ignores my config setting, xsltproc ignores options...
00:13.05``Erikxslut ftl
00:24.49starseekerslinks back to the automake list...
00:57.36starseekerwaaait...
01:47.58CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36503 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs):
01:48.00CIA-61BRL-CAD: At long last, what appears to be a solution to the png image in pdf file problem
01:48.02CIA-61BRL-CAD: when using fop. Generate a config file that sets the base path and add it to
01:48.04CIA-61BRL-CAD: the fop call. Requires ALL xml files to use the ../../pathname convention, but
01:48.06CIA-61BRL-CAD: since xinclude required that anyway what the heck. Start with key files, will
01:48.12CIA-61BRL-CAD: follow with massive image moving.
01:53.45starseekerwooooot!
01:53.59starseekernow if the image move will just commit...
02:02.08CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36504 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (438 files in 3 dirs): rename all the docbook png images to have the correct suffix.
02:05.15starseekeryesss
03:30.08*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@d142-058-089-212.wireless.sfu.ca)
03:51.56louipcwhoa
03:54.34louipcyou guys ready for the meteor shower?
04:09.33starseekergets his umbrella
04:10.54starseekerwow, now here's something I'd like to get if I had unlimited $$:   http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-T221-22-2-3840x2400-LCD-Monitor_W0QQitemZ150387862548Q
04:12.54louipcwhat if you had an extra 3500?
04:24.13starseekerI'd be buying more flooring
04:32.44louipcpah
04:47.42starseekercool - 4004 Intel chip details released
04:49.04starseekeris bemused by the non-commercial restrictions
06:49.44*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.49.189)
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13:52.35CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r36505 10/rt^3/tags/rel-7-16-2/: tag the C++ core interface with the corresponding BRL-CAD version
14:59.03CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36506 10/isst/trunk/src/Makefile.am: change binary name to include gui toolkit
15:35.00CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36507 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/Makefile.am: Whoops - no longer building images now, so reference the actual lists of images rather than the (now nonexistant) build rule.
15:35.23starseekerhmm, wonder how my system at home managed to build with that still there
15:44.44*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14FAFE.dip.t-dialin.net)
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16:00.42brlcadhuhm
16:01.19starseekerbrlcad: welcome back :-)
16:02.23starseekerdunno if you saw it, but the .docpng hack is no more
16:04.09brlcadoh cool!
16:04.19brlcadno i hadn't seen that
16:04.39brlcadhad a recovery after yesterday's all-nighter, haven't seen mail
16:04.46starseekernods
16:04.50starseekerfigured
16:04.54brlcadand dunno what happened here .. presume it was the staffer rerouting
16:05.27starseekeryour mac is refusing to compile opennurbs 64 bit, by the way (grr...)
16:05.36brlcadcool
16:33.36*** part/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@adsl-99-181-171-110.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net)
16:37.16starseekergreat - it compiles 32 bit, but that's no help
16:45.05starseekererm.  brlcad, another data point - looks like building 64 bit without enable optimized got past opennurbs
16:56.57CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36508 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ (7 files in 4 dirs): Added a mode for centering the view on an object hit point.
17:00.18starseekerchecks...
17:00.33starseekercrud.  Looks like the -O3 flag is the bad actor.
17:02.13starseekertries O2
17:07.17starseekerbrlcad: OK, looks like O2 succeeds but O3 barfs
17:11.31starseekerI'm not sure what to do about debugging a problem caused by an O3 issue - the google reference Keith turned up sounded like it might actually be a compiler issue
17:11.46starseekerare there any standard procedures for such a situation?
18:26.17*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@adsl-99-181-171-110.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net)
18:26.38*** part/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@adsl-99-181-171-110.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net)
19:06.35*** join/#brlcad roberthl (n=robert@rhl.me.uk)
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19:40.19CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36509 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_font.cpp:
19:40.21CIA-61BRL-CAD: workaround patch for a gcc 4.0.1 optimization bug where it ends up outputting
19:40.23CIA-61BRL-CAD: bad assembly causing a relocation linker failure. (local recloation for address
19:40.25CIA-61BRL-CAD: 0x00... in section __text does not target section __const) this avoids getting
19:40.27CIA-61BRL-CAD: a const wchar_t* directly from a wide string literal, instead going through the
19:40.33CIA-61BRL-CAD: ON_wString class.
19:43.34CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36510 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_font.cpp:
19:43.36CIA-61BRL-CAD: oops, meant to apply this to trunk.. workaround patch for a gcc 4.0.1
19:43.40CIA-61BRL-CAD: optimization bug where it ends up outputting bad assembly causing a relocation
19:43.42CIA-61BRL-CAD: linker failure. (local recloation for address 0x00... in section __text does not
19:43.47CIA-61BRL-CAD: target section __const) this avoids getting a const wchar_t* directly from a
19:43.51CIA-61BRL-CAD: wide string literal, instead going through the ON_wString class.
22:11.25*** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (n=Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1)
22:30.05*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@cpc2-bexl3-0-0-cust843.bmly.cable.ntl.com)
22:33.38CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36511 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (doevent.c mged_dm.h): Mods to expose doEvent() and motion_event_handler() to windows.
23:44.31CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36512 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/ (Makefile.am msr.c multipoly.c poly.c tcl.c wavelet.c): quell a handful of remaining warnings so libbn can also now be strict with respect to compilation warnings too
23:50.38CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36513 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_memory.c: quell warning about unused memblock parameter by using it to always return false.
23:56.20yukonbob? only SF files in 7.16.2 download section are windows
23:57.09yukonbobnm -- found other folder.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091118

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091118

00:00.36CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36514 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/fortran.c: remove the ifdopn/IFDOPN fortran wrapper as it uses fdopen() which supposedly isn't in c99 (yet is c89). old unpublished interface, see if anyone is affected.
00:33.24CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36515 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (backtrace.c brlcad_path.c crashreport.c): quell a variety of compliance warnings. popen, kill, and fileno are annoyingly not in c99.
00:44.31CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36516 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/malloc.c: in more than 15 years, i've not derived any useful value knowing sbrk(0) on an out-of-memory state. bye.
00:47.58CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36517 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/parse.c: there's no point in limiting parsing to chars < 127, testing if it's a space is sufficient
00:48.44CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36518 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/parse.c: another isascii()
00:58.15CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36519 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (9 files):
00:58.19CIA-61BRL-CAD: quell a slew of additional warnings for strict mode compilation. we still use
00:58.21CIA-61BRL-CAD: non-c99 functions, but have to declare them ourselves if it's a strict
00:58.25CIA-61BRL-CAD: compliance compile (configure takes care of when they're not available at all
00:58.34CIA-61BRL-CAD: for some symbols). re-enable STRICT_FLAGS.
01:03.27CIA-61BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36520 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: test for popen, used by libbu in a few places
01:37.33Emtonhello
01:37.35Emton?
01:37.58Emtonanybody know the rate tabinterp directive well??
01:38.42EmtonI put in a step value of -15 and it's dropping me by 3.5
01:38.44Emtonweird
01:39.02Emton$ cat tabinterpcmds
01:39.03Emtonfile chans.vsize -;
01:39.03Emtonfile chans.eyept - - 3;
01:39.03Emtonfile chans.orient 4 5 6 7;
01:39.03Emtontimes 0 12 4;
01:39.03Emtonrate 0 439.42 0;
01:39.04Emtonrate 1 76.2 0;
01:39.06Emtonrate 2 52.07 -14;
01:39.08Emtoninterp cspline 3 4 5 6 7;
01:40.26Emtonchannel 2, first val = 52.07
01:40.44Emtonchannel 2, second val = 38.9845
01:40.44Emtonwhoops
01:41.10Emtonchannel 2, second val = 48.57
01:41.42Emton** read from the sentinel file **
03:17.07starseekerinstalls llvm and clang
03:17.35starseekercan't do much in the way of c++, otherwise it would be fun to try a BRL-CAD compile
03:17.46starseekersuppose llvm-gcc might work
03:41.33*** join/#brlcad CIA-13 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
03:49.37Emtonok, in tabinterp.c->rate_interpolate()
03:49.37Emtonchp->c_oval[t] = ival + rate * times[t];
03:49.37Emtonshould probably be: chp->c_oval[t] = ival + rate * t;
03:49.37Emtoni'm backing up and will try to compile and see if it works
03:58.36*** join/#brlcad CIA-28 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
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04:03.12starseekerheh
04:03.15starseeker../../../brlcad/src/libbu/crashreport.c:75:21: error: format string is not a string literal
04:03.18starseeker<PROTECTED>
04:03.21starseeker<PROTECTED>
04:03.23starseeker<PROTECTED>
04:03.41starseekermust say he like's clang's approach to error reporting at least
04:06.48*** join/#brlcad Notme (n=yas@47.18.28.72.cpe.echoes.net)
04:07.17Notmeniven went down, but i did compile and it appears to work correclty now =)
04:09.50Notmeif i had SVN access, i would post but the change is in src/tab/tabinterp.c->rate_interpolate()
04:10.21Notmelast line before end of FOR loop should read: chp->c_oval[t] = ival + rate * t;
04:10.52starseekerNotme: make a patch and submit it to sf
04:11.04Notmehuh?
04:11.35Notmenot familiar w/the process of open source dev
04:11.46NotmeI got SVN but no privileges
04:12.04starseekeryeah - you do an svn diff to see what changes were made
04:12.31Notmewhat do you mean, i'm giving the change
04:12.39starseekercd src/tab
04:12.41starseekersvn diff
04:12.51Notmeok hang on
04:13.01starseekerlet me check if brlcad has a preferred way to make a patch
04:13.28Notmelol, i use tortoise really not cmdline
04:13.36starseekererm
04:13.46Notmeis not my copy there, where i compiled
04:13.59starseekerok, well svn diff > tabinterp.c.patch would work
04:14.27starseekerNotme: check the file HACKING in the toplevel
04:15.00Notmealright, i think i need privs tho to do any updates
04:15.17Notmei'm not pulling from the https trunk
04:15.51starseekeryeah, first you submit a patch here:  http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=105292&atid=640804
04:15.55Notmebtw, it's me Emton in case u didnt realize
04:16.00starseekerfigured :-)
04:16.05Notmeheh
04:16.17starseekerthen it gets reviewed by a dev and incorporated
04:16.25starseekertakes a little while to get commit access
04:16.42Notmeyea, that makes sense
04:17.49Notmei remember when i gen'd the html pages from man was a process, hmm..
04:20.41Notmeok, i got the diff
04:21.11Notmeline 782, tabinterp.c
04:40.07Notmei dunno, sourceforge signup email not showing up
04:40.25Notmestarseeker if u got an account u can post it up
04:40.41Notme*if u don't mind* =)
05:31.22Notmealright is put up in the patches
07:25.50*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ)
07:41.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r36521 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/fchmod.c: there is no mode_t in MSVC
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13:27.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1802 10/wiki/Talk:BRL-CAD_Commands:
13:30.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1803 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_cp:
13:30.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1804 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_cpi:
13:31.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1805 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_db:
13:31.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1806 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_db_glob:
13:31.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1807 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_dbbinary:
13:31.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1808 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_dbconcat:
13:33.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1809 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_dbfind:
13:34.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1810 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_dbfindtree:
13:34.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1811 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_debugbu:
13:34.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1812 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_status:
13:34.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1813 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_sph-part:
13:34.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1814 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_solids_on_ray:
13:35.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1815 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_solids:
13:35.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1816 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_size:
13:35.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1817 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_showmats:
13:35.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1818 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_shells:
13:35.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1819 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_share:
13:35.35CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1820 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_set_more_default:
13:35.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1821 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_sed:
13:35.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1822 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_sca:
13:35.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1823 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_ls:
13:36.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1824 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_lookat:
13:36.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1825 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_loadtk:
13:36.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1826 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_l_muves:
13:44.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1827 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_aip:
13:45.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1828 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_cmd_win:
13:45.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1829 10/wiki/Category:MGED_developer_commands: New page: [[category:MGED]]
13:49.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36522 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (10 files): Take a stab at cleaning up some warnings in libbu with llvm-gcc.
13:57.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1830 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_collaborate:
13:57.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1831 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_get_edit_solid:
13:57.28CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1832 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_get_more_default:
13:57.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1833 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_grid2model_lu:
13:57.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1834 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_grid2view_lu:
13:58.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1835 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_get_comb:
13:58.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1836 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_get_dm_list:
13:58.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1837 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_gui_destroy:
13:58.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1838 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_hist:
13:58.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1839 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_model2grid_lu:
13:58.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1840 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_model2view:
13:58.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1841 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_model2view_lu:
13:58.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1842 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_make_name:
13:58.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1843 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_mged_update:
13:58.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1844 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_mmenu_get:
13:58.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1845 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_mmenu_set:
13:59.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1846 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_output_hook:
13:59.15CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1847 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_put_comb:
13:59.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1848 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_stuff_str:
13:59.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1849 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_svb:
13:59.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1850 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_tie:
13:59.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1851 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_view2model_lu:
14:01.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1852 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_reset_edit_solid:
14:01.35CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1853 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_put_edit_solid:
14:01.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1854 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_rset:
14:01.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1855 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_set_more_default:
14:02.16CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1856 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_share:
14:02.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1857 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_solids_on_ray:
14:02.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1858 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_view2model_vec:
14:02.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1859 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_view_ring:
14:02.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1860 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_viewget:
14:03.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1861 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_viewset:
14:03.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1862 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_winset:
14:07.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1863 10/wiki/Category:MGED_developer_commands:
14:10.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1864 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_hist_add:
14:35.31*** join/#brlcad d-lo (n=claymore@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ)
15:04.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36524 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (backtrace.c fchmod.c): wrap the extern fileno to avoid explosions where fileno is defined as a macro (freebsd).
15:53.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36525 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/parse.c: Put the %V back for now - apparently there's some sort of custom BRL-CAD specific logic at work here?
17:13.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36526 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/TrimmedCurve.cpp: Added unit converions to Trim_Curve entity when trimming by cartesian_point.
17:33.44*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177879483.dsl.bell.ca)
18:12.50CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36527 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/parallel.c: Sigh. Put parallel.c back as well - casting is size_t, which appears to complicate things.
18:23.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36528 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (9 files): Sigh. Size differences on different archs are causing trouble - revert for now.
18:42.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36529 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/ (plane.c sphmap.c tabdata.c): Revert the libbn stuff too - need a plan on how to approach this.
18:44.44starseeker``Erik: does this look to be of any interest?  http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/geometry/polygonise/
18:54.39starseekerhmm - looks like we might have to ask permission to use code on that page
18:55.19starseekerthis one looks like it might be public domain though:  http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/geometry/polygonise/table2.txt
18:55.56starseekeroh, so is this:  http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/geometry/polygonise/marchingsource.cpp
18:59.24starseekerLooks like GTS has some marching stuff as well
18:59.43brlcadcracks open an editor, finally able to get started with his day
18:59.51starseekermorning ;-)
18:59.55starseekersorry for the mess
19:00.05brlcadwhat mess?
19:00.24starseekerattempted to quell some warnings and ended up causing other problems
19:00.27starseekerreverted now
19:00.31brlcadah
19:00.42brlcadyeah, I suspect there will be a bit of backlash with Werror
19:00.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36530 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/OpenNurbsInterfaces.cpp:
19:00.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: Cleaned up ellipse code to directly build ellipse from bezier(similar to the
19:00.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: hyperbola) versus using openNURBS ellipse routine allowing for better control
19:00.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: of the curve parameterization. Also removed unit conversion of curve endpoints
19:00.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: for trimmed curves now done in one place the trimmed_curve parent.
19:00.59brlcadonly quelled a mac and linux box
19:01.07starseekeris on board with getting it cleaned up, but it looks like it will take some work
19:01.45brlcadyep, trying to force the hand so we don't keep having new issues slip in
19:02.03starseekerapparently format hates us
19:03.14starseekerjfmi - does quelling mean "fixing" or just "turn off complaining about"?
19:03.17brlcadyeah, right now it's only protected against by checking for __STRICT_ANSI__
19:03.41brlcadboth, depends on the warning
19:04.07brlcad95% of our warnings are benign so it's just shutting up the compiler by making something explicit that wasn't
19:04.15starseekerdo we eventually want to fix to the point where we don't have to turn off any of the complaints?
19:04.46starseekernods - unfortunately anything involving size_t seems to be trouble
19:04.59brlcadideally, but that probably won't happen if only for external deps
19:05.16brlcadsize_t?
19:05.53starseekerone of the format statements was casting something as (size_t) - apparently printf doesn't deal properly with that until C99 (via %zu)
19:06.23brlcadfyi, our printf-style functions will all fail on %V because we do add that one and the compiler hinting mechanism doesn't have a means (i'm aware of) for informing it of new character format specifiers
19:06.56brlcadso the 'fix' for that warning is to just turn off the hint we add to tell the compiler it's a printf-style function (it doesn't figure it out automatically)
19:06.58starseekercould we get around that by defining bu_format and doing any new things like %V there?
19:08.10brlcadhm, in that size_t case .. sounds like the cast is wrong
19:08.31starseekerparallel.c line 1067
19:08.34starseekerlibbu
19:09.55starseekerwhat does %V do - allow printing vls strings?
19:10.31brlcadyes
19:11.15brlcada bu_format wouldn't get around it -- you'd still have the %V somewhere
19:11.25brlcadso long as it was printf-style
19:11.46brlcadagain, we're the ones telling the compiler to treat it as printf-style and validate it as such
19:11.46starseekerah.  couldn't we just do bu_vls_addr(*vlsstring) and use %s?
19:12.06brlcadso the easy fix is just turn off that hint if Werror is in effect
19:12.09starseekernods
19:12.25brlcadyou could do that, lots of places that actually call fprintf/printf/snprintf/etc do that
19:12.33brlcadbut it defeats the purpose
19:13.01brlcadand is actually more expensive if it was something that mattered performance-wise (not likely)
19:13.35starseekerwhere do we hint?
19:14.08brlcadbu.h
19:14.59brlcadlook for __STRICT_ANSI__ .. that's where I "turn it off" presently, but __STRICT_ANSI__ will only get set if -std= is set, which we can't enable
19:15.10starseekerhrm
19:15.17brlcadneed a better toggle
19:15.36brlcadlike maybe an AC_DEFINE from configure
19:16.15brlcadi still need to add a configure toggle too, so we can turn Werror off on the fly if needed without needing an edit
19:16.24brlcad(for third-party users)
19:16.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36531 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/nirt.c:
19:16.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: Mods to accommodate an earlier change to the nirt application (.i.e. the
19:16.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: application is no longer setting the file modes to O_BINARY). Here we, likewise,
19:16.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: no longer set the file modes to O_BINARY and strip of any CRLF's we find.
19:17.03brlcado.O
19:17.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36532 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/parallel.c: quell warning, print the pointer as a pointer instead of a size_t
19:18.09starseekerah, that does make more sense
19:20.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36533 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/OpenNurbsInterfaces.cpp: cleaned up original ellipse function stubs and some reordering
19:21.17starseekerbrlcad: the one ``Erik and I really aren't sure what to do with is bu_rb_summarize_tree in rb_diag.c
19:21.59brlcadwhat about it?
19:22.40starseekerhang on, let me regenerate the exact error
19:23.08brlcadmore than likely, just not passing a voi*
19:24.09starseekeryeah, except one of them (I think the one on line 111) won't take that cast
19:24.18starseekerit's some kind of violation of ISO C
19:24.23brlcadsaw those _WIN32's that bob slipped in!
19:25.03starseekerdid a lot of (void *) casting in his reverted changes - if that's what's needed I can turn it back on
19:25.14brlcadah, yeah, you can't cast a function to a void*
19:25.23brlcadpeople do it all the time and expect it
19:25.38brlcadbut the standard says no pretty clearly
19:26.18brlcadprobably just not passing the address
19:27.56brlcadlooks
19:28.54brlcadthe bigger issue is what value is there to printing a red-black tree comparison function address
19:28.55Emtonprobably a novelty but rttherm isn't in the windows distro
19:29.21brlcadEmton: there are about 150 of 400 binaries missing from windows, iirc
19:29.31Emtonok
19:29.34brlcader, sorry, flip that
19:29.49brlcadthere are about 250 missing, 150 existing of 400
19:30.09Emtonwow, alright is that because they dev work?
19:30.24brlcadyeah, just nobody working on that
19:30.35brlcadnothing hard .. just very tedious
19:30.37Emtonyea, i would but i don't have VS
19:30.50brlcadcould try express ;)
19:30.52brlcadtis free
19:31.11Emtonheh, i'll take a look at it
19:31.16brlcadI think someone even reported that it worked with our multi-project build setup
19:31.23Emtoni'm still banging away on my cygwin
19:31.49Emtonbtw, i put the patch in under icbml for tabinterp.c
19:31.51brlcadif you get the hankering, misc/win32-msvc8 is the dir -- brlcad solution
19:32.01brlcadicbml?
19:32.04Emtonok
19:32.09brlcad~icbml
19:32.10Emtonyea, that's my old handle
19:32.14brlcadahh
19:32.14brlcadk
19:32.35brlcad:)
19:32.44Emtonheheh
19:33.24brlcadtsk tsk .. someone had you post a tracker for a one-liner.. good to know the usual process though :)
19:33.37Emton!!starseeker
19:33.41Emtonugh
19:33.44Emtonyea
19:33.50Emtonbut at least now I know the process
19:35.07brlcadthat said.. on the surface, not sure I believe that fix..
19:35.26brlcadthat times[] array is what it's supposed to use for rate interpolation iirc
19:35.43brlcadreally old chunk of code, but otherwise the table wouldn't be used (or needed)
19:36.12brlcadmaybe you have bad times[t] values
19:36.13Emtonnot sure, but the rate part itself is a simple step val generator
19:36.33Emtoni compiled that and it worked as expectd
19:36.53starseekerbrlcad: had him post to (a) learn the process and (b) cause I wasn't sure and wanted someone else to check it
19:37.02Emtonit should just iterate for every row and times the row (i) by a constant (the rate)
19:37.39Emtoni ripped the blurb in the tracker from the tabinterp man page
19:37.42brlcadstarseeker: I know, just giving you some grief ;)
19:37.53starseekerloves grief :-)
19:38.02brlcadI know how "fun" it is to post tracker items
19:38.09Emtonhehe
19:39.42brlcadhm
19:40.40brlcadyeah, this really feels like it only works because it's using linear interpolation and the t param matches
19:40.59brlcadthere are different interpoliation modes where t isn't what you'd want
19:41.10Emtonyea, it's really not even an interp it's a val generator
19:41.30Emtonbefore it would step by 3.5 for  me no matter what
19:41.59brlcadnods
19:43.08brlcadwell, frankly you're the first to but the interpolater to use in a few years, so taking it at face value ;)
19:43.19Emtonhehe, i was trying to use it so I could be lazy and not take keyframe saveviews for my anims
19:43.44Emtonbtw, i pushed everything into a shell script and it works pretty well
19:44.18Emtonnot sure if anyone, is interested but i could post if ppl are doing animations
19:45.39starseekerI'm sure some folks would be interested
19:46.27Emtonhmm.. well i will clean it up and post to?? tracker?
19:46.35CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36534 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tab/tabinterp.c:
19:46.35CIA-28BRL-CAD: apply imcbml/Emton's sf patch 2899596 (TABINTERP RATE INTERP) where the rate
19:46.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: interpolation function was taking the (fixed) times table value instead of
19:46.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: directly using the simple interpolation t value. this should hopefully fix a
19:46.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: tabinterp bug with rate-based table interpolation, but untested.
19:47.27starseekerEmton: sounds like a good candidate for the wiki
19:47.31starseekerbrlcad.org
19:47.55Emtonalright, just edit and post there
19:48.26starseekeryep
19:48.34starseekeris looking for good example
19:48.59starseekermight even add to this:  http://brlcad.org/wiki/Animation
19:49.04Emtonyea
19:49.12Emtonthat's where i was looking
19:50.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36535 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tab/tabinterp.c: ws indent style formatting cleanup
19:50.51Emtonalthough this is not a tutorial, this just a shell script to automate what goes on in most of those tutorials
19:51.24starseekerno problem :-)
19:51.52Emtonhehe, ok well i'll put it up there after i clean it up (the non-generic)
19:54.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36536 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac src/libbu/parse.c): Add a configure option to disable strict compiler flags at need (-disable-strict) - they're enabled by default but this provides a convenient way to turn them off.
19:55.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36537 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/parse.c: Blast it, sucked in change by mistake.
20:10.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36538 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac include/bu.h): Add an configure based flag for the format hitting toggle - this should be more robust for turning on/off format checking.
20:10.27starseekerbrlcad: see if that looks OK...
20:13.37brlcadEmton: and keep the patches coming ;)
20:13.47brlcaddon't have to be bug fixes
20:18.43brlcadstarseeker: looks good
20:19.07brlcadjust maybe not in the summary, prime realestate
20:20.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36539 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tab/tabinterp.c: restructure so forward declarations are not needed
20:21.55Emtonheh, alright well looks like i'm getting closer to a fix on my cygwin env problems - seems my AntiVir soft was hooking opened files and holding onto the pointers - latest SVN pull of BRLCAD has been compiling for the last .5hr without real hiccups =)
20:22.23starseekerbrlcad: yeah, I was torn - I'll go ahead and nuke
20:22.39starseekereventually it shouldn't be an issue anyhow
20:23.21brlcadwhen in doubt, yank
20:23.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36540 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: Take strict building out of summary
20:24.01starseekeryanked
20:24.12brlcadrather have it short, 50% informative, and used 90% of the time than long, 90% informative, and used 50% of the time.. ;)
20:25.09brlcadfew other items in there could probably get nuked at some point
20:27.21starseekerwinces - opennurbs_ext.cpp + mmintrin.h is now the breakage point
20:27.22starseekerouch
20:27.41starseekerbrlcad: can I nuke jove from that summary?  (next best thing to nuking jove...)
20:29.14starseekerwhat the bleepitty bleeepity bleep... it's complaining about conversions in the header files
20:31.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36541 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tab/tabinterp.c: quell warnings, couples bugs
20:31.49brlcadstarseeker: yeah, that'd be a good one
20:32.10starseekerhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m68eefb84
20:32.14brlcadwhat plat are you on?
20:32.50starseekerOSX 10.4
20:33.12starseekerpastebin is the full error
20:33.19brlcadthis isn't something new is it?
20:33.36starseekerjust when I got past libbu and libbn with strict on
20:33.37brlcaddoesn't recall modding librt
20:33.48brlcadonly bu/bn have strict enabled
20:33.53starseekererm
20:34.16brlcadas seen in your compile line .. no warning flags ;)
20:34.38starseekerok...
20:34.51brlcadisn't that the fpu/gpu issue?
20:34.52starseekerwhat'd I break now...
20:35.01starseekeroh, could be
20:35.19starseekerthat's right, the insufficient test
20:35.45brlcadthough the other was an illegal instruction
20:35.56starseekerthat one puzzled me (nothing new) - we seem to be doing sse testing in that include conditional...
20:36.44starseekergrowls
20:38.13starseekerthe other instance was a step-g conv triggered thing, iirc
20:38.22brlcadah, yes
20:45.47brlcadstarseeker: you still have that opennurbs_ext.cpp error?
20:46.07starseekerI started over without strict enabled and got by it
20:46.11brlcadjust noticed your compile line is missing sse directives
20:46.23starseekerhmm
20:46.25brlcadturning strict off got by it?
20:46.29starseekeryep
20:46.31brlcado.O
20:47.00brlcadahhh
20:47.06starseekerlet me capture the compile line from this one...
20:47.25starseeker/bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --mode=compile g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../../../brlcad/src/librt -I../../include  -I../../../brlcad/src/other/libregex -I../../../brlcad/src/other/tcl/generic -I../../../brlcad/src/other/tcl/unix  -DOBJ_BREP=1 -I../../../brlcad/src/other/tnt -I../../../brlcad/src/other/openNURBS -I../../../brlcad/src/other/libz  -DBRLCADBUILD=1 -I../../../brlcad/include -I../../../brlcad/src/other/openNURBS -I../../../brlcad/src/other/li
20:47.26brlcadI wonder if it's leaving a flag set during configure
20:47.41brlcadthat looks normal
20:47.45brlcadno warning flags
20:47.57brlcadso the only diff should be brlcad_config.h detections
20:48.18brlcadand that is missing -msse to enable sse support
20:48.23brlcadhence the failure
20:49.24starseekersees an sse section commented out in configure.ac
20:49.52brlcadneeds msse or msse2 or msse3
20:50.15starseekerhow is strict vs. non-strict impacting anything?
20:50.32brlcadit really shouldn't
20:51.15brlcadonly thing that comes to mind is a flag is getting left set .. and further function/lib/header checks then fail
20:52.45starseekerunless it's something done by BC_COMPILER_AND_LINKER_RECOGNIZES I'm at a loss
20:54.12brlcadyeah, dunno .. the [no] at the end specifically means don't leave the flags set
20:54.32brlcadcompare your config outputs
20:54.52brlcadfor the same flags, they shouldn't be diff other than the strict define
20:58.24brlcadhm
21:00.41starseekermaybe this is one of those weird "tree not clean things..."
21:01.04starseekeris generating configure logs for both options
21:02.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36542 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Added a public putString method.
21:05.28brlcadhm, could be that too
21:06.49brlcadbut oddness is why it would work *without* strict ..
21:06.58starseekerah
21:07.22brlcadit HAS to be determining SSE is unavailable somehow
21:07.27brlcadyet with strict on, it tries it
21:07.42brlcadmaybe two problems :)
21:07.58starseekerit thinks it is available - remember the step-g problem
21:08.15brlcadsince the whole sse section in configure.ac is disabled, it's likely just the emmintrin.h header test or something
21:08.53brlcadsince you're working on it, could add a --enable-vector-build option (that's why it's commented out)
21:09.13starseekerhmm - that's a thought
21:09.37starseekerlet me figure out why this is busted before I throw in another variable, but that sounds like a good idea
21:13.15starseekernothing convincing in conf.log diffs
21:15.25brlcadwhat about config.h themselves?
21:15.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36543 10/brlcad/trunk/ (AUTHORS NEWS): credit Emton (irc) aka icmbml (sf) with special thanks for his 1-liner patch to tabinterp. should fix a rate interpolation bug where interpolation was at fixed (incorrectly large) increments.
21:15.45starseekeronly diff is the line where HAVE_STRICT is comment out vs. defined
21:16.06brlcadthat's exactly what I would have expected ... so .....
21:16.10brlcadsomething else is going on
21:16.15starseekerdoing a clean build now
21:17.04starseekerI take it there should be no issue merging libraries built with the flags (bu and bn ) with libraries built without them?
21:17.54brlcadnope
21:18.27starseekershoot - it repeated itself
21:18.35brlcadnot even different object code output, just tells the compiler 1) to report most warnings, and 2) stop if it finds any
21:19.18brlcadtrace through just compiling that one file
21:19.46brlcadsee if it's getting to the fpu or gpu vector header for both (tossing in #error's can help)
21:20.40starseekerwait - let me see what happens if I go back, recompile libbu and bn without the flags, and do this again
21:21.46starseekerbrlcad: are you on a Mac?
21:23.16starseekerphew - OK, that still fails
21:23.28starseekerok, what'd I mess up in configure.ac...
21:33.26starseekergod this is strange
21:33.40starseekerI have teh g++ commands for both and they're identical
21:39.45starseekerbrlcad:  OK, confirmed now - switching the line from /* #undef HAVE_STRICT_FLAGS */ to #define HAVE_STRICT_FLAGS 1 in brlcad_config.h is what causes the failure
21:42.38starseekerI just have no idea why
21:43.03Emtonfyi, compiling on Cygwin I had to cp src/other/tk/win/*.h ../unix
21:44.53Emtonperhaps we can put a README_CYGWIN file in?
21:46.18EmtonI'd be happy to write a quick blurb from my pains on it.. heh
21:46.26starseekergo for it :-)
21:46.48Emtonalright, done
21:52.45*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
21:55.53starseekerhheeeellllpppp
21:56.01louipcwasup
21:57.03starseekerautoconf/automake bizarreness
21:57.06starseekerI think
21:57.31louipcheheh
21:58.41Emton.Tpo -c -o brlcad_path.lo brlcad_path.c
21:58.41EmtonIn file included from ../../include/brlcad_version.h:84,
21:58.41Emton<PROTECTED>
21:58.41Emton../../include/conf/COUNT:1:1: invalid suffix "n" on integer constant
21:58.41Emton../../include/conf/COUNT:1:3: no newline at end of file
21:59.05Emtonin the include/conf/COUNT file is 1n
21:59.16Emtonanybody know if this does anything important?
22:03.08Emtonheh, seems like all those generated files popped an n on the end wherever they came from
22:03.29Emtoncat DATE: "Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:18:59 -0500"n
22:03.59Emtoncat HOST: "nada_lada"n
22:04.22EmtonMAJOR and MINOR don't have it
22:07.23Emtonso, DATE HOST COUNT TS PATH USER  have what looks like a linefeed that never happened
22:08.33starseekerthose are autogenerated, iirc - so yeah, probably linefeed/end of line fun
22:08.49starseeker(sucks)
22:09.47Emtonyea
22:10.28Emtonthey keep getting gen'd on the fly hehe
22:14.08*** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (n=Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1)
22:15.10Emtonok, is fixed include/conf/Makefile:110 from >>> ECHO = printf %s\n
22:15.26Emtonto <<< ECHO = printf %s
22:17.02Emtonhehe.. hang on - it *likes* to have line feeds
22:17.16Emtonnot n's but real line feeds, hehe hang on
22:17.31starseekerEmton: the trick will be a solution that works in cygwin and other platforms
22:17.44Emtonyea
22:18.17brlcadstarseeker: if you take the one that works (i.e. doesn't define HAVE_STRICT_FLAGS) and run: make CPPFLAGS=-DHAVE_STRICT_FLAGS=1
22:19.34Emtonok, include/conf/Makefile: 110 ECHO = printf "%s\n"
22:19.35Emtonworks
22:20.50Emtonstarseeker could you test it on real unix/linux?
22:21.05brlcadEmton: include/conf/Makefile is autogenerated
22:21.10brlcadECHO is set during configure
22:21.20Emtonok
22:21.36brlcadthat would be an autoconf/automake bug
22:21.40Emtonon Cygwin looks like the open air format bombs
22:21.45brlcadsomething that could probably be tested for in configure.ac though
22:22.24Emtonyea
22:22.43brlcadif you look in there now, there's a section that makes sure ECHO is at least set (to accommodate an older autoconf bug where it wouldn't even set it)
22:22.59brlcadcould test if it's that printf string, and remap it to be quoted
22:24.44brlcadkind of odd they's miss something like that with \n .. might find something insightful if you read through the raw configure script to see how it gets to that point
22:25.03Emtonyea, seems basic
22:25.21Emtonalso weird that they have a ECHO_N but use plain ECHO for the linefeed
22:31.26starseekerbrlcad: Ah HA! got it
22:31.45starseekervector_x86.h and vector_fpu.h both have __attribute__ in them
22:31.59starseekerwhich is being undefed by bu.h
22:32.47Emtonanother problem src/libbu/malloc.c:505 needs count to be cast as (long)
22:32.51*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@d142-058-084-202.wireless.sfu.ca)
22:34.57brlcadAAHHHHHhhhh...
22:35.00brlcadthat makes sense starseeker
22:35.17starseekerlet me see if I can narrow the undef
22:35.34brlcadprobably shouldn't undef __attribute__ .. maybe just our BU_  attributes
22:39.00Emtonproblem at src/libbu/parse.c:2187 %V format val not recognized
22:39.07brlcadtimes like this I love emacs .. figured out what I needed, gotta love introspection
22:39.12starseekerEmton: we're working that now
22:39.20Emtonheh, oh ok
22:39.27starseekerbrlcad: hmm?
22:39.46Emtonyea, i get a bunch more errors after I changed those
22:39.55brlcadstarseeker: nothing important .. just wanted to sort a range of lines quickly, based on a field (not just lexicographic)
22:40.01Emtonresorted to make -i heh
22:40.13starseekerah
22:40.23brlcadEmton: if you make CFLAGS=-w it should work
22:40.36Emtonwhat's that -w for?
22:40.52brlcadtells it to not report warnings
22:40.57Emtonheh ok
22:41.12brlcadjust added strict compilation settings to libbu and libbn yesterday
22:41.23brlcadany warnings cause a failure
22:41.30Emtonthanks, the -i i think is ig'ing the errors
22:41.37Emtonok yea
22:41.40brlcadthe -w will make them not be errors
22:41.50brlcadotherwise it'll still fail to link
22:42.17Emtonit's going good now
22:42.19Emton=)
22:42.34starseekerbrlcad: hrm.  How do I selectively undef just the format, printf, etc. stuff?
22:42.46starseekerundef __attribute__ ((__format__)) doesn't seem to work
22:42.49brlcadthat's the BU attrs
22:43.23starseekeroh, like BU_ATTR_FORMAT12?
22:43.30brlcad__BU_ATTR... make those be conditional instead of __attribute__ itself
22:43.57brlcadalternative, make the __attribute__ in the dvec code be a __BE define too, set before it's undefd
22:45.13Emtonbtw, before i mention malloc.c:110 cast as long but perhaps should just change the format to %i? shouldn't be able to hold long infos anywayz
22:45.57brlcad110?
22:46.04brlcadthat's a blank line for me
22:46.08Emtonwhoops, malloc.c:505 in src/libbu
22:46.19Emtonmy bad
22:47.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36544 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/malloc.c: cast away the size_t to the size we're printing (thx emton)
22:47.58Emton=)
22:48.07brlcadyou could end up with long entries
22:49.28Emtonok, (long) is better then
22:49.59brlcadunsigned ;)
22:50.23Emtonhehe yea
22:50.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36545 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/malloc.c: dead ws
22:55.55starseekerso far, it looks like the compiler is complaining unless __attribute__(ignore) is defined
22:56.23starseekerhmmm
22:58.51starseekerthere we go
23:01.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36546 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: Don't want to totally undef __attributes__ - causes problems with the vector_x86.h and probably vector_fpu.h files.
23:06.45starseekerphew - nbuilding now
23:07.20brlcadyay
23:07.29starseekerthat was fun
23:09.29``Erikclean on 32 and 64, leenewx bsd and mac?
23:09.36``Erikmsvc?
23:09.58starseekerhmm?
23:10.10starseekerI'm building on Mac
23:10.58``Eriklikes to leave his src on nfs and build in /usr/tmp/ dirs simultaniously on multiple platforms to verify portability
23:11.21starseekergets confused enough doing one at at time
23:11.28``Erikhehehe
23:11.42``Erikyeah, ya seemed confused when I started bouncing around in screens to start my spread
23:12.20starseeker<snort> you had some problem with not picking up the configure.ac change
23:12.48``Erikno, I had the configure.ac change just fine, it was one of the .c files, my mods were preventing svn from updating it
23:18.03starseekerah
23:18.29starseekersighs in relief - no other issues, build finished on Mac
23:18.48starseeker``Erik: anyway, this isn't one of the toying with casting issues
23:19.02starseekerjust the build logic nuking too much stuff
23:20.17starseekerI can't recall - did someone find a clean solution to that rb_diag.c problem with the function pointer casting?
23:41.00*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
23:41.26brlcadfg
23:41.35brlcaddidn't look into it
23:41.52brlcadquick thought would be to just not print the address
23:41.57brlcadnonissue
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091119

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091119

00:39.11*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.49.189)
00:54.35``Erikhttp://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=33364  good old blue angels
01:27.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36547 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac src/other/step/configure.ac): reverse the strict-build variable to be consistent with the others, remove AC_C_PROTOTYPES (we assume c89 compliance as a minimum)
01:46.36*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.49.189)
01:55.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36548 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (fnmatch.c htond.c htonf.c interrupt.c malloc.c parse.c):
01:55.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: slew of additional warnings getting seeded out by different compilers. these
01:55.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: are mostly all related to assert() and unreachable code (due to a bug in the
01:55.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: implementation of libc's assert()), resorting to BU_ASSERT where feasible.
01:55.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: there were a few goto sections that needed rewiring too.
02:55.48starseekerkicks off another llvm-gcc compile
03:00.20starseeker``Erik: what was that other potential gcc replacement compiler you mentioned?
03:03.10starseekeroh, TenDRA
03:04.25starseekererm.  both of the main TenDRA links led nowhere from wikipedia
03:06.16starseeker``Erik: is there still active work anywhere on this system?
03:10.25louipchah who's replacing gcc?
03:10.58starseekerllvm + clang, eventually
03:15.17``Erikhrm, looks like it was abandoned a few years ago :/
03:15.42``Erikthere was a commit to the fbsd port a few days ago, but probably just keeping the ports ok :/
03:18.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36549 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/str.c: Well, it's now down to just these changes on gentoo for both libbu and libbn, so hope these are more robust across platform configs (looks like they should be...)
03:18.27starseeker``Erik: ah.  That's probably I hear so much about clang then
03:24.11starseekerbrlcad: as long as we're at it, what's the next target for strict compiling?
03:31.41``Erikdamn that was a weird southpark
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03:44.15brlcadstarseeker: just working my way down our libs list
03:45.12brlcadmeans libsysv, libpc, and librt are next, followed by the bench_dirs
03:45.35brlcadsysv should be simple, librt a bit more tedious but it's not too bad as it is either
03:46.01brlcadsrc/Makefile.am has them listed in order
03:46.21brlcadfries up a pound of bacon and continues at the warnings
03:57.33starseekercoool - llvm-gcc compile just finished on trunk
03:58.14starseekerlibpc... hmm... doesn't that have all those warning about obsolete boost stuff?
04:00.25starseekerwonders how mged would fair with strict
04:03.47brlcadstarseeker: benchmark comparison? (llvm
04:04.19brlcadlibpc does have obsolete boost warnings.. will either have to fix em or skip the lib .. but they're problems that need to be addressed regardless :)
04:25.19Emtonthinking, dam brlcad loves to eat up cpu - in a good way =)
04:25.28CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36550 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/anim.c: ws comment indent cleanup
04:28.41Emtonheh, see u like to keep the code well structured
04:29.18Emtonmaybe a "beautifier" would help?
04:38.14``Erikyeh, we use 'em
05:22.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36551 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/ (anim.c complex.c mat.c): quell a bunch of additional warnings, mostly unreliable floating point comparisons.
05:22.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36552 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/fortran.c: quell additional warning about y1 shadowing. rename all vars with a p prefix
05:38.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36553 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/mat.c: tighten up the comparisons using SMALL_FASTF .. possibly too tight and need to relax to VDIVIDE_TOL, but 'should' be fine.
05:52.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36554 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/noise.c: cleanup
06:26.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36555 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/ (noise.c plane.c plot3.c poly.c sphmap.c tabdata.c): quell a variety of verbose warnings, mostly floating comparisons and shadowed vars
06:29.25brlcadEmton: on a large codebase, it's a necessity for code survivability and maintainability
06:29.40brlcadbut yeah, I enjoy refactoring in general
06:36.08brlcadwe run a variety of beautifiers, scripts, macros .. rarely any of them do a good job without being reviewed carefully
06:45.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36556 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/vector.c: quell floating point comparison warning
06:57.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36557 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/ (vector.c wavelet.c): quell various extra warnings, particularly shadowing and floating point comparisons
07:08.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36558 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/htester.c: quell additional warnings for getting sizeof double at runtime
07:10.35brlcadthat should fix up bu/bn for this platform
07:19.44brlcadstephen found this gem to help with our lunch searchings: http://eatingtheroad.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/whereshouldieat.jpg
07:43.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1865 10/wiki/Talk:BRL-CAD_Commands:
11:53.49*** join/#brlcad cosurgi (n=cosurgi@atak.bl.pg.gda.pl)
12:01.43*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@cpc2-bexl3-0-0-cust843.bmly.cable.ntl.com)
12:05.10*** join/#brlcad parigaudi (n=quassel@pd95b7f5e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
12:41.52Emtonyea, i hear you - esp. w/this much legacy code probably difficult
12:43.24Emtonfinds his eats at happycow.net
12:43.27Emton=)
12:44.10EmtonBRL kicks ass, i've finished some prettty animations
12:44.33Emtononly had to touch up slightly in gimp
12:45.35Emtonnice-to-have would be set bg color to alpha
12:46.09Emtonbut combining BRL w/Image Magick & Gimp and perhaps Kino you got serious tools
13:16.09starseekerbrlcad: erm - have to rebuild optimized.  been a while since I benched on this machine, I'll have to do both
13:16.13starseekerstarts rebuilding
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14:12.30starseekercrud - we fail on optimized case
14:13.15starseekerhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m62486986
14:16.16starseekersees if make benchmark will run...
14:18.18``Erikheh
14:19.26starseekernope
14:20.02brlcadthat might be my tolerance tightening last night
14:20.32brlcadthat's a pretty near-zero xyz
14:30.28starseekeryou're thinking the mat.c change in libbn?
14:37.04starseekerswitches the SMALL_FASTF to VDIVIDE_TOL...
14:50.24starseekerno, that didn't do it...
14:52.27starseekermight get away with ignoring that one, the benchmark doesn't seem to use it...
14:56.35starseekerer, wow - raytrace isn't happy
15:00.12starseekerhere's the llvm-gcc compile benchmarks:  http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m480034f0
15:00.39starseekerneed to start over and see if the wrong results are the compiler
15:08.58starseekeralright, I'll have to get those results tonight
15:09.05starseeker's machine suuuucks...
15:26.32brlcadstarseeker: that zero tol is above VDIVIDE_TOL too
15:26.48brlcad0.00001 was what it was at iirc
15:27.31brlcadrunning a build/test herre
15:34.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36559 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/color.c: set to avoid gcc's "may be used uninitialized" error.
15:35.49*** join/#brlcad Yoshi47 (n=jan@firewall.walinga.com)
15:44.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36560 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (malloc.c stat.c): more uninitialized warnings quelled
16:20.53*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedyII (i=Matthew@208.43.126.194)
17:36.28starseekerhmm - we should update Keith's authorship info..
17:39.40starseekerthinks he is both active and developer
18:04.20*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
18:10.51starseekerwell, getting wrong results on the Mac too, so it looks like it wasn't llvm-gcc
18:33.55*** join/#brlcad cosurgi (n=cosurgi@atak.bl.pg.gda.pl)
18:34.17brlcadstarseeker: i'm working on a fix
18:34.57brlcadreally need a way to set the tolerance, but that's an old API
18:36.43brlcadso I can either underlay a new set of calls that support tolerancing.. (with the old calling the new with the old tolerances), punt and mod the API with an additional parameter, or make libbn tolerancing stateful with a getter/setter to mod it
18:37.32starseekeris the cleanest way to mod the API?
18:37.49brlcadof course :)
18:37.55starseekervotes for that way
18:38.07brlcadthe first is clean too (eventually), just takes a lot longer
18:38.53starseekerbut once the calls supporting tolerancing are in, the ones without it become unnecessary except to support code that hasn't been updated, yes?
18:42.19brlcadright
18:42.22brlcadinstantly deprecated
18:42.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36561 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/mat.c:
18:42.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: choosing the weakest tolerance, VUNITIZE_TOL, returns our conversion regression
18:42.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: to a working state. there are v4 stored matrices that are within default
18:42.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: computation tolerance (0.0005 -- actually around 1.0e16), but not nearly tight
18:42.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: enough for SMALL_FASTF's 1.0e-77. still failing star regression though.
18:42.48brlcadwouldn't be able to remove the old api for about a year
18:42.58brlcad(3 minor releases)
18:43.28brlcadthough arguably, there would be an alternative .. so could deprecate and remove after one release
18:44.43starseekerindeed - that fix should be quite simple for any external breakage - just stick in the previous hard coded default and the behavior becomes identical
18:45.59brlcadstar is interesting.. just 75 pixels off by many
18:47.22brlcadah, cute.. it's the shuttle craft
18:48.19brlcadah, more of the same, shuttle's matrices are 1.0e-6
19:19.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36562 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/mat.c:
19:19.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: fix the remaining tolerance failure (star regression) by restoring bn_mat_ck()
19:19.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: to it's previous 0.00001 tolerance, adding a comment as to why it cannot be
19:19.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: tightened further. can mod the api on the next minor release to add a tolerance
19:19.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: parameter.
19:42.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36563 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/util/pixdiff.c):
19:42.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: make pixdiff output the common case, where the images match, not just at an
19:42.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: ntsc-biased B&W grayscale, but make it also output at half-intensity. this lets
19:42.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: the differences really get accentuated and makes even brightly matching images
19:42.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: distinguishable from off-by-many differences.
19:47.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36564 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/pixdiff.c: minor cleanup
20:47.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36565 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/deprecation.txt:
20:47.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: expand, clarify, and simplify. remove the loose concept of 'critical functions'
20:47.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: as these rules can be applied pretty uniformly with a little clarification. one
20:47.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: clarification being that the deprecation rules apply to both user and developer
20:47.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: interface changes, but only for publicly published interfaces. be more clear
20:47.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: that changes that pass a regex search-and-replace test are generally minimally
20:47.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: impacting and okay (but still only during minor releases, not patch releases).
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22:51.47*** part/#brlcad zwiadofca (n=m_roman@77-103-117-57.cable.ubr05.donc.blueyonder.co.uk)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091120

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091120

00:00.49*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@157.26.202.84.customer.cdi.no) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
01:01.13CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36566 10/brlcad/trunk/ (10 files in 4 dirs): Start roughing out a callback approach to supplying bn_vlists to libdm. Not getting rid of drawVList yet, but adding draw and doing some basic tests.
01:09.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36567 10/isst/trunk/ (configure.ac src/Makefile.am): minor simplification of GTK+2 search
01:30.35CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36568 10/brlcad/trunk/ (11 files in 4 dirs): Convert entirely to draw from drawVList.
02:17.38starseekerstarts following the winding threads of the rtgl job system
02:21.30``Erikcareful, you may be eaten by a grue.
02:21.38starseekerno kidding
02:21.55starseekeror more probably glGrue()
02:25.32``ErikglEnable(GLX_ARB_grue_object_enable);
02:25.45``ErikglQuake3();
02:25.46``Erik:D
02:25.51starseekerhehe
02:26.18starseekerah, quake - a million ways to die, with the lava being the most probable...
02:26.27``Erikno
02:26.31``Erikmy rocket is the most possible.
02:26.33``Erikeven for me.
02:26.33``Erik:>
02:26.52starseekeryeah, rocket jumping was a kind of... dangerous art
02:26.54``ErikBr0X gibbed himself!
02:27.12``ErikI used to be pretty good at quakeworld
02:28.02``Erikwith my badass 120mhz cyrix machine, 48 megs of ram, and a 4m voodooG card crankin' that glide-gl bridge
02:28.10``Erik<-- does gansta geek handsigns
02:28.50starseekerwas slightly less imposing with his ascii quake on an i386...
02:28.59starseekerwonder if that still exists...
02:29.17``Erikhehehe
02:29.30``Eriknever did an actual 386, went from commodore 64/128 to 486
02:29.55``ErikI'd USED 286's and 386's... y'know, playing scorched earth and mechwarrior at school
02:29.58starseekerah, yes... http://www.jfedor.org/aaquake2/
02:30.25``Erik(because scorched earth was a damn good use of class time in highschool.)
02:30.35starseekercome to think of it, IIRC my monitor sucked so bad I couldn't display enough ascii characters to pull it off
02:30.38starseekerhehe
02:30.46``Erikhehehe
02:31.06``Erik<-- shows off his tatung 14" b&w vga monitor (yes, vga, not svga... max resolution of 640x400)
02:32.18``Erikat one point, I'd opened it up, turned the yoke 90 degrees and unwired some of the control circuitry, if you have a source voltage peaking in teh 45-90 range, it was an effective ghetto oscilloscope :)
02:32.25``Erikand I didn't even electrocute myself
02:32.36``Erik:D
02:32.51starseekerhehe
02:33.01starseekerwell, there goes that logical explanation...
02:33.18``Erikoh, I got through with electrocuting myself after building a strobe light
02:33.20starseekermust try ascii quake 2 again sometime
02:33.29``Erik4kv trigger pin, wee
02:33.35starseekerow ow ow
02:33.54``Erikand being as brilliant as I am, I started soldering on it at the beginning of second year electronics
02:34.35``Erikfirst and second year shared a classroom/teacher, the first year was lecture for the first half of the year, lab for the second half, then the second year was lab the first half, lecture the second
02:34.58``Erikso the day the teacher is giving his safety speech, talking about making sure to wear safety glasses while soldering, making sure everything is unplugged and discharged
02:35.11``ErikI put the soldering iron to the pcb with the strobe light still plugged in
02:35.19starseekerhow'd that go?
02:35.43``Erikkinda exploded in my face, but made an excellent supporting point for the safety lecture
02:36.01starseeker"if you doubt me, ask ``Erik..."
02:36.15``Erikloud pop, bright flash, sparks flying everywhere
02:36.50``Erikand *THAT* is the logical explanation...
02:37.22starseekerhehe
02:39.43starseekerhhmm, even more pointless:  http://www.meow.org.uk/stan/xserver/
02:40.04starseekerat least with quake it might (possibly) be the only way to get decent framerates on old hardware...
02:42.45``Erikquake did some nifty stuff with dirty tricks and raw hw access to do what was thought to be impossible
02:42.49``Erik"sliver" rendering and all
02:42.55``Erikfunky LUT's
03:28.14``Erik"they took my roommates tv and my laptop, my zune, dvd player, stereo, watch, all my dvd's,all my checks, my credit cards, my friends xbox 360, my moms digital camera, and my beard trimmer. They left the guitars and the signed footballs. What I can tell is they are musically hopeless, not sports fans, and have beards. I'm turning the evidence over to the police."
03:28.19``Erik"..you got robbed by nickelback?"
03:39.40starseekerhrm:  ../../../brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c:131: error: ignoring return value of ‘dup’, declared with attribute warn_unused_result
03:41.11``Eriksooooooo, if(dup(x)){perror("dup"); return EXIT_FAILURE;} ?
03:41.46``Erikor somethin'
03:42.02``Erikif stdin and stdout are closed, those dups will fail
03:43.43starseekerwhy is this just now warning?
03:45.06``Erikd'no? different CPPFLAGS? updates to the headers or gcc or something? code got fixed enough to get to that test?
03:45.31``Erik(if'n ya want hurt, try hitting those files with splint)
03:45.39starseekerwinces
03:45.51starseekerI'll bet
03:46.05starseeker(sshhh, don't give brlcad ideas...)
03:46.15``Erik:D
03:46.27``ErikI like to put something like this in my Makefile.am's for personal projects...
03:46.28``Eriklint:    for a in ${rand_SOURCES} ${noinst_HEADERS} ; do splint $(CFLAGS) +posixstrictlib $$a > $$a.lint ; done
03:46.59``Erikshould be on two lines, d'no why it glued 'em together heh
03:47.45``Erikthen I can do "make lint", look at the .lint files and weep profusely
03:47.46``Erik:D
03:48.48starseeker``Erik: what the hey, integrate it into the build as an optional target
03:48.54starseekermight inspire someone
03:49.03starseekeror tramatize them...
03:49.16``Erikwonder how easy it would be to abstract it out a bit to shove in Makefile.defs
03:49.47``Erik-Werror -Wall -W -ansi -pedantic causes 'nuff pain in BRL-CAD, I use those as general working flags on some of my personal projects, so *shrug*
03:50.05``Erikwe have a ways to go before going that far
03:50.15starseekerI'm sure the long term goal would be to get there - might as well have it around
03:50.19``Erikit's easy to be excessive on a toy project :D
03:50.23starseekerheh
03:50.56``ErikI think my thing uses some bashisms, though :/
03:51.52starseekerauuuuuugh - I think I just killed my comparison benchmark results
03:52.01starseekerand when the update busted the build, too
03:52.03starseekergrr
03:52.34``Erikthinks he needs to cook a metaball regression test :/
03:52.43starseekermight be a good idea...
03:52.58``Erikbeen thinking it for a while, just didn't want to admit it
03:53.55``Erikrun it in retarded accurate mode and cook a fast machine for a few days to generate reference pix files, then tune it to the right balance or something
03:54.18starseekernods
03:54.32starseekersounds like a job for the new solaris box
03:54.46``Erikhm, the 64 core one?
03:54.52starseekergrins evilly
03:55.00``ErikI'm not sure if it'd be any faster than one of the 6 new xeon boxes
03:55.06``Erikbe interesting to compare
03:55.24``Erikas soon as brlcad gets off his lazy ass and gets the solaris boxes ready for general consumption :>
03:55.37starseekerI thought at least one of them was there
03:55.50``Erikum, the opteron one is almost there I think?
03:57.18``Erikthat'd be an amusing thing for an aspiring contribute to glue together... a semi-automated VGR collector, mebbe with some php gd stuff for purdee graphs
03:57.38``Erikmake bench-upload
03:57.40``ErikO.o
04:04.16starseekererm - the if(dup) thing didn't work, but assigning the result of dup to some useless integer does
04:05.12``Erikfunky
04:05.24``ErikI wonder if if(dup()!=0) would work
04:06.30starseekerdoes disable strict because he wants is benchmark...
04:07.32``ErikI think it doesn't make sense to attempt to attach like that if any of those dups fail, that's catastrophic failure turf I'd imagine
04:07.56starseekerif ignoring return values is a cardnial sin, we're gonna have some fun with the other libs
04:08.56``ErikI'd have to check some things, but in this certain case, those dups failing may mean the os is busy exploding *shrug*
04:09.40``Erikgcc and splint have no way of groking those cases :)
04:15.41starseekersigh:  http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/academia_vs_business.png
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05:41.04brlcadwoot
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05:59.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1874 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_QuestionMarkLib:
06:01.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1875 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_help:
06:01.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1876 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_helpdevel:
06:01.38CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1877 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_helplib:
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06:11.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1880 10/wiki/Saveview: redirecting article to much better written and titled version
06:11.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1881 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_saveview:
06:13.28CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1882 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_3ptarb:
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06:16.58starseekerwell, it looks initially like llvm-gcc is a bit slower - re-running llvm-gcc with identical code and compile settings just to be sure
06:17.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1884 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_arb:
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10:48.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Aanc 07http://brlcad.org * r1899 10/wiki/Talk:MGED_Commands: Command-scheme: purpose first?
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12:46.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1904 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_tops: merge from weaker description
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13:22.02starseekerblinks
13:22.09starseekerok...
13:22.31starseekermust conclude that llvm-gcc vs gcc is a wash - looks like the differences were in the noise
13:36.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1920 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_apropos:
13:37.09brlcadstill going at it, nice
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14:15.03starseekerbastardizes the Makefiles into calling clang instead of llvm-gcc and builds again to see what breaks :-)
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14:29.44``Erikheh, microsoft trying to patent tufte's sparklines
14:40.20starseekersaw that
14:40.52starseekeractually, I owe them one - I went to amazon to check out Tufte's books and spotted a $40 copy of Lisp in Small Pieces :-)
14:51.20starseekerwow, clang actually got all the way to liboptical
14:51.41starseekernot sure if this is legit:
14:51.42starseeker../../../brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_billboard.c:117:41: error: initializer element is not a compile-time
14:51.45starseeker<PROTECTED>
14:51.48starseekerstruct bu_structparse bbd_parse_tab[] = {
14:51.50starseeker<PROTECTED>
14:51.59brlcadit lies
14:52.42starseekerfigured
14:52.49brlcadcurious though
14:53.04brlcadit should have hit other bu_structparse tables initialized the same way
14:53.12brlcade.g., the huge one in librt
14:53.27brlcadlooks
14:53.42starseekerwell, considering clang is still in development...
14:54.41brlcadnah, there's something to it
14:54.56brlcadthere's a parsetab right before it that it didn't stop on
14:55.05starseekerhmm
14:55.43brlcadinteresting, maybe because the second one indexes the first one
14:55.45brlcadbbd_print_tab[0]
14:56.01brlcadit's still constant though
14:56.37brlcadif you comment out that line, does it succeed?
14:56.53brlcadnot the bbd_parse_tab line, but the first entry
14:57.01brlcadso it's just a null tab
14:57.09starseekeryeah, it succeeds
14:58.24starseekersame deal in sh_fire.c
14:58.42starseekerclang bug?
14:59.24starseekerwell, gotta hit the road - be in in a bit
14:59.26brlcadlooks like it to me
14:59.46starseekershould report it, I suppose...
14:59.55brlcadthough the dual structparse tabs is kinda funky to me .. looks like one is the main options with names spelled out
15:00.04brlcadthen the second is shorthand option names
15:00.08brlcadso it prints clean
15:00.12brlcadyeah
15:00.30brlcadthat's probably because it's [] defined, the compiler doesn't know it's size yet
15:00.49brlcadooh.. you know what
15:00.58brlcadhave to look at bu_byteoffset() ...
15:01.07brlcadit may be getting to a non-const section
15:01.33brlcadthat's a low-level bu macro
15:01.45starseekeroooo - debugging hell
15:02.23brlcadit probably just requires a little bit a of magic
15:02.35brlcadbu.h has a section for all the compilers we know about
15:02.42starseekeroooooh
15:02.51brlcadI'm betting it just needs a diff decl
15:02.57starseekernods
15:03.58brlcadstill probably a bug, they are all constant .. but it's low-level pointer trickery to get the memory byte offset address of a struct
15:19.21brlcadyeah, that looks like it's it
15:19.55brlcadit's not smart enough yet to realize the "address - 0" is actually constant, probably needs to jump into the __INTEL_COMPILER section
15:20.34brlcadgets moving
15:33.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r36569 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/BrlcadCore.def: added bu_process_id for showshot program
15:50.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36570 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/Makefile.am: make librender depend on libgcv (thus librt, libbu, libbn, etc)
15:50.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r36571 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/showshot.c:
15:50.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: replaced index() by strchr() as recommended by POSIX.1-2008 and MSVC
15:50.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: however, i can't see the reason to determine the location of newline at all, it won't be used in the code below
15:55.28``Erikhm, the tightened up tolerances drive the tesselation routines up the wall
16:27.36brlcad``Erik: yeah, I'm going to go back and relax them .. rendering problems too
16:27.42brlcadshame really
16:27.55brlcadthat's substantially above floating point
16:28.47brlcadgoing to add a tol param to them, but that'd be a 7.18 change and we're too far into this month for that
17:01.43brlcadmissed the call
17:58.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Aanc 07http://brlcad.org * r1937 10/wiki/Talk:MGED_CMD_comb_color: New page: Argument(s) combination_name Name of the New combination Description The "comb_color" command assigns the color rgb (0-255) to the existing combination named combination_name. "New" com...
17:59.07``Erikwas a lunch query, we hit greene turtle
17:59.40``Erikwas some nice scenery there today O.o
18:08.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36572 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_tri_mc.c: jot down a rough idea of a plan for implementing marching cubes
18:22.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36573 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/rb_diag.c: rbt_debug is a bitfield, not a pointer. Use %X instead of %p
18:41.33starseekerbrlcad: hmm - kinda looks like aeVect and friends in dm-rtgl might be candidates for libbn
18:42.41``Erikbrlcad might get a kick out of http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/24437/?a=f O.o
18:43.17``Erik(solving the rowing "wiggle" problem)
18:44.59starseekerheh - he will like that
18:45.21``Erikdon't think it's the same rowing her does, but *shrug*
18:45.27``Eriks/her/he/
18:46.33``Erik(they're talking 8 man coxless rowing, I think... but reducing wiggle might help efficiency *shurg*)
18:52.17starseekerhates to rework the vector calculation stuff but knows he must to clean this up - here we go into vector land...
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19:11.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36574 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: Doesn't look as if aeUniformVect is being used anywhere.
19:28.20brlcad``Erik: heh, that's awesome
19:29.31brlcadstarseeker: they do look prime for libbn .. just maybe make sure there aren't libbn facilities already for tose too
19:30.13starseekerthe Uniform one just goes away - I don't see anything quite like the vector from ae + distance one
19:31.26starseekeradded it in test as bn_vec_ae
19:41.53brlcadnods
19:51.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36575 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bn.h src/libbn/mat.c): Add libbn routines for getting a vector from azimuth and elevation information.
20:00.30brlcadhow are vec ae and vec aed different?
20:00.42brlcadand what happens the first time someone asks for twist
20:00.59starseekerum - twist wouldn't change anything...
20:01.20starseekerae doesn't need a distance and just returns a unit vector
20:01.25starseekeraed accepts a distance
20:02.44starseekeraed is the only one I'll likely need - I just thought as long as I was there I would define the logical counterpart for the "no distance available" case
20:03.10brlcadnot a generalized way to combine the two, though?
20:03.28brlcadzero-dist for example gives ae behavior
20:03.33brlcador 1 or negative
20:03.44brlcadhm, not negative
20:04.02starseekerwell, maybe - I was going along with the bn_aet_vec and bn_ae_vec thing...
20:04.46brlcadit could be a scaling factor instead of a dist
20:04.50brlcadyeah, there is that
20:05.15brlcadso bn_vec_ae will reverse a bn_ae_vec call?
20:05.27brlcadthat's reason alone to have that one
20:05.35starseekerum, I guess in theory...
20:05.43starseekeris getting set up to test
20:05.55brlcadif it doesn't, somethings wrong :)
20:06.05starseekeragrees :-)
20:06.05brlcador it's the wrong name
20:06.21starseekerit should - just saying I haven't put 'em into rtgl yet
20:06.53starseekerhad hacked up the files moving stuff around before he realized he should move that logic, so having to reset without losing things...
20:07.20brlcadare you aware of the vmath routines?
20:07.46starseekerI'm aware of vmath, didn't know there was something specific for this in there
20:07.48brlcadV3DIR_FROM_AZEL() and AZEL_FROM_V3DIR()
20:08.01starseekerah
20:08.22starseekerer... then why does bn_ae_vec exist?
20:08.25brlcadso need to clean up our API ;)
20:08.31brlcadwe can't even find our own shit :)
20:08.55starseekerhangs head
20:09.01starseekerso which one do I go with?
20:09.14brlcadI think someone needed vec from ae, so the bn_ae_vec wasn't useful
20:09.32brlcadthen someone saw V3DIR_FROM_AZEL and made the counterpart
20:09.47starseekerah, just like I did for bn_ae_vec
20:09.49brlcadyep
20:09.58brlcadgo ahead and add it, you're already there
20:10.08starseekeralrightie... so who gets it, vmath or libbn?
20:11.17brlcadlibbn is the one lacking at the moment
20:11.36starseekernotes the mere existence of aeVect is evidence of lack of API usage - first place to look for that stuff should have been existing libs, particcularly if V3DIR_FROM_AZEL already existed
20:11.59brlcadhaving azel in vmath is kind of out of place for that file
20:12.31starseekerwonder where we're using em...
20:12.37brlcadmged is
20:12.38starseekerhere grep grep grep...
20:12.55brlcader, libged now
20:13.01brlcaddir2ae and ae2dir commands
20:14.02starseekersooo... point those a the libbn routines and clear out the vmath stuff?  or I suppose deprecate since it impacts api?
20:15.12starseekeryep, just those two
20:15.29brlcadI'd actually probably just use the vmath ones in the function's implementation
20:15.49brlcadkeeping both in the API for now
20:15.59brlcadtill libbn's docs are cleaned up and it's more clear which is best
20:16.09starseekernods
20:16.18brlcadvmath's approach is way faster as a macro
20:16.45brlcadbut then can have side-effects and is typeless
20:18.16starseekerKNEW he should have just backed the logic of aeVec down into the rtgl functions ;-P
20:19.11brlcadbut then things wouldn't actually improve.. going down the rabbit hole, wherever it leads, is how things get better ;)
20:19.15brlcadcleaning up along the way
20:20.09starseekertrue.  I suppose I knew this would come up dealing with this part of the code
20:20.58brlcadahh.. feels so good watching libbu/libbn compile cleanly
20:21.00brlcadlike a clean car ready to be driven
20:21.26starseekerare you getting that dup return value thing?
20:21.37brlcadhm?
20:22.36starseeker../../../brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c:131: error: ignoring return value of 'dup', declared with  attribute warn_unused_result
20:22.52starseekerwas getting that on my gentoo box last night
20:23.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36576 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libsysv/tcl.c: quell unused warning
20:23.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36577 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: enable strict compilation of libsysv.
20:24.16brlcadyeah, I don't get that warning, probably a newer glibc
20:24.56starseekermmm
20:25.17starseekeris about to pay the price of running cutting edge
20:25.58starseekernot really sure what to do with it - apparently we don't actually care about the return value
20:26.24starseekerjust defining a value and point the result to it worked but seemed rather crude
20:26.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36578 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/backtrace.c: add sanity check on the return value from dup to make sure it succeeded. quellage.
20:26.49starseekeroh :-)
20:26.49brlcadthe warning is just "dup might fail, you're not checking"
20:26.56brlcadso we can check
20:27.21brlcada good thing to do regardless
20:28.33starseekernods thanks :-)
20:31.53starseekerwell, rtgl seem to be behaving using bn_vec_aed
20:33.34starseekerbrlcad: I'd like to try, when I get there, switching the openGL lighting to the default raytrace lighting
20:33.45starseekerwhatever it is now doesn't seem to behave well unniversally
20:34.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36579 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
20:34.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: update todo for the next release, 64-bit windows port under way, annotation
20:34.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: primitive under way, obj-g postponed. add a new entry for adding a tolerance
20:34.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: parameter to some of the bn_ functions that have near-zero tests (but have to
20:34.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: wait for a minor release).
20:35.18brlcadstarseeker: when you get where? what? hm?
20:35.55starseekerdoing an rtgl visualization
20:36.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36580 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: OK, use the libbn routine and nix aeVec.
20:36.22starseekernick put the lighting front and center, iirc - that washes out on some platforms
20:36.50starseekerassuming it's not some other issue, of course
20:37.12brlcadahhh
20:37.15brlcadyeah, that's nfg
20:38.15starseekerit's a ways off, but once I'm there it seems like the "correct" thing to do is to use the raytracer settings insofar as they make sense
20:39.43brlcadyeah, should match
20:39.53brlcadthat's an oldie... hm
20:40.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36581 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: reconcile the libsysv target CFLAGS customization. apply the flags to the whole dir.
20:40.04brlcadworked on changing rt's default lighting many many years ago
20:40.36brlcadthere are hooks in there now for 1 light, 3 lights, .. it was tricky to get everything validating regression and still be useful defaults iirc
20:41.06starseekercouldn't the regression call out the older lights specifically?
20:51.17brlcadit could
20:51.38brlcadbut there was some issue that couldn't quickly be resolved
20:51.51brlcadand I was less adept at running down the rabbit hole that long ago
20:52.11starseekerahh.  VERY oldie :-)
20:52.33brlcadyeah, decade ago
20:52.47brlcadat least with the brl-cad codebase
20:53.00brlcadwasn't as comfortable knowing what would be impacted
21:12.00starseekerbrlcad: should I be doing checkings in an "keep rtgl working" manner?
21:12.50starseekerat some point here there's going to be some fairly radical surgery
21:16.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36582 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcVariable.cpp pcVariable.h pc_constraints.c): quell a variety of warnings and problems. floating point comparisons and virtual destruction
21:17.57brlcadstarseeker: it's a good exercise to the reader to learn to code that way even through radical changes
21:20.06brlcad"harder" if you're not used to it and can seem like more work, but it's not usually in terms of the full cost of the changes (shared knowledge among developers, documented changes, reduced risk, incremental refactoring, etc)
21:20.16brlcadpart of the concept of coding complete
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21:20.56brlcadbut that said, if you break it, no big deal at this point .. but just might be making life even harder for yourself later (short term gain for a later pain)
21:21.16starseekernods - I'll try to keep it clean
21:21.34starseekerin some sense though (job robustness to draw events) it's already broken
21:22.37brlcadif that were really true, there wouldn't have been a question ;)
21:23.38starseekerI know, I know - it does something
21:24.21brlcadwow, libpc is going to take some heavier lifting than I have time to invest
21:24.34brlcadat least with respect to warnings
21:25.12brlcadand it's not even the boost stuff
21:25.14brlcadthe classes need some cleanup work
21:26.47brlcadour headers still need work before they're fed through to a c++ compiler cleanly
21:58.16CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36583 10/brlcad/trunk/src/liboptical/sh_toyota.c: remove lots of dead code, replace PI with M_PI
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23:00.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36584 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (bezier_2d_isect.c bool.c cmd.c constraint.c): quell a variety of warnings: unused vars, floating point comparisons, missing initializers, and more. most curious were the floating point equality comparisons happening in rt_bool_final() .. need to validate regresion.
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23:13.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36585 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (constraint.c cut.c): indent, ws, comment cleanup
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00:24.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36586 10/brlcad/trunk/ (12 files in 5 dirs): Put DM_DRAW_VLIST and friends back, leave DM_DRAW - confine experiments/renames to rtgl related work for now.
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01:39.32``Eriklala lalalala lalalalalala lalalla lallal lllaAL lALlaL ALlAL alL A laLa lALal
01:39.47``Erik(smurf song gone psycho)
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02:56.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36587 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-X.c: Ooops - let's try X_drawVLlist
03:08.20starseekerbrlcad: reported to the clang guys:  http://llvm.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=5576
03:08.35starseekerwasn't quite sure how to categorize it, but it's in there
03:33.18``Erikhttp://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=43855
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04:54.21starseeker``Erik: good one :-)
04:54.31starseekerEd might like this one:  http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=572
04:56.37starseekeror this one, except it might give him ideas... http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=8060
05:03.59starseekerhmm - I must say, there is a tremendous amount of crap on there and just a few gems
05:04.49starseekerkinda like youtube
05:27.07starseekerwill let ``Erik filter out the funny stuff
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07:18.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1938 10/wiki/Talk:BRL-CAD_Commands:
07:22.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1939 10/wiki/Category:MGED_matrix_commands: New page: [[category:MGED]]
07:24.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1940 10/wiki/Category:MGED_developer_commands:
07:26.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1941 10/wiki/Category:Stubs: New page: These articles are too short and/or are missing content required to make them complete.
13:03.57``Erikheh
16:28.17brlcadstarseeker: without the define for bu_byteoffset() it looks like it's non-constant and a valid error
16:32.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1942 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_B: /* See Also */
16:49.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1943 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_regions: /* See Also */ remove broken link
16:52.06CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1944 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_c:
16:52.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1945 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_edcomb:
16:53.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1946 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_item:
16:53.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1947 10/wiki/Category:MGED_combination_commands: New page: [[category:MGED]]
16:54.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1948 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_oed:
16:55.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1949 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_r:
16:55.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1950 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_rcodes:
16:56.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1951 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_red:
16:56.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1952 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_regdef:
16:57.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1953 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_wcodes:
16:57.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1954 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_whatid:
16:57.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1955 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_edcodes:
17:01.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1956 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_comb:
18:16.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1957 10/wiki/Category:MGED_view_manipulation:
18:17.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1958 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_ev:
18:46.43starseekerbrlcad: home come gcc doesn't wipe out?
18:47.04starseekerdon't see a define for it in there except for 64 bit
18:47.36starseekerso should I delete the bug?
19:08.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03188.52.108.212 07http://brlcad.org * r1959 10/wiki/Main_Page: /* BRL-CAD Wiki */
19:58.16CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1960 10/wiki/Main_Page: undo vandalism
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21:56.04``ErikO.o
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02:22.43*** join/#brlcad maximux (n=maximux@host-cotesma-164-82.smandes.com.ar)
02:23.54starseekerresolves original bug - will refile if inserting a define (at some point) doesn't fix it
02:24.14maximuxalguien habla español??
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04:54.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36588 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/mat.c: document the ones that presently use a tolerance, even if most of them could probably use it for input/output validation
04:57.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36589 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/mat.c: ws indent cleanup
05:06.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36590 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/mat.c: main comment about need to improve tolerancing
05:23.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36591 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/mat.c: restore and relax the other two sets of tolerances that were tightened up with SMALL_FASTF. this affects raytrace results (though not regression), so relax back to previous until the tolerances can be set by the caller.
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06:06.32talcitealright. I think I'm finally in a position to get back into things here.
06:07.09talciteSo from the fedora dev feedback, I need to abstract out those libs. Not sure how I'll do it, but I'll see how it goes.
06:08.08talciteWould you guys say use the 7.16.2 release, or grab an SVN checkout?
06:14.42starseekertalcite: 7.16.2
06:15.10starseekerhmm, this is kinda interesting:  http://makehuman.blogspot.com/
06:17.37talcitestarseeker: cool. I shall begin packaging that...
06:26.59starseekertalcite: which libs need to come out?
06:27.38starseekerthought we were pretty much able to build with external libs now, as long as the versions are high enough...
06:30.37talcitestarseeker: yup, we can definitely build with external libs. They just need to be included into the fedora repos =)
06:31.29starseekerah :-)
06:31.49starseekerwas afraid for a minute they were gonna insist on pulling out the NIST step stuff and opennurbs...
06:32.21talciteahh, no, it should be ok
06:32.44starseekerrealistically neither of those are external at the moment
06:33.07talcitetkhtml3, tkImg, Utah, NIST, NURBS, TNT
06:33.31starseekerI mean NIST and NURBS
06:33.41starseekerthat's the NIST step class libraries and openNURBS, iirc
06:34.00starseekertkhtml3, tkImg, Utah and TNT are all external
06:34.40starseekerwe've made a fair number of tweaks to the NIST stuff and need to make more
06:34.50starseekeropennurbs we've made changes to as well
06:35.01starseekersome of those will go away but not all
06:35.57starseekertkhtml3 we're using the latest checkout of, not the tarball
06:38.35talcitehmm. that's good to know. I'll grab those instead
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13:25.00brlcadstarseeker: it's still a bug, but they need to know the define being used
13:25.40brlcadi mean, you can manually do the substitution that the preprocessor is doing and it should still fail
13:27.36brlcadmight help you understand what's going on too
13:28.14brlcadand if you make it use the raw address instead of a the -0 one, that probably succeeds, and you'll narrowed it down
13:28.44brlcadcould also matter if the ref'd struct is const or not
18:30.25CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1961 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_adc: not sure...
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04:09.44starseekerhmm, cool:  http://www.palomino3d.org
04:15.16starseekerwonders just how long that'll take to compile, starting with ossim...
04:33.44starseekerinteresting history of ossim:  http://www.ossim.org/OSSIM/Articles/Entries/2007/12/5_OSSIM_History.html
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11:28.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36592 10/brlcad/trunk/include/nurb.h: Updated external declaration of CrossingCount() to reflect removal of un-used argument 'ray_dir'.
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16:37.05CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36593 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/bool.c: Need to make sure (pp->pt_forw != InputHdp) before calculating 'diff'.
17:10.57CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36594 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/bool.c: k&r style, not allman style
17:22.10CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36595 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/bool.c: ws indent, style consistency, comments, formatting
18:20.01CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36596 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac include/bu.h): just use STRICT_FLAGS to match since it's not a system feature
18:31.37CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36597 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: whoops! .. definitely do NOT want to enable std=c99, especially with strict turned on
20:12.22``Erikaiht, the 30w soldering pencil was insufficient, lets see how the 400w gun fares.
20:31.04CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36598 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (10 files): quell a slew of verbose/strict warnings
20:48.30CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36599 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/libtermlib/ (Makefile.am termcap.c): if BRLCAD_DATA isn't set, it all goes to hell. instead of having cad-specific logic, just utilize B_TERMCAP only if it's defined and let the build system pass it in.
21:00.51starseekerhmm - still getting rt_boolweave complaints on havoc
21:01.11brlcadstarseeker: make clean in db dir?
21:01.21starseekertries that
21:01.30brlcadcould be something that failed asc2g
21:01.57starseekernope, still there
21:02.04starseekeryours is clean?
21:02.05brlcadthere were also really obscure changes to boolfinal, but those happened over the weekend
21:02.11brlcadhavne't tried it
21:02.21brlcadis mid-build
21:02.21starseekerdoes a clean build to be sure...
21:14.51starseekererm
21:15.06starseekerdisables strict flags in librt and tries again...
21:18.23CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36600 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db5_types.c: cleanup
21:18.25brlcadso you still get it?
21:18.41starseekerdunno yet
21:18.56starseekermy build tripped on librt ;-)
21:19.59brlcadoh, did I commit that?
21:20.10starseekerlooks like it
21:20.18starseekersure didn't turn it on :-P
21:20.57CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36601 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/Makefile.am: ah, didn't mean to enable strict in here just yet.
21:24.48starseekererm - now adrt doesn't build
21:25.48starseekeroh, wait...
21:26.16starseekerperhaps I should have cleaned rt before rebuilding with the new flags...
21:33.24starseekeroh, it's looking for things in the installed directory
21:33.25starseekerhrm
21:33.41starseekerinstalls src/other to see if that's for real...
21:34.18starseekeryep, how very odd
21:35.46brlcadhm?
21:35.58CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36602 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: mr butler wants fbclear to obey his -F advanced option on the ray-trace control panel (which probabaly should extend to the fbclear command). reported via sf feature request 1277535.
21:36.02starseekeradrt was looking for libtcl in the install directory
21:36.56brlcaderik make it use GCV instead of its sdirect dependencies
21:37.41brlcadwhich should work just fine, but maybe some linkage oddness in the .la
21:39.53starseekerwonders what -F does and looks for a man page...
21:40.38starseekerah, calling out the specific framebuffer
21:43.15``Erikhm, I thought I relied pretty heavily on transitivity
21:43.25``Erikpets his guitar with new bits and pieces O.o
21:44.26``Eriksperzal locking tuners and lace pickups O.o had to drill and solder among other horrible things, but it lives
21:46.05CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36603 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/parallel.c:
21:46.05CIA-14BRL-CAD: restructure bu_avail_cpus() to not use goto statements, instead trying any
21:46.05CIA-14BRL-CAD: method it can and just using the first one it finds that is available. move the
21:46.05CIA-14BRL-CAD: _SC_NPROCESSORS_ONLN (sysconf() approach) down below __APPLE__ since Mac 10.6
21:46.05CIA-14BRL-CAD: now supports that in addition to the original sysctl() approach.
21:46.45brlcadwhat you're doing with your "bits and pieces" while petting your guitar just sounds wrong
21:47.41yukonbobis reminded of "roses on your piano" joke... :p
21:50.41yukonbobwow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tuVSkrdjiE
21:52.41CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36604 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: meh
21:59.01brlcadyukonbob: nifty demo
21:59.33yukonbobapparently part of enlightenment...
22:09.13starseekerbrlcad: yeah, still getting havoc errors
22:12.45brlcadk
22:15.00CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36605 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/dm-rtgl.h src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c): Pack the global variables for rtgl into a struct. Not very helpful by itself but part of incremental changes to come.
22:45.48``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/~erik/20091123/small.html pheer.
23:04.48starseekerpheer the guitar or the albino cat?
23:05.07``Erikthe guitar, with its rearranged guts
23:05.25starseekeris amused by how pure white the cat is - exact contrast to our cat ;-)
23:05.36starseekerchecks guitar warily...
23:05.42``Erikhad to buy a new tool O.o my soldering iron wasn't able to cope with the pot
23:06.00``Erikheh, she's all white except for a handful ontop of her head and a black dot on her nose... the other is a tux
23:06.22starseekeris she the laptop culprit?
23:06.43starseekerwere you repairing or upgrading the innards?
23:07.00``Erikyeah, and upgrading
23:07.15starseekersweet
23:07.18``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/~erik/20091025/ cats
23:07.42starseeker``Erik: trick to decoy 'em away from the laptop - get a heating pad and lay it out in some convenient place
23:08.10starseekerdoesn't know squat about guitars - what did you upgrade?
23:09.08``Eriktuners, the 'key' part at the end that adjusts the string tension to high end locking ones, and the pickups, the devices that convert vibrating metal strings to electrical signal via magnets and wound coils
23:09.27starseekercool.  So clearer sound now?
23:09.28``Erikit's easier to string, easier to tune, holds tune a lot longer, sounds a lot better and has a MUCH longer sustain O.o
23:09.36starseekerawesome
23:09.49``Erikactually, I put hot pickups in, more powerful sound :D
23:10.12starseekerheh - looks like those two get along rather well - wonder how they decided top bunk
23:10.20starseekerfairly young?
23:10.27``Erik~6mo
23:10.32``ErikI think their selection there was mutual
23:10.32starseekernods
23:10.42starseekerthat works out
23:10.48``Erikand he likes laying ontop of my stepladder while she likes the couch next to me
23:11.18louipc``Erik: cool. what do you use to generate that photo index?
23:11.39``Erikwrote a quick little bash script, louipc
23:11.41``Erikum
23:12.01``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/~erik/files/gallery
23:12.06``Erikthere ya go, merry xmas
23:12.20louipcoh sweet
23:12.31``Erikassumes source data is 1600x1200 and in the P1010001.JPG format...
23:12.41``Erikcuz that's what my shitty camera produces... :)
23:13.31starseeker``Erik: where'd you get 'em?
23:13.47``Erikharford humane society, they were part of a litter found in aberdeen
23:13.51louipcyeah I kinda started a bash script too, I haven't found a generator that satisfies me
23:14.02``Erik(joppa road, back behind the jones junction crap)
23:14.15starseekernods. Yeah, I gotta stay away from those places, I'm a terrible sucker
23:14.34starseekerSarah got ours from the Pittsburgh humane society
23:15.29``Erikwent there one day, looking for a single adult cat, saw one that interested me 'cept for a bit of a tude, let the kittens in cages sniff my finger if they didn't have the "don't pet me, I haven't had a rabies shot" sign, the white one reached out and hugged my arm instead of sniffing
23:15.39starseekerfaked her out good - was very quiet and well behaved when she got introduced to Sarah - wasn't until she came home that the Cat Superlungs(tm) were revealed
23:16.02``Erikwent there a few days later, same deal in the adult room, looked at the ones in cages, played with these two and liked 'em, then realized they were theones that hugged the other day, so I ended up taking them
23:16.19starseekernods
23:16.34``Erikheh, "I can't keep this cat, it's too loud... please take it back?" hahaha
23:16.54starseekeroh, no - we love her.  Just amused how she faked us out
23:17.04starseekerSarah has had Siamese before, so she knows
23:17.15``Erikah, siamese tend to have a short temper iirc
23:17.30starseekerthis one is a cross with something, which apparently resulted in the black color
23:17.39``Erikhalf siamese, have satan?
23:17.43``Erikhalf
23:17.43starseekershe doesn't have too bad of a temper unless you try to brush her
23:17.55starseekeror god forbid, cut her nails
23:18.08``Erikthese both accepted getting their nails cut ok
23:18.22starseekerwe got her front claws taken out eventually - was less tramatic for everyone involved
23:18.34starseekerah, that's a relief
23:18.39``Erikthey also take liquid medicine orally well, pills and eardrops are another story
23:20.04starseekerours is older, so we haven't had to give her much so far (knock on wood)
23:20.43starseekerpicky eater though
23:20.50``ErikI think they probably all need something after the humane society, not exactly the best places O.o
23:21.08starseekeryeah, rather crowded
23:21.14``Erikmine had some kinda protozoa I had to give htem stuff for, plus she had an infected ear
23:21.26starseekerwinces ow
23:21.40``Erikyes, and the eardrops were NOT easy to apply
23:21.41starseekerhave had too many of those in my day
23:21.56starseekeryeah, cats are rather protective of their errors
23:21.59starseekerer ears
23:22.30``Erikthe stuff was liquid and had to be refridgeraged... cold water right in the ear...
23:23.57``Erikyowza, confusing stephen hawking and larry flint, low blow
23:24.29starseekererumhuh?
23:24.48``Eriksimpsons
23:25.33yukonbobwatched People vs. Larry Flint other night...
23:27.30starseeker``Erik: do yours like to wake you up in the middle of the night?
23:29.46``Erikyes
23:30.09``Erikat first, several times... now usually just at 5
23:30.25``Erik<-- ponders shifting back to 6:30 O.o can't sleep in anyways
23:30.30starseekerheh
23:31.15``Erikodd, my fish tank has a higher ph level than my tap water, evne after a bunch of ph decreaser
23:34.10starseekerfish tank + cats - that sounds like fun :-)
23:37.22``Erikthey were fascinated by the pleco before it died
23:37.41``Erikmight need to reinforce the hood for when they figure out how to get on it O.o
23:38.32starseekeryou still have fish in there, or was it just the one?
23:39.11starseekeralways like the fish that ate along the tank cleaning it - my kind of fish, earns its keep :-)
23:39.26``Erikjust one
23:39.31``Erikthat's a pleco
23:39.49``Erikplecostomus
23:39.53starseekernot familiar with that type
23:39.57starseekergoogles
23:40.09``Erik"sucker fish"
23:40.24starseekerah, cool
23:40.40starseekeryeah, I'll bet they liked that :-)
23:41.20louipcyukonbob: any good?
23:45.15yukonboblouipc: ?
23:45.30louipcyukonbob: the movie?
23:45.52yukonboblouipc: ah -- yes, it is.
23:46.07``Erikplecos typically sit very still for long chunks of time, then move rapidly for a brief period, then go still again.. very attractive to cats, moreso than just plain old constant swimming, I imagine :)
23:46.07louipccool
23:46.17yukonboblouipc: highly recommended.
23:48.07starseekeryeah, jerky sudden movement gets their curiosity up
23:50.29starseekergrrr... whadya mean invalid address? where'd my memory go?
23:51.57``Erikmakes sure the sdram is pushed allt he way to the back of his bag and looks around
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091124

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091124

00:01.38starseekerI guess it might be getting freed as part of the freeing of the dm context, but...
00:01.49starseekergotta be leaking memory here...
00:02.25starseekerno, not getting freed... what the...
00:03.39starseekerok, forget it...
00:04.19``Erikbeat it with valgrind or something? (assuming you're on leenewx, so no awesomeness like dtrace or the osX malloc guard
00:04.45starseekeron mac, but I don't know why I'm losing it
00:04.51starseekerpointer is still there...
00:05.07starseekerunless it's getting mangled somehow perhaps
00:05.10starseekerhowever, may not need that approach
00:06.48``Erikthere're a bunch of environment variables that make osX do nutty stuff, like MallocGuardEdges, MallocScribble, MallocStackLogging, etc
00:10.45CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36606 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: Be sure to reset everything to its intial state in rtgljobs when closing. May have some memory issues to check into here.
00:16.06*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.48.97)
01:17.59``Erikgrooves to pomplamoose
01:29.13*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (i=1000@s142-179-54-198.bc.hsia.telus.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
02:14.29CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36607 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: Ugly in that it throws out previous work, but this should at least let rtgl function when someone draws a second object while the first one is still in progress (i.e., it beats crashing.)
02:17.00starseekerwoot
02:17.14starseekernow let's see how it's crashing on my gentoo box...
02:17.24starseekerheads home
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05:35.13starseekererm... ../../../brlcad/include/brlcad_version.h:153: error: ‘brlcad_ident’ defined but not used
06:00.31*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
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11:00.39CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36608 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/OpenNurbsInterfaces.cpp: Cleaned up Circle and Parabola curve generation code to build from bezier similar to the ellipse and hyperbola.
13:22.40starseekerhmm - rtgl segfaults on gentoo for no clear reason
13:22.59starseeker0xb7faa7a0 in shootJobs (jobs=0xbffe9af0) at ../../../brlcad/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c:1472
13:23.14starseekerbut when I go in with gdb all the values seem to be sane enough...
13:39.14starseekergrr
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15:22.23CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36609 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/OpenNurbsInterfaces.cpp: some code cleanup and WS formatting
15:26.43brlcad``Erik: louipc: imageindex is pretty nify little script for making a gallery on the fly
15:26.46brlcadhttp://www.edwinh.org/imageindex/
15:27.14brlcadexample, http://brlcad.org/~sean/images/
17:09.17CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36610 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 2 dirs): Added dm_drawLine3D and dm_drawLines3D.
17:10.28CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36611 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c: Added data_axes command.
17:17.53CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36612 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/Ged.tcl: Added data_axes and lastMouseRayPos methods.
17:30.57CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36613 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Minor mod.
17:32.53CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36614 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Modify mrayCallback_cvo to do a vslew if no objects were hit (i.e. same as original view center op).
17:35.32CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36615 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: Added gas_num_data_points and gas_data_points members to struct ged_axes_state. Also added gv_data_axes member to struct ged_view.
18:05.58``Erik*burp*
19:02.01louipcbrlcad: nice thanks
19:15.45``Erikfeck
19:16.02``Erikmanaged to go so long without touching that file :(
19:16.05CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36616 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/librt/librt.3 src/librt/prep.c): Query the LIBRT_DEBUG environment variable to add additional debugging flags. Some third party applications do facilitate setting these flags and are difficult to debug.
19:21.08``Erikdoh, "some third party applications do NOT facilitate setting these..."
19:21.17brlcadahh
19:22.35``Erikthough the application I'm thinking of would probably be more difficult if they actually did attempt to set the values *cough* O:-)
19:24.57``Erik<-- isn't sure if it'd be better as rt_g.rt_debug |= val; or if(rt_g.rt_debug==0)rt_g.rt_debug = val;
19:48.24brlcadhm, i'd expect it to be an override so you can always get exactly what you want
19:48.46brlcadi.e., rt_g.rt_debug = LIBRT_DEBUG
19:51.34``Erikbut if I forget I have LIBRT_DEBUG set to, say, 1 and do rt -X f ktank.g tank, losing 3 debug flags would ... suck and be confusing
19:52.06``Erikif any overriding is done, -[Xx] should override LIBRT_DEBUG imho
19:55.51brlcadso warn that LIBRT_DEBUG is set
19:57.25brlcadagree that command line should override env flags, just saying if it's set, it shouldn't "blend them"
20:02.13CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36617 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: Fixed typo.
20:07.38CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36618 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/prep.c: discard environment debug flags if application debug flags are specified.
20:17.40brlcadstarseeker: I did get my build back and can reproduce the failure
20:17.49brlcadjust so ya know
20:21.09CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r36619 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: Another @svn diff# typo.
20:21.41starseekerbrlcad: cook, thanks
20:30.14brlcadhm, not the boolfinal changes
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20:46.57starseekerer, cool even
20:47.06starseekershould learn to type someday
20:47.28starseekerbeautiful - rtgl works on both Mac and Redhat here
20:47.56starseekerconsiders ignoring his gentoo box and declaring victory...
20:51.10starseekerI have a feeling gentoo is being much more picky about the letter of the law when it comes to dereferencing and re-referencing pointers...
20:51.14starseekerick
21:02.46``Erikdang ricer
21:27.25CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36620 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: Try using a local variable 'used' insted of the pointer stuff...
21:32.13CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36621 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/complex.c:
21:32.15CIA-14BRL-CAD: well there's yer problem. the complex math routines used during
21:32.17CIA-14BRL-CAD: rt_poly_findroot() are rather sensitive to being cast to a long. this halts
21:32.19CIA-14BRL-CAD: build with strict set but gets things going again (with: make STRICT_FLAGS=) for
21:32.23CIA-14BRL-CAD: the observed havoc tail failure until it can be improved.
21:34.52CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36622 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/complex.c: replace ABS() with fabs()
21:44.32CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36623 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: No, it makes sense to work with the used variable in place...
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23:29.03``Erik*stretch*
23:30.25CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36624 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/complex.c: minor ws brace cleanup, isolating comparison issue
23:47.17CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36625 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/complex.c:
23:47.17CIA-14BRL-CAD: refactor the SIGN() macro into oblivion. keep track of the original real and
23:47.17CIA-14BRL-CAD: imaginary parts (critical for the last sign test) and preload the read (should
23:47.17CIA-14BRL-CAD: provide a better compiler hint for performance) so we can independently update
23:47.17CIA-14BRL-CAD: the stored real/imaginary components as needed.
23:56.43CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36626 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (brlcad_path.c crashreport.c): wrap the popen calls with STRICT_FLAGS protections since they are not c99 functions. this allows libbu to now compile cleanly in strict c99 mode (at least on linux with gcc4).
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091125

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091125

00:51.41CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36627 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ (bot_shell-vtk.c dxf/g-dxf.c iges/main.c): wth, de-knrify main()
00:53.02``Erikbleh, I just wrote some java
00:53.07``Eriklooks for a drink O.o
00:56.18brlcadyou dirty ditry person
00:56.28CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36628 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
00:56.28CIA-14BRL-CAD: make the gcv_region_end callback take a dummy struct for passing back the
00:56.30CIA-14BRL-CAD: callback writer function instead of casting that function unportably through a
00:56.34CIA-14BRL-CAD: void*. this is dumb quellage but allows libgcv to go strict too. (TODO:
00:56.36CIA-14BRL-CAD: refactor the gcv callback)
00:56.47brlcadand shame on you for copy-pasting a k&r function signature :)
00:56.57brlcad(g-stl -> g-egg)
00:58.52``Eriktry { return true; } finally { return false; }
00:58.56``Erikheh, doh
00:59.11``Erik'cept it was a file copy and some :%s///g stuff
01:00.30brlcadd-lo: body count is 1100 now ... hehe, he is legend
01:00.49``Erik<-- needs to pick up that book
01:01.56``Erikwatches V
01:30.26starseekerrealizes it's been a while since the last v8 branch sync...
01:55.11CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36629 10/brlcad/branches/rel8/ (574 files in 42 dirs): Sync rel8 tree to trunk r36628
02:18.31CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36630 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/TODO: Start putting together a comparison list of MGED and Archer functionality.
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02:25.14talciteis there a bug in our build script?
02:25.30talciteI'm getting a compile error with mock, on a configuration that had worked previously
02:25.47talcitemkdir -p `dirname articles/en/images/tire_fig14.png`
02:25.47talciteXML_CATALOG_FILES=../../doc/docbook/catalog.xml  -nonet -xinclude -o articles/en
02:25.47talcitesl articles/en/build_pattern.xml
02:25.47talcite/bin/sh: -nonet: command not found
02:26.08talciteand then it just goes downhill from there. The line doesn't seem to be valid anyways
02:26.14``ErikI imagine that means fop isn't being found, but it's trying to use it anyways
02:26.19starseekertalcite: do you have xsltproc?
02:26.27starseekerno that's the xsltproc line
02:26.27``Erikbeat starseeker with a blunt instrument until it works again :D
02:26.42starseekeryou can disable the extra documentation
02:26.49starseekeravoid all that
02:27.08talcitestarseeker: I do have xslt
02:27.16talcitewell libxslt atleast
02:27.41starseekeryou need the command xsltproc
02:27.47``Erikit needs the xsltproc binary
02:27.53talciteI just double checked, I have the binary as well
02:28.00starseekererm
02:28.09talcitehmm wait. I'm building in a chroot jail
02:28.14starseekercheck your configure
02:28.29talciteyeah. Let me see what's going on here. I didn't get any configure errors as far as I know though
02:29.11talciteaww crap I left my specfile on campus
02:29.19starseekeryou may see a warning about xsltproc not being found
02:29.42talcitehmm. give me a sec
02:30.08starseekerthat SHOULD have turned off the docbook building, but it's even money the new Makefile messed it up somehow...
02:30.23starseekerbetter than even, actually
02:30.42talciteI'm not sure the configure is actually testing for xsltproc
02:30.55talcitea grep on the output log turns up nothing
02:31.37talcitebesides, shouldn't that line be better formed? It's not actually calling xslt, it's calling -nonet, which shouldn't be valid
02:32.01starseekerthe makefile is triggering with the XSLTPROC variable empty
02:32.08talciteoh...
02:32.17talcitehmm, well the configure output didn't say anything
02:32.17starseekerthat's why it's trying to execute that line - it's substituting "" for XSLTPROC
02:32.27starseekerweird
02:32.52starseekertry explicitly disabling the extra docs and see if that works
02:33.07talcitecan't. Left the specfile on my laptop X)
02:33.36starseeker--disable-documentation to configure
02:33.42starseekeroh
02:33.48starseekerok, well when you get a chance :-)
02:34.13starseekercan't imagine why it's not finding xsltproc if its in your path...
02:34.30talciteit may be the whole chroot building
02:34.44talciteI'm using mock and I don't think I have libxslt in my buildrequires
02:34.52starseekerah
02:34.58talcitethe previous version built fine without it though. is this xml stuff new?
02:35.04starseekeryeah, that might be good to add if you want the extra docs :-)
02:35.13starseekerwhen's the last time you built?
02:35.27talcite7.14 svn head
02:35.30talcitesometime in august
02:35.32starseekererm
02:35.49starseekerthere've been extensive changes to the docbook build logic
02:36.20starseekerdunno how it would have reacted before to your environment - might be worth a test with the older version to see
02:36.31talcitewell the older ver works, that I'm sure of
02:36.49starseekerthen the older version saw xsltproc
02:36.53starseekeror quietly ignored the docbook xml build
02:37.15talciteI see. Well lets see what happens tomorrow.
02:37.27talciteI should really set up an SVN repo or something for this
02:37.28starseekernods
02:37.45talcitealways forgetting to sync my work
02:39.20starseekerbest of luck - if you run into a problem again tomorrow let us know and we'll see if we can figure it out
02:39.31starseekershould get outta here...
02:39.59starseekerdoes - later all
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04:12.17CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36631 10/brlcad/branches/dmtogl/ (configure.ac doc/docbook/): Hrm, merging updates won't be so simple here. Take the incremental approach.
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04:44.45CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36632 10/brlcad/branches/dmtogl/: Ugh. Much faster to just remove and merge in the togl specific stuff again.
04:45.57CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36633 10/brlcad/branches/dmtogl/: Recreate the dmtogl branch with latest trunk as a start
05:09.45CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36634 10/brlcad/branches/dmtogl/ (56 files in 6 dirs): Add back in initial togl related code.
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13:27.31CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1962 10/wiki/NetMsgTypes: /* Common Header Byte Format */
14:03.26``Erikstarseeker: rtgl seems to compile on fbsd7
14:04.38starseeker``Erik: cool
14:04.42starseekerdoes it run?
14:05.04``Erikdunno
15:47.18``Erikhehehe "Linux is for people who like to install stuff"
16:35.46CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36635 10/rt^3/trunk/ (15 files in 6 dirs): Mods to netMsg inheritance. Added more a comprehensive tester.
16:40.16CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36636 10/rt^3/trunk/ (include/Utility/Utils.h src/utility/ src/utility/Utils.cxx): Added Utils class.
16:48.55CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36637 10/rt^3/trunk/ (14 files in 2 dirs): Add Generic*Msg classes for extensibility
17:11.04CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1963 10/wiki/Failure: New page: {{DesignDocument}} ==Description== [[IBME_GeometryService#NetMsg_Class|NetMsg]] that is a response to a previously sent [[IBME_GeometryService#NetMsg_Class|NetMsg]] subclass to inform the...
17:11.12CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1964 10/wiki/NetMsgTypes:
17:18.43CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1965 10/wiki/NetMsgTypes: /* NetMsg MsgTypes */
17:22.22CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1966 10/wiki/Success: Testing the Summary field for CIA
17:24.10d-lobrlcad: I got a policeman hold up in a building, offing zombies like its going out of style.  Me thinkgs I might make, or even break, your 77 zombies per cop ratio!
17:35.25d-loWoot!  103.75 zpc average :)
17:43.40CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1967 10/wiki/NetMsgTypes: Added Generic*Msg Template linkage
17:56.50CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1968 10/wiki/GenericOneByteMsg: Added Description
17:56.52CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1969 10/wiki/GenericTwoBytesMsg: Added Description
17:56.55CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1970 10/wiki/GenericFourBytesMsg: Added Description
17:56.59CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1971 10/wiki/GenericOneStringMsg: Added Description
17:57.06CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1972 10/wiki/GenericMultiByteMsg: Added Description
18:04.25CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1973 10/wiki/NetMsgTypes: Added links to IBME_NETWORKPROTO_STRING
18:05.17CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1974 10/wiki/GenericOneStringMsg: Added links to IBME_NETWORKPROTO_STRING
18:08.30CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1975 10/wiki/IBME_NETWORKPROTO_STRING: Added page for 'String'
18:22.06CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1976 10/wiki/RemHostNameSET: Fixed Typo and added link to IBME_NETWORKPROTO_STRING
18:25.39CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1977 10/wiki/NewHostOnNetINFO: Modifed Byte Format
18:31.22CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1978 10/wiki/GeometryREQ: Added link to Generic
18:35.05CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1979 10/wiki/GeometryCHUNK: Added links to Generics
18:37.40d-loNice 136.00 zpc.
18:38.46CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1980 10/wiki/NewHostOnNetINFO: Added links to Generics
18:40.46CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1981 10/wiki/NewSession: Added new page for NewSessionMsg
18:43.42CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1982 10/wiki/FullHostListREQ: Added page for FullHostListREQMsg
18:48.49CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1983 10/wiki/FullHostList: Added page for FullHostListMsg
18:50.29CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1984 10/wiki/NetMsgTypes: Drop INFO from name.
18:52.18CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1985 10/wiki/NewHostOnNet: Added new Page for NewHostOnNetMsg
18:52.41CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/delete: deleted "[[NewHostOnNetINFO]]": Renamed to NewHostOnNet
18:55.40CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1986 10/wiki/Failure: Added references to Generics.
18:56.24CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1987 10/wiki/Success: Added references to Generics
18:56.30d-logo go gadget wiki editing!
18:58.22CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1988 10/wiki/RemHostNameSET: Added references to Generics
18:59.54CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1989 10/wiki/NewHostOnNet: Clarified field usage.
19:01.11CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1990 10/wiki/NewSession: Clarified field usage.
19:02.26CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1991 10/wiki/GeometryREQ: Clarified field usage.
19:02.54CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1992 10/wiki/GeometryCHUNK: Clarified field usage.
19:05.24CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36638 10/rt^3/trunk/src/tests/java/: Removing old Java classes. Antiquated and unused.
19:05.58CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36639 10/rt^3/trunk/include/GS/netMsg/RemHostNameSetFailMsg.h: Missed this remnant of latest refactor.
19:14.07CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36640 10/rt^3/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Implement SuccessMsg
19:14.33``Erikzpc?
19:16.06CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r1993 10/wiki/NetMsgTypes:
19:16.12d-loZombies Per Cop
19:16.15d-lokill ratio
19:16.17d-lo:)
19:16.21``Erikah
19:16.34CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36641 10/brlcad/trunk/ (12 files in 12 dirs): Update svn:ignore in a variety of places
19:16.48d-loI've got rambo goihnng right now.  1 cop vs 15.5k zombies.
19:19.35*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (i=1000@s142-179-54-198.bc.hsia.telus.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
19:19.54CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36642 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/: Oh yeah, .1 man pages too.
19:22.39CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36643 10/brlcad/branches/dmtogl/ (12 files in 12 dirs): Update ignore settings in dmtogl branch
19:31.17d-lolol 234.375 zpc.  Rambo finally died a horrible death.
19:31.52``Erikurl again?
19:32.58d-lohttp://www.class3outbreak.com/zombie-outbreak-simulator/
19:34.44``Erikexception id 2134 name: error message: error #2134 function onApplicationComplete Step: j ... :/
19:35.35d-lobummer :/
19:35.46d-loHave a happy t-day all!
20:06.38*** join/#brlcad mafm_ (n=mafm@cpc2-bexl3-0-0-cust843.bmly.cable.ntl.com)
20:11.51``Erikstarseeker: http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/
20:36.31starseeker``Erik: heh, cool.  yeah, the problem with that site is it doesn't have a clear licensing policy that I can see
20:43.28``Erik*shrug* saw it on hn, figured I'd share
20:58.30*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@91.20.227.125)
21:32.47brlcadhah, that is fantastic .. d-lo  .. zombies starting: 2000  civilians: 1000 .. all converted (because none could shoot)..
21:33.07brlcadzombies remaining: 64 .. 1 cop kill count: 2937  :)
21:33.55brlcader, 63 :)
21:53.02CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36644 10/brlcad/branches/dmtogl/ (4 files in 2 dirs): More dmtogl tweaking and setup.
21:56.56CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36645 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfft/ (Makefile.am ditsplit.c): ws indent cleanup, increased precision on sqrt defines
21:58.14CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36646 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfft/ditsplit.c: get rid of globals
22:01.53CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36647 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfft/ (ditsplit.c ditsplitc.c): sync up similar ws changes
22:31.08CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36648 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfft/fftfast.c: use M_PI instead of PI and clean up ws/indent in the process.
22:32.08CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36649 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfft/ditsplitc.c: these globals are referenced by the application front-end for printing a summary status, so they have to be global or passed in.
22:34.33CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36650 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfft/fft.h: provide math.h and M_PI for everyone
22:35.26*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@d142-058-085-103.wireless.sfu.ca)
22:35.26CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36651 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfft/fftfast.c: moved M_PI to fft.h
22:35.38*** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (n=Enigma@64.136.216.213)
22:36.37CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36652 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfft/ (fftc.c fftest.c ifftc.c splitditc.c): oops, looks like strict flags were already committed enabled. quell strict compilation warnings.
22:40.19CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36653 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfft/ (ditsplit.c ditsplitc.c fft.h splitdit.c splitditc.c): use fft.h for INVSQ2 and SQRT2 too
22:42.40CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36654 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfft/ (ditsplit.c ditsplitc.c fft.h splitdit.c splitditc.c): use the standard defines M_SQRT1_2 and M_SQRT2 instead of previous
22:45.07brlcadwoo hoo, another strict lib
22:45.17CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36655 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfft/ (ditsplitc.c splitditc.c): use fft.h instead of hard-wiring the value
22:47.54CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36656 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfft/fftest.c: remove embedded pi value
22:49.58CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36657 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 2 dirs):
22:49.58CIA-14BRL-CAD: Wrap up all the boilerplate for the dm template declarations into a macro,
22:49.58CIA-14BRL-CAD: except in the case of Windows where the type signatures are different - is this
22:49.58CIA-14BRL-CAD: a requirement of the Visual Studio compiler? Anyway, simplify the process of
22:49.58CIA-14BRL-CAD: syncing this across multiple dms.
23:00.34CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36658 10/brlcad/trunk/src/liborle/rle.c: ws indent style cleanup
23:03.51CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36659 10/brlcad/branches/dmtogl/src/other/togl/ (. configure): Minor cleaups of togl within svn tree.
23:04.37CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36660 10/brlcad/trunk/src/liborle/ (Makefile.am rle.c): quell single verbose warning about unreached code (due to constant and macro expansion), enable strict compilation
23:05.10CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36661 10/brlcad/branches/dmtogl/src/other/togl/: More svn:ignore togl tweaks.
23:07.12CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36662 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpkg/ (Makefile.am tcl.c): quell unused var warning, enable strict compilation. clean compile at least mac.
23:10.04CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36663 10/brlcad/branches/dmtogl/ (21 files in 5 dirs): Grab the libdm changes from trunk, pull other updates as long as we're doing it.
23:11.06brlcadmmmm.palindrome.emordnilap.mmmm
23:11.24starseekerhehe
23:13.54``Erikdang bastages, makin' a mess of the code
23:16.32CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36664 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpkg/pkg.c:
23:16.32CIA-14BRL-CAD: quell a handful of verbose/c99-strict compilation warnings including avoiding
23:16.32CIA-14BRL-CAD: fileno(), skipping the superset isascii() test used with isprint(), and avoiding
23:16.32CIA-14BRL-CAD: using caddr_t (tested on linux and mac to just cast to void* instead)
23:17.12brlcadcool, 7 lib dirs now compile strict c99 with full warnings
23:17.19starseekersweeet
23:18.10starseeker``Erik: you could always bring your two experts into play and have them walk on the keyboard ;-)
23:18.20``Erikhah
23:18.23``Eriknah
23:18.39``Erikdon't wanna give you competition ;> *duck*
23:19.26CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36665 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtermio/ (Makefile.am termio.c): quell all verbose compilation warnings, enable strict flags
23:19.33starseekerlooks active but is mostly cleaning up svn:ignore and syncing branches before the holiday - brlcad's the one doing real damage
23:20.11starseekertook your macro idea for a test spin
23:20.23``Erikhm, I imagine there'll be like 3 people in the building on friday, so'z probably not going to lunch that day *does finances*
23:23.29CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36666 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtermio/termio.c: ws, indent, style cleanup
23:25.19CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36667 10/brlcad/branches/rel8/ (36 files in 18 dirs): Sync rel8 to latest trunk, mostly to get the svn:ignore stuff.
23:44.00CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36668 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-ogl.c: restructure to avoid all forward declarations as an example for the other DMs
23:48.28CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36669 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-ogl.c: more restructuring to remove a couple other forward decls, clean up comments/indent/ws
23:50.12CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36670 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-ogl.c: egads, shouldn't set vars to HIDDEN .. that static keyword means something else...
23:50.55CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36671 10/brlcad/trunk/include/dm.h: quell warning
23:56.36``Erikstill get compile errors(warnings) in libgcv O.o
23:58.04CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36672 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-wgl.c: those are wrong! .. bad HIDDEN, need to be static.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091126

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091126

00:00.57brlcaddown to just 36 zombies remaining, 2964 zombies per cop kills
00:01.37brlcadoh hnoes.. looks like they actually got him! hah
00:02.05brlcadahhhh, never mind.. there he is.. hidden under the google logo
00:08.16CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36673 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/tcl.c: restructure to avoid forward decls, mark unused parameters
00:09.21CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36674 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/tcl.c: ws
00:19.55CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36675 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtermio/termio.c: ws cleanup, break out TAB3 and XTABS
00:38.40*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.48.97)
00:59.27CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36676 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtermio/termio.c:
00:59.27CIA-14BRL-CAD: refactor the antiquated tab-expansion logic to work even if there is no tab
00:59.27CIA-14BRL-CAD: support (strict c99 mode). try TAB3 if we can, or one of several other variants
00:59.27CIA-14BRL-CAD: until we either find something otherwise punt and disable support on our end
00:59.27CIA-14BRL-CAD: too.
01:01.20CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36677 10/brlcad/trunk/include/pkg.h: uname shadows a global
02:06.04CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36678 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ (tclcadAutoPath.c tkImgFmtPIX.c): quell warnings
02:23.56CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36679 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/dm.h src/libdm/axes.c): mark thy constness. rmat can be const.
02:24.26CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36680 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c: quell warnings, make functions use HIDDEN
02:35.45CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36681 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/iges/g-iges.c: c99 dictates the use of S_ISDIR() instead of accessing the S_IFDIR mask directly
02:38.39*** join/#brlcad Don__ (n=Don@c-71-238-51-148.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
02:40.39CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36682 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: ws indent cleanup
02:43.48CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36683 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: c99 compliance, no popen() available so don't rely on it.
02:46.20CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36684 10/brlcad/trunk/src/sig/dfft.c: ws cleanup
02:48.11CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36685 10/brlcad/trunk/src/sig/dfft.c: use STDIN_FILENO and STDOUT_FILENO to be c99 compliant.
02:52.22CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36686 10/brlcad/trunk/src/sig/syn.c: ws cleanup, add vmath.h for M_PI (in case we're c99 strict), reorder to remove decl.
03:03.31CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36687 10/brlcad/trunk/bench/pixcmp.c: declare the getopt bits, cleanup, remove pixdiffish comment
03:18.39CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36688 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/TODO: note a handful of immediate impression issues provoked by feedback from a user (andre anckaert). bad help and missing commands.
03:30.34CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36689 10/brlcad/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): try a manual edit of the sole 'Crossbow' reference in the windows chm file.. couldn't find where BRL-CAD Commands was coming from, though.
03:34.18starseekerblinks - a chm file? I hadn't noticed that
03:34.30brlcadburn it!
03:34.33starseekerno kidding
03:34.50brlcadonly noticed myself after grepping the file tree for Crossbow
03:35.01starseekerthought it was just a funky html until the only dell printer manual I could find turned out to need a special app to read...
03:35.48brlcadit is basically
03:35.50brlcadcompiled html
03:35.51starseekermakes note to pester Bob into getting tkhtml3 working on Windows - then we can bring in the html viewer and nuke that sucker
03:36.33starseekerhowever, since I have the viewer I can check the contents...
03:37.23``Erikchm? really? does windows even use those anymore?
03:37.52starseekersnorts - no, I think they noticed it had been decoded and thought up something else...
03:38.02CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36690 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/TODO: archer docs should not be in chm format (even for windows)
03:38.08brlcadthere's another change that chm needs.. calls them "BRL-CAD Commands"
03:38.17starseekererm... Needed file /Archer/Archer_Introduction.htm is not present in this CHM archive
03:38.28brlcadlovely
03:38.41brlcadthought I saw a slew of file refs
03:41.10*** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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03:41.10*** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (n=Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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03:41.10*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
03:42.08starseekerextract_chmLib does something with it...
03:42.40starseekerwhat the bleep...
03:42.40starseekerwhat is a .brs file
03:42.49starseekersees some htm and css in there...
03:43.48starseekeroh, peachy
03:43.56starseekera lot of the htm files are zero size
03:44.02starseekerfines a non-empty one...
03:44.13brlcadthem html2docbook? :)
03:44.22starseekeractually...
03:44.49starseekerthe only actual content looks like  what we're doing in system/man1/en - per-command htm files
03:44.58starseekerreads...
03:46.09starseekerwhat the hell
03:46.23starseekerthe non-zero length items are filled with spaces??
03:47.45starseekervotes we delete that sucker
03:49.59``Erikwonder how legal eliminating trailing whitespace on ALL files would be
03:49.59starseekerhere's everything extrach_chmLib got out of it: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d7e84429e
03:50.16``Erik:%s/[ \t]*$//
03:50.48``Erikfind . -type f | xargs sed -e -i.bak 's/[ ^I]+$//'
03:50.48``Erik?
03:51.05starseekerhmm?
03:51.11starseekerwhat, run that on the results?
03:51.32``Erikany and all? I dunno, I'm not really reading what you're typing :D
03:51.40starseekerah
03:52.07``Erikya said something about a non-zero length item that was just spaces? would terminating trailing whitespace make it a zero length item?
03:52.08starseekerI mean no tool I have shows any indication of there being ANY useful content in that chm file
03:52.16starseekeroh
03:52.32starseekermaybe, but the idea was to find even one file that says something intelligent
03:53.04starseekersees no signs of it, and it looks like even what was once there will be supplanted by the man page work
03:53.30starseekerbrlcad: if you're still at work, can a Windows box do anything with it?
03:53.52brlcadstarseeker: i'll test here in a couple min
03:53.59starseekerWOOT - Lisp in Small Pieces arrived
03:54.09starseekersomewhat battered, but intact and fully legible
03:54.34starseeker``Erik: I'm battling back towards Lisp Respectibility
03:54.56``Erikheh
03:55.18``Eriky'know, at first, I was really excited, but then after reading and skimming, I'm less impressed
03:55.30starseekerreally?
03:55.43starseekernot detailed?
03:55.45``Erikmebbe it's because I've had it sitting down for so long
03:55.58``Erikit had reasonable detail, but nothing staggering to it?
03:56.08``ErikI have it and pcl on my coffee table, though
03:56.17``Erikgets the girls all worked up, ch'know
03:56.36starseekerI understood the idea was to document at a very low level what it took to make a lisp implementation
03:57.07``Erikyeh, but other texts have that, too
03:57.21``Erikit really doesn't take much at all
03:58.21starseekerraises eyebrow
03:58.27starseekerglad I didn't blow $100 on it then
03:58.51starseekernuts, shoulda waited longer and bought your copy off ya ;-)
04:04.06``Erikhehehe, I d'no, it may've been that I bought it to answer some pretty specific questions and wasn't satisfied to those specific answers *shrug* I d'no
04:05.08brlcadhm, i don't want to log into windows.. leave it for bob later
04:07.44``ErikI'm telling him you said tht
04:08.10``Erikhe'll park his truck ontop of your car in retaliation O.o
04:08.56brlcadhttp://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/11/the_great_muppet_bohemian_rhapsody_cover.php
04:09.33``ErikI've seen topless robot before O.o
04:12.33``Erikhrm, is there a cognative difference between "sci-fi" and science fiction?
04:14.58``Erikohhh, they had one about generating the computer graphics used in the original star wars trilogy, that's right
04:15.11``Erikusing a projector and vector displays
04:15.19``Erikand giving up on using a computer at one point
04:37.26starseeker``Erik: isn't it sy-fi now or some such nonsense?
04:40.21``ErikI meant "sci-fi" the genre, not "SciFi" the tv network
04:40.30``Erikbut tyat is "SyFy" now
04:40.43``Eriksince that STOPPED SHOWING SCIENCE FICTION
04:40.51``Erikand just do horror shit and plain old shit now
04:57.41*** join/#brlcad Aeamus (n=Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1)
05:00.59CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36691 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtermio/termio.c: ifdef header test, not just if
05:39.29brlcadwoot, we now compile c99 strict (albeit with slews and slews of warnings)
05:41.08RalithI doubt there exists any major project that escapes that.
05:43.11brlcadescapes what?
05:43.18brlcadwarnings?
05:44.55brlcadeven on a large codebase, have to control the entropy and complexity.. does get harder, but all the more reason I think it's important we get things clean, then set it up (with strict flags) so they can stay clean
05:45.32brlcadpretty cool that about 10 main libs are fully clean now
05:46.39brlcadnext up are probably librt and libged.. then maybe work on finally kicking off a coverity scan
05:58.36brlcadkicks off another zombie attack, this time to the extreme
05:59.14brlcad1 vs 17000
05:59.49brlcadfirst few all failed miserably after less than a hundred .. but now this dude made it past the first wave and looks like he just might clean house
05:59.59brlcadlets it run over the week/weekend
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09:47.10CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r36692 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bio.h: defined S_ISDIR for not-C99 compilers
11:20.05d_rossbergi tried to test my last change on linux but i had no success:
11:21.13d_rossbergi got an error in src/libbu/brlcad_path.c:
11:22.04d_rossberg../../include/brlcad_version.h:153: Error: »brlcad_ident« defed but not referenced
11:23.10d_rossberg(it's a warning considered as an error)
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14:07.08brlcadd_rossberg: hm, interesting .. wonder why you get that result
14:09.01brlcadcan you paste the exact compile line and error message?
14:12.15brlcadsuspect it's a "defined but not used" warning?
14:18.19CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36693 10/brlcad/trunk/include/brlcad_version.h: attempt to quell a 'defined but not used' warning reported by daniel. provide a non-static function that calls brlcad_ident() so that it's used (and it calls brlcad_version() so we're good on the second static func).
14:19.05brlcadsee if that helps
14:29.48d_rossbergnow brlcad_path.c goes through
14:30.45d_rossbergi wonder if the linker will complain about the multiple defined function brlcad_identify() ...
14:31.33d_rossbergyes, it will!
14:33.43d_rossbergsee http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m23a44768
14:42.59brlcadyeah, I wondered about that too.. :)
14:43.22brlcadhm!
14:43.50d_rossbergi'm working on a solution: splitting brlcad_version.h into 2 files (?)
14:44.20brlcadneed c++ so could do a static var initializer
14:46.34CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36694 10/brlcad/trunk/include/brlcad_version.h: yeah, bad idea. multiple definitions in the lib since it's not in a compilation unit.
14:46.57d_rossbergi try one header with the constants and an other header with the static function
14:48.45brlcadinterestingly, there's already a quelling in there to prevent the "this is not used" warning
14:49.09brlcadgcc apparently got a little smarter and realized it was a trick
14:52.04d_rossbergthis is the "defined but not referenced" message is got: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m5b3ec115
14:52.53d_rossberggcc (Debian 4.3.4-6) 4.3.4
14:54.38CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36695 10/brlcad/trunk/include/brlcad_version.h:
14:54.38CIA-14BRL-CAD: attempt #3: quell the use warning by having brlcad_version() call
14:54.38CIA-14BRL-CAD: brlcad_ident(). this creates a recursive cycle that should call both functions
14:54.38CIA-14BRL-CAD: the second time through regardless of which is called.. at least that's the
14:54.39CIA-14BRL-CAD: theory.
14:54.52brlcadahh, heh, in german .. awesome
14:56.06brlcadbah, my logic isn't sound .. infinite loop
14:59.24brlcadfixing
15:00.47d_rossbergmy make is still working with the latest version ...
15:02.16brlcadyeah, it'll build
15:02.19brlcadit's a run-time inf loop
15:02.40brlcadflawed double recursion
15:05.29d_rossbergi have a new one: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m1df3620a
15:09.45CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36696 10/brlcad/trunk/include/brlcad_version.h:
15:09.45CIA-14BRL-CAD: yeah, previous logic was flawed. would have resulted in a run-time double
15:09.45CIA-14BRL-CAD: recursion inf loop. this form should work regardless of which function is
15:09.45CIA-14BRL-CAD: called first and has both functions calling the other quelling any non-use
15:09.45CIA-14BRL-CAD: warnings.
15:12.31CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36697 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpkg/pkg.c: quell size_t ->printf-> long warnings
15:23.15CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r36698 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpkg/pkg.c: one cast was missing (size_t->long warning)
15:44.00d_rossberglooks like there are no more errors during make
15:52.45brlcadcool
15:52.53brlcadcya daniel
15:56.26CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36699 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ptbl.c: cast %p format args to void*, quellage
16:00.57CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36700 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/semaphore.c: more warnings to quell...
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16:23.39``Erikshudders at the notion of gettext-izing BRL-CAD
16:26.05CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36701 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/ (plane.c sphmap.c tabdata.c wavelet.c): whee... MORE warnings... where do these keep coming from?? this same machine compiled verbose strict a couple days ago.
16:26.23brlcadyeah, no fun
16:30.35CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36702 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bn.h: cast our args to what we're logging them as
16:31.05CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36703 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: need to rename bu_ptbl() .. conflicts with c++ compilation
16:34.23CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36704 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/ (8 files): misc cleanup, ws, indent, quellage
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20:20.37starseeker``Erik: is gettext-izing BRL-CAD on the todo?
20:34.36starseekeroh lovely
20:34.53starseekerautoconf 2.64 doesn't like BRL-CAD
20:35.09starseekerpulls a clean checkout to be sure...
20:49.23starseekeryep
20:50.43starseekeroh, looks like it might be griping about tkhtml3?
20:50.58starseekeradded AUTHORS, ChangeLog, INSTALL, COPYING and NEWS...
20:51.02starseekerhumph
20:52.54CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36705 10/brlcad/trunk/m4/: Tweak svn:ignore in m4 dir
20:54.05CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36706 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/m4/: Tweak svn:ignore in src/other/step m4 dir
20:59.06starseekerthat's not all of it... six instances of complaining by grep about Makefile.am not found
21:01.45CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36707 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkhtml3/ (AUTHORS COPYING COPYRIGHT ChangeLog INSTALL NEWS): Move COPYRIGHT file to COPYING and add in stubs of other 'standard' files to quiet autoreconf blathering.
21:03.54starseekeror autogen, more properly...
21:28.05``Eriknot on the todo, but i10n/l18n ... done pennance on dem
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091127

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091127

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03:40.09``Erikhm
03:40.28``Erikwhy the flying fuck is indianla1ry here on turkey day?
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09:26.46CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r36708 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/nirt.c: variable db_name is used in command.c too => made it global again
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14:15.27``Erikogre 1.6.4 is out
14:17.15``Erik"tacocat is a palindrome" heh
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14:55.06CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36709 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpkg/pkg.c: type fixes for STRICT_FLAGS
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15:38.46*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || #brlcad logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || Release 7.16.2 posted (20091106) .. full binary release!
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20:25.40``Erikhttp://developers.slashdot.org/story/09/11/27/1851243/Building-3D-Models-On-the-Fly-With-a-Webcam?art_pos=2
20:54.19yukonbob``Erik: neat
23:17.50``Erikheh navy strong http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=8275
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091128

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091128

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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091129

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091129

01:38.07CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1994 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_put_edit_solid: stubify
01:40.23CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1995 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_QuestionMarkDevel:
01:41.22CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1996 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_aproposdevel:
01:42.19CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1997 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_helpdevel:
05:45.45*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=matthew@dhcp-143-147.mcme-students.carleton.ca)
05:46.08talcitestarseeker: you there?
05:46.19talciteI've applied the fix to the specfile and it didn't help
06:46.53talcitestarseeker: sorry, I'm referring to the xsltproc build failure. I added the libxslt build requirement. Also, the --disable-documentation option is specified in the configure script
10:39.36CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36710 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/backtrace.c: check the return types on write() to make sure it succeeded. remember to avoid using stack vars on the crash path.
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19:52.25CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36711 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_comb.c: ws indent style cleanup
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22:09.41CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36712 10/brlcad/trunk/include/vmath.h: (log message trimmed)
22:09.41CIA-41BRL-CAD: oof. this can have some widespread repercussions.. VEQUAL was using exactness
22:09.41CIA-41BRL-CAD: testing, relying on stable representation comparisons (leaving a false sense of
22:09.41CIA-41BRL-CAD: behavior by callers). SMALL_FASTF is what we define as the minimum
22:09.43CIA-41BRL-CAD: representation capacity delta of the hardware, so we use that now instead. this
22:09.45CIA-41BRL-CAD: will change behavior and require additional testing, but is what the vmath
22:09.47CIA-41BRL-CAD: routine needs to be. the callers (which at a glance are patch-g,
22:18.15CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36713 10/brlcad/trunk/include/vmath.h: ws style cleanup
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22:28.26talcitestarseeker: ping?
22:29.04starseekertalcite: got a few minutes
22:29.13starseekeryou've got the xsltproc binary?
22:29.53talcitestarseeker: yes
22:30.11starseekerthat's really strange
22:30.36talciteis it an autotool script bug?
22:30.39starseekercan you post your config.log file at pastebin.bzflag.bz?
22:30.42starseekercould be
22:31.11talciteI don't have the config.log, but I have the config output. Is that alright?
22:31.19starseekerit's a start
22:31.23talciteI was building on the fedora koji server. I only have access to the output from mock
22:31.29starseekerhmm
22:31.49starseekerdo you have a local machine with the same version of fedora?
22:31.57starseekerfirst step would be to get it working there
22:32.23talciteI do, but it's at home right now. The laptop takes an hour to compile
22:32.33starseekerwell, all you need is to configure
22:32.42starseekercheck the Makefile in doc/docbook
22:32.51talcitehmm ok. Give me a sec
22:33.01talciteyou want this to be built in a chroot jail or no?
22:33.39starseekerif it's XSLTPROC variable is empty, we've got a problem
22:34.07starseekeras close to the koji server as you can conveniently arragne
22:34.10starseekerarrange even
22:35.04talciteI can make it mostly identical. The koji server runs mock to build with chroot jails, just like I have here
22:35.05talciteone sec
22:37.19talcitestarseeker: I don't actually know if this builds outside of the chroot jail. I've never done 7.16 outside of one
22:40.39talcitestarseeker: this may take more than a few minutes actually. It needs to install the dev packages to the chroot. Will you be back tonight?
22:43.09CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36714 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: also rename nmg_struct_counts() due to struct of same name.
22:43.33talciteit's empty
22:43.38talcitebrb.
22:51.52starseekertalcite: dunno - maybe later
23:00.34CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36715 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/opennurbs_ext.h src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp):
23:00.34CIA-41BRL-CAD: provide a non-negative tolerance to get_closest_point(), namely the one that it
23:00.34CIA-41BRL-CAD: was using internally (BREP_FCP_ROOT_EPSILON) and ignoring the passed tolerance.
23:00.34CIA-41BRL-CAD: now it uses the tolerance passed. quell a slew of other warnings while we're at
23:00.35CIA-41BRL-CAD: it, what a mess.
23:17.43CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36716 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h: fix initialization ordering, must match declaration
23:17.57CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36717 10/brlcad/trunk/include/vector_x86.h: quell shadow warnings, has member funcs of same name.
23:19.42CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36718 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: quell more warnings, convert exact floating point comparison into a root epsilon comparison (sensitivity required is undocumented)
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23:28.48talcitestarseeker: the XSLTPROC variable is empty
23:34.02CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36719 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: mass ws style indent comment cleanup, take out the trash too
23:39.28CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36720 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: another dead code section, make the KTANGENTBREAK section non-conditional and remove the old linear case
23:40.43brlcadempty or ':' ?
23:41.22brlcadit shouldn't be empty unless documentation is disabled and it wasn't detect
23:43.18brlcadit should be ':' if it wasn't detected and documentation is enabled
23:43.22brlcad(talcite)
23:44.15talcitebrlcad: empty
23:44.21talciteand documentation is disabled
23:44.31talciteI'm still getting a build failure though
23:45.12talcitebrlcad: http://fpaste.org/xeEF/
23:45.27talciteThat was done on koji so I have limited access to the files unfortunately
23:47.18brlcadah, okay - that's the issue then
23:47.33brlcadit shouldn't be even getting to that dir with documentation disabled
23:48.39talciteyeah
23:48.47talciteactually, let me see if I can re-enable documentation
23:49.08talciteWe took it off last time because of a bug in one of the java apps. It's been updated now
23:51.06talciteman. I love the connection on the campus. uploading at 250 kB/s sustained =)
23:51.16talcitekoji builds are so fast here
23:51.26brlcadjava is only for a subset of the docs
23:51.32CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36721 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/Makefile.am: don't even traverse into the docbook directory if documentation is disabled, just include it in the dist
23:51.40brlcadxslt gives the html docs, java gives the pdf docs
23:52.06brlcadiirc: --disable-documentation will turn both off, --disable-pdf-documentation will turn just the latter off
23:53.01brlcadah, I lie -- no separate disable-pdf-documentation option any longer
23:53.18brlcadit's just auto-detected, though --disable-documentation will turn both off
23:54.25talcitehmm. Any chance that patch you just submitted will be back-ported to the release?
23:55.00talciteI'm using the 7.16.2 release now. Not SVN anymore
23:57.11brlcadno, we don't back-port any changes unless it's security critical
23:57.28brlcadand even then more likely to yank the release, depending on the issue
23:57.32brlcadtoo much changes too quickly
23:57.47brlcadplus we're on a monthly iteration cycle anyways, with a release in just a couple days expected
23:58.38brlcad7.16.4 is scheduled for the first week of December
23:59.26brlcadi still need to run some tests to see if that change is even good, to make sure things package up correctly with docs on/off
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091130

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091130

00:02.44talcitehmm I see.
00:03.01talciteWait. we're doing monthly releases now? Big change from the summer.
00:03.33talciteanyways, that'll make things easier. I'll pull the patch from SVN in the mean time if the Java docs build still fails
00:03.44brlcadtalcite: we've been doing monthly releases for a couple years...
00:04.08brlcadwe've MISSED a few release iterations ... but that's been the schedule for a long time
00:04.14talciteahh
00:04.47brlcadbut yeah, we missed three months in a row this summer... that was really bad
00:05.12brlcadjun, jul, aug
00:05.20brlcadbut got back on track after that
00:05.43talciteyeah. I remember that part. I was asking about the releases for awhile. Well the SVN builds worked as well
00:06.04brlcadsvn usually builds.. just not a stable environment
00:06.13talciteanyways, we'll have results on the build soon. It's almost uploaded to koji now.
00:06.25brlcadif you want a more stable environment, there is the STABLE branch, but then that changes about as rapidly as our releases :)
00:06.30brlcadcool
00:13.25brlcadtalcite: as a workaround, it looks like setting APACHEFOP before configure can maybe override the test
00:13.57talcitehmm. I don't know if you can do that from a specfile
00:13.59brlcadi.e, leave documentation enabled, but set APACHEFOP to emptry string or : to disable
00:14.27talcitewell, we'll deal with it when it comes I suppose
00:14.34brlcadI believe you can set env vars as a configure optino
00:18.04brlcadtesting.. yeah, ./configure APACHEFOP=: --prefix=...
00:18.12brlcadjust like any other --option
00:24.51CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36722 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs):
00:24.51CIA-41BRL-CAD: rename get_solidbitv() function to rt_get_solidbitv() to be api-consistent.
00:24.51CIA-41BRL-CAD: change the first parameter from a long to a size_t while we're at it and mark
00:24.51CIA-41BRL-CAD: the old name as obsolete (even though it wasn't proper api with the bad name)
00:27.01talcitebrlcad: ahh yes, that's right. Also, the build went well. The only error I got was related to a specfile configuration thing. It got past the compile stage
00:30.48brlcadgreat
00:35.02talcitebrlcad: do you know what the Tkhtml3.0/pkgIndex.tcl script is for? I can't see the file since it was a koji build, but it's shown up now that I'm building against 7.6.12 and F12
00:35.20talciteI need to know whether to put it in the devel package or the regular one
00:44.16brlcadall tcl packages (aka extensions) have a pkgIndex.tcl file that tells tcl how to load that extension
00:44.59brlcadit's a file that should get installed
00:45.15talciteI see. It's strange it didn't get caught by the glob.
00:48.47brlcadwhat do you mean?
00:49.01brlcadit will get generated during compile, and should get installed during the install rule
00:50.40brlcadit's a build product, like libTkhtml3.0.so
00:53.08talciteI have an error because it says it's installed but not packaged. I'm missing it in the %files section. The strange thing is I have a glob %{_libdir}/%{name}/*.so
00:53.34talciteboth the libTkhtml3.0.so and pkgIndex.tcl files are left over
00:57.02brlcad*.so is supposed to make pkgIndex.tcl ? :)
00:57.13brlcads/make/match/
01:00.25talciteheh no. *.so won't get pkgIndex.tcl. It should get libTkhtml3.0 though. Also. I don't know why pkgIndex.tcl didn't show up before.
01:10.32CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36723 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (14 files in 2 dirs): quell a slew of verbose strict compilation warnings, shadow warnings, unused params, floating point comparisons
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07:57.23CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36724 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (11 files in 5 dirs): ws style indent comment consistency update
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13:38.00CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36725 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ars/ars.c:
13:38.00CIA-41BRL-CAD: Removed trailing semi-colon on macros that expand out as a block of statements
13:38.00CIA-41BRL-CAD: but used as a single statement in an if-then-else expression like -> if (cond)
13:38.00CIA-41BRL-CAD: BLOCK1MACRO(a,b) else BLOCK2MACRO(a,b,c) Can explicitly add another block layer
13:38.00CIA-41BRL-CAD: if this is something the WS script is inducing??
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14:15.12d-lowas introduced to a new comedian this weekend:  www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9pAv-z2ens
14:15.36``Erikis frightened O.o
14:15.47d-loits work safe.
14:15.52d-loI promise
14:15.54d-loMUWAHAHAHA
14:15.57``Erikoh, that's never stopped me before
14:16.01``Erikbut is it sanity safe?
14:16.22d-loactually yeah.  Its a stretch for me, i know.
14:16.38``Erikgotten that dvd mailed to you yet?
14:17.03d-lodunno, havta check
14:17.58``Erikhad a buddy come visit over the weekend, realized I have wayyyyy to many wow toons when figuring out which ones I didn't work off the 'rested' for
14:18.14d-lo'rested' ?
14:19.04``Erikum, yeah, mechanism to help 'casual' players, if you're in "inn", you gain rested at a slow rate, when you kill something, you get double experience if you're rested (and the amount of extra xp subtracted from the rested value)
14:19.22d-loah, I see.
14:19.52``Erika week of rested is worth mebbe 2-4 hours of aggressive playing, so'z I use it as my "time to stop" indicator
14:20.27d-loheh good call.  Does Wow have a builtin clock?  aka set a 3 hour timer ?
14:21.12``Erikum, I think it does... I know it has 'parental controls' that allow setting a maximum number of hours per period and stuff, but I haven't tried any of those
14:21.25d-lonice :)
14:22.14``Erikit's easier on my sanity to view using up rested as a goal instead of setting something up to restrict me, y'know?
14:22.21``Erikpositive spin and all
14:22.34d-lomake sense
14:23.58d-lomakes sense even :)
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14:39.56CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36726 10/rt^3/trunk/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Rearrange cmake build so that all binaries are generated in one location.
15:00.37``Erikhah, good xkcd today
15:01.15CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36727 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ars/ars.c: ah yes, run into this before. wrapping the if/else in braces so the macro semicolon doesn't cause problems. preferable so all lines syntactically are consistent (and replaceable with functions if needed).
15:10.18brlcadhaha, so true... http://xkcd.com/664/
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15:19.50CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36728 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtermio/termio.c: Define COMPAT_43TTY on FreeBSD to avoid compile failure on FBSD8. This probably needs a lot more attention.
15:23.11``Erikd-lo: that y00t00b clip would make quite the interesting movie O.o
15:24.11d-loEven more Action:  Get down... again!
15:24.13d-lolol
16:31.11CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36729 10/rt^3/trunk/src/adminpanel/ (AdminControlPanel.cxx AdminControlPanel.h): Slight mod to use pointers instead of reference
16:32.02CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36730 10/rt^3/trunk/src/GS/ (gsmain.cxx gsph0.cxx): Slight Rename
16:34.04CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36731 10/rt^3/trunk/src/adminpanel/ (ACPCommand.cxx ACPCommand.h AdminControlPanel.h): Forgot to remove import to antiquated header.
16:45.08CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36732 10/rt^3/trunk/src/GS/CMakeLists.txt: WS cleanup.
17:01.39CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36733 10/rt^3/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Stub in beginnings of NetMsgFactory
18:05.30starseekerbrlcad: heh, yeah, posted that same one earlier
18:05.48starseekerxkcd is occasionally so insightful it's scary
18:06.02starseekerand often just plain scary ;-)
18:07.33starseekermakes a note to get cadtools compiling and check it out... might be able to have some SDL+adrt+toolkit fun...
18:07.54starseekerwhich of course completely misses the point of getting the new SuperGUI in Ogre/Qt working...
18:09.27``Erikpanda3d, w00t
18:10.34starseekerblinks
18:10.44``ErikPyADR!
18:10.48``ErikPyADRT even
18:10.54starseekerthat makes Ogre, OSG, Panda3d, crystalspace...
18:11.00``Erikahhhh, PISST, yes
18:11.03``Erikthe python ISST
18:11.05``ErikI like it
18:11.08starseekerhehe
18:11.30``Erikand a nice distribution whitepaper... "Getting PISST"
18:12.10``Eriknow should the user manual be called "totally pisst"?
18:12.52starseekersuggests a new signature for ``Erik's emails "Causing Trouble for the Politically Correct for 20 years and counting."
18:13.11``Erikwell, thirty something, but...
18:13.34starseeker``Erik: surely you won't miss the chance to have the Quit button be "PISST off"
18:13.49``Erikwas thinking about it
18:14.03starseekeras long as I get to watch you brief it
18:14.11``Erikthat seems a little too direct, and I couldn't think of a good sentence to embedded it into
18:14.14starseekerwith popcorn
18:14.54starseeker"Turning PISST off - proper shutdown procedures"
18:15.16``Eriksee, that doesn't flow so well
18:15.33starseekerthat's a title for a chapter
18:15.55starseekerputs link here for himself later: http://hypertriton.com/cadtools/
18:16.02``Erikjust imagine the section going through the procedure of getting PISST on
18:16.03``ErikO.o
18:16.31starseeker``Erik: since when did government documentation "flow"?  Ever try reading anything on THOMAS?
18:16.54``Erikyeah, but I like to do it with style and class.
18:17.02``ErikYou should see the stuff about my balls
18:17.44starseekeryou're going to see that vanish one day in a blaze of glorious commits...
18:17.49``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/~erik/niceballs.png
18:18.24``Erikstill need to fix things, subtraction is horrible.. bad things happen when you remove a chunk of my balls
18:18.27``ErikO.o
18:18.27starseekerhmm - this is moderately strange... http://members.shaw.ca/tnbaker/SDLTk/
18:18.49starseeker``Erik: obj-g is bot only at the moment, correct?
18:18.56``Erikyes
18:19.05``Erikif that much
18:20.44``Erikallt he OBJ files I've actually run across have been either triangles or quads, haven't seen a NURBS one in the wild
18:24.04starseeker``Erik: was that g-egg converter a side project or did someone want it?
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20:03.00``ErikI wanted it
20:03.22``ErikI was dorking with panda and figured it'd be interesting to import a BRL-CAD geometry into the engine
20:03.49starseekerso it's fair to cite that as an open source contribution?
20:04.02``Erikyeah, was all done from home
20:04.08starseekercool
20:04.17``Erikon like a sunday
20:04.23``Erikmost of the obj-g was done on a saturday I think
20:04.46starseekerthought Certain People here wanted obj-g?
20:05.38``Erikit was on a low priority tracker for, uh, years
20:05.52``Erikbut it didn't get any attention until I was dorking with it for fun
20:06.18``Erikactually, it was only on the tracker because I went and made a charge of importers and exporters and looked for where we couldn't do round-trip
20:06.36``Erikyeah, first obj-g.c commit was a sunday
20:06.48``Eriker, sorry, saturday
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21:18.52Talcite_cellbrlcad, did we get a new release of tkhtml in 7.16.2?
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21:39.41brlcad<PROTECTED>
21:40.21brlcadexternal dependency upgrades are usually documented in our TODO file as well, and nothing there
21:43.38talciteI see.
21:43.48talciteIt's strange that these 2 new files appeared out of nowhere then.
22:03.25CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36734 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (71 files in 20 dirs): WHOOOSH! massive ws style indent comment consistency update. also includes dead code elimination and much static->HIDDEN on funcs. should be no logic changes.
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23:10.06``Erikso svn log it? heh
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091201

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091201

00:31.52``Erik<-- ended up driving behind a saleen mustang on the way home, not too many of those around
00:33.38``Eriknot sure if it was the 365hp one or the 600hp one, either way, impressive straightline shtuff
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01:35.57CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1998 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_idents:
01:36.59CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r1999 10/wiki/Category:MGED_geometry_information_commands: New page: [[category:MGED]]
01:38.41CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2000 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_summary:
01:39.05CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2001 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_paths:
01:39.58CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2002 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_push:
01:40.36CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2003 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_tops:
01:40.51CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2004 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_t:
01:41.03CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2005 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_units:
01:41.10CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2006 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_showmats:
01:41.19CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2007 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_tree:
01:41.34CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2008 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_title:
01:42.20CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2009 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_dbfindtree:
01:42.57CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2010 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_eac:
01:43.59CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2011 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_l:
01:44.03CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2012 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_ls:
01:44.16CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2013 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_cat:
01:44.22CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2014 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_dbfind:
01:51.05CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2015 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_ls:
01:51.35CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2016 10/wiki/Category:MGED_geometry_information_commands:
01:55.56CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2017 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_mirror: /* Description */ fmt
01:57.14CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2018 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_xpush:
02:01.52CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2019 10/wiki/Category:MGED_object_creation:
02:02.39CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2020 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_g:
02:02.54CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2021 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_build_region:
02:04.25CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2022 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_make:
02:04.37CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2023 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_c:
02:04.43CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2024 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_cp:
02:04.52CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2025 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_mv:
02:05.10CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2026 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_mvall:
02:05.22CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2027 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_cpi:
02:05.25CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2028 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_make_bb:
02:05.33CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2029 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_mirror:
02:08.46CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2030 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_r:
02:09.49CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2031 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_g:
02:11.08CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2032 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_prefix:
02:16.24CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2033 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_unhide: Redirecting to [[MGED CMD hide]]
02:19.45CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2034 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_rt:
02:20.06CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2035 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_view2grid_lu:
02:20.21CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2036 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_view2model:
02:22.34CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2037 10/wiki/Category:MGED_view_manipulation:
02:33.32CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2038 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_ps:
02:33.47CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2039 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_plot:
02:33.54CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2040 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_overlay:
02:34.17CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2041 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_knob:
02:34.26CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2042 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_sv:
02:34.39CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2043 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_rot:
02:35.00CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2045 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_sca:
02:35.01CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2044 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_mrot:
02:35.03CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2046 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_tra:
02:35.10CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2047 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_size:
02:35.21CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2048 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_refresh:
02:37.50CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2049 10/wiki/Category:MGED_view_manipulation:
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06:55.05CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36735 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (13 files in 6 dirs): more whooosh.. massive ws style indent comment consistency update. also includes dead code elimination and much static->HIDDEN on funcs. should be no logic changes.
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08:01.09CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r36736 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/ (brep.cpp brep_debug.cpp):
08:01.09CIA-41BRL-CAD: keep in mind: HIDDEN != static
08:01.09CIA-41BRL-CAD: HIDDEN may lead to linker errors because of duplicate symbols during the debug build (as happened here)
08:08.10CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r36737 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ell/ell.c: removed a remainder of dead code elimination
08:25.05CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r36738 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/cline/cline.c:
08:25.05CIA-41BRL-CAD: removed trailing semicolon on macros that closed an if-statements before the corresponding else-clause
08:25.05CIA-41BRL-CAD: keep in mind: macros are not functions, and adding a semicolon to them so they look like functions does not make it better
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13:42.29d-lomerning all!
13:59.15``Erikdang punk
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15:38.35d-lowhos da punk?
15:39.09CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36739 10/rt^3/trunk/ (30 files in 30 dirs): svn:ignore cleanup/standardize
15:41.10CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36740 10/rt^3/trunk/src/ (24 files in 24 dirs): svn:ignore cleanup/standardize
15:47.03CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36741 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ (68 files in 68 dirs): More svn:ignore cleanup/standardize
15:52.09CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36742 10/rt^3/trunk/ (. src/): Yet more svn:ignore cleanup/standardize
16:01.48starseekerbrlcad: in today?
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17:19.41CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36743 10/rt^3/trunk/include/iBME/iBMECommon.h: Update MsgType enumeration
18:31.01``Erikcrawls under his desk and falls asleep
18:59.04d-loright there with ya ``Erik ....
19:13.48``Erikw00t, my computer shipped! it'll get to my place tomorrow
19:14.07``Erikhttp://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/t-openrdcdetails.aspx
19:16.35d-loInteresting... what you have planned for that?  Home automation? Carputer?
19:18.46``Erikreplacing my home server (currently a 650mhz pIII with 256m ram (was 128m until 3 days ago))
19:19.01d-lo``Erik: How much did that lil thingy run?
19:19.06``Erik250
19:19.10d-lohaha, nice.
19:19.23``Erikand the $140 1.5tb usb drive for it
19:19.41``Erikdual gig-E, bunches of usb ports, an esata if I wanna, ...
19:19.44``ErikARM cpu :D
19:20.24d-lofanless cpu though... i take it you don't plan on number crunching with it?
19:20.38``Erikno, heh
19:20.49``Erikthe 650mhz is sufficient, so the 1.2ghz should be tons
19:21.08``Erikmostly just irssi, finch, a low usage mysql (thinknig about migrating to sqlite3)
19:21.14``Eriktinyproxy, natd...
19:21.17d-lowith a name like marvell, you could have a pretty cool, copyright infringing case in no time!
19:22.59``Erikyehhh, doubt it'd get far, it'd be way more retarded than mcdonalds suing that family restaurant named after the family name in ireland...
19:23.50d-lohah, that website is baddass :)
19:23.51d-lohttp://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/p-25-sheevaplug-dev-kit-uk.aspx
19:23.54d-lothat is sooo cool.
19:25.10d-lolol get a 6 strip and call it a cluster. lol
19:25.21``Erikhaha
19:25.51``Erika decent quadcore machine would smoke 6 of those, I'd imagine
19:26.22starseekerhmm - anybody else getting undefined symbols building libdm?
19:26.23``Erikfanless was a big win for my application with that openrd, I'm tired of hearing fans in my house
19:26.39d-lowell yeah.  But a decent quad core machine just isn't as cool as six mini computers hanging off a power strip :)
19:26.53``Erikhttp://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=0+0+current/freebsd-announce
19:32.56d-loheh, that openRD runs off a straight +12Vdc.  thats sexy
19:37.51d-lostill... i wonder how well it would benchmark brlcad...
19:38.01``Erikwell, if it cranks u p bsd ok, we'll see :D
19:38.20``ErikI'm still wondering if I can use a single power brick to do both the machine and the hard drive
19:38.51d-loI didnt see the Wattage/amperage ratings on the website, perhaps in the docs you get.
19:38.58d-lobut its possible I suppose.
19:39.36``Erikit was really low for the machine, like 4-20 or something
19:39.49``Erikif my drive takes 12vdc
19:40.07``Erikimagine how long the ups will hold it up O.O
19:40.45d-loha, screw a ups, thats just a waste of power AC->DC->AC->DC
19:41.09d-loAC->DC->CarBattery->computer
19:41.12d-lo=D
19:42.10``Erikhehehe
19:42.30``Erikyeh, but that'd be a matter of figuring out how much variance the machine can take
19:42.39``Erikcar batteries provide anything from 10 to 14 volts, right?
19:43.38``Erikand there'd still need to be switching to avoid slow bleed type issues or something
19:43.42``Erik*ponder*
19:44.01d-loright, thats why you get 2 12volt batteries, put em in series and throw a 12V voltage reg on it.  Hook up a run of the mil battery charger inbetween the battery and VR and you are good to go
19:53.16*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=matthew@dhcp-143-147.mcme-students.carleton.ca)
19:54.39starseekermakes a note to keep an eye out for mushroom clouds over d-lo's house...
19:55.43d-loheh, no way I'd jury rig something like that at MY house... I'm not crazy after all.
19:55.49d-lo;)
19:55.58``Erik'sall good, if dlo blows himself up, it's just a chunk of rural pennsylvania
19:56.10starseekerheh
19:56.14``Erikonly the amish give a fuck about pa
19:56.19``Erik:> *duck*
19:56.43d-lowhich is why they will never think to look there for my secret base... MUWAHAHAHAHA
19:57.12``Erikyes, but you seriously might want to reconsider your world dominationn plot using the first ever "land submarine"
19:57.16d-loFWIW, i have Rambo cop again.  he's up to 2450 zombie kills.
19:57.19``ErikI can think of some serious technical flaws with the plan
19:57.33d-lolol
19:57.53d-loWell after Project Land Shark was a complete failure.... what was I to do?
19:58.19``Erikand all that money on the frikkin' laser beams
19:59.56d-loyeah, 15000 pairs of Speedo's aren't cheap either.
20:00.38``Eriklooks for his mental eye bleach
20:00.59d-lo*snicker*
20:01.52d-lowe seriously need to do our own version of the Zombie Outbreak Simulator... machine guns would be so hilarious.
20:02.24``Erikflamethrower
20:02.29d-lolol
20:03.05``Erikwatching a zombie try to run around while on fire? excellent.
20:03.05d-loHave a % chance of spreading fire setting.
20:03.05d-looh lawd, that would be great
20:34.10CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36744 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-rtgl.c: Make rtgl definitions match those of ogl, for now...
20:35.05CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36745 10/rt^3/trunk/ (9 files in 6 dirs): Implementation of NetMsgFactory and corresponding tests. Some work on Portal/PortalManager. A few bug fixes.
21:14.12starseekerhmm... http://oglft.sourceforge.net/
22:14.15brlcadheh, nice duplication of FTGL
22:34.01*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14DA21.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:47.41*** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (n=Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1)
23:17.34*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14D925.dip.t-dialin.net)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091202

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091202

01:36.42brlcadstarseeker: was not (obviously), day off
01:39.04brlcadsheeva plug is awesome.. a wired webcame and you have an endpoint video monitoring setup
01:44.48``ErikLast night I lay in bed looking up at the stars in the sky and I thought to myself, where the heck is the ceiling.
02:26.11starseekerbrlcad: yeah, the lunch bregade has definitely come and gone ;-)
03:21.16CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r36746 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/ (7 files in 4 dirs): Added support for ARS primitive
03:40.19*** join/#brlcad Talcite_cell (n=Talcite@69-165-144-37.dsl.teksavvy.com)
04:07.08R0b0t1Does anyone know of an online RPN calculator?
04:35.51*** join/#brlcad cosurgi (n=cosurgi@atak.bl.pg.gda.pl)
04:40.50*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=Don@c-71-238-51-148.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
06:05.56CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36747 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (25 files in 11 dirs): last chunk of primitives whooosh.. massive ws style indent comment consistency update. also includes some dead code elimination. should be no logic changes.
06:21.53CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36748 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/cline/cline.c: once again, wrapping the if/else in braces so the macro semicolon doesn't cause problems. preferable so all lines syntactically are consistent (and replaceable with functions if needed).
06:32.06CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36749 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/ (brep.cpp brep_debug.h): it's actually a feature that HIDDEN uncovers linker errors becaue of duplicate symbols during debug builds. there shouldn't be ambiguous named local functions that shadow global funcs.
06:33.29CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36750 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep_debug.cpp: oops, a few more refs, duplicated func.
06:42.08CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36751 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: and therein is the problem it uncovers, that there is identical code copied into brep_debug that shouldn't be duplicated. rename for now.
12:10.16*** join/#brlcad parigaudi (n=quassel@pd95b7f5e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
13:46.40d-loMorning all!
13:51.53``Erikyargh
14:00.47*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@cpc2-bexl3-0-0-cust843.bmly.cable.ntl.com)
14:02.48d-loavast ye maties?
14:06.53brlcadhowdy
14:11.52d-lohey there brlcad!  Whats new?
14:40.44``Erikis curious as to why the new machine didn't come up O.o
14:42.55CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36755 10/rt^3/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Finish Implementation on NetMsgFactory. Modified test to be more comprehensive.
14:43.14CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36754 10/rt^3/trunk/src/iBME/: svn:ignore addition
14:43.43d-lowhat new machine?  The lil box you were talking about yesterday?
14:44.30CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36752 10/rt^3/trunk/src/GS/netMsg/NetMsg.cxx: Fix a serialization bug. ByteArray being passed in wasn't being fully isolated from the local ByteArrays, thus MsgLen parameters were being calculated incorrectly.
14:45.03CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36753 10/rt^3/trunk/src/iBME/ (. netMsgFactoryTest): update svn:ignore and delete binary that accidentally got added.
15:14.11d-lo``Erik:  what new machine?  The lil box you were talking about yesterday?
15:14.37``Erikno, that'll hopefully be on my step when I get home, I mean brlcad's new server to replace bz
15:14.56brlcadso it's just dead dead?
15:15.02``Erikdid an upgrade path on it that worked fine on the 4 machiens before it, exact same procedure and gotchas... that was the only one that didn't come back online
15:15.04brlcadyou have access to the admin control panel?
15:15.08``Erikno
15:15.14brlcadhrm
15:15.21``Erik"admin control panel"?
15:15.45brlcadtheir lame web interface for rebooting the thing
15:16.02``Erikwell, I did a fastboot and it went down right, I'm curious as to what the console says
15:16.22``ErikI imagine that if it didn't come up once, forcing a reboot through some external interface isn't going to magically fix it...
15:16.31brlcadmight be confusing it with the web interface for the german server
15:16.39brlcadyeah
15:17.31``Erikbtw, rays going away lunch is today at greene turtle, fyi
15:17.34brlcadlooks like 4pm?
15:17.50``Erikprobably around then, sounds about right
15:18.26``Erikdid installkernel, installworld, as much of the mergemaster that works until the bad system call (which I saw on all machines), fastboot to bring it up and finish the mergemaster, but it didn't come back up
15:18.49``Erikeither it's hung trying to shut down, hung trying to boot, or didn't bring up the networking right (doesn't ping)
15:19.30``Erikno console server for it, right? have to put in a ticket to get them to walk up and look at it?
15:32.13brlcadticket in
15:32.23brlcadsend them the info you just posted too
15:40.58CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36756 10/rt^3/trunk/src/tests/netMsgFactoryTest.cxx: Header typo fixed.
15:53.56*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14BC26.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:01.46*** join/#brlcad roberthl (n=robert@rhl.me.uk)
16:20.35brlcaddistcheck failure in tkhtml3, COPYRIGHT
16:21.00starseekerah, right
16:21.03starseekerfixes
16:21.50*** join/#brlcad roberthl (n=robert@rhl.me.uk)
16:23.23CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36758 10/rt^3/trunk/src/iBME/: Modified svn:ignore
16:23.23CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36757 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkhtml3/Makefile.in: Oops, COPYRIGHT is now COPYING
16:23.54CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36759 10/rt^3/trunk/src/tests/netSockPortalManagerTest.cxx: Stub in a basic NetSockPortalManager test.
16:25.27CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36760 10/rt^3/trunk/include/iBME/iBMECommon.h: Add failure codes related to Portal/PortalManager
16:26.51CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36762 10/rt^3/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Finished initial implementation of NetSockPortal/NetSockPortalManager
16:27.16CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36761 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (39 files in 11 dirs): and that makes for the remainder whooshage of librt! ws, style, indent, cleanup. eliminate lots of dead #if0 code too.
16:37.41CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36763 10/rt^3/trunk/src/iBME/ (. CMakeLists.txt): Modified svn:ignore. Added builder for geoserv (GeometryService)
17:53.23CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36764 10/rt^3/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Add signals for new Connection (either incoming or outgoing)
18:10.18CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36765 10/rt^3/trunk/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs): WS, indentation, style.
18:11.55CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36766 10/rt^3/trunk/ (include/GS/GeometryService.h src/GS/GeometryService.cxx): Partial implementation on GeometryService base class.
19:35.25*** join/#brlcad Talcite_cell (n=Talcite@134.117.254.248)
20:00.24CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36767 10/rt^3/trunk/ (include/GE/Logger.h src/GE/CMakeLists.txt src/GE/Logger.cxx): Implement basic Logger class.
20:16.08*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
20:16.21CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36768 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: ws
20:17.23CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36769 10/rt^3/trunk/ (include/GE/Logger.h src/GE/Logger.cxx): Flesh out Logger a bit more.
20:17.33CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36770 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/ (tk/generic/tk.h tk/generic/tkDecls.h tnt/jama_lu.h): hate modding in here, but quell some verbose warnings. shadow vars and floating point (added a NEAR_ZERO to jama)
20:18.00CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36771 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h: ws indent
20:34.52CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36772 10/rt^3/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Added inbox.size() getter.
20:37.51*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.48.97)
20:45.28CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36773 10/rt^3/trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Integrate Logger into various places.
20:58.38CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36774 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/Makefile.am: update tkhtml3's distcheck failure, s/COPYRIGHT/COPYING/ and must account for all files in the dist.
20:59.41starseekeroh, whooops - sorry
20:59.56starseekerforgot distcheck lives at that level in src/other
21:08.22CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36775 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (arb8/arb8.c arbn/arbn.c arbn/arbn_mirror.c): quell verbose strict compilation warnings. unused vars and missing initializers.
21:19.52CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36776 10/brlcad/trunk/Makefile.am: if we cd to top_srcdir, then top_srcdir/sh/cmakelists.txt isn't going to be right. fix distcheck for out-of-dir building.
21:26.32*** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (n=Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1)
21:29.34*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@d142-058-080-216.wireless.sfu.ca)
21:32.27*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14BC26.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:40.54brlcadout of dir distcheck fails in doc/docbook
21:40.54brlcadmake[3]: *** [lessons/en/mged09_globe_in_display_box.html] Error 9
21:51.18brlcadmaybe only -jparallel distchecking, rechecking single proc
21:55.04*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@216.114.141.108) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
22:07.28*** join/#brlcad cpc26 (n=cpc26@72.170.156.241)
22:07.50*** join/#brlcad cpc26 (n=cpc26@72.170.156.241)
22:16.28CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36777 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/bombardier.c: ctype.h for isspace()
22:27.02brlcadstarseeker: yeah, worked with -j1 too
22:35.23*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@d142-058-085-075.wireless.sfu.ca)
23:30.13``Erik<-- pokes at his new computer O.o
23:51.10*** join/#brlcad jack2 (i=jack@e180098251.adsl.alicedsl.de)
23:51.23jack2evening
23:51.48jack2i'm just having a go at packaging brlcad for fink/macosx once again
23:52.18brlcadjack2: fantastic
23:52.37brlcadshould be a lot easier than the last time it was worked on
23:52.41jack2i wonder if it's possible to --enable-almost-everything and --disable specific things?
23:52.47brlcadyes, it is
23:52.49jack2yeah, i noticed already :)
23:52.57brlcad--disable-all is a shorthand for that
23:53.08jack2brlcad: wonderful (was afraid it's a simple OR)
23:53.09brlcadINSTALL lists the aliases
23:53.41brlcadnope, it's specifically so you can turn everything off then individual ones on, or everything on and individual off
23:53.49jack2i did almost-everything minus jove now
23:53.57jack2perfect if it builds :)
23:54.04brlcadjove will default off now if it's a recent tarball
23:54.23brlcad(and should be left off)
23:54.23jack27.16.2
23:54.29brlcadjove is going away
23:54.31jack2latest i could see tarballed on sf
23:54.35jack2ok cool :)
23:54.39brlcadyep, that's the latest
23:55.37jack2could you polish the opengl detection to cope with our -framework OpenGL maybe?
23:55.58jack2requires x11-dev to be installed otherwise, for standard libs
23:57.38brlcadwe could, but it actually does still need x11-dev too unfortunately
23:57.48jack2yeah, i noticed
23:57.48brlcadthere are some x calls that get made in the gui editor that it links against still (even on os x)
23:57.55jack2mmh
23:58.21brlcadgetting a tk-aqua build going that just sticks to carbonland is on the todo, but nobody actively on it at the moment
23:58.37jack2carbon is about to die anyway
23:58.49jack2deprecated in 10.5, gone in 10.6 iirc
23:59.32brlcadthe facilities provided by carbon are still around, the low-level hooks to the graphics subsystem
23:59.42jack2yeah, sure
23:59.49brlcadnot the portability aspect
23:59.51jack2that stuff moved to CoreServices
23:59.54brlcadright
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091203

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091203

00:00.06brlcadstill calls it carbon :)
00:00.23jack2hehe, np
00:00.44jack2wonder if i should do an x11 variant too maybe
00:00.53brlcadvariant?
00:01.03jack2yeah, 2 packages
00:01.10jack2brlcad and brlcad-x11
00:01.11brlcadwhat's the non-x11 variant?
00:01.31jack2trying to use as little of x11 as possible ;)
00:02.06brlcadbrlcad without x11 is interesting and should certainly be possible (I had a clean non-x11 build verified a couple months back) but you get little/no GUI then
00:02.20jack2mmh
00:02.25jack2mged, right?
00:02.33brlcadright, you'd get a console-only mged
00:02.48brlcadyou'd still get mged, just command-line only
00:02.49jack2ok, that's pointless indeed
00:02.58jack2almost pointless at least
00:03.17*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=matthew@dhcp-143-147.mcme-students.carleton.ca)
00:03.26brlcadif you're already familiar with brl-cad, it's not pointless, but that's less than 1% of our usual users :)
00:03.34jack2exactly
00:03.35brlcadmost are new
00:03.56brlcadotherwise, there's a helluvalot you can do with the other 400 tools
00:04.11jack2sure :)
00:04.31jack2wonder if i should hide all the stuff in a private bindir...
00:04.47jack2people might hate me for spamming %p/bin ;)
00:05.34brlcadprobably a good idea ;)
00:05.34brlcadbetter yet, install the entire root to a private dir
00:05.51jack2what's wrong with macosx' zlib? (why does it build an own one?)
00:06.30brlcadnothing should be wrong with it
00:07.17``Erikfor fbsd, I use system provided zlib. libpng, tk and tcl
00:07.17brlcadif you added --disable-all, it should force everything off
00:07.30``Erikum, and jama and uhhh
00:07.32``Erikother stuff :D
00:07.32jack2libpng works
00:07.43jack2but it builds an own zlib and tcl+tk
00:08.16``Erikhm, /usr/lib/libz.dylib might be a little fruity, might need finks zlib
00:08.28brlcadtcl/tk make sense, os x doesn't ship an incrTcl so it has to use ours and ours requires 8.5 which is newer than the os x default
00:08.31jack2we don't provide zlib anymore
00:08.41jack2system one is good enough :)
00:08.51jack2(normally, that is)
00:09.08``Erikinvestigate the config.log and stuff to see why zlib fails to autodetect?
00:09.24``Erikour check might be too aggressive
00:09.28jack2brlcad: yup, i don't mind getting a fresh tcltk8.5 with itcl/itk of course
00:09.35jack2only zlib is odd
00:09.36brlcadbut that's still assuming you're letting it auto-detect -- you shouldn't be getting autodetection behavior if you used --disable-almost-everything
00:09.48jack2ok...will check
00:10.05brlcador --disable-all or whatever aliases
00:10.15jack2brlcad: nope, i did --enable-a-e and --disable-jove-build
00:10.18brlcadshould say 'no' down the summary list
00:10.22brlcada-e ?
00:10.27brlcadall
00:10.29jack2almost everything
00:10.40``Erikhm, "Linux OpenRD 2.6.22.18-dirty #1 Sat Aug 29 15:18:06 IST 2009 armv5tejl armv5tejl armv5tejl GNU/Linux"
00:10.42brlcadenable-almost-everything forces everything to build
00:10.49brlcadall external dependencies
00:11.08brlcadyou want the opposite for fink, disable everything
00:11.17jack2d'oh, but why does it like my external libpng then... :)
00:11.23brlcad"disable our compilation of [whatever]"
00:11.46brlcadyeah, that's not right..
00:11.55jack2just odd
00:12.16brlcadsounds like a build system bug, but would need to see your config.log
00:12.18brlcadcan you post it?
00:12.23jack2i don't really mind, zlib is really small
00:12.26jack2but funny
00:12.40jack2brlcad: ok, hold on a sec
00:13.01brlcadwell zlib makes more sense given you used --enable-all
00:13.05brlcadit's enabled
00:13.11brlcadthey mystery is libpng
00:13.26brlcador anything else that was a 'no' in the summary
00:14.12``Erikthe blue power ld is bright as hell, I might need to stick a piece of masking tape over it or solder a resister in there
00:14.47jack2brlcad: http://85.180.98.251/config.log
00:15.52jack2the CPPFLAGS are nonsense of course, ignore that -framework OpenGL
00:16.57brlcad404
00:17.41jack2indeed...wtf
00:17.45jack2one sec
00:18.26``Erikheh, / on that site is 404, too
00:19.38jack2ok, now it works
00:19.41jack2sorry
00:21.53brlcaddon't understand something, your config.log says libpng will be built
00:22.05brlcadeverything will be built, except jove
00:22.09brlcadwhich is right
00:23.23jack2hrm
00:25.02brlcad--enable-aquatk-build shouldn't do anything useful, and you shouldn't --enable-rtgl just yet unless you plan on coding :)
00:25.25brlcadit works great, but not something to spring on the fink masses just yet, few issues to work out
00:27.03jack2hehe ok
00:29.52jack2woop, failure
00:30.04brlcadorly?
00:30.07jack2linking .libs/libstepeditor.19.dylib is missing some symbols
00:30.18brlcado.O
00:30.31jack2ld: Undefined symbols:
00:30.31jack2__ZN18SDAI_DAObject_SDAIC2Ev
00:30.31jack2__ZN18SDAI_DAObject_SDAID2Ev
00:30.31jack2__ZTI18SDAI_DAObject_SDAI
00:31.47brlcadwhere was it in the build?
00:32.07brlcadin src/other/step or in src/conv/step ?
00:32.37jack2other/step
00:32.54brlcadthose SDAI_DAObject_SDAI symbols are in a diff lib
00:33.31brlcadso the question is, what was it linking that it'd care and was that other lib on the link line
00:34.48jack2other lib? hold on, i'll lisppaste the whole link line
00:35.35brlcadah.. hm, found a problem I think
00:35.58brlcadlooks like some vars were renamed, bizarre that it wasn't caught on other mac systems
00:36.23jack2http://paste.lisp.org/+1YL5
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00:38.48CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36778 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/cleditor/Makefile.am: curiously, still using the CL* vars instead of what configure.ac is providing. link failure generating resolved dylib.
00:38.55brlcadahhhh.... hrm
00:39.02brlcadstep has it's own configure.ac
00:39.04``Erikheh, a lisp weenie
00:39.05brlcadoops
00:39.16jack2brlcad: maybe that stupid libtool default sneaked in on other macs?
00:39.39jack2(-Wl,-undefined,dynamic_lookup or suppress)
00:40.46CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36779 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/cleditor/Makefile.am: oops, SCL has its own configure.ac, use the CL-prefixed vars (most importantly adding/keeping libdai)
00:41.51brlcadthese other systems are stock, we re-repair the libtool script if it detects badness but the error in this case is warranted for fully resolved libs.. but I bet there will be other issues
00:42.35brlcadwas the -all_load dumbness in the libtool script
00:43.02jack2yeah, i'm glad you remove that crap yourself meanwhile :)
00:44.09brlcadhm, but you know I bet that's the issue.. SCL has it's own configure, it's own libtool script
00:45.16jack2something not propagating right?
00:45.42brlcadmaybe
00:45.48jack2modularity isn't bad...as long as the parts know how to talk to each other ;)
00:47.33brlcadif you diff libtool src/other/step/libtool, what do you see?
00:47.45brlcadjust a generated and temp_rpath line or more?
00:48.41brlcadregardless, the fix "should" be to edit src/other/step/Makefile.am and add ${CLDAI} \ to the LIBADD section
00:49.13brlcader, src/other/step/cleditor/Makefile.am
00:49.57brlcadcd src/other/step/cleditor && make LIBS='${CLDAI}' might work.. :)
00:50.03brlcadas an alternative
00:52.52CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36780 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ars/ars.c: more quellage via data validation
00:58.02``Eriklooks for a serial cable O.o
01:07.42CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36781 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ars/ars.c: quell the rest of the ARS warnings. log shadow and unused parameter validation.
01:09.24CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36782 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: quell unreachable code warnings for callers of RT_HIT_NORMAL() when either the normal is NULL or the flip flag is a constant. we squash the warnage by setting to a locally scoped temp var.
01:12.48jack-brlcad: ok, thx
01:13.51brlcadhits the road for a bit
07:45.54*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ)
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08:48.35d_rossbergi had the following problem:
08:48.50d_rossberg- created a (empty) group
08:49.15d_rossberg- selected this group (rt_gettree)
08:49.47d_rossberg- created a region with a solid and put it into the group
08:50.49d_rossberg- now rt_shootray won't find anything
08:52.08d_rossbergist this behavior intended? (i.e. rt_gettree has to be called after all has been created)
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11:17.28d-loMornin all!
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12:34.30d-loMornin ``Erik
12:34.39d-loget your lil puter last night?
13:30.00CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36783 10/rt^3/trunk/geoserve.config: Add basic configuration file.
13:30.14CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36784 10/rt^3/trunk/ (include/GS/GeometryService.h src/GS/GeometryService.cxx): Override ::exec() from QCoreApplication to allow object level init prior to entering main event loop.
13:33.49``Erikyup
13:33.59``Erikpasted uname, even
13:34.18d-lo'pasted uname' ?
13:34.50``Erikyeah, scroll up... I lost it due to a poweroutage overnight :/
13:37.09d-loSuckage.  When I got up at 0400, the wind was howling and power was flickering... but it stayed on.  How long was yours out for?
13:38.49``Eriklong enough to sap the UPS, but I had 3 machiens on it
13:39.20``Erikfortunately, I wake up at the same time every day, alarm or not :)
13:40.33d-loDitto about the alarm.  Sucks on weekends though.  I don't think I have slept in since High School.
13:40.54d-loNow when the power went out, did the OpenRD machine get messed up?
13:43.08``Eriknah, it was messed up before :D
13:43.21d-lolol
13:43.49d-loMessed up upon arrival, or did it get messed up by operator? ;)
13:43.49``Erikrendered it unbootable before I went to sleep, uses a fruity uboot thing that isn't geared to do anything but boot linux off of the flash NAND memory
13:44.18``Erikso I was trying to coerce it with a different boot command to attempt to bring up the USB subsystem and try passing control off to a drive
13:44.29``Erikhave to do it all via serial console to boot, fun stuff
13:44.45d-loAh, hence the serial cable search.
13:44.48d-lodidja find one?
13:44.55``Erikmight take a week or two before I coerce it into booting bsd
13:45.03``Erikum, usb to the jtag faking it
13:45.45d-loI have a box full o junk and I am sure I have a handful of subd-9's in there if you need one.
13:46.43``Erikthe usb solution works pretty well, just have to remember to force to program to go to 115200 baud, 8 bit, 1 stop bit and no flow control
13:46.46``Erikdang settings
13:47.19``Erikat the moment, it spools around, starts the usb subsystem, scans, looks for usb storage devices, complains about bad magic and reboots
13:47.51d-lodid it come with some 'software' to 'flash' it back to normal via serial?
13:48.00``Erik<-- half wondering if he could stomach using linux in that role
13:48.19``Erikum, there's a recovery image on the dvd, not sure what exactly it does
13:49.06d-loI was just thinking that establishing the ability to restore it to 100% bootable again would be a good backup plan to have.
13:49.10``Erikor how to use it o.O it's slightly bigger than I estimated, too, but still quite small
13:49.22``Erikwhere's the adventure in that???
13:49.32d-loisnt it like 6x8x1 inches?
13:49.50``Erikporbably about, I was thinking it was more like 4x6x1 for some reason
13:50.04``Erikfrom looking at the end panel and trying to guess... shoulda looked at the numbers :)
13:50.12d-loHeh, well if adventure gives me a soildstate paperwieght, I'll take safe and sound anyday :)  But then again, I pinch pennies.
13:51.35``ErikI haven't tried writing a new uboot image yet, trying to do this with adjusting settings, and I'm writing down the old settings as I go *shrug*
13:52.51d-lohow much Ram does it have 512?
13:53.18``Erikyup, 512 ram, 4g NAND flash, 1.2ghz sheeva (roughly like an 800mhz p3), no fpu
13:53.41d-lowhoa, 4GB of NAND flash?  neato.
13:54.23``Erikand the dvd has all sorts of neat shit... schematics, PCB layout diagrams, ...
13:54.32``Erikthis ain't no dell :D
13:54.54d-loI wonder if you could get windows to boot off it, lol
13:55.23``Erikgiven that windows only supports x86 (used to support alpha, but tha went away with nt4), I'd say...... no? :)
13:55.54d-loYou killjoy you.
13:56.15d-loWhat about MacOS X?  Could you make a mini-mini?
13:56.28``Eriknope, osX only rusn on ppc and intel
13:56.31``Erikhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture
13:57.29d-lodidnt some of the older flavors of Mac OS support RISC procs?
13:57.38``Erikppc is a risc
13:58.06``Erik68k was cisc
13:58.42``Erik<-- keeps entertaining the notion of buying a 68040 and building a small machine out of it, then writing an oldschool *nix os on it
13:59.03d-lo...but.... why?
13:59.07d-lo=D
13:59.19``Erikfun... and to jog my memory of the fun old days
14:00.46d-loOh, did you find any docs on power consumption?
14:01.05``Erikum, didn't erally look
14:01.32d-loJust curious as to what Idle->Full load power ramp up looks like.
14:01.51``ErikAverage power consumption is around 7.2W. Maximum power consumption measured with all 7 USB
14:01.54``Erikports, HDD and Ethernet operational is 29.9W. In idle state system draws power of
14:01.57``Erikaround 4.8W.
14:02.34d-lo30W on 12Vdc = ~ 2.5 amps.  Notbad.
14:02.53``ErikI imagine a significant portion of that is the hard drive
14:03.15d-loThere is a HD in the lil box too???
14:03.16d-lowow
14:03.27``Erikor perhaps the usb devices being used... my thumbdrive draws 200mw, where the external drive has a power supply ad draws 2mw
14:03.35``Erikwell, not in i t, just the flash, but it has esata
14:03.57``ErikI haven't taken it apart yet, supposedly there's not enough space to fit a 2.5" drive
14:04.16d-lonot too familiar with eSata, actually.  I take it eSata cables also provide power to the device, akin to USB?
14:04.24``Erikno clue
14:05.32d-loGreat.  Some contractors outside my window are putting in ear plugs... this can't be a good sign. :/
14:05.41``Eriklooks out O.o
14:05.55``Erikthey have a circular saw of some kind
14:06.08d-lo...and a score to settle...
14:37.23brlcadd_rossberg: that sounds like expected behavior
14:37.35brlcadyou probably just need to call rt_gettree again
14:37.50brlcadyou should be able to call it repeatedly
14:38.37brlcad(man librt for some additional details)
14:39.00brlcadgettree loads the geometry, so if it's modified, it needs to be reloaded
15:02.37*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.48.97)
15:12.40d_rossbergbrlcad: ok, i've already changed my code, i only wanted to be sure that it's ok
15:13.04brlcadokay
15:14.15jack-``Erik: you could even buy an old amiga3000 and put an 68060 card in
15:14.28jack-those were pretty fast back then ;)
15:14.29brlcaddepending on how you created/added the new prim/region, it's probably possible to avoid the rt_gettrees again
15:15.07brlcadbut at some point the data has to be read (whether from disk or inmem).. and that's presently gettrees job
15:15.49d_rossbergi used my c++ interface from rt^3
15:16.23d_rossbergit is very low-level internally
15:16.30brlcadreally wanting to get bu, bn, pkg, and rt fully cleaned up as stand-alone APIs with cleanly generating doxygen reports, so questions like this are answered more clearly
15:16.35brlcadyeah, I figured
15:17.01brlcadwhich is great, keeps things honest
15:17.22brlcadplan on hitting that section of code up next, for the GE
15:17.26brlcadafter all this cleanup
15:18.16brlcadand annotations, which I'm heartily behind on :/
15:18.38d_rossbergyeah, and solving the brlcadversion.h-question ;)
15:18.47brlcadyep!
15:19.00brlcad200 message in my mailbox that *require* a response.. that's one of them :)
15:19.30brlcad(not all brl-cad related, of course) :)
15:19.58brlcadoh, right, I got through a bunch.. down to just 87 today
15:22.32d_rossbergi have 5 more primitives half-finished ... since April
15:25.58brlcadwhich five?
15:28.00brlcadand what does "half-finished" mean?  they load but don't ray-trace or the API is missing or ...?
15:29.17d_rossbergEllipticalTorus, HyperbolicCylinder, Hyperboloid, ParabolicCylinder and Paraboloid
15:29.26d_rossbergi.e. the easy ones
15:30.37d_rossberg"half-finished" means they are programed by an intern and i hadn't time to look at them
15:31.38d_rossbergit is usually not so much work, however i've other preferences at the moment
16:59.07*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@249.Red-88-11-185.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
17:03.00CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36785 10/rt^3/trunk/ (include/GS/Config.h src/GS/CMakeLists.txt src/GS/Config.cxx): Beginings of Configuration loading system.
17:05.36CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r36786 10/rt^3/trunk/geoserve.config: Add address/port to config file.
17:44.33*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B149CAF.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:48.27CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36787 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (FaceBound.cpp FaceBound.h): Added function to test if FaceBound is oriented.
18:59.39CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36788 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (PullbackCurve.cpp PullbackCurve.h): Added PBC_SEAM_TOL definition to explicitly test trim point sample closeness to surface seam. Also using BREP_EDGE_MISS_TOLERANCE as tolerance input to SurfaceTree::getSurfacePoint().
20:05.43*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1178014899.dsl.bell.ca)
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21:18.23CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36789 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/OpenNurbsInterfaces.cpp:
21:18.23CIA-41BRL-CAD: Use the cues from FaceBound "Orientation" setting to determine loop direction consistency instead of openNURBS BREP LoopDirection() function.
21:18.23CIA-41BRL-CAD: Unitized ON_Line::Direction() used in intersectLines() function, large line magnitudes were causing some tolerence problems with bn_isect_line3_line3().
21:18.25CIA-41BRL-CAD: Gutted Circle::LoadONBrep(), now subdivides arc based on angular extents and builds NURB directly. (Will need to do the same for Ellipse)
21:18.28CIA-41BRL-CAD: Cleanup start/end point code in all the Conic curve loading.
21:45.13*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091204

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091204

00:28.36``Erikheh http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1924624
00:53.03brlcadheh
00:53.14brlcad"wellll... we gotta get rid of the body"
01:01.40``Erikthese days, cellphones are KNOWN to have health risks
01:02.10starseeker?
01:02.57starseekergetting beat up if talking loud on one in a diner?
01:03.08``Erikwatch the collegehumor video... :D
01:03.13starseekerah
01:08.30``Erik"Yeah, well, when I was in prison, we used to sneak stuff in by hiding it up our ass." "I've got some fudge hidden up my ass, you want some?"
01:09.10starseeker"there's an app for that" taken to new heights (or lows)
01:19.19starseeker``Erik: is there a reason to keep mysql.txt in the repository?
01:19.26starseeker(isst)
01:20.19*** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (n=Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1)
01:38.46starseeker``Erik: isst doesn't work for mouse movement on my home box either
01:38.56starseeker(gentoo)
01:39.04starseekergtk 2.18.3 I believe
02:17.06starseekereyes libsdl...
02:26.50CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36790 10/isst/trunk/mysql.txt: dead file
02:27.00``Erikthought I"d killed it a long time ago, seeing it in your dir is why I thought you had an old checkout
02:27.26starseekerah :-)
02:27.31starseekernope, just checked it out
02:27.51starseekeram I right that a lot of isst.c gets reused when using a different toolkit?
02:28.11``Erikthere should be no isst.c
02:28.25starseekerer isst-gtk.c
02:28.59``Erikuhhhh, there's no isst-gtk.c either
02:29.18starseekerfine gui.c :-)
02:29.20``Eriknone of it should be re-used, but look at local_worker.c for the interface
02:29.33starseekerk
02:29.37``Erikgui.c is the gtk+ mess
02:30.36``Erikthe big switch statement will eventually be a single function with a name passed to support a plugin system
02:31.21starseekernods
02:40.52starseekergrowl...
02:53.30``Erik?
02:54.36starseekerlooking for a good toolkit option
02:54.57starseekeragar looks like the winner from the libsdl side, but it has a custom build system and the svn version doesn't compile
02:55.10starseekerTk has a bunch of... funky options
02:57.08starseekerQt might be an option... wonder how fast Qpixmap is
02:58.28starseekerwe're going to use Qt someday anyhow
03:09.40starseekerHMMM.  http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2009/11/10/qt3d-features-in-qt-46/
03:12.42``Erikum, qpainter2d
03:12.55starseekerah
03:13.01starseekeryou looked into it already?
03:13.04``Erikjabba has a fast paint buffer for 2d games
03:13.05``Erikyeah
03:13.15starseekeris it viable?
03:13.21``Erikwhich?
03:13.25starseekerQt
03:13.35``Erikthe qpainter stuff might be adequate, I dunno
03:13.44``Erikthe java stuff is used in 2d games, so it's up to snuff
03:14.09``Erik2d game stuff seems like the richest source for this kinda info
03:15.18``ErikglTexSubImage2D might be the shizzle for portability on 3d gpu equiped machiens
03:15.30starseekernods
03:17.06starseekerhmm.  what's OpenVG I wonder...
03:17.34``Erikvector graphics out of khronos?
03:17.53starseekerwho's khronos?
03:18.14starseekeroh
03:18.18starseekeropen standards group
03:18.21``Erikum, iirc, a consortium glued together to make an ogl replacement that failed?
03:19.07``Erikfarenheit or something?
03:19.52starseekeropengl es?
03:21.57starseekerheh - cool agar dev responded on irc
03:22.11starseekercompiles again...
03:26.44starseekerouch - that make doesn't take a -j option...
03:28.32``Eriknot sounding so incredibly awesome...
03:28.42starseekeryeah
03:29.01starseekerdunno why he doesn't just use autotools or some such...
03:30.15starseekerI'll say this for him - I didn't see much in the way of warnings during the compile
03:31.09``Erik-Wnone ? :D
03:31.14starseekerhehe
03:31.32starseekercould be
03:31.46``Erikwonders where he put the widget toolkit he wrote ontop of sdl O.o
03:32.02starseekerah, here are some errors
03:32.09starseekerjust early in the build when I wasn't watching
03:32.10starseekerk
03:32.46starseekerhang on, may have fed it a malformed -j option...
03:36.43starseekerhmm, weird
03:39.06starseekeralmost works - only fails on first attempt after a clean svn checkout
03:39.19starseekerpastebins for the devs
03:39.37starseekerah, well - not much chance we'd use it anyway, but I'm curious
03:46.36Ralither
03:46.47Ralithisn't the khronos group responsible for OGL itself?
03:47.32Ralith(also, OpenGL ES is a portable complement to OpenGL which, afaik, is active and successful)
03:47.55starseekeryeah, I guess that's true enough
03:48.12starseekerthought ES was intended to be the next OGL, but got shot down (for now at least)
03:48.45Ralithnope
03:48.48Ralithjust a trimmed down version
03:49.13Ralithyou're probably thinking of OpenGL 3, which had lots of exciting new features that got scrapped right before the spec was finalized
03:49.28Ralith(although I'm told most of them made it back into the 3.2 spec, which is out, so that's not so bad)
03:49.48starseekerheh
03:49.54starseekerRalith: how goes school?
03:50.54``Erikyeh, looks like khronos does ogl now, guess to fill the void sgi left... es is 'embedded'
03:51.01Ralithpretty good; just yesterday finished my last major assignment
03:51.07starseekersweet
03:51.11``Erikgrats
03:51.14Ralithintro CS course was predictably blarg
03:51.18starseekerheh
03:51.24Raliththe prof didn't even really know what he was talking about >.<
03:51.33starseekeryeah, that sucks
03:51.56Ralithbut I remain hopeful, as my discrete math and logic & computer design courses were both very good.
03:54.59starseekerexcellent
03:55.13starseekerso you feel like some Ogre+Qt hacking? ;-)
03:57.44starseekerfeels a trifle guilty about spending time on Agar... darn curiosity...
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13:19.53``Erik"are there any open source tools to deal with access .mdb files?" "rm"
13:20.10*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14BF38.dip.t-dialin.net)
13:21.42archivistrm -rf as its a windows box /me ducks
14:10.07``Erikfrikkin' tkhtml3 (AGAIN)
14:11.23starseekernow what is it doing (or not doing)
14:11.36``Erikignoring CPPFLAGS
14:11.55starseekerkinda regrets not just doing the tkimg style hack build - that at least worked most of the time...
14:12.42starseeker``Erik: that might be a Makefile.in issue?
14:13.11``Erikit happens during ./configure
14:13.28starseekernever did get the hang of merging TEA building and automake's Makefile.am, although I suppose I should try it again...
14:13.31starseekerah
14:13.49``Erik./configure CPPFLAGS=-I/some/path/include/tk8.5/   and tkhtml3's subconfigur bitches about not finding tk.h
14:14.48``Erikdoesn't remember if it ever worked right O.o
14:14.50starseekertry --with-tkinclude
14:16.11starseekergets cadtools running... and watches the widgets behave funky
14:16.18starseekeryep, not ready for prime time
14:17.00``Erikheh
14:17.26``Eriktries to act surprised O:-)
14:18.06starseeker<snort> - it's not like I am
14:18.33starseekerjust worth checking - it confirms that an SDL solution means writing our own local widgets as well
14:19.14``Erikor figuring out how to hijack the sdl's SDL_Display shtuffz
14:19.25``Eriksam's a pretty laid back guy, he might be cool with taking a patch
14:19.46starseekerwhat'd you have in mind?
14:20.08``Erikno clue
14:20.44``Erikiirc, when you set up a window or context in SDL, it's very oriented towards having a single window, SDL_InitVideo() or something bangs on globals and stuf
14:20.48starseekerkinda sounds like using another toolkit with it would entail similar issues to Ogre + Qt
14:21.39``Erikoh, SDL_SetVideoMode()
14:22.10``Erikhrm, SDL_SwapBuffers(); uses the global surface
14:22.15starseekeryeah, seeing similar stuff - the tcl-demo code shows tcl/tk controlling sdl, which is OK, simple and might work, but it's not immediately clear if it would also allow 3D manipulation controls and ray firing in SDL
14:22.38``Erikdidja look at local_worker.c ?
14:22.48starseekerglanced at it
14:23.17starseekerwas more trying to figure out what container to put around the adrt stuff before digging into adrt
14:23.38starseekers/adrt/isst
14:23.42``Erikwell, digging through that tiny file tells you what kinda container you're looking for :D
14:23.50starseekerheh
14:23.59starseekerfair enough
14:24.11starseekeralso got sidtracked into reading about NURBS till about 1am
14:24.14starseeker(brain hurts)
14:24.32``Erikponders digging up old svgalib code and figuring out how to do an isst that way :>
14:24.42starseekerew ew ew
14:25.05starseekerdoesn't think he's heard of svgalib for years
14:25.34``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/~erik/files/warp.c heh
14:26.04starseekerhehe
14:27.43``Erik(how the hell did that even work?)
14:27.56starseekerblack magic
14:28.13starseekerheads in - see ya in a bit
14:28.18``Erikit's gotta be setaling shit off the stack
14:28.18starseeker(if you're in)
14:28.26``Eriklinux musta REALLY sucked to make that work
14:29.16starseekermakes a note to study this code and see if sdl window interactions are compatible with it... http://www.libsdl.org/projects/tcl-demo/
14:29.55starseekerif so, might have some fun with mged, libsdl and adrt...
15:08.56``Erikcooks up a bench run on this fpu-less ARM thingy :>
16:48.53*** join/#brlcad cosurgi (n=cosurgi@atak.bl.pg.gda.pl)
16:51.34*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14BF38.dip.t-dialin.net)
17:40.06``ErikAWESOME, negative infinity logarithmic vgr's!
17:40.26``ErikBenchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 0
17:40.26``ErikLogarithmic VGR metric is -inf  (natural logarithm is -inf)
17:40.32``ErikAbs  OpenRD 11386.64    6382.36 6583.38 5773.79 6654.10 7956.48         Thu Dec  4 12:38:24 EST 2031
17:45.24``Erikah
17:45.25``Erikerik@OpenRD ~/src/brlcad/bench$ bc
17:45.25``Erikbash: bc: command not found
17:49.18starseekersupposes sanity checks are in order...
17:49.32starseekerbc, time, other things available on any SANE system...
17:50.39``Erikyeah, need to get linux off of that thing and bring up freebsd...
18:41.27*** join/#brlcad johnson_dm_ (n=johnson_@mail.piasecki.com)
18:41.58starseekerlooks like this might have some hints for metaball->NURBS conversion:  http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.49.9803
18:48.40``Erikinteresting
18:49.31``ErikI'd have to read it more carefully to see if the representations line up the same for the initial data... their approach looks like a good fit for the blinn style surface, but mebbe not the iso one I have
18:49.54``Erikspheres and saddles as the patches, wasn't even thinking of cutting the surface up like that heh
18:51.46starseekermight not be stricly necessary - another possible approach might be to generate control points based on the isopotential gradients... if some mapping can be found that makes sense...
18:52.05starseekermight be a legitimate paper in there somewhere
18:52.13``Erikwell, given that code now exists to find the surface between two points, ... *shrug*
18:52.47starseekeryeah, but when defining the NURBS curve you want to (as much as possible) match the surface curvature, not just smoothly intersect a subset of points
18:52.51starseekerthat might be trickier
18:52.53starseekernot sure
18:53.45``Erikapproximating curvature should be reasonably straightforward with a set of nearby intersections
18:53.49starseekerobviously a surface tree approach and some sort of "flat isopotential within box" approach would let us get very close...
18:54.42starseekeryeah, there's probably some sort of mathy "combinations of radial potentials result in surface curvature of yada..." math that could/should be done...
19:00.18*** join/#brlcad juantelez (n=juan@unaffiliated/juantelez)
19:00.22*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@249.Red-88-11-185.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
19:00.39juantelezhi all
19:01.00*** join/#brlcad Nohla (n=jesica@201.255.245.8)
19:01.11juantelezI have a friend that want to translate the documentation to spanish, here she is
19:01.22juantelezhola Nohla :)
19:01.34juantelezesperemos a ver que dicen, jeje
19:02.04starseekerhowdy :-)
19:02.16juantelezhi starseeker
19:02.41starseekerNohla: hola :-)
19:03.16starseekerunfortunately I don't speak much spanish - I think brlcad speaks some though
19:03.21Nohlastarseeker, hola, sabes español?
19:03.34Nohlaah ok
19:03.35starseekerNohla: no :-(
19:03.42juantelezi have very little experince whit wiki, and, and I'm affraid that if i edit the documentation the english documentation will be lost and all of you will came to my house and kill me
19:03.44juantelezjaja
19:03.51starseekerhehe
19:04.18starseekeractually, what I would suggest is working with the docbook documentation in our tree
19:04.29juantelezstarseeker: do you know how we can edit the doc to translate it whitout erase anything?
19:04.40juantelezlet me see
19:04.40starseekerwe eventually want to get to the point where that is integrated into the wiki, but we aren't there yet
19:04.53starseekerjuantelez: do you have a copy of the brlcad source code?
19:05.01juantelezstarseeker: no
19:05.02starseekerer BRL-CAD (sorry brlcad)
19:05.07starseekerjuantelez: ah
19:05.10starseekerok, that's step one
19:05.32juantelezbut we want to translate the doc not the program itself
19:05.38starseekerright
19:05.41juantelezok
19:05.45starseekerthe docs are in the source tree
19:05.48juantelezok
19:06.00juantelezlet me see if I could find it and download
19:06.00starseekerwe create a docbook file, then build html, pdf and man pages from that one source file
19:06.09juantelezok
19:06.09starseekersimplifies maintaining things no end
19:06.18juantelezok
19:06.41starseekerwhat platform are you on? (Windows, Linux, ...)
19:06.57juantelezGNU/Linux
19:07.04starseekerhttp://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad/files/BRL-CAD%20Source/7.16.2/brlcad-7.16.2.tar.gz/download
19:07.08starseekerlatest release
19:07.12juantelezthanks starseeker !!
19:07.15juantelezNohla: bajate eso
19:07.27Nohlajuantelez, ya juan, lo estoy siguiendo
19:07.28juantelezNohla: que el laburo heavy lo vas a hacer vos! yo soy solo el rrpp! jaja
19:07.36Nohlajajaja
19:07.44juantelezNohla: no me cancheres porque te dejo sola, jaja
19:08.01Nohlajuantelez, sola es cuando mas aprendo
19:08.20starseekerif you're not familiar with Docbook, it's an xml markup language (feels a little like html, but is much more abstract)
19:09.53juantelezstarseeker: thanks a lot!
19:09.57starseekerwhen you expand the tarball, you will see inside the brlcad-7.16.2 directory a doc directory, and within that directory a docbook directory
19:10.08juantelezstarseeker: i guess we will here bodering a lot!
19:10.10juantelezjaj
19:10.54starseekerthe README file outlines the toplevel directories
19:10.54Nohlammm, i thought it was easier
19:11.21starseekerthe directory structure is laid out such that we can create es subdirectories just as we currently have en subdirectories
19:11.21Nohlajuantelez, esa parte la hace vos? yo lo traduzco
19:11.51starseekerjuantelez: if docbook is too much, you're welcome to start on whatever you care to
19:11.56starseekerall efforts are welcome
19:12.16juantelez:)
19:12.26starseekerif you're willing to work on the docbook level though, it will save converting the results to docbook later
19:12.32juantelezNohla: bueno, dame ssh a tu maquina y te digo que traducir, jaja
19:12.55starseekerI recommend starting in the system/man1 directory
19:13.04starseekerthose are manual pages, which are small and self contained
19:13.14juantelezstarseeker: don't worry, Nohla just love to learn, so, she'll work with Docbook
19:13.16juantelezjaja
19:13.38Nohlastarseeker, please, step by step
19:14.00Nohlaand slower
19:14.09starseekerNohla: you have brlcad-7.16.2.tar.gz?
19:14.12Nohlayes
19:14.25starseekerok.  run the following command:
19:14.38starseekertar -xvzf brlcad-7.16.2.tar.gz
19:15.06Nohladone
19:15.24starseekercd brlcad-7.16.2
19:15.37starseekercd doc/docbook
19:15.51starseekercd system/man1
19:16.19starseekeryou should see a README file, a file called mged_cmd_template.xml, and a directory en
19:17.30starseekerfor spanish documentation, we will create a directory at this level:
19:17.33starseekermkdir es
19:17.50starseekerOK so far?
19:18.40Nohlaok
19:19.09starseekerok.  now, if you list the contents of the en directory, you will see many xml files:
19:19.12starseekerls en/
19:20.00starseekerthese files are docbook files
19:20.10starseekerwhat editor do you prefer?  (emacs, vi, etc.)
19:20.53Nohlavim
19:21.00starseekerah :-)
19:21.41starseekerok, vim will work fine.  If you care to investigate it later, there is an emacs tool called nxml that is useful for docbook files, but for now we will use vim
19:21.58starseekerso, open the first file:
19:22.05starseekervim en/3ptarb.xml
19:22.11Nohlai have emacs, but ive neer usd it
19:22.18Nohlai can try if you help me
19:22.24starseekerno need for now
19:22.43starseekerit helps when doing docbook markup, but for a while you will simply be translating
19:22.48starseekerno markup change needed
19:23.25Nohlaok
19:23.33starseekeryou have 3ptarb.xml open?
19:23.45Nohlayes
19:24.26starseekerOK.  You see english sentences and paragraphs?
19:24.32Nohlaahá
19:24.57starseekerfirst sentence to translate is "Build an ARB8 shape by extruding a quadrilateral through a given thickness."
19:25.24starseekerthe xml tangs inside <> brackets (like <refentrytitle>) do NOT get translated
19:25.28starseekeronly content
19:25.39Nohlayes
19:25.48starseekeralso, command and program names (3ptarb, MGED) must stay the same
19:25.49Nohlai saw that content
19:25.55starseekergood :-)
19:26.12starseekerso, now we quit vim and prepare to translate the file
19:26.31starseekeryou made directory es earlier?
19:26.32Nohlaso i should copy all de directory and trasleate just de explanations
19:26.40starseekeryes
19:26.54Nohlaand let them in a diferent directory
19:26.54starseekercp en/3ptarb.xml es/3ptarb.xml
19:27.05starseekerthen edit es/3ptarb.xml
19:27.12Nohlawow
19:27.20Nohlait was easy
19:27.52Nohlai was near to do a lot of stupid things on wikibooks :)
19:28.26starseekerwe would like to edit via wiki, but we must write new code for wiki engine to enable that - not done yet
19:28.51starseekerso, if acceptable, better to do it this way :-)
19:29.03*** part/#brlcad johnson_dm_ (n=johnson_@mail.piasecki.com)
19:29.20Nohlabut i would like to put yhis on the web, where everyone can acces
19:29.24Nohlas
19:29.49juantelezthats the better part
19:29.49starseekeronce you translate some files, we will build html output
19:29.49starseekerhtml can be uploaded to the wiki
19:29.59Nohlathat was the problem that begin this idea
19:30.08starseekernods
19:30.28juantelezthe work that you are doing Nohla, doesn't work only with trnaslation,
19:31.58Nohlaso, i`ll do the first tranlations
19:32.18Nohlathe, how i give them to your proyect?
19:32.31Nohlato be offered with the download
19:32.46juantelezNohla: que queres preguntar?
19:32.51starseekeronce you have the first few done, we will check them over and add them to our source code repository
19:32.52juantelezNohla: me parece que te hiciste quilobmo
19:33.15Nohlajuantelez, el me entendio
19:33.15starseekerif they look good, brlcad may decide to allow you to commit directly to the sourceforge subversion repository
19:33.29Nohlajuantelez, aprende spanglish y despues decime :)
19:33.31juantelezNohla: entendes lo que estas haciendo? estas modificando el codigo de la fuente, despues compilas eso en html para que quede en la pagina
19:33.52starseekerinitially, you can email them to the BRL-CAD email list
19:33.53juantelezNohla: enntendes?
19:34.00Nohlajuantelez, que si
19:34.13Nohlapero no esta en los repositorios si yo no lo mando
19:34.16Nohlasolo en mi maquina
19:34.24starseekerhttp://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=105292
19:34.46starseekerbrlcad-devel would be appropriate here, I believe
19:35.10juantelezNohla: pero te esta diciendo, que lo mandes a la lista para que ellos lo subam o despues lo de brlcad_ y por ahi te autoriza para que hagas el commint vos directamente
19:35.33juantelezNohla: fijate que tienen un par de listas de correo y foros
19:35.44Nohlaque es el commint
19:36.48starseekerWe manage our developent tree using subversion version control system:  http://subversion.tigris.org/
19:37.48juantelezNohla: el proceso de subir lo que modificaste
19:38.26Nohlastarseeker, stop again, step by step
19:38.42Nohlaill do the first, and then y return here for the following
19:38.50starseekerNohla: ok.  
19:39.07Nohlastarseeker, if i do too much, ill leave it soon
19:39.24Nohlaactually, i should be studing right now
19:39.29starseekerno hurry - work at your own pace
19:39.29juantelezjaja
19:39.42juantelezstarseeker: where are you from?
19:39.49starseekerMaryland
19:39.54starseekerUSA
19:40.15juantelezwe are from Buenos Aires, Argentina
19:40.25starseekervery nice :-)
19:40.44starseekerthank you for your interest in BRL-CAD
19:41.14Nohlastarseeker, thank to all you for bring BRLCAD
19:41.39starseekerNohla: if you like doing translations, I will take you through next stages step by step - they are not needed yet
19:41.41juantelezjeje
19:42.10juantelezstarseeker: in fact, her idea of transalate this came up as a need
19:42.36Nohlastarseeker, ive never done translations before this
19:42.40Nohla:)
19:42.57juantelezstarseeker: Nohla contributes a lot with the LUG of her Universty
19:43.06starseekerexcellent :-)
19:43.14juantelez(former my university jaja)
19:43.24Nohlajajajja
19:44.33juantelezand a student from another area tell her that he want to learn to use brl-cad but the language barrer was stoping him
19:45.08Nohlastarseeker, BRL is one (not the first) of the available software in raplace of autocad
19:45.48Nohlaive never seen a person who use it, and i never used it :)
19:46.16Nohlabut a student came to an event with this problem
19:46.22starseekernods
19:46.32starseekeryes, to use BRL-CAD you need to read the documentation
19:46.41Nohlahe wanted to change completed to FS but he dont speak english
19:47.40Nohlaso i offered him this work
19:47.54starseekerNohla: thank you!
19:47.55Nohlafor him and other people in his situation
19:48.56Nohlastarseeker, there some apps or functions that autocad offer, but brl dont ?
19:49.09starseekerOnce you are comfortable with docbook and translating, for beginners the files in doc/docbook/lessons are most important
19:49.15Nohla(sorry if it hard to understand me)
19:49.19starseekerNohla: yes, autocad has features we do not
19:49.23starseekerno problem :-)
19:49.36Nohlastarseeker, wich are them?
19:49.54starseekerwe do not have much ability to do 2D blueprints/sketches
19:50.03starseekerQCAD is better for that
19:50.08starseekerBRL-CAD does solid modeling
19:50.31starseekerAutoCAD is more "polished", more user friendly
19:51.48Nohlaso i will translate qcad :D
19:52.25Nohlawe do not have much ability to do 2D blueprints/sketches:: starseeker, you will?
19:53.03starseekersomeday, but it is not yet a priority
19:53.18``Erikmuch work to be done and very few of us doing it
19:53.21Nohlawhy not?
19:53.44starseekerBRL-CAD is used to model three dimensional objects (like vehicles) for analysis
19:54.02starseekerblueprints are used more in manufacturing
19:54.16Nohlaif you develop that skills i promise to do a good work on difussion
19:54.22``Erikright now, the big pushes are for NURBS support (like Pro/E, unigraphics, rhino3d) and for an updated and modernized user interface
19:54.37Nohlabut to the university it is necesary
19:55.35``Erikhave you seen http://brlcad.org/w/images/4/44/Industry_Diagram.pdf ?
19:56.54starseekerNohla: we would love for someone in the BRL-CAD open source community to develop support for blueprint outputs, but until we have the available resources to devote to it we can't do them well yet
19:57.09starseekerNohla: there IS rtedge, though:
19:58.09starseekerhttp://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/havoc_rtedge.png.html
19:59.21Nohlawow
20:00.43starseekerwe don't have all of the standard "blueprint" boxes and labels, but those can be created with (say) inkscape using an rtedge render as a starting point
20:01.43starseekerso 1. create 3D model in BRL-CAD  2. render hidden line wireframe with rtedge 3.  import into inkscape and add necessary blueprint additions
20:02.33Nohlastarseeker, you should now that i dont kwon how to use brl, and even the think its good to now for beginners
20:03.02Nohlathere will be a lot of thing you will say that ill lose in the middle :)
20:03.08starseekerIt's OK
20:03.35starseekershort version - you can do blueprint-like outputs, but not simple or feature-rich
20:04.05Nohlathe one i know is that the FS have a piece of software on demand
20:04.29Nohlaand im trying to do something to make one option more knowed
20:04.33Nohlajust that
20:04.42starseekerthank you :-)
20:05.38starseekerOnce you have translated a couple of files, please send them to brlcad-devel email list
20:05.52starseekervery exciting
20:07.00starseeker``Erik: by the way, how does gettext play with Windows?
20:07.36``Erikuhhhh, I d'no? I imagine it exists in cygwin?
20:07.42starseekerwinces
20:07.46``Erikwindows are those things I look through when I want to see outside, dude
20:07.52starseekerhehe
20:08.42juantelezhaha
20:09.22starseekernotes that his Mac doesn't have ANY of the posix locale variables set...
20:09.51``ErikLC_ALL=en_BEAVIS_AND_BUTTHEAD
20:10.38starseeker``Erik: hmm, some rather interesting possibilities there (and by interesting I mean disturbing)
20:10.47brlcadwooh, lotsa backlog
20:10.50``Erik(amusingly, all the programs I've gettextized only managed to get a handful of en_ ones and pt_BR)
20:11.19starseekerjuantelez, Nohla: I believe brlcad speaks some Spanish
20:12.06Nohla:)
20:12.07``Erikstarseeker: I've written beavis&butthead and redneck po files ... after seeing some sysadmin utility that had a flag to turn on b&b style messages... :)
20:12.37``Erik(as for backlog, that'll teach brlcad to sleep.)
20:12.49brlcad``Erik: presume that's like the old windows starfield screensaver?
20:13.01``Erikbrlcad: warp.c is, yes
20:14.32brlcadstarseeker: heh, isst used to be hooked up to agar
20:14.40brlcadclanlib ftw!
20:14.55Nohlastarseeker, what is on wikipedia brl is the same that is in /es ?
20:15.01``Eriktried to write a worms armageddon clone with clanlib, didn't like it
20:15.06Nohlawith different format
20:15.26starseekerNohla: er, en you mean?
20:15.32Nohlaor on the wiki, the explanation is clearer?
20:15.40starseekerBRL-CAD wiki content is probably older
20:16.01starseekerbut more complete
20:16.13starseeker(docbook conversion is not complete in english either)
20:16.45starseekerbut once you are comfortable with translating, definitely suggest working on lessons
20:17.01starseekerhundreds of pages of content there, most useful for beginners
20:17.02Nohlabecause, i was thinking that maybe, you souhld tell wich contents are completed and actualized
20:17.09Nohlato beginr with them
20:17.38starseekerdoc/docbook/lessons is essentially complete
20:18.30starseekercontent of lessons is from this document:  http://brlcad.org/w/images/c/cf/Introduction_to_MGED.pdf
20:18.35brlcadand interesting about the bench.. it has checks in there for making sure it exists first
20:18.49brlcadshould fall back to dc or other methods
20:19.01starseekerNohla: that pdf is always first place for new users who speak english to go
20:19.28starseekerso its contents in doc/docbook/lessons are logical first translation, if not overwhelming
20:19.32``Erikdc isn't on the box, either... silly embedded systems, not installing all those fancy tools
20:20.02``Erikbtclsh? expr ? :D
20:20.20brlcadhola Nohla y juantelez
20:20.45Nohlaholas
20:21.01Nohlastarseeker, this are the same pdf on wiki?
20:21.22starseekersame content as pdf on wiki, yes
20:21.34Nohla(sorry, i dont want to lose to much time looking for the best to transleate than translating)
20:22.36starseekeryou want documentation for a new BRL-CAD user, correct?
20:22.44brlcadis still backlogging
20:23.33Nohlastarseeker, give two things: 1) the best content to translate firs. 2) one advice about translating that
20:24.16Nohlaso if i leave the proyect at tha first step, at least ive done something usefull :)
20:24.21starseekerNohla: if there is no concern about amount of content, the lessons are best for new users
20:24.30Nohlaevery day i find new interesting things to do :)
20:24.39starseekerNohla: any translation is useful
20:25.16starseekerfor the request you had, lessons would help him the most
20:25.52Nohlahttp://brlcad.org/w/images/c/cf/Introduction_to_MGED.pdf this is for beginers?
20:26.04starseekeryes
20:27.34Nohlabut imagine that you are a spanish speaking person and start reading that tuto
20:28.03Nohlaread the firs you found and then you realise that there no more contents on spanish
20:28.12Nohlathats sad :(
20:29.33Nohlaor worst, dont read anything because you saw that theres no all the content in your langage
20:30.01Nohlastarseeker, question: the firs you gave me is the source code, really?
20:30.29Nohlathat means that if you tipe for spanish help on console, you will read that?
20:30.57Nohlaor if youre using brl and an advice is shown, that can be available on spanish?
20:31.07Nohla(sorry if the question is too stupid)
20:33.52Nohla(wow if i can translate 287 pages, i would be pride of myself! jejeje)
20:35.55starseekerNohla: the various documentation and help systems in BRL-CAD do not have a unified design
20:36.09starseekerwe are working on correcting that, and docbook will be the eventual solution
20:37.02starseekerbut a FULL translation of all help strings in BRL-CAD would involve many changes in many places
20:37.33Nohlastarseeker, i want to give you my mail for you to send me some information that you belive its usefull to translate
20:37.56Nohlaim getting confused about wichi path to take because there is a lot of options
20:38.13starseekermy suggestion is doc/docbook/lessons
20:38.21Nohlaand i dont know enough to choose correctly
20:38.39Nohlaand what about pdf you sent me?
20:38.42starseekerwithout those, it is hard to use BRL-CAD at all and other translations are much less useful
20:38.47starseekerpdf has same content
20:39.19Nohlaso if i do lesson, then you can drop that content on pdf
20:39.20starseekerdoc/docbook/lessons contains the contents of that pdf
20:39.24starseekeryes
20:39.35starseekerwe build the lessons as individual files
20:39.58starseekerso if you translate mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.xml we can make a pdf from that
20:40.02starseekerand html
20:40.55brlcadNohla: podemos darte permiso a hacer 'commits' al repository si estas "active" con los traducciones
20:41.08Nohlabut, at the same kind of thinking, if i translate the pdf, you can take what you need to drop that on lesson XD
20:41.15Nohlathis is funny
20:41.36starseekerbrlcad: help
20:41.43starseekerI'm not making myself clear
20:41.44Nohlabrlcad, ive never translate anything before
20:42.07brlcadjuantelez: thanks for helping be the intermediate translator :)
20:42.14Nohlastarseeker, nono, im joking :)
20:42.25starseekerah :-)
20:43.29Nohlastarseeker, anyway, my email is giudicejesica@gnutn.org.ar in case you want to guide this work in the foreward step :)
20:43.38starseekerthank you :-)
20:43.59starseekerI suggest doing a spanish translation of mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.xml
20:44.25starseekeremail that to brlcad-devel, and from there we will take the next steps
20:45.55Nohlaso i should translate all te words in white ;)
20:48.31starseekerdepends on what vim syntax highlighting you have on ;-)
20:48.48juantelezbrlcad: :D, my pleassure
20:59.02``Erikdons his dunce cap. *sigh*
20:59.08CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36791 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: set project id on local load (fixes ignored motion events)
21:09.39CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36792 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: restore perspective rendering when leaving shotline mode
21:31.42CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36793 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/metaball/metaball.c: shelling
21:59.31CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36794 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: save a shotline
22:14.12brlcadokay, all caught up with the backlog...
22:15.21brlcadNohla: si te puedes quedar en IRC, me gustaria ayudarte a empezar
22:16.16Nohlabrlcad, estoy
22:16.24Nohlapero la verdad que vengo mas o menos bien
22:16.34Nohlaperdon
22:16.45Nohlaactually, im doing right
22:17.50Nohlabut i need time because i have to study
22:18.25Nohlai pay an exam on monday
22:21.33Nohlai like translate this more than study :P
22:29.14brlcadNohla: jeje, que bien
22:31.15brlcadpues, lo que starseeker dijo eåaa cierto .. empezando con los lecciones ayuda mucho, tambien puedes empezar con el introduccion aqui http://brlcad.org/d/about
22:31.28brlcadyeesh, my unicode isn't working right..
22:42.25Nohlastarseeker, send me an email to keep in touch
22:43.08Nohlaanyway, at the end of the first translate ill send the file by your list
22:43.29Nohlaif you have restriction about that, please moderate my message
22:43.57brlcadrestriction?
22:45.14Nohlaabout de size of the file
22:45.34Nohlai have a list with that restriction
22:45.47brlcadno hay restriction, pero si tienes que ser suscrito a la lista para enviar un mensaje
22:46.23brlcadhttps://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad/lists
22:46.44Nohlawell, in this list, if you are not subscripted and send a message, me or juantelez have to accep it before
22:47.06brlcadah, pues ours will just reject it ;)
22:47.22brlcadcon instrucciones a subscribe
22:47.35brlcad(automaticamente)
22:47.40Nohlanoo
22:47.45Nohlathats bad
22:47.49Nohla:P
22:48.58Nohlai was talking about a email list, not a sourceforge list ;)
22:49.21brlcadsubscribing is pretty easy, if people aren't willing to do that to engage in a discussion, it's not usually a productive discussion
22:49.32brlcadsourceforge lists are email lists
22:49.37brlcadmailman
22:50.10Nohlaaha, i see
22:51.24NohlaI dont know to much of all resources on internet
22:51.41brlcadour lists used to be moderated, but 99% of the moderations were spam and a waste of time to have to reject/ignore daily
22:51.45Nohlawell, i dont know too much of anything :)
22:51.52Nohlaeven english :D
22:51.53brlcadNohla: you're english is pretty good :)
22:52.17brlcadmore than good enough to communicate usefully
22:52.24Nohlawell, thanks
22:53.08Nohlaim leaving, i have to live my life sometimes :P
22:53.14brlcad``Erik: the shelling bug is pretty blatent :)
22:53.36Nohlafrom time to time, I remember I have a family
22:53.51brlcad``Erik: setting the in/out hit distances wrong .. you're making a 1mm shell
22:54.03brlcadNohla: jaja
22:54.11brlcadpues esta bien
22:54.13brlcadgracies
22:54.17brlcader, gracias!
22:54.20Nohla:)
22:54.36Nohlasaludos! y buen fin de semana para todos
22:54.40brlcadsiempre estamos aqui
22:54.46brlcadciao
22:55.00brlcadigualmente
23:09.34``Erikbrlcad; pretty sure something in my stepping function si getting flipped somewhere to cause that...
23:09.46``Erikprobably that stat variable
23:11.42brlcadregardless of the stepping, you're setting in to out+1
23:11.52brlcador out to in+1
23:11.54brlcadwhich can't be right
23:11.57``Erikoh, hrm
23:12.14``Erikum, thought I set something like that to get off the surface to start the walk again
23:12.31brlcadyou don't set in/outs anywhere else
23:12.43brlcadso you end up with 1mm shells being reported back
23:13.27``Erikwill have to look into it... next week O.o
23:13.40brlcadshould back out the ray outside the metaball bounding box too, count all surface hits, then clamp to the ray origin
23:13.58brlcadthat should take care of it
23:27.36CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36795 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: iteration task fail. 64-bit and annotation are incomplete. move them down. also add deprecation of the dbfind command.
23:32.25CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36796 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: new configure option for strict build compilation. this flag, enabled by default, causes the core libraries to consider all compilation warnings as errors and can report C standard compliance failures.
23:53.22CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36797 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: vdeck command truncates the region names in the 'regions' file
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091205

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091205

00:33.22*** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (n=Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1)
00:45.32CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36798 10/brlcad/trunk/ (BUGS TODO): okay, one item to hit before the release.. the dang EDITOR bug needs to get fixed where mged invokes the editor without a controlling terminal.
01:16.13CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36799 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS:
01:16.13CIA-41BRL-CAD: dwayne reports an mged bug where it crashes if you attempt a pick-edit primitive
01:16.13CIA-41BRL-CAD: after drawing an object and doing a killall on one of the contained primitives.
01:16.13CIA-41BRL-CAD: confirmed problem and got a backtrace. null pointer deref in db_dirhash().
01:16.13CIA-41BRL-CAD: looking further.
01:48.02CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36800 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_lookup.c: ws indent style comment consistency cleanup
01:54.11CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36801 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_lookup.c: encountered a crash in db_dirhash() with a NULL str string, make sure it's not null before attempting to dereference.
02:04.53CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36802 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/tree.c: reorder functions to eliminate forward declarations, prefix the hidden static functions with _rt_ to not confuse them with public api.
02:12.41CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36803 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/tree.c: quell verbose compilation warnings, unused params, param checks, dead code
02:56.48CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36804 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/tree.c: only all db_dirhash() if name is non-null just to be safe. (cascading up from an rt_free_rti() crash in mged during pick-edit prim)
02:57.55CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36805 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_tree.c: ws style comment indent cleanup, prefix hidden static funcs as _db_ to not confuse them with public API.
03:03.37CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36806 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_tree.c: more comment cleanup, eliminate dead code
03:17.01CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36807 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 5 dirs): let the compiler do it's job. remove the register keyword (public api declarations being the more important to remove)
04:09.50*** join/#brlcad guillermina (n=guillerm@189-104-16-190.fibertel.com.ar)
04:15.31CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36808 10/brlcad/trunk/ (BUGS NEWS): (log message trimmed)
04:15.31CIA-41BRL-CAD: the changes applied to more carefully call db_dirhash() during
04:15.31CIA-41BRL-CAD: rt_free_rti/rt_clean/db_free_tree/rt_free_soltab fix the crash reported by
04:15.31CIA-41BRL-CAD: dwayne kregel whereby mged would fault on a null pointer dereference after doing
04:15.32CIA-41BRL-CAD: a killall on some primitive and then attempting a Pick Edit-Primitive operation.
04:15.34CIA-41BRL-CAD: not convinced the rtip region reference (and the subsequent soltab entry it was
04:15.36CIA-41BRL-CAD: crashing on) doesn't have some other book-keeping problem given the ordinary
04:39.44CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36809 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/mappedfile.c: oops, r36519 removed the if(debug) covering this bu_log(). restore so we don't keep seeing bu_open_mapped_file() spammage.
04:55.04brlcadAHA ... Bob caused the EDITOR bug!
04:55.53brlcadlibged refactoring, he ripped out the DM tests that were being used to check whether to invoke within an xterm or now
04:55.57brlcad*not
04:56.45brlcadapparently broke back in may 2008
04:57.12brlcadattempts to conjure up a fix that doesn't tie libged to libdm
04:57.23brlcad*must*
05:02.53CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36810 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS:
05:02.53CIA-41BRL-CAD: found the cause of the EDITOR bug. libged refactoring removed the libdm logic,
05:02.53CIA-41BRL-CAD: which ripped out the code needed to invoke editors from within an xterm. have
05:02.53CIA-41BRL-CAD: to rethink how to do this since we obviously shouldn't tie libged to libdm but
05:02.53CIA-41BRL-CAD: need to propagate a 'need to invoke from within xterm' somehow
05:28.10starseekerwondered if that might be libged related
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14:01.12``Erikthinks he has enough to tftp boot arm fbsd on this thingie
15:10.59Raliththis thingie?
15:53.24``Erikopenrd-client, an arm based low power embedded system
15:56.38``Erikthrowin' snowballs at my cats, I'm so horrible
15:58.08starseekeryeah, snowing here too
15:58.12``Erikum
15:58.13``Erikdude
15:58.19``Erikyou're like a 5 minute drive away from me
15:58.20``Erik...
15:58.25starseekerah, that's right
15:58.51starseekerrecoveres trash can before it fills up...
15:58.53``Erik<-- was all nervous driving back from the frrst hill vet, on the corne rby the post office
15:59.15starseekerare the cats attacking the snowballs?
15:59.16``Erikbtw, you drive by both a vet and a fancy petstore
15:59.23``ErikI scooped some snow off my back deck
15:59.26starseekerah, excellent
15:59.48``Erikum, 24 and 23, if you drive north one block, turn left onto jarretsville road, the very first right (on the corner) is the vet
16:00.17``Erikoff of 23, just before the 1 junction, behind the wendies, is a fancy pet supply store, lots of like organic catfood and shit
16:01.03starseekercool
16:01.17starseekeryeah, ours has one particular brand that she eats and nothing else
16:01.18``Erikhttp://local.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=39.585266,-76.388688&spn=0.001089,0.003275&z=19 is th evet, dr saad
16:01.52``Erikhttp://local.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=39.56895,-76.356206&spn=0.00109,0.003275&z=19 catfood store, entrance on granary, it's tricky
16:02.03``Erikif'n ya'll want, I'll show ya some day
16:02.15starseekercool, thanks - that might be useful
16:02.38``Erikdoubts he woulda mentioned if it he didn't think it would be...
16:02.54``Erikand in my old age, I have a sharp eye for useful vs useless... thus the dismissal of agar... :D
16:03.01starseekerhehe
16:03.06starseekeryeah, yeah - rub it in
16:03.26``Erikwell, shit
16:03.29starseekerjust woke up, not up to speed yet
16:03.37``Erik"yeah, uh, right... doub thtat's going anywhere" ... a week later "uh, it iddn't go anywhere"
16:03.46``Erik<-- looks for his "I told you so" coupon book
16:04.06``ErikO:-) srry, I'll behave
16:04.17starseekerit COULD go somewhere, but effort vs. need just doesn't cut it for us
16:04.46``Erikthis is fucktarded, this crt has the signal light lit, but isn't displaying anything... if something sleeps on it, it's gone... have to reboot for a resync signal
16:04.50``Erikneed to buy an lcd I guess :/
16:05.10starseekerpoor you
16:05.30``Erikwell, I have to reboot this archaic machine with this halfassed windows 2000 disk image
16:05.38starseekeroh, that one
16:05.38``Erikso I can get 'putty' running in serial mode
16:05.43``Erikso I can get a console on my new arm machine
16:05.44``Erik:/
16:05.52starseekerso it's kinda a pearls/swine sorta thing?
16:05.58``Erikif I leave it long enough to sleep the display, I have to start all over
16:06.11``Erikand it's a long twisty ugly path
16:06.11starseekeryeah, that's suckage
16:06.14``Erikfull of grues.
16:06.27``ErikWTFF
16:06.50starseekerdoesn't recall - does your kitten get eaten by the grue too? 'cause it's getting spooky if it does
16:06.52``Erikreboot didn't click the display
16:07.20``Eriklamest wyse term evar.
16:07.43``Erikeffin' fbsd doesn't seem to click on cu or tip... :/ says it does, btu no noist
16:07.45``Eriknosie
16:07.49``Erikbah!
16:08.26``Erikand that r/c car battery has been charing for an hour on a 10 minute charger, glad it didn't turn into a fireball while I was gone
16:09.02``Erikthe bottom is quite hot
16:09.55``ErikI've decided that these team losi micro thingies are good cat toys
16:14.07starseekerhehe
16:14.19starseeker(sorry, I'll be in and out her)
16:14.21starseekerhere
16:14.42starseekerdo your cats have a preference for fuzzy, shiny, or loud toys?
16:14.50starseeker(ours goes shiny every time)
16:21.19starseekerhmm... there could be a problem here with christmas decorations and a cat who likes shiny...
16:23.11``Erikshiny is a bonus, fuzzy is ok
16:23.35``Erikpart of the foil wrapper from some guitar strings is an awesome toy, a dried out energizer battery is good fun downstairs
16:23.55``Erikthe boy carries the fuzzy fishing pole around all the time
16:23.57``Erikwhen I play guitar, the girl goes psycho over my computer chair
16:26.28``Erikrubs hsi face
16:28.47``Erikbwahahhaa, I just sprinted down the hall, kitten was at the base of the stairs, ran back and into the bathroom, scared teh snot out of her O:-)
16:28.50``Erikpoor cats
16:35.55starseekerwhoops
16:36.08starseekerI think it's on page 3 of the cat manual - don't run over
16:36.46starseekerhave yours discovered the joy of batting pens around?
16:39.41``Erikyes
16:39.54``Erikbut they've also felt the brutal defeat of my computer chair
16:40.07``Erikclockwise clockwise clockwise clockwise counterclockwise.
16:40.10``Erikfreaked out cat
16:40.18Nohlastarseeker: such a sweet nickname! :)
16:41.24``Erikhome teacup ride for cats
16:41.25``ErikO:-)
16:45.00``Erikmails nohla some snow O.o
16:57.40``ErikI htink the cats are more scared of the tiny r/c car than anything else
16:58.55starseekerhehe - robocat
16:59.23starseeker``Erik: make sure you're nice to them some time or you'll have two seriously messed up cats ;-)
17:00.27starseekerupdates and compiles BRL-CAD... this machine feels slower all the time...
17:00.44starseekeroh, forgot to sync stable
17:00.50starseekerdoes that...
17:01.05``ErikI'm nice to them lots
17:01.46starseekerdo you think either of them are potential roomba cowboys (or girls, as the case may be)?
17:02.06``Erikno, they seemed terrified of the car
17:02.31``Erikhorrible decision of "do I flee or attack"
17:05.24starseeker``Erik: what's the fastest computer they can pack into a wrist watch these days?
17:05.53starseekerfigures when a watch PC gets more powerful than this machine, it's time to think about upgrading
17:19.27starseekerummm
17:19.44starseekersvn merge https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk@$PREV https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk@HEAD .
17:19.48starseekersvn: 'https://brlcad.svn.sf.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/branches/STABLE' isn't in the same repository as 'https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad'
17:20.57starseekercute - apparently svn doesn't cue in on sf and sourceforge being identical
17:30.03CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36811 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: Stick a note into HACKING about needing to watch sf vs sourceforge in merging situations.
18:36.48*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=matthew@dhcp-143-147.mcme-students.carleton.ca)
19:33.53CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36812 10/brlcad/branches/dmtogl/ (232 files in 66 dirs): sync with trunk to r36810
19:38.32CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36813 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (376 files in 92 dirs): sync STABLE to trunk r36810
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20:20.26*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
20:21.19``Erikghah
20:26.33*** join/#brlcad __monty__ (n=toon@91.182.157.13)
20:27.18__monty__Is this the right place to ask about getting BRL-CAD to work?
20:27.37``Erikpossibly
20:27.42``Erikwhat's the issue?
20:28.57__monty__When I try running mged I get an error:  bash: /usr/brlcad/rel-7.12.2/bin/mged: Bad CPU type in executable
20:29.16``Erikso you downloaded a binar package instead of compiling it?
20:29.26__monty__yes
20:29.37``Erikthat tells me that you downloaded the package for a machine you do not have
20:30.03``Eriklike trying to use the PPC mac version on an intel mac
20:30.22__monty__Do you know where I can find the right ppc mac version(g5) then?
20:30.37``Erikah, g5 mac?
20:30.41__monty__yes.
20:30.41``Erikdo you have xcode?
20:30.45__monty__fes
20:30.50__monty__*yes
20:30.58``Erikif you care to spend 20 minutes, I would recommend getting the source and compiling it
20:31.11``Erik(most of the mac using devs have gone to the intel series...)
20:31.21``Erik<-- pets his core duo macbook O:-)
20:31.46__monty__I'm not very proficient with compiling though.
20:31.49``Erikyou need X11.app to run BRL-CAD, too
20:31.56``Erikum, it's "./configure && make instal"
20:32.03``Eriku"./configure && make install"
20:32.20__monty__with xcode?
20:32.31``Erikno, using a terminal.app windo
20:32.50__monty__Then why did you ask if I had xcode?
20:33.06``Erikjust make sure you have both X11.app and Xcode installed, crank up an xterm or terminal.app and do the configure&&make cycle
20:33.14``Erikbecause xcode installs gcc, you need gcc
20:33.57__monty__So gcc isn't installed by default?
20:34.00``Erikthe gui for xcode is irrelevant, it's the other stuff it installs
20:34.00``Erikno
20:34.07``Erika mac out of the box does not have gcc
20:34.20``Erikpart of the 'xcode' package :/
20:34.46__monty__Is the xquartz 2.4.0 version of x11 good?
20:34.52``Eriksure
20:34.55``Erikshould be
20:35.32``Erik<-- using an xquartz himself, doesn't know which version
20:35.53__monty__Should I just get the latest source?
20:35.59``ErikI'd say so
20:36.25``Erikafter you run ./configure, look at the options to mkae sure it looks ok
20:36.35__monty__From sourceforge or via some kind of version control?
20:36.47``Erikyou want the X11 capability enabled, you don't care about opengl, um, tcl/tk should be built
20:36.53``Erikjust the tarball from sf
20:37.01``Erikoccasionally the svn version gets broken
20:37.38``Erikif you're not comfortable with gcc and all that, the release source tarball is safest
20:38.03__monty__Ok, thanks for helping me by the way.
20:38.09``Erikis assuming you "Just want it to work"
20:38.37``Erikand I'm a unix guy,not a mac guy, so'z that's the path to 'success' I'm trying to drag ya down... :)
20:38.48``Erikno problem, sorry for making ya install shit ya might not wanna O:-)
20:39.14__monty__likes all kinds of shit.
20:39.55``Erikwell, shoot, before I went to the vet, I shoulda used a fedex box insteado fthe toilet then O:-) *duck* :D
20:41.39__monty__Btw I'm a supporter of UNIX, mac os is just my favorite gateway to it.
20:45.56``Erikokie, welcome to the club :D
20:46.46``Erikyeh, osX out of the box lacks X11 support and a compiler... X11.app gives you the X11 support plus all the headers, Xcode gives you a compiler and a slew of other dev tools
20:47.24``Erikjoe shmoe who buys a mac doesn't have a clue what an 'X11' or a compiler are, so the default install isn't "burdened"
20:48.04``Erikwe're compile friendly on a stock mac with X11 and gcc, we're even autoreconf friendly there...
20:48.18``Erikexpect a late 80's unix style gui... :D
20:48.37``Erikbut ~400 cmd line tools
20:49.22__monty__Have you even used everyone of em?
20:49.39``Erikdoes not parse... huh?
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20:50.13__monty__?
20:50.32``Erik"everyone of em"? whu?
20:50.52__monty__Every one of those ~400.
20:51.05``Erikahhh, oh hell no
20:51.09``Erikbut a couple dozen, tons
20:51.15``ErikI almost never fire up the gui
20:52.01``Erikand the other paid guys hear me bitching up a storm every time I have to run the gui
20:52.15__monty__Who needs a GUI anyway, right?
20:53.10``Erikindeed :) once you get things installed, if you feel masochistic... my avenue is to run "mged -c" instead of "mged"
20:53.49``Erikbut I'm odd, my big adventure this weekend is getting a new arm machine to boot freebsd when the only usable interface to uboot is via serial
20:53.57``Erikthis'll be a fun weekend :D
20:54.25``Erik(openrd-client if you're curious, got it in fedex shipment a fewd ays ago)
20:55.51__monty__I don't really have a clue of what a herculian task that will be, the only thing I know about freeBSD is that I couldn't even get it to run in a virtual machine.
20:57.45``Erik:) fbsd is my home turf, but this device is not a normal x86 machien... it's an ARM computer, the bootloader is "uboot" (it has nothing comparable to a bios), vga does nto start on boot it's all serial, ...
20:58.24``Erikthe notion of dumping my old p3 for a fanless micro-machine is just too hot
20:58.45``Erikno FPU, the BRL-CAD benchmark is pathetic, it's only like 10 vax11/790's or so
20:59.02``Erikbut it should run things like irssi, finch, natd, tinyproxy, etc just fine
20:59.25``Erikmy brianfuck interpreter is 30% faster on this fpu-less thingie than my normal server
20:59.55__monty__Cool, brianfuck have to try that out some time.
21:01.04``Eriknah, nah ya don't... I wrote a brainfuck compiler because it's 2 opcodes more than the proven minimal turing machine, I did it to facilitate fundamental optization research
21:01.16``Erikit's not a user friendly language :)
21:02.10__monty__I was joking about your misspelling of the name, you got that right?
21:02.28``Erikoh, sorry, missed that :)
21:03.04``Erikif'n yall wanna fuck brian, that's all ya'lls biz
21:03.49``Erikgrok, folk come here who use mac or windows and don't have an inkling of what a command line might possibly be...
21:03.52``Erik:)
21:04.15``Erikso'z we have to take a minimal understanding approach when we start talkin' to people
21:05.26__monty__G*ddamned I hate being stuck with leopard, just waited half an hour for a download, started the installer got the message: 'A version of Mac OS X 10.6 was not found'
21:05.41``Erikhah
21:05.46``ErikI'm using leopard myself
21:05.54``Erikthey still support g5 with 10.5?
21:06.06__monty__yeah =)
21:06.30``ErikI'm sad taht they went intel... the g5 is a beastly chip
21:06.56``Erikgcc just produced shit code for it, so people thought it was slow :(
21:07.20__monty__It's like you can read my mind.
21:07.20``Erika decent asm coder could demolish even the quad core x86 crap, I'd imagine
21:07.49``Erikdude, you're tlaking to a dude trying to push an ARM fpu-less embedded machine in as a home server...
21:08.08``Erikif you don't jibe, crank the geek knob to 11, then you'll be here :D
21:09.47``Erikif I werne't so disgusted by how shoddy the guts of linux are, this'd already be my server
21:12.30__monty__What's your day to day job?
21:12.51``Erikmine? working on BRL-CAD, actually
21:13.19``Erikmore time spent making things "just work" for folk, sysadmin et
21:13.55brlcadwaves
21:13.56__monty__... Of course, man I'm thick skulled today.
21:14.02``Erikyargh, brlcad, 'sup?
21:14.11brlcadstarseeker: cool, thanks!
21:14.32``Eriknah, this is one of the ... uh... probably, the only modelling software that's open source and funded
21:14.35brlcad``Erik: *burp* not much
21:15.18``Erikbrlcad: monty is trying to get a reasonable version working on his G5, ...
21:15.34brlcadand actually production-quality, in use, heavy featured, ..
21:15.35``ErikI'm gonna go jam out some toons on my gitfiddle, picked up "daytripper" this morning
21:16.09brlcadhowdy __monty__
21:16.21__monty__yarrrrrr matey
21:16.29``ErikHEY!
21:16.37``Erikit's not september anymore
21:16.53``Erikas awesome as talk like a pirate MONTH is (cuz the 19th ain't 'nuff), it's not sept
21:16.59``Erikewnch
21:17.21__monty__No way! It's oktober allready?
21:17.31__monty__Damn I should get some sleep.
21:17.32``Erikalmost!
21:18.17``Erikbets that if he brought his small amp, crap boxes and old guitar to work, mumbles eds would shit bricks
21:23.52__monty__M  is  trying in A well
21:23.59__monty__Ignore that.
21:24.51__monty__is trying inkwell
21:26.30``ErikI lost a wheel clip :/
21:27.55starseekerbrlcad: welcome :-)  trying to update rel8 but I messed up somehow
21:28.54__monty__only had to try three times to get that last sentence right.
21:30.30__monty__Do any of you know inkwell?
21:32.36*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@249.Red-88-11-185.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
21:33.56__monty__Does  the configure & & make cycle take long?
21:34.31__monty__I wrote that in one GO :-)
21:37.52__monty__Am I getting too annoying ?
21:39.40__monty__Or are you guys just not following?
21:39.58starseekerirc is intermittent - we'll be off and on
21:40.06*** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (n=Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1)
21:40.17``Eriknot annoying, just not responsive... is there supposed to be something we react to?
21:40.24``ErikI can't find the right hot glue gun :/
21:40.31starseekerconfigure and make can take a while
21:40.38``Erikfound one without ammo and shit I didn't know I had
21:40.40starseekerespecially on a slower machine
21:41.07``Erikconfigure&&make can take anywheere between 3 minutes and an hour... more on slow hw
21:50.53*** join/#brlcad __monty___ (n=toon@163.156-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
21:51.22CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36814 10/brlcad/branches/rel8/ (232 files in 66 dirs): Sync to trunk r36811 (I think)
21:55.30starseekerbrlcad: can we delete src/other/jove in rel8?
21:57.05*** join/#brlcad __monty___ (n=toon@163.156-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
22:01.53starseekerok, diff checks out we're synced
22:06.31*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=matthew@dhcp-143-147.mcme-students.carleton.ca)
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22:49.06``Erikdang kitties... he's grooming her... its too damn cute
22:51.14__monty__M  d  kC is busy. =)
22:51.35__monty__Make is busy
22:58.10starseeker``Erik: hey, it beats having them fight
23:00.30``Erikheh, true
23:00.42``Erikthey're sleeping now, which scares me, cuz they'll be up all night
23:03.11brlcadstarseeker: sure
23:10.47CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36815 10/brlcad/trunk/src/liboptical/sh_light.c: quellage
23:11.03__monty__God  how  much longer  is  this going to take...
23:12.31``Erikheh
23:12.46``Erikthe compile?
23:12.51__monty__make
23:13.06``Erikthat's it on now?
23:13.17__monty__Yes.
23:13.24``Eriker, what's it on now?
23:13.45__monty__? Make.
23:13.58``Erikyeh, but which dir?
23:14.00``Erikwhat files?
23:14.18``Eriksrc/other is like half of it...
23:16.00__monty__open N UR BS primarily.
23:16.26__monty__also bib tool
23:16.44__monty__lib tool
23:16.58``Erik<-- argued to NOT include openNURBS mandetorily *shrug*
23:17.24``Erikanything c++, actually... the compile times for c++ ... rapes baby kittens for no real benefit.
23:17.28``Erik:D
23:19.34__monty__Sorry  for  my  slow æsponIs,  this handwriting  &  recognition cisnt  always  equally accurate.
23:21.47__monty__It  is  fun  to  play with though.
23:24.39brlcadheh
23:25.02brlcadyeah, __monty__ .. it's not even a third done if it's still in openNURBS
23:26.05__monty__Is FreeBSD a server system  to you or  do  you also  Use  it  as a  desktop system. ?
23:27.22brlcadonce openNURBS is done it'll be a little over a third to half complete with the compile
23:27.49__monty__Make is at src/other/test
23:29.15__monty__./src/other/step/src/test.
23:30.19__monty__Make  is  the  longest step right?
23:30.20brlcadokay, it's past it then
23:30.23CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36816 10/brlcad/branches/rel8/ (configure.ac src/other/Makefile.am src/other/jove/): Won't be needing jove in Release 8
23:30.31brlcadheh yes
23:30.44brlcadmake is almost the entire time
23:31.00brlcadlast step is to install, which just takes a couple minutes
23:31.19__monty__ffeeewwww.......
23:31.59starseekerMWAHAHAHA die jove die
23:33.55__monty__You  do  know  that jove  is  the  latin name for Zeus, right?
23:33.58``Erik__monty__: I tend to use fbsd as a server all over and a mac running X11.app as my 'desktop'
23:34.58``Erikmost of my computer usage is via ssh into a fbsd system
23:35.25brlcaddidn't know that about jove, but it also stands for "Jonathans Own Version of Emacs" in this context.. an old streamlined emacs fork
23:35.52__monty__X11  as  desktop, on a Mac, sacrilige !!!
23:37.45``Erik99% of what I do is via ssh/screen
23:40.35__monty__brlcad in  latin  is  actually Iovis , but the  i  sounds  as  j  and -e is a termination.
23:41.44__monty__Damn openNURBS  just  poped back up.
23:43.54__monty__lets  fire  up  itUnes and  listen some blues  to relax.
23:46.24__monty__Ah Sonny Boy...
23:47.14__monty__Aha Juke
23:51.44__monty__I'm  off  to  bed,  had enough off  watchìng terminal not  do anything i'll  check  for  errors in the  morning. Good night all.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091206

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091206

02:17.38*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
02:17.38*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || #brlcad logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || Release 7.16.2 posted (20091106) .. full binary release!
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07:49.14*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || #brlcad logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || Release 7.16.2 posted (20091106) .. full binary release!
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10:08.25__monty__Anyone on?
10:15.00__monty__I  get  Bus  error  When trying  to run mged.
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11:18.31*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || #brlcad logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || Release 7.16.2 posted (20091106) .. full binary release!
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13:06.00__monty__Any help on Bus error when starting mged?
13:11.20``Erikcan ya run it in gdb?
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15:16.07__monty__Are you still on?
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20:06.38starseekerwinces as all his ram and swap are eaten by a step-g attempt and he is forced to reboot...
20:07.46starseekerwonder how I can reserve some ram just for X11 and related "basic" desktop stuff so no app ever grabs all the memory...
20:08.07starseekeror I suppose I could reinstall and up the swap...
20:10.13``ErikO.O
20:10.19``Erikum
20:10.24``Erikuse a slightly less retarded os? :D
20:10.48``Eriklast time I oom'd linux much, its termination criteria were... very... retarded
20:11.35``ErikI had some small utilities I coded up to try to control swap vs ram stuff, simply never needed 'em after moving to fbsd... :)
20:11.43``Erik"soil" was the one I tended to use the most I think
20:12.00``Erikit pissed all over memory, forcing idle procs down into swap
20:12.44``Erikhas managed to break the serial console on his new toy, but it still boots and is ssh-able :/
20:26.16jesica_starseeker, are you there?
20:26.39jesica_there something not cery clear for me in the manual
20:26.45jesica_cery/very
20:30.24``Erikhe may be busy trying to figure out how to make linux not suck, throw your query out and idle until someone can answer it? :D
20:31.52jesica_"If you type a z and your cursor is still in the Graphics Window, you will send your design spinning." that means it will rotate?
20:33.06jesica_the only place where i heard the spin word was in chemistry: P
20:35.05brlcadstarseeker: hehe, how much memory do you have?
20:36.42brlcadjesica_: yes, it means it will begin rotating
20:36.54jesica_brlcad, thanks
20:37.03brlcadrotating about the z axis if you press z
20:37.18brlcadand reverse direction if you press Z
20:37.34brlcadand about the other two axes for x and y, 0 to stop
20:38.02jesica_brlcad, im not in that page yet :)
20:38.09jesica_but thank you
20:38.36jesica_remain im just doing the translating, not using brlcad
20:39.07jesica_brlcad, why you have a nickname so important for this chanel?
20:39.59jesica_ate "do", mmm
20:40.38*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=Don@c-71-238-51-148.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
20:43.04starseekerjesica_: he is the project lead for the BRL-CAD open source project
20:43.42starseekerbrlcad: 1.5 gig ram, waaaay to little swap (500 meg)
20:43.47jesica_starseeker, :) hi
20:43.52starseekerhowdy :-)
20:44.27starseekerinstalled before he had an external hard drive - begrudged handing over several gigs for a proper swap partition
20:48.27starseekerreally doesn't want to reinstall again until he gets a new machine - this configuration has had all the major gotchas ironed out (event got virtualbox working)
20:54.07starseeker``Erik: I might be convinced to take a run at FreeBSD the next go-around, or maybe opensolaris - hate to give up all the OS specific knowledge, but would be an interesting experience
20:54.27starseeker(as long as sbcl runs well, of course ;-)
20:56.11*** join/#brlcad __monty__ (n=toon@d51A543C3.access.telenet.be)
20:56.52__monty__Anyone know anything about a Bus error when trying to launch brlcad?
20:57.06``Eriksbcl works quite nicely on fbsd, just make sure to enable threading when you run the 'make configure' step (uh, I think gentoo forces you to edit a file to set those? fbsd gives you a 'dialog' driven configurator)
20:57.44``Erikthere should be no bus error, have you tried running it in gdb to see what actually fails? can you give us info on version, how you got it, operating system, hw, etc?
20:59.26``Erikrubs his chin and contemplates wasting energy to regret knocking the fuzz of
20:59.29``Erikoff
21:00.42__monty__I don't know how to run it in gdb, I'm trying to run latest version of the source from SF on an intel mac this time.
21:01.40``Erikok, from the command line (xterm or Terminal.app... you need X11.app running), run "gdb /usr/brlcad/bin/mged" and it'll give you a prompt, type in "run" and hit enter
21:02.33``Erikif it's bus faulting, it'll say so in that window, say where it crashed, and give you a prompt again, you need to run "backtrace" and paste the results to http://paste.bzflag.bz/ or http://paste.lisp.org
21:03.00``Erik(latest version being the tar.gz file, not the subversion checkout?)
21:03.25``Erik7.16.2 or something? heh
21:04.08__monty__yes tar.gz
21:05.14``Erikintel mac is a 1st tier platform for BRL-CAD, it really should work... was /Applications/Utilities/X11.app running when you tried to start mged?
21:05.34__monty__no but it did launch
21:05.34``Erik(or xquartz, which is what I use on my home mac)
21:05.49``Erikok, then the gdb backtrace output is the next step
21:06.46__monty__from where to where do I copy?
21:07.04``Erikstarseeker: I imagine that if you give go at another OS, you'll learn even more about the one you're leaving... I know I learned a LOT about linux by going to bsd, and a lot about x86 by using sparc and mips
21:07.13``Erikgdb should be installed if you have xcode
21:07.24``Erikas /usr/bin/gdb
21:07.28``Erikrun it in a terminal window :)
21:08.10__monty__I have the output, I just don't know which part I should copy =S
21:08.50``Erikum, from backtrace? should be a full printout of the call stack... paste every from the command to the next prompt to one of those websites I mentioned
21:09.36__monty__starting from run or backtrace?
21:09.43``Erikum, all of it *shrug*
21:09.55``Erik(thus the site, instead of irc...) :)
21:12.24``Erikwaits for the link on http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/
21:15.09CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36817 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: back-annotate the step-g work from Keith Bowman. still need to add in the summary paragraphs, but annotate all of the 7.16 releases with the continued improvements.
21:20.48__monty__sorry that it took so long, I was trying to paste too much.
21:20.56__monty__Here's the link http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m59a77916
21:30.42jesica_starseeker, firs file done :)
21:31.11jesica_ill send it to a friend for a review before to send it to you
21:33.31``ErikX_open_dm() interesting
21:35.40``ErikI d'no what's up there, looks like a sig11, but you compiled with debugging disabled and it seems to work on other machines :/ willing to re-compile with optimization turned off and debugging stuff enabled?
21:36.32__monty__sure how do I set the flags?
21:37.32``Erikwhen you run configure, add --disable-optimized --enable-debug
21:37.45``Erikmake clean, configure, build...
21:40.35starseekerjesica_: excellent! :-)
21:41.28jesica_now, to study! I wana kill myself :P
21:44.24``ErikO.o
21:45.29starseekerjesica_: hang in there, that studying pays off
21:46.57``Erikjust a bit loca? O.o
21:49.20jesica_``Erik, not afraid of crazy women? careful what you say :)
21:49.45``Erikafraid? no... seem to have a history
21:50.14``Erikstudying what? schoolwork? or something about BRL-CAD?
21:54.07``Erikcurses up a storm because he cooked some stew for lunch that he'd intended for making a breadbowl :/
21:55.46jesica_studying algorithm
21:56.48``Erikah, graph theory, trees, etc? good luck with that... I love the subject, but when I took courses, the teacher was very much focused on the math, not the theory
21:57.29``ErikI bought a school targetted text book because it had a section over a certain data structure I was interested in O.o (trie's)
21:57.50jesica_ive studied all this thingf in discrete math?
21:57.59``Erikzapp hack on a trie gives you fast easy completion
21:58.47``Erikhm, perhaps a language barrier, the discrete mathematics courses I took had very little relation to the fundamental algorithm courses.... mebbe I just don't understand the correlation
22:00.09``Erikeither way, crazy woman, enjoy your study :) if you're horribly stuck on a subject, there're folk in this channel with much experience and knowledge, may be of use.. if you try to cheat, don't be surprised when someone says "do your own damn homework" :)
22:01.07jesica_im not studying yet
22:01.28jesica_im looking for someone to do a second review of the tranlation
22:01.31jesica_:P
22:02.19``Erik<-- can help on english, some japanese, and a tiny german... definitely not anything in the es_ directory... perhaps when brlcad wakes, he can assist? he lived in panama for a while and picked up some language
22:02.49*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=matthew@69-196-189-208.dsl.teksavvy.com)
22:03.17``Erikif we put your work out publically, perhaps someone will notice and comment... open source, yay
22:04.35jesica_thats true
22:04.45jesica_but i prefere to do it the best i can
22:04.56__monty__Gn everyone.
22:04.59``Erika common deficiency
22:05.17``Erikhow's the fresh build going, monty? going to have another bt for us soon? :)
22:06.12__monty__I don't know, openNURBS (grinds teeth while saying that) is still popping up all over the place.
22:07.13``Erikjesica: if you spend all your time trying to polish your work, you avoid the true advantage of the open source scheme... even if it's crap, throw it out! soon! often! the downfall of keeping it private is referred to as a "polished turd" in some US subcultures, ya spend all your time focused on making it perfect when there's a fundamental flaw
22:08.01``Erikmonty: openNURBS is mebbe 50% or so of the compile time... once it hits libbu, it'll cruise alone quick
22:09.08__monty__XML_CATALOG_FILES is the most popular line right now
22:09.43starseekeruh - you're in the docs then
22:09.45starseekeralmost done
22:10.27starseekerheads to store
22:10.41``Erikdang xslt crap
22:10.46__monty__tails to store
22:11.00``Erikif I figure out who did that... and the tkhtml3... there'll be some whuppin'
22:11.08``Erikcar cdr?
22:11.36__monty__cheers, we need more whuppin' up in here!
22:12.11__monty__just entered 'make install'
22:12.44``Erik(starseeker imported the tkhtml3 stuff, did all the xsltproc crap, ... )
22:13.09``Erikmakes my crimes of automake/autoconf seem trivial :D
22:14.34__monty__Ok, still getting Bus error.
22:14.53``Erikand does the backtrace now include function, file, line number, etc?
22:15.49__monty__It looks very similar to the previous one.
22:16.18``Erikjust X_open_dm(), not X_open_dm():4123 ?
22:16.48__monty__#0  0x0012f90b in X_open_dm (interp=0xb6cc08, argc=6, argv=0xbfffcdd4) at dm-X.c:376
22:17.06``Erik376, ok, that's important
22:17.58__monty__Maybe this part is helpful: Program received signal EXC_BAD_ACCESS, Could not access memory.
22:17.58__monty__Reason: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE...
22:18.32``Eriknah, tha'ts just a sig11
22:18.43__monty__okie
22:19.35``Erikif I were to try to talk about changing source to get ot this, would you be comfortable altering the source and trying?
22:20.06__monty__sure. If it's a small alteration.
22:20.10``Erikyuh oh, starseeker has been all over this file lately, no wonder it's all busted
22:20.48``Erik(he is so gonna kick my arse on tuesday)
22:21.18__monty__hopes you get that on camera.
22:26.03``Erikyuh oh, we don't have version tags/branches
22:26.53``Erik'k, looks like dmp isn't being set right
22:27.56``Erikwhich probably means BU_GETSTRUCT fails, whihc means out of memory
22:29.14__monty__which tells us...
22:29.53``Eriknot sure, lack of system memory? *shrug*
22:30.20``Erikif you have subversion, mebbe the latest version will work?
22:30.25__monty__RAM or other kind
22:30.40``Erikram and swap, I"d imagine, I dunno
22:31.14``Erikto be honest, I was kinda hoping brlcad would step in and take over so'z I could go nap O:-)
22:31.59__monty__Ok than, I'll give up for today, Bus error you may have won the battle but the war isn't over yet.
22:32.26``Erik:) sorry I couldn't be more helpful, this delves into pieces I avoid
22:32.49__monty__No problem, I'm happy you tried.
22:33.05``Erikstarseeker and brlcad probably know a LOT more about that piece than I do
22:33.15``Erikthey might be on tomorrow morning
22:33.35__monty__I do find all this quite strange since I know I ran mged some time.
22:33.52``Erikyeh, I don't understand why it'd crash like that
22:34.01__monty__Morning gmt? I'm in the CET zone.
22:34.15``Erikdaytime GMT-5, morning GMT
22:34.33``Erikmost of the developers are on the US
22:35.09``Erikin ~15-20 hours?
22:35.38``Erikstarseeker keeps normal hours, brlcad is all over the map *shrug* lurk and read backlog :)
22:35.46``Erikit'll get figured out eventually
22:36.26__monty__Ok that's CET - 6, morning is ~8-10 o' clock so that's from 14-16, I'll try catching them.
22:36.41__monty__Good night to you sir.
22:37.15``Erikwe all read backlog, so just leave your irc client attached and catch up *shrug* :) catch ya later, dude
22:37.54__monty__Can't, running on a laptop, have to shut down.
22:38.15``Erikok, hopefully we'll have a solution for you when you're back next :)
22:38.37__monty__Thanks for all the help by the way.
22:40.29__monty__left the building.
23:03.42*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14AA5E.dip.t-dialin.net)
23:10.09brlcadNohla: cool, so you're done with one of the exercises?
23:10.16brlcadcan you upload it somewhere?
23:11.05Nohlai have starseeker parsonal email, maybe there?
23:11.17Nohlabut ive done just one review
23:11.58Nohlanobody else can read it right now
23:12.19Nohlaand i cant correct myself
23:12.36brlcadideally, can you upload it here:  https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=105292&atid=640804
23:13.08brlcadif you upload it there as an attachment, then we can all get to it
23:13.38Nohlaok
23:13.57Nohlalet me see if i can convince another friend to correct it
23:14.26brlcadokay
23:14.51brlcadwhen you upload it as an attachment, you can continue to upload improved versions too
23:14.56brlcaddoesn't have to be final
23:16.19brlcadhmm.. __monty__'s backtrace is a bit dated
23:17.07brlcadcan't be a BU_GETSTRUCT failure.. that'd be a bomb
23:17.35brlcadnot a bad access
23:20.58brlcadah yes, so 376 for the .2 release was:
23:21.21brlcaddmp->dm_width = DisplayWidth(pubvars->dpy, DefaultScreen(pubvars->dpy)) - 30;
23:23.00brlcadso dmp or pubvars are nfg
23:24.16brlcad~botmail for __monty__: if you still have that gdb session, try running "p dmp" and "p pubvars" after it stops at dm-X.c:376
23:38.57CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36818 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-X.c:
23:38.57CIA-41BRL-CAD: make X11 function calls instead of using the macros so that we can hopefully get
23:38.57CIA-41BRL-CAD: some better data validation and stack trace information if/when something goes
23:38.57CIA-41BRL-CAD: horribly wrong. crash reported while getting DisplayWidth of the default
23:38.57CIA-41BRL-CAD: screen.
23:45.27CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36819 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/ (dm-ogl.c dm-rtgl.c): make the two other X windowing interfaces match dm-X, using X11 funcs instead of macros for better debugging, seeing if we encounter a negative screen number.
23:46.37brlcad~botmail for __monty__: I made some minor changes that should help debugging, test appreciated for you to checkout latest svn (not the tarball) and then try getting the crash backtrace again in gdb
23:47.39*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091207

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091207

00:03.48CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36820 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob added a new 'data_axes' command to archer
00:38.49*** join/#brlcad jesica__ (n=jesica@201.255.230.172)
00:39.55jesica__brlcad, ill put it in wiki
00:40.12jesica__the mail from forgesuorce is late :P
00:40.43jesica__and i have the second review done
01:30.51CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36821 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libgcv/region_end.c: Initialize NMG_debug_state.
01:32.54jesica__what time is it there?
01:39.38``Erikhere? 22:40
01:39.48``Erikno, 20:40, sorry
01:39.50``Erik8:40pm
01:56.53jesica__im still waiting for my subscription
01:57.13jesica__a friend will send it by sourceforge with his name
02:13.00jesica__there will be problem with the accent?
02:13.57``Eriksubscription? accent? whu?
02:15.57jesica__do you thing wont be a problem if i write acción in spyte of accion
02:18.04``ErikI dunno who accion is, but you can spit on hi without bugging us, yes
02:25.10jesica__what?? jajaja
02:25.32``ErikO:-)
02:25.53jesica__what "spit on hi" means?
02:26.44``Erikspit, sypte, something
02:27.37jesica__i know what spit means, but i can understand the sentence
02:31.55``Eriktypo, s/hi/him/
02:32.54jesica__okas
02:33.17jesica__now, who is him? :)
02:33.37jesica__acción means action
02:33.43jesica__in spanish
02:33.52jesica__and it have '
02:34.03``Erikheh, okie, typos + mistranslation, wee
02:34.11jesica__i thought that maybe that can be trouble
02:34.21jesica__troubling?
02:34.40``Erikat the moment, the only trouble around is cat..
02:35.03jesica__jajjaja
02:35.11``Erikmy poor punctured leg :(
02:35.14jesica__starseeker, where are you!!!
02:35.25``Erikgato es loco?
02:35.26jesica__i can understand everything you say!!
02:35.29``Erikor somethin?
02:35.45jesica__cat means gato
02:35.56jesica__crazy or insane is loco
02:36.01``Erikyes, my cats are crazy
02:48.48jesica__mmm how to cook cat in 20 minutes
02:49.02jesica__in Argentina we eat cats
02:50.26``Eriknice, I have probably done the smae when I went to korea, but it tends to horrify americans
02:50.39jesica__jajajjaa
02:50.58jesica__im just kidding
02:51.15``Erik:) I'm not.
02:51.46``ErikI have probably eaten both cat and dog in my travels
02:52.09jesica__http://iweb.dl.sourceforge.net/project/brlcad-es/mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.xml
02:52.20jesica__``Erik, jajajjaa
02:52.52jesica__starseeker, brlcad complete the first
02:57.51jesica__i was thinking that maybe im too unpolite because the irc causes i dont prejudge people
02:58.03jesica__sorry if im too informal
02:58.51``ErikI doubt you'll upset folk, more an issue of people being afk...
03:00.09jesica__``Erik, is funny not understans you :) afk?
03:00.39``Erikaway from keyboard
03:01.13jesica__well, good night people
03:01.34*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=matthew@69-196-189-208.dsl.teksavvy.com)
03:01.35*** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (n=Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1)
03:01.57``Erikcatch yo later, jesica
03:04.12``Erikodd watching curry NOT fake an accent
03:11.50jesica__``Erik, how can i see this file as its seen for the user?
03:12.02jesica__(maybe im not too clear)
03:12.17jesica__like pdf i say
03:22.18starseekerjesica__: what, is ``Erik being annoying again?
03:25.04starseekerjesica__: downloaded the file, thank you :-)
03:25.23jesica__i found only one detail to correct
03:25.47jesica__i ate a letter somewhere
03:27.13jesica__sometimes i think erik is an adult nd sometimes that is a teenager?
03:27.20starseekerhe's an adult
03:27.30starseekerhard to believe I know, but he's older than I am
03:27.43jesica__a very one? :)
03:27.58starseekerhmm?
03:28.56jesica__tell me, how old are you? if you want
03:29.26jesica__just to make a mental image and write correctly
03:29.38starseekeroh - I'm under 30, he's over 30 :-)
03:30.24jesica__so, should i be more formal writing here?
03:30.31starseekernah
03:30.38starseekeras you've noticed, we're informal
03:31.13jesica__I do not want to disrespect anyone
03:31.31starseekerno problem :-)
03:32.01starseekerI'm trying to produce an html version of your document for you, but it's got a syntax bug
03:32.15starseekerand I seem to have misplaced my emacs nxml extension
03:34.02jesica__starseeker, i should learn to do that but not today :P
03:34.21jesica__are you using emacs for that?
03:34.32starseekeryes
03:35.30jesica__mmm iwould like to use it, but ive never done something different to edit with vim simple texts
03:44.14starseekerjesica__: http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.pdf
03:44.32starseekerignore the images - I just need to size them correctly
03:45.48starseekerjesica__: http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.html
03:45.50jesica__eeeaaaa excellent
03:46.17starseekerI will work on making our documentation building system language aware
03:47.00starseekermakes a note to update the doggone screenshots... mged 5.0, eeek
03:47.15starseekeralrightie, late here - nice work jesica__ !
03:47.24starseekerthank you very much
03:47.41jesica__starseeker, im going to sleep
03:47.48jesica__i saw another error
03:48.15jesica__let me read it again tomorrow and change it on sourceforge
03:48.28starseekerjesica__: is the person who asked for the translation also able to see and review?
03:48.51starseekersounds good!
03:49.08jesica__i guess
03:49.43jesica__two different people read again, but two words are wrong
03:49.53starseekerno big deal, it happens
03:50.09starseekersometimes best test for documentation is to have someone try following it
03:50.11jesica__let me change it and make a last review tomorrow
03:50.17starseekerOK
03:51.08jesica__sorry
03:51.15starseekerno, no problem
03:51.23starseekerI have some work to do on the build system myself
03:52.36jesica__good night people, this time its true :)
03:53.33jesica__starseeker, thank for the companion in my work
03:53.59starseekerglad to help
04:35.05*** join/#brlcad talcite_ (n=matthew@69-165-156-198.dsl.teksavvy.com)
09:50.24*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14AED2.dip.t-dialin.net)
10:14.56brlcadhttp://stuffthingsandjunk.blogspot.com/2009/12/stl-to-igs-iges-conversion.html
10:15.34brlcadwe should look into why iges export without -m wasn't working right
10:15.48brlcadotherwise, cool
11:20.57CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36822 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-X.c: Fixed typo.
12:00.36brlcadoops
12:00.48brlcadC-x 4 f
12:00.48brlcad:)
12:01.13indianla1ryi do it all the time ...
12:14.15``Erikdang emacs weenies
12:33.33brlcadcan't find the damn .vc TLD authority
13:58.12*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ)
14:52.41brlcadhowdy d_rossberg
14:52.57brlcadguten morgen
15:11.46d_rossberggood morning brlcad
15:55.24*** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@69.172.97.211)
15:55.37dli7.16.2 build error: http://pastebin.ca/1705653
16:08.36d_rossberglooks like it should be HIDDEN in cut.c, line 67
16:09.19dlid_rossberg, is this a compiler problem, or indeed a bug in source code
16:09.47d_rossbergi think it is a bug in the source code
16:10.46dlid_rossberg, any idea how to fix this?
16:10.51d_rossbergwhich only arises in a release build
16:11.10d_rossbergyes, see my first message
16:11.33dlid_rossberg, I don't understand :(
16:12.08d_rossbergedit src/librt/cut.c
16:12.40d_rossbergput HIDDEN in front of line 67 and save the file
16:13.25d_rossberg(look at the surrounding lines)
16:14.06dlid_rossberg, yes, it's building now
16:14.39dlid_rossberg, thanks, let me restart the building process again
16:19.14CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r36823 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/cut.c:
16:19.14CIA-41BRL-CAD: consistent HIDDEN declaration for rt_plot_cut
16:19.14CIA-41BRL-CAD: otherwise the release build my fail
16:34.00*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@249.Red-88-11-185.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
16:50.37dliis this a typo within 7.16.2 source: http://pastebin.ca/1705706
17:00.10*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14AED2.dip.t-dialin.net)
17:03.15d_rossbergdli: good question, i don't know much about bwish but it looks like another bug
17:03.42d_rossbergbwish has build on my system, however i don't know how an why
17:06.08dlid_rossberg, thanks
17:10.02*** join/#brlcad mafm_ (n=mafm@249.Red-88-11-185.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
19:29.47*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
19:29.47*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || #brlcad logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || Release 7.16.2 posted (20091106) .. full binary release!
20:10.12starseekerbrlcad: what was the specific error you sometimes got on parallel make of the docbook?
20:10.25CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2050 10/wiki/BoT: add some initial notes about bot mode types and what they mean
20:12.28brlcadruntime error
20:12.29brlcadruntime xsltApplyStylesheet: saving to lessons/en/mged11_refining_mug.html may not be possible
20:12.55brlcadfor a variety of random files, depends which get there  first
20:13.11brlcadthen then first one reports an Error 9 afterwards (and didn't write out the html file)
20:16.37starseekerlooks like xsltCheckWrite fails in libxslt
20:19.17starseekerbrlcad: thanks for the BoT writeup
20:19.45brlcadsorry to anyone that gets it multiple times, wasn't sure who all is on users
20:19.52brlcad(everyone "should" be...)
20:22.01starseekerbrlcad: any idea what "stereo" mode is in the dm_ogl display manager or how to trigger it?
20:22.23starseekerlot of very ugly looking hard coded values being used just for that little bit...
20:23.23brlcadthere's a render mode that will generate stereographic images (left/right eye images)
20:23.30brlcadfor 3d displays
20:23.43starseekerum
20:23.46brlcadwe do red-blue shift iirc
20:23.53starseekerhad anyone ever used it?
20:23.53brlcadsee the rt lighting modes iirc
20:23.56brlcadyep
20:24.00starseekernuts
20:24.12brlcaddunno why rtgl would need it
20:24.15brlcadprobably just copied
20:24.19starseekerit's in dm-ogl
20:24.34starseekerdidn't like all the ugly const defs
20:24.37brlcadI'd expect to see it in X/ogl
20:25.45brlcaddon't recall how to get to it for the dm, but "usually" stereo mode just draws the same content twice with a slight shift for left/right eyes
20:26.02brlcadput on the glasses and you get the effect
20:26.30brlcadnot too terribly uncommon as funky as it sounds, even bzflag has a stereo render mode
20:27.26brlcadi'm not sure http://pastebin.ca/1705706 is right...
20:27.43brlcadthere is a history_record() in src/mged/history.c
20:29.52brlcadundoubtedly some symbol problem with the one in libbu for production compiles, though
20:31.26brlcaddli: that was for you :)
20:31.54starseekermakes a note to read up on stereo rending to figure out how to do it less hackishly
20:32.28brlcaddli: ah, never mind.. i see your patch was in bwish, not mged
20:33.58CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36824 10/brlcad/trunk/src/bwish/cmd.c: this shouldn't compile for production builds.. history_record is a libbu HIDDEN function. thx for noting this dli.
20:35.58CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36825 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/cmdhist.c: _bu_ prefix the HIDDEN funcs
20:44.47*** join/#brlcad brlcad (n=sean@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ)
20:44.47*** join/#brlcad indianla1ry (n=indianla@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
20:44.47*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by irc.freenode.net
21:05.23CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36826 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: make sure XSLTPROC and APACHEFOP are set to : consistently in case they are not detected so we don't end up with a build failure, move the block outside the if test.
21:25.57starseekerreads the tgc shot routine and goes a bit crosseyed
21:26.39CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36827 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: credit dli aka dongxu_li for his work on getting brl-cad's ebuild in order for gentoo/portage. made (minor) code contributions in december 2009 recently but first started working on the ebuild in april 2009.
21:39.07starseekernow that's interesting
21:39.39starseekernirt reports an overlap los of 1 with a metaball and arb8 overlap but still reports the metaball LOS as 0
21:41.18*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@d142-058-081-053.wireless.sfu.ca)
21:45.50starseeker``Erik: your metaballs code is impressive in a "black magic how on earth does this work" kinda way :-P
22:02.48brlcadheh
22:12.28CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2051 10/wiki/BoT: add a section on BoT advantages over STL, reorder and format tweaking too
22:30.22*** join/#brlcad Ralith_ (n=ralith@d142-058-084-110.wireless.sfu.ca)
22:53.09CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36828 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/backtrace.c: clever compiler, quell warning about unreachable code due to exit() terminations. probably fixed an itsy bitsy memory leak in the process. mark the static funcs HIDDEN.
22:55.02*** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@84-72-11-1.dclient.hispeed.ch)
22:55.52CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36829 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (backtrace.c bitv.c): ws indent style cleanup
23:43.49*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.48.97)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091208

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091208

00:57.31*** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (n=Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1)
01:25.49*** join/#brlcad jesica__ (n=jesica@201.255.230.172)
01:39.32brlcadjesica__: nice work on the translation
01:39.33brlcadse ve bien
01:40.24jesica__brlcad, im doing the lastest correction
01:40.38jesica__definitly the last, i swear
01:41.10jesica__there are various thing i note in pdf
01:42.36jesica__there are two things i cant change
01:43.00jesica__the advertise <caution> and <note> :(
01:47.33brlcadthe english can be changed too :)
01:49.21brlcadoh and when I mentioned submitting a patch, I didn't mean an entire new sourceforge project :)
01:52.23jesica__i didnt do that, my subcription is still on process :P
01:52.46brlcadthere's no subscription required....
01:52.49jesica__a friend have done it for me
01:53.01brlcadyou just create an account, submit the patch
01:53.23jesica__well, the account in sourgeforce ned confirmation
01:53.31jesica__ned/need
01:53.45brlcadah, and that takes time? :)
01:53.54brlcadshould have sent an instant confirmation
01:55.29mafmbrlcad: the Google IO 2009 video is a bit... below par :P
01:55.57brlcadmafm: which video??
01:56.05jesica__brlcad, ive tried to do it again but said that i was registered
01:56.07mafmat least the one from Mr Linus was more... fun
01:56.23mafmbrlcad: the video about "the myth of the genius programmer" that you posted to the ml a while ago
01:56.25jesica__but when entrying, it said i need confirmation
01:56.29jesica__:(
01:59.50brlcadmafm: not sure what you mean by "below par", wasn't meant to be earth shattering, more just lots of interesting points
02:00.02brlcadparticularly with regards to egos and hidden development practices
02:03.02mafmI actually expected to give more examples, or actual examples
02:03.21brlcad*shrug*
02:03.25brlcadexpectations amiss ;)
02:03.27mafmin the "sweet spot" thing about when to involve ppl, there are no examples at all :)
02:03.56mafmjust like... "don't get ppl involved too early, also not too late!"
02:04.33brlcadjesica__: what's your username?
02:04.41mafmthe topic looked very promising for me, though
02:05.05jesica__mmm i forgot jajaja
02:05.16mafmI guess that you were trying to make the same point, directed at some devels :P
02:05.29jesica__but it should be giudicejesica
02:05.48brlcadthere's not a formula you apply, more a set of guidelines to consider and apply, case by case basis
02:07.30brlcadjesica__: sent you a test message
02:08.20brlcadjesica__: https://sourceforge.net/account/registration/recover.php
02:08.39brlcadescoje email recovery
02:08.58brlcadponga tu email
02:09.49brlcadif that doesn't work, you either have a spam filter that thought the account registration was spam or you had a typo in you email address when you registered
02:10.06mafmelige, pon :)
02:10.31jesica__brlcad, so i can change <note> by <nota> without a trouble?
02:10.54brlcadjesica__: no, everything within <> should not be translated, they're tags
02:11.22brlcadlike html, <html><head></head>...  you don't translate those, only what is between them
02:12.02brlcadahh, is it writing "Note:" in the output somewhere?
02:12.17brlcadif so, that's not something in the xml file .. we can fix that
02:14.29jesica__mmm, so i leave it and you fix it?
02:14.37brlcadyeah
02:15.13brlcada "note" to starseeker to do something about that when he integrates your change ;)
02:15.27brlcadneeds a .es stylesheet customization
02:15.48brlcador better yet, get the english one out
02:16.11brlcador gettext the stylesheet if it's more pervasive
02:17.13brlcadjesica__: https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sourceforge/wiki/Support
02:17.50brlcadmaybe tomorrow you can get ahold of someone on irc, to tell them your account registration e-mail never arrived
02:17.52jesica__brlcad, the firs image is too large, you should fix that too
02:18.18brlcadjesica__: definitely :)
02:18.54brlcadjesica__: so if you're going to be doing more translations, we can get you set up with svn as soon as you have a sourceforge account :)
02:19.56jesica__in one line, say that both DELETE and BACKSPACE erase the character on the lefth, thats true?
02:21.12brlcadyes
02:21.21CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36830 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/lessons/es/: initial stub for the spanish translations that jesica has been working on
02:22.54jesica__and just one thing before to finish
02:23.17brlcadit's never really finished :)
02:23.18jesica__rename a sphere, f.e., is to create one
02:23.42starseekerbrlcad: not really sure how to do language specific stylesheets
02:23.52starseekerwill have to look into it when my headache goes away
02:23.56brlcadstarseeker: we really shouldn't
02:24.01brlcadideally should be language agnostic
02:24.30brlcadif we have to, can let gettext do the substitutions on the fly
02:26.20jesica__mmm, ive done silly thing on mi laptop :P, could you send me the link to download the source code again?
02:26.30starseekeroh:  http://oreilly.com/catalog/docbook/chapter/book/ch04.html#AEN5446
02:26.31brlcad~cadsvn
02:26.32ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
02:26.51starseekerjesica__: you can install subversion?
02:27.22brlcadstarseeker: ah, nice find.. there ya go
02:27.24starseekerwe need a "language driver"
02:27.42starseekeryay, one more thing to mess up the docbook build with ;-)
02:28.29starseekerwill need to generate the driver file from a .in file
02:28.54starseekerdoggone it, hate to mess with that level of docbook but I guess no choice
02:29.02starseekerwould probably have had to anyhow...
02:29.46brlcadthe stylesheets needed to be ripped a new one regardless
02:30.03starseekerheh - not liking the defaults, eh?
02:30.29brlcadnoep
02:30.43jesica__"To recall the sphere, type the command on the Command Line as follows:"
02:30.43starseekerremembers all the fun in the firebird docs.. time to look at that again, I guess
02:31.08jesica__draw == recall?
02:31.32starseekerer - redraw probably
02:31.35brlcadbasically, yes
02:31.37brlcadto draw it again
02:31.44brlcadto draw the sphere again, ...
02:31.47jesica__oh ok
02:31.49jesica__thanks
02:33.47starseekerbrlcad: the other major problem I am aware of with translations is if we make the file list variable based on $LANG or some such, won't the build crap out if the es or whatever directories don't have all the xml files the en directories do?
02:33.49jesica__brlcad, now your are wrong, it finally finished
02:34.02brlcadwhat finished?
02:34.09starseekertranslating I think :-)
02:34.13brlcadoh YOU are finished.. heh
02:34.15jesica__starseeker, yes
02:34.19brlcadthe document itself is never finished :)
02:34.20jesica__jajjaja
02:34.23brlcadjej
02:34.33jesica__yes, since yesterday
02:34.57brlcadeven the english isn't "finished".. it's just where it is now
02:37.44brlcadstarseeker: absolutely, once you add in l10n it really needs a driver
02:38.10brlcadyou need more complex logic to build the docs
02:38.10starseekerum - driver?
02:38.12brlcada script
02:38.19brlcador program
02:38.26starseekernnnooooooo.... (trails off pathetically)
02:38.28brlcadsomething where you can embed the logic it needs
02:38.56brlcadcould still keep it simple and continue to itemize
02:39.12starseekerno, we need scalable
02:39.29brlcadseparate Makefile.am into a Makefile.en and Makefile.es .. include them in the Makefile.am
02:39.41starseekerI just can't believe we finally got a nice (almost) working parallel docbook build using automake and now we get to blow it to hell
02:40.02brlcadthat way you could even keep the Makefiles down with the XML files, and recursively include them up
02:40.35starseekerwell... maybe
02:40.52brlcadso the es build file would only be as complex as the quantity of files that have been converted
02:41.21starseekercan includes be conditionalized?
02:41.43starseekeror I suppose it doesn't matter if they live inthe files
02:42.50brlcadi believe so, but shouldn't matter
02:43.59starseekeroh, while I'm thinking about it - I have a hunch that parallel build failure is in some way shape or form the falt of xsltproc
02:47.42starseekerunfortunately, the alternatives all seem to be java based
03:02.20starseekeremails xslt list
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13:45.17brlcadhttp://www.junauza.com/2009/12/free-and-open-source-cad-software-for.html
13:49.02alex_jonianother nice (although really young one) is HeeksCad (also OpenCascade based)
13:49.12alex_jonihttp://code.google.com/p/heekscad/
14:31.13``Erikwait, what? O.o damn, I musta been confused
14:51.16``Erikthat whole voodoo needs to be redone :/
14:52.05brlcadthe metavoodoo?
14:52.26``Erikheh, yeah, walking meatball voodoo
14:52.59``Erikthe find intersection function will be core to the next ... implementation
14:53.25``Erikwill probably cost performance, but *shrug*
15:04.13starseekerbrlcad: FreeCAD looks great, but I have yet to successfully compile it even on gentoo
15:04.39starseekerheh - nifty, they used my dxf probe model screenshot
15:06.11starseekervarkon I've got working but haven't put the time into actually figuring out - it's GPL so we can't use it anyhow...
15:08.00starseekerthat's easily one of the niftier varkon screenshots I've seen
15:09.38starseekerone interesting thing about varkon is they apparently do parametric stuff
15:12.43brlcadhates paperwork
15:13.19brlcadthinks it's funny they used the tux render
15:13.30brlcadbut we did get top billing, good times ;)
15:14.12starseekeryes, that's interesting - particularly since FreeCAD is kicking our butts in the "modern CAD GUI with drawing generation and stuff..." department
15:14.37starseekersuggests an intelligent reviewer :-)
15:14.46brlcadthey lack most of the nuts and bolts, actual usefulness
15:15.01brlcadbut yeah, gui is not too shabby
15:15.09brlcadwouldn't take much to one-up them though
15:15.14starseekerhehe
15:16.13starseekerif they're for real about that STEP part to svg drawing extraction, that's not too shabby
15:16.40brlcadopencascade does that for them
15:16.46starseekerah
15:17.33starseekerwonders if a step export capabilitiy would let us get some good out of opencascade...
15:17.39``Erik'larrabee is dead' http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2356725,00.asp
15:18.08brlcadthere was a /. earlier in the week
15:18.17brlcad"dead for consumer, but not as a dev platform"
15:18.20brlcadsomething to that effect
15:20.15starseekersnorts in bemusement - they must be rather red faced after all that promotion this summer
15:21.27starseekerhopes freecad does well - good for open source if they can expose opencascade's abilities in a usable interface
15:24.42brlcadhopes freecad does well, despite using opencascade
15:25.45brlcadopencascade isn't a healthy project to utilizing, particularly for collaboration
15:26.10starseekerdo they still have that funny license?
15:26.29brlcadas our Geometry Engine API comes to fruition, hopefully projects will have more options for CAD frameworks to build upon
15:27.41starseekernods
15:28.57starseeker3d shaded displays, parametric modeling, and the whole drawings thing...  guess I'd better get busy :-P
15:29.54brlcadand that's just noting the features that we don't support
15:30.08brlcadwe actually do a lot more than opencascade
15:30.12brlcadjust not in a clean API
15:30.34starseekernods
15:31.10brlcadwe really need major refactoring to leverage and better present what we have too
15:31.10brlcadget the core libs cleaned up as stand-alone projects
15:31.10brlcadget the converts into a library of their own
15:31.10starseekeryep - I was surprised to hear the framebuffer stuff supported imagemagick style maniulations
15:31.10brlcadsame for the data processing tools
15:31.22starseekerand I work on this sucker full time :-P
15:31.23brlcadget that all wrapped up into one unified API
15:32.54brlcadyeah, the fb stuff is kind of funny .. you could almost implement a mini photoshop/gimp clone if you put all our tools into one gui .. and have it be fully scriptable via commands
15:33.18brlcadgranted, maybe "photoshop 3", but not too shabby for something entirely not our focus, just core needs
15:33.51brlcadthe image processing stuff isn't as interesting, though, as our geometry conversion capability and data/signal processing tools
15:34.05brlcadimage processing has come a long way since then
15:35.09starseekeroh, speaking of conversion - do you know of a good list of "object types in cad formats" anywhere?  sort of a "dxf supports..., 3dm supports..." sorta comparison?
15:35.27brlcadheck, if we had a solid geometry conversion capability alone, that would kick up our community usage substantially (everyone needs geometry)
15:35.47brlcadno, not really
15:35.58starseekershucks
15:36.01brlcadwould make a nice chart
15:36.07brlcadfeatures list
15:36.12starseekerwas thinking about making one
15:36.16starseekerfor converter status
15:36.35brlcadi've seen some informal one on a site somewhere a long while back
15:36.42starseekersorta a way to represent "yes we do obj, but not NURBS - please add that"
15:37.06starseekeror "we do 3dm nurbs, but not meshes"
15:37.39starseekersupposes he could just grab all the object types in step and assume that would conver everything...
15:38.50starseekeralso, such a list would be helpful for "pivoting" between formats
15:39.08brlcadnice lil start, http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/guide/3DGeometryAndModelingFormats.html
15:41.17starseekerreflects he could always go the mathematical categorization route, has the advantage of being format agnostic
15:42.13brlcadyeah, there are various "features" encompassed by a given format, and it's capabilities
15:42.18brlcadnumeric capabilities
15:42.21brlcadgeometric
15:42.32brlcadrepresentation types
15:43.14brlcadcategorizations (object counts, groupings, layerings, hierarchies)
15:43.43brlcadconnectivity and associations
15:43.55brlcadconstruction history, revisions
15:44.15starseekeryeah, the more I think about it that's the way to go - the internal  libgcv representation shouldn't be any particular CAD file format (even .g) since that would by definition limit what the conversion routines could handle to what the format could handle
15:44.36brlcadparametric support, annotations, non-geometric entities, animation entities, kinematic controls, ...
15:45.54brlcadthat's nice to say, but probably not practical -- depends where/how you draw the line
15:46.07starseekersure
15:46.12brlcadsomething has to process the data, and in libgcv's case, that'd be libgcv and librt
15:46.46brlcadand if librt is processing the data, it's basically .g, but just in an in-memory form
15:47.03starseekerdunno - I'd have to think about it some
15:47.32brlcadthere's only one format I know of that was designed to try and capture anything/everything, that being STEP
15:47.43brlcadit's basically union of all CAD formats
15:47.54brlcadeven where it makes no sense whatsoever
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15:48.42brlcadour format is the next closest, though only "supporting" unsupported features through opaque binary storage
15:48.58starseekerwhich isn't very helpful for conversion
15:49.03brlcadSTEPs not exactly an in-memory format either
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15:49.43brlcadit can be, but pita to use that way
15:49.54starseekernods
15:50.27brlcadstructurally, we're one of the most flexible by far, given we started on the CSG side of the spectrum with implicits
15:51.25brlcadtry stashing a hyperboloid of one sheet in implicit form into STEP  (maybe possible, but I'm sure we have a few that aren't)
15:52.00brlcada table would be interesting
15:52.10starseekerBut I was under the impression that you didn't want to have support for non-3d objects in BRL-CAD except as subsets of sketch, which would seem rather convoluted from the standpoint of conversion (most systems seem to be fine with storing loose curves, for example)
15:52.24brlcadit's be a freaking huge table, hundreds of features to consider
15:52.34starseekeryep
15:53.00starseekeraccurate representation of the complexity of the task though
15:54.03brlcadthat's not been an intentional impression -- annotations are non-3d, image objects, material objects, shader objects, wireframe objects..
15:55.00brlcadthat said
15:55.05brlcadI don't believe we should focus on our weakest points
15:55.22brlcadour focus is solid modeling
15:55.40brlcadthe other entity types would be fine to have, but we have very limited resources
15:56.05brlcadrather do what we do very well than do a lot half-assed
15:56.36starseekersure - I'm not saying we focus on doing anything with them, just know enough about them to convert them in the libraries so other apps will be inclined to use our converters
15:56.41``Erik"BRL-CAD - the whole ass."
15:56.45starseeker(and enhance them)
15:56.49brlcad``Erik: :)
15:58.07brlcadi'd have no problem with basic I/O support so things are preserved.. never been an issue
15:58.16brlcadjust a matter of how
15:58.24brlcadand what
16:00.04brlcadespecially for things that can be generalized in a useful manner, and seamlessly integrated, not as one-offs
16:00.27starseekerright
16:01.40starseekerI just think it deserves some careful planning and thought up front, so the converters can expand as needed to encompass what needs to be encompassed to successfully perform high quality geometry conversions
16:02.10starseekerif that needs .g changes rel8 seems the logical time :-)
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16:05.29starseekerhey jesica__ :-)
16:05.40jesica__good morning :P
16:06.52jesica__today is holiday! excellent!
16:14.07CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36831 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: Collapse duplicate functionality. Allow multiple regions in the local load callback. Use librt's timing routines.
16:22.00CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36832 10/isst/trunk/src/ (gui.c net_worker.c): move load_frame_attribute() into net_worker.c
16:29.09CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36833 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: default to PNG and flip image for screeshot.
16:29.48jesica__starseeker, have you ever drink mate?
16:35.20starseekerjesica__: uh, what?
16:37.11jesica__mate is a warm drink like the coffe, but itve a special procedure to prepare
16:39.04starseekerah, no I get my caffine from soda
16:40.25brlcadstarseeker: sure, but that is also exactly the balance that has to be struck.. the "careful planning and thought up front" all take valuable time and energy from other potential tasks, so also have to be careful to not overinvest effort for something that isn't a strong suit
16:40.45brlcadgetting our existing converters cleaned up and turned into an API for *exactly* what they do now, would be a huge win
16:41.12brlcadand that's a crapload of work in itself
16:41.36brlcadjesica__: happy holiday! :)
16:41.46jesica__idem :)
16:42.47jesica__im trying to convert the xml to pdf by myself
16:42.55jesica__starseeker, its not so easy
16:43.12brlcadjesica__: did you get an svn checkout?
16:43.24jesica__and i can drive emacs, god! i cant even read it wel
16:43.31jesica__mmm no
16:43.44brlcaddo you have svn installed?
16:43.55jesica__mmm no
16:44.07brlcadheh, can you install it? :)
16:44.35jesica__i think so
16:45.54brlcadif you install it, you can get a copy of the sources that will stay synchronized with the rest of us
16:46.28jesica__something similar to starseeker send me yesterday?
16:48.47jesica__well, the thing is that starseeker told me some days ago that he`ve done the conversion with emacs and i thougt it is a good oportunity to learn to use emacs
16:50.46jesica__I have limited knowledge in regard to computing in general, but im trying to change that it the tidiest way :)
16:51.52jesica__learning separate things without an order, so then unit them all togheter and see what happen between them
16:52.19jesica__rarest things can happen, i swear
16:52.54brlcadlearn
16:52.59brlcader, sorry
16:53.06CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36834 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/lessons/es/mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.xml: an initial revision of the spanish translation work being done by Jesica Giudice (with some support from Federico Calvo)
16:53.06brlcadlearning emacs is a great thing :)
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16:54.38brlcadthis was very helpful for me when I was learning: http://brlcad.org/~sean/emacs_22_reference_card.pdf
16:55.06brlcadlo siento que no lo tengo en espa?ol
16:56.04jesica__shoul i translate this too, jajja
16:56.04jesica__wow, such a large cheatsheet!
16:57.03CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36835 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/Makefile.am: add the .es lesson to the dist
17:04.06jesica__i saw emacs uses a particularly nerd? way to explain its function
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17:08.53jesica__brlcad, somebody told my that it uses to delay :P
17:08.53jesica__oh no, more irc on english!!!
17:08.56brlcadthey're good people, easy to talk to
17:08.57brlcadit's not that much of a delay
17:08.57brlcadnot for account creation
17:09.03brlcadcreating new projects has a delay
17:09.11brlcadthey are manually reviewed and approved
17:09.18brlcadbut not new accounts
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17:18.14CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36836 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: Credit Jesica Guidice for her work translating our documentation to Spanish. Met via irc channel, her first contribution was on Vol IIs tutorial lessons. Thanks!
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17:18.24brlcadjesica__: hopefully spelled your name right? :)
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17:19.02jesica__what did i now, ugh!
17:19.27brlcadnothing bad, I just credited you in our authorship file
17:23.44jesica__which parametres SF verifies to calculate the percentage of activity?
17:24.07brlcadwhich activity?
17:24.15jesica__yours is realy high
17:24.45jesica__the activity of the project
17:26.20brlcadtakes in download statistics, sourcecode commits, forum postings, webpage views, iirc
17:27.08jesica__aaaah irc :) jejjeje
17:27.11brlcadtracker mods too
17:27.16brlcadnot irc :)
17:27.29brlcadiirc == if i recall correctly
17:27.34brlcadse recuerdo bien
17:27.38brlcadsi*
17:27.56jesica__ops
17:29.28CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36837 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/doc/docbook/fop.xconf.in: Hmm, somehow fop.xconf.in didn't make it into STABLE.
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17:41.26mafmheh :)
17:41.37CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36838 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: use CLAMP from vmath
17:43.28jesica__starseeker, you used fop on emacs?
17:43.55jesica__i used it on vim, but not succefully
17:44.13starseekerfop is a command line tool
17:44.44starseekerjesica__: let me start from the beginning
17:44.48starseeker(one second)
17:45.00jesica__well, so fop do the job, not emacs!
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17:49.15starseekerthe process of converting from docbook to pdf:
17:49.27starseekeruse xsltproc to generate a .fo file
17:49.39starseekeruse fop to convert the fo file to a pdf file
17:50.14starseekerlook in doc/docbook
17:50.52starseekerwhat Operating System are you using?
17:52.22starseekerhere is what I did to convert your file to an html file:
17:52.36starseekermkdir doc/docbook/lessons/es
17:53.14starseekercp mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.xml doc/docbook/lessons/es/
17:53.52starseekercd doc/docbook/lessons/es
17:53.53jesica__OS: debian
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17:54.29starseekerok
17:54.49starseekeronce in doc/docbook/lessons/es with your file in that directory, run this command to create html:
17:56.02starseekerXML_CATALOG_FILES=../../catalog.xml /usr/bin/xsltproc -nonet -xinclude -o mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.html ../../resources/standard/xsl/xhtml-1_1/docbook.xsl mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.xml
17:56.08starseeker(one line)
17:57.56starseekerto create pdf file, first do this line:
17:57.57starseekerXML_CATALOG_FILES=../../catalog.xml /usr/bin/xsltproc -nonet -xinclude -o mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.fo ../../resources/standard/xsl/fo/docbook.xsl mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.xml
17:58.02starseekerthen do this one:
17:58.19starseekerfop mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.fo -pdf mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.pdf
17:58.23``Erik('cept xsltproc might not be in /usr/bin/, location should be set as a variable from configure)
17:58.38starseeker``Erik: I'm assuming she's doing it manually
17:58.51starseekerso yes, wherever xsltproc is on your system
17:59.25``Erikokie, figured that stuff'd go into a Makefile.am awfully soon :)
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18:01.18starseeker``Erik: will take a little time to get a feel for the LANG variables and such - also, need to have per-lang makefiles that are included at the top level
18:02.03starseekerjesica__: did that work for you?
18:02.53jesica__starseeker, wait a moment please, ill try in a few minutes
18:32.57CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36839 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (6 files in 6 dirs): Start splitting up and including Makefile components for docbook
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21:04.06CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36840 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/Makefile.am: Added ${GCV_LIBS} to librender, wasn't building on MAC 10.4 due to missing tcl dependencies.
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22:51.40jesica__starseeker, are you there?
23:03.39starseekeryes
23:03.47starseekerwhat's up?
23:04.07jesica__well, i just change my debian lenny for debian sid
23:04.18jesica__and installed xsltproc
23:04.25jesica__i was reading the man
23:04.41jesica__(i couldn do this with lenny :P)
23:06.00jesica__(ah, ive sent the file by brlcad-devel list)
23:08.22starseekerjesica__: excellent, thanks :-)
23:09.03starseekeris reading up on how to localize docbook output for various languages
23:10.44jesica__you showed me how to make the conversion from html, but my file is a xml
23:12.05jesica__mmm... no, i thing im confused
23:12.34starseekerI showed you how to do it from xml
23:12.39jesica__guide me if you can
23:12.46starseekerok
23:13.15starseekerfirst, did you check out the subversion copy of BRL-CAD?
23:13.30jesica__no
23:13.36starseekerok, do that first
23:13.42starseeker~cadsvn
23:13.43ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
23:20.34jesica__done
23:20.41starseekerok.
23:21.08starseekernow copy the latest copy of your xml file to doc/docbook/lessons/es/
23:23.16starseekerok?
23:24.50jesica__mmm no, svn check... bring me the hole source code? i didnt understand what it did
23:24.59starseekeryes
23:25.08starseekeryou have a brlcad directory?
23:25.23starseekerif so, do:
23:25.32starseekercd brlcad/
23:25.44starseekerls
23:25.51starseekeryou should see a doc directory
23:26.42jesica__yes :)
23:26.56starseekerok, now do cd doc/docbook/
23:27.04starseekeryou will see lessons directory
23:27.28starseekerthen cd lessons/es
23:27.33jesica__yes
23:27.45starseekerremove the xml document there and replace it with your current version of the file
23:27.50jesica__done
23:27.58starseekernow, do this:
23:28.11starseekerXML_CATALOG_FILES=../../catalog.xml /usr/bin/xsltproc -nonet -xinclude -o mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.html ../../resources/standard/xsl/xhtml-1_1/docbook.xsl mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.xml
23:28.38starseekerthat should generate an html file
23:28.44jesica__stand on the same directory? or that doesnt mather?
23:28.55starseekerin the same directory as the xml file
23:30.09jesica__done
23:30.20starseekerdid you get an html file?
23:30.30jesica__yes
23:30.39starseekerok, open it :-)
23:31.00jesica__ah?
23:31.20starseekerweb browser
23:31.20jesica__ah?
23:31.32starseekerfirefox mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.html
23:31.44``Erikthat html file is the end product
23:32.50jesica__starseeker, so now with fop i can convers it to pdf?
23:33.01starseekerok, for pdf do this:
23:33.15starseekerXML_CATALOG_FILES=../../catalog.xml /usr/bin/xsltproc -nonet -xinclude -o mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.fo ../../resources/standard/xsl/fo/docbook.xsl mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.xml
23:33.29starseekerthen, this:
23:33.37starseekerfop mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.fo -pdf mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.pdf
23:34.00jesica__to use fop i alwais have to give it a .fo?
23:34.12starseekerthat is how our build system works
23:34.13jesica__cant i jump this step?
23:34.18jesica__ok
23:34.37starseekerjust save those commands in a script if you want to re-run them a lot
23:34.44starseekerfor editing work, I recommend html output
23:35.16starseekeronce I update our build system to be multi-language, you will be able to use the build logic to do this for you
23:35.37starseeker(working on that now, will probably be a couple days)
23:35.58``Erikstarseeker: examined the fbsd version for generating the handbook?
23:36.19starseekerhmm? FreeBSD uses docbook too?
23:36.28``Erikdocbook/jade, yes
23:36.33starseekerhad looked at the firebird manual, not FreeBSD
23:37.03starseekerwe seem to be doing this much more "automake-ish" than most projects
23:37.06jesica__the images are not displayed :-/
23:37.10starseekerjesica__: that's OK
23:37.14jesica__in pdf
23:37.26jesica__you think? :)
23:37.40starseekerif you need them, we need to do this:
23:37.49starseekercd ../../
23:38.00starseeker(you should be in the doc/docbook directory)
23:38.13jesica__aha
23:38.15starseekerthen, run this command:
23:38.22jesica__aaah
23:38.44jesica__becouse the imagen are in that directory?
23:39.01starseekerXML_CATALOG_FILES=./catalog.xml /usr/bin/xsltproc -nonet -xinclude -o mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.fo ./resources/standard/xsl/fo/docbook.xsl mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.xml
23:39.13starseekeryes, the xml file links to the images
23:39.44starseekerthere is a very specific hierarchy to the docbook directories and the way images are linked - reasons are a bit complex
23:39.53starseekerdid you create new fo file?
23:40.14starseekeronce you have, do  again fop mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.fo -pdf mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.pdf
23:40.24starseekerthat pdf should have images
23:40.31jesica__ok
23:41.23starseekerjesica__: to do parallel make (many files at once) we controll all build logic from the doc/docbook directory
23:41.56starseekerjesica__: did that work?
23:41.59jesica__starseeker, you did this program?
23:42.04starseekermostly
23:42.09starseekerthe build logic anyway
23:42.18starseekerthe docbook tools are by others (many others)
23:42.47starseeker``Erik did the original source code build logic, I am just doing doc/docbook
23:44.34jesica__starseeker, maybe for that i only found information of this program in sourceforge and in a log of brlcad :)
23:45.25starseekerdocbook building is a bit specialized
23:46.50jesica__starseeker, thank for helping, its a great pleasure work with all you
23:48.12starseekerno problem - thanks for your work!
23:48.20starseekerwhat would you like to work on next?
23:48.22jesica__i feel confortable in this chanel and glad to do something usefull for your effort
23:48.51jesica__now? i began the second file
23:49.00starseekerexcellent :-)
23:49.15starseekerthe same commands will work, just change the file names
23:49.21``Erikdoesn't think he's touched the doc/ dir in over five years, don't blame him for that mess O.O :D *duck*
23:49.45jesica__starseeker, i understood enought to do it again correctly :)
23:52.12jesica__Ill do the following slower because I have to study for the test i didnt doyesterday :P
23:52.25starseekerno rush :-)
23:52.33jesica__but ill do it, i promise
23:54.19jesica__I'll use ' since now, despite not being so confortable
23:54.29starseeker``Erik: I'd argue it SHOWS that nobody had really touched the doc directory in a few years <snort>
23:54.45starseekerjesica__: take your time
23:59.12jesica__starseeker, the following error happened when fop runing
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23:59.29jesica__<PROTECTED>
23:59.41starseekerjesica__: that can be ignored, I see that for english docs too
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091209

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091209

00:00.00jesica__Line 1 of a paragraph overflows the available area. (fo:block, location
00:00.00starseekerfop is not perfect, but it's the only free tool for this job
00:00.11starseekerjesica__: does the pdf look OK?
00:01.10jesica__papparently
00:02.15jesica__apparently :P
00:02.19starseekerjesica__: you're fine then
00:02.26starseekerI see those errors too
00:02.57jesica__but what it means? maybe is better to chage it
00:03.07starseekerjesica__: I haven't checked into it yet
00:03.18starseekerjesica__: would have to read the fop documentation
00:03.32starseekerconfiguring fop is no picnic
00:03.41jesica__:)
00:04.33jesica__at least, I'didnt use emacs :(
00:05.16starseekeryou're doing find
00:05.17starseekerer fine
00:05.35starseekernxml + emacs is useful, but since you are translating it is not critical
00:05.40starseekermore important for new files
00:06.24jesica__there will be oportunity I guess
00:07.13starseekersure :-)
00:07.35starseekerright now though, more important to get sourceforge account and learn to use subversion
00:07.52starseekerdid you send an email to the sourceforge help system?
00:10.31jesica__mmm... no
00:10.35jesica__why
00:10.42starseekeryou still can't log in, correct?
00:10.52``Erikvim has an XML syntax package that might be useful
00:10.55jesica__no, I can now
00:11.07starseekeroh, excellent
00:11.19starseekerthen let's try something
00:11.22``Erikfolding, highlighting, matching, linting, ...
00:11.31starseekercd into your brlcad checkout
00:11.41starseekercd brlcad/doc/docbook/lessons/es
00:11.42jesica__but I'd create with my hotmail :P
00:11.48starseekerrun the command svn diff
00:12.04jesica__that bothers me
00:12.46starseekerdoes svn diff show anything?
00:13.26jesica__no
00:13.45jesica__that sounds fine?
00:14.07jesica__fine/good
00:15.44starseekerum - you copied your newest copy of the xml file to that directory?
00:16.18jesica__starseeker, ah?
00:16.29starseekerif not, do so and try again
00:16.39starseekershould replace the xml file already there
00:17.38jesica__replace?
00:21.03starseekerbrlcad uploaded a verion of your translation to that directory already
00:21.27starseekerunless you didn't make any changes, if you remove the old one and put your new one in svn diff should show those changes
00:21.51starseekerso:
00:22.02starseekercd brlcad/doc/docbook/lessons/es
00:22.21starseekerrm mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.xml
00:22.39starseekercopy in your latest mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.xml
00:22.43starseekerthen run svn diff
00:22.46jesica__starseeker, first, remember I've changed the name of the file
00:22.52jesica__it's in spanish
00:22.52starseekerto?
00:22.57starseekererm
00:22.58jesica__yes
00:23.00starseekeroh, OK
00:23.16starseekerdo do this:
00:23.26starseekersvn del mged01_creating_primitive_shapes.xml
00:23.34jesica__but it was which I've sent to brlcad-devel
00:23.42starseekersvn add *your_new_filename*
00:24.27starseekerthen try svn diff again
00:26.26jesica__starseeker, could you explain to me what that do? because I'll forget everything tomorrow if I can't understand
00:30.15jesica__I'm sick :P
00:30.33starseekerthe idea is for you to be able to upload your files and changes to them directly into the main source code tree
00:30.45starseekerto do this, you will need a working sourceforge account
00:30.58starseekerwhen brlcad comes back, he can enable your account to send changes to the tree
00:31.15starseekerthe svn commands I am showing you are steps in that process
00:31.30jesica__wow, that sounds good, but hard
00:31.49jesica__juantelez was right when said I'll learn a lot of thing with this
00:32.22starseekernot so hard, just a few commands to learn
00:32.35starseekeronce it is set up and you have done it a few times, it will be easy :-)
00:32.40jesica__but a lot of thing to understand
00:32.59starseekerwhen it is all new, it is a lot to understand :-)
00:33.04jesica__don't wanna copy withno understanding
00:35.00starseekerdon't worry - you will understand
00:35.17starseekersubversion (svn) manages our source code and documentation
00:35.40starseekerit retains history, so earlier versions can be viewed and changes between versions can be found
00:36.15starseekerwhen making changes, developers send changes to the central server (sourceforge) to be saved
00:36.49starseekerso when you did "svn checkout" you were asking subversion to send you a copy of the source code and documentation with all the latest changes
00:36.51jesica__the XML_CATAL.. comand call some binary of xsltproc and read destination file first and origin second?
00:37.14jesica__i ask myself why the comand is so large
00:37.33starseekerit is being supplied many arguments - paths to files not in its local directory
00:37.44starseekerthis is normally handled by our build system
00:37.59starseekeryou can just type "make" and get html and pdf output (pdf only when fop is installed)
00:38.16starseekerup until now, only english documentation was available
00:38.20starseekerso build system assumed this
00:38.26starseekernow that assumption is not true
00:38.33starseekerso I am making the system more flexible
00:38.50starseekeronce I am done, you will be able to tell the make process to build spanish documentation
00:39.00starseekerand you will just type "make" to get latest html/pdf
00:39.17starseekercommands are long still, but generated automatically
00:42.26jesica__...and reads destination file first and origin second?
00:50.18``Erikgrabs a serial line and heads back into the pit to fight the ARM thingie
00:51.02starseekeryes, although there is an additional argument between them
00:51.19starseekerrun man xsltproc to see details
00:58.33jesica__yes I see
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01:12.50jesica__starseeker, good night, thanks again
01:12.59starseekeryou're welcome!
01:47.13CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36841 10/brlcad/trunk/ (14 files in 9 dirs):
01:47.13CIA-41BRL-CAD: OK, this is very crude and has no awareness of posix locale stuff, but add the
01:47.13CIA-41BRL-CAD: ability to toggle doc building using --with-lang compile option. Currently,
01:47.13CIA-41BRL-CAD: only --with-lang=es will do anything, but it will switch off english doc
01:47.14CIA-41BRL-CAD: building and build whatever spanish docs are available (currently lesson one).
01:47.16CIA-41BRL-CAD: Needs much more work, but this will get it off the ground.
01:47.54starseekerphew
01:50.12louipcwhat if you just want to build everything?
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02:30.29*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || #brlcad logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || Release 7.16.2 posted (20091106) .. full binary release!
02:34.25``ErikO.O
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02:42.03``ErikFreeBSD  8.0-STABLE FreeBSD 8.0-STABLE #0: Sat Dec  5 08:24:01 EST 2009     erik@fenris:/usr/obj/arm/usr/src/sys/DB-88F6XXX  arm
02:47.59starseeker``Erik: you got it?
02:48.32starseekerlouipc: that's one of the reasons it's crude ;-)
02:48.57starseekera "lang=all" option could turn on everything, I just have to set that up
02:49.11starseekerI just tonight got it doing any sort of conditional anything
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03:01.03``Erikit's running, but via tftp/nfs... it's not liking the big honkin' usb disk very much and I haven't gotten around to making the bootloader understand ufs/ffs yet
03:01.50``Erikhad to fix a power supply to get the serial client working again to attach to the debug port O.o
03:09.08starseekerow
03:09.36starseekeris awed by the lengths you are willing to go to to attain minimal computing power ;-)
03:10.07starseeker(he says as he glances at his hard disk full of things like original CADR lisp machine schematics...)
03:11.18starseekergrrrr - why does it not like the src/other Makefile.am setups...
03:12.20``Erikgiven that you drive a civic, I find your awe at my selecting "adequate performance with superior efficiency" odd O.o :D *duck*
03:15.00``Erikthe only moving part in this beastie will be the hard drive O.o that's awesome right there
03:16.26``Eriklow power, tiny machine, nifty blue LED, unusual architecture... it's all awesome :D
03:28.17starseeker``Erik: you're a cad weenie.  There's no such thing as "adequate", there's only least inadquate :-P
03:28.25starseekerbut yes, I concede the awesomeness
03:28.43starseekerespecially when you hack it to have a solid state drive
03:31.00``Erikheh, still consider myself more of a systems weenie than a cad weenie... :)
03:31.16``Erikand it already has a 4G NAND flash drive in it
03:31.32``Erikbut I want to use the 1.5tb usb dealie
03:31.43``Erikat least for bulk storage
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04:02.22``Erik<-- watches the snow come down O.o
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07:12.24superlinuxhi all
07:14.41superlinuxwell this is my 2nd day in brlcad and I want to know how can i keep the drawing display running as ogl if I just typed on the terminal "mged"?
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09:02.40superlinuxdli, ?
09:02.50superlinuxhi dli are you ther?
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12:20.53dlisuperlinux, hi
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12:39.04superlinuxdli,  hi
12:39.14superlinuxyou were lucky to find me
12:39.21superlinuxwell this is my 2nd day in brlcad and I want to know how can i keep the drawing display running as ogl if I just typed on the terminal "mged"?
12:40.27superlinuxand I have another problem. the drawing display does not really keep refreshed
12:40.44superlinux__monty__, can you please help
12:41.20__monty__I'm sorry I can't help you, I can't even get brlcad to run yet.
12:41.28__monty__*mged
12:41.47superlinuxI have to minimize then maximize the program to see it correctly
12:41.57superlinux__monty__, what are you using?
12:42.03superlinuxi can help you
12:42.20superlinuxLinux?
12:42.23__monty__mac os X, if that's what you mean
12:42.29superlinuxmmm
12:42.40superlinuxI used Linux Ubuntu
12:42.49superlinuxit ran off the box
12:43.09__monty__It used to for me too, but now I get a Bus error.
12:43.12superlinuxI mean out of the box
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12:44.12__monty__Sorry, my laptop battery just ran out.
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12:58.04superlinux__monty__, the Linux version ran directly with me
12:59.06__monty__Yeah, the mac version used to aswell, but now it doesn't. Or do you mean you're using the linux version on a mac?
13:00.35superlinuxno
13:01.05superlinuxI am using Ubuntu intel over a tochiba Laptop
13:01.17superlinux__monty__,
13:01.28__monty__Ok.
13:01.46superlinuxwhich BrlCAD version?
13:02.01superlinuxi am using the x.10
13:02.16superlinuxi am using the 7.10
13:02.25__monty__Latest binary from brlcad.org, latest tarball, latest svn.
13:02.30superlinuxth 7.12 not yet
13:02.48superlinuxlet me try compiling the 12
13:03.19__monty__Ok, your help is much appreciated.
13:08.52superlinux__monty__, it will take me some time to download it. I am in Lebanon and we have a basic DSL
13:09.11__monty__That's ok.
13:09.44__monty__Who could I complain when you're trying to help.
13:13.57starseekererm
13:13.59starseekercc1: warnings being treated as errors
13:13.59starseeker../../../brlcad/src/libbu/crashreport.c: In function ‘bu_crashreport’:
13:13.59starseeker../../../brlcad/src/libbu/crashreport.c:75: error: format not a string literal and no format arguments
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14:02.13``Erikopengl will not do 'shaded' displays nor will it give a significant performance increase, it's probably safer to use X
14:02.50``Erik7.10 and 7.12 are pretty old, should be on 7.16.2 these days
14:03.55dlisuperlinux, I'm dont know about opengl support. :( I guess you mean opengl
14:07.33dlisuperlinux, I checked ./configure, opengl support seems to be auto detected
14:08.30dlisuperlinux,  or to specify, ./configure --with-ogl
14:11.01starseekermust not have synced stable right
14:12.13superlinuxdli, ok
14:12.55superlinuxdli, what i notcied is that the window where the drawing appears does not stay on
14:13.30dlisuperlinux, as <``Erik> says, maybe, you can play with and without opengl
14:13.31superlinuxlike i must minimize and maximize to make it clear
14:15.05``Eriksuperlinux: the ogl display manager has a known issue where redraw events are not being sent correctly all the time... seriously, dude, use the X display, it's visually identical :)
14:15.09superlinuxevery time i move a window over it then i move it out of it that display turns grey
14:15.35superlinuxso ``Erik how can i use the X display?
14:15.44superlinuxi am still very new to this
14:16.03dlisuperlinux, try: ./configure --without-ogl
14:16.13superlinuxthe aims of using BRL is to migrate from Autocad on linux
14:16.17``Erikum, should be the default, might try to do "detach" and "attach X" in the mged window?
14:16.39superlinuxi have an already built binary
14:16.46``Erikor set the FB_FILE or something, *shrug* I try not to touch a gui if possible, so'z I dunno
14:16.47dli``Erik, I tried, minimizing, moving the display window, opengl is not causing any trouble here
14:16.49superlinuxso is there an option?
14:17.07``Erikdli: it's a tricky one to track, that's why it's not fixed yet...
14:17.36``ErikI think someone (maybe starseeker) is going to re-write the OGL dm, which'll hopefully 'just work right'
14:18.03``Erika lot of the ogl stuff is slightly updated irisGL from the 80's :/
14:18.27superlinuxok .. so the command is 'detach' then do 'attach X'?
14:19.03dli``Erik, I see, but when it happens, good to try without ogl
14:19.05starseekeris THIS close to nuking stable and copying in trunk... dingnabbit I thought I had this synced!
14:19.53``Erikstarseeker: src/libbu$ svn diff -r36452:36077 vls.c  <-- yeh...
14:20.20``Eriksuperlinux: I think so.. starseeker would know better than me :D
14:20.59starseekersuperlinux: what version of BRL-CAD are you using?
14:21.22starseeker``Erik: can you tell what I messed up on the sync?
14:21.27superlinux7.10
14:21.32starseekereeeep
14:21.36superlinuxstarseeker,
14:21.47starseekerare you able to compile a newer version?
14:21.54superlinuxmaybe
14:22.07superlinuxcos it will take time downloading stuff
14:22.16starseekerah
14:22.27starseekersuperlinux: well, first try this
14:22.28superlinuxwhat about the 7.10?
14:22.29starseekermged -c
14:22.33superlinuxok
14:22.54starseekerwhen it asks what to attach, pick X
14:23.04superlinuxok
14:23.18starseekerthat's the quick way to test
14:23.33superlinuxall fine
14:23.37superlinuxno problems yet
14:23.44starseekerok
14:23.45superlinuxbrb 1 min max
14:24.12starseekergrrrr, sourceforge don't tell me you can't connect....
14:24.20starseekerthat's it
14:25.03``Erikstarseeker: never merged with subversion before, only CVS... looks like you may've merged 36452 to 36452? *shrug*
14:25.36superlinuxok back
14:25.39superlinuxthat was my mom
14:26.07starseeker``Erik: could be - well, I can't get a steady enough connection to try the traditional route anyway...
14:26.09superlinuxso what now?
14:26.18superlinuxlemme see
14:26.35starseekernow I try to remember how to set the display manager in 7.10 in the Tk gui
14:26.59starseeker(bty, I'd start downloading the 7.16.2 source if you think you can build it - many new features in that release)
14:27.05starseekerbtw rather
14:28.19superlinuxstarseeker,
14:28.30superlinuxif i just typed mged
14:28.31starseekersuperlinux: ok, you need to create a .mgedrc file (do this by starting up mged without the -c option, then under File there's a Create/update .mgedrc file
14:28.44superlinuxok
14:28.51``Erikif starseeker hadn't screwed up the stable branch, I'd say check it out via svn so'z you can save the bandwidth during upgrades... *cough* O:-)
14:29.10superlinuxok
14:29.17superlinuxi'll see the rc file
14:29.34starseekerthere should be a line like set mged_default(dm_type) X
14:29.42starseekeror maybe set mged_default(dm_type) ogl
14:29.45starseekeryou want the X one
14:30.14starseeker(edit the .mgedrc file with a text editor)
14:31.05superlinuxok sure
14:31.12superlinuxjust a moment
14:32.20superlinuxdone. restart mged?
14:32.27superlinuxi feal so
14:32.30superlinuxi feel so
14:32.41CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36842 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/: OK, stable sync got royally messed up somehow. Clear it out - next commit will recreate STABLE from trunk.
14:33.01superlinuxstarseeker, ok all nice and great
14:33.30superlinuxso this way means that thru X the openGL will work?
14:34.30CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36843 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/: Re-create STABLE from trunk
14:34.36starseekerno, you aren't using opengl
14:34.44superlinuxok
14:34.48superlinuxno problem
14:34.56starseekerwe aren't to the point yet where it's critical
14:35.11superlinuxnow i tried opening a database file
14:35.31superlinuxone of the sample files
14:35.50superlinuxnothing yet.. or i have to wait more from you?
14:37.16d_rossberghow can i connect a proxy to the docbook build to get the draft image?
14:37.37d_rossbergsuperlinux: type "tops"
14:37.43starseekerum, what's a draft image?
14:38.03d_rossberghttp://docbook.sourceforge.net/release/images/draft.png
14:38.37starseekersuperlinux: what database did you open?
14:38.48starseekerd_rossberg: good question - haven't tried using that
14:40.00d_rossbergthis wasn't a question: type the word "tops" into the mged terminal
14:41.22starseekersuperlinux: did that work?
14:41.39d_rossbergsuperlinux: what do you get returned from this command?
14:42.00starseekerd_rossberg: my guess is you need to define a customization xslt stylesheet, like what we're going to need to do for the translations - we aren't (quite) there yet but we're getting pretty close
14:44.45starseekerif it's a bit more "built in" you might be able to modify catalog.xml
14:45.34d_rossbergstarseeker: google says (tm) i have to set the proxy in java because docbook uses java
14:46.06starseekerum
14:46.21d_rossbergbut i don't know how to set the proxy in java either
14:46.24starseekersome of the docbook tools use java (specifically fop) but unless you're doing pdf it's not an issue
14:46.57starseekerd_rossberg: I must admit I'm not a genius with Docbook - I barely got fop doing out of directory pdf generation :-(
14:47.37starseekerwe intend to get more sophisticated, but right now we're pretty basic :-(
14:49.11starseekerI'm seeing this:  <xsl:param name="draft.mode">yes</xsl:param>
14:49.23starseekerbut we don't have anywhere to put such settings yet
14:50.38``Erikhttp://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/epic-fail-christmas-lights-fail.jpg
14:51.41starseeker``Erik: that's sure to have some parents doing a lot of unwanted explaining to some children
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14:53.06imad_d_rossberg, i have typed tops
14:53.15imad_then what should i do?
14:59.17d_rossbergimad_: look at the return you got, what is it?
14:59.44imad_d_rossberg, then? i just see a listing of maybe tables or files
15:01.09d_rossbergthis is fine, is there an all or all.g (for example)
15:02.05d_rossbergwhat you see there is a list of the top elements in your BRL-CAD database
15:03.51imad_d_rossberg, _GLOBAL             all/  
15:03.51imad_that's the cray.g of the samples distributed
15:04.28d_rossbergimad_: now type "e all"
15:06.45imad_ok
15:07.33d_rossbergnow you should see something in the black window
15:07.40imad_ok
15:10.42imad_d_rossberg, now i tried with the other objects
15:10.44d_rossbergnow you could type "rt" to see a nice picture and click on the help entry in the menu of the mged window to get the tutotial etc.
15:10.58imad_I understood that "e" is to view one of the listings
15:11.07imad_ok
15:17.23imad_d_rossberg, whenever i type rt, i get a black screen
15:17.30imad_so?
15:17.53imad_it's a full black screen
15:18.15imad_or a full screen in black
15:23.19starseekertry this: rt -F/dev/X
15:23.35superlinuxok
15:24.36superlinuxstarseeker, you are its man!
15:25.11starseekerthe first raytrace tried to use opengl - thats one of our opengl bugs
15:25.14superlinuxit worked
15:25.14superlinuxawesome! and cool
15:25.58superlinuxstarseeker, but i just want for example to draw basic stuff, like a line or whatever if very basic geometry
15:26.20starseekersuperlinux: we do 3D geometry (spheres, etc.)
15:26.33starseekersuperlinux: sounds like you are ready for this:
15:26.51starseekerhttp://brlcad.org/w/images/c/cf/Introduction_to_MGED.pdf
15:27.41superlinuxwhat i want is to let people to easily convert to Linux. there is LinuxCAD though it's not free. Quick CAD as far as i heard is has a problem with huge DXF files
15:28.32superlinuxstarseeker, got the point?
15:30.02superlinuxand the rc file is not as far as i see easily editable. I am a programmer. i understand that i should be participating in such nice project, and i understand that i am using an older version.
15:30.40superlinuxhowever my aims is migration
15:30.52superlinuxmigration to linux
15:30.55starseekersuperlinux: we know our usability is weak - we're working on a next generation GUI (you can see the prototype by typing archer)
15:31.14superlinuxi did.. it did not run
15:31.32superlinuxstarseeker, the gui is not as important as the commands them selves
15:31.46starseekerif you want to import a dxf file, try dxf-g
15:32.06superlinuxthey seem to be much like the cisco router commands or a C++ language in the way they are a standard
15:32.30starseekeractually, we use tcl for our command line
15:32.53superlinuxi meant people find that the Autocad commands are now a standard with time
15:33.19starseekerI doubt a lot of AutoCAD commands would map directly to BRL-CAD
15:33.30superlinuxcan't you wrap the TCL under the Autocad commands?
15:33.57starseekersuperlinux: what you should do is read the Introduction, see how BRL-CAD works, and then see if AutoCAD commands can map to BRL-CAD
15:34.08superlinuxmmm
15:34.12starseekermy guess is the systems' underlying assumptions are often too different
15:34.22starseekerBRL-CAD is a solid 3D CSG modeler
15:34.29superlinuxtrue
15:34.38starseekerAutoCAD has some 3D stuff, but they focus on 2D quite a lot as I understand it
15:34.41starseekerwe don't do much 2D
15:34.49superlinuxwhat i know is that autocad deos 3D too
15:35.10superlinuxso you need someone to write the 2d? don't you?
15:35.32starseekerif someone wants to volunteer that would be great :-)
15:35.39superlinuxok good
15:35.51starseekerbut don't underestimate the amount of work involved
15:35.58superlinuxi'll see how to integrate some of the commands
15:36.03superlinuxi know
15:36.10superlinuxi'll see how
15:36.26starseekeryou will likely find you have to create the functionality to support the commands, and that has to be done in such a way as to integrate into BRL-CAD proper
15:36.47starseekerif you see brlcad in the channel, talk to him - he's the lead designer/developer
15:37.00superlinuxstarseeker, what if for example i set a cylinder to be a line?
15:37.05superlinuxis that ok?
15:37.21starseekerum - it may work in some applications
15:37.41starseekerit heavily depends on what you're trying to accomplish
15:37.42superlinuxllike make miniature the 3D objects to 2D
15:38.22superlinuxall i want is the architechtural plans you see for building houses and such and such
15:38.35starseekerah :-)
15:38.41starseekertake a look at rtedge
15:38.46superlinuxthats what makes true money!
15:38.58superlinuxok
15:39.18starseekerthere is also some work currently going on on an annotation primitive that will help with blueprints
15:40.16superlinuxah~! you call them blue prints such maps?
15:40.26superlinuxthen be it
15:40.31starseekerthat's usually what people want ;-)
15:40.37superlinuxyes
15:40.54starseekerit's a frequent request, but not the focus of our full time developers
15:41.01starseekerhttp://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/havoc_rtedge.png.html
15:41.05starseekerthat's rtedge
15:41.09superlinuxlike the 1st thing i thought i can do is type line on mged
15:41.17starseekernope :-)
15:41.32starseekersuperlinux: I REALLY suggest reading that tutorial
15:41.41superlinuxok
15:41.44superlinuxi'll check
15:41.51starseekeryou will need to understand BRL-CAD to understand how to do the job correctly
15:41.57superlinuxmaybe i can get some funding for the part
15:44.11superlinuxstarseeker, how can i save the "-F/dev/X" part in the rt* commands?
15:44.33superlinuxcan i alias the commands rt and rtedge?
15:46.17starseekeryou can create alias commands in .mgedrc
15:46.37superlinuxhow?
15:47.05superlinuxe.g. alias rt='rt -F/dev/X'?
15:47.12superlinuxis'n't?
15:51.04superlinuxstarseeker, sorry if i bugged you with so many questions. please, look at this picture with blue background. this is a blueprint of course. such things i want to be able to do
15:51.12superlinuxhttp://www.aviationshoppe.com/AT-6-Texan.html
15:53.14starseekersuperlinux: irc is an  "in and out" communication method - not always realtime
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16:07.52starseekersuperlinux: there's a file mgedrc.html in the distribution, I believe
16:08.38starseekeryou basically use proc
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16:14.16starseekergrowl - make dmg requires root
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17:41.25brlcadstarseeker: yeah, it has to go admin to mount/demount disk images with proper access
17:42.06__monty__brlcad, Did you receive my memo's?
17:45.09brlcadyes, just read them :)
17:45.34brlcadthat's pretty informative backtrace, thanks
17:45.45__monty__No problem.
17:46.49__monty__About the 'p dmp' and 'p pubvars' , did I enter them right? I just entered them on the gdb prompt after the backtrace.
17:47.04brlcadyou did, I forgot those are #defines
17:47.10brlcadyou still have that session?
17:47.54brlcadhm, actually dmp should have worked
17:48.07__monty__Yeah I have the session open still.
17:48.25brlcadbut since I make one of the X11 calls a function instead of a macro, you need to go up the stack
17:48.29brlcadtype "up"
17:48.32brlcadthen p dmp
17:49.05brlcadp screen
17:49.21__monty__Should I paste the output directly into irc? Or go via pastebin?
17:49.53brlcadpastebin if it's more than like 5 lines
17:50.04brlcadotherwise here is fine
17:50.15__monty__Ok.
17:50.54__monty__http://paste.bzflag.bz/d51d71b45
17:51.36brlcadp *dmp
17:51.41brlcadp screen
17:51.41brlcadp screenp *screen
17:51.47brlcadp pubvars
17:51.49brlcadp *pubvars
17:53.18__monty__http://paste.bzflag.bz/m37757de here you go.
17:55.07__monty__I hope it's helpful =)
17:56.26brlcadtoo
18:03.54brlcadvery helpful!
18:04.13__monty__cheers.
18:04.15brlcad.... looks like XDefaultScreenOfDisplay() is returning the screen number, not the screen pointer
18:04.57brlcadwhich isn't right!
18:05.22__monty__The bastard!
18:06.02``Erik(screen number, or NULL?)
18:06.31``Erikhm, 0x50? O.o
18:09.14brlcadyeah, that's gotta be some error code
18:10.09brlcadi should probably just rewrite libdm-X
18:10.22``Eriklibdm-SDL ftw
18:10.23brlcadthe X11 code there is a really old method
18:11.17brlcadthat's a possibility, probably even easier, but begrudging adding a new dep
18:11.33brlcadspecially since tk should work just fine and with no added complexity
18:11.50``Erikyeh, came up in a discussion with starseeker at one point
18:12.21brlcadthat's just what I should do, finish off the one there, but got other code to finish up first before going down that rabbit hole
18:13.08__monty__tries to drag brlcad down the rabbit hole.
18:14.11``Erikoh my
18:40.43CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36844 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-X.c: untested. try to avoid the X11 calls entirely during initialization, only making the corresponding Tk calls. XDefaultScreenOfDisplay() is return 0x50 on __monty__'s system for some unknown reason.
18:40.45brlcad__monty__: give that a try  (unfortunately can't test it myself at the moment)
18:42.03__monty__How do I give it a try?
19:09.16CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36845 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-X.c: wrap the new tk calls in HAVE_TK so we can compile clean
19:09.32CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36846 10/brlcad/trunk/include/dm.h: ws indent cleanup
19:09.54brlcad__monty__: run "svn up", then rebuild/reinstall
19:19.22brlcaddon't have to rebuild everything, just "make && make install"
19:19.33brlcadit'll just rebuild the pieces that got updated
19:21.30starseekeris considering going down the dm-tk rabbit hole
19:21.49starseekerif it works and works well, would it get rid of all the other non-opengl dms?
19:22.50brlcadmany of them
19:22.54brlcadnot all of them
19:23.11starseekerwell, I suppose plot and ps
19:23.47brlcadyeah
19:43.02CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36847 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libgcv/region_end.c: ws indent comment cleanup
19:43.25__monty__Sorry for the late reply, I was studying. I took the 'run svn up' literaly, the terminal outputted: Skipped '.'
19:43.42__monty__Should I now just run make and then make install?
19:45.44__monty__I probably should have cd'ed to the source directory first, shouldn't I?
19:47.08starseekerthat might help _)
19:47.09starseeker:-)
19:47.46__monty__Am I the only mac user with problems running brlcad?
19:48.09*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@69.90.48.97)
19:48.22starseeker__monty__: there are some glitches we know about
19:51.49__monty__Ok I did the svn up, make && make install. Now when I try launching mged I get the following output: WARNING: screen number is [0]    \n  Bus error
19:52.10starseekerum - __monty__ can you run in gdb again?
19:52.18__monty__I sure can
19:53.09__monty__Up to backtrace or all the other ones, like p dmp too?
19:53.21starseekerlet's see where it's dying first
19:53.25starseekeris it the same place?
19:53.54starseekerer, yeah, up to backtrace first
19:54.13__monty__#0 blablba in X_open_dm blabalbal :399
19:54.34__monty__I'll paste it to pastebin if you want.
19:55.03starseeker__monty__: let me check that dm-X line
19:55.48__monty__http://paste.bzflag.bz/m54705f56
19:57.27starseeker__monty__: hmm.  can you do: print privars->pix ?
19:58.06brlcadp *dmp
19:58.13starseekerer, yeah :-)
19:58.21CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36848 10/isst/trunk/src/local_worker.c: make cut ray fire the right direction
19:58.21brlcadand p *privars :)
19:58.32__monty__'print privars->pix'  gives me $1 = 0
19:58.35brlcadcurious if it got the right width/height
19:58.47starseekeryeah, sorry - I always get that wrong the first time I debug anything
19:59.01brlcadoooh, DefaultRootWindow.. another X11 call
19:59.06brlcadthat's the crasher
19:59.56starseekerflips up dm-tk.c and eyes it...
19:59.59brlcadlooks like if you start with Tk windows, you have to stik with them .. maybe something in 8.5 not playing nicely with the Mac X11 hearsheaders
20:00.02__monty__http://paste.bzflag.bz/m1ae647d5
20:00.48brlcadbecause it's the Display* and Visual* that one gets from Tk_Display() .. that isn't working with any X11 call
20:01.14brlcadbah, it didn't get width/height, thx __monty__
20:01.25__monty__No problem.
20:01.38starseeker__monty__: you can run xterm and other X11 apps OK, right?
20:01.55__monty__yep xterm, inkscape, gimp
20:02.01starseekerhmm
20:02.19__monty__I don't run x11 often by the way.
20:03.39brlcadahhh, starting to get a handle on this
20:03.52brlcadTk_CreateWindowFromPath() is very informative
20:08.10starseekerarrgh
20:08.17starseekergets badness
20:09.44starseekerX Error of failed request:  BadAlloc (insufficient resources for operation) Major opcode of failed request:  53 (X_CreatePixmap) Serial number of failed request:  343 Current serial number in output stream:  344
20:15.57__monty__Good night all, if you need me to test something send me a memo.
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20:30.53brlcadstarseeker: yeah, I busted it a couple days ago I think
20:31.04brlcadworking on it
20:31.12starseekernp
20:31.27brlcadcurious, why didn't you use HIDDEN in that HIDDEN_DM_... define?
20:31.38brlcadinstead of duplicating the two cases
20:32.08starseekerum
20:32.26brlcadintentional? oversight?
20:32.39starseekeroversight
20:32.54starseekerthink I hit a build error and just did something to get it going
20:33.27CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36849 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-X.c: ws, more verbose quellage
20:34.26brlcado.O hm, okay
20:35.19CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36850 10/brlcad/trunk/include/dm.h: collapse into just one HIDDEN_DM_FUNCTION_PROTOTYPES(), use HIDDEN
20:35.38starseekerdid I do something stupid again?
20:37.52starseekeris sure he has done a lot of dumb stuff on the dm side of things
20:46.57CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36851 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-tk.c: Stub out the new functions needed after the libdm struct changes
20:56.17starseekerbrlcad: is there a quick way to enable the dm-tk build?
21:02.21``Erikhack the gibso^Wmakefile
21:03.12starseeker``Erik: it looks like it's set up to conditionally build, but I'm not sure what makes DM_TK "true"
21:03.35starseeker(apparently "WITH_TK" is not set to true for the default enable-all?)
21:04.47``Erikit's forced to off in configure.ac
21:04.54``Erik3685
21:05.00starseekerah, thanks
21:05.35``Erikeasiest would be to muck with the values of WITH_TK_TRUE and WITH_TK_FALSE in the Makefile itself
21:07.09starseekerwell, I need all this to propigate through so I can use dmtype set to try switching to tk
21:07.18starseekerso it's probably not just one Makefile
21:07.54``Erikhm, hack configure.ac, change [ "xno" = "xyes" ] to [ "xyes" = "xyes" ] or something?
21:08.18starseekeryeah, there's actually a valid but commented out test right below it
21:08.24starseekerre-enabled and is testing now
21:08.51starseekerdoubt I have the chops to actually make it work but I'll take a poke and see where it's at
21:11.35*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B149C24.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:27.08brlcadstarseeker: all the DM_* are from configure
21:27.24brlcadrather, toggled high up, then conditionalized in the Makefile.am
21:28.29brlcadwhich right now looks like it toggled via --with-tk
21:30.48starseeker``Erik spotted it - it was forced off
21:33.43starseekerurk
21:33.51starseekerturns off WITH_TK in libfb
21:34.27starseekerone problem child at a time
21:44.15brlcadyou're working on libdm or libfb?
21:59.15*** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
21:59.15*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
22:15.59CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36852 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/librender/ (camera.c render_internal.h): stash a copy of the tie struct in render for use in init() functions
22:20.19CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36853 10/isst/trunk/src/local_worker.c: remove debugging printf
22:20.39CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36854 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/librender/cut.c: color intersected regions
22:32.23starseekerbrlcad: libdm
22:32.23*** join/#brlcad akafubu (n=akafubu@unaffiliated/akafubu)
22:32.44starseekeralthough "workign on" is probably a bit strong - more like "exploring"
22:50.05starseekerblinks - aside from a rather odd notion of what the center of the screen is, this tk dm isn't doing bad at all
22:52.11starseeker(he says as he tries to switch to rtgl and mged crashes...)
22:53.09starseekerin fact, it already moves the havoc wireframe around more easily than X does
22:53.47starseekernifty
23:13.33starseekergives --enable-aqua-tk a try and is surprised to see libdm complain about undefined Tk symbols... hmm
23:25.01starseekerooooo
23:25.05starseekerthat makes sense...
23:25.28starseekerDM_LIBS doesn't HAVE tk if building without X11...
23:26.28``Erikhttp://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/728/ an oldie but a goodie
23:40.00*** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@69.172.97.211)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091210

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091210

01:00.08*** join/#brlcad Nohla (n=jesica@201.255.230.172)
01:08.04``Erikpixar intro parody http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1921845
01:13.31CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36855 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 5 dirs):
01:13.31CIA-41BRL-CAD: Take a few baby steps towards dm-tk + aquatk. Try to turn on ITK when aquatk is
01:13.31CIA-41BRL-CAD: on, itcl is being built and x11 is off, avoid a few X11/Xutil.h includes in the
01:13.31CIA-41BRL-CAD: DM_TK sections, disable the tk framebuffer stuff until the tk display manager
01:13.31CIA-41BRL-CAD: gets sorted out. Trying this with aquatk as it is a good way to ensure no X11
01:13.34CIA-41BRL-CAD: requirements in the tk display manager - hopefully this doesn't break
01:13.36CIA-41BRL-CAD: anything...
01:14.20starseekercrosses fingers that ``Erik won't have more ammo to raz him about tomorrow...
01:15.43``Erikif I run out, I"ll just start making stuff up :D
01:16.17starseekermged won't come up with that setup (tk_open_dm fails) but amusingly enough archer does (but can't open a model without ogl, of course)
01:16.24starseekerheh
01:17.20starseekermuch more annoyingly, we don't seem to have the ttk aqua them available
01:18.59starseekerwonder if we need to pass a build flag in or something
01:26.23starseekerhumph - not even close - close X11 and nothing happens
01:26.31starseekerdoggone it
01:32.32starseekerare we even building tk aqua in the first place?
01:34.30starseekeruh oh
01:34.56starseekergrep, why didn't you see a tk/unix configure line with aqua...
01:38.03starseekerwoot
01:38.27*** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (n=Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1)
01:38.48starseekerdunno why aqua wasn't getting triggered in the tk build - have to look into that - but manually doing it works
01:39.04starseekermenus aren't working for some reason...
01:45.34starseekerhttp://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/mged_aquatk_1st.png (OK, it's not really the first - brlcad has done this before - but first for me)
01:45.57starseekerfor some reason archer is glued to the upper left corner
01:46.01starseekerhttp://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/archer_aquatk_1st.png
01:47.15starseekeroh, there we go
01:49.06starseekerapparently the clam theme doesn't play well with aquatk
01:49.18starseekerhttp://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/archer_aquatk_aquatheme.png
01:51.14starseekerno, now it's doing it again
01:51.15starseekerweird
01:51.18starseekeroh well, details
01:52.53starseekerheads home
01:56.53*** join/#brlcad Nohla (n=jesica@201.255.247.166)
02:32.33brlcadstarseeker: a great way to "explore" a code is to clean it up :)
02:33.01brlcadquell warnings, restructure for no forward decls, remove dead code, cleanup comments ;)
02:35.50brlcadstarseeker: hah, that's pretty awesome that you even got that far... been a LONG while since I've seen MGED in that mode :)
02:36.12brlcadlooks like aquatk is coming along a lot better than it was at first!
02:37.14brlcadyou got that far just by turning everything back on, eh?
02:45.22starseekerbrlcad: more or less
02:48.03brlcadheh, that's surprising, but cool
02:48.31starseekeryou can see what I did in commit 36855 - that's it except for manually doing an --enable-aquatk in tk/unix
02:48.34brlcadexciting actually, that we could be sans x11 on mac os x ... :)
02:48.47brlcadreally would bump the priority of getting a brl-cad terminal going
02:48.53starseekergrins evilly
02:49.03starseekerwould LOVE to ditch X11
02:49.08brlcadyeah, I was reading the patch
02:49.28starseekerticklish part was the ITK build detection - still not sure I got that totally right
02:49.47starseekerand I haven't messed with the tk framebuffer at all yet, so no raytracing
02:49.50brlcadwas libfb horked?
02:49.56brlcadnoticed you disabled it
02:51.35brlcador just keeping it simple
02:51.39starseekerkeeping it simple
02:51.55starseekerI might have been able to ditch an X11 header and move forward, but I didn't want to complicate things
02:52.00starseekerfigured dm first, then fb
02:52.27brlcadthe AM_CONDITIONAL isn't probably what it needs to be
02:52.50starseekeryeah, figured
02:52.53brlcadbuild_brlcad_itcl is the switch, the other tests should affect that switch
02:53.18starseekerum - apparently if not building X11 or tk itcl is on but itk is off
02:53.24starseekerat least, that's what happened
02:53.53brlcadin the section where that var is tested/set, can test for the other two vars
02:54.01brlcadyeah, I think that was just part of the X11 weeding
02:54.23starseekeroh - so there isn't a scenario with itcl but not itk?
02:54.26brlcadto get it compiling on a system that didn't have X11
02:54.29starseekerthat would vastily simplify things
02:54.49starseekerum - itk works with aquatk (apparently)
02:54.56starseekerotherwise archer wouldn't aquify
02:55.24brlcadyeah, that's where aquatk changes the logic
02:55.42starseekerwhat really bothers me is why the aquatk tk build wasn't triggered by --enable-aquatk
02:55.53starseekermight have had a stale compile or something I suppose...
02:57.29brlcadlogic should be something like "if x11 or aquatk, traverse into tk/itk"
02:58.44starseekerI think it's at 3910 in configure.ac
02:59.08brlcadyou have a system Tk it was using?
02:59.10starseekerlooks OK, but I didn't see any subconfigure of tk
02:59.13brlcadenable-all and it should have enabled
02:59.15starseekernot intentionally
02:59.22starseekerI had enable-all
02:59.35brlcadshould see --enable-aqua in config.log head
02:59.43brlcad(for tk's config.log)
02:59.54brlcadthat's the toggle
03:00.02brlcadit obviously worked :)
03:00.23starseekerno, only when I manually did a cd into tk/unix and configured it myself
03:02.57starseekerbrlcad: if you're on a mac at home you can give it a whirl :-)
03:03.53starseekerDID see --enable-aqua appear in the configure lines for misc/enigma and the other subconfigures, but I didn't see any triggering of a tk subconfigure at all
03:07.25starseekerI think I did ./configure --enable-all --enable-aquatk --disable-X11 or some such
03:21.54CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36856 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libgcv/region_end.c:
03:21.54CIA-41BRL-CAD: flatten and simplify the logic a little bit. make vars accessed post jump
03:21.54CIA-41BRL-CAD: 'static' in order to quell compilation warnings about setjmp/longjmp possibly
03:21.54CIA-41BRL-CAD: clobbering their register data. as static, they should be safe (but now this
03:21.55CIA-41BRL-CAD: routine isn't thread safe (not that it likely was to begin with)).
03:21.57brlcadhuh, was tk enabled?
03:23.18brlcadwonder what compiler rev was reporting that jmp clobbage
06:05.32*** join/#brlcad Computer_ (n=Computer@209-16-114-100.net.bhntampa.com)
06:14.43*** join/#brlcad superlinux (n=imad@77.42.133.191)
06:14.48superlinuxstarseeker, hi
06:15.10superlinuxwhere can i find the itk 3.2 to download it?
08:12.29*** join/#brlcad superlinux (n=imad@85.195.142.183.satgate.net)
12:08.02*** join/#brlcad __monty__ (n=toon@78-23-208-210.access.telenet.be)
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13:57.59``Erikbrlcad: get it iwth both apple 4.0.1 and fbsd 4.2.1
14:20.59starseekercc1: warnings being treated as errors
14:20.59starseeker../../../brlcad/src/libbu/crashreport.c: In function ‘bu_crashreport’:
14:20.59starseeker../../../brlcad/src/libbu/crashreport.c:75: error: format not a string literal and no format arguments
14:21.02starseekermake[2]: *** [crashreport.lo] Error 1
14:21.04starseekerthat's an fprintf
14:21.11starseekererm
14:22.24starseekerwouldn't the snprintf to the buffer set up a string literal for the fprintf?
14:23.21starseekerheads in
14:23.55``Erikneither of my boxen freak out on it
14:24.06``Erikthough changing it to fprintf(fp, "%s", buf); might help?
14:25.49*** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@69.172.97.211)
14:44.00``Erik"at&t to put 5gb cap on iphone" nice
15:09.13CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36857 10/rt^3/trunk/src/tests/GeometryServiceTest.cxx:
15:09.13CIA-41BRL-CAD: add an initial high-level integration test harness for chatting with the
15:09.13CIA-41BRL-CAD: geometry service. this stubs out some basic connections, probing and reporting
15:09.13CIA-41BRL-CAD: on the status of functionality. the client and server classes next need to get
15:09.13CIA-41BRL-CAD: filled out with an interaction with the actual GS protocol (either low-level or
15:09.16CIA-41BRL-CAD: via classes) but the intent is a dependency-free test of the protocol.
15:09.33*** join/#brlcad brlcad (n=sean@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ)
15:09.43brlcadgrr
15:14.01``Erikdude, peer must have it out for you
15:22.28brlcadhits the road, late
16:14.11*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B149E94.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:23.43CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36858 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (metaball/metaball.c table.c): rt_metaball_get (for g2asc)
16:24.41``Erikflees before people yell at him for that
16:42.20CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36859 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/linebuf.c: ws
16:44.18CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36860 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/crashreport.c:
16:44.18CIA-41BRL-CAD: quell warning about fprintf without a string literal. that was intentionally
16:44.18CIA-41BRL-CAD: done to avoid fprintf needing to utilize an expansion buffer (whether on stack
16:44.18CIA-41BRL-CAD: or heap) in case we're crashing hard. instead, change up the fprintf with an
16:44.18CIA-41BRL-CAD: fwrite since that's the intent anyways, to just write out some bytes. make the
16:44.19CIA-41BRL-CAD: file stream unbuffered while we're at it.
16:48.37CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36861 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/crashreport.c: convert the other fprintfs to fwrite too except for the handful of static strings, leave them as fprintf.
16:52.49brlcadwonders why anyone would yell at him for adding in g2asc support..
16:53.08brlcadshoulda had it from the get-go
17:16.09*** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=starseek@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ)
17:16.32starseekerhmm
17:16.39brlcadyeah, boo hiss
17:16.51starseekerserver hickup?
17:17.05brlcadserver katapulted
17:18.07starseekerow
17:18.55starseekertries aquatk again from a clean build to see if tk/unix gets the word...
17:20.46starseekerok, there's the configure line this time :-)
17:20.56starseekerlet there be make
17:24.27CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36862 10/rt^3/trunk/src/tests/GeometryServiceTest.cxx: make the various sections more distinct with some comment formatting. add another one for testing event notifications.
17:43.10CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36863 10/rt^3/trunk/src/tests/GeometryServiceTest.cxx: comment out what the classes are, what they are meant to represent. break out the macros into multiple lines and add a check to make sure the server stays running.
17:45.06starseekeroh, I'm wrong - the menus aren't missing, they're just where apple puts 'em
18:01.26CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36864 10/rt^3/trunk/src/tests/GeometryServiceTest.cxx: make sure the server will restart
18:02.22brlcadnew screenshot?
18:03.47starseekeroh, sure :-) one sec
18:05.33CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36865 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/Makefile.am: Don't turn off TK building if X11 isn't there anymore.
18:05.35starseekerbet that was my Tk problem
18:06.15``Erikthe busted-assed twisty maze of code for v4 vs v5 is a pain
18:12.34CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36866 10/rt^3/trunk/src/tests/GeometryServiceTest.cxx: additional tests for getting .g representations, persisting geometry versions, and server-side raytracing.
18:12.57brlcadsomething other than havoc would be nice too :)
18:13.22starseekerbrlcad: now you tell me :-P
18:13.27starseekerremaking...
18:14.58starseekererm - well - here's the havoc one, I'll make another one in a second... http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/mged_aqua_withmenu.png
18:21.57starseekerbrlcad: how about this:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/mged_aqua_jeep.png
18:33.43``Erikare you sure we have enough havoc screenshots?
18:39.35starseeker``Erik: heh
18:39.45starseekerI use that one because the wireframe is a pain in the neck
18:40.30CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36867 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/librender/cut.c: use VJOIN1 instead of VCOMB2
18:46.51starseekeroo - tkhtml3 doesn't like aqua
18:46.56starseekercrud
18:47.09``Erik*cough* O:-)
18:47.31``Eriknifty, toyjeep doesn't facetize wel
18:51.43``Erikniftier, pinewood facetizes the two starboard wheels, but not the two port wheels.
19:19.53starseekergood - aquatk now compile straight.  Time to figure out what's busted and why
19:38.57starseekerok, looks like the tk framebuffer isn't as far along
21:00.40CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36868 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (OpenNurbsInterfaces.cpp PullbackCurve.cpp): Cleaned up check_pullback_seam_bridge() in pullback code, also adjusted bounds of linear extrude, conical and cylindrical surfaces. Added some debugging code related to trimming curves crossing seam bounaries(still WIP).
21:04.05CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36869 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: Added code to push 2d UV coordinates back into domain for closed surfaces that have wrapped past the seam.
21:07.09CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36870 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: Make sure 'ctree' assigned to NULL when trims are removed ( starts without trims in STEP converter)
21:27.40CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36871 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/html/manuals/archer/ (Archer_Documentation.chm Makefile.am): Opened this on a Windows box, no content to speak of in it (same as the tool on Linux tried earlier) - byebye
21:48.55*** join/#brlcad Nohla (n=jesica@201.255.247.166)
22:12.55*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=matthew@dhcp-143-147.mcme-students.carleton.ca)
22:42.34brlcadnice screenshots starseeker
22:42.47brlcadqueues them up
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23:34.36CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36872 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libwdb/ (Makefile.am metaball.c): beginnings of mk_metaball. Not adding it to wdb.h as I don't think I like the signature.
23:41.04yukonbobindeed, screenshots are look clean and cool.
23:41.20yukonbobs/are look/look/
23:43.20``Erikscratches his brain
23:46.13CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36873 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libwdb/metaball.c: erm, already was an entry in wdb.h, just no implementation
23:47.24``Erikwhat the flying hell
23:49.03``Erikhow the feck did it compile earlier? O.o
23:49.11CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36874 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libwdb/ (Makefile.am metaball.c): ... already had it
23:49.16starseeker``Erik: welcome to my world :)
23:49.46``Erikheh
23:50.53starseekerbrlcad: apparently archer help is "not yet implemented"
23:59.12``Erikbah
23:59.37``Erikall that work is sitting in an editor window screwed up because those ... people can't figure out the difference between 5:00 and 3:30
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091211

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091211

00:08.05*** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (n=Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1)
00:40.31``Eriknifty http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1925317
01:23.03CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36875 10/rt^3/trunk/src/tests/GeometryServiceTest.cxx: stub out getDirectory and addObject, expanding the calls throughout
01:25.07CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36876 10/rt^3/trunk/src/tests/GeometryServiceTest.cxx: do the dir comparison assert
01:40.30brlcad``Erik: src/libwdb/wdb.c
01:40.56brlcadyou'd stubbed something in there earlier (which was busted), I made it unbusted a few months back but mostly left the signature you stubbed
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01:55.21``Eriknoticed a bit ago, fergot I'd done anything at all heh
01:55.44``Erikneeds to be wired to 'put' or something, I guess
02:00.02brlcadsrc/proc-db/metaball.c calls that mk_metaball() now
02:00.22``Erikmusta had a total context dump or something O.o
02:00.27``Eriklipreading is awesome http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1925762
02:01.20``Erikasc2g, if I understand it correctly, merely calls the tcl 'db put' command, which hits libged's put.c, calling the mk_ routine?
02:03.19brlcaddoesn't sound right
02:07.42brlcadhm, but you may be right!
02:09.55brlcadlooks like it's creating a wdb db object
02:10.09brlcadwhich means it's not going through put.c just yet (though it should)
02:10.21``Erikhum
02:10.22brlcadgoing through the wdb_obj command table
02:10.58brlcadwhich calls wdb_put_tcl -> wdb_put_cmd  -> does the deed via functab's ft_make() callback
02:11.21``Erik<-- noticed the 'put' and tcl crud in the asc2g step, dorked with the 'put' command, couldn't quite find the breadtrail between tcl and mk_* before the retards rebooted the server 90 minutes befoer they said they would
02:11.38``Erikso'z I asked bob on my way out, and he thought my guess was right *shrug*
02:11.53brlcadwdb_obj replicates most of the commands, just with a tcl interp tossed in to mess things up
02:11.55``Erikbut he couldn't verify, since the fileserver was rebooted an hour and a half before they said they'd start rebooting servers
02:12.11``Erikdid I mention that they took the server down way before they said?
02:12.37``Erikwaits for a fat sun diskpack to become available O:-)
02:24.10CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36877 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac:
02:24.11CIA-41BRL-CAD: if the WITH_X11 is going to get disabled in the Makefile.am, then the logic has
02:24.11CIA-41BRL-CAD: to be improved in here for determining whether to traverse into the tk/itk dirs.
02:24.11CIA-41BRL-CAD: if neither x11 is detected as usable nor aquatk capabilities enabled, then tk is
02:24.11CIA-41BRL-CAD: off. if tk is off or x11 is off, itk is also off.
02:27.42starseekerbrlcad: nicely done
02:46.05brlcaduntested, but should make non-x11 work again
03:03.12CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36878 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/TODO: Add more to the Archer TODO file.
03:13.12CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36879 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/TODO: Archer TODO items.
03:25.46CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36880 10/brlcad/trunk/src/vdeck/vdeck.1: include the brief example from cary mann on how to use the vdeck tool. clean up some of the language and formatting while we're here.
03:26.53brlcadmm, where possible, those TODO entries shouldn't be vague
03:27.24CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36881 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: probably not quite significant enough for a NEWS line, but credit Cary Mann with special thanks for providing an example on how to use vdeck.
03:28.05brlcadthe undo line jumped out at me as very vague, should mean something to someone that doesn't know what the current status is -- what is (at least one of) the next step(s)
03:30.20CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36882 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/librender/cut.c: convert undocumented floating point magic to the lowest epsilon possible. should document it if that's insufficient (noting the sensitivity/range/caveats) instead of leaving a magic tolerance.
03:36.16starseekerbrlcad: that's what I'll flesh out when I talk to Bob tomorrow
03:36.28starseekerthis isn't intended to be "final" yet
03:36.42starseekerjust making sure I don't forget to discuss points
03:36.43CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36883 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/human.c: include documentation provided by rain weaver on where the articulation points should be for the various joints.
03:37.17brlcadisn't expected to be final, but should still always be in a complete state
03:37.50starseekerbrlcad: OK, I'll nuke the undo line until I can get specifics from Bob
03:38.41brlcadwell you meant something by it
03:38.46brlcadwhat'd you mean?
03:39.36starseekerThe last time we discussed undo (which was some time ago) Bob had a couple specific situations he wanted to handle, but I don't remember the details
03:39.46brlcadthere is undoubtedly a task there regardless of talking to bob
03:39.49brlcadahh
03:39.55starseekeralso we don't do anything sane in the "run out of memory" case
03:39.59brlcadwell one of them is being able to undo transaction sets
03:40.14brlcadthat's another, disaster recovery
03:40.43brlcadif I recall, you can't undo selections too, that would be useful
03:41.04brlcadif you're building up a selection using the mouse of command line, then select one too many .. can't just undo it, have to start over
03:41.16brlcadevery action should be undoable
03:41.37starseekermmm.  That's a problem - the assumption to date was that only actions that change geometry are undoable
03:42.02brlcadthose fall into a separate section of "todo" classification .. that's a new feature
03:42.26brlcadthat's reasonable, but just not what I'd expect
03:43.28brlcadI don't know as a user which operations do and don't affect the db, especially if I go into an edit mode
03:44.05starseekerIt's doable, but I image it involves some reworking of how selection lists are handled
03:44.06brlcadwouldn't be unreasonable to presume that just entering that edit mode affects the db (writing a log, opening a transaction, whatever), and that I should be able to undo it
03:44.19brlcadit involves reworking a fair bit
03:44.29brlcadbut it's things that libged should be handling better anyways
03:44.50brlcadbob has all that undo logic up in archer, it should be lower-level
03:44.55brlcadlibged commands should be transactional
03:45.50brlcadwith ged_exec style options, so you could perform any command in a "no-action-but-tell-me-what-you-would-have-done" mode, silent modes, verbose modes, forced/unforced, etc
03:46.18brlcadeach command returning one or more transactions that you could apply to the db (or not)
03:46.46brlcadimmediate undo is then simply throw away the unapplied transaction
03:47.21brlcadinfinite undo is unrolling the stack of transactions that have been applied
03:47.21starseekernods
03:47.42starseekersounds database-ish
03:48.08brlcadit is
03:48.21brlcadnot called a "geometry database" for no reason :)
03:48.32brlcadit's transactional now, just at a very low-level granular level
03:48.50brlcadthese are high-level multi-object/multi-change transactions
03:48.58starseekerheh - just wondering if we can rip some subset of code out of one of the sql codebases to help, or if it's something we have to integrate/build in ourselves
03:49.24brlcadthis is all pretty highly specific
03:49.51starseekeryeah, kinda figured
03:49.52brlcadto our API, our format, the types of transactions
03:50.30brlcadit's not much code and not anything tricky
03:50.31CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36884 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/TODO: Expand on Archer undo related items
03:51.16brlcadit's just instead of making all the various commands do various database changes, they instead just record what they wanted to do, and return that
03:51.26brlcadthen something else applies the set of things they wanted to do
03:51.27starseekerbrlcad: OK. When I heard "transactions" I started wondering what happens if multiple people happen to be working on the same .g, like an sql database ;-)
03:51.51starseekerthat makes sense
03:52.41starseekermight help fit things to a libsvn based geometry server :-)
03:53.15brlcadto deal with multiple simultaneous users, there should be locking at some level -- the "something else that applies the set of things they wanted to do" could have that locking logic
03:53.41starseekernods
03:53.51brlcadright now, it's transactionless but fragmented
03:53.58brlcadan xpush that fails half-way leaves your db hosed
03:54.06brlcadit souldn't do that
03:54.17starseekergood point
03:55.23starseekercatches up on email
03:57.07brlcadgoes home
03:57.35starseekerbrlcad: I imagine there'll be some chatting about Archer/MGED tomorrow at some point if you want to join the brawl ;-)
03:58.38brlcadmaybe, but you all are already doing great on that front
03:58.46brlcadI'd like to get a release tagged if I can
03:58.46starseekerwinces
03:58.51starseekerok, cool :-)
03:59.19starseekercan't wait to watch myself explain to Bob what we've got to do to libged ;-)
03:59.26brlcadour anniversary is coming up, want to get caught up with the pipeline
03:59.31brlcaddown to 44 items (from 200+)
03:59.32starseekerooo :-)
03:59.47brlcadlibged needs the other refactorings first
03:59.57brlcadthat was part of refactoring the pattern into private / public funcs
04:00.39brlcadonce all the writes are wrapped up in a private _ged_write_object() and friends, you simply change those to "record object change" instead"
04:00.58brlcadsame for additions, deletions, selections, view changes, ..
04:01.09brlcadand it works itself out
04:01.25brlcadbecomes just a more complex event-based setup
04:01.33brlcadwith commands generating events
04:01.40brlcadsets of events
04:02.26starseekernods
04:02.39starseekerwonder how rtgl works into that...
04:02.51starseekerlots and lots of view changing "events" :_)
04:03.18starseekeractually, guess it shouldn't matter
04:03.57starseekerthat drawing is independent of the "normal" changes since it's not something you want to undo partway through
04:08.57CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36885 10/brlcad/trunk/include/rtgeom.h: Add Erik's comments on the meaning of metaball parameters.
04:10.01brlcadthey don't persist, so multiple view changes all collapse together until there's a non-view change
04:10.28starseekerah, right
04:10.59brlcaddoing that, we should be able to invert most commands
04:16.19CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36886 10/rt^3/trunk/src/tests/GeometryServiceTest.cxx: (log message trimmed)
04:16.19CIA-41BRL-CAD: add two more 'would be nice' features (that we won't likely get to for a while,
04:16.19CIA-41BRL-CAD: but within scope regardless) of being able to extract a polygonal or even
04:16.20CIA-41BRL-CAD: point-cloud representation for geometry. polygonal is straight-forward, similar
04:16.20CIA-41BRL-CAD: to wireframe, but point-cloud adds in that interesting concept of non-blocking
04:16.22CIA-41BRL-CAD: streaming event results (getting the points flowing across the wire as they are
04:16.24CIA-41BRL-CAD: calculated). Most of the rest of the GS calls are blocking calls that get their
04:16.50brlcadahh, thanks for taking care of the metaball doc
04:17.03starseekernp :-)
04:17.29starseekerneeds to flesh out the other primitive structures in there with some doxygen goodness...
04:17.44brlcadlike the embedded latex, heh
04:18.12starseekerI think that was actually in his original email :-)
04:21.16b0ef7.16.2 fails to build on me
04:21.21b0eflibtool: link: `nurb_plot.lo' is not a valid libtool object
04:21.21b0efmake[2]: *** [librt_nil.la] Error 1
04:23.35``Erikprobably a stale object file or something, remove the .lo file and try again?
04:24.57b0efhmm, yeah, seems to be going ahead; thanks
04:25.01b0efit doesn't like to be built with "make -j8"?
04:29.52``Erikshould be fine with it, that's what I usually do *shrug*
04:57.19CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36887 10/rt^3/trunk/src/tests/GeometryServiceTest.cxx: clean up the report format adding a header for each test section so the results are easier to review. simplify the summary line too.
04:58.45brlcadarf, really leaving now
04:58.51brlcadkorean tomorrow!
04:58.55brlcadmm.
04:58.59brlcadwanders
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14:26.10starseekerhits the road (hopefully not face first)
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15:18.32``Erikhighways were good, but plenty of ice on the side roads O.o
15:23.07starseekeryep, cold one today
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16:33.52*** join/#brlcad superlinux (n=imad@85.195.142.183.satgate.net)
16:38.17superlinuxhi all
16:38.23superlinuxstarseeker, I hope you are at your desk. I want to know which book should I read to write for brl cad?
16:38.25superlinuxstarseeker, I hope you are at your desk. I want to know which book should I read to write code for brl cad?
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16:47.13superlinuxstarseeker, I hope you are at your desk. I want to know which book should I read to write code for brl cad?
16:47.37superlinuxallo?1
16:54.45starseekersuperlinux: patience is a virtue
16:55.01superlinuxal right sorry
16:55.05starseekerthere isn't really a "programming BRL-CAD" book
16:55.10superlinuxi know
16:55.45superlinuxi meant the docs and stuf the like that enlightens me to start writing and developing
16:56.09superlinuxi am a programmer by trade i tell you
16:57.40superlinuxI saw archer on linux. seems good by now
17:00.36starseekertake a look at the stuff here:  http://brlcad.org/wiki/Documentation
17:00.51starseekerhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Developing_applications
17:01.25superlinuxok
17:04.33superlinuxstarseeker, i want to make it simpler. i think you still remember discussing writing for 2D. and also you use tcl. so can i write tcl for the sake of BRL?
17:04.54superlinuxstarseeker, i want to make it simpler. i think you still remember discussing writing for 2D. and also you use tcl. so how can i write tcl for the sake of BRL?
17:07.11starseekersure
17:07.16starseekerarcher is mostly tcl
17:07.45starseekerif you want to work on 2D tcl stuff, take a look at the sketch editor
17:07.56starseekerit could stand (a lot of) improvement
17:08.06starseekerand it's what we currently have for creating 2D sketch objects
17:08.49superlinuxlet me see. how and where is the sketch editor?
17:09.04starseeker/src/tclscripts/mged/skt_ed.tcl
17:09.08superlinuxok
17:09.10starseekerin the brlcad tree
17:09.19starseekerto see it in action, do the following in MGED
17:09.34superlinuxi am watching
17:10.12starseekermake skt.s sketch
17:10.16starseekere skt.s
17:10.20starseekersed skt.s
17:10.27superlinuxok
17:10.41starseeker(you'll need to create a .g file - sketch.g or some such)
17:12.01starseekerthat interface lacks usability on any number of fronts
17:12.11superlinuxok
17:12.19superlinuxi'll try my best
17:12.33starseekerso if you want to start improving it as a 2D sketch editor, that might be a good starting point
17:13.19superlinuxnA!
17:13.26superlinuxthat's really bad!
17:13.34starseekeryep
17:13.53superlinuxi was thinking thru the normal mged
17:14.25superlinuxi type "line" and directly i get the prompts similar to autocad's
17:15.01starseekerin BRL-CAD, 2D lines exist only inside individual "sketch" objects
17:15.04superlinuxmaybe i can read the code of sketch and apply them in mged
17:15.29starseekeryou could add a terminal to the sketch editor that supported such commands
17:16.54starseekereventually we might be able to merge a sophisticated edit mode triggered by a make sketch into MGED proper, but for now it's better to work in the specific 2D editor to experiment
17:17.24superlinuxok
17:17.47superlinuxcos what you said last i want to achieve
17:18.08starseekersuperlinux: we'd have to take that up with brlcad
17:18.18starseekerbut proof of concept would help
17:18.33superlinuxhowever in Quick CAD it has the problem of not loading huge files
17:19.11superlinuxand cos I find scripting languages easy, i wanted to do it in brl cad
17:23.34starseekererm... now tkhtml3 is working...
17:23.37starseekerblinks
17:44.03louipcyeah dagnabit. a good sketch editor is #1 on my wishlist. No time to really look into it though :(
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19:03.34*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || #brlcad logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || Release 7.16.2 posted (20091106) .. full binary release!
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21:28.52brlcadhola Nohla !
21:29.13Nohlabrlcad muy buenas tardes!
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21:53.50brlcadwhatcha doing crashing pine ``Erik :)
21:53.51``ErikI've no idea
21:53.51``ErikI was trying to send a mail
21:53.51``Erikand it asploded
21:53.51brlcadbustage
21:53.51``Erikfroze up for a while, then popped to cmd
21:53.51``Erikmay've subconsciously threw a fat vi sequence at it
21:53.51``Erikwaht're you doing not migrating machines, brlcad :)
21:53.51brlcadtrying to get my box empty of urgencies
21:54.14brlcadmailbox
21:54.14brlcaddown to 42!
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21:58.29``Erikquick, explode the earth before word gets out
21:58.59starseekerpulls up Earth model...
21:59.27``Erikin intergalactic_highway.s ...
22:01.39``Eriknice. brlcad, that machine is "host down" :D I ain't walkin' over there to look at it, I did my walk for the day
22:03.19brlcadahh, probably the power outage
22:03.25brlcadnever brought back up
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22:15.53``ErikProblem detected: "Received abort signal(sig=?)".
22:15.53``ErikPine Exiting.
22:16.12``ErikI'm so badass, you can't even hope to grok my signal #'s
22:17.55brlcadexited on signal 6 (core dumped)
22:18.23brlcadsounds like pine manually called abort()
22:18.51``Erikmebbe, backtrace of the core indicates a socket op going screwy in a thread
22:19.34``Erik<-- looks at the shiney fbsd8 box with both pine and mutt O:-)
22:35.44yukonbobis funny to see "shiny" and "pine" in the same sentence.
22:47.23CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36888 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/TODO: Add more detailed notes on some items in Archer TODO - more to come.
22:54.26CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36889 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: Another stab at itk build logic
23:00.04brlcadyour else clause is flawed there.. :)
23:00.16brlcadand should move the result out
23:01.42starseekerhow is the else clause flawed?
23:02.05starseekermoves result...
23:03.16starseekeroh, you mean I don't need to check aquatk at that level?
23:04.17starseekerreally, shouldn't it just be the build agatinst tk?
23:07.02*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78-2-64-60.adsl.net.t-com.hr)
23:09.53docelicHey folks
23:10.01starseekerhowdy
23:11.08docelicWhen's a new release being planned?
23:11.33starseekershould be pretty soon
23:12.49CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36890 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: Move MSG_RESULT out of logic
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23:19.28CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36891 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: Whoops - move one more MSG_RESULT out of logic
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091212

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091212

00:44.58CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36892 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bot/bot.c: prevent bombing if you end up working with an empty bot. don't try to alloc 0 vertices/faces. let the user know, though.
01:10.22brlcaddocelic: trying to get to testing all day today, hopefully tomorrow
01:11.05docelicAh nice, I didn't actually know the release time was nearing, I asked accidentaly :)
01:11.29brlcadour usual schedule is the first week of every month
01:11.32brlcadwe're a few days late
01:25.10CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36893 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: analyze command output formatting needs some TLC. column formatting is screwy and customization would be nice.
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01:29.03brlcadtests bot prep optimization with dubidity
01:36.20CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36894 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: not sure EDITOR will make this iteration given we're no longer down to the wire but late. add note about vls name wrapping before it's forgotten too (for annotations and then some)
01:46.03CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36895 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: honest.
01:46.30*** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (n=Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1)
01:46.46brlcad:)
01:48.27``Erik"see, motorcyclists do it all the time. But human beings do not" hah
01:48.29``Eriktopgear++
01:49.36brlcadcreates a 2.7M test case
01:49.57``Erikof?
01:50.28brlcadbot prep mod
01:50.38``Erikah
01:50.46``Erikum, I have a big one
01:50.57``Erikmore than 2.7m... around 7m triangles...
01:51.05brlcadnot sure I believe what rt is reporting for PREP
01:51.27brlcad2.7 should be good, order bigger than what I was testing
01:51.51``Erik(the facetize_all/allbots script pairing is NOT a good solution for what I need, btw... the failed conversions remain as they were and cause very long fail episodes in my load)
01:51.52brlcadjust four sqrts, but might be insignificant
01:52.23``Erikunfortunately, I wasn't able to get a clean facetization of any nontrivial model in our set...
01:52.35``Erikm35, toyjeep, tankcar, ... even pinewood fail something :(
01:52.41brlcadyep
01:52.59brlcadI ran through all of db a couple years ago and saw that the majority fail
01:53.13``Erikkinda renewed my marching cubes effort a little :/
01:53.16brlcadthat'd be a great project, at least make those all succeed!
01:53.40``Erikoh, even managed straight up crashes in the nmg routines with most of those
01:53.44brlcadI've seen it fail on some pretty simple stuff, has to be bugs
01:53.52``Erikthe, um, roll bar on the toyjeep I think, null pointer
01:53.54brlcadbu_bombs are normal
01:54.07brlcadthere's an error handler set, it's how nmg was written to work
01:54.22brlcadexception-style
01:54.27``Erikheh
01:54.30brlcadyeah
01:54.36``ErikI have a strong feeling I know the 3 assclowns responsible :/
01:54.38brlcadteh SUCK
01:55.28``Erik(should libgcv surrender longjmp as an error handler?)
01:55.37brlcadwell fuck .. this optimization didn't do a damn thing.  boo.
01:55.59brlcadit has to at that level
01:56.06brlcadotherwise it'll crash
01:56.09brlcads/crash/abort/
01:56.25brlcadat least until you mod the nmg code to not throw a bomb
01:56.32brlcadthat's what needs to happen
01:56.38``Erikheh
01:56.44brlcadpropagate error up or set error state or whatever
01:56.54``Erikyeh, return codes are how I'd like to go
01:57.30brlcadI really do think the nmg code could be shored up more solid
01:58.14brlcadit's not had a dev work on it that focuses on robust input checking and condition testing
01:59.12brlcadit's got a good bit of testing, but just not comprehensive
02:00.21brlcadit kind of needs hooks like what indianlarry did for nurbs, effectively yes, no, and "maybe" tolerancing so it knows whether it's really stuck or not
02:01.12``Erikbugstomp in that would be a shweet task for a code wizard looking to start on BRL-CAD development, I'd imagine
02:01.36``Erikre-arch might need more experience iwth the tangle
02:02.37brlcadan experienced coder, yeah
02:02.52brlcaddoesn't need rearch
02:03.01brlcadat least I don't see things like bomb elim as rearch
02:03.20brlcadit implements radial edge with euler, pretty textbook
02:03.40``Erikisn't very familiar with the code *shrug* so it viewing a public header change as a possible rearch grade thing :)
02:05.07brlcadmoving back into libnmg would probably make that a much more tractable task
02:05.20``Erikhrm, $1k for a roll cage, $500 for a roll bar
02:06.17brlcadaha!
02:06.27``Erik?
02:06.30brlcadthere's a damn malloc in the routine I was optimizing that dominates
02:06.34``Erikheh
02:06.38``Erikfinally used a profiler? :>
02:06.44brlcadshut it
02:06.58``Erikwonders if we should have mempool stuff in libbu
02:07.10``Erikmebbe threadpool, too
02:08.33``Eriksonofabitch, docbook screwed the port update
02:08.46``Erikhttp://people.freebsd.org/~amdmi3/brlcad-7.16.2.log :( (worked fine on xeon and core duo)
02:11.47brlcadlooks like out-of-srcdir issue
02:11.59``Erikhm, APACHEFOP not being set, but FOP crap still being built, I think
02:12.32brlcadit's set to ":"
02:12.40``Erikno, that's in srcdir, it's an invalid call to fop
02:12.55brlcadhrm?
02:12.59``ErikI'll msg him and ask if he has java installed
02:13.01brlcadit's complaining about that manpage rename
02:13.07brlcadmanpages are xsltproc
02:13.10brlcadpdf is fop
02:13.13``Erikyeh
02:13.45``Erik'cept that file it's trying to move it to should exist in src? O.o
02:14.01brlcadit did correctly set XSLTPROC to : .. but probably shouldn't have run through those build rules in doc/docbook regardless
02:14.08brlcadthat stuff changed a couple weeks ago
02:14.11brlcadmight not be an issue any more
02:14.21``Erikit's a tinderbox
02:14.22``Erikhrm
02:14.44``Erikknows that there were several things he had to patch in the port to make it compile :/
02:15.01brlcadright, it ran the rule with : so it did nothing.. yet then still wants the file (which is bogus) .. shouldn't have ran the amn rule but the files are probably listed as install files
02:15.18brlcadso the _MAN need to be conditionalized too
02:15.34brlcadalways putting the man down
02:15.46``Erikshoulda used TeX instead of docbook *cough* O:-)
02:15.47brlcadanother fix could be to just make xsltproc a dependency
02:16.03brlcadyeah, tex as a dep is better than xsltproc....right
02:16.47brlcadshould probably make it a dep anyways so the manpages are built/installed
02:16.50``Eriklatex actually works, xsltproc has a bit of a rep for being flakey from 'the day', and bunches of docbook stuff wants java around
02:16.52brlcadthe fix will just make it skip em
02:17.17``Erikroff, mwahaha
02:17.18brlcadjava is just for the pdf stuff (because of fop)
02:17.31``Erikevery xsltproc alternative is written in java, though
02:17.35brlcadxsltproc itself hasn't really caused any headaches
02:17.50brlcadwho cares, we're not using the alternatives :)
02:18.34brlcadapply favorite car analogy, that makes no relevant sense :)
02:18.41``Eriksvn co https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/docs/trunk brlcad-docs
02:18.43``ErikO:-)
02:19.37``Erikwill dork with crap tomorrie, is in relax mode
02:19.39brlcadthat doesn't fix this problem, just punts it to the port for brlcad-docs
02:21.25``Erikgrabs a beer, his guitar and jams out 'daytripper' O.o
02:31.47brlcadOMFG
02:32.14brlcadtri_specific, why dear ghod, oh why .. do you allocate 9 f'ing values on the heap
02:33.16brlcadseriously, even for "optional normals", that's a bit nutty spensive
02:39.00starseeker``Erik: I'll go over that configure logic on Monday and see if I can't make it more robust as far as disabling things
02:39.21starseekerisn't REALLY trying to make ``Erik miserable...
02:41.32brlcadstarseeker: the kicker test is to try without fop and with xsltproc, then without fop and without xsltproc, then with fop and without xsltproc
02:41.54starseekernods
02:41.59brlcadif you mv the binary to go through the four setups, should week out the problems
02:42.36starseekerI was kinda feeling my way when I did most of that - not that I'm fluent now but I think I stand a somewhat better chance of getting things right now
02:44.56starseekerwill try that
02:53.15``Erik:D
02:54.08``Eriktunes that func to allocate one value 9 times for brlcad
02:54.50``Erik<-- installing a base system on a thumbdrive for his arm machine to see if usb boot is reasonably doable
02:57.09brlcadinteresting doc info on the list starseeker
02:57.51brlcadworth a quick peek but the copy and translate would probably still be my naive pick
02:58.23brlcadi presume gabriel isn't here incognito?
02:58.29brlcad~seen gabriel
02:58.32ibotgabriel <n=gabriel@d24-141-18-191.home.cgocable.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #storm, 18d 18h 13m 6s ago, saying: 'the info i added is in the property constructor parameters section'.
02:58.35``Erikponders saying "gettextize" and running like hell
02:59.03brlcadyeah, each paragraph becomes a gettext phrase
02:59.20brlcadtens of thousands of gettext lines...
02:59.21``Erikevery C string
02:59.35``Erikmany needing to be redone some
02:59.42brlcadtaking 100x longer to compile all the docs than it takes the sources!
02:59.51``Erikwell
02:59.56brlcadah yeah, the C strings would be cool
02:59.57``ErikI was thinking the sources, not the docs...
03:00.08brlcadyeah, I was (jokingly) talking about the docs
03:00.21``Erikhow would the tcl strings interface?
03:02.01brlcadtcl has it's own l10n and i18n features
03:02.17brlcadparticularly, message catalogs for translations iirc
03:02.47``Erik3 months to make all the source work it, then 2 months for each translation *shudder*
03:03.42``Erik1979: <dude1> dude, what if someone wants this in a language other than english? <dude2> uh... whu? BWAHAHAHAHA
03:03.45``ErikO:-)
03:04.39brlcadbasically feed it inputs files like gettext, then after you load a locale: replace 'puts "hello"' with 'puts [::msgcat::mc "hello"]'
03:04.40``Erikeven in a toy app, gettext is a royal pain
03:04.41brlcadtcl doesn't use gettext, they do their own thing
03:04.56brlcadall build in that msgcat package
03:05.15brlcadtcl would probably be easier than the C side actually
03:05.59``Erikone of my kittens is attempting to climb up my pants leg O.o if it weren't for the pointy bits, it'd be cut (until the knee, then it'd be weird)
03:06.02``Erikcute
03:07.07brlcaduntil it's a little higher still, then no longer cute or weird
03:07.43``Eriknah, at the knee. O:-)
03:09.07``Erikmakes a bot, g2asc's it, then gdb breaks the asc2g to figure out the effin' call path
03:09.09starseekerbrlcad: yeah, saw that email - I'm thinking copy and translate too
03:09.44brlcadshould respond to him on the downsides of the other options
03:10.16``Erikwell, eff, I broke things
03:10.21starseekerbrlcad: probably, but they all boil down (to me) of "not enough of an issue yet to justify more machinery "
03:10.46starseekerwe're still shaking down the stuipd-simple method, nevermind adding more tools into the mix
03:10.57starseekerflips up the email again
03:14.29brlcadthat's a fair response :)
03:14.58brlcadunless he wants to help work on something more robuse ;)
03:15.33starseekerI'm also a bit dubious as to why poxml is easier for translaters than straight up xml...
03:15.54starseekerNohla seems to have done just fine working within the existing xml tags :-)
03:17.06brlcadyep
03:17.16brlcadi think his argument was more about maintenance
03:17.34brlcadsay we need to update/fix the english tutorial .. what to do about 20 translations
03:17.49brlcadbecomes rather free-for-all
03:18.09starseekertrue, but the translations still have to happen regardless of what the surrounding markup is
03:19.13brlcadright, but I gathered the other tools implicitly involve some sort of awareness of the other languages, so the differences are more evident
03:19.20starseekerwonders why a script checking svn status on changes since last release tag for english doc files couldn't be used to flag the other language versions as "need work"
03:19.40brlcadthat's basically his second option, no? :)
03:19.51brlcadthe CON isn't a biggie
03:20.21starseekeryes, except we don't introduce any markup - just a "tell me which english xml files changed over this interval" report
03:22.09starseekeronly think I can see MAYBE getting fancy with is something that adds a warning to the translated output that it's out of date if there is a change to the english version and no corresponding change to the translated file
03:29.58CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36896 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bot/g_bot_include.c:
03:29.58CIA-41BRL-CAD: well, screw me. no savings on eliminating four sqrt() calls due to an egregious
03:29.58CIA-41BRL-CAD: number of malloc calls (two per bot face) to allocate a tri_specific and space
03:29.58CIA-41BRL-CAD: for normals. holy flying bat crap. tri_specific's interface needs to be
03:29.59CIA-41BRL-CAD: improved. made prep use the caller's tolerance instead of magic numbers.
03:31.24brlcadI could see there be some value to doing something like gettext style substitutions as a prep step so some translated phrases are consistently managed
03:31.45brlcadlike "Shift Grips"
03:32.00brlcadinstead of the variety of ways that could get translated in one file alone
03:32.12starseekeryeah, it has some merits
03:32.23starseekeris reading up on xliff...
03:33.12starseekerarrrgh - what is it with xml folks and java...
03:33.17``Eriktries to figure out a good VCS for a windows using non-programmer :/
03:33.34``Erikxml is for java, java does xml... no SANE person would use xml... :D
03:34.07``Erikponder; <alpha><beta gamma=0></beta></alpha>
03:34.08``Erikreally?
03:34.15``Erik(alpha (beta (gamma 0))
03:34.16``Erik)
03:34.38``Erik'(alpha (beta (gamma 0))) and ya don't even need to write code to deal O:-)
03:37.21``Eriknotes that the network protocol for isst has been mostly ascii-ized and seems to be immediately readable scheme/lisp *cough* O:-)
03:38.21brlcadruns some quick calculations
03:39.34``Erikwe should get a decently ugly bot only model so I can do an rt vs libtie comparison and see if it's worth pursuing.
03:40.21brlcadheh, nice
03:40.38``Erik? how much did you beef up bot?
03:40.39brlcadwe presently have 204k lines of documentation in svn
03:40.44``Erikah
03:41.31brlcadI have a couple bot-only models
03:41.57brlcadrun anything through g-stl and you can too!
03:42.17``Erikheh
03:42.26brlcad1.2M words of docs (includes m4 markup and xml tags)
03:42.28``Erikprovided g-stl happens to work *cough*
03:44.10``Erikmore interested in a 'worst case' difference type set
03:44.17``Erikcorrectness #'s
03:44.43brlcadthat's roughly 4000 to 6000 *pages* of documentation
03:44.55brlcadwow
03:46.04brlcadassuming markup is substantial, which I can't imagine being even 50%, that's still 2000-3000 pages
03:46.35brlcadNohla: you got about 4 pages done, right? :)
03:47.49CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36897 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: tri_specific suck. make better.
03:48.06Nohlaon pdf are 9,1 pages
03:49.00Nohlacounting images
03:49.03brlcad:)
03:49.14brlcadso yeah, about 4 pages of text :)
03:50.26Nohla5, but 5 is about 4 pages too :)
03:51.46brlcadtherein lies the importance of working on the documentation subsystem.. it's not that we don't have documentation, we have lots of documentation but it's inconsistently managed, inaccessible to new users, not readily searchable, not online, and not organized/categorized
03:52.00brlcadjust to name a few faults :)
03:52.19brlcaddamn I didn't realize there was that much documentation checked in
03:52.30brlcadmm.. lemme eliminate the old mail and recount
03:54.26Nohlaprogram has no a searching tool for helping?
03:54.28brlcaddrops about 500-700 off the count
03:54.49brlcadNohla: not entirely true, there are some search facilities
03:54.53Nohlabrlcad sorry, I've never display it yet :(
03:54.55brlcadthey're just not "great", they're okay
03:55.29brlcadthere's the built-in search facilities of 'man' and apropos for the manual pages
03:55.58brlcadthere is pdf and html searching capabilities for the web content, but they're not presently synchronized with the website
03:56.10brlcad(but should be soon)
04:01.53brlcadstarseeker, make clean fails in doc/docbook :)
04:01.56brlcadtee hee
04:03.33Nohlastarseeker reminds me to "The little prince" :)
04:04.31Nohlaoh how Scandinavian of you XD
04:11.20Nohlagood night people, as you see, I need a snap at least :)
04:11.51starseekerbrlcad: auuugh
04:12.14starseekerNohla: night - when you have time I need to explain how to build spanish docs
04:12.15brlcadNohla: haha, kinda acts like him sometimes too
04:12.35starseekerprobably doesn't want to know...
04:12.46brlcadyou've not read the little prince?
04:12.54starseekershakes head
04:12.56brlcadgreat book
04:12.56starseekernope
04:13.07brlcadNohla: buenas noches!
04:13.23brlcadit's a kids book for adults
04:13.36starseekerchecks with the all-knowing google...
04:13.45``Erikheh
04:13.53``Erikbrlcad won't quit jabbering about it
04:14.06brlcadwhat you talking about?
04:14.13brlcadhaven't said anything about that in years
04:14.15``Erikfrankly, I'd rather grab a copy of 'the prince' than 'the little prince'
04:14.22``Erikyeah, you jabbered about it just a few years ago!
04:14.26``Erikconstant, I tell ya!
04:14.34brlcadheh
04:14.38``Erikyou were talking loads about it to rain I think
04:14.42``Eriksaying it needs to be read in spanish
04:15.06Nohlastarseeker you couldn't be so sweet as little prince!, I hope you not to use that nick for a technical reason as a telescope, Isn't it?
04:16.48``Eriknohla: starseeker delved deep into the land of car and cdr, begun to see the fundamental fabric of the universe, but couldn't become one... so he started seeking to become once with the essense O:-)
04:17.14brlcadyou even lost me on that one
04:17.35``Erikhttp://xkcd.com/224/
04:17.54``Erik(he commits a .pl tomorrow...)
04:17.57starseekeryou know, I think I may have read that when I was very very young...
04:18.58Nohlastarseeker, before to learn reading? XD
04:19.08starseekerprobably
04:19.25starseekerthe picture of the kid on a small rock rings some kind of bell
04:20.07starseekerNohla: want to build your html and pdf documentation using BRL-CAD's make system instead of the long commands?
04:21.48Nohlastarseeker I'm too tired to do it succesfully right now, but I'll be glad you help me tomorrow, maybe
04:22.06starseekerNohla: sounds good :-) Hopefully it will make things easier for you
04:22.09``Erikis this next release going to be an internal distribution?
04:22.31Nohlaanyway, good is to learn differents way to the same place :)
04:22.33starseeker``Erik: I don't think so
04:22.38``Erikfekc
04:23.06starseekerNohla: you have seen the "by hand" way - make will do that for you automatically, but you will understand what it is doing
04:23.13starseekerwhich is a good thing :-)
04:24.24brlcadstarseeker: where are the Vol II apendices in the repo?
04:24.38starseekerthey aren't
04:24.46starseekerthat's what janine was turning into individual docbook files
04:24.50starseekerfor man pages
04:25.08brlcad``Erik: more time to fix shelling :)
04:25.14brlcadah, k
04:25.37``Erikshelling is a lesser concern for me atm
04:26.33``Erikhuzzah, 7.16.2 got the local herpes treatment, I can pass out gtk binaries
04:27.26starseekerdoesn't understand that but feels vaguely insulted
04:27.42starseeker``Erik: awesome xkcd cartoon :-)
04:29.08Nohla:)
04:29.38``Erikstarseeker: 14 months of "yeah, we're past deadline, but next release, honest!", flak left and right, september or so it went from being fixing stuff to waiting for distributino...
04:29.54starseekerah
04:29.57``Erikso on monday, I can FINALLY redeem myself
04:30.00starseekerheeh
04:30.26``Erikthis is the shit, uh,
04:32.25``Erikneeds to learn to not blink *sigh*
04:32.40``Erikor mebbe figure out how to get on the mailing list for distro
04:38.24brlcadsends out the summary stats to the list
04:39.17``Erikbwahahahaha, a little fast running and the cats wig out :D
04:42.26starseekeris dissapointed - xkcd has no poster version of the lotr chart
04:44.34``ErikI thought they had an svg
04:44.41``Erikemail him
04:48.22CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36898 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/load.c: quell silly warnings.
04:48.30CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36899 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/adrt_struct.h: fake a size
04:48.53CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36900 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/librender/render_internal.h: prepare to make this an assoc!
04:52.28starseekerlol:  https://graphics.stanford.edu/wikis/cs448b-09-fall/FP-OgievetskyVadim
04:52.55starseekerdoesn't have the orc dwindling ability, but that's still awesome...
04:54.31starseekeryeah, more I look he's got only a couple of the dimensions
04:54.58starseekerstill, a class project based off of an xkcd cartoon...
04:55.25brlcadthat's fantastic
04:55.33brlcadsends his summary to the mailing list
04:55.42brlcadiiiinteresting stats on the docs
04:55.48brlcadputs things into perspective even more
04:56.14starseekerwaits for gmail to get the word...
04:57.52brlcadso need to get that organized.. so much effort underutilized, and that's not even counting the papers, reports, symposium papers, posters, diagrams, cards, and presentations that aren't even checked in
04:59.27brlcadgotta get round-trip web editing with the docbook backend working so we can make it all searchable, organized, and accessible
05:01.48brlcadthinks erik should make adrt compile strict
05:02.09``Erikheh, tried
05:02.12``Erikvarargs macros
05:02.20``Erikthe tie0 vs tie1 hack
05:04.30``Erikoutside of that, it's actually fiarly close
05:05.15``Erik<-- sets -W -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic on his personal projects up front, has a lint line he typically uses as well, creeped into a couple bits of BRL-CAD
05:05.58``Erikadrt, even :D
05:07.07brlcadfound out that -ansi and -std=c99 actually conflict in some instances, that can't really quell both without testing compliance version
05:07.22starseekeroh, that's fun
05:09.25``Eriksrc/adrt/Makefile.am line 119.. learn the hurt.
05:12.48``Eriklooks like I got that certain hair up my ass in november of 2000
05:13.17``Erik(what were YOU doing in nov 07, 2000?)
05:16.36brlcadI could probably figure that out
05:17.29``Erikit's trivial, but carried
05:18.38``Erikpart of my religion over 9 yrs ago :(
05:19.23``Erikbased off of annotate... iirc, it was called clint before splint
05:22.28brlcadlint used to give so many false positives
05:22.41brlcadgcc at least performs most of the lintisms (and then some) now
05:22.45``Erikused to? it doesn't anymore?
05:22.49brlcadheh
05:23.07brlcadi'm looking forward to seeing our coverity report
05:23.32``Erikbe interesting.. I used lint heavily and expected many false hits... but did it anyways
05:23.44brlcadespecially now that several core dirs are "clean" .. should make the reports be minimized to actual bugs and not just quellage making things explicit
05:23.44``Erikdon't think I ever made a single project fully lint clean
05:24.06``Erikbut it opened my eyes to a lot of possibilities
05:24.12``Erikmade me think before saying aye or nay
05:24.15brlcadI almost made hello world clean once
05:24.32brlcadhits the road
05:24.48``Erikthe value is in making you think, imho
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15:43.52``Erikoohhhh, todays cyanide and happiness is harsh http://www.explosm.net//comics
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19:22.56superlinuxhello guys
19:25.37superlinuxstarseeker, i started reading the sketch script. the code is not really well commented. and the lines of code count is over the 2200 lines. so it's huge!
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091213

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091213

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23:20.15brlcadibot: memo for superlinux are you more interested in writing in Tcl or in C -- if C, suggest starting in src/proc-db; if Tcl, suggest writing a new pattern tool using the 'clone' command
23:20.15ibotbrlcad: okay
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091214

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091214

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02:01.20starseekeroh, ibot - oops
02:01.35starseekerno wonder that didn't work when I tried it
04:29.50CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36901 10/rt^3/trunk/src/tests/GeometryServiceTest.cxx: flesh out the next two tests, expanding the stubs for adding, getting, putting, updating, and deleting objects as well as getting and setting attributes.
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04:32.45brlcadthere's ibot and there's the memoserv
04:33.06brlcadthe bot only buffers up one message, memoserv takes unlimited
04:33.10brlcadeasy to miss messages from either
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11:31.05d-lomernin all.
14:24.45starseekertakes a deep breath and attacks the xsltproc/fop build logic
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14:57.11CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36902 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/Makefile.am: Conditionalize the BUILT_SOURCES definitions on BUILD_DOCS.
15:13.00starseekerer, duh - note to self, remove config cache before re-running configure after a system change...
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15:26.48starseekertested with fop, without xsltproc - didn't attempt to build docbook
16:03.54starseeker``Erik: it's checking out here for docbook build
16:05.34starseeker``Erik: mind testing to see if you can bust it again?
16:09.26``Erikum, wasn't my test that caused it, and was the 7.16.2 tarball
16:09.38``Erikone of the things I plan on doing today is attempting to replicate the breakage
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19:40.41starseekerand ``Erik followed the logic changes - the docbook issue should indeed be fixed in svn and is present in 7.16.2
20:32.35CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36903 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/dm-tk.c: Limit the 'off' part of tk_fb_open to the actual non-working part, make it easier to switch on and off.
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21:38.56CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36904 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/ (if_TEMPLATE.c if_X.c): Reorder if_X to avoid forward declarations.
21:43.36starseekerwonders who's still using the 4d, ab, adage, ap, rat, sgi, sgiw, sun, ts, or ug framebuffer code - seems to me like a major cleanup and purge of obsolete devices may be in order here...
21:55.42``Eriknooooooo, not my vector display! heh
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23:49.52CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36905 10/brlcad/trunk/ (20 files in 2 dirs):
23:49.52CIA-41BRL-CAD: Time to start scrubbing and polishing libfb. As a first cut, remove a lot of
23:49.53CIA-41BRL-CAD: specialized code for old devices - these days we're looking at X11, WGL, OGL and
23:49.53CIA-41BRL-CAD: Tk. Doing this as one commit so it's easy to revert if needed, but many of
23:49.53CIA-41BRL-CAD: these files were already EXTRA_DIST anyway and it's hard to conceive of a
23:49.55CIA-41BRL-CAD: scenario where the work to maintain and update them will be justified.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091215

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091215

00:01.12CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36906 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/ (6 files): Get rid of forward declarations
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00:01.59starseeker``Erik: any idea why the X and X24 framebuffers are both present?
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00:07.22starseekerfrom what I can see, if_X24 supercedes if_X
00:31.38``Erikhas no idea
00:33.03Nohlahola :)
00:40.18starseekerhola :-)
00:40.46starseekerNohla: ready to build spanish documentation with make?
00:49.02Nohlajust if your patient is ready too :)
00:49.13starseekerNohla: it's easy
00:49.22starseekeryou have your svn checkout of brlcad?
00:49.29Nohlayes
00:49.39starseekerok.  cd into the top level
00:49.45CIA-41BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36907 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (8 files in 5 dirs): First man3 man page in docbook - add man3 to the system directory and make a new rule to generate .3 man pages.
00:49.52starseekerNohla: then run svn update
00:50.37Nohlawow! easy...
00:50.54starseekerNohla: are you seeing things downloading?
00:51.18Nohlastarseeker no, I wanted to say: slower :)
00:51.39starseekerNohla: you are in your brlcad directory?
00:51.43Nohla<PROTECTED>
00:51.55starseekerNohla: that's a commit message
00:52.01starseekerNohla: not an instruction
00:52.14NohlaI know
00:52.18starseekerIf you see a message from CIA-41, it is announcing a change to the source code
00:52.24Nohlajust I didn't undarstand
00:52.38starseekerNohla: type "svn update" in your brlcad directory
00:53.29Nohlawait, I shouldn't do that
00:53.37starseekerwhy?
00:53.59Nohlalook, the other day, by error, I changed the second tutorial but in /en dir
00:54.19NohlaThe begining is in spanish there too
00:54.37starseekerNohla: oh.  OK.  just in case, copy those files to your home directory
00:56.31Nohlastarseeker can you explain me what I did with svn update?
00:56.41Nohlajust to be shure :P
00:56.54starseekeryou will be updating your source code tree to include the latest changes
00:57.15starseekerI have altered the build system to allow for building Spanish documentation - you need those changes
00:58.49starseekerNohla: have you copied important files to your home directory?
00:59.46Nohlastarseeker could you wait for me about 10 minutes?
00:59.50starseekersure
00:59.59Nohlathanks :)
01:03.30``Eriksvn update shouldn't stomp local changes, svn revert is how you do that
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02:02.10starseeker./autogen.sh
02:02.10starseeker./configure --with-lang=ess
02:02.10starseekercd doc/docbook
02:02.11starseekermake
02:02.11starseekersorry - that's ./configure --with-lang=es
02:02.11starseeker(one s)
02:02.11Nohlaand then
02:02.21starseekerNohla: once that works, look at the file doc/docbook/lessons/es/Makefile.am and see where the xml file is listed
02:02.41starseekeryou will have built lesson1 as html and pdf
02:02.51starseekerthe next step is to add your new file
02:03.09starseekerfor an example look at doc/docbook/lessons/en/Makefile.am
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02:16.34Nohla:) in the hipoteticall case it exists
02:16.34starseekerNohla: right :-)
02:16.34Nohlastarseeker thanks again
02:16.34starseekerNohla: once you are comfortable with this method, it will be MUCH easier than running conversions manually
02:16.34starseekerde nada :-)
02:16.34starseekerthank you!
02:16.34Nohlawhat means "running conversions manually"?
02:16.34Nohlathe expression
02:16.34starseekerNohla: the long commands for creating html
02:16.34starseekerand pdf
02:17.23starseekerthe way you made html and pdf the first time :-)
02:17.23NohlaXML_CATALOG_FILES= blablabla ?
02:17.34starseekeryes
02:17.59Nohlawell, It was a more graphical way :)
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04:03.39NohlaThe BRL-CAD build system is now prepared.  To build here, run:
04:03.39Nohla<PROTECTED>
04:03.39Nohla<PROTECTED>
04:03.39brlcadthat's a yes :) .. though the Makefile.am error is probably a mistake in something starseeker did recently
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04:28.19starseekerlicense even works
04:28.19brlcadactually, they sound like a tiny dependency -- if it gives full fb services, just as good as tk if not better
04:28.19brlcadif their code and interface is actually clean and useful, could be a good leverage, just depends
04:28.19starseekernods
04:28.19starseekerhey ``Errrriikkk, more C++ code... :-P
04:28.19brlcad"sounds good" .. but it's easy to write something that sounds good
04:28.19starseekernods
04:28.19Nohlauff tell that to pastebin :)
04:28.19brlcadcould try writing an fb interface with that behind it
04:28.19starseekerapparently they're using it for some commercial screen capture app...
04:28.19brlcadoooooh, Nohla is it saying it's too much?
04:28.19brlcadconfig.log is super-long
04:28.28brlcadftp it to brlcad.org/pub/incoming
04:29.14Nohlabrlcad ?
04:29.37Nohlasorry if I was unpolite, that was not the intention
04:30.05starseekerNohla: you're fine - he is suggesting to use an ftp client to send the file to ftp://brlcad.org/pub/incoming
04:30.05Nohlaeverithing is working ban with my notebook tonight
04:30.20Nohlas/ban/bad
04:30.32starseekerbrlcad: Ah, ScreenJot:  http://www.liquidthought.com/
04:30.45brlcader, just /incoming, not /pub/incoming
04:31.11brlcadftp://brlcad.org/incoming
04:31.28starseekerdon't think they explicitly say they use pxcore, but this context suggests it:  http://www.liquidthought.com/blog/2009/07/pxcore-13-released.html
04:31.43brlcadyeah, I saw that
04:32.43starseekerwill poke at it once he gets a better feel for libfb as it currently exists
04:33.13brlcadtk would still probably be easier given the code is 80% done already ;)
04:33.25starseekernods - yes, that's the plan
04:33.50starseeker(once I can get it to do something without having mged crash on initialization when I enable it...)
04:34.17brlcadassuming it's not just because I left mged in a busted state dm-wise
04:34.33starseekerpxcore might give performance beyond Tk, if it matters, but performance is secondary to "Work without X on OSX" atm ;-)
04:34.55starseekerbrlcad: I don't think so - at least, when I disable the tk framebuffer things seem OK
04:35.12brlcadah, with the tk dm, sure
04:35.16brlcadI mean the X dm
04:35.20starseekeroh :-)
04:36.07brlcadworking on that tonight/tomorrow
04:36.46Nohlabrlcad sorry, log is too long
04:36.55Nohlado you need it yet?
04:37.06brlcadof course :)
04:37.15brlcadNohla: it's not too long for ftp
04:38.29brlcadmozilla/firefox creates read-only connections by default -- use command-line:  ftp brlcad.org
04:38.32brlcadcd incoming
04:38.35brlcadput config.log
04:38.44brlcadquit
04:38.44brlcad:)
04:41.25Nohlafirst it say only anonymous ftp are allowed, but after that ask me to login with user and pass
04:42.08brlcadnever used ftp before I see..just put anything in for password, user is anonymous
04:42.31brlcadeven nothing for password
04:43.28Nohlaaaaah It's kidding me :)
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04:56.47Nohlajust wait for me a moment
04:56.47brlcadwaits patiently
04:56.47juantelezjaja
04:56.47Nohlajuantelez sos un idiota
04:56.47brlcadjeje
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05:15.40Nohlabrlcad can you see it?
05:20.29Nohlastarseeker brlcad are you there?
05:22.44starseekerhere
05:22.51starseekerI see it
05:24.50starseekerhmm - odd
05:25.10starseekerwhat's the last message you got from configure on the terminal before it exited?
05:26.47Nohlastarseeker I've sent it by email too
05:30.53brlcadNohla: yep! you got it
05:30.58brlcadwhat was the problem?
05:31.22Nohlabrlcad where, by ftp?
05:31.42Nohla# /incoming/config.log??
05:32.16brlcadby ftp
05:32.26starseekerapparently there is no Makefile in doc/docbook
05:32.42brlcadNohla: what changed that it finally worked?
05:32.45brlcad(ftp)
05:32.52starseekerhrm...
05:33.59Nohlabrlcad me?
05:34.15brlcadNohla: yes, you :)
05:34.51brlcadNohla: cuando hiciste el ftp las primera veces, no funciono' .. que cambio?
05:35.13Nohlainstale gftp
05:35.31Nohlay me quit? el enojo :P
05:35.35brlcadheh, okay
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05:47.20brlcadahh, interesting.. her configure failure is due to the recent change trying to get aquatk working better
05:47.35brlcadno longer just 'yes', it did the test for X11 and AquaTk.. and came up with nothing for her so instead of a compile-time failure, it fell through into the "use system tk" case and failed
05:47.45brlcadahh, system tk case needs more logic now (in case it's a non-x11/non-tk build)
05:48.52Nohlabrlcad are you talking with me?
05:50.14NohlaI'm fixing my friendship with juantelez yet :P
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06:07.58CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36909 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/README: document what the various manual page sections actually mean
06:08.09brlcadNohla: no, just commenting about your configure failure
06:09.17Nohlabrlcad did you find the problem?
06:10.07brlcadyeah, the problem is you're missing some pieces that are expected in order to compile
06:10.25brlcaddeveloper header files
06:11.17Nohla...
06:11.41brlcadbasically, what starseeker mentioned you should install -- xorg-dev, bison, and flex for starters
06:11.47Nohlatoo late to tray to guess
06:12.09NohlaI've done when he said that
06:12.27brlcadthen you should be able to run ./configure again
06:12.32brlcadsee if it succeeds
06:12.48brlcadrm *cache*
06:12.58brlcad(before configure)
06:13.14Nohla<PROTECTED>
06:13.30brlcadthat removes a temporary cache file that configure generates
06:14.20brlcadit uses the cache file instead of retrying a test when it can
06:15.07brlcadsince you installed new things, it's a good idea to delete the cache file and run configure cleanly
06:16.02brlcadalternative is to just run sh autogen.sh again (and it will delete the cache too)
06:19.13Nohlaworking as you expected
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06:31.26Nohlabrlcad: wow, and working a lot
06:33.05Nohlawell, leave it working, good night or whatever :)
06:44.43brlcadhasta luego!
06:49.33Nohlabrlcad I'll let you working too
06:49.34Nohlamake[2]: *** [fbserv] Error 1
06:49.35Nohlamake[2]: se sale del directorio `/home/jesica/Desktop/brlcad/src/fbserv'
06:49.35Nohlamake[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
06:49.35Nohlamake[1]: se sale del directorio `/home/jesica/Desktop/brlcad/src'
06:49.35Nohlamake: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
06:50.26Nohlabefore:
06:50.26Nohlamake[3]: se sale del directorio `/home/jesica/Desktop/brlcad/src/conv'
06:50.27Nohlamake[2]: se sale del directorio `/home/jesica/Desktop/brlcad/src/conv'
06:50.27NohlaMaking all in fbserv
06:53.16brlcadneed what preceeded that
06:53.25brlcadbefore the Error 1
06:53.57Nohlayou won't let me sleep, no? :)
06:54.21brlcadheh, :)
06:54.40brlcadyou can sleep, we can continue later today/tomorrow/whenever :)
06:55.37Nohladeps/walk_example.Tpo -c -o walk_example.o walk_example.c
06:55.37Nohlamv -f .deps/walk_example.Tpo .deps/walk_example.Po
06:55.37Nohla/bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --tag=CC  --silent --mode=link gcc  -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g  -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -o walk_example walk_example.o ../../src/librt/librt.la
06:55.37Nohlamake[3]: se sale del directorio `/home/jesica/Desktop/brlcad/src/conv'
06:55.37Nohlamake[2]: se sale del directorio `/home/jesica/Desktop/brlcad/src/conv'
06:55.39NohlaMaking all in fbserv
06:55.41Nohlamake[2]: se ingresa al directorio `/home/jesica/Desktop/brlcad/src/fbserv'
06:55.43Nohlagcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../../include  -I../../src/other/tcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/unix -I/usr/local/include -DBRLCADBUILD=1 -I../../include -I../../src/other/openNURBS   -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -MT fbserv.o -MD -MP -MF .deps/fbserv.Tpo -c -o fbserv.o fbserv.c
06:55.47Nohlamv -f .deps/fbserv.Tpo .deps/fbserv.Po
06:55.49Nohlagcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../../include  -I../../src/other/tcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/unix -I/usr/local/include -DBRLCADBUILD=1 -I../../include -I../../src/other/openNURBS   -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -MT server.o -MD -MP -MF .deps/server.Tpo -c -o server.o server.c
06:55.53Nohlamv -f .deps/server.Tpo .deps/server.Po
06:55.55Nohla/bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --tag=CC  --silent --mode=link gcc  -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g  -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -o fbserv fbserv.o server.o ../../src/libfb/libfb.la
06:55.59Nohla../../src/libfb/.libs/libfb.so: undefined reference to `yIMG2SCR'
06:56.03Nohla../../src/libfb/.libs/libfb.so: undefined reference to `xIMG2SCR'
06:56.05Nohlacollect2: ld returned 1 exit status
06:56.07Nohlamake[2]: *** [fbserv] Error 1
06:56.09Nohlamake[2]: se sale del directorio `/home/jesica/Desktop/brlcad/src/fbserv'
06:56.11Nohlamake[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
06:56.13Nohlamake[1]: se sale del directorio `/home/jesica/Desktop/brlcad/src'
06:56.15Nohlamake: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
06:56.17Nohlaif it isn't enought, se continue another day
06:56.21brlcadhuh, that looks like starseeker's doing :)
06:56.23Nohlas/se/we
06:56.41Nohlawake him up :)
06:56.49brlcadhe apparently broke the compile earlier today :)
06:57.05brlcadthat is enough
06:57.35Nohlawell, good morning :(
06:57.44Nohlas/:(/:)
06:57.53Nohlao sea: :)
06:58.10brlcadthat fixes it
06:58.15Nohlagracias de nuevo, contribu?s a mi buen humor
06:58.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36910 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_X.c: the defines must come before the usages or there will be undefined references in the resultant library.
06:58.20brlcad:)
06:58.28brlcadsvn up src/libfb
06:58.33brlcadmake
06:59.56brlcadNohla: gracias por vos paciencia ;)
07:00.25Nohlammm, me falt? la paciencia por un momento hoy, por eso precis? mas de la de ustedes :)
07:02.39brlcadsi no entendiste, el CIA-38 "commit" alli se arreglo' el compile, ya va continuar mas
07:03.25brlcadhas tenido mucha paciencia
07:03.34brlcadgoes both ways, thanks
07:12.21CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36911 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac:
07:12.21CIA-38BRL-CAD: refactor the Tk compilation testing to allow Tk to auto-disable if there isn't a
07:12.21CIA-38BRL-CAD: suitable X11/AquaTk or other subsystem available to build tk ourselves and there
07:12.21CIA-38BRL-CAD: isn't a suitable system library that seems to work right. this should let Tk be
07:12.21CIA-38BRL-CAD: optional at least during configure time (compile may still have some
07:12.22CIA-38BRL-CAD: assumptions) and will make it blather a strong message with delay if MGED's Tk
07:12.24CIA-38BRL-CAD: GUI is getting turned off.
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12:57.22starseekerbrlcad: ooops, sorry about that
12:59.49starseekermusta had some stale files hanging around
13:04.28starseekerreally, all Nohla needed for translation was to build doc/docbook...
13:04.28starseekerah well, good experience
13:04.51louipcdocbook toolchain not playing nice?
13:05.06starseekerlouipc: actually that's behaving reasonably well
13:05.34starseekerour Spanish translater is being tutored in setting up a svn BRL-CAD build
13:06.21starseekerlot to take in from a cold standing start, and some stuff I've been doing elsewhere didn't build out of box on her setup (my fault)
13:06.30louipccool
13:07.09starseekerthe minimum for what she is doing is to be able to run make in doc/docbook, but of course it's better for her to have the full setup
13:07.21louipcI need to get dockbook sgml working properly on my system
13:07.23starseekerparticularly if any screenshots need to be localized
13:07.38starseekeractually we're using xml, not sgml :-)
13:07.55louipcI know, but there's some other projects that use sgml
13:08.02starseekerah, true
13:08.51starseeker'nother few years, I'm hoping a solid Docbook toolchain will be standard on most Linux distros, but it doesn't quite seem to be there yet
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13:09.13louipcyeah
13:09.20louipcit seems too fragmented
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14:29.12starseekerhmm:  http://blog.ostp.gov/2009/12/09/ostp-to-launch-public-forum-on-how-best-to-make-federally-funded-research-available-for-free/
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15:46.25CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r36912 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: Added region id and air code to the output buffer
15:53.24brlcadhttp://johnmacphail.com/2009/12/send-in-the-autocad-clone/
15:56.31starseekerbrlcad: heh, cool
15:56.48starseekernot sure I'd agree "very little" has happened with BRL-CAD though ;-)
16:00.29brlcadquite true
16:00.49brlcadI don't think he means to brl-cad directly, more the commmunity adopting it
16:01.34louipcdepends on your perspective too
16:01.59louipcthere's tons of development, but little that would seem to attract most CAD users
16:03.08brlcadright
16:03.18louipcor what has been developed isn't pushed to the forefront
16:03.20brlcadand that's what I'd call the "expectation chasm"
16:03.27louipcg3d, archer
16:04.13brlcadthere's a disjoint understanding between wanting a particular feature and realizing what has to happen within the system to make that happen, the level of effort and fundamental capabilities that are required
16:05.15brlcadand not just on the order of "oh that should take a few months" and being wrong a few months .. it's features that generally take several years of effort, taken for granted because of the magnitude of effort that goes into the big commercial systems
16:06.45brlcadnot to mention not having a solid understanding (pun intended) on the differences between drafting features, boundary representations, CADD vs CAD, solid modeling, explicit vs implicit representations, etc
16:07.13brlcadthey just want a button that generates their hidden line annotated drafting diagrams in pdf format
16:07.54brlcadwith input coming from a myrid of formats and modeling approaches with various representation types
16:16.03starseekerwhich hopefully will be what FreeCAD will be good for until we get there
16:18.52brlcadnah, I still think we'll get there first
16:19.06brlcadit's not just raw output of a diagram, it's the whole workflow
16:19.22brlcadit has to be a system that will read their format (whatever it is) faithfully
16:19.37brlcadit has to represent it fully, process it and repair their mistakes automatically
16:20.15brlcadit has to often anticipate what the modeler wants through conventions made pervasive by other systems
16:20.50brlcadit has to be even easier to use than what they already know because they don't want to invest the time and effort to learn something different
16:21.01brlcadat least those are some of the expectations
16:21.18brlcadfreecad is way farther from most of that than we are
16:24.01starseekernods
16:24.54starseekerbemusedly dreams of the day BRL-CAD will be easier to use than other CAD systems ;-)
16:25.41starseekeralthough I suppose the lack of a $5000+ cover fee counts for a lot of usability
16:26.29louipc5k is the upgrade fee
16:27.15louipcwell... that's for like a 3rd tier CAD/CAM system
16:28.03starseekererm... ow...
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19:05.24starseekerhrm - bwish isn't installed??
19:05.52starseekeroh
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19:49.14starseekerhmm, that's worth noting - Tk 8.6 is using Cocoa, not carbon
19:49.30starseekershould make for some entertaining testing...
19:51.35CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36916 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Switch some WITH_X11 toggles to WITH_TK toggles
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20:59.49CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36917 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mouse.tcl: Ah HAH - move windows out from under the top level toolbar on OSX when place_near_mouse is being called.
21:35.16CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36918 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/archer: Make sure Archer doesn't start up under the OSX menubar - need to figure out best behavior on startup generally for window placement, but this will keep Archer out of trouble on OSX for now.
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22:06.41*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || #brlcad logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || Release 7.16.2 posted (20091106) .. full binary release!
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23:29.58starseekermakes a note to figure out why png icons suck in Aqua...
23:47.41``Erikicons in what sense, and suck how?
23:49.47starseekerarcher's icon toolbar, and the transparency rendering is messed up
23:49.55starseekerhttp://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/archer_aquatk_aquatheme.png
23:49.55``Erikah *shrug*
23:50.10starseekertries an experiment... if this works Bob will hate me...
23:55.17``Eriktkimg? heh
23:58.11starseekernot sure if we want to do that... but worth a try to see if it fixes something
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091216

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091216

00:07.51starseekeris agast at the full size of tkimg...
00:10.08starseekeraaaand, that's moderately worse
00:10.13starseekeralrightie then
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01:05.32starseekerhey Nohla :-)
01:05.42Nohlastarseeker hi
01:06.25NohlaI was working with eyes closed today :P
01:08.24starseekerheh
01:08.39starseekerdid your build succeed?
01:12.14NohlaI think so
01:12.18Nohlabrlcad helped me
01:12.25starseekerexcellent
01:12.35starseekeryou saw how it built the spanish html and pdf?
01:15.17Nohlastarseeker are you always so active at this hour of the night? :)
01:16.16Nohla(I'm cooking at the same time I aswer you)
01:17.40starseekerusually
01:19.27starseekerI will need to leave for a while, so if you have questions now is the time
01:20.22Nohla:) It's ok for today
01:20.30NohlaI'm hungry :)
01:20.43starseekerok :)
01:20.45Nohlabut thanks
02:39.28brlcadyawns
02:44.17Nohlabrlcad hi
02:45.09brlcadhola Nohla
02:48.36Nohlarecordando el español de nuevo? :)
03:14.33brlcadsolo regresa con uso
03:15.58starseekerbrlcad: I wonder how Bob would react if I yank out the dll/so loader function and do traditional package require in Archer :-)
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04:28.59brlcadstarseeker: if it works, doesn't matter
04:29.11brlcadnot sure they're proper packages
04:29.40brlcaddon't recall there being a pkgIndex.tcl for tkimg, could be wrong
04:38.02brlcadyeah, don't see one -- would have to probably create an init func and the index file at a minimum; basic packaging
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04:58.07CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36919 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bot/ (bot.c g_bot_include.c): quell a slew of verbose compilation warnings about unused params. add sanity checks and unused declarations as needed.
04:59.19CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36920 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/ (brep.cpp brep_debug.cpp brep_debug.h): consolidate the three plot debugging sections into just one. remove bunch of unused code, unbust header, quell warnings.
05:04.05CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36921 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/ (nurb_bound.c nurb_knot.c nurb_util.c): quell verbose compilation warnings, sanity check the resource pointer
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06:17.52starseekerbrlcad: not sure how it would work on Windows
06:18.20starseekeror rather, if our Windows build can do the subconfigure stuff correctly
06:19.27starseekertkhtml3 seems to be the first real attempt to do a "proper" install of a package require library to the in-tree tcl/tk - since that's not working on Windows yet it's kinda unexplored turf
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06:45.53talcitehave any of you guys gotten a chance to take a look at the fedora bugzilla? I've run into snags with tkhtml3 and tkImg integration (one bundles licenses, the other static libs) . Is there any chance that we can get around it from this end?
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13:51.44starseekerblinks - static libs in tkhtml3?
13:51.55starseekeris he talking about how it builds itself?
14:00.12CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Pt6wub5boj19mxd 07http://brlcad.org * r2052 10/wiki/User:Pt6wub5boj19mxd: New page: Say good-by " she said. He frowned slightly. "All right " he said. She made another speech. "I'm not sorry we kissed " she said. "That was sweet. We should have kissed. [http://cialis-...
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15:57.00CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36922 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/cline/cline.c: quell all verbose extra compilation warnings, mostly about unused params. add data validation on those params or mark as unused where appropriate.
15:58.44CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36923 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (metaball/metaball.c superell/superell.c table.c): remove the stubbed in tnurb functions, as they're all about to go away. these can go away even sooner, though, given the unused parameter warnings they cause.
16:00.32CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/delete:
16:00.32CIA-38BRL-CAD: deleted "[[User:Pt6wub5boj19mxd]]": content was: 'Say good-by " she said. He
16:00.32CIA-38BRL-CAD: frowned slightly. "All right " he said. She made another speech. "I'm not
16:00.32CIA-38BRL-CAD: sorry we kissed " she said. "That was sweet. ...' (and the only contributor was
16:00.32CIA-38BRL-CAD: '[[Special:Contributions/Pt6wub5boj19mxd|Pt6wub5boj19mxd]]')
16:00.44CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:Pt6wub5boj19mxd]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled, e-mail blocked): Spamming links to external sites
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16:01.31``Erikuhm
16:05.55``Erikodd
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16:38.41talcitehuh. Got a reply from Toshio at the fedora project.
16:40.16talciteEssentially I need to fix both tkImg and tkHTML before we can get inclusion. So either I rewrite them to use dynamic libs or we remove the dependencies from brlcad
16:43.53starseekerremoving them is a problem
16:44.05starseekerwhat's the trouble with tkhtml3?
16:44.19starseekerhadn't noticed we were building it static...
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16:59.56talcitestarseeker: oops. sorry, didn't see the message. Yes, tkhtml3 includes static libs afaik
17:00.10talciteatleast, their website claims to...
17:01.12starseekertalcite: check src/other/tkhtml3
17:01.35starseekerthey have a static binary of hv3...
17:01.45starseekerI didn't see any separate build of tkhtml3 at all
17:02.44talcitehmm. I'll need to look into it more. Maybe they just meant it doesn't have external dependencies
17:04.07starseekertalcite: were are you getting the tkhtml3 you intend to add to fedora?
17:04.16talcitestarseeker: off the website
17:04.23talcitebrlcad said that there weren't any source changes to it
17:04.48starseekerok, but you're doing JUST tkhtml3 and not hv3 right?
17:04.53starseekerhv3 is more than just tkhtml3
17:04.58talciteso I was just planning on using native sources instead of abstracting it out of our program
17:04.59talciteyes
17:05.17starseekerok... we might have a few build system changes in our tree, I'm not sure
17:05.40talcitewe can do a diff on them. shouldn't be too tough
17:05.43starseekerso when you build tkhtml3, you're getting static results?
17:06.26starseeker'cause here I get libTkhtml3.0.dylib (Mac)
17:06.29talcitestarseeker: no, the website says it's static. I haven't built and checked for it yet
17:06.56starseekertalcite: ok, build it and check :-)
17:06.57talcitestarseeker: I don't mean that tkhtml3 is static itself, it contains static libs within it
17:07.15starseekerI don't know that tkhtml3 contains any libs, just it's own code
17:07.21starseekertkimg is a different matter
17:09.10talcitehmm. Well the website could be out of date or inaccurate. Maybe it was talking about hv3
17:09.54talciteI'm sure that tkimg contains libs within it though. The release notes have a detailed section about them
17:11.03starseekeryes
17:11.04talcitetkimg is the crucial package isnt' it?
17:11.04starseekerI'd bet hv3 is what they're talking about on the website
17:11.05talciteI thought tkhtml could be removed in the past
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17:18.39starseekertalcite: it can be, but you lose html display of man pages in MGED
17:18.52talciteI see
17:19.05starseekertalcite: as for tkimg, I'm working on switching us to tkpng
17:19.30talcitewell tkhtml looks like it doesn't have any static libs right now
17:19.40talciteI need to inspect the makefile, but it looks pretty clean
17:19.44starseekerwe only use a tiny subset of tkimg, so we'll go the smaller, cleaner route (tk 8.6 should actually incorporate tkpng's abilities into the core, so it will go away altogether)
17:19.57talciteahh I see
17:20.24starseekerif you look at our src/other/tkimg it's actually a small subset of the full tkimg
17:21.57talcitetkpng looks pretty cool
17:22.02CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36924 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/archer: If we're doing aqua rendering, go aqua rather than clam for the theme.
17:22.34talcitestarseeker: any idea on when tkpng will be integrated?
17:23.28brlcadtalcite: tkhtml3 doesn't include any 3rd party libs nor does it have any external dependencies except tcl and tk
17:23.45starseekertalcite: should be before the January src release - I've got a test build working but I need to get it to function with a local libz
17:23.48brlcadnot sure what gave you that impression, the sources are pretty simple ..
17:23.58talcitebrlcad: I see. crazy website =/
17:24.07talciteyeah. I just looked through the sources
17:24.33brlcadwe didn't make any source changes, but there were a few (minor) build system tweaks for portability
17:24.48starseekerbrlcad: they talk up hv3 (their big mega-browser-thingy) and have big static builds of that as the main download on the project website (sucks)
17:25.05starseekerthey really need to split that sucker into multiple downloads
17:25.14brlcadand so it'd integrate cleanly with the default automake build rules (e.g., fixing distcheck, distclean, etc)
17:26.21talcitestarseeker: alright. I'll hold off on rebuilding the package till after the january release. tkhtml, Utah, and TNT should keep me busy in the meanwhile
17:27.30brlcadwhat was the issue with tkimg?
17:28.25brlcadour inclusion of tkimg is pretty minimal with no bundled libs, don't recall if we modified it to be that way or if it was originally that way
17:29.00starseekerbrlcad: he would have to make an external tkimg rpm for Fedora
17:29.29starseekerthat would either involve doing tkimg "right" using the main repository, or forking our little subset and making an rpm of IT (which I doubt they would accept)
17:29.59brlcadhe would have to make an external tkpng rpm for Fedora too.. just want to make sure it's not a wash :)
17:30.14brlcadis ours a subset?
17:30.30starseekerThat would be easier - I gather tkimg stomps all over the Fedora guidelines for included libs
17:30.31brlcadi vaguely recall tkimg having separate libs for each format
17:30.58brlcadagain, ours has no included libs
17:31.04brlcaddid we do that or is that how it came?
17:31.13starseekerdunno
17:31.30starseekerall I can say is when I checked out the tkimg repository it looked almost nothign like ours
17:31.33brlcador is it a simple matter like our src/other in that they bundle and it's just there for release control and download convenience for stand-alone compiles
17:32.08brlcadhaving the sources shouldn't be a problem, it's whether it uses them during compile or not, and that can be controlled by the rpm
17:32.32brlcadit looks like we gutted their build system
17:33.03starseekernods - if they allow external libs during build it could work - I just don't know if they do - when I ran the default configure here it looked like it walked into all the lib directories (took a while)
17:34.04brlcadyeah, I don't think an rpm would be that hard at all, the deps shouldn't be a problem
17:34.34brlcadtkpng could be even simpler still, but I don't see tkimg as a problem if we have to in the meantime
17:35.32starseekertalcite: um... - is this of interest? http://www.rpmfind.net/linux/RPM/fedora/devel/x86_64/tkimg-1.4-0.6.20091129svn.fc13.x86_64.html
17:36.11brlcadwhether they do or don't "allow" external libs is a really *trivial build matter that wouldn't be hard to change, not an reason to discount it by itself
17:36.11talcitestarseeker: : what the heck? That definitely wasn't there before....
17:36.19brlcadhaha
17:36.21talcitewell 1129.. I guess it saves some work =)
17:37.10starseekerfirst rule of solving a problem in open source - make sure someone else hasn't solved it already ;-P
17:37.32starseekerhttp://www.rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=tkimg
17:37.32brlcadhttp://rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=tkimg&submit=Search
17:37.44starseekerhehe
17:37.44brlcadlooks like since fed 9
17:37.47talciteyeah. I checked both in the existing packages and also in the packages being developed
17:38.06talcitereally? that's strange.
17:38.21talcite... it's there
17:38.21brlcadhttp://rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=tkhtml
17:38.28talcitearghhh
17:38.44brlcadahh, that's not tkhtml3
17:38.50starseekerwill still be switching to tkpng, but it DEFINITELY looks like the rpm need not wait on that
17:39.25brlcadhttp://rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=tkhtml3  <-- heh, but that is
17:39.28starseekerYeah, looks like only Mandriva has tkhtml3
17:39.46talcitebrlcad: yeah, but tkimg was also one of the ones that I had us statically compile because I thought it wasn't in fedora
17:39.46brlcadinteresting that "tkhtml" doesn't match the "tkhtml3" search
17:39.49talciteI have no idea how I missed that
17:40.12brlcadlooks like your job is done!
17:40.17talciteerr not statically compile, but have us compile from within the project
17:40.22talciteyeah =S
17:40.26starseekerchecks Utah and TNT...
17:40.41talcitehmm tkpng is already in fedora. convenient
17:40.54brlcadTNT doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me as an RPM .. it's just a set of headers
17:41.08talciteno, utah and tnt aren't there. I just checked again
17:41.10brlcadnothing to compile
17:41.23talcitehmm. that's true
17:41.26brlcadno resulting "library"
17:41.38talciteI was actually thinking about that the other day. It could possibly only exist as a dev package?
17:41.50brlcadare there separate -dev packages?
17:41.55talciteyes
17:42.01talcitedevel to be more precise
17:42.02brlcadah, then yeah .. that's all it'd be
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17:42.25talciteI'm actually curious about how they managed to build tkImg in fedora
17:42.41starseekertalcite: if I were you I'd not dig in too deep
17:42.44brlcadwith the install amounting to something like "for i in *.h ; do cp $i $INSTROOOOT ; done"
17:42.57talcitestarseeker: haha shooting myself in the foot? =)
17:42.58starseekerif the notice it's doing something "against policy" you might get elected to fix it :-P
17:43.34brlcadhttp://rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=RLE&submit=Search+...&system=&arch=
17:44.08talcitewait. They're using tkimg v1.4
17:44.10talciteis that even out?
17:44.31starseekertalcite: it shouldn't matter
17:44.44starseekerwe don't exactly strain tkimg...
17:44.50talcitewell, the thing is that they may have changed the lib inclusion format
17:44.59talcitebetween 1.3 and 1.4 I mean
17:45.16talciteI just checked, the website has 1.3 . What's going on?
17:45.35starseekerthey're tracking subversion (or cvs)
17:45.52talcitethey should put that in the version info if they were
17:46.06talciteoh wait, they put it in the release stuff. ok
17:46.37brlcadnotes that we're probably the maintainers of URT at this point
17:46.50talcitereally? I thought you guys didn't change it
17:47.05starseekerhe means the original team isn't actively working on it anymore
17:47.37starseekerhadn't looked at utah rle much...
17:47.40starseekergoogles...
17:47.42brlcadURT was part of the "Alpha 1" project, which BRL funded back in the day
17:48.18brlcadAlpha 1 was a larger umbrella project aim at (*drumroll*) developing a NURBS ray tracing capability
17:49.27starseekerwinces
17:49.53starseekerI don't even see where to download it...
17:50.02brlcadthey got it working, one of the first
17:50.14brlcadbut the project was a bit of a fiasco, though
17:50.25brlcadgot mired in legal problems
17:50.31starseekeryuck
17:50.43talcite=/
17:50.44starseekerleave it to the lawyers...
17:52.05talciteUtah is clean though right?
17:52.12starseekerah, yes... http://www.cs.utah.edu/gdc/projects/alpha1/
17:52.27brlcadas I understand it (purely anecdotal), BRL threw several million at UofUtah to write the code, they did, then UofUtah told BRL they didn't have rights use ite
17:52.48brlcadlegal battle ensued
17:53.23starseekerand evidently Utah hung onto it
17:53.30talcitehuh. well that's something
17:54.15brlcadin the end, I think both sides walked away, UoUtah got a bunch of papers (and money) out of the deal
17:54.47brlcadutah saw dollar signs when they got it working, wanted to sell it
17:55.14brlcadapparently licensed it to at least one group, FeatureCAM
17:55.32starseekerbah.  Whatever happened to the idea of universities doing research for the betterment of humanity, not commercial gain?
17:56.10brlcadthat was long before my time, 15-20 years iirc
17:56.54starseekerand we end up with libutahrle, which I gather is used for format conversion?
17:57.15brlcadURT was at least released, way back in late 80's
17:57.47brlcadlibutahrle is like libpng, we have a bunch of image processing tools that use it
17:58.14brlcadlooks like 58 tools
17:59.23brlcadprovides fast, simple, and lossless .pix/.bw compression
18:00.19brlcadworth noting that probably 30-40 of the rle tools are from URT, the rest are ours using libutahrle
18:00.35starseekerhrm
18:00.58brlcaduseful processing plugins when we get that all working
18:01.55starseekerwhere does that leave talcite for making an rpm?  Are we now the canonical source?
18:02.21``Erikshudders recalling his pcx loader for quake shtuff
18:04.49brlcaddoesn't really affect talcite making an rpm
18:05.31talciteso no source changes?
18:06.01brlcadnothing major that should affect integration
18:07.44brlcadif you really want to cleanest set of sources, that would be ours
18:08.42brlcadbut we already break out librle from the tools
18:09.18brlcadwe're basically 3.1b + minor build tweaks with URT and librle separated
18:10.02brlcadtalcite: the existing RPM is no good?
18:10.33brlcadhttp://rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=RLE
18:11.28talcitebrlcad: haven't tried yet. I probably need to work from native sources though. The package reviewers would have a fit if they weren't
18:11.54brlcadthat's my point, we could certainly become the native sources
18:12.17brlcadcould set up a proper project for URT, push out a new release
18:12.25talciteohhh that's what you mean
18:12.39brlcadthere is no upstream
18:13.05talciteit'd make things much simpler if we could. At the current situation, I'd be forced to become upstream myself
18:13.55talcitecould we push out a project for utah, nurbs, and STEP?
18:14.05brlcadspencer isn't at uofutah any longer, there is no upstream
18:15.14brlcadnurbs I wouldn't want to usurp personally, we're already pushing mcneal's generosity given how we use their toolkit
18:15.22brlcadSTEP we certainly could
18:16.26brlcadalso has no interested/viable upstream, already gave us the go-ahead for takeover a couple years ago
18:16.45talcitehmm. Alright, I'll talk to the fedora devs about nurbs. Once utah and step are re-released, I'll go ahead and package them
18:17.29brlcadsetting up utah and step projects will probably take a couple weeks
18:18.03brlcad(given the time of year and all)
18:19.29starseekertalcite: what do you need for "separate project?" tarball that can build on its own?
18:20.56talcitepreferably its own tracker. Something I can point to when people are looking for sources and bug reports
18:22.06starseekeruh.. that might as well be our current stuff for BRL-CAD - what would be wrong with tarballs for those two and pointers to our current support channels?
18:23.21talciteprobably not an issue
18:23.36talciteI'll double check with the fedora devs though
18:23.41starseekerk
18:24.25starseekerstep already has its own subconfigure - utahrle does not, currently
18:26.12starseekergonna have to update the detection logic for step building (or more probably create it, I doubt I did it right the first time)
18:35.40brlcadstep will be pretty easy, urt will need some cleanup to warrant a 3.2 or 4.0 release
18:36.51brlcadi'll submit a project request to give them a tracker home
18:37.51brlcadthen can link through some subdomains, get basic services set up
18:37.56starseekerutahrle.sf.net?
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20:16.19starseekerheh - brlcad got killed by tofu
20:17.21tofuhuh
20:20.50starseekerjust the way the nicks came and went
20:20.55starseekeris easily amused
20:21.21tofufails to locate a valid e-mail for nathan o'brien
20:27.34CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36925 10/brlcad/trunk/ (25 files in 8 dirs):
20:27.34CIA-38BRL-CAD: Swap in tkpng for the small subset of tkimg we were previously using - also try
20:27.34CIA-38BRL-CAD: to set up tkpng to support 'proper' package require use. Archer appears to be
20:27.34CIA-38BRL-CAD: the only app using it at the moment, so remove tkimg loading code and package
20:27.34CIA-38BRL-CAD: require tkpng instead. As of this checking tkpng won't build out of box in all
20:27.34CIA-38BRL-CAD: cases - the current src/other/tkpng is a pristine 0.9 tarball. Next checking
20:27.36CIA-38BRL-CAD: will add specific changes to build logic for BRL-CAD.
20:28.34starseekerer, whooops - OK not quite pristine
20:31.41CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36926 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkpng/Makefile.in: Whoops, looks like svn helpfully ignored the original Makefile.in
20:32.00tofupasses distcheck?
20:33.40starseekertofu: not yet, working on it
20:34.19CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36927 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkpng/ (Makefile.in configure configure.in): OK, add the tweaks to Makefile.in and configure.in. Shouldn't need the original configure file. This extension should disappear altogether if Tk8.6 brings native support for png.
20:34.58starseekertofu: if you want we can revert it until after the release
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21:08.55starseekerstarts distcheck and goes for food
21:19.25CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36928 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_X.c: add prototype for genmap
21:22.40CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36929 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (metaball/metaball.c table.c): fix metaball_adjust prototype
21:27.59CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36930 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/tkImgFmtPIX.c: match type with fb.h
21:43.15``Erikhm, seems to be some libtool vs not libtool confusion in tkpng
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21:46.11``Erikhttp://paste.bzflag.bz/d49811205
21:56.59``Erikhuh, xcb requires python? O.o
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22:10.33CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36931 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/Makefile.am: tkimg dir is no more.
22:12.49talciteheh yay
22:12.51tofustarseeker: per erik's paste, need to make the install rule manually run make all before make install, then install without libtool
22:14.10starseekerer...
22:14.45``Erikthis is pleasant, fbsd has a tkpng port
22:15.36talcitetkpng is already packaged into fedora as well
22:15.54tofuexcellend
22:15.56tofut*
22:15.57``Erikso if the configure.ac is smart enough to use the system one, less in /usr/local/brlcad/ :)
22:16.12starseekerdon't y'all get too happy too fast, I haven't got it working right yet
22:16.20starseeker<- autotools dummy :-(
22:16.31talciteI'm sure brlcad can get things working for you
22:16.49starseekertalcite: he'll let me flounder a while - good learning experience :-/
22:16.54talcitethere's also a channel here that helps with autotools... #toolchain or something?
22:16.57talciteheh
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22:18.17``Eriklearning experience, entertainment, something
22:18.42talcite##workingset That was it
22:18.49talcitethese guys are really good
22:19.44starseekertalcite: part of the issue is we have a rather advanced autotools setup compared to what a lot of projects have, and are doing a lot of custom things (the db directory is a good example)
22:19.53brlcadsees a couple bzflag devs in there
22:20.59starseekerbrlcad: do you mean doing something like tkpng-install: tkpng-all in src/other/Makefile.am?
22:21.29brlcadno, i mean one line to run all
22:21.31brlcadanother to run install
22:21.34brlcadfor the install rule
22:21.37starseekeroh
22:32.10``Erikwow, 33 megs in src/other/boost/ O.O
22:35.28CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36932 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/Makefile.am: If someone runs the install rule, make sure make all is run first.
22:35.29starseekertakes a stab at it...
22:45.51starseeker``Erik: did that help any?
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23:48.50yukonbobbrlcad: what's the "kde/hyrdrogen/linux" .po discussion that's been going on about?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091217

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091217

00:24.11``Erikstarseeker: I've no idea, I did a build as I left, but I've been driving, waiting for accident cleanup, and grocery shopping :D
00:24.28starseekerah :-)
00:24.49starseekerOh, are you redeemed now that 7.16.2 is installed?
00:25.26``Erikhuh? installed on what? O.o
00:25.53``Erik<-- was still working on stripping down and building up a box for the port testing
00:26.04starseekerISST
00:26.12``Erikas for deployment, I still haven't chucked binaries around yet
00:26.19starseekerah
00:26.41``Erikponders a q&d http query to alert people when an upgrade is available automagically
00:30.45``Erikbought a nice fat ny strip, but it's already late and he's tired :(
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07:16.34talciteare we using tnt v1.26 or v.3.11?
07:16.51talcitetechnically v3.11 is beta, but it's over a year old already
07:17.31talcitebest part is that TNT doesn't come with any readmes or anything. Can't tell by looking at the package usually =)
07:29.19talciteOh and we're using Jama as well?
07:39.14talciteHmm. Nevermind, it looks like we're using 3.05. Found it in tnt_vec.h =S
07:40.35talciteIs there likely to be a problem if we upgrade to 3.11? 3.05 source is no longer available at the TNT site.
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15:17.17``Erikwell now, tkpng is an odd monkey
15:19.21brlcadodd in the sense that he doesn't fling poo ?
15:19.25``Eriksuspects that it could be dumped and redone in very short order without the TEA weirdness
15:19.44``Erikit implements it's own subset of PNG parsing/writing instead of just using libpng
15:21.37``Erikthe build for it is also fickle, I get crud about missing the symbol 'pow' in some places, the configure looks for it, but never tries to use it
15:24.42``Erikimagines starseeker may've spent more effort trying to integrate it than it woulda taken to bridge between Tk_CreatePhotoImageFormat and libpng :)
15:25.56``Erikponders adding pix and bw tk image thingies to libtclcad
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15:38.32CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36933 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: improvements to ADRT's cut mode
15:41.51``Erikdiff vs tag in svn is klugy :(
15:48.23starseeker``Erik: it should go away altogether once Tk8.6 is out and we have it integrated
15:48.30``Erikah, 'k
15:48.38``Erikdidn't know 86 had core png support
15:48.47starseekerthey're apparently basing it off of tkpng's code, too :-)
15:49.07starseekerso I figured if we could work using tkpng, we stood a good chance of working with vanilla 8.6
15:50.00``Erikwow, 86b1, dec 23 2008...
15:50.11``Eriklong beta
15:50.30starseekeryeah, they're doing some major rework of the Alpha OSX backend
15:50.41starseekerer Aqua even
15:51.18``Erikponders installing 86 on a bsd box (it's in ports) and trying to compile BRL-CAD against it O.o
15:52.24starseeker``Erik: might be interesting
15:52.49starseekerwill need to do it at some point, and I expect your bsd box will complain as loud or louder than anything else ;-)
15:53.01``Erik(or making starseeker do it, since he has accounts on all these bsd boxen)
16:09.42brlcadstarseeker: so the problem with van's code I think was isolated
16:10.02brlcadso you know, he was initializing his own resource structures (for smp processing)
16:10.18brlcadbut even when you do that, you still have to init the rt_uniresource
16:10.48brlcadas there are many non-smp routines throughout librt that rely on the rt_uniresource for processing
16:10.56starseekeryeah, he emailed me too :-)
16:11.18starseekerexcellent
16:11.20brlcadhe didn't know that was the problem, I noticed just when I saw that snippet
16:11.29starseekerheh
16:11.30brlcadthat snippet is bad
16:11.41brlcadit's not either, have to do both
16:40.44talcitehey guys. Did you use the 1.2.5 version of JAMA with the TNT stuff?
16:42.31talciteJAMA doesn't have version information in the comments like TNT did. Neither have readmes etc.
16:50.52brlcadtalcite: not sure
16:51.00brlcaddoesn't look like it was documented at the time
16:51.22brlcadthe latest of both should work just fine
16:51.50talcitesounds good. I'll package those tomorrow night
17:17.08brlcadstarseeker: have the pics
17:20.02brlcad11 and 4 are probably the best, but you pick
17:20.53brlcader, 12, and 4
17:31.47brlcadmaybe 6
17:32.05brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/marching_tets/
17:32.21brlcad12 is probably the more interesting angle
17:48.30brlcadcd tkpng && make  LIBTOOL="../../../libtool --mode=link" LIBTOOLDIR=".libs/" LIBS="-lz" all
17:48.34brlcadmake[4]: *** No rule to make target `all'.  Stop.
17:49.23starseekererm
17:49.58starseekerbrlcad: cool, thanks :-)
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19:00.17brlcadstarseeker: nicely done!
19:07.33``Erik*yawn*
19:12.21``Erikjama 1.2.5 and tnt 1.2.6
19:16.06brlcadhow'd you figure that out?
19:24.57CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36934 10/brlcad/trunk/ (21 files in 9 dirs): assume c89, no longer define USE_PROTOTYPES directly. leave it up to the compiler, but still don't even check for it since we assume at least c89.
19:41.33starseekerbrlcad: thanks! :-)
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20:11.09``Erikwild guess :D those've been the released ones for ages (and what I use as deps in fbsd)
20:14.49``Eriklooking at diffs of the file, only jaam_lu.h is any different, using NEAR_ZERO and renaming piv to pivot
20:17.47``Erikand ayup, the diff's of jama_lu.h make it look like all those differences were added on dec 02, 2009 by someone named 'brlcad' :) it's 1.2.5
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22:51.39``Erikhuh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dadPWhEhVk wonder what his software stack was
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091218

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091218

00:19.34starseeker``Erik: yeah, I"m getting the pow thing here too
00:19.54``Erikit's not nomming -lm right for some reason... and it seems inconsistent O.o
00:20.40starseekerI don't suppose we can just hardcode it in?
00:22.09starseekerhere's where we do it:  AC_CHECK_LIB(m, cos, m_link_works=yes ; LIBM="-lm")
00:23.16``Erikor gut the TEA crap and just write a nice clean automake bit to do it O:-)
00:24.00starseeker``Erik: heh - brlcad wants us to stay with the existing external code whenever possible
00:24.20starseekerwould already have tried that, except he wants to learn how to do this sort of thing correctly
00:24.31starseekerit likely won't be the last time we're faced with it
00:25.36starseekersupposes the "ultimate" solution to this would be to make tcl.m4 and automake "play nice", but last time I tried that all I did was expose my own ignorance
00:26.46``Eriktkpng is a stopgap until 86 though, so *shrug* that one just doesn't matter, I'd imagine
00:28.57starseekerarrrrrgh.
00:28.58starseeker/usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/4.3.4/../../../crt1.o: In function `_start':
00:28.58starseeker(.text+0x18): undefined reference to `main'
00:28.58starseekercollect2: ld returned 1 exit status
00:29.07starseekeradd in -lm, and THAT happens
00:29.46``Erikhm, then "ur doin it rong"? :D
00:32.55starseekerwhy is it looking for main while compiling a library??
00:34.58starseekeroh, BLAST it
00:35.12starseekerthe gcc command from the src/other/Makefile.am isn't including shared
00:55.18starseekerwhat the bleeeeep....
01:00.05``Erikoutwitted by the machine yet again? :)
01:00.24starseekerif this sucker isn't AI complete I hate to think what that says about me
01:00.54starseekermixing libtool and non-libtool config settings just ain't a happy thing
01:02.18starseekerthe ironic thing is that --enable-all and the included libz make this significantly harder, instead of simpler :-/
01:02.23starseekerfigures
01:06.23CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36935 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac src/other/Makefile.am):
01:06.23CIA-38BRL-CAD: Sigh. This probably violates some rule or other, but since we're passing in our
01:06.23CIA-38BRL-CAD: own custom TKPNGZLIB variable anyway have it point to the .so link instead of
01:06.24CIA-38BRL-CAD: the .la file and take libtool out of the equation. Also add LIBM to the flags
01:06.24CIA-38BRL-CAD: we need to feed the tkpng make process.
01:10.47brlcadthat wont work starseeker
01:11.09brlcadit's only a .so on shared object library systems
01:11.22CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36936 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkpng/Makefile.in: As long as libtool isn't being invoked, restore Makefile.in to pristine state. Now only change is removing explicit -lz in configure.in
01:11.28brlcadcould be a .dylib or a .a or a .dll or ...
01:11.39starseekerbrlcad: well blast it what do we do then
01:11.47starseekerlibtool is screwing up good here
01:12.03brlcadwhat was the problem?  (haven't read backlog)
01:12.07brlcadit was working..
01:12.18starseekernot here, apparently
01:12.28``Erikthe problem is that TEA and auto* don't live together well :D *duck*
01:12.36``Eriksome machines don't see pow()
01:12.47starseekerthat may be fixed with the LIBM flag
01:13.17``Erikah, new problems arose? :)
01:13.18starseekermy libtool call is looking for main because (for whatever reason) it's not including -shared in the gcc call
01:13.40starseekerthat's what the "undefined reference to main" is
01:13.53starseekerflippin thing is trying to build a program, not a shared library
01:14.07starseekerand I can't even track down where that -shared is supposed to come from yet
01:14.51``Erikusually it comes from it seeing the automake target having an LT in the name
01:15.09``Eriklib_LIBRARIES vs lib_LTLIBRARIES iirc
01:15.24brlcadsounds like you're making the wrong libtool call then
01:15.40brlcadwhat's the actual error?
01:15.55brlcadand what's the compile/link line look like
01:16.45``Erikgot his sushi set today, can finally roll his maki with a real sushi mat instead of an old chinese calendar
01:17.06starseekerone sec...
01:17.12CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36937 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac src/other/tkpng/Makefile.in): Good point Sean - .so extension is not universal. Keep looking...
01:17.14``Erikmight have to sharpen up my knife this weekend :)
01:23.58CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36938 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/Makefile.am: Put back the libtool stuff in src/other/Makefile.am
01:24.16starseekermy machine is so slow....
01:25.32starseekerhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m1b73e737
01:25.35starseekerthere we go
01:26.08starseekerthe pow thing is handled by adding in LIBM, but the main is due to the missing -shared after gcc (manually inserting it and running that command succeeds)
01:26.57brlcadwhere is that -shared coming from?
01:27.06brlcadthat's not a libtool option
01:27.26brlcadpossibly preventing it from adding the flag(s) it needs
01:27.41CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36939 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/Makefile.am: OK, looks like the LIBM inclusion is legit.
01:29.05brlcadyou basically just need to invoke libtool the same way it would be invoked if you wrote the Makefile.am with an LT_LIBRARIES declaration
01:29.42brlcadlook at one of our other existing Makefiles that gets generated from Makefile.am to see what it adds or, if you have to, whip up a quick testing Makefile.am
01:30.35starseekeractually I think the -shared IS supposed to be after the gcc command, but gets lost in translation somehow? http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d4d5ba3c
01:45.27brlcadyou're not supposed to figure out the gcc line
01:45.33brlcadyou're supposed to figure out the libtool line
01:45.40brlcadremember, libtool is what you're actually running
01:45.50brlcadit takes a variety of options to tell it how to run
01:46.05brlcadit then figures out whether to use -shared or a variety of other possibilities
01:46.19brlcaddepending on the flags you told it, the compiler being used, the OS, etc
01:48.41starseekeris experimenting with libtool now
01:51.32brlcadlook at one of the other lib dirs, that has the logic in it lalready
01:53.14starseekernods
01:53.37starseekermisses asdf right about now...
01:58.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36940 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/Makefile.am: Start playing with libtool options
01:58.58starseekerthat's all the options from one of the other makefiles before --mode-link
02:04.49starseekergood grief.  this is more work than doing our own system
02:05.57starseekerbrlcad: I'm going to revert to tkimg for now so the build will work again while I beat my head on this
02:15.47``Erik.asd files have their own quirks, though...
02:19.54starseeker``Erik: they do
02:21.13starseekerbut they don't have all the bizarre syntax fun
02:22.27starseekerhrm... since talcite has a tkimg package on Fedora, perhaps the smart move is just to wait for Tk8.6 on this one
02:23.38starseekeris of the opinion that a general solution for passing info to subconfigures is in order, but so far looks to be too dim a bulb to get a grasp of it...
02:28.39CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36941 10/brlcad/trunk/ (124 files in 12 dirs):
02:28.39CIA-38BRL-CAD: Merge back in tkimg - tkpng integration is taking more time to get right, and
02:28.39CIA-38BRL-CAD: doesn't offer new functionality. Problem of subconfigures using local BRL-CAD
02:28.39CIA-38BRL-CAD: src/other copies of libraries needs to be considered, but this isn't the case
02:28.39CIA-38BRL-CAD: that justifies the time.
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11:43.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: 0388.232.184.140 07http://brlcad.org * r2053 10/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Ipb-blocklist-addr: New page: 192.168.2.1
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14:21.21``Erikheh "I don't suffer from insanity... I enjoy every minute of it!"
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14:54.48starseeker``Erik: then you've got the right job ;-)
14:55.17``Eriktar... flavored... icecream... I don't think I'm ever going to finland O.o
14:57.05starseekerwonders who verified it tasted like tar...
14:57.41``Erikhttp://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Souvenir-Potpourri-Surprise!.aspx  about 3/4 down
14:57.55``Erik"Do not anger the Finns, for they have strange ways and a twisted sense of humor," he wrote, "you described salmiak as tar-like, but we're already way ahead of you: the leijona salmiak is actually tar-flavored salmiak candy. I'm not joking. We also have tar-flavored ice cream here, too."
15:15.37CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36942 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: pack more info (code, hostname, .g filename) into the saved shotline
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16:11.47``Erik"Do not anger the Finns, for they have strange ways and a twisted sense of humor," he wrote, "you described salmiak as tar-like, but we're already way ahead of you: the leijona salmiak is actually tar-flavored salmiak candy. I'm not joking. We also have tar-flavored ice cream here, too."
16:11.52``Erikdamnit
16:21.58starseekerHmm, this might be interesting to the Qt/Ogre integration folks:  http://www.mail-archive.com/qt4-preview-feedback@trolltech.com/msg01194.html
16:25.52starseekeror I guess this is the actual qt  archive of the message:
16:25.54starseekerhttp://lists.trolltech.com/pipermail/qt4-preview-feedback/2009-October/000964.html
16:26.09CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r36943 10/rt^3/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): C++ interface to the eto primitive (elliptical torus)
16:27.51CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r36944 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/CMakeLists.txt: included the elliptical torus (eto) in the brlcad.dll
16:34.36starseekereyes option b) in that email... hmm...
16:38.39CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36945 10/isst/trunk/src/ (gui.c isst.h local_worker.c net_worker.c): window is now resizable. GUI uses adjustable panes instead of fixed positions.
16:41.00``Erikyes, the implications of b) are truely terrifying O.o if I'm guessing at the QT bits of it correctly, the performance might be on par with remote X over a dialup :D
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16:41.59``Erikevery pixel would come covered in stickers from every bit of hardware it'd been to, like an old steamer trunk :D
16:45.31``Erikwell, poop, I thought there was a card for that
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19:49.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: 0392.112.171.107 07http://brlcad.org * r2054 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: /* Project Ideas */
20:10.20``Erikreads up on vEB trees
20:27.54starseeker``Erik: erm... you really think it would be that slow?
20:30.32``Erikit's basically schlepping crap to the gpu for fast rendering in ogre, then copying the buffer back to ram, then sending it back to the video card for display, right?
20:31.00``Erikusing qt's funky crap instead of actual ogl 'render to texture' goodness
20:31.07starseekerdunno
20:31.21starseekerdon't know if they've got that optimized or not
20:31.21``Erikand render to texture can drag down a gpu without that read/write pair in the middle
20:31.55starseekeryou think slower than merging the two opengl contexts like g3d is doing now?
20:33.44``ErikI've no idea what g3d is doing :D
20:34.22starseekerOgre and Qt each have their own context
20:34.26starseekerthen they get merged
20:34.52CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36946 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (4 files in 2 dirs): break metaball tesselation out into it's own file
20:35.09``Erikkinda gathered, the details of the second are what I don't know... :D
20:35.35starseekerchecks...
20:36.37starseekerhttp://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42733&sid=76d05fd1184616e02c51ab4734ffb9b7&start=25
20:36.52starseekerMarseyeah's post starts it off as far as we're concerned
20:38.29starseekerah yes, MakeCurrent is the problem child
20:39.06starseekerRalith made it tolerable via some sort of lazy approach, but MakeCurrent remains expensive
20:39.51starseekerfunctional though - we can probably proceed using that as an approach until we have a real need to do radical surgery for performance reasons...
20:42.21CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36947 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/metaball/ (metaball.c metaball.h metaball_tri.c): quell warnings
21:56.59``Erikjams his finger up his nose
21:57.27CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36948 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (3 files in 2 dirs): import marching cube vertex and edge tables from Cory Bourke's public domain demo.
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23:20.45``Erikall stocked up and ready for the blizzard, huzzah
23:52.17brlcadheh
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091219

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091219

00:07.08Ralithstarseeker: I hope to set up a proper Ogre backend for Qt at some point
00:07.17Ralithso it's all clean and fast
01:53.55starseekerRalith: yes, I agree that looks to be the best-case solution, but in the meantime I was curious of any of those ideas might offer better performance than MakeCurrent without the effort required for a QtPaintEngine or what have you implemented in Ogre
01:59.48RalithI'm not even certain that it would actually be all that much effort; Qt already has facilities for generating an image (read: texture) of arbitrary widgets.
02:12.08starseekerhmm
02:12.57starseekerso just create Ogre objects to "target" with the Qt textures?
03:14.15Ralithnot sure what you mean by target
03:15.00Ralithalso, I've no idea if the image-making system works without somehow displaying the widget
03:15.05Ralithbut it could be basically that simple.
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20:16.25starseekerwow it's white out there
20:16.35starseekerfor once they were right, snow snow snow!
20:25.00brlcadhehe
20:26.53brlcadabout a foot here so far
20:31.10``Erikif I were still driving my truck, it'd be no issue... but with the car, I'm immoblized... shoulda gotten chinese last night :/
20:32.32brlcadi was driving in last night when it was just a couple inches... man that was harsh..
20:32.37brlcadcrawling at idle
20:40.39``Erikyour tires were ok for the speed? heh
20:40.56``Erikthose new rears you have look very summery
20:41.35``Erikpressure to area probably a hair less than mine, and no actual grip tread to 'em :)
20:59.52*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@249.Red-88-11-185.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
21:50.43brlcadno, no speed at all
21:50.48brlcadwas slipping at idle
21:51.56brlcadwas able to keep control, but just barely and at an utter crawl (1mph in many places)
21:52.08brlcadeven 695 sucked, but 95 was at least nice and clear
21:52.25brlcadworse was the back neighborhood I was leaving from around midnight
22:51.46poolioyeah, this snow is quite crazy :)
23:18.12``Erikafter doing my slide down the back road on hills with turns, I'm just too chickenshit to put my car on the road
23:18.53``Erikgiven that during the horrible area, my tail kept kicking out with traction control on trying to go up a hill and a fuckwit was tailgating me
23:19.07``ErikP(accident) is just to high, my 'tude is to say "fuck it, I'm 'sick'" or something
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091220

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091220

00:01.13*** join/#brlcad Nohla (n=jesica@168.226.179.125)
00:45.31Nohlabrlcad hola!
01:16.56*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
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16:57.54brlcadhola Nohla :)
17:03.15Nohlabrlcad holas!
17:04.53Nohlabrlcad i'm looking for a projector, have any recomendation?
17:05.44Nohlabetter if it have remote control
17:09.35Nohla(sorry, it has)
18:21.47*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=matthew@75-119-226-202.dsl.teksavvy.com)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091221

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091221

00:14.57*** join/#brlcad talcite__ (n=matthew@69-165-134-192.dsl.teksavvy.com)
00:53.26brlcadNohla: what kind of projector?
00:54.10brlcadi've preferred the smaller, lightweight versions myself, but none really stand out as fantastic without a large price
01:11.51Nohlathe idea is not to pay more than 500 E o $700
01:15.11Nohlait's for the free software's meeting
01:25.30*** join/#brlcad talcite_ (n=matthew@69-165-161-148.dsl.teksavvy.com)
01:47.30``Erikheh, the lg phone thingie ain't 'nuff?
01:59.33brlcadNohla: that's a pretty small budget to work with :)
02:00.03brlcadmaybe a basic infocus
02:00.27brlcadhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824140062&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Projectors-_-InFocus-_-24140062
02:09.54``ErikI'd imagine 500-700 usd is reasonably hefty for most folk
02:13.15brlcadnot for a good projector
02:13.50brlcadfor *any* projector, sure maybe .. :)
02:25.59``Erikmost folk can't be buying projectors, no? :)
04:06.50Nohlabrlcad: InFocus remind me to Focusín XD
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09:23.35CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r36949 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/CMakeLists.txt: updated CMake file to be consistent with Makefile.am (primitives/metaball/metaball_tri.c)
12:19.49CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36950 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libdm/dm-ogl.c libfb/if_X.c tab/tabinterp.c): Added foward declarations for some "static int" returning functions to get compiling under stricter rules caused by some extra debugging options.
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18:28.22*** join/#brlcad kristian-aalborg (n=kristian@2505ds5-abc.0.fullrate.dk)
18:28.28kristian-aalborghi all
18:29.19kristian-aalborgtrying to help an architect buddy finding som FOSS to replace autocad ad 3dstudio - any suggestions?
19:49.37``Erikwhat's the intended use? the two names seem to be us and I think qcad?
19:52.23kristian-aalborgwell, this is not for me so I really can't be too specific
19:52.59kristian-aalborgit's just for someone who is not really acquainted with OS stuff, so I thought I'd look around a bit
20:50.06CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36951 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: Fixed bad reuse of loop index; renamed indexes for readability and also some ws/style cleanup.
21:06.50CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03r_weiss * r36952 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/ged.h src/libged/scale.c src/mged/chgview.c): Updated MGED sca command to take 3 arguments to specify different scaling factors for different axes when doing object aka matrix edits (feature request id 1206440)
21:29.29starseekereyes the apache tcl.m4 stuff... looks like they hacked things up to make TEA and autotools play together...
21:38.41*** join/#brlcad docelic_ (n=docelic@78-2-94-206.adsl.net.t-com.hr)
21:48.59CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36953 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
21:48.59CIA-38BRL-CAD: richard weiss added support to the sca command so it'll take three or one
21:48.59CIA-38BRL-CAD: arument when scaling, allowing all three axes to have different scaling factors.
21:48.59CIA-38BRL-CAD: assumes non-uniform scaling factors can actually be applied, of course, but
21:48.59CIA-38BRL-CAD: safes the modeler a few steps if they know what they want.
21:50.41kristian-aalborgare there architects using brl-cad?
21:53.57brlcadkristian-aalborg: brl-cad has been used fro architecture before, but it really depends what the goals of the modeler are
21:54.57brlcadbrl-cad and qcad are pretty much as good as it is when it comes to open source, but we also have a long ways to go before being a full replacement for the commercial CAD systems
21:55.44brlcadthere's lots of features one might take for granted that we don't do well, other features that we are exceptional at, others still that we're good at, but do in very different ways from other systems
21:55.48brlcadreally depends
21:59.07kristian-aalborgI think that the support is the best sales argument for many open source things
21:59.43kristian-aalborgyou really have "free 24 hours support for life" with forums and irc ;)
22:00.21brlcadI'm not so sure I agree with that, but it is certainly a strong point ;)
22:01.19brlcad"car comes with free car mechanic, availble 24/7, but the car only goes forwards and won't turn right"
22:02.39brlcadif you need a car that turns right, the free mechanic isn't very useful (unless you can work with him to fix the car so it DOES go right.. eventually) ;)
22:03.02``Erikheh, c'mon now, there're things we do that the commercial folk don't... different emphasis
22:05.13CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36954 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: erik made the windows resizable, with resizable panes too instead of using fixed positions.
22:06.42``Erikthat's entirely gtk+ isst/ stuff, d'no if a mention belongs in BRL-CAD proper
22:12.23``Erika 70 minute video critique of the star wars prequels... yowza
22:31.46kristian-aalborgthanks for the input
22:31.49kristian-aalborgcya
22:54.26brlcad``Erik: ah
22:55.34CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36955 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: yank, missed that resizing was not in here but in isst/trunk
22:56.02*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || #brlcad logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || Happy Open Source Anniversary! (December 21st)
22:56.18*** join/#brlcad Nohla (n=jesica@168.226.179.195)
22:56.24brlcadhola Nohla
22:57.10Nohlabrlcad holas
23:02.39CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36956 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (20 files in 20 dirs): quell verbose compilation warnings, mostly unused/unchecked params and missing structparse initializers and sign warnings
23:03.16Nohlabrlcad when will you stop working?
23:04.02NohlaCIA-38 always tell us about you :)
23:04.54brlcadNohla: maybe when I'm dead
23:05.13brlcadunless I can prevent that from happening ;)
23:06.27Nohladon't say that, dark ideas will appear in the people minds
23:06.29``Erikburley, libfb has no notion of mouse events, correct?
23:09.23brlcad``Erik: not entirely true
23:09.36brlcadthey do, but they're specific to each fb interface
23:10.28brlcadseveral of the fbs set up to receive input events during open()
23:10.30``ErikI saw some events, but they were hard coded
23:10.32brlcadthen poll() is called
23:10.39``Eriknothing settable
23:10.40brlcadwhere events are updated and processed
23:10.59brlcadmost are via some *_do_event() private handler
23:11.02``Erikso not quite right to redo something like isst
23:11.33brlcadnot sure you've stated a problem that infers that either way
23:11.41``Erikeh?
23:12.33``Eriklibfb can eat blits, but it doesn't seem equiped to handle mouse events *shrug*
23:13.19brlcadit handles mouse events, specific to each fb type
23:14.37brlcadall I'm saying is your conclusion (as stated) is a logical fallacy :)   "if false, then unsuitable"
23:15.20brlcadit may still be unsuitable, or need massaging or callbacks or something else added, it's trivial to mod
23:15.22``Erikheh, must be mis-stating then :) I see some event crap in if_X.c, but it's hard coded.
23:15.53``ErikI need the ability to catch mouse up, mouse down, and mouse motion for app specific stuff
23:16.06brlcadwhat would you do during the event?
23:16.17brlcaddoes the event need access to non-fb data?
23:17.00``Erikum, it'd need to update az/el, position, request a re-raytrace
23:19.41brlcadfor that, the fb interface could have a user-provided callback registerable in the FBIO
23:20.05brlcadif set, call it, else call the internal do_event() one for basic diagnostic
23:20.21brlcad(which by default for ogl/X are things like the x/y pixel   color)value
23:22.12CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36957 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 5 dirs): removed the 'diameter' parameter to the ft_make callback. seemed to be unused everywhere, hacked on at some point but never followed through on.
23:23.45brlcadI could add some hooks if ya need
23:26.29``Erikmeh, investigating at the moment, if that's how I wanna go, I can do it :)
23:26.59``Erikjust wanted someone to say that my assessment was correct
23:27.32brlcadit is certainly limited at the moment, because the fb's are considered pretty basic devices
23:27.59brlcadlibdm handles events but via tcl's event handler (iirc)
23:28.21``ErikI want to push to a tcl/tk solution for the ui I think
23:29.57``Eriktakes a moment to scare the snot out of some cats
23:32.00brlcadalways good fun
23:43.05CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36958 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (ebm/ebm.c ehy/ehy.c ell/ell.c epa/epa.c eto/eto.c): more quellage, verbose compilation warnings about unused and unchecked params.
23:44.00starseekerNohla: did you succeed with getting spanish documentation going?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091222

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091222

00:47.04CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36959 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/vshoot.c:
00:47.04CIA-38BRL-CAD: bring vshoot up-to-date with the current API, eliminating a lot of old cruft
00:47.04CIA-38BRL-CAD: that has changed. eliminated the duplication with non-vector helper functions
00:47.04CIA-38BRL-CAD: (they're in shoot.c). updated to bitvs and ptbls except didn't make the
00:47.05CIA-38BRL-CAD: necessary bookkeeping mods needed for rt_boolfinal() to keep track of finished
00:47.07CIA-38BRL-CAD: and waiting segments. that means this will NOT actually work, but should at
00:47.09CIA-38BRL-CAD: least compile cleanly once again.
00:48.53CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36960 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/Makefile.am: activate vshoot.c so that the file can stay in sync and possibly be worked on again now that it's back to a compiling state.
01:04.47CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36961 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/tgc/tgc.c:
01:04.47CIA-38BRL-CAD: these must be FIXED, not hacked around. can't have DM_* toggles in librt just
01:04.47CIA-38BRL-CAD: to quell root solver failures. root solver failures are higher priority than
01:04.47CIA-38BRL-CAD: the display feature (they indicate a low-level solidity failure).
01:06.35CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36962 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/Makefile.am: more rtgl turd cleanup. librt shall not depend on libdm.
01:09.06brlcadwoot, more than 50% of librt
01:14.03starseekererm - what happened with the tgc?
01:27.31CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36963 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (shoot.c vshoot.c): move the rt_vstub() function into vshoot.c and make it HIDDEN. rename it to vshot_stub() in the process, calling it if a primitive has a null vshot callback.
01:30.23brlcadstarseeker: hm?
01:31.24brlcadnothing happened to tgc, just people ignoring the root solver failures when it mattered instead of investigating the problem.
01:32.24brlcadpresumably, the printing evaluation failure statements slow down rtgl rendering or were just annoying
01:33.16brlcadso someone commented them out, which is a prioritization failure imho .. that's not something that should get pushed off for "later"
01:33.22brlcadif it's a problem, fix the problem
01:34.28brlcadprobably something nick tossed in while working on rtgl, just caught it now
01:35.34CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36964 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (27 files in 27 dirs):
01:35.34CIA-38BRL-CAD: eliminate the empty vshot() callbacks. now only primitives that actually do
01:35.34CIA-38BRL-CAD: something have a non-null callback (which is presently arb8, ell, half, rec,
01:35.34CIA-38BRL-CAD: sph, tgc, and tor). the rt_vshootray() caller tests for whether it's null and
01:35.34CIA-38BRL-CAD: calls a shot stub if needed.
01:35.41starseekerah
01:35.53starseeker``Erik: heh, this looks like it's up your alley:  http://dwim.hu
01:44.06Ralithwoah
01:44.09Ralithfancy
01:44.12Ralithslow, though
01:44.33starseekeroh, COOL - someone is looking at an llvm backend for sbcl
01:45.22RalithI saw that
01:45.32RalithI'm not entirely sure what benefits it would confer
01:46.14Ralith(other than the generally neat idea of collaborating with users of other languages on a single Sufficiently Smart Compiler)
01:47.28starseekerWell, Stephen Wilson is working on a language called Comma, which targets llvm:  http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/comma
01:48.02starseekerHe's developing it with Aldor, SPAD and Ada in mind - should be appropriate for mathematical uses
01:48.14starseekerwould like it to be usable with Lisp
01:48.18RalithI mean, why is it a Good Thing to have a LLVM backend in SBCL?
01:48.20Ralithoh, easy FFI?
01:48.23starseekerbingo
01:48.36Ralithhm, interesting
01:49.00starseekerhopefully, a function call to a Comma function in Lisp (or vice versa) could be handled semi-intelligently at the LLVM level
01:49.08RalithI wonder if clang would allow that to be extended to C++ support
01:49.17starseekerdunno
01:49.30starseekerit might require designing the compiler(s) with that specific use in mind
01:49.45starseekerbut since Stephen is writing Comma from the ground up... :-)
01:50.28starseekerhe was part of the Axiom mailing list a couple years ago, had an interest in the language used to describe mathematics in Axiom
01:51.11Ralithsurely there are benefits other than easy FFI to specially designed llvm-targeting languages, though
01:51.14starseekerAldor was the "successor" to SPAD, the original version of the language in Axiom - it's license never became compatible though
01:51.26starseekerRalith: oh, sure - lots of potential performance goodies
01:51.41Ralithperformance <3
01:52.09Ralithjust 'cuz LLVM has lots of shiny optimization magics that native SBCL lacks?
01:52.11starseekerAldor actually showed the way on how to approach such things - it was able to generate Lisp code for compiling into a Lisp target, or compile directly through gcc
01:52.15starseeker(I think)
01:52.21starseekermaybe had it's own compiler
01:52.34starseekerRalith: actually, not sure if LLVM will outperform sbcl's own compiler
01:52.51starseekerbut it's probably a fair bet llvm will get ported to a lot of platforms
01:52.58Ralithgood point
01:53.09Ralithand it's nearly always beneficial to pool effort
01:53.11starseekerkindaaa like targeting the Java virtual machine, but with modern llvm goodness
01:53.37Ralithhas always been kind of fuzzy on exactly what modern llvm goodness entails
01:54.08starseekerApparently a lot of compiler research has taken place since the basic gcc framework was laid out
01:54.28starseekerplus most descriptions of gcc's codebase I've heard are... well... colorful
01:55.14Ralithokay, cleaner and better-designed code is certainly desirable
01:55.21Ralithbut where's the "vm" come in?
01:55.33starseekervirtual machine, I believe...
01:55.35starseekerchecks
01:55.54starseekerlicense is another one
01:56.13starseekerthe *BSD folks and a lot of commercial folk would LOVE for there to be a Modified BSD licensed compiler chain
01:56.39starseekeryeah - LLVM = Low Level Virtual Machine
01:57.21starseekerI think the virtual machine part allows for certain types of optimizations that would be difficult otherwise, but it's not my specialty
01:57.53RalithI mean, I knew what VM refers to
01:58.19Ralithbut I'm not clear on what the VM portion of llvm is [for].
01:58.28Ralithsounds like I'm not entirely alone there, though
01:58.55starseekeryeah, that's beyond my knowledge depth
02:02.35Ralithwell, whatever the details, it'll be cool if this gets picked up.
02:18.57``Erik*readreadread* gcc is in it's third incarnation since I started watching... 2.7.x was there... then egcs kinda threw it all to the wind, then 4.0 was a total rewrite for new optimizations
02:19.45``Erikllvm kinda smells like a jvm that no one cares about :(
02:22.39``Erikdwim is what, an instance of an everyday software stack? :D I fail to see anything new and impressive :(
02:31.58Ralithcould not easily determine what dwim *is*
02:32.09Ralithmy best guess is some sort of web toolkit.
02:32.30Ralith``Erik: "a jvm that no one cares about?"  Everyone I've talked to seems to think that it's a Good Thing.
02:32.53Ralithaccross several language communities, no less.
02:35.14``Erik:D
02:35.48``Erikit seems to be doing what sun already did... and a few language weenies went "ooh", ...
02:52.57starseeker``Erik: just thought lisp + web might interest you (dwim)
02:54.38starseekerif nothing else, BSD licensed compiler stack will make a lot of people happy
02:58.34Ralithoh, there's plenty of lisp+web stuff out there, and tbh most of it is a bit less ill-defined than dwim >_>
03:03.17``Eriklisp is nifty, web seems inevitable... ucw is damn sexy, hunchentoot is kinda ok
03:03.55``Erikfaking stateful operation over a stateless protocol using continuations, that's drop dead sexy
03:08.33``Erikralith: check out ucw if you get some time, it makes list+web awesome
03:08.40``Eriklisp+web even
03:14.44Ralithnot the sexiest of homepages for a web framework
03:14.46Ralithbut it sounds interesting
03:14.48CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36965 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (eto/eto.c extrude/extrude.c table.c xxx/xxx.c): more quellage. add more extesive parameter testing to the xxx template for the primitive-specific structure, add more data validation.
03:14.52Ralithfoods
03:36.38*** join/#brlcad talcite__ (n=matthew@69-196-132-129.dsl.teksavvy.com)
03:37.39brlcadshakes fist at the binunif turds that ripple throughout
03:47.05CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36966 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
03:47.05CIA-38BRL-CAD: binary objects need to write out their minor type during export so that the data
03:47.05CIA-38BRL-CAD: can be properly imported without munging the API for everyone else. this
03:47.05CIA-38BRL-CAD: unfortunately (probably) cannot be accomplished without breaking protocol, so
03:47.05CIA-38BRL-CAD: hacking around it for now.
04:14.52CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36967 10/brlcad/trunk/ (10 files in 6 dirs): (log message trimmed)
04:14.52CIA-38BRL-CAD: remove minor_type from the functab interface for import5/export5. this was
04:14.52CIA-38BRL-CAD: apparently only added for binary objects, which needs to know which minor type
04:14.52CIA-38BRL-CAD: they are during import. instead of the object writing out it's minor type
04:14.52CIA-38BRL-CAD: during export, it munged the api to have the minor type passed from the
04:14.54CIA-38BRL-CAD: raw_external instead. this moves towards undoing that by removing minor_type
04:14.56CIA-38BRL-CAD: from all other objects and making binunif's a special case in db5_io. once
05:21.00CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36968 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/put.c: ft_make no longer takes a diameter value
05:23.17CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36969 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wdb_obj.c: bah, another ft_make with diagonal/diamter value that needs removing. also start the killage on expm.
05:25.30CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36970 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/asc/asc2g.c: ft_import5 no longer takes the minor type. fix this outlier.
05:29.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36971 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 4 dirs):
05:29.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: remove the 'experimental' binary object type. this was never implemented beyond
05:29.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: a few stubs and has a horrible vague name, so kill it. we have to leave the ID
05:29.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: and functab entry stubbed so that indices offset correctly but mark it as unused
05:29.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: so some future new object could conceivably reclaim the ID.
06:08.31starseekerhmm... xprocess looks kinda neat but man compiling it...
08:47.45CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r36972 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/CMakeLists.txt: updated CMake file to be consistent with Makefile.am (activated vshoot.c)
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11:19.24CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r36973 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (bomb.c cmdhist_obj.c): Wrapped debug variable declaration with DEBUG definition. Removed bu_cmdtab struct array 'ch_cmds[]' and 'cho_hist()', look to be un-used copies of existing definitions 'cho_cmds[]' and 'cho_cmd()'.
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13:50.45CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36974 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/nirt.c: ws cleanup
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13:57.30CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36975 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/nirt.c: init vars
14:20.25CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36976 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/nirt.c:
14:20.25CIA-38BRL-CAD: there probably be little dragons here. replace the strip_crlf() win32-specific
14:20.25CIA-38BRL-CAD: hack with a more generalized solution that just trims space on the line parsed
14:20.25CIA-38BRL-CAD: in. it's not clear why they even matter with bu_fgets() reading in lines
14:20.27CIA-38BRL-CAD: portably other than it printing \n\r's into the result string (which then also
14:20.29CIA-38BRL-CAD: just begs for space trimming). untested.
14:46.02``Erikhm, \r\n is ansi, unix kinda cheats
15:05.12brlcaddoesn't change anything
15:05.37brlcadgood grief, the step converter code is a headache :)
15:06.58brlcadgoing through some basic mods and cleanup, and .. d-d-d-damn are the headers/decls in disarray
15:07.17brlcadcascade failures
15:08.50brlcadheaders not including what they need, interfaces not coming first, replication of inclusions, ... this is going to take some work .. especially SCL stupidly naming a class BOOL of all things
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15:33.39starseekernote to self - check this out later:  http://users.iit.demokritos.gr/~petasis/Tcl/toolbar.tcl
15:36.51CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36977 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/ (13 files in 3 dirs):
15:36.51CIA-38BRL-CAD: rename the BOOL and BOOLS classes to BOOLEAN and BOOLEANS respectively so as not
15:36.51CIA-38BRL-CAD: to conflict with openNURBS (and other codes that commonly use BOOL as a simple
15:36.51CIA-38BRL-CAD: boolean type). this also conveniently makes the class name lengths match the
15:36.51CIA-38BRL-CAD: corresponding LOGICAL and LOGICALS classes. unsure about the Bool->Boolean
15:36.53CIA-38BRL-CAD: declarations and how they come into play, alas, so have to see if those need to
15:36.55CIA-38BRL-CAD: be unrolled for the actual step parsing.
15:42.03brlcadthat commit likely breaks compile when coupled with the previous, fixing
15:42.06CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36978 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (13 files):
15:42.06CIA-38BRL-CAD: beginning of massive header and type inclusion cleanup. header inclusion
15:42.06CIA-38BRL-CAD: ordering of c++ needs to be cleaned up. avoiding inclusion of std namespace.
15:42.06CIA-38BRL-CAD: formatting/ws/indent cleanup. opening braces. work in progress with more on
15:42.06CIA-38BRL-CAD: the way.
15:48.21brlcadwonders how much of this will be for moot
15:48.23CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36979 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (19 files): use the updated (Boolean) and (BOOLEAN) instead of (Bool) and (BOOL), so as to avoid a conflict with other codes.
15:50.08brlcadmm, looks like that at least got closer to compile
15:55.24CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36980 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (Factory.cpp Factory.h): cleanup, declare interface headers, reorder accordingly; consistent formatting
16:03.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36981 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (Factory.cpp Factory.h): oops, already had forward decl on STEPEntity. only needed for the implementation.
16:07.21CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36982 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/OpenNurbsInterfaces.cpp: SurfaceTree is in the brlcad namespace
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16:34.35CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36983 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (PullbackCurve.cpp PullbackCurve.h): more brlcad namespace qualifications, cleanup ws indent and brace formatting
16:58.01starseekeris rather puzzled... if I uncomment the line *fbp = tk_interface in dm-tk.c, mged initialization failes with a bad alloc without ever hitting that line...
16:58.32starseekeroh, wait...
16:58.36starseekerit's something else
16:58.50starseekerhmm...
17:35.51CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36984 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/step-g.cpp: ws indent cleanup, remove using, comments, etc
17:45.34starseekero.O
17:45.43starseeker../src/conv/asc2g ../../brlcad/db/terra.asc terra.g
17:45.43starseekerERROR: bad pointer x106efb00: s/b rt_db_internal(xdbbd867), was Unknown_Magic(x5625), file ../../../brlcad/src/librt/primitives/dsp/dsp.c, line 256
17:45.46starseekerERROR: bad pointer x106efb00: s/b rt_db_internal(xdbbd867), was Unknown_Magic(x5625), file ../../../brlcad/src/librt/primitives/dsp/dsp.c, line 256
17:54.56starseekerdid something with that binary minor type change impact how dsp does its thing?
17:55.07starseekerhunts...
17:57.49brlcadstarseeker: very likely
17:58.14brlcador one of the checks I added is for the wrong object type
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18:42.07CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36986 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/STEPWrapper.cpp: compare pointer to NULL, not char
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19:45.20CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36990 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/Makefile.am:
19:45.20CIA-38BRL-CAD: create the directory before running xsltproc in order to avoid a race condition
19:45.20CIA-38BRL-CAD: that causes xsltproc to bail. also make the clean rule not fail on in-dir
19:45.20CIA-38BRL-CAD: builds (can't just remove the dir, especially if there are still (source) files
19:45.20CIA-38BRL-CAD: in there)
19:46.50starseekerbrlcad: except that doesn't work when we're building the spanish documentation
19:47.54starseekerat least, not for man1 and man3
19:48.07starseekerwould dirname work there too?
19:48.23starseekerno, guess not
19:48.25starseekerhrm
19:49.54starseekermaybe move the xml.1 and xml.3 rules to the system/man/$LANG directory makefiles?
19:50.38brlcadhm?
19:51.01starseekerwe have system/man1/en hardcoded into the build rules for .xml.1 and .xml.3
19:51.19brlcadI didn't modify the ones that are already hard-coded
19:51.27starseekerah, k
19:51.40starseekerso it's my fault :-)
19:51.42brlcadthey're still hard-coded, but presumably a similar trick will work
19:52.36starseekeryes, except I think xsltproc drops the .1 files in the current working directory of xsltproc, rather than a targeted output
19:52.49starseekerkinda sucks
19:53.19starseekeractually though...
19:53.38starseekerthe build rule should know where the thing is supposed to go, even if xsltproc doesn't do it
19:53.50starseekertries it
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20:00.05kristian-aalborghi all
20:00.30kristian-aalborgis there software available that will render a 3d model from a series of 2d pics?
20:01.00brlcaddepends what kind of 2d pics and the desired 3d model
20:01.05brlcadin general, no
20:02.30brlcadstarseeker: at a glance, looks like you're only conditionally building the .es fiels
20:02.38brlcadsuggest always building all languages
20:05.30kristian-aalborgI'm thinking if I can take some pics of a thing like a cofee cup and have it made into 3d
20:05.34CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36991 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/Makefile.am: try generalizing the dir creation
20:05.52brlcadkristian-aalborg: heh, done much 3d modeling before?
20:06.00kristian-aalborgnone ;)
20:06.27kristian-aalborgbut I've seen a bunch of sci-fi movies ;)
20:07.42brlcadyeah, it doesn't quite work like that
20:08.18starseekerbrlcad: yeah, I was thinking unless a user explicitly asked for all languages they wouldn't want the overhead of doing all the building for all the languagues
20:09.19starseekerheh - beat me to it
20:09.39starseekerwell, that's better anyway :-)
20:11.12starseekerbrlcad: oh, how do I do a "this OR this" if case in a makefile?  I haven't been able to track down an example yet
20:15.03starseekerconfirmed - generalizing logic appears to work
20:15.11starseekerthat's SWEET
20:17.16``Eriksits around yelling "enhance" at his computer screen O.o :D
20:17.35starseeker``Erik: do I get yelled at if I always build all docbook all the time?
20:17.54starseekeris willing to do it if ``Erik promises not to hurt him
20:18.11``Erikheh, but the dependancy chain is fugly
20:18.21``Erikxsltproc and java for fop?
20:18.41starseekerno, no - turning on Spanish and English for all docs always
20:19.11starseekerso not only would you be building English, you'd be building the Spanish versions, and the Russian versions, and the Esperanto versions... ;-P
20:19.45``ErikI imagine klingon would be on that list before russian or esperanto ... :D
20:19.55starseekerprobably, given our user audience
20:20.40``Erik*shrug* I complain about dependancy sets, not product ;)
20:20.59starseekerhas observed ``Erik complainin about build time here and there
20:21.29``Eriknoting significant increases, not complaining about
20:21.30``Erik:)
20:21.39starseekeralrightie
20:21.59starseekergoes for broke
20:34.23brlcadnot that big a deal time-wise until there are more than a couple languages, completely translated
20:34.38brlcadand by the time that happens, I doubt compilation time will be the issue
20:34.42starseekertrue :-)
20:34.59starseekerI ripped out the lang flags, testing now before committing
20:38.58brlcadhm, the .es conversion I got from the first lesson doesn't render so hot
20:38.59brlcadas html
20:39.21starseekerfont issue?
20:43.10CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36992 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 8 dirs): Purge the language configuration option and build all languages all the time, per Sean's suggestion
20:44.08starseekerwell, between that and tkpng I now feel rather uselss :-/
20:44.51starseekerback to framebuffer diving
20:45.10brlcadencoding issue
20:45.18brlcadall accents are junked up
20:45.29brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/~sean/tmp/mged01_crear_figuras_primitivas.html
20:45.51starseekerah, that thing
20:46.40starseekerI think that's the htaccess file for Apache - needs AddDefaultCharset UTF-8
20:47.14starseekersee doc/docbook/README
21:40.23brlcadmake[3]: *** No rule to make target `system/man3/en/libfb.html', needed by `all'.  Stop.
21:40.38starseekerconfound it
21:42.03starseekerummm.... for me it succeeded
21:42.15starseekerbrlcad: what platform are you on?
21:45.49brlcaddid you distcheck?
21:46.31starseekerah
21:46.34starseekerdistchecks
21:59.22starseekerhah, cool:  http://www.bootchart.org/images/bootchart.png
22:19.04starseekerbrlcad: I can reproduce the failure, trying to figure out what's causing it...
22:21.12starseekeroh, der
22:22.13CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36993 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/Makefile.am: Whoops. Add MAN3 sources to EXTRA_DIST so distcheck brings them along for the ride.
22:22.58starseekerhey, cool:  http://code.google.com/p/tufte-latex/
22:23.12starseekerwonders how long before someone tries tufte-docbook
22:43.24brlcadheh, http://people.ucsc.edu/~weissman/MathClubTalk2009.pdf
22:44.46brlcadthinks starseeker should work up a tufte stylesheet
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22:46.51starseekerbrlcad: I suppose that would kinda be the ultimate "non-default" look wouldn't it? :-)
22:47.57brlcadultimate?
22:48.19brlcadcertainly different, but of a good kind
22:48.23starseekercrappy default vs. Tufte polished :-)
22:48.36brlcadultimate would be a lot more glossified
22:49.43starseekerwonders what we would put in the side columns of a layout like that...
22:51.22starseekeralso wonders why the best looking gantt chart he's seen from an open source tool is a special purpose java tool for boot process illustration... arrgh
23:05.54Nohlaholas
23:05.59starseekerhola :-)
23:06.07starseekerhow goes it?
23:10.16Nohlatired :P
23:10.46starseekerheh - school?
23:10.59Nohlano, life :)
23:11.15starseekerdid you find a projector that would work?
23:11.58NohlaI think so,  a friend bought one two months ago
23:12.16Nohlamaybe I'll buy the same in the same place
23:12.55NohlaIt's a good one and cost the price I can pay
23:15.07starseekercrosses his fingers that Microvision actually delivers this: http://www.microvision.com/showwx/index.html
23:35.53Nohlastarseeker thought I thought maybe translate the menu of the program would be more effective
23:36.07Nohlawhat do you think?
23:36.46starseekerNohla: that would be helpful, but you really do need to read the docs to use BRL-CAD
23:36.50starseekereven in English :-)
23:37.03starseekerplus, we aren't set up to use gettext
23:37.49Nohlathe most of people try until learn before to read anything
23:38.10starseekeryes, which is why we don't have more users
23:38.21starseekerthat doesn't work with our current interface
23:39.30Nohlaok
23:40.07NohlaI'll try to finish the second before next week
23:40.53Nohlaand third before my birthday, but I cant promise :P
23:41.16starseekerno problem :-)
23:41.17starseekerno rush
23:42.34Nohlafuck, I hate children, they cry all day!!
23:43.46Nohlasorry, you never expected that from women a woman
23:44.10Nohlasorry, you never expected that from a woman
23:44.59starseekerno problem - stuck with a loud child?
23:45.55Nohlamy neighbour :P
23:46.29brlcadNohla: jaja
23:46.30Nohlaand his fuckn backyard
23:47.20Nohlastarseeker did you see that PDF has no images again?
23:47.56starseekerhmm?  which one?
23:48.15Nohlathe one in /lessons/es
23:48.21starseekererm.
23:48.31Nohlahtml is ok
23:48.44starseekerI haven't checked lately - perhaps I messed it up somehow
23:49.05starseekerNohla: you are abile to build successfully?
23:49.09starseekerable even
23:49.42Nohlayes, brlcad helped me
23:49.48starseekerah, excellent
23:49.58starseekerI will check when I get home - this machine doesn't have fop
23:50.29brlcadyou helped yourself, I just pointed
23:51.25Nohlabrlcad that was a difficul day :P when I ask for some minutes is because I really need them :P
23:51.45brlcadyou did great
23:52.04starseekerbrlcad: ah, finally - distcheck passed on my Mac :-)
23:52.23brlcadgets the invoice filled out
23:52.36brlcadstarseeker: oh, could have told you that mine passed ;)
23:52.37starseekerinvoice?
23:52.47starseekerah - hehe
23:52.49brlcadgsoc invoice, finally got the purchase order
23:53.00starseekernods
23:53.14brlcadthey got things mixed up the first time around
23:53.20starseekeroh, lovely
23:53.51brlcadnothing bad, just delayed things
23:54.54starseekerwell, if my distcheck passes and yours does too, I'm going home :-P
23:55.19starseekermaybe next year I'll manage to do something I won't have to back out within a week :-/
23:56.37starseekerthe problem of passing local library locations to subconfigure systems I think remains very real though - the only "correct" solution I can see is to get TEA and automake to make nice and then send out a bunch of patches to our favorite src/other libraries
23:57.33Nohlastarseeker for the xml there is a maximum character length per line
23:57.35Nohla?
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23:57.54starseekerNohla: build system issues
23:58.00starseekerNohla: not related to docbook
23:58.13starseekeroh, you're asking?
23:58.20Nohlayes
23:58.26Nohlasorry: is there
23:59.01starseekernot really a maximum limit, but try to stay around 80 - readable formatting is more important than max character length
23:59.35starseekerdrives home, back on later
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091223

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091223

00:00.36Nohlastarseeker because I remind the first error that said something similar
00:01.08Nohlafirst line too long, more than 80, I can't remember exactly
00:01.42NohlaI can check that before to send it
00:03.10Nohlawith "radio" refers to the angle of view of design?
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00:19.11brlcadradio is a type of button
00:20.36Nohla? didn't understand
00:20.48Nohlaremember I've never used the program, sorry
00:21.09brlcadit depends what it's talking about
00:21.30brlcadcould be an actual radio (listening device) that is to be modeled
00:21.45brlcador could be referring to a "radio button" .. which are buttons that toggle
00:22.14brlcadboto'n de opcio'n
00:22.23brlcadhttp://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bot?n_de_opci?n
00:29.34``Erikprods ogre some O.o
00:31.53brlcadwoot
00:40.51``ErikI like how half the samples just crash
00:42.08brlcadhuh, last I tried them, they all worked
00:42.17brlcadyou running from binary or built?
00:42.37``Erikbinary sdk, then compiled the sample set
00:45.37brlcadhuh
00:47.16``Erikcmake flips out and goes into a loop when I try to make the subversion checkout, so I grabbed the 1.4.9 dmg and opened the xcode project in the Samples/ dir
00:48.18``Erik(okra/buclet might make ogre more fun than panda3d)
00:53.25``Erika C wrapper for ogre, heh :/ dang c++
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04:54.14starseekerheh - cool http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/12/reactors-gallery/all/1
04:54.43starseekeris surprised the publishers were sometimes lax about saving something like that - those suckers must have taken a LOT of work
04:55.28starseekerbe a cool style of drawing to attempt recreating with CAD 3d exports - reminds me of a siggraph paper from this year in fact
04:57.02starseekerbet Tufte would love those - talk about information density...
04:57.22starseekermakes more room in his "useless cool crap" section on the terabyte drive...
05:00.05brlcadstarseeker: so can the dms be fully toggled now?
05:11.06starseekertests on gentoo again
05:26.21starseekerheh... back on topic... sorry
05:42.09talcitedoes anyone know whether jama is version 1.2.5 or 1.25?
05:42.43talciteTheir project development practices are really killing me =/. No previous versions available, no tracker, just a zip file. Not even a readme in the zip
05:45.05talciteoh wait, found it... In some obscure corner of the website =/
05:45.18talcite1.2.5 incase you were wondering
06:15.00starseekerblinks
06:15.13starseeker$ mged
06:15.13starseekerX Error of failed request:  BadAlloc (insufficient resources for operation) Major opcode of failed request:  53 (X_CreatePixmap) Serial number of failed request:  31 Current serial number in output stream:  32
06:20.24starseekerhmm...
06:20.35starseekermged -c and attaching X fails the same way
06:20.39starseekerogl succeeds
06:21.03starseekerrtgl fails with gedp->ged_gvp null at dm-rtgl.c:1597
06:22.42starseekerhmm - even more interesting - if I first bring up ogl and THEN rtgl using an additional attach command, rtgl comes up
06:23.29starseekerand closing rtgl kills ogl too - looks like killing rtgl nukes the ogl context
06:23.52starseekerbrlcad: so to answer your question from earlier, looks like the answer is still no :-(
06:24.53starseekerwonder if I did anything stupid...
06:24.58starseekersvn status says...
06:25.21starseekernope
06:25.42starseekermust sleep on this...
06:30.13talcitethere. package for JAMA is created. TNT will be done when I get back to my desktop.
06:34.25talciteHow are things going with the STEP and Utah upstream?
06:35.26brlcadstarseeker: that failure is probably my libdm mods from last week
06:35.55brlcadtalcite: it's in the queue, I did mention it'd take at least a week or two ;)
06:36.23talcitebrlcad: haha yes, that's true.
06:37.05talcitedid we end up saying we would strip the tkhtml3 code out and release as a project? I can't remember for that one specifically
06:42.37brlcadI don't recall that exactly being said
06:43.08brlcadI think the idea is to still to try and work with the upstream authors to get some activity going, access granted, or fork it off
06:43.22brlcadin that order of priority
06:49.01talcitehmm alright. I'll get in touch with the authors
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07:13.39CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36994 10/brlcad/trunk/autogen.sh: merge from upstream to get commit 3dcfb77ebb2df9ac50fe7c33232b9e2b38720a92 (spelling fixes) to match the 2009.12.23 release.
07:16.09brlcadfg
07:27.45talcitebrlcad: vim user eh? Do you recall ever doing anything to remove the lemon parser from tkHtml?
07:28.20talciteit's not in our source tree, yet it's being compiled from the native tkhtml3 package
07:31.26talcitebrlcad: also, just got a reply from the tkhtml3 dev
07:31.41talcite"It is not actively maintained as far as I know. Unfortunately. -Dan."
07:32.23talcitecan we make sure tkhtml3 is included in the list of projects to fork/claim ownership of please?
07:32.41talcitealright. That's it for me tonight. Long day tomorrow. Night all
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12:08.59sunnyleehi
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14:02.07``Erikhas been seeing the BadAlloc for a while now, couple weeks at least O.o
14:02.42``Erikhappens both locally on my mac and when I try to run it on BSD and use remote X
14:47.01brlcadstill probably my doing
14:47.11brlcadmight have been two weeks ago
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15:59.05CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36995 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/ (Makefile.am license.txt):
15:59.05CIA-38BRL-CAD: include the more legally explicit language shown on
15:59.06CIA-38BRL-CAD: http://opennurbs.org/docs.htm where rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish,
15:59.06CIA-38BRL-CAD: distribute, sublicense, and sell are clearly granted. the language in the
15:59.06CIA-38BRL-CAD: readme.txt has the same intention, but not nearly as well-stated with loose
15:59.08CIA-38BRL-CAD: language, so include the website text here verbatim alongside the sources to
15:59.10CIA-38BRL-CAD: avoid confusion and doubt.
16:03.26brlcadhm!
16:03.31brlcadThe ON_BrepLoop::m_type member records the type of boundary (inner, outer, etc.). A ON_BrepFace has exactly one outer loop and it is the first loop referenced in the ON_BrepFace::m_li[] array. The inner loops all define "holes" in the ON_BrepFace. All of the inner holes lie inside of the outer loop. A ON_BrepFace is always path connected. In particular, inner loops are not "nested".
16:03.43brlcadneeded that statement a couple months ago
16:30.23starseekerbrlcad: oh, sorry :-) I think Keith and I had figured it out, but we hadn't documented it anywhere (yet)
16:31.29starseekerwonders if we should suck in any available opennurbs docs off the wiki to have in the repository...
16:50.01brlcadstarseeker: that was before it was figured out
16:51.18brlcadkeith and I were talking about it as well, in particular whether nested loops were possible, which wasn't known at the time
16:51.54brlcadno need to import their wiki docs
17:22.44CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36996 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_line.cpp: apply a bug fix reported by Peter Salzmann (Aug 2009) where calculating the minimum distance to a line was getting calculated wrong. ahh the beauty of open source eyes catching a one-character bug.
17:54.43brlcadposted to the opennurbs forum about indianlarry's relative tolerancing mod to ON_Brep::IsValidLoop()
19:05.56starseekerhops on the opennurbs forum
19:06.40starseekerrolls up his sleeves - time to sort through our diffs to the vanilla opennurbs tarball and identify stuff we aren't using anymore
19:09.18starseekerdo that before we drift any further away, since we're accumulating changes we want to maintain going forward
19:17.43starseekergets newest tarball and raises eyerows - date stamps are Sept 24th
19:18.08starseekerversion 200909255 - opennurbs V5 first release
19:18.12starseekerhrm
19:18.58indianlarrylet's start over ;^)
19:20.34starseekerhehe
19:20.59starseekerwill merge in changes to this version and give it a try
19:21.21starseekermight as well
19:34.52starseekerhmm.  Hadn't notice this before.  We've set openNURBS to hardcoded inclusion of ../zlib/zlib.h
19:35.27starseekerthat means it won't use a system zlib even if our configure tells it to...
19:36.11``Erikor it'll compile with the included and link against the system and ya'd better hope the API didn't change
19:37.14starseekerright
19:37.37starseekerwe shouldn't do that - we have zlib.h includes in other code and aren't hardcoding that...
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19:46.11starseekeryeah, NumIntersectionsWith is used only in code that is called in commented out code... if that needs to come back should probably be somewhere other than src/other/openNurbs...
19:51.02brlcadstarseeker: that just means it'l use that header .. fortunately, zlib hasn't changed incompatibly in probably a decade
19:51.19starseekerbrlcad: ok, so not a big deal?
19:51.23brlcadnot really
19:51.33brlcaddidn't see that v5 was posted, cool
19:51.40starseekerwas all set to figure out the right compile flags to add to Makefile.am...
19:51.46brlcadgo for it
19:51.58starseekeryeah, caught me by surprise too - was just downloading to get a vanilla tarball
19:52.17brlcadcomes up with a pie chart breakdown he's happy with
19:52.29starseekernoticed a couple default: conditions have been added that we had in our code :-)
19:52.47starseekerlooks like the sgi and sun compiler stuff didn't make the cut
19:53.13starseekerbrlcad: ah, the fun and glory of pie chart making :-)
20:00.36brlcadyeah, this is working out nicely
20:00.41brlcadthe power of eights!
20:05.23``Erikeight is great?
20:16.58CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36997 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: start stubbing in adrt build
20:17.12CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36998 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/libbu/adrt.vcproj: start stubbing in adrt build
20:17.28``Erikdangit
20:17.42``Erikeh? O.o odddd
20:19.04starseekerbrlcad: what was it about the z_ prefix in opennurbs_zlib that prevented system zlib use - are the z_prefixed functions not defined?
20:20.10starseekeroh, I see
20:20.16starseekerreads svn logs...
20:21.45CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r36999 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/adrt/ (. adrt.vcproj): start stubbing in adrt build
20:22.19``Erik<PROTECTED>
20:22.30CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r37000 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/libbu/adrt.vcproj: start stubbing in adrt build
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20:35.36starseekeroh, oops - I was reading the diff backwards - we actually do the zlib system call - it's opennurbs that doesnt :-P
20:35.40starseekergoodie :-)
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20:47.46CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r37001 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/load.c: type hacketry to quell warning
20:47.57CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r37002 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (libtie/tie_struct.h load.h): remove unnecessary (?) include
20:53.38CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r37003 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/adrt/adrt.vcproj: add include dir's
20:55.11``Erikand now I flee and let bob unbreak things O:-) mwahahaha
20:55.57CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r37004 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/librt/librt.vcproj: add metaball tesselator file
21:04.37starseekerheh - newest opennurbs has the DistanceTo(A) fix :-)
21:04.48brlcadyeah, I figured it would
21:05.07starseekerOK, let's stick this baby in for a compile test...
21:05.31brlcadthe discussion was pre v5 posting, makes sense
22:00.30starseekerok, successful nurbs raytrace using v5
22:01.00starseekerannnnd confirmation of X11 issues on Mac, too
22:01.12starseekerhooks gdb up to see what bus errored
22:01.48starseekerstrncmp - wha??
22:01.59starseekerPrevious frame inner to this frame (corrupt stack?)
22:02.46starseekeroh, must be related to the BadAlloc
22:03.00starseekeranyhoo, time for an opennurbs checkin :-)
22:21.50starseekerhmm, definitely some new files
22:31.06CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r37005 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/ (243 files in 9 dirs): (log message trimmed)
22:31.06CIA-38BRL-CAD: Update to version 200909255 - opennurbs V5 first release. Have attempted to
22:31.06CIA-38BRL-CAD: merge in all related fixes from previous BRL-CAD openNURBS version, but this
22:31.07CIA-38BRL-CAD: merge deliberately removes special purpose code used in earlier attemps at NURBS
22:31.08CIA-38BRL-CAD: raytracing. Some of this code is still used and will reappear in
22:31.10CIA-38BRL-CAD: opennurbs_ext.cpp and opennurbs_ext.h - ideally all changes now present in
22:31.12CIA-38BRL-CAD: src/other/openNURBS will be related to compiler specific issues, using external
22:32.51CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r37006 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
22:32.51CIA-38BRL-CAD: Move some code that had been added to openNURBS into opennurbs_ext.cpp and
22:32.51CIA-38BRL-CAD: opennurbs_ext.h. Also, turn off old (now unused) function calls to function
22:32.51CIA-38BRL-CAD: calls previously defined as additions inside src/other/openNURBS but are not
22:32.51CIA-38BRL-CAD: part of the current raytracing routines.
22:34.20starseekerponders if that is worth a NEWS item...
22:35.31starseekerruns distcheck
22:56.04CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r37007 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: Er, oops - update EXTRA_DIST with files that have been removed.
23:13.51CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r37008 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: Whoops - yeah this fix didn't seem to apply to this version, so don't tack in float.h
23:23.52CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r37009 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_memory.c: looks like the fix from r36512 still applies
23:41.45CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r37010 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/ (BRL-CAD_changes.txt Makefile.am):
23:41.45CIA-38BRL-CAD: Add a file describing what changes have been made from vanilla openNURBS and why
23:41.45CIA-38BRL-CAD: - intent is to make the merger of the next release (whenever that happens)
23:41.45CIA-38BRL-CAD: easier. Start from this revision and the contents of this file - will need to
23:41.46CIA-38BRL-CAD: evaluate all the changes documented here in any new version to see if they a) no
23:41.48CIA-38BRL-CAD: longer apply b) have been incorporated or c) are no longer needed. Then start
23:41.50CIA-38BRL-CAD: from this revision and evaluate any further revisions.
23:42.41starseekerdistcheck on r37077 passes
23:42.48starseekergoes to grab supper
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091224

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091224

00:56.19``Eriknew breakage in opennurbs, huzzah
01:01.22CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r37011 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_memory.c: try not to reference things that don't exist
02:19.00starseekerblinks - wonder how that compiled on my Mac then...
02:22.15``Erikgot me, mebbe a timestamp issue left the old object file?
02:22.44starseekerlooks like that should be p != p, rather than memblock... wonder why they renamed it
02:22.47starseekerah well
02:23.06``Erikeither way, it's a punt
02:23.34starseekerhmm?  I thought Sean threw that into the old code base
02:23.42``Erikprobably an 'unused variable' hack
02:24.00starseekerwill it cause you breakage either way?
02:24.12starseekeryeah, it was warning quellage
02:25.09``Erikif it were return p != p; it woulda been fine... did you upgade the existing code with a patch?
02:25.30starseekernah, just didn't check carefully enough whether that variable name had changed
02:25.35starseekermy bad
02:26.15``Erikokie, allz I saw was an error about an undefined variable, didn't turn on strict flags
02:26.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r37012 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/ (BRL-CAD_changes.txt opennurbs_memory.c): Er, whoops - thanks Erik. p != p might work better when the variable name changed to p...
02:26.38``Erikkinda care more about mged getting the BadAlloc... rt -F/dev/Xl works fine
02:26.41starseeker``Erik: actually a lot of our changes disappeared
02:27.00starseekerwas more concerned about minimizing our changes to openNURBS without breaking the raytracer
02:27.06starseekeryeah
02:27.20starseekerpulls the libdm logs for the last few weeks...
02:27.35starseekermged is kinda foobared at the moment
02:28.12``Erikactually, at the moment, I care more about reading a webcomic and being a cat matress, but *shrug* :)
02:28.19starseekerheh
02:28.31starseekerhopes like hell it wasn't his libdm changes
02:29.04``Erikit's been doing it for a bit, I figured one of ya'll messing with that tsuff woulda noticed it, all my work has been lower level
02:29.08starseekeroh, it might be r36844
02:29.23``Erikg2asc/asc2g, adrt, and librt crud
02:29.27starseekercome to think of it I remember something about that
02:29.49``Erikwhich is about as close to mged as I care to mess... still have flashbacks about edsol.c
03:01.09CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r37013 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-X.c: Back out some dm-X changes causing breakage on Mac and Linux platforms - trying to preserve some of the more recent changes to drawLine3d functions.
03:12.05``Erikwhuddya know, mged starts up now :D
03:31.00CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r37014 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
03:31.00CIA-38BRL-CAD: Compile gotchas on gentoo - FALSE returning as not defined in a couple files -
03:31.00CIA-38BRL-CAD: looks like this was coming in from opennurbs and is gone with the latest update
03:31.00CIA-38BRL-CAD: - just go with 0; also include assert.h in brep.cpp since it's not getting
03:31.00CIA-38BRL-CAD: pulled in through opennurbs any more.
03:58.59CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r37015 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (5 files): FALSE and assert.h tweaks for proc-db
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06:08.22starseekerblinks - well, rtgl -> ogl -> rtgl and rtgl -> X -> rtgl both just succeeded on gentoo
06:11.07starseekerand we've got a nurbs raytrace
06:11.30starseekeraaaand csgbrep barfs
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11:24.15csanyipalHi,
11:25.19csanyipalWhen I install brlcad from SVN must I delete first the /usr/brlcad directory?
11:25.31csanyipalthe system is Debian GNU/Linux Lenny.
11:42.43csanyipalWhen run 'make' after './configure --enable-optimized',
11:42.50csanyipalI get error messages:
11:43.01csanyipalmake[2]: *** [region_end.lo] Error 1
11:43.01csanyipalmake[2]: Leaving directory `/debian-adatok-1/CAD/BRL-CAD/SVN/brlcad/src/libgcv'
11:43.01csanyipalmake[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
11:43.01csanyipalmake[1]: Leaving directory `/debian-adatok-1/CAD/BRL-CAD/SVN/brlcad/src'
11:43.02csanyipalmake: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
11:43.11csanyipalAny solutions?
11:44.30doceliccsanyipal, you didn't paste the actuall errors
11:44.48csanyipaldocelic: ?
11:45.07csanyipalregion_end.c: In function ‘gcv_region_end’:
11:45.07csanyipalregion_end.c:38: error: argument ‘curtree’ might be clobbered by ‘longjmp’ or ‘vfork’
11:45.28docelicthat is the real error.
11:45.52csanyipaldocelic: thanks. How can I resolve it?
11:47.54docelicdon't know about this one, see Google for "might be clobbered by". Also, (my guess), I think this is usually a warning, which is an error here because of some compile options which say to treat all warnings as errors. So if you can't solve it, maybe you can tell ./configure to not treat warnings as errors, and it'll go forwarsd
11:48.29csanyipaldocelic: thanks! :)
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14:22.35``Erikthat's from strict flags, turn'em off and it'll compile
14:38.40csanyipal``Erik: how can I turn'em off?
14:41.38csanyipalCan I do this with --disable-warnings ?
14:41.45starseekerI think it's --disable-strict
14:41.58starseekeralthough brlcad might have changed it - give that a try
14:42.13csanyipalstarseeker: ok.
14:47.08CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r37016 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libgcv/Makefile.am: forcibly disable strict flags until the jump clobber issue can be sorted out.
14:50.11csanyipalCIA-38: does this line: 'r37016...' mean that I can checkout again SVN and try to compile??
14:51.11starseekeryes
14:51.12``ErikCIA is a bot that reports commits
14:51.24csanyipalok
15:30.45csanyipalI run make successfully, now I run make benchmark.
15:32.25csanyipalmake benchmark is comlpete now.
15:32.59csanyipalI'm send now the benchmakr results to benchmark@brlcad.org.
15:33.58``Erikyou did use --enable-optimized on yoru configure, correct?
15:34.35csanyipalI did the following:
15:34.37csanyipal./configure --enable-optimized
15:34.42csanyipalmake -j2
15:34.48csanyipalmake benchmark
15:34.52csanyipalso far.
15:34.55``Erikok, good, then you have good numbers
15:35.15csanyipalyes: Benchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 4614
15:35.24csanyipalLogarithmic VGR metric is 3,66  (natural logarithm is 8,44)
15:37.33csanyipalI have send the benchmark results to benchmark@brlcad.org.
15:38.21csanyipalBefore sudo make install should I delete the /usr/brlcad directory?
15:39.43csanyipalor it will be overwritten during installation?
15:40.00csanyipalI have an old brlcad installation here.
15:40.43csanyipalI think it's better to delete this directory, isn't?
15:51.31csanyipalI have installed now brlcad. Just to find out how to setup PATH so I can run on xterm (urxvt) the 'mged' command.
15:52.02csanyipalI'm using Window Maker window manager with gdm.
15:52.24csanyipalthank you for help!
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17:41.31brlcadvolks, can disable strict with: make STRICT_FLAGS=
17:41.39brlcaddon't have to reconfigure
17:41.57brlcadotehrwise, reconfigure with --disable-strict should shut it off too
17:42.27csanyipaloh
17:43.59brlcadcsanyipal: no worries for you, you have a build :)
17:44.14brlcadturning it off in the Makefile.am works too, which is what that commit did
17:44.14csanyipalof course.. :)
17:44.52brlcadyou don't have to set path if you don't want to, just have to write the whole path: /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
17:45.15brlcadotherwise for bash: export PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH
17:45.24csanyipali have set ip up now in .bashrc
17:45.30brlcadnods
17:45.33csanyipalset it up
17:45.53brlcadmerry christmas and thanks :)
17:46.05csanyipalok :)
17:46.52csanyipalmerry christmas for all of you here too!
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20:13.05starseekerhmm.  csgbrep works on the mac
20:13.29starseekerboy gentoo is unforgiving when it comes to this stuff...
20:13.34starseekerwhich is a good thing I guess
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20:27.50yukonbobMerry [almost] Christmas, #brlcad.
20:30.19starseekerbrlcad: wonder if it would be worth checking if Archer works with the itcl 4.0b3 code?  looks like that version of itcl has been crafted to play nice with the new TclOO stuff
20:35.04yukonbobstarseeker: iirc, itcl-ng (i.e. 4.x) is _not_ really ready. I'd have to surf around to find reference...
20:35.32starseekerhttp://wiki.tcl.tk/19873 is what I was looking at...
20:36.42yukonbobI'm reviewing same, atm...
20:40.12yukonbobI forget where I saw it (avoid itcl-ng), but it stuck in my mind. The choice of BRL-CAD to dig into Tcl8.5b, and the itcl-ng, etc., caused a lot of churn on my system, which I still haven't actually recovered from. Picking proper itcl was on my List of Things, and like I said, iirc (I should have kept better notes) itcl-ng is -not- the way to go (atm).
20:41.26starseekerwhat churn did it cause?
20:42.15starseekerwe're going to want tcl/tk 8.6 - among other things, their Aqua support on the mac will be targeting Cocoa itself
20:42.31starseekerdunno if itcl 3.x can work on 8.6
20:51.47yukonbobstarseeker: at the time (a while ago), brl-cad required a beta tcl/tk; on NetBSD, I had setup the brl-cad distribution to build only the minimal requirements and use pre-installed pkgs for rest...
20:52.08yukonbob(i.e. use pre-existing tcl, tk, utah, etc., etc)
20:52.35yukonbobnot having the beta tcl/tk threw that into a tailspin, until I got everything working w/ 8.4 again...
20:53.13yukonbobanyway, long story short, I didn't stay caught-up, and now don't have a working brl-cad using in-system pkgs, which is the way I'm trying to pursue the install...
20:53.38yukonbobI haven't had time to dedicate to sovling as I did in past either :P
20:54.02yukonbob8.6 is still a way out, from my understanding talking w/ coreteam.
20:57.10starseekerah, yes - on-system packaging is a problem
20:57.40yukonbobI had it solved, but that was some time ago.
20:57.50starseekeror can be rather
20:57.57yukonbobIt's my holy grail to reattain that
20:58.04yukonbobthen try to maintain.
20:58.32starseekerarcher is now using the new ttk widgets, so the minimum system tk will need to support those
20:58.59yukonbob8.5 == ttk, and indeed, I believe 8.4 has ttk as  a package....
20:59.10yukonbob"tile"
20:59.29starseekeryes, but I can't remember if tile uses the ttk prefix
20:59.39yukonbobneither
21:00.08starseekerthe ttk widgets are a considerable improvement in the visual appearance department
21:00.09yukonbobtcl/tk == the stuff I'm pretty familiar with -- indeed, it was the vector that led me to brl-cad ;)
21:00.17yukonbobstarseeker: yup
21:00.44yukonboband native OS X will be really nice, too. 8.6 is certainly going to bring even more goodness to tcl
21:00.49starseekermust become familiar - the time has come for a working Tk display manager and frame buffer
21:01.15starseekeryukonbob: do you happen to be familiar with togl?
21:02.32yukonbobstarseeker: short answer: no
21:02.55starseekerbemusedly watches the tk display manager crash in X11 Tk on the mac where it (sort) worked under Aqua
21:04.20starseekeryukonbob: I have a tendency to wander down the "ooo this is an interesting Tcl/Tk library" path
21:05.04yukonbobstarseeker: there are a fscking tonne of them out there...
21:05.18starseekeryukonbob: my current "ooo shiny" fixations are on togl and RamDebugger
21:05.19yukonbobit's an interesting path, and I can relate to you in that regard ;)
21:05.36yukonbob?ramdebugger
21:05.51starseekerhttp://www.compassis.com/ramdebugger
21:07.16yukonbobhttp://wiki.tcl.tk/17771
21:08.01starseekerI've yet to get and BRL-CAD running successfully in the same bwish session, but friendly Tcl debugging would be nice...
21:08.12starseekerah yes, tcl3d :-)
21:08.23starseekerthey even have an osg binding, iirc
21:08.39yukonbobramdebugger looks neat.
21:09.09starseekermain concern I had with tcl3d is how portable it is
21:09.12yukonbobusually uses some kind of introspection, [puts], and gdb, all in XEmacs
21:09.28starseekerI think it tcl3d sucks in togl, actually...
21:09.43yukonbobre: portability: /me nods -- no idea.
21:10.14starseekeryukonbob: my ideal would be to have RamDebugger fire up on an Archer Tcl/Tk error, politely pointing me to the offending source code line :-0
21:10.41starseekerdunno if it's any good, but non-commercial solutions in that space seem to be rather thin on the ground
21:12.17starseekerhmm - tcl3d sucks in gl2ps as well
21:12.21starseekerinteresting
21:12.37yukonbobI guess it depends on what kind of errors are tripping you up, but my experience has led me to [puts], gdb, xemacs
21:13.03yukonbobthat, and familiarity w/ Tcl and good practices, which only come w/ use.
21:13.18starseekerah, that's what made me wary of tcl3d - their swig files
21:13.30yukonbobyou don't like swig?
21:13.55starseekerwary of depending on it for key functionality - adds a core dependency on a translation tool
21:14.28starseekermight be the best/only way to do some things though
21:15.03starseekeryukonbob: with mged though, we have the option of talking directly to C apis insteadl of tcl scripting
21:15.44starseekerArcher is tcl scripting at the moment on top of wish, classic Tcl/Tk app - we're planning to make it run on top of its own C core the way mged does
21:15.54yukonbobnods
21:16.58yukonbobI'll try to make another push to get brl-cad running on my system (7.16.2) and start helping out again.
21:17.05starseekerobviously you can do tcl scripts in MGED as well - there are many examples - but it lets us build the core levels at the C level (see libdm and libfb :-)
21:17.20starseekeryukonbob: cool!  sounds great
21:17.30yukonbobused tcl extensively with mged.
21:17.31starseekeris the stable Tcl/Tk up to 8.5 now?
21:17.36yukonbobyup
21:17.47starseekerthat should make life simpler
21:18.31yukonbob8.6 Real Soon Now, but like I said, the understanding is it's a way in the future still... for a while, they were hoping to have it out of beta before Tcl Conference in Oregon in Sept; obviously didn't happen, and it's being pushed further and further out...
21:18.36yukonbobwhich I actually don't mind too much.
21:19.14starseekeras far as I know there are no "must have today!" features in 8.6 for BRL-CAD the way there were for 8.5 with ttk
21:19.35yukonbobstarseeker: re: simple life --- indeed. incr tcl/tk on my NetBSD were (are) an issue that I need to solve, and then push through the ./configure and getting brl-cad to recognize that stuff I'm offering to it so it doesn't build own utah, tcl, tk, etc., etc.
21:20.39yukonbobstarseeker: nice -- that'll help me push if I know it's results will last a while before having to rework for 8.6 ;)
21:21.46yukonbobI'll see what i can muster, and start bugging #brlcad for issues I run into to get this up/running.
21:21.53yukonbobmisses modelling :P
21:22.14starseeker<snort> given how long it looks to be before 8.6 is out, we'd better hope there are no necessary features...
21:22.35yukonbob"necessary" is a state of mind
21:22.40yukonbobthere are some neat things.
21:23.05yukonbobin-core OO, in-core database abstraction, NRE (non-recursive engine)
21:23.12yukonbobco-routines,
21:23.24yukonbobit's getting more lisp-y all the time.
21:23.43starseekeryukonbob: if 8.6 lets us run MGED and Archer in Aqua mode on the Mac and 8.5 doesn't (for whatever reason) I'd call that "necessary", but we could probably conditionalize for an Aqua build to demand 8.6 in that case
21:24.32starseekerin core OO would be nice, but that would require reworking our EXTENSIVE use of incrTcl throughout Archer  to target TclOO
21:24.40starseekerI believe the word for that is "eek"
21:25.38yukonbobstarseeker: I'm not clear on the implications of Tk rendering on OS X; look/feel, I guess, and not having to hack together look-alikes, because instead one simply uses native will reduce work on Tcl core team, and maybe(?) enhance end-users' experience, but otherwise, tcl/tk still work on OS X...
21:26.01yukonbobre: in-core OO
21:26.18yukonbob<PROTECTED>
21:26.38yukonbobthey are more low-level primitives that a user-facing OO system can use.
21:26.50starseekerTk rendering on OSX let's us run MGED and friends without needing an X11 server.  X11 on the Mac has been a little tempremental
21:27.13yukonboband they'll be common and standardized, so incr tcl can use, as well as snit, or any of other myriad OO systems can take advantage of.
21:27.40starseekerif we can get native libdm and libfb code in Tk, we can ditch X11 on the Mac completely and sidestep all the bugs :-)
21:27.42yukonbobdoes one currently need X11 to get a Tk window up on a mac?
21:27.49starseekeryes
21:27.53yukonbobhrm.
21:28.14yukonbobwell, that's be a very nice side effect.
21:28.26yukonbob(getting rid of X11 on Mac)
21:28.31starseekerat least, if you want properly working display manager and any sort of raytracing ;-)
21:28.39yukonbobanyway -- I should get back to my own coding.
21:28.59starseeker8.5 does indeed build aqua, only questions are stability, performance, etc.
21:29.01starseekercool
21:29.02yukonbob...and I'll take another stab at brl-cad on my system and see if I can get it up/running agin.
21:29.15starseekerMerry Christmas, and good luck!
21:29.28starseekerneeds to get outta here...
21:29.32yukonbobthx :) Merry Christmas to you too.
21:29.42yukonbobttyl starseeker
21:33.56starseekerah yes, tkpath... http://tclbitprint.sourceforge.net/tkpath/quartz/index.html :-)
21:34.06starseekergotta be some fun to be had there...
21:37.54starseekeror tkzinc
21:38.14starseekerstops himself and runs
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22:40.15talcitebrlcad: do we have a mailing list?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091225

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091225

00:32.40brlcadtalcite: of course, we have several
00:39.12talcitebrlcad: is there somewhere that lists them? I can't seem to locate them on the main site
00:40.03talcitebrlcad: I'd like to keep current on the development status of things, especially of the upstream takeovers
01:13.17starseekertalcite: irc is probably going to be at least as informative
01:13.57starseekerthe list of mailing lists is here:  http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad/support
01:14.02starseekersee Project Mailing Lists
01:24.20talciteI'll still be around for IRC, but I follow email much closer. Sometimes I just idle in the IRC channels
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02:29.53``Erik"that's wrong on more levels than I can even count, and they're both really basic levels, too!"
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05:53.17Ralithhehe
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16:42.30brlcadmerry christmas everyone!
18:06.47``Erikhappy kwanzaa
21:58.08``Erik"chocolate pizza" heh
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20091226

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091226

01:18.33*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@162.Red-81-32-97.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
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17:09.39talcitewooo. Jama and TNT have been approved and accepted for inclusion into rawhide
17:09.46brlcadawesome
19:20.07CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37017 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/grip/grip.c: quell verbose compilation warnings for grips
19:22.08CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37018 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/grip/grip.c: nix register hinting
19:38.23``Erikfind . -name '*.c' | xargs sed -i.bak 's/register //g'
19:38.24``ErikO:-)
19:39.49``ErikI don't think x86 CAN benefit from register painting like that, given how the ISA places special meaning on certain registers... :)
19:41.10brlcaddidn't want to do that without a full-blown performance profile optimized and unoptimized to compare it against under a stable config
19:41.28``Erikyeh
19:41.40``Erikwas just thinking about doing bench;sed;bench
19:41.43brlcadlast time I did that (10 years ago) it actually made an (small mesaureable) diff
19:41.53``Erikon which, o2?
19:41.59brlcaddunno
19:42.02brlcadit was a long time ago
19:42.15``Erikr10k chips, right? those had um, 32 gp registers and the opcodes specified which ones to use
19:42.18brlcadtested most things cross-plat back then
19:42.59``Erikthe asm for those was damn sexy, "addl $t0, $t1, $t2" or something, t0 = t1 + t2 (tX being the register)
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19:45.10``Erikgoes back to sorting and filing paperwork and waiting for tax paperwork O.o
19:45.44``Erik(I'd imagine for non-critical path stuff, the register shotgun is safe... src/conv, src/vdeck, etc)
20:21.07``Erikholy shit, there's a bass pro in maryland O.o
20:28.07brlcadone up in arundel mills iirc
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20:45.19``Erikhanover
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20:45.45``Erikyeah, that area
20:46.07``Erikboggles me, I'd never seen one or heard of it until I moved to springfield :)
20:46.17``Erikstill waiting for backyard burger and skippers to get out here O.o
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22:27.37brlcadhola jesica, feliz navidad!
22:35.08Nohlabrlcad felicidades!!
22:35.10Nohlamuchas gracias
23:49.01Nohlabrlcad do you remember my promise?
23:49.19NohlaI'm still in
23:50.17brlcadNohla: ok :)
23:51.45Nohlaif you are tomorrow and I've any problem, can you help me?
23:52.47Nohlathe 3rd will be finished before the next weekend
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091227

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091227

00:01.03brlcadI'm actually supposed to be driving off to see family for the next couple days, driving for 8 hours tomorrow, so I probably won't be online much
00:01.17brlcadbut you can certainly post here and ask, someone is bound to answer :)
00:01.41brlcadi'll be on early morning and probably later in the night after I arrive at my destination
00:02.06Nohlawell I'll try harder :)
00:07.58``Erikheh, not gonna pull the iphone ssh while driving r-tardedness? :)
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05:48.59brlcadnay
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15:22.35NohlaIs anybody out there? starseeker? ``Erik?
15:24.26Nohlawanted to know if it still exists:"You can also zoom in or out on your design by going to the View menu and selecting Zoom In or Zoom Out. A drawback to this method is that you can only zoom in or out one time because the drop-down menu closes once you make a selection."
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15:37.36``Erikhm, it should still be there... gimme a minute to look
15:38.22``Erikayup, it is... do you have mged installed?
15:39.07Nohlanop :(
15:39.17Nohlasorry, always say the same
15:39.29``Erik(sorry, ayup = yes. That functionality still exists)
15:40.36NohlaI'm asking for the drawback, not for the function
15:41.13``Erikoh, yes, it does close the dropdown menu when it takes effect. There is no way to change that behavior, it's part of being a dropdown menu
15:41.42Nohlabut with a shortcut, maye
15:41.47Nohlamaybe
15:41.49``Erikyou can zoom out, then click view again and choose it again and it'll work, but you have to keep clicking 'view' between each zoom
15:43.05Nohlashift grips is the same as chortcut and kaystrokes?
15:43.40``ErikI don't know O.o I'm not a GUI person :)
15:44.44``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Image:Shift_Grips_Quick_Reference_Guide.pdf looks like shift-grips are mouse motion events with a modifier key pressed
15:44.52``Eriklike holding shift or control while you click and drag
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15:47.20Nohla``Erik thanks
15:48.25``Eriknp, glad I was able to help (my focus is lower level stuff, not user interfaces)
15:49.02Nohlait's perfect if you understand the matrix :)
15:49.22``Erikinstalling BRL-CAD to try things out may help in the translation process... being able to try it to see if your reading is correct before re-expressing it? :) just a thought
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16:02.02Nohlasorry, I fell down
16:02.31Nohlato install it I need to free up disk space before
16:03.08``Erikah, I have similar issues on my 'server'
16:03.25``Erikit's about 265 megabytes on my mac
16:04.13``Erikhm, one of my bsd machines has a 115m dir
16:06.44``Erikdo you have perhaps a school server you could install it to, and then use remote X to run it?
16:09.33``Erikgrumbles because some eggshell broke into his food
16:10.48Nohla``Erik that's possible, but I'll ask for it in February
16:11.15NohlaWe're on vacation :)
16:12.30``Erik*shrug* I was thinking that perhaps you had an account that could do it and could just ssh in :) the other options are getting a new hard drive (or thumb drive) which is expensive money wise, or doing hard drive housecleaning (removing unused packages, deleting unused files, etc) which is time consuming
16:13.19``ErikI don't have a server to offer, but brlcad may *shrug*
16:14.21NohlaI have no problem because I have a lot of music that I can burn on dvd
16:14.55NohlaI like the idea for the others students
16:15.21``Erikremote X is sensitive to latency
16:16.14Nohlammm... and it means... ?
16:16.20``Erikdial-up makes it very difficult to use
16:16.45``Erikwhen I did remote-X stuff on dialup, I would move the mouse, and half a second later, the cursor would move...very difficult to use
16:17.19Nohlammm, will see the best way of make it popular :)
16:17.39``Eriklocal of fast network is best
16:17.49``Eriklocal or fast network is best
16:18.20Nohlaat the end of the translation of the tutorials and menus, the idea was to make a seminar
16:18.54``Erikdoes the classroom have 100baseT to all the machines? that makes it acceptable to do remote, provided the server can handle the load
16:19.14``Erikimagine 30 people running a raytrace at the same time on a machine :) that'd not be fun
16:19.29Nohlalet me see the reality of the laboratory material before
16:20.11``Erikof course, I'm just rambling to explore possibilities
16:20.12NohlaI trust that with time we can do a nice job with this
16:20.44Nohlayou are always one step further:)
16:20.51``Erik"the plan is useless; it's the planning that is important" -Eisenhower
16:21.34Nohlawe do :)
16:22.30Nohlathe planning stage is always very  short
16:22.49Nohlawe just need to seek that stage :)
16:23.33Nohlabut I told brlcad yesterday, I'm in
16:23.55``Erikexcellent :)
16:24.44NohlaI know very little, but I do my best
16:25.02``Erik<-- been thinking about modelling his house in BRL-CAD to experiment with furniture placement and using photon mapping (or converting to bots and using adrt's path tracing) to get a good idea of appearance before buying furniture and stuff
16:25.19``Erik'sok, I know very little, I just make a good act of it
16:26.03Nohla:)
16:26.55*** part/#brlcad Nohla (n=jesica@168.226.179.50)
16:27.03*** join/#brlcad Nohla (n=jesica@168.226.179.50)
16:28.09``Erikyou seem to be falling off the internet a lot, too many cerveza? :D
16:28.20``Eriknohla: did you get my private message?
17:21.14*** join/#brlcad __monty__ (n=toon@153.60-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
18:34.43CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37019 10/brlcad/trunk/bench/run.sh:
18:34.43CIA-38BRL-CAD: include sysctl hardware information in the output log after uname, collapsing
18:34.43CIA-38BRL-CAD: all lines into just one. also add additional tests to make sure the scripts and
18:34.43CIA-38BRL-CAD: binaries we're about to use actually work before putting them to use.
18:36.25CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37020 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
18:36.25CIA-38BRL-CAD: the benchmark suite now includes sysctl hardware information in the log output.
18:36.25CIA-38BRL-CAD: I was manually asking everyone for this information anyways, so it's good to
18:36.25CIA-38BRL-CAD: just have it automatically included in the log. still would be nice to get a
18:36.25CIA-38BRL-CAD: copy of /proc/cpuinfo if it's a linux system, though.
18:38.53*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=matthew@bas2-toronto21-1242309791.dsl.bell.ca)
18:41.47``Eriksysctl is a very system specific thing, I had to write significantly different sysctl thingies for fbsd vs netbsd vs obsd vs solaris vs what little linux supports
18:41.56``Erikthere's no universal OID heirarchy :(
18:43.01``Erikoh, hah, you're grabbing the entire hw tree
18:45.09brlcadwhich is nfg on linux
18:45.44``ErikI should put my old perfmon crap out under a bsd or lgpl license so it can be nom'd
18:46.02``Erikhow was the drive?
18:46.27``Erikget to open ellie up a bit on the no-mans-land bits?
18:48.14``Erik(solaris and osX are of the BSD world, which is migrating its own way... sysctl heavy... linux is off in the corner drooling on itself and wearing a cone hat, not surprised it's not even close to 'normal')
19:05.45CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37021 10/brlcad/trunk/bench/run.sh:
19:05.45CIA-38BRL-CAD: restructure the output so that system configuration information is included at
19:05.45CIA-38BRL-CAD: the end of the log instead of the beginning. that also lets us preserve the
19:05.45CIA-38BRL-CAD: sysctl formatting and include the verbose /proc/cpuinfo details if they are
19:05.45CIA-38BRL-CAD: available. we do this quietly only because it's so much output, but still let
19:05.47CIA-38BRL-CAD: the user know that additional information was added to the log.
19:08.27CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37022 10/brlcad/trunk/bench/run.sh: oops, CMP not PIXCMP
19:37.08CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37023 10/brlcad/trunk/bench/run.sh: emphasize submitting results, include an approx VGR result on a 16 core xeon instead of the 8 cpu aix that had a 9k vgr.
20:06.32*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@76-142-85-95.dynamic.stcable.net)
20:06.40csanyipalHi,
20:08.25csanyipalbrlcad: I just sent in e-mail the outputs of 'sysctl -a' and 'cat /proc/cpuinfo' commands.
20:20.09brlcadcool, thanks
20:21.50csanyipalbrlcad: you are welcome!
20:36.23*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14BC23.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:59.09brlcadperfect
20:59.45csanyipal:)
21:16.06csanyipalI have a build fom SVN and when I try to open in Archer an existing geometry file, Archer crash and disappeare.
21:17.24csanyipalSegmentation fault..
21:18.22brlcadcsanyipal: hm, do you have a stack trace
21:18.26brlcador rather, can you get one?
21:18.40csanyipalhow can I get one?
21:18.44brlcadhm
21:19.20brlcadrun archer .. then before opening the file, attach to the process with gdb
21:19.47brlcadshould be able to get the process id via "ps auxwww|grep bwish"
21:19.48csanyipalI never did this before..
21:19.53brlcadno problem
21:20.07brlcadfirst step: run archer  ;)
21:20.18csanyipalok
21:20.29csanyipaldone.
21:20.41brlcadthen run "ps auxwww|grep bwish" in a terminal
21:20.49brlcadwhat does it report?
21:21.01csanyipal1000     10154  4.4  0.9 268196 19408 ?        Ss   22:20   0:01 /usr/brlcad/bin/../bin/bwish /usr/brlcad/bin/archer
21:21.01csanyipal1000     10161  0.0  0.0   4856   780 pts/0    S+   22:20   0:00 grep bwish
21:21.18brlcadgreap, so 10154 is the process id for archer
21:21.23brlcadgreat*
21:21.25csanyipalo
21:21.27csanyipalok
21:21.32brlcadnow run "gdb"
21:21.40csanyipaldone
21:21.41brlcadthen in gdb run "attach 10154"
21:21.54csanyipaldone
21:22.00brlcadthen "continue"
21:22.13brlcadthen go back to archer, and make it crash
21:22.18csanyipalContinuing.
21:22.51brlcadonce it crashes, go back to gdb and run "backtrace"
21:22.52csanyipaldone
21:22.58csanyipalProgram received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
21:22.58csanyipal[Switching to Thread 0xa893a6c0 (LWP 10154)]
21:22.58csanyipal0xb7f35f00 in bu_calloc@plt () from /usr/brlcad/lib/libtclcad.so.19
21:22.58csanyipalCurrent language:  auto; currently asm
21:23.25csanyipalArcher are hanging now..
21:23.32csanyipalis..
21:23.45brlcadright, from here on archer is dead
21:23.56brlcaduntil you tell gdb to detach, it's just frozen
21:24.03brlcad"backtrace" ?
21:24.49brlcadrun that command in gdb
21:24.55csanyipaldone backtrace, but get many messages.
21:25.03brlcadright, that's what I need :)
21:25.06brlcad~bapaste
21:25.16brlcad~bzpaste
21:25.17ibotit has been said that bzpaste is http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/
21:25.17brlcadhm
21:25.23brlcadthere
21:27.59csanyipalI think it's there: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m6bdd531a
21:29.31brlcadperfect, thanks .. hold on
21:29.44csanyipalok
21:40.34*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=matthew@bas2-toronto21-1242309791.dsl.bell.ca)
22:29.54csanyipalI shall come back tomorrow. Go to sleep now. :)
22:34.46brlcadboohyaw
22:34.56CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37024 10/brlcad/trunk/bench/run.sh:
22:34.56CIA-38BRL-CAD: less emphasis on the statement to submit results, instead call attention to the
22:34.56CIA-38BRL-CAD: email address. improve the output reporting of sysctl (don't need vm) and the
22:34.56CIA-38BRL-CAD: way results are formatted. include prtdiag for solaris. use look_for to search
22:34.56CIA-38BRL-CAD: the PATH to keep failures quiet (and avoid having to run the binary additional
22:34.58CIA-38BRL-CAD: times)
22:40.10CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37025 10/brlcad/trunk/bench/run.sh: prevent calculating a negative or zero logarithm and printing -inf's if vgr fails to be calculated correctly
22:44.32CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37026 10/brlcad/trunk/bench/run.sh: report the summary to the log file too. no sense in it just being output to the screen. remove old comment about solaris.
22:45.00brlcadthat puppy is about due a gui..
22:55.26brlcadcsanyipal's crash log is very bizarre.. smells like a smashed stack
22:57.26brlcadhard to say without peeking inside _bu_alloc() .. need a debug build
22:58.14``Erikdunno, could be... I kinda smell lib order mixing with malloc hacketetry, myself
22:59.42``Eriklike tcl malloc executing, then backing up to find its mud, but finding BRL-CAD's mud instead
22:59.47``Erik*shrug*
23:02.11brlcadtcl malloc should work too
23:02.20brlcadnot that i've ever seen that happen
23:03.07brlcadi'd expect that mixup to cause a problem maybe during a free
23:03.40``Erik<--- working off of smell :) not thinking
23:04.40CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37027 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c: if ged_open() fails, note the failure and stop so we don't allocate a ged_obj.
23:05.53brlcadalas useless without more debug info .. something for him to try later I suppose, maybe a manual command-line opendb or go_open
23:07.38``Erikayup
23:15.41CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37028 10/brlcad/trunk/bench/run.sh: aix ain't got no prtdiag or cpuinfo satisfaction but does reportedly have a prtconf command. use it.
23:17.01brlcadfg
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091228

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091228

00:41.52Nohlabrlcad you're back :)
00:46.34brlcadNohla: I am!
01:00.51Nohlabrlcad the last time, the conversion to pdf was done simultaneously with the makefile, doesn't it??
01:03.43*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78-2-111-81.adsl.net.t-com.hr)
01:53.12*** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (n=Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1)
02:41.46*** join/#brlcad akafubu (n=akafubu@unaffiliated/akafubu)
03:00.01Nohlarun make comand into dockbook but an error happened while running
03:00.17Nohlalessons/en/images/mged02_coordsys.png \
03:00.17Nohlalessons/en/images/mged02_defaultradio.png \
03:00.17Nohlalessons/en/images/mged02_flower_zooomin.png \
03:00.17Nohlalessons/en/images/mged02_flower_zooomout.png \
03:00.17Nohlalessons/en/images/mged02_multipane.png \
03:00.18Nohlalessons/en/images/mged02_radio_35_25.png \
03:00.20Nohlalessons/en/images/mged02_radio_front.png \
03:00.22Nohlalessons/en/images/mged02_radio_right.png \
03:00.24Nohlalessons/en/images/mged02_radio_top.png \
03:00.26Nohlalessons/en/images/mged02_truck_0_0_14.png \
03:00.28Nohlalessons/en/images/mged02_truck_270_-90.png \
03:00.30Nohlalessons/en/images/mged02_truck_270_90.png \
03:00.32Nohlalessons/en/images/mged02_truck_35_0.png \
03:00.34Nohlalessons/en/images/mged02_truck_35_25.png \
03:00.36Nohlalessons/en/images/mged02_truck_35_60.png \
03:00.38Nohlalessons/en/images/mged02_truck_35_90.png \
03:00.40Nohlalessons/en/images/mged02_truck_front.png \
03:00.42Nohlalessons/en/images/mged02_truck_left.png \
03:00.46Nohlalessons/en/images/mged02_truck_rear.png \
03:00.48Nohlalessons/en/images/mged02_truck_right.png \
03:00.50Nohlasorry
03:00.59Nohlathis is: make[1]: *** [Makefile.in] Error 1
03:01.00Nohlamake[1]: se sale del directorio `/home/jesica/Desktop/brlcad'
03:01.00Nohlamake: *** [../../aclocal.m4] Error 2
03:43.07*** join/#brlcad Yoshi47 (n=jan@d72-39-56-44.home1.cgocable.net)
04:31.32*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=matthew@bas2-toronto21-1242309791.dsl.bell.ca)
06:04.45*** join/#brlcad talcite_ (n=matthew@bas2-toronto21-1242309791.dsl.bell.ca)
06:04.51*** join/#brlcad jesica__ (n=jesica@168.226.178.59)
06:24.33talcitebrlcad: is there any way that we can get one of the upstreams set up before new year's? My amount of free time right now is pretty big and will drop off for the first couple weeks of January
06:36.57brlcadtalcite: before new years eh?  quite possible .. I'll see what we can do
06:37.17talcitebrlcad: great. Thanks! I can also start packaging one if you'd like
06:37.28talcitewhich one is least likely to change when we take over upstream?
06:38.40brlcadthe one's we're talking about are URToolkit/libutahrle, step/SCL, and possibly tkhtml3 yes?
06:39.09brlcadstep is least likely to change
06:39.20brlcadit's already got a self-contained build system for the most part
06:39.34brlcaddocs and reasonable organization
06:39.56brlcadso it'll probably have get imported mostly as-is for starters
06:44.15talcitealright. I'll start working on step
06:44.31talciteyeah, tkhtml3 will probably need to be taken over. The upstream is really dead
06:44.58talciteIt would also be really nice if we could remove the lemon external library which gets built with it and also hv3
06:45.26talciteI don't actually understand how we build tkhtml3 without including lemon. Did we use bison instead?
07:25.29brlcadi'm not familiar with 'lemon'
07:26.04brlcadtalcite: I also don't see lexer/parser files
07:26.26talcitebrlcad: It's in the original tkhtml3 sources. Lemon is the parser they use
07:26.27brlcadwe removed hv3 and the test suite in our integration
07:26.36brlcadpart of hv3 or tkhtml3?
07:26.51brlcadi'm not particularly interested in hv3
07:26.57brlcadshould be a separate package
07:27.39talcitetkhtml3 sources I believe
07:28.06brlcadjesica__: the error occurs *before* the "Error 1" line .. look for the first place it says error then probably the line before *that* line is the one that caused the error
07:29.05brlcadtalcite: sources for hv3 and tkhtml3 are together iirc
07:29.29talcitebrlcad: yes, the src folder is for tkhtml3 and hv is separate I believe
07:29.35brlcadright
07:29.51talcitebrlcad: there's references to lemon in the tkhtml3 src folder
07:30.57brlcadwhere?
07:31.20brlcadlooking at the repo, there used to be a .y/.lem parser file, but no longer
07:31.59brlcadlast commit says:  "Switch from lemon to a hand-coded CSS parser. This makes it possible to handle parse errors in a standards compliant manner."
07:32.14brlcadso probably just some stale comment
07:42.28talcitebrlcad: oh wait, you're doing a cvs pull?
07:42.34talciteI was looking at alpha16 release
07:43.02brlcadI believe we did
07:43.10brlcaddon't know what is in alpha16
07:43.19brlcadcvs hasn't changed in about 2 years
07:43.31brlcadalpha16 is at least 22 months old
07:46.06talciteAhh. that makes more sense now
07:46.20talciteCan we do a CVS pull for our upstream in tkhtml3? It would greatly simplify things
07:47.05brlcadwhat do you mean?
07:47.23brlcadI certainly wouldn't be starting with a16 if we took over as upstream
07:47.51talciteah ok. Alright, then everything is fine
07:47.56brlcadi've already contacted dan to see where he stands with maintainership
07:48.04brlcadso that one is tbd
07:49.17talciteoh really? I sent an email to dan and he said the project is not active
07:49.37brlcadI wasn't asking if it's active
07:58.35brlcadutah folks notified
07:58.42talcitebrlcad: ah ok. Dan was pretty quick on email when I last contacted him.
07:58.54talcitebrlcad: any thoughts on what we'll do with NURBS?
07:59.04brlcadwhat do you mean?
07:59.29brlcadit's got an "active" albeit very private and slow upstream
07:59.47talcitebut they didn't want our source modifications right?
08:00.36brlcadheh, nice .. both utah contact emails came back immediately rejected
08:01.06talcitebrlcad: proposal rejected or routing rejected?
08:01.13brlcaddead address
08:02.30talciteahh well. Is it safe to assume we can take upstream?
08:04.26brlcadoh, I already knew we could
08:04.32brlcadi just didn't know the mails were dead :)
08:04.46brlcadI was just sending a cordial notification of the intention
08:05.27brlcadthe last version, 3.1b, was released more than a decade ago
08:05.32brlcad1996 iirc
08:05.55talciteah. Heh I was just starting to use computers back then
08:06.18brlcadit's long overdue a 4.0 release ;0
08:06.48brlcadthen I can finally quell all those damn compilation warnings
08:07.11brlcadand get rid of some of the crap
08:07.48talciteheh. Sounds good.
08:12.28CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37029 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/deprecation.txt: the hf primitive was deprecated with release 6.0 .. should remove it at release 8
08:20.39*** join/#brlcad talcite_ (n=matthew@bas2-toronto21-1279331833.dsl.bell.ca)
08:21.10*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@150-142-85-95.dynamic.stcable.net)
08:21.17csanyipalHi,
08:21.23brlcadhowdy
08:21.27csanyipal:)
08:21.53csanyipalI'm ready for testing Archer.
08:22.19brlcadthe trace you provided earlier is very odd .. need more information
08:22.26csanyipalok
08:22.37brlcadneed a debug build
08:22.42csanyipalok
08:22.47brlcadthat looks like it was an optimized compile?
08:22.54csanyipalyes, it is.
08:23.22brlcadif you can recompile without optimization enabled, that should give a more informative backtrace
08:23.36brlcadin the meantime, you can try running archer in a couple other ways
08:23.46brlcadlike providing the .g on the command line "archer file.g"
08:23.48csanyipalI can, of course.
08:24.23brlcador within archer on archer's command line "opendb file.g" or "gop file.g"
08:24.30brlcadfantastic, thanks
08:24.41csanyipalyou are wellcome! :)
08:32.18csanyipalwhen I run: 'archer radio.g' I get Segmentation fault.
08:32.42brlcaddoes it happen with other .g files too?
08:32.44brlcador just radio.g?
08:33.41csanyipalit does happen with other .g files too.
08:37.01brlcadokay, good to know .. and you're running from an svn compile, yes?
08:37.48csanyipalYes. When in the Archer's command line run the command 'gop radio.g' I get error message: Archer> gop radio.g
08:37.48csanyipalError: invalid command name "gop"
08:38.05csanyipalYes, I'm running brlcad builded from SVN.
08:38.22brlcaddid opendb work?
08:38.35csanyipalno, I get the same error message.
08:38.47csanyipalinvalid command name.
08:38.49brlcadah, go_open
08:39.23brlcadgo_open foo file.g
08:39.58csanyipalgo_open radio.g give to me: Error: invalid command name "go_open"
08:40.31csanyipalgives
08:46.59csanyipalMust I delete /usr/brlcad/ directory before the new installation of debug build?
08:47.19brlcadcsanyipal: it's a good idea
08:47.41csanyipalok
08:47.52brlcadnot strictly necessary, but a good idea regarless
08:48.05csanyipalok
08:51.01csanyipalI have installed now the debug build. I'm going to reproduce Segmentation fault and bzpaste the backtrace again. :)
08:53.47CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37030 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (8 files in 6 dirs): quell a slew of strict compilation warnings/errors adding in extra parameter validation and denoting unused attributes
08:56.29CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37031 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/mirror.c: quellage. and that brings us to nmgs! .. progress of sorts
09:01.11csanyipalwhen I get in gdb on terminal the message: Continuing. after the command '(gdb) continue'
09:02.53csanyipaland when in Archer trying to open a .g file, I get a dialog with message: Error  Unsupported display manager type - ogl
09:03.01csanyipaland the buttons Exit and OK
09:04.22csanyipalso when I hit OK Archer won't crash.
09:07.04csanyipalbut I have in Archer a strange behavior of the mouse pointer: the poiner shows that there is a process..
09:07.17csanyipalhanging..
09:07.26csanyipalbut I can to open menus..
09:07.51csanyipaland change say the background color.
09:09.07jesica__brlcad, are you a bot?
09:09.28jesica__please, sleep a little from time to time
09:09.51csanyipal:)
09:17.59jesica__well done :)
09:21.29csanyipalso I think I'm going to compile brlcad --without-ogl
09:22.46CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37032 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): remove the unused resource pointer from the adjust() callback.
09:23.06brlcadheh
09:23.31brlcadcsanyipal: hm.. archer won't work without ogl
09:23.41csanyipalbrlcad: uh!
09:23.55brlcadat least, I don't think it will
09:23.56brlcadcan try it
09:24.07csanyipalok, I will try it.
09:24.20csanyipalbut if you have another solution?
09:24.52csanyipalwhat can I do to solve this problem?
09:30.05csanyipalGood, so I'm still trying to use Archer and brlcad with OpenGL.
09:31.28brlcadare you up-to-date?
09:31.33brlcad"svn update"
09:32.44csanyipalsvn update
09:32.44csanyipalSkipped '.'
09:35.59csanyipalwhen I run 'svn update' inside of brlcad directory, I get: ... Updated to revision 37032.
09:43.22brlcadokay good
09:43.34csanyipal:)
09:43.59CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37033 10/brlcad/trunk/ (36 files in 36 dirs): remove the unused resource pointer from the ifree() callback.
09:47.13CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37034 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (constraint.c db5_bin.c db_comb.c dir.c): few more ifree() callers
09:47.39brlcadenough play time for tonight.. bbiab
09:49.10CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37035 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ars/ars.c: few peculiar ifree() calls
09:49.15csanyipalbye.
10:04.24*** join/#brlcad cosurgi (n=cosurgi@atak.bl.pg.gda.pl)
10:13.06*** join/#brlcad Tesl0r644 (n=Tesl0r@p5B22ACB9.dip.t-dialin.net)
10:13.22*** join/#brlcad Tesl0r722 (n=Tesl0r@p5B22ACB9.dip.t-dialin.net)
10:13.26Tesl0r722hi
10:15.30Tesl0r722you all workin with blr or did somebody work with catia?
10:19.24csanyipalWell, after I updated my local svn with 'svn update' and compile brlcad with: './configure' and with 'make -j2' I get Error message:
10:19.41csanyipaladjust.c: In function ‘ged_adjust’:
10:19.41csanyipaladjust.c:80: error: too many arguments to function ‘intern.idb_meth->ft_adjust’
10:19.41csanyipalmake[2]: *** [adjust.lo] Error 1
10:19.41csanyipalmake[2]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs....
10:19.41csanyipalmv -f .deps/ae2dir.Tpo .deps/ae2dir.Plo
10:19.41csanyipalmake[2]: Leaving directory `/debian-adatok-1/CAD/BRL-CAD/SVN/brlcad/src/libged'
10:19.43csanyipalmake[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
10:19.46csanyipalmake[1]: Leaving directory `/debian-adatok-1/CAD/BRL-CAD/SVN/brlcad/src'
10:19.49csanyipalmake: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
14:28.21CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37036 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (9 files): unbreak build, fix a slew of calls to the ifree() and adjust() functabs where the resource pointer parameter was removed. all amazingly and uselessly used the rt_uniresource.
14:32.15brlcadlooks like we're taking over tkhtml3 upstream
14:41.35``Erikhm
14:43.22``Erikis it using tcl.tk's trac for project management?
14:52.30brlcadnot for much longer!
14:52.46CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37037 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (10 files in 10 dirs): s/log/logstr/g where it's a bu_vls string for quellage purposes.
15:07.13``Erikheh, we should add http://penn.emaxcess.com/digital_reality_with_cad_015.htm to db/ for jra :)
15:08.01``Erikis tkhtml3 going to have it's own sf project, or fall under the brlcad umbrella like rtcmp, isst, jbrlcad, ...?
15:15.20CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r37038 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_system.h): check for functional malloc.h (being #error'd on some new systems)
15:16.30brlcadscrew malloc.h
15:16.36brlcadjust include stdlib.h
15:16.49brlcadless cruft
15:16.57``Erikthat header includes stdlib.h, then does  some #ifdef for windows and includes malloc.h as the fallthrough
15:17.23brlcadso it's not needed then..
15:17.50``Erik*shrug* unless you have an archaic system
15:19.02brlcadit's never been needed that I know of, just provided the malloc subset of stdlib so some folks got used to using it
15:19.33CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r37039 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_system.h): eliminate references to malloc.h
15:20.45brlcadtkhtml3 isn't going under the umbrella
15:21.14brlcadone of the current maintainers wants to move it to fossil
15:21.17``Erikthat'll make packaging it easier
15:21.22indianlarrybrlcad: rt_comb_adjust() in librt/tcl.c tries to free 'resp' the recently removed resource pointer; trickles down through db_tree_parse()
15:21.39``Erikfossil? O.o sounds disturbingly apropos for tcl projects *cough* O:-)
15:21.50brlcadnot played with fossil myself, but looking into it
15:21.54brlcadheh
15:21.56brlcadfossil-scm
15:22.10brlcadgit/mercurial hosting provider
15:22.17``Erikyes, .org
15:22.27brlcadindianlarry: okay
15:25.49``Erikdoes svn allow tagging of subtrees? wondering if we should tag imports with their imported version, so we can do a diff against the tag when updating to hit all the mods
15:27.02brlcadsvn has no concept of tagging, it's just a lightweight copy into a 'tag' dir -- we could tag imports if we were disciplined enough, but I suspect .. we're not
15:28.02CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37040 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/tcl.c: make sure it's not a null resource pointer, and more log/logstr quellage
15:29.18``Erikstares at todays xkcd for a few hours O.o :D
15:32.15``Erikthat is one awesome representation
15:33.23brlcadhttp://www.siggraph.org/s2010/for_submitters/game_papers
15:37.38brlcadfails to see how db_tcl_tree_parse() is called
15:38.23``Erikso break and bt
15:38.45brlcadI don't think it's actually called
15:38.51brlcadwas just following the wrong func
15:49.17brlcadindianlarry: that should fix it
15:49.31CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37041 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (db_tree.c tcl.c):
15:49.31CIA-38BRL-CAD: more resource fallout. rt_comb_adjust() needs a resource pointer to pass to
15:49.31CIA-38BRL-CAD: db_free_tree() and db_tree_parse() so provide the uniresource. add a slew of
15:49.31CIA-38BRL-CAD: nullity/resource parameter validations to public api (should never be required
15:49.31brlcadmy build is still going before I can be sure they're all squished
15:49.31CIA-38BRL-CAD: to pass a non-null resource) while we're at it.
15:50.00``Erikis seeing stuff busted left and right O.o svn up && gmake
15:52.52CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37042 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: remove resource pointer from rt_hf_to_dsp() decl.
15:53.06``Erikheh, doh, I was just build testing that :)
15:56.18brlcadgot a faster build going now
16:01.08``Erikasc2g is busted
16:02.08indianlarryi've got all the ifree updated in src/conv i'll checkin
16:03.19``Erikmged/utility1.c is busted
16:03.43CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r37043 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ (7 files in 2 dirs): unused resource fixes for ifree and rt_hf_to_dsp
16:03.58``Erikthat looks like it
16:06.31CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r37044 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/utility1.c: unused resource fixes for ifree
16:07.21``Erikw00t, full build
16:15.11*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@150-142-85-95.dynamic.stcable.net)
16:15.20csanyipalHi,
16:41.52*** join/#brlcad talcite_ (n=matthew@bas2-toronto21-1279331833.dsl.bell.ca)
16:44.23*** join/#brlcad akafubu (n=akafubu@unaffiliated/akafubu)
16:46.55CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37045 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/deprecation.txt: include a section for sed-scriptable 'minimally impacting' changes, provide an actual regex that performs the change. note the intention to change rt_db_free_internal().
16:51.56CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37046 10/brlcad/trunk/ (113 files in 19 dirs): remove the rt_uniresource parameter from rt_db_free_internal(). it's no longer needed now that ifree() doesn't need one and was only used by combs anyways and was almost always the rt_uniresource.
16:52.45``Erikffffffeck
16:56.01``Erikrebuilds and re-reads the diff and hopes there're no conflicts O.o
16:56.12brlcadmuahaha
16:56.32``Erik(at least I rebuild before commiting and breaking the tree *cough*)
16:56.46brlcadthis one was actually a proper recursive query replace, so should be better :)
16:58.15``Erikwell, no, you broke it :)
16:58.17``Eriksrc/conv/intaval/write_brl.cpp: In function 'void smoothBot(rt_wdb*, char*)':
16:58.17``Erikinclude/raytrace.h:3257: error: too many arguments to function 'void rt_db_free_internal(rt_db_internal*)'
16:58.20``Eriksrc/conv/intaval/write_brl.cpp:119: error: at this point in file
16:58.38brlcad"better"
16:59.21brlcadahh yes, c++ file
16:59.59CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r37047 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/intaval/write_brl.cpp: uniresource is gone
17:02.47CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37048 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/cmd.c: the intention of isascii() here is unclear given our lacking support of non-ascii i/o, remove it since it's a non-posix call.
17:04.11``Erikwhistles and walks away from the computer O:-)
17:12.46CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37049 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/binary_obj.c): use size_t for the object sizes instead of long long. quell unreachable code warning where binunifs were arbitrarily being clamped to __LONG_MAX__.
17:13.28``Erikhm, I wonder if that's going to break my 10 minute commit here
17:13.48*** join/#brlcad akafubu (n=akafubu@unaffiliated/akafubu)
17:17.22CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r37050 10/brlcad/trunk/ (450 files in 37 dirs): remove register keyword
17:17.42brlcadwoah
17:17.50``Eriknothing in the rt path
17:19.28brlcad*nod*, lotta files ;)
17:19.36``Erikyes, thus the 'fffeck' earlier : )
17:19.42brlcadhaha
17:19.48``Erikthe diff was 22k lines
17:24.00brlcadnice
17:24.41brlcadjeeeeeeebus! not even halfway done with librt quellage..
17:25.35brlcadand that's just for one plat.. which is probably only 75% of the overall effort
17:26.02brlcad~.75 * .5
17:26.03ibot0.375
17:26.06``Erikaren't you supposed to be hanging out with family or something?
17:26.10brlcadwee
17:26.24brlcadchanged the plan
17:26.47brlcadnow it just involves a shovel and a back yard
17:27.07brlcadneither of which I have
17:27.31``Erikyou have a back yard?
17:29.22brlcad"neither of which I have"
17:29.45brlcadyes, yes I don't
17:29.46``Erikoh, missed that line
17:29.51CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37051 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_open.c: fsync() isn't posix, so don't try it if we're compiling strict
17:30.20``Erikohhhhhhh
17:30.46brlcadsrc/conv/step .. is really really really warning noisy :)
17:30.59``Erikyes, much string/char* spew
17:31.04brlcadI think that directory alone is 90% of my warning log
17:31.09``Erikfrom ExpDict.h
17:31.21``Erikwant me to smack indianlarry upside the head for ya?
17:31.40brlcadwarning: "__O3DB__" is not defined
17:31.47brlcadseems to be a big culprit
17:31.53``Erikcan I smack indianlarry anyways?
17:31.55indianlarryfunny i was compiling pedantic ?
17:31.58brlcadhe's bigger than you
17:32.06brlcadhe's bigger than me
17:32.13brlcadi'm not sure smacking him is a viable approach
17:32.14indianlarrycombined
17:32.30indianlarryi'll 6take a look at it
17:32.40``Erik'sok, I lived in missoura, I have solutions
17:32.46``Erikhey, indianlarry, can I borrow your truck for a minute?
17:32.52brlcadindianlarry: try on linux with --enable-warnings
17:33.03brlcadthat won't make them strict, but will make them report
17:33.15``ErikI get blabber without strict about deprecated casting on fbsd
17:33.51brlcadrather, --enable-warnings won't make them errors
17:38.12brlcadfwiw, pedantic just means check for for a specific set of non-posix (non-c89) semantics and calls -- those are somewhat orthogonal issues to what the various warning flags (-W -Wall -Wshadow, etc) indicate
17:42.49CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37052 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_open.c: sync() is also a no-go, just rely on fflush()
17:52.48indianlarryI'm not getting any warning on my linux box (-Wall  and/or --enable-warning) using gcc 4.1.2-46
17:53.03brlcado.O
17:53.22indianlarryErik showed me some of the string/char 8 cast warnings coming out of the STEP lib
17:53.41indianlarryI'll builkd on my mac and see what I get
17:54.04brlcadwhat does one of your compile lines look like
17:54.15brlcadlike for SdaiAll.cc
17:54.49brlcadmine: if /bin/sh ../../../libtool --silent --tag=CXX --mode=compile g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../../include  -I../../../src/other/step/include -I../../../src/other/step/src/cleditor -I../../../src/other/step/src/clstepcore -I../../../src/other/step/src/clutils -I../../../src/other/step/src/cldai -I../../../src/other/step/src/test -I../../../src/other/tcl/generic -I../../../src/other/tcl/unix -I../../../src/other/tnt -I../../../src/other/openNURBS -I../..
17:57.48indianlarryfrom eclipse:
17:57.51indianlarryg++ -DSCLBUILD=1 -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I"/home/wbowman/Desktop/STEP/step-g" -I"/home/wbowman/Desktop/STEP/step-g/src" -I/home/wbowman/Desktop/brlcad/include -I/home/wbowman/Desktop/brlcad/include/brlcad -I/home/wbowman/Desktop/brlcad/include/openNURBS -I/home/wbowman/Desktop/brlcad_src/src/other/step/include -I/home/wbowman/Desktop/brlcad_src/src/other/step/src/cleditor -I/home/wbowman/Desktop/brlcad_src/src/other/step/src/clstepcore -I/home/wbowman/Desktop
17:58.08brlcadthat's without any warning flags :0
17:58.33indianlarry-Wall ?
17:58.38brlcadnot even wall
17:58.45brlcadyou have an eclipse project set up?
17:58.59indianlarryjust for the step converter
17:59.07brlcadpresume you set CFLAGS .. you have to also set CXXFLAGS
17:59.22``ErikCPPFLAGS ftw
17:59.38indianlarryhere is the brlcad build line:
17:59.41indianlarryif /bin/sh ../../../libtool --silent --tag=CXX --mode=compile g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../../../../brlcad_src/src/conv/step -I../../../include  -I../../../../brlcad_src/src/other/step/include -I../../../../brlcad_src/src/other/step/src/cleditor -I../../../../brlcad_src/src/other/step/src/clstepcore -I../../../../brlcad_src/src/other/step/src/clutils -I../../../../brlcad_src/src/other/step/src/cldai -I../../../../brlcad_src/src/other/step/src/test -I..
17:59.47brlcadthe verbose flags that configure sets is: -W -Wall -Wundef -Wfloat-equal -Wshadow -Wunreachable-code -Winline
18:00.09brlcadyeah, that is just default .. no warning flags
18:00.51brlcador a truncated paste ...
18:01.00brlcadI just see:
18:01.00brlcadif /bin/sh ../../../libtool --silent --tag=CXX --mode=compile g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../../../../brlcad_src/src/conv/step -I../../../include  -I../../../../brlcad_src/src/other/step/include
18:01.04brlcad<PROTECTED>
18:01.47indianlarryi'll go back and get those turned on
18:02.23``Erikgoes to amazon.com and searches for "an idiots guide to making NMG's" :D or mebbe I'll just keep looking at arb8 and try to kick some braincells into action
18:02.34brlcadheh
18:03.03``Erik(printout, highlighter and pen... wee)
18:08.00brlcadsrc/proc-db/tea_nmg.c is decent starter
18:08.14brlcadbut iirc, one of the source files has some good bits in comment
18:08.16brlcad*.ooks
18:08.35brlcadah yeah:  src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_mk.c   ....
18:08.53``Erikyeh, digging in those, tracing how the arb8 uses 'em
18:09.08brlcada couple comment blocks in there really are the start of explaining the whole nmg api
18:09.16brlcadthe cryptic function names, etc
18:10.02``Erik*nod*
18:12.30``Erikhm, teapot uses nurb type nmg's, not bot type :/
18:12.41brlcadah, my bad
18:13.12brlcadthere is nmgmodel.c in there, but seems kinda messy to me
18:14.14brlcadaaaand, it crashes if I run it .. heh
18:21.15yukonbobhttp://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2009-12/msg00812.html
18:21.26yukonbobhello, #brlcad
18:22.32``Erikhm, asc-nmg.c
18:23.14brlcadwonders if they preserved their history
18:24.04``Erikis that the cvs->bazaar switch?
18:24.11brlcadyeah
18:24.25``Erik<-- thought about pasting it this morning, but figured everyone reasons slashdot
18:24.34brlcadtalk about a quadruple bypass culture shock :)
18:25.40``Erikheh, g-nmg doh
18:31.01``Erikthat's teh recursive thingymajigger I've been wanting :D
18:43.05``ErikCut_unimontone is in an infinite loop
19:10.30*** join/#brlcad Yoshi47 (n=jan@d72-39-56-44.home1.cgocable.net)
19:15.22CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37053 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/nmgmodel.c: plot the model before we call mk_nmg() because mk_nmg() releases the model passed to it during export/ifree. prevent crashy.
19:18.52CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37054 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
19:18.52CIA-38BRL-CAD: a few libwdb routines need to be modified to not free user-allocated structures.
19:18.52CIA-38BRL-CAD: export ends up calling free/ifree releasing the passed parameter, which can lead
19:18.52CIA-38BRL-CAD: to bad unexpected things happening to the caller. should make a copy of the
19:18.52CIA-38BRL-CAD: struct like other wdb routines do.
19:26.35*** join/#brlcad akafubu (n=akafubu@unaffiliated/akafubu)
20:56.16``ErikAWESOME
20:56.33``Eriknmgmodel && rt nmgmodel.g r.NMG  == segfault
20:56.37``Erikhalfway up the rt
20:58.28``Eriklooks like it catches an error and crashes trying to report it
20:59.29``Erikyeh, exit without entry,
20:59.59``Erikand a smashed stack to boot
21:04.02yukonbobmaybe rt is now sentient, and is trying to h4x0r your computer for fun and profit?
21:08.09CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r37055 10/isst/trunk/src/gui.c: remove handling of non-existant GTK+ signal
21:08.26``Eriknah, it's a fruity non-solid manifold, methinks, confuses boolweave or something
21:10.02``Erikthe crash on error reporting is weird, though
22:40.25*** join/#brlcad Nohla (n=jesica@168.226.179.239)
22:41.17starseekerhasn't heard of fossil before, unless you count dead animals turned to stone...
22:42.50starseekeroh http://www.fossil-scm.org
22:45.12starseekeranother one-off scm... hmm...
22:58.57brlcadstarseeker: yeah, my thoughts too
23:00.26yukonbobfossil == nice
23:01.07yukonbobdrh writes good software.
23:01.36brlcadthe connection: drh is one of the tkhtml3 devs
23:01.56yukonboband of sqlite fame, as well.
23:02.08*** join/#brlcad talcite_ (n=matthew@bas2-toronto21-1279331833.dsl.bell.ca)
23:02.11brlcaddunno if he or dlk did most
23:02.23brlcadyeah, same dude
23:03.07yukonbobhas been using fossil for quite a while hisself, after switching from mercurial.
23:03.25``Erikvcs of the week?
23:04.28yukonbobgit was (is?) a bit of a mess wrt all the binaries it requires, and also I've used fossil in BSD, MacOS, and Windows successfully, where git was not (I heard this has changed) a Windows-friendly program
23:05.37``Erikpsshhhh, everyone knows darcs is the one true way
23:06.31brlcadvisual source safe ftw!!!!11!
23:07.05yukonbobreads wikipeida re: VSS
23:08.27``Erikheh
23:08.37yukonbobnice: Although "eating their own dog food" is often said to be part of Microsoft's culture, VSS appears to be an exception
23:45.16*** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (n=Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091229

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091229

01:25.57*** join/#brlcad cosurgi (n=cosurgi@atak.bl.pg.gda.pl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
01:33.06*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-71-238-51-148.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
01:34.39*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (i=1000@s142-179-54-198.bc.hsia.telus.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
01:42.19*** join/#brlcad talcite_ (n=matthew@bas2-toronto21-1279331833.dsl.bell.ca)
01:48.41*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (i=1000@s142-179-54-198.bc.hsia.telus.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
01:51.17starseekeryukonbob: I've heard git is getting baround in the usability department
01:51.49starseekerdoesn't want to maintain a version control system too ;-)
01:52.46starseekerer better all around even
01:53.51starseeker``Erik: main complaint I hear about darcs is that it doesn't scale well
01:55.56*** join/#brlcad talcite_ (n=matthew@bas2-toronto21-1279331833.dsl.bell.ca) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
01:55.56*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-71-238-51-148.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
01:56.15starseekeryukonbob: looks like these guys are handling git on windows:  http://code.google.com/p/msysgit
01:56.45*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=matthew@bas2-toronto21-1279331833.dsl.bell.ca)
02:00.18starseekerponders... hv3 very likely has some good stuff buried in it that could live as separate, smaller tcl/tk packages...
02:01.28starseekerthe most obvious one that comes to mind is pulling out the image display stuff and making tkhtml3img or some such a package
02:02.19starseekersorta enable building up html viewers between our man page viewer and hv3
02:05.42starseekerblinks - tkhtml.sf.net is already registered
02:06.47starseekerback in August
02:08.46starseekerkdulcimer... not a nick I immediately recognize
02:10.14starseekerhmm  Unless he was forking under GPL, he's got the wrong license up
02:10.49starseekergrins evilly - well, we could always register tkhtml3.sf.net
02:11.23starseekernet
02:11.52starseekerhmm - doing screen from a Windows terminal seems to have it's share of quirks
02:11.54*** join/#brlcad akafubu (n=akafubu@unaffiliated/akafubu)
02:17.38``ErikO.o cygwin?
02:23.23starseekermsys
02:30.39*** join/#brlcad akafubu (n=akafubu@unaffiliated/akafubu)
02:37.51*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
02:39.03``Eriktkhtml.sf.net seems to have nothing of note in the svn repo and no files... perhaps they were unaware of the existing tkhtml and are trying to create one form scratch? or are just placeholding (with a damn donation link)
02:39.24``Erikthey might be willing to relinquish if ya talked to them/him? *shrug*
02:41.07``Erikhm, but they reference hv3
02:43.37talcitetkhtml3.sf.net might end up being useless if we ever go to tkhtml4 =)
02:45.50``Eriktherealtkhtml.sf.net heh
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02:45.59``Erik*shrug* they may be willing to surrender the project if they're not actively pursuing it and just want it to work (and think you'd actually keep up on it)
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02:47.25``Erik(notice how I distance myself from responsibility there... I've been in the corporate world too damn long :D )
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03:05.49brlcadstarseeker: actually want to ditch the 3 suffix ..
03:06.00brlcadversioned project names that don't have a recognizable trademark are pretty rediculous
03:10.31brlcadi noticed the sf project a couple months ago
03:11.02brlcadlooks like a placeholder effort, someone was going to fork (or did in private and isn't used to public repos)
03:11.48brlcadcan always ask, or attempt a sf takeover, or change the name ;)
03:14.13brlcadif drh is willing to set up fossil and be a support line, I'm willing to give it a try -- that in itself provides a tracker system and an integrated wiki
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03:23.34``Erikplus the legitimacy of having the previous maintainer 'bless' it
03:28.54starseekervotes for also asking about the sf site, just in case
03:29.13brlcadalready asked
03:29.17starseekerah :-)
03:29.47starseekershould have known ;-)
03:30.17``Erikah, but when you asked it was just a random cold-call... this drh feller has agreed to pass the torch now, so that might carry more weight
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03:30.35``Erikcould also be that back when brlcad asked, they were full of vim and vigor (and maybe some emacs), and now they've gone cold on the idea
03:31.06starseekercould be
03:31.32brlcadno, I mean I *just* asked
03:31.50brlcaddidn't matter before today, and still kinda don't care much
03:32.49brlcadalso drh is just one of two devs, current maintainer is listed as dlk
03:32.56brlcadunclear how they interact
03:33.28brlcaddlk was cool with the takeover, drh said then he'd set up fossil
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03:34.12``Erikah, 'k
03:34.34starseekershrugs - well, I'm game to give fossil a go on something minor like tkhtml
03:35.22starseekerponders trying to reverse his earlier humiliation trying to get TEA and autotools to play nice...
03:36.03``Erikif fossil isn't up to snuff, can we migrate off of it while retaining the history
03:36.07``Erik?
03:36.18starseekernot sure
03:36.24brlcaddont' see why not
03:37.35starseekerif all else fails there's always pulling diffs and patching to recreate the history via scripting
03:38.00brlcadyep
03:38.36starseekernot really sure how much tkhtml will change - probably depends on whether the tcl/tk community starts contirbuting patches
03:38.58``Erik<-- doesn't know anything about fossil, feels the need to ask the obvious questions (be surprised how often there're missed obvious things)
03:39.45starseeker``Erik: plus, we'll be syncing the things we care about into our subversion copy anyway
03:48.13``Erikugliest mfc ever? :)
03:49.44starseekermmm?
03:50.32``Erikmerge from current
03:50.39starseekerah
03:50.51``Erik(from fbsd's cvs shtuff)
03:50.59starseekerthought you were talking about a windows api
03:51.04``Erikehhhh
03:51.26``Erikmicrosoft foundation classes was just nasty... a halfassed class wrapping around win16, then win32
03:51.40``Erikactually got money for coding in it :(
03:51.48``Erikin, uh, '96
03:52.03``ErikI'm such a whore :~( heheheh
03:52.13starseekerkinda like boxing with handcuffs on?
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03:52.41``Erikwell, after doing mfc and borland owl
03:53.12``Erikand attempting to do ANY gui programming on leenewx (amulet, xaw, even motif), java's awt was ... nice
03:53.15``Erik:/
03:53.31``Erikthen I did qt, which sucked but had an awesome tutorial, then gtk which was just ... the least painful
03:53.59starseekerheh
03:54.01``Erikbut bear in mind, c++ on gcc 2.7 with a 120mhz cyrix was a sssslllloooowwwww painful compile
03:54.16starseekerplus, that was some ancient Qt...
03:54.24``ErikI spent a nontrivial amount of time reorganizing and tweaking headers to make my game engine at the time compile fast
03:55.02``Eriklike, 10s fast when the c++ engines my peers were writing did the same functionality but took like half an hour a pop
03:55.16``ErikI learned dirty dark cpp secrets in those days :)
03:55.38``Erikthese days, I don't abuse cpp at all, it's all clean and simple and easy to read O:-)
03:55.58starseekerreads yahoo mail and sees he is behind the times
03:56.23starseeker``Erik: heh.  Yeah, c++ abuse was a common crime in the early days
03:56.36``ErikI wanna say qt1.2? gtk/gnome was around .010
03:56.39``Erikno, cpp, not c++...
03:56.45``Erikthe preprocessor
03:56.48starseekerah
03:56.55starseeker(stupid naming conventions...)
03:57.17``Erikcpp is the preprocessor... c++ is .c++, .cxx, .C or .cc
03:57.27``Erik:D
03:59.15brlcadyeah, that's msvc's suffix bastardization
03:59.31brlcad.cxx or .c++ ftw
03:59.39``Erikms products flip on .c++
03:59.56``ErikI tend to use .cxx and .hxx when I'm forced to touch that language
04:00.59``Erik(the template approach to the partial evaluation problem is interesting... ugly but functional... gotta say that for the lang)
04:02.35``Erikbah, the brep stuff all has .cpp in our librt and conv dirs
04:02.45``Erikand proc-db
04:03.01``Erikponders a bit of time to do a bunch of svn mv's tomorrow
04:04.05``Erik(screwdrivers ftw.)
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04:07.06starseeker``Erik: works for me
04:07.14starseekerwhat convention does opennurbs use?
04:10.42``Erikwindows style
04:10.46``Erikit's a windows program
04:10.58``Erik*nix is an afterthought
04:11.45starseekerwaits to see ``Erik attempt to convince the Rhino folk to change all their file suffixes
04:13.53``Erikheh, no
04:18.24``Erikmy tenure as a winderz user was feb '96 to oct '96, somewhere I have a printout of the rhino3d manual from that era O.o they've been at it a while
04:18.39``Erikthat they released what they did under a reasonable license is boggling
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04:30.59yukonbobstarseeker: re: git -- not surprised.
04:31.54starseeker``Erik: how is it boggling?
04:32.13yukonboband while I love Unix, and thinks it's nearly infinately superior to Windows, the distinct lack of respect for Windows as a platform that seemed to be the culture of git was... baffling.
04:32.17``Erikproprietary windows software giving away part of their core?
04:32.25brlcadkdulcimer is amenable to granting admin on the sf.net project
04:32.33``Erikunder an lgpl friendly license?
04:32.35starseekerbrlcad: sweet
04:32.56brlcadhe's not a coder, was just setting up a place to host an svn repo for it, but couldn't figure it out
04:33.07``Erikhe and monkey will want to continue to be involved/admin?
04:33.14starseekeryukonbob: not too surprising - original concept by head Linux guy for Linux kernel
04:33.41starseeker``Erik: as I understand it, they gave away that part 'cause it's the part needed to convert things to/from 3dm files
04:33.47yukonbobstarseeker: of course, but how many years does it take to make something portable... it's _only_ a lightweight scm (ffs)
04:33.49brlcadhe runs a linux distro called tinyme, probably someone needed tkhtml for some package
04:34.10starseekeryukonbob: true
04:34.15``Eriksaw the tinyme, assumed that was the reason, thus the 'just wants it to work' comment way earlier, srry if'n ah waren't clear
04:35.03brlcadso it's an option if fossil flops
04:35.34``Erikis it worth adopting and pointing to fossil, to avoid any confusion?
04:35.45yukonbobanyway -- *I* like fossil (back to original discussion) and I bet you would too if you took a deeper look at it, and perhaps had a chat w/ drh -- no question git is cool too, and my previous notes (portablity, diffcult interface, tonnes of binaries) may not even apply now -- it's been a while since I've taken a close look at it...
04:36.20brlcadnot too worried about it, its just a minor dependency distraction at best
04:36.26yukonbobI'm sure git is "winning" on the installation-front (i.e. more projects hosted by git) as far as dscm's go...
04:36.47``Erikgit has annoyed me every time I've used it (as an anonymous co/up)... darcs, cvs and svn are all less... annoying
04:37.16``ErikI don't see mercurial in my 'make this sane' scripts
04:37.43brlcadfossil as documented sounds just fine -- my main concern for something major are the same as I had with SVN
04:37.44yukonbob^--- what does this mean? It's already sane, or too insane to bother putting in your scripts?
04:37.52brlcadjust that it's relatively new and unproven
04:38.05brlcadevery code has bugs, and having one in your scm can be deadly
04:38.11``Erikno, none of my mirrors use hg
04:38.42yukonbobbrlcad: drh has subjected it to quite a bit of rigour wrt design, and I'll bet tests... to which he's certainly not a stranger... the strength of sqlite is it's _massive_ test sutie.
04:38.46yukonbob*suite
04:38.59brlcadthat can be said of most codes
04:39.13``ErikI have a slew of lisp 'libraries' that I pull straight from vcs, with scripts and makefiles to automate as much as possible.. I do a "make update-all" at the toplevel and it goes
04:39.18brlcadnot quite the same as having orders of magnitude of additional eyes and projects stressing every corner case
04:39.19yukonbobbrlcad: I believe it's actually also driven by a client request, though I'm not sure details; might be interesting.
04:40.08brlcadit's not like adopting an editor and it being okay if it crashes only one out of a thousand times
04:40.16brlcador even one out of a million
04:40.17yukonbobbrlcad: no, it's different, to be sure, but drh still writes tonnes of tests, and has some interesting talked avail online about methods for writing such tests, including coding consideration, etc. He's a confidence inspiring guy.
04:40.51yukonbobhe figures the repos are intrinsicly uncorruptable.
04:40.51brlcadthat's faith-based confidence, which has little value with me ;)
04:41.01yukonbobit is.
04:41.05``Erikheh
04:41.07``Erikjobs aura?
04:41.09yukonbobyou'd have to review the code yourself
04:41.26brlcadcode reviews are mildly useless
04:41.37yukonbobquits advocating.
04:41.39brlcadfor the level of obscure bugs I'm referring to
04:41.58starseekeryukonbob: we're probably going to go with the fossil repo to start
04:42.24brlcad3rd party independent testing getting hundreds of varied projects using it without flaw, seeing reported defects slow/disappear
04:42.25``Erikpersonally, I still think cvs is the shizzle forizzle :) sucks for binary objects, but is more than ready for text material, provided your developers have a mediocum of self control
04:42.29brlcadyeah, I don't care about tkhtml :) .. we can use it for that :)
04:42.44brlcadcvs is one of the most hardened scm's for all it's problems
04:43.28``Erikif you commit, rm, add, commit with msg of to/from... it's all good
04:44.15``Erikhas not been above mv'ing files in the repo itself at all times, though :(
04:44.50brlcadwhen you only have 1000 users, a 1-in-a-million unrecoverable bug is practically undetectable; when you have ten million users, a 1-in-a-million bug is probably going to get identified
04:44.53``Erikor committing acts of admin -o
04:45.13starseekeryukonbob: the idea is to have tkhtml be a tcl/tk community project, not a BRL-CAD project - we just need to get the pump primed again ;-)
04:45.30yukonbobah...
04:45.37starseekerso if the tcl/tk community is good with it, no problem
04:45.47``Erikhow enamored is the tcl/tk community with fossil?
04:45.51starseekerwe maintain our own copy in svn anyway :-)
04:46.03starseekeryeah, that's my question too
04:46.09starseekerif they're ok with it, it's good
04:46.14brlcaddoesn't really matter
04:46.29brlcadif it works, and is easy enough to use..
04:46.42brlcadit's one less step to revive the project
04:46.46``Erikbrlcad: that's a functional attitude, not a social one
04:47.01yukonbobtkhtml is not a stranger to it, and that drh is part of the tcl/tk community (he's former tct, and sqlite was built originally as tcl extension) some may be more likely to use it, some certainly do, but the "community" are not zealots about it
04:47.17starseeker``Erik: I think he means people probably won't worry about it too much
04:47.23brlcadabsolutely
04:47.30starseekerlord knows I pull lisp code from all sorts of repos
04:47.41``Erikyeh, lisp sucks like that
04:47.48starseeker(I have a script system similar to yours, from the sound of it - kinda cool :-)
04:47.49``Erikeverything but fossil (and mercurial)
04:47.54brlcadactually I mean I'm not going to worry about it too much .. this isn't a major problem being solved :)
04:48.46brlcadif it works without hassle, great .. it'll have one of the previous maintainer's blessing and continued involvement while still providing a public infrastructure where development can continue
04:49.09starseekeryukonbob: if we get people merging back their tkhtml3 fixes into the new "main tree" we'll call it a success
04:49.16brlcadthe docs looked like it's pretty simple enough to use, and if I don't have to set it up, even better
04:50.06yukonbobthe build generates a single binary, which acts as client/server, including http interface for webbrowser.
04:50.26starseekerum - which build?  you mean hv3?
04:50.42starseekeror fossil?
04:50.45yukonboboh -- I thought was talking still about fossil.
04:50.48brlcadmost concerned about 1) getting access so we can grant other people access that are interested, 2) getting existing patches integrated, 3) getting a separation of hv3 and tkhtml3, 4) getting public infrastructure set up for easy patch/bug reporting, 5) getting a new releae posted
04:50.49starseekerah :-)
04:51.15``Erikfossil has a tarball download feature, right? (asking with my port maintainer hat on)
04:51.29yukonbob.zip
04:51.38starseeker``Erik: wouldn't a release tarball do fine?
04:52.06brlcadthinks this is a dead horse and gets back to doing something productive ;)
04:52.08starseekertalcite will probably need one for Fedora
04:52.10``Erikyes, the fossil website provides for a static link of SOME kinda archive?
04:52.25``Eriknot vcs-only?
04:52.27starseekerbrlcad: heh, sorry :-)
04:52.35talcitehmm?
04:52.50yukonbob``Erik: .zip
04:52.52starseekeryou'll want a release tarball of tkhtml for Fedora integration, yes?
04:53.04yukonbobheads to Real Problems too.
04:53.08``Erikscrew fedora, freebsd :)
04:53.17starseekerhehe
04:53.22starseekeranyway, we should be good
04:53.29starseekeris on vacation, heads to non-problems
04:53.34``Erikif'n there's a static url that I can get a .tar.gz .tar.bz2 or .zip, it's all good
04:53.58``Erikif not, I'll be a whiney bitch
04:54.14starseekerresists comments that would get his ass kicked next year...
04:54.24brlcadyou'll just find some other reason to be a whiney bitch
04:54.37``Erik:D
04:55.10``ErikI'd LIKE to split tkhtml3 out of the fbsd port build and make it it's own port...
04:55.46``Erikthat anything in src/other/ has to compile irks me
04:56.09starseekeryou and every other distro in existence...
04:57.07starseekerhas flashbacks to the Great Gentoo Ebuild Debate...
04:57.46brlcadwants to rename the Utah Raster Toolkit
04:58.00starseekerwhat'd you have in mind?
04:58.08brlcadnothing as yet
04:58.22brlcadthere's the URT toolset and librle/libutahrle
04:58.32``Erikstarseeker: I'm from the fbsd camp... we do things RIGHT, y'all can follow along ;>
04:58.34talcitezip is fine. I can package that
04:58.37starseekerthinks renaming is a good idea
04:58.39brlcadlibrle works well for that portion
04:58.50brlcadURT is the harder part
04:59.42brlcadrletools
04:59.58starseekergonna break it out into two separate trees?
05:00.14brlcadwe needed to do that for our own purposes
05:00.23brlcadsome repos also did similar
05:00.23starseekerah, k
05:26.03talciteare we using only SCL or also EXPRESS, EXPRESS pretty printer, etc?
05:28.25talcitealso, same question about InterViews, ObjectStore as well
05:29.38brlcadwe use libexpress
05:29.49brlcadportions of SCL too iirc
05:31.18talciteso build SCL + express, but not IV/OS?
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05:49.45talciteman. SCL is a complete mess
05:49.54talcitecalling configure compiles the program!
05:51.34brlcadoh are you working with their original tarball?
05:51.52brlcadthere are a slew of build system tweaks it really needed
05:58.38talcitebrlcad: ack. Really? Will these be made before release?
05:58.51talciteour release*
05:59.13talciteIt's currently blowing up because of compiler name I think
06:02.53talciteblah. I'll look at this tomorrow. Head to sleep now.
07:57.54CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37056 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db5_io.c: quellage
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12:26.45CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r37057 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (128 files):
12:26.45CIA-38BRL-CAD: Start of updates to cleanup compile warnings including cleaned up of some
12:26.45CIA-38BRL-CAD: variable shadowing, namespace path additions to standard IO items, cleaned up of
12:26.45CIA-38BRL-CAD: some CPP defs in the STEP generated code(will need to address in 'fedex')
12:29.20CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r37058 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (34 files):
12:29.20CIA-38BRL-CAD: Start of updates to cleanup compile warnings including cleaned up of some
12:29.20CIA-38BRL-CAD: variable shadowing, namespace path additions to standard IO items, cleaned up of
12:29.20CIA-38BRL-CAD: some CPP defs in the STEP generated code(will need to address in 'fedex')
12:31.50CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r37059 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (55 files):
12:31.50CIA-38BRL-CAD: Start of updates to cleanup compile warnings including cleaned up of some
12:31.50CIA-38BRL-CAD: variable shadowing, namespace path additions to standard IO items, cleaned up of
12:31.50CIA-38BRL-CAD: some CPP defs in the STEP generated code(will need to address in 'fedex')
12:36.15CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r37060 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (127 files):
12:36.15CIA-38BRL-CAD: Start of updates to cleanup compile warnings including cleaned up of some
12:36.15CIA-38BRL-CAD: variable shadowing, namespace path additions to standard IO items, cleaned up of
12:36.15CIA-38BRL-CAD: some CPP defs in the STEP generated code(will need to address in 'fedex')
12:38.36CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r37061 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/SdaiCONFIG_CONTROL_DESIGN.cc:
12:38.36CIA-38BRL-CAD: Start of updates to cleanup compile warnings including cleaned up of some
12:38.36CIA-38BRL-CAD: variable shadowing, namespace path additions to standard IO items, cleaned up of
12:38.36CIA-38BRL-CAD: some CPP defs in the STEP generated code(will need to address in 'fedex')
12:42.32CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r37062 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/clstepcore/ExpDict.h: Cleaned up CPP defs to quell compiler warning.
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15:32.58CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r37063 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/clstepcore/ExpDict.h: quell some cast warnings... (probably should have a "const char *" method, instead)
15:34.31CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r37064 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/MassUnit.cpp: add missing semicolon
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16:45.09``Erik<PROTECTED>
16:46.49``Erik15 second load time, nifty
16:47.25``Erik13 that time, must be a nfs vs memory cached thing
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17:24.42__monty__A bit late, but Happy Anniversary!
17:25.19brlcad:)
17:25.26brlcadthanks __
17:25.37brlcader, thanks __monty__
17:26.03__monty__Say, are you still working on the brl cad not working on mac thing?
17:26.19brlcadamong other things, yes
17:26.39__monty__Any progress?
17:27.20brlcadsome but not ready for an updated test just yet
17:27.41__monty__Ok.
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17:29.16CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37065 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/nmgmodel.c: quellage and cleanup
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21:08.56*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@162.Red-81-32-97.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
21:46.01CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37066 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (4 files): update a few more overlooked iostreamers to be std:: namespace scoped.
22:21.22brlcadfixes the license on the tkhtml sf.net project
23:03.34``Erikah, so ya got r00tage
23:17.34``Erikbrlcad: indianlarry got a call and I didn't have an answer, if someone kills a tree, is there any chance to recoup the data from that file? (it was closed, but nothing else was changed after the kill)
23:26.14*** join/#brlcad akafubu (n=akafubu@unaffiliated/akafubu)
23:31.22brlcadyeah, I was talking to him about that
23:32.33``Erikwhat's the situation at the moment?
23:35.54brlcadwell what I'd told him and what I looked up are different
23:36.37brlcador at least, clarified
23:37.25brlcadso short summary is that some of the data can be recouped, but probably not worth it
23:37.43``Erikso they added you to the project, but are still listed as admins? was their interest clarified?
23:37.58brlcadyou'd have to reconstruct the object type
23:38.04``Erikwait, what you'd told who? did indianlarry get you about the data loss?
23:38.08brlcadand if it's a small object, it's gone, gets wiped out
23:38.24brlcadyeah, indianlarry and I talked briefly
23:38.36``Erikah, I figured that the objects would still be alive, but the names would be gone... it'd be like a lost+found full of inode # files
23:38.37brlcadI thought it was just a flag, but I'm seeing that it's not
23:38.39``Erikwhere each file is a primitive
23:38.58brlcadwe wipe out the object wrapper, replacing it with a deleted object stub
23:39.18brlcadwhich is basically like lost+found
23:39.31brlcadbut the unfortunate trick is that's only for "large" objects
23:39.37brlcadbigger than a block
23:39.51brlcadso combs are gone gone, most implicit prims are gone
23:40.28brlcadyou'd be able to extract binunifs, some BoTs, NMGs, etc
23:40.34``Erikah, I didn't think anything was really wiped other than name, it just went into an unused list for reallocation
23:40.48``Erikfragmentation is a beeyotch
23:41.20``Erikbob says we'll have undo in a few months, keith thought it was a solid argument for using a geometry server
23:41.37brlcadthe "small" objects are small enough that they get wiped to save making extra I/O calls
23:42.06brlcadlarge are just stubbed similarly, to minimize the I/O with just two small calls instead of an arbitrary large call
23:43.05``Erikhm, we should probably sort out undo before pushing hard on a new file format, carrying history between sessions could be handy
23:52.05*** join/#brlcad Nohla (n=jesica@168.226.178.49)
23:53.07brlcadwe probably could do deletions better, in a semi-recoverable fashion
23:53.13brlcadwithout breaking format even
23:54.01``Erikyeh, but I think I like the notion of having a full undelete tree (not list) on opening a file
23:54.04``Erikspace be damned
23:54.20``Erikmebbe a function or utility to purge history if desired
23:54.27``Erikso folk can save space, or hide their shame
23:54.39``Erikdoes emacs support undo trees?
23:55.03``Erikvim has a feature where you can undelete a few times, do more edits, then go back down the history and choose which branch to follow for redos
23:55.06brlcadbecause deleted objects ultimately are just marked with a bit flag
23:55.10brlcadDB5HDR_HFLAGS_DLI_FREE_STORAGE
23:55.21brlcadthat already exists
23:55.25brlcadgarbage_collect
23:55.50brlcadthat will collapse all free space, reclaim space
23:55.54``Erikgarbage collect compacts, but if we retain zomfg undo history in the file, that's an orthogenal issue I think
23:56.03brlcadahh
23:56.07brlcadthat sort of history
23:56.58``Erikyeh, unless there's any valid concern, I'd advote being able to do a series of edits, quit mged, start mged and open the file and be able to undo down that history set
23:57.33brlcademacs does a sort of circular linked list undo, where undos themselves are just added to the list so you can undo your undos and fully unwind/rewind
23:57.47``ErikI would argue that file size isn't an issue until it becomes one, worrying about it now would be wasteful
23:58.06``Erikyeh, so it doesn't grok branching
23:58.37``Erikedit a, edit b, edit c, undo, undo, edit d, undo, redo a.... that's possible in vim as of 6.0
23:58.40``ErikI think it was 6.0
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091230

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091230

00:00.09brlcadI can't say I've really had an issue with emacs undo, it's pretty nifty
00:00.37brlcadyour example didn't make much since, you never undid a to redo a
00:00.57``Erikoh, well, vim records undo trees, not undo lists
00:01.06``Erikeven if my example missed an undo
00:01.46``Erik"redo b"
00:01.47``Erikthere
00:01.58brlcadnot clear to me what that really means in the context of editing files
00:02.41``Erikif you undo and change something else, either you throw away the 'redo' capability, or you require a tree of changes... vim changed to hold the tree
00:02.53brlcadthat exact same list of actions is what emacs would do too
00:04.25brlcadagain the trick being that an undo really just adds a new edit event which can itself still be undone
00:04.59brlcadbasically lets you play back any/every action all the way back to the last save
00:05.20brlcadincluding undos and undos of undos and whatever intermediate actions
00:05.24``Erikhm, I'm not good enough with emacs to have figured out how to use undo well
00:05.44``Erik^xu is what I used, I think
00:05.44*** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (n=Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1)
00:05.45brlcadctrl+shift+_
00:05.56``Erikor, uh, C-x u
00:06.22brlcadthat's redo
00:07.32brlcadwill play the actions back forward again (so say you undid every single action, you could redo everything to get back to where you were regardless of intermediate steps)
00:08.05brlcadpretty darn nifty
00:09.08brlcadsounds maybe like vim caught up with the same feature (but perhaps via diff implementation mechanism)
00:10.07``Erikhrm, d'no *shrug* not versed enough in emacs to honestly compare 'em, even though I spent most of the day in emacs
00:10.51``Erikmy rough guess would be that understanding undo as a queued event is one thing, but still a lot more linear than going tree based
00:11.57brlcadwow, GSL is about a quarter million lines of code
00:12.32``Erikhttp://www.gnu.org/software/gsl/ ?
00:13.41brlcadyep
00:14.29brlcadusing their root solving to validate a change to our root solver
00:15.04brlcadlast I compared, we get the same results as expected
00:15.18brlcadwe were just a solid order of magnitude faster
00:15.41``Erikwhat about mathematica or maple or something?
00:15.54``Erikor writing one up in an absolute system, like scheme or haskell?
00:16.03brlcadwhat?
00:16.05brlcadwhat for?
00:16.06brlcad:)
00:16.14brlcadgo for it
00:16.18``Erikto see how bad the floating point fuzz hurts us
00:16.33brlcadi can't imagine mathematica being faster on basic root solving
00:16.39``Erikno, not faster
00:16.50``Erikbut "more correct", perhaps
00:17.07brlcadthough this is at a raw API level I was comparing -- how long to get roots for polynomial of various degree
00:17.41brlcadthat was the diff, gsl would do arbitrary degree -- we were compile-time limited to a fixed degree
00:17.53``Erikah, aight :)
00:18.07``ErikI might have some old code from college for root solving via various techniques
00:18.10brlcadi compared about a half-dozen solvers I found around the net
00:18.20brlcadsome academic, few packages like gsl
00:18.26``ErikI vagually recall writing a newtonian one in haskell that was ass slow, the scheme version was a few orders of magnitude faster
00:18.35``Eriklike, finished in minutes instead of not having an answer over the weekend
00:18.48brlcadI thought we were really slow, which is why I was looking
00:18.50``Erikbut single root solver, not general
00:18.59brlcadbut turned out that we beat everything I could find and tested against
00:19.19brlcadone other implementation had about the same performance, within a couple percent
00:19.34``Eriksee, that's why I'm asking about correctness... it's easy to generate fast wrong answers... :D
00:19.56brlcadthey were all correct answers
00:20.08``Erikum, like the xkcd commit about random number generators... /* proven correct */ int random() { return 4; }
00:20.09brlcador at least everyone produced the same results :P
00:20.11``Erik:)
00:20.15``Erikwithin?
00:20.28brlcadwithin floating point tol
00:20.30brlcaddouble tol
00:20.35``Erikokie
00:20.38``Erikcool beans
00:20.40brlcadclose enough
00:21.13brlcadI'm sure there's still plenty of edge case or more extreme polynomials that our simple one can't solve
00:21.53``ErikI did g-nmg on a file that produces a .g which crashes on dirbuild, any insight?
00:22.13brlcadinsight #1: fix it
00:22.20brlcadinsight #2: don't do that
00:22.24``Erikhehehe
00:22.53``Erikg-nmg -o file-nmg.g file.g toplevel   <-- gives a fruity .g file! :D
00:22.54brlcadis full of insightful comments
00:23.25brlcaddid g-nmg say it went to completion?
00:23.29``Erikyup
00:23.35``Erikit was a big file
00:23.56``Erikwas to come up with a faster loading demo for isst, so you know the file
00:24.19``ErikI did manage up a 200k face m35 for demoing
00:24.24brlcadmy guess would be that some intermediate object failed, but is still referenced -- and dirbuild has some bad juju that assumes the missing object should be there and bites the dust
00:24.54brlcaddefinitely something to fix in dirbuild
00:25.27``Erikstill at the office? I can tell ya where the criminal .g file is
00:25.45``Erikcan also point you to a .g file that flips out because every effin' matrix is all 0's heh
00:25.58brlcaddon't wanna look at it at the moment, or i'll be here till midnight
00:26.07``Erikor I can bitch at ya for those sun machines
00:26.18brlcadmatrix of 0's is probably endian
00:26.30brlcaddirbuild succeeds, but all the floats are hozerd
00:26.31``Erikv5 db
00:26.46brlcada v5 from an upgraded v4, upgraded on the wrong plat
00:27.03``Erik*shrug* perhaps
00:27.13``Eriktrying to remember where I pulled it up last
00:27.39``Erikit's a simple r/c plane, small model
00:29.50brlcada good bit of cleanup on the step code.. cut the warnings at least in half I think
00:30.02``Erikdepends on the compiler
00:30.05brlcadwonders what all the "will never be executed" warnings are all about
00:30.18``ErikExpDir.h was the majority of warnings for my bsd build
00:31.38brlcadlooks like most of those execution warnings are on object constructors..
00:33.32brlcadtries a sick test
00:34.43brlcadwow, he already did
00:35.51brlcad~seen madant
00:35.52ibotmadant <i=cb7baf0f@gateway/web/freenode/x-a32eed164597bd06> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 179d 4h 13m 58s ago, saying: 'nothing more disastrous than non-cooperative softwares ;)'.
00:35.59brlcad~seen homovulgaris
00:36.00ibothomovulgaris <n=d@117.196.131.215> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 505d 20h 43m 29s ago, saying: 'sean, on a scale of 1 to 10 how much trouble would one face when trying to make a .deb package for brlcad ?'.
00:36.05brlcadhrmph
00:36.33brlcadhe really did a nice piece of work fixing our root solver parameters
00:36.44brlcadthey were all in reverse order, he flipped them right
00:37.02brlcadand he wrote a little test harness that compares to gsl results
00:37.08brlcadshowing the diff
00:38.36``Erikand lets home gsl isn't flawed O.o :D
00:38.39brlcadhttp://paste.bzflag.bz/m4050e32c
01:19.23brlcadlooks like gsl has improved, only about 5% slower now (very consistently)
01:20.19``Erik<PROTECTED>
01:21.08``Erikheheheheheheheh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bs_Lk5iQzc :D always makes me smile
01:53.58starseekerbrlcad: that mean the patch with coefficient changes is good to go in?
01:54.24brlcadstarseeker: it looks like it, still testing
01:54.30starseekersweeet
01:54.32brlcadi'll commit, it needed a few minor tweaks
01:54.38starseekercool
01:54.40brlcadbut in all, nice work
01:54.53starseekeris stuck in windoze land anyhow til next year...
01:55.15brlcadthe gsl comparison is the best part, but alas .. :)
01:55.21brlcadmaybe keep the test harness code as example
01:55.53starseekernods - maybe have it as an optional part of the regression testing?
01:56.15brlcadthe testing to link against gsl is too peripheral
01:56.19starseekeror even some special "make rootcompare" test?
01:56.21starseekerah
01:57.13brlcadunless...
01:57.29brlcadi make it an option in our solver itself to use gsl as an alternative impl
01:57.37brlcadcould be interesting
01:57.41starseekerhmm - that could be cool
01:57.48``Erikcompile time? or?
01:57.59brlcadyep
01:58.09``Erik'k, branches are insanely expensive on modern x86
01:58.33``Erikwe're at what, twenty something deep on the pipeline?
01:59.09brlcadstarseeker: did you have a good tgc failure test case handy?
01:59.24brlcadi know there's tire's eto's, they could be tested
02:00.06brlcadlots of complete episodes .. :)
02:00.56``Erikdo we have an m35 with 'good' tires on it? I did a g-nmg on it with 200k triangles in the output, loads up fast in isst and looks pretty decent, but the tires look odd
02:01.39``Erikand tires should give me lots of triangles in a cheap kd-tree :D
02:02.25starseekerbrlcad: havoc has that tgc that's giving rtgl fits, but I didn't isolate it yet
02:03.10starseeker``Erik: you probably don't want to tesselate one with tire tool tires - iirc the last time we tesselated those it was... um... interesting
02:03.54``Erikinteresting how? I'd imagine it'd be brutal on the nmg csg shtuff, but the results should be clean
02:03.58starseekerbrlcad eventually got one when we turned the tread off
02:04.16starseekertook quite a while
02:04.22``Erikah, hrm
02:04.56starseekerit's a torture test for the tesselatorer
02:05.19``Erikdamn
02:05.28``Erik:/ I might have to spend time on tha tmarching cubes crap
02:06.33starseekerextruded sketches interesected with combinations based on etos...
02:07.39``Eriksounds like a great test case for bug fixing
02:07.52``Erikis still waiting for brlcad to give him obj files to test obj-g and make that work
02:08.08starseekercan blender generate them?
02:08.30starseekeror wings3d?
02:09.16``Erikobj files? I'd imagine so... I have a test set, but I'm only going to finish up a subset, brlcad made it sound like he had 'real world' models he wanted converted, so I was hoping to see what subset of functionality from that
02:10.58*** join/#brlcad Nohla (n=jesica@168.226.178.49)
02:13.07starseekershould fix that geometry duplication in the tire tool output - that might be making the tesselation unduly difficult
02:16.33*** join/#brlcad Nohla (n=jesica@168.226.178.49)
02:33.12starseekerwishes he had that graphviz visualization of the tire tree...
02:35.55starseeker``Erik: how come the tire command on the bz install of BRL-CAD can't find libtcl?
02:40.53``Erikhte old bz, or the new bz?
02:40.57starseekerold
02:41.07starseeker``Erik: how does one get to the new bz?
02:41.12``Erikcuz it's an ancient piece of shit that needs to be killed?
02:41.23starseeker``Erik: ah
02:41.42``Erikno, seriously, it was out of date over 5 years ago
02:44.49Nohlastarseeker hello, little prince :)
02:44.56starseekerhola!
02:45.52starseekernote to self - REALLY need to make a smaller version of the tire poster...
02:46.02starseekerredo in inkscape if I have to...
02:46.59starseekeror see if the version of ghostscript on my gentoo box has learned any new tricks...
02:48.44``Erikyou have the photoshop version? it can be saved as a pdf in 'preview'
02:49.00starseekeroh, have pdf
02:49.19starseekerApple's desktop publishing software was the original generator
02:49.55``Erikpdf is pretty squished...
02:50.04starseekerprobably had images too big
02:57.01``Erik"save as png"?
02:58.22``Erikgrumbles as his lisp markov 'disassociated text' has some funky issues with new nodes not being created quite right
02:59.43``Erikit was all disgustingly easy until the recursive call to generate the dictionary ate a wrong type, and now it's hard figure out why *grumble* is assoc not doing what the docs say?
03:00.46starseekerwho's fault is it? sbcl?
03:00.53``Erikwell
03:01.40``Erik(setf (cadr d) (acons (pair l) '(()()) (cadr d)))
03:02.22``Erik(add-dictionary-word (assoc (pair l) (cadr d)) l 0)
03:02.35``Erikthat assoc keeps coming up with nil, when it shoulda just been defined
03:03.28``Erikusing sbcl, yes... but assoc should just work, I'm not sure if I'm feeding it wrong
03:04.18``ErikI'm sure I'm making a stupid mistake, but I've thrashed all over :/
03:04.43*** join/#brlcad Nohla (n=jesica@168.226.178.49)
03:05.32starseeker``Erik: I take it #lisp would just be insulting?
03:06.22``ErikI'm not feeling up to snuff to defend myself at the moment... I don't think I've put enough time/thought to it
03:06.42``Erik<-- notes that he's grumbling here, not asking for help :D
03:07.56``Erikthere's a lisp weirdness where something like '(() ()) comes up as '() in some cases
03:08.07``ErikI might just need to use a dummy symbol to expand teh lists
03:09.07starseekerah
03:09.12``Erik<-- is fighting emacs as much as lisp... gave up on gui emacs and started using -nw this afternoon, coudln't get a nice black background
03:09.50``Eriky'know, when I wasn't reading webcomics or yelling at indianlarry for breaking teh build :)
03:10.45``Erik(it's on my idp, damnit.)
03:11.12starseekerproblem lives somewhere around tire.c:1371
03:11.21starseekertire-upper-sides definitions
03:14.43``Erikwith the duplicated geometry?
03:15.04starseekeryes
03:15.36starseekergetting three instances of EllClip when there appear to be only two mk_addmember calls
03:15.41``Erikstarseeker: do any of your cats have an object they're obsessed with dragging around?
03:17.40starseekershe likes her blue sparkly ball, but she's not terribly obsessed with it
03:17.55starseekerusually doesn't carry anything with her
03:18.29``Erikah, I have a furry cat fishing pole, the boy needs to drag his 'kill' all over the place
03:18.31starseeker``Erik: when's the last update to BRL-CAD on the new server?
03:18.58starseekercan't gdb this sucker very well...
03:19.04``Erikum, /usr/brlcad is an svn from a week or two ago, /usr/local/brlcad is like 7.14.smomething
03:19.13starseekerhmm
03:19.14starseekerok
03:19.38``Erikfeel free to build your own :)
03:19.51starseeker``Erik: yeah, she'll "kill" her catnip pillow sometimes
03:20.26``ErikI keep putting this thing in the living room downstairs, it keeps ending up in my bed O.o
03:20.33starseekerhehe
03:21.17``Erikupdating /usr/brlcad/HEAD with a fresh checkout now
03:21.32starseekerwill have to step through this to figure out why the frap the boolean logic is odd...
03:22.39starseekermay have to wait til I have better setup (sorry ``Erik :/)
03:23.14``Erik*shrug* ain't no skin off my nose
03:23.15starseekerI'm not real sure why the standard m35 tires are hozed
03:23.21starseekerthey shouldn't be
03:23.22*** join/#brlcad Nohla (n=jesica@168.226.178.49)
03:23.24``Erikhozed?
03:23.34``Erikthe m35 tires convert just fine, they're just ... boring
03:23.41starseekerwhen Nick did his rtgl stuff, one side of the m35 tires didn't raytrace right
03:23.51starseekermight not actually be the fault of the tires though
03:23.57starseekeroh, OK ;-)
03:24.33starseekerdid do an m35 with fancy tires, but I think the "correct" size looked kinda puny
03:24.40``ErikI was figuring that procdb tires would look a lot better and provide a lot mroe triangles without any signicant deepening of the kd-tree
03:24.49starseekerbigger ones overlaped, which I could ignore for screenshots but isst would kinda care
03:25.07``Erikand I'd recalled seeing and m35 with 2 tires replaces, so'z I was wondering if there was one with all 11 or whatever redone
03:25.23starseekertrue, although the tires have some tree depth (4 or 5 levels, forget offhand)
03:25.34``Erik(2+8+1, right?)
03:25.51starseekeryeah, I had done it once, but I don't know if I ever got it "right" in the overlap free sense
03:25.53``ErikI doubt we're talking the same trees
03:26.03starseekerprobably not
03:26.12starseekeris talkin csg tree
03:26.22``Eriklibtie kdtree's would fluff maybe a dozen or two in the tire areas
03:26.33starseekersh
03:26.35starseekerer ah
03:26.47``Erikkd-tree's are axis aligned binary splitting plane trees
03:27.23starseekerI think the "right" way to do that is to generate tires without wheels and then sub in for just the "rubber" part - should be able to minimize/avoid overlaps that way
03:27.39starseekerthe m35 wheel is rather different from the tire tool's default wheel
03:27.46``Erikthe wheels you defined are very not military style
03:28.06starseekeryeah, was just doing something "quick and dirty"
03:28.27``Erikheh, too much "pretty", not enough "quick and dirty" :D
03:28.39starseekerlots of fun that could be had with that tool, given time
03:29.04``ErikI can give you a pretty correct rim for a stryker or hummer, they're utterly boring
03:29.17``Erikthe most excitement is hidden by the rubber on 'em
03:29.27starseeker``Erik: <snort> the whole thing was an exercise in "doing a proc-db", just like the pen model was "learning mged" - establishing early on my obsession with unnecessary detail ;-)
03:29.36``Eriky'know
03:29.47``Erikone of these days, I'll do something like the pen exercise O.o
03:30.04starseeker``Erik: yeah, for most real applications tire without wheel is probably how that will get used - most people have purty wheels of their own
03:30.25``Erik<-- came in and was sat down with a machine, an os disc and a source disc... told "port this to fbsd 5.1, then convert it to autotools"
03:30.41starseeker``Erik: what, you learn mged?  Let me know when you do so I can pre-book skating tickets for hell
03:30.45``Eriknever had a "learn how to model" phase
03:30.58starseekeror you could wait til MGED 2.0 I suppose...
03:31.16``Erikno, seriously, I wasn't allowed on the network, so I got a throw-away machine, os disc and a cd with the source on it...
03:31.23``Erikand parked in a room
03:31.29starseekerah :-)
03:31.29``Eriknext to mike
03:32.03``Erikfirst day, "here's a mchine, here's an OS disc, here's the source... port it."
03:32.13starseekerhehe
03:32.23starseekeryeah, I came in a lot dumber :-P
03:32.30starseekerhad to get up to speed
03:33.01``ErikI had bsd chops and auto* chops, but I did an awful lot of asking people to test what I'd done to see if I'd done it right...
03:33.09``Erike.e. was one of my primary victems
03:33.25``Erik"bubba"
03:33.49``Erikand you came in knowing a lot more about BRL-CAD than I did
03:34.16``Erikthey were nice to you :D
03:34.17starseekerwell, the coding/automake chops let you start doing "useful work" pronto
03:34.29starseekerheh
03:35.18``Erikauto* was a "possible way to go" at the time, not a guaranteed thing, it was very much cake
03:35.44starseekerwell, it sure worked out in the end :-)
03:37.46``ErikI put a lot of work into it, then brlcad went and did horrible horrible things to my baby
03:37.57brlcadheh
03:37.59``Erikand now it's a frankenstein monster :D
03:38.05brlcadnow it's complete
03:38.29starseekerso the docbook stuff is just the icing on the cake in frankensteinian terms? :-P
03:38.36``Erikum, I think the tag exists in svn, something liek AUTOCONF_200311XX
03:39.15``Erikso when's the old crud on brlcad.org migrating to crit, brlcad? :)
03:40.30starseekerbrlcad: I haven't had a chance to test it - did adding the mkdir commands to the docbook build rules avoid that issue on highly parallel docbook builds?
03:41.20brlcadstarseeker: dunno
03:41.33starseekerah, k - have to check when I get back in
03:41.50``Erik20031203
03:42.02``Erikwow,w as much simpler back then, configure.in was 225 lines
03:42.02starseekeralso needs to check if the 3dm-g tool got busted by the opennurbs upgrade...
03:44.41starseekeralso need to figure out how to enable the tk framebuffer without killing mged... still not sure why that's happening
03:45.10starseekerkinda hard to figure out how complete it is when it takes out the whole gui :-(
03:45.46starseekernotes more SIGGRAPH spam has arrived...
04:12.05starseekerhrm - build fails
04:13.27starseekerGlobalUnitAssignedContext.cpp:27 in SdaiCONFIG_CONTROL_DESIGN.h:2534 error expected "," or "..." before '&' token
04:14.06starseekercalls it a night
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04:50.51brlcadno /me doesn't get that error
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11:42.30``Erikdang, yet more tkhtml3 breakage
12:22.01``Erik(apparently, tclsh isn't always named tclsh, sometimes it's tclsh85)
13:07.15``Erikßs hrm http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1926917
14:41.41d-lo_``Erik: Sent you an email at your gmail and bzflag.bz accounts.
14:42.18``Erikthanks
15:01.38CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37067 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bot/ (bot.c g_bot_include.c): make RT_BOT_UNORIENTED_NORM() macro take the in/out 'param' as a bool for indicating exit instead of toggling on positive/negative. also nix the RT_ prefix as this is not public api.
15:41.35brlcadhaha... http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1735402 (nsfw, but just because of language)
15:42.03brlcadthat's classic b'more
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16:13.56``Erikoh, the car commercial, yeh :D
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16:21.46CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r37068 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): more warning quellage, also pushed back mods to fedex_plus generated code
16:47.15d-lo_that whole FEDEX thing in the step code throws me off every time I see it. lol
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18:18.15CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37069 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bot/bot.c: quell verbose warnings. there were two exact floating point comparisons in here, so potential behavior change (i.e., hopefully more robust/consistent).
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19:02.33``Erikheh, I used to work at FedEx, so imagine what it does to me :D
19:07.31CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37070 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (6 files in 3 dirs): more slews of quellage and cleanup, dead code elimination, exact floating point comparisons, and param checking
19:24.15brlcadmm, the problem was exactly what bob and I speculated last night
19:24.29brlcadlooks like windows is being harsh on the tclIndx generation, at least more strict
19:24.36brlcadand not indexing some files
19:25.21CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r37071 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (adrt/adrt.vcproj brlcad/brlcad.sln): add adrt to brlcad project
19:31.03``ErikYes. I broke it. Real bad.
19:32.34``Erikand msvc has been 'not responding' for like fifteen minutes, so *shrug*
19:59.39CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37072 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: too vague a bug, msvc build files have changed drastically since then anyways
20:02.58CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37073 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS:
20:02.58CIA-38BRL-CAD: mged on windows is not generating the tclindex files correctly. could be a
20:02.58CIA-38BRL-CAD: simple parsing error or some other problem in the code bug a variety of files
20:02.58CIA-38BRL-CAD: aren't getting indexed (notably the pattern tool and sketch editor but also some
20:02.58CIA-38BRL-CAD: simple commands like bot and per_line.
20:16.16CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37074 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/ (10 files): quell all of the old nurbs code verbse warnings safe for one bogus unreachable code warning on a goto label. lots and lots of exact floating point comparisons.. should be more robust now even if it is going away rsn.
20:17.45CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37075 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: reported that fbclear is not working on windows build of mged.
20:31.11``Erikòò/cl
20:32.34CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37076 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h: unused quellage
20:34.04CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37077 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): add a bu_list parameter so we can make rt_nurb_intersect get called recursively when surfaces are split. this is an alternative to the former goto method and quells an unreachable warning.
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20:44.15CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37078 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/dsp/dsp.c: quell verbose dsp warnings. lots and lots of exact floating point comparisons to zero and one changed to within tol tests.
20:44.49CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37079 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (cline/cline.c dsp/dsp_brep.cpp): more param and unused var quelling, s/log/logstr/ too
20:46.36``Erikhehehe http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=36099539665548298
20:55.08brlcadthat's an oldie
21:08.22``Eriksrc/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_rt_isect.c:1936: error: too few arguments to function 'rt_nurb_intersect'
21:08.36``Erikforget to commit something?
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21:29.20CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37080 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_rt_isect.c: blechk! nmg cross-pollution with the old nurbs code.. rt_nurb_intersect() had another param added.
21:29.33brlcadnot reading your commit diffs, eh?
21:29.51``Erikmine? huh?
21:30.42brlcadnvr mind
21:40.40CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r37081 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/iges/trimsurf.c: add missing parameter
21:41.55brlcadwow
21:41.56brlcadthat's just wrong
21:42.10``Erikwhat, did I break something horrible?
21:42.12brlcadiges converter is actually shooting rays at nurbs
21:42.23``Erikoh, heh
21:42.40brlcadwhat you did is fine
21:42.45``Erik<-- just did a monkey mimic of your patch to that file, didn't bother, y'know, looking
21:42.47brlcadthe fact that the iges converter is doing that....
21:43.02brlcadthat any code is calling that nurb internal routine
21:43.07``Erikso wasn't sure if I screwed that up :)
21:43.12brlcadnah
21:43.51brlcadi'm still on strict build, so can't build through to get to any latent callers
21:44.27``Erikso build out of dir and have two builds, one strict and one not :D
21:48.15brlcadthis is already so utterly painfully tedious as it is to make it twice as painful
21:48.41brlcadall to prevent the 1/100 chance that there's some triviality later in the build
21:50.59brlcadit's also not like anyone else is jumping in to help get these all taken care of more quickly either :P
22:00.40``Erikyeah, damn shame about that :D
22:03.49``Erikrt_bot_tess() *sigh* why didn't I think of that earlier?
22:06.57CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37082 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (8 files in 6 dirs): mas quellerismos, floating point comparisons, unused vars/params
22:09.51CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37083 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (extrude/extrude.c half/half.c table.c): s/free/release/ to avoid shadowing the function
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23:39.00brlcadmm.. this should be interesting
23:39.06brlcadfloating point comparisons in nmg
23:39.28``Erikheh, um, have fun with that :D *duck*
23:39.45``Eriknmg's already raytrace arse slow
23:40.05brlcadthere are in boolean evaluation, should help
23:40.37``Eriky'know, I"ve seen geometry errors thrown on nmg tesselation...
23:40.45``Erikstarting with facet type nmg's...
23:41.16``ErikI'm not sure if I'm willing to commit the time to chase that just yet, I have other pressing issues to worry about
23:41.38``Erikbut, ... yeah, wtfage :)
23:41.51brlcadgeometry errors on nmg tess are normal
23:42.02brlcadpart of it guessing which paths to take
23:42.22``Eriksoooo, nmg->nmg is expected to fail?
23:42.24brlcadnon-facet nmgs are no longer relevant
23:42.36``Erikright, but still listed as a flag
23:42.41``Erikand used in some bits
23:42.42brlcadnmg->nmg could fail depending how the original nmg was created
23:42.47``Erikg-nmg
23:42.50brlcadif it wasn't validated
23:43.17brlcadthat's so high level as to be non-sensical to ask ..
23:43.29brlcadtoo many variables
23:43.32brlcadabove regions, below regions
23:43.34brlcadcombs, prims
23:43.56brlcadis it combining regions or leaving them as separate shels
23:44.00``Erikg-nmg likes to convert a region to a single nmg and attach that as a single object under the region
23:44.25``Erik(EXACTLY what my 'recursive facetizer' card does... can kill that from Ed's wall)
23:44.40brlcadright, but how you were running it changes things too -- you feed it something under a region, for example, or something with a mixed hierarchy where there are paths that are regionless, etc
23:45.06``Erikhm, saw it on m35
23:45.21brlcadjust saying it's way to vague a notion to say anything meaningful, way too many variables unaccounted for
23:45.30brlcadcan't even say it's clean input
23:45.39``ErikI'll look into it a bit when I'm in the office tomorrie
23:45.53brlcadm35 has problems
23:45.59brlcadwhether they matter or not.. dunno
23:46.11brlcadit's gone both ways in the past
23:46.36``Erikeither way, there are issues to be addressed wrt...
23:47.15``Erikif our reference geometry is screwed up, that's bad... if our tools produce bad output... that's bad :)
23:47.52brlcadI think the problem has to be brought back down to basic test cases, make sure primitives all tessellate (which they won't) .. then 0-level combinations
23:48.36``ErikI have a well tesselated m35 (10x better than default tolerance), if it's useful... had one going where the side mirrors gave 200k triangles, killed it :/
23:49.05``Erikon the up side, these issues are giving me impetus to do the marching cubes thang
23:49.24``Erik"cuz lee said" kinda deflated me
23:49.31brlcadg-nmg producing a bad nmg just isn't a good measure of anything -- if it did something wrong, could be a simple bug isolated to that specific tool or the tess approach it uses
23:50.10``Erikthe tool itself is too trivial to break
23:50.19brlcadthe approach most of those use isn't so hot
23:50.24``Eriktoo small to fail :D
23:50.26brlcadI opted for a slightly diff approach for the ef work
23:50.31``Erikef?
23:50.31brlcadmore robust
23:50.57brlcadendgame
23:51.03``Erikah
23:51.30``ErikI thought our contribution to their federation was more "give us a geometry name and ray, we give you a prtition list"?
23:51.41brlcadnothing reusable code-wise, but just a note that the approach they use now isn't consistent across the exporters
23:51.47``Erikwell, no, they do ogl visualization, ya had to gie them triangels
23:51.54``Erikhad to give them triangles
23:52.04CIA-38BRL-CAD: 0367.232.178.197 07http://brlcad.org * r2055 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_eac:
23:52.13brlcadnot at all, did a geometry exporter -- basically .g to their format
23:52.13CIA-38BRL-CAD: 0367.232.178.197 07http://brlcad.org * r2056 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_whichair:
23:52.17brlcadwhich was poly
23:52.31``Erikok, so an exporter, not a federation entity
23:59.46brlcadoh wow
23:59.50brlcadthe code is still in there...
IRC log for #brlcad on 20091231

IRC log for #brlcad on 20091231

00:00.11brlcadthere's debug code in nmg that supposedly will animate the boolean evaluation as it proceeds...
00:01.14brlcadi'd seen a mid-90's video of it in action, but didn't realize it wasn't a temp hack
00:01.32brlcadhuh
00:01.40brlcadsomething to poke at later
00:02.11brlcadrt_g.NMG_debug => DEBUG_PL_ANIM flag
00:30.57``ErikO.o
02:22.34CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37084 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_fcut.c: fix a bug in nmg_insert_vu_if_on_edge() where the new edgeuse wasn't getting set/returned to the caller. additionally quellage cleanup for exact floating point comparisons and unused params
02:27.32CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37085 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (14 files in 8 dirs): major quellage, dead code elimination, unused params/vars, exact floating point comparisons.
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03:24.04Ralith``Erik: [considering] building a marching cubes tesselator?
03:45.20CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37086 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/ (nmg_ck.c nmg_fuse.c nmg_mod.c):
03:45.20CIA-38BRL-CAD: remove nmg_eu_radial_check() since it was commented out and the uncommented
03:45.20CIA-38BRL-CAD: version had not easily resolvable constness problems (it needed a non-const copy
03:45.20CIA-38BRL-CAD: of it's edgeuse to pass to nmg_radial_build_list() yet that list then becomes
03:45.20CIA-38BRL-CAD: disassociated with its eu if it is copied). also a few exact floating point
03:45.23CIA-38BRL-CAD: comparisons changed.
03:50.49``Erikralith: funded and working on it.
03:53.26Ralithawesome!
03:53.57Ralith<PROTECTED>
03:54.11Ralithproportional to grid size, of course
04:05.48``Erikyes, very grid sized impacted
04:06.18``Erikexploratory experiments indicate taking up to a millenia for a vehicle sized object at bn tolerance
04:08.08``Erikaaaanyways, it's gonna work in metaballs as a primitive tesselator, first... so if you're seriously interested, watch there :)
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04:43.54CIA-38BRL-CAD: 0367.232.178.197 07http://brlcad.org * r2057 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_loadtk:
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07:12.25CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37087 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/ (nmg_info.c nmg_inter.c): more quelling. marking unused params, fixing integer conversion types, unreachable code, shadowing, and exact floating point comparisons.
07:21.20CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37088 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_manif.c: it's unsigned, can't be negative
07:21.42CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37089 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_inter.c: stray quote and wrong dist fixed
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08:41.35CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2058 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives:
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09:32.30CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37090 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_misc.c: a bit more complicated quellification. lots of mixed shadowing going on, but no more. also exact floating point compares. mark unused params.
09:51.32CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37091 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_misc.c:
09:51.32CIA-38BRL-CAD: getting a handle on this one took some unexpected concentration. reworked the
09:51.32CIA-38BRL-CAD: logic slightly to avoid the goto jump that was being used to restart the edge
09:51.32CIA-38BRL-CAD: testing. it's actually simple enough to let it fall through if we just make
09:51.33CIA-38BRL-CAD: sure we let it keep track of the edge table correctly (removing our edge before
09:51.35CIA-38BRL-CAD: testing verts, not after). add comments as to what's going on.
10:09.34CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2059 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives:
10:15.02CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2060 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* ellg */
10:18.27CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2061 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* Ellipsoids */
10:27.40CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2062 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* Other */
10:29.03CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37092 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_pt_fu.c: another goto rewrite, this one a bit simpler. plus a few floating point comparison tests.
10:29.06CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2063 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* pipe */
10:37.20CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2064 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* Other solids */
10:39.54CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2065 10/wiki/Talk:Main_Page: New section: [[Talk:Main Page#BRL-CAD Primitives|BRL-CAD Primitives]]
10:41.00CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2066 10/wiki/User:Ssd: New page: I'm just a brl-cad user with a lot of mediawiki experience. Projects I'm currently working on: * [[:Category:MGED]] * [[BRL-CAD Primitives]]
10:42.36CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2067 10/wiki/Talk:Main_Page: /* BRL-CAD Primitives */
10:43.21CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2068 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* Sketch */
10:45.09CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2069 10/wiki/MGED_CMD_make: /* Description */
10:47.03CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2070 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* grip */
10:48.41CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37093 10/brlcad/trunk/ (11 files in 2 dirs):
10:48.41CIA-38BRL-CAD: and with this WHOOOSH.. the remainder of nmg is quellified. quieted sign
10:48.41CIA-38BRL-CAD: warnings, unused params, shadow vars, and floating point comparisons (which now
10:48.41CIA-38BRL-CAD: test via computation tolerance). go ahead and change some of the signatures for
10:48.41CIA-38BRL-CAD: funcs that had unused params that provided little stubbed benefit.
10:50.48CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2071 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* metaball */
10:52.42CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2072 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives:
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14:17.23``Erikstupid snow
14:25.00brlcadheh
14:36.46``Erikno plow here and the snow is up on the rims of the cars outside
14:36.55``Erikso'z I'm immobilized
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16:39.02brlcadstarting to melt here, I think I can make it about now
16:39.25brlcadis happy that more than half of librt is clean now
16:40.26brlcadthose nmg changes should be interesting.. either made things a little better or a little worse, but either way they're now more well-defined :)
16:40.46brlcadfew places I was pretty sure I saw bugs, but needed more careful attention ..
16:41.03brlcadwe really could probably hammer down that whole api and make it work without too much effort
16:41.11brlcadvia test driven development
16:41.40brlcadthat api already breaks things down into neatly isolated routines that generally are written to perform one function
16:44.02CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2073 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* dsp */
16:46.55``Erik<-- lives up in hills, it's a good 5 degrees cooler here than work :/ damn weird, driing out on ice, then driving in water for 95 % of the trip
16:48.13``Erikbobby and daytona have trucks, I imagine starseeker will start seein some "work from home" days soon
16:50.13CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2074 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* half */
16:50.24brlcadgo go gadget ssd
16:55.01``Erikheh
16:57.00CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2075 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* tgc */
16:59.37CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2076 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* trc */
17:00.05starseekerthought it was supposed to be rain, not snow...
17:00.10starseekergrumble...
17:00.25``Erikyeh
17:00.54``Erikhey, tkhtml expecting tclsh instead of tclsh85... is there a clean solution?
17:01.08starseekernot sure
17:01.20``Erikhm
17:01.38``Erika 'virgin' bsd system freaks out on that
17:01.40starseekersince we're going to be maintaining tkhtml3, we could always have its configure script look for tclsh85 if tclsh isn't found
17:01.51``Erik84 85 86... or take a parameter
17:02.11starseekerTEA really needs to be made to play with autotools
17:02.22starseekerwe need a configure.ac/Makefile.am solution
17:02.38starseekeronce I get back I'll take a look at the work apache did along those lines
17:02.46CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2077 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* nmg */
17:03.09starseekerif I get something actually clean/useful put together, I'll email the TEA folks and see what there take on things is...
17:03.19brlcadstarseeker: ssd had a question about all the primitives (see /wiki/Talk:Main_Page)
17:03.29brlcaddidn't you have something started there too?
17:05.05starseekerI did, but it looks like he's ahead of me
17:05.26starseekerexcept probably for the categorization of primitives
17:05.54starseekerhttp://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/geometric_primitives.txt
17:07.57brlcadah, good stuff -- you should share that with him
17:08.05brlcadhe's all about categorization
17:08.39brlcadcouple of his prims aren't prims, but input methods
17:08.45brlcadlike 'box'
17:09.00starseekernods
17:09.14brlcadand a few partially implemented ones missing
17:09.17starseekerdoing the password reset thing for my website account
17:10.01starseekermaybe...
17:10.07starseekerhello email...
17:12.09starseekeris impressed - he actually got the ars primitive to do something
17:13.22brlcadI did that one
17:13.58starseekerah :-)
17:14.00``Erikheh
17:14.03starseekeris still impressed
17:14.15starseekerthat ANYONE got the ars primitive to do something :-P
17:15.04brlcadit's a pretty simple waterline primitive
17:15.06brlcadjust not "recently" documented
17:15.07``Erikponders trying to develop a quip regarding brlcad's ars... decides not to
17:15.50brlcadit's one of those goodies in the rel 4 docs that should be posted up on the set
17:16.24``Erikrt_bot_tess really does look like the best example :/
17:16.40``Erikdamn that daytona for being smarter than all of us :/
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17:23.44CIA-38BRL-CAD: 0396.234.232.166 07http://brlcad.org * r2078 10/wiki/Talk:Main_Page: Add note about geometric primitives categorization
17:25.21CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2079 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* dsp */
17:33.32CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Starseeker 07http://brlcad.org * r2080 10/wiki/Talk:Main_Page: note there are still a couple "work in progress" primitives uncategorized
17:34.55starseekerhunts lunch
17:40.39``Erik<-- did spaghetti noodles and egg with apple sauce O.o
17:41.26brlcadyou put apple sauce on spaghetti?  nasty.
17:41.53brlcadfreak
17:45.08``Erikheh
17:45.22``Erikit's not like italian spaghetti, it's very german :D eggs fried with butter, then egg scrambled into them, covered with apple sauce...
17:45.25``Erikit's good
17:45.54``Eriker, spaghetti noodles fried with butter
17:46.17``Erikwhen ya eat it, you cut it and scoop witht eh fork instead of swirling
17:46.45``Erikyou put shrimp or white fish in lemon juice? freak.
17:48.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2081 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* ebm */
17:48.21brlcaddo you salt the apple sauce?
17:48.44brlcadbecause that just sounds nasty if it's sweet
17:48.57brlcadseafood in lemon juice is salted :)
17:50.47``Erik<PROTECTED>
17:51.03``Erikthe apple suace is there to add contrast, as a topping
17:51.22CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2082 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* vol */
17:51.54CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2083 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* part */
17:53.34CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2084 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* Other */
17:53.54``Erik(and quite a bit of german cuisine is "ew gross" until you try it)
17:55.42CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2085 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* ebm */
18:08.06CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2086 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* bot */
18:41.19brlcadwould rather code his way into the new year but is going to get sucked into festivities
18:45.36CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37094 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/part/part.c: mas quellage. usual suspects.
19:05.01``Erikheh
20:00.29CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2087 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* bot */
20:05.58CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2088 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* rpp */
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21:18.04starseeker./.libs/librt.so: undefined reference to `RT_CK_HITP'
21:18.06starseekerhrm
21:18.52starseekergreps...
21:27.55starseekerah, sketch.c
21:28.28starseekeris RT_CK_HITP something someone forgot to check in or does that need to go bybye?
21:54.41CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2089 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* box */
22:01.12starseekerooo
22:01.23starseekerdiscovers http://common-lisp.net/~loliveira/ediware/ and updates his lisp updating script
22:01.27CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2090 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* extrude */
22:05.22CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2091 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* grip */
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22:09.18CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2092 10/wiki/Talk:Main_Page: /* BRL-CAD Primitives */
22:10.42CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2093 10/wiki/Talk:Main_Page: /* BRL-CAD Primitives */
22:12.49Nohlaholas
22:13.14Nohlacongratulations for the summer of code!!!
22:13.53Nohlabrlcad: this summer seems to be warmer
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22:19.34CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2094 10/wiki/Talk:BRL-CAD_Primitives: New page: Other sources for information: * http://brlcad.org/wiki/A_Survey_of_Implicit_Constraints_in_Primitives * http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/geometric_primitives.txt * scattered through all brl-c...
22:22.33CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2095 10/wiki/Talk:BRL-CAD_Primitives:
22:23.17CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2096 10/wiki/Talk:BRL-CAD_Primitives:
22:28.54CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2097 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* Other solids */ add 2d derived category
22:29.55``Erikheh, (incl edi)
22:31.33CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2098 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* dsp */
22:31.46starseekerooo, cl-base64, uffi and a few others here:  http://www.b9.com/blog/index.html
22:32.29``Erikuffi vs cffi keeps confusing me :/
22:32.54``ErikI'm under the impression that for a ne wproject, cffi is a better approach... but I'm not sure
22:33.10``Erikand I wanna do a lisp hook over say, libtie/adrt
22:34.03``Erikhow dead is dead, which is the front runner, etc
22:35.10Nohlastarseeker: hi
22:35.10starseekerNohla: howdy :-)
22:35.10starseeker``Erik: yeah, I think uffi is the way to go
22:35.10starseekerer cffi
22:35.10starseekerNOT uffi
22:35.22starseekeruffi is still needed by some libraries that haven't been updated in a while
22:35.38``Eriksee? see? thus the confusion
22:35.42starseekerthinks linedit may be tha main culprit...
22:35.44Nohlastarseeker: a lot of time has passed since the last time :P
22:35.51starseekerNohla: last time?
22:36.17Nohlawe see each other :)+
22:36.45Nohlai've bought the projector today :)
22:37.03Nohlaand...
22:37.10Nohlait's my birthday
22:37.19starseekerah congratulations!
22:37.26``Erikhappy bday, nohla!
22:37.40CIA-38BRL-CAD: 03Ssd 07http://brlcad.org * r2099 10/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: /* ebm */
22:38.21Nohlastarseeker: the second tutorial is done :)
22:38.36starseekerNohla: excellent!!
22:39.01``Erikdo you have people without any english knowlege trying your tutorials as a test case?
22:39.05Nohlabut "make" was difficult to run because the battery is going to wave hands with God
22:39.32``Erik(are there people without english knowlege down there?)
22:41.32Nohlathe next sunday will be a party at home
22:42.18starseekerNohla: you can run "make" just in the directory doc/docbook/
22:42.26Nohlahope that day, the student who asked for this tutorials appear
22:43.00Nohlastarseeker: I'm not with my notebook right now
22:43.42starseekerNohla: ah. k, no problem :)
22:43.45starseekerjust so you know
22:44.18Nohla``Erik: 3 people read the 1st tutorial
22:44.40Nohlayou convince me and I'll install brlcad this weekend :P
22:46.21Nohlaand promised the third for this weekend too...
22:46.43Nohlammm... I'll do my best
22:46.55``Erikis gonna go deaf fromt he purring O.o
22:47.01Nohlaalcohol is not the best friend of translating
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22:47.27``Erikperhaps not, but it makes the code flow :D
22:47.47``Erikif I werent' covered in cats, I'd go get a drink in response
22:48.52Nohla``Erik: what kind of cats? XD
22:49.29``Erikdomestic, a pair, from the same litter, from the local 'rescue' association
22:49.43``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/~erik/20091025/
22:51.50Nohlamine came from a similar place :)
22:53.00``Erik<-- hopes his cats are happy, thinks they're better off than being in the wild or in a cage
22:54.28Nohlahi's something in his skin, needs vitamin
22:55.04``Erikah, the food doesn't provide?
22:55.05Nohla"Te hacen falta vitaminas... vitaminas" (National Rock from down here)
22:55.55Nohlaseems needs more
22:55.56``Erikneeds to go to the store and get more food in the next week or two :/
22:57.35Nohlaguys, good night. I'll take a nap :)
22:58.06``Erikhasta manana
22:58.08Nohlayears do not go alone
22:58.16``Erikhappy new years :)
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22:58.51Nohlafor me and for this decade
22:59.42Nohlastarseeker: we should talk more, as the very beginning
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23:13.09csanyipalHi,
23:13.22csanyipaljust to say: Happy new year!! :D
23:13.59``Erikhappy new years, csanyipal :)
23:14.06csanyipal:)
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23:43.58starseekerNohla: you are doing well :-)
23:44.18starseekerjust need to get you committing ;-)